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>>49604781

>We furthered the discussion of StatAnon's new Legion, which was overall met with positive feedback
>An idea was started to include some material based on Hua Yuan
>Strelky organization was discussed
>People insulted each other
>Zorg was Zorg
>Adjustments to the Steel Marshals were discussed
>Alexandri suggested we stop namefagging
>Aubrey was too lazy to start a new thread.
>Both previous threads have been archived on thisisnotatrueending under the tag /tg/ Heresy

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>>49636276
>Zorg was Zorg
kek

Pictured, the new SoB design. :^)

So I had a couple thoughts about the Augurs and their Acolytes on the way to work.

What if rather than the Skaven constantly backstabbing one another shape they presently have, we shape them more like Vampire Count Thralls?

Also just get rid of the current Skaven/Sith backstabbing apprentice thing, at least until after the Heresy. At present the Legion reads like it would have been made into one of the Unknowns pretty fast.

>>49636709
You're right. They should probably just do all the really deplorable stuff to non-Augurs.

what would happen to a legion if it withheld recovered artefacts from the Mechanicus? How would the Mechanicus react?

>>49636709
So I really want to get in on this, because I can only sate my appetite to fluff and writefag with "Roll an X" threads for so long.

It was suggested to me to pick up the Black Augurs and the Crimson Teeth, and I really like their fluff and I would be honoured to pick them up.

But I also heard that there are channels to go through to make that happen. Who do I talk to where?

>>49637254
do you have any work to share with us now?

>>49636545
I'm the minority of the group that liked the classic boobplate of the SoB. Yes it was horribly impractical, etc. But it was extremely aesthetically fitting to their themes.

>>49637235
If they found out, they would be rather upset.

>>49637254
>Good news
You can talk to pretty much anyone in the project, and we'll ask you to provide some info on your plans. If the group likes it, we give you the go ahead to keep working.

>Bad news
Josman is currently working on a replacement for the Crimson Teeth. And you're probably the first person to say that you like them aside from their original creator(s) and it does look like Bloodseer/Voidbringer are thinking of taking up the mantle again. That is not to say you cannot help with spitballing ideas and/or helping them with what they're doing, so I'd suggest talking to them about their ideas to see what you can do.

>>49637491
>If they found out, they would be rather upset.
but how are we talking?
Going to the mattresses, or just death stares? Or maybe withholding resources?

>>49637396
On Hektor Heresy? No, but I've a lot of writefaggotry to share to show how I write but I've been waiting for something like this >>49637491
Ah. I see. I know when to take a hint

>>49637582
Id be happy to have you on the team for the Augurs. Like i said last night my contribution to the writing will be slow and bouncing ideas around is something i enjoy and if you want to write go ahead. We can work things in.

Presently id like to see them more as Von Carstiens than Skaven though

Also, stuff from the last thread that I wasn't able to post on earlier:

>>49634044
I did a short response at >>49634568 but I'd like to go into some more depth.

While the NCO support chain is vital to most Western militaries, various sources I've read points towards a lack of the same style of NCO core in the East. Basically, NCO's in old Eastern bloc militaries are essentially there to be little more than better-paid enlisted troops who can pass down orders. Given, they are still important (and your illustrations of officers are why I like you), but their role is significantly reduced.

Second, and this is more for Alex, I'd suggest a method utilizing either of the following:

Squad/Platoon/Company: keep roughly the same

Battalion: 4-6 Line companies, 2-4 support companies (for armor, cooks, mechanics, artillery, veterans and paper pushers)-Led by LTC equivalent

Regiment: 3-4 Regular Line Battalions, 1-2 Support Battalions - Led by Colonel equiv

Division

Corps

Army

etc.

>>49637582
No hints, no hints. Legions are always things everybody wants to tackle because Astartes Legions and Primarch! Right now, the Legion that needs to be completely redone has already been claimed. There's work to be done in other Legions, but most of those are claimed as well. I think the Stone Men might be outdated, but I'd wait for confirmation. That being said, there's a shit ton of other things which need more info. IA Regiments, Xenos, Mechanicus Forges, Titan Legions, Knight Houses, and political players all could use more stuff.

>>49637571
Off the top of my head, withholding all future resources while petitioning Big E about it. He's a Primarch, but the Mechanicum gets equal status to the big guy.

>>49637692
Further, for Alex, from a narrative perspective, having the officer cadre come from the enlisted ranks fits the question of how some of the Strelky turn traitor. But I think it also doesn't fit the theme you are going for. The treatment of men inside the Strelky units doesn't breed true loyalty, it breeds grim acceptance, and as they continue in their service, that can turn into a kind of resentment towards the Imperium (they don't want to be here, they just got stuck). I think it would make more sense if their leaders were outsiders, who could dole out punishment without sentiment or remorse, and it would guarantee their leadership's loyalty to something outside of the Strelky Regiments themselves.

>>49637667
I'd love to work on them. Where does most of the work get done? Here in the threads or via Skype?

>>49638449
Both here and the threads are generally good for spitballing and first drafts. If you think you've just about got something good, but wish to wait for approval from elsewhere, I'd suggest putting it on the Legion Talk page.

>>49638501
Sorry, both here and Skype* are good for spitballing, etc.

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Also, The SB Task and Org now includes everything up to Battalion. Chapter will be the next on the chopping block.

>>49638520
>>49638501
Well then. My biggest problem then with the Black Augurs and their Primarch is that they are exceedingly edgy. And Voidwatcher? I'm sure even if his foster parents gave him little more than a mononym the Emperor or his brothers would give him an actual name

>>49639025
>exceedingly edgy

Even that seems like an understatement.

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Ok idea for critique
Basically:
The 13th merge all their support formations (librarius, armorium etc) and thus their knowledge and 'secrets' get shared.

The Mech are not happy about their IP being shared about, so get frosty with the 13th.
That leads to scrutiny from the Mech too, and they discover by accident that the 13th have been keeping some artefacts for a 'private collection' rather than hand them over like they're supposed to.

They aren't keeping artefact weapons or armour though; there doesn't seem to be any logic or criteria for what they keep, and they don't use any of it. It just sits in deep storage under guard.

Mech don't see the difference, and flip their shit and petition the Emperor to do something about it.

Emps has a tough decision, he probably understands why the 13th were doing what they did, and he might want to add a check on Martian power politically, but he can't lose support from Mars, and this issue is what he promised them in the treaty...


So the 13th get punished (suggestions on how welcome) and have to make shit right, which they do.

But the relationship never returns to normal - the Mech continue their part, but give the bare minimum and take as long as they can afford to with requisitioning etc.
While the 13th (are kind of forced to) set themselves up to be more and more self-sufficient to compensate.

Then post heresy, with no more Mech to worry about, the 13th are back to doing shenanigans to get hold of tainted artefacts across the galaxy for Tzeentchian reasons.

I like it because it seems to give a really good explanation for the cults Uriel finds all over the galaxy to be somewhat connected without it being obvious - corrupt artefacts - and gives a bit of reasonable backlash to the 13th merging there support arms together.

But pick it apart; is it viable? Any plot holes or clashes I'm missing? Just scrap it?

Not to sound like a complete jackass, but im remembering just how many of these Legions i dont like.

May work on a Custode as i think up some Augurs stuff.

>>49639708
I honestly think the Augurs need to he torn down and built back up. The Crimson Teeth given more reading are pretty stupid. But the Augurs are really crawling in my skin.

What culture are they even representative of? I can't really place one.

>>49639853
Im ok with tearing the Augurs down, ove had ideas for other Legions or we could keep the Psyker aspect as they are the only Psyker force so far i think.

I dont think they have a set culture, theu seem an amalgamation of the Night Lords (edgy darkness) and the Thousand Sons.

I'll help with the Teeth too i suppose see what we can form. I think Air Assault is something we dont have.

>>49639853
Not every legion has to represent a culture. Look at the Salamanders or Iron Hands. Hell, look at literally any of the traitor legions.

They represent evil wizards. I feel like you in particular have beef with that aspect, and I can respect differences of opinion, but ultimately I think they were well enough liked for long enough that some thought should be put into who exactly is railing against them.

>>49640010
Tearing them down doesnt mean we get rid of the Evil Wizards, it just gives us a chance to expand on the idea in a better manner.

>>49640010
>They represent evil wizards. I feel like you in particular have beef with that aspect, and I can respect differences of opinion, but ultimately I think they were well enough liked for long enough that some thought should be put into who exactly is railing against them.

Oh no, you mistake me. That's the part I enjoy. Druid/warlock/hermit marines with scraggly beards shifting through the guts of some slain giant beast searching for portents of fortune is awesome.

But they just seem like magic night lords like what >>49639965 said. I think they could do with some refinement and some reinvisioning

As for Crimson Teeth replacements, as a dude in the 82nd Airborne I can tell you that airborne dudes are actually psychotic. A lot can be done with that

>"I'm the VII Legion. And this as far as the bastards go."

>>49637692
Just my thoughts. But doubling up on battalion and regiment reads awkwardly.

Youd be better of with brigades above battalions. And then habe them variably sized from 3-8 battalions includong support companies and the like.

>>49640177
Gove the Crimson Teeth replacement Primarch a C&C Sokar Pattern Storm Bird.

>>49640177
Maybe I haven't made them clear enough then. Extreme violence isn't supposed to be the core of them, it's just a part of the extreme darkness that hangs over the legion. They're the Sith. They're evil wizards that would turn themselves into liches. They're cutthroat businessmen who would do anything to be number one.

That said, they were originally a lot more based around the whole Augur thing. That is, they were a legion of seers and prophets, with General sorcery being a secondary thing. Then the Eyes of the Emperor came along though and the Augurs had to be reimagined slightly. Before that they were psuedo-Half-Eldar. Which I think speaks for itself.

>>49640177

The Storm Bringers were an Airborne Legion while they were still a thing.

>>49640707
Most people were trying to make them into Fighter Aces the Legion, i tried keeping them the Airborne, then they got deleted

>>49640678
See, but the whole point of the Horus Heresy is that it's this giant tragedy of Homerian depth and even greater scope. When you have Legions like the Death Guard with Primarchs like Morty, you loose sympathy because everyone was a shithead before hand. When you give them something great to fall from, or at the very least give them a soft spot so they can be relatable or at least tragic, like Angron or Curze, then they tend to generate more interest.

Thats just my general thoughts for any legion.

This one in particular though...I think they could benefit from a softer start. Make them smiley Gandalfs before becoming child sacrificing Rasputins. Or have them at least fight against this "darkness" so their fall is just them embracing their worse nature. At the very least give them a reason to be so power hungry.

Either way I think playing with celtic or slavic themes could spice them up just a tad.

>>49640891
>>49640707
>>49640298
And weren't people discussing the merits of having a 'Murica themed legion? Having them be ultra gung ho, blood thirsty Hell Divers could be interesting

I think this all works out.

>>49636276
>StatAnon
Who?

