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>>34493818

Ok, I need confirmation that the Stone Men were at Isstvan, and another Legion or two for the second wave traitors.

>>34493884
By the way, are there any maps of the orbital combat?

Well I've always based Darius around the idea that his eyes were pure silver that pooled and swirled like a liquid metal but was blind because of this, So he had to really embrace his psychic abilities to make due.

Fourth for Argent Legion be ded.

>>34493871
I think the Voidwatcher would be cool with a third eye, or at least perhaps an ornate tattoo of one.

>>34493948
I genuinely dont wanna burst bubbles - but that would be like a mutant - and the Emperor would probably quietly expunge you from all records...

Same + thricefold for the actual third eye if you werent a navigator.

>>34493964
Aaaaand disregard this, I see how that's something between the Voidwatcher and Darius. When came back into the thread, I somehow missed all that.

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>>34493511
>hard to control
They never denied the call to arms, always supporting the expedition fleets and the Crusade when needed.
>independent
Well fuck ya got me there!
>Alexandri would probably be bitter at being passed up for Warmaster
Actually, I think I'll have to state an argument for the opposite. He'd be happy not to be saddled with the responsibility of the post and time consuming duty of running the Crusade 24/7. Also, Alexandri doesn't exactly like leading less-than-totally-loyal troops. Men who openly disagree with him? Fine. People who legitimately hate him and the things he stands for? Less than good. He'd also probably not trust himself not to wipe out several Legions on a whim because of his own blatant hatred for them.

So yeah, he'd think nothing of it. What will piss him off immensely though is all the Primarchs who are assholes at the council Looking at you Lumey..

>>34493700
THE COUNCIL OF NIKAEA ALLEGIANCES INDEX

Pro-Psyker Party:
Alexandri, Primarch of the Silver Cataphracts.
Aubrey The Grey, Primarch of the Eternal Zealots
Darius Cyaxares, Primarch of the Sand Keepers.
Rook North, Primarch of the Nova Defenders
Tollund, Primarch of the Mastodontii.
Tiran, Primarch of the Scale Bearers.
Voidwatcher, Primarch of the Black Augurs.

On The Fence Party:
Brennus of the Thunder Kings
Merrill, Primarch of the Iron Rangers
Inferox the Burned King, Primarch of The Sons of Fire.
Kleisthenes, Primarch of the Scions of Europa
Kranios, Primarch of the Horns of Ruin.
Octullus Tyran, Primarch of The Eyes of the Emperor?
Uriel Starikov, Primarch of the Children of Armok.

Anti-Psyker Party:
Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes.
Gaspard Lumey, Primarch of The Void Angels.
Hektor Cincinnatus, Primarch of the Wolves of Dawn.
Nathanog, Primarch of the Gorgers.
Sebastian Rex, Primarch of The Bulwark.

And in other news, I updated the story I wrote in a sleep haze.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy#Roses_Crush_The_Best

Cont. from last thread
>>34493507
Hektor had been waiting for him at his tent. He let off an exasperated sigh, "I haven't slept in weeks, the battle is over, can I just rest a moment?"
"Don't worry, consider this a courtesy call. I just wanted to greet your return to your brothers."
"My 'brothers' are bickering about trifles. I want to sleep."
"Do not be resentful of them, Rogerius. I know how hard this campaign was for you, and many do not or will not, but do not lessen your brothers' sacrifices and hardship. They may have had the comforts of armor, trenchlines, and places to rest, but they fought just as long and hard as you did, if not more so, in some cases."
The words were like a slap across the face.
"Hektor, you are right, as always. Forgive me, I just need to rest."
"It's not my forgiveness you need. We all have our moments, and I know how you feel. You don't seek glory, you seek an end."
He went to leave, and turned at the flap of the tent, smiling.
"Just...don't start any fights tomorrow. The last thing I need in a crowded warcamp full of Imperial Army, Remembrancers, and Beurocrats is a fistfight between Primarchs. You could accidentally level half the camp."
Merrill sat for a moment, laughing at the thought

>>34493999
Wait, oh crud. How mutant am I, then?

>>34493833

As a suggestion for development with the Children, maybe their 'false flag' and 'deniable assets' stuff grew out of working alongside the Void Angels? When Gaspard is around to be the terror, Uriel doesn't need to do it in-house.

Whether picking the Eternal Zealots as the heretic legion was based on opportunism, the belief that the Void Angels would be too obvious, or just respect for Lumey can be an open question.

Well I explained in my history that it wasn't an actual mutation, but caused from him opening his eyes in pure warp. Besides the emprah allowed Sanguinus with his damn wings in and kept Angron with his butcher nails.

Hmmm Voidwatcher, I say we make a compromise. Since you got the pyramid eye as your symbol you can keep the 3rd eye, I really just want the magic infused eyes bit since it was the focus of Darius's design. That way you don't really have to change your cool portrait that much. I've already been stewing most of the day on Darius's new appearance so its fine.

>>34493999
Vulkan/Magnus the Red

>>34493948
>>34493964
I can relinquish the third eye business. I just don't know what to put in it's place. Any suggestions? There should be a centerpiece to the whole character. Maybe he has eyes of Ra on over his eyes.

Sorry again for stealing your thunder Darius.

>>34494039
Superspooky eyes made of liquid metal or swirling colors or whatever are pretty mutated.

That's why I suggested a simple 3rd eye. A significant mutation, to be sure, but perhaps one that the Emperor could at least tolerate for a time.

Magnus used the Warp to subtract one, maybe you picked one up as your capsule fell through the Warp, who knows.

At least that was my thought, anyway.

>>34494118
Dunno if having scales on me is more mutant than that.

>>34494118
Wait, goddamnit, I got mixed up who I was talking to.

Fuck. You guys get what I'm saying though.

Anyway I require sleep. And so I shall plot for 2 more hours so that I finally can.

Try to not do the whole physical mutations route - the emperor wouldnt let it fly - besides having magicky eyes/being blind and magic is a bit cliche.
Why not just have a piercing/unnerving gaze?
sometimes the most powerful descriptors are those that are simple and not overwrought with metephors and visual stimuli..

>>34494039
what are you like? If you say dragon wings, i legit wont know how to react.

>>34494043
yeah that makes sense. Although out of second nature we'd probably do it a bit, but we have a suitable asset to do it for us in your legion, so im happy to let that run, and we accrue all the accurate to the minute intel on targets.

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>>34494034

>>34494173
No dragon wings, just some scales on arms, legs, and back.

Also no fire breath.

>>34494118
Hell, a certain Primarch had wings. Fucking wings. That worked. I think a third eye would be fine.

>>34494034
Yo, I changed my mind on Hektor. He's now On the Fence publicly.

>>34494089
Alright. I'll agree to give up my special eyes. I think the real issue is two characters having eye symbololgy/traits at all. Which is a serious issue because both our characters designs revolve around it.

>>34494198
Personally, I think so too, so long as it wasn't shooting rainbow beams of Warp energy, or capable of firing lasers or something.

Literally just a 3rd human eye.

>>34494173
ignore - do what you want with physical appearance. Just dont go fucking overboard with it i guess.

>>34494217
>>34494231
>>34494246
He could just have a permanent thousand-yard stare. Like you never get the feeling he's really looking at you, he's just gazing at some point far behind you

>>34494217
Unrelated to the Conversation, but are Captains in the Black Augurs also Librarians or Psykers?

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In the meantime, have my attempt at a Termie.

>>34494268
That works too. Some sort of unnerving look.

>>34494268
I like it. I like it a lot.

Also, who will be talking to whom at Ullanor before the mass gathering?

>>34494272
Yes. Even if he's looking or speaking directly too you he's not looking at you in any sense. I like it. I like it a lot.

>>34494272
Two things dude. Yes they all are. It's mandatory for becoming one. And two, Vates forfeit actual names and only take titles. Things like "The Herald" or "The Aethershaper" One word titles that describe them or their abilities.

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So, perhaps so we can all understand better our opinions of one another, perhaps we can all take turns talking about a certain Primarch, how their own Primarch and legion thinks of their Primarch and Legion?

I think we should start with Arelex Orannis, Primarch of The War Scribes.

Alexandri appreciates Arelex, but dislikes his Legion's clear failure to achieve their true potential as demi-gods of the battlefield using technology and intelligence to rule the day. He is quite happy with his brother though, hating him the least. This never stops Alexandri from attempting to offer his Legion's services to aid the War Scribes, even going so far as to offer the assistance of the Strelky during his campaigns.

Secretly Alexandri envies Arelex for being able to do what he always wanted, without a bloody revolution that keeps trying to kill him and threatens his family constantly.

>>34494212
Got ya.

>>34494277
Green and gold/yellow, with a splash of blue. Not bad.

It's hard to go green + yellow well, but this is pretty solid.

>>34494277
Do you have a regular scheme worked up? I just don't want things to get confusing with >>34493507 (pic related)

>>34494217

So its agreed, you get cool 3rd eye magical tattoos and I get special spooky eyes. I think having 2 eye themed symbology might not be too bad if we flesh it out enough. We both based our legions around divination and sorcery. Darius is more about fate and the bigger picture, hes good at strategy but can't into tactics since hes blind. Voidwatcher seems more pinpoint and precise and his legion reflects this with their hit and run tactics.

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>>34494449
As a matter of fact, yes.

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>>34494371
Sure. Lumey doesn't really have anything against Arelex.

And by that, I mean that he's been caustic, sometimes even abusive, in their private discussions, while publicly castigating the War Scribes for meddling with misunderstood technology and toting around precious scientific relics rather than consigning them to study for the benefit of all.

