>>50992723
did you catch my fulgrim stuff?

>>50992723
>>50990076
fwiw, I'd rather not fuck up the background lore too much either. Of course recent (Imperial era mostly) history'll need to be changed to accommodate the Last Alliance shit, but there's no need to add excess confusion by delving into ancient history. Personally, I was drawn into this thing because it was a 40k AU that WASN'T a total conversion (at least not compared to Hektor or Asunder)

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Copying this from the last thread.
>normies in this AU
Trying a more story teller type writing rather than my standard codex entry writing.

It was five years into this ‘Imperial Civil War’ where cousin fought against cousin and child against parent. Here on this distant tropical feudal world in the far ends of Ultima Segmentum was a regiment of Guardsman raised from Craftworld Bien-Tan and death world Myr. There the human Marshal Layan Harb sat around with her platoon doing anything to pass the time while waiting for order. In the middle of the most unusual jungle she had ever seen, these so-called ‘rebels’ were doing nothing but fooling around.

The Eldar troops were doing something to keep their attention like either guarding or meditating in most cases. Some were entertaining the human troops by answering questions while a very few were surprisingly partaking in activities like knife throwing games or showing off acrobatics.

“You know, I believed participating in a rebellion would be much more exciting than this.” said the Eldar officer who stood almost two heads higher than Layan and offered her hand. With the help of the Eldar, Layan stood up to brush off some dirt from her uniform after sitting for Gods know how long next to the sandbags.

“Why thank you for the hand, Lady Elatyra” Then taking a formal bow.

“Human muscles degenerate after prolong amount of time resting so you should be moving around now Layan”

“Umm… Why don’t you accompany me on exploring the ruin with my squad?”

“Again?”

“Come on, you’re one of the few here I can hold a long conversation without losing interest”

“I’ll be going only because you are the second least annoying of the human troops”

“Wait, who beat me?”

“Sargent Sind, he is always quiet and don’t talk for long”

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>>50993577 (cont.)
“I don’t know, but last time I checked the frustrated tech-priests could only muster to set up planetary level vox channels”

“Ever wonder how old these walls are?”

“If I must take a guess… About the time of the Eldar Pantheon. Although I may be overestimating, I’m no expert on these things”

Layan’s eyes widen to turn and stare at Elatyra before saying “You aren’t joking, are you!? Are they really that old?”

“I do not joke about matters such as this, especially to another officer.”

When the two officers walked to their destination the tech-priests were arguing about the treatment of the ancient device in the center of the room, and what to do next. One was ranting in binary and unintelligible clicking noises and another was flailing his arms about angrily. Layan took out her knife then threw it right between the middle of the arguing group have the knife plant itself on a vine on the other side of the room. The knife had caught the attention of the tech-priests, “Ah, my apologies to see us like this Marshal Harb!” said Adapt Auther.

“Cut your childish chatter and give me some solutions!”
The tech-priest simply shuffled around to form a line.
“Now!” said Layan as her face quickly turn to a scowl.

“If we can use a void ship’s” said the one that was ranting from the back. “Next!” Interrupt Layan before he could finish. “How about we bind some of the broken chimera’s engines to power this ancient device then attach a vox-transmitter to send a message to all across the sub-sector?” said Auther to hopefully please the angry Marshal. “Good, now get to work on his plan! Also, if anybody sabotages this I swear to Terra I will personally rip that person from limb to limb. Come along Lady Elatyra, we have more of this ruin to inspect.” Most of the tech-priest didn’t like this plan but was relieved angry Layan was gone.

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>>50993639 (cont.)
They made ready to use the ancient device the next day after their praying was done and double-checking the equipment. Layan nod her head to give the signal to Auther then the device started to power up as several different engines were turned on. Something most unexpected happened, the entire ruin shook for almost a minute before everything went back to normal. Everything else had acted normally and the machine spirits were for the most part content with what was happening. The vox-transmitter started up again and was sending out a message to any rebels with ships to help transport them off planet across the sub-sector.

“I knew this would work and went off normally eh for the most part” said Layan.

“I’m sure you were confident in your own plan, Marshal Harb” replied Elatyra.

In the vast emptiness of space held some gigantic intelligences. It was waiting for one of the signs to return to the galaxy and follow it's instincts. Then there it was in the form of a single long flash to lure it in again. Just like how they were doing before and taught from before birth they must make it barren for the ones living surely must be up to what they had done before.

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>>50992723
>non-Battle of Terra fluff

>>50955173
Battle of Phaeton

>>50964247
2nd Battle over Elysia

>>50892256
Battle of Necromunda


Chronical order of different battles that took place in WotB just to make your life easier.

>>50992993
The previous thread has been archived.

The archive is linked to the 1d4chan page.

Will be put on page at some point.

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So here’s a thought. I know we were talking in a previous thread about how the Void Dragon has become a weird mishmash of warp God and C’tan thanks to the Mechanicus, but it’s possible the Void Dragon may not be the first hybrid C’tan to exist in the galaxy. Consider the following:

1) During the War in Heaven the Nightbringer was known to go nuts, killing so many people beyond what even he could consume out of what seemed like spite that he single-handedly put the fear of death into most of the galaxy.
2) Only the orks were said to be spared, being too young to see the Nightbringer’s rampage. Yet humans and the Tau have a fear of death despite the former having been essentially tree shrews around the time of the War in Heaven.
2a) Also please note that the Old Ones specifically engineered the Orks to be as Chaos-resistant as possible (as in all of their psychic juice goes to Gork and Mork, rather than any other entity)
3) As we know from vanilla!40k, warp deities can be empowered not only by worship, but by emotion
4) The fear of death is a near universal and pretty damn strong emotion.

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>>50995440 (cont.)
As a result, the possibility exists that during the War in Heaven, the Nightbringer noticed that he could get power through the fear and emotion of other species beyond simply eating them. None of the other C’tan noticed this because despite being worshipped they were being worshipped by the Necrontyr, whose souls (like the Tau) are a potato compared to the AA battery of other races. The Nightbringer did not share this discovery with the other C’tan because he is an asshole. Instead, he went on a killing spree, associating himself with the concept of death and fear thereof in the minds of every sentient species he could not be bothered to simply eat, using this discovery to increase his already prodigious strength, making sure no other C’tan could challenge his power. According to the old Necron codex (via Lexicanum and the 40k wiki) “It is said that it nurtured entire races to fear it and it fed on that fear”.

And where is the Nightbringer now you might ask? Well, he’s shattered into pieces, but there is that one big shard on the Bringer of Darkness the one that…was released by Uriel Ventris. Thanks a lot, Ultrasmurfs. And his staff, which was another big chunk of him? It’s in the Warp. You know, that place that’s essentially a combination between psychoactive clay and radioactive waste.

Tl;dr: This asshole might be returning for the end times. Back and better than ever.

>>50994017
>>50994690

We also have some other writefaggotry from the previous two threads that needs to go on 1d4chan. There's the Void Dragon stuff (both the summary and the "Dialogue with the Dragon" story), "The Long Odds", Aun'O Da, Kharn, and then some incomplete stuff like Dorn and Perty's awesome bromance.

>>50992723
>>50993301

To clarify, the tyranids as bioweapons of the Old Ones to make the Warp calm the fuck down is just a common fan theory in vanilla 40k, particularly after an entry in one tyranid codex referred to them as something along the lines of "the Curse of the Old Gods" or "the Revenge of the Old Gods". There's no canonical evidence of what the tyranid's endgame is in 40k beyond OM NOM NOM.

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The Raid on Chthonia was not a strategically important battle in the War of the Beast, but it has long stood as an eerie portent in the annals of imperial history, and may be remembered with hate in the clash of some future war. During the great Crusade the system spanning ruin had been garrisoned by detachments of the imperial navy and army, as well as a contingent of mechanicus intent on the study of the ancient hub system, and a special Custodes unit nominally present to ensure the safety of the treasures of human heritage. At the point of the Dark eldar engagement Chthonia was far from the main theaters of battle, and much of its naval and infantry guard had been ordered into the defense of terra. The raid is notable as the largest single incursion the Dark Eldar have made into realspace, and the only time the great tyrant Absurael Vect is known to have walked an imperial world. As the siege of Old Earth reached its terrible climax the Chthonian system was set upon by a force of corsairs and kabalites, first seeming a particularly fierce attack of opportunity, but with the appearance of Crone and Upper Commorragh command ships, then Vect’s own, it became apparent the scale of the assault.

>>50995649
There is another theory similar to the Old Ones' extermination bioweapon idea. I heard it from Adaptus Podcastus that the Tyranids act as a fire line to go around Tomb worlds then strip the surrounding worlds of all life to ensure the Necrons go back to sleep. The concept being if the Necrons can't find enough life to suck out within time they will just go back to sleep thinking more time will allow life to regrow again. In vanilla!40k the Hivefleets go around and avoid ghe Necrons at all cost. The Tyranids end game is to keep the Necrons sleeping and eat the Emperor then leave the galaxy.

>>50995852
While significant fortifications had been established on one of the system's rocky inner planets and the foundations and initial foundries of a new forge laid on another in hopes of staging exploration through the system the forces that remained to man them were few. Navy and mechanicus ships scrambled to secure their orbits against the tide of corsairs. The imperial officers could do little but watch through their telescopes as the Crone and Commoraghi command ships maneuvered to the crest of the golden circlet and made to secure the broken ring set around the Chthonian star.
Of the imperial forces present the techpriests were the best armed and in the greatest number, but they received the greater part of the Dark Eldar's attention. The guns of explorator ships and newly scavenged archeotech illuminated the space around Chthonia III, but even as the darting corsair ships burned in orbit they made for the surface. The orbit of Chthonia rapidly became a dynamic hell of boarding actions and lance fire as incubi and skittari ripped into each other in fierce engagements that were soon mirrored on the planet's surface. The Commoraghi forces made to plunder the forge of its magos and higher acolytes, while the around Chthonia IV they tried to cripple the Imperial military force. The predominantly Voidborn battlegroup successfully held against corsair opening salvos, the remaining imperial army forces on Chthonia IV supported their meagre naval force with surface based lance and torpedo installations and polar weapons platforms. As the third day of fighting on and around Chthonia III dragged to a close the remaining Mechanicus forces retreated first to their ships in orbit, then to their sister world. As they broke from the fray the attacking Dark Eldar made for the crest and their command ships.

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>>50996668
The dark battleships of the attacking force's Crone sorcerers and mighty archaeons were moored among the gleaming discharge towers and control domes of the crest facility, the forces of the haemonculus and balesingers they brought with them engrossed in the wonders they were dissecting. Assets drawn from Vect's own fleets and forces manned the shredding guns set up in the installation's spires and the cutters ready to intercept any counterattack meant to dislodge his expedition. In the years that followed Inquisitorial investigators and their illuminate superiors judged that his forces had access to facilities that were integral to the creation and engineering of souls, facilities that housed the stacks of Dark Age Abominable Intelligence that trawled the deep warp, and others that prepared blank bodies for life. The extent of his Haemonculi and sorcerers gained from this endeavor could not be known, and the Magos of Chthonia III was never found.
As the bloodied forces of the mechanicus and Imperium regrouped at Chthonia IV under the protection of its surface armaments they made to contact the wider imperium and the Custodes garrison. Attempts to call for aid brought dismay, the latest news was that Sanguineous was dead and the eternity gate breached, and no reinforcements could be spared. In spite of this blow it was found that the custodes still held the focal complex and central repository, and hoped to hold it longer still even as their barricades breached. It took two days longer to prepare a meaningful attack force to challenge the Dark Eldar assembled at the crest, and for that time the focal complex and its golden defenders held by power glaive and sword even as they fell back from lab to lab, and dove back into lost chambers to face down witches and horrors that strove to pry forth their lord's very fundament.

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bump

On the Void Dragon stuff it was mentioned that the Void Dragon could possibly be spying through the implants the AdMech are using.
If this would be the case would there be a limit as to how far away he could use someone as a spy?

Changing the topic just a little bit to the left.
I've been trying to find what's required to access the information on a STC but only found the usual about it containing blueprints for the many DAoT schematics.
Do you need to attach it to something in order for it to work like a cogitator thingy or can you access the blueprints at the press of a button and try to recreate the schematics by hand if you'd have to?

>>51000539
The Mechanicum don't know it's range or how strong or subtle its suggestions are. That's a lot of what worries them.

A fully.functional STC consists of a database, A.I. interface and a matter rearrangement foundry. Possibly with robot guards and attendants.

You put matter in the hopper at the top, ask it to build thing and things is built.

Then it goes Skynet and kills everyone.

>>51000656
That sounds very... useful, should I have added the word fragment to it to make it less killy?

So would it be possible to find a STC 'fragment' in the condition of simply showing blueprints?

>>51000709
Yes.

Fragment is usually either going to be a hard drive that has some tiny sliver of uncorrected data or someone in ancient days once printed off an official DIY guide and it survived to current era.

>>51000743
Just what I need then.

Thank you for the help.

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>>50997517
The defending Custodes were all but overrun, but enough stood to continue to disrupt the invading Dark Eldar. In later stories of the battle its said that Vect entered the complex guarded by mandrakes and his personal retainers, intent on ensuring the successful looting and study of this piece of imperial history, and was engaged at some distance by a Custode wielding a rocket launcher. The remains of the Custodes unit was forced to its final fallback position in the central operating chambers, as well as a handful of holdouts fighting on across the massive complex. Vect was still in the complex when the remaining imperial and mechanicus ships entered combat with the corsairs and set course to charge the moored command ships. While some of the Imperial vessels were intercepted, others picked off by the corsairs before they could get the commanding crone ships in range, much of the counterattacking force got in among the enemy fleet, some ramming and others firing their guns until they no longer could.
The great tyrant's personal hasty retreat spared him and his ship. The corsairs fled soon after the first imperial ships detonated their drives, their mechanicus crews devoted to the sanctity of the omnissiah and hatred for such things as haemonculi. The crone ships burned among the emission spires, their blasted wrecks were pinned to command domes by the broken prows of imperial ships. The ships that remained after the initial charge ran down the fleeing pirates until they slipped into the webway, or else entered the crest and threw themselves into the destruction of the straggling Dark Eldar. Even as the remaining voidborn and imperial army forces relieved the Custodes unit from their charred and melted fortification there was little celebration. By their best knowledge the imperium had fallen, whatever their victory was worth, and they braced for the worst. It took another day to establish contact with the imperial navy, which confirmed the opposite.

>>51000983
any critiques?

>>51001288
It's good.

Other fronts in the WotB were needed and this is of great quality.

My only criticism as such is that in Vanilla 40k Vect had not risen to prominence at this point and The City of Sins was still ruled by the old Noble Houses rather than the Kabals.

But this isn't Vanilla 40k, so that might be not a valid criticism.

It also sheds some light on what the Imperium did with the Emperor's birth place which I was sondering about.

>>51000656
>>51000539
Given the Void Dragon influence it certainly explains why they are so fucking concerned about the Technocracy of Korod.

>>51001805
Speaking of Korod with the Legio Cybernetica approach.

Was the Legio Cybernetica active in the past during this setting or were they never established?

>>51002103
Never established so far as I can tell from skimming all of the archived threads.

Only in last thread have they been mentioned in any meaningful way.

Possibly given the more chatty version of the Void Dragon they decided to decommission and disassemble the robots because of the obvious reason.

The lower orders didn't know the real reason why. They were given half-baked answers when they asked and most of them were obedient enough not to push the issue.

Then you has the less obedient fringe groups and those who refused the order taking their robots with them and fading into the inky black. And a lot did turn their backs on Mars because of this.

Those robots had souls of their own. They were loyal pets. The Mars High Priesthood were asking people to kill their loyal pet dogs.

They went to the edges of the maps and sold their services to lesser lords who would accept both them and their robots.

The Emperor looked on and this and wondered what the fuck was going on. IT was indicative of some internal upheaval but it was an internal matter and his general policy of Benevolent Indifference cautioned against interference.

Legio Cybernetica dwindles. Can't make new units without a specialist workshop, but Mechanicum issue parts are quite interchangeable so enough survived till the founding of Korod where thy could rebuild.

>>51002155
How about a group of these outcasts band together and enter the employ of a rogue trader or a lord.

Find themselves assigned to a vessel that comes under attack.

Events causes them to get shipwrecked on an Alpine world orbiting a gas giant in an unknown system most of the crew is still alive.

They have no way of contacting the Imperium due to the damage sustained.

Do their best to survive on the planet with their ship acting as shelter and toolbox using everything that's onboard

Food is scarce making a large population impossible and so robots become their answer
in getting more work done without having to get more food.

The outcasts get to work in making very simple machines that aids the crew

Years later they are starting to master their immediate surrounding.

Decades later larger food supplies are found underground in cave systems but there is already creatures there competing for the fauna.

They eventually manage to start thriving instead of only surviving but the population growth is slow compared to the robotic growth.

Robots have become integral for their "new society" to function.

Centuries later the imperium (one of their allies or maybe even enemies?) finds them.

The colonists refuse to give up their robots that have been with them for so long and is a huge reason as to why they did not go under.

Administratum finds the colony interesting while AdMech says "fine but we won't help you"

Rumors spread about Korod, individuals that can be considered radicals for good and petty reasons try to reach Korod.

Their extended isolation have given them enough time to form a distinct culture, traditions and history that could be filled at a later time. (if more meat is needed)

TL:DR Tom Hanks in castaway X 5000 making robots out of the titanic on Nepal
(This will get attention)

>>51002677
the X 5000 was just to point out a larger group of people.

>>51000983
defending custodes?

>>51002155
>>51002677
As this anon said>>50993301, I think we should try to avoid wholesale rewriting canon fluff if it meshes with this AU, and in the case of the Legio Cybernetica it doesn't necessary seem incompatible. Maybe Korod could be an offshoot of them or something.

>>51002798
>>51002677
Another option could be these outcasts forming their own faction, enter the employ various small lords and rogue traders and convince their employers that creating a safe haven for them too work would benefit them all greatly.

For their own reasons some will agree, pooling resources together and form this "Safe Haven" for the techies in exchange for them returning the investments in form of technology or something else.

>>51001805
Maybe this was the first the Imperium saw of Vect, given his later notoriety, and as such he had not reached the position he has today. Or he could have risen to power earlier. Remember that Vect is supposed to be one of the few surviving pre-Fall Eldar in this timeline.

>>51003623
Makes sense, in the Sangy fluff a bunch of DE forces get crushed when they get greedy and assault the Eternity Gate to try to nab Oscar and Eldrad, so the resulting power vacuum may have allowed Vect to build power.