>>49640986
Airborne/Assault Primarch could be Colonel Kilgore.

Or based on any number of Airborne Officers. An Otto Skorzeny Captain could be cool

>>49640957
Slavic themes are definitely good. Koschei and all that.

I was planning on writing on how they standard out kind of as haughty paladins. They made minor psykers powers, but more evenly spread out. Little miracles here and there. They were all shiny and noble, but also with a hint of arrogance. Then Voidwatcher shows up and is dissatisfied with how they are. Maybe not quite as immediately as he is currently, but certainly he becomes deeply disappointed in his sons. He's this grand sorcerer with even grander aspirations, and his genesires are barely better than their fellow in those regards. So he ends up amping things up with the Decimation.

Ultimately though, the narrative of the Black Augurs as they are currently is more the Voidwatcher and Bloodseer playing against each other. Blood feels as though Void has twisted something good and taken his brothers from him, but Void retorts ultimately by saying that Blood is just as selfish and single minded as he is. All he wants is *his* legion back, and can't accept the fact that his brothers might actually be happier the way things are. It was another thing I intended to write more about, but kept ending up too busy to finish it.

>>49641053
I think mixing this revamp with some further brainstorming for Slav and Celt influence would be great.

Plus the father vs son match has always been my favorite part of the Legion.

>>49640986
>Having them be ultra gung ho, blood thirsty Hell Divers
It was less focused on being straight up american military style as it was to be a melting pot legion. The idea was that their primarch was last to be found, but they were the most numerically superior legion, so they ended up serving with dozens of other generals and primarchs during the decades before they reunited under their primarch, so they end up being a very diverse legion with a slight focus on firepower and industrial output.

>>49641130
I do think it's good to keep in mind that not every legion needs overt or even subtle cultural references. You can count on one hand the number of those there are in the original legions.

>>49641160
Well of course, but as they are with out the little that was just posted they are rather stale and just edgy.

They dont need a culture, but can borrow from some to have their own.

Im also still thinking having some Vampire Count like manipulation of people, could be neat.

And for Thralls, in some books they mention Astartes blood as havong positive effects on people like that Clerk in Brotherhood of the Snake.

>>49641160
>You can count on one hand the number of those there are in the original legions
I've yet to see it explained why this is a bad thing.

If you take a scifi universe and add in heavy cultural inspirations, you end up with Star Wars, Warhammer 40k, or Star Trek, You take a scifi universe and try to make it interesting by filling in the entire freaking culture, you end up with Jupiter Ascending.

>>49641200
>Im also still thinking having some Vampire Count like manipulation of people, could be neat.
>And for Thralls, in some books they mention Astartes blood as havong positive effects on people like that Clerk in Brotherhood of the Snake.

I could get behind that. I just like the idea of Space Marines with goons.

>>49641200
>Well of course, but as they are with out the little that was just posted they are rather stale and just edgy.
>They dont need a culture, but can borrow from some to have their own.

I'm not really seeing this edgy thing. I guess it's probably a result of how I wrote it, but I intended them to be baddies. They're villains. They do villainous things. That became their core schtick. In the same way the Salamanders had fire worship and stoicism, or the Iron Hands have big clanking machines and disregard for human life, the Black Augurs have sorcery and doing bad stuff. Not in a gore for the sake of gore Night Lords way, but like how a super villain robs a bank but really enjoys making it unpleasant for all the poor people caught inside. They're not supposed to be edgy, they're just supposedly be un-apologetically nasty.

>>49641130

It would also be wise to think about how the Legion interacts with the outside, so how things sour quickly and a small but growing chorus of officials start to complain about the Legion, and then the malign ways in which the Augurs wage their wars and use the Imperial Army as sacrifices and distractions grows their infamy.

And as this continues and is exacerbated by the Legion's insular and deceptive nature, rivalry and acrimony is born between the Augurs and most of the other Legions. With the Augurs not making friends or allies with any of those they serve with, and them seeing their fellow Legions as weak, short sighted, blind or just plain stupid they'd be very much on the fringes, doing their own thing and ignoring the wider Imperium. The Legion would be almost entirely self-sufficient so they would never have to reply on any outsiders, which would only add to their reputation.

By the end of the Crusade, virtually everyone within the Legion knows that censure or worse is staring them in the face. They've pissed off everyone due to putting their own agenda in front of that of the Emperor, and perhaps the Emperor orders the Voidwatcher to Terra so he can bind him into the Golden Throne and then have the Augurs destroyed to remove the threat they could pose. And then the Rebellion happens.

>>49641283
Obviously, but Space Marines ought to be defined by what they do, not how you window dress it. White Scars are Mongolian, but does that really add that much to them? They could just as easily be Space Bikers without any cultural trappings. Iron Warriors have no explicit cultural background and are perfectly compelling, so are the Imperial Fists or the Blood Angels.

>>49641144
As a member of the greatest unit in the world I feel compelled to inform you that the AA on the 82nd Airborne unit patch stands for All Americans because, as my NCO told it, "Every fucking American, be he a Spook, Gook, Wop, Redskin, Honkey, Kraut, Bogstomper, Pollack, or Tusken Raider, banded together to kick the Germans in testicles not once, but twice, in some of the finest conflicts known to man. So remember soldiers, don't judge the dumb fuck to your left your right based on how well they tan or burn when you go down range, but wether or not he fucks your girlfriend when you go down range."

But the Voidwatcher still is a dumb "name" and is an edgy un sympathetic cunt.

Its like if Magnus was a blatant asshole. Would you REALLY care if Prospero burned?

>>49641354
That was actually discussed a fair bit. Up to the Voidwatcher intentionally having the Council of Nikaea go sour, because he knew it would drive a wedge between some of the legions and the Emperor, making it easier for the coming rebellion to happen.

That said, I feel like the Augurs out to be something the Emperor barely tolerates. They skirt the edge of acceptable behavior, though really the Big E doesn't seem to care about much besides people committing Heresy. He allows people the Pert, Angron, and Curze to remain in control of their legions however they want. Even Ferrus is well known for allowing or intending for friendly casualties to get the job done.

>>49641303
I think its mostly the manner in which they are baddies. They murdering each other in your sleep to take over on a large scale aspect never sat well with me. And was always kind of a stupid thing about the Sith.

>>49641354
They could also stave some of those complaints off with manipulation, psychic domination, promises of power.

>>49641379
Imperial Fists are essentially Prussians IN SPACE!

>>49641412

No, in fact you'd cheer the Yiffs on.

But here Ostium isn't burned and the Augurs get away with everything.

>>49641431
and they have no growth or development. They just are what they are and that's that

>>49641379
>82nd
>Greatest in World

Yep, your a Paratrooper alright

>>49641303
>I'm not really seeing this edgy thing. I guess it's probably a result of how I wrote it, but I intended them to be baddies. They're villains. They do villainous things. That became their core schtick. In the same way the Salamanders had fire worship and stoicism, or the Iron Hands have big clanking machines and disregard for human life, the Black Augurs have sorcery and doing bad stuff. Not in a gore for the sake of gore Night Lords way, but like how a super villain robs a bank but really enjoys making it unpleasant for all the poor people caught inside. They're not supposed to be edgy, they're just supposedly be un-apologetically nasty.

Yes but what we're trying to say is that that's not particularly interesting.

They come off as Hot Topic kids, or Saturday morning cartoon villians. Which can be done well, just look at these guys >>49616304 but this aint it

>>49641412
>>49641431
Well yeah, that's the point. The Black Augurs aren't supposed to be sympathetic. Least of all the Voidwatcher.

I'll be honest about the name though, I've never really been happy with it. It's a hold over from when he was an Eldar, then from when he was primarily a seer. It just got written into a lot of the wiki and everyone got used to it.

Also, Void gets thrown into the Warp and his legion is shattered beyond recognition. So it's not like they get away with everything.

>>49641452
I bet you're a fucking marine, LEG

>>49641453
>Saturday morning cartoon villians

That was the idea yeah.

>>49641458

How do they get shattered? After Ostium, they basically don't take part in the Rebellion, basically focusing on their own backstabbing research and trying to make Voidy a God. And then they run before retribution can come. They could escape the Loyalists quite easily anyway.

>>49641468
> Navy sheep.

Try 1st Cav.

You aint Cav you aint shit.

>>49641491
After Void dies there's nothing holding them together. All the different covens scatter to the four winds and Blood makes a point of having it be that way.

They should also have some stuff written in after Ostium. I think they were supposed to be on Terra.

>>49641498
>Cavfags

Horsefucker

>>49641357
>White Scars are Mongolian, but does that really add that much to them?
Yes, it defines their entire legion culture, tactics, and habtis. Their focus on hunting? Massacring enemies? Letting prey escape if it's worthy, or so they can chase it again? Not generally concerned about other people even when they're politically involved with a giant empire? All mongol things.


>They could just as easily be Space Bikers without any cultural trappings.
Yes, they could, but why?


>Iron Warriors have no explicit cultural background and are perfectly compelling, so are the Imperial Fists
I agree with you here, I actually play fists, and Iron Warriors probably only lose out to Ultramarines as my second favorite. I was never saying that legions HAVE TO have a strong cultural influence to be good, but at the same time I don't think it's a coincidence that the most popular legions and chapters heavily lean on one particular myth or culture.

It might also be worthy of consideration that the Iron Warriors and Fists might not have overt cultural inspirations, but they have strong theming. Iron Warriors are clearly based on WWI and WWII siege warfare, with a heavy focus on the bitter persistence of a soldier at war. The Imperial Fists are a working man's legion, marines who take pride and satisfaction from their duty and little else.

>Blood angels have no cultural inspiration
They're heavily based on Biblical and Catholic literature, with strong vampire undertones.

>>49641509
Also, just to be clear, the majority of the legion has no idea what's going on with Voidwatcher trying to become an actual god.

Bloodseer gets wind of it and creates a crack team to take him down in secret.

>>49641511
At least my horse is a better ride than your boyfriend.

>>49641379
Literally what does that have to do with the post you're replying to?

>>49641509

Void doesn't 'die' until after the Rebellion is over. This Legion escapes the scouring or whatever its name is pretty much intact.

Also given the Augurs guive no shits about Hektor, why would they be on Terra? Unless it is to loot the planet of artifacts and then leave. They're pointedly not part of Hektor's rebellion and don't care if he wins or loses.

>>49639708
>Not to sound like a complete jackass, but im remembering just how many of these Legions i dont like.
Which and why?

>>49641477
>>49641458

Okay, okay, fine.

The Black Augurs are supposed to be shit heads. Fine.

Now think about how that works, really. At Least the Death Guard and the Iron Warriors were fucking great at their jobs.

But my biggest problem is that the Death Guard and Iron Warriors got a away with being bastards because

>a) they did jobs no one else would/could do
>b) they hated psykers

If the thousand sons where assholes do you think for a second that the Emperor would have hesitated to have Russ'd them all? Psykers can't really get away with being obvious closet heretics

>>49641548
The Augurs are currently more out of place than the Stone Men. They do their own thing, and the universe goes on by not paying them no mind.

