[Meanwhile]

"Damn it..." Tohsaka Rin mutters to herself as her Servant returns to her, clenching her jaw.

She'd gotten too greedy. If they'd just attacked from the get-go instead of proposing that contract...

Well, that was pointless to dwell on.

"Should I send Rider to finish them off?" Her ally asks, as what remained of the fallen Archer was culled from a cogent form, returned to the Grail. "If we don't, they'll just reestablish that territory, and then we're back to square one."

"You, myself, both of them, Einzbern, and the Master of Assassin." Tohsaka murmurs. "Out of them, we know the least about Assassin, but that's also because we have no inkling who the Master could be. Short of the ones we know are Masters, the only other magi are the family heads, which means either one of them summoned a Servant in secret, or there's another foreigner who's competing."

"If we kill them both off, we narrow it down to us, the Einzberns, and Assassin, and I daresay both of us together should be able to defeat the Einzberns." The other woman continues, "But neither of us have a way of finding Assassin if he stays concealed, and unless we plan on killing every magus in this city, which would certainly get the Association involved and hinder us, we don't have a way of being sure we've done away with his Master."

>>34610221
"We can verify the presence of Masters through the burning of Command Seals, though. Acht, an Einzbern homunculus maid, Zouken, an unknown foreigner, those are the possibilities. If it's the latter, we have no way of tracking them unless they set up a workshop. If we go to the Einzbern castle, we wouldn't be able to tell if there's another Master there because Berserker's Master's seals will make ours burn on face. So that means..."

"One of us needs to stop by the Matou household in person to see if there's someone there designated as a Master, right? If the seals start burning, we know for sure the Matou head is the Master of Assassin. If they don't, then we know it's either the Einzberns or a foreigner."

"That'll tell us if we can make Assassin a nonfactor by dealing away with the Matous, as well as tell us if attacking the Einzberns could theoretically mean fighting two Servants instead of one."

"But the issue is that Lancer can't do anything right now, can he? If Rider and I go to the Matou's to check this, we leave you open to an ambush from Assassin. Even with Lancer here, you won't survive as you are now. And if you're sent instead of me, it's the same result, you're an open target if Rider and I aren't here with you. That would also mean sending Rider to kill the ones on the temple is foolish, if Assassin's been watching he'll know our location, and making ourselves unprotected is sure to lead to our deaths."

"But if we just sit here without even verifying information, we'll fall behind, so the only solution is..."

"You, myself, Rider, and Lancer all go to investigate the Matou house. We won't be entering the area itself of course, charging in there without preparation is suicide."

File: ThisIsWhatYou'reGoingToKill.png (655 KB, 960x540)

655 KB PNG

[Meanwhile]

Ilyasveil von Einzbern stood in the forest that was her home, and beside her was her father.

Her father, Emiya Kiritsugu.

She was forced to say goodbye to her mother when the last war began, but it wasn't an eternal goodbye. She knew her mother would always be there with her. That was the nature of the Einzberns, the creations born from the template of Justeaze.

"Mother told me that even if we wouldn't see each other anymore, she will always be by my side. I don't have to be sad, she has been telling me, before going to bed. So Ilya will always be with mother."

That time, that day she and Kiritsugu left, she feared. She feared that she would never see either one of them again.

"...Then daddy will promise you something too. I won't make you wait. Daddy will definitely come back quickly."

But Kiritsugu promised. He promised that he'd come back for her. In that winter forest, he had promised he would return, and then the two of them could stay together and play just as they always had. And so...so she wished.

She wished, she desired above all things one dream.

"I want to see Kiritsugu again."

"I want to play with Kiritsugu again."

"I don't want Kiritsugu to die."

>>34610278

A storybook hero from a child's story told before bed. That was what the man had become to her, and that desire became a certainty. She didn't want to see Kiritsugu again, she would see Kiritsugu again. She was certain of it in her heart.

So of course he would come back.

Of course he did come back.

She had never doubted him, and now he, mother and Ilya were all together again.

He was worried for her, he didn't want her to fight in the Holy Grail War, going as far as to argue against Old Man Acht in her stead. Acht wouldn't listen, of course, he dismissed Kiritsugu's concerns as those of an outsider. Ilya of course knew why Kiritsugu was so averse to the Grail War. She would have to leave him, have to say goodbye just like mother did. Whatever had happened in the last war must have affected him deeply, because whenever Ilya had asked to know, Kiritsugu would look off into the distance, refusing to answer.

Yes, she would have to say goodbye to her father when the war came to a close, but that was why...

...that was why, for now, they would live as best they could.

Even in the middle of a hellish war waged by powers of ages past, they would play as a father and daughter in this forest, just as they always had.

So...don't be sad, Kiritsugu. Ilya won't ever forget you, even after you say goodbye.

===

[And the pastebin if you're new/have missed a part: http://pastebin.com/DjX4gMpg]

>>34610195
>[] Work with Cu to reestablish your territory while you have Nero and Shirou sex one another up to recover their own energy faster. Your priority should be to get back to top condition.
Let's get our strength back.

>>34610195
>[] Work with Cu to reestablish your territory while you have Nero and Shirou sex one another up to recover their own energy faster. Your priority should be to get back to top condition.

You give the order for Cu to start remaking his castle while you support him as best you can. When you give the secondary suggestion to Nero, she reacts...positively, to say the least.

"Very well! Come Praetor, together you and I shall regain the power we deserve through an act the gods themselves shall feel arousal in the face of!"

With that, the ostentatious Saber drags her Master off, though not without him saying anything.

"...you lost me."

===

[Meanwhile]

Four existences stand at the fringe of the Matou property, careful to avoid entering the myriad Bounded Fields of Matou Zouken's workshop.

"You feel that, don't you?"

"Yes, there's no mistaking it. It seems that this was worth checking."

===

To be put simply, even with your best efforts, establishing your territory and restoring your prana takes you the remainder of the day and a decent ways into the night before the castle is back up and your prana stores are taken back to a nearly-full state. The whole time you have a nagging concern in the back of your mind that the enemy could show up at any moment and strike while you're weak, but it ends up all being for nothing.

[] Get some sleep, staying up won't help you in the long run, and this way you can restore that last bit of prana faster.
[] Stay up and talk strategy with the others, decide on your next move.
[] Stay up and work with Cu to restore your rune and curse arrays you had set up.

>>34611406
>[] Stay up and talk strategy with the others, decide on your next move.
We really are a sitting duck now that mostly everyone knows where we are.

>>34611406
>"...you lost me."
This time I can actually say that would lose him.
[] Stay up and work with Cu to restore your rune and curse arrays you had set up.
>Write in
Have him write runes on both Shirou and us as well.

>>34611406
[x] Stay up and talk strategy with the others, decide on your next move.