>>34494459
Okay, I withdraw my previous statement, I think it's just how this all looks on the BC painter, I just didn't want two Legions with almost identical color schemes. Might get too easy to confuse things.

>>34493818
So what legions are unattended? I want to get into this.

>>34494499
Yeah, BC Painter can do this sometimes.

>>34494482
To add to that, I think the Void Angels and War Scribes haven't had much to do with one another, mainly because the 'Scribes get shot up so bad in the Heresy and aren't often in need of being kicked about. Come to think of it, the Void Angels would be legion-most-likely to help the Scribes against the AdMech.

>>34494371
his scars and charred skin are the mark of a working man.
I approve of his diligence and hard work
why he would risk his life for knowledge is a little nutty to onyx.

>>34494371
From what I can tell, Merrill likes Orannis. They both have a desire to better use tech and achieve a greater universe with it. As he starts getting corrupted, he may resent him more and more, for not taking it far enough. However, they are opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to strategic thinking, so it would probably wind up being more of a friendly rivalry early on. Gtg for a bit, be back in an hour or so...

>>34494514
Otherwise I'm liking the idea of some warp terror loyalists. Spectral Terminators and all that.
Believe they are the true terrors of the warp, from a region that kept warp tech, but did things like make gargoyles to frighten away the daemons.
Believe in channeling the beast within.

>>34494530
Thought we were going around doing things post-Heresy.

I mean, since the Void Angels were basically unscathed by the Heresy, I suppose they can do more than one thing. Still, I'd like it if after the Void Angels support at Saturn they go hunting traitorous Thunder Kings alongside the loyal ones.

>>34494371
Tiran respects Arelex's intelligence, but doesn't find any major common interests with him. They both fight for the Emperor, but beyond that, Tiran sort of just shrugs.

>>34494566
Don't have the word Terminator. Spectral Terminator legion Terminators doesn't really make sense.

>>34494451
It is done. I like this compromise quite a bit. Thanks.

>>34494566
>>34494627
Oh fuck. Is that not your name? I thought it was but I reread it and it might not be so now I'm worried I seem like a fucking dingbat.

>>34494589
I think the Void Angels are everywhere except Earth after the Heresy. (Depending on how bad the other Legions get hit, the Angels might be - briefly - as big as everyone else put together!) Lumey can only be in one place at a time, but it's probably impractical for him to hang out with Brennus anyway. I should detail a Void Angel Captain to be the go-between during those campaigns.

>>34494627
Was thinking of terminators with camo cloaks or psyker witch stealth terror and deep striking.
Else I can do marines.

>>34494368

Ok.

So, The Bloodseer or The Executioner

>>34494674
Fair warning, my Not!Space Wolves are already doing Loyalist terror on a grand scale. Admittedly we don't sneak around that much. (It's important for morale that people understand why these atrocities take place.)

>>34494671
Sure, just give me a name and I'll pen him in once I get to it.

>>34493884
Eyes of the Emperor were there, acting as Traitors

>>34494679
Both are very encroaching on other primarchs' themes.

Might want to get away from Blood or Downright killing.

At the very least Executioner.

Or the "Shaper", this one seemed nice/

>>34494647
Hahaha. Makes a bit more sense.

Nah, I think they'd probably be something more akin to Void Wraiths or something.

Perhaps a dark ancient near eastern theme going on, but I'm not sure.---By which I mean the whole Phoenecian thing going on with child sacrifice to Moloch, a bit of Lovecraft reconfiguring of Dagon, and a darker take on Sumerian culture, but with a shamanistic overlay. So star-ship nomads, with near eastern gloss, and shamanistic tendencies.

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Good hustle with the replies there. You guys want to switch to talking about the Voidwatcher now?

Also, my attempt at a Cataphracts terminator. Since the Terminator is so damn huge and bulky, I imagine the Cataphracts go for full psychological effect with inverted coloring to bright colors.

>>34494708
Yeah, we're the legion that you never see. I'll have to drop the use of Void. Terminators seemingly walk silently from the walls, projecting warp terrors into the minds of their victims and vanish as suddenly.

>>34494773
Which Primarchs have titles? I dont see any listed on the wiki.

>>34494758
Captain Parris Herriot. Wonderful orator (although he does give feel-good speeches, unlike Lumey), maybe considered a bit lazy.

>>34494833
Wraith Lords?
Wraith Knights?
Masters of Wraiths?
Wraithkin?

>>34494819
Maybe... maybe.

Also, I like that termie.

So, trying to decide between two hair styles for Darius. Either long black hair with one side shaved like Skrillex, or a pony tail with both sides of his head shaved like an Undercut. Thoughts?

>>34494782
Near eastern? Thats pretty cool. So your going for a sort of empire like the bulworks or are you more of lotd kinda guy

>>34494854
>Wraithlords
>Wraithknights

I BET THE ELDAR DID THIS

>>34494854
Yeah, I like a lot of those, but thus far the Eldar have taken ever one. I was thinking Wraith Guard at first >_<

Perhaps Phantom?
The Phantom Crown.

That's kind of a cool name.

>>34494371
>>34494482
>>34494550
>>34494530
>>34494563
>>34494623

Thanks for the comments guys. I'll try to work in some of that into Arelex's bio tomorrow.

>>34494864
Undercut.

>>34494850
Octullus title is the all seeing, but i keep forgetting to add it

>>34494773
>>34494850

On which note . . has anyone given any thought to what their Primarch's "purpose" was, by the Emperor's design?

You know, they make allusions throughout the HH series that Russ was intended to be the Emperor's executioner, Magnus was meant to sit the Golden Throne, one was destined to be the Emperor's statesman, one to be his storm trooper, one to lead his armies, and so on. Horus was always destined to be Warmaster.

So, in our AU, who was meant to be what?

having given it some thought, I think that Brennus' purpose was likely to be some sort of Grand Magistrate or perhaps Judge. It fits his overall personality of passionless efficiency, impartiality, and placidity. Doubtless he would have excelled in the role of administrator, were he ever given a chance to actually perform it, and his experience as Alessia's ruler was likely much more fulfilling than any amount of warfare ever was. It's likely that it was for this reason that he seemed perpetually weary and somewhat solemn, performing his duty well but without any great drive or ambition.

It's an interesting note. I think his greatest failing is likely in failing to recognize ambition or great passion in others, and in perhaps being too assured of his particular brand of loyalty and unity. He overlooked his traitorous sons, did not see in them the ambition which would inevitably corrupt them, and so let the cancer fester and spread.

(shamelessly repeating myself because I like this question)

>>34494679
>>34494773
>>34494850
He's not a Primarch. He's the captain of the Haruspex company of the Black Augur, who discern the future from blood and gore being spilled and the carnage of battle. Hence the names.

>>34494850
Not really titles, but themes.

Blood is like what everyone and their mothers want their legions to be about most of the times, so avoid it, too common.

Same with Executioner.

Both are waaaaaayyyy too common and boring.

But hey, if you really want it, go for it

>>34494901
You already know what I'm going to say to this one.

>>34494876
Phantom Knights
Phantom Sentinels
Wraith Sentinels

Anything but Phanton Crowns that just sounds stupid.

>>34494871
ELDAR TRICKERY IS AT FOOT

>>3449486
A bit of both oddly enough. The culture Sargon Ereskigal grew up in was star ship based, so he sees a strong navy as critical to the survival of the empire. Sort of like the fists in that regard, but instead of terrestrial fortresses, the emphasis is on manouver warfare with sudden, brutal strikes of massive star-ships and star-forts.

>>34494903
Ah,... my bad then.

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>>34493907

Yep. Right here.

>>34494925
Ooh, how about The Erlkonigen?

And it would just be Phantom Crown. Singular. Warriors of the Phantom Crown, or something.

>>34494901
I... am not sure what purpose Tiran was to serve. The most obvious idea would be his being intended to tame the wild worlds where no hostile xenos roamed but dangerous beasts roamed free. Who knows, maybe he was supposed to make sure people could live comfortably on worlds like Catachan.

That'd be too easy, though...

>>34494901
The Gorgers are the Vanguard and Ambushers. They hunt the enemy trying to get the first strike and then go deep in melee.

And if they win they get better at dealing with that particular enemy.

>>34494850

Darius has a bunch of titles. His most common one is "Silver-eyes" since thats his most distinguishing people and what people notice from afar. His second one is "The Prophet-King" though thats mostly by people from his home world and within the legion. Between his brothers and other legions he is usually referred to as "The Sphinx" due to his personality.

>>34494901
Brennus and Bohemond seems to step on each other's toes when it comes to be the great dispensers of justice.

>>34494901
Perhaps the all seeing eyes were made to look for chaos? They lack/resist some of their brainwashing, and have minor telepathic powers, plus they fit the tactics needed to be good assassins, and their hard coded fear, brotherly openess and paranoia helps report back to other marines for help.

>>34494947
Aw sweet. Maybe the intercept happened in orbit around Istvaan II and that's why Tiran never made it to Istvaan V? Which of the Traitors would have ships there, though?

>>34495012
In private writings and discussions with his lieutenants, Gaspard refers to Darius as "the only one I can trust".

>>34494765

Aren't they listed as loyalists?

>>34494992
If you guys actually could breath fire you would be the shock troop. Flying in at the decisive moment through fast attack vehicles and then SCORCHING the enemy.

>>34495052
I was suggesting to Merrill (Iron Rangers) that you two could bump into each other on the way to Istvaan and fight a running battle half-way across the galaxy. He thought it had potential, but don't feel constrained.

>>34494901
Well, in my head, Arelex was meant to be the one to lead the Imperium's technological advancement, and he was supposed to see to the boring details of Imperial administration at the Emperor's side.

