Out of curiosity, what exactly is going on with the Traitor legions? The wiki pages are a mess.

>>49811045
Your guess is almost as good as mine. As far as I know, the Traitors are:

>Heralds of Hektor
The account needs more detail but it makes some sense.

>Eternal Zealots
Had a long writing stall. There's a lot of new material on the page that is of dubious origin, but at this stage it's more likely that the narrative will be retold rather than profoundly changed.

>Sons of Fire
In re-write hell. Current writer keeps changing his mind and making drastic changes every so often.

>The Justicars
In triple re-write hell. There was meant to be a "short version" at https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Justiciars, but the other page has now gone off in a different direction.

>Life Bringers
In continuity hell. Had a writer change, new writer didn't like updating pages to reflect new material he added elsewhere. New writer left, old writer came back, things should improve.

>Lions Rampant
In good shape.

>Iron Rangers
Doin' Peachy.

>Crimson Eagles
The latest big promise in that Legion slot, having been given the nod over the Crimson Teeth.

>Black Augurs
Copped a lot of heat but it looks like they'll stay with a slight shift of tone. (Basically, the Voidwatcher will get some motivation for being EEEEVIL.)

>>49811153
Hmm, so not as bad as the state of the wiki pages would suggest. The three legions in limbo suck because they're linked to so much important stuff though.

>>49811336
It does suck, but I feel better about it now that the Reformation (post-Heresy) is starting to get written.

>>49812022
That's pretty subtle

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Bump

>>49811417
Hey Froggy, would you mind if I restored the Stone Men and the Entombed to the Space Marine Chapters page?

Also, apparently both of these Legions have pretty deep flaws in their gene-seed, do these get rectified in the future or are the Entombed and the Stone Men going to have the fewest Chapters?

>>49814280
I went ahead and added the Stone Men and The Entombed to the Space Marine Chapters page.

If there is anything on the wiki that you guys would want updated, but don't really have the time to do so, please let me know.

>>49811153
>In triple re-write hell. There was meant to be a "short version" at https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Justiciars, but the other page has now gone off in a different direction.
So, it's your version, or no-ones version?
No creative freedoms for writers unless you personally sign off on the ideas?

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I love my job. Convince me to work on the IA instead of watching anime tonight.

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>>49815613
Which anime are you watching tonight?

What cultural influences haven't been used extensively?

>>49815704
Idk
Whatever I feel like.

>>49815723
Native American?

>>49815723
>What cultural influences haven't been used extensively?

Its easier to say which have been used already.

Heralds of Hektor: Macedonian
War Scribes: None
Sons of Fire: Persian
Void Angels: Revolutionary France
The Entombed: None
Stone Men: None
Crimson Eagles: #1, Best Ever
Lions Rampant: English
Steel Marshals: None
Thunder Kings: Irish/ Scottish
Life Bringers: None
Justicars: None
Black Augurs: TBD
Silver Cataphracts: Russian
Eternal Zealots: None
Scale Bearers: None
Stone Men: None
Eyes of the Emperor: Indian
Iron Rangers: Celtic

So to summarize any culture other than: Macedonian, Persian, Revolutionary France, Vietnam-Era America, English, Irish/ Scottish, Russian, Indian, and Celtic is free game.

>>49815939
I could have sworn there was an Injun loyalist Primarch

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>>49816033
Corax?

>>49816030
What do you mean by #1 best ever for the eagles?

And by Indian do mean Poo in Loo or >Muh stolen land

>>49816070
>What do you mean by #1 best ever for the eagles?

Oh you silly little Europoors.

>And by Indian do mean Poo in Loo or >Muh stolen land

Dot, not feather.

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Actually, scratch that. I'm not gonna watch anime.

Convince me to work on the IA instead of my homebrew Warhammer esque fantasy setting.

>>49815094
Where do you get that from? I'm not saying that the writer in question has to follow my draft or even get a finished copy in any definite time. (The writer has been in the project since the original "create a Primarch" thread.) My understanding, based on discussion with the writer, was simply that the "Justiciars" page would serve as an outline that could be referenced while the full version is fleshed out, so that the Legion wouldn't have to be ignored by the rest of the project until he's done.

>>49816030
This list is very narrow and in some cases (especially the Thunder Kings and Iron Rangers) simply wrong.

>>49816572
>This list is very narrow and in some cases (especially the Thunder Kings and Iron Rangers) simply wrong.

Then correct it.

>>49816626

This. I'm new to this whole thing but I've read up on it a bit, and lurked in a few threads. There's two legion slots open and I wish to fill at least one

>>49816626
I thought I did?

If it wasn't clear, I don't agree with the project of saying that there are just a few influences used. To my knowledge, the least used cultures are those of the peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa and Australia, with Polynesians somewhat behind.

>>49816713
Do you mean the two Lost Legions, or are you talking about replacing the 13th or something?

>>49816730
>I thought I did?

No, you just said that the post was wrong, not what was wrong with it or what you even meant by saying that the list was narrow.

>>49816572
>Where did you get that from?
You are Lumey correct?
The Justiciars page user history is just written by Lumey.
Between that, your comment, and the writer having been shittalked about in I think a few of these threads now, it seems that way.

>My understanding, based on discussion with the writer, was simply that the "Justiciars" page would serve as an outline that could be referenced while the full version is fleshed out, so that the Legion wouldn't have to be ignored by the rest of the project until he's done.
If that is the case, then maybe it isn't so bad. It's more reasonable, though it still doesn't dispel the notion of your permission being required.
Aside from a lot more content, what's different between the Justiciars page, and the Justicar page?

>>49816730
Replacing the Justicars? Whatchu talking 'bout Willis?

>>49816030
>Cultural Influence

The Knights Hospitalier/Lazarus actually.

>>49816865
For the Eternal Zealots? How so?

>>49816777
>it still doesn't dispel the notion of your permission being required.
The main reason people think that my permission is required for things is that most of the writers seem to consider anon to be beneath their contempt and hardly even talk to you guys. If I seem skeptical about taking on ideas from the thread, it's because I know that I'm going to have to take responsibility for them. (It might come across as a bit subjective, but when people are accusing me of tyranny I generally find myself thinking that it's not really worth fighting to get their ideas included.)

>shittalked
The amount of shit that the 13th Legion author gets is far less than they deserve. He's the guy who took the Gorgers away from an active writer, leading to the Crimson Teeth fiasco. I realise that people like to say that I control everything because I state my views on things, but I've never done anything like that in this project.

>what's different
Legion culture, gene-seed, role of the Primarch, relationship between the Primarch and the Emperor...

>>49816969
>most of the writers seem to consider anon to be beneath their contempt and hardly even talk to you guys.

Dude, you are literally number one when it comes to treating anons as being beneath contempt, although you are more willing to let them know in comparison to other writers.

>>49817059
I don't think you've thought that through. If anon was literally beneath my contempt, I'd just ignore anon's posts.

>>49816969
>If I seem skeptical about taking on ideas from the thread, it's because I know that I'm going to have to take responsibility for them. (It might come across as a bit subjective, but when people are accusing me of tyranny I generally find myself thinking that it's not really worth fighting to get their ideas included.)
Have you asked anyone else to do this at any point? You say you state your views forthrightly, but in the last few threads at least there's been nothing aside from the stuff getting you accused of tyranny.

>>49816730
The lost legions.

The easiest way to make an Alt history is bring the lost legions to the fore. They exist in the OG canon as an outlet for Our Dudes. However this entire Alt Canon is Our Dudes from Macedonian Hektor to "1# Best Theme" Crimson Eagles, so there's no reason to have any lost legions. I don't know who brought it up but the idea that the chambers militant arose from the lost legions is very novel.

>>49817122
beneath contempt doesn't mean beneath notice...

>>49816949
Colour themeing, the concept of assisting worlds after conquering.
The Gene-seed problem of "cancer"/leperacy.

Minor things.

>>49817133
>I don't know who brought it up but the idea that the chambers militant arose from the lost legions is very novel.

The chambers militant don't come from the lost legions. The current plan is that what's left of the Eyes of the Emperor Legion, instead of separating into individual Chapters, becomes the chambers militant for the Inquisition.

>>49817169
And even that is kinda half reversed since the idea of the =][= having the strength of a legion is busted power-wise

>>49817128
I don't follow the question.

>>49817133
The main reason not to fill out the Lost Legions is that the rest of the roster isn't complete. I mean, the Crimson Eagles don't really exist as more than a meme at the moment and for all I know the guy who said he'd write them isn't coming back.

If you look at the history of this project it's full of people pitching an idea an expecting that someone else will write it, or making a start and then leaving. That is the nature of online collaborations and I'm not complaining about it, but I cannot advocate making the target further away.

>>49817157
If you're getting my contempt, you're not beneath it.

>>49817277
>I don't follow the question.
Sorry, the question seemed clear to me. Have you asked any other members of your project to help with anons ideas at any point?

>>49817169
How is that more interesting than the two legions dedicating themselves to fighting chaos and xenos after their Primarchs were taken from them prematurely? How is that more interesting than a legion that never even saw their Primarch? How is that more interesting than a rivalry that transcends the profesional and the chambers militant are engines of pure wrath and vengeance?

>>49817220
The easiest work around is that the !Deathwatch legion is what got BEASTED in lieu of the Imperial Fists, limiting their role to elite strike forces.

The !Grey Knights could have gone full retard after Terra and like Russ, rushed into the Eye of Terror after Terra

>>49817277
>If you're getting my contempt, you're not beneath it.
?

I'm saying the meaning of beneath contempt doesn't actually mean people are so low you ignore them.
But it's hard to see anything beyond the contempt thrown at you, whether or not we are below it in your eyes.
That shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp. But this is 4chan, and we are all of us autists in one way or another, so I can forgive that.

>>49817277
This is why people don't like you

>>49817324
>Have you asked any other members of your project to help with anons ideas at any point?
Good grief. If I could get project members to do things that would be way down the list. Anon is usually a pedantic time-waster, but it's very rewarding when they're not.