>>49641548
Actually, I thought I had Void dying just before the "official" end of the Heresy and the beginning of the Scouring. Where did it get placed in the timeline? Because there were some things being tossed around about Blood or some other member of the Haruspex helping found the Grey Knights/Inquisition.

>>49641579
>Russ'd them all?
That should always have been Guilliman's job. If Guilliman fucks up and loses a battlefleet, he can send four more. If Russ fucks up and loses a battlefleet, he just lost half his legion.

>>49641538
Take that back!

>>49641543
The 82nd was famous back in WWI and II two for being a giant melting pot, same as most of rest of the army as I'm sure >>49641538 as a Warboy Cavfag can attest to. When making a Murica themed legion you can have your diversity cake and liberate it too

>>49641549
Winged Victory, cause i never liked Lumey so its personal, plus Hurr Muh Exile.

Silver Cataphracts for their belief that war is revolting (not very marine like) and their purges.

Those are the ones ive gone through most recently.

>>49641626
Ah, I see. Perhaps you could have said that instead of swinging your dick around.

>>49641579

That is a point. What do the Augurs do as a Legion? They've never seemed to have a specific battle doctrine or style of warfare beyond 'We use Psykers'. Even the canon thousand sons have 'Precision Assaults, Misdirection and Macro-Coordination' as strategic tendencies. Augurs just mind bullet everything, or at least that's what it seems.

>>49641579
They're arguably more irreplaceable than either of the Death Guard or Iron Warriors. Those are legions that are good at a standard type of warfare. Something another legions could do, but just isn't as good at. Fact of the matter is no other legion could muster as many or as many proficient psykers as the Augurs.

Not to mention they don't actually start doing anything heretical until very late in the Crusade and Nikaea happens not too long after that.

They spend most of it just being bastards. Committing generic but heinous warcrimes and generally being shitty to each other/fellow marines (not nearly to the Sith/post-Heresy extremes we see currently in the wiki). That stuff is ultimately disliked and disapproved of by the big man, but it's something that he's always tolerated. Hell, he even does it himself.

>>49641637

Winged Victory are the Not!Ultramarines, so you can't escape them.

Cataphracts are just Loyalist Iron Warriors, but more Russian.

>>49641637
Interesting. I didn't expect those choices.

>>49641653
Augurs have a key problem in that the Eyes of the Emperor also hog the psykers slot. The Eyes limit their psyker powers to foresight, which is gimmicky anyway, but with 2 big Psykers on the roster, and only so much you can do with psykers, it becomes quite difficult to do anything with the Augurs.

They're a perfect warband, maybe they could work as the remnant of the traitor Eyes, if the Eyes still do that whole schism thing

>>49641653
I believe it was discussed that they do shit that's generally considered distasteful. Targeting civilians, hostage taking, mass torture. That's all pretty generic and un-elaborated upon stuff though. I guess they just try to fight the least stand up fights as possible. Misdirection, ambushes, pretending to have negotiations.Shit like that.

>>49641723

They're Night Lords, but more Psyker.

>>49641626
Hey, he might not be a good a ride as my horse, but atleast he aint a Sailor.

Yeah, the army was pretty good at its diversity, color, liking cock, none of that matters you can kill or be killed as easy as anyone.

The Legion should be combined arms, woth emphasis on Drop Pod Assault and Airmobile, represent Airborne and Air Cav.

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>>49641644
>instead of swinging your dick around.

>>49641738
that is covered by the War Scribes and touched on by a few other legions to varying degrees.

>>49641734
Also Marines Malevolent I guess.

>>49641708
They are just tbe two i looked at most recently. I remember not liking the Stone Men or the Xeno Lover Heal Faggots either.

>>49641760

Sans the piss coloured armour.

>>49641756
Looks to me like the Scribes do Boarding Actions amd Urban Fighting

>>49641775
I'll be honest, I really never liked the snek guys. They always felt like they were trying to do way too many things and be one guys special snowflake legion. This is coming from the Black Augurs anon. Aubrey was always incredibly obstinate about any changes too. Why the fuck are they the Arch-Traitors for christssakes?

>>49641723
All of these things are covered by other legions. Off the top of my head, the Iron Rangers, Void Angels, and Justicars or whatever they are called now.

>>49641813

Also technological reclamation.

>>49641831

They've been fixed now. At least I hope so. A lot has been scaled back and modified.

>>49641845
So do the the Thousand Sons with their secondary stuff. It's mostly either Raven Guard or Ultramarines.

>>49641813
>re-reading the page
What the fuck happened to these guys? What is this shit?

Honestly this seems like a fun project and I would love to contribute but reading the fluff it seems that a shitton of it would need to be torn down and started anew

>>49636276
>Steel Marshals
What changes?

>>49641903

We know that far too well. Though help in the tearing down and rebuilding is always appreciated.

>>49641915

They now have a unique corps of officers who are advisors/diplomats. Also some Siege Terminators and Assault Breachers.

>>49641865
No idea, bit it opens the door for a Legion that gets to play Sicily and D-Day airborne plus Air Cav from Vietnam. Fucking hot drops from orbit then straight into gunships for the next target.

>>49641929
Well yeah, but where do I start? Seems to me I've missed a whole year of discussion and what not

>>49641936
WOOOOO


HOOOAH. AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY

>>49641929
Oh that, cool.

>>49641903
That's what we're doing man. Tearing ot down and building it up again and again until it's just right and we don't have to fuck with it anymore and we can move to other parts of the lore

>>49641970
And some tanks, cause tanks are fucking awesome.

Airborne and Cavalry in one army. How terrifying.

>>49641864
Ok, but then the only difference then is that the Augurs are psykers, right?

Given the rest of their identity is so flat, thats a problem. Theres very little beyond villainy, and the tactics are done elsewhere in more interesting ways. Though thats mainly because psyker powers as a doctrine tend to overshadow everything else and it loses any sense of challenge being overcome.

It's doubly hard when there is another psyker legion hogging some of the few other angles to play.

>>49641903
I suggested this a long way back. My idea was seen as too drastic and indecision kept anything from being cut at all.

>>49641865
>>49641936
The original anon was chased off by another anon, and the Scribes were rewritten by same anon. Evidently more than you or I noticed, sadly.

>>49641936
It does seem that it will be open, but triple check that is the case.

>>49641993
Tzeentch would be happy at least

>>49641995
I mean, as stupid as it sounds, the Astartes Could make work. Especially with Drop Pods


How's about we name these boys the Crimson/Red Eagles?

>>49642004
>I suggested this a long way back. My idea was seen as too drastic and indecision kept anything from being cut at all.

Could it happen now? Prune some deadwood and really start to shape everything up.

>>49642012

We had this last thread. American marines is never a good idea. Too bloody obvious. Also this.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Screaming_Eagles

>>49642012
Are airborne made redundant by space?

Wouldn't all legions have to deploy to a planet or battlefield by drop pod?

I guess there is thunderhawks and the like, but is that not it?

>>49642004
That's why I suggested that we either tear them down or give them Celt/Slav culture to artificially spice them up.

No offence to their creator, but the name and insignia is awesome...everything else? Eeehhhh

>>49642004
So do we really need both loyalist and traitor psyker legion? The Horus Heresy managed completely fine with just one

>>49642004
So far its looking open ill have to check when i get home.

>>49642012
Might be too obvious.

>>49642043
Its "Airborne" they are Orbital Shock Specialists, Tip of the Spear, Rapid Redeployment.

>>49642050

Thunder Kings already have the Celtic Culture cornered.

>>49642042
>We had this last thread. American marines is never a good idea.
We had two screaming moron with directly contradictory arguments. Lets not act like the idea is DOA.

>>49642097
Slavs, Gypsys and Vampire Counts

>>49642113
That's good enough.

>>49642050
How about Hindu culture? Would fit with his "enlightenment"

>>49642133
Poo in the lu.

>>49642133
Actually, if you look at the two Black Augurs with proper names from the Sacred Band, they both have vaguely Indian names.

>>49642133

Aren't the Eyes of the Emperor eastern?

>>49642042
The Second Sons in ImpAss are American flavoured and they've kinda worked out.

>>49642029
We pretty much all agreed on cutting the Crimson Teeth.
There's no agreement on any others.
Augurs were a possible cut, but opinions were split on cut or rewrite.

>>49642050
I think they are a *perfect* warband. Theres a lot of potential there. Shit they could even be some chaotic fraternity of librarians from the traitor legions. The covens being spread out among the different traitor warbands, but ultimately all agreeing to (at least overtly) showing eachother mercy or something.
Like a twisted version of medieval combats rules, where nobles were defeated and captured for ransom while the rank and file would normally get shanked.

>>49642051
I've argued no. Its an argument that goes nowhere without a decision being made at the end of it.

The Augurs are great, just don't work as a legion throughout the whole history. Post heresy its great.

I've suggested a replacement for them and the eyes jointly being a 'wild mage'. Instead of a learned wizard who falls through his own greed/hubris, he's basically a barbarian with magic powers, more druid and cleric than mage. His psyker power being insane, but him being pretty much unable to control it, with little incentive or inclination to try to.

It met some approval, and was ignored or disliked by others.

>>49642133
The buddhist sort of angle is covered by the other psyker, Shakya Vardhana

>>49642042
Nigger explain to me Space Wolves then

Besides, being an active service member I would focus more on Army culture than I would whatever you eurofags think Murica is.

Also, Screaming Eagles is a great example of this done poorly

Either way you may be out voted on this, we'll see

>>49642029
This. Keep archived all the dead wood for refrence, but lets take out the trash on the wiki guys

>>49642072
It's only Obvious if they're written that way.

>>49642043
No, "Airborne" would be all the more necessary, being able to drop a bunch of fags off on one side of the planet and then fuck off to the other side of the planet can make or break a campaign

Plus with Drop pods airborne cav units or now possible

>>49642179
Warband yes. Loyal, even if for a moment, legion, no

>>49642179

The guy who was writing the Stone Men has now left with the legion still rather shapeless. I would not shed tears if they were to go.

>>49642223
The whole molding stone thing was dumb anyway

>>49642193
Well first we need a consensus on what we're going to cut and I'll be the first one to do it

>>49642193

>MURICAmarines

The numberfag who made rules for all the primarchs is already working on Hektor Heresy US marines.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/User:Josman#Liberators

Just figured I'd let you know.

>>49642241

Magic stone that resists the Warp so they can never be corrupted to boot.

>>49642223
>Stone Men
>Shapeless

Does someone just need to do a little carving then? We got any sculptors amongst us?

>>49642247
We'll meet him when we cross that bridge.

Right now, we're fluffan

>>49642193
True, Crimson Eagles, Crimson Hawks, Crimson Aquilas, somethi g altogether different where we get Black and Gold with some Crimson. You know Army (Cav) colors with Airborne Beret mixed in.

