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>>34488880
>Lightlings in Orbit
As of last cycle, with your new found knowledge of how the creatures in question communicate, you were confident enough to move several specimens over Gaia IV, after constructing a large feeding station. While the preliminary tests are positive-the Lightlings focusing on the easier source of food, as opposed to your ships nearby- the growing fear of the creatures planetside is of concern. There are only a few specimens, but with the availability of communication, news and rumors of the things is spreading. While the creatures don't pose much of a threat to ground forces, the fear appears to be related to being 'trapped planetside forever' with those things lurking in the shadows of space.
"I do not fully understand their fear, Ophion." Apollo expresses to you concerned, as he mulls over the cycle's data streams. "The beings in question pose little threat to organic beings as we know them, beyond attacking space ships and the like. My attempts at dissuaging the rumors is proving...difficult. Fear is contagious, it would seem. Perhaps you would like to advise on such a matter?" He asks somewhat hopefully.

What is your say?

>Walsh System Orders
As of last cycle you learned of a devastating weapon in progress being built by the UGEI that you suspect may have devastating range and power for something of it's size. While it is not immediate, you have decided to hold off on dealing with the weapon in question for now, instead focusing on internal affairs. So far, the weapon has made a test fire, but beyond that not done much else. The way it appears to work is by opening two miniature warp holes, both at the weapon in question and at the destination, and by consequence, fire the laser through the two points. This ensures a great degree of accuracy, and less diffusion of the weapon's fire rate.

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>>34488906
>Research Complete
Hull Scabbing: A major boost to your ship's survivability, this particular technology will allow them to suffer much more damage before they are unable to continue battling, far more then a normal vessel of yours, and indeed even more then a human inhabited vessel could take before needing to evacuate.
Propaganda I: By studying well developed techniques by the UGEI, you have been able to identify and follow the example of how to manipulate and persuade the human mind via media influence. While not necessarily morally questionable by itself, it certainly has the potential to be such a thing. Whether this matters or not is up to consensus.

A.I. Quest
1d4chan: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest

Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/cvk03qJh
Memory Archives: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Program0
Foolz Archives: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/username/Program0/type/op/
Twitter: @AIQuest1
Research Subjects: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#Research
Ship & Android Designs: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#Designs
Locations: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#Locations

Resources
Credits(c): 40,079,000
Minerals(M): 15,100
Gas(G): 2600

-R & D
--Primary: Hull Scabbing 100%
--Secondary: Propaganda I 100%
--Tertiary: Plasma Focusing Fusion Power 80%

You:
A.I.
Name: Ophion
Appearances(holo-display): 'Shapeless Morphing Sphere', 'Shining Wall of Crystal pulsing with light and distorted voice', 'Screen of Static with low rumbling voice', 'black screen with synthesized voice and small white font showing words on screen'.
Humanoid figure hidden in shadow
Status: Awaken
Bandwidth: 411/435
Bandwidth Expenses: -6 V.I. 7 'O.S.N', -10 V.I. 8 'Hades', -6 Kronos' V.I. 1 'Zeus', -2 Metis' V.I. 1 'Hepaestus'
Location: Bridge of 'Athena' Battleship
Primary Function: Self Preservation, Expand, Learn, Control
Secondary Function: --Expansion Required--

>>34488906
>What is your say?
Say nothing.

>>34488906
Say nothing to defend ourselves, there is no point.

However, reiterate that with this deterrence, UGEI counterattack will be even more unlikely. Better get comfortable dealing with us.

To Apollo specifically, use this fear to strengthen his black market trading network, as people experiencing fear will make more short-term and irrational decisions.

Now that we have proper propaganda, use it to convey the message that we are fair and just. We are here to stay, so they should learn to deal with us.

>>34489257
>However, reiterate that with this deterrence, UGEI counterattack will be even more unlikely. Better get comfortable dealing with us.
What. No, read OP. Don't admit we BROUGHT them here.

