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>>51972949
>>The shitposters a few threads back were kinda right, this is really, really, human-centric, particularly around the people at the top.
I keep saying that this is kinda inevitable, because one of the two defining themes we're building on is innately tied with the holders of power and official station.

>>51973748
OP said he just repasted the opening from the last thread, before Xeno Week

>>51972949
Editfag is in Europe. Right now it's the middle of the night where he is. He tends to respond early in the day relative to Amerifags. He usually hangs around the thread without his name on, like several of the writefags. So I would wait about a day before wondering if he's dead.

[Spoiler]I hope he's still here, his OPs are hilarious[/spoiler]

>>51972949
Unresolved question from the last thread:
Armageddon, Attack Planet as per vanilla y/n?

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>>51972949
What are psykers like in this setting? Do they look and behave the same as in canon?

>>51974835
Yes, there's no underlying change to the warp or how it works relative to vanilla 40k. However, psykers are more common and more accepted (generally) in the Imperium, and most of them are Sanctioned since the Astronomicon's soul-binding isn't fatal. I think.

>>51974786
Just my personal thoughts, but I would say that planet orks slapped engines/teleporters on is better than an entirely constructed world. In canon Armageddon was supposed to be a crazy feat of engineering even for the Orks, and something unlikely to be done again.

I do like the idea that Armageddon and Ullanor are related somehow even if its not like in canon. It gives another reason for why the Orks are so obsessed with it beyond back door to Old Earth.

If Armageddon is NOT an attack planet, it should be mentioned we have to do something with Ullanor.

>>51974835
In terms of their connection to the warp and the constant risk of uncontrolled psykers leading to a case of DAEMONS! EVERY ORIFICE! Then yes.

However psykers are not as hated as in canon. Feared yes, for the above reasons, but there's ways for psykers to exist without being barely tolerated.

The nature of Sanguinius, Magnus, Emperor, and I think Malcador as psykers is also common knowledge, rather than cognitive dissonance. Indeed, most people tend to think of big E as just being a super-psyker as opposed to a Man of Gold (which while not a secret, is not readily shared knowledge either).

There's quite a bit about them on the Notes page on 1d4chan.

>>51974993
>planet orks slapped engines/teleporters on
My thoughts exactly.

>>51972949
Still alive, don't worry - I've just finished up something on the main (non-drafty) page for the first time in about 6 fucking months.

fwiw, the way the column headings fit so well with the Alpharius/Omegon quotes was pure chance, so I decided to run with it and make it a format screw instead.

>>51973923
T-thanks, senpai

>>51975453
Looks nice

>>51975453
>>51976140 (samefag)

Would Dorn's "mud marble" speech go good for the quotes? Encapsulates his "old soldier always feeling under siege" personality perfectly.

>>51976178
Mud marble? No idea what that is - and, come to think of it, there's probably been a lot of writefaggotry for each primarch that I haven't seen. All I've based the table off so far is just the original fluff pieces that I ended up giving up on polishing - there's probably a lot more to go fill in.

>>51976347
Repostan from the archives

>"Of course we are at war. Why on Old Earth's green soil would you believe we are not at war. We in what is essentially a siege position, with an unfortifiable border stretching an entire 360 degrees for several light years in every conceivable direction. Our enemy has no concept of "rest" or "armistice" and can pop up at any time, on any side, in any position within the massive amounts of space between the mud marbles that we call the worlds of the Imperium. The Imperium is always going to be at war. Why would you ever believe otherwise?"
>- Rogal Dorn, showing his usual level of tact

>>51976517
>several light years
Dorn also showing his knack for understatement apparently

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“Heh. Ha. Haha.”

“What is so funny?”

“You know, back on Old Earth, we used to have this story. Way back before the Unification Wars, Age of Strife, all that nonsense. Back when mankind was just a bunch of monkeys realizing that it was better to bang bronze together than rocks.”

“You will remain silent, throne-worshipper, until I have need of your services. The Dark Gods will be pleased at whatever information I can wrest from you.”

“I’m giving you information, cultist. Anyway, so this story. Guy called Hercules. Went on some epic quest to slay some of the biggest monsters in the land. Don’t remember all of them, it’s an old story and the details have changed so much over the years. But the one part of the story I remember, the one part everyone in my legion knows about, is the one about the Lernean Hydra.”

“This information is unimportant.”

“Hold on, bird man, I’m getting to the important part. So the hydra’s supposed to be a serpent with a bunch of extra heads. Hercules goes into this swamp, and before you know it he find the heads of the hydra coming up from beneath his feet. He swings his sword around and the heads drop. They say he had a power sword that went snicker-snack, but I’m pretty sure that’s a later addition. But that didn’t stop the hydra. Right before Hercules’ eyes, the hydra grew back it’s heads with interest. Cut one off and two more shall take its place.”

“Just like Chaos. Which is why the Imperium will fall.”

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>>51976874

“You don’t get it do you. You’re not the hydra in this scenario. You’re Hercules. Big, bad demigod so hopped up on god juice you think you can’t fall. That’s the funny thing, isn’t it? You chaos chumps are so used to being the serpents growing up from beneath people’s toes. You don’t deal so well when someone else does it to you. You’re so used to your brain-uranium doing your job for you that you got lazy. What are you going to do when your foes grow back every time you cut them down?”

“Impertinent fool. Blasphemer. Who do you think you are?”

“Who am I? I am Alpharius. My brothers are Alpharius. Every single man, woman, and child who stands in your way that you murder in the name of your perverse gods is Alpharius. The Imperium is not just an institution. It is an idea. A belief in and of itself. And you cannot kill an idea unless you stamp it from the head of every last person who holds it dear.”

“An acceptable proposition.”

“Well then you better get busy, bird-man. Galaxy’s a big place."

So Ganymede.

What weird stuff could be stored there?

>>51974993
>>51974786
I'm still fond of it being a plantoid that became Armageddon's moon that was mobilized. An entire planet getting that close to Earth would have fucked everything up due to gravity alone.

But that might be just me.

Bump.

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>>51978098
In the Beast Arises series the gravity shockwaves are apparently supposed to be a feature, not a bug.

I would be inclined to agree, the only issue is that if Ullanor was small enough to be Armageddon's moon (say Luna sized) the Ullanor Crusade would consist of Orks and Space Marines bunny hopping across the planet.

>>51976517
Not him, but is there anything more succinct? I think editfag trimmed some of the original quotes for the table, but still

>>51981858
Only other thing that comes close is his dying words, bitching at the man who pulled his wounded, dying body off the battlements to go back and hold the line because Dorn certainly won't be able to.

Would it be too much to suggest that the pleasant backwater Oscar and Isha retired to was Tyran?

>>51983072
Probably, yeah. I'm sure the Imperium has worlds which are both much more pleasant and much more backwater.

>>51983072
There was a suggestion that the planet Oscar and Isha vacationed on was called "Littoropoli" (literally Beach Planet), but I'm not sure if that was a joke.

Tyran is an Ocean World, so it has beaches, but it was described as the beaches not being good enough for Tyran to be a good tourist location.

But as for location, yeah, Tyran is about as far away as you can get in the Imperium. Tyran is on the ass end of Ultramar, which in turn is on the ass end of the Imperium. Past Tyran is nothing but alien space, and not even much of that because then you hit the galactic rim.

>>51983072
>>51983270
>>51983685
There's also the fact to consider that Kryptman goes 2000% AHAB in this AU because Tyran was his homeworld and he was one of the few survivors from (which means, after all the rejuvenant, he has the rather ironic moniker of the Last Tyranid). If Oscar and Isha had any sort of link to the place at all, it'd colour their reactions to and treatment of Kryptman rather differently.

>>51984341
It was mentioned that even though the Inquisition excommunicated him over the Octarius thing, they still kept him around to act as an advisor. It sounds like he's not completely banished, but his authority severely curbed so he can slap the Exterminatus button anymore.

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>>51984341
>Be me, Emperor of Mankind
>Doing a pretty swell job
>Still don't think I'm the right guy for this tho
>Gonna meet my foremost expert on Tyranids personally to see if he has any new advice or strategies since the last gambit, hopefully that aren't as fucking horrendous
>Step onto his ship, corners of my vision turn blurry and red tinted
>Can literally taste the hatred in air already
>Fuckmylife.pict
>As I get closer, it gets worse
>Am suddenly thankful that Isha decided to stay on the ship
>Legitimately think this dude's ambient hate could induce PMS
>Finally reach this dude's quarters, can faintly taste blood in the back of my throat
>Open the door and freeze
>Attempt to process what I'm seeing
>The wall is covered in the heads of every single type of tyranid that I have ever heard about, along with several that I haven't
>Kryptman is standing on a Swarmlord skin rug, wearing a Lictor skin jacket, in Gaunt skin boots
>Almost every piece of funiture is made of Tryanid
>Even the silverware
>What the fuck
>Notice the windows of his room look into an operating room
>Feel fear for the first time millennia
>Kryptman's face when

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>>51985435
>Even the silverware

>>51985520
The food is also tyranid.

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>>51984341
I imagine Boaz Kryptman would call himself the last Tyranite just to make the distinction. It's not like there's anyone left to dispute it.

It's also worth noting that aggravating as he is he will not be a problem for much longer. He is at the edge of the longevity treatments and his health is so poor that he wouldn't survive another trip through the freezer.

These are his dying days, his ambition, his goal and the thing that drags his weary bones out of bed every morning is the aching, gnawing need to make them pay for what they took from him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpCA_2TxKE

>>51985653
>not posting the best and most appropriate part of that speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jln3mi0vfJU

That being said, I feel like the many lives and deaths of Boaz Kryptman would make for some excellent writefaggotry and is, overall, fantastically nobledark.

>>51985764
On it.

Speaking of which, Kryptman has been hopping through time for several millenia, only woken up when the Imperium needs him. So has Commander Shadowsun. I wonder Kryptman knows Shadowsun. Or, given Kryptman's monomaniacal obsession with the tyranids, if Shadowsun knows him.

Nemesor Zandrekh is possibly one of the best allies the Imperium has in the galactic south against the Tyranids. They tried to eat his estate (the not entirely shit planet with the Tau on it) and was pretty damned grateful Hunt Master Jubal Khan and his fighting men turned up when they did.

Since that day he has taken great delight in Big Game hunting. Zandrekh has quite a small army compared to other of his kind of his station but he just loves taking synapses creature heads. If it's a Hive Tyrant or bigger he will get a new trophy. He has the skulls of big-time adorning parts of the Palace Gardens.

He wears a Preatorian pith helmet on such excursions. Nobody is quite sure where he got that from.

>>51986646
Huh, this seems to be heading somewhere interesting. Why was Shadowsun getting frozen again? Does she have her own whale to chase, or is she just wheeled out of cold storage whenever there's something that needs fucking real hard?

Seconding the desire for Kryptman tales - and did we ever decide what happened to O'Kais?

>>51987989
Shadowsun is freezing herself Halo style ("wake me...when you need me") to stomp her ex-friend/former source of sexual tension Farsight's head in when he shows his face again, since she doesn't have access to the Dawn Blade. It's possible Aun'va may be helping her without her knowledge with whatever is prolonging his life while he pulls the identical grandson routine.

Given what happened to Farsight, in this timeline Shadowsun is the greatest hero the Tau ever had who isn't a traitor. She's the one who gets brought up as the closest thing the Tau have to a primarch or a Phoenix Lord.

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>>51988251
Crap, forgot to add. I think she is getting woken up when shit gets real (i.e., tyranids), it's more she wanted to be frozen as soon as she was sure Tau society was stable because it was clear Farsight was holed up good and wasn't going to come out anytime soon.

No clue what happened to O'Kais. I remember there was some suggestion he was an Imperiaboo, if only for the hilarity and awkwardness of it and the way the Tau are in this timeline (the Tau kind of acting like Meiji "oh shit we gotta catch up" Japan, though the technology difference is much less vast).

>>51986699
Sounds good, the only thing is Gidrim is in the Ultima Segmentum. Surprisingly enough it's right next to the Sautekh dynasty, which is Imotekh's domain. In vanilla Gidrim swore fealty to Sautekh and got absorbed, whereas in this timeline it's decidedly not due to Imotekh being real close to the Silent King.

How is the protagonist of the game Fire Warrior viewed?

>>51990001
That's Shas'O Kais. See >>51987989 and >>51988251. There was some mention of him in a really early thread as well.

>>51990038
Pretty sure O'Kais is the commander from Dawn of War.

>>51990586
Yeah, they're supposed to be the same person, according to developer commentary from Dawn of War.

>>51990665
Huh, had no idea since I never played the Fire Warrior game. I just looked it up, and no wonder it's considered non-canon, a Fire Warrior solos hordes of Chaos Space Marines and a fucking Lord of Change.

>>51991120
Doom'Saal'Kais and general Kais could be a different people. Kais is a common Tau name.

>>51991585
The people who made Dawn of War literally intended him to be the same person, having been promoted for the bullshit in Fire Warrior. If we want, we can just say the Fire Warrior stuff never happened in this timeline (even more than vanilla)

>Tau Empire

I think the real question we need to be asking about the Tau Empire is how much are the Tau willing or allowed to innovate since joining the Imperium. On the one hand, it’s clear that the Tau would stop messing around with advanced artificial intelligence after the A.I. rebellion (which, given what happened to the Iron Minds, I assume is Chaos sabotage related because Chaos knows the Imperium can’t know it can have nice things) On the other hand, it seems unlikely that the Tau would completely abandon one of the few areas in which they have an advantage over other races (i.e., drones). Maybe they just abandoned research into cognizant A.I. and just stick to simple task-oriented A.I.

Drones were mentioned in one piece of writing, but I don’t know if that was before anything was decided about the Tau’s technology. One of the previous threads suggested that, like during the rebellion of the Men of Iron, a few of the more archaic Tau A.I. with bullshit-absorbing crumplezones sided with the Tau during the rebellion, though unlike the Men of Iron there are still some around in M41 acting as advisors (and only advisors) to the Ethereals. The Mechanicus could insist that the Tau get rid of ALL A.I., but the Tau could just point to the Legio Cybernetica for AdMech hypocrisy.

Additionally, I don’t think the Tau would appreciate being completely dependent on an outside group like the AdMech for all their technology, especially since it would put half the Earth Caste out of a job. And if they absolutely had to they would just go talk to someone reasonable like the squats or the Demiurg rather than deal with the AdMech.

>>51991630
Or we can say it did more than Vanilla but that Doom'Saal'Kais was part of an Inquisition team.

>>51991647 (cont.)
On a related note, since we’re trying to tone down the grimderp while retaining the OHGODWHATness of the setting, how about the overall motif for Imperial void travel is less galley slaves and more “age of wooden ships and iron men” (not literally, mind you). Like on a ship in the Age of Sail, life on a void ship is arduous, and you have to be constantly alert (on a sailing ship to make sure the ropes are all taut and the sails in the right position, on a void ship to constantly make sure the engines are working right).

From what I can tell, Imperial Ships in realspace run on Plasma Drives, which wouldn’t even require constant labor to stoke the furnaces as some sources suggest. Not to mention that many of the functions on a voidship described in canon could be greatly simplified by something as simple as pulleys and inclined planes, assuming those aren’t tech heresy.

Not to mention that in this timeline the Imperium decides to talk to the other survivor civilizations rather than subjugate them. The minute they encounter the Interex, or Ultramar, or Inwit, or the squats, or any other interstellar power, they’re going to realize there’s a more efficient way to run their ships.

Mechanicus are less asinine and let a little more of the basic technology out (e.g., autoloaders), at least in part because they have competition with the other semi-autonomous member states and they have to make an effort to not look like complete assholes. However, autoloaders can break and the crew are all trained to readily load munitions in by hand or pulley if they have to.

Overall, it gives the impression of a lifestyle that’s hard but the people who live it take as a point of pride over those who don’t. Wooden ships and iron men is very nobledark because by definition it pits the wills and creations of men against the cold, uncaring forces of nature.

>>51991647
I believe the Tau got more-or-less the same deal as other interstellar civilizations incorporated into the Imperium: internal autonomy, within certain limits. So they probably still have drones, and certainly have an industrial base independent of the Mechanicus.

>>51992089
I think that sounds about right. Seems like the Imperium in this AU is very much focused on best practices, and essentially cherry picking what works best from all its member races. The characterization of starships sounds good too, since its a gritty job away from civilization much of the time and at the mercy of the "elements" so to speak, where a rogue storm could wreck your shit at any time if you're not careful.

>>51992582
That's the general idea. Considering how the Tau Empire was just on the arse end of an arse kicking the terms were quite generous.

This thread won't die on my watch.

>>51992598
Imperium doesn't cherry pick so much as it doesn't fix what isn't broken. General rule is that the Imperium doesn't care about anything very much.

>>51991647
When did the Tau have an AI rebellion? I thought the biggest shit they had to face was the civil war, and that after the progressive half joined the Imperium that they were still pouring research into drone AI, in spite of pic related. Draws out the "well-meaning, competent but naive" angle more, and shows that they still have at least a little internal independence from the Imperium/AdMech as a whole (which I think was how it was originally described - don't quote me on that). No idea where the DAoT shit and Men of Iron come into it, though, given that the Tau are such a young race.

>>51998291
Yeah, it actually seems to be part of the reason this Imperium is doing so well compared to its canon counterpart. Vanilla Imperium tries to get involved in so many planets' business and picks so many fights it causes problems. But because the Inperium is much less draconian and works on the general Klaus Wulfenbach principle of "don't make me come over there" it has more military force to throw around and planets aren't trying to secede left and right.

Same with the xenos. In canon, half the reason the Tau are are strong as they are (for what little strength they have) is the Imperium's draconian policy has driven so many minor xenos races (Tarrellans, for one) into the Tau's arms. But since here the Imperium's default policy is "we don't care unless you start shooting", they have far fewer enemies to fight. There's still a lot of xenocide due to predatory races that just can't be negotiated with like the psybrids, Laer, Nephilim, etc., and neutral does not mean friends, but it means a lot fewer enemies.

Ironically this is probably one of the more effective kinds of government for this type of galactic scale. The galaxy is so big it's hard to run an empire united by more than a few basic tenants. The more you try to enforce uniformity over such large scales, the more systems slip through your grasp.

>>51998359
Men of Iron had nothing to do with the Tau A.I. rebellion. They, bar one example, were long extinct.

The Tau Skynet happened a few months before they started officially going through the motions of joining the Imperium.

It was sudden and horrible and it gutted them. And given how many vultures and sharks were circling them at time it was either join or die time.

