>>36234579
Maleficent is like, mid-tier at best in the Villains Victorious 'verse. We've got Firebird, Aurora, Lich-pope, CHERNABOG, Facilier and his Friends with ~5 million souls at his disposal, Ursula, Genie-Jafar, and Elsa.


Also, can I get official numbers on the Lackeys? I need them for the playtest tomorrow at 4:30 EST.

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THIRTY THREADS IN ONE MOTHERFUCKING WEEK

As much as there have been bumps and lack of enough sleep, I just want to say that it was a pleasure, all of you. I'll definitely show up tomorrow to either play or watch the second playtest.

But for now, fuck that noise, I'll go to bed.

And remember, Grimhilde hottest waifu.

>>36234654
Technically, 10 days. More like a week and a half. Still impressive, the system's about to enter beta and character creation is done.

>>36234639
Stop right there. What are lackeys, in the end? big mooks or leaders?

>>36234567
Alright, lets get this shit done, for th fifth fucking time

http://strawpoll.me/3013658/r

>>36234639

Does Frollo even count as having that much power? I'd say he an his inquisiton have an advantage against Maleficent because his Holy Fire shits on any fairy or fey, but he himself isn't that powerful is he?

And come on, Maleficent could totally take on Elsa, if only by virtue of having more experience with her powers, and being able to turn into a fire-spewing dragon

>>36234567

ok so current consensus is that magic should stick to items or sources like the other side for powers
and that it should be limited
(though unsure about whether to start or to gain, i have a cunning plan for it)
This method seems to be working so il stick with it
(apologies if its turning into 20Q)

1) should magic make a situation more effective always or only when the player succeeded in that task anyway
2) Should magic give bonuses to rolls in action related tasks (combat/social) or extra rerolls?
3)should magic items have huge or small consequences when you fuck up using it
4)should powers be used all the time, in specific curcamstances, or when youre on your last strikes?

How about we make a list of player character sheets already created as example characters for the PDF?

>>36234631

I just need to know if we need one last poll.

Do we?

One for magic, maybe one for what the Lackeys are actually supposed to be?

>>36234674
Oh yeah, I forgot this board uses the bloody stupid American way of date ordering. Apologies for misleading in the thread title.

>>36234686
that would be awesome, but only do human characters til we get beast and other species rule sorted

>>36234677
WHO FUCKING KNOWS.
Each time we talk about ANYTHING it ends up going up in power.

>>36234683
He's a lich and Chernabog gives him divine might. Also, Hades is a thing (something above Maleficent, i mean) and Elsa is in her element if Maleficent goes after here.

>>36234686

How many did we have?

Off the top of my head...

Simmertap
BOOK TIGER
Jeremiah
Sverd
Mechanic atlantean girl
COWBOYNOSSAURUS REX
Bruce
That crocodile
A fuckload of knights

And some of those need an update. PLenty more, too

>>36234731
We had at least three dinosaurs.

>>36234625
That may be true, but remember: The Horned King is only 2 adaptations away from the Welsh Grim Reaper.

>>36234639
Nonsense! Lich-pope can't do shit but send of fanatical minions against you.

>>36234678
oh,geez, let's make a third options, "maybe", so we can take away votes from the magic side and leave the inquisitors safe
>>36234704
we have two options
http://pastebin.com/THMh0PhF
http://pastebin.com/Au44uiQH
make a poll tfor these.

>>36234751
I was supposed to be working on a Stegosaurus type and a Triceratops type, but apparently me contributing is now a Bad Thing(tm). I'll see if I can dig them up.

>>36234731
Don'r forget Dance With Antilopes, the hedonistic greek boxer and the aztec eagle paladin.

>>36234731
How about I put together a Google Doc that everyone can just past their sheets to? I hope everybody saved their characters so we don't need to go through the archive.
You also forgot my archer, but there were so many cool characters I don't blame you.

>>36234685
after this one i should have an easy way to implement magic that will keep both magi lovers and inquisitors happy hopefully (unless we all sperg out again)

>>36234780

You just get a bit too passionate sometimes but don't mind the trolls bitching about it, man. More people appreciate what you did for this project than people bitch about it

>>36234762

Oh boy.

So, here we poll (eh):

http://strawpoll.me/3013685

>>36234762
Because some people arnt sure or don't care faggot

>>36234789
Bruce and Dances With Antelopes are actually the same guy.....funny that you forgot that, really, since one of his traits is basically "you have a white man identity and a red man identity".

Anyhoo, there's also King Arthursaurus Rex, his velociraptor buddy Harold the Herald, Sir Bruins Ourson the Mighty of Champagne and The Right Honorable Judge Dread.

>>36234890
Let's avoid using Judge Dredd for now, don't want to step on more toes than we're already doing.

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Name: Catherine Saint-Claire
Role: Smart Guy
Country of Origin: Imperial Republic of Atlantis
Size: Medium
Species: Human

---Attributes---
Robustness: 7/12
Agility: 7/12
Intelligence:9/12
Sensibility: 7/12
Charisma: 7/12
Will: 9/12

---Skills---
Acrobatics:
Athletics:
Melee:
Ranged:
Brawl:
Prevent Harm:2
Endure:
Stealth:
Legerdemain:1
Deceive:
Persuasion:
Intimidate:
Academics:2
Science : 2
Occult: 1
Mechanics: 1
Linguistics:
Travel:
Driving:
Insight:
Music:
Craft: 2

---Traits---
-Heart of Prometheus: There is no power on Earth, Heaven, or Hell that Atlantean ingenuity cannot harness. Bonus to anything involving Occult and Mechanics/Science simultaneously.
-Bamboo Technology: +4 to Crafting rolls when you have no tools or materials appropriate for what you're trying to do.
-Trust me, I'm a Doctor: +2 on Science, Occult, and Academics if you can somehow explain how your character knows this particular subject.

---Powers---
No More Chinese Laundry: Spend a Will point to assemble an explosive from everyday materials. Must have something on hand that could conceivably explode -- can't just magic bombs out of thin air. Coconuts okay. At the end of the round you have at least one pound of highly unstable explosive material that will miraculously not go off in your hands. We'll leave it to you as to what to do with it.
I Read About That!: Spend a Will point. Gain +3 to the next Academics, Occult, or Science roll you make. Roll twice and take the better result.

---Ideals---
Minimum Civilian Casualties
Eco-friendly Explosions
Spread “modern” medical practices to other kingdoms.

---Goals---
Solomon I’m baaaaaaaack!: Blow up a king’s Fortress/Castle and or Mountain. King’s survival: Optional
Eastern Wonderland: Have a tea party with an enemy after a fierce encounter.
Love’s deterrent power: Achieve world peace with the help of medicine and explosives.

--Equipment--
Medical Kit
Explosive Kit

>>36234890
I had Antrodemus Red-Throat and the Aborigine guy who I was planning to turn into Digger Harkness meets Roland Tembo

again please may everyone answer these questions with why as well

the polls are slowly creeping towards no, but the suggestion i make based on everyones feedback will hopefully be a middleman

>>36234762
>>36234762
>>36234762

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>>36234909
Yeah.....but let us not also forget CRAZY HASSAN!

>>36234929
--BACKGROUND--
She came from a long line of wealthy doctors from the Imperial Republic, after a disastrous medical mission that left her an orphan she swore revenge and to continue her parent’s work of helping the sick.
After visiting a certain flower shop for a patient. She became enamored with the art of explosions. When Catherine was young she found solace In old stories of wizards and sorceresses making miracles and helping people, this gave her an Idea (after inhaling certain chemicals and reagents) after donning her wizard cap and robes she went out of the republic as a wandering healer…and demolitions expert.

>>36234683
>>36234726

Don't make it a powerlevel thread.
Generally speaking though we can assume that powerlevel is
Walt>Gods>Sorcerer Kings>Regular/Beast Kings>Everybody else

>>36234937
It's only creeping towards No because SOMEONE put "maybe" as an option.
It'd be even otherwise.

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>>36234929
>Will 9/12
WILL DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT

>>36234960

Actually, we should totally make it a power level thread.

Then I can finally go to sleep.

>>36234992
We need updated character sheets ASAP.

fml and my terrible ability to read through threads

heres the final questions folks!
>>36234685
>>36234685
>>36234685

>>36234992
oops my bad didn't notice it. thank you for pointing it out mang

wow, Nob, look, it's almost as if a lot of people wanted magic and stronger lackeys. How about that.

