>>39295454
>Last thread the QM made everybody unhappy.
:(

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Through all the pain I'm still having Fun

>>39295454
>Last thread the QM made everybody unhappy.
Not you, Aspir. A couple of faggots did.

I still love you Aspir, even if I've gotten lazy and have no drive to finish Harrowmont's interior.

>>39295454
>Last thread the QM made everybody unhappy.

Nah, Personally I like how it went so far. Don't think everyone is unhappy. They I think so far are mostly just upset that things went badly here.

But it was stuff voted for. So I say let it stand.

>>39295534
It's all your fault, anon. All your fault.

>>39295542
Let's move on and leave that discussion behind until further deliberation from the QM on the subject.

>>39295543
I'm sorry anon. First my outer wall wasn't good enough, then they destroyed the canal district, now this. I'll just end it now.

Talon might have superhuman charisma... anons apparently do not.

>>39295534
Ya'know what we need? Other than Architect anon getting of his arse? A diplomat anon.

>>39295585
Hey I've seen some pretty good write ins for flirting and inspiring war speeches. Talon just has a specialization is all.

>>39295578
NOOOO! we still need you to design a kickass fortress to hold off Lord Ember in the West.

>>39295578
That just means you get to build it even higher now

With your plan for 15 moats surrounding a giant moat inside of a different plane of existence

To reiterate, sorry for being late today. I would like to spend a point to get her as a subordinate /nit burnt he relationship.

>>39295632
See >>39295559

>>39295602
You called anon?

>>39295602
What am I incidentally. PLANS anon?

>>39295625
Once our dominion reaches all of Harrowmont? Done. I'll bust out the z-axis for that

>>39295646
>>39295667

What are your credentials son? I'm not gonna blow smoke up your ass. We're in some deep shit.

>>39295646
>>39295667
There is no diplomat anon. Go away, pretenders.

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Okay, so I've looked over stuff and I'm still certain about the results of the vote. The reality is that in the first fifteen minutes it was solidly 'No'. That was the point I started writing - the rest of the time was me actually convincing myself to follow through and what I had decided when I made the previous update.

With that said, I feel I'd be remiss to miss a chance to delve into the insanity aspect of FR points and give people a chance to correct the mistake.

One of two options for burning an FR point: the first will involve modifying Syl's mind, though (for story reasons) she'll be willing if it means she can work for Talon. Others will notice this, even though Syl was doing so voluntarily.

The other is for Talon to screw with things normally and use an FR point to make himself act against his better judgement. Overriding his own reality, so to speak. He'll get Sylvian without the mind control but take a hit to his psyche equivalent to having 1 negative FR point.

Or you can not burn the FR point. I'm thinknig of options that still make this narratively interesting, so it's not a complete copout if it happens.

Opinions?

>>39295534
I wouldn't mind emails about things that aren't related to the keep of Harrowmont.

>>39295494
>Basically it was "I needed to prove the world I was worthy enough to have you"
I think that was a different one. Though I think that one would have angered her too (if not as badly) simply because it shows that Talon wasn't listening to her. She never wanted Talon to prove himself, because she already felt he was ready (she already offered to serve before) - saying otherwise is basically questioning her judgement quite openly.

>>39295612
Anons are good with certain character types. They're bad when pushed - the meeting with Ren got awfully close to him storming out and ending negotiations.

>>39295688
I'd like to see what negative FR will mean. I also like Sylvian submitting this way to Talon.

I say flip a coin and go with the result.

>>39295688
The second I think

>>39295688
I am totally fine with option two for the FR point

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>>39295678
>z-axis

You've gone too far

Someone control this madman before it's too late

>>39295688
First because literally nothing can go wrong with this option

>>39295688
Go for the mindrape option anons. I think that would be an interesting consequence and it wouldn't impair Talons sanity while giving an interesting flaw for people to notice.

>>39295688
First, but I admit the second sounds very attractive.

>>39295688
Mind rape her, Im not usually one to do this but I'm tired of this shit. Tired of doing things to avoid shit like last thread only to still get force fed a shit sandwhich like I wanted it.

burn FR and do it to Syl

>>39295688
>The other is for Talon to screw with things normally and use an FR point to make himself act against his better judgement. Overriding his own reality, so to speak. He'll get Sylvian without the mind control but take a hit to his psyche equivalent to having 1 negative FR point.
that one sounds quite interesting.

>One of two options for burning an FR point: the first will involve modifying Syl's mind, though (for story reasons) she'll be willing if it means she can work for Talon. Others will notice this, even though Syl was doing so voluntarily.
why in the world would she even agree to such a thing?

>>39295734
To go into more detail I kind of see Talons astral power as being more "I will change you." Then something like sanity damaging himself for a someone.

It also leaves a interesting situation that Talon will have to think about later on and how to avoid it. Which is much better then going slightly insane. At least that's my opinion

>>39295679
>What are your credentials son? I'm not gonna blow smoke up your ass. We're in some deep shit.
AA are me. Most of the R&D doc is me. the Character Doc is me. Roughly 1/3rd of the battleplans are me. Most political proposals are me, though you lot frequently modify them. I think I also redesigned the vetrency system last week. Also, when I mentioned that I felt less bad about emailing him he instantly knew it was me.

>>39295688
Mind alteration I would say. Not willing to get insanity due to anon's fucking up.

(though I am scared of the consequences nonetheless)

>>39295688
Honestly I thought that was a good chance for him to learn humility and say yes so I'm kinda bias.

tl;dr I don't know first sounds terrible

>>39295688
Even though I really think we shouldn't. I'll accept the second option of Talon fucking with his own reality. I just don't like don't this.

>I wouldn't mind emails about things that aren't related to the keep of Harrowmont

I actually owe you about three emails now. One detailing the moat expansion with dimensions for the next numbers thread. Another for a small Keep for Lancaster I threw together. And another for the island stuff I've been working on. I'll try to get something to you soon.

