>>54639397
So, last thread we already had a few words on the Battle of New Hope. Lambach put forth the idea that Marduk shows himself there and there's a battle between the three Warmasters.

Now, I'm conflicted on this. On one hand, this is probably the only chance we'll get to have the Triumvirate fight. On the other hand, I don't see why Marduk would reveal himself as soon as the Loyalists and Separatists begin open conflict.

Thoughts?

>>54639781
Basically the way I saw it was that Marduk would see the 2 factions wasting each other but perhaps both sides were on the verge of breaking off. Marduk sees now as the best chance to end both rival warmasters at once. Thinking surely all remaining legions will flock too him if Je'She and Freddy are removed from play so orders Isekho and Elsu yo join him in attack. Then we have 3 Legions each.
But Fredrick has Valorn waiting outside system and calls him in as back up. Upsetting Marduks plan a fresh Legion turns things in favor of the seps and bith Je'She and Marduk are forced to withdraw.

>>54639869
I doubt they'd bring their entire legions. I'm thinking one or two fleets per legion should be plenty.

So Valorn shows up, upsets the balance, the Chaos forces are forced to turn their attention to the newly arrived Pale Hounds, and the Loyalists run in the confusion?

As soon as Marduk sees the Je'She has left the system, he starts pulling forces back and regroups with his corrupted Brothers. This is where they get their assignments, like Mot waging war in the east.

Does that make sense?

>>54639948
Yeah that's more or less how I figured it'd go down.
And yeah not their entire Legions, but a decent enough portion of each of them for an epic battle.
See how everyone else feels about this though. My dudes aren't even there. Haha

>>54640083
Fair enough.

On a sidenote, I might finally have a name for the Seps. We've called them Separatists, the Confederacy and the Union. Why don't we just call them the Separatist Confederate Union, or SCU for short?

>>54639781
It doesn't need to be "at the beginning". If New Hope is the sight of one massive campaign that lasts for months (from the start of the separatist/loyalist war to the end) Marduk could reveal himself months or even years after Malcador's death.

>>54640350
Yeah, I'm thinking perhaps a few weeks maybe?
Also I think we need to figure out exactly what everyone is doing so I put together what I know, might need to change a few that I have gotten wrong and fill in the blanks.

>Marduk Engur
Attends the treaty as neutral party, then in an effort to end the war quickly attacks the 2 opposing factions.

>Pacha the Earthquake
???

>Deshain Kane
???

>Linares the Lord Of The Ale
Digging in at Terra?

>Emil Kannav
???

>Einchurt
???

>Elsu Eyanosa
Kills Malcador, then joins up with Marduk to attack.

>Lambach Kropor
Talking / fighting with Gyahdred

>Je'She of the Watch
Attending / fighting at the treaty

>Isekho The Unseen
Attending / fighting at the treaty

>Kinnévail Kincaid
Laying more groundwork for his religion?

>Zelbezis Dyestes
Attending / fighting at the treaty

>Ashur of Banipal
???

>Frederick Aristide
Attending / fighting at the treaty

>Gyahdred
Talking / Fighting with Lambach

>Valorn Adras
Waiting outside New Hopes system with reinforcements for the Seps, his intervention turns the tide of battle.

>Raj Vokar
Attending / fighting at the treaty

>Solomon Tyrus
Attending / fighting at the treaty

>Piter Karomonov
Attending / fighting at the treaty

>Mot Hadad
Doing silly ruinstorm things?

>Rokuten
???

>>54639869
>>54639948
>>54640350
So the way I see it, the loyalist and Sep lasts for months, fighting to the breaking point. Marduk finally sees it as his chance to strike and begins his assault, but the Pale Hounds arrive from the warp after being called upon months before.
The distraction allows for the loyalists to withdraw and begin the Imperium Ring while the Traitors get away because warpfuckery

>>54640451
Looking at the timeline it's pretty much at this point that Ashur has been trying to rein his legion in and is openly betrayed. The ritual to transform Ashur into a Daemonprimarch takes several weeks, so while everybody is off at New Hope getting betrayed by Marduk, Ashur is already collared and being doused in cultist blood.

I'll have to update the timeline.

>>54641541
Well, how does that change Terra? Given it wouldn't be a surprise attack from within anymore.

>>54640451
I liked the idea that Solomon was off on an Eldar assigned mission. If it doesn't work for Mot, we can do someone else.

>>54641541
This works

>>54641662
I suppose the collaring would take place before the Assassination of Malcador?

>>54641679
The suprise attack from the inside has been off the table for several threads now

>>54641894
Isn't the conflict between the Knights Stellaris and the Forge Lords where Mot finds the AI that becomes Hashut? That would have taken place several years before New Hope, as the AI slowly corrupts the legion and turns them to Chaos.

>>54640451
Pacha is probably away rebuilding Legion numbers and letting the survivors of the censuring get some time to recover.

>>54642032
I imagine the Mountains are a bit or a wild card. They keep to themselves, rebuilding. By the time they show up for Terra, nobody knows who they're siding with.

Or do you want them to show up earlier?

>>54642133
I think earlier, probably finding out about the fight and asking Raj/Linares about what the hell just happened.

>>54641938
Right, so I think it works really well if Solomon attacks Mot for no adequately explained reason and then word comes down at the conference that he's at it again (perhaps attacking poor Ashur, trying to rescue him.)

So basically:
>Mot closing in on finding that AI.
>SOLOMON, IT IS I, THE SPESS GHOST, STOP MOT FROM RELEASING AN ANCIENT EVIL. HE CANNOT KNOW WHAT HIDES IN THE AI CORE.
>Ok.
>Goes and attacks Mot
>Other primarchs are all WTF
Solomon is called to account for his actions. Realizing that telling them a ghost told him to do it isn't going to fly, Solomon lies and tells them it was a matter of honor, which is totally believable. Solomon's done strange shit like that before over honor.
>Aristede is all "What the fuck is wrong with you".
>Je'She is all "Honor makes sense to me, don't be such an autist, Aristede, you're spending too much time with Tibet-o-tron over there."
>Marduk is all neutral and unreadable. "Solomon, have some goddamned self control. Mot, don't be such a turd. Solomon is a cool dude, usually."

Years later
>SOLOMON! I AM THE GHOST! GO ATTACK THE LOXODONTII, THEY'RE ABOUT TO UNLEASH AN ANCIENT EVIL, YOU MUST SAVE YOUR BROTHER FROM HIS SONS
>Mission_accepted.png
>Meanwhile on New Hope...
>Malacador is dead.
>Be Je'She.
>Be barely averting war.
>Be trying to argue that you've got control over your homies and that you're abiding by the rules unlike SOME PEOPLE >_>
>Get the news
>Solomon is attacking Ashur
>"Why the fuck is Solomon attacking Ashur, Je'She."
>"...A matter of honor?"
>NOT FUCKING CUTTING IT THIS TIME ASSHOLE
>Brotherwar flares
>Fucking Eldar.

>>54640451
Yes, at this time, Linares is fortifying the Solar System, nearly all his Legion there. Maybe a small detachment at New Hope, just in case some help is needed.

>>54642167
>the Star Warriors ruin New Hope
It's like P O T T E R Y

>>54642167
That works, but the negotiations break down over accusations of who killed Malcador, not about rogue legions.

How would we make that work?

>>54642362
That's pretty brilliant.

>>54642133
>>54642165
>>54642165
I dunno, I kind of like the idea of them being unknown. Rather White Scars ish and it lets them be the aid unlooked for at the dawn.

>>54642362
...Dammit.

>>54642379
Well, rogue legions don't help Je'She's case at all and undermine his credibility. Je'She's being shifty as fuck. Looks like he killed Malcador while meanwhile he's having legions take out opponents. This whole conference is a waste of time, keeping his foes in place until he can deal with him.

Essentially the theory would be that Je'She seeks Malcador's place. Always has. That's why he's such a kiss-ass.
Je'She has always sent his men to do his dirty work. Lambach opposed Je'She? Lambach was dealt with.
He sets up this "conference", assassinates Malcador to tie it up, meanwhile he sends his hatchet man Solomon off to go take out his opponents. Where's Einchurt? Mustering for war, you can bet. He's probably heading to your home system right now to wreck your shit while you're distracted at a negotiating table.
It's a damn good thing we found out about Solomon and Je'she's betrayal and Marduk was able to send one of his supporters to save Ashur, otherwise Je'She would have stabbed us all in the back.

Something like that, maybe?

>>54642475
It's funny because Einchurt actually is mustering for a potential war, although it's on his own orders rather than any Warmaster's

Silver Blades renegades:

>The Bloody Jar warhost

These guys served alongside Marduk's forces, and eventually were touched by Chaos. They fought alongside the Traitor Legions for most of the Brotherwar, but avoiding engagements with their original Legion, to create some kind of confusion. At the Siege of Terra, they fought along the Leviathan's Host, and fucked off directly to the Eye of Terror after the Siege. They swore allegiance to Khorne, and got a whole planet for their own. They kept their original structure, with a strict chain of command that allowed the Bloody Jar to remain united. They still keep the basic knowledge for the creation of a Spess Mehreen, and they constantly prove it by adding new recruits to their ranks. They usually accept renegades, but most of their recruits are slaves taken in the planets they pillage.

They keep the Legion's love for melee, and they are known for their relentless attacks, preferring usually small, undefended villages to get good loot and easily spill blood for their God.

File: Bloody Jar 1.png (33 KB, 201x281)

33 KB PNG

>>54642611
They enjoy good fights, too, and will join expeditions to realspace for blood and skulls.

Their numbers oscillate between 500 and 1000, and at least 700 betrayed the Legion during the Brotherwar.

Unlike in other Warbands, the Warhost try to keep infights at a minimum, solving problems by fighting in The Pit, a gladiators arena in their homeworld.

>Bloody Jar Mehreen

>>54642475
I like it very much. Is pretty much what a perceptive man would say of that negotiation and what happens around.

>The Silver Blades are overthrowing the High Lords right now, why would they do at Terra anyway? What an asshole this Je'She

I was about to say something but I forgot

>>54642611
>>54642860
I like 'em, but the name.... Bloody Jar... doesn't sound intimidating, does it?

>>54642475
This is actually pretty good. I think we should roll with this.

>>54642966
Bloody...Hand? Soul? Claw?

>>54643211
If you wanna have them keep the same-ish name, the Bloody Jaws.

>>54643247
The Bloody part is the one I want to keep. Bloody Jaws instant-remembered me to the movie don't know why.

>>54643308

>Blood themed Prefix
Bloody/Bloodied/Carmine/Crimson/Scarlet/Sanguine

>Suffix/Blade Themed Prefix
Blades/Razors/Swords/Sabers

>Blood themed suffix
Encarmine/of Blood/Sanguine

Mix and match to your heart's intent

>>54643500
Carmine Razors?

>>54643624
Doesn't sound like Khornate Silver Blades though.

All things considered, they'd probably be actual Berzerkers, as opposed to Gunzerkers.

>>54643791
Heart Rippers?

>>54643846
Maybe. Something related to Distilled Rage? Idk.

>>54643946
Don't want to overuse the alcoholic beverages theme

>>54644060
I think this is one of the times where it actually works.

>>54644311
Blood Distillers?

>>54641938
The betrayal and collaring itself, yes.

The rescue mission from both Pacha and Kinnévail would happen later, and apparently the Star Warriors want in on that shit as well >>54642167 so why the hell not.

>>54644444
Quints like that speak truth, although I'd advocate for "Blood Boilers".

>>54644444
Bloodstillers. Sort of does both things, but sounds a little easier to say. blooD Distiller has that D-D sound where you have to sort of pause in the middle of saying it for emphasis. It's a very awkward thing to say out loud.

Also bloodstilling sounds like a horror movie thing which is cool.

>>54645577
Bloodstillers then. Also, those quints

File: Hound of the Apocalypse.png (33 KB, 201x281)

33 KB PNG

If we're sharing colour schemes for wayward chapters, this was what I had in mind for the Hounds of the Apocalypse. Also decided that Arcturus Zul, the guy who leads them as of M41 A: was not around when the HotA first left the Pale Hounds, he was kidnapped from a sep world years later and managed to become head of the warband after many years of scheming/fighting becoming a space marine in the process and B: has a brother called Arterius who aided him in his rise to power and acts as the warband's head sorcerer.

>>54645843
I should probably state that kidnapping Separatist mortals is how the HotA recruits new members, just in case anyone was confused.

Bump

>>54645843
I'll whip up something for the Iron Ancients… after I wake up

>>54644785
Blood Boilers is pretty good

File: Runeclaw.png (32 KB, 201x281)

32 KB PNG

Working on a scheme for the Sep Chosen of Hecate, called Rune Claws. They still favor the use of Librarians but now rely on lightning raids and small elite units.

File: Chainbearers v1.png (39 KB, 201x281)

39 KB PNG

>The Chainbearers
>"I'm sorry, but we cannot abide by this anymore. Father is gone, and with that our fight against the Ecclesiarchy has become impossible, and we cannot bear to see the Imperium abandon its core tenets. We know this marks us as traitors to our Father's decision, but there's common folk on the side of the Separatists that need helping. We'll try and keep the dream of the Imperial Truth living for as long as we can. With hope, one day we can once more celebrate together, but for now, we shall bear the chains of treason, yet we shall remain tied to our roots."
>Huascar, Chapter Master of the Chainbearers

>>54645843
It'd be awesome if they could have the wolfs head helmets from the Space Wolves models. I think that would really fit them.