>>36235058
Your skills are also being made with outdated rules, I recommend you consult the 1d4chan page.

>>36235075

Shut up and go away already

>>36234929
Also, the first point (and only the first) you put in a skill brings it to +3 instead of just +1.

>>36235091
Mmm, delicious.

>>36235075
>that one anon who will never let up from being ever so lightly slighted by a namefag once
Asphyxiate thyself.

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>>36235075

There are actually a lot of guys in favor of magic.

Uh.

I don't like that.

>>36235075
Its still majority no

Do traps count as Craft?

I had the Smart Guy hunter with lots of ranks on it, and I was gonna tweak his character and skills a bit to say he prefers traps and crossbows instead of more hunt-y things. What works works, nowhatamisayin?

>>36235134

Fuck, it'd better be!

>>36234802
This is a good basic idea, but we don't need EVERY character there. Just a couple of basic characters that fill the roll nicely enough to show people what their characters could potentially look like, sorted into a few archetypes. I also updated my own character 'sheet' thing to include a Physical Description tab.
It's here if needed. http://pastebin.com/5czqCJHr

>>36235149
It still is

The fact that No is gaining a vote every time Yes does, to the point that there are more votes than there are posters in this thread (22 votes in the poll, but only 15 posters in the thread) is suspicious as fuck. Cheating at an online poll is seriously low class.

>>36234929
I like it. Character sheet is way out of date, but the concept is good. Explosion Wizzzzard is go!


>>36235075
Okay?
Like, you seem to think I'm a lot more attached to my ideas than I actually am. I just don't care. If I'm outvoted, fine, I guess I was wrong, on to the next topic. You seem really salty about something.

>>36235148
Yes, you could do that. Personally, I'd allow Travel as well depending on the character background and what kinds of traps you're doing.

File: abandonthread.gif (2.02 MB, 324x232)

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>>36235128
So long as it's only a guys who are reasonable about it, I don't think we have anything to worry about. On the other hand, if we're undergoing a full blown caster edition invasion.....

>>36235148

Yeah, absolutely: you make everything with Craft.

Ah, but wait, what about Art?

Do we need a Skill for making Art, like paintings and sculptures and flower arrangements, or is that Craft?

>>36235167
theres also lurkers, but yes that would be rather tasteless

>>36235179
That was only ever a strawman the inquisition made up.

>>36235088
>>36234992
Remaking the character. Sorry about bringing up magic man it made all the faggots crawl out of their buttholes.

Someone is rigging the strawpoll.
There were four people tops in support of magic, and there's exactly one person gaining 'no' for every 'yes' vote. Note there's 10 yes votes, 11 no votes, and 16 people in the thread.

Invalidated.

>>36235179
They'll come. It's just a matter of time. It's always a matter of time.
>>36235189
You know, there were those 'why are there no wizards' guys back in threads ~13, 14, 20, and the last thread. They exist, and the ones a week ago were full-on 3.5e-ing it.

>>36235184
Depending on the art it could be Occult or Craft.

>>36235184
Craft, but you make it with Charisma.

>>36235193
There's no way to actually measure how many people are in favor of magic because we're all anonymous. The number is probably more than 4, considering that there were over 40 people in the last thread.

That being said, I agree that it's being rigged.

>>36235167
I kinda doubt it, its been pretty honest so far

>>36235193
>>36235167

That would actually make a lot of sense, but it could also the lurkers and I don't want to start a witch hunt.

>>36235179
>>36235128
read this and answer it would be a great help against the concept of "caster edition"

>tfw everyone can make fun characters but me

I must be cursed, this shit is unreal

Hopefully they'll git good during the games

>>36235179
As much as I see where they're going, I still want more tests of the game before implementing more stuff

>>36235189
Please stop making this a more dramatic deal than it is
>>36235193
There's probably still posters/lurkers from the previous thread dood, there were 30 or so

Just going ahead and making a doc in case anybody wants to store their characters there.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m8XSm73Ea4ECdDdP9V4IVJCEBji6HPw43LRPyUCDmx4/edit?usp=sharing

Editable so you can copy, paste and fix your character sheets.

>>36235193
There were 44 people in the last thread. Maybe they haven't felt they have anything to add yet.

>>36235256
Stat monitor lizards, anon.

>>36235236
It's too perfect. The "no" gains precisely one vote almost 30 seconds after each and every "yes". Consistently. They aren't even trying to hide it.

>>36235237
It could just be that people are linking to people outside the thread. Like, if I wanted I could pop open skype and ask my friends to vote on it.

Also; Isn't it a bit strange how the last 3 polls on magic were almost resoundingly 'fuck no' but we're nearly evenly split now? Have we attracted a lot of new people? That's the hope, anyway.

>>36235237

On the other hand, no other poll ever got this many votes, now that I think about it.

Mhhh. . .

>>36235269
That is pretty damming, but still. More people trickle in, and post

>>36235266


What is a monitor lizard?

>>36235289

If so, they are voting only on the magic question and on nothing else.

And of course that's our hot topic, so it also makes sense. . .

>>36235290
There are a lot of reasons this poll could be thrown out.
It looks like there are people cheating it due to consistently gaining votes on one side right after the other side would have caught up.
it has a pussyfoot option which is throwing off the numbers (It could be a perfect tie right now without "maybe").
It has way more voters than any other poll, which also smells of foul play.

>>36235315
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_lizard

Really cool is what they are.

>>36235319
it's only a hot topic because they keep fucking bringing it up. it got rejected the last four times, so why are we doing this again?

>big debate on having magic on not
>people want magic
>poll shows thye want magic
>OH NOES, THE POLL HAS BEEN RIGGED
wow, who would have ssen this coming!

>>36235289
If so, thats both good an bad

>>36235336
Rejected by a namefag and a small handful of anons.
Despite being a major part of the setting.
Despite being a major part of almost all of the settings that the setting rips off.

>>36235348
Ok then, in-thread.

Respond here if you WANT magic in the system.

If less than 10 responses in 5 minutes, it's rigged.

>>36235348

The only reason I'm not outright calling you a cheater is because I don't think you are smart enough to cheat.

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Ok
this goes to every anon, namefag, inquisitor, magi-lover and lurker in the thread

please answer these final questions, with a why as well

1) should magic be spammable or not
2)should magic improve successful rolls or help rolls in general
3) should magic have consequences if you fuck it up ,and if so, how large?
4) should magical powers be used only on x strike, used in certain situations or used whenever but only x amount of times?

my apologies for the spam, have a clayton+gaston

>>36235348
It actually looks like it's being rigged in favor of No. It was bunk to begin with anyway. Putting "maybe" in there just fucked the whole thing up from the start.

>>36235357
you mean the 10 people who voted against it last time, and the two people who voted for it?
r how about the eight and one split the time before that?

>>36235389
bullshit. there were more votes for 'yes' than there were actually people in the thread for a bit.

>>36235357
Except its beem rejected MULTIPLE times. A single namefag can't do that much

>>36235386
We really need to get the rest of the Elite Hunters in there.

>>36235376

It's still just as easy to trick, and now we are cutting off the lurkers.

Which is bad.

>>36235348
Not the people who resoundingly voted 'No magic' in the last few threads and polls, that's for sure.

>>36235357
>small handful of anons
Were you even in the last threads when we discussed this?

>>36235376
Yes, but only if it's heavily limited. if it looks like it's getting too biased in favour of one class or a particular build, it should be binned with all the speed of the coursing river, all the force of the great typhoon and all the strength of the raging fire before being booted to the dark side of the moon.

>>36235332

Oh shit, komodo dragons! Right, right!

Clearly, I must make it charismatic. A singing venomous giant lizard solves everything

>>36235411

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

What if our discussion has attracted people from outside the Threads, who are now only voting on the poll to keep the discussion going?

Are we being trolled?

>>36235376
>>36235386
I'm in favor of magic, but not the bright flashy kind.
1 - Not spammable.
2 - No assist rolls.
3 - If you fuck up, the spell fizzles. You didn't have the concentration/power to pull it off.
4 - Some kind of focus or exhaustion system to keep it from being used constantly.

>>36235386
Christ, i wake up and get on and all these idiots get on. What do you guys even want to accomplish?

