So I was thinking about what battlefield tactics would be needed as a necromancer. Say you can have a few skeletons at a time, with basic equipment, but what equipment would you give them? Spears or swords? Axes or maces? What would the ratio of archers to melee infantry be? I read a bit on ancient battlefield formations and it seems that if an enemy is spread out, they are vulnerable to shock tactics, and if they are grouped, they are vulnerable to ranged attacks from bows. How would you take advantage of a skeleton's resistance to arrows? Grouping them together? Anyway, I'm sure a lot of other anons out there have more knowledge than me, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Don't stand out, raise fallen enemies as zombies, prolly camouflage your skeletons in armor so that they can help you in a tight spot.
>>54476541Yeah, but what about in the middle of a fight? Would you have your spearmen stay back in a shield wall formation whilst your archers pelt the enemy with arrows? I think not committing would be best because unless the enemy has a mage they don't really have an answer to long ranged combat vs you.
okay, so I've got a questionwhen you raise the dead, you generally get zombies or skeletons... is there a standard creature for just raising the flesh-part?like zombies are flesh+bone, skeletons are just bone, so is there just flesh?
>>54476684If you raised a creature of just flesh it wouldn't have the skeleton to give it shape. Even if it had a shape through magic, I'm sure a skeleton would be more efficient. So probably no. Though maybe there is some creature out there that fits the description. Like a flesh goblin?
>>54476474We can't really tell unless we get into specifics of these creatures.Like, skeleton archers sound wicked cool cause logically they should have some resistance to arrow fire, but what if they are fucking terrible at using bows?If the undead are just equivalent to a normal person (but... undead) it'd make sense that the same sort of squad tactics work as with a normal party.
>>54476474Spears and later pikes were the standard infantry armament since the earliest recorded histories because they're cheap, effective, and scale well. The Romans bucked the trend with sword and shield but largely because of training and tactical advantage (e.g. drawing enemy spear formations into rough terrain to help break the formation), and the effectiveness of the Roman method dropped off as time went on and they began to rely more heavily on auxiliaries. The only place where you wouldn't want to bring a pike regiment is for city fighting where they don't have room to maneuver the pike; on the field they can half-hand the pike at worst (but normally the dude behind you stabs anyone that gets past your pike).The big question mark of the scenario is morale and intelligence. Presumably, skeletons have no morale and as such will not rout because a cavalry charge just hit their flank. Early warfare is just as much a battle of morale as anything else, people have a natural inclination towards avoiding death and will often disengage when things are looking disfavorable. On the other hand, will the skeletons even understand there's a cavalry charge on their flank and react to it intelligently, or will they just stand there and eat the hit?If you start doing combined arms with archers and cavalry you can pretty much use the standard playbooks, maybe even the later pike and shot tactics if you're mixing in skeleton mages. But it's always going to be a battle of morale because actually wiping out an army in its entirety was exceedingly rare, and nominally sound tactics can be broken by abusing morale (e.g. a point blank musket barrage can break a cavalry charge just by the noise and shock scaring the horses).
>>54476734That is very interesting but the specific situation I had in mind was more of a squad tactics thing. Such as one mediocre necromancer with 6 or so undead facing an adventurer or two or so. I am sure in that situation moral would still have a place but not as much. I mean would a party even have a horseman? Anyway your discussion has as much of a place here as any other given the topic.
>>54476768When facing unique opponents you need to be uniquely adapted to fight them. There's not really any advice to be given without knowing the specific circumstances.
>>54476717well flesh golems have bone (i assume) i think what he was asking for the gibbering mouther but made out of melted down corpses animated by a necromancerWhich is sick idea for a 5th level party to encounter when going to take down a necromancer his "failed" experiments of these half alive piles of flesh and liquefied bone
>>54476806But we can consider specific circumstances. Against a mage for instance, considering they may have large area of effect spells, wouldn't spread out archers be the best counter?
Skeletons are great for attrition warfare, assuming they don't need the necromancer to be awake.They don't need to sleep, they can pose just enough treat to prevent enemy from resting.
>>54476850>well flesh golems have bone (i assume) Literally why would you do that? Do you think bone golems have skin? Stone golems have wooden frames?Fucking idiot.
>>54476871Depends on what spells they have. Charms and Illusions? Whatever, just send your minions on up. Fireballs out the ass? You better know ahead of time or you won't be able to split up fast enough. Necromancer with spells to take control of your undead? Maybe hire some mercenaries instead.Point is, there's a lot of small tactical changes you can make, but you don't know which ones are the correct ones unless you know who your opponent is.
>>54476474where possible try to maximize the efficacy of your undead. don't use gauntlets when you can take time to etch the bones with strengthening runes and rivet iron directly to them. include hidden blades, internal storage for supplies, ammunition, or suprises. necromancers really do benefit from crafting skills and feats.they carry both melee and ranged weapons since they don't need food, fire, or shelter they can carry those things in abundance. I'd say light/medium shields and spears for formation melee, a long knife or short sword as a backup, and every one of them carries a shortbow(cheaper, lighter, smaller) and 50 or more arrows. finally inside each rib-cage is an area deterrent, be that a censer full of burning toxics/irritants, an explosive device(s), or a large aggressively angry beehive is up to you. depending on your GM and his rules on encumberance they also all carry a mace or light warhammer for less impact-resistant foes.>pdf only partially related, it's a story I wrote a long time ago that touches on your topic
>>54476891They're made from stitched together body parts right?Body parts have occasionally been known to contain bones, believe it or not
>>54476941That was a nice read. If the shields are larger they will be able to protect the infantrymen next to them as well. The downside is that they wouldn't be able to use two-handed, longer spears then. Depending on how many undead you have, lighter shields and longer spears with deeper formations would be better if you have a lot. If you don't then larger shields with shorter spears would probably be best.
>>54476941That sounds rather time consuming. When's a Lich supposed to leisurely contemplate the nature of undeath?
>>54477035Well he has all the time in the world.
>>54476474>So I was thinking about what battlefield tactics would be needed as a necromancer.Undead bombs.
>>54477102Elaborate>>54476941An area deterrent is genius. I recall hearing about mushrooms that are poisonous just to be around. Having that in their ribcage would definitely be amazing.
>>54477126>Elaborate3.x had a feat that just straight up made your undead explode with negative energy when destroyed, if I remember right. Not really much thought necessary unless you were worried about collateral damage. Send waves of skeletal rats at your foes.