>>49642266
You might consider just hitting him up and working with him. He's done a lot of background and wider culture stuff, but not much about actual military doctrine or individual warband culture. People were giving him a lot of shit over names and legion identity, but they liked his fluff and substance. Seems pretty complimentary.

>>49642286
Actually my dream paintscheme is Maroon helmet, yellow right pauldron inset with BDU paintscheme everything else.

After the heresy thr Legion would split between the SUPER blood Thirsty maniacs, and the defenders of the common man.

>>49642341
Talk to him when he gets in thread

>>49642345
BDU power armor isnt always great. But having like a Black "standard" with Nam Tiger stripe would be cool. Amd then a diagonally halved yellow pauldron.

>>49642341
We can give it a look over at the very least

>>49642345
Oh and where are we getting Sane Defenders of the Common Man? That description is neither Airborne or Cav

>>49642223
>>49642242
>cutting
I wrote a long piece on this, then scrapped it for this: good luck, be patient, and don't back out or compromise.

Its too much of a mess now for a little trimming to clean up. We picked the writing our way out of the hole route a way back. Cuts create more cleaning of whats left, and endless rewrites grind away motivation to write.

There are no easy solutions.

I'm trying to focus on writing and finishing my own stuff, so i'm going to try and stay out of discussions of cuts as long as I can.

>>49642416
Who the hell said sane?

Okay, maybe not defenders of man, but there would definitely be a civil war in the legion between those who want to be Khornebros and those who would rather die than call napalm on school houses for anyone other than the Emperor. They are bloodthirsty maniacs, but they aren't fucking traitors.

>>49642476
Works for me.

>>49642451
That's why you get out the big guns and pluck that shit out root and stem. It's much easier to start from step 1 than to rewrite it step by step

>>49642533
how far is too far though?
I was proposing to cut active and more-or-less completed legions. If we're just talking legions without anons, theres lots of those. But they're nearly all 'under another anons wing', which is where it gets complicated and heated.

Everyone is too close to be anywhere near objective about what needs doing.

Hence why we only had a nearly(!) unanimous agreement on cutting the Crimson Teeth

>>49642341
>>49642366
>>49642399
I've actually been lurking for a while. Seems like good stuff.

>>49642592
Cool.

I'll go into Crimson Eagle lore in a bit, I'm taping up my ruck rn

>>49642592
You're stat anon, correct?

Are you doing all of the primarchs?

>>49642476
So for colors, what if we go with Mantos Warriors colors but with the Maroon helmet.

>>49642592
Nice, like i said though ill still look at your stuff.

>>49642619
All the Hektor primarchs are done save for Uriel (who may or may not be finished) and Camaxtli, (whose deletion I've been espousing).

>>49642586
I think we should cut the Legions that either directly crib off of the Horus Heresy or are just shitilly written; like the Lions Rampant or Aubrey

>>49641379
>long winded comment with no bearing on the topic.
>greatest in the world
Paratrooper confirmed.

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>>49642628
Forgot the picture

>>49642684
Maybe a less Piss yellow and maybe something more Golden? A warmer, creamier yellow?

The shade of green and red is great though. Maybe we csn do black lines to break it up like camo?

Also, I think the Legion should change their camo whenever possible/continent. Or do you think they would care?

I'm stuck at this strange cross roads of Tacticool and HOOAH

>>49642678
S-shut up l-leg ;_;

>>49642653
okay, well Uriel Salazar is finished. There was a problem with the wrong page being linked in the info box, but he's done.

Camaxtli has been on the chopping block for a while, nothing taking his place has been actually finished or written up in full so he's still there.

>>49642656
Thats a very broad and subjective criteria though, how do you even define what is poorly written, and would it not be better to just rewrite what is there in better phrasing and format?
Also, couldn't every legion be likened to another and thus be cribbing off the Horus Heresy?


Either way I think a lot of this is getting ahead of itself. Discussing cuts is one thing, but reaching a consensus on whether to do that or not is another.

>>49642777
The painter has shit for yellow, but yeah, Cav Golden Yellow, or Imperial Fists yellow.

Black Tiger stripes on the green. Camo could work when they cared. Their tacticool would probably show in use of Seekers and Vet Tacticals, who would use camo.

>>49642837
Gotchya. Bog standard Eagle just wants too see how many heads he can take with him on the Taurox before they need to mount up

>>49642882
Surely you mean his Rhino. His M113 (you can even put a HB on top to show a .50cal) to go with his Space Huey in the form of a Storm Eagle.

>>49642656
>Aubrey
I'm in favor of him staying. His rules are some of the best I've written, and certainly most Fun!*, so maybe give them some work if they need it, but I like Aubrey and his legion. They have lots of potential, even if they are edgelords one and all.

>>49642812
>Uriel Salazar is finished.
I take it that this is a subtle hint that I should get writing?


>couldn't every legion be likened to another and thus be cribbing off the Horus Heresy?
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of that going on. I don't know how many times I was reading through legion pages and going, "Oh, they're just *canon legion* lite!" That's why I tried to keep it so unconventional with my legion. Don't get me wrong, all the legions have their cool sides, but some seem a bit uninspired.

>>49642837
>>49642882
You can always pick more than one option. If you're making MURICA marines, odds are they'll have access to Grade A equipment, maybe even multiple suits of power armor / painted plating to stick on top that they can use when the situation calls for.

>>49642941
Well armor is easily repainted, the top end gear would be more like having more Special Issue Ammo, so likely a special squad that gets it along side the Seekers

>>49642941
>I take it that this is a subtle hint that I should get writing?
No, you do what interests you in your own time - we aren't paid to do this...

>cribbing from the horus heresy
There are no new ideas. We put way too much energy into being not like the Horus Heresy in this project, that it defeats the point of what this is: fanfiction.

There are no new, unconventional, or original ideas either, didn't you know?

>>49643003
Is Uriel your character?


>There are no new ideas.
Well there goes my idea for the pasta chef marines...

>>49642941
I think you grossly over estimate the quality of the stuff we have to work with. I don't what Cavbro has faced, but most of our stuff is Good Nuff. Serviceable is the technical term. The Crimson Eagles would be no different. ESPECIALLY since they where the last to be found. They would get the left over equipment from every other legion and wouldn't get to resupply and get their own gear until much later. Perhaps even right before the Heresy kicks off, which at thay point all the fancy guns would be pointed at each other.

Also what Primarch should this be? I know we aren't being literal with the Alternate History stuff, but I would really like to. Maybe this is Angron if he didn't get fucked?

>>49643067
"Mama Mia, das-a spicee-a Heresy!"

Alternatively

"HEKTOR, WHAT THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU DOING? THIS EMPEROR IS FUCKING RAWWW! Come here, yes? You're trying to overthrow the galaxy, hmm, yes? THEN HOW'S ABOUT YOU GET OFF YOUR BOLLOCKS AND KILL THE EMPEROR YA DONKEY!"

>Plasma gun

>Nice and hot

>>49643082
>They'd have shitty gear.
I have a fluff bypass for this already that fits well into the american theme.
>What primarch should this be.
Again, I already have that worked out.

You can find both answers on my 1d4chan userpage. The primarch himself was never the focus so much as the legion was, but he could best be described as a mix of guilliman and perterabo who firmly believes in democracy.

>>49643123
The Adeptus Nutriticus.

YOU HAVE HUGE GENESEED

THAT MEANS YOU NEED HUGE NUTRITION

COOK AND FEED

COOK AND FEED YOUR GENES

>>49643082
While they would get a lot of "serviceable" equipment, they still would have been a Legion serving on the front for much of the Crusade, its just they would have been doing it will attatched to other units. So while in the real world wed get left overs and what ever we can get. Remember in this universe the Alpha Legion popped up out of no where fully kitted out right after they found Alpharius.

Thats not to say that being issued with older kit isnt more interesting, but its not how things roll for the Imperium. Dark Angels were the first amd have the oldest stuff hoarded, Alphas are the last and have the newest stuff.

Are they the last Legion to get their Primarch?

>>49641936
I will fuck all of you in the ass if this is what gets decided on for my Legion.

Because that's what I wanted to begin with, hot drops and Thunderhawks everywhere, breaking the enemy down into small bitesize chunks, and then naval gunfire all day every day on whatever holdouts can't be breached by Airborne Marines, but Lumey gave me a TRUCKLOAD of shit about it every time I tried talking about it.

So if he doesn't also come back and shit down YOUR necks.... I will be slightly insulted, I think.

>>49643187
Nyeehh...I was thinking something more, Angron meets Rawbut, with more than a little russ than should be good for you thrown in

The way I want to take these guys isn't Captian America, it's Lt. Colonel Kilgore.

>>49643239
Shut the fuck up Private and enjoy the ride

>>49643259
No, I'm a little mad now. Because that idea is essentially why Lumey ran me off to begin with.

>>49643067
>Is Uriel your character?
Yes, for better or worse.
I apologise for the shitty writing.
Feedback from you or anyone else is welcome.
I'm cleaning and finishing the legion page currently as i've hit a bit of momentum.

>>49643270
well we'd like to see you back.

>>49643316
>as i've hit a bit of momentum.
Though input on this: >>49639177
would be appreciated.

Am I too late to talk about Augurs?

>>49643239
Woah Arelex, let's tone it down a fucking bunch huh? Nothing is decided yet one way or another. But for one:

Who gave you a Legion? Did everyone agree? Okay if so, if that's true

No one can make you write anything you don't want to write. There is no 'deciding for your legion'.

>>49643270
I just got here, so I'm not caught up on drama.

>>49643239
>Lumey
I HOPE he shows up, because from what people tell me, he and I are on pretty close to the same wavelength, so I'd value his opinion, and I could probably talk him into the legion if necessary.

>>49643246
The premise I was working from was more one of 1700 and 1800's america, with all the melting pot and NOTamerican exceptionalism that implies. To be honest I was never too focused on the primarch himself. Primarchs are simple, legions are where it gets interesting.

My idea was less Steve Rogers, Less Lt. Colonel Kilgore, more John Adams meets Andrew Jackson with a healthy dose of J.P. Morgan and Andrew Carnegie.

>>49643239
Lumey was a fucking prick that bitched everytime he didnt get his way and if he comes back to bitch we dont have to listen.

>>49643246
Kilgore mixed with Big Boss. I think the Big Boss aspect mixes well withJosman's idea of them being a Legion with out an identity, also works with Kilgore, who while batshit was a father to his men.

>>49643354
Yeah, that's fine. I didn't mean to yell. I just was kinda flabbergasted that things might *literally* be repeating themselves.

>>49643316
>I apologise for the shitty writing.
Haven't read any of his fluff yet. I will before I start working, but give me a ballpark of how you think he'd work on the field. Not in gameplay terms, in fluff terms. How would he approach attacking different foes? Is he a lone wolf a la Corax or Conrad, or is he a team player like Horus or Dorn? Or neither? Both? Just lay some stuff on me.