Once the galactic conquest was finished, Arelex would have been responsible for making sure that Humanity returned to the power and strength of the past golden eras.

He was never meant to be a friend maker or a warrior, he was meant to be the kind of man who would see all of Humanity as his younger brothers and sisters, and be a governor who would work as the Emperor's chief administrator for the good of Humanity.

Ideally, the perfect government, one that had no need of worldly rewards or temptations, whose sole happiness would come from a properly functioning Imperium.

Not the most exciting life, but someone's got to do it.

>>34495086
I think he had it so Hektor threatened to wipe them all out if they didn't fight with the Traitors? Not sure.

>>34494922
What are you going to say?

Some might be new to the thread or might not have been there when you said it.

>>34495045
I think it different forms. Bohemond seems to be an active force of it, more of an enforcer or an Arbitrator. Judge, Jury, and Executioner, all that. I reckon Brennus to be more the sort to sit and listen calmly, hearing out both sides of a dispute evenly before making any approximate judgement. That doesn't seem to me like Bohemond's modus operandi, as he has a more fixed sense of what is right and what is wrong.

>>34495086
They were originally coerced into helping the traitors, as they were placed inbetween the traitors, and being a less than brave legion, accepted the Traitors deal

>>34495114

It lists them as loyalists all the way through. Fighting on Mars and other places.

>>34495103
That could work, that could work.

>>34494901
Johannes was probably meant to be a sort of uplifter, the guy who pushes towards advancement and keeps the countless individual sectors within the Imperium relatively close to the average in terms of advancement. Hence being helpful and good at research.

>>34495134

How would they ever be redeemed? Those Legions decimated at Isstvan would hate them forever, even if they did swap sides to the Emperor's side.
Octallus would be tried by his brother Primarchs for his part in aiding the traitors.

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Right how does my new and improved colour scheme look? From left to right it's the Wolves of Dawn, the Heralds of Hektor and the Heliotaroi (Hektor's personal guard).

>>34495110
kind - technology - administration

That's a lot, you might be losing focus here.

I think you should drop the kind aspect, Arelex see things in a rational, logical way. Numbers and facts, no mercy because mercy is unfair to those you choose not to pardon.

>>34495183
Seems legit to me.

>>34495059

*Bro fist bump*

>>34495183

I thought the Heliotaroi were all gold with some grey trim, like the Justaerin were all black with red trim. You said they 'shone in the sun' after all.

>>34495169
I'd thought you guys would end up being the Medics nd Bio-Magus of the Imperium.

>>34495130
So you are The Policeman, he is The Judge.

It works!

>>34495232
That was my original idea, should I change it back? I didn't do it cause I thought they might look like the Custodes.

>>34494819
Talk about me? Why what about? This is like when you hear people talking about you from across the room and all you catch is your name.

>>34495271

Maybe that's deliberate. They compete with the Custodes over who does their job better, and after the betrayal are the dark mirror of the Custodes, their opposites.

>>34495198
No, not kind, exactly. More like how modern politicians take the public's money and abuse their position.

Arelex was supposed to be a politician who felt loyalty to the Imperium above loyalty to himself. This is still the grimdarkness of 40k, it would not have been kind, but hopefully it would have been as fair and workable as possible.

Does that clarify things?

>>34495114
Thats exactly what happened it went kinda like this

Hektor: Oh hey Octullus, hows it going buddy?
Octullus : Pretty good i guess.. uh.. why are you aiming your guns at our brothers?
Hektor:Uh..Well, about that. Were going traitor, winner takes all, wanna join?
Octullus: i dunno..
Hektor:Oh thats cool. Mind telling me your neck size? I want a proper noose so that you can watch me kill your sons one by one
Octullus: Uh, sons...move our cannons to the coordinates
Hektor:Smart Choice

>>34495175
>Eyes of the Emperor reluctantly deploy with the traitors
>wait a second, what's up with those guys, they don't look well
>hold on, brother, just WHAT is WRONG with them, why do those elite squads look like mutated monsters? what's up with those stinking things in power armor, are they even still alive?
>THEY ARE DOING WHAT TO WHO?!!!
>NOPE, we're getting out of here
>everyone evac, fire on Hector's troops while retreating

>>34495271

Eh I like your black primary better. They have enough gold to shine in the sun, plus you can just say they polished their armor really fucking well. Also that color scheme makes it easier to transition into chaos terminators

>>34495298
Yeah sounds good actually.

>>34495130
>>34495264

Ugh it's the opposite, you are the Judge, he is the Policeman...

That's a problem because in the writefaggotry he did the guy of the Knights of Justice was specifically playing the role of a Judge not an Enforcer at any moment.

>>34495304

That still means you have to account for this >>34495175

I'm all for putting them there, but even if later they see how Hektor has been eaten by the Warp and the Chaos Gods and switch sides, they won't be trusted by most of the other loyalists and will suffer as a result.

>>34495291
We just did a "What do you think about Darius?" thing, so the proposal is to talk about Voidy now.

Lumey actively hates The Voidwatcher and - especially at Nikaea - finds himself drawn to oppose the Black Augurs out of that sentiment alone.

>>34495198
(Basically, a High Lord who wasn't a self-centered, corrupt little shit. More of a functional government machine doing the Emperor's will than anything else, so that the Emps could have more freedom to do the high-level things he needed to do instead of worry about what Subsector Bumfuck wanted today.)

>>34495175
Most of his brother legions do hate them, but due to saving the Ad mech multiple times and some STC fragments, they pulled some strings and got them declared forgiven. They are sort of the dogs of ad mech.

>>34495329
Well, I haven't thought about it very much. It's possible there's some overlap, though, yeah. I'll think on it some more; perhaps just a general administrator fits better, in which case.

>>34495299
Yeah, I kinda see. So he ensures the taxes are paid pretty much and would never ever pick "his part" in the treasury.

It also works.

He would literally have been the Supervisor of the Imperium.

>>34493818
So Ladies and Gents, I haven't chimed in a while.

I would like some praise/criticism.

What do you think of my legion and my primarch?
What can be improved.
What stories can be told?
And which Primarchs would be likely to like/hate him during the great crusade?

>>34495316
Well I could have it as a gold main colour with a deep black secondary then during or after the heresy they flip it opposite to be the opposite of the custodes.

>>34494988
The Kadoshim Hashm'yam are a civilization of voidsmen, a people of merchants and explorers, all too familiar with the horrors of the warp and xenos.
Sargon Ereskigal's capsule was found drifting in the void by Enki-esem-esem of the Mesh-bar-gir-gal Guild.
He was raised by the Guild, trained in the ways of void raiding, trading, and in stealth and honor, the two faces of Kadoshim warfare.
He showed the usual primarch technological aptitude, repairing ship systems long in disuse.
Upon the death of Enki-esem-esem, Ereskigal became Tophet, eventually uniting the Guilds under his banner, becoming the first Lugal-dumu-nin.

Insert emperor meeting story here.
Perhaps they hear stories of a mighty man, who boards the ship, and Ereskigal goes to investigate and they wrestle, ala Gilgamesh.

The Kadoshim accepted the Emperor as the High Tophet and Kahn (Kohen).

>>34495310
You don't get away from Chaos that easily.

Hector can't be that much of a fool to let them go that easily.

>>34495239
That's kind of an AdMech thing for the most part, you don't make a legion of warriors to heal people. If anything, the original purpose would be keeping shit running, countering disease outbreaks and preventing riots during them, fixing environmental damage caused by enemy attacks, preparing new regions for colonization, that sort of thing. Essentially just keeping the Imperium together.

>>34495379
You know, if we're going with Lumey having the last legion standing, it might help if he's relatively well-disposed to Octullus. Any suggestions on why? Octullus does seem like one of the less-ambitious Primarchs, which certainly helps.

>>34495183
>>34495411
I like the colors, but your Elite Guards colors match those of the Black Augurs.

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>>34495093
NEXT PRIMARCH UP FOR DISCUSSION!

Kleisthenes, Primarch of The Scions of Europa!

Alexandri sees Kleisthenes as an equal in many ways, but comes slowly to hate his brother from his idealism and lack of hardship. Everything from his friendships to his conquest of his homeworld, went smoothly. Even meeting with the Emperor for the first time went without a complication to speak of! This coupled with the blatant martial pride of his Legion brought at first a wonderful friendship to become bitter and filled with hate.

Still, Alexandri wept for his brother when arriving upon Terra, having failed to arrive sooner and perhaps change the outcome. Perhaps things could have been better, perhaps...

Also initiate scheme.

>>34495291
We're just talking about what we think of different Primarchs and their Legions one at a time so we can get a great understanding of what everyone thinks of each other.

>>34495383
I think you just to discuss this with the Knights of Justice anon. The problem is that I haven't seen him around in ages...

>>34495345
That's basically how its going down. Everyone hates them, but they survive still. Most Istvaan legions will open fire on them if they come within the same sector

>>34495394
Pretty much. The Emperor would have been the head cheese, and his face would be on the coins, but when it came to the bureaucracy, it was going to be Arelex's show.

He'd be like the Imperial Vizier or Adjutant or something, only *without* the traditional betrayal of the king, because he was programmed not to have such ambitions.

Unfortunately, that's also why he was so much more disinterested in the Great Crusade than the other Primarchs.

Of course, the Emperor recognized that he couldn't have it both ways, so he just sucked it up and told Arelex to move as fast as he could. Breaking that tool would have cost the Emperor much more in the long term than a few extra planets would gain him in the short term.

And after all, there were so many other, more aggressive Primarchs to give glory to. What was the harm?