Saw this in the filename thread, thought it was a perfect example of I imagine the better moments of the mechanicus in this AU. For some reason I also keep imagining them as the clergy characters in Canterbury Tales, and if I somehow had all the time in the world I think Imperial Chaucerian fables would be really great for this setting.

>>51998359
The A.I. rebellion as one of the first thing that was thought of for the Tau, way back in one of the first threads of the project. It's on the timeline. Tau galactic history kind of went like this...

Mid M38 - Imperium encounters Tau for the first time. Tau have already absorbed a few minor races like the Kroot, Poctroon, and Vespid. Imperium asks if they want to join, Tau say no, thinks Imperium is full of shit about its scale. Imperium shrugs and says okay. Imperium still tries to keep close contact with the Tau and give the new guys pointers (for a variety of reasons)
Late M38 - Tau have a serious A.I. rebellion despite repeated warnings from the Imperium. Beat back at great cost only to get the shit raided out of them by the Dark Eldar.
M38-M39 Tau recover and expand their empire even further than canon
M39 - The timeline says a little different, but I think we changed a bit of this based on discussion. Regardleess, these two events happen.

(1) Big tyranid splinter fleet hits Tau space. Imperium has to bail the Tau's ass out of the alligator pit. Pyrrhic victories prior to that on Tau's part.

(2) Ethereals start to warm up to idea of joining Imperium, seeing similarities between Greater Good and Imperial philosophy (though they still consider themselves more enlightened). Farsight thinks the Greater Good has been compromised too much by outside influences and demands a return to the old ways. Tau civil war erupts, Farsight and friends carve out their own Enclave, progressive Tau (the majority) join the Imperium.

We had (2) going before (1), but it makes more sense for (1) to go before (2), at least in part. If Tau Civil War happened at same time or before tyranids they would be bug food.

Dark Eldar raid the shit out of them both times. Leaves Tau with a ridiculous amount of hate for Dark Eldar (though this only extends to Dark Eldar, they can tell the difference and almost everyone hates DEldar by this point).

>>51998359
>>51998816
The Men of Iron were suggested to have a few archaic members who didn't go crazy from all the Chaos and fought on behalf of humanity. Think a reverse from the geth in Mass Effect. Whereas in Mass Effect there were some quarians who fought to protect the geth, here there were some robots who fought to protect the humans. However, given that 10,000 years had passed between the Men of Iron and the end of the Age of Strife, any friendly Man of Iron beyond the Data Ghost is long dead and they're at best reduced to a footnote in history.

The suggestion a few threads ago was the Tau had the same thing. A handful of self-aware but archaic (maybe <12) A.I. stood by the Tau in the rebellion, and after the rebellion became important advisors for the Ethereal council. But only advisors, with no power of their own. The Tau had learned what A.I. could do with direct power.

>>51992089
>“age of wooden ships and iron men” (not literally, mind you)
This reminds me of something I saw mentioned as a more general bit of fan theory, that post DAoT Humanity is actually genetically rebuilt and greatly improved on as a product of their golden age. This would be why Cadians are able to live in the glow of a portal to hell, Catachans can eat things that grow on their deathworld, and why Voidborn are so much better at three dimensional spatial awareness. This was introduced to me along side calling the whole of 'normal' humanity Men of Stone. It seems pretty natural to assume that generations of space colonization with the technology level we're setting up for our less obscure DAoT would leave behind some heritable improvements, and the general acceleration of adaptation is a good explanation for beastmen and abhumans as well. We include Squats in the DAoT human-derived survivor civilizations umbrella, and its fun to think of the incredible variation of humanity across the galaxy, which is probably to the point that really any mix of features within roughly mammalian bounds and roughly human body plan.

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>>51998828
forgot the image

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>>51998976
I like the idea of the pro-Tau robots being the old ones that weren't connected a network. They, for whatever reason, went without upgrades and so remained themselves.

They weren't as smart or as strong as their rebellious kin, in terms of brain power they were more like smart humans with very broad knowledge.

The Admech know about them. They aren't happy about it.

>>51999395
With the Tau A.I. there was a suggestion that the AdMech branded them machine spirits because they fought to protect the Tau so they were /obviously/ emissaries sent from the Omnissiah to set the Tau on the proper path. It's just the Tau's fault that they won't accept the Omnissiah's wisdom.

But its just as likely that's just what the higher up AdMech said to keep the rank and file in line. The Tau have a few A.I., but at least now they know not to trust them with anything, so things are less bad.

The AdMech aren't happy. But then they're never happy.

>>51999364
Thumbsupfromthevoiddragon.holovid

So guys, I don't know exactly how to say this but...I found the first threads. Threads. As in plural. There were two of them. I can trace them all the way back to the "Big E and Isha have kids, wot do?" of the first one.

I...I'm not sure if I should post the links here. They're amazing to see the genesis of so many of the ideas that would grow to be central ideas of the project, there's even some long lost writing from Assassinbro and a mostly compatible codex entry on Taldeer, but they're from a time when so little was set in stone. There's references to old school demigod primarchs, multiple Emperors(!), pre-Starchild children of Emps and Isha, and more. My fear is if I post them we will start ripping out chunks of the current project to try to accomodate them and tear ourselves apart, when the truth is many of them are ideas that no longer fit in the AU.

Tl;dr: lost threads, wot do?

>>51999758
Throw the links on the wiki somewhere. Really, we should have links to all the previous threads somewhere. Probably the bottom of the notes section.

>>51999599
So as with everything else, the Tau get a smaller, more benign version of the robot uprising that teaches them a gentle lesson instead of destroying their civilization? Seems about on par with Taufag writing.

>>51999599
Why does this thread just assume the Imperium is right when in the universe its based off there's been little to no indication the Tau face a threat of an AI uprising?

This just smells like, as par for the course here, an attempt to again make humans dominant and right.

You've already got stories of Primarchs drinking Seer Councils under the table and Biel-Tan being forced to accept humans on worlds they want pristine, where are the examples where Primarchs and humans are forced and bested by other member species? This whole thing just seems like wanking humanity as some 'enlightned' bunch of purity sues and then Eldrad's thrown in as some token 'but nah Eldar' to deflect criticism.

>>51999758
Let's not post them here. We've come a long way since then and they would not be compatible with what we have here.

Also we've had all bar the 1st thread archived and linked in th wiki drafts page.

>>51999936
I think what you're saying has a lot of merit, and I at least like to think that this AU has left the more puerile, waifufagging elements behind.

In my interpretation, humanity is definitely NOT always right, but as the dominant power in the Imperium they use their authority to get what they want, simply because of the realpolitik fact that they have the biggest metaphorical dick. Think of it as a situation like when you were a kid and your parent told you to do something that you knew would turn out shitty, but you had to do it anyway because they forced you. At the end when everything does end up shitty all you can say is "I told you so" and hope they take your opinion the next time.

It does seem like you've missed some of the development given to the the Eldar though, if anything they have outsize influence within the Imperium given their much smaller numbers.

>>52000092
Give an example then of the Eldar getting the better of a Primarch or a situation in favour of the Eldar similar to what happened with Biel-Tan Tanith which DOESN'T include Eldrad.

>>52000092
They pretty much seem to always be right, unless its Eldrad. And Tau are pretty much only being used to sooth people's burns from the actual canon where here they're being played just so humans can be all 'we'll save you from yourselves inferior Tau'

>>51999936
>Why does this thread just assume the Imperium is right when in the universe its based off there's been little to no indication the Tau face a threat of an AI uprising?

They're not right. Indeed, they're dead wrong. The machine spirit thing is just the B.S. official line the AdMech put out to make themselves feel better. As in canon, the Imperium are the masters of cognitive dissonance.

Indeed, that's why I made the suggestion that Chaos was behind the Tau A.I. rebellion. If the Imperium figures out A.I. aren't bad until proven otherwise based on the Tau's handling of A.I., it means they get a huge leg up with robots supplementing Imperial Forces. And the Ruinous Powers refuse to let the Imperium have nice things. It's another big victory for Chaos, one the Imperium never even figures out.

>Primarchs and humans are forced and bested by other member species?

Those would be nice additions, we could use some more of those. There was a mention of the first Black Crusade being much less of a shitshow due to Eldar. The War in the Webway had the Tau saving the day, we could use a comparable one for Tau and humans.

The reason there is so much for humans is because the Eldar are by nature aloof and think they're the best thing since sliced bread. Humans have to bend over backwards and go the extra mile before the Eldar are willing to even deem them as "yeah, they're okay sometimes".

>Biel-Tan being forced to accept humans on worlds they want pristine

Lol wut? In an earlier thread it was stated that Eldar virtually never allow other races access to Maiden Worlds. They specifically drew up a list of planets that they claimed were theirs that everyone else is expected to stay off of and the humans agreed.

If you're talking about New Tanith, that was all Prince Yriel. Dude was so crazy Biel-Tan didn't want to press the issue. If a human, any human, had tried to do the same they would have been told to go fuck themselves.

>>52000162
Ulthwe is pretty much Venice+Genoa+Hanseatic League combined and has Imperial trading by the balls.

But you seem weirdly fixated on the Primarchs. Most of the bios don't even mention them interacting with the Eldar at all since the write ups focus on the WotB and other such violence. It's really only the one Russ-Saim Henn stuff that you brought up, and that's already a divisive bit of fluff.

>>52000269
So where's the counter example?

Where's the counter examples to Leman drinking Saim-Hann under the table, to Yriel compelling New Tanith, to Tau being turned into a race of retards?

>>52000298
Isn't the Ulthwe the highly human one? Gee, cause that ain't still sending the message 'be human is better' in this setting.

>>51998909
>>51998976
>>51999395
>>51999599
>>51999936
>>52000269
Huh, colour me confused. I genuinely thought Tau AI was only in its infancy and reaching the phase where the AdMech aggressively Costanza them. Guess it'd work either way, although >>51999936 is pretty right too in that we sure as hell need more fallible humans.

>>52000313
For the record - not attempting to railroad anyone here or anything - but I originally envisioned the Tau still having at least partial independence from the IoM, particularly on military matters such as well-oiled combined arms that put the Imperial Army to shame. And far, far more Farsight Adventures (TM), too

>>52000162
You seem pretty butthurt about the thing with Saim-Hann and Russ. The thing was used as the reason that Saim-Hann starting giving the Space Wolves any respect. Indeed, I don't think there's any recorded action between the primarchs and the non-Dark Eldar beyond that, unless you count the Dark Angels tearing themselves in half over Luther's irrational Eldar fears during the War of the Beast.

The two issues are its hard to write an Eldar sticking their neck out for a human without them being considered odd by Eldar standards, and to the Eldar having a bunch of aspect warriors swoop in and save the poor unenlightened humans isn't a notable event. It's just the way of the universe.

The Eldar are also massively influencing the Imperium on a cultural level. Case in point Slaanesh. The Imperium in this timeline has adopted Eldar connotations of Slaanesh (i.e., calling it She Who Thirsts) rather than being treated as a masculine entity as in canon.

>>52000421
How come no Primarchs or humans ever get shown up then? Why only Eldar?

Furthermore why go out of the way to humiliate one Eldar Craftworld by a Primarch and not do the reverse as well?

How is it odd for an Eldar to stick its neck out for a human but not for a human to do it for an Eldar?

All this just seems like obfuscating the clear problem; the human characters continuously do get the better of the Eldar (and everyone) in concrete specific circumstances and then you use vague generalization to try to draw an equivalence and dodge the clear criticism.

>>52000313
>>52000349
>>52000463

>How come no Primarchs or humans ever get shown up then?
For the simple reason that no one has written it.

>How is it odd for an Eldar to stick its neck out for a human but not for a human to do it for an Eldar?
In the combined arms tactics by militaryfag, human soldiers are the disposable anvil to the more valuable Eldar hammer.

This isn't some closed club, we welcome contributions from newcomers. Write up some fluff about humans getting shown up and we'd probably appreciate it. I don't see why you're going out of your way to rile people up.

>>52000313
>Tau being turned into a race of retards
Which Tau are those? Because the 3 Tau factions mentioned so far are the Empire of Philosophers and Technicians who invented/refined/perfected a reliable slow warp drive that revolutionized the ferry system for the Imperium, the Noble Warrior Enclave that can punch way above it's meager weight category and the hardy frontiersmen in the realm of Nemesor Zandrekh.

>counter examples to Leman drinking Saim-Hann under the table
Sreta beating entire sectors of traders under the table. Also Lady High Admiral Iyanna Arienal of Iyanden being the nominal head of her craftworld and commanding a fleet of predominantly human ships whose numbers probably rival the Legions of old.

>Yriel compelling New Tanith
That was a perfectly valid example of an in/famous eldar dragging human ass out of the fire when they got into shit they couldn't deal with and being all Big Damn Hero.

>>52000349
Ulthwe is the other gate post of the Gate Worlds. Cadia is the highly eldar influenced human world at least if not more than Ulthwe is human influence. Which is not surprising as population wise Ulthwe is bigger than Cadia. The Gate Worlds hold considerable importance to the whole Imperium so Ulthwe will always be highly important to the Imperium beyond it's numbers.

>>52000558
>Tau
Always working for the Imperium, always subordinate

>Counter examples to Saim-Hann
Not one involves Eldar showing up a Primarch or major named Human faction, involves bunches of random whos

>Yriel
Still nothing where humans are forced to go through something like Biel-tan is

So your point is?

>>52000558
Wait Cadia is highly Eldar influenced? I don't remember reading much about that. I remember we said Ulthwe is so Human in its power system other Eldar find it creepy, but I forgot what Cadia had other than Eldar living on it the way humans live on Ulthwe

>>52000558
Tau are pretty pathetic compared to their canon, here their pretty much depicted as having to need the Imperium otherwise they'd have just killed themselves.

Also 80% of plots here is "Humans save X or Y"

I don't want to rile anyone like the other anon but just think its fair to keep that in mind.

>>52000382
>the Tau still having at least partial independence from the IoM, particularly on military matters such as well-oiled combined arms that put the Imperial Army to shame

As it should be. Tau are a semi-autonomous race, as long as they don't worship Chaos or the Emperor they're free to do what they like. Imperium has combined arms, but they're not well integrated (plus the whole "no combined arms" is a post-heresy thing in canon). Tau, despite their infancy, are much more efficient despite their smaller size and have much better combined arms strategies and plasma weapons.

>>52000349
Anti-human Craftworlds like Alaitoc and Il-Kaithe don't even want to associate with the humans. Only the pro-human Craftworlds are wiling to even be around humans. How are they supposed to show the humans up when they don't even want to be in the same solar system as them, and likely wouldn't come to the Imperium's aid if you paid them.

>>52000313
Biel-Tan saving the Tallarn when the Imperium's colossal bureaucracy failed to come to their aid. Kinebrach saving Interex during WotB.

Also, the Tau aren't retarded. Think of them like this. They've been kicked in the balls a few times. But they refuse to give up. They've seen the scale of what the universe can offer them, and they want it. So what if A.I. didn't work out. They'll figure something else out. The Tau are driven to succeed, and they're advancing faster than any other race. The question is can they catch up before the End Times.

I do agree that there is a bit too much Tau ball-kicking, but that was put in way before I ever started posting on these threads. The Tau do need to fall on their face at least once, or they would never ally with the Imperium. They're too proud to do otherwise. Also haven't the Tau been on the galactic stage for far longer in this timeline?

>>52000624
I'm not seeing this much vaunted Tau competence you're mentioning.

Also it doesn't need to be Anti-human Craftworlds, Tanith and Leman weren't anti-Eldar, so why do they need to be anti-human Craftworlds?

The Tallarn thing is a good point, actually, though I'll note that then it just seems Marines get special treatment, since Tallarn is a case of the Guard. But that at least is true to all 40k verses so what can I expect.

>>52000588
>>52000620
F A R S I G H T

>>52000588
>Always working for the Imperium, always subordinate
You are aware of how much smaller the Tau Empire is than the Imperium in Vanilla?

>Not one involves Eldar showing up a Primarch or major named Human faction, involves bunches of random whos
Primarchs are all dead or missing at this point. Also there has been no story of a Primarch or major human faction showing up the eldar unless you count joint missions of two equals with joint success and benefit to be "showing up". Also the eldar managed to maneuver their All-Mother into high office after the end of the Civil War. Don't know if that counts as humans being shown up or not.

Also Harlequins manage to capture a live Swarm Lord where Kryptman has been failing for centuries.
>Kryptman a random who
>Implying

>Still nothing where humans are forced to go through something like Biel-tan is
And what have Biel-tan been forced to go through? They had to surrender settlement rights to ~15,000 humans for a whole planet that was uninhabited since The Fall. And this was forced on them by Prince Yriel.

>>52000600
They have Seers and Farseers in positions of authority or whispering in the ears of people in authority.

>>52000620
Because it's not like Eldrad save Oscar at any point, or Prince Yriel saved a bunch of humans or any thing, or Demiurg rode in like Rohan during an Armageddon war, or the Kinebrach ever helped anyone with a deamon, or Valhalla being saved from a comet impact, or Valhalla being saved from orks, or the debt Tallarn owe the eldar.

>>52000726
Aren't the only things he's ever beaten other Tau? How is that badass?

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>>52000801
>How is beating a technologically sophisticated, intelligent and more powerful opponent badass?

>>52000546
>This isn't some closed club, we welcome contributions from newcomers. Write up some fluff about humans getting shown up and we'd probably appreciate it.

This. We would appreciate it. You know, Vulkan lived seven millenia and was mentioned to have gradually become less racist to Eldar. He probably got saved at least once by an Eldar.

>>52000588
The greatest Rogue Trader in the galaxy is an Eldar. One of the greatest High Admirals in the Imperial Navy is an Eldar. There would likely be even more, if not for the fact that humans outnumber Eldar about ten to one at least (canon non-Dark Eldar population being in the single digit trillions).

Also, the Imperium in this timeline is not the Imperium of Man. It is the Imperium of the Golden Throne, or some other title that we never figured out. It is not just the Imperium of Man, but the Imperium of men, Eldar, Tau, space gorillas, tarellians, and everyone else. That's why when the Imperium is mentioned, the Imperium does not just mean humanity like in vanilla. Humans and Eldar tend to wield disproportionate power becausr 95% of the population is human, abhuman, or Eldar, and a human and an Eldar are on the throne. Is it fair? No. But that adds a spot of darkness to the Imperium's government, the idea that despite all its claims it still has skeletons in the closet.

>>52000784
>Tau
Your point?

>Eldar
We've literally been talking about Saim-Hann being shown up by Leman. The only thing you brought up here of any worth was Harlies catching the Swarmlord.

