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>>43639717

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>>43639717
>be gamer
>happily browsing /tg/
>suddenly OP shows up
>with all his shitposting
>feel forced to mock this faggot
>all the new trolls are embarrassingly poor
>complaining about 40k on the 40k board
>it's all excuse me sir
>tumblr-tier meming
>our s/n ratio is suffering

>>43639717
This picture is pretty chaotic

>>43639717
The funny thing is in the Novella Wolf King Russ explicitly states that he gives zero fucks about Fenrisian culture and it is all just an act to get them to accept him as an outsider. He thinks the whole thing is stupid and that their culture often makes them act like morons

>>43639749
>>43640487
This board isn't for the likes of you

>>>r/fur

a bit unrelated, but i read on a couple sites that Fenris has a dark-skinned mercantile people living in the south, is this true? Or is it bullshit?

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>>43639717
>be XIX Legion Terran Veteran
>happily oppressing non-compliants in the name of the Emperor like the plebs they
>suddenly this long-haired emo faggot shows up with all his raven and "muh freedom" shit
>be forced to travel outside the galaxy until I'm allowed to come back
>gets complained to because "muh misogyny"
>it's all raven raven raven and everyone starts accusing me of being a Night Lord
>life is sharks

Just never talk to them again, OP. That seems to work. The ol' silent treatment.

I just want to say that Russ and Magnus have a massive amount of unresolved sexual tension between them

>>43645695
Do you have any idea what you've done?

>2015
>People not understanding the fact that Belief in Fenris anchors the Minds of the Storm priests and stops them from being straight up sorcerors looking right into the warp for power.

But here come the Thousand Son faggots not understanding how their entire shit was stupid and wrong.

>>43643882
lolwut? Fenris is like 80% Water, 15% Ice and 5% Volcanos.

Where the hell would Dark Skinned Mechant people come from.

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>>43639717
>>43643932
>Be XIIth Legion Officer
>Kick ass alongside Legions throughout the Great Crusade
>Always show them up in melee
>Watch as the other Legions find their fathers
>One day, get the vox
>Angron's been found
>Aw shit yeah, this guy is going to be badass, can't wait
>Almost as exciting as battle
>Finally get to see him with my Battle Brothers
>The autistic fucker kills me

Like you guys have a right to complain..

>>43645838
Wait THAT'S how it works... my hatred for the space wolves has SLIGHTLY diminished

>be VIIIth Legion Astartes
>happily spreading terror across the galaxy with based legion
>suddenly this Batman fucker shows up with all his Batman shit
>forced to bring justice to criminals
>all the new recruits are Batman fanboys
>get complained to because my name is not Batman enough
>it's all Batman Batman Batman
>life is Batman

>>43646015
People always forget it was the planet of SORCERERS.

And Sorcerers are Psykers who just straight up use warp power.

Storm priests earth themselves with the belief of Fenris somewhat, like something to think about while doing it.

When people say the Thousand sons were "Did nothing wrong" it's about as stupid as possible. They were doing tons wrong. They KNEW Sorcery was bad shit.

>>43645838
>be XVth Legion Sorcerer
>happily studying sorcery under based Magnus
>suddenly this warmaster fucker turns against the Emperor
>Swagnus tries to warn Emperor
>Emperor is pissed because "muh forbidden sorcery" or some bullshit
>forced to fall to Tzeentch
>now I'm a rubric
>life is suffering

>>43639717
Can you at least solve yourself?

>>43646120
You forgot to say wolf every other sentence.

>>43646120
Leman please Go.

>>43645897
This desu

>>43645897
Angron isn't autistic, he's retarded on account of nails

>>43645897
>>43646500
Angron was a lost cause, he would have been better off being mercy killed by his enemies in his failed rebellion. honestly the War Hounds would have been better off without him, we'd have had a Sane Kharn running the show and able to help the imperium,

>>43646192
>life is suffering
>not All Is Dust
>do you even rubric?

>>43646884
Do we know anything of Kharn before the nails?

>>43646884
All the emperor had to do was send the warhounds down to support angron.

Daily reminder he let corvus do what needed top be done on his own.

>>43648006

The Emperor talked to Corvus for three days and it worked out.

The Emperor tried to talk to Angron and he started sperging.

>>43648252
The planet was being brought into compliance anyways, nothing was stopping him from deploying the war hounds.

>be IVth Legion
>happily fighting alongside the Imperial Army
>Not caring about the lack of honours, only that we're doing a good job
>Suddenly get the news that our Primarch's been found
>Aw shit yeah, we finally have our leader
>Finally get to see him with my Battle Brothers
>He thinks we're weak
>He orders the Legion Decimated
>My name is drawn
>Nine of my brothers kill me because this autistic bastard wants the best Legion

>>43648252
BUTCHER'S NAILS, NOT EVEN ONCE

>>43648252
Well, Angron DID have wires in his brain that kinda drowned everything else out aside from the urge to slaughter everything forever.

Conversation with him would have been difficult at best.

>>43648270

Except for the fact that he was trying to measure his son. He didn't just fly around sending out massive amounts of marines like a Protoss Carrier every time he found a primarch.

>>43645897
Came here to post this, and im glad someone beat me to it

>Be XVII Legion
>Killing shit because it had to be done
>Not giving a damn about anything except that these assholes start listening to the big E
>This bald asshole shows up with creepy old men who probably RP as his dads
>Start crusading to convert people to believing in the Big E
>Get a village burned to the ground and spat on by some blue fucks
>"M-MUH RELIGION"
>Forced to go to war for asinine religion because old men said so
>Now I'm a Dark Apostle
>Life is old men.

>>43647866

Yes

>>43648698
So what do we know of his personality and behaviour before the nails?

>may or may not be XXth Legion Astartes
>who knows what the fuck I'm doing
>one day our primarch was found, or he wasn't, who knows
>things I don't understand happen
>life is confusing

>>43648800
Think Jean-Luc Picard as an Astarte.

>>43648868

Kharn is Janeway.

>>43648864
>I am Alpharius

>>43648800
He was pretty much just a regular Astartes, just more skilled than his comrades, generally. Tougher, faster, stronger, etc.

And smarter too, oddly enough.

If Kharn had stayed loyalist, he'd have been a good counter-commander for Abaddon.