>>36235386
1)
Have you ever seen any magic user "spam" magic in a Disney setting? No.
2)
It should generally open up new options, not boost old options. Not a whole lot of Disney magic actually made someone "better" at something
3)
Ehhh... Sometimes. Depends on the individual effect. Some magic seems to go wrong if you abuse it, while other times it's foolproof.
4)
Depends on the individual effect. All three could have a place

>>36235386
1: Definitely not.
2: No. That's eating into Sensible and Charming guy's roles.
3: Yes, but depending on the kind of magic.
4: They should require Will Points if anything, honestly. We already have a mechanic for 'limited number of uses per day'.

I never contributed too much to these threads, but I'd like to play a wizard in it when the system is done.

>>36235440
Considering we got "Greatswords are for weebs and aren't real" a few threads ago, maybe? Who knows

>>36235403
Multiple times by people bawwing as loudly as possible and then sticking their fingers in their ears, metaphorically speaking.

>>36235488
>Multiple times by people bawwing as loudly as possible and then sticking their fingers in their ears, metaphorically speaking.
No different from the people who wouldn't shut up about how much they wanted it.

>>36235386

A) fuck no
B) Nah. We have music for that.
C) yeah, sounds reasonable. Large enough to matter, but not enough to fuck up the character on the spot
D) I kinda like that, but depending on what magic it is...so I'll say yeah, but vote against implementing it anyway

>>36235386

No.
No, if it's magic it should just do its own thing.
Yes, that's funny.
It really depends on what kind of magic powers we are talking about here.

>>36235486

Yeah, I read that one. It was pretty idiotic.

>>36235386
1)No, it should be something casted for the general benefit for the party and not for lightning bolting the fuckers.
2)Magic should improve some rolls but unless there is a magical artifact on person it should only improve a small amount of actions.
3)Failing rolls simply either has it not work or some spell mis-effects depending on what the GM wants, a disney standard is the polymorphing spell fucking up and turning a person into a less useful but still saves the day animal. Also, social consequences. Most of the world is ruled or oppressed by evil magic using assholes, people should be distrustful of any magic that isn't lighting a small torch
4)In certain situations

>>36235386
Lurker
1. At least for traditional DnD level magic (if we ever get there) like fireballs and missiles, no. Then again I'm more in favor of ultility magic with short cooldowns than combat magic with large cooldowns
2. Don't think it should get a buff role since we already have archetypes for that
3. Depends on the magnitude of the spell in question
4. Spells per day or a reagent limit is fine

>>36235506
agreed. just because you dragged your friends in here doesn't mean you just get to invalidate the last 4 polls.

>>36235567
But would you be singing the same tune if the poll was blatantly rigged towards "no"?
For some reason, I doubt it.

>>36235591
that would fit perfectly in character with the last four polls, so no, i wouldn't.

what are you even trying to prove here? that suddenly, everyone has changed their mind in this thread? because we know that doesn't just happen. moreover, there are more voters on one side of that poll than there were in the two polls before that put together.

>>36235480

Nob, can we use my pastebin for Mooks and Lackeys?

I honestly like my descriptions for them and the rules in it are the most up to date.

>>36235591
Why would we doubt non-anomalous results?

>>36235627
>>36235625
The number of "no"s exceeds the entire number of voters in the previous polls.
It's rigged. Possibly on both sides. Invalid.

>>36235626
Sure, just rip out the Inner Circle stats and Villain stats, dump them in there, and update the Lackey stats and it should work fine. You can refluff them if you want, but I still think we should have two tiers in between lackey and a King.

>>36235625

Well, maybe we DID get some new lurkers who really (like, REALLY) want to play a wizard.

>>36235662
Christ, haven't they taken enough from us already? They already have all these fucking games you can play a wizard and have your magical masturbatory fantasy in, why do they have to come into this game too?

>>36235662
Or who just want magic in.

There's that old strawman about all potential PC magic being CoDzilla D&D magic again.

>>36235678
Oh, oh!
There's another one! I didn't think this tour of the wheat fields would have so many interesting strawmen to look at!

>>36235678

But I want to be a game-breaking wizard in THIS game. Fuck the fact that it's totally breaking the Disney Spirit, I want it!

>>36235650

Nah, I'm not really comfortable getting near the Inner Circle Guys and up: I like crunchy stuff and they sound like they should be a lot more fluffy.

Just take my description and put it in your pastebin.

>>36235678
It's ok, Nob.

Show us on the doll where the wizards touched you.

>>36235738
And there's another one! Blatantly ignoring what Disney magic is actually like!

>>36235747

Mother fucker, I made that joke in thread ten!

Give me back my joke!

>>36235770
No. Jokes are like Air Bud. They go to who treats them best.

Obviously the joke loves me more.

Like the wizards must have loved Nob, tenderly, sweetly.

>>36235738
But there are wizards in Disney movies

>>36235758
You mean how there's never been a single wizard protagonist in any Disney animation ever except for MICKEY FUCKING MOUSE?

Yeah, okay. But being a D&D wizard and making my special snowflake character the best fighter, the smartest and the most sensible is totally in Disney spirit. Just look at all the source material.. Oh, wait.

>>36235787

Hey, you can just dec

>Obviously the joke loves me more.
>Like the wizards must have loved Nob, tenderly, sweetly.

My God. . .

You do deserve this joke more than me.

I'm defeated.

Go, molestation joke, and be happy with him.

and 'yes' just got 4 new voters in 20 second intervals. how unsuspicious.

>>36235809
>This argument again
So only characters who are direct rips of Disney protagonists (And ONLY protagonists) are allowed? No characters based on minor characters, no characters based on less evil versions of villains, no characters based on explained parts of the settings that didn't spawn a protagonist?
Sounds pretty boring. Why even allow people to make characters at all? Why not just stat up all of the movie protagonists and say that you can only play as those guys?

>>36235848

16 VOTES FOR YES!

WHAT THE FUCK!

WE DON'T EVEN HAVE 16 VOTERS IN THE OTTHER POLLS

>>36235872
but it's clearly not rigged, it's not like 17+12 is greater than 25 or anything.
come on. who the fuck thought this was subtle.

>>36235809
Because we all know that only movie protagonist expies are allowed and that NOBODY is supposed to make a character that isn't directly based on a main protagonist from one of our included Disney media.

Oh and that anyone who wants magic wants D&D magic, and not the very blatant forms of magic included in most Disney settings. Nope. None of that shit, just D&D 3.5 Wizards.

>>36235872

*other

Fuck me, it's 04:32 in the morining.

But still:

16 VOTES FOR YES!

COME ON, WHAT THE SHIT!

>>36235901
17.

>>36235901
More proof that the poll is rigged and should be ignored. Like I've been saying since "no" was openly countering "yes" on a 1-1 basis.

Fucking hell

All of you faggot wizards can just go play ANY OTHER game that fits it better

If you want to play in a disney setting but doesn't care about disney at all fucking fine, but the vast majority actually gives a shit about the setting, so...

Please

Go away, god damn it

>>36235923
18

Wizardry is afoot

>>36235926
they're gonna claim it's a great victory, watch.

>>36235932
just calm down. their shit aint going in the core pdf, it's going to be an expansion if it exists at all.

>>36235856
>>36235900
He makes a point here.

>>36235932
> but doesn't care about disney at all fucking fine
He says while willingly ignoring a huge part of every Disney setting and wanting to make it completely inaccessible.

>>36235932
But anon, theres magic in all of my other games! This one must have it as well

AFTER we finish the core game and are totally satisfied with moving it into PDF form as a version 1, you magicfags can make a totally optional magic expansion. This shit isn't taking precedence over fleshing out the core system.

The one piece of solace I take in this bullshit is that I doubt the wizards will actually make any rules; they'll just sit here and get petulant when the people who are making rules don't write up magic just because they rigged a poll.

>>36235957
There's already magic in this one. It's too bad they don't realize that every Disney setting absolutely drips with magic.

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>>36235856
>>36235900
Our targets are protagonists, love interests, protagonist's worthy friend-rivals and competent sidekicks. Who'd want to play mentors and villains in a Disney game?

>>36235952
Yeah, to the PCs who usually arnt primarily wizards. Name the theatrical released animated movies where the main character was a wizard.

I'll waot

>>36235856
You are playing protagonists. Magic is EVERYWHERE in Disney, but you know where it isn't? With the protagonists.

>>36235741
Here ya go. http://pastebin.com/9KgrM1tY

Ok, so what do we do?

Wait.

Wait.

Do we have to make rules for magic?

I mean, we use polls to decide which already existing rules we should use, but nothing is forcing us to make rules for them.

If we have so many lurkers who like magic, some one would clealy make rules for it.