>>54477032that has a lot to do with the numbers the necromancer in OP can keep up simultaneously. but either way it's fine, most games don't offer mechanical advantages for group cover so the smaller shields probably work better at a better currency:defense ratio.>>54477035>When's a Lich supposed to leisurely contemplate the nature of undeath?have you never simply set to a craft you know well and allowed your mind to wander and your hands to do the work?it's a theraputic experience.>>54477032>>54477035oh, and that last line that trails off should read >“The eternal Legion, at your service all volunteers accounted for awaiting your leave to depart and do what must be done…”because I wanted the story to stop there before it devolved into mary-sue BS about a retired adventurer kicking the shit out of some orcs.>>54477126>I recall hearing about mushrooms that are poisonous just to be around. Having that in their ribcage would definitely be amazing.problem there(same with the bees) is that you can't turn it off. that and mushrooms are decomposers by nature, makes them less ideal. spore-mines might be good in exclusively sacrificial troops though. raise some quickies that release the toxins when re-killed causing death to pursuers.
>>54477126>>54477163Is there something like a gasmask in d&d for the mushrooms?
>>54476941>shortbow>skeletons>drawing a knocking a bowCrossbows at best. Javelin more likely.>giving your skelies macesWhat so people can disarm them and beat them to death with their own weapons?
>>54476474The first thing you need to know is NAGASH WAS WEAK
>>54476474Faust's first fight in shaman king.
Why would you fight a battle like normal?Make use of your necromancy to flank the enemy or deny them territory. Wipe out a unit then leave their bodies there so you can raise them behind enemy lines. Raise zombies in the middle of a shield wall to break the formation. Cover the battlefield in a thick smoke that will blind or choke your enemies, your soldiers don't need to breathe and probably don't see. Walk skeletons along a riverbed to infiltrate the enemy camp and ransack their supplies, your men can't starve. You can siege basically forever, and if you spread disease you can even start raising men inside the city walls. Get ghosts to haunt the shit out of them, preventing them from sleeping and wrecking their morale.There's so many ways to be a dick with necromancy.
I make them into skelecopters and use aerial shock attack tactics.
>>54477999>skelecoptersthats an example of a GM allowing too much I think.besides, you have to keep replacing the blades on those due to joint wear...
Yeah that's a stretch>>54478189
>>54477163Don't forget the negative energy heals the still standing undead near it.
>>54476559>Yeah, but what about in the middle of a fight?"I have these troops that march 24/7, fight without ever tiring, do not panic, and follow my every command perfectly down to the level of the single undead. They also outrun your cavalry over long distances, FYI."They basically command the best and fastest troops. Your only chance in an open field battle is to knock out the commander, either by killing him or aviod actual open field battles and fighting in hella broken and built-up terrain that doesn't allow him to effectively control his hordes.Good luck doing that though, as he can outmaneuver you on a strategic level and take your cities and fortresses well before they're actually prepared to resist and he'll easily dictate you engagements that are absolutely in his favour.
>>54476474>Say you can have a few skeletons at a time, with basic equipment, Does equipment encumber skeletons?How fast are your skeletons?How high can they jump?Can you reform skeletons?Could you control fossil skeletons?How strong is the skeleton arm swing?How fast can a skeleton parry?How well can a skeleton use a shield?If you remove its head, can the skeleton still function?If you remove its head, can the skeleton still see?Can skeletons crawl underground?There are many things you have to consider when you decide to use a skeleton. Because skeletons by their very definition are unrealistic as fuck, OP. Like, having dragons is more realistic than having skeletons.
>>54477359Go home Manfred. You're just the undead version of an armless failure.Nagash as well as Horus wreck yet shit anyday while you boast about being the very bestest.
>>54476474Personally I'm a fan of necromancers who go ham with their designs. Take the skeletons apart and reassemble them as an organic catapult. Skeletons with four arms, all carrying shields, at the front lines. Skelecopters with arms in place of legs, carrying greatbows. The possibilities are endless.It really makes the average lich more threatening when they just start cranking out skeleton abominations to serve specific battlefield roles. It shows they've put a lot of thought and talent into this whole 'conquest' thing.
The strongest part about undead is they don't need sleep or food and you can always raise more. Best tactic is to fuck with people nonstop for a few months and they'll literally defeat themselves.
>>54481962You could just grind down any human army in an open field battle. People can't go for more than a couple of minutes on full adrenaline while the undead will just keep on trucking until they've been hacked appart.So whenever they engage, the undead will just have to keep up the pressure until the unit they're opposing has run out of steam and then roll over them.
First consider the general traits of the undead. Let's do DnD 3.5, for example. If you just look at the list, you'll see that they're MUCH better than living humans, for example. Even the weakest skeletons don't need to breathe, eat, and sleep. They never become tired, and can't be routed (well, maybe intelligent undead can be, if they think they lost the battle). Basically, an undead army will always be superior to a living army of a comparable strength just by the virtue of its resistances and immunities, if we're not talking elite troops.Then consider individual undead unit types. Skeletons have resist 5/blunt, zombies have 5/slashing. 5 damage in DnD is like a sword swing or an arrow hit by a common soldier, so they're both very resistant to arrows. So even the weakest undead creatures need to be dealt with only with specific tools or magic.Next consider the elite undead, that can't be hit by non-magic weapons at all, or have fear auras, or have poisonous bite, or can turn humans into ghouls. Even a few of those creatures used as shock troops will decimate regular living army formation if there are no counters to them.Finally, consider what magic and technology can do to augment the undead strengths and cover their weaknesses. Suicide bombing with skeletons full of bottles of alchemical fire, zombie bats dropping poisonous gas bombs right in the middle of the ongoing battle, necromancers casting cloudkill that moves along with the advancing skeletons, and so on.TL;DR: whatever you do with undead, if it's not throwing them blindly into the fray against elite troops, it's going to be pretty spooky to the living armies. And if you have access to magic or elite troops, it becomes downright horrifying. Dropping infected zombies into the city severs, vampire assassins, chemical and germ warfare, death spells.
>>54481962Depend, you can have magical limits to their usage.
At a certain point the real limitation of an optimized skeletal army is the capabilities of the commander / command team. In the end they will still require a steady stream of accurate information to execute the maneuvers that fully take advantage of the skeletal army. You don't have to worry about your army breaking but you don't have the luxury of them having self preservation either if you accidentally miss-manage some micro. Having a familiar or some other form of telepathic control to assist would be extremely helpful, as would methods of observation that don't place yourself at risk.In our current 5e campaign we had have an NPC apprentice and the NPC guards of the evil tower defend while the PCs were off at a party. The apprentice was controlling the undead but was able to do so from the luxury of a permanent scrying effect on the field of battle. Due to our opponents having Shield, adjusting fire to a new target in the middle of going through the attacks required a readied action from the NPC apprentice to give the skeletons the adjusted orders in the middle of their barrage of arrows.
>>54482478Though at the end of the day you do have to also consider that the enemy army will have clerics and wizards of their own, maybe even golems, summoned creaturesIt's not just a case of 'undead win because logistics', although you'd be an idiot to ignore that because it's a huge part of it. Just not the only part.