Preparing mindlessly won't do you any good. You call for a strategy meeting between all of you inside the temple.

There are too many options to consider, but what should you attend to first?

[] Discuss the golden Servant, and what to do regarding him.
[] Discuss the need to form another alliance.
[] Discuss the need to take down one of the other pairs.

===

[Meanwhile]

By the time night had fallen, the Lancer-Rider alliance had regained their strength in turn.

"We can either go after the castle, the Einzberns, or Zouken." Tohsaka stated sharply, both her and her ally utterly serious.

"Zouken's a no without preparation. Storming his workshop, even with our Servants, is beyond dangerous. The Caster certainly has better affinity against him then we do."

"So, the Einzberns, then? Hm, Berserker's certainly dangerous, but we can likely win if we play our cards correctly, especially with both of us. With the Einzberns out, it's us, the castle alliance, and Zouken. We can let the others take out Zouken, and then we and them will be all that's left in the end."3

"-And with Rider and Lancer together, they won't stand a chance. Very well, we'll attack the Einzberns in the morning."

>>34611646
>[] Discuss the golden Servant, and what to do regarding him.
And
>Have Cu write runes on everyone, including Saber

>>34611646
>[] Discuss the golden Servant, and what to do regarding him.
This fucker and his bullshit powers should be top priority.

At your instruction, runes are inscribed upon all of you to make you more combat-ready. With them, you're now at the same level as a certain Fragarach-wielder in terms of combat efficacy, though yours and Shirou's skill in combat is still well below hers or Kuzuki's combat ability. Thus, while you can react in time with Servants thanks to the runes, you're ability to fight them is still low. You can likely fight on even ground with a Caster in close combat, or an Assassin discounting Presence Concealment.

-However, upon a Servant they won't be nearly as long-lasting. Cu is capable of strengthening even himself with his runes, but only temporarily, as a Servant will necessarily run through the prana stored in the rune faster than a human will, and thus while Nero can become stronger through the runes, Cu will have to activate them either during or directly before a battle. In his territory he can activate them from afar, but if you're fighting outside of the castle then he has to be in direct combat to do so.

With that attended to. you begin discussing the golden Servant.

The Noble Phantasms he had, the Anti-Country "nuke" and the golden armor, was nothing short of monstrous, not to mention that his Divinity gave him increased defensive value against Cu. With Nero's aid though, you were able to push him back, however briefly.

[] How can we get around that armor?
[] How can we defeat that nuke?
[] Why did he leave when he did?
[] What could his weaknesses as a Heroic Spirit be?

>>34611901
>>[] How can we get around that armor?
>[] How can we defeat that nuke?
>[] Why did he leave when he did?
>[] What could his weaknesses as a Heroic Spirit be?
Also
>not to mention that his Divinity gave him increased defensive value against Cu.
Really?
I thought it was under B that it increased defence

Why do Runes on Saber not last as long though?

>>34611998
I'm with this, gotta get around that armour.

>>34611998
I'll warn you you won't have time to discuss all of those before the sun comes up, so you'll go in the order you gave until the sun rises, unless you want to reorder.

As for Divinity, as of Apocrypha Vol 4:
>This Divine Spirit aptitude is for when fighting Sun God Class Heroic Spirits with Divinity B rank and lower. High defensive power is shown.

Cu's Lugh's kid with Divinity B, so he fits the bill to get offense nerfed against Karna.

Runes on Saber don't last as long because of her MR. Hers is C rank, but it still weakens the runes. You can ask her to keep her MR in the off switch so it lasts longer, if you like. Keep in mind though that runes don't last for an obscene amount of time, you will need to reinscribe them a couple times a day.

The golden armor, a trump card beyond even that "nuke", and the reason he was able to attend with you so easily.

With your Master's Clairvoyance, you now know how it works. All interference is reduced to one-tenth. It's a conceptual armament that functionally creates its own world, something that could likely ignore the rewriting of reality itself, as it lives in its own.

With that in mind, he seems unbeatable in combat. Even your greatest weapon, Gae Bolg, would likely suffer a drastic reduction in power. Your Anti-Army attack would be reduced from "80" to "8" in terms of power. And Nero's arena, High Thaumaturgy that creates an effect similar but not identical to a Reality Marble. Even with that though...Nero replaces the world with her own, but she doesn't replace Karna's world with her own. Even if the ranks of the different "worlds" they actualized wasn't biased in Karna's favor, she's incapable of infringing on Karna's conceptual space. Her Bounded Field ignores Armor Class, but his armor, strange as it seems, isn't Armor Class.

Everything is one-tenth. Even your runes will fail due to a combination of the armor and his Magic Resistance, as you saw earlier. An infinitely annoying ability.

[] Well then, you just need to hit him with enough damage that it ceases to matter.
[] If you can't kill him, then just don't let him kill you. Maybe by stalling, you can find a hole.
[] The armor must have a loophole. We need to investigate the legends behind it.
[] This is fruitless, let's move to the next topic.

>>34612124
>[] What could his weaknesses as a Heroic Spirit be?
>>[] How can we get around that armor?
>[] How can we defeat that nuke?
Re-order.
Casually ask how Shirou's day went before that though.

>>34612219
>Write in
"I suggest we simply Assassinate the master, the armor as it is seems to be essentially impenetrable by anything we can use."
"If we can manage to find their master, Cu can utilize Gae Bolg to inflict a permanently fatal wound, while escaping with his A rank agility just as easily as he came."
"Finding the master however, will be the harder part."

>>34612224
Do you want me to take this as a "move to next topic" where the next topic is his possible weaknesses as an HS?

>>34612219
>[] The armor must have a loophole. We need to investigate the legends behind it.

>>34612338
No, just use >>34612311
I was attempting to get that in before you posted.

>>34612311
second

You're approaching this from the wrong way, you realize. The Servant isn't alone, it has a weakness in the form of its Master. Should the Master die, the Servant will cease to be.

And what's more, you have a weapon which can inflict a sure kill upon the Master, and the "fastest Servant" on your side. However, that brings up the question of how to find this Master.

[] Scry around town for any magi, make a list of all of them and go from there.
[] Go to the Einzberns and ask for information, maybe they know something.
[] You can't find out the Master for certain, this is better to keep as a reserve plan.

>>34612511
>[] Scry around town for any magi, make a list of all of them and go from there.

>>34612511
>[] Scry around town for any magi, make a list of all of them and go from there.
We can scry Toesucker, then Kuzuki can confirm she's a Tohsaka, then we can eliminate her since by default she's part of the holy grail war

>>34612511
>[] Go to the Einzberns and ask for information, maybe they know something.
This leads nicely into considering an alliance with them, since the Golden Servants master wanted us to kill them.

