>>35412214
Also, Kayako’s Mother was a priestess like yourself. There was professional honor. Not to mention that if she never said anything like ‘I have such plans for you’ or any other red flags like that. If she did, you’d be going across the street in a shot.

So, you considered your partnership with Kayako’s Mother to be a positive thing, and something that you had under control.

That was why, after she recovered from that blast thing, (which you SO don’t buy that the Lunactics weren’t responsible for) Kayako’s Mother (You refer to her as KM) asking you to go into the containment field to rescue the good part of her daughter’s soul, didn’t seem like a completely bad idea. She also offered to tell more private secrets and that it would be instrumental for KM herself to pass on.

Yurei was more than helpful in setting up the equipment that would send your spirit into the Ghostbuster’s special ghost-box. It also didn’t hurt that there were instruction manuals in three-ring-binders as well. She did insist on coming along though. You were on the fence, but it was clear that the little ghost girl wasn’t going to take no for an answer, and that it might be a good idea to have a second pair of ‘hands’ to help.

Things went okay, at first. You went inside and the whole place was, forgive the pun, dead silent. You saw a few ghosts just lying on the ground, completely out cold. KM directed you into the big spooky manor that was in this black and white world.

It really was a reconstruction of the castle from Kurosawa’s ‘Throne of Blood.’ Although the inside of the place was a dizzying nightmare of corridors, rooms, and surfaces that shifted in style from modern to ancient, sometimes in just the span of a few steps.

KM was leading the both of you, guiding you through the endless maze, and past rooms filled with unconscious ghosts.

It was when you hit the garden that things went south.

(cont)

>>35412214
You were walking over a small bridge that went across a black koi pond. You heard something splash in the pond, and without thinking, you looked.

You heard KM shout a warning. And then something erupted out of the water with a shriek. You felt something wet grab you from behind. You saw Yurei get pulled under the water. Then everything went dark.

You woke up in a small room, if it’s more than 7x7 you’d be surprised. Wooden walls, rotted wooden ceiling, and a dirty linoleum tiled floor.

You don’t see any sign of a door.

Crap.

> Feel around the room, maybe there’s a hidden door.
> Try and kick/shoulder/force your way out of this place.
> Calm down, focus, and see if you can’t contact KM
> Other

>>35412286
AAAAAWWWW YEEEAH! GB time.

Feel around for a hidden door. Throw a thought to KM, see if she can't hear.

>>35412286
> Calm down, focus, and see if you can’t contact KM

>>35412228
>thought it was a positive thing
>something that you had under control.
Yep. Classic blunder in book 101 of the "things that are always wrong"

Also man this is a major oversight on the GB if whatever she used to get in and out (and subsequently pull a ghost out) wasn't stopped by our security systems, handprints, passcodes. I blame the low budget.

>>35412744
>>35412536
This

>>35412286
> Feel around the room, maybe there’s a hidden door.

>>35412286
>Calm down, focus, and see if you can’t contact KM

>>35412286
>Feel about for a secret door
Now all we need is a dog

>>35412286
> Feel around the room, maybe there’s a hidden door.

>>35412286
> Calm down, focus, and see if you can’t contact KM

>>35412744
You take a deep breath, and sit cross-legged on the floor and focus. You open up your mind, like you were taught, and you search for KM's Presence.

*Mph. What happened?* A voice asks.

*We got caught.* You reply.

*That water brat. She has a bloodline connection to Oiwa. Of course she would have recovered swiftly.* She scowls. *She must have detected that child. It was a bad idea to allow her to come.*

*It wasn't as if we were being subtle.* You say.

*We were fine.* KM says. *I was hiding us. Either way, we need a way out.*

*What about Yurei?* You ask.

*I would worry more about ourselves, girl.* KM says. *She's either locked up or worse. Priorities. Always know what's important, and your own Safety is always number 1.*

You get up and feel around the walls. *Wait.* KM says. *Clever. This is a dissociative cell, probably the whole mansion is, once you're inside it. Alright, girl. You need to think that a door is here, AND that it'll lead us to Kayako.*

*We're still going after her?* You ask. *What about Yurei? Or your whole 'safety' bit?*

*If we can free Kayako, she'll be able to help. She has more power in here than I.* KM says. *Now, stop wasting our time and focus! A door AND that the door is connected to...somewhere useful!*

"Bossy..." You mutter, but she's always been like that.

> Focus on just a door that'll open to the mansion. Easiest thing to do.
> Focus on a door that opens to 'Someplace safe' a little vague but it should be okay.
> Focus on a door that leads to 'The Good Kayako' this will probably take a lot of work, but if you pull it off, you're golden.
> Other

Remember how last Saichiko mission we flipped flopped between taking risks and playing it safe, thus ending up with a very mediocre middle?

I say this time we learn from that, and stick to something. And that we go bold.
>“Given the same amount of intelligence, timidity will do a thousand times more damage than audacity” ~ Carl von Clausewitz

>>35413644
> Focus on a door that leads to 'The Good Kayako' this will probably take a lot of work, but if you pull it off, you're golden.

>>35413644
>44
>Focus on a door that leads to 'The Good Kayako' this will probably take a lot of work, but if you pull it off, you're golden.

>>35413644
> Focus on a door that leads to 'The Good Kayako' this will probably take a lot of work, but if you pull it off, you're golden.

Try focusing on something good. Something pure. something with a connection to The Good Kayako

>>35413770
>>35413776
>>35413781
So we're going the bold route. Then make sure we stick to it. There's no room for fear.

>>35413644
> Focus on a door that leads to 'The Good Kayako' this will probably take a lot of work, but if you pull it off, you're golden.
Go big or go home.

>>35413644
> Focus on a door that leads to 'The Good Kayako' this will probably take a lot of work, but if you pull it off, you're golden.
Let's go all the way guys!

>>35413849
You close your eyes and focus on the image of Kayako. The good one, dressed in that simple floral dress and the sad look on her face. You feel a gap in the wall and your fingers brush over a door handle. You slide open the door and step out of the cell.

Then you open your eyes.

> Roll 3d6

Rolled 2, 2, 5 = 9 (3d6)

>>35413911
BEHOLD

Rolled 5, 3, 2 = 10 (3d6)

>>35413911

Rolled 6, 2, 4 = 12 (3d6)

>>35413911
Yu mo gwai gwaai fai di zao
Yu mo gwai gwaai fai di zao
Yu mo gwai gwaai fai di zao

Rolled 6, 3, 4 = 13 (3d6)

>>35413911
Time to cry

Rolled 4, 1, 2 = 7 (3d6)

>>35413911

>>35413959
Well, the good news is that you opened to a room that has a woman that's chained to the floor. Shackles around her wrists and a collar, all of them chained to the floor, and a web of chains laid onto of it. There are also hanafuda tags, white ones with red stitching, tied to the tags. Kayako is underneath all that mess.

Sadly, she's not alone. She's got a guard.

You remember the others talking about Daisuke's first ghost. A 'karaoke ghost' if you recall correctly. A creature with AV plugs for teeth, speakers for eyes, and microphones for fingers, cables making up their hands, and all of it dripping with black slime and pressed into a school uniform.

That's a very accurate description of what you're looking at.

However, it's looking off to the side. Now, it SHOULD be able to see you, but it isn't reacting.

It doesn't have any eyes! Well...you think.

> Tackle it before it realizes you're here.
> Trying to sneak past it and free Kayako.
> Use your own power to banish the Karaoke Ghost. (This is VERY risky, you only have so much and you will probably need it for later.)
> Ask KM for help banishing her. (You're not stupid, you know that relying on KM's juice too much is an obvious flag for trouble...but it's a better bet and it won't drain you.)

>>35413644
>Try to find good Kayako
Also, maybe NOT listen to the arrogant voice in our head, cause... Well, she took our body ONCE

>>35414172
All of these seem justifiably risky options.

If there were an
>Other
Option, I'd wonder if we couldn't attempt to create a rune that would create silence in the room.

> Trying to sneak past it and free Kayako.
Fighting it would waste effort, and we need to save our power and KM for something big.

>>35414172
>Use your own power to banish the Karaoke Ghost. (This is VERY risky, you only have so much and you will probably need it for later.)

Conserve KM Points!

>>35414172
> Trying to sneak past it and free Kayako.

>>35414172
> Ask KM for help banishing her. (You're not stupid, you know that relying on KM's juice too much is an obvious flag for trouble...but it's a better bet and it won't drain you.)
We're going to need our own juice when we fight KM for control.

>>35414172
> Use your own power to banish the Karaoke Ghost. (This is VERY risky, you only have so much and you will probably need it for later.)
Go BIG people!

I wonder what "banished" means in this case. It's not like it can shift into any other dimension outside of the Containment unit. This place is itself a place where ghosts are banished.

> Ask KM for help banishing her. (You're not stupid, you know that relying on KM's juice too much is an obvious flag for trouble...but it's a better bet and it won't drain you.)

>>35414172
Okay, clarification for what the fuck "banishing" means in this context?

>>35414418
>Okay, clarification for what the fuck "banishing" means in this context?

Well, as far as Sachiko is concerned it means either sealing them in a cell like she was just in, or punting them to the other side of the unit.

KM's definition might be something else.

