>>39741879
>One anon said he'll make a Hirudo page, so we'll see when that happens
Setting it up tomorrow once I get off work sorry

>>39741879
So does the last thread need archiving on suptg? or should we just let moe take care of it?

Otherwise yeah what is the summary of that "different take" of the Hirudo race? just curious.

>>39742469
Just let moe take care of it
And as for the summary, basically a lot more blood, no arms, a bit more European-styled, and that's the gist of it
Look at it in the last thread, it's three long posts

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>>39742582
>no arms
Not sure how I feel about that, especially since there's been a lot of art done of them with arms.

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>>39741879
And here's the Hirudo summary
The Hirudo, just like the Miga/Flyfolk and Mothfolk, are a bug race created by /tg/, the bug this time being leeches.

Before I go further, I should mention that most of this is what is the most accepted version, therefore the most "canon" version.

The Hirudo/Leechfolk aren't spooky scary worm vampires, as some might expect, but rather uncivilized swamp tribesmen who have recently become civilized through some means. The Hirudo, while having a craving and a necessity for blood, don't harvest it from humans and other such beings, (Although if you want some medical help from a Hirudo doctor, you best believe you're paying in literal blood money) but from giant toads and swamp boars, bred specifically for the reason of blood harvesting, as seen in this picture. There's always exceptions to the rule of course, with the above mentioned blood money, and so-called "Wasters", which are wild and barbaric Hirudo who have fully given into their bloodlust, attacking anybody anything with blood, gorging themselves until their full, only for the process to repeat again.

With the Hirudo being a fairly minor race, not exactly the prettiest in terms of looks, and some social stigma from the aforementioned blood drinking, warfare is not a common occurrence with the Hirudo, where they would find few allies, and many enemies. Although if warfare should occur, weapons such as saw-toothed clubs and large blowguns covered in the anticoagulant spit of a leech to bleed out enemies and making them easier to identify, are used, along with natural sound/sonic based attacks through both natural ability and the use of giant toads, who can be also used as stampeding beasts by enraging them, although this causes great harm to the giant toads, and using their swamplands to a large advantage. Salt, blood-depravation, and non-humid areas are MAJOR weaknesses however.

1/2

>>39742645
Yeah the no arms thing is just one anon. They've been viewed as having arms since the beginning

Not saying that one anon didn't have some good ideas with their love of incense and public bathing houses

>>39742647
Religion hasn't really been discussed yet, but a general idea for the Hirudo god, Sanguisuga, is to be a leech who sucked the blood of the dying God of Life and/or Healing, who's corpse The Great Maggot feasted on. This in turn causes Sanguisuga to become the minor God of Medicine and Medical Professionals, as part of the divine power was also given to The Great Maggot. This also causes the priests and clerics to not be healers through prayer, but actual doctors with extremely potent medicines made from various fauna and flora in the swamps. They also make super-crazy drugs to use against enemies.

And as for magic, the idea is that the Hirudo to drink the blood of magical creatures/beings and mages, and get magical powers equal to theirs.

That's pretty much it for the Hirudo so far.

>>39742645
Yeah, it got a mixed leaning negative reception.

>>39742772
What should Sanguisuga, if we're calling it that, look like?
I honestly can't think of shit

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>>39743201
I'm thinking in terms of like maybe a dreamtime version of the caduceus?

Something vaguely medical looking?

Back from the old thread, hoping we could get some 5e/PF compatible stats for the Miga and Hirudo. Possibly the spider race if that turns out being a thing.

>>39743334
Alright, how about a giant winged leech with two arms. In one hand-mouth is holding a cane or staff with a vine or some local flora, and a small-lengthy leech twirling around it. In the other hand, a flask filled with some sort of bright-red liquid. Finally it's covered in bandages below the "waist".
It's emblem is a bandage-wrapped flask.

>>39743568
That's pretty good.

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>>39743339
What kind of spider race should we work with? I've been liking the idea of the little Jumping Spiders being the resident cute society of little fellas. But I've done more than a few doodles of pic related as well.

What should we do for little spiderbros? independant solitary wanderers who go from place to place? Selling wares, hunting beasts, bein equal parts cute and bad ass.

>>39743606
The idea that I had brewing was a sort or Sherpa/Shaolin cross going for the Jumping Spiders. I'm more than happy to start work on other species, worldbuilding is an area I'd like to improve in. A guy from the other thread had a similar idea to host a campaign set in the world of bugs. Just hafta convince the player with insectophobia that we're NOT out to get him.

>>39743606
Cute jumping spiders who's ancestors were fearsome hunters, setting up a reputation of being spooky scary spiders, but are actually adorable
But let's save that for later, we don't want to get start creating new races before we even finish the old ones.

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>>39743703
If he's got insectophobia why not have him play a spider. Or am I missing the point?

>>39743750
Agreed.

>>39743568
Here's some middling progress on a Leech God. basic scketch lines so far.

>>39743776
The fear extends to pretty much all arthropods. He said that he might be willing since it's full insect immersion, no human/bug contrast.
Also, I agree. Let us codify the Hirudo and Miga before the lovable Jumping Spiders take the spotlight.

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>>39743776
Make the bandages more densely wrapped, and leave the tail out, like a ghost trail.

I don't like the flask shape, but then I realize that Leeches can't exactly hold the classic potion glass. Maybe something closer to one of the older drawings?

>>39743832
Nah, an erlenmeyer flask
Also I finally remembered the name of the old spider-people, the Makkari.

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>>39743832
I guess I was thinking too much "science test tube". so a more bulbous end to it? or a Erlenmeyer flask like >>39743922 said?

