>>57824861
It's been mentioned before that LIVII and Taldeer aren't that unusual in this universe (Not common, yes. But not unusual. More people are concerned about cross-rank fraternization). The fact that they conceived a child (which in all the natural eldar-human couplings throughout history has never happened) is.

It's been strongly implied that the reason those two out of all the human-eldar couplings in the galaxy had what may be the potential test-run for the Impossible Child was arranged by Isha as a practical joke on Eldrad for marrying her off on the spur of the moment. That, and she knows Eldrad will literally do anything to keep family safe, so the child is in good hands.

I remember there was a short story from early on in the threads about a Harlequin troupe visiting some nowhere Imperial town and the men of the town get all excited to see some 3.14pie elf babes. Then it turns out it's an all-men Harlequin troupe, and the men feel distinctly uncomfortable as the women of the town eat up the handsome elf dudes. Some of the women don't come back to the town the next day, and it's initially written like a fair folk abduction, until it turns out they just followed the troupe as groupies.

>>57826510
>>57828033
It could be that as Super Skitarii© only the largest Forge Worlds have Iron Hands stationed there, and they just send them out to the smaller ones who have just normal Skitarii as needed.

Orioc definitely got folded into Mars. Though I agree that keeping an honor guard there is something they would do. The AdMech there may retain some of the old customs, but like most of Old Earth's culture it's been obliterated by 10k years of mixing. It's probably where Raskian stays whenever he has to be bothered to set foot on Old Earth.

I also agree that Iron Hands and AdMech are perfect way to have intrafaith conflicts without it spilling over into the whole setting.

>>57818677
Wasn't it Magnus who cleaned up whatever was messing around in the Himalayas?

A question about Inquisitor Hand are we gonna save his life. Because is not gonna change the AU.

>>57828216
Magnus went and studied in what we’ll call Xanadu, returned and went into the service of the Warlord, then they later went back there together and brokered some kind of bargain with whatever resides there. It could be an ancient ant decrepit Tiberius passing on some of the psychic lessons of the Iron Minds from before their fall, it could be Old Earth’s Golden Man, senile and mad but rich with ancient power, it could be the great Shaman, immortal sage of one thousand souls and fifty thousand years. Whatever it was, it was gone when the astronomicon was built over its lair.

>>57828526
It looks like a story that could be reworked into this AU with an ambiguous death at the end.

>>57829483
In the comic Hand give Stern a vote of confidence in place of go all "Kill the witch". Here he disapear in the middle of combat against the big bad and nobody know were he is. Stern is always looking for clues about him. A little to classic?

>tfw no country girl Exodite GF
Why must I suffer?

>>57830237
Because is fun.

>>57830254
I just wanna cuddle and hold hands with her... maybe tickle her ears every now and then...

>>57830354
Ha..haa...haa..hee.hhe...coff.coff.argh ..ha..ja.ha.snort.

>>57830380
Plz no bulli... life is pain enough...

>>57829642
One of Inquisitor Hand's bad habits could be that he lives off the grid.

Most Inquisitors send a report at the end of every mission, usually alongside a request form for new personnel and stuff.

Inquisitor Hand operates on a different manner. He sends reports back every 10 years in one big heap alongside a request for a sack of Thrones and he'll buy his own shit thank you very much.

He doesn't have a ship and he typically has a very small retinue and they travel under different names even when they don't have to.

He could be dead. He really could. Or he could be off the grid and nobody will know for years at least.

Also it doesn't help tracking him that he pays no attention to ordo jurisdiction. He is Malleus officially, but he doesn't let that stop him goimg on Vampire hunts.

He was part of Sturn's "is this mad bitch Chaos?" investigation when she was returned to the Imperium by the Harlequins. His own association with the Harlequins starts and ends at "got drunk in the Dark Carnival and woke up on another planet in another sector hugging a traffic cone".

He has accompanied the Hunters on at least one occasion because Bjorn remembers him. Hand won't discuss the Wild Hunts.

Are the Marines Malevolent on Fyodor's Monodominant side?

>>57830354
>>57830401
I will give you pain my boy...

Her name is Alvea, and a eldar suitor will see pain in her movement, the scars in her soul. But you are blind and only can see that beautiful smile, those deep eyes and the grace of her dance. In other life she has a family, a farm, a sky full of potential. Now she has the Securitas, and a story that she won´t retale. You meet her in a dance, her sisters and she taking away regrets to make place to new ones. She is alone looking to distant stars, and you can only think in making her smile at least for this night. Tomorrow she will go, maybe you sill see her again, maybe you will go after her, anf maybe.., maybe in this Imperium full of noble ideals. Surrounded of dark. This fairy story will have a good end....

>>57830900
So you're saying there's a chance?

>>57830938
I am not that upstart and scared little boy know as Tzeentch. I am beyond that... But i can say this thing. I am a sucker for good endings... So what are you waiting to write the next chaper?

>>57830237
>>57830254
>>57830354
>>57830380
>>57830401
>>57830900
>>57830938
See this kind of shit right here is why Tarellian women are the best

>>57830635
On a more serious note, I would say no, just for several reasons.
1) Marines Malevolent participated in 4th War for Armageddon, which only happened less than a century ago. Fyodor's Coup happened at least more than one century ago based on the fact that the "young" Inquisitors Valeria and Darkhammer were a part of it.
2) It makes it too easy to paint the world in shades of black and white. The world doesn't always shake out so that the dickish people reveal "Ha! I was secretly evil all along!" Sometimes the assholes are on your own team.

>>57796098 #
>As in, yes technically a human could do that, but the average human would have to train their entire life to do it and more than likely only be able to do it once or twice in their prime like an Olympic athlete rather than regularly.
With regard to the bench press record thing, doing 250% of the world record as a normal rep is similar to doing 350+% of the world record for a single rep, because you don't do your 5 rep max as a daily lift.

And the record wasn't set by an Olympic athlete in peak condition, it was set by a dedicated lifter on every performance enhancer their system could handle.

So it's miles beyond what an unaugmented human can accomplish, which is fine, but in Deathwatch, a naked starting character, but still fully fledged, Marine can lift 1350 kg. If that's a dead lift, he's actually weaker than Cap (as a balanced lifter can generally dead lift around 60% more than they can bench) but if it's an overhead press, he's about 20% stronger than Cap because a balanced lifter can generally bench press about 40% more than he can overhead press.

So if you use Cap as a baseline for SOBs, you probably need to pick some of the weaker iterations of the character to keep from horning in on Marine territory.

>>57831098
Hey. If they are your type. Go on. You have my blessings. Make me feel proud of you for going to were no one has gone before. Long live and prosperity.

>>57831112
This is probably a good point if we want to keep them between normal human and Space Marine.

Once again Nobledark Imperium faces its greatest foe: Math.

>>57831098
>Tarellian Women
Please elaborate. I am but a humble Guardsman.

>>57831966
>Tarellian
lizard men apparently

>>57831966
>>57832014
Basically the lizarmen from fantasy

>>57832166
Mostly. The Tarellians in Nobledark aren't biological robots, reproduce normally (i.e., like lizards), have a bit more influence from North American Native American cultures (Commanche, Iroquois, Puebloan, Mound Builder) than Mesoamerican ones, except for some of the colonies like Tikal which are shoutouts to the Lizardmen from Fantasy.

>>57831966
Lizardmen with a subspecies of primitive matriarchal amazon warrior lizard-ladies.

>>57826510
>>57828216
That goes to the point I made last thread in that now the Iron Hands are really only Iron Hands in name. Given this description, they're fully a part of the AdMech forces whereas in canon they have some independence and do Space Marine things. If we want to keep some canon flavor we should at least preserve some of their independence, and it honestly would be more compelling. The Iron Hands and the successors had their Primarch for the longest by far (Ferrus only died in M40), and it'd be a good character arc for him to go from "don't show up to the Battle of Terra in favor of protecting forge worlds" level of zealous to being more open minded and willing to flip the Fabricator General the bird every so often by the end of his life ("I was crushing the horrors of the galaxy for millennia before you were even an Enginseer, whelp.")

>>57831112
>>57831440
This is why I wrote this post >>57818855 here. Long story short: the Cap comparison makes no sense since he fluctuates wildly in his depictions and because canon in comic books is an even bigger joke than Warhammer. The Spartan comparison is much more apt (Master Chief flips 3 ton warthog in armor, SM does it unarmored). Sororitas feats in this AU in power armor may be weaker than Spartans in armor since Mjolnir gives buffs but SoB power armor doesn't (no Black Carapace).

>>57832544
>it'd be a good character arc for him to go from "don't show up to the Battle of Terra in favor of protecting forge worlds" level of zealous to being more open minded and willing to flip the Fabricator General the bird every so often by the end of his life ("I was crushing the horrors of the galaxy for millennia before you were even an Enginseer, whelp.")
I think we agree on the character arc you sketch out, and the way the Gorgon's successors and the Legions' descendants carry on his legacy, but I would argue that he never reaches a point of prioritizing the people of the Imperium over the Mechanicus. Mechanicus assets are just fundamentally more important than less technological and more numerous resources of at the Imperium's disposal, and that would remain a core tenet of the Legion's outlook. The key thing that differentiates the Legion from common Skitarii is that they maintain the same fanaticism for the Mechanicus as an institution as Manus, but like him they also totally distain the Fabricator General's spiritual authority, and see the Olympus Mons brotherhood as an equal to their order in seniority and holyness. They recognize Mars because they have overall very similar interpretations of the Omnissiah, hailing from the same region in the galactic sense, but will do as they please with little regard for Olympus Mons, so Olympus Mons is lucky they get along.

>>57828216
As part of this I'd argue that while the Antarctic brotherhood is in almost perfect agreement with Mars, they still insist on the distinction, Mars has to go through Orioc to command the Iron Hands, and its the Chapter Master of the Chrome Centurions (or something) of Orioc that can convene the Legion, not a cleric of Mars. Some would say that its a distinction without a difference because the bulk of the Iron Hands is so closely aligned with Mars and tied into the Skitarii command structure they would never be at odds.

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>>57832544
>>57833106
There was a suggestion that Manus tried to justifiy the fact that he and Fulgrim prioritized saving Forge Worlds and Holy Mars over other assets by saying he figured the other primarchs had that under control but no one was paying attention to poor Mars. If the Imperium won the war it was clear there was going to have to be a lot of rebuilding of infrastructure, and who was going to have to do the bulk of the work? Oh wait, that's right, Mars and the Mechanicum. If the Imperium was completely lost then the battle was clearly hopeless in the first place and if "just" Earth was burned then the most part of the Imperium (i.e., Mars) was preserved. To any outside observer it was clear there were more emotional reasons behind his decisions, but he'd never admit that.

Ferrus Manus sounds like the equivalent of a hardcore Catholic crusader king who loves God, respects the pope, but isn't going to just blindly do whatever the pope says.

It definitely makes sense that Ferrus would eventually reach the point where he wouldn't blindly follow AdMech orders, especially as he gets older and Fabricator-Generals keep getting replaced, and I like the character arc, but we definitely need to show that, not tell it. Right now all of Ferrus' fluff is him being the AdMech's lab dog, and virtually all of it is from the Great Crusade. The only part we don't have is him playing the superego to Vulkan's heartfelt id in the Imperial Court.

At the same time, I agree with >>57833106
that Ferrus isn't going to start being friends with everyone. Ferrus was definitely one of the jerkier primarchs, along with Mortarion and Curze. So far his only humanizing feature has been his friendship with Fulgrim.

>>57832544
Agree with logic behind Spartan comparison, more consistent with what has been suggested.

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>>57832536
I get that the format is cancer but...

Scene: Three female Tarellian hunter-pack soldiers are resting against a wall, watching a group of Imperial Guard doing exercises. Translated from Hynerian (the common Tarellian trade language).

Tarellian 1: You know, I’ve been around humans for three months now, and I still don’t get it.

Tarellian 2: What?

Tarellian 1: How do the females find their males attractive? I mean, they all look the same. They don’t have any frills or dewlaps, and the males only have those two wattles. I mean, I get that personality is a factor, but I have a hard time believing that a species could exist for millions of years without any kind of sexual attraction. Same thing with the eldar.

*Other Tarellians are silent for a moment*

Tarellian 2: Oh…

Tarellian 3: *laughing lizard lady.gif*

Tarellian 1: What? What am I missing? Are they all clones or something?

Tarellian 2: I guess somebody never learned the secrets of life.

Tarellian 3: *continues laughing*

Tarellian 1: I don’t get it? Are their males not here? Because all I see is the two variants, the ones with the wattles and the ones without.

Tarellian 3 (still giggling): Don’t you get it? Those are the females you dope.

Tarellian 2: The humans don’t feed their young mashed-up grubs like we do. The females produce this nutrient-filled sweat that they feed to their infants. Same with the eldar.

Tarellian 1: You’re shitting me.

Tarellian 2: No lie. Check a biology codex or a medical book the next time you see one. *pauses for a moment* Why were you even thinking about human “males” anyway? Unless…you were checking them out.

Tarellian 1 (ruffles frill): I was not!

Tarellian 3: Aren’t you from Mazon? I guess it’s true what they say. Once a Mazon, always from Mazon.

Tarellian 1 (expands frills to full size): Okay that stereotype shit stops right here. You want to fight then let’s go.

Bump because personal incompetence at time management means no actual contribution.

>>57834161
>>57832536
>Swole Lizard Amazons who want to make Snu-snu with human men
... continue...

>>57833793
If the Antarctic Brotherhood swore loyalty to the Fabricator General at the time but not the institution then the moment they died the Antarctican would have seen themselves as independent again.

Under normal circumstances this wouldn't have made any difference as they would have been in for so long distinction would have dissolved. Except for the Gorgon.

As a Primarch and an ordained member of the Antarcticans he would have kept the traditions and cultural distinctiveness alive. He would also be leader by seniority.

I've been bouncing this around in my head for a few days, and I kind of what input.

What would you call a 40k setting where the Empire is slowly recovering from the End Times? As in every coming storm crashed upon humanity and the Imperium, but they pulled through and now are going through the process of rebuilding and reforming after coming inches from the brink?

Examples: The Tyranids have mostly starved to death aside from a few pockets, Slaanesh got murdered so hard by Ynnead that all of Chaos became somewhat manageable, the Orks have slowly been evicted from major galactic clusters, and the Emperor is once again conscious and able to give direct orders, though he still very much needs near-constant life support and almost never leaves Terra anymore.

Would that be Nobledark? Things are still shitty in this hypothetical setting, but there's a general sense of hope instead of this constant anxiety that humanity's going to either get eaten or gangraped forever in the Warp.

>>57836329
God..is not ending to the depravity?.

>>57839026
That depends...if the emperor is lobotimized,If Guilliman has grow as a good (hu)man. If he has consolidated his power. And if he really really is triying to form some class of gobernment for the people of the galaxy. To many If

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>>57839079

>>57839026
One of the things that make me like this AU is that Oscar is not the Emprah. For all his inhuman intelligence and foresighn, the flashlight is not diferent from every petty tirant in our world. He thinks that he has a divine mandate to guide humanity and those who think otherwise are better in a tomb. He isn´t eve a succeful tirant. In nobledark he never(maibe) was born. And things turn better. Oscar maibe isn´t as powerful but he was (mostly)human doring his rise to power. People follow his example and try to be better. So one of the things that will change vanilla to nobledark is the emprah getting out of the problems of humanity.

>>57839143
The emperor is a monster not diferent of the chaos gods. So he walking again can turn vanilla to nobledark?. Maibe for humans in some thousands of years when everyone else is dead, and he have frer reign to prepare humanity 2.0.

>>57834161
Tarellians don't have anything that we want and we have nothing that they want. If any attraction was to happen it would be furries.

>>57837592
There are still two things that have to be addressed if there is to be any independence on Ferrus or Orioc's part.

First, when talking about how the various Crusade-era figures viewed Old Earth, Ferrus was said to see Orioc as no different than Mars and the Mechanicum and as Mars was already perfect and more importantly drowning in data he felt like he didn't have much to add.

Second, if Ferrus or Orioc step too far out of line the Fabricator General, especially if they are one of the more humorless and petty types, is going to declare them hereteks.

I could easily see Orioc reversing course and emphasizing their distinctness in later years, especially if they regret letting most of their distinct culture being eroded by Mars, but in a respectful manner and never in a way that could be construed as rejecting the Martian Creed.

>>57830635
Only if he is fighting someone they have a grudge against.

And only if they think nobody will notice.

>>57840279
Orioc and Mars are to the Gorgon no different in their relative venerability and holieness, and their matching need to carry the ‘Mechanicus’ burden’. They are no different in their responsibility and privledge over other forges, and their presiding orders no different in the eyes of the Omnissiah. He recognizes the holiness of the lands of Mars and the things that lie beneath them as surpassing that of Earth. He even reognizes the official primacy of the Martian Mechanicus, but having been witness to Olympus Mons’ seizing of power after his own ascension he sees that specific brotherhood as one of many that could have led, and all junior to Orioc.

In essence, the Fabricator General is the newly elected Pope, trying very hard to explain to a neigh-immortal crusader king why the Vatican itself is more important than the literal Christian empire the crudader king has built out from Jerusalem. Later on, towards the end of his life, high level clerics might have tried to reign him in, even usurp his freedom with claims that as the Gorgon’s natural brain decayed his augmentations did too much of his thinking for him. Attempts to excommunicate the Gorgon would have even odds of the Gorgon unilaterally excommunicating the Fabricator General right back, and getting the administration to back him up if he’s feeling really vindictive.

>>57842278
Also, going by the contest under Olympus Mons Ferrus Manus has a solid appreciation of the techniques and technologies preserved and advanced by orders outside the Mechanicus proper. Between the Astartes components he would incorporate into his troops’ biological parts after the augments’ worth was proven and his reaction to rudimentary Neutronium smithing that went into forgebreaker his amicability to new and unorthodox technology is apparent, and probably one of the bigger sticking points between the Iron Hands and mars at large.

Going back to his ultimatum to Savlar to try to force it into line with mars, he probably really did want them to join the fold, but his intonations that he would smash it if Mars couldn’t have it was all bluster. He wanted access to their Neutronium, preferably on his terms, but after the Imperium stepped in and decided the issue the Gorgon would likely have sent the same forces he had ready to conquer Savlar and the same captain he trusted to secure the Neutronium out with a mission to win the Savlar Brotherhoods’ favor and patronage as an independent chapter, with his blessing despite being labeled heretek.

>>57843158
Savlar would have been in the lifetime of the Crusade Era Fabricator General. If Gorgon believed he was a legitimate head of the Medhanicus then he sould have been obedient to him.

What would be good names for Mechanicus sects?

>>57843158
>>57843807
I can see Ferrus differing from the Fabricator-General (or at least some of them, the position has been occupied by at least three different people in the history of the Imperium, possibly more) in his opinions on biological components and the utility of certain technologies (Ferrus seems to have highly valued efficiency, especially since it was his job to do things as efficiently as possible rather than maintain orthodoxy like the Fab-General. Though it's likely he would have kept such opinions to himself or done things covertly because of the importance of Mars.

Actually throwing his weight around would have come later when he starts noticing the new Fabricator-Generals are often little better than unexperienced engineseers more focused on dogma than results.

>>57842278
>In essence, the Fabricator General is the newly elected Pope, trying very hard to explain to a nigh-immortal crusader king why the Vatican itself is more important than the literal Christian empire the crudader king has built out from Jerusalem.
This. Though in this case the Mecha-Pope has a little bit more leverage.

The description of the possible conflict right here is a good example of what the previous anon said about having religious conflicts in this universe that don't spiral out of control and saturate everything else. Even though any argument is at its core an AdMech issue, it is very much everyone else's problem because the Imperium relies on the AdMech for most of its infrastructure.

