Give the Sisters a full, fun, and profitable update without changing the aesthetic or making them worse Space Marines.I challenge you.
>>47946038I disregard your challenge and order you to ignore this post.
>>47946038So making them better Space Marines is okay, then?
>>47946075The idea is not to make them like Marines at all. The "make them like mehreens" ideas make them worse because they may as well just be Marines.
>>47946149But that's the whole reason for their existence. People wanted "female Space Marines." Cue Sister of Battle.
>>479460388Why do we keep having this conversation every day
>>47946038SoB won't be profitable without being an OP army like Tau or Eldar.Look at Dark Eldar. They got a full plastic update and now they're not even worth keeping in the game. A faction in this game only sells when it has shit people like such as OP rules, giant mechs, or are a fan favorite like marines and orks. SoB have none of these things.
>>47946038The only thing they need is new models+units, the current codex is pretty good but due to how limited everything is there really arent many options to what you can bring.I'd give Repentia squads the ability to inspire units, so everyone within 12'' of a Repentia can attempt to use their act of faith even if they already did so Repentia can always try to get their AoF Peninent Engines become T5 4+sv/FNP and add +1FNP for every other Engine in the squad, are troops instead of Heavy SupportGive SoB access to Hellhounds/Banewolves/Meltadog as a HS choiceThey could use an Anti-psyker unit, like a squad with a Null Rod and storm bolters with anti-psyker ammoSoB Centurions, a counterpart to the expendable Penitent Engines, each one has a Flamestorm cannon and can change it to a melta cannon. T4 2+sv, move 12'', one SoB can be upgraded to a Hospitaller.DIY Living Saint with their own relics/wargear.
>>47946183You're an idiot.>>47946225DE were big after their update. Give me ideas, not excuses.
>>47946301>Give SoB access to Hellhounds/Banewolves/Meltadog as a HS choiceTake IG as an ally instead of giving them units from the IG. Or, you know, actually give them their own tank.>SoB Centurions, a counterpart to the expendable Penitent Engines, each one has a Flamestorm cannon and can change it to a melta cannon.>make them like MarinesSisters fans...
>>47946331>DE were big after their update. Give me ideas, not excuses.And where are they now?
>>47946331You're the only idiot here. "Stop telling me why my shitty thread is stupid and pointless." Don't you have a quest thread to make on the wrong board, or a pointless chapter creation or "how would you change GW if you were CEO" shit thread to make?
>>47946464Next sisters thread, I'm linking this thread as soon as someone complains about no update.
>>47946038Not giving money to GW.
>>47946464Sisters and Marines were made contemporaneously, moron.CR: Sister Sin
>>47946374Native access prevents you from sperging about broken allies.I'd add scions to the codex too.>>47946301Give them an open topped transport, or something with an assault ramp to get cc units stuck in.
>>47946865>prevents you from sperging about broken alliesWho's me? I said nothing of the kind.
>>47946865>Give them an open topped transport, or something with an assault ramp to get cc units stuck in.SoB should quit using the Rhino and have two variants of Repressor, one with assault ramps and less fire points and the current one.
Do them in a boardgame, like the genestealer cult. If the boardgame does well, let forgeworld take over the line. If they sell well on forgeworld, put them in the next 40k starter set and give them the first codex of the new edition.That minimises risk; if one stage doesn't sell, you can abandon them again. If they do sell OK, you have a decent range of monopose models by the time their codex comes out and don't need to produce a ridiculous number of new kits.
Make Repentia and Penitente Engines work outside of the FOC. That way they don't use Elite and Heavy Support space.Focus around the AoF, make a synergy army, buffs and buffs.Bring some shitty tarpit unites, like pilgrims, men and women given Autoguns.Make a tacticool religious army. With Faith, Chainsword and Bolter. Also fire a lot of fire.
>>47947469How would you make a standing Ecclisarch army that doesn't violate it's own rules? Maybe Sisters can be given the Storm Trooper treatment where they can be fielded alongside Imp guards or maybe have church followers that are like Imperial cultist without having to go Red Redemption
>>47947492Frateris Militia. Witch Hunters.They also need a big overpowered LoW unit for the $$$.
>>47947492Im picturing it on the lines of the Crusades, the romantic idea thou. There is the official Church Army, the SoB and then anyone can join to fight, hence the pilgrims with shitty guns.Or a military version of the Vatican guards. Then again if marines are the shock and awe of the Imperium the sisters could be that but for the church.
>>47947842No get fucked, no fraternis otherwise what is the point of sisters ???Witch hunters sure, that gives you an anti psyker unit
>>47947883That's how I would imagine it. A high ranking ecclisarch gets a wild hair up his ass and the backing of imperial forces to launch a crusade so the local chapter of sisters get geared along with any pilgrams in the area. They are certainly no imperial guard but bolstered by the faith of the sisters and maybe a few Ordo hereticus forces they can see their way through.
>>47948233Frateris Militia are canon and are shitty cultists of the loyalist mold.
>>47946464What in your opinion is /tg/ for exactly?
Mass blobs of imperial civies is a cool idea though. They aren't part of the church, they have just taken up arms after seeing the sisters roll through town/the hive stack.That way they have some cheap blob units say WS 2 bs 1 LD 6 or 8 when within 6" of a sister.
>>47948294They were disallowed as an organization.If you are playing in the past sure go hard, but if your playing in the 41st nah mate.
>>47948326>bs 1Why are they worse shots than Chaos Cultists and Orks?
>>47948347Those are the Frateris Templars you twit.
>>47948372I was think because unlike cultists or orks they are improvised troops, the carpenters, farmers, women and children joining up for reasons of faith, while cultists are normally your murders etc.
>>47948383Fair enough my bad.
>>47948426Pretty sure most Chaos Cultists are improvised too and at most may have just done a little bit of training. Somehow doubt the majority even survive their first battle since I can't imagine many CSM giving two fucks about them living.
>>47948426Even Conscripts are BS2 though.
>>47948426>>47948372I'd put them at BS 2. I mean, that's the same stats as Conscripts.
SoB should become more focused >more fire based stuff >more focus on close range (meltas/flamers/blessed weapons)>Frateris Militia as non-compulsionary troops (mobs/tarpits of extremely shitty humans lead by a priest with the priest as a lynchpin)>make AoF a tiny bit better>do more of a re-balance than flat buffs>make a fluffy SoB "on loan" formation that can easily be allied into other Imperial ForcesOverall I think it'd be better if SoB became more Anti-Horde/Close Range as their niche in the Imperium Armies to reduce overlap. I'd figure that SoB should be somewhere in between IG and Skitarii power-levels if we're doing a infantry to infantry comparison since that'd be right where they are in the fluff. holy fuck I'm sick of people wanting SoB to be 1 to 1 equals compared to SM. Faith, slightly better than IG training, and a vagina doesn't make you the equivalent to a human genetically modified explicitly for the purpose of killing things. The worst part is that it's not actually the SoB players making the noise most of the time. It's the people who "like" the idea of the SoB or "fans" who want them outshooting and outfighting the SM because that sounds good in their head. I'm trying really hard to not go full "/v/" here but I think anyone who's had experience with "SoB fandom" knows what I'm talking about.
>>47948326They should interact with the AoF in some way. Random people accomplishing miracles is my fetish.
>>47948996OP here. I agree. Hence the caveats.It seems like all /tg/'s suggestions are either "make them MEQ", "change their very distinctive armor", "give them units from other codices", or a combination of the above.
>>47948996>I think it'd be better if SoB became more Anti-Horde/Close RangeBut hordes already suck.If only they could be anti-giant mecha, but I don't think that fits their fluff.
>>47949417I feel like you could give them a LoW or two with nasty megameltas.They already have giant mobile battle cathedrals on tracks or wheels or even spider legs in fluff.
>>47946038I'm sure GW doesn't mind some stealing.
>>47949780>half-alien raised by aliens in a xenotech suit of armour>the most fanatically xenophobic factionYeah, perfect choice, cretin.
>>47946038Give them a plastic start collecting box and also a plastic box of 10 sisters that can make a variety of their infantry units. Give them a new elite and maybe a fast attack choice with their own plastics and then update the rules. That's it.
>>47949882>half-alien raised by aliens in a xenotech suit of armour>implying xeno tech won't be approved if beneficial
>>47949629I think a Seraphim squad armed with 10 pairs of Inferno Pistols deep striking next to almost any single enemy would vaporise it, especially if they had a way to land more reliably.Of course, people might get pissed off in a similar way to the Scatter Bikes, so maybe a 5 pair limit so it's not so guaranteed to take something down with 1 squad. Or maybe people won't hate them since they're not very durable and are so short ranged.
>>47946038>Repressor gets an Assault Ramp and TL Heavy Flamer>Penitent Engine becomes an MC with a Dreadknight statline but no armor save, moves to Fast Attack>Immolator can choose between TL Autocannon, TL Multi-Melta, Flamestorm Cannon >Exorcist can be squadroned, weapon changed to S8 AP1 30" Heavy D3 Armorbane (they're Melta missiles, after all)>Seraphim get a special rule to reroll failed Invulnerable saves, Angelic Host formation sticks around and increases that to 5+, as well as letting them Deep Strike and assault in the same turn>Repentia get standard FNP, AoF gives them Eternal Warrior for a turn (to give them a save against S6 and better)>Avenger replaced with Vulture and Vendetta
>>47949412truly a momentous task for the ages>>47949417>But hordes already suckOh I know anon but it'd be fluffy and that's a sacrafice I'd be willing to make.>t.Ork player>>47949629>pic relatedMaybe three super heavies based on one chassis?>super Immolator (MELTA+transport)>super Exorcist (double stacked battery ala Minotaur Artillery Tank)>literally a church/shrine tank (choice of different AOE buff options per turn + transport)
>>47949957Codex: Inquisition is not Codex: Adepta Sororitas. Have you noticed that?
>>47950162*sacrifice fuck I'm tired
>>47949957Not even Imperial tech gets approved, even if it's useful. When was the last time you saw a Sister carrying a Hotshot Lasgun? And they're even the chamber militant that gets called in when the Inquisition needs to deal with rogue Space Marines.
>>47950055Only two nitpicks: first, give them a unique flyer or two instead of giving them IG shit.Second is more for preference. If the Guard get a shitty old tank with a fucking Inferno Gun (Malcador Infernus), the sisters should get an Inferno Gun unitl of some type.
>>47950215Never, because bolt/flame/melta is a holy trinity to them.
>>47950010>tfw you realize it's impossible to DS ten models into melta range for the pistol>>47950055I'm okay with most of this, but they should get a flyer of their own instead of borrowing an IG one. A vector dancer flying immolator that keeps its transport capacity for 100-120 points would be pretty cool.
>>47950328I'd be happy with some kind of assault vehicle or Repentia that didn't suck so much balls.Repentia and Penitentes engines should get eternal warrior and feel no pain.Their entire point is to die in combat, not die walking towards combat.
>>47950296Inferno Cannon is a Titan-class weapon though, and Sisters don't have a tank chassis to mount it on. I'm not sure I'd want them to, either; having weaker models but more numerous than Space Marines seems like part of their flavor to me.>>47950328Damn, that would be awesome, especially if it had a Flamestorm Cannon option. It's like a baby Heldrake. Maybe 150 points would be more reasonable for it?
>>47950172Yes but one of them is far more likely to be squatted than the other. What will happen next?
>>47950629You mean when Hereticus Inquisitors are mixed to C:SA, Malleus to GK, and Codex: Deathwatch comes out with the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and characters?
>>47950476>Sisters don't have a tank chassis to mount it onBut they could have a superheavy with one. What's the reason they shouldn't?
>>47950328>it's impossible to DS ten models into melta range for the pistolThat's only a problem when dealing with vehicles, the monstrous creatures are what's giving me trouble. Though maybe if someone played Imperial Knights at my friendly local gaming store I'd be more concerned.
Space marine fluffers.They get buffs based on the type of "geneseed" collected
>>47950801Oh, you. Fun fact, it originally was literally called "gene-sperm".