>>39295688
While I'm firmly in the camp that wants her around and on our side, wouldn't mind the option that makes things narratively interesting if it still reconciled things and would prefer something like that over raw reshaping of reality. If we spend the FR though lets delve into the depths of insanity of Talon having to literally alter reality to get over his own arrogance and deal with the after effects of that. Either of those sound good to me story wise.

>>39295688
>Others will notice this, even though Syl was doing so voluntarily.
no, please no.

also this one better be a contentious vote

>>39295767
Now that's all well and nice, and I truly appreciate what you've done for our establishment. But I don't see a record of dealing with interpersonal relationships in that list of your's, and I think that we currently need someone more in that line of work.

>>39295688
I like option one.

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FR POINT VOTE
You have 4 FR points.

OPTION ONE
Use an FR point to convince Syl to stay behind. This will carry long-lasting consequences (as per >>39295688) which will be decided upon in a subsequent vote.

OPTION TWO
Don't use an FR point. This means Sylvian leaves to guard the Barrier of Marie for the foreseeable future of the quest.

Rules for voting are to make a post with a link to my post declaring the vote and the number you are voting for. No other text, no greentexting the number. All informal votes will be discarded. Voting window will be five minutes after the first vote.

>>39295786
For what it's worth, he does tend to have a decent grasp of the characters (if I correctly pick him most of the time). The trick is getting everybody else on board, which failed with the 'don't question her trust' part.

>>39295767
>TFW remembering I came up with the batshit insane blitz plan and it worked

What a beautiful day that was.

>>39295809
1

>>39295809
1

>>39295809
1

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>>39295809
Actually, no, this will be a Fate Point, not an FR point. I won't say the number of these you have, but you will still have at least one after this decision.

>>39295809
1

>>39295809
1

>>39295688
Burn use option 1

>>39295809
2

>>39295809
1

>>39295809
1

>>39295809
1

>>39295784
Yeah, anyone that can notice that sort of thing will be powerful and I'd really rather not have them be pissed at us or at least super wary of mind rape over this. Especially if those close to us sense it.

>>39295837
Woah now! That changes everything

>>39295786
Well, I was auditioning for PLANS anon, not diplomat anon. Also, THE PLAN is my plan, so I think I'm automatically qualified

>>39295809
2

>>39295688
1

>>39295809
1

>>39295454
Bradley, is that you?

>>39295809
1

>>39295809
1

>>39295809
1

>>39295864
We just got 5 male dragons. Tell me anon. How does it feel to know THEPLAN.PNG may soon happen?

>>39295809
>1

>>39295837
What?

>>39295837
wait, I thought fate points were literally the lives of our companions?

>>39295837
But don't fate points imply the loss of something else to fix something? That's a pretty big deal, I don't want that

>>39295837
Aren't those DRASTICALLY more important? Syl can fuck right off if she's just gonna chill somewhere else till later in that case.

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>>39295914
>>39295931
>>39295931
No, Fate Points are just points you have available (that I track on my end) that have dire consequences if you use them to avoid a problem that couldn't be avoided with an FR point. I figured that partial insanity or having to do magical mental damage to an ally counts perfectly. I gave an example ages ago about a Fate Point being burnt to prevent Alyce from breaking ties, for instance.

In other words, the consequences stay the same but you don't burn an FR point because this isn't an FR point situation.

>>39295861
Nah it doesn't this shit sandwhich will be the end of the quest one way or another.
>>39295914
Thats just one way they can manifest, its case by case. Its like someone who would have died we use the point and instead of them dying they might get horribly wounded and develop some heavy PTSD or lose an arm or something.

>>39295786
There is always me anon. I've only voted for bad personal decisions about twice or so. On the unbright side I tend to be shit at first reading.

;_;

>>39295901
>We just got 5 male dragons.
not all the dragons were male. we have females in our army and in fact one of the ones who went on their own was confirmed female (our former aide)

>>39295914
That's in combat, out of combat it can be other things like a vast amount of respect lost and other stuff at least if the pastebin is still accurate.

>>39295931
The example for Fate Points for social encounters is major screw ups like pissing off the Arch Angel this fits what they were always there for.

>>39295949
question, would the mental damage to either ever be recoverable? or are we looking at permanent damage?

>>39295901
pretty good.

>>39295949
Ah I got you. I figured they fit here with what was written anyway but good to know that the drawbacks are up front in this case.

>>39295984
>out of combat it can be other things like a vast amount of respect lost
I am pretty sure that would be the result if we choose the "modify her mind" option

>>39295988
Want to know this too before voting

I can't help but feel dirty about this decision. I don't know, just doesn't feel right to me. I don't think I'll quit the quest, but I've lost some interest knowing that everything can be fixed and nothing goes wrong. Even if they do have noted consequences. Maybe, we'll see next week.

>>39295837
I only now noticed this change after I voted.

>>39296041
It would also lead to others noticing and thinking we did it Straight out. I like that option though because unlike insanity it is a flaw Talon can notice and try to overcome though being sneaky.

Insanity becomes a part of you. So it isn't as interesting because it removes that it happened at all and instead we have a warped Talon.

>>39296055
>Literally causing brain damage
>Not a consequence

Dawg that is worse then just letting her go in some ways.

>>39295809
>>39295837
I honestly think that for such a major vote we should really have everyone calm down first. Maybe wait a week before voting if we are doing something so drastic

>>39296055
You mean like how we did shit to prevent this whole fucking mess and still got "TRUST ME SAY IT". I'd say thats firmly in the not everything can be fixed section.

>>39296091
>This will carry long-lasting consequences (as per >>39295688 #) which will be decided upon in a subsequent vote.
>decided upon in a subsequent vote.

>>39296096
I actually really agree with this.

