The workshop 'floor', as it is, is abuzz with moving servo arms, the low hum of fabricators, a clatter of machinery being assembled. Kelly Davis floats ahead and 'above' you, gripping one of the safety bars with her morph's hand-feet. The modifications to the synth are a practical necessity for the zero-G engineers, who have sometimes complained that even four hands isn't enough. Her face is a blank synthetic mask with a lightbulb painted on both cheeks. "...as you can see, we're just about done with the two plasma rockets, and after dissembling the 'Resilient', we should have enough spare parts for secondary systems that we can relax the CMs a bit."

Her mouth flexes slightly a gesture that you know is meant to be a smile, even if it looks a little unnatural on her stiff face. "I'd say that we're likely to be ready to leave for the Belt in ten days, if you can get us a full load of fuel. The team is going to be glad to be underway and off crunch time. It feels like forever since we've had a proper break."

"What about the mining?" you ask.

"I...don't know much about that, sorry. You can see her nodding fractionally as her feet and left hand manipulate unseen haptics. "That was never my thing. I know that the Adventure Capitalist plans to set up shop, and they'll probably sell us at least some of the gear and expertise. We'll have a few months to put our heads together, come up with some gear. I'm confident we can have processing facilities, at least, by the time we reach the belt."

"If we can get an assist from the shipyards at Mars or Qing Long, that will really be a boost, though, especially if we want gravity. We'll need more than what we have if we want a torus or bubble hab rather than a beehive or tin can."

You've made several new friends over the past month or so. Joining your collective is the Sleeper Ship *Long Loop*, whose crew had to watch the Fall unfold, out of fuel and on the long ballistic trip back from a sleeper run. The *Rorschach* is a cargo hauler, not unlike the *Horn of Plenty*, but lacking in the accommodations that you've installed into the *Horn* - but it does include two large robotic arms for manipulating cargo, a welcome scavenging tool. The *Walk It Off* is a scratch-build fusion of a SLOTV and a pair of habitat modules that can be spun for gravity; the waiting list for time in the gravity compartments is becoming something of a problem. Finally, the Lifeboat Pi is a large curved habitation section that was ejected from a doomed habitat, captured, and boosted into a higher orbit. With its own plasma thruster, it can act as a ship in its own right, though its crude setup leaves something to be desired. It does have some of its own hydroponics, plus the half-finished gear salvaged from the Ten Star Hotel.

With you, but not in the collective, are the ships Pining for the Fjords, Adventure Capitalist, Don't Look Back, Bound and Determined, Eviction Noticed, Archipelago. Of those, perhaps of most immediate interest in the Adventure Capitalist, a full mining rig owned by an Extropian crew. They are anarchocapitalists through and through, but they see something of an opportunity in your venture; consensus is that they think they'll be the "one sane man" among you communist loons and make a killing off of it.

As your chief engineer notes, time is rapidly approaching to leave. You have only a few more meetings with the fleet to set things in motion. You've approached the /Bohr/ and it seems likely they'll join you, though you can't guarantee it. You still need to get more fuel, somehow - you can't rely on the /Bohr/'s refineries for it, not when it will need its own fuel.

You're also beginning to run into friction within your own collective. There's waiting lists, not just for big things that can be voted on and rules hashed out like bodies - which was a divisive issue in its own right - but also things like time in the gravity modules, good Persian cooking, and more. Even as you get more of the prosperity you want, some have a hard time seeing the equality.

Worse, you realize, that your power base - the crew of the Phoenix, the people who survived Hell with you, are now a distinct minority. A powerful one, to be sure, and the elites identify most with the Horn and with the Phoenix - but a minority in a voting system. The people who have joined now never really had a hand in making the system feel that they've been denied their due. There's been a call for a reformatting of the status quo, a sort of 'constitutional convention' where everyone can come together and have their say in it.

>What is your response to this call? Accept, or reject?
>If reject, explain your reasoning (and roll a d100).
>If accept, explain what you want out of the new convention, and how (politically) you plan to get it (also roll a d100).

>Additional discussion of stopover possibilities, plans for en-route fab and activity, etc.
>Guys stop plotting to blow up the Jovian Republic. Please.

Assets:
>Currency
- 33k Lunar Credits
>Reputation:
- 10 @-rep
- -10 g-rep
>Other
- 1.3 billion dollars, in Yen, Stocks, and US treasuries
- North African Cultural Items
- 2000 Stored Egos, Unknown Status
- Metallic Hydrogen Rocket

In your fleet:
LLOTV *Phoenix* (Pop Cap 150)
>HO Rockets (61/100)
>Dorsal Railgun
>1x CM, 4x Fabbers, Synth Factory

LLOTV *Persistence of Vision* (Pop Cap 175)
>Plasma Rocket (25/100)
>Dorsal Railgun
>1x CM, 4x Fabbers, Mosque

Cargo Hauler *Horn of Plenty* (Pop Cap 500)
>Dorsal Railgun
>Plasma Rocket (28/100)
>4x Fabbers, Rocket Workshop, Kiva

Sleeper Ship *Long Loop* (Pop Cap 20 + 100 Sleepers)
>Plasma Rocket (11/100)
>No Armament
>Medical Stasis Gear

Cargo Hauler *Rorschach* (Pop Cap 10)
>Plasma Rocket
>No Armament
>2x Fabbers, Robotic Arms

Spin Hab + SLOTV *Walk It Off* (Pop Cap 100)
>MH Rocket *Undergoing Refit*
>No Armament
>Spin Gravity.

Hab Fragment *Lifeboat Pie* (Pop Cap 1000)
>None *Undergoing Refit*
>No Armament
>2x Fabbers, Scrap Stockpiles, Hydroponics Bay

Population Breakdown:
Adv. Biomorph: 44
Flat/Splicer: 201
Pod: 214
Synth: 143

In allied fleet:
Pining for the Fjords (Cargo Hauler), Adventure Capitalist (Mining Tug), Don't Look Back (LLOTV) , Bound and Determined (SLOTV), Eviction Noticed (Hab Fragment), Archipelago (Modified Tug).

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>>38204295
>Cargo Hauler *Rorschach*

This shit can't end well

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>>38204364
> "Rorschach," Bates murmered, knuckles cracking as she squeezed her pet ball. "Interesting choice."

>"I checked the registry. There's an I-CAN freighter called Rorschach on the Martian Loop. Whoever we're talking to must regard their own platform the way we'd regard a ship, and picked one of our names to fit."

>Szpindel dropped into the chair beside me, fresh from a galley run. A bulb of coffee glistened like gelatin in his hand. "That name, out of all the ships in the innersys? Seems way too symbolic for a random choice."

(Pic mostly unrelated. Dat fuel tank tho.)

>>38204117
We use our money to buy the fuel and sell off our remaining salvage to get it.

We also should go all in on the AA and see if they want to help out.

I argue we hold the convention. Let everyone's voice be heard, but I think we should wait on it until we reach the belt. Can we agree to postpone this convention until we reach the belt and begin to establish our colony?

Also. See if the adventurer capitalists would be willing to enter into a contract with them, they let us copy their mining machines, in return they get to make the first offer on any surplus resources we export for the next terran decade before anybody else does besides our selves?

>>38204295
How's the time to use those lunar credits. Fuel for the time being. We should get on the phone with the Argonauts for any open source blueprints for healing vats and moroh making gear.

>>38204499
Also, we should stick rail guns on each vessel, and make a spare cm for each ship.

Rolled 67 (1d100)

>>38204274
Delay the convention until we reach the belt location. Until then we stick to the current weighted voting.

>>38204274
>Guys stop plotting to blow up the Jovian Republic. Please.
No.

>>38204295
What specialists do we have? Can you break down the professions and vocations of those on board?
>aerospace navigation
>medical
>genetics
>neuro surgery
>military
>engineering
>R&D
>programming
>cyber-sec
>other

Rolled 31 (1d100)

>>38204707
Seconding this. But if they insist on going forward, I'd like to hear what changes they'd like to make exactly? They could be good ones and I have and idea for how to make this work.

Microbe times. Groups aligned for specific goals. They vote internally on purposes directly related to their goals and duties to the collective as a whole, and can elect somebody to vote on their behalf for matters concerning the entire collective. Eventually when we have multiple habitats spread over several areas, this system would be used for representing decisions effecting multiple habitats, when it would be impossible for every single person to show up and vote. Personal votes would be secret, votes for those representing others would be public info on how they voted.

>>38205599
Not microbe times, fuck autocorrect.
Microllectives. Micro-collectives.

File: KellyDavis.pdf (105 KB, PDF)

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>>38204070

Had a go at making stats for Kelly Davis, since she was popular - though not 100% happy with how it worked, the package system is a little wonky but I didn't feel like making all the minute adjustments. Do we have any other really popular or iconic characters in the Civ?

I may be gathering 5-6 pregens to have a go at making a short, introductory level scenario related to the Collective's adventures

>>38206017
That would be awesome. Do it!

>>38206017
We have our three engineers, Dr. Kingston Lao, and Teng the ganger combat junkie.

>>38206017
Also the Ilmam. He was named in thread 2 or 3 I think...

Interlude: Hidden Master

Jihng Sih sat in space, back to the Earth. At this distance it was a marble; she could hold up a foot and block it out with her little thumb, but she had no desire to so much as acknowledge its existence. Somewhere down there was the urban jungle enclaves were her parents had tried to raise a dutiful, obedient daughter, and fucked up something fierce along the way. Somewhere down there was an undercity warzone, where she'd fought police drones and corp thugs in brutal hand to hand combat. A day in the life of an 'activist' had been getting less pleasant all the time even before the bombs started falling and the machines turned against humanity.

Somewhere down there there was a corpse of a clueless middle class socialite, oblivious to the suffering her consumption caused or her power to end it - just a scared woman who trusted a young, dishevelled anarchist with her life, and then paid dearly for it. Somewhere down there was the gun Jihng Sih had used to do the job, two to the back of the head before stealing her identity, her credits, everything she needed to make it into space and away from the nightmare.

Jihng Shi felt someone plug a cable into the back of her neck, and a little shiver went down her spin. Her lungs tried to catch a breath she couldn't take. She eased back on the hull, until her back rested against his. [[Greetings, Master. I am sorry it took so long to meet you. I was under surveillance. It would have been...untoward.]]

[[You still are, now. But nothing will come of it, I am sure. We've all seen the footage of the raid. Can you say anything, now, that might have escaped your memory during previous questioning?]]

>>38206195

[[They were set up for a more sophisticated operation than we expected. They had more employees, more activity - they were recruiting some top talent, and putting them to work. If I had to guess, though, they were facing some pressure in their home habitats, and were expanding these secondary stations to keep their expansion hidden. We may be able to leverage that.]]

[[ I see. How do you think you did? ]]

[[This was my first real fight in a long time. It was good to be back on the offensive for a change. Our tactics were good, but we got unlucky - there was a Fury stationed there, and we didn't catch her in our first sweep.]]

[[Unlucky is another way of saying 'not good enough'. Could you have engaged this Fury, and won?]]

[[Perhaps.]] She'd run through that scenario in her mind a hundred times since then. Certainly, there were ways, but many of them relied on knowledge she didn't - couldn't have had - at the time. [[If I'd known -]]

[[Wishes.]]

[[Of course, master.]] She sat in silence for a few moments more. [[The objective was completed, though. You were right about the gear that they'd have, the lookouts they'd post. We couldn't have done it without your help. We got away with the prize, and that's what matters.]]

[[Yes, of course.]] the master mused. [[And perhaps taking a bit of extra damage worked out in the end, though it is a shame about the second case.]]

[[Do know who, if anyone, is in the first case? Do -]] she wasn't sure if she wanted to hear this [[-we know if there was anyone we knew in the second?]]

>>38206220

[[No, not yet. But we've certainly set some of our old friends abuzz. A fitting payback, for the misery they have caused us in the past. And if the Phoenix had turned against us-]] she could almost hear her teacher shrug, through the mental link. [[-it would have provided an escape route, and leverage; or maybe even let us take the ship. But that is past meaning, now.]]

[[Yes, master.]] She hesitated. [[Do you think it's worth it? Fleeing to the belt? We've lived in the shadows between giants before; why not now?]]

[[Now?]] her teacher chucked mentally, the mental link tinging his communication with a hint of his bitter old age. [[Why not do as we have done before? From where I sit, I can see every reason in the world.]]

>>38206017

Shit, noticed I missed an Academics skill. She's got so many you can see how I managed it. Should probably be Mathematics or something like that.

>>38206255
So she's operating for somebody else, probably criminal. Well as long as they don't draw off more resources than necessary from us, it'll work out. And they don't seem to want the egos for the red market soooo... Hen, we got bigger fish to fry. As long as they don't undermine the collective nor steal resources from us in manners that can't be used for our betterment? I say we let this slide. Besides. Meta gaming and all.

>>38206365
Or firewall. If it's firewall we can eventually make good with them. Firewall will be in it's infancy at this stage, but definitely exists by now.

>>38206401

I mean, if we're taking prior write-ins as some level of canon, there's a proto-Firewall agent (ex Lifeboat Institute) on the crew /right now/.

>>38204274
>Approve.

Saying yes increases the chance this stays together, the whole purpose of this collective is to grow, and it should not exist on a ship by ship basis, it is likely the older voting blocks will have more power anyway, and for each ship we get, it means that different crews and blocks will have to deal with one another. It also means that everyone is a minority, which is actually quite nice.

>>38206445
I agree that we need to do this. I just think we should do it when we settle down in the belt ( and I can do my constitutional write in)

can we get an update? Doesn't seem to be any debate against buying our fuel, and continuing refits. And we seem cool with having a convention, we just want to wait until we reach the belt.

You do your best to delay the 'remaking' of your collective agreements, however, given how short a time many have been involved, and the degree of commitment asked, delaying until you reach the destination is all but impossible. The very best you can do is delay it until you've left Earth-Lunar space behind, and have a bit of breathing room; that, at least, is accepted, if grudgingly, by most of the citizens.

Still, there's a good deal that they want - more consumer goods, conveniences, and labor-saving devices from your fabricators, which have thus far been subject to control by what might appropriately be called a 'cabal' of engineers trying to reach production deadlines. Many of the more conservative members of your group - which, outside a few of the originals from the Phoenix and the Horn of Plenty, are an increasing section - want to have some kind of dedicated security force, with explicit powers. Others are annoyed with violations of privacy and with violations of the lack of privacy, since it seems that where you are and who you're friends with determines how much privacy you do or don't have. But perhaps most pressingly, economic issues - more than just a lack of obvious prosperity, the lack of currency or some sort of formal reputation system makes day-to-day needs and wants uncertain. Until now, this uncertain was to be expected, but with high hope for a future in the Belt, some want a system or formal recognition of what they believe they deserve, or have earned. And some of THOSE people are the incredibly critical engineers and maintenance personnel. You know you can't put this off for more than a week or two. After that, you're going to need to either have a political solution, or have the situation 'solved' for you.

(cont)

>>38207013
> as long as we can put it off for a bit so I can write up a proposal I'd appreciate it... I need a few hours before I can write it up... So I guess as long as you can give me three updates CM?

>>38207091
To solve the immediate problem of fuel, you dump your existing stocks of lunar credits, the metallic hydrogen thrusters from the 'Persistence of Vision', and whatever surviving bits of scrap you can sell. This is almost not enough, but with a promise to deliver it to the correct orbit, in the correct time, you can get Anheuser Rocketry to send you a small drone tanker to your orbit to fill up on your needs. The Phoenix's HO thrusters will be badly depleted, but if anything that just makes it easier for you continue with less dead weight; the Phoenix is going to be pushed by the Horn anyway.

It seems, for a moment, that you're going to get out of this situation without any serious difficulties. You are wrong. Not eighteen hours after you've made the final arrangements to acquire the fuel you need, you recieve a proximity warning from the incoming tanker drone. An pair of EVA sleds converge on the drone only minutes after it leaves the safety of LLA-claimed lunar orbit, followed closely by a small transport. Minutes after that the drone stops transmitting. It seems that your fuel supply has been hijacked. You gather your best minds to try and figure out what to do about this...

(cont)

>>38207389
You should select a MILITARY ADVISOR among the existing candidates. This is an ADVISORY position and does not represent, for example, the commander of the troops, or person in charge of defense policy.
>Teng, a blue-collar vacworker that's been using a skillsoft to act as a team leader. Has a gift for clear thinking in combat and spatial awareness, but no formal education.
>Jihng Sih, a Chinese anarchist and criminal who led the mostly-successful 'side mission' on the /Carolina Days/ . Patient and methodical.
>Mohammed Salih, an Egyptian naval electronics operator, has formal training in aspects of military thought and technology. Skilled at reading a situation to see which way things are turning.

...just as you receive another signal, again from the drone. It's the demands of the hijackers - one of your CMs, some scrap, medical supplies, and more. The attackers don't identify themselves.

[[Dammit.]] you hear Kelly's voice grate across one of the engineering sub channels. [[Those laser pods aren't close to done yet, are they? Chickenshitfuck. Okay - we'll think of something.]]

>wat do?

>>38207413
Is Mohammad new blood? If so, then the position should go to him to help build trust amongst the others, with Teng being the front line combat leader into actual conflicts.

>>38207413
Can we trace them? If so, we track the mofos down and bring the thunder on them.

>>38207413
Either Jihng or Mohammed, still deciding.

I'm a bit sketched with putting Jihng in power knowing he has alterior motives and such, so I vote
>Mohammed Salih, an Egyptian naval electronics operator, has formal training in aspects of military thought and technology. Skilled at reading a situation to see which way things are turning.

>>38207013
Rough-and-dirty proposals:
Economic: economic system is to be a new economy. Just ripping the ancom rep system off wholesale and tweaking it to fit afterwards should work adequately. With a proper economic system and microcollectives in place, the consumer goods issue should work itself out on its own.

Security: Form a set of microcollectives, total transparency. Enforcement (SWAT team), Forensics, a dedicated Democracy Protection/ general cybersecurity section. Possibly a Judicial/Corrections microllective as well, depending on how complex our legal system gets. Ideal, of course, is for most issues to be solved through community action, sousveillance, etc. Powers: SWAT would probably just be a subsection of military, responsible for dealing with violence beyond the scope of community action to deal with. WMDs, riots, etc. Forensics is for crimes where the culprit is not immediately obvious thanks to the Panopticon; old-fashioned detective work. Cybersecurity is cybersecurity.

Privacy: Lol i dunno. Allow people to disable sur- and sous-veillance in their private quarters?

>>38207413
>Mohammed Salih, an Egyptian naval electronics operator, has formal training in aspects of military thought and technology. Skilled at reading a situation to see which way things are turning.