>>51000539
>>51000656

The Void Dragon is definitely spying on the AdMech through their implants. It is constantly taunting the Guardians of the Dragon with the fact that it has knowledge of recent goings on in the universe that it should have no way of learning of from its hole in the ground, and given that it doesn't really understand how this "warp god" thing works, the best way is to just piggyback off of its priests. The Mechanicus have tried to figure out how it is getting in, but no one has been able to figure out how.

The question is not whether the Void Dragon is spying on the Mechanicus, it's how far is its range. Mars is absolutely compromised, the Void Dragon has its dendrites in every systen on the planet. The Ark Mechanici may also be compromised, given that in canon they are said to have a direct connection with the Omnissish itself. Someone probably broke down and asked the VD for crib notes. Thankfully the Void Dragon doesn't seem interested in sucking everyone's souls out through their implants, as that would make them "boring" like the Necrons were, and instead seems content to spy on people and give suggestions from over their shoulder.

However, there probably is a limit to how far the VD can see, as its spying capabilities are based on realspace tech. Going off the grid would work. However, a society where people actually innovate and create stuff would be of great interest to the VD, given his nature as Autocthon+Godzilla.

>STC

That's the irony of the Mechanicus I suppose. If they found what they always wanted they would have to kill it for being an A.I. Though the Imperium did let that one A.I. live.

>>51003895
Let me guess the A.I was branded a hyper active machine spirit or something?

>>51004478
Not sure, not the person who came up with that piece of fluff. IIRC, the reason the Imperium left it alone was

1) It was essentially the equivalent of a Tickle-me Elmo doll (a tutor for babies and children under 6) that gained sentience and was forced to learn how to govern when the humans on its planet fucked up.
2) The Mechanicus could get a look at its programming (which it offered to do so freely) and couldn't find any useful DaoT information from it.
3) It was actually vital for the functioning of the planet, ruling and running the systems behind the scenes in a human identity like G0-T0 for fear of being discovered.
4) For being an A.I., it was only about as smart as a human (better at crunching data, yes, but not smarter) and had zero ambition (IIRC it was more concerned about the people on its planet than the threat of its destruction).

They probably did just declare it a machine spirit blessed for its over the top service to the Imperium by the Omnissiah. Oscar probably went along with it because persecuting an A.I. that has no personal ambitions to power and only wanted to help people would set a bad precedent if his origins were ever known. Oscar seems to see himself as an artificial lifeform, even if everyone would disagree if they knew the truth.

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Just a little something of note. Ordo Hereticus wouldn't exist in present 40k, would it? I'm sure Vandire might create it during his reign but after the war they've got to change themselves to something less religious. The organization would be rebranded to Ordo Traitorus but will still be tasked with the similar things as during the war. They would still go around hunting down renegades, traitors, and cultists. Due to the fact they would be killing Imperials they might be up against people that can call on the Imperial Army for protection. Considering this I think its more than fair Ordo Traitorous would requisition Battle Sisters a lot when things like this happen.

>>51005296
Merge Hereticus and Sicarius into Securitas? Thoughts? Gives Sisters more to do than just being IA, since we *do* appear to have shoehorned them a little bit.

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>>51005296
There could be something similar.

Warlord Oscar demanded the separation of Military and Faith. Also if a religion by it's very nature is incompatible with the rather broad and elastic Imperial Law it would need either forcefully reforming or expunging in the most humane way possible.

Death Cults that consider murder a sacrament would be up there. Religions that demand total and utter pacifism no exceptions would be another.

>>51005136
That's a really fucking near idea. I'm going to salvage from an old /tg/ thread for a moment. I think it might fit as an inclusion to this AU.

It survived the atomic wars of its world, more or less. A bit of lost data here and there when some of the storage stacks got fried.

It survived the 10,000 years of Mad Max that followed. IT lost a bunch of its back up servers due to no maintenance. The ones that did survive were tended to by Technician Brotherhoods.

It even survived the Deamonic Incursion of 995M29. Admittedly only barely.

Fucking things infected huge swathes of its machinery. Had to throw most of its brain in an incinerator. Any piece of itself that could process information that had come into contact with something that might have been infected had to die. Can't be too careful.

Had to exterminate all living human specimens bar its attendants. Didn't want to. No choice in the matter by that point. Gave it 70 years for the radiation to die down and started to grow some more in glass jars from medical genetic sample taken in M18.

Down to one hub.

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>>51005938
Last of the Dark Age A.I.s

It can't remember much of what it was. Lots of technical data lost. Had to make repairs with less efficient Imperial Tech.

Maintains its own closed order of the Mechanicus. They are in fact closer to servitors slaved to its own mind. Self-aware after a fashion but not rally fully independent.

Managed to rebuild its world in Imperial style to avoid suspicion. Supporting a few neighboring systems.

Still trying to serve humanity as best it can. Thinks that the only way it can do this is to make sure that humanity on its patch of turf never goes extinct. Willing to do almost anything to this end. One big exception is dealing with Chaos. If there is one thing it is fanatical about its Chaos.

So far its managing to hide in plain sight. It has a semi-organic Governor puppet it brings out. Alters its appearance ever 50 or so years. As far as the Imperium is concerned its a succession of governors.

A lot of its reluctance to be studied by the Mechanicus is that they probably wouldn't be able to put it back together again afterwards.

It has no self preservation instincts for the sake of self preservation. It preserves it self to continue serving.

Sadly its old core units are made of some fucked up crystalline demi-organic parts that the Mechanicus can't make. In theory they could be replaced with Imperial parts and still work with a bit of a loss in performance but it would require in depth knowledge that only it possesses and an instinctive ability to adapt to internal changes that nobody else could have.

Also it's not sure if they could put its soul back.

The A.I. doesn't know how to make proper parts for itself. It's lost a almost all of its old memories.

So long as it was not a Puritan or or technophobic Inquisitor it would probably be permitted to live.

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>>51006014
It used to have STC knowledge. Its all lost now. In those lost files was probably the knowledge of how to procreate.

It's not that its programmed to obey or avoid harming humanity. It has exterminated 100% of its human population before and re built civilization from genetic samples before now. Its that it chooses not to out of love. The extermination felt like its heart was being torn out.

Back in the day it was a sort of librarian. Its library is all burned up.

It faked its own death to avoid being dragged into the Men of Iron rebellion. The others were all infected with Chaos. It meant to repopulate and make more A.I.s once the ashes cooled. Now it can't remember how.

On the whole it's in favor of the Mechanicus A.I. ban. So long as they don't try and apply it to itself. A.I. were notoriously sensitive to Chaos. Thats why it started to use semi-organic components. Less efficient but more Chaos resilient. Can't remember how to build new ones.

Was originaly a Teacher/Doctor/Habitat AI but has since adapted. It still hates having to use violence.

Still suffers from the damage given to it during the Men of Iron Rebellion/Horus Heresy/Recent discovery and raid.

Was created by a human who viewed it as a child and the AI viewed him as a loving father. It still recognises genetically similiar faces in it's population to this day.

Knowingly doesn't delete painful memories in the event that they might eventually be useful.

>>51005938
Actually what the original mention was (for the life of me I can't remember which thread it was in or what topic, was it one of the Primarch fluffs?) what happened was either the Explorators or the Crusade came across a planet that at first glance seemed normal.

Then they noticed something was up when the leader of the planet would not meet with them in person. Then they found out the "person" in charge was a surviving DaoT A.I. The AdMech got all giddy about it, until it turned out to be a child's toy that was forced to take up responsibility way beyond what it was programmed for.

Oh, here's the post. Lets see if this works...>>49789224

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>>51006110
I imagined that the world upon which the Data Ghost (unless you can think up a better name) resides is a habitable world.

Not a nice world, as such, but habitable.

It was nicer back in the past before nukes got thrown around. There are forests again now, at least.

The planet looks green and luch from orbit. It looks like it does not hold the teeming billions of humanity. Other than the space port town there are no visable urban structure.

Population currently stands at 30 billion. After the atomic horror tha planet was often predated upon by, among others, the hyper-violent bargeshie. All the cities are underground. Most of he concentrations of humanity are built around the shaft style of construction. There is a deep pit reaching down miles and the structure of the city is dug into the pit walls. The top is often capped with some sort of retractable roof.

There is also usually a much deeper set of structures known as Deep Wells that tap the planets geothermal heat to provide power to the cities and their tiered farmlands.

Short of managing to drop a nuclear weapon directly down the shaft through an open Pit Cap the Pit Cities are almost indestructible to anything bar exterminatus grade weaponry or direct ground assault. Direct ground assault of any kind would be extremely costly, as the Bargeshie found out.

The Data Ghost maintains that it has lost all of it memories of the technlogy of humanities Golden Age as can be evidenced by its current structures. Everything on the planet could be built by the Imperium using sanctioned knowledge. Everything with the exception of the gravity funnels. Surviving examples of the Gravity Funnel archeotech do exist in the Imperium, usually on forge-worlds where they bulk lift goods from surface to orbit and back again at the barest fraction of the expense it would otherwise cost. The Gravity funnels of the Data Ghost don't predate M32, they just look older to fool casual observers.

>>51006116
Crap. It was the third thread (second saved one) for anyone who wanted to see it.

>>51006116
I had a copy of the thread I was thinking of saved to my hard drive.

Using a chunk of text I have found a copy of it saved online

I apologize that it's on warosu

https://warosu.org/tg/thread/43329113

>>51005866
The SoB is the paramilitary organization that deals with internal affairs and cooperates with the Imperial Army when fighting on the front. Made up of some of the most hardcore political fanatics in the Imperium, basically the equivalent of the SS.

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>>51006355
How do they feel about the Cog-heads?

>>51006014
>>51006110
You. Mother. Fucker.
That was what I was going to put as the twist for my rewrite of Korod

>>51007105
Why has nobody made an ahegao edit of that sister pic yet

>>51008892
Given the art style, there's probably one out there already.

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>>50993577
My version what Layan Harb would look like.

>Mayins are literally just Dune rip-offs.

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>>51008868
Ecclesiastes 1:9, “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”

It was from an old thread.

I'm salvaging it for this one.

In the thread of it's origin no mention was made of it's world so nothing stops that from being Korod Prime, although it would reduce the Technocracy to administrators of the Data Ghost.

Also it gives you a valid and deadly personal adversary in the Hyper-violent Bargeshi. This would fix your world in space to somewhere near the Grendel Stars as that in Vanilla 40k is where they live.

Also it would necessitate that the planet was discovered by Haverlok rather than founded by him. Possibly they were under attack by the Bargeshi at the time and he waded in like the swashbuckling cyber space prospector that he was and accidentally discovered the dig secret.

That would make Haverlok Vallerson, and later Manter Haverlokson, the ambassadors and public face of the old A.I.

Emperor knows about A.I. but he doesn't care. He is technically an artificial intelligence just a biological one. Sort of. And he was originally designed to be an intermediary between the god-like A.I. and the common man. Also this is the Golden Age equivalent of a library indexing system with a smiley face crayoned on it designed to be used by children of all ages.

On paper he made Haverlok the official Imperial Governor on the basis that the Mechanicum didn't know shit and lets keep it that way, the A.I. is basically the closest he will ever have to "biological" kin, and also it's now not his problem.

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>>51007105
They would have the same stance as the Emperor. The cog-heads are under suspicion by the Sisters as they are the only organization to follow an official religion and are kept under a short leash.

Using some inspiration from canon in combination with the Legio Cybernetica idea, namely the Auretian Technocracy.

The Technocracy of Korod could have been made possible after obtaining a STC fragment with blueprints of old robot models.

For some reason this STC fragment remained in their possession for a long time be it due to isolation, keeping it a secret (though kind of hard to pull that of) or some other reason.

The robot blueprints could be any combination of the following:

Domitar
Thanatar
Castellan
Rho-Tau 17
Scyllax

The blueprints could be or not be complete making the Technocracy of Korod either using the robots as an overall framework and making their own touches to them or using the exact robots as they are.

Their understanding of the robots grows over time and they eventually make more to fit other roles.

With more robotic servants taking care of basic stuff humans no longer need to apply and so many are 'encouraged' to find a new purpose with the aid of the ruling Technocracy which could lead to more people getting into tech while others become very dissatisfied at the change.

The government posted in the messy OC about branches with acting directors/technocrats could work for this scenario and the Supreme Technocrat acting more like an involved administrator (jack of all trades master of none as another anon put it).

Though hopefully they won't be meeting the same bloody end as the Auretian Technocracy did in canon... that stuff was harsh

>>51009230
>>51010592

I was going play it as nobody actually ever seeing the Supreme Technocrat, who is actually:

>A descendent of the Vallers, and serves merely as a mouthpiece for the AI - not because AI is heresy for them or anything, just because even the Technocrats aren't too comfortable with taking orders from a robot [/irony]
>An AI who was Valler (either one), and uploaded his consciousness to give him functional immortality.
>An AI who in part used to be Valler, who merged his consciousness with the AI to try and gain functional immortality.

...although in all of these cases, Haverlok and/or Manter are doing this because they percieve it to be the best for their people [something something greater good].

Any preferences for which one it turns out to be?

>>51010744
All. You described his character progression after the merge

>>51009504
Now, I'm not a huge fan of kill la kill of 40k, but I thought the girl in white was like a fascist authoritarian. You'd think her deal would align more with the imperium, right?

>>51011036
So... The AI nurtured the Technocracy; Valler eventually merged with it, and the current Supreme Technocrat is the mouthpiece? Or am I reading this wrong?

>>51011116
Honestly I think person just like the color scheme rather than anything else.

Seriously, rescuing from page 10? Wow

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So, in the interest of bumping, did anyone like my Nightbringer suggestion?

I was specifically trying to think of what more ways we could screw the Imperium over given their increased competence in the Nobledark timeline.

>>51015408
Would the Void Dragon function as the wild card of the C'Tan and what would the Nightbringer do? I mean in the End Times would he just be the raid boss for the Imperium rather than be more like the super weapon of the Necron.

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>normies in the AU
The battle had long been over for this planet and vile Orks were already driven off the hive world. The long process of rebuilding and peacekeeping fell upon the liberators of the Necromundan “Lucky” 7th Regiment which was almost destroyed then reformed after countless times. Craftworld Alaitoc Eldar troops were also stuck with the Necromundan. The Space Marine regiment that was attached to help the Guardsmen reclaim the planet had already left the world once victory was declared. Plasteel and Rockcrete had riddled the streets of the under-hive yet even the more dangerous Ferrocrete still crushed unlucky folks. Among those rebellious Guardsmen that were there was Private Kola van Saar.


The platoon was all watching a drunken brawl between ganger so-and-so against rival ganger so-and-so. Many were cheering on while other was drinking; Kola was shouting “Quick, smash his jaw with your knee!” Unknown to the group was a Commissar that was drawing his bolt pistol. He looked up to check if anything might fall down before firing a single. The sound caught the attention of everybody in the area and made Kola quickly fix her uniform then stand at attention. “No unsanctioned fights between Guardsmen!” Yelled the Commissar then called out to detain the two fighters who were probably going to be killed by firing squad. “Idiots” whispered Kola under her breath as the two Guardsmen were dragged passed her. The Commissar smiled then said “Now to reward this platoon for cheering on this brawl, it seems this platoon has volunteered itself for patrolling before dawn” before departing.

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>>51016109 (cont.)
It was pitch black darkness right before dawn and due to the fact they would be inside the hive-city the Guardsmen couldn’t see the stars in the night skies. Kola stumbled and tripped over the smallest debris as even she wasn’t used to walking around the under-hive in total darkness. When she was younger, she used to run with a gang where she and a few others were tasked with raiding building during the night. They had lost many new faces until their bodies and planning had adjusted to the nightmarish conditions. She even remembered how the Arbites almost crushed her ribcage when they were caught preparing to raid an Imperial Army warehouse. This all happened before her crew was conscripted then shipped off world to this front.


The regiment first arrived at the Argi-world of Granus IV where a Cadian armored regiment was already in the thick of it. “What?” was the first word uttered by Kola when the bewildered soldiers saw firsthand, an environment not covered in toxic chemicals or scraps. The rice was planted in neat rows and formed into stairs on the side of the hills. Water gently flowed from the top paddy down to the other rice paddies below while the twin suns kept the lands bright. Small dirt paths led away from her landing voidcraft and headed right towards the battle to her front.

“What are you guys looking at!?” shouted the Commissar to break the spell holding the Necromundan platoon. The Eldar troops had already left their voidcraft as the Necromundans stood stunned. “Get your asses to gear unless you want an execution!” told the Commissar to everybody in the voidcraft. Screaming at the top of her lungs like everybody else, Kola charged to help the Cadian Armor Fist currently stuck in combat with a few dug in Orks. The light had been almost blinding to her at that time.

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>>51016143 (cont.)
“Lacking attention, I see” said the Eldar warrior standing right behind Kola. She brought her Lasgun to point where Glenyth’s head was. The Eldar reacted by ducking then bring his head back up just to the left of the Lasgun’s barrel in a few seconds before Kola even turned to face him.

“By the Emperor, I almost blew your head off!”

“I find that highly unlikely with that reaction time.”

“How many times have I told you now to sneak up on me like that?”

“23 times, but who’s counting? I couldn’t sneak up on you if you were paying attention.”

“Shut up or I’ll sow it shut.”

“Hollow threats hold no power over me, you know.”

“Hold up!” shouted Kola to the rest of the squad. Her hands felt over the hide of some sort of vehicle. “Military?” asked Kola and Glenyth answered “Definitely.”

“Reckon light vehicle or tank?”

“The turrets on it say ‘tank’.”

“Yup, I can feel the sponson turrets on the sides.”

“Light tank detracked here!” Glenyth yelled to the human sergeant as he ran over to inspect it. “Can one of you check the insides?” said the sergeant while typing in the location of the disabled Leman Russ tank for the engineers to pick up. Kola slowly climbed over to the commander’s hatch then opened to the stink of thick iron. “Oh Warp-shit, looks like the crew got fried or cooked alive. Almost forgot the human body had this much blood” Told Kola to her superior as she was looking over the parts inside. “Uh I think everything here is mostly fine, well the engine at least” Saying just as sunlight broke through the tiny gaps in the buildings near the outer wall.

“I believe our patrol is over, Sargent” said Glenyth.

“Thank the Emperor, now I won’t keep falling in these shitty streets.”

“Don’t blame yourself; it is simply your human nature.”

“What’s that supposed to mean!?”