I'm not smart enough to write a plausible fanfic for it, but Traitor Abbadabbadoo versus Loyal RIP AND TEAR feels like a fun chronicle to read.

>>43648876
After the Nails, yeah.

>>43648882
The life and adventures of that great guy Kharn?

>>43648868
>>43648876
>>43648882
It makes for an interesting picture: The Emperor arrives too late, the final assault against Angron and his forces has been launched. Angron dies last, surrounded by the gladiators who followed him, in vain but free.

Kharn and the other captains teleported without authorisation, they witness the death of their gene father at, some would say, his best.

In the aftermath, Kharn bullies the War Hounds into order, a mix of heavy handed control and humane treatment. Nuceria is razed to the ground on his order, something he privately regrets deeply.

Thereafter, the War Hounds fight for humanity first, The Emperor second. They follow the example of their Primarch in that they fight for the underdog first and foremost, but with unparralled ferocity.

>>43649043
If you're using /tg/ memes to write the fanfic, then yeah, pretty much.

He's a bit different than canon Kharn, I'd bet.

>>43649069
This sounds like the start of something interesting

>>43639717
>Be XIII legion astartes.
>happily conquering Terra and Galaxy with Emps
>legion got wrecked by xenos
>suddenly this roman dude shows up
>smashes those xenos with his tactical genius
>turns out that our legion now based on paradise mini empire
>we will live peacefully and build Galaxy of love and understanding
>oh hi Word Bearers, why you painted your armor red?

>>43649069
Seems legit.

>>43649152
>>43649395

There are a few questions though.

Should they interact with Angron in the instants before his death?
Should his traumatic death impact the Legion (much like Sanguinius')?
Would the Emperor even allow a Legion without a Primarch?
Should the name remain War Hounds?
Doctrine of conquered worlds? Social Darwinism is out, so strong convictions in Justice? Perhaps War Hounds strongholds on those worlds, as in independant balancing of force - they do no enforce direct control on the planet, but neither do they stand for oppression.

The contest was already a thing before Angron, so it could be changed into something different, a bit unhinged in design. No longer is it to kill enemies and take their skull, but rather to die surrounded by the corpses of the tormentors.

The skulls of the justly fallen being enshrined in a Mausoleum. Kharn knows all of them by name, and by deed.

In the spirit of Picard!Kharn, a fierce believer of the Emperor not being a God, and most importantly faillible. Also, a strong belief in the good mankind can do.

They are stretched thin between the liberation of planets - preferably those under dictatorship - and the recontruction of those worlds they already liberated.

Strong ties with the Dark Angels, the White Scars?
Adverse relationship with the Night Lords?
Working relationship with the Raven Guard?

>>43649557
Interacting with Angron is a no, for this concept. They need to see him at his best, and remember him as an idea/ideal, not a man. He serves better as a narrative tool.

His death wouldn't impact his Legion as deeply as Sanguinius, he didn't have that strange gene-bond with them. I think mentally though, they'd always feel "off" to the other Legions, because they would have to learn things themselves, and grow up without a father, basically. They'd be uncertain of the place in the Galaxy, and might feel like second-class Marines, but they'd also be very resilient because they'd have to forge their own traditions, methods, and ideals. Anything they decided for themselves, they'd hold to very strongly against all opposition, "just like Angron".

Name could stay the same. Probably would.

Doctrine for conquered worlds would likely be more along the lines of "Allied Sub-units" than the Emperor would like. Any planets conquered by the War Hounds would likely feel themselves more as equal but smaller parts of a federation, than as subservient parts of an empire. This would likely lead to trouble later.

Best case scenario, these planets are like the Wolves, wild and untameable, but loyal as fuck and highly useful.

The real question is what would the Emperor do for a Legion with no Primarch. There is no canon to make decisions with here. Even the Lost Legions went down as a whole. However, for the purposes of telling a story, I would say that the Emperor more or less exiles the War Hounds to the fringes of the Crusade. Both because their Primarch is dead, and because Kharn disobeyed orders by going to the planet. Hell, he might not even bear to be in their presence, since it reminds him of the *one* son he actually lost, rather than having to execute.

The War Hounds wouldn't tolerate being rolled into another Legion very well. Even if the other Primarchs and the Emperor could treat them fairly, the other Marines would probably look down on or pity them.

>>43649557
>>43649772
I'm digging this so far, it really fits with the traditions and styles of the XII Legion.

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>>43645838
>>43646015
>m41
>not anchoring the minds of your sorceror's minds with the hatred of furfaggotry

>>43649043
Kharn is a great guy no matter what

>>43649069
>>43649557
I can't help but feel like they'd be best bros with the Lamenters if they experienced something like this. I could see alternatively to changing the established fluff a small contingent of warhounds that were somehow separated from the rest of the legion. 10,000 years later after the heresy shitstorm has blown over they've been rediscovered and having avoided their brains being nailed, been integrated back into the modern astartes as their own chapter. Learning the story of their lost primarch and his eventual fate could create an interesting dynamic where they're still bloodthirsty, but always have that creeping fear that they'll end up the same way as their primarch.

>>43649772
Yeah, I thought as much, far as interaction with Angron is concerned. Too clichéd. Also, their perception bias is useful, indeed.

Federated worlds works well, you're right. Fits Kharn as Picard too. Not too big on the Imperial Truth.

On the other hand, highly skilled PDF and Guardsmen. I suppose many a Commissar would suffer an accident.

I kinda have that picture of Lamenters mixed with Black Templars. Fighting to the last, mankind first. But crusadind the galaxy, passing from time to time to the liberated worlds as a way to remind themselves of the reason why they pay the price they pay.

In keeping with the Abbadabbadoo polar opposite idea, should Kharn survive to M41 (as a dreadnought) or be remembered as the first Commander? I'm sorta leaning towards Dread!Kharn, but it sound a tad too much like Bjorn. Though the breacher Dreads imply there are actually more than a few 10,000 years old marines around. Plus, Borg!Kharn

Naturally, such a big change has wide repercussions. The War Hounds would not take well to the Codex, particularly since they would be working blind and alone for a good while. Plus the way the other Legions already look at them, that could lead to tension, accusation of heresy and schisms.

Of course, they could go for a nominally fragmented structure with each chapter a part of the whole like the Dark Angels.

At the core, Kharn directs them from his own subdivision of the Legion. Which fits also well with the fringe Legion theme. They must be capable of working alone, but have strong ties between themselves, since they are left to their own devices by the rest of the Astartes.

