“Because Ophilian will be there to ensure nothing too out of the ordinary happens” you say “and we’ll say that she’s only going on the condition that the teachers aren’t too extreme and that if she gets hurt in training, the deal is off.”

“I’m still not comfortable with this” responds Sofia

“I know” you say “I know, but Sofia – what’re our other options? Either we never see each other again, some die-hard fanatic rules Dalvin, or Mili and Vivi have to live at court. I’ve been through training with the knights of Konig” you continue “as tough as it will be for her, it will still be a lot safer than politicking nobles.”

“Fine, fine!” says Sofia in a grumpy tone “but if this is happening, I have my own conditions.” And she steps forward to speak to Konig.

>Let Sofia speak
>Ask her what conditions
>Stop her, no conditions
>Other

Autism Anon: Please post your power suggestions at any time.

>>36482056
>Ask her what conditions
We may need to convince her out of some of them

>>36482056
>Ask her what conditions

>>36482056
>Ask her what conditions

Also, do you guys think we should speak to the King about convincing the nobles to build these hospitals. It would make citizens happy and strengthen the country, and nobles have been a thorn for him as well so he might go for it.

>>36482110
I certainly do.
Also I still support this


>Ok so 1 Konig will make sure that whoever is training her is not what we would term an "asshole" 2 Konig will be accountable for any harm that comes to her when she is training and 3 it is made clear that he finds the politicking of the nobles abhorrent and attempting to usurp the Kings authority simply because they don’t want to spend money to raise their realms to the high standards we have set will be looked down on.

Well this seemed fun in Southern Shores so lets try it here.

Come listen to music and chat with the QM when he's not busy being awesome.

https://plug.dj/paladin-of-joy

“Woah” you say, pulling Sofia back “what conditions?” Konig waits patiently.

Sofia turns to you “simple” she says, a grim smile on her face “he wants everyone to follow his rules, including Mili, he says her family is a distraction, tell me Sireyi, did you make many friends during your time with the muscle-heads?”

“Some yes” you reply, recalling your time training with the knight and Paladin candidates of Konig “but what’s that got to do with-”

“Then friends aren’t a distraction” says Sofia triumphantly “and Mili can make as many friends as she want.”

“I don’t see why not” you say, wondering where she’s going with this.

“And her friends can join her in training” says Sofia “no matter who they are.”

“Where are you going with this?” you ask, a little confused.

“Simple” says Sofia “Vivi, and any of Mili’s friends who want to, are allowed to train with the paladins too – hopefully having friends around her will help stop her losing her way.” She adds in an even lower voice “and I’ll make sure her friends are as diverse as I can – Konigs Paladin Academy might soon be about to graduate its first Succubus.”

Ah.

“I had thought” you say “to be allowed to approve her teachers, to stop her from coming to any harm and that the church makes a public statement condemning the nobles politicking at the expense of the welfare of the ordinary folk.”

Sofia nods “I can see that being a good idea.”

>Accept Konigs offer (no changes)
>Use Sofias condition
>Use your conditions
>Use other conditions (what?)

Only the first option is exclusive – all others can be mixed.

>>36482241
>Use Sofias condition
>Use your conditions
Lets start negotiating!

>>36482241
>Use Sofias condition
Might be tweeked a bit but I like the way she thinks.
>Use your conditions
Because being in a position of authority means one has responsibilities to match and some of the nobles have forgotten that. Konig might see the merit in that reasoning, maybe.

>>36482241
>Use Sofias condition

>>36482241

>Let Sofia speak and outline her conditions, pipe in if necessary to moderate

>>36482241

I'm going to suggest again to build more barracks and etc in Dalvin, and to support any expedition his paladins might have that crosses our lands.

I don't know how interested he will be in it, but it's something to try to sweeten the deal for him, as I still want to accept unconverted succubus in our realm; this is the cause of this whole mess, remember? Letting go of it makes everything that happened so far for nothing.

>>36482345
I'll support that in addition to the winning option.

>>36482345

Like expeditions into blues sister's realm to wipe out demons?

>>36482241
>>Use Sofias condition
>Add the public statement that politicking at the expense of welfare is awful in his opinion.

>>36482380

Maybe. The two Sireyis are supposed to be opposites, so it makes sense for them to have conflicts.

>>36482241
>Add another condition.
Some sort of visitation right. Being away for half a year is awful.
>Age 8-12
Once per week we may visit for a couple of hours.
>Age 12-18
Once a month we get two days.

Alternatively:
We don't do the 6 months in one chunk! Break it up into chunks and have her come back in-between.

>>36482415
Wait what? They really aren't opposites. Fundamentally (other than the demon thing) D Sireyi is just angry and doesn't have the empathy that Sireyi does. Also, I don't think expeditions in her realm to wipe out demons will go well with the succubi we saved considering they are likely to be the ones getting hunted.

You step forward and say to Konig “We have a few conditions”

He raises an eyebrow “and these are?”

“Firstly” you say “any of Milernas friends who wish to join her can train with her as well.”

“Not everyone is suitable for Paladin training” points out Konig.

“Some of the training academies have ties to mages guilds and adventurers guilds” you counter “in case knight-candidates need training in other areas – and to allow students training in those places to have access to knight specialities such as mounted combat” and you add to yourself, they tend to have the less fanatic instructors in those places, to avoid unnecessary conflicts with the other schools.

“My point” you say “is that even if Milis friends aren’t suitable paladin trainees, they can still be undergoing training in other skills whilst being able to socialise with her, I don’t want to cut her off from her friends.”

Konig nods “and the others?” he says

“Sofia and I” you say “are allowed to approve Milis teachers – we don’t want her taught by extremists; she must not come to harm during her training, and your church must announce that the nobles politicking at the expense of the wellbeing of the common folk is something you find abhorrent.”

“Training accidents are common” points out Konig “you could use her grazing her knees as an excuse you withdraw her from training – she will have priests and paladins with healing powers on hand. I will agree to her not coming to any permanent harm, or say, any harm that requires bed-rest longer than a day.”

He continues “You may observe her lessons but you do not get to choose her teachers. I have no problems with my church making such a statement.”

“How about” you say “in addition, if we build additional barracks and churches across Dalvin, you allow some Succubi to settle there.”

“How many?” he asks

“I haven’t spoken to the succubi leaders yet” you admit “but I was thinking no more than 20% of Dalvins population.”

>>36482454
I actually proposed that last session: alternate between one month at training and one month at home year round, but Konig might not go for it.

“In the interest of fairness” says Konig “I agree to Mili being able to train with her friends, and to having my Church make the statement about the nobles, provided that you accept that Mili may come to temporary, not permanent, harm in training. And in return for you building more churches and barracks across Dalvin I will agree to either you approving her teachers or having a certain number of Succubi settling in Dalvin, but not more than 10% of the Baronies mortal population.”

>I can’t agree (ends conversation)
>Deal
>Other offer (what?)

If deal wins
>Pick teachers
>Succubi in Dalvin

>>36482487
>Deal
>Succubi in Dalvin

>>36482487
>Deal
>But without the baracks thing

>>36482487
>>Deal
>Succubi in Dalvin
Truly extremist Paladins will probably turn her away more than anything.

>>36482487
>Deal
>Succubi in Dalvin

He is her flesh and blood I doubt he wants her taught by extremists either.

>>36482487
>Deal
>Without the idiotic addition
Seriously, where does that shit even come from. Why would we want to build even more of a powerbase for this guy, considering how much trouble he makes us

Ya know... I am actually incredibly surprised by how reasonable this guy is being.

>>36482487
>Deal
>Succubi in Dalvin

>>36482487
>Deal
>No additional building of churches of his

> Letting go of it makes everything that happened so far for nothing.
No it doesn't. The point was enver having them settle specifically in Dalvin, as long as the get a place to live under our rulership, that was the point.

>>36482529
For the Lord of life whose first objective would be us and our barony. We need more power and support to fend off an assault by them.

>>36482535
Getting an attempt to indoctrinate his offspring is a HUGE deal for him. He already pretty much lost Sofia and knows he needs to offer us quite a bit to get on our good side again.

>>36482535
Speaking of which, was it just because of Sofia and Mili we got this deal and a reasonable Konig?

>>36482553
>and our barony
Not our barony anymore. Sofias barony now.
And All the money we spend on building those churches could be spend on equipping armies.
Baracks and chuchres cost, you know, money.

>>36482553
And more power doesn't come from churches and buildings with no purpose other than bribing him.
It comes from investing money in recruitment and weapons.
Dalvin doesn't swim in money as of now.

>>36482575
>>36482566
Yes but having a powerhouse in terms of demon smiting having a base at pretty much the forefront of the battle would help. It allows Koing's followers entrench themselves and prepare for the battle. We invest initially but they will do the rest.

>>36482487
>Deal
>But he has to take both or the addition is off

Not worth it otherwise.

>>36482487

>Deal

>both
although I think we should exercise our power sparingly

>>36482601
>at pretty much the forefront of the battle
It will never be the forefornt, because we seit right between our sister and the rest of the Kingdom.
Secondary, building more baracks and chuchres doesn't mean automatically more demon smiters. That would require more Paladins, which won't be conjured by more buildings.

>>36482601
Plus some of them might get that stick out of their butt.

Ok, reaching a deal is unanimous, but to build extra churches or not is very close at 4/3 by my count, everyone who wants to go for it has voted for Succubi to settle in Dalvin (or both).

Therefore I am delaying deciding it until after conversation with the succubi.

Writing this, unless players are desperate to settle it now, in which I'll bring it up for FD vote.

>>36482601
That makes no sense you realise,yes?
Ho would having more baracks and churches create more paladins?
Thats just not how it works.

>>36482627
Sure, we can talk with the Succubi first. Seems good.

>>36482601
The idea behind building a trainingscamp in Dalvin itself, was originally so we could have Mili close at hand.
Which he already rejected, so there is no benefit to it for us, at this point.
We can get people with more smiting ability from Velya churches too.

>>36482627
Sure, I guess.

>>36482627
I'd wish we don't at all. But we can leave it at that for now.