File: The Fettered v1 (Chainbea(...).png (38 KB, 201x281)

38 KB PNG

>>54650702
1-On hindsight, I should have them bear literal chains in addition to figurative one
2-I had forgotten about Mot's Vorpal Chains. Until Mot decides on a name (or we get to come with one fitting name for each, or something else), they are temporarily renamed to The Fettered.

bump

>>54650140
My basic story for these guys is that they are descendants of the group that didn't go along with Lambachs plan, and after the Censure fled to the Dusk Phantoms carrying a small supply of gene seed.
Gyhadred pardens them of all crimes commited by Lambach and it is actually a well know fact that they are Loyalist Chosen rather than a secret.
Because there were so few of them when they did fight it was as small, elite, covert teams. The original chapter master, Parthenios, was little more than a a rank and file squad leader amongst the Chosen, nothing special but he gained the respect of the few men he led.
The issue I know have is how the craft they escaped on managed to avoid the curse that affected the rest of the Chosen fleet. Any suggestions?

>>54653449
This is Tijo and company, too, right?
Perhaps the ship the escape on isn't included in the curse. Like if the curse is on all Chosen vessels, maybe it's not technically a chosen vessel, but Imperial Army or something. The curse could be applied literally and this ship isn't included via a loophole.

>>54654092
Yeah Tijo and Company. They escape on her old ship. That she captained before Starburst. Now repurposed as a cargo / personal hauler. I guess that could work and is fairly simple to do.

>>54654119
Perfect.


>Imperialist Dusk Phantoms
If they exist, they're on the far side of the Imperium when the heresy hits and weather the storm by Terra. They have some really weird theology and mostly hide on the periphery and slay xenos.
They do not fight other Astartes.
Hmm... actually... I'll write up something tonight.

>Chaos Dusk Phantoms
There's a few types probably with different philosophies, but it probably comes down to either indulging in illusion or something.

So, been working on non-Astartes aspects of the thing. Really, been mainly what I do since I came on because, well, that's what was sorta needed. One thing I came up with was a traitor force that would be aligned to Hashut, the Tauric Host. However, been reworking things to fit more with the timeline of Hashut and intend to make them pre-Hashut that get converted BY the Forge Lords, though they're still primed due to being a techno-sorcerous barbaric society of beastmen.

And so, wanted some opinions on some broad strokes ideas. The short of it is a planet on the borders of the Maelstrom, an Exodite World that gets human settlers during the old days, and what runs is a long running conflict between these humans with their STC technology and the Exodites. The settlers eventually turn to warp power and techno-sorcery, and eventually cause several things that lead to mass mutations into beastmen, sort of evoking the beastmen vs wood elves of old Fantasy.

Eventually, I intended to have them be in control, due to some effect that causes the Maelstrom to swallow the planet finally and just fully immerse it warp energy. Thus it becomes something of a daemon world, ruled by techno-barbarian sorcerous beastmen who eventually come to follow Hashut and become an aspect of traitor forces in that regard.

A few ideas I had alongside this were ideas of them managing to corrupt the World Soul, either by somehow managing to infect it with human souls or possible a daemon or daemons, or both. Another idea was that some of the mutated beastmen, or a caste of them, are actually remnants of the eldar, who have, due to the passage of time and warp, become simply part of a greater beastmen society, with remnants of the old ways but twisted and warped.

>>54656228
I like this idea. We can always use more Chaos auxiliary forces.

The only thing I can't claim to know much about is the 'World Soul'. Is that actually a thing?

>>54656807
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/World_Spirit
Yup, it's basically the exodite world's version of an Infinity circuit.

Djinns
The Sentinels’ librarians pre-Nikaea, and were reestablished post-Siege of Terra. Djinns specialise in practices that are usually seen as mundane and trivial compared to other psyker orders among other legions. Djinns are famed for their skilled use of warp-fire and ‘weather magic’ to both destroy enemies and conceal allies. They also practice light forms of divination. Reports taken from various Djinns reveal that they experience divination as looking into an ocean of fire and magic. It is dangerous, and they fear to delve deeper so they do not awaken anything beneath the waves, and only glance at what can be perceived on the surface. Librarians from legions such as the Steel Souls and the Chosen of Hecate have been known to view their IXth legion brothers as fearful and superstitious, but the Djinn Orders know better than to dive into an ocean not knowing if you’ll ever come out again.

Djinn Orders wear black armour. With many runes and talismans adorning their belts, with some tied to their arms with bronze chains. They wear silks of various hues of reds and oranges. Strange dialects before the collapse written across both cloth and armour tell of tales ancient and terrifying in equal measure. Even other Sentinels are wary of their “gifted” brothers. For Djinns know full well the power they wield, and are not to be taken lightly. They are of grim demeanor, for it is said that in their training they are forced to realise what horrors they could inflict upon them and their brothers, and so they do not forget what destruction they could reap, lest they stray too far from the beaten path.

>>54657885
I like them, support Librarians are always nice.

They're reinstated post-Siege? Usually, legions allowed their Psykers to return to the Librarius during the Heresy/Brotherwar, as Psykers are powerful weapons against daemons.

I take it they still do the whole 'recording stories on their armor' thing?

>>54656228
I like that. I think a world spirit could definitely get infected by chaos, particularly by Hashut if we're going with the idea that Hashut may be a pissed off greater creation of Vaul.

>>54655563
>"Imperialist" Dusk Phantoms
Shortly after the censure of the Golden Mountains, a conference was held by the Dusk Phantoms to discuss the possibility of Astartes on Astartes violence. The Dusk Phantoms had, in the past, conducted simulations and theoretical drills for Astartes conflict, but these were under the assumption of xenos taint, not civil war.
The well repsected Captain Kya-Non suggested that the legion abstain from any Astartes civil war. Though the legion eventually decided in favor of intervention, Kya-Non's point is recognized. Several Sangha are set aside to protect the realm during a civil war. Choosing a monastic orange for their plate, these Sangha are sent into the outer darkness to patrol.
The other legions were apprised of these fleets and their transponder codes. Most other primarchs laughed at the melodramatic response of the Dusk Phantoms, but Tyrus among others, applauded the gesture.
To this day, these Sangha patrol the edges of the Imperiums, sometimes appearing to aid Astartes or mortal forces, at other times appearing unlooked for to protect the people of the Imperium.
The Dusk Phantom legion considers these merciful brethren to technically still be part of the legion and keeps them supplied on the rare occasions they swing East.
For their part, these Sangha interact seldom with the rest of the Imperium, appearing to aid in a battle and transmitting bursts of information about the movement of large xenos forces, but beyond that, ghosts.

>>54658957
>Hashut may be a pissed off greater creation of Vaul.
D'you reckon, if they found out about that, some Tech priests would turn to Chaos because of it? Like, they see Hashut as a more active counterpart to the Omnissiah (mostly because he hasn't allowed filthy non-believers to corrupt his cult), seeing as him being an artificial god makes him a "Machine God". Maybe many of the heretical arms of the machine Cult worship Hashut for that very reason.

File: Zelbezis Dyestes_primarch.jpg (3.52 MB, 3508x2480)

3.52 MB JPG

Let us all behold Zelbezis' handsome face

>>54660154
I don't think they'd dig the whole made by Eldar kind of thing, but the Deus Ex Machina would appeal to them. I think the hereteks definitely do worship him.

>>54660276
Hell yeah.

I really ought to figure out what Gyahdred actually looks like...

>>54660449
I'm willing to talk some stuff through in regards to Gyahdred. Probably our only asian Primarch.

>>54660276
Byotiful.

File: IMG_0829.jpg (45 KB, 313x286)

45 KB JPG

>>54661603
>Only Asian Primarch
>who is Rokuten

>>54661689
I'm an idiot

>>54661689
He's an ogre. Duh.

>>54660154
There is a chance they have no idea Hashut IS linked to Eldar (if he even is...)

Though, this does introduce an interesting question. In canon, the Forge of Souls is a thing, and is neutral ground, but it sounds exactly like the sort of place Hashut would claim, and that gives interesting power in Chaos dynamics.

That said, still curious how folks feel about former Eldar beastmen as part of the group, or should they just be killed off?

>>54663246
>claiming the Forge of Souls
>in any fashion whatsoever

If this "Hashut" (original name by the way very clever you are) wants to get his ass deleted from existence by all 4 real gods instantly, then yeah, claim the Forge.

>>54663722
Oh Christ almighty it's this guy again

>>54663929
The hell are you even talking about? No one can rule the Forge. Period. Thats just basic lore knowledge. And if you're going to invent some 5th god (which every snowflake before you has already done btw), you might wanna pick a better name. At least try and come up with something original.

>>54664006
That's kinda the point. It's supposed to be on the nose. Hashut's legion take heavy influence from the Chaos dwarves. As for >>54663929 's reaction, it's less about your suggestion and more about the snarky comment, which is not condusive to getting people to accept your ideas and generally just ends with them using the ideas you disliked purely out of spite

>>54664006
We get it, you hate anything that isn't a tower girl general, you don't need to stress it.

And if you're going to barge in to shitpost, you might as well stay and do your homework so your shitposts are more accurate and you look less like a frothing retard

>>54664100
Doesn't that just mean you're giving control of your work to trolls?

>>54664238
Yeah, but it's kinda a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. you either ignore the "Troll" even if they had a good point cause they's being a dick, or you use their idea despite the fact that they obviously don't know how to effectively raise criticisms in group projects.

>>54658582
Oh ok, I'll change the time then.

And yeah, they still record stories, but more ancient and archaic. Pre-Age of Darkness

>>54664441
I guess so. Well, I wouldn't worry too much either way if I were you. Doesn't seem to be much of anything going on here at all one way or the other, and you can't crash a ship with no sails no matter how many people yank on the helm, haha. There's some mercy in that maybe.

THREAD PROMPT:

Are there any campaigns that have had your Primarch fighting with another primarch?

>>54665513
Well, Valorn almost certainly had to fight Mot during his eastern crusade, seeing as Valorn was tasked with killing him. That makes confrontation between the two basically a certainty.

>>54665513
Along side or against?

>>54666283
I had alongside in mind, but against could be cool.
Heck, do both if you like

>>54665513
Lambach would fight alongside almost all of his brothers at one point or another, Most notably the Silver Blades while the Chosen regained their strength.
Lambachs first joint effort with Ashur went amazingly with the 2 legions bringing the world to heel swiftly and efficiently but opened a rift between the 2 brothers that would never truly be resolved.
He spent a long time working with the Dusk Phantoms with only a small group while Kaden ran the 414th wing of the crusade.
I keep meaning to write up a story about his meeting Je'She on the battle field and how to start with Je'She finds his laid back demeanor frustrating and unsuited for the theater of war but then realizes that due to Lambachs careful planning the fight went very favorably for the Imperials and what Je'She originally mistook for an uncaring attitude was actually more a credit to the fact he was confidant that they had already won. Je'She would then realize that some of his brothers who think Lambach unsuited to be a general are mistaken and the 2 become firm friends. (But with the hours I've been working I haven't stayed on top of it. Happy for you to take it over if you like).

>>54665513
Linares has fought along maybe all his brothers in one way or another, but he is usually seen with Lambach, Raj and Je'She.

>>54668080
Nah man you go for it, sounds sweet as. I'll be looking forward to it

Bump

>>54667082
Ah, well if it's "Alongside", then Valorn didn't fight alongside his brothers that often. After all, the Hounds as a whole often rejected aid to such a point that the most common reason for them to take to the field alongside another legion was to provide them with much needed aid. Whilst the Hounds didn't like receiving aid and weren't particularly fond of starting a campaign alongside another legion they were more than willing to provide their cousins with much needed aid. As such Valorn rarely took to the field alongside another legion and it was even rarer for that legion's primarch to also be in attendance.

However, of all the other legion's Valorn was most willing to come too the aid of the Smoke Stalkers. As such, Isekho was the brother he fought beside the most.

File: support.jpg (78 KB, 800x581)

78 KB JPG

>>54665513
I think it's fair to say that Raj has fought alongside every single one of his brothers at some point. Support legion, ya know?

>>54665513
>Alongside
The Campaign of Dom Ran Kin, where the Loxodontii's 1st and 3rd company led by Ashur were joined by Lambach Kropor and his closest circle of Chosen of Hecate. It was the first encounter between Ashur and psychikally powered technology, which was why the Chosen were deployed to his aid. It was here where the brotherhood with the most potential was crushed under Ashur's superstitious fears as he realised that the Chosen of Hecate were thoroughly psychik warriors.

>Against
One of the first joint-force efforts of the Loxodontii after being united with their primarch was the Tercium campaign with the Death Heads. As they were battling to take a critical location did Einchurt's forces begin to level hub-block after hub-block, which led to Ashur ordering his own Astartes to interfere. At first, it was just brawls and wrestling, but quickly escalated into open fire and lethal close combat. While the two legions were caught in their own infighting did the resistance, which was hiding in the hub-blocks, regroup and launch a devastating counter offensive which cost the legions several more marines than necessary. From this moment onward, Ashur and Einchurt would never see eye-to-eye, anymore.

Considering that the Eastern Black Crusade Mot wages against the Separatists is one the to do list, and people we posting traitors from loyalist or separatist legions, it seems like I should put this forward again.

