>>34515710
This is a good start for the Marshals.

>>34515870

Well, let's define them then.

I want everyone to fill out their entry for this:

Legion Warfare specialization

I) Knights of Justice -
II) War Scribes -
III) Silver Spears -
IV) Sons of Fire – Purgation/Area Denial
V) Void Angels -
VI) The Entombed -
VII) Scions of Europa -
VIII) Children of Armok -
IX) Machine Guard -
X) The Crusaders -
XI) Wolves of Dawn/Heralds of Hektor – Shock Assault
XII) Life Bringers – Biological Warfare?
XIII) Nova Defenders – Ranged Warfare/Plasma Weaponry
XIV) Black Augurs - Psyker
XV) Barrow Lords
XVI) Eternal Zealots -
XVII) Gorgers – Bloody Close Assaults
XVIII) Sand Keepers -
XIX) Eyes of the Emperor -
XX) Iron Rangers -
XXI) Council of Iron -
XXII) Thunder Kings -
XXIII) Silver Cataphracts -
XXIV) Mastodontii – Armoured Warfare
XXV) Scale Bearers -
XXVI) Steel Marshalls -
XXVII) Stone Men -

>>34515922
>VI) The Entombed - Auxiliary Shock Troops

Legion Organisation of the Mastadontii

The Mastadontii Legion was a highly structured though not entirely inflexible military force, with numerous tactical and strategic divisions of power and organisations within its ranks. Before the discovery of their Primarch, the Steel Wing Legion had been rigidly dogmatic in its adherence to the patterns set out for the nascent Legions at the start of the Great Crusade though with as bias towards armoured assaults with close air support, and Tollund Ötztal deliberately went out of his way to ensure that despite the changes he wrought to more closely resemble the systems of his frigid homeworld, the Legion would not change beyond all recognition from what had gone before, building upon what had gone before.

The principal strategic building block of the Mastadontii Legion was the Mingghan, or Brigade. This was a combined arms formation, which in addition to the standard 1,000 line Space Marine Legionaries also incorporated a very substantial amount of standing armour, artillery and logistical support elements, attendant human auxiliary troops, Mechanicum detachments and integrated support structures far beyond that found in other Legions at the same level. This meant that each Mastadontii Mingghan was a powerful offensive force in its own right, capable of independent action. Inside an Mingghan, the component formations were configured and ordered in such a way that each unit's function combined together to form a gestalt whole whose tactical and strategic capabilities, like the components of a machine working together in unison, were capable of actions outweighed by the sum of their parts. In battle each Mingghan was given a specific task or objective which it was expected to fulfill, and succeed it would at any cost, for pride, honour and belief in themselves and their cause would allow no other outcome.

>>34515922
XXIII) Silver Cataphracts - Masters of Attrition

>>34515922
Steel Marshals - Offensive Siege and Engineering

They focus on earthworks and close in fighting man to man. Lots of flamers and melee, *relatively* few tanks

>>34515922
Terror tactics, like it says in the wiki

>>34515995

Farther down, the Mingghan broke down into several Tzuun, or Battalions. Each was a heavily mechanised and reinforced unit comprising three to five mechanized line companies of Legionaries and two to three armour cohorts, with supporting detachments. Below this were the Line Companies and Armour Cohorts, comprising roughly 100 Legionaries or 20-40 armoured vehicles, down through sections and individual squads. Tank detachments in the Legion were comprised of four vehicles, slightly above that of the usual three vehicle sections found in other legions to better absorb losses.

Of foremost note within the Mastadontii Legion was the range, number and diversity of the armoured vehicle and artillery support assets fielded by them, with only the armoured formations of the Machine Guard coming close. The Steel Wing Legion had always had an armoured bend to them, and with the mechanically minded Ötztal taking over and renaming them, their specialization in armoured warfare reached new heights. Their armoured component was known to include the full breadth of all general patterns and designs of armour operated across the Imperium by the Legiones Astartes, with tactical emphasis placed on heavy units such as the Land Raider and super-heavy war machines such as the Typhon, Stormblade and especially the vehicle most commonly identified with the legion, the Mastodon heavy transport. Additionally, the employment of very large numbers of "lesser" classes such as the Rhino, Basilisk and Predator was also common.
In addition, the Mastadontii were known to operate large numbers of more unusual variant tanks and specialised war machines such as the Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer, Whirlwind Scorpius, Spynx Recon Carrier and Thunderstrike Assault Gun. Because of their dedication and emphasis on armoured warfare and their vast armoured reserve, the Mastadontii had the largest armoured reserve and ordnance capacity of any of the Legions of the Great Crusade.

>>34515922
War Scribes: Data Processing/Tech Affinity.

As a side benefit of knowing where relics are, knowing how to find the long-lost user's manuals, and a native "percussive maintenance" modifier, they also tend to be the Archaeotech Legion.

Most of the War Scribes can count on having some piece of tech that's better than most Marines.

It might just be a really nice laser sight, it might be a better helmet filter, or for the very best, it might be a superior patter of Terminator armor, perhaps.

Kind of like how the Deathwatch has a stockpile of relics, but better, since this is 30k and all the power levels are increased in that era.

>>34515922
II) War Scribes - Tactical Analysis
VIII) Children of Armok - Jews
XXVII) Stone Men - Appearing out of nowhere to fuck up your day regardless of who you are

>>34516023

The legion put great emphasis on repairing and restoring damaged vehicles, and many of the vehicles in the legion were ones that had been damaged in battle many times only to be restored every time. Those vehicles who had survived many great battles, and who had overcome damage and destruction countless times were greatly honoured by the Legion, and adorned with Mastadon Tusks and pelts to honour the machine spirits of such mighty war machines. Mastadontii commanders took all sorts of esoteric concepts from their homeworld up into the void with them after their sudden and enforced leap in technological progress brought about by contact with the Imperium, and ancient ideals of spirits, honour and balance still counted for a great deal within the Legion. This meant others looked down on them as primitive and shamanistic, barely tamed savages who treated their tanks more like armoured steeds then war machines.


At the outset of the Hektor Heresy, the Mastadontii Legion is commonly estimated to have had an operational strength in excess of 120,000 Astartes, with a huge operating reserve of wargear and supplies and many tens of thousands of armoured vehicles, alongside a diverse fleet of around a hundred capital vessels of various classes. This placed the Mastadontii within the mid-tier of Space Marine Legion strengths, but in general terms, their resources in armour, wargear, war materiel and supply made them a considerably greater military power in practice than their sheer number would suggest.

I've updated the Golgothos and Entombed entries, and added the Entombed to the anti-psyker party for the council of Nikaea.

I still feel like The Entombed need some work though. I'd appreciate criticism/ideas/questions.

>>34515995
>>34516023
>>34516041
Love it. Put it up on the wiki.

Are you Tollund's creator, by any chance? If so I did write a story with your character. Read it, I really hope I did the character justice.

Now, as for deer murder:

I want the Nova Defenders busted down to Chapter. This means that all the stuff Rook started with - defenders of the lighthouse, not on a Primarch scale, just a good strategist with a bit of wit - is fine. They're probably a successor of the Scions of Europa. Scrap their listed successors or give them to other legions. (Ironsides sounds like a Steel Marshal successor anyway.) This is particularly important as it should end, or at least quiet, a running feud in this project.

Barrow Lords down to a Chapter as well, Successors to the Sand Keepers. This gets rid of the "find a niche" problem by piggy-backing them on someone else's concept. Not as big a deal but we need to start drawing a line.

>>34515922
Zealots: Pre-Heresy - Medicae and Close Combat.
Post-Heresy - Fast Attack and Close Combat.


I also had a concept for something.
So before the heresy the Zealots had the Rhino/Land Raider Apothecarium, those mobile hospitals they used.


So what happened to them?

...They fitted them with very, very big vox casters...the tools used inside, corrupted.
The more slaaneshi of the marines, drag their enemies into those Rhinos and with those tools, torture them, the voxs blaring out, pointed towards the enemy, to shock the enemy.

>>34515922
XX) Iron Rangers - Focuses more on ranged combat more than close combat. I'm thinking more stalker bolters for them rather than actual bolters. Quick to move in, quick to leave.

>>34515922
XXVII) Stone Men- Deep Strike/Heavy Bombardment

>>34516100

I liked what you did. A lot. I like the comparison between the two Legions. Both are from cold worlds, but one is optomisitic, believing in fighting for the betterment of mankind, the other is pessimisitc, doesn;t believe in the ideals of the Great Crusade. Plus the whole Infantry/Tank difference, the Silver Cataphracts are an infantry attrition force, while the Mastadontii are tank, and try to recover and repair they destroyed tanks.

Plus the Mastadontii are spiritual, shaman of the ice (Like the OT Wolves and White Scars), while the Cataphracts seem to scorn spirituality.

>>34516203

Also their conflict and relationship resembles this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia

With the Mastadontii as the Siberians.