>>36482618
We still don't know the exact power of the Lords of Life. When war comes those orcs may be turned into undead. The numbers could prove disadvantageous instead. It then turns into 100k+ orcs against our barony. And you know how much the nobles hate us, so I would doubt they would send much help even if ordered.

>>36482630
It means more paladins would be stationed there and more recruits/trainees for future manpower.

>>36482645
Velya is comprised of priests. Remember we are her only paladin.

>>36482627
Best compromise.

I still want those churches, though. Having the public backing / approval of two gods instead of just one would be helpful.

Also the Succubus / Paladin / Angels / other magical creatures combination will make anyone think thrice before invading.

>>36482627
Considering that settling succubi in Dalvin at the same time as more religious nutcases that want to murder them is a retarded idea, we can settle this whenever, it won't become a smarter idea over time.

>>36482663
If Koing himself agrees to it we can easily punish anyone breaking that promise/agreement under religious law probably.

>>36482660
>When war comes those orcs may be turned into undead.
What does that have to do with us being the frontline? We will still not be the frontline.
And no matter how much the nobles hate us, if literal zombie armies come at the kingdom, they will still fight them.
And Paladins don't come cheap, there won't be more paladins in the realm with those churches, only more in our barony, which is not a good thing with the succubi we want to settle nearby and in it, in case you forgot they kind of hate demons.
And when the lord of life attacks all the Paladins of Konig will help anyway, no matter where they are.

Kind of Off-topic, but do you guys remember the half-orc from thread one? I'd love to know what happened with him and his tribe. I know Sireyi is busy doing other things, but that should take very little time.

Sireyi could just scry for them and then teleport there.

>>36482662
>think thrice before invading
No it won't. The LoL doesn't give a shit, and he is the only one who concerns us.

And Yerra would be a better choice for getting gods on our side.

>>36482660
>Velya is comprised of priests. Remember we are her only paladin.
There is no particular reason this needs to stay the case.

>It means more paladins would be stationed there and more recruits/trainees for future manpower.
The benefit of that would be?
Once we get attacked, Konigs Paladins wont sit on their hands if they aren't in our barony, whatever their faults, they will fight evil.

>>36482689
I'm actually of the opinion that having the Paladins of Konig and other religious people constantly exposed to succubi just wanting to live their life and raise children and be happy will have a rather interesting effect on them. I'm sure that some are going to cause problems but I think they'll slowly start to become friends with or have friends who have friends who are succubi and eventually most of them will have to realize that demon != evil

>>36482700
I was mentally looking in direction of the Nobles who urged the King to show dominance.

It would still increase our defence against some sorts of plots the NK might throw at us.

>>36482689
Yes but what happens if they are delayed due to snow or other issues? Having a quick response team made up of smiters would be more helpful. How would we not be the frontline if the tribal lands fall? We are next to it, that is why we had the job of quelling the orcs. We are the first line of defense.
As for the paladin hate on succubus, Koing himself agreed and allowed to their stay in the barony. That is enough to force them to at least not openly smite the succubi. Religious law comes in play for this issue.

>>36482712
That is more of a Velya issue due to her more peaceful ways. We can't make more Velya paladins, only our own. We can definitely get angels for help but I doubt paladins.

>>36482717
>It would still increase our defence against some sorts of plots the NK might throw at us.
No it wouldn't.

>>36482713
It won't have any effect at all. The few reasonable Konig Paladins will already know this, and the unreasonable ones won't be convinced by that. And more importantly, the unreasonable ones will make life shit for the usccubi in the meantime. I don't consider making peoples live shit worth it to try to "teach them a lessson". I would prefer not carrying out our doctrine dispute over the backs of refugees.

>>36482726
>Having a quick response team made up of smiters would be more helpful.
Teleportation. And of course we could have response teams loyal to us personally equipped with holy weaponry for that much money. Churches and baracks are fucking expensive, we can raise a small army with that kind of money.

>That is enough to force them to at least not openly smite the succubi.
And yet they will try to find a excuse, constantly.

>>36482737
>No it wouldn't.
Yes, it would.
You really going with that sort of argument? It very much depends on what sort of plot. Anything involving lots of mook, which Bluey thinks will happen, will be easier dealt with by having some Paladins.

>>36482737
>It won't have any effect at all. The few reasonable Konig Paladins will already know this, and the unreasonable ones won't be convinced by that. And more importantly, the unreasonable ones will make life shit for the usccubi in the meantime. I don't consider making peoples live shit worth it to try to "teach them a lessson". I would prefer not carrying out our doctrine dispute over the backs of refugees.

What makes you say that? We've already started to change hearts and minds in our Barony with people toward the other races. I like how you presume that all the Paladins of Konig are always assholes and can't learn or grow, especially when their fucking God okays the settlement of Sucubutts somewhere

You look to Sofia, she nods reluctantly and you say to Konig “We can agree to most of that, as to building more churches and barracks, Sofia and I will need to discuss it, especially now that she will be Baroness, and not me.”

“Very well” he says “I eagerly await your response.”

And just like that, you’re back in Dornmer.

Across the other side of the field, you can see the paladins and priests of Konig falling to their knees, seems like Konig is holding up his side of the bargain.

After a few minutes they rise, and the priests of Konig have an intense discussion with the King, soon the two of you are walking across the field to one another.

“It seems” says the King “that the matter has been decided, I don’t know whether to be angry, or relieved. Still, what’s done is done, would you call Sofia forward please?”

And so it comes to pass that on a chilly hilltop one morning you are stripped of your rank, and Baroness Sofia is given Dalvin to rule.

---

Once you are back at your...no, Sofias keep you discuss your meeting with the Succubi Queen Vilyeten, due in a few days time. You have your close friends and allies with you, and you are all in one of the keeps setting rooms

“Luckily we were able to postpone the meeting” says your double, having visited in the aftermath of the change of power, and bringing her Sofia with her “but what are you planning on doing now? You can’t offer the succubi a chance to settle in Dalvin without building more churches and barracks loyal to Konig, and if they settle in the Tribal Lands anywhere I don’t control, they’ll have to fight for survival.”

“I will explain the benefits of Drache, the Tribal Lands and living close to the border” you say “and let them choose.”

Your double shrugs “Ok, then who is going with you to the meeting? And what security precautions are you taking?”

Who?
>Go alone
>Take (who?)

Precautions?
>None
>Spells/Powers/Other (what?)

>>36482726
>Having a quick response team
And why does that team need to be Konig Paladins? Instead of mages and warriors that don't have the downside of his doctrines in their heads?
Maybe you should taker a look at how much money ONE church of Konig cost us. And then think about how much more troops we could equipt with that. We can GIVE people holy abilities. We have zero need for Konig paladins to form a army in our barony.

>>36482745
So your saying even when their God openly proclaims that succubi are allowed to dwell in this specific barony. Paladins will still openly smite succubi? Secretly maybe or probably but definitely not openly. Its more probable the succubi get imprisoned by the paladins and then jailed/trialed unfairly compared to that happening.

>>36482757
Yes I am, because saying " it would do vague thing X somehow" is not an argument..

>>36482759
>Take (who?)
>Shahulzer
>Isla
>Our Sister ( to pitch her realm as option)

>Mind Blank on everyone

>>36482558
In-character? You don't know.

Meta: Someone raised an interesting point last thread about how governments and bureaucracies don't always reflect the character of their ruler.

Konig created a warrior culture in his church, and mingled it with the nobility, planning to raise the martial prowess and moral responsibility of the nobles of the realm whilst giving his church a lot of political power. What he got wasn't what he intended, but he's too stubborn to accept that and insists that it is still suitable, and just needs a few improvements and adjustments.

>>36482759
>Take (who?)
Ellahi, Sofia, D Sireyi

>None

>>36482771
>So your saying even when their God openly proclaims that succubi are allowed to dwell in this specific barony. Paladins will still openly smite succubi?
They will try to find a reason to smite succubi, which is already damaging enough on its own, cnsidering they bring no benefit to us and cost us a massive sum of money.
And I don't see how you can say "they will only secretly murder succubi" and somehow think thats a okay thing.

File: dance-of-joy-o[1].gif (5.62 MB, 320x218)

5.62 MB GIF

>>36482759
FUCK YEAH! FUCK! YEAH!
I'll back >>36482787

>>36482773
Dude, seriously? First off, the main reason I want those churches is political, not martial.

But Paladins are useful. They are a big help against any magical critters. That's a huge category. And that is not vague in the least, it's a very clear defined advantage.

>>36482759
>>36482790
>Ellahi, Sofia, D Sireyi

>Mind blank

>>36482771
>Secretly maybe or probably
Please think about this for a second, and then re-explain me why we should allow people we know bring trouble to our domain into it.
We can use that amount of money to equip our own forces, and we can build weapons giving paladin like anti-undead or anti-demon properties.

>>36482763
I have said this before. Koing paladins are the main church that smites demons. They are more battle specialized against demons compared to the others. Warriors lack the divine aspect and the experience. More mages are always welcome and we have been expanding on that.

As for the money aspect, we could have definitely asked the specifics but no one did. They only said its a waste.

As for granting people powers. We have constantly shown to be reluctant to spread them even with all the danger. If we wanted more then we would of actually voted in favor of it but we chose to narrow and limit our potential choices for a good reason. That is why we don't hand out powers.

>>36482759
>>36482787
That's reasonable for the most part.

If anyone else wants to come with, let them.

>>36482805
>They are a big help against any magical critters.
So are other magical critters we could get for that amoutn of mone. If we would get those paladins for free, I would consider them worth the trouble, but we don't.

And I stilll don't see any political advantage gained from, them. Stronger Konig church in Dalvin means all the bad parts of his church will also have more sway. You can't only get somehow magically only the good parts of a instituation when you invite it.

Fucking hell. These Konig haters are worse than the bloody Paladins of Konig. And those guys are right pricks.

>>36482794
I am not saying its ok. I am saying that it is more likely for secret smitings to occur than open. That means a drastic decrease in the potential crimes and allows us to focus on drilling the law into the majority of the paladins. If anyone breaks the law we can personally punish them and have their God do so as well.