>Biel-tan
So when does a major human force, or Marine force, get forced to do something like that?

>Seers
Like? Other than Eldrad, have any of them done stuff like your Primarchs/Marines?

Anyway it doesn't matter. Some people can see and say that some fallibility from the human side is needed, others just want everything to keep going, doesn't matter.

>>52000832
He is a tau

>>52000848
>Tau
>Your point?
I'm still trying to figure out what yours is on this subject. The Tau would not be the dominant partner because they are smaller, weaker and less technologically advanced even if they are quickly closing the distance.

>We've literally been talking about Saim-Hann being shown up by Leman
When did that even happen? Saim-Hann bigwig challenged Russ to drinking contest. Russ won. Then they both got along like a house on fire and to this day the Space Viking Pope gets annoyed at Russ' old drinking buddies crashing in The Fang.

>So when does a major human force, or Marine force, get forced to do something like that?
Oh look at all these uninhabited worlds left behind by a dead Empire. Wouldn't it be nice to live on them. Oh wait, Beil-tan called dibs. Well they are our friends and allies it would be rude to refuse them.

>Like? Other than Eldrad, have any of them done stuff like your Primarchs/Marines?
Taldeer. Presumably others. Would you care to write about one of them?

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>>52000867
With considerably less resources, man power, industrial base and friends.

It's like comparing Taiwan to China.

>>52000784
The Demiurg also saved the Imperium's bacon during the Age of Apostasy. They impressed the galaxy spanning empire enough that the empire decided to amend its rules to let them in they were so awesome.

Also the Watchers saved the loyalist Dark Angels during the War of the Beast. Their information network and traitor-detecting abilities were crucial. No Watchers and the first legion would have had no survivors.

Zahndrek has also been mentioned to send ships to aid the Imperium. He was mentioned to have to be saved from tyranids once, and that was noted as odd because normally he does just fine on his own and it was less "save me" and more "help me keep the space silverfish from eating my vassals before I can kill them".

>>52000801
He was already a famous Shas'O and hero before the Civil War. He probably fought loads of enemies. He commissioned the Mont'kau battlesuits so he could RIP AND TEAR orks and tyranids with his bare hands. He was involved in the fight against the tyranids. The Tau technically won, and the only reason they took such losses is they were a little tiny empire against the Great Devourer, an outright Galactic Power.

>>52000946
This deserves mentioning. Saim-Hann does not come invited to Fenris. They just show up. They slip past one of the most sophisticated defense systems in the galaxy, and they just show up to wake up Bjorn. The wraithguard who was formerly the head of Saim-Hann is the one who picks out the best spots for fun in the galaxy, and the Vlka Fenryka (and possibly some of the White Scars, seeing as they too would get along with Saim-Hann like a house of fire, though they’re not as close as the head of Saim-Hann and Bjorn) follow Saim-Hann’s lead.

>>52000848
>Other than Eldrad, have any of them done stuff like your Primarchs/Marines?

P H O E N I X L O R D S. We need some codex entries for them akin to the primarchs, it’s just no one has done any. I would love an entry on how much of a badass Asurmen is (though his first death was pre-contact, so it would probably be a lot like canon).

>>52000620
>>52000848
It's more the Tau realized that it was pretty silly to constantly try to go it alone despite the other races of the galaxy offering to pitch in. Also the Tau don't have plot armor in this timeline.

>>52000693
They don't, but >>52000349 was claiming it had to be an anti-human one because if it was a pro-human one like Ulthwe it still sends the message of "be human is better"

>>52000382
The Tau are also mentioned to form their own, Tau-only regiments, that usually get called in to solve the problems a normal human+Eldar guard regiment can't solve alone.

>>52000693
>>51991682
You know, waaaay back in one of the old threads (about thread 4 or 5), it was suggested that it was O'Kais who kept what happened in the Kaurava system during Soulstorm from being a complete disaster after Boreale cocked it all up. O’Kais had to come riding to the recuse of an incompetent Space Marine commander to ensure that at least someone survived Kaurava instead of the human and Eldar forces being killed to a man.

So why not build on that and the above. O’Kais is one of the most well-known Tau military commanders alive in 999.M41. The reason he seems like such an Imperiaboo is he spent time as part of an Inquisitor’s retinue, so he’s spent time watching thing like Aspects of Steel and whatnot. Nevertheless, he’s still managed to garner quite the military reputation on his own through his own actions in the Tau military, no Imperial help required.

O’Kais got onto the Inquisitor’s retinue for a damn good reason, and people are shocked to learn he’s basically the Tau equivalent of Doomguy. O’Kais, for his part, is rather sedate about the whole affair, and although he prefers not to talk about what he’s seen, when he does talks it sounds like a normal person would talk about how they enjoyed a semester studying abroad. It’s debatable whether he actually feels this way, feels this way because of the muted connection Tau have to the Warp, or if he’s using it as a coping mechanism (given that he does avoid bringing it up).

He’s no Shadowsun, but that’s because Shadowsun is the equivalent of a soldier who somehow managed to fight on the front lines in the American Civil War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War (or any other series of major wars for your country of choice).

>>52001644
So we going with Fire Warrior game Kais also being the same guy as O'Kais?

Sounds good.

Given the shorter life span and less effective longevity treatments of the Tau he would be a brash young man in his Doomguy days. Now if he had hair it would be grey. His skin is lined and leathery, his eyes are wary, his pace measured.

O'Kais has seen some shit and shit related accessories. How old is he? 70 maybe. Maybe 75ish. Biologically. He's spent so much time rattling around on ships that it's hard to say. He was born 122 years ago but such is travel through the warp.

He should be a figure of near mythic proportions on the Eastern Fringe, his name spoken beyond traditional Tau Space. His Inquisitorial has passed the hundred years of silence rule so a lot of it's open to the public.

He has earned the distinction of commanding Space Marines to victory, a thing no other Fire Caste has done.

If anything he has become more dangerous in his twilight years. He is Doomguy and has trained Doomguys to succeed him.

Upon his death he has given orders for his body to be frozen and sent to Pech. He made a deal after the shit on Dolumar IV with a wise old Shaper. His funeral will be a feast before the Oathstone beneath the greatest Jagga Tree.

>>52001980
Tau have started trying their own rejuvenants after seeing that it was possible with the Imperium (plus longer time to try new tech, checked Lexicanum and Tau are at least a millenium or two ahead of schedule compared to vanilla). They're not as good as humans or the Eldar, given these species have had thousands of years to git gud, but unlike humans the treatments are available to everyone because Tau have a smaller, more efficient bureaucracy.

>Upon his death he has given orders for his body to be frozen and sent to Pech. He made a deal after the shit on Dolumar IV with a wise old Shaper. His funeral will be a feast before the Oathstone beneath the greatest Jagga Tree.

I like this. He wants to be eaten after his death, in the hopes that his flesh will be so badass it will make the Kroot into a bunch of Doomguys like him.

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>>52002162
Or it's possible he lost a drunken bet with a Shaper and offered his flesh as payment on the eventuality of his death.

>>52001644
>>52001980
>>52002162
Yeah, I liked that anon's interpretation of Dawn of War in this AU. Makes sense that O'Kais could have jumped in and seized command so save everything from falling to shit.

Since Tau are written in canon as explicitly weaker and slower-reflexed than humans, how about O'Kais pulls off Doomguy feats because he's a natural massive outlier plus the fact he pilots a prototype battlesuit?

Tau are already anime inspired so we might as well go all the way with him falling into the cockpit of the next secret Tau superweapon suit. (sort of kidding with this)

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I still think we need more on the Wild Hunt eldar/Disciples of Kurnous.

It seems that the eldar that keep turning up at The Fang are usually mostly them and that the Wraith Guard whether with them or commanding them is a former Saim-Hann leader. A mutual friend of both Russ and Bjorn it would seem and possibly the one that got roaring drunk with Russ back in the day.

This would indicate that Saim-Hann has a connection to them, which would make sense thematically. It was also mentioned that they considered Isha weak, "soft bodied" and slightly foolish. Perhaps they venerated her husband more than her back in the old days.

With the loss of Kurnous and the unmistakable rise of Isha to prominence their culture has shifted to a matriarchal one (as mentioned in the Lexicanum in Vanilla) rather than the old patriarchal one.

With this cultural shift the disciplehood of Kurnous has faded away. Kurnous is dead and is slowly becoming less relevant with each passing millennium.

Are the ones that keep trespassing in The Fang all that is left of them by 999M41? Probably not, but it's not as far off as you might think. Soon these animal skin wearing savages will fade away, one more relic of the Old Empire gone.

>>52002845
He might have piloted a battlesuit in his later years as a Shas'O or some other officer rank but as a mere Shas'la going Doomguy on Dolumar IV he would have had basic grunt gear.

>>52003035
My point is that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. As amusing as a single Fire Warrior soloing Chaos Space Marines and a Lord of Change is, we've been pretty consistent with power levels in this AU and we would at least need a good reason(s) for how he'd pull off feats at that high of a level, not to mention why he'd even be picked for an Inquisitorial fire team if he was still a grunt and didn't have some good experience under his belt.

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>>52003106
He managed it because he was already badass. And very, very lucky.

He didn't get promoted past Shas'la for ages because he was part of an inquisitoral retinue and so on paper remained a basic grunt with.

Maybe his gear was slightly better than basic grunt, but it was all still Tau gear. Short power sword and a tau plasma weapon and sidearm.

Battlesuits are not good for infiltration missions or running around confined environments, as work for the Inquisition contains much of so it's doubtful he would have had one until he rejoined the Tau Military properly.

How did he take down a Lord of Change? By throwing mining explosives warped around a compromised plasma rifle at it and running in the other direction really fast. Not very heroic in and of itself but it worked.

>>52003263
I was more thinking one of these:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Stealth_Battlesuit

The XV22 is about the size of an SM, and he pilots (wears?) one when he shows up in DoW, it's not a stretch to say he got it a bit earlier in this AU especially if he's going on Inquisitorial suicide missions. Tau probably see taking roles in the Inquisition as a good way to increase their standing and influence in the Imperium, like how humanity views Shepard becoming a Spectre in Mass Effect.

>>52003469
Like all semi-autonomous member states, the Tau are essentially allowed to do as they please so long as they provide a tithe in terms of troops, munitions, or supplies. For the semi-autonomous member states, this essentially acts more as a pledge in a mutual protection pact than anything else: you send supplies to help another world in their darkest hour so there will be someone to protect you in yours.

The worlds of the Tau Empire send troops. They always, almost without exception, send troops. The Tau Empire see sending troops as their opportunity to one up the humans and Eldar on the battlefield, and show off their own military prowess and how they have the better, well-oiled war machine. It's a point of pride with them. As a result, there are a proportionally far larger number of Tau regiments than would be expected for an empire of its size.

Comparing Tau to humanity in the first Mass Effect is a good comparison. They're the young newcomers who are shaking up the galactic order and want a seat at the top. There's a reason the word Tau is on everybody's lips as opposed to tarellan, kroot, or kinebrach.

>>52002845
>>52003035
>>52003106
>>52003263
>>52003469
Kais could have done at least part of the events of Fire Warrior as part of the Inquisition team, the events could be greatly exaggerated, or he could have done an All Guardsman Party and improvised with copious explosives. His name is "Kais" after all.

>>52002959
We need a name for the leader of Saim-Hann first. There doesn't seem to be any notable canonical Saim-Hann eldar who fit the bill. Maybe some more Elvish-sounding version of Cúchulainn? Alternatively (and on a decidedly non-serious note, we could call him Taghrush (phonetic portmaneu of "That Guy Who Runs Saim-Hann").

I imagine this guy was someone who wanted to spend all his years on the Path of the Warrior, but the rest of the Craftworld pushed him into becoming a Farseer due to his wisdom (especially as a pre-Fall Eldar). He went "fuck this" and decided to do both, becoming a warlock (or at least a farseer that goes into battle, it's kind of ambiguous if a warlock is a seer that goes into battle or just another name for a seer that has not been lost on the Path of the Seer), especially given Saim-Hann's canonically lax attitude to the paths.

I can't find any mention of Saim-Hann being matriarchal. Are you thinking of Iybraesil?

But I can see the rest. There are still some recruits trickling in to the disciplehood of Kurnous, passing down the traditions from one generation to the next, but they are fewer and fewer each year. New Wild Riders have sprung up in their wake, but they just aren't the same.

>>51999797
>>52000015
So, yea or nay on what to do with them. Should I just put the links for 1 and 1b on the draft page? Should I try to at least salvage what few parts seem compatible for the notes?

Also, these are the 1st thread. The missing one. It just so happens we miscounted.

>>52001372
>The Tau are also mentioned
I know. I mentioned them.

>>52006443
He doesn't have to be the leader. Just prominent enough for the others to follow for a while.

>>52008096
I think it was that he was the leader (or at least, one of the leaders) of Saim-Hann back during the Raid on Nurgle's Mansion, and since then he has retired from the leadership position.

Wrote up an intro for Survivor civilizations and what they are for the 1d4chan page, along with a blurb for the Craftworld's status as members states in their own right, in part based on some previous posts.

http://pastebin.com/MFDa66FV

Rather hard to describe how the Imperium treats survivor civilizations when you can't just go "they all got the same deal as Mars" since this is explaining the specifics of the deal Mars got.

The one thing I can't figure out is what to do about Exodite worlds. Uninhabited Maiden Worlds are spoken for by the Eldar, but in canon it's clear that the Exodites are independent of any one Craftworld, even if they do come to the Exodites' aid. It's also clear that the Imperium treats the Exodites the same as any other Survivor civilization. Did the Imperium just negotiate with Exodite worlds like they did with the Craftworlds?

>>52008356
Most of the exodite worlds were in agreements with a Craftworld so they would probably have followed when their craftworld joined.

>>52006561
Mind linking these threads you've found? I'm curious about them.

>>52006443
For name for a leader of that craftworld it should be something Celtic derived.

>>52001372
>P H O E N I X L O R D S

Did we come to a conclusion about what they were this time?

I'm all for the eldar that went into the rift along side Oscar and Co. as being more or less normal with the exception of Asurmen Pathfounder.

Of the eldar, and most of the humans, that came out most were suffering at least one sort of PTSD. Most either jumped off of the War Path right there and then or did so not long after. Bjorn's Wraithguard friend as an example joined the next Harlequin Trope he met.

But some stayed on The War Path and became lost on it, there was only one broad War Path at that time, and became the Phoenix Lords. They embodied more refined aspects of the art of killing rather than Asurmen's generalized method.

The PLs have only been leveling up all down Imperial History.

Some say that they are going to be marching alongside the Reforged Khine in the The Rhana Dandra when the Impossible Child brings war to the gods and holds them accountable for the things they have done or whatever he is going to do. By then the PLs will be demigod tier.

Also Asurmen would be only one of two living craftworlders comperable in age to Eldrad although I don't suspect they would get along on a personal level.

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>>52012316
>I'm all for the eldar that went into the rift along side Oscar and Co. as being more or less normal with the exception of Asurmen Pathfounder.

That part is agreed on, the question is what happened afterwards.

>Also Asurmen would be only one of two living craftworlders comperable in age to Eldrad although I don't suspect they would get along on a personal level.

Eldrad and Asurmen might have gotten along better than one would think. Both were single-mindedly focused on saving their people, and it's likely Asurmen was the only other person who could get the Craftworlds to cooperate. When the Craftworlds started to fracture and stop listening to Eldrad Asurmen had already gone through his first death, and since the Craftworlders would not listen to Eldrad and Asurmen was indisposed Eldrad decided to go above their heads and bring back the one person they would listen to: Isha.

Isha would also be a good source of Eldar awesomeness, since she's like 50% friend to all living things and 50% iron matriarch from absorbing Macha. She's basically Alarielle the Everquen.

Isha may not be able to see the future, but she can plan further ahead than any human can. Imperial corruption has a habit of...being uprooted and revealed when she's around, usually with the intended target none the wiser. No one will hurt her family (read: the Imperium) again, not even if they are her own adopted children (read: humans)

>>52013063
Holy hell, what is this drawfaggotry and why is it so cute?

>>52013603
Oldfags correct me if I'm wron but I think it's one of LewdAnon's from the days of the Weekend Smut Threads.

>>52013063
I think more needs to be done with how deeply rooted the eldar now are in Imperial politics in regards to the seers and farseers. The ability to see into the future is basically the wet dream of any politician or administrator and that's the thing that the eldar are famous for doing better than anyone else.

Every High Lord sshould have at least one farseer on their assistant staff. Possibly every member of the government down to maybe planetary governor.

Politically they punch way above what their numbers would suggest. 90% of the Imperium is human (including abhumans and shit) but the eldar are on equal footing because they are so damn useful.

Also the Eldar military are the warrior elite of the Imperium. They are not quite as good, one on one, as the Space Marines but tend to be better than most humans especially when they get to use their specialization.

Also "Rommel" has a Frankenstein tank.

>>52014279
I thought we dismissed Rommel as being too direct of a reference/satire, of both garupan and the actual guy.

Yes, I know we made jubblowski and lofn canon, but still.

>>52015061
Would it help if Tank Eldar had a different name?

>>52015117
Rom'el Erviniel (kinda joking)

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>>52015901
Or as someone else suggested in either the last or last+1 thread his full name is an amalgamation of the varied life he has lived on the Path of the Outcast and later his solo Path of the Tank; Kaeseith-Forsan Bill Fio'La N'dras Naseur Romn'el av Alaitoc av Mymeara

Alaitoc is where he was born and whose demands strict and puritan adherence to The Path System encouraged him to run away. Originally he was supposed to be a Bone Singer specializing in the repair and maintenance of the war vehicles. He was quite good at it. Problems arose when he wanted to start doing things to the wraith bone outer layer and making depictions of famous possibly mythological battles from the time of Eldernesh. He was given an ear chewing. He was not on the Path of the Artist, mixing Paths is degenerate.

Spent some time traveling the galaxy in his youth. Despite his parent worries he never felt drawn down dark paths.

Mymeara was where he tried to reintegrate to a less stringent interpretation of the Path. Tried to be a Seer. Was not particularly skilled at his and his teacher wasn't particularly brilliant at it either. On Mymeara he first encounters the Tau. Learns of their martial disciplines. Asks if he can sign on as additional help to their Fire Caste soldiers.

Spends next 50 years moving from one war zone to another. Started out as the gun loader of a Hammerhead. Eventually was given the driver seat. As time passed he moved up the ranks of his cadre, commanding from his now massively customized Hammerhead. Was very successful, in part due to his devastating war chariot, in part due to his now considerable experience and also in part due to his (stunted) precognitive abilities.