>>34495458
>>34495395

Do we agree Kleisthenes is next for discussion.

I kinda think we should focus on the Zealots first, there is a lot of things to shape.
That plus the Life Bringer is here, perfect opportunity to have them both exchange.

>>34495458
Tiran didn't speak much with Kleisthenes, but their interactions were usually pleasant.

>>34495426
Perhaps, give me a second to read up on your legion. Maybe we talk the ad mech into giving you some extra shippments off stuff?

>>34495416
The whole idea is that the Eyes didn't fall at all. No Chaos worship or anything, just some assistance to their brothers, until they see what became of them and get the fuck out of there.

File: Heliotaroi.jpg (67 KB, 400x500)

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Right how does this look for the honor guard instead?

>>34495516
We're discussing already established fluff, not writing new stuff.

So what does everyone think of me? Only two people commented on it and I feel like my legion might be a hot button for people based on it's Pysker stuff.

>>34495516
It could wait.

But I'd queue myself for next in discussion.

>>34495536
Nah, trading favours is too weak. The Primarch's relationships are all about personal psychology.

>>34495553
I know Tiran would find the Voidwatcher to be 3spooky.

>>34495545
Well THIS should more than the central point about them.

Having participated to the early Massacres of the Heresy and managing to get out of the Traitors side.

First, the Second Betrayal would have to been done really early in the Heresy. Else Hector would have just made them taste some Chaos and get them addicted.

Second, the Loyalist would not just go "Oh you killed some of ours and went Traitor, but now you regret... it's okay come here"

The Eyes would pretty much ahve to go Dark Angels, being obliged to bear the sin for the rest of times.

>>34495551
Not sure it's a good idea, to be honest.

File: SilverSpearsIconConcept.jpg (17 KB, 352x344)

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A Concept sigil for the Silver Spears

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I don't hate these colours, but they need work. Am I treading on anyone else's toes with this general look?

>>34495426
Okay how about this: You helped my legion escape from the Traitors, and in return, my legion got some you some fancy toys. Perhaps our Primarchs fought with each other extensively during the crusade, and our primarchs began to bond, plus you vouched for my legion?

>>34495663
Why not, exactly? It helps us expand our understanding of each other's Primarchs by elaborating upon opinions only off-handily referenced.

>>34495553
Basically, as it's currently written on 1d4chan, you are everything Arelex hates. Warp things, unexplainable things, illogical things all unnerve him to his very core, and he'd stay away from you like a Farseer would back away from a Culexus assassin.

Even if you were the nicest dude ever, it would be like oil and water, he *could not* tolerate your presence.

>>34495458
Arelex would have been very impressed with Kliesthenes' empire building. The way he was such a savant in aspects of civilization and civilized life would have pleased Arelex, and it's likely that Arelex would have tried to offer assistance to the Scions of Europa, perhaps offering them a relic or two as a sign of friendship.

Arelex would probably have talked at length with Kleisthenes on the proper ways to run a planet, and debated the finer details of Imperial administration.

Odds are they wouldn't have met in person very often, as it sounds like Kleisthenes would have been at the leading edge of the Great Crusade, whereas Arelex lagged behind, hunting treasures of antiquity near the Galactic Core.

>>34495553
Merrill has an uneasy relationship with the Voidwatcher. He appreciates his gifts and abilities, but in person, he doesn't seem to get along too well, mostly because of the Voidwatcher's distant nature.
Basically, he'd invite him to dinner, but wouldn't exactly offer up a guest room to spend the night.

>>34495631
I've been trying to work up to that. Plus it wasn't just that they shoed up to help, they brought STC fragments to their good buddies the admech. I've been trying to flesh them out a little so they are more than the DA "SHHH, WE HAD HERETICS"theme

>>34495716
Both your Primarch are based on Roboute, so I can see why you would have affinities.

But thus there need to be differences that would make Arelex go "This and this are lacking in your designs and laws Kleis" and Kleis responds "Yes, maybe it's not optimal but happiness/pleasure/epicurism".

>>34495458
Johannes wished Kleisthenes to be more cautious, believing the Scions die needlessly one too many times. Pointing that out, he would nonetheless commend the bravery of his legion.

>>34495553
Johannes would respect the Voidwatcher's ability, but he is distrustful of psychic stuff. Would probably think it's only a matter of time before the Voidwatcher goes mad from his visions and be rather tense in his company.

>>34495411
Sargon was united with his Legion, naming them the wraith...

The changes to the legion were at first not readily visible. The legion had been long been void oriented, with all the mariner's supsersitions that usually entails. However, Kadoshim atropaic signs soon began to appear. Star ships had eyes painted upon their prows.
Bridges soon had the bearded djinn of mythos appearing on their statues. Curled beards became popular amongst the crews. The tale of the mariner also quickly spread, an ancient epic about a man who was blown off course by a warp storm after a long war, and his many adventures on the way home. This tale, with its gods and heros was in many ways central to Kadoshim life, in particular, its approach to the terrors that ply the spaces between the stars.

This tradition taught that the habitable spaces were far and few and the dangers great. The truth of reality was darkness. But from the void came many things. From it came the screaming daemons that sometimes intruded on ships, but also from it came the gift of navigation and psykers.
The dark was a place of danger, but also of opportunity for a wise and worthy warrior, provided they could master the monster within.
The Kadoshim did not believe their ancient stories, but they were important none the less.
They said that the gods had tried fashioning man, Dagon, the fish man, had made them in the form of terrible beasts, full of a raging hunger and ferocity.
The other gods were horrified, and wished to destroy it, but Dagon said that alone among the gods, he and his brother Yam were from the void and knew the terrors that waited there. Man would have to be a monster if it was to survive amongst monsters.
However, the Ba'al Hadam (Who was later to be identiified with the god emperor) said that if they were to be worthy of existence, they must be more than monsters, and so clothed humanity in their sacred and fair form.
Thus it was that humanity was made.

>>34495631
And yeah, they left fairly soon after Istvaan, when the first bits of chaos started popping up

>>34495701
The problem is, Lumey is suspect himself so he can't exactly say, "Nah, they're cool guys!" to cleanse your legion. About the best he can do is take the position after Terra, "Well, I'm not hunting them down and I think anyone doing so has missed the point."

>>34495782
Have the Heresy be assumed, but then leading to some animosities with some of the more puritan legions like the Knights of Justice, who would you to atone for your sins regardless of the help.

Pretty much, the Eyes would have to be ever watchful, even of their own side WHILE trying to still help the Emperor and putting their sharpshooting to the task by doing more than their share in the War.

>>34495789
Certainly there would be differences. It's just that it's quite late where I am, and I haven't the energy to hash out a lot of fine details right now.

I'm thinking of having the sons of fire be the nemesis of my chapter.
they would be the one behind the burning of neolithus, and the primary combatants (other than the silver spears) at Istvaan
plus the idea of fire vs. stone is a cool dichotomy

>>34495458
Kleithsenes is brash and headstrong, without appreciation for the subtltey of the Rangers. Most likely to develop into bickering and possibly fistfights/brawls at various points. It's not to say he dislikes his brother, they just don't get along.

>>34495553
The Voidwatcher is counted in the column of 'least hated' by Alexandri. He is a man of exceptional cunning who arose from an aristocratic society akin to Alexandri's own. He views his sorceries as 'a front for humanity which few have the bravery to expand into'. This perhaps places Alexandri as one of Voidwatcher's few geniune allies, who appreciates his arcane background.

That is why the betrayal brought in the wake of the heresy only brought Alexandri further into depression.

>>34495820
Are you okay if I put all that in the wiki/doc?

>>34495867
BTW the stone men drop right in the middle there

>>34495877
Are you if I mention this difference in the gdoc?

>>34495867
>Eyes are second wave
Great. So basically, they drop down, fire a few volley, then see what the Eternal Zealots and others now look like, then turn their weapons against traitor forces before having to leave due to heavy retaliation from Hector.

>>34495458
OK, we are doing Kleisthenes.

Lumey saw K as a vain, ambitious man from a vain, ambitious culture. He was quick to point out failings and short-comings of the Scions of Europa during the Crusade, often in the nastiest and most public way possible. However, Lumey also paid glowing tribute to Kleisthenes for his sacrifice at Terra in a beautiful piece of writing, generally known as "Salute to the Fallen".

Have to ask Kleisthenes-anon which side of Lumey the Scions take as definitive.

>>34494371
Hektor enjoyed discussing various things with Arelex, especially his role as warmaster however he disproved of Arelex's failure to stand with the other legions in terms of compliances.

>>34494850
Hektor's title on his homeworld was the "Sun King" but that wasn't often used after he became Warmaster.

>>34495458
During the Heresy, Hektor considered Kleisthenes one of his closest friends amongst his brothers. He would often confide in him and their warriors relished the chance to fight side by side.

>>34495796
Animal motifs are always pretty good.

Wraith Hawks, Wraith Serpents, Wraith Hounds, that sort of thing.

Or, if "wraiths" is too close to all the eldar shit, maybe "Barrow Lords" or "Cold Legion" or "Deepguards".

"Merchants and explorers" is something you mentioned.

"Coin Callers", "Golden Sons", "Privateros (Privateers), "Silver Fleet" could be along that secondary theme.

>>34495796
With these ideas in mind, the Legion began to use the iconography of the warp-terror and the xeno-beast, adorning their ships with trophies of their slain foes, and using their psykers to bathe their ships in warp flame.

It was this idea of the predator within that soon became a cult idea within the legion, with various squads seeking to emulate their totems, mythic beasts from the human past, particularly wraiths, but also bears, foxes, rocs, qilins, lammasu, ghouls, etc.