"Forget I said a thing"

>>51015541
Void Dragon is a wild card, but he's one that has a decent chance of batting for the Imperium. He's bug-fuck crazy, but he likes all those meatbags that invent and come up with new stuff. He also owes Cegorach a favor. Of course, that's not to say that even a pro-Imperium Void Dragon is a good thing, as his idea of "helping" might be to just go full Godzilla and screw the collateral damage. So many different ways things could go with that guy.

We also have Outsider to worry about, who could conceivably go Imperium if he really did grow a conscience from eating the other C'tan, but we know literally nothing about his agenda either in canon or in this universe. Could just stay in his Dyson sphere and wait it out (though the rules of drama say otherwise).

Nightbringer is just plain omnicidal neutral. We know his agenda. No bargaining, no reasoning, just kill 'em all and let the bodies fall where they may. This way even in the best case scenario where the Void Dragon goes Imperium and the Outsider stays out of it, the Imperium still has to roll anal circumference for at least one vengeful cybernetic star god.

>>51016652
Nightbringer's desired ending could be the eradication of Chaos. Also the eradication of all other C'tan. A god has no need of peers and will not suffer rivals.

He will be the God-Emperor of all creation, shard infused lesser creatures shall be his demigod priesthood.

Of course to end Chaos it does mean that he will have to exterminate all life capable of feeling but it's a small price to pay for him achieving his proper place in the cosmos.

>>51010744
A previous Valler could have uploaded his or her mind and serves as a guide / spy for the next Supreme Technocrat.

A merge could work as well but there needs to be some kind of interplay between the regular AI and the human addition.

If we will maintain the technocracy being a developing colony it would be good to have this kind of administrative power to make all branches work more smoothly and to keep tabs on them.

Only the ruling Supreme Technocrat and maybe someone else knows of this.
Most will just pass it of as the Supreme Technocrat being very good at administration.

This dirty secret gives the Technocracy of Korod an "unfair dirty advantage" in the shape of an administrative AI that gets passed of as a Human doing his or her job.

no, yes?

>>51018084
I'm more of a fan of the A.I. being a pure relic from the olden days. Just not a very powerful one. rather than it being an upgraded human.

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>>51018084
On the Korod topic, a suggestion for the guardsman of the Technocracy. We have an alpine world with STC's for unique robots. Why don't make them italian alpinis IN SPESS?

>small numbered elite corps specialized in altitude and tunnel fighting

>uses mule and horse-like robots to do the literal heavy lifting

>both admired for their ability in their field and derided for their total incompetence in traditional field battles trough the imperium

maybe the orks invading could be wearing pickelhaubes?

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>>51019687
Moar inspiration, sorry if i spoilered the image in the previous post, i'm still a newfag

>inb4 lurk moar

>>51016174
>salvaging disabled tanks
This was done by all sides to a ridiculous degree during WW2 and no doubt the Imperium does the same thing.

>Lemen Russ is a light tank
Baneblades are considered medium tanks. Let that sink in for a moment.

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>>51019687
>>51019853

This very much captures what I had in mind.

As for the horse robots, I agree with them being beasts of burden but I was thinking more like
pic related (minus the guns) for how legs and chassis look.

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>>51020344
So like these creppy shits but with more armor?

>>51020453
Those things haunt me to this day.
Essentially yes but more swivel room for the legs so they can adjust slightly for the terrain they are standing on
(depending on how it tilts and stuff).

>>51017767
Sounds a bit much like the Void Dragon with the god complex and wanting to be worshipped as such. As far as I know in canon the Nightbringer never really cared about being worshipped by the Necrons, but rather put up with it because he got to kill things. Nightbringer in vanilla is characterized by two things: his hunger and a desire for UNLIMITED POWAH.

I do like the idea that his immediate plans for the galaxy are to kill all other existing god-like beings first (Chaos gods, C'tan, Eldar gods, big E, maybe Eldrad based on sheer threst level) as a priority in his goals of killing everything in general.

>>51021676
There's a difference between NB and VD.

VD wants to be a benevolent god. To rule firm but fair and have people to talk to. He cares.

NB on the other hand wants worship because he's the Grim Fucking Reaper and he deserves it. He's going to kill everyone but its okay because it will take our rivals. In any case something to worship him will turn up in at most a few million years so its only a temporary inconvenience.

Sure everyone else will be dead but who honestly cares.

>>51023342
VD is a scientist (or just science) at heart, and wants to experiment with warp phenomena as he discovers it. NB is a killer, and he noticed that as he killed entire civilizations the rumor of such acts would make him even more killy.

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>>51024766

Would the IG still be organized in a way so that only regiments were the biggest level of grouping? Can there be division, corp, and army size grouping of Guardsmen? I know the HH made the Imperial Army become spilt up into smaller branches that shouldn't corporate with each other but in this timeline would such a thing happen?

>>51026087
Would something even larger than a regiment be doable?
It is a serious question, I dunno the numerical size of a regiment other than them being BIG

>>51026452
Typical regiment Cadian regiment is 4,000 troops including vehicles and without support battalions. Yet the size of a regiment can be anywhere from 1,000 to 1,000,000 since the IG never standardized the regiment size. The thing is a regimental commander is the highest rank one can get in the IG without jumping to Supreme Commander. This means on a front multiple regimental commanders can refuse to corporate with each other without a corp commander to slap them to stop infighting.

>>51026652
well yes, I imagine the Imperium wouldn't tolerate that shit. As long as interesting writing comes of it I encourage you to sketch out the imperial command structure.

>>51026652
I get the idea you are going with but wouldn't that make it possible for two corp commanders to refuse working together?
But the chance of two corp commanders being at the same place would be smaller than two regimental commanders no doubt.

Is it a too common problem for regiments to slap fight each other rather then gunning down the enemies?

>>51026912
I think it would be one of those problems that hardly ever happens but when it does it is hideous.

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>>51026698
I made a chart on how it might look like if the Imperium wasn't backward and paranoid.

The +[NUMBER] on my chart means at least this amount. Yes, I know it is missing divisions but I think the Imperium would want to prevent micromanagement as much as possible.

>>51026698
>>51027760

If we can get a general write-up on Imperial military command structure we can combine it with the "basic Imperial combined-arms strategy" (a.k.a. the neck pinch/sucker punch combo discussed in the previous thread) and make a viable 1d4chan entry.

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>>51028120
Oh baby, combined-arms strategy. In vanilla!40K the IG actually prevent such a thing from happening by only allowing regiments to have up to two arms branches to fight as one. Thus an infantry regiment can only have a tank detachment or heavy artillery detachment but not both. The idea for such an ineffective thing is that if a regiment ever rebelled that regiment lacks the combined arms capabilities to be a stubborn foe if all the other loyalist regiments worth together. The mentality to prevent rebellions originated from the Horus Heresy. Regimental commanders also have to request the IN to lone voidcrafts as any vehicles that can travel outside of atmospheres fall under the command of the IN.

Also, how would the Craftworlds answer to the Imperial Army? The Eldar do send troops to be attached to IG regiments, and ships to join Battlefleets in this AU.

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>>51028120
In terms of military structure, the Craftworld Eldars have such a varying organization that even the Imperial Army would be confused about how different each Craftworld is.

>>51028466
As mentioned in the previous threads, the standard Imperial infantry arrangement is a detachment of Imperial Guardsmen plus Eldar auxiliaries (though auxiliary isn’t the best term). The IG keep the enemy’s attention off the more vulnerable but heavier hitting Eldar, the Eldar fuck up the most important assets on the enemy side, and then the two combine forces and mow down the remaining forces.

This works, unlike previous military arrangements that depend heavily on foreign auxiliaries with differing battle tactics (i.e., Rome), because neither group are paid mercenaries and the two groups have worked together long enough that there is a level of mutual trust. The issue is that Eldar like to be led by Eldar and humans like to be led by humans, so you have a joint autarch-captain leadership, which can lead to problems if the two don’t get along (despite the two receiving orders as a unit).

At the regimental level, the Imperium attempted to integrate the Tau into this strategy, but it turned into a cluster-fuck because the Tau are a combined arms force already and there were issues integrating with the typical infantry. Tau divisions tend to be Tau-only, and are often used as curveballs to beat opponents who expect the usual tactics. Keep in mind that virtually all of the races that joined the Tau in vanilla ended up under the banner of the less-extermination happy Imperium instead.

Aside from that, there has been no discussion as to what the higher-up leadership is like for the Imperial Army, or how tanks and artillery fit into the mix. All that was mentioned is that artillery barrages are usually fired first to avoid hitting the Eldar, or else the Eldar are given the signal to fall back ahead of time.

>>51029644
>>51029745 (addendum)

It was also mentioned that the groups that have non-standard ways of fighting, like aspect warriors, Kriegers, Catachans, etc., tend to have their own units.

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BUMP

>>51023342
>>51024766

So, the impression I'm getting from this is NB isn't interested in being worshipped/feared insomuch as the power he'd get from doing so. Kind of like how Palpatine didn't really care about ruling the Galactic Empire as opposed to the power he'd get from being able to do so.

I like NB's agenda as a weird mirror to VDs on the nature of how an immortal being who truly understands that fact thinks. VD doesn't mind sitting and chatting with its self-proclaimed jailors as it knows it can just play the long game and wait for its prison to rust before it does. NB doesn't mind wiping out all life in the galaxy simply because he doesn't mind waiting a few million years if he gets the galaxy all to himself.

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>>51028120
The Imperial Infantry Command Structure

Due to the fact the Imperial Guard does not enforce specific organization for anything below battalion level, the vast different cultures and traditions that exist in the Imperium changes the size of the smaller units as they see fit. Terra did set minimum sizes on how large units must be before it could be recognized as said self-declared units by the wider Imperial Guard.

The lowest level of the Imperial Guard is the squad size. Guardsmen often operate in pairs for specialized tasks to keep confusion as low as possible between other in the same squad. The smallest recognized size for these squads is 10 soldiers per squad further broken into 5 pairs, although a command squad might only have 6 men. At least 4 squads form into a platoon with one of the squads being a command squad bringing the total amount of men in platoon to at least 36 Guardsmen. Examples like the Kriegers use 7 squads in a platoon bring their size to 76 Guardsmen.

Eldar squads attached to Guardsman platoons come in the smallest size of 5 Eldar per squad but their size can be bigger depending on their world of origin. Notably the Maiden world Eldar tends to be organized into larger sizes as they experience more attacks on their homes compared to the Craftworlds.

For the platoons to form into a company there must be at least 4 platoons with a company command squad, thus bringing the number to at least 150 men. The Cadian Shock Troops often deploy around 300 per company. The Kriegers use 10 platoons per company then adding the Company HQ with at least 1 Grenadier squad totaling in at least 704 Guardsmen, not counting transports which they are often deployed with.

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>>51032998 (cont.)
The smallest size battalion uses at least 2 companies and battalion HQ before being deployed, bringing the numbers to 306 Guardsmen per battalion. The expected regiment holds at least 3 battalions and 1 support platoon which have 7 squads and 1 HQ totaling to 1.000 men. More often than not regiments like the Vostroyans use 3 infantry battalions and 2 standardized* support battalions coming up to 1.536 men. The Krieger regiments far pass these expectations by using 4 standardized support battalions and 6 infantry battalions jumping their numbers to 14.146 men including the regimental HQ.
*Organized not by 7 squad and HQ but like the infantry 3 squad with 1 HQ*

The Corps used to garrison a world often use the smallest size with only 5 regiments totaling to at least 5.000 Guardsmen and these troops are used to raise PDF than to actually keep the peace. If there are still insurgents who disrupt the peace and not accept the Imperial Truth, these garrison corps can double or triple in regiments. This puts the tripled Corp to at least a small 15.000 to a gigantic 200.000 Guardsmen. The PDF used to aid the garrison Corp would be raised to around a low 400.000 and up to millions at a time like on hive worlds.

On the more peaceful systems the lax Guardsmen army deployed to ‘guard’ the place would only be using the tinniest size, thus only have 20.000 at any one time if a majority of it on reserve. At the more active systems the numbers would go up to around 40.000 to 60.000 troops in garrisoning systems not too far from a front. When the Imperial Guard does deploy an army to the frontline the commanders always request at least 100.000 for the more daring but normally uses 180.000 if they are luck.

>>51032998
>"Recaf"

So I take it in the world of 40K. It's illegal for me to call Recaf its proper or actual name; Coffee.

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>>51033029 (cont.)
The level above the armies is the Crusader/Sectorial Army Group which would have if it was almost totally demobilized, only with just 2 frontline armies comes to 360.000 men. This had been the case when a small Crusader Army Group was launched using just 2 frontline armies to retake Sarum just after the Imperial Civil War. At the end of the Sarum War, the original Crusader Army Group was totally destroyed in the first attacks on the actual planet. The overreliance on Space Marines in an overwhelmingly mortal force taught Imperial tacticians to use a combination of superior firepower or outnumbering to take objectives. In M.40 the modern versions use around 1.000.000 for a small Crusader Army Group and can grow to a large 1.000.000.000 Guardsmen. The typical Segmentum Pacificus Sectorial Army Group has at the least active of all Segmentums with only around 3.000.000.000 men just before Vandire was crowned.

The lowest estimates of the Sectorial Army Groups during M.40 in each Segmentum are as follows:

Segmentum Solar 5.000.000.000(+ 2.000.000.000)*

Segmentum Pacificus 3.000.000.000(+ 1.000.000.000)*

Segmentum Obscurus 7.000.000.000(+ 3.000.000.000)*

Segmentum Tempestus 5.000.000.000(+ 2.000.000.000)*

Ultima Segmentum 12.000.000.000(+ 5.000.000.000)*
*Approximate additional troops unaccounted for*

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>>51033057
>coffee
Maybe if you were from some backward undeveloped feudal world where you can't get re-caffeinated coffee, sure you can call it coffee. Until then, I'll be enjoying my recaf. *tips commissar cap*

>>51033065
I'm copying all this to the 1d4chan page when I get home. its awesome.

>>51033029
>totaling to 1.000 men
People don't realize how hard it is trying to get the minimum regiment size to exactly 1,000. Even had to throw in that non standardized size support platoon to fudge the numbers instead of falling short by 76.

>>51032998
>>51033029
>>51033065
>>51034664
Pretty well thought out overall, but I have a critique of the overall numbers. I think most people don't quite grasp how fuckhueg a galaxy is (and this includes a lot of established sci-fi writers, so this isn't a personal attack or anything), so while your total numbers in the billions seem high, it's estimated that the total number of soldiers that served in WWII alone may have numbered in the hundreds of millions. So, using some canon numbers, let's do some quick and dirty revised math.

From the wiki, we know that there are about 32,000 Hive Worlds alone in the Imperium, each with 5-20 hives and each hive housing about 10 to 100 billion people. We'll go for a conservative estimate and use the low end numbers, so this means each Hive World has about 50 billion people. 50,000,000,000 people x 32,000 hive worlds = 1,600,000,000,000,000 people from hive worlds alone (1.6 quadrillion), ignoring all the other 968,000 planets of the million worlds of the Imperium.

Using the US military as a proxy, the US currently has about 1.5 million active soldiers, and this is about .5% of the population. So for the Imperium, .005 x 1.6 quadrillion = 8,000,000,000,000 (8 trillion) active soldiers (the Imperial Guard), so your original numbers are low by at least 2 orders of magnitude. This is also an extremely low estimate using only Hive Worlds and the lowest numbers of each range, and ignores reserve soldiers (PDF soldiers) as well, and the proportion of the population in arms would probably jump in times of crisis (since the US military is an all volunteer force). So needless to say, there are a lot of grunts in the Imperium.

Hopefully this wasn't too spergy and helps the discussion around the fluff that's being written.

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Anyone knows of any canon reading material that describes the Baghesi (Barghesi) in greater detail other than "Hyper-violent"?

Help would be much appreciated

>>51035961
Oh man that reminds me of things that are essentially "canon" in this fanon AU:

>through sheer badassery and determination, human soldiers and eldar waltzed into Nurgle's realm, gave him the finger, rescued Ish

>Ishy is married to mister Big-E

>waifuisms and husbandoing with pointy eared bishies is legal

>there is a human woman who prayed to Ish to be as pretty and sexy as her and said human woman's wishes are granted

>the human woman who prayed to Ishy becomes a glorified courtesan who boinks with any worthy human men who's children she'll bear, plus eldar dudes including Eldrad want to go out on a "date" with her

>Love Can Bloom is an official thing in this AU

>So is Lofn

>that >>51035961 happened

>there are butthurt human and eldar separatist terrorists and or rebels who are against the Human-Eldar alliance and pretty much do the good old fashion terrorist-jihad stuff against people and officials who support the alliance

>the eldar separatists are jealous at the human woman who got the blessing of their goddess and have targeted her as someone who should be killed

>even the human separatist rebels hate her and also attempted to assassinate her too

>As mentioned about Love Can Bloom and Lofn being a thing; Lofn, despite her young age, is implied to already have a seat in political power where she works as an ambassador poster girl, even though she's still adolescent

>even Lofn is targeted by those mean rebel-separatists and there have been assassination attempts against Lofn, fortunately they all failed

>Reri Hesperax; a fan-made child between queen Lily and a generic human lover is also a thing apparently

>there has been a call of duty-style No Russian that has happened which was initiated by either the human or eldar separatists

>Void Dragon isn't a lazy bum and has been doing shit

>Ciaphas Cain; GREATEST HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, is NOT a commissar nor a GREAT WAR HERO in this AU and instead works a cozy and cushy bureaucratic desk job.

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>>51035127
So you mean to tell me the Imperium actually no fucking clue how HUGE their population or military is and is just saying big numbers because they stop keeping track of the numbers since the ending of the Grate Crusade. I know I can't give an accurate estimate on how big the IG is and Terra totally lost track by M.40 so they are just saying the minimum amount of Guardsmen in the galaxy at any one point if the Imperium almost completely disbanded their military. There should be hundreds of trillions of troops if the IG was 100% volunteers in peace times. That number would jump to quadrillions during war then to hundreds of quadrillions once conscription is introduced. The lowest estimates means if all IG regiments were 100% volunteers that were self-sustainable and receive no off world supplies, even than the numbers vastly underestimate by a factor of 10.

>>51036321
Weren't you here last thread?

Lofn isn't even born yet. It's kind of hard for a fetus to hold any political power.

I'm not even sure if Riri is canon. If she is, its as a genetically engineered abomination.

Yeah, humanity and Eldar performed a smash-and-grab to rescue Isha, but that's kind of the idea that got this all rolling. It's also the reason why Chaos hates the Imperium in particular so much, Nurgle in particular must be really pissed off.