You tell Cu to start work on scrying, and as an obedient hound does, he obeys. A series of runes are inscribed inside the temple, the Berkano rune included in order to seek out any instances of where magi could be.

-The Matou household
-The Einzbern Household
-The Tohsaka Household

...hm. Outside of these three, there aren't any magi you can track down in the city, though you can't get more detailed information than general vicinity from your current location, unless Cu spends the rest of the night scrying.

This is hardly unexpected, those are the homes of the Three Great Families after all, as you know.

You know the Einzberns are unlikely to posses the Golden Servant, so it's either the Tohsakas or the Matous.

[] You've gotten enough information, investigate one of them in the morning.
[] Head out now to check their residences under the cover of night.
[] Have Cu scry for the rest of the night so you can get past the Bounded Fields and get a look inside their houses.
[] Switch topics to a different matter.

Just a question, how do Cu's runes work?
Can we have several go off at once, or do they all activate separately?

>>34612653
>[] Head out now to check their residences under the cover of night.
Have Cu head to Einzbern, if he spots Tohsaka or any other master that's not a homunculus then Gae Bolg + Run the fuck away.
Meanwhile, Shirou, Kuzuki, Us + Saber will abandon the castle for the time being and retreat to a city building across the river. Cu will scout out ahead of us in time to see if it's servant-free

>>34612654
You can activate multiple ones at a time, however you need to fulfill one of two conditions. Either be in your territory, or be in direct contact with the inscriptions. If you're in your territory you can activate runes that are anywhere else in your territory, if not you need to be right by them.

You can activate multiple ones at a time, however even with the leylines, Cu's MAN/MAGI stat doesn't change; that's the maximum prana his core can handle. Meaning, if you try to make him activate too many runes in one go, he won't be able to handle it and he'll fade. That becomess less risky if you have him use a smaller amount of runes one after the other, because the leylines will refill him between uses and you're not surpassing his max immediate output. When you were defending against the Brahmastra, the power needed to boost Dun Delga to just about equalling it was dangerously close to Cu's max, which meant his Spiritual Core got a lot of strain put on it, which ended up hindering him in the fight.

Let me know if you have any other mechanical questions.

>>34612767
Oh alright. Thanks QM.
Also
>[] Head out now to check their residences under the cover of night.

>>34612717
Do you mean you want Cu to scout first to check if the coast is clear, or go to the Einzberns first and chat with them?

Also, the Shinto area, the one across the river, will take you a while to reach. You probably won't make it before the sun's up.

>>34612837
>Do you mean you want Cu to scout first to check if the coast is clear, or go to the Einzberns first and chat with them?
Scout first, only a preliminary to see if there's any servant presence.
>Also, the Shinto area, the one across the river, will take you a while to reach. You probably won't make it before the sun's up.
Is there another place around the mountain that we can camp instead? So it makes it seem as if we're not there. If so, do that.

Rolled 2 (1d2)

>>34612908
There's Miyama, the part of the city west of the river.

Anyway, unless someone else interjects, rolling between yours and >>34612805, seeing as while you selected the same option you're going about it in completely different ways. 1 for you, 2 for 2805.

You should verify the status of the Tohsaka and Matou house, but who should you bring along with you?

[] Bring everyone
[] Leave Shirou and Nero here
[] Leave Kuzuki here
[] Leave Cu here
[] Other

Furthermore, between the Matou and Tohsaka residences, which one should you check on first? You know little about either, save for their status as the Great Families of Fuyuki.

[] Matou
[] Tohsaka

>>34613017
>Other
Only send Cu, we can't handle combat and it's not like we can't mentally commune with him over huge distances as shown by every other master.
And, only those two?
>-The Einzbern Household

>>34613017
[x] Leave Shirou and Nero here
[x] Tohsaka

>>34613110
Second

You send Cu to the South, to the Einzbern household. Hopefully you can get some answers from going to them.

For a Servant unhindered by having to a lug a flesh Master around, Cu makes it to the forest in little time, weaving through the trees as he nears the Einzbern castle.

-However, as he nears the area, he is brought to a halt by a raucous scream. A roar of utmost insanity. A black knight leaps out of the shadows, wielding a tree as if an oversized club and swinging it towards Cu as he prepares to block or dodge the strike-

"Stop, Berserker."

A winter saint steps out from the shadows, looking to Cu quietly.

"Why are you here?"

As she asks the question, Cu relays back to you so that the two of you can decide how to respond.

[] Kill the girl.
[] Kill her Servant.
[] "I am Servant Caster, I've been sent to discuss the existence of Servant Lancer, namely his Master's desire to see you dead."
[] "Can you make your Servant dematerialize before we talk? I can't have a discussion with him seething at me."

>>34613349
>[] "I am Servant Caster, I've been sent to discuss the existence of Servant Lancer, namely his Master's desire to see you dead."
>Write in
"As a freebie, the identity of Lancer is Karna, the sun of the son god."

"I am Servant Caster, I've been sent to discuss the existence of Servant Lancer, namely his Master's desire to see you dead. As a show of good faith, the identity of Lancer is Karna, son of Surya from Hindu legend." Cu replies sharply, surveying the black knight slightly as he speaks. However, through his eyes instead of your own, you're unable to use your Master's clairvoyance on the black knight.

"Oh? So Lancer wants me dead? Well then that's not a good plan on their part, do you have any suspects for the Master?" The Einzbern homunculus inquires, a slight grin cutting her expression.

You explain how it is likely either the Matous or the Tohsakas who want such a thing.

"...so it's Rin, then." The girl replies. "Zolgen understands what I am, he wouldn't take such an unneeded risk, but Rin's different. The person you're after then is Rin Tohsaka."

As she speaks, the sun peeks over the horizon, casting a pale light onto the forest.

[] Thank her for the information and take your leave.
[] Request that she ally herself with you.
[] You've got what you wanted, now kill her.

>>34613499
>Write in
"There was another servant we didn't managed to take the identity of, it seems either Rin has taken another, or created an alliance."
"Considering the class of your servant, a prolonged alliance between us would most likely not be to either of our benefits, however if you were to face up against Karna, I would like to suggest a form of contact so we may co-ordinate an attack."
"If you wish to be certain of our intentions of such a fight, we are willing to form a Geas."

"There was another servant we didn't managed to take the identity of, it seems either Rin has taken another, or created an alliance." You state through Cu, recalling the presence of an additional Servant prior to the battle with Karna, "Considering the class of your servant, a prolonged alliance between us would most likely not be to either of our benefits, however if-"

You are cut off as you perceive something through Cu's senses.

Two Servants are approaching you.

[] "Well, looks like the fight has arrived already. I'd recommend you go to your castle as you'd only be in danger, leave the fighting to the Servants."
[] Pull Cu out of there, now's not the time to fight Karna again.
[] Send Nero to the forest so she can help in the fight, even if it'll take her a while.