>>34495796
Basically, my thought is that one thing that Marines aren't usually seen doing is things involving trade, commerce.

Defending the spacelanes from pirates is something they do, but few chapters really have that as a theme.

Just my 2 cents on a more unique theme you could draw from, Marines who understand the flow of gold, goods, and trade.

>>34495458

Darius saw Kleisthenes as dutiful but overly stubborn.

>>34495553

I believe we established the two of us had a healthy respect for each other, though I think Darius secretly feared Voidwatcher a little. He recognized the drive and ambition behind his brothers eyes, and saw him as a sort of dark reflection of himself, what Darius might of become in different circumstances. Still, they were respectful to one another though Darius saw little reason to visit him often.

>>34496083
Dayum, I like Barrow Lords. Barrow Hounds?
Wraith Hounds is also pretty awesome.

>>34496101
Are we giving these guys the Argent Legion slot? I'm OK with that, for what it's worth.

>>34496014
Actually they should be participating in the Dropsite Massacre.

This would be the sin they would have to atone to.

Also the Traitors at the Dropsite Massacre were not already corrupted ala "tentacles everywhere"

So, yeah. Off-topic, can't figure out what to do with how my Primarch met the Emperor. Anyone have any ideas that I can use as a diving board?

>>34496144
Barrow Hounds sounds like a good Entombed successor

>>34495869
I suppose your right. Perhaps we should have some kind of trial for my legion, and result being a large pentient crusade for the legion, that eventually breaks them down to little above a few companies? Although, they are rather heavily injured during the defense of mars if i recall.

>>34496168
Entombed geneseed doesn't work well enough for them to have successors. They can't even replace their losses.

>>34495942
Sure, that would be great, i am away from the computer right now

So we've got for Primarchs

Octullus the All Seeing

Darius Silver-Eyes, The Sphinx, Prohet-King at home

Hektor the Sun King

>>34496144
If it were up to me, I'd pick Barrow Lords. But I might be a little biased in that regard, lol.

>>34496014
Now that I think of it, this scenario could also provide some legitimacy for the Eyes. Like, if the War Scribes record them as being on the loyalist side since that's all they could see, while the Knights of Justice suspect the Eyes might have been involved with traitors as well, but give them some benefit of doubt, as everyone from the Knights who was there and knew for sure is dead and it could have been a case of accidental friendly fire.

>>34494371
Johannes would support Arelex and his goal of recovering lost technology and giving it to the people. He would even provide Arelex with his own knowledge, sharing what he gathers about alien life forms and records of diseases along with cures for them.

>>34496216
Gaspard Lumey doesn't have any nicknames that can be used in polite company. (The Void Angels call him "The Incorruptible".)

>>34496167
Could have something like. Hunting in the forest and him and his group come across a Thunderhawk that's landed in a clearing. Custodes standing outside it and you and your group attack. Your group gets decimated by the Custodes but you're able to take down two custoddes before the Emperor appears and you recognise him as your father. You then stop fighting and blah blah blah.

>>34496232
Oh, yeah, having the Eyes deemed loyalist due to the War Scribes screwing up the records is great.

>>34496172
Being a Traitor would close to "deleting the whole legion"-worthy in the eyes of the Emperor.

I'd say on the opposite you avoid Trial, first because the Emperor will never have the time before "dying", and second because your Legion will consider that they have repaid their debt through the heavy losses and the heavier and valorous fighting during the Heresy.

Now the problem is that likes of the Knights would just never accept that, and your Legion would have to always be watchful of them.

>>34496188
They can, just very slowly. Their recruitment rate is low, but they still do recruit.

>>34496188
True. That's a shame. Are the Entombed getting a primarch anytime soon?
>>34496152
I take it the Argent Legion aren't getting any love then? Are there others that are AWOL?

>>34496232
>>34496266

Sure, that's plausible, as long as the Eyes provided a decent cover story.

>>34496266
That... amuses me. Fund it.

>>34496216
> The Bloodseer

You are going to make a lot of eyes roll with this one...

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Right, I've whipped this up for us all.

Just need one more Legion for the Traitor Second Wave, and we'll be done with Isstvan V.

>>34496242
Hey, what about this: my Primarch can read minds right? So he sees your guy, and reads his thoughts and decides to talk out your problems, because your the first Primarch to let him read his mind, usually they block him out.

>>34496288
They have Golgothos, who's a pretty cool guy. There are some other Legions which may or may not be abandoned, we don't want to leap to conclusions.

>>34496289
They already have one, look at the map. The War Scribes are at the opposite end of a very chaotic battlefield, the Entombed are in the middle and covered right under a huge toxic cloud obscuring vision. The only loyalists who the Eyes could reliably shoot and be seen by are Knights of Justice, and they are right next to Eternal Zealot positions.

>>34496340
Its the abandoned ones I'm interested in, mostly because it would give me free reign to whip up something wholly from scratch.

>>34496305
The Gorgers should be there.

>>34496315
Gaspard doesn't have problems, though. His whole "I am a dick to all the other Primarchs" routine is because he (rightly) sees them as ambitious and a real threat to the Imperium. Befriending guys who you might have to kill - and Gaspard has Alexandri assassinated and slays Brennus with his own hands - is a sure way to make your life hard. If Octullus gets that, then he might be the only one of the Primarchs who genuinely admired Lumey.

I still think Lumey would be an ass to him, though.

>>34495796
>>34496130
Ooh, yes!

They also do indeed understand trade and economics, often bringing areas into submission through the use of nothing more than a few well placed trade missions.

More often than not, the Imperium sees them as heroic starfleets, guarding merchants and aiding in trade negotiations, even using their gene-enhanced and psycho-conditioned minds for economic profit.

Behind the scenes, this is more often than not used to set up webs of influence and control through business agents and economic manipulation.
For example, the Puntic Empire was famously conquered when the Legion trade manipulation caused stock prices to plummet, precipitating a massive financial collapse. The government was overthrown and Sargon used the resulting chaos to annex the entire region with minimal combat.
This mercantile side, however, vanishes when the legion goes to war, with the legion channeling the darker side of humanity.

>>34496304
I am certain this whole project will make lots of eyes roll.

But if I think of something else I'll use that, for now Bloodseer works, considering that he is a Seer that uses Blood.

>>34496385

They're in the second wave, remember? That's just the first wave assault. They're in the main map.

>>34496288
The Entombed have had a Primarch Since the first thread. Golgothos. Not sure where he went but his fluff was really good and was here for a while.

>>34496304
I dunno. I thought it was pretty good given what he does. He's not a Primarch.

>>34495553
>>34495621
>>34495716
>>34495793
>>34495929
>>34496137
I think the general consensus is everyone is unnerved by me plus their feeling on psykers except for Alaxandri who likes me.

>>34496304
>>34496216

Amazingly enough, I am actually going to side with Nathanog on this one. That's a bit BLOODGRIMEDGEDARK, I think.

>>34496370
Cool deal.

>>34496277
Here's the thing about that. Half the Legions are bearing down on Terra, etc. etc. Emperor decides that he needs all the forces to his side that he can get, and Octullus provides a ton of valuable intel, so he issues a temporary pardon, in exchange for placing them in some of the most dangerous defensive positions, where he also wouldn't be able to cause any real harm to other, trusted loyalists, with a Trial to happen if everyone survives. Emperor gets turned into a vegetable, though, and so it kind of falls to the wayside, and eventually forgotten, because they've won the battle, but still need to push the traitors back to the Eye of Terror.

>>34496405
Bloodseer might be an issue if he was more prominent, but for (effectively) a Chapter Master it's no worse than GW naming conventions. If it makes sense to you, go for it.

>>34496422
Hey, I rather like you, I'm just unnerved in your presence.

>>34496422
Gaspard's not unnerved and doesn't mind psykers. (He genuinely likes Darius.) He just thinks that The Voidwatcher is the second-biggest jerk among the Primarchs.

Lumey might even be petty enough to call Voidy "The" in conversation.

>>34496277
Some animosity between legions is good, but i don't think the knights would be 100 percent certain that they did anything due to a mix of the Eyes long ranged stealthy warfare along with the chaos of the the battle itself. If there was any evidence, they could brush it off as traitors. But that still leaves in universe question for the other legions to guess what exactly happened and why the eyes were there in the first place

>>34496315

Hmm our Primarchs are kinda too similar as well. I think me and you better talk things out and work out all these kinks. I kinda had Darius being the saintly priest/teacher type.

>>34496422
Yeah, Tiran is kinda spooked. Doesn't hate you or anything, but still unnerved. Doesn't help that Keradops doesn't react well.

>>34496431
Seems good. It doesn't prevent the likes of Knight to still hold the grudge later.

If they are just pardonned, after heresy the legion will just be "hey we did some bad things before but it's all good now"

Which is more than boring.

>>34496216
Sargon Eriskigal of the Barrow Lords, Tophet, B'n Ba'al, Lugal, King of Kings.
Specializing in void operations, economics and economic warfare, agressive stealth operations.

(Later sucessor chapters include Barrow Hounds, Wraith Riders, Coin Callers, Deep Guard.)

>>34496489
And that's the point, no? Everyone knows the Eyes weren't sent there by Emps and there are rumors among the Knights that the Eyes might have been firing on their brothers, but none of that is proven since any Knight who saw anything died there and the Eyes deny having shot at anybody but traitors. So the suspicion is there, but nobody can prove anything.

Alright, so I can't take it anymore. My curiosity is getting to me.

What do the other Primarchs think of Alexandri and the Silver Cataphracts?