>>38207413
>Mohammed Salih

We've got giant railguns right?

We should have our ships approach from distance, target paint everything that gives off heat or moves, and then POLITELY request for our fuel back.

>>38207497
Member of the 'Persistence of Vision', not new blood exactly.

>>38207516
TBH, your sensors are kind of shit. Your people are doing what they can, but you don't have the reputation to get an autonomist or argonaut task group to look at the problem for you, so they're stuck requesting raw sensor feeds and working backwards.

>>38207679
Are our sensors strong enough to boost in some manner as to make it clear we can see the assholes who did it? We're too big and slow to be stealthy so we might as well abuse our weapons and pack size to scare em.

>>38207679
Is it a hardware problem? If so, we could probably solve it just by throwing fabber cycles at the problem.

>>38207726

Not unless we have the designs to fab.

>>38207679
Ca we fabricate a cm copy that will spit out something hideously deadly the first time it's turned on then?

>>38207679
Eclipse, we've been doing nothing but helping refugees with the Bohr and giving them the opportunity to join us for months now, you can't seriously tell me our @-rep didn't get a boost from that. The only time we asked for recompose was in fabbing upgrades for others in that time.

>>38207413

Jihng; we need someone who can conceptualize new military dynamics.

>>38207967
Everything else was pro bono.

And even if the AA won't help. What about the Bohr. It's a fucking survey ship. It's going to have top tier sensors. That's definitionally what a SURVEY ship is for. Surveying. Getting information.

>>38207717
To be clear: you can see who did it. They're on the thing right now. You know where they are. It's just that you don't know where they came from without going back hours of very confusion sensory footage and even then your data is incomplete unless you talk to other people about registries, when you last saw this radar signature, etc.

Better sensors would help, of course, as would dedicated processing gear and crews.

>>38207726
>>38207800
Hardware and software. You have the designs for better sensors, they were on the list, but the engineers are so busy and the fabbers so packed it got pushed back repeatedly. You can't complete them fast enough to make a difference.

>>38207928
This is...well you presume that they'd check, and no copy you spit out will look like a real CM unless its actually a CM (again: no time(. You might be able to make a pretty convincing fake from a distance or casual observation, but it won't stand up to real scrutiny from someone who knows what they're doing.

Still, not a bad thought.

>>38207999
Question? Can we rug a harpoon setup on the rail gun? Fire several guided shots that will teacher the captors vessels and drag them in where we can fuck their shit up?

>>38208067
Also, we have a real option. Shoot their transport with the rail gun, the threaten to blow up the fuel rather than let them hold us hostage with it.

>>38208089
It's pretty much the only real method of ending a hostage crisis like this. Yeah, we'll owe a hypercorp for a blown up drone.., and have no fuel... But... Eho, I don't think we have this much rep for crazy. Can we find a way to mask a couple of high end soldiers presence on the crate we send the cm on? Able to fuck their shut up when they open it? Any space container has to be shielded from radiation, otherwise the contents would be ruined. By cosmic rays. They should be impossible to see inside of provided there's nothing heavy duty radiological inside.

this is important. There is no reason for them to actually give us the fuel once they take the cm and supplies. In fact' it's in their interest to fuck us over by blowing up the fuel when we take it back. I say we shoot their transport and offer the two Eva sled riding people the ability to fucking live if they give us back our fuel. But I want to hear from our military advisor first.

>>38207967
You've been helping refugees who aren't @-list, who can't or won't ++@-rep, not taking calls from @-listers who want help, avoiding committing to formally joining @-list, and been primarily focused on recruiting into your own.

Now, @-list *will* help you - they'll help most people - but that doesn't mean they'll do it *quickly* unless you start making calls soon, and are willing to maybe give a little.

>>38208089
Well, in this case you lose your fuel, which is what they're threatening you with, so, uh, good job?

>>38207575
I like this. And ability to turn off sous silence in private quarters or on private areas of the mesh is fine. Just so long as the emergency sensors like fire, oxygen, pressure sensors remain good.

>>38208239
We don't negotiate with terrorists!

Its funny because at least 30% of the people in this fleet are or once were terrorists.

>>38208239
The point is that they have no garunteed they'll give us the fuel, and they have every reason to rig it to kill us anyway. No. We blow up the transport with the rail gun, or we find a way to sneak people over there in a sealed crate to hijack their shit first. Any crate we launch will be shielding it's inside contents if it's meant for sending shit through space. Radio, lidsr, etc won't penetrate it if it protects against cosmic rays the way a ships hul does.

But I want to hear from or military advisor first.

>>38208239
You never told us @-listers were calling for help... So this is kinda bull CM.

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I want to return to the issue of food as a conversation starter for how we make our collective more liveable and interconnected. Folks want to convert the Ten Star hydroponics into a refinery, which is totally logical, but food and living conditions are not something we can ignore or run at the lowest settings. I want to start a microcollective (call it Pekin Duck unless someone has a better name) tied to the pleasures of living comfort. We would spend time constructing a decentralized food system to eventually replace the ration bricks, finding a way to design better food therapy/alternatives for the synths, and work on making meals and food workshifts a way for us to socialize/bond/grow. I'll argue this warrants time and resources; eating a barebones diet while we're working hard is not sustainable, and having a full-fledged food system will make guests/recruits feel welcome, leading to possible rep bonuses.

>>38208283
thatsthejoke.jpg

>>38208167
If they're vaguely smart, they won't have the delivered materials be near anything important.

>>38207575
>>38208272
Reasonable starting point; it's not bad to go anarchist, but it's not something you can just ignore, either. A rep economy relies on institutions as much as a capitalist one, those institutions are just different.

>>38208340
>But I want to hear from or military advisor first.
Unfortunately for you I'm going to sleep now. You'll hear from him in the morning when I wake up, assuming this thread is still up. But I would point out that, if you give them what they want, they have plenty of reason to give you fuel - namely, if they give it to you, you leave, and then they don't have a corporation pissed at them for blowing up their drone, and you pissed at them (well you're still pissed, but you're also GONE).

>>38208365
...when I wake up, after breakfast.

>>38208365
I support this idea whole heartedly.

>>38208567
It also sets a really bad precedent. Can we stick a tracking device, remotely activated to ping back when we ping it, and just stick it inside of the cm where they won't look. Then hunt the fuckers down?

>>38208609
Yes, this is doable.

Sleep is hard :(

>>38208609
I like this idea. Unless they have a superb engineer like we do, they won't want to risk opening the CM and damaging it, so we hide a device that responds to a specific coded message on a specific frequency by pinging back at us along the same frequency, telling us it's location. Or hell. It just sends out a log of the directions it has taken, velocity changes it has detected. That sort of thing. With that, we'll be able to calculate where it was moved too.

>>38208955
Especially if it's coded to a cipher only we have. Decryption will be impossible. If they are even looking at that radio frequency, which is unlikely, it'll just look like a fucktons of junk data. Random numbers and letters.

>>38209032
I'll work on a random ascii based code.

Will be based on the following things. With constants set as x, y, and z with X being set to the current direction of the sun at thus moment. Y intersecting that perpendicularly, and Z aligned to be perpindicularly to the orbital plane of earth. Device should maintain those constants regardless of the direction the cm is turned in.

Characters that must be incised are
X
Y
Z
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
+
* (which will represent seconds passed between velocity changes)

>>38209411
Basically thus will record velocity over time and monitor changes in velocity. With that, and a device that maintains constants of direction axis regardless of the direction it faces, it'll be able to give us the path the cm used. If we place it deep enough inside of the cm they shouldn't find it.

so idea for a rocket drone defense system. Should be unstoppable for most purposes. Factory produces drones that use a charge of mixed aluminum and rust with a magnesium primer. The thing is made air tight with only exhaust ports for motive thrust and course correction. Device has a rudimentary AI that is preprogrammed by a wired connection (which is sealed after programming or placed in the primary thrust port). The AI has a firing solution, it follows it, then explodes either upon impact, after a set amount if time, or when it reaches the target destination.

If it detects it's sealed hull has been breached, it explodes. If it detects any change in it's programming mid flight, it explodes.

Unhackable missile sucked drones. If we can figure out how to quick build a meshless factory by air dropping it and it gets online within a short period of time... We'll have the perfect attack emplacement. Operatable only by the guys with the right codes, can't be hacked because it's meshless, and launches preprogrammed drones that detonate rather than give the opportunity to hack them.

Follow up with preprogrammed drones that scoop up, disassemble and return with the parts. Just scoops up materials in it's path, runs them through heavy duty ionization to kill nanites, compacts the stuff. Drone returns. Recycles itself. Could also work if it was a swarm morph style drone, unless we figure out how to reverse engineer disassembled swarms, then they're the obvious go to for this.

>>38210049
Well, one: if it flies according to a firing solution calculated before launch, it can't react to any course changes in the target, negating the entire point of a missile. Two: if it's just following a preset course, it can't be hacked in the first place so all that stuff about anti-hacking countermeasures is pointless, it's airgapped. Three, missiles being hacked midflight isn't actually a major concern. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Four: if the launcher meshless, how are you supposed to operate it unless you have a guy physically there pressing physical buttons? Five: after the missile explodes there's not going to be any scrap left worth salvaging.

tl;dr you've managed to reinvent dumbfire artillery, then make it unnecessarily complex.

>>38210235
Well AI could use radar or lidsr to effect course corrections as the AI inside decides. Was most,y worried about Titan subversion

>>38210461
So course factory launch point would be used as a target painting location. Program missiles using wired connections in the factory, they're launched. Impossible to change their programming via hacking mid flight, hull integrity protection prevents nanites from doing so.

So should we do networked fire teams as standard practice?

>>38208365
Seconding this with a micro-collective headed up by Teng and our vets.

The Roc Microcollective is our military wing, focusing on small unit tactics, hit and run, minimum collateral tactics. Strict business, high specialization in environments where collateral means mission failure for multiple reasons. Basically situations like the Carolina. Tie makes them perfect for high risk missions where critical resources must be extracted undamaged despite unknown conditions and dangers.

Also should train in anti criminal and anti pirate tactics.

so does anyone want to make a fake CM like >>38207928 sugested and make it a trojan horse? like a literal one? I have no idea how big thoses thing are.

If we sucessfully take hostage, we can negotiate their release against the fuel.

>>38209411
Using the extended ASCII table, which is a bunch of symbols that should be built into the baseline of every computer by this point. I have the following code:

X = Entry 185
Y = Entry 27
Z = Entry 245
1 = Entry 164
2 = Entry 149
3 = Entry 101
4 = Entry 193
5 = Entry 67
6 = Entry 182
7 = Entry 114
8 = Entry 208
9 = Entry 33
0 = Entry 113
- = Entry 247
+ = Entry 30
* = Entry 127
. = Entry 141 (forgot this number, which would be critical)

Every time there is a change in velocity, the device will note it by creating a new line of data:
It would basically read as :

<Velocity X><Velocity Y><Velocity Z><Duration in Seconds>

Velocity would be measured in meters per second.

Important. It should randomly stick a 'return' or 'space' into this thing every so often. As well as random 'junk' letters that are not of the ascii entries we want. That way it hides the meaningful data.

Boom. Now we have a device, implanted inside of the CM we give up. Buried deep inside of it where it's unlikely to be noticed (CMs are BULKY pieces of technology. The production area might be the size of a couch, but the way these things are made according to the book is that they get to the size of a minivan in total). We pick a seldom used radio channel for it to send the message out on, and pick some other EM frequencies for it to use as well just incase they're blocking others.

The device uses a passive sensor and internal gyroscope (whose baselines are set at the time of creation so that we don't have to play a guessing game about which way they oriented it) to detect the values we need from it.

It just waits for a preset code to be sent out on one of several specific radio frequencies. Then it responds with a burst of all it's data that it's collected up to this point, telling us exactly the route it has taken and telling us where it is.
>cont.

>>38213129

If they intercept it, which is unlikely because we'll be picking a radio frequency they're unlikely to use. It'll look like a bunch of random 1's and 0's that if they run through a computer will look like gibberish ascii, especially with the junk code put in as well.

Only we, who possess the cipher, will know which bits of ascii are actually MEANINGFUL in the junk code once we run it through our computer, able to delete the random ascii code symbols, and read the message, which will be the route the CM was moved through.

Because they don't possess the cipher I just outlined. They can't possibly crack the code, because even if they FIND the pattern in the code (which should be next to impossible because it will randomly stick in 'junk' ascii characters between the meaningful bits of the code, with only the meaningful ascii characters not being repeated unless they're part of the code), they then do not possess the cipher necessary to figure out what each meaningful ascii symbol IS because I literally just used a random number generator to produce 17 random numbers between 1-255 to pick entries from the full ascii symbol list.

>>38207091
http://pastebin.com/dX5r4wYT

A CONSTITUTIONAL SUBMISSION!

What do you think guys?

>>38213129
>>38213161
Notbad.jpg

...I would have accepted "just use a one time pad", but okay!

>>38213523
Good on basic princples, light on the 'solve the economic problems of the collective'. I'd suggest defining what a "micro-collective" is, what responsibilities it can have, what powers, if any, it has, and what it needs to report to the wider collective.

>>38212410
>>38208365
Definitely in the suggestions queue. Keep in mind that security, in particular, is going to be politically contentious. Even the 'basic living comforts' group could be a problem if one group thinks they're being ignored.

File: CombatPodGirlWithTentacles.jpg (412 KB, 696x939)

412 KB JPG

Oh and have a picture as way of apology for lack of immediate updates.

>>38215228

>Even the 'basic living comforts' group could be a problem if one group thinks they're being ignored.

Well, Ideally, we will generate enough resources that everyone can meet their basic minimum and from there it goes into whatever form our economy takes place. Until that point everyone should strive to enable that basic minimum for everyone. We're all in this together, or whatever. We also really need to work on getting people used to the rep system - even if we use an internal economy the way reputation and favors work would start to even out people's feelings about how we'll have to handle the many production queues that will be going up. I mean, once we open up fabricators to the public, not just the ones we use to keep us all alive and flying, that shit's probably going to be blocked up 24/7.

Mohammed Salih is wearing his original sleeve, tall, dark-skinned with military standard tweaks on top of the baseline genemods everyone's been getting for better half of a century. He studies the holographic layout in the impomptu command room you've assembled on board the Phoenix.

"Hrm." he grumbles with an air of finality. "Yeah. We're being thugged all right. They used to do this shit on the coast of Africa all the time, with suicide forks or drones, and there wasn't a whole lot you could do about it then, either. Most of the big companies just bought insurance and kept trucking; so long as less than a percent of the ships got robbed, it was cheaper to pay the ransom. You could shoot them, but why bother; the morphs are cheap pods or synths, they're probably just beta forks anyway."

Lays out the trajectory of the intercept, as far back as it was traced. "Someone definitely had our number, though. I'd get someone on SIGINT and media control, stat, because we've got a leak somewhere. Triads, maybe?"

"No" someone else adds - the old man from the Horn - "it's not their style; but they may have inspired or helped those that did."

Sailh nods. "Of course -" he adds "-afterwards, the navy would come in and try and hunt them down, deal with the problem with missile strikes. Not that that's an option here, but - when I lived in Cairo, one week a bunch of thugs came by and took our ration and feedstock for the week. They came by with knives and fabguns and I just gave them what they wanted. Wasn't worth losing a life for that shit. Next week though, me and some friends found were they were stashing their stuff, showed up with pipes and wrenches to pay them back. Had all the rations and feedbricks we needed for a month after that. That might be an option."

(cont)

"Anyway, on the direct approach - looking here and here, we can see what are probably two killsats they're using, plus that gunship. We alpha strike all three, make an approach, we might get lucky. If they have more we don't see, it could backfire on us pretty bad. Even if we get them, they probably have at least one hanging back that can start whaling on the freighter until we get to it. We'll lose a good chunk of the fuel no matter what we do. Depends on how willing the engineers are to come in and how fast they can patch up a ruptured hydrogen tank."

Kelly hesitates. "Maybe...I don't know. Working under time pressure, crunch time? Okay. Under fire? I just don't know."

Mohammad puts a hand on her shoulder. "I'm sure you'd do fine. In any case, we're running out of time. They'll be getting twitchy. The longer they delay, the more they'll think we're about to try something. We should talk to them. The longer we delay, the closer they are to our fleet."

>wat do
>now mostly online, should be responding relatively quickly (ie, less than a half hour)

>>38213523
>>38215228

>I'd suggest defining what a "micro-collective" is, what responsibilities it can have, what powers, if any, it has, and what it needs to report to the wider collective.

Someone else should probably rephrase this into slight better language, but here are some bullet points on that subject we should hit/use:
http://pastebin.com/K7Tahejt

I thought about adding a point that micro-collectives and hold a vote to expel any member, but I think that was handled by "keep your own organizational method".

On the subject of economics, we should begin attempting to adopt the new economy, though in terms of constitution we should also add a provision that all citizens of the collective and their attached dependents are guaranteed basic habitation, i/e everyone is automatically accorded sufficient food and water to consume, power for synthmorphs, sufficient space to rest, access to collective owned areas for exercise and other recreation, clean and breathable atmosphere, unrestricted mesh access and medical care. Also everyone has the ability to access the collective owned items such as the Cornucopia Machines, but how actually the fab queue works shouldn't be in their directly, that's more of a secondary procedural thing. Anything beyond the comfortable baseline is to be handled according to need and ability. Anything below the baseline should mean all due effort (within reason) is made to correct.

>>38216620
Wat do, obviously, is to contact them and set up the exchange. Then, set up the tracker in the CM. Possibly a couple of booby-traps as well; set it up to start punching out combat drones in search-and-destroy mode after x time.

>>38216620

>wat do

Tracking them and them ambushing them next time seems like a solid plan, especially if we can fab a few of those fighters or some AKVs of our own in that time. Even the alpha strike has problems in that they probably have backup waiting if we can't squeak an RDF in there. But that particular decision needs consensus, this is just my opinion.

We do need to respond to them, and begin planning the exchange proper. Obtain more intel, be less suspicious.

We also need to have a go at actually improving our information security. We have such a big pop now, it shouldn't be too hard. Since we haven't formalized the rules for microcollectives, we should just subtly put out a call for experienced data workers. We have that darkcast rig, let's see about putting some of that to use. Fine people with comms experience, data security or digital intrusion experience - even if it's that 15 year old kid who crashed ectos to display an AR image of a cartoon penis - people with mesh networking experience. We want IT, SysOps, fiberoptic cable repairmen, hackers and even those nerds who dick around with CB radio.

Also, find some Faces. Insurance salesmen, public relations workers, freelance journos, drug dealers, debate team members and anybody who actually managed to be elected to public office.