One possible interpretation of Ferrus and the Iron Hands that might allow for more Space Marine stuff is "Yes, I have to listen when Mars says things. But that doesn't mean I have to wait around for them to micromanage me and tell me everything to do". Mars generally allows this because that's the whole point of the Iron Hands in their eyes, they are given autonomy because they are trusted enough to know what is best for the Mechanicus as a whole.

>>57843807
Nothing above is disobedient, Ferrus was all set to do the deed (with as little damage to the Neutronium foundry as possible) until forces above both him and the Fabricator General stepped in and changed the parameters of the situation. Ferrus’s subsequent aproval of the yet unnamed chapter’s course of action was something he could pass off as adapting to the state of affairs imposed by the Imperial government, or just as easily deny his involvement in, and in his mind it would lie somewhere between a purely pragmatic move devoid of politics, and something of a religious transgression against the Fabricator General partly canceled out by the obvious and incontrovertible holiness of Neutronium’s manufacture.

Also, I can see Ferrus viewing it as obvious that chapters of the Iron Hands still answer to him even if they’re considered heretek by Mars, and thinking that this in no way impunes his own orthodox. This is simply because being considered apostate by the faith doesn’t exempt them from the command structure, and even in tech-heresy they are his force to command and direct, by law of the Imperium (as he interprets it). This doesn’t work the other way though, and Manus and his chapter masters will always be quick to remind the Astra Militarum and Administratum that they view their orders as suggestions at best, second to the Mechanicus and their (long dead) primarch.

On the previous threads subject of Inquisitor Silas Hand. He was apprenticed to Lord Inquisitor Enoch.

Enoch was also and Interrogator-Chaplain of the Dark Angels.

As with the differing nature of The Fallen Interrogator-Chaplains aren't a thing anymore I'm putting it that Enoch was an Inquisitorial overseer to one of the Angels of Wrath chapter. A chapter that was at one point almost exterminated by Vandire.

Given the dates involved and the precedence of eldar in the Inquisition I put forth that Enoch was there during Vandire's purge of his chapter, he and his surviving space marines leapt into the arms of Thor and that Hand is an eldar Inquisitor who got some early seriously fucking intense on the job training as one of the people responsible for finding trouble makers in the ranks of Thor's rebellion.

No Hand is not his born name. It's just what he started calling himself once he started to hand around the humans because it was less painful than listening to them mangle the pronunciation of his actual name (Lossethtôr-Pe-lam-Mindondir). It would also be why he has been invited on the Hunt, humans don't typically. Also his "unorthodox" behavior is a result of thinking of his job in terms of The Hunt.

>>57845451
He is like 7000?? This is much even for and Eldar´. The average with rejuv is around 4000-5000.

>>57845800
Sorry.my bad.AoA was in 36. So yeah is posible

>>57845451
So...he is something like a cranky old man full of weird wisdom, the yoda/ben to Ster/Anakin?-luke?

>>57845800
Vandire's reign starts at some point in M36. He rules well for 200 years.

Then he rules bad for a few decades at least before shit hits boiling point before. That's when Old Enoch and his young Apprentice Hand join Thor's rebellion.

So lets say Hand was born in Early M36 and became an Inquisitor in mid M36 and stayed an Inquisitor for the entirety of that time.

That would put him in the "reaching the end of the road" territory as far as eldar lifespans go as of 999M41.

Now take into consideration time dilation due to warp travel. He isn't quite at the end of the road yet. Due to eldar not really aging until right before death he has maybe a few hundred years tops left baring major illness or injury.

Don't get me wrong. He's old, really old. Statistically speaking eldar usually have accidents by this point, especially in his line of work.

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>>57845800
He could always be a pre-M41 figure. We don't have a lot of those. We have no clue how old Stern is and for all we know she's been around for a few centuries, especially since psykers live longer than average (even disregarding what the hell Stern is).

Didn't Stern escape into the Webway at some point in canon? That would add points to the "Eldar" explanation.

>>57845451
We do have the Chapter Watchers (or Chapter Watchmen, if we want to avoid confusion with the Watchers in the Dark). Kind of like normal Chaplains but whose job it is to be extra paranoid for treason.

The position could be named after how the Watchers saved the loyalists bacon during the War of the Beast. They might have closer ties to the Watchers than many chapter members, since the Watchers see a lot more than people think and they are typically capable of pointing out who the traitors are.

>>57845451
That can add another twist. After Stern is taken to Commorragh the Inquisiton cut loses and forget her.
Except Hand, he use his contacts whit the Pariah and Saint-Haim(Who go for fun and giggles) to organice a full raid, rescuing her and make the two more or less inseparable.
The rest of the Inquisition are not happy. They just lost one of the precious secret gates to the DE holdings for Stern. A being that nobody is sure what can do.
At the end the Imperium win a new weapon, but the damage is done and her position is now similar to Celestine.

>>57846670
This would probably have to be in the wake of the Dark Wedding, since that is how the Imperium got their ins into Commorragh in the first place. Commorragh is most certainly not easy to break into. If it was someone would have wiped out the Dark Eldar a long time ago.

One would think Vect would have some kind of contingency plan to cordon off the xenos quarters in Lower Commorragh though. A lot of raiders and pirates come through there and neither group is really known for their loyalty or ability to keep others' secrets.

Don't know what is meant by
>her position is now similar to Celestine.
though.

>>57847883
Stern with 1000y+ of experience. Fuck, that is scary. Hmm. maibe it was Cegorath? extorsioning for some future favors?

Like in canon some Inquisitors are not sure of the nature of Lady Celestine and probably will put and eye in her. It give a reason to have someone after her head.

Bump.

Added Bloodtide (with fewer Grey Knights and the anticlimax Bloodthirster, since the other version was said to be out of character), Sevatar (as a "this is just a draft" in Notes), Marines Malevolent (in notes), Tiberius (with changed names), bits to Celestine, and some of the other recent stuff in the threads to 1d4chan.

Didn't put any Sisters of Battle or Ephrael Stern up yet because I can't make heads or tails of it and figure out what's been agreed upon and what hasn't. Same to a lesser degree Othonos.

Also please feel free to mention things that should go on 14chan but have slipped through the cracks. While digging through the archives I found another codex entry that everyone seemed to like that never made it on 1d4chan (Njal Stormcaller). I can only keep up with so much and would hate to have things go missing.

>>57847883
Would not have been taking place in Commorragh due to Vect's no psykery law.

It has been mentioned that it's a bunch of young punks in the webway equivalent of a run down cabin in the woods.

>>57853112
You are the hero this project needs.

>>57831098
The Marines Malevolent should be a young chapter, founded maybe in M38 or M39, because the Imperium doesn't let you fuck up very many times before you get the hammer (which in this case means being punted out to the boonies for permanent Penitent Crusade). Their recalling to regular duty and subsequent civilian shelling incident during the 4th War for Armageddon should be either their first (or maybe second at most) and last shot at redemption, and as of M41.999 they're on permanent PC status a la Night Lords.

Also, it is rather amusing that the first chapter master of the MMs was enough of an edgelord to come up with that name. Or, since the MMs were formed from the problem children of the Iron Warriors and their successors, it could be that the future MM chapter master was called a "malevolent bastard" by his peers and he took the label as the chapter name as a "fuck you" to his critics, if we want a more serious spin on things.

>>57830635

Cachadrodons vs Marines Malevolents.

SPESS! Assholes vs. SPESS! Nazis. Sounds fun.

>>57854613
In the comic she dosn´t awake her powers after the scape of commorragh so it is posible.

>>57854760
They've been on Penitent Crusade almost since their founding it seems. Armageddon they might have been called in on as an impromptu third chance or so because things had officially gotten bad enough that the Imperium called in everyone, permanent Penitent Crusade chapters be damned, and subsequently regretted it.

I like some of the reasoning for why the chapter would call themselves "Marines Malevolent" with a straight face.

>>57858360
"Because sound Badass". Say the Space Marine. The menber of the administratum just take a bag of M&M and say "Ok..Hmm..Do you whant one?"...
Later they find the body of the adep with the throat full of M&Ms...
Nobody like smartasses.

>>57855956
I thought the Red Scorpions were the SPESS! Nazis. And in this timeline the Olamic Quietude.

>>57858321
How did she escape in canon? Because here it seems like the most likely way for her to escape is to put her fist through their face after she gets supercharged or whatever happened.

>>57854613
It also could have been the Crones on Altansar if we want to keep the Chaos angle. It depends on who we think works better or needs more screentime. Although with the DEldar there wouldn't be a kneejerk fear of corruption.

>>57859549
Truly they were the realest of Slim Shadys. [Spoiler]Would they please stand up[/spoiler]

>>57848156
"Commissar, look at what i just write"."Wtf?.Die. Degenerated scum".

Stern was looking to the comatose form of Calgar. During a brief moment, sadness overcome her stone-cold visage. Titus look at the legendary sister with great respect and talk. "He talk fondly of you ma'am. He told us that some of his greates achivements were with you". She look to the Captain, a litte smile in her lips. "And. What exactly tell you?". Titus think for a brief moment. "Hmm. Of the campaign against Droshak Muchkiller, the siege of Duranka or my favorite the duels in the temple of the Bloodmarked". Stern look at Calgar with a litte of..disappointment. and in a whisper say "tsk. He dons´t toll the better". Titus look at Mira and then asking like a little kid. "Better?". A weird look come to the eyes of the sister. Like a cat preparing to eat a mouse. "Oh. Yes. He.He.He..There was this time that we were gifted this shipment of Vlka Fenryka ale, and well, we beging to drink and say..i don´t remenber exactly what. And one thing lead to another, and another and.." Stern begin to count but soon she was without enough fingers. Titus look weirder out to Mira who has this distant and wishful look in her eyes. Then ask whit some regret "What others things?" The old woman look puzzled for a brief moment and looking to Mira say "He is serius. Isn`t he?". The guardswoman barely can supress a snort."ma'am?". Smilling she look to the Ultramrines Captain and say. "Okay, little one, your granny are going to tell you about the Birds and.."

Ok. I´m sorry i need to take this from my head. But now in a more constructive way. One thing about this AU is that neither the SM are asexual murder-machines nor the sisters are chaste sacred warriors. The upper history can pass in this setting. I know that it will be improper. But what i want to say is that we have the oportunity of tale histories beyond SM+Bolter+Orc.

>>57860673
A Harlequin help her scape.

>>57860881
Killing a bunch of DE in melee, whithout armor or powers. Okay the Harlequin help her. But pretty bad ass.

>>57848156
I imagine that they tried to duplicate her or at least her usefulness but never managed.

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>>57860781
I think Cassius has been bugging Titus for warp-resistant foster grandchildren for years now.

Lukas the Trickster's exploits with women are legendary.

Several of the Astartes primarchs had children.

What happened to Graia in this timeline. I know Titus got a battlefield promotion there over Leandros but I don't know if we ever said what happening to the planet. If Mira and her troops needed a new home it implies the world got wrecked.

>>57846670
Rather than it being the Dark Carnival that find Sturn naked and half starved, wandering the depths of the webway it could be a band of The Hunters. Inquisitor Hand is participating in this hunt and that is how Sturn gets brought in for her initial testing by the Inquisition.

Also after a detour by he hunting party at Hand's request they do trace her steps back to the ruins of the torture lab in the minor webway intersection the fallen eldar were using. Were they Chaos or Dark? Who can say, it's not like anyone involved was having a civil conversation and the place caught fire when Sturn did so evidence to distinguish was not abundant.

At that time Sturn would not know what she was or what she was capable of. She would very much have been young, alone, afraid and had just seen and been victim to some seriously fucked shit. Hand would have been the eccentric old grandpa figure she would have clung to especially when she learned that she was being brought before the Inquisition for investigation, possibly Hand kept his status as a senior (though not highly placed) member of that institution from her at the time because he had seen what she could do when pushed and didn't want her to freak out. Especially not at himself, he hasn't lived as long as he has by needlessly lining himself up as a target or by volunteering information.

Inquisition's specialist warp prodders speculate that she's constantly burning "warp fumes" simply by existing in a manner Magnus was speculated to have done. How is she doing this? Fucked if they know, nobody figured out how Magnus was doing it either. It's not a natural state of being for a human or indeed anything else they have on record that's mortal.

After the investigation and sanctioning Hand takes her on as part of his retinue and trains her. He's an eldar, all eldar are slightly psychic. Her psykery is only capable of manifesting in physical buffs anyway and she can out punch everyone up to high end Grey Knights.

>>57864042
Also the Inquisition higher ups might have agreed to it on the basis that if she is going to get possessed there probably isn't much they can do about it at this point and if they were to want someone near when this happens then it should be Hand. Not because Hand would have much more chance of dealing with the situation, he's just really annoying and they wouldn't miss his loss very much.

Under his unorthodox care she did learn to deal with her new abilities but it soon became clear to both of them that she didn't have the temperament for being part of the Inquisition. She also stood out somewhat for being half-navigator and therefore uncommonly tall and pale. Also to anyone with even a very minor active psychic talent she shone out and appeared to have a shroud of witchfire all about her.

Hand and Sturn parted on good terms when Sturn returned to the Securitas, this time as a Sister Militant.

Since then she has taken part in battles across the galaxy, she had killed vampires, deamon princes, chaos eldar, dark eldar, orks of every flavour, Fallen and stranger things. She has been the tip of the spear made up of impassioned PDF solders and veteran Grey Knights and everything in between. The Imperium's only regret is that there is, despite the very best efforts of the Adeptus Biologicus, only one of her.

She is now far from that frightened girl that stumbled out of a burning den of the damned and forsaken. She stands tall and proud, fire burns in her eyes and her manner is forceful and uncompromising. Her life has been hard and she has become hard and although her motives are noble and pure she suffers no fools gladly.

As of 999M41 she travels to the Hadex Anomaly to cleanse the stars around it of the things that have started to crawl from that accursed pit.

>>57863687
It has been commented. That Mira&Co has been transferred to train Macragge? pdf&guard. But one of the real motives. Is the two of them get hooked, and produce warp-resistant children compatible with the Astartes augmentation. Something that Titus dosen´t seems to eager to do.

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>>57864494
Titus is trying to hyper-militarize Ultramar because he has seen classified reports that show the sheer magnitude of the hammer about to drop on them. He is building a new Legion like the ones in the ancient histories, ships, human soldiery and all the rest of it in addition to the Super Soldier assets. Ultramar, or at least Macragge, PDF is not looking too good at the moment. Shit is antiquated, riddled with nepotism and out of shape and to combat this he has conscripted Mira and her Cadian 203rd (remnants) to act as training staff for the locals. Because Cadians are born to war, raised in war, it is the air they breathe and the water they drink like wine and have survived as a people 10,000 years camped out on Hell's doormat and as individuals the whole Graia incident start to finish.

That's the reason.

Definitely that and nothing more.

And he spends a lot of time with Mira as one old soldier to another. And because she is integral to his plans for expanded military reform. That's why. He isn't close to her or anything. He's too old for that sort of thing. He defiantly does not spend every other evening with her discussing recent events and such things because he likes her because that would be inappropriate. Very inappropriate and also his friends tend to die unhappy deaths. He can't have feelings for her because she is still alive. If he did she would die somehow and she isn't dead and he doesn't want her to die.

Cassius isn't helping matters when he comes out with "hilarious" comments like
>I'll perform the ceremony if you want but please just wed and bed her and have done with it
and other such delicate and tactful remarks.

>>57864725
I can´t stop to laught. I don´t exactly why. But it sound..I don´t know. So weird to say something like that in a WH40k setting

>>57860673
W hat should the Red Scorpions be like in this AU?

>>57866152
They're implied to be loyalist Emperor's Children in canon, right?

>>57864494
>>57864725
I think it was said as of 999.M41 the two have gotten to hand-holding. At this rate they'll get married eight years after the tyranids are predicted to hit the Eye of Terror and Ultramar is decades-old 'nid poop.

>>57864042
How are the Disciples of Kurnous viewed by the rest of the Eldar? On the one hand they are highly skilled warriors but on the other they are essentially everything the other Craftworlds hate about Saim-Hann but moreso. They're also a dying breed dedicated to a dead god, which some Eldar might see as being too shackled to the past.

>>57863687
Canon says that Mira and the Cadian 203rd were directed there from another war zone. I don't know if in this timeline the Cadian 203rd were stationed there as a permanent garrison or not, it sounds more likely given that Titus was able to bring them to Ultramar and the Administratum didn't throw a fit.

>>57864457
>>57864042
I hope people don't take this the wrong way, but I for one am very against the idea of Stern being a child abductee who got experimented on or whatever. I already expressed my views on deviating from canon last thread, but also the whole "tragic childhood turns you into special snowflake juggernaut" is already overdone in our AU. I think the canon backstory for Stern works fine: essentially a bog standard SoB (albeit a very badass one, since she was a Sister Superior) who had a normal childhood in the Schola Progenium, and had greatness and incredible power thrust unwillingly upon her in the most traumatic event of her life. It's honestly more relatable to me than another overdone trope about being a superpowered kid subjected to torture in order to inspire sympathy in the reader.

Also, what is this business about Magnus and "warp fumes"? Magnus can just be a freak outlier in terms of psychic power like the Apex Twins, not everything needs a convoluted explanation.

>>57867493
Not that anon, but I agree there is no reason for Stern to be a child. It actually makes more sense for her to be kidnapped if she was an adult combatant because she would be on the battlefield in the first place. The big thing that needs addressing is why Stern ended up the way she did in this timeline, since faith doesn't work the same way as it does for the SoB in canon and Stern's canon power levels are the definition of wonky.

Though I'm not sure about how common "tragic childhood turns you into special snowflake juggernaut" is in this AU. There's a lot of traumatic backstories, but that's because it's Warhammer and traumatic backstories are handed out like candy. There's quite a few among the primarchs and Great Crusade figures, but that's mostly because they grew up on Unification-era Old Earth, which by anyone's standards was a third world hellhole. And even then, you have some like Guilliman, Dorn, and Fulgrim who had pretty good childhood, and Angron and Corax, who had a traumatic everything. The only other examples I can think of is Celestine, who's that way because she's a Joan of Arc expy. Szarekh, who's more just good at politics, and the APEX twins and Tigurius, who are probably the straightest examples.

This is one reason I didn't put anything on Stern up on 1d4chan yet. We can't seem to get anything concrete beyond "something happened, now powerful psyker".

On the subject of convoluted explanations, the more I think about it the more the Crones sound like a better choice for why things happened the way they did. Not just because of Vect's "no psychic shit" rule but because the Crones are big into atrocities for atrocity's sake as demented art projects.

Had this idea for a quote for Kronus if we ever get the planet written up.

Kronus is the Imperium in a microcosm. A complete clusterfuck with enough backlogged paperwork to give even a hardened bureaucrat nightmares, composed of several different cultures and even species that have radically different mindsets and worldviews from one another, which only functions because the people who live there believe in one another and truly want to make it work.
-- Long time bar patron of Kronus’ Dig the Fuck Inn, name unknown.

It summarizes Kronus (and by extension the Imperium) by pointing out how disorganized and heterogenous they are and how the bureaucracy only makes it worse (as in the canon Imperium, though without the "multiple species" bit), but then swings back into nobledark by stressing it doesn't descend into anarchy because people actually believe in each other and doing the right thing.

>>57867493
>Magnus and "warp fumes"
I think it's supposed to be they have no clue how the fuck she's doing it, they have no clue how Magnus worked either, and they're just pulling explanations out of their ass.

Alright what if we drop the in universe speculation on how her abilities work and up her age when they manifest?

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>>57870623
I'd be okay with King Crimson-ing it. All they know is her powers work, they seem to work consistently, their effects can be defined, but no one knows exactly how they work.

It's like the Ansible Twins. The Imperium thinks it's some kind of bio-warp entanglement, but every time they try to replicate it it fails. As another anon said "It's psykery. It's sticking your dick in the warp and hoping for the best. You can account for every variable, replicate every condition and still get a different result."