>>39296091
>Dawg that is worse then just letting her go in some ways.
yea
especially because if she left she would not actually fight US, she would instead set her ass up in the wall fighting shadow beasts.

mmm, i wonder if we could encounter her there while talon is doing a stint there himself. "what, I told you the shadow beasts were important"

>>39296096
We already know the consequences though. So I doubt anything would change especially given that we have some decent fate points at this point. now if it was just straight up blind no idea what would happen I would agree in someways.

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>>39295988
Not for a long, long time. It also might not be desirable for her.

>1.

After spending almost an hour in your chair, replaying the events of tonight over and over in your mind you still don’t quite understand what went wrong. You feel that you and Sylvian have intrinsic problems – for all that the two of you could use another to further each other’s goals you keep ramming into each other. The sort of person that each of you wants is different to what you’re getting, and you don’t see how it can work.

You still have to try, though.

It turns out that Sylvian hadn’t completely left, and had instead chosen to linger deep below near the Source Vault. It seems clear that she wanted you to chase her, but you don’t see how you could make things better. As she looks at you, her eyes full of loss, it’s apparent that she doesn’t understand either.

“I don’t think it can work, Talon,” she says. “I’ve said it before, that you have the potential to achieve what I couldn’t. I just… I want to be part of that but I know we’ll just fail each other. I’ve changed too much from when I was young – I can’t simply abide by decisions I think are wrong. And you hold too much to your own strength – even to the extent you might fail yourself.”

>continued

>>39296130
I said calm down not learn more.
People are all very emotional right now, I know I am.

>>39296127
Yeah. Though fundamentally I kind of like this. Because it adds some dramatics what does Talons allies do? How does Talon respond to what happens?

Her leaving is interesting but I like these consequences and how it can play out. it makes things feel personal for Talon and the consequences will be right there.

>>39296114
Yeah but it's being fixed, by burning a fate point. Sure it's fucked up how, but it's fixing something that has been a long term issue by outright manipulating someone into an easier to deal with character so we can reach status quo again and nothing go wrong.

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>>39296166
You remain silent as she turns away from you in her speech, her silver hair seeming to glow in the soft torchlight. Corrfax is watching from his perch nearby, aware that something is wrong and keeping the Source protected as is his duty. You can’t hear anything beyond the crackling of flames and the soft bell of Sylvian’s voice.

“Do you think you can make it work, Talon? You can change things. It would be better to be what I once was. If you could make me into the forthright captain I once was, so that I have to remember all the times I’ve made the wrong decision,’ she says. “Which is every one. Act too soon, and you see all your loyal followers die. Act too late, and you only see ruins where you should have seen villages. Act not at all, and see it all fall apart around you. Talon? Can you make it work?”

Maybe, you think. You want things to be right but you feel that Syl is simply airing her desperation. You can’t possibly understand her thoughts – you don’t have her experiences or her fears. All you have is yourself. Your unyielding self – and perhaps it’s that unyielding aspect of yourself that’s need to change. Unbending arrogance may end you, just as it’s ending Fenix’s own ambitions right now. Do you care to pay the price or should Sylvian?

>contentious vote incoming

And people being emotional kind of works with the scene, in my opinion.

>>39296198
Fuck

>>39296198
Fuck man. My hands are trembling.

>>39296198
holy shit my emotions!
I feel like crying.

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CONTENTIOUS VOTE

OPTION ONE
Modify Syl's mind as she's requested. Return her to the more pliable captain persona she held long ago, before centuries of leadership, death and torture piled up on her mind and emotions. Others may notice this and you can try to explain it, but people will still react in their own way to this news (i.e. mental manipulation is not an easy thing to justify).

OPTION TWO
Bend Talon's reality so that he can pliable enough to work with Sylvian. This will prevent the constant difficult situations between the two of you and similar personality types from being as problematic. You will cause lasting mental harm to yourself, however, which may manifest in a troubling manner - your astral powers rely on your mental state, after all.

Rules for voting are to make a post with a link to my post declaring the vote and the number you are voting for. No other text, no greentexting the number. All informal votes will be discarded. Voting window will be five minutes after the first vote.

I mean Talon ditching his arrogance would fix a lot of problems we have with other characters. Lock it away with the Other.

>>39296264
1

>>39296264
2

>>39296264
1

>>39296264
I can't decide.

>>39296264
2

This feels like bad end and worse end. I dunno guys, I think I'm out.

I can't help but think AEQ would work better as a book than a quest.

>>39296264
2

>>39296264
1

>>39296166
>Not for a long, long time. It also might not be desirable for her.
what about talon's damage? would he be fixable?
... i imagine going balance here might help

>>39296264
2

>>39296264
2

>>39296264
2

>>39296305
The only bad end here is...well, neither, but changing Talon's mind is riskier than Sylvian's.

>>39296264
1

>>39296264
1

>>39296276
Yeah but that's what makes it boring to me. I like how Talons arrogance leads to problems. That is an interesting trait.

Compare it to having to try and justify doing mind manipulation. That's something that creates conflict and gives Talon something to think about.

"Did I do the right thing?"

Is much more interesting then ripping a part of your own self out.

>>39296264
2

>>39296264
1

>>39296264
1

>>39296264
Does 2 actually do anything? Are you going to give us a cheatsheat when we talk to people or is anon not understanding shit still going to fuck us over?

>>39296264
1

>>39296264
1

>>39296264
>1

>>39296340
don't we already kinda do that to all the familiars?

>>39296276
That's self-crippling, however, and reduces control over the main character.

On the other hand, Sylvian has asked for help to submit to Talon, so it is fair.

>>39296362
Minor/Moderate insanity just like if we go into negative FR. We haven't seen the mechanics for it yet.

>>39296264
1

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>>39296264
2

>>39296264
1

>>39296391
>On the other hand, Sylvian has asked for help to submit to Talon, so it is fair.

That is fucking scary to me that people think like that.

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>>39296371
Last vote that counts.

1 wins.

I'll write up the post plus a little blurb now.

>>39296362
I would assume it colours our conversations. Remember when we got frustrated with Raph sitting on our throne? It would likely play out differently if our ego been toned down.