>>34515922
X) The Crusaders - Mechanized Warfare (Afrika Korps IN SPAAAAACE)

>>34516203
They're secular as hell, but unlike what the Emperor, believe that sorcery can be a tool for humanity. They believe the true goal of the Great Crusade is to protect, preserve, and improve humanity, but they have different ideas of what this means than others. Alexandri is a tired, bitter, angry ruler who wallows in self-pity and vices. His Legion are better than him in temperament, but still have a cold fatalism and dourness to them. In their own eyes, they're ultra-realists.

>>34515922
Council of Iron. I like them a lot. Is anyone else going to expand on them more or is no one going to bother.

>>34515710
Legion Tactics

The Steel Marshals are a force built to raze enemy strongholds to the ground and crush the heart of their resistance. While other legions crush the enemy by weight of bombardment or armor, or else defeat the fortifications by cautious planning or brutal swiftness, the Marshals wage war through grit and strength of the marines themselves. They specialize in aggressive engineering, using excavators, drills, or their own bare hands to undermine the enemy and bring their walls crashing down. "Friendly" rivals to the Gatekeepers, they were clever in building forward positions, strongpoints and muster grounds from which to prosecute the extensive mining and engineering projects that circumvent enemy defenses and drive the men into the enemy from unexpected angles.

Once a means of bypassing the enemy's static defenses has been formed, the Marshals drive the onslaught home with a spearhead of heavily armored infantry. Specialist formations equipped with flamers and area-denial weapons drive the enemy from the breach, clearing the way for their battle-brothers to erupt from the earth and get to grips with their foe. The fighting here is often brutal and close quarters, as the Marshals often emerge within the bastions of the enemy and are forced to fight from room to room with swords and axes as much as they do with gun and flamer.

Legion Equipment

Trademark of the Steel Marshal's arsenal is an extensive array of mining engines, geo-augurs, and similar devices. Heavy lift vehicles line the bays of their transport craft, which haul the equipment needed to excavate on a grand scale.
The individual marines are heavily armored; the legion boasts a large stockpile of Mk 3 "Iron" power armor. Terminator formations are common, and have developed early-pattern storm-shields. Additionally, the individual marine is quite often armed with incendiary weapons and power weapons are common, even among the rank and file.

>>34516285
I think Uriel made some promises about that.

>>34516285
Uriel was working on them I think

>>34516274

Funny, as the Mastadontii are the Russian Front Tank Battles IN SPAAAAACE (with Inuit/Siberian Natives)

Should I change my guy to Wars of Attrition or something? It still matches his theme of not caring much for his brothers or Astartes and liking war. Maybe he's like Russ and was built to fight other Astartes.

>>34516203
Oh yeah, if you have the time, I'd like a story written from the perspective of a Mastadontii about the Cataphract's auxiliaries, the Strelky. For some reason this interests me immensely.

>>34516041

Legion Organisation of the Sons of Fire

At its creation, the IV Legion, like almost all the Space Marine Legions of the time, followed the standard "Terran Pattern" of organisation as laid out for all the newly created Legions, but even in this earliest period the Legion's procurement and outfitting showed a considerable bias towards direct assault and operations within the close and deadly confines of the kinds of battlefields designated as "Zone Mortalis”, with a speciality on using area denial weapons such as flamers which were most effective in this type of warfare. Once Inferox took command this trend continued, and the Legion's organisational structures were kept largely intact and further streamlined, with its echelons being modified into specialized line infantry formations known as Conflagrations. A Conflagration was a Battalion-level hybrid of tactical/close assault troops for the main part, supported by dedicated heavy assault units such as Terminators and specialised units such as Land Speeder squadrons. This organisation lent itself well to a highly aggressive strategic posture and belligerent tactics involving area denial, burning the enemy out of their fortifications and positions.

Area Denial was the main forte of the Sons of Fire, which made them lethal in urban warfare and in Zone Mortalis operations. As time went on this specialization was joined by a growing hunger for fire, a need to inflict pain by fire, to burn, not merely disintegrate. This led to the use of special types of flamer fuel, that which instead of disintegrating the target outright would scorch and burn them, leaving them broken and bleeding and waiting for the kiss of the Sons of Fire’s flaming axes. These bloody practises went unnoticed initially, but as the crusade dragged on more and more noticed the pyromaniac tendencies and hunger for both blood and fire that would doom the Legion.

>>34516352
I think your legion should definitely be the one made to fight other legions. They're brutal and they just smash and destroy. Perfect for purging those pesking heretics and all the evidence of their existence.

>>34516392

While the Sons of Fire did utilise field armour, support vehicles and transports, these were not given any primacy in the Legion's tactical doctrine. The only exception was flame-weapons tanks such as the Malcador and Predator Infernus, and the Land Raider Redeemer invented by the Sons of Fire as an assault transport that would later be adopted by other Legions.

Noteworthy is that the Sons of Fire quickly became associated with the use of alchem and radiation weaponry to a greater extent than any other Legion, especially the use of burning Phosphex which the legion soon specialized in.

Though the Great Crusade was launched to conquer worlds and not destroy them, unless there was no alternative, in such warzones where there was no hope for human life or where the only option was complete purgation, the usual caveats and protocols restricting the use of contaminate weapons by the Emperor's command did not often apply and these warzones were often entrusted to the Sons of Fire who took great joy in burning them to the crust.

In the aftermath of the betrayal at Istvaan III, the Sons of Fire became ever more insular and uncontrollable on the battlefield as their desire for Fire and Blood took them over, turning them into double-edged sword even to their allies as they burned whole swathes of the battlefield, uncaring who was incinerated. All-out infantry assaults supported by fast moving armour, with the aim of immediately closing into bloody short range and melee and always with the intent to burn the foe from the battlefield became their only goal; inferno for its own sake beyond any strategic objective to the contrary.

>>34516320
Hmmm very interesting.

>>34516352
That's funny, you're not on the Legions list.

Fuck.

You're not on the Legions list.

Moving to give the Horns of Ruin Legion IX, they seem really inactive.

>>34516436

We need a Loyalist Tank Legion to oppose the Mastadontii, which I thought the Machine Guard were.

>>34516456
Don't we already have the Steel Marshals and maybe the Crusaders for that?

>>34516436
He's around. He's more active than some. I haven't seen the Gorgers guy in some time. Is he still around at all?

What was his name again? Nathanog?

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>>34516198
if it's not obvious, here's a more detailed description
Pre-Heresy: use superior heavy artillery and fleet support to carve out a drop zone. Then use mass drop pods to deliver heavily armed and armored astartes.
Post-Heresy: destroy any space auxiliaries with mass meteor strikes. then deliver heavily armed and armored astartes through massive meteor showers.
if necessary, small planetoids may be used as ammunition

>>34516469
He is...controversial.

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>>34516490
Seig ZEON!

>>34516465
Marshals are infantry-heavy. They're more a counter to the Bulwark and to a lesser degree the Sons of Fire: lots of fire, close in weapons, and engineering. They rely more on Dreadnoughts and manpower.

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>>34516519
DAMN RIGHT!

>>34516546
Got it. However, Thomas was talking about making the Crusaders into a Not!Afrika Korps in the last thread, which should be good enough for Not!Tank Battles of WW2 with the Mastadontii.

>>34516499
See, people get into fights with Nathanog over the setting. My guy gets in fights with Aubrey in the setting.

>>34516562

I was thinking that we'd have the Not!Tallarn between the Mastadontii and the Machinist Legion/Assorted Others at some point. The biggest Tank battle of the universe.

To even out the Loyalist vs Traitors a bit, should we maybe see about convincing Octullus to making them Renegades rather than jumping sides?

>>34516628
By them I mean the Eyes of the Emperor.

The words where there in my mind, just not in the post.

>>34516499
I remember, thankfully I wasn't around for most of that nastiness nor was I involved for parts I did see. I can certainly attest to his being controversial.

>>34516562
The Steel Marshalls are siege breakers though. They come in with drilling machines and demolisher cannons and giant FUTURE SIEGE TOWERS waving swords and flamers. That's how I think of them. If that's not what the new author wants to do with them then my apologizes.

The Entombed are no longer defensive specialists who sit on their planet and do nothing. They serve as auxiliaries to other legions as they don't have the numbers to fight wars themselves. They are still extremely good at defending entrenched positions, and are often called upon to hold a position, freeing up their allies to go on the offensive. However, they are often used as steel rain shock troops, using drop pods to deploy Terminators, Dreadnoughts, and Centurions to critical battlefield positions, breaking up the enemy. They are unable to bring their famous Ossuary Dreadnoughts to such maneuvers, however, as Ossuaries are too bulky to fit in a drop pod.

>>34516628
>>34516658
If we adopt my kill-Bambi plan above and swap out the Machine Guard for the Horns of Ruin, we're at 12 Loyalists, 12 Renegades (including Uriel), and the Eyes.

>>34516727
>kill bambi plan
what?

>>34516675
Sorry, Marshals was mainly confusion on my part. But the Crusaders thing is at >>34515108

>>34515922
The Thunder Kings are generalists, and will commit to any campaign.

However, their expertise lies primarily in protracted conflicts. I suppose you could put attrition as their specialization, if you had to put something.