>>47950735>He wants to encourage superheavyhammerGive them a 2500 point spider basilica bristling with Flamers and with a monster Meltagun that adds 2 to the Destroyer table against vehicles at half range or less.>>47950785That's what Exorcists are best at. Take at least 4 or 5 in every army over 1250 points. Or ally in some Gray Knights, Instant Death is fantastic against MCs.
>>47951214>>He wants to encourage superheavyhammer>he would rather ignore meta
>>47946038Can they even get plasma weapons or lascannons? I think the only unit that can take a plasma gun is a priest. A bit of variety in weaponry will always help, and it keeps sisters from being only an anti-infantry force if they can get more than meltas. Also, throw in some Frateris Militia. Give them a stateline similar to cultists, and let the girls have some meatshields. Maybe even have some pyskers, or make their faith work a little more like pysker powers - the lore's already pushing Emperor worship that way, with the Lost and the Damned being Emperor daemons now, so no need to make it something it's not.Also, despite what you want, I think they at least need an option for variety in asthetic. Half the reason people like most of the other factions is since they can customize them so heavily - you can have knightly Space Marines, high-tech Guardsmen, or tribal Orks. Sisters need that variety.
Codex: EcclesiarchySisters of Battle, Assassins and Templar. Maybe Grey Knights, who knows.
Random ideas for possible new Sister stuff.>Loyalist-flavored Sonic Blaster - spews prayers of the Emperor and holy edicts at the enemy>Giant Aquila on Wheels - big symbol of the Emperor, gives nearby sisters an increased Invunerable save. The wrath of the Emperor is strong upon any who fire on these holy sisters, doing some damage/or forcing them to make a Leadership test or reduce their stats for a turn.>Onager - like an Exorcist, but more anti-infantry instead of anti-vehicle. Missiles leave lingering flames?
>>47951340I'd rather use the meta to my advantage and use my many fast moving Melta wielding units to overwhelm my opponent's superheavies.
>>47951441>the Lost and the Damned (as in the codex that's now Heretics and Renegades from FW) being Emperor daemons nowu wot m8
>>47951932Sorry, I meant Legion of the Damned.
>>47951771>Loyalist-flavored Sonic Blaster - spews prayers of the Emperor and holy edicts at the enemyYou mean the Laud Hailer?
>>47951961The codex gives like five different possibilities as to what they are. From the Fire Hawk one to the daemon one to faith constructs to space marine ghosts to time travellers.
>>47946038Decent heavy armor would be a nice start
>>47951782Realism, anon. You can't not have a superheavy unit and get a GW release. Not as a full codex, not these days. Even DE have them.
Dominion Squads could use a small change to their act of faith. It's amazing with melta, but useless if the squad takes flamers instead. Maybe something simple, like flamers gain +1 strength in addition to the normal ignore cover.
>>47952048>Even DE have themWait, what? Really?
>>47952153>Look out up>It's just a RevenantWho cares? You'll never be able to field it in a game under 3000 points without having the other guy pack up and walk off. I've got no problems with those, Apocalypse is cool.
>>47952153Tantalus. Good counter to Titans as per their formation.
>>47952301That's not a superheavy, it's a Dark Eldar Land Raider. As if the Land Raider didn't already have problems not exploding on the first turn.
>>47952381Land Raiders don't get special rules for ignoring Invulnerable Saves. They also don't zip around like all Eldar vehicles do, which is a major advantage.If a glass cannon faction gets them, so should Sisters.
>>47951973That just lets you rerolled some tests - I'm talking an actual offensive weapon that's unique in being one of the only Sonic weapons in the Imperium. It even sort of fits the Sister profile.
>>47948233>>47947492According to the current codex and some of the rulebooks the Ecclesiarchy only follow the spirirt of the no-men-at-arms rule which is why we get crusaders, pentientiant engines, death cult assasins,arco-flagellants and frateris militia.
>>47952692The whole Imperium works on such workarounds of written law for the sake of what's required to keep fighting. It's actually kind of fascinating:Death Cults aren't officially Ecclisiarchy forces as much as private groups of faithful believers. Same with Frateris Militia, and the Crusaders are part of their own Crusader Houses.Penitent Engines and Arco-Flagellants are ways to punish those who have been heretical, and aren't technically military forces per se, as much as they are seeking death as their punishment.And then you have the Sisters getting exclusive rights to the Exorcist, which isn't allowed under any Imperial ruling.
>>47952778Frateris Militia isn't a standing army. It's just a bunch of dudes that train to fight in their free time and volunteer when the Ecclesiarchy asks who wants to go lynch some heretics. Same deal with death cults, except being badass is a full time job for them.
>>47946183This was in the first book GW ever produced for the entire 40k franchise.You literally have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
*Give St. Celestine Eternal warrior.*Let all of their AOF using once a turn each squad not one a game but still if they whiff on their leadership they can't use it and blew it.*All non-HQ non-vehicle battle sisters 1-2 pt drop across the board.*Give repentia able to strike at ini, change their AOF to add in +1toughness with their FNP.*Pen engines turn into either MC with toughness 6, fleet, that +3 to move ability that ad mech have OR a drop of 10 pts and more weapon options.*make their apoc only formations useable in normal games*Cultist as an alternative troop choice (half-joking)*Bring their flyer from FW over to normal*Retributor squads make it ALL can each take one item from the heavy weapons list.*Switch Dominion squad to elite*Celestian squad into FA and turn them into jump infantry, angelic visage, power weapons for 4 of them, storm shields for up to two with one for superior for a max of 3......for a start.
>>47952847Frateris Militia isn't even necessarily an actual militia, though some are as organized as the Redemption Cult. Here's a quote from the Lexi:>The existence of the Frateris Militia is tolerated due to the fact that they have no formal connection to the Ecclesiarchy: they are no more than faithful Imperial citizens eager to prove their dedication to the Imperial Cult. The raising of a Frateris Militia force is often tied to the announcement of a War of Faith, with the faithful assembling of their own volition alongside the ranks of the Imperial Guard and Adeptus Sororitas, though they can come from any number of sources: a passionate Preacher or Confessor may rouse the local citizenry to dispose of a recently-discovered heretical cult; a Missionary may acquire a following of recent converts to protect and help them spread the good word; a temple may come under attack, requiring the opening of secret vaults to arm the local clergy and lay members in the shrine's defense.
>>47952692>Crusaders are part of their own Crusader Houses.They are part of the Ecclesiarchy. Their fluffs says "Some Inquisitors enlist Crusaders from the honour guard of the Cardinals Crimson - that most mysterious of all the Ecclesiarchy's many orders."
>>47953167Was meant for >>47952778
>>47953187But the fluff also says "The Crusaders are not officially appointed members of a branch of the Ecclesiarchy itself, rather they bypass the Decree Passive banning the use of 'men under arms' by being members of Crusader Houses, secretive organisations located close to Inquisitorial facilities."So while the Crusaders might be brought into a Cardinals Crimson honor guard, they're not actually Ecclesiarchy officals, since they're at least originally from their own organization that's not directly related to the Ecclesiarchy before they join as a bodyguard.
>>47951457this is what my heart desires
>>47948326Make them WS3 BS2 with pistol and close combat weapons and replace AoF with bonuses based on unit size and I'm on board. Also let's have a W/BS 3/3 carapace and auto guns novice troop choice so we have a cheap but not sucky unit.As I understand it (I'm a couple of editions behind) what the sisters really lack is range so we need something to full that role.Now for the spit balling of ideas.>Trinity shells, what happens when you try and make one weapon that incorporates all three of the weapons in the trinity? Probably an ordinance blast weapon but really I just like the concept.>Bolter bitch bikers, used to hunt down heretics so gets a bonus to move through difficult terrain. In my heart these are three wheeled with your choice of bolt flame or melter (maybe heavy) something to give them a nasty change (maybe fluff it as similar tech to Arco-Flagellants) and a 2+ save to show your opponents that the Emperor hates them almost as much as the sisters.>An HQ choice that is an expert in AoFs and philosophy that can make Tau doubt the greater good, cut through an Eldars arrogance or explain to an Ork that there will just never be enough dacka.>Finally some sort of psychic unit that represents the sisters looking for a way to use faith to save humanity from its coming awakening as an elite choice but I'm not sure what its rules should be.On a matter of flavour and the feel of the setting I've never been a huge fan of AoFs or DE pain points (or whatever they were called) as I feel AoFs remove an element of doubt from the setting and Pain Points leave me wondering why nobody thought to kill a minor group of slaves just before battle.
>>47953353That isn't mentioned in any codex though. Pretty sure it is from one of the old dark heresy books. They are not part of their own orgiansition in the new fluff or any fluff released by GW for that matter. You can't mix these two peices of fluff together.
>>47953451Actually, it is cited as being from Dark Heresy: Ascension. I don't think you can calll that old fluff when it's from only 2010. Considering that 5th Ed Grey Knights is older, and the GW page has only the one sentence you quoted and nothing more, which on its own makes it sound like a direct violation of the Decrees Passive...
>>47953478It is also the fluff in the inquistion codex and the sisters of battle codex. >direct violation of the Decrees Passive...See>>47952692Both the current sister codex and some rulebooks have mentioned that the Decrees Passive is not followed to the letter.Which is why we have male soldiers like the crusaders.
I'd like some vehicles for the SoBs: An artillery piece that isn't the exorcist, a mobile cathedral, some caged psykers being tortured on a rhino chassis, pulpiteks... Something.And swarms of killer cherubims.>>47948996I've never heard anyone claim that the sisters were equivalent to SMs. They're very close to stormtroopers/"scions", being trained since their early years at the Schola to be shock troops, but I don't see how you could extrapolate to "kill marines for breakfast" from there.We had one thread about the quality of their power armour, though, but it was unconclusive.>>47953478It's not really a breach of the decree, they're bodyguards in the first place.
>>47948747>Pretty sure most Chaos Cultists are improvised too and at most may have just done a little bit of training.You'd think so, yet their profile puts them on the same level as Guardsmen, who, memes aside, are proper trained soldiers. Though Cultists have worse armour - "improvised armour" in fact - they're just as skilled and disciplined as the professionals (granted, Ld at least can also represent courage, or more pertinently, fanaticism).The Chaos Cultist entry is supposed to cover heretics from both civilian and military backgrounds, but the stats seem more reflective of the latter. Then again, the old Zealots for Witch Hunter armies in Chapter Approved had WS and BS 3 as well. And the average Ork is no stronger than a human, while Craftworld Eldar Guardians are equal in skill to the hardened killers of Commorragh's Kabals.
Sisters are effective at close range firefight and melee, so IMO the best is to give them access to good tools to get there, like airdrops, teleportation or good, sturdy and fast vehicles that would double as cover.
How would you make Noviciates and Zealots coexist in the army list without overlapping?>>47946301>SoB CenturionsEww. I'd rather not follow the recent "bigger is better" GW obsession. They've already made the tau go from practical exo-armor to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann levels, negating a good chunk of their appeal. I should have seen it coming when they upgraded the XV-15 to XV-25.But you could have a super heavy flamer or melta on a two-man team, like pic related.
>>47947469>Bring some shitty tarpit unites, like pilgrims, men and women given Autoguns.So... Frateris Militia then
>>47953823If it wasn't already given to the Tau and Dark Angels, I'd have given the SOB the little trick of 'Incredibly good at overwatch'. They suck at melee so having those bolters chew through some enemies very well on overwatch would be good.Overall, I'd keep the SOB general feel of being short range (With some exceptions as no army can life and die on a single playstyle) and high mobility. Give them more tricks to make that work. Infiltrating Sisters with hand flamer + chainsword, give the Immolator fast or ignoring difficult/dangerous terraign to set it apart from the baseline space marine versions etc.That should also imo apply to any new vehicles they get. The Avenger is a nice plane but it can't do anti-air very well. I'd give them an Air Superiority Fighter as a second plane. It's not much one for strafing ground targets but it eats other fliers alive. Vector Dancer + Ignoring Jink with the downside that it's guns are Melta of some sort and thus rather short range.The justification why the Guard/Marines don't get it? It's a purely in-atmosphere fighter and Guard fliers are Imperial Navy vehicles. The Navy/Marines has no use for a purely atmospheric flier, no matter how great.