>>39296387
Nah, That's more a heightening of their normal traits. Something that just naturally happens compared to this. Which is something Talon would have to think about and wonder.

It's also something he can't really escape from unlike changing himself which then becomes his new self.

>>39296395
No he said it would make it easier to deal with her and others like her.

>>39296420
So will she be losing out on her experience as well or is the change strictly related to her personality?

>>39296427
To be fair that was one of the best reactions Aspir has ever given us. Raphael's complete lack of fucks given is hysterical to me

>>39296446
And that might be what the insanity is connected to. Like us losing slight control over decisions when talking to that type of personality. Just have to wait until he tells us the mechanics for negative FR.

>>39296460
yea, it was pretty awesome

I think what freaks me out the most is Syl is going to basically forget her failures and by extension her growth as a person. She's literally losing years of herself to submit. And we have no idea if that young captain is prone to those mistakes again.

>>39296460
IT honestly felt more like "...What the fuck is this guy saying?" To me.

>>39296455
Hopefully it will not cripple the character

So with this decision we're about to go balls deep into the Guard Conflict huh?

>>39296544
We shoulda done it sooner and avoided this whole fucking thing.

>>39296544
Well, we are going balls deep into Sylvian. So that's a yes.

>>39296460
Raph is likely to be super fucking pissed about this. She was probably the closest mortal ally he had due to her experience and power dealing with realm threats. Then again I think he may be hiding something anyway.

>>39296556
Balls deep in her brain?

>>39296544
>get invaded by infernals
>kill demon prince
>butt heads with heldragon
>mind rape her and invade her country

Logical progression.

God, I left for a few hours...and come back to see this shit go full retard.

>Yeah let's make an alliance, set things straight with the Mage Guard
>shit happens
>Sylvian: "YO I HEARD THERE WAS TROUBLE SO I CAME AS FAST AS I COULD"
>Nah bitch i dont want your help, im a strong independent astral being who dun need no dragon
>"then what the fuck you want an alliance for"
>nah, fuck that, deal's off

what the fuck is going on in here

>>39296455
If it is what I think it is she's going to remember all the times she "thinks" she fucked up yet being a completely different person.

It's weird

>>39296599
Schizophrenia.

>>39296420
Honestly, on reflection i think the more interesting write in would have been "I don't need a pliable captain, or someone to finish of a 3rd rate demon horde. I trust you with the hardest job of all. To kill me without warning if I start to follow embers path."
Telling her to literally be our fail-safe would have had fun long term consequences as well.

>>39296613
this

>>39296166
>you have the potential to achieve what I couldn’t. I just… I want to be part of that but I know we’ll just fail each other. I’ve changed too much from when I was young – I can’t simply abide by decisions I think are wrong.
I had this funny image of Sylvian making [angry dragon noises] everytime something doesn't go her way.

>>39296613
... Jesus Christ at the end of this someone finally comes through with something I agree with

>>39296599
Look your not the only one upset at this point it is what it is. Can we just move on without bringing this argument up again?

>>39296613
Raph already mentioned that it's unlikely to have that happen unless he screwed his own psyche up enough to make it happen. It's also a little long term.

>>39296613
Hindsight and all that.

>>39296613
Oh my god I love this.

>>39296644
The problem is it would be empty words. With our track record with her we'd flip on that the second it comes up again.

Just a reminder. We won't get an FR point for banging that now. Hope you're all happy with yourselves.

>>39296613
>>39296613
>propose a sensible solution that makes everyone happy at the end when its too late
fucking blackwater never stops trolling

>>39296613
If only you had this reflection earlier.

>>39296672
With our track record something half the players thought sounded really good would be the exact wrong thing to say and ruin everything.

>>39296698
Quests in a nutshell

>>39296711
Seems particularly true in this one though.

>>39296613
Do agree with this. Little late though now but, at least something though. Right?

>>39296734
>Little late though now
maybe aspir will allow it still?
although truly i am not sure it will even work

>>39296698
With our track record, we need Aspie to stop and go guys if you pick X you're actually saying Y are you sure?

Then que everyone going "OH no thats not what we wanted to say. Not even close"

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>1.

As you listen to Sylvian speak of her time over the last few centuries, you battle with yourself. Her words are so heartfelt, you feel. Her failure to convince you to trust her, in her mind, seems to have been the straw that broke the camel’s back and her she is, unravelling in your hands. She speaks of the men and women she’s known, and how they’ve all died in her service. Shadowbeasts, god-knights, rogue mages, spirit beasts… the list of terrors that all of her faithful had fallen to. Those that hadn’t had left her, at least in her mind. To be a dragon that lives a thousand years in a world of humans that fall short of a hundred left her with an emotional stubbornness that rivals nothing else.

Before now, you would have called it ‘emotional resilience’. That’s what you thought of it, as you brushed aside the slaughter you’ve overseen and suffered. The difference is, you actually are resilient – something in you makes it like water off a duck’s back. With Sylvian, it formed her wall but a wall that moaned plaintive wails and nightmares would not truly keep you safe.

You held your arms open and she stepped into them, her head nestling under your chin. She mumbles words against your chest but you don’t hear them. All you hear is the voice in your own head telling you what you must do – the Other seems to know, and you let it guide you. It’s different to before, where you instinctively see the future and draw on more power. There is… something else that shapes this world. Something you are glad you don’t have to touch. You let the Other do the heavy lifting while you stroke Sylvian’s hair and hope you are doing the right thing.

>continued

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>>39296756
It’s quiet for several minutes, her voice having ceased.

A click on the tiles signals her return to reality, as Sylvian blinks away what must be centuries of mental torment. You don’t think she’s truly forgotten, but rather than the vivid memories of death and failure she’s been haunted by they become like books, as if she was merely reading of the experiences of another. And this particular memory… becomes like dust.

