There was talk in the last thread that about the Tau and how extensive their Empire was when they signed up into the Imperium.

It seemed that the Proctoon (what's left of them) and the Kroot were integrated at the time. I would suggest the Vespid and maybe one or two of the literally who minor xeno species.

We need them to be a large and established empire brought low before they join.

But they would not have the Niccassar(?) or the Demiurg. Demiurg are already part of the Imperium. Niccas would negate one of the limiting factors that kept the Tau in place for their ass kicking.

File: jojo pose.jpg (106 KB, 600x900)

106 KB JPG

I know there was the discussion of some sort of weakness for the C'tan vampires to prevent them from being superior to humans or eldar in every conceivable way. I still vote for solar radiation causing the C'tan shard inside the vampire to devour anything that it touches. That includes the vampire's body itself as the C'tan shard will go berserk and try to eat the cells in the body. When given enough time in sunlight or solar energy in the body, the vampire will drop dead as all of the bodily functions stop due to being unable to regenerate faster than the rate the shard can kill cells.

>>51525101
A weakness to solar radiation just seems inconsistent with the fluff since the C'tan ate stars until they found out that souls were tastier. And honestly, I don't see what's wrong with having the vampires be OP or mostly superior to mortals. Most things in the Warhammer universe are better than humanity, but humanity wins out through grit, tenacity, cleverness, and a bit of luck (and throwing lots of bodies at the problem). A C'tan is one of the most powerful beings in a universe where everything is absurdly powerful, so yeah, facing a tiny sliver of a C'tan in a mortal body should still be a terrifying and nigh suicidal task.

File: image.jpg (1.57 MB, 2718x2315)

1.57 MB JPG

Testa Lamia Transfixerunt, Xenos Obscuras. Pictured are Cosimo Mossey Lucidicius, former Arch-Duke of Lyra now fled to Solomance, and former Imperial Guard sergent Carsar Bon, also called Night Dracul.

>>51525384
Fucking nice mate. I wish I could draw anything like that. Something about the way you use overlapping lines makes it darker than it should without being edgy.

Also, arguments over making the Sororitas work.

>>51524369
>relatively light
>more bugs

That's a good point. We don't want this to be the nihlistic grimderp of canon, but at the same time we don't want to go to the other extreme and become Brighthammer. We need a bit more dark in our nobledark.

What are we doing with Kryptmann and his mass-exterminatus in this timeline? On the one hand it seems like a good opportunity for some more losses or pyrrhic victories for the Imperium, but on the other hand the canon version seems kind of "grim for the sake of grim", especially when you realize that the whole thing shouldn't have worked since the tyranids would just bypass the Exterminatus-ed worlds in the first place and just move on to the nearest (contra what is stated in canon, where it is said despite the Imperium being horrified the ends justified the means).

I had an idea bouncing around about an alternative Kryptman that isn't grimderp but might add a bit more dark to this timeline. When Hive Fleet Behenoth first made its entrance onto the galactic stage in M36, absolutely no one knew how to deal with them. They had been able to tie the tyranids to the gene-stealers several millenia prior, but a fat lot of good that had done since the tyranids had a completely different M.O.

About the only half-decent idea was a plan that came from one Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Kryptmann, in what would later become known as the Kryptmann Line. Planets that were predicted to be in the direct path of the tyranid Hive Fleet were evacuated with all haste, and the systems were left empty save for a single manned starship.

When the hive ships moved in to eat the unguarded planets and the tyranids were finally committed, the ships would Exterminatus each of the planets in the solar system. Not only would the tyranids be unable to claim any biomass from the planet, but they would lose any biomass and energy they had expended while trying to feed, an overall loss for the Hive Mind.

>>51525655
The downside to this plan is that it meant some poor saps had to be left alone, in a dead solar system with the tyranids, with no way to escape due to the Shadow in the Warp.

The problem is after a while the tyranids just learned to jump two or more planets past where they were planning to go and keep eating. Nevertheless, Behemoth expended enough biomass in the effort that it's back was broken in a later engagement. To this day there is an unnatural line of dead stars burned in the Segmentum Ultima by this plan.

In M41, when the main hive fleet first made landfall, the Emperor contacted the Kryptmann Institute (the Ordo Xenos group formed specifically to try and figure out how to take down the tyranids in the wake of Behemoth, Kraken, and Leviathan). They suggested they could try the Kryptmann Line again. Oscar asked them if they had any better ideas. The Inquisitors responded that the best they had come up with for a plan B was to invite the Swarmlord, Lady Malys, and the Silent King over for tanna and see which one killed the other two first.

File: Spoiler Image (44 KB, 703x274)

44 KB PNG

>>51525101
But anon, don't you know?

C'tan vampires have no weaknesses/s

>>51525291
Maybe their weakness is something that is really really hard to exploit. Like the shard thing, but the shard itself has to be exposed to UV light, not the host body. This means you can kill one, but they have to have a downright Rasputanian death.

Your normal pleb would have no chance against one, and that's if they even recognized one before it was too late.

>>51525655
>>51525677
I like it. A scorched earth policy that they knew would bite them in the ass later when they needed those worlds, but still the only fighting chance they had.

Speaking of arguments over the Sororitas, here's the stuff that I wrote for them towards the end of the last thread
http://pastebin.com/rsCB8189
>Damn, I forgot the Orders Fraternis, where they stick the guys who want to join. Just so the femanons can have their white-haired bishie-boys (who may or may not be obsessed with rose motifs).
>There's plenty of overlap in the genetic compatibility requirements, but an Astartes aspirant that lacks a few of the markers for the AA Mk 3 can get the AS Mk 2. Also, not every sister gets the upgrades, and the Orders Fraternis can fill every role that doesn't require them (so no bishie-boy SoBs, but pretty boy heal sluts are okay), so they even get aspirants who aren't compatible with either package but are capable enough in non-combat fields to justify initiating them, or ones that just plain have their hearts set on joining (as is the case for most boys born to Sororitas members).
I'm working on fleshing out their augmentations, so I need ideas. Subtle is the keyword for these, maximum effect for minimal effort and invasiveness. If the genewrights could choose between three massive boosts that required their own highly invasive procedures, or three minor boosts that come from a single minor change, they went with the minor change. If the Space Marines are "barely human combat raep machine", the Sisters are " Human 2.0" with some extra tricks up their sleeves. An Astartes can't live a normal life after augmentation, a Sister can.
Got it?

>>51525930
>AS Mk 2
Well, AS Mk 1A, for Orders Fraternis, as the MK 2 is reserved for women by blessing of Isha.

File: battle sister.jpg (424 KB, 1920x1080)

424 KB JPG

>>51525447
How the Sororitas are organized is about as nightmarish as describing the SS to somebody who never heard of them. Acting as the paramilitary organization under the Inquisition they directly answer to Ordo Securitas but an be called to action to a lesser extent by Ordo Xenos. There are many non-military branches within the Sororitas that perform very specialized tasks like guarding children of politicians or inspecting worlds for corruption whether it be Chaos or otherwise. There are the two main military branches of the Sororitas being the 'Orders Militant' who are unofficially known as the 'Sisters of Battle' and the 'Orders Securitas'. The main job of Militant Sisters is that they offer assistance to the Imperial Army and work with both Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard elements when not requested to work for the Inquisition. On the front, they almost act like Commissars, in that the Battle Sisters are the fanatical soldiers threatening to hang anybody who retreats without orders to do so. The Securitas Sisters are there to ensure nothing hostile to the Imperium infiltrate society and put down any rebellions. They blend into Imperial society using spies, informants, and agents of all kinds to collect intelligence on everybody while keeping tracking everything. Often called to service under inquisitors, they can do many things from ruining a Crone Eldar raid to hunting down renegade Space Marines, and preventing a Genestealer cult coups.

>>51525814
Kryptman's other big idea, so his last one, was the thing remembered as The Kryptman Gambit.

Pure the Hive Fleet into one of the ork empires. Let them duke it out and nuke the survivors before they can build new space craft.

Did not work quite as planned. It did have some measure of success in that it did absorb an entire Hive Fleet. Sadly it seems that the orks are "farming" the Bugz. Fucking orks.

>>51525801
>>51525291
It could be that the vampires work on a delicate internal balance. The silver blood makes them powerful but eats them alive from the inside out very slowly. They can offset this with the regenerative abilities gifted by the silver blood.

The regenerative abilities have a limited cap on how fast it.can work. The hunger does not if it gets triggered too hard. Ultraviolet, X-Ray and gamma rays all make the silver more active.

The vampire gets progressively stronger as it is killed right up till it falls to dust.

In the last thread, or maybe the one before, one anon went into detail about the development of the laser weapons. There was suggestion that the Inquisition kept trying to commission large scale manufacturing of UV laser rifles. They couldn't tell the tech-priests why because far less than 1% of adepts of Magi or higher rank even know what a C'tan is.

They kept telling them spurious reasons like
>muh no lenses flash
>muh invisible beam
>muh stopping power

AdMech tolls them to go fuck themselves because you can't see the beam in most conditions, wear some goggles for the flash and muh stopping power drains the battery hugely.

Individual adepts are permitted to build custom jobs as a hobby or to bring in a bit of recreational cash, which is where the Inquisition is getting most of its vampire slaying las-rifles from.

>>51525291
Shard vampires are the (remaining) Ctan's second go at uplifting/weaponizing mortals.

Since making the Necrotyr into the Necrons the Nightbringer and Deciever have been humbled by lesser beings, broken into shards, and have gained psychic powers, and they're now starting from beings significantly more hardy and psychically fit than Necrotyr. The shard vampires serve as soul devouring nodes, they are also lesser parts, disconnected but in the form of the whole. This fractal quality makes it so that the vampire's deeds and warp imprint is ultimately tied to that of its sire, whose proclivities it shares and whose pervading specter it extends. I imagine first or second generation vampires of either lineage to have a phisiology composed mostly of once organic human tissue almost entirely converted to living metal necrodermic tissue, including its physical mind, with a pseudo-soul of wrought warpstuff dredged up by psychic super AI. This greatly perturbes Oscar, much in the same way he was unhappy when he heard about the raid on Chthonia. No vampire is so mighty as the full legend of its sire, and tend to be less physically potent than a naked C'tan shard of corresponding type, but they have far easier access to their lineages reflection in the immaterium, and are tempered by their mortal personas.

>>51526371
And of course the Silent King said nothing when Oscar asked him what was going on because the Silent King is a dick who likes to keep his cards close to his chest.

>>51525930
There were two write-ups of some of the proposed SoB augs in the previous threads. Of the ones that were talked about, I remember...
- Reinforced dermal skin weave
- Synthetic organ similar to Biscopea that promotes muscle and bone growth
- Artificial gland that messes with things like adrenalin and cortisol (and may or may not increase aggression, AdBio won't confirm)

Sisters (barring the puritan orders) end up being a bit taller and buffer than average, but not to the point that one would stand out like an Astartes would among humans.

Wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of Black Carapace thing too given their reliance on power armor.

File: strgoi vampire.jpg (58 KB, 640x504)

58 KB JPG

>>51525801
I was going to say everything monster has a weakness even if it is just some really minor or obscure thing like UV lights to the heart. Say if a weak C'tan vampire was walking around in daylight for 3 hours and it should be dead on the 6th hour if it keeps being exposed to sunlight. The vampire should be growing weak from the body constantly repairing itself while the shard keeps killing cells. For some reason, the vampire stumbled on a platoon of Scions. Now the Scions might decapitate the vampire or blow it to bits but that doesn't stop the vampire from overclocking its body to just instantly heal itself. Each of the limbs just flies back to the torso to reattach itself automatically and the decapitation only makes it angrier. The entirety of the 30 man Scion platoon with all the armor or weapons couldn't protect themselves from the vampire just walking up to them to kill everybody. This is while being weakened from sunlight and still winning against Spec-Ops soldiers. Feeding on the Scions allows it to give it enough energy for hyperactive constant healing then keep the vampire well enough to walk around in daylight well beyond the 6th hour.

The need to keep feeding on large lifeforms will create a trail which can be tracked back to a vampire. The more monstrous or larger of the vampires should just look like living metal due to the constant feeding allowing the shard to be fully integrated into the host's body. Those that almost look like humans albeit paler don't seem to have living metal until you slice them open, all of the skeletons should be replaced with metal even when feeding is kept to a minimum.

>>51526528
There was also the skeletal reinforcement via hyperdiamond and plasteel struts inlaid into the bones after the completion of the growth.

I would have no Black Carapace. It makes the armour still wearable but more clunky, thus differentiating them from the astartes.

Astartes should be the only ones with Black Carapace. It being one of the upgrades that made them superior to the old Thunder Warriors.

Space Wolves use an expensive mind-to-machine interface unit designed by their Iron Priests. Sadly not compatible with non-Space Wolves.

>>51526268
When Hive Fleet Jormungandr (a.k.a. Hive Fleet Galaxy Eater) first showed up on the fringes of the Imperium, the Emperor dialed up nearly everyone he could think of who might be old or wise enough to try to figure out what might be going on.

When Bjorn the Fell-Handed was contacted, he took one look at the data and said to Oscar "I'm surprised you didn't think about calling this thing Hive Fleet Fimbulwinter".

For those of you who know your Norse Mythology, think of what that means.

>>51526687
So old, powerful C'tan vamps are like vampyric Terminators?

In her few years of service Ambassador Lofn Ulthran regularly faced distressingly specific threats upon her person. This has been of some public note, particularly in light of the militant xenophobic attacks on her and her parents prior to her birth and throughout her youth. It has, however, been suppressed that a not insignificant number of these threats appear to be sent from Lady Malys, of many fecund terrors is she, mostly by proxy. The queen of crones has made evident a particular interest in the ambassador, mostly through voluminous missives composed in the formal style of Old Eldar Empire enunciations of menace. Delivered to craftworld Ulthwe in the claws of a Tzeentchian bird, by power of sorcerous rite, these messages have variously described the festivities of the Shah-Dome in lurid detail, aledged personal attacks against the foremost of the imperium, explicated the entireties of several bleak and unfavorable prophecies, and in one instance, shared what it claimed was Malys' personal intentions for Lofn on the occasion of her capture. Among these, those letters judged to be Malys' own writing focus on touting the obscene glories of the Eye of Terror, addressing Lofn in specific, while most others are the work of rotating Tzeentchian and Slaaneshi courtiers. The supernatural corruptive powers of these doccuments has been minimal, allowing them to be read by Ordo Mallus analysts, but it has been roundly agreed not to convey these materials to the public or to their targets, for obvious reasons. The purpose of this peculiar diplomatic campaign is unknown, but it is not unprecedented, as seen with several prominent galactic figures Malys has seen fit to harass in this manner. One supposes that Malys has free time, and spends it on these little volleys of barbs every century or so. Taken along with the continuing horrors inflicted by Malys's armies, the effect is jarring, and displeasing in the extreme.

File: solar immunity.gif (974 KB, 500x281)

974 KB GIF

>>51526780
Pretty much if the vampire lives long enough they should be stronger than several Inquisitors with a Guardsmen regiment and Space Marines reinforcements. Age only make these C'tan vampires stronger with feedings, skills, and experiences. Once a C'tan vampire could somehow overcome the solar radiation weakness (somebody probably did) it would take capital ship weaponry to kill it. Stubber rounds get absorbed, lasbolts only leave scorch marks, artillery is useless, UV lights are harmless, and pyker attacks nullified. The vampire being immune to solar radiation means it has control over the shard maybe temporarily but anything short of a Lance battery can't kill the vampire.

>>51526528
>>51526748
So it looks like (going with subtle)
>organ that forces changes in the musculature and skeletal structure that makes bones stronger and muscles just better (more output per calorie)
>modified adrenal glands (possible idea for fem only version: synthetic combat hormone baseds on estrogen, made via modified ovaries)
>reinforced skin
>possible additional skeletal reinforcement for Sisters Militant
>possible? Pseudo black carapace consisting of a brain implant and a few specialized data jacks. Nowhere near as capable as an actual black carapace, but gives them a bit more control than an unaugmented human
>white hair (possible to make it passed to descendants?)
>more efficient digestion?
>boosted immune systems. Mandatory for sisters hospitaller.
>implanted wards against chaos. Literally just thin sheets of something inscribed with hexagramatic wards put beneath the skin. Some sisters refuse as they can burn out painfully.
>better eyes
>better senses in general (but not as good as Astartes because they don't increase total available brain volume)
>looser requirements for augmentation, as this is basically a very refined and more "natural" thunder warrior with way less issues
More ideas, more debates.

Aspexts of Steel, film one
Aspect Warrior Loriel Zig: Why did I join the Arbites? Because I have a burning need for GREAT JUSTICE!
Brother Yakov, Steel Heralds Chapter: I think there's a treatment for that.

File: adepta sororitas.jpg (346 KB, 490x600)

346 KB JPG

>>51527207
I'd say that that is a little too far.

They are supposed to be only one step removed from baseline pure human.

>Biscopea
Or something like it, that makes it easier to put on muscle and also enhances the muscle

>Genetically modification virus
Tailored to the recipients immune system (so it can't spread) that works in concert with the Biscopea to cause some mild increase in height but also enhances the immune system. Also increases rate of healing somewhat. Has to work with the Biscopea in some mysterious way or the increased healing rate results in multiple caner.

>Skeletal reinforcement
After the growth phase has finished the bones are inlaid with lightweight but strong non-metallic materials.

>Skin
Skin has a high durability micro-weave sewn through it to make it more durable.

These are the basics present in all Orders Militant but weird and rare Pure Human puritan orders. Orders may choose to implement additional modifications at their discretion. The bleached hair is a side effect that that effects less than 1 in 5 sisters but has become associated with the Sisters of Battle as a whole in the public eye and has lead to some orders bleaching their hair intentionally. Some shave their hair. Some do not care for such things one way or the other. None of the officially sanctioned alterations are inheritable, this is suspected to be intentional.

The optional extras like cybernetic eyeballs and glands that produce combat stimulants must also be of similar and discrete nature.

Even when naked they are supposed to appear 100% human. Their only visible difference is that, when taken as a group, they are a few inches taller than the average for women of their recruitment group and slightly more muscular looking. It takes medical equipment to tell them apart from baseline basic peasants. That's all part of their charm. They can infiltrate a society and nobody suspects a thing until the signal is given and shit gets very real, very fast.

>>51527869
Well, most of the implants I suggested are pretty compatible with "a few inches taller and buffer" and "look full human when naked".
The eyes and senses are not cybernetics (unless specifically requested for a sister that needs or would benefit from them), but instead focus on making the sensors themselves more sensitive, with a slight amount more of neurons to handle the extra input (as I said, they can't increase much because they don't increase the skull size by enough).
The wards are optional, and while subtle do make them standout when naked.
I think part olf the issue was me comparing their abilities in general to a thunder warrior.

File: angry_marine_and_sister_s(...).jpg (95 KB, 900x599)

95 KB JPG

>>51528245
I see.

That fits with what we have on what they are so far. No all we need is to reach some sort of consensus on where they are from.

>>51528660
If you don't mind having underground religious wars that can effect imperial politics, my pastebin from>>51525930 can be a start.
I suppose at this point its mostly a matter of details.

File: 1452689174958.jpg (366 KB, 1600x1000)

366 KB JPG

>>51526755
So as far as Good Ol' Bjorn can see the end is coming.

As a question how Does Oscar view Bjorn?

The two of them are at this point the only human veterans of the Age of Strife, two of the very few that still live that participated in the Raid on the Mansion, probably the last two people left who even remember that Earth had real nations and shit.

Did Oscar ever meet Bjorn back in the old days?

Does Oscar ever visit Fenris and talk about the goodish old days?

I imagine shit would be sad.

>>51527207
>white hair (possible to make it passed to descendants?)

This was talked about in a previous thread. It was pointed out that any augmentations to the sisters would have to be either cybernetic, epigenetic, somatic cell only, or otherwise non-heritable, or else all Chaos would have to do is get their hands on a Sister and Chaos would be able to create an army of enhanced humans that could shred Imperial Guard.

It's been suggested that white hair, or at least a tendency towards it, is one of the "side-effects" of the augmentation, which the Imperium waves through because it is so minor compared to what can go wrong with a Space Marine and is easy to counteract (hair dye). The white hair also serves as a symbol for the Sisters, in the sense of "Oh shit, the Sisters are here" to their enemies". Bunch of white-haired women show up at your door and you know you dun fucked up.

>>51529342
I was thinking just the white hair, which I had written as "put in the process because Domenica wanted it". Its a separate process, which being cosmetic only can be safely passed on (while Astartes are sterile from their body temperature being too high to support semen production, sisters are definetly fertile). But I completely agree with everything but the white hair being somatic only.
I just hate the entire " dye it white" thing because that is a bitch to maintain and get right. Not only do you have to strip any yellow from the hair (yellow being basically the base color of hair proteins), you then have to use slightly purple translucent products to get the sheen and tones just right. I've tried it.

File: 1477489106760.jpg (190 KB, 1178x459)

190 KB JPG

Are there ye olde pre-black power and neolithic worlds in this Noble Dark Imperium?

It seem counter intuitive that there would be if one of the core driving themes is Civility vs Barbarity.

It's all about lifting up from the muck rather than letting thousands wallow because "muh super stronk child soldiers" that Vanilla operates on.

Not that they would tame the world, as such. Cretacia will always be a dinosaur infested shit heap, but the people might be living rather than merely surviving. The Flesh Tearers might still be brutal as fuck front line high speed meat grinders but they don't eat people. Blood rituals, but not actually gnawing the flesh from human bones.

File: cute_albino_by_pierceddem(...).jpg (32 KB, 604x403)

32 KB JPG

>>51529494
Intentionally creating a mutation, installing it into a tailored virus that won't give you cancer, making it mark your children and your children's children possibly forever just so you can have different hair colour seems a tad vain.

>>51529589
Yes, yes it is.
It's perfect.
Its also recessive, so not every kid gets it.