The only thing we need to make sure of is as people writing this out of universe we need to know how this happened and what she can do and what her limits are for the simple reason of keeping power levels consistent. It doesn't even have to be a detailed explanation, Magnus and the APEX twins don't really have one beyond "I don't know, psykers are weird and inconsistent" might be good enough.

One thing to point out if we do decide to go the route of Navigator parent that Navigator genes are all recessive. Stern would have been completely normal (a nice normal childhood minus the fact that mommy or daddy has three eyes) and no one would have thought it would have affected anything. Navigator + baseline results in baseline, you don't even get reliable psykers out of that mix. Or it could just be she's a latent that didn't get noticed and the Cage not only woke up that ability but supercharged it.

The big issue is how did she survive the cage and end up the way she did. Normal humans getting thrown into some horrible living cage made of your comrades do not turn into daemon-punching machines.

I was looking through the old fluff for some writing, and I noticed we had the Beheading happen in 546.M32, which in this timeline happened during the War of the Beast.

I was thinking this might finally nail down when the War of the Beast happens, since that's about the same year the Siege of Terra happens. However, we might want to move the date back a millenium. Mid-M32 is when the primarchs started dropping dead, and Lorgar would have died before the War of the Beast even happened. Mid-M31 sounds more reasonable, especially since that takes into account the longer Great Crusade (Horus Heresy starts about turn of the millenium M31) and the fact that the Beast is a Crusade-era Ork here. It also avoids important dates of interest happening on the turn of the millenium (12th Black Crusade did, but that was more Malys being dramatic because she knew the importance it had to the mon-keigh).

>>57871205
She survived the cage because the eldar doing it were idiots who didn't know what they were doing and she had navigator genes which are Old One relics and by chance the bizarre nature of the torture activated her almonds.

>>57873149
Did she? I wasn't sure if we were keeping that or not.

Bump for hopefully finishing Lion today.

>>57877750
Sweet.

>>57875606
I'm for keeping it. We need a reason for her to be weirdly powerful and we have precedent with Magnus.

>>57878485
Yeah..but..The galaxy of WH40K is a big place. Really we need the same history?

>>57878485
>>57878595
It's not the exact same. Magnus was Navigator + psyker and the subsequent offspring hitting the genetic lottery in terms of psyker potential. Magnus has never been duplicated, despite the fact that there must have been dozens of Navigator + psyker children on record. Closest anyone came was the APEX twins, which was Isha-blessed human + cultist.

Stern needs some reason for why the Screaming Cage turned her into what she was, especially since the Dark/Crone Eldar who did it were not expecting that and just did it for kicks, the...ahem components of the Screaming Cage couldn't augment her with faith like in canon and it's unlikely they were all psykers, and normal humans do not get supercharged when thrown into a screaming cage made of their still living peers.

Honestly it could be as simple as she's just a latent and the trauma activated her abilities. Manifesting as only physical buffs could be a subconsciously imposed mental block but mean she is more powerful in that one area because she is not the woman who practices ten thousand kicks, but one kick ten thousand times.

>>57878862
It has been commented. That we only need to flick faith to psyker. She is a latent and the cage is full of psykers.

>>57867444
Disciples of Kurnous are viewed with reverence, more so if they aren't present.

People approve of the existence of an unbroken order stretching back to the First Days in principle but don't often want to live it.

>>57864725

So is Titus Guilliman's grand, grand, grand something or what?

Personally, I say yes, mostly for the kicks of it and the REEEEEEEEE of (non-existant) Nepotism by Leandros. That and Titus having a grand hard(er) time to get people NOT to compare him to great-pa.

>>57880551
No. Guilliman seems to be a common name in Ultramar. He is related to the Ultramarines but i don`t remenber who.

>>57880594
I thought it was only a name on the Eastern Fringe because of Guilliman's grandson being sent there for the Imperium Secundus.

>>57881510
Ultramar is on the Eastern Fringe. Heck, along with the Tau and possibly the Tarellians, it is the Eastern Fringe.

>>57880551
On the other hand, it kind of treads hard on Celestine, who is having very similar problems in terms of being compared to their ancestor and getting people to listen to them over in the Segmentum Tempestus.

It's been mentioned what we really need to do is beef up the anti-Titus side of the conflict with more reasonable people. Titus has his own hate club in Leandros and his lot, but a lot of the criticisms his non-Leandros critics are making are mostly valid. The Primaris Initiative is likely to bankrupt Ultramar, people outside Ultramar who don't know how bad the tyranids are see it as a power grab, and even if it's not meant to be a power grab if you have a huge number of chapters filled with young turks who don't necessarily have tempered respect for authority and you can't afford to "pay" (in this case with gear and necessities) they may just decide to march on your own territories and loot them. Most people haven't seen the full might of the tyranids and don't realize it's a choice between two bad decisions.

On top of that, all of the well-known Ultramarines are so far pro-Titus. Cassius, Tigurius, and Ventris are all pro-Titus, and Calgar is in a coma. Sicarius is a possibility but it's been pointed out that's almost too easy and is basically picking on an annoying character from canon. Indeed it's been noted that Sicarius' personality is not one that likes to be in charge. In canon he likes to pick fights and beat on people who the people he likes. Chapter Masters don't get to do that, not without repercussions. He'd like the power but not the responsibility. Technically the fact that he's a captain at all is a deviation from the codex, as champions are not supposed to be captains for this very reason.

Agemman is about the only option left for a Anthony to Titus' Octavian.

>>57881982 (cont.)
Agemman actually could work. Titus technically has seniority over him because Agemman only became captain of the 1st company due to the rest of the 1st company being slain by the Swarmlord. The situation is more complicated than Titus jumping rank for the simple reason that with the death of the 1st company Titus is basically the unofficial successor to Calgar, but Leandros doesn't see it that way because Titus delendo est.

Agemman has also been said in canon to be a bit salty because he's been overshadowed by Sicarius and Cassius. This could kind of be redirected towards Titus, though in this case it's more he knows Titus is not infallible (the two would have probably been comparable and someone needs to put brakes on his crazy train.

>>57873149
>>57875606
>>57878862
>>57879675
So it sounds like we have consensus on the following: Stern was a child of a Navigator + psyker and had a pretty normal, decent childhood (in fact it was probably pretty cushy and privileged if she was considered part of the Navigator clan her parent hailed from). She's a latent psyker, and like canon she gets an education from the Schola and joins the SoB, rising to Sister Superior in record time because she's a badass. Same battle with the DE happens and she's taken to Cormorragh and thrown into the Screaming Cage which awakens her to her full psychic potential.

As for exactly how the Screaming Cage gives her buffs, we've mentioned it could be composed of psykers instead of Sisters, and we do have precedence for the transfer of psychic power from the canon backstory of Big E with the whole shaman ritual and whatnot. So that might have happened on a mini scale here. Also, extreme trauma and overcoming it seems to help in that regard as well, since Mephiston goes from normal BA to unholy rapetrain by getting stuck under rubble and having to overcome the Black Rage.

As for power levels, Mephiston might actually be a pretty good analogue. He's probably one of the deadliest Imperial characters outside the GKs and Custodes, and the fact that Stern is on his level despite much weaker augmentations means her psychic power is crazy high (though still not Magnus level or whatnot).

Titus might be looked down on not because he's a Guilliman but because he isn't anything. He's just Titus. In Ultramar having no last name usually means you are from the plebiest of pleb family. You have no name because your family would never have anything worth being called an inheritance.

Most of the rest of the Ultamarines being from at least minor somebodies or at least families worth having names. To some of the Ultramarine officers for someone like Titus to have come so far is mildly insulting.

>>57882551
cont.


>>57881982
>>57882074
Couple thoughts regarding Titus:

First, I thought we nixed the whole Guilliman lineage thing. It really doesn't add much and needlessly complicates things.

Secondly, what exactly was Titus' position before his current promotion? He can't be 2nd Company Captain since it seems implied that Sicarius has been there for a while and all the other captain positions are filled by canon characters. It's possible to take some inspiration from Dawn of War II and have Titus be "Captain of the Honor Guard" (which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist as a title anywhere else) a la Apollo Diomedes, but that seems too hoighty toighty a position (Titus is pretty down to earth) and it would be weird for others to be jealous of him because he already outranks them. Not sure what the answer is here.

Third, as the person who wrote the post pushing back against the Titus wanking and trying to give the opposition more legitimacy, I think Agemman would be a pretty decent voice for the opposition. I was also thinking Titus could be opposed by a highly respected Chapter Master of a successor chapter, since it would be pretty hard for them to stay neutral in all this. The Novamarines are Second Founding and mentioned to be highly respected and honorable in canon, so their Chapter Master might also be a leader in the opposition to Titus (and could probably be more effective at it then Agemman, who comes off as mostly annoying when he shows up in the Black Library books).

>>57882801
cont.

"And after the enemy is beaten, what then? We will be guardians of ashes and dust. We will have starved our own worlds and people in the name of saving them. We will have burned our very culture and government, our history and way of life for 10,000 years on the pyre of war to fuel your ambitions. And you will be lord of a new Legion in all but name, answering to no one. You are not a Primarch, Titus."
"And if we do nothing, Bardan? We will be guardians of nothing. Our culture, our history, our PEOPLE will matter for nothing, because they will be biomass in the stomach of a Tyranid hive ship. That will be the price of your inaction."
- Exchange between Chapter Master Bardan Dovaro of the Novamarines and Acting Regent Titus of the Ultramarines, recorded on the floor of the Great Hall of the Senate on Macragge

>>57882801
Either Titus wasn't a captain and was instead of lower rank being groomed for leadership by Calgar as an apprentice or he was head of the 2nd.

Sicarius was Chapter Champion ane was bumped up to Captain to take over fron Titus when he became Regent. Due to Calgar possibly recovering at some point Sicarius didn't have rank of Champion removed. If/when Calgar wakes up everyone shuffles back to where they were.

Or Ultramarines were bigger and had additional companies

>>57882801
He could have been 2nd Company captain. Leandros is said to have gotten pissed when Titus leapfrogged over him for captaincy because he showed more initiative and flexibility. Titus got voted into being acting Chapter Master because at the time he was seen as the reasonable guy that everyone at least got along with. Now some of the other captains are regretting it especially with this whole legion building thing.

Sicarius could have gotten bumped up to 2nd Company Captain from Chapter Champion. Battle of Macragge was 254 years ago. Cato only got promoted to 2nd Company Captain after Macragge anyway in canon.

>Agemman
We could always make him come off as less annoying. Is his annoying-ness because of his whining or does he have good points that are just poorly written? I've heard 8th Ed. toned down his whininess a bit.

It could also be argued that in canon he's especially whiny because people are talking behind his back about promoting Cato fucking Sicarius over him. Titus would have a comparable service record and lack Cato's asshole personality, which might make Agemman less bitter but more willing to criticize him than he would someone like Calgar.

>Novamarines
This is a good point. There are a bunch of chapters in the Ultramar area, Novamarines, the Scythes, and the like. Most are Ultramarine derived, and while the Ultramarines are the most respected for being the first among equals Titus' statements have likely got them worried.

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Finally finished. Though there is a few parts that are a little iffy. Starts at the "HERESY time" section.

At first, it actually seemed like Chaos was going to keep its side of the bargain. The entire tone of the war did not shift, but many worlds that had been predicted to be in the path of breakaway warbands suddenly found themselves waiting for an invasion that never came, though this may have been more due to the actions of Horus and Guilliman than anything Erebus did. At the same time the response of the Dark Angels to crises became extremely variable and unreliable. The Dark Angels who fought alongside the Lion responded valiantly and with alacrity, but other groups replied to cries for help sluggishly if at all. However, it wasn’t before long that Erebus appeared beyond Luther again. He told Luther that the war against the Imperium wasn’t going so well, and while before the forces of Chaos were content to have Luther sit out the war now they needed help. There was a chance that the followers of the Ruinous Powers might actually lose the war, and if that happened, well, there was no guarantee that the Imperium wouldn’t find out about Erebus and Luther’s little bargain from captured traitors.

In retrospect, what Erebus said was clearly a ruse. Although Chaos and the Beast’s forces had lost some momentum on their blitzkrieg through the stars, the tide was far from turning, and even if the Imperium had found out about the deal from prisoners of war they would have had little reason to believe it was anything more than an attempt to sow suspicion among Imperial forces by traitors. Erebus had no evidence beyond his word that such a deal had been made. But in the heat of the moment, and due to his own guilt over having been tempted into making this deal in the first place, Luther was unable to recognize Erebus’ claim for what it was. Luther was enraged by this, Erebus was clearly altering the terms of their deal, but he didn’t see any way out of it.

>>57884941
Having made judicious use of the stick, Erebus then offered Luther the carrot. The Ruinous Powers didn’t require much in order to help their schemes succeed. All they needed Luther to do was burn down some Maiden Worlds. It’s not like Luther would be required to commit treason or kill humans. They were just eldar. Luther accepted Erebus’ terms with a snarl, before setting off to organize his forces to perform the deed. Fifteen Maiden Worlds burned before the relentless assault of Luther’s Dark Angels. Upon hearing this news, the Lion was horrified. Already irritated by the apparent lackadaisicalness of his forces, he immediately set out to find Luther and demand an explanation.

The Lion finally caught up to Luther in the ashes of the Maiden World once known as Tarsus. Already in a rather poor state of mind, the Lion made no attempts to try and talk his brother down or convince him to surrender. Instead, he marched his honor guard down the ramp of his ship, bolters drawn, before asking his brother what the hell he thought he was doing. Even though Lion didn’t like the eldar either, there was a world of difference (or rather, fifteen worlds) between merely disliking them and butchering the civilians of their nominal allies. Being fixed by the Lion’s withering, contemptuous glare, Luther found himself having trouble explaining his actions to his little brother. His tone low, and with a bit of shame in his voice, Luther told Lion that he had made a deal…for Franj. Upon hearing those words, the Lion long pent-up rage finally erupted and he struck Luther in his anger. It wasn’t a hard blow, but it was enough to knock Luther off his feet and escalate the situation to violence. Lion yelled that committing massacres in Franj’s name did nothing but sully Franj’s honor, and the country would rather die than have such blood on its hands.

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>>57885019
Something in Luther snapped at Lion’s accusation. He declared him a traitor to Franj, willing to let his country be gutted and eaten by foreign powers rather than protect it, and in a fit of madness ordered the Dark Angels to kill him. Both brothers were enraged at the other’s perceived betrayal.

Luther’s order sent the Dark Angels into disarray. Luther had originally justified his orders to the Dark Angels by claiming that the eldar had turned on the Imperium, and the Lion had ordered the maiden worlds burned in retaliation. Most of the Dark Angels had obeyed, since they were used to Luther being the spokesman for the Lion and Lion’s poor personal skills meant he had trouble voicing a reasonable counterargument. Many were more loyal to Luther than Lion, being Franj nationalists. Others, particularly those who were with Lion or capable of critical thinking, realized that Lion had ordered no such thing and that Luther had completely lost it. Still others had no clue what was going on due to the contradictory sets of orders and were merely caught in the middle. When the Dark Angels loyal to Luther raised their bolters, those loyal to the Lion did so response. It was absolute chaos, brother against brother, with many not even knowing if they were fighting traitors or those loyal to their cause.

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>>57885045
In the confusion, Luther and many of his followers commandeered the Rock, the flagship of the Dark Angels, and escaped into the Warp. Luther’s madness only worsened as he mulled over Lion’s words and the fighting on Lilarsus, leading him to believe that the entire Imperium including his brother had turned against him. Many of the Dark Angels felt the same way, seeing themselves as abandoned and betrayed by the Imperium they had once served, and resented it. After Tarsus, Luther’s Dark Angels began burning both human and eldar worlds indiscriminately. The worlds that had been “spared” after Luther’s initial bargain found themselves the target of Chaos, with interest. Besieged Guardsmen on many worlds looked to the skies in hope when they saw the famed Astartes legions come to reinforce them, only to be butchered when their “saviors” landed on the planet. Chapters of the legion devolved into civil war as former brothers drew arms against one another as they realized they served different causes. Many more Dark Angels turned to the service of the Ruinous Powers out of desperation and a desire for survival.

The Lion never returned to Old Earth during the War of the Beast to participate in the Battle of Terra. Many have criticized the Lion for these actions, however, in the Lion’s mind, his priorities were clear. His men were slaughtering one another, and it was his duty to put things right. Perhaps more importantly, it was his mistake, HIS mistake, and the universe would not be set right until he took pains to correct it.

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>>57885068
Eventually, Lion tracked Luther and his inner circle to the world of Caliban. Getting to Caliban was easy enough. When the Dark Angels reached the planet Luther’s Fallen found themselves sandwiched between the loyalist Caliban garrison and the Lion’s reinforcements, forcing them to temporarily break their hold over the planet in order to regroup. However, when the Dark Angels found out from captured traitors what Luther was actually looking for on Caliban, they were stunned. Luther had learned from the entity known as Be’lakor (which the Imperium had only recently learned existed due to the actions of the Alpha Legion, and only then at great cost) that Caliban was the site of the Ouroboros, a device created by an ancient xenos race, one even older than humanity, the Watchers, or the eldar, capable of warping the very fabric of space-time, which they had used to create the Webway. The Dark Angels realized the implications of this discovery, here was the potential solution to the issue of the fragile, unreparable Webway, and possibly a means to free the Imperium and the galaxy from the tyranny of the Warp, whereas the Watchers were shocked at learning the origins of their eons of suffering had been buried under their own feet. No one knew exactly what Luther planned to do with the equipment, but all agreed it could not be anything good.

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>>57885166
The Dark Angels and Watchers were faced with a dilemma. Destroy the device that could potential prove the salvation of the entire galaxy, or leave it to fall into the hands of the Fallen. Although the loyalist Dark Angels could disrupt Luther’s control of Caliban, they could not hold the planet, as Luther’s forces greatly outnumbered their own. In the end, it was the Watchers who made the decision to blow up their own homeworld. They loved Caliban, it was their home despite being harsh and warp-tainted, but they realized the danger that Luther in control of the Ouroboros would prove. Better that no one have it than let it be abused. As the Watchers wired their planet to blow with Exterminatus-class weaponry, the loyalist Dark Angels launched a counterattack on the Fallen, with the Lion particularly eager to take the fight to his brother. However, when Lion reached what should have been Luther’s sanctum within the Rock, he realized he had been tricked. Luther had known where Lion would have looked for him, and therefore did the exact opposite, taking a small strike team to the surface of Caliban. However, he was quickly forced to turn around when he realized what the Watchers had done to their planet. Lion was also forced to retreat, realizing that he and his men risked being cut off and overwhelmed by the Fallen if they tried to wait to ambush Luther. No one had won at Caliban. Luther had lost the Ouroboros, but Lion had lost his brother.

>>57885250
Then it picks up with the rest from there. There was this one last part which I had to try and explain why the Dark Angels were said to work with some Craftworlds in previous threads that could go elsewhere.

Ironically, the fact that the Lion was so quick to respond to the reports of Luther’s treason won him the gratitude of several Craftworlds, even though the Lion himself wasn’t fond of eldar. The modern Dark Angels maintain discrete relationships with several Craftworlds, who provide them with information, resources, and occasionally unauthorized use of the Webway which the Dark Angels use to hunt down their mutual enemy: the original Fallen.

Basically I was thinking of treating it like post-WWII Nazi hunters. Dark Angels want to hunt down the original Fallen who besmirched their honor, Eldar want to hunt down the bastards who burned their worlds.

>>57885294
Good shit, fills in some badly needed detail and props for finishing up one of the last holes in our Primarch fluff. Now we just have Fulgrim, Dorn, and Angron left, and I've picked up writing Angron again so hopefully we'll have something soon.

bump
Also turning the new Ferrus stuff into a full story to supplement his old bio should go on the next OP's list of stuff to do

>>57888646
Some of the Ferrus stuff would work really well as a character piece. So far, most of his earlier dissent against the Fabricator-General has been in his head. He's ready and willing to blow up Savlar, but he knows that the Steward wouldn't let it come to that and so all he has to do is stand there and look menacing. He doesn't openly voice dissent, at least not to the point where it becomes the mecha-pope trying to tell a crusader up for sainthood to toe the line, but he flexibly interprets orders to whatever he feels is most efficient (and in many cases bypasses the Fabricator-General's fanaticism).