>>49817360
See, this is the kind of interesting stuff that we should be thinking about and discussing rather than having arguments about Lumey's level of dickishness.

>>49817277
Also Lumey tone down the snark, you're gonna scare away new contributors

>>49817464
Then let's do so!

>>49817360
I don't think that Deathwatch Legion and Grey Knight Legion are particularly inspired. The method is basically just looting things from the setting to make more Space Marine Legions. One might as well have Imperial Navy Legion (this is a common "idea") or Mechanicum Legion (less common but you'd be surprised how many times I've seen it).

>Beast
Probably not going to happen in the AU, to be honest.

I HAVE RETURNED

Sorry, Hurricane Mathew knocked out the barracks internet, but the Time Warner folks just came and got me back on my feet, so to speak.

So what have I missed? Also I plan to get back on writing those wiki pages. Here they are in case anyone want to integrate them into the broader pages.
>https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Crimson_Eagles
>https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Caligor_Kincaid

Also how does one find the Drawfag Remembrancer? I can't find a DeviantArt or Tumblr or anything

>>49817588
Glad to see you're back. Good luck with getting the pages filled out, other anons have broken themselves trying to do the same.

>>49817562
The Imperial Navy and Mechanicus are already existing forces. Organizations dedicated to combating Chaos and Xenos do not. I only use the terms Grey Knight and Death Watch as short hand in refrence to their function and purpose. They may turn out to be very different than what we are used to or anticipating.

>>Beast
>Probably not going to happen in the AU, to be honest.
Why not?

>>49817588
Are you the Crimson Eagles anon? What did
>>49816030
>>49816111

>>49817513
Well, from my limited understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), there is a hands off policy for the Big E and Malcador, so we probably have some OU Grey Knights chilling on Titan. Of course nothing is stopping them from going full Draigo and getting stuck in the warp to fight eternally so we can deal with that.

Now the Eyes are in semi-limbo, pretty much the only thing that's been agreed is that they don't have a First founding chapter. They probably have successors later, but that still leaves a shittton of assets in Inquisition hands.

One of the rants in a past thread brought up the fact that the Inquisition having so much power initially would be an issue during The Reformation where nobody's keen on seeing another Hektor.

So uh, honestly I'm stumped as to resolve the numbers issue. What does everyone else think?

>>49817647
Grey Knights are formed by Malcador in the OU and we usually keep our hands off his doings. As for organisations dedicated to fighting the Xenos... that's pretty much what the Space Marine Legions were formed to do. Their mission was to drive back the aliens who had enslaved mankind, and you'll find a couple of Legions in the AU that particularly relish the task. So, a Deathwatch-ish Legion would really struggle to stand out.

>Beast
Well, we have the Vetrovnak so we don't need the Beast to fill out the list of wars. I prefer the Space Vampires because they make it easier to avoid copying GW's work with different names.

Plus, they're original content and a point of difference, y'know?

>>49817635
I'll give it a good ole college try. I just ask for a watchful eye and guiding hand when necessary.

>>49817647
I'm assuming you're asking for what he meant. '

He means that the Crimson Eagles have a bloodthirsty American soldier theme. And that's awesome

I appreciate you trying to resurrect my Chambers militant idea, I think there's something of worth to be found in it.

Also I really want a Primarch lost in the warp, tearing shit up with absolutely no idea what;s going on.

>>49817717
>I really want a Primarch lost in the warp, tearing shit up with absolutely no idea what;s going on.
This is most likely what happens to Roman Albrecht from the time of the Scouring on to the unspecified End Times.

>>49817711
Well the two concepts aren't mutually exclusive. We could still do the Beast in a different fashion, for example tactical orks are a retarded concept, this AU beast could be massive orks that simply don't give a fuck what you do to them, they're just gonna bash their way through, none of that fancy taktik stuff.

Also I still feel that the Psycho-pass space vampires aren't that great story-wise but ehh.

>>49817655
>>49817711

Malcador could have saved the !GK legion after seeing their Primarch get sucked into the warp and fighting Daemons. The Emperor would have wanted to purge the legion for knowing WAY too much, but Malcador would have suggested saving them for later, since they demonstrated a resistance to the warp. put them on titan and BOOM Grey Knights with a unique and non mary sue origin.

>>49817360
>How is that more interesting than the two legions dedicating themselves to fighting chaos and xenos after their Primarchs were taken from them prematurely? How is that more interesting than a legion that never even saw their Primarch? How is that more interesting than a rivalry that transcends the profesional and the chambers militant are engines of pure wrath and vengeance?

Never said they were bro-ccoli. Although a Legion that never saw its Primarch would probably be either incorporated into other Legions, or be divided under the command of IA generals.

>>49817711
The Beast is much better than Space Vamps

which is saying something

Cause those books are terrible

>>49817780
>We could still do the Beast in a different fashion
At that point, I think it might be a good idea not to call him "the Beast". Apart from that I'm generally in agreement. The Orks are a problem.

>vampire story
There's an outline of what goes down in the war now. I did the typing but had the Vetrovnak creator and an anon keen on cashing them out on hand to devise the story:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Second_Vetrovnak_Incursion

>>49817791
I'm not going to weigh up on how good an idea this is, but I do want to stress the point that we agreed to keep our hands off Malcador and the Emperor for a reason. At the time, writers were sizing up the deeds of those figures for padding out the stories of their own characters, which would have put us in an awkward spot.

So apparently the Stone Men are marooned outside of the galaxy following the Heresy so they don't get any direct Successors. And the only Chapters that use their geneseed later on are the Ecclesiarchical equivalent of the OU's Inquisition's pet-Chapters.

Soo...That's gonna be a pretty big hump to get over if anyone wants to write Successors for them.

Would The Entombed's writefag mind if I did a Successor for them instead?

>>49817809
I'm not going to argue quality, because that's going to be a bit subjective. I'm saying that Vetrovnak are a better bet than the Beast because someone in the project came up with the Vetrovnak. (Look at it this way: it's the same reason that the Crimson Teeth were a better option for the Hektor Heresy than the Iron Warriors.)

>>49817791
That's not bad, but there's still the issue that a legion is probably 10-100 times larger than a chapter, so a lot of dudes are gonna be purged to get our light black knights down to not broken numbers.

>>49817825
That was a poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was that muh nanites and muh retreat when under fire doesn't make them a very interesting enemy to fight. Still the SoBs may turn the story around so I haven't given up on them yet.

>>49817877
>So apparently the Stone Men are marooned outside of the galaxy following the Heresy so they don't get any direct Successors.
I think you should feel free to change that to make room for your idea.

>>49817888
Tons of Off White Templars could have charged after their Primarch or would have been sucked in with him.

Tack those losses onto those lost through the initial battle and attrition afterwards then put them through the Heresy and have some follow Roman into the Warp to reclaim their own Primarch and that could lead to a chapter sized force more or less.

>>49817894
Yeah, I feel about as comfortable with that idea as I would if someone changed my hypothetical writings to fit in their special snowflake Successor.

I'll probably end up making a Successor for either The Entombed or the War Scribes.

>>49817930
This is pretty much what I said about the Eyes of the Emperor sitting in the same slot.

>>49817943
Ehh I threw my special snowflake loyalist traitor chapter and that got quickly unsnowflaked through feedback so you should do what you want honestly, since nothing is set in stone yet.

>>49817946
Then its up to the others to decide what they like more, I suppose.

So when would have Cal been found, if he was the last Primarch to be found?

>>49817982
Some things are set in jelly. It's best not to jiggle them around too much otherwise the whole course will get very messy.

>>49818036
See https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Great_Crusade_(Hektor_Heresy)#806.M30_to_914.M30:_Discovery_of_the_Lost_Primarchs

If you're going into roughly Camaxtli's slot, that's not last and I think that some of the later Primarch stories make reference to being the "youngest" of the brothers. So... yeah. That's awkward.

>>49818076
It was decided much earlier that Cal is going to be amongst the last to be discovered, one of the causes of his late entry to the civil war, a tipping point in the Heresy.

This was a few other anons ideas, which I support.

However this being the case I won't make him THE dead last, if that will work better

>>49818124
Err. Alright, if it's been decided it's been decided.

>>49818148
Perhaps 900.m30?

>>49818148
>this is not beneath contempt

>>49818160
I didn't take part in the discussion about Cal's placement and I don't know what other writers have invested in the discovery order. If it sounds like I'm washing my hands of this, it's because there may be an argument about this later and I don't want anyone insisting that I'm on their side.

Bump

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I decided to work on my Warhammer-esque fantasy setting instead of this tonight! Cheers!

Praise best girl in the meantime.

I've written the start of a War Scribes Successor Chapter. I'll post what I've written so far, which is their Chapter History.

I don't like the way that it reads so closely, and would prefer it to read like an account instead of a story. Any help in this regard, as well as grammar, spelling, and format advice would be deeply appreciated.

Comments and critiques on the content will only be regularly appreciated. Lol.

>>49820561
>Nero
>Best
Poor taste famalam

>>49820890
Go for it, we won't judge. Much.

>>49820890
I'd be glad to take a look at it when you're finished.

>>49820983
>>49821021
Oh boy. Alright then, here goes nothing.

The Lightherders are a Chapter of Loyalist Space Marines whose origins have been lost in the titanic struggles of the Hektor Heresy and the subsequent Scouring. Claiming to have once been a formation of War Scribes Legionnaires fashioned from the shattered remnants of at least three Chapters following the initial ambushes by the Traitor Legions on their erstwhile brothers, and at that time operating under the appellation: Scriveners of Blood, the Lightherders' official "first contact" with the Imperium of Man follows their emergence from the depths of the Garon Nebula within the Segmentum Tempestus in the early 32'nd Millennium.
Chapter History
Deep within the Segmentum Tempestus, the transmission of a colossal warship into realspace and its barrage of uninteligible communications render entire populations of the nearby Frontier Worlds hysterical. More than one Planetary Governor capitulates their world and services to the invaders soon after, despite a lack of demands, and the subsector devolves into intra-planetary civil wars as loyal Imperial citizens and secessionist rebels battle in the hopes of either consolidating their forces until Imperial reinforcements arrive, or sparing themselves from total annihilation by the inhabitants of the giant that drifts languidly above their planets.
Imperial response to the sudden threat is typically ponderous, but overwhelming. Regiments drawn from the Ardito Highwatch, Motroit Enforcers, and a dozen other Imperial Army formations are spearheaded by two Strike Cruisers full of Scale Bearers and Steel Marshals, and a year-long war sees the Imperial Strike Force easily turn the tide against the rebels and cleanse world after world with seemingly no reaction from the vessel which initially catalyzed the uprisings.