>>35414172
>> Ask KM for help banishing her. (You're not stupid, you know that relying on KM's juice too much is an obvious flag for trouble...but it's a better bet and it won't drain you.)
Let's see what, if anything gets asked of us

>>35414172
>tackle it
Lucharaaaaaaan!

>>35414518
>>35414325
>>35414302

*Think you can take her out?* You silently ask KM.

She scoffs. *Trash. Relax, child. Just grab her and keep her quiet. I'll do the rest. I'll need to borrow your tongue and voice.*

> Tackle the Karaoke Ghost.
> Grab her from behind and cover her mouth.
> Creep up on her and grab her before she knows what's happening.
> Other

>>35414640
> Creep up on her and grab her before she knows what's happening.

>>35414640
> Other
It's a kareoke machine right?

Take a look at it, does it have a mouth? any speakers? See if we can't make a quick observation if there are wires we could try to rip out to prevent her from blaring alarms on her sound system.

The probably chose this particular ghost because it's a kareoke machine.

>>35414640
>I'll need to borrow your tongue and voice
Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!
Next she'll ask to borrow our ears, then our eyes, then our hands and feet. Little by little, she will take over.
>other
"Well, if she's trash for you, she won't be much for me either."
>tackle ghost
>refuse help

>>35414640
>> Creep up on her and grab her before she knows what's happening

>>35414640
>> Tackle the Karaoke Ghost.
I hope her helping isn't gonna bite us in the ass

>>35414640
>Look up how it was dealt with the first time
>See this quest has been running for almost a year.
>Salute.

It's not the mouth I'm worried about, though. It's the arms. But if the mouth is covered, it can't call the other two (if they're around).

>Grab her from behind and cover her mouth.

>>35414906
Yeah, good times. I remember when we almost got deep fried in oil by living plateware.

Also glad Ghostmaster came back after his hiatus.

>>35414698
>>35414798
You slowly walk across the floor, stepping over the chains, trying your hardest to not make any noise.

You feel your lips and tongue moving slowly and silently as KM makes you say long forgotten words and secrets.

> Roll 1d20

Rolled 11 (1d20)

>>35415015

>>35414941
I'm not really a fan of this thread in particular though, since we already know the outcome, it seems like the only thing left for us to do is find ways to make that victory actually be a lot more Pyrrhic than originally indicated.

Not really a lot of incentive to participate if all we can do is make things retroactively worse.

Rolled 20 (1d20)

>>35415015

Rolled 12 (1d20)

>>35415015

>>35415033
But then there is always the chance we could find some key bit of info. And who says we can't make things better if we can make them worse?

>>35415057
I love you anon

>>35415110
General not being on the same wavelength as the QM, as well as ghost rolls?

>>35415057
You walk up right to the Karaoke ghost, and gently place your hand on her shoulder.

She starts and spins around, but it's too late. She's already...unravelling.

The karaoke ghost gasps and makes a harsh feedback sound, but it's too late. The process is swift. It's like someone ripping apart a spiderweb or dribbling water onto cotton candy.

You know that this isn't banishing. This is something more...something forbidden.

You watch as the karaoke ghost unravels, dissolves, and...falls apart.

This ghost has not been banished, or sealed, or sent away. She's been utterly destroyed.

*What. What did you just do?* You ask KM.

*What I had to.* She says. *She was nothing anyway, wasted life, wasted death. Punishment given is punishment earned. You give people like that mercy, and they'll abuse it. Over and over again. They're greedy and filthy. You saw she was covered in that black slime. Good souls don't have that. Souls that can be redeemed don't have that.*

*So, you sent her to Oblivion?* You ask.

*As is our duty. Remember it, remember it well.* KM says. *Remember it, because it is our right.*

Ah. KM screwed up. She did a rule of three. You now can remember the Oblivion Rite. Everything about it that KM knows. It's a LOT. It's a very complicated rite, and VERY forbidden, so it'll take some time for your mind to figure it out...but KM is no fool...she knows the Rite...and she knows other things, like it's inversion, and wards.

You turn to Kayako and start to free her. Thankfully, the chains and tag are tough for a ghost to break free from, but the spiritual projection of a human, and a priestess at that, is another story entirely.

She makes a soft croaking sounds.

"Don't worry." You say. "We're here to get you out. Your mother is here too."

Kayako's eyes go wide and you see her begin to try and struggle to help free herself. There's a fleck of hope in her eyes.

(Cont)

>>35415347
oh...oh shiiiiiit we good now!

>>35415347
>Oblivion

Is this like Hell? Or was the soul destroyed completely?

>>35415408
I'd imagine there's nothing left to stand before St. Pete.

>>35415347
You help Kayako to her feet. She's shaky and instead, but she looks capable of walking on her own.

"Okay, now let's get out of here!" You say. "We've gotta find the kid, and then book it."

Kayako shakes her head and points in a different direction. She makes a croaking sound and then grabs your arm and writes on it with her finger.

-SHOW. IMPORTANT.-

*We don't have TIME for this Child. You both will listen to me, and we will leave!* KM snaps. Particularly she snaps using YOUR voice.

"Hey!" You say. "I think we should check this out! If she says it's important, it's important!"

*She's too close to her other self! It's influencing her thoughts. It may be something, but it will ALSO be a trap. Also, I am MAKING a decision, seeing as I am the Senior Priestess here. You WILL be following me!*

"I follow whomever I LIKE!"

*You should learn to be grateful...*

You feel...funny

> Roll 1d20

Rolled 11 (1d20)

>>35415487
Let's learn to be grateful!

Rolled 18 (1d20)

>>35415487

Rolled 2 (1d20)

>>35415487
DOOM

>>35415347
Quicker, easier, more seductive.
It is your destiny.

>>35415408
I don't think souls can be destroyed. But ghosts can. I take it as a figure of speech.
Ghosts dissapate, their PKE an anything detectable in this world vanishes, and their souls pass on.

Perhaps she simply means she disintegrated her PKE form

>>35415481
Biblically souls are immortal, and I take it to be the case in the GB world. Afterall we did free all those souls from Shandor when we also sent him to "oblivion" with total protonic reversal. Furthermore it was likely this ghost will go into the shinto afterlife.

If anything ties you to this world, be it a physical body or an ethereal form, you haven't really passed on no?

>>35415535
>Furthermore it was likely this ghost will go into the shinto afterlife.
That is, when the Containment unit breaks.

Rolled 7 (1d20)

>>35415487

>>35415535
So where are the Peoplebusters? In the afterlife?

>>35415535
Maybe there is a soul, maybe there isn't. But her spirit was destroyed.

>>35415581
Like I said, ghosts (at least those who were once human) exist because their souls haven't passed on.

"Underworld", "netherworld", "limbo", it's got many names but it very much isn't the afterlife. It's a dimension just like the containment universe where all these ghosts and specters gather in their own little world.

There also likely isn't just one but several different dimensions linked together, according to Ray it's part of an "infinite combination of different possible universes" such as the Gozerian dimension (what was summarily destroyed by Central in a great Protonic Reversal).

>>35415665
Thanks for explaining it to me. I don't know much about Ghostbusters lore.

>>35415621
And so where the little blips of light we freed. Gone without a trace. Even Death itself works similarly, making all the excess PKE during the Ghostsmahser incident disappear.

I guess maybe even ghosts can't be entirely sure there is an afterlife, but at least all our encounters with various gods and demons and death personified are a strong indicator.

>>35415704
Some of it is just theory on my part, but the statement from Ray is directly quoted from the game.

>>35415729
One obvious downside of her methodology is that it doesn't help the world. You're just shoving trash in a convenient closet, as people continue to litter.

Even if we do actually destroy souls, the omnipotent powers that be would probably just reform it for judgement day just as easily as it would resurrect a body.

>>35415797
I dunno, if she's figured out how to artificially replicate the same process that happens when ghosts pass on, it just might what the Ghostbusters have been looking for ages as a solution to the containment problem.

>>35416040
That kind of stuff would probably build up. What the Ghostbusters need is a way to 'redeem' PKE, as well as lowering the amount of bullshit going on in the world so that there is less negative PKE around.

>>35415797
Yup. Forbidden is forbidden for a reason, when it comes to magic.

>>35416040
From the fact that it's a Forbidden Rite, it probably does destroy the soul. It bypasses the kami process of being judged and goes straight to oblivion. That would be enough to make it Forbidden.

>>35416118
It would be Forbidden if it circumvented the process that the gods put in place.
From what she said, it sounds like this was complete forced destruction of the soul.

>>35415509
You felt something brush across your mind but you force your way past it.

"Show us." You tell Kayako.

Kayako nods and takes your hand. Then she casually walks through a wall, and takes you with it.

It is not a pleasant feeling, like bathing in metal shavings and wood chips. It doesn't hurt, but it's not an experience you'd wish upon anyone else, apart from the idiots.

You can hear KM muttering in the back of your mind. You ignore her.

Kayako takes you down a series of halls, and then she stops.

You hear it too, it's the sounds of multiple pairs of feet, running, possibly coming towards your direction.

> Let Kayako hide you within the walls.
> Create a room and a door like you did with the cell.
> Let KM hide you
> Other

>>35416108
>That kind of stuff would probably build up
Then it wouldn't really be "passing on" but the same mistake the Ghostmashers did. All it would be doing is pulverizing the PKE and scattering it, which isn't good at all.