What about pic related?

>>39743922
>>39743934
not sure about those for purely aesthetic reasons: bandages on those would look a little odd.

What's important is that the mouth is wider than test tubes, because you're trying to feed blood into it.

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>>39743953
How's this then? I used a shape similar to one used on the "bloodfarmer" image from last thread.

You know, I think we never designed Myiagra back then either
I think one suggestion was to be really fuzzy like a botfly though

>>39744213
That's pretty good, I like. Why don't you try drawing the Mothfolk and Kirriga gods Cirme and Meratsu next?

>>39744242
Crime is a generalized Fey/elf god right? Meratsu a similar sun god as well? Or are they both moth/butterfly themed?

>>39744273
Cirme is pretty much a fae god with wings, and Meratsu is a sun phoenix. So, do what you will with that.

>>39742772

>mixed

I am pro-arms

No arms is completely idiotic. Unless you want MLP-Style telekinesis

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>>39744213

I think if the bottom of the staff was shaped a bit more like this, it'd be neat.

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>>39744478
Okay I can add that in. But I might need an explanation on what that stick in that image is... exactly. Is that blade at the end? does it have a groove in it for blood letting?

>>39744478
Man, that seems a little brutal

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>>39744515

It is for blood-letting

>>39744624

Yeah

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Alright how's this for a Cirme design? Does she need to look more royal/regal? or is this good enough for a rough sketch?

>>39744515
Not too sure what the wings should be like in particular, but as a whole, it's a little top-heavy. Then again, Hirudo ARE top-heavy.

Perhaps make the hips and bandages wider?

I considered making the wings a network of veins, but that sounds pointlessly over-elaborate.

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>>39744926
>Vein wings
Its a nice idea. I mean maybe nothing as intricate as actual veins but a sort of network of tendrils like pic related might work.

Otherwise maybe feathery angel wings might've been something he 'inherited' from draining the Primordial Life God.

>>39744963
I'd put my vote in for regular feathery angel wings, with very little detail to the feathers, just to keep the image from getting too complex.

We can't make it TOO hard for Hirudo sculptors.

Thoughts on centipede centaur?

>>39745079
Terrifying. More so than Driders or Scarrows.

>>39745079

Sounds good. And kinky

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>>39744990
We can always roll with "his true form is beyond imagination" kind of thing. Feathery god wings is good for sculptors and popular images. The truth could be stranger. Here have a "Blood Vial" symbol.

Speaking of wings I haven't got much feedback on the Cirme sketch. Should I rework it? is there a different direction i should take it in? >>39744858

>>39745132
Sorry, I've only been here for Hirudo, haven't had the time to read up on the other races.

>>39745132
>>39745151
Hah, lettering on the badages:
>For God | We Bleed
>Blood | Balance
>From one | For another

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>>39745156
I'm quite partial to "From One|For Another" Has the widest application, from literal blood drinking to maybe more moral pursuits. Though they're all good. I hope this makes a good "simplified" symbol.

>>39745244
Ohhh, that's great. You could put that on patches for uniforms or something.

>Hirudo Blood Drives, done by guild-approved professionals

It also makes me think of a symbol for Waster, either the second symbol placed upside down, or a broken flask. Not so much a symbol worn by them but for signs that basically say "WARNING HERE THERE BE WASTERS"

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>>39745269
Perhaps the flask upside-down but empty of blood. No red "tear Drop" shape just an empty hole. And maybe it can lose the "ribbons" symbolizing that there is nothing that ties them together, as a community.

All right, I'm thinking I want to make a world where all these races exist together, not least because it sounds like a great campaign.

I'm going to start small, building a city for all the races to live in, and then building how the other races interact with each other from that.

The problem with this is that I can't really imagine any of the insects being city builders. The mothfolk (especially the Ottoman kind) make great traders, the Miga make great "untouchable" level plebeians, and the Hirudo make for great "barbarian from the swamp tribes". Which of them would be most likely to actually build some kind of slum-filled city state?

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>>39745269
Would like to mention, after doing some fiddling around for a Waster Symbol, i'm getting a bit of a Beserk vibe from a couple of these.

>>39745477
Left one looks best, in my opinion.

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>>39745459
>Hirudo make for great "barbarian from the swamp tribes"
That is more the wasters, but still Hirudo are more medical professionals. Frankly I'd see them as being the kind of guys to maintain a "clean" quarter, full of medeival medicine like pic related but still.

For which one would have a slummy citystate, I'm not sure. I lean towards Hirudo, but not as some sort of ruling city, but a trade city. A small settlement that got big due to outsider traffic, and since hirudo value blood it sort of becomes a "cheap" place to stop by. Hirudo and Miga get along famously due to the shared lineage of their gods, but overall they sort of start getting pushed to the sidelines due to traffic from other races who are less receptive to the Miga and have to "Politely" move the smelly fly guys away, social pressures and all. And mothfolk are welcome but cautious overall, Hirudo in their barbarian days hassled the shit out of mothfolk, and tales of Bloodtoads snatching poor mothfolk as they travel the roads puts them on edge.

Rough ideas. Keep in mind.

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>>39745506
Okay cool. I was worried it would look too "Ankh"-y so i mucked with it a little. Good to see the simplest answers work best.

had one more concept with and without ribbon/bandage.

>>39745477
my favorite is broken flask, upright.

>they keep filling it, but it will never be filled

>>39746324
Nah, that one just doesn't look like a symbol that'd be used. Too complicated.

>>39746424
I've seen more complicated symbols. I'm fine with it.
In any case, I'm sure it can be simplified or have variations.

