>>44529738
Republic Information

>Capital is Naboo; Coruscant is still in Imperial hands
>Jedi Academy established by Luke Skywalker with the assistance of Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin- Yoda passes on his philosophical knowledge, Obi-Wan passes on his combat knowledge, Anakin passes on knowledge of dark side and means of combating it.
>Have recently taken on several refugees from Imperial-controlled planets, especially those with high Force-sensitive populations
>Purges in the Empire have also resulted in multiple defectors; among these people are former Imperial agents, most notably the Dark Jedi Mara Jade, and over one-fifth of the population of Mandalore
>Luke went missing years ago after he was forced to use Sith powers to save troops under his command- First Order and Republic alike are looking for him
>Military forces mainly consist of human/alien troops, supplemented with battle droids as cannon fodder and Force-sensitives as elite soldiers. They go for a “quality over quantity” approach.
>Some Seperatist elements are present, but largely kept in check
>Primary fighter is the Incom Corporation X-Wing; while more expensive than the TIE fighter, it has superior armor and limited auto-repair, while maintaining similar mobility and similar space usage
>Funds insurgency efforts in First Order territory
>Roughly ten years ago, Ben Solo fled the Jedi Academy with several Sith Holocrons and defected to the Empire; whereabouts are unknown but Leia and Han are still looking for leads

>>44529760
First Order Information

>Capital is Coruscant
>First Order has recently started purges of high-ranking and low-ranking members alike; driving them to the Republic
>Military forces primarily consist of clones and conscripts, Knights of Ren are their elites
>Primary fighter is TIE fighter- while inferior to the X-Wing, it is much cheaper to produce
>Knights of Ren are essentially Imperial FOXHOUND/Cobra Unit/Dead Cell; they don’t necessarily have to use the Force
>Example- Jia-Jia Ren, a traitor Gungan whose Force ability can manipulate probability to suit his whims- or Simo Ren, a Corellian sniper who has over 400 confirmed Republic trooper kills

>>44529760
>>44529738
okay I'm listening

>>44529777
>Example- Jia-Jia Ren, a traitor Gungan whose Force ability can manipulate probability to suit his whims- or Simo Ren, a Corellian sniper who has over 400 confirmed Republic trooper kills
And now I'm memeing

>>44529777
>Ben Solo is a lieutenant in the Knights under the name Kylo Ren; he defected because he disagreed with the New Republic’s style of governance and wanted to become more powerful
>While he is a powerful Force user, he lacks focus; he is unable to master fully light or dark side of Force; but as a result, he is well-versed in all Force techniques
>This is a reason why he’s risen so high in Knights so quickly- his versatility means he is deadly in all situations
>Recently, spirit of Darth Plagueis has been haunting him in his dreams, whispering Sith secrets in his ear- telling him that the true nature of the Sith is not cruelty for the sake of cruelty- but power for the sake of power
>Secretly, the First Order’s leader, Supreme Leader Snoke, is possessed by the spirit of Palpatine, who wants to take Ben’s body for his own while wresting the knowledge gained from Plagueis from his mind
>They have academy dedicated to indoctrination and Force usage- they teach the Force-sensitives mainly light side techniques so as to not weaken the dark side
>Source of clones is Starkiller Base, a secret cloning facility on dark side of Praxis V- they are not only cloning the standard Jango Fetts, they are experimenting with cloning Jedi, especially Anakin Skywalker
>They use reverse-engineered Spaarti cloning cylinders, allowing them to grow and train clones in 1/10 of the time it normally takes
>Captain Phasma is a captain of her elite squad of Mandalorian stormtroopers who works closely with the Knights of Ren; she and her troops are going to be constant threat through campaign.
>General Hux is overseer of Starkiller Base and his new Starkiller Platoon (formed solely from Starkiller Base clones)
>Throughout all this, Admiral Gilad Pellaeon is in charge of ferrying the Stormtroopers (and Hux, and Phasma, and Kylo) from planet to planet with his Star Destroyer Chimera- he can be talked down and convinced to defect with enough luck and diplomatic skill

>>44529803
So what do you figure,Kylo Ren could be convinced too?

>>44529738
>it tried much too hard to emulate Episode IV
I always find this complaint amusing because, to me, that's only half of the problem. It tries to emulate IV AND V at the same time, leading to an incredibly rushed movie that doesn't explain anything and tries to jam too much into one movie. You know how some cereal boxes will have prizes inside, at the bottom of the box, and the idea is you're supposed to eat all the cereal and then get the prize? VII is the kid that says fuck that, rips open the bag, spilling the cereal all over the place, and grabs the prize. It tries to do all the interesting, exciting stuff without actually setting up anything. Like how Rey pretty much becomes a Jedi at the end of the movie because "WE NEED A LIGHTSABER FIGHT NOW!" instead of waiting for the next movie.

At least, that's just how I felt.

>>44530054
Yes, but only after an epic confrontation in which he tries to kill the party after being possessed by Palpatine's ghost.

As for Plagueis's spirit, I'd imagine that he'd be relatively more chill with the idea- Ben has a good Sith mentality but with some moral compunctions- he won't betray his "master" and even if he did, Plagueis is a fucking ghost. Can't do sh*t to them.

>>44530166
There was the "father and son on a catwalk, 'join me/come with me', 'you know it's true/you know it to be true" thing from Empire.
What was from Return?

>>44531561
Nothing that I can think of, though I didn't mention VI in my post.

This thread sounds so much worse...

>>44531756
I completely agree with both of you. Even considering the implications of the completely noncanonical and Jojoesque "High Ground," I thought the lightsaber duels at the end were completely stupid. I mean, Ren was an emotional wreck, but Rey and Finn had no experience with a lightsaber. It just felt forced.

>>44531812
In what ways? OP's trying too hard to blend Episode VII and the EU canon, but I don't see anything particularly wrong with it.

>>44531840
By the way, that part were Ren sort of hits himself... what the hell was that about? He did it a few times at the end, and I have no idea why.

Also, Adam Driver was an awful casting choice. They never should've let him take his mask off. His face just doesn't fit the character at all, which is a shame, because he has such a cool design. Though after VII, I really don't give a shit about any character save Finn.

>>44531928
he'd been gutshot by Chewie and was probably hitting himself to keep the pain/rage fresh so that he could stay up during the saber fights

>>44531812
Eh, to be honest, I'm not exactly fond of the proposed ideas either. I'd actually like to leave the Legends EU to be its own thing and let VII develop new stories as well. Though I wouldn't mind adapting some Legends ideas.

Though honestly, anything at this point would be better than what VII gave us, since it did fuck all for worldbuilding.