>>49643358
The Revolutionary and Post Revolution America doesnt do it for me. It could work for a traitor Legion i don t know if its what we are looking for.

>>49643346
Who gave you a Legion?

Either nobody, or everyone in the original thread, depending how you look at it.

>>49643381
Take a bit of a chillpill man. People are brainstorming a Legion idea, and then you started to froth at the mouth over ownership. Scroll above, it started naturally talking about ideas from several points in this thread and the next.

>>49643392
I'm Alexandri.

>>49643346
Never to late to help fix them

>>49643435
I was wondering what the current status of them were.

>>49643401
Lol, if you're alexandri, you oughta know exactly why I was mad.

>>49643447
We are trying to figure out what to do, looks like it will be taking them to the drawing board and seei g what to keep amd what to scrap.

>>49643388
Yes, we would be writing a traitor legion. Also keep in mind that the whole idea of the american legion as it stands currently (the Liberators, if you're curious) is that they're super diverse. Because their primarch was the last to be found, they served under literally every other primarch, and loads of mortal generals to boot. There are 300,000 of the fuckers running around by the time the heresy kicks off, and different chapters have different tactics. Some are colonial-esque brightly colored warriors who fight with gunlines and canons. Others are savage frontiersmen and scouts. Some are mechanized battlegroups showing the filthy knife-ears and moss skins exactly what good old columbian armor tastes like. There are paratroopers, navy specialists, special forces super L337 operators.

Really the only theme that runs constant across ALL of them is that they've got access to a metric fuckton of men and materiel from the numerous systems around Columbia (their homeworld) that they conquered and subjugated.

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>>49643468
I invited you to a Roleplaying game on Saturdays but you couldn't make it due to complications happening at work unexpectedly.

Perhaps you can keep a more diplomatic tone with people having the name Anonymous, as they could represent new people or simply those in the project who don't feel the need to project themselves when not necessary? I'm just one commentator of many, at the moment.

And no, you were mad for precisely zero reasons and snapped at people who had no idea what you were talking about.

Take a moment and collect yourself.

>>49643475
While i like them having served with every other legion like that, i dont think that we should have their focus that, schizophrenic.

>>49643554
Neither do I, but if you have a completely American focused legion with american roots and references, all the eurofags lose their shit. Half of the last thread was spent with people trying to convince me that marines being werewolves, vampires, catholic nuns, emos, serial killers, and sharks was okay, but American marines was just too overt and ridiculous.

Sooo...Are there currently anons in this thread who would be willing to writefag for a Legion, or just in general? Because most of the Legions don't have writefags anymore and are really just becoming obstacles for those that do.

Alternatively, we could go on a cutting spree and open up the Hektor Heresy to a whole new set of writefags.

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>>49643612
Que?

>>49643593
It is no less rediculous than any of the other Legions, but still. Being Revolutionarys, Frontiersmen can be rolled into Cavalry and Airborne. Particularly since the Cav and Airborne along with the Marine Corps are the USs most recognizable units.

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>>49643612
Yes... If only you had people who were interested in writing...

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If we're proposing legions can I suggest this

>>49643664
One of the things that's been brought up is how, given how diverse the legion is and how much reorganizing there was in the legion after the primarch was found, there could be a dynamic of the lower ranks and soldiers seeing their generals and admirals as pompous and a bit pretentious.

You could have the lower ranks and gropos being us army style bloodthirsty warriors, looking to just go forth and give 'em hell, and the officers tend to get more and more idealistic and aristocratic the higher up the food chain you go.

You could have a competative rivalry between the elites and the enlisted me.

Maybe we could have more mid-ranked commanders rather than one or two high-ranked commanders. Colonels, perhaps a bit lower than a console. So rather than your typical marine army with its

>Centurion Uber with Chaplain Bob leading the seventh chapter

you could instead have

>Colonel Green and the 81st Warhawks
>Chief Hoss and the 4th Ranger Brigade
>Lieutenant Dresden and his armored Battallion.

Maybe allow more customization of lower ranks and officers, but make it rare to see a centurion in any but the largest battle.

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>>49643612
I'm working on some entombed writefaggotry, a short story from the pov of a skitarii maniple leaderin the 666th expedition just after the VIth Primarch is discovered and subsequently entombed in his ossuary dreadnought of (Johannes? Emperor? Both?) design. Focused on the conquest of the Sepulchra system and the response to craftworld Kaelor's appearance in-system.


In terms of wiki pagess full of troop organizations and shit though, I'm not much help sory ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>49643670
Yes...And if only we didn't already have like, nine Legions already without writefags before we added another one.

>>49643828
No one wants to work on someone else's abandoned passion project.

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Just to help explain what's going on, the current numerations are tied to the various Anons:

I: Lumey
II: Lumey
IV: Alexandri
V: Lumey
VI: No one, but pretty complete
VII: Need of take over and revision, no author
IX: Taken by Cromwald Anon, but absent as of late
X: Luigi Anon, but hasn't added much to the page ever, people are invested in their idea, so a writefag could develop that idea on his behalf - not something he's against.
XI: Brennus Anon
XII: DEGuy
XIII: Uriel Anon
XIV: Committee headed by Bloodseer
XV: Alexandri
XVI: Aubrey Anon
XVII: Merrill Anon
XVIII: No one, b ut the ideas there should be enough.
XIX: Lumey
XX: Merril Anon

>>49643864
That's, patently not true. I want to work on the Black Augurs but people tell me I'm overlogged at the moment already, so they haven't allowed me. Now we have new Anons helming it.

>>49643869
>VII: Need of take over and revision, no author
I already have dibs on that. As might bloodseer depending on how this words out in the future. So help me god we're going to make this American Legion thing work, Lumey be damned.

Oh, and Aralex ( >>49643468 ), if you want to get in on the ground floor of this, you're more than welcome.

>>49643358
Oh shit. We're on totally different wavelengths here.

I'm angling for 80's American Armed Forces.

>>49643365
I wouldn't say Big Boss. Kojima's characters tend to be far too philosophical for my purposes

>>49643898
I have no idea what you're talking about. The American Legion idea needs a working outline before anyone agrees on anything.

I had to step out. Have I missed anything of note, specifically about the VII Legion?

Also I'll take VII, if I can

>>49643880
>people tell me I'm overlogged at the moment alread
Fuck 'em, if you want to work on them, do it. Clear it with the Voidwatcher anon, and if he's cool with it, get writing. There's a lot of people on this project, but most of them aren't actively writing at the moment, so if you want to contribute, do it where you want.


>>49643901
Read these
>>49643475
>>49643808

I'm very much willing to compromise, and making disparate fluff fit together is one of the things I've gotten really good at while working on the primarch rules.


>>49643918
Yeah, we're hammering things out now.

>>49643898
Arelex was the writer for the II:War Scribes but Lumey ran him off, then also took over the page, on the basis of cleaning it up. But apparently he just overhauled a ton as he saw fit.

The proposal for what to do with the Augurs - ie the airborne stuff - was what Arelex had written the War Scribes to be before as he put it "caught a truckload of shit from Lumey".

He's lamenting the fact you're suggesting doing the same but Lumey/no-one else is giving you shit for the thing that drove him out the project.

>>49643869
when you lay out the pattern, it becomes obvious how bad things are.

>>49643936
Seventh legion slot is currently (technically) held by Camaxtli, but no one likes it, so some of us are throwing around the idea of an American Legion (working title Liberators) to take their place. It's not official yet though, so if you want to pitch something, feel free.

>>49643984
>no-one else is giving you shit
You should see the last thread.

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>>49643936
That requires a good outline for the Legion. Whether or own idea or an expansion of what's there.

>>49643964
Nah, I've lowered my commitments to the project to head a more managerial role, editing old stuff, integrating old stuff, and updating stuff. The Sons of Fire are waiting an impeding rewrite, that I'm planning for soonish.

>>49643984
Read Lumey's stuff. It's good. Why else would we tolerate it all? It's not THAT bad.

>>49643984
Technically, I did tell him to "Do what he had to do" and tossed him the keys to the Gloriana.

I was just so beyond tired of fighting with him all the time I didn't care anymore.

So strictly speaking, he did have the right to burn it all down and rework it however he pleased, I can't deny that in good conscience. Originally I never intended to set foot in these threads again, but... What can I say, I'm a sucker for revitalizing old history.

#ConstantinopleEndures

>>49644078
What were your original ideas for this american legion? Lumey is a lot less likely to try and veto it if you've got two other writefags trying to back up the idea, which it seems like we do.

>>49644112
Lumey never did anything, he just suggested(forcefully) alternatives to a point Arelex gave up.

It's a minor distinction but an important one.

>>49644181
Okay, nevermind lumey, what ideas were you originally bringing up for the legion? I'm not trying to perpetuate drama, I'm just trying to get people's input as I keep building up this seventh legion. I already have a lot of work done, but I want people's input (and contribution, if they're so inclined).

>>49643992
>>49643964
So I've read your outline and really, this is the only legion I care about, as a Paratrooper.

My biggest, and honestly only complaints, is the Revolutionary aspect, it doesnt mesh well with the modern military aspects

>>49644112
I'd Writefag the shit out of Airborne Cav Marines.

>>49644227
The original idea was the current ones on the page for the 7th.

>>49644252
I'd more clearly lay out why you think the modern and revolutionary doesn't mix, as there is Ancient world and Medieval influences all over this project and canon 40k.

>>49644281
Airborne Cav Marines where the First Company would literally be the 1/7th

>>49644296
It just doesnt seem roght to mix 1700s guys with a concept about mixing Paratroopers with Vietnam AirCav

>>49644252
Like I said, I'm more than willing to compromise.

Another thing I've been considering is mixing the two ideas into "eras" if you will. Like, in the primarch's early life and initial days of the legion reuinifying we lay on the early american melting pot themes, which fits the legion coming together and their expansion outward from Columbia to take the systems around it, making them a massive industrial power with all the worlds they now control.

Then, as time goes on and more and more native born marines join the legion, they take on a more modern military doctrine.

Also there's no reason we really can't have both, as mentioned here >>49643808

>>49644296
>The original idea was the current ones on the page for the 7th.
Are you talking about 1d4chan? Because the current 7th legion is camaxtli's.

>>49644112
Going to get food, so I'll be back in a bit, but really it wasn't anything to do with America at all.

For everything I wrote on Scribes material, good or bad, I made up the names, made up the places, and just wrote what felt right. I didn't draw on any cultural themes (intentionally at least), because I felt that it would give me more freedom to write without being pre-judged or pigeonholed into following tropes set by other authors/historians/whoever.

My "big idea" which Lumey rejected was Vertical Envelopment.

From the very beginning of this project, I wanted the War Scribes to have the largest fleet. Not Legion, just the ships, because I love the Rogue Trader RPG. These ships would be fueled by the Atalantos Worlds' stupendous output, one of the few things that seemingly everyone liked about my work, lol.