How many Fabricator-Generals have there been? There's Zagreus Kane, Oud Oudia Raskian, and there was at least one, possibly two during the Great Crusade. You have one who was open minded enough to see the Steward's offer of joining as a good thing for Mars, and then you have a Fabricator-General later who nearly picks a spite-boner measuring contest with Savlar. One Fabricator-General was murdered by Vangorich and another was overthrown by Kane.

The Fabricator-Generals have probably been variable in personality too. Zagreus Kane was harsh but fair. Raskian is notably arrogant. The Fab-General at the time of Unification was notably open-minded.

>>57886277
Working on the War of the Beast ork diplomat incident, which should also fill in some details of some other WotB and Great Crusade stuff. Running into issues making the parts I already have written fit together and sound good. Feel a bit rushed since it feels like the threads are getting harder to keep up and there is a time limit.

Also I didn't realize until re-reading "The War for Heaven" that we have Malcador dying before the War of the Beast. Thankfully I don't think we have any fluff that contradicts that.

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Since the threads are having trouble staying up and are in need of new material, I thought I’d post a couple of “just for fun” things I had been thinking about.

However, both are explicitly non-canon post-999.M41 things that contain some of my own thoughts on what the universe post-999.M41 might look like. Given how we have things set up I feel like no one person should be able to force their vision of a definitive post-M41 world on anyone else, so I put them on Pastebin so that if people don’t want to be tainted by them they don’t have to read them. I realize they’re probably a bit stupid, but I had fun writing them and I hope you enjoy reading them.

The first could technically fit into any possible future timeline without violating the Schrodinger’s canon we set up for the universe, though you’d probably have to read the epilogue to understand how that could be.

https://pastebin.com/JfQxmWN7

I came up with the idea when it was mentioned that Tarellians to the Old Ones are basically like if a species of sapient rats emerged millions of years after humanity went extinct and found human artifacts and thought we were gods.

My aims for the writing were to make it xenofiction, on the one hand make it completely clear that this species is weird compared to how humanity sees the world (I mostly based it on real rats, chimpanzees, and bonobos). On the other hand they’re basically Skaven who worship the Imperium as gods (and thus take some of their moral compass after them) rather than being created as the monstrous self-destructive minions of a certain daemon with an inferiority complex.

Also, does this mean Morty was right? Vermin really do get the last word?

>>57889052
>Thankfully I don't think we have any fluff that contradicts that.
Even if we did, it kinda fits the in universe conspiracy theories to say that Malcador didn't really die, received immortality treatment just like Horus, and is a part of the Hydra.

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>>57889477
And here's the other

https://pastebin.com/pW8ErK4B

The origins of this one are a little different. It arose out of just throwing dialogue around while writing the first one and showing character interaction. Indeed, I forgot a chunk of it and had to fill it in imperfectly.

The part I find most interesting about this piece is not immediately obvious at first. The story is basically two young adults talking with each other. Despite their origins, they have no fear of being sodomized by Chaos, killed by Necrons, or eaten by tyranids. It represents the exact kind of future Eldrad, Oscar, Isha, and everyone else in the Imperium has been fighting for for the last 10,000 years.

Also, to clarify the parts that stick out.

Obyron and Lofn was something I thought about when we mentioned Obyron's fight with Imotekh and "you know, a Lone Wolf and Cub staring Obyron and Lofn would be really cool". The idea being that shit officially hits the fan enough that Taldeer and LIVII are willing to go to Zahndrekh for help, who for the sake of protecting an innocent child decides to assign the best bodyguard he knows of to them.

Tzeentch is a Schrodinger's reference. For all we know birdman is just lying low (just as planned).

Isha and Oscar don't like Ynnead talking to the Void Dragon not because they don't like the Void Dragon per se, but because Isha's an overprotective mom and he's the Void Dragon. They think he's going to corrupt him. I keep thinking of something like the conversation between Grendel and the dragon in Grendel, where the dragon actually gives surprisingly helpful advice despite his status.

Nightbringer being stuck as a scythe is due to Khaine winning their rematch, because in his mind a boy needs a weapon before he can become a man and Khaine already has the Wailing Doom, so he gave the scythe to his only nephew (which coincidentally completes the liminal being/death god look).

>>57885294
That is some seriously good shit.

>>57886277
>I've picked up writing Angron again so hopefully we'll have something soon.

Getting hype as fuck

>>57889052
Given how long FGs live in Vanilla there could have been only half a dozen or so of them since AoS ended.

I´m going to try to write something about the training of sisters, but first a idea.

The Frateris Militia. What happen with then after the AoA? So..I think in a pair of destinys:

One is that the organization continue as a sort of pseudo-adepta, in a similar form to the USA Natinal Guard. Including veterans and civilians who are trained to form local militias and help the PDF in wars and disasters.

The second is that the Frateris continue working whith the sisterhood, more as support personal that as combat troops: But it give the orders more autonomy. In a way similar to the chapter-serfs. And it give men who whant to serve the sisterhood, and females that don´t have the interest or skill to be sisters, something to help.

The two ideas are perfectly compatible.

Now all we need is a title for Lion like the other primarchs. There's "Knight of Franj" but I don't remember if Luther was called that or "Sword of Franj". If it was the latter it might a nice contrast because it shows that Lion was known for being more than a warrior, but for his nobility as well.

I have and idea for a history featuring the Daemon Breakers after seeing return of the jedi but i have a writer`s block.

The scene open in the moment Luke(aprentice pre-augmentation Daemon Breaker) go to see Vader(his master).

Vader-You have done well my young apprentice

Luke-Hmm..Thanks..Master..but..can you stop talking that way.

V-How?

L-I mean..is like..i don´t know..some of evil fantasy wizard?.

V-I´m not some two bit sorcerer in a child´s play. You..I..We..Are Daemon Breakers. We have been born with gifts that most mortal men will correctly envy. We have the force of will and body to go beyond the limits of mortal flesh. To show the neverborn that theirs place are at ours feets, that those soulless nighmares don´t have power over ours lives.

L-Yeah..That is what i was talking

V-No...I will not stop talking this way...I like it...And be prepared, my master and brothers are waiting for you to be finally inducted as a full fledge brother.

L-Oh..eh..yepee?

Help please

>>57894666
Black Knight, like Zawisza Czarny(google this guy)

>>57894973
When the daemon breakers first came up someone wrote outr a version of the ghost busters song as their battle hymn. It was somewhere between badass and kinda goofy out of context, and I still picture daemon breakers singing it at the top of their lungs while marching through the webway or stomping out daemons.

>>57894973
>>57895172
That is the problem, i see then acting in this weird cartoonish mood. Like they know and find funny. And Erioch(Luke) acting all..Daria-like and telling then. It´s not serious.

>>57895172
>>57895393
I think the joke with the Daemon Breakers is they take it in all seriousness, but as readers sitting behind the fourth wall we see that they're chanting a modified version of the Ghostbusters theme and to us it's silly. No one remembers Ghostbusters in the darkness of the 41st millenium.

Not to say it can't also be badass as well. Had an idea for something involving the Daemon Breakers. Harlequins are seemingly discovered on a world suffering from a daemonic invasion. Harlequins try to get to Webway gate and almost get there but are swarmed by daemons. Lead daemon (Slaaneshi?) taunts the Harlequin that they tried to escape, but they failed. Harlequin replies it's not an escape attempt, it's an alumnnus reunion.

Then the Webway gate flares to life, and a shout erupts from its depths. "MEN OF AHRIMAN FEAR NO DAEMON!"

Hammer and anvil time.

>>57895731
Yeah, I think that playing them straight but earnestly as mystical warlock space knights, with all the grandeur and pomp and WIZARD! that entails, as opposed to a much more restrained jedi/sith-esque portrayal, would be great. On top of that, they have pretty close ties with the Harlequins and the Laughing God, so they might actually tent towards high spirits and good humor even when knee deep in daemon bits.

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>>57896430
forgot my image

>>57895731
My problem is that writing then that way feel like i´m making a army of Jar Jar.

>>57896473
not Jar Jar, more like the Geas Knights in KSBD if they were space marines. They just have some traditions that would seem really hokey if they weren't an order of space wizards that beat daemons into (and out of) the dirt.

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>>57896544
forgot my image again

>>57894973
>>57895731
>>57896430
Thanks. I don´t know if at the end are going to write the story. The basic outline is, who this guy Erioch end being the only serious guy in the daemon breakers. He is not some starring eyed kiddo. Momma is a securitas and teach him a dozen forms to kill with his hands before 10yr. Then he begin manifesting his psyker powers and before he is send to sanctioning(Don´t worry Eri, we wil see again), chaos attack. The daemon breakers come to save the day and at the end he left with then(momma is not happy). He is somewhat pragmatic and amoral but basically a good guy, who the well intentioned extremism of the DB feels correct. He is send to starkiller-like missions be his new master. And end doing a lot of archetipical wh40k thing(like surfing a tank to atack a DE barge) all the time commenting in the nonsense of that actions.

>>57895078
Wasn't that the name of the folk hero that Lion named the Dark Angels after? Though on the other hand Blood Raven-ing history in a Warhammer setting is always a good idea.

>>57893300
The only question is if that were the case, why didn’t Oscar just make the Securitas all-male. Oscar was on the fence about putting women on the front lines due to being raised by the traditionalist Malcador and growing up when Earth was a warn-torn hellhole. Dominica and Thor had to convince him otherwise.

They had to pull out all sorts of examples from history. Krole fought on the front lines and not much happened to her. Yes, she died to the Beast’s hordes, but so did Sanguinius and a lot of other people, and you don’t see Oscar banning men from front-line combat. You don’t see Oscar complaining about female Eldar serving as Aspect Warriors or Handmaidens, who comprise literally half of the force whose job it is to take the bullet for Oscar if it comes down to it (though Oscar might say that’s Isha’s purview, and therefore different). And thinking women shouldn’t be exposed to the worst of war, respectfully, sounds a tad hypocritical when you consider all of the female Guard regiments throughout the galaxy since the Great Crusade. Especially Cadia, where everyone has to pick up a gun and be ready to fight daemons at all times.

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>>57897267 (cont.)
Of course, another reason why the Securitas militant wing would be would be simply resources. By the end of the Age of Apostasy the galaxy would be in complete disarray, and Oscar would be lamenting that it seemed like he would almost have to create another batch of Space Marine legions to have enough forces to restore order. Thor and Dominica would have said well you know there’s a whole segment of the population out there that would almost double the potential recruiting pool. There were a lot more female Securitas candidates than males, simply because most men who were psychologically and physiologically compatible would have been whisked off to the Astartes. Dominica would have already been thinking along those lines due to being part of the Daughters of the Ancestral Sun.

Oscar wouldn’t have liked it. Thor and Alicia would have pointed out examples from history. They would point out that it would be a primarily defensive and order-maintaining force, so it wouldn’t be like the female recruits would be expected to go into the worst warzones and shoot daemons, Crones, and Ork warbosses in the face. If they did get in that position it would be because the world had been invaded, and it would be no different than if a civilian got caught by one of the above. By M36 Oscar’s view would have softened enough due to all the things he had seen that he would reluctantly agree to their proposal.

I can see the later Securitas augmentations being a bit more gender specific. You could make augments that work across the board equally, but it would require a lot more resources and a lot more time and effort to develop because they would have to be calibrated to react differently to male and female physiologies.

>>57897267
>>57897281
The sisters augmentation are sex-locked. But that is a good question in-universe that is launch to the NM orders. They can say that is only a question of tradition. It will not be so strange. And don´t justify their discrimination. But they, like other real life organizations will not buckle.

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>>57896734
Having one guy who realizes the silliness in an army of the comically serious sounds like it works well.

Isidorus: The daemon outbreak has been quelled and the remaining Daemon Breakers have all successfully retreated. Where are we going next?
Ahriman: We are going to the planet of Gat Qatrah, where we will face a cabal trying to steal a tome of great power.
Isidorius: I see. And how do you know that?
Ahriman: Wizard.
Isidorus: That's not's really an explanation.
Ahriman: I'm a wizard. I don't have to explain anything.
Isidorus: You keep saying that but part of me thinks you just like looking inscrutable.
Ahriman: Oh most definitely.

Also Ahriman probably has no clue he got into the Black Library by winning the Warhammer equivalent of Redline. He probably thinks at most "By Thothmes the galaxy is a weird place isn't it".

On the subject of Ahriman I could see that, despite his byronic status I could see that one of Ahriman's good traits is he doesn't force people to do anything that he wouldn't do himself. The only, and I mean only, reason he doesn't do it himself is he thinks he is going to have to sacrifice himself to bring back Prospero. He is liked by a lot of the Daemon Breakers, and byronic amoral characters often live by some internalized code of rules. That said, "wouldn't do himself" covers a lot of fucked up things, especially since he feels like he is damned for what he did and doesn't put a high importance on his own life.

>>57897414
It wouldn't be a question of tradition when they were first founded, since the Sisters would have had no tradition to speak of. And Oscar wasn't super sold on the idea.

Plus, the Sisters aren't just descended from the Daughters of the Ancestral Sun. They recruit from all over the Imperium. Strong religious beliefs or faith in a general ideal aren't required but they do look good on the application.

>>57897584
Well wasn't part of it that various religious militias, a good number of them all female, were among some of Thror and the Steward's fiercest backers in the civil war.

>>57897660
One was, but that was likely because the world was a homogenous theocracy and so it would be impossible to raise a military force on the planet without them being religious. The Imperium only really has five rules it expects everyone to follow. Number four is no militarized religious institutions.

Theocracy worlds like Ophelia have been noted to specifically set things up so the military is technically separate from the church and military standing is not tied to church position, and is only accountable to the government because it's the government. Abbess-General Cain's authority has been noted to come from the General part of her title, not the Abbess, for example.

Yes it's weasley and operates on the letter of the law. The alternative would be there being no PDF or regiments coming from that planet.

The Emperor would tolerate it because a local concern and for the above mentioned reason. It is also possible he could be convinced into making a militarized order of women after 6000 years of living in a galaxy that isn't a Space third-world country like he grew up in. But as has been noted before, the idea of making an Imperium-wide institution made up of militarized religious orders who are also all women would not just press all his buttons, but slam them with a sledgehammer.

>>57893300
Females who aren’t SoBs but want to help? So like literally every part of the Sororitas other than the Orders Militant, I.e. Hospitallers, Famulous, Dialogous.

The Frateris being the Chapter Serf equivalents to SoBs makes some sense, as they seem distinct enough from the regular Guard structure to have somewhat independent logistics. I imagine the non-military Sororitas came about since the Orders Militant were spread across the galaxy and found that they could help out by performing some specialized tasks, sorta like how the real life crusader orders started out protecting pilgrims and then realized they could help out/make a ton of money by getting to banking and hospitals and what not.

As for convincing Oscar to accept the SoBs, I think people are forgetting women had been dying as an equal part of the Guard and Navy for 6 millennia at that point so it’s not like women in the military was a huge new concept to Oscar. The question was simply whether or not to invest in creating some augmentations so they could create super soldier females as well, and for that point, they could literally point in any direction at xenos/cultists/daemons that wanted to eat the Imperium and say, “We kinda need more super soldiers.”

>>57898394
Actually, from what has been writen in the last treat, the sisters M and NM has a very complete education of around 10+yr, and the orders are not a work, but like the Astartes are a way of life(Especifically SoB).
So i was thinking in that some women don´t really wan´t to commit to that level and a sort of asociated level can be a logic solution.

SO I MANAGED TO BED A HOWLING BANSHEE THE OTHER NIGHT. SHE WAS A SCREAMER, LET ME TELL YA! DOES WONDERS FOR THE EGO.

ANYWAY, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY TIPS ON HOW TO PROTECT YOUR HEARING DURING COITUS? DOES THEIR SCREAMING WORK PSYCHICLY?

>>57899262
The cute hospitaler before you look at you like you were...Well you don´t know exactly how...She has this cute Eldar-like?...ears?...She say something to another sister. And you barely hear she say.."Call the Commissar. Tell him Sister Alvea need him. Another one has come"...Shit

>>57899262
Shit taste, fampai.

Banshees are trash.

>>57899704
>>57899436
WHAT?!

>>57898394
It could also be that a lot of the men who could join go to the Space Marines in much the same way that the SoB are often the ones that would have been made good Space Marines.

>>57899712
Making a bad joke about Eldar before a Sister Hospitaler Eldar..Yeah..Prety smart move

>>57899752
WHAT?! I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

>>57898394
This is what was mentioned by >>57897267. Shooting down female super soldiers on the grounds of keeping women from having to experience the worst parts of war falls flat when you start looking at Imperial history. And Oscar was self-aware enough to realize that despite his personal reluctance.

The issue is more with the Sisters being an inherently religious organization. Oscar could be pushed enough to allow for an all-women or mostly women military organization. Make it an intrinsically religious organization on top of that and this pushes Oscar from "well, you have a point" to "hell no".

It also should be mentioned that we don't necessarily need to make every non-militant order tied back to the Sororitas. Canon has this thing where almost every human female mentioned in the non-novel fluff aside from a few Inquisitors are Sisters of Battle. Famulous have been mentioned as sounding like more of an AdBio thing and Dialogous in canon basically took over the old Iterator's job when the vanilla Imperium realized they still needed diplomats. Though I really like the analogies with non-militant Crusader orders.

>>57898772
It probably varies from world to world. Some worlds we have people being picked out for the Astartes as children (not as child soldiers, but groomed to become Astartes until they come of age). Others seem to allow people to sign up when they try to join the military.

In contrast, to vanilla Astartes, who are tragic because they are child soldiers, and Age of Sigmar's Stormcast Eternals, which are described as tragic because they are mostly adults who died and have to get back up and fight the good fight, sacrificing everything, including their very identity, to protect the ones they love, Astartes here have been described as tragic in the way that bright-eyed recruits in WWI and WWII were. Old enough to able to make the choice of their own will, but young enough that they don't fully comprehend what they are throwing away.

>>57896734
Ok..let´s see if i can make the juice flow. A vignete of i want to write.

The archon just laugh and trow the girl to the ground. She has a moment to cry before impact. Blood, gore and brain matter splash before Erioch.
"I´m going kill this guy" He gritt his teeth and fight againts the pain of his wounds.
"Slow and painfull" He put his head against the pomel of the forcesword.
"Where the hell is a sorcerer when you need it" He rise, full of hate. With the whispers of the neverborn in his ears.
The PDF were being crushed around him. They need to take down the barge quickly, and the Leman Russ Canons were ripped...
The Leman Russ...
The Forcesword...
"No. This is a really a stupid idea" He look to the tank. The threads were moving. And the conductor was alive using the impromptu cover.
"Can you drive it?" The soldier look at him "Uh..What?". He point to the wreck. "Fuck..What?..Yeah..But..It can do little more"
"Good" She jump in the ripped mass of metal that one time was a turret.
"Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!" The soldier blink. Then give him a really wicked smile. And with a roar the engine ignite.

>>57899712
The Commissar look at you...
He rise his gun...
He says something...
BLAM

>>57900772
My final thoughts were "at least it wasn't a Tau."

>>57900772
Was he shot just for nailing some Eldar? Why?

>>57900954
Jealousy, I bet.

>>57900954
Seriusly?!...You really belive that this guy can nail a Banshe?!...And then say it before ours innocent Eldar Maiden(Yeah...right)...Fuck all the guys of the regiment(and some girls) whant him dead. The Commissar has made us a favor. If not, Isha forgive. I´m was going to catachaning myself.