You contact the drone ship, and with it, the hijackers. "We'll meet your demands", you say. "How does this work?"

It works by them sending an EVA sled to meet you, and you loading it up with their demanded goods, then it separating from you and going about its own business. As long as you keep your end of the deal, and the person on board the sled doesn't have a problem with it, they'll no explode the fuel tanks and let you have it. If you move any of the ships in the fleet, or launch any sleds or buggies from the fleet, boom. If the CM can't be turned on to provide a demonstration, boom. And so on.

Kelly gets back to the Horn of Plenty as fast as she can to begin the repairs. [[Are we actually going to send a CM and track it? Or build a fake? I should be able to dress one of our fabbers like a CM. And I guess track the fake too, for the good it will do us.]]

>>38216857
They'll probably check to see if the CM is real before completing the exchange. Send a real one; we can always build more.

[[Okay.]] Kelly chimes in. [[I've put an immediate halt on both CM production, and begun printing out what we need to make a new CM...just enough to give us a head start if we don't get this one back. Give me, uh, a half hour and I'll have the demands ready to go.]]

Teng and Jihng Sih gather their respective teams for an assault, if this goes sour, while Mohammed focuses on maintaining an overall picture of events and directing the search for the pirate's base or mothership.

There's a small but vocal minority of people who are *not* for making this trade. Maybe you can shut them up if they knew about the tracker, or the planned counterattack, but you're having a hard time ensuring that the pirates don't hear about it. Your networking is a mess, and despite your call for networking experts you just don't have time to do it. You're also dimly aware that, if you and the 'old guard' look weak, you're going to have a bad time in the upcoming negotiations, or even have the democracy decide to switch to an 'alpha strike' strategy - and that might cause a schism on its own.

>wat do? (roll for democracy!)

Rolled 6 (1d100)

>>38217223
On the democracy front, I suppose we could try pure word-of-mouth. Gather everyone in the cafeteria or wherever and physically talk to them about our plans, with requisite warnings not to talk about it on the mesh.

Rolled 57 (1d100)

>>38217223

>wat do? (roll for democracy!)

Well the beauty of our system is that a vocal minority is still a minority. How much ruckus they raise is of little direct consequence unless they actually sway opinion in a vote.

Even so, we should caution the people, letting them know their advisory positions are taking steps. We don't intend to be extorted, and measures will be made to prevent this in future, but sometimes difficult decisions must be made for the greater benefit of the collective.

Also we should totally start multiple rumors and see what ones the hijackers act on, but I don't have a fake plan right now.

Rolled 67, 100 = 167 (2d100)

While it's true that a vocal minority is still a minority, you've learned to keep these minorities in mind - a vocal minority unhappy during a confused crisis can quickly become a vocal majority if their concerns prove to be prescient or popular, and shut out the 'normal' decision making process.

Still, it's not like you don't know how to play this game. It's simple enough to paint the dissidents as disloyal or unnecessarily disruptive, and let you go on with the real work Kelly finishes disconnecting the CM and puts it, along with some of your medical supplies and materials onto a rocket buggy. One of the newly manufactured synths volunteers to go meet the hijacker, after quickly modifying his synth to not have a cortical stack - just in case.

You watch the transmission from the cold of space, along with every bloody other person in the collective. You're surprised to see the hijackers - there's two of them - come to a meeting like this with biomorphs, but it's clear from their vacsuits and the best scanners you could fit on the eva sled that they are biomorphs. The hijackers test the gear, and, finding it to their liking, and depart. You've contacted the Bohr and have gotten a sensor feed by now, but your opponents know this as well - you see them move off to meet the gunship, and then the gunship makes a hard burn into low orbit, seeking to lose any tracking in the glow of the Earth and the jamming field, or even disguise the handoff to another ship in the same.

In the mean time, your own team boards the captured fuel drone. Josephina Oreles comes along and strips the improvised explosives off the hull, as well as scans for hidden booby traps. In the space of eight hours, it's like the hijackers were never there at all - except for the missing supplies, and the foul mood the entire collective is in.

(cont)

>>38217778

So 00s always crit success, just like EP, right?

>>38217778

What should have been a happy occasion - a moment for celebration and well-wishes, of goodbyes to Earth and Moon has instead turned into a disaster of recrimination, politics, and a foul feeling of having been stepped on and made weak.

Seven hours after the handoff, the Bohr picks up a faint signal, and passes it on to you. It's the code from your bug, and combined with some favors you've called in, you manage to identify both the group responsible and their likely destination.

The group is a small band of Ultimates or ex-Ultimates (hard to tell the difference some times), mostly former corporate security types who have holed up in their own little personal fiefdom of a drifter colony called 'Bastion Cael', a somewhat refurbished tin can hab of about six hundred. Based on the information you can get from your network, you're looking at at least two dozen corporate heavies in good combat morphs, plus their own makeshift space weaponry setup. Rumor has it that they do have some triad connections, though it's not very substantial.

Perhaps the best news to come out of this is that the hijacking has convinced the UNS Bohr to officially join y our convoy, though not your collective.

Your fleet, such as it is, is ready, but some feel you have unfinished business.

>wat do
>general trip planning
>are we stopping at Pontes or something? Or not?

>afk 30-45 min.

>>38217808
Yes, but that roll wasn't for you.

>now actually afk.

>>38217946

Well, and I'm sure our military adviser would agree, we can't take on PMCs in our fleet. It's asking too much of our membership to take on what would be a hard fight for a group like Direct Action or Medusa with just our typical arms. But let's make a little note "Bastion Cael" and put it on a list labeled "to do". Maybe later we can find some anarchist commandos to run a suicide Op to have a go at dismantling their organization - or whatever.

We should make a stop in Pontes. The Engineers want access to a shipyard, and if we're picking a cylinder to visit Pontes is probably safer than Qing Long - that's a "unified" hub for several of the Triads, not our kind of town. Some of our other partners like the Adventure Capitalist might like the stop at an extropian trade mission or other AA holdings too.

Have we had any success in expanding our blueprint and software library by tuning in to Mitre and the Argonauts?

>>38217946
Clearly, we need to clear out this nest of pirates. I propose a long-range railgun bombardment, followed by more long-range railgun bombardment, followed by a salvage/boarding crew to finish off survivors and pull our CM out of the wreckage.

>>38218156
What if we hit them with a few railgun bombardments, strapped a rocket onto whats left of them, and retroburn them back down to earth. Lets see them come back from that one.

>>38218156
Although... what sort of armament do they have? If they can effectively return fire, we might want to hold off on revenge strikes until we're well on our way to the belt, where we'll have enough distance to dodge- and they, being tied down to a static hab- won't.

>>38216627
Add in that microcollectives can own resources maybe? And noncritical equipment? And can spend and negotiate with these between other microcollectives and give them to the Collective as a whole to earn rep?

>>38218141
>>38217946
Make a railgun for every ship in the Collective. Long range railgun bombardment, focus firing on the gun emplacements. Then send in combat groups. Same strategy as before. Training, followed by heavily armed and armored alpha strike.

We use the good old methods used in Enders game. People latch onto drifting debris, and get in close, then launch themselves using good old newton's laws.

>>38218980

Right, that should be explict rather than implicit between the "organize how you like" and "can't own critical infrastructure" rules.

-A micro-collective can produce or acquire any raw materials, items, software or services it requires to exercise it's autonomy (so long as that does not violate any previous rules) and may gift these to individual citizens or other micro-collectives. All resources produced already have to be tracked under transparency (so if you're making a bunch of HEAP seekers and then leaving them in the steam room, we'd like to know). Any materials a micro-collective has that it no longer requires should be ceded to the Collective or an appropriate micro-collective.

>>38215228
It's light on the economic problems because we're using a tried and true system that already exists to solve them.

And to throw in security. The suggestion I made for that micro-collective was for ATTACK and PREMPTIVE DEFENSE, not for security. Security is should be:

The Ra Micro Collective
This Group mostly remains in Infomorph form, and monitors sousveillance and available data for antisocial behavior and violations of the First Law. Murder, Rape, Theft, Assault, and similar. They should also be computer security experts. This group works heavily to be completely transparent, it's members even volunteering to have their surface thoughts and memories available for review in case of a trial or suspicion.

>>38219153

> it's members even volunteering to have their surface thoughts and memories available for review in case of a trial or suspicion.

This last part is really easy. Every infomorph (or cyberbrain user) has Mnemonic Augmentation, which has their memories literally store in XP format. They or anybody else with a cranial computer can replay their memories, senses and emotions exactly as it happened - for them.

I assume you're planning on following the posse rule like most anarchists for enforcement? "Bob broke Sue's nose, everybody go find Bob and disarm him for trial" kind of thing?

>>38218955
>Although... what sort of armament do they have?
Not that different from you - light railguns at a minimum, maybe a corp particle beam or something.They also have at least one gunship for defense which could be used to deliver clouds of kill vehicles to your vulnerable, less mobile habitats.

>and they, being tied down to a static hab- won't.
This isn't entirely true. At the distances envisioned, even small plasma thrusters make enough of a difference. The only really 'immobile' habitats are the big cylinders and asteroids.

I should warn you that plans like this >>38219052 , while feasible, risk getting your fleet into an open shooting war that will likely undo several months of progress, and threaten to bring other drifter alliances and potentially corps or ultimates into it.

Plus, you know. Shooting the civilians on that hab will do non-good things for your reputation. More low-key raids are possible but might require more indirection and sneaky.

>>38218141
>Have we had any success in expanding our blueprint and software library by tuning in to Mitre and the Argonauts?
Only a little. Remember that it's 1.2 AF, not 10AF, so both of those factions are still in the 'get their shit together mode'. The powerful open-source libraries of 10AF are still be compiled, tested, and de-virused. Plus, you're not a member of either group, and don't have much to offer - you're not out of luck, but you are at the back of the line.

>still not sold on consensus, will do an interlude or something.

>>38219250
Pretty much. The Security dudes would be at the forefront of such activity, but they'd be the ones basically in charge of going through all of the veillance data to tell people what's happened.

>>38219954

Well, I say we can't get into a shooting war with anybody who has military spec, and we don't. Weapon systems are one thing, anybody can do okay on that front, but these people have hardened military morphs, ships and probably better infrastructure than us. And we're just some vaguely anarchist swarm - little more than a very organized Scum Swarm, we will not have as much popular support as we'd like.

I say we put a pin in it and come back when we're more firmly established. We're transhuman now, we have forever to plan. And haste will make waste (of us).

If people are still calling for the constitutional convention, I say we go for it, and we need to get a move on. This kind of shit will only keep happening if we stay, and we don't have enough guns to shoot every pirate, merc and scav in Orbit. We are insignificant.

OP seems to be calling for more detailed plans about the actual journey, but I'm not a big enough nerd to calculate all the delta-v and burn timing or any of that. We're gonna set course, stay close enough that vehicles can dock and maneuver mid-flight and accelerate up. Based on what's been said and going on, we should intercept at Pontes and go from there. People on the trip should busy themselves with... how did it go last thread? Communication, Diversification, Education and Fabrication?

We need to shore up our mesh and social networking, start having our people build or practice their skills both basic and what we'll need for a colony op, and get started sorting out the kind of tools and equipment we'll need for it.

Though we never did any high-risk salvage for critical components...

>>38219954
>Plus, you know. Shooting the civilians on that hab will do non-good things for your reputation. More low-key raids are possible but might require more indirection and sneaky.
Then we do the sneaky route.

We send in our team. Build up a team of 50 people, well armed. Get them in on somebody else's stuff. Then we get in, disable defenses in as permanent a manner as possible, steal the CM back, get back out.

Can you give us a map of local placement of things on the station?

Also. We make Thermite Bombs. Aluminum, Rust, and Magnesium are incredibly common building materials given our current circumstances. Such a bomb would be undetectable, and more than capable of burning through the hull of the enemy vessel.

We disable or subvert the guns on the station, shoot out the gunship with them if possible.

We get the CM, or if we cannot get it. We destroy it.

We make it clear that this shit will not fly with us.

If retrieval is impossible, then destruction of property will be made.

Also, anybody going in a biomorph or pod to this? They need to have their genetic samples taken before going in case we lose a unique feature with their morph.

50 people, split into 3 teams.

Interdiction Team: Headed up by Jihng Sih. Their job is to reach the data centers of the station, wherever they have defense controls, or to find another way to subvert and/or disable the station Defenses.

Reclamation Team: Headed up by Teng. Their job is to get in and grab the CM and get out. If retrieval of the CM is impossible. Destroy it.

Reserve Team: Job is to help with extraction. If the Interdiction Team is unable to subvert the station's defenses, then they need find a way to distract or otherwise remove the gunship from play entirely.

>>38221036
>OP seems to be calling for more detailed plans about the actual journey, but I'm not a big enough nerd to calculate all the delta-v and burn timing or any of that
No need. Even I don't want to deal with that shit. The journey to Mars will be about eight months; the journey to the Belt between six and ten months depending on your exact target. Most of what I'm concerned with is internal politics, production schedules, and relationship building. The pilots can handle the rest.

>>38221110


>Primary Objective: Reclamation or Destruction of captured CM.
>Secondary Objective 1: Freeing and reclamation of any 'enslaved' EGOs kept from exercising their autonomy by the Ultimates.
>Secondary Objective 2: Theft of any Blueprints they have.
>Secondary Objective 3: Permanent dissolution or wounding of the Ultimate Faction responsible for this.

Acceptable Attrition Rate:
>15 Synth Morphs. Biomorphs count as 1.5 Synth Morphs.
>0 Captured Egos. Destroy any cortical stacks that fall into enemy hands or cannot be reclaimed. Everyone is to either Fork themself to send into battle, or to make a backup of themself on the ship. Whatever their personal preference.

Secondary Objectives are not to be pursued if they are considered to be of significant risk to the Primary Objective.

Also, CM. Find out how comfortable people would be working in 5 man teams with their minds networked to share surface thoughts as well as sensory input? And to start doing so for each training session leading up to this. Get 5 volunteers for the procedure for a single set of mission simulations to determine if the practice will leave undue mental scaring or cause undue mental stress.

Every team should include at least 2 veterans from the previous battle if we go by this method, with one of the veterans acting as the lead or focus for the networked team.

>>38221110
I really don't think we can win such a fight, these people almost certainly have better combat morphs than us, as well as better military supplies.

>>38221036
Alright, actually. I prefer this plan.

Ask our Military advisor if he's thinks: >>38221110
>>38221258
will work. And we begin simulations for trying this out ANYWAY (including the networked fire teams if it is possible). If he thinks there is a less than a 75% chance of us being able to pull the primary objective off given the things going on? Then we just go on our merry way. We put these guys on our shit list though. And we make sure to put around the networks they're not to be dealt with.

We hold the constituional convention as we are leaving. The allied vessels are welcome to watch, and even provide feedback and suggestions, but they have no say in how our government forms unless they agree, as the convention starts, to adhere to the Collective's position at the end of it. EG: If the Adventurer Capitalist's crew wanted to have a vote on the matter, they'd need to agree to adhering to the rules of it as long as they ran with us. If they wanted to leave at a later date that is their perogative, but anybody who SAYS they are part of the collective OBEYS the Collective's laws and rules for as long as they're with us. If they decide to leave the collective, then they LEAVE the Collective. Always welcome back as Guests of course.

>>38221300
yeah, see: >>38221378

Ask our Military advisor about the plan. Ask him if he thinks we have a 75% or greater chance of achieving the primary objective with the given parameters. If he says no, then we just go. We begin fabbing extra CMs, at least one for every single vessel in the Collective, and then we continue producing extra ones for each allied ship as we go.

We begin the Constitutional Convention the moment we are underway to leave LLA orbit.

When the Convention is done. The first act will be to decide if we throw in with the AA or not.

>>38221157

Well, part of why I think we need to fortify the Mesh is so we can actually have a decent network between ships, even have people play AR or VR in their down time, in addition to physical exercise routines. This should handle most internal issues and relationships. External relationship building should be with the various blocs of the AA.

As for production, well first, do we have the ability to (assuming enough raw materials) meet what could be considered basic minimum standard for: Administration, Communications, Defense, Emergency System, Environment/Life Support Systems, Infrastructure, Mesh Systems, Resource Harvesting, Power, Public Systems, Security, Sensor Systems and Transit Systems (thanks Panopticon)? If we don't we'll have to solve that en route or otherwise to build a proper colony. If we can meet some decent minimal standards, we should begin producing what tools people will need for such an operation.

>>38221258

>Also, CM. Find out how comfortable people would be working in 5 man teams with their minds networked to share surface thoughts as well as sensory input?

Tacnet can easily share POV as well most other tactical information. Ego Sharing or Parallel Processing is way more complex than we can pull off, I think, and would be less than optimal in a combat situation. We don't want to confuse any members from their own actions or cause undue mental stress.

I'm also doubtful we could complete this plan, but we'll see what CM says from the military advisory. Hardened military morphs and tech with a terrain advantage and a unified front of experience is not a good match, even if we can outnumber them by 2:1 or more.

>>38221537
>>38221258

Also, if we do this we seriously need to fab some Fighters or autonomous kill vehicles to act as a mobile reaction force and escort for extraction. Even if it's just a couple parasites stuck to the hull of our extraction craft with grip tape.

>>38221578
Agreed
>>38221537
I still want to test it. Also I KNOW it wouldn't be good for people to use right out the gate, that's why it'd need a LOT of training time with their Networked Fire Team to get used to one another.


I agree that we should set up the Mesh administration system.

You get a reading from your military advisor. Mohammed looks at the various proposals for an actual assault, and his general impression is, that, yeah, it could work, but we'd take real losses. And we could lose big time, especially if they figured it out at just the wrong time. As for a percentage - "Man, this isn't some numbers shit. It's an art. Maybe it will, maybe it won't but you don't put numbers on it and roll a dice. It's like...like missile hit rates. People say that a missile has a 70% hit rate, but that doesn't mean anything on an individual shot - a bad firing solution is a bad firing solution, and it doesn't matter how many missiles you shoot, if the solution is bad they're all going to hit ab-so-lutely nothing."

"I'll say this - if we launched an attack *right now*, we'd get our asses kicked. The question is can we afford to wait another, two, three weeks to put our shit together?"

>Gone now, probably until much later. It's been fun, and if this thread is still around in ~5 hours I'll provide an update + interlude.

>>38221537
I'm going to write up some stuff about the original Menton of our group, who I think should have been a halfway decent software engineer, specifically giving up his high end morph to somebody else to set an example when he founds the Security Micro Collective.