The chapters could have ties to one liberated world, in practice their recruitment world.

Crusher!Lotara? not a serious suggestion.

>>43650047
"Loyalists that would have been Traitors but got lost", while entirely possible, is also extremely overused in fanfic.

>>43650080
Of course Kharn is a Dreadnaught.

In many universes, he's a Loyalist.

In none of them does he ever quit fighting.

No sleep, no mercy, no retreat, no surrender.

Kharn Fights.

>>43650141
With the new Leviathan Pattern Dread, that fits even better.

Also, Primarch sized Kharn. Who takes no shit and does not care for your squabbling.

>>43639717
>Be I Legion Astartes
>Original And Best, Motherfucker
>Conquer Terra and Anything Else Emprah Says Cos We're The Best There Is
>Veterans of Veterans
>Find this massively closeted Arthur wannabe on a backward-ass Chaos-tainted world
>Emprah says he's our Dad
>THIS AIN'T OUR DAD, THIS IS A THINLY-VEILED METAPHOR FOR HOMOSEXUALITY
>throwitontheground.jpg
>Split up in every direction
>Everyone thinks everyone else has gone traitor
>Spend rest of eternity acting like creepy Space Masons
>Life is a thinly veiled homosexuality metaphor

>>43650221
Sounds perfect.

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>>43645838
>People not understanding the fact that Belief in Fenris anchors the Minds of the Storm priests and stops them from being straight up sorcerers looking right into the warp for power.

>>43642963
>in the Novella

Which novella?

>>43650080
warhounds would operate under their own rules and equipment, enough to get their own codex ala Dark angels, Space wolves and blood angels

So to recap.
30k War Hounds are alone. For insubordination, and because they remind the Emperor of his failure, they must crusade outside the main course of the Crusade. Because Angron fought to the last for a just cause, so will they.
>If there is nothing beneath the stars but what we do, then brothers I say: Let us do good.
Kharn, captain of the eighth Company, leads his brothers with steel hand and a strong heart towards that goal. The razing of Nuceria was a mistake that must not be repeated.
They fight for Mankind first. The Emperor proved he was failible, so they must do what he could not. Every world they free must be free of all tyrants. The Imperium gave them the necessary push towards a greater path. They must continue to build towards that ideal. Terra is no more than a distant world, but they are united for the good of Mankind.
Naturally, that behaviour does not please, and their orphan status sets them apart. Some Legions are rather vocal against the War Hounds, but they pay them no heed.
Some Legions see their fight as just, but pity their fatherless status. The War Hounds have no time for words, just actions.
When making contact, the War Hounds speak softly. But the stick is big, and they're not afraid to use it. Slavery is not tolerated, and Dark Eldars are given no quarters.
Alpharius and Guilliman both express interest. Alpharius finds value in those who act independantly, but Kharn does not like his games. Omegon is much preferred.
Guilliman provides counsel and does not judge. Kharn takes it, but Ultramar is not really something he looks up to. Help in setting up a proper infrastructure for the War Hounds is appreciated, however. This allows for relative self sustainment and for the War Hounds to do their own thing.

>>43646285
Magnus please.

>>43648006
The nails can turn people into khornites, they were probably long gone, or batshit crazy, let's not forget that everyone with angron was a gladiator with nails stuck on their heads.

>>43650642

So what happens when the Heresy rolls around?

>>43650675
the hounds could go either way, they clearly are not big on the "Imperial Truth" and see the Emperor as fallible, the right prodding and manipulation could lead them to see the Emperor as they kind of Tyrant they fight against, either duping them to Chaos in new was or causing them to go renigade, however, Pikharn might have something to say against crazy energy beings that call themselves gods and are clearly more evil then anything else, and might be able to rally the Hounds to fight against them, or the Hounds could be split apart

Also Wolf and Hound makes me imagine them having buddy cop moments with the space yiffs

>>43650642
Vulcan lords this "people first" approach. Send Weapons, supplies, other on the downlow to help them out. His generosity is not rebuked.
Erebus sends disciples to set up lodges. Get the reply of "We are ONE brotherhood"

>>43650642
>>43650717
>>43650719
Bro's with the white Scar's?

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>>43648882
>Kharn the loyal who stood up against the darkness when everyone around him betrayed the Emperor.

This is what dreams are made of.

The novel i mentioned, Wolf King. Russ hates all the wolf crap and Fenrisian culture in general, he thinks it is a liability. He wanted to abandon them and leave with the Emperor but stayed because the Emperor wanted him to. Everything he does is a caricature of Fenrisian culture so they will accept him, he thinks they are idiots but is stuck with them.

He hates his legion almost as much as Curze does, he is just not an asshole about it.

>>43639717
>be X Legion astartes
>happily conquering the galaxy with based Emps and my Stormwalkers.
>suddenly this IRON HANDED faggot shows up.
>be forced to cut off my hand in honor of iron hands' iron hands.
>all the new recruits are iron handed with iron hands in iron hands' iron hands.
>get complained to because my hands aren't IRON enough
>it's all Iron hands iron hands with iron hands' Iron Hands.
>life is suffering

>>43650733
Heh. Alternate alternate history.

Kharn, who stood against his ENTIRE LEGION when they fell, and turned away from their path. Who chose the path of true strength, rather than suckle from Khorne's teat like a mewling whelp.

Kharn.

The Betrayer... of the World Eaters.

>>43648864
>>43648879
And or Omegnon.

>>43650781
The Last Hound.

>Kharn of the Baskervilles, hunting Angron's ass down for all eternity, lolololol

>>43650717
>>43650719
>>43650732
40k War Hounds protect the fringe of the Galaxy, operating first from their Federated worlds. Their loyalty is never in question, but their methods are cause for arguments.

Paying lip service to the Codex Astartes, the War Hounds fragmented into Chapters. They remain equals and will largely deploy alongside each other in combined arms operations.
The most valuable worlds are strongholds and recruitment planets for the Chapters. In practice, those who are inducted may join a different Chapter, and will transfer from one to the next as their training progresses.

The veterans of the Chapters make up the actual War Hounds, who are perpetually crusading wherever the fighting is thickest.
Still lead by Kharn, long since interred in a Leviathan Patten Dreadnought hand waved to be of better quality than normal so as not to drive Kharn completely insane, the First Commander leads from the front whenever possible. Towering above his brothers, first among equals, he is sometimes paternalistic.