>>47953847I could see some room for a 'Bigger thing' in the realm of Penitent Engines.You've got the Penitent Engine for your run of the mill Notable Heretic and a bit bulkier, heavier one for stuff like 'Repentant Heretic Psykers'.Do a weird thing and make it a very heavy in rules...on a normal Dreadnaught base. Because it's channeling the power of a massively powerful pysker into pushing the machine beyond it's limits and deflecting shots from even anti-tank weapons.
>>47953891>Infiltrating Sisters with hand flamer + chainswordMaybe go it with a lot of synergy ? Like taking a character allows you to infiltrate another infantry unit, and then complete that with units buffing each other if they are nearby ?
>>47953945That would be fun.If so, I'd tie it to the non-combat orders.A Famulous gives you Infiltrate and Stubborn as they know all the local paths and have local informers.
>>47953423>what the sisters really lack is rangeWhat about missile launchers...> Muh trinity!... with incendiary and melta missiles?Maybe some flame weapon could set fire to the battlefield: place your template and resolve damage normally, except you leave the template there for following turns (one? several?). Basically a (preferably corrected) Soul Blaze on a area. Could be used to obstruct the battlefield or force a gunline to move a bit.A (corrected) Soul Blaze could be appropriate too.
>>47954105Soul Blaze would be a lot more worth it if it worked on Hit, not Wound. Likely also make it <Hits> rolls rather than d3. So a soul blaze flamethrower is utterly devastating to light infantry as it will burn 4 of them, then take up to another 4 at the end of turn.
>>47952984The eighties were a glorious time indeed.
>>47953847Make Zealots/Militia one big blob of cheap canon fodder. Akin to IG conscripts.Novicates would have access to special weapons in smaller squads, transports, Acts of Faith, etc.Basically cheaper Sisters.Alternately you could join them to a squad of Sisters, like how Black Templars used to function. Do they even still exist? I haven't really cared about Marines in years.
>>47946038Make it Codex EcclesiarchyLeave sisters exactly as they are.Add Frateris Militia, crusaders, arco flegelants and Redemptionists.
>>47946464>Don't you have a quest thread to make on the wrong board, or a pointless chapter creation or "how would you change GW if you were CEO" shit thread to make?Anon wants to be a mod but his mom won't let him
>>47954609>Frateris Militia>RedemptionistsWhat would make these different from each other?
>>47946038My approach would be to make new plastic versions of their current models and update their look to fit in better with the current range while I'm at it. I'd aim to complete this within the first few months of the relaunch, so people aren't put off by an inconsistent range.I'd also update their rules with a new spin, like the IG's orders system, or DEs poisoned attacks and pain points. Then I'd release them in November when my younger customer base is most likely to have the money necessary to start a new army.I don't see why anything else is required. This is something my customers are constantly asking for, so really it's just on me to deliver it properly.
>>47950700No, I mean one who's far more important in the fluff & less likely to be removed from it.
If Militia are added to the SoB codex, they need to be non-compulsory Troops. Otherwise people will just use them for the two necessary troop slots and then use a fuckton of Elites and whatnot.
>>47954609Any idea for the various priest roles?We got Drill Abbots, Preachers, Confessors, Missionaries, Deacons, Heirophants and Banishers.>>47954798One is a soldier fighting for a religious organization, the other a raving fanatic that hunts mutants on his spare time. But you could probably represent it by an upgrade.
>>47955083Yes, fluff wise Redemptionist gangs are better organised and equipped but in terms of crunch, what could they bring that would warrant including both?Militia could easily serve both, Redemptionists simply becoming an alternate name for them.At the very most it could be an upgrade, +X points to make fearless and crazy.
>>47950801>Any sister squad may join with a space marine squad, making the sisters WS4 BS4 S4 and T4 for as long as the squads are merged.
>>47956176>Every time a SOB has her period a new Blood Angel comes into being :D
>>47946038Making the upgrade from bolter to flamer cheaper or even free would be a good first step.>>47957276>:DAnd here I was, thinking I wouldn't use "kill yourself" unironically of 4chan ever again.
>>47955448They could be squads that can take all flamers or all chain weapons, give them Zealot and a better WS.GW likes dual kits. One takes all chain weapons, one of which can take an eviscerator. Some other upgrade.Other gets flame weapons, one a heavy flamer. Special rule. Upgrade.
Make generic Living Saints into LoW. Like C'tan shards, complete with a list of powers and a Super Emprah charged version.Magical girls are the answer.
Faith in the Trinity -When a SoB unit fires at least one weapon in the shooting phase that has the bolter, melta, and flamer type. They deal an additional strength 6 AP- hits equal to the lowest number of weapon types fired.EX: A Battle sister squad with a melta, a flamer, a combi-flamer, and 7 bolters, all fire at a squad of space marines. They gain 1 extra S6 AP- hit. since the lowest number of the trinity they have is the single melta.EX2: a dominion squad with 2 melta sisters, 2 flamer sisters, a bolter, and a bolt pistol firing at a armor 12 vehicle. Even if the bolters would be useless, they allow for 2 Trinity S6 AP- hits.Letting the sisters get a few extra shots for putting their faith in their limited weaponry and the determination of their fellow sisters.
>>47946149Not possible. Equipments are shared both offensively and defensively.They are basically limited spess muhreens
>>47946038I was toying with this awhile ago.Ine of the biggest problems (imo) sisters face is they use the same weapons as Marines.So without updating their entire line with new Sister-only weapons I thought about changing how Sisters use their limited weapons:>All Sisters of Battle get the Holy Trinity special rule.>Holy Trinity: a unit with this rule that shoots with a special / heavy weapon triggers this abilityBolters: the next SoB unit that fires at a unit hit by SB/HBs may reroll 1's to wound. If they could already reroll 1s they may reroll all failed wounds.Flamers: the next SoB unit that fires at a unit hit in the same shootibg phase by Flamer/Heavy Flamer/Hand Flamer may reroll 1's hit. If they could already reroll 1s they may reroll all failed hits.Melta: the next SoB unit that fires at a unit hit in the same shootibg phase by a Meltagun/ Multimelta/ Infernal Pistol gains the Rending special rule.This can act like Space Marine Doctrines, but a little more synergistic than the activate and forget.Another thing is go back to the Witchhunter style Acts of Faith where you had a list and could choose which ones your unit will use.
>>47957276>Every time a Sister saves a puppy on the battlefield, it grows into a Space Wolf>Every time a Sister drives away scavenging ravens from the dead, one turns into a Raven Guard>Every time a Sister throws out an old robe, it grows into a Dark Angel
>>47953749Some of the fluff does put Sisters as being close to Space Marine levels of discipline. That, combined with using bolters and power armor instead of lasguns and carapace, makes people think more Space Marines than Stormtrooopers.Some very old fluff with a Sister shooting a Rainbow Warrior, and I think perhaps their current relationship with the Flesh Tearers, makes some people think that they're a check on the power of Space Marines. Personally, I think they're an elite religious force, guardians of shrines and other religious places, and occasional shock troops.
>>47950215Sisters aren't a Chamber Militant anymore and them being the ones assigned to hunt rogue Space Marines is old lore. Now if the Inquisition needs help with Space Marines they request help from a Chapter.>>47951441Sisters likely don't get plasma weapons or lascannons because it takes away from them mostly using bolters, flamers, and meltas. Something akin to a plasma weapon or lascannon would have to be a melta variety. >>47953788Stats usually aren't entirely in line with the lore. For example, the only reason Cultists currently have the stats they do is probably because that is what was deemed effective for their points cost and the amount you can take in a single unit. The worse their stats, the lower their points cost has to be or the more you have to be allowed to take.
>>47946038Challenged accepted. Brainstorm incoming...>Faith OverhaulI'm not entirely opposed to the way Acts of Faith currently work, being a once-per-game thing rather than faith points, but if they're a once-per-game thing, their effects should be better than just "Gain Preferred Enemy for one turn." The only AoF I really consider to be worth it are the Repentias (3+ FNP) and the Dominions (Ignore Cover). The rest of them are pretty meh, and I commonly forget to use them as a result.>Deny the WitchSisters need to be the fucking bane of Psyker armies. Eldar and Daemons should dread running into them. As they currently stand, a standalone Sisters army only generates D6 warp charges per turn, and Deny on a 5+. They either need the ability to generate more warp charges specifically for Denying the Witch (faith charges, maybe?) or they should be able to Deny the Witch on a much lower roll. Or perhaps they keep Adamantium Will as normal, but gain one or more of the above beneifts with a formation or something. And speaking of formations...>Formations Other Than CADObviously.>More WeaponsSisters really need access to more wargear, specifically Bolters, Melta, and Flamers, and there's a lot of possibility here. Imagine a S8 AP1 melta-flamer, or a Holy Trinity gun; a combi-weapon that can fire as a Boltgun, Flamer, or Meltagun every turn. Or a gun that fires all three of those at once.>VehiclesSisters are somewhat... lacking in this area. Specifically, they could use an Assault Vehicle for Repentias (not a Land Raider, but probably something that uses the Rhino chasis), and Flyers (some kind of Angelic-themed aircraft would be cool AF).I have more ideas, but I gotta pick up people from work, so brb
>>47959770Well, Rogue Trader explicitely presented them as a "police" force for the Imperium, and even in their last codex they're still described as watching both the Ecclesiarchy and the Adeptus Terra. It doesn't mean that they are more powerful one-to-one compared to a marine, though. Otherwise inquisitorial acolytes would need to be seriously buffed.Most of the Imperium is checking each other so nobody gains too much power, anyways.On a sidenote, I wonder why GW went with catholic battle nuns (and monks, with the SM) and didn't use oriental monks at all, since those are usually more associated with combat training.
>>47959912Sisters don't need Plasma, because for 5 points more than a Plasmagun they can take two Meltaguns, which have more strength and the same number of shots from 12" or less, plus they don't kill the user.
>>47946038im not sure what you're expecting from them. every army should be able to contend on the tabletop. marines are augmented humans with 4 stats across the boards, which means anything that isnt an augmented human or a large creature shouldnt have 4 stats. sob are just elite women that were too good for the imperial guard, so they should have similar stats to the imperial guard but have better equipment and leadership, thats about it.
>>47960184>Shouldn't have 4 stats>Veteran Guardsmen and Scions have 4 in BS>Crazy Nutso Assassin (The non-augmented to hell and back ones) have 5s in stats.40k stats are pretty damn variable.
>>47959971>an Assault Vehicle for Repentias (not a Land Raider, but probably something that uses the Rhino chasis)
>>47960214i meant 4 stats in str and toughness. it makes sense that bs and ws would be higher for elite units in other armies. but if a marine is str 4 t 4, then the only thing that should also be str4 t 4 is something that is as powerful as that in lore. an ogryn for example would be str 4 t 4 in my opinion.
>>47960214All of the assassins are biologically modified and mechanically augmented. Eversors are less human than your average Iron Hands Techmarine.
>>47960281He's probably referencing Deathcult Assassins, who are WS 5.
>>47959912Just because they use mainly bolters, flamers, and meltas, doesn't mean they can't have the option for other stuff. Sort of like how the Salamanders are said to primarily use flamers, but they're free to use other stuff. I'm most concerned about this in the fact that they don't get lascannons or plasma cannons, and have to rely wholly on vehicles for long-ranged vehicle killing.>>47959971I especially agree with the Deny the Witch bit. And I liked an idea earlier for a loyalist-flavored Sonic Blaster for Sisters.
>>47960281I meant Death Cult, not Assassitorum. The guys who are 'Crazy cults the Ecclessiarchy likes to contract'
>>47960274Ogruns are massive, hulking giants. They are a damn size larger than marines. They really shouldn't be str/t 4. Not if you plan to keep them on a 50mm base.
>>47960335SoB should deny the witch on a 3/4+. I completely agree they should be the bane of psycher armies.
>>47960240Does Forgeworld even sell those anymore?Either way, I think it only carries 10 units.