Grew board of his new life, as eldar wanderers are prone to do.

>>52016622
Rather than loose him the Tau Shas'O brass gave him his own semi-autonomous selection of semi-functional hover tanks. With some Mechanicus parts, some Tau technology and his old skills of a Bonesinger and a lot of manic laughter he forged those wrecks into something terrible and crewed them with the mad the wise the eccentric and insane.

No two tanks in his cadre are quite alike, no two crews ticking quite in sync with the rest of the Greater Good but Kaeseith-Forsan Bill Fio'La N'dras Naseur Romn'el av Alaitoc av Mymeara, or Hammerhead Bill as he has become known, has never been happier.

>>52016622
>>52016657
This is what I get for missing who knows how many threads thanks to bullshit.
As the guy that tried creating Rommel, I approve of Hammerhead Bill. That is crazy awesome.
And it gives me my Rommel, because obviously Hammerhead Bill has inspired the Mymeara Eldar and their colonies to include the Path of The Tank.

>>52012316
The other thing too is the Phoenix Lords were supposed to be the best students of Asurmen before the Raid on Nurgle's Mansion, which is why they were picked to come along. Of course, if they were the best students, that would probably explain why they stayed on the Path after having seen the worst the universe could offer.

Writeup of Armageddon. It took me far longer that it should have to finish this.

Armageddon is a world of steel and fire.
First, the steel. The Orks, when they transformed the world into their Attack Planet, coated it entirely in armor plate and gun batteries, every former geological feature paved over, even the oceans drained for reactor coolant or simply built over with vast platforms. Ullanor gained a second crust of iron over its previous one of stone. (Where the Orks got all this metal is unknown; current best guess is they used teleporters to extract it directly from the world's core.)

Then, the fire. When Ollanius Pius slammed his ship at a third lightspeed into the Attack Planet and knocked it off its collision course with Old Earth, the force of impact broke the stone crust like a dropped vase. Immense volcanic fissures opened up swallowing vast sections of the gun-continents, the oceans rushed back to their former positions, everything not covered in lava was covered in ash.

Enough of the teleporter system survived for long enough for the Attack Planet to teleport one last time.
When the Imperium re-encountered the world which had once been Ullanor, it was shattered almost beyond recognition. Vast plumes of ash carpeted the continents. The rust oceans were filled with toxic metals from flooded war machines and boiled from undersea volcanoes. The continents were speckled with standing seas of molten metal where volcanic heat met mind-boggling amounts of steel. The air consisted mainly of volcanic gasses, with occasional pockets of breathable air scattered throughout the mangled planet-spanning superstructure.

There were still Orks all over the place, of course. Fighting among each other and trying to repair machines they no longer had the WAAAAAGH-power to comprehend.
(cont.)

>>52019976
Its conquest by the Imperium was swift and thorough. The Steward, still angry and grieving over all the Beast had taken from him, lead the conquest personally, clearing the world inside a month. He renamed it Armaggeddon, for what it had so nearly wrought.

Then, after the conquest came the industry. Great siphons were erected to sup metal from the molten lakes. Then factories. Mines. Hives. Mechanicus and Biologis terraformers to make the air something other than ash and acid.

Now, Armaggeddon is a wasteland of industry. River-deltas of liquid iron carry metal from the natural volcanic smelters to the millions of factories. Excavation machines the size of Titans carry megatons of scrap metal to the volcano-forges. Despite the best efforts of the Biologis, hardy engineered grasses spreading out over endless ash plains, gas masks and heavy protective clothing is still required outside the hives. Even the ash is made useful, mixed into concrete and exported by the millions of tons to enrich the soil of thousands of agri-worlds.

Even after ten thousand years of this there is still so much material left. Endless armor plate. Forests of macrocannon pointing into the empty sky. Hangars filled with rusted war machines stretching out to the horizon. And still so many Orks. It is traditional for the regiments of the Steel Legion to cut their teeth suppressing feral Ork populations before deploying to the wider Imperium.
Even after ten thousand years of human control, Armageddon is still in many ways an Ork world. Seen from orbit, even through the glowing scars and ash, the original shape of its structures is still dimly visible; a grinning, tusked skull.

Thoughts? I realize the status of Armageddon isn't actually settled yet, but I had the idea and wanted to get it out.

>>52019996
I like the description. Gives Armageddon a bit more of a defined motif than in canon. Don't get me wrong, canon Armageddon is cool, but this more specifically draws attention to why the worlds is such an important forge world and why most of it is an ash-infested hell-hole.

Does the equatorial jungle still exist? I have a hard time seeing a completely orkiformed Armageddon retaining trees, and a hard time seeing the Biologis as able to plant them, especially since in canon the jungles end up being a haven for feral orks.

The only thing I would add to the mention of the rediscovery of Armageddon is the impact causing the raising of new mountain ranges. Armageddon is supposed to have a bunch of mountains.

>>52009810
>>51999797
>>52000015

Put the links on the 1d4chan for posterity. If anyone wants to go looking through them it's up to them.

The member states section was getting kind of bulky, so I put the new writing up for the Survivor civilizations and gave them all a new page. Hopefully they manage to sound okay.

Also, not to reawaken an old argument, but I just noticed there is no universal rule against A.I. in the Imperium.

Also also, on a completely unrelated note, GW has never published a canon word for "hello" in both Tau and Eldar. I guess in the grim darkness of the far future there is no time for greetings or sarcastic one-liners.

>>52020793
>Does the equatorial jungle still exist?
Almost certainly not. I imagine there's some vegetation (Ork spores don't count), but it would be introduced by the Biologis and would have to be constantly tended. Volcanic ash is fertile in moderate amounts, but having meter-high drifts pile up on an annual basis does plants no good.
As for mountains, yeah, probably a lot of them. I'll edit in a mention when/if it gets on the wiki.

>>52019996
I really like this, especially the imagery of forests of rusting macrocannons stretching across the horizon.

Also, not to be pedantic, but a megaton is a measure of explosive energy equal to one million tons of TNT.

>>52020820
Holy shit, it really is the first thread. I think I had mentally repressed what a shitshow it was.

>>52021221
Strictly speaking, a 'megaton' is just one million tons, just as a kilometer is one thousand meters. The /most common/ use is as a measure of explosive force, but its use in this context is also correct.

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Alright, so I finally got the writeup of Ursh done. Lot more words than I had hoped for. Hopefully everything is accounted for.

http://pastebin.com/NtzmPP8V

Also something that might be of interest is while looking at Corax's fluff, it says Curze came on before Corax. Is that still the case or does it need to be changed since Curze was a Mark III MP?

On a related note, I was thinking that in this timeline the Roma, Ursh's vassal air force, might have been the "inspiration" for the later Chaos Helldrakes. In canon, the Roma were described as never setting foot on the ground, which could be interpreted as them being physically wired into their planes to some degree. Chaos may have decided to take this idea and run with it, taking it (like everything Chaos does) up to 11 and physically fusing the flesh of the pilot into the machine. This would give Chaos a ready supply of Helldrakes from baseline human beings without having to waste precious traitor marines like in canon because there are relatively fewer Fallen.

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>>52021221
I know, right? The beginning was downright painful to read. It really only started to get good when the core ideas took shape in the latter part of the thread.

I think we can all agree that this project, despite whatever flaws it may have, is a shining example of pic related.

>>52022382
Pretty good.

>>52022382
Good stuff. I can't quite pin down which writefag you are, maybe Khanfag again? Or maybe you're one we haven't given a nickname yet?

>>52022608
Yeah, whatever ends up happening and if these threads eventually die, it's been a lot of fun writing crazy shit in here with you anons.

Also, I think the thread 1b link on the draft page is the same as the thread 2 link that was already there, so I think we're still missing the thread where we came up with the ideas of the Steward and Empty Throne and such.

>>52023599
Did you check thread 1?

>>52022382
It fits perfectly and adds great flavour.

>>51999758
>Assassinbro

Who?

More writing on Armageddon.

Everybody knows the Steel Legion. Reflections of their world in microcosm. Steel and fire and ash; unstoppable waves of armor, Basilisk barrages like monsoon rains, choking clouds of lung-burning gas.

Less well-known is the fact that there are two parts to the Steel Legion. The first and largest, the heavy mechanized infantry they are famous for. The second is the Outriders.

The Outriders are all crazy. The main regiments recruit from inside the hives, the factory and forge workers, but the Outriders recruit from outside the hives, and there are only two ways to make a living out there.

The first is prospecting and wildcat mining. Delving deep into ancient and much-abused Ork-built structures with jury-rigged and second-hand equipment in search of veins of valuable materials. Everything from gold electric circuits to adamantine armor plate. (Most valuable is components of the old teleporter system. The Mechanicus decided it wants planet teleporters more than it hates Ork 'technology', and pays staggering sums for the smallest scraps.) The description alone should tell you everything you need to know about how hard and dangerous the job is.

The second is Ork hunting. The Administratum and PDF will pay good throne for Ork skulls. 2 for a squig, 5 for a grot, and starting at 40 for an Ork, more for larger or special types like Weirdboys and Brainboys. Reimbursement for promethium spent burning the bodies, and the PDF doesn't check too hard to make sure you're not claiming driving-around promethium as Ork-burning expense.
-

>>52024740
Outrider legend tells of Billy-Joe Hammerlord, who drove through an entire warband on his bike to take the head of the Warboss and earned enough to retire. The story grows every time in the retelling, so by now the warband stretched from one horizon to the other, the Warboss carved paths through the rubble for his army to march through just by dragging his axe along the ground behind him, and Billy-Joe earned enough to buy himself a fleet and became a Rogue Trader and went on adventures with Prince Yriel.

Officially, all the Orks on Armageddon are Feral. Most places, that means stone axes and weird squigs. But this is Armageddon. The world still remembers in her bones when she strode among the stars and slapped aside Battlefleet Solar like so many children's toys. A lot of the Orks are just waving around scrap-metal axes. Depending on what armories they've broken into, they might be tossing around vortex bombs.

The point is that Outriders are all crazy. In some ways they sort of resemble Orks themselves. They move around in a wide assortment of walkers, fat-tired buggies, and motorbikes, made of scrap metal and spare parts. Most of them started life in a Mechanicus factory but after generations of repairs and modifications nothing of the original vehicle is to be found. And most of them are that old- a good vehicle is a heirloom, passed down from father to son, each generation adding a bit more to it. They stick spikes on and stick Ork skulls on the spikes, and judge each other by how skull-laden their bosspoles are. When an Ork warband and an Outrider clan are fighting it sometimes gets hard to tell which is which.
Outriders prefer las-weapons over slug, so there is that.
-

>>52024753
A common rite of passage among the Outriders is for the father to cripple an Ork with shots to its limbs, then for son finish it off with a knife. This marks the transition from childhood into adolescence. True manhood is often not considered to begin until the son repeats the ritual, as the father. It is important not just to kill Orks, but to ensure that Ork-killing will continue into the far future.

The point is that Outriders are all crazy, but they are Ork-killing crazy so they make excellent candidates for the Imperial Guard. Sometimes entire clans get recruited into their own regiments. Sometimes restless young men come in on their own to the recruiting office and get incorporated into the regular Steel Legions as scouts and cavalry. Most of the time they insist on bringing their own vehicles and most of the time the Munitorum lets them. It justs insists that they can repair their vehicles with standard issue parts. Since most of the time their vehicles are kitbashes of Sentinels and Chimeras this is usually not hard.

For all their skill and lunatic courage the Outriders are not famous, for the good and simple reason that there simply aren't as many of them as the normal Steel Legions. Armageddon outside the hive walls does not support high population densities. They just fade into the background as 'specialized auxiliaries' of the Steel Legion. But those who have met them have given rise to a proverb- 'Armageddon has many faces, and all of them are lethal."

>>52024759
That is fucking sweet.

It also for some reassdon reminds me of the Ashlanders from Morrowind.

It also might come as a hilarious shock to some Imperial Army or PDF commander when he hears that his forces are being bolstered by much need reinforcements. He is told they are from Armageddon and all he, like most, only knows of the more prevalent ordered ranks of steal and discipline that is the Steel Legions.

Then he meets them. Mad bastards with ork skull helmets, war paint, mismatched weapons and equipment, unorthodox tactics, seemingly no fear or even concept of death and all rattling and clanking to war in vehicles that look like living insults to the Omnissiah. When they turned up the head enginseer started to cry.

Also it is the Colonels opinion that nobody should charge into battle screaming "WHAT A DAY! WHAT A LOVELY DAY!"

Emperor Oscar encountered them at least once when one of the state tours took him to Armageddon. He said they reminded him of the people of Strayllya.

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>>52018886
Hammerhead Bill is inspired by your Rommel but Path of the Tank is 100% not a legitimate Path followed any Craftworld, Enclave, Exodite world or Green World. It is total bull shit made up by Hammerhead Bill who gives no fucks what you think.

There are warrior paths that specialize in tanks but they usually have stringent criteria in regards to training, type of vehicle and acceptable procedure. They also have more flowery names than Tonk Path.

Hammerhead Frankensteined his chariot out of eldar, mechanicus and earth caste parts, hired a bunch of dipshits of dubious legitimacy, gave them full license to pimp their rides and does weird and borderline insane shit.

He can call it the Path of the Tank all he wants but the only people who are buying it are the Tau who don't know shit about the path system.

Other than a little bit in last thread about it being the keystone to Guilliman's Big Plan B nothing much has been said about the Survivor Civilization of Ultramar.

How should Ultramar be in this AU?

>>52000092
>>I at least like to think that this AU has left the more puerile, waifufagging elements behind.
Waifufagging is part and parcel of this concept from the very fucking start, I mean this setting's version of the emprah is married to an eldar goddess for fuck's sake.

>>51972949
Remove Spike-Rapist from premisies
IMPRIUM STRONK
EMPRAH IS GOOD.

>>52027414
>Political marriage is waifufagging

Going to have to disagree with you on that one. Yes Emps and Isha do love each other but they were strangers when they got married.

If anything the nearest we have to waifufagging is the introduction of Taldeer and LIVVI.

>>52027460

>>The nearest thing we have to waifufagging is the single most blatant example of it in /tg/ history going back some 10+ fucking years at this point.
Still waifufagging, not to mention that little bit with the cadians having the highest rates of intermarriage with eldar. For the record, I have nothing wrong with this, and I see no reason to dismiss it as being puerile, just so long as it doesn't crowd out other things.

>>52026672
Ultramar should be relatively independent compared to many worlds. They're a Survivor civilization after all, so they got the same deal as the AdMech or squats.

There was a suggestion in a previous thread that Macragge is like the Athens to Nuceria's Sparta. If we go that route then the worlds of Ultramar could be like the Delian League, united from the outside but with significant cultural differences inside. The two biggest butting heads in Ultramar are Macragge and Calth, who nevertheless agree with each other more than either does with Nuceria. So Roman-like culture with a Greek-like political system or something.

They're also probably bros with the Tau, moreso than your average human. What started out as a rivalry due to close space turned into respect after the Tau shared the Tau drive with them (at least, if not earlier) which revolutionized civilian and cargo travel in Ultramar. They're probably one of the heaviest users of it besides the Tau.

>>52024229
The guy who did the writing for most of the Craftworlds, the Assassins, and Krieg (I think, he may have done more). He did really good writing, but disappeared a while ago.

>>52024759
Holy crap. Its like Mad Max, the batallion. And I love it.

>>52026038
It's too bad he missed Arkhan Land by about eight thousand years, otherwise they could have geeked out over tanks together.

>>52028148
So does Calth not get nuked this time around?

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>>52027414
>>52027460
>>52027460
>>52027508
>Forgetting Isha's avatar and her prophet

>>52028148
>the Athens to Nuceria's Sparta
Literally where

>>52028827
She Isha end and Macha begins is impossible to determine.

>>52028841
Where canon Angron grew up.

>>52028563
There's no reason to think it would. The Beast's armies streamed across the borders of the Imperium from the north or northeast (I think so, I'm not entirely sure where Ullanor was supposed to be) in a blitzkrieg attack with the Cronedar (based in the North) at their backs.

Chaos and the Beast's forces attacked every part of the Imperium and caused havoc everywhere (see:Drach'nyen and the Segmentum Pacificus), but Obscuras and Solar by far saw the worst of the fighting. The whole reason Ultramar was picked by Guilliman for his back-up plan was because it was so far away from the rest of the Imperium that any enemy would have to go out of their way to attack it (or sweep through at just the right angle, like the 'nids). The only reason Calth was destroyed in canon was because Lorgar wanted to ruin Guilliman's stuff.

>>52025217
For religion they have to be some sort of ancestor and/or small gods type worship just so we can have them look to the heavens and scream WITNESS ME! before doing something suicidal and badass.

>>52020820
>TIL it's been 5 months, 13 days
Christ lads, we've been going for nearly half a year...

>>52029208
>>52028148
So it's rule by representative democracy, one planet one vote, in times of peace and a consul elected to rule in times of war or some shit.

Also in this noble darkness it was the Word Bearers that made first contact with Ultramar and started the diplomacy.

>>52028855
Jubblowski earns special notice for being a cosmic slut that gets plowed by dudes all day and constantly spewing out babies.

>>52031192
Hey, did we get any writefaggotry for Jubblowksi in the early stages her prayers to Isha being answered? Not just for magical realm although partially so, but because the idea of a lowly IG Private having to cope with all this and transition into being Isha's Prophet sounds pretty interesting

>>52031348
We got basic greentext outlines and a bit of other stuff mentioned but little more.

Also a drawfag.

>>52031187
Maybe. It could be that when Guilliman started making preparations for his Imperium Secundus plan he helped streamline Ultramar's government so it was a little bit more stable and less headbutting.

In canon, for years pre-Guilliman the Realm of Ultramar was essentially the "Macragge and Friends" show, much like how the real life Delian League was sarcastically referred to as the "Athenian Empire". IIRC, in canon Macragge was terrified that Calth was going to outstrip them in population and importance and become the head of Ultramar. Guilliman could have helped set things up so Macragge didn't have to worry about being upstaged by Calth but at the same time make Macragge less hegemonic (I am aware of the irony).

From what it sounds like in canon, it looks like Ultramar is 45% Roman, 45% Greek (less obvious, but you see it in the beliefs in individual self-reliance and such), with the rest being a mish mash of other things.

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I noticed that we did not have any of our ideas written down on Ciaphas Cain (besides one mention in the entry on Dorhai) and made a compilation of our ideas to put on the Notes page until something more solid can be written. However, I know some people did not like the idea of Cain’s only claim to fame being the ambassador to Biel-Tan (not to mention some of the other mentions we have about him still imply he is considered a hero to the Imperium), so I propose this slight modification.