>>44531998
That's basically the entire movie in a nutshell: it's a cool fact that would enhance our perception of this character and his place in the story, BUT IT'S NOT ACTUALLY IN THE FUCKING MOVIE so it's just this weird thing that nobody talked about.
It also doesn't help that nearly everything we know about the Sith is from the EU. We have no idea what he's doing: Luke, Anakin/Vader, Maul, Palpatine and Dooku didn't purposefully hurt themselves when they tried to use the dark side or gave in to it, so how the hell are we supposed to know that's what he's doing there?
It's like if we got the story of the Clone Wars in II and III, but Leia's message in IV didn't mention it at all, so Luke and Ben never talked about it. Oh yeah, there was this whole war thing, it was super important to galactic politics, it's how they went from Republic to Empire, it was the origin of the main bad guys in the first movie. Didn't you know? It was in the databook. Did you buy the databook?
>>44531928
I can't really give a shit about Finn either. Why is he so okay with killing his former comrades, when he and the audience know that they're just like him: conscripts raised to be soldiers with no real knowledge of anything else? How is killing all those other stormtroopers not affecting Finn in the slightest? Why is Finn a blank slate who has literally never been in a battle before and has never committed an atrocity? Who decided our first foray into the mind of a stormtrooper was going to be the odd man out? Who in their right mind would think a blank slate deciding to be good just because is somehow better than a bad guy deciding to be good after some life-changing experiences and soul-searching? What bozo thought that "You don't know the things I've seen" is a more powerful, emotionally-weighty line than "You don't know the things they've done" (where "they" is really "I", but the people at the table wouldn't know that)?

>>44532478
Good point. I did like Finn's bit at the beginning, easily one of the best parts of the movie for me (right up there with Kylo's trick with the blaster shot) but yes, it would have been far more poignant if we got to see him do some bad stuff first, maybe hesitantly, THEN rebel.

>Did you buy the databook?
I genuinely do feel like I know more about the characters from material and interviews done before the movie than from anything I saw in the actual movie itself. Like Kylo Ren, who had so much promise, who I thought would basically be a pro-Imperial Luke Skywalker who is on the Imperial side because he had an awful childhood. But no, he's just another Sith asshole who wants UNLIMITED POWAH! Fucking hell.

Oh, and Poe Dameron. He's important? He was barely in the fucking movie. Granted, his trick with the X-Wing was cool, but that was it.

Oh, and Max von Sydow got a single minute of screentime? SERIOUSLY?! People were speculating endlessly about what his role would be, thinking he'd be important or something. NOPE.

And Captain Phasma. Looks like a badass. Cool. Some sort of Sotrmtrooper general. Cool. Female stormtrooper. Hmm, never seen that before, that's new. DOES FUCKING NOTHING AND GETS DISPATCHED WITH A JOKE.

>>44532811
I think the movie's biggest problem was that they shit the bed worrying over whether people would like it so they decided what the flick needed was an hour-long arc of redoing the second half of ANH over again and giving us Death Star 3.0. Seriously the moment the Starkiller enters the movie you can practically hear the plot of 'find Luke Skywalker' suddenly slam on the brakes and throw itself into reverse.

>>44533331
Ugh, you're right. Good god VII was a disappointment. I can only hope that the anthology films are good. Rogue One looks interesting, and I do want to see some Fett action. At least Rebels is decent, though I no longer care whether or not Finn is descended from that one kid.

You know, part of me really wonders what they're going to do for plot. I mean, given the speed they've been doing things, Snoke will be dead or defeated by VIII. I would joke about bringing in the Vong or something similar for IX, but they might actually do that. Actually, that's something that's really sad. So many of the mistakes in the movie were things people had been worrying about from the beginning. Like, someone joked that there would be another trench run for Starkiller Base, and I dismissed it completely. Then I see the movie, and it actually came true.

Oh, and is it just me, or was VII built on the expectation that you'd already seen all the other movies? I cam only imagine people new to Star Wars scratching their head about... well, everything.

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>>44533502
I imagine (and what I want for) the next film will chiefly revolve around defeating the Knights of Ren (Kylo's buddies from the flashback) along with revealing just who the fuck Snoke is, then IX will be about killing him and dealing with Kylo himself.
>Oh, and is it just me, or was VII built on the expectation that you'd already seen all the other movies?
Pretty much, but I can't imagine that's much of a problem since the Star Wars films so universally known that even the comparatively few people who haven't seen them have at least heard the gist.

>>44533502
>Rogue One
>Star Wars media for mass consumption
>with zero jedi except maybe Vader
I'm super scared, guys.

>>44533331
>so they decided what the flick needed was an hour-long arc of redoing the second half of ANH over again and giving us Death Star 3.0
Not just the second half.
>desert planet
>empire attacks
>escape with the Falcon
>meet old guy with impressive resume
>use planet-buster
>that fucking flophouse Maz runs, holy shit I have never seen anything trying so hard in my life, you're not Lucas, JJ, and this sure as shit isn't a cantina in Mos Eisley

>>44533502
They'd bring in Vong for 9. They'd be defeated in one movie, and instead of being this weird completely alien (even by SW standards, which is a fucking good thing) race with their own society, morals and culture detached from the galactic norm, with religious motivations into gray humanoids with no culture to explore
Though I will say the Vong are very much a product of their time.
>religiously motivated bad guys during the War on Terror, complete with a "it's actually a religion of peace, Yun-Yammka is a heresy and doesn't exist"
>hierarchy based on body mods
>biotech

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>>44529803
>bus-driver

Successful derailment from the topic

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>>44533829
>Knights of Ren
Ugh... I was interested in them before, but now... I mean, if Kylo's anything to go by, they're probably just as pants-on-head retarded as the Sith, so no thanks. Fucking hell, talk about promise. The guys looked like something out of Seven Samurai. Hell, we see more of them from the trailers than the actual fucking movie. Man, is it too much to ask for some darksiders that don't have the same problems as the Sith? I really liked how they were done in "The Star Wars", a comic book mini-series based on some of the early drafts for ANH. Writing's not great though, pretty glad they didn't use those drafts. Pic related.

>Snoke
Don't give a fuck, just kill him already. Same for Kylo. Also, was I the only one kinda confused about him using a hologram? Like, it just makes me question if he's actually a giant, or it's just the hologram that's making him look huge. It just strikes me as odd.

>>44534010
>>with zero jedi except maybe Vader
This is pretty much the entire reason I'm desperately hoping for it to be good.

>>44534079
>>that fucking flophouse Maz runs
I kinda felt sorry for JJ there. It's like he saw his beloved pet killed in front of him and he's trying to stitch it back together and pretend like it's still alive.

>>44534208
Shut up Revan. You got derailed from the Jedi, the Sith, the galaxy, your body, and good canon.

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>>44534265
this comic was such a trip

I enjoyed it, but man

>>44534307
Yeah, it's pretty fortunate that they didn't actually use any of this stuff. Though I'm always up for taking old/rejected concepts and using them again, as Rebels loves to do.

>>44534010
ANTO-MAN in space

>>44534265
>Also, was I the only one kinda confused about him using a hologram? Like, it just makes me question if he's actually a giant, or it's just the hologram that's making him look huge. It just strikes me as odd.
The only possible twist here is that the Emperor had this huge-ass hologram of himself that Vader would kneel before, but he was actually a short, frail old man with UNLIMITED POWER - Snoke has a huge-ass hologram too, but jokes on you, he's actually that big.

>>44534375
???

>>44534402
>he's actually that big.
I'm pretty sure in the Star Wars universe bigger is worse. Super star destroyer, Death Star, Starkiller Base, and that's just canon stuff. Legends had stuff like the Darksaber, which was a complete wreck.

Why so much hate for Kylo Ren? He's great in the movie, and represents a young dark jedi in training perfectly - lords over the weak, full of anger and fear, desires great power but is actually pretty weak, comes from imposing prestige but has little personal talent. He took an important step in removing what bonds him to a greater purpose than himself, and now can be pushed to greater power to return as a greater threat.