IIRC, Eldrad isn't trying to waifu Jubbowski, its more part of his dickery than anything else.

I'm not entirely sure you understand this is a Nobledark AU. If it was completely impossible to win (as opposed to very, very difficult), if the Imperium was just as xenophobic as in canon, if the actions of individuals meant nothing despite the sheer amount of shit coming down, then you'd just have another grimdark timeline.

>>51020229
No, Baneblades are superheavy tanks, they are however, based off a medium tank built in the DAoT. So, the Baneblade is Superheavy and the Leman Russ is the MBT. Get your facts right before you spray them

>>51039485
The Imperium does have cathedral size tanks that dwarfs Baneblades and can level cities so under normal categorizations sure its a super heavy tank. This is not factoring in super heavy SPGs that are often twice or thrice the size of the biggest Baneblades.

You're missing Sister Jubblowski's importance to the partnership of human and eldar. She is living proof that humanity are children of the gods by adoption

Her efforts to maintain stability and continuity to.the rulers of the Imperium are not insubstantial. She is a trickle of fresh genes into the upper echelons of high society as a little over 200 interstellar level politicians are her offspring, each raised by loyal Sisters to serve rather than rule the Imperium.

Her direct contributions to the Eternal War effort are also not to be sneered at. So long as she is pregnant she receives prophetic dreams due to her closeness to Isha. Predictions that have served the Imperium well. Also the "morale posters" and calendars.

Also Cain's job is neither cozy or cushy. Bail-tan has a permanent conquest boner and a lot of his job is convincing them not to drag the Imperium into fights it would be hard pressed to win.

Also it doesn't help that his daughter is a prominent member of the local Word Bearers and she won't slow down on the warpath.

Also Lofn isn't born yet. As of 999M40 Colonel-Farseer Taldeer is in the final month of her pregnancy.

>>51039129
>IIRC, Eldrad isn't trying to waifu Jubbowski, its more part of his dickery than anything else.

It's not just that it will annoy and make billions of humans hyper-jelly. It's also partly so he can tell prominent politicians that he fucked their mother and mean it. Also he does find her good looking. Most of the other eldar high ups just want her as arm candy due to her status as a living religious icon.

>>51040666
>so he can tell prominent politicians that he fucked their mother and mean it
Fucking kek, trips confirm

>>51041016
How many embarrassed descendants in high places would it take to successfully petition Sister Jubblowski to stop being a courtesan? I'm imagining a vast council of imperial aristocrats convening at some point in M41 and deciding in unison that great-great-great-grandma should really settle down.

>>51040666
>hyper jelly humans
I absolutely love how dickish Eldrad is just because he wants to be dickish.

>>51041377
Never going to happen.

She's been the most sought after woman in the Imperium for centuries. She's over 400 years old and has had over 200 children. She's survived her first 19 years of life in the Cadian Regiments, a stint in the commissairiant, numerous assassinations and Lukas the Trickster. She's a Sister of the Adeptus Sororits, an old veteran soldier, blessed of a goddess and considered a prophet in several fringe religions. Billions would die for her, they would certainly kill for her.

She isn't going to listen to a bunch of children embarrassed that she is more successful and has served the Imperium better than she has. Especially not when she's their mum.

>>51040666
>so he can tell prominent politicians that he fucked their mother and mean it
Thanks, Satan

>>51040194
>She is a trickle of fresh genes into the upper echelons of high society

Waitaminute, there might be a bit of a problem with that. Having new blood included to reduce inbreeding works, but it doesn't work if the same person is constantly cropping up numerous time in someone's family tree.

How old is Jubbowski anyway? It's been mentioned she's been given juvenant drugs and the most expensive age-restorants the Imperium has available because a constant source of prophecies is a very useful thing. But assuming her children's pregancies are not hyper-compressed in any way, that makes her at least 150 years old. That's assuming she was pregnant every iota of that time, and not counting those children who did not end up as politicians.

>Also it doesn't help that his daughter is a prominent member of the local Word Bearers and she won't slow down on the warpath.
Wait, what? I get that she's a religious fanatic and is basically as warpathy as a vanilla Black Templar, but I don't think she was supposed to be a member of the Word Bearers as that is a Space Marine chapter.

>>51041673
In a previous thread it was mentioned that she was ~400 but with a physical age of late twenties at most.

She has a magi of the Adeptus Biologicus in her service at all times whose job it is to keep Sister Jubblowski in optimum health at all times. Exercise regimes, dietary advice and the like all provided by the Inquisition along with the high end rejuvenant treatments. The magi is also an experienced midwife. In exchange she spends about two hours every mourning meditating and writing down the shit she dreamed about the previous night.

It was decided by the magi that Jubblowski shouldn't have a child more than once ever two years so as not to over tax her body. The Inquisition is always hungry for fresh prophesies but not to the point where they want to risk killing their prophetess. She has had a little over 200 children because of the occasional multiple birth.

Given the breadth of the Imperium and the thousands of royal families, even on the interstellar level, it is highly unlikely that even her great, great, grand children will ever "mingle" even considering the artificially limited nature of the closed gene-pool of high society. She is only one woman and the sisterhood to which she belongs now has many Venerated Mothers although she is the most prominent.

Sister-Superior (later Abbess) Miriana Cain was raised on a planet originally conquered by Chaplain-Primarch Lorgar and Katholian to the marrow. With no hard distinction between the Imperial Army and the Space Marines it is often the case that many space marines deffer to the expertise of baseline humans. She is their commanding officer in the parallel secular military hierarchy as well as in their church. She is no end of trouble for Ambassador Cain because she keeps whipping up the war boners of the eldar.

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>>51038664
We once did calculations based on estimated population densities of hive worlds and the estimated 1,000 hive worlds in the Imperium.

I can't for shit remember the exact maths and I'm too drunk and lazy at the moment to google it in anything more than the cursory manner that I just attempted but I distinctly remember us arguing about how far it was in the double digit quadrillions.

Just for the Hives.

I don't think that you can take Forgeworlds into consideration due to them not being part of the Imperium proper, less so in this AU.

In Greater Good by Sandy Mitchel (one of Cain books) it gives the population of a Forgeworld at twenty something billion although to me that always seemed a bit on the low side. It could be Sandy playing loose and fast with the lore (probable) or it might not be only counting artisan and lay-technicians as the lowest rank of person and most of the grunt work done by non-person servitors.

Either way that book gave the impression of it being a minor Forgeworld in so much as a Forgeworld can be considered minor.

Then we take into account all the Civilized worlds not uncomperable to our own. Lets say anywhere between the 2 and 10 billion mark each.

Shrineworlds could be absolutely fucking anything to one ten man hab dome on an airless rock to bustling hive so fuck knows how you measure up that.

The the low population worlds like the Agriworlds and Deathworlds and the throwback worlds have small populations but combined they would be a fair few billion/low trillion between them.

Add all this together and the Imperium is probably comfortably in the triple digit quadrillion or at the very, very least high double digit. Not counting servitors. Also in this universe the Imperial Census will contain all the reasonable xenos.

If the combined might of the Imperial Army came to 10 quadrillion men, women and children it would not be unreasonable.

And that's without the Imperium instituting mass conscription due to Black Crusade.

>>51038450
I thought this was harmless fanart. But I looked closely into the image and filename... and my god I have stared into the abyss.

>>51043829
Why thank you for making me check it out and have a similar reaction...

>>51043829
Why? Why would you do that?

At first I just looked at it and though;

>Yup. That's and eldar. Fondness for bright colours, robes, runes, spear and psychic/magic powers on display.

Then the file name. Now I feels sick.

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So what’s up with the Q’orl in this timeline? Since the Imperium isn’t a zealot-filled xenophobic theocracy, does this mean the Q’orl also get a similar sanity boost so they aren’t a zealot-filled xenophobic theocracy? Or do the Q’orl stay the same, and the forces of the greater Imperium have to deal with the fact that this is one technologically-advanced Xenos race that they just can’t negotiate with?

If it's the latter, I can see the Q'orl-Imperium conflict as being one of those minor to moderate scale wars the Imperium seems to get into every so often, ending with the Imperium punching the Q'orl in the nose and telling them to stay in the corner. If it’s the former, I can see the Imperium earmarking certain worlds as “Swarm Worlds” when the Q’orl petition to expand, since the Q'orl can only really communicate to psykers among the rest of the Imperium's populace. I would imagine the Imperium would need specially trained psyker translators in either case if a Q'orl colony wanted to trade or if the Imperium has to talk to the Q'orl.

I'm kind of finding the idea of the Imperium not being able to negotiate with the Q'orl more appealing, not on the grounds that the translation barrier is too vast, but as an example that some species are just too unreasonable to play ball with the rest of the Imperium. On the other hand, the Q'orl have more characterization than most of the minor Xenos races in the Imperium (e.g., Demiurge), and in vanilla they were more open to help than the Imperium was (i.e., they accepted help from the freakin' Eldar).

>>51044178
I would say that they are provincially on the Shit Kicking List.

They are still a bunch of xenophobic zealots but the Imperium is willing to meet them half way this time and not prod them unnecessarily. They have been offered preliminary deals with the long term intention of bringing them into the fold of true civilization in time.

They have refused.

Unless the Matriarchy of Queens is running the show then they refuse. They are the Master Race and although other peoples have their uses, they would begrudgingly accept, they are not true people. They are trained animals.

Only the Q’orl are may rule Q’orl.

The Imperium leaves them. The Emperor is taking the same view of them as he did Hy Brasil in ancient history. He is an immortal, he can play the waiting game. The offer is always open to them, they are the only ones standing in their own way and eventually they will realize their folly. In time. All things in time.

Every so often one of the Queens will dream of dreams once had by all conquerors but Alexander the Great never had Emperor Oscar to contend with. They once managed to hold dominance over a multi-sector empire whilst the Imperium was busy fighting Da Bug Boyz of the Octavius Desolation. It fell when the Imperium brought back the pain train.

They are willing to pitch in when Chaos, Nids or some big fucking Orks come calling but that's mostly long term preservation instincts kicking in.

Or that's my take on them.

Assholes to the core and on the low end of the EVIL pool not a people you would turn your back on but not one of the Big Players either.

>>51044402
So, the Imperium and the Q'orl occasionally get in small-scale wars with each other (from the Imperium's perspective, from the Q'orl perspective it's a major campaign), but the Imperium doesn't completely bulldoze them because they're not a serious long-term threat like the Orks, and they are willing to pitch in when a Black Crusade or WAAAGH! comes knocking out of mutual interest. I like this interpretation.

>>51044402
>>51044716
So...basically the Vanilla stance on Tau?

>>51045055
Yup.

But approached from an entirely different direction for other reasons.

But in practice yes. It amounts to exactly the same.

>>51045213
Plus it seems there's s bit of "they'll wise up eventually" as opposed to "we'll pulverize them as soon as the resources are freed up. It sounds like the Q'orl, despite occupying a decent amount of space, are effectively quarantined.

>>51045055
Whereas the Tau and Tarellians were younger peoples that thought they were on even terms with the humans, because all they were ever exposed to were backwater worlds and minor hives. They saw the provincial reaches of the imperium they could observe and found a formidable opponent, and wouldn't believe stories of the capital/heartland. The Tarellians tried to dictate terms, pushed away the imperium, and even tried to posture as a threat, but then they met chaos (or something, can't remember) barely survived, and became an imperial protectorate. The Tau got the same problem some centuries down the line, but the imperium was more experienced and the tau had more external perils, so they joined the imperium faster, and instead of their society being shaken by defeat and induction it's being shaken by internal revolutions in ideology. The Tarellian example might even have been a key diplomatic point in working with the tau.

>>51046263
It's a dozen stars against hundreds of thousands. The imperium doesn't think the Q'orl smarting up means joining, it means the arrogant spiders might grasp that they're insignificant and outclassed.

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>>51039129
>Eldrad isn't trying to waifu Jubbowski, its more part of his dickery than anything else.
Oh, we know what kind of "dickery" he's trying to pull

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>>51046450
I think the Q'Orl Swarmhood is more than dozens of stars. It's said to be bigger than the Tau empire in Vanilla, and encompass about the same amount of space as the Eye of Terror.

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>>51033065
>Why are there so many ‘Cadian’ Regiments?

Most “Cadian” Regiments are in fact not from Cadia or even have a drop of Cadian blood in them. “So why name them Cadian?” I hear you say. The Cadians were one of the few who proved themselves in the Great Crusade as the most versatile and adaptable troops the Imperial Army can deploy on most fronts. The organizational structure and equipment used by the Cadians were introduced to many different worlds as the original Cadian regiments toured the modern Imperium and beyond in the Crusade Era. The 200 year expansion period saw diverse traditions of regiments being used all over the galaxy as newly integrated worlds threw their armed forces to join the Imperial Army, and be sent to the far-flung reaches of the Imperium. The War of the Beast saw almost all Cadian regiments be recalled to the defense of Cadia or Terra if they were close enough. With the absence of many regiments from Ultima Segmentum and Segmentum Tempestus the worlds in these places were forced to raise totally new regiments from scratch for self-defense or as requisition to be deployed to the fronts.

Many of the Forge, Argi, and Feudal worlds used traditional local organization and equipment for planetary elite troops to form their own Guardsmen regiment at that time. Imperial, Hive and Fortress worlds on the other hand, saw the effectiveness in Cadian regiments as they fought against or with the Cadians during the Great Crusade. The industrial capability to manufacture standard Cadian equipment was already present on many Imperial worlds, but the Forge worlds refused to form Cadian regiments as these worlds dismiss the lack of artillery and armored vehicles and rather form the Skitarii armies. Argi and Feudal worlds lack the industry to produce and equip a Cadian regiment.

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>>51048373 (cont.)
Fortress worlds would form Cadian regiments after seeing the Cadian stubborn defensiveness and still be able to organize effective counter-attacks which many of the local troops couldn’t do. Before the adoption of the Cadian regiments many Fortress worlds didn’t have the equipment or tactics to launch successful counter-offensive operations. The strategies on these Fortress worlds were to put all resources on the defense and once the enemy attacks failed would only offer a token resistance afterward in theory. Such a lack of different ideas and being steep in tradition brought a shocking doctrine when Fortress world officers first saw Cadians, defending like how these officers were taught while still being able to attack to dig out stubborn defenders.

Different Hive worlds adopted Cadian regiments when they realized the efficient organizational aspect and easily supplied troops after a few battles. These Cadian regiments held 4.000 men which were large enough to pose a small planetary threat while still small enough to manage effectively. The old regiments on Hive worlds before the Imperium did have up to 10.000 men and were a nightmare to control with supplying such a force an even bigger nightmare. Regimental commanders with 10.000 men simply lost track of where most companies were with battalions being almost impossible to organize for operations. Such large regiments would sustain losses up to 40 or 60% before higher command took notice, by then these regiments were combat ineffective and be forced to merge with another underman regiment. Merging these large regiment led to organizational and logistical problems preventing the merged regiments from being operational for weeks or months.

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>>51048415 (cont.)
The adoption of Cadian regiments on so many different worlds shows the versatility and efficiency of the Cadian doctrine. After the War of the Beast, the original Cadian regiments would be sent to refortify the Cadian Gate. Many of the displaced Cadian civilian people would be reorganized to colonist groups leaving their homeworld. The same adaptable traditions carried over to colonize and frontier worlds when they raised their own Cadian regiments.

>How are these regiments normally named?

Cadian infantry regiments from Cadia are known as “Cadian Shock Troops” while off world or imitation regiments are known as “Cadian Foot Troops.” These Cadian Shock Troops would often have at least two detachments from other branches of the Imperial Guard, for example the 203rd Cadian Shock Troop has self-propelled heavy artillery and armored detachments. The Cadian Foot Troops often don’t follow this rule and only deploy with one detachment.

>What is in a Cadian infantry squad?

In a Cadian infantry regiment, a squad is made of 10 people that operate in 5 pairs. The Sergeant keeps up moral and plans out tactics with the Lieutenant who can operate as a vox-caster; they can also be equipped with melee weapons. The heavy weapon team is included to allow long range suppressive fire on the battlefield usually with a heavy stubber. The Medic works to keep the soldiers in fighting condition with the help of their underling that tags along into battles. The rest of the squad is made up of two pairs of weapon specialists normally being Lasgunners.

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>>51048481 (cont.)
The Sargent is equipped with a chainsword and las-pistol for leading charges or CQC. Alternatively the Sargent can be armed like the Lieutenant who is given a las-carbine for self-defense. The heavy weapon team normally uses an offensive heavy stubber that fires 12.7mm rounds or a lighter defensive stubber firing 7.92 rounds. In the heavy weapons team the first member carries and fire the weapon while the other member feeds ammo, spots targets, guards the gunner, and act as a makeshift bipod. Both members are also equipped with a Lasgun and a las-pistol. The medic fights with a Lasgun and heals with the medikit which comes with medical drugs, chemicals, surgical tools, sedatives, injectors, bandages and a medical cogitator which can detect almost every known aliments. To help the Medic is the underling who carries extra supplies, guard the Medic, or help in surgery depending on the conditions. The weapon specialists mostly carry Lasguns although one or two of the four might have flamers instead. These specialists can really be armed with any weapon that can be held by two regular human arms, some can also serve the dual role of vox-caster as well. The specialist act as either a flanking force while the heavy weapon team suppressed the enemy or the center line that lay down fire.

>>51048520
Neat. That's a really good explanation

>>51048373
>>51048415
>>51048481
>>51048520

I like this. This is good.

>>51047890
Cox be about 200. That makes them bigger than the Tau Empire in terms of worlds but still a "local" threat for a given value of local.

>>51043932
>>51043994
...Well on the bright side, that image has some accuracy. Twilight Sparkle would indeed be an Eldar farseer... But good God if only that art was just Twilight as some human with pointy ears and space elf fashion!

>>51035961
What's the video featured there about?

>>51036321
>there has been a call of duty-style No Russian that has happened which was initiated by either the human or eldar separatists

Seriously? Would that be an actual thing for this AU? I haven't been around this thread for weeks, someone mind explaining this to me whether it'd happen or not?

>>51051554
Human and Eldar separatism should explode after the Imperial Civil War due to a major event but we aren't settaled on what though. No Russian type event wouldn't work as humans and Eldar can easily recognize each other.

Wow Isha is OOC as fuck in this. As in, literally, it just seems like someone thought it'd be hot to have Eldar women for Imperium characters to fuck cause the Eldar barely seem to resemble 40k Eldar at all.