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>>39744858
Just a word of note, it's spelled Cimre.

Also I could see her with some stellar and lunar attributes like pic related, to add to both the Fae feel and the idea that she's a Moon/Twilight goddess.

>>39742645
Why do people keep calling those arms?
They are obviously two extra eyeless heads.

>>39744858
I believe her wings are feathered, as the origin of the Mothfolk says they came from Cimre's feathers.

So... centipedes and dragonflies as the monsters of the world, a la dragons and wurms?

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>>39741879
>Hirudo/Leeches, aren't done, and it would be pretty neat to see them finished.
you know it's funny I actually did create a race of leech-folk for an old pathfinder game I ran quite some time ago.

they were a mostly primitive society of cannibals with an advanced understanding of alchemy (their alchemists knew how to make mustard gas) and they rode Otyugh war-mounts.

I'm sure I still have their racial profile around here somewhere...

also forgive the bad artwork,

>>39749860
In my bugworld book centipedes do fill the role of dragons including hoarding treasure. Bus sized centipedes scouring theground. It's why so many races evolved flight to escape them

>>39748215
Feathered in the same way Moths are, with the "feathers" actually resembling tiny hairs, is how I always pictured Cimre.

bump

>>39749869
it's not bad at all. a little different, though.

>>39749860
Dragonflies aren't dragons, they're samurai-paladins who train in an underwater monastery, who do this because they were taken in by a dragon god.

>>39755025
>>39749860
While it's turning into a world populated by several arthropod races I believe the setting still has humans and other mythological beasties so there are literal scaled fire-breathing dragons around

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Big ass worms, yes or no?

>>39755707
Maybe

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>>39755928
Highly volatile easily mutated big ass worms?

>>39756000
Nah

>>39755707
Yes but only one

>>39755707
As the BBEG? sure. As a thing in the world? maybe in nuclear fallout wastes. As a thing IRL? pls god no.

>>39755707
Towns are being sucked into giant abyss's as a creature moves through the ground leaving destruction in its wake. The destruction is moving eastward and nothing is said to be able to stop it.

Hirudo wasters are said to be following in its bloodthirsty path, revering the Worm as a god of blood. It is even rumoured that the worm god is on a warpath towards the civilised Hirudo in the swamp, getting ready to smite them for pushing away their primal blood lust.

I'm not a writefag so this is pretty bad

You know, we never talked about Mothfolk warfare. We've talked about Miga with their swarms and biological warfare, and I think in one thread the Hirudo were talked of being masters at guerilla warfare, but the Mothfolk's style was never discussed besides "Alchemy and Magic". What do you think would be some common tactics of the Mothfolk army? How about the Farapidaans?

>>39741879
>such as the origins of the Butterflies, now known as the Kirriga
What is it?
What is the origin of the Butterflies?

>>39758962
Miga eggs taken in by Mothfolk and through Fey-magic corruption become butterflies/Kirriga

>>39759178
I thought they were taken in by the sun god, Mertatsu or something, and became like those sunstruck or whatever moth people

>>39759178
>>39759238
I was under the assumption that butterflies were the mothfolk that exclusively worshiped Meratsu, like the Sunstruck.

>>39759270
>>39759238
Oh then that's possible. Been a while since I was in the Miga threads and we were discussing them

>>39759238
>>39759270
Could be both.
The Kirriga are Miga taken in by Meratsu, but they'll allow anybody in as long as they make Meratsu their main god.

>>39744515
Nailed it bruh

>>39758125
what about sleep powder? They fly above settlements and dump sleeping dust over them, and then they win.
Although enemies of Mothfolk would develop defenses against this, such as breathing masks or antidotes.
How do you fight a legion of mothfolk?
Dire bats?

>>39761179
Giant candles

>>39761216
Nah, giant boxes with a bunch of mirrors AND a giant candle inside, with a hole that can open and close. A make-shift spot light to blind the Moths.
Also firefly people.

>>39761179

You wait for them to starve to death

>>39755025
Speaking of them, I've been thinking of a few things about them. Minor things, really.

First, their flight combat is based more on speed, unlike othe anthropoid races which have a bigger focus on maneuverability. This might be because they want to keep up with dragons when they fly. Their high speed makes them excellent couriers as well.

Second, amongst their cultural contributions they have excellent dance troupes. They have great value of purposeful movements and gracefulness. This has a notable influence in their culture, such as their martial prowess. They may also have a social stigma against clumsiness amongst themselves, and there is more shame attached for them.

Just spitballing ideas. If they're bad, just ignore them.

>>39761179
Fire.
Damage their wings, and their whole strategy goes to hell.
The thing about being covered in flammable material is that they are, well, flammable.
Also, toxins directly enter the 'bloodstream' due to the way hexapods develop.
Smoke them down, or shoot them down.

>>39762459
Well yeah, they were focused on speed since the beginning, because of training with water resistance for a majority of their 800-820 year life. I like the courier job though, could probably make some good training for acolytes.
And the graceful movements along with the dancing can work too, as a "Swift and graceful as a coursing river, as powerful as a crashing wave." mentality for fighting and other things.

>>39761179
You tell the local butterflies they called Meratsu a shit

>>39761179
Fireworks

Bump

So, guys, where do such things as millipedes fit into all of this?

>>39767499
The same place termites do.

>>39767499
Herd animals like cattle? They are super peaceful herbivores

>>39762459
>>39762711

Cultural contributions? They are warrior-monks who emerge from the waves on sacred missions to hunt evil and destroy monsters. Other people may write operas about them, but they don't have time to form dance troupes.