>>47960184And miracles. Which could work as psychic powers, now that we have a separate psychic phase.>>47960391Marines have powered armors with servomotors, though.
>>47957875>triggered by puntuaion markseither get thicker skin or go to tumblr if you want to cry about it like a bitch
>>47946038>Stick to the holy weapon trinity.>Make Repentia standard units and dirt cheap. >Give them an open top vehicle for assault and shooting.>Use Faith in similar fashion like Psi with miracles as spells and counter prayers etc. Every non-Repentia unit could work as a Sisterhood of Faith similar to a Brotherhood of Psiker.
>>47960780Take a Gorgon Armored Assault Transport, scale it down a little?
>>47960336Aren't those supposed to be pumped full of combat drugs, akin to arco-flagellants?>>47960645>not getting the meme>using emoticons on 4chan >emoticons are a "puntuaion" mark>"back 2 tumblr" rhetoricHmm, it runs deeper than I thought.
>>47960335>Sort of like how the Salamanders are said to primarily use flamers, but they're free to use other stuff.Yeah, but with Sororitas, the Holy Trinity of Boltgun, Melta, and Flamer is really integral to their lore. And it helps keep them a close-range shooty army, which helps further distinguish them from marines.
>>47960088>On a sidenote, I wonder why GW went with catholic battle nuns (and monks, with the SM) and didn't use oriental monks at all, since those are usually more associated with combat training.Because they aren't white>>47960335Like the Anon above said, them using bolters, flamers, and melta is a big part of their lore. Salamanders using other stuff is because the Space Marine codex is used to build their army and being Marines it makes sense that they would have access to what is deemed practical for a particular situation. Even still the rules kind of reward you for playing to the lore with Salamanders and taking mostly flame or melta based weaponry. >>47960468They're supposedly coming back.
>>47960088they kind of did use oriental monks. as far as I can tell the space marines don't have a definitive race. the different styles of the chapters vary over many cultures. White scars are definitely not white people.
>>47960468GW should start selling them, with the addition of an Assault Ramp in the back for the same points cost.
>>47959971Back from picking people up.>Armor/Aesthetic UpdateI'm not saying there should be a drastic shift here, but it would be cool if Sororitas armor looked more like actual knight armor, with visible plates and such (pic related).>Standalone Death Cult AssassinsDeath Cult Assassins have a special place in the forces of the Ecclesiarchy and should be made their own unit. This would allow for things like Infiltration, meaning they could be used like AdMech Sicarians. It would also give Sisters an Infiltration unit, something they could use to keep the enemy tied up until their short-range weaponry gets in close.>More Non-militant SupportIn the lore, Dialogus and Hospitallers are not just confined to command squads. Hospitallers in general usually operate all over the place, wherever they're needed. They could be deployed as separate units or they could be taken as upgrades to squads.>Flesh Out the Lore (The Orders in particular)Sisters lore has remained pretty much untouched for the past 15-20 years. GW could flesh out the 6 main Orders more, and give some background and some of the Orders Minoris as well. (This is also where you could see more diversity added to the overwhelmingly medieval European-themed Sororitas, as you could have Oriental or Middle Eastern themed orders and such).
I picture the Sisters as some kind of UN, if the UN was part of the church.Sisters have such different roles in the Imperial sociatiy. From warrior to high grade scheming concubine, passing for compsionet medics to linguist masters.Fanatical, well trained, well equipped Symbols of faith, devotion and duty.The Marines are the Angels, the Guard is the Hammer, Sisters are pretty much everything in between.
>>47962290The SoB see themselves as humanity's spiritual guardians. In Hammer and Anvil, they describe themselves like so:"The heathen alien, the witch-psyker, the abhuman and the foulness of the mutant, even the sickening monstrosities of the Ruinous Powers - all these forces beat at the walls of humanity's salvation and tried again and again to drag it screaming into impiety and damnation.None saw this as clearly as the Sisters of Battle. Oh, it was true that they did not fight this tide of enemies alone, but one could not expect the common soldiery of the Imperial Guard to weather such threats. The Inquisition, while companionable in some forms to the work of the Sororitas, often dallied too closely to the very things they set out to expunge. And the Adeptus Astartes... they were a melange of conflicted, tribal warrior bands that embraced undependable psychics and the tenets of transhumanism. A few of their number were more tolerable than the others, and all were faithful to the Throne in their own crude conduct... But they were never to be trusted."
>>47946038>full, fun, and profitable updateBigger tits
>>47961174They should just put more benefits around them that make them good at being close-range shooty, instead of limiting their weapons options to make them only a one-trick pony.It's like how if you really want to, you could make shooty Space Wolves. I don't know why you would, but you can.
>>47946038All Sisters of Battle players playing at games of 2000 or more, with a fully painted army, will have their dick sucked for the duration of the game.
>>47960641>Marines have powered armors with servomotors, though.So are SOB and they don't get a point of strength over normal humans.
>>47960971>Aren't those supposed to be pumped full of combat drugs, akin to arco-flagellants?Not mentioned anywhere. Maybe but as far as the books mention? They are just THAT fanatical and crazy.
>>47962290I actually themed my own Sisters on grimdark Peacekeepers. They focus primarily on 'heretical' revolutions and civil wars within the Imperium, smashing down the least-loyalist side and leaving part of their strength to make sure no one was going to commit any more heresy anytime soon.On a random note, do you think Sisters get rejuvenat treatments or whatever they're called? I don't think we ever see a Sister that's not near her peak of health, and compared to Space Marines they don't live long at all, and unlike the IG they aren't meant to be eventually ground down by various campaigns.
>>47962740I'm sure that higher-ranked Sisters are powerful and valuable enough to receive rejuvenat treatments, although I can't remember ever reading anything that specifically states they do. I think the lack of older Sisters in art is because most SoB art is fanart, and fanart generally doesn't portray older women. Most Canonesses in the lore are described as being on the middle-aged to old side.
>>47962889That and most SOB art is Battle Sisters or Seraphim. Not a cannoness.Mind you, I'd say that SOB are definitely valuable enough for rejuv. The Ecclessiarchy is already just pouring stupid amounts of money into the organization.
>>47962889That makes sense. The official Canoness paintjob has a grey streak in her hair, anyway.
>>47954105>... with incendiary and melta missiles?I never said it was a good idea just that I liked it. Your idea sounds fun.>>47954609I think we're going that route Ok let's see what we've got so far.HQ is this mostly good? The Canoness may be a bit weak. Warlord traits need work.Elite only 2 to pick from and we seem to agree that Sisters Repentia are too squishy so that leaves Celestians. We need to improve this, maybe give the trinity rules that >>47959489 or >>47959679 suggested to Celestians? Any ideas on what we could add?Troops needs more options and so far we have move Repentia, have a swarm until and add novices to the list. In all honesty that should be enough here.Fast Attack seems ok on the whole for now but could use more to pick from. Maybe bikes?Heavy Support has the Exorcist, are any of the other choices worth taking?AoFs have had a poor history imo, when they first showed up they were "you get this many faith points and can have more when your units die" then we had the each unit is only allowed one act and you can try d6 per turn (so take a small number of us as allies) and then we got this once per battle thing. I think the best option is to move it to the psychic phase and have certain bits of war gear generate or be able to use psychic/faith dice like force weapons can, this will help the sisters slay those witches.Any thoughts?
>>47959971>once-per-game thing rather than faith pointsIt may sound greedy, but why not both?Have acts of faith be a resource you gain and spend each turn. You can't have all your stuff under an AoF, forcing you to make choices on where to put your efforts.Then have miracles, a once per game thing with bigger effects.AoF are the faith pushing the sisters beyond human normal limits, miracles are... well miracles.
>>47962961>Maybe bikes?You will have the "not muhrines-like" crowd coming for you! Why not cavalry?
>>47962961Add Death Cult Assassins as an Elite choice (call it a Death Cult). Assassins fielded in this way have the Infiltrate and maybe Stealth rules, so they're early-game shock troops.I wouldn't add bikes to FA, it'll just draw more comparisons to Marines (especially now that White Scars are more of a thing). You could add some Sororitas Aircraft here though.Heavy Support is yet another opportunity to add aircraft, the Avenger in particular would work here. Exorcists could also be given an upgrade allowing them to be Skyfire at will (kinda like the Tau velocity tracker).I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of moving Faith Powers to the Psychic Phase (the idea's certainly got some merit: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Psychic_Sisters), but it just feels kind of weird to me to have faith and psychic powers combined like that, especially when you consider that AoF are described as being less reliable than psychic powers in the fluff in regards to manifesting them.
>>47963021>MiraclesI like this idea. Maybe something that only named characters have access too, like Celestine and Jacobus.
>>47963083>cavalryThere's a /tg/-crated Order who ride a creature called a Kirin into battle, which can sense chaos-corruption., so that might work. It'd have to be a helluva strong creature to carry power-armored women into battle though.https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Guiding_Light
>>47963161> the Divine Light of SollexStop right there, I've found the new SoB's mount...
>>47962641>limiting their weapons optionsTheir lore specifically limits their weapons options. Their limited weapons options are an important part of their identity as an army.>shooty Space WolvesThis actually gave me an idea. What if you gave SoB something similar to helfrost weapons that use fire instead? A unit hit by such a weapon must pass an initiative test or start burning like Soulblaze, or are removed entirely as with helfrost?
>>47963083Because then that'd trample on the toes of the Rough Riders.
>>47962961Bikes would overlap with Marines a bit too much.I'd go with Cybermassiffs. These are an imperial thing in fluff that almost NEVER turns up in rules.So get some Beasts that are fast and hard hitting.Celestian Handler: WS4 BS4 S2 T3 W1 I4 A2 LD 9Massifs: WS4 BS3 S4 T3 I5 W1 A2 LD6Handler: Servo-Enhanced Power Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Cybermassif Control Implant.Massifs: Vibro-Claws, Cybernetic Plating.Servo-Enhanced Power Armour: 3+ Save, May move like a Beast.Cybernetic Plating: 4+ armour save.Vibro-Claws: S: As User AP 5, Rending.Cybermassif Control Implant: While the controller is alive the unit gains one of the following benefits, chosen at the start of the turn and lasting until changed.Hunt: Furious Charge and Move Through Cover.Track: Enemy units within 6" cannot benefit from cover saves.Evade: Shrouded.
>>47963268Rough Riders need to join the big boys club anyways.
>>47963268It's not like there are that many cavalries in the game.And it can be special mounts like >>47963161.Reminder that Rough Riders don't have miniatures anymore>>47963109Mmh, I don't know, I like the idea of random people doing miracles.The Frateris Militia can perform a miracle at the cost of their lives.
>>47963083Honey, biker nuns on bikes. This things writes it self.
>>47956176This picture is blatantly false. A space marine would never waste the emperor's Turkish sperm on a sister of battle. Space marines are programmed to accumulate as much of emp's superior Turksperm into their own body as possible.
>>47966987Space Marines are all chemically castrated. They are eunuchs. They can't.
>>47967766Look, your headcanon says they're castrated, his headcanon says they're gay, my headcanon says they have a penis but they've almost forgotten how to use it unless they're a Space Wolf or a Blood Angel with a ton of fangirls...
>>47946038Sisters should have been given centurions not marines. It would have fulfilled the terminator role while being sufficiently different. In SM they just don't serve enough of a purpose to be as good as they could have been. Change the aesthetics obviously though, they look like hammered shit.
>>47963083>>47963316How about 1-3 sisters on big fuck you cyborg cavalry with 0-10 Cybermassiffs? This allows the handles to keep up and keeps a theme of cyborg animals?>>47963085I had dismissed death cults as to like Repentia but your idea could work, it would be nice to have a non SoB choice for each section of the FOC, maybe a mass of the faithful with heavy weapons that offers a spam option with simple to learn weapons so when they lose someone one of the not holding a big gun models can pick up their weapon and keep firing. No idea on Fast Attack.On the subject of AoF vs psychic I see AoF as more subtle for the most part with only a few big wrath of Emperor things but as the Emperor is psychic I don't really have a problem with one dice pool that filthy xeno warp witches seek to disrupt.