>>36234567
ok thank you all so much for answering

Ok heres the suggestion so far

Magic Items and powers can only be gained once they have reached the second tier or higher, and must be gained via plot related reasons only, if its an item. if its a power then it can be related to background but again can only be gained once you reach middle tier or higher.

When regarding magic each item and power can only do 1 Type of magical spells.

what these types are needs to be discussed in another thread but examples would be elemental, social, empowerment, summoning etc.

For magic items there is also a magical source
this source is based on where its from, and is used mostly for asthetic and thematic purposes.
theses are

Spirit (Pochahontis's nature spirits help out the pc via this item)
Voodoo (channels with Demons from the other side)
Unholy (,rasputin, frollo (since hes now working for cherry bomb))
Cauldron (horned king, it channels magic somehow from the cauldron itself)
Sorcerous (Jafar's staff, Tritons Triton, the item uses a magic unknown)
Alantean (alantean crystals power it)
Fey (hook, maleficient - channels energy from the fey)
Any Villain that uses the same source will know someone has used it, and knows the rough location of where it was used.

you must do a roll to use said power or item, if you fail it doesnt work.
if anything higher then a mook makes you take a strike you drop the item, and must do an agility test to prevent it from breaking.

if the item breaks, horrible things will happen depending on the source

(cont)

>>36235982
So you admit to it then?
Okay everyone planning to make a character, you have to hand it over to this guy for vetting first. He's our official Protago-checker. Any character concept without enough similarity to an already made Disney Protagonist will be summarily disapproved and compared with an overpowered D&D build that you weren't trying to emulate.

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>>36235997
At least not at their fingertips, anyways.

>>36236005

Perfect.

>>36236007
If they want to, they can. They're on their own, the poll is obviously rigged (it's got ten more voters than posters in the thread) so I'm just going to ignore it.

>>36235982
Just ignore them. They're looking to pick a fight.

>>36236021
You know what I meant, Knightfag.

>>36236015
>Calls peoples arguments strawman
>Shits this out
Magic man, go home

>>36236021
Just like all of the villains who use items to channel their magic.
But fine, when a protagonist does it, we'll call it... Hmm... How about flumphing. Yeah, tht's the ticket. Protagonists Flumph with their items and villains Magic with their items. Even though it's exactly the same effect on both sides, nobody will notice because we renamed it to something other than magic.

>>36236053
He is home, in his own way. He's a magical evangelist; he wants to be wherever people aren't having enough wizards in their games.

After all, if there aren't enough wizards he can't have fun, and anyone who's having fun while he wouldn't is clearly just wrong, right?

>>36236053
I'm not the one who wants to ban all characters that don't resemble premade protagonists.
That's your main point against magic, right? That no premade protagonist uses it (Except when they use magic items, which is absolutely not the same thing that antagonists do with their own magic items)

Are we ignoring the annoying dipshits now? Cool.

So, the mooks and lackeys got boosted up, right? Exactly how much more difficult do you suppose the battles will be now?

Take the first playtest for rxample, how would that have played out?

>>36236036
>Being this salty
Wheres your inqustion now?

>>36236075
PCs never seem to channel magic of their own, though. It's almost always MAGIC SWORD POWAH! They're kids with shotguns, while only villains use magic items that require inherent magical ability or knowledge.

Well there's the Atlanteans, but hey, they're Atlanteans.

>>36236112
>>36236053
>>36236021

Just... leave them alone. Once they say something about magic, you can just safely ignore the conversation -- they're looking to start a fight. There's more important stuff to do than argue with them.

>>36236133
The battles with lackeys are going to be MUCH harder, possible TPKs. Mooks should be challenging but the group should roll over them without much effort.

If we're using the last playtest, everyone would be dead.

>>36236118

Look, here's the deal

Fine, we're wrong and want just premade characters, sure, fine, yay. You're right

You can leave us to our wrongness now

>>36236118
So your saying is, that to make a character interesting, they need some contrived bullshit magic?

>>36236150
Villains and non-protagonists in general use items too.
Seriously.
Ursula has a magic ball and a magic trident.
Jaffar had his staff and has the lamp.
Roarke got the massive crystal.
Maleficent has her staff.
The Atlanteans have their crystals.
Even Sorcerer Mickey had to get the hat before he gained any real power.

>>36236118
>I'm not the one who wants to ban all characters that don't resemble premade protagonists.
Remove 'premade' and add 'and their trusted friends that aren't mentors' to the end, and the sentence is correct.

>>36236154
Nah. We could have rekt all the mooks (Taking one or two strikes maybe) and then I would have just had to fend of No One until people could kill him.
We could easily have beat a Lackey between me and Jerimiah.

>>36236154

Welp, sounds like evil disney alright. The knight DID jump through a window

I don't properly recall how many enemies they faced aside No One, did they brawl with lackeys?

Some stuff I've been working on;


Stegosaurid:
Natural Weapons: Thrash, spikes for +3 to Brawl rolls. (see Spiked Tail)
Size: Giant (Occasionally Large)
-Armored Skin: +2 to Prevent Harm checks.
-Spiked Tail: +3 to Brawl instead of the usual +2 for natural weapons.
-Too stubborn to hurt: +2 to Endure checks, but -10 meters of land speed.
Attribute Bonuses: -2 Intelligence, +2 Robustness, +2 Sensibility.

Ceratopsid:
Natural Weapons: Horns, Thrash for +2 to Brawl rolls.
Size: Giant (Occasionally Large)
-Charge!: +2 on Brawl rolls on a charge.
-Two Hearts: +2 to Endure checks.
-1 rank in Travel.
Attribute bonuses: +2 Robustness, +2 Agility, -2 Charisma

Thoughts?

>>36236204
All of the soldiers were Lackeys in terms of stats, back when they only had one strike.

>>36236182
So magic is the ONLY thing that makes a character badwrong to play as? In that case I want to play as a full-body cyborg catgirl with a laser rifle.

>>36236217
Right, but based off our new system the soldier wouldn't have been Lackeys and we wouldn't have gotten absolutely raped by like eight lackeys in a corridor as zeroes.

>>36236234
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, GTFO.

>>36236234
Done.
Atlantean migrant from Queen La's domain with a Atlantean Laser Rifle.

Of course, Atlantis is going to be SO after you, but hey that's your fault.

>>36236285
And having that magitech rifle doesn't count as "magic"?
Interadesting.

>>36236299
what

this must be trolling

>>36236299
No.

>>36236217
Dinotastic.

How about stats on other world creatures next?
The Queen of Hearts' card guards, Heffalumps and Woozles, that kind of nonsense.

>>36236253
Well, if we're retconning them to be mooks (which probably would be wise, given the significant jump in power everything's received over the last three threads) you guys would likely have taken 1-2 strikes and faced down with No One, who was an Inner Circle so he'd have a lot more strikes and power.

>>36236299
It's a power crystal, that's all. Still, it's obviously a troll attempt so best of luck with that, 6/10 got me to reply.

>>36236319
Well, the vast majority of magic using characters in Disney films uses items. Which means that if it's okay to have magic items, then it's de facto okay to play as a Disney magic user.

>>36236334
I'll see what I can do, but I'm doing player races at the moment, and those seem more like mooks/lackeys with some attribute buffs'n shit. Any suggestions on player races?

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>>36236360
>I can wield a sword made of metal, so clearly the forces of intermolecular attraction are mine to command!

Guys, I thought we agreed to just ignore them. They'll eventually get bored and leave to go play 3.5 or something.

Well, I'm done here: it's getting very late in GMT +1 and I think we survived the wizard invasion.

Nob, in the end I just put both our rules on the 1d4chan page: I noticed that a lot of people don't really check the pastebins and I wanted everyone to have some nemies to work with.

I'll let you know how my playtest goes: we should do it tomorrow.

>>36236406
>I can wield an Atlantean crystal like a real Atlantean, so clearly I have healing powers and live forever... Oh wait.
>I can use a crystal ball as intended so clearly I have the ability to see long distances and divine parts of the future... Oh wait.

Anyone who knows how could use Jaffar's staff to hypnotize people. Anyone who knows how can use an atlantean crystal. Anyone who knows how can use a Wizard Hat.

>>36236383
Not unless you want to discern between different kinds of humans, though that seems a bit useless.

>>36236438

Monks are overpowered and Wizards need more spells.

>>36236449
Thanks. I'll be running with the hardcore rules (TN25 to hit, +16 to attack) and we'll see what the body count is. Feel free to attend if you want, it's at 4:30 EST.

