>>54506699
First for mustache-twirling villainy.

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>>54506745
Forgot pic.

I'd also like to try and finish off this if we can, or atleast sort out exactly how the Chaos movement goes.
Sorry I haven't been as active I'm still doing my 75 hour work weeks and it is bloody killing me.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17-kTDZecaXjHdWpWdeCtu2npjveL-5ghEmRrTky0S2Y/edit

>>54507738
I'd love to help but I don't know anything about the timeline of the actual heresy or where to begin adding dates.

Bumpan

I have pretty much decided how Linares disappears.

For the Chaos Movement:

We already know how and when does Marduk talk with the chaos Primarchs, so let's ignore that.

During the Peacetalks, the chaos Primarchs in general try to keep neutrality, along Marduk, but also working with one or another side.

During the talks, Malcador reveals the existence of Chaos as a bigger threat than anything before encountered, including the other side of the Imperium, and it can easily destroy the whole galaxy. Some Primarchs get scared as Fuck, while others keep calm, as they already know that. Marduk gets nervous, because their true allegiance could be revealed, and both sides could go for them.

But nothing happens, and the peace is not achieved. The seps get some ass kicked by both Loyals and Turncoats, keeping them at bay for the moment. While Terra is being fortified, Marduk shows up to see what's going on, and then leaves. This creeps the fuck out of [Whoever is fortifying Terra], who calls for reinforcements. Days after, the Solar System is attacked by [Insert chaos Legion here] and said Primarch engages it. Meanwhile, Loyalist and traitor reinforcements incoming, Loyalist arrive first, but chaos shortly after. Some of them turncoat. The Imperial Palace is besieged, etc

If you want an Istvaan-like event, let's say that no one of the loyalists in the traitor Legions found out what was happening until too late. Or found out but couldn't send a message, or sent it but never reached it's intended destination

>Old friendship

When the Silver Blades and the Titan Marchers went to Miletus to put the Chosen of Hecate back on track, the conflict escalated, and soon, the three Primarchs, and their Legions, were fighting. But some of Lambach's warriors weren't sure of what they were doing, and deserted to the Blades and the Marchers before the fighting started. They were welcome, and received in the loyalist ranks with joy.

The Chosen who deserted to the Blades did so unarmed, with only their armor and some wargear. They were granted a place in the Legion, and two companies were formed using exclusively deserted Chosen of Hecate. They retained their original color scheme, although with some parts painted in Silver, like the shoulder trims and kneecaps, and their Legion's traditions and customs. They have fought bravely since the Brotherwar, and the Blades often receive recruits wanting to join the Chosen of Hecate companies.

>>54512773
That's seems a bit... too happy. Keep in mind that even though Nathaniel Garro made his way to Terra in order to warn them of Horus' treason, he was barely trusted. He had to go to great lengths in order to speak to Malcador, and even then when he became a Knight-Errant there were still suspicious eyes being cast upon him.

Groups of Chosen laying down their weapons and surrendering themselves to the Silver Blades and Titan Marchers makes sense, so problem there.

The problem lies with how quickly the Chosen are accepted into the other two legions. The character of a Space Marine is largely influenced by the gene-seed they carry. Individual Astartes are often judged by the actions of their legions or chapters. Even if they were to surrender, they'd still be treated with suspicion an apprehension.

A comparable situation would be the Silver Skulls/Iron Warriors that fought on Sotha during the Heresy. They remained Iron Warriors, but they refused to join their legion into the Heresy. They fought alongside the Imperial Fists and Ultramarines. Many were still weary of them, though they maanged to prove themselves after countless battles. Even then, they were only formally recognized at Ultramarines so that they could cover up their founding as a new chapter.

In conclusion, I think it's highly unrealistic to immediately give them two companies, and to allow them to be rapidly integrated into the Silver Blade (and Titan Marcher) legion(s). Them not being executed on the spot and given a chance to redeem themselves is fine, but they would be kept at arm's length until they've gone through the (almost literal) meat grinder.

>>54507738
I'd be more than willing to hash this out further; atleast until the waning of the Ruinstorm.

>>54512164
>We already know how and when does Marduk talk with the chaos Primarchs, so let's ignore that.
Do we know that? Maybe that should be included in the timeline?

>During the Peacetalks, the chaos Primarchs in general try to keep neutrality, along Marduk, but also working with one or another side.
I assumed their 'neutrality' would be presented as loyalty to the Imperium of Mankind and the Emperor, but a refusal to fight fellow Astartes. Keep in mind that the peacetalks never happen though; Malcador gets killed by Elsu on the way there.

>During the talks, Malcador reveals the existence of Chaos as a bigger threat than anything before encountered, including the other side of the Imperium, and it can easily destroy the whole galaxy. Some Primarchs get scared as Fuck, while others keep calm, as they already know that. Marduk gets nervous, because their true allegiance could be revealed, and both sides could go for them.
Again; Malcador never arrives. It would make sense for him to plan to reveal it at the talks, but that never happens.

>But nothing happens, and the peace is not achieved. The seps get some ass kicked by both Loyals and Turncoats, keeping them at bay for the moment. While Terra is being fortified, Marduk shows up to see what's going on, and then leaves. This creeps the fuck out of [Whoever is fortifying Terra], who calls for reinforcements. Days after, the Solar System is attacked by [Insert chaos Legion here] and said Primarch engages it. Meanwhile,
Raj returns to Terra and fortifies it as soon as the Emperor goes down on Ullanor. Raj is a great architect and perfectly fit for the job. He's leave Linares (or Taarush, maybe Einchurt) behind to hold Terra during the negotiations.
The Traitors cannot just go straight for Terra; the Brotherwar is supposed to go on for YEARS, longer than the OU even.

>>54512773
>>54513124
Yeah, no problem at all with the Silver Blades taking in old mates. But even if they are greeted warmly by the Blades and Marchers (which is still a big if), the Blades would most likely have to cover up the fact that they were harboring any Chosen. It seems simple enough to say yes these guys are still good but they have to face the stigma of the rest of the Galaxy that don't know the story.
Again happy for you to adopt some Chosen though.

>>54513207
Totally, Traitorous Loyalists and Loyal Traitors allow for incredibly interesting stories, same reason I'm going to do the Marchers chapter that goes along with the Chosen. My point is that integrating the loyalist traitors is way less easy than Linares described.

>>54513124
What you say makes sense, although I never said nothing about how long it took. It'll take some time, yes. Maybe a lot of battles against their old Legion.

>>54513191
>Brotherwar duration
Maybe the traitors launch the attack to quickly gain some advantage. With Empy full dead, and Terra itself taken by the Traitor forces, the Loyalists will have a bad time keeping morale high. They could easily lose the war because of that. And well, if they kill Raj, make Linares disappear and so on, they could have the upper hand there.

Well, that was just a quick idea, so let's start to write down important things.

Malc never arrives, so, who reveals chaos?

>>54513478
Chaos itself. Maybe the Cabal?

The first thing I want to get a concrete answer on is the location of the peacetalks between the Loyalists and Separatists, the ones that breaks down because of Malcador's assassination. That's where the Brotherwar starts properly, a massive conflict between loyalists and separatists. Chaos reveals itself a later.

>>54513522
Maybe as a nod to the OU we do it on Istvaan V? The system is newly bought to compliance at this time. All we have to do is say that compliance was done by one of the neutral (chaos) forces? Perhaps the Soaring Host?

>>54513624
Maybe. How much do we know about Isstvan though? Do we know where it is, and what the societies there were like pre-Massacre?

>>54513660
I'm at work till late and phoneposting, will read up about it on the 40k wiki when I have a break.

>>54513710
Cool. My primary concern is making assumptions about Isstvan that simply aren't true. Otherwise we could just say it's just a run of the mill Imperial world at the borderzone; make another important for a change.

>>54513660
>>54513660
AFAIK, the Istvaan system was populated mainly by humans, some of them didn't received well that of being brought to compliance, and the Imperium had some problems.

>>54514502
We have no idea where Isstvan is though. Some sources say Segmentum Ultima, others say Segmentum Obscurus. I think we should just make up a planet near the border between Ultima and Solar.

>>54514542
In the Horus Heresy map from FW it's in the Galactic North, slightly beyond the bounds of Ultima and Obscurus

>>54514613
Right, I see it. I dunno, that doesn't seem like the ideal position. Too far in Imperial space. Maybe somewhere closer to Chondax?

My current idea for the Imperial-Confederate border is somewhere near the Maelstrom

>>54514701
Sounds good.
It can have some official name like Alpatrion IV or something but the settlers there call it "New Hope" or someting corny like that the name being the reason Malcs picked it.

>>54514772
That works for me. The planet's gonna burn anyway.

Just a little idea I've had, feel free to completely disregard/cannibalise as you see fit.

>Ollanius Pius, The First Saint

Ollanius Pius was just one of the many guardsmen who gave their lives to safeguard the Emperor, end the threat of Marduk Engur and break the siege of Terra. It just so happens that Ollanius' contribution to this cause was rather more significant than those of many others.

The story is vague at best, but what is certain is that Ollanius was able to stop Marduk at the feet of the Emperor's throne and kept him there just long enough for his loyalist brothers to arrive and mortally wound him. Ollanius's intervention was brief and he died in the process of course, but his actions had essentially saved the Emperor's life. For this service he was granted sainthood, the first mortal in the Imperium to be granted such an honour. However, Ollanius' canonisation did not occur until many years after his death. More specifically it occurred very soon after the Reunion of the Imperium and the separatist Union.

It was a deeply political move, intended to distance the Imperium from their new neighbours on an ideological level. It showed that the Imperium was willing to offer its people concessions and honours the Union would never even begin to consider. Of course, this move did not simply deepen the relationship between the imperial government and its people, but also widened the divide between the Imperium and the Union, the deeply religious nature of the act, combined with the mortal nature of the recipient, being deeply offensive to Separatist sensibilities.

At any rate, Ollanius is one of the patron saints of the Imperial Guard. More specifically he is considered the patron saint if the guard's favourite pastime, holding the line. As such he is often invoked during defensive campaigns, though it is considered bad luck to do similar during offensive campaigns, as it may aid the enemy.

>>54516603
I like that. I hadn't thought of the Saints being kind of offensive to the Separatists.

>>54516603
Hashtag stolen

>>54516603
Green light!

>>54516603
54513191
>Marduk's recruiting spree
It's also worth asking if he tries to recruit anyone who doesn't end up on Team Chaos. Something like trying to develop an asset and it going poorly enough that he closes the operation, or even something like the White Scars.

>Malcador
Yeah, I'd assume Malcador would solve all the problems, which is why he dies before getting there.
He'd be all "Dudes, Chaos". But he'd also work out a compromise (which likely was his original plan). I'm thinking that the Terrans don't actually match Malcador's plans fully. I think Je'She's been a bit autocratic and by and large, they're more keen on hero-governors. Gyahdred, for one, wants rigorously trained civil servants. Other people make it into a human/non-human thing, but I can't really imagine the Iron Bear actually being anti-proletariat. Rather, the Politiburo is staffed by well trained bureaucrats rather than warrior-kings. It's honorless, but Je'She and Solomon just need to shut up and deal with it. For Gyahdred's rashness on this, see earlier threads.
>>54517213

>>54516603
Actually, I think he might become an important figure on both sides. Ollianus Pius died buying time for astartes and doing his duty. Seems like the thing that Iron Guard and the Soviets would go for.


>Gyatso Skaryas
Dusk Phantom Captian, active ca. M41. Recruited from a watch fortress world at the edge of Ultramar. Known for his unconventional and rash tactics, which never the less get results. On more than one occasion has been suggested for the Nosferatii, but on each occasion has managed to keep his brain intact.