She looks at you and gives you a sharp smile that you don’t completely recognise, “Talon, I’m looking forward to serving you. I hope to help you as much as you’ve helped me.”

>That’s the thread

Sylvian is more or less herself, but her personality will be more like, say, Gnome’s – she’ll have experience and opinions but she’ll shut up and get in line when you say so. The fact that you’ve screwed with her mind is penalty enough without needing to cripple her after all this.

As for the thread, I will first say this isn’t what I intended. I don’t preplan all that much, and when I do I think it’s quite obvious. In this case, a mixture of the choices made and the write-ins chosen wound up with a very poor result – combined with the fact that she was already low on trust as it was. Even this scene at the end and the idea of using a Fate Point this way was a last second thing, as I wanted something that would make the story as interesting as her leaving without necessarily having her leave. I’m satisfied from a story point of view on that.

>continued

>>39296685
The problem wasn't Talon losing it though but Talon and her thinking on different scaling. Him viewing her as doing better where he thinks she is most useful. While her wanting to be with him whenever he has a problem just in case he was wrong and he couldn't handle it.

That really wouldn't solve anything because he would still smash heads with her when he would rather be too risky for her. That was the core problem as I see it.

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>>39296768
With that said, as with other problems that have cropped up I can understand that people are upset. I remember a long time ago when somebody said they were going to drop the quest because the combat wasn’t hard enough (paraphrased). This was because I’d outright stated that there was a safety net on combat between FR points, Fate Points and the general narrative. The reality is that I try to stick with the story and the characters as it is, while trying to keep it interesting. You guys like to make choices I never would, which pushes the story in a direction I didn’t plan on.

Somebody said that AEQ should be a book, to which I disagree (even though I feel my writing is more like a book nowadays). I would never have written a lot of the things that have happened in the quest if I was writing a book, because the choices Talon would make would be vastly different. With that said, I also understand if people feel that this thread has made things less entertaining to them. The whole point of reading and running a quest is entertainment, after all.

Next thread on the 18th April at 7pm EDT. I won’t be back to respond for a few hours, sadly. I will read all the feedback and comments, however.

Thank you to everybody who participated.

>>39296778
Hell Aspir I had a 12 hour shift today at work and this was the most fun I've had all day. I would have never expected this to happen and it shows how good of a writer you are that this effected me emotionally.

I'm not sure how I feel. I just wanted more time with Rex to discuss Dragon Engineering.

>>39296778
Thanks Aspie. This was quite a ride.

>>39296768
I like this ending. Feels so chilling.

>>39296778
Thanks for running. It's a shame we didn't get to go through Sylvian's character arc in a smoother manner but here's hoping there will be interesting stories with her all the same.

As much as I hated dealing with Sylvian, I feel like this completely killed any interest I had in having her as a companion. And now probably everyone we talk to is going to distrust us.

I'm not sure if there was any way for Aspir to make this not suck, but I don't like how this turned out.

>>39296778
While much of it made me feel frustrated I did enjoy myself a lot. Still my favorite quest to read on all my breaks at my job. I work in 3 hours at a coffee shop and this and every other thread has been worth it (maybe not numbers threads).

>>39296859
>I'm not sure if there was any way for Aspir to make this not suck
It already doesn't suck. I'm looking forward to the fallout in quest.

>>39296873
I'm already picturing Talon crying and punching the ground.
It's delicious.

>>39296873
Speaking of which we need to watch for Taira here. she takes her oaths seriously and she might feel like she is being replaced here.

>>39296890
Inb4 this effects Talon's mental state anyway.

>>39296768
>Sylvian is more or less herself, but her personality will be more like, say, Gnome’s – she’ll have experience and opinions but she’ll shut up and get in line when you say so. The fact that you’ve screwed with her mind is penalty enough without needing to cripple her after all this.

You know, I was pretty mad about this whole thing and didn't think it was going to be salvageable but, I feel like this works. Its bitter sweet, it was a really shitty way to get here but, he tore away a bunch of emotional burden from her mind and now she follows him around and every time he sees her, he will remember what he did and have to live with it, not only that he will have to deal with others who disagree with his choice and it will tear at him for a while to come.

Even if people notice, we don't have to outright admit what we did

>>39296913
yea, I am very emotional over this but... that was very well executed

>>39296918
So lie to both the world and ourselves. Christ this is going to get dark soon.

>>39296930
Yeah, I'm not overly fond of the turn into darkness the quest might be taking.
But 'might be' is not the same as 'is', so I'll watch and wait.

>>39296918
Or just lie and compare it to a familiar contract and say the Astral nature makes the changes faster

>>39296890
Personally I kind of want to play it like how he did the Fae blessed.

"I'll have to go on from this." Only with more "But am I really sure this was right?" Not crying in public but a kind of stalwart resolution it was the right thing to do but with a little nagging doubt that plagues him sometimes.

>>39296859
I can feel where your coming from yet at the same time I liked having to deal with people that challenged Talon on top of the thought I had that this was a chance for him to change I agree that it lessened some of the interest I had in her character.

All in all it's shitty yeah but I can deal with it I guess

>>39296930
>Finally conquer Gauron
>Should be happy and celebrating
>Not happy and decide to drink myself silly
>Finn walks in on me drunk as fuck
>He is an old man now and his life has been full of bloodshed and misery
>He still loves me anyway
>Unload all my issues on him
>His elven wisdom is grand and priceless now
>I realize it was the people I was conquering with that made it special
>I mind fucked most of them to help me conquer
fug

>>39296992
>I mind fucked most of them to help me conquer
Not quite.

>>39297014
Yeah I very much doubt this will be a common thing at all.

>>39296965
It's somewhat odd everyone expects this to eat Talon alive from the inside out. I can see some nagging worry about the moral repercussions of it, but Sylvian literally asking him to do it cuts a whole lot of that down. Maybe its just that I can empathize with a person that wants to get rid of what they've become and become what they consider a better person, via mind magic or otherwise. Dealing with the fallout of other characters not being able to trust Talon or Sylvian's word on the matter and being uncomfortable with the implications he can rewrite a persons mind is another matter though. That I can see being a source of plenty of drama and conflict in the future.