>>49821278
Their planet-side opponents dealt with, the remaining Scale Bearers and Steel Marshals race to the finish the fight and fall upon the warship in a pincer maneuver. Upon closer inspection, however, the warship is discovered to be a dilapidated and heavily damaged Chapter Barque. Refusing to believe that the war which had just recently ravaged an entire sub-sector and claimed millions upon millions of Imperial lives was started by an empty, malfunctioning ship most likely destroyed during the Heresy, the embarassed Space Marines begin hailing the vessel.
A sudden deluge of garbled transmissions layered one on top of the other blasts into the Strike Cruisers' vox receivers, momentarily distracting the Space Marines and defeaning their mortal crewmen. After regaining their senses, the Astartes can scarcely note the growing smell of ozone permeating the bridge before a bruise-colored lightning bolt strikes the ground in front of the Space Marines on each ship, leaving behind a squad of Terminator-clad Astartes glimmering in hoarfrost.
Outmatched, the Space Marines begin to instruct their mortal crews to retreat into their ships' interiors while the Astartes prepare to sell their lives dearly against the foe. Roaring exhortations to one another, the Steel Marshals and Scale Bearers charge the enemies, only to be met with the crossed-hands-over-the-breast Sign of the Aquila. Warily, the Space Marines attempt once more to communicate with their cousins, but are stymied again when the Terminators respond in a pidgin of ancient High and Low Gothic, as well as a third unknown dialect.

>>49821299
Days, and numerous translators later, the Scale Bearers and Steel Marshals, are guided into the Chapter Barque by their Terminator-clad cousins where the remainder of what is now known as the Lightherders Chapter awaited. After clearing the ship of its crew, and towing it the rest of the way back to a station capable of properly housing the titanic spacecraft, the Scale Bearers and Steel Marshals are descended upon by members of the Inquisition, who abscond with the Lightherders following heated verbal exchanges.
A decade of extensive, and invasive, genetic, spiritual, and psychic testing finds the Lightherders well within the parameters of purity, and inheritors of a bizzare amalgamation of the burgeoning Imperial Cult and what was the Bloody Scriveners own Chapter Cult, from which they now derive their name, during what the Lightherders themselves revealed to be a xenocidal, and admittedly suicidal, crusade immediately after the Scouring to recover human worlds at the edge of the Segmentum Tempestus conquered by xenos during the Heresy. What was once a thousand-strong Chapter of War Scribes soon ground themselves down against various xeno species until the Bloody Scriveners overreached into a region of space beyond the light of the Astronomicon.

>>49821317
What awaited the Bloody Scriveners was beyond anything they had ever faced before. The records of the Inquisition regarding this threat, and the Lightherders made it perfectly clear that it was indeed a threat, has been largely expunged. What few words and phrases remains among blacked-out pages are now the only accounts to the Lightherders experiences, such as: "chimeras...effervescent magicks...o defense, our own Librarius disbanded years prior...Beatific...still, for there is strange music...fractal oceans...ate Honored Brother...Lightherders."
The Inquisition formally concluded their investigations into the Lightherders on 099.M32 and lifted the ban on recruitment that had previously constrained the Lightherders to a few hundred Space Marines. Another decade was spent gathering worthy recruits while carefully avoiding the demesnes of other Chapters, and it was not until the middle of the 32'nd Millennium that the Lightherders finally numbered the nominal 1000 Space Marines of a full-strength Chapter.
The next 8 millennia sees the Lightherders largely adopt a policy of consolidation and reinforcement throughout their campaigns. Lacking a homeworld, they are classified as a Crusading Chapter as they ply winding routes through the Segmentums Tempestus and Pacificus on their Chapter Barque, Dawnbreaker. For 8,000 years the Lightherders fight alongside innumerable Imperial Army and PDF units, and oftentimes alone in defense of a myriad Imperial Worlds, their rolls of honor stacked so high as to be able to sink a Strike Cruiser. However, the Lightherders have never strayed far from the watchful eye of the Inquisition, as they incessantly proselytize the Lightherder Cult on every Imperial World they come into contact.

>>49821330
On 999.M40, after a lull in recorded activity, the Chapter Master of the Lightherders, Lukas Katcheves, would travel to Terra to request counsel with the Emperor. But such things are not granted easily, and when the Chapter Master was informed of the time he would have to wait, he instead approached one of the Custodes and handed him a pair of items to be delivered to the Emperor, an unknown musical instrument and a tablet of stone upon which the Oath of Moment of the entire Chapter was carved. One Terran day later the entirety of the Lightherders Chapter would turn away from their normally-travelled space lanes, many leaving from actual battles in the midst of their campaigns, and descend once more into the Garon Nebula from which they emerged.

>>49821341
Well, I'll just say that there's clearly a lot of effort put into the history of the Lightherders. The idea of brothers thought lost coming back isn't particularly original, but you executed it well.

A major issue that I might bring up is that they're kinda too far into the future. At the present we've barely passed the Heresy and just starting the war against donut steel space vamps.

>>49821445
>A major issue that I might bring up is that they're kinda too far into the future. At the present we've barely passed the Heresy and just starting the war against donut steel space vamps.

Well that's actually one of the reasons why they return a polite amount of time after the Incursion. I know that a lot of things are in flux right now and I didn't want to interfere and just dump my OC donut steel Chapter into other people's work.

>>49821937
Your OC Donut Steel guys are much more welcome than these awful Coldsteel space vampires

I hate them

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>>49822000
Space vampires are cool bro. They got an Orwellian PC machine and nanomachines and everything.

>>49822018
Hey Zorg, any thoughts so far on the Lightherders?

On Tuesday, I should have the rest of their Chapter Organization and Chapter Beliefs done, with an explanation of what the Lightherder Cult is, and their version of the Codex: Songs of Interior Man.

>>49822018
Okay, serious question

Are their original creator?

>>49822124
Yup.

>>49822124
Isn't it vetrovnak-anon who made them

>>49822124
>>49822172
Nup.

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>>49821341
>>49821341
>999.M40
Is this supposed to be M40 or M41?

>>49822124
>>49822172
>>49822174
I am the creator of all. The beginning, the end, the middle, the parts between those three. All is Zorg.

Zorg is love, Zorg is life.

No, I'm not the creator of the Vetrovnak. I am Zorg.

>>49822204
>Is this supposed to be M40 or M41?

Ah yes, first of many typos no doubt. That is supposed to be M41. Thanks for catching that.

>>49822204
So creation bias is off the table.

But these snowflakey bastards are insufferable and the sooner they can be removed entirely from the canon the better. Preferably via genocide and/or to the reduction to a footnote

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>>49822412
>So creation bias is off the table.
But I didn't create them.

>But these snowflakey bastards are insufferable and the sooner they can be removed entirely from the canon the better. Preferably via genocide and/or to the reduction to a footnote
I fail to see the snowflakes.

>>49822465
>But I didn't create them
Therefore creation bias is off the table. Viola.

Congratulations; You're dense.

>>49822412
Snowflakes, the Vetrovnak or the Lightherders? Both?

>>49821937
It's easier if you put your stuff into what we're doing now, so that you can take responsibility for the continuity. (There are some issues there already, like Imperial Army in M32 and the coincidence of First Founding Chapters turning out.) I mean, what you've got there already means that anyone wanting to meddle with Ardito and Motroit has to take your stuff into account.

>>49822547
Vampires.

Almost everyone dislikes them save a vocal minority

>>49822583
>Almost everyone dislikes them save a vocal minority
I'm fairly sure it's the other way around. There might be all of two anons spamming their discontent into threads, but the Vetrovnak have been part of the project for a long time and been through periods of intense praise too.

>>49822721
I know you're a condensing autist, but this is flat out blindness.

Its been brought up again and again how awful they are. This isn't a point of argument.

>>49822412
Literally every faction in 40k are snowflakes you fucking dip.

If you don't like it then negotiate, don't demand. That is how everything else has worked in here in the past and I see no reason for it stop now.

>>49822870
>how can you say it's being spammed? It's been brought up again and again!
I'm glad we attract such high-quality trolls. At least you're energetic.

On a non-vampire note, what do you guys think of a high-technology Native American-ish chapter, complete with hilarious run-ins with the Inquisition and Mars due to the heresy of pursuing new technology.

>>49822930
Proceed! I love things that make the AdMech grumpy.

>>49822930
Within reason I hope?


Which, I understand, is kind of a hypocritical question coming from me of all people.

>>49822930
It doesn't really grab me, but most things can be good if they're well-written.

>>49822930
Also do try to narrow it down to a specific branch of the "native american".

>>49822956
Well the original idea was techno-barbarians that escaped the Big E's freedom dick kinda formed their own party with technology and blow, but that's kinda intruding on the space vamp shtick, so instead we get a Chapter from some loyalists which constantly skirts the line with Mars due to the extra upgrades their techmarines keep making

>>49823003
There is no reason to feel like you're stepping on my toes. There's plenty of ways to go super science beyond NANOMACHINES SON.

>>49823012
Nah that's fine. It's much easier to churn out a chapter than a full-fledged enemy faction and I'm lazy.

>>49823012
I want to have the vampfags killed off as soon as possible. How can this happen

>>49823076
Come to think of it the guy who you'd really want to exchange notes with is Arelex. (War Scribes writer.) A lot of the objections that might be leveled against that general concept were raised with his Legion.

>>49824294
What do you mean by objections against the general concept

>>49824997
*(>)

>>49824667
He means that a bunch of people already incorporated those high-technology aspects into their Legions before Arelex could, and they don't want to give it back.