>>35416151
Whatever "oblivion" is, if such a place even exists.

If the Kami want to restore a soul for judgement, I have no doubts they could. But I agree, the fact that it is "forbidden" is very forboding.

>>35416193
Not the soul persay, but more the ghost I'd think.
Just like you can destroy a body, but not the soul.

>>35416213
> Create a room and a door like you did with the cell.
Practice makes perfect

>>35416213
>Let Kayako hide you within the walls.
They might notice a new door?

>>35416213
>create a room with a door
Practice OUR powers, not Powertrip McBitch's.

>>35416213
> Let Kayako hide you within the walls.
It's the safe option but I'd rather go with it.

>>35416213
>> Let Kayako hide you within the walls.
Gotta save up on our power.

>>35416213
>Create a room and a door like you did with the cell.
Fuck being safe, I'm not even sure if this costs anything.

>>35416316
>>35416378
>>35416436

"Hide us!" You say grabbing Kayako.

She pushes herself, and you against the wall, and you get to jump back into the metal and wood filled bathtub again.

> Roll 1d8

>>35416213
> Let Kayako hide you within the walls.
She knows this place better than us.

Rolled 2 (1d8)

>>35416504

Rolled 6 (1d8)

>>35416504
Interesting.

Rolled 1 (1d8)

>>35416504
Official

Rolled 3 (1d8)

>>35416504

>>35416607
Doh, could'ved used that 3.

>>35416582
People thunder past your position and there's chatter, but you can't make out much. There's just a lot of mention of 'the enemy' and 'payback' but nothing that says 'escape.'

They leave and you both come out. There's no one around.

"Something must have their attention." You say.

Kayako pulls your arm and you follow. She leads you to a large room. It's a combination of an audience hall and a shrine.

A shrine to Oiwa.

(cont)

>>35416976
Huh, looks like Sachiko wasn't there long at all until Daisuke screwed up.

>>35417005
Time is a weird thing in another dimension. Also, rememberthe window we had with P-COC is similar to what we had.

>>35416976
There's scrolls hanging down with portraits of her and her legend. Also there are small depictions of Sadako, Kayako, and Mitsuko.

"Why do all of the Aspects have -ko in their name?" You ask, idly.

Kayako shrugs. Then she points at one scroll, rips it off the wall where it is hanging, and hands it to you.

It's of a girl, her face is obscured, like all the other aspects. She's holding a cell phone in one hand and a handful of candy in the other.

Your head swims and you Know who this is. "Mimiko." You say. "There's a fourth."

Kayako nods.

"She's a lesser aspect." A calm voice says. "The least of them...I suppose that's why the Kitsune captured her at the start of this. Easier to keep, easier to control."

You look around. "Who's there?" You ask.

*Idiot! Run! RUN!*

"I am She." A voice says from the front of the room. Coming from the empty throne that sits before a statue of a woman with a beautiful, and also hideous, face.

There's a flash of red light, and a woman in a white kimono is sitting on the throne. She has a fan held up to her face, covering half of it.

"No." You say shaking your head. "Oh no no no. You can't be in here!"

Oiwa smiles. "I'm already 'in here,' slav...no...priestess. Heh, you avoided the shackle. Interesting." She says. "You have the psychic, and my distant niece. Not to mention the Sin Eater." She nods at a shaking Kayako. "They are part of me. So...part of me, is in here."

You swallow.

"What...what happens now?" You ask.

Oiwa shrugs. "That all depends on you three...pardon...four."

A croaking sound, louder this time, and another Kayako walks out from behind a pillar in the room. This one has hair covering her face, a blood splattered dress, and a look of rage in her eyes.

"Stay." Oiwa says to the Grudge. "We need to have everyone here."

(cont)

>>35417232
>Oiwa smiles.
Ohhhh shit.

>>35417232
She gestures and you briefly experience the feeling of being GRIPPED, gently examined like a doll or a miniature, then something Horible slides inside you, and you hear KM shriek for an instant, then it slides out, taking KM's presence with her.

Your vision returns and you feel tears dripping down your face, and blood seeping out from your nose. You know that's what happening to you back in reality.

"Now." Oiwa says. "We are all here."

KM looks at Oiwa with a look of loathing. It's a look unique to people who are used to being in power, suddenly discovering that they're now powerless.

"Priestess...the LIVING one..." Oiwa says. "You know my tale. Yes?"

"Yes." You say.

"I do not abide liars, hypocrites, or those who discard others when their use is over." Oiwa says. "I also loathe those who spit upon tradition, who look at the old ways and wipe them away for the new. To people who have no respect.

"I will choose which of those groups I rid Japan of. One the last night of the Bloody Moons."

"Do you wish me to make an argument?" You ask.

"No." Oiwa says. "I am already entertaining two different arguments. I say this, because you priestesses...both of you...have each fallen upon a different part of my wrath."

(cont)

Somewhere far in the past, I bet someone else was complaining about how their tradition was being overturned for what Oiwa passes for her traditions.

>>35417435
But tradition is all about lying, hypocrisy, and disregarding others.

>>35417435

"So...as this is my castle, and my part of this dead kingdom. I judge you both." Oiwa says.

KM bristles at that. You get the feeling that she's not exactly the one used to being on the 'judged' side of things.

"I will allow you to admit your guilt, and beg for mercy." Oiwa smiles and waggles her fan. "Otherwise I will find you guilty on my own."

> Admit to being a hypocrite
> Admit to turning your back on the old ways
> Admit to BOTH
> Stay silent
> Other

>>35417435
>"I also loathe those who spit upon tradition, who look at the old ways and wipe them away for the new. To people who have no respect.

Sounds familiar. Maybe we should've let Kuzu off Daisuke's grannies after all.

>>35417493
Probably. Also the last bit about how disrespecting tradition is bad seems kind of weird considering the rest of the quest. But then again, none of this adds up really.

>>35417501
>Stay silent
We are guilty of neither, thank you very much.

>>35417435
>who look at the old ways and wipe them away for the new.
Discarding what doesn't work and taking what does work, that's Japanese thinking from the Kamakura, Sengoku, and Meiji Periods.
We need some OLD personalities to come bitchslap some good old fashioned Japanese sense into her.

>>35417501
>>Other
"I admit to following the Meiji Imperial Edict of throwing away what is bad, and taking what is good."

>>35417536
We obviously are. But I don't really care enough to fucking read through the whole fucking quest to cite examples.

This is obnoxious.

>>35417501
>Admit to BOTH

As a young Autobot once said, "I have nothing BUT contempt for this court!"

>>35417562
But that would be a contributor to best end.

There aren't that many Saichiko missions to look back at anyway. But in any event, no time to reread them before this vote passes.

>>35417501
>>35417542
This could backfire horribly, or it could save us. Fuck it, go big or go home!
>"I admit to following the Meiji Imperial Edict of throwing away what is bad, and taking what is good."

>>35417575
And then he got fed to the Sharkticons, so I really don't think we should be following his example here.

>>35417575
We're probably going to have to back shit up if we want.

When playing as Sachiko we were solidly mediocre, though I guess doing that thing with Kali could count as disregarding traditions.

Also maybe even letting Kali and the old guy stick around counts as disregarding tradition as well.

As for hypocrisy, maybe the stuff with KM counts? I don't know even know.

>>35417591
This.

>>35417581
>>35417622
Not sure if it's relevant know she admits to fiating some of her runes and spells, powering them by personal belief rather than reason or necessarily tradition.
>"How did that spell of yours work"
>"Same way your lasers and science work because you believe they work."
that argument perturbs me

>>35417501
>"I admit to following the Meiji Imperial Edict of throwing away what is bad, and taking what is good."
Fuck it, let's do this

I should clarify as I'm obviously not getting the message across.

It's the kind of mentality that throws away people in exchange for a machine. It's progress that's for the sake of progress. It's the endless march of 'NEW and IMPROVED' leaving a heap of other things left in her wake.

Oiwa's life and her story was destroyed because of this mentality.

Who cares what the ORIGINAL tale was, let's spice up the new one with making Oiwa even MORE gross. Or lets make her not ENTIRELY in the wrong. Or lets change it again, so as to promote someone else's story!

Or 'Let's not live with the idea that there are spirits, and the dead should be respected. Instead, let's take all of that stuff and seal it within Oiwa's soul' Who cares about the people we hurt along the way, who cares about the insults we heap upon those who came before, who care what other people did or think? PROGRESS is sacred! PROGRESS is good!

That's the mentality Oiwa despises.

>>35417581
Best end is bullshit nonsense. This is completely out of nowhere, and we're going to screw up by trying to be "cool" when we're apparently supposed to treat the whole quest as if we're studying for an exam.

>>35417658
When you have an incredibly indepth and thought out quest like GBJ, that tends to happen.

>>35417605
He was going to get fed to them anyway. This is a kangaroo court. All that's missing is raining ping pong balls.

>>35417647
Well then I'm not sure if that's accurate at all. Even though Sachiko sometimes chafes under the old ways, she at least TRIES to stay true to them.

Even the ghostbusters she works with don't -always- zap and forget. Just... usually do that.

Hypocrisy is still kind of subjective but I guess it might apply possibly?