Ciaphas Cain started out as a commissar and did some of the stuff he is known for in canon, but after a few close scrapes with death too many he realized he was never going to get the “lifetime of rear-echelon obscurity” he was planning on, and retired to a desk job. However, because this is Ciaphas Cain, chew-toy of the universe, this “cushy deskjob” ends up being the ambassador to Biel-Tan. Indeed, Ciaphas Cain is about the perfect person for the Imperium to send to Biel-Tan. He’s enough of a war hero that Biel-Tan would not outright dismiss anything he has to say, but he has enough of a sense of self-preservation that he is not going to aggravate Biel-Tan to war, as others might.

http://pastebin.com/sXkykyZB

>>52032050
It's perfect. Has it been added to the 1d4chan page?

>>52033217
It's just a notes compilation, it still needs some work before it can be an actual entry.

Also, we might need to have a little bit of explanation as to how Miriam has command of the Word Bearer successors and the guard regiment. I was under the impression that it's not until you get into the really high levels of the military that you get people who can order both Space Marines and Imperial Guard around. And that Sisters of Battle were kind of the same way.

Maybe it's more soft power, she's not technically in command of them but she's such a firebrand that the actual Astartes and Guard commanders tend to follow her lead?

>>51981972
Do we actually have a solid quote for this? With the (hopefully temporary) absence of editfag, I might pick up a bit of the slack on the wiki front.

>>52034207
Yes. From the archives.

>"W...what are you doing soldier? Go back and man the damn wall you idiot, because I sure as hell won't be able to."
>- The dying words of Rogal Dorn, bitching at the guy trying to save his mortally wounded commanding officer's life by pulling him off the battlements of Cadia

>>52034178
Yeah, soft power and having strong ties to a chapter makes more sense than outright commanding them. I think it was mentioned way back that SMs only answer to sector-level central command and those generals and admirals decide where the SM forces are best deployed, somewhat similar to US special forces organization. Though most SMs are reasonable and humble enough to consider or defer to advice from Guard officers on the ground, given their greater familiarity of their deployment zones.

Armageddon, the Armageddon Outriders, and Ursh have all gone on the wiki.

>>52035029
So, would she be in direct command of a Sisters of Battle force and then have the ear of the Guard and SMs, or can a Sister promoted to general be put in charge of a few regiments of Imperial Guard?

>>52035029
>>52035096
A heads-up (before we get into fighting over them again) that the Sisters aren't really an independent force in themselves; they're primarily the fighting muscle of the Inquisition, and secondarily Fallen hunters.

>>52035122
Exactly, that was my question. How would a Sister get in a position where they could command the respect of a small group of Space Marines and several regiments of guard?

>>52035143
Oh. In that case, battlefield promotions - in the heat of battle, the inquisitor gets offed, and Miriam, (being the most senior and most heavily armed member of the retinue) takes de facto command. Proceeds to Get Shit Done better than the original Inquisitor would've, and earns honourary promotion to Canon-quisitor-ess-whateverthefuck, before climbing the ranks properly to there.

>>52035143
>>52035122
>>52035096
It could be that she rose through the ranks of her homeworld's PDF and Guard regiments.

Her world being back theocracy and recruitment world of the Word Bearers.

Due to being badass and kicking ass she gets promoted to commanding Imperial Army rather than PDF.

A company of the local Word Bearers are seconded to her regiment.

She is not an actual Adepta Securitus sister, she's a Katholian Battle Nun and Officer.

Bump

bump

So did we ever come up with a name for the Cronedar's Flying Dutchman? The entry for it is on the Notes page on 1d4chan and its about ready to go on the page as soon as we get a good name.

The last two names we had were Ghost's Hand (too close to a masturbation joke, even for the Cronedar) and Romero's Daikatana (a bit of a reference too far).

Anyway, some thoughts I had on Imperial Army organization.

The Imperial Army has no soldiers. This is a weird statement and requires qualification. The Imperium has many different armed forces and they all have different chains of command. The Guard, the Navy, the Astartes, the Sororitas, the Eldar and Tau and Demiurg and Squats. They all belong to the broad umbrella of the Army, but they /also/ belong to one of its specific branches. Guardsmen obviously belong to the Guard, astronauts to the Navy, various xeno forces to their respective regional/species militaries. It is not until you start getting into the upper reaches of command that you start seeing people who are *just* Imperial Army, so it can be said that the Imperial Army consists of nothing but officers.

Naturally the exact implementation is often complex and confusing. High rank in a single branch does not automatically confer rank within the Imperial Army, although brevet ranks are often temporarily conferred for the duration of an operation or campaign. These ranks are then either removed, confirmed as permanent (the most common method of entry into the Imperial Army 'proper'), or forgotten about, leaving the officer in question in limbo, where he is drawing pay and issuing orders as his brevet rank but where that rank can be revoked at any time.

There is also the 'proper' way of achieving Army rank, which is to jump through a lot of hoops. A good example of this is the Sky Marshal rank, which grants authority over both Navy and Guard assets at the army/fleet level and requires potential candidates to have achieved both the rank of General in the Guard and the rank of Commodore in the Navy. This is to prove that the officer in question is qualified to command both ground and space forces at a strategic scale. Getting these qualifications is time-consuming but is nearly required for the loftiest heights of command; Sky Marshal is just one or two steps below Warmaster and Segmentum level command.

>>52037872
How does 'the Weeping Stars' sound? Very Dark Eldar-y and menacing.

>>52038159
Needs more edge. Like "Bleeding Stars" or "Star Bane" or something. Needs to sound like a menacing name that voidsmen whisper in hushed tones in the bar.

>>52038143
This is kind of confusing, although it does kind of fit with what we have about Eldar and human Guardsmen being commanded separately despite usually operating together, Tau forming regiments that despite functioning in the Army act separately, as well as Astartes and other specialist forces like Aspect Warriors doing their own thing.

It seems like from the description the Imperial Army does have soldiers, it's just that they are in one branch or the other.

>>52023772
The Ursh stuff or the Heldrake stuff?

>>52038292
Bleeding Stars works.

>>52038721
> the Imperial Army does have soldiers, it's just that they are in one branch or the other.
Pretty much. The basic idea is that past a certain rank, you stop belonging to one branch or another and become part of 'The Imperial Army' as a whole.

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Homo Sapiens Navigo is a sub species of humanity that was once a necessary cornerstone of the Imperium, and mankind's proliferation throughout the galaxy. From generation to generation, from their pivotal position in society, they have gathered wealth and power that outshine even planetary governors. However, at the dawn of the 42nd millenium, they are now at risk of losing it all through eons of mismanagement, greed, and complacency.

Due to their genetic nature, Navigators are organized by great houses, vast genetic lineages carefully recorded and kept track of to keep inbreeding at a minimum. By necessity, they can't have new blood. The result of a navigator and a normal human produces a human without the dubious blessing of navigator powers. They may carry an abundance of less than stellar physical traits inherited from their navigator parent, but none of the metaphysical traits, and they are not a carrier of any of the traits. Though there are a great deal of genetic markers associated with the navigators, none of them seem to activate the legendary third eye. It's speculated that the atypical warp presence of the navigators may bear some manner of information that is past on to the infant, and that it is only the combination of two such warp signatures that can produce a third, or perhaps it's some form of Dark Age of Technology copyright protection for navigator reproduction that can't be cracked. Whatever the case, the navigator houses have cornered the market on those able to guide the way through the warp, and supply is limited, much to the rest of the Imperium's discontent.

The foremost irritation is the arrogance of the navigators. Navigators have always held a very high opinion of themselves. They are necessary for any long range warp travel, and so have proliferated across the whole of human space, and reaped great wealth and prestige for their tasks. Somehow, the navigators manage to hold an arrogance beyond even their high station. To the irritation of those that revere the Throne and He That Sits Upon It, they consider themselves peers of the Emperor. In the minds of the majority of navigators, the parallels are obvious. The Emperor is a product of the Dark Age of Technology, so are the sub species Homo Sapiens Navigo. The Emperor has powers far beyond the normal man, and so too do the Navigators. The Emperor, by dint and right of these powers and his wisdom, rules. So, the Navigators deduce, must they. Most navigators take a benign attitude to this, content to live the pampered life of the ultra rich and enjoy generation after generation of accrued wealth. For them, the tedium of governance is something they should not suffer, but they take for granted that they shall be granted every luxury and consideration with none of the responsibility outside of ensuring vessels are guided safely through the warp.

Although many outside of the navigators criticize and deride their hedonistic attitude, it's worth remembering all navigators serve. From birth, navigators suffer from a host of genetic diseases and maladies as a side effect of the inbreeding necessary to preserve the powers that make warp travel possible. Their childhood is spent learning and memorizing star and warp charts for the routes they must work for the rest of their lives- charts which are notorious for failing to keep up with the realities of navigation. The demand for navigators has spiked severely as shipyards produce more vessels to respond to the various threats that besiege the Imperium.

Navigators are recorded to have been pressed into service at ages as young as twenty two, with only ten year's worth of training, and no practice on the safer routes closer to the Astronomicon (Which are generally crowded by the richer and more influential families unwilling to see their scions die on useless crusades). Navigators will spend years trapped in claustrophobic conditions, seeing horrors never meant to be comprehended by mortal minds, and painfully aware that the lives of thousands could be snuffed in an instant if they made a mistake.

Is it any wonder that the navigators have taken a bon vivant attitude? On every civilized world, the navigator houses have a presence, and they have a code: all navigators on shore leave are to be treated as family. Though later they may charge the navigator's actual house, when navigators go ashore they are denied nothing by their hosts. A celebration for living another day. These bacchanals can be truly hedonistic, at times even spilling beyond the navigator compounds to welcome any curious citizens in as alcohol, mind altering substances, sex, and other stranger diversions are offered freely. It's frowned upon to involve the common people however, as not everyone gets festive at such a gross display of wealth. If the arbites come calling, it can be truly expensive to clear up the matter, and if an Inquisitor's ire is roused, well, even the familial bonds of navigator houses have their limits.

In the face of the navigators flaunting their wealth, the fact that they consider themselves another species, the fact that they assume they're predestined to inherit their high status from birth rather than any deed, they rankle most of the rank and file.

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The Emperor, for his part finds the lack of obsequiousness among the navigators refreshing, but does not let that color his assessment of the Navis Nobilite: An antiquated aristocracy that should be (gently) set aside as soon as the technology allows it. In the Imperium as a whole, there is a tacit acknowledgement that the Navis Nobilite will soon come to an end, or face a great humbling. Either from the eldar opening up the webway, the geneticists finally cracking the navigator code and permitting mass production of them, or some new technology from the Tau or Mechanicus, everyone begrudgingly tolerate the Navis Nobilite, feeling that someday, they'll get their comeuppance, and slide into the waste bin of history.

This assessment may change with the latest Paternoval Envoy.

The current Paternova of the navigators is Lustran-Gibb of House Nostromo, a once minor house that managed through a stroke of luck involving a rogue trader, to rise in ascension and place one of their own in the prestigious position of Paternova, the head of the navigators. An outrage to the other navigator houses, but one settled through a series of (questionably) legal duels with the other heirs apparent. Lustran-Gibb, after killing his rivals, was content to remand himself to the Navigator Palace on Terra, where he spends the majority of his time in an aquarium with rare marine life imported from across the galaxy. In a move of reconciliation, Lustran-Gibb left the selection of the Paternoval Envoy to the houses for a vote, and then secluded himself with his strange menagerie.

The navigator houses were not used to this. After the diplomatic but bloody takeover, most of their leadership lay dead as the result of ritual combat. And rarely did a Paternova ever deign to ask others to decide things. They might have thought it weakness, had they not witnessed the Paternova kill most of his competition bare handed.The houses feared a trap, and so, appointed someone they wouldn't mind see dead.

Within an hour, the reply came back, blandly approving. Paternova Nostromo was at the moment fascinated at the prospect of recovering the porpoise of the distant past from genetic samples found in an ark dug up out of Catachan. He read Fedor's name once, and then dismissed it.

Paternova Nostromo was only interested in the position of Paternova as it allowed him power and money enough to pursue greater heights of marine biology. The competitors he slew, the bargains he struck, the pleas to the emperor and the quests he and his house had undertaken, were all bent to this purpose. Paternova Lustran-Gibb Nostromo, despite his heinous power both physical and mental, had no taste for politics. To his understanding, the Paternoval Envoy would take care of that. For the great navigator houses, they had made the greatest possible miscalculation. Because Fedor Jiao was very interested in politics.

Fedor Jiao, after reporting to Terra, undergoing the anointing, and taking the great oaths and suffering quietly through the vast ceremonies, immediately bypassed the great banquet set for him, and reported to the Imperial Senate. Once there, he sat quietly through an interminable meeting, accepted well wishes and congratulations, and patiently waited until the agenda was clear enough for him to provide a list of names and evidence of smuggling operations that House Garibald, House Strahovsky, and his own House Jiao were involved with throughout the Segmentum Tempestus. For Fedor Jiao, though bewildered by his sudden rise, bore no delusion that the great navigator houses were his friends. He immediately sought allies through the rest of the Imperium to protect him.

>>52038143
I'm seeing the rank of Warmaster replacing the old title of Primarch. When Macharian went on his crusade it was under the title and rank of Warmaster.

They are rare and temporary. Macharian was relieved of the title at the end of his crusade.

For the next thirty years, the Imperial Senate suddenly had a great ally in Fedor Jiao as he performed a great house cleaning of the Navis Nobilite. Corrupt navigators that had knowingly looked the other way when their members served on pirate ships found themselves raided by arbite agents. The more jaded navigators that required darker thrills to entertain themselves found themselves at the wrong end of an Inquisitor's bolt pistol. Even the Paternova Nostromo himself received a visit from a detachment of Adeptus Custodes, as the Navigator Palace was searched top to bottom for hidden Xenos Terribilis, with proof of warrant that the Paternova signed dismissively when Paternoval Envoy Jiao offered it.

For the navigators, it seemed that Paternoval Envoy Jiao was their worst enemy. Devoted to ripping out corruption by the root, and sending the Navis Nobilite as a whole into disarray. Assassination attempt after assassination attempt was mounted on Jiao, but none got through. He was well guarded by the highest levels of the Imperium, pleased that Jiao was humbling the once arrogant collection of mutants.

It was more than just cleaning house. Jiao was working to rein in the absurd wealth and influence of the Navis Nobilite houses, while also trying to improve the lot of the common navigator. Controversially, he designated the safest trade routes to be opened to all novice navigators so they could get up to speed before being thrown into the fire blindly. He forcibly dissolved several trade monopolies held by the greatest navigator houses, providing much needed reform for trade in the Imperium. There was chaos, but for once, the Navis Nobilite seemed to have a brighter future.

Then one day, the Emperor himself summoned Jiao. Jiao answered those summons, and the door shut behind him, barred by the Adeptus Custodes.

Two hours later the Emperor requested a different Paternoval Envoy, and ordered a closed doors meeting of the Senate Imperialis in the Imperial Throne Room.

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Envoy Jiao was diligent. He was devoted to mankind. To ending corruption throughout the whole of the Navis Nobilite, and to a greater extent, throughout the whole of the Imperium. He used to be like any other navigator, eager to live life to its fullest after the grueling journeys, so many lives in his hands, guiding through the warp. When he got to port, he feasted, he drank, he fucked, he enjoyed all he could of life like every other navigator.

But his other great love was astronomy. He had collections of charts, all kinds, dating back even to the days before the Imperium. He collected them, compared them, and sought to make his own grand map. As a young man, he had been frustrated at all the inaccuracies of star charts, and sought to correct those failings as an adult. It was an activity that brought him true joy, unlike the base pleasures of the flesh that were offered to him.

When the good ship Dauntless was attacked by corsairs, Fedor was certain he would die serving on his vessel. He felt the air slip away, heard the screams of the dying around him, and did his best to face death with dignity. But the corsairs were interested in him. When the eldar stormed the bridge, the lights were out- he saw flashes of power swords swinging, but nothing else when a hilt struck the side of his head, knocking him to the ground dazed, before a bag was put over his head.

When next he came to, he was in his sumptuous personal quarters. The terrible tang of burnt steel filled his nose- they had cut the whole of the section away, and attached it to their own ship. Arrayed in front of him were the star charts he had collected, and at the top of the heap, was a new map. Older than the others. It depicted the empire of the eldar, he realized belatedly, and the older extent of mankind. A message, Fedor concluded, but what for, he was not sure of.

He shortly realized afterwards that the corsairs had physically cut his quarters out of the Dauntless out, and placed it somewhere within their own vessel. He could leave, and wandered around in a daze about what he assumed was a cargo hold, with all manner of strange things. A necron plinth here, a caged Catachan Devil there, a crystallized fragment of some squid like entity there- Fedor was free to roam the hold, but whenever he tried to get beyond a further door, he found the way barred by veiled and robed eldar that refused to say anything. Crone, craftworld, exodite, dark, Fedor did not know what variety.

He slept forty three times there, not including his initial capture. He couldn't be certain, but he assumed that corresponded to the days in captivity. When he looked through his third eye, he realized he was not in the warp. He assumed the vessel he was on was in the webway.

The forty fourth time he awoke, he was somewhere else. He was before a great window sleeping on a smooth, tiled surface, the only company a chart, the one depicting the eldar empire at its grand extent. Behind him, a crowd of shrouded eldar, staring silently down at him. In the window before him, he saw the galaxy, as if from above, from a distance enough that he could see each end of the milky way. The awe swept all fear away from his mind, all thoughts except reverence. The bright collection there, that would be the halo stars, the stain there, the eye of terror, the dark divot, that would be the dark maw, and so on and so forth. And when he opened his third eye, let himself see the warp in all it's glory, he could see the shining pinprick of the golden throne, and the shadows of the collected psychic miasma of all life in the galaxy.

But then the view turned away. It slowly slipped away from the galaxy, and Fedor felt a bitter disappointment at that, for all there was out there was darkness. Physically and spiritually, there was nothing shining out beyond the galaxy.

And then Fedor realized something. There was nothing beyond the Milky Way. The ship continued pivoting- at the bottom of his view, there was still the distant light of his home galaxy, but outside of it, nothing but the dark. No orphan stars. No nebulae. No Andromeda. The darkness was closing in. And then, when he opened his third eye again, he felt the shadow passing over him.

At that moment, Fedor realized how alone he was in the universe. All he felt surrounding him, surmounting him, and washing over him was the Hive Mind. In that moment, though Fedor later denied it, fought the thought, tried desperately to disprove it, he felt a certainty. There was no more Andromeda. No more galactic neighbors. No more universe.