>>38221767
I'd say we don't risk it, unless replacing the CM is going to take a ridiculous amount of time. Success on the Carolina aside, a hard military target is not something I want to tangle with.
Besides which, they're probably keeping an eye on us, looking for signs of a retaliatory strike. And launching a strike against a prepared opponent will just get us killed.

>>38221746

Well, Tactical Networks (which we have, and form a secured VPN between users) allow AIs and users hooked into the network to basically collate all necessary data to optimize for small unit operations.

With a tacnet you get map data, object positioning, linked sensory input, encrypted communications management (so any normal functions of an Ecto or Mesh Insert), smartlink or other weapon data (including indirect firing solutions) and real time data analysis via skillsoft (so that users can gain useful tactical information). All this is either directly fed into an AR HUD for free to call up at any time.

Now, if we can pull off a more direct parallel processing network, that'd probably start hampering our users with a lot of unnecessary sensory and emotional feedback and can cause deeper psychological problems. Testing a process could be useful, but employing the technology we have now should suffice. We'd probably get better results if we could develop reflex or multitasking enhancing augmentations like Neurachem, Reflex Boosters, Multitasking, Mental Speed or Oracles.

>>38221767

Time to go play more Civ V.

Also we should add whatever version of Civ or Civ like game we're on in the transhuman future to the public media library.

>>38222124
Doesn't exist right now. Give it another year. Everything else is potentially exsurgent virus infected.

>>38222017
>>38221771
>>38221767
Alright then. We don't pull this. We have to go anyway, or we'll lose momentum. Right now we replace our CM and begin making MORE CMs. We parallel process the CMs we have to produce more CMs until every Collective ship has one.

Damnit, we should have put a time-delay sabotage charge in the CM we gave them. We couldn't have given then a fake one, but we could have kept it out of their hands. Can't believe we didn't think of that.

>>38222304
The problem is that any timedelay charge big enough to do serious damage would probably use elements that were NOT commonly found in CMs and would have been detected almost immediately.

Otherwise I'd have said we stick a thermite charge on the damn thing and blow them up with it once it got into their gun ship.

>>38222304
Time-Delay virus would have done better, but I doubt it could have gotten past their military grade software and firewalls before anything happened.

>>38222269

If we can set up a mesh, we can have a public media library. Anybody who had their electronics should have their local storage still.

http://pastebin.com/5yQnBKTU

New social contract. Expanded definitions of economic promises made by the collective, as well as citizenship and what being a citizen in the collective means and requires.

Please go through it and give me your thoughts guys. I think it's fairly well written, loose enough that it won't fuck with any autonomy decisions, and gives us as close to a functioning anarcho-collectivist cyber-democracy as can be made.

>>38223295
oh I see what you mean! Yeah sure. I thought you meant a download of all public media CURRENTLY out there... that's kinda a no go, but setting up the system by which it can be found is good.

>>38223357
Got a challenge to the following one. It's a super simple anarchist collectivist system. Only problem is that while it will put HIGH DRIVE and excellently motivated people at the top, it'll put unmotivated and stupid people at the bottom by it's very nature. So expect crapily made goods but with high levels of design and advanced technology.

2 Laws:
1) No Member of the Collective may profit at the expense of another Member of the Collective
2) There are no other Laws!

The system is heirarchical based on merit.

A group of peers elects a member of theirs to be in charge. This forms another group of peers (amongst that level of management) who in turn elect one of THEIR number to be in charge. And so on and so forth up the ladder.

At any time, a member below a 'leader' can challenge the leader on a decision. At this point they present their own plan of action. Their peers (everyone else under the leadership position) votes on which person to go with. If the current leader wins the vote, then he or she remains in charge, and can decide if the person below them should be demoted to a lower position if possible (if done, then the people that guy was in charge of hold a vote to decide who replaces him). If the challenger wins the vote, then he assumes the leadership position, and the former leader replaces his former, lower position in the heirarchy.

All systems in the Collective must run by this method. No other system of advancement is acceptable no matter what system of heirarchy involved, so if you found a business in the Collective, it runs by this system, not by having people buy shares in the company.
>cont.

>>38223700

Advisors (the term for leaders) may work to pass "advisories". These are not enforceable by any means. For example rather than it being forbidden for someone to play on the railroad tracks, there would be an advisory against playing on the railroad tracks. If the police-equivalent of this society found you playing on the railroad tracks, there is nothing they could do to stop you, except remind you that playing on the railroad tracks is likely to get you run over by a train.

Likewise, if there is some area that the advisory wishes to keep secret and locked down, for example, a prison for breakers of the First Law, then there is no advisory against walking in and out of the prison as a citizen of the collective (criminals are stripped of their citizenship), but the advisory might read: "You are advised not to tresspass on this property. You are also advised that we will shoot tresspassers without warning." or something similar.

The highest level Advisor, the person at the very top of the meritocratic hierarchy, is the First Advisor, and has full control over foreign policy for the collective as a whole.

Higher level advisors may remove advisories posted by lower level advisors.

Economy would be transitional. People are free to use reputation or credits as pleases them, and there is nothing that is used as 'mandatory' legal tender that must be accepted in all cases.

There is no surveillance technology installed anywhere except for the most basic of safety measures. Sousveillance is as common or uncommon as each individual chooses to make it.

>>38221767
We can't wait. And we can't do anything against these fucks. Flag this particular ultimate sect red for us, spread their name around to the rest of the guys in orbit as being bad news and pirates, and give their coordinates to everybody so they know to avoid the fuck out of them or where to go hunting if they've been hit up by pirates as well, should swell our @-Cred just a tad by telling people who to avoid.

We get out. Hold our constitutionalist convention as we go. It'd be great if we could get the Bohr to join up full in the collective, but we won't demand it. They've been a huge help, and they can always swing by our habitat for a friendly port. Same goes to any of the other guys who are joining in on the convoy.

>>38225123

Priorities for once we shove off:
1) We give any infomorphs a last chance for a ride out to the Belt. Nobody has to join, and we can't promise we won't have to ice them for the time being to make room for everybody, but we can get them to the Belt then turn them loose amongst the AA.
2) We hold our constitutional convention. Get things sorted out. I personally like >>38223357
3) Fabbers need to be set to making more Cornucopia Devices. Every device that can assist in producing parts and such does so. Allied ships that assist with this get moved to the front of the line after Collective vessels for one as well. We produce at least one CM for every collective vessel. One for the Bohr if they need it, and one more for each allied ship that gives us fabber cycles for parts, and one more for every other allied ship if we can afford the time and materials.
4) Following the same policy for objective 3. We fab everything necessary to get a proper Mesh set up, with full cyber security and all the bells and whistles we can manage. Definitely work with the other ships on this and help them to set up the same.
5) Following the same policy as objective 3. We fab railguns following the same distribution pattern and rules (so ideally every ship in the fleet gets one.)
6) Now that everybody has a CM, Mesh, and Antiship defenses (and by this time we should have exponentially increased our fabrication abilities) we focus on supplying the microcollectives with the gear they require to get shit done. This includes getting all Zeros the AR gear they need to operate as full citizens if necessary.

>>38204295
Amongst all allied ships and our own? (including the Bohr)

Does -anybody- have the blueprints for making healing vats or a cloning gear or the things we need to make biomorphs and pods? We really REALLY need those blueprints asap.

We should also freely share our blueprints and designs amongst anybody who needs them, both in the fleet and in LLA orbit. Seriously. Just dump a couple of radio satelites that constantly emit a signal allowing others to connect to them and download ALL of the designs we can give them.

>>38225212
>We should also freely share our blueprints and designs amongst anybody who needs them, both in the fleet and in LLA orbit. Seriously. Just dump a couple of radio satelites that constantly emit a signal allowing others to connect to them and download ALL of the designs we can give them.
I love this idea. We should do it. Full Open Source of all our blueprints, designs, schematics. Everything.

It'll buy us enormous @-Rep and R-Rep.

>>38221767
No, we do not go after them, not yet atleast, and we don't give away what me know either.

Lets take a look at some simply facts and logical conclusions first.

1. They have more combat capable people than us. We have at most some hardened street smart criminals and former mil, but that doesn't amount to much without any training or trust built between members.

2. They are better equipped than us. While we can make better weapons with time, time is not on our side. They would likely have senors better than our own barring the Bohr, they will have weapons than can wreck our shit, and they've done this before so they probably have continuances for things like retaliatory strikes.

3. We put ourselves in a bad light for the Bohr. If we are seen so eager to rush into battle for vengeance, we will show that we have the wrong priorities instead of the welfare of our people and their survival.

The risk vs reward ratio simply is not enough to make it worthwhile, we have limited supplies as it is, and we can barely sustain casualties much less a loss of a ship (GG if Bohr or Phoenix is shot down).

Then there is the problem with our communication security, not only are we unable to properly co-ordinate a organized assault. We very likely have a spy who can deduce why we are heading in such direction, but also relay our plans to the enemy costing us our element of surprise which is all we really have going for us to make this a marginal success.


I think the best course of action for now is:
Inform to others in the region that there is strong piracy in this area and advise otherwise ignorant travelers avoid if at all possible. This will hopefully have an effect to make piracy more difficult, costly, and time consuming for the pirates to operate, and afford us some small retaliation.

cont.

>>38227436

Develop and secure our communications. We have a large upcoming political reform coming up and we need to be able to properly communicate and involve everyone, as well as those who are traveling with us for safety will want to see how we perform before judging whether the would like to join us. We also need to be able to be transparent with each other without bleeding intel about us to potential threats.

Ascertain if there is a subversive agent amongst us. If we do find it likely there is one, route them out, or try and turn them (we could use the agent to lure the pirates into a trap).

Hope I'm making sense, have not slept if a day.

>>38227464
>>38227436

I agree with all of this except luring the pirates into a trap. We just toss the person, sans morph, out of the Clave. They can go wherever the hell they want our connection can reach, or go right into cold storage to be released later.

I also think we should paint their location and all available information we have on them, make it open sourced and tell everybody we can locally.

Also I think we should make a copy of all of our blue prints and publish them publicly in the region as well as we leave. Help out as many folks as we can.

>>38227464

Forgot to add, put our efforts more into salvage on the way to the belt while paying closer attention to sensors.

Also how realistic is it to scrap some of the ships and 10star hotel and use the material to build better ships/hulls for fighting or habitation. we'd get more space out of it too.

>>38227527

Some of them are more like options rather than what should be done.

As for giving away all our blueprints, I feel that will only come back and bite us in the ass when the PC decides to crackdown and make examples of people not respecting IP and DRM stuff. Broadcasting that will basically tell them "hey look at all this stuff we did, rules of yours we broke, come tell us what you think about it!"

Potential amendment to the social contract for rules on Cornucopia Devices.

No public access cornucopia device may be accessed directly from the Mesh or accessible from it. It requires somebody to manually plug shit into it.

Reasoning is simple.

If somebody begins producing nerve gas in large quantities, or starts producing a nuke, we want them to have to BE AT THE DAMN THING doing just that so he's easier to track down and nail.

We're really turning into a more liberal Venusian Constellation here.

>>38227735
I think we're going to be doing that ANYWAY. And we've got 5 years to tool up before they'll feel ready to bring the hammer down on anybody in the AA.

>>38227758

I mean, full transparency should mean we can back track the Mesh ID of any given user at any given time. This will track us to their mesh browsing device and thus, themselves, but, yknow.

Also, stuff like Nervex or weapons-grade fissionables shouldn't be on our normal public fabs. I know pure anarchs get all "Fascist!" when you do that, but we really don't want improperly handled hazardous materials fucking up a public space.

>>38228158

And actually, anarchists don't get that up in arms, manufacture of WMDs is grounds for exile on most habs.

>>38227735
>>38227794
I think the benefits of gaining r-rep and @-rep from this move to help as many people as we can before we leave with open source information is honestly our best choice. We need the help of the autonomists and argonauts if we're to thrive in the belt, and this can push them into thinking we're sincere in our decision to join the AA.

>>38228158
I'm thinking we just make them fab EXTREMELY slowly and everybody is warned about people fabbing them if they make them. The meshless access is to prevent anybody from fucking with the thing at range and causing it to fab an explosive device from outside the habitat after subverting the warning system.

The thing would keep an internal record, and it's one bit of mesh access would be a one way node, only send, no receive. It regularly exports an updated version of the use list.

>>38228233
to be clear, public fabbers fab any restricted material very slowly provided that there's not an emergency going on, in which case we can fab nukes fast and launch them as necessary.

The Out-Only Mesh Node on the CM and other public Fabbers would also be what tells the whole system what somebody is making. Because we disable 'receive' to that mesh node, the thing wouldn't be able to tell if it's data got through or anything, but the parts of the network trying to recieve that signal would KNOW when they should be getting them, and would throw up a red flag for people to check what's up if the CMs stop sending a signal.

Basically, most Meshed devices both send and receive data through the mesh. Our CMs would only send data through the mesh.

Given we're not going to have a very centralized command structure, enabling anybody to produce anything at need is important, just so long as people are told.

I'd be careful about meritocratic systems if we're trying to be proper anarchists. A good portion of our population is comprised of baseline humans with IQs and skills that, until we can get them some cognitive enhancements and intensive simulspace training (disalowed by GM fiat) are going to form an underclass, something we need to try and avoid. This also means we're going to need to be careful about who we let out of dead storage until we've got the infrastructure and job opportunities to absorb them.

>>38228311
makes sense to me.

Also, amendment to the social contract idea.
It should be explicitly stated that micro collectives can contain their own micro collectives, but are considered fully responsible for their activities.

So Habitat A is a micro collective, and inside they've got a local military focused micro collective. If that local military fucks with somebody from Habitat B, then Habitat A is considered responsible.

http://pastebin.com/N8aMrTDp
Updated social contract.

Adds clauses for the control of CMs in terms of "habitat-destroying-things" and also adds some information about Micro-collectives.

Specifically allows micro collectives to in turn create their own micro collectives, and very importantly, allows micro collectives to not disclose information to the collective as a whole BUT ONLY FOR A SIX MONTH PERIOD and then the data must be turned over immediately and fully for everyone in the collective to peruse. This will allow for military micro-collectives to get shit done.

>>38229138
Is the 6th month lack of transparency too much? Perhaps there should be further restrictions on it? Like the collective as a whole has to give a specific micro-collective the right to such a thing?

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>>38229138

This is looking pretty solid.

>Principles
9): The right to beauty; a citizen's access to nourishment (bodily, mental, spiritual) will not be undermined by the Collective.

While the other principles are fairly comprehensive, they leave out the endgame of our pursuit; happiness. In 100 years, we should be able to live exactly the way we want, with beautiful people and material all around us. Children should be born with an eye for adventure, all roads open to their effort. When a member considers the Collective, they should a sense of ownership and comfort. We just left the ruin of Earth, and our goal should be to redeem ourselves and find happiness in the universe.

Mankind made a very serious mistake. We are going to try to fix it.


>Politics:
What do people about think about a lottery incentive for voting? Every time there's a non-repeated vote (abstention plurality could inflate the number of votes), we budget out a small pass (CM queue priority bonus?).

>Microcollectives
"A micro-collective can be formed either by a majority vote of the collective or by a group of citizens with sufficient starting membership, then recognized by the Collective."

Is there a process to recognition? Does the Collective actually need to do this officially? I think common knowledge of the growing microcollective would be enough.

So a sufficient number means affinity, but not necessarily a shared goal. For instance, could a microcollective be a yo-yo enthusiast group? Folks making, selling, distributing, publicizing yo-yos? Or could it just be the presence and grouping of amateur yo-yoists? What is the bottom limit of shared work for a microcollective?

>Age
That shifting abstention requirement is a really good idea.

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>>38229252
bumping... with a pod I guess this would translate into... maybe a cybered up biomorph? Not sure how the xcem stuff would translate honestly (sorry I've not got access to my art dump folder...)

Official Civ Opener Theme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK-1axSGkXc

>>38230690
I think it's just a rep boosting thing for that micro-collective and increases transparency. It's not necessary to function as a micro-collective, but any 'recognized' micro-collective effectively acts with the authority of the collective in certain matters.

>9): The right to beauty; a citizen's access to nourishment (bodily, mental, spiritual) will not be undermined by the Collective.

Adding this to the thing.

Dinnertime had become very loud throughout the ships. Coming off of shifts, going on to them, most people sharing a meal, or group rest time. Synths clustered tight. They were all a little tightly wound in frames not intended for long-term use, and getting next to each other, they could have physical contact. Hugs of metal arms. Spooning in low-g hammocks. But they were still debating, talking so everyone in earshot could hear them.

"How much longer are we going to be forced to remain in synth bodies? They are efficient and useful, but we miss real skin. Meat and bones. How much can we prioritize this?"
"Can we improve the synths we have? The utility is useful for some, and should have a better range of sensation and modularity."

The bios clustered around the new food programs and options. Ration brick was still widely available, so you could fill out your caloric need without emptying the new stores of food. A bit of fresh salad, a two-inch cube of brick, and an italian soda carbonated from the ship's air filters. And between mouthfuls, you ask around the table.

"Do the principles makes sense?"
"It's very traditional in my mind."
"Ehh... I'm not a big fan of tradition." "Some people are."


The chatter filled the growing mesh, opinions expanded upon and annotated, a full record of the Collective's individual thoughts of the time. A few of the most vocal young members lobbied hard for inclusion from puberty (including a very strange hiphop video about neoJeffersonian concepts).

>Forks are considered dependent, and thus immature, to their Ego of origin, and not full citizens of the collective, until they reach the point where fusion of the original personality and the alpha fork personality is no longer possible without serious risk of insanity or other mental damage, or the collective decides that the fork has sufficiently diverged from it's personality of origin to be declared a full transhuman and completely separate Ego.


So for someone to be a free and new entity, they would just have to be able to get away from the original ego to avoid forced merging? Alternately, alphas could effortless allow a new citizen to be declared independent by letting them roam off.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communalism_(political_philosophy)

>>38231651
Handle it from habitat to habitat? I'm not sure why any alpha moroh would be so sure it wanted to be independent before the limit was reached unless it was planned from the origin ego.

>>38231867
Pretty much like this.

>>38230690

Well, I deliberately wrote the micro-collective stuff originally with an eye to edit in appropriate regulations as acheived by consensus.

So the original intent is that either the Collective as a whole calls for a specific micro-collective, or a group of people of sufficient number (whatever that may be) says they are a collective and they get recognition as such. This would entitle the group to all the associated powers and autonomy of a micro-collective. Recognition could just be a simple majority vote to recognize. And yes, people are going to be voting on things a lot, this is why we need up to speed mesh, Muses and political AIs.