>>54476474You iknow how Sun Tzu tells you to get to the battlefield first and await your enemy? Yeah, while you're waiting bury some of your undead forces so when the other guys show up your reserves can rise up from the ground in the middle of their formations. That will fuck up their plans pretty hard.Zombies make great biological weapons. If your zombies are puetrrefing, just the gas and stink that escapes when they get peirced can gag a man in close quarters, so it's like lobbing tear gas. Non lethal, but it can hinder the enemy so your zombies can have an eaiser time eating them. Then there's the higher risk of disease. Rotting corpses rolled in shit? yeah, that's gonna make someone sick. You need to be a little clever to make that work, since it's long term thing to kill with sickness. Use zombies as a "rear gaurd" since they're too damn slow to fall back when the enemy "totes has you on the ropse" and you fight a running battle with your tireless skeleton hordeThat's another thing. Zombies may shamble, but bonebags can move just fine. And they never sleep or eat. They never get tired. An undead army can FUCKING MARCH 24/7. YOU get to decide when and where every fight happens.If plauge zombies are too long term, try suplementing with some summoning. Get some horrible abyssal flesh eating parasites/carion feeders. Fill your zombies up with them. Zombie gets destroyed and aggressive land lampreys come swarming out set to latching onto and eating the poor bastard that dispatched it.Bones, leather, and sinew are all fine construction materials. Need seige engines? take apart some of your troops. Need more troops? Win a battle. Undead armies need next to no logistical support. Hell, instead of foraging, PILLAGE. Burn that shit to the ground. Kill some peasants to make more, then let the others flee as refugess that other cities NOW with less food coming from the farms you've already burned, now have to deal with.
>>54476474>can only control a few skellies at a timeShit tier necromancer.
>>54483672Then, when the leaders of the other cities realise they have no choice but to turn the refugees away, youslaugther them all within sight of the city wall and make the soldiers inside either feel cripling shame that demoralizes them, or go mad with lust for vengeance. Angry people are stupid. Stupid people take risks they shouldn't in battle and die.Zombies and Skeletons don't care about weather, or light. Fight at night in the middle of witner. Fight at the hottest part of the day in the middle of summer. TIRELESS UNDEAD HORDE vs. Meatbags sweating and dehydrating in their heavy metal armor. Doesn't matter if your zombies cant hit their AC if they all pass out from fatigue and are helpless defenders.If you can animate spirits as well you've got a really good deal going on. Now 1 dead person = 1 souless zombie/skeleton AND 1 incorporeal undead like a shadow or wraith. One dead body, two new soldiers.
Necro armies should be really weak to assassinations. You basically need your necromancer lieutenants to give orders to mindless undead, and if they're killed then the ranks start falling apart.
I mean, general necromancer strategy is attrition warfare, ambush tactics, and logistical subversion. The true advantage of having troops with infinite patience and extremely sparse supply line requirement (Replacement weapons/armour, maybe siege engine componentry) is in their mobility. They can go through the mountain passes and forests that a regular army would avoid, they can march for weeks at a time, they can operate without any chance of resupply at all for prolonged periods, and are capable of going to ground for great lengths of time. They don't rout, and they don't break formations.So taking all of that into account, it really doesn't matter that the average skeleton could be beaten by the average human, because by the time it comes down to a straight fight, the human army has been cut off from it's supply routes, has no avenue of retreat, and is utterly exhausted and broken from marching.It doesn't think, it doesn't feel. It doesn't laugh or cry. All it does from dusk 'till dawn is make the soldiers die.
>>54483931Necromancers aren't known for being easy to kill, but yeah, it's a definite weakness that any decent necromancer lord should think about.On the other hand, bodyguards who are 100% loyal, never sleep, and can't be distracted.
I wonder how a nation that uses combined undead/living troops would fight. Skellies could basically carry all supplies and stuff.
>>54484060There's little reason to use living troops except as elite units who do tasks that the undead can't, like operating behind enemy lines. Or, like, they're all multiclass wizards or something.
>>54476474I'd make heavy use of hierarchical, self-propagading undead. In D&D3, it was wraiths and shadows. You send your front line in, with the intangible creatures in the next rank. Their job is to land killing blows and recruit the enemy dead into your army. The nice thing is that monsters controlled by your own minions don't count towards your own limits.
>>54484060Why risk living beings in battle? The whole army is skeletons. All workers are skeletons. The living citizens become fat and lazy, the ambitious devoting their lives to study and the layabouts to hedonism. It would be a culture of absolute leisure.That actually sounds rad
>>54484139>>54484326What if the undead can do only simple commands like "attack", "retreat", "haul those boulders there" etc? You'd need some troops to do more complex tasks.
>>54484326You'd have to keep pretty strict population control though, or be extremely expansionist.
>>54484360Depends on the abilities of the undeads I guess. Whatever makes a more interesting story.
>>54484360You'd still want to make light use of human troops, given that most of those orders are what you'd give to your rank and file anyway.Like, the living would be the knights of this hypothetical army. Heavily armoured, decked out in the best gear money can buy. They are present to act as a highly mobile concentration of force on the tactical battlefield, one that is expected to act autonomously in support of the undead legion meatgrinder/tarpit.They're generally a liability on the strategic level, unfortunately, but c'est la vie. Or rather, c'est une vieille.
>>54484374Yeah! Like a totally pragmatic deep-south-during-slavery where everyone is essentially land owning elite, each ruling over their own little plantation and part of a Confederacy of necromancer citizens. That sounds like a super cool libertarian necromancer nation.Too many offspring means not enough land, or each plantation-state needs to manage it's own clan however it sees fit
Maybe disputes between plantations are about where replacement corpses come from, some use animated statues or golems instead, some are warmongers and raid lesser people in nearby lands, some buy corpses from neighboring nation's in exchange for goods and treaties. Because of the lack of population but high level of education and learning, culture in that nation is severely lacking so the necromancer elites pantomime cultures that they like, meaning that many would be essentially necromancer weeaboos for whatever exotic culture they latch ontoFuck this is such a good idea
>>54484504That sounds like a pretty interesting concept, actually. A good dynamic for a world entity, and a great possibility for political intrigue both within itself and with other nations.
>>54484452Just having living troops means you can't march forever, like an undead group can, and means you need to worry about logistics.
>>54484633If you have few enough of them, it's not a huge issue. You can support a couple of elite units with forage alone, in a pinch.Separated marching could be turned into an advantage. Yes, it involves separating your forces, but on the other hand, you can send a vanguard to the battlefield to pressure the enemy, and then have your knights well-rested when they arrive, to act as shock troops against an opponent who is already exhausted from fighting. It's something you'd want to do anyway, so in this case the disadvantage is almost completely mitigated.