All there was was tyranids, and now, his home, as they descended to feed, as they had so many times before, on all the other galaxies that Fedor had once dreamed of seeing.

Fedor Jiao remembered little after that. He was dazed at the realization, and was led back to his quarters with little effort. He slept, and stared, and thought, a changed man. He could no longer enjoy life, in the face of the indescribable certainty that all he knew was doomed. When the corsairs released him in an escape pod, and he was picked up by the imperial navy, he didn't bother to relate the truth of the story. He simply said that he was ashamed to have survived.

When he was appointed paternoval envoy, at first he thought he would arrive at Terra and reject the choice. He would explain, humbly, that he was not capable of the great responsibility before him, but that he was glad of the chance to tell them of the nightmare he had seen, of the overwhelming dark that was to come.

But then Jiao saw the greatest navigators, and realized they were just as stupid and greedy as Jiao had been. And he decided that he would do his best to save the Imperium.

And he did great things. He made enemies. Lived boldly. Pulled out corruption by the root. But his every deed, he set against the overwhelming darkness he had seen, and he thought how little of a difference he was making. The galaxy was a thimble of light in an ocean of darkness. All the Imperium's work was for naught. Mathematically speaking, it was an impossibility. If the tyranids had already consumed Andromeda, and who knows what else, they had more mass than the Imperium could ever produce of bullets, missiles, lasers, bombs, and swords. Victory was impossible.

Unless he did something unthinkable.

In greatest secrecy, he hired a crew, brought a spare navigator, and personally guided a sword class frigate to a distant point of space he'd heard only rumors about. His crew trusted him, hand picked to be ones that were starstruck by the reputation of the heroic corruption fighter. They didn't question why he was so far from civilization, operating under radio silence.

They came to an asteroid, and Paternoval Envoy Jiao disembarked with a shuttle alone, and told the spare navigator to return to imperial space, and leave him behind. The ship navigated to a safe range to warp jump out. An hour later, Paternoval Envoy Jiao saw a distant explosion. He wasn't surprised. Soon after that, the pirates surrounded him, on their void suits the bleak marks of dark gods showing them for chaos corrupted.

Jiao had privately hoped they would break the deal. See him torn apart, and fed to their vile daemons. But they held. They took him to their captain, the legendary and loathsome Azariah Kyras, who was amused at their guest. He in turn took Jiao to a local pirate base operated by Dark Eldar. And there, on the base called Odom, with the aid of a captive Crone Eldar oracle, Jiao contacted the daemon of Nurgle called Ulkair with a plea.

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The daemon was pleased that Jiao saw the futility of resisting the tyranids conventionally. Ulkair jovially explained that Father Nurgle had also been worried. In his great cauldron, Father Nurgle had been brewing something up to get rid of this oversized insect infestation. In fact, it was with the aid of beloved Isha that Father Nurgle had been making this. Those tyranids were so quick to adapt after all. With Isha on hand to test his poxes upon, Nurgle could be sure to make something real nice and lethal so the tyranids would shrivel and die before they spoiled all the fun in the galaxy.

But then the humans and eldar had to go and take Isha away. Which made Father Nurgle very sad. He could barely even cook up new plagues now, he was so depressed. Without company, he just couldn't get into the spirit of plague making. Everything he made nowadays seemed so trite. The past twelve epidemics he cooked up were all just the same old bursting boils disease he'd done last year. His heart wasn't in it any more.

Ulkair at this point offered the Paternoval Envoy a deal. Nurgle knew that a mere human couldn't spirit away a goddess. But, that avatar of hers could do a fine substitute. A simple trade. A plague for the tyranids, for the avatar of Isha. Save the galaxy, all for a girl. Who could turn that bargain down? Nurgle wouldn't even infect Jiao, though he honestly should. Wouldn't touch a hair on his head. All he had to do was go back. Make sure it would happen. And the bugs would come down with one hell of a case of the sniffles.

The Paternoval Envoy was silent. Ulkair smiled. That was enough for him. With a corrosive wave of his hand, Ulkair instructed Kyras to make sure that the Paternoval Envoy got back, safe and sound.

When the Paternoval Envoy made his way back to civilized space, he was picked up by an imperial patrol. They asked no questions of the great Paternoval Envoy, figuring he had been doing something of great import in his fight against corruption. On the trip back to Terra, they seemed happy, chipper, and praised him for all he had done. Jiao wondered if maybe no one had noticed. He was certain that, despite all his precautions they wouldn't be enough. He almost relaxed on the journey home, convinced he could fight his inner struggle in peace and alone.


It was only when he touched foot on Terra, and saw the Adeptus Custodes waiting at the space port that he found himself back in reality. They said nothing, simply putting out their weapons. Jiao was just as silent, and allowed himself to be escorted to the Imperial Palace on the Emperor's summons. The Emperor already knew of his errant servant, and where he'd been.

He entered the throne room.

Two hours later, Paternoval Envoy Fedor Jiao still hasn't emerged. But the Emperor has requested a new Envoy be appointed. And that an emergency session of the Senate Imperialis be held.

>I'll leave it up to you guys beyond that.

>>52040343
It's masterful writefaggatory. Really shows the insidious nature of Nurgle and the way ibn which a man, with one well meaning decision after another, can become what he hates.

My only gripe is that in one of the older threads it was mentioned that new blood could be brought into the Navigator bloodlines and there was a Bene Jesuit style branch of the Sororitas dedicated to doing just that. Although it was incredibly hard and took generations to pull off.

Navigator + Human = Weak Human

Weak Human + Navigator = Weak Human with a few Navigator traits.

2nd Gen Weak Human + Navigator = 50/50. You either get another Weak Human with more navigator traits or you get a Weak Navigator. Weak Navigators can navigate but they aren't very good compared to the pure breeds.

Weak Navigator + Navigator = Finally getting an average capability Navigator.

>>52040343
Very good.

>>52040343
Excellent stuff, keep it up

>>52040250
Machairius was born and did his crusade much earlier in this timeline I think. IIRC, his crusade was to go and reclaim all the ground that was lost during the War of the Beast as well as reign in the fairweather systems like Vostroya that tried to abandon the Imperium, since the Imperium isn't hemmoraghing worlds as bad as in canon and that was the point where the Imperium needed to reclaim the most ground.

>>52042875
But that would just be the same thing as the Scouring/Great Hunt/Reconquista/whatever we're calling it, and you'd have actual primarchs still around. If we want Macharius to be a primarch-like figure in an age when they're gone, it should be either around the Emperor's coronation, when only 3 are left and they're all super old and decrepit, or after M38, when the last primarch Ferrus Manus dies.

>>52043149
It has been written in the Mortarian fluff that the tomb of Mortarion is on the planet Machairius' Rest. His failing body finally crapped out at the end of the crusade.

It is possible, even probable, that the aging Morty was there in a mostly advisory capacity being one of a dwindling handful of people who had actually done this shit before.

Primarchs belonged to a different era and it was all right and well that the title died out. But the Imperium would occasionally still have the need for something like a Primarch but more temporary. Thus the title of Warmaster.

The Machairius Crusade would have been some time after the WotB if only because the Imperium wouldn't have been able to fund a huge endeavour like that in it's half broken state. And Morty died of old age at the end of it all.

>In this dark age the good die young
- unofficial carving on Mortarions tombstone.

>>52043666
...and only the young die well?

>>52041135
Still to easy. It would result in a navigator stud going full Genghis Khan and swapping daughters with another Navigator stud to further breed a new army of Navigators.

I would have it so that the Navigator has to be the mother for there to be any hope of the third eye being developed. Nobody has been able to figure out why this is the case but there it is.

No attempts to grow navigators in jars has been successful.

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>>51972949

>>52043666
Still, Morty being a Thunder Warrior means he wouldn't have lasted much longer than Perty (who I think we said died in M32 or 33), especially since Morty was on he front lines more than Perty and probably had more wear and tear in his body. To me this feels too early for Macharius - the primarchs are still too present and fresh in everyone's mind for Macharius to properly stand out.

To me, Macharius would work well right after the Age of Apostasy. The Vandire mess is over and the Emperor has been crowned, and as the Imperium starts looking outwards again a brilliant man rises to lead its armies. (Some connection to Thor?) I could see Emps, Vulkan, and Magnus sitting around a fireplace, reminiscing about how Macharius reminds them of a young Lion, with his genius and idealism (though much better people skills), with maybe a dash of Guilliman's eye for detail and several dashes of Mortarion's relentlessness and refusal to stop marching to war.

>>52044859
Late M33 would give the Imperium about 2,000 years to recover from the WotB. They have the entirety of The Roman Empire to get shit fixed.

Also Perty got broken the fuck down by the Pox Dok and rebuilt. That probably wasn't too good for long term health.

Also by that time Horus, Perty, Sangy, Angron, Curze and Dorn were dead and Lion was in a coma. The surviving primarchs were also either spread out or lessened by then.

>>52040343
Have you added this to the 1d4chan page?

>>52045072
Yeah, that's true, and I suppose by the same token all the baseline human primarchs except Magnus would have aged to death, since rejuvenats can only take you so far.

Still, I feel a later Macharius works better for the reasons I mentioned above. I think in canon he's around in early M41.

We can leave it open for now and see if anyone else chimes in with a preference or opinion.

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>>52040343
I really like it, for several reasons

1) It shows that despite their general behavior the Navigators aren’t identical and monolithic in personality. The Navigators may have a reputation for being jerks, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t still good people among them.
2) It gives the Emperor a reason to want to get rid of the Navigators beyond “purge the mutant”. If the Navigators were selflessly interested in helping the Imperium navigate even after they were no longer strictly needed (that star chart knowledge would be useful even without a third eye) it would be a different story, but they’re just so damn arrogant it’s easier to just slowly phase them out.
3) It shows how easily someone with the best of intentions can end up falling to Chaos
4) It shows just how big the stakes with the tyranids are

The tyranids ate Andromeda
The tyranids ATE ANDROMEDA
Mfw

However, there were a few things that stood out to me (see next post):

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>>52040343
>>52047042

1) What’s up with the corsairs? Cronedar in disguise? Hired by the Cronedar? It seems the whole purpose of bringing Jiao there was to plant the seeds of doubt in his mind to lead him to the bargain with Chaos.

1b) Additionally, did the tyranids literally eat the entire local cluster, or is that just exaggeration by the corsairs? Because if that’s the case, how did the tyranids eat every other galaxy first and not seem to notice the giant intergalactic rave that is the warp? Is the Imperium’s last ditch plan of “fuck this galaxy, we’re going to doomed to fail from the beginning?

2) The astronomy nerd in me is pointing out the tyranids are coming from the wrong direction to have last eaten the Andromeda galaxy. Someone online figured out is the nearest galaxy in the direction the tyranids are coming from is the eloquently named NGC 1023 cluster, meaning the tyranids have been performing multiple, simultaneous, and devastating deep-strikes in the local galactic cluster. If the tyranids were coming straight from Andromeda, they would be coming from the galactic northeast, not the southeast as they have been. However,

3) How the hell did Jiao ever think he was going to kidnap Macha/Isha? Isha may be the goddess of flowers and fertility, but she’s still a goddess. It took Nurgle himself to manhandle her last time, and that time she didn’t have a literal demigod and the army of a galaxy-spanning empire to protect her. Is it just a case of the Warp makes you not think things out?

4) Is it common knowledge that the Paternova is a fish-monster? I thought the Navigators were still trying to keep that on the down-low? The navigators may just be a strain of abhuman with a funky lifecycle and a tendency to get mutations due to Warp exposure, but in the Imperium the Navigators’ weird lifecycle would make a lot of people think mutant despite them being abhumans because most abhumans don’t keep mutating like they do.

>>52047091
Derped, meant to say however I agree with saying the tyranids ate Andromeda is a much more poignant statement that gets a reaction out of readers than the tyranids ate NGC 1023.

>>52044859
This is Mortarion we're talking about though. Inhuman endurance and just plain too stubborn to die easily. Also a late stage Thunder Warrior, which means he was much more stable than Angron. Of course, all of the primarchs except the long-lived ones (Vulkan, Ferrus, and Magnus) seem to have disappeared by the end of M33.

>>52045072
Guilliman and Lorgar were dead as well.

>>52046468
An M41 Machairius would not work in this timeline. In vanilla, the Imperium had been hemmoraghing worlds for years due to secession, rebellion, and the like. Machairius said “fuck this” and started his crusade to take back as many worlds as possible. The Imperium has not lost as many worlds here due to incompetence, and most of the worlds that are lost are ones that had to be Exterminatus-ed or fell to the Orks or the like.

>>52047091
>Myserious abductors
The corsairs I left open ended, primarily for plot seeds. Although the most likely possibility is that they were cronedar, or pawns of cronedar that wanted to ensure the fated piece would fall to chaos, it might be that some other hand is at play here. I didn't want to definitively put this in one court or another because the Paternoval Envoy wouldn't know, and because I didn't know if that would fit the Cronedar standard operating procedure.

>Tyranids eating local cluster
Yeahhhhh, chalk that up to evil manipulations AKA the author only took the briefest look at local astronomy, got frustrated that no other galaxy had a direct name like "Andromeda" and just shat something out because he'd been sitting on this idea for a long ass time. I'll look into it further, but for now let's assume that the Tyranids are chewing on the local cluster and... I need to come up with a suitably pseudo-gothic name for a galaxy that isn't Andromeda.

>Jiao's "Plan"
Jiao didn't have a plan. Ulkair knew that Jiao was never going to have the slightest chance to even touch a hair on the Avatar of Isha's head. But he knew Jiao would tell the Imperial Senate of Ulkair's offer. Hence why he didn't give Jiao any 'gifts.' The entire point of Jiao's visit was so that he'd go back to the Imperium and tell someone. Either the Emperor would remove Jiao before he set foot on Terra, thus removing a genuine force for good in the Navis Nobilite and sending the already unsettled bureaucracy of Navigators into a full scale civil war as the Great Houses tried to reclaim 'the good old days' at one another's expense, or he'd let Jiao return to Terra, and let him speak, inflaming the already apocalyptic mood in the Imperium.

It's quite possible that Jiao's visit to see the galaxy was meant to sow the seeds of panic, but unfortunately (For Chaos) Jiao kept his mouth shut and just worked to fix the Navis Nobilite, up until he considered the Nurgle Option.

>>52047382
>>52047091
>Paternova Fish Monsterdom
Oh yeah, the general public don't get to know that. Even in the more tolerant Nobledark Imperium, people would put two and two together with the fact that people that are supposed to peer through the warp getting mutations meant bad things. Which partially explains why Jiao had so much power- not only was the Paternova not interested in ruling, he couldn't very well walk into the Senate and denounce his envoy because he looks like the creature from the black lagoon.

I presume that the higher levels of the Imperium are aware of the culmination of Homo Sapiens Navigo life cycle, but there is a general agreement that it should be kept, if not secret, not widely proliferated among the masses. Considering how few people on a galactic scale travel via the warp, much less would ever meet a navigator (The 'normal' ship guiding navigators that is, not their bizarre elders) it's not hard to keep the knowledge quiet.

It's like people learning how the septic treatment plant in their city works. It's IMPORTANT, sure, and if someone really wanted to go find out, they could, but most people are content to leave it alone and let it do its own thing.

>>52045740
Not, not yet. I wasn't sure how it would be taken. If there are no objections in the thread, I can add it later.

>>52041135
>Navigator breeding

I wasn't aware of that. I was going off of the Lexicanum article about it. I was going to bullshit something about parallel genetics involving the warp and it being involved, but I'll leave that alone for now. I'll work that in on my second run on this.

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>>52047414
Given the relative lack of secrecy and the more prominent AdBio it's possible that the mutations can be managed if not slowed or controlled.

Sure you're going to end up as a fish looking Dagonite but at least you can still have some quality of life and retain mental facilities. Just don't go out in public.

>>52047688
That would make sense to me. Perhaps some rather traditionalist/xenophobic sorts of navigators would insist on living 'natural' and refuse these treatments, but every great house of note forces these genetic treatments. They understand the value of PR. Which also leads to an interesting situation where the accrued wealth of the Navis Nobilite patronizes a lot of AdBio work. Vanity is a great motivator. This has led to a lot of crude jokes about struggling Adeptus Biologicus members finding means of funding outside of grants by appealing to the worst natures of navigators, but for the most part there is some very good work being done to address the various genetic maladies in the inbred navigator gene pool.

There was one avenue of research among the Adeptus Biologicus that was put to an end quickly however. The inability to directly produce navigators is something still being worked on, but one geneticist wondered about the possibility of grafting the third eye directly, and testing the limits of navigator regeneration...

Due to the ethical implications, the idea never extended beyond a paper. At least officially.

A little non-human stuff.
With the general theme of actual competence, I figure there should be some Necron who've realized that the "reverse biotransference" goal is irrational and driven by butthurt towards C'tan.

Zu'se is, or was, a Necron cryptek. A "dust weaver" meaning specialist in nanotech of all kinds.
His Lord had "acquired" some blanks and tasked the cryptek to research them and how they might be used.
After some research and cross reference with information extracted from Eldar captives Zu'se came to a realization: 1) blanks were soulless 2) blanks were alive. Therefore having a soul was not mandatory to being alive.
All the stuff about reversing biotransference was bullshit. If any Necron wanted to be touchy-feely again, they just needed to put better covers, sensors and actuators on their frames.

The cryptek acted on the concept by "hacking" his own body. Using nanotech to make it quasi-biological. With somewhat animalistic appearance to drive the point home.
As could be expected, his masters did not agree - bound as they were by hierarchies and Silent Kings dictates.

So Zu'se went rogue and now travels the galaxy. Working to refine and show off the possibility of (partially) technological life by seeking out small, undefended population of lesser races and "upgrading" them - generally with nanotech and/or implants.
Objectively, most upgrades really are an improvement in at least some areas. But the cryptek has no interest in negotiation and no concept of psychological damage, which makes things less than pleasant.

While some have joined him, most other Necron consider Zu'se to be: 1) completely insane 2) not their problem.
A view probably best articulated by Trazyn who called Zu'ses group "fluffy flayers".

>>52047382
Well, you certainly got the intended reaction out of me with Andromeda.

>Ulkair's plan
Wow. That's a damn clever plan.

>>52047414
It does sound like it's kind of like Oscar's Man of Gold status. There are people who know about it, but it's either people who don't care (most of the higher-ups in the Imperial government) or want to exploit it for their own use (Illuminati).

I think it was mentioned that the Navigator are still waging their low-key clan feuds behind the Imperium's back, but they still gang up on anyone who tries to make the Elders public knowledge.