Mot and his Forge Lords are the main force that assault the Sep space. He's backed up by traitor Titans, as well as traitor Guard. Still, that seems hardly enough. So here's my proposal:
Marduk sends all the traitors from the loyalist and separatist legions along with Mot. They don't fight in Imperial space, just in the SCU. I think that should give Mot enough forces to make his Crusade more believable.

>>54677163
That makes sense. The heretical loyalists act as military support while the heretical separatists sow chaos and disorder, weakening any potential retaliation. Also a good way to get troublesome elements away from the more important engagements (the siege of Terra etc)

>>54677163
>>54678560
The SepTrait could make some good inside-jobs, like being the bodyguards of planetary governors and then rekting them as the assault starts, or the more traditional move of opening the gates of a city. I like it.

File: Einchurt_primarh_lowres.jpg (315 KB, 877x620)

315 KB JPG

>>54665513
Einchurt and his Legion often fought alone, engaging in the conflicts no other could hope to succeed in. However, he most commonly fought alongside his brother Gyahdred, and was also known to campaign alongside Marduk Engur and Mot Hadad on occasion.

Also, low-res Einy for all your low-res Einy needs

>>54680758
He looks like a boss.

>>54680758
>imma chargin mah lazer

>>54680758
Damn that Skull badge looks good.

>>54680758
One of these days you guys and your cool pictures will convince me to overcome my blisteringly intense distrust of all online transactions with individuals.

One day.

>>54682696
I'd love to see Emil's face man. Slaine's a cool guy, trust me.

Plus, it's good to have a clear idea of what the character looks like. I find it helps while writing them.

>>54683372
Part of the problem is, I wrote Emil in such a way as to have his most unique characteristics visible only in a presumably much more expensive full-body shot, lol.

As far as portraits go though, basically any picture of a pale man with long, straight, black hair would be just as good as whatever a custom artist might provide.

>>54639397
Bump because I guess everyone's elsewhere right now.

>>54685684
I'm here. Just doing household chores

>>54685684
I'm stuck at work.

>The Fate of Kampfgruppe Vallutzstrom
The Loyalist elements of the XI Grand Battallion, designated Kampfgruppe Vallutzstrom, fought valiantly for the Imperium during the Brother War and the years after. However, despite their distinction, their eventual fate is unknown. Official VI Legion documentation claims the survivors were "executed in heroism", killed for potentially having been tainted by Marius von Kreimann. However, the timing of their disappearance coincides almost exactly with the vanishing of the Primarch Einchurt. As such, some believe that the Primarch brought the Kampfgruppe with him on whatever journey he undertook. Still others theorize they succumbed to the same evils that tainted their former commander, defecting to the heretical forces of Chaos, or that they heeded the honeyed words of their former allies in the XVth Legion and left for the arch-betrayer's kingdoms. Ultimately, however, nothing has been seen nor heard of the last warriors of the XIth Grand Battallion in nearly nine millennia, and as with many things in the early history of the Imperium, the truth may never be known.

File: soulless_by_hellstern.jpg (293 KB, 1024x768)

293 KB JPG

>>54683372
So I did some digging amongst the interwebs for an example of what I'm talking about regarding Emil.

Pretty much he looks like this, except obviously not from a fantasy setting. Taller, cyber-limbs, "Primarchier", "40k-ier", all that jazz. But this is the gist of it, in my mind anyway.

File: IMG_0253.jpg (172 KB, 600x900)

172 KB JPG

>>54683372
Will have to consider.

>>54680758
!! Nice!
Meanwhile more devotional issues of Gyahdred.

>>54686390

>>54680758
I don't know what part I like the most; this is easily one of the best Slaine has done.

The bejeweled skull looks amazing, the gun really catches the eye, and the face is exactly what I hoped for. Like we discussed, he's ugly, but only because of the scars and burns.

>>54683926
Perhaps, but it'd still be incredible to have all 21 of them done by Slaine, wouldn't you agree?

I'm looking forward to the day where you'll regularly join us on Discord

>>54686161
Marius is the one that falls to Chaos, yeah? And Grand Batallion is basically a Chapter?

>>54686390
Looks cool. I did always imagine him with those kinds of cold, blue eyes.

>>54686418
Same as with Emil, if you want to discuss what he looks like, hit me up. I've been doing the same thing with Mot.

File: Siege of Terra.jpg (57 KB, 500x375)

57 KB JPG

Ok, so, I think it might be a good idea to get a bit further into the Brotherwar, now that we have the basic ideas for the Battle of New Hope.

Before we can go any further, we need to have a solid idea of how long the War and Ruinstorm go on for.

I have heard it thrown around that we want the Ruinstorm to last about 20 years. The explanation for this will be Hashut's ascension from Greater Daemonhood into Lesser Godhood. Does this sound alright to folks?

Secondly, the Brotherwar itself. The Horus Heresy took 7 years. Do we want to extend our War? Lambach suggested upping it to 10. What's the general thought here?

Also, we should add the events at/around the Battle of New Hope to the timeline. Anyone want to do the honors?

>>54690658
I think most the new hope events are in place on the time line yeah?
Mostly it just needs stories now to fluff it out?

>>54690794
The timeline does not mention Solomon taking action against Mot, the Traitors revealing themselves, or the arrival of Valorn.

Actually, we might still need to decide on the whole Solomon-Mot thing. How does that go down?

>>54690827
yeah fair enough, there is definitely more to add, I'm just not 100 % sure where everything goes.

File: Einchurt_primarch.jpg (3.41 MB, 3508x2480)

3.41 MB JPG

>>54690486
Marius is indeed the main Chaos traitor amongst the VIth Legion.

It also all looks better in hi-res

>>54690658
I like the idea of extending it to 10-12 years, especially since it's a three-way fight

>>54691948
Even nicer. He reminds me of the Medic from TF2 oddly enough.
Also, I support the longer war.

>>54690486
Yeah, I have to say, I'm liking his work and the consistent style.
I'm currently trying to decide just what I think he looks like. He's definitely got extra mechadendrite arms. I'm thinking I might go with a mad scientist/wrathful god/Magnus type big hair thing, kept in place by a crown of servo-skulls. Considering a mechanical third eye.
His war mask definitely has complex inlay that looks like the sort of thing you see with Mahakala and other wrathful deities.
Probably has heavy features, thick eyebrows.

>>54690827
>Solomon x Mot
So I'm thinking spoopy ghost sends Solomon to go stop Mot. Solomon wants to get Mot up there and have a proper duel and all that kind of thing, but Mot is in the middle of things and tells his legion to stall Solomon. He's also canny enough to know that it'll make Solomon the aggressor. Doesn't take much to get Solomon to attack and the Forge Lords manage to look like the injured party. Talking to Hashut, Mot figures out that Solomon is probably attacking to destroy Hashut, so Mot does something tricky and lets Solomon think he's suceeded. Result is that Solomon is looked at with suspicion and looses status. Je'She, as Solomon's primary defender also looses face.
This pleases Mot, even before Chaos.
Something like that?

>>54692383
You might be served better by aligning your names to Tibetan theme, it would streamline your concept a little better.

I realized what your names where, because I'm a dumbass, but instead of "AdMech-Buddhist Tibetan Vampires with Gothic horror names" it's "AdMech-Buddhist Tibetan Vampires

Which is a lot less pretentious than "Long Story"

File: 1501827744778.jpg (15 KB, 542x317)

15 KB JPG

Also, pic related should be the Separatist insignia, or some variation thereof

File: AJ.jpg (166 KB, 1200x1200)

166 KB JPG

>>54692383
Please make Gyhadred have Andrew Jacksons hair.

>>54693185
With both eyes blindfolded? Dunno, I've been digging the green phoenix so far.

Here's the story I promised Je'she

Dancing Devil sliced down, utterly destroying the six limbed xenos warrior before him. Je’she, Primarch of the IX Legion, The Sentinels, took a moment to consider the battlefield. His Legionaries, for the first time fought alongside the Chosen of Hecate.
He’d met his brother briefly before they’d deployed and while Je’She gave the outline of the battle Lambach Kropor had added little, just sat at the strategy table with a half cocked smile, he seemed companionable enough but Je’she had expected more input from his fellow Primarch and was a little off put that one of his brothers could seem so placid, by comparison Radcliff Kaden, the Chosen’s first Captain cut a highly impressive figure, even amongst his brother astartes. Giving voice to solid and effective battle strategies. The Stone Sentinel had heard mixed things about Kropor. Raj Vokar spoke very highly of the man but others had claimed that he was perhaps unprepared to properly lead one of the Emperors Legions. Je’She was yet to make up his mind.

>>54693809
The Chosen fought in close knit units following in the wake of assault kitted Dreadnaughts their technique seemed effective but lacked any real flair. Je’She had heard they made extensive use of the psykicly inclined but so far witnessed no evidence of it.
The fighting was hard, the multi-limbed opponents were swift, strong and deadly. Je’she had requested that Kropor advance with him and stoically push the Xenos back, however Lambach’s unit had pushed hard up the middle and was in danger of being cut off.
Je’she gave a sigh. Surely Lambach must know the danger he was placing himself in, he seemed a formidable warrior at least and Je’she had to admit he admired his form with a pole arm. Still being an excellent fighter was one thing. Lambach was a Primarch and should have a better grasp of battlefield awareness.
Mustering three squads to his side Je’she made to cut a path to his brother in order to extract him before he was trapped. Fighting picked up in intensity as they drove deeper. Dancing Devil accounting for hundreds of filthy xenos lives. The further in they were carried the more Je’she brooded on his brothers carelessness. Could he not see that they risked collapsing the line when they were cut off, harsh words formed in his mind as he sought the correct way to properly berate someone who was meant to be his equal. Perhaps Einchurt and the others had been right. Lambach Kropor was no general.
Finally the Sentinels reached the Chosen.

>>54693823
“Lambach, what are you doing, you’re separating yourself from the main battle line”
Without turning to look at the approcing Sentinels or letting up his fighting Lambach’s answer was short and simple. “I know Brother, come fight with me, just a little further”.
Considering where they were Je’she had few other options. Also slightly intrigued by the completely different person his brother now appeared to be Je’she added his strength to that of Lambach’s and the two brothers fought like warrior gods. Laying waste to all xenos before them, their accompanying astartes falling in behind the two lords of war.
Seemingly arbitrarily Lambach stopped his advance.
“Gaius” was all he said.
A robed figure in hulking, fearsome Terminator armour, perhaps the only suit that Je’she had noticed amongst the Chosen stepped towards his Primarch while the other Chosen warriors formed a ring around the man, protecting him from the enemy. Following suit Je’She gave the command for his men to do the same.
The already intense fighting picked up as the Terminator began to chant whatever he was doing was driving the xenos into a frenzy. Several marines were cut down under the barrage of attacks now assailing the ring of warriors.

>>54693848
“What is the meaning of this Lambach?” Je’she demanded “We are about to be over run”.
“Just a moment longer, you’ll see” there was that half cocked smile again, Je’she could hardly believe he had followed this madman.
Suddenly the chanting stopped, so too did the attacks. The legionnaire in the Terminator armour stood as rigid as a rod. The xenos began to mill, as if confused and became easy targets for the marines. Swiftly the Xenos were over run, in a matter of minutes a battle that could have lasted days was over.
“I ask you again Lambach, what was that?” Je’she was unsure of exactly how to approach his brother at the moment, on one hand he was elated that the battle had been won with minimal casualties on the Imperial side on the other he was desperately confused as to exactly what was happening.
“A hive mind Je’she, I noticed it in your briefing, the way these xenos behaved all pointed to it. I simply took my most powerful weapon, Gaius here to the very centre of the battlefield and had him block the enemies signal, much like jamming a ship's communications, I’m sure it was very taxing for him”
“But why would you not share this information with me, what if I had not rushed to your aid?” Still Je’she could barely believe what had transpired.

>>54693871
“I had a back up plan, my Librarians would have seen to my safety, plus I wanted to see how you would react, I wanted to see the type of warrior my brother was. There are those who would have left me to my devices and perhaps seen me slain. I am very glad to not have to count you among them”. Lambach offered his hand in the manner of the warriors grasp. After a second of thinking Je’she took it.
“You are an odd man Kropor” with a smile he added “I’m glad to say Raj was right about you, I almost had you pinned for a fool but your actions here saved the lives of many of my men. For that I thank you brother”

A remembrancer had taken a pict of the two Primarchs sharing in this handshake, and had events not transpired the way they had the pict would have become famous in the history books. Je’she himself still has a copy of the pict and in the rare moments he gets to himself looks back to it and wonders if events could have played out differently.

File: MACUSA_Logo.png (216 KB, 555x555)

216 KB PNG

>>54693628
It reminds me a lot of this, and it doesn't strike me as particularly Warhammery

>>54694389
I don't mind giving the Seps more 'modern' imagery; it makes for a nice contrast.

>>54693809
>>54693823
>>54693848
>>54693871
I like this. It shows both brothers in a great light.

Je'She is shown for as a logical figure and a great commander. This is the kind of figure that can believable become a great Warmaster.

Lambach is shown as an incredibly intelligent figure; not the greatest warrior, but clever and resourceful.

Plus, these are the exact kinds of brotherly moments that make Warhammer 40k's story so painful. It gives weight to the Brotherwar.

>>54695031

>>54692383
I support both that look for Gyahdred, and the extended war as well.