>>54484633hahaha nigga just make skellies carry the soldiers hahaha
>>544764741. Horse archers to harass the enemy forever. Always attacking their supply lines, never stopping.2. A phalanx to make use of your superior numbers, slow movement and resistance to arrows and stabbing weapons.3. Zombies would be used similarly depending on how slow they move but they'd also be much better taken care of; their stink, disgusting appearance and stronger muscles would make them far superior as troops.
Skeleton archers or crossbowmen would be horrifying. They can shoot you, but you can't shoot them.
>>54484360>What if the undead can do only simple commands like "attack", "retreat", "haul those boulders there" etc? You'd need some troops to do more complex tasks.Laughingmarinecorps.jpgYou just need to make a neat list breaking the big task down into little tasks and take it step by step.
>>54484504Honestly, the way the south works and the way the US works, the owners of skeleton workers would probably make a sport of hunting the living poor, citing their low economic value in life and their people's genetic predisposition to eating dirt and not working as reasons as to why they need to be culled to enrich the rich.
>>54486102>1. Horse archers to harass the enemy forever.Probably not going to work, on account of skellies being kinda dumb, and with horses being dumb in life already, they probably are too dumb to un-life without constantly recking themselves.
>>54486468They're constructs of will. You can direct them.
>>54484044They also react slowly and can't fight well. A heavy cavalry charge straight into the (tiny) wizards camp is the best strategy against a necro horde.
>>54486602That's why any good necromancer should use a few lines of skellington pikemen.
>>54486619>skellingtonSomething that can't be trampled by a charger might be better. A shield wall made of living meat, for example.
>>54486641What if it's minotaur skellingtons?
Skeletons are highly resistant to blades, spears and arrows, IE pretty much everything they're likely to encounter assuming no gunpowder.Literally just give them knives. 5 skeletons pinning a guy down and stabbing eye slits and armpits is basically unbeatable.
>>54486506You will literally have to tell them where to put their legs in the case of undead horses.
>>54477238somewhere in a 3.5 splat for sure. arms and equipment guide i believe.
>>54486261What is the pic from? Looks rad as shit.
>>54487266I've seen that before, but it escapes me.That's not quite a dream sequence, but it doesn't actually happen.
>>54487266>>54488589It's probably from Gate: And Thus the JSFD Fought ThereIts pretty bad, despite the cool premise
>>54476474When I see necromancer thread, my dick is diamonds. Ambushes literally from a fucking ground since undead dont need air.Since skeletons should be lightweight, group them in tight formations and give them wide range of weaponry:Basic equipment would consist of shortsword and shortbow.Frontline third gets bigass shields and pikes or falchions.Backline gets bucklers and javelins, maybe crossbows.Guys in middle get halberds and pikes. I didn't mentioned armor. That's because actual armor is not cheap even if you have miners and smiths that do not rest. So, meatshield gets iron\steel supports for their bones, encapsulating or smithed right into bones. Ribcage is empty - nice slot for explosives, medieval firethrower, etc.>>54476684Muscle would have no bones inside. If you can configure it right way, it'll be obnoxious spy\sabouter, because fleshling can fit into tight spaces and bend like hell. Put bottles of poison or oil, caltrops, nice iron sting and metal claws so it could slowly climb shit. Boy will give nightmares to town guard.
>>54486102Horses should be dead too, add some slings to have no trouble with ammo, so harassment would be literally everlasting.
Just reading this thread makes me want to run a game/play in a game where it's just Necromancers.I wanna control the battlefield from a mobile tower of bone while slapping animal skeletons on myself to become The Ultimate Lifeform.
>>54490370they all on a quest to find the most powerful creatures to slay for corpses. at the end of the campaign keep the character sheets for a new campaign to take down the great lich-gods
>>54490463>"They've slain all the dragons.">"Undead dragons? My god.">"No, just the one dragon, they slapped all their bones together to make some kind of super leviathan. It's very cool."
>>54490370That kinda reminds me of Bound By Flame setting. Pretty cool, except not connected to a mediocre game.
If you added extra arms to your skeleton could you have pikemen that are also archers? Or would the structure make it not plausible?
>>54486377Yeah, everyone knows Marines are already that dumb anyways. You've got to keep the commands down to like Int 2 or less.>Beat Navy
>>54490577Better have a shield, an axe or hook for hooking enemy's weapon or shield, and two swords for stabby-stabby time.
>>54490621You can't just add a bunch of shit onto your skeletons, because at that point it would be more efficient to use that material for extra skeletons. But something like just adding an extra pair of arms would be efficient because it lets them be archers as well for just the cost of 2 arms. If you add to much stuff it will be too clustered in the ranks.
>>54490370That sounds cool as shit.
The main limit for necro-armies I've seen would be how many undead you can bind at once.Idea: bind a few dozen 'elites' and simply raise unbound zombies. Your elites set up bound hostages and corpse piles to lure the mindless horde, and you communicate with the undead elites magically so you're not at risk.When the horde descends on a city and the citizens are frantically fleeing inside the walls, one bound elite with a crossbow or acid flask can start a guerilla campaign.The key to this is that your undead don't need to be micromanaged or augmented, simply raised en-masse. You don't even need to arm them and ideally you'd simply drive-by reanimate anything they killed (after waiting a couple of days to make sure your undead had moved on).>>54481087This land is peaceful, its inhabitants kind.>>54483511>>54483669>>54483931All of these. A normal army needs logistics to function. A high-magic army will instead make use of low-level casters with access to food creation and/or repair cantrips.A construct or undead army doesn't need food or bedding, but its commanders do. There will most likely be a wagon or cart with tents, food, penis pumps and other necessities for living mages somewhere in the horde.
>>54492391>a gureilla campaign >on fleeing citizens I know what you mean but gureilla warfare is about pressure, threat level, and biding time for when an actual fighting force is built up. Gureilla warfare is purely defensive, based on fear/demoralization.>penis pumpsGo on
Honestly, the biggest problem in a necro army will be command and control. Not only will the skellingtons have no initiative, they have no basic sense. You either have to have a large officer/necromancer corp to micromanage the army. Or you have set up magical command marcos that let the army act in a predisposed way. Allowing the army to react in rather basic but necessary ways. Attacks, formation advances, targeting specific enemies, etc.Not to mention the fog of war will wreck havoc with your army for the simple reason of being very top down control style. You're going to have to have the commanders concentrate on eliminating the fog of war or risk losses by ambushes or clever tactics.
>>54488804The one I'm (>>54488589) think of was about memory diving, or mind control, or some shit. It was powered by borderline-hypnotic motivational speeches, IIRC.