>>34516675
Dropping the towers; those are a pretty terrible idea in the face of demolisher cannons and artillery. The drills, digging and siegebreaking? That's sticking.

>>34516761
See >>34516116

>>34516727
Fair enough

>>34516761
He wants to axe the Novas and Barrow Lords

Personally I think we could make a new XIIIth Legion to fit the bill but what ever.

>>34516727
Wait so my guy would be loyalist? Well that would be hilarious. The asshole who turns out to not be evil but still a huge asshole.

>>34516727
IIRC, we have 27 Legions. I guess there could be three "neutral" Legions.

It could be 3 neutrals who forged independent human empires (and were killed of course, no independent empires in 40k)

Any/all of them could be Alpha Legion style deals where no one's sure what's going on.

Any/all of them could have been II/XI Legionned, where something went bad wrong and they were killed by another Primarch and his legion. This could let us set up a stronger Russ analogue as well.

>>34516799
I like it, sure
plus it plays into the fact that the scions are technologically/strategically superior

>>34516810
No, you're still a Traitor, we just need to even out the teams a bit.

>>34516832
Even better.

>>34516800
OOH OOH CAN I MAKE A CHAPTER!

>>34516727
Perfect. That shakes out incredibly well because the Machine Guard have been inactive for some time.

>>34516761
Removing all the people who haven't posted in some time and have little fluff

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Legions still to be defined:

I) Knights of Justice -
III) Silver Spears -
VII) Scions of Europa -
VIII) Children of Armok -
IX) Machine Guard -
XV) Barrow Lords -
XVIII) Sand Keepers -
XIX) Eyes of the Emperor -
XXI) Council of Iron -
XXV) Scale Bearers -

>>34516675
Yes, I was tired of being in the middle of it all.
Come watcher, we should hatch various plans, involving sorcerous xenos and such things.

>>34516830
I don't think we should have 27 legions. 25 sounds like a natural stopping point. The Russ analogue is actually Gaspard, but he kills off the troubling Primarchs post-Heresy.

>>34516879

I agree with 25 Legions.

>>34516879
25 is an uneven number, unless one of the 25 was given the Legion II/XI treatment.

>>34516876
Can I destroy your planet? Or does the Knights of Justice guy have dibs on that? My character does hate yours. Left the council of Nikaea early, where I think your guy hung around? Maybe he found a human-xenos hybrid and used in as an excuse to Exterminatus your world

>>34516926

I'd say Knights of Justice.

>>34516906
I have said this a few times recent, but sure, let's do it again. The Eyes get strong-armed into helping the Renegades, then get skittish and try to make amends with the Loyalists, then get raked over the coals and semi-destroyed.

>>34516879
25's good with me. I just thought we had already created more Legions than that.

>>34516936

The Eyes were at Isstvan V.

>>34515922

VIII) Children of Armok - Manipulation, politics, espionage, and highly informed ambushes/rapid surprise tactical assaults.
We're pretty much just flexible generalists with very good intel on our targets. We tend to avoid big pitched battles where we can.

>>34516030
fucking conspiracy theories everywhere!


Also to the Anon doing the Nikaea Psyker list - The Council of Iron are against Psykers, I figure we have a lot of them, and not so many anti-psykers. The council will be witch hunters of a sort.

>>34516164
brutal - I like it!

>>34516274
Also liking the new Afrika corps direction!

>>34516285
yeah I'm working on them to fill a role we haven't really used yet - anti-magic. (not they're not all nulls or some bs either)

>>34516294
I like what you're doing with them Wayward = carry on good sir!

>>34516418
The battle of Kursk in Space!
Or various other battles - El Alamein/Tobruk?

>>34516610
see above - a giant tank battle IN SPAACEE?
We need a space Kursk - biggest tank battle in history out on the Russian Steppes.

>>34516863
the council of Iron will still be around. I have what I think is a good concept for them = will get it posted tomorrow - first need a sleep

>>34516926
Knights of Justice already did it.
We kinda hate them more than you.

I had the concept you meet Aubrey after the event and decided to mock him face to face.
This would turn into this universes Wolf and the Lion.
After a while into the fist fight, Kranios would likely laugh mockingly at him, only to get a rageful hook, Aubrey stalking off.
This would cause a rivalry intensified later on.

>>34516294
Hey, I remember you writing up some stuff for the Hammers of Brennus before.

I notice that you've never actually committed it to writing; are you planning on adding it to the wiki eventually?

>>34516964
Yes. That's where they get strong-armed by Hektor.

>>34516957
One of them (the Nova Defenders) is a constant source of strife. The Barrow Lords are only at brain-storming stage. Machine Guards are abandoned. That's where I want to make the cut.

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I want to finish this. So I need a final Traitor Legion with Sigil.

Someone please deliver?

>>34516983
Okay, yeah that's great.

>>34516906
>>34516936

technically, the Children are on neither side/ or both depending on your interpretation - we fit the bill for that middle of the road legion to a t.

>>34517013
So, Machine Guards is out, because no one speaks for them. That's 26.

Who's the other one you want to cut though? Barrow Lords and Nova Defenders are both active, quality or lack thereof aside.

>>34517019
The Ram and the Zealot?

>>34517040
All three get cut. We actually have 28 Legions, but Kranios didn't get put in the Legion number table.

>>34516975
Thanks, I've been struggling to find an actual real life basis for the Crusaders, but the Afrika Korps seemed like the closest thing I could find. And a big tank battle would be pretty awesome.

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>>34517014
This I guess? My guys probably shot up a few of the traitors too, knowing my Primarch.

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>>34517087

>>34517088
Well, if we can get consensus from, let's say 6 other Primarchs, I guess we can cut both.

I'm always hesitant to cut people in projects like this, as it's such a potentially touchy and subjective subject.

>>34517144
Awesome.
So the pair of legions challenge each other in combat.

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I'm back, what the hell happened?

Have the Knights of Justice had any work done on them lately?

>>34517182
Does your guy fall to Khorne at the end if everything, or only a few of his companies?

>>34517172
Yeah, well, I'm not saying that we should turf the guys out altogether, but Rook North and the Nova Defenders were conceived of as a Chapter and make more sense there. The Barrow Lords could be worked in as Successors, too.

>>34517220
I'm ruining everyone's fun to cut the Legions down to 25 and have roughly even sides in the Heresy.

>>34516294
Legion Equipment Cont'd

Unique to the Steel Marshals is the Castra pattern dreadnought, which eschews long ranged heavy firepower for close in heavy weaponry. Sporting a breacher siege drill for its main weapon with underslung heavy flamer, it is meant to grind through earth, stone, rockcrete and plasteel to immolate the foe within their fortifications. It would pave the way for future developments that lead to the "Ironclad" dreadnought.

Legion Doctrine

In the wake of Roman Albrechts arrival, the Steel Marshals adopted a strong, unified culture espousing the virtues of the crusade and the strength of man. This code quickly evolved into a fully fledged philosophy that permeated the culture of the legion. It espouses unwavering resolve, peerless courage, and above all the endless strength of man. Though bordering on a religious fervor, this ideal within the legion remained detached from superstition and mysticism. Instead, it promotes ritual to reaffirm the virtues of reason, and to prove the endurance and willpower of the individual marine through trials of stamina and tests of strength.
The shift became most marked in the prosecution of war; where the Marauders would raze the foe to the ground and move on, the Marshals burn the heart from the enemy and offer the defeated the chance to join the imperium as proven survivors and adherents to the doctrine of the Retainers Creed. In this respect, new recruits would in many cases be drawn from the best and hardiest of the natives of worlds brought into the fold; they would be claimed by the Marshals to add new blood to the legion and strengthen the belief that to be man is to be ascendant in the galaxy.

So is my legion taking the Machine Guards place on the legion chart or he still around?

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>>34517115

Right, I want everyone's opinion on this now. If you all like it, then Isstvan V, the Drop Site Massacre will be done, and I'll put it up on the Wiki, and we'll know who fought in the battle where the Dreams of the Emperor were destroyed, and Hektor's Heresy kicked off.

"War is the crucible in which we burn. In the fires of battle is the past consumed and the future born on tongues of flame. No greater fire has there been in our times than the three bloody hours of the Dropsite Massacre."

>>34515922
Eyes - Ranged warfare/Artillery specialist s

>>34517172
I do agree with Arelex - we always seem to get an anon popping in wanting to help out/join. It'd be handy if we had some slots to throw their way.

And as far as the Barrow Lords go - I know we are struggling to find a niche for them, but I do really like their notCultural stuff - very different.

I think we need to make a big list of different types of tactical/strategic ethos - I'll begin on that tomorrow along with finishing off my primarch/legions fluff so i can get on with the Council Of Iron and Bulwark Primarch sections.

But with that list - I won't think of everything - so I'll post up what I can come up with, and you guys can throw other stuff in - I'm sure we can find **something**

Anyway - long day. I need sleep = see you all in the morrow friends.
Good work /tg/, :)

>>34517228
Bohemond is around but doesn't get a lot of shit done. If you were keen you could crawl through the old threads (search "Knights of Justice" for his posts) and piece together what he's aiming at.