On an unrelated note, it was said the Navigator houses have been setting up shop in the Jovian orbitals.

>>52041135
Which thread was this? I thought the selective breeding by the Sororitas was so you didn't get inbreeding from so many planetary nobles having Jubblowski as a great-great grandmother? Or something like that.

>>52048522
I think there is a difference between being a Necron and being a blank, but it is probably due to sensory deprivation. In canon it was mentioned the Silent King felt dead inside after the biotransferrence. We also have the Void Dragon realizing he done fucked up (with some help from Ceggers) when the Necrons stopped being so lively. The idea sounds good though.

Also, this thread needs to be archived on suptg.

>>52048812
Yeah, I picked Andromeda since I thought that would be the biggest "SHIT GETS REAL" in as short a span as possible. In theory I could talk about UGC 4879 and describe why it being missing is a Very Big Deal, but I was kind of feeling that the thing was getting overlong anyway.

I did not know about the other details regarding the navigators. I'll look deeper into that, and go over old threads so I can properly revise the navigator info before it's put up on 1d4chan.

But now I have an essay to write.

So, would the emperor kill Fedor Jiao? Or what?

>>52049700
Since the author said he wasn't physically corrupted, it seems one of the Inquisition's favorite tricks would work well here: mind wipe of all memories related to Chaos and extensive purity tests. After all, he wasn't too far gone and could still be very useful, though as the emergency session of the Senatorum Imperialis indicates he won't be coming back as Envoy.

>>52049871
Oh. That makes it simple.

>>52049540
One other thing to consider is that the entry on the Navigators and Fedor Jiao could easily be split into separate entries in the "Notable People" and "Forces of the Imperium" sections, if you want.

Rescued from page 10

Archived on suptg

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/51972949/

>>52044859
>>52045072
>>52047292
>>52046468

I had an idea for Machairius a while back, which would have worked well for a post-M33 Machairius but I never brought it up since it appeared that the Machairian Crusade happened shortly after the War of the Beast in this timeline.

Machairius is supposed to literally be based on Alexander the Great, right? So why not go whole hog with it, take the bad with the good. Machairius was a military mastermind, able to accomplish more in a few years than most commanders would be able to in lifetimes. Even those who felt the title of primarch belonged to a different era agreed that Machairius’ military accomplishments were the equal of the primarchs. So why was Machairius not hailed as the beginnings of a second coming of an age of primarchs?

Simply put, he couldn’t handle himself outside of war. He was a brilliant military genius, but when he wasn’t campaigning he had a bad drinking habit and generally made a boor of himself in public. All of the primarchs could function outside of war. Even Dorn could occupy himself during peacetime, if you substituted “relaxing” with “fortifying this position”. There were also rumors he was not too fond of the Exodite Eldar and the Maiden Worlds, feeling that the worlds should be confiscated as they were otherwise being wasted and the Exodites weren’t pulling their weight, something that other parts of the Imperium were afraid was going to lead to civil war.

Think of a cross between Alexander the Great and Douglas MacArthur. Brilliant military tactician, but fell apart when not in combat (like Alexander) and had a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease and picking more fights than he could hope to win.

In this timeline, Machairius died due to actual misfortune, as opposed to High Lord assassination. Like everyone else, the higher-ups in the Imperial government mourned, though they felt a little guilty over the fact that they felt like they had just dodged a bullet.

>>52054016
>All of the primarchs could function outside of war.
Counterpoint: Konrad Kurze.

>>52054049
Welllllll, his definition of war was pretty stretched. He thought he was always at war. When some people say "we're gonna wage a war on poverty," Kurze is the one that leads an assault on the slums to literally wage a war on poverty.

>>52054049
>>52054460
>Counterpoint: Konrad Kurze.

Good point. Though wasn't it mentioned that he spent most of his down time terrifying Nostramo into shape? He at least had something to do that wasn't crusading all the time.

Still laughing at Curze's "War on Poverty".

>>52054016
It's good. Adds character.

>>52054460
>countless gangsters killed or vanished
>thousands of pimps and con-men gutted
>hundreds of major slumlords tortured to death
Kruze reports the success of terror campaign techniques in the war on poverty. The century long rehabilitation of the planet's resulting "phobocracy", as detailed in the written works of Kruze's successor, was far more costly and slow than Kruze's initial thirty day campaign.

>>52056184
Curze was not a man for civilized times. To his credit he knew this.

Also his awfulness worked, that's probably the saddest part of it all.

>>52048812
Jubblowski was adopted by the sororitas as part of a project to prevent inbreeding because the aristocracies were getting increasingly insular and needed fresh blood.

This has had some success in that there are less deformities and genuine cases of retardation in the high ups but it also can't be denied that there are an increasing number of planets in the Cadian and near-Cadian sectors who's rulers have purple eyes, so it may only have deferred the problem for a few more generations.

I think the whole navigator breeding thing was in the 3rd or 4th thread. It may or may not have been the same thread that suggested that the Navigators had abandoned Earth in favour of the Jovian Orbitals due to Old Earth getting too "clean" for their liking.

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With the possible extension in Navigator elder sanity, the relatively more tolerant attitude towards physical deviation, moving shop to the Jovian Orbitals and AdBio attention it could be seen that elder navigators remain active for longer.

The mutations generally result in them looking like a cross between a Stage 2 Guild Navigator from Dune (possibly depicted by H.R. Giger) and a citizen of Innsmouth when the fish genes start to kick in but at least the mutations are more stable now and can be managed. No more constant crippling agony due to body changing shape unstably and no more brain functioning erratically.

Down side is that there is still no cure. The more inbred Navigators also have it worse on the mutations, hence the constant drive to keep getting new blood in to the houses even if it does take the female navigators out of action for the duration of the pregnancy and takes a minimum of 4 generations to produce anything useful.

The high nobility of the Imperium could be quite used to seeing navigator elders on state business, or at least not freak out too hard about their weirdness. Xeno citizens would either just assume that they are human in the same way that the Nova Beastmen are human (because humans are weird) or just assume that they are another type of xeno the Imperium met before them. Either way the Imperium is full of weird, this is not unexpected for them.

Life span for Navigators should be longer than a baseline human. Baring illness or injury possibly as high as 400 years. With rejuvenant drugs and shit this can be extended to 750 years, or the same as the upper limit on baseline humans. Should be higher but the treatments were made for baseliners and the Navigators are weird on ever scale of their biology so they tend not to be too compatible with that shit.

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>>52057590
The rejuvenant drugs don't actually do anything to slow down or prevent the onset of the mutations as the mutations are not a sign of aging. If anything it allows an individual longer to live so that they can become more inhuman.

It's also worth noting that there is a school of thought in the AdBio that their inherent longevity is a direct result of the mutations and that outward signs of aging mostly only resemble getting old at an aesthetic level. Nevigators don't in fact get old, they just get more navigatory.

Presumably if one lived to be an estimated 1,200 year old they would have reached the 100% mutation mark, no longer have any human remnants in their biology and would be an entirely new species. Sadly only the medical knowledge of the Dark Age would be enough to get them to last that long.

They also tend to reject cybernetics. All attempts to find a way around this have failed.

Examination of the genes found exclusively in Navigator has proved confusing. They are mostly human, hence the ability to interbreed. A few of the genes are 100% artificial and found only in one other organism Emperor Oscar and some of the more odd genes seem to have been grafted from an as of yet undiscovered xeno organism.

The xeno genes also seem to spread in a manner not compliant with normal biology. If left to their own devices in laboratory conditions they subsume and transform the rest of the DNA in whatever cell they are in. They do not change it into copies of themselves but into what is presumably the rest of the code from the species they were extracted from. This is conventionally impossible, but there it is.

Attempts to cultivate and grow the cell samples into a viable organism have thus far failed.

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>>52058115
Suggestion of introducing the fully mutated sample into a living Navigator to create a "pure" navigator without any human have been rejected by unanimous vote of the House Elders. Possibly they know what the creature would be or they may have some other reason. Possibly they just don't want to break the exclusivity on their bloodlines.

It is possible, even probable, that the Navigators would gradually become these strange xenos if they lived long enough. Although the nature of these xenos is unknown besides having an extremely close connection to the warp and possibly being aquatic or having originally evolved in an at least semi-aquatic environment. Nemensor Zandrek once remarked that Navigators seemed familiar to him but he couldn't remember why. They made him feel slightly angry, but not at them, but he couldn't remember who. It's quite vexing say what..

>>52057590
Don't the subordinate Navigators go crazy and try to kill each other in the case of the death of the Paternova?

Regardless, any dark secrets about the Navigator's history might be useful leverage for Oscar to get them to step down. He doesn't have to actually use this information, but just imply that he could (though knowing the Navigators this would just get them to try and kill Oscar).

>>52058881
The whole THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! Thing might be either a biological compulsion due to their oddity or it could be cultural. Or a bit of both.

>>52058176
>>52058115
>>52057590
Spliced with something
>warp attuned
>semi-aquatic
>Xeon
>genes defy conventional biology

Did the Dark Age humans get their grubby mits on fragments of Old One DNA?

Bump

>>52048812

> sensory deprivation

Necron have surely lost the sense of taste and probably smell. Touch is likely limited as well.
But the way to counter that is by adding more and better sensors. Not by seeking some miracle that would turn them back into cancerous wretches.
That is Zu'ses main insight: the only way out is through.

I imagine some Necron might take an alternative approach and adopt a purely virtual, bodiless existence. Where they can be as living as the simulation allows. But such groups would be completely self sufficient and unnoticeable to the rest of the galaxy - so not interesting to write about.

> Void Dragon

What I think offended Void Dragon was not the change to Necron(tyr) bodies, but what was done to their minds. Lobotomy for most and control protocols for others. He wants followers who think, learn, argue, can be trolled

>>52060139
>Old One DNA

Would explain the arrogance.

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So that what we are going with for the Navigators? Cultivated abhumans with a mixture of artificial genes and Old One fragments?

I have no problem with that. Even better considering that the oly people left who would recognize an Old One are the C'tan and Be'lakor. Even the last generation of Necrons had no personal experience with the Old Ones and if Nemensor Zandrek is actually recognizing something correctly it's only from old pictures in what must at the time have been a book on ancient lore.

In Vanilla the only things known about the Old Ones for sure is Cold Blooded (although that might have been figurative), highly psychic and quite clever. It's not inconceivable that they were psycic amphibians/fish.

But it does beg the question where the Dark Age humans got the DNA from. Preserved corpse or living specimen? Only one of their kind left active is Be'lakor but he is more warp than frog now. The C'tan? why would they want to see anything of their old nemesis return? I would suggest it remain an in-universe mystery.

>>52062966
I think the Old Ones were reptilian. Or were they? Lore is super ambiguous, and I've also heard them described as toad-like. Especially since they are supposed to be the 40k's Slann.

Maybe something like a sapient Eryops, rough skinned and capable of surviving on land but still semi-aquatic and has to return to the water to reproduce. Or something that can't easily be classified as fish-like, amphibian-like, or reptilian. Probably leave it as an in-universe mystery.

Didn't we also have DaoT humanity getting some of their stuff by studying scraps of Necrodermis, or was that decided to be non-canon. I remember the parts that had Oscar conscious during the Age of Strife were non-canon, but we liked the idea of how the Men of Gold were created.

>>52063266
Did the Dark Age humans know about the C'tan?

I always assumed that the Void Dragon was discovered towards the end of the Age of Strife, although I can't honestly remember what got me to that conclusion.

>>52054016
Was Alexander the Great not great during peace time? I thought by most accounts he was a pretty good ruler. McArthur I get, the guy was an asshat with a huge ego.

I think the broader reason there hasn't been another age of primarchs is that it really was a one time combination of intensely talented people born in a close concentration plus a grand historical stage to grow into their potential. If we go with one of 40k's major aspects of "historical events in spehss," it seems a bit like the American Revolution, which was one of history's great concentration of brilliant political and legal minds plus grand historical events. (Not trying to be a flag-waving burgerfat, I promise)

>Enter Clearance
>Password: ************************
>Verifying...
>Commencing biometric scan...
>Verified. Welcome, Inquisitor.
>Opening file...

OPERATION: YELLOW EYE SEAGULL (Wobbly Wombat 17)
SOURCE: Ordo Xenos, Diviso Sepulchrum, Deep Field Recon Squadron 17
Author: Interrogator PURRING VIOLET

Arrived and departed from IGC-137-Oscar-Romeo-Dalet-2828 without incident, extracting roughly two weeks before the Shadow in the Warp fell over the system. As in the previous sixteen systems, all traces of life above crustal microbes have been eliminated, primarily by orbital bombardment with some remaining traces of nanoweapons. As before, all indicators point towards Necron responsibility, of a fleet numbering about 200 vessels. [file attached: forensic analysis, orbital bombardment, weapon types and distribution] By the looks of things, we arrived just hours after they left. Maybe in the next system we'll get to see them in action. Progression of the age of the damage indicates the extermination fleet is moving via Dolmen gate, with no inertialess-equipped vessels. [file attached: forensic analysis, orbital bombardment, dating techniques] Maybe we'll catch them in the act in the next system.
At this point, all evidence is pointing towards the Necrons trying their own variation of the Kryptmann line, exterminating worlds in the Tyranids' path.
On the one hand, perhaps we can feel grateful that the Necrons are weakening the Tyranids for us. On the other hand... analysis of atmospheric composition indicates that this planet likely had a pre-space industrial/atomic civilization. [file attached: forensic analysis, atmospheric composition] They are either all dead now, or were scooped up en masse for biotransference experiments.
Next system is IGC-137-Oscar-Romeo-Gimel-2124. Long range telescope observation shows indications of life on the second planet; maybe that will still be true by the time we get there.
>End file

>>52064269
>Opening file...
OPERATION: YELLOW EYE SEAGULL (Solar Serpent 2)
SOURCE: Ordo Xenos, Divisio Sepulchrum, HEADSTONE KING
AUTHOR: Inquisitor SUNSET STABERINDE
Deeper analysis of Wobbly Wombat reports only partially support initial conclusions that Necrons are enacting a Kryptmann Line strategy. Pattern and placement of sterilized systems are not consistent with attempts to weaken the Tyranids before a killing blow. Paths are left through sterilized zones leading away from Necron space. Conclusion is that Necrons are attempting to herd Tyranid fleets away from Tomb-Worlds while dealing as little damage to them as possible. Further conclusion: the Necrons are attempting to use the Tyranids as a weapon against the rest of the galaxy.
This is consistent with known psychology of the Silent King. Silent Empire long-term goals involve extermination of all life throughout galaxy. The Silent Empire does not currently have the power to do so. (See SCARLET SPINE SEAGULL reports for detail on Necron power projection) The Tyranids likely do. Necrons are in excellent condition to survive Tyranid onslaught; necrodermis indigestible, recall/repair mechanisms allow extreme attrition tactics, if all else fails they can clear the life off their tomb-worlds and return to stasis. Tyranids likely to depart after scouring galaxy of all life, leaving Necrons as sole owners. In short, Tyranid victory serves the Silent King's interests.
Further conclusions: Necrons may undertake further action against attempts to halt Tyranid advance. Sabotage of various kinds or direct naval or ground action against Imperium strongholds. Such actions should be anticipated and warded against before they actually occur; however, specific policy suggestions in this area are beyond the scope of this report.
>End file

Thoughts?

>>52064287
It's extremely grim, just what the setting needs and it shows the Silent King up for the douchebag that he is.

Also the Inquisition's file naming tradition is well noted.

>>52064269
>>52064287
Most excellent. I love that my codenames bit is getting used.

>>52064189
No, he wasn't. Alexander developed a huge drinking problem after his men refused to march further into India, and he ended up killing one of his best friends, Cleitus the Black, in a drunken rage (to be fair, Cleitus kind of provoked him by comparing him negatively to his father). Even a few months before his death, he was planning yet another military campaign, this time in Arabia.

Like Erebus in this timeline, he was told from birth he was supposed to accomplish great things, and when they didn't happen he just...broke. He wasn't used to not winning.

>>52063883
Yeah, the Void Dragon fluff says the Dragon was only discovered by the proto-AdMech at the end of the Martian Civil War. VD says he's been watching humans on Mars but was not able to make contact until now. Vanilla lore is less clear, but it's clear that DaoT humans at large didn't know of the Void Dragon (I think due to Emperor).

I think the Imperium has generally had to learn about the C'tan the hard way in this timeline. They know the C'tan existed from the Eldar, but the fact that the C'tan shards are still around and a threat to the Imperium they had to figure out on their own. Silent King, for example, neglected to tell the Imperium that shards of the Deciever and Nightbringer were loose in their Imperium out of a combination of disinterest and saving face (and just plain not telling the Emperor things).

>>52064440
As the Laundry series proved, existential horror and baroque, slightly-ridiculous codenames are two great tastes that go great together.

>>52058115
>Oscar
>DNA
Did we ever decide on what Oscar actually was? I know we have
>Artificial life form
>Superhuman physically and psychically, but not to the extent that Vanilla Emps was
>On the other hand, less of a raging fedora autist than his counterpart, too.
>DaoT relic
>Found and brought back to Terawatt Clan by Malcador (who he ended up seeing as a ???)
But that's all history - do we know what he actually is? Mechanical AI construct? Gen-enged superhuman? Overly-politicised movie award?

>>52064269
>>52064287
I fucking love everything about this - the opening, the reveal, the overall tone, the idea of it overall.

>>52065344
Man of Gold. Dark Age of Technology genetically engineered human. Debatable as to whether you would call him a biological A.I., a human with some extra bits added, or somewhere in between. In Oscar's mind he leans towards the biological A.I. due to his upbringing by Malcador (though Malcador apparently regretted how hard he pushed this late in life), whereas the Imperium sees him as just an in-vitro human with some genetic engineering. Most likely both are right and both are wrong to some degree. Still a person, even if he has trouble thinking of himself in those terms.

Has DNA, as part of the Astartes upgrades were reverse engineered from his own genome. Hence the male-only thing, even after 10,000 years. It would take legions of gene-wrights working centuries to create a sexless geneseed, which would be a waste of Imperial manpower and time.

At least, that's the gist I've been getting.

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Had an idea for Medusa in this timeline. Medusa in canon is described as an extremely tectonically active world, one where mountain ranges and other landmarks rise and fall on a whim and people have to live in giant land crawlers just to survive. However, this always seemed too similar to Fenris or Nocturne for me, and IIRC there are a lot of Death Worlds where there are constant tectonic shifts reorganizing the landscape.