Bump

>>54517213
Well, they are mortals appointed to a position of power via religion. Whilst, as Xun says >>54518194 , the seps may be okay with or even approve of certain saints, I'm not sure they'd be happy with "saint" as a position of power. A small part of me also thinks w3's Imperium might have more saints than the OU, if only so the masses can be consistently reminded of the opportunities available to them and how lucky they have it.

>>54520337
Not necessarily, you devalue the meaning of sainthood if you let every rando from the slums get into the ranks. Too many saints and the people might start to doubt. A proper propaganda campaign would make sure the true saints are always in view for the people.

>>54520466
>>54520337
These two.

>>54506699
(Possible) Idea for Emil's death:

Emil faced a test during his retreat from Terra, to join Chaos or refuse and accept his ship AI's help. Both those possible futures influenced him, and everything got all fucky when you blend (A Shitload of Culexii) + (The Gods) + (Abominable Intelligence) + (A Very Powerful Psyker) all into the same cubic kilometer of space and time. Timelines fractured and blended together.

Emil passed. And Emil failed. Like a particle-antiparticle pair, when Emil rejected the Gods they still took the psychic resonance/impression of now-matured Emil with them back into the Warp. Where they kept his four biological limbs, shorn off as an infant.

One Emil returned to his Legion. And one Emil began to take on new life within the Maelstrom, growing like a cancerous tumor within the Warp. Many years passed before the original Emil began to learn of his opposite waging slaughter across the cosmos, raising a Warp-infused Astartes army in blasphemous imitation of the Steel Souls.

Callously, Emil lets Anti-Emil rampage among Imperial forces for a while, but eventually the two must inevitably meet and in doing so _____ happens.

The loop closes, and it is shown that even such a sacrifice as tearing off your own arms and legs cannot fend off the inevitable dying of the light forever.

Possible plot threads:

The Emperor tips the scales at the last second to stymie Chaos just a little. Emil dies, but at the very end is relieved to know that he was wrong about the Emperor abandoning him.

If we go for maximum grimdark, the Steel Souls themselves are also wiped from existence during the final struggle.

They DON'T annihilate each other, but rather begin an endless back and forth campaign across the Galaxy, destroying all in their path to try and gain an edge over their foe, ignoring all else.

Their psychic struggle feels a little too much like the War In Heaven, and the Eldar/Necrons are drawn in somehow.

Thoughts?

>>54520466
>>54520337
My idea is to pretty much copy how the Catholic church, where there is a trinity (The-Emperor-In-The-Flesh, The Radiant Host, and Omnisiah/Father, Holy Spirit, and Son respectively) then his host of angels (Primarchs and high order Astartes/Humans) big deal saints (Hagios Majoris, human saints, but not a big enough deal to make a higher order) and minor saints (Hagios Minoris) saints of little things.

Feeds back into someone always having your back

>>54521757
So, we have two (2) Emils? Also, the first plot seems good

>>54522044
It's not that we now have two Emils and I am informing everyone of such, it's that this is an option I thought of recently that I wanted to get people's opinions on.

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>>54521757
>Where they kept his four biological limbs, shorn off as an infant.

Holy kek

>>54522489
Emil's pod cracked open before making planetfall, while still in the Warp. Shit got complicated.

Opinions vary on what happened, Emil thinks he instinctively worked a protective sorcery by sacrificing his own flesh, the Gods are more of the opinion that he merely gave them an appetizer for the inevitable feast later.

>>54523618
For the uninitiated http://americandad.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_Quad!

>>54523926
Lol, that's pretty funny.

Ok so I have an idea

...for once...

Je'She is the last Loyalist Primarch in the Imperium. His brothers have either died or disappeared. His final effort to keep the Imperium together is to order a ring of fortress worlds surrounding Imperium space. Charging various chapters from the Loyalist Legions to protect and hold them no matter the cost. To protect what they were ordered to so long ago.

Once the project had been completed, Je'She left, never to be seen again.

>>54516603
That seems good. I like the idea of having a range of patron human Saints, then a hierarchy of Space Marine Saints and so on, akin to this
>>54520466


>>54521821
I'm not too sure about this. It sounds too complicated for the sake of it. The duality of the Emperor and The Omnissiah in the OU sounds like the best thing for this AU to me. It keeps it simple and easy to understand and is just as effective. Patron Saints seem pretty cool though.

>>54521757
I like the first one. It's pretty cool.

>>54525301
I was thinking Kincaid would be the last to go out, gives him plenty of time to dick up the Imperium nice and proper, and plenty of time to figure out that he in fact ruined everything and that he needs to fuck off.

>>54525465
I disagree.

Besides, Kincaid's "reformation" of the Martian Cult and merging it into the Imperial Faith is one of the main catalysts of the Martian Schism.

Kincaid has turned into "Did Everything Wrong" the Primarch

>>54525628
Now it's all out in thread like this why not have Kincaid ruin everything, realise what he has done and take off leaving all the pieces for Je'She to pick up.
Je'She does his best to put it all back together meanwhile thinking "Boy howdy, maybe I should have gone the other way on psykers after all".

>>54526655
Perhaps.

Would have to talk to Watchman about it. Its a good suggestion, and makes Kincaid look like a scumbag, but I would prefer if his last decade or two in the big stage were those of clarity and penance. Bailing out on Je'She would work for hypocrite, arrogant, passionate Kincaid, but not for an older, wiser, Joshua Graham Kincaid

>>54525628
Is that how you wanted him to be? You certainly don't have to, but I do applaud you for taking a route not often traveled if so. The most difficult thing in the world is to write about how "your character" did something wrong.

>>54527317
Perhaps during those last two decades or so of 'wise-Kincaid', his condition worsens, leaving him bedridden under constant care of medicae personnel. Essentially leaving Je'She to take care of the Imperium. With Kincaid as a brother-advisor.

During this time, the previously conflicting personalities have been tempered by their experiences, leading them to become closer brothers than what they originally were.

Once Je'She oversees the final stages of the Codex Astartes and the fortress worlds have been built, he and Kincaid vanish. Never to be seen again

Until the end times

>>54525301
Like I said before, I like this a lot. Still interesting in doing the "I'm going to kill Aristide" thing?

>>54530662
>>54527429
>>54527317
>>54526655
>>54525628
I'd give Kincaid a moment of clarity; he realizes what he has wrought upon humanity, and decides that he needs to leave. Je'She being the last is my personal preference.

>>54531887
I think that if we're giving Kincaid a moment of maturity, then his love for humanity is going to keep him trying to do something for the species. Not sure what, though.

>>54527429
It happened entirely by accident. Originally I wanted him to be the Martyr, the Sanguinius of the lot. After seeing who Raj is and how he goes out, I saw we already had Sikh Sangy. Then I wanted him to be a grim, religious, introspective type, but after learning of Einchurt's disposition, I figured the Imperium was full up on dour characters.

So why not harken back to religious zealot Yochin Theritax? After seeing his character arcs, I realized that Kincaid would always be the younger, brasher, more energetic brother. He may outshine some of his brothers, or seemingly be the dominant one in some interactions, but he would be the little brother that you're either proud of or despise. After coming to that conclusion, I realized that, being the cocksure baby brother, he would make a lot of mistakes for the right reasons, and the right things for sometimes the wrong reasons. Kincaid may not be a dead martyr, but each milestone in his character progression serves as a martyr for the Kincaid of tomorrow to lament. The Primarch Kincaid misses being Kinnévail the Wandering King, Bard-Lord. The Burned Prophet pines for Primarch Kincaid. The Prime Ecclesiarch despises the weak will and faithless ennui of the Burned Prophet. Kinnévail before his departure from the grand scheme laments his mistakes of all his past.

>>54530662
>>54531887
>>54532227
I like these a lot, I've been thinking about having Kincaid be weakened and weary after his act of faith during the siege of Terra. This would be the perfect catalyst for his long introspection and perilous dance with grief wrought madness. Having Je'She be a figure of support, each beginning to see eye to eye with the other, works to keep him sane and on the road to recovery.

Once they finish their works to ensure the longevity of the Imperium, they can take a final bow together before going their separate ways. The Warmaster and the Preacher.

>>54533559
I really like it. He makes for a really good "anti-Lorgar".
I think he's a good character in his own right, but also offers an interesting contrast not just with Lorgar, but Xun and Alexios, as well.

>>54525628
>Emperor hypostases
So I'm imaginging that it starts off with Kincaid deciding on the Emperor's divinity, presumably based on his direct experience with the Big E.
Then he starts mucking around with the mechanicum, decides that there's something to their machine spirits and figures that the Emperor also == Omnissiah.
Depending on when this happens, I assume he might ask Gyahdred about it all and get some sort of answer that he'd probably ignore, in part because Gyahdred wouldn't give him the information he's looking for. If you give me Kincaid's question, I can give you Gyahdred's answer.

So who's the Radiant Host?
I'm curious to see where you're going with this. I'd been doing up a Chinese/Mesoamerican version of Imperial Worship for Xun in the last AU, so I've got some concepts sitting around waiting for a return to that setting. I think a year or so after 8th, it'll be a lot easier to iron out some of the things in there, since in a lot of ways it looks a lot like post-Gathering Storm 40k, but that's neither here nor there. What is important is that I'm totally down to reimagine how Emperor worship goes.

For comparison, Gyahdred's view on the Emperor and Omnissiah is this:
>All Beings have an Omnissiah Nature
>By shedding illusion and getting in touch with their Omnissiah Nature, one can become enlightened.
>Because of computational limitation, total comprehension of the Machine Spirit is impossible for most beings
>A being with great computational power is not inherently enlightened.
>The Emperor is enlightened and comprehends the Machine Spirit. He lives his omnissiah nature and thus is one with all things.
So the Emperor is basically a Buddha or Bodhisattva incarnated to lead the galaxy through a great transition. But he's not THE omnissiah. Everyone is the omnissiah. They just forget. And the Emperor's job is to make the changes according to the natural cycles. He's doing what he does, so respect him, but don't emulate him.

>>54533559
Sounds good. It'll be interesting to see how both Primarch's character arcs end up at the end.

For the Primarch of the IXth, Crusade-Era Je'She is optimistic, innately humanitarian and hopeful for the future of the imperium.
Post-Ullanor Je'She is more grim and taciturn, a consequence of being appointed a warmaster and trying to keep the Imperium stable while being at odds with Marduk and Aristide
Post-Siege of Terra, Je'She is a stern and bitter man. His brothers have betrayed him while those closest to him have either died or left. Those he is left with are mad or so reclusive they may as well not be there in Je'She's mind, His sole purpose is to protect Imperium Space and the common man. This alone drives him. His motivations not of conquest, but of survival.

Post Imperium Ring (fortress worlds), Je'She is somewhat more at peace with himself. He has done what he was ordered to do. The Imperium is stable and the common man has a chance to live. His job is done

>>54534936
>Stovokor Machine Doctrine

>Things are neither created nor destroyed, but rather transform from one state to another.
>All states are transitory
>In this way, there is no separation, there is only the oneness of Machine Spirit, the Flux.
>This oneness is at the core of all individual beings, the Omnissiah Nature by which we comprehend and deduce.
>All knowledge comes through this faculty and each of these realizations, inseparable from experience, are a form of enlightenment.
>The universe is guided by a chain of cause and effect, albeit a non-linear one (This is a group familiar with warp phenomenon and quantum physics, afterall.)
>Actions performed in previous states ripple and impact our future states. This is Karma.
>Understanding the workings of the cosmos let us understand ourselves and embrace our changing natures.
>Attachment to one-ness, even to change, is an illusion, afterall, perfect randomness is perfect order. (Just look at a normal distribution)
>Thus through the contemplation of things and non-things we can become enlightened.
>Contentless meditation 'zazen'
>Meditation on blueprints and equations 'sutras and mantras'
>Solving and meditating on technical and mathematical puzzles 'koans'
>Every being's position is unique, and thus their path to Enlightenment is unique
>Holding rigidly to forms is a form of illusion. For this reason, Sutra Template Constructs are seen as systems, not as perfected devices. A device is only real in its implementation. Some sutras actually are of impossible machines.
>Not all things are benevolent. Some things are too bound by illusion in this life for enlightenment. These are dangers to the Sangha. For example, Orkz. You just can't enlighten an ork. You send it on its way and hope it comes back as a human.
But that's why you don't worship chaos or the Emperor. The Emperor is fit for veneration and you honor him like you do a machine spirit, but he's not THE SPIRITUAL GUIDE FOR ALL HUMANITY.