>>34496489
Your legion is not just snipers, right?

Even the likes of the Alpha Legion still have Tactical Marines.

>>34496398
That makes perfect sense for Octullus. Gaspard is ass, but Octullus just nods his head since he understands

>>34496465
Not calling "The" is disrespectful where I come from. If he dislikes my world view he'd probably like me even less now that I've decided that he's directly motivated by personal gain. He's like the stereotypical power hungry warlock/sorcerer. The society he was born into was based on politics and related mystic pursuit to attain even higher status. He encourgaes every member of his legion to scheme to acquire more power, at least the higher ranking ones.

>>34496618

Hard to tell. You seem kinda like a loose cannon and a bit more self serving based on what I've read in the wiki but I'm not sure.

>>34496618
What's your Legion combat doctrine?

Also why Cataphracts when you are Russian-themed?

>>34496659
Done. We have huge enmity. It's only barely restrained even during the Crusade. (This actually fits mine as Not!Space Wolves to your Not!Thousand Sons.)

>>34496631

Ya I think our Primarchs might be way too similar. Our personalities and mind set seem identical. Seems like we're both going for the patient understanding wise monk like figure.

>>34496618
Johannes would think Alexandri did well ruling Rosskan, but his troubles are just the result of not being thorough enough with quelling dissent. You gotta purge all the heresy and all that. At least that's what he would openly say, while still a bit unsure of that.

>>34496697

Ya might want to rename yourself the Silver Cossacks or something. Cataphracts were more of an Arabian thing right?

>>34496618
Peversely, I think Gaspard rather liked Alexandri. Or at least, he respected the guy for being direct and unpretentious. Sure, Alexandri is a huge threat to the Empire and no doubt intends to take the throne, but he's under no illusions.

Again, this doesn't stop the usual antics. I do wonder if at least one 'phract Successor has unusually good relations with the Void Angels, though.

>>34493818
Went out for a smoke with some friends. What did I miss?

>>34496766
Cossacks are fast attack cavalry though, not siege troops.

>>34496766
Cataphracts are a Byzantine thing and Tsarist Russia viewed itself as a successor to Constantinople. The name is good, just not blunt.

>>34496621
No, but they are very ranged focus, due to their hyper sensative Occulobes that focuses on distant sights and , faulty catalespean nodes that make them sleep much less, and due to their resistance to brain washing, the anti fear programming doesn't take root too well. They rely on ranged combat and mechanized warfare, but have a few select assault squads to allow units to redeploy.

>>34495516

Hey guys, I think we need to start on the Zealots.

I have to sleep in 30 minutes.

>>34496697
It was part of their initial description. Not!Russians.

They're siegers who believe in achieving victory by any means necessary. They won't bomb a place for holding out, they aren't malicious, but they absolutely do not give a shit about how much collateral damage they cause.

>>34496766
I was actually considering that the Emperor named them the Cataphracts, like he originally named so many Legions only for them to have their names changed. Alexandri just literally gives so little of a fuck he never bothered to change it something more appropriate. That is just my theory though.

>>34496783

Cataphrants aint exactly siege troops either, they're heavy cavalry.

>>34496618
Alexandri is probably one of the few Primarchs Tiran would make small talk with. Maybe have slight concerns about the ambition, but he'd find him agreeable enough.

>>34496766
You meant >>34496618

Also I could see "The Silver Axes"

His Primarch pretty much led a Peasant revolt on an icy world.

I could see Axes being their preferred weapons during the revolution.

>>34496618
Merrill would think you a bit egomaniacal. You seem to try and take power for yourself, and power really isn't his thing, so he probably wouldn't understand why you do just about anything the way you do it. Probably another one we wouldn't get along with.

>>34496817
Ah Siegers, interesting...

Well you need to change your name to something siege related.

The "Silver" in it is great,

What about the "Silver Rams", from the battering rams used in medieval sieges.

>>34496817
Actually, yeah, I probably really wouldn't get along. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Merrill is super-nice-huggy-guy, but collateral usually hurts a cause more than helping it, in his opinion.

>>34496618
The Eyes respect the intelligent and logical silver cataphracts, although they feel as if their dark attitudes and fatalism kind of hurt them in the long run

>>34496813
I'm running out of ways to say that Gaspard is a dick to the other Primarchs, but take it for granted that you're no exception. The Xeno ally thing would have been the subject of many venomous broadsides

>>34496890
Stealing Kranios' thunder there.

>>34496925
Meh, The Ram thing was kind of dropped at this point. I'd really rename my Legion anything as long as it got across the gritty destruction and siege vibe.

>>34496813
Hey, what, exactly are you looking for help on?

>>34496924
He can say what he wants.
He'd point out the Irony that a Xeno is more kind than his own brother, then call into question if he really IS human.

Has any work been done so far for Gaspard Lumey, Primarch of The Void Angels?

Their entry seems pretty sparse, but I get the feeling that's been resolved in this very thread.

>>34496618
The Voidwatcher would s you as self-serving, egomanical, and dangerous. He would respect you immensely obviously. Probably wouldn't trust you much but he would like talking to you about matters trying to gain power and having power.

>>34496947
Just keep it the same, the name's fucking cool as shit.

>>34496813

Darius would see you as well meaning but naive and a little misguided.

>>34496956
Developing relationships between primarchs and legions.

Also, seeing if anything needs touching up.

>>34496846
>>34496890
Nathanog, I didn't pick the name and I'd rather go with an anon's original idea than switch it about. This was the name given to me, this is the name I'm keeping with. Scions aren't exactly really Scions, the Eyes aren't literal Eyes.

>>34496902
>>34496901
They don't believe in attacking for the hell of it. They attack population centers when those centers are resisting them, and are currently funding the enemy war machine. Better us, than them. But this attitude extends deeper, where Imperial Army forces are even sacrificed to save Astartes. Hell, maybe even other Legionnaries if it would save other Cataphracts...

>>34496925
Hummm, that's true, forgot about that...

Aren't they named Horns of Ruin now?

>>34496947
You are siege-based too...

You might have a problem Alexandrii >>34496817

>>34496813
Already established in our case. Fellow apothecaries, share interests but not methods. Respect each other and enjoy arguing, but slowly grow apart as Johannes loses his grip on sanity and Aubrey is shocked by the betrayal of his xeno allies.

>>34496968
There's quite a lot of Lumey stuff that has been discussed in this and the last thread, it's just a matter of bringing it all together. The Void Angels came in late as a re-write of the jolly space pirate legion (I kid you not - "Void Privateers"), so they're a bit behind.

>>34496962
Haha, awesome. We need some people slinging mud back at the Void Angels.

>>34496994
You are taking it the wrong way.

Cataphracts are an arabian/persian thing, you can't get more not-Russian.

I'm sure you are thankful toward the person who gave you the legion BUT if you wanted to really be THAT thankful you should have kept EVERYTHING instead of changing it.

And of course you changed mostly about everything about the legion.

You can't do that and now go "oh by I don't want to change that original thing". It's absurd.

>>34496813
Tiran wouldn't like the whole Xenos allies thing, especially given how much of the Legion was lost to Xenos. He'd probably be aware of the irony in that, too, considering that Sors might as well just be nonsapient xenos.

>>34497014
Did you happen to read that mini writefaggotry I produced in an earlier thread.
That reflection of their conversations on medicine before and after the heresy.

I always thought of Aubrey as a surgical doctor, while Johannes was medical practice.

>>34497026
Nice. I'm a journalist, so I went a little ape-shit when I saw "Primarch Journalist".

Who does need some serious work? It's been a while since I've contributed to something on /tg/.

Alright guys I'm going to bed now, seeing as its 4am. I should have my Primarch biography down by tomorrow then I'll start on my Legion's biography.

>>34496999
I think I said my problem with the silver cataprachts was that they tried to put to much complexity or finesse in a job that involved no more complexity then cracking open a nut. You don't need to get a chisel involved in a job that works just as well with a sledgehammer.

Let's say Kranios adored the crusade and blazed through the planets he was assigned, leaving them husks of what they were.

>>34497076
Aubrey would probably tip-toe around him, but would not apologise for his allies.

"Every Xenos being is unique, I am sure if I was brought up with those Xenos, I would be just as hateful and spiteful as they were."

>>34497073
What fluff was there before I came around?

>>34496813
Would think you were naive for trusting xenos the way you did. You should have used them properly and kept them beat down and subjugated. He would also not like your zealotry at all. He likes skepticism and really dislikes religious people.

>>34496994
No, I get that, I'm just saying that he would see it as laying the seeds for rebellion or more, harder to cut out resistance, as opposed to simply sneaking in and killing a few key resistance members in their sleep, and mopping up the remainder in the confusion that followed. My guy's a total asymmetrical thinker, I'm just following that line of thought.

>>34496993
Don't know a whole bunch about your chapter, but from what I can tell, he likes what your goals are, initially, but the whole self-righteous bit really grinds his gears. He'd probably try fairly hard to get along with you, but would also give you a fair amount of shit so he could knock your ego down a peg.

>>34497095
Glad you like it. He's not the most objective journalist (shades of Marat), but I thought it was an interesting change of scene.

There is a lot of space for Successors. While that's controversial, my advice is to go with Second Foundings based on the events of the Heresy, so you can address subthemes in the Legions.

>>34497104
Interesting.

So you are the destruction aspect of sieges, while he is the craftsmanship and skills of sieges.

Interesting.

>>34497114
The name to start.

Should have been the first thing changed if you think about it.
Will you think about it?