>>35417647
I don't think we're espousing that mentality, though. We're suggesting careful and tempered progress, not the "fuck it let's go nuts" version. The Emperor is not one to make hasty decisions on the nature of what is good.

>>35417707
Yeah, everyone on Earth is guilty of hypocrisy and lying at some point.

The question is about what and with what consequences.

>>35417501
I can't think of a time when Sachiko has ever been a serious hypocrite or thrown away the old for NEW AND IMPROVED.

If anything, she tries to preserve the old ways and refuses to use them as cheap tricks or as a costume. Like with the vampire hunter deal. She refused to drag the old ways through the mud.

>>35417647
>Or lets make her not ENTIRELY in the wrong.
She doesn't like that either huh. That throws a wrench in the whole "saving face" thing we're supposed to do.

If anything it's damn near impossible to keep any original tale the way it is for long, no matter how any of us feel. Change is inevitable, it's the only constant in the universe.

"It is the doom of men that they forget."

Practically none of our tales are the same as they were hundreds or thousands of years ago. Even works that we hold sacred such as the bible has a long history of change.

>>35417501
>admit to both
>other
The world is changing, Lady Oiwa. To stop is to try to hold the sun still. Even you cannot do that. You say you have already judged me, yet you were also judged, also wronged. This is the tradition you wish to uphold?

>>35417694
Well yes, but if he had actually played ball with them he might have still been on the stand when the Dinobots showed up instead of driving for his life in a shark pit. I think we're pretty clearly trying to play for time here, not actually get declared innocent or what have you.

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420 KB JPG

>>35417677
Still. It's gotten to the point where the expectations are completely divorced from the average level of player involvement. We're on such different wavelengths by now that any success is even more random than the dice.

Like >>35417758 may SOUND good, but it also is in no way appropriate to what the QM is trying to have Oiwa convey.

>>35417758
And no doubt thats the exact phrase she will use to condemn us.

From her wording, it seems, yes, that's the tradition she wishes to uphold.

The problem is there are multiple Oiwa's just as there are aspects of her, the one who asked us to "save her face" and this one who would rather keep it the way it was.

>>35417647
Is this all a big metaphor for the moral argument that one faggot always incites? Cause I kind of feel like it might be.

>>35417791
I don't know, it might be the same Oiwa, it's just that we're not understanding what she's saying, or what response ghost master is looking for.

>>35417758
Yeah, that's no good.
Sorry, but that's probably even worse than the "It was an Imperial Edict, I was just following orders" write-in.

>>35417807
No, this goes well back before that episode and even the hiatus.

It's like, one of the main plot points in this whole quest.

>>35417807
That was about moral absolutism, completely different.

Probably going to be brought up again though. Also I'll note that Sachiko conveniently forgo to convey any of this information last thread.

>>35417758
This is fucking dumb and you should feel bad for purposing it. Why would we shit talk Oiwa too her fucking face on her home turf.

>>35417824
I guess I missed something than, or I'm just super fucking thick.

>>35417501
Unless Ghost Master is going to retroactively make the Sachiko we met be like an illusion or something, which is unfortunately possible with this level of nonsense, I'm pretty sure linear time means Sachiko is effectively invincible. So fuck it, let's just stay silent so Oiwa can tell us the fucking answer.

>>35417834
Nah, I've come to finally realize it's just too much effort. Won't see it from me at least.

>>35417835
Because for all we know, she needs us to incriminate ourselves, because fuck if I can recall any specific examples of Sachiko being more of a hypocrite than any other human, but I also don't know what the QM is defining as hypocrisy.

>>35417971
Bah this whole situation seems to be one big circular path that just leads right back to us getting fucked

>>35417971
Or rather Oiwa could feasible twist anything we say as proof of hypocrisy.

Hmm, in sticing to the 'Bold moves' objective, what would be the boldest move we could do. . .

>>35417787
Yeah, my only issue with this quest is that the QM might be expecting more of us than we can reasonably deliver. Sure, arming the Zone was a genius move, but we aren't able to do that on a regular basis, and I feel like we're not really getting a lot of what he's planning and getting screwed a bit because of it.

>>35418002
This. This whole quest recently has felt like that. Even if we get something that looks like a break it twists around to us getting fucked.
Really kills my drive to participate.

>>35418002
That's why this whole thread is irritating. We already KNOW Sachiko won, so the only point of this thread is to find out, through our actions, that no, she actually lost.

I mean do you guys want to look through
>https://archive.moe/tg/search/text/Sachiko/username/GhostMaster/
Which doesn't even cover all the posts in which Sachiko is present and yet not mentioned by name, in order to construct a proper argument?

Because that seems to be what GhostMaster is looking for.

>>35418002
So your average day for the Ghostbusters then. Funny how that still isn't easy for us.

>>35418031
>arming the Zone was a genius move
>genius
More like me and some others proposing a fetish for an army of proton-pack wielding soldiers battling it with undead, ghosts, and wizards, and surprisingly striking it lucky at the right time.

>>35418068
Not me. I love it.

Any ghostbuster would agree, when the chips are down that's when Ghostbusters shine like a star.

>>35418088
Except that hasn't been the case at all. We haven't been shining, we've been barely squeaking by and then just getting in deeper.

>>35418068
Then the difficulty level is obviously not for you.
If you can't handle it, then you shouldn't participate.

>>35418088
Well alright, if you're evidently the kind of player GhostMaster is looking for, what do you think we should do.

And please don't say you posted >>35417758 or >>35417542
Because if you did, then we have a major problem.

>>35418088
Even the original Ghostbusters had time to do shit between getting fucked. There was downtime between getting arrested and fighting Gozer.

>>35418081
You know, there is a suptg archive. The tags include whenever Saichiko is there, normally.

Anyway, the meta has gone on long enough.

>>35417501
> Admit to turning your back on the old ways
I vote this.

We HAVE turned our back on some of the old ways, or implicitly supported such. We are guilty of that, but we did it because we believed it was for a good purpose. So at least, we aren't hypocrites because we admit to it.

>>35418116
As the ancients say "It is always darkest just before the dawn". Or something like that.

>>35418031
>>35418116

Ghost being a a constant source of fear that keep our choices on the conservative have kept us from pulling through more often than not. Just look at the first Sachiko quest, we got kinda screwed by playing it by the books but who could blame us? Don't even get me started with counting ghost rolls in multiroll requests...

>>35418141
You can't handle it either though.

As evidenced by the fact that no one has any ideas beyond write ins that try to be clever but wind up completely missing the point.

>>35418081
Hear hear!
>>35418088
Accidental genius is still genius. The problem is when it becomes expected.

>>35418141
At least I'm willing to speak up about what my problems with the quest are at the moment, instead of just bending over and accepting whatever dick gets shoved in there.

>>35418173
>As the ancients say "It is always darkest just before the dawn". Or something like that.
Except it's been a constant unrelenting darkest for us. Even the minor motes of light are followed by us getting screwed over and pushes four steps back.

>>35418173
But "turning back on old ways" means something completely different than how we think of it, see >>35417647

I don't recall Sachiko ever being progressive just for the sake of progress. If anything, she's been very grudging and hesitant to change, unless absolutely necessary.

And admitting to something we're not guilty of might be even worse than not admitting to what we are guilty of, as seen by Orochi how a bad first decision can pretty much screw the rest of the quest over.

>>35418182
Yeah, the ghost roll mechanic is one of my biggest issues with the quest. Especially since it takes 2 3s to override a 4 for some reason, which combined with lots of rolls of really small dice inclines me to believe that GhostMaster is intent on making things as unreasonably difficult as possible at nearly every opportunity.

>>35417501
>Admit to being a hypocrite
Sachiko didn't believe in the supernatural at all in the beginning. It's only after the brush with the vampires and Kali that she realized that magic is real, and then re-dedicated herself to Shinto traditions and study.

But that doesn't mean that Sachiko should beg for mercy.

>>35418262
>>35418182
Honestly, you guys, I feel that the effects of a 4 have been completely blown out of proportion when some of them have actually led to benefits to us, such as finding Rei.

>>35418260
Like remember that Oiwa is THE Japanese ghost, who even though was in no way in the wrong in life, is completely irrational and only bent on inflicting her pain on others after dying.

>>35418260
>>35418293
In that case, I think i'll back being silent.

Actually right now I'm reminded of that moment in Animal farm where everyone would just agree with the person who was currently speaking and whos idea was most recent.

>>35418239
You can always leave, and people won't miss you.

>>35418283
Oh, okay. I guess still acting like a Shinto priestess despite not actually having any faith in... anything really, is kind of messed up.

Fuck it, let's go with that.

>>35418328
Maybe you should leave. You're not contributing to this discussion, it's actually be more beneficial.

>>35418334
She has faith though, a lot of it. It's the reason she even goes on.

>>35418328
You're not contributing anything though. You're not providing a proper course of action to end this gridlock, you're just trying to shut down discussion altogether.

>>35418262
You might be closer then you think. Remember originally GM wanted to take any 4 rolled for any reason and apply it in game.
He only changed it after the entire quest told him how stupid that idea was.

>>35417501
> Stay silent

>>35418347
She's been called "faithless" by both Kali and Kayako's mother. Even if she's not a nihilist per say, she didn't actually believe in what she was preaching.