They strike hard, they strike fast, and they have no time for whiners like the Black Templars and their daddy issues.

Ten thousand years of fighting loyally, as well as the loss of many a Primarch, has endeared the Hounds to their cousins.
They maintain strong ties with the Salamanders for their equipement and their belief of the first place mankind holds.
They support and assist the White Scars in raids across the galaxy, for their belief in unorthodox fighting and fast attack.
While cordial, the relationship with the Ultramarines are strained by differences in belief regarding planetary governance. Still, War Hounds and Ultramarines agree to disagree, lending each other help as required.
The secretive nature of the Dark Angels puts them at odds with the brazen War Hounds. However, loyalty above all is a shared value.
The Rout and the War Hounds often compete in all matters, playful but sometimes bloody

Kharn joins the knights errant and later becomes the chapter master of the grey knights.

>>43650080
>>43650141
>>43650221
>Kharn
>Dreadnought

I have this vision of converting Bjorn the Fellhanded into a War Hound dreadnought with a chainfist for one hand and the universes most terrifying apothecaries gauntlet for the other.

>>43650080
"Abaddon. Your father died for his treachery, and it broke you, because he was weak. My father died for his dreams, and it made my brothers and I unbreakable, because he was strong. You cling to Horus' memory, and wallow in a failure 10,000 years old. We left Angron behind, in the fulfillment of a destiny only he could follow."

"My father died, and in so doing set the Hounds free. It was not for us to die on Nuceria. Angron chose his own path. And Angron showed the Legion that we must choose ours. Other Legions follow the legacy of their Primarchs. We have *none*. No culture. No history. No words of wisdom or lessons of battle or acts of kindness. Angron left us with only the epilogue of his tale."

"And so the War Hounds have no shackles. The White Scars will always be bound to their bikes. The Raven Guard, forever striking from the shadows. The sons of Guilliman, eternally bound to their sense of honor and their father's Codex. But the War Hounds? All that we are, we earned ourselves. We mold ourselves by our own will, our own hands. There are no heights we cannot achieve."

"And from those heights, as we have 12 times before, and will do so as many times as it takes, we cast you and your 13th Black Crusade down into the darkness from whence it came."

"The Hounds will never forget your stench, traitor."

"And the Hounds never sleep."

>>43650839
>apothecary Dreadnought
forgewold just got its next idea.....

>>43650831
Kharn, the:

Watchdog
Guard Dog
Pit Bull
Blood Hound
Alpha

?????

>>43650995
Kharn the Unleashed?

>>43650995
Kharn the Father.

>>43650675
>>43651006
>>43650839
The heresy was the crucible for many Legions. For the War Hounds, it was the ultimate test of their loyalty.
When Erebus had made initial contact with them, his advances were refused. When he moved in person, he was forced to flee before the wrath of the Hounds.

When Horus the Arch traitor assaulted Terra, the Hounds were on his heels. Humanity would prevail, and the War Hounds would defend it to the last.

Slowed down by their remote position and Warp Storms, only a few Strike Cruisers reached Terra.

Kharn was not the first on the battlements of the Imperial Palace. But his ferocity knew no bounds. He was wherever the fighting was thickest, striking wherever the defenders required support.

It was there that he came closest to death. His body broken by the fight against waves upon waves of traitors, the apothecaries took what they believed to be another dead Father to their ships.

Kharn, however, was not dead. It was then that he was interred in the adamantium shell of a Leviathan Siege Dreadnought.

His right arm, a specialised apothecary tool, is for the War Hounds. The geneseed will not be lost, and the skulls of the honorable fallen will not be desecrated.
His left arm is for the traitors. This massive Siege Claw rends apart any who stand against Mankind.

>>43650956
The War Hounds have shown an uncanny capability to arrive wherever the Black Crusades strike the hardest.

And wherever Abaddon is, Kharn stands as a bulwark for Mankind. In the time of the Heresy, the War Hounds chased the Black Legion relentlessly. Though Abaddon and Kharn have rarely met directly, the former Sons of Horus are dogged without reprieve, without a moment of peace.

Where the Sons of Horus cast aside all links to their gene-father, the War Hounds are always proud of the legacy of Angron. The massive adamantium shape of Kharn the Father remains the cornerstone of that legacy, the shadow it casts not rejected but a warm mantle upon the shoulders of the Hounds. Under this shadow, they thrive and reach for higher heights.

Though he is called the Father of the Hounds, they are not his sons. He is the first amongst equals, the one who united them in their time of need. Where Abaddon is a tyrant using those who follow him like pawns, Kharn leads from the front those who will follow.

However, the Warmaster of Chaos is not the only one to earn the ire of the Father of the Hounds.

Many times, the Emperor's Children were denied by the Hounds. Though they are known to fight ferociously, their fury burns even brighter against the sons of Fulgrim. Time and again, the Hounds have broken the servants of Slaanesh.

And the Father of the Hounds takes special pleasure in denying Lucius. While no Apothecary, ten thousand years have give Kharn ample experience in leaving the Chosen of Slaanesh little more than a shell, bereft of feeling. Though he will no kill him, there are fates worse than death for those who seek pleasure in all things.

>>43651370
Sounds like a weird juxtaposition of NobleBright, non-nihilistic overtones combined with the usual fare of grimdark nihilism of the original setting.

I mean you're basically writing a pocket of noblebright into vanilla grimdark, which is weird.

>>43639717
>be II legion
>Dad fucks up
>emps tells him too fuck off
>now I'm a smurf
>why live?

>>43646192
>happily studying sorcery under based Magnus
>now I'm a rubric
IIRC only normie marrine become ribic

>>43649237
>oh hi Word Bearers, why you painted your armor red?
kek

>>43651563
I'd say the XIIth without Angron is very Noblebright. Paladins reaching to the extreme.
That being said, lets try something a little different.

For all their acts of loyalty, the War Hounds are not in good standing.

The Federated worlds stand under the protection of a First Founding Chapter, with a long legacy of honour, but also one of distrust. Self reliance is acceptable, but Ultramar is the sole authorized sovereign world. The bare acceptance of the Imperial Truth has lead to the Inquisition taking an especial interest in those systems, and all exchanges between them and the rest of the Imperium is heavily regimented.