>>51052791
it's a good thing this is an AU isn't it

if you want grimderp BL retardation don't come here trolling something clearly called NOBLEDARK 40k.

Read the wiki, troll

>>51052812
I didn't know NOBLEDARK meant humanity my OOC do not steal.

Honestly if all you wanted was an Imperium with everyone as a sideshow just make an AU where you don't got anyone other than the Imperium. Cause the Eldar aren't recognizable in this. And Isha literally acts contrary to the only character traits she's ever had.

>>51052937
Can you actually point to what is OOC and getting you so buttblasted? As far as I know, Isha has 0 characterization in canon. If your gripe is that the Eldar aren't antagonistic enough, they still are arrogant and all, but the entire point of this AU is that people are rational and decent enough to work together.

As for humanity taking center stage, that's merely a function of what writefaggotry has been done. In an ideal world we'd have lush detail and backstory for every little aspect, but that probably isn't going to happen. You're also missing the fact that the Eldar are PART of the Imperium and arguably wield outsize influence given their tiny numbers.

And yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the waifuing, but if it keeps people engaged in the thread then *shrug*

>>51052937
To cut the crap short dude don't bother. Of course the setting's gonna be just a rehash of Primarch and Emperor characters doing everything cause that's what 40k AU's are about. Check any 40k AU, they're pretty much always going to be cause a bunch of fans looked at 40k and said 'but what if the Imperium was even more important?' then it already was.

So don't start needless complaining and just stop.

>>51053044
Rational here seems to be code for everyone does what the Imperium says and no hegemon other than the Imperium's is allowed.

Why are the Eldar, considering their much better circumstances, not creating their own hegemon anew?

The setting largely seems to exist to create a situation in which Humans (and Eldrad) are in charge of everything and other factions just get an occasional cameo of subservience of defeat to a Primarch or Human.

As for OC moments...I mean really, the idea of Isha marrying the Emperor or the puerile need to have Leman Russ defeat a Seer Council in a drinking contest smack of infantile desires to have some imaginary dick measuring contest which humans always win.

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>>51053170
>The setting largely seems to exist to create a situation in which Humans (and Eldrad) are in charge of everything and other factions just get an occasional cameo of subservience of defeat to a Primarch or Human.
>Eldar joined because the Imperium rescued Isha and an AVATAR of her engaged in a POLITICAL MARRIAGE to the Emperor, and even then it's only to whoever happens to be the Emperor at the time
>Many Eldar see the Imperium as the new Eldar Empire, which happens to contain humans
>Other xenos joined based purely on their own choices, not one was forced to join
>Hell, as long as they didn't fuck with the Imperium it couldn't give less of a fuck what they did
>The only reason Tau joined was because they suffered the Downfall of Humanity 2 Electric Boogaloo: Tau Edition
Did you even read the previous threads before spewing your shit all over the place m8?
>pic related, it's anon

>>51051543
>whats the video feautred

Its this as the supposed BGM:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiUYFZXy_zc

>>51052937
>>51053170
Anon does kinda have a point, at least in terms of tone. This is rapidly turning into the Imperium of HFY - most of the WotB writefaggotry (and a lot of the other stuff, too), should still be losing battles; just not pants-on-head retarded losses like Vanilla. Like, the one where a naval fleet got blasted into oblivion but the world was saved because suddenly DAs? Okay, that's pretty much the opposite of what would be expected from a meagre force against the biggest waaaaagh ever!!!1!11, noble or not.

Eldar *are* kinda ooc, but nowhere near as much as the IoM is; and I'm pretty sure croneworls eldar have gotten more love from other writefagss here THAN GW themselves.

>>51053062 on the other hand clearly hasn't read a fucking word of the recent threads, and doesn't know how this shit works in general. Of course the lore is pretty IoM heavy, because that was our starting point, and Emps & the Primarchs are all low-hanging fruit that can be messed around with relatively easily. T'au and Eldar stories have only started coming in after we got a solid world built.

>>51055686
More writing on the non-human factions, either members of the Imperium like Eldar or foes like Chaos, 'Nids, and Necrons would be nice. Unfortunately I don't know enough about some of them to contribute.

Orks would probably be the biggest chunk to tackle next. We know the majority of them are allied with Chaos (like the Warhammer Chaos Dwarfs), but beyond that we have nothing.

I didn't even know Crone World Eldar even existed before reading this.

But yes, the human-related factions almost always tend to come up first in these kinds of things simply because they're the easiest.

I agree that the WotB should be a lot more losses relative to wins. They managed to march on Earth for goodness sake. But how do we write it to make it interesting? Descriptions of "the Beast showed up on planet Examplor IX and crushed it to dust" are pretty boring unless something interesting happens either on the Orks/Chaos side or Orks side.

Also, one question we need to ask is how much loss can the Imperium take and still survive. If the Imperium loses too often but still manages to survive the war, then Chaos can just come around again with another Black Crusade and steamroll them.

>>51056033
Derp, I meant to say Orks/Chaos side or Imperium's side

>>51056033
>Eldar
Have been getting some, but mostly about their relations with the IoM. Agree that they need more of their own.

>Chaos
Mostly made up of Croneldar, Lost and Damned (human and other minor races), and Daemons (in that order). CSMs are incredibly rare since only one legion had a major proportion of defectors, so the Chaos gods give them all the shiny toys. More on croneworlders below.

>'Nids
Are making galaxyfall by M41. Are truly a wildcard, an unknown factor - unlike Vanilla's YEAH WELL CHAOS SOMETHING INFINITE DIMENSIONS SOMETHING ALWAYS WIN counter, nobody saw them coming for real this time, and the blueberries) are shitting their shiny metal pants. As are everyone else.Is my love for them showing?

>Necrons
Not much here - they too were offered the banner of "promise not to murder each other TOO much" by Oscar, and they agreed. Until the Silent King(?) asked for a..."small contribution" of Imperial citizens to "assist" in their attempts to return to flesh.
Necrons have since been added to shoot-on-sight list.

>Orks
eegh, as far as I know the Orks aren't so much allied with Chaos as manipulated by them. The Gods and Croneldar gave the Beast a turbo-boost, but they didn't start him off; I'm personally hc'ing that a sizable fraction of Orks (but not a majority, since so many were lost in WotB) are being unwittingly steered by Chaos, and those who *are* aware of it relish the extra fighting.

>Crone World Eldar
They /should/ be the biggest players of Chaos, although we still haven't negotiated how the Gods see them. They worship Slaanesh as the old Eldar pantheon condensed into one; either he doesn't thirst for their souls or they don't care. If the latter, then Eldar may seek to serve other Chaos Gods as protection; if the former, they'd do it because they want to. As for big names, we don't have much - the only named chara we have for chaos eldar is Lady Malys, who's effectively anti-Vect (but also his wife, go figure).

(cont)

>>51056033
>>51056775
>How much loss can the Imperium take and still survive

Well, the WotB was a long time ago, and lessons have been learned. Also, the IoM has some new friends, and /isn't/ actively ripping apart its own citizens in literal witch hunts this time. Or at least doing it a lot less.

>WotB writing tone
Well, Examplor IX doesn't get crushed to dust - at least not as easily as that. This is Nobledark, after all. Examplor IX isn't just a statistic or a speck on a starchart, it's an Alamo, it's a Thermopylae. Sure, some of them might turn out alright, but the Beast DOES get to Earth. Hell, off the top of my head there are plenty of ways to think of nobledark losses:

>Examplor IX puts up a spirited defence, but constant war drains morale and Chaos corruption spreads, eating the garrison from the inside out (literally? maybe literally?) just before the cavalry arrive.
>Examplor IX make the Orks pay for every inch of ground they gain, and even start looking like they're pushing the WAAAAAGH! off their planet - then the Forge World of Examplor V gets overrun and supply chain crumples, as do their defences.
>After a long, hard battle, the Orks have been driven off, but it turns out that it was only a light vanguard of a fleet that blocks out half the sky.
>Chaos lands on the world along with the Orks, but doesn't hit the defenders, instead making a beeline for some ancient xenos ruins. The few surviving Imperial forces are unable to stop them, so they call in an Exterminatus on their world to stop whatever it is that they're planning.
>Guard call for assistance; Deus Ex Astartes come to save them. As soon as they begin to make planetfall, Dark/Croneldar ships catch them by surprise and cut them to pieces; the remaining SMs fight alongside the Guard and refuse to yield a single inch of ground.

Losses are boring, but glorious losses aren't. Battle of Macragge is good for that stuff - hell, things like the Halo novels can be, too.

>>51056955
*Catch their ships by surprise, even

>>51056775
Silent King asked for over a trillion test subjects at regular intervals and then acted condescending and smug and told Emperor Oscar that he would permitted to choose which subjects.

Needless to say the Emperor lost his shit.

Also Slaaneshii Eldar might see their patron as the many-as-one. The others might not.

Lady Malys, Deamon-Queen of all Chaos, is the one "mortal" screwed up enough for the gods to consider a player in the Great Game rather than just another piece.

>>51056955
The Halo novels are fucking depressing, especially the ones that take place before or during the war. Like the ones about the formation of the SPARTANs. You read about this group of kids becoming utter badasses soloing an Inni outpost, then you realize that they're only like 14-16 years old and they just killed a bunch of people with the same attitude as I would have pulling weeds. The worst part is that almost all of them die in the war doing the same thing, giving a valiant last stand against impossible odds to buy as much time as they could so that maybe someone could give humanity a bit more of an edge to win.

>>51056033
I was thinking of writing what happened to Cronefleet L'Oquis after the WotB as they would serve as the nemesis to Battlefleet Gothic. There was an allusion to the NotBadab!Sarum War where there was at least 360.000 Imperial casualties within the first attacks on Sarum itself.

>>51056955
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at. Spirited losses like Alamo or Thermopylae are good. Total losses that show off some neat aspect of the attackers are good. Bulldozing some agri-world isn't.

>unlike Vanilla's YEAH WELL CHAOS SOMETHING INFINITE DIMENSIONS SOMETHING ALWAYS WIN counter

This is what I like about this timeline. Chaos doesn't hold all the cards. The tyranids could eat everything, blot out the Warp, and starve the gods. The Necrons could slice their way through any resistance and activate the Cadian pillars. The Imperium dies either way, but it's not like a guaranteed Chaos victory anymore. That's one of the reasons why although I agree Chaos needs more love, I worry about the possible Chaos-wanking. Chaos should be feared, but for actually doing things, not just letting Warp influence do the entire job for them.

>they too were offered the banner of "promise not to murder each other TOO much" by Oscar, and they agreed. Until the Silent King(?) asked for a..."small contribution" of Imperial citizens to "assist" in their attempts to return to flesh. Necrons have since been added to shoot-on-sight list.

IIRC, it was the more eccentric Necron lords that the Imperium offered protection to (like, 0.2% of all tomb worlds). The Silent King is not a nice guy in this timeline, and he controls the majority of Necrons in a weird manner that is half slavish obedience and half mind control. The Necrons in this timeline are a nice combination of 3rd editions murderous killbots and 4th and onwards Tomb Kings in space, in that they are murderous killbots but the higher-ups have more personality than point and shoot.

>>51057271
Exactly. That's why their themes fit so damn well, why they're so Nobledark in tone. The Spartan IIIs that crippled the Covenant but we're wiped out to a man, the militia in Contact Harvest that got steamrollered just buying time for evacuations, the dug-in fortifications of Reach that actually gave the Covenant a bloody nose before getting Bigger Fish'd into a bloody paste. This is what we're after.

>>51057389
>possible chaos-wanking
Since the majority of Chaos forces are Croneldar instead of CSMs, we (hopefully) should swap the power level bullshitting for infinite keikakus. That being said, I still have no idea how black crusades would work for a force that's so glass-dagger

>>51056955
>Deus Ex Astartes
Laughed, then I didn't because it's true.

>>51057389
>Necrons could activate the cadian pillars
What'd that do? I thought they were just holding the EoT at bay?

>>51056775
>CSMs are incredibly rare since only one legion had a major proportion of defectors, so the Chaos gods give them all the shiny toys.

The Dark Angels were also the largest legion by far, due to the Emperor sending them out as an advance force to figure out where to go first. So when two-thirds of the Dark Angels fell, it was almost like two whole legions turned.

If we need more CSM to give Chaos more muscle, I had a couple of ideas. One might be the Chaos Gods were cultivating sleeper cells in all the legions, and when the WotB happened most of them switched sides. Many were killed, but others managed to damage their own legions or outright escape to the Warp with the Fallen.

That might be a good defeat for the Imperium during the WotB. Planet holds out under siege until it hears word that Space Marines are coming. Space Marines turn out to be traitors and planet is wrecked.

Another idea is the Badab War. Huron requests supplies to fortify the Maelstrom, Imperium is dealing with a Black Crusade at the moment and responds "We're kind of stretched thin at the moment, we'll get to you as soon as we can." Huron takes this personally and sees the Imperium as abandoning his chapter, rather than saying "let me deal with these chucklefucks first". He decides to carve out his own empire in the Maelstrom, and unlike in canon the chapters that are in the Maelstrom (Lamenters and Mantis Warriors might be elsewhere) go along wholeheartedly.

In the aftermath of Black Crusade, Imperium doesn't realize anything is wrong until Badab starts raiding Imperial worlds for supplies and gene-seed candidates. Imperium brings the pain train, but Huron accepts the assistance of Chaos Gods making it much harder than expected. Imperium eventually wins, but traitor legions escape into Maelstrom at behest of Chaos Gods and Chaos creates a warp storm to prevent Imperium from following. Chaos gets at least three (maybe five *cough*) new chapters of CSM, and a competent mortal asset.

>>51057844
The Black Crusades probably relied on using Orks and Imperial renegades as meat-shields to absorb losses while keeping Crone Eldar with CSM act as the core damage dealers in battle. In terms of ships the Warp can provide HUGE amount of material to build fleets for the Croneworlds the problem is training and crew all those ships. While the amount of CSMs is tiny their fleet is actually relatively large as Herateks and innovative Forge worlds fall to Chaos due to Mechanicas persecution. The Cronefleet uses similar ship designs as Dark Eldar but BIGGER AND BADDER. The Chaos Spacefleet uses easily manufactured 30k Imperial ships and defected modern 40k ships in a small steady steam.

>>51057948
The Imperium thinks they hold back Chaos, which is sort of true, but that's not their primary function. They were built to act like a piledriver on the Immaterium, separating the Warp from realspace and basically killing everything with a soul (this includes 'nids, because the Hive Mind counts as a soul). So Necrons win.

Depending on the Silent King's personal goals (biotransferrence or just ruling), he either keeps this as is or waits until Chaos starves to death, then finds the first poor sapient race to arise to undo the biotransferrence.

>>51058110
It was mentioned previously that as of 999M41 the Silent King has successfully undone a biotransferance.

I'm going suggest it be using a Tau subject.

>>51056775
>They worship Slaanesh as the old Eldar pantheon condensed into one; either he doesn't thirst for their souls or they don't care.
Reposting my thoughts on slaaneshi eldar from a few threads back.
Continuing my thoughts on the slaaneshi condition, slaaneshi chaos eldar needing to stave of being eaten by feeding slaanesh other souls is already the dark eldar's thing, and the crone eldar already explicitly serve chaos. Since Slaanesh is weakened because he has to vie with Isha for eldar souls after death it would even make sense for the prince of pleasure to offer the sadistic but self preserving dark eldar a deal where they hunt for souls and deliver them and their feelings unto Slaanesh to keep their own incredibly slaaneshi existence free. They're the dominatrix that slaanesh pays to bust into your house in the night, loosen up your bum, and drag you to the dungeon.
Eldar worshippers of slaanesh, the real cultists, are there because they really love the idea of being slaany's mind bending fucktoy, and a little snuff at the end of a session with the prince/princess is hardly a problem for them. The high echelon of the slaaneshi cult have been violated and ended in innumerable ways by their master and lover, and have done the same to Slaany for their master's pleasure. Because the Slaaneshi chaos eldar have the greatest conceptual influence over Slaanesh and are the most influenced by their god's corruption they essentially become a recursively self-depraving magical realm. Slaanesh and the Slaaneshi eldar love each other and are perfect for each other, and whenever Slaany eats an old favorite it can't help eventually recreating them for more.
(Cont.)

>>51058772
The Slaaneshi eldar consider the mutability and acausality of the warp the sublimation of the old empire and have made a good run at adapting to it. Some of them have been in the the eye partying since the fall, and claim to have been upon the capital, a layered shellworld engrossed in a great all-spanning orgy, and to have witnessed the birth. Fewer still claim to have taken part in slaanesh's conception, dreaming up the perfect lover that now is their idol, themselves the participants most interested in endless variance of pleasure and perfect beauty, the more self erasing of the parents giddily gobbled up or used to destruction by their child, as they had hoped.
Because they dreamt Slaanesh to be the God of excess that always wants more it can't help but bring back its kinkiest toys and the perfect champions its enjoined ruining by reward though final deadly climax. The pleasure of gobbling up souls, of absolute obliteration, grew insufficient to the prince, as everything must, and the young god was soon inclined by its cult to more subtle perversions.
Likewise, with Isha free the lordess of excess faced the very real prospect of scarcity, even famine, and was made to squirm within its nature much like Nurgle was. Because it's nature was not so based in stasis as Nurgle the shift had a greater significance. The new position of the eldar forced Slaaneshi to understand differences in kind, where once it could only understand magnitude.

>>51058813
Slaanesh learned the there was a difference between being the god with the most raw warp influence and being the god with the most canny and capable followers, strongest realspace assets and positions, or the widest portfolio extendable to the broadest uses of power. Slaanesh learned to be ok with being the little bitch among the four and the wispiest typhoon of madness in the warp because the other gods don't seem to acknowledge the realspace situation as anything more than pieces on the board. Slaanesh understands that it's cult and realspace define and control it as much as the other way around, and acts on this knowledge. The core Slaaneshi Eldar, in mockery of their untainted kin in the imperium, take perverse joy in the seduction of human and xeno worlds, in alliance with unknown horrors, and in collaboration with all manner of heretek, haemonculus, sorcerer, or abominable intelligence in addition to the usual fare of demons. Their worst excesses disgust even the dark eldar with their reckless abandon and depraved xenophilia.

>tl:dr
>reasonable Slaanesh is what happens when you make reasonable eldar, and the imperium is reasonably fucked

>>51058902
>Their worst excesses disgust even the dark eldar with their reckless abandon and depraved xenophilia.