So, the War Scribes doctrine would follow the general pattern:

1: Assume Naval Control. Cut individual sectors/planets off from their support.

2: Assume Air Control: Cut army segments, hive cities, fortresses, whatever, off from their support.

3: Assume Ground Control: Land the heavy shit like tanks and artillery, make sure everything in an area is locked down so that you can use your heavy assets most efficiently. Also Drop Pods may be liberally used at this point, in preparation for Step 4.

4: Assume Local Control: This is where the Marines really get shit done, going into whatever bunkers, tunnels, forts, underhives, you name it, to ferret out and kill the enemy in detail. And of course if steps 1 through 3 go to shit at any point, that's also the Marines' job to hop out and handle, whether land/air/space.

(And of course, Marines are also flying the Thunderhawks and other combat vehicles, it's not like they're all sitting in the Battle Barge)


Keep in mind, I have as much combat experience as the average housecat. This all may be bullshit, strategy wise. Lumey certainly felt that it wasn't "enough of a Legion Doctrine".

>>49644409
>>49644112
So if you want the American Culture to be a part of whatever your work is, feel free, you won't be stepping on my toes.

I attempted to write down a doctrine of battle/combat style, not a "hat" for my Legion.

>>49644409
Well Lumey was just being pissy cause it wasn't what he wanted. Orbital Doctrines are enough for a Legion, look at the Blood Angels.

Look at the Luna Wolves whose whole deal is "Hurr we cut the head off the snake." By doing what you ask? Being really good at Orbital.

Or hey what was one of the Imperial Fists specialties? Oh right having a huge Navy. Building was just something they did to secure once they took a planet.

>>49644425
I think this is where 82ndBro and O are getting our wires crossed with Josman. Mostly were have what we want for the Legion planned out by doctrine, which is US Paratroopers and AirCav, a by product of that being the culture of those units.

Where, i might be wrong, Josman is planning the Culture to shape doctrine?

>>49644409
>>49644470
>Orbital drops and huge Navy
This is something that both the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, and Space Wolves also did.

>>49644425
So are you interested in doing any writing, or was that just you granting the project your blessing?

>>49643387
>ballpark of how he'd work on the field.

Uriel is a good fighter, more of a brawler than a duelist though. He wins through borderline paranoia levels of preparation and research, an unhealthy dose of grit, quick wits, and uncanny luck. He's like Garth Ennis' Punisher, or Frank Millers Batman.
I'm reasonably sure he's a team player, definitely leans that way, but he has some lone wolf tendencies, mostly in mindset though. He'll put himself on the line to save his men though.

Doctrine wise, he's a strategy guy - tries to win by controlling and restricting the enemy in every way possible. That relies on good intel, speed, surprise, and coordination.
He was created as the weapon against chaos, and as the executioner of the roster, he is the emperors hatchet man. So he's good against psykers at the least.

He approaches everything with research, makes a point of trying to know things before he needs to. When he doesn't know something, he'll rely on misdirection, strategic and tactical agility, and creative solutions to produce victory.

It's late here in the UK, so sorry if this makes little sense. I'm known for having trouble being concise...

>>49644526
>So are you interested in doing any writing

Well, that is the million dollar question isn't it? Honestly I'm a little gunshy of trying to write again. The Scribes have gone through an enormous amount of writing and rewriting already.

If you really want to do the whole drop troop/airpower thing, I'll step back and let you do it. At the moment, the Scribes don't do those things, so there's little harm in doing so.

Who knows, maybe someday I'll think of another idea which inspires me enough to write! But waiting on me is no reason to stop people who actually want to write *now*.

>>49644296
Of course, and honestly I'm flexible and if you could convince me that it would work then I would be happy to oblige

Sorry had to attend to unit things. These threads move fast man.

In the interest of comprise and understanding does anyone want to hear my thoughts/Outline on the Murica Legion?

>>49644252
Well the Liberators are one being thrown around 82ndBro and I were using a different name and the bulk of the Airborne(Cav) concept.

>>49643898
No reason you, 82ndBro, Arbites Anon and I cant form a committee.

>>49643901
I was thinking a mix of 40s Paratroopers and 60s AirCav

and fair enough on BB, just a point for how he'd 'give them purpose'

>>49644512
I'm not especially worried about culture. I have three things I really want to be in the final project.

1. The primarch should sincerely believe in democracy.
I want this because I think it would be a really, ''really'' fun idea to do some writing around. How a pluralistic democratic society could become evil and chaotic, and how the "good" guys in 40k would contribute to it.

2. The legion should be one of the last to find their primarch, and should be fractal and spread out before he rallies them.
This brings up the melting pot principle that allows it to be super diverse, which as two benefits. First, it has the potential for lots of loyalists when the heresy kicks off, which keeps the new uber-powerful legion from throwing the balance of power in the heresy out of whack. Second, it means that you aren't stuck with one hat for military doctrine, which leaves us a little wiggle room.

3. The legion should be one of the most numerous, and one of the most powerful.
Again, following themes of America. A relatively young force that nonetheless becomes a superpower because of a massive influx of people, and an abundance of natural resources. Again, has all kinds of writing potential.

Beyond this I don't care that much.

>>49644575
If there are three of us who really want to work on the project, Lumey's less likely to complain about it. You're more than welcome. Once we get the bones laid out we can start figuring out who will be writing what.

>>49644668
>>49644636
Or is Arbites Anon 82ndBro?

>>49644670
Being too much of a generalist force caused a lot of head butting the first time around.

>>49644392
Camaxtli left the project.

>>49644670
>uber-powerful legion
Can you clarify this bit for me, please.

How are they uber-powerful?
Compared to the other legions?

>>49644636
>your thoughts
Yeah, hit me.

I think it might be best for everyone who wants to get in on the ground of this project to lay out exactly what points they really want in there (as I did here >>49644670 ), and we'll go from there.

>>49644668
>No reason you, 82ndBro, Arbites Anon and I cant form a committee.
Lets do it.

>>49644689
>Being too much of a generalist force caused a lot of head butting the first time around.
Have you read Lumey's legion rules? If he's complaining about generalists, he can bite me.

>>49643869
Roman here, I welcome additions and edits to Steel Marshals. College and work is just keeping me down.

>>49644668
>>49644689
>>49644706

I am 82nd bro. Stationed at Fort Bragg.

What's good niqqas

>>49644706
I have read them yes, and he was complaining about it because too many people were doing it.

>>49644734
Then we have the formation of the Committee, checks and balances, endless bickering.

Just like America.

#Makethe7thGreatAgain

>>49644706
Could you please form an outline? A concise idea addressing issues had before?

I don't mean to piss on your parade, but it's literally never worked out just wiping a Legion's work and replacing it with someone's else efforts.

Can you just all discuss, agree, and present a working summary of what the Legion is about, their story, their fall, and influence after the Heresy?

Again, I don't want to be a dick, I really don't. I love this enthusiasm,
but I caution talking like this is a done deal.

>>49644692
Yes, thank you, I know. That doesn't change the fact that his legion is what's up for the VII on 1d4chan, thus leading to my confusion about what you mean.

>>49644704
The idea is that they'd be one of the workhorse legions, a la Iron Warriors or Ultramarines. HUGE numbers, with a large economic and industrial mass, based around their home systems. The idea is to parallel America, the new guy on the block who very suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere to the perspective of the other world powers, became a superpower. There were always a lot of them, but they were never a unified force until their primarch was found, being seconded to a dozen other generals and warzones. So when they come together on the primarch's industrial powerhouse home systems, people suddenly realize that the Seventh is a much bigger deal than they though.

>>49644765
And totally learned that being Highly (air)Mobile was the best way to go about things after meeting their Primarch and reforming, since it also quickly allowed them to move around their system.

>>49644670
>Once we get the bones laid out

Yeah, you and the others who are working together should probably decide on what you want to do first. Get that settled, then establish if it conflicts with the Scribes in whatever form.

And nothing says that if I did start writing again, I couldn't go aaaaaaall the way back to my roots.

Archaeotechnology/High-Tech Marines.

Archaeotech might still be a little too "bullshit power" to add to a Legion as their theme, but I still kind of like the idea of a Legion that has every toy imaginable, in quantity, and with 50 copies of the blueprints hidden away in secret caches because "What was once lost must never become so again".

(Now, I got accused of being the AdMech Marines on multiple occasions wit that one, so.... idk. It's probably meh also, but it's whatever).

>>49644765
Shit, maybe you should just take over the Scribes yourself.

>primarch's industrial powerhouse home systems

That's basically the Atalantos Worlds you're describing already.

>>49644759
>#Makethe7thGreatAgain
Word.

>>49644761
>form an outline
The three of us that are on this need to work out bones first. Give it time. No need to hover, we'll get something hammered out and let everyone know when we've got a rough draft.

>It won't work to wipe them
But it will, because Camaxtli and his legion did exactly jack shit. You can wipe away his entire legion, and how many other pages does it actually affect? One or two maybe?

>Can you just all discuss, agree, and present a working summary of what the Legion is about, their story, their fall, and influence after the Heresy?
That's literally what we're doing.

>Again, I don't want to be a dick, I really don't. I love this enthusiasm,
>but I caution talking like this is a done deal.
Fuck your caution, THIS IS AMERICA!!!


>>49644800
Makes sense.

>>49644806
>Archaeotechnology/High-Tech Marines.
Nigga what are you trying to do to me? When we get our shit done, I'm going to write up basic Legiones Astartes tactics for each legion, and now I have to balance an archeotech legion?... You know on second that that might not be as hard as I though it might be to balance, but it would get expensive quick. You'd probably be running less marines than any other army at the same point value.


>Shit, maybe you should just take over the Scribes yourself.
How about no.

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>>49644819
I shall optimistically take your sarcastic backtalk.

Sorry, I've just seen this play out. The 7th used to be my slot, then AS I WAS WRITING A SHORT STORY and massively overhauling, they gave my Legion away to the person who would be Camaxtli Anon without consulting me. But it continues -

They did the same to Camatxli Anon, but the Anon who did work on that made these guys: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Bloodbound

But when he disappeared, and Camatxli came back after an absence, they just deleted the work there.

The 7th slot has seen a lot of back and forth.

Take the name Storm Bringers, and this color scheme as a peace offering.

>>49644873
Someone saved the Marine I made.

I miss the Storm Bringers, and the story I wrote about them showing up to save Hektor's ass and reveal that the Legions were now a thing.