>>36236449
>I just put both our rules on the 1d4chan page
Thanks, I usually use that

>>36236438
>Anyone who wants to use magic has to be talking about magic as it is in D&D, and not magic as it is in Disney settings.
Will you please let this tired old strawman rest already? The crows perch on his arms, ffs.

>>36236009
(the roll to cast spell will be based on your highest attribute)

Voodoo - ARE YOU READY! - 5 voodoo spirits in power equal to Inner Circles appear from the item trying to take the user into the other side
they are immune to magical effects and cannot be harmed by anyone else but the user
the user will be fine if they leave the area that holds the items remains, however all voodoo demons theuser encounterswill be hostile until he accepts his fate.

Sorcerous - No No NO! -The item merely shatters in a ball of light blinding the user for the rest of the day, only villains were immune to this because they used these items for years. the user must have a friend spend their turn to assist him whenever he wants to do a roll that(in game) day.

Unholy - Let Your EVIL Shine!
Chernobog flying imps wreak havoc across the landscape, causing 1 strike's worth of damage to everyone thats in the area and it continues every 10 minutes they stay in the area. they cannot use will to avoid this damage.

Sprits - The sprits they scream. - all of nature shouts, screams and cries in a twisted cresendo.
the user can do no rolls for 10minutes and all nearby creatures will ethier flee or attack the user (if theyre sentient like pride beasts they flee in anger)

Cauldron - You Do not know the cauldrons power
a dark mist fills the area as all heroes temporaily lose their will

Alantean- power surge - as kida's horrifying screams of pain echo the area the crystal used explodes violently doing an extra strike to the user. if the user dies from this he returns as an alantean crystalized monster.

Fey - I do not and never will believe! - as the used fey wither and die, a feeling of dark pessimism fills your mind. you get -2 to all your attributes

>>36236455
It's a long, LOOOONG jump between being able to manipulate what few magic items you manage to get your grubby little hands on (Jafar was the Grand Vizier, and he only managed to get his hands on three!) into performing their intended function and being able to call yourself a magic user.

>>36236507
>>36236495

No problem.

I'll also be using the same rules and we shall see how it goes.

Consider of course that my players are a bunch of optimizers with raging hard-ons for crunch, so if there are holes in the system they are going to find them and rape them.

>>36236592
Don't let them get their hands on good guns, then. It's gonna be bad if they do.

oh, and do try to get as many class powers/traits/skills in as possible, we are actually looking for flaws, not just fun.

>>36236573
Except that's literally what a Disney magic user is. Someone with a handful (Or maybe just one) of items that they know how to use for magic. If they're really powerful, it's because they've got something like Maleficent's staff or the Wizard Hat.
The only powerful magic I can think of without an item is the Horned King's teleportation.

You've bought into the strawman of D&D casters so much that you've been completely ignoring that all I want is to play as a Disney magic user.

>>36236334
Maybe those should have a rule where to kill them, you have to scrore both a emotinal and physical strike on them?

>>36236624
Well then, by that definition one of your Goals should be to get your hands on such a rare and obviously hoarded item. Play a smart guy. Make him an academic. When he actually gets it, then he's got some magic behind him and the Occult score to know how to activate it without throwing yourself to the Other Side/hell/being torn apart.

but as it stands; There's no way you'd have that at character creation, and most of the remaining ones are very, very evil.

>>36236624
Then use a magical item. Theres no need for powers or shit to be added to characters

>>36236624
>The only powerful magic I can think of without an item is the Horned King's teleportation.
Genies. Maleficent (the staff is just there to look cool). All the fae. Merlin. Madam Mim. The three witches from the Black Cauldron. Voodoo (many spells require no items). Not to mention all the villains who speak of their talent for magic as if it's something that they were born with and can't be learned.

Sorry for a dumb question, but is this setting take place in a time-shattered realm, or is it like the 1930s, with the villains being immortal through various means (primarily Gothel), and tech levels in Europe and Asia being somewhat less than they could be due to gratuituous dickery from evil mages?

I was in the earlier threads, but missed on when you guys decided on this.

>>36236744
It's time-shattered. Chernobobobo screwed up everything.

>>36236733
Genies don't use witchcraft/wizardry.
Fae and Voodoo magic are different kinds of magic entirely.

And villains ALWAYS brag as if they were god's gift to the world and everything they have is due to their inherent betterness. It's a solid trope of Disney films.

>>36236564
as for powers

the pc (or gm if theyre giving it to them via plot) must declare an 'activation' for the power

this activation means that the power can only be activated on certain circumstances

current ideas for these are
-player must be on x strike or higher
- Player can when on x strike or lower
- Player can spend 1 will to use it
etc

powers can only be used twice per in game day
the power cannot fail as horribly as a magic item can but can still fail to work.

>>36236009
>>36236564


what you guys think of this as a basic summary of how magic could work

>>36235386
1) Obviously not, that's game breaking and very much not Disney
2) That could be a function of it, but I'd rather let potions and magic items do that
3) Even though we are going for nobledark, yes, but not only mechanically. I think if there is magic. it should attract the attention of mobs and witch-hunts, and also the attention of the kings.
4) I have no idea what that means.

My opinion is this. Magic in Disney is extraordinary. PCs are designed to be extraordinary, so PCs should be able to do magic (though, I would limit it to one per party, because a wizard team is just too much). It is also very Disney for magic to be very linked to personal growth (See: wizard mickey, elsa) and so the ability to use it effectively, both in application and outcome should be linked to character growth

>Zero: what the fuck wizard shit is happening.
>On A Roll: I know what this does, mostly, now how do I control it?
>Hero: Aww yiss fuckin magic

So, in my opinion, yes their should be the option for magic. But magic can't be treated as a means to an end, it has to be a significant part of a person's character, and the ability to control and use it has to be linked to character development.

That being said, magicfags, stop being such whiny bitches about it. I've been on the losing end of more than one argument (RIP East Asian Co-Prosperity Syndicate) but being butthurt about how things aren't going your way and attacking namefags who work to keep the project on track does nothing but ruin everyone else's fun. Making home brews is about fun, not winning
I'll be watching you. Aaaallways watching you

>>36236725
I never said that I wanted powers added directly to the character. That's your strawman speaking again.
And where are the rules for magic items? Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see them.

>Genies don't use witchcraft/wizardry.
Right, it's sorcery.
>Fae and Voodoo magic are different kinds of magic entirely.
Still magic. I don't see how these being different kinds of magic makes my point invalid, especially when voodoo is explicitly available to humans.
>And villains ALWAYS brag as if they were god's gift to the world and everything they have is due to their inherent betterness. It's a solid trope of Disney films.
Who's to say they're not right about magic use though? It IS awfully rare, and those skilled at it seem to pop up in random places.

>>36236733
>Genies:
Natural Magical beings. Use cosmic powers, and unless freed, are more akin to items

>Maleficent (the staff is just there to look cool). All the fae:
All nature magic. More like Aurora Borealis than human magic


>Merlin. Madam Mim.:
Both use wands. Both are also incredibly intelligent and ancient. Were talking Intelligence 30 here, and one/both of them are crazy

>The three witches from the Black Cauldron: Who?

>Voodoo (many spells require no items):
They all involve making pacts with supernatural beings or forces, wether it be light or dark

>>36236733
Maleficent and Merlin are called out as extraordinary, even for magic users. And source on the staff being just for show?

thank you to everyone that participated in the questions, this is what ive come up with based on everyones feedback
>>36236009
>>36236564
>>36236779

>>36236834
Genie magic is complicated, you have to make 5 to 10 pop culture references before you can do anything with it.

>>36236830
Disney itself disagrees with you.
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Magic#Types_of_Magic
These things are well defined (Except for Genie, who is clearly not of the Wizard/Witch type, but doesn't really fit anywhere else, either)

>>36236806
You make them up. Use a magic item

>>36236834
>The three witches from the Black Cauldron: Who?
Orddu, Orwen and Orgoch.

In any event, those naturally magic beings are Disney's standards for magic users. You want to use magic items? Better adopt a different title.

>>36234639
Keep in mind, Elsa has the ability to create sentient ice golem minions, and has powers with no obvious limit. She probably can blow Ursula out of the water. Sorcerer Jafar is "the most powerful sorcerer in the world", so he probably has equal power. Chernabog can probably also bring that level of power, and maybe Hades

>>36236733
Elsa's magic is probably them most powerful 'all-natural' magic in a human in the Disneyverse.