So let's say the Brotherwar takes 12 years, with loads of fighting between all three factions. Does the war end after the Siege of Terra? Or do you suppose the Loyalists and Seps would continue fighting?

Also, let's give these events proper dates in the timeline.

>>54697411
>what did he mean by this

>>54697630
>bump probably

>>54695031
considering they are in many ways a more "Modern" faction (technology wise) I reckon the US-esq Phoenix works pretty well

>>54695031
Thanks man, I been playing with it for awhile, was worried it seemed silly. I wanted to try make Je'She seem unsure about Lambach without making either of them seem stupid or arrogant. Actually difficult.
I'd love to actually get the pict of the 2 of them drawn up now though.

I'm about to go off to bed, so I'll leave you with something to discuss overnight.

The Separatist State, or the Separatist Confederate Union. How does it form into the state it becomes by 40k? What are the seven constituent states like? When do the Seps decide they need to set up their state in this fashion?

Basically, I think we should get into the origins for the SCU, so that we can figure out how it grows over the millennia.

Bump

So who gets the next OP pic, Zelbezis or Einchurt?
Also

>The Fate of Rheigmarkch
As with most Legion homeworlds, Rheigmarkch hosted a sect of Mechanicum artificiers and manufactorates to produce the goods neccessary to maintain the Legion's war footing. For Rheigmakrch, this came in the form of the Arkite Conclave.
Discovered during the first campaign led by the Primarch Einchurt, the Arkite Conclave was not a Forge World, but rather a flotilla of Mechanicum vessels that had been flung far adrift by the Warp. Forced to fend for themselves amongst the Intergalactic Void, they had developed into an unorthodox imitation of a Forge World. Constantly facing xenos reavers and pirates, the Arkites constantly moved. Their highly militarized society was led by a council of individuals reffered to as Archparagons, a conclave of Archmagos chosen for their near-perfect reflection of a certain facet of the Machine God, the Omnissiah, and the Motive Force.
The VIth Legion discovered the Arkite Conclave's flotilla when their fleet translated in-system during a naval engagement between the Arkite and the Xenos known as [REDACTED]. The VIth Legion's fleet immediately engaged, saving several key ships in the Arkite flotilla. The Conclave of Archparagons requested to convene with the commanders of their saviours, and here revealed they had tapped the Imperial vox lines. They were inspired by the cold yet selfless logic which drove the VIth Legion, and asked from whence they came; A fleet of such prodigious size does not simply 'exist'.
The Arkites pledged their allegiance to the VIth Legion, and were guided back to Rheigmarkch's system. It was only after they had made anchor within the outer reaches of the system that they were brought back into contact with the Mechanicum, much to the dismay and anger of Mars. The political fighting quickly lead to many of the freedoms enjoyed by the Arkites being removed, Einchurt seemingly unwilling to engage in petty Imperial politicking.
>con't

>>54705238
It is from this early seed that the fate of Rheigmarkch during the Age of Darkness would be decided. Magos of the Mechanicum have venerable lifespans, and the memories of the Archparagons have, since the earliest days, been stored in immense databanks to be passed on to their inheritors. Such long, extensive knowledge can be corrupting, however.
Amongst those who helped to spread this corruption was Kur Ba'al, 76th Captain of the XXth Legion. A traitor prior even to his gene-sire, the Forge Lord took advantage of his wounding during the Ullanor crusade and his friendship with Korpsmarshall Marius von Kreimann to water the seeds of dissent amongst the Magos of the Arkite Conclave.
These seeds festered and grew for several years, most aggressively within the heart of Archmagos Drei Sypozux, Archparagon of Contempt. Kur Ba'al promised to restore the freedom once taken from the Conclave by the jealous hands of Mars, a slight that had threatened to devour the Archparagons of Contempt since their return into the fold of the greater Mechanicum. Amongst the others influenced were Feros Gteron, Archparagon of Truth, and Mechavelus Halatrox, Archparagon of Eternity.
The clock slowly ticked down to midnight.
>con't

>>54705498
When the Traitors showed their hand, the seeds of betrayal across the Imperium sprouted, and Rheigmarkch was not left alone in this regard. Marius von Kreimann and his XIth Grand Battallion, reduced to the Traitor remnants after the purge of the formation's Loyalists on Aestran's Folly, translated in close proximity to the moored Arkite flotilla. And then something that had not happened in over a millenia occurred.
The fleet's keyship, the 'Ark Xevoxite', moved of its own volition.
Several Imperial Navy vessels and Mechanicum war-arks, picking up on what was occuring, attempted to intercept the traitor armada now headed for the coreworld, but none could withstand the archaic forces of the Xevoxite's guns.
The Traitors, only two days trip out from the first ring of defenses, had little time to maneuver and plan. Breaking through the defenses of a Legion's homeworld would be no easy task, but that is not to say it could not be done. Warships of the XXth Legion translated in-system shortly after the first fringe engagements, and both the XXth and VIth Legion traitors were accompanied by vast hosts of Imperial Armymen.
The first days of naval engagement were brutal and violent, but the Xevoxite proved more than capable of barrelling through the Legion's defenses. Tens of thousands perished in tight-fought naval duels and violent boarding actions, and the agri-world of Seelow was reduced to a charred husk, several billion souls sacrificed in an almost ritualisticly genocidal manner, unbecoming of the once icy, calculating von Kreimann. And yet it was not enough.
The breakthrough of Rheigmarkch's direct orbital stations would not come from forcing a weak point or battering a hole in the line. Rather, the third moon, Rhonne, was knocked off its usual orbital course by mass firepower, leaving its surface a cratered husk. Drop Pods descended its tortured skies, Legionairres of the VIth butchering the shocked remnants of the world's defenders.
>con't

>>54705965
Rhonne careened into Rheigmarkch's second moon after several torturous daysmof seige. The cataclysmic impact tore a hole in the defenses of the VIth Legion's homeworld, through which poured the Traitorous hordes. But the Markchians would not give up so easily.
Backed by several maniples of the Legio Noaxorui, five Legions of Arkite Cybernetica, and roughly 200 Astartes of the IXth Grand Battallion, the fanatical Sturmsoldaten regiments stood fast. The ground war was more deadly by several degrees than that in the void, with tens of thousands perishing on either side every day. The defenders of Rheigmarkch held, but only barely. Every hour saw them slip closer to the abyss of defeat. It would take a miracle to save the VIth Legion's home.
>con't tomorrow because boy howdy am I pooped

>>54693290
XD
Yeah, looks about right.

>>54693132
Thanks. The long story was from the early phases when it wasn't so clear.

>>54705238
Zelby first, Einchurt gets the one after.

>>54705238
An interesting take on the Mechanicum, I like them.

>>54705498
Getting a bit of cross-legion corruption here. Nice. The whispers of Hashut must be tempting for many.

>>54705965
>Aestran's Folly
Is that like a mini-Isstvan? Also, the XXth moving in to aid them doesn't really work, considering the XXth exclusively fights on in Sep space.

>>54706113
>Blowing up moons
They may be filthy traitors, but I like their style.

>>54708961
Yeah, it's where Marius shows his hand and gets rid of his Loyalists by bombarding them when they're engaged in building-to-building fighting against the Dusk Phantoms.

And I guess the XXth showing up doesn't really work, I'll modify it to be someone else once I compile it all

>>54710161
Is that part of the Elcoa Muster Massacre or a subsequent campaign?
I'm also liking where >>54705238
is going.

Speaking of, actually.
>Timeline
>Lambach and Gyahdred meet up. Things go poorly. Battle of Grethor.
>Gyahdred tries to warn people of chaos, gets largely ignored
>Tries to meet with Einchurt
>Einchurt doesn't buy the whole chaos thing and Gyahdred activates his brutal contingency plan.

Sound about right?


>>54702291
Had been thinking the Dusk Phantoms spread out across the Union, establishing forges and watch-fortresses, one of which is in the Talassar system, where Gyatso is recruited sometime before m41. It'd also allow the >>54658957 Kya-Non Sangha to stop in for resupply.

>>54710750
It's a subsequent campaign.
And that sounds right, Einchurt is more fixated with the issue on hand, and he doesn't view the forces of Chaos very seriously, having brought compliance to various cult-worlds

It pains me to have to announce that, after a lengthy discussion on Discord, Rokuten has decided to step back from the project.

He cited that he had simply begun to lose interest in the project, not helped by the fact he's banned from the site until at least the end of the month.

In the grand scheme of things, it might be for the best. While it's unfortunate to see Rokuten go, especially since he was one of the first Primarchs we were able to lay our eyes on, but the Ogre Legion weren't particularly intertwined into events anyway. They even seemed to clash with the other Separatists, which would've been a completely different can of worms.

This does mean we have our XXIst legion slot available again. Perhaps one of the people over on Discord that doesn't have a legion yet, the Adeptus Terra, can pick up the torch. Or perhaps there's someone reading this very post (YES YOU, I AM TALKING TO YOU), that's interesting in jumping in? If so, feel free to post what you have.

As for Rokuten, he'll still be over on Discord, now as part of the Adeptus Terra, but the Ogre Legion has already been removed from the doc.

>>54712646
Well that's some shit.

One thing I'd personally prefer is that if someone else jumps in, they keep the Ogre Legion as-is. The Hektor guys had all kinds of problems when a new author would take over, they always wanted to slash and burn to replace with their own personal ideas, and it turned everything into gibberish where no one could remember who had replaced who.

It also made updating anything external that involved that Legion impossible, because anyone who'd written Legion X into a story or event now had to go back, uproot everything they'd done, and try to shoehorn Legion Y in, if it was even possible.

Also we have the Primarch image already, and it seems an awful shame to ditch that, since Rokuten *did* go to the trouble of commissioning it.

>>54713266
Yes, I did discuss that with him, but we have decided it is best to just phase the Ogre Legion out entirely. Rokuten cares deeply about his legion, and I can imagine not wanting to leave something like that in someone else's care.

Luckily, I don't think that Rokuten's XXIst was featured anywhere, so we won't have to go back and change anything, really.

The portrait is truly a shame, yes, but it is what it is. Perhaps we'll see the Ogre Legion come back in another AU.

Right now, we're gonna try to get a couple of interested anons over on our Discord to write up a concept and post them here.

>>54713426
Well, I guess if you're both confident in the decision then that's good enough for me.

>>54702291
Regarding this, I'm on the fence about where the Steel Souls should go. Their current lore has them spending a lot of time on the Galactic Fringe doing shit, and when they do come further inward to go fuck around on Terra they get slapped around pretty hard and haul ass back across the Ruinstorm. They're also a fairly insular, "clannish" Legion.

This seems to indicate the Souls would build their empire somewhere in the Fringe, though that does put them rather distant from most conflicts.

To counter that, I wonder if the Souls should make their capitol world Sotha, where the Pharos was uncovered. It might make sense for the most psyker-prevalent Legion to take charge of the Pharos on the Separatists' behalf, and with its scrying abilities the Souls could remain physically distant yet still involved with the other Legions, by predicting when and where they need to show up for maximum benefit.

Is this logical?

>>54713527
Sotha makes sense, yeah. Have you read all the Imperium Secundus books?

>>54714224
No, I don't own any of the 40k books.

>>54714321
Ah, shit, I was hoping you had so I could nod in agreement while you were explaining all the intricacies of the Pharos device to me.

Putting the Souls on Sotha will mean that they'll be the first hit by the time the Tyranids come knocking. That'll be fun.

>>54714369
Yeah, probably. It'll also probably be about where their story ends, too.

The Tyranids and their Shadow In The Warp are practically tailor-made to hard counter everything the Steel Souls do. If we ever get to writing the modern 40k era, that might be a good bookend to cap them off with.

I guess that's a good punitive tradeoff for the power level that a working Pharos provides, maybe.

>>54714443
bump because page 10 and also because goddamnit I can only write new lore so fast lol.

>>54716669
Haven't had much to go on for Legio XXI. Currently awaiting suggestions.

Otherwise we could move ahead with a community legion. Kincaid suggested an African Warlord/Shaka Zulu Primarch.

>>54716752
Community Legions only work when people are writing a LOT more than what we've been able to muster these past several weeks, I think. I've never seen a community Legion succeed and so I am loathe to approve of such an idea.

(Also Shaka Zulu the Primarch feels like it can only draw WE WUZ KANGS trolls out of the woodwork, and I'd just as soon not deal with that personally)

>>54716881
I agree with you it's far from ideal. I've heard from several legionless anons that they're thinking or writing something up.

>>54717165
Well, we've certainly got some time before a decision has to be made. Hopefully someone will craft an idea they feel like putting some real work into.

>>54717208
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DBYKDJBBK44DydxyDIDD4Alou3IEhfC0YJCiHSYZKtU/edit?usp=sharing

WHOOOOO baby. Stretching them writing legs again.

This is my idea for the Steel Souls (And Emil's) final fate.

tl;dr, they all get eaten by Tyranids. But maybe they make their last moments worthwhile.

This story does have some implications for the Tyranids lore-wise, and it does imply that Emil lives to M40-41 (presumably he spends a lot of time in isolation tending to his own Legion rather than Galactic affairs, which I've implied in this story), so I'd definitely like group input on this before finalizing it. I think it ties things up pretty nicely though.

Thoughts?

>>54717208
Yeah, I reckon it's better to have legions start as someone's personal project than have them start as community projects cause they'll probably end up with less development that way.