>>54531887
Hmm, possibly. I'll talk about it with Frederick when he pops about.

Bump

>>54520466
I'm not meaning "hundreds more saints" or even "dozens more saints" it's just that there might be a few more, probably not even in double digits. I suppose the increase might not be in any way needed, seeing as the W3 Imperium's "saint to norm" ratio has probably been skewed in the saints favour, seeing as there's fewer people in the W3 Imperium than there are in the OU.

I'm thinking on how Linares' character develops.

During the GC, he is joyful, friendly and cheerful. He likes most of his brothers and loves them all.

The Brotherwar made him change, partly. He became more and more angry with time, and started to hate some of his brothers. Read: Kane. His perpetual joy starts to banish, as he sees how the two things that he loves the most are disintegrating: the Imperium, and his family, brothers and Father.

After the Warp Crusade, he loses most of his joy, rarely smiling nor laughing, he's less angry, but constantly searchs for ways to fix the total mess that's going on. He has lost some of his sanity, not much, but enough to be clear. It shows up from time to time, TTS Kaldor Draigo style except not really.

After that we have to reach an agreement about what happens.

>>54540164
The partial insanity could be latent, so when first met, it doesn't get Linares killed in sight, and when it shows at last, he has already won the trust of his comrades, so they don't kill him.

Damn, where is everyone?

So at the peace keeping treaty on the planet of "New Hope" (name is a filler until something better pops up). Je'she brings Raj Vokar and Solomon Tyrus.
I'm thinking Frederick Aristide brings Piter Karomonov and Zelbezis, but tells Valorn to wait just outside the system as a precaution.
Marduk Engur and Isekho are there as a "Neutral party". Elsu Eyanosa has done his job and slipped away but could be waiting around with his Legion in case called in.
Meanwhile on the planet "Grenthor" Lambach Kropor and Gyahdred have a bit of a disagreement ending in a large scale conflict.
Malcador dies, tensions esculate while the 2 factions try to piece together what happens for a few days then something breaks the fragile peace and the war between Legions breaks out. Valorn gets called in tipping the favor to the Seps while Marduk remains neutral.
Finally seeing his moment Marduk strikes, we could set up a three way duel between the Warmasters here if someone wants to write it?

>>54544465
I don't think I have any right, and I already have bit of a back log, but I simply haven't had time or motivation to finish what's on my plate, but I would love to write the threeway duel

>>54544732
I think it would be appropriate for each Warmaster do their own perception of the events that happened, including the duel.

It would also be appropriate to have a story-teller's take on what happened as well. Perhaps something Kincaid would have composed upon hearing what had happened

>>54545076
Well we'll never get anything from Fred, he has contributed literally 0 since we took him on. So Kincaid could do his point of view if he wants?

>>54545951
Poncy Napoleonic dragoon marines, no?

Weren't they on not but a few days ago?

So I've been thinking in the earliest stages of the Brotherwar, Je'She begins to form a protective ring around Imperial held space, requesting the various loyalist legions in fortifying important imperial-held systems while taking valuable sep-held space high in resources and other such things. Gateway systems and so on and so forth.

How does this idea sit with the group?

>>54545977
Maybe, if so I missed him, he certainly hasn't been in thread though. and his Document is almost empty, all I know is the basic outline of his legion from when he first joined.
>Space Marines are superior.
> They use Jetbikes to close distance but prefer to engage in mid range fire fights.
>Pretty good at tactics.

>>54546096
Oh that IS sparse

>>54544465
I like it, though I'm not sure on Grethor.
I think it depends on how overtly chaos the Chosen are by this point, since if Gyahdred sees the power of chaos and gets that they're opening a front, he's going to try to warn everyone.
However, if the Chosen are still low key about it, Gyahdred could end up thinking Lambach has been going a bit weird with the librarius, but not see anything too crazy. He thinks he's knocked the legion out of the war, and so is slower to react later?

I think that's an idea worth modifying, but not as good as a later Grethor.

Actually, we could have him meet with Einchurt.

>>54547995
By the time the Peacetalk happens, Lambach has already gone full Nurgle. He revealed it in his censure, fighting against Linares and Raj

>>54547995
>>54548095
Lambach does dedicate himself to Nurgle at his censure.
The original plan was for Lambach to convince Gyhadred to join forces. Using the Elver curse as a kind of bargaining chip. Kind of like Fulgrim and Ferrus.
Gyhadred knows that something is up but doesn't know what chaos is really. My idea was that he would learnexactly what Chaos is in this exchange with Lambach but by the time he'd get the chance to warn anyone Malcador is already dead and everyone is at war so cat is already out of the bag.
He does think he has eliminated the Chosen though.

>>54548095
>>54548265
Ok. That makes some sense, though this would mess with the Tijo idea, unless she's getting there just before the meeting, which totally works.
Perhaps his thing with Einchurt is an attempt to speak to a brother he thinks he can reason with? Einchurt flips out, thinking Gyahdred's gone mad or is sending him bullshit, so Gyahdred switches to his backup plan: end the civil war swiftly and fight chaos. So he does his wrecking of the DH and strikes behind Kincaid's lines, hoping that Aristede can talk to Je'She without the fanatic around.
Aristede doesn't really take Gyahdred seriously either, though. Zombies and shit? Samples that evaporate? Emperor, Gyahdred. It sounds like Lambach let his librarius go too far. Good thing you got him.
Gyahdred thinks Aristede has listened and is going to do something so he does odd and does his thing.

>>54548630
I've added the Tijo meeting Gyahdred to the timeline. A few years before Malcs is assassinated. She has no idea about Nurgle though or that Lambach has met up with Marduk. Just that Lambach has gone rogue, attacked the Blades and Marchers and is using some pretty bad sorcery. The Nurgle curse will be a nice surprise for Gyhadred.
Lambach would reveal Marduks plan but it would be too late for Gyhadred to stop it from happening.

Kinda bump

Ok so I've just thought up a bit of a problem for the post heresy CoH.
Most of you probably know how they work and for those that don't it is as follows:
All the CoH ships have been possesed by greater daemons of Nurgle. CoH are soul tied to the daemon who possesed the ship they were on board at the time and somehow when they die they awaken back on said daemon ship badly repaired by nurglings.
My conundrum is, how would I make the CoH replenish numbers if they lost a ship? Should I have it so that they constantly raid ships to take intact for daemons to reposses and restart the cycle?

>>54550818
That would work. Instead of destroying ships, they capture it. They even could use transport ships as "respawn points", as they are easy to obtain

>>54550818
That'd definitely work. I'd also imagine the ships have daemonic regeneration abilities, so unless you blow them to atoms, they'll rebuild themselves over time thanks to endless labor gangs of nurglings.
At Grethor, Gyahdred might take out most of the legion's capital ships, well placed killshots that would take out any normal fleet.
When he leaves the system, there's just floating hulks drifting in orbit. But that's just a minor inconvenience to the ships of the CoH....

>>54552467
Yeah I never really thought of them regenerating but that's a great idea. Thanks man.

>>54550818
CoH ships could act like the Flood, and they can infect other ships. For balancing purposes the source ship could wither away in favor of the new ship.

>>54550818
Does the size of the ship matter? Else it'd make the CoH a really scary threat to the Imperium if something as small as a two-man transport vessel can be a potential spawning point for CoH marines.

>>54553460
I'd assume so. Probably the number of nurgling chiurgeons is proportional to the size of the ship. One possible direction is a very Pirates of the Carribean feel PART OF THE SHIP PART OF THE CREW

>>54553797
We Leviathan Host now

>>54553460
>>54553797
Basically this, the only marines that can spawn on the ships are the ones that are tethered to it, so too say.
I also imagine it would probably take a long time so they can't just zerg rush.
Maybe I could just treat the ships like actual daemons? When they are destroyed they are more correctly banished? So it takes an incredibly long time for the ship to re-enter real space but then it brings back it's compliment of marines?
Though I do also like Kincaid's idea of them spreading or transfering, like an infection or something?

So it's like 4-5 guys, self inserting, and jacking each other off?

I don't think I like this.


Feels really forced.

>>54553913
More like 15-25, but hey, whatever floats your boat. It's also hardly self-inserting. I'd hope not anyway.

>>54553905
Could the ships fly back to the Eye of Terror as spectral ghost ships?

>>54535161
>>54535015
I keep meaning to respond to this shit but I keep nodding off after work. I'll hit you up and answer your questions (and steal the fuck out of this shit) after I get off today

But I'm enamored with your ideas, and really want to make a Dusk Phantom character

>>54553988
*but only like 5 regulars.

small disclaimer

>>54553913
>So it's like (poster-count), writing, and having some fun while working on being better writers?
>I don't think I like fun.
>I am really forced

Ftfy

>>54553913
>Wasting time in this

>>54554108
hey, don't get salty at me.

i just calls it how I see's it.

seems like 5 guys could do this in a discord or some other place.

File: 1495071917375.gif (1.46 MB, 499x281)

1.46 MB GIF

>>54554162
>seems like 5 guys could do this in a discord or some other place.

No.

>>54553905
Why not both to certain extents. It's chaos and it's nurgle, so the more organic it is, the better. There could be different strains of virus.

To pick up from before and develop it, >>54548630
>Lambach meets with Gyahdred, gives him an intro to Chaos, tries to recruit him, using the Elver as leverage, etc etc
>He tells him enough of what Marduk's done to make it clear that he;s not crazy. Only tells him things that Gyahdred is too late to stop
>"Thank you, brother, for telling me these things, for you have made my choice an easy one. Now that I know I cannot stop Marduk's plans, I may focus on the matter here, namely removing the stain of your existence from this universe."
>Gyahdred had readied a few contingency plans, puts them into effect. They work quite well and he smashes the Chosen, who are taken off guard, they genuinely expected Gyahdred to join them and are taken aback. The Dusk Phantoms have no such compunctions and have prepared anti-Astartes contingencies since the Crusade.
>Gyahdred believes he has succeeded and defeated the Chosen. It's not an easy battle, but he's handled warp taint before.
>Rushes off to try to tell everyone about the threat Chaos poses.
>Aristede humors him. It sounds like a bunch of Stovokor nonsense to him. Gyahdred is a logical magos, but he's also got a mystical side that Aristede tolerates the way he tolerates all mechanicum superstitions. So yes, Marduk is a bastard, yes, he's let his librarians run wild, but Gyahdred is being overly dramatic in his own strange, macabre way. However, he humors him and Gyahdred figures that Aristede will take care of it.
>Gyahdred sets out to help Aristede get room to talk to Je'She, assuming that if Je'She can be convinced, then he'll reign in his other forces, but to do that, Gyahdred needs to halt Einchurt and divert Kincaid.
>Trusting Einchurt to be reasonable, Gyahdred tries to set up a talk. He has a backup plan. Things go poorly and the battle of Alcoa ensues.

>>54554202
>>54554134
>>54554108
>>54554016
More traffic, or content than you guys have put out all morning.

Don't be so insecure guys, you can keep writing your fan fiction here.