>>36236915
Except they aren't.
"Natural" magic users don't fall under Wizard/Witch. They fall under Dragon Magic, Fairy Magic, or something like that. Wizards and Witches are not "Natural" magic users. They learn to use magic and generally need items unless they are major antagonist level powerful. A PC level one would probably have a wand or staff to start with and probably couldn't do much more than push stuff around at a distance, animate brooms and other small objects, and MAYBE scry a bit.

>>36236961

see
>>36236952


The existence of Elsa's magical shit means that sorcery can be 'natural'.

>>36236878
All of the magics listed can be used by humans, and all potentially without items. Step up your game.

>>36236978
It can be "natural" but it's not witchcraft or wizardry.
There are at least 5 different kinds of magic in Disney, not counting "Disney Magic" which is what creates the mascots at the IRL parks and lets them know each other.

>>36236799
Even so, I think magic should be highly restricted, likely per-campaign. It makes sense that a character could fall in with the Friends in the Shadowlands, but it makes a lot less sense if the adventure takes place in the Pridelands, Australia, etc. Moreover, magic really needs to be tightly controlled so it doesn't become an incredibly wide source of powers because then it'll overshadow the other classes.

Not that they care, they'd soon see me removed because I've been on the losing side of two arguments over the past two days.

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>>36236994

>>36237003
>>36237005
>>36236994
>>36236984
>>36236874

read and give more feedback, thank you.
>>36236868

>>36236799
>>36237003
I would be okay with magic implemented in such a way, but I share Nob's concerns about magic shit taking over other character's roles and being too powerful. If we do write an expansion, we should make sure we don't leave room for wizards to just bullshit their way above everyone with no effort.

>>36237003
>Australia
You know, I never quite understood the Dreamtime, but I think it could make for some interesting magic. Best applied through the Shaman Power, of course.

Any 'Straylans about care to explain what Dreamtime magic might be like?

>>36236984
>Wizardry/Witchcraft
Only the tip top of the power level can use magic without items. And even they usually use items.
>Voodoo
Make pacts with a spirit or the dead. Not done entirely by yourself.
>Dragon
Be a dragon, be part dragon, or have power invested in you by a dragon. Not natural to humans unless their ancestor was shagged by a dragon
>Fairy
Be a fairy or have a fairy invest the power in you. Not natural to humans.
>Disney
Natural to humans if you assume that anyone in a mascot costume is human. That's a dangerous assumption.

>>36237005
That specifically says that they use items and then lists some practitioners.

New and more organized Beasts pastebin!: http://pastebin.com/PwVr9VeT

>>36237050'
Elsa. So many items used.

>natural
I never claimed that itemless magic would be natural; why is it do you think that magic-users speak of themselves as if they are inherently better than everyone else?

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>>36237059
Elsa doesn't use witchcraft or wizardry. Her power is something else. Possibly Fairy, but probably a Miscellaneous category on her own.

>>36237078
I don't see 'Elsa magic' listed as a type.

>>36237076
So the very tip top of the power level? Like I fucking said.
Elsa is an anomaly compared to all other magic users in Disney settings.

>>36237101
Oh, okay, you're that anon. I thought you were the other anon.

>>36237095
There also isn't "Genie Magic" or "Cosmic Power Magic" listed, so clearly, Genie doesn't use magic at all. Right?

>>36237119
PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER is far beyond mere magic, anon.

>>36237119
Genie magic is just fairy magic.

Goodnight everyone! Congratulations on THIRTY THREADS! Remember to archive this once it the time is right!

>>36237166
Probably.

But my point is, the lower end (Meaning the end that could potentially house Player Characters) of Wizardry/Witchcraft needs items to use magic, and the higher end that can cast spells without any items is restricted to the super antagonists anyway.

>>36236009
you want a review that bad, huh?
Okay;
First of all; what roll would you use for this? Occult would be the most obvious, but it's not like knowing what magic does makes it any easier to channel a divine artifact's power or make a deal with the Friends.

>villains automatically knowing where you are
Dealbreaker. By the time that you get this, every major villain should be after you.

>makes a strike you drop the item, test agility
we don't have agility tests. I'd say legerdemain or Athletics would make more sense, though. Remember that strikes can be social and mental as well as physical.

>>36236564
horrible things happening sounds fine.

Voodoo: Extremely harsh at mid levels, trivial at high levels.
Sorcerous: If they're destroyed that easy, why would anyone keep them around where they can be stolen?
Unholy: Gotta remember that not all unholy magic comes from Chernabog, but it's okay. How far out do they affect?

>spirits;
Can do no rolls? not even to resist fear or prevent being Struck? Harsh as shit at all levels.

Cauldron; How they have access to the cauldron is beyond me, but losing all your will points seems fine.

>Atlantean: It's not even really magic. It's like an ancient advanced power source.

>Fey:
Way, way too easy to shrug off unless it's permanent, in which case DAMN THAT'S LIKE 70 LESSONS WORTH OF ATTRIBUTE LOSS

>>36236779
Too tired to figure out how this works. Seems fine in this section, nothing leaps out at me. We'd need a better idea of what magical items actually do before I can actually pass judgement.


>>36237078
She's literally listed under Witchcraft. What the fuck, mate? Straight-up ignoring the truth is a new low.

>>36237164
>>36237166
Genies don't need such primitive methods as 'magic', they just manipulate the world itself to suit their needs.

>>36237210
True enough. Still, I think if you started calling guys who used magic items 'occult archeologists' or some shit like that which wouldn't trigger everyone's caster edition PTSD, we'd be able to converse more civilly.

>>36237231
> It's not even really magic. It's like an ancient advanced power source.
That's splitting hairs. Just having a crystal on your person lets you heal wounds and live indefinitely. It might as well be magic.

>>36237291
Whatever. They've always been called Wizards, Witches, or Sorcerers, but hey, if it will avoid triggering the incessant squealing and endless strawmen, then I'll call them "item users" instead.

>>36237305
And yet it works by distinctly different rules, has none of the other trappings of magic, and in this setting is used as a power source by the United Atlantean States.

>>36237349
"Item users"? Come now, I didn't say 'give them a BORING name'. Surely you have more creativity than that.

The suggested traits don't seem to have any internal balance. Some are so broad that they can apply great bonuses more than half the time, while others are pretty much situational to the point of uselessness.

-Chivalry
+3 to all social skills so long as you follow the warrior's code of your own culture.

-STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM!!
+2 to Intimidate, Melee, Ranged and Prevent Harm against the criminal element.
as opposed to this: -The Rum is Never Gone
Being a pirateis a hard lifestyle, oftentimes needing a hard drink to make it a little more tolerable. A Man or Woman of the Sea is able at any moment to find or produce from their person a flask or bottle of alcohol upon need.

>>36237353
>rules
Such as?
>None of the trappings of magic
You use the item to do miraculous things. That's how magic works in many Disney films.
>In this setting
Okay. What difference does it make if their power source is "magic" or "sufficiently advanced macguffin technology"

>>36237383
Chivalry seems pretty fine to me.

Stop right there might be a bit overpowered, and you're totally right that The Rum is Never Gone is useless because it's clearly a joke trait.

>>36237389
Presentation, mainly. But presentation is important.
>>36237455
I don't know, there are a lot of occasions where the ability to pull alcohol out of nowhere would be worth a pretty hefty diplomacy bonus.

>>36237455
I say keep The Rum Is Never Gone, but make it useful. Make the rum give you a bonus against Fear.

>>36237389

>>36237383
No, they don't. Those specific traits were not originally part of the general traits section, but are instead individual character traits balanced against the rest of the character that got throw into the pile.
Also;
holy shit, how did someone think that Stop Right There was even close to balanced. That's +2 to four stats for only one disadvantage.

>>36237389
>rules
There is no incantation, no gesture required, and no deal with an otherworldly being to activate it, unlike pretty much all magic in the universe except for Fae magic in Peter Pan, which is sort of... interesting, and not followed anywhere else. They're batteries. Possibly magic, possibly advanced, but batteries.

>you use the item to do miraculous things.
That's so broad as to be applied to almost anything technological past the level of the dark ages.

>what difference does it make if their power source is magic or sufficiently advanced technology
It doesn't function like other magic. It's less of a magical item and more like... half of a magical item, it's the power source without anything to focus it. It's just a battery of possibly magical, possibly technological origin.


But to be honest, I don't care. It's late, I'm tired, and this entire conversation is beyond retarded, instigated only because I was too dumb to not pick up the bait.