Kylo Ren is something good that came from Episode VII, and has a ton of potential in future movies. He's what everyone wanted Anakin to be in the prequels (except Anakin is already incredibly powerful in the force).

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>>44534466
>daddy issues

he's just the sort of villain that is easy and fun to hate

>>44534284
That fanfaggot who copied my style... Grain... Rane..?

Isn't he Canon, so I must be Canon as the reason he adopted his Nietzsche Wannabe attitude?

>>44534466
The good part is all that you've said about him is information we learn just from watching the movie.
The bad part is that he gets beaten by a Mary Sue, instead of an equally-three-dimensional and fleshed-out character.

>>44534466
>Why so much hate for Kylo Ren?
Many reasons. Let's see...
>Adam Driver. Worst casting choice I've ever seen in Star Wars. The man kills the character.
>Taking off his mask. Well, there goes all terror, menace, and coolness that villain once had.
>Mysterious backstory hinted at... then completely explained. Thanks for ruining this cool character's mystique Jar Jar Abrams.
>Kills Han for no reason.
>Gets bitch-slapped by some random punks, one of which has no force powers, the other found out she had force powers only in the last 24 hours or so.
>Wants power because... he wants to be as powerful as Vader... because. Completely retarded motivation.
>Has little temper tantrums like some fucking baby.
I could probably come up with more, but my hate for him is making it hard to think about it.

>>44534466
Simple, he isn't me.

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>>44534590
>no badass image showing you off
Statement: I am very disappointed in you, master.

>>44534530
>namefagging and roleplaying in the same post
The Darth Bane books are non-canon, so the idea that Revan influenced the Rule of Two is non-canon.
However, since both Revan and Bane appear in the Clone Wars series finale, the characters themselves are canon, with no history we've seen yet.

>>44534582
>>Kills Han for no reason.
It's Sasuke Uchiha all over again. "I have to cut my ties to gain power"

>>44534644
I left my name up from a previous thread, I have decided to embrace it

>>44534541
>Rey is a Mary Sue meme
I agree Rey is less flashed out than Finn and Kylo Ren, who were the focus of the movie talking about a major blow to the First Order and ends with Rey continuing her Jedi training that was wiped from her memory when she was dumped on Jakku and Han was left to monitor her (just a guess, but it seems obvious). Rey's movie is Episode VIII. Her force potential is established to be much greater than Kylo's in the movie, and her obsession with "I MUST RETURN TO JAKKA, I MUST WAIT FOR MY FAMILY TO RETURN" is super Jedi mind-trick-y. She also gets parts of her memory back just from touching a lightsaber, and Kylo's force mind probe ability seemed to caused something else to click into place. It's sloppy in the sense that it is written with the trilogy in mind, but there was never any doubt of second movie.

I can't agree with the "she's an excellent pilot" thing when she is easily tailed by 2 tie fighters in her home turf with the Millennium Falcon, and Finn does all the work. She can't even manage to get the shields up without a co-pilot while Han and Chewy work as a pair in the same ship without that issue. Han, on the other hand, performs multiple impossible piloting feats without batting an eye as a senior citizen. And as far as being a fighter and mechanic, she lives a life where she can barely feed herself without an extensive knowledge of the imperial fleet and would obviously need to protect her treasure from others.

Great character? No. Boring? Kinda. Mary Sue? Not even a little.

>>44534738
I'm curious. What was the thread?

>>44534911
>Someone calls my fav character shit.
>I'll write a long response refuting how wrong that person is.
Holy fuck, it's like I'm on Tumblr.

Yes, Rey is a Mary Sue. She pretty much becomes a Jedi in about 24 hours, and beats an incredibly strong force user. Not even Anakin, the fucking Chosen One, did that.

>>44534911
>>44535052
Oh, also
>Rey: I can master skills I've never even heard about before! Yay me!

I fucking hate Rey because she continues the Star Wars trend of only focusing on force-users. This was a problem in the old EU, and will likely be a problem in the new.

>>44534079
> you're not Lucas, JJ

And thank fucking god. Everything in the Star Wars Trilogy that is good and memorable happened in spite of Lucas, not because of him. I know it's cool to hate things on the internet, but I thought VII was exactly the shot in the arm the franchise needed. Is the Starkiller kinda dumb? Sure. Does the movie follow the formula of IV a little too closely? Probably. But I don't give a shit about that, because the Force is cool again, the characters are as relatable and interesting as they've ever been, and above all, it was a good movie on its own merits. Do you know how long it's been since I didn't want to see a Star Wars movie purely because it was a Star Wars movie, and not because I genuinely enjoyed it? Because I don't.

>>44535052
>Kylo Ren
>Incredibly strong
The movie plainly states he is weak in the force.

>>44535094
>The problem is focusing on force users
Dude... you came to the wrong franchise.

>>44534911
Half of your post requires fanfiction to oppose the claim that Rey is not a Mary Sue.
The other half is reasonable, though the Falcon is supposed to be flown with a co-pilot. Rey just needed an extra person there to push buttons on the other side of the cockpit.

>>44534582
you are supposed to hate him, anon

he is what the dark side looks like in the young

a tryhard little shit, a school shooter with a lightsaber, someone desperately trying to convince himself and the world around him he is not just a scared and hurting child.

you give Kylo Ren twenty years of self-hatred that can only be vented in the moments his master allows him to kill, and he will be Darth Vader, a hollow, broken shell of a man whose failures have to get in line to haunt him, who cannot be said to despair only because he has long since forgotten what it means to hope.

and then he hears the name Skywalker again.

and the flicker of hope that damned him flashes back into life.

none of which you saw in Episode IV, incidentally; in Episode IV Darth Vader's character, in its entirety, was "I Am A Guy In A Scary Suit Of Armor."

remind you of anyone in TFA

>>44535139
>The movie plainly states he is weak in the force.
I must've missed that when he used the force to FREEZE A BLASTER BOLT IN MID-AIR. He's the grandson of one of the most powerful force-users to exist, and the movie shows us that he's very powerful as well.

>Dude... you came to the wrong franchise.
I said "only focusing on force-users". In the original trilogy, there were four, one of which never displayed any powers, and another was only seen in the last, and not for very long either. In TFA, Poe and Finn are thrown under the bus for Rey. Fuck, Poe was barely in the movie!

>>44535199
But I didn't HATE Anakin. And to be honest, I actually don't have as much of a negative opinion of the prequel trilogy as most people seem to have.

>>44535169
And yet everything I said about her force powers comes from the movie. She sees memories of the past with the lightsaber, there's no denying that, so she has some connection to Luke and the knights of Ren killing the students under him. Assuming she had some training is not fanfiction.

>>44535139
nah, he's strong in the force, but he's very poorly trained. as Oz the Great And Powerful makes it clear, he ain't gonna get his training finished while his master still thinks he's at risk of switching sides again. he knows a couple of really neat tricks, but his confidence is easily shaken, and in a world of do or do not, there is no try, having easily shaken confidence is what we in the business call a Problem.

i absolutely love that despite the gut shot and being totally fucked in the head, he is STILL kicking Rey's ass until he says the single stupidest thing he could possibly say.

"icouldteachyouto USE THE FORCE"

And oh. Right.

That's a thing, isn't it. From the stories. Someone tells you to use the force.

And you do the impossible.

Yeah, it's just a rip-off of IV. But it's a REALLY well done rip-off of IV.