>>49822982
Can any of the Legions trace the "cultural influences" they use to specific clans, tribes, homesteads, etc.?

>>49822963
>most things
>good
>well-written
>this entire project

Are...are you lost or something?

>>49822891

The IA thing is easily fixed, it's only a few letters. And there is no coincidence in those specific Chapters and Regiments turning out, the Scale Bearers and Steel Marshals are the only Space Marines, and the Enforcers and Highwatch the only IG Regiments, listed as operating in the Segmentum Tempestus on the Galaxy Page.

If any one of the Scale Bearers, Steel Marshals, Highwatch, and Enforcers anons want me to change it, then I can just as easily change it to some unspecified Second Founding Chapters and IG Regiments. Which I will most likely do anyway.

Moreover, I'd very much dislike pitting my OC donut steel special snowflakes against your OC donut steel special snowflakes. That won't end well, and so little already does.

>>49825079
I'm pretty sure that Vetrovnak-anon was referring to the people that keep bashing the space vamps, not your Lightherders

Besides, they aren't that snowflakey, unless you really want to make them super unique and special

>>49825212
>Besides, they aren't that snowflakey, unless you really want to make them super unique and special

Oh. Ha! G-good thing I d-don't want to make them unique or special. ;_;

>>49825273
I'm not saying to make them homogeneous chapter #573, just don't have them win every battle through plot armor and deus ex machina

When they fight other snowflakes, let them have genuine consistent weaknesses that can be exploited and have them work to overcome them.

For example, my snowflake chapter has excellent battle tactics but are absolutely average in everything else, not having any notable badasses or skills besides their tactics.

>>49825029
I certainly don't. The War Scribes were pitched in the original thread as the high-tech Legion, well before any other Legion made claims on that conceptual ground.

>>49825079
Sure, I totally see why you picked those units, I was just pointing out that it might cause issues for other people. (As I wrote Ardito and Motroit, I can tell you that the Highwatch are a safe bet. The Enforcers feel like the sort of thing that wouldn't last far into the Reformed Imperium but there's no definite plan.)

My advice for the chapters is to invent them. There's no need to give them an in-depth profile on the wiki, though - just name them and maybe put them on the list of Imperials active in the Segmentum. You'd be surprised how many good things come out of that method.

>>49825273
Super unique and special things are fine. If you want them to be super-awesome and way better than the rest of the Astartes, go for it. Just remember that it's a GrimDark universe and have the Imperium pig-headedly devour its most promising children.

>>49825401
The tentatively named 'Endless Guard' will be a War Scribes successor so it's all good, assuming Arelex gives the okay

>>49825305
>I'm not saying to make them homogeneous chapter #573, just don't have them win every battle through plot armor and deus ex machina

I was just kidding, the Lightherders are very much mortal, at the end of the day.

>When they fight other snowflakes, let them have genuine consistent weaknesses that can be exploited and have them work to overcome them.

They certainly do have weaknesses, I only hope people are as accepting of their strengths.

>For example, my snowflake chapter has excellent battle tactics but are absolutely average in everything else, not having any notable badasses or skills besides their tactics.

What else is there but battle tactics for Space Marines?

>>49825431
Arelex generally likes Successors, so you should be fine.

>>49825401
>The War Scribes were pitched in the original thread as the high-tech Legion, well before any other Legion made claims on that conceptual ground.

No other Legion explicitly laid claims, but they still placed Dark Angels/Iron Hands levels of technology in their organizations/tactics/special equipment, to the extent that being the "High-Tech" Legion is no longer feasible unless they go balls-to-the-walls.

>>49825476
I know that's not true of all them and really all I can think of off the top of my head is the Heralds getting the Dark Angels' "First Legion, First Gear" trope. Can you be specific about the problematic Legions?

>>49825544
>Can you be specific about the problematic Legions?

The Steel Marshals, Stone Men, and Iron Rangers.

>>49825465
Has Arelex been in thread? Do you know what he thinks so far about the Lightherders?

>>49825401
>Super unique and special things are fine. If you want them to be super-awesome and way better than the rest of the Astartes, go for it. Just remember that it's a GrimDark universe and have the Imperium pig-headedly devour its most promising children.

Nah, they won't be anything so ridiculous. I'm going more for strange and creepy, rather than super-awesome and way better than the rest of the Astartes.

>>49825770
He mentioned that he would take a look once you were done, so don't worry about that.

>>49826218
Great, thanks!

bump

>>49825760
Hmmm. I see what you mean.

I can probably get away with rephrasing the Steel Marshals section into a "they have cool kit like the other Legions" story. Changes to the Stone Men & Iron Rangers would rely on persuading other writers that it's an issue that they should take seriously.

>>49827134

>>49827134

Alright, I want to get some ideas going for Eternal Zealots.

Throw me anything.
Questions, etc?

>>49825770
>>49826382
When I messaged last night, I made the terrible mistake of forgetting that it was in fact a work day tomorrow, and that I was in fact a dumbass for not having already been in bed, lol.

But, I'm back home from work now.


>>49821278
Seems ok.

>>49821299
I don't think "Chapter Barques/Barges" are as large as what you described in the previous post. Remember, in the 32nd Millennium, the Imperium is still relatively familiar with large-scale conflict like the Heresy. I find it a little hard to imagine a scenario in which a derelict ship causes multiple planets to secede from the Imperium just by being around. Also:

>Scribes and Scribe Successors
>Ever using teleporters for any reason

This is not to say you can't use those items, but it would imply that these guys are to the Scribes something akin to that rare handful of Ultramarine Successors who don't adhere to the Codex.

>>49821317
The translation bit seems a little odd. As a general rule, Scribes don't forget things like language. And the 32nd Millennium is only a couple generations of Marines removed from the Legions. Language wouldn't naturally diverge so rapidly.

Now, if there's an *unnatural* reason, by all means go for it.

>>49821330
>Librarius

Definitely on the extreme end of the Scribes scale, then.

>>49821341
Seems fine to me.


So the tl;dr that I'm getting from this is that you should probably write them as the remnants of a Wandering Chapter. By their very nature, they're Scribes who tend to be out in strange places, sometimes doing strange things. If there was to be a Chapter or two of Scribes that decided their need to utilize psychic tools was great enough to break with tradition, it would probably be among their number.

Like he says >>49821445 the "time-torn wanderers" isn't the most innovative thing in the world, but that's hardly a damning concept. Hell, I wrote a story for the Mourning Sons way back in the day, and they were time traveling Word Bearers, lol.

>>49825029
Not exactly. The biggest thing I caught a lot of flak for was that people kept saying my first draft of the Scribes was basically the AdMech Marines, and that 90% of what I wrote for them could have just as easily been a strike force of Skitarii and Magi or what have you. I was also told that they just weren't very "Marine-y".

>>49825431
Go for it, let's see what you've got to offer.

>>49825476
>balls to the walls
Heh. My *very* first desire was basically that. Archaeotech: The Legioning. I got so paranoid about people shitting on me for powergaming even before I said *anything* that I was already toning it down before I even started, lol.

Bump

>>49830643
>>49830713
>Endless guard have a librarius as well
FUCK

At least their librarians are pariahs amongst their own tech-obssessed brothers, a byproduct of the customs of their recruiting world

>>49832297
Hey, I don't blame you for doing that. Space Marines employ Librarians generally, it's one of their things.

Arelex HATING THEM WITH A BURNING FURY was mostly an experiment on my part to go against tropes I usually employ.

>>49832293

>>49832377
All good, there's gonna be an 'incident' which sees the librarius being formed and certain changes to the chapter. As soon as I get around to writing it of course.

>>49834237
Sounds like a plan!

>>49830643
Thank you!

>I don't think "Chapter Barques/Barges" are as large as what you described in the previous post. Remember, in the 32nd Millennium, the Imperium is still relatively familiar with large-scale conflict like the Heresy. I find it a little hard to imagine a scenario in which a derelict ship causes multiple planets to secede from the Imperium just by being around.

Familiarity does not always mean acclimatization, especially for Frontier Worlds populated by penal colonies, criminals, and the other dregs of society that either chose to live as far from Imperial authority as possible, or were forced to.

>Scribes and Scribe Successors
>Ever using teleporters for any reason

I wasn't aware that the War Scribes had a proscription against teleporters. Why would they?

>The translation bit seems a little odd. As a general rule, Scribes don't forget things like language. And the 32nd Millennium is only a couple generations of Marines removed from the Legions. Language wouldn't naturally diverge so rapidly.

Hmmm...Would it be better then, if the reason that the Second Founding Chapters that first contact the Lightherders can't understand them is because they had all taken to speaking the native languages of the Atlantanos Worlds instead of the traditional Low Gothic?

>Librarius
>Definitely on the extreme end of the Scribes scale, then.

I admit that was a mistake on my part. The War Scribes Chapter that first disappeared into Segmentum Tempestus, never had any Librarians, but the Lightherders that return do. I just want to make it clear that they started out as proper War Scribes.

>...you should probably write them as the remnants of a Wandering Chapter. By their very nature, they're Scribes who tend to be out in strange places, sometimes doing strange things.

Ah sorry, but I much prefer them starting out as the bloodied War Scribes veterans who end up disappearing after the Scouring, and come back changed into something else.

>>49825401
>My advice for the chapters is to invent them. There's no need to give them an in-depth profile on the wiki, though - just name them and maybe put them on the list of Imperials active in the Segmentum. You'd be surprised how many good things come out of that method.

The Steel Marshals and Scale Bearers already have a number of Successor Chapters on their page, would you mind if I just used one of those?

>>49835422
Also, the Lightherders' "Librarians" are going to be the snowflakiest things about them. Sorry Arelex, if it makes you feel any better they're about as big a psyker as the Space Wolves' Rune Priests. I'm kidding

>>49835617
Seems ok.

>>49835422
No/minimal use of the Warp, both in terms of psykers and psychic tools. Same thing with using xenos gear.

>native languages of the Atlantanos Worlds

There really aren't any. The vast majority of the Atalantos Worlds were settled by people from elsewhere, the Galactic Core isn't known for having much native life. Supernovae and all that, you know.