>>34497080
Yeah, it fits both of them perfectly. Johannes is the kind of guy who would secretly love to be proven wrong by Aubrey, but at the same time he sees his inability to cure the Red Death as a failure of such methodology, a failure Aubrey risks to repeat, hence arguing for a "better safe than sorry" policy.

>>34497114
The objection to the name is spurious - and incorrect. Cataphracts featured in the Greek and Roman armies, and were emulated in early Russia. I know you didn't come up with it, but the anon that did knew his stuff.

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>>34495716
>Arelex would have been very impressed with Kliesthenes' empire building. The way he was such a savant in aspects of civilization and civilized life would have pleased Arelex, and it's likely that Arelex would have tried to offer assistance to the Scions of Europa, perhaps offering them a relic or two as a sign of friendship.
>Arelex would probably have talked at length with Kleisthenes on the proper ways to run a planet, and debated the finer details of Imperial administration.
>Odds are they wouldn't have met in person very often, as it sounds like Kleisthenes would have been at the leading edge of the Great Crusade, whereas Arelex lagged behind, hunting treasures of antiquity near the Galactic Core.

Thank you, Primarch Aralex! You are indeed a fine statesman and a scholar, and I do believe that we would get to spend some time during the Crusade discussing our common love for empire-building and history together. Had I lived to see your penning of the Codex Astartes and your creation of the Administratum, I would have been even more honored than I already was to call you my brother.

>>34496137
>>34495526
>>34495793
>>34496040
Thank you all for your kind and insightful words, brothers.

>>34495926
Understandable.

>>34496029
>>34495458
Your assessment of me is what is it is, and I accept it, and I also thank you for your remembrance of me after my demise at Hektor's hand.


I will write what Klesthenes thought of the Primarchs at a later time, as I must now retire to bed. I'll be away for the next day and a half due to driving to/moving back into my university, so I look forward to seeing what more of the /tg/ Heresy you all have written by then.

Thank you all, and once again, I'm honored to be a part of this with you guys

/TG/ GETS SHIT DONE

>>34497145
He would respond that he dislikes the thought of forcing them into servitude, everything he got in life was through trust and building his name.

When he found out about the Emperor it was not had to preach his name and attempt to get the Xenos populous to follow that religion, which is ironic; In Aubreys days as a medic and following up to his life as a general, he did not believe the Xenos gods, despite his up-bringing.

"Present to me your gods and I shall believe in them, until I have divine proof, I shall continue to consign the souls of the men I kill and those I fail to mend to the endless void."

Of course the Emperor showed up and he was awe struck.

>>34497168
Awesome. I'll lurk for a bit while I read the wiki page.

Any legion in particular that could use a successor? I was hoping to work on a Legion, but I've got a pretty free weekend before school starts.

I know we are focusing on the Primarchs right now, but I'd like to share some of what I have.

The Bloodseer, Vate of the Haruspex, Lord of the Strix.

One of the original members of the Black Augurs, having been with them since their creation on Terra. He has because of this witnessed first hand the Legions change from the Brotherhood it had been, the squabbling power mad force it has become. His personal prowess in the ways of war, combined with his knack for leadership and own desires of power helped earn him his lofty position as Master of the Haruspex.

Once he could have been considered a handsome man, but an enemy Sniper changed that during his time as a Sergeant, were it not for his helmet he would be dead. The right side of his face is now scared and his eye replaced with an cybernetic replacement.

He wears Mk IV power armor, inscribed with runes, the Breastplate features a Strix. At the time of the Dropsite Massacre he wields a Force Glaive and wrist mounted Combi-Bolter and has a MkIV Jump pack. After the Massacre, the Glaive is replaced with a Daemon Sword.

>>34497209
Of course, Aubrey hung up his "scalpel" persay before that happened.
Becoming the general, no longer the medic.

>>34497175
See: >>34497215
It seems we've both been arguing a moot point. It never actually mattered because it is actually related to ancient Russia.

>>34497266
The Cataphracts would be honored to have a Successor. Also, you don't have to limit yourself to a single Legion, you could make multiple Successors.

>>34497266
Scions of Europa are a good option. If you want a "chase" Successor Chapter you can write the only (possibly ill-fated?) Void Angels Successors.

>>34497266
I do believe Ardent Legion gave up his character/legion to be developed by the group, so if no one else called it yet, have at it!

>>34497286
Dope. Put it in the wiki. You can add a sub-section to the Black Augurs for "Prominent Vates" or something.

>>34497291
Also, let me just say that I think you, personally have one of the most flushed out ideas, you seem to know exactly where you're going with shit, and I do enjoy your writing. I wasn't pointing anything as a personal slant against you or how you did stuff, just relating things IC.

>>34497257
Now heres a question: What would the traitor primarchs think of Octullus and the Eyes? Also out of all the Traitors, which three would want revenge the most?

>>34497339
I think the Barrow Lords guy took that spot.

>>34497423
Aw. Damn.

>>34497398
It's cool brah.

>>34497286
Oooh, perhaps he could hold a grudge against my legion for them scaring his face

>>34497339
>>34497423
Damn, with a name like that I could have gone crazy, haha.

>>34497325
I like the idea of a VA successor. I'll play around with Europans for now, but what's with the VA Successor?

>>34497402
Meh. You left the side. At that point, I think I'd be so engrossed in my "research" that I don't care much about the Heresy's successes or failures, just so long as I could continue making all my tech better. It does seed the possibility for a post-Heresy rivalry, though, as our forces would probably cross paths looking for the same thing on multiple occasions.

>>34497402
Well since you flip flopped, and your moniker, is "The all seeing", quite a few traitor's probably get off on the idea of gouging your eyes out.

>>34497286
Sick shit. I love it. Also interesting because the Voidwatcher uses an ancient and arcane glaive (secretly a Necron Warscythe he pulled out of some kind of sentient vault). But yeah throw it up. It's awesome.

So while we still wait for others to compile their Primarch's bio's, what can we write and do in the meantime?

>>34497215
>>34497305

Not so fast.

You still have to explain what can of possible link could Cataphracts have when it comes to sieges??

Your Legion is sieges-based, that's kind of a big deal.

>>34497402
Aubrey was too wrapped up in his vengeance against Behemond, upon finding out of the betrayal he merely dismissed the eyes.

"If I wanted to, I'd have my men tear them to pieces and offer them to the gods."

He then went on to Saturn, other than that he hunts for the Knights of Justice, where ever they may be.

It isn't enough to kill their primarch.

They all must face Justice, for Lazarus.

>>34496402
Hektor personally invited Sargon to join the traitor cause, hoping that Sargon's dislike of the anti-psyker edicts and censure of economic control and warfare from many of his brothers would drive Sargon to his camp.
Sargon was uninterested, as he believed in the Emperor's vision, if not all of his methods and disdained the chaos gods.
Sargon attempted to lie to Hektor, but The Void Watcher detected this.

Somehow Sargon gets away, I think, to rally his fleet, but he's too late to stop Istvaan. Perhaps this is all part of The Void Watcher's plan?

>>34497549
Fuck man what do EMPIRICAL KNUCKLES HAVE TO DO WITH SIEGING!

The Imperial Fists were siege experts in defense and what the hell did their names have to do with any of it!

>>34497402
Gorgers would give no fucks. More peeps to hunt!

>>34497497
I would, but it happened before his ascendance to Captaincy. We could work out another reason he could hold a grudge against them.

Maybe having to do with something later in the Heresy.

>>34497546
Glad you like it, I went with the Glaive purposefully, as an homage to his Primarch. It was unfortunately lost in a duel on Isstvan V.

>>34497502
Mostly, Lumey wanted to keep his Legion together as a check on the ambitions of others. But then he had to keep the Void Angels from being too ambitious themselves, so he's set himself up as this slumbering monster that occasionally awakes to devour his children. (Not literally, though that tale probably gets told.)

So my best idea for a Successor Chapter is one led by the favourite, the guy who everyone expected to lead the Void Angels after the Primarch. If Lumey's already decided that being Master of the Legion is a death sentence, then he might turf out his favourite in a "I can't stand slaying those dear to me" moment.

Where you'd go from there? Free reign.

>>34497569
We're not even sure the outcome of the Nikaea Council though.

>>34497549
Cataprachts?
Nothing, they're cavalry. Highborn, and insanely well armed and armored, but still cavalry. How about the Silver Catapults, or Silver Trebuchets. Silver Cannons?

>>34497402
Neutral during the Great Crusade, the Eyes preference for ranged warfare is efficient and does the job. Post-heresy, Life Bringers know you are traitors from the other legions and think you are cowards, your mortal fears preventing you from accepting the greatness of Nurgle's paradise.

>>34497528
If im not mistaken, i thought you needed some one to stop you from reaching mars? Perhaps you do reach mars, but we fight, and you retreat?

>>34497246
Not so fast there too.

The views of Kleits and Arelex as added in the Trivia part of the gdoc:

Arelex go "This and this are lacking in your designs and laws Kleis" and Kleis responds "Yes, maybe it's not optimal but happiness/pleasure/epicurism".

>>34497581
You're right that the objection is off the mark. But it's also wrong. "Kataphraktos" just means armoured (although it implies heavy armour). You're the guys in silver armour. You probably have a lot of heavy armour, because that's good in sieges.

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>>34497549
>>34497598
Alright, fellas, let's chill out a moment. Nathanog, you don't like the name, got it. You also didn't like a lot of other things. But so far, most people seem to be able to cope with the name.
Alexandri, we know he's brash and aggressive, just let it go.

>>34497581
Well I always did like your name, but I mean come on? Imperial Fist. Punch wall. Wall go down. Imperium stronk.

Silver Cataphracts sounds like a heavily armed White Scars successor.
Silver Cataclysms?