File: feudal guardsmen.jpg (702 KB, 1600x1417)

702 KB JPG

>>51529534
There are plenty of worlds that are just "ooga booga, where da magiks at" short of just devolving back to nomadic society. The difference between vanilla and the AU is that the culture developed on these planets changed from "gas the Xenos, race wars now!" to "we must unite to kill anything threating" during the Great Crusade. Oscar specifically didn't want to see a civilization like Ursh developing in his Imperium. There is still fear of the unknown in these Death and Feudal worlds but nowhere near to the extent as in vanilla. Things considered barbaric are outlawed or at least regulated, such as sanctioned fights or only animal sacrifices. Only Kreig kills any unauthorized xenos on sight.

>>51529737
It also makes them identifiable when infiltrating a society.

>>51529534
>>51529767

I actually had thought about this, though I never managed to write it up as a Codex entry.

When the Imperium discovers a feral or feudal world, they probably often like to uplift it as much as possible before they actually start recruiting from it. Even though a laz-gun might be so simple an idiot can use it, the Imperium still likes it when the people holding know enough to know which end is the killy bit.

Of course, given the state of the galaxy in M41, standards have started to slip a bit.

As a result you get, for lack of a better term, Ascended Feral Worlds. Worlds that know about the galaxy beyond their door, but aren't super interested in giving up their way of life.

Think of some of the tribes in the Amazon or in some parts of Africa, who are still living in the same ways their great-grandfathers were except they are wearing t-shirts, carrying steel knives, and carrying electric lanterns instead of loincloths, stone tools, and torches. They are lifted up from the muck, and they aren't savages, but they aren't interested in building hives or "going soft". Some are enticed by the bright lights of the greater galaxy and leave, but for others it would be too much culture shock.

Civilization isn't "every world a hive planet", despite what some might think. It's about society and order as opposed to brutality and chaos.

>>51530019
That's why I (was the anon mentioned in >>51529342) suggested it was either a side-effect, or a tendency (like 20% of all aspirants). In this case, it would be a flaw they aren't sure how to fix, rather than a feature.

Also, I'm sure in the noble darkness of the far future, they still have hair dye.

>>51530019
its been thousands of years, it would definitely come in and out of fashion. Speaking of which, Oscar, Horus, and one of the vampires have dark green sashes.

>>51529282
>So as far as Good Ol' Bjorn can see the end is coming.

Bjorn has seen some shit. He remembers when an unholy horde of demented Eldar and greenskins flowed across the galaxy in a manner that could be described more as a tidal wave than an invading army. He remembers when an entire fucking dimension populated by beings neither material nor demonic that took the laws of physics as mere suggestions tried to interpose itself upon reality. He has never seen anything like this.

Bjorn’s been around Eldar long enough to know about the Rhana Dandra. He’s heard the Starchild Prophecies, probably so often he’s told the Space Wolves he’s sick of them. He, along with everyone else in the Imperium, knows that something is up with the Dark City and the Eye of Terror. He knows who Ghazgull is. He sees the parallels.

It’s also possible he may be thinking of a more literal interpretation of Ragnarok. The part that despite a cataclysmic battle where nearly everyone dies, heralds the coming of a new age. Líf, Lífþrasir, Móði, Magni, Baldr, Höðr, Víðarr and Váli are all said to survive Ragnarok, so not everyone dies. And one would be hard-pressed to say that between the 13th Black Crusade, Ghazghull’s WAAAGH!, Szarekh’s resurgent empire, and the tyranids the current events of the galaxy aren’t going to represent the end of an era and the beginning of a new one in some form.

I was also thinking of a more literal interpretation of Fimbulwinter. Three entire years of winter with no spring wherein all the carnivores go nuts with starvation and try to eat everyone. And then, on year four, Ragnarok happens.

File: bjorn.jpg (40 KB, 500x367)

40 KB JPG

>>51530282 (cont.)
>and forgot my image like a pleb
>anyway, onto the subject of Oscar and Bjorn

Oscar might not be in the best place mentally. All of his close friends have died. Most of the beings he can reminisce about the "good old days" with fall into the "gods and epic heroes" category (Eldrad, Isha/Macha, Ceggers, whoever the leader of Saim-Hann is), which makes him rather uncomfortable. Bjorn is the last "normal" person he can talk with. I'd imagine they're closer than one would think.

We've talked in the past about why Oscar didn't name people like Macharius, Creed, Vandire, Yarrick, or Inquisitor Thor primarchs. Part of that may be because the title was seen as a relic of a past age. The real reason might be a bit more selfish, Oscar thinks that naming new primarchs would be an insult to his dead friends.

He probably tried to keep Vulkan close by him for as long as he could. He probably would have done the same with Ferrus but it sounds like few people could have stood him.

Heck, the Dark Age of Technology was, at maximum, only 10,000 years. And that's assuming the Men of Gold were invented at the start of the DaoT. Oscar may be biologically older than any Man of Gold that ever existed before him.

File: automata.jpg (110 KB, 400x414)

110 KB JPG

>>51530428
>Dark Age of Technology
that's actually the golden age, and the period following the rebellion of the Men of Iron and presumably the active Men of Gold is the Age of Strife. Stupid and confusing, but so it is.

>>51526748
>>51527207

I see the point in no Black Carapace.

So in many ways the Sisters are the opposite counterparts to the Astartes, they're both refinements to the crude augmentations of the Thunder Warriors, but the Sisters are more refined and "natural" (at the cost of strength, making them, as one anon said "more like peak human than walking tank) as opposed to the Astartes who have even more shit thrown in to make them even tougher and stabilize everything out.

File: IMG_0240.jpg (63 KB, 564x929)

63 KB JPG

>>51533096
I was the one that said that quote. Something like the Black Carapace would mean a Sister has those sockets all over her body to be attached to the armor. That appearance in it of itself is a dead giveaway to anybody that can see her limbs, effectively preventing them from infiltrating as spies. Allowing them to move as gracefully as Space Marines in Power Armor would take away from the fact non-mutated humans shouldn't be able to do that. They should be slower and clumsy in their movements compared to Space Marines but are still much better than a Guardsman. In just about every way the Sisters' pattern Power Armor is superior to Flak Armor in almost every way. The only problem of not using the Black Carapace while in Power Armor is that if the joints every malfunction, the limbs of the wearer could be snapped like a twig. The hydrologics or motors inside the limb armoring would push/pull beyond the intended amount to rip muscles and break bones. The reality is, Sisters' Power Armor is not actually Power Armor, more like skin tight Exo-suits.

>>51525655
>>51525677
>>51525814
>>51526268
I think one of the first things that was put about the Tyranids was that:
>The hive fleets came far, far earlier than expected, and were one of the main reasons for the Tau joining the IoM (the other being civil war ending up as a philosophical crisis)
>Kryptman went ahead with his Gambit and Line ahead of schedule, too, and got excommunicated even harder this time since everyone was a little more reasonable.
>He's been pumped up with enough rejuvenant to see the full nid fleet making galaxyfall, though - and to see how his measures that just about slowed a hive fleet are pissing in the wind against the real thing.


>>51526123
>>51526528
>>51526748
>>51527207
>>51527869
>>51533096
Since we're having the Astartes fully attached to the Imperial Army (we also need to decide on calling them that or Guard), should we expend the role of the Sisters to all of the Inquisition? Sure, the Orders Securitas are the oldest and most well know, but their "yeah, we want to help make sure the Imperium stops doing that kinda dumb shit" could eventually extend to the rest of the Inquisition. I never really got the point of SMs being attached to Inquisitorial Retinues anyways (apart from for RPG purposes), and given that guardsmen other than stormtroopers are probably too weaksauce for their line of work, the Adeptus "Stronger-Than-Ordinary-Humans-But-Able-To-Blend-Inish" Sororitas seem to fit that slot pretty well.

>>51535023
Upper limit of a human on longevity treatments is 750 - 1,000. Kryptman has been taking all of the longevity and freezing himself between hive fleets. The Hive Mind is his white whale and he will chase it across all of time and space.

Imperial Army encompasses both Guard and Navy.

There may be Sisters that get assigned to other branches outside their traditional areas of expertise in the same way that you sometimes see Space Marines in Inquisitoral retinue. Sometimes something specialist needs doing and the Inquisition attracts odd.

>>51535023
Do you remember which thread? Because I don't remember Kryptman coming up before. If that's the case he would have to be freezing himself, since Behemoth was in M37 (or something, the timeline says M37 is the first vanguard fleets and I don't remember when the genestealer wars were). So otherwise Kryptman would have to be freezing himself like Shadowsun.

The only Astartes I know of working directly with the Inquisition are the Grey Knights and Deathwatch, both of which fight gribblies which would be far beyond what a normal Inquisitor would be expected to fight alone (super-daemons and super-xenos, respectively). It may be that's the only time here the Inquisition gets actively involved with the Astartes on the battlefield.

Bump with filk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wJzPhRJRgFA

>>51539098
Quick skim of the archives sees Kryptman first brought up in Thread 3 talking about needing writefaggotry for Heroes of the Imperium. Thread 4 says his Gambit (Octarius) bought time for the Imperium to grind down the 12th BC.

Thread 6b has what I'm after though, although we might have to tweak it to do with the dates:
>Kryptman enacted his Gambit in his relative youth this time around, catching Leviathan and Orks in perma-combat at a much earlier date.
>Now he's pushing 800 and the rejuvenant drugs are barely doing anything and he is probably going to die knowing that he didn't buy the Imperium as much time as he hoped he would have.

>>51535145
>in the same way that you sometimes see Space Marines in Inquisitorial retinue
This is exactly what I meant - the majority are with the Orders Securitas, but whenever the Inquisition needs some muscle loaned out, they get Sisters where they would've gotten SMs in vanilla.

>The Hive Mind is his white whale and he will chase it across all of time and space.
This, this, holy shit this.

File: less insane CE.jpg (165 KB, 756x1057)

165 KB JPG

Bump with proper musik.
https://youtu.be/OogHYADY9IM

Did we ever talk about how the Crone Eldar Navy operates? We went into full detail about where the Imperial Navy comes from but almost nothing on the Crone Eldar. Seeing as they are one of the Big Bad Guys we should expand on the lore.

>>51541195
Someone suggested their ships were more like Craftworld Eldar ships than Dark Eldar ships but evil and possibly more technologically advanced but nothing else beyond that.

>>51540964
Yeah, Leviathan would be around M37. Of course, having the Octarius war go on for three millenia would probably produce OP plz nerf orks and tyranids compared to what we have in canon, but there's no way you could trick the main Hive Fleet into doing the same.

I was thinking that the Sisters attach for mostly investigation purposes, although they try and support every branch of the government. When the Inquisition needs heavy firepower is when the Deathwatch (need a better name) gets called in for super-xenos-sabotage-happy-hour and the Grey Knights for "we think they inscribed a summoning circle in the hives foundations".
So when you call the Sororitas, they have someone they call for backup.

>>51540964
In all fairness Kryptman might be "only" just shy of 800.

That could be excluding the time he has spent in the freezer.

Why does Kryptman hunt his whale? Because there was a world. It was a nowhere place. Total hillbilly dump. A few mines, a bit of agriculture, some nice beaches and shit it couldn't make into resorts due to remote location and nothing much else. Only contact it really had with the Imperium was a semi-retired Arbiter. It's contributions to the Imperium were minimal but it was no bother.

The only thing it ever produced that anyone ever noticed was a child, maybe 12 or 13 years of age, called Boaz Kryptman. A child that saw Tyran, his world, get devoured.

Kryptman isn't hugely clever, he isn't hugely charismatic, he isn't even a hugely dangerous combatant. But unholy fuck is he driven. He is driven like Curze was driven. He will make the Hive pay for what it took from him.

Under his commission poisons, diseases and strange alchemy have been concocted and although the Hive always adapts the toll before it does so is immense. No other mere mortal has hurt the Great Devourer quite as much as he has.

He is awoken when needed and preserved when not.

As of 999M41 he is very, very active. He is the spear tip slamming into the neck of the monster. His dying day is close and he knows it, but he will make his passing be felt.

File: Ahab.jpg (50 KB, 850x400)

50 KB JPG

>>51542267
I can’t believe how much I love this.

It would also go a long way towards explaining why Kryptmann was going to Tyran in the first place, given that the planet was out in the middle of butt-fuck nowhere: he was going to visit his home.

However, that raises the question of why Kryptmann would give them the name of tyranids in the first place if he was actually from Tyran. By that standard, he is the last of the tyranids (as in the actual inhabitants of Tyran), not these bug-xenos. Maybe it was a name that just started floating around, despite Kryptmann’s attempts to squash it, and eventually it just caught on. It helps that Kryptman has been in the freezer 90% of the time, and you can’t quash a name if you’re in the freezer.

Given the nature of the Swarmlord in this timeline, one wonders how Kryptmann would react when he realizes the Swarmlord is the literal incarnation of the thing he’s hated all these years.

The only thing I would change is that it was Kryptmann’s gambit that got him excommunicated, rather than the Kryptman Line/cordon plan like in vanilla. The Imperium was on board with the Kryptmann line plan despite its ramifications, because this time they at least allowed the planets to evacuate rather than an Inquisitor suddenly showing up and declaring Exterminatus on a dozen worlds for no reason. It also kind of keeps with the Nobledark theme, because you have the Noble aspect of the poor bastards on the ships doing the Exterminatus despite knowing they will be stuck in the system with the Hive Fleet combined with the Dark aspect of the plan costing irreplaceable resources and working at best as a stop-gap measure.

>>51543738
Octarius was where he went completely off the reservation, stalling the tyranids by siccing the orks on them was too much for the Imperium. Or maybe Kryptmann excommunicated himself, his only goal in life is to destroy the tyranids, but sending them into Octarius has only made them stronger and he feels he no longer deserves the honor of being called an Inquisitor.

From what it sounds like, it seems like Kryptmann is still working with Imperial resources despite his actions. This might actually work better than in canon, in this timeline Kryptmann is working with the full force of the Imperium at his back, and yet he is still only able to inflict glancing blows on the Hive Mind. It may be that like Curze despite being an Imperial asset everyone in the Imperium is downright terrified of him, and the Kryptmann Institute may be as much to keep him under control as it is to fight the tyranids. Despite looking like George Costanza, the sheer amount of crazy coming from Kryptmann makes everyone else nervous, and if the tyranids were capable of feeling fear, they might be nervous too.

>>51543738
>It would also go a long way towards explaining why Kryptmann was going to Tyran in the first place, given that the planet was out in the middle of butt-fuck nowhere: he was going to visit his home.

I was going for it being Kryptman as a child, one of the few to get evacuated, watching the dying of his world from the window of his evacuation craft.

The Tyrannids made Kryptman.

I like the idea that Swarmlord has started to recognize him. He certainly recognizes it.

>>51544383
>Swarmlord sees Kryptman.
>Starts making weird wheezing sound
>Kryptman realizes, or at least thinks he realizes, that it's LAUGHING at him

I like the idea of Kryptman being a child and losing his world, though how would he even get evacuated? Imperium didn't even know about the tyranids until Tyran, and they couldn't have seen it via farseers because what we have on the tyranids so far is they don't appear properly in things like the Starchild Prophecies.

Or could they? I know farseers can see hive fleets in canon, but I didn't know if this was something we put in to boost tyranid threat levels. Or is it Starchild prophecies only?

>>51544845
Perhaps they start to see it coming and cram who they can onto one of the leaving trader ships because of the panic, only to have it unable to escape because of the Shadow in the Warp. Kryptmann is found as the only survivor by the Inquisition/Navy/Marine group that eventually comes to investigate.

>>51542267
>>51543738
>>51543755
>>51544383
All of this is fantastic - Kryptmann has a You Killed My Homeworld, Prepare To Die complex that makes the Tanith First and Only look like rank amateurs, and now after trying to hold back the tide with sheer rage for so long, it's finally spat out a single entity for him to have something to fixate his anger on.

And then after Macragge, he finds out the swarm can create more of them. As if taunting him - and perhaps it is.

>>51541376
>technological advance
I have a hard time imagining Slanneshi cultist being able to research void ship technology. Maybe something like artists building ships with Warp powers based on Eldar Empire designs.

>>51545114
I wouldn't go as far as to say last one alive on the ship. It's a bit too hyperbolic. Although as Tyran was a damp nowhere world it was a small ship. There were less than 200 survivors, all children, from a world of 15 million. They were given refuge at the next safe world and they all drifted apart.

Kryptman, like many others, gets placed in the local branch of the Schola Progenium because child and nowhere else to put him.

If like Vanilla 40k "now" is one second to midnight 999M41 then the clock strikes with Old Man Kryptman in a laboratory carefully dissecting a captured Swarmlord to see how it ticks. The Swarmlord is still conscious.

The capture of the Swarmlord indents him to the Harlequins quite deeply, but it's so very worth it.

>>51545279
It's more like the Crone Eldar have access to the fancy toys the Aeldari please don't BLAM me empire had before the fall, especially since they control the old worlds of the empire. Like how Dark Eldar have better tech than the Craftworlders but ignore basically all of it that can't be repurposed for causing pain. It's not advancement, it's Eldar archaeotech.

Craftworlders and Exodites were more concerned about getting out of dodge than making sure they had every single bit of technology the Empire could produce, and they actually threw away a lot of their good technology (like automation) that would make them vulnerable to She Who Thirsts.

>>51545499
A thought occurs. The Hive Mind uses the Swarmlord as its avatar, in some ways seeing through its eyes, and it takes a decent amount of energy to maintain.

Why hasn't the Hive Mind tried to recapture it or just self-destruct it yet. Does it want to be there?

Can you just imagine Commissar Yarrick and Kryptmann sitting down for a drink and having a "YOUR nemesis. Oh no no no, wait until you hear about MY nemesis" contest.

>>51546241
This might be a big reason in why the Hive won't build more than a few Swarmlords. It's too deep in the Hive and can't be separated by will alone anymore than a human can saver his own right hand by wanting to.

And being so deep in the pain to the Hive Mind is closer. It's possible that Kryptman is causing considerable discomfort to the Hive Mind whilst he disassembles it's avatar.

>>51546662
The Hivemind's is a deadly, viscous pradator on an intergalactic scale, adapted to face natural warp gods and the majority of sapients and conceivable threats. Still, making galaxyfall, the swarm is hungry and fridged, and though it's had a very long time to plan its attack vectors and vanguard forces it is still jumping into a total war in a foreign galaxy after millennia of isolated travel. It's armies of engineered organisms are shown to do pretty well against the products of the Galaxy's natural selection. The psychic bio-weapons of the old ones and humanity (post DAoT men of stone) aren't as well optimized as its bioweapons, but can put up stiff resistance to the point of attrition. The Hivemind has no answer to the gleaming C'tan, the bleak legions of the Necron Star Empire, or even some of the high arcana the Imperium has inherited from the old empires. The Hivemind can comprehend the gashes in the galaxy that were torn as it closed in, but the engorged demon gods slaving living bioweapons to their will is not a familiar or pleasant discovery. Inorganics are usually avoided as a matter of course, warp gods suppressed through its psychic supremacy, and the odd organizations called societies shattered and maddened by its very arrival.

>>51547961
(Cont.)
Between the unpredictable, territorial, and incredibly aggressive technological life in this galaxy, a more or less organized response from galactic civilization which itself is heavily industrialized and engineered, and what appear to be four runaway warp based super-weapons/constructs the hive mind finds that it is entering a hostile environment. Still, it is starved, and deadly, and it must enter the Galaxy and devour enough to fuel another intergalactic hunt or die fighting the local wildlife, even if this galaxy is full of chaos demons and, even worse, robots. If it succeeds, it comes away more horrible than any other cumulative creatures like it, if it does not, it will be hunted, dissected, and purged by the deadly guns and knives of the Galaxy. The horrors the Hivemind might conceive should its fight be turned from predation to desperation beggar conception, but as of the fouty second millennium it falls upon the galactic disc as the hunter.

Bump

>>51547961
>>51548024

If the 'nids are capable of evading detection in farseer prophecies as mentioned by >>51544845 or even if they're just "really slippery to pin down", it raises the uncomfortable idea that the tyranids might have been specifically engineered with the galaxy's dominant lifeforms in mind, given that they nullify some of the major edges that those groups have over their enemies (Shadow in the Warp shuts down warp drives and chokes out Chaos, slipperiness in prophecies makes them difficult for Eldar to pin down if this is canon for this AU).

File: Imperial Fleet Scale.jpg (48 KB, 445x640)

48 KB JPG

Guy who typed up the Lion fluff last thread, need some help with Mathhammer here. Trying to flesh out the five mega-ships a bit more. I am trying to find a size for the Five that is big, but not “stupidly large” to the point that the gravity of one of the ships just being near a planet would count as a form of Exterminatus.

I am unaware of any official figures for any Craftworld or any of the larger ships of the Imperium (i.e., Phalanx, Terminus Est), only that they are “miles” long. The Phalanx is supposed to be so large that a dozen cruisers (which might be around ~9 km long) could dock with it at once and the ship could be seen from other star systems. Almost small moon-sized.

There’s also the issue of where the Imperium, which at this point would be limited to the Sol system, even got the material to make these things if they are too large. The largest non-planetary object in the solar system is Ceres, which has an average diameter of 946 km, most of which is water. Trying to build a ship that is too large might require strip-mining the asteroid belt.

There’s no way the Phalanx or the Rock could ever be built to the sizes they are in canon, given one is supposed to be a DaoT artifact and the other is part of a planet with engines strapped to it. What’s weird is that some sources say the Terminus Est was a DaoT design the AdMech didn’t know how to build, and others say it was built by the Mechanicus.

I'm trying to figure out a size that's reasonable for the Imperium to build, but large enough that someone looking at it goes "yup, that's not a battleship".

>>51550812
The Five were supposed to be a display of solidarity between the newly unified worlds of Sol. These mega-ships were to be commissioned by the Warlord of Earth, built by the Mechanicum of Mars in the shipyards of Luna, and commanded by the Void Born. One was planned to be sent to each Segmentum, to serve as the flagship and headquarters of the Navy in that section of the galaxy. Thing is they took a long-ass time to build, and only two got done by the time the Great Crusade began: the Rock and the Phalanx.