>>47969225I could see very elite cavalry that work a bit like those Dark Eldar crazy xeno zoos.1-3 Chevalier (Multiwound Sisters on big Multiwound Mounts) with up to 2 Cyberhounds and 2 Cybereagles per Sister.
if they are squatting Slaneesh do you really think they will ever re release sisters of battle. of course not. sisters of silence will come from forgworld or even GW will veto that. the best chance you have for sisters of battle is if they add corrupted stormcast by slaneesh.
>>47969317Slaanesh was squatted in WFB, not 40k. And that was probably because GW did cold, calculating math on which factions sold the best and brought the Horned Rat up to prominence. Probably doesn't help that most people weren't enjoying the latest daemonettes.However, in 40k Slaanesh is pretty damn integral to the lore, they have no reason to shake up the setting enough to remove Slaanesh more or less completely, and they also don't have anything to replace Slaanesh with because 40k has a lot fewer rival gods.
This is tangential related to Repentia so I'll ask it here, how would everybody feel about changing power fists to "gives Smash"?
I agree with >>47963924 here. Besides, mounts were reserved to non-sisters in their first codex, while the SoB characters had access to bikes.Maybe antigrav bikes? I know they're supposed to be unused since the Horus Heresy, but even without looking at the BL books that have civilian skimmers, antigrav is pretty common in the Imperium, from servoskulls and cherubs to valkyries and land speeders.And the Ecclesiarchy has tons of money and old relics.And a skimmer unit would be really useful to move all that melta near the enemy's heavies.>>47963085>>47969225The Witch Hunter codex (3E) added them exactly like that. Pic related.
>>47969776You might be able to make an argument that Sisters are light enough to make use of cheaper anti-grav technology, compared to Space Marines which require higher-quality tech from the Dark Age of Technology to bear their weight. Still too expensive for guardsmen.And not just meltas - imagine how great a fast-moving flamer could be.
>>47956176>tfw senpai notices you
>>47969776I forgot, another reason I don't really like mounts:Sisters are the most "humans are superior" faction of the entire game. They are the only imperial faction that doesn't use animals or aliens in their heraldry (using flowers instead), names, or units.It's a nice translation of the "mankind is the only perfect lifeform, made in the Emperor's likeness" creed, and it'd be regretable to remove this aspect of them IMO.
>>47969816Either antigrav or choppers, I say.
>>47969816I agree with your point on keeping it human but we seem to be in a you can't please everybody situation. So far trikes/bikes are too close to Space Marines mounts aren't human and hover is only 5 posts old so complaints haven't had time to show up.
>>47970037Bikes, provided it's slender bikes and not fat SM-like bikes, would be good and fitting the 80s aesthetics.
If Penitent Engines had the movment rules (including the scout move which cannot be used to outflank) and the incense cloud rule the Sydonian Dragoons have I believe they would be useful.
>without changing the aestheticClose enough?For witch hunters, SoB are seriously lacking in anti-psychic stuff.>>47970969>dragoons>not dismountring to fight100% TRIGGEREDIncense clouds or grenades would be cool against shooty armies.>>47970067You know what happened to the last faction that had '80s bikes, though.
>>47971590To be fair the Squat where rather ugly even for the 80's
>>47971590Dragoons ended operating as regular cavalry
>>47952301I have a tantalusSuch a pretty modelSuch an utter bitch to balance
>>47969776>>47969791I thought Sammael had the last grav-bike in the Imperium?>>47970969>Penitent engines with incenseThat's a fucking great idea. It would help a lot with their survivability.
>>47973454Back in the very very old days, the Ravenwing was the 7th company and the whole 7th company used jetbikes. And the Imperial Guard had their own jetbikes and robots.I don't think it would be unfair to give a faction that is literally all about having the most bling jetbikes. Besides, the whole 'Space Marines need better anti-grav technology' kind of makes sense.
>>47973454I suppose astartes grav-bike and normal grav-bikes are different, like how an astartes bolter is a mastercrafted high-tech giant monstruosity compared to a regular bolter.
Go oldschool:>stripper repentias and shitty BDSM penitence engine go byebye>Basic Sisters are the backbone>theme is "elite but still human force with faith mechanic" >faith is a series of buffs cast like psychic powers, but no dispel/counter/caster>1 die per full 5 sisters in a squad, or 10 militia, or priest. +1 for sister superior, etc. >pick any number of die, compare total Vs casting number of blessing/act of faith>bonuses to total roll based on faithful acts (mainly killing) >new tanks born from agreement that the sisters get priority use of STCs found on relic worlds. Repressors & variants, Immolators, Persecutors (pred variant with ALL the Heavy Bolters, variations for the other trinity weapons)
>>47973454Sam's is the last bike in the imperiumUntil it breaksIn which the totally same bike not a different one we promise shows upDark Angels don't have secret STC's that they don't share with the rest of their brothers, that would be ridiculousMost faithful, nothing secret here
>>47976002So, take away two of the things that the Sisters have that are fairly unique, give them a Baal Predator with the flamers stripped off, and make most of what they actually have that's good be faithbuffs? I don't really like it. Oldschool isn't bad, but it's not necessarily goodschool, and I don't think it would hold up well today. Variety is always good.
>>47976002I'm not a fan of the Repentia's look, but their fluff and stats are solid, and they fill a role in the armyThta being said, having Sororitas outcasts trying to redeem themselves via good deeds instead of glorious death would make for a nice original background, for 40k.
>>47976002Better fix:>Half-naked female Repentia clothed in sacred scrolls>Half-naked male Arco-Flagellants clothed in sacred scrolls>Keep both the male and female PE models the sameOh wait, I forgot. Nudity is a male power fantasy, regardless of which gender is nude.
>>47976724Well that's actually how they are though.
>>47976044It actually repairs itself, the DAs would rather the AdMek think they can mass produce it than risk it getting stolen by someone who realises how valuable it truly is.On topic what is the consensus on Repentia? Move to Troop, leave as is or buff? Also what should be done with Heavy Support?
>>47981261Honestly, I'd leave Repentias as Elites. They're not exactly the kind of soldiers I'd want to hold objectives and such if I was a Canoness. That being said, they need FNP or an assault transport so they can actually reach their target without getting shot down on the way.No real consensus on Heavy Support, I suggested making Exorcists so they can Skyfire and adding some kind of ground-support aircraft (such as the Avenger). The idea has also been mentioned to give Penitent Engines incense emitters like Sidonian Dragoons have.
I'm compiling a general consensus of the thread ATM. I'll post that once it's done and we can take it from there.
What if, instead of Bikes or Cavalry, we gave Sisters a chariot unit or something similar. That's got some good biblical roots/aesthetic.
>>47981926Here you go. Have two variants; one Fast Attack, the other Heavy Support. (Fast Attack one pictured here). Built primarily for close-range skirmishing with heavy flamers or multi-meltas.
>>47982000Heavy Support one pictured here. Similar to the first one, but comes with three weapons instead of one. Not sure if this one should be a chariot or a Tank though.
>General Consensus>Acts of FaithAoF need to be changed. How this should be done is still up for debate, but the main ideas seem to beA. Make them similar to Psychic powersB. Keep them as is, but buff their effectsC. Return to the old-school Faith Points>Anti-PsykerSisters need to be the worst thing a Psyker enemy could ever encounter outside of a Culexus. They need to be able to Deny the Witch on a lower roll, or have more dice to Deny the Witch with. Presumably this would be tied to a formation.>FormationsLet's start putting together the SoB Decurion. We don't have all the new units in place, but we can at least start knocking out the basics.>Re-ordering the UnitsWe need to come to a concensus on what's happening with Repentias and Penitent Engines. There seems to be a concensus on making Death Cult Assassins their own unit again ala Witch Hunters codex.>More Units There's a push to make some kind of mounted Fast Attack unit, though how this is going to work is still up for debate. Other than that, Repentia's need an assault vehicle (this one is also up for debate, though I personally like the idea of making the Repressor an assault transport).
>>47981926>anti-grav skimmers towed by flocks of cherubim
>>47981261The codex itself says it mysteriously is replaced when blown to smithereens and their successors may have Sammael-like figures with their own grav-bikes.
>>47982526Some how that reminded me of the Dreadnought command chariot. Can't recall the character name or in what codex from third edition he was in.>>47982277Repentias should be outside the FOC like priest.Give them an assault transport FnP, I'm happy with a ++5 save. If no transport give them extra 3" in every movement.Berserker bondage eviceretor wielding sinful nuns. They want to die in battle. Not walking towards it, like they are right now.
>>47969317>>47969348Slaanesh is going nowhere in neither 40k or AoS. In fact it's likely him returning will be part of the story advancing in the latter. >>47969776Antigrav technology for military vehicles isn't common in the Imperium, if it was then armies outside of the Space Marines would have access to it. The aforementioned having lost their jetbikes further lends credence to it being somewhat rare. I imagine that the Mechanicus are the only others who possess such technology.
>>47946038give them detachmentsturn the psychic phase for adepta sororitas primary detachments in to acts of faith phase during that players turnmake warp charges into act of faith points and allow the use of any number of acts of faith across the board on a 4+ but without having to roll on perils and still deniable by your opponentadepta sororitas HQ, elites and other various units/models(veteran superiors, seraphim superiors) add additional faith points just like psykers would warp charge points to other armies
>>47969791>flamers on fast vehicles"Imagine how great it would be to fly through the cloud of flaming promethium you'd just spewed out in front of you!" - what autists actually think Yeah, nah. Melta, grav and plas - sure. Flamers? Not bloody likely.
Best ideas in this thread:>>47950055>Penitent Engine...moves to Fast Attack>Immolator can choose between TL Autocannon, TL Multi-Melta, Flamestorm Cannon(Except with a TL Punisher Cannon)>>47950328>A vector dancer flying immolator that keeps its transport capacity>>47959050>Make generic Living Saints into LoW.>>47959971>Sisters need to be the fucking bane of Psyker armies.>>47960240>an Assault Vehicle for Repentias (not a Land Raider, but probably something that uses the Rhino chasis)>>47961512>it would be cool if Sororitas armor looked more like actual knight armor, with visible plates and suchSomething like Grey Knights with titplate would be awesome. Dear God in heaven please no heels, though.>Hospitallers in general usually operate all over the place, wherever they're needed.>>47970969>If Penitent Engines had the movment rules (including the scout move which cannot be used to outflank) and the incense cloud>>47982526>anti-grav skimmers towed by flocks of cherubimThis would make an amazing HQ character to go in a mounted squad.Also, formations, a decurion, and an FOC based detachment.
Made an Alpha SoB Decurion. Gimme your thoughts.>SORORITAS PRECEPTORYRESTRICTIONS:This Detachment must include at least one Core choice. For each Core Choice. For each Core choice you must include between 1 and 10 Auxiliary choices, in any combination, and you may also include up to one Command choice.COMMAND BENEFITS:Ideal Mission Commander: If this Detachment is your Primary Detachment, you can choose to re-roll the result when rolling on the Warlord Traits table.Chorus of the Faithful: Whenever a unit from this Detachment would be eligible for a Deny the Witch test, do not use your Warp Charges. Instead, you may roll the same number of dice that the enemy used to manifest the power. This rule is cumulative with the Adamantium Will rule.Example: A Chaos Space Marine player uses has his Chaos Sorceror manifest the Bolt of Change power, targeting a squad of Battle Sisters from a Sororitas Preceptory Detachment. He pulls 3 Warp Charges from his Warp Charge pool and rolls to manifest the power on 3d6. After he successfully manifests the power, the Adepta Sororitas player chooses to Deny the Witch. Since the Chaos player used 3d6 to manifest the power, she rolls 3d6 to Deny the Witch. With the Adamantium Will rule, she needs one 5+ to successfully Deny.>ORDER COMMAND (Command Formation) (0-1 per Core)1 Canoness or St. Celestine0-1 Sororitas Command Squad0-3 Ministorum Priests>SORORITAS MISSION (Core) (1+)1 Canoness3-6 Battle Sister Squads1-3 Celestians, Death Cults, Ministorum Priests, or Repentias1-3 Immolators, Dominions, or Seraphim1-3 Retributors, Exorcists, or Penitent EnginesSPECIAL RULES: All models in this formation treat their Ld as +1 for the purposes of AoF. All models within 12" of the Canoness can re-roll failed Deny the Witch tests.