>>34517014
The fuck am I looking at here?

>>34516190
Yo. Assault force. Deep strike. Guerilla warfare. Strategic assets.

>>34517256

Chaos Undivided.

>>34517256
Only a few Companies.
Which are turned into metalic-daemon centaur astartes.

Aubrey keeps himself in all the gods favour, undivided, but allows his men to follow gods as they please, so long as the glory flows to the gods.

>>34517316
Aight

>>34517307
>It'd be handy if we had some slots to throw their way.

Successors. The line has to be drawn somewhere, or we will end up with 2000 Legions.

>>34517297
This works out pretty well with my fluff. The three groups of Entombed on the left all get bombarded by nearby Life Bringers, leaving the group on the right as the only surviving Entombed.

>>34517318

You can see where your Legion was at various points during the battle. At least that's my intention.

>>34517010
I wasn't wholly sure if I should. I'm somewhat hesitant to tinker with somebody else's thing.

That, and I actually have no idea what I'm doing with wiki pages. I've never worked on one before.
>>34516975
I'm drawing a bit of Salamanders for their ethos to explain how they A: remain loyal, and B: are in the anti-psyker camp. So far, so good.

>>34515870
Hey guys, have we decided wether or not the loyalists know of the Eyes betrayal, and if so, if there was a trial

>>34517405
There was a trial, it didnt end well for you.

>>34517376

I try to take what everyone says into consideration. I hope I did well in your case.

The Knights and Zealots are positioned do the great duel can happen there. The Eyes are at the back so they can cut and run when they see the corruption. That sort of thing.

>>34517360
D owe have enough guys going Khornate already. Thinking maybe my guy should, since you soured him to Psykers and he keeps throwing his men into brutal wars.

>>34517443

We have two Khorne Legions already, the Sons of Fire and Gorgers. Khorne is the big winner of this Heresy.

>>34517405
You need to decide on these things. But note that secret treachery is already kinda Uriel's thing (core concept) so trying to do it too ends up with "I have the concept of having many concepts".

I favour execution for Octullus and the Eyes absorbed by Void Angels, only to be refounded under a different name later on.

>>34517468
Okay forget it then, My guy's will stay undivided or just die by the end of everything.

Also, for those who don't know/aren't tracking, I'm dropping the whole "tech obsessed" vibe I've been doing. Which means an almost complete rewrite. And while the corrupted AI fucking with our brains is where our fall started, we need something to push him over the edge. All depending on timeline.
I'm thinking Hektor calls him in for a "chat."
Voidwatcher shows him basically what Horus was shown in his "visions" about the future of the Empire:
Dystopia, ruin, people all fucked up because everything sucks, etc.
Merrill finally goes fuck that and signs up. sound good?

>>34517373
>>34517278


If the Nova Defenders really *were* originally a chapter, and you can honestly tell me that you want them gone for reasons other than the drama they caused, then I will support cutting them.

I do like the Barrow Lords though, it's a kickass name. If they're really the "commerce" Legion or whatever, it'd be interesting if their Legion took a different route than others.

What if the Barrow Lords were split much more intensely than other Legions, down to the Squad level, and they were spread across the entire Imperium as sort of a Coast Guard Legion?

They would be expressely forbidden from gathering in groups larger than 50 or so, but they'd still technically have the prestige of calling themselves a Legion.

Seem cool?

>>34517504
You could use the corrupt AI brain implants thing without the Legion being tech obsessed.

>>34517539

We need the AI to fuck with the Emperor's Webway Project, otherwise the Emperor wpould just fuck over the Traitors like there's no tomorrow.

Why has everyone here forgotten the Emperor in all this?

>>34517497
Have him mock the thought of praising only khorne.
Something along the lines of him having enough power and prowess as it is.

>>34517517
>If the Nova Defenders really *were* originally a chapter

Rook told us in an early thread (I want to say 3?) that he basically took his homebrew Chapter and dumped it here as a Legion.

>you can honestly tell me that you want them gone for reasons other than the drama

They still don't have a concept. The last time Rook was in, he was proposing strategist with a dick sense of humour.

>Barrow Lords
Why do they need to be a Legion? Why did the Emperor create the Ultimate Warrior-Merchant?

>>34517569
Because the Emperor doesn't have an anon pushing him and his fluff is pretty well thought out.

>>34517435
Was there? Is it in the google doc? I can't seem to find it in the 1d4chan page.

If not, we should hold the trial in thread OR we could say it happened behind closed doors and Octullus was not seen after wards ever again, locked in the deepest vaults of terra

>>34517598
Commerce is a big part of any country or empire. It might have been useful to have an overseer of the merchant class.

I don't have a particularly strong desire to keep them, mind you, I'm mostly just speaking out on behalf of the fact that the Barrow Lord guy has done a decent bit of work thus far.


Dumping the AWOL guy and the Defenders is ok with me. I'd prefer the removal of the Barrow Lords to have a bit more consensus, though.

>>34517632
>we should hold the trial in thread

No. God no. Nikaea in thread was a disaster. Just decide what happens to your guy.

>>34517496
I agree, a trial should be in place. But i am not sure about the refounding, especially if you are doing it, no offense. Why would they give the suspicious legion who us already the largest even more marines under your command

>>34517632
>>34517669
If people want to writefag about what their Primarch's speech was at Nikaea, that's fine. Doing more than that seems excessive and unneccesary.

>>34517632
Not really no, but there was talk from Gaspard about having Octullus killed off and the Legion absorbed by one of the others.

>>34517539
Oh, I was still going to do that.
All the traitors were tainted long before they really fell and declared themselves, I was going to use the implant as the original taint.
I'm talking what pushed me over the ledge to declare for Hektor. The final straw, etc.

>>34517569
And did we ever decide what it was that fucked with the project? I remember suggesting we were doing some experiment that may have fucked shit up, but I don't remember it really going anywhere.
But I do agree. We need that bit.
Or, we might not. It was still in it's early development stages when Magnus fucked it up, could have taken YEARS to make it work right, we could just have it "in development."

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>>34517669
>Nikaea in thread was a disaster
Well I enjoyed it.

>>34517675
Because at the end of the Heresy, Gaspard has the men and guns to make himself Emperor. Or Regent. Or whatever. Accepting his settlement on the Eyes is a pretty small price to have him use the Void Angels to hunt down the Traitors instead.

>>34517730
I had fun.

I would like to work out my Primarch's back story, but I'll be heading off soon. I'll be back on tomorrow. If anyone wants to help me with my Primarch, please let me know and we'll work it out tomorrow.

>>34517669
maybe we could just have a vote and a blurb of the primarchs speech ? That way we can have some interactivity.

>>34517707

If it wasn't fucked, then the Emperor would have flown out and smashed the traitors single-handedly.

For the Heresy to succeed, the Emperor has to be trapped beneath the Imperial Palace fighting a never-ending tide of Daemons.

>>34517730
>>34517749
Nothing came out of it other than a show of hands.

>>34517389
Feel free, man. I've got work throughout the week, so it's not like I'm always around to tinker stuff. I'll be habitually adding to the Thunder Kings Legion entry and elaborating on their culture/tactics, but I don't mind others using them for their own purposes (within reason).

>>34517707
Why not have one of the Psychic Legions fuck it up, either accidentally or on purpose in the case of the Augurs. A vision told them to do something.

>>34517767
Sometimes that is all you need friend Lumey.

>>34517675
I say Penitent crusade into the Eye of Terror where in every Traitor tears you a new one. Maybe Slaanesh makes you watch her orgies for the rest of eternity or Tzeencth uses your eyes as a pair of dice?

>>34517768
Well, now that I've got the Steel Marshals to work on, I'm going to step back from the 2nd founding and splinter group stuff.

Though, hands down I plan to make minis of some of these as part of my deathwatch counts-as sternguard squad

>>34517767
Doesn't matter. Empy comes down and declares it a moot point and bans them all, anyways.

>>34517759
>>34517783
Agreed. The AI felt more important to dealing with the virus that fucked Mars up, anyways (to me at least).

>>34517783
But we already knew what the outcome of the Council would be, because it's up to the Emprah. So if it was going to be a BIG thing for a Legion, then the anon pushing them needed to explain what position they took and why as part of their story.

Looking at the wiki, only one person did that.

>>34517832
I don't really see it that way. There are more Pro-Pskyers than only three Legions. The Council of Nikaea didn't even see that many Primarchs show up, or even Legions being represented. So the outcome might be different in this timeline because of these changed circumstances.

>>34517832
Well, yeah, but it was only really a pressing point for a couple of Primarchs, really.
Even mine would have wanted them around, just having safeguards to keep them under control.

>>34517862
Yeah, because you fixed it. Sorry, dude, but you did. You repeatedly said, HEY HEY GUYS WHERE ARE YOU AT NIKAEA?!! So of course people answered. But if they really cared, it'd be on the wiki.