The Rock got sent out as the flagship of the expeditionary force because the large size of the Five meant they had huge hydroponics and could be highly self-sufficient.

The Phalanx was kept in Segmentum Solar primarily to defend the Sol System. This means we have to do something about it in the War of the Beast. Maybe it was the ship that Olly rammed into the Beast’s Rokk, especially since the Beast’s Attack Moons were supposed to be so large they could cause gravitic damage to a planet. After that maybe it was salvaged, retrofitted, and put back into service, dented but not destroyed. Maybe tie it into Dorn’s story in some way.

Terminus Est was supposed to be central flagship of Segmentum Pacificus but that plan got scuttled when Typhon commandeered it after the death of Mortarion and turned it into the headquarters of the Black Templars.

Mirabilis and Nicor were supposed to be sent to the Segmentum Ultima and Tempestus, respectively. No clue how they are doing. Maybe one is the Ship That Moves.

File: 450px-1389680259601.jpg (37 KB, 450x338)

37 KB JPG

>>51550760
The thing is, what if the Tyranids have already encountered similar enemies in its past? So not necessarily designed to target our galaxy by its creators, but the Hive was capable of simply out-adapting everything in previous galaxies that had Warpfuckery skills. And since it already came prepared with counters for *Chaos*, could anyone have a chance at beating it at a game it's clearly very good at?

Sorry if this isn't very well thought out, I need some sleep.

>>51524369
Girlyman's return bodes well for this thread.

>40k getting Nobledark'ed soon.

>>51553292
>Girlyman is back guys
How am I not surprised?

>>51552926
The Hivemind is good at suppressing natural warp gods developed from the aggragate psyche of a galaxy, but not one with a long history of immaterium effecting galactic historical/mythological capital. It's not familiar with warp gods that have developed not just from constant warfare and excess, but self concoious manipulation of their domains. It is also particularly adverse to non-biological threats, and the C'tan, star eaters that operate along fundamental, indivisible precepts since gifted individually by Necrotyr in return for the opposite, and honed to a horrible point by the vicissitudes of the warp.

Additional idea for Trazyn the Infinite: he allows scholars of all races to come and study his collection, provided they have one of two things
A) an impressive resume, or
B) something he finds interesting.
Item B covers a lot, from the items he thinks are pretty, to a uniquely colored creature, anything with an interesting story attached, xenos artifacts that do something, to dreary scholarly papers and databases of information.
And then he goes out and "procures" more. The collection is wide and vast, covering trillions of pages on thousands of subjects (split by general category. If you go by specific subject, check back in a few millennia when the M32-M36 index is done). Some say the real reason Trazyn is allowed to do this is his partially free (and widely distributed) publication of articles, databases, and short stories, the Necron-Nomicon. (Scholars proved in 912.M40 that the name is a reference to a fictional tome of chaos lore, when they uncovered the database recorded as Archeo/Hu/Early-265).
One subject where its collectors are allowed to wander the imperium freely are the Cultural Historians, fighting against war, time, loss of records, and apathy to record the myriad cultures present and past. The occasional discovery of archeohistorical databases of archeohistorical information have ignited cultural revolutions as their information (often recorded entertainments such as shows and music, with attached contextual information) often finds wide release. Mostly, it triggers imperium wide fads, such as the tank crew shows of mid M40, or the existential horror novels of late M36 (most of which took place in a bleak and theocratic version of the imperium), or even the roleplaying game market flood that took place over the entirety of M39.

>>51550864
It could he that they were in a state of half completion when they were found and left over from the DaoT. Also we had in an earlier thread decided that there was not goimg to be a The Ship as such.

>>51553292
>>51553346
Oh no, the raison d'etre for our fixfic will be gone :(

In all seriousness, I am sort of shocked how balls to the wall GW is going with advancing the plot all of the sudden. I can't tell if they're actually listening to fan feedback for more plot progression, trying to emulate AoS's relative success, or just losing their minds.

>>51546241
>>51546662
I think we're anthropomorphizing the Hive Mind a bit too much here. I was the one who was harping on about how vast and overwhelming Oscar's and Isha's minds would be, and this would probably be even more so for the Hive Mind since it's so alien. Losing a Swarmlord would probably barely even register except for vague annoyance and hunger to recover the lost biomass (which would probably have been a significant investment).

Amongst the enlisted forces of the Imperium, there is a hated class of officers, referred to as "Job-stealers". As in, " they steal the enemies job and kill us themselves". Tales of them pass around units on the eves of battle, between regiments on leave, and to young officer candidates in training. They stand in stark contrast to true heroes of the Imperium who gave everything to save people. Colonel Haufmann, who personally held the line against orks beside his commissar, two men making sure the last evacuation ship of Dertanlus VI escaped with the last of the civilians and the tattered remains of their regiment. Private Buckmin, who drew a Croneworld force into a trap filled deathmaze to delay them with a chase, and overdosed on combat drugs solely to extend the amount of time they would take to torture him to death.

>>51554334
The anthropomorphizing of the Swarmlord, and by extension The Hive, could be entirely in Kryptman's head. A view shared by his peers in the Inquisition is that he is bonkers. Useful but bonkers.

>>51553562
I'm imagining that he did let the Imperium borrow some of the things in his collection during The Harrowing.

It is not a thing that has been repeated.

File: IMG_0255.jpg (285 KB, 1920x1080)

285 KB JPG

>http://pastebin.com/KHnPEWnZ
My poorly written second story is done.
>What happens when a vampire becomes too powerful for its own good?
>How can the Inquisition deal with something with no known weakness?
(pic somewhat related)

>>51553672
That was kind of the idea I was floating around. That they built the ships out of a mix of newly constructed components and DaoT wreckage they found floating around the Sol system. That way it keeps the "awesome archaeotech" aspecf of the canon phalanx while also mixing in the "we built this" aspect for the Imperium without making it completely OP and illogical.

The only question is why didn't the Void Born do it first, since they obviously knew the Sol system like the back of their hand. Any ship that big would have huge benefits for a spacefaring population. Maybe they did know about it (or at least the wreckage), but just did not have the manpower, motivation, and/or resources needed to turn something that damaged into a workable ship.

I was under the impression that the Ship That Moves in this timeline is just a really big ship stocked up with a bunch of human and eldar embryos and a bunch of heavily cybered up crewmen just skirting the line of being tech-heresy held in stasis. If the Imperium falls and it looks like Chaos, Orks, Necrons, or 'Nids are going to win, the ship gets launched to the nearest galaxy. Nothing like the massive ship of the original concept.

>>51554334
>>51556558

Agree that the anthropomorphization of the Hive Mind is probably all in Kryptman's mind. The Hive Mind is more a force of nature than a sentient being and even though it has a ready-made avatar it is still uncapable or uncaring of communicating with other beings. If the Hive Mind really cared about Kryptmann, it would send a dozen Lictors to eat his face off in the night.

In terms of the amount of resources required to build a Swarmlord, it probably takes something like 0.005% (number pulled out of my ass) of the Hive Mind's total synaptic energy to maintain. Doesn't seem like much, but this is energy that could be going to thousands of gaunts or other lifeforms. This plus the backlash is the main reason why the Hive Mind doesn't just make an army of Swarmlords

>>51524369

>nobledark

wonder what kind of setting plebdark would be, or poorfagdark, or neckbearddark, and everione on the planet is a basement dweller cauze you cant live on the surface

File: space wraith.png (284 KB, 654x1435)

284 KB PNG

>>51557761
>I was under the impression that the Ship That Moves in this timeline is just a really big ship stocked up with a bunch of human and eldar embryos and a bunch of heavily cybered up crewmen just skirting the line of being tech-heresy held in stasis. If the Imperium falls and it looks like Chaos, Orks, Necrons, or 'Nids are going to win, the ship gets launched to the nearest galaxy. Nothing like the massive ship of the original concept.

Having skimmed through the older threads it appears you are right. It is also commanded by the one member of the Ordo Desolatus of the Inquisition. That job must be the very stuff of Grim and Noble. He went into the freezer knowing that next time he wakes up the Imperium will have fallen and the galaxy will be dead or worse.

It's possible that the 5 Big Bastard ships were never created, yes in part because no man power and shit, but also because of the state of the Warp.

The numbers it would take to crew it would shine out like an all you can eat buffet and with the state the Warp was in at that time trying to sail it would be a death sentence for every one involved.

So they maybe used the empty frames for space habitats.

Unification occurs on Old Earth (except Hy Brasil), Sol Unification starts, Horus crowned King of Empty Space. HOrus commissions a new fleet, the start of the Imperial Navy, and offers places to it to all the Void Born currently living in the 5 Big Bastards.

Now empty Big Bastards dragged to the Luna Dockyards where the renovation starts. The mostly empty frames are then filled with the best that the Mechanicus can install alongside the few remaining DaoT systems that have survived. Sol Unification is completed (except Hy Brasil, FUCK YOU DALMOTH!) and by that time 5 Big Bastards are just about ready to set sail just as the Warp becomes stable enough for them to do so.

Most of the crew are Void Born because of course they fucking are.

>>51547961
>>51548024
I very, very much likes this. The 'nids took everyone else by surprise, but themselves were caught unawares at just how good our galaxy is at fighting itself. I get a distinctly HFY aftertaste, but I literally give no fucks whatsoever. It's nice. Also fantastic is the whole way it goes from expecting to be able to steamroller the milky way as a nice snack to finding out its prey could very well mortally wound it.

>>51558002
>Ship That Moves in this timeline
>5 Big Bastards
Wait, what'd I miss? Last I remember of that AU being mentioned was in one of the earliest threads semi-flippantly - should we really be having the IoM building lifeboats in a setting built for glorious last stands?

File: event_horizon_desktop_192(...).jpg (722 KB, 1920x1080)

722 KB JPG

>>51558169
If you want to get rid of the HFY after tase change it from

>caught unawares at just how good our galaxy is at fighting itself

to

>caught unawares at just how toxic our galaxy is

It's not that we could mortally wound it in some epic confrontation so much as it will get septicaemia when one of our bones punctures it's guts an it gets blood poisoning from the shit that is us.

We will not outfight it. We are more likely to kill it with a terminal case of the trots.

>>51558248
>pic related
mein negro

As for the rest of the post, that's a much better way of putting it.
>mfw Kryptman's Gambit just gave a hive fleet the shits for a few centuries

>>51558222
In the Lion write-up posted last thread, the Rock was described as the super-battleship the Dark Angels took out as the vanguard fleet of the Imperium rather than the chunk of Caliban it is in canon. Because Caliban is such a minor part of the DAs history this time around, there is no reason for the Dark Angels to strap a set of starship engines to it and go tooling around the galaxy on it. Additionally, because it was the ship that the Dark Angels did most of their crusading in, they have as much of a sentimental connection to it as they do to Caliban and the Rock in canon.

It was at this point that I realized that the concept could be taken further and suggested that the Rock was part of a set of super-battleships commissioned by the Imperium, along with the other super-ships in canon (Phalanx, Terminus Est, Mirabilis, and Nicor). Only two got done by the time the Great Crusade started.

In some ways, the Five Big Bastards were vanity projects, but they were useful vanity projects
1) Their construction was a gesture of solidarity between the unified nations of Sol.
2) Keeping the Phalanx hanging around the Sol System meant that anyone trying to smother the nascent Imperium in the crib would be in for a nasty surprise.
3) As to sending the Rock out, having a giant super-battleship show up in orbit around your colony one day and having a conventionally handsome and chivalrous man step out and say “I’m from the Imperium, and I’m here to help” probably did wonders towards winning over the hearts and minds of former human colonies.
3b) It also would act as a display of strength, saying “EARTH IS BACK” to the rest of the galaxy
4) Finally, once all five of them would have been built, you would have a mobile base of operations and flagship in each of the major Segmenta, which in total would justify their long-term costs.

>>51558703 (cont.)
The connection with the Ship That Moves was that I was trying to figure out what happened to the Mirabilis and the Nicor by the present day. The Rock and the Terminus Est went off the reservation with the Dark Angels and the Black Templars, respectively. Phalanx is either still guarding Sol, destroyed, or something to do with Dorn. The question was what to do with the other two. If the Ship That Moves is still a thing, the Mirabilis or Nicor would be the perfect ship to use if we want to get rid of them, due to their sheer size and self-sustainability.

The Five Big Bastards =/= STM. It was just a suggestion for getting rid of the Nicor.

As to the Ship itself, the Imperium may be all about heroic last stands, but it would be stupid of them to not at least plan for a worst case scenario.

In a way, its less a lifeboat, and more like the archetypical "fling a light into the future" trope you see so often in sci-fi (e.g., the Protheans in Mass Effect), so that even if the Imperium loses, something of society will be around for future generations.

>>51558002
It could be that the only reason the Rock and the Phalanx were the only ones created by the time of the Great Crusade is that the Steward thought “let’s wait until we have more systems and resources under our control than strip-mine the entire Sol system”.

>>51553562
as a general note on Necrons, I've been thinking of ways to set them apart from canon in a way that hopefully works with our setting. They are, in essence, a fully realized transhuman/post-scarcity society, but viewed from the outside, and while it can be credited to them that they aren't mindless automatons, their occasional individuality is simply another asset in the subjugation of all within their power to act upon. One would be amiss to say the Necron star empire is in perfect accord, though the Silent King projects as much, and although he has the backing of numerous tomb worlds many of his most prominent lords have alway been the most willful. The Silent King, even his name alluding to effortless command, must hold court with his greatest assets, and though the majority remain in his grasp dynastic rivals have held out since the sleep of the empire. Trayzn the Infinite, Arankyr the Travler, and the Nemesor Zahndrekh are among the most prominent independent lords, moving with Necron imperial space to exert their own agendas. The Silent king has relied heavily upon the Stormlord to reassemble his empire and the Illuminor to reanimate his legions, and to make them new bodies, truly suited to the slayers of gods. He also holds in his camp the Diviner, plotting his grand course through the petty rivals of the galaxy.

>>51558878
Is the Blackstone Fortress megaship used by the Void Wolves one of these five, or is it its own thing due to its much later production and unique circumstances? I think it should be the latter, but often counted alongside the five terran dreadnaughts.

File: 1395013087050.jpg (68 KB, 391x500)

68 KB JPG

>>51559385
It was discover much later although we haven't decided when.

It was discovered by The Sons of Horus. A semi-monastic order of Void Born mystics. When the Void Wolves Legion was broken up they were the smallest faction created. They had one not particularly large ship, a small contingent of soldiers and a smaller one of astartes. They also got the Tomb of Horus (It's a tourist/pilgrim trap, they fired Horus's ashes at relativistic velocities into a star buried at C) and also the Corona Nox.

Their main purpose was to travel the sea of stars and settle disputes between the various Void Born factions and act as judges and teachers of the Laws of Empty Space.

At some point they encountered a Black Stone Fortress. Despite much effort they couldn't switch it on. They had to get eldar master boningers and shipwrights and historians to help. After much prodding they finally got it to be able to move and activated it's short range FUCK ALL OF THE SHIT UP weapons.

The Tomb of Horus and the eldar vessels are amalgamated into the surface of the Fortress, eldar and human ingenuity wrapped around a shard of Old One greatness.

That's all we have on that Blackstone fortress.

Only two others have ever been found, only one of which the Imperium knows of. The war chariot of Erebus, the Planet Killer.

The other the Tau have found. They don't know what it is, who built it or what it does. They don't even believe it is as old as it appears because shit obviously can't be that old. They won't report it to the greater Imperium until they have something concrete about it to offer. Finding something that big and handing it over without even a basic understanding of it would make them loose face they feel.

>>51559604
>few hundred years down the line, war in heaven II is getting hot.
>Tau finally reveal the spare blackstone fortress
>declare their scant historical findings with pride
>imperial navy, mechanicus, and eldar shipwrights must collectively restrain themselves from punishing the Tau for their presumption
>still, they can now surprise their enemies with a second blackstone fortress

>>51559992
I think that would be the only time in the entirety of the history of the universe that both Bonesingers and Tech-priests would REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in unison but not at each other.

File: 1441360026323.gif (1.17 MB, 1000x700)

1.17 MB GIF

Bumpan fr page 9

Just gonna fix the Imperial Dating system real quick
>check numbers is the same
>Year fraction replaced. Dates are shown as MM/DD, with 12 months of exactly 30 days and a 00 month of 5 days (6 on leap years).
>everything else the same.

>>51562857
And I keep forgetting that I have to subtract 1 from the millennium to get the actual date (Because I count the millennium AD as the 0 Millennium). I have to change a few things in my notes now.

>>51559100
I really like the idea that the Necrons have “individuality, but only so long as it serves the purposes of the Empire”. And I really like the idea that Szarekh got the name “Silent King” not only for the reasons originally outlined in the fluff, but because the Necrons seem to carry out his orders without even having to speak.
However, I’m not too sure it’s a good idea to have a bunch of competing independent dynasts fighting for power. One of the main reasons the Necrons are so threatening in this timeline is that the Silent King is able to muster a relatively united front, as opposed to a bunch of squabbling Phaerons like in canon. Most of the independent Necrons have relatively little power. Trazyn may be independent, but he’s still only the ruler of a single planet plus a number of surrounding Dead Worlds in the middle of nowhere whose only claim to fame is how much dangerous tech he has in his collection.
Anrakyr the Traveller could easily be refluffed as a servant of the Silent King. He’s going around waking the remaining Tomb Worlds up so the Empire is back to full strength and the lazy bastards are all ready to go when the Silent King gives the word. Nemesor sounds exactly like the sort of crazy, eccentric Necron lord who would either go independent or go Imperial. He may be so crazy the Silent King cannot assume direct control over him, because he believes he’s still flesh and blood and of course only a robot can be controlled that way.

>>51559385
>I think it should be the latter, but often counted alongside the five terran dreadnaughts.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

>>51559604
I c what you did there.

Now upcoming, the Apex Twins

PROJECT COBRA SILVER SEAGULL (Tundra Cleric 12D)
CLEARANCE LEVEL: MYSTERIA ALTUM BLACK (FATAL EYE RED)
SOURCE: ORDO SECURITAS JUNGLE MUSTANG
AUTHOR: Inquisitor SABINE APEX
INITIAL BRIEFING
On 2.1015.826.M41, Sister Jubblowski (ASSET GLASS PANTHER) was impregnated by a previously undetected Chaos cultist. Immediate countermeasures were taken, hampered by the fact that any attempt to abort the pregnancy would remove her fertility and Isha's blessing. Jubblowski insisted on finding other countermeasures that would deny Chaos a potential weapon and allow her to continue her duties, despite a clear and present danger to herself (Collected Marginalia, Emperor Oscar Steward: It was, to put it bluntly, badass). For a full list of countermeasures, see the attached BLEAK BULLDOG document, prepared by Grey Knight Brother Ryner and Order of the Gilded Rose Palatine Moira, both of whom were integral to Jubblowski's continued security and health.
Shortly after attachment of Brother Ryner to her security detail on 0105.827, Sister Jubblowski received a triple set of mutually exclusive prophecies regarding the long-term results of pregnancy (See attached document CLUMSY RAINBOW). All three prophecies confirmed twin female psykers as immediate result. (Collected Marginalia, Azura Strain, Grand Headmistress of Rehtor Imperia: request meeting with SABINE APEX. Must ensure this inquisitor will not emotionally stunt these girls from detachment).

>>51562857
One wonders why GW never decided to just reset the calendar with the Unification of Earth as the new year 0, and then go out from there. It would allow them to give an indefinite amount of time for the DaoT and the Age of Strife.

Of course, Warhammer 40,000 has a nice euphonic ring to it, so there's that.

>>51564022
On 2.0712.827, at 1111 Standard Imperial Time, Sister Jubblowski gave birth, barely surviving the process. Medical opinion holds she will not be able to safely bear for another three years. Counteracting this is the fact that Jubblowski spent the entire birthing issuing prophecies. Six hours later, a cult summoned multiple daemons to attack and secure the twins. Said plan was cut short when the daemons fled after the girls shredded one without trying. I was there, and I'm torn between joy and horror at knowing what a daemon's shriek of pain and terror sounds like.
Testing has proven the girls (Named Hansel and Gretel after characters from an ancient childrens tale) to be Alpha-Plus Psykers, with a few potential abilities the Farseers are currently unable to determine the nature of. Sister Jubblowski has followed their recommendations and designated me as their caretaker. She followed this by making me lactacte.
A moment of candor follows: I'm scared fucking shitless of the idea. I can go toe-to-toe with a junior Farseer, but that's only when skill is considered – in terms of power a weak one would overpower me. Is putting me in charge of two Alpha-Plus psykers, humans that until now were theoretical, a good idea? Their potential made Eldrad pause. I need backup.
Other than their massive power and the white hair, the girls are of a healthy weight and size, although they are showing signs of more muscular control than normal. Gene tests are being carried out, but are currently inconclusive in any area except their suitability for the Adepta Sororitas augmentations.
RESPONSE OF HIGH LORDS OF TERRA
Inquisitor SABINE APEX, your request for backup has been granted. You are hereby granted leadership of the JUNGLE PANTHER working group, who will aid you in this. Assets are being forwarded to them. May all our gods watch over you.

File: laughter.gif (724 KB, 350x262)

724 KB GIF

>>51563837
>he believes he’s still flesh and blood and of course only a robot can be controlled that way.

Oh fuck that's beautiful.

Holy shit that's fucking beautiful.

Reading up a little on him and yes. Yes indeed Nemesor Zahndrekh is exactly the pro-Imperium Necron we need.

>He doesn't care much for this "Silent King" little gutter oik. Bah humbug and balderdash so he doesn't. Obviously such an uncultured and, quite frankly, barbaric swine must in fact be some sort of tin pot despot rebel or a petty little lordling from one of the lesser races trying to pull a clever ruse.

>The true power in this galaxy, besides his self of course, must be this great bustling Imperium business that everyone is going on about. Indeed not a day goes by when there isn't some sort of news from the border regarding their valiant and heroic efforts against what sound suspiciously like the old enemies of the True Empire.