Life under those circumstances is harsh. Though this fits the needs and philosophy of the Hounds quite well, providing strong initiates to the Chapters, recruitment is that much slower.

Combined with their war doctrine, this leads the Chapters to fight undermanned through no fault but their own. They may fight to prove themselves, but such methods have a cost.

This rejection of both the Codex Astartes and the Imperial Truth makes the Hounds a distrusted chapter for many of their more orthodox cousins.

At the same time, this independance of doctrine has darker undertones. Ferocious fighting and a lack of faith beyond their Brotherhood has made the Hounds primary targets for Chaos. Though any insurrection is quelled with efficiency and quietly, the Hounds' record is not spotless.

Ten thousand years of tireless crusading have earned them a strong position. Still, the fragmentary nature of their organisation has lead to small groups going dark for extended periods of time. Of those, not all returned to the fold without difficulty.

The War Hounds are not expected to fall. It is seen as a foregone conclusion. Better to weaken them before they fall.

The Blood God will not be denied. And there are more ways to corrupt than outright calls for Bloodshed. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

>Be XI Legion
>...I forgot what I was going to say.

>>43651563

It's mentioned in the actual fluff that the Pre-Primarch War Hounds were a pretty fractious lot and willing to make any sacrifice for victory and did not treat fools lightly, which would carry over if they never became the World Eaters. I find a fair bit of this writing fails to grasp all that the War Hounds were.

During these times the War Hounds developed a reputation for victory, although at a cost-and it was said every assault they conducted ended in only one of two ways: victorious slaughter or simple slaughter, either of which left the foe in no condition to resist further. However effective there were many who fought alongside them who found them also to be unpredictable, intemperate and dangerous to anything that stood in their path, combatant or otherwise. Rumours began to circulate that they had put to the sword human auxiliary regiments they saw as failing them
in battle, and they kept a guarded distance from other Legiones Astartes they served alongside. Outsiders noted that an unusually harsh code of discipline was enforced in the ranks by the Legion's officers and was indeed needed, as the War Hounds themselves could prove fractious, and bloodshed between brothers was far from uncommon.

Betrayal, p86

>>43651857

As the War Hounds, the XIIth Legion was known for its harsh enforcement of internal discipline and the hot-blooded temper of its Legionaries. Command within the Legion was gained through a mixture of martial prowess on the bartlefield and displays of leadership on the front line, with specialists singled out by aptitude early on. No rank or role within the Legion was exempt from the expectation that they would fight as hard as the rest however, nor was the desire to grapple with a foe and cut them down by blade-stroke discouraged if the opportunity arose, be the Space Marine in question an Apothecary or Artillerist rather than a line fighter. Compared to many other Legions, order and discipline did not come as naturally to those of this gene-seed as might be expected-tempers seethed, slights perceived or real were met with anger and more often than not violence should their sense of honour be impugned. Any officer of the Legion knew they were expected to back up their commands by force if needed, and punish infractors by their own hands as was the Legion's way to disobey an order in battle was a death sentence to be carried our without delay. To the XlIth Legion life itself was war-a conflict that never ended from cradle to grave and the Legiones Astartes was this concept given its purest form. Failure in battle was not tolerated, surrender was never countenanced and mercy was a quick death delivered to a foe that had fought with bravery-cowards deserved no more than savage butchery in reward of their fear. This simple but resolutely brutal code of war was the Legion's article of faith and they extended it to both their own number and their enemy.

>>43651857
>>43651882
This certainly needs work, though I should say the loss of their Primarch could have long lasting effects, even as far as their doctrine goes.

Naturally, this is far more Noblebright than it could be. On the other hand, this bit you quoted would lead to self destruction, Minotaurs/Black Templars or World Eaters with or without Angron. Which is the point of course, but the beginning of that little writefaggotry was to create a Kharn opposite Abaddon in M41.

In the spirit of that, I surely did go a little too far towards special snowflake. Too much Picard, not enough Kharn.

With that said I gotta bail. But you are welcome to provide more criticism or corrections as you see fit. The subject matter is interesting, if only as a thought exercise

>>43651939

Taking what's already written, the War Hounds as a Chapter would be highly distrusted, because of their bloodthirsty attitude, and their habit of punishing allies who don't fight hard enough. Imperial Guard would certainly not rejoice of the War Hounds came to their aid (Though I see them getting along well with the Death Korps) and most others would fear the collateral damage they'd cause. Of all the First Founding they'd probably be the ones the Inquisition keeps a closest eye on.

I now imagine the War Hounds being the Legion sent to aid the Steel Legion on Armageddon (Against Doombreed or a similar Khorne Daemon Prince). They'd decimate any Imperial Guard who failed them, but they'd also defend those who proved themselves in battle against the Inquisition in the aftermath.

>>43639717
>>43643932
IS it possible that something similar happened to the Space Wolves?

The old Terran Marines weren't fucked up by Russ and his twisted mutant genes so they weren't bound to recruiting from Fenris. Obviously, they were recruited from Terra.

So is it possible that the old veterans were given their own ship and told to go fight shit elsewhere when they started to disagree with the Russ and the Furry Pride March Legion?

Because the idea of a bunch of proto-Space Wolves who have gone full Norse rather than full Yiff is pretty good.

>>43652018

We will have to wait for the SW's book to see.

Chances are good that the "pre-Russ" SW were different, since every other legion was too. Even the Ultramarines were extremely violent and savage until Guilliman reformed them.

Black Library's shit is killing the whole universe for me

>>43652164

What Black Library shit in particular?

>>43652194
Everything in the 30k/Heresy series

>>43652203

Is the FW shit alright?

>>43652209
Not very familiar with it

>>43650750
>Russ hates all the wolf crap and Fenrisian culture in general
Even the breeding slaves?

>>43639717
Ok, now I'm wondering.
What were the Legions like before the Primarchs showed up and forced all their emotional baggage onto them?
Were they already wearing their Primarch's hat because 'fate'?
Did they have nameing themes?
Were they just one massive generic army?

>>43650750
Right, so he has absolutely no backbone, initiative or even enough self esteem to say 'no daddy, I'm not going to paint it grey' and rebrand his own personal army.
Man, every time I hear anything about the Space Puppies or their boss, they just sound more and more shit.

>>43652550
This.