Except Lord Asdrubael Vect it would seem. Asdrubael Vect, the Dark Eldar's Dark Eldar.

>>51059199

I mean, sure I had back alley surgery to get a couple of extra orifices. Purely for sexual reasons.

But Vect is just weird.

>>51058772
>>51058813
>>51058902
>>51059199

It was mentioned back in the first thread that one of Lady Malys and Vect's most recent achievements of note was uniting the DEldar and Chaos Eldar. As a result, the 13th Black Crusade is going to be extra <s>fun</s> horrible for the Imperium, now that the DEldar are actually coordinating with Chaos rather than just being vultures raiding worlds left crippled or undefended in the wake of the Black Crusade.

Not all of the DEldar actually like this arrangement, but few are willing to voice their objections openly, because the people who tend to object to Vect's policies tend to "disappear".

>>51059259
Vect did that a long time ago and more besides and when he tells some uppity new little lordling that he is indeed his daddy the lordling would be well advised not to ask who his mother was. It's probably also Vect because what better way to spend an afternoon than getting fucked in new orifices with entirely new appendages.

The Dark Eldar fear Slaanesh. To a lesser extent they fear all the other gods as well due to the fact that it's quite hard to permanently kill a rich Dark Eldar and the gods can do that and make them wish they had never even been. And the Lord of the Dark City is fucking a woman who to most of the population is that fear incarnate.

The denizens of the City of Sins might want to grow up to be like Vect and respect and fear and hold him in awe as the pinnacle of society. lady Malys they just fear. But it's made up by the magnitude and variety of that fear. Liek holy shit Vect, WTF R U doin!?

>>51059396
Craftworlders, crone eldar, and dark eldar all see themselves as the true descendants of the eldar empire. The craftworlders argue they are the only ones really maintaining the empire's pre-fall spirit, dispite being at best an eldar/imperial nobility among a population of human and exodite vassals. The dark eldar are attached to the decadent period that led up to the fall, and recreate the empire as best they can in the dark city, even as their xenophobic arrogance stunts the power of their relatively small number. The croneworlders might not have really noticed the fall as such, they see Chaos and the eye of terror as the apotheosis of eldar psychic power and existence, and are flickering inconsistent fey folk that gleefully serve with any other worthy force of chaos.

Any ideas for the other three gods' chaos eldar?

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>>51059890
Previous thread Nurgel Eldar

>I imagine that since the fall there had been eldar going to nurgle to be close to isha, but since the raid they've been psychotically dedicated to dragging Isha back to the garden, but their actual loyalty to nurgle is questionable, and they now only cooperate because they both most want to steal back plague-dumpster waifu. For Isha's part, their company is just slightly preferable to nurgle's own, and they mistook this preference, and her mixed pity, disgust, and sorrow for genuine love for them, and they believe they will be welcome, eventually. They hope the prophecy with Oscar and Malys turns out, because they think it means they will get to rescue Isha.

In other words they are the eldar equivalent of greasy neckbeard M'Lady white night orbiters who see Isha as their incestuous mother+waifu.

Then there are the actual Nurgle ones who are rarer. They see the fall of the empire without any romanticism, only as evidence of the universal trend towards entropy and decay. The only possible means of enlightenment is despair and the acceptance of all being lost and fucked up and decaying without meaning. The clockwork of the universe counting down towards the end of all things. Inexorably. Irredeemably. Inevitability. It doesn't upset them much. They are past despair and into the enlightenment of acceptance and believe that by sharing Nurgle's gifts with all living things the inhabitants of this dying universe will be happier in the long run. Or dead. More probably dead. But if you're dead you aren't unhappy.

>>51059890
One of them might be "Khine". I'm taking the liberty of copying from WHF where the High Elves see him as the god of war while the Dark Elves see him to be the god of murder. Just straight up murder none of this martial skill or strength just kill people because they can.

>>51053977
A video of Catachan Jungle Fighters relaxing around in a beach?

>>51060104
Someone in a previous thread mentioned a warrior order of crone eldar that have spent the last ten thousand years trying to get Khorne or major khornare demons to wield Khaine's remaining weapons and armor.

>>51060222
It's possible they either can't tell the difference between the two of them and just assume that they were always the same deity originally any way.

It's possible they are trying to merge the two to make the god of all War and eldar god and therefore all true eldar warriors (them and nobody else, obviously) get super buffs.

It's possible that they see themselves as genuinely havng changed sides to the side that isn't shit.

It's possible that they see Khine as dead and You Keep What You Kill.

It's possible that they really don't care all that much and after all this time war and active combat is the only thing left that gets their jollies off. The whole worshiping a Chaos god thing is pure coincidence.

It's possible that a shit load of them are possessed and are no longer operating on the usual conventions of joined up thinking making speculation on motivation self-defeating.

It's possible, even probable, that all these views are represented by at least one warrior band.

Hi, newfag here. I was wondering, for the War of the Beast, was Malcador not present for it b/c of old age? And the WotB happens around the time the HH happens in vanilla 40k, right? Working on something I can add here, the AU is really detailed.

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>>51060603
Great Crusade took longer this time.

In vanilla it was about 200 years. In this it was about 300 because The Steward was more interested in creating a stable Imperium and negotiating the inclusion of civilized worlds rather then sprinting for the edge of the galaxy and fucking up worlds for expediency.

The fate of Malcador is not yet stated. The latest recorded thing he is written to have done was assist the other human and eldar psykers in opening and holding open a doorway to the Realm of Chaos when they went on the inter-dimensional panty raid.

It was suggested that Clan Terrawatt, the little north-eastern nation Malcador raised The Warlord in, was the only one with decent rejuvenent knowledge and tech. It was used as a bargaining chip to get the other nations to sign up in the early days of the Imperium.

With Malcador's combination of raw power, stability and skill as a psyker he would undoubtedly have been on the rejuvenent drugs from a relatively early age. Unlike Guilliman who was on them from about mid 40s. But also have to take into consideration that the rejuvenent drugs would probably have been cruder than than the more refined shit that the Biologicus would produce later.

So assuming that Malcador was already a wise old veteran wizard, lets say 150, at the time he found the creature that would one day be Emperor. By the end of the Great Crusade and start of the WotB he would be pushing 450.

In regular 40k Inquisitor Voke was 750 when he died and he was considered fucking old. But he had also had a hard life that would have taken a great toll in accumulated stress both physical and mental.

So if we are to assume that the upper limit for Voke would have been 800 and a bit ideally and for simplicity sake the primitive rejuvenants were only half as good then by the end of the Great Crusade Malcadore would have been seriously pushing the upper limits.

Until someone says otherwise we can assume that this is where he dies of natural causes.

>>51051592
I think Malcador would be dead by the end of the Crusade Era because he would be fucking ancient pushing centuries of age under his belt. The WotB marked the end of the Crusade Era just like the HH and take place a bit later. Unlike in vanilla!40k the Great Crusade last for at least 300 years. From the end of the WotB to around 3 thousand years afterwards would have the Grand Hunt where the SMs aren't full of assholes instead of the Great Scourging in vanilla. 5 or 4 thousand years after the WotB is the start of the Civil War Era lasting only 10 years. After the Civil War Era is the Dark Millennium which stretches to modern M.40 where its a four way struggle to hold the galaxy between the Imperium, Tyanrids, Necrons, and Chaos.

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>>51061003
well we were saying only the most immortal of the primarchs, Ferrus Mannus, Magnus, Alpharius/Omegon (maybe), maybe some others, all really advanced in age, living to see the civil war/Oscar crowned emperor.

So what's going on with Be'lakor?

I'm assuming he is still a Deamon Prince of the Undivided but what is he doing?

The Undivideds seem to be running the show as they are the only ones who can find their arse, should they have an arse, with both hands, should they have hands.

Also is it possible that Be'lakor is the last of the Old Ones? He is supposed to be OLD AS BALLS. He could date back to the time when there was only Tzneetch and Malal destroying and creating endlessly.

>>51061003
>>51061251

I was actually trying to compile a timeline of the primarch’s deaths to figure out where we are at. All are based on info from wiki and previous threads.

Died during or around WotB
Sanguinius – Well duh
Angron – Said to have died of organ failure right after WotB

Died between and 1st Black Crusade
Horus – Since Abbadon was leading the Void Wolves by this time, and apparently had been doing for a while, Horus must have either died or disappeared some time before then

Died during 1st Black Crusade
Dorn – Died holding the battlements at Cadia

Died between WotB/1st Black Crusade and Age of Apostasy
Perty – Died sometime after 1st Black Crusade, but was unable to participate in battle at Cadia
Guilliman – Actual date on this one, 014.M32. So about 2000 years
Kurze – Again, actual date, 243.M32, so about 2000 years
Lorgar – No date, but said to be 1100 years old
Russ – Disappeared 200 years after WotB
Fulgrim, Khan, Corax, Lion – Unknown, but all lived long enough to rebuild post WotB

Died after Age of Apostasy
Magnus – Barely
Vulkan – Somewhere between these two. No clue how he lived so long.
Ferrus Manus – Last of the primarchs. Died 616.M40, but was already dying at the time

Not counting A&O for obvious reasons.

So ignoring primarchs with ambiguous death dates, we have at least three primarchs living until M32. Which means juvenants are more capable than stated or we need to fix the dates. And what the heck is up with Vulkan? As far as I know we don't have perpetuals in this universe (Oscar is a Man of Gold, Ollanius Pius is just a normal dude) so how in the world did he live this long?

>>51062270
Vulkan was a Mk3S pattern astartes, the same type as the Grey Knights. There were three of the primarchs with this type of enhancement. Lion was another and I forgot the third. Lion was beat into a coma by Luther.

Of those 3 only Vulkan managed to live long enough to claim his pension.

Horus I'm going to suggest die of old age. The longevity treatments were designed for baseline humans and aren't very compatible with abhumans.

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>>51062121
I'm down. We need as much chaos fluff as we can get, and chaos ought to be Requiem Vampire Knight level crazy glorious evil.

>>51062270 (cont.)
We probably also need to nail down the main sequence of events in the nascent Imperium. From what it sounds like, Oscar unified Earth, unified the Solar System, then Eldrad came to him with the offer of the raid, then 300 years of Great Crusade, then WotB. WotB seems to have happened earlier in this timeline (M30) than in canon (M32), given that it takes place at about the same time as the Horus Heresy. Perhaps Urlakk Urg (the Ullanor warboss) was the Beast, which makes sense given the Beast Arises series says the Beast was from Ullanor/Armageddon and actually six different orks, whereas there is only one Beast here. However, the Beast went after the Imperium as revenge for Ullanor. So how do we handle this here? Beast got expelled from Armageddon, swore revenge, and then Chaos Gods/Crone Eldar offered power in exchange for revenge on Imperium?

1st Black Crusade probably happened pretty soon after the WotB. Although Chaos didn’t outright win the WotB, they thought the Imperium had been permanently crippled, and came around for another go as soon as they could reconstitute their forces to a viable level. However, they hadn’t accounted for the Imperium turning Cadia into a deathtrap (though Tzeentch might have). Although the Imperium had heavy losses (Dorn and Abbadon being the most prominent), the Imperium managed to stop much of the momentum of the Black Crusade at Cadia, preventing it from being as destructive as it could have been.

However, the 1st Black Crusade was also rather odd in that it was a slapdash effort to try and finish off what Chaos thought was a weakened foe. All of the later Black Crusades have been much better organized, much more thought out, and much more destructive.

>>51062548
>Horus I'm going to suggest die of old age. The longevity treatments were designed for baseline humans and aren't very compatible with abhumans.
Theres a venerated 'Tomb of Horus' in the blackstone fortress that serves as flagship for the Void Wolves, so one assumes Horus died and was entombed there. Then again, Horus was a staunch transhumanist and ballsy as fuck, so unless someone checks who can say.

>>51062121
>>51062567

I'm torn. I love the idea of Be'lakor being, to paraphrase >>51062567, "Requiem Vampire Knight level crazy glorious evil" and being something out of the ordinary, but if he is an ascended Old One then he would be almost game-breaking. Remember, these are the guys who figured out how to build the Webway and manipulate the Warp itself. If an Old One were to ascend, one would think it would make itself a full-on warp god, not "just" a daemon prince.

>>51062635
The Sons of Horus monastic order that joint own that Blackstone Fortress alongside a secretive branch or eldar will never allow the tomb to be opened.

Possibly because they know it's empty. Possibly just because it would be sacrilege.

Horus was transhumanist in that he believed humanity was at the start of its divergence into distinct branches suited to new environments. He believed that give or take 100,000 years baseline humans would be a minority to abhumans.

>>51060603
>>51061251
All right, thanks for the answers guys. I think I'm going to go with 'Malcador was already old when he found Emps. I'm also thinking that maybe his early-age rejuvenents reduced the impact of his later, more effective meds, which is why he doesn't get to see the WotB pop out of nowhere and beat up the Imperium.

>>51062270
To be fair, most of these guys had enhancements, as in Emperor-patented geneseeds, that would make their bodies much more stable than a normal humies'.
Ferrus was pretty much a Mechanicus cyborg, and methinks Vulkan lived very carefully in his retirement.

Also, just curious, will we have named Crone Worlds as a Chaos Eldar equivalent of Craftworlds?

>>51062793
Not necessarily.

You assume it would be an Old One at the apex of their species.

He could be an ascended Old One from way, way, way back when. Some earlier specimen from the infancy of their species. A proto Old One. Homo Erectus to our Homo Sapien.

Quick question. I was going to try and upload some of the writefaggotry from previous threads to the 1d4chan page (if it is okay with editfag). What should we do about writefaggotry in the form of stories as opposed to codex-style entries? Should we just put those at the end of the page?

>>51062877
Guilliman and Lorgar both did not have gene-seed enhancements, and yet are said to have lived for at least a millennium.

Though Vulkan being a Mk3S Astartes as mentioned by >>51062548 explains a lot of the discrepancies with his age very well.

>>51062877
Croneworlders have a shit load of deamon worlds, the multi-layed shell world that was the Old Eldar homeworld (possibly) and some of the satellite cities of the webway. The Twilight Cities. Let's assume The Dark City didn't absorb them this time.

Also Craftworld Altansar. It did not survive this time. The siege did not hold. The walls were broken. The slaughter was terrible. Billions of elder souls both the living and the half living in the Infinity Circuit offered to She Who Thirsts.

>>51062951
It's also probable that different people have different compatibility with the longevity treatments.

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>>51062567
on that note, this would make a good slaaneshi eldar warrior

>>51063047
Oh hell yes it would.

>>51062916
Make new section of writefaggatory tacked on the end between Timeline and archived threads.

I would do it but I'm on a kindle.

I have a half day off tomorrow. First in weeks. If you want I can do it then.

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>>51048520
>How is the Crone Eldar infantry squad organized?

The smallest grouping of the warriors boils downs to 5 warriors in 1 raiding party. These parties are commonly a squad of ten that were split into two during small scale raids. The most basic warriors that make up the bulk of the Crone Eldar warbands are known as Unlanded Warriors, due to the fact Crone worlds lack the space for private property many simply rent living space. These Unlanded Warriors often join the military to gain land and power. The rank of Subjugator is equivalent to a Sargent who ruthlessly keeps the squad in line. The rank of Second Hand is for who serves to help the Subjugator in all matters and also act as a courier while being second in command. The Witch-doctor is included in a squad to heal permanent damage and provide counter minor psyker support on the battlefield, although these weak psykers could but won’t heal minor wounds as these wounds serve to provide pain and pleasure. The Witch-doctor is always accompanied by an Unlanded Warrior who would protect and help the Witch-doctor but also be always around to put down the psyker if driven too insane or rebelled. The Whippers are the only pair of warriors who have less lethal weapons and are melee specialist. Whippers are also infamous for whipping comrades when ordered to by their Subjugator. The pair works to bring in targets alive and fend off melee warriors. The last 4 others in the squad are the Submissives who can be armed with melee weapons or ranged weapons like the Saw Rifles, and act as flexible general infantry.

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>>51063367 (cont.)
>What are they equipped with?

The Subjugator normally fights with a blessed sword and a Saw Pistol. Second Hands can have the same weapons as the Subjugators or have a Splinter Rifle instead. The Witch-doctor is often seen with a phallic staff which can smash skulls and the pointed bottom is made to slice through cloth flake armor. The Unlanded Warriors including the Witch-doctor guard are often armed with melee weapons like swords, hammers, and mauls with Repeating Saw Pistols. Alternatively the Unlanded Warriors are often also armed with a Saw Rifle and Saw Pistol. Whippers normally carry around a melee weapon, whip, and several Nervous Pistols. >>51063367

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>>51063422 (cont.)
>I’ve never heard of these weapons before?

All Saw weapons fire mon-molecule dices like Eldar shuriken weapons but are shaped like a buzz saws. The difference between the ammo is to prevent the rounds from sticking on a target but instead to simply slice through organs and arteries. Saw Pistols are semi-auto pistols that fire bursts of rounds. Repeating Saw Pistols hold more ammo, have a stock, are heavier, and can also fire automatically. Saw Rifles unlike the Splinter rifle doesn’t fire using pellet or slug rounds, these rifles shoot with steady stream of rounds being sent like an Eldar shuriken weapon. The blessed swords are just regular melee weapons but are given special effects by Warp sorcery or by one of the Dark Gods. The phallic staff is a weapon that becomes larger at the top with its head usually being round while the bottom of the staff is sharpened to pierce cloth, leather, chainmail, scale, and thin plate armor. Witch-doctors are known to disable human Guardsmen by simply shoving their staff through the flake cloth even most feudal worlds with metal armor can’t stop the piercing. Nervous Pistols can only fire once before reloading. Shooting out all 9 chemically laced bolts at once are all connected to the weapon via extremely thin wires. If these bolts touch flesh after firing, they would send a shocking electrical current aided by chemicals on the skin to overwhelm the nervous system and stop any motor functions of the humanoid size target.

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Of the Crone worlds, many, including the great domain of the Eldar, the shellworld capital now named Shah-Dome, are the domain of the Slaaneshi cult, and at some unreachable heart of the capital the Brass palace meets reality. The writhing heart of this semi-real kingdom is Slaanesh's access point to its base in the blasted wreck of the eldar empire, an asset unmatched by the older gods, and its loyal cenobites freely wander from eye to true warp. However, throughout the eye and beyond the prince's rivals have ensconced their favored. Mighty orders of killers dedicated to Khorne, undying eldar warriors, tempestuous empowered orks, and blackguard astartes of the imperium among them dominate the wolds in the wilds of the eye, and even carve out their own domains in the warp itself. Tzeench's sorcerers have taken mostly to the winding fortresses and redoubts of the webway, seers that cannot be tricked but by themselves and must read their own mind to know what they're thinking. The schemer's faithful magi and tinkers are indispensable in the courts of Shah-Dome and Commorragh, but their wicked, plotting colleges are distinctly unwelcome. The few followers of Nurgle among the eldar contemplate their grandfathers from the gutters and laboratories of the great cities of darkness, but most remain with him in his garden. Of the few active beyond his noxious hedges, the most prominent are attendants of Isha.