>In fact he would put money on these High Men of Earth being distant kin or descendants of his own people that waited out the upheavals and desolation. That must be it. They stayed awake and duked it out, this "Imperium" must therefore be The True Empire or at least something not too far removed from it.

And so Nemesor Zahndrekh made diplomatic contact with the Imperium. It took Harlequin Lore-Masters to translate the transmissions and once they figured out what the crazy old bastard was prattling on about they couldn't stop laughing.

Nemesor Zahndrekh of Gidrim and it's protected systems (about a dozen systems all told, only two conventionally inhabitable worlds and one of them only just) are not part of the Imperium but they are very close allies with it. Emperor Oscar deemed it prudent to play along with his delusions rather than risk him waking up and offered him the hand of friendship and invited him to a banquet in his honor to formalize the alliance.

Hey guys, would this work as a quote for our favorite Tyranid-h8ing Inquisitor? He seems to have a very special place in his heart for these specific xenos.

“The Tyranids are undoubtedly one of the greatest threats the Imperium has ever faced, all-consuming in its hunger and insidious in its method of infiltration. I do not care. This Hive Fleet will burn like the rest.”
- Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Kryptmann

File: laughter2.gif (967 KB, 245x180)

967 KB GIF

>>51564317
So far the mad bastard has guarded his parch of space well and has come to the aid of the Imperium on several occasions, even going so far as to temporarily house a rescued ferry convoy on his throne world (near quarter of a million people all told). He said he liked talking to the children. It had been many years since his hall echoed with such simple laughter.

On at least one occasion the Imeprium came to his aid after receiving a message, from one of the ambassadorial team's astropaths, indicating that he was having "a spot of bother with some sort of insectoid life form". Shortly afterwards contact was lost.

Needless to say there were no eldar involved in anything relating to the Nemesor. They are pretty sure that he is going to try and kill them all at some point. Isha wasn't present during the official banquet. She was away on "State Business", an excuse Zahndrekh thankfully believed and took no offense.

Everyone on the Ambassadorial Team is pretty sure that the imposing Necron called Obyron who stands by the Nemesor at all times is aware of how reality is and how his lord is and is merely playing along for the sake of his master. He and the Ambassadorial Team have come to an unspoken agreement. They don't try anything covert and no "accidents" will happen.

File: 1445647197559.jpg (510 KB, 1200x1716)

510 KB JPG

>>51564448
Looks good and appropriate.

I'm imagining him as being completely batshit. Totally bug fuck, bat shit crazy.

He wears a helmet made of lictor skull, his robes and body armour are made of tyrannid skin and chitin, his las-rifle is inlaid with polished 'nid bone and so is the handle of his power sword. He has tattoos depicting every splinter fleet he's responsible for fucking the shit up of. The ink is made in part from their blood. With enough preparation it is possible to eat tyrannid meat and he does. Oh hell he does eat 'nid.

His kill sheet and official record has very little in terms of orks, dark eldar, chaos or anything much else on it for the entirety of his career. Just shit loads of Tyrannids and gene-stealers. This man is the bane of gene-stealer cults across half the galaxy. Gene-stealer are human enough to feel fear, although they seldom have reason to on the collective level. They fear Kryptman.

Other people also fear Kryptman.

His retinue are the only thing close to friends he has. To Kryptman, at least by this point in his life, the greatest virtue someone may possess is their ability to fuck up 'nids. He considers his retinue friends because they do what they are told and they fuck up 'nids with him. They have other virtues and characteristics but those are all secondary unless they relate to making them better bug hunters.

But he does consider them friends, even if they only tolerate him. As he leap frogs through time all his friends are stolen from him by the Time Thief. They endure years that he does not and he is forced to out live them. It is not a thing that makes him happy, but it must be done.

File: bologna-toilet-graffiti-4.jpg (303 KB, 1536x1024)

303 KB JPG

Shit be all archived

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=nobledark

>>51564047
Selected Reports follow:
Daily Report 0419.833.M41, JUNGLE PANTHER Compound (Respa III, Obscurus/Scarus/Helican). Inquisitor SABINE APEX, Reporting.
The girls went missing for three hours today. We discovered them in a nearby town by the simple method of waiting: our psykers can see them when they light their powers up, and they like to use them. Recovery went well, as the fact that we had to hide the bodies was overlooked by the local authorities, who are already used to extreme violence between the gangs. It was a fairly gruesome scene – if I didn't know they had lit up for three seconds, I would guess they had spent hours torturing these men. When asked what happened, they replied “They wanted to do nasty things with us, so we did nasty things to them first. One of them really liked it.” This lead into the same argument that they can't keep other people as pets, no matter what the voices say.
Their therapist quit today. He's been getting extremely frustrated at how easily they misinterpret his statements. And I may have threatened his life over how he never actually tries to treat them like growing children, not static beings. How he got this job I don't know.

>>51565307
Daily Report 0420.833.M41.
That fucking bastard. He was keeping his own records. Thank the Empress the Exodites here like us, and captured him when their seer said so. The things in his luggage... Now I know where the girls were getting some of their ideas from. Ordo Securitas forces nearby have been notified to send the Cohort Religio down here, because some fucking pedo is trying to get the girls as his prophets and brides. The seer, Mornel, has offered to help me shoot them. I think I'm going to take him up on that.
The bastards removal seems to have brought in a change in the girls, who seem to be finally realizing just how serious things are. This lead Gretel to show that he had given her a wig and a haircut so she could continue to switch with Hansel, even after I ordered them to give them a way of telling them apart.
Birthday Report 0712.840.M41.
The girls have been eight years old for five years now. No explanation other than bastard's fetish has been found. Mornel gifted them with frilly green outfits. They are progressing excellently in controlling their powers, but unless they let themselves grow up we won't be able to deploy them without accusations of child soldiers being thrown around.

>>51565347
Daily Report 0925.845
Additional security has been put in place. The girls escaped to the wandering pirate port of Rum And Pour (which I have been told is the recipe for a truly vile, yet enjoyable, drink) three days ago, before returning to us today. According to reports, they caused no incidents, which is bullshit. The pirates are either not talking, or what they did was so minor it passed beneath notice. Therapists have noticed an increase in their psychopathic tendencies.

>>51565367
Final Report from JUNGLE PANTHER Compound, 0003.848.M41
We failed. We failed hard. Inquisitor Oak was stopping by, dropping off supplies and picking up a few artifacts we had recovered on his way to the OBELISK MAZE vault in the Sol system. During his visit, the girls stole his shuttle, and then stole his ship. The ship was recovered unharmed 40 lightyears from here, with only two artifacts missing: a chainaxe recovered from a chaos cult stronghold (OBJECT FIRE HEART 17UM), and a cursed rifle of unknown origin that combines the firepower of an Exitus rifle with the full-auto of a heavy stubber (OBJECT BARRED CAGE 98C). Shortly thereafter, Rum and Pour left the sector. A messenger drone left at their last location held a message to us from the girls: they wished to see the universe, and the pirates seemed like their kind of people. They also called me Mother, and admonished me to not cry or get mad.
My only consolation is that most of the pirates there seem to prefer keeping the Imperium around. I and the tactical assets of JUNGLE PANTHER are heading out to give chase. We will not let Chaos get their hands on these girls, not after all the work we did on denying them this potential weapon. I have no idea what I'm going to do to the girls yet: grounding their little asses seems a little underpowered at the moment.
Inquisitor SABINE APEX, signing off.

>>51564317
>>51564534
It gets better. According to Lexicanum Nemesor doesn’t even remember the War in Heaven. As a result, he might not even recognize the Eldar or have an attitude towards them like an old war veteran “oh right, we got you knife-ears good in the old war, wot wot?”

Oscar might have tried to show him a picture of Isha, to see if Nemesor was on the level, only for the mad old bastard to say “Quite a beautiful dame she is. I say, is she descended from one of the old royal bloodlines? She certainly has that regal jawline. Shame she couldn’t attend on account of official business.” Oscar decided to take this information to his grave, rather than rile the Eldar up by saying that Nemesor had favorably compared their goddess to a Necrontyr Phaerakh. The only Eldar that might be able to tolerate being around him are the Harlequins, and that’s only for the sheer schadenfreude of the whole thing.

Also why am I picturing Nemesor speaking like a posh Victorian-era British gentlemen. As in “Obyron, fetch my Carnifex gun” kind of gentleman.

I can totally see Obyron being the Kif to Nemesor’s Zapp Brannigan. He stays around Nemesor because as bad as Nemesor is, the Silent King is worse, and as long as he serves Nemesor he doesn’t have to listen to Szarekh through clever use of loopholes because he’s “obeying his lord”. He might also feel some sympathy for the old man…er…skele-bot, as crazy as he is.

>>51565032
I wouldn't be surprised if he blames the fact that he outlives all his friends on the tyranids too.

>>51565513
In all fairness it is because of the 'Nids that he leapfrogs through time. If there were no 'nids he would not be doing this. If they hadn't massacred his world and killed his friends and family and people he would have had a normal life.

It is very much their fault he gets to watch all his friends die.

>>51565513
>As in “Obyron, fetch my Carnifex gun” kind of gentleman.
Can you see the pith helmet? I sure as shit can and he would be all about that big game hunting.

Obyron does still love his master. For all that he is crazy he is still Zahndrekh and he owes him so very much.

>>51564030
They probably forgot about the idea of a year zero.
But also at the time of release there was a fad for sci-fi showing how far it in the future it took place on the gregorian calendar.

So I was reading through the Lion fluff we had written up last thread, and I noticed we have a bit of a plot hole regarding the Fallen. The Fallen during the WotB seem to be Franj revivalists more than anything else. The chunk of the Fallen led by Luther in M41 are primarily human supremacists. It sounds like “human-supremacist who is pro-unification but not at the expense of Franj” is the best way to go with Luther, but that still doesn’t explain how his motives shifted over the last ten millennia.

I get that any reasonable motive has long since decayed because Chaos is a hell of a drug, but how exactly did Luther get to this point in the first place? It definitely should shift, because it would seem odd that most of the other nations of Old Earth are about as well remembered by the average Imperial citizen as a modern person remembers the provinces of the Roman Empire, and yet here are a bunch of people in M41 that are still ranting about Franj.

Also how do we get from the point where the Fallen are just ignoring Chaos attacking the Imperium to actively attacking other humans themselves, given by the end of the WotB the Fallen were actively fighting for Chaos. I know we have “Luther was planning to double-cross Chaos and got played” but at some point he had to go from just not participating to actually fighting the Imperium. I also remember we were planning to have one battle in the WotB where the IG held a planet in a bloody stalemate, only to seemingly be rescued by Deus ex Astartes. Unfortunately for them, it turns out those Astartes were the Fallen.

Not saying these are bad, just that we need events to explain the change (Horus didn’t fall overnight). The best I can think of is when Lion confronts Luther he claims he did everything in the name of Franj, and Lion points out that Franj is basically a radioactive wasteland because of him, and Luther snaps.

My uncle was weak. My uncle was a fool.

I loved my uncle. He raised me as his own son, after my own father died. But is it not the way of the world that all children find that their parents have feet of clay.

Horus believed that all he had to do was speak, and people would lay out the fruits of the galaxy before him. That wisdom and reason and, in a pinch, sly cunning would win the day. But he did not realize that some people simply cannot be reasoned with. A trader must speak many languages, and sometimes violence is the only language some people will understand. Sometimes you have to fight, rather than talk, to achieve what you want in life. And if you cannot fight to protect something, then it never truly belonged to you in the first place.

I have heard Lady Malys’ statement. And I offer a counterproposal of my own. There is still something of the sly old man left in me yet. Malys believes me to be weak? Let her bring her fleet before me. Her pitiful excuse she calls a “Black Crusade”. I will devour it. My ships are the teeth of the galaxy. My fleet is the jaws of the void. We will pick the scraps of her ships out of our teeth. The galaxy is a cold and spiteful place, and we are but its emissaries. I send this message on behalf of the Imperium.

Let those who threaten the galaxy burn.

-- Ezekyle Abbadon, upon hearing Lady Malys' announcement of the First Black Crusade

File: The Fallen.jpg (130 KB, 1269x629)

130 KB JPG

>>51567169
>m-muh Franj
For Luther at least, he seems to develop an unhealthy obsession with retaining control over his nation. When the Great Crusade spreads out to world after world, he must have seen how the Imperium not only unified humans but also changed cultures as well. To Luther's eyes, the Imperium was destroying cultures while frighteningly increasing centralisation. His Franjic upbringing told him that this was Ursh in the making, even if Oscar wasn't a tyrant or setting up Chaos oppression. Then the Raid on Nurgle added the xenophobia flavor to the anti-centralization idea that he was spreading to the Dark Angles. The idea would be, the Eldar-Human union was simply a ploy to have humans as willing slaves to the Eldar and an excuse to add another layer of control over the Imperium. When the WoTB starts, the economic mobilization and the military conscription should have frightened Luther on how much control Terra had. Adding to his fear, Eldar integration during the war (from what he thought) was going to lead to the Imperium effectively being ruled by Eldars over time. The fear would shift from the Imperium oppressing humans to the Eldar ruled Imperium oppressing humans. I doubt Luther cared about any of this when his plan to double cross Chaos backfired on him. To the wider Imperium, he was considered a traitor and a cultist when he fought Lion. The motivations to use Chaos to just kill the Eldar would be twisted by the Chaos Gods to becoming to see the Imperium destroyed, then starting over with the human reunification.

Also, this should be the Fallen Dark Angles official theme
https://youtu.be/i8oU5iM2qS4

>>51569491
So the question is when did he cross The Line and become a traitor and a cultist in the Imperium's reckoning? At some point he had to go from "I'll stay out of the WotB and swoop in from the ashes to rebuild afterwards" to "I'm going to burn down the Imperium myself".

It would have to be something bad enough that his brother would take notice and object to. We suggested burning Eldar worlds but I'm not sure Lion would have reacted that strongly given he was kind of uncomfortable with the Eldar. At best he would have been "look Luther, I'm not too fond of the space elves either but they're supposed to be our allies and we don't go around team-killing".

I guess the other major question, beyond when did he start killing humans in addition to Eldar, is why would he be for human unification if to him that means unacceptable amounts of centralization. An independent Franj and a united humanity seem like two mutually exclusive goals.

>>51569945
>independent Franj and a united humanity seem like two mutually exclusive goals
I don't think Luther understands this and probably believes some sort of confederation of planets would all voluntarily cooperate for the good of humanity. They might all help each others by negotiating and exchanging favors amongst each other to survive against xenos threats. This sounds disgustingly similar to Star Trak what with all this talk of a libertarian utopia.

>>51567169
Good stuff anon, interesting adaptation of Abbadon's iconic lines

>>51567169
>>51569491
I think really the only viable explanation for why Luther starts killing people is Chaos corruption, since it seems to counterproductive if he's actually working towards his independent Franj goal. Strong willed Inquisitors have been corrupted and swayed from their goals before, so someone as ambitious and ambivalent about the Imperium as Luther was would probably be pretty vulnerable to losing his way when exposed to Chaos.

>>51571090
Shit, meant to reply to this >>51568466

Mind if I ask abut something I noticed at last thread. Would a thing in >>51505051 >>51505148 >> and >>51505176 be possible. Not the No Russian thing, but specifically a news network that'd report official news, stories and whatnot. Also I remembered someone saying its better for the whole No Russian thing done by human and eldar extremists should have been done during the age of apostasy.

Or is it supposed to be taken place at that timeline for the whole "Oh my god, despite so many years of co-existence, it seems racial supremacy and separatist terrorism is in the rise again" thing?

File: even in death i still suffer.jpg (1.28 MB, 3000x3119)

1.28 MB JPG

bump

>>51567169
>>51569491
>>51569945
>>51571090
It doesn't help that the first xenos the DAs encountered were the Dark Eldar. Also during the AoS, according to the Vulkan fluff, there was at least one band of DEldar that took pleasure in raiding the broken remnants of the Afrique League.

It was some time before the DAs encountered the Watcher in the Dark and the knowledge of them might not have been known to the entire Legion.

So the vast majority of the DAs were in 2 camps.

Camp 1. All xenos are fucking awful
Camp 2. Almost all xenos are fucking awful.

Member when this thread started because someone asked what would happen if the Emps married Isha?
I member

>>51573156
We also remember. Sadly thread 1 was not archived.

>>51550864
Is Nicor still under the command of the Carcharodons/Space Sharks?

If it is then, given the more lax attitudes of the Imperial High Ups, they might not be the reclusive marauders they are in Vanilla.

They are not the most reputable chapter due to the intentionally cultivated mutations and method of warfare that they prefer. They did not inherit the Nicor so much as they found it adrift.

The Carcharodons started out as just any other War Hound successor chapter. They preferred close up and personal killing and they typically employed Angron's methods of straight line thinking and problem solving.

As time went by they started to go weird by increments.

Nicor was lost during the 2nd Black Crusade, assumed destroyed. The exact fate is unknown. None of the ships internal data stores survived and any bones on that ship would have turned to dust long ago.

It was found adrift in real space quite by chance out in the interstellar void 120 light years above the middle of the galactic disc 25k LYs out from the hub in the galactic south east. Half a galaxy away from the Gothic Sector where it vanished.

As a chapter that was seen as falling from grace the Carcharodons were not at the top of the list for new ships, gear or anything else unless they amended their behaviour. True to their nature they refused to be bought by bureaucrats for petty toys. They weren't mercenaries, they had their pride.

The Nicor was officially listed upon discovery in late M40 as Flotsam and Jetsam of the Warp and claimed by the chapter for it's own uses. Not an uncommon occurrence. Specialists were called for to decontaminate it and a mismatch of holy men were called for to exorcise it.

>>51574001
Curiosity of the Administratum and the Ordor Militum was only aroused when the job of cleansing the "acquisition" seemed to take a great deal longer than it should and they sent people to investigate the exact nature of what it was they had found.

They were surprised to say the least and other more reputable chapters demanded the "Space Sharks" hand over the ancient ship.

They had no legal backing to their demands and the Sharks knew it. Fleet Master Cuuthal sent a denial of request letter that basically consisted of derogatory insults and obscenities in the fell speech of ██████████ ███████, which was received as badly as it was intended.

Many a lowly but not unskilled tech-adept would give their right arm to work upon such a grand and venerated artefact of the Imperium's founding and no shortage of technical help was had. With many skilled hands the Nicor was brought back to life. The Imperium now had one of it's old predators returned to it.

With a new base to operate out of and a welcoming port to call home the fortunes of the Carcharodons were drastically altered. Before they had been a dying order, fearsome but withering away a little more with every irreplaceable loss.

By the dying of the 41st millennium the Carcharodons are in their prime.

The Nicor was sailed to deepest Tempestus, where it was always intended to be and placed into the hidden deeps of interstellar space. From there the sharks swarm in the deep.

Their exact numbers are not known but when agents of the Inquisition have run their inspections what is known is that their are many. The Nicor is abuzz with activity.

>>51570414
>>51571090
>>51572491
So it sounds like...
- One of the big selling points of Erebus to Luther was that he asked him to bow to no lord or swear no oaths. Erebus knew that Chaos corruption would more than do his job for him.
- Lion telling Luther that Franj is gone and the survivors could probably all fit on the Rock breaks Luther a little bit on the inside, makes him cross "revive Franj" off his to do list and leaves him with only "human unification, on his terms"
- "Hey, the xenos aren't all bad" was yet another reason along with "loyal to the Lion/Imperium over you" why some Dark Angels refused to fall with Luther. Ironically these tended to be later, offworld recruits than the original Franjic core.

Do we have a reason as to why Luther went from just playing hooky to attacking Eldar worlds? If Luther just did nothing, Lion could have rallied the legion by saying "hey guys, Franj is in trouble" and everyone would have jumped to help. It sounds weird given that in Luther's mind all he had to do was nothing and the Eldar planets would be destroyed anyway.

Also, are the close ties between the modern DAs and some of the Craftworlds in order to hunt down the Fallen still canon, or did we scrap that?

>>51574357
I couldn't find any info on the Mirabilis. I'd like to think along with the Phalanx it's one of the only dreadnaughts to still be doing it's job, but the Ultima Segmentum is just so damn big and all it can do is put out fires.

>>51571905
Broadcast system: Probably, but only system-wide. All messages between systems would have to be sent by ship and I'm not aware if the Eldar have FTL communications. Can't send messages through the warp because it gets distorted to daemon-child whispering on the other end.

The "Remember, No Gothic" or similar incident would best fit in with the aftermath of the AoA. That'a when tensions were highest and separatism had the most bang for its buck. Trying to do so in M41 would be suicidal given the more pressing issues of tyranids, Necrons, what have you. Plus everyone would suspect it's Dorhai almost immediately.

>>51575663
I'm imagining Terminus Est breaking down through over use and sustained beating in one of the Armageddon Wars. Side show.was.an assault on Necromunda, limps its broken mass.to high Necromunda orbit but is so broken it would have to be disassembled completely before it could be repaired and made warp worthy again.

It is decided that it's time to retire the ship.

It remains in high orbit as a commercial port, navy base and general star fort.

Also it's the nearest thing the Templars movement has to a static HQ. Letters get sent here.

>>51576065
This meant for
>>51575565

I fucked up.

>>51575565
Should have clarified, by "job" I meant acting as a base and flagship for Imperial Navy operations, not a pimp-ship for an Astartes chapter.

Page 9

File: 1471349377494.gif (498 KB, 262x200)

498 KB GIF

>>51565513
>The only Eldar that might be able to tolerate being around him are the Harlequins, and that’s only for the sheer schadenfreude of the whole thing.
I now want to believe that the Eldar people never had a word for the feeling of schadenfreude until the alliance with humanity occurred. Just, imagine a Krieger officer and a Harlequin actually having a friendly conversation after a battle, and then he just drops that bombshell. Glorious.
>Harlequin's face when

>>51564022
>>51564047
>>51565307
>>51565347
>>51565367
>>51565401
The formal tone in all this, as well as the storywriting itself, is fucking fantastic. Keep it up. Has a rather SCP Wiki-esque feeling to it, methinks. Good.