>>39770206
I'm imagining 300 years of training in gardens of perpetual youth, then the oracles read the signs of impending doom and the masters nominate champions from the trainees. They are given sealed orders, molt on the seashore, and race against incredibly rapid aging to win victory and return to lay eggs in the sea before they die of old age.

>>39770698
Neat

>>39769133
Building off this idea, how do we work predatory/carnivorous bugs into a setting where what they usually eat is sentient? The idea of my party members eyeing me up as a snack might dissuade from joining said party.

>>39772937

Non-sentient arthropods.

>>39772937
There are less 'PC' races than you have fingers, like in most settings. Right now there are 4&1/2 bug races, and maybe the standard fantasy races.

Everything else is a monster, wild animal, or domesticated animal of some sort.

Why is there such a disproportionate focus on winged insects?

I like the Centipede/Millipede ideas being tossed out.

If we want to work on a new race, I think that'd be neat.

>>39773290
I still want my termite vs. ant vs. bee city state warfare.

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>>39773524

It's been done

>>39770206
You can't build a race on just one thing. They got to have a history, and non-combatants. Otherwise they aren't a species, but closer to a group or organization.

>>39773290
It's not focusing just on a winged races, it's just a goof idea to work on unfinished races before being barraged and overloaded with a number of new racea

>>39775317
Yeah it's pretty much decided that Jumping SPider folk is next after we get Miga and Hirudo further wrapped up

Bump

If we're going to have a world with a bunch of man-sized insects, then I think the predators of those insects should be equally sized sized up. I'm talking Rocs, I'm talking Bigass Worm, Wyrms, Wurms, and Wyverns.
Obviously if these bugs are at war occassionally, they'll figure out ways to domesticate some of the many species of megafauna.
The size of this world should be many times larger than earth.
Initially, individual species evolved/were created on their own continents but obviously spread out to their current distributions. Since the planet is so larger, the many species have had lots of time for isolation when successful colonies became cut off from the main population. The high number of gods manipulating mortals also contributes to magically-created species.
Hirudo swamps would have Dire Herons, with legs that look like tree-branches, a huge number of crocodilian species, too many to count.
For an aquatic race, how about Giant Talking Horseshoe Crabs. They don't really have hands or the ability to use tools well...but they have great personality!

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>>39777917
>Giant Talking Horseshoe Crabs

So how are Miga supposed to know who Muga reincarnated as? Does the previous Muga select an egg or maggot as the next one? Or do priests choose an egg after Muga dies?

>>39778480
I am going to say they do it Dalai Lama style.

>>39778480
>>39778702
Each reincarnation of Muga, during his final moments and after he writes hia last entry in the Holy Book of Muga, has what is called a, "Last Vision", where Muga will describe anywhere from the location of his birth, to the description of his progenitors. It is the holy order of Myiagra's job to find the reincarnated Muga, and quickly too, as the political unbalance of Muga-less Miga nation could have disastrous potential. Then the holy order, after finding the reincarnation, will train the new Muga in the way of his previous reincarnations, thr holy scripture, martial arts, and many other such things, as the reincarnation will have forgotten his previous lives, becoming the powerful, in spiritual, physical, and mental aspects, holy monk Muga again and again.

Could I bring up the anophalii? They're a race of mosquito men/women.

The men are all fairly harmless and are actually technological geniuses, subsisting entirely on plant matter. The women are bloodthirsty monsters constantly consumed by hunger who will suck the blood and most vital organs from anyone with blood to steal.

The fucked up thing is that the women are just as intelligent as the men, but can only focus on things besides being hungry after they've fed.

>>39780076
Besides the technological and general intelligence, those are basically just giant mosquitos.

>>39773796
That's exactly what they are. And it's awesome.

>>39780076
>>39780258
And besides, Miga vampires are already turning into a mosquito.

Who's up for making up a crustacean coastal race that is leaning more towards precambrian fauna (Anomalocaris, Opabinia et al)?

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>>39780509

>>39780509
If you'd make a crustacean race, they should be the ancient/elder race of the insects.

>>39780818
Lobstermen that keep increasing in size until they need an artificial exoskeleton transplant.

>>39780560
What is this thing?

>>39780474
Not for a species. They'd fall behind the curve, become obsolete, and die out as a result. Also, it might get a bit boring.
That they be a martial-dominated culture and society as a whole is fine, mind you. But having everyone be part of what they're most recognized for is not great.

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>>39781470
It's a humanoid version of this little fella. It was Precambrian and very tiny.
The smallest race in the this setting should be intelligent Water Bears.

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>>39744458
you can have them manipulate things with an extremely flexible body/tail and mouth
arms is too "humanizing" you can make their society more alien without them.
>>39742772
I vote for what I said in the last thread about Religion and Kingship being intertwined, a kind of sacrificial King who rules for a very short period but passes down his knowledge and experience through a special blood transfer learned by Princes, allowing "dynasties" to form where there is a continuous blood-memory from one king to the next, as well as extreme chaos if that line is broken somehow (such as an unsuccessful sacrifice ceremony.