I mean hell, with her dancing, it wasn't really what she felt was right, but just going through the motions of what was expected of her.

I guess that might be seen as hypocritical.

>>35418372
Wait, seriously? And with the old dice field where it stayed forever if you didn't clear it manually? Holy shit that sounds awful!

>>35418283
I really don't think staying silent is what GhostMaster is looking for, so I'm going to back this. I'm just really tired of this.

>>35417501
>Admit to being a hypocrite

>>35418387
>it wasn't really what she felt was right, but just going through the motions of what was expected of her.
But sometimes that's the focal point of a religion too. . .doing what is expected of a man by god, not what he feels should be done as man is fallible.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

>>35418345
>>35418360
I already pointed out that Sachiko IS a hypocrite because of her initial attitudes towards magic and being called "Faithless".

Your's is just a meta discussion about the quest's difficulty level, not about what we actually should be doing right now.

>>35418435
But she wasn't doing it for the gods. She was doing it for all the suckers who actually believed this junk.

That's what Sachiko's thread was really about. It wasn't tradition vs new stuff, it was phoning it in vs living.

>>35418476
>But she wasn't doing it for the gods. She was doing it for all the suckers who actually believed this junk.
Do you have any citation to back this?

I didn't get that impression, but if I missed something I would like to see it.

>>35418452
And I'm agreeing with that because that adds up. You should have said that in the first place though.

>>35418505
All the meta discussion about how this quest is too hard was getting on my nerves, because it was detracting from actually talking through the options, so I wanted to separate meta discussion and actual discussion of our choices.

>>35418421
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/28057330/#p28062267

>>>>28062212
This is your ONE mercy. From now on, dud roll, wrong die, or you're a guy who rolls all the time, doesn't matter. Ghost Roll is a Ghost Roll.

>>35418498
Maybe
>Sachiko stops mid-motion, and goes through the rituals for the people. Clapping loudly, saying prayers, and sending the prayers and hopes for these folks to the heavens.

>That's why Sachiko always tried to get in one dance early. That way she could do one dance for Herself. One dance that isn't ritual or dictated by others.

Kind of indicates that she wasn't really feeling it herself.

I don't know, it's still really subjective. It's possible that Sachiko would consider herself a hypocrite or someone who disregards tradition even if we, the presumably primarily American players, would not.

>>35418543
Meta Discussion does lead into our choices for this directly though. Honestly, it also lets GM know our feelings over this.
It probably isn't the best time for it, but trying to shut it down entirely like an asshole isn't the best way to go about it.

I'm very sorry that this episode isn't going as well as the others. I thought it would be a good way to set up some plot points that would pay off later, and give you some puzzle pieces for the big finale.

Obviously, its failed to do that. Also, the foregone conclusion does remove much of the tension.

I apologize.

Would you just like a clear summary and then call it for the evening? Because it doesn't seem like people want to continue.

>>35418543
We already did talk through the options though, and came up blank. Worse than blank actually, because of those write-ins. I'm still not sure if what you're saying even applies, but I just don't really care anymore.

>>35418543
I don't think difficulty is the best way to phrase it, more like seriousness. We're mostly just here to have fun, but it seems like GhostMaster is expecting all shadowruns all the time and then punishes us for not reading his mind. Also:
>>35418554
I concur, that sounds fucking horrible and I'm glad it changed. If nothing else, it does suggest that GhostMaster is considerate of his player base on occasion.

>>35418590
>Because it doesn't seem like people want to continue.
This is wrong.

I do want to continue the game and wouldn't like this to end abruptly for little reason.

And I can bet several others do as well.

>>35418590
>Also, the foregone conclusion does remove much of the tension.
Yeah that's the opposite of what we're complaining about. We don't think there's no tension, because we're pretty sure there's more than enough room for you to cram in shitloads of failure into. Like fuck, maybe after leaving the ghost zone, Sachiko almost immediately died from spiritual corruption due to a mistake we made. This is what we think you're capable of doing.

>>35418590
A pity the discussion is going towards meta reason and not towards the plot at hand, I myself being guilty of it.

>>35418590
I think a summary would be best, since
>I thought it would be a good way to set up some plot points that would pay off later, and give you some puzzle pieces for the big finale.
Is really the center problem piece here. You've given us a puzzle, but we not only do we not know what it will look like we don't even know how many pieces we have to work with. Apologies if I overstepped a bit earlier, though, I admit I was being kinda confrontational about things.

>>35418651
Capable? maybe. Likely? no.

I do wonder if at times we make this seem harder than it actually is, going off of baseless assumption and unsounded fears.

>>35418590
>>35418651
Sounds about right to me. If you're not intentionally cultivating our paranoia, you're doing one hell of an accidental job of it.

>>35418665
I think it's just that this choice in particular makes seems almost like an encapsulation of everything I don't like about the quest. It's really open-ended and subjective, and the wrong answer seems likely to have dire consequences even when that seems logically unlikely. And even if death isn't on the table, there's still some crucial info that we'll only be able to get if we craft the perfect answer, and the only way to do THAT is to scour the archives of the quest and follow all the clues.

>>35418590
I do want to continue. It's just for awhile it's felt like constant fucking of us no matter what we do and we have no idea how to respond.
Me made one choice that leads to this mythical "golden ending" that you've been dangling over our heads and it feels like you expect us to be doing that constantly.
This, combined with getting no downtime in thread and just a string of events that push us backwards two steps everytime we move ahead one and with being shown that the first choice we make can fuck us over for the entire thread during the Orochi shit means that it's extremely stressful and takes it's toll.

Honestly, I have no idea how to continue, because I feel like it'll go bad no matter what. I honestly have no idea what to do, or where to go and any direction won't feel like a success.

>>35418590
I still want to continue.

Mostly I think the problem is that the players want to play Ghostbusters Japan: The Animated Series while you're running Ghostbusters Japan: The Anime by Urobuchi Gen.
One of the sides has to give.

>>35418707
>THAT is to scour the archives of the quest and follow all the clues.
Or just have a good memory and be here for a while.

The clues might be obvious. . .but they aren't for most.

>>35418708
>Honestly, I have no idea how to continue, because I feel like it'll go bad no matter what. I honestly have no idea what to do, or where to go and any direction won't feel like a success.
And to think we were planning on doing this BOLD

What was that quote about, “Given the same amount of intelligence, timidity will do a thousand times more damage than audacity”

>>35418731
Yeah, that about sums it up I think. Add in the despair from >>35418708
and you've pretty much summed up where I think we are at the moment.

>>35418763
This question kind of stopped that though. It feels like a Catch-22.

>>35418731
I agree with this. I'd really like something between the feel of the movies and the Animated Series.

>>35418708
Yeah I think this is a good point, and it's how I feel too.

Every little tiny mistake completely wrecks us and we have to do something completely insane to fix it, and still only hit a success one time out of a thousand.

I can only recall two things I know of that we've done RIGHT. GB Army and Orochi protecting the Zone. Helping Yurei probably helps, she's such a sweetheart.

>>35418739
Either spill the beans or keep your trap shut you insufferable cuntbag. This is not a competition, you're just as anonymous as the rest of us, there is no prize for keeping your fucking trap shut and acting like a coy jackass. That's the QM's job.

So stop preening over how much more clever you are than the unwashed masses, and tell us what you've uncovered. Or don't bother posting at all.

>>35418590
I'm here to play, man. If people want a summary, they can bugger off and catch up in the archives.

>>35418763
Audacity has gotten us in trouble before as well, you know. And what the hell are you supposed to do when every choice appears to be wrong?

>>35418803
>Every little tiny mistake completely wrecks us and we have to do something completely insane to fix it
Again, I say, are you so SURE of this?

Are we not all possibly vastly overestimating the damage being done?

>>35418809
I did not say I had the answers, I simply said that the clues are there and maybe they are obvious but they are not for me and several others apparently.

>>35418590
Ghostmaster, our collective shadowruns are intensifying.

In regards to wat do, because I can't be arsed to read through the quest again, here is what I suggest: Sachiko should be honest, saying she feels like she hadn't done anything, beyond possibly being a mild hypocrite. She would like to know what else Oiwa feels she has done so she can change her life for the better.

Finally, just what kind of punishment it's Oiwa thinking of, because it should ultimately help those willing to improve the world do so, and prevent those who harm the world and are unwilling to change from effecting the world.

I'm on a phone, so typing this into something cohesive will be difficult, but I can try.

>>35418809
I think you're being a bit of a dick in your wording, but I agree with the sentiment. If you >>35418739
know what's up, say so, don't jerk us around.

>>35418835
Let me once again site Orochi. Saying one thing wrong and suddenly everything is fucked, and we have to do something completely insane to keep from blowing it.

>>35418809
>All of this butthurt

>>35418763
What the fuck would boldness even be in this context? Act like a cunt to someone who is second only to Izanami in darkness? Say something hotblooded that doesn't even make sense in the context of the conversation?

>>35418651
>Like fuck, maybe after leaving the ghost zone, Sachiko almost immediately died from spiritual corruption due to a mistake we made. This is what we think you're capable of doing.

Would you like more warnings when you're going to do actions that would result in negative results, or should there be less danger as a whole?