>>39297014
Eh, it could be argued that that's what you do with Familiars, which would bring the total up to five personally, and another three bound to allies.

Well... I think I'm going to quit. I've enjoyed the quest, and will probably archive binge from time to time. But not actively participate anymore. I know you didn't want this to feel like a copout Aspirational but it still did to me and I can't help but think if this had happened in the earlier threads you would have stuck by the vote.

Regardless. Had fun. I just don't like to see things being bent like this for the sake of the making the MC all powerful especially after having a discussion thread worrying about power bloat.

Best of luck man.

>>39297033
Yeah I agree there. This I don't think would lead to a melodramatic crying about how things are wrong while slamming fists into the wall situation.

I think inherently his mind is too strong to let something like that cause that. Instead I feel it would be more whispering doubts about maybe he should have went the other way or just walked away. Something subtle.

On the other hand I'm not sure how the others will view this in comparison. Which can lead to some mighty fine pain and cut into that doubt.

>>39297044
It couldn't. They are too different for this.

>>39297054
>All powerful
>Couldn't save the fae blessed
>Couldn't see though a foxes illusion.
>Couldn't get along with a helldragon without leading to mindrape to do it.
>Almost lost one of his most powerful allies due to pissing him off.
>Has gotten the shit beat out of him so hard he passes out for days on end.
>Couldn't defeat blackwater.
>Made mistakes at a lot of his sieges and had to be bailed out by Taira during the combat Magister battle.

Talons far from all powerful. Especially considering how deep of a hole he just dug himself into now.

>>39297054
I'm also probably going to quit, though for different reasons.
In my case, it's a mixture of dissatisfaction with the homogenization/shallowness of characters (caused by bloat) and the events of this thread wrecking my immersion and emotional attachment.

Wish you all plenty of fun with the rest of the quest.

>>39297079
Different to this, but they're both mind-altering effects.

>>39297074
I feel Alyce is definitely going to have something I say especially seeing how last thread she said
>I also gained a little more insight into Sylvian

Other than that off the top of my head I feel Raph, Undine maybe, foxes, and other dragons, also Mal

>>39297146
I'm not sure with Ralph. He seems the type who tends to let things bounce off if it isn't about the barrier.

Undine most definitely and Mal almost assuredly.

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>>39296778
>I also understand if people feel that this thread has made things less entertaining to them
Good

>>39296778
>this thread made things less entertaining
I mean, was this thread less entertaining than most? Yeah. Did it make the quest in general less entertaining? Not by a longshot, aspie. I'm expecting some reasonable consequences for our sylvian mindfuckery and that's that, but all in all this was just a very very contentious thread that was bound to happen b.c of how fucked we've been with dealing with sylvian.
also... Did Carl get to see that whole retinue arriving? what was his response if so

Hmm.
Personally I think this was resolved rather well, from a narrative perspective.
Certainly, it's still incredibly frustrating to wake up to Anons ruining everything again after being unable to participate, but that's largely not something that can be avoided when I can only afford to participate when my sleep schedule allows me to skip sleep frome saturday to sunday.
If anons are going to fuck up majorly, which isn't really avoidable in something run by committee without excessive amounts of handhilding, I'd prefer for the result to be narratively satisfying at least.

I can't say for sure how it feels for those who were participating, but this kind of stuff helps rein in helpless fury at anons for being horrible at decisionmaking and replaces it with the enjoyable kind of tension you get from reading the protagonist fail, when you're catching up with the thread after everything's over.

I do have to wonder whether it's sensible to preceed these kind of decisions with a pretty direct blurb about what kind of character for example Sylvian is and remind people of what her major beef with Talon is.
Would probably be a bit too close to handholding, but it might work if limited to things directly stated earlier or IC information and I do feel something to stop Anons from going full retard during contentious votes on critical matter makes a lot of sense.
Anons voting for stuff because they've been riled up enough to miss or forget the blindingly obvious are easy to mistake for anons actively wishing to terminate the relationship with Sylvian after all and contentious votes (and fast moving threads in general) are pretty difficult times for making reminders like these visible if you're not the GM.

39294705

Holy fuck, people said no there. How goddamn stupid can people be? Fuck you.

>>39298173
And then we just use our powers to mindbend her into submission. I am more upset with this tham I am with causing her to leave.

She should've been gone if we fucked it up enough to make her leave.

Seriously. What the fuck..

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>>39297584
>very very contentious thread that was bound to happen b.c of how fucked we've been with dealing with sylvian.
This honestly feels like an extension of the previous thread where Sylvian got annoyed from bad decisions. When that happened I had to face up to whether bother trying to continue with the content-heavy discussion/confrontation scenes, given that they produced massive amounts of angst from everybody (which couldn't simply be blamed on dice like happens in combat).

I made a decision then to continue with it, because the alternative was to basically strip diplomacy and character interaction back to just the SoL elements and a civ-like, which didn't satisfy me. We wound up here and I'm not too surprised, if still a little disappointed at the way a lot of people misread things and still got upset over how things happened.

>>39297144
>homogenization/shallowness of characters (caused by bloat)
Given that Sylvian was one of the more complex characters in the quest (despite being relatively straightforward) and that's produced nothing but angst as everybody thinks she's unstable, I'm not sure it's really worth having everybody being that deep.

>>39296960
The quest got pretty dark during the Farun trip and bounced back pretty easily. It got dark like this because that's how the subject matter needs to be handled - I don't want this to be treated like an everyday thing.

And precisely because it's not an everyday thing it's not going to become some focal point of the quest. It will cause problems, but not in a spiral of destruction type of way.