The Chain Wardens

Of those companies of the Iron Guard attached to other legions, none would be as infamous as thoe who operated alongside the XX legion. When the Forge Lords turned against the Imperium, those elements, later known as the Chain Wardens, served as enforcers of Mot Hadad's will. Wherenever rebellion arose in the Brazen Domains, it would face bloody purge at the hands of the Wardens. However, hailing from a Separatist legion, they would never have full confidence in Mot Hadad's eyes, who saw them as more expandable troops to use when Forge Lords could saw more deserving action elsewhere.

>>54717208
I think at the start of the next thread advertise it? It'll be easier to see at the start of a yhread for skimming anons. Also some fresh blood might serve to reinvigorate us a bit. As some of our writers have dropped off and almost only ever post in discord.
Also I'll read your story as soon as I wake up properly man.

>>54718158
Yeah, that's the main reason I don't like Discord. If everyone disappears to their little corner of the Internet, the threads get so slow and content-less that interest rapidly dwindles. It's happened to multiple projects I've been a part of.

Discord's a great tool, but I truly, truly, truly believe it's poisoned fruit for taking things to completion. Same thing applies to Skype and any other chat program. You talk and talk and talk, maybe things get decided or maybe not, and then it just fades into the ether with everyone feeling like they did something, but actually accomplishing little or nothing on a permanent basis.

That's always been my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, anyway.

>>54639397
Question for all concerned:

Since the Separatists are forming their own mini-empires to create the "confederation", how large/powerful/etc should these empires be as a rule of thumb? How much is too much? How many worlds should they control on average?

>>54719392
1/14th of what the OU of the Imperium of man has, I suppose.

>>54719442
That's... *almost* helpful?

>>54719489
Although, let's do some back of the envelope math.

We know there's 5 Segmentums, so in theory a single Separatist mini-empire should have 1/14th that, ish, which is roughly 1/3rd of one Segmentum.

Supposedly there's about a thousand Chapters at any one time in the OU Imperium, so 1/14th of that'd be about 66 full Chapters (66,000 Marines) available to each Sep Legion. Whether they split into Chapters or not is presumably up to each individual Sep.

And likewise, each Loyalist Chapter would probably have their original + roughly 65 Successors at any given time, which seems reasonable considering the feel of canon successors.

(Traitor Warbands would have numbers in accordance with the demands of plot, as per the usual. No one tracks how many Traitors there are, especially not Traitors themselves. All is as the Gods have ordained)

Human auxilia.... Shit I dunno. There's gazillions of Guard regiments. 1/14th of a shitload is still a shitload?

Naval assets are also hard to call.

>>54719740
I think there'd be more marines because there are more threats, what with that civil war.

>>54718244
Agreed.

>>54713426
Unfortunate, but understandable.

>>54719392
I was thinking more of a state where several legions collaborated on areas. Emil's projects, for example, are all across the region.

>>54719902
Well, you also have to keep in mind that all 3 empires are going to be more fragmented, more frequently penetrated and engaged, and have less net resources to draw on.

I wouldn't think our AU would be very conducive to going above and beyond the OU in terms of amassing Marines particularly.

Sorry, I've been at a concert.

So with Roku down for the count and a gaping whole in our roster, Dr. Raj and I have cooked up a preliminary idea for a replacement legion. Now to avoid butthurt over "Gee Billy, how come Mom let's you have TWO legions?", we were thinking about having a community legion where everyone gets to pitch in with ideas, and a few people do the actual writing (because let's be honest, that's what's gonna happen)

The idea is thus

>African Legion, with a Primarch inspired by Shaka Zulu

>Legion fights against the Imperium in the end to fight it's colonization of their unexplored worlds

>Fredrick convinces the Primarch to bend knee to the Emperor, alluding to French exploration of Africa

>Legion is highly mobile light infantry

>>54720374
As far as my thoughts on the matter, see: >>54716881

>>54720374
I like this, yes. I assume we're waiting on other ideas before deciding, but this seems cool. I can definitely see a neat blending of ideas, what with the organized Zulu state and their role at the edge.
This could give them a compassion for humanity that leads them to be order bringers, liking Gyahdred's efficient management techniques.

>>54718244
I get what you mean, but the way I see discord is, without it those anons who never post here would probably be completely lost, with no way of cantacting them. Atleast having them in discord gives us more active writers a chance to ask them questions and fill in blanks.
I think without the discord channel this project may have died in it's infancy, if I'm honest.

File: 2 Primarchs.jpg (18 KB, 285x177)

18 KB JPG

>>54720374

>>54720825
I mean, you very well might be right. All I'm speaking from is personal anecdotal experience.

>>54719392
We could just give them the 500 worlds of the Ulrimar system, that seems simple enough right?

>>54720869
You mean stick all 7 Separatist Legions into Ultramar?

>>54720885
It could be expanded as we need, but what I mean is using those worlds as the core of their Imperium. And bloat it out from there?

>>54720933
Well, Ultramar has an abundance of systems yes, but it's also still very small in the Galactic sense of things.

I've always viewed the Ultramar worlds in their prime as roughly analogous to the Battletech Inner Sphere, occupying a few hundred lightyears from one side to the other. Which is still very very very very small compared to Ultima Segmentum.

If the Seps are very concentrated around Ultramar and its environs, the rest of Ultima will fall to the Loyalists/Traitors by default since there won't be a Sep force for a hundred sectors in any direction.


The Steel Souls are probably going to set up shop on Sotha as I described earlier, which is part of the Ultramar area in canon, so there's probably not much need for other Legions to cover that zone. After all, until the Tyranids show up not a whole lot of conflict ocurrs there compared to the rest of Ultima Segmentum. The Seps would probably view it as a relative backwater.

>>54720635
I don't really see any validity in your first claim considering most of the legion pages are unfinished, yet we all have a pretty clear understanding of what legion is what and how they all work and operate.

As for the second, who gives a fuck.

>>54720694
I just feel an African Primarch would be interesting as it's nothing I've personally seen done before. For extra layers, we could give him Black Man with Lightening Powers. /co/ memes aside, it harkens back to Shango, the Kenyan(?) God of thunder. Basically black Thor, which I think would be cool.

I basically have all that's necessary for Shaka Primarch prepped and ready in my head, just waiting for a go ahead and input from the group.

But if that doesn't please, here's some other ideas

>Basically make a Sanguine Shields legion, but this time with 100% less retardation. Essentially Macedonian assault marines

>Forgo historical memes for pop culture ones instead, I don't know what I'd want to do, but it would be 80's. Maybe have a second go at the Dreameaters, essentially Rave marines with a heavy focus on chemical warfare, psycholical operations, and literal terrorism.

>A complete support legion. Medics, mechanics, and intelligence operators, essentially useless by themselves, but an extreme force multiplier when coupled with another force

And lastly

>Maybe just have a lost legion

Well, seeing as there is a hole, I did come up with this idea: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CAb9Lj9B3bk8jU37Qb2IbdewGf0sU2WTIEIHxOZZQrI/edit#

>>54722043
Oh the ideas never stop. Here are some more, mostly based off of failed homebrew ideas, and some loose scraps that can be integrated into any idea

>Iron Wardens legion >>54668509

>Primarch is extremely mutated, essentially Killer Croc. Legion is based of off Haitian Creole and Louisina Creole culture, with Hoodun and voodoo influences. Tactics are mounted (animals) warfare and terror tactics, exceedingly self sustaining

>Abhuman lovers, generic otherwise but the Primarch is an eclectic collector of Mutants

>Legion and Primarch gets wipped out fairly early, leaving a few survivors that are extremely specialized and exceedingly efficient

>Air-Cav/Airforce marines, good for fighting on world's without terra firma

>Legion? What legion, there is no legion. Or Primarch. Stop asking questions. Hydra Dominatus

>Post-Apoc/Mad Max marines, haggard, mean, and always with shitty, broken equipment, these guys are savages and love it. Will rape your cities and burn your women, then take all your gubbins before anyone can yell at them

>>54722233
A stealth legion with ambiguous loyalties would be cool.

>>54722269
Cheeky.

>>54722320
...I'm not sure what I referenced, but I assure you it was unintentional.

>>54722340
Hydra Dominatus

File: alphalegion.jpg (68 KB, 413x357)

68 KB JPG

>>54722340

>>54722043
>Sanguine Shields
Hektor's legion.

>Pop culture memes
Please for the love of God no.

>Support Legion
Cool idea, but any such Legion would have never been permitted. Legions have to carry their own burdens.

>>54722233
>Voodoo Mutant Legion
That might be kind of interesting.

>Abhuman Lovers
Blend that with Voodoo Dudes?

>Primarch-less Legion
THAT I like. Space Marine: Hard Modo. No benefits, no rewards in exchange for losing the Primarch, just pain. Feel the struggle, live the heroism. Lamenters 2.0

>air cav
I've written that Legion before. I got yelled at every time. People seem to STRONGLY disagree with the concept.

>Post Apoc
Might go well with Voodoo + Abhuman themes. Swamp Mutant Marines with the human version of Ork-tech and Weirdboy juju to hold themselves together? Maybe they've got "Wild Magic" type psychic powers they don't really control, and that's where their mutations come from?

Might be cool.

>>54722233
>>Abhuman lovers, generic otherwise but the Primarch is an eclectic collector of Mutants
>>Legion gets hit hard, leaving a few survivors that are extremely specialized and exceedingly efficient
>>Legion? What legion, there is no legion. Or Primarch. Stop asking questions. Hydra Dominatus
>>Post-Apoc/Mad Max marines, haggard, mean, and always with shitty, broken equipment, these guys are savages and love it. Will rape your cities and burn your women, then take all your gubbins before anyone can yell at them

Actually these can all be consolidated and used together as a modifier to the other legion concepts, which would be cool. Legion gets hit hard, supposedly looses a lot of marines, and is strapped for parts, equipment, and men, creating an aggravated and mean fighting force, while relying on auxilia that no one else really wants to associate with, i.e. mutants.

It's perfect.

For example, with these guys, >>54722082, it would explain why there are so few In the Sacred Band HkH ptsd flashbacks, and the Primarch presents himself as a heroic figure, but behind closed doors he's a scheming manipulator, with a ghost legion of off the books marines playing his games of intrigue. And with the Macedonian theme, the Sanguine Shields thing is basically already there. The Post Apoc themes may not mesh all too well, as they did with the Shields, but being frayed at the ends logistically makes sense for a legion that got smashed hard.

The same could go for any of these concepts >>54722043

>>54722743
Legion starts off strongly, are exemplars of what Marines should be. Well trained, highly skilled, well equipped. Everyone expects greatness from them, as do they themselves.

Legion loses Primarch unexpectedly. Shit starts going wrong.

They start mutating, start losing control of their powers, all kinds of shit. Tech starts going haywire.

They become tarnished and savage, desperately trying to hold shit together as they develop a wholly new culture.

?????

Profit.

>>54722743
I actually really liked that idea of them being hit so hard. I don't think all of them need to be meshed but the small legion that is extremely specialized is nice.

The rest I'm not entirely sure on simply because I'm not entirely sure how it meshes with the Seps. I viewed Malchus as being very paternalistic towards humans and protective so that could extend to abhumans, specifically if its abhumans and not just mutants.

>>54722743
The African Legion would be tactically proficient light infantry anyway, and shifting focus into espionage and infiltration while playing dead wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Then after the Brother War, the ghost marines remain on the playing field, since Shango/Shaka doesn't really have any loyalties to any but himself, he has a legion of operatives playing all sides in the shadows so he doesn't loose political favor with the Seps. A little less ambiguous than the Alpha Legion but the concept is more coherent. Being African, being run ragged equipment and personnel wise makes too much sense, and could be another reason why the Primarch snaps and turns on the Imperium.

With the Creole Crocs, the stuff is way too thematically coherent and perfect, so I won't waste my time explaining it.

>>54722824
Depends whether or not they just straight up resent the entire universe for their situation and take it out on everyone, or if they're trying to at least be "Noble" savages, as the saying goes.

One way they're the Separatist Separatists, allied only in the loosest sense and halfway to Traitor status in the eyes of everyone.

The other way they're sort of on a perpetual Penitence Crusade of their own making, charging headlong into the worst battles with a smile on their twisted mutant lips.

Either one could be cool.

>>54722650
I'm all for a primarchless legion.

>>54722650
>>Sanguine Shields
>Hektor's legion.
>Hektor has a monopoly on Macedonia

Also, this >>54722082 and >>54722743

>>Pop culture memes
>Please for the love of God no.
While I hate your knee-jerk reaction, I think I answered my own proposition with the Mad Max idea, so whatever.

>>Support Legion
>Cool idea, but any such Legion would have never been permitted. Legions have to carry their own burdens.
Fair point, concept redacted

>>Primarch-less Legion
>Lamentors 2.0
This is a really good point, I didn't even realize the potential. As I said in my combo epiphany post, this can act as a great modifier to any legion, EXCEPT the Zulu one, that legion needs the strong Shaka Zulu figure head to make the concept whole, I feel. And even then, if we combine that with the Alpha Legion idea, then we don't even need to have his death be for sure.

>>air cav
>I've written that Legion before
Wait, did you write that in HkH?
>>Post Apoc
>Wild Magic mutations
Dope idea, again could be meshed with ease with any legion. Crocs it's voodoo bullshit, Zulu it's African magic bullshit, Sacred Band it's classic Greek pantheon being assholes bullshit. For extra suffering points they could have this go down when the Primarch goes down, as far as the Crocs and Band are concerned.