>>39781630
NIGGER
WE'VE GONE OVER THIS
LEECHES AREN'T DEXTEROUS
ARMS, OR AT LEAST SOME FORM OF HANDS, ARE NEEDED TO CRAFT BASIC NECESSITIES SUCH AS SHELTER AND CRAFTING TOOLS
YOU CAN'T WIELD SHIT WITHOUT ARMS
THEY'D HAVE TO EITHER BE PSYCHIC, OR JUST OVERGROWN LEECH PREDATORS
NO ARMS IS FUCKING DUMB
I LIKE THE IDEA FOR A KINGSHIP THOUGH, I WOULD LENGTHEN THE RULING PERIOD HOWEVER, AS THE SHORT RULING PERIOD MAKES IT A LITTLE TOO CLOSE TO THE MIGA IN THEIR DALAI LAMA-TYPE OF LEADERSHIP
PLUS LEECHES WOULD ACTUALLY LIVE AN AMOUNT OF TIME CONSIDERABLY SIMILAR TO HUMANS AT THAT LEVEL OF SIZE

>>39781796
>YOU CAN'T WIELD SHIT WITHOUT ARMS
you think along human terms, their items don't need to be the kind a human would use

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>>39782071
Is it okay if I think arms are just better looking to draw? plus that gives them this implication that their arms are "extra" heads if they have mouths at the end.

>>39781796
the short kingship is mitigated by a large council of nobles who do continue on and rule the day to day
the King is closer to a demigod than a mere political ruler as he along can retain memories and ideas from centuries of collected knowledge.

it also brings about widespread infighting in the Princely harems since there must be many eligible princes but only one can be chosen every year, think like Ottoman style court intrigue and assassination attempts where princes low in the line of succession may drain the ruling King and effectively "steal" the bloodline as once a Prince joins the ancient bloodline they are effectively King and cannot be charged for murder in the same way a civilian could.

it could also make way for rouge Princes draining people at random as a way to secure more power and usurp the current bloodline.

>>39782172
I just don;t see the need for a non-human, non-mammal, non-vertebrate to be stuck in a humanoid form and limitations.

>>39782071
I don't think you realize this
You
Can't
Make
Shit
If
You
Don't
Have
Arms
Or
Some
Similar
Equivalent
To
Hands
Or
At
Least
Multiple
Limbs
That
Can
Grasp
Things
Like
An
Octopus
Or
A
Squid
Regular leeches don't have ANY of the above. If you want to make a race of leeches with tools and weapons and other shit, they're gonna NEED keyword NEED arms and hands or some similar equivalent etc. It's literally not fucking possible.

>>39782196
>You
>Can't
>Make
>Shit
>If
>You
>Don't
>Have
>Arms
you can't make human oriented stuff as easily, but who says you can't make things built for an invertebrate form morphology?

these leeches are closer to Lamia than a fully non-human race

>>39782238
related
here's a hagfish tying itself into a knot in order to gain more traction and force itself out of the mans hand
https://vimeo.com/7825337

>>39782276
IS THAT A LEECH?
NO
IS IT RELATED TO A LEECH?
NO
IS IT USING DEXTERITY, OR SLIME TO GET OUT OF THE HAND?
SLIME
WHICH LEECHES DON'T HAVE
DOES THAT MEAN THE HAGFISH CAN BUILD SHIT?
NO

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>>39782196
Being this hyperbolic is not helping your case. And I'm on team "give leechfolk arms". >>39782238 Makes some neat points. If leechfolk had no arms we could really play up the alien morphology angle.

We're so lucky these are fictitious creatures made up in our own heads that we can imagine and can also be different from person to person. Lets not get so tied up in a tizzy.

>>39782446
I'm gonna be as autistic as I want about this
Fuck you
No arms is dumb
Nice drawing by the way

>>39782446
Looks neat, but perhaps a good compromise to arms vs armless would be something like tentacle arms with psuedo-mouths with fang-like nails.
Perhaps their arms resemble the shape of their head as a defense mechanism? Like the arms having eyespots where their eyes would be.

>>39782238
Alright
I'm gonna be semi-reasonable here
I want you to tell me HOW leeches with no arms would build either
1. Buildings
Or
2.Weapons
Or
3.Regular Commodities

>>39782528
No
No compromise

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>>39782528
I will admit, the way I made their arms look were entirely arbitrary. I thought bulbous popeye arms looked good attached to a cute leech girl or lanky leech dude. Mouthands are a definite feature people seem to like. Your idea sounds kinda neat. adds more things to doodle on their arms to give personality to each character.

>>39782494
Thanks anon.

>>39782581
I like them with arms, but I'm sure tool-using ability could develop from a species without arms, they would be more like parrots, who use their feet and beak/tongue as a pair of manipulators. Basically they would have to use their mouth as one hand and their tail as another. Both moth and tail would have to work together to craft tool, but I am having a hard time seeing them develop anything paste stone tools. Then again, not every race needs to be tool-using nation builders.
Hirudo could be a race that rarely makes tools or homes for themselves. If it weren't for the waterproof pouches they wear, even armed Hirudo might not be recognizably intelligent by someone who has never met them.
>>39782585 You're style looks really good, and makes them look really strong, but perhaps their arms should be more uniformly thick and larger at the hands and head. I also don't think they should have necks.

>>39782706
How would they wield the weapons with any sort of effectiveness though

>>39782585
Ay, did you finish those mothfolk gods yet?

>>39782706
I also had an idea for Hirudo decoration where were smaller leeches on their bodies.
>>39782758
>weapons
They are literally giant intelligent leeches. They don't need weapons. Human needed weapons to hang with the other megafauna, but leeches don't have the same threats/competition humans did. They either overwhelm their opponents with physical force or they swim away. They rarely leave the environment they have always been adapted to. Who do they need weapons for? To fight each other, other races?
They have the blow guns, that could be used without arms.
I know we talked about crocodile-tooth clubs, for an armless Hirduo it would be more like a spiked nub they hold in their mouth or tail manipulator like a stinger.