So as far as I can tell, only Gaspard actually showed up.

>>34517898
Golgothos actively opposed psykers. Shit, he probably even got violent about it. He was definitely there.

>>34517898
To be fair, a LOT of people either don't want to put stuff on the wiki, or are too lazy to do so.

Not that I'm condoning it, but don't misrepresent things.

>>34517898
If what is on the wiki is an indication of what people cared, then nobody gave a shit about any of this.

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>>34517937
>>34517898
Some people just want to have a solid idea about what they're doing before updating the wiki...

>>34518006
That's fine. I'm saying that I just wanted to get some of the events organized across the timezones, and apparently to Lumey I am the devil because of this.

>>34517936
The problem is - and I'm not picking on Golgothos, but because it's here right now: >>34517927 comes after the guy spent a lot of time updating the wiki. All the things that were really important and defining went in.

Not Nikaea.

>>34518061
Firstly, I don't have anything against you and I don't think you did it on purpose. But what you've ended up doing is presenting Nikaea as some sort of compulsory class for Primarchs.

>>34518102
I don't know what this post means

>>34518102
Overall, the outcome at Nikea was intensely important to the Empire and how the HH managed to go down.
The problem is, at the smaller level, personally with the primarchs, Nikea itself held little value to some, immense value to others. It depends on the individual.

>>34518159
Today, you came on and spent a lot of time updating Golgothos' information in the wiki.

His potential activity Nikaea didn't occur to you. I don't think that's a personal failing, just a sign that it's not essential to a lot of the Primarchs' stories.

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Not really related to much of the present discussion, but a Color Concept for a Haruspex Legionnaire .

The red of the right gauntlet symbolizes the companies position as their Primarch's Red Right Hand and their tendency to be thrown in to cause the most terror, as well as their use in decapitation strikes on an enemy force. The white pauldron insets used in place of the Legion's traditional black are intended to be splashed with the blood of an opponent, allowing the Legionnaire and his brothers an oportunity to discern the future for the ichor lining it, the same applies to the white of the Astartes' weapons though for personal insight. The laurel and helmet stripe signify this Brother as a highly regarded Veteran.

>>34517297
Nathanog got first blood I'm sure.

>>34518229
I don't see any Nikaea section other than a simple list, and he's on there. I definitely agree with you that everybody shouldn't be there, just the ones who feel strongly about it.

>>34515870
I exist! Works a bitch

>>34518260
Nathanog was probably already eating a guy before the battle even started.

>>34518157
Well, there's no reason the Emperor couldn't have made it a bigger deal.

Nikaea *could* easily have been mandatory, or perhaps the Primarchs simply wanted to be there and have their voices heard more.

No reason they couldn't have all been in attendance, I know Arelex would have felt very, very strongly about banning psykers.

>>34518286

Nathanog's men probably opened the betrayal of the second wave.

>>34518292
Remember, some Legions sent a representative at the very least.

>>34518275
The list is really misleading in that regard, due to the way the Council was presented. You could have included Nikaea in Golgothos' section, though.

>>34517297
I can see The Gorgers and The Life Bringers did some work. I will have to remember that, seems like an interesting development.

Life Bringers are Nurgle right? Nurgle and Khorne works!

>>34518279
FUCK

Does this mean I have to give the marshals back now?

>>34518320
I'm still unsure about The Entombed and Psykers. Originally, before this was an AU thing, he was betrayed by the Thousand Sons, and therefor hated psykers, and didn't abide them in his army. For a while he was even a Null, and so his geneseed couldn't produce psykers. Now they just have a sort of Black Templars "PSYKERS R BAD MKAY?" thing going, which doesn't even really fit with them thematically in any significant way.

>>34518358
>>34518279

You guys gotta talk it out. It's working the same concept so you should be OK to fuse it and maybe farm some stuff out to Successors.

>>34518321

Sons of Fire are also Khorne, and yes Life Bringers are Nurgle. One Khorne Legion in the Original Traitors, and a second Khorne Legion in the Second Wave.

>>34518319
I'll say Merrill was there.
A) because I did speak out there yesterday, and
B) because he might have wanted to actually be there and hear the arguments presented.

>>34517517
Oh I can help with that!

So, Rook pretty much told us in previous threads that the Nova Defenders are based on his own Chapter army.

They are essentially just Lighthouse defenders, they guard a Lighthouse in the middle of nowhere, but that Lighthouse has [cue mysterious whatever].

AND

The Primarch is a blatant self-insert because of the nature of the first thread "Make a Primarch out of yourself"-kinda.
That's he was all about bein weak, reading books, being isolated,
But thanks to PRIMARCH, BOOM he is the super-bro of everyone and everyone loves him despite him being the worst Primarch possible and letting his Legion do the work for him.

>>34518286
Nathanog is always eating some guy.

The problem is, he eats them fast...

>>34518358
Ill be home later but I like what you've written

>>34518369
... that was not the impression I got from >>34517927

>>34518320
Yo Gaspard, what is the reason Gaspard would want the Eyes? Also, when he refounds them, would he tell them of their past and resestalish their traditions?

>>34518358
Shits pretty good actually. Did you change the Primarchs death at the Crucible? And muh siege towers.

>>34515922

Can we have an update on this?

Just to see what legion need to be shaped up yet.

>>34518507
Yeah, but he doesn't really have a reason to be that way anymore, after the rewrites I mentioned

>>34518525

Ok

I) Knights of Justice -
II) War Scribes - Tactical Analysis /Tech Affinity
III) Silver Spears -
IV) Sons of Fire – Purgation/Area Denial
V) Void Angels – Terror Tactics
VI) The Entombed - Auxiliary Shock Troops
VII) Scions of Europa -
VIII) Children of Armok – Manipulation, politics, espionage, and highly informed ambushes/rapid surprise tactical assaults.
IX) Horns of Ruin -
X) The Crusaders - Mechanized Warfare
XI) Wolves of Dawn/Heralds of Hektor – Shock Assault
XII) Life Bringers – Biological Warfare?
XIII) Nova Defenders – Ranged Warfare/Plasma Weaponry
XIV) Black Augurs - Psyker
XV) Barrow Lords -
XVI) Eternal Zealots - Fast Attack, Medicae and Close Combat
XVII) Gorgers – Bloody Close Assaults
XVIII) Sand Keepers -
XIX) Eyes of the Emperor – Ranged warfare/Artillery Specialists
XX) Iron Rangers – Assault force. Deep strike. Guerilla warfare. Strategic Assets
XXI) Council of Iron -
XXII) Thunder Kings – Protracted Conflicts/Attrition
XXIII) Silver Cataphracts - Masters of Attrition
XXIV) Mastodontii – Armoured Warfare
XXV) Scale Bearers -
XXVI) Steel Marshalls - Offensive Siege and Engineering
XXVII) Stone Men – Deep Strike/Heavy Bombardment

>>34518553
Shaping up nicely! Thanks!

>>34518245
I love it. The one thing though is the eyes are supposed to be white, not purple. The whole aesthetic is great though. I really really like the explanation for the white shoulderpads.

After the Heresy the Haruspex would pretty quickly have broken off into a Warband so if we ever get done that they're all yours. Or of course you can make your own or make other peoples characters. You're just doing this so awesomely I kinda want you to stick around with me and my legion.

>>34518522
Haven't gotten that far, but I wasn't planning to. I was actually thinking of having the crucible rock them pretty hard, considering they'd be fighting the only force that would be prepared to thwart their methods.

As for the siege towers, I dunno man. All it takes is one vindicator...

>>34518553
Wars of Attrition

>>34518516
He doesn't want them. As I said before, he's helping in the most Gaspard way possible.

>when he refounds them, would he tell them of their past and resestalish their traditions?

Sort-of. Gaspard wouldn't found a Successor Chapter on the basis that they had screwed up. The Eyes would probably get some kind of weird revised history where Octullus was Gaspard's twin and died all too early and oh so sad and that's why they were in the one Legion. Because that's a heritage that they could be proud of.

>>34515922
Jungle Beastmasters.

Also, I'm back!

>>34518553
I think we have a conflict between Steel Marshalls and Horns of Ruin.

Horns of Ruin are supposedly about messy, overkill, siege offense and it kinda fit the theme.

Steel Marshalls as Combat Engineers could free up the trait.

I propose
IX) Demolition
XXVI) Steel Marshalls - Engineering, Techmarines.

>>34518684
Welcome home!

>>34518684
Can we make your guys mobile warfare, with some interest in bikes? It's not as though the White Scars ride horses.

>>34518736
I was thinking he could be about Shock Troops, since he is essentially about dragons.

>>34518736
Well, horses aren't strong enough to carry Space Marines. Giant dinosaurs, on the other hand... with that said, you DO still have a valid point.
>>34518776
This could also be a thing.

>>34518721
That was kinda the plan. Horns of Ruin use heavy bombardment and overwhelming force, while the Steel Marshals are focused more on undermining the defenses and getting to close grips with the enemy.

>>34518602
Ahhh, i see. If you want, you could write a blurb about how that went down on yours and mines pages.