And if you prefer the bloodied veterans thing, I guess that's ok. But that does mean you probably need to think up a solid reason for why otherwise "normal" members of the Legion/Chapter change so much.

>>49835888
>There really aren't any. The vast majority of the Atalantos Worlds were settled by people from elsewhere

Whatever languages the peoples who settle it would be the native languages of the Atlantos Worlds, no?

>But that does mean you probably need to think up a solid reason for why otherwise "normal" members of the Legion/Chapter change so much.

I'm trying to find a balance between a solid reason, and keeping the monsters that both slaughtered and changed the War Scribes Legionnaires into the Lightherders a mystery.

>>49836055
Well yeah, those native languages would be Low Gothic, lol.

As far as the why we change thing goes, I'm not giving you orders, just thinking out loud. If you think you can find a balance, go for it.

>>49836202
>Well yeah, those native languages would be Low Gothic, lol.

Dang, I'll think of something. Tomorrow early evening I'll have their Chapter organization and Beliefs done.

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This weekend I'll work on the Markian Corps!

My weekend starts tomorrow for me, and it's three days.

>>49837386
How is it the weekend when it's perfectly in the middle of the week

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>>49837441
GATE GUARD, BITCHES

>>49809767
>>49812022
I know I said I wanted a moustache, but come on now.

>>49838326
Are you hating on the pringles stache and my l33t photoshop skills? C'mon man

>>49838369
The Hitler stache just isn't long enough, bro.

>>49838559
Oh all I did was the pringles stache, someone else did the hitlerstache

>>49838641
I assumed they were both done by the same party. After all, once you pop, you just can't stop.

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VOIDWATCHER = NAGASH

Has Drawfag the Remembrancer been around these threads? I've been wondering what he's up to.

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>>49839991
Honestly I think people scared him off when a bunch of people came out of the woodwork with requests.

I'm probably wrong and he's just busy/working on it, but that's how I would feel.

>>49840012
I could imagine. Hope he hasn't completely gone though, I think we all greatly enjoy his work.

bump

>>49840012
It's not very classy to rush artists, but Drawfag has been bombarded with requests before and still come back. I think it's more likely that he's just working.

I can't come up with a better namefag than what it currently is, so I'm sticking with that.

tried reading through, but I'm tired as fuck and still waking up. Somebody let me know what's happened over the past...however long...has it been a week?

Caught this little snippet:
>>49816969
>most of the writers seem to consider anon to be beneath their contempt and hardly even talk to you guys
I don't think this is completely true so much as when many of the writers get on a tangent for a particular discussion it becomes difficult to switch gears or questions get lost in the vast sea of inconsequential arguments. I know I generally try to answer questions as best I can, sometimes I'm wrong, other times I'm VERY wrong, and every so often I manage to fuck up my streak and get something right. Also,

>>49815939
Yes, we've got the IR (NE woods NA) and SB (Plains), but either I did a good job at not making them planet of hats or something, so they're not attributed. I'd like to think I did something right, and just managed to make it more subtle bits woven in there with a more tribalistic structure to tie the theme down that people easily skip over, but maybe I just buggered it all to hell and it gets completely lost in the mix.

Aside from that, >>49816030

>>49841725
That's what I was hoping for and expecting. I hope he knows that nobody is trying to push him to do anything.

>>49841846
Latest news is that two anons are each making War Scribes Successors: the Lightherders and the Eternal Guard.

The Lightherders' tentative rough-draft of a Chapter History are these posts
>>49821278
>>49821299
>>49821317
>>49821330
>>49821341

No further information on the Eternal Guard other than that the anon was thinking about making them particularly high-tech with NA influences.

Would it be rude to plop in a small warband of a sorts at this point in time?

>>49842058
Of course not.

>>49842058
Whatchu got?

>>49841980
I just forget to namefag a lot since the catalog glitches out when I don't use incognito. I'm pretty new so nobody probably knows me anyway.

Moving on, new plan, the Eternal Guard are now the Marines Endless. I suddenly got swamped with deadlines so uh, further info is a long way off.

>>49842136
Dammit.Depending on where you went with the Eternal Guard, that was close to what I had in mind originally with the Iron Rangers way back in thread 0, and that idea gets full support.

Aside from that, take your time.

>>49842204
The Marines Endless are pretty much a massive homage to a comic book, so that may not happen.

Bonus points for anyone who can figure out the reference.

>>49827262
What's the issue in question?

If it's tech level, they have power spears and a single prototype powerfist that got scrapped because it was a dumb idea, but one guy thought it was really cool and kept it. Aside from that, they're kind of at the low end of the tech spectrum for the Astartes.

>>49835482
>Scale Bearers successors

I do have plans for the Knights Saurian (Heavy Mech with lots of tanks/artillery using similar tactics to the original), Violet Serpents (JUMP PACKS), and Fire Breathers (will be moved to 2nd founding, and will be a bunch of guys who can't get over their Primarch's death, so they go apeshit after chaos all the time)

>>49842069
I was just worried about oversaturation, figured it'd be best to ask.

>>49842096
It's more a concept than anything I've entirely thought out as is, though I was thinking about a Khornate warband with few actual Marines who each function as a teacher, spiritual guide, and general mentors to the mortals who they train to fight for them while they foster a certain esprit de corps as they instruct them in the more valiant, noble aspects of war. Though it would all still be in the name of near senseless bloodshed for Khorne. I suppose it would be their own semi-warped sense of what is good and just in warfare.
I was thinking that the marines would be less about fighting directly themselves because of their low numbers, and would prefer creating conflict in the universe indirectly and only fight in special forces esque teams if need be. A certain focus on the theological aspects of Chaos as well, and proselytizing.
Though having it written down, I'm not sure if it's too sue-ish or just a bad concept.

>>49835482
>>49842444
Sorry, forgot to end that statement. If you want to write up one of the others and change things around to 2nd founding, that's fine.

Those three are picked because I want to both demonstrate how factionalized the SB become after their Primarch's death and show that these guys are adapting their Primarchs ideas to fit other tools of warfare.

>>49842451
I like it and don't think it's too much Sue.

Write up a bit more and give us a better idea of who they are (The Lightherders bit above is a good example of this).

>>49842375
The sections on armour and special equipment struck me as signifying better than average kit. You might want to call out the anon who was angry about it for a more lengthy answer.

>>49836055
>>49836202
From what I can tell, "Low Gothic" isn't a single language so much as it is a massive collection of languages and dialects that all get put under that title as a separation between what commoners vs nobility speaks.

>>49842498
>>49842498
Ah. Well, that was meant to be a "we hate MkIII and below because it's not very mobile," more than anything else. And they to love to scavenge them some Mk VI after the Heresy. Aside from that, I think it should have a mention that possibly they get more suits due to connections with Hektor.

As for weapons, a lot of the stories and writing does seem to point towards Legions rocking almost whatever they want. And the higher number of special/heavy weapons (partially because smaller squad sizes) could be attributed to them being possibly the numerically smallest Legion, with at most about 35-40k marines.

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>>49811153
So what's the current status of the Black Augurs?

>>49842544
>numbers
IIRC, the "official" number of troops was 25k, the higher number is there because Merrill does shit way off the books and doesn't report what he doesn't want to.

>>49842553
Yes.

>>49842544
I don't think the weapons section was particularly significant, but the special equipment did seem to be pretty outlandish.

Again, this is something that was pointed out to me and got an "OK, I see your point," rather than a complaint that I was raising myself.

>>49842565
Yes what?

>>49842489
Naturally, I've just got a hankering for creating a warband, but I'll work on it some.

>>49842636
Okay, I was extrapolating and trying to understand where the issue lies or where it needs better/further explanation as a general statement, not specifically calling you out.

>>49842655
Sorry, old habit of saying I'm not sure at the moment.

>>49842553
Sorry for not replying sooner. I haven't heard anything new, so I think they're still looking at a probable change in tone.

>>49843469
Last I knew, it was in talks to make them more space necromancers and less space skaven, but there was little discussion as to how. Any advancements there?

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>>49843622
I thought it was Space Chosen/Blackguards? Just with the Voidwatcher somehow coming back in the Endtimes as Necrodermis-Nagash

>>49843639
I've been gone for a week, remember the Necrodermis Nagash bit, but I'm wondering if anything else has advanced.

bump.

>>49843622
It seems to me that the most significant change on the table is afflicting Voidwatcher with mortality (due to his experimentation with the Warp).

is bumping even worth it anymore?

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>>49845972
People don't usually come on until around 6 pm.

>>49845972
Aside from the weekends, I am never home before 4:15pm, EST, and usually I'm not chillaxed enough to post on a Chechnyan arts and crafts board before 4:45 or 5.

So if you're looking for me to be around during the day during the working week, that's probably not a good bet, lol.

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I like this filter.

Maybe we should put some artwork through it?

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>>49848599

>>49849070
Alexandri is appropriate in the one.

Well, I already know that the best way to draw people out of the woodwork is to post something completely wrong or ridiculous. So I might a well start posting the rough-draft of the Lightherders' Chapter Beliefs and Organization.

Bump

>>49850670
Content/shitposting is always good

That's how we got Santa Claus Vaul one time

>>49850698
Be careful what you wish for.

The presence of Chapter-specific belief systems among the Adeptus Astartes tends to be the rule rather than the exception. Oftentimes these Chapter Cults are products of the cultures from which the Chapter most takes promising young warriors for induction into their ranks. These Cults varyingly inform and influence the Chapters' attitudes within and without the battlefield, but none come close to the hold which the Lightherder Cult has on the Astartes who practice it.

The Lightherder Cult in daily practice is largely inoffensive, if bizzare. Espousing an ascetic, magnanimous lifestyle and demanding of its adherents the utter cessation of bodily movements and verbal conversations beyond only the most vital of functions and communications. And to do even those with the least amount of movement and sound possible, in sympathetic deference to the condition of the God-Emperor. Taken to its logical superhuman extremes of the Space Marines, and the Lightherders are universally noted as laconic, quiet Astartes for whom even each blink of the eye is performed with forethought and an uncanny deliberacy. No wasted movement, no excess sound beyond that which cannot be helped.