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>>39782706
>You're style looks really good, and makes them look really strong, but perhaps their arms should be more uniformly thick and larger at the hands and head. I also don't think they should have necks.
Again thanks. The thickness of the arms and neck thing have come to mind a couple of times. Again its a bit of a "drawing it to make it look cute rather than accurate." I've definitely done the no neck thing and it definitely looks good. Pic related. It also has more uniformly thick.

>>39782786
I haven't had much of a chance. Been sort of busy with end of year stuff and other big deal art projects. I've done a sketch of Cimre earlier in the thread right here >>39744858 got some good advice for it too.

>>39751193
>>39748215
Hairy feather wings instead of moth wings.

>>39746518
More moon and star attributes. I'll give it another shot sometime and I'm more than open for more ideas.

Especially about Meratsu, all i've got so far is "vaguely Phoenix-y Dawn God thing"

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>>39782819
>I also had an idea for Hirudo decoration where were smaller leeches on their bodies.
I like that. It might be a good way to "explain" the 'gooey' hair/facial hair/waddles i draw them with.

>>39782844
They could be domesticated leeches, or literally their leech children in a larval stage.
They could produce the effect of beards or dreadlocks quite well.

>>39782862
Hirudo with dreads. This needs to be a thing for the Wasters.

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>>39782914
Two steps ahead of you.

>>39782989
Yeah I was trying to engineer a way to explain stuff like that. Perhaps Hirudo exchange dreads with each other as a sign of friendship or love?
If you would like to color a Hirudo, I think this leech has a pretty good pattern.

>>39781563
Hah, water bear pixies, anyone? They trondle about like a whole race of Tom Bombadils because they know they're indestructible.

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>>39783060
This is the one I mean.

>>39782828
>Especially about Meratsu, all i've got so far is "vaguely Phoenix-y Dawn God thing"
Alright, how about a blue phoenix, who gets golden-red near and on his tail and crest/head, surrounded in flame and shining golden rays of light. He's also opening up his beak, and inside is something beautiful I dunno, maybe a rainbow. That's it for ideas I got.

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>>39783060
I really should. Color a Hirudo that is. I've been rolling with Generic purples, grays, and grayish blues, again mostly for simplicity's sake/placeholderhood. >>39783105 Greens, browns, and yellow ochre, good reference I'll keep that in mind.

>>39783101
I'm pretty much imagining a Leechy version of cinderella with some crazy waterbear meandering its way through the air to do some young leech wish fufillment.

>>39783101
Or play them as tiny astronauts. No one speaks their language, but you see them around... collecting samples and performing tests.
If you want to play up the fay aspect, Water bears undergo seasonal metamorphosis of their face. Perhaps part of dealing with them is recognizing their facial morph which dictates some of their behavior.

>>39783132
Why not both? Classic pixie types known for being tricksters of a sort. But the truth is stranger than fiction, they've got a society but they sort of behave in ways subtly incomprehensible to other races. They salvage strange little things and build strange little designs. erecting tiny monoliths and sleeping in secret places of the world.

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>>39783123
I'll try those out. Here's a quick sketch that I whipped up. The sun is at Meratsu's heart? or is that too... "Major" a feature for him? I'll give this another shot when its not quite so... late at night.

Also, he's got a quail head thing.

>>39781796
>>39782706
>species without arms
There are ways, yes. Using grasping feet is very similar to having hands, though, only requiring more balance and having less maximum carrying capacity.

Tentacles can MAYBE work, but while they have grip strength, they lack precision control for angled swings(Or rather, they're so flexible it's hard to keep a CONSTANT angle).

Beaks are capable of concentrating force onto a single point, and mouths have much better angular control, but it's kinda hard to see when you use either. They also lack the sheer variety of functions that tools can have.

I'm going to have to side with All Caps Anon here. There are a variety of methods to work without arms, but none of them fit for leeches. Leech teeth can grant a surprising amount of grip strength, but your eyes are still stuck to your head. Tentacles might work, but from what I understand they aren't leech appendages, anyway.

>>39782819
There are a lot of tools that they would still prefer to have. It would be difficult to perform Hirudo Medical Practices without extra limbs to hold the flasks and tools, for example. Cutting down trees would also be rather difficult.

Technically, if we restrict Hirudo building to the equivalent of beaver dams, we could go armless, but that's not the direction I want to take them.

>>39783526
What about if they use their tails? Like an octupus uses a tentacle, they could use their long body/tails to hold something.

>>39784668
Do Nagas or Lamias use their tails to hold stuff? If they do, describe it, because I don't know how using the tail affects balance.

>>39781470
>>39781563
An opabinia Kaiju I drew. Supposed to look like an old school kaiju costume with a man inside

So its unanimous.

Hirudo have arms, potentially with eyespots to give a hydra impression. No arms just doesn't seem popular enough or practical with everything we've already come up with for them.

>>39783372
Thought his Quail bobble was moth antennae for a second.

>>39785993

If it were extra tentacles instead of arms, I'd be fine with that.

I feel the Hirudo must have some form of apprendages, though.

>>39786119
Yes. Arms.

>>39786302

You need bones or chitin for that.

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>>39786314
Then they have some bones for arms, nowhere else are there bone
Kinda like Gigginox who definitely has some bones, but also has leech parts

>>39786314
Shark-like cartilage skeleton. Gives support AND flexibility.

Besides their giant bugs with divine origins. All of these races can't physically exist anyways.

They have arms because majority rule it so.

>>39786314
I was thinking a mix of muscle, keratin and >>39786654

The hardest part of a Hirudo is their elbow(caps?) and teeth, so why not just make them similar material(keratin?). They might not have the ball and socket joint at the shoulders, but I think you could achieve a similar level of flexibility with a cartilage frame and a mix of small and large muscles.