>>34613691
>Write in
"Allies? Enemies?"
"If it is Karna Caster cannot fight him on equal terms, if we are to fight together then the other servant will have to be Caster's responsibility."
Withdraw back a bit, if we can do it quickly try and utilize a spell of concealment on Cu

"Allies? Enemies? If it is Karna Caster cannot fight him on equal terms, if we are to fight together then the other servant will have to be Caster's responsibility." Cu says as he pulls back slightly from where he stands, hastily inscribing and activating a rune of concealment. It's well below an Assassin's Presence Concealment, but it'll obscure your existence slightly until you begin to act.

-And an instant later, a purple-haired woman on a winged horse, and the flame-wreathed Lancer you had fought the previous day break through the trees.

"Berserker...kill."

[] Stay hidden and watch for a moment.
[] Attack Rider. (Specify how)
[] Attack Karna. (Specify how)
[] Pull back to the temple.
[] Blast your enemies with runes. (Specify which one)

===

From a short distance away, able to see the fight that is about to begin, Rin Tohsaka and the Master of Rider watch.

"The other Servant just disappeared, it's likely Caster as I doubt Zouken would have come here." Both Rider and Lancer communicate to their Masters as they lose track of Cu's presence.

Rider's Master withdraws a small ball from her pocket, tossing it up and down idly. "So Caster's here? It doesn't matter, with both of us, our victory's certain."

"Mm, Lancer, keep an eye on us, Rider can handle this for a bit. It wouldn't do for a hidden Caster to kill us while you're fighting."

>>34614064
>[] Attack Rider. (Specify how)
Pole vault through the air and Gae Bolg Rider, retreat behind Berserker afterwards

>>34613382
>sun of the son god

>>34614190
It was a joke anon.

File: YouDidntNoticeUntilNow.png (396 KB, 800x600)

396 KB PNG

Cu leaps up immediately, his target already marked as the Servant Rider. Prana coalesces in his lance as he takes his stance in the air, his concealment fading.

Berserker leaps up, wielding a tree as a weapon as he engages Karna.

-And as the prana coalesces, the ball in the hand of Rider's Master begins to glow. A smirk splits the woman's expression in two as the sphere begins to float of its own accord, the Servant Caster firmly in her line of sight from where she and Rin stand.

"Gae..." The cursed spear begins its fated action. A sure hit, a certain kill, an attack against which there can be no victory.

"Comes later, cuts first."

The sphere of Rider's Master gathers prana every bit as quickly as Gae Bolg, space distorting in two separate areas.

The spear is thrust forward.

A fist is punched forward.

"BOLG!"

"FRAGARACH!"

Two causality-warping weapons are fired off simultaneously.

-And an instant later, Cu and Rider's bodies fall to the ground, dead, while Berserker and Karna continue their fight.

"...Gae Bolg? So that's why my catalyst didn't work, someone already summoned him. Wish I knew that earlier, didn't think Rider would die." Rider's former Master mutters irritatedly.

[] Reload from previous choice
[] Continue from here

Regardless of which option's picked, I need to get going, so we'll call that an end to part 5. Vote in here so we can pick up properly from either here or the last choice next time.

Also, if you're entering a "this is hopeless" stage, don't. There are plenty of ways for you to come out on top in this fight, some better than others. I wish you guys the best of luck.

>>34614337
>[] Reload from previous choice

>>34614337
>magenta hair
>able to beat up rin
>master in the canon only war
>playing with a ball

fuck, how did I not realize sooner

[x] reload

>>34614385
>>34614337
No, sorry, this is really getting into a level of bullshit here.
Cu can go insanely fast, beyond human perception. Rider's master is also a large amount of distance away, beyond the level of "You can attack her" as an obvious choice.
And yet she somehow predicted Cu would fly over the others, Gae Bolg Rider through the heart, instead of an extensive battle beforehand? Sorry, but you're either seriously underestimating Lancer's speed or seriously overestimating Bazette's time to react to things.
Shirou could barely even witness Cu's LAZY strikes, how the hell could Bazette even recognize Cu, flying through the air, full pelt, out of nowhere? Much less recognize him stating his ultimate move, which by the way doesn't build prana, merely freezes it in the air, and then in that time, prepare fragarach, and use it?

>>34614486
gae bolg has charge-up time, it's not like a normal stab. He has to take a stance, charge up, and say the name, and also fragarach activates on its own when the enemy uses their trump card, and activates automatically if its an always-active trump card, so bazett doesn't need to think about it.

>>34614522
>He has to take a stance,
Go ahead and cite something, but even then he's taking it in the middle of the air, most likely while moving at somewhere around 100 meters a second.
>charge up
Can't have been much time or we'd have hit the ground.
>Say the name
Gee, sure is hard to say Gae Bolg fast.

>and also fragarach activates on its own when the enemy uses their trump card
Go ahead and define trump card. In fact, go ahead and cite where it says it activates on it's own too.
The only thing I know is that it's humanely impossible to even recognize servants when they're going full speed, meanwhile someone's trump card, such as Excalibur which has a huge amount of opening signals and prana build up, is quite obvious from the start, which is why it worked against her.
Meanwhile, we performed a sneak attack, while flying through mid-air at some 100 meters per second, which in all honesty isn't even the trumpiest of our cards.

>>34614385
>Also, if you're entering a "this is hopeless" stage, don't.
No, no, it's more of a....how do I put it
>Every single enemy we seem to come across just HAPPENS to have the perfect counter to everything we own, have, or do
Stage.

>>34614385
Can we just restart? I dislike all of this savescumming for every single little fuck up we make.

Even if it is mainly due to >>34614648

>>34614618
>Go ahead and cite something, but even then he's taking it in the middle of the air, most likely while moving at somewhere around 100 meters a second.

how about every time he's used it in canon? Also Fragarach quotes.

>Go ahead and define trump card. In fact, go ahead and cite where it says it activates on it's own too.

dude she uses against Cu's Gae Bolg in Hollow. And Cu knew she would do it and he'd die from it too. If he knew she'd do that going into it, and he had some way of being fast enough, I think he would have done that. she straight up used it against gae bolg in canon

>The only thing I know is that it's humanely impossible to even recognize servants when they're going full speed

bazett's speed is just below servant tier, did you even read hollow?

>which is why it worked against her.

and it definitely didn't work on gae bolg because Cu killed her before she could use it, right?

> which in all honesty isn't even the trumpiest of our cards.

we used our NP

Also some fragarach quotes to help more

>The Noble Phantasm it has seems to be the type that's always on, because Fragarach activated right away.