>>36482813
>They are more battle specialized against demons compared to the others.
Just that demons aren't our problem.

>>36482843
Demons/Undead. I thought it would of been obvious with the Koing paladins being portrayed as the typical paladin who just loves 'justice'.

>>36482825
Political advantage against the other nobles in the kingdom. Who think we are wussies for helping the commoners. Another advantage of Paladins is their leadership aspect. If there is a zombie invasion, the common populace would flock to the Paladins. I seriously doubt they would flock to random magical critters, nor would those have been trained to instill order and all that.

It's not that important, though, so I'll leave it alone now.

>>36482842
>If anyone breaks the law we can personally punish them
No we can't because we don't rule Dalvin anymore.
And again, you are failing to explain what benefit they bring that makes up for the unrest they would cause.
All the arguments of using them for undead fighting apply just as much to the troops we could equip for the money. And those troops would be loyal to Dalvin, actually increasing our defences against potential plots of the nobility, while the paladins would claim neutrality in the matter. Because they don't like us a lot.

>>36482794
Also, I'm fairly sure that Konig is well aware of what his Paladins do. He is not one to suffer fools lightly, if they are actively doing shit they are not supposed to, he certainly seems like the kind of god who will bitch the fuck out of you for it.

>>36482808
Not only are our main army not as experienced as paladins and lack holy magic. We still need to expand Isla's enchanting building several times over and the mages/smiths needed to produce that amount of equipment. It also requires quite alot of time to properly enchant something.

>>36482866
>Political advantage against the other nobles in the kingdom.
I still don't see what that advantage is supposed to look like?
They got Konig churchen too.

As for the second part, they could just as well flock around the priesthood, not to mention we HAVE paladins in Dalvin, you argue for MORE Paladins. Thats a big difference.

>>36482887
Considering they have harassed Sireyi for her entire life and it didn't bother him, I don't see why he would step in for succubi.

>>36482872
Do you even read QM's posts? A few threads ago he posted how laws work in this kingdom. IIRC there are 3 types Kingdom, Barony and Religious. We can punish the paladins under religious law and I am sure Koing will allow us as its his own paladins breaking his own agreement.

>>36482887
>I'm fairly sure that Konig is well aware of what his Paladins do.
Obviously he is, and obviously he hasn't given a shit so far.

>>36482888
Then we can spend that money on hiring experienced warriors and equipping them.

>>36482901
>Do you even read QM's posts?
I have no idea what you are talking about at this point? What does this post have to do with anything I said?

>>36482905
We have to ask Pally about any mercs available to hire first and we don't know exactly when LoL will attack. I am fine for making the equipment first but we also need to pry out from our sister approximately what kind of force will attack us.

>>36482896
>>36482905
>I don't see why he would step in for succubi.
Because he has explicitly allowed them to be in the Barony?

You all act like a few Konig assholes giving Sireyi shit was absolutely terrible and shit. They didn't gang up on her and beat her or shit. They were hard on her and sometimes right cunts, but that is not matters for a God to get involved in. Paladins going around attacking and jailing innocents is a violation of their code, especially when in defiance of their God. Being an asshole is not. Also, Sireyi is a stronger person from having to deal with those assholes, it helps people skills anon.

Please roll me a Fellowship check 1d20+19.

To detect stuff.

>>36482932
Because you were saying that we couldn't punish the paladins because we don't rule the barony anymore. I am saying we can as its under religious law not the baron/kingdom laws.

Rolled 1 + 19 (1d20 + 19)

>>36482948

Rolled 15 + 19 (1d20 + 19)

>>36482948

Rolled 4 + 19 (1d20 + 19)

>>36482944
>Paladins going around attacking and jailing innocents
They straight up murdered a priestess of Velya because she did shit they didn't like.

>>36482949
We still can't punish them under religious law because we aren't part of the kingdom anymore. Sofia can, if anything.

>>36482948

Rolled 5 + 19 (1d20 + 19)

>>36482948

>>36482949
Religious laws can still only be enforced by those part of the kingdom. Which Sireyi isn't.
The only way religious law could make a difference in that situation is if Sofia sets up a church of Sireyi and makes its laws apply.

>>36482887
See >>36482789
He is deliberately suffering fools because he's too stubborn.

>>36482944
There were the Konigites that murdered a priestess of Velya for providing help to criminals; I'm more made about them than Sireyi getting bullied.

>>36482960
We are a saint under the church of Velya and we have made an agreement with Koing. We are technically still part of the church and kingdom. We should be able to under the law made by the churches be able to accuse and punish (With Koing's permission) anyone who breaks it.

>>36482960
>They straight up murdered a priestess of Velya because she did shit they didn't like.

And you don't think there were fucking repercussions? You honestly think that Velya was just like, "Oh boy! What a scoundrel you are! Don't do that again!" and that Konig just fucking shrugged his shoulders at a paladin of his killing the priestess of a allied Goddess? I mean fucking hell, you cannot be that delusional. Just because we didn't hear about consequences doesn't mean there weren't any/

>>36482970
Don't we have a church of Sireyi as a saint under Velya? Even if its small and has no members it should exist.

>>36482991
>Just because I have no prove for my conjecture doesn't mean my argument isn't completly hollow
Alright then.
Did you miss the part where Velya raised a Paladin because of that exact kind of shit?
That WAS her response.

>>36483002
We have worshippers, but we don't have a church.
More importantly, we have no church laws.
We would have to make those.

>>36482991
>Just because I can't prove my empty conjecture doesn't mean I can't use it as argument
Alright then.

In an abandoned wasteland...somewhere in the layer of Hell that used to be ruled by Salvastis, you and your allies meet up with Queen Vilyeten.

You’re in a valley between two looming craggy hills – hidden from sight from both ground and air, with you is your twin, Ellahi and Sofia, representing their realms, and Isla and Shahulzer, just in case. Ahead you can see a small party of succubi approaching, just in case this is an ambush or a trap of some kind you have cast a spell on everyone to protect them against scrying and mind-reading.

As they approach you count a dozen succubi, all are carrying spears of hell brass, and all are wearing mismatched, but good quality demon armour, also of hell brass. Leading them is a succubus that looks like a once-gorgeous woman with cropped blond hair, and a hard expression. One half of her face is scarred and deformed, as if her flesh had been melted like wax, and then clawed and bitten by monsters, or demons. Her single eye darts around warily, sizing up you and your allies.

“So you are this saviour I’ve heard about” she says, her doubt obvious in her tone.

“I am Sireyi Valyenya, Paladin of Velya and Saint” you say, you almost add *Baroness of Dalvin* but stop yourself in time. “And I don’t know if I would call myself a saviour, but I am here to offer you and yours a chance to live somewhere else.”

“Vilyeten” she says “alright, convince me.”

You lay out your proposal, Ellahi, your twin and Sofia chiming in at appropriate points to describe their realms, what it will be like living there, and the challenges the succubi might face. You describe how you might found a new domain for the succubi in the Tribal Lands, on the border of Dalvin. Isla and Shahulzer hang back, watching warily.

Vilyetens expression of indifference doesn’t alter, and her guards are all wearing full helmets obscuring their expressions, but from subtle, almost impossible to detect cues in their body language, you think this is something they want a lot, and are trying to mask how eager they are.

“Alright” says Vilyeten “If some of my people did want to go there – who decides who goes where?”

“They could choose” you say, “As long as certain population limits were not exceeded in certain areas, if they are, perhaps some sort of lottery system to determine who gets to go to an overly-popular area?”

“How do we know this isn’t a trick?” she says “some sort of trap to enslave or destroy us – angels have killed almost as many of my sisters as demons.”

>Convince her by talking
>Let her read your mind
>Other (what?)

>>36482056
>Autism Anon: Please post your power suggestions at any time.
I overslept by a lot.

A Redeeming Touch Deific Expansion that turns (primarily) demon-blooded/pure demon worshipers of ours who build up a sufficient level of good into angel-blooded/angels. Sufficient levels of good would be pretty high, enough that it would be virtually impossible for any demon or demon-blood planning to abuse the angelic status they're trying to gain succeeding, but not so high as to be unattainable for anyone that dedicates themselves to it.

Due to the fact that such a power would result in DP increases due to increased numbers of angelic worshipers, it should probably require a yearly cost of DP, maybe 1/5 (rounded down) of our yearly DP recovery capping at 5. (e.g. yearly recovery of 8 has a cost of 1, yearly recovery of 25 has a cost of 5, yearly recovery of 40 also has a cost of 5)

Demons/demon-blooded are consciously aware of when the angelic transformation begins happening and can choose to reject it if they want to.

The amount of good required for the power to start affecting someone is directly proportional to the amount of evil demonic power in their blood, so part-demons have an easier time than half-demons and so forth.

Non-demons can also be affected by this power, but it takes a serious concentration of good to do so, roughly equivalent to a half-demon. The reason is that it's easier for the power to transform existent demonic power into angelic power than it is for it to make new angelic power, so it requires a lot more base good to work with.

This power doesn't alter race in any way for non-demons, it just adds some angelic features (wings, hair/eye coloration, scars fade, etc) and powers. Non-demons affected by this power won't go beyond the quarter-angel threshold in regards to power and appearance alteration, they'll never access Apotheosis.

[1/2?]

>>36483027
>Convince her by talking
If she isn't satisfied.
>Let her read your mind

>>36483027
>Offer to take some of her subjects on a tour.
>Offer to have some demons from Drache vouch for us.

>>36483027
>Convince her by talking
>"I don't need that kind of trick, seeing as how I hunted down Salvastis in his own fortress, it should be obvious if any of you would deserve being killed, I wouldn't need to lure you intoa trap."

>>36483049
This power also won't ever result in anyone developing powers semi-unique to Sireyi, such as her elemental abilities, only regular angelic powers or powers based off their demonic ancestry.

This power *only* affects Sireyi's worshipers, nobody else, and at her current level of divinity, it probably won't affect people on different planes.