>>44535329
>Rationalizing shitty writing.
Part of me feels sorry for you. Another part of me wants you to shut the hell up.

>>44535329
Or it could be Force-induced visions, a la Empire. Luke didn't see memories, he saw events he wasn't around to remember.

>>44535329
>She sees memories of the past with the lightsaber, there's no denying that, so she has some connection to Luke

Or maybe she is just seeing Luke's shit? It is his lightsaber.

all this ren posting

>>44535309
>In the original trilogy, there were four, one of which never displayed any powers, and another was only seen in the last, and not for very long either.
Which one of the four never displayed any powers?
>Vader chokes a man with his mind in his second scene
>"These aren't the droids you're looking for" - Ben Kenobi
>Luke aiming the torpedoes, grabbing the lightsaber, levitating rocks, etc
>LIGHTNING FINGERS

>>44535309
You are confusing Kylo being trained in the force with being all powerful in the force. He stops a blaster bolt instead of deflecting it back at Poe's leg, meaning it he was already less capable than Anakin. He is able to beat up non-force users easily but his master constantly reminds him his training is far from complete. Hell, even Rey is able to get under his skin by mocking his power, and Snoke is more interested in Rey than him almost immediately. There is no reason to think he is strong other than he comes from an imposing lineage.

>>44535430
I miscounted. There are six. I'll leave you to figure out who didn't display any Force powers.

>>44535309
you didn't hate Anakin because George Lucas can't write a character to save his damn life. feeling anything regarding Anakin beyond 'kid's kind of a dbag' is a tremendous rarity. George Lucas can do some amazing visual storytelling! The designs of Otoh Gunga, the Trade Federation armies, the Galactic Senate, the Naboo ships, the podracers, and even the Gungan army are all wonderfully evocative, hinting at lengthy stories of a kind we can only imagine.

And imagine them we do, because the alternative is listening to Jar Jar Binks talk.

>>44535199
>none of which you saw in Episode IV, incidentally; in Episode IV Darth Vader's character, in its entirety, was "I Am A Guy In A Scary Suit Of Armor."
They didn't have to, because Vader wasn't riding another character's coattails, literally and figuratively, to exist.
Kylo Ren isn't interesting in a vacuum, because he is who he is because of the main cast of the OT.

>>44535422
welcome to 4chan

renposting is a way of life

>>44531928
Actually, I know what that was and >>44531998 guy has a pretty close explanation.
Given that we see Chewie's bowcaster literally blowing holes in people's torsos (right through stormtrooper armor in a few scenes if you watch), I think we can assume Kylo Ren was wearing REALLY good body armor shit.
I served in the Armed Forces and had the pleasant experience of taking a round right in my vest at one point, which left me fucked up and made it hard to breathe until I could get it looked at because of my bruised ribs.
I actually kept having to hit my side below my ribcage to force proper air in and out of my chest, though later my doctor told me it was a bad idea and I should've just stopped trying to tough it out until our patrol got done.

What Kylo Ren was doing looked a lot like what I was doing, though also I saw some blood so clearly the bowcaster penetrated at least a little bit.

>>44535475
>Yoda lifting the X-wing out of the muck
>Leia sensing that Luke survived Death Star 2: Explosive Boogaloo, without any reason to think so
>>44535503
Yo what the fuck, that's nuts

>>44535338
And that's the other thing, Rey loses to Ren but Ren was instructed to bring her to Snoke in person.

>>44535484
so Kylo believes. and it is why he fails. he believes he is nothing more than his parents' children, and Vader's grandson. that there is nothing more to him than where he came from.

two scavengers of a glorious and forgotten past meet in battle, and the better scavenger wins.

up until he reminds his enemy that she doesn't have to be a prisoner to her past forever.

>>44535503
I just wish it, like so much else, had actually been explained in the movie. But that is an interesting explanation, thanks.

>>44535473
I'm sorry, but I feel like you're reading way too much into this.

>>44535564
Fine, I was wrong about Leia. While Force-users are important, I just don't like it when every other character is pretty much pushed aside to give the Force-users more screentime, which definitely looks like what is happening with Rey.

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>>44529738
I'd personally just do a Star Wars EU kinda thing. I couldn't bring myself to watch EP VII. I respect Kyle & the rest too much for that.

>>44535564
>Yo what the fuck, that's nuts
It's not actually as harrowing as it sounds.

You can get similar injuries that are even worse playing football apparently; when I saw my doctor and we took x-rays for something else he noticed tiny microfractures on my ribs and asked me if I played football, which surprised me until he explained it and I related the story.

My vest totally stopped the round (I was wearing a trauma plate so I was as safe as you can get wearing body armor), it just hurt like a son of a bitch and made me wheeze like I had asthma or something for a few days.

If it had actually GONE THROUGH the vest I wouldn't be posting this shit; the bullet hit me on my left side and if it had gone through I'd have a hole in my lung the size of a quarter and that basically be it for me.

>>44535669
you condemn Han Solo to an eternity of being handed a random generalship so he has something to do while Luke solves the actual problem.

give him what Harrison Ford wanted, anon.

let him die.

>>44535665
Oh I agree with you. That's why I'm scared that Rogue One isn't going to do well with audiences - there's no Jedi. Though we had the X-wing books, and every storyline was almost never totally Jedi, the public at large doesn't know that, all they know is all Jedi, all the time.
I feel the same way about humans too - I hate that I have to go to comic books and Canadian shonen anime to get an alien perspective in Star Wars.

>>44535630
Too real

>>44535665
With your desire for detailed exposition in a movie, I can see why you think the prequels are not shit. If you want that level of detail read the novelizations and never, ever review movies.

>>44535630
I made a joke about Sasuke earlier, but I was wrong.
It's clearly Neji and Naruto.
Ren is Neji (the older one with the good pedigree and skills who believes there's nothing more to life than who your family is and how you were born).
Rey is Naruto (the underdog with no family but fuck it I'mma do my own thing).
And in both scenarios the underdog won, but Naruto was revealed to have a better pedigree than Neji with his own clan to boot, and Rey is clearly Luke's daughter ("This lightsaber belonged to Luke Skywalker, and to his father before him, and now it calls to you").

>>44534466
As I've explained to other people about Kylo Ren's character he's a person who has lived in the shadows of his elders his entire life and wants to forge his own path and be free of the long shadow his relatives cast.
Look at his family. His parents and Uncle were war heroes in the Rebellion. His Mother is royalty and probably a powerful politician, his father is a famous pilot and general and his Uncle killed a deathstar, toppled the Empire and is an actual Jedi....His Grandfather is fucking Darth Vader....Now imagine growing up in that sort of environment....Having to live up to those expectations to do great things. Not just by your parents, but by everyone around you.

Kylo Ren is insecure, filled with a gnawing sense of self doubt that he won't manage to surpass his relations and desperately wants to forge his own path that wasn't laid down by his parents. He's convinced that becoming Kylo Ren and casting aside his old identity will make him his own man, create his own place in the galaxy. Something he's earned and wasn't handed to him or foisted upon him.

He's an intriguing character.

>>44534541
To be fair to Kylo. He was shot in the gut by a Bowcaster and was bleeding out like a stuck pig, Finn also managed to wear him down way before Rey fought him. Also his emotions were likely in turmoil after what he did on the catwalk.
Basically he was nowhere near his peak. If he was Rey and Finn would have been ganked.