>>57901121
DID YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU PLOW A BANSHEE JUST RIGHT, HER EYES ROLL BACK AND SHE GETS THIS BIG DOPEY SMILE ON HER FACE? I THINK THOSE BLUE COMMIES HAVE SOME STUPID WORD FOR IT, BUT IT'S JUST THE CUTEST DAMN THING EVER

>>57901305
You read to much hentai.

>>57901355
WHAT? SPEAK UP, SHE WAS A SCREAMER.

>>57901355
What's a "hentai"? Sounds like a Tau invention to me.

>>57898394
>>57899738
>>57899819
>>57901373
Changing of theme and doing something more useful. There something that must been remenber. Astartes and Securitas augmentation are nor something that you can give to every human. Only selected individuals can have the process. There are more SoB because the impact of the mods are less radical. Beign augmented are not necesary for the NM orders. And the Securitas is a Elite Group, that mean a higuer level of training. Those who can`t make it, can end as support in the Frateris. The fact that NM are all female is just a question of respect for their origins as the work of Alicia. We don´t need to look for a most complex answer.

>>57901437
Can´t you do something better than this?

>>57901568
That works.

>>57901568
The most simple answer would be that the Securitas are all female because they are mostly drawn from the candidates who would have been Space Marines had they been born male. The non-militant orders are all derived from different sources and aren't necessarily all female, though they might have close ties.

The Dialogous either evolved or are replaced by Iterators, because diplomats are still needed in an Imperium for whom genocide isn't the first and only answer for every problem.

Famulous are a bunch of AdBio who decided to make their crusade fixing inbreeding, with the role of diplomats keeping inter-house fighting down taken up by other branches. It's a wonder the Imperium survived six millennia without the Famulous preventing inbreeding when it took six centuries for inbreeding to drive the real life Habsburgs extinct.

Hospitallers are the best candidate for a non-military order connected with the militant Securitas (especially given the name). Could be formed from branch of Sisters focused on healing the wounded and branched out from there. Militant Sisters who generally can no longer fight might end up here or in similar orders.

The question is how much of the situation in canon gets preserved and how much doesn't. Making them separate is simpler and more logical for a non-theocratic Imperium, but at the same time how much complexity do we add to justify how things work in canon. It's kind of like the situation with the AdBio.

>>57830237
>>57830354
>>57830380
>>57830401
>>57830900
>>57830938
>>57831047
>>57831098
>>57831262
>>57831966
>>57899262
>>57899704
>>57899752
>>57899790
>>57900772
>>57900893
>>57900954
>>57901028
>>57901121
>>57901305
>>57901355
>>57901437
>>57901601
Seriously, what the hell is going on in this thread. We're wasting posts on low-quality bait.

>>57902158
>people having fun is bait
k

>>57902158
We must see then back to the past of the orders.
Their raising to prominence come during the AoA by the hands of Alicia. During this time the situacion of the empire was chaotic. A full assault of their enemies will broke the back of the Imperium and colapse everything. When Thor go looking for Oscar he left Dominica triying to hold the colapse. She have a mostly paramilitar organization in the form of the soroditas and frateris. This come primarily of her own religious background. But is not enough. The Dialogous, Famulous, and Hospitaler were like the AdBio, diferent organizations. But they only have a very lose conection with their parents Adepta. Alicia take control of this mostly orphan groups and begin to integrate then in the future Adepta Securitas. With time they end integrated in a bigger organization. But they have respective traditions that make the diference between M & NM orders. The NM are primarily and old girls club and in the colective conscience of the Imperium and all-female group. That make men rarely seen in their halls, and end being a sort of tradition. Men rarely if ever try to enter in the organization. Technicaly is posible but social inertia make this somewhat rare.

>>57902158
>he’s so new he wasn’t here in the early threads when it was mostly fapbait with occasional writefaggotry

Time is a wheel. From the fapbait we came and to the fapbait we return.

>>57902158
>No fun allowed
Aww...

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The chamber was alive today.

“Khorne, Khorne, Khorne”

The Crone Eldar thronged throughout the halls, the light glinting off their eyes like predators in the night, all attention on the ghastbone circle carved into the ground at the center of the chamber. At the center of the circle was a great carved, seated idol, patriarchal and blasphemous in its bearing. The low light glinted off its angular features, giving it a malevolent aura. The area immediately surrounding the stature was conspicuously free of Crones given the crowd, as if the Crones feared they would be struck dead on the spot if they dared to approach the statue. Along the immediate edge of the circle 512 Crone Eldar sat on their knees in supplication, eyes wide and with bated breath as they chanted the 888 sacred names of the Blood God.

“Kharneth, Khorgar, Bloodwolf, Axefather…”

Further away more Crone Eldar cavorted like fey witches at black mass, not a part of this ritual but merely attracted to the spectacle like piranhas with the taste for blood beneath the roots of a great mangrove. They flitted back and forth from shadows cast by witchlight, dancing with daemons and occasionally performing horrible acts of violence upon one another.

Eight ritually slaughtered sixty-four sacrificial victims, prisoners of war captured in battle and specifically retained for this occasion. Wraithbone knives plunged into hearts as screams echoed through the night. Blood spilled across the floor of Craftworld Altansar, seeping into grooves custom-made to channel into the appropriate sigils. The pulse of the atmosphere had quickened in the room, every surviving Crone could feel their blood beat in their ears. Now that the cattle and heathens had been killed, it was the sacrificers’ turns. Seven Crones died, six impaling themselves on brass spikes surrounding the statue and the seventh’s throat being cut by the eighth in a cold-blooded act of murder.

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>>57904626
The foul deed having been done, the sole surviving Crone turned to address the seated idol in the center of the chamber in a parade ground voice.

“We call upon the great lord Khorne, blood king of the galaxy! I offer up my life! I offer my soul! I offer my heart’s blood to bring His hate into the world.”

The sacrifice was accepted and the Avatar rose. There were no remains that needed to be disposed of.

Anyone who had ever seen an actual Avatar of Khaine would realize just how unnatural the figure in front of them was. Rather than the slender physique of the Eldar its body was robust and solid, built like an Astartes, made to emphasize raw power over agility. Instead of being made of molten magma and red-hot metal its skin appeared to be merely simmering, with only a slight glowing around its armor joints revealing the heat within. Its armor was reddish-black, the color of long-dried blood, made of iron artistically inlaid by a trim of brass. It hefted its weapon, a massive two-handed axe that it comfortably held with a single hand. Power seemed to crackle in the air around it like ozone after a lightning strike, the animated by a much more powerful entity than the maimed war god of the Eldar. The Avatar of Khorne turned to address its congregation.

“I, the god of gods and rightful king of the galaxy have set foot in this mortal plane once more. Bring me foes worthy of my mettle so I may take their heads and slake my bloodlust.”

The Crones screamed in adulation and frenzy.

“BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"

>>57889641
Hm, I like these anon. One broader question I have that’s related to your writing is just how “human” gods should be in this AU. I wonder if we’re not anthropomorphizing them too much, since we’ve referred to Isha having PTSD and whatnot. Wonder if we can make her a bit more alien and on a higher scale than mortals?

>>57905382

Gods are the sum collection of all emotions and thoughts (read: conscious and subconscious) had by, well, every species with a warp present, reflected and filtered by the Warp.

It's like a person looking back at their dreams. It's weird, but close and personal enough that it... isn't so much.

>>57905382
The Eldar gods and the like (such as Qah) act like mortals because they were made by mortals. The various races that the Old Ones taught to make gods saw their gods much like the Greeks, the Norse, and many other cultures saw their gods: as souped up mortals. As a result their gods tended to act like mortals because they believed they acted like mortals, and built them to view the world like mortals.

The C'tan are more physical than any warp entity, including weird individuals like the Void Dragon, but their thoughts are a lot more alien because they lack any of the drives of normal life beyond "eat". Anything else is based on the individual's experiences. They don't even have subconscious instincts and biases the way our primate brains do.

The Iron Minds have been described as having very alien thought processes, but at the same time they still saw themselves as human. The Men of Iron and Men of Gold called themselves "men" after all.

If you want gods that are a lot more alien and abstract, look at the Chaos Gods. The Old Ones created four of them to manage and be empowered by very abstract concepts in the Warp and nothing else, and as a result they are a lot more abstract and almost monomaniacal. Everything they do ultimately boils down to their portfolio and "more". That's part of the reason they're so dangerous, they don't understand the idea of restraint or delayed gratification. They can't comprehend the idea that they're destroying their own power source just for another hit. Slaanesh is the same way.

The best they've been able to do is recognize Slaanesh is a threat and avoid it. In canon (4th ed. I think) the tension between Khorne and Slaanesh is because as the god of excess technically all of the things the other three do potentially fall under Slaanesh's portfolio and they know it. Khorne wants to beat the crap out of Slaanesh but knows that if he acted on it, it would mean he lost control of himself and Slaanesh would effectively win.

>>57907324
Also, going by the above, Ynnead wouldn't be a god so much as a "who knows what". One parent is an Eldar god, the other is a Man of Gold, which were basically artificially mass-produced human gods but still very mortal. While it makes a lot of sense for a liminal being who is the very definition of crossing boundaries (life and death, eldar and human, etc.) makes him a pain to classify. I can only imagine the arguments Isha and the Emperor must have had.

"He's a god"
"Our child is not a god. I'm mortal, for one."
"Two-thirds god then."
"No, that sounds stupid."

Ynnead even points out that even he doesn't know how to explain things, and that's he's simultaneously performing the reincarnation duties personally and drinking beer at the same time. The people who could explain it aren't helping.

The other thing to consider is Ynnead is also much younger than the other gods. He's young enough that he's the younger of the two beings in that conversation. He probably doesn't have the experience to view things in the long-term scale like we've shown Oscar being able to do after millennia being Emperor.

>>57904636
Nice.

>>57907324
>They don't even have subconscious instincts and biases the way our primate brains do.
I get the opposite impression from the C'tan actually. Because of their fractal nature a C'tan is composed of just smaller bits of its whole self, and those pieces have the same personality. A C'tan personality is ultimately reducible to a very simple prime directive built into the simplest possible iteration of its fractal pattern, and in the cases of the Nightbringer, Deceiver, and Outsider those prime directives seem to be nullify other (kill), falsify information (lie), and follow command (obey) respectively

>>57908387
Which gets a bit murky given their evident complex personalities and agency.

Also they grew souls.

>>57902158
I'd say that the prevention of inbreeding is not the goal of the Famulous. The goal is stability, preventing inbreeding from making non-viable or unstable rulers is a means to that end.

They are not matchmakers, they might occasionally dabble in match making but that is not only what they do. For the sake of the people as a whole they are willing to "prune" errant branches of the family trees by one means or another, they might politically discredit, poison with contraceptives and wait or outright murder a bunch of people. They might also encourage a cadet branch to form and set up shop thirty thousand light years away on a new frontier world because they don't usually want them dead so much as no longer an issue.

They differ from the AdBio that they strongly associate with in that the AdBio doesn't engineer social structures. AdBio deal with the wider population's biological stability. They see that shit is getting stagnant and forming a monoculture and they will either encourage a bunch of people to swap places with a bunch of people from a radically different gene-pool or grow a new stock of people tailored for the task and release them into the wild to fend for themselves.

Both are useful in different ways and both work better together than they do apart. AdBio make vaccines, Famulous distribute them.

>>57909540
Another diference in vanilla is that they are castellans who manage the household.

This might not be the best place to ask, but you lot seem to care about 40k lore rewriting so;

Would the 40k setting work rewritten into a fantasy setting, replacing the galaxy with an ocean world, and the planets with islands? I heard the term Black Ships out of context and thought of both the psyker carrying craft and literal black ships.

>>57910090
Why not? Is fantasy do whatever you like.

Black Ships are used in the Imperium, to transport nascent psyker to training and sanctionig.

>>57910090
Something like,

>In the glorious dawn of the Age of Sail, there is FAME AND FORTUNE! Some time after the mysterious magical destruction of the Isle of Eldar, the Emperor of Mankind (the greatest wizard of his kind) resolved to expand his domain beyond Terra Island, the largest landmass known to exist. To manage his fleets, he created simulacra of himself, echoes of his power but still powerful beings. The first of these simulacra, Horus, was manipulated by the Call of Chaos, a strange entity or entities thought to dwell at the bottom of the ocean (or even lower). Turning their fleets against their creator, the Horus Harriers remain a threat upon the seas, despite the death of their captain in combat with the Emperor. The Emperor himself was mortally wounded in that duel, but is known to be still alive, as it is his magic that powers the Golden Lighthouse, the great spire of light at the center of Terra Island, that allows unparalleled navigation for the fleets of Mankind.

>>57910518
Cool. It reminds me of Brighthammer

>>57910518
Eldar:
>Were casters beyond compare, until their successful attempt to summon a Chaos Entity. It arrived, and immediately sank back into the depths, taking their island with it. Now only a fraction of the Eldar remain, living on giant vessels they call worldcraft, with each one having effectively become its own tribe. The Dark Eldar were those who were somehow touched by the Entity and are drawn into the depths. It is said they can breathe water and rise up to raid unsuspecting ships and islands for slaves and resources, and that they have an island that floats somewhere in the depths.

>>57910518
Orkum:
>A form of green algae, if left unchecked infects people, leaving them with virulent green skin and a tendency towards violence. All ships have to keep vigilant that there is none below decks, and it is said there are some islands completely overtaken, every rock, animal and plant coated in the pernicious stuff.

>>57910518
Tyranids:
>A catch-all term for a variety of sea-faring animals known for the omnivorous appetites and numberless natures. Travel too far from the trade winds and you're liable to encounter a "swarm fleet", a name given for when these creatures assemble in number, chum the waters with themselves, driven into a frenzy by the prospect of devouring and being devoured. Anything foolish enough to stay in its path is likely to feed a thousand thousand mouths. Fortunately, they rarely reach the surface, as feeding fare lies thin. However, it is truly unknown how many dwell in the depths, and what governs the times and places they strike upwards.

>>57910518
I don't know enough about Tau or Necron lore to come up with an analogy, any help?

So given the larger chapters and the contradictory fluff regarding who is captain of which company it is possible that the heads of the Ultramarines looks like;

Chapter Master - Marneus Calgar
(Titus is Regent and former and the man he was grooming as a replacement)

Captain 1st Company - Severus Agemman
Captain 2nd Company - Cato Sicarius
Captain 3rd Company - Mikael Fabian
Captain 4th Company - Uriel Ventris
Captain 5th Company - Phelian (took over from Caito Galenus possibly a matter of months ago)
Captain 6th Company - Epathus
Captain 7th Company - Ixion
Captain 8th Company - Numitor
Captain 9th Company - Sinon
Captain 10th Company - Ledo Atheus (was not killed in this AU by Tau)

Scouts don't have their own company but are rather spread across the chapter. They also aren't the new recruits and are a discipline in their own right. Antilochus (with advice from Torias Telion) are the people who decide which of the new recruits get picked for training in the role of scout from the new recruits.

Which still gives us companies to work with or adding from the new M42 fluff. Acheran being the Captain of the 11th Company rather than replacing Cato Sicarius as captain of the 2nd for instance.

>>57892208
There were minimum 2 at the Unification to WotB era. 1st believed in suppressing knowledge of Chaos and the 2nd lynched him when it backfired nearly destroyed Mars.

The 2nd was not the predecessor to the one now. So we have at least 5 but probably more.

Also worth noting is how they handle succession. The current one was custom grown for the job towards the end of the previous one's life.

The one that came after the WotB and enacted Purge and Reform did not and was presumably quite senior to have the needed followers to usurp power without an overt civil war.

We don't know how FG No.3 was chosen or No.4 although by the time current one turns up it looks like it might already have been a traditional way of succession.

Assuming that, with the best longevity, no serious illness or injury they live for ~1,200 years then we are probably looking at 8 or 9 total Fabricator Generals of Mars since they joined the Imperium.

>>57897414
It could also be that the male equivalent of the BoS augmentation is straight up the TWs. Altering them wasn't a priority as they "worked" and afterwards they just stopped and kept with the Astartes.

>>57902675
>>57912386
Yes, this was talked about in the last thread.

At the end of AoA the Imperium need manpower and augment males of the Frateris. When things clam down they are retired. But the 1Gen of SoB are more stable and continue using it.

This can tie nicely as why the Securitas are All-female. As the SoB were a sex-locked service, the males of the Frateris end doing more and more support roles. They lose prominence.
Girls want to be SoB, and want to enter in the Militant order, be that time a higly prestigious asigment. The NM orders who were originally diferent groups with their own traditions and identitis, and weren´t born from and all-female order, slowly begin to be influenced be the most prominent militant wing. With time the Frateris end as the support service of the whole Adepta, and males don´t see the same prestige in enter the Securitas. The rest of the Imperium begin to see this Adepta as a Women service. There was never a formal change of politic, but it end this not change the fact that end beign a "Old Girls Club" with family males going to the Frateris.

Probably the change was unintentional, and took hundreds of years. A long time for the common human that think that this was always this way. Eldar probably see the change of politics, and they are a little puzzle. But the change is to quick for them to react, and they have more important things to do that rock the boat.

In the end, tradition, shortsighned, and nepotism, alter the whole service. The posibility of a male entering the Securitas is real. There isn´t laws against it. But most men will thing that is easy enter another adepta, and the effort don´t really pay.

This is unjust and totally reactionary but can be a interesting note in the history of the Imperium and Securitas.

>>57906884
Isha was said to have contradictory sets of memories of all the different versions of Eldar myths at the time when she was created. Also Lileath was her daughter and Morai-Heg was her mother because that's how things had always been despite the three popping into existence at about the same time.

>>57908387
Probably, but it seems like that's also dependent on how much personality can be retained by the shard. Wyverns are completely cut off from the main mind and have devolved back into "eat" as their primary directive. The C'tan have some internal reasonings as to why they do what they do rather than being created for a task and then retroactively justifying it to themselves beyond "because it's what I do".

>Nightbringer
It's all about me and my needs. The world exists to feed me, to live because I will it and die because I command it.

>Void Dragon
I love creating and learning new things, and mortals are like data that makes more data.

>Deceiver
It is so much fun to troll these dumbasses.

>Outsider
Just keep your head down and nothing will happen to you.

Indeed, the Outsider's behavior suggests something else beyond obedience is going on in its head. Either resentment, regret, or doubt about whether it's normal course of behavior was acceptable.

>>57904626
>>57904636
Short but well-written. Only questions are why does the ritual involve precisely five hundred and twelve Crone Eldar, and shouldn't they be using ghastbone knives in "wraithbone knives plunged into hearts,"? If there's no reason to use 512, it's likely better served by something like "hundreds of Crone Eldar" instead, and ghastbone is the material that Croneworlders tend to use in place of wraithbone.

>>57910090
>>57910306
>>57910518
>>57910559
>>57910621
>>57910663
>>57910744
>>57910795
While new, well-thought out ideas are great and all, this seems really off-topic, and it would better fit in a thread of its own. Otherwise it just pushes this thread closer to the post limit and the listed ideas never get any more development because they're not relevant to the main subject of Nobledark 40K itself.

>>57912969
With all the discussion about the Adepta Securitas, it may be worth noting that in previous discussion about the Sororitas they started as the military arm of the Ordo Securitas, IIRC, because with the formation of the Ordo Securitas came the decree of "no men under arms" for this department of the Inquisition, which limited the Sororitas to Alicia Dominica's all-female force because of this (loopholes for the win). Not sure how the Frateris Militia would fit into this, mostly expecting them to be phased out after the AoA came to an end.

>>57913683
Outsider is trying to delete itself. But it is immortal and due to getting a soul it remains. The nearest it can manage is to go into standby mode indefinitely. Problem is that if people think about him he wakes up.

>>57914464
The situacion here is that the loophole si stupid. Is something that can pass in reality of course. But we are triying to make the Imperium more reasonable. So we have 3 options:

1-Only the SoB are All-female
2-Use the Loophole
3-Look for other solution

Of the 3, option 2 is the one whith the less headaches.