The power is semi-aware of people's motivations for doing good deeds, if (when) people learn about this power's existence, those motivated to do good deeds solely because they want the 'reward' will have to do a far greater number of good deeds (demonstrating commitment to the path of good, or at least doing enough to offset any selfish actions with the powers) or hope their mindset changes to the point where they're doing good deeds for the sake of good deeds instead of doing them for a reward.

Doing seriously evil actions post-redemption would result in falling, with the same rules as falling for angel-bloods/full angels.

Name suggestions are welcome, since I've got nothing.

Due to the semi-controversial nature of powers like this, I plan on bringing this idea up at the end of either the next thread or the one after that before making it into a proper power.

[2/2]

>>36483027
>Convince her by talking
>We have three demons with us, surely angels and demons have hunted succubi in the past, but would angels in demons team up for such an attempt?

>>36483027
>Convince her by talking

>>36483049
That sounds cool, but I wonder what makes it an expansion to redeeming touch?
Do we need to use redeeming touch on those that are supposed to be affected?

>>36483005
>>36483015
Ah I see. So we aren't allowed to make arguments without proof? Oh and no conjecture and extrapolating previous behaviors and calculating based on reasonable ones? Got it. Fucking come up with anything better than "thats just your opinion man" me instead of making a point against it. Fucking hell.
Pally, I am curious. What happened in response to the priestess of Velya being killed? Were the Knights involved punished? How does Konig view such events? How reliably does he punish bad behavior of his Knights, such as killing/jailing innocents and all around abusing their powers?

>>36483049
I love this idea, and vote immediatly to put it on our purchase list as high as possible.
This solves a huge number of arguments we had about risking undeserving people getting the transformation and means they don't need the holy pimpslap anymore.

>>36483109
>Oh and no conjecture and extrapolating previous behaviors and calculating based on reasonable ones?
Calculating based on previous behaviour is perfectly reasonable, exactly when did Velya punish Konig knights for acting against members of her church?

>>36483049
>>36483060
I think its great. Btw, we should probably get Titans Strength and Titans Endurance. I think the ability to shrug off any spell or hit might be incredibly important in the future.

>>36483109
I faiul to see how this adresses the fact that her response was raising Sireyi to be the defender of her church.
That was her response, I don't see why you get so mad about that.

>>36483135
I thought she raised Sireyi to be her paladin due to her innate divine spark and the relationship with Sireyi's mother. The less people know about it the easier it is to hide and Velya was the closest person that Sireyi's mother could trust with her child.

>>36483109
>So we aren't allowed to make arguments without proof?
Regardless of you guys conversation, its not a argument if there is no prove.
A Argument is something that supports your position or your claim in a discussion, so obviously it needs to be a thing that can be proven. I wished more people on /tg/ would understand that.

>>36483120
>calculating based on reasonable ones
We have no previous knowledge of Velya punishing Konig Knights, but it is reasonable to assume that a God wouldn't be okay with their followers killing the followers of allied gods.

>>36483150
>I thought she raised Sireyi to be her paladin due to her innate divine spark and the relationship with Sireyi's mother.
I'm fairly sure that wasn't a thing yet when pally made the quest.
If it was, I would assume it was killing two birds with one stone.

>>36483168
It is reasonable, ad we can definitly assume she wasn't okay with it.
Yet it happened, and we'Ve been told that Velyas church is constantly facing that kind of harassment. So it wasn't a singular incident that Konig was very sorry about and stopped having happen.
And pally already pointed out how what Konig would like his Paladins to behave like, isn't always how they behave, so no matter how much Konig might have disliked it, it can still happen.

>>36483169
It shall be something that we will never know. But he did put alot of effort in chargen so I wouldn't cross it out.

>>36483188
Its not impossible it was the case, true.
But I also think if it was the case, then raising a defender of her church was definitly also part of her agenda.
Velya strikes me as crafty like that.

>>36483168
The point was, it proves that Konig Paladins attack innocents, it happens, it has happened in the past and we can assume, based on previous experience, it will happen again.
See >>36482789

>>36483109
>What happened in response to the priestess of Velya being killed?

There was some inter-Church diplomacy as a result of the event, a negotiated settlement was reached. In return for the Church of Konig punishing the knights involved, and for the Church of Konig supporting and aiding the Church of Velya in certain areas (food and shelter for the poor for example) the Church of Velya did not push for a murder trial, and instead accepted the official line that it was an accident.

>Were the Knights involved punished?

Yes, but lightly for killing a priestess: they were censured and demoted, had to formally apologise for their actions and were quietly reassigned somewhere else.

>How does Konig view such events?

As tragedies, he accepts that by making his paladin enforce certain laws, sometimes innocents will be caught in the middle.

>How reliably does he punish bad behavior of his Knights, such as killing/jailing innocents and all around abusing their powers?

Obvious and serious abuses of power are dealt with very harshly, including stripping the offender of rank or divine powers, or even executing them.

However in cases where it's not clear who is at fault or exactly what happened, Konigs Church tends to err on the side of their own: doling out light punishments and warnings.

In other words, zealotry can be overlooked as long as the person in question is otherwise doing a good job but serious extremists or the very corrupt are punished.

Talking, please roll Fellowship 1d20+26

Use Angels Voice?

Y/N

Pro: It would probably impress them rather than offend them.

Con: You're in Hell, at a secret meeting.

Rolled 13 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36483246
>Y

Rolled 11 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36483246
N
I believe in our rolls

>>36483208
And? I do not see how increasing the amount of churches and barracks changes that. If it happens, then it is already happening because we have a church of Konig in Dalvin. You simply cannot write off an entire group because some of them are bad. I mean fucking hell, you don't think the sucubutts are going to kill a few innocents and make us execute them? There are always going to be problems but you anti-konig anons are acting like innocents will be gathered up and mowed down like wheat. Stop acting like they are more than anything but horrible relatively isolated incidents that no one is happy about.

Rolled 2 + 26 (1d20 + 26)

>>36483246
Y

>>36483246
N
If she wants us to demonstrate our powers, do it on another plane.

>>36483268
>how increasing the amount of churches and barracks changes that.
More Paladins = More Paladin incidents

Its pretty clear cut.

>but horrible relatively isolated incidents that no one is happy about
While this might be true for priestess slaying. Demon slaying will not be considered nearly as terrible by the church.

I'm not anti-Konig, btw. I like the old guy, as it is. I'm just realistic about the downsides bringing more of his Paladins to our barony.
A few Paladins are managable, like any small group of people.
Once we rbing more, oversight will become more difficult, and that invites "tragic incidents".

>>36483095
It affects all of our worshipers automatically, once they meet the conditions.

It's a Redeeming Touch deific expansion because it converts people into angels, and the only powers we have that are associated with that are our divinity and Redeeming Touch.

>>36483131
We really should, yeah. Our new Divine Energy pool will let us put it to good use, and our actions this year will result in a high influx of Paladin XP. No reason to not get it.

>>36483268
>And? I do not see how increasing the amount of churches and barracks changes that.
So you can't see how bringing more zealots into our barony makes zealotry related crimes more common? Really?

And demon smiting will not be considered horribly isolated incidents. It will be a steep uphill battle to get them accepted as it is, without more Konig hardliners running around making it harder.

>>36483293
Would we be happy if Konig promised to send only more moderate Paladins? Or if he ordered them to bring demons found in the barony to the church of Velya to be judged (barring extremely clear or extreme cases)?

Rolled 1 (1d2)

tie on using voice, rolling

1 - yes
2 - no

>>36483049
>>36483060
I'm leery about automatically transforming anyone. It could work as an automatic judgement-process, though. Have the semi-aware power be based on Sireyi's mind and it just cuts down on the time it takes to judge someone.

>>36483268
>You simply cannot write off an entire group because some of them are bad.
Except no one does that, otherwise we would be screaming to remove the Konigs church from the barony.
The point isn't that all Konigites are bad, I love Philly, but the more of them you invite, the more likely will it be that their bad side comes to show and becomes a problem. And I don't want that. As long as Konigs force stays small, we can manage the few that are there. Once we start having a massive influx through barracks and churches, we won't be able to anymore except after the fact.
And I have said it before.
I do not want to carry out our doctrinal disupute at the cost of the refugees. More Konigs means a dangert to them. It might be many cases it might be few, but the more Paldins of Konig there are, the more likely it becomes, its simple math.

>>36483314
>(barring extremely clear or extreme cases
This is the kind of ambiguity that worries me.
I would be happier about the Konig Paladins thing, if we make an agreement that only our angels are allowed to judge the succubi. Paladins may apprehend them if suspected of wrong-doing, but judgement lies with our angels.

I don't turst Konigs definition of "moderate".
Hand-picked, possibly, but that would be a huge amount of effort.

>>36483332
dis gonna be good!

>>36483314
>Would we be happy if Konig promised to send only more moderate Paladins?
I think Konig has a different understanding of "moderate".
We could try to attract the moderate ones like Philly by creating a suitable atmosphere that appeals to that kind of person, but how would we go about that?
Just building churches and baracks won't do that.

As for the judgement thing. I worry about that too, realistically, there will be bad succubi, and they could use whatever protection we give them against the Konigs and set us against eachother, on the other hand they NEED protection, so we have to be very careful what regulations are set.
Maybe allow them to capture and subdue succubi, but killing them or harm to them will be investigated and handled under the laws of the barony or the church of Velya.

>>36483347
>>36483311
>>36483293
I'm just done. I feel like I'm just beating my head against a brick wall.

A very small number of Knights will smite the wrong person. Big fucking whoop. That is well, well within reason. What Konig says goes, and if his Paladins hurt people. There will be a trial and people will be punished. Period. I don't know what the murder rate is in Dalvin but I am damn sure its many many times however many innocents are killed by Knights of Konig each year.

Also do keep in mind that the sucubutts are trained warriors so its not like they can't at least somewhat hold their own in the event that they need to.

>>36483314
I would be happier if we limit ourselves to only one church and barack complex instead of several churches.

>>36483344
Could you be more specific about what part of automatically transforming those who fulfill the conditions worries you?