>>35418673
>You've given us a puzzle, but we not only do we not know what it will look like we don't even know how many pieces we have to work with.

I was planning a recap episode during the 'lock and load' montage. In the future, would you like me to MAKE A NOTE OF IMPORTANT THINGS like that so that everyone knows what is important, or would you like me to end every episode with a summary of key points?

>>35418707
>I think it's just that this choice in particular makes seems almost like an encapsulation of everything I don't like about the quest. It's really open-ended and subjective, and the wrong answer seems likely to have dire consequences even when that seems logically unlikely. And even if death isn't on the table, there's still some crucial info that we'll only be able to get if we craft the perfect answer, and the only way to do THAT is to scour the archives of the quest and follow all the clues.

I apologize. My intention with these choices is, indeed, to throw you guys into the deep end. I think that it makes a better quest when the audience doesn't have a clear idea of the consequences of their actions, and works as best they can with as little information that they can get. It makes the story go to interesting places, and I think a game that's nothing but success is boring. I'd prefer you fail a little, and then succeed later.

>>35418731
>Mostly I think the problem is that the players want to play Ghostbusters Japan: The Animated Series while you're running Ghostbusters Japan: The Anime by Urobuchi Gen.
>One of the sides has to give.

You are absolutely right, and I should be the one to adjust.

>>35418873
Honestly, at this point I just want to have Sachiko say "If you're so dead set on judging me, then judge me you pretentious bitch." and then move on.

>>35418861
Doing insane stuff is our modus operandi though. Shit, we live and breathe doing crazy stunts like tying a slime tether to ourselves to do a leap that would kill most anyone else who didn't have that level of luck, or venturing into the containment unit, or any number of the feats we've pulled off before.

>>35418796
>I'd really like something between the feel of the movies and the Animated Series.
See, I don't.
I don't want a quest set on Very Easy.
The Animated Series was fun, but it was obviously free of consequences, or thinking too hard about the consequences of actions.

And from how GhostMaster has been running this quest, I don't think he ever intended it be that easy from the beginning.

>>35418873
I have no idea, and that's the gods honest truth.

>>35418915
But the problem is we -have- to do these things to have even a chance of surviving, let alone succeeding.

>>35418895
A recap would be nice. And while I do agree that constant success can get boring, constant tension like what you're doing ultimately produces the same result. The audience gets frustrated and exhausted with how we never seem to make any meaningful progress and we're always on the precipice of disaster.

>>35418955
And this is any different than what the ghostbusters typically do how?

>>35418895
Summary of key points sounds good, that way everyone can be on the same page going into the next thread. The actual danger level isn't so bad, Central has certainly faced their share of Eldritch Abominations, but more warnings would definitely be appreciated. As far as your third point, the sentiment is understandable but I think you're seriously overdoing it. We don't want all winning all the time, just some indication that we can in fact do something right.

>>35418895
I can agree with 'fail a little, then succeed later'... if it wasn't 'CONSTANT FEAR OF SAILURE AND ONLY SUCCEED WHEN IT IS ABSOLUTELY LIFE OR DEATH'.

>>35418963
Being on the cusp of an apocalypse it would be odd not to be on the precipice of disaster all the time.

>>35418955
But isn't that a standard staple of the Ghostbusters franchise?
The boys and girls regularly do things that they themselves admit are dangerous, foolhardy, and will quite likely destroy the world.
The only difference is that, because we have an expectation that they will always succeed, while in here we are faced with the real possibility of failure.

>>35418895
I get that you're trying to make things serious, which I applaud, but I think you're really running the risk of Darkness Induced Audience Apathy at this point.

>>35418895
Recaps and summaries would be nice, but I don't want the quest to be "Roll for degrees of success!" I want consequences. I want to know that a 4 is terrifying. I want to feel like I've accomplished something via the MCs, damn it. It's one of the things I've really enjoyed about this quest.

>>35418932
That's why I said somewhere between. Hell, I'd be happy with a quest set at the feel of the movies. But even in the movies the crew had more clues and ideas of what they were doing then we did.

>>35418968
The movie busters didn't have to do anything insane until the very end of the movie when they crossed the streams.

>>35418895
There has to be a middle. Like, I don't want to win all the time either, the danger and doing shit to beat it is what makes this quest fun.
But at the moment it feels like we can never succeed. We have no idea what these hints are, we have trouble picking up on what we need and then when we require it later we have no idea what's going on.

>>35418895
Honestly, assuming you're planning on having the quest end after the Thousand Bloody Nights, it's far FAR too late to either lighten the tone or make things significantly easier.

We've all just got to deal with the current level of danger, darkness, and despair as best we can.

>>35419002
It's not even the real possibility of failure at this point, it almost seems more like the inevitability of it. Maybe this is just me, but I've been getting the vibe that if we aren't perfect Xanatos-level geniuses on every plot point we're going to die horribly come Zero Hour, and that hopelessness isn't fun to play in.

>>35419030
Oh yeah. I'd like to feel like we've accomplished something too.

I wonder what that would ever feel like.

>>35419033
>The movie busters didn't have to do anything insane until the very end of the movie when they crossed the streams.
Try the very beginning when they turned on the packs and risked turning New York into a radioactive parking lot (if they were lucky).

>>35419062
Even then they knew what they were doing and Egon assured them it was safe.

>>35419052
Hey, to be fair we have actually had some major success stories, like the 3 delinquent ghosts... which was sheer luck... or arming the Reject Zone... which was also sheer luck on our part... well, shit.

>>35419052
Well we did free some souls, helped make Kayako's unlife a little less miserable, spared Kali's life and gained her as an ally, prevented Sana from being exploited for sex, there are a lot of things we can be proud of and a lot of things we can say "could have been better".

>>35418895
I personally would simply prefer more warnings, as do two others, I think. Three others seem to prefer if there was simply less danger overall.

I think both a recap episode and end-of-episode summaries are both needed.

>>35419088
Ghostbuster success is almost entirely attributed to luck, with a side dish of balls, and a pinch of brains.

>>35418895
>>35419090
Count me in for more warnings, I don't mind the difficulty but I would at least like to have some vague idea of what I'm doing when I vote for a given choice.

>>35419119
But there were actual plans and ideas being thrown about between heroes who at least sorta knew what they were doing, whereas we're just flailing about blindly and trying to not fuck up too badly when we inevitably do.

>>35419090
I'm fine with no warnings, since I'm pretty sure receiving one would actually increase paranoia, especially if we don't understand the "why" behind it.

>>35419155
Except it would probably include a "why", thus allowing us to make informed decisions instead of throwing darts and praying for a bulls-eye.

>>35419155
To me at least, that's the biggest problem with the quest. Success or failure seems largely divorced from any underlying reasons behind it, which to me at least, makes it hard to even try to plan or research, since it doesn't seem to impact how well we do.

>>35419119
Are you saying we're going to be relying on /tg/ dice? Because that's a concept that might just break me.

But seriously. I expected the GM to see what we have set up, and then line up what possible options we have for winning. Best, Better, and Good ends would depend on how prepared we were/what we got done preparation wise. I honestly feel we're doing not too bad in that regards. We've avoided some terrible traps, and it looks like we have some solid allies, including a blood relation of the Emperor. We know what materials we need to get etc.

I feel like we're one big reveal away from being able to go to Endgame. I don't know where all this despair is coming from, really. Fuckers never played any of the old Sierra games, have you? Or Silent Hill 1? Sometimes, not knowing if everyone is going to make it actually makes the game better.

>>35419229
I feel detached from all the doom and gloom myself.

>>35419229
Because we actually understand how far beyond us Tamamo-no-Mae is? I mean she has only -just now- decided to see us as a threat, and this is just her flexing her muscles.

Any success on our part feels like it would occur completely due to her oversight and not our cleverness.

Alright, first off I'm scrapping tonight. You'll get a summary of what happened and then we'll start up next week with the Ghostbusters being committed, which I PROMISE you will be a breather episodes with jokes, gags, and movie references.

Secondly, from now on I will WARN you about key decisions. There will be decisions that will steer the story, and then there will be decisions that can have negative consequences. You will see them as such.

> KEY DECISION
> A
> B
> C

That way you'll know what's going to happen.

Finally, I'll do an important points recap at the end of every episode, so you know what you'll need to remember.

Does that sound good?

>>35419273
This okay with me. Bummed we ended the game, but glad I can still look forward to it next week.

>>35419229
I'm not worried about everyone making it, I'm worried about ANYONE making it. We've already fucked up pretty big a couple times, plus some of our biggest wins owe more to blind chance than any actual effort on our part. I just don't feel like our input actually matters all that much if we're just gonna get fucked in the end anyway.

>>35419273
I don't know. Kind of just feels going too far in the other direction with all of that.

Like it just reiterates the feeling I have that I'm too stupid to participate, which really makes me feel shitty.

>>35419273
I'm okay with everything except just ending things here and getting a summary.
I feel like we lost a chance for more characterization of Sachiko, and I wanted to know if we interpreted things right.

As for the key decisions thing, I suppose people need the big flashing warning lights.

>>35419273
Works for me! Seriously though, thanks for doing this, we found an issue and you actually resolved it properly and promptly, which puts you miles ahead of plenty of other QMs in my book.

>>35419304
Do not dismiss our successes as nothing.