>>57914643
Why would there be an actual law about no men at arms?

>>57914678
That is the weird part, in this EU. In vanilla is a reaction to the AoA. Here is to limit the power of the inquisition. I remenber that inquisitors have limits at how many agents can have. And in the end they use the same loophole.

>>57910795

>Necrons: There are legends about a great fleet of metal ships, with enigmatic men of steel and eyes of cinders. What happens when you meet them ranges, but best bet: stay away. Wooden carracks vs modern battleship rarely ends well.
>Tau: Free seeking colonists and seamen, people seeking a seperate live from the rule of the Golden Emperor.

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>>57905382
As the anon who originally wrote the piece, that my thought was that this is during Ynnead's "wild teenage years" where he doesn't know what the hell he's doing or what kind of person he's going to be. Later on in life he gets his head on straight and does becomes a bit more abstract. Switches between young, adult, and old and male and female forms willy-nilly (pic related) depending on the situation and who he's interacting with because he's the god of liminality and thus straddles all the boundaries. Old!Ynnead drops the David Bowie look and kind of looks like classic depictions of the grim reaper. Still gives a shit about individual mortal life however, because he's an Anubis-style psychopomp and being an asshole death god is more Nightbringer's thing.

Another reason Ynnead acts this way is his upbringing. Unlike all the other gods, Ynnead was literally born, as in spit out of a uterus in realspace. There's no precedent for that, even Lileath popped into existence fully formed. He spent most of his early life in realspace because the Warp was full of sharks and it wasn't safe to go swimming so there was no possibility for rapid aging through warp time-dilation. He seems to age normally because everyone treated him like a mortal child (Impossible Child, after all) and at this point he kind of believes he works like a mortal and that's just what mortals do. Also this is his "low key mortal guise". He doesn't go around in public in his "force of nature" form with his ethereal blue armor, hurricane hair, and stomach portal thing for the same reason Oscar doesn't go around in his MAXIMUM bling armor and flaming sword 24/7.

Also the bathos of Ynnead talking about parent problems given who his parents are is a comedy goldmine.

>>57914464
>512
8 times 8 times 8. Eight Crone sacrifices, sixty-four (eight times eight) prisoner sacrifices, 512 Crones beseeching the Blood God from the sides. Khorne just loves the number eight.

It should totally be ghastbone instead of wraithbone, though. It was ghastbone in the original sentence, then I realized "wait, this is basically just an Aztec heart-cutting ritual performed by crazy fair folk" and tried to emphasize that, but screwed up when I did.

>>57914464
>>57914643
>>57914678
>>57914775
The issue is that we still have the Emperor around. If it's really that important to keep on the books and people try to use a loophole to get around the letter of the law, the Emperor will say "bullshit" and throw it back. If stability is more important the Emperor will just say "well change the law then".

I think originally we had it as the Securitas was meant to monitor the Assassins, and because they were meant to be watchdogs and not impose the law themselves they weren't allowed to have standing armies. Then it got expanded after it was clear more supervision was needed after the AoA.

I like the idea that it's more social inertia and the limited recruit pool that keeps the militant arm all female.

>>57911629
Vangorich killed one during the Beheading before the Battle of Terra.

>>57914631
Outsider doesn't have a soul. Or at least not beyond background radiation like the C'tan originally did. It's the only surviving C'tan to explicitly not have a warp presence because no one other than the Necrons (who can't provide psychic power like other races can) and the other C'tan knows he still exists.

>>57918046
Social inertia can be used to make all the securitas female(with rare male) . But the question is if the NM are mixed or not.

I´m for make then all-female mostly because is what the sisterhood are in vanilla.

>>57918371
How did the non-militant orders even come about in vanilla. All of the jobs they do seem like ones that you would have regular people doing anyways, even if they are generally people put in place by the Ecclesiarchy for their faith. The militant orders are all female because the Administratum didn't want the Ecclesiarchy having a standing army after they abused the use of the Fraternis so frequently. To my knowledge, it's never been said what caused the Sororitas to break off into the additional non-militant orders. One would think the Ecclesiarchy would just fill them with men and women because they don't have to worry about the "men under arms" clause and Hospitaliers, Dialogous, and the like aren't expected to shoot people.

>>57918371
Ok. I´m going to expand my last post. In Nobledark Imperium we are triying to make the setting more reasonable at the same that we respect the source material. So the problem with the Securitas is:

If we are reasonable. Only the SoB have a reason to be All-female as their augmentations are sex-locked. The Frateris Militia can be folded as support personal for all the Adepta. The NM-orders are then mixed, maibe with a higher membership of women.

If we respect the source. Then we must use the reasoning of the social inertia to explain the All-female membership. A thing that is somewhat against the idea of this EU.

My opinion is favouring the second option. But i admit that dosn´t feel exactly right.

>>57919838
Because the NM orders are units in the wargame and fall under the "men under arms" this is the game explication.

Bump.

>>57920008
>>57920085
The Sororitas are always going to be the hardest part of canon to integrate into Nobledark. Their very history is based on a series of events that occur because the Imperium is a theocracy (and likely would not have existed in any form if the Horus Heresy had never happened), and their canon function is strongly tied to the fact that the Ecclesiarchy has more control over your life than any organization save the Administratum. The Ecclesiarchy indoctrinates you from childhood and tells you who you will breed with. They run the hospitals in case they need to kill you in your sleep. They make sure worlds are sufficiently indoctrinated into the Imperial Cult before letting them join the Imperium.

Many parts of the canon Sororitas are unworkable for a variety of reasons, including the Imperium being more reasonable (and not putting all of its power in the hands of one organization) and Oscar still walking around. Oscar, not to mention most of the Imperium, would take one look at a penitent engine and put it in the same trashbasket as the arco-flagellants and the Butcher’s nails. At best keeping a copy of the schematics in Mars and Ganymede so that someone would know what to do with them if another copy popped up. If the canon Emperor (even accounting for his characterization in recent HH novels) were to see the Sororitas and the Ecclesiarchy he would have a conniption, let alone the more laid back and tolerant Oscar.

>>57920085
The non-militant orders come from Dark Heresy.

>>57924021 (cont.)
If the Securitas exist to provide oversight and internal security and put down rebellions, then it's hard to justify many of the non-militant orders. These stick out to different degrees.

The Dialogous sticks out the most and would be the easiest to deal with. In canon there is already an organization that performs the same function, the Iterators, which was phased out during the Great Crusade when it was realized the easiest way to get a world to join you was to put a gun to their head, and then brought back in a different form after the Age of Apostasy. In an Imperium that is more reasonable, not to mention one that has numerous semi-autonomous Survivor civilizations, deals with a regular basis with independent polities like Trazyn and the shattered Tarellian confederacy, and has the Reconquista in M33-34, it makes sense that they would still be around like the Remembrancers. It also makes no sense that an organization founded to maintain internal security would also control the Imperium’s diplomats. At least in the case of the Famulous and Hospitaliers you could make justifications for why they are extensions of the Sororitas.

In canon the Dialogous are part of the SoB because the Ecclesiarchy is a big sprawling like the Vatican and there is a need to curate holy documents and relics, and even then there's no reason for them to be Sisters of Battle (even canon points out they rarely fight and overlap with the Inquisition on the areas they do).

>>57924119
The Famulous have a bit more of an option for justification. The Securitas exist to provide internal security. That includes making sure the ruling power on many planets don't fuck things up. Official Imperial bodyguards are a good idea for someone whose death could cause a sector to go into disarray. Still doesn't explain why the Sisters would be playing nursemaid in this timeline.

>>57909540
It could be that the Famulous are weird because they are a mixed bag organization. They bring on Sororitas because Sororitas make good bodyguards (and it's a good use for Sororitas who can't follow the warpath). They bring on AdBio because the AdBio are good at fixing inbreeding issues. They bring on individuals that aren't trained in the Sororitas fashion but still focused on maintaining stability and acting as a weird combination of nanny and manipulator, making sure the kids grow up right and those that don't do not get into power.

>>57924119 (cont.)
>>57924314 (cont.)
The Hospitaliers are the easiest, because in this case we can just steal from history with the real Hospitaliers (and possibly the Red Cross). Some venerated Sister decides there has to be a better way to provide stability for the Imperium than suppressing rebellions and decides to focus on humanitarian efforts and treating the wounded (happy, healthy, and well-fed people are less likely to go to Chaos). Retain close connections with the militant Sisters and a lot of crippled Sisters who want to serve but can no longer fight end up there. Anyone can join because fighting isn't an issue, but they tend to associate themselves with the Sororitas because their founder was a Sister. They don't outright replace doctors but are more of a battlefield medic/humanitarian aid group, so you don't get the weird issue of "Wait, so all doctors in the Imperium are women? On all the worlds with all the myriad customs and social organizations. What does a male with talent in medicine do?"

It also fixes the long-term issue with the Valkyries. Branch of the Hospitaliers that became endemic to the Fenrisian worlds and re-adopted more militant tactics as first responders.

At least, that would be my suggestion to try to keep as much of canon as possible while keeping in mind the Imperium isn't run by an all-powerful theocracy.

Extra bump.

>>57910942
How does the Codex handle the increased and fluctuating numbers of Astartes? Do they make more companies as needed or do they just increase the size of pre-existing ones. If it's the former then it would make it easy for Chapters to split when they get too large, but if it's the latter it would be easier organization for chapters where each company has a certain specialty.

In the Great Crusade in canon the Legions had special reconnaissance squads that were made of full-fledged Astartes who specialized in that job, and I don't think they had specialized Scout squads. So what you're saying about Scouts makes sense in this timeline given that the chapters aren't using their new recruits as bullet shields and know the value of stealth despite their normal job of being human tanks.

>>57926455
Same way as it handles guard regiments. If they get slapped down so hard and enough of their commanding officers killed then the survivors are placed in the smallest functioning company.

If there are enough companies with enough extra dudes above the usual limit then they scrape off the excess and form them into a new/re-found and old company.

>>57924503
How many Valkyries should there be per colony world?

>>57928590
Given that they typically recruit from low population frozen worlds probably not that many.

A few hundred per colony world plus Fenris feels about right.

Per head of the population Fenrisians have way more super-soldiers than any other group in the Imperium but given their overall numbers it's not a super huge amount.

Plus it actually gives them some clout in their newly restarted open grudge match with the Olamic Quietude.

Also we need moar on the Olamic Quietude. They look like such good villain potential. A sort of dark twin of Elmo and Stillness.

>>57926455
>>57910942
It should also be kept in mind that the Ultramarines don't have to be 100% codex adherent. Codex was never meant to be the be all and end all of Space Marine warfare and given how Guilliman was around a lot longer to explain this and revise his work as needed it would probably not be followed as dogmatically. Genesis Chapter being exceptional in that is does go Always Codex, All The Time!

They and maybe others might also have held the opinion that Ultramarines are not Imperial as they were gifted to Ultramar and are therefore of questionable legitimacy as the primary holder of the old Legions honours, especially with the Rebuilding the Wall law. This would be further compounded by Regent Titus' recent actions and the belief that no man should command 2 Legions worth of super soldiers and associated assets to say nothing of this looking like a potential opening move to take control of Ultramar from the civilian government.

So the more uppity lesser children of Legion XIII are wanting to effectively kick the Ultramarines out of their club and the more ambitious of the Chapter Masters are vying for position to get hold of the title.

The only other chapter where this is kind of happening is the Carcharodons sort of taking over from the Night Lords as head of the VIIIth because there's more of them, people dislike them less, they operate closer in style to a traditional Legion and they have the Nicor. Also Master Sevatarion is indifferent to the notion of "Legions". His methods of warfare don't translate well onto that scale.

>>57913683
Void Dragon does seem to care about people and their wellbeing beyond entertainment value. That was the attitude that got him put in the box in the first place.

>>57929372
I would assume the colony worlds might have a bit more due to higher population since the climate is (slightly) less nasty and there aren't as many horrible beasts and mutated humans running around. Space Denmark or Space Iceland to Fenris' Space Norway/Vikings.

Raises the question if anyone has tried to take the Fenrisian wolves off Fenris. They are regarded as symbols of importance and Fenrisian culture like eagles are for many modern countries or phoenixes are for Eldar. On the other hand, they managed to be an invasive species on Fenris.

>>57932460
A domesticated invasive species that make great pets.

>>57932559
That's true. It would be like having a trained grizzly with the brain of a gorilla or parrot or small child.

>>57930009
>Codex organization
Still, if the codex is the general guide and people pick and choose from it, it would be nice to know what the codex recommends since a lot of chapters will take it as the Standard option.

>They and maybe others might also have held the opinion that Ultramarines are not Imperial as they were gifted to Ultramar and are therefore of questionable legitimacy as the primary holder of the old Legions honours, especially with the Rebuilding the Wall law.

Novamarines wouldn't have a leg to stand on since they also operate within Ultramar. But there are a lot of non-Ultramar Ultramarine descendants around and they might want to use their weight to get one of the "more reasonable" (in their opinion) chapters to get the title of first among equals because clearly Titus is on the same crazy train as Huron.

>>57935367
How many Chapters are based in Ultramar?

>>57934161
How smart ate they? Can they open doors?

>>57935939
Ultramar is said to have five hundred worlds in canon at the time that Guilliman was found by the Emperor. Lorgar burned one hundred of them (and did his best to do more to others like Calth) in his little hissy fit because he didn't want Guilliman to have nice things. Then Guilliman cut a bunch of the worlds go after the Heresy. Then the tyranids ate a bunch of them, like Sotha, Iax, and Prandium.

Despite this, Ultramar still has multiple Space Marine chapters in canon (Scythes of the Emperor coming to mind). Additionally, Ultramar got hit a lot less hard during the War of the Beast because it wasn't in Lorgar's crosshairs. Calth isn't a shithole for one. There's probably some epic story about the battle for Ultramar with the proto-Charadon empire, but it's never been told. Given Ultramar is a Survivor civilization it probably still has several hundred worlds in it. Most of the planets that Guilliman gave off to the Ultramarine companies as feudal fiefs probably stayed with Ultramar.

Given that there are ~10 Million marines arranged into chapters mostly 2500 strong, there are probably about 4000 Chapter Homeworlds in this timeline. Divide by the million world estimate thrown around for the Imperium and multiply that by 500 worlds and you get...2. I'd assume this estimate is probably wrong given there is evidence of multiple chapters in the 50-60 strong Realm of Ultramar in canon.

Interestingly Nuceria is one of the worlds of Ultramar (and the one no one else liked), but still got wrecked in this timeline after Angron went full Nam Dog on it.

>>57937761
Looking at the 1d4chan fluff, no one really knows. It's clear they're more intelligent than dolphins or chimpanzees, but the upper limits are not clear. They may be limited in their ability to communicate because they don't have vocal chords that can make human sounds or hands that could be taught sign language. They're clearly more amenable to training than Primeval Beastmen.

>>57938188
>Given Ultramar is a Survivor civilization it probably still has several hundred worlds in it.
I've always been under the assumption that the main/only hurdle to be considered a Survivor Civilization is to have a interstellar travel capable fleet. This includes civilizations that had lost and rediscovered FTL tech up to interstellar societies like Ultramar or the Interex that stand as civilizations going back to Old night. Savlar was a border case because while it had one or two nominally warp capable ships they were definitely too run down to get anywhere, and Savlar barely constituted civilization. This would probably lead to interesting diplomatic scenarios with rivalries in prestige between ancient Survivor civs and ones that were essentially refounded and rose again in Old Night. You would also have situations where societies that were close to implementing warp ftl but were contacted before the had their own fleets have periods of adjustment under Administratum governance, or even relatively advanced human star systems that had shied away from warp tech and developed in other ways instead in their isolation, much like Stillness.

All of this is to say that yes, Ultramar would have several hundred worlds within its dominion, but that has no causal relationship with it being a Survivor civ.

>>57939063
Yeah, whether or not you have space travel seems to be the defining feature of being a Survivor Civilization. Colchis and Necromunda had space travel but never felt the need to leave their home system.

The point I was trying to make was more the Imperium wouldn't dismantle and cannibalize Ultramar in this timeline because it would be seen as a semi-autonomous member state who has a right to its own territories rather than Guilliman's personal playground where a near-rebellion was almost set (Imperium Secundus).

>>57938188
How many know of the origins of the Fenrisian wolves?

>>57940370
It's not common knowledge. A lot of Fenrisians exalt the Fenrisian wolf as being the most "noble" and "human-like" of beasts, completely unaware of the fact that they're that way because they are abhumans, not animals.

Their origins would have been slightly better known during the Great Crusade, because Russ' experiments on Fenris and their...side effects were a big scandal when they got out and Russ considered the Fenrisian wolves to be his greatest failure. Leman Russ had two Fenrisian wolves named Freki and Geri that followed him around. It's probably not a good idea to think too hard on where he got them from.

The AdBio know what they are, so that implies that the Imperium knows on at least some level. They want to try doing to the Fenrisian wolves what they did to the Beastmen but they're afraid any genetic retrovirus they try will blow back onto the Space Wolves and the people on Fenris, especially if it's based on the same genetic markers the Canis Helix uses for stability.

>>57940648
That of course discounts the AdBio that think the Fenrisian Wolves are an amazing species/abhuman strain in their own right, and think they should be uplifted from their current state rather than 'regressed', and have interesting proposals for other sorts of advanced abhumanism could be devised along similar lines.

>>57941359
That may very well be the intention. Fenrisian wolves are Kodiak bear-sized at adulthood, and given their weight they weigh about one and a half times as much as an Astartes unarmored (1000 kg versus 6-700 kg). Can you imagine if you could uplift that?

Looking back at the written stuff, it looks like Leman Russ did cover up quite a bit about what happened on Fenris. There was a bit of an issue when it came out but when asked about it Leman told the Steward that the failure rate as being "well within acceptable parameters.

Of course, this likely meant that by that point people weren't turning into monsters and he had a stable variant working. And the Steward would probably notice there were wolf-creatures where no wolf-creatures had ever been recorded.

On the subject of intelligence, it hit me that the original Fenrisian wolves had to be smart enough that they were able to avoid being euthanized and escape. Most of the Fenrisian wolves through history were tamed from the feral population after all, except possibly the two Russ had following him around.

>>57938188
Well, Space Marine chapters aren’t evenly spread out over the Imperium in our reasonable AU. There are almost no Fortress Monasteries on feral or death worlds because they don’t recruit from pre-teen barbarians anymore, and because a Fortress Monastery is an incredible valuable defensive asset in its own right and would be wasted on protecting a bunch of tribes banging rocks together. Rare exceptions would include some of the First Founding chapters since some of the Primarchs set up shop intentionally in isolated areas to have more autonomy (like Russ or Khan), but most chapters are going to be on civilized or hive worlds. We’ve mentioned that Armageddon is important/under attack enough to have 3 chapters, and Cadia probably has that many as well in addition to the Praeses chapters that guard the Eye.

>>57942873
Given that body weight for Fenrisian wolves, there’s no way they could carry an armored SM in their back. It’s recommended that horses not be loaded with more than 20% of their body weight on their back, and even if the wolves are stockier/engineered, they’re not going to get close to carrying a SM’s fat ass.

I personally think this is a good thing, because getting rid of the retarded wolf cavalry cuts down on the wolfy wolfness of canon Space Wolves fluff.

>>57944285
Agreeing with the statements in this post, it would make sense for Chapters to be close to where need is most anticipated for them.

>>57941359
There's room for both ideas in the AdBio. It's a source of internal division whilst still neither will ever get to enact any plan.

You know I was thinking if we want a case of more benevolent action by Ferrus the Age of Apostasy might be a good idea. Both of the other surviving primarchs did their best to keep things from devolving into war during that time. Vulkan used his power to try to keep the peace in the Imperium until war broke out. Magnus was dealing with a certain daemon prince.