>>34518601
>>34518809
>>34518577

Also, guys, I was hoping to crush some hopes and dreams in this thread with >>34516116 and giving the Machine Guards slot to the Horns of Ruin. General view is that we need at least a decent slate of participants to embark on that course. (There's some more discussion going down from there where people question my motives and I give some explanation.)

So what do you guys think? Kill bambi?

I still feel like The Entombed are kinda shit. Someone help me make them less shit.

>>34518937
You might have painted yourself into a corner with them. The concept is good but could be overblown - you can grieve and still have a future, right?

>>34518862
If you're happy with it, I can work that up. Have table-top RP later today and deer to kill right now, so it won't happen for a little while.

>>34518968
Not really. As-is, I doubt they'll make it to the 41st millenium. Only 30% of them are left after Istvaan, and they're literally incapable of recruiting.

>>34518998
Then they don't make it. Have them die out post-heresy. Nothing says a 1st founding legion must survive.
That, or maybe they fall to chaos well after the heresy has ended in a last ditch bid to live.

>>34517730
I enjoyed it also.

Fuck you Kranios, go fuck a mountain!

>>34518998
In that case, you either need to undoom them or give them a glorious death. The former would mean some changes to the story OR another Legion donating geneseed.

>>34518914
I'll go with whatever the majority says,

>>34519038
Or both? Maybe The Entombed are gone and someone else (Knights Draconian?) founds a Successor for guarding their cemetery world?

I have updated my Primarch on 1d4chan

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy#Aubrey_The_Grey.2C_Primarch_of_The_Eternal_Zealots

>>34519021
>>34519038
How big is a Legion?

>>34519150

100,000 Marines+

>>34519150

How many Legions do we have statted up? The Mastadontii are 120,000 wile the Sons of Fire are 150,000.

It had been a long hunt. But it was necessary. As usual, Rogerius had to slow down for the other hunters. They needed to rest, too. But he didn't blame them. But this hunt was important. Three days ago, the Great Bird had been spotted heading in this direction. It was the third such animal seen in as many moons. The hunt was on, and Rogerius had volunteered, lest the beast be hostile. He let the men sit and drink from their skins, they had refilled them this morning, and would reach another stream to refill again before this time next day. After a short rest, they picked back up and continued through the forest.
_______________________________________

The next day, they saw its trail. It was a good thing Rogerius had volunteered. It left a trail of burned trees and bush through the forest, as wide as two men stood tall. With a trail like that, any child could track it. They erred on the side of caution, though, staying within the safety of the bush, but within sight of the trail.
Soon, they came upon a clearing, burned into the ground. The Great Bird sat there, glittering in the sun, while several men dressed in stiff, golden clothes, holding bizarre spears surrounded it. They were large. Each almost as tall as Rogerius, and he was the tallest man of the tribes. The tribesmen fanned out within the bush, waiting for one of the signals. And watched.

>>34519183
So there are 30,000 Entombed remaining after the Heresy. Not actually that bad...

>>34519219
...wow. I got rekd.

>>34519285

All the Loyal Legions at Isstvan V suffered 70-90% Casualties. Of course you got rekd.

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>>34518577
Oh Im gonna stick around with the Augurs as my primaries most assuredly. Still I might want to do a loyalist Chapter as well to even things out. Also thank you, I would like very much the chance to take over the Haruspex.

>>34518937
I can give them a look and maybe help a bit if you want

>>34519150
Depends on the Legion

Pictured, Haruspex Legionnaire, this Astartes has a variation of the red hand motif.

>>34519265
That's actually ridiculous considering how they ALL wear Terminator armor. Or has that changed?

>>34519338
>I can give them a look and maybe help a bit if you want
Please

>>34519265
That's assuming they didn't do any more fighting after Isstvan V.

>>34519370
They do. Perhaps more should die. I had 70% of them dying, but I was thinking in terms of Chapter-scale numbers, not Legion.

>>34519370

If they're ALL in terminator plate, given how rare Terminator Plate was (No Legion had more then a few thousand suits), their numbers would have to be small.

>>34519370
>>34519421
Well, not ALL of them. Every two squads of terminators is supported by either a squad of Centurions, a Dreadnought, or a squad of Tactical Marines and a Thunderfire

File: Rook.jpg (3.53 MB, 2480x3508)

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>>34519454
Still sounds like reinforced Chapter scale

>>34519373
So, a quick thought for you as I examine this.

Perhaps make it so its not quite as hard for them to recuperate losses, maybe it just takes longer for them because of a mutation in the geneseed. Also, perhaps bust out some Iron Hands things and have them use alot of augments.

>>34519473

You are the best drawfag I have ever seen here on /tg/. You seriously are as close to the actual FW gal as humanly possible. Your talents are wasted on us, but thank you anyway. Who's next for you?

>>34519473
...

Well, I did say I wanted to kill bambi, so I still want to bust him down to Successor.

So with all the talk of numbers, what would be a reasonable amount of Cataphracts to be around?

Would twice the normal amount be too much? It'd be more because there are multiple fronts the Cataphracts fight on, such as expanding Alexandri's fiefdom or helping the Great Crusade.

Follow-up question: Could some companies of the Cataphracts be present for the defense of the Sol System, or be fighting elsewhere than the Crucible? I'm just brainstorming.

>>34519473
Feel like taking on Alexandri, drawfag?

>Regal best describes the towering progenitor of the Silver Cataphracts. A huge, flowing brown beard that goes down the front of Alexandri's power armour is a common sight to be seen even when he is on the battlefield. Having spent most of his formative years in regular clothing, Alexandri prefers when not on the Crusade to be wearing something other than his power armor. Despite commonly holding a smile and good humor on his face, Alexandri appears to have weathered the years less than handily when compared to his brothers. Dark circles have burrowed in deep into his eye sockets and many lines have formed on his face. Even specks of grey and white have touched his beard. All this only adds to his appearance as the iron-fisted ruler of Rosskar.

>>34519515
>Also, perhaps bust out some Iron Hands things and have them use alot of augments.

I don't want them to be a tech-focused legion.

>>34519473
Do me!
Harsh looking face, Short black beard, blad head and a massive jagged scar starting in the middle of one of his eyebrows and going all along the one side of his head.

>>34519473
Aw hell. Such good work, but for a Legion that from the general opinion polls, we're going to probably have to cut, unless people have changed their minds from earlier.

>>34519336
I never even made it there, that's the thing.

>>34519542
Fair enough. Maybe cloning then, pull a Corax and experiment with the Geneseed?

>>34519588
I think you should just change the numbers. Sounds like you had Chapter scale in mind at the start.

>>34519591
Well, to put it in gameplay terms, 2+ Armour save and 4+ FNP are nothing to scoff at

>>34519526

Given their attritional warfare, something like 150-160,000 would fit pretty well. Above strength, but not excessively so.

Also this:

Documentary evidence attests that the Silver Cataphracts Legion gene-seed showed an above-average adaptability and rates of implant rejection were notably low, particularly in comparison with difficulties in large scale implantation encountered with other Progenoid types, which meant that despire constant warfare and attrition, their numbers remained high as it was to prove of the highest quality as far as ease of implantation went.

>>34519588

You were hammered in space in the Isstvan System. Still counts though. Yours was another of the legions who suffered at Isstavan, even if not on the ground.

>>34519635
Not sure about going exactly that far now.

That would make me Not-Ultras in terms of geneseed capability. Maybe the gene-seed is lacking a few organs, or maybe alot, maybe even creating inferior if more numerous Marines?

>>34519679
>inferior if more numerous Marines

That triggers some people.

>>34519679

Actually that comes from canon material on the Iron Warriors, which is how they were able to sustain their strength despite the number of Sieges they did. Which fits the Cataphracts to a T. Maybe their Gene-Seed misses something, but it's the best for replacing losses.

>>34519633
I was more meaning to help out with their back story and them trying to make up for their lack replacements.

Longer time for the geneseed to mature both in the Astartes it is harvested from and for it to take in the new recruits, over failure to extract. Because all the extraction is would be the Apothecary removing them.

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>>34519233
>forgot to post pic last post
As they waited, the men seemed to not do much. They stood, sometimes circling the beast. Sometimes they would fiddle with... things... Sometimes, men would enter and exit from the bird...no... that was not right... Rogerius was confused. Eventually, he decided to address them. Sometimes, talking worked better than violence. As he stood and entered the clearing, they lowered their spears in his direction. Their stance was... odd... He raised his hands to demonstrate he meant no harm, as they advanced.
"Hello."
With that, they stopped. They looked, quizzically at him. As a curiosity.
"Hello," he said again, "I am-"
"State your purpose."
Rogerius indicated in the direction of the...bird...
"We came hunting...that..."
More quizzical looks.
"Have you come to pay homage to The Emperor?" asked one.
More appeared from the belly of the beast, all taking the same stance as the first.
"What is The Emperor?"
Before he could reply, a twig snapped in the bush.
The men spurred into action. All of them faster than any other man on Profi Tiroedd, but not Rogerius. As flames exploded from their spears, he charged the closest one, planting his spear firmly through the man's neck. They had not even brought their spears to bear on him as he through a knife through the gaps in another's headdress, and charged a third. He heard a man cry "CLEANSE THEM!" as he rolled behind his target, planting one knife behind the knee. It shattered against the....not clothes... so he tripped the man, and drove his third knife into the face.Pain exploded against his shoulder, and he looked to see a crater as wide as his fist. Drawing his tomahawk, he charged his assailant, knocking him to the ground, and slamming the axe into his chest, where it shattered. His sight went dim and ears rang as a blow landed against his temple. The last thing he remembered before darkness was a voice, one he did not know, yet pulled at his memory, calling "STOP."