>>51565032

>>51564022
>>51578595
I especially like the profusion of ridiculous codenames.

>>51573156
>>51574001
Didn't Thread 1 start off from the idea of translating Last Alliance into 40k?

>>51568466
Yes, yes, yes de la yes. The feel for both Abbie and Horus's characters from this is absolutely perfect.

File: Spoiler Image (340 KB, 802x450)

340 KB PNG

>>51578595
Thanks! I might add more daily reports from SABINE APEX.
Pic related is the reaction I was trying to get with the references I blatantly put in there.
>>51578658
I will admit to having the Laundry Files one too many times, so it has influenced my view of the Inquisition. I wrote some fluff on codenames last thread, and I'll repost here (along with the Month of Murphy, which is what made another anon inspire me to write the Apex twins for this project).
Inquisitor SABINE APEX is part of a relatively recent movement within the Inquisition, where Inquisitors protect their relatives by taking a new, randomly generated, name.

>Codenames: The practice of keeping files under obscuring names, or giving them a reference name, has been common to almost every race of the Imperium since they evolved even the basics of data warfare. Sometimes they are weak, sometimes they are strong, and sometimes... they're just weird.
>The Adeptus Arbites has set the standard with a multi-part scheme: Certain classes of information are given a randomized three word subject structure (Metal/Color/Flower is used for files that deal with other Imperial organizations, while Color/Sector/Predator is used for criminal organizations), with a randomized adverb-noun combination. For additional security, the adverb-noun parts are passed around between unrelated files with a Two-digit+Letter ID attached.
>The Imperial Guard and Navy prefer a more direct Adverb-Noun structure for operation names, and otherwise use the Arbites method, removing the information classes part, but assigning particular words in the first position to different subjects (Which lead to the 4th defense of Armageddon being designated as COBALT COBALT COBALT (Cobalt Cobalt 27Co) Operation BLUE METAL).
>The Inquisition is a mixed bag, with each Inquisitor providing his own codenames. Many use the Arbites method in its entirety, while others go esoteric. One used very direct names, on the premise that nobody expected it. Another named their files entirely in insults (She applied "Operation Fuck the Fucking Fuckers" many times, and yet remained a virgin for almost her entire career), and yet another named every file after pornstars (This lead to great consternation when the JUBILEE BREEDER file was presented as evidence against a cult).

The Month of Murphy:
The Imperium has, from ancient files, learned of Murphy's Law (Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong, and usually at the worst possible time). For a while it was considered either a weapon of Chaos or Cegorach fucking around, until Cegorach himself chimed in. He provided the most concrete knowledge the Imperium has: He is not Murphy, he is pretty sure Murphy does not exist, and Murphy's Law is more like a law of the universe that applies even to the Chaos gods in the Warp.
This lead to Oscar making a very bad decision. It happened while he was on The Emperor's Tour, when he came across a situation that would benefit from his attention: Chaos cults had gripped 45 worlds in a defense-poor sub-sector. He joked that he would trade Murphy a month of minor inconveniences for a quick victory. He got the victory, dealing with all 45 worlds in less than three months using only one chapter of the Astartes, two Regiments of the Imperial Army, and a single battlecruiser as the cultists dealt with one catastrophe after another. Then he discovered that Murphy's Law does not know what the word "Minor" means.
In the span of one month, the following happened:
365 mugs full of hot recaf spilled over his clothes and destroyed
A robe woven for him with metallic fibers blowing the powergrid of an Administratum Sector HQ during a critical database transfer
A 50,000% increase in the number of jaywalking incidents on the planet he was visiting
A misfire during an aeronautical display in his honor burning down their hardcopy backups
25 Inquisitors dying under the very strange circumstance of "spontaneous appearances of pools filled with leaping sharks" while investigating scheming nobles
A previously undetected Chaos Cultist getting Jubblowski pregnant with twins
And his favorite lampshade being possessed by something very strange just so it could constantly yell at him about why his joke was a very bad decision and insulting him over his fashion sense.

>>51578895
Removal of the lampshade just lead to random lampshades around him doing the exact same thing until the month ended.
The entire thing seems hilarious until you renumber that the casualties from that month totaled over 400 billion - 6 times the enemy forces he faced.
To this day, every officer and Inquisitor is taught one very basic lesson: DON'T FUCKING TAUNT MURPHY.

File: Spoiler Image (28 KB, 490x585)

28 KB PNG

>>51578895
Oh gee, I wonder who could possibly be behind this.

>>51578942
Murphy's Law is the Natural Enemy of Tzeentch. Murphy is also the Natural Enemy of Complicated Plans.
In a galaxy filled with schemers and complicated plans, he is the apex predator.

>>51578722
>Didn't Thread 1 start off from the idea of translating Last Alliance into 40k?

That was one of my favorite parts of the whole thing. That and the sociology and history of how an Imperium would work that isn't a theocratic hellhole.

>Yes, yes, yes de la yes. The feel for both Abbie and Horus's characters from this is absolutely perfect.

There was one issue I had while writing this, which is I worried that Abbadon's viewpoint made Horus look weak. I didn't outright say it, but Abbadon's view of Horus in this statement is very, very biased.

Horus wasn't as much of a weakling as Abbadon claims. Horus was the politician. He saw things long term. He was more than willing to orbital bombard the shit out of someone, but not if he could get something out of them first.

Abbadon was the military brat. He grew up in a largely post-unification world where alliances weren't fickle things that had to be negotiated with care. When Horus grew up space was merely uncaring and one needed all the help they could get to survive. When Abbadon grew up space had become actively hostile and had to become militarized in response. So they had very different worldviews.

The other thing is Abbadon is saying this in response to Malys saying "Let the galaxy burn". In every 40k AU, it always seems like whoever ends up leading the forces of Chaos ends up uttering this line. Abbadon in this case is basically saying "no u" to Malys.

He's also basically puffing himself up by saying "I am not my uncle. I am not going to negotiate with you. I am going to blast you into space dust

>>51579133
>Horus wasn't as much of a weakling as Abbadon claims...
>Abbadon was the military brat...
>Spoiler
Anon, this just gets better and better with every fucking post.

>>51578520
I love it.
Just imagine an Eldar child learning their language and they come across Shadenfreude in the dictionary.
"Teacher, what is schadenfreude?"
"It's a human word, given to us by the Kreigers."
"Those assholes that don't let the Godly Kegger party with them?"
"That's another human word, kegger. And yes, the Kreigers do not let the Dark Carnival visit them."
"But what does it mean?"
"Schadenfreude is feeling joy at the unfortunate circumstances of another."
"... That really fits with both groups."

>>51579389
Given that Krieg going to shit was really recent in Imperial history and it used to be a really nice planet, it could be that Ceggers sent the Dark Carnival their way because he thought they needed "cheering up". He simply miscalculated just how much things had changed on Krieg.

File: SPACE SHARKS.jpg (412 KB, 446x900)

412 KB JPG

>>51574357
So from this we can conclude that the demented bastards see themselves as some sort of rebirth of the Legions of old.

They got one of the 5 Big Bastards, as Magnus (I'm guessing) called them and are upping their recruitment to match.

I'm going to suggest that the Nicor is kept at a nice central location in Segmentum Tempestus. It just sits out their and acts as a sort of hub for the Carcharodon fleet who make patrols. They specialize in preemptive strikes and shit. A more respectable chapter might look at an ork empire and leave it alone so as not to draw it's ire. Imperium can't afford total, constant war on every possible front.

Space Sharks take one look at the nearby orks and exclaim "I swear 2 christ im goin 2 knok U da fuk out swear on me mum!" and then they engage in a preemptive war to destabilize the orks by killing their leader. This does in the short term give the Imperium breathing room. In the medium term it incites the Orks to a war of retribution once they do get their shit together. In the long term this ensures that they never build up enough to get a proper WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!! gaining momentum.

"Run away n tell Ur friends da stars belong 2 umanity Ur day is over, bruv!" - Fleet Master Cuuthal, transmitted to the fleeing orks of botched WAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!! Steelmaw.

Current estimation for number of astartes in the Carcharodons could be anywhere between 3,500 - 6,000. Highly trained soldiery (failed aspirants) and a locally grown batch of what may or may not be faux Sororitas could number as high as 10,000 - 12,000 in grand total. Fleet strength is hard to gauge due to it being constantly active but contains at least 30 warp capable vessels of vary classes, not counting the Nicor itself.

They have no real large scale strategy. They just lash out at anything that "Look like it's avin funny ideas". Oddly it's an approach that seems to be working more or less.

File: pacific-rim-idris-elba.jpg (55 KB, 874x482)

55 KB JPG

Guys, I need crazy action movie plots and dialogue for my write up of the Aspects of Steel section of in-universe scholarly article "Entertainment in The Imperium; An Overview". Sassy Idris Elba as a Space Marine is mandatory.
Because my brain says I must make references, and give the main character a "fuck the apocalypse" speech.

>>51579558
Sounds good. Only question is why do they sound like a cross between orks and a texting British chav?

>>51579633
Because the Deffwotch happened. And they ran with it.

>>51579590
"Nowhere in the Codex Astartes does it say I have to put up with your shit."

>>51579633
Because they have 2 recruitment criteria.
1. Loyalty to the Imperium
2. Can hold bolter right way up best out of 3

Also they have spent too long out on the edge of space, recruit a lot from the underhives and don't care much for classical education.

That half orkish sounding shit is their version of Low Gothic. It's High Gothic degraded and broken from lack of outside interaction. It is not derived from orkish but it has arrived at a similar place.

It also makes them appear a lot stupider than they actually are.

Also I just found this
http://jorjeade.deviantart.com/art/u-wot-in8r-427785550

They get along surprisingly well with the very minor craftworld Sethoywan who are considered by the other craftworlders to be a reckless and stupid to the point of self parody. But not in a good way like Saim-Hann.

File: Fallen Dark Angles.jpg (99 KB, 775x1052)

99 KB JPG

>>51575565
There must have been some event that forced Luther to action rather act as the passive observer. When the fighting stalled for Chaos as they approached Terra, the Imperium would have diverted forces from Ultima Segmentum to halt The Beast. Mustering the Imperial forces to defend Sol and other systems, they could delay Chaos long enough to let the Imperium fully mobilize. The Beast care not for such things as it keeps attacking different worlds in the hopes of crippling the Imperial industry to starve out the defenders. Crone Eldars, on the other hand, planned to launch an offensive on the weakly defended Maiden worlds of Ultima Segmentum.

The idea was to force any Imperial reinforcements to defend Ultima Segmentum instead of Segmentum Solar, leading to The Beast reaching Terra in time. Erebus being sent with Luther to lead the Dark Angles to defend the galactic north of Ultima Segmentum. Somehow acting as an advisor to Luther, Erebus secretly brokered a non-aggression pact between the Crone Eldar and Dark Angles under Luther. The advisor just wanting to spread Chaos, would see to it that Luther took the first step to treason. The initial reaction was that of disgust for working with xenos enemies but Erebus pled that the Dark Angles at least not fight Crone Eldar when they are attacking Maiden worlds. These plans from Erebus were carefully reviewed by Luther before being deemed acceptable.

At first, the Fallen Dark Angles simply delayed in deploying to defend Maiden worlds. It evolved to actively disrupting orders, creating confusion, and slowing other Imperial forces. There were even Fallen Dark Angles just disengaging from combat when facing Crone Eldar. After a while, the offensive grinds down as the Imperial use overwhelming forces to counter-attack. The change in the tide of war pushes Luther to desperate action when believing that if Chaos failed to kill enough Eldar, the Imperium would be taken over by Eldar puppet masters.

>>51581375
I like it. It fits well. It was the last step on the slippery slope from which there is no getting back.

http://pastebin.com/xZmvUMGu
The Aspects of Steel write up is here.
If anybody else wants to run with it by creating more for it, go right ahead.

>>51581656
I'd buy the box set special edition of that.

>>51550812
Borrow mass from stars.

File: Fallen Angles.jpg (198 KB, 640x613)

198 KB JPG

>>51581375 (cont.)
Citing the reasoning of "Preventing the Eldar galactic conspiracy from coming to fruition," Luther orders the Fallen Dark Angles to burn down and exterminate Maiden worlds under the suggestion of Erebus. When Luther was questioned by an officer as the Fallen DA bombarded from orbit, "Should this be considered treason?" He replied with "The Xenos should never be considered allies as their intent are hidden and malicious. Eldar less so, every scheming to plot the enslavement of the human race. As for if this action should be seen as disobeying orders, how can one be loyal to a state that is disloyal to its citizens? This Eldar union betrayed the humans who toil, sweat, bleed, and died for the foundation of this Imperium on the fields of Terra. Seeing as this war showed the tight grip of Terra over what should have been free states, the home of a tyrant is already built, all there needs is a tyrant to inhabit it. Unfortunately, we were the carpenters. Mark my words brothers, the Imperium already planted the seeds its own destruction."

Growing out of control, the Fallen DA willingly slaughter Eldar civilian and soldiers alike as they descend down from the heavens to Maiden worlds. Making sure to leave no Eldar alive after the orbital bombardment, the Fallen who participated in these cleansing operations held joyous feelings in seeing Eldar die. Loyalist Dark Angles once after hearing reports of this, would believe that the Fallen have gone mad in openly attacking allies and must be put down. Lion did order Luther to stand down yet it was ignored as Luther order the Fallen to open fire at "humanity traitors" which started the conflict between the Dak Angles. Originally considered too dangerous, but now the Fallen allowed Chaos Warpcraft to be used amongst themselves. Erebus encouraged the Fallen to accept Chaos Undivided as a means of survival from the hostile Imperium.

>>51582450
Sounds kind of like what I was had scribbled down as about the best I could figure out so far.

- Luther pulls a false flag operation, saying the Eldar have turned on the Imperium. Most of the DAs shrug and go along with it, since they were used to Luther being the spokesman for the Lion, because Lion’s personal skills a shit. Burn a bunch of Eldar Maiden Worlds.
- Lion comes back, goes WTF and goes to confront Luther over it. Luther declares Lion a traitor and orders the Dark Angels to kill him. Complete confusion ensues as some DAs obey Luther, some realize Luther’s lost it, and others are like “I don’t even know what’s going on anymore”
- This even causes Luther to lose it even more, convinced that “the entire Imperium is against him”, and he starts burning human worlds in addition to Eldar ones
- Ironically, the fact that Lion was so quick to jump in and do something about the Fallen earns him the gratitude of a lot of Craftworlds, despite Lion always being kind of uneasy with Eldar, which is why the loyalist DAs have contacts with them in the present day.
- Lion is so busy trying to stop his men from killing each other that he never gets the chance to return to the defense of Terra. Just as planned.

>>51582342
Not sure if the Imperium has that level of tech. That's almost like Necron level stuff. Keep in mind at this point the Imperium is only limited to the Sol system, and they want to cobble together the biggest gun they can make before they poke the next system over to see if anyone is home.

>>51550812
>>51582342
The question is not "where did they get the materials?". The question is "How willing were they to strip mine the oort cloud?"
There is a shitload of usable mass floating around our solar system. You just have to know where to find it, and how to use it. This is aided by any ship having an actually rather low density: no use building it if you can't put crewmembers in there.

>>51579558
>>51579633
I dunno, this is straying pretty far from canon with no particular need for it. I feels like it bears saying that we're try to stick pretty close to canon and only retconning when things are incompatible. I know one of the reasons I actually like this AU is that things are recognizable instead of being wholesale rewrites that happen to have space marines

http://pastebin.com/6vTbxiUf
rewrote the augmentations for the Sororitas

>>51585526
Just some initial thoughts while skimming.

>Rentor's ovaries
Not a physiologist, but estrogen and testosterone seem to be able to swap between each other pretty well (happens in baseline humans all the time). Maybe instead of modified ovaries you just need an artificial secondary adrenal gland. The adrenal gland stimulates the ovaries to produce excess estrogen, which it then converts to testosterone and artificial combat hormones. Thing is, the amount of stimulated estrogen is so high it overrides what would be the masculinizing effect of the testosterone. It would also explain what happens to the Fraternis: they get an overdose of testosterone.

>Junghill's gland
May not be necessary. Human females produce all of the eggs they will ever have in their lives early in development, rather than continuously as in spermatogenesis. All you have to do is make sure the retrovirii don't target the already existing oocytes, which should be easy since the oocytes share a dramatically different genetic code (haploid) than the parent.

>slightly higher percentage of body fat
Not too sure about this, but I sort of get because Isha. Though it bears saying that due to the way human bodies work as long as the percentage isn't enough to cause obesity that's probably where it would end up.

>>51585960
Genetics and hormones are not my strong suit, mostly because my mother was a naturopath of the synthesis school, which mostly focused on supporting the immune system and the body's systems in general to keep better health through targeted medicine regimes.
Not surprised I fucked up on those.
I could explain the increased body fat percentage as a slight uptick in the malabsorption rate of vitamin E. If any of the treatments include lithium oxide, that would more than adequately explain it (but possibly require a reason for it only being a slight increase of body fat)

>>51585421
Which parts are straying far from canon? Asking this in all seriousness, if there is a problem let's try to find a solution.

In canon the Carcharodons are either supposed to be crazy-ass Terran Raven Guard or loyalist Night Lords/World Eaters, and that's the reason why no one trusts them. Since no legion fully turned traitor, there's no reason why the Munitorum would consider them inherently untrustworthy (unless they're sent to the back of the line for being assholes like Marines Malevolent). And since Corvus Corax was able to oversee the Raven Guard from the start, the Earthborn Raven Guard aren't a bunch of nutters.

Actually, the Carcharodons might work better as Night Lord descendants than World Eaters, since they are supposed to be Polynesian-themed and Kurze was actually from Polynesia in this timeline.

The spelling...yeah, I kind of see it too.

File: free weights.png (176 KB, 456x367)

176 KB PNG

>>51585526
>Sensorium
Useful for combat and general information gathering.
>Dermal Weave
Effectively makes most knives less lethal.
>Reflexor Programming
Perfect for CQC or slight of hand actions.
>Krezeler’s Organ
>can prevent cancers
These Sisters can become real beef cakes can't they?
>Lymph Virus
>Why won't you just die already?
>Healing virus, son!

>Rentor’s Ovaries
>Back up, that ass too fat!

>Junghill’s Gland
Oh hey, my story of those captured Sisters with a Witch-Doctor is fanon.
>Skeletal Reinforcement
Nice idea to use non-metallic materials, as metal would cause all sorts of problems not to mention the body could crush itself under its own weight.
>Armor Control Plug
I'm sure these things are hooked up to the spine or head, seeing as they effectively act like Black Carapace.

>>51586486
> captured Sisters with a Witch-Doctor
Never read that one, actually. I got the idea from an anon telling me that the sisters needed to not be able to pass their augmentations on. And then proceeded to fuck up on my knowledge of reproductive systems.

>>51586105
A few aspects. First and foremost, the Carcharodons are supposed to be like their namesake: enigmatic and silent, emerging from the blackness of space to viciously strike without warning. They fight in utter silence and are pretty much supposed to be Jaws in human form ("lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll" and so forth). Is it a bit edgy? A bit, but it's rather baffling to me that whoever wrote that blurb decided to turn them into space chavs for whatever reason.

Secondly, the huge numbers of Astartes goes against their fluff, since they're supposed to be perennially undermanned and undersupplied since they roam the outskirts of Imperial space, and the numerically few, solitary hunters aspect riffs again on their sharkiness. The huge numbers also muscle in on the Black Templars narrative territory, as I believe we've said in this AU the Templars have retained their canon 10k+ numbers.

>>51586082
Not bad, but does the implanting stuff in the tits and ass smell a bit of magical realm? As for body fat, I imagine an active front lines Sororitas would be shredded. Elite female athletes like Olympians are usually extremely low bf% and the missions Sororitas go on are way more hardcore than athletics.

File: Sister of Battle.jpg (40 KB, 736x443)

40 KB JPG

>>51586564
Crone Eldar witch-doctor tried to breed an army of superhuman slave warriors using captured Sisters. The Securitas Sisters had previously lured CE raiders and cultist to attacking a base with a fake Titan inside as the CE attempted to steal it. Working with the local Guardsmen, the Sister curbstomp the raiders. The witch-doctor try to impregnate the Sisters with sperm to fail, then injected an embryo to grow inside the Sister in hopes of developing into like them which failed, finally the witch-doctor cloned them to only find out the clones were normal humans, unlike the Sisters. The frustrated witch-doctor killed the Sisters by splicing them to only find out the Sisters had all sorts of augmentations unseen to the naked eye.

File: hammerhead school.jpg (19 KB, 500x333)

19 KB JPG

>>51586752
Hadn't picked up on the Carcs muscling in on the Black Templar's narrative territory.

Not the guy who wrote the Carcharodon fluff, but maybe we could refluff the numbers as something like a reef shark or hammerhead school. The Nicor is their central base, but the Carcharodons go patrolling around their territory in small patrols. But when they find something good, they send out a signal to other Carcharodons and the chapter descends on the target like a swarm.

Black Templars fight as a solid wall of muscle marching to war. Carcharodons are like a feeding frenzy.

The Carcharodons would have to be at least a bit friendlier with the Imperium, seeing as if they tried their canon tactic of raiding Imperial worlds for new recruits they would get declared renegade real fast. But I see the point about enigmatic, silent hunters.

>Not bad, but does the implanting stuff in the tits and ass smell a bit of magical realm?

This guy (>>51585960) here. This is what I was a little worried about.

Also, didn't we decide to not use the black carapace thing, to drive home the point the Sisters are more like really high-quality Thunder Warriors and the Black Carapace is what makes the Astartes the go-to super soldier for the Imperium in general?

>>51586752
>magical realm?
Nothing actually gets implanted in there. Increase in the amount of body fat retained is a side effect.
Have you seen an actual MMA fighter? They still have those awesome muscles, but it's covered by a layer of fat that helps protect the internal organs.
Elite athletes tend to focus on a few related areas of prowess, and looking good. Having a low body fat percentage is actually detrimental to your health.