>>44534923
Destroy the Godmodder

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>>44535703
That must've been an interesting conversation.
>Hmm... these injuries... do you play football?
>Uh, no, I was shot.
>Ah, my mistake.

>>44535743
Yeah, I really hope Rogue One does well. Though I have to say, they should've picked a title without "Rogue" in it. Totally gives off the wrong impression to SW fans.

>I feel the same way about humans too
I never really thought about that, but that is a good point. Curious, what are your favorite SW aliens? I've always thought the Gand were kinda interesting myself.

>>44535865
It's not that they have to explain everything, it's just that TFA explains nothing. I have about a million questions for that movie that I'll probably have to trudge though all the new books for, but fuck that.

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>>44531928
Ren probably hits himself to get some sort of Dark Side rage/pain power-up
Or he's using some sort of force technique to stop the bleeding, I had a character in Legends of the Wulin do something similar after his arm was cut off

>>44535912
Can you explain it in such a way that it makes sense to someone who wasn't there?

>>44535924
Breif derailment, ( kek) has anyone read the Bounty Hunter Wars?

>>44535924
The movie is dense with visual information, so use that.

>>44535782
seriously, people put some thought into this shit

not enough, imo, because Starkiller Base could have been cut with nothing of value having been lost to this movie. (I can see the argument that they needed some way to bring the Republic down to Not The Guys In Charge levels for the next two) but there's some thought that went into the underlying themes.

The Force Awakens is a movie about how you have to let go of your past to move forward. It's just really goddamn telling that the movie's single biggest flaw is the bit of the original trilogy they felt like they had to do a third fucking time.

>>44535094
>I can master skills I've never even heard about before

Like mechanics! Oh, wait, she has worked as a junk scrapper for her entire life.

Or melee combat! No, wait, they established she was pretty good at that.

Or shooting blasters! Eh, she does it like once and isn't even that accurate.

Piloting? Yeah, because Luke was established as such an ace pilot in episode 4.

>>44535473
Wrong. He was showing off in that scene were he stopped a Blaster Bolt. Considering how big a blast Poe's blaster packs, deflecting it is a terrible idea and he needs to be interrogated. Not blown up.

Rey got under his skin by intuiting that his fear was not being as powerful as his Grandfather. Which considering Kylo Ren's background and family would be a pretty big deal.

>>44535996
Her piloting isn't even above the TIE pilots!

>>44535996

They did establish Luke as an ace pilot though.

>>44535924
>That must've been an interesting conversation.

It was actually almost that exactly except what he said to me was
>"Oh, well that'll do it."

>>44535948
A battle against a being with a fuckton of abilites and ridiculous amounts of crossovers

>>44536053
When, exactly? Was that before or after he blew up the first death star?

>>44535992
>The Force Awakens is a movie about how you have to let go of your past to move forward. It's just really goddamn telling that the movie's single biggest flaw is the bit of the original trilogy they felt like they had to do a third fucking time.
Starkiller was far from the only time it clings to the past. That's it's biggest flaw.
>>44535996
Staff fighting is not the same as sword fighting. Hell, fighting with any weapon you've never used before is a recipe for disaster, since you need time to do things like adjust to heft and balance. Luke had years to figure out how lightsabers worked, and still got walked on by Vader until he gave in to the dark side in Return.
>>44536119
>Piloting? Yeah, because Luke was established as such an ace pilot in episode 4.
Luke wanted to go to the Imperial Academy to be a pilot. He had a T16 he flew around and shot womp rats with. Uncle Owen didn't object to him leaving because he wasn't that good a pilot, it was because they wanted to keep him here, away from all that Jedi shit that got his parents killed.
>>44536030
>turn off the engines in midair
>turn them back on before you hit the ground
>on purpose to pull off a maneuver to aim a now-stationary turret YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE AND HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT'S POINTED at a moving target
>not to mention flying through the Star Destroyer and not once scraping the insides
That's some damn good flying.
>>44536026
Also notice how he has the bolt stopped for the entire scene. It's just there, in the air, quivering.

>>44536119

He flew around in his plane shooting womp rats and had aspirations to becoming an Imperial pilot. He might not have been an ace, but it was certainly established that he had skill.

>>44535338
>REALLY well done
ehh

It's definitely interesting to look at them side by side and see how cinema has changed in the past forty years.

>>44535980
Yes. Not all of it though, just parts. Though I really liked the Zuckuss/4-LOM story.

>>44535996
>Like mechanics! Oh, wait, she has worked as a junk scrapper for her entire life.
Pulling parts out of wrecks doesn't mean you know what those parts do.

>Or melee combat! No, wait, they established she was pretty good at that.
She was skilled with a staff, not a lightsaber.

>Or shooting blasters! Eh, she does it like once and isn't even that accurate.
I would never have brought that up specifically.

>Piloting? Yeah, because Luke was established as such an ace pilot in episode 4.
Uh... yeah, they kinda did. OK, maybe not an ACE, but the movie makes it clear that he does have experience in flying, and he's pretty good at it. Luke says he could probably fly his own ship, Biggs vouches for him, and Luke talks about hitting 2-meter targets no problem. The only thing he does that's really out there is when he destroys the Death Star without the targeting computer, and even then, Ben had to speak to him from beyond the grave to get him to do it. Besides, Luke was already going through Jedi training in the movie. Not much, sure, but a lot more than Rey got.

>>44536105
>Eh, getting shot, playing football. At the end of the day, it's mostly the same.

>>44535924
I liked the Kilik Hive.

>>44536194
>Pulling parts out of wrecks doesn't mean you know what those parts do.
But anon, didn't you read the databook? She built that speeder from scratch
Wouldn't it have been nice to know that in the movie?

>>44536215
>Kilik Hive
Yeesh... no offense, but whenever I think of those guys, I always think "Oh yeah, the bugfuckers." But seriously, the whole mind thing is just creepy.

>>44536251
Would've been easy.
>BB-8: *Beep*
>Rey: Oh, that? I built it from scratch.

>>44536251
>Wouldn't it have been nice to know that in the movie?

It seems that's the running theme. Everything in the movie does make sense, but they skipped over a lot of explanations since they assumed the audience would get it.

She does a bunch of high-level tech stuff. If you watched the movie, you'd assume this was due to her work as a scrapper. If you read further into it, she's actually a very skilled mechanic. If you didn't pay attention, it seems like an ass-pull.

Same with Ren. Rey beating him seems like kind of an ass-pull, if you don't notice he was hit by the bowcaster and bleeding pretty badly.

So I guess the conclusion is that the people who thought the movie was full of ass-pulls need their hands held and everything explained to them?

>>44536322

More like the movie needed better pacing and shouldn't have tried to cram a whole new movie and every plot point from ANH into a 136 minute runtime.

>>44536194
she's wielding the lightsaber like a staff though

it's one of the little touches that you won't notice unless you're a martial arts nerd: unlike the lightsaber duels in the prequels, which are 95% dance party, Kylo Ren moves and fights like a dude with a heavy sword, Finn moves and fights like a dude with a truncheon that is inconveniently suddenly sharp on the one end, and Rey moves and fights like someone with an inconveniently broken staff.

hence why Rey and Finn are so jab-heavy; that's how they've trained in melee combat. Kylo, by comparison, is basically swinging a laser club around: power attempting to compensate for a total lack of finesse.

>>44536353
and some from RotJ and Empire for good measure.