>>34519695
...really?

>>34519716
Ah, alright then. But remember the Iron Warriors became heretical and suffered alot of geneseed mutation.

>>34519233
>>34519746
Anyone, does this sound good?

>>34519721
Well, the easier it is for them to get recruits, the less reasonable it is for them all to be terminators.

I know I asked for help and then am refusing to budge on anything, sorry.

>>34519783
>posting in two threads
>have to remove/add name every time I post in either

suffering

>>34519770

Only after they went into the Eye. And your Legion is basically the Iron Warriors meets Russia. You've said so yourself.

>>34519805
Guess you're right.

>>34519662
True.
>>34519622
I was thinking 10,000 to start with.

>>34519783
No worries, its your Legion and I am just throwing out suggestions for you to mull over. The maturing rate of the Geneseed could still be the problem for you.

Perhaps rather than all Terminators, your Legion through a deal with the Admech has obtained a sort of inferior Terminator Armor, so its pretty much Artificer Armor, and then your actual Terminators are like the Grey Knight Paladins.

Whelp, if Roman pops back in tomorrow I should be able to hammer out what idea I had and hand it all back off to him. Until then, its bed time for me.

>>34519770
Really. There was a gigantic shitfest over it with regards to the Nova Defenders.

The prolific geneseed thing makes more sense of Gaspard having Alexandri killed, too.

>>34519858
In all honesty, I thought that was about the size of a Legion, too.

>>34518986
Id be glad to see it done

>>34519473
Damn drawfag, you continue to impress!
At this rate we may have to chain you into the drawfag dungeons for all eternity!hire you as the resident drawfag.

I hope Aubrey is on the list somewhere!

Thankfully [If everyone actually wrote it down on the page]

We have appearance descriptions on the 1d4chan page!

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy#Aubrey_The_Grey.2C_Primarch_of_The_Eternal_Zealots

Oh my, I seem to have linked my own.
Such an accident, I assure you.

>>34519823

Embrace it, there's nothing wrong with cribbing from the canon Legions. The Mastadontii have parts of the Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, Space Wolves and White Scars in them. Iron Warrior and Hand Tanks meets Space Wolf and White Scar tribalism and spirituality.

Plus, who doesn't want a loyal Russian Iron Warrior analogue on their side?

>>34519882
With the other Legions having lost their Primarchs and with the corruption that would soon take place like before finding them, it would only improve the numbers of the Cataphracts in comparison to the other remaining Legions thus giving Alexandri ever increasing power...

Lumey really is a scheming cunt.

>>34519917
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK2lNuiD7gM

>>34519897
>>34519858
Well, the Emperor's Children were never much larger than 30k or so, IIRC.

And the Luna Wolves and Ultramarines I think got close to 250k marines at their peak, too.

So there's a very broad range of Legion sizes, though I think 10k is almost too small to be called a Legion.

>>34519945

It becomes even more funny when the Mastadontii are specifically Kursk and other Russian Front Tank Battle IN SPAAACE, but with the Russians replaced with Inuit/Siberians.

Those two legions really are perfect foes.

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>>34519233
>>34519746
So, because no one's saying anything, I'm assuming this is absolutely perfect, and doesn't need to get changed at all?

>>34519872
Well, as I envisioned it, there would only about ~300 left after Istvaan. There's only a 20% success rate in geneseed recovery. I don't think that's too unreasonable, but it does raise the question of how they'll survive. Their extremely low rate of casualties contributes, but 10 thousand years is a long time. Even if they're usually fighting battles with zero casualties, They only need to lose a few every now and then to fall apart.

Also the recovery chance is in the housing mechanism, not the actual gene seed. It collapses on recovery, destroying the gene seed. Golgothos was offered a recovered STC by Hektor which could fix the flaw and let them replenish their numbers, all they had to do was turn traitor, but Golgothos crushed it and told Hektor to go fuck himself.

>>34519958

Canon Legion Sizes to help everyone out.

Ultramarines - 250,000
Iron Warriors - 150,000 to 180,000
Sons of Horus - 130,000 to 170,000
World Eaters - 150,000
Word Bearers - 100,000 to 150,000
Blood Angels - 120,000
Alpha Legion - 90,000 to 130,000
Night Lords - 90,000 to 120,000
Iron Hands - 113,000
Emperor's Children - 110,000
Imperial Fists - 100,000 - (The Imperial Fists also had the single largest fleet in the Imperium, consisting of 1500+ vessels)
Death Guard - 95,000
Salamanders - 89,000
Raven Guard - 80,000
Thousand Sons - 10,000

>>34520047
>same number as Thousand Sons due to lack of high-population recruiting worlds

No wonder the Heresy hit me so hard.

>>34520047
The smallest of those is 10,000. 70% losses means 3,000. 1/3rd of those are Dreadnoughts, Centurions, or tac marines.

Is 2000 Terminators unreasonable?

>>34520047
Was anything given to the SW, or did Russ just tell everybody to go fuck themselves and get out of his goddamn business?

>>34520090

Space Wolves and Dark Angels haven't got numbers yet.

>>34520047
Alright, so the official numbers of the Cataphracts would be reported at 150,000 Marines.

But the actual numbers would be closer to 190,000 or 210,000 Marines.

>>34520082

Most Legions would have had about that much, so it's not unreasonable.

Also, by Centurions do you mean the Line officers of 30k, or the Derpknights of 40k?

>>34520145
derpknights, heavily armored devestators

>>34520090
No numbers, but I'd bet a dollar for every marine Russ had that he, as usual, gave no shits about records.

>>34520120
Alright, cool. I do remember it saying that the Wolves were one of the smaller legions (funny they're now one of the largest chapters), but was curious if a number had been put out.

tl;dr Russ said fuck you, Johnson said "WHY DO YOU NEED TO SEE MY BOOKS?"

>>34520128

The Lower end of the scale, but yeah.

Now, which Legion is the biggest? Who has the Ultra 250,000+ Numbers?

>>34520024
Well crushing an STC doesnt seem like a good idea. Also if its a problem with the extractor, why is your Legion the only one that has the problem?

>>34520082
Depends, because if your are going with your Legion having more than that before the betrayal then yes, that is.

>>34520128
Seems legit.

>>34520154
>>34520154

You really want the worst fucking thing about 40k Marines in 30k?

Have some of these as well while you're at it.

>>34520175
>Well crushing an STC doesnt seem like a good idea.
Golgothos is not known for having good ideas. He's brutally and stupidly stubborn, and has no social skills, since he spent 30 years in total isolation. Also, Post-Isvaan V, He'd fucking glass Terra itself if he thought Johannes was on it. Thinking about consequences is not his strength.

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>>34520243

Forgot pic.

I love 30k because it has cool shit, and no dumb shit like the Derpknight.

>>34520243
Well what are 30k Centurions?

>>34520243
I dont see what all the hate is for the Centurions, they arent that bad.

>>34520251
Ok then.

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>>34520261
Fuck that shit, dude.

>>34520294
I think when the word Centurion comes up in 30k, it's a rank, not an item or armor.

>>34520371
well... I kinda like 40k centurions

>>34520170
Void Angels are the biggest at the end of the Heresy, but I don't think that would have been true beforehand. Scions are our go-to Ultramarines stand-in.

>>34520385
GASP!

HERESY!

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>>34520294

Captains. Like Praetors are the 30k Chapter Masters.

This should help everyone with Legion organization.

>>34519945
>Lumey really is a scheming cunt.

Not sure I'd even give him scheming. The guy completely screws up before the Heresy and does a pretty bad job during. Killing Alexandri stops Lumey from being seen as too heroic when he turns back from the Rubicon.

>>34520385
Centurions are great in concept. As in, something to fill a gap between dreads and devs. however, the execution...

>>34520489
They look sort of goofy but at least passible. And yeah, in this context I picked them for their concept: heavily armored devestators.

>>34520511

Still, the bulk of your Legion should still be foot soldiers. Maybe in Mk III Plate, but no Legion is all Termies or all devs or all anything really.

>>34520537
Ahem, Raven Wing

>>34520537
This one is. Power Armour marines are tough, but not that tough, and a single casualty on a report is too much for The Entombed.

>>34520557
That is a Company not Legion

>>34520568
Like I suggested, perhaps their basic Marines have a stop gap warplate that is between Power Armor and Terminator Armor.