Why is it whenever it comes to raising undead people always focus on corporeal undead?I would totally get my hands on some banshees, ghosts, and various spectres to harass, possess, and otherwise destroy enemy morale.
>>54493397I think typically spectral undead are easier to dispell or banish in most fiction.Salt circles, running water, sunlight etc.Zombies might not like that in some fiction, but rarely does it totally shut them down.
So what can a newbie necromancer do in d&d? Like how many undead? Can he summon ghosts yet? Etc.
Im a big fan of stitched undead (taking body parts of different things, fusing and reanimating).Or carving runes into the bones of your skeletons to enhance them.Also, dumping my takings from an older necromantic terrorism thread.
>>54494665necromatic bomb used in a public area. It kills people, then immediately reanimates their bodies as uncontrolled undead. Maybe causes the area to be haunted for lasting damage and terror.>Sneak into large stadium>Produces zombies from your bags of holding>Bury zombies>use some alteration magic to smooth over their shallow graves>When SPORTS TEAM takes to the field, zombies sense life, rise up and attack.Fire-and-forget terror cells that only stay long enough to create a single self-replicating undead(ghouls, shadows, vampires), and then leave before anyone realizes it.They should be ordered to hunt and turn people that won't be missed for at least a week or two, and only if there's no witnesses and they're sure they can get away with it.Creating permanently-controlled patient zeros is preferred but not necessary as long as you stick around long enough to make sure they can hit critical mass and overrun the village, then bail.You only need one spellcaster per cell, although a dedicated anti-scryer helps, and a few living bodyguards. If you don't keep any undead with you, it makes it easier to deny in case you get caught.>Assassin kils major dignitary.>State funeral goes through the streets>precession with a heard carrying the nobles' corpse goes past crowds>Necromancer raises the dignitary in the middle of the parade>dignitaries' corpse burst out of the hearse, starts attacking thr crowd>guard are afraid of attacking the corpse in case they're accused of sedition or treason for attacking the body of a noble>necromancer hides in the crowd running away from the scene>corpse continues laying waste to defenceless guard until someone with enough authority to okay the attacking of the noble's corpse arrives on the scene
>>54494665>>54494677>head to zoo>go to monkey cages>circle of death>use army of zomonky's to engage in guerrilla warfare>Film the rampage. Upload it to YouTube and call it Revenge of Harambe.>isolated farmstead>murder famer, his family and his cows>raise skelton famer complete with overalls and straw hat>Raise Zombie cows.>Order Skelton farmer to milk zombie cows every morning.>use clairvoyance/audience to capture the reactions of the first fleshbags to stumble on this.>Rent dockside warehouse>Hire hobos to come move crates that aren't there.>Circle of Death.>Raise zombies>Permency fog cloud, dancing lights, ghost sound>order zombies to dance. forever.If you really want to freak people out, take the ordinary and paint it in a nice gloss ABSOLUTELY HORRIFYING.
>>54494665>>54494677>>54494687It was a two-pronged attack.A virulent and deadly plague was released. Troublesome by itself, the amount of corpses made it very easy to grab, smuggle and reanimate many of them.The plague spread despair, making many people turn to necromancers for help. Their covens then gave a false impression of making the person feel healthier with a extensive glyph tattoo that one kept hidden to avoid persecution. The glyph actually performed a timed spell, "ectoplasmic explosion". The victim's soul was converted into a burst of fire. This "spontaneous combustion" also hid the glyph. It wasn't until the cities were deserted that a badly drawn glyph caused a slow burn, leaving clues for the lord's widow to find and show others.A hundred and fifty years later, here we are. A multitude of petty kingdoms and countless fiefdoms that swear alegiance to anyone with an army, juggling duties, lies and false gifts like a man with many mistresses.The undead outnumber the living in the ruins of once great cities, fortresses of covens now powerful enough to act openly. They mostly fight among themselves, dismissing the so-called "holy armies of life" that pop up now and then, mostly rabble and rusty spears.Only one thing worries the necromancers: The Black Widow, a former lady clad in a mourning dress and a plague doctor mask which lost her family to disease and necromancy. This didn't prevent her from learning the dark arts. Her Vengeance Host is been quite sucessful of late. Her undead are disciplined as a professional soldier would be, making short work of zombie hordes. She comands them directly, through a magic link woven into the carvings and tattoos of her minions. People say this requires souls to maintain, but people say anything these days. Although most agree how ironic it is that the covens now seek living mercenaries to counter the Host.Guerrilla warfare necromancy.Dropping some mass undead plague rats into city.
>>54494665>>54494677>>54494687>>54494713That's all I've got atm.
>>54476474Well in Dominions 4, this is how you do it:Casters in the back. Elite troops guarding your casters.Optional cavalry force to flank around and attack their archers/casters.Undead form an expendible blob of chaff that only exist to keep the enemy army tied down as your casters do their thing. Don't count on them to win the battle by themselves because a living soldier is better. The best undead should be in the back of the blob, and the worst in front, so the worst troops eat all the holy magic the enemy army is bound to throw at them.Low level black magic casters should just continually raise more undead to replace losses.High level casters nuke enemy army and summon powerful monsters.
>>54476474The greatest strenght of an undead army is their ability to recruit every single fallen and the dead's unwavering stamina and morale. Pike and shot is essentially useless as neither will even flinch the dead thanks to no feeling pain or needing vital organs.Its also their greatest weakness, if you start actually dealing with your corpses, a scorched earth tactic of sorts and instead of focusing on stationary walls of fuck you, instead relying to mobility and cutting the undead lines thin, then the undead got a problem.Also the fact that necromancers are literally needed for the dead to function, take them out and the whole horde goes to shit.
This thread made me have a dream that I was a necromancer. You had to point at a corpse,draw a triangle in the air with your hands, but you chose the direction you drew the triangle in and what corner to start from. Also you could hold out 1 to 3 fingers of your hand when drawing the triangle, and you could start with 1 finger outstretched, but then switch to 2 then 3 mid-triangle. These all had an effect on your reanimation
>>54482478>Even the weakest skeletons don't need to breathe, eatBut in DnD any organized army will have a few magicans casting Create Food / Water so they won't have nearly as important supply train.
>all this talk of necromancers and no mention of Hollowfausthttps://archive.4plebs.org/dl/tg/image/1472/37/1472373004801.pdfWell worth the read
>>54494677>Ghouls,shadows, vampires.See I've been thinking about it because, these are pests in undead settlements, undead eat the dead bodies, the shadows takes the soul and the vampires leaves the sacrificial victims without blood.I mean on one hand it could be an interesting idea for a adventure, deal with the rising ghoul swarms ruining the corpse crop problem.I also like it because then it means not everything is in a factions favor, their actions and practices have consequences and difficulties they have to deal with.