>>36483437
>A very small number of Knights will smite the wrong person
Thats just pure conjecture on your side. We have been told and seen at every turn that this kind of zealotry is the norm, not the exception.
Just look at how the King reacted to our succubi.
They won't consider them "innocents".

>>36483437
>A very small number of Knights will smite the wrong person

>Doctrine of Konig
>Forbidden Actions: Refuse a challenge to personal combat; Permit evil actions in your presence; allow a criminal to go free; break the law (chosen a second time: permit crime in your presence); allow a demon to live; permit innocents to suffer in your presence (definition of *innocents* may vary); allow a demon-worshipper to live; retreat from battle without a good reason; allow a part-demon to live without constant supervision.

>Allow a demon to live

>>36483367
I'd need to know Konigs Big Book of Sins to make a precise cut-off, but it should be something like "If they are currently trying to kill someone, and they resist arrest, and the have been loudly warned, then you may fight them seriously." Something like that. With another clause, so that a Succubutt defending herself would not count as trying to kill someone etc.

>>36483437
>That is well, well within reason.
No it isn't. Killing a person because you got a hateboner for their wings isn't within reason.
Sure enough, some succubi will make themselves deserving of smiting, but I would prefer to leave that to those we can trust to make clear judgement on it, and we have been shown and told more than once, Konig followers are not reasonable when it comes to demons. Period. I am perfectly willing to trsut them to not murder innocents for shits and giggles. But they stop thinking when it comes to fiends, and thats not acceptale if we want to have the succubi start a life in Dalvin.

“We have three demons with us” you point out “angels and demons have hunted succubi in the past, but would angels in demons team up for such an attempt?” As you speak your voice rings with sincerity and conviction.

“Appearances can be faked” she says “especially when divination magics are blocked – yes, I know what you’re doing”.

“Taking reasonable precautions” you say “we both have enemies that want us dead. As for my offer, you can come and tour the realms in question, speak to whom you wish there and investigate fully before making your decision.”

She appears to waver, before asking “ok, let’s say for a moment I believe you: what restrictions would we face?”

“None in the Tribal Lands” says your twin “not initially anyway – I have a long way to go to civilise the orcs and beastmen there, once I convince them to stop using violence as their first option for settling disputes, then I’ll reconsider what laws are needed.”

“Few in Drache” says Ellahi “there are a number of laws concerning using innate magical abilities, but mostly as long as you’re not hurting someone, it’s allowed.”

“Quite a lot in Dalvin” admits Sofia “Existing laws need to be changed to accept the existence of demons in the realm, until they are, you’ll need to curtail your powers, once they have been updated I believe you’ll only face a few restrictions.”

“And our numbers?” asks Vilyeten

“As many as you like” says your twin, as Ellahi adds “no restrictions – on number of you moving in, or on future population control.”

“Not more than 10% of Dalvins population” says Sofia “and even that will require some concessions on my part that I’m not sure I want to make. Initially I would need you to restrict yourself to no more than 2 children each.”

>>36483491
See >>36483490

If people haven't read that yet, it explains why I needed to have this conversation about how reasonable Konig Paladins are with demons.

>>36483455
I feel like a broken record with this constantly.
>Pally what is the rate of occurrence of Knights of Konig doing bad shit?

>What is the rate compared with say.... the murder rate in Dalvin?

>Is this "zealotry" the norm rather than the exception?

>Is it reasonable to expect the Knights of Konig to obey their God and not go all smitey smitey on innocent succubi?

>Why do we have to quibble over this constantly if there exist definitive answers as dictated by the QM.

“And what about your new realm?” asks Vilyeten, giving you a searching look, as if trying to read the answer from your face.

Powers?
>No limits (yet)
>Limited powers (general description of what)

Initial Numbers?
>No limit
>Maximum of (what?)

Future numbers?
>No limits
>Not more than X children per succubi (what number?)
>Other limit (what?)

Note that this is initial offer, and you’ll have the chance to change things later if desired. Also, so far your new realm might consist *only* of succubi and angels.

>>36483443
Sireyi has been extremely cautious about whom to transform so far (though that seems to change). I fear that the automatic judgement would not always result in the same outcome as her personal judgement.

It is a very small worry, mind you. It'd just be happier if you expanded that idea to include the judgement being based off Sireyi's mind, or the power just linking that person to Sireyi's mind for a fleeting moment or something like that.

>>36483514
Because I'm not going to use out-of-character knowledge.

>>36483514
They do in fact exist, here they are
>>36483490
Oh look at that, letting a demon live is against his doctrine, surely then only very few Konig paladins would want to klll them.

>>36483490
>>Allow a demon to live
So how fits Konig's assurance that he would back us in letting demons settle in our realm in there?

>>36483520
>No limits (yet)
>No limit, but they have to be aware, everything needs to be built first. They would get to partake in creating a new realm for themselves, but it will be hard in the beginning.
>No limits, for now

>>36483520
>No limits (yet)
>No limit
>No limits

>>36483545
Maybe he would only send the Paladins that haven't chosen that Doctrine?
We could create undeads too, even if Velya wouldn't be perfectly happy about it.

>>36483520
>>36483546
Sounds about right. I would stress the "it will be hard" part. Its a opportunity, but also a challenge.

>>36483520
We have a new realm? (Sorry, only skimming the thread while doing other things.)

>>36483520
>No limits (yet)
>No limit
>No limits
There will still be laws, but also protection.

>>36483569
We will found a succubutt nation at the borders of Dalvin.
Well succubutt and angel nation.

>>36483520
>Don't harm others besides in defence.
>No mind-control.

>No initial limit.

>Not more than 4 children.
In a few generations the desire to have many children should go away naturally.

>>36483546
Sounds good.

>>36483520
new realm?

>>36483520
>No limits (yet)
>Within reason, obviously, no malicious use against others, outside of self-defense
>No limit on numbers, but there will be lean times. There is war on the horizon for our plane.
>No limits, until it becomes a problem. But for now there aren't any potential fathers in it anyway, unless they manage to seduce a angel or two.

>>36483514

[Meta]

>Pally what is the rate of occurrence of Knights of Konig doing bad shit?

Depends on how loosely *bad shit* is defined; Knights of Konig committing crimes in the course of their duties is quite rare, Konigs church is very law abiding.

>What is the rate compared with say.... the murder rate in Dalvin?

The murder rate in Dalvin is higher than the rate of Knights of Konig across Dornmer committing serious crimes (i.e. murder)

>Is this "zealotry" the norm rather than the exception?

No. The zealotry experienced during the hunt for the Horn was unusual. In any large group of Knights there will be a few fanatics, and the others tend to keep them in check. Large-scale abuses occur when the zealots are in the majority or a position of power.

>Is it reasonable to expect the Knights of Konig to obey their God and not go all smitey smitey on innocent succubi?

Konig will need to update his Doctrine to prevent his followers from killing Succubi purely for being demons. It's likely that a clause about not killing demons on the path to redemption will be added - with commentary from the church saying (for example) that any succubus in Dalvin is assumed to be seeking redemption unless seen committing a serious crime. It is expected that this will happen soon.

>>36483569
>>36483586
You are no longer Baroness of Dalvin, you do have permission from the King of Dornmer and your sister to settle succubi within the Tribal Lands, on the border of Dalvin. I am defining this as founding a new realm.

>>36483520
>No limits (yet)
>No limit
>No limits unless it becomes a problem
I'm assuming that our new realm will still have laws in relation to mind control, life drain and such that the succubi would only be allowed to use them with consent/in self defense.

>>36483620
>Large-scale abuses occur when the zealots are in the majority or a position of power.
And small scale abuses?
We didn't have such a situation before, so how likely are those not fanatic Konig paladins going to reign in the more hardliners when it comes to harassing or even assaulting succubi?

>>36483648
>And small scale abuses?

If a fanatic encounters a succubi on his own, with no witnesses then it's likely things will go wrong, and he'll make up excuses afterwards.

>>36483620
I'm pretty sure it was asked before, but I can't find it. So sorry, but can angels and demons, succubi specifically, breed with eachother in this setting?

>>36483669
But witnesses are likely to deter him?
What about the not-fanatics. Can we rely on them not falling on the "not letting demons live" habit?

>>36483530
The power's sense of good and evil that it uses for judgement would be based off Sireyi's, as the power is an extension of her divinity. As the primary qualifier for this transformation is a sufficient amount of good, it's extremely unlikely that it would judge someone worthy that Sireyi wouldn't.

I can add in a line about how it checks with Sireyi on a subconscious level each time it finds a suitable candidate if it really bothers you.

>>36483669
I meant more, leaning on the local people to distrust or ostracize the succubi.
I assume discipline in Konigs church is such that if he says it, most will follow.
So the spreading of a hostile atmosphere is what worries me more than outright murder, although its a problem of course.
Wihtout reinforcement from society, its very likely the usccubi won't shed their hell behaviour and start giving them actual reasons for the killing. It would be their own fault, true, but its a thing we can at leastz try to prevent.

>>36483722
>Sireyi hands out exaltation
I'm honestly surprised it took this quest so long, considering how much like Exalted it is.

>>36483722
As I said, it's a really small worry. I was just kind of worried about the judger being too dumb, or extraneous circumstances making it a bad idea to turn them angelic. (The second being mostly negate by their ability to refuse this gift)

>>36483673
>can angels and demons, succubi specifically, breed with each other in this setting?

No, as magical creatures with strongly opposing energies, they cannot without divine intervention.

However, mortals with angelic blood can breed with demons, and mortals with demon blood can breed with angels.

In theory Angel/Demon hybrids can happen, but there needs to be mortal blood in the mix somewhere.

Succubi can however, breed with almost anything else, regardless of gender, and with each other.

>>36483683

>But witnesses are likely to deter him?

It depends upon the individual: those that *are* willing to murder in public can be arrested, of course.

>What about the not-fanatics. Can we rely on them not falling on the "not letting demons live" habit?