At first they seemed fucking awesome to me. They were Vikings, IN FUCKING SPACE!. They had braided beards, feasts, alcohol, women, spaceships that looked like a cross between a longboat and a long hall, wizards, were-wolf elites and the most badass Primarch to ever rock across the stars.

Seriously, Russ was like a cross between Sabre-tooth and Wolverine but 120% more metal.

Then you read the HH and nope. He was a brown nosed Jock with daddy up to the balls in his ass and loving it. And the Space Wolves as editions go by are more and more furry pride than Viking.

>>43646015
That's a bunch of fanwank. Wolf Rune Priests are psykers just the same as any other legion's librarians. The Space Wolves are hypocritical, fratricidal morons.

>>43650990
>bust through wall
>"BROTHER, YOU HAVE SUSTAINED DAMAGE!"
>smash with fist
>"DOES THIS HURT?!"
>coughs up blood
>"INTERNAL BLEEDING DETECTED!"
>revving chainblade
>"PREPARING TO MAKE INCISION!"
>high impact, rapid insertion violence
>"LIVE, BROTHER! LIVE FOR THE EMPEROR!"
>smash with fist several times
>"CHANCE OF SURVIVAL: 0%!"
>"APPLYING THE EMPEROR'S BENEDICTION!"
>assault cannon whirls
>"REST IN PIECES, BROTHER!"
>BBRRRRRRTTT!!!

>>43652872
>>43650990
I'm actually imagining an apothecary Dreadnought as being an armour plated life support box with a shit load of mechadendrites.

It essentially looks sort of like the squid robots from The Matrix.

>>43652896
>box with tentacles

But that's forbidden medicine!

>>43640487
All I can think is that if a troll is so poor that people react badly, the objective of trolling has been accomplished.

>>43643882
I've never heard the mercantile part. That goes completely against the nature of Fenris, it's a death world like all the other Astartes planets. The rare southern populace are warriors as well.

>>43650080
>Of course, they could go for a nominally fragmented structure with each chapter a part of the whole like the Dark Angels.
>At the core, Kharn directs them from his own subdivision of the Legion. Which fits also well with the fringe Legion theme. They must be capable of working alone, but have strong ties between themselves, since they are left to their own devices by the rest of the Astartes.
Forced to divide by the pressures of the Codex-compliant Legions, they now exist as Chapters, but the Chapters have never forgotten and will never forget that they are part of the same Pack.

>>43650241
>THIS AIN'T OUR DAD, THIS IS A THINLY-VEILED METAPHOR FOR HOMOSEXUALITY
I kek'd.

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>>43649069
Kharn and any of the War Hounds that teleported down with him may not have interacted with Angron much, but they almost certainly would be able to work out quite quickly how unhinged he and his gladiators were, especially once apothecaries and techmarines work out what the deal with the Nails are. The decision to burn Nuceria might, in part, be to utterly eliminate the evidence. They can claim it was intended as a primarch sized funeral pyre, but it also means the secret of Angron's rage goes with him to the grave.

You've got the beginnings of an inner circle there, and a secret at the heart of the Legion. Being the only ones who fought alongside the Primarch, Kharn and the others have something they can translate into authority over the Legion. They may not even desire that kind of power, but the rest of the Hounds and even Angron's brother primarchs will want to know what happened. Perhaps its Angron's brothers that sanction the control of the Legion being handed to Kharn and the others with him - they alone were there with him, when a God died.

For their part, the War Hounds can talk about Angron's nobility and strength, of the courage he showed facing the armies of his enemies and the bonds of brotherhood he shared with his fellow gladiators. They won't mention his psychotic blood-lust, or his inability to tell friend from foe. They won't say that he was clearly broken, even before the war began. They especially won't say how, deep down, there is a small part of them that is glad that he died there and that they secretly fear that the same capacity for bestial, monstrous violence lurks within them.

>>43655595
>they secretly fear that the same capacity for bestial, monstrous violence lurks within them
Only themselves? Not, in their darkest moments, all Humanity?

>>43652225
>breading slaves
Stop making shit up.

>>43655678
That could potentially be where doctrinal differences for various post-heresy Chapters come from. Some of the War Hounds think they are uniquely violent, others that humanity is itself has a capacity for terrifying anger. What they do with that is also an issue. Some might try and control anger strictly, only releasing it at an appropriate time, others might admire how Angron's rage allowed him to fight to the last against impossible odds. The latter might even try and replicate his Nails, if you wanted loyalist berserkers

Its also potentially a way for some Hounds to fall to chaos as well.

>>43655725
>breading slaves
>hundreds of xeno and renegade human slaves captured to preserve the myriad bread-making techniques across the galaxy
>forced to make breads every day for the insatiable appetites of the astartes.
It's like TTGL met Yakitate! half-way.

>>43642963
>An act
>"I was only pretending to be retarded" the Primarch
>Even their own primarch thinks they are fucking idiots

>>43642963
That's actually kind of pathetic all by itself.

Guilliman raised up those around him from barbarism.

Russ jumped in the mud with the pigs.

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>>43639717
That's a weird picture to post OP.

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>>43652872
>ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN, PLEASE INDICATE YOUR CURRENT LEVEL OF REPENTANCE

>>43652509

Most of them were, though never to the same extreme. The War Hounds were close-combat specialists, but also experts in armoured warfare as well and didn't throw away everything for the sake of close combat. Every Legion was unique even before their Primarch was found.

>>43655725

Fenrisian culture does not have breading slaves but it does have breeding slaves. Prospero Burns mentioned that.

>Ascommani girls were famously fine-looking, and there were plenty of healthy girl-children too, who would make valuable breeding slaves in time

>>43656424
>close-combat specialists, but also experts in armoured warfare
Muh Storm Wardens can't be XII Legion... can they?!

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>>43655959
Nigga what? Macaragge was highly civilized.