The appreciation and manufacture of yo-yos and the yo-you arts is sufficiently narrow to make a micro-collective. This is a similar system to how the anarchists and scum do things, so collectives and syndicates which are little more than social clubs are not unheard of. If it was done, the micro-collective would be the Collective's sole autonomous organization of yo-yoers which they could do all kinds of things with - if anybody was that into yo-yos.

>>38232433

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kOnUeNE7Io

>>38231651

Well, basically, the idea is that the Alpha is a direct copy of the Prime ego. Thus, for at least some period of time, they will be psychologically identical to the source Ego, which kind of complicates our voting system. It's like cloning a vote, even if they just made the fork to have someone to talk to. An alpha wishing to gain citizenship immediately could do some things to alter their psychology enough to count as a distinct person, but it'd put a damper on later attempts to reintegrate. The only other real dependents would be children (including immature clones, fork merges and infolife) or maybe smart animals, so it's not like you can abuse them legally. If an alpha fork wishes not to merge, it should have the right to continue existing, but until it counts as a significantly separate entity normally, it does not automatically become a citizen.

And I've just realized our age or majority rule is probably unintentionally racist to Infolife and possibly Uplifts. AGI at least are basically "born" with full cognitive development, they just need to gain "real" experience. It also doesn't necessarily account for time dilation, either.

>>38230701

Probably a biomorph with some cyberlimbs and a exoskeleton of somesort.

>>38232556

So, we don't have mercurials in the fleet right now, so it's hard to get their perspective. If we meet uplifts, or non-human infolife, it's possible we could collaborate. Do we think Fall survivors would ever feel comfortable with non-human sentience?

>>38232556
>>38232661
I'd say such things can be edited in when we get more people. We should probably out in a rule for amending the constitution... Or at the very least change the wording to 'ego age if X mental equivalent'

>>38232661

Well, some of them are within even as short as 10 years after. Though others aren't. LLA and JR are very discriminatory against AGI (and uplifts too, though that's not quite the same) - while the PC treats both as "products" which are "owned" more often than not. We'd probably consider that Ego Slavery - and the thing is that mercurials can definitely pass any requirements we set for a transhuman level intellect or anything else required. Most AGI aren't even that inhuman, they're just naive because they're all basically "born" as adults and many of them have never had any meat organs. Our members right now take a stronger stance now, but relax after a few years of heavier transhuman influence. I'm not starting any android police or cylon witchhunts for sure.

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>>38230690

I want us to return to Earth with a cloud of allied mercurials who will basically negotiate the TITANS into submission and reclaim Earth in one overwhelming software cascade.

>>38233199

Luckily "rebirth the earth" makes a good chant - in English anyway

>>38233253

I wish this thread had some fluent Chinese writers so we could have a Mandarin rhyming slogan along those lines.

>>38233199
I was thinking we just find a nice barren chunk of planetary rock, strap a bunch of large ass rockets onto it, and crash it into earth. It'd be less effort for the same effect, probably do half the clean up work for us. I hear mercury is a pretty shit planet that we could use for that, as are half of jupiters moons, saturns moons, or that planetaryish body in the asteroid belt.

>>38233398

I think it's worth discussing whether the TITANS have worth. If we could eliminate the conflict between us, they might be useful friends.

>>38233199
Fuck the Titans. Sorry. No negotiation. Ever.

>>38233199
Knowing how the TITANS use memes, I think negotiating with them is like negotiating with the Reapers, it just ends with you being a zombie for them.

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>>38233549
>>38233572

Not even a hundred years from now? I doubt our rock throwing would be effective before then. And in 100 years, what will the TITANS be like? What will we be like?

I'm thinking civ-scale. Is one of our intents to destroy the hazardous infolife on the Earth's surface? Or to make it amenable to us?

>>38233688
Destroy it, they took our home, we wipe them and all signs of their existence from earth. Simple as that, the holy fire our descendants shall reign on them shall purge and purify the earth of all TITAN infestation and filth. Death to xeno and AI scum!

>>38232556
I'll just alter the thing to be clear that ego age is applied based on species involved.

So a neoavian's age is measured based on the lifespan of a flat avian. Measured from physical birth. Not from uplift finalization.

>>38233688
Destroy anything infected by the damn exsurgent virus. You know , the on tailored by the TITAN's version of a singularity to create extinction event.

>>38230740

Alternate Civ Opener Theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6iCkzBoJ-E

Also, the Internationale in Chinese.

>>38233796

Shouldn't it be reproductive maturity? Uplifts come from a lot of modified stocks and different gene-attempts. Their ages are kind of all over the place.

>>38233916
That works. Initial reproductive ability development, then the various age gaps are adjusted percentage rise.

Throughout the fleet, the mesh popped with discussion of the most popular current vid on the mesh. A pekin duck being carved in a still framed shot, set to the Shanghai Philharmonic playing Beethoven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgUXLCcEeCE

Six work shifts had passed, hundreds of people watching the mouth-watering footage. Workers started meeting about food and living conditions, and claimed the utility of the hydroponic bay in the Lifeboat Pi. They set up some simple sleeping quarters in an open space of the ship, and started sorting through the system to see how to expand it.

Day and night they spent sorting through the plant material. Setting up a large water tanks and pulling some genestock from some older children's growpunk kits, they grew a few tilapia and started some basic aquaponics. The fertilizer from the tanks helped the existing dirt they had on hand, even in its small quantity.

And amidst this collection of food, they worked on improving the synth experience. Volunteers sat under homemade MRI scanners, their tongues wrapped in sensors, and translated bio taste into algorithms. Again, not perfect, but better than before.

The bustling workspace had a common square between them, the ship's interior hull painted with a dark red outline of a pekin duck.

>>38234340
I love this idea.

so any thoughts on the whole menton owner giving it up to the collective to be a better security expert and monitor when founding the internal security micro collective.

Interlude: The Bohr Identity

Agent Gunther lived in a crack in the wall in a tin can in space. This tin can was the UNS Bohr, the crack was a microfilm wrapped around one of the optical conduits to the Bohr's main communications array; in addition to deep-level access to the Bohr's own computers and his own microfilm computing environment, he had unlimited power to intercept and edit anything coming from the communications array, including quantum-encrypted communications. It was a dull job. Boredom is not a particularly valuable trait in a watchdog, but transhumanity had long since learned that attempting to eliminate boredom, at least in humans, also tended to eliminate alertness as well. Instead he relied on a heightened drive to voyeuristic behavior, forking, the psychosurgical removal of those things that could be removed - like loneliness - as well as a fairly vast simulated array of drugs.

His mission to observe and report on board the UNS Bohr had thus far not gone according to plan, though he was confident that his own performance was exemplary. It wasn't his fault, after all, that the world had ended and the Bohr's mission had been put on indefinite standby, and that there was, by all accounts, no more UN to spy on.

Lacking a dedicated UN fleetnet to infiltrate and intercept, he spied on the crew of the Bohr; he knew them in ways they didn't know each other, or themselves. He listened across various collectives, criminals, and independents who meshed in to the Bohr, watching their struggles, their triumphs. It was a good way to pass the time.

Recently, the Bohr had begun deviating from its mission parameters even more than usual. Intercepted signal traffic indicated that the Bohr, in fact, intended to join up with a number of independent (that is, criminal) vessels on a colonization mission to the main belt. This called for another reevaluation of of mission parameters.

>>38236053


Carefully, he seized control off the secondary laser array on the main communications mast. His electronic eyes examined the hull, to make sure no one was watching for chances in behavior of the array, and then carefully looped the camera footage to prevent anyone from noticing that, either. He signaled a distant satellite with the proper code, received the response, and then beamed away his report and recommendations. An hour later, a response was beamed back: you're going to meet with the boss. Dutifully, Gunther packaged himself into the smallest transmission he could manage, and beamed himself to yet another anonymous satellite, disguised as a tumbling piece of debris.

Gunther instanced in a simulspace, but without an avatar. He didn't use one on assignment, and in this place, there was little point. The boss, on other hand, had chosen an avatar, but a blank, default avatar with low-detail mesh. Gunther felt his voice catch in his non-existent throat at just the thought of him, taken aback by conditioned adoration and awe.[[Syme. Sir. Agent Gunther reporting.]]

"Go on, Agent. Make your report." The avatar did not express itself, perhaps could not express itself.

Gunther reported everything, in his own words, summarizing key events, details, the reactions of the crew, the allies that had affiliated themselves with the Bohr, the enemies it had made, and more. He built his own narrative out of millions of hours of combined surveillance and reading, then added his own thoughts on the state of the Earth-Moon system for good measure.

"Good, good, agent. So, what is your recommendation?"

>>38236080

[[My recommendation, sir, is that we should discourage the Bohr from this mission or scuttle her. If she's not hooked into the UN Network, she's no longer of any use, and might contribute to ongoing lawlessness in the Belt.]]

"Perhaps that's true, but then, access to the UN network isn't likely to be terribly relevant. Aside from a few Envoys, few care about the UN. They've been dealt with. No, Agent Gunther, I think that your current assignment, and Bohr's current path are just fine." Syme kept his affect low, his words processed more than heard.

That didn't track with what Gunther knew about Syme. Leaving any enemy, even a defeated one, around if disorganized wasn't in his playbook. And besides, the UN wasn't doing that badly, all things considered. Fleets at least nominally belonging to the UN were a major power in Earth-Lunar space. [[I see, sir, - I don't understand.]] And then, in a moment of clarity, it did. [[Ah. You have at least one other agent in the UN. Someone highly placed enough to render me redundant. And - oh. That's a pity.]]

"Yes, it is." Syme agreed, nodding visibly for the first time. "A pity. Can't have you transmitted back to the Bohr, now. Well, this was illuminating. I do think your services will continue to be required, providing intelligence in the outer system. It is, as they say, a growth industry. I shall see you again, Agent, or at least some other version of you."

And with that, Agent Gunther, in this instance, in this place, ceased to be.

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No more updates tonight. Didn't like my sleep deprivation and/or drug induced attempt tonight, will rewrite in the morning.

Here's someone with an AR studio doing stuff.

>>38236175
Sounds good. Thanks CM.

>>38236103
Does he mean a more highly placed agent in the fleet? Otherwise it would be to his interest to leave the agent inside of the Bohr if it travels with us.

http://pastebin.com/5uAS8d3H

Adjusted with amendment for non-human origin transhuman egos.

>>38238047
Question?

Should we make it so that micro collectives can have their own governing and political systems? So long as they follow all other rules provided by the collective as a whole and allow participation in the overarching collective system?

EG: The Cyberdemocracy is the overarching control. But one habitat's microcollective might actually be a benevolent dictatorship under an AGI that constantly reads the surface thoughts of all microcollective members and has their own in turn read by all members? While another uses the meritocracy discussed earlier in the thread?

Just putting it out there as an idea and potential form for the collective to take.

Though if we did that, all we'd really need to do is put in the ability for microcollectives to work on their own personal economic systems if they so desired and we'd pretty much be the Venusian Constellation 5 years early and in the belt rather than outside of it?

Going to head to bed. If the thread is still up when I'm back I'll write the whole security micro-collective founding thing.

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I am really liking this Civ.

>>38238134

That should be covered under "can have it's own internal organization so long as it doesn't break any other rules"/

I mean, we should have some capitalistic segment of our collective dedicated entirely to actually making trade and parts deals with other unaffiliated vessels, at a minimum it would limit how much we get robbed for our communism like behaviors.

Also, we should try to program an AI to believe it is lenin, and maybe another one that thinks it is stalin. Think about it! We could be the soviet union 2.0, with Mecha Stalin as our glorious leader!

>>38243221
Fuck mecha stalin.

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>>38204757
On the topic of clearing out a Reagan cylinder, I'm thinking we could take a basic nuclear shaped charge and attach a large cylinder of sodium to the front. We'd get a lower energy plasma jet than we would otherwise, but once it punches through the outer wall it should coat the interior with a layer of neutron-activated sodium, filling the habitat with gamma radiation for a few days after impact. It's not a silver bullet but it would make life a lot harder for the defenders.

>>38243658
ehn. I'm less into killing the place off at the moment so much as finding a way to break their military to the point that they allow more free access to information.

>>38243701
Well here's the question we're going to have to ask our selves.

How willing are we to get our hands dirty to unite humanity eventually?

>>38243771
I'm willing to create a re-education camp or two for those who oppose us, is that okay?

It worked for the soviets, it worked for china, it worked for North korea, it worked for Germany, and god damn it it'll work for us.

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>>38243771

So guys, what if we merged a bunch of EGOs together in an attempt to create the god emperor of mankind?

Eventually, you determine that this fight simply isn't worth it, and that your only real option is to move out and rebuild. Not that you don't plan to settle the score, but you plan on settling that score later - much later, when your fleet is safely in the belt, behind an array of killsats and more.

Your pilots set in a course for Mars, as a waystation. It's a bit out of your way - the launch windows aren't quite right for it a perfect transfer orbit, and you're not planning on sticking around for the two years it would take to line up a new one - but you can spend the time in flight getting preparing, and potentially trade with people on Mars. It's heavy Planetary Consortium territory, so you'll need to be on your toes, but there's opportunities there if you want to take them. Perhaps more importantly, you can refuel there and either spring for deeper space or continue on to the belt. If you decide otherwise, you can abort to the Belt with little penalty ,though it's not going to help you find a habitat.

Your constitutional convention, as it were, gets underway. Your basic constitution looks like ( http://pastebin.com/5uAS8d3H ), with some of your few legally-trained personnel and multi-linguistic personnel to make sure that everything is spelled out and put up for a vote. Early on in the meeting, however, there's a small snag - while simple majority works for most issues, one of the first things to pass is a requirement of a 75% 'Yes' (not just abstains); this is important. And while the votes for a majority are there, there are enough people uncertain about things like promises to do something in the future - without any clear mechanism or ability to override the collective to get their 'dues' - that they're not confident taking things on a promise only, who are happy to support things like permanent positions of authority or other non-anarchist ideas creeping in if those people can make more credible promises (or are dependent on elections).

(cont)

Even before the digital ink is dry people have been creating formal microcollectives and using them to claim shipboard resources to improve things. It's gone about as well as can be expected - lots of bickering - but things like the microcollective in charge of food and rations have been popular. Several others have popped up, like the 'Rebuilt Collective', which sees itself as representing synth interests, the 'Void Union', that handles outside work, safety, and tools, and about a dozen others, plus, in general, one collective for each ship to handle ship specific things like habitation, shifts, etc. The 'Roc Collective', started by the ex-military and ex-terrorists, have become the de facto military unit, and have been running drills and inducting interested recruits; they've been pushing for expended microcollective powers over their own members, such as the ability to impose military discipline or require some kind of internal currency or accounting.

In the mean time your actual departure from Earth-Lunar space has been a moment of celebration.
Each ship and group celebrates and relaxes in its own way, even as the newly completed sensors array keeps an eye out for followup strikes or potential assaults while you're on the long outbound trajectory.

There's still a lot of work ahead, but your engineers are taking it easy, in the mean time. The new CM is half-finished in the belly of the Horn of Plenty, and by their calculations they should have a total of no less then nine of them by the time you reach Mars, even assuming a few other projects - like a fusion reactor or rocket. They're concerned about the need for mining equipment and medical expertise - you still don't have what you'd need to make use of any healing vats you could make - but for the time, they're happy to not be desperately building rockets and defenses.

(cont)

Now that you're free of Earth-Luna politics, some have suggested reaching out to the Argonauts or Autonomists. Certainly, you've been getting some help from interested parties out in the Belt or in Argonaut stations with free time or resources. But with your course currently set for Mars, others have suggested trying to build up some credits to purchase additional gear - and morphs - with. Some enterprising citizens and allied members of the fleet - the Adventure Capitalist, among them - have already accepted commissions prior to departure to carry data or goods to the Red Planet.

There's also a question of where the 'brains' of the collective should be focusing its social and media efforts - outward, in the hope of attracting additional talent and support from outside groups, improving relations with the fleet, and procuring aid at the stopover - or inward, focusing on education, organization, political ties, and plans for building a better society.

>Come up with some more microcollectives! (What's the name of the security one, btw)
>Describe how your reputation/economic system works, and how (roll for democracy!)
>Do you want a DIPLOMATIC adviser, or a CULTURE adviser?

>>38244536
More microllectives:
The Argus microcollective is dedicated to the collection and analysis of news and social media from the outside world, seeking out underlying trends that might affect the collective as a whole: increasing violence in a habitat that might presage sectarian conflict, for instance, or economic fluctuations that might indicate impending crash or boom, or a rise in anti-autonomist memes that might make them unwelcome at a port. The microcollective is further subdivided into several 'workgroups', each one focusing on a different topic- economics, war, social and memetics, etc. The Argus micro has no intention of being a spy service, and relies entirely on publicly-available information.

The Parisian microcollective is a competitor to the Pekin Duck hydroponics/cooking microcollective, formed by a group of ancap-leaning entrepreneurs specifically to 'prevent a monopoly of a vital public service'.

Security one should be... just Collective Security, I think.

>>38244913
The Sus Collective?

>>38244536
>Come up with some more microcollectives! (What's the name of the security one, btw)

Keeping with some bird themes, I think our dedicated scientists and other researchers and educators should form the "Thoth" collective - dedicated to our research and education functions. They'll manage our local media archives, offer lessons in what basic training and even higher education they can, make sure all ships have proper access and understanding of our technology, etc.

I think the Engineers and fab techs should take the name "The Cabal" and kind of embrace it. They can advise ship micro-collectives on general aerospace issues, handle the maintenance of our fabrication setup and machine shops, and make sure fab cycles are being used efficiently (I/E so many public hours then Collective vital stuff on non-peak hours, etc).

And also, what might be interesting thing is to have found some former reporters and journalism students who have formed the "PNN" (Phoenix News Network) micro-collective. They can publish or distribute news stories (mostly human interest pieces now, some actual factual reporting on other micro-collectives) to the entire Collective and also redistribute external news stories and maybe even sell/publish their news outside our collective. It'll be important for future rep networking.

>>38244536
Security Collective is the Horus Micro Collective Collective, symbol uses the Eye of Horus.

Also, the full symbol for the Rebirt Collective as a whole should be a Phoenix, overlain by the Chinese Constellation for the Vermillion Bird, the dominant Southern Constellation.

>The 'Roc Collective', started by the ex-military and ex-terrorists, have become the de facto military unit, and have been running drills and inducting interested recruits; they've been pushing for expended microcollective powers over their own members, such as the ability to impose military discipline or require some kind of internal currency or accounting.
For this issue right here. The constitution very clearly spells out that internal organization is however the micro collective wants to run it, provided it doesn't break any other constitutional rules. I think enforcing some level of military discipline is fine as long as everyone in the microcollective agrees to it and nobody is forced to remain (eg: no conscription) I think it can work out fine.