>>47986041I just based the rest of these formations from the apocalypse formations in the AdSor codex, but we should come up with more>AXULIARY FORMATIONS>PURGATION SQUADRON3 Immolators3 Retributor SquadsRESTRICTIONS: All Retributors must include 4 heavy weapons and include at least one HB, HF, and MMSPECIAL RULES: Relentless, Whenever one Retributor makes a successful AoF, all Retributors or Immolators firing at the same target gain Rending.>REPENTANT HOST3 Repentia Squads3 Penitent EnginesSPECIAL RULES: Rampage, It Will Not Die, All Repentias re-roll failed FNP rolls.>ANGELIC HOST2-5 Seraphim SquadsSPECIAL RULES: If this Formation is held in Strategic Reserve, you can have the whole Formation come in on one successful Reserves
>>47986066missed the last part of the Angelic Host rules.SPECIAL RULES: If this Formation is held in Strategic Reserve, you can have the whole Formation come in on one successful Reserves roll. If they Deep Strike, all weapons in this Formation gain the Shred rule on the turn they arrive.
>>47986097They also reroll failed Invulnerable saves. Rerollable 4++ on Celestine is bretty gud.
>>47986271I'm not sure if Celestine should be a requirement for that formation outside of Apocalypse, since it's an Auxiliary formation. Maybe make it 0-1 Celestine and 2-5 Seraphim?
>>47986066More ideas for auxiliary formations:>MURDER CULT3 Death Cult Assassin SquadsSPECIAL RULES: Fear, Fearless, Infiltrate>WITCH-HUNTER CONTINGENT1 Ministorum Priest2 Celestian Squads (or maybe Battle Sisters/Dominions)SPECIAL RULES: Preferred Enemy (Psykers), as long as the Priest is alive, this Formation Denies the Witch on a 2+.
>>47984995Yes, let's just put the flamer right in front of us. Surely there's nowhere else we could stick it.
>>47987093Posted this in /40kg/ but didn't get much interest. Anyone lurking here have feedback to give?
>>47982277>Acts of FaithD/amendment to A. Relics that generate faith dice and/or have AoF powers.This should help with making the sisters a nightmare for psychics as a relic that improves their deny the witch is very in theme and lots of faith dice in the opponents psychic phase does the rest.>More UnitsOther than the not human argument (a valid one I concede) are there any objections to cyborg mounts or biker sisters with a pack of Cybermassiffs hunting down heretics?
>>47987248I'm not a fan of AoF being guaranteed success from a theme standpoint as it removes an element of trust (in the dice Emperor) to have them on recharge. Unless you meant after you use your free use it's a 6+ roll every turn in which case my concern would be that the rule seems designed to discourage you from your first use of AoF (something that is fun, rules that discourage fun are bad and get replaced next codex so GW can't learn from and improve upon them holding your army back) but I don't play much anymore so feel free to disregard my views.
>>47987267The main objection I have to biker sisters is that everyone will compare them to space marines, especially with White Scars being a thing these days. Cyber-mastiff sisters would be interesting, but they seem a little out-of-theme to me. I'm down with the Chariot idea though.>>47987467>AoF being guaranteed success removes an element of trust in the dice EmperorAgreed. I like the way AoF are handled better in the current codex.>>47987248I'm actually building a PDF that's similar to this right now. I should be able to post it soon, and we can start to dilute everyone's ideas into something more concrete.
>>47987502Of course, finding models for Sisters chariots would probably be a pain.
>>47987467The idea is that the more faith you have in the dice (read: Emperor), the more you can use your Acts of Faith. Presumably, even the least devout of the Sisters allowed onto the battlefield will have enough faith to make a single minor miracle happen. If they're not faithful enough for that, they should be scrubbing floors or something.Maybe 6+ (rerollable 5+ with the right gear) to restore isn't high enough? Maybe a base 4+ would be better?I'm not really tied to this, but personally I find the game much more enjoyable when I'm able to account for randomness beforehand (this way you know at the end of the turn before whether or not you'll have a guaranteed AoF for the coming turn), instead of getting stuck in a situation where I'm relying on a certain dice roll at a critical moment.
>>47987502>I'm actually building a PDF that's similar to this right now. I should be able to post it soon,Should I stay up?
>>47987248Instead of Dominator, how about Virtue or Authority Strike Fighter (in keeping with the SoB holier-than-thou theme)? I got the idea from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelic_hierarchy#Second_Sphere>>47987534Yeah, if you can. I think I'll be able to have a rough draft up within a half hour or so.
Where does everyone stand on HS and FA? As I see it FA is quite good but we want one more option and HS has one good unit (could anyone put together a mid tier list without allies or an Exorcist? If not I think the army's to dependent on the Exorcist) and a forge world choice.
>>47987560>the SoB holier-than-thou themeDunno, I always got a more psycho religious authoritarian vibe from their naming convention:>Repressor>Immolator>ExorcistJust hearing the name lets you know you don't want to be on the wrong side of it.Keep in mind that the Avenger isn't actually a Sororitas asset, it's Imperial Navy close air support.
>>47987596Penitent Engine is a great model, it just can't compete with the Exorcist. It really needs to move to Fast Attack so it doesn't have to compete. Also, Retributors are kind of shit. Heavy Bolter is worthless and Heavy Flamer is mediocre (I guess firing 5 S5 templates out of a Repressor is pretty cool if you're fighting someone that didn't get the Shooting Edition memo). Multi-Melta would be amazing if it weren't for the movement restriction, but as a Heavy weapon on an infantry squad without Relentless, it's just not worth it.
>>47987248On the Dominator, were you thinking of making it a hover flyer, or do its occupants have to grav-chute to get out?
>>47987502I hate to say this but we're probably going to need to bite the boltshell here and accept that with the way things are going even the sisters can't hope to remain pure forever.>>47987523I still think dropping the current system and moving it to the psychic phase is better, atm we're trying to balance a system that everyone else balances by having one of the games phases dedicated to sorting it out, imagine an army that doesn't make use of the movement phase and instead makes short range teleports in the psychic phase, everyone would say to just give them some special rules and have them move like everyone else does.
>>47987534PDF draft is nearly finished. Just putting in some formations and then I'll put it up for critique.
>>47987641It's more of a brainstorming session than a first draft; I haven't listed special rules for pretty much anything. But yes, having it hover is the intention.>>47987713Yeah, that makes sense.
Here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=SoB.pdf
>>47987979Just post it here?
>>47988010It's too big for 4chan. Is the link working? I haven't used Dropbox before :p
>>47988010I put it on Google Drive as well in case the Dropbox link isn't working: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9ooji9TfLqMS2ZOeTlReXgwbnM
>>47988054I just don't feel like making an account. How many pages is it?
>>47988073The Google Drive link doesn't require an account to use, I just checked.
Give their flame weapons the ability to place flame terrain that causes damage. If you can't win, you can at least cover the battlefield in little plastic fires.
Overall, I made everything have a Force Org slot, since that's kinda been a trend in 7th ed with Command Squads being Elites and such, and I made Exorcists able to be fielded in squads. I forgot to give Penitent Engines their upgrades, and I have to put in an Appendix, so I'll get to that soon. If you guys spot any other initial errors, let me know. I didn't have time to put Force Org icons on everything, so here's where everything falls:>HQCanoness, Priests, Jacobus, Celestine>TroopsBattle Sister Squad>ElitesCelestians, Death Cults, Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves, Hospitallers, Repentias, Command Squads>Fast AttackSeraphim, Dominions, Rhinos, Immolators, Repressors, Dominators>Heavy SupportExorcists, Penitent Engines, RetributorsEverything else is a Formation
>>47988116Oh, and I forgot to mention that the Hospitaller picture is a mistake, and that I added Militia to the Battle Conclaves to replace the DCA. Militia are basically just Guardsmen who cost 5 pts/model and can exchange their gun for a close combat weapon/pistol for free. They can be upgraded to Aco-flagelents for 5 pts or Crusaders for 10 pts. They can also be taken in units of 20 instead of 10.
>>47988084I'm not trying to shit on your codex, just pointing out stuff that comes to mind. If I come across as a dick, I'm sorry; it's coming on 5 AM here.I'm not really a fan of the way you're handling Hospitallers. Instead of taking them as a unit with a special rule to split them into independent characters, just make them independent characters from the start.Splitting DCAs off from the battle conclave means they can't take Crusaders as meat shields. They don't really gain anything except the ability to start the game in rapid fire range of the enemy so they can die even faster.Make Militia the same as Inquisitorial Acolytes. Cheap boltguns are nice sometimes and fit with the Sisters' theme.Giving the Repressor the same weapon options as the Immolator reduces the distinction between the two. The extra front armor and fire points make the Repressor significantly better, even for the increased price. Also, you've forgotten to add it as a dedicated transport option, and it can't hold a full Repentia Squad with a support character.3 Seraphim squads is a bit much, considering the existing Apocalypse formation only requires 2. Granted, it requires two full squads, but they pretty much have to be full to be useful anyway.You've still got the problem with the angelic host in the vanilla codex, where it gives a save reroll to seraphim, who already have a special rule that gives them a save reroll. Either make the formation bonus reroll to all failed saves, or make the squad special rule a 5++.Retributors are still trash.It looks like you haven't listed the Acts of Faith anywhere. Are they all the same as from the Codex? I admit I've never paid attention to the names.
>>47988247Also, the Frateris Militia formation gives Zealot, which the Priests already confer to their units.
>>47988247And on the subject of Immolator vs Repressor, the Repressor comes with a Dozer Blade (5 pts) and Storm Bolter (5 pts), which means it gives an Assault Ramp, 7 fire ports, +2 front AV, and +6 capacity for a total of 5 points.
>>47988247No worries, I'm tired as hell too. I'm probably going to sleep before implementing any suggestions so I don't fuck anything up (the formatting on this thing is really finicky). At the end of the day, this thing is very Alpha, and needs a lot of work before it really sees the light of day.>HospitallersIt is wonky as hell, I gotta find a better way to implement that.>DCANot sure I agree with keeping them in the conclave, but I'll look at them again when I'm awake and cognisent.>Repressor and Militia100% agreed. Will implement after sleep.>Seraphim FormationMaybe make it 2-3 Serpahim then? I'm trying to make it so that you don't have to bring Celestine with it and still have it be decent (or to compensate for if you bring multiples of it). Also, Celestine is the reason for the re-rollable invuln saves, I should re-word that to make it more clear.>RetributorsAlso agreed. Not quite sure how to fix them, but I plan on addressing that at some point.>Acts of FaithThey'll be in the Appendix when I finish it tomorrow.>>47988288The idea with Zealot was so that if you only bring 1 priest and 3 conclaves, the conclaves all get Zealot anyway. That being said, All of the formations are very alpha and subject to change, so I'm open to suggestions on them.>>47988315I copied the Repressor straight from the Forge World rules, adding only the Assault Vehicle rule. I agree that it could use rebalancing however.
I uploaded a slightly revised version: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9ooji9TfLqMNkFiVWJOTldMY1kI'm off to bed now, be back later with more revisions.
>>47988342>It is wonky as hell, I gotta find a better way to implement that.I'd just do it like the Iron Hands Techmarine thing. For each HQ, you can take 2 or 3 or 4 or whatever with no FOC slot>Maybe make it 2-3 Serpahim then? I'm trying to make it so that you don't have to bring Celestine with it and still have it be decent I think 2-5 gives plenty of room for choice, if you want to use small units for deep striking objective coverage, or large units for assault troops.>Also, Celestine is the reason for the re-rollable invuln saves, I should re-word that to make it more clear.Then half the benefit of the formation only benefits 1 model that isn't even mandatory. Plus, Seraphim really could use a survivability boost, especially the turn where they're sitting ducks. Giving them a 5+ with a reroll from the formation is still just a consolation prize for not being able to take a jumppack priest.>The idea with Zealot was so that if you only bring 1 priest and 3 conclaves, the conclaves all get Zealot anywayFor 25 points per unit to reroll either all attacks or all saves for the unit in close combat, I'd taking the priests anyway.>I copied the Repressor straight from the Forge World rules, adding only the Assault Vehicle rule.FW rules just give them a single Heavy Flamer (not TL) with no option for other weapons.