>>43656958

Hand-to-hand combat was the XIIth Legion's preferred form of warfare, even before it took the Emperor-given name of the War Hounds for itself. This did not mean that the War Hounds lacked ability and competency in ranged engagements or armoured warfare and supporting artillery attack. Indeed, no lesser luminary in the arts of mechanised warfare than the Iron Hands' Primarch Ferrus Manus praised the War Hounds' armoured assault at Aldabaran Septus as the, "epitome of iron-clad rage given form," but for the War Hounds such things were a tactical means to an end. That end being successfully delivering the killing force of the Legion, its Space Marines, where they could inflict the most harm and come to grapple with their foe at close quarters. The War Hounds had a preponderance of close combat weaponry habitually carried by its rank-and-file. In addition to the use of the ubiquitous combat blades or gladius, even Legionaries attached to reconnaissance squads and vehicle crews commonly carried chainblades, flay-cutters and mono-serrated bayonets, back-up knives, hatchets and cleavers. In dedicated assault units this profusion of bloody killing tools was added to by a weapon that dated back to the techno-barbarian tribes of Terra, the broad-bladed Chainaxe.

>>43655595
>>43655821
This is actually really cool. Not many Space Marine chapters can say they're actually ashamed of their Primarch.

>>43652582
topped off with being a self righteous hypocrite who probably wouldn't have needed Horus changing the orders to go and slaughter the TS

>>43647630
>Dust is Life
>All is Suffering

>>43657243
His Legion wasn't. Guilliman took a barbaric legion an taught it civil conduct.

Russ took a civilised legion and added yiff

>>43650990
>>43652872
>>43652896
>I HAVE COME REHABILITATE YOU
>EVEN IN DEATH I GIVE STICKERS TO GOOD MARINES AFTER THEIR CHECKUPS

>>43652582
Russ isn't even the worst part of the HH stuff, although he's pretty bad.

The authors just took all the stuff about the Wolves that was fun - the feats, the booze, the bro-tier looking out for the little guy - and replaced it all with "wah-wah we're executioners" angst so that instead of gathering at the Fang's tables and telling tales of heroism with raucous good humor they now sit around in darkness (literally too dark for humans to see in) sipping their drinks and talking about fallen comrades.

And this isn't even the most pants-on-head retarded part, that's the fact that the 30k Wolves don't even write shit down, they entrust the skjalds to remember everything for their stories...so if one gets shot in the head, oops, there goes a major part of Wolf history. Even the modern Wolves aren't so fucking stupid that they don't keep hard-copy archives.

How is it that the HH completely changed the Wolves and yet managed to make them even more retarded than their 40k version?

>>43659174
Twin-Linked Lollipop Launchers

As much fun as envisioning Kharn as the leader of the loyalist War Hounds is. Wasn't Lhorke Legion Master at that time? Or was he already turned into a dreadnought by the time Angron was found?

Also how about Psykers, how would the legion treat their librarian brothers?

>>43659423
Who's Lhorke? One of the guys Angron killed?

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>>43659423
Pretty sure Lhorke was already a dreadnought at the time Angron was found, along with thirteen other somewhat crazy battle brothers. The Master at the time was Ibram Ghreer, and Angron killed him very shortly after taking control of the Legion. Your broader point is right though, there was a pre-existing Legion hierarchy, and Kharn was only the captain of the 8th assault company. I'm pretty sure Kharn only got the job of equerry because Angron minced all the other candidates, as well as anybody else who came too close.

That could tie into the inner circle idea - those who fought alongside Angron wouldn't necessarily have official rank, but would still be figures of awe and unofficial power in the Legion. It could also be the other way around though, and they could be viewed as pariahs - they disobeyed direct orders, potentially from the Emperor himself, and still failed to save their father. Perhaps they distracted him. Perhaps, some whispers suggest, they killed him.

Librarians would probably end up like they were in the other Legions. Without Angron and the Nails they aren't sidelined any more than they were already, but any telepaths among them are going to know exactly what went down on Nuceria. That could lead to the Librarians being folded into that little group almost by default - they not only know too much, but once Nikea happens they're going to be lumped in with the others who broke the Emperor's command.

>>43660233

I imagine the WE Librarians would be held in much higher esteem, based on how they described the War Hounds in Betrayer.

>>43655725

> breading slaves
> breading

Anthonius get the fuck out of here.

> captcha is bread identifying

JUST

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>>43656008

>>43659758

He was the first Legion Master of the War Hounds back on Terra at the very beginning, and he was 'killed' well before Angron came around, and turned into a Dreadnought.

>>43661241
>not breading your slaves

EAT THE BREADLOAF SLAVE

>>43650336
So you basically don't know how the Warp works.

Think of Fenris as a very primitive idea of a World Stone. Some Physically sensitive spot that can be used to focus their psykers on.

It's never actually explained like that because well, HH writing is fucking shit.

>>43650995
>>43651006
>>43651002

Houndmaster.

>>43650717
Considering the Shit that happened in the HH made the Space Wolves Paramount Humanitarians, I'd say so too.

>>43661917
He's the leader, but i don't think Kharn would call himself their Master. Kinda goes against that sense of independence we've come up with.

>>43661949
It's a name the Warhounds give to him.

He is the one who unleashes them to hunt the enemies of Man.

>>43661917
>>43661949
HeadHound?
I like it cause it sounds similar to Hellhound

>>43639717
Bjorn's thoughts.

>DON'T YOU PUT WOLF SHIT ON ME WHILE I SLEEP, FUCKERS

>>43661970
Argos would be perfect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argos_%28dog%29

A dog, left behind by its master, aged and worn, but with a mighty history behind him.


'This dog,' answered Eumaeus, 'belonged to him who has died in a far country. If he were what he was when Odysseus left for Troy, he would soon show you what he could do. There was not a wild beast in the forest that could get away from him when he was once on its tracks. But now he has fallen on evil times, for his master is dead and gone, and the women take no care of him. Servants never do their work when their master's hand is no longer over them, for Zeus takes half the goodness out of a man when he makes a slave of him.'

So saying he entered the well-built mansion, and made straight for the riotous pretenders in the hall. But Argos passed into the darkness of death, now that he had fulfilled his destiny of faith and seen his master once more after twenty years.


Kinda sets Kharn up for the End Times, when hypothetically all the Primarchs return. Old, war-battered, entombed in a Dreadnought for fuck knows how long. Surrounded by the dying and the traitors and the hopeless. The slaves of dark gods and the slaves of the Imperium.

Even the master he thought long dead might return, though. Beyond all hope. Beyond all possibility. Just maybe, the Hounds' true lord might return to Kharn, the noble Argosian, best Hound of the Pack.

>>43662149
And then, perhaps Kharn could die at last. But not until that day when Angron returns, clad in mists and shadows, to reclaim what's his by birthright and denied to him so long ago.