We might have fucked up big, but we have also won big. The fact that we are still alive and able to act is a BIG success, let alone all the other successes we've had.

I feel that it can balance out in the end.

>>35419321
At least this way we actually get to participate, as opposed to sitting out for fear of fucking up on a level we never even knew existed.

>>35419321
>it just reiterates the feeling I have that I'm too stupid to participate
Other people want the training wheels, especially this guy >>35419339

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>>35419273
I was actually fine with the way things, were, and I'm sure I'll be fine with the way things are going to be. This is your canvas, brah.
Too bad this didn't happen before Daisuke got in the containment unit. I've been wondering if the decision to suit up instead of ASP will have any bearing on how the Gundam statue handles. Like Komari's donut from Little Busters.

>>35419273
One more thing, you guys are in NO way screwed.

You know about the three big assaults, have a schematic of the smaller movements, and know where Oiwa will emerge.

You have the means, and the forces to deal with all three main targets, and you'll still have the people to deal with the miscellaneous threats, base defense, and a bonus objective. (I'll hint to that.)

You've got the Pardon. That's a HUGE asset.

P-COC, you'll find out next episode, is nowhere near as cohesive as you think it is.

Guys...you are winning.

>>35419347
Yeah, but how many of those wins were due to any actual planning or cleverness on our part? We've relied on luck more often than I would like, and it's going to run out eventually.

>>35419391
Wait, we are? Shit, I had no idea! One more reason to be a bit more open about things, I guess, makes it feel like our actions actually matter in the long run.

>>35419273
I'm disappointed we didn't get to play through Sachiko's episode, and I'm also disappointed that this is going easy-mode.

But since that's what the majority wants, I suppose you have to cater to the lowest common denominator.

>>35419367
Yeah, but that really doesn't work for me. Like if anything, we should have had that from the beginning, and had them removed as we became more competent. But as it is now, with what seems to be so close to the end, it's really hard not to interpret it as pity. Which I for one find to be disincentive. I don't want us to limp to the finish line, and have any success be attributed to the QM holding our hands.

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>>35419397
>and it's going to run out eventually.
But it is not this day

>>35419426
I don't really want that though. Like I don't know what the right answer is, but I don't feel like it's that.

Maybe just having the QM say all is not lost with >>35419391 was good enough, without lowering the difficulty.

>>35419444
People wanted the ease of the Animated Series and GhostMaster obliged them by stopping his wild ride.

>>35419444
I think you're confusing pity for mercy, and it's not unreasonable for GhostMaster to show a little of the latter when half the playerbase is this frustrated. The sudden swerve is a little obnoxious, but it's better than leaving people out in the cold wondering just what the fuck is going on.

>>35419391
That's a problem I have with this quest. It is a damn good quest, but it always feels like we're one move from complete ruin and destruction.

You saying 'you are winning' is the first time I've even had any inclination at all that we're not fucked.

>>35419460
Yeah, not today maybe. But the next day, or the next, or the next..? We can't keep this up forever, and I don't want to get saved by Deus ex Machina like the Fellowship was.

>>35419273
Yo, I'm the guy who posted the response everyone hated. I've been quiet partially out of embarrassment and partially because I'm checking this thread on breaks at work, hell of a lot of negativity here.
I can't say I agree with all that talk, but I do like the changes. Honestly, I kind of liked being a little uncertain about what we were doing because that just adds authenticity and I got the feeling that even if we don't manage to save everyone, we wouldn't feel cheated by the ending.
Figuring out what we should probably do to get the best results was fun, an intellectual challenge though I'm obviously no great mind. Like the transition of Daisuje into an extremist, I don't agree wi tg loss of this challenge but I will abide by the majority unless the majority decides to start going full psychopathic murderer.

>>35419508
>it always feels like we're one move from complete ruin and destruction.

That, actually, was exactly kind of feeling that I was aiming for. I guess it's not as enjoyable to others.

>>35419508
I think that's a pretty big overestimation on your part more than any fault on his, we've gotten some hints that we were doing a good job thus far. I will agree that the increased transparency is nice though.

>>35419558
Daisuke was a bit of an extremist to start with.

He accepts that the people who perished in the scandal had to die, and admits that if given the option to intentionally make it happen again, he would.

Justice has little need for a conservative.

>>35419563
It's fine if you're going for a horror/comedy, but GhostBusters always struck me as more of a comedy/horror, if that makes sense.

>>35419568
Yeeeah, see, I WAS thinking that, but then >>35419563

Sorry, GM (that name is adorable by the way), but some people get frustrated by a constant lack of any form or success or accomplishment.

>>35419508
>first time I've even had any inclination at all that we're not fucked.
Really?
That time where we got complete protection for the Zone and the ability to use it as a staging point for our own army didn't have any inkling that we might have a chance?
Or that we've actually stopped a majority of Oiwa's facets?
Or what about when we got the locations of Mae's strike teams?
Or when we identified both as players and in-character that the RX-78 Gundam as well as the 3 major other robots in the Kanto region could be activated by us to use in our fight?

We've had plenty of indications, you just didn't pick up on them.

>>35419563
That kinda of adrenaline rush is nice sometimes, but as a constant feeling it kinda wears on you after a while.

>>35419563
It is to me, I guess I'm just more optimistic than the rest.

How could you call it an impending ominous apocalypse if it wasn't impending and ominous? I would commend you for it.

>>35419601
It has been noted there is a difference in the tone between both the quest and the various series themselves, the movies, the different cartoons, the comics. All of them have a shifting tone that, in my opinion, Ghostmaster has wonderfully blended.

>>35419563
I personally love it. But constant calculation can wear down on some. Plus the fact that some come into this without any or incomplete context, make it a pain for longtime players.

>>35419620
I'm sure it wears down the real ghostbusters too, but they never give up. Why should we?

If we're one of the only ones standing in between life and death of the whole world, then we better pull up our pants and carry on.

>>35419504
>when half the playerbase is this frustrated
It's still "Oh, you can't figure this out? Guess I have to handhold you through it, then".
It's still lowering the bar, which feels insulting when we know that the bar was lowered because we weren't good enough.

>>35419563
It just feels exhausting since there doesn't seem to be any breathers.

Like it's all storm but no calm.

>>35419628
Eh, I'll agree that shifting tone is good when trying to meld the canons but I feel like GM swung the pendulum a bit too far towards 'constant panic' rather than maintaining the balance of the original works.

>>35419660
Yeah that's my feelings exactly. It makes any future success feel even more unearned.

>>35419615
Oh, yeah, the plans that show us exactly how outnumbered and outclassed we are?
The facets of which there always seem to be more of?
The strike teams where we will doubtlessly lose a large number of lives?
I admit I forgot about the GUNDAM fighting. That does give me a little hope for atleast going out in style.

>>35419638
heh, even to some of the old players the first episodes seem so far away and ephemeral but I still fondly look back to them, and ought to read them again one day.

>>35419672
I don't think it has been swung too far, and I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

>>35419397
That's how ghostbusters roll, bitch.

>>35419563
It is to me, but it's a very-acquired taste, because you must deconstruct what's happening in your own brain, paying attention to what doesn't add up.

/tg/ is just paranoid.

>>35419698
>The strike teams where we will doubtlessly lose a large number of lives?
Not our lives at least, Pagans.

That's a win win no matter what happens I'd say

>>35419660
And that's perfectly acceptable, if this many people are having trouble it's a lot more reasonable to cut them in than to say "fuck you, you must be this paranoid to play". This is GhostBusters, not Dwarf Fortress.
>>35419659
Central had downtime, like when Venkman was constantly trying to get into Sigourney Weaver's pants. We haven't had much of that lately.

>>35419721
What does that even mean.

>>35419726
Of course the Ghostbusters IC have plenty of down time.

But us, being the players of the quest, are only interested in the exciting bits. And that's not to say we haven't had any breather episodes too.

What are you trying to say?

>>35419504
We. Are. Winning. We have stumbled and clawed our way through by a mixture of intuitive leaps and doing what we feel is the right thing at the time.

Word of god, We Are WINNING. We know about the assaults, we've taken action against them, and we're prepping our big gamble. At the worst, we're probably getting good end. Maybe not better end, or best end, but we gonna make it little nigga.

But I do think the recaps will help since people seem to feel a bit lost, and didn't even realize that WE ARE WINNING.

>>35419724
...I honestly don't know how to answer that, except with disappointment.

>>35419724
Seriously? We're pragmatic, not psychotic. Pagans dying is not something we should be celebrating, it means we failed to protect them.
>>35419705
Fair enough, I can agree with that. At least we're actually discussing it like civilized people instead of just flinging shit at each other.

>>35419563
I would just like to say I feel like that's what kept me interested in the quest, and that it feels like we actually have earned the good position we're in now. We've been sneaky, lucky, stupid, and above all minimized meta gaming since we rarely know exactly what we're doing anyways. It's really immersed me in the quest.

So, regardless, thank you for that.

>>35419615
Some people don't know how to deal with progression that's not based on loot or stats, apparently.

Anyway, truth is it didn't really matter what option you picked. This choice was a way for you to shape Sachiko's character a bit. I hadn't planned any significance to it. (Which goes to further prove that I've stressed you guys WAY too much, if I can wreck you like that.)