The infamous tome from which the Lightherders derive all their practices, The Songs of Interior Man, is more than the codified writings of the Lightherders' entire belief system. Within its pages is the entire history of the Lightherders, including the complete aggregation of journals, memoirs, notes, details, and advice regarding the Scriveners of Blood's experiences beyond the light of the Astronomicon and the extreme, eventually transformative measures they put into practice to endure the horrors they faced.

Alright, I hope to get more done with the Scale Bearers tonight. For the sake of transparency and clearing the air with the statements made >>49842444
>>49842489
I'd like to publicly, here, state what I've got in mind for them.

During the battle where Tiran dies, their chain of command is fucked nine ways from sunday and their troops are scattered and disorganized. The majority of their stock of Sors is killed off. Their recruits are almost entirely killed. And much of their center of operations is destroyed.

Over the next year or so, the major players of the Legion are too busy trying to determine exactly how much damage was caused, get their fleet back, make sure they have all their living troops, etc. Which then turns into a bit of an issue among the Legion of deciding what to do next. You have 2 major factions who become the loudest and most vocal: Those who believe Tiran's vision is most important, and that they should slowly rebuild, and those who believe they should immediately strike out and take on the enemy face on. A third faction, one that is willing to listen to both parties, winds up taking control. They make a compromise of essentially rushing candidates through the Astartes program to make up for their losses, essentially cutting every corner that they can to make sure they get troops out in time.

Perhaps we have a few SB make it to Terra, this has been suggested, I'm not opposed.

Regardless, they manage to get back to fighting strength by the time of the Scouring, take to the field in one campaign which they fail magnificently, and help Alexandri push the IR from the Galaxy and purge their homeworld.

Once that is done, the factions rise again, with many believing their vengeance temporarily satisfied, and should return to Tiran's teachings. A minority believes that this is not enough, and vocally push themselves and try to push the Legion into every conflict possible to eliminate the Chaos taint from realspace.

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>>49851051
Sounds good.

>They make a compromise of essentially rushing candidates through the Astartes program to make up for their losses, essentially cutting every corner that they can to make sure they get troops out in time.

That didn't turn out so well for the Raven Guard.

>>49851051
When the Codex Astartes comes out, the Legion adopts it readily, as it solves various issues. The vengeance faction leaves voluntarily to become the Fire Breathers, and largely disown their brothers for not properly avenging Tiran. FWIW, the rest of the Legion feels pity for the FB, as they are so consumed with hatred and a need for revenge that they cannot rekindle what truly made Tiran's troops remarkable.

As for those who felt varying degrees of a desire to maintain Tiran's teachings, you have a major split between those who believed speed was the key element of his strategies (They stay the SB Chapter and keep with bikes) and those who believe that firepower was major (they go on to become the heavy mech Chapter). The SB still have too many troops, and so they boot out a third Chapter, who are left with reduced equipment. In response, they grab jump packs that the Legion had stowed away and decide to apply Tiran's teachings to that angle (and it winds up just about being canon Raven Guard, though they get the idea from a different direction).

Sound good to everyone?

As to this:
>>49850720
Sounds good to me.

>>49851125
>Doesn't work for RG
Well, it wasn't going to be as haphazardly done as with them, but still a rush job. And it's very clearly a temporary fix.
The individual in question steps down voluntarily from the Legion Master after everything happens because he's basically compromised everything he believes in. That being said, he is kept around as a consul and eventually voluntarily interred in a dreadnought.

>>49851160
Nice, more of an Iron Hands kind of almost-political split rather than Chapters largely staying together and just going on their own. I like it.

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Whelp, Didn't save what I wrote about the Markian Corps facing up against Nurglite daemons and PDF when coincidentally a virus made me reboot my computer, so I guess I'm not writing that tonight.

>>49851408
Don't you love it when that happens?

>>49851320
Well, I thought it was more natural as to how things go down when a Legion loses their Primarch. How GW had it happen for the Blood Angels kinda made sense within its own context, but I still think losing your Primarch would cause some arguments within the Legion as to who should properly follow him and what his ideals were.

As I've been trying to give the SB a more tribalistic command structure (yet utterly failing to satisfactorily nail down the concept yet), and the fact that their command structure gets broken horribly, I think such an issue would be both inevitable and probably wind up being a bit more severe an issue than in (some) other Legions.

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>>49851408

Alright, Task and Org for the SB is (tentatively) good. I'm not sure I need a whole lot more detail for the Chapter/Legion level makeup than the general details, so I'll leave it at that for now. If it needs more, let me know.

Next up will be discussing progression through the ranks, followed by filling in the blanks in the history, and a few quick blurbs about the Second Founding Chapters.

Feel free to sort through and give feedback.

You know what this setting needs? Gojira.

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>>49851689
Damn. I was going to say more snakes.

>>49851755
That too, and I got a knight house in the bag for that, but not right now.

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BEHOLD

YOUR GOD

The order of battle of the Lightherders Chapter is surprisingly in keeping with the dictates of the Institutorum Astartes, by Lightherders standards. This inevitably misleads many of those with whom they fight alongside to behave around and treat the Lightherders as normal Astartes, only to be later appalled at their behavior and practices outside the battlefield.
The Lightherders Chapter organization diverges from the strictures of the Institutorum-Astartes only in the configuration of the Chapter's Veteran 1'st Company, led personally by Harbinger Lukas Katcheves, and the Chapter's considerable bias towards the procurement of certain kinds of weaponry and equipment and their application on the battlefield over a more well-rounded and tactically flexible armory.
Arrayed in ten Communes broadly resembling the standard Veteran, Tactical, Reserve, and Scout Companies, the Lightherders nonetheless do not respond to threats against the Imperium as a typical Chapter would. Instead of fashioning purpose-made strike forces from their Companies, the Communes have always tended towards engaging the enemy force as singular bodies in overwhelmingly crushing blows from which only the strongest enemies of the Imperium rise to be struck a second time.
Unlike their manner of warfare, the composition and proportion of war material amongst the Communes' armories are widely varied. Due to their sudden appearance onto the Imperium, the Lightherders lacked the traditional infrastructural and material foundations provided for Space Marine Chapters by the Administratum. And their early history in the Imperium is marked by their attempts, successful and otherwise, in developing relationships with Forge Worlds, the Adeptus Mechanicus, and even Rogue Traders to properly arm and supply themselves. Because of this, the quality and quantity of the Lightherders' weaponry and equipment can vary wildly from Commune to Commune, and even from squad to squad within a Commune.

>>49853436

This lack of abundance, combined with the Lightherders' experiences beyond the known Galaxy, has led them to modify the dissemination of what few suits of Terminator armor the Chapter has access to. Rather than equipping as many of the veteran Commune of the Flowering Teeth in these priceless suits as possible, the Lightbringers instead issue these tremendously powerful and protective masterpieces to their Captains and specialist-officers; reasoning that the loss of even a veteran Space Marine for lack of such armor might jeopardize a tactical objective, but the loss of a Captain, Illuminator, Lightbearer, or Keeper of the Light degrades the strategic capabilities of the Chapter as a whole.

The Commune of the Flowering Teeth, incapable of functioning in the same way as the Veteran Companies of traditional Chapters, is then configured and functions in the exact same way as a regular Battle Company with six Tactical squads, and two squads each of Devastators and Assault Marines. Despite their lack of Terminator armor however, the Commune of the Flowering Teeth is still the best-equipped of all the Lightherders, for their primacy in both combat and intra-Chapter politics gives them access to all of the Chapter's armories and armour pools.

>>49853452

Specialty Ranks and Formations

The Lightherders Chapter uses different nomenclature in reference to its Company-level formation and specialist-officers than do typical Chapters because they draw from The Songs of Interior Man's chiefly light-based naming conventions instead of the Institutorum-Astartes' to denote their special respect for the responsibilities of these men, and the true nature of these formations.
⦁ Harbinger of Light- The Chapter Master of the Lightherders. Harbinger Lukas Katcheves currently leads the Lightherders Chapter.
⦁ Commune- The Lightherders refer to each of their ten, Company-equivalent formations as a Commune. They do not use a numbering system, but instead use sobriquets that either preceed or proceed after the title Commune in order to differentiate them. The Commune of the Fractal Ocean corresponds to a standard Battle Company while the Commune of the Flowering Teeth is the Lightherders Veteran Company-equivalent.
⦁ Lightbearer- The Lightbearers serve as the Chapter's Librarians, and their first line of defense against the sorceries of the Heretic and the Alien.
⦁ Illuminator- The Illuminators serve as the Chapter's Chaplains, whose mere presence on the battlefield dispels any doubt or fear in the hearts and minds of his brothers, and whose actions dispel any fantasy of victory for their foes.
⦁ Keepers of the Light- The Keepers of the Light serve as the Chapter's Apothecaries, who ensure the future both of the Chapter and the Lightherder Cult.

>>49853436
>>49853452
>>49853463
I like it. Honestly it's not as out there and crazy as you made it sound, but a well-crafted chapter anyway. If most people think it's fine you should put it up on 1d4chan.

bump

>>49853436
>>49853452
>>49853463
Sounds good so far, keep up the good work.

>>49852852
>>49852838
Just doesn't do it for Lumey or Golgothos.
For the one, the difference in shading causes some obvious issues with the filter.
For the second, much of the skulls and other details work fine, but some of the bits around the forehead of the skull just don't work like stained glass anymore.

>>49855144
Is it just me or are the SB pretty much a legion of Lamenters. Everywhere they go they suffer.

>>49855542
They get some shit sent their way during the Heresy and Scouring, but off like to see them turn that around afterwards.

>>49855595
I'd*like to see.
Sorry, posting from a phone.

bump

>>49851125
>>49851160
Looking back and realizing I didn't properly answer the question.

They don't go as far as Corax did, but they do wind up with a lot of sub-par Astartes out of the mix due to a reliance on hypno training and other time-cutting measures, plus they completely screw up their recruitment pool on Solnhofen for decades afterwards. Most of the new recruits wind up dying fairly quickly during the assault of Profi Tiroedd and the whole fiasco is considered a massive failure in both effectiveness and ethics.