Yes. The non-fanatics will follow the rules - if the rules change, they won't be aiming to murder succubi. They might not *like* having to treat demons like people, but only those who put their personal views above the churches rules will act on it.

>>36483732
Societal views will vary enormously. In Dalvin people will be largely very tolerant because Sireyi (now Sofias) approval rating is so high - if the Baroness says its ok, then its ok.

Across Dornmer attitudes will run the full range from *ooh sexy demon* to *burn it, I don't care what the law says*

>>36482049
I am confused.

Did we not just get arrested for some reason, because we raised our voice or something?

And did we not jump point of view to Sieryi but not Valyenya?

I was so looking forward to a conquest and liberation campaign with Sieryi but not Valyenya.

She would have been : "If you wanted negotiation and reason you should have done that with Sieryi Valyenya not me "


Ending in liberating Sieryi with a side dish of oops I accidentally conquered the Kingdom. You are Queen now, by dint of all other higher nobles being dead.

>>36483314
To pick this constructive angle up again.
Would the pro-churches side be willing to settle for one church/barack complex, where we can allow those Konig paladins willing to accept the sucubi on their own volition, to settle in our barony?
In case any succubi choose Dalvin.

>>36483828
While hilarious, it would have been terrible for the campaign at large.

>>36483831
I'm still not sure why it needs to be Konig paladins, instead of say, Yerra Paladins, why choose the one god whose doctrine and views we get along with he least?

I mean, I get it under the assumption of wanting succubi to settle in Delvin, but I have the impression, especially one anon wants this to happen anyway, so I wonder, why Konig instead of a god we have much more in common with? Yerra is already big on the "not-always-evil" thing, due to chromatic dragons. So we would have the least problems with those. And while they might not be as martial, we could definitly encourage the martial part of that church to settle in our lands, its not like its going to be a huge amount of Paladins anyway.

“I would set no limits myself” you say “not initially at least, over time limits in different areas might be needed, though that will truly be up to the ruler of the new nation. Also, the Tribal Lands are mountainous wilderness – any succubi living there will need to be prepared to work hard at building a new nation from scratch, it won’t be easy, it will be a lot of hard work.”

Vilyeten gives a dry laugh “It can’t be worse than here” she gestures around at the wasteland “I’ll need to talk to everyone of course, it might be weeks before we’ve even decided, never mind moved.”

“There will also be orcs and other inhabitants” you points out “That may object to your presence.”

Vilyeten simply shrugs, as if unbothered by this. You wonder if now is a good time to talk about angelic transformations for the Succubi.

“If it were up to you” she asks “who would rule, and what sort of government would this new realm have?”

Who?
>Whoever the Succubi choose
>Vilyeten
>Sireyi
>Other

Government
>Whatever the Succubi choose
>Absolute ruler
>Democracy
>Combination
>Other

Note that in this context I am using *absolute ruler* to mean the ruler picks the government and laws and *Democracy* to mean that people will be voting for representatives. I am using a very simple and broad interpretation rather than discussing the full complexities of government.

Angelic Transformation
>Discuss now
>Later

>>36483828
A retcon occurred, please see the end of this thread
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/36346914/

>>36483908
>Whoever the Succubi choose
>Absolute ruler
Doesn't work otherwise in the bginning, not with succubi used to essentially martial law
>Discuss now

>>36483908
>Sireyi, but Vilyeten will take the daily governance, since we will be away a lot anyway.
>Absolute ruler, at first
>Whatever the Succubi choose, once we actually have a nation
>Discuss now

>>36483908
>Sireyi
>Combination
We have absolute rule while generally democratically electing the civil servants and governors.

>Discuss now

>>36483908
>Whoever the Succubi choose
>Absolute ruler at first
>Discuss now

>>3648390
>Sireyi
>Combination
>Discuss now

>>36483908
As far as I understood it, there are different "tribes" of succubi right?
So I would take this
>>36483941
And add:
>A council made of succubi leading the individual tribes make the laws and appoint civil servants
Once we have those.

>>36483965
>>36483908

>>36483908
>Whoever the Succubi choose
>Whatever the Succubi choose

Of course, at large this would be a theocracy under Sireyi. Sireyi would just give the autonomy as long as they don't go on a crazy killing spree or decide that everyone needs to have sex at least 3 times a day.

>>36483908
>Sireyi, but Vilyeten will take the daily governance, since we will be away a lot anyway.
>Absolute ruler, at first
>Enlightened Absolutism, while all authority lies naturally within the sovereign, Sireyi, laws apply to all equally.
>Discuss now

>>36483908
>Sireyi
>Combination
>Discuss now

Seconding
>>36483974

>>36483908
>Nominally, Sireyi rules. Both to reassure the neighboring Kingdom, and to ensure the existing strife between the succubi will not tear the nation apart before its made.
>In effect, Vilyeten will rule, and will have pretty much autonomy within reason.
>There will be a council made from the leaders of the existing groups of succubi, that will advise Vilyeten and bring grievances to Sireyi
>Absolute ruler, at first. Once we have a nation, this can change, thats one of the reasons why we need a lean goverment at first
>Discuss now

“I would rule” you say “though since I might need to be away a lot for various reasons, I was thinking of a deputy ruler – such as yourself. Initially I would rule through the leaders of the individual succubi tribes whilst I built a real government over time.”

Vilyeten raises her eyebrow “It wouldn’t be me” she says “but I’m sure the clan leaders could decide on one.”

“Why not you?” you ask

“I’m needed here” she gestures around her “for every one of my people that you rescue, dozens more languish trapped in Hell, I’m not leaving until they are all free.”

“A noble goal” you say “When you tell the clan leaders please can you also tell them that I intend to offer the succubi the change to be transformed into angels” one of Vilyetens guards gives an audible gasp and several twitch in surprise. Vilyeten herself is unruffled, asking “and who will you offer this to, and is it a requirement of living anywhere?”

“Not Drache” says Ellahi “Or with me” says your sister.

Sofia says “It would make things easier.”

Who will you offer it to?
>Any who want it
>Only those who meet certain criteria (to be decided later)
>Other

Any restrictions/encouragement?
>None
>No more than (number? Percentage?)
>I’ll encourage them to take it, but won’t order
>Other

Deputy Ruler
>Don’t need one, I’ll have the council of clan leaders
>Clan leaders pick one
>I’ll pick one (who?)
>Other

Did we already inform Ophilia of her new position? I would like to see that.

>>36484185
>Any who want it
>I’ll encourage them to take it, but won’t order
>I’ll have the council of clan leaders
>They can elect a leader for quick decisions

>>36484185
>Only those who meet certain criteria (to be decided later)
>Only those willing to dedicate themselves to good and serve to mediate between the succubi and others.


>Clan leaders pick one, but thats final

>>36484185
>Any who want it
>None
>Don’t need one, I’ll have the council of clan leaders

>>36484185
>Any who want it
>I'll encourage them to take it, but won't order
>Don't need one, I'll have the council of clan leaders

>>36484185
>Any who want it
>Only those willing to dedicate themselves to good and serve to mediate between the succubi and others.
Mediators are good, and if they serve us directly, we can ensure their conduct to some extent

>Clan leaders pick one
Need someone for the quick decisions in the building years.

>>36484185
>Only those who meet certain criteria (to be decided later)
>None
>Clan leaders pick one

>>36484185
>Any who want it
>But have to serve among our angels, with all the duties this entails. Possibly fighting, possibly mediating. And, of course, they have to undergo the redeeming touch, which is not a pleasant experience
>Clan leaders pick one, can change on a regular basis. Maybe every 2 or three years.

>>36484185
>Only those who meet certain criteria (to be decided later)
>The same we put on our recruits in Drache
>None
>Clan leaders pick one, after a term of five years, they choose again.

>>36484185
>>36484299
>The same we put on our recruits in Drache
I forgot about those guys, that would be kinda unfair, adding this to
>>36484249

>>36484185
>Any who want it
>I’ll encourage them to take it, but won’t order
>Clan leaders pick one

>>36484185
>Only those who meet certain criteria (to be decided later)
>None
>Clan leaders pick one

>>36484185
>Only those who meet certain criteria (to be decided later)
You know, true desire for rightousness and all that. We won't expect the average succubutt to be capital letter Good. Those recruits would have to. And be held to higher standarts.
>None
>Clan leaders pick one

“I’ll let the clan leaders pick who they want to rule in my absence” you say to Vilyeten “I’ll offer the transformation to any who are willing to work for the good of others, I’m not exactly sure what that will entail, perhaps some time working as mediators between different groups, perhaps something else, as well as meeting certain standards. I’ll point out how useful they’ll be, and maybe encourage them a little, but I won’t order them.”

Vilyeten nods, taking all this in “I’ll speak to them” she says “and I’ll contact you as soon as things have been decided.”

With that, the meeting is concluded, as you and your allies watch the Succubi walk away, Sofia asks “So do you really think I should build more churches and barracks to Konig? I mean I’d have the most law-abiding realm in the Kingdom, but it could cause other problems.”

>Yes
>No
>We should talk to Konig before deciding

It will likely be weeks before you hear from the succubi, what are you going to be doing in the meantime?

>Searching for the Killing Frost
>Spending time with family
>Read Tome (which?)
>Getting knowledge from the Nodes
>Other (what?)

>>36484416
Forgot to add, extra option to respond to Sofia

>Sofia decides.

>>36484416
>Sofia decides.
>We should talk to Konig before deciding
>One church/barack complex, and wthere are certain standards those paladins need to fulfill

>Searching for the Killing Frost

>>36484416
>We should talk to Konig before deciding
>Read Tome (Mechanical Magic)


I propose we read this book for a number of reasons.

>Sireyi is an incredibly powerfully willed person, and because of our Deific Power we can magically boost our will to its fullest (a roll of 20), therefore completely minimizing any negative aspect that the books will bring. The evidence leaves me to believe that at most we are risking a increased interest in creating magitech. I say this because as we have seen with Isla, who per post >>35299755 rolled a 19 + 5 for her willpower as she read the Arcane Tome. That is a total of 24 for her will save. At a 24 willsave Isla had a small touch of megalomania which which quickly helped her through, and has an increased interest in using Arcane means to solve problems. We can easily infer that a similar effect is the worst that can be expected if we achieve a similar roll.