>Despite being released afterward and no matter how fast the opposing attack is cast, Fragarach always strikes first by changing the flow of time to rewrite events so that it makes it own strike against the enemy before the opposing move was ever made in the course of the world.

>once the attack has begun, the ball glows and begins to be electrically charged. It generates a blade followed by Bazett punching it towards the enemy for for the strike.

>>34614618

Lolwat. Bazett kills Cu with Fragarach when Cu uses Gae Bolg in canon.

>>34614648
Honestly yeah. Looking back I see the Bazett hints and that this was probably in place from the start, but it's still annoying.

>>34614688
Like all the way back? That seems really annoying to do.

>>34614764
>Lolwat. Bazett kills Cu with Fragarach when Cu uses Gae Bolg in canon.
Yes.
When it was used against her.

>>34614734
>bazett's speed is just below servant tier, did you even read hollow?
So, she's lower than E, or at max E.
That's still absurdly pitiful.
>fragarach quotes
First, "opposing move" is very, very vague.
Second, Bazett wasn't even within sight when we were utilizing Gae Bolg, has a situation like that ever occurred in Fate/hollow? Because I seem to remember she deployed right next to her Avenger, rather than lying back in the woods beyond the sight range of Servants.

>>34614868
>When it was used against her.
Which changes what? If anything, that should make this more reasonable, because Bazett's not having to deal with getting stabbed simultaneously to firing Fraga

>That's still absurdly pitiful.
enough to react in time to Cu's Gae Bolg

>First, "opposing move" is very, very vague.

What else could it mean besides "the move fragarach's used in response to"?

>Second, Bazett wasn't even within sight when we were utilizing Gae Bolg, has a situation like that ever occurred in Fate/hollow? Because I seem to remember she deployed right next to her Avenger, rather than lying back in the woods beyond the sight range of Servants.

Did you read QM's post or did you just see Fragarach and decide to bitch?

>From a short distance away, able to see the fight that is about to begin, Rin Tohsaka and the Master of Rider watch.
>short distance away, able to see the fight that is about to begin
>short distance away
>able to see the fight that is about to begin
>able to see the fight that is about to begin
>able to see the fight that is about to begin

Rin even said you could try to kill her while you were hidden

>"Mm, Lancer, keep an eye on us, Rider can handle this for a bit. It wouldn't do for a hidden Caster to kill us while you're fighting."

>>34614868
Way to ignore the "Despite being released afterward and no matter how fast the opposing attack is cast" bit.

>>34614929
>Did you read QM's post or did you just see Fragarach and decide to bitch?
Does "Short distance away" mean that they're viewing it from their servants like we are Cu?
Or does it mean that we can actually see them like Illya? Because, you know, being able to see the masters would have meant we knew it was Bazett after all, and yet we didn't hear heads or tails of the description.
>Rin even said you could try to kill her while you were hidden
Yes, meaning they were expecting an attack from behind or at their flanks, not one aimed at their servants.


>>34614952
But when did she release it?

>>34614987
>Does "Short distance away" mean that they're viewing it from their servants like we are Cu?

Since it says they're nearby enough to see the fight, i took it to mean they're right there like Ilya

> Because, you know, being able to see the masters would have meant we knew it was Bazett after all, and yet we didn't hear heads or tails of the description.

That's meta. Neither cu nor us know who bazett is in-character, and besides that cu was focused on the servants, not the masters.

>Yes, meaning they were expecting an attack from behind or at their flanks, not one aimed at their servants.

No, they just wanted to have their bases covered, they obviously expected rider to be attacked, but when cu used his NP that made fragarach activate

>>34614987

you really didn't read hollow, did you? Go look up how the fragarach/gae bolg thing works, the spear was thrust forward at the same time as the first, but the gae bolg attack was made before the spear was thrust, so while the physical motions ooked simultaneous, fragarach happened "after" but also "before"

>>34614764
>Like all the way back? That seems really annoying to do.
I don't think so really. From where we stand currently nearly every single servant has a direct counter to us, and the ones that don't, have an equally powerful master who can defeat us.

Not to mention, the Caster part of Cu is essentially useless aside from the runes, and as shown in the battle beforehand they do little aside from attract attention to get us killed, as any servant with an A+ Anti-Fortress NP can take down basically everything we spent weeks creating (read, 90% of servants with Anti-Fortress NPs), so all we're left with is Cu's combat potential.

Which as has been shown, is completely pitiful compared to every single other servant we've come across. Aside from Archer, but it's not as if having his life spared did us any favors at all anyway.

So looking at all of this, we're basically going to have to same-scum to victory once we hit the nitty-gritty parts of fighting whichever servant wins this encounter, which will most likely end up in death, multiple times. It just seems troublesome to continue this as it is.

>>34615045
>Since it says they're nearby enough to see the fight, i took it to mean they're right there like Ilya
Which is why we got a description of both of them, an acknowledgement they were there, and what they had on their person from the perspective of Cu.....oh wait.
>and besides that cu was focused on the servants, not the masters.
No reason for him to be, he was concealed and she be surveying the entire field.
>so while the physical motions ooked simultaneous, fragarach happened "after" but also "before"
No, I understand that.
I'm just saying two points here.
1: I don't think she's fast enough to "employ" Fragarach in this situation
2: I don't think she's close enough for any "auto" fragarach to activate.

File: Yugi ARE YOU A TRAPCARD.jpg (136 KB, 800x531)

136 KB JPG

I missed the thread again. Goddamn.

Why do all of the people who actually know the Nasuverse seem to kick in right after the thing that gets us killed/the thread ends happens? It's really weird.

>>34614648
Nah. By rights Karna should have died to a point-blank Gae Bolg. That was just a bad ruling from the QM.

The logic that instant-kill attacks don't work on Karna because "lol10%" was just awful. Because an instant-kill attack like Gae Bolg just increases tenfold if necessary and kills him anyway. Gae Bolg is a causality-bending weapon that starts with the conclusion "enemy is killed" and then fills in enough prana to make it happen. Considering how regular Lancer can use the point-blank Gae Bolg 7 times without needing backup from his master, Caster Cu Chulainn inside fortress + excellent spiritual ground should've murdered Karna because he just automatically blows through ten times the prana and oneshots him anyway. The NP doesn't care about doing 100% hp in damage; it only cares about doing "just enough damage to kill" because "killing" is its conceptual effect.

>>34615112
Fragarach is a conceptual weapon that magically activates "just in time to blow someone's head off before their attack works" and Bazett is pretty fucking superhuman herself. That one is believable.

The bigger question is how Cu Chulainn would not recognize Fragarach since according to legend he used the damn thing himself too.