>>49856433
Have you considered the idea that the Legion "dumps" its left-over bad recruits into one Chapter during the Reformation?

>>49856718
Not until now, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. It makes a certain kind of sense, but I'm not sure the sons of Tiran would do that, as they're basically setting up an entire Chapter for failure.
I will have to ponder that further.

>>49856819
On the other hand, I could let the guy who steps down and those who helped implement the changes take over as a way to rectify their mistakes, and turn this batch around into something deserving the Sons of Tiran mantle.

>>49856819
>>49856859
It would be heartwarming if these failures end up as decorated and beloved servants of the Imperium, since their experiences lead them to have greater empathy for the common man, as well as a burning desire to not fail again.

>>49857046
Heart-warming, but not exactly grimdark.

>>49857078
There is also the possibility that they get nommed by Tyranids or something

Besides, you need some levity to break through the grimdarkness once in a while so that when it gets bad you know it's bad. Once everything is edges, you kinda get used to it.

Did you guys ever discuss what draws the 'Nids to the universe? In the OU it's explained to be because of the Pharos device and the Imperium Secundus. What does it in this AU?

>>49857724
desu i don't even think we actually have nids in yet. They are conspicuously absent from the xenos page and nobody's actually written up much about them, aside from maybe some minor references in random pages

>>49857078
If everything is grimdark all the time, it loses its effect though. Small victories make major defeats more impactful.

>>49857801
Nope, we haven't gotten to Nids. Don't think that they need much changing, though. And I like the old story of "possibly running from something worse."

>>49857078
>>49857161
>>49857724
If that's too far off, we can have them die off valiantly holding off the Vetro during during a massive retreat during the second incursion. It allows them to get Heroes of the Imperium status while simultaneously dying horrible deaths.

Or we can have them continue to kick around, either/or. I was thinking earlier that it would make sense to just overwrite the ideas presented for the Violet Serpents >>49842451 and apply it here. It's the leftover chapter, filled with Astartes not quite ready to be marines, so it would make sense that they'd get the leftover equipment (jump packs) and a high level of scouts that would be necessary to lure enemies in/find them for said jump packs to attack. Mix in a heavy dose of Devastators after some time, and you've got yourself a(n oddball) Chapter.

Bump

bump again

>>49838326
>>49838559
Don't worry, there are plenty of other staches to be had. I've got a lot of shit going on right now at work, so I won't have much time for drawfagging for the next week or so, but I'll keep posting the generally absurd mustaches that I've done thus far whenever I have time.

Bump

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I just finished a math exam

I made an 84 Better than the 56 I made last semester

Who here wants shit read or written hit me up

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>>49863961
Write me a Christmas story, daddy!

>>49864565
no

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By the way Brennus, what kind of mustache did you actually want? I know you specified but I kind of forgot.

>>49864828
Rememberancer?

>>49864905
Nope.

>>49864828
I checked the archive for you
>Long, braided mustache. At least as long as his beard, and twined with fetishes and runestones.

>>49866027
Cool, thanks. Looked but couldn't find it.

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Trying to match another artist's style is hard.

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>>49867147

Fuck me sideways I'm tired and sore. I have a meal in front of me, but don't have the energy to actually eat the fucker.

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Finally found some time to write.

"The boundaries of mankind shall be endless." Captain Qaletaqa, 4th expedition fleet following the Second Sagittarius Crusade

The Endless Sons were a Codex-compliant successor of the War Scribes, formed from veterans that wished to continue the compliance crusades of the past. While originally strict adherents to the teachings of their primarch Arelex Orannis, events that occurred in the reclamation of Forge World Erza have seen the chapter withdraw into seclusion.

Chapter History
The Endless Sons were formed in the Second/Third (still unsure) Founding under the command of Chapter Master Qaletaqa and given a singular purpose - to brings far-flung worlds into compliance just as the Expedition Fleets of the Great Crusade did. This was a job taken on with relish by the genesons of Orannis, eager to continue the work of their past legion in uncovering ancient human technology.

In the first hundred years following their founding, the Endless Sons forged a slow but steady path towards the edge of the Ultima Segmentum, bringing hundreds of rogue worlds into Imperial compliance with minimal bloodshed. All that the Endless Sons stood for would change as they acted to pacify the forgotten Forge World of Ezra. Defense systems thought to be long abandoned flared to life, bringing the mighty battleship Virtuous Destiny crashing down surfacewise. The ensuing battle for control of Erza would last for months and led to the formation of Spiritspeakers, the Librarius equivalent of the Endless Sons.

>>49869126
Following the pacification of Erza, the Endless Sons stopped their expedition crusade and went into seclusion, undoubtedly exploring the hidden secrets of the long-lost Forge World. Those fifty years would also see the construction of the fortress-monastery Citadel Mechanicus, the wandering Endless Sons had finally found a home.

It would be over 50 standard years before the Endless Sons saw combat again, sending small squads of battle-brothers equipped with full-body forcefields and attack drones. These battle-brothers would also bring the support of Ezran Skitarii forces, each Endless Son seemingly acting as commander to the Skitarii.

Besides these isolated squads, the bulk of the Endless Sons have not been sighted anyway else in the galaxy. The Spiritspeakers, the powerful librarians of the chapter have been observed bringing new worlds into compliance, continuing the original mission of the Endless Sons.

Led by Chief Spiritspeaker Cheveyo, these battle-brothers forge a separate path from the rest of their chapter, one that is both closer and further from the oaths of Arelex Orannis simultaneously.

In 672.M31, the Inquisitor Ava Solomon begins to investigate the Endless Sons, suspecting them of heresy against the Imperium. The results of her investigation would shed new light into the changes made by the Endless Sons following the pacification of Erza.

Bump

Friendly bump

>>49869126
>>49869134
Not too sure about this stuff. Giving every squad force fields seems a bit too much, and drones starts to get into some Heretek territory.

I'm also not sure, but I think there's some stuff out there that clearly separate the AdMech and the AdAstartes because obvious shenanigans during the Heresy. I think having a working relationship with a specific Forge World can be fine, but their partnership should probably be minimalized.

>>49871815
Well the implication is kinda that they are sliding into serious heresy yeah and that they are probably either gonna destroyed or go renegade.

Good point on the forcefields though

bump

I just realized that, with its roots in pre-Crusade Markia, the Markian Corps is probably oldest Imperial Guard regiment in the Imperium

>>49873787
I'm sure that there's a notable regiment among the Corps that makes such a claim, though undoubtedly there are other claimants.

>>49873925
There could be, but the only one that comes to mind are Exirans and Chelob Hammerers.

Anyway, hopefully popups that I can't exit out of won't stop me from writing about Anorexia.

>>49873787
If I ever finish the Vulpis Canem, they technically date back to the long night.

>>49874038
Will you though?

>>49874066
I dunno. People either loved them or hated them. If you want to pick them up, have at it. I was trying to create something that would lead to a Hektor Heresy variant of the Death Korps.

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So I'm writing about Anorexia, and I'm describing her hideous form and her twisted love, and I'm writing about how she makes the 100th Markian Army love her with her generosity, and suddenly this phrase pops into my mind.

"Ara ara~"

Well then. At least I know how to kill my boner now.

I'm back with four missing wisdom teeth.

My plan for the next two days is to make a real bones outline on the Ealges and Cal's page, have them approved by you guys, then flesh them out and be done with them

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>>49874947
>Writing AFTER he gets his wisdom teeth removed.

So on one of the past threads someone mentioned that the War Scribes are gangsters. Is this true?

And would anyone mind if I incorporated this into Lightherders organization and doctrine to make them more of a gang/cult hybrid?

>>49875170
I'm nothing if not masochistic

>>49864565
Why does this exist?

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>>49875347
What do you mean? Brennus Claus isn't real!

Fellas I need help

I'm not sure how to equip Cal or what would happen to him after he burns Bravig to the Ground

>>49876270
>how to equip Cal
Going for an American action/war hero guy, right?
Combat rifle (underslung flamethrower/grenade launcher?) and machete. Scout artificer armor, camo cloak/camelione, target locator.

You could also ask josman, he's good at making fluffy rules/equipment and stuff.

>>49876357
That's a good bet. I'm probably going to go with

>Underslung grenade launcher on a stalker bolter with custom ammo

>Wrist Mounted napalm thrower

>Camo cloak

>Target locator for napalm/orbital strikes/reinforcements

I'll talk to Josman to hammer out details

Now do think he would have been arrested for Bravig?

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>>49876270
Give him a heavy bolter he uses like a regular bolter.

>>49876589
>Now do think he would have been arrested for Bravig?
There were like six legiones who regularly wiped out entire planets. War crimes weren't really a thing during the crusades.

>>49876935
I just thought it may happen since Perty lost his shit when he went all Genocidal on Olympia

>>49877041
World Eaters, Death Guard, Night Lords, Iron Hands, and Iron Warriors all did the genocide every now and then. All of them were censured for it, but none were effectively brought to heel before Bad Things Happened.

>>49876270
seems like you're taking the ALL AMERICAN thing a bit too far at this point. It's hard to tell if you're just adopting the cultural themes too heavily or simply aiming for a parody.

And have you written any of the basics yet? Wargear isn't the highest priority really.

>>49877959
Dude. This isn't high literature. We have a primarch named tyrannosauros for crying out loud. We have a guy whose personality is literally defined and described by rocks. Our Horus analogue is a silk-shirted seductive monocular roman married to a discount Mab. Don't take this too seriously dude.

>>49878083
>Tfw I realise what Tiran means

>>49878083
>Our Horus analogue is a silk-shirted seductive monocular roman married to a discount Mab. Don't take this too seriously dude.
Well, we're done folks. It's been fun, but I do believe that's our closing note. Peace.

>>49878083
>>49878150
She's obviously Lady Morgana/Cleopatra.

>>49878254
I could kinda see Morgana, but how do you figure cleopatra? Beyond "hot chick with too much mascara that marries a general' there aren't that many parallels that I'm aware of.