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>>39297054
>I know you didn't want this to feel like a copout Aspirational but it still did to me and I can't help but think if this had happened in the earlier threads you would have stuck by the vote.
I didn't explain this properly earlier, but I felt that offering the use of a Fate Point I was making the difficulty of the diplomatic elements match the combat side more. You can spend FR points when things go horribly wrong there, after all.

In any case, this may or may not have happened in earlier threads. I probably wouldn't have felt willing to even broach the idea of mental manipulation of a major character back then. I also feel there would have been less outright hostility and contrarianism from all the players in the past - that's been increasing steadily of late, too.

In the end, offering the choice to keep Syl via the Fate Point simply pissed off a different batch of players. If I'd had her stick around without any fuss, there would have been a bunch of people complaining about her emotional instability and how the can was just kicked down the road. If I'd let her go, the same 'trap option' nonsense would continue be spouted. Keeping her now has people saying it's all a copout. Maybe it is, but if it works narratively then I'm fine with it. Given the lack of long-term player-driven plans of late, it doesn't hurt to make some of my own driving drama.

In the end, I'll continue running the quest for those still interested in playing it, for as long as they're actively interested in playing it. I'm here to entertain myself and those who want to be entertained by me and that's as much about the story as the quest mechanics (because they always produce angst, simply via voting).

>>39298329
We have been trying, and failing miserably for quite a long while to get Sylvian on our side as a subordinate. At every point, things got worse. You've said, and showed within the story, that we have made the wrong decision regarding Sylvian, pretty much every time. Things got to the point where the thread would break and she woul leave. Having Talon play with her mind to get her on line after making the worst possible choices was the worst decision you have ever made in this quest in my opinion Aspi.

It frustrated me but she gave flavor to the story regardless. Now it just feels cheap.

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Forgot to address one thing.

>>39297054
>especially after having a discussion thread worrying about power bloat.
Except Sylvian was already included in those worries so it wasn't a huge issue. Honestly, losing Sylvian was completely unexpected. Dealing with power bloat is simply going to happen by changing the quest up after the timeskip. Who and what you're fighting is becoming to become bigger and more dangerous - Sylvian's power would have been a bigger issue if I wasn't going to just change everything up anyway.

>>39298392
>that's been increasing steadily of late, too.
I think this is actually a consequence of how much everyone likes the quest - we're all emotionally invested.
Still, though, I'll reiterate my position from one of the previous threads: there's very little you could do to make me leave, especially after 70 threads.
I'd appreciate it if you stopped running when I'm supposed to be asleep, though. Ya cunt.

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>>39298403
this

So Aspie, despite all the naysayers here, I greatly enjoyed the show and particularly liked how intense this was.

Thank you, and please keep on going.

So anyone around for some discussion time? I'm not with my laptop right now so I can't draft anything up but I wouldn't mind some input.

Basically after the moat expansion we have a handful of directions to go in for further development of Harrowmont.

Namely:
>go full dorf and build into the cliff facings
This could be either in don't like we did with the Imperial Academy and cutting chunks out and building on the new plane to creating a massive dwarf esque citadel underground.

>building on top of the cliff facings as is
This may involve some terraforming, potentially new walls, or maybe even employing a greater extent of the 'shield bubble' that Shropham uses. I'm not too sure how we go about this one as the area will be wide open.

>expand beyond the moat into the rocky hills below
Likely a lot of terraforming to place things on the ground. Also involve some making on Aspirational and I's end to construct something that works with the terrain. I've also spoke of creating a sort ring wall around the area with small forts that are Shropham inspired built into it. This would likely be a huge expense but damn it would it look cool.

I'm open for other ideas, or directions. I might just make all three and we'll have some meat to discuss unless a clear favorite pops up.

Also, I can answer about other construction ideas limited to new things. I'm not about to redesign cities. But innovating new designs for forts is if interest to me as well. As is what we do for the island colony.

>>39298329
>Given that Sylvian was one of the more complex characters in the quest (despite being relatively straightforward) and that's produced nothing but angst as everybody thinks she's unstable, I'm not sure it's really worth having everybody being that deep.
Speaking honestly, I would have much preferred her being kept as she was. I liked old Syl largely because she didn't take Talon's shit.

>>39301448
dorf

>>39298279
but we didn't mindbend her into submission.
we helped her forget some specific memories that she specifically request for us to help her forget.
Not instill a compulsion to obey talon.
this is part of what makes it so emotional, if it was a simple mindrape then I would like to think that people would have gone for the "talon takes the hit" route (especially since it would help us with a few other strong characters)
but then she revealed what was asked of us and it was a blow right in the feels.

>>39302013
Well that's one vote for dorf.

Personally I've been leaning that way as well. And from past emails I'm pretty sure Aspirational is as well. In fact I've commented before that if it wasn't for me taking over this stuff half of Harrowmont would probably already be in the cliff facings from his doing. Haha But the idea has a lot of potential and unique ways to go about it.

For one mages prefer to use circles in their construction, as magic is what let's them build perfect circles and giant not-phallic-at-all towers. For that reason I included a lot of circles in the Imperial Academy design, and Shropham as well. However dwarves in this setting at least I'm not too sure of, in my head the typical dwarfen stylings are still preferred which is generally blocky, imposing, grand scaled. The vaulted ceilings of the Keep to me are actually more dwarven in make as they have a high tendency to play with light and shadow, both something used to enhance the visual even more so for something underground.

So what that all means is I need to find a way to marry those two ideas into what I'm calling the citadel expansion for now. While also avoiding the trappings of underground settlements and the "layer effect" with regards to class.

I'm late and I don't want to stir up any more shit, but I think the problem with Syl was that most of the players (read, nearly all) just didn't understand her as a person. They misinterpreted or jumped to conclusions and made her out to be someone other than who she was. Some just didn't like her because they thought she was bitchy, she was just stubborn, and the only way to really deal with stubborn people is to be patient (something else most anons simply aren't, it seems). People thought she was rude, but honestly she acted a bit like typical crotchety old people, after living so long she would think others would have poor judgement, that's natural, people took it the wrong way. Anons consistently approached the situation from the wrong direction when all they really needed to do was "yeah, you're probably right, but I felt like this was necessary." not flat out tell her "no, you're wrong, this was the best way to do it." and honestly, with how we make decisions, a bit of reflection on how we tend to fuck up and admitting that should have been in order.