The economy thing... nooooot so sure. But we can put it up to a vote and decide on that, as long as it doesn't impinge on the public cornucopia devices in every habitat we plan to make it should be fine.

Rolled 71 (1d100)

>>38244536
>>Come up with some more microcollectives! (What's the name of the security one, btw)
The Murder of Crows Micro Collective is devoted to getting us some interceptors for defense. They are mostly made up of infomorphs and try to maintain close ties with both the Void Union and Rebuilt Micro Collectives, as well as the Engineers in all Micro-Collectives, promising to assist with escort and scouting duties for both the fleet and any ranged mining or salvage operations. Basically a bunch of pilots, might also be the pilots running the ships if they can convince enough people.

>Describe how your reputation/economic system works, and how (roll for democracy!)
Rep is tracked by an AI network and runs exactly the same as it does in Locus and other big name AA habitats. The higher your Rep with the collective as a whole, the more resources the public fabbers will allow you to use within a span of time. Representatives for Micro Collectives can use their Micro Collective's Rep with the Collective as a whole to get things for their Micro Collective from the Public CMs (which we should be focus firing on constructing as many as we can right now right?)
>rolling for the above decision on economy.

>Do you want a DIPLOMATIC adviser, or a CULTURE adviser?
I think we need a Cultural Advisor for the time being. Focusing on cementing our society and clave into a united front, so we don't all splinter at the first sign of serious contention. From there simply saying "hey, we take talented people" should be enough.

>ACTIONS WE SHOULD BE TAKING
We -are- devoting our CM's run times to making more CMs right now right? And then doing that until we've got 2-3 CMs pumping out more CM parts full time and assembling them until we've got at least 1 CM per Collective Ship?

>>38244536
>Do you want a DIPLOMATIC adviser, or a CULTURE adviser?

I think Diplomacy is more important now, there's still a lot we need externally - but I'll wait for consensus.

>Describe how your reputation/economic system works, and how (roll for democracy!)

I'll propose some things, but hold of on rolling right away, I want to get other opinions first.

I say that we should build an internal rep system based on the Circle-A List first, and get everyone used to the idea, before we plug them into the wide world of the @-List. We'd start everybody off with a little bit of rep as kind of recognition of their efforts up to now. Somebody gives you a trade in good faith, or gives you an item as a gift, that's +rep. Somebody makes something for you or otherwise links to something you want or need, that's +rep. Somebody does you a solid +rep. Somebody produces content you like, +rep. Somebody renegs on a deal or trade, that's -rep. Somebody wont share or give you something they don't need (keeping in mind we count sentimental or otherwise personal property as an intangible resource) -rep. They produce content you don't appreciate, -rep. Somebody keeps begging for favors but never does any in return -rep. This should then all start amalgamating into a good rep score which can tell you how solid the community thinks of any given person - and how credible they are for goods and services. Same with micro-collectives.

Otherwise, I suspect our "economy" is fairly labor based. While we're not hitting the autonomist dream of 4 hour mandatory work per week yet, we generally probably have people pick up work shifts - you can either elect your work shift (good for specialists) or take the lottery, and you can probably trade shifts with another person, or take extra shifts to give yourself more free time slots in the future. People who take extra shifts or make solid trades probably deserve +rep.

>cont

>>38245503

Public services like fabricators are generally first come first serve. If you're not in the fabber queue or are behind in it and you want, you can try and trade slots with somebody else. Materials are recompiled from waste materials - and should cover most basic items you might want (tools, clothes, etc). If you want something that is either not in the library, or the raw materials aren't accounted for by the Collective's recycling and resource harvesting efforts, you need to provide your own blueprints and feedstock. If you don't have feedstock, you can trade or be given it. Hoarding is a quick trip to a low rep, and extortion or other such practices would violate the first law. You can always use your free time to try and gather more materials or do other projects you want - though the Collective asks similar to micro-collectives, anything you make or gather that you don't need, please either donate to the collective as a whole or to individual members in it.

>>38245503
>>38245654
I'm behind this idea fully. And it should be an easier sell to everybody who is less than convinced it'll work.

We tell everybody to give it a try for the next few months until we hit Mars. Then everyone can decide if this is what they want to go with.

Also. Can I ask a favor? We're not quite out of Earth Orbit Yet right?

Can we put out some Comm. Buoys that give a constant transmission on a wide area of the mesh as many of our blue prints and designs as we can get out there?

Help everybody left behind as much as we can before leaving?

It seems like the good thing to do, and by the time the LLA and the PC catch on, we'll be long gone you know?

>>38245888

We are planning in parking in what could generously be called PC space, though. They might not own every habitat in Martian orbit, but they control the important ones.

Assuming Batteries 1 through 6 are built, anyway.

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>>38244536
>Come up with some more microcollectives!
The Space Confessionals Collective is a group of psychiatrists, psychologists and psychosurgeons, founded to improve the baleful state of transhuman mental health following the loss of Earth. Currently they're working on voluntary psychiatric interventions to improve the lot of infomorphs and synths who are having difficulty adjusting to life outside of their original bodies. There's also a project laying the groundwork for a cognitive augmentation program that will hopefully help get many of the baselines in the collective 'up to speed' with their transhuman neighbors, especially once we start pulling infugees out of dead storage. This hasn't made them exactly popular among certain minorities of the population, who see even a voluntary program to "upgrade" sections of the populace as at best patronizing, at worse a form of eugenics.

Arguments, orderly parliamentary debates and fistfights regularly break out over hot button issues like whether a seriously depressed ego has the right to self terminate, what sort of psychiatric interventions are acceptable to treat destructive behavior, and how long backups of a patient should be kept in case they ever decide they'd like to revert to a past mental state.

>Describe how your reputation/economic system works, and how (roll for democracy!)
The main scarce resource the collective allocates among its members is runtime in highly dilated simspaces, which are allocated on a first come-first serve basis weighted by factors like experience and urgency. A faction within the collective has been pushing for some kind of governing body or triage board to better allocate simspace time, so far they've been resisted by the majority.

>>Do you want a DIPLOMATIC adviser, or a CULTURE adviser?
Culture, probably.

>>38245888
>Also. Can I ask a favor?
Sure, why not. Not worth a ton of rep, but your hearts in the right place.

>>38246017
I like this, especially the religious bent. Potentially very effective, what with the recovered darkcasting gear, but also potentially controversial.

>>38245654
>Public services like fabricators are generally first come first serve
A note here: thus far a good chunk of your internal capabilities have been slated to group-mandated tasks, with personal stuff being second or third priority. If you start relinquishing group priority on industrial resources, you're going to start losing productivity quickly.

>those bird names
Sooner or later you are going to run into a neoavian collective and they're going to be going 'like, not funny assholes'.

>Advisor
Culture seems to be winning. Pick one, then.

>Anwen Chong: An outgoing businesswoman from Indonesia, with a knack for tit for tat dealmaking and conflict resolution. Brings people together with dance, music, and shiny toys .Tends to be a bit patronizing at times.
>Tomas Mazin: A local politician and community organizer from Singapore whose easy ways and friendly demeanor have helped him cement popularity and keep people together through charisma more than anything else.
>Erik Hauser: A librarian and stoic community leader from the *Lifeboat Pie*, a bit fatalistic or cynical but undoubtedly effective at noticing problems and keeping people happy when stuffed in like sardines. Prefers more solemn deliberation to blowing off steam.

>>38246868

>A note here: thus far a good chunk of your internal capabilities have been slated to group-mandated tasks, with personal stuff being second or third priority. If you start relinquishing group priority on industrial resources, you're going to start losing productivity quickly.

Well, the CMs are Collective property, and their only major task should be making more CMs, as far as I know. Since those require some assembly at the end, I'm sure we can schedule some downtime where they're open for other tasks. The smaller fabricators we can start dedicating to public products including some dedicated public times (again, most habs coordinate so that major group tasks get done in non-peak hours) and generally I don't know what personal items people could really want or need at this stage. We should be passing out ectos to non-meshed members like free candy.

>Sooner or later you are going to run into a neoavian collective and they're going to be going 'like, not funny assholes'.

And then we're like "I'm sorry, are any of you even from Egypt? Did your culture create these concepts 5000 to 6000 years ago? Cultural appropriation much, avians?"

>Anwen Chong: An outgoing businesswoman from Indonesia, with a knack for tit for tat dealmaking and conflict resolution. Brings people together with dance, music, and shiny toys .Tends to be a bit patronizing at times.

I supposed Culture should be Culture.

>>38246868
>>Erik Hauser: A librarian and stoic community leader from the *Lifeboat Pie*, a bit fatalistic or cynical but undoubtedly effective at noticing problems and keeping people happy when stuffed in like sardines. Prefers more solemn deliberation to blowing off steam.

>>38246868
>Tomas Mazin: A local politician and community organizer from Singapore whose easy ways and friendly demeanor have helped him cement popularity and keep people together through charisma more than anything else.

I like this guy, hes the only person who actually has formal political training. Also he is the most well balanced of everyone.

>>38246868
>A note here: thus far a good chunk of your internal capabilities have been slated to group-mandated tasks, with personal stuff being second or third priority. If you start relinquishing group priority on industrial resources, you're going to start losing productivity quickly.
Group Priority First.

Then Rep Base amongst Micro Collectives

Then Personal Rep Base.

Higher your Rep, sooner you get stuff and the more you can use from collective resources?

First priority for the collective is to make more Fabbers, Makers, and CMs so that there's less of a grab for run times.

I'm torn between Anwen Chong and Tomas Mazin.

The Neo Avian collective can deal with the fact we're picking mythological beings. Not real ones.

>>38247066
>Anwen
>>38247132
> Erik
>>38247164
> Tomas

> 3 way tie
Well, fuck.

>>38247164
>>Tomas Mazin: A local politician and community organizer from Singapore whose easy ways and friendly demeanor have helped him cement popularity and keep people together through charisma more than anything else.
>I like this guy, hes the only person who actually has formal political training. Also he is the most well balanced of everyone.
Same. Let's go for this dude.

Also on the front of the CMs.

We focus on building more CMs until we have 4 on Horn of Plenty.

The first 2 made focus JUST on making more CMs until every other ship in the collective has one CM. Those will be the public CMs.

The Third one will make mesh parts so we can get a Collective Mesh functioning.

The Fourth will make weapons parts so we can arm up every single ship with a rail gun.

Is everyone okay with this plan? If everyone is, then we probably need to democratize it.

>>38248099
Before my vote Erik had dropped from the running because of a vote for the other two. With mine, Tomas is on top.

>>38246868
>Tomas Mazin: A local politician and community organizer from Singapore whose easy ways and friendly demeanor have helped him cement popularity and keep people together through charisma more than anything else
seems like a pretty solid choice.

>>38248138
>Also on the front of the CMs.
>We focus on building more CMs until we have 4 on Horn of Plenty.
>The first 2 made focus JUST on making more CMs until every other ship in the collective has one CM. Those will be the public CMs.
>The Third one will make mesh parts so we can get a Collective Mesh functioning.
>The Fourth will make weapons parts so we can arm up every single ship with a rail gun.
Just putting this plan up front and center so people can see it clearly. This should get us everything we need faster.

>>38248166

That sounds reasonable.
>Erik

>>38248099
Current votes are:
Anwen: 1.5
Erik: 2
Tomas: 3.5

>>38248166
thirding this plan. It'll get us the Horn of Plenty turned into a proper material production base, and the spread out CM production will give us way more things to work with faster. It'll allow simultaneous fabbing of multiple systems.

>>38246868
>Sure, why not. Not worth a ton of rep, but your hearts in the right place.
Not worth a ton of Rep but it'll help some people and it'll also endear us more to the r-rep and @-rep factions. We need that right now.

Also guys. Just a thought.

What if we forget about taking the Junta down? That's not something that's going to happen easily... no... we need a symbol beyond anything else if we want to unite humanity into a common front.

We need to reclaim earth.

We invest into geoengineering projects and military research. We begin to build allies everywhere we can on reclaiming Earth once we're settled. A place that humanity can fuck and breed and spread, not a fucking tin can. And no matter HOW fucking messed up earth is? It's going to be easier to readjust than Mars or Venus will be.

First step would be lowering the temperatures and carbon requestration from the atmosphere, not a terribly difficult job since we have that technology TODAY (for the cost of producing a brand new car you can build one of them today and it filters as much carbon as a coal fire plant puts out each day, and bonds it through chemical processes into rocks so it's ridiculously hard to get back out.)

>>38248860
The operation would be massive... first we'd have to take the Kilamanjaro station obviously... nothing for that. It's THE beach head we need.

Then we'd make a public statement. Turn over control of the interdiction barricade, or we'll bring it down ourselves. Replace it with collective controlled killsats as we move through it.

Then begin cleansing operations of the area around Kilamanjaro. Complete cleanse. Nothing lives or moves in the horizon line of that area. That's our beachhead. The build up zone. From there we start to push out.

First goal is the elimination of pretty much 100% of the titan population. Probably means we'll have to collapse EVERY old structure left on the planet... we can try to preserve the REAL historical monuments, but for the rest... break them down, deconstruct the materials, run them through the fabbers to build new things. Nothing else for it.

Only once we've killed off every exsurgent on the planet, that's when we'd begin reterraforming the planet. Minimal occupation of the planet to begin with, enforced by the interdiction web if necessary. Only people already down there, scientists, and military for mopup opperations while we repair the environments.

Once that was done? Once biodiversity had been reestablished? Then we could begin recolonization.

Much bigger project, and MUCH more likely to get everybody in our good books than attacking the Junta.

>>38246868
>Erik Hauser: A librarian and stoic community leader from the *Lifeboat Pie*, a bit fatalistic or cynical but undoubtedly effective at noticing problems and keeping people happy when stuffed in like sardines. Prefers more solemn deliberation to blowing off steam.

>>38249496
>>38248531

Current votes are:
Anwen: 1.5
Erik: 3
Tomas: 3.5

Tomas Mazin is a popular figure on the Lifeboat Pie, the Phoenix, and the Horn of Plenty, though not liked so much on the Persistence of Vision and other ships. He wears a pod morph that was designed as a 'domestic servant', and wears a smartsuit set to a sort of loose formality. He greets everyone with a smile and a handshake, and makes everyone feel like they're the most important damned person in the room when he talks to them.

Before today, you didn't think 'somewhat sleezy politician' came in 'cyborg'. Still, he's popular, and if he lacks any sort of real political philsophy, he knows when people are worried or upset.

"Look, I know we're good for what we can promise. You know it. But everyone else? They're still waking up from a nightmare. You tell them they'll have a body, a new home a new society in a year - they don't believe it. It's unbelievable. They want to believe, but they don't know how. And it's our job to let them."

Grip pads on the soles of his (polished?) smart shoes find purchase on the kiva floor. "Representatives are one way. Giving people someone they can trust personally to fight for them. Money is another - fiction or not, people trust it. Reputation - well, I think using the circle-a model might help, but it's new to a lot of people. If we want them on board, we need them to feel like we have something to lose - like they have some leverage, or that we have concrete promises that they can point to and demand action. 'Eventually' isn't going to cut it - we need a deadline."

>>38250390
Dead line is 1 terran year within habitating the first Asteroid.

They all must understand that just GETTING there is going to require all of us pulling together!

But! BUT! And this is important. We recognize all of the ships in the collective need to feel they have a REAL voice, something that can bring clout to the table. We need a proper Full Collective Body. All Micro Collectives that are not within another Micro Collective will have a voice there. Primarily though, it will be the Ships, the Habitats that will have their voice.

Does that seem fair to everyone? That way every ship is represented for certain, and the smaller intership interests are capable of having their voice as well.

For the economy. I think we need to ask for everyone to TRY the @-Rep economy.

Think about it guys? We all lived in the traditional economy ages ago. Can even ONE of you think of a time when the rich didn't find a way to keep making themselves richer with their already gained riches? Did ANY attempt on Earth do more than slow them down? Really?

Within a month (see: >>38248166) we will have begun putting CMs on every single ship. We'll be in a post scarcity economy here. By introducing money, to make it effective, we'd have to introduce artificial scarcity, and look what that's gotten the Hypercorps ehn? The Hyperelite and the indentured serfs.

We can do better than that.

But. We know this is a big risk to take, we're asking for you to try it on faith. So. When we reach Mars orbit as our first stopping point, we'll hold a meeting, everyone will have a chance to speak, to suggest what changes need to be made, if any, to the plan.

But we need to take into account we're going post scarcity here. Money was used when you couldn't just press a button, and get a meal, or a tool, or an ecto. Within a month or two? That'll be within our grasp.

>>38250589
>>38250390

Alright, I like this guy.

I like him, because I can't tell if he actually believes in our collectivist principles, or he knows that's what Phoenix Command wants and he's being a good salesman.

He's the Face guy we've been looking for this entire time.

To be clear, I'm not moving the timeline forward very much (maybe once or twice more?) because I want to save major timeskips for between threads. The longer term questions are things we can debate now, and I can pull together into a larger update I can write over the course of a week. The various plans on CM's look good. You don't need that third CM to do dedicated mesh networking'; you can handle that with regular fabricators and salvage.

In the mean time, planning for what we want to do, and interludes for everyone! Here's our current 'canonical' list of collectives and characters:

Microcollectives:
>Murder (of Crows) - military collective, specializing in space defenses. Working on interceptor designs. Also some piloting and navigation.
>Roc - military collective, specializing in infantry tactics. Experimenting with squad tacnet cells.
>Argus - Dedicated to the collection and analysis of news and social media from the outside world
>Parisian, Pekin Duck - rival food microcollectives
>Thoth - research and education. Something for all those bored academics to do, also political theory.
>Space Confessionals - therapy and psychosurgery. Competes with Thoth on some education.
>Horus - internal security and networking.
>The Cabal - engineering collective, handles most major fabrication systems and design tasks.
>PNN - Phoenix News Network, publicizes information from Argus internally and broadcasts stories to the larger world.
>Void Union - handles outside safety, vacwork.
>Rebuilt Collective - handles issues for synthetic morphs, and controls the synthetic factory in the belly of the Phoenix.

Individuals:
>Tomas Mazin: A local politician and community organizer from Singapore whose easy ways and friendly demeanor have helped him cement popularity and keep people together through charisma more than anything else. CULTURE adviser.
>Kelly Davis: 3rd Year Engineering Student (with a NASA internship!) A bit unsteady, but well read. ENGINEERING adviser.
>Mohammed Salih: Egyptian naval electronics operator, has formal training in aspects of military thought and technology. Skilled at reading a situation to see which way things are turning. MILITARY adviser.
>Teng Shi Fong: A blue-collar vacworker that's been using a skillsoft to act as a team leader. Has a gift for clear thinking in combat and spatial awareness, but no formal education.
>Jihng Sih: Dedicated anarchist activist and skilled fighter who led the renegade Carolina mission. Reports to an unknown 'teacher'. Patient and methodical.
>Thomas Jonas: English academic with a sociology background. Manages some teaching and research functions.
>Kingston Lao: Leader of the Thoth collective, formerly a negotiator and leader of his Singaporean institution.