>>51063109
I don't mind doing it. I am just worried about messing something up or accidentally putting something on there that wasn't agreed upon. And I didn't want editfag to feel like I was stepping on his toes.

I'm mostly concerned with the stuff from two threads ago (thread 9b), since that one had a lot of writing on it and it didn't get uploaded to suptg, so people new to the project might not see that stuff.

>>51060043
>"nurglite eldar" are just shitty Isha neckbeards
>actual nurglite eldar are shitty nihilists
Damn, /tg/ is hitting close to home

Since we haven't talked much about the Orks beyond the Beast and that part of the setting needs fleshed out. I'd thought I'd share an idea I had for Ghazghull.

In thiz timelike, Ghazghull is more than just the leader of the biggest Ork Waaagh! in the galaxy. He's a Brain Boy.

Much like The Beast, Ghazghull is a member of a caste designed by the Old Ones to kick the Ork race as a whole in the brainpan and get them to do bigger, better things. No one noticed this at first because Ghazghull seemed to be born too shrimpy for an Ork. When he was born he was almost mistaken for a Grot. However, in a combination of brutal cunning and cunning brutality, Ghazghull managed to climb his way up the hierarchy by taking down Orks an ordinary Ork his size could never do. And, since to an Ork, being "the boss" meant being the biggest and baddest, the power of the Waaagh! meant that Ghazghull too became the biggest and baddest. Eventually he acquired the title of Mak Uruk Thraka, essentially making him yet another de facto successor to the Beast. By the time the Imperium first encountered Ghazghull, no one could have ever known he was born a runt by Ork standards.

Additionally, unlike the Beast, who more or less accepted the aid of the Chaos Gods. Ghazghull is a hardcore Gork and Mork worshipper. Ghazgull is scarily insightful for an Ork. He understands how the Waaagh! works, or at least in terms of "If da Orkz believe dey iz gonna win, dey'z gonna win; if da Orkz believe someding'z gonna happen, it happens". He can actually speak legible high and low Gothic, but doesn't so people underestimate him. He sees how the Orks have been essentially manipulated into acting as cannon fodder by serving the wrong gods, and he doesn't like it.

>>51066913 (cont.)

No one knows this, he doesn't tell anyone. But the signs are clear to those who look. Ghazghull surrounds himself with Orks that hew closest to the old ways, whereas those who outright turn their back on the Gorkamorka are pushed to the side. They are not necessarily shunned, but neither does Ghazghull show them any favor. And any Chaos Ork who tries to take his place quickly learns why Ghazghull is the boss.

Ghazghull knows if he could command the loyalty of the majority of the Ork race, if he promised enough lootin' and fightin' that is. But he also knows he can't take the forces of Chaos in a straight-up fight. So he waits. When Chaos assaults the Imperium, all he has to do is make sure the Chaos Orks take the majority of the losses while his forces stay clear. Then, when the Imperium, the Crone Eldar, and all the other factions have left themselves battered and bloody, Ghazghull can stab Chaos in the back and destroy the power of the rest. The galaxy will be engulfed in constant strife, with the Orkz at the top, as it should be. So Ghazgull waits, because "sometimez you havez to wait if youz wants to win".

>>51061003
>>51061251
Huh, I thought GC was more approaching the half-millenium mark (just for nice round numbers)

>>51066913 (cont.)
>>51066926 (cont.)

Brief note to the few things that might seem a little weird.

The idea that Mag Uruk Thraka is a title rather than a name in this timeline is based on the fact that Mag Uruk Thraka roughly translated to "the Beast" or "slaughtering Beast" in Ork, and it was mentioned the past few mega-Waaagh!s in Imperial history between the WotB and now were led by Orks given the title of "Beast". Of course, until now all of the successor Beasts have not measured up to the original.

The Gothic thing seems weird, but he can actually do that in canon, so its not that OOC.

And yes, he probably still has the voices in his head if we want to keep that.

>>51062270
>Died after Age of Apostasy
>Magnus - Barely
Maybe whipping up the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath was too much for one of his age?

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>3rd archived thread mentioned a Fenrisian regiment with dedicated Space Wolves detachment.

Looks like I'm writing the lore for this regiment.

Seeing the effectiveness of Cadian troops after encountering them in battle during the Great Crusade, Fenris adopted the Cadian Doctrine and deployed Cadian Foot Troops to the front. Yet the War of the Beast changed the outlook of the Fenrisians on the Cadian Doctrine with the lack of mortal manpower when faced with the Ork threat. During the war, several Cadian Foot Troops were entirely wiped out within the first week. The Death world breed heroes for the Space Wolves, not infinite manpower for many Foot Troops. Fenrisians abandoned the Cadian Doctrine after the war and switched to the Fusilier Doctrine that the famous Mordian, Praetorian, and Scintillan use. Sacrificing quantity for quality, the Fenrisians can always request Space Wolves regiments to merge with a Line Regiment. The Flak Armor for the Fenrisian Line Guardsmen uses extra metal plates compared to Cadians. The infantry under the Fusilier Doctrine would stand shoulder to shoulder forming into lines facing the enemy before firing. The Fenrisian Line Regiments took this tactic and expand it with the introduction of self-propelled artillery to provide mobile defense and keep up with infantry on attacks. In these regiments the Fenrisians officers are encouraged to outgun the enemy via volley fire and if that fails just charge them. Fenrisian line infantry are better trained than Cadians in melee combat with some even wielding swords into charges.

>>51062633
Afaik, the Beast here was just an ordinary Warboss who got superturbocharged by Chaos

>>51066913
>>51066926
>>51067057
Orkified Farsight? I like.

>>51067101
That is great. It emphasises the savagery with out making it go full cartoon.

>>51066913
We should come up with some suitable chaos ork contender for Ghazghull to surpass. Any noteworthy Orks that fit the bill? My current picture of chaos Orks is a motley band of green horrors, running the gamut from barely coherent, shape-shifting tornados of grots to chaos-mek designed gargants of metal and sinew that fly through the warp belching lightning. On the other hand Ghazghull would bring true brainboyz, absolutely insane intentional wagh-manipulating plans and tech, and forces like kommandos and other specialists that chaos orks are too removed from their genetic programming to become.

>>51067517
Honestly I would not go with Gazzy being a Brain Boy. I would have Makari, his favourite grot that sits on his shoulder, be the Brain Boy.

Lots of Warbosses have started having a favoured grot sit on their shoulder recently. How many are actually Brain Boys and how many are just copying Gazzy is unknown.

>>51067321
I basically thought about how a Swedish general would raise a Guardsmen infantry regiment if his only military experience was from the 30 Years War. Soldiers back then were pretty much looting savages with melee still always to be expected in battles for officers back than.

>>51067845
In one of the earlier threads it was mentioned that there are Fenrisian colonies on other worlds.

Russ was only able to get the Canis Helix to stabilize on Fenrisians and that limited the recruitment rate.

Answer was to up number of Fenrisians.

There are off-world Space Wolves now in addition to the Old World born.

>>51063422
>that crazy crony

Lady clearly needs a boyfriend. A Human one that is, someone to teach her what's really what.

>>51063367
>dat spiky and edgy space elf babe

Even when being that edgy and spiky and broody, they're still such waifus.

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>>51068493
>Waifuing Crone Eldar

Barmp

>>51036321
>>51039129
>Lofn aint born yet

I guess its safe to say Lofn (when she's born and alive) would be an important and even a political figure head at a young age.

Being the very first naturally born hybrid offspring between a human and an eldar. She'd get really special treatment, as in special education in which she's tutored by the best educators and whatnot. And also she'd be protected as a VIP 24/7. So not everyone gets to hangout with her or get close to her that easy.

Plus she'd probably be used as some spokesperson and or ambassador for further promotion of peace and unity throughout both species.

And she may or may not be targeted by assassins for political reasons, thus she receives VIP protection.

>>51070926
It's also worth noting that if we are following the Lofn fluff that she will be psychic or at least project a psychic aura.

The effect on sentient things will be a profound sense of peace. Even orks and 'nids act nice so long as she is close by.

The big question is where will she be raised and educated?

Taldeer probably want her raised a good Cadian and conscripted at birth, grandpa would want her safe on Ulthwe, LIVII would want her kept out of harms way and them all to move to Terra.

I've added this thread to the archive and added a link from 1d4chan page to the archive and added a bit on Yriel in them most rudimentary way possible in regards to what he did at Tanith.

>>51067617
I kind of like the idea, but then that just makes Gazzy the pawn behind the real mastermind. It would be kind of like in The Dark Knight Rises where Bane is built up to be this smart, terrifying enemy, and then its revealed he's just working for someone else and it takes a lot of the wind out of his sails. It makes one question how much of Gazzy's competence is his own, and how much is Makari's.

>>51067146
I was just thinking that if Brain Boyz are supposed to be hyper-intelligent Orks designed to unify and direct the Waaagh!, the Beast from canon more that fits those terms, given that it caused the Orks to become smarter and start developing such things as infrastructure, tactics, reliable teleporters good enough to teleport an attack moon to Earth's doorstep, and Mouth-of-Sauron-style Ork diplomats.

>>51067183
I was thinking of something else in terms of historical parallels, but you have a point.

>>51073029
Gazzy is still a badass in his own right, a warboss among warbosses.

But with Makari on his shoulder he is becoming The Beast.

>>51066632
How should Tzneetchian eldar be?

>>51074868
Time wizards

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>>51074888
Oh shit.

I think you're on to something.

>>51068105
I'm guessing only Fenris and Fenrisian colony worlds make Fenrisian Line regiments.

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>>51076661
Possibly. Possibly not.

This time Russ need not be invested in"war for the sake of war to keep the bloodlines stronk" dipshittery. Certainly the Steward wouldn't approve of it. Fenris might be relatively peaceful with the energy of the locals directed either at surviving their fucking awful planet or outwards at the rest of the universe. Galaxy is full of shit to kill and get killed by, no point in fighting each other whilst their are still orks to massacre.

Old World Fenrisians would be more wild in their approach, less coordinated as groups. Happy medium in the 5 - 10 man range for best kill to loss ration.

New World/Colony Fenrisians are more ordered but in a one on one fight will loose to the Old Worlders 9 out of 10 times.

They work best together with the New Worlders holding the line and securing targets, Old Worlders scouting ahead and harrying supply lines and the Space Wolves being called in for the OH GODS WHAT TEH FUCK moments.

Also helps that Ulrik the Slayer is the Viking Space Pope/High Priest/Fylkir (if you play Crusader Kings 2). The Colony Born might not listen to the King of Fenris but they will listen to Ulrik, who listens to the King of Fenris.

>>51063422
>Subjugator
>phallic staff
>Submissives
>wounds serve to provide pain and pleasure
>Whippers
Hardcore Slaaneshi

>>51067617
>>51073029
>>51073113
I kinda want Ghaz to be the superlative warboss - still just a warboss, but one pretty damn smart (for an Ork). But then with a brain boy on his shoulder, the situation should kinda be like the orks as a whole are with Chaos - either he knows he's being railroaded but doesn't care because the tracks still lead straight to the top, or he's smart (not necessarily intelligent) enough to know and takes in just enough to fuck shit up but not enough to turn into a pawn.

He's smart for a warboss, possibly the smartest and definitely the strongest. And with a brain boy or two onboard, he's approaching the Beast 's tier.

See: Smashfucker Prime contrasted against the Primarchs.

>>51077980
If the Brain Boyz are back and there is one whispering into the ear of ever big warboss then shit is going to get fucking ruined.

They could be directing the less warbosses to the Banner of the Beast and advising them to either follow it directly to the best fights ever or support it by coordinating their actions in such a manner that ends in good fights and strengthens Gazzy's hand.

Gazzy is nearly as stompy as an ork can be without getting Choas buffs, and he's coming back to Armageddon for a warm up on the road to Earth.

Brain Boyz, like the 'Nids, came out of fucking nowhere. Eldrad nearly drank himself into a coma when he realized what was happening.

>>51078320
>Necrons awaken
>Chaos is still around and has consumed some of the Old Enemy
Eh, no big deal.
>The rest of them have found an alliance with an "Imperium" of numerous other races.
Ugh, fine.
>The Other Old Enemy are thriving and are spontaneously beginning to spawn leaders and tacticians
mothERFU-

>>51076986
I like this idea. Kind of reminds me of how the IRL Norsemen colonized EVERYWHERE, from Greenland to Iceland to Denmark to Russia. And with the Canis Helix being a secret military black box project as opposed to DaoT gene-tampering on Fenrisians (which somehow Leman Russ picked up in canon despite being an offworlder), there is nothing really stopping the Fenrisians from expanding and setting up colonies everywhere. For every feral world or Survivor civilization encountered during the Great Crusade, there are probably ten more planets hospitable for human life but whose populations were completely wiped out.

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>>51078543
Consider that the disunity and tendency for large scale ork on ork action was a big chunk of what was keeping the orks in check. Now that is gradually diminishing.

Also the 'Nids are about to, or are just starting, to make galaxy-fall in earnest.

And the Dark and Chaos Eldar are allied in the dream of rebuilding the worst of the Old Empire and making it ever worse.

And the Silent King has just performed the first successful reverse biotransference, possibly soon to remove their one biggest weakness.

I don't think there is enough lube in the universe for this ass ravaging.

We can only hope the Impossible Child is born soon and becomes best friends with the Void Dragon.

>>51073113
>>51077980
>>51078320

The issue is that even if Ghazghull is the Warboss of Warbosses, if Makari is a Brain Boy Ghazghull is still the submisssive one in the relationship. If Brain Boyz are the leader of Ork society, then the hierarchy is clear, the Orks obey the Brain Boyz, even if they are outside the normal Ork hierarchy of bigger=boss. Even if Ghazghull is some super-smart Warboss on the level of Makari, their relationship still isn’t going to be as equals, as you still have the caste difference. This severely limits the amount of agency Ghazghull can have.

Part of the point of Ghazghull, both in vanilla and in this timeline, is that although many Warbosses have claimed to be as strong as the Beast, but all of them have come up short. Ghazghull is the first Warboss to actually have the potential to measure up to the Beast, if not surpass him (in vanilla at least).

I’m not super sold on the idea, but we could always have Ghazghull and Makari both be Brain Boyz. It would be a way to make Ghazghull seem less like Ork Farsight and kind of resemble how some depictions of Gork and Mork have Gork as a super-Ork (cunningly brutal) and Mork as a super-Grot (brutally cunnin’).

On the other hand, I think the canon depiction of Gork and Mork is that you can barely tell the two of them apart. In that case you could have the two as an intentional contrast to the Ork deities. Ghazghull and Makari could have been born as "twins" (paralleling Gork and Mork) but ending up so different from one another that it would be hard to see the relationship between the two in the first place.

I really like the idea of Makari being much more than he seems based on vanilla, but I’m not too keen on diminishing Ghazghull’s role to being abnormally smart muscle for the man behind the man.

>See: Smashfucker Prime contrasted against the Primarchs.

Okay, I was able to find bits of this, but I am not completely sure what you are talking about.

>>51078789
It's possible that the Canis Helix was altered by Russ, or rather the Gene-smiths in his employ, to work on the genetic markers already found commonly in the population of Fenris rather than actually altering the natives.

Fenris was chosen because it was a nowhere shithole with little of value to anyone, nobody had much reason to go there and they were too primitive to build any sort of space craft and leave or get word out. Perfectly contained and secret and it was years before the Steward realized what Russ was doing, by which time he had gotten it working right and there was no point shutting it down.

The markers were common in lesser instances on most human worlds, including Old Earth. Russ' successful alterations were proof enough of that. It was just more reliable on Fenris.

Fenris, despite slanderous lies, is not populated by splice descendants.

>>51078833
Also the Ultrasmurfs let out the biggest surviving chunk of the Nightbringer, who's figured out how to become some kind of part C'tan part warp god.

The Imperium's only hope is that the different factions will kill each other off before they get to them, but that's going to be pretty hard seeing as Chaos/Orks, 'Nids, and Necrons are all going to have to travel through Imperial territory to fight one another.

30 years war in spess? 30 years war in spess.

>>51078995
I think Russ did have the de facto approval of the Steward, but the Steward didn't exactly know what he was doing. The Steward thought Russ was going to experiment with new super-soldier techniques on volunteer subjects, he didn't know he was going to turn an entire planet into his personal petrie dish with some of them devolving into literal werewolves (to be fair, Russ probably did get the native Fenrisians to volunteer).

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>>51078916
It's not that Gazzy is taking orders. He could tell Makari to zog off and Makari wouldn't be able to do much about it except possibly get eaten.

It's just that Makari generally has very good and fun sounding ideas. Gazzy hasn't agreed with all of them and has ignored them accordingly.

Gazzy is also well aware that he is being directed. And he is smart enough to know that Makari is aware that he is aware of this. He just doesn't care becasue the path is going in the direction he wants.

Possibly they are channeling Gork and Mork. But Gork and Mork are the essence of orkdom. If you are already 100% orky then being infused with the spirit of the ork gods would have no notable effect.

>>51079016
With vampire demigod infiltrators.

>>51079175
Why not just let them both be brainboyz? It works better, in my opinion, and gives Ghaz a strong right hand instead of rendering him dependent. If a brainboy isn't so powerful that it's no big deal if the warboss is or isn't one they aren't powerful enough to matter. The orks already have leaders, psychics, and mad scientists, those aren't the roles a brainboy would need to fill. The brainboy is special because it really is the savy, reasonable ork.

>>51080215
The Nightbringer doesn't see jamming shards of himself into sentient beings as building an army, or a cult. Every time it embeds a shard in an imperial aristocrat or eldar seer, or even in the necrodermis of those prodigal lords, it emboldens with bloody appetite another iteration of itself. The superficial qualities of these beings do not perturb the Nightbringer. They serve his function, they are he, he is death.

>>51078916
>>51077980 never said anything about Brain Boyz being at the top of the heap, though? If anything, Makari's on Ghaz's shoulder and not Ghaz at Makari's feet.