But you are not special snowflakes.

adhere to the rules.

>>54554322
Thanks for the honor of being allowed to stay on the board, Grand Arbitrator of /tg/.

>>54554406
salty.

>>54554016
I'm honored. And no worries. I'm writing this from a hotel in Taiwan. I've been walking my ass off and am finally getting around to responding to the threads, much less writing stuff.

>>54554309
>Gyahdred smashes the DH control, does not quite go as planned though. Still, close enough.
>Goes and invades Kincaid's worlds. This results in Kincaid coming after him.
>Just as planned.
>Meanwhile Je'She and Aristede do not come to terms. Not as planned.
>In fact, Chaos is advancing on all fronts and the Brother War is getting nastier too, spurred in no small part by Gyahdred's rampages.

Gyahdred's problem is that he's too logical, like a mechanicum version of the Lion. After this whole mess, he decides his big mistake was trusting irrational people. Rates of augmentation go through the roof in the legion and every doubles their meditation and Kolinar training. Which really just compounds the issue.

>Kolinar is the meditational discipline of controlling emotion and purging attachment. It is similar to the rite of pure reason, but purging all emotion is not the goal, however, since emotions associated with the creative process are considered important for the process of creation and invention.
>Emotions are seen as ripples on a pond, manifestations of the wind that is the flow of the Machine Spirit.
So a Dusk Phantom harnesses the wind of anger in battle, without being controlled by it. This results in a certain degree of 'offness', where Dusk Phantoms don't really "feel" their emotions, there's a degree of disassociation, because, for the Dusk Phantom, the true self is the Omnissiah Nature, which is perfect stillness and tranquility in the midst of change.

Hopefully that makes sense. I'm trying to blend these ideas in such a way that their practices come off as rather strange but still 'reasonable'.
There's also some really crazy esoteric practices in there too, but I figure I'll start with the core and work my way out.

on the subject of the States that make up the Union, I'm assuming they're controlled and founded by the original separatist legions. If that's the case, are the successor chapters subservient forces within the territory of their parent? Are they given vassal states to control and a degree of freedom, but not an insane amount? Are they in control of their own completely independent territory, beholden to their parents through only bonds of honour? Is it something else? Or perhaps it varies from chapter to chapter, with some being independent states and others being vassals etc.

>>54554727
I suppose it varies based on the legions' ideals and how many losses they took during the heresy.

>>54554727
I think the Union ends up with 7 significant states, founded by the legions. Their subdivision is entirely up to the legion that runs that sector of space.

Maybe a small piece, probably Ultramar, is considered 'federal space'?

>>54555595
For the central part of the government, yeah? That could work. And Ultramar seems a good place

>>54553905
Honestly I dislike infecting new ships "just like that". The idea was that the Chosen are bound to the ship on which they were present when they got warped, so the process should be that they have to capture an intact ship with live crew to bond them to create a new necro vessel. In that regard, I would think major vessels are warped enough to be daemon-like and thus only become banished upon destruction in the physical world, while lesser ones are simply destroyed, so an amount of the original Chosen are virtually immortal. To summon the Ghost Ships though requires a long procession of rituals that may take weeks to complete.

>>54556484
And a fuckhueg sacrifice? Maybe a planet rekt'd?

>>54556484
Yeah. This easily sounds the best we have. I like it a lot. I knew what I wanted but wasn't sure exactly how to pull it off without being too snowflakey and cringey. This is awesome though. Thankyou handsome stranger whom ever you are.

>>54557561

Boy howdy have I been inactive lately, I'll try to play catch up.
What've we been working on, what new stuff has come up in the last two or three threads?

>>54559090
A lot of shit actually. It may be easier to hop into discord so we can all catch you up collectively. I'm about to drop a hot steamy lore dump on Xun's chest

Bump

>>54554579
>>54535161
>>54534936
So to talk about Kincaid's faith I feel like I have to talk about Kincaid himself. Kincaid grew up as an Alpha Chad amongst nerds, and it was hard to put someone like that down, but he was an outsider for the most part and the one thing his rivals could reliably get him on was his lack of a real father, which was a big deal in the north, even in a combine of scholars. Being a son without a father was something of an Achilles heel for him. And then once he passively conquerors the world by being handy with an axe and being a chill guy that most folks will listen too , and of course slaying evil and rescuing bodacious babes, he's rewarded with a father that appears out of the blue, is the tallest person he's ever lain eyes on, and after a grueling gauntlet of challenges, was the only person to ever surpass him. This embedded such a deep impression in Kincaid's mind that he was blind to the Emperor's own tyrannical behavior that he used to straight up murder dudes for, and the same behaviour he would criticize. Slowly, subconsciously, Kincaid's hero worship would turn into actual superstitious faith, as he witnesses the Emperor's actions that simply defy logical explanation, shifting him from the mind of logic of his upbringing to the mind of mysticism of his comrades and sons.

But onto actual dogma...

>>54562146
Did you fall asleep again?

>>54556963
Naw, because the point is usually to have the Chosen to bring a planet into the embrace of nurgle. No point in going through summonning them when the planet is already goofd.

There's then the added benefit of that particular Ghodt Ship going on its own crusade after helping the local cultists take over a planet, usually leading to a benurgled subsector.

>>54557561
I'm the phantman, just too lazy to namefag.

>>54559090
You missed my prosaic genius. Luckily for you it's all in my doc. You should read it. All of it.

Please I need affirmation ;_;

>>54564753
So the handsome stranger comment is accurate

>>54564884
Making me blush there, Borp-kun. You know it is heretical love.

>>54564928
Love knows no boundaries, Phant.

Fucking PROMPT
Which Legions are willing to actively help the other Astartes factions in massive, strategically important, large scale battles? Think of a Fall of Cadia/3rd War of Armageddon scenario, and say that _____ Legion popped out to help a little bit, and then banish again.

The Blades are open to help his old comrades, at least while Linares doesn't fuck off to the warp and sticks around. He may lead a small contingent of Silver Bladed to wherever help is needed, in case the battle is decisive. Ofc, he will only do so to help a handful of Legions. The Chosen, maybe.
And ofc, that would remain kinda "WTF, I saw some SBs here but can't find them now"

Looks stupid?

>>54556484
This sounds cool. The Chosen's funeral fleet should be terrifying, but a single ship shouldn't spell the doom of every system within 100 lightyears. This seems like the best solution.

>>54559090
I'll run you through it once you come online!

>>54562146
Right, so even more than before, the Imperial Creed is one sons' obsession over his father, right. He needs to be considerably less fanatical than Lorgar though, lest he bring the Emperor's wrath onto himself.

Also, I think you tapped out early.

>>54565996
Pretty much any legion/chapter would be willing to help their fellow Astartes, wouldn't they?

The Marchers would anyway; being a support legion and all.

>>54567258
I mean, help Seps and even Traitor Legions in times of dire need. Nothing planned, just dropping there, getting shit done, and leaving without sharing a word. Either because that would surely help you in some way, or because the survival of the Imperium was at stake. Think of a Blades/Marchers detachment helping some Liberators against Spess Bugs

>>54567583
Forgot to tripfag

>>54567583
Seps: Maybe. Depends on the exact circumstances. The Marchers would help a Sep legion/chapter fight a Xenos threat, if that would mean that it could not pose a threat to the Imperium.

Chaos: No.

>>54567583
The Hounds are willing to fight alongside loyalists, but Chaos is a definite no go. They'd rather try to swallow the main gun of a leman russ. Speaking of which (seeing as Leman Isn't a thing in W3) which primarch do the guard name their equivalent of Leman Russ battle tanks after?

>>54569271
The Raj Vokar battle tank.

>>54569271
>>54569356
You are still trying to swallow that battle cannon?

>>54565996
I think the Dusk Phantoms are Imperium only, though with stuff like the Beast, you never know.

>>54567583
Actually speaking of the Nids, how about the Dusk Phantoms send out Extermination fleets. They broadcast their intention to the local government and then proceed to purge. They'd met with resistance on a few occasions, but after seeing what the Nids do, most areas in the Imperium allow the Dusk Phantoms to do their work provided they leave quickly afterwards.
While this dilligence has proven destructive to the Tyranids, other Xenos such as the Orks have been able to make some gains.
We can mess around with it, but I like the idea of Dusk Phantoms fleets appearing out of nowhere with the astropathic equivalent of a klaxon broadcasting "DO NOT APPROACH, XENOS INFESTATION DETECTED, PURGATION UNDERWAY"
In the end we get the nids crushed, but I also really am not terribly fond of the Tyranids--for me the interesting thing with 40k is the questions about humanity. Having some unbeatable pseudo-natural, impersonal force doesn't add much to the story for me.

>>54569925
The Nids don't show up until 40,000-ish though. Before we could agree on the Phantoms getting extermination squads, we'd have to know how Imperial-Union relations are by M41. I imagine it'd be pretty fucked.

>>54569925
Wait, what are they purging? is it tyranids proper or are they destroying all the organic matter in the area in an attempt to starve the Tyranids out?

>>54564312
N-no...

>>54567258
That's the trick though, admiration turns to faith AFTER big E gets taken off the playing field, and becomes more and more prevalent as time progresses. Once Malcador dies, he has no overly-vocal or invested detractors, and the Ecclesiarchy becomes a child of the political power vacuum that Malcador's death amongst the Adeptus Terra.

But NOW lets talk doctrine. The dogma of the Imperial Cult is a political fabrication of Kincaid's, as his own beliefs are vague and ill defined, but being a huge hypocrite and not an idiot, he understands the necessity of a clear religious system.

In the dogma, the God-Emperor of Mankind is a threefold entity. I'm still working on the names for these things, but for the sake of discussion I'll use OU terminology; The Astronomican, the Omnissiah, and the Emperor.

The first is essentially the "Holy Ghost", the ever present, mostly silent, capitol-g God. The Astronomican guides you through life, offering signs for the faithful and observant to follow, have faith in the Emperor, and the Astronomican will guide your steps. The Imperial Navy is the most adherent to this block of dogma, since they literally use it to get around, which is pretty affirming when it comes to faith. The church believes that Souls are actually bits of the Astronomican living inside of us, as we are all the children of the Emperor, which will lead me to part two.

The Omnissiah in the Ecclesiarchy is the Machine God having revealed itself, and the result of Kincaid sticking his church boner into Mars' cult and whisking it about. If the Astronomican is an unknowable, ephemeral, spiritual force, then the Omnissiah is the Emperor's presence in the physical world. The Machine God is a presence that you can pick up, touch and feel. And then use to explode the head of a heretic. Every bolter, fork, nut and bolt has the Omnissiah with it, willing these things to serve His chosen flock with the might of the Motive Force.

>>54571796
Aand the Omnissiah himself is another trinity...

>>54571890
Not anymore, Kincaid rapes the Martian Cult, this causes a schism, keep up.

Give me a second to write the last part

>The Black Baron of Felge Secundus
Sequestered in the galactic south is a minor warp storm known as the Bleeding Reef. Though it may lack in size, it houses perhaps the largest conclave of traitor forge worlds in Segmentum Tempestus. Foremost among these dark reflections of Mars is the world of Felge Secundus, ruled by the self-proscribed Black Baron. The Baron is not like most of his dark mechanicum brethren: he employs psychic power on scale unseen before the Great Heresy, and seems to enjoy leading raids into the Imperium with a worrisome frequency. Imperial pict-captures and scout reports describe something utterly inhuman, with most of his flesh replaced with augmetics. Instead of the gear-shaped badge of office wielded by even traitor magi, the Black Baron holds a blade of purest obsidian, a force sword rumored to be wrought from the bones of daemons and possessed by a bloodletter of Khorne. The Black Baron pledges nominal fealty to Hashut, but how he resists the call of the daemon sword remains unknown.