>>54498067>tfw your shadows are bored and keep playing tricks on your guests>tfw your skeles and zombies keep slipping and falling off of the scaffolding for your new barn>tfw your ghouls escaped from their pen for the third time this month>tfw your vampire accidentally made a spawn and now she is in hysterics about what to do
>>54492391>The "siege weapons" of Undead armies are simply large wagons with an outward extension dangling a cage ahead of it, like a paralysed catapult rolling backward.>Fill the cage with meat of living beings and guide the unbound along, carrot-on-stick style.>For added fuckery, make them actual catapults so you can lob meat/people at enemies/over walls and watch the hungry dead shuffle after it.>>54492913>Not to mention the fog of war will wreck havoc with your army for the simple reason of being very top down control style.So you're saying the officer corp is more like the airforce because observing the battle via airborne undead is the way to go?
>>54498117>The vampires keep killing off your actually valuable non-undead citizenry since they can't eat the dead>Or simply turning them into more undead as a petty, bored powerplay on their part>Shadow haunt your very few allies and reveal your plots to them, then slip into cracks that would mean you'd have to tear the whole wall down to get to them>They'll also wake you up in the middle of the night, can't fucking see them either because its pitch black and the few remaining loyal vampires want all the windows boarded up.>Ghoul infestation gets so bad that they are stealing the food of your plate, country faces food shortage.
>>54476541Fucking every time in Path of Exile...
>>54481087I can just imagine a catapult scurrying around on hundreds of skeleton arms, like a freakish undead caterpillar.
>>54481087I don't like this clear line pushing that comes with these threads, because why would every other school of magic not have the same ability to just freeform? Casting create water in your enemies or cure disease curing babies.
>>54498353how? isn't that a diablo clone?
>>54498331>all the grain was harvested by zombies instead of skeletons and is now infected and useless >part of the house collapsed into ghoul tunnels and now has to be fixed>the skeletons opened the windows during the day and incinerated your best vampire>the power vacuum is giving you a headache
>>54498538>>all the grain was harvested by zombies instead of skeletons and is now infected and uselessHey man, if mexicans can make mold infected maize into a delecacy because they're too poor to throw it away. The necromancers can cost themselves a couple years of the lifeline and hey, they work hard enough and pray enough they might get to become sentient undead.Don't complain until you tried the local rotbread.
>>54498573>Don't complain until you tried the local rotbread.I hear the cheese is better. Also interesting possibilities with brewing beer and alcohol.
>>54476474Seketon rogues for small scale fight.Just give them gear that lets them blend into the environment, some daggers with poison.Fill them with explosives. Bring able to shqdowwalk them behind enemies is a plus.Basically try to use them for hit and run tactics in small dispersed units. And even if enemy manages to get one of them they explode.Think of ninja ISIS. Rise killed enemies as more specialized skeletons. Later on as a full undead. With all skills and memories - but loyal to you.Remember as long as you kill one enemy with one skeleton you are winning.Keep two flesh abominations, and one unexploding rogue near you.By flesh abomination I mean a zombie made from multiple humanoids. Stronger, faster, and bigger than zombie. Still dumb.For large scale - battle of attrition,spells,arrows, entrenched positions and slowly pushing forward, while rising dead enemies as your army.Keep a squad of jihad skeleton beasts - something fast and elusive - their objective is to take at least 2 enemies down with explosion. Extra kills with claws or fangs are nice.You could add toxins to the explosives. They are already full or bone shrapnel. Also have an ambush unit - just let them lie in the ground, buried - just in case you need to retreat. Rise them only when enemies uses that area as either camp, supply base or they have their main unit there.Poison arrows, exploding arrows, rotting flesh, exploding rotting flesh, gas bombs are your ranged ammunition of choice.Especially rotten flesh and gas. Your units are immune to it.
>>54498609I hear the cows in necromancyland have yoghurt fresh from the teat.Probably not, just some clotty yellow liquid.It is a good subject though, if undead cause rot and blight around them a lot of foods in necromancyland would be fermented or specially treated.
>>54498609>tfw the local rotgut is in fact, quite literal
>>54498639AlsoTry to hit supply lines.Walk under water to ambush enemies.Use fire to deny area - your skellies can walk through it.Don't fear arrows, fear catapults. Balistas and maces.Use ISIS ninja skeletons to poison wells, food.Burn fields - you don't need them, scorched earth is your friend.
>>54498639The problem with explosives is that you're ruining your bodies, there's a limit to what you can effectively raise from the dead.
>>54498353When you play as the Witch you can get a posse of zombies that follow you everywhere, then there's an NPC you can find who will challenge you to a duel, and then that comic happens.
>>54498681True, but you should use them separately. If you take down and enemy you win. Plus this discourages enemies from using maces to just smash the skellies.
>>54498682>>54498488>TFW accidentally responded to myself instead of anon.
>>54498682What NPC is this?
>>54498754Vagan, I just drown him in zombies and skeletons until he shuts up.>http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Vagan,_Weaponmaster
>>54498691Well its a solid plan but pretty useless if you can just summon Atrophus to your plane.I mean whats a more powerful undead than the undead god?Just threaten everyone you'll summon it if they so much fuck with you, creating a primitive nuke.
>>54498781Unless multiple kingdoms make threats of invoking their gods in response, then you end up with theological cold war.
>>54498902Last time I checked, few gods can or are willing to fuck with athropus. Its is kinda an apocalypse scenario when the hungry corpse of the primal god comes around. Especially since all it needs is a beacon, unlike the other gods who got more than one plane to toy with and are bothered by the politics of the gods.But yeah that's the point, don't fuck with me or I'll take us all down is the motto here.
How can a mage who is able to fly and use short distance teleport on humans make the best use of other caster's undead?
>>54498999>Float above horde of zombies>Lead horde like floating carrot on stick>Find human enemy>Teleport enemy into middle of horde as he tries to run>Profit
>>54476878ww1+necromancers and zombies
>>54476474> Take Horde> Give Bows and Arrows> Fire> ?> Fucking win because hails of arrows for ever.----> OR> Give Bonemans swords and shields> CHARGE> ?> Win----> Lastly> Make spookmans (Ghosts, shadows and the like)> Spooky enemy to death> ? > WIN FOREVER SPOOK
>>54499255>"I want to get off Mr. Bone's Wild Ride."
>>54498974I mean if you are a sentient undead(baring undead that require humans to live) atropous coming is just good for you.I mean if you like solitude, or have an undead court
>>54499467Oh sure, good for the first five weeks.Then the demons come to take all your skeletons from you with their sickass demon powers, no longer kept at bay by the forces of good.That and its not good to be just alone on a void plannet, having no pleasures or release.