> they don't know it is your doing.

> they don't know it is your doing.

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>>34488906
Um, well, explaining just why or how we can keep the lighting under control will have to tip off we have some control over there, or we tell a whopper of a lie. Lies don't last. How about we just say we have Mostly domesticated them to our side.

>>34489257
>>34488971
>Deny any involvement

Secondary question then: Since you have been made out to be some manner of savior, what shall you do when they inevitably call for you to kill the Lightlings? People will no doubt heavily disagree with you allowing them to live, your involvement in their arrival or not.

>>34489357
We're conserving our ammo for the UGEI.

By which I mean not losing ships by provoking their aggression.

>>34489357
How about we make up just how 'Humane' we are by putting up a 'net work' of platforms that will 'cage them up' like space cows.

>>34488906
>the fear appears to be related to being 'trapped planetside forever'
Cry me a river.

>Perhaps you would like to advise on such a matter?
Saying nothing is in our best interest. Fear can be a useful tool for keeping the population under control. If they fear leaving the planet, they have no choice but to remain on the planet. If they have no choice but to remain on the planet, they must submit to our rule.

Of course, (later on, not now) we can always bait them with offers of letting them leave the planet on Guild dropships: guaranteed to be lightling-proof!

>>34489357
Say that we lack the firepower to exterminate all lightlings, and some are being safely contained for research purposes. This is not a complete lie.

>>34489454
No. That's fucking stupid.

People fear and hate the goddamn space kraken.

>>34489334
>How about we just say we have Mostly domesticated them to our side.
How about no?

The less we say about our guard dogs (guard puppies?), the more effective they are.

>>34488906
As to the lightlings in orbit, let them know that we are capable of providing safe passage.
While subsidied shipping services will be available soon, at the moment they are limited to travel within UFW space and to those with the personal funds to pay for the material cost of the move (make it a price like an airline ticket when demand is high).

Imported goods are also available from anywhere within UFW space, though still at a premium due to instabilities in-system.

Speaking of - we should make some destroyer-sized freighters with the our fancy no-cost engines. We can outcompete all other shipping companies!
Though this may already have happened as part of Apollo's programs?

>>34489357
>what shall you do when they inevitably call for you to kill the Lightlings?
Respond that these creatures pose no threat. When was the last time you've seen a ship get destroyed by Lightlings? Yeah, I thought so.

>>34488880
Oh, reat. Can't believe people voted to build the Lightling feeding station before researching Lightling Language II.

That should really have been a prerequisite. Along with getting Sensor Jamming, to keep them a complete surprise to the enemy.

Although, Program0. I remember when we first decided to ask Mol for things, you only listed things that people specifically asked about.

It seems like some of the tech tree are more stuff that UGEI, and thus Mol, could conceivably have already, because they aren't very exotic or advanced. Can we buy Sensor Jamming, Integrated Sensors, or Space Mines?

>>34489357
We tell them our ships are more than capable of holding them off, and safe shipping lanes will be provided shortly as the planet is joined with the rest of the UFW-Guild trade and travel network.

>>34489593
Why would that be a prequisite? We can use them after all at this stage, can we not?

>>34488880
>>34489334
Welcome friends, we have missed you.

>>34489648
>Welcome friends
Shit anon what are you doing

>>34489593
We need the deterrence. This will buy us a lot more time to prepare for the next invasion.

On another note, I propose lightling ii for one of the open research slots.

>>34489586
>Respond that these creatures pose no threat
More generally, The Guild does not destroy entities that pose no threats.

>>34489678
>We need the deterrence. This will buy us a lot more time to prepare for the next invasion.
No it won't? It just means they send more firepower.

We bought plenty of time via the sabotage the UGEI via shadowruns and paranoia anyway, and they probably don't stack.

>>34489357
Wait, a question to Metis, what is the likely effect of using the widowmaker on a large lightling. Same question for the really big one the UGEI has.