Fabricator-General at this time could have been deliberately staying neutral. So many different opinions during the Civil War that supporting one side would lead to another schism within the Mechanicius (though you'd think there would have been a Fabricator-General at some point who wasn't a total ass other than the first one). Vandire doesn't push his luck. He's crazy enough to attack the Harlequins, but he's not crazy enough to incur the wrath of the AdMech, not as long as they'll still provide him with goods.

During this time Ferrus Manus decides to take the initiative and is seen bringing a lot of Mechanicus ships to a little nowhere world called Sarpedon. It's an AdMech research world, but its not heavily urbanized and is only a research world because it is far away from everything else and if it were to blow up no one would care.

Vandire's people ask what's going on there. Ferrus responds it's a top secret AdMech research site so piss off, though not in so many words. He even tells the Steward this when he asks him, until the war is over.

>>57947711
Turns out Ferrus had been smuggling dissidents and likely targets of Vandire out of major population centers through places like Orioc and forge worlds for years. Because baseline humans can't live in a factorum so Sarpedon was the best option for a refugee camp. Telling the Steward what was there would have endangered the refugees lives because he would have insisted on reinforcing it, so it had to wait until the war was over. No one fucks with the AdMech unless you have Oscar-grade brass balls. AdMech have more freedom to do what they want within their own walls than any other group in the Imperium, so it was easy to smuggle people out without questions being asked. When asked about it he said they were all productive individuals whose actions benefitted the Imperium and their loss would decrease Imperial efficiency, as if it was self-evident.

Though we really need more fleshing out of the Vandire side of the equation for the Imperial Civil War. It's really easy to just paint Vandire and his followers as cackling lunatics given the fluff (though he was noted as a good ruler until the pressure got to him), which raises the question of why people would follow him and why the entire galaxy didn't unite against him. We do say that Vandire was technically the lawfully appointed ruler and the sides in the war boiled down to whether it is better to be lawful and follow an increasingly unjust ruler or be unlawful and rise up against a lawfully appointed tyrant.

If it were just the nuts who followed him the Imperial Civil War would "only" be as bad as Fyodor, rather than an event which saw one half of the Imperium turn against the other.

>>57945354
Agreeing with the agreements. The Inperium is always going to put more chapters where they're the most needed. The immediate region around the Eye including Cadia and Ulthwé would have a ton (we mention three, Black Legion, some descendant of Fists, and some descendant of Word Bearers). Armageddon would be another hotspot. Ultramar might have a lot because it's out on the fringe where it's hard to get reinforcements and they also have to be ready to help out the Tarellians and the Tau if need be.

Of course Titus has seen that even that hotspot is, if anything, a gross underestimate of what is needed.

Baal's neck of the woods, assuming Baal is in the same place (did we move it because Necrons?) would probably have the lowest density because that's where the Imperium has the least population.

>>57947808
Huh, funny this is coming up again, editfag (RIP, come back pls) and I had a brief exchange about this way back in thread 9. We never settled anything and no one else chimed in, but my main objection was that there needed to be a more compelling reason for people to follow Vandire other than blind obedience for thematic coherence.

>>57948332

I propose we take it out from history: a lunatic, all right, but an extremely charismatic one that can sway entire sectors with his words alone. He set out a... noble ideal: the protection and safety and prosperity of the Imperium no matter the cost (along with a power grab in the process). The more radical and strong-handed elements may see him as someone with the right idea and willing to get his hand dirty while the more idealistic ones may see him as a growing tyrant.

Aka Spesh Stalin, Mao and Hitler all roll into one.

>>57948612
Keep in mind that he was actually good at it. His failing wasn't competence, it was creeping megalomania and paranoia. He was fine when he got the job.

>>57947903
Cadia would/should only have one chapte as it's basically just garrison duty. Just make chapter bigger.

>>57949430
I remenber that beyond his psycopatia Stalin was a great burocrat.

>>57947903
Baal still has the Blood Angels.

What should the planet Baal actually be like? I can't see them allowing it be all Full Mad Max All The Time in the Nobledarkness, that shit would be wasteful.

If we have to have it still be a recovering post-war wasteland by 999M41 then it should be due to some sort of more recent war.

Given that Sangy fucked up a lot of deamons during he Siege of Old Earth there wouldn't be a shortage of lesser entities all perfectly willing to put aside their differences and go fuck his children up.

>>57947808
There was also talk of Vulkan, by then in his twilight years, attempting to mitigate sa much of the damage as possible whilst orchestrating as bloodless a coup as possible. He didn't want there to be a civil war because of the outside threats that would certainly take advantage of the situation as well as a lingering suspicion that the elder would make a power grab in the aftermath.

So he was moving his Promethean Agents into positions of importance where he could try and vote the man and his supporters out whilst maintaining the integrity of the Imperium and not have a whole lot of people die.

Sadly he didn't feel that he could totally trust the other two surviving primarchs or very much anyone else of similar authority as it would be all too easy for everything to unravel. So with nobody knowing what he was doing all that effort went to waste when Thor's hand was forced and Civil War happened anyway.

Then Oscar came back in full power armour looking like he was Warlord again.

>>57950591
Baal was an uninhabited rockball in this timeline. Blood Angels moved there and named the planet after their primarch (which is the explanation for why the two had the same name) before turning it into Space Station Sanguinius. They recruit from the nearby worlds, and to be fair it's not like there are any shortage of recruits. It is the Blood Angels after all.

At least, that's what I could remember. There was some other stuff in an old thread.

>>57948332
I 'member. That's why we had the Steward only show up in the last few months, and his "contribution" to the civil war was basically him steaming across the galaxy to ask why is the Imperium in civil war and show up just in time for the fight in Sol. And even then he was trailing behind Thor.

>>57948612
That's a start. Oscar needed a lot of charisma to do the job before, it's likely he'd see that a successor had to (Sanguinius did as well, with fits with the "was planning to give him the throne until the Beast decided to make a wish using Sangy's wishbone). Vandire was said to be a legitimately nice guy before he went mad (basically we swapped canon Vandire for canon Drakan Vangorich). He could have been good at convincing people that atrocities were justified (because look at all this [fabricated] evidence) or for the greater good.

Is it still Ka'Bandha, greater deamon of Khorne, that is troubling the Blood Angels and Baal in this AU?

Not being able to go after Sanguinius he could instead be wanting to exterminate his people. The Jermanics aren't an option on Old Earth for no longer thinking of themselves as an independent nation and also not having the ability to assault Old Earth meaningfully.

Baal on the other hand is the promised land of the Duscht Jemanic pilgrims in the post-WotB and they absolutely do see themselves as a direct continuation of that nation. To that end Ka'Bandha leads the repeated unholy assaults on Baal in an attempt to genocide the population.

Was Ka'Bandhathe deamon Sangy tore in half at the Eternity Gate? If not change Ka'Bandhato that deamon because damn, bitch got ownd.

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>>57952723
It was Ka'bandha. I could see that. Ka'bandha is salty and isn't able to get his revenge on Sanguinius, so he takes it out on Baal. Not a lot, because it's hard for Ka'bandha to manifest, but he's done it like eight times.

One time he got his ass kicked by Azkaellon I mean the Sanguinor supercharged on psychic juice from the WAAAGH! effect (everyone believed he was Sanguinius come back from the dead). Another time he picked a fight with a bunch of the Silent King's Necrons because no one else is touching Baal but him.

>>57953328
This being the 8th attempt would have numerical significance and therefore a reason to be the biggest one yet.

As of 999M41 it's status should be ongoing much like the most recent war for Armageddon.

>>57953328
>>57953877
Is eight too much? If we have a bunch of failed attempts over and over it raises the same question as to Ka'bandha's competence since he couldn't succeed once in ten millenia in the same way Abbadon the Armless is in canon. Even if one was resolved by Deus Ex Sanguinor and another was less an attack and more "hold that thought, I'll get back to you, I have to go pound some skeletons first".

At least with Doombreed we said he wasn't able to remanifest until feeding off the tyranny of Vandire's government during the Age of Apostasy.

>>57954957
There could have been a Chaos Occupation where the Blood Angels became for a few centuries Angels in Exile, the people of Bssl driven into the mountains and wastelands whilst chaos mutants roam freely and ruin their cities and make barren their fields.

Then Blood Angels scrape together a force and come in to administer an arse kicking of biblical proportions.

That's two of wars accounted for

>>57951686
Could be a source of disagreement between Oscar and Vulkan.

Vulkan be all like "dude, I had this covered , things were in place and ready to move".

Oscar was all luke "how many more had to die before you were ready?"

>>57948332
>>57948612
>>57949430
>>57949712
>>57951686
>>57952636
The one thing to worry about is making sure the Imperial Civil War doesn't turn into the Horus Heresy six millenia late. Civil wars are rarely pretty, and they leave long lasting scars. In the U.S. Civil War, people remained salty over the outcome of the war for generations and the Southern economy didn't recover until the 1980s-1990s. What happened with the English Civil War or the Chinese Three Kingdoms period? From what little I know of them those seem like better analogues to the Imperial civil war than the U.S. one (especially due to having powerful autocrat figures that the people got fed up with, Vandire sounds a lot like Dong Zhuo or to a lesser extent Charles I with more insanity instead of a belief in divine right). A lot of civil wars (e.g., Russian Civil War, French Revolution) end up with the opposing faction persecuted into oblivion.

And that's in a society that doesn't have to worry about being jumped by rape-elves every hour of every day. It was suggested that Chaos tried to capitalize on the Imperial Civil War by launching a Black Crusade right after, and the common threat helped speed up the recovery process like the Spanish-American war did for the U.S.

>>57957151 (cont.)
At least in the case of the Imperial Civil War there was a technically third party figure (the Steward) that both sides saw as an authority figure. The fact that the Vandire supporters mostly backed down when Oscar showed up and said "if we had known you didn't approve of this we would have stopped immediately, which would have helped a lot to blunt the worst of the long-term tensions. There would be a few rabid hard-core Vandire supporters, but picking a fight with a Man of Gold, the avatar of a goddess, and ninety percent of the Imperium (Thor's side plus the Vandire supporters who backed down) is generally considered bad for your health. They would be the "faction hunted to oblivion" aside from the Children of the First Emperor.

The fact that the Imperium doesn't seem to care that much about the dividing lines during the Civil War may be the benefit of hindsight though, seeing as more time has passed between the Imperial Civil War and today than we are from the erection of Stonehenge. To most people, human and eldar, the Civil War was something that happened a long time ago.

>>57953877
Just realized something. If Khorne's sacred number is 8 and Chaos in general's sacred number is 8, it would give ol' Khorne Flakes another reason to claim why he is the rightful ruler of Chaos and the galaxy.

>>57957151
>>57957169
There is and example in the Traveller OTU that may give us a general idea of the scope of the civil war.

During a period of unrest several admirals took the throne in a succession of coups. the fights were always low key and distant. From the point of wiev of the citicens nothing really change.

So in the Imperium pass the same, Vandire suporters and rebels don´t want really to destroy the land. Gore is mad but his men no. So the fights end beign low key. When a side come asking resources. The local gobernor say "Of course, Of course" and wish to this guys to just left then alone. The adepta are more or less crippled in inaction. So the conflicts take time to hold momentum. Those in the crossfire retire and do their job. But it push the Imperium in the limit.

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Putting together a 2000pt 'Nid list.

How does:

HQ:

>Hive Tyrant (203pts): Wings, 2x Devourers, Adrenal Glands
>Tervigon (249pts): Adrenal Glands, Scything Talons, Stinger Salvo, Toxin Sacs

Troops:

>30 Termagaunts (160pts):20x Fleshborer, 10x Devourers
>30 Termagaunts (160pts):20x Fleshborer, 10x Devourers
>30 Termagaunts (200pts):10x Fleshborer, 20x Devourers
>3 Warriors (101pts): Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Rending Claws, 1x Boneswords, 1x Bonesword & Whip
>3 Warriors (81pts): Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Rending Claws, Talons

Elite:

>3 Venomthropes (90pts)

Fast Attack:

>6 Raveners (150pts): Rending Claws

Heavy Support

>3 Screamer Killers(330pts): Adrenal Glands
>1 Trygon Prime (211pts): Adrenal Glands, Biostatic Rattle, Toxin Sacs

Total: 1935pts

look?

I only have about half the models, planning on buying more over the next couple of weeks, and obviously there's still some space in this list for switching things around. It's currently a Battalion Detachment.

Thanks.

>>57957793
Uhh..What?

>>57957793
Wrong thread possibly?

>>57958291
wrong thread indeed

>>57942873
Would the Fenrisians have taken their wolves to the colony worlds?

>>57959172
That was the question asked by >>57932460. Fenrisian wolves are a status symbol, but if they can seriously disrupt the ecosystem on Fenris and knock ice trolls off the spot of top predator you can probably say bye bye to an ecosystem if they went feral. Unless it's already fucked up with feral grox. Or it's Catachan.

>>57949604
One would think if any world had more than one chapter it would be Cadia. Cadia is just about the most important system for the Imperium to hold, save for Sol itself. Even more than Armageddon. If Armageddon falls the Orks have a staging ground for assaulting Earth. If Cadia falls Chaos has free reign to enter and exit realspace as they please. There's a reason half of Malys' crusade budget tends to be for stalling Cadia while the other half slip through.

I think Black Legion is fleet-based. They don't live on Cadia, they just recruit from it. Black Legion seems to be the elite boarding and shock troops of the Astartes Praeses.

Since Space Marines are typically off doing Space Marines things, Cadia would not necessarily be a garrison duty. It would mean that there are always Astartes present there, though.

Also did we ever decide if the Raptors idea (Raven Guard, scholars as well as tacticians, good with ambush tactics, ties with Tau Empire) was good enough as a rough concept?

>>57961474
Well between the fleet based chapters and the planetary chapters there are at least a few constantly in the system, if not on the world all at once.

Lion and the Avatar of Khorne stories are up.

>>57963131
Since the Space Wolves have official successor chapters in this timeline, I would suggest the Wolf Brothers are one of the Astartes Praeses, unless the Dark Wolves were originally the Wolf Brothers.

That said, they might have trouble recruiting. The only world I can find near the Eye that fits the description of a Fenrisian world in climate is Hubris, which is notable for being even worse than Fenris (the population spends over a third of the year in cryo because it gets so cold and hostile). I have no clue if anything even lives there.

Also Macharia (Machairius' homeworld that was renamed when he died in canon) should probably be moved out of the Cadian system. Canon says it's a hive world in the middle of a bunch of fortress worlds. There's no way Chaos would wait until the 13th Black Crusade to realize it is the (relatively) least defended and most target-rich environment.

Bump

>>57961474
In the previous thread(s), the reaction to the idea of the Raptors being practical, sneeki-breeki tacticians (who like to philosophize on the side) descending from the Raven Guard seemed positive, but most of the posts around the time seem to have been focused on the complicated issues with the Adepta Securitas and their equipment at the time. A lot of the new Sororitas stuff seems a little rough and unpolished as is, although that isn't to say they didn't have good ideas.

A blurb (not mine) was also written in the previous thread for the Raptors on why a Chapter of Space Marines being all a Crusade needs to conquer a planet is an exaggerated tale/outright myth, which helps sell the whole scholarly and strategist aspect.

>>57963631
Agree with the thoughts about Macharia being low-hanging fruit for Chaos, are there neighboring systems it could be relocated to? The other alternative is that it started off as a highly militarized Hive World, that the Administratum and local Governor decided to convert into a Fortress World after one too many Black Crusades by Malys and co. Would it get wiped out by Erebus' Chariot Of The Gods, or the Planet Killer, as it is colloquially known?

>>57967520
A lot of the ideas had promise. I just hope we didn't scare the new people off.

There are a lot of worlds around the Eye it could be relocated to. Agrippina and Belis Corona are two areas near the Eye that tend to back up Cadia.

Hive World Macharia being blown up unceremoniously by Erebus in one shot could be a good "uh, shit" moment. Though it would be likely Erebus has no clue how to work the thing and was doing something like randomly pressing buttons, the only one who does is likely Be'lakor and he'd either say it wasn't his area of expertise or only tell Erebus how to use the cupholders (of DOOM) as a token of thanks for some boon. Erebus mostly seems to use the Chariot as a pimp ship and it's likely it's "only" about as dangerous as the Tomb of Horus.

Belis Corona is also said to be a dead world. It could be dead in the sense that Luna is dead, but it could be Chaos got to it and razed it to the ground during one of the Black Crusades. The Imperiun rebuilt the facilities for the fleet surrounding the Eye on it because they're too stubborn to let that stop them.

Both would be good victories for Chaos, especially since those worlds would likely see the worst of the fighting.

It doesn't make sense for Cadia to be extensively settled and would diminish the role of Cadia.

>>57968803
Indeed, Cadia is a fortress world uterly dedicated to batte chaos

>>57963631
Skyrar's Dark Wolves were a WotB era breakaway faction that fell to Chaos. Skyrar was one of Russ's old friends from the old days. Given the abilities of Chaod he could still be around.

>>57968803
Cadia seems to be as extensively settled as Armageddon. Only instead of five huge hive cities and a small population of outriders you have the population divided up into a bunch of Kasr. Even that might be a bit much though the population of either planet has never been given in canon.

They perform a similar job too, "fight Chaos" versus "keep the Orks off the planet".

The only reason Cadia doesn't recruit in canon is Astartes home worlds don't have to provide IG regiments since they already provide soldiers. If feral worlds that have populations in the millions can support the needs of an Astartes chapter, it's likely Cadia could. If Cadia has more than average chapters hanging around it's not because it's urbanized but because Cadia is disproportionately militarized relative to the rest of the Imperium.

>>57971225
Cadias numbers would fluctuate a lot. In longer times of relative peace they might be in the tens of billions. Just post Black Crusade there might be half a billion.

>>57961259
It also depends on how fast they breed. Given their apex predator status probably not too fast and given their nature stillbirth might be a problem.

>>57967801
I'm all formthem being nearby systems but Cadia should be alone in the Cadia system to ad emphasis on their seige.

>>57973319
Fenris is probably a place where even at the top of the food chain you can get screwed over. Giant elk and mammoths can easily kill an overconfident predator and drakes and ice trolls kill as many Fenrisian wolves as the Fenrisian wolves kill them, like lions and hyenas in Africa.

Fenrisian wolves kind of remind me of dingos. Presence on their native land is essentially man-made, went feral, ended up achieving a balance in local ecosystem, but have a much easier time being tamed and re-assimilating into domestic life because they were once domesticated/human. Some of the statements some Aborigine tribes say about dingo sound almost exactly like what the Fenrisians would say about their wolves.

>>57974352
It also wouldn't make sense given the origins of Cadia if multiple planets in the system were inhabitable. You'd think the Imperium would have noticed that or all of the planets would have had stone age hunter-gatherers. It'd be more likely the other worlds are like the Sol System but without Dark Age terraforming. Just extensions of Cadia for resources and military purposes like some of the other worlds on Armageddon.

In canon in addition to Cadia the Cadian system has one hive world, three additional fortress worlds, and a munitions world. There isn't much fluff surrounding any of them bar Macharia (the hive world) and it's not clear why Cadia is seen as so important when there are other fortress worlds (besides the pylons, which the Imperium didn't know about in canon until recently).

The only thing is what stops Cadia from getting shitstomped in every Black Crusade following the first? As in, not just overwhelmed so they can't stop the rest of the Crusade from going past, but actually overtaken. The nature of most foes in 40k mean that momentum is always with the attacker, as reinforcements generally take a long time to respond or just plain don't get the memo (Shadow in the Warp). If there is at best one Astartes chapter and no reliable backup, what stops Malys from simply burning Cadia to the ground via conventional forces (we know Qlippoths and typical exterminatus methods don't work) and holding it? Cadia could hold out for a while but without reinforcements from somewhere (Agrippina or Ulthwé are likely candidates) they will lose, hard. The Crones have more forces they can throw at Cadia than there are Cadians, the advantage of the Gate is you can pile up several sytem's worth of forces there and win because it's a chokepoint.