>>54499541If you are cool enough to summon an elder evil, you can deal with demons.Plus you live forever just get a connection to magic enough that you become a god.Or make a bunch of spells, or just summon succubuses for a party
>>54499626>or just summon succubuses for a partyAnd here comes the great plight of the undead, no boner and no stomach for booze or food.All you can do is summon her to listen to you... or eat all the eggs.
First, send in a wave or two of skeletons, ideally something that your enemy will easily defeat and become overconfident, scattering bones everywhere. Then hit 'em with the BONESTORM
>>54499679Veil of life level 3 > is spell gives a seeming of life to a corporeal undead creature, making it look like a living member of the race it was before death and undeath. The target regrows flesh, blood, and organs, gaining the ability eat, drink, breathe, and perform all other bodily functions. A transmuted undead creature can reassume its undead form at will as a move action. This spell does not confer sentience, and merely animated undead are quickly revealed under scrutiny.Book of templates: deluxe editionThey also have an official item that does this but I have yet to find it
>>54499792I mean, it says it itself, its not really doing any of that. its just simulating it, needing sentience and acting.I mean why'd you even try to fool a succubus that you can fuck? They don't care, they fuck nastier things and they barely have the ability to know why.
>>54490370That actually inspired me to make a rough sketch of a setting where the sun is dim, the land is dying, and the main city-states are those of powerful necromancers. They maintain their power by controlling ancient artifacts, embedded in their towers of living flesh and bone that allow them to control 100x more undead than usual. The towers are "alive" in a sense, and are embedded in the land beneath, protruding small appendages that allow them to slowly move like turtles carrying the world on their backs. Each previous owner of the sphere added more corpses and more land to their tower, resulting in sprawling metropolises, roaming the wilderness in search for slaves, resources, or whatever else their decadent undead elite desires. Even though the spheres can make an average necromancer one of the most powerful beings in the world, they still can't make him appear in many places at once. This is how the undead nobility came into being. The Lord of the Tower controls only his personal army, bodyguards, and servants, while also controlling undead lieutenants that have necromantic powers. They in turn control reanimators, commanders of skeletal legions etc. Reanimators and undead commanders control mindless undead and are responsible for all the menial task in the city-states. Naturally, the "life" in the city-states is full of intrigue and machinations. Nobles are constantly plotting and fighting for more power and control, and the most magically-inclined living children of citizens (or slaves) become a valuable commodity in their unending struggle for supremacy. Not to mention constant skirmishes with other Towers or slave and resource raids into the wilderness, as the city-states can't support the demand for necromancers with their own living population.
>>54499756>"Welcome to the Bone Zone."
>>54499848You regain your organs.You know the things you need to have fun with a succubus
>I'm gonna make a Bone Golem!>Cool>WITH MY OWN BONES >LORD MARAXIS NO, STO-
>>54499848>>54499910You aren't trying to fool anyone, it's purpose in the book is to allow a half undead kids
>>54476474Pre-game? bolt some crap to them to give them padding, flesh them out enough to -look- like they have meat and muscle underneath, but limit how much they lose mobility as much as possible. Wrap it up and put some armor, cloaks, etc on them so they don't look dead, give them helmets that cover their faces. This means even if my opponent knows they're undead they might mistake them for zombies and not consider their resistance to certain weaponry. Make sure they have some reasonable chain armor for defense and outfit them with shields. If they're smart enough to swap weapons out we'll give them a mix of weapons, if not we'll give them something handy like a one-handed poleaxe; basically giving them the choppy end, smashy end and stabby end of a halberd but on a shorter handle.If possible, keep a jar of some kind of toxic spores or gas in their ribcage, so when they get hurt it poisons nearby enemies. I'll need some kind of mask and alchemical antidote handy, fortunately if I build it into a big animal skull or something I can hide my plan by just looking the part of Spooky Skeleton Man.Once the fight goes down you just let them be your defensive line while you focus on AOE bombing the field and picking off ranged targets.
>>54499928>not creating a giant motherfucking bone golem and using it as a mech
>>54499942No no no you guys are doing this wrong, cover them in a surface poison, then have them grapple people.Poison= intact corpses, and you can use a creation spell to make it.Just get big and dumb corpses like minotaurs and go ham, saving the good looking people you kill for vampirism
>>54476474Chemical warfare. Arm one with a nozzle on the end of a hose, the rest operating some cart-mounted bellows, spraying something nasty like quicklime.Not used outside of sieges in conventional medieval warfare due to the extremely limited range causing a high risk of caustic substances blowing back and blinding your own troops. Not a problem for skellies.
>>54476474How about Dominating a hard hitting enemy, who kills a party member (considering the necromanceris the enemyor you are playing against humanoids) and raising it as a Juju-zombie afterwards? to kill the rest.
>>54500069Handy, but less useful in a fantasy (or at least a d&d style fantasy) context because of the availability of spells like Vitriolic Sphere and magical ways to counteract these chemicals. It's still useful, just not quite the same morale-shattering horror it would be IRL.
So as always with these threads we need a standard setting, if its dnd and we still wanna go with traditional warfare, then wizards and other magicians are pretty rare.
>>54499942But then as soon as they understand the rouse they will no doubt order a retreat. It's a trick that only works once.
>>54503541>Frontline wizard throws fireball>Whole necronation is now a smoking crater.
>>54476850>>54476891This is such a dumb fucking exchange. All skeletons in my games now have a full functioning system of organs INSIDE OF THEM (their bones that is)
>>54503681>He doesn't have anti-wizard assassins
>>54505546>he doesn't have anti-anti-wizard assassins
>>54476474In one of my campaigns, I set up a sort of skeletal caravan from nearby necromancer activity.Skeletal Elephant with magical stitched hides around its ribcage, which was extended for the purposes of being able to house and transport skeletons. So more like a literal cage with the back just a hide flap for skeletons to pop out of.Put some skeletons riding on top, too.As for individual tactics? Skeletons with bows with magical skellies casting Flame Arrow on the skelbowmen, and a Bard Skeleton smacking on a xylobone or boning on a drumset for buffing the caravan. Had some skeletal constructs in there too for other forms of support, as well as the usual skeletons with shields and swords and maces and shit.What better way to patrol with/transport skeletons than inside of something else?
>>54507698This is a really cool and unique use of necromancy. One of the problems with roaming hordes is their exposure to AoE mages. I large concentration of mages could deal heavy damage to the horde if they work together. Having the elephant transports is useful because the elephants can have anti magick wards to protect the troops. In order to really beat the tough and resistant hides of the elephants, high level mages will he needed to crush the caravans. The elephants can speed up and drop soldiers of quickly, instead of having to force the horde to plod into direct attacks from artillery/magick. The skelephants can either retreat into the back row and switch to a type of artillery mode where support skeletons load up the cannon. The cannon can fire >more soldiers to disrupt the enemy from within>actual cannon fire>sludge to cause disease and blindness and other debilitationsEtc.