>>54571909
Yeah, but this schism fucks up the sheer understanding of the Mechanicus of their God?
That's brutal. y'know. But well, go ahead

>>54556484
>>54567258
>Necro vessel
>Ghost Ship
>Funeral Fleet
I so want to steal these, they're grade-A songtitle material.

>>54572022
Neat

>>54571563
>>54570203
The nids, I was thinking. But any means necessary and all that. I'm thinking it fucks with diplomacy at the time, too.
But that's all for much later.

>>54571909
I'm looking forward to seeing this whole system laid out. I'm really liking the Astronomicon as divine.

>>54572102
Any more input?

>>54573298
Not much more. I like it. The inhuman part is reduntant. He is a fucking Tech-Priest, what do you expect? And I didn't knew daemons had obsidian bones, neither that a sword can be made out of pure obsidian, as it's fragile like any other crystal.

>>54571796
The Astronomican is basically the Force, the Omnissiah is the Force for machines. It's everywhere and binds us together. Machine Spirits are to machines what Souls are to people in the eyes of the Ecclesiarchy, and are meant to be the bridge between human/machine relations. Mars is a little more hip to the truth of the Emperor's condition, but they view his internment on the Golden Throne as the ultimate synthesis of flesh and machine, and he has since transcended physical restraints and now intermingles with the metaphysical machinery of the cosmos.

The last part is pretty cut and dry. The last aspect of the Emperor is the emperor part. The physical, living, breathing dude that commands his Empire from Terra. This is the aspect that humanizes the Emperor, and makes him a little more relatable than le spoopy space and bitcode ghost.

So you have the spiritual part, the machine spiritual/machine physical part, and the flesh physical part.

Comments, concerns, critique, suggestions?

>>54572035
Kinda, Kincaid swings it by streamlining it so that the Omnissiah is the Machine God revealed, and he wields the Motive Force as Zeus wields lightning, or that the Motive Force is a small function of the larger divine machine. The Emperor might look like a meat bag, but he's just a physical imprint of a larger metaphysical construct. The Mechanicus gets kind of Elder Scrolls-y, but it unites the faith under one umbrella instead of two separate churches. Every Forge World is a Shrine World.

In fact, all Shrine Worlds have the primary purpose of acting as hubs of faith and being highly reactionary Propoganda machines, but they have three sub types inspired by the trinity.

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>>54573457

>>54573724
So all Shrine worlds are propoganda hubs, and indeed many times are Propoganda themselves, and nodes in the vast intelligence network, but you also have "Lighthouse Worlds" partnered with the Navy and Navis Nobilite that help strengthen supply lines and paths of travel by acting as ports and eyes in the warp storm

>>54574358
Then there are Forge Worlds which need no introduction, and "Law and Logistics" worlds headed by the Arbites, Custodes, Temples, and larger Guard apparatus.

These "shrine" worlds make the Imperium fast, sustainable, and stable

>>54574406
To clarify, these "Court Worlds" (name pending) exist to enforce law and order, while acting as early respond contingencies for new threats.

As for the Custodes name drop, in my head canon, the Custodes get a contingent of Astartes and other high profile units to hit things and hit them hard

>>54574776
>>54574406
>>54574358
So these are classifications on top of the Agri-worlds, feudal worlds etc?

>>54573724
My biggest concern is just how big you're making Kincaid himself here. He should be very influential in setting up the initial church, but I think that a lot of these decisions should be moved to other people,

The Ecclesiarchy should not be Kincaid's one man show.I like the idea of even Kincaid losing control over it.

>>54572022
Looks good man. I was expecting a Forge Lord Chaos Lord, but a DarkMech magos is pretty sweet too.

Can magos really use swords? Doesn't seem like something they'd really do.

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29 KB JPG

>>54575533
The weapon the models use is a fuckhueg axe, so I don't see why not.

>>54575533
See the...Myrmidons? W/e, FW has some neat melee Tech-Priests.

>>54575129
As for the worlds, few Shrine Worlds are just that, the Ecclesiarchy did this after the Primarchs leave to shore up their defenses and solidify the Imperium.

As far as Mars is concerned, it's more or less the first thing he does in terms of the founding of the Ecclesiarchy. His backing from Mars gives him MASSIVE political clout, but eventually flowers into an extremely fractured AdMech.

Him losing control of the church is intended, I thought I brought that up. His major contributions are thus

>Penning of the the treatise "Deus ex Corpus"
>Inquisition of Mars
>Establishment of the Ecclesiarchy

After that he's just trying to put out fires and herd cats. And this is after literally going to battle with rival cults.

Becoming the Prime Ecclesiarch was never going to be easy for him

>>54575902
Oh and Wardens later Chaplains, I guess.

>Malrass Ror, Chaos Lord of the Iron Ancients Warband

Malrass Ror is one of the oldest Astartes in the Eye of Terror. Terran-born, he became part of the XVIIth legion before it had been reunited with its gene-sire. Having been trained on Mars, Malrass was a techmarine. He served with excellence, but never climbed above the rank of captain.
His chapter, the 30th, was assigned to accompany the 414th Expedition Fleet, lead by Primarch Lambach Kropor himself. They would be supported by their twin Titan Legion: Legio Veterix. Over the course of the Great Crusade the 30th would build up a strong bond with the children of Kropor. They considered one another to be brothers as much as any marine from their own legions.

When the decades passed and the Warmasters’ Triumvirate was instated, orders eventually came to break off from the 414th. Upon returning to Manaan it became obvious that their separation would not be for long: Warmaster Je’She had called for the Censure of Lambach. Raj Vokar and Linares, Primarchs of the XVIIth and IVth legions respectively, were ordered to bring their brother back to Terra, in order to account for his actions. Raj and Linares sought to bring the situation to a peaceful end, and thusly Raj had called back the 30th chapter, so that they might help Lambach and his sons put down their weapons.

The Censure proved to be a disaster. A deep corruption had found its way into the mind and soul of the Primarch of the VIIIth legion, and soon warfare engulfed the Chosen’s homeworld: Miletus. The 30th chapter refused to attack their own brothers however. They threw in their lot with the Chosen of Hecate and their new, dark overlords.

>>54577504
In the centuries following the Brotherwar, Malrass fought his way to the top of the warband, a twisted remnant of the 30th chapter. The Iron Ancients, as they now call themselves, have received blessings from both Nurgle, the Lord of Decay, and Hashut, the Father of Darkness. Malrass himself has become a blighted mecha-lich, simultaneously a pale corpse and a mechanical abomination.

The Iron Ancients still use the Titans of old, now all possessed by daemons. The black, semi-spectral Titans bring death and decay to all those who lay their eyes upon them.

So, I'm catching up on the thread, but also figure I should throw in some of the stuff I've been working on. There are two links in the auxiliaries part of the spreadsheet that folks can look over, still in progress, but have the Auxilia Imperialis, the Solar Auxilia-equivalent, and the Tauric Host, a pre-Imperial Hashut force that later aligned with the Forge Lords.

>>54577542
>pre-Imperial Hashut force
How does that work? Hashut does not attain godhood until Mot crusades against the Separatist east.

>>54577592
Two ways: one, Chaos isn't linear, so it could be akin to Slaanesh before Slaanesh.

The other is that Hashut existed prior to this, so much in the way powerful warp beings and daemons exist and have influence.

Though largely because that is a revelation and no one told me when I was writing this stuff. :P

>>54577753
Mot probably knows it best, but last I heard Hashut is a xenos (Eldar?) AI that the Forge Lords find. They get corrupted by him, and they allow him attain godhood.

Basically, Hashut doesn't really become a thing until after the Eastern Crusade.

>>54577884
>>54577753

Hashut is an enigma, and is one (or all) of many things

Well, as an aside, something else I was working on and mentioned in discord, and am throwing up was an alternate vision of how the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy forms.

With no Goge Vandire or Sebastian Thor, the ban on 'men under arms' never becomes a thing, instead perhaps forward thinking, there is a ban on clergy above a certain rank holding any military or armed position, yet lower level clergy do, and raise holy regiments frequently. These often supplement or even are used in place of the Guard in some ways, something akin to the Ecclesiarchy equivalent of Skitarii; they are varied, depending on their planet and region of origin, what saints they pray to, what their tactics are, etc. Essentially, these holy regiments are just one aspect of the Imperial warmachine, though there is some truly hellish confusion in some warzones when you've got forces from the Imperial Guard, the Ecclesiastical Forces, the AdMech, and even Astartes all with their own command structures. Bloated bureaucracy can affect not only the civilian side of things, and toe stepping is common.

The Ecclesiarchy does maintain an elite, standardized force of monstastic warriors as well, however. These, both female and male, are power armored and wield bolters and other high-quality arms, and are deployed as the elite shock troops in many ways, something akin to the way the guard utilizes and trains Stormtroopers.

Or at least thats the jist of the idea.

>>54577972
^This.

>>54577972
>>54578431
Perhaps, but if one thing's for sure it's that Hashut did not become a god until he ascended in during Mot's rampage.

>>54578454
The easy fix is that the 'Hashut' of planet Taurica could be another aspect even of this ancient AI and when the Forge Lords were led to find Taurica, it absorbed it back into it. Actually I like that as it could explain some of their peculiar technology.

>>54578212
How does this sound as a brief timeline of Kincaid's faith and the formation of the church (we need to find a good name for it)

>Faith actually begins in Doomsinger Chamber Valdor, however separate cults and religions would rise and fall throughout the Galaxy, but this is the one that would become the Imperial Cult

The next phase I'm not so solid on. I've played with the idea that when the Phantoms Librarius goes up in flames, it creates a warp rift, and Kincaid is exposed to the Ruinous Powers, perhaps the Gods proposition him like they did Horus or Lorgar (he wouldn't remember this in full) or maybe there was an attempt for possession. Either way, he would wonder why he survived when so many others didn't. This plants a questioning seed, the same fearing, questioning kernel of insecurity that drives many to faith. The next part I have pretty well figured out.

>After Ullanor, perhaps the Emperor does some SERIOUSLY bad ass shit psychic powers wise. When he falls, Kinnévail is filled with wrath and sorrow. By the time the whispers of a cult to the Emperor reaches his ears, he is primed for belief. As Kor Phaeron exploited a wounded Lorgar, so is Kinnévail turned to faith

>Every conflict he survived against insurmountable odds only increases his faith, and he spreads it across his worlds like wild fire
>Meanwhile the faith reaches System Solar, and a shadow war dedicated to stamping out these cults ensues
>Once the Separatists make their move Kincaid is given near free reign back on Terra, having retired from battle to recover from near fatal wounds accrued fighting another Primarch and their legion.
>Here he finds a growing religion to his Father, and assumes a position of religious leadership in secret. Kincaid's more Machiavellian side is exposed as he attempts to unify Terran faith in an expansive proxy war.

>>54579189
>Facing massive difficulty in managing what is essentially a terrorist organization, he goes to Mars to see just HOW the fuck one makes a planet wide cult, much less a galaxy wide one, since pure faith alone only spurs conflict. While there he discovers some disturbing practices, as well as an easily exploitable multitiered internal conflict. He gathers around him a small base of support, as is his way, and lets them loose to spread his philosophy. This process takes a long time, but by the time that Chaos makes its move, Kinnévail is victorious and makes haste to Terra, to erect his monument of faith before rushing into the fray


Or something

>>54562146
>>54571796
>>54571909
>>54573585
>>54573724
>>54574358
>>54574406
>>54574776
>>54575902
>>54576058
>>54578212
>>54579189
>>54579346
All the Ecclesiarchy stuff for ease of access.