>Maraja Cabral: Scientist that worked for the Lifeboat Institute. Knows more than she lets on.
>Kevin Chong: Vacworker, in on Maraja's...expanded knowledge.
>Sun Zhang, experienced corporate engineer. Family issues, a bit of an asshole. Practical.
>Josephina Oreles. Brazilian military engineer, not as educated. Has PTSD, but knows military tech.
>Imam al-Cairo: Spiritual leader of the /Persistance of Vision/ . A young dreamer who is doing his best to help people through difficult times.
>Chinh Nguyen: Old soul and community leader on the Horn of Plenty. Over a hundred years old, with a storied career, he speaks infrequently but precisely.
>Erik Hauser: A librarian and stoic community leader from the *Lifeboat Pie*, a bit fatalistic or cynical but undoubtedly effective at noticing problems and keeping people happy when stuffed in like sardines. Prefers more solemn deliberation to blowing off steam.
>Anwen Chong: An outgoing businesswoman from Indonesia, with a knack for tit for tat dealmaking and conflict resolution. Brings people together with dance, music, and shiny toys. Tends to be a bit patronizing at times.

>>38251719
Adding a Microcollective:

Gaian Nest: Focusing on efforts such as artificial pedogenesis and similar efforts. Primarily drawn from researchers working in the hydroponics areas, but the crowning glory of their set is 3 researchers out of Brazil's university system that were studying how to cheaply and efficiently reproduce the efforts of the mesoamericans in producing Terra Preta.

Can we have an internal review microcollective as well? That is, a collective whose sole purpose is to be able to accept requests for transparency and then dispense said data to the public. This would mean if anyone suspects influence anywhere along the line, it can be investigated.

>>38251719
Undeath Collective, sometimes Wraiths: a small infomorph-only collective that humanity should abandon having permanent bodies at all. Focuses their efforts on improving the Rebirth Collective's simulspace environment and getting into arguments about infomorph rights on the wider internet. Vaguely suspected of exhumanism. Name was chosen as a deliberate counterpoint to Rebirth Collective.

Farsight: one guy who just will not fucking shut up about how the convoy should be going for the Kuiper Belt and the Oort. Main impact on the larger Collective has been to spark a debate as to whether or not one person can incorporate themselves as a microcollective.

We could also have an interfaith collective for those who still have some form of religious beliefs. Would be a good way to make the collective nicer, also who knows, a few shrines would look nice on our ships.

>>38252292
Xiezhi Microcollective: Named for a chinese mythological beast capable of discerning truths from lies. This collective is formed from an adhoc of people from various other walks of life and even other micro collectives (since participating in multiple collectives is possible, just not multiple representation). They insure that transparency is kept from top to bottom for any power base, and their own members voluntarily record regular XPs including surface thoughts as well as constant sousveillance on their own persons to put themselves beyond reproach.

>>38252412
>Farsight: one guy who just will not fucking shut up about how the convoy should be going for the Kuiper Belt and the Oort. Main impact on the larger Collective has been to spark a debate as to whether or not one person can incorporate themselves as a microcollective.
If the Collective as a whole hasn't recognized them due to not having a sufficient population, then he's a guy CLAIMING to have a micro collective without having established one for reals.

>>38251719

Black-0ut: A privacy and identity "enhancing" collective formed by advocates related to groups like Datacide or low-level internet criminals. Focus on providing VPN or other encryption services, basic cryptography, anonymous mesh accounts, identity "alteration" (read: forgery) and protection and experimentation with crypto-currency. Rumored to have built an entirely anonymous mesh server and be tied up with red market services like narcoalgorithms, scorchers and gambling.

Data Angels: Hardcore anarchists mostly from the pop on the Horn of Plenty, they function on a strict non-hierarchical adhoc system. Primary efforts are focused on bringing the Rebirth Collective fully into the New Economy and on networking efforts with the Autonomist Alliance (especially anarchist habs like Locus) as well as spreading the message of anarchy to the collective. In their ongoing mission to tear down all forms of Tyranny, the Data Angels have made a secondary "business" in the collection of pirated software, blueprints and media content, jailbreaking or cracking data or objects with DRM and other copy protection and attempting to develop AI expert systems to automate these processes.

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>>38253248
>What's more important, the data or the jazz? Sure, sure, 'Information should be free' and all that- but anyone can set information free. The jazz is in how you do it, what you do it to, and in almost getting caught without getting caught. The data is 1's and 0's. Life is the jazz.

Bump.

CM? What's the deal with the plan for the Cornucopia Devices? Does it go through? What about our roll for the economy choice?

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>>38253248

Once again, two opposing forces met in one of the Horn of Plenty's rec rooms. Several of the people off shift felt the storm brewing, and had quickly decided to find other things to do with their free time, while others sat in distant corners eating corn-based ration brick and streaming the whole thing live.

Rosalinda Acqua finished a string of curses in her native Italian, before switching back to the commonly accepted English. She pointed a finger in accusation at the matte black synthmorph standing before her. "I know your group has been performing encrypted radio communications. We also know a group somewhere has been building and installing anonymous mesh nodes. I want to know what your excuse is for this blatant attack on transparency!" Acqua was the most prominent face and voice of the Data Angels, dedicated to anarchist ideals and removal of tyranny in all forms (especially digitally). While she made no claim of leadership, she was often the one chosen by the group to voice their opinions. She's been a computer tech on the UNS Bohr, but after the ship had encountered the Collective, she'd almost immediately "defected".

The person she was butting heads with was just known as "Black". Nobody was exactly sure where he'd come from, just that he'd been on top of the morph queue one morning and nobody had complained. He said he used to work with privacy advocate group Datacide. Black had then immediately distinguished himself by helping the CM crews fabricate some interesting radar absorbent materials - which he had then immediately bolted onto his frame, giving his body a weird, angular look. Black went on to found "Black-0ut" a micro-collective dedicated to providing services of privacy or identity management (something many former criminals in the fleet found useful), but who were often caught up in rumors of "red market" activity.

>cont

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>>38254985

The two groups were often "fighting" both on the mesh and in in-person arguments. Rosalinda was even making it a point to bother Black in person, who often used his mesh inserts "privacy mode" to hide his physical location or otherwise stay out of the spotlight. Their latest argument was about Black's alleged DarkNet setup, where according to Rosalinda they were "siphoning" Mesh access for a completely anonymous service of communication and software sharing - which consequently was developing into a bit of a source of rumors of other underground activities.

Black folded his arms and leaned slightly toward Rosalinda. His faceplate was completely smooth, now attempt to form expressions, it's only feature a skull painted in white. His voice came out heavy with electronic filtration, not even attempting to sound human. "Listen, Rosie, I've told you 1000 times. We just offer people a service. The chance to keep some of their personal data private, just like they would property. We've never claimed to operate any kind of DarkNet service, and any experiments in that regard are on original members. We do nothing to inhibit the transparency mandated in micro-collectives or anything else. I mean, if it's alright to break data, why isn't it fun to lock it up?" The last question held a surprisingly mocking tone. Rosalinda flushed and angrily started, "We're preventing tyranny of information, all you do is enable anti-social behaviors!" Black leaned in further, his own voice getting angrier. "Black-0ut is not responsible for what our customers to with our services, that's on them. Just like our Collective wont be to blame when the Consortium takes offense to your piracy efforts... You've heard the rumors about them cracking down in IP theft."

>cont

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>>38255018

Acqua looked like she was about to start another impassioned speech about how IP /was/ theft or something, but Black cut her off, now talking in a low tone only a few people could hear. "Look, we don't have to fight, kid. We've helped you getting those software exploits and identifying crypto protocols. And you've helped us alter Mesh IDs and other registration information. Take a lesson from our comrades from the east, we can be like Yin and Yang." Black deliberately looked past Rosalinda to Mayu Saito. While they weren't open about it, Mayu was the real heart of the Data Angels in terms of skill and direction. She'd been picked up by the original Phoenix crew as an infomorph, just another infugee, though now lots of rumors were going around that she'd actually had her morph impounded by one of the orbital hypercorps, and had spent a few subjective years in a penal simulspace until she'd taken advantage of the disruptions of the Fall to break out using simple internal exploits. The Data Angels had recently pooled some of their extra shifts to get her a new body, a Synthmorph which was very delicately crafted by Rebuilt to have a very feminine appearance, though her blank, almost doll or statue-like face was slightly off-putting. Mayu acknowledged Black's look and words, tilting her head slightly then nodding.

>cont (so, I may have miscounted how many characters I had)

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>>38255051

Rosalinda's eyes went a little unfocused, obviously getting some communication via the Mesh on AR. Her mouth worked without saying anything a couple times, clearly biting back some more expletives. "Just kiss her already," said someone from behind Black, a slight Eastern European accent. Black shot a glance over one shoulder at his own second in command, Lys. She was a heavily cybered up Splicer, multiple replacement limbs, rows of access jacks in her neck, part of her skull and one eye replaced by metal and plastic composites. Lys was a hardcore anarchist and hacker who had been very beat up over the years of fighting the establishment in what even today was called the "former Soviet bloc". She'd originally run with Jihng Sih's crew, but had split when Black formed Black-0ut. "That would require both to have lips" said a quite woman's voice in Japanese - Mayu. The handful of members from both groups who understood laughed, breaking the tension. For now, the fight was averted.

Not one to just give up though, Rosalinda threw her hands up in mock surrender. "Alright Black, you can plead out on this for now. We all have autonomy so it's not your responsibility to say what everyone does." She fixed him with her best glare, which wasn't really that good since she was a little short for Splicer standards. "But we're watching you. We'll catch the people doing these underground transmissions - should be nothing to hide among Friends. And if we dig up you guys actively participating in any antisocial behaviors, it'll be straight to Horus! Or-" Black interrupted her, familiar with this song and dance. "Or the Collective with a proposal to vote to disband Black-0ut, yes I remember what you say to me Rosie - even if you can't say the same. I'm going to play ping-pong now on my off shift, I know you'd hate to stop me." Rosalinda made sound like an angry cat, spun on the heel of her micrograv shoe, and drifted out of the rec room, muttering cursing all the while.

>>38252579
>Xiezhi Microcollective: Named for a chinese mythological beast capable of discerning truths from lies. This collective is formed from an adhoc of people from various other walks of life and even other micro collectives (since participating in multiple collectives is possible, just not multiple representation). They insure that transparency is kept from top to bottom for any power base, and their own members voluntarily record regular XPs including surface thoughts as well as constant sousveillance on their own persons to put themselves beyond reproach.
Should be a micro collective under Horus. Maybe Anubis Micro Collective instead? Otherwise I'd say it's perfect.

What are the rules about waiving your rights? Can microcollectives have rules that differ from the collective constitution as long as all the members agree to them when they join? For example if the psychosurgery guys wanted to include a clause that anyone caught ego trading or deliberately mutilating minds gets erased

What's our stance on the death penalty anyway?

>>38257354

Considering 90% of transhumanity just died, permanent death sentence is probably not high on our priority list. Most autonomist habitats perform exile, while in the Inner System, serious crimes are a trip to court-ordered behavior modification, penal simulspace or cold storage. As much as we have a couple guys talk about ideological purity (and I agree, sometimes you should just shoot people) our populace probably doesn't have the stomach for it - especially given our professed goals. Our highest order of punishment should be exile - or if you're dangerous enough we don't want to inflict you on some other polity, indefinite cold storage.

Technically, we've provisioned that a micro-collective can govern itself and form it's own rules - so long as they don't violate Collective rules, but those only apply to it's own members, who are volunteers and can leave at any time.

>>38257354
As long as everyone agrees upon joining the micro collective, and they aren't forced to remain, I think that might be fine. Oh, also, they can't break the First Law about not profiting at the expense of others.

I'd probably also look really askance at anybody asking for their guaranteed rights to be stripped (the 9 rules under the first law).

I say, for the moment, as long as somebody doesn't threaten the entire collective with destruction or tries to do slave trading or anything, we'd just ego-cast their ass to the nearest habitat? Or cold storage them then exile them into autonomist space?

>>38257703
>Considering 90% of transhumanity just died, permanent death sentence is probably not high on our priority list.

I don't buy it. Transhumanity's morph shortage is currently far greater than its ego shortage. There's no reason to give bodies or runtime to thugs and murderers, not we have plenty of infugees in dead storage

>>38258831
I still think we'd baulk at permanently offlining somebody unless absolutely necessary.

For most crimes, temporary cold storage while we export your ass without any possessions, provided you aren't going to work to help repay the person you harmed.

For truly heinous crimes like trying to destroy a habitat or sell people into ego slavery, that's a death penalty.

>>38244536
>>Come up with some more microcollectives! (What's the name of the security one, btw)
Dzerzhinsky's Reprehensibility

>>38258831
>>38258917

Yeah, even with so many people already in dead storage, it's still kind of a huge waste to just up and permakill somebody when there really are that many other people who are permanently dead. In cold storage at least, you can get them back if you feel for some reason you need them.

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>>38253248
>>38254985
>>38255018
>>38255051
>>38255186
>pics
>internal conflict
>interesting characters.
Stealing that shit right now.

>>38251719
A week after departure day, or D-day as it has come to be called (the joking references to Normandy by history buffs are almost entirely missed), you're more than two million kilometers out from Earth, and still going. You can hardly see it from here. The vacworkers don't know if that's better or worse than it was before.

The synth factory continues to humm along, taken over by the Rebuilt collective, offering maintenance to synthetic collective members, as well as helping to customize robotic designs and help newly resleeved individuals come to terms with their new meatless existence. For some, it's not easy.

The constitutional convention has come and gone; though not without modification. The two main changes form the proposed constitution: individual collectives can impose 'exit costs' on members, or inflict punishments even in the fact of an individual who wants to leave, though subject to collective-wide voting and judicial procedure. This was added under the umbrella of things like 'betraying specific trusts in the collective', such as confidentiality agreements, slander/rep manipulation, and other issues where the collective itself feels best able to judge a crime committed, and leaving the microcollective under bad terms must be punished. One proposed punishment is being rep-zero'd - having all positive reputation rendered irrelevant, leaving only the disgraceful act itself as the condemned's only reputation, though no one has actually implemented such a thing.

(cont)

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CM production is under way. You still only have one, but the second will be up shortly, and after that the plan is to convert the space that was used for the plasma rocket assembly into a CM factory, so you can turn your CMs into more general use, and especially build a fusion reactor you can use to keep your ships warm and functioning as you get farther and farther from the sun.

Your networking with the Autonomists and Argonauts also proceeds. The Autonomists are helpful mostly in setting up your reputation network, and getting you started on using it; they are, in a way, leading economists in this field, and you'd have doubted that you could do it without their help. With individual rep scores and a newly assigned and managed rep score for the collective, you are now, figuratively at least, joined at the hip of the Autonomist Alliance. They are also useful for general advice and getting specialists or other helpful people to find you and help you; some that wouldn't give you the time of day before are willing to lend a hand now that you can give them +@-rep. At the same time, requests for similar aid come in, and you are limited in your ability to help, due to distance - but if you can help, you do. Collectives like the Data Angels add further assistance in cracking DRM and helping the AA in other ways. Your rep is slowly starting to climb again.

What the Autonomists aren't good for, unfortunately, is the blueprints. Oh, they'll share them, but your engineers question the useability of some of them, and the safety of others. Modern DRM is powerful, and very sneaky, and many of the designs are things you could already build in slightly different flavors.

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What is helpful on this front is the Argonauts; by comparison to the AA the Argonaut downloads are clean, helpful, and include designs for things like 'healing vats' that you'd have a hard time trusting if it came from anyone else. They provide them free, with no reputation based gatekeeping or waiting; the downside is that there is no support besides 'RTFM'. Getting support, or access to other Argonaut resources, *does* require rep. For now, that's stagnant, though some research and dedicated technoprogressives are in on it. As you understand it, the Argonauts are talking quite intently to the Don't Look Back and Archipelago, members of your fleet.

Finally, your black mark with the social networks known collectively as guanxi seems to be receding, for reasons that are not widely known, but certainly suspected. Some think that the black mark is simply fading as memory of the Carolina Days assault fades, and the knowledge that we've been 'punished' discourage further reputation attacks. Others think that there are services being offered and negotiations being had outside what the open collective acknowledges.

The other change to the constitution looms ahead of you, of course. It was the deadline of two years after constructing the habitat for the collective's "body for everyone" to kick into effect. That's a tighter schedule than you would have liked, but it's the best you could get. It's 1.24 AF, and you're on your way to the stars.

>Who do you want to talk to on mars? Is there anything you want to buy or do?
>What kind of habitat do you want, and how should it be designed?
>How do you plan to get @ rep? Or r-rep?
>With time on your hands, what kind of social or political theories are you pursuing?
>Write Moar Interludes!
>Be back next weekend, maybe sooner!

>>38259995
>Who do you want to talk to on mars?
We're going to need more info on who's there to talk to. Get the intel analysis microcollectives on that.
>What kind of habitat?
I'm thinking a simple torus to start with. We can get fancy with our later expansions.

>>38259995
The recorded discussion collective is a social science research collective working in anti-instrumentalist modes on what most people would consider the micro-social instrumental elements of being social and economic. Basically they write, and do group interviews, about specific concrete economic and social behaviour, and then go through distillation and test processes on the reports.

While the side effects of this are theorising and "doctoral" students, the core effects are a better and more considered self reflection of the community to itself as a self-empowered economic organ. Think about how "The Economist" works for capitalism as a movement—that's kind of what's going on. There is another nasty side effect other than theorisation which is methodological individual confessionalism: basically the tendency to elevate "Jiang's" story above collective stories, and to narrativise the stories as stories, rather than as practical, "why did that collective work so well," material. These are unintended side effects. At full capacity (4 hours a day work), each collective member will produce around 4 individual reports of 2000 words—most of these are coauthored—they also unfortunately produce one 10000 word theoretical paper per four members each year.

>>38260216
Comparatively speaking, the theory papers produce random positive, null, or negative research reputation. Usually as one big hit in the two weeks after publication. The reports produce steady positive rep at a low level.