>>34615552
>Fragarach is a conceptual weapon that magically activates "just in time to blow someone's head off before their attack works" and Bazett is pretty fucking superhuman herself. That one is believable.
I don't question it's effectiveness.
I question how she managed to activate it. Because range HAS to have something to do with it, otherwise she could sit at home and activate Fragarach from her couch half-nude while eating potato chips, because the attack was directed at her servant, and therefore at her.

Alright, alright, lemme weigh in here.

Fragarach does NOT require the threat to be active DIRECTLY against the user. God Hand is always on so Fragarach can always respond to it.

There IS some range limit to it of course, she can't use it willy nilly.

>>34615329
I live in a third world country.

>>34615552

*didn't read thread*

QM had Karna neutralize Gae Bolg? That's bullshit, GB bypasses armor and toughness, that's the whole point of it. Once it's been activated, the only defense against it is destiny interference.

>>34615060
I'll list this as an option when making the new thread later today.

>>34615112
No, Cu on face is going to be more concerned with the things he can detect the presence of on face. The first option was the "get a hold on the situation, look around" option.

Bazett's fast enough, or rather Fragarach's fast enough, we see that a few times in HA. If she's able to see what's going on, then she's within a small enough range. The Answerer will automatically come into effect once a Trump Card has begun, as seen in Hollow with both passive and active NPs.

Is there a limit on Fragarach's range? Of course, but I went as far as to clarify that Rin and Bazett were very close by and watching the fight intently.

>>34615552
>Gae Bolg just increases tenfold

No it doesn't. It only operates off of the HP of the opponent, it doesn't readjust for the state of Karna's reality.

>that starts with the conclusion "enemy is killed"

Nope. It's "enemy is stabbed". "Enemy is killed" is a result of "stab does 100% of HP".

> Considering how regular Lancer can use the point-blank Gae Bolg 7 times without needing backup from his master, Caster Cu Chulainn inside fortress + excellent spiritual ground should've murdered Karna because he just automatically blows through ten times the prana and oneshots him anyway.

Nah, you can use Gae Bolg 9 times in a row without backup, that doesn't mean you can use one big Gae Bolg that does nine times the damage. It's not like Excalibur where damage depends on how much prana you have, it's that if you have enough prana to actualize it, the mystery is achieved. Binary.

> "killing" is its conceptual effect.

It's not, though.

Gae Bolg has always done Gae Bolg things. Its conceptual effect is warping causality. It's a conceptual weapon that warps causality to always hit. It's conceptual effect is "having already hit". Killing is an effect generated, but it doesn't carry the concept of death. It carries the effect of "100% HP damage dealt".

>>34617414
Correct, Gae Bolg ignores armor.

You guys need to stop thinking of Karna's armor as armor in the same sense as Gil's or Arturia's. His armor doesn't give him an Armor Class value, it puts him in a conceptual space.

It doesn't boost his defense. It doesn't boost his HP. It doesn't make his Spiritual Core hardier.

It puts him in a "different world" where the rule of one-tenth is applied.

Gae Bolg's not some conceptual-space killer, I'm not restating all of this so look back at the other parts for everything I said.

Oh yeah, and on the Gae Bolg increases tenfold thing? Cu's Spiritual Core only has enough prana to use it about 9.3 times, so if it would automatically do that, it'd fail and he'd die because you're pushing way too much prana through his core at one time. That's only if that's how Gae Bolg works though, which it's not.

It's a fantastic NP, but you guys either haven't looked at Apocrypha/CCC or are just blindly accepting the "it's got to always kill" premise.

Now I've got to get going, see you all in the next thread.

How does shirou know what sex is?

>>34610278
>>34610301

Oh my god why

I want to restart just because I don't want us to have to kill them. Let them win, they deserve it.

>>34618755
Wrong, you fucking moron. Gae Bolg does not operate in terms of raw damage. It's an instant-kill attack, ignores HP. That is the nature of Gae Bolg. The causality inversion means that it starts by applying "instant kill" effect then the cause catches up by causing the spear to strike the enemy for lethal. A defense like Karna's is useless because it does not stop a conceptual attack of "certain kill" - it only mitigates NPs that operate in raw damage like thrown Gae Bolg. You're reframing a "kill" effect into a "damage" effect even though those are different concepts. The name of the attack is literally "Barbed Spear That Pierces With Death" dumbass.

>>34619171
>To put it into game terms, it would be an insane Noble Phantasm with a base damage plus an additional component that scaled with the target's HP.
>For example, if Saber's HP was 100, then Gae Bolg's damage would be (Spear Damage + 100). She would absolutely be dead if it hit.

it looks like a kill effect because of the damage effect, not a 'kill because concept of death' or something

>>34619229
Except that doesn't hold water because the FSN Gae Bolg should have killed her even when it didn't exactly strike her heart if that were the case because apparently it just does loldmg. Clearly it doesn't work that way.

Also, as for the 9.3 uses argument and getting overmaxed - that's bullshit. Gae Bolg draws prana from the surrounding battleground too - check FSN - and in that territory, yeah. It's enough.

>>34619171
Gae Bolg is not instant kill or raw damage. It is rather complete destruction of the heart through piercing. Which cannot be healed due to the curse. This means pretty much 100% fatality rate but not instant death.
The activation of Gae Bolg reverses cause and effect. This only means that when its used the heart has been pierced by Gae Bolg, like how extreme luck can make the strike 'miss' its target. Karna's armor is technically only reducing the effect of the cause to only 1/10 of the normal result. This is due to the armor forcing the concept over the attack itself not negating it only reducing, the attack still works just at a reduced effect.

>>34618755
Shouldn't Lancer have kept on fighting on due to battle continuation even though he got hit by Fragarach? I'm pretty sure thats canon. Even without a heart, heavily bleeding and injuries his A ranked Battle Continuation should have let him keep on fighting. Then I'm sure using a healing command seal would work.

>>34619283
see >>34619287
if it misses the heart of course it's not an instant kill anymore, because that effect's been reduced as the barbed spear which impales the heart wasn't fully realized

>Also, as for the 9.3 uses argument and getting overmaxed - that's bullshit.

You clearly didn't understand the QM.

>Cu's Spiritual Core only has enough prana to use it about 9.3 times,

Also check >>34612767

>You can activate multiple ones at a time, however even with the leylines, Cu's MAN/MAGI stat doesn't change; that's the maximum prana his core can handle. Meaning, if you try to make him activate too many runes in one go, he won't be able to handle it and he'll fade.

His man stat is B, we can't get around that, 10xgae bolg is too much prana for his core to channel at one time, even if he has access to it through the environment he still needs it to go through his core to do that

>>34619346
CSs can't heal, but you can give an order to longer. yeah, he should have survived for a couple seconds though, not long but enough to at least say/do one or two actions, QM probably screwed that one up

>>34619283
>in that territory, yeah.