My final notes are thus

>Saints are a huge deal, and so are Astartes. Astartes are literal angels in the eyes of most folks, and the Primarchs are Archangels. The Primarchs canonized in the Imperial Faith are all the Loyalist ones plus Ashur. I've played with the Idea of Kinnévail himself not playing a major part in the Cult canon, if he's mentioned at all. There are three tiers of Saint, your big names like Ollanius Pious and the like, who are saints of broad sweeping concepts like "Duty", or "Honour", or Sacrifice. The tier bellow that are more minor saints who's sphere is more specific, and the tier bellow that are the billions of saints known only to certain places. This simultaneously creates unity through standardization, while still allowing for populations to leave their mark on the Cult

>The Ecclesiarchy is the single avenue for Xenos citizenship, the minor (they are pretty much always minor) Xenos are pressured into conversion and give up their worldly possessions and the law applies a myriad of restrictions on them such as denial of certain echelons of citizenship, certain jobs, they can't own land, etc. Xenos form a Servitor Citizen class, or are snatched up to perform certain specialist duties like assassinations

>

>>54580558
I'm pretty cool with everything except Xenos. That's for the seps. Not the loyalists

>>54581245
I don't think it's for the Seps.

>>54581266
I think Piter was doing something with the Tau. I'm not quite sure

>>54581360
Not the same. We've been o er this tho

>>54581245
Yeah. This Xenos argument took an entire thread over awhile back. I was of the same opinion as you but it got so out of hand I stopped careing.

>>54581245
>>54583022
Yeah, I'm not particularly fond of it myself. I think it's still kinda tacky and pointless; it really doesn't sit right.

Kinnévail places great importance on it though, for whatever reason. Perhaps he could expand on exactly WHY he wants it?

Also, we should take the whole xenos thing out of the context of Imperials and Separatists. I have been convinced that Seps would hate xenos, except for Piter.

>>54583303
I think it makes sense for the seperatists. They lack manpower and have a huge territory.
Under such conditions Empires recruit auxiliae.

>>54584335
Yet ideologically they hate them.

>>54583303
It was an idea brought up mostly because it is interesting. The idea of minor xenos true believers who willingly become subcitizens and all. Sort of plays into the all dominating aspect of the faith.

>>54584834
They were supposed to be complete slave auxiliaries; hordes of xenos that are forced to march into battle, or be exterminated.

The Imperium doesn't need xenos, they have the infrastructure and plenty of people to staff it with. The Union's preference for giving important positions to Astartes means they might actually run into a manpower problem, the Imperium wouldn't.

Point is, I don't see any reason as to WHY the Imperium should allow xenos anything, ESPECIALLY not citizenship.

>>54584926
Because it's fun? It adds flavor? It adds an interesting dynamic to the religious fervor?

I remember being part of the initial discussion that suggested it. I know what its about. :P

>>54584937
We can't argue fun; I don't think it's fun to remove that religious sense of human superiority over the aliens. If you think it might be fun to have Xenos auxiliaries, sure, I can't argue that with you.

But flavor? What do you mean flavor? I fail to see how adding aliens to the Imperium is supposed to give it more 'flavor'.

As for the 'interesting dynamic to religious fervor', again, I fail to see how being tolerant of others is supposed to be indicative of religious fervor. Sure, Xenos will still have pretty shitty lives, but it'd be less draconic that the OU's Imperium's treatment of them. The Imperium is supposed to be full of religious nuts; religious nuts don't respond well to green tentacles creatures that eat poop.

>>54584996
You have a strange view of tolerance, and indeed one I think is too binary. That said, the focus here is on the divinity of the Emperor far more than the superiority of mankind, though that is a thing for sure. However, I feel like the Seps are sort of inheriting that, while the Imperium has gone even deeper into the fervor of the divine, to the point that supplicant xenos are allowed to live, as a sign of the glory of the God-Emperor.

Is that more or less draconian? I think that's hard to say. Is slavery more or less cruel than simply killing them outright?

Also, as an aside, I think you're being too narrow on what a given religious nut will or won't night. Despite the jokes about 'catholic space nazis,' it really doesn't fit. Though the Imperium has the baroque trappings of gothic cathedrals, it fundamentally isn't. It lacks both the virtues and the vices of Abrahamic religions, its entirely its own thing, and it should be thought of as such, I'd say.

Part of the point of the xenos idea was to have it show a level of difference from the OU, where faith has become even more the dominant feature of the Imperium. I'd say this also contrasts well with the Seps who, rather than becoming a fanboy dream of a 'pure' state, are no better in the least, and are bad in their own ways. Neither faction fully reflects what the Imperium in the OU, be it early or late. They're divergences, both terrible in their own ways.

>>54584996
>>54585251
I think the whole Xenos question in this way: I actually think it's MORE grim and dark to have them, because it adds this dark and tragic tone to it. It takes the idea of the multiethnic, diverse empire, the cooperation between species and destroys it beneath the weight of the grim and the dark. This is not the empire of mindless slaughter, it's actually worse. It's an empire where brutal faith converts even xenos races into supplicants, using them as fuel to spread and drive forth its inexorable machinery, a marching cathedral war machine that not merely destroys the races of the universe, it subverts them. But there are no rights, no movements for egalitarianism, there is no bright future of cooperation and mutual understanding: there is only war, and brutal subjugation, where everything about them is stripped down, and they are turned into nothing more than fodder. They lose even themselves to it, their own identies subverted beneath the weight of the faith that dominates everything, not even allowed to die their own speices, but instead as yet another mewling wretch for the Carrion Throne.

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>>54584834
Some of them, anyways. I think they'd be willing to bend on that one.

>>54585251
This I like.
>>54585307
And quite agree on that one.


In other news, I wandered into a Tibetan gallery today. It was quite cool and filled me with inspiration for the Dusk Phantoms. I have a new idea for Gyahdred's weapon and some of the weapons of the legion, as well as some of their trimmings.
Unfortunately I couldn't take pictures in there, but there were some great statues. There was this huge Garuda with like foot long talons and a burning third eye, stomping on a daemon of ignorance, sort of like an infinitely more belligerent Shiva nataraja.
There were also gilt skull-shaped cups for offerings. The old ones would have actually been human skulls. The Dusk Phantoms definitely do something similar.
So there was this one statue of something with a human head behind that of some sort of beast with dozens of arms, each with a different symbolic item or gesture, slaying a daemon of ignorance and illusion and towards the center, it was holding a ritual blade and a skull-cup.
Pic somewhat related.

>>54586223
So in the case of the Revanants, I'm thinking they stride into battle, not just with multiple arms and strange esoteric weaponry, but also with ornate haloes and masks. They are clad in saffron robes over their plate and wear long chains of servo-skulls.
Units of body guards and standard bearers have elaborate colors, typically, one red, one blue, one white, one black, and one gold, holding the standard.
The helmets have gilt inlays depicting firey brows fangs. They stride into battle with vox grills blasting chanting and bells, chains of small bells tinkling as they move. When they strike a massive blow, they broadcast the sound of a massive gong and the mantra-wheels take a step forwards.
They take the idea of naturalistic karma, of a clockwork wheel of samsara and make it into a literal, tangible form.
(I want an army of these fuckers now.)

>>54581245
This argument was resolved about a thread or two ago. The Sepratists aren't united enough to make a blanket statement like "It's for the Seps". For Piter, perhaps, but the others would only bother with Xenotech at the very most. In comparison to Piter, the usage, and the races involved, would be extremely different.

>>54583303
This is my rationale as well >>54585251 >>54585307 it's not enough to purge them from existence, to prove the superiority of man, they must have all life in the galaxy bend knee to the Emperor, to live, work, fight, and die for Him. Conversion is a powerful political tool as well. Why waste man power wiping them out when you can just send some Astartes and a missionary team and have these primitive fucks falling at your glorious Homo Sapiens feet.

>>54586223
>>54586446
What do you think? >>54580558 obviously I need to finish Kinn's life story so I can work on a timeline of the church, but hopefully Behemoth will be willing to lend me a hand since he seems intradasted in the church

>>54587168
>Stovokor on Xeno-tech
So I'm trying to figure this one out. Obviously, the Admech loves to get their hands on anything they can, regardless of what official dogma says. I can quote examples from the OU canon at you, but I think we all know that the Admech is a bunch of magpies.

Anyways, as mentioned before, in Stovokor's interpretation, Motive Force pervades everything, it ebbs and flows and changes form. The Omnissiah Nature percieves this and becomes attached to a this-ness and desires, which lock it into a cycle of cause and effect.
Everything has an Omnissiah Nature, even (theoretically) chaos daemons, since they too partake in Motive Force. The problem with daemons and the like is that they are wrapped up in illusions so deeply that they are consumed by them.
I'm thinking that Stovokor believes in the reincarnation of things as the Motive Force cycles through the different states. I don't know whether this includes xenos forms, but it definitely includes animals and various types of machines. A particularly good serf may hope to be reincarnated as a Chimera, for example.

So Xenos technology definitely is the result of the Xeno's Omnissiah Nature kicking in. (Sorcery is anathema because it violates karma and the warp beasts feed on illusion.) The magi of Stovokor would find the average Eldar's emotional volatility evidence of a lack of discipline and enlightenment, but probably finds a craftworlder on a path better off. That Farseers turn to stone is evidence that attachment is bad for you. Their concern for the fruits of their labors turns them to stone because though they have one foot in the realm of the ways of Heaven and Earth, they are ablaze with attachment to their this-ness of their craftworld. The result is a cosmic instability, and as they oppose the changes of Heaven, they turn to stone. (I'm tempted to do up a pseudo-Yi-Jing for them...)

>>54587611
The Dusk Phantoms get around this issue (as do the magi of Stovokor) via the escape route that the Zen Monks used in Showa Japan, i.e. do one's duty without thought of oneself. Through mindfulness of the doing, one can be freed karmically.
(Hey, this is Techno-Buddhism in 40k. It's naturally going to be as fucked up as anything in 40k. The Dusk Phantoms have ideals, namely that they're putting off their own enlightenment until the universe has been made fit for humanity. They're necessary monsters, sort of Bodhisattvas from hell. But it doesn't make them irl Buddhists.)

Anyways, the fact that xenotech works, take the Tau for instance, since they're not using sorcery, means that the Tau have an Omnissiah Nature and use it to comprehend the universe and the flow of Motive Force just as humans do. Their technology, then, is kindred to that of humans. Therefore, meditation on their designs may prove fruitful.
I think it comes down to a matter of experience. In Stovokor ritual they meditate on auto-sutras and these include impossible machines. For most of the sangha, these designs have been vetted and used as part of a curriculum for thousands of years. However, these xenos devices may contain unseen dangers, hidden illusions, etc. So multiple lamas will go over them to ensure that there's nothing lurking to snare the mind. In the case of Tau tier stuff, that's a pretty quick process, since it's all straightforwards. In the case of Eldar, it takes a lot longer, since there's warp witchery to it. Necron crap doesn't ever fucking end because it's all fractal crazy shit.
This means that some designs put out by the Magi of Stovokor has xenos influence, either in terms of borrowed subsystems or in terms of design influence. For example, there was a guy I'd thought up a few threads back who had a siege gun that had capacitor banks laid out in an Eldar inspired style that increased the efficiency.

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>>54587732

To investigate potentially dangerous machinery, the Lamas will create Machine Spirit Thought Forms, a special sort of Data-Djinn, which lack full self awareness. They're sort of a remote veiwing system in which programs can be run and if things go awry, can be deleted before damage can occur, distinct consciousness run in a separate partition. They're tulpas, basically and I may call them that.

Picture is a devotional image of Khrag-Thung, a ferocious Machine Spirit, of whom Gyahdred is believed to be an incarnation.
(IRL it's actually an Tibetan image of Mahakala, a form of Shiva, also found in Tibet and points beyond where he takes a number of forms.)