>>34497581
You are making it personal.

You shouldn't.

It's not because GW do something stupid that we have to do something stupid too.

If anything the name of your Legion indictes that they should be equivalent of the White Scars.

And then we will have to tell people "No no they are actually siege specialists.."

You will ahve the rest of /tg/ mock us all.

Again, it's not about you, it's about making sure we get shit done.

>>34497612
Oh. Well. In that case, unless they were close, perhaps Hektor didn't approach Sargon.

>>34497246
>>34497502

Sargon does seem to be the sort to get along with Arelex and Kliesthenes.


Tangentially, I'm thinking that Sargon is a controversial figure in the Mechanicum. He's smart enough to pay lip service to the Omnissiah, but the Mechanicum knows he's not a devotee of the cult. Still, he's got all kinds of nice toys and a good navy with archeotech.
I think the Magi that like him are best buddies, but those that don't utterly loath him.

>>34497598
Where was he during the heresy? We could have a clash on Mars

>>34497650
I do believe you are correct, sir. I'm thinking some guys get to Mars (I do work in masses of small teams), enough to cause some havoc, and find myself being unable to deal with direct fleet warfare, forcing myself, and my Legion, back from the Solar System? I'd still cause some pretty severe damage, but am losing significantly to superior tactics in a direct setting.

>>34497612
What's the counter on that so far?

Johannes is anti-psyker by the way. The Life Bringers are no strangers to using volatile and dangerous substances, but they are kept well contained under tight security. The Warp defies all reason and is impossible to control, so no amount of safety measures will be enough.

>>34497832
As far as I understand Nikaea, we have a head-count on how the Primarchs enter the debate but not much consideration of what they DO there.

>>34497638
That sounds like a intresting point. Perhaps Hektor promised the Eyes to Nurgle, but due to them escaping, nurgle has tasked the life bringers to bring them into the fold of nurgle since he can feel their fear?

>>34497757
If the Black Augurs go to Mars during the Heresy that most certainly could have happened. He leads the Haruspex as a Tip of the Spear formation in lots of operation and thowing in Melee and Short Range firefight experts against guys who favor long range would be good.

They function similar to the Reaver Squads in the FW Heresy Rule Books. Lots of CC and Shooting, the Captain emphasizes it. As well as Jump Packs for rapid relocation.

>>34497832
I think I'll switch my guy to pro-psyker. Not that he loves them as people or anything, I just can't see him passing up on using a human thunderstorm or fireball. I see a lot of his psykers heads exploding from power overuse in his legion though.

>>34497402

Been trying to get your attention. I think our primarchs are too similar and we need to make some compromises like what me and Voidwatcher did. To me it seems liek we're both going for the patient saintly brother who relies more on psychic abilities. My guy is blind while your guy grew up on a planet with poor visibility.

>>34497821
Sounds perfect to me. A fight between the loyalist dogs of the Ad mech and those that want usuro the omnissiah.

>>34497879
I think you're acually moon hopping in the Saturn campaign.

>>34497757
If you're Omnissiah oriented, you may have found Sargon an oddly placed ally.
Sargon has friends on Mars who would have called him for help, but his friends on mars are likely to be rivals of your friends.

This in addition to any suspicion of Octullus from Istvaan.

How do you think they got on before that?

>>34497612
I am sure each Primarch would have a matter to speak up...


"It is a simple fact my fellow Primarchs, many opinions have been shared here on the application of war!"
"Such is our way, the way of the Imperium, the way of the astartes and the way of the Primarch, however I stand before you to offer a more fresh opinion, take the application of a warriors sword aside!"
Aubrey offered out one hand, as if it were presenting some imaginary, invisible object, the sword he was referring to.
"Another blade in the belt is useful to be sure, but is it not true that a knife can be many things, a tool of assassins, a last ditch effort to save yourself for another day, a mirror to spy around the corner within enemy territory and watch your back!"
He closed his fist then offered out his left, the opposite hand in a similar fashion as before.
"That same knife however, can be a tool of healing, a scalpel to allow someone to operate upon the ill, the injured, yes my brothers, I believe that this sorcery can be used for more than war, or divination, It can be used to heal, more than modern medicine can!"

There was somewhat of an murmur that passed around the hall, some in uproar.
It was then Aubrey spoke in a more commanding tone than he did before.
"I fully intend to prove this theory! however I can not do this without the proper blessings from our father, without the blessings from all my brother primarchs..."

He looked out to the hall, his vision sweeping across his brothers, with an expression rarely seen on the Zealots face, contempt.

"I understand I am somewhat of a scandal amongst you, I have heard of you whispering to each other...your disapproval of my...methods and company I may well keep, but that should provide bias nor disapproval of my hopes for innovation of the medical services that can be provided to our men at arms, if only another scalpel in our belt!"

Aubrey took his seat among his brothers, as the hall rose once again, in uproar.

Okay, I just noticed, why is the Primarch of the Stone Men, 20 feet tall? Even for a Primarch that's ridiculous.

>>34497821
Perhaps the Barrow Lord's fleet is the cavalry that turns the tides on Mars?

>>34497901
To complement that, they also have a mini-theme of Betrayal, Redemption, and Distrust.

>>34497879
>>34497906
I think the only problem with putting dudes who just switched sides on one of your most valuable locations isn't really that viable. You would probably be defending the system somewhere, but not on Mars itself. Also, my legion is also assault/close combat oriented, and our shared opinions of technology add a little bit of symbolism to the mix, as you stated. Seems like a good plan, so far.

Alright, I'm going to reply to everyone but I've decided to consider different names. Just tell me what you think from this list.

The Silver Bannermen(Those who declare for a Rosskan noble.)
The Silver Glaives.
The Silver Boyars.
The Silver Berdyshs.

>>34497660
Well, Cataphracts is just easier to type out and easier to pronounce. It fits in the mind easier.

That is just compared to "Kataphraktos" though.

>>34497662
NO!

I DUN WANNA!

>>34497734
Nathanog, you are the only guy to ever bring this up.

I'm getting a bit steamed, yes, but that is unrelated to this. Outside complications.

I'm sorry if it seems my temper is short, but I like the name, and I don't think it is nearly as serious as you are saying.

>>34497832
See: >>34494034

>>34497936
Your legion would make a fine Loyalist with those ideals. A shame really. You could be the healer of the Imperium..

Oh well.

>>34497950
The stone men disappear into deep space at the beginning of the heresy and become this AU's equivalent of the Legion of the Damned. Or at least that's what I think was established.

>>34498043
Is that not the tragic thing?

A man of great ideals, betrayed and driven to the hands of those who would abuse that naivety.

>>34497863
Promising a legion to a specific god is iffy, unless it's a clear cut case like Life Bringers or Gorgers it's a good recipe to get in trouble, even by Chaos standards. Doubt Hector would do that, plus simply approaching legions and telling them about the gods that might interest them and nudging the primarch in that direction is a better method of getting them to switch. This would be especially the case with the Eyes, who don't even want to be heretics and just end up tricked or pressured into it.

Either way though, post-heresy Life Bringers don't really give a fuck, everyone that isn't on Chaos side is just another unenlightened fool that doesn't understand yet. All they want is roam around turning planets into "paradises" and settling them with cultists similar to their job during the Crusade, and that's what they do. Even the rivalry with the Entombed is not a fierce hatred like what the Entombed feel for them, but more like "ohh, shit, it's them again."

>>34498038
I guess you speak a russian-based language?

Believe it or not but Cataphracts is a pain both to say and to write.

Also no need to excuse yourself for your temper, I don't mind people yelling at me as long as they listen, or give me good counterpoints.

>>34498038
Cataphracts is the english for Kataphraktos. I'm not proposing a change, especially as the reasons for changing were:

1. Not Russian enough. (When it's a name with a Russian connection.)
2. Not siege-oriented. (When the name means armoured.)
and
3. /tg/ won't like it. (My experience of /tg/ is that there's a solid military history crew and other anons listen to what they say, so the odd ill-informed objection will be quickly shushed.)

Don't change. It's a good name.

>>34498105
Oh, Aubrey's opinion on the use of psykers in medicine vs Johannes opinions on psykers would be delicious to see.

>>34498090
I'm sure Nurgle will have fun with your "healing" skills.

>>34497901

Well, to be honest, Octullus isn't saintly, hes more of a "if i don't agree, he might rip my head off" kind of guy. Hes patient, but that's because hes afraid that if he isn't, they'll get mad at him. And he only has the mind reading thing, and sees the warp as something that can easily back fire. You are motivated by fate. We are motivated by fear. We are different, but we reach the same conclusion. Perhaps we can be parellels?

>>34497936
Aubrey speaks truly.
How would the Ba'al's empire survive without the navigators? How can we survive but by trade? And how can we trade, but by sorcery?

>>34498090
Hah! Nurgle has the Life Bringers for that.
No, we're surgeons.
We cut out the cancer.
We hack apart the Imperium.

>>34497963
Yeah, sure. We had it written a while ago that my Legion had a hand in creating the virus that fucked up Mars. I was thinking, based on earlier discussions, that maybe a few teams, about a company or less, got to Mars, uploaded the virus, and went to town stealing everything that wasn't bolted down and meltabombing everything that was. They'd need some reason to just up and leave, so the cavalry coming would be an excellent reason to do just that. They're not suited for open warfare.

>>34498038
I'm still things Silver Cataclysms isn't that bad.
I mean, you shouldn't even be trying to get culture in your Legions name. I mean "Space Wolves" are vikings but that doesn't mean they had to be named the "Lief Eriksons Wolves" or something.