>>47988421Cool, mind sharing the format? I'd like for making fancy army list.
Should Retributor be up to 20 women and everyone can have a heavy weapon? I'm sure I've over done it with this idea but we can scale it back.
Someone in 40kg suggested differentiating the weapon options of the Immolator and the Dominator, and got me thinking about weapon loadouts again. I'd like the Dominator to be something that flies in, drops a squad on top of an objective, and then sticks around to provide close air support for it. So ideally it would be something that has relatively short range and makes use of vector dancer and break turns to stay on target. Both vehicles should obviously have the Trinity of weapons available.>Bolt weapons2x Heavy Bolter2x Hurricane BolterAvenger Bolt Cannon (not Gatling Cannon)PunisherTaurox cannon Assault cannon>Melta weaponsTL Multi-Melta 2x Melta or TL Melta>Flame weaponsTL Heavy Flamer (I just don't think this one has a role except against tier 4 armies, who really don't need a weapon specialized against them)Inferno Cannon (same problem as HF, although torrent makes it considerably more versatile)Flamestorm Cannon (maybe 6" torrent on the flyer)Maybe a flamer version of SM Hellfire rounds? I can see plenty of uses for a Poisoned 2+ Template.So, which goes where? I can see reasons for putting lighter weapons on the flyer, and just as many for giving it heavier weapons.
>>47992264They'd still be useless. The problem is the combination of Heavy weapons, shortish range, and a lack of Relentless. Maybe make Relentless their AoF?
>>47992525Maybe new weapons can be made, like in >>47954105 ?Walls of flame sounds fun.
>>47946038>full>fun>profitable>without making them worse than space marines or changing aestheticMake they aryan qts
>>47956176>tfw no ShindoL doujin about a Sororitas getting impregnated by a space marine bull
>>47957875The only time I ever accept the use of ":D" is when it's used appropriately when Spurdoposting.
>>47992558Ok so if they can get Relentless is that them fixed?
>>47961512>actual knight armorI only demand one thing of this, that the boots be high heeled. I'm not asking for stiletto heels, but heels like this combined with armor make my fashion boner harder than steel.
1) Firepower in armor a bit worse than spacemarines'2) Neat nagic powers coming FROM DA EMPEROR a bit worse than chaos's.
>>47952941>give celestine eternal warrior God yes please
>>47993503Probably. 4 Multi-Meltas in a Repressor would be a fucking monster if they weren't stuck as a turret. >>47993546NOPENOPENOPENOPE You've got Raging Heroes for that. Heels look like ass even on women in dresses, it's the stupidest fucking bullshit on space nun soldiers and not at all thematically consistent.>>47952941>Let all of their AOF using once a turn each squad not one a game but still if they whiff on their leadership they can't use it and blew it.Wait, isn't that the way it already is? You don't lose it until you fail the Ld test.
>>47994424>trying to equate tasteful high fashion with plebeian cheesecakeI'll fight ya. Heels are a piece of fashion that emanate feminine dignity and grace.
>>47994424Is that also true for heavy flamers/bolters? I'd rather we not fall in to the trap of thinking only one load out needs to work for them to be fixed.Assuming that's done how does everyone see AoF working? I liked the Witchhunters here's a list of things you can do but letting anyone do anything might be op.
>>47994524Does anyone know what that codex was like? Any ideas we can steal?
>>47994524>Femininity>Dignity>Grace>That thingDo you have some sort of elephant seal fetish?
>>47994686Only when the elephant seals aren't drawn by Blanche.
>>47994648Heavy Bolters have the same issue. Heavy Flamers are actually okay as they are because they're Assault rather than Heavy and Rending templates are pretty awesome. But as it is, it's an incredibly niche unit that's relatively expensive to out and shares an FOC slot with the strongest general-purpose anti-everything unit in the codex.
>>47994685It's pretty much identical. SoB haven't had a full model line revamp in their 20 year history. Apart from AoFs and Exorcists, the 7E dex is the same all of the ones before.
>>47994753Thanks, I'm one of those annoying fluff nuts with opinions despite the most up to date rule book I own being the edition that introduced SMASH and I believe my last codex was the Ward Gray Knights. I want to contribute but don't know anything about the current meta (or that heavy flamers are now assault).
>>47994753>>47994424I wonder if rending+relentless as the AoF would balance them out. 4 relentless melta shots with 24" range is great, 12 relentless rending S5 bolter shots is great, 4 rending templates is great.Or would it not be appropriate for the AoF to grant two separate rules?
>>47995194Nothing wrong with an AoF granting any number of rules but until we know how AoF will be implemented we can't discuss balance.
>>47946038They don't need a fucking update, they just need some plastics, ever. People aren't avoiding them because they're not cool enough for 40k, they avoid them because they've always had a limited mini range and been expensive as fuck.
>>47995740True to an extent but if a new range of models came out tomorrow they don't have a codex that would excite people.
>>47996562How well did the Dark Eldar go over? I feel it's the range that people always compare to the Sisters situation, since anything else GW has brought out of the mothballs recently is as old as Rogue Trader.
>>47954609>Frateris MilitiaDidn't Sebastian Thor forbid the Ecclesiarchy to have men to be under arms?>>47966987>Turkish spermEmps is fucking proto-Sumerian you retarded heretic!
>>47997381>Frateris MilitaYeah, but they still do it, just on a much smaller scale. The Inquisition keeps a close eye on them to make sure the Ecclesiarchy's following the spirit of the law if no the letter.
>>47997381>Didn't Sebastian Thor forbid the Ecclesiarchy to have men to be under arms?>>47952847>Frateris Militia isn't a standing army. It's just a bunch of dudes that train to fight in their free time and volunteer when the Ecclesiarchy asks who wants to go lynch some heretics.>>47953047>The raising of a Frateris Militia force is often tied to the announcement of a War of Faith, with the faithful assembling of their own volition
>>47984995Pretty sure the Baal Predator is a fast vehicle and one of its loadouts is primarily flamer based. In the case of it and I'd imagine a theoretical Sister vehicle, the speed would be less about zooming around and more just the ability to get to places quickly. Also like the Baal Predator you could have the main weapon be a turret or have side sponsons, keeping the flames either to your sides or rear. >>47997224The Dark Eldar codex and the thought that was seemingly put in their lore was good, but I think equally or even more appealing were their models which people still say are one of GW's best ranges. Likely the result of Jes Goodwin being heavily involved. If Sisters got a new range and it was good, that could possibly make them a bit more popular. Honestly while them having old models currently may not make them attractive, I don't think that has always been the thing dragging them down. Every single army had mostly metal models that in hindsight look ugly and people still played them because they found the overall army theme appealing. The majority of the current Aspect Warrior models are all old, but their concept is sound and so people buy them.
>>47987248That DtW thing is absolutely absurd. I like reducing the base cost of sisters, an already pretty fairly costed unit given their AoF and Invuln, increasing the cost of their guns to compensate, and then making the weapons free anyways. Well done. Would not play against/10.>>47988421Chorus of the Faithful is fucking absurd. All it will do is force people to exclusively run Blessings and Conjurations against your Sisters, and those were already generally the better option.Why on Earth did you keep that retarded "every squad has to have each heavy weapon" restriction on the Retributor formation?
Updated the PDF, the latest version can be found here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4BtLTIkWwtAcGJmdTZxTGRocU0As always, critique is welcomed.Patch Notes:- Added an Appendix, which explains all rules and wargear. Still have to add Relics though.- Canoness may now take jump pack for 15 pts- Moved Hospitallers to HQ, and made them non-Force Org. An AdSor army can include up to 3 of them in each detachment.- Added an image for the Dominator Gunship. Yes, I know it's actually a Dark Talon, but I figure it would be approximately the same shape/size/aesthetic.- Increased Unit Composition on Battle Conclaves to 5 Militia.- Added a Vengeance-pattern Exorcist, which is an Exorcist designed for anti-air.- Gave Retributors the Wall of Fire rule, which allows squads that have all equipped the same weapon to combine their fire to greater effect.- Moved the Repressor to Heavy Support and added more weapons options to it- The Angelic Host is now 0-1 Celestine and 2-5 Seraphim. Serpahim in the formation now have 5++.- Several new weapons added. - Added profiles for the Flamestorm Cannon, Inferno Cannon, Melta Cannon, and Punisher Gatling Cannon. Some of these do not have any units to use them, but I figured we might want to give them to something at some point. - Added Trinity weaponry, which simultaneously fires a blast of bolts, melta blasts, and flame at the target. Trinity Guns have been added to Ranged and Special Weapons lists and Heavy Trinity Guns to the Heavy Weapons list. Not sure how many points they should cost, however. - AdSor vehicles can now take Fire Pipes, which are like Fire Barrels, but with Blind. - AdSor vehicles can equip Flamers and Meltaguns in addition to storm bolters.(Patch notes continued below):
>>47999938(continued patch notes):- AoF rules haven't been changed (yet), but I changed what some of the effects are: - Celestians AoF now gives them Twin-linked instead of Furious Charge. - Spirit of the Martyr now gives Repentias Eternal Warrior. - New Hospitaller AoF, Divine Ministration, which makes all FNP saves re-rollable. (I'm kicking around the idea of switching the Hospitaller's and Repentia's AoF effects, what do you guys think?)- The Inspiring Orator Warlord Trait now gives Fearless instead of Stubborn
>>47999690>Chorus of the Faithful is fucking absurdIt's supposed to be. Sisters should be one of the worst things psykers could run up against. The whole thing's still very alpha though, so I'm open to changing things if you have a different idea. As for the weapon restrictions, that was a typo, I took it out in the latest update.>>47999938I just noticed that I didn't actually add the Divine Ministration faith power to the PDF, so I'll fix that in the next update.>>47992248For the unit datasheets and such, or are you talking about the cathedral fleur-de-lis thing on the top of each page?
>>47999969>Spirit of the Martyr now gives Repentias Eternal Warrior.This doesn't let them take FnP against ID.
>>48000079>my army should just get to turbo-fuck psykers because it's fluffyThat's cool. When will be daemons get to turbo-fuck reality just by showing up like the fluff says they do?
>>48000087Thanks for pointing that out. I'll switch it back to the 3+ FNP.>>48000104>When will daemons get to turbo-fuck realityYou mean like this?
>>48000462It was suggested in 40k general to give them a base 3+ FNP and have the AoF turn it into a 3++ invulnerable save.>>47999690>increasing the cost of their guns to compensate, and then making the weapons free anyways.Compare that to the 600+ points of free value that the equivalent formation gives Space Marines.
>>47946301>buildasaint like DPsFuck yes, this would be fucking rad.
>>47946038Some normie/casual-tier ideas from some guy who doesn't play WH40 (the game and lore itself is whatevs, but the fanbase is defo not my cup of tea)>Focus more on the "Sisterhood" aspect of their culture>Their stories should be much more "human" in nature>For example, space marines are practically living gods, and imperial guard are pretty much human shields>Logically, Sisters of War should be a sort of inbetween of the two>Which isn't to say Space Marines are not sympathetic or Imperial Guards are not human, because honestly, I think the Space Marines and the Imperial Guard are THE most sympathetic and human parts of the Empire, it's just that we never really get to see it>So have the Sisterhood of Battle (or whatever the fuck they're called) fill that literary niche and give them a purpose that's MORE than just "weaker Marines with larger [smaller] boobs">Have them be more telepathically empathetic>And by that, I mean make ALL of them more or less psychic>If you've ever seen Starcraft: Ghosts, think of it like that>They all have SOME degree of psychic ability, whether that be the ability to read body language or the ability to read the future>So pretty much, just make them a hybrid of a bunch of different stuff to make up for their certain short comings>Literally just "Moderate Marines">What they lack in raw, physical power, they make up for in extreme sororic-terror and limited psychic ability
>>48004392>And by that, I mean make ALL of them more or less psychicYeah, the fanbase certainly doesn't need more morons like you.