>>57974644
Meant to say with the additional worlds in canon there's no reason for Cadia to have them in this timeline and they don't have much fluff worth worrying about beyond Macharia, which was the obvious weak link and we discussed moving to another nearby system.

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Happy Valentine's Day from /W3/

>>57974644
>>57974673
Given the importance of Cadia I imagine that there is a constant stream of message boats going back and forth with any interruption investigated. Given the demand for Navigators always exceeding the supply this is obviously far to expensive to do for every world and most of the very important ones already have enough traffic that it amounts to the same.

Reinforcements are never more than a few months away and Cadia ie built to last longer than a few months. They have dug very deep.

>>57864725
The more and more that Cassius gets mentioned the more and more he seems to be turning into Brian Blessed, Pontifex Maximus.

>>57974644
Permanently holding Cadia may be on Malys' Black Crusade to do list. Malys to do list may look like the following…

To Do List: (written in fancy, aristocratic handwriting)
KILL THE GOLDEN ANATHEMA (the handwriting for this entry is substantially more deranged, and appears to be written in someone’s blood)
Capture/kill the Avatar of Isha (haven’t decided which –Aurelia)
Keep Nimina from cocking everything up once we actually get our hands on Isha
Find the Imperium’s dick of a farseer and ram Drach’nyen up his ass [sic]
Capture and hold Cadia (working on it –Aurelia)
Burn down Belis Corona (crossed out, accomplished)
Burn down Macharia (crossed out, changed to “thank Erebus for burning down Macharia for me”)
Stop by and take a picture next to the mon-keigh machines with As-dorable
Steal one of the mon-keigh machines on Medusa
Stop Arrotyr from wrecking everything (will be very tricky –Aurelia)
Find out what’s buried in the Gothic Sector (crossed out, accomplished)
Invade Sol system and burn mon-keigh homeworld to the bedrock (note to self, promised Luther area that was once Franj –Aurelia)
Stop by Saturn and take picture next to moon palaces with As-dorable
Burn Prospero (crossed out and annotated with accomplished. And then “ha ha ha ha” in demented goblin script)
Invade Ultramar, find out what this “gelato” is
Invade Savlar, find drugs
Destroy five major craftworlds and convert or kill heretics within
Pick up milk (unsure what this is supposed to refer to, probably best not to know)

>>57864725
>>57977733
I can almost see it now...

Cassius was reading a letter sent to him from a chaplain of the Novamarines when he heard the doors to his personal chambers open and saw Mira come in. The Cadian had come to him the other day asking about the best way to try to get through to Titus. Hera bless his heart, he was a good boy, but he had absolutely no clue how to deal with women. And given that Cassius was one of the worldiest of the Ultramarines and was the most familiar with dealing with personal issues, he was probably the best person to ask. Better than someone like Tigurius, who would have meant well but probably given the wrong advice, or Sicarius who was…well, Sicarius.

“Ah, Mira,” he said, “I was just about to go looking for you. How did things go?”

Mira immediately stood ramrod straight and at attention, which Cassius suspected was the typical Cadian response to giving personally embarrassing information as impersonally and objectively as possible to figures of respect.

“My objectives were successful,” she said laconically, face red, “Took Titus dancing. There were no bodies.”

“Mira, you realize that this could be taken to mean that either no one got hurt or that there wasn’t enough left to bury if they did. So which was it?

“There were no bodies,” Mira repeated, completely straightfaced.

>>57955308
Three. There is one ongoing.

The first one would be not long after they set up on Baal some time before the 1st Black Crusade. Just arriving and setting up the deamons thought they would be easy to wipe out, they were wrong.

The Occupation and Unoccupation should be the 6th and 7th so as to have the planet be by 999M41 still inhabited with Chaos mutants and Mad Max + Fallout shit in the wilder regions.

So that just leaves us with 4 to spread out over ~8 thousand years between now and then.

1 should be in the reign of Vandire and prevented the Blood Angels from helping Thor and divided the Blood Angels descendants between the two catastrophies, loyalty to Imperium vs loyalty to Sangy's memory.

Not sure about the others.

1 during the Harrowing?

>>57980339
>1 during the Harrowing?
You'd think Ka'bandha would have better things to do during that time period when the Materium, and by extension the Immaterium, was threatened. Though Ka'bandha's sense of timing has always been shitty.

There would have been one post M40 when Ka'Bandha went after the Silent King's forces, if we decide to have Baal in it's canon position where it's right next to the Necron Star Empire.

Having Ka'bandha stall the Blood Angels is also a good reason why the Imperium's paladins never got involved in the Civil War to the degree that other chapters did (that and the internal division). Maybe Doombreed called in a favor since the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath, where he and Magnus threw down, was so close by.

>>57980439
If it's with the Star Empire just in the early stages of waking up then it could be earlier than that.

>>57980339
>>57980439
The problem with 8 manifestations is that it’s way more than most other greater daemons, and as another anon mentioned it runs into competency issues for Ka’Bandha and how he’s managed to stay one of Khorne’s favorites despite failing a bunch. Maybe a few less? I like the idea of a Bloodthirster vs Necron throw down.

>>57976233
Yeah, Cadia is probably fortified to such a degree it would make an Imperial Fist blush. Can’t bombard it because the Kasr are super heavily shielded and everything else important is deep underground. Can’t just Planet Killer it because... reasons?

Add to that the legendary Acadian discipline and determination and maybe some healthy applications of TAKTIKUL JINYUS and you have a planet that is capable of repelling the legions of Chaos 12 times. The 13th time is looking a little dicey though...

>>57980654
World killer weapons don't work because of the pylons. Nurgle's Rot turns into normal flue, vortex missiles can't make a proper warp hole and the machine-phase metal threading through the rocks hold shit together hard.

>>57980654
Add to the fact that after the first one Malys typically just decides to tarpit Cadia and send the rest of the fleet bypassing it. The first time Malys got the band back together she lost half her fleet at Cadia and the part that did get past was pathetic compared to the success rate of later Crusades. It's the only Crusade that is chalked up by the Imperium as a "win".

It's not that Chaos couldn't beat Cadia or that Cadia only survives because Chaos decides to look elsewhere, but rather win or lose Cadia could bleed a Black Crusade a lot more than Chaos wants and Malys is smarter than to put all her eggs in one basket picking a fight with Creed and his predecessors. She's a busy woman, she has better things to do. Kaimon would be dumb/arrogant enough to try though.

>>57980474
The Star Empire didn't get aggro with the Imperium until Szarekh decided he had enough of his forces woken up to act and made the infamous "trillion subjects" demand.

Before that you had issues with Flayed Ones, the Sleep Walkers (Necrons that hadn't fully awakened yet and were running on autopilot), "renegade" Crypteks, and that one time a World Engine woke up way ahead of schedule due to a glitch in its programming in M34. Brushfire conflicts and deniable stuff but no outright military response until Szarekh could bring the hammer down.

He ran into the same problem Britain did trying to enforce order in their colonies, his forces were trickling in (via awakening) whereas his enemy had all their forces ready to go right now. So he's been waiting the last millennium engaging in a parsecs-long pissing match with the Imperium until he has enough that he thinks he can go for the deathblow.

Bump to agree with >>57980751 and >>57981221

>>57980751
The Planet Killer in this AU is a Blackstone Fortress and not just a big ship with a big fuck-off gun right? In that case, the problem with this explanation is that the Planet Killer's (and other Blackstone Fortresses) main cannon works by ripping open realspace and blasting the target with a ridiculous amount of Warp energy. If the pylons can cancel this out, then the dampening effect should be strong enough to disable psyker powers, prevent daemons from manifest, prevent ships from warping into the system, and other stuff like that. It would be like the Shadow in the Warp, and I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.

>>57981221
This is a problem shared by the canon fluff regarding Cadia and the BCs, but again this raises of the question of why Chaos tries so hard to capture Cadia if they can just go around it. In real life, a fortress is only valuable if it protects or restricts access to some strategic asset, or is substantial enough of a threat to the invading force's flanks if bypassed that it necessitates it removal. Therefore, Cadia either needs occupy such a ridiculously narrow chokepoint out of the Eye such that any passing Chaos fleets would come under attack if they tried to pass, (and that truly would be absurdly tiny in terms of space scale, it would make Thermopylae look as narrow as Siberia) or the planet must have some way to substantially threaten the Chaos' forces flanks above and beyond its usual military forces (even the more numerous chapters of the Astartes Praeses aren't going to be able to do much against an entire Black Crusade).

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>>57980654
>How many times should we have Ka'Bandha manifest? I was thinking once during the Imperial Golden Age to wreck Baal, and the Blood Angel's campaign to reclaim their world happens about 400 years later and is non-Ka'bandha related, once during the Imperial Civil War, and once in late M40 that gets put on hold to go smash Necrons. But that doesn't work if Baal is in the process of rebuilding in M41.

>healthy applications of TAKTIKUL JINYUS
Avatar of Khaine with Scout rules. Just saying.

>>57985366
>Blackstone fortress versus Cadian pylons
It might be that the amount of protection the Cadian pillars provide are proportional to how hard you hit them. Try to hit it with a huge amount of warp power or conventional kinetic energy and they ramp up and neutralize it, in order to keep the pylons in tact until someone decides to use them. The pylons are keeping reality stable while in what amounts to standby mode. They were Mag'ladroth's masterpiece after all.

In canon Abbadon couldn't fire his Blackstone Fortress at Cadia and had to kamikaze it into the planet to get stuff done, and daemons couldn't manifest en masse until the pylons were broken. But then canon power levels are wonky.

Daemons were mentioned as being an issue on Cadia before the Imperium showed up but it could be that it's still relatively hard for them to manifest, so you are "just" having daemons abduct people from the dark like Beastmen as opposed to DAEMONS! EVERY ORIFICE! like most of the Eye.

>Cadia acting as a chokepoint.
Cadia does occupy a really, really narrow chokepoint in canon. The Eye of Terror looks like a giant pizza wheel with a tiny slice taken out of it. That slice is due to Cadia.

Chaos controls Cadia it becomes the gatekeeper of who comes in and out of the Eye. Yes there are other ways in and out of the Warp (Huron pointed this out), but it's the most stable exist and the closest one to Shaa-Dome and therefore the most convenient.

>>57985712 (cont.)
So while Malys doesn't want to waste all her time with Cadia, she can't afford to completely ignore it. As long as she can smash Cadia's space fleet and keep Belis Corona and Ulthwe from replacing them, Cadia's forces are bottled up on Cadia. If she tries to completely ignore them and go past, she runs the risk of getting jumped by Cadia (which while Cadia may not win, ambushes are never fun for the ambushee), or going past and getting hit on both sides by Cadia and Belis Corona/Ulthwe. Which is going to be a problem and they may pin her long enough for a Battlefleet to come in. In canon Cadia has its' own Battlefleet, and so does Agripinaa. It's not clear how close Agripinaa or Belis Corona are to Cadia, they seem to be close given that their function is basically to back up Cadia, but they are said to be in different sectors. And I haven't heard of any planets in the Cadian sector other than those orbiting Cadia's star.

So Malys' goal with Cadia at the start of each Black Crusade is crippling Cadia so the planet can't whittle down her forces as they pass by like they did during the first one. Even if Cadia can't win they can run her forces ragged.

Getting back is easier. Cadia is set up to prevent people from getting out, not getting in. Tuska Daemon-killa is proof of that, where his WAAAGH! bum-rushed the Eye and forces on Cadia had to retreat towards the Eye to get out of his way (thankfully he was more interested in daemons than Cadia). So to get back all Malys has to do is rush Cadia, which probably hasn't recovered enough to do much to a Black Crusade who really, really wants to get home or else leave through one of the lesser holes in reality because coordination isn't as much of an issue.

>>57978336
Cassius can't rule out warp resistance being a genetic factor. Sadly Titus is not very worldly. Mira is also kind of a spaz socially. Cassisus is not a good match maker.

>>57985366

Maybe the Pylon can, as to simply put, draws and absorbs warp currents into it, sorta like a massive blackhole. Every Black Crusade that goes by simply get 'sucked' into it.

But the saturation effect gets weaker with the more warp energy there is. Maybe there is a limit of Chaos force that needs to be dump down to the Pylons before they can be... temporarily filled enough to bypass?

Pylons only getting serious if you try and throw serious warp power or Exterminatus weaponry at them seems to be partly how the work in canon.

Bump

>>57980339
How about 4?

The first one some time after BC 1, second in the Civil War, third some time after where he was successful and took over Baal (side show of BC12?) and hunted it's peoples for sport and forth a few hundred years before 999M41 in which the Blood Angels kicked him back off.

5th is ongoing.

>>57991479
Then where does Ka'bandha versus Necrons fit in?

>>57986805
So is this saying the fleet has to pass pretty close to Cadia because of the pylons, or Cadia passively destroys ships that try to go by? Because if it's the latter Malys is going to have a hard time justifying why she's going through the Cadian gate, especially to her troops (the Crones will basically go "I don't want to sacrifice myself and give up a chance to go wreck realspace, you do it") and she'd probably just take her chances with the Maelstrom.

>>57992091
Does Ka'bandha need to fight the Necrons?

In Vanilla Blood Angels fought alongside them vs 'Nids I think. They could still do that.

They could be two separate events.

Ka'bandha manifests in the real world somewhere nowhere near Baal (he does have a life outside the Blood Angels, despite the Blood Angels' opinion) and he and his followers/summoners get into a war with the 'Nids/gene-stealers. Maybe they were both trying to subvert the same society and the whole thing turned into a 'Stealer, Ka'bandha and Imperial clusterfuck. Ka'bandha won in that he and his followers killed the 'Stealers and had a damn good war.

Blood Angels fought alongside a minor Necron Noble to escape the tyranny of the Silent King. Everyone considers that a win of sorts. Silent King managed to remove the rebels from the resurrection grid so when he does eventually die it will be death everlasting, rebels are happy because removal from the grid means they can cut all links and live free and the Blood Angels got to spite the Silent King and insult his sovereignty.

>>57977922
Don't forget "rape Oscar and birth an unholy god of unspeakable horror"

>>57992451
I think the idea was more a combination of Ka'bandha fighting the tyranids in 8e and the fact that if Baal is in the same place in this timeline the Blood Angels are going to be on the Silent King's doorstep (seeing as the Star Empire occupies the space of the Sautekh, Mephrit, etc. Dynasties in canon and much of the space between), and the Silent King is going to want them off his lawn posthaste. You don't leave a world filled with elite strike commandos of your enemy within spitting distance of your core territories.

It also leads to more fights between factions that aren't "Imperium versus X", which is always good.

>>57985366
There's also the fact that if the Cadian Pylons is keeping the Eye itself bottled up and if they're destroyed it sprawls everywhere. Destroying the Pylons isn't necessarily an automatic Chaos victory- in canon the Imperium is still a going concern despite having been split in half by a tendril from the eye- but it's close. So destroying the Pylons is in and of itself a major strategic goal for Chaos, and consequently protecting them is a major strategic goal for the Imperium.

Fortunately, they're really fucking tough.

>>57992091

It draws and absorbs warp energy, yes but the ships are 'physical' objects. Fused and fueled entirely with warp cocain, yes, but at its core still a metal gutbucket flying, which the pylon can't destroy - only weaken an effin' lot (why isn't the daemon cannon working?!, engine malfunction, dropping warp in front at the Cadian guns, etc.) And so are 'normal' cultists and Chaos space marines/orks/dark eldars. Crones are a lot weakened due to the amount of crack cocain in their bloodstream suddenly now just normal blood tho.

Aka, draws in and absorb warp stuff, makes spaceship warping through a HELL of a chance of dropping in the system. Imperial ships less affected due to less saturated with warp stuff.

Actually helps with reinforcement tho: any Imperial force just needs to 'surf' the warp current to get to Cadia. Just remember to brake in time.

>All roads leads to Cadia.

>>57993262
Are we doing that in this timeline? Khorne was born out of the Maelstrom and that didn't drag the entire galaxy into the Warp.

I was always under the assumption that Chaos' goals were more simple. Kill Oscar, kidnap Isha, and shatter the Imperium's power to make an example of them to show what happens when mortals dare to go against the whims of the Chaos gods. Turn the galaxy back into a condition similar to the Age of Strife, which the Chaos Gods liked, where you had upteen million little petty empires comitting atrocities and fighting each other over stupid shit and feeding the Chaos Gods all the while. Yes the galaxy would be dragged into the Warp eventually, but through numerous daemon rituals and the simple fact that the galaxy can't sustain daemon predations on the level the Chaos Gods want, rather than blowing up one planet.

Szarekh has something similar, but in Szarekh's case he has to be thorough because if he tries to manually do it and misses a spot Chaos will survive and come back with a vengeance. And to do that he has to fight the most uphill war in the galaxy. He has to take a planet and hold it long enough that is literally right under Chaos and the Imperium's nose. Heck, you might even see a Chaos army come out of the Eye and team up with the Imperium, since the one thing both sides can agree on is they'd rather have Chaos or the Imperium occupy the planet than the omnicidal Star Empire.

Plus, if the pylons work exactly like in canon, Chaos would have died a long time ago. Szarekh would have just said to the Imperium "hey, I have a way to close the Eye of Terror and keep the Crones out of reality. Let's do that and then we can fight like gentlemen over who gets the galaxy afterwards". Because it's in both partys' interests to wipe out Chaos, Szarekh is savvy enough to play nice until it's done, and if it can be done without killing everyone a big deal of the Necron-Imperium tension will go down.

>>57994326
It could be that the Maelstrom has shrunk over the years since Khorne's birth. Growing and shrinking as events and the unknowable currents of the deep warp dictated but ultimately taking up a lot less space than it did when it was first formed.

In a similar manner the Eye of Terror is, relatively speaking, a fresh wound. Compared to Khorne's millions of years old scar on the sky it was created mere moments ago. In time, if left on it's own, it too may heal and fade away. It won't because the Chaos Eldar, and others, are busy fucking the stab wound.

When it was formed and Slaanesh was first born the reality collapse started at Shaa-Dome and tore itself outwards faster than the speed of light until it slapped into Cadia. The disturbance knocked the Pylons out of their 65 million year standby mode, the eye halted it's advance and the extremely thin corridor of the Cadian Gate was formed.

Presumably the unreal pressure is still all bottled up and removal of the Pylons would release it and the Eye would increase in size to an incalculable degree. Nothing galaxy absorbing but certainly bad news for a great many number of worlds, all of said worlds now at the whims of Chaos and it's servants who would welcome the resources and slaves/converts/food which would increase their power and be additional bad news for everyone else.

>>57995907
also worth noting is that the Eye of Terror is like a grenade to the Maelstrom's shotgun blast. Khorn erupted from his gestation in the warp near the Old Ones' powerbase in the galactic core directly onto the warpath against the NSE to the galactic northeast, and was a concerted, directional assault against an enemy whose fortifications operated on the same order of magnitude. In its original state the Maelstrom was likely much longer than the Eye, and splayed out like a 3d river delta from the core out rimward, where as the Eye is an expanding bubble of much denser warp influence/energy.

>>57996760
Would there have been any Tomb Worlds in what is now the Eye of Terror and what would have happened to them?

>>57997982
Probably the Crones would have hunted them down or killed them in their sleep, or the Old Eldar Empire would have done the same. The Eldar like to assassinate sleeping Necron lords when they can. Alaitoc nipped a Tomb World in the bud by killing it's leader while they were still in stasis.

It's debatably how easily the Necrons could be corrupted unless they were flesh-and-blood or possibly Flayed Ones. Corrupting a Star Empire Necron means going up against the will of the Silent King on some level which is probably going to turn out about as well as the Chaos Gods trying to corrupt Settra.

There's a Necron Overlord, Aetehk, who's stuck in the Screaming Vortex in canon and his response to waking up and seeing the surrounding space in it's current state was to groan and go pull out the gardening equipment (by which I mean Monoliths and Immortals).

New thread
>>57999291
>>57999291