>>44536322
There's a very large division between getting no explanation for anything and getting a detailed backstory for every single thing that happens.

>>44536353
This guy gets it. Again, my main problem with the movie is that it has absolutely no pacing. It tries to cram ANH and a bunch of Empire plot points and events into the same movie at once, and it's clear that it just doesn't work. Some of the dialogue really suffers from this. To me at least, some of the dialogue didn't sound like a conversation between people living in this living complex world, but rather two actors trying to get from point A to point B in the script as quickly as possible.

>>44536402
I actually didn't really pick up on any RotJ stuff. Except maybe "I forgive you, come with me dad/son."

>>44536448
The entire death planet assault. Blowing the shield generator so the starfighters can finish the job.

>>44536266
As easy as establishing Luke as a good shot and pilot.
>You're going to have to hit the exhaust port, it's two meters wide.
>Two meters?! No one can hit a target that small, that's impossible!
>Is it? I used to shoot
>>44536322
>If you read further into it, she's actually a very skilled mechanic. If you didn't pay attention, it seems like an ass-pull.
They never say she's a good mechanic. The movie says she's a scrapper, and then has her do high-level tech stuff, and that's it. There's no way to read into her being a skilled mechanic beforehand, so the skills come out of nowhere. All we'd need to know is that she built a working speeder from scratch and my complaint would be invalid.
The part about her being a good mechanic and building the speeder from scratch is pulled from The Force Awakens: Visual Guide. It's not actually in the movie itself.
>>44536397
>she's wielding the lightsaber like a staff though
That's a reason for her to have lost.

>>44536397
he does enough spinning to make me think there's some finesse
And it was a good trick

>>44536415
TFA easily takes 2nd place all time for best Star Wars dialogue, mostly thanks to the fact George Lucas wrote all five non-Empire installments.

"But I was going to go to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters!"

"But these are my friends! Threepio, tell them they must be set free!"

"Meesa you humble servant!"

"If only Senator Amidala were here."

"FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE JEDI ARE EVIL."

I agree the movie could have benefited from giving some scenes more room to breathe, but if you're gonna start talking about awkward dialogue in a Star Wars movie we gonna be here a while.

>>44536514
and it's a big part of why she was losing! hard!

until she stops trying to draw strength from her past, and starts trying to use the force. and suddenly captain von confidence issues out the ass is in trouble.

fight choreography was really excellent.

>>44536514
whoops
>Is it? I used to shoot womp rats in my T16 back home, they're not much bigger than 2 meters
>>44536537
?"But I was going to go to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters!"
I don't see the problem with this line. Luke wanted to do something, his parental substitutes say no, Luke whines about it.

>>44536514
not to mention luke saying he could fly them off of tatooine instead of relying on han

>>44536514
>That's a reason for her to have lost.

Not any of the other guys, but at least in regards to the lightsaber battle, Rey winning is totally reasonable simply because Kylo had been shot at least once with Chewbacca's crossbow, and was injured a couple of other times as well. That's going to impact his ability to fight.

And even then, Rey wasn't able to kill him.

>>44536480
Oh, right. Yeah, going into Starkiller Base definitely struck me as pulling from RotJ. Though it doesn't really last that long.

Speaking of Starkiller Base, how where they planning on using it after they eat their sun? Were they going to move the entire fucking planet to a new solar system?

>>44536514
>As easy as establishing Luke as a good shot and pilot.
Yeah, exactly. You literally just need to drop a line or two beforehand.

>>44536537
Those are individual lines, not conversations between people. And none of those really have the same problem I mentioned with TFA. Except maybe the fourth, I can't quite remember what that's from. And yes, the fifth is awful. I also don't see a problem with the first, and it does add a bit to the inner conflict with Luke in ANH. He keeps having his own plans put aside in order to do what his uncle wishes instead.

>>44536623
As a point of fact the full line is (and is said somewhat dismissively too on Luke's part):

>Random Pilot Guy: "That's impossible, even for a computer!"
>Luke: "It's not impossible, I used to bullseye whomp rats in my T-16 back home, they aren't much bugger then two meters.

Oh Jesus, I'm sorry. I'm not usually the kind of fan who has to correct everyone's misquoted lines, I dunno what happened there.

Oh, speaking of quotes, how is it that Rey thinks Luke is just a myth, yet she knows almost exactly the line that Han gave Luke and Ben about the Falcon? Other than fanwank, that is. (BTW, the parsecs thing, if you look at ANH, it does look like Han's just bullshitting them, given Ben and Luke's reactions. Sorry, just wanted to say that.)

>>44536623
fair, the delivery on that one was more of what I was thinking of

consider forcing Sir Alec Guinness to say the sentence "Only a master of evil, Darth." appropriately substituted

This is an interesting discussion. By all means, continue. When this thread autosages, I'll post this again, and hopefully I can get some constructive criticism and ideas.

>>44534156

The Vong are the single worst addition to the EU. A group of aliens that can't be affected by the Force because lol Obi-Wan said the Force binds the galaxy together and they're from outside the galaxy aren't we clever? Get right the fuck out of here with that shit.

Even the best parts of the EU were too much of a good thing. KOTOR and its progeny, fun as they were, turned into these massive systematic regimens of how the Force worked (also, cutting people off from the Force was fucking stupid). VII's return to a mystical, esoteric Force is incredibly welcome, and I'm looking forward to seeing that develop as long as it doesn't turn into FORCE LIGHTNING CAN ONLY BE USED IF YOU HAVE ACQUIRED 15 EVIL POINTS, THE DARK AND LIGHT SIDES OF THE FORCE ARE CONCRETE THINGS INSTEAD OF A METAPHYSICAL ABSTRACTION, ALSO GREY JEDI LOL


I regret that we had to lose Thrawn and the rest of Zahn's surprisingly good work, but they were diamonds in a pile of shit.

>>44536762
The delivery was fine too. The line was him whining that he had plans, he doesn't want to do chores at home. It should sound whiny.
>>44536738
>yet she knows almost exactly the line that Han gave Luke and Ben about the Falcon?
The Falcon is a famous ship. Fought in the Rebellion and all that. He's probably told it to other people.
What I really wanted was for this to happen, it's such a small change but it'd be great
>"blah blah 14 parsecs!"
>"12!"
>beat
>to himself: "heh, maybe it was 14"
It would show that not only was he bullshitting, but even he doubts he was that consistent in his bullshitting.

>>44537081
Looks like someone didn't actually read the NJO. They got the Force stripped from them as a punishment because they were a shit race doing shit things. Them being from outside the galaxy is just a means for nobody to know about them (except for Palpatine, that's what Outbound Flight was for)

>>44537161
It might have been a bit cheesy, bit in the scene when Ren stabs him, I was really hoping Han would fall down and reveal a smoldering blaster in Ren's armor From where he shot first

>>44537081
>VII's return to a mystical, esoteric Force is incredibly welcome, and I'm looking forward to seeing that develop as long as it doesn't turn into FORCE LIGHTNING CAN ONLY BE USED IF YOU HAVE ACQUIRED 15 EVIL POINTS, THE DARK AND LIGHT SIDES OF THE FORCE ARE CONCRETE THINGS INSTEAD OF A METAPHYSICAL ABSTRACTION
Everything I've seen makes me think the new stuff is going to keep the black and white moral absolutism in the Force. Which I fucking hate because it means I'll never get my Darth Imperius well-meaning darksider.