>Using Soul of Light, Sireyi’s modifier to her willsave is +18 (without SoL +12), using Deific Power for an automatic 20, that is a combined total of 38 (32 without SoL) for Sireyi’s save just as a general “willpower roll.” If this counts as a “spell related roll it is +23, or if it counts as rolling to “resist magic” it is a +36 to our roll for a total of 43 and 56 respectively. To put that in character, if it is a generic roll our willpower is 1.3 to 1.5 greater than Isla’s was when she read the book. As such it is incredibly clear that the worst effect we can expect occurring, in and out of character, would be Sireyi becoming more full herself and more reliant on using Magitech to solve her problems. As we can trust our loved ones to keep our head on straight, just as we do with Soul of Light I see no convincing argument to not read the book.

>>36484416
>Sofia decides.
If she decides yes, suggest
>One church/barack complex, and wthere are certain standards those paladins need to fulfill


>Searching for the Killing Frost

>>36484447
>The information in the Book of Mechanical Magic combined with what we know of the Huroni technology should give us the means to at the very least equip our soldiers with weapons technology that puts them on par with those in the army of The Lord of Life. In fact, it will likely give us the information on how to create incredibly advanced Golems which we can use to minimize lives lost in the coming war.

>>36484447
>I see no convincing argument to not read the book
The books influence is not solely a matter of willpower, we have no guarantee that on asuccessful roll it won't have any influence

>Sofia decides.
Her barony now.
>Spending time with family

>>36484416
>Sofia decides.
Encourage her to
>talk to Konig before deciding
Maybe he can appease her concerns.

>Getting knowledge from the Nodes

>>36484416
>Searching for the Killing Frost

>>36484416
>No
>Getting knowledge from the Nodes

>>36484416
>Sofia decides, it would be good to have more Paladins for when the Lord of Life comes.

>>36484447
>Read Tome (Mechanical Magic)

>>36484416
>Sofia decides.
>Getting knowledge from the Nodes
>Earth node, hopefully they knew something about using them for construction.

>>36484477
>The books influence is not solely a matter of willpower, we have no guarantee that on asuccessful roll it won't have any influence

Then how do you suggest it influences us? It is either a magical effect or an effect of simply having that knowledge.

We have seen how it affected Isla and I already made my argument regarding that.


> As such it is incredibly clear that the worst effect we can expect occurring, in and out of character, would be Sireyi becoming more full herself and more reliant on using Magitech to solve her problems. As we can trust our loved ones to keep our head on straight, just as we do with Soul of Light I see no convincing argument to not read the book.


We are at worst looking at some megalomania. That is more than worth the knowledge considering Sireyi's massive amount of self control and support network of people who love her enough to call her on her shit.

>>36484537
>or an effect of simply having that knowledge
This one it is. We know for a fact it is, because Pally told us so. Failing the willsave just makes it worse.

>>36484537
Or we could start with the nodes instead of the tome.

Or you could stop bringing up the retarded plan nobody likes and making a complete ass out of yourself.

>>36484416
>Sofia decides.
>leaning No, and Hell No!

>Getting knowledge from the Nodes

>>36484416
>Yes
>Getting knowledge from the Nodes

>>36484416
>Sofia decides

>Searching for the Killing Frost

>>36484553
To be fair to Mathrian, while I don't like his plan, it is now the appropriate moment to bring it up.

>>36484537
I'm not worried about the loss of control stuff, that will be fairly minor in any case.
I just don't want Sireyi to be the one to read that tome, I find it better someone else does.

>>36484546
Pally is this accurate? If so, would you mind expanding some? If its not a magical effect what kind is it? Is there a reason we don't get a save against that specifically?

>>36484641
We had a lengthy discussion on the subject when the other tome reading came up in thread 46.
While it was about the necromancy tome, the way they work is the same, just the specific problem will be different.

>>36484660
You realize that his answer wouldn't change anything, since Sireyi wouldn't know in-character, right?

Getting tired of the constant begging for meta-knowledge and then trying to use that to back up your arguments.

>>36484660
>Is there a reason we don't get a save against that specifically?
We get a save.
But besides that it causes issues due to the knowledge dumped into your head:see

>Mostly as >>36203843 said it's the effect of lots of knowledge being dumped into your head.

It can amplify existing personality quirks (Isla was knowledge hungry before she read the Tome, it's a lot stronger now) and tends to make the reader use the knowledge of the Tome as a solution to all problems (Isla much prefers magical solutions to non-magical ones now).

>>36484660
>Pally is this accurate?

Broadly, yes.

>If so, would you mind expanding some?

There will be *some* effect on you, a save makes it minor, a failure makes it worse.

>If its not a magical effect what kind is it?

It is magic, but if you resist the magic, you don't get the knowledge.

>Is there a reason we don't get a save against that specifically?

You are cramming a lot of technical and magical knowledge in your head, knowledge that wants to be used. It wants to be used.

If you find away to resist the mental effect completely, you will not gain all of the knowledge.

>>36484679
>Getting tired of the constant begging for meta-knowledge and then trying to use that to back up your arguments.
Well someone has to or we just continue bickering about shit that has an answer that we can only know by QM fiat. And since people seem to want to reject drawing conclusions, other than their own, I figure the best thing is to just get the answer and at least then we can bitch at eachother about our interpretation of the facts.


>>36484712
Ah I see. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks again.

>>36484712
Well that's fine we want the knowledge because we want to use it..

>>36484738
>Well someone has to or we just continue bickering about shit that has an answer that we can only know by QM fiat.
Yes, god forbid we use our actual in-character knowledge instead of allowing votes to be altered by things the main character couldn't possibly know.

>And since people seem to want to reject drawing conclusions, other than their own
What a surprise, people go with their own conclusions when you don't present any good argument.

>I figure the best thing is to just get the answer and at least then we can bitch at eachother about our interpretation of the facts.
The answer that we shouldn't be allowed to know, since it changes how people will vote from an in-character way to a way that abuses meta-knowledge.

“Well” you say “It’s up to you now, it’s not really my place to say, but if you do, perhaps limiting it to only a single extra church would be good” you and your allies planeshift from hell and teleport back to Sofias keep.

“So it’s completely up to me” says Sofia, as the two of you approach your keep, trailing behind the others, who are ahead of you, chatting “but you are going to tell me what to do anyway?” she grins at you.

“Hah yeah ok” you say “sorry, force of habit. Talking to Konig before you decide is probably a good idea, but” you hold up one finger “that *is* up to you.”

“I think I should talk to him” she says “will you come with me?”

“Of course I will” you say. Later the two of you retreat to a private room and try to pray for Konigs attention. It doesn’t take long before you are whisked away to the Hall of Konig, this time it’s a more private audience – only Konig and two of his angels are present, and they are stood around the large fireplace, chatting.

“Child” says Konig, greeting Sofia “Sireyi” he nods to you “have you decided?”

“First” says Sofia “I want to ask: what are you going to say about the succubi – are your followers still going to kill them on-sight?”

Konig sighs “perhaps an alteration to the Knightly code of conduct is in order” he sounds pained “We were discussing that, I’m thinking of making an allowance for any demon seeking redemption, with the assumption that any succubi following you” he nods at you “is assumed to be actively seeking it – of course they will still be expected to obey the law.”

Sofia opens her mouth to say something, closes it, and then says “Ok, that actually sounds reasonable.”

“Are you thinking of going for it?” you ask her, surprised.

“I am I think” she says, and then turns to you, hugs you and kisses you on the cheek “Unless you want to talk me out of it?”

“Ah” you say as Sofia presses her body up against yours, she’s acting very unlike herself “what did you have in mind?” You can feel a blush coming on.

“Well” she says quietly, in Konigs Heaven where he can hear every word “I figure you owe me for dumping me with sole responsibility for the Barony, so how about I say we let that one slide and” she says “you can choose what happens regarding the churches, if you agree to give me that other child we discussed.”

>[Gets flustered]
>No
>Sure, wait, you just want me to agree to annoy Konig right? Right?
>Other

>>36484822
>[Gets flustered]

>>36484776
I would assume Sireyi does actually know the effects after Isla read the book and most likely spend some time examining its influence on the mind. It seems like a reasonable assumption to me.

>>36484822
>[Gets flustered]
Always the correct repsonse
>Sofia, If you want that other child, I will give it to you, you should make that decision regarding your new barony

She is not going to get herself out of this one.

>>36484822
>[Gets flustered] (yes)
the only correct option

>>36484822
>[Gets flustered]

Supporting >>36484849
>Sofia, If you want that other child, I will give it to you, you should make that decision regarding your new barony

>>36484822
>[Gets flustered]
>Us having anaother child isnt related to your decision, I would be happy to no matter what you decide.

>>36484849
We would know some of the effects, but probably not as much as OP just revealed.

What we do know should be revealed to us in-character anyway, as part of a story post, not a meta-knowledge dump like that.

>>36484872
The meta-knowledge dump is always Pallys secret love.
But you are right, we should be related those things in-character at the given opportunities, then again, its hard to convey "all" information our character has just in story form, so I find it reasonable to have the occasional met-info dump, if the character knows the info, or if the discussion is purely meta to begin with.

>>36484822
>>36484849
supporting

>>36484872
The only part that was "too much" was about the effect of failing or succeeding at save rolls, which was stuff we already knew from another discussion, which was completly meta anyway.

>>36484822
>[Gets flustered]
>Sofia, If you want that other child, I will give it to you, you should make that decision regarding your new barony

>>36484809
how long has it been since we said we'd help bokin?

>>36484973
Not long enough.

File: Forty Keks.jpg (34 KB, 292x257)

34 KB JPG

>>36484978
Poor pathetic Bokin

>>36484973
I still think if he needs us to hold his hand at his test of adulthood it would be against the point of the whole exercise. So I figure at some point he is gonna actually grow up and do it on his own like he is supposed to.