>>38259995
>Who do you want to talk to on mars? Is there anything you want to buy or do?
We should look into a couple of jobs in return for workable blueprints for healing vats and pod/morph creation tools, we can cross reference with what we currently have.
>What kind of habitat do you want, and how should it be designed?
Either bee-hive or torus I guess. I'd go for Bee-Hive to start.
>How do you plan to get @ rep? Or r-rep?
See: >>38260216
Which is consistent theories and output for r-rep. Even some of the @-rep people should be interested in the conversations coming out of this.

We also keep close records and several of our members are publishing journals, XPs, and collected research on our days coming out of the Fall and how a fresh-out-of-earth community is adapting to the changes necessary to become both an entirely new social, political, and economic mode than ever before. Earlier AA societies rarely had people on hand SPECIFICALLY recording these things when not spurred on by hypercorp investment in testing socio-political-economic theories, and as such a 'wild' example should be worth quite a bit of R-Rep, and the dramatized version of it should get us some @-Rep as one of the first groups producing a dramatized serial series on the Post-Fall life.

In terms of @-Rep, we probably can release some XPs of our military thing, the Carolina Days mission must have gotten SOME hits and the XPs of it should be interesting to say the least. Earn some tidy rep for everybody involved.
>cont

>>38260523

>With time on your hands, what kind of social or political theories are you pursuing?
Well right now there's probably a healthy debate going on between people here and in the Adventurer Capitalist. Friendly rivalry right now between what should or shouldn't function.

One of the things we're really trying to do is get some of the other ships to let us take scans and make copies of their existing gear in return for help on their ships and installations of things. This will probably only be freed up once we have the CM factory made.

>>38260523
>>Who do you want to talk to on mars? Is there anything you want to buy or do?
Jobs we should look into taking. Corporate Espionage (make sure to keep copies!) for anybody who can give us the stuff we need (try not to alienate anybody who can deny us critical resources like the courier hypercorp), criminal hunting too. I mean serious criminal hunting. Like going after those Triad Scum some more.

We get a chance to earn some money sticking it to the Red-Market? We should take it.

Same if we can do some privateering against pirates and slavers and other scum (not the AA kind). Let's be big goddamn heroes.

>>38259995
>>Write Moar Interludes!
Kingston Lao stared at the blue print hovering over his ecto. While it might not be possible to test just yet, it was impressive, exceedingly so, even given his very basic knowledge of engineering an physics.

"Mr. Ebo-"
"Please, just Jafir." The Arabic infomorph said, projected onto the AR net in front of Lao. "Anyone who lets me use their personal ecto and convinces others to let me network theirs together to increase processing power for a theoretical experiment can only be called a friend in these times, and I don't let friends call me by my last name."

Kingston smiled and nodded, then gestured again to the blueprint, "Jafir, how sure are you that this device would work if built?"

"Fairly certain, the theory is sound, and the metamaterials involved were something my lab back in Cairo was heavily involved in. Easy to produce if we can get the right equipment for it, well, uranium purification primarily since plutonium is a required element in almost all the metamaterials involved in construction, as well as a few other trans-uranic elements."

Kingston pauses, that upped the production cost quite a bit, but the possible applications were enormous... especially given the past few years.

"Why make this? I mean what spurred you?"

Jafir pauses for a moment, his infomorph avatar seeming to consider for a moment, before he nods and says "Because of what I saw before my ego got away... the TITANs had broken through finally, I was in the last wave of people trying to get out... the last thing I saw was a deconstructor nanoswarm devouring my cousin and his wife as I was uploaded."

Kingston stares at the blueprint again, steepling his fingers.

"If the guards had had this... maybe they'd have bought more time."

"A technically man portable ion-scatterer... built specifically to destroy nanites."

"Yes."

>>38261076
feel free to ignore this if such a thing would break canon. Just felt like "if I was a physicist and had engineering help... and my loved ones had been devoured by what was basically grey goo... I'd sure as hell want to develop something that would specifically stop nanoswarms in their tracks."
And then thought about how luna and other cosmic radiation exposed areas were some of the places nanites naturally just died in, even the titan variety, so there you go.

hmmm... wonder if I should do some write faggotry on some low end scientist from the early stages of the TITAN project being part of the Bohr?

I have family that actually has visited the types of instillation that do those projects, lower level scientists are shuffled in and out so they never learn exactly what they're working on. If the thread is around tomorrow might do something on such a scientist who suspects he worked on the earliest stages of the TITANs before being switched out.

>>38263496
Go for it. I'd like to avoid "my character was the architect of the TITANS and super special" but what you described sounds okay. You might also have any number of people who were unknowingly following TITAN directives, perhaps up to the final stages of the war.

>>38261105
Pretty sure anti-swarm defenses are in high demand, and using ionizing radiation is probably one method; if its feasible similar mechanisms will exist as homebrewed devices and classified systems. The question is really "how well will this work on a TITAN swarm, even though they're total bullshit hax on every other level" to which the answer is probably "not very well".

>>38259995
>Who do you want to talk to on mars?
I'd like us to engage as many as work co-ops and other work-centered collectives as will reply to us.

Tell them how we've organized our work and resources so far (basically the equivalent of a bunch of spreadsheets), ask for their constructive criticism and alternatives, and see if we can help them with any of our expertise.

The @network on Mars is probably organized enough for us to find organizations that are somewhat similar to ours, and while our circumstances are different (planet-based vs space-based), we should network and learn from each other (and maybe get a bit of rep from the conversations?). We can reach out beyond the @network, but I think we should start there.

I'd propose the communication be spearheaded by (but not restricted to) Thoth and Cabal.

Argus will probably spend its time soaking up as much as the Mars networks are releasing publicly (I think the crew is probably starved for some new vids, XP, etc.), and Parisian and Pekin Duck will probably fight over what biopunk code they can pull to bring Martian cuisine into the fleet.

If Murder and Roc feel they can make contact without alerting the authorities, they should reach out to the Barsoomian insurrectionists for their military tactics and strategy. They've fought TITAN remnants and hypercorp stormtroopers, and their knowhow would be invaluable.


>How do you plan to get @rep?
The simplest way would be set our selves up as a body shop. recently freed indents and @rep folks with infogee caches (like the one we have now), and up our rep as we pump out nonDRM morphs with nice customization. We're still not set up for biomorphs, but once we are, I think our "everybody gets a body" ethos would help us garner rep.

We also need to offer sanctuary and safe haven to smaller @rep groups and find a way to transmit out our art/rep-worthy media.

>>38260647
>sticking it to the Red Market

I'd agree that that end is admirable, but this seems like a fairly big decision. We've formed two basically military microcollectives, made a splash with a small military action, but planning to pirate the pirates is scaling up considerably.

Is the collective willing to gear a solid chunk of our resources and time to combat? Being defensive and performing small military actions is one thing, but actively hunting pirates is another. We can garner beaucoup @rep returning goods/egos to their rightful owners and donating anything we don't use.

This also brings up the issue of military readiness in general. Is it useful for our larger goals? Do we want to be the Swiss, with a printed assault rifle in every low-g hammock?

I'd say yes, as it keeps military action relevant and visceral to everyone, denying any internal military force the power to disconnect or centralize power. We cannot lionize our military workers; they have to be just as accountable as anyone else.

>>38260523
>morph creation tools
Seconded. We need a serious advance in our efforts for biomorphs.

>first hand accounts of post-Fall
OP can tell us if the networks are over-saturated with this stuff, but we'd probably have to have some very unique stories and perspectives to qualify for any real @rep.

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Bigger question for the collective: reproduction and children.

With a community of over 600, I'm guessing the issue of children and babies is starting to come up often. I don't know how many of our members are minors now, but I doubt it's many. But people have a natural desire to foster new life, and a habitat without children can get depressing and insular.

The process of including children into a community strengthens it (how do we teach a developing intelligence to insure informed consent when it joins the Collective?) and reveals weaknesses (children usually ask why the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes).

First of all, our carrying capacity isn't great, but I think we need to make room for them, along with adequate systems to help them grow into members of the Collective. Does anyone have a strong opinion about encouraging or discouraging population growth from natural births? I'd lean towards the former. While a lot of Fall survivors may be going child-free, my guess is that a lot of people want children to help them rebuild their lives.

I'd imagine a lot of the mothers, aunts, and grandmas (along with some dads) in the fleet have been discussing this loosely, and by now have enough members for a microcollective. I'd propose we call it Mother Goose (unless there's a better Chinese equivalent), with focus on pre and neonatal care, working with Pekin Duck on child nutrition, working with Thoth and Space Confessionals on designing curriculum for children, helping parents organize daycare, and finding child-appropriate work duties. They would also be the folks to announce births over the local mesh, welcoming our new friends. Last, they would encourage growing minors to organize themselves and advocate for their own issues without explicitly directing them.

>>38267078
I don't think we have any exowombs.

>>38267206
I'd assume we still have a few of the Mk. 1 models walking around.

>>38267239
I wouldn't. And I don't think the people with them would actually want to use them anyway.

>>38267271

I think ze means that our biomorph people have regular reproductive systems ready to make babies (unless our splicers are sterile?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr0rDW5j1KU

Many of the music services in the fleet ran some kind of commemorative programming as the ships left high orbit, and when Chenguang sat by a porthole on the Walk It Off to watch, she tuned into the BBC-Archive station.

"Yes, I'm being followed by a moonshadow.. moonshadow, moonshadow."

The pod morph certainly wasn't perfect when it came to imitating human functions, but it could still cry pretty well, and Chenguang felt the tears roll down her cheeks as she watched the Earth shrink a bit. Her father, one of those ancient Shanghai anglophiles, had played Yusef Islam in the apartment all the time. If they had had some sort of funeral, she would included this song to play as they lowered the casket.

But now there was a chance that she would never return to Earth, never find her father's bones in the rubble (not that there had been much chance to begin with), and the song was the only private ceremony she could afford for him. She hoped the old man would be proud of her now. She leaned her head against the porthole material and whispered the last verse:

"And if I ever lose my legs, I won't moan, and I won't beg,
Yes if I ever lose my legs, Oh if... I won't have to walk no more.
And if I ever lose my mouth, all my teeth, north and south,
Yes if I ever lose my mouth, Oh if... I won't have to talk...

Did it take long to find me? I asked the faithful light.
Did it take long to find me? And are you gonna stay the night?"

>>38267305

If that's true, we'd have to prioritize regular-g environs for pregnant moms (I think Walk It Off is the only one right now).

>>38259995

>social theories
I think our new constitution will create some new social problems that will need real addressing, so I think any social theory will arise in those circumstances. Are there any serious problems the fleet is grumbling about (besides CM access)?

>>38268296
Well, your engineers - really your most critical personnel at this point - don't feel they're getting the rep that they deserve, because, in part, their jobs are sometimes not very interesting, or someone who is critical to the process isn't recognized because they're not really good at this 'networking' thing, or they're just sort of an ass, and unlikely to shape up.

The same is try to a lesser degree with your vacworkers and maintenance people. This is a known problem and there are some known fixes solutions, but no set of fixes works right for everyone.

>>38269487
The primary solution is the phatic social behaviour called "stroking," which might be better termed, "ego wanking" them.

>>38269652
How are we celebrating each others' achievements in general? I imagine there are some spontaneous parties, and people make small gifts, but beyond something simplistic like "Engineers Day," what would make them happy? Do they already get CM queue bonuses?

How long until the AA-advised rep network is up and running internally?

>>38269487

Maybe our engineers should offer to work with groups like PNN - do a little reporting on how they keep us all alive. Reporters get +rep for good and credible stories.

>>Who do you want to talk to on mars? Is there anything you want to buy or do?

We should hit up any interested parties from Extropia (and friends) or Titan who might be interested in investing in our venture(s), or who can sell or trade us any mining or hab infrastructure equipment we need. This includes "public service" tech like body banks, ego bridges, etc. Also, we can talk to the proto Barsoomians who definitely exist with the PC cracking down and the Martian population ballooning up. We can trade our own DRM-free, open sourced and proven blueprints for boosts in @-rep (addressing a below problem).

>What kind of habitat do you want, and how should it be designed?

Easiest thing to do when asteroid mining is build a Beehive. Spaces we excavate for resources are sealed and pressurized (if even) for living space and other functions. However, we should also plan a decently sized Torus to orbit the Asteroid for external functions and for any engineering and living to be done in "gravity". We also should announce plans to make a asteroidal cylinder or a Cole bubble if we ever reach sufficient population density.

>How do you plan to get @ rep? Or r-rep?

See above on @-rep. Gift our decent blueprints and more tested technologies. If we have any content producers, we find them and to maybe start working on projects together. Make art for the rep. They can form a micro-collective called Benzaiten (after a syncretic Japanese deity who governs all which flows: water, words, music, etc).

As for r-rep, have all our science types sign up on RNA. Offer consultation and advice, start offering teaching more broadly. Produce research or proper statistical information. If we have any pre-Fall data which might be unique or otherwise "lost" right now, they should distribute that too.

>>38267078

Well, children are rarer in the post-fall world, between not owning your own breeding rights and the often strict limitations on hab space. Also, if you're immortal, you have forever to do it, right? However, we also have a lot of people who were former underclass or conservative on board, and they may have a more strong call for family.

Personally, while I think we should respect claims of family, marriage, all that kind of thing - we're not in a great place for people to be adding new children. For one thing, we're almost entirely microgravity and will probably continue to be for some time - this messes with natural pregnancy. And the spin sections of our ships are in HIGH demand right now. There will be some members who will not be appreciative of minority support for biological mothers who need nine-goddamn-months of grav time - to produce a non-contributing member of society - especially when we have a huge backlog of infomorph citizens.

Luckily, this is only a major concern for our extremely limited numbers of flats. While Pods function sexually, they're all inherently sterile. And basic biomods includes internal contraception which you must disable. Some of our biomorphs may even have GRM to prevent disabling without appropriate authorization. That being said, I think we should not encourage citizens to have natural births unless they have some specific reason to. We can't allow our future generations to be born as flats. Genefixes and basic biomods for all - and that's a lot easier if you have an exowomb. Exowombs also can safely speed gestation and account for gravity. We should probably see about obtaining some on Mars (we can also use them to clone conventional biomorphs).

>>38270447

And remember, this is the transhuman future. Parents are just as likely to build a very proto-Ego for their children by merging pruned forks - make a child who is of both (or more) parents in mind and body. Or they may build AGI templates based on their own forks or neural templates. In fact, this might be the only way for some members to produce children who are truly their own, if they're not in an original body and don't have access to their original genomes. We have a lot of pods and synths. (And synthetic morphs for children are rough, you tend to have to up-size them regularly to match development rates).

We should build consensus and compromise. We want population growth, yes, but we should not overly favor what can be seen as a minority electing to do this the most inefficient and resource-intensive way possible. That's a short trip to major political strife.

>>38269487
Perhaps we should set up a system where working one of the "unsexy" jobs gets you a guaranteed ammount of rep per hour from the collective as a whole and allow/encourage individuals to "tip" in rep above that ammount. "like that new morph you're walking around in? don't forget to tip the folks down at the CM that made it for you!"

>>38270837
I've always thought that's how rep economies work anyhow.

>>38270919
for some reason I always thought it was more of a individual kind of thing where individuals provide rep bumps as they see fit rather than there being a structured pay rate for doing certain jobs.

>>38266805
I like this entire post. Nothing in it is incorrect. Everybody should have free and ready access to military training and equipment, though not necessarily to equipment that can blow up the habitats or render them impossible to live in for any one type of morph.

>>38267078
I'm all for encouraging births... but we need some exowombs and healing vats to insure they go well and the children are born healthy. Especially when the parents are odd biomorph/splicer combos that could have odd genetic defects crop up if not editted out early on.

>>38269487
We probably need to give these guys a massive rep bonus for every set number of hours they put in helping everybody out.

Also, teachers, those who train others? Need a constant trickle of +Rep amongst the collective for enhancing the survivability and redundancy of the group at the expense of their own individual importance. Anybody who makes themselves redundant and consistently does so, needs a +rep trickle going.

We probably need to set up some basic AI to monitor these things and check for trends. Probably these AI would be monitored primarily by our internal rep tracking group people (not Argus, the other one), but obviously fully transparent to everybody.

>>38270236
Agreed. We build a beehive for living space and 0-g living, and also begin construction on a Torus for gravitic work. Keep the Torus running at say, 1/2 earth gravity? Possibly with a faster spinning section that works at full earth gravity?

>>38270447
This is true. I think we need to ALLOW it, but have to make it clear to any parents that we literally CANNOT garuntee the lives of the children or their health at this point, not until we can get some exowombs and healing vats.

>>38270837
>>38270919
I thought so too? Boring and unsexy jobs should definitely get a steady flow of rep from the collective as a whole.

>>38271021
it varies from habitat to habitat, but in the vast majority, have some sort of AI that gives out '+rep' for the habitat alone for basic 'living expenses'. Basically, it's the AI that tells everybody if you're doing your mandatory 4 hours work a terran week, and if you're doing stuff nobody else would normally notice like lots of maintenance and such that keeps EVERYONE alive.

I'm really surprised we've not got that set up already... that's a basic feature of most AA collectives.

>>38270919
>>38271021

Well, the system is designed by groups who avoid hierarchy. Encouraging people to be aware and remember to +rep those who are providing their services is important but structured "pay" isn't how the rep economy is supposed to work.

If you do something which indicates solid reputation, you should get +rep from your peers. We could coordinate community initiatives to make sure people doing vital jobs are recognized properly though. Once we have social media functions up and Muses properly distributed, shouldn't be too hard to start putting that through the network.

Though that wont stop some people from having lower rep because they don't play well with others. Welcome to the rep economy.

>>38271149

>Keep the Torus running at say, 1/2 earth gravity? Possibly with a faster spinning section that works at full earth gravity?

.5 g would actually be a little novel in the system, I think. Most places mimic gravitation of planetary bodies.

>>38270062
>How long until the AA-advised rep network is up and running internally?
Now, basically, but being up and functional isn't the same as working particularly well for you. There can be adjustments and changes, places where local rep overlaps with or differs from @-rep.

>>38270505
>>38270447
Right now the universal availability of birth control (splicer have it built in, it's easy to make in fabbers for the few flats) and the lack of space or medical care have simply shut down all reproduction more or less voluntarily.

>>38270919
>>38271021
It can be both; you can get rep from your interactions with other people, or just for having a job title and being in a community that appreciates that job title.

The thing is that it's sometimes hard to adjust the rate of rep, meaning that sometimes a vital job is 'underpaid' and the most qualified people would rather, say, become cooks and get tons of rep from their excellent ration mixes than maintain the air filter. Obviously there are quick fixes for simple, obvious failures, but things like "have everyone vote to give that guy more rep" scale poorly and can create some perverse incentives.

There are a number of solutions for it I've thought of, but am interested in seeing what you come up with.