Then you have Terminators, and Special Terminators ala Paladins. So essentially you'd be Grey Knights with out psychic powers

>>34520568
Honestly, I'm not on a kill everyone streak today, but... how about revisiting the "they're all fucking dead" option? That avoids too many questions about what their organisation was like - yeah, there was a time when people only saw The Entombed as Terminators and Dreadnoughts, but maybe that's just because their heavy elements were distinctive/distinguished?

>>34520557

One Part of a Legion that also had other forces. The Dark Angles had the Deathwing, Dreadwing, Stormwing, Ravenwing and Ironwing. Still didn't make them unbalaced.

>>34520568

No Legion can be so specialized. At least half your Legion would have to be foot troops. Heavy Support units need regular troops as backup of they've be outpaced and destroyed. You're legion is too inflexible as it stands.

>>34520537
To a point, yes, but pre-codex legions basically did a lot of "whatever the hell we want." It was up to the individual Primarchs to design legion makeup as they saw fit, which led to some being organized in extremely different ways...

>>34520611
Im gonna agree, thats what I was trying to say earlier with making it something to do with it just taking longer, so you still have Marines just never as many as the others.

>>34520615
The Entombed don't fight on their own anymore. They supplement other legions as auxiliaries, either helping to fortify positions or dropping drop pods full of terminators and dreads on the enemy.

The only sort of war they'd be able to fight on their own would be a static defense, as they lack any sort of real mobility.

>>34520627

Yeah, but still, there wasn't enough of the specialist equipment to go around. Most Legions were lucky if they had 1000 Terminator suits. Rare as fuck.

I see the Entombed as having a large number of Dreads, Terminator Plated troops and the like, but also lots of MK III Troops to support them.

>>34520668
Pre-Dropsite Massacre. Post, they're so decimated that they can fit all the sits they have left.

>>34520568
>>34520668
Bonus round on "they're dead": The Entombed go down fighting the Necrons, with War Scribes (or WS Successors) as a potential relief force that was never called in.

>>34520690
Oh, yeah, Pre Istvaan they had plenty of tacs, vehicles, etc

>>34520668

Ok, let's make it easier. Everyone, how does your Legions fit into >>34520434 ?

That'll help make things easier to understand.

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>>34520690
>>34520668
Y'all can have my Terminators. Merrill would take one look at them and say "how are we supposed to run in that? Or hide? Or perform just about any of our standard actions? We'll keep those stormbolters, though. Those would be nice."

>>34520702
Please no. They work as a small remnant legion who provides a small company to other legions when they need additional terminators/dreads as shock troops.

>>34520728
I'm not sure that will make things easier right now. Add it to the google doc and the wiki Discussion page and let people think it over.

>>34520765
Well, they're your guys, so I'm not going to force it on you. There's this overwhelming stubbornness about them that should infuse the whole story, start to finish - I just can't avoid the thought that you should add in a conclusive finish rather than have them withering away to nothing.

Other options... by M41, "The Entombed" is just this one guy.

>>34520765
>>34520871
With the Entombed's issues in making new Marines I doubt they would be around by M41

>>34515922

Agressive, in your face air-cav. If you gave frenzon addicted mongols fighter-jets, this is what you'd get. Also conduct void operations.

Air drop tanks for fire support, set up ambushes, but in general, they do bloody close combat, kill everything in sight, and then disappear back into the void.
They use terror tactics, but not to the same degree as the Void Angels.

I'm reborn!! Yes. Indeed.

Anyway, where are we on this >>34518553? Any additions?

Soon we gonna have to root some "inconsistencies".
Also, some Legions might get killed, fair warning.

>>34520996
No, not my Air Cav idea. Seriously though glad someone is using something like it.

>>34521029

Latest Update

Legion Warfare specialization

I) Knights of Justice -
II) War Scribes - Tactical Analysis /Tech Affinity
III) Silver Spears -
IV) Sons of Fire – Purgation/Area Denial
V) Void Angels – Terror Tactics
VI) The Entombed - Auxiliary Shock Troops
VII) Scions of Europa -
VIII) Children of Armok – Manipulation, politics, espionage, and highly informed ambushes/rapid surprise tactical assaults
IX) Horns of Ruin - Demolition
X) The Crusaders - Mechanized Warfare
XI) Wolves of Dawn/Heralds of Hektor – Shock Assault
XII) Life Bringers – Biological Warfare?
XIII) Nova Defenders – Ranged Warfare/Plasma Weaponry
XIV) Black Augurs - Psyker
XV) Barrow Lords – Air Cavalry
XVI) Eternal Zealots - Fast Attack, Medicae and Close Combat
XVII) Gorgers – Bloody Close Assaults
XVIII) Sand Keepers -
XIX) Eyes of the Emperor – Ranged warfare/Artillery Specialists
XX) Iron Rangers – Assault force. Deep strike. Guerilla warfare. Strategic Assets
XXI) Council of Iron -
XXII) Thunder Kings – Protracted Conflicts/Attrition
XXIII) Silver Cataphracts - Masters of Attrition
XXIV) Mastodontii – Armoured Warfare
XXV) Scale Bearers – Jungle Beastmasters
XXVI) Steel Marshalls – Engineering, Techmarines.
XXVII) Stone Men – Deep Strike/Heavy Bombardment

>>34520871
>>34520914
A sufficiently dramatic last stand could be interesting, I suppose.

Alternatively, they could secretly fall to malal, who turns them into not-rubric-marine skeletons locked in their armour, and gives them the ability to fight the Life Bringers for all eternity.

FYI, we are archived.

>>34521093
If there wasnt already a Legion of the Damned like Legion, I'd suggest that

>>34521093
If you do kill them off, I still think you should develop a War Scribes Successor - "Knights Repentant" to watch over Sepulchra for all eternity.

Does anyone know who the drawfag is drawing? I want to go to bed, but I don't want to miss it on the offhand chance he's doing mine.

>>34520996
I think you should be aware that we've been discussing cutting the Barrow Lords down to a Chapter because they don't seem to have a distinct concept of their own. While the tactics don't provide that, the fact that you had to mention another Legion in that description is pretty telling.

>>34521162
No idea. I asked him though, so I'd just get to rest. I'll be on and I'll save it for you if he goes to bed. Sleep well.

>>34521162
Don't worry, if he shows up, we'll drool all over his stuff for you.

>>34521141
I like that. If The Entombed are all dead, their name takes on a whole new meaning.

>>34521162
I'm currently working on Alexandri

>>34521265
Huzzah!

>>34521265
Golgothos drawfaggery would be dope.

>>34521206
>>34521234
Any way to be able to update the archive of this thread, btw?

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>>34521265
This is only image I have that comes close to my excitement.

>>34521265

Awesome. Who will be after that? I saw you had requests for Otztal and Nathanog as well.

>>34521080
Superb. We are getting shit done guys!

Now it's a bit late for me so I will leave the pruning for tomorrow on my side.

Proposed Changes though:

- Remove "Attrition" from the Thunder Kings, conflicts with the Silver Whatever, if the Thunder Kings can justify having the concept we can add it back.

- Remove "Assault Force" from Iron Rangers. Merril, feel free to go at me if it's a problem.

- You can remove the "?" from the Life Bringers.

- Change "Master of Attrition" to "Attrition" for the Silver Whatever.

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>>34521234
>>34521290
This is me every time he posts new work...

Ok, so if The Entombed are to die in a glorious last stand, who should it be against, why, when, and how?

Should any other Legions be fighting with them? I like the idea of a war scribes successor chapter who choose to guard the bodies of The Entombed on sepulchra for all time.

>>34521187
He could lose the terror tactics, because atleast two other Legions have that, and focus on Air Cav operations, specializing in the tactical flexibility offered by the use of their gunships, who also will use tanks on occasion when the need arises.

He could also ad Void Warfare specialists to show their ability in using their Gunships in Ship to Ship boarding actions as well as in taking out both Orbital and Deep Space Stations.

>>34521298
After him I don't know, are those two still active? if not I guess it would be time to start a new order of things

>>34521321
Yeah, we really didn't have a whole lot of assault for the Traitors at the time. What do we have aside from you Khorne fellas for that slot?
Also, lots of Deep Striking Jump Packs kind of needs assault, you know?

>>34521355
Well, I'll also throw my name in the ring, for whenever you've got time. I'd love to see how you portray Arelex.

>>34521355

They are. I am the Otztal Mastadontii Guy, and Nathanog is >>34521321

Oztal is the Inuit Tank Commander, and Nathaog is the hunter Metalocalypse-looking guy.

Also, why have you not drawn any Primarchs in Terminator Plate yet? They're all in Powered armour thus far.

>>34521355
As I said, a drawing of Golgothos' Ossuary dread would be dope

>>34521337
The Gorgers would want nothing with all of you,

you have no meat and stink of death!

>>34521355
Put me in the queue, too.

>>34521387
Hey Oztal, I never got a reply about that writefaggotry I proposed to you. Do you wanna do it or?

>>34521387
I didn't paid much attention to that, I'll check which have terminator plate from now on