>>36237529
The Stop Right There was what made me post.

>>36237349
They use items to supplement their own powers.
Player characters should not be able to be spellcasters. Only alchemists, scientists, and engineers.

>>36237572
You could probably balance it by making it +2 to Melee and Brawl against a member of the criminal element who you have seen commit a crime. That'd be flavorful AND fit the balance schema!

>>36237003
I do agree, magic shouldn't just be another class or some upgrade. Magic has to be an integral part of a character's story. I think the magic has to be narrative in nature, with the abilities and limits being defined by the GM working with the player. Since this is a narrative game, I don't think its unreasonable for a GM to restrict the abilities of magic for story and game-play purposes. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a crunch guy, so I can't contribute to how this would be mechanically shown in game, but I think that magic is not something that should be restricted to a class.

>>36237031
Yes. In my opinion, wizard classes are right out. I love me playing magical characters, but boy oh boy do I have to narratively handicap them for them to not completely overpower the rest of the party. This game isn't about murderhoboing, it's about storytelling, so I advocate for narrative restrictions, which means that I am calling for an even more dreaded power

GM fiat[/spoiler

>>36237631
Perfect!

>>36237581
>>36237719
I say make the flavor of magic divided in two:

Inherent magic, which is all magic that uses no items or comes purely from spoken spells, and can only be used by PCs in the most basic level, or with great risk of harm to the player. Think similar to Call Of Cthulhu magic. It may be useful/necessary, but it isn't made for you, you are just exploiting something made for others. Ex: Elsa, Genie, and Tink, and Hades.
and
Item Magic, which is all magic that is derived from artifacts. These are more neutral in flavor, and can be as common or rare as the GM wants. Some may be inherently evil, and can corrupt their users, but some can be inherently good, only able to be used properly by one pure of heart.

This serves to keep players from losing their underdog status against the villains (because who wants to see Scar fighting a hero who can just kill him by dropping a mountain on him), while still having access to the magical side of the world

>>36237863
>This serves to keep players from losing their underdog status against the villains (because who wants to see Scar fighting a hero who can just kill him by dropping a mountain on him)
When you reach Hero tier, that might not be far off what what you'd be capable of.

>>36237878
Yes, but Scar can and will do it back.
>>36237863
We'd need to be exceedingly careful with Inherent magic. Perhaps represent it in a power or two, but no entirely new mechanics yet, we're struggling to balance the game as-is.

>>36237631
>>36237572
Yeah.....my logic when I made that trait was "they can only use two of those traits at the same time, right?" Though I guess if it needs nerfing, I'd prefer "+2 to Prevent Harm and to one attack skill of your choice chosen when this trait is gained."

>>36237902
I was thinking Inherent magic would be something that runs terrible risks. You could risk consequences ranging from alerting a sorcerer-king to your location and presence, to losing a Will point until you go on some task to redeem yourself, to sacrificing your life and going full-out Big Damn Hero with it. It would probably be something that was either introduced in campaigns as a nuclear option/last resort or something where you only get the weakest aspects possible, like quick healing, glowing, or temporary buffs.

>>36237765
I agree. Let's just drop it and go back to tweaking Music.

I mean, look at Hannah. She doesn't have any magic, but her songs are the equivalent of a sleep spell and a bless spell. There are other ways to portray magic then fireballs.

Now that the plague of wizards has passed, I guess it's time to write some more.
Anybody have topic suggestions?

>>36238465
I'd like to consider a morality system, so the noblebright heroism of the players can be rewarded mechanically, and we can represent the struggle to do good in this world

>>36238441
Against my better judgement, Music is still hard to do and just... Doesn't offer that much. Much as polls are useful for determining crowd support, I think some of their judgements are going to have to be overturned, especially the one related to music: for a Disney game, it's really hard to make your music useful. Should we give it an offensive use?

>>36238465
I warned you. Nobody listened. Anyway, could you do a King/Land/Rule for the Pridelands? Failing that, Facilier and Yzma taunting each other would be nice.

>>36238520
I've never been a fan of that concept. Characters shouldn't receive incentive to act one way or another.

>>36238465
Yzma's latest 'plan' on how to defeat El Dorado should be good for a laugh.

>>36238465
Let this be a reminder to all those who pass through this realm
>Don't mention wizards

>>36238568
>I've never been a fan of that concept. Characters shouldn't receive incentive to act one way or another.
By and large, I'd agree. The reason I did bring it up though, is that it is a disney game, and presumably everyone plays as disney-style heroes rather than, say, grimdark vigilantes who are out for the blood of the one who killed their sister. I was thinking less of a slider and more of a bonus for roleplaying that would give players a mechanical reason to go out of their way to save the village full of puppies. But you're probably right

>>36238707
We sort of have that in the form of Ideals: positive things a character would like to fulfill.

You get XP from It, and it's the main way to do it.

>>36238707
Wasn't the way to gain xp to fulfill ideals and goals?

>>36238520
>>36238811
Yeah, I think sticking to your ideals and goals is the best way to satisfy that.
>>36238549
I could do a quick one of those for the Pridelands, sure.
>>36238549
>>36238568
Something Yzma then. I'll think of something.

My dear compatriots.

It may be a bit pre-emptive, but the thirtieth thread of Disney Villains Victorious has just been archived. Please remember to vote it and the previous thread up if you care to!

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+Villains+Victorious

>>36238549
King: Scar
Scar is an opportunistic and conniving king, having disposed of both his brother by a lucky coincidence, and his nephew by his insidious tongue, he rules over all beasts of the savannah. Technically the rightful ruler, he spares no opportunity to lord his position over others. The lionesses hunt for Scar, tracking what little prey remains while contending with the ravenous hyenas, secretly under Scar's command to drive the huntresses onward. Despite his fearsome persona as a cunning king, Scar is a slothful ruler, content to rest on the work of his subjects.

Lands: The Pridelands
The once verdant hunting grounds of the lions are grey and barren, the vast majority of animals would rather take their chances in the jungles of Queen La than to risk wasting away. Grasses and trees have withered and more resemble the elephant graveyard where the hyenas stage their attacks from. The land itself radiates famine, a deep hunger that can never be satisfied as long as the usurper Scar continues to neglect it. As long as the players remain in the Pridelands, a deep hunger will gnaw away at them. Supplies will dwindle more quickly as food, firewood, even potions are consumed at a double rate. Whether the players run out of food or have an obvious oversupply of it, the lionesses and hyenas at Scar's command will quickly find them.

Rule: The Decadent King
Scar has grown so comfortable that he does not consider many things in his lands a threat. If the players do not prove themselves a physical threat, he will likely ignore all reports of the players' presence. However, he is also paranoid about maintaining his power. Besting even a few hyenas could trigger escalation from Scar. He has long coveted his kingdom and would savagely fight to keep it. Scar cares little about the human lands, but if the players have already defeated one of the other beast kings such as Shere Khan, he will certainly strike first, quickly and ruthlessly.

>>36239372
If the Lion King is any indication, it's pretty likely that a Beast King can affect the land he rules. After all, Scar's rule didn't just kill a lot of other animals, it also turned the whole place grey and grody.

>>36235932
Sensible Guys and Intelligent Guys are very rarely the main protagonist. That's typically the Strong Guy, Nimble Guy or Charming Guy.The fact that those exist makes your "violating teh rules of Disney" argument bullshit. >>36235932

>>36239766
Guys, please, save it for the expansions. Okay? Okay.

>>36239907
Well, what crunch needs to be done beforehand?

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>>36238549
>>36238568
Bam, Yzma's brilliant brilliant plan is set.
http://pastebin.com/KmstqQFZ

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>>36240586

You guys are making this much more complex then it needs to be.

People want to be magic? Just pick some traits and powers that make sense as magic powers. Maybe we could create some that better reflect certain classical magic tropes, but we're pretty much set.

>>36239372
Oh God, I like what you did, but this is more skin and bones than the animals in the Pridelands. These are supposed to be the main info dumps for the players regarding the villains; meaning that they may be the most important piece of fluff for this game. Please expand a little.

>>36241046
Fair enough. I was trying to fit it all in one post.

As for music, what are the current benefits? I mean in general, not with special traits

Added a little, but I'm not sure what else should be explained, I don't do much in the K/L/R department.
http://pastebin.com/VZb1MfY3

>>36241093
I think music can currently give a boost to other skills. Whistle while you work and all that.