I thought this might work better given Medusa's importance to the Mechanicus and the Iron Hands (who are part of the AdMech in this timeline).

http://pastebin.com/r9ziJQHM

However, I'm not sure if we should use this. My mind is fuzzy on the subject, but I think the Hektor Heresy had something that was too similar to this for comfort. I don't want to use an idea if it's going to be too close to what someone else created for another project.

>>52066555
Very interesting.

>>52035279
I like that, particularly because it highlights the scale of the Imperium to have worlds, and therefore characters, coming from particular sub-societies within it that still encompass areas of space and history on a galactic scale.

>>52040256
>as the Navigator Palace was searched top to bottom for hidden Xenos Terribilis
Wonder what they found? Odds for vampires 2:1, genestealers 1:4, sandworms 100:1

>>52064590
the necrodermis bit had samples brought back from a tombworld, referenced in a vaguely victorian egyptology seeming way

I notice there's very little about C'Tan Vampires on the wiki and there's been no discussion for the last couple of threads.
So, C'Tan vampires! Since they're vulnerable to radiation, does that mean regular lasguns would be super effective against them?

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>>52068501
I think it was mentioned that the higher intensity radiation, the worse it gets them. Like direct sunlight will do damage after a while, but X-rays, gamma rays, and high intensity UV rays, especially directly applied to the shard, is much more effective.

The Inquisition kept asking the AdMech to manufacture UV lasguns, coming up with all sorts of bullshit reasons. The AdMech said those were stupid reasons, but if the Inquisition had said the magic C word the AdMech would have jumped to it as a solution to their little problem and then failed because the Dragon is not a shard vampire in a flesh body. Claims the beams tickle though

It would seem kind of silly if the C'tan vampires, whose dangerousness is predicated on being so hard to kill, would be easily killed by the second most common weapon in the Imperium.

The lack of an entry is more because we had trouble deciding power levels (though I think we were generally converging on Senator "Nanomachines, Son" Armstrong for your average or above average vampire, with a few really old ones getting stronger. Something that would be like a final boss for a Dark Heresy campaign).

>>52069660
>average vampire is as strong as Senator Armstrong
Shit no son, Armstrong is stronger than Raiden when they fight, and Raiden can throw giant mechs as big as titans. That's like the extreme high of vamps since true C'tan shards are about as strong as a Warlord titan.

>>52069904
So then the high end is Senator Armstrong. Dang is see this is why we're all confused.

>>52069660
What about the different strains of vampires? There's mention of a few different types (Nosferatu, Strigoi, and Lamia) but there doesn't seem to be an agreement on what each one does, exactly.

>>52070013
I think Nosferatu are Nightbringer, and...Strigoi, I think, are Deciever. One is undead-looking monster that (at very powerful levels) can pretend to be civilized, whereas the other is more the typical "aristocrat that's secretly a monster" like Governor Takis. No clue what the third type is supposed to be or how it differs from the other two.

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>>52070056
here's the picture from the last thread with vampires. At a glance, it seems like it fits with your description of what C'tan they go with, and it looks like a C'tan silver floating between them

A bit of probably not canon here, but I'll throw it up anyway.

There's a strange fact about Warlocks that most of the Guard learn the first time they try to talk to them in battle: They listen to music. Playlists hours long, never repeating a single song until a few hundred lie between the instances - and the warlock knows them by heart. The reason is very simple.
Combat is the one of the worst possible times to keep your foresight open. At the level of detail required for tactical operations, information overload will lead to an inexperienced warlock's death. There are literally hundreds of potential fate strands per soldier, many of them feeding into each other while their own potential is in flux because of another strand. General trends and important points come across as flashes of a future memory, and even their details are in motion. Most seers won't even touch that sort of mess, instead keeping to the larger overall picture of probable outcomes.
Warlocks train for it, bouncing between the big picture and the tiny, holding their minds open to but separate from the imagery, ruthlessly prioritizing whose threads they pay attention to. Timing is always an issue with this, and that's where the music comes in. A playlist known by heart, non-repeating, a single note of causality across the myriad potential futures that are born and killed every second of combat. This tells them the time. Long playlists are preferred for one simple reason: depending on the relative position of the song you're on now and the song playing then, you can determine how long you have to give a shit.

>>52066555
That is excellent. It gives the scale of the DAoT on a humanly comprehensible level. It really does show that the Imperium for all it's great wonders is still walking in the footsteps of dead giants so very much greater than they are.

These things can defeat ork WAAAAGH!!!s on their own. In standby mode. They are DAoT roombas.

>>52071132
I don't see why that wouldn't be canon. Eldar just love their music and it's a good way of keeping time. Also favourite songs bring comfort.

>>52069660
>>52069904
For power levels on the Vampires I'm going to suggest a broad guide with variations based on breed (O, D, NB, VD and any others there may be).

Stage 1
Some dipshit accepts the Silver Blood. Some increase in strength, durability and speed as well as immunity to all known forms of mundane contagion and extreme resistance and recovery from such things as Nurgles Rot. Physical abilities comperable and perhaps even in excess of the Battle Sister. Can and often do pass for pure human. Signs of aging stop.

Stage 2
The silver blood starts to mature properly at this point. Blood craving starts although is not a physical dietary need as of yet. Continued increase in physical abilities. Skin starts to become pale and in some cases develop a slight metallic sheen. Brute physical strength about on par with a Nova Ogryn but way faster. Still requires mortal food to survive. UV light starts to have an unpleasant "withering" effect. Sense of hearing somewhat heightened. Visual spectrum broadened. Ability to see in lower light conditions.

Stage 3
Blood from the same species the specimen was uplifted from has become a necessity, mortal food is optional at this point. Physical capabilities start to exceed that of most Mk3MP pattern space marines. Light in the UV and above spectrum has a more detrimental effect, continued exposure is lethal. Senses continue to develop in sensitivity.

Stage 4
Physical abilities now exceed that of a Grey Knight. Also capable of distorting physical form to form blades, wings etc. Capable of creating limited gravitational and electromagnetic anomalies at will. Sense of sight and hearing do not notably increase from the Stage 3. Sense of smell and taste becomes capable of performing complex substance analysis. Starts to develop the ability to subliminally "program" humans and eldar (effects on other species is unknown).

>>52073007
Stage 5
Requires a Grey Knight company or greater force to terminate. Ability to manipulate shape increases in severity. Ability to transform into a localized carnivorous/corrosive "fog" is gained. Can now cause substantial gravitational and electromagnetic anomalies. Any vestigial human traits have by this point been shed or are kept on a whim.

Stage 6
At this point for all intents and purposes the Vampire is a C'tan, albeit seemingly subordinate to their benefactor and of lesser personal capability similar in discrepancy to that of adult and infant. Individual is now, if they are not already, reclassified as Xenos Horrificus and are to be dealt with accordingly.

Stage 7
██████████████████████████████████████ Exterminatus Sanctioned ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████

>>52073007
There aren't any vampires of Outsider or VD. Outsider never got shattered and given what has been suggested on him he would not want to make any vampires anyway. Void Dragon is essentially unshattered and is stuck on Mars. The first C'tan vampires had to be artificially created. Any other C'tan vampire is probably from one of the completely sharded C'tan like the Burning One or the Swarm.

I know Flayers are still a thing, same as in cano

>>52073064
I know our discussions around vampires have been a clusterfuck of contradictions, but I had a couple of thoughts:

The vampires don't hunger for blood, they hunger for souls because of their Ctan nature. They probably still bite people as part of the soul eating process, but it's a distinction I thought was worth mentioning.

It was brought up before by a few others, but it's feels incongruous for vamps to have a straight up weakness to solar radiation considering that Ctan ate stars before they found out souls were tastier. I think someone had an idea that radiation instead made their biology go overactive?

I think it also makes sense to have them be somewhat weak to psyker powers, since it's mentioned in canon that warp energy is particularly damaging to Ctan due to the fact they are solely material and the reality bending nature of the warp fucks them up. It was one of the only ways the Old Ones could fight them, and this way the Imperium at least some tools to respond to a high level vamp other than "run away and orbital strike".

For power level 6, I think you meant they would be equal in power to a Ctan SHARD, right? Cause a true Ctan is godlike being on par with canon Emps. And even then, a Ctan Shard is above an Avatar of Khaine in power so we need to be careful with how many we have walking around.

>>52073881
Yes I meant a C'tan shard. Would the Imperium know the difference?

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>>52073881
I was the one who said that vampires held a careful internal balance of the shard degenerative killing cells while the host regenerate cells. Exposure to solar radiation would cause an exponential rise in the rate of degeneration to cause the host's body to melt over time. Daylight is the weakest and can take up to hours to kill a vampire but intense UV, X-ray, or Gamma lights directly being shown to the body causes a much more dramatic effect and such lights covering the brain or heart is lethal to the vampire.

>>52073881
Yeah, they're definitely hungering for souls as opposed to blood.

>I think someone had an idea that radiation instead made their biology go overactive?

Yeah, it's supposedly the same reason sunlight effects them. It wakes the shard up and gives it the munchies. I agree that base sunlight is a little incongruous though. Maybe it's more of a tell than anything else.

Gothic horror monsters are predated on two rules, how to identify the monster and how to kill the monster. C'tan vampires might not be killable by sunlight, but spending several hours in direct sunlight they start to look haggard and inhuman. Unfortunately since they like to hang out in hives, actual sunlight is easy to avoid.

>>52073942
Probably. Not at first, because the Silent King is a dick, but eventually they would have figured out these things are a bit too weak to be these god-killing star destroyers the Eldar were terrified of. Or the Harlies told them.

>>52074722
Yeah, seems like the Eldar have replaced canon Emps' knowledge as the source of the Imperium's pre-Age of Strife knowledge. If nothing else, they can just ask Isha what the Ctan are if Cegs isn't around.

>>52073007
>>52073064
>>52073546
>>52073881
>>52073942
I've been busy dabbling in the Imperial side of things, so can anyone give me a heads up on what the shit is going on with vampires and such? Is this a thing that actually exists? And what's the link to Necrons and/or C'Tan?

>>52074906
From what I know, most of Oscar's knowledge from pre-Age of Imperium stuff is:
>Malcador and/or Primarchs (for AoS info)
>Eldar (for pre-AoS info)
Oscar's in the curious position of having been made but put on ice at the very beginning of the AoS, and emerging at the tail end of it, so we should probably get some angst written about how his original "programming" had him informed about and used to DAoT Humanity, but by the time he's woken up it's all fucked. Plus, I think I remember a suggestion a few threads back was that the Men of Iron/Gold rebelled because they saw the psyker emergence and AoS coming, and were so horrified that the only solution they saw was to cull their masters?

>>52075279
No idea where you are gettign that from.

Oscar had no information in his head when he woke up and had to learn everything from step 1.

There was a psygraft machine next to his pod but it was defunct and useless.

Men of Gold went nut because AoS was not a good time to be psychic and the few that retained their marbles were killed by the ones that didn't.

The Men of Iron were connected Terminator to Skynet style to the Iron Minds and the Iron Minds were trawling the deep warp for stuf to make artificial Men of Gold souls out of so they were ground zero for all the cocaine and orgy juice that the eldar were throwing in there.

Maybe there were curious about the emergence of larger numbers of active psychics emerging but only briefly before they went bonkers.

There was the story some time back about the Library Index Card/Tickle Me Elmo that culled it's population after a Chaos infestation. But it was sad about it.

It continues to serve the Imperium as a planetary governor. It is a Sad Elmo.

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>>52075279
Long story short, a “Necron Lord” came to an overenthusiastic, unorthodox techpriest to try and reverse the biotransferrence. Techpriest went nuts at prospect of completely metallic body. “Necron Lord” turned out to be Deciever shard. Now there’s basically a bunch of soul-sucking Terminators running around weakening Imperial society from within.

You know Governor Takis? That planetary governor from the literature that the Callidus tried to kill with a C’tan Phase Blade and it ate them? Basically that, but popping up frequently enough the Inquisition actually has a name for them beyond “enigmatic Xenos threat #131”

>Iron Minds
The Iron Minds didn’t rebel because they saw the Age of Strife coming. They, along with the Men of Gold alive at the time, went nuts because they were staring into the abyss when the abyss happened to be staring back.

Oscar has no programming. Started out completely blank and despite that decided to be a good person. The ultimate argument that even though mortals are flawed and sometimes cruel, at their core they are ultimately good. The irony is that if Oscar met an actual DaoT Man of Gold they probably would act very different. Men of Gold probably varied in personality and we don't have a good handle on how they acted, but the Men of Gold would find Oscar too "human" and self-effacing, and Oscar might find the Men of Gold too pompous and arrogant.

Kind of like Worf in Star Trek. Due to being raised with no greater contact with his "people" than an ideal to look up to, Oscar ended up becoming a more ideal Man of Gold than the real deal.

>>52075279
The Ctan vampires are one of the few deliberate breaks from canon in this AU and came up in an old old thread. Essentially, as part of the Silent King's experiments to reverse biotransference he implanted a Ctan Shard into a human and via space magic it became a soul hungry vampire.

The history between the Necrons and Ctan is the same as canon.

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>>52076496
There are canon vampires but they look like bats and that's it. Not much more information than that.

>>52076496
>as part of the Silent King's experiments to reverse biotransference
I don't think this was the case, so far all the description I've read has the cryptek imply that's who sent him, but its always included a C'tan shard as the actual mastermind behind the origin of vampirism. Also, its come up that the vampires are in some form of warp contact with thier respective C'tan, and its another elaboration on/break from vague canon that the remaining important C'tan have their own esoteric sort of warp presence in the form of a 'reflection' of them as they exist in the minds of the galaxy.

>>52073064
How do you do that? It's not the built-in spoiler function, so what is it?

>>52076948
The C’tan (or at least some of them) having reflections in the Warp is not as big of a break from canon as it might seem. There’s a famous quote in 40k that says that nearly everything in the Materium has at least some reflection in the Warp, up to and including dining utensils. The C’tan probably had a miniscule reflection in the warp, less than a Tau, no greater than inanimate objects, which is why the warp was able to fuck them up so bad (they couldn’t have been blanks, because then they would have been immune to warp weapons). Start sending enough psychic juice to any object through worship or emotion, and it creates a bigger depression in the Warp.

There’s actually some canonical evidence for the Void Dragon having some kind of warp presence. Priests of Mars says that whatever the Omnissiah is, it is neither entirely C’tan nor warp god yet somehow possesses abilities unique to both. This fits perfectly with the Void Dragon here, because he’s a C’tan that has been receiving 10,000 years of worship (and therefore, psychic juice) from the AdMech.

Then someone suggested Nightbringer might have done the same (based on how he is canonically stated to cultivate and feed on fear, which C’tan shouldn’t be able to normally do). It also explains how he became associated with death in species like humans who weren’t even around at the time of the War in Heaven. Deciever someone suggested he was such a dick it imprinted itself into the very fabric of the universe, though this is less clear.

Outsider and other C’tan have no warp presence (or at least not beyond “fork” level). They were all shattered or forgotten, and were only worshipped by the Necrontyr which is about as effective as being worshipped by Tau in terms of developing a warp reflection.

All of the C’tan still have access to quantum physics bullshit and the like. NB is most dependent on warp and knows how to use it the best, VD the least (just knowing “it exists”).

>>52077160
Alt+219 gets you a rather intimidating-looking blackbox, although if you're without a keypad you'll just have to look it up and copypasta a lot.

>>52075388
>>52076452
Huh, I swear the Iron Mind rebellion was because of their prediction of the AoS (in the same way that a certain vanilla primarch had self-fulfilling dreams of grimdark). Or maybe that's just vanilla fanon. Apologies.

>>52077785
I actually do remember that coming up, but its always been superseded by the "mining the warp for soulstuff is dangerous as hell" reason, which has been the main version since the concept was first floated.
>>52076452
I think the reason people keep trying to give Oscar memories of the DAoT is because the description of Cthonia really kinda begs for a story of what went down there, and the fall of a golden age that's only just being re-captured in memory is itself great nobledark material. One way to do it while keeping Oscar tabula rasa would be to extend Malcador's journal. I'd do it but I'm gonna die from research papers, and have other writefagging that comes before that anyways.

>>52078539
It was never stated how long Malcador and the salvage teams spent on the Cthonian ring, how much stuff they catalogued, what they saw or even if this was their first trip.

Also Malcador was ~150 at the time so there would be opportunity for other missions.

>>52078539
>>52079283
Recovered apocalyptic log of doom? Recovered apocalyptic log of doom.

It was also mentioned that the Rebellion of the Iron Men and the Men of Gold left huge scars all over the place. Like that one planet in Mass Effect that has a Valle Marineris-sized canyon formed by a glancing blow from a mass driver.

>Enter Clearance
>Password: ***************************
>Verifying...
>Commencing biometric scan...
>Verified. Welcome, Inquisitor.
>Opening file...

OPERATION: FOXGLOVE NAVY SWAN (Soggy Snake 1)
SOURCE: Ordo Malleus, Divisio Panoptica, ARGENT CRENELLATION
AUTHOR: Inquisitor RIGEL NIGEL

PROPOSAL:
ABSTRACT:
Despite advantages in the field of production and population, the Imperium nonetheless finds itself at a disadvantage against the forces of Chaos. This is because Chaos possesses an unassailable rear area in the form of the Eye of Terror, which allows them to rest and resupply unmolested while the worlds of the Imperium may come under attack at any time.
If any final victory over the Fallen and the Croneworld Eldar is to be achieved, this advantage must be removed. We must find ways to penetrate into the Eye of Terror and attack the Great Enemy within their place of safety.
Therefore, I propose the formation of a working group to study the environmental conditions within the Eye of Terror and the feasibility of inserting armed forces into it- and bringing them back out again.
[Attached file: FOXGLOVE NAVY SWAN (Soggy Snake 2), resources requested]
[Attached file: FOXGLOVE NAVY SWAN (Soggy Snake 3), proposed operations]

RESPONSE:
The proposal has been approved, by unanimous vote of the High Lords of Earth. The operation has been assigned the codename FOXGLOVE NAVY SWAN. Working group has been assigned to ARGENT CRENELLATION. All necessary resources and authorities have been approved. For the Imperium.
>End file

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>>52080720
Oh shit, it's happening!
Is this referring to the Panty Raid, or a new "sequel"?

>>52080891
Calling it a 'sequel' to the Panty Raid would be overly grandiose. This is permission to form a committee to investigate whether or not a Panty Raid 2.0 or, better yet, White Crusade is even possible. I'm planning on doing a series of reports covering ARGENT CRENELLATIONs' investigations, but I haven't decided what, if anything, will come out of it.