>>36484904
If it's knowledge the character has, then it would just be a regular info-dump, not a meta-info-dump.

>>36484950
Eh, I guess, I'd just have preferred everything being revealed in-character, and there have been some times when OP has revealed things that we really wouldn't have any way of knowing in-character.

Angel's voice not being a bad idea with the succubi when we were in Hell that first time, for example.

Also, fuck, the succubi probably got attacked by demons that were drawn by our usage of Angel's Voice after we left.

>>36485014
>Angel's voice not being a bad idea with the succubi when we were in Hell that first time, for example.
Yeah okay, I disliked that too. Pally does sometimes reveal too much, although I understand why he does it, it does kind of kill some moments for me.

As for the attack, we made it very clear we will express our displeasure on anyone messing with the succubi, so I figure they are reasonably save.

Writing flustered plus sensible response.

I'm sorry if info-dumping is spoiling immersion, I can restrict myself to in-character info only if players would prefer.

>>36485055
I personally would, although I understand why you started with the meta-info dumps, and I can hardly blame you for it.
People can get very unreasonable and entitled.

>>36485049
I personally saw that as a reasonable thing to think in character. Thats just me I guess

>>36485055
I personally think you're fine. From what I've seen you haven't given us a whole lot of information that is actually "immersion breaking"

>>36485094
Did you read that he wrote "for the first time"?
Because I would have thought back then Salvastis has a extra wide net to search for use of angelic abilities if pally wouldn't have saiud otherwise.
And Sireyi couldn't have known he didn't.

>>36485011
that's a pretty shitty thing to do.

>>36485123
Its not my fault other anons made promises I don't like.
Factually Sireyi got way more important stuff to do right now.

>>36485123
Honestly, when that promise was made, we were not nearly as busy as we are now, so its reasonable that we simply don't have the time now, even if we once intended to do it, and Bokin will have to realise that.

>>36485112
I didn't. It was specifically gone over that the wasteland was the protection and taking into account that he has been on the defensive it would make sense that he wouldn't have the time or energy. Additionally, we were hundreds and hundreds of miles away, it would make sense that something small like that would slip through.

>>36485164
It was something that could be assumed, but Sireyi couldn't have known he hasn't. Which was the point.
One could strongly suspect in one or the other direction, but Sireyi had no way of knowing.

>>36485139
>>36485156
fair enough, But if we're never gonna do or it it's taking least priority then we should at least let him know

>>36485184
I like to think Bokin has already done it and got himself a nice giantess and got his first kid on the way.
I don't want reality to shatter that fantasy.

>>36485181
Meh. Not particularly bothered by it.

>>36485055
They don't particularly bother me.

>>36485055
It kinda is, for me, but you should restrict it to in-character even if it wasn't spoiling immersion.

“Sofia!” you gasp “that’s not what, I mean, we haven’t, this isn’t, what’re you!” you take a breath to compose yourself as Sofia grins up at you, her body shaking against yours with amusement, your blush is out in full force. You try to ignore where you are and say to her “Sofia, if you want another child, I won’t deny you, but you should make a decision regarding your barony.”

“Spoilsport” she whispers and then disengages from the hug and turns to face Konig, who has an expressionless face, you wonder how angry he is with you right now.

“Ancestor” she says, bowing formally “Thank you for your time, I will not be building any more churches to you in my barony, further, should any of my children come to harm at the hands of your followers, your church will be formally expelled from my Barony” she pauses, adding “Philly can stay, I like her. From this day onwards, the only God I follow, is the one I’m due to marry.”

Konig just raises an eyebrow at you, showing no other expression. That can’t be good.

“Ah” you say “Maybe, ah, maybe we should g-”

“-o” you finish, the two of you finding yourself back in the room in Sofias keep. Beside you Sofia is laughing, tears streaming down her face “oh that was fun!” she says “Jal was right, I should cut loose more often!”

>About this child...
>Approve of Sofias actions
>Disapprove of Sofias actions
>Ask her why
>I need to study the elemental nodes (leave)
>Other

>>36485250
>About this child...

>>36485250
>Disapprove of Sofias actions
>He was being very curteous Sofia, that was not necessary. True if he would have harmed our children, I would have driven him from the land personally, but we both know he wants the best for Mili, even if he has a different idea of what the best is.

>>36485250
>Ask her why
>About this child...

Seconding >>36485291

>>36485250

>He was being very courteous Sofia, that was not necessary. True if he would have harmed our children, I would have driven him from the land personally, but we both know he wants the best for Mili, even if he has a different idea of what the best is.
>That being said I probably would have done the same if I where you.
>Ask her why
>About this child...

>>36485250
>Ask her why
>About this child...

>>36485250
>>36485319
Seconded

>>36485250
>He was being very curteous Sofia, that was not necessary. True if he would have harmed our children, I would have driven him from the land personally, but we both know he wants the best for Mili, even if he has a different idea of what the best is.
>We have a agreement with him, and regardless of how well behaved the paladins are, military drill will not always be fun for Mili, she will complain about it, I know very well what problems one can face from Konigs Paladins, but we, and especially you need to be careful to not let our personal grievances cloud our judgement. Please, trust Philly to judge if Mili is being treated fairly.
But no onto happier matters

>About this child...

>>36485250
>Do you intend to run all political negotiations like that?

>>36485250
I like >>36485394 In addision to my previous vote which is >>36485319

>>36485250

I'll second this option:
>>36485394

Sometimes you gotta deal with people who you don't like to make things work. Perhaps she has some other strategy in mind with Konig, but biting the hand that just legitimized your rule while you were in a tight spot seems a bit asinine.

>>36485250
>Sofia, you crazy!
>>36485291
Supporting this reasoning. Konig was acting extremely reasonable, even adapting his own god damn Code to better accommodate us. That's a gigantic concession on his part, and only one of several.

>>36485422
>Perhaps she has some other strategy in mind with Konig
I honestly fear she might just have done it to cut loose. I like Jal, but I don't think she is always a good influence on Sofia.

>>36485470

Then I fear that we may be marrying a fool. She must do something to make this right or her personal feelings may have compromised everything that we've worked so hard for.

>>36485250
>>36485394
To make sure it comes across, I'm not "disapproving", because Sofia is a grown women and can make her own decisions, but he clearly tried to reach out to her here, and while the dreams thing was fucked up and deserved stern words, she shouldn't have slapped his given hand away like that.

>>36485501
That parting line to Konig probably could've been better, but I don't think Konig is going to go back on a deal or get upset over this.

>>36485501
>Then I fear that we may be marrying a fool.
Not a fool per se. But you have to remember what the majority of Sofias life was like.
The way Konig treated her in their first meeting, and how he tries to pressure her into making a "proper" marriage is way too much like what the noblity in Hanse tried to force on her.

Sofia is very emotional and she learned breaking out of her shell from Jal of all people.

I'm sure if we reason with her she will come around.

“Ah Sofia” you say “That was...that was rude.”

Sofia dismisses you with a wave of her hand “He needed to know he can’t push me around.”

“He was being very courteous Sofia,” you say “that was not necessary. True if he would have harmed our children, I would have driven him from the land myself, but we both know he wants the best for Mili, even if he has a different idea of what the best is.”

“He’s a bully” says Sofia, scoffing at your concerns.

“We have a agreement with him” you point out, “and regardless of how well behaved the paladins are, military drill will not always be fun for Mili, she will complain about it, I know very well what problems one can face from Konigs Paladins, but we, and especially you need to be careful to not let our personal grievances cloud our judgement. Please, trust Philly to judge if Mili is being treated fairly.”

Sofia get a very familiar, stubborn look on her face and then relaxes and sighs “Alright love” she says, kissing your cheek “for you.”

“Ah” you say, as Sofia hugs you and rests her head on your shoulder “You mentioned a child....”

“Oh yes” she says “I was talking about it with Isla and Jal one day – they both think the marriage should come first, I think there will always be some sort of crisis and our marriage could get delayed again, so I’ve been meaning to ask, any reason why Mili can’t start looking forward to a little sister or brother soon?”

Continue talking about Konig?
>Drop it
>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig
>Other

Child?
>Whenever you want Sofia
>After we get married
>Other

>>36485614
>Drop it
>Whenever you want Sofia

>>36485614
>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig
>Whenever you want Sofia

>>36485614

>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig
>No grand gestures, just, please at least make an effort to be polite, as long as he stops with the dreams

>Whenever you want Sofia
>Although I was thinking of the wedding night...

>>36485614
>Drop it
>After we get married

>>36485614
>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig
>After we get married (which should be soon I hope.)

>>36485614
>After we get married
We will hold out until marriage!
Kids in the wedding night, we've come to far to falter now!
>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig
Pls, just a bit. Not a lot, just be polite.

>>36485614
>Drop it
>When we get married
>Which is as soon as possible
>Also, it can be Jals child too, you know

>>36485614
>Drop it
>After we get married
>If some crisis does push the wedding back, then I'll still give you a child, okay?

>>36485614
Oh also before we go to study the elemental node, can we write a letter to bokin letting him know we can't help him or maybe have it retcon'd that we already did that when we saw how busy we would be.

>>36485614
No opinion on Konig, I thzink we got our point across
>After we get married
>If some crisis happens and delays the marriage, I will get Poppy to wed us in our bedroom and you will get you child right there.

>>36485614
>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig

I think she needs to patch things up. That outburst could be interpreted as Sofia establishing that she's going to play hardball on the negotiations, but she must make it clear that bargaining and negotiating is still very much on the table.

Plus, he's like her great-great-great-great-greatest grandfather or something. Even if he's out of touch and maybe racist and crotchety, you still need to be polite at the very least.

>Whenever you want Sofia

>>36485614
>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig
>Whenever you want Sofia

>>36485614
Seconding
>>36485643
>>36485734

>>36485614
>Sofia you need to fix things with Konig
>No grand gestures, just, please at least make an effort to be polite, as long as he stops with the dreams
>After we get married
>If some crisis happens and delays the marriage, I will get Poppy to wed us in our bedroom and you will get you child right there.