>>43662149
Noice

>>43639717
From the thumbnail he looks like he has a duck for a head

>>43662149
If Kharn actually knew what Angron was like, you can imagine him getting just as fed up with the titles and the chapter legends as Bjorn is with the Wolf-wolf shit they keep bolting onto him. They could end up having grumpy old man moans if they ever encounter one another.

>>43662683
Seems legit.

Kinda like what this guy >>43650717
said.

>>43662683

The Wolf and the Hound. Both old beyond belief, who saw a time of legends. Both thought of as toothless, mangy, old relics. But when they are woken to battle, it is as though the clock was wound back, to a time when legends were made.

>>43646120
>And Sorcerers are Psykers who just straight up use warp power.
Like EVERY psyker ever! That is the very definition of psyker

>>43663076
The guy you're replying to is retarded.

Sorcerors make pacts with Daemons and other Warp entities to gain Warp Powers. Not all Sorcerors are even Psykers.

But, Psykers are their OWN source of power. They don't HAVE to be beholden to the Gods or whatever. This is why the Librarians can exist, since as long as they stay on the up and up, they're not serving Chaos.

Psykers Produce, Sorcerors Steal.

>>43662683
>BACK IN MY DAY, WE DIDN'T HAVE ALL THIS WOLF SHIT EVERYWHERE. WE WERE A PROPER LEGION DAMMIT! WE FOUGHT AND DIDN'T NEED ANY OF THIS CRAP. NOW LOOK AT ME! I LOOK LIKE A FUCKING PET STORE!

>BAH, THAT'S NOTHING. MY LEGION USED TO BE NEAR-PSYCHOTIC BADASSES. NOW LOOK AT US. WE CAN'T EVEN FIGHT ONE BATTLE WITHOUT SOMEONE HOWLING LIKE AN IDIOT. DAMN KIDS THESE DAYS AND THEIR DOGS.

>TELL ME ABOUT IT. THEY KEEP WAKING ME UP AND ASKING ME ABOUT WHAT RUSS WOULD'VE WANTED OR TELL THEM STORIES. I ALWAYS KEEP TELLIN' EM THE SAME THING. GET RID OF THIS WOLF CRAP AND LET ME GET BACK TO MY MID-MILLENIUM NAP. NOW WHERE'S MY SEXY MECHANICUM NURSE! I NEED MY LUBRICANT SPONGE-BATH

>>43663115
>Psykers are their OWN source of power
That power is drawn from the warp, so it isn't the psyker's own. Psyker is just a conduit that directs the power in a desired maner

>>43663115
I would say that Psykers attempt to manipulate the warp and Sorcerors are manipulated by it.

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>>43662039
I like the fact that this is cannon

>>43663402
Actually we don't know how this warp shit actually works, perhaps the demonic pacts work to hide the sorcerer psychic signature while the normal psyker shine like a lighthouse attracting warp predators, but what we are told is that sorcerers use this pacts to draw more power from the warp, the problem with this is that ultimately you end of possessed or worst.

>>43664258
Daemons offer secrets, forgotten knowledge, the usual...

You are thinking to hard.

>>43663181

WOLF WOLF WOLF vs DOG DOG DOG

Which is better?

>>43663115
>Not all Sorcerors are even Psykers.

Hey, asshole. The Main rulebook and the Grey Knight codex outright say that Psychic power and sorcery are one and the same. The differences between them exist only in the minds of ignorant men (you).

>>43667201
Which completely contradicted all previous fluff.

Also Grey Knights do khornate blood rituals, summon deamons, carry possessed weapons and all sorts of Shit beyond heresies of the pre-HH K-sons.

>>43667340
>Which completely contradicted all previous fluff.

I don't think so. It's more of an explanation to something that previously wasn't explored. We only got the in-verse perspective of ignorant men (you) on the subject.

>Also Grey Knights do khornate blood rituals, summon deamons, carry possessed weapons and all sorts of Shit beyond heresies of the pre-HH K-sons.

And there is qoute in the Grey Knight codex which they state that they are aware using sorcery to combat sorcery and they tell anyone who disagrees to fuck off.

>Grey Knights do khornate blood rituals

Purification rituals. Purity seals and sanctified requires blood of the innocent. The Inquisition and Imperial church have made extensive use of innocent blood to empower their weapons, not just the Grey Knights.

Also when the Grey Knights did it it was to counter Khornate taint.

>summon deamons

No.

>carry possessed weapons

Only one dude and because it's too dangerous to leave laying around and he does not draw upon the power of the sword. He just safegaurds it.

>beyond heresies of the pre-HH K-sons.

Made deals with Tzeentch, their culture encourage daemon summoning and communing with spirits of the warp.

>>43667395
>And there is qoute in the Grey Knight codex which they state that they are aware using sorcery to combat sorcery and they tell anyone who disagrees to fuck off.

Yup, throwing more fire on this fire is sure to work.

>Purification rituals. Purity seals and sanctified requires blood of the innocent. The Inquisition and Imperial church have made extensive use of innocent blood to empower their weapons, not just the Grey Knights.

The Imperial Church usually just asks someone to hold out an arm and look away. They generally don't decapitate their faithful servants of their god in their gods name. Except maybe the Death Cults. But they are freaks.

>Also when the Grey Knights did it it was to counter Khornate taint.

Or gain his favour with sacrifice to let them pass.

>summon deamons
>No.
Not what is stated in their codex. They do it for interrogation then put them in a box of xeno make.

>Only one dude and because it's too dangerous to leave laying around and he does not draw upon the power of the sword. He just safegaurds it.

And it constantly whispers temptations to him. Much like how Diana Troi managed to become an officer through being allowed infinite retries of the test so he will fall one day.

You know what works better than having a dude carry it around? Putting it in a stasis field.

>Made deals with Tzeentch, their culture encourage daemon summoning and communing with spirits of the warp.

Replace Big Bird with Blood God and that's a good description of the GK as written by Ward.

Also the Relictors got excommunicated for hoarding less tainted crap than the GKs.

And this isn't even going in the fact that their leader lives in the Realm of Chaos and their dead keep coming back in a manner that is a bit Nurgley.

>>43664061
Bjorn is so impossibly based. He's probably the only dreadnought, probably the only marine, in the Imperium to have flirted with female inquisitors...while they're threatening to declare his chapter heretical.