>>54722983
>Wait, did you write that in HkH
That is correct.

>>54722806
>Legion starts off strongly, are exemplars of what Marines should be. Well trained, highly skilled, well equipped. Everyone expects greatness from them, as do they themselves.
>Legion loses Primarch unexpectedly. Shit starts going wrong.
>They start mutating, start losing control of their powers, all kinds of shit. Tech starts going haywire.
>They become tarnished and savage, desperately trying to hold shit together as they develop a wholly new culture.
>?????
>Profit.

This is great. It sounds like we have three, maybe four if Kamarov comes forth with Polynesian marines, ideas floating around, but this is a great baseline concept. I would add the Alpha Legion esque shadow legion, and if the Primarch dies, the hidden survivors are a machination of the new legion commander, and if they don't, they are a tool of Vengeance or manipulation by the Primarch.

For the Zulu the only thing you have you change is the Primarch dying, and their mutation could be uncontrollable psychic powers, or a genetic/spiritual plague AIDS/Ebola reference. This isn't a joke, and it wouldn't be written as one. For the Creole Crocs, they could become scalies like their Primarch. For the Sacred Band it could be a wasting disease, or leprosy, so they aren't mutants as much as they are martyr heroes.

>>54722824
I have a huge hard on for meshing them all because it's the greatest idea I've ever had and I'm going crazy over it.

>>54722934
Well the Band doesn't even need to go savage, just worn the fuck down and bitter like the Iron Warriors.

>>54722974
Well, all Legions would have a Primarch. This one would just either have died shortly after joining his Legion, or have died before ever being found. Either could be very interesting.

>>54723052
Wait...KALIGORE?!

>>54722974
>>54723086
No no no no, I need the Primarch to die in the line of duty.

And the more I think about it, the less Shaka needs to live, and more how a bitter successor needs to take his place. Oh by god, it's perfect.

But why do I need him to die after being found? Because the Legion needs a symbol to rally behind, and every side needs a Martyr.

The Loyalists want a Saint after all is done, the Separatists want evidence against the Imperium, and the Traitors want a body they can fill to the brim with Daemons

Every side wants the dead Primarch to be their symbol, and the Legion wants everyone to go fuck themselves because he was their dad first and foremost.

>>54723190
Not sure who Kaligore is, I don't remember him.

>>54723190
Also, dying in the line of duty is not necessarily excluded by dying soon after he joins.

>>54723190
Feel like you're kinda running away with this.

Yeah I'm redacting any claim that the Zulu need a Primarch. Shaka would serve best as a symbol of times gone, and if I have my way and the Alpha Legion stuff gets thrown in I'm begging you guys, then he might not even have to be dead for real. Or maybe he is. Or isn't. I am Alpharius. Or maybe he can live on as a psychic thunderstorm, summoned up by his warriors Sanguinor style.

For the Crocs it works perfectly, both the slowly mutating into the creature their Primarch was, and going full hog into voodoo post Apoc marines

I'm not a huge fan of the Sacred Band, especially since that EXACT name was used for the proto-legions in HkH, but if we do decide to use them, they could be like the Lamentors, noble and tragic, except no one shits on them personally. If we want to go "flesh change" wild magic mutation once the Primarch goes down, Darkest Dungeon Leper style wouldn't be a bad way to go

>>54723269
Vietnam Air-Cav Primarch. Falls to Khorne. Not really here nor there

>>54723292
I don't think it should be too soon. Maybe right before Nikaea.

The Primarchs death, especially if we go Shango/Shaka, could be caused by Perils of the Warp in a last ditch effort to destroy the enemy. Summons a Red Spot sized storm or something. Croc could be doing sorcery or something. I don't see Sacred Band Primarch doing wizard shit.

But you do it too soon and the Primarch becomes a joke. Too late and the Legion isn't able to S U F F E R enough, but it would make it easier to ghost away a moderate amount of marines for Alfa Leejun shenanigans, since more planning could go into it

>>54723430
>>54723315
I chose the name as its a Carthage thing. We were talking about sons of the Primarchs concept in chat, could use that as well as the lost primarch concept.

>>54723550
Let's not.

There's not precedent for it in the lore, and I don't want to be the one to set it.

I was thinking that a Kalibornian could claim his father was Kinnévail, and use that to try and grab power

>>54723430
I look at the "too soon" option and I don't see a joke, I see someone who's brutally shown to not have plot armor. Which can be a very valuable storytelling tool, just look at how everyone goes nuts over Game of Thrones not pulling punches when killing everyone off.

You kill a Primarch off when he's just beginning to rise to prominence among his men, while the Legion is still clay waiting to be molded and fired in the kiln?

There's a fuckton of pathos to be mined from that, and a huge wealth of character exploration angles to be examined that are completely untapped by canon Legions, and doubly so by homebrew Legions.

It's the inverse of special snowflaking, killing off "your dude" before you get the chance to play with your toy. Who has the courage to do that?

Not many, in my experience.

So that's kind of my take on the whole thing, I suppose. It really sounds like an amazing challenge, to write with both hands tied behind your back and see what develops from it.

Bumping and requesting some explanation of wtf happened here

>>54725828
Looks like Rokuten left and now there is some bouncing of ideas around for a replacement legion. Don't lnow if anything solid has been put down yet?

>>54720869
>>54720885
>>54720933
>>54721022
>54721022
Ultramar really isn't that big; not nearly big enough for 7 legions to set up their stuff. The idea is that the Seps take a large chunk of the Ultima Segmentum, waaay more than just Ultramar.

>>54722043
I'd rather not do a community legion. It's better to just find an anon that's willing to pick it up, which I have no doubt we'll find.

>Sanguine Shields
Meh, never liked them all that much in the first place

>Dreameaters
Maybe, though won't that just end with samurai marines again?

>Support legion
The Marchers are already a support legion in the sense that they back up other legions. As for the pure support divisions, I think it's cool, but it's something that I don't think our lineup needs right now.

>Lost Legion
Anything but a lost legion

>>54722233
>Iron Wardens
We shouldn't import from other threads

>Voodoo Killer Croc Primarch
This is actually pretty cool.

>Abhuman lovers
Doesn't sound like a legion that would go Sep though.

>Dead Primarch during the Crusade
Terrible idea. That would lead to everyone considering that Primarch to be a little bitch, and it would just result in that legion being disbanded and spread out across other legions.

>Air cav
Done too many times to count

>Alpha Legion
Do I even need to respond to that?

>Mad Max
Wasn't that kind of what the Sanguine Shields were already?

>>54722743
You're folding my least favorite of your concepts together. So that's a no from me.

>>54723086
>>54723190
>>54722974
>>54723315
Like I said before, the Primarch dying during the Crusade will lead to that Primarch being considered a little bitch, and the legion getting disbanded. Hell, they even tried to do that to the Blood Angels after Sanguinius was seemingly lost early on during the Heresy.

I also think it's good to just take a step back and let new anons take a swing. You've got great ideas, but I think we should leave them be for now. Next AU man. Next AU.

>>54722082
Alright, let's check this out.

>Sacred Band
That's not really your fault, but that's a name that carried some weight in the Hektor Heresy. Might have to find something else.

>Color scheme
Loads of colors that are already prevalent in other legions schemes, namely the Forge Lords and Pale Hounds. Let's see if we can find a scheme that's more unique.

>Legion tactics
Small legion with a heavy focus on close quarters combat and coordinated force.
I like the small legion bit, but I think that 'close quarters focus' is pretty damn basic.

>Visuals
I'm kind of burnt out on legions with a culture based on ancient Civs. But that might just be me.

>>54726994
Well, originally, I was thinking close-order combat, lots of shields and spears, but I get you about being tired of ancient civs.

Small Elite Strike Force with a more modern feel might work better, admittedly. Drop the work with Auxiliaries to avoid Ussaran thing.

>>54726994
>let new anons take a swing
Yeah let's get some new blood in/let one of the adeptus Terra have a go. Also, Might be a little daunting for some people to come in to the thread to suggest their legion and see dozens of ideas from people already in control of legions in the project.

>>54723918
It shouldn't be too soon. That's that. Every one is going to give you push back on this

>>54725828
Read this post >>54720374 and read down, catching up

>>54726922
>I'd rather not do a community legion. It's better to just find an anon that's willing to pick it up, which I have no doubt we'll find.
Then guess what well have to do then fucker. Unless people won't reeee when I pick up the banner. I'm falling out if love with the Doomsingers anyway

>>Sanguine Shields
>Meh, never liked them all that much in the first place
If we go Sacred Band, and incorporate them getting run into the dirt, the result would be effectively the same

>>Dreameaters
>Maybe, though won't that just end with samurai marines again?
They were Cyberpunk Yakuza Terrorists

>>Iron Wardens
>We shouldn't import from other threads
I've decided it would be easier to make them Forge Lord successors. And if you truly believed that we shouldn't import failed ideas from other threads, Roku wouldn't have gotten in in the first place.

>Abhuman lovers
>Doesn't sound like a legion that would go Sep though.
But literal Hereteks would? Xenos tolerators would? The Seps are the reasonable-ish (More sane than anyone else, for the most part) faction. Not freaking out about mutants sounds fine.

>Dead Primarch during the Crusade
>Terrible idea
If you had read my posts, you would note that the idea isn't contingent on the death of the Primarch, simply an extreme loss in men. However, I stand by the validity of a Primarchless legion. Legions DID survive without a Primarch for a while, the Doomsingers themselves not getting one until dead last, yet still operating as a legion. All you need is plot shenanigans you prevent that from happening, or fuck it and let the Legion get spread out and deal with the narrative consequences. Let's have some balls with our material. And if the Primarch dies after a reasonable time in the proper circumstances, he won't be a bitch, he'll be a martyr, as I've already said.

>>54726922
>>54728468

>>Alpha Legion
>Do I even need to respond to that?
Yeah I think you do. It's a valid idea, and its not too hard to do, and passive aggression isnt going to diminish it

>>Mad Max
>Wasn't that kind of what the Sanguine Shields were already?
Eh. It was wierd, they were more Macedonian and it never meshed well. I'm saying ditch the historical cultural themes and go full on techno barbarian. But now I'm kind of married to the idea that after punishing losses, the XXth becomes ragged dark horses, not necessarily Post Apoc, but the themes of desolation and desperation are there.

>>54726994
>but I think we should leave them be for now. Next AU man. Next AU.

I'm attempting to fill the narrative needs of the AU.

You deride me for attempting to steer away from the true spirit of Warhammer by allowing the faith to spread beyond humanity, but where is the black Primarch? Where are is the shadow legion of ambiguous loyalties.

The first point is important because the Primarchs represent humanity in broad strokes, with nearly every culture represented in one way or another, even if it's small and hamfisted, in the Primarchs. Know, I know Vulkan's was really more a deal if him being mutated and irradiated, but in most representations, his features are NOT that of a white dude.

And what is more 40k than the Alpha Legion and the paranoia they sow in universe, and the laffs we get because of that. I'm not saying we need to copy them 1:1, but that's a hole that needs to be filled, since we're so adherent to the spirit of the OU

>>54728468
Everyone, or just you lol? :P

>>54726922
>Ultramar really isn't that big; not nearly big enough for 7 legions to set up their stuff
Yes, that is pretty much what I was saying.

>>54730078
My suggestion was to give the Seps most of the Ultimate Segmentum, not all, but most. I think the Imperium should he slightly bigger. Ultramar should he 'federal space', a neutral ground where the 7 states congregate.

Also, I've been talking with Behemoth. He's looking into a Primarch that's a great economist, basically a Rogue Trader. That would be very useful in the Confederate Union.

>>54730078
Everyone. >>54726994 >>54726922

If you think Doc and I would be alone in this, then you're wrong. But that's neither here nor there, the situation has evolved beyond anyone's influence.

>>54730143
Well, I'm still pretty certain I'm going to put the Steel Souls' capitol on Sotha. Hopefully that doesn't disrupt your plans too much.

>>54730547
It does appear that way.

>>54726922
Yeah, I was thinking they could control much of the galactic True east and south east and have foot holds in the true south and north east while the imperium basically controls the whole of the galaxy west of the maelstrom.

>>54730642
Federal space doesn't need to be huge. Macragge alone could be enough.

>>54732871
Having Ultramar as Federal Spess looks logic to me. There, you may have some agri-worlds that suply for the whole Confederation, manufactorums...

Kinda common facilities there, if someone needs a hand. If we do not follow this, MacRage is enough then

>>54719740
The Pale Hounds do kinda split, but it's less like they shatter and more that they start shedding marines. I reckon there's still around 23k marines left within the hounds as of M41, but the other 43k are spread across a variety of different chapters (some numbering more than a thousand others less) across Hound controlled space.

Alright, after some talk and ideas, I decided to scrap the Sacred Band, as yet another ancient culture made marines was a bit done and it had other issues, but got inspired to do this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OQAVTtWquKvhOsUkyIyeqVSNFsAwN3CNCzl41GdYL0U/edit?usp=sharing

Needs name work but the basic jist of 'what if a primarch was a Rogue Trader' and elite Baroque Tactical Marines sort of meshed, with bits of the old Mali Empire for flavor rather than focus.