>>39781490
They're not a normal species or race, they're a magical underwater monastery (monasteries?) full of warriors. I'm talking about a race with Special Rule: start at max level, every time the party levels up you have a 50% chance to lose a level to aging.


They don't need to worry about the advance of technology and tactics - unless we're planning to set this in the fantasy Enlightenment or the fantasy 19th Century, in which case it makes perfect sense for a monastery of warrior monks to be obsolete relics.

>>39787068
I'm not talking about fighting. I'm talking about living. Who hunts, prepares the food, fixes the monastery, teaches the young, interacts with foreigners, ect? You can have a class be predominant within the species, but you have to justify having every member be that class.

Such as they were all magically created specifically to be warriors and are still magically spawned, for example. By the way, I don't recommend said example since it takes away individuality at some level, which would suck for players.

I still say Dragonflies are better of being the dragons of the setting rather than this underwater monastery thing as it brings too many questions in regards to how exactly their society works. A monster that can kill you from birth to its death seems to make more sense to me.

>>39788348

I didn't come up with the idea, but I actually like it.

It may be somewhat complicated, but I think that's doing more than going for the low-hanging fruit regarding the dragonflies.

I feel it ties in well to their long life-span, and their aquatic nature.

>>39787214
The nymphs who don't get sent into the world run the monastery as teachers and masters, and the neophytes who are being trained do the serving and farming. Just like a real monastery. How often do you think they need to overthrow a hitler or kill a dracolich anyway?

It's a fantastic otherworldly magical thing: try not to think about it so much, better to focus on the actual societies like the spiders and leeches.

>>39788386
I'm fine with the underwater monastery myself.
I just want them to do more then that, and interact with the other societies in ways other then 'there's something that needs killing and towns that need defending'. Having excellent, fast couriers that bring news and help deploy responses faster, for example.

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>>39788965

Maybe there can be some stratifaction with the other 'flies.

Like Mayflies.

>>39782581
>buildings
tunneling or tying their tails around bricks in order to grab hold of them, then knotting themselves around to secure the bricks and orient them.
>weapons
weapons designed for a soft invertebrate body, starting off with wrapping their tails around stones in order to use them for chiseling others into proper shape

remember that these creatures have total body control, beyond humans so they can contort into many shapes and apply their muscle in many more ways.

I imagine their weaponry looking akin to dumbbells, or a mass with a thin center and two bulbous ends, this makes it easier for the creature to wrap its tail around the center and use it like a kind of mace, from there that idea can be expanded into a similar 'dumbbell' with with lighter/thinner ends and possibly sharpened.

in effect their weapons become like an ankylosaurus' tail, with various augmentations for specific need.

>regular commodities
for clothes, dried and tanned wormskin is stretched and fitted into shape so the leech can crawl in and use it for armour/clothes.

things like forging items can be done with the dumbbell shaped tools as I said, using one with a large flat face as a hammer

>>39786472
>Then they have some bones
BONES now?

why even call them leeches? just call them lamia instead

>>39789517

No, fuck that, leeches need appendages. No one is going to take a leech that uses things like Arthur from Meet the Feebles seriously.

Honestly, we already have drawings of Hirudo with arms and they look pretty nice.
So I'm for keeping the arms personally. Sorry.

>>39789785
Yeah armed leeches is what we got

>>39789517
>tunneling
>in a swamp
>with a sizable race

>bricks
How do they get to the bricks part? How do they apply cement and layer brick at any appreciable speed.

It MIGHT be possible, yes, but it wouldn't be terribly effective, which is why I said they would be stuck at beaver dam level.


>dumbells
It's interesting as fluff, okay as a weapon, but that's not the direction Hirudo were going, and that sounds more like a Slime kind of race than a Leech.

>Forging
I don't think it would be possible to consistently swing a tool in any arc with a radius shorter than the entire length of the tail. All the muscle contracting involved would make it too tiring and inefficient.

ONLY swinging with the entire length of the tail severely limits the precision of what you can do.

Alright, so I know the Dragonflies/Drakiga are primarily water based, how about one of their ranged weapons being some kind of explosion and/or fire based one called "Dragon's Breath"? Or instead of a fire attack, it can somehow shoot out highly pressurized water, anywhere from a pressure washer to a bit less than a hydro jet in terms of power.

>>39794512
A blast of super-heated and pressurized steam?

>>39794583
That could work. Also since the Drakiga/Dragonflies live underwater, how the fuck do they forge weapons?

>>39794512
>>39794583
Steam is a good idea, but rather than a weapon, it should be some sort of spell or alchemical substance that causes water to instantly boil into vapor.
They could have a temple that relies on this substance to move water around their temple and control mechanisms with the steam.

Are the Hirudo/Miga "done"

I feel that we have the basics down

Besides mating

>>39795408
Migs are a maybe.
But if you're counting the subraces not as separate races, then no.
Hirudo are a definite no.

>>39795342
That seems interesting. Perhaps there are multiple "ways" like there is in martial arts, Way of the Steam, Way of the River, Way of the Dragon, etc.

>>39788348
How about some sort of Mantis monster for that role?

>>39795773
>>39795713
Mantis are far less terrifying than Dragonflies, and dragonflies are generally much bigger than them.

In fact, if any group would be some sort of warrior clan thing, Mantises would be right on top of my list.

>>39795884
It's just that it's a little too typical, if that is right word. If we want to have monsters, we can just have regular monsters such as dragons and such. It's just more interesting to have samurai-paladins with an actual civilization than just giant monsters.