I think backtracking and doing anything to get her on our side should have been out of the question. I also think Aspie should have recognized that we were shit at dealing with Sylvain and made things just a bit more clear with us because we always fucked up with her. I'm not asking for him to have said "This will fuck you, guys." but a nice "are you sure?" would have been great.

Anyway, that's all I got, peace.

>>39303030
>I also think Aspie should have recognized that we were shit at dealing with Sylvain and made things just a bit more clear with us because we always fucked up with her
He did. He stated the core of her personality more than once. He isn't to blame for the players fucking up repeatedly.

>>39303060
No I get that, but people dont read, I meant with the choices.

Most people seem to have the attention span of a guppy and forget what they are dealing with or doing. But or social encounters it is absolutely pivotal that people know what they are doing and you cant count on anons to do that, which is sad. Plus I am absolutely certain some of the anons were just beings dicks.

>>39303109
Well, anons being dicks is inevitable. It's hard to differentiate between them and those who were letting their dislike of Sylvain show too much, though.
Still, the thing about quests on /tg/ is that you don't have the guarantee of a consistent playerbase, even if you run at the same times every time. On the other hand, /tg/ is basically the only decent place for a quest, with Akun gone to more shit, and SV, SB and QQ being rancid hugboxy shitholes.

>>39303169
That's the main issue, for me. People didn't get the character, even with it being explained they had this whole "I'm the protag, she doesn't agree she must be shit." deal going on. Anons are treating characters in the quest as npcs instead of people, which in a story rich quest like this, is a severe failing.

But yeah, new people arrive, old people leave, bad shit happens, and everywhere else is total shit I feel ya there.

>>39303169
>Akun gone to more shit
Why, what happened now?

>>39303230
That's life, I suppose. It's sad, but there's not much to do about it.

>>39303241
Devkun keeps fucking up, more and more. The site goes offline at least once a week, at least.

>>39303320
Well, here's a round hoping shit doesn't get impossibly fucked up from fucking with Syl's mind.

>inb4 the mage guard immediately declare war, Alyce is horrified and ditches us, and Mal looks at us like an upset cousin.

>>39303230
Speaking honestly, anonymity of questers might not be a good thing for this particular quest.

>>39303546
Probably not, but it's what we have and probably 90% of the playerbase would dip if they had to have identification somehow. And no one wants to see almost the entirety of their peeps vanish.

>>39303580
Oh I know, I was just fantasizing.

>>39303631
I bet a psychologist would have a fucking field day diagnosing /tg/, or 4chan in general.

If the amount of shit didn't kill them, first, that is.

>>39303546
I think so too. this quest is too good for 4chan.

>>39303683
Pffft. Fuck off back to the hole you came from, then. Because you're obviously too good for us as well.

>>39303683
Not too good, exactly, but it's not really well suited to the anonymous imageboard format.

>>39298392
I would like to be entertained, but threads start at 1 AM.

>>39303580
Hell even if we had IDs like /b/ use to it would make things better. Just some degree to make people accountable.

>>39304056
While I appreciate the idea of players being more responsible, this is /tg/, they would never accept something like that, and even if they did, their stupid would show still.

One of us is not as stupid as all of us, after all.

All I wanted to do was build big things and shake out collective metaphorical dick at The Last Retreat with our tall ass walls. Why can't we all get along.

>>39304056
Retards will be retards anyway, man.
The only thing it would prevent is samefagging, and even then it'd occur, just with some more difficulty.
It'd just give people scapegoats, not actually make them less dumb.

>>39303230
>Anons are treating characters in the quest as npcs instead of people, which in a story rich quest like this, is a severe failing.

I'm honestly kind of enjoying this. Just because I like how this causes a massive clash with one guy thinking he is right every time and the others say he isn't.

>>39303169
> On the other hand, /tg/ is basically the only decent place for a quest

Got to the Quest discussion threads for about five seconds. That is the audience here.

>>39304787
>That is the audience here.
I do. They're not that bad. Go to SV, for example, and tell me they're better. I prefer /tg/ above all of the others, even with its shitstorms and all of the other shit.

>>39304871
>Go to SV, for example, and tell me they're better.

Just because SV isn't better doesn't mean /tg/ is good. If you get lucky then you'll get a thread that not every one visits there and have a decent game.

Harder to do that with /tg/ because you don't know who is showing up and what they might have missed though skipping threads. That and the average anon tends to blow up at really foolish things. Though that's not any better then other sites there.

>>39305066
>Just because SV isn't better doesn't mean /tg/ is good.
I know. But it's the best place we've got.

>>39305092
Yeah now there I can agree anon. I mean I have had some good games on forums but most of the time there is only about 10 people posting there when I do.

It's easier to have decent games here but they tend to explode within 10 threads or so. I'm honestly kind of impressed at the people who can keep them running for a year.

So who's ready to start a cold war arms race with Malataine? I for one can't wait to angrily shake my first at them across the continent/islands

>>39306560
I honestly can't wait for this. Just because I want to see that kushan tier mage and Mal get into a race for who can build more magic screw you.

>>39306834
Hell for that matter I'm wanting to see how the war goes when Talons armies are mostly complete. That is when he finally has all his races and magic things working united.

>>39307172
Then we get a second Fae March and they push our shit in.

>>39307211
I kind of doubt Aspirational would create a true unwinable situation. Which makes me interested in seeing a bunch of badass armies vs a bunch of badass godknights/Demons and how we try to leverage what we can.

It's probably going to be one of the finest battle moments in the quest. Especially considering we know it's going to kick up a notch soon.