>>54736267
Probably impossible, given how neophytes have to be specifically chosen to accept the implantation progress. Abhumans likely aren't within the same tolerances.

>>54736285
Okay, was just wondering if Beastman/Ogryn space marines could be a thing. Suppose it being impossible might not stop people trying.

I for one, am for a new person being let in on the project. Like anon said, let some new blood in and keep this fresh.
That's all I have to say about this, really

>>54737499
That ship has sailed, someone changed Behemoth's name and move him to the Seps

>>54736360
It's not impossible. Very, very few things in 40k are *impossible*. I'm sure that if the Emperor wanted to, he could have elevated an Ogryn child or three to Space Marine status.

Probably at absurd cost. Probably with custom tailored methods. Probably not repeatably. Probably with a success rate well below the already minuscule Marine creation rate with the regular process.

*An* Ogryn Marine almost certainly could be a thing. A *Legion* of them, or even a hundred-man Company, I would argue almost certainly could not.

>>54739359

>>54737499
Hey man, did you get a chance to read the Je'She meeting Lambach short I did earlier, what did you think?

>>54736225
Couple of suggestions for names:
>Roaring Corsairs
Seeing as roaring can mean flourishing, but also refer to the animal themes; their Primarch is the Lion of Manden

>Rogue Corsairs
Taken from the Rogue Traders, but can also refer to their rebellious and decieving nature

>Marqued Corsairs
Derived form the Letter of Marque, considering they're kinda like privateers

>>54736285
>>54736360
>>54739359
Yeah, abhumans and mutants make for exceptionally poor Astartes. I doubt it'd be particularly worth it either.

>>54737971
I think we should wait a bit longer before we fully accept Behemoth's legion. I like them a whole lot, but I want to be fair to anyone else that wants to take a swing at them.

I'll try to pry some ideas from the other anons that have expressed interest. For now, we can be glad that the Corsairs are turning out well.

Well, for an update, got the more finalized names of things and a fair bit of material here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OQAVTtWquKvhOsUkyIyeqVSNFsAwN3CNCzl41GdYL0U/edit?usp=sharing

Got some color schemes and a fair bit of gear, which informs on some battle doctrines too.

>>54744840
Hey mate, I'm at work but I'll give it a read when I get home. 1 thing I will say though is that the colour scheme is fucking sweet. Thumbs up.

Reviving 1 or 2 old thread prompts for people who are either new or missed out on them the first time around.
The first being What does your Primarch's Armour look like?

>>54745368
As Lambach is more of a modest Primarch, not as interested in adornment as some others, his armour is fairly simple, though still of exquisite make. It is the Bone white of the rest of the legion, polished to a near reflective sheen, trimmed by obsidian Black. His guard arm (left) is much more built up and reinforced with armour plating though as he favors using this to bare the brunt of melee strikes against him, while he wields his spear in his right hand. He prefers this built up arm to a shield as it leaves his hand free to either fire the pistol made by Raj, focus a power or wield his weapon two handed. Down the vambrace of his right arm is engraved the name of every captain who has fallen in the Chosen of Hecate crusade, chiseled by the Primarch himself. Lambach very rarely wears a helmet but on the rare occasion that he does for ceremony it would look very much like a greek Centurions. Finally as pretty much his only adornment he usually wears a large, thick cloak that shares the deep, dark green of the Legions robes and fastened around his right shoulder with a bronze Lion head to resemble the Nemean Lion slain by mighty Heracles, one of Miletus favorite folk tales.

File: Raj Vokar_primarch.jpg (3.66 MB, 3508x2480)

3.66 MB JPG

>>54745368
Raj wears massive armor and is decked out with loads of weapons.

The armor itself is a Cataphractii pattern armor, though heavily modified to fit his stature. One of the most noticable changes is an alteration of the torso, with the armor around the head being moved back, as to allow Raj to continue wearing his culturally significant turban. It is equipped with a pair of Cyclone Missile Launchers, but it allows more than enough room for the Titan Lord to carry more wargear into battle, such as his wrist mounted shotguns, built-in flamers and his archeotech pistol, the Kagolus. The legs of the armor are coloured in an eye catching Persian Blue, while the torso, arms and shoulders are painted in a bright Blaze Orange.

>>54744840
The scheme is dope af

>>54745368
Linares wears a Silver Power Armor, engraved with Kadirian tales and sayings, along floral motifs and scenes. He rarely wears a helmet or a cloak, and from the belt, the Silver Slayer's sheath and a very practical stein are hanged. The Flor de Plata is mounted in the left forearm, and some silverish chains and purity seals hang from different parts of the plate.

>>54745368
Valorn's is pretty basic. It's basically a scaled up suit of MKIII armour in the colours of his legion, with very little in the way of adornment, though it is kept exceedingly clean and well repaired. However, he does wear a camo cloak with it, allowing him to sneak past the foe and start blowing their heads off with his rifle from behind their own lines.

Hey Xun, so after

>>54748813
Wierd, rest of my post disappeared.

Anyways, so I know we really like Kinnévail getting roasted by the Librarium, but the Rangdan Xenocides happen like, 100 years before Kincaid is even found, and there's 24 years from his discovery to Nikaea.

So I was wondering if you would be against moving the event of the Librarium blowing up to right before Nikaea.

>>54748931
If there's enough time for Kincaid to radicalize, why not?

>>54749053

>>54744840
Far as I'm concerned, seems legit to me. Although to be fair I'd be happy about damn near any idea no matter how retarded, if the anon writing it would write more than three paragraphs before flaking out.

Lady Karamanov has decided to hold her legion back in order to focus on the Sisters of Battle.

That means that, considering we've not had any other suggestions, we'll be going with Behemoth's Corsairs Gallant, lead by their Primarch Rahman Keita’mansa.

And with that, we're back at 21 legions. Yay.

>>54745368

Emil's armor is solid enough to get the job done, but not as bulky as might be expected for a Primarch's gear. The Primarch preferred mobility over thicker adamantium plates, trusting in his psychic shields to see him through most hazards.

The armor is painted metallic blue with bronze and purple highlights as are the rest of the Steel Souls, and directly interfaces with Emil's psybernetic limbs to provide unparalleled dexterity and fine motor control. The armor also has a powerful psychic hood of Nonimatian design. Many Librarians use devices influenced by this hood's pattern in both the Imperium and the Confederation, since Emil shared its secrets willingly before the Brother's War.

The most notable aspect about his armor is how absurdly ornate it is, being engraved from top to bottom with all manner of psychoreactive filigree in the same manner as a Force Weapon is. Essentially, Emil wears the defensive equivalent of a Force Sword, hardening his full-body carapace well beyond the limits of standard metals through eldritch means.

If Emil really pumps Warp energy into the armor he can use it like a Jump Pack and defy gravity for short leaps.

>>54753086
2 hours later, still the most recent post, new world record lol

>>54747641
Forgot to add, Valorn's only real accessory is a bronze armband bearing his name which has been integrated into his right vambrace. This is part of an old Taigan tradition where warriors would wear bronze bands engraved with their names around their arms as they went into battle. The idea was that, in the event of the wearers death, the name on the band would remind your ghost who it was prior to death, seeing as one might have forgotten ones life due to the trauma of dying. Valorn however just has it to remind him of the home he lost.

So I updated my document finally to include the newer additions to the line up.

>Kinnévail Kincaid
Often times, many of my brothers make the mistake that Kincaid and I are of similar humors and while I do not dislike my brother this assumption could not be farther from the truth. While I do enjoy the more simple pleasures of life Kincaid takes it to the extreme. He is a companionable enough and a friend of mine but I feel that beneath his uncaring facade lurks a spoiled child with an unparalleled dedication to getting his own way.

>Rahman Keita’mansa
I share a lot with Rahman. He was located by our father very soon after myself and just like my Legion his own had virtually been wiped out. I enjoy his company greatly and he is an easy man to speak with though he does at all times seem to have his own agenda. His fiscal talents will be of great use to the Imperium once the crusade is over.

>>54755910
Right but what do you think of the Primarch

>>54756190
hahaha, I was talking about the Primarchs push for religion and his hacking on about not letting me use Psykers. :p

>>54756272
Ah, well I guess Lambach could interpret him that way, but you have to understand, Pre and Post Burned up Kincaid are almost two different people

Pre is Conan+Shakespeare. He could be derided for being unprofessional, duplicitous in that he can be crass one moment and eloquent another, and he's vainglorius in the extreme not when it comes to his own achievements mind, but of those of his sons.

After he's a desperate cripple, driven to extremes by trauma. He's doomsaying, paranoid, hyper self critical, and conniving. But he is always trying to do the right thing. Forming a church was his attempt to cease further splintering, because there where thousands of cults and friction was beginning to ensue.

It's an interesting perspective, but I think fresh and crispy Kinnévail should be accounted for

>>54745368
Einchurt wears Tartaros plate, with minor alterations to accomodate his slightly larger stature. It also features a variety of rebreather, purification, and rad-dump systems, allowing him to wade through the aftermath of all but the most horrific bombardments. The plate is mostly unadorned save for bonding studs and CQC spiking, but does proudly and immaculately bear the symbols of his sons; the numeral VI, the bejeweled Mortikopf, and his own personal symbol, the twinned lightning bolts of the Blitzerius, clasped in the claws of a ebon hawk. His armour proudly bears the same colors as his sons, its dirty and scorched surfaces reflecting the inability of those bearing his gene-code to fully heal their wounds. His armour is by no regular standard beautiful, but in true Markchian fashion, its symbology is more important than its form.

>>54756365
Yeah, Lambach like Kincaid a lot and sees great potential in the qualities of his brother. To a point where everyone thinks they are the same. Which doesn't upset Lambach really, but more I ws trying to point out that despite their similarities Lambach sees the 2 of them as different and considers himself more serious and Kincaid as literally the young sibling.

How does our new Primarch feel about all his brothers?

>>54756848
Been trying to add the info slowly but surely. Have about four bits up thus far.

File: Rest in Spagett-Rokuten.jpg (295 KB, 842x595)

295 KB JPG

>>54757391
You must work faster for the honour of our fallen weeb primarch

>>54706113
>Does today still count as tomorrow? Was busy over the weekend, anyways...

The Central Imperial Command on Rheigmarkch enacted a desperate plan to buy themselves time. Employing every engineer and Tech-Priest available to them, they attempted to reactive many of the dormant weapons left buried in silos beneath the planet's crust, weapons left over from the Dark Age of Technology. Although such a plan was terribly dangerous, it was their only hope of delaying the forces of the Traitors. As the blood of mortals and Astartes soaked the rad-wastes of Rheigmarkch, veterans and neophytes of the VIth Legion spilling blood upon the training grounds of Rhur, the defenders of the Pained World braced themselves for the worst. Rheigmarkch was difficult to attack, its geography and weather inimical to almost all forms of life, but it was not impossible. And if any force could do it, it was the Legiones Astartes.
After weeks of siege, the first blow was struck back against the Traitors. The first of the ancient macro-weapons fired, an immense gravity-distorting cannon. Its initial volley caused several Traitor warships to collapse in upon themselves, annihilating thousands in a single instant of imploding metal and rockcrete. Soon more fired, warheads of unknown origin which set fire to the void, cannons firing streams of un-energy, and silos unleashing swarms of nano-servitors which tore through even metres-thick adamantium. The Traitor fleet was being gutted, and yet they persisted. Unable to effectively land their forces, the heretical armies still upon Rheigmarkch's surface were hunted and executed with impunity by their enraged foes. Yet, even when von Kreimann's xth Legion allies deserted him, fearing the retribution of the newly-arrived Xth Grand Battalion, the Night Hunters persisted. To the eyes of any other, logic had most obviously failed Marius.
And yet, they did not relent. It would be upon the scorched fields of Seelow that the truth was revealed.
>con't

>>54758142
Marius von Kreimann had not yet been present in the fighting since the early boardings of several of the system's defense platforms. This was initially taken as a sign of cowardice and weakness, but the true nature of Chaos was yet to be understood at the time.
To the forces of Chaos, as we understand it from the confessions of several defectors, Rheigmarkch was but a tangentially strategic system. It was too far from any other Imperial world to be a useful launch point for other campaigns, and it would have been of no note if it were not for being a Legion home world. The Sturmsoldaten regiments, while fanatical, had not proved instrumental in the fighting any more so than any other Army formation. In fact, assaulting such a system was considered a larger waste of resources than it was worth, and simply isolating Rheigmarkch would have been much easier than attempting to conquer it.
As such, the assault on Rheigmarkch was not a campaign of conquest, even if Marius von Kreimann's allies believed it was. Rheigmarkch was, in every sense of the word, a sacrifice.
When the Xth Grand Batallion landed on the dead surface of Seelow, they were greeted not with the sons of Einchurt they had expected, but rather monsters wearing their skin and armour. Leading this band of beasts was a creature of singular stature. A creature which spoke in a voice and claimed to itself a name familiar to all who partook in that hellish battle. The voice and name of Marius von Kreimann.
Transformed by the fell powers of Chaos, the ritual fueled by the deaths of millions of mortals and Astartes, the XIth Grand Battalion had become a horde of bat-like horrors, possessed of a malicious, malefic intelligence.
>con't

>>54758329
The truth of the final battle upon the scarred surface of Seelow may never be known, the Xth Grand Battalion severely mauled by their former comrades. The XIth, now known as the Night Haunters, fled the system, abandoning their remaining allies to the retribution of the Markchians.
The Ark Xevoxite was the site of the final conflict to rid the Rheigmarkch system of the Traitors, and such were the horrors unleashed upon the brave souls of the Loyalists that the records of that battle been locked away from the eyes of even a high-ranking scholar such as myself.
Rheigmarkch would stand, blackened but unbeaten.
>fin

Al’akhir Terminators
Behemoths of war, Al’akhir are clad in Cataphractii armour made exclusively in the Harrdid System. These terminator suits have the leather straps replaced by chainmail, with small, artificer shield-repulsors, as well as having chainmail hanging across the neck guard. Each suit is a valuable and highly prized relic of the IXth Legion.