>>44537081
i'm sympathetic to what they tried to do with the Vong. they failed miserably, mind, but the EU suffered HUGELY from the fact every other novel in it was "hey look at this alien threat that is WORSE THAN THE EMPIRE oh good Luke took care of it nvm."

for the first time they genuinely sold the idea that there were stakes, and the whole EU had to band together to fight them off.

unfortunately, the execution of everything beyond that, well, uh

yyyyyeeah.

>>44537081
>I regret that we had to lose Thrawn and the rest of Zahn's surprisingly good work, but they were diamonds in a pile of shit.
Literally the only thing of value lost.

>>44537317
I think the major problem with the Vong is that they were too many things at once.
>INVADING ALIENS!
>and
>THEY'RE OUTSIDE THE FORCE!
>and
>THEY'RE A WARRIOR RACE!
>and
>THEY'RE SADOMASOCHISTS!
>and
>THEY HATE ROBOTICS AND USE BIOTECHNOLOGY!
etc. ANY of those ideas could be used for an entire alien race by itself, but they decided to jam them all into one race.

>>44536514
The problem with Reys abilities is that they are a hold over from an earlier version of her backstory, where she worked for a second hand ship seller fixing old ships and practiced on flight simulators in her spare time.

>>44536397
>describing sword fighting as swinging a club around without any sort of finesse involved
>claims to know about martial arts

You clearly fucking don't, don't lie.

>>44536738
The scrapyard she relies on to live knows Han, and stole the Falcon.

>>44537226
Holy shit, that should have been what injured him
And it'd fit with the whole "back to the only thing I was ever any good at" thing, a backslide into his old ways.
>>44537396
Ok now that I'd believe. Same thing happened with Frozen - they'd originally written in a prophecy that specified a "sword sacrifice" to end an eternal winter. Prince Hans, a good guy, figured that meant Elsa needed to die to save the kingdom. In the climax, he moves to kill Elsa, Anna jumps between them.
But that was before Idina Menzel came in to sing "Let It Go", and they changed Elsa from an antagonist into a protagonist. Suddenly Hans had no reason to be there, but it was already animated, so they wrote him in as a lying douchebag last minute.
That's why, when he and Anna have their meet cute, and Anna runs off, Hans doesn't look devious or conniving (as would be expected if he were to be secretly an asshole - give the audience clues to know he's not on the up and up). That's why Hans helps out random peasants. That's why he makes it clear that anyone who tries to kill Elsa will answer to him. It would have made no sense to do these things if he was some evil villain.
But the script was written, and the scenes were being animated, so fuck it, throw it in.

>>44537467
No he didn't. He stole it from someone else, who stole it from someone else, who stole it from someone else, who stole it from Han.

Why do people want such detailed backstory?

I'm still comparing this to Fury Road in terms of relying on supplemental information for those curious and presenting only the required visual information for the story.

>>44537514
No, he stole it from someone else who stole it from Han - and Han recognized the name.

>>44535503
That's fuckin' crazy man, glad you made it out

>>44537504
>Holy shit, that should have been what injured him

Yeah, plus I think it would have helped since they could have focused on it and had it be a more clear wound, rather than the vagueness with the bowcaster.

>>44537539
Probably because they want to know what happened between RotJ and TFA. Like, how did the First Order come about? Why isn't the Republic fighting them directly? Things like that. In fact, getting answers is a plot point, like, where is Luke, and what happened to him? These questions are important.

>Fury Road
Very poor comparison, not even the creator cares about how Max got from Thunderdome to Fury Road.

>>44537539
Fury Road only gives you enough information needed to understand what is going on, everything else is incidental and usually given visual hints for the audience to infer. It also made sure that anything required got an explanation. Max knows how to work on cars because it's inferred to be a required skill due to him wandering the Wasteland alone in his car, Nux explains that all the Warboys are trained to fix cars as a requirement of their job to explain why he's a good mechanic, Furiosa, on the other hand, doesn't know as much about engines and it can be inferred that she picked up her knowledge from working with the Warboys, the Brides don't know shit about engines because why would you teach auto repair to your harem?

>>44537619
Those questions could not be less important to the story being told, which is being told in the single most Star Wars way: peons get sucked into a larger conflict and become heroes. TFA stars Finn and Han for most of the movie, and Rey - the new Jedi - is supporting the main cast's story. The entire point of ANH is Flash Gordan told from the perspective of what would be minor characters; which is how the droids are so famous now.

Fury Road does the same thing. All you need to know is what Max knows, and the visuals are meaningful without any exposition.

>>44537713
It's all in TFA too though.

Am I the only person in the world who really did not like Chewie's bowcaster shooting red lasers instead of green ones?

>>44537818
I didn't even notice.

>>44531561
>What was from Return?
Han Solo must destroy the shields with bombs before the new death star can be blowned up ed.

>>44537787
>Those questions could not be less important to the story being told
There were three movies. Then there were three more movies that set up the backstory for the previous three movies. And in the next three movies, you think they shouldn't explain anything about the new backstory? Why?

>>44537808
Except, assuming we're talking about Rey's piloting and Jedi skills, they're not explained. Rey offers an explanation of how she knows to repair the Falcon, not fly it, and the scenes from the lightsaber imply a history with Luke's failed Jedi Academy but also show her getting dropped off on Jakku as a really little kid.

>>44537539
fury road did it
TFA did not

>TFA stars Finn and Han for most of the movie, and Rey - the new Jedi - is supporting the main cast's story
Wait hold on, did you even watch it? She was arguably the most prominent character. Han and Finn are completely out of the picture by the end of it, too.

>>44531928

I thought he was basically this close to passing out, and he was trying to stay awake so he could kill them more.

>>44535309
You know Poe was originally meant to die on Jakku? But Abrams liked the character so much he decided to have him survive. Supposedly we will see more of him in later films

>>44537593
Oh, the vagueness of getting fucking shot in the gut? Indeed, how mysterious.

>>44536155

There's one line I can remember from the movie, towards the end

>It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

First off, the movie never establishes what a T-16 is. We see Luke driving one vehicle, a hover-car. The audience has no idea what a T-16 is, and it could very well be a hover-car. A 2 meter long rat isn't exactly a small target either, so saying that Luke is a great pilot based off that is a long stretch.

We do see Luke playing around with a model fighter, but that just means he wants to be a pilot. He also says he wants to go to the "Academy" but as far as I can remember, it's never stated what that Academy is.

In other words, we get virtually exactly the same amount of information about Luke and Rey being good pilots, especially when we consider that Luke's T-16 comment only happens just before the attack on the Death Star. At the start of the movie all we know is that both characters fly speeders.

>>44536147
>>turn off the engines in midair
>>turn them back on before you hit the ground
>>on purpose to pull off a maneuver to aim a now-stationary turret YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE AND HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT'S POINTED at a moving target
>>not to mention flying through the Star Destroyer and not once scraping the insides
>That's some damn good flying.

Anakin does a trick just as difficult in Episode 1. Force users can do crazy shit untrained. This is very well established.

>>44529803
>the spirit of Palpatine, who wants to take Ben’s body for his own

oh great a snowflake setting with the tweest being the Arthas thing, complete with the host being torn between dark and light

>>44537593
>since they could have focused on it and had it be a more clear wound

Not sure why this flew over some people's heads, while I was watching I IMMEDIATELY recognized that they were giving Ren a giant pile of handicaps towards the end to make him a fair boss fight for Rey.