>>48004474Why? I don't get it? How did I have fun wrong this time?
>>48004522You very, very clearly know absolutely nothing about what you're commenting on, and your ideas are absolutely worthless.
>>48004208I could throw that into the PDF. I was planning on adding more relics anyways (seems like one of the things that SoB would have to make them stand out as an army). I'll take a look at the DP rules and start from there.
>>48004643Your reaction seemed kind of uncalled for, but I guess your constructive feedback is more or less...constructive. I mean, it's not exactly false that I know very little about the Warhammer 40K universe.BUT, I know enough to say that I think I've got something going on in my original pitch to make the sisters much more "sisterly". Like, I like to think the Space Marines are more "my brothers are dead, but they died for the emperor, and thus their deaths were not in vain", whereas my vision of a Sister would be "My sister is way over there in that field, and my objective is way over there in that building, and though I'm conflicted with my duty towards the emperor and my dying sister, ultimately, I will go to my sister in a bid to save her".Also, what were your ideas then, hotshot? Let's see you put something on the table.
>>48004690>I mean, it's not exactly false that I know very little about the Warhammer 40K universe.Not the guy that you're responding to but as someone who's gotten no books from the last 2 editions but has been trying to contribute anyway I highly recommend you at least get up to speed on the sisters lore.
>>48004690>"My sister is way over there in that field, and my objective is way over there in that building, and though I'm conflicted with my duty towards the emperor and my dying sister, ultimately, I will go to my sister in a bid to save her".Please, continue. I don't know if you could get further away from the actual themes of the Sisters of Battle if you tried.
>>48004800Is change bad, anon? Is different "wrong"? We already know the Sisters are fucked, as is. No one gives a shit about them, so why not just revamp their image? Focus more on their human side rather than just make them Space Marines v2? I'm trying to base their shit off the legend of the Amazons, with a kind of no-homo bond between all of them. As far as lore goes, it's actually not a bad idea. I'm sick of hearing the same old shit everyday. After a while it just gets tedious and boring. Also, I'm still waiting on your fresh, new idea so we can shit all over that as well.
>>48004983Because the idea is to keep them the SOB, not change them dramatically in basic ideas.They are a group that is defined by duty to emperor above absolutely everything else.
>>48004983>No one gives a shit about them, so why not just revamp their image? Focus more on their human side rather than just make them Space Marines v2? See >>47995740 it's not that the sisters are unpopular it's just that GW isn't making them available at a reasonable price.
>>48005059Yeah, but that's the point. They love each other as much as they love the emperor. So when they have to choose between each other, that's where the conflict comes from. Maybe I was wrong in saying that "ultimately", the Sisterhood would always choose each other over the emperor, but I want there to be kind of a reoccuring image of this internal conflict surrounding the sisters and their supposed "heresy", as well as the various other faction's ways of responding to this serious infraction. Maybe have stories where the sisters that get "saved" actually try to kill their savior for heresy, or maybe have stories where actual yes-homo love forms between two sisters, but since they actually have no idea of what love actually is, they get all fucked up and psychotic and start confusing their love of the emperor with romance, and romance with prayer, and prayer with chaos, and etc. etc.Look, all I'm saying is that, like the Space Marines and the Imperial Guard, there's a lot of potential for top-tier story telling here, but it always gets bogged down with LE SPESS MUHREENS. LE BLOOD FOR LE BLOOD GOD. And literally NOTHING ever changes. You guys yourselves make a billion threads a day, and you guys always talk about how stagnant and dry GW has become, so why is their such little drive for something new and refreshing?I mean, I'm not saying make the sisters a bunch of commie-liberal, no-guns sluts. I'm just saying, you know, make them a little more fleshed out and human. That's all.
>>48005193>the Sisterhood would always choose each other over the emperor...that really seems counter to the entire point of the Sisters.They can be fleshed out and human without completely warping what they are.
>>48005193Other anon may have been a dick, but he's right. SoB's whole thing is that they're a bunch of religious fanatics. If a Sister had to choose between one of her sisters and the Emperor, she'd go Emperor every single time, and that's what her Sisters would want her to do. I agree that Sisters lore could use some fleshing out, but that's just not the way to do it. As far as personal conflicts go, the best SoB stories involve Sisters being forced to confront things that contradict their beliefs, or force them to make difficult moral decisions where there are no right or wrong answers.
>>48005193Honestly that would work a lot better as an Eldar faction than an imperial one. Everything about the IoM is geared towards putting the Whole above the individual and when someone isn't doing that they have a better than 50% chance of adding Chaos in some way with their actions.
>>48005246The entire point of that post was to deconstruct my previous "sisters would save each other 10/10 times" statement...Hell, there could be stories where a sister joins chaos BECAUSE she was left on the battlefield.At this point, they really are just "Space Marines v2". There's practically almost nothing that makes them different from the Space Marines of today, other than a few cosmetic changes. I don't really see what the appeal of that is. >>48005285>the best SoB stories involve Sisters being forced to confront things that contradict their beliefs, or force them to make difficult moral decisions where there are no right or wrong answersThat's pretty identical to what a Space Marine deals with anyhow. My logic is "Space Marine stories are about gods doing the work of man. Sisterhood of Battle stories are about women doing the work of gods."Maybe work that into the lore about how the Sisterhood of Battle has a high chaos ratio or something. Write about how they're always under the watch of the inquisition because of it, and that's why they're so torn apart. Make it so that maybe they USED to be pure daughters of the emperor, but now the problem is much more complicated and dangerous due to the inevitability of human error. >Why don't the Space Marines have the same problems as the Sisterhood of Battle?Because they're male. No, but in all seriousness, it's because Space Marines aren't technically "men". Lore wise, it could be explained that the same procedures underwent by the Space Marines are not always so perfectly compatible with the bodies of most women.
>>48005401>Maybe work that into the lore about how the Sisterhood of Battle has a high chaos ratio or something. Write about how they're always under the watch of the inquisition because of it, and that's why they're so torn apart.So you want to completely invert their situation? As they've always been the MORE holy/blessed/pure of them and marines.This is really completely ruining the existing themes of them. At this point you might as well invent an entirely new faction.>>48005285Oddly enough, that's more or less the basis of the 2 SOB Black Library novels out. Both are pretty decent.In the first, it's the SOB vs The Ecclessiarchy. Their faith vs the words of the leaders of that faith.In the second it's the SOB vs the Mechanicus. A conflict between two imperial faiths (Though they never truely end up at war with each other)There is also some battles but they are not the main focus.
>>48005439Yeah, that's exactly what I said. They used to be super pious and untouchable, but now they're kind of degrading due to muh human kundishion. Lots of shit gets thrown their way because of it (ie. attracts a lot of chaos, internal struggle, inquisition fucks with them all day, yadda yadda yadda), and thus, this character flaw makes them interesting. It's the same reason why people like the Space Marine stories where they're not just Mary Sue power gamers.
>>48005487Except now you've taken away the entire character of the faction. It's like having grey knights getting possessed all over the place. It's defeating the point.You can tell interesting stories about a group without twisting them so far they are barely recognizable.
>>48005512But they'd still be recognizable, anon. They'd be recognizable in the same way Rocky Balboa was still Rocky Balboa even after retirement.
>>48005531Not really, you've taken away all the good qualities they had before in your attempt to 'Humanize' them. Rather than draw on what they already had.This is the story of a non-SOB faction.
>>48005487Why do the SOB need to tell the story of the 'Poor frail woman falling apart under stress'. They are a much more disciplined and organized group than any other human organization. They should be the least likely to fall into that.
>>48005487>>48005554That's actually a big part of what sets them apart from Space Marines. Even with all their superhuman prowess, Marines are still very susceptible to the touch of Chaos, whereas Sisters are not. They see themselves as humanity's spiritual protectors, and rightly so. To quote one of the Black Library books that was mentioned earlier in the thread:"The heathen alien, the witch-psyker, the abhuman and the foulness of the mutant, even the sickening monstrosities of the Ruinous Powers - all these forces beat at the walls of humanity's salvation and tried again and again to drag it screaming into impiety and damnation.None saw this as clearly as the Sisters of Battle. Oh, it was true that they did not fight this tide of enemies alone, but one could not expect the common soldiery of the Imperial Guard to weather such threats. The Inquisition, while companionable in some forms to the work of the Sororitas, often dallied too closely to the very things they set out to expunge. And the Adeptus Astartes... they were a melange of conflicted, tribal warrior bands that embraced undependable psychics and the tenets of transhumanism. A few of their number were more tolerable than the others, and all were faithful to the Throne in their own crude conduct... But they were never to be trusted."Taking away Sisters spiritual aspect is like taking away Space Marine's superhumanity; it's simply too integral to their identity as a faction.
>>48005539Well then fuck it. Make it a subfaction within the SoB and see which one becomes more popular I guess. After that, wrap up sales and enjoy a nice glass of punch. I still like my original idea better though...>>48005554It's less "poor frail woman" and more "I'm fighting a power greater than me, and I'm clawing at the throat of a losing battle".
>>48005593Now, that being said, you could make a story about an Order living out beyond the borders of the Imperium slowly losing their faith over the course of generations, and that could be interesting. I'm just saying that the SoB wouldn't do that as a whole.
>>48005539>>48005554Also, I gotta go to sleep, but I gotta admit, this 40k talk has been exceptionally interesting. You know how I said I didn't really care much for 40k? You can at least take solace in the fact that this thread is kinda slowly turning me towards it.
>>48005593Yeah. The SOB are really the Paladin of the various imperial factions. A marine is a superhuman machine of warfare and the guard have endless numbers but the SOB have pure faith and iron will.
>>48005401>At this point, they really are just "Space Marines v2". There's practically almost nothing that makes them different from the Space Marines of today, other than a few cosmetic changes.AoF, a narrower weapon type focus, units with a 5+ or worse armour save, the whole theme thing? You don't need every army to be unique or we would have dropped some of those Space Marine Chapters by now instead of adding more.>Hell, there could be stories where a sister joins chaos BECAUSE she was left on the battlefield.There could be but I cling on to hope that GW isn't that disconnected from its audience to think that would go down well.>I don't really see what the appeal of that is. That shows and I really don't think you're going to get anyone here to see things your way until you can understand why people like them.
>>4800562540k is great if you can get past the stuff GW wants to push for a sales boost and get to the human trying to do their best in the worst conditions. The reason the sisters would let their best friend die isn't because they don't care for her but because they do care for the planets that will suffer if they don't.That lady with the two wips leading the naked chainsaw brigade? She knows every single one of them feels they failed and feels the needs to make up for it and so help her but that is what she will give them.That woman burning people who have mutations or say that Chaos is the answer? The soul of humanity is sick and she must quarantine the infectious.Your fathers adviser who wants you to marry a woman you've never seen? That marriage will feed a word.
>>48005807>That lady with the two wips leading the naked chainsaw brigade?>woman in a power corset using whips to herd a pack of naked bondage nuns around the battlefield>people claim the SoB aren't sexualized
>>48005822The repentia aesthetic can be kept, just have models look more like >>47959971 instead of some raging heroes cast off.Not sure what to do about the whip mistress.
>>48005822>people claim the SoB aren't sexualizedI think everyone accepts that Repentia have some unintentional minor sexual undertones.
Alright well, I'm off to bed, but I tweaked the PDF some more, and made a link that goes to a folder instead of directly to the PDF so I don't have to post a new link every time I change anything. The link is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4BtLTIkWwtAUnAtNlBQb3llU0kIn the same folder I put a reformatted version of the current 6th edition SoB codex for comparison and quick rules look-up, and an Army List Template with the SoB codex background since someone was asking for that. It's an ODT file, so Google Drive can't display it properly, you have to download and edit it with OpenOffice (which you can get for free here: http://www.openoffice.org/download/)Tomorrow, I'll try to add rules for Biker Sisters and Build-Your-Own-Living-Saint, assuming people are on board with those ideas.