>>36240586
>http://pastebin.com/KmstqQFZ
Absolutely perfect. Yzma's dragging her presentation easel down the entire length of the lecture hall made me laugh aloud and I read the entire thing in both of their voices.

>>36240586

Spot on characterization. Could definitely hear Patrick Warburton and Eartha Kitt going at it. And plus, that fucking easel bit had me in hysterics.

I apologize if this has been asked before, but how would you fellows rank which Kings are the easiest to live under and rank the different Lands in terms of quality of life? There are a number of Lands that are clearly magical wastelands like Arendelle, Hades' Hellenic Hell and Cherry Bomb's Domain, but others like the Wild West, Hun Dynastic China and the Sunless Empire seem relatively livable, and the Atlantean Isles have been portrayed as pretty comfortable, if militaristic place to live.

File: Atlantis-The-Lost-Empire-(...).png (1.71 MB, 1920x1080)

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I'm thinking I might try my hand at writing something else, but I'm wondering what everyone might enjoy seeing more, given the following ideas:

1. Daily life in Atlantis featuring Mahrikatohka and/or the original Expedition characters.

2. Empress Yzma the First and Last shares a tender moment with Kronk Prime.

3. Cruella DeVille and the Huntsmen have cocktails and aboard Muntz' airship.

4. A continuation of "The Hunt" in which the protagonist speaks with Clarisse the Beast.

>>36242215
3.

>>36242296
>>36242215
Who are all the members of the Huntsmen anyhow?

>>36239766
>main protagonist

I mean, I guess we kinda did have one in the first play test but that's because one player designed theirs based off of Disney prices.

>>36242532

I really don't see anything wrong with Intelligent or Sensible Guys and Gals being the heroes. More characters, more play styles, more stories. Besides, after the Villains rise to power, I bet that a lot of the Strong and Nimble heroes were done-off anyhow, freeing up a little room for different sorts of heroes.

>>36242568
No ones arguing for taking out non-combat heroes, are they? Cause that's retarded.

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Fuck, Marry, Kill.

I'm not really into fat chicks, but given the choice between two bony prunes with facial warts and chick with lots of junk to grope, the junk wins every time.

>>36242486
Gaston, McLeach, Clayton, Buldeo, Amos Slade, Muntz and The Man.

>>36242712

No, not at all. Just rhetorical support for heroes of all types to get some time in the limelight is all

>>36242795
Thanks!

>>36234567
So what else needs to be done before we can move on to the expansions?

>>36243111
The big one is playtesting. Over the last two threads we've been fucking with TN, and I'm not exactly sure how it's all going to play out. We still need Kings/Lands/Realms, we need more generic traits and powers, the crunch for the Inner Circle and Villains needs to be finished. We need to do the Heroic Traits and Heroic Powers, and we need to clarify the usages of skills.

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>>36243111
>'before we move onto the expansions'
>not 'before we move into beta'
That's a mighty suspicious question. It's almost as if all you're interested in throwing in some of those tarnated spell-slinging varmints.....

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>>36243151
Im more intrested in adding non-Disney movies and tv shows

Pic related

>>36243151

Now now, let's keep things civil.

What are all your opinions on traits and powers that are not, strictly speaking, mechanical but are a bit more nuanced than that? The one I was thinking of as an example was the "Speaking the Mother Tongue" / "Atlantean Omniglot" trait that would allow characters of Atlantean descent or those willing to study the language the ability to speak and understand the different languages of the world solve language-based problems more easily. It's not trait or a power that is strictly mechanical, but is something shown in the original movie that all Atlanteans were capable of.

>>36243199

What the fuck is that?

>>36243240
Have it give a large bonus to Linguistics.

>>36243252

Hey Nob. Given both the Movie Atlanteans' apparently perfect linguistic comprehension and the need to balance Game Atlanteans against other characters, how big a Linguistic bonus do you think would be appropriate?

>Atlantean Omniglot:
>Atlanteans have the innate ability to speak all languages, and may instantly pass all Linguistic checks related to languages as they are spoken. This ability does not affect the character still having to learn written languages, alphabets and symbolic characters.

>>36243141

Which K/L/R are still left? I know people were still pumping them out last thread.

As for the skills, I thought they were pretty straightforward? Just, you know, a bonus?

As for the heroic traits, we had four, I think. Not sure if anyone made a power. What would be a possibly good one? The theme is "Active when you need to Hero", right?

>>36243426

Yzma's K was completed and her L was started, but it and the R weren't finished. I could try to complete it.

>>36243496

If you can, please do. Was it you who started it originally?

>>36243504

It was actually, and I apologize for leaving it unfinished. I got caught up in the rush of all these threads and has forgotten about it. I'll finish it today.

>>36243355
Atlanteans couldnt speak animal, so do we need to specify different human languages for them to know?

>>36243249
The Beast from "Over The Garden Wall"

>>36243355
On the subject of Linguistics: since your Linguistics rank is basically the number of languages you know minus one, perhaps it shouldn't work like conventional skill checks.

When trying to understand a language you don't know, you gain a bonus to your intelligence roll from any similar languages you know. Each related language provides a bonus between +1 and +3, with more closely related languages providing larger bonuses. If you don't know any related languages, you talk a -3 penalty UNLESS the situation is that another party is speaking to you in a foreign language and realizes that you don't speak their tongue. If so, the other party can make an easy Intelligence check to remove your penalty by talking slowly and using body language and hands.

Also, I've seen plenty of animal characters with 'Human' written down as a language, and I remember an episode of the Hercules cartoon where no language barrier existed between him and Aladdin. Are humans even going to speak different tongues in this setting?

>>36243580

We could just say that they have the innate ability to speak all human languages specifically, but the idea of them being able to speak beast and fae languages also really amuses me.

>>36243693

I feel like languages shouldn't be a hard and fast impediment to interactions within a campaign, but at the same time I also think that. Whole lot of fun can be had with the setting having different languages, especially given an Atlantean's ability to speak them all.

>>36243355
I'd say make it something ridiculous like +10, and make it a power choice. No nationality gets something for nothing.
>>36243693
Animals can speak Human, which is just a convention at the moment because we're not sure what's happening with languages.
Also: Linguistics is used to decode things, read hieroglyphics, etc.

>>36243896
I still think that the idea that bonuses only come from knowing related languages is valid. Still, knowing many languages gives some insight into the nature of all languages, so perhaps a compromise is in order: add your linguistics rank OR the bonuses from knowing similar languages, whichever is higher.

So how does the whole KLR thing work from a fluff sense? And please don't just tell me "It just works", because I fucking hate that explanation.

>>36243964
Somebody came up with something a while back. Something about ancient kings casting spells that bound their lands to their will, and the First Emperor of China doing something different and causing the spirits of the dead to stay there and guide their ancestors, also leading to all the shit going down over there today.

>>36243964
Ever heard of the Fisherman King? If the king is good the land is peaceful and prosper, if the king is a douche the land sucks.

>>36244009
Yes, that's how it works from a crunch perspective. We're talking fluff.

>>36244028
Well, what was the Fisher King's fluff? Because we'll just shamelessly steal that.

>>36244004
Then what's Cherrybomb doing? Where does he come from? If Walt created the universe, which I think is what happened, then why create him? Maybe he's the incarnation of that which was not created. All that was outside the universe, somehow leaking in through a tiny hole in reality, feeding off of the positive energy of the universe and empowering his own evil, to take a form of majestic and terrible power.

>>36244050
>If Walt created the universe, which I think is what happened, then why create him?
Satan was God's favorite angel before he fell.

>>36243896

I almost do think that each nationality or race could get something for nothing if it was a trait or power intrinsically tied to how they were portrayed in their movie, but really, I don't want to over complicate things or make a fuss.

>>36244061
That's actually a pretty good idea. Not to mention Cherrybomb, according to some fluff, saw the power of love and friendship then decided there should be something more. Perhaps that's what he did - he was granted full control over the power of love and friendship, at the behest of his creator and father, who wanted to bless his favoured son. But as has happened before when he was given magic, he tried to go too far, and so he fell from grace. Before he was Chernabog, he was his father's favourite and eldest child. His old name was Mickey.

>>36244096
I think you mean Oswald

>>36244106
Oh sheeeet

I still want him for the wasteland, if we ever add it in

>>36244106
Either works. Either way, the player shouldn't know this. Nobody in the setting does, except for Walt himself. Maybe Cherrybomb still remembers who he was, or maybe he's forgotten.