Anyway, KM flips out on Oiwa, and Oiwa spills the beans that KM was planning on destroying Kayako. Just so that she wouldn't have to hide from her anymore, and not have a record of her sin eating past. Not to mention the added annoyance of wanting to take over Sachiko's body.

There's a brawl as Oiwa watches, and Sachiko can either overpower KM or throw her to the Grudge. We'll go with the latter. Kayako and Sachiko make a run for it, and Kayako senses the presence of a human mind.

This is where the story lines meet up.

KM catches up to the group during Daisuke's breathless run, and the girls fight her off as they drag Daisuke to safety.

Sachiko wakes up under Reika's care, and sees the others being loaded into a car, bound for the funny farm.

END EPISODE 38

>>35419698
>Oh, yeah, the plans that show us exactly how outnumbered and outclassed we are?
And by knowing where they are we can prepare our own surprises, such as setting up mass traps, turning dumpsters into giant ghost traps meant to absorb entire armies (original Ghostbusters did that once). We can prepare the terrain before the battle begins.
>The facets of which there always seem to be more of?
We were told how many were powerful enough that they needed to be taken care of before the Bloody Moons, and now Mae is left only with the weakest incarnation.
>The strike teams where we will doubtlessly lose a large number of lives?
Daisuke is perfectly willing and able to accept sacrifices for the greater good.
Just because we lose a lot of people doesn't mean that we lose. Loss of life is the inevitable cost of victory, in the Japanese mind.

>>35419753
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we haven't really had that many breather episodes IC. While I don't want to do a grocery shopping quest or anything boring like that, some work that isn't this level of paranoia-inducing would be nice.
>>35419756
And we only know that because of Word of God, which implies that there have been some serious failures to communicate along the way.

>>35419753
Not really. Breather episodes are important. I'd love episodes where we bust an easy ghost and get to know the guys better.
Or an episode that's all about jokes and references.

It's nice to have threads that build the world and characters without it being "END OF THE WORLD! WHATEVER YOU DO WILL SUCK!"

>>35419638
>>35419672
>>35419726

Beach episode? Beach episode. Then back to the shadow-runs. I'd be okay with recaps, but I don't want ABC choices were we're trying to meta the best ending. I want us to do what we think is RIGHT, and if it turns out that it isn't, then we'll make it so somehow. Probably by crossing the streams.

>>35419768
>it means we failed to protect them.
It isn't something we should celebrate, but that is also an incorrect thought process.

If PAGAN's die in the defense of the world, it is something to be sad about, but they would be necessary collateral damage.

We shouldn't waste them either with recklessness or disuse or making them into some kind of liability.

>>35419809
It's too bad tonight had to end like this, but maybe it's for the best. Do you have an ask.fm or a twitter account? That would let us vent a bit without shitting up the main threads and communicate with you a bit better.

>>35419809
...Yeah I really thought that Oiwa would at minimum curse the fuck out of us for not providing the answer she was looking for.

>>35419849
Yeah, what's the point of having an army to defend the people if the army become more important than the people you try to defend?

>>35419814
>And we only know that because of Word of God
No, we didn't NEED the Word of God to know that.
We had the Word of God given to us because some people couldn't connect the dots and needed to be handheld through the steps leading up to where we are. Because you needed a big, easy to read completion bar telling you how everything fit together.

>>35419814
I'm okay with more communication, but in the form of recaps not making choices easier or more obvious. Maybe some sort of paste-bin keeping track of what we know/have prepared.

I agree the communication could use work, but I like the format of the quest itself.

>>35419809
Little things for the Recap:

1) Sachiko, who will tell you once you get out of the nuthouse, will tell you about Mimiko. Thus, you'll know about her.

2) Syren, in thanks for her freedom to go Beyond, gave Yurei a gift.

Sachiko doesn't know what it was, but she saw the ghost whisper something to Yurei and clasp her hand, and there was a brief spark of white PKE.

3) Kayako...hasn't exactly gone beyond. Sachiko lies and says that she has. In actuality, Kayako can't...not as long as her Grudge still exists, and that will exist as long as Oiwa exists.

So Kayako is now taking the place that her mother used to be. Which means that Sachiko has a special surprise up her sleeve, as Kayako is no slouch when it comes to power.

>>35419849
I'm not suggesting we take a bullet for any of them, but we ought to at least make sure they're as well-prepared as possible instead of using them as disposable meatshields like one of the other posts suggested.

>>35419813
>only Mae
Even though she's a slob and has adolescent taste in passwords, I really feel like you're severely underestimating her. Like she seems perfectly capable of making counter-plans.

>>35419867
I think Oiwa is more pissed off than "evil". So, she has a moral code she follows, and can probably even be merciful/empathetic. But she's also crazy, and very angry.

>>35419885
Better still think like patton.
"No soldier ever won a war by dying for his country. He did it by making the other sorry bastard, die for his country."

You better believe we're going to arm the fuck out of them till their shitting weapons.

>>35419813
>And by knowing where they are we can prepare our own surprises, such as setting up mass traps, turning dumpsters into giant ghost traps meant to absorb entire armies (original Ghostbusters did that once). We can prepare the terrain before the battle begins.
When are we going to have time to do that? That's part of the problem, we don't have time to do that, it's felt like we've been pushed from problem to problem without any chance to do anything in between.

>>35419870
If THIS many people can't connect the dots, that might mean that the map is a little bit too vague. Obscure hints and generalizations can be fun sometimes, but if that's all you ever get it can become really frustrating. Remember, the goal here is to enjoy the quest, and a lot of people weren't enjoying it in a manner that was easily fixable.

>>35419913
The Ghostbusters do a lot of good things in between missions, often based on the finds we get. We would hardly be able to arm any of the Pagan or use our new equipment to trap pseudo-living entities without the new funds given by saving Ikki. The world isn't a bubble that only exist when we see it.

>>35419896
>she seems perfectly capable of making counter-plans.
We've been told she is a genius, and she does make contingency plans, and she learns from mistakes.
But she's also egomaniacal and arrogant as fuck, and MAKES those mistakes in the first place.
Especially of underestimating enemies and not understanding foreigners.

>>35419934
Except we barely ever heard about any of that stuff, it was always a couple of sentences of exposition and then off to the next crisis.

NEXT EPISODE:
(Which I hope to God goes better.)

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 17TH, 3-5PM PST

>>35419954
Again, just because you don't hear it or don't remember it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Hell, at the end of each episode when we do something good they even say "this new information will be of real use to us!"

>>35419934
And yet it is. Because we're only playing what we see, we're only interacting with what we see.
And honestly, those kind of episodes help. It'd be hilarious to see them try and teach the PAGANs to work this shit.
It'd be great to see them set up all the traps and shit, and think up excuses when the cops show up asking what's going on.

Stuff like that helps build the world and relieves some of the tension.

>>35419973
We had that option last time to help Sato or Akira, but we chose to help the nurse character instead.

>>35419959
I do too. Thanks for listening to us complain, though I wish we didn't cut off the session tonight mid-game.

Then again, most long time quests get these bumps. So as long as we're getting them out of the way, we can open more room to grow.

>>35419698
First rule of tactics; know how your enemy will react.
Outnumbered? Yes.
Outgunned? Maybe.
BUT, we have Batman's second best superpower; prep time.
With an hour's warning, we can respond. With a day, we can plan. With a week and the plans of our enemy, we can demolish.

>>35419995
To be a long time quest is of itself a major achievement.

>>35419959
I'm sure it will! Also, I'm gonna float the ask or Twitter idea again, since it seems like a lot of this could have been easily avoided that way.

>>35419989
And then we wouldn't have gotten the Orochi's protection and the Zone would have been much worse off. Having to choose between winning and relaxing isn't much of a choice at all in that kind of environment.

>>35419870
I didn't want that. I was fine when someone actually posted a good response instead of just complaining about complaining.

I hate this condescending bullshit and feel like it was one of the worst ways of handling the situation. It's really going to impact my enjoyment of the quest in the future.

>>35420041
How can you say that following Sato or Akira wouldn't have an equally valuable reward at the end?

>>35419932
A lot of people weren't enjoying the quest because they wanted Easy Mode, and now we've had the difficulty ratcheted down.
To the people that were connecting the dots, this feels like the effort put in is now going to waste if it's going to be easy from now on.

And for some of the people that weren't connecting the dots before, they feel insulted because the bar was visibly lowered, underscoring that any success they get from now on isn't because they figured something out, but because things were artificially dropped in difficulty for them.

>>35419969
But if we don't hear it or remember it, then it might as well not exist from our PoV. The problem here wasn't that we were fucked, it's that we THOUGHT we were fucked.

>>35419882
>1)
Kind of already did, but probably not IC. Don't remember if Sachiko tell the GBs about her premonition.
>2)
Hope it somehow helps her shed the awkward teenage appearance and attain her grown up form. So she can give Akira some good ghost loving. OTP OTP
>3)
So there is hope for one last hug.
>>35419959
So Happy It's Thursday. See you then.

>>35420057
But you weren't fucking connecting the dots. That's why we had like two hours worth of gridlock, because you didn't post shit.

>>35420062
To that I say there are too many negative nancies and fearmongers in this quest and it has finally boiled over