>>54587887
>>54587732
>>54587611
Seems cool, but it also seems very complicated. No one's going to know what you're talking about unless they've paid very close attention to your personal lore.

>>54588128
Now live from a Taiwanese hot spring:
Yeah, good point. What I'm really going for is the idea that the dusk phantoms and company borrow more and with less angst. They also don't hate xenos for being xenos, the Phantoms just destroy things that get in the way.
Usually that's xenos, but if the Demiurge are bro tier, then they're no less annoying than regular humans.

>>54506699
bump because get off of discord if you want to keep your threads alive goddamn that troll from earlier was right

>>54587887
Pretty cool, a little convoluted but it's not like they need to spread their faith

What do you think of the Ecclesiarchy stuff?

So, I've had a couple of ideas for for non-Sep Pale Hounds successor chapters. They aren't particularly filled out at the moment, but I thought I'd just toss the basics out.

>Hounds of the Apocalypse:
Chaos Hounds. Corrupted by the Loxodontii in the early days of their heresy. Most come from the Hounds' 13th chapter which often crusaded alongside (or at least nearby) the Loxodontii. Don't make their rebellion known until the middle of Mot's eastern Crusade. Until then they acted as spies and saboteurs within the hounds, practising the arts they had been so well taught. Eventually reveal themselves during a battle between the Forge Lords and the Hounds they believed would leave no survivors. However, some Hounds did survive and brought news to Valorn of his sons infidelity. Valorn then proceeded to hunt and kill their leader. They were led by Dacern Adras, a descendant of Guragol Adras, until his death at Valorn's hands. They blamed his death, and many of their subsequent failures, on the dark gods fickleness, their relationship with whom has grown evermore strained. They are just barely held together by their desire to take vengeance against Valorn for the death of their lord, which is kinda difficult considering that none of them know where Valorn is. As such they content themselves with raiding the territory of the Pale Hounds. They're loyal to Chaos Undivided, but don't quite worship the Gods. Certainly they still carry out rights, rituals and sacrifices, but these are seen more as business transactions than acts of religious significance.

>Wolves Repentant:
Loyalist Hounds. Abandon Valorn extremely early on and fight on the loyalist side for the entire duration of the brotherwar. Lose most of their troops in the process, but have enough to form a chapter post-heresy. Initially led and founded by Karsis Adras, a descendant of Guragol Adras and half brother to Dacern Adras. Karsis survives the Brotherwar and leads the chapter for many years after its end.

>>54506699
The roller coaster that is the Army has mentally drained me.

>You're going to another unit
>But first you're going to a lengthy grass-cutting detail
>But first you're going to NTC
>You're also going to be on grass-cutting detail until a month after the brigade, and your future company, deploys
>Which means the likelihood of you deploying is going to be low

What have I missed?

>>54594449
>NTC
RI fucking P amigo. Hope you like sand and the very real possibility of either death or landing yourself in US Army WTF Moments

Also >>54580558 >>54587168

>>54594595
>RI fucking P amigo. Hope you like sand and the very real possibility of either death or landing yourself in US Army WTF Moments
It already happened, I was just musing on the chain of events. The most current ones are the last two.

>>54594595
>>54594631
In October I had the distinct honor of attending my 2nd NTC rotation--my 3rd CTC rotation because of a fun trip to JRTC--2 months before ETS.

Felt like a waste of time, man.

Totally not relevant but I like finding other dudes that have been there.

>>54594118
I like these, especially the Hounds of the Apocalypse.

>>54594449
We ironed out a few details in the time line.
Still wanting to try and finish that atleast up to the chaos invasion of Terra.
Thebiggest thing to come up since you've been gone is The Imperium taking in Xenos as part of the religious cult.

>>54594118
>Professional merc chaos marines

I like it

>>54595171
>Thebiggest thing to come up since you've been gone is The Imperium taking in Xenos as part of the religious cult.
Literally like Nazis taking in Jews.

>>54596324
An apt comparison, considering the oft ignored particulars of the proposition

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeitslager

>>54596324
>Our Nikea should really have been regarding Xenos auxiliaries rather than using Psykers, cause this issue is going to schism us all IRL, lol.

>>54596475
Correction: Literally like ISIS taking in Jews.

>>54596475
There's an old rule of thumb for writing that says if you're having to explain the details all the time, the base concept needs work. Eventually, adding edge case after edge case starts to look like Ptolemy explaining the planets via epicycles just to keep the sun at the center of things.

>>54596919
Then let me simplify it to its core, anon: Xenos who surrender to the Imperium and convert to the faith get to live as in servitor slave caste, below even abhumans. This isn't voluntary in some (most) cases.

Where is the confusion? People act like I'm advocating for Blank Xenos Marines, for Christs sake. There's just this nonsense knee jerk reaction to mixing ideas in an alternate universe. It's ridiculous. Xenos auxilia isn't even a new idea for the Imperium, read the fucking lore

>>54597017
Are they actually servitors then?

>>54597048
In most cases no. I simply use the term to describe the kinds of tasks they perform and their treatment. They live in ghettos, the church and !=][= keeps a firm boot on their neck, they can't own property, and are chattel slaves by and large

>>54597216
How many of these xenos are there?

>>54597349
I imagine that there aren't enough for it to make a difference on the tabletop. Maybe comparable to Tau codices making reference to gue'vesa but not going into detail about them.

>>54594118
Cool stuff. What's the Wolves' motive?

>>54592202
I like it. I'll do a fuller response later.

Fate of the Chosen
After Warmaster Marduk's defeat at the siege of Terra Lambach Kropor retreated much like the other Legions, into the Eye of Terror with his fleet as well as the corpse of Raj Vokar.
The Master of Undeath retired to his own world in the eye and immediately set to turning it into a twisted version of his once beloved Miletus. A sickly, green mist blankets the streets and grave moss and decay cling to what would once have been considered beautiful architecture. Lambach spends his time in the large temple he has had constructed. Dedicated to Hecate which Lambach now knows was just an ancient incarnation of Nurgle itself, misconstrued by time.
Forever seeking the answer to the question that plagues him still; How to resurrect his dead brother. The corpse of Raj is kept in an eternal ward of stasis conjured by Lambachs sorcery in order to prevent its decay. Lambach has grown increasingly insane with the frustration of this endeavor and while his constant experiments may yield success on regular humans they seemingly have no effect on Raj himself. Lambach is haunted by the ghost of the Titan Lord and constantly talks to it while he whittles away at eternity, if this "ghost" is an actual manifestation of Raj, some daemon seeking to control Lambach's actions or simply the imagination of a mad man are unknown to all, perhaps even Lambach.
The Primarch of the VIII Legion rarely leaves his work but when he does it is too chase some rumor or snifter of knowledge retaining to his impossible task that he feels he cannot trust his underlings with.

>>54603316

The Chosen themselves are greatly divided regarding their feelings towards the Father they once loved. Almost half stick by his side and believe that one day the Primarch will unlock the secret to ending their eternal curse. The rest have openly renounced their allegiance to the Legion and strike out on their own in marauding warbands. Selling their services to whichever chaos Warlord pays them the most.
The curse of the Chosen itself ensures that they essentially can never truly be killed. Once Lambach had thrown his lot in with Nurgle he simultaneously ordered the full scale retreat from Miletus' surface. Each individual marine boarding whichever ship in the fleet that they could get too. Unknown to the Legion though Lambach had agreed to let the Chosen of Hecate fleet be host to a multitude of Nurgles Greater Daemons. These powerful beings merged with the machine spirits that powered the ships of the fleet, irreparably corrupting the great ships and bonding to them the souls of all the mortals on board.

>>54603324
These Funeral Fleets, as they have come to be known can never truly be destroyed, left long enough they will slowly regenerate any damage they have taken and begin the assault anew. Even those that are completely atomised are merely banished to the warp realm and with a heinous ritual and great sacrifice banished ships can be re summoned into real space.
The Legionaries themselves who perish on a planet's surface dissolve and inexplicably awaken indistinct amounts of time later on the ship they have bonded too. They find the injuries that had bought them low to have been horrifically and often inadequately repaired by the swarms of Nurglings that infest every inch of the ship, leaving them with a horrendous, ghastly and rotten appearance, those that have been reduced to slag by weapons in the vein of Plasma cannons can take on an exceptionally disgusting visage. Some hide their appearance beneath robes while many find that they can use their newfound features to inspire terror into those they attack.

>>54603334
The favored tactic of the Chosen of Hecate is to swarm lone vessels and infect them with the blight of Nurgle. Bonding the mortal crew into servitude, disgorging wave after wave of plague Zombies onto a planet to overwhelm or wear down the populations defenses. These indentured ships never gain the full extent of the original curse and once they are destroyed in combat they simply remain as such.
Of the Loyalist forces the Titan Marchers in particular despise the Chosen of Hecate and believe that one day they will be given the chance to recover the corpse of their beloved father and will finally get to lay his bones with the rest of the Legions deceased heroes.

Not all Chosen of Hecate would turn to Chaos though, at very least it is known that the Rune Claws chapter of Space Marines that fight for the Separatists faction were forged by the Primarch Gyhadred himself and given a full pardon for the actions of their Gene - sire. It is also rumoured that perhaps one or two successor chapters of the Silver Blades are descendants of Loyalist Chosen.

>>54603316
Brain Ghost Raj is now confirmed canon, lol. I never realized that Hecate was supposed to be Nurgleth. Very interesting.

>>54603324
I like this, it's a nice allusion to what happens with the Thousand Sons. In fact, in this AU, the Nurgle guys are more of a sorcerer legion than Tzeentch guys.

>>54603334
>Funeral fleets
ayyyy

You already know what I think of these things: they're bloody awesome.

>>54603344
Yup, the Marchers hate the Chosen. I still want to work out the Iron Ancients, see >>54577504 and >>54577518, some more, since I think that the dynamic between them and the Chosen remnants are very interesting.

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>>54603316
rajandlambach.jpg

>>54603394
> Yup, the Marchers hate the Chosen. I still want to work out the Iron Ancients.
Perhaps they just suffer from the same curse as the Chosen do, some how one of the Daemons got on board their chapters personal ship? Or they can be affected by Nurgle in a different way?

>>54603733
Lambach could bind a daemon to their ship, but he'd have to know these guys are with him.

Do the Chosen just run to ships and fly away from Miletus? Because if that's the case, they Iron Ancients could simply run off with them. Lambach binds the ship while they're hiding with Elsu.

>>54603878
In my mind the ships are infected instantly at the battle of Miletus, but take awhile to fully manifest.
And yes they do just rush to thier ships.
Perhaps the Iron Ancients ship was with the Chosen fleet for so long that it just also gets a daemon infestation and they don't realise it for awhile?

>>54580558
>>54585307
>>54587168
Awesome stuff all over.
The shortest bit first:
>Xenos Toleration
I can totally see where you're coming from on this one. The only question is whether Kincaid would see it that way since the Emperor... actually grants protectorates sometimes. So plausible, I suppose. Then again, this is the guy who's saying that even Xenos have Omnissiah Natures.

>Cult and Society
I think this offers a really great organizational tool to the Imperium, wherein Army, Navy, and Industry all get to share in a direct divine connection. It also, I think, would lead to a very high status for Astropaths and Navigators.
It would also make warp turbulence an infinitely more terrifying thing, since when the Astronomicon isn't visible, the Emperor's presence is literally gone. Not that you'd tell the grunts, but still.