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>>44533829
>I imagine (and what I want for) the next film will chiefly revolve around defeating the Knights of Ren (Kylo's buddies from the flashback) along with revealing just who the fuck Snoke is, then IX will be about killing him and dealing with Kylo himself.
>Hates solid 7/10 for being a clone of a solid 9.5/10 classic, and wants the next one to focus on whiny 14-year-old angst-lord's fall and his x-men buddies.
We already had one that was all new, and focused on exposition on the fall of a whiny angst-lord. I don't like movies like that; they're like sand, they're rough, and coarse, and get everywhere.

>>44540735
>so saying that Luke is a great pilot based off that is a long stretch.

Given the context of the situation and Luke's confidence, it would be entirely reasonable to assume that Luke has some idea of what he's doing.
Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kgl9gmtvZo

>>44537292
>Dooku tried to reason with the jedi and even told them they're being played for saps
"NO U SITH U EVIL WE NOT LISTEN"
"whoops Dooku was right, oh well we're all dead"

Moral absolutism my ass. Not to mention the Jedi Council was morally grey on a greyer grey, just not power wise. Its hard to get greyer than the prequels.

Similarly, Dooku left the jedi order because they forbade him from researching both sides of the force, so he's another good example of the balanced force user approach.

Also Snoke definitely seems to be more interested in a balanced perspective on the force than just being a pure dark sider, and seems to have even selected Ren because of his affinity for both halves of the force.

We really only have 2 pure evil movie dark siders (Maul and Sheev).

>>44537203
You shouldn't be able to strip the Force from living beings.

NJO was shit. And KOTOR2 was shit for introducing it.

>>44534582
He kills Han because he was ordered to by Snoke in order to further his connection to the dark side.

>>44541841
KotOR2 actually wasn't the one that introduced it, it happened in Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi, both from the early 90s.

>>44541841
lol, shown up
>>44542152

>>44537366

I honestly think that sounds fine while any of those by themselves (or even in groups of two or three) would've been utterly bland.

>>44542152
I stand corrected, but I still think it's fucking retarded to be able to sever people from a universal life force.

>>44542288
Yeah, it's pretty dumb no matter how you cut it.

I mean, for DE at least it was done so they could cut the reborn Palpatine off from his source of power (said series also had Jedi Force ghosts literally drag Palpatine's spirit to not!hell and hold him there to finally finish him off, so severing his ability to use the Force is about the least retarded part of the story).

It's been a while since I read TotJ so I couldn't tell you exactly what the circumstances were there. One of the Qel-Droma siblings went dark, they cut him off, and he wandered for a bit trying to redeem himself, but that's just what I remember off the top of my head.

>>44533502
You really only need to have seen episodes 5 and 6 to understand, saw it with someone in this camp and they followed it fine.

>>44535122

You're an idiot. Lucas had the basic ideas, he just needs someone holding his hand when it comes to editing and storytelling.

JJ Abrams can make competent action movies but he doesn't have a single original idea in his head, and every plot element is a straight up rehash of prior movies.

>>44545085
nah, there's an original idea in there. unfortunately, JJ's "rehash as hard as possible" instincts buried it.

the whole movie is about people trapped by their pasts. Luke Skywalker is missing and everyone is totally convinced that he is the secret key to everything; find Luke and all your problems are solved, because after all, he solved all the problems last time, right?

Kylo Ren and the First Order are Empire cosplayers, people mining what was good about the old movi- EMPIRE, EMPIRE, we mean empire, for literally everything. but they are not the Empire. what the empire did for reasons, they do because the Empire did, and so all their shit is not-quite-right.

our story begins when a Stormtrooper realizes that his past does not have to define him and goes rogue.

and finds someone else who salvages the glories of the past to earn her daily bread, who grudgingly accepts this interruption in her routine because she thinks it's the right thing to do.

Han is trapped by his past. Leia by hers. Luke by his.

The climax of the movie is Rey letting go of her past, of the need to go back to her dusty little hovel and scavenge a living out of the wreckage of past glories, and accepting that she can be just as much a hero as the people in the old stories.

It's really well done! There's a legit commentary on how nerds are way too reliant on What Was Cool When They Were Twelve there! But the awkwardness of Starkiller Base looms large over the whole theme.

Maaaaybe should have taken your own advice when it came to that one, JJ.

Was I the only one who was disappointed that the only established Star Wars races we saw were a single Wookie, Mon Calamari, and Sullustan (besides humans of course)? I understand that adding new aliens is par for course and that constantly reusing the same races over and over can get boring, but it felt weird not seeing the occasional familiar race even in locations where you'd expect to see a variety of different aliens. It made it feel detached from the established canon somewhat (which might of been the point I'll concede).

>>44545474
>It's really well done! There's a legit commentary on how nerds are way too reliant on What Was Cool When They Were Twelve there!

Go to fucking bed, JJ.

>>44546298
Yes. As noted by some other anons, the movie tries to be original in some areas, but is a complete rehash in others. It's all very strange, and only served to hurt the movie.

>>44546298
Are you high? There were aliens thrown in that looked outlandish in the NOTMOSEISLEY and NOTACANYINAONENDOR. It's just that the rest of the movie was empty of them.

>>44542333

For TotJ, it wasn't that Ulic was cut off from the force, it was that his ability to use it was severed.

>>44537818
I didn't like Han apparently never once using the bowcaster in 30+ years of them working together.
All they'd had to do was insert one of the following two lines and it wouldn't be retarded.
>A lot better than your old one!
>Damn, why haven't I used this before?

>>44540735
Anakin also establishes that he knows how to operate a pod-racer, and built his own from scratch. He'd never won a race before, but that doesn't really tell us anything - for all we know, the races are all fixed and his skill made sure he got 2nd every time. Everyone seems to assume he always came in last.
Also, Anakin's use of the Force was limited to decreased reaction time as a result of instinctive clairvoyance. He didn't magically know how to drive, he could just see where all the turns where a few moments ahead of time. That's why he never gets caught up in the wake of another racer's demise. That trick with the ramp wasn't him lifting the podracer with the Force or making it go faster, he just took a gamble and it paid off.

>>44545474
>our story begins when a Stormtrooper realizes that his past does not have to define him and goes rogue.
>his past
What past? Being a janitor?

>>44545474
>It's really well done! There's a legit commentary on how nerds are way too reliant on What Was Cool When They Were Twelve there! But the awkwardness of Starkiller Base looms large over the whole theme.
It's not a legit commentary if the work suffers from the same flaws.

>>44546298
The problem is that they're familiar to you (guy who reads SW novels/plays SW games/reads SW comic books).
They are not familiar to the general audience (people who don't do any of those things).

>>44549331
oh, I'll totally grant that JJ is trying to have his cake and eat it too. he tried to thread the needle and ultimately did not succeed.

if I was called on to fix it, I'd actually rip off Darksaber, of all the things. make it so that the thing doesn't work properly. catastrophic failure on the first firing. does an awful lot of damage to the Republic's capitol, but does as much if not more damage to the base itself.

and then Hux says fuck it, fire again, we're killing the Resistance too, while someone, probably Phasma if I'm setting her up for more later, calls this out as insanity

rest of the movie plays out as before