>>51585526
Are Space Marines sterile?

In a previous thread it was mentioned that one of Jubblowski's daughters was a senior skald on Fenris and her father was Lukas the Trickster.

>>51588687
I assume here that they are. However, many of them keep semen samples from before their initiation on hand, and many of them knock a few women up before they go into it (I assume they get tested for genetic compatibility for the process before they go into the testing). This ensures they maintain a gene pool to pull from.

>>51588767
Also, on the armor control plug: I mentioned specifically, but should've explained that it only controls the information and communication systems. It doesn't allow additional control over the rest of the armor, making its users just as clunky as any other sister.
I restricted it by rank, because at the minimum rank to be considered for it, the user is commanding 1000+ sisters in battle, making it almost required to maintain command and communication in the heat of front line battle.

Explaining the body fat percentage thing: the human body needs fat. It serves as energy storage, but the body also hates using it, and it requires a large initial caloric investment to start burning it. Drop below a certain percentage and your body will refuse to touch it, instead focusing on burning literally everything else in your body for energy. I almost went through that as a teen thanks to my mom's cooking (may the Emperor slay that fucker).
A healthy percentage for a woman is 21-30%, but can be higher based on genetics. Female bodybuilders will try to aim for 14-20%, but suggest going no lower than 10-12%. You start getting really defined abs at 12-15% depending on where your genes say to distribute your fat.
Basically the sisters maintain 15-25% body fat, depending on base genes, diet, and exercise.
If any of you watched the super bowl halftime show today, Lady Gaga's body shape and body fat percentage is going to be your base figure.

>>51587137
Black Templars are a diffuse bunch with no home that spread themselves across the entire galactic disc.

Carcharodons operate from a static hub and just kind of fuck shit up in their jurisdiction, nebulous as their borders are.

Also Bts have a code of conduct. SSs not so much.

>>51575663
>The "Remember, No Gothic" terrorist attack on a space port

Wether or not the "Remember, No Russian" type of incident will be done by human or eldar seperatists. The targets will always be on human lands or territories.

Because unlike human civies, eldar civilians, even those who're civies their entire lives and not of military or warrior path walkers, are not easy targets. Given how eldar tend to be magic users and martial artists themselves.

So yeah, wether the attacks are done by human or eldar terrorists, the victims and targets for the false flag attack(s) are bound to always be human civilians due to them being easier targets than eldar civies.

File: hammerhead-sharks-pictures2.jpg (27 KB, 624x416)

27 KB JPG

>>51587137
>>51586752
>>51586105
Oh fuck that's a good image.

The Nicor is the big fucking reef where the hyper-predators gather and wait.

Sometimes they send out patrols that drift through the sectors lazily, surveying their territory with cold dead eyes. They are the top of the food chain in these here stars and everyone knows it.

Sometimes someone will be dumb enough to shed blood in their realm and they are attracted to it. They swarm out of their patrols and their half sleeps and descend upon the war with a disturbing passion very much like a feeding frenzy.

And there are reports of them eating the enemy.

They are secretive in that you can't go to the Nicor by accident because it's out in deep space rather than in orbit. If you go there it's because you chose to go there and they do not allow visitors. This isn't the club house for social gatherings. This is where monsters sleep. They secretive in that they don't allow outsiders into their ships and they don't file reports.

The only time the Inquisition have been allowed on the Nicor was when they had a writ from the Emperor himself and the authority to declare war on them if they refused. They were given the exact minimum cooperation that was required.

They are somewhat like a Black Templar/Space Wolves cross if such a cross was founded by Curze.

>>51588687
Keep in mind that Space Wolves aren't Astartes.

>>51588687
Vulkan, Khan, and Sanguinus (off the top of my head) all had known children. However, they probably had kids via artificial insemination through frozen sperm collected prior to becoming an Astartes, as >>51588767 suggested.

>>51588822
Ah, so its like Termie armor. Good stuff, but so scarce (either due to expense or rarity) only the higher ups have it.

>>51587205
>>51588968
I think it was the "side effect of Isha helping" that made people think magical realm as opposed to MMA fighter (which makes more sense), since we know how Isha tends to think.

>>51591820
Russ also had many children (all daughters) so if ye take this into consideration with Lukas the Trickster it would seem that Dog Soldiers, at least some of them, can have children.

Although all mentioned have so far been female. Perhaps the Canis Helix destroys the ability to produce Y chromosome sperm or something.

>>51565513
>>51564534
>>51564317
Oh sweet Jesus. That is good shit.

It mentions that there are 2 inhabitable worlds in his domain even if one of them is pretty fucking shit.

For shits and giggles can the least shit one be settled by Tau. I'm imagining them as having regressed biologically back to the pre-caste tau by interbreeding when the caste system broke down.

They are pretty substandard in terms of technology, they have shit from the early days of the Tau's first steps into the galaxy. It is suspected that they are the descendants of one of the early and mysteriously lost colony ships.

Nemesor Zahndrekh considers them to be quaint and primitive but with a rustic charm. They also show him, as their lord and master, proper tribute and reverence on the occasion that he visits them. So he lets them have the planet.

It's the more pleasant of his two inhabitable worlds but he wasn't using it. Also a lord should be judged not by how he treats his equals and betters but by how he treats those beneath him of whom he has no reason to fear. That is the mark of a worthy lord. That is why the Silent King is a despicable little oik and no king of his say what.

Although the least shit of the two planets it's still pretty shit. Insufficient o-zone layer and barely 25% sea cover. You can live there but it's not a holiday resort.

>>51590127
>Who goes there?
>Inquisitor Genevieve?
>No Inquisitors allowed on Nicor!
>I have orders to inspect it.
>On who's authority?
>The Emperor
>Well we could always keep you locked out.
>I can have the Imperium declare war on your marines!
>[grumbles in shark]

>>51592182
>obligatory TAKE THE KNOT post

File: grump.jpg (27 KB, 450x290)

27 KB JPG

>>51592795

File: Tzeentch_Architect_of_Fat(...).jpg (202 KB, 1024x1117)

202 KB JPG

>>51592182
>Although all mentioned have so far been female. Perhaps the Canis Helix destroys the ability to produce Y chromosome sperm or something.

I have a more plausible explanation for Russ' unusual situation.

>>51592795
>>51593270
wolfen smut when

>>51588687
>>51592182
Actually, has Jubblowski had any known male children? All of the children we know of so far that have names are female (APEX twins, Abbess Cain, etc.)

Also
>Lukas the Trickster
>Lukas
>Loki

I just got that.

>>51593397
Oh god that crotch maw! That has to be a Chaos STD.

>>51594312
Didn't you know? Lady Malys took that STC from the Imperium during the 2nd Black Crusade.

I had a thought.
The alliance between humanity and the Eldar presumably means that humanity has access to the Webway, and uses it to shuttle reinforcements and supplies around the galaxy quickly.
At the same time, some of the Imperium's greatest opponents are the Chaos and Dark Eldar, who would also have access to the Webway.
Therefore, it seems likely that the Webway would itself become a major front in the wars between Chaos and the Imperium.
So, I have a question: what are conditions in the Webway actually like, and what would combat in it be like?

>>51591820
Well, it is sorta magical really. You still have that impact distributing layer of fat, with average breast size being slightly larger than the average. However, the T&A is the first body fat to go, just ask any woman just how much their tits shrank before their belly did.

>>51595644
Only a few human forces are allowed to use the webway, since throwing too many undisciplined potential psykers in it is asking for trouble.
It is a major front, but thanks to damage and multiple routes, what makes it valuable is the planets you can get to.

>>51595816
>since throwing too many undisciplined potential psykers in it is asking for trouble.
Wait, does that mean Tau would be allowed to use the Webway freely?

Anyway, I was thinking of a potential plot:
Sometime in, I dunno, late enough that the human/eldar alliance is very solid, The Imperium decides to launch an assault against Commorragh through the Webway to try and exterminatus it, because fuck them. Obviously, this goes horribly wrong, with the attacking force being shredded by the DEldar's superior knowledge of the Webway around Commorragh, hit-and-run tactics, pre-emplaced traps and minefields, etc. Utter debacle.
As they withdraw, the Imperial forces try to deal as much damage to the Webway around the Dark City as possible with vortex bombs and the like, in order to prevent pursuit and, hopefully, bottle up the DEldar in their city for lack of safe routes in and out of the city. Not a total success, but the end result is that both the Imperial attacking force and the Webway around Commorragh is utterly savaged, curtailing raiding activities to some extent.
Maybe this is part of why the DEldar ally with Chaos, even? With their current position in the galaxy becoming increasingly untenable with their ability to move through the galaxy damaged and the prospect of more strikes once the Imperium has recovered, doing something dangerously radical might seem the only way for them to maintain their power. Whether or not that's actually true is irrelevant, just so long as they feel like they've been backed into a corner.

Thoughts?

>>51595644
>>51595816
I think the generally accepted list of humans allowed to use the webway is;

Emperor and his Custodeus
Grey Knights
Inquisitors and retinues
Space Marines
Maybe also Sororitas

The problem is that the webway is slightly reactive to thought. Too many undisciplined minds walking its winding paths would cause it to change shape or rupture and make it useless.

Craftworld and Exodite eldar disciplined psycologically from a young age so they have little impact on it. Dark eldar have calloused minds all turned in on themselves so they aren't too disruptive. Chaos eldar are few in number and nobody can do shit about them in any case.

Limiting the use of the webway to the most driven and focused specimens of humanity limits damage each individual can do but also how many there are.

There have been exceptions. Prince Yriel marching half a million Kriegers through it as an example. He got into some deep shit for that.

The restrictions are enforced by the simple act of having a monopoly on guides. Humans can't navigate that shit. Most eldar can't even navigate that shit. You have to be a specially trained eldar or a harlequin or an employee of the Black Library to be able to navigate that shit.

There is one exception. Possibly two. Ahriman of the Deamon Breakers but he can't really be classed as human and Inquisitor Jaq Draco who is a fucking fruitcake.

>>51596480
So my idea here
>>51596258
Is likely untenable then, at least as a major campaign vs. Space Marine/Eldar commando strikes.

>>51596673
Wasn't there a canon battle in Commoragh where the Space Marines rammed a Battle Barge into the city to fuck shit up and steal back some prisoners or something? That's pretty similar.

>>51597127
It was Salamanders. Turns out it was Vect's way of removing political opponents so he could tAke over the city.

>>51596258
The first problem I see here is that "crusade into Commorag", even at the peak of the imperium's power, is a sound move only relative to "crusade into the Shah-Dome". The canon attack on the ports of Commorag only happened because vect let them in to smash his rivals. Then drove them burning and bloody, thinking they scored a victory by freeing some slaves.
The second is that the dark kin are only held as apostate and servants of the ruinous powers only after Vect and Malys marry their kingdoms together, which is pretty late in the game.

File: like this but with daemons.jpg (877 KB, 1215x792)

877 KB JPG

>>51595644
>what are conditions in the Webway actually like, and what would combat in it be like?
Master of Mankind describes the webway as basically being like one of those glass tubes you see in aquariums but with daemons instead of sharks. Throw in some people (read:Eldar) who actually know how the Webway works and it turns into Inception.

>>51596480
I don't think Space Marines and Sororitas are even allowed regular access to the Webway, except under exceptional circumstances.

Keep in mind the Eldar don’t actually know how to “fix” a broken section of the Webway. The Webway was an Old One creation, and although the Eldar know how to use it, they don’t know how they made it or have the tools to do so (fucking Luther). That’s one of the main reasons they’re so nervous about letting large numbers of unrefined psykers running around in the Webway. They know how to put a piece of duct tape on if there’s some minor damage, but if there’s major damage they have to just seal off the section to keep it from leaking daemons.

>>51597541
DEldar were raiding Craftworlds and taking Craftworlder and Exodite slaves as early as the WotB.

>>51596258
>>51597484
>>51597541

Agree that intentionally crusading into Commoraugh would be a spectacularly bad idea. Also the reason for the DEldar/Cronedar alliance is Vect and Malys got hitched. Most of the Commoroughites don't like it, but Vect doesn't give a shit what you think.

Don't consider this a vote for or against the idea, but if you really wanted to have a battle in the Webway you could have the Imperium trying to chase a larger-than-normal force back into the Webway, only to end up getting stuck in Commoragh, with Vect using the battle as an excuse to eliminate those Archons who have the greatest risk of challenging his rule after his marriage to Lady Malys. No one will miss the undertrodden of Commoraugh, but to get rid of an Archon you need a little more finesse.

>>51596480
There have been exceptions. Prince Yriel marching half a million Kriegers through it as an example. He got into some deep shit for that.

That reminds me, we might need to move the Calamity of Krieg back in this timeline. The fluff on Iyanden says that the tyranid attack on Iyanden happened long enough ago that you have a younger generation of Eldar who are excited about Iyanden’s greater ties to the galaxy and an older generation who bemoan the loss of Iyanden’s purity. It’s implied that either Behemoth, Kraken, or Leviathan was the hive fleet responsible, as it was bad enough that the Imperium was having issues establishing a foothold in the front on the Ultima Segmentum. Iyanden was rescued by Yriel leading a bunch of post-calamity Kriegers to Iyanden through the webway. Behemoth and the vanguard fleets were in M37, Krieg went to shit in M40.

File: webway.jpg (129 KB, 1024x534)

129 KB JPG

>>51596480
I wonder how the Deamon Breakers actually travel the Webway without the paths just fucking up. They actually have a bunch of mortal soldiers working for them since they need every supporter they can get. I would think that thanks to the high amount of trained psykers, there might be a way to minimize the Warp presence of non-psykers to prevent the Webway from recognizing them.

>>51597851
>to have a battle in the Webway you could have the Imperium trying to chase a larger-than-normal force back into the Webway, only to end up getting stuck in Commoragh
There's been mention of Tzeentchian school/citadels of sourceros learning in parts of the webway overtaken by warp influence during the fall. Some independent decentdant group of the thousand sons fights their archfoe dark sorcerous there, some kind of breach is made, and as the Astartes finest psykers do battle and win in the Tower of Wyrd it rather quickly is reinforced/taken by dark eldar coming down the bleak path from Commorag. Soon the (let's say) the Daemon Breakers then get pinned down, so Ahriman's prodigal sons finally call for aid, and before long eldar forces with Astarte, kreiger, and tau support mount an uneasy advance into the crumbling fridge of the dark city.

>>51597541
>The first problem I see here is that "crusade into Commorag", even at the peak of the imperium's power, is a sound move only relative to "crusade into the Shah-Dome"
>>51597851
> intentionally crusading into Commoraugh would be a spectacularly bad idea
I will note that I wasn't thinking they would even get to Commorragh, suffering 75%+ casualties and being forced to retreat before even getting close to the city, and resorting to practicing scorched-earth techniques against the Webway near Commorragh as a desperation move to allow anyone to escape. Also spite.

File: another day in the guard.jpg (190 KB, 600x739)

190 KB JPG

>>51598308
I suppose that sort of venture fits the canon 40K, if only they had the footing, but this seems like an operation that could never succeed, and Oscar would never need to stamp 'NO' on it because whatever general proposes it would have to get it past his peers first, and they'd see all the same problems we do. It's a massively expensive war with a marginal chance of achieving its mission.

Also, I think the Eldar, as well as the Dark Eldar, would object to vortex bombs in the webway, period. They're weapons that function by making a giant hole into the warp that swallows the target, which assumably gets raped by demons. This works on non-chaos enemies, but blowing warp bubbles in the webway is a bad time for everyone but the Crones.
>>51598059
A rapidly escalating minor battle like this could be a good way to show war in the webway.

File: French in Russia.jpg (4.08 MB, 4745x3001)

4.08 MB JPG

>>51598308
Something similar to Napolean's invasion of Russia, Imperial forces pour in an overwhelming Crusader fleet to reach Commoraugh. The DE would likely lose every open engagement with the Imperial fleet. The hit-and-run attacks take a toll on the Imperials as the DE plans to sap the fighting spirit from the invaders. Raids and ambushes on the supply ships effectively force more and more of the ships to return home for the fear of being stranded. By the time the fleet reaches Commoraugh, the attack might be weak enough to kill some minor nobles but not enough to actually threaten the rest of the city. Vect uses the Imperials to funnel them to kill his political enemies then launches a counter-attack to drive out the fleet. Demoralized or exhausted, the Crusader fleet dissolves to a series of panicking captains when the fleet runs back to real space.

>>51598742
>a bad time for everyone but the Crones.
Actually, there's an idea. A Chaos Eldar assault on some Craftworld that offended them via the Webway, with Imperial reinforcements pouring in via the same route until the Webway around [craftworld] is a tangled mess of battle, from infantry to armor charges to point-blank broadsides between capital ships in the largest corridors, culminating in the CEldar detonating vortex bombs, killing themselves, most of the Imperial forces, and cutting [craftowrld] off from the Webway. This results in the Long Siege, as [craftworld] and the tattered pan-Imperial forces stranded on it come under real-space assault while it is cut off from reinforcements as it limps towards the closest friendly system.

I was looking over the list of Notable People so far, looking for characters to work on, and think the treads are pretty far ahead of it. so far it has
>Malcador(no bio, just his discovery of Oscar)
>Eldrad Ulthran
>Sreta Ulthran
>Jubblowski(Still greentext, doesn't need to be prose but could use some detail)
>Prince Yriel
>Void Dragon(His relationship w/ mechanicus, no bio, which should go with the other gods)
>Aun'O Da
>Kharn the Oathsworn
>The Swarmlord
I think we should add Prince Abaddon (and the tale of his arms), whomever is the current captain of the Custodes, and Bjorn as he stands as a 42nd millenium super-dreadnought and Oscar's friend and confidant (mainly because I want to draw that). We ought to make brief, dignified bits for Isha and Oscar.
We also need to hash out bios for Malys, Vect (mostly the same, possibly using reputation warp fuckery to keep up with Malys), Luther, Erebus, and prominent chaos eldar for each god.

>>51598308
>resorting to practicing scorched-earth techniques against the Webway near Commorragh as a desperation move to allow anyone to escape. Also spite.

Only problem: Imperium uses Webway too. They need it in tact just as much as the DEldar do.

>>51597885
Ahriman probably just gets his WIZARD on and the Daemon Breakers follow him as fast as possible

>>51598840
Problem is the Imperials would rather just fortify the shit out of the Webway gate and turn anything unauthorized that comes through into chunky salsa rather than knowingly chase the DEldar into the Webway.

>>51598921
Maybe leave the Cronedar out of this one. This time it's the DEldar's show and it gets to show why they are still a threat to the Imperium. Besides if the Cronedar really wanted to do some damage all they would have to do is detonate a bunch of vortex bombs in the Webway in general, no battle required.

>>51596258
There's a thought. The Imperium needs back-up in this confrontation, so they call in the biggest army they know that will do the least damage to the Webway: the Tau. Tau jump at the chance because it means payback at the DEldar for what they did to them during the Schism.

Even though the battle is an overall loss for the Imperium, the Tau feel quite proud of themselves because they revenge on the DEldar.

>>51599264
>Void Dragon
The whole issue with the Void Dragon is everything about him almost exclusively comes from his own mouth and he's the Mechanicus' basement prisoner. I think the only other person who knows where he is is Ceggers and either the Nightbringer or Silent King.

Malys had a bit fluffed out in a previous thread.

Was actually working on something for Erebus. Didn't want to jump in case someone had something better.

Malcador's log could almost go in the "stories" section.

>>51598921
I was picturing it as Crones activate the bombs in the webway, among the fighting, and instead of some shattering kaboom as the warp bites away the affected area, the walls of the webway tunnels dissipate, and those ethereal bridges of semi-sense drop into the sea of the warp. The portals on the craftworld persist, as do the ways on the far side of the "blast zone" but between the craftworld, an island in realspace, and the webway beyond it, there is a lake of true warp. Where once you could reach the craftworld by webway "bridge", by voidship, or by warp with gellar field, now the fiercest empyrean currents floods the path, nearly overflowing like a lidded Eye into madness. Crossing the Unseen Lake of Flames Impossible, spanning some not insignificant area, must be done in realspace. The webway routes leading in open into the eternal siege of Deamons and Wych Crones and their unreal leager, and their watch from the comfort of this hellish moat lets them interdict any ship approaching by warp, and overpower any gellar field.

>>51599383
>The whole issue with the Void Dragon is everything about him almost exclusively comes from his own mouth and he's the Mechanicus' basement prisoner. I think the only other person who knows where he is is Ceggers and either the Nightbringer or Silent King.
Somebody wrote a list of gods last thread, we can just use that.

>>51599294
>This time it's the DEldar's show and it gets to show why they are still a threat to the Imperium.
A possibility. Perhaps the Imperial expedition to Commorragh was launched with the intention of exacting revenge for such an overt assault on a craftworld?

>>51599383
lack of void dragon wasn't really my point. We really need to flesh out a greater variety of characters. This isn't to say more stories isn't good, but we can't have everything come back to Lofn, Jubblowski, and Primarchs. We could even just flesh out AU characters we already made, but have fallen by the wayside.

Also, we lack variety for villain characters that aren't the big bosses, and when we talk about tyranids we keep them characterless and monolithic, as we should. I wanna write some stuff for Crones, Necrons, and Vampires, but I'm afraid it will just be ignored to discuss the imperium, and if so, I really ought to use the time to study.

>>51596480
I believe last time this discussion was brought up, most Sororitas and most Inquisitors (as well as SMs) were trimmed off the list; it generally has to be the best of the best to be able to use it.

>>51600076
Go for it.

>>51600203
I would think the average veteran Space Marine would be about as good at mental discipline as the average Eldar; the SMs are already the best of the best.

>>51600076
>I wanna write some stuff for Crones, Necrons, and Vampires

Then do it.

>>51600076
Do it! Hell, I'm drafting a story that involves only a group of guardsman swapping stories.
I really only touch a few factions because my lore skill in the others is... Severely lacking. On the other hand, I'm an amateur sociologist and that's something I can bring to bear on the setting pretty easily. Find an interest of yours that you can bring in, and apply as you will.