>>49644765
>>49644761
>>49644759
Alright lads, here's my initial thoughts and wishes for the VII Legion

>>>Primarch
>Raised by farmers on a fairly advanced world rocked by a world ending conflict over resources
>Enlists as soon as he can to beat back the filthy Reds/Sandpeople/Nazis
>War gets very intense, trench warfare and hive fighting mostly, but he rises through the ranks as a deadly and skilled soldier, leading Assaults and bunker raids personally, winning fights he shouldn't be with nothing more than a knife and a dozen men.
>The enemy nukes his country in a last ditch effort to win the war.
>This breaks something in him and he goes full Kilgore. Collecting heads, napalmimg the shit out of hospitals and civilian bunkers, killing prisoners/using them as meat Shields
>Primarch sets off the remaining Nuke Stock piles of the enemy after seizing them. Winning the war almost single handedly.
>Is heralded as a hero but at what cost?
>Retires and takes a shuttle off world, to live on the lonely Moon Colony. Shuttle fucks up and he drifts through space before his legion finally finds him

Next the Legion Pre-Primarch

>>49644670
>>49644765

>one of the most numerous
well Hektors Heralds are the most numerous by quite a way. They take a lot of the 2 lost legion guys to bolster them to about a quarter mil by the heresy iirc. And the Void Angels are the notUltras, so are the most prevalent geneseed wise. After that several legions trail behind various degrees but not that much. Only 2-4 are under standard strength of 100k. And most are like 120-150ish

In terms of power, biggest fleet, most serfs, most non marines, empires etc are all covered. Shit, diversity is even a 13th thing, though it's not a big deal, so a melting pot legion is fine.

Laying claim to power is going to be relative to the other legions, and Hektors going to be at the top in manpower at the very least, and Arelex and the Scribes in second because of the Atalantos Worlds and their giant fleet.

So far you're basically describing the old and possibly new War Scribes sans the Murrica stuff, which is kind of subtly there anyway.

This has always been a problem in the project, everyone always likes the same things; we've had several siege legions, tank legions, mobility legions... people often forget the other legions when they get an idea, and we quickly get tangled up. But no-one really wants the few untaken ideas people can generally come up with either.

>>49644862
>archaeotech

That was mostly just for some historical context.

>taking over the scribes
Seriously though, it sounds like you've already got your Legion overlapping like 70-80% of what my idea was. Why not just make it official, there wouldn't be room for the Scribes to come back to my previous vision anyway, because then *I'd* be overlapping *you*, lol.

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>>49644898
Nothing says you can't incorporate those ideas again, man.

>>49644903
Idea:

The Emperor arrives right before Nukes are launched. Puts a stalemate. A few generations pass, and the Nazis think they can win. When a Chapter of Legionnaires show up to dissaude them, THEN they nuke his home, and THEN he snaps.

Perhaps he never felt at home with the Imperium? And really only identified with his homeworld in the end? (Mirroring Robert E. Lee and the general attitude of allegiance to State before Nation with Americans. See that's how you do subtle bitches).

Also more experimental colorschemes.

>>49644806
Personally I like the idea of the Scribes as the Archaeotechnology/High-Tech Marines, mostly just because I think the Emprah would want to have something to pressure the AdMech with should push come to shove. Even as stupid as the guy is he'd want to continually reign them until they're fully under his control.

>>49644903

>>>Legion Pre Primarch
>Expeditionaries, recon marines, front runners.
>An even mix between assault and stealth specialization.
>Generally Happy go lucky, chipper, believe in what they fight for.
>Recruits from the front lines, since they are typically stretched too thin to get troops other wise.

Next Legion Post Primarch

>>49644920
Why not fold the Scribes into the VIIth? Which could free up the IInd or VIIth Slot for another Legion?

>>49644903
Do we want him to be full broken before he meets the Legion or after? Cause after could also work with what Josman has proposed about a more "Idealistic" Columbia.

>>49644945
Do you remember way back when, when Arelex died not to Chaos, but to the AdMech killing him because he didn't want to play by their rules regarding tech?

Arelex was and always had been loyal to Big E. And whatever his Legion dug up was meant for the Imperium as a whole. And that.... ruffled some feathers, and fucked up some power-bases.

So once again, I think it's kinda funny how history seems to repeat itself for the Scribes, somehow...

>>49644908
>we've had several siege legions, tank legions, mobility legions... people often forget the other legions when they get an idea, and we quickly get tangled up.

As if this is a past problem, a lot of Legions still have overlapping "specialties," it seems as though everyone wants their snowflakes to be the best at one or two things, and then be a close second at everything else to the Legions that have a different "thing" as their specialty. All at the same time.

Of course some Legions are better at this than others but the majority still do it.

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>>49644960
>Why not fold the Scribes into the VIIth? Which could free up the IInd or VIIth Slot for another Legion?

No.

First of all, Arelex relinquished control of the Scribes to Lumey. He gave that up. Lumey poured in a lot of time and effort into expanding them and building them up. It's not fair to him to make an executive decision to undo his work just because some people might be upset about something he said quite a time ago. Alright?

We have to be fair to people, it's the only way this project works.

I apologize if I'm coming off as intense, but I feel strongly about this.

>>49644944
Well that idea only really worked because the Storm Bringers were the First Legion originally.

>>49644960
I'd like the Scribes to continue existing as an entity, if only for vanity's sake. Even if it winds up being under a different author, or with completely different themes/ideas.

>>49644985
Yeah, I suppose. Like I said, I'm clearly biased against Lumey, so don't listen to me too much, everyone.

>>49644873
You shut your pessimistic mouth, commie, this IS AMERICA

Also, let the edit wars come. I'm ready.

>>49644903
>I primarch that fights resource wars
The rough drafts I'd had for him had him growing up in similar conditions on a world from which a Knight House ruled to extract resources, and things do nearly end in total nuclear war. Subtract the "nearly" and we're good.

>Blasts the world
One of the big themes i had for the legion was terraforming some worlds to feed their massive legion. How would you feel about the wonders of NOTamerican science healing the world after it's blasted?

>Retires and takes a shuttle off world, to live on the lonely Moon Colony. Shuttle fucks up and he drifts through space before his legion finally finds him
This seems oddly specific?

>>49644908
Well we're adding a giant drop legion. The Galaxy is a big place.

>>49644985
Well Lumey did the same thing to others, assigning Legions out from under people, erasing things. Being a general cunt and forcing people out.

Hell I was hardly away for like a week before the Storm Bringers were erased it seemed.

>>49644993
Fair enough

>>49644981
Yeah, I do and I honestly think bringing some of that back in might work.

>>49644946
They're supposed to be a workhorse legion, that's one of my big things.

>>49645018
>Lumey
You people worry too much. Having three writefags working on the same legion will make it a lot harder for him to just blast it.

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>>49644944
>experimental colorschemes

Here ya go, this is supposed to be the Pre-Primarch, very early Great Crusade colorscheme, meant only to inform other Legionnaires at-a-glance as to whom their fighting besides.

>>49645017
>terraforming some worlds

That's a pretty good theme to use. The Atalantos Worlds are mostly industry and mining focused, there's lots of room for a Legion to try and *feed* the Imperium.

Although do be careful about having a "Massive" Legion, that's 100% the Herald's thing as being the biggest.

(War Scribes have a xbawxhueg fleet, but those ships are of course manned by 95% Serfs and Auxilia, not Legionnaires themselves, the Legion itself is average-smaller than average size)

>>49645037
Im not worried about him, Im saying that I dont give a shit what he put into this.

>>49645037
I agree with being a work horse prior to theme meeting the Primarch and reforming.

>>49645018
>Well Lumey did the same thing to others
No? The Eyes of the Emperor Anon gave him his Legion.

So did the Sand Keepers Anon, and we made him merge those two together to keep the Scale Bearers.

No one knew what to do with the Heralds, no one ever made a better draft than his, and he won that on the merits of his writing and he's done great work there.

He never did anything without other people's consent, not ever.

>>49645037
Josman, I'd be careful turning your opinion full blast on Lumey without even meeting him.

And I'd recommend you read any of his Legions: The Eyes of the Emperor are my favorite, but he has the Void Angels, the Heralds of Hektor, and the War Scribes.

>>49644946

>>>Legion Post Primarch
>Holy shit our Primarch is fucking hardcore
>*beats face*
>*gets called a maggot*
>*Gives the Primarch 500*
>Primarch knows that pitched battles are some gay shit. Instead, get in there, hit em hard, fuck their shit up, kick em while theyre down, then get the fuck out.

>They transition tactics pretty easily but new tactics involve orbital insertion of Tracked and Wheeled assests to assist troops on the ground that have already dropped. Everyone drops via Pod.

>Strike teams will advance on high value targets, and placements of strategic value, crippling the enemy, while Cavalry units scout ahead and engage with enemy infantry and harry mechanized elements before retreating to extraction. If it comes. If extraction doesn't come, you're going to be fighting to the death until it does.

>Numbers begin take a hit due to riskier tactics, but field recruiting and recruitment from attached Imperial Army units allows to keep new Marines in near constant supply.

>The demeanour of the legion changes, many becoming more cynical or cocksure, a general ego building up in the legion as they view themselves as conducting the most dangerous campaigns using the most dangerous tactics, which is true to a degree. Friendly rivalries arrise from infantry and cavalry, each out doing eachother in challenges of kills and creativity therein. The legion has obviously adopted the Primarchs lust for blood and battle and his cruel streak, as well as his cocksure aditude and arrogance.

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>>49645076
THIS IS TER-

I keed. This is some good stuff.

Have some old 40k art.

>>49645066
>Josman, I'd be careful turning your opinion full blast on Lumey without even meeting him.
>And I'd recommend you read any of his Legions: The Eyes of the Emperor are my favorite, but he has the Void Angels, the Heralds of Hektor, and the War Scribes.
WOAH WOAH WHAT

Dude, I've met the guy and talked to him, but hang on. He controls the setting's three most powerful legions?.. So what you're telling me is that this whole project is his personal fanfic project that he just lets other people work on every now and then?...

Please tell me I'm misreading this, because this is a massive fucking red flag.

>>49645076
>>49644946
>>49644903

So these are my thoughts on them. Literally Gung Ho, Napalm sticks to kids, Vietnam/Iraq 1st Cav/82nd legion led by a horrific combination of Paton, Kilgore, Vining, and R. Lee Ermy.

Its the most /k/ legion, but I don't want to masturbate over how awesome my army is and how fun gunning down villages is because we have extra ammo. I genuinely want to use this legion to discuss the psyche of the killer soldier, the black humour of a combat ready unit, the toll that warcrimes and traumatic stress can take on even the best soldier.

Then, at the climax of the Heresy, I want those who even after everything are loyal to the Emperor to the end, and those either loyal to their Primarch or just want an excuse to shed more and more blood

What do you think of my vision. And where can we meet in the middle?

>>49645113
No thats pretty much exactly what it was and why it was always his way or the highway. Or why it at least always seemed that way.

At least life got busy and I went away and no longer had to speak with him.

Im just a bitter person who only ever seemed to but heads with him though. I cant recall a single time we agreed on something. Maybe once or twice if we both thought something was dumb.