That territory that was already completely destroyed at the time when we used Gae Bolg against Karna?

>>34619376
The territory that's prime spiritual land with fookin ambient mana, yes.

>>34619405
Mana doesn't change how much prana Cu can handle at one time. Using a "10xGae Bolg" is too much for his core as per his MGI stat, like >>34619366 said.

Besides, it's not like Karna's armor changes his HP. Gae Bolg scales with enemy HP, not with other conceptual spaces.

If you don't like it, get out.

>>34619366
W can order him to heal right this instant or something. Then his wounds would be forcibly sewed shut with prana, not actual treatment but enough for him to retreat. Although I am really not sure how we would heal that destroyed heart.

>>34619429
That seems fair. Let's mention that when QM gets back.

>>34619366
>has to go through core
Morons... if shit worked like that then caster wouldn't be able to do her rain of light in FSN. The NP directly draws ambient mana into itself.

>>34619453
Then why can't Cu use it an infinite amount of times all in a row as long as he changes locations every 10/11 uses? Why are we explicitly told he has to stop after 7?

>>34619453
You realize Medea's MGI is A+ right? She can channel a shitton more prana at a given time than we can.

>>34619423
If it's wrong, it's wrong. Being the QM doesn't make him right and you shouldn't run a quest in a setting with its own rules and logic if you're not prepared to handle these things.

Sheesh.

>>34619513
But it's not wrong, you're the only one who thinks that. QM explained how this all works when we were in that thread, and even then you haven't properly answered what the other parts of my post, you know, the actual arguments, said.

I have shit to do, so I'll have to stop feeding you.

>>34619468
Those are 7 uses *so long as Lancer is strictly working off of his own prana*. Also, I'd assume most places don't have the kind of ambient prana to completely cover the cost of Gae Bolg. Anyway check FSN because Gae Bolg was totally devouring ambient prana there.

>>34619541
What? Gae Bolg's cost is in the double digits, and mana is everywhere. Literally everywhere. In your bathroom, on the temple, in a cave, on a boat, it's everywhere. A regular room will have a couple hundred units of prana in it, larger areas can have upwards of a thousand.

>Those are 7 uses *so long as Lancer is strictly working off of his own prana*.

Dubious as shit because that's never contextualized. There's mana everywhere, if he could use the prana from mana to refuel he'd never have to stop.

Also you're still not addressing the Spiritual Core thing. Even if he has enough prana, he can't channel it through his core all at once.

>>34619528
>you ignored my actual arguments
Really now? You mean those stupid repetitions of arguments already refuted? You're going to pretend you get some high ground because I didn't bother repeating myself like you did?

What a tool.

>>34619576
>He couldn't use a 10xGae Bolg because it'd overload him
>No, he has enough prana from the surroundings
>Mana doesn't change how much prana Cu can handle at one time.
>STOP REPEATING YOURSELF FAGGOT

Yeah no. You haven't answered how Cu's supposed to channel more prana than the stat which is explicitly "maximum prana a Servant can handle" says he can. Don't act like you have.

I need to go be productive, go troll the 40K threads or something.

>>34619571
I have no idea where you're coming up with these average numbers so source or gtfo.

>dubious as shit
Not really. Refueling nonstop was a tactic both Rider and Caster used. And Gae Bolg drawing mana from the surroundings was already explicitly demonstrated in FSN.

>>34619595
Since reading comprehension is clearly not your forte I'll indulge your idiocy this once and repeat myself: 1) Gae Bolg itself can draw ambient mana. 2) Even if there would be a cap on how much prana he can have in his personal reserves, that doesn't mean there aren't ways to use mana beyond that. In fact the entire thing that makes using mana so awesome is that most mages can use a power beyond their personal means like that.

>>34619607
Rider utilized the energy from mortals which she drained from blood fort or normal draining. Since Shinji couldn't provide enough like Shirou. Caster on the other hand used the leylines with her territory. We could of kept draining from the leylines but Karna destroyed it in 1 shot.
As for Gae Bolg, it has a miniscule cost compared to normal NPs. He still uses our prana + his own tank to use it. ts just remember we are technically supplying two servants because of our link with Nero and she drains relatively quickly.

>>34618797
How much prana can we store anyway? Average for a magus is 25 units while Rin is about 500 units. 1 use of Nero's RM pretty much used most of our stocks so about 150-250?

>>34610195
Just caught up, do you guys not understand playing with meta or something?

>>34619836
>playing with meta

Alright, so before we move on with anything, I'll go ahead and ask if you guys want to restart, seeing as that's become a concern. If we restart, we'll redo Master creation and Servant selection, and the other pairs will change suitably. Odds are I'll also just go ahead and make the restart significantly less meta than this one's been, so probably not the Fifth Fuyuki Grail War again.

If you want to continue, we'll pick up from where we are. On Fragarach and Battle Continuation, Cu will last for a bit, so you're free to use a Command Seal on him to make him "persist" if you go that route. If not, you can either leave him to die, or savescum.

This is a relatively major decision, all that said, so pick what you're comfortable with.

[] Restart from step one.
[] Continue this story.

>>34622019
[x] Restart from step one

Let's do this.

>>34622019
>[] Restart from step one

>>34622019
[] Restart from step one.
If we are going less Meta I vote this.

>>34622019
>[] Restart from step one
Cu's nice and all, but this is too eh.

>>34622019
>[] Restart from step one.
Can you resist making all the enemy Servants have something that can just nullify our Servants usefulness this time around?

>>34622170
I'll try to make it less difficult for you guys this time around, yes.

===

Alright then, I guess there's some form of consensus. Restart it is.

Any objections to waiting for this thread to 404 before we start up again, so that it's cleaner in that regard?

>>34622196
No fuck that, start it already. I need to sleep soon and have been waiting for ages.
Also, can you for the love of god make it less meta this time?
It's kind of annoying when you're presuming meta knowledge.

Meh, fine, fuck it.

Let's start with Servant selection this time. It'll be randomly selected out of the category and class you pick.

[] Canon
[] Noncanon

--

[] Saber
[] Archer
[] Lancer
[] Rider
[] Caster
[] Assassin
[] Berserker

>>34622438

Instead of making a canon/non-canon split, just do whatever. As for the class...

>[X] Assassin

People never give credit to Assassin when due.

>>34622438
>[] Canon
>[] Noncanon
Pick from both pools

[] Assassin

>>34622438
[] Canon
[] Noncanon

>Assassin sounds fun but so does berserker
kind of torn

>>34622438
Archer. Hoping for Herc.

take from both categories

>>34622438
>Letting your players bully you
Oh boy...
[] Saber

Don't care about canon or non-canon as long as its not fan wank levels.