Al’akhir units are designed for one thing and one thing only. Protection of critical objectives. Each terminator is given a round storm shield upon which they are free to customise with personal heraldry and trophies, and a power claw for close quarters combat. Devastating on the battlefield, it has been known for forces to simply surrender at the sight of these incarnations of war charging towards them.

Bump

File: Tyranids_incursions.jpg (176 KB, 960x804)

176 KB JPG

It might be a bit early on, but I'm trying to figure out some stuff relating to the Tyranids and the Pharos.

The Horus Heresy novels establish that it was the use of the Pharos device on Sotha that alerted the Tyranids to the Milky Way. Wheras the Astronomicon serves as a lighthouse, where the device itself serves as a light to navigate around, the Pharos is said to be a lantern, meaning you can change what it's pointing at. Guiliman had it pointed at Macragge, so that those lost in the Ruinstorm could find refuge.

They first show up in the OU in 745.M41, attacking the planet Tyran, which is where they get their name from. Nothing I've read would've suggest that they have any real reason to Tyran, but they do anyway. They then move for Macragge, destroying loads of worlds in their path, which eventually culminates in the Battle for Macragge at the end of the first Tyrannic War.

In 'the last decade of M41', so 40.990-40.999, the Tyranids show up to attack Sotha in the OU. Sotha is pretty much completely destroyed.

The thing I'm noticing is that, despite not having been active for nearly 10 millenia, the 'Nids still moved for the two worlds involved with the Pharos. Not to mention the Pharos drew them to the Milky Way in the first place. If the Steel Souls take up refuge on Sotha and the SCU relies on the Pharos for it's warp travel, would it be crazy to say that the Nids ignore Tyran and b line straight for Sotha and Macragge?

File: Behemoth.jpg (685 KB, 1095x1505)

685 KB JPG

>>54761265
Assuming they first attack Sotha, that'd be devastating. The Steel Souls would not be ready to face such a threat, and would likely be destroyed almost entirely, especially considering all the 'shadows in the Warp' shenanigans. This would also spell the end for the Pharos, whether the Souls destroy it or the Nids do whatever they plan to do with it, and thus cause major issues for the SCU. The second fleet going for Macragge would also be disasterous, causing massive damage to the federal world of the Confederate Union. The Tyranids could spell the doom of the Separatist Confederate Union.

There are a couple of radical changes we could make in relation to the Tyranids.

For one, we could say that the Nids absorb the Pharos or something of that nature. We'd have to decide on what exactly that would do, but I cannot imagine it being pleasant for anyone involved. They'd have an incredibly powerful psychic beacon as part of their biomass.

Secondly, we could, and arguably should, change their name if they don't attack Tyran. If Sotha is the first world they attack, they might be called something like the Sothanids, Sothnids or Sotharrans.

What are you guys' thoughts on the Tyranids? I think they could actually become even more dangerous than they are in the OU, and spell almost certain doom for the Separatists come the End Times. While the Loyalists deal with whatever /w3/'s equivalent to the 13th Black Crusade is, the Separatists are busy fending off an even more dangerous version or the Tyranids.... or Sothanids...

Also, one of our hive fleets needs to be called Hive Fleet Bishop. Not entirely related, just saying

>>54736225
Interesting.
I'll get on opinions presently, but I think Gyahdred likes him a lot, sees him as an example of good leadership.
>>54761276
Yeah, Sothanids are logical. But I think they ought to tell us more about the seps.

>>54761529
Rahman's a good addition, I'm sure you'll agree.

>But I think they ought to tell us more about the seps.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Who ought to tell us more?

>>54761276
>>54761265
Headed to work now, but >>54717740
has what I wrote two days ago regarding how I thought the Souls-Nids fight might go.

>>54761809
That was pretty damn good. Couple of things.

First off, the name. Considering the Pharos gets used all the way up to 40k, it wouldn't be far fetched in my opinion to change their name to something else. Sothanids is awful, but I think it'd be fun to have the Tyranids not be called Tyranids.

Second, the way this is written it seems to kind of spell the end for the Tyranids as a serious threat to Separatists, ended before it could ever become truly dire. I think it'd be more interesting to have the sacrifice of the Steel Souls to just be the first battle in a terrifying war.

Third, I'm a bit worried about how powerful Emil is being portrayed here. I take it that the level of power Emil reaches here is beyond anything he could ever have imagined himself?

>>54761575
Sorry, phone is temperamental.
Anyways, I'm not too fond of the nids dramatically speaking. I think here there's a bit more room for them to be a useful plot device, though I really do think the Dusk Phantoms will wipe them out as soon as as they get their act together. seeing as that's kind of what they've done since the Heresy. It may take a lot of epic opening of sealed vaults, raiding dead worlds that were once depots, etc, but assuming the rest of the Union stalls, the Dusk Phantoms will tear through them. Same thing as if the Nids went up against the combined might of the Death's Heads.
It's like that macro "Let's have a story about the fate of humanity", with xenos screeching in the back ground.
Now, I think there's room for the Tyranid assault to prompt closer ties between the Terrans and the Union, which I think is quite neat, but I don't think it makes much sense for them to wipe a faction. They're not nearly as great a villain as Chaos.
So in the Nid chapter, so to speak, I think what we ought to see is just what the Union does when shit hits the fan. How does their war machine handle that and what do they do with the Terrans?

>>54736225
>Gyahdred on Keita
Basically Keita's policies are a great example of what happens when Primarchs run things directly. I'm thinking the two might be close, or at least that Gyahdred deeply respects Keita.

>>54762396
>>54762396
I agree with you on the Nids not being all that interesting by themselves.

However, I think it we could use the Nids as a force that pushes the Union to it's edge. It would essentially serve as a parallel to the 13th Black Crusade type event happening on the other side of the galaxy.

The horror of these truly alien creatures may lead to the Seps realizing that maybe they should try to patch things up with their fellow human beings. Meanwhile, the Loyalists might realize that they need help as well.

Basically, the Nids could serve as the End Times moment for the Union.

>>54762396
Ironically, they probably might get along but Keita has a fondness for xenos tech (really, any tech; he's just curious and fond of curios) that might run afoul of their xenos-exterminating ways.

That said, they likely compliment each other well in battle, legion wise.

>>54761265
>>54761276
I don't think the absorb the Pharos is needed, but the idea of the Seps having to deal with the Tyranids as a way of keeping them busy seems interesting, particularly if we get the Imperium claiming they're divine judgement until they start nomming on them too.

>>54762396
>>54762503
I think there is avenues to make the nids interesting too, particularly if they develop differently because of different things they encounter and devour. I certainly could see them as a unifying threat, though.

The alternate one is to have them NOT be that, and instead, for whatever reason, actually dealt with more easily, and instead focus on something like the Necrons rising up in greater force, potentially forming an interesting dichotomy of humanity pinned between Chaos on one side and the soulless horror of the Necrons on the other.

>>54761529
>>54762396
Yo >>54748931

>>54762396
>>54762503
The way I look at it is that, they are one of the tabletop armies, I think we need to handle them with respect to the people who are fans of them in the game too, just wiping them out and not having them be the threat they are in 40k feels a bit like spitting on potential fans of out work.
Basically, I personally think people should be able to use our setting to play their games within. Because at the end of the day Fluff and crunch need to work together.

>>54762975
I partly agree.

On one hand, I do feel like we need to Xenos a big enough role in the story. While the big thing is 40k is brotherly loyalty and the folly of man, xenos are necessary to show just how cold and dangerous the universe is.

Now, I don't think it's necessary to just preserve every army that exists in the tabletop; we've already taken out the Tau since we could not justify their existance as a significant power. The Nids however, are still a major problem and one that cannot be swept under the rug.

>>54762944
I think the Necrons are an entirely different problem, one that I have admittably not considered much yet.

>>54763279
The Tau aren't eradicated or anything though. They have been sheltered by Piter. They still exist.
No decision has been made on them by the time 40k rolls around. But they could easily still begin to carve their own empire out at some point.

>>54763644
Oh, I thought our Tau policy was 'FUCK EM'.

Not that I mind, I like the Tau, but if they're conquered by the Seps, I doubt they'd develop into anything resembling the OU Tau.

>>54761265
>>54761276
I like it. Using the 'Nids to keep the Seps busy and act as a catalyst for the Not!Rising Storm makes a lot of sense. I also like that the Seps deal with a massive alien threat while the Imps deal with a massive heretical one (if we go down the 13th black crusade route). Each side dealing with a type of different nemesis kinda highlights their differences

>>54766864
That was my idea, yeah. I thought it'd be cool to have the endgame involve Loyalists, Chaos, Separatists and Xenos. Might even bring the humans closer together.

>>54761995
Yeah, it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond anything Emil's normally capable of.

It's literally him taking his entire Legion, forcing them to push their limits beyond the point of no return, feeding that power to himself where he then pushes his abilities beyond the point of no return, in order to push the Pharos device beyond the point of no return. Something he never would have permitted before (or afterwards, had they survived somehow).

All this is to make one last attempt at doing something, ANYTHING to meaningfully take a swing at the Tyranids, since nothing the Steel Souls and their allies have done to that point has worked.

And even then, it's still beyond Emil and his Legion's abilities, and fails completely. Which leads to the nice "redemption moment" of sorts, where Emil never *really* gets an apology or explanation from the Emperor for the Emperor's actions which set Emil on the path to Separatism (since he would 100% have stayed loyal if Emil didn't feel like he had been cast aside/ignored), but the Emperor *does* intervene in his son's dying moments.

And makes the sacrifice worthwhile.

>>54761995
Oh and also, if you noticed I split hairs a little bit in the story's ending to leave an out for a strong but not quite apocalyptic Tyranid threat to continue.

The Hive Mind is crippled and blind, but some of the Hive Fleets (almost certainly including those who already have strong "lore-Tyranids in the OU like the Swarmlord et al.) continue to evolve and adapt and do their Tyranid thing.

Most of the Nids revert to feral and animalistic. But that still means there's a trillion trillion trillion feral animals seeking food. They're just no longer *organized* properly.

And nothing says some of the "Hive-Cerebrate" fleets couldn't develop aspirations to Hive Mind status...

(It's a little like Newcrons where you can have personalities and shit, maybe. You might have a powerful Synapse Creature start developing its own idiosyncrasies and intelligence, absent the Hive Mind's smothering control. Maybe this is preposterous, but I thought it might be interesting.)

>>54768933
>>54768874
So I started playing Warhammer back in '03, my first army was Khorne Bezerkers.

A few months later I switched to Tyranids and thus began my life long obsession with evolution, genetics, and Alien. But before that I grew up reading my dad's white dwarf and rogue trader books, so I saw the evolution of Nids in the lore.

To this day, Nids are my shit. I'm pretty keen on a lot of Imperium lore just because the setting imposes that upon you, but as far as Nids go, I eat, breath, and shit nid lore.
And Tyranids are not the Zerg.

>>54769111
And yet, analogies are how human beings sometimes attempt to express complex ideas.

>>54769149
It's not just the analogy. The Hivemind, and Tyranids, just don't work in some of the ways described

I'm at the gym, so I don't have time to go into great detail right now, but if you'd hopped into the Discord I could chat it out easier

>>54769442
I might, were it not for the fact that our threads seem to think their natural home is Page 9 lately. :P

>>54769587
Well everyone's fuckin' in there, and I'm pretty much mobile exclusive throughout the day and I have never, NEVER, let the thread die

You're not the lone sentinel safeguarding the thread, and the speed of the threads is perfect for keeping everyone updated and on track, while leaving the door open for

>Clickitty clack, get in the fucking discord

>>54770373
>>54769587
>B-But if I get in the Discord the thread will die

Saved from page 10, btw

I think the Death's Heads, the Liberators and the Forge Lords should have a massive war around M40 that serves as our Armageddon.

>>54748931
On the subject of Nikea, I think I have an idea for what Valorn says at the council. He gets up later on and lambastes some of brothers for forgetting that people other than Kincaid's guards died when the Phantoms' librarius blew up (e.g. The librarians who blew up) and notes that the event could have been avoided had the Liberian's had access to better training. He also notes that many of humanity's enemies use psykers (orks and Eldar for example) and that well trained psykers of their own could be very useful in countering such entities. Basically a "better to have and not need than need and not have" situation. He's more than willing to compromise on elements of the librarius, but he's very much in favour of their continued existence.

>>54772468
While initially I want to jump and say they weren't just guards, but individuals that he truly loved.

However it might be interesting to have it so that no one truly understands the blow he was dealt

>>54772396
True, you did manage to save it. But the point is that the thread keeps falling to page 10, not that it gets saved from the brink every time.

And your sarcasm is really swaying my mind on the Discord thing.