>>49645113
>So what you're telling me is that this whole project is his personal fanfic project that he just lets other people work on every now and then?...
That's hardly correct. Sure he's a bit forceful but most of that comes from him being the organizer type and wanting to make things coherent, which I can totally understand even if I think he did take it too far some times.

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>>49645113
He wrote the Void Angels as literally inconsquential, and wanted to keep them that way. This was back when we had 30 legions.

He moved the Void Angels out of the Heresy to not deal with that.

Then people wanted Lumey to be our Ultramarines and come in later. He didn't want to agree, but we talked him into it.

The Heralds page was blank. I mean literally fucking blank with no one having any ideas for them for a fucking year. Lumey actually put ideas down there, and no one could really match up a better draft.

Golgothos talked about doing that, but never did, I even tried to help him, but the full idea never formed to really flesh out the Heralds. I even tried to take over the Heralds, but I just couldn't put up with the pressure of writing something so...in the spotlight?

The War Scribes were handed to him by Arelex. He's largely not changed what they are, just edited them down to something coherent. A lot of the text on there is Arelex's, with some fleshing out of minor character's attributed to Lumey.

Lumey controls nothing. He doesn't want to. He hates people throwing shit on him, he takes this at his own pace. He's helped other Anons, and done his best to outreach to new Anons. He's recruited a lot of the Anons who helped keep the project going over the months, contacting people and bringing them on.

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Well gentlemen, it's been fun!

I'm out.

Peace!

>>49645113
>his personal fanfic project

That has been mentioned before, yes.

But to be fair to Lumey, he only has the Scribes because I gave them to him, so that's really my fault.

>>49645164
What a sack of lies.

Although Uriel, I'll still get your rules done.

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>>49644945
hey good to see you back

>>49644983
True enough

>>49644985
one rule for some, other rules for everyone else.
It works for the west well right now...

>>49645017
>The Galaxy is a big place.
It is. But claims of power are relative to eachother. Everyone can claim to be the best, but as pointed out by the anon above, everyone ends up being the best and nothing makes sense.

Legions fight in all ways, but it doesnt mean they're the best at it.

>>49645033
seconded. Scribes were a popular legion in the past.

>>49645037
>Lumey
is one anon. In a group project. Everyone defers to him then bitches about him lording over people. Cognitive dissonance. I blame the schools.

People seem to like the idea anyway, but fitting it in is the hard part, as the rest of the project is a mis-mash of finished and unfinished work and bold unconsistent claims to power levels.

>>49645190
Clearly we remember two seperate people, cause his was an un-agreeable sack of shit. Much like I am being now.

>>49645113
>So what you're telling me is that this whole project is his personal fanfic project that he just lets other people work on every now and then?
Pretty accurate desu.

Wait, do you mean out for tonight, or out permanently?

>>49645221
This is me exiting the project.

Too many warning flags. Might hit it up every now and then to write people rules if they need it, and I'm definitely going to finish Uriel's rules.

>>49645177
No! Don't go! I crave feedback!
>>49645159

>>49645230
Don't go man, this Lumey fella ain't even around to bother us

If he does try to clamp down and get OCD...I mean this is the internet. We can literally just ignore him

>>49645192
don't quit the project yet, if thats what your last was about.

For a start Lumey hasn't been about for quite a while. And secondly, he's one anon. In a group project, he's either got the majority supporting him, or he doesn't.

Cuts have been discussed, and new ideas are being fleshed out. Old work needs updating, and sometimes new ideas take over old.

What i'm saying is, jumping ship now is premature. We can be a bit intense, but we aren't that bad are we?

Don't let rumours of one anon put you off.

This goes to all you for that matter.
The project is bigger than one person.

>>49645113
>3 legions by 1 guy
>setting needs to bulk cut legions
Solution seems obvious to me. People shouldn't be running more than 1. It dilutes their time and energy. Deters new folk and allows 1 person to accumulate 'power' as seems to be the case here.

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>>49645230
Can you at least entertain another perspective?

Because Bloodseer left for a year.

And so did Golgothos.

I've been here, and so has Uriel for that time, and both of us have the consensus that "this is a group project Lumey never forced anything on anyone".

Lumey actually, never wanted to write so many goddamn Legions either. The Eyes of the Emperor were out of obligation, because the Anon who came up with them asked him to keep them involved.

He was willing to axe the Void Angels, his own project, to keep them in when we started cutting down Legions.

Just think about that before leaving, please?

>>49645272
>setting needs to bulk cut legions
No?

There are two Legions without much to them, and two outdated ones.

The rest are far along, with Anons.

And you'll find Lumey's are the most fleshed out. Could people actually go read them before discussing this?

Seriously, to all the people trash talking Lumey - how many have read even one of his Legions?

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Heralds_of_Hektor
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Eyes_of_the_Emperor
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Void_Angels

>>49645272
there are fewer people than legions

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>>49645237
Honestly, the more I see it the more I realize that I was working on a totally different wavelength as you two. I more wanted to focus on the bright, optimistic side of American culture and history that would slowly devolve into your kind of craziness as time goes on. They were always going to be competitive and a bit dickish, but not psychopaths, at least not right out of the gate.

I still think you'll come up with something cool though, so go forth with my blessing. When you finish your primarch, I'll write him up some rules (that is, after all, what I'm actually good at, not like writefagging).

>>49645267
That's not just it. You guys have a different thing going on, so I don't mind stepping off to give you your space. Throw any rules requests my way and I'll happily chug them out and playtest them for you.

Also there's the fact that literally every writefag has complained about the chaotic, dissonant nature of the project, and I am WAY too OCD to keep that kind of thing up for long. I'm a numbers and statistics guy, I don't always handle chaos well.

>>49645272
>Setting needs to bulk cut legions but you can only bulk those legions in pre-approved ways that don't outshine the existing legions.

>>49645277
See above points, and consider.

>>49636210
I DONT KNOW anything about warhammer, but that guy on the upper left has a really nice fuzzy cape. It reminds me of tarantula fur.

>>49645277
He must have seriously mellowed the fuck out in that year then, because this doesnt sound like the same Lumey.

If he wants to leave its his choice.

>>49645297
Im not overly fond of the Eyes, but I mostly remember the old version and I have never liked the Void Angels, even before Lumey and I butted heads.

>>49645312
>Setting needs to bulk cut legions but you can only bulk those legions in pre-approved ways that don't outshine the existing legions.
THIS.

>>49645297
>>49645324
I do like the Heralds though, he did a good job with them I think.

>>49645312
Alright. I'll definitely incorporate your stuff as best I can. How can I hit you up for rules, critique, and a second Opinion?

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>>49645312
If you noticed, Bloodseer and I both discouraged psychopath out of the gate approach.

But oh well. I can see your point. I just didn't want you leaving based on a skewered view of one anon.

>>49645324
He was always mellow, it's just people have a way of pissing him off.

Read the new Eyes. They're completely different.

>>49645327
We've worked in circles and circles cutting, adding, adding back in.

We just want to make sure people get a solid idea produced before unleashing the floodgates.

Is that so crazy?

>>49645312
I thought that was the point of committee, was for us to come to a consensus? I am more than willing for us to do both in regards to the Legion and I think we can.

>>49645312
>chaotic, dissonant nature of the project

I mean, that's just how the Internet is, I don't think it's ever not going to be that. So that much at least I don't think is accurate criticism.

>>49645297
My post didnt trash anyone. I said clearly that you guys have bulk legions that should be cut.

And that writers should maitain no more than 1.

Hows that trashing anyone? And ive read the legion pages.

If i were you, id go through and take a tally of every anon who is actively working on a legion. Cut anything that isnt. But thats just me.

>>49645359
It may have been that they had a way of pissing him off, but I did jack and shit to him when he first blew up on me and I wasn't gonna take that shit.

>>49645297
No one is trash talking him for being a bad writer. I know he's a good writer. Hell, the rules for Gaspard Lumey were some of the most fun to write. People are trash talking him for being a dictator.

>>49645339
I have a userpage on 1d4chan, feel free to drop me a note on my talk page at any time.

>>49645312
>pre-approved
what is this BS? As in they need not conflict with a theme already done? Cause that makes sense. Otherwise it sounds like BS.

>>49645371
So you're suggesting a 40k alternate setting with like four primarchs?

>>49645373
>>49645359
The old you cant make a second first impression and all that.

>>49645381
Exactly. Hell as a Legion and their Concept and Primarch I don't like the Void Angels, they are written well however.

>>49645371
Your request is implying that we should cut several developed Legions because they had a shared author. I was assuming you were saying we should slice Lumey's work because he can be a dick sometimes. And I quite like those Legions.

And to continue that, we're not that far behind. We just need SOME Legions finished.

>>49645373
Well I won't argue he had a special way of inciting hatred in people. But I once had the pleasure of setting down to chat with him in an instant message format and he comes across entirely differently. It's just the nature of his tone and how things get muddled in text.

>>49645386
Pretty much just make sure they're not something already done because we've been policing ourselves for the past two years on that. Several ideas we really liked were condensed into other Legions as Chapters, because they shared similar doctrines and themes.

If you look a year ago, we had FUCKING FIVE KNIGHT THEMED LEGIONS

>>49645394
That wouldn't be something I'd suggest for this but that could be interesting on its own[/sub].

>>49645381
Roger. I'll ping ya

>>49645359
Granted, I may not have articulated this well, but I don't want Generation Kill Final Season out of the gate either.

>>49645312
>Also there's the fact that literally every writefag has complained about the chaotic, dissonant nature of the project, and I am WAY too OCD to keep that kind of thing up for long.

It isn't always that way. We have been really ordered at times. Admittedly when Lumey wasn't around we had several anons project manage shit and that worked well while it lasted. It only stopped because people were averse to opposing Lumey because it happened a lot and ended in arguments, and people just want to write not fight over every little thing.

But he's not here. If he comes back an unequivocal behave or fuck off would suffice. Its a group project for fuck sake, if people melt when he's there he will get his own way. Stick around a bit longer, don't melt, and it might turn out ok.

You've nothing to lose at this point.

Also, the project has been slow until lately, the organisation will start kicking back in in short order. Uriel and Merrills anons often take lead on that shit

>>49645413
I can be very similar in that regard, infact Im pretty sure he and I both managed to agree once that we continued to butt heads through our similarities. But you know damage done.

>>49645394
>coz there are only 4 anons in this entire thread. Not like 20.

>>49645359
>I just didn't want you leaving based on a skewered view of one anon.
I've been very close to stepping off at multiple points throughout my work thus far. I don't know if you know this, but I didn't actually come on to the project as a writefag. I started by making rules for the primarchs that existed thus far, as a way to practice incorporating fluff into crunch when creating characters, which eventually led me to building the Primarch Creation Tables. I was never really a writefag here, I just figured I'd chip in because Lumey and Merrill made it out like they were looking for someone to write up a Seventh Legion. They were somewhat misleading in that, though I suspect accidentally so.

>>49645360
See the above.

>>49645386
Were you in the last thread?