>>39795342
>some sort of spell or alchemical substance that causes water to instantly boil into vapor.
that process would make the surrounding COLD rather than hot, since that's basically what air conditioning does.

>>39780076
They could make an interesting precusor race, one that ruled hundreds or thousands of years ago and left scattered technology and bits of interesting or unsettling architecture around but are now long gone, or confined to a single island, rusticated. The men stand on the shoreline, composed of thousands of rusting gears and broken pieces of machinery, occasionally cobbling together something but mostly just gazing into the sunlight. The women kill anyone stupid or unlucky enough to find themselves there in short order, intelligent for a few days at most after glutting but returning to their barbaric animalistic state

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Make this cute.

>>39797535
Nemetean (I think) Worm. That's its feeding trachea, notice how it slurps it all back up? That's its feeding appendage and that one is from some sea floor

>>39796799
Well then I guess it would be more useful for cooling actual steam machines rather than solely as some kind of alchemical super-fuel.

>>39797535
Hirudo wear them around their necks. They are mostly chill and pulsate/throb/undulate. As a sign of affection they will lick you with their feeding appendage.

>>39797800
I'm a little confused on what you're trying to achieve here, so I'll start from the beginning.

>Water lasers
Requires high pressure while keeping it liquid after ejection for as long as possible. Lowering the temperature of both the water and the surroundings helps with that, but you're probably better off focusing on even higher pressures and body parts/tools that can survive the forces involved.

>Steam Transportation
Completely other beast. If you want to move large quantities of water using steam through the air, you will need a way to boil and condense the water. If you don't use boilers and coolers, the place where the water boils will be very cold, while the place where the steam condenses will be very hot. You'll need radiators and fans to achieve any sort of speed.

I assume all of this is to power waterwheels for all the ancient temple machines?

>>39798032
>I assume all of this is to power waterwheels for all the ancient temple machines?
One anon just said "We need a Drakiga ranged weapon to be called 'Dragon's Breath'. It should be a flame thrower or a water jet thing." And then another said "What about pressurized steam?"
So now we're coming up with various ways to make a Drakiga ranged weapon called "Dragon's Breath" and how it's technology would fuction elsewhere.

>>39799389
pressurized water is a lot more effective than pressurized steam.

Although steam(REAL steam, not water vapor) in any large amount will melt people's faces off. The problem is just how to aim it.

>>39799389
What about temples that are mostly aquatic but with a portion above water where land-dwelling supplicants can come with offerings or requests of aid?

Maybe even caretakers that can forge their weapons and armor. Land worshipers of the Dragon and the Drakiga. Monks or something

>>39799423
The question is how they weaponize it though, not which is more effective. Although I do prefer pressurized water rather than steam.

>>39800296
When I say effective, I mean easier to produce and weaponize.

It's not like these dragonfly people live in volcanoes, right?

Oh man, I just thought of something for the Drakiga god Shuilong, or whatever the Dragon's name is. So the Drakiga god is the god of rivers or a river spirit right? Then he should be a Chinese Dragon, who typically have control over water, that has multiple heads, just like a river.

>>39800332
Trying to sleep but had idea.

Drakiga worship a Water/Lung Dragon. What if they are trained hydromancers?

Hydrokinetic water blasts or blades of water. Steam blasts, water jets, obscuring mists.

The nymphs/acolytes hone their hydromancy over the centuries and work their temples waterwheels and clockwork.

>>39799449
I do like the idea ofan amphibious temple with surfacer attendants and servants. They can forge the armor

>>39800651
GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES

>>39800666
Would they also maintain the aqueducts of larger cities?

>>39803523
Don't see why not

A while ago I had an idea for a insect race, but I never fluffed it out...would /tigi/ be interested?
They are a race of short, stocky spiderfolk. As a race they often have communities in Hollows, Underground Ruins, and abandoned dungeons. They speak their own language as well as common, and always speak just above a whisper. They are often branded reclusive, which they aren't- they will readily take in people of other races into their homes, and those who get to know them say they are very polite. So polite in fact that commonly, when underground-dwellers of the race visit aboveground cities, it is common practice that they hide their arachnid-like features, commonly by wearing suits of all-concealing, ornate heavy armor- through which only the dull blue glow of their primary eyes are seen. These armor suits are intentionally humanoid, with only one pair of arms; they force their secondary arms into ridges in the back of the suit. It begs the question if this is painful to them-but they're too polite to mention it even if it did.

would you waifu a qt3.14 shy spiderdorf gril /teegee/?

>>39804112
Also, because of where they live, aboveground they often find work as archaeologists in colleges.
didnt realize how much I said commonly until I posted it

>>39804112
>always speak just above a whisper.
why? It's rather rude when you purposely force people to make an effort just to listen to you.

>>39804729
I think it's because they dont have a great grasp of common and are self conscious about it.

>>39804112
Don't spiders have 8 arms/legs?

>>39806083
Dont leeches have no arms?
Its fantasy. If anthropomorphic spiders have six limbs, they can have six limbs. I mean, they could have 2 pairs of secondary limbs, but that'd look kibda redundant, wouldn't it?

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Hello everyone. Orginal creator of the Farapidaan here. I'm impressed by how much traction bug races are having now. I really like this thread, especially that bretty cool art of Meratsu.

If anyone has any questions, just shoot them to me.

>>39806183
Well if it mimics humanoids, they could have Primary arms, secondary arms and then two sets of legs that they can either walk quadrupedal or mimic a biped.

>>39808664
Four legs, four arms, Twp facial pedipalps