>>51557043
>Using Melta Bombs to fuse an organic torso to the floor
I'm not sure if melta weapons bombs work like that.

>>51600340
In vanilla, certainly, but bear in mind the """mental training""" regimens in Nobledark are relatively relaxed on the Clockwork Orange-y front

>>51600489
because they don't. They're thermonuclear thermite grenades.
The only way to kill a Nosferatu ought to require somehow tearing the sliver of the Nightbringer from is living metal breast (as it carves through columns of baneblades), resisting the urge to jam it into your own to become death incarnate like its whispering you could be. This renders the subject unable to regenerate, access the power of the C'tan's warp reflection, or consume more souls, but the subject's soul is still in its sire's shard, so you're still fighting a silver blooded close combat monster that makes an Eversor look like it chose the Path of The Servant until the Nosferatu's body is incapacitated. You can go so far as to obliterate the body, probably with a lance strike, but all that really destroys is the individual persona that the body belonged to, as replicated in its necrodermic mind. Its soul remains with the vampire that created it, and the Nightbringer is still out there, nearly whole, embodying more tiny slivers of itself in worthy humans.

It's the classic romantic horror "we killed the damned monster, but there were others of the Count's ilk, in the shadows of every court..." especially because the line goes all the way up to Death himself (or so the Nightbringer would say)

>>51601140
A point. Certain legions/chapters would probably be better at moving through the Webway than others; Thousand Sons, probably, but who else?

Anyway, War in the Webway, v 2.0

What would later be known as the 'Webway War' to Imperial historians began with a massive Dark Eldar raid on the minor Craftworld of [I'll come up with a name later], led by Archon [something-or-other], one of Vect's most notable rivals. The Dark Eldar were stalled by the heroic defence put up by [craftworld], and were caught within the Webway by reinforcements pouring in from the rest of the Imperium. The Dark Eldar were unable to make a clean break from their pursuers, and were forced to stand and fight. A vicious battle began, which lasted for days before something... broke.
The walls of the webway were breached, and the raw warp flooded in, submerging all paths to [craftworld] and cutting it off from the Imperium. It was besieged for months by daemons, coming in through the broken gates, before a force of Grey Knights was able to arrive through conventional warp travel and seal off the gate.

What exactly broke the webway remains unclear, but the immediate assumption was that the Dark Eldar had done it in a final act of spite. The Imperium was outraged, but there was nothing that could be done.

Until a Dark Eldar ship from the raid was discovered at the edge of the destroyed zone, crew devoured by daemons but otherwise intact. And on board- a map. A Rat's Nest, a half-living artifact tracing the paths around and into Commorragh in encrypted format. Deciphering the blasphemous codes of the Dark Eldar was the work of years- but when it was done, a secret path into the heart of Commorragh, unknown to even most of the Dark Eldar, was revealed.

It was a trap, of course. Vect had planted the Rat's Nest there, ensured its codes were just easy enough to break, and the path it revealed led right to the doorstep of his rivals.

(cont.)

>>51601825
The assault began well enough, with the combined Eldar/Space Marine attack force breaking into the Dark City itself through stubborn opposition and laying about with Exterminatus-grade weaponry in every direction; then, as soon as they had done the damage Vect wanted, all the force the Dark City could muster fell upon the attack force. A third of the force died before they could flee back into the webway; the rest found themselves deep in enemy space, a maze of twisty passages all alike and filled with the masters of hit-and-run combat.

It was only the intervention of Tau and Legio Cybernetica forces- able to traverse the webway without damaging it because they had all the psychic power of a potato battery and a brick respectively- that allowed any of the raid force to get out alive, falling upon the Dark Eldar blockade from behind with incredible ferocity, trying to avenge centuries of atrocities in a single battle. As it was, only a tenth of the original attack force made it out alive.

Thoughts?

>>51601783
So would the ridiculous things Xin could do like become invisible using air flow or absorbing bolt shells, considered to be standard among Nosferatu vampires? I mean the Nosferatu should be the absolute beast even compared to other vampire types. I was actually write a part where Xin literally twirl around a Sicon squad to kill them before they could react to do anything.

>>51602412
I think we really need to standardize what C'tan vampires can do. Not standardize as in "they can only do these things" but standardize as in "these are the general things they can do, these are their general weaknesses, etc."

>>51601999
I feel like its already been said, and you've since added a justification, but this is still the Imperium charging into either an obvious trap, or just an unwinnable war, for the sole reason of being able to say there was an attack on commorag. Even the Eldar, who are good at the webway, don't go chasing after the dark kin and fight them on their own turf in optimal conditions. In your story the imperium nearly lost a craftworld after months of heavy siege, then massive demonic incursion. That story on its own is sufficient. This universe's version of the imperium is smart enough to know that just finding a map to commorragh after a massive battle is bait, and a successful assault on commorragh is equivalent in scale to one on Old Earth. Short of that, going there, even if not an actual trap, is suicidal, and as opposed to canon 'NONE PURER' marines they aren't going to go on expensive suicide runs for HONOR and VENGEANCE at the drop of a hat. There is no wider strategic purpose to invading commorragh, whomever gives the order will be shot for wasting the Emperor's ships.

>>51601999
Like the "well at least it wasn't a total loss" due to the intervention of the Tau and Cybernetica.

Still not sold on why the assault would go after Commorragh in the first place.

>A Rat's Nest, a half-living artifact tracing the paths around and into Commorragh in encrypted format. Deciphering the blasphemous codes of the Dark Eldar was the work of years- but when it was done, a secret path into the heart of Commorragh, unknown to even most of the Dark Eldar, was revealed.

Like this doesn't scream "it's a trap"

The thing with Dark Eldar is that due to hanging around the Craftworlders, everyone in the Imperium would know not to follow an DEldar into a dark alleyway. The best way to fight a DEldar is to make them fight on your terms.

Speaking of which, is there any known aggressive interactions between DEldar and Craftworlders or Exodites in canon? I seem to remember exactly one encounter in the fluff, where the DEldar raided an Exodite world and poisoned a World Spirit, but I wonder how the Craftworlders normally deal with DEldar kin who've decided they have a taste for the pain of their own kind.

File: 40k bait.jpg (78 KB, 600x793)

78 KB JPG

>>51602454
A thought occurs. If they had a back door into Commorraugh, the Nobledark Imperium would just fire a bunch of cyclonic torpedos into it and call it a day. Especially if it's post Vect-Malys Yes it leaves a massive hole in the Webway that has to be sealed over by the Craftworlders, but it excises a massive threat to the Imperium and makes the Webway safe.

Only issue would be if it would wreck the Webway altogether or if the Eldar think it's a bit too genocidal, but in that case you could just leave a lesser "party favor" instead.

>>51602454
>>51602617
If people don't like the idea of an assault on Commorragh I suppose I'll lay off the topic.
>>51602669
I was figuring that a.) cyclonic torpedoes cannot navigate the webway, you need to use an actual ship to get them to the target and b.) Commorragh is so huge that a standard load of Exterminatus weaponry won't destroy more than a fraction of it. Besides, I do mention the assault force 'laying about with Exterminatus-grade weaponry in every direction'.

File: IMG_0256.jpg (124 KB, 827x965)

124 KB JPG

>>51602445
I was think something like:

Strigoi = Vampires that has to use psyker powers to appear human. Not as strong as Nosferatu, they are still more physically tough than Lahmian. They can blend into Imperial society or live in the fringes.
Nosferatu = Unable to use psyker powers, they compensate this by being the most physically strong. The failure to integrate to Imperial society makes many of these vampires become hunters living as outcasts. The only known vampire type to be able to fly by growing wings.
Lahmian = The physically weakest of the vampire, even a good Inquisitor with retinue could kill a Lahmian. Strongest with psyker powers, they are the only known vampires who can forcefully mind control most unwilling subjects. Living in the upper echelons of worlds, they are often protected and controlling by noble influence.

All vampires have a delicate balance of cell destruction and regeneration at all times. The C'tan shard continually devour the cells of the host's body but is offset by the greater healing factor. Daylight exposure to the vampire's body causes the shard to be hyperactive and gain slightly faster decay rate. Around for 6 hours can a vampire wonder in daylight before dropping dead from the bodily functions halting from decay. Radiation based weapons accelerate the decay rate exponentially when used close enough to the vampire. UV rays directly burning the heart can also kill the vampire when blood and Silver stop flowing throughput the body. The UV rays trick the shard into destroying the heart first before the outer layers of the body. Warpcraft that can artificially conjure solar radiation inside the body can instantly kill the vampire, some examples include the "Ripple" technique that can morph Warp energy into solar energy via physical contact. One of the few who conquered this weakness was Xin the Insurgent, she had full control of her C'tan shard and Silver becoming the Ultimate Organism. She had no known weakness.

>>51603900
What happens if cell regeneration overwhelms cell destruction?

One thing mentioned over the threads is giving Chaos a buff, since they don't have entire legions of chaos marines to pull from. DEldar and Cronedar only count for so much (despite pretty big), and the control over orks is slipping. With the imperium having access to Tau forces, I was thinking of giving Chaos battle suits. Hear me out.
When thee Tau joined the Imperium, Reform Mechanicus manages to negotiate access to battlesuit schematics in exchange for help with research (which eventually lead to the very limited production Unifier Class battlesuit, which uses almost every tech-base available to the imperium wrapped in a composite-wraithbone shell). However, the Tau really couldn't tell the difference then between actual AdMech and hereteks in those early days, allowing Chaos to steal the same plans.
With no limits on them, like preventing dangerous projects, enforcing industrial safety standards, or not incorporating xenostech, the base idea was quickly combined with their available knowledge and put into production.
Chaos-tech, corrupted wraithbone and eldar technology, and stolen imperial knowledge combines very nastily on a Tau baseline, making this weapon of chaos a mighty foe on the battlefields of the 41st millennium.

>>51604122
Cancer, literally just cancer. I'm not sure how that would happen, but if that happens the organs or bones grow out of control to ruin the careful internal balance.

>>51604174
A specific type of weapon is cool, but I don't think is really a 'buff' on a faction scale. Perhaps making the Dark Mechanicus as a whole more prominent? Vanilla 40k never really did much with them, so it might be cool to see them expanded into a full faction of their own.

>>51604225
I think so. The idea behind the chaos battlesuit is to give them an expanded marine level fighting force, since we nerfed them in that area.
And dark Mechanicus will be present: they're often the only thing that let's the scattered and (generally speaking) nerfed chaos cults in imperial space get a fighting chance. This also gives me more internal drama for the Mechanicus, who will also have lots of Jewish jokes in them (three main factions: Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform. Orthodox uncover their augmentations, reform cover theirs, and conservative keep their covers removable)

>>51525384
There was a time, not so long ago to have passed into history, when the Archduke of the star Lyra and prince of the Hiveworld and Survivor of Old Night Lyra IV was a prominent member of the high aristocracy of Segmentum Pacificus. He was Educated by the Navy tutors provided by his father, one Captain Simio "Mad" Lucidicius, veteran of the War of The Beast. Since youth showed himself a deft hand at swordplay and shooting, and a great study of history. As an officer he was thought charming by his peers, and was well liked by his crew. He served with distinction in the great hunt, a good commander, if over fond of explorative detours and personally engaging the enemy. He returned to Lyra their most prominent captain since the war, and used this distinction to ensconce himself in high society. His rise in the local naval structure followed, and again he took to exploratory jaunts whenever he could leave his stately functions, often accompanied by his own circle of irregulars. As it is not uncommon for powerful aristocrats to go about playing at being Rogue Traders this was never cause for alarm, though he received the merited inquisitorial scrutiny. His persistent youth across the decades as well went unremarked, such is the aristocracy's love of juveants. Upon every return from an Explorator Charter was the same golden haired captain, ever more charming, daring, ravishing, and his officers as well, much the same band of colorful gentlemanly imperial heroes from his travels. He had tales of wonders, and of the strangest terrors, and after some centuries Lyra's good captain, already a prince unto himself in the fortunes he held, retired from his adventures, and set about reacquainting himself with the Lyran royal court. In the centuries that followed Lyra seemed both to sleep and to gain a horrible mania.

>>51604634
>>51603900
suppose I should answer before I keep writing

>>51603799
Actually, the idea of a battle within the Webway is really cool, it's just that the Imperium is going to be skittish little bunny rabbits when it comes to anything involving going on the offensive against the Dark Eldar. Dark Eldar on a planetary raid are easy, you have the drop on them and all they can do is die or flee. If Dark Eldar dictate the terms of battle you're in trouble.

It sounds like the best way to get an Imperial force into Commorragh is to never let them realize they've entered the Webway in the first place. The Commorragh Raid in canon happened because Vect knocked out the crew of a Salamander Strike Cruiser, dragged it into Commorragh, and let the crew's distress beacon do the job for him. So somehow an Imperial force gets tricked into entering the Webway without their knowledge. No one there knows how to get out of the Webway, so they just follow what seems like a natural path in hopes of finding an exit. And then ohfuckwereincommorragh.jpg. Imperials try to find a way out while the higher-ups desperately try to get them out, erupts into all-out war.

Alternatively, make it something that the Imperium cannot let fall into the hands of the DEldar. Something that the Imperium absolutely has to have (or at least blow up so the DEldar don't have it), so they gamble and duck into the Webway real quick to grab it back from the DEldar with Eldar guides. They thought it was going to be a random section of the Webway, but they got dumped on the doorstep of Commorragh because Vect. The battle draws in increasing amounts of forces and casualties on both sides, until the higher ups say "fuck it, send in the Tau" and send in a fresh surge of Tau and Cybernetica to briefly overwhelm the defenders long enough for the Imperium to retreat.

And to make matters worse, the DEldar managed to keep whatever Vect stole as a pretext for war.

>>51603900
This Xin character could be a replacement for Legienstrasse then, since the Assassins are on a short leash and the Emperor would probably be like, "Are you guys seriously trying to make an assassin out of Tyranid DNA???" The story could pretty much be kept identical, since the force sent to kill Legienstrasse seems to be about the right power level for a C'tan shard (an Inquisitor, his retinue, an Imperial Fists contingent led by Lysander, several IG regiments, and a handful of assassins with TWO grandmasters).

>>51604565
The Mechanicus in canon have Thallaxes and Ursaraxes now, which are said to be either the AdMech's equivalent of Space Marines or in between a dreadnought and a Space Marine. The Dark Mechanicus, with their looser moral standards, might field a ton of those to make up for the lack of Space Marine legions.

>>51604565
I wouldn't necessarily say the Chaos cults are nerfed as many people have been saying. Anti-chaos stuff is widespread, but at the same time Chaos is a little more clever about how it presents itself. It's like how the invention of penicillin and vaccines didn't mean that pathogenic bacteria went extinct, it just meant that now we had options to deal with them beyond "pray".

Say there is some planet that worships a bull deity of fertility. They've been worshipping the same god for thousands of years and there's been no sign of Chaos corruption. All of a sudden you get a few people subverting the entire religion into Khorne worship, even though the religion was perfectly harmless before. Because there is no state religion in the Imperium, Inquisitors, Arbites, and Sororitas would have to be twice as diligent when it comes to investigating local faiths to make sure they aren't worshipping the Ruinous Powers. And they don't always catch everything.

>>51603900
I keep noticing this statement of C'tan (mostly the Deciever) having souls cropping up and I think it might be necessary to clarify something.

C’tan don’t naturally have souls, at least not in the manner that we know of. The Void Dragon has a reflection in the Warp because he’s worshipped by the Adeptus Mechanicus as the Omnissiah and things snowballed from there. The Nightbringer gained a warp reflection once he realized the fear he was instilling in other beings was making him stronger, and he intentionally exploited it in order to make himself even more powerful.

The Nightbringer and Void Dragon are both outliers among the C’tan. None of the other C’tan (that is the Deciever, the Outsider, and all the minor C’tan that are broken up into shards across the galaxy) ever developed souls or anything similar. The C’tan were worshipped by the Necrons, but Necron worship is like Tau worship in terms of power received.

They C'tan were masters of the Materium, but when it comes to weirdness they run on things like gravity manipulation and quantum entanglement as opposed to telekinesis and telepathy.

>>51601999
>>51602454
>>51602617
>>51604798
Is this power level right for the DEldar though? In canon, even though they're a major faction, they are pretty much a non-factor on a galactic scale. At full strength, the Imperium would wipe Commoragh, it's just that the Imperium is stretched too thin to concentrate its forces and the DE are never an existential threat, only a major annoyance. Given that we have a pretty calm period between the end of the WotB and the AoA, it seems we need a reason for a full strength Imperium not to stomp the shit out of the DE.

>>51603900
So what is the difference between Strigoi, Lahmia, and Nosferatu in terms of origin? I know one is supposed to come from the Deciever, and another from Nightlight, but what are the third batch? Really weak Deciver shards? Nightbringer shards that learned to play dress-up as civilized people? Minor C'tan like the pyromaniac?

The one thing I would change about the weaknesses is come up with a different name for the Ripple so it's not as obvious of a Jojo reference. Like "Heliomancy" or something.

Warpcraft in general might be especially lethal against Deciever shards, since the C'tan were said to be super vulnerable to warp energy. It might also provide a good way to differentiate the vampires in terms of weaknesses. You used warp energy on a vampire? Oops, it turned out to be a Nightbringer shard rather than a Deciever shard, and all you've done is make him mad.

>>51604982
It wouldn't be so much a full-out assault, as Vect got the Imperium caught in a fight on the DEldar's terms and it sucked them down like quicksand. The Imperium was able to pull their forces out, but not without massive losses on their part. Trying to use that opportunity to go after Commorragh itself would be like the U.S. in WWII trying to march on mainland Japan.

Also, it would have to be post AoA if the Tau are involved, so the Imperium might be more worried about losing forces that could be better used against the Necrons and tyranids.

If you're talking about why the Imperium doesn't stomp the shit out of Commorragh between the WotB and the AoA, it could be that the DEldar are taking precautions now to better hide Commorragh in the Webway since the Craftworlders are now valid targets. A line has been drawn between Dark Eldar and (most) Craftworlds and you don't get into Commoragh unless you're a Dark Eldar or a Harlequin (who seem to be able to go anywhere they want in the Webway most of the time anyhow).

File: IMG_0257.jpg (63 KB, 575x800)

63 KB JPG

>>51604980
For C'tan vampires at least, the human body already should contain a pusdo-soul that the shard would control. All the shard would do is change the body to respond positively to eating other sentient lifeforms. Thoughts on furthering some common goal amongst vampires should also be telling the host's conciseness to obey it. Without any type of soul, the vampire would be the equivalent of a servitor and can't infiltrate Imperial society. As for Warpcraft, the vampires shouldn't just summon deamons or throw lighting bolts like a typical cultist. The different use would be to allow the vampire's body to do something physically that they shouldn't be able to, like grow razor skin or use echo location not teleport nor place hexes.

>>51604667
I'm writing it like this
Strigoi = produced by a shard from the Deceiver, they appear human, unnaturally pleasing, and increasingly idealized and superhuman as they age, and metallic as they are converted to femtomachines. As they embody the Deceiver in action and mind and assume control of its warp power they become powerful psykers, geared towards illusion, mind control, telepathy, and biomancy, the last more horrible for their necrodermis bodies. They start out as strong as an armored astarte and about as squishy as an unarmored one, but human size with regeneration, but their excellence is that they can make almost anyone believe anything. A really old one, like the one I'm writing up, could shake a hivecity given a place to stand, could survive an orbital strike that punches it through the planet's crust, and bring worlds to excesses that would blanch Slaanesh with a polite request. The Deciever likes to be in high society, telling tall tales and being rewarded with the finest of all things, so that's what his slivers have been doing throughout the galaxy since the Necrons obliterated it.
Nosferatu - produced by the Nightbringer, start out looking human, though gaunt and recently deceased, and become monstrous as they age, ferocious predatory corpses with steely grey flesh. They are also psykers, but essentially all biomancy, and whatever horrific antimatter lightning the Nightbringer's reflection sees fit to extend through them. As they kill, and spread their legend of death, they become more like the Nightbringer, itself actively traveling the galaxy and slaying all before it. In this way they access a greater part of their sire's killing providenceThey start out harder to crack than terminator armor and as regenerative as the thing, able to chew tanks. Old ones can solo titan legions, throw hive cities, turn into continent enveloping mists that condense into legions of thralls, etc. Not rightly sure how to kill something that does that.

File: IMG_0258.jpg (59 KB, 1276x720)

59 KB JPG

>>51604917
Xin became the Ultimate Organism by using a self-destructive ancient xenos artifact. That would mean her transformation to conquer her weakness is gained artificially by technology that no longer exist. Not to mention the fact, Xin being able to use all three unique traits from all three different vampire types is gone too. There is no way for the Imperium to replicate that artifact or to make assassins based on Xin. In my story GeGe's Odd Adventure Part 2: Battle Stance, much of Xin's talk of being the Ultimate Organism is just for intimidation and pride, she isn't actually that powerful compared to some ancient vampires.

>>51604980
Thank you, wise one. I'm pretty sure the Deceiver's persistent reputation and consistent deception of everyone he encountered on a massive level was discussed, and granted to be sufficient to produce a warp reflection, that is, a double of it in the immaterium projected by the collective unconscious of the galaxy. In fact, every time we've fluffed a C'tan for this AU its had a reflection of this sort, if I'm not mistaken.
>>51605374
Most Strigoi slivers, the Deceiver's, were produced when the Necrons obliterated it in revenge for the loss of their souls (this was in prior threads), and were scattered throughout the galaxy. In the glory of the Necron empire the Deceiver had come to develop from its base principles a love of deceptive finery and circuitous power, and that impulse still guides the slivers to the hands of hosts. The Nightbringer was mostly whole, and was awoken by the mistake of an Ultramarines company. As opposed to the mostly independent and consumptive Strigoi, the Deceiver tasting all he can, the Nightbringer sets Nosferatu out as divergent branches from his tree of death, their mind but hues of his mind. Both sorts of vampire retain the basic shape of their personality, but their drivers are wholly the C'tan.