>>49877959
I'm copy pasting my unit/unit history into the legion.

The 82's nickname is literally The All Americans.

Besides, how EXACTLY am I going overboard?

>>49878652
>82nd
>All-American
A little redundant, don't you think?

>>49869126
Probably want to aim for the northern edge of Ultima Segmentum specifically. During the Crusade, the Scribes will be sweeping up the Sagittarius arm at the Segmentum's more southern extremities.

Also you'll want to definitely focus on exactly why fighting for a Forge World results in the perceived need for Librarians.

>>49869134
>forcefields and attack drones

Is this meant to be some sort of Tau Marines Chapter? Cause it's sounding a little Tau-ish.

And I don't think Marines are ever allowed to lead Skitarii, the Astartes and Martians are separate entities and both defend their sovereignty pretty fiercely.

If these guys are hereteks/heretical, then I think you need to go ahead and say so, so that the reader knows *why* they're so radically different from regular Marines. Leaving it mysterious doesn't really help your narrative in this case, I think.

Other than that, seems ok.

>>49878652
Aren't american military units literally ALL all american? You guys don't have any foreign legion/auxiliary type things do you?

>>49878852
>Cause it's sounding a little Tau-ish.
Yeah, but to be fair, using literally ANY kind of futuristic style warfare in a warhammer army gets accused of being tau-like.

I've heard people complain that the freaking 30k ultramarine tactics are too tau-like with their interlocking fire markerlight shit.

>>49878083
>We have a guy whose personality is literally defined and described by rocks.
You seem to have skim-read the wiki at best if you think that is what we have there.
Naming themes are a bit of fun. I specifically targeted the cultural aspects of the ALL AMERICAN LEGION. Names are not culture.
Directly implanting real life cultures is not the same as writing a legion culture inspired by real life peoples, philosophies etc.

>>49878652
After the last few threads, one would have thought people would be wary of copy pasting, or at least avoid mentioning it.

>Besides, how EXACTLY am I going overboard?
Its hard to say as you don't seem to have written the basics yet for people to review..
No insult is intended here, just a friendly nudge to get the basics down at least.
Greentext posted to the wiki isn't considered a finished draft.

But to answer your question, right now they come across like America being transplanted into the ceramite-clad far future of 40k, rather than a legion inspired by American culture and philosophies. It'd be even better if you muddy the waters a bit and throw in some other cultural inspirations to blur the silhouette.

And the doctrine is still unclear. The wiki has implied they are equal parts generalists, diplomats, air cavalry, guerrillas, tacticool special forces, and so on.
Though this can be left secondary to culture and history for now, its a sticking point that needs to be solved.

>>49878876
A high prevalence of forcefields I could understand, if it was mentioned as something the Chapter prioritized strongly. And of course, no Chapter would ever be able to afford to equip *everyone* with a shield, so that problem is naturally self-limiting as long as the author doesn't go full derp and hand them out like candy.

Drones though... That's a very strongly Tau-themed thing. It'd be hard to have Marines adopt such items without the narrative feeling a little forced. I would say don't include that part, personally.

>>49878924
>you think that is what we have there.
No, really, Onyx is literally defined and described by rocks. He's a dude named after a rock, with an absolutely rigid, stoic, (rock solid, one might say) dude who fights in rock armor by punching with his rock fists, and he dies by literally turning to stone.

>>49878939
>Drones though... That's a very strongly Tau-themed thing.
Yeah, sure, tau, and most modern militaries. Hell, american drones kill more people these days than american soldiers. Drones are just something that most advanced armies would adopt en masse. Why risk lives when you can risk some hardware instead?

>>49878854
No but the 82 was formed in the days of WWI, when soldiers where sent to units close to where they joined. You're from texas? Go to Fort Hood. You're from Cali? Go to Ford ord. Maryland? Fort Mead.

But Fort Bragg and the 18th Airborne Corps was one of the first units to adopt soldiers from around the nation, east coasters, west coasters, mid westerners, southerners, northerners. It was kind of a big deal back in the day, so the 82nd Airborne Division got the nickname "All-Americans". Just a little history.

>>49878924
I'm going to assume this is Lumey/Froggy/what ever else you like to call yourself. You write like a lawyer.

When I said Copy and paste, I meant the legion is very much so inspired by the world around me. Fort Bragg is the center of the military universe, but home to the Airborne and Special Forces.

Now in the very beginning I did indeed want them to be jacks of all trades, but always playing the diplomacy card first. After a while the legion will evolve, trading generalization and diplomacy for tactical accumen and battlefield brutality. The "culture" at that point is more or less irrelevant. They're a fighting force, their culture is that of a soldier, ideals of democracy and freedom being erroeded away in fire and spent brass.

You'll have to forgive my speed at writing the wiki, I seem to have replaced my wisdom teeth with oxycodone and computer screens give me head aches now.

>>49879057
Lumey is calling himself froggy now?

>>49879022
>Why risk lives when you can risk some hardware instead?

Because while logical, that's not how 40k or its themes works? A Guard regiment with drones? Yeah, probably ok.

Space Marines using drones? Ehhhhhh, not really.

>>49878852
Well the drones and the forcefields are just a reference, and probably something specially given out to the few Marines that actually leave Erza.

I'll make a write-up on why they go full heretek soon.

>>49879022
Dude, the history and appearance points are accurate, for better or worse, but the personality isn't stoic or rigid, which is what you stated.
He's incredibly self confident, brutish and reckless. But he thinks of himself as a heroic paragon of virtue. He laughs at peoples insults and claims of brutish recklessness, thinking them as just humour; this being the opposite of a stoic.
Onyx has escaped a lot of close scrutiny, and some actually like him the way he is.
Same goes for Tiran I believe.

>>49879083
>Because while logical, that's not how 40k or its themes works?
Oh, I know. I get that. My point was more that any futuristic, efficient tactic or equipment will always be compared to the tau, because they're the only ones that really try that stuff.

>>49879205
>but the personality isn't stoic or rigid
Yeah, stoic was the wrong word there. Based. Grounded.

And my point was never that he's bad, I actually quite like him, kinda makes me think back to that oldschool campy rogue-trader era with all the silly shit that goes with it. My point was only that a lot of the primarchs we have aren't exactly high literature characters.

>>49879057
Froggy is Froggy.

I'm not sure how their philosophies and traditions are irrelevant because they fight a lot of battles. All the legions do this, and countless IA regiments do too, and all of them retain a culture different to the next. Because they all come from different places, which caused them to think and act a certain way.

As for doctrine, that looks like your overcomplicating it. And if the end result is just generalists with more expertise than before, it becomes redundant.
So, start from the end: how do they fight during the Heresy? What is their doctrine?
Keep it simple as you can. Are they air cavalry? Guerillas? etc

>>49879354
They aren't guerillas. That's more the Iron Rangers deal, the other side of 'Nam coin.

They are Airborne/Special Forces with cavalry elements.

Drop in, hit hard.

>>49879426
Ok, so not Air Cavalry then...
Well all marines hit the special forces deal on a semantics level, and several legions including the Iron Rangers are using the Special Forces pool of tropes, so adding more to that directly is crowding the pond.
I have to go to work now, but this is something that needs to be sorted out. Other legions could do with being looked at too, so they can be more clearly demarcated from each other.
You could read around on the subject in the meantime, and look at cultural stuff too while you do that.

>>49879542
I'm assuming this is Lumey.

Why the sudden push back? Thinks were going smoothly enough until now

>>49879542
And I wouldn't say they aren't. Airborne and SOF units often depend on AirCav for support and mobility.

>>49879542
There aren't really eighteen totally different ways to fight a war in a 40k like setting.

In the OU there's at least two of each specialty, usually more. CQB? Salamanders, BAngels, SoH, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Wolves, and DAngels all go in for that. Long ranged firepower focus? Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, Death Guard all do that.

Siege and urban warfare specialty? Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, SoH.

Guerrilla tactics, and stealth? Alpha Legion and Raven Guard.

Furious Assault? Space Wolves, World Eaters, Blood Angels, and kind of SoH.

You like lightning warfare? DAngles, Emperor's Children, White Scars, Raven Guard, BAngles.

Asymetric warfare? Salamanders, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Alpha Legion.


There's a TON of overlap, because there has to be. There's only so many ways to fight a war with the given set of space marine units you have.

>>49879639
Dude, take any criticism they give you with a grain of salt. I know it's tempting to listen to whatever people say because it's a collaborative project, but different people have VERY different ideas on how the Hektor Heresy thing should work.

A good example of what ran Josman off his legion for example was that he kept getting different conflicting criticism from different people, making it literally impossible to acquiesce. Then he got frustrated and just quit.

Listen to all the criticisms people give you and definitely consider them, but don't just accept them at face value.

Is the honeymoon phase already over? Don't fall for it guys, it's just The Curse of the Seventh rearing its ugly head against the Crimson Eagles.

>>49880565
>Curse of the Seventh
How many have we had now?

>>49879667
Could you make a list like this of the AU's Legions, please?

>>49880580
Three? The Gorgers, Mastodontii, and Crimson Teeth.

The Crimson Eagles are the fourth to take the mantle, I think.

The Curse of the Seventh will not be fulfilled until it has taken its seventh victim.

Do we have a Generalists Legion? Like the Ultramarines?

>>49880633
We have three.

>>49880589
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legiones_Astartes_(Hektor_Heresy)

>>49880735
>We have three.
That can't possibly be true.

>https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legiones_Astartes_(Hektor_Heresy)

That hasn't been updated in a long while, a lot of that is probably wrong already given changes and re-writes.

>>49880565
>>49880623
Are you guys serious?

I can fuck off if you so desire and focus my attentions elsewhere, but don't be fucking passive aggressive

>>49881021
>don't be fucking passive aggressive
It's a running in joke. We've had five people take the slot for the seventh now, so we call it the cursed seventh. No need to be so defensive, that idea has been running for a long time.

>>49880935
>That can't possibly be true.
Void Angels
Heralds of Hektor
Silver Cataphracts.

We have three.