>>54508608I typically load up the skeletal constructs with the ability to cast a single type of spell, or expel some other form of bullshittery like enchanted bolts from their mouths. I suppose a skeletal construct that's stuck on top of the skelelephant can act as a mounted armament if it has some sort of magical item or spell-like ability to, say, barf melf's acid arrows all day.
>>54508608Additionally, I feel like at the end of the day, Skeletons are nothing more than bones stuck together to achieve something - why not fuck with that and1: Make skeletons out of other things, like baboons that can drop from trees or boars that can burst ouf of small tunnels2: Assemble the bones in a way that they can be used as practically necromantic machinery, like transports, magic armaments and portable quivers?...That last one might not be bad, either. A barrel made of bones with bony legs running around the battlefield distributing arrows and javelins to ranged units, or storing spare weaponry.
I got just three words for y'all:UNDEAD SUICIDE BOMBERSThat's all, folks!
>>54476474>what battlefield tactics would be needed as a necromancerThe short answer? None.Or rather, you didn't need to do any thing special in order to win.The exact nuances of tactics don't matter as much in this situation as they would otherwise. There is one and only one fundamental difference between an army of living men and an army of the undead: Their troops stay dead.Yours, for the most part, don't. Given that fact, as long as you can turn any war into a war of attrition, you will win eventually. In every battle where the enemy achieves anything less than a decisive victory, their forces will shrink, and yours will grow. Even if your tactics return only middling success in battle to battle, your victory in the grand scheme will still be inevitable.
Do you think I, the most powerful necromancer on this board, will let you die? Pathetic.Necromancer Tactics sounds like a name of an edgy turn-based strategy.
>>54498639How sneaky can a load of blatantly dead people be?
>>54510584>their forces will shrink, and yours will growOnly if you can raise them. Depends on the range and time the ritual takes.If it requires close proximity and time, you'd better win hard enough to hold the field or else you'll get squashed by an enemy counterattack while raising.If you leave the field and return at night, you've got a good chance of getting assassinated.If you can do it from miles around, why even fight? Just spread plague and turn the entire country into zombies.>There is one and only one fundamental difference between an army of living men and an army of the undead: Their troops stay dead.Most of your troops are really shit. That's something.
>>54494677>Necromancer raises the dignitary in the middle of the paradesystems with necromancy usually have some way to prevent necromancy being used on a particular corpse, and it's usually tied to 'holy' magic.for example, pathfinder has the sanctify corpse spell, which is a level 1 cleric spell that protects a corpse from necromancy attempts for 24 hours. it can be made permanent but it requires a 9th level caster and 500gp.in any world where necromancy is any kind of a threat, it's likely you'd have clerics protecting the dead - especially if the dead are going to be presented to the public in any way.
>>54499792Oh fuck I remember this in one of my campaigns>Played a skeletonized lich that forgot what he looked like and wanted to find a spell that would let him look like how he did during what he felt was the prime of his human life.>Was with a neutral aligned party of heroes for hire, spent a lot of time talking with them.>Acted like a typical meme skeleton with bone puns and general undead (but mostly harmless) shenanigans (it was actually his way of coping with the existential horror of unlife but whatever).>Finally, finally get the know-how to do the spell.>Cast it, everyone's expecting a Groucho Marx looking motherfucker.>Mfw he was revealed to have been an incredibly attractive trap the entire time >Mfw I didn't change his behavior whatsoever>Mfw some new players that joined after had no fucking idea why this fuckboy kept making bone punsTo be fair I was forshadowing it for like, the whole campaign. I described him as having a delicate bone structure and his movements were distinctly fruity, but people just assumed that was part of the joke. Springing the reveal on them was a riot. The GM was in on it too.
>>54498008this was cool
>>54483672Spoopy skeletons can't marsh 24/7. They might at best be able to marsh 24/3. After that they start falling apart because of the "not a living organism moving" aspect of them, meaning that they actually take a larger beating from an extended marsh than a living being, since the living being has a body that can repair microfractures and other signs of wear.In fact, an undead army is probably highly immobile. It can mobilize quickly, but it's strength is just one big burst of energy before the whole thing starts falling apart from the wear of an extended campaign.Because of this your necromancer probably spends a lot of time building and storing the army (since an army of skellies will preserve well as long as they are just standing in attention), since this allows them to overwhelm by sheer numbers. This results in another problem though. Exactly how are you supposed to arm the fuckers? They might be standing around for dozens of years before they are used, and metal rusts and bowstrings stretch. So, likely you want simple clublike weapons that are easy to manufacture and which do not need regular maintenance.
What about deathknights? necromancers make a deal with a person, if they fail, they become their undead servant, which is more powerful than a mere skeleton, it also serves to reduce the power creep
>>54476474If you don't cast a spell that allows you take control of any skeleton in your vicinity, and then have said skeletons claw their way free from their fleshy prisons while shrieking with glee to be rid of all that extra weight, you're just doing it wrong.
>>54516624How about skeleton truckers?
>>54516624>After that they start falling apart because of the "not a living organism moving" aspect of them, meaning that they actually take a larger beating from an extended marsh than a living being, since the living being has a body that can repair microfractures and other signs of wear.That's a nice bedtime story you're telling yourself there, anon. I, however, remain incredulous at the prospect of a magic existing that is capable of holding a skeleton together and allowing it to move and perceive the world around it sans muscles, ligaments or any kind of sensory organs, yet be unable to keep wear and tear at bay.
>>54514823Perphaps. But sometimes it's a case of hindsight is 20/20. If Necromantic armies are a threat, then it may make sense for cremation to be mandated by law, but if no one's ever faced an undead horde before...Obviously, the Necromancer and his undead horde are nothing new to the genre, but the world in question may or may not have experience with that sort of thing.
>>54517803You probably would want some method of delivering your undead in "peak" condition. Skeleton horses dragging around zombie carts could be one such way.>>54517850I actually find that a bit unlikely for simple zombies and skeletons (advanced undead like liches and vampires are usually portrayed as being able to self-heal though). If you got that sort of power available, why bother with the skeleton? Just make a chair or something fight for you.
>>54477999Do you blow or bully the DM to get him to allow you that much slack with your skellies?
>>54486793Skeletons have the same proficiencies they had in Life. A skelleape would be able to pick up a big stick and hit things with it, a skellihorse would have no problems with movement. You'll need a way to fasten the saddle/rider on it though.
>>54476705I mean technically a skeleton shouldn't be able to move without muscles and what not. I think if we can magic away skeletal dependency on flesh then we can do the same in reverse.
>>54476684Thats called an octopus
>>54525667>>54476684An undead that acts like a 4-armed octopus.