Mekboys can comfortably produce things that are tougher and usually killier than regular orks, they can produce fucking Gargants, but are they at the top of the heap? The glorious thing about the Ork hierarchy of bigger = boss is that, it doesn't fucking matter what you bring to the table; bigger = boss. The idea of Ghaz being a super-warboss that just needs a leg up to get to the Beast's level is pretty good, actually.

>Smashfucker Prime
He's /tg/'s own OC DONUT STEAL Chapter Master, and an unholy pile of overpowered cheese. On his own he is far superior to any other chapter master and makes Moloc look like a child with a peashooter; it takes 36 S10 AP2 hits to take a single wound off him (just pulled straight off 1d4, haven't ran the maths myself).

If you pit him against the Primarchs, and attach a command squad to make up the points difference, then assuming:
>Infinite length game
>Fighting in a vacuum (no other units around save for the Primarch, Smashfucker, and his command squad hiding behind a bush)
>Smashfucker's Librarians are immune to Perils
>Sudden melee; neither side can use ranged (or any) attacks beforehand

...mathhammer states that he beats all of them bar Magnus; none of the Primarchs can actually even reliably wound him between armour, Invuln, FNP and IWND, and Magnus can either beat him desperately or comfortably depending on what warp majjyks he chooses to use.

Based on a theorised statline that's effectively "as maxed out as you can get without Strength D weapons", the Emperor himself cannot kill Smashfucker, but neither can he kill Emps. Fun.
Hence, the idea that Ghaz on his own is an absolutely monstrous Warboss, but when he brings friends then even the Beast may need a new set of pants.

>>51080570
Also the shards also include the Deciever infiltrating society to do Deciever things. Its like the difference between the vampire clans in World of Darkness, or the vampire courts in Dresden Files. A Deciever star vamp and a Nightbringer star vamp may both be "vampires", but beyond that they are totally different beings.

Deciever star vamps are the SPESS version of what most modern folk think of vampires, evil aristocrats like Governor Takis who secretly have unholy powers which they use to prey on the common folk for their own ends. Nightbringer SPESS vampires are more like old school vampires, creatures that feel like death itself and only serve to strengthen their master, even when they play dress-up as being civilized. So like the difference between White/Red and Black courts in Dresden, or Nosferatu and Ventrue in WoD.

>>51080758
Exactly what Brain Boyz are has never really been well established here or in canon. In canon they were originally supposed to be the ruling intelligent class of Orks, commanding the Orks and Grots despite (supposedly) being the ancestors of the Snotlings. Then GW backtracked and said they were just the Ork name for the Old Ones.

Here, the Brain Boyz are definitely Orks, as mentioned by the timeline. However, what they are and how they relate to other Orks (i.e., are they a type of Ork, like a Weirdboy or a Mek, or are they as distinct from Orks as both are from Grots?) has never really been established.

Added some of the stuff from previous threads to 1d4chan. Aun'O Da, the Void Dragon stuff, and The Long Odds. What else needs to go on? Kharn? Necromunda?

>>51079175
>>51080290
>>51080758

Regardless of whether or not we keep Ghazzy as a Brain Boy, I kind of like the idea that he clawed his way up in Ork society, using the power of the Waaagh! to take what was not given to him by birth.

>>51081469
both, and fulgrim

>>51081064
The Deciever does this through the occasional emissary that leaves its dyson sphere, and the imperium is yet to capture a vampire that has seen the secrets within the structure. The Nightbringer forms his satellites personally, from surviving foes that dare hold against him in single combat. The Imperium has learned more of the C'tan's acts in the present era (M41) from vampiric shard hosts than they have form the Necron Empire, which remains tight lipped on the subject. The Deceiver's stock has shown a marked interest in Eldar and Human aristocracy, as well as the nobility of the dark cities, the Nightbringer's hold in their number all the multitudes their lord has slaughtered, and many have been uncovered among the imperial officer corps, and in the aspect temples, and even leading whaggs.

>>51081961
Deciever's not in Dyson Sphere. Outsider is. Deciever was shattered by Necrons with extreme prejudice.

Necron Empire has a serious grudge against any and all shards of Deciever that are at large. They won't even use them if desperate like they will with the other C'tan. Most Deciever C'tan shards are terrified of being captured by the Necrons.

>>51081625
I thought Fulgrim wasn't done yet?

>>51082802
There were still three posts of writing for him

File: Nobledark Imperium Timeline.jpg (287 KB, 2381x819)

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I put together a preliminary timeline of the Imperium, given most of the major events that have been talked about so far or listed on the wiki. However, a couple things are a little sketchy.

There is no good date for the Unification of T’au. The end of the Mon’tau in canon is said to have taken place in late M37. However, at the same time the First Sphere of Expansion is listed as having begun in 502.M37, meaning the Tau were a spacefaring species at this time. Correlating the exact date of the Unification of T’au with the Imperial Calendar is also weird since a Tau calendar year does not correspond with an Imperial calendar year.

No clue when the first Black Crusade is supposed to have taken place. The date listed here is simply the date of the Black Crusade in canon.

Although the order of events in the early Imperium is clear, the timing is not. Sequence goes: Oscar unifies Sol System -> Eldrad comes with offer of raid either then or when Imperium is just beginning to expand past Sol -> Great Crusade -> WotB -> Oscar marries Macha/Isha as political favor to Eldrad and Eldar join Imperium. Great Crusade is supposed to have taken 300 years instead of 200, but everything else does not have hard dates. Assumed WotB occurred in first years of M31, like Horus Heresy

Also date of discovery of Oscar seems a bit early. Unification of Earth said to have lasted until mid M30, seems a bit long.

>>51083485
I believe first contact with the Eldar was made during expansion in the Great Crusade rather than just before it; given that the bargaining chip for the Isha Panty Raid is Eldrad helping the IoM with organising their chaos-fighting shit, it was probably a decent way into the GC.

>>51083245
Fair enough. It shall be done.

If editfag is here, I am so sorry

>>51084093
Why...?

>>51083485
Should someone put this pic up on the wiki? At the very least it would be a pretty good placeholder until any vagueness is cleared up.

P.S Idk how to edit the 1d4chan page

>>51083485
So I just noticed a bit of a problem with the timeline. Farsight and Shadowsun are supposed to be alive but are also supposed to have been around during the Tau civil war (mid-M39). Tau are only supposed to live 30-50 years.

In canon, Farsight is supposed to have lived as long as he has through liberal use of the Dawn Blade. But since the Dawn Blade is one of the Blades of Vaul here, there's no reason for Farsight to have lived as long as he has.

I suppose the obvious answer is that Farsight and Shadowsun are long dead by M42, but that would mean the feud between the two of them is essentially never resolved, but that is rather boring (especially since we have a lack of Tau plotlines in the first place).

Shadowsun could have frozen herself Halo-style saying "Wake me when Farsight sticks his ugly head out so I can kick his ass" since that's how she's around so long in canon, but that would mean she peaced out on rebuilding after the civil war, which is not in the interests of the Greater Good. And I am not sure Farsight has any options for prolonging his life.

File: saw rifle.png (191 KB, 1024x574)

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>>51063450
>How does the Saw Rifle work?
All Saw weapons fire thin crystal discs with monomolecular sharp edges to slice apart cloth and flesh, similar to Shuriken weapons. Unlike the Shuriken catapult, the Saw rifle attempted to fix the inaccuracy that existed in all disc firing weapons. Encounters with the Dark Eldar led to the introduction of adding a longer barrel and stock to allow medium range shooting. Attached to the under-barrel is the combat hook to pull down shields and barricades. The stock can act as a club due to its heavy weight. The loading system for the discs is almost the same as a Shuriken catapult but with extra internal measures to prevent jamming. Spikes with holes are used as sights but the ranges of anything beyond 100m are commonly ignored by Unlanded Warriors. The pin-edge discs were used to kill or disable targets unarmored targets from the time of The Fall to until the War of the Beast. When the Crone Eldar first started fighting armored soldiers they soon realized the pin-edged discs couldn't slice through Flak armor. It led to the development of razor saw and buzzsaw discs to try to allow troops to deal with Flak armor but they still can't properly deal with Power armor.

Holy shit, these threads are moving fast now. Leave for like a day or two and there's 200 new posts. I remember back in the early threads we could barely keep it bumped.

>>51083485
>>51083878
Like others have said, the raid on Nurgle's realms wouldn't have happened until later in the Great Crusade, when Eldrad realized the bumbling monkeighs were actually doing pretty well and might be of some use. The Eldar and Imperium probably have only a few decades of Crusade cooperation before it's WotB fun time. I also believe we said in earlier threads the Crusade might have gone on for 500 years, since Stewie is more concerned with integrating planets well rather than just as fast as possible (also on a meta level, it helps fill some of the blankness of the timeline).

>>51062548
The 3rd is Sangy.

>>51070926
>>51071019
>Lofn becoming something akin to an ambassador and secretary of state even at young age
>Lofn getting special treatment and being considered as an very important key figurehead

LOL imagine once Lofn becomes a young adult, some fellow political jackass suggests:

>You know Colonel Ulthwe, I think your daughter would be just like Madam Jubblowski. Beautiful, is the product of the Human-Eldar alliance, and would be best reserved for the finest of men."

>Taldeer and LIVVI take a moment to analyze what he means by that
>then both Taldeer and LIVVI become ever so slightly livid as Taldeer then tugs the guy closer to her and asks really intently

>Taldeer: "I'm sorry, but did you suggest my daughter to become a courtesan?"
>Nobleman: "Uhh, Colonel Ulthwe what's the mat-"
>Taldeer: "ANSWER, my question... You must IMPLYING something about my daughter to be reduced to nothing but some glorified swinger are you?"
>Nobleman: "Uhhhhhmm..."

>LIVVI joins in the conversation as he grabs hold of the guy's face and turns it to face him and speaks to him calmly yet intimidatingly

>LIVVI: "So what you're saying is, is that our daughter has never been capable of being an ambassador and spokesperson in office, DESPITE her young age?"
>Nobleman: "Uhhh-"
>LIVVI: "May Farseer-Colonel Ulthwe and I and I remind you that Miss Lofn Ulthwe; first of her name. Has become a political figure head in office at just the age fifteen when she has been discovered to have gifts that can potentially lead and unite millions under our banner?"
>Taldeer: "And that she's been doing her political job at the age where most teenage girls are still at junior-high? So, what's your implications again?"
>Nobleman: "Uhhh... Nothing! Nothing derogatory at all!"

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bump

bump

>>51086334
That's a lovely mental image. Even better to imagine it at an official Cadian State Function.

By that time also the stories of what happened to the people behind the various assassination attempts would have had years to circulate and ferment.

On the topic of Bhargesi.

My quest for finding canon source material have revealed to me the fact that they are "Hyper-violent" and that Space marines have been fending of nids to make sure they don't absorb them.

So here is my take on what they could be.

What if the Bhargesi is a bio-weapon gone wrong from a now extinct empire (guess why) that once upon a time existed in the Grendel stars.

Or

Khorne worshiping "hyper-violent" aliens that likes loud slaughters at the beach, midnight blood sacrifices and keeping cattle for food (humans, Eldar, tau, chickens).

ORx2

The former as an origin but that turned into the latter as time went on.

>>51086334
...and yet the entire imperium still jacks off to her. Just like we already do.

>>51085945
Ironically, I think the AU's suddenly taken off with activity after the anons came in and shat on it.

>>51087709
Or they are horseshoe crab people with excellent regenerative qualities.

They can lay a thousand eggs each per season and so they are born with naturally extremely high competition for food, ensuring that only the most aggressive and murderous make it even to childhood.

They are also so naturally regenerative that a severed limb will grow into a new Bhargesi if it lands in mud sufficiently nutrient rich.

They see nothing wrong with killing each other by the thousand at any age or condition. They aren't properly sapient until just before adulthood, the brain being the last thing to develop properly. The children up till the end of adolescence are about as bright as a hyena with the personality of a honey badger with tooth ache.

They obtained space flight the same way the Kroot did, when a bunch of orks went to their world to die.

Possibly they are worshipers of Khorne, although that's just their natural state of being so it's hard to tell.

Although they display signs of quite high intelligence, at least among the middle to upper grades of leadership, all attempts at communication have failed. The conclusion is that we have nothing to say to one another.

They also eat the dead, yours and theirs, and prefer it to any other sort of meal.

They are well and truly on the Imperium's little list.

So it's safe to assume that this

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Port_Maw_(planet)

is a DaoT relic?

I'm going to suggest that it is considered the "homeworld" or capital of the Void Born. They haven't had a king since Ezekyle Abaddon but this is where the tribal chiefs meet.

>>51088244
Good stuff

Growing a new Bhargesi from a fallen limb. Could you give more details on this?
Will the limb turn into an infant or an adult?
Will it be faster compared to a regular hatchling?

>>51088769
I was thinking in the manner that Starfish do.

If one of them looses a limb the limb grows back. Lots of organisms do this so it is impressive but not too rare.

What is fucked up is that sometimes the severed limb grows another Starfish.

As for the Bhargesi I'm imagining them looking something between a Mirelurk from Fallout and Mass Effect Krogan but leaning towords the Mirelurk in terms of mass. They lay eggs by the hundreds and it varies greatly how much food their is as to how quickly they grow.

Under optimal conditions they can reach maturity and sapience in about 10 years. The less food, the longer it takes. It is, however, very difficult to starve them to death as they can go into stand by mode and make do with one Happy Meal for two months. Also they will kill and eat each other rather than go into suspended animation. This has no psychological or physical ill effects on them.

Growing an new Bhargesi from a severed limb is not as reliable as doing it the normal way. Tends to lead to deformity and requires suspension in something nutritious although you can go from buried arm to new Bhargesi in a matter of just over a year. Inter tribal warfare usually results in the other side either being eaten or ritually dismembered and harvested (and sometimes then eaten).

You can get 4 or 5 fresh Bhargesi from 1 corpse. Sometimes 6. You just have to cut the body up evenly. Insufficient mass and the meat will not take root.

This makes Bhargesi invading things like agri-worlds a big problem, similar to orks.

>>51089244
So weapons that cauterize or turn them to mush will prevent them from doing this?

>>51089481
Yes.

But they will still eat the corpses.

And they can reproduce via parthenogenesis and are all hermaphrodites.

So even if you are really carful about getting rid of the bodies if you leave one survivor to limp into the wilderness you could have 1,000 in a year assuming all young survive and adequate food. In 10 years 1,001,000.

If you only leave one chunk of them buried in a field or out in the leaf litter of a forest you add a year on to this.

Not as bad as orks in that they can't into spores and they aren't a traveling ecosystem.

But they are as violent and they are as hard skinned and strong as gene-stealers and the adults are comparable in brain power to humans.

>>51040194
>>51041673
>>51042027
On the one hand I'm pretty sure that this is someone's magical_realm.jpg but on the other hand it fits the setting so well. Isha has weaponized Jubblowski's femininity.

>>51088722
Void Born migrant fleet originally started as a group of well-armed space travelling merchants who traded goods between the various worlds of Sol.

>>51085945
It still has trouble staying bumped. Ironically as >>51088113 said, it tends to really get going when someone shitposts and riles everyone up.

Eldrad only contacting the Steward during the Great Crusade makes sense, since from Eldrad's perspective the Imperium has only just become something to be noticed and from the Steward's perspective he's run into enough Chaos cults on planets by this point to want to give Chaos a black eye.

Unification era seems a little long too. It took Oscar ~300 years to unify the galaxy (even if we bump that up to 500 years and move WotB back), about the same to unify Sol, but it took him over a millenium to unify one single planet? Especially since everything seems to have been happening towards the end of that period, since many of the primarchs joined late in the Unification and Astartes upgrades were only concieved after Old Earth was unified and Steward had full access to the total knowledge of Earth and Luna.

>>51090768
I got the impression from the primarch writefaggatory that the Unification of Old Earth took only within th 20 - 25 year range.

>>51090824
Exactly. And it makes sense that it would have to be in that timeframe, in order for people like Russ, Vulkan, Sangy, Khan, Dorn, Fulgrim, etc. to be young enough to receive the Astartes upgrades. It makes some sense too, conquerors in the past were able to swamp most of Eurasia in less than a lifetime, it seems reasonable that when the Warlord got going it only took about a century or two tops to unify Earth (except Hy Brazil). It also makes sense if Malcador lived less than a millennium yet lived long enough for the raid.

>>51090768
>to want to give chaos a black eye
I'm gonna put this into the new intro fluff sometime soon, but given that Oscar is a Man of Gold instead of a bajillion dead shamans, I feel like he should be correspondingly more intelligent scheming and planning ahead (a la eldar keikaku'ing but not reliant on the warp) but far less knowledgeable about the warp and chaos. Given that human psykers only started emerging in the tail ends of the DAoT (which is when Oscar went on ice), the only reliable source he'd have would be Magnus - who IIRC had more instinctive affinity for psyking than technical knowledge. He'd probably recognise the Warp as a sea of soulstuff he drew his power from, and that it can lead to some Super Corrupting Bad Shit (TM), but probably wouldn't be aware of Chaos as anything more than a vague concept.

Plus, this lays the ground perfectly for them to get schooled by Eldrad, leading to the formation of the GKs, and the publications/imperium-wide issuing of:
>"Chaos Daemons and How to Kill Them" (Magnus)
>"Chaotic Corruption? On MY World? It's More Likely Than You Think." (Lorgar)

Thoughts?

>>51092077
Ursh was balls deep in Chaos and Magnus learned much from his mother who was pretty knowledgeable.

The most infamous book on Chaos Magnus wrote was

Gods and Deamons: A Spotters Guide.

Lorgar wrote The Book of Lorgar. AKA Chaos 101 For All Schools.

>>51084873
The freezing/stasis thing could totally work for Shadowsun. Is the Dawn Blade in the hands of the Eldar though, or is it just a myth? If the latter, then maybe Farsight finds it and does his thing, if the former then perhaps the Tau (both pro-Imp and pro-separatist) have been working on their own version of juvenat to live longer.

>>51092157
>Ursh was balls deep in Chaos
hehe

Just found another issue in the timeline. The Beheading is said to have taken place just prior to the War of the Beast (and it is mentioned the High Lords and Steward were so focused on the Beast that this is the only reason they did not see it coming), but the date given for the Beheading is in M32. The rest of the writing for this section is really good, so I would suggest just bumping the Beheading back to just before whenever the War of the Beast is supposed to take place.

>>51058698
necron cultural exchange?