>>51605070
>What's the difference between the vampires?
See >>51605374 and >>51605628
>Heliomancy
That's a nice name, should be changing the Ripple from my stories.

I was going to say Nosferatu should be vulnerable to psyker attacks while Lahmians just always walk around with a psyker nullifying field.

>>51605628
the sliver itself is a poorly understood device, in most cases found embedded within the vampire's body. Particularities of its structure escape Imperial detection, but it is right to call it a tiny C'tan shard. Most apparent in Nosferatu, the consumption of a soul draws it into the sliver, where its energy is bound and its makeup sheared of desired content. All that the Nightbringer wants of the soul is taken, death-horrors woven into its warp presence directly, what remains is fuel to the sliver. The sliver grows slowly, and as well as serving as psychic antenna to the C'tan (or its reflection), it converts bodily structures to femtomechanical analogues. Though it takes some centuries to complete this process, it greatly strengthens the vampire, and allows it to produce a variety of Necron equivalent technological effects, in addition to biomancy and standard combat. Regenerative abilities manifest even before this occurs, apparently the splinter itself repairing damaged tissue by matter manipulation. Some aspect of the splinter permits an unknown reaction to extract massive energy from the warp through the dismantling of souls. In absence of this, the power requirements of a vampire's body are utterly unsustainable. They could theoretically do it by swimming in the corona of a star, but that goes well beyond their bodies limits.

>>51605796
I think the difference in our vision for the vampires is that I'm writing them as evil posthuman "nanomachines, son" supermen made to be Necrons 2.0, this time with black magic as well as quantum physics, by the two C'tan that are best described as Terminator and Loving it and Mr. More Golden than you. I imagine they max out somewhere around abyssal exalted, and am trying to make a monster for a galactic scale. You seem to be going for something you fight by fighting it, however tough, I'm going for something you fight by calling for lance strikes to cover your retreat, or you never fight, because it runs three sectors and you can't do a damn thing about it.

File: betslizerddiorama.jpg (1.49 MB, 1000x1252)

1.49 MB JPG

>>51606087
Not him but I'm all for making them hard suckers, just not too hard. If they get too killy then it raises the question of why they haven't taken over the universe by now.

Also we don't want this shit to turn into pic related.

What if there was a second Golden Man?

One that wasn't nearly so benevolent.

>>51606867
It's been mentioned. I think the consensus was that every claimant has been disproven. Peaceable ones were probed by psykers, violent ones ended up dissected by Oscar. He doesn't mess around when it comes to the inventions of the old human empire.

>>51606867
Oscar and him duke it out. Oscar wins because he isn't a retard and went in with the Custards as backup.

>>51604798
Well I'm not abandoning the idea of major battle in the webway, just an assault on Commorragh.
>>51604982
My assumption is that Commorragh and the Webway around it is some of the most nightmarish defensive terrain imaginable, like a Viet Cong wet dream made reality in razor wire.

Anyway, War in the Webway v 3.0
The attack on [craftworld] was, in typical Dark Eldar fashion, sudden and overwhelming, ripping out of the webway gate with incredible brutality and speed. However, the Dark Eldar, lead by Archon [name] and his entire Kabal, had grown arrogant from centuries fighting foes slower than than they were, and were unprepared for the speed with which the Aspect Warriors leapt to the defense of their home. Fatally, they allowed themselves to be bogged down by the ferocious defence of [craftworld] long enough for reinforcements to arrive, cutting off their path back to Commorragh.

In response, the Dark Eldar fled deeper into the alleyways and back passages of the Webway, hoping to lose their pursuers. This began a series of cat-and-mouse chases through the corridors of the webway, as Eldar and Dark Eldar hunted each other down in tangled spaces unfamiliar to both of them. This lasted for days, until the Dark Eldar regrouped and tried to break out of the trap in a fast-moving spearhead.

And ran right into incoming Tau and Legio Cybernetica reinforcements. Possessing the psychic acumen of a potato battery and a half-brick in a sock, respectively, the Tau and Cybernetica could both move through the Webway without damaging it- and both specialized in laying down heavy firepower at range. In the cramped passages of the Webway that offered no room to maneuver or dodge, it was very nearly the worst tactical matchup possible for the speed-is-armor Dark Eldar.

(cont.)

>>51607030
>cont.
Unfortunately, in that last stage of the battle- something broke. The general, reflexive presumption is that Archon [name] triggered some warhead on a dead-man switch, but with so few surviving eyewitnesses nearly anything could be true.

The end result was that the webway broke and daemons spilled in. The Imperial force, ravaged and reeling, fled back to [craftworld] to make their stand as the Webway dissolved around them. For months, the mixed force slaughtered demons at the chokepoints of the Webway gates. The weapons of the dead were taken up by civilian volunteers, bonesingers turned the plazas into killzones and deathtraps, broken war-bots repaired with wraithbone substitutions once the supply of spare parts ran dry.

Incredibly, they held out until relieved, a company of Grey Knights arriving via conventional warp travel. Charging into the shattered webway, they somehow contrived to temporarily stem the flow of daemons, and followed up by severing the craftworlds' connection with the Webway in conjunction with Eldar warlocks. [craftworld] lost its connection to the Webway, and had suffered immensely... but the siege was over, and it had survived.

There were several long-term effects as a result of this battle. First, the general Imperial policy of trying to avoid combat within the webway was reinforced. Second, whatever fellow-feeling the craftworld Eldar had for the Dark Eldar was badly reduced by such a brutal attack and its consequences.

(cont. again, surprisingly)

>>51607157
Finally, the estimation of the Tau's value as a fighting force was raised. The Tau's inclusion within the Imperium was still young at this point, and their usefulness in combat was often questioned. Their long refusal to join the Imperium made many question their ability to fit into the larger Imperial Army, and their distaste for Glorious Melee Combat made many question their courage and valor. The ferocity of their attack and the staunchness of their defence in this battle silenced such doubts; and Imperial planners rejoiced at having another force able to move through the Webway.

Thoughts?

>>51606087
The problem with having the vampires be too OP is how does the Imperium cope.

Something that turns itself into an indestructible, carnivorous continent sized fog bank with godlike magic powers and inhuman intellect is the equivalent of "Nope, rocks fall everyone dies TPK no rolls".

>>51607171
Sounds very good. Is this going to be the replacement even for the "cultural exchange" in Tau history?

File: IMG_0259.jpg (128 KB, 1300x900)

128 KB JPG

>>51606087
At least the vampires written in my stories could be killed by a good Dark Heresy party. Even Xin with her perfect body shouldn't be able to survive two Lance strike to the face. The ones you're describing can throw continents and shrug off capital ship weapons, there is no way for the Imperium to deal with this kind of OP vampires. There can be terminator-like vampires without having them take over a planet with a hand wave. In my stories, all the Inquisition does to kill a vampire is find a weakness then dial it up to 11 and if that doesn't work just call in an orbital bombardment to flatten a city block. The mortals can still hunt these vampires, it's just that only the Inquisition can call on assists or have the weaponry to kill vampires. I mean how the fuck would a normal IG regiment ever be equipped with UV weapons or an Eldar find a fucking UV lasbolt stake.

>>51606087
Easy there cowboy, in canon a Ctan shard maxes out at around a Warlord Titan in power (since I think there's fluff of one taking on a Tyranid biotitan), and this is in a necrodermis body. Vampires have both smaller shards and a squishy biological body, there's no way they're going to be near a full shard in power. Again, I think Legienstrasse provides a decent comparison for a high end vampire.

bump

>>51610648
>>51609940
>>51608613
I grant I got carried away last night. I figure what I was describing would be the Cain level vamps, a single step down from their respective C'tan, not the average vampire or even the median power level. I can agree that planet domineering forces maybe too OP, but I think prominent vampires should be a menace on a large scale, and they're operating in a galaxy spanning empire with millennia of history.

>>51609595
Dark Eldar took advantage of the Tau either when they were fighting in the schism, the A.I. rebellion, or tyranids. They know what the pirates on jetbikes are in this timeline. Their idea of a cultural exchange would be a plasma gun to the face.

File: Spoiler Image (534 KB, 1280x1049)

534 KB JPG

>>51612357
My version of vampires is toned down to let a vampire act as the final boss in a game of Dark Heresy.

In comparison, when I was describing Lisbet who was only a vampire for less than a year, was considered nearly a mortal. Being just a weak Lahmian, she was able to chew through Scions like it was nothing and almost kill Adalheid who was a walking bunker. The more experienced Lahmian like Holtstein was able to brush away Scions from harming him then kill half of an Inquisitor's retinue. The fact that he could almost kill a veteran vampire hunter like Inquisitor GeGe several times in a fight, all while only using one psyker power, tells how powerful he actually was. Keep in mind these are Lahmian vampires, the physically weakest of the vampire types. They are the weaker of the vampires encountered by the Inquisition.

Xin was only 200 years after conversion when she became the Ultimate Organism. Relatively young, she was able to shatter a defensive line of Battle Sisters without ever being in danger in that fight. Unlike ancient powerful vampires, however, Xin conquered the solar radiation weakness but still wasn't as strong as them. Being able to use all three different types of vampiric strengths, she kicked Adalheid's ass then proceed to solo Minsk and win using only a single ability. Scions couldn't even slow her down as she made her way to solo GeGe. Going so far as to take a Lance strike to the face, Xin after being buried then fried was still alive. She basically cheated to becoming more powerful without the skill, training, or experience of a 500-year-old vampire. Considered powerful relative to other vampires, she isn't as strong as ancient vampires.

>>51609595
Nah. The Tau fought Dark Eldar several times before finally giving in and becoming part of the Imperium.

So, should I go ahead and throw it on the wiki somewhere?

>>51613484
Yes please. Was very gud.

>>51613856
Stuck it in 'other writefaggotry' for now.

>>51613425
that then works with my stories. Cosimo was born a generation after the War of The Beast and remained in power on Lyra for as long as he could before his age became conspicuous at around 600, having intrigued against Lord Inquisitors and Alpha level psykers intent on uncovering the Duke's terrible secret the whole time. When he was finally found out it took a minor war waged by the inquisition to unseat his court of thralls, and even then the lamia managed to flee.
Carsar is going to be a veteran of the Imperial Civil War, I think the prime Nightbringer shard had been released at that point, and he'd have been on a killing spree through the Ultima Segmentum ever since he met the figure of death on a burning battlefield. He had the restraint to pass among mortals in his earlier centuries, at least sufficient to stow away on ships to continue his hunt, but as his power waxed over a millennia he took to spaceflight by his own power, growing great black wings in the shape of a crescent.

>>51614364
By Xin I mean from this story >>51557043 and Lisbet from http://pastebin.com/JXGgPE7H

So what is Cthonia like in 999M41?

Unlike Vannilla there was talk of it being some sort of Ringworld, a mega-structure relic of the time when men were as the gods are. Are we still going with that?

>>51603799
Point b seems reasonable enough - I think it's said somewhere ages ago that DEldar actually vastly outnumber craftworlders, so we can infer a lot from that. >>51604982 take note when discussing power levels.

>>51617258
There have been periodic attempts to restore it as the imperium's capital, but it's just too big. It has some rebuilt spots, but the system is for the most part a ruin.

File: dreadfox-ringworld.jpg (219 KB, 1280x720)

219 KB JPG

>>51618853
A ringworld, according to the first thing that appears on Google, would have 3,000,000 times the surface area of Earth.

I'm assuming that this is assuming if it was built around a star the size of Sol.

Not that it matters from a practical point of view if if was a smaller structure around a smaller star because in human terms the answer is identical. It is FUCKING X-BAWKZ HUEJ!

Tell me if I'm fucking up something huge here.

There is a secondary hoop that also exists. It is closer in to the sun than the main hoop. It has segments missing and it spins in the opposite direction to the main hoop. The missing sections allow light through. The solid sections don't. This provided, back in the good old days, the illusion of day and night. It was a lot of trouble to go to for this simple illusion, it is considered that the god-like Iron Minds might have considered this a form of art. Art on an inhuman scale, but they were inhuman.

The inner hoop by some horrific cataclysm has lost it's alignment relative to the main hoop. It now spins on a slightly different angle. There are now only two sections of the Halo that have a day/night cycle.

The outer edge of the main hoop has a thin layer of what is assumed to be neutronium. It is impervious to all attempted damage. What process is keeping it stable is unknown. The Neutronium provides enough mass to generate a gravitational field of exactly 1G. The gravity causes the Earth-like atmosphere to cling to the mega-structure.

There is an atmosphere and gravity on the outer edge of the main hoop but it is cold, dark, lifeless and featureless.

It seems great pains had been made to make the inner edge as Earth-like as possible, although nothing could hide the distinctly odd horizon. There are landscapes, hydrocycles, weather patterns and most other processes that would be found on a more traditionally built world. There is obviously no tectonic activity.

File: ring_by_guitfiddle.jpg (431 KB, 967x535)

431 KB JPG

>>51619224
There is some evidence of extensive vegetation in the past and also great cities that would put the Hives of Old Earth to shame a hundred times over.

The cities are no only ruins that speak of nothing but lost grandeur. By the time the early Imperium laid claim Cthonia had no signs of life beyond simple single celled organisms presumably left by generations of salvage teams not dissimilar to the one lead by Malcador. In part this is almost certainly due to the lack of an o-zone layer. Presumably when it was inhabited the Cthonia structure had one.

So far nothing of value has been looted by official Imperial teams. Most if not all of the sophisticated tools of the Golden Age required maintenance by inhumanly delicate hands. Millennia of neglect has reduced all those great wonders to so much scrap.

How the inner and outer rings remain in position relative to their sun is unknown. How so much matter was accumulated to construct the mega-structure is unknown. There have been no clues to the methods of construction.

Leading hypothesis by the adepts of Mars is that it was made for humanity but not by humanity. Presumably it was made by their creations. Whether the great Iron Minds made it at their behest is unknown as is the exact relationship between human and super-human construct. Was it demanded as kings to their servants? Commissioned as one equal to another? Gifted as a parent to a child? Or was it made as a habitat for a favored pet? It is unknown.

Investigation to the malfunctioning inner hoop is in the planning stage and has been for a very long time.

The Imperium's long term goal is to convert the mega-structure into a super agri-world. If left to work uninterrupted task completion estimated some time in the mid point of M52 at the earliest.

File: golden abode.jpg (211 KB, 640x900)

211 KB JPG

>>51619489
All sounds mostly good.
The Cthonian Raid story describes natural satellites also orbiting the star, and the ring central to the battle is described as covered with superstructural domes and docking pillars/piers that dwarfed the engaged battleships, as well as a "crest" structure notable in its design. The course of that battle implies there to be worthwhile technology remaining, and that the Custodes guarding it have some understanding of the facility's function. It's also been described as notably scared by the violence it saw in the Age of Strife.

File: 7th Mordian D Company.jpg (627 KB, 2139x1394)

627 KB JPG

A question: how would the standard or semi-standard Guard loadout differ from vanilla 40k? I know flak jackets and lasguns have already been expounded on, but how would e.g. the Mechanicus not getting wrecked in the HH or close integration with Eldar forces affect equipment and doctrine? My first thoughts are that Volkite weaponry remains in common use against enemies like the Orks and Tyranids and greater prevalence of grav and grav-assist vehicles in an attempt to create human armored forces with the same agility as Eldar ones, but I'm drawing a blank past that.

>>51622897
I think Imperial tech in canon that was present pre-heresy but lost over time like jet bikes and jump packs that allow for actual flight would still be around in this AU. Not enough to swing the tech level drastically, but some extra goodies here and there.

File: just pretend he is a kine(...).jpg (461 KB, 1137x724)

461 KB JPG

On a tangential note to the War in the Webway, I had an idea about Drach’nyen in this timeline. Specifically how Drach’nyen ended up in the form of a sword.
As in canon, during the WotB, Drach’nyen was free to wreak havoc across the galaxy. Huge numbers of people died, and Drach’nyen was only stopped when someone took him out of the equation. However, in this case, Drach’nyen was not stopped by the Emperor sealing him away during the War in the Webway. Instead, Drach’nyen’s defeat came from a most unlikely source.

The fucking Kinebrach.

The Kinebrach don't just make Chaos-corrupted swords despite being a Chaos-fearing race for no reason. As a race of weapon forgers and metalsmiths, making swords is how the Kinebrach have naturally learned to bind and deal with daemons. They seal the daemons inside swords to tie the daemon to a single place, and then they make sure the weapons never, ever get used. The Anathame the Interex had was an educational gift from the Kinebrach, to help teach them that these kinds of things are dangerous and if you see a sword like this to immediately box it up so it can't whisper to people.

Being a daemon of fundamentally human origin, there was little that even the most powerful human inhabitants of the Imperium could do against Drach’nyen. The Kinebrach, however, suffered from no such limitations. The greatest of the Kinebrach warsmiths, Ra-Ha-Be, challenged the daemon to single combat in his forge on Mount Afonso, a forge built into the side of a volcano that the Kinebrach had considered their finest workshop. The daemon was truly a ferocious opponent, but eventually, Ra-Ha-Be beat Drach’nyen and forged him into the shape of a sword, at the cost of his own life.

File: drachnyen.jpg (191 KB, 314x1343)

191 KB JPG

>>51623543 (cont.)
Unfortunately the sword gets lost in the chaos of the WotB, and ends up in the warp. It is said that the one destined to lead the forces of Chaos against the Imperium will be chosen by Drach’nyen to be its wielder, like an evil sword in the stone. Drach’nyen has a mind of its own. If he likes the cut of your jib, he turns you into a close combat murder machine. If he thinks someone else is a better wielder...well then he turns on you and cuts your jib. Many daemons and Chaos worshippers have learned this the hard way. As of M41 Lady Malys has it (being the Abbadon of the setting), and probably had it for at least the last few Black Crusades.

>>51619224
>>51619489
>>51621309

Reading the Raid of Cthonia fluff and some of the previous threads, it sounds like the ring was a ring built around one of the planets rather than an actual ringworld. The Raid took place on two planets on the Cthonia system, rather than on the ringworld itself where you'd think the action would be.

On the other hand a DaoT ringworld sounds really, really cool.

Speaking of which, given that a ringworld would have three million times the surface area of Earth, what are the chances that the Imperium was able to salvage everything there? It would assumedly be top priority but it would still take a long time. I mean, is there enough left unexamined that there could still be Men of Gold or Men of Iron there?

>>51606993
IIRC, there was exactly one other Man of Gold ever found by the Imperium. They were dead as a doornail and the techniques used on Oscar couldn't revive them. I don't remember if the MoG went to Ganymede or Oscar stepped in and performed a funeral.

>>51607171
That reminds me of an idea I had for the Tau. As the Tau Empire began to make contact with the greater galaxy, they began to realize that many of their opponents were devastatingly effective in close-quarters combat, such as Orks, tyranids, Space Marines, etc. Even though the Tau don't like to fight in melee combat, they realized their enemies weren't going to do them a favor and do the same. They would love to use the Kroot as front-line melee combatants, but there are only so many Kroot to go around, and there are many more Tau regiments than there are Kroot auxillaries. (The Tau seem to have a larger population and core territory than in canon, as it seems like they expanded earlier and had more prominent spheres of expansion before they got kicked in the gonads. Plus few to no Gue’vesa.)

As a result, at the behest of Commander Farsight (back before the schism), the Empire decided to solve this issue by building bigger, heavier-duty battlesuits designed specifically for melee combat. These suits carry guns, like all Tau battlesuits, but the guns are typically more like an afterthought affixed to a giant bayonet than a real gun. Others carry weapons more like shotguns. They aren't as agile in melee combat as a Space Marine or Aspect Warrior, but they are just as durable and importantly, more replaceable. Their job is more to serve as a wall keeping close-combat forces away from the firing line more than anything else.
These suits became known as Predator Battlesuits (or maybe some other name to avoid confusion with the predator tank, there seems to be no comparable word other than “hunter” in the published lexicon) as the Tau name for them referred to a particularly nasty species of predator native to T’au.

>>51623962
The Predator Battlesuits’ focus on defense as opposed to offense still keeps the lack of dedicated melee specialists as the Tau’s biggest weakness, but it means that they are not totally screwed in close combat and Tau commanders can be on the front lines without being shredded. It also means the Tau can effectively engage in Glorious Melee Combat if they have to (and are not a complete joke about it), even though they prefer not to if given the choice.
It also makes sense that given the increased cultural contact between the Tau and the other races that they would put two and two together and go “what if…we made melee weapons, and put them on our battlesuits to make up for our lack of physical strength”.
It’s kind of like how Shaka Zulu independently introduced melee combat to South Africa by making iklwa and Nguni shields standard army weapons, which revolutionized warfare and scared the crap out of everyone else who, like the Tau, avoided fighting in melee if at all possible.

>>51623962
>>51623980
Building on this: I was thinking about Tau close-combat weapons, and come up with two ideas.
One, for battlesuits and the like: explosive reactive armor, with a casing designed to fragment into a spray of lethal ceramic shrapnel. Provides additional protection against ranged attacks, or can be command-detonated to create a claymore-like kill-zone. Less effective against heavily armored targets, but lethal against, say, Dark Eldar.
Two, for infantry: flechette grenades, too light to penetrate standard Tau armor but shredding anything more lightly armored, like the Dark Eldar. The idea simply being to pull the pin then just drop it at your feet; you'll be fine, but not anyone closing to melee with you. At least, as long as they're more lightly armored than you are. Like the Dark Eldar.
In conclusion: fuck the Dark Eldar.

>>51623626
>the ring was a ring built around one of the planets rather than an actual ringworld. The Raid took place on two planets on the Cthonia system, rather than on the ringworld itself where you'd think the action would be.
Having written that battle, no, it's a ringworld, the raid was on it, and while the planets were attacked it was to establish orbital superiority and disrupt the imperium's grip on the ring.

>>51624252
Wouldn't the construction of a ringworld involve dismantling any and all planets in the same system?