>>34622438
Archer

Canon

>>34622513

Berserker has a completely ridiculous upkeep to compensate for the all-around statboost the class gives. The reason Ilya has no problems with Berserkers is because she wouldn't have them with any Servant, her capacity of that sort of shit is insane.

>>34622438
[] Canon
[] Noncanon

[] Archer

>>34610195
>mfw there's a new fate stay night quest on front page

YUS! catching up on archives now

>>34622555
We're restarting, so you don't need to. We're picking out a Servant now.

>>34622438
>[] Canon
>[] Noncanon

>[] Assassin

>>34622438
>>34622555

[] Assassin
never mind, did we die or something and we're starting again?
Anything but saber or bahhhsaaaakaaaa

>>34622438
[] Assassin
We shadows now

>>34622438
>all this samefagging
[] Saber
[] Archer

>>34622438
Archer or Lancer, whichever's winning, so Archer.

>>34622667
>[] Archer
>[] Canon

>>34622438
[x]Archer

>>34622438
Reading though quest and just realised Dawn is letting the players abuse him even when what occurred was mostly logical.

Players really can't handle failure can they?

>>34622438
Noncanon

Archer or Assassin.

>>34622702
Meant to quote QM.

>>34622438
[] Canon
[] Assassin
no fake bullshit please

>>34622438
[]Archer
Canon

>>34622710
The problem is that Canon actually has some explanations. Most of them are shitty and controversial.

If we do non-canon, he can actually make rulings that cant be disagreed with, as there is no precedent in many cases.

>>34622438
I am the samefag of my words
Anonymous is my body and 1 minute intervals my blood
I have created over a thousand copypastas
Unknown to fairness nor known to not samefagging
Have withstood many capcha to create many same-fag posts
Yet these hands will never hold my vote wish
So as I pray
Unlimited samefag works

>>34622583
Archer

>>34622748
Pretty much, canon's both easier and harder to justify because it's more cogent, but there are also more interpretations on it, inverse for non-canon. No perfect solution.

Anyway samefagging's hit a peak so I'll call off the voting there. I think Archer's leading by a couple, so I'll go get that ready.

>>34622438
[] Noncanon
[] Assassin
[] Berserker

This way no-one can complain about rulings

>>34622438
Jesus christ this level of samefagging. I'm pretty sure theres only 3-4, maybe 5 of us here max.

And the ballots are in, with an equal sample of canons and noncanons used to get your result, so rejoice samefags! You've got three options to choose from, who's it gonna be?

No, I'm not telling you what the noncanons can do in advance.

Also, since we don't know which of Atalanta's NPs is kept and blurred out in her sheet, she'll only have Phoebus if she's picked.

[] Atalanta
[] Odysseus
[] Rama

>>34622710
Well, when we're put up against a Servant that anihilated our territory like it was nothing and can also ignore our Super Weapon, we've already lost before we began.

>>34622927
Oh fuck not ody.
Atlanta is out too since I don't want another shitstorm
so therefore
Rama

Rama.

Haha time for India

>>34622927
[] Odysseus
fatal flaw was arrogance wasn't it?
can't be that bad

>>34622927
>[X] Atalanta
Fuck you non canon faggots

>>34622927
[x] Rama

>>34622927
>[] Odysseus

Let's do this.

>>34622927

Atalanta or Odysseus. Lots of other heroes from that era that'd be interesting to watch fight.

>>34622927
Let's go with Odysseus.

>>34622927
Odysseus

>>34622927
[x] Rama
I have no idea who this is.

Why is nero female? Also why does Nero look very similar to Saber? They don't even have a genetic link?

Does Natsu just have a hard on for genderbending?

>>34622927
>[x] Atalanta
new fag here from /a/, don't know the other two. what vn/ln/game were they from?

>>34622927
Got linked from another board.

So how do we play this?

I think Rama is best choice out of the three but how does this all work?

>>34623104

Saber is Saber is Saber.

>>34622927
[] Rama

>>34622934
Nah. Karna's so fucking prana comsumptive when fighting it's not even funny. Spamming his nuke is less consuming than fighting normally. Well, that's an exaggeration, but still.

Rin called him back because she was about to pull a Kariya and die, and the only reason Karna was even able to fight for the whole fifteen seconds that he did was because his Master was Rin.

If Cu didn't use up 95% of his od trying to nuke Karna with runes and getting injured in the process, and decided to fight Karna normally instead, it would have been different. Yeah, you can't injure him, but in a half-decent condition you can at least survive against him. Your best plan was just to do that. Survive against him. A few seconds into the fight, trap him into Nero's arena. Cu and your prana would help Nero keep it up for longer than you did in that fight, so just cage him in and don't let him leave until Rin's pressured into CSing him out of there.

Well, that was one way you could've turned it around, there are a few others.

Karna's flaw as a Servant is that he's just below Lancelot using Arondight in terms of being difficult to support when fighting. An average magus wouldn't even be able to have him fight for a second.

Anyway, go ahead and keep voting. I'll check the archive when I'm back and go off of that. If obvious samefagging starts then I'll just say fuck it and roll between Rama and Ody.

And on that note, I need to get going, so we'll get to making the Master and getting started when I'm back. Happy questing.

>>34623110
Rama is from the Hindu Epic the Ramayana, he's the incarnation of Vishnu who battles the (infinitely badass) Demon King Ravana.

Odysseus is..well...Odysseus. Neither are canon, people wanted me to pool from canons and noncanons, so I did that.

>>34623136
Go ahead and check the pastebin in one of the top posts (Ctrl-F "Pastebin" if you're lazy) to see some previous threads. Basically I write out what's happening, and you choose how you act.

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>>34623103

>>34622927
>[] Odysseus

>>34623193
>have to crossboard
>nothing happened

well time to read pastebin and see how bad of a fan wank this is
inb4 all stats ex servant

>>34623153

What? I don't understand man. Does the grail just not even take in account their real bodies? I mean I don't understand how this shit works. All i know is Fate Zero.

>>34623487
Out of Universe, people like Seiba, so everybody is Seiba.

In Universe, shut up, its magic.

>>34623487
Just read her wikia entry man or play the game.
It's a case of mistaken identity.

Rolled 2 (1d2)

Back for enough time to make one post.

It's a 6v6 tie for Rama vs Ody, as far as I can tell. This roll decides what we'll be going with. 1 for Rama, 2 for Ody. See you all when we begin, and good luck.

>>34623727
Oh lordy this is not going to end well.
Fatal flaw of arrogance, WHAT CAN POSSIBLY GO WRONG.

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>>34623766

He finds Shinji more sympathetic than we do?

>>34623727
>has chance for being an awesome god character
>choose the greek hero

>>34623727
>ody

I-it can't be that bad right r-right g-guys?

>>34623766
We just have to be more arrogant than he is, obviously!