>Once the Separatists make their move Kincaid is given near free reign back on Terra, having retired from battle to recover from near fatal wounds accrued fighting another Primarch and their legion.
I've got the Dusk Phantoms set to go burning through Kincaid's domains to try to pull him away from the front with Je'She and Aristede in hopes that Aristede will convince Je'She of the threat of Chaos.
Perhaps, Gyahdred being Gyahdred even tries to warn Kincaid of Chaos when they meet to duel.
"Hey dude, so I know that I am destroying all of your things, but it was to get you to come over here so we could talk about this huge threat to everyone. Why are you angry? We can rebuild everything I've destroyed. Seriously. Stop being so childish. Why are you so emotional?"
Or something like that. Gyahdred isn't terribly fond of Kincaid to begin with, so he may also be intentionally nettling him. Like the Lion, he overestimates the power of DUTY, though.
Still, the encounter may give Kincaid some info he needs for the defense of Terra or something.

>>54603998
Makes sense. The Iron Ancients were attached to Lambach's Expedition Fleet for decades, almost a century. They'd be a pretty permanent part of it.

>>54604328

>>54586446
On this sort of tangent, I'll do up a doodle of a revenant or three on my flight, along with some weapons for the legion, but I'm thinking that a common item will be a phurba style blade-- it's a long, three sided blade.
I'm thinking in the legion's case, they've got rotational cores with mantra-wheels and track kills. They also have the added function of electrifying the blade. In the case of power weapons, though, they're just decorative.
The Librarius also carries them, in various sizes.
In Tibetan practice, they're used to pin down daemons and the like, so it might be neat if Librarians could use them to tack shadows in place. They also represent the soul, but here I think it would be pretty cool for them to throw half a dozen dagger sized blades into a greater daemon's chakra and bind it or slay it.

I like your story, Borp. We could write about the encounter of Lambach and Linares in 000.M42. And well, the Silver Blades themselves don't hate at all the Chosen. They hate them because Chaos, but they still see them as their brothers, making the confrontations between them bitter in the Blades' side. How would the Chosen feel about the Blades?

>>54607119
I don't see why that sense of kinship would still be there nearly 10,000 years later. By then none of the Blades would have any sort of relationship with the Chosen that's brotherly. Don't forget the power of millenia of war and superstition.

Plus, writing for M42 is a pretty daunting task. Let's keep it to the Brotherwar and shortly after for now.

>>54603394
After the Warp Crusade, Linares could see Brainghost Raj too, further decreasing his sanity and joyness. Also

>Which tank is that one
>A Raj Vokar, sir
>That's a ni…
>Sir?
Looking at the tank, thousand yards stare
>Sir!?
>Nothing, I'm ok
That night, rivers of alcohol descended upon Linares throat, and liters of tears fell from his eyes

>>54607184
Yes, let's keep it for the future. And I'm not talking about M4, but about some years after the Brotherwar. Ofc, the brother feel will only be kept by the most ancient Dreads by then. But, I dunno, maybe some stories about the good ol' times can be told. Anyway, yes. By M41 the Blades see the Chosen as Traitors, period.

>>54607242
After the Brotherwar, yeah, that works. I find it unlikely anyone would allow positive stories about the traitors would be allowed to be told.

>>54607335
Neither gambling is allowed
Y'know, that kind of story told around a fireplace in the night when you go hiking

Vump

Let's go through the early stages of the Brotherwar.

>Tensions between the future Loyalists and future Separatists rises
>Conflicts over planetary governors lead to small skirmishes between legions
>Malcador calls for a meeting on planet 'New Hope'
>He wants to stop the fighting before it gets out of hand. He might try to reveal the existence of Chaos
>Elsu assassinated Malcador on the way from Terra to New Hope
>Conflicting reports from the survivors leads to finger-pointing from both sides
>The powder keg explodes and the Brotherwar begins
>Separatists declare their independence

So what happens then? Marduk and the legions he has on his side cannot afford to keep quiet for too long, a couple of months at most. Do they reveal themselves by having the Loxodontii whip up the Ruinstorm?

>>54602346
In short, they disagreed with the ideals of the Separatist movement. In long, most of the original Wolves felt that the High Lords were an institute of the Emperor's founding, much like the adeptus astartes themselves. They trusted that the emperor would have made sure that (in the event of his incapacitation/death) a primarch would be placed in charge of the imperium if he felt it was the best course of action. That he hadn't spoke volumes in their eyes and that Frederick sought this position spoke even more.

Not entirely sure what they're like Post Brotherwar. I'm thinking they might be deeply religious and guilty missionary types who spend most of their time trying to convert as many of their heathen brethren (the separatist Hounds, not the chaos worshippers) to the worship of the Emperor as they can. It's a kind of peace offering on the legion's behalf. "sorry for turning from you" that sort of thing.

>>54607119
The Chosen are all pretty well Chaos insane by M42. Most probably can't tell the difference between Loyalists and Seperatists. Just see them all as more fodder to be converted. They'd see the Blades the same as every other Legion by that time. Basically they lay the blame for thier curse at every body else's feet. Some that keep thier sanity in check to an extent may remeber the bond they once shared with the Silver Blades, but they also remember the Blades attacking them when in thier minds they had done nothing wrong.

>>54610667
I think we're gonna put Marduk and Isekho at the peace meeting as a neutral party with perhaps Elsu as back up. They pull back once fighting starts with the excuse of not wanting to fight for either side.
Then when the time is right Marduk joins the fighting with his own agenda hopefully giving us a 3 way duel between the Warmasters. Meanwhile the Phants are seeting up the ruinstorm ritual I believe.

>>54612534
Maybe Mot is doing his daemon archaeology project at the same time. I still need to know if Solomon is going to be there at the behest of the eldar to try and stop him.

>>54614335
Solomon is fighting at the peace treaty I believe?

>>54615653
Watch out!

Thought for the thread

Quanyu becomes possessed by a greater daemon (Belakor? Kairos?) through plot shenanigans, and sends the rest of the Doomsingers into Chaos, simply so I can fit this in somewhere

>Long ago on distant Terra, I, Quanyu, the shape-shifting master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Astartes warrior, wielding a Vorpal Chain, stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where chaos has usurped law! Now the fool seeks to return to the past and undo the future that is Quanyu!

>>54597349
Not really a lot. There's crushing trillions at the very least in the human population. What minor xenos left alive will make up a tiny shred of the population. Usually they'll just stay on the conquered planet and mine or farm or something.

>>54615076
>>54614335
That's a great diplomatic blunder.
"Je'She, you've already broken the peace. We have reports of Solomon assaulting Mot. Pray tell why."
"He has his reasons. (Damn it Solomon, what are you playing at?)"
"I think you're trying to secure your hold on power. End it before we attack to restore the peace."
"I will not. Solomon fights for honor."
(Also I can't. Solomon isnt answering his phone. But I'm not telling them that. Itd also make me look weak. Solomon, you smegger!)

Idea for the Blades' Scouts:

>Bandoleros

These guys were mainly recruited from convicts charged for being Bandoleros, a special kind of bandit that plagued Kadir's roads. They all were proficient with both navajas and pistols, and were known for their ability to move from one place to another without being noticed.

They form the scouting groups of the Legion, wearing a lighter power armor, or, in some cases, no armor at all, and carrying their Navajas and bolt pistols, mainly.

>>54610851
Cool. You could put them in the factions tab of the sheet.

>>54612468
Exactly. Chaos corrupts absolutely.

>>54612534
Should they have their three-way battle on New Hope? I mean, it makes sense, but I'm not sure Marduk should reveal himself that early on.

Also, doesn't Isekho run off after the censure of Pacha? Or is it well known he runs to Marduk, who then keeps him close?

>>54618352
This is a Navaja. A kind of spanish traditional folding knives. They come in a variety of sizes, from small, self-defense ones, to big, sort of short sword, with a 40 cm blade.

File: 350px-Navaja2.jpg (15 KB, 350x263)

15 KB JPG

>>54618842
I think you forgot your pic there.

They seem kinda small for Marines though. Can't they just use combat knives?

>>54618634
I just don't see a better opportunity to have all 3 in the same place for a fight I think? It could be our only real shot at that scene and also it would be a great start to the 3 way war.
I imagined Isheko going right to Marduk and then kinda acting in tangent with him from Pachas censure onwards?

>>54617148
You say that, but it might also go down like this:

"Je'She, you've already broken the peace. We have reports of Solomon assaulting Mot. Pray tell why."
"He's a bit of a prick, Frederick."
"Yes, I suppose you are right."
Everyone nods in agreement.

>>54619048
Fair enough. Shortly after New Hope the galaxy gets cut off by the Ruinstorm, and by the time it wanes Marduk is dead. So we Triumvirate fight happens there, sounds good. That would mean that Chaos reveals itself pretty quickly after Malcador's death though. A matter of days at most.

As for Isekho, yeah, that makes sense.

>>54612534
I understand the Phants are the best pick for BIG CHAOS RUPTURE INTO REALITY things but when was this decided? The Phants are making a spell to transform Ashur into a Daemonprimarch, though.

Honestly, I think it should be that Lambach helps preparing the Ruinstorm ritual with the Loxodontii Stargazers after the Collaring, and they're later joined by Marduk to finish it.

>>54618878
Yes, I forgot and the Internet is slow here, so I couldn't fix the fuck-up. As I said, they vary greatly in size, I've seen one with a blade 50cm long. Of course, this is an exception, but Navajas that big are possible, so an Astartes-sized one seems likely. And don't forget, these are folding knives, and when you see someone unfolding it, you will shit bricks. They are scary.

And well, adults can be made Astartes too, right? Because if they are recruited from existing Bandoleros, there's a too little possibility to catch one young enough to be made an Astartes. So these Scouts would receive the gene-seed when adults and peform their assigned task, rarely being used for something else.

But don't be mistaken, they are excellent fighters. They receive combat training too, and they already are skilled in the usage of their weapons, so they would be able to best other scouts and patrols in combat, and perform raids against the enemy rear while in battle.

>>54619088
If they can be bigger, I don't see why it'd be impossible to make Power Navajas. Do your thing.

Adults cannot be made into proper Astartes. They can get some of the implants, but they'll never be proper Space Marines, they're often referred to as half-Astartes. It's a dangerous and unusual practice, one usually only reserved for those close to the Primarch.

>>54619105
Could they be just recruited w/o implants?

>>54619276
Non-astartes cannot be part of a legion. They also seem too specific to be an auxillary/Imperial Guard-like force.

>>54619083
We were talking about it in doscord the other day as too who was fighting at new hope.
I wasn't able 100% sure what the Phants were up to at the exact time. That's just what I thought they might be doing. Sorry if I got it wrong mate.
As for Lambach helping, at the time of New Hope he is busy getting his ass handed to him for a third time by the Dusk Phantoms (it's a hard loglfe being a bad guy).
Perhaps Mendel could be assisting though? He is a stronger psyker than Lambach so might be better suited?

>>54619302
Roger that...then, they would be recruited in the Standard way, but trained by said Bandoleros

>>54587168
>>54597017
I understand we're you're coming from, but I still stand by what I said. I would rather keep the 'suffer not the xenos to live' doctrine in our AU. It keeps something familiar to readers that aren't us.

>>54619069
>>54617148
>Je'She receives these reports while at the negotiation table
>sweatsnervously.dataslate

>>54620165
>Imperial xenos
I'd prefer to keep the xenos out as well.

>Solomon report
But isn't Solomon one of the two brothers Je'She takes along? I think the conflict between Mot and Solomon is supposed to take place earlier in the timeline; Hashut has been influencing the Forge Lords, while disguised as an archeotech AI, for quite a while by the time the New Hope Summit takes place.

>>54618634
Will do.

>>54622069
Done, and in case anyone is wondering "Arcturus Zul" is the name of the guy who runs the Hounds of the Apocalypse in M41.

How many avatars of khaine has your primarch killed?

>>54623659
1 *confirmed* kill
He says that at least 6 have perished by his hand alone, and another 3 along his retinue.

bump

>>54623659
one, via sniper fire

Saved.

Going to be busy all week, so expect no progress from me

Bump