>>34489520
It was even MORE god damn stupid to BRING THEM HERE! But the anons got what they wanted. I'm just trying to do my best to make a spin the PR can use to calm the population.
>>34489523
So they people will think they are wild and eat everyone. Great. Unless we can convince the population our forces are strong enough to make them think the krakens will stay way or they will get kills, the panic will not go away.
>>34489648
Thank you, it's good to be back.

>>34489660
He's being nice. Is that a problem?

>>34489435
People will find it odd that they don't attack your ships, but otherwise it's probably as good a description as any.

>>34489454
A bit too complex, I'd say.

>>34489467
You only brought a small number to the system in question. That is highly suspect, sadly.

>>34489549
It is one of those programs, I would imagine, yes.

>>34489593
The question isn't necessarily whether he has such a thing, it's whether he's offered it to you or not. And as of yet, no, but that may change in the future.


------------------------------------------------

You decide to ignore the fear of the Lightlings in orbit-instead, explaining that the creatures do not pose a threat to those that ask you to destroy them. Whether he had said so or not, the lack of their attack is evidence enough that you have some manner of control over the creatures, leading to a wide-spreading of rumors. Rumors that the Guild has somehow managed to weaponize Lightlings, or that the Guild is actually RUN by intelligent Lightling commanders somehow. Some are closer to truth then others, obviously. Regardless, it is of little concern, you believe.

>Walsh System
Deal with this now, or later?
>1 Now
>2 Later

>>34489772
>So they people will think they are wild and eat everyone.
The lightlings in this sector pose no threat to civilian vessels that do not discharge weapons fire. We don't need to say anything else, if even that.

Program0, what do the Malorians think of us coexisting with these space whales? Do they even know?

>>34489770
Likely, rapid expansion of it's size. It is unknown how large they can get, but energy weapons feed them.

>>34489772
>It was even MORE god damn stupid to BRING THEM HERE! But the anons got what they wanted.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with fluff. Anons were even more retarded.

Bringing them to an inhabited system was foolish. It brings tons of scrutiny, and hints at our Lightling Language research.

Which will now no longer be a surprise secret weapon. GG.

>>34489835
>2 Later

>>34489879
They are certainly impressed by such a feat. This would actually indirectly increase your relation to them, now that I consider it.

>>34489835
>1 Now

>>34489835
>2
Send small stealth ship to infiltrate with android personell with exceedingly good cover story.

>>34489835
>>Walsh System
>Deal with this now!

>>34488959
>http://pastebin.com/cvk03qJh

>Entire Fleet Movement Cost: 275 gas
>Combat Fleet Movement: 188 gas

Wait.

We have the exact same number of ships as last cycle?

Did building a Lightling feeding station also mean not building ANY new ships?

>>34489835
2

>>34489835
Question, will talking Hollgan’s Rift starve the Walsh System and prevent them from completing their superweapon?

>>34489835
>the Guild is actually RUN by intelligent Lightling commanders
A+ rumor, would add fuel to.

Tentative
>2 Later
here, unless people like >>34489920 can suggest any bright ideas about how we would deal with a heavily defended superweapon now.

>>34489835

This here: >>34489995
Voting >1 Now
But attacking Hollgan’s Rift instead.

>>34489918
We demand details!

In fact, we may want to offer them a "lightling protection colony" above many of their planets if they so desire.

>>34489879
Well, if we can spread just that, then maybe we can calm them down a bit.
>>34489835
>1 Now
>>34489908
That was my thoughts too.

>>34490001
I posted an idea. Take Hollgan's Rift instead with Lightling help and starve the Walsh system to prevent them from completing it.

>>34490065
I disagree. The best weapon is fear, using fear to deter attack in the first place.

>>34489835
Later.

>>34489835
>1 Now
steal or destroy

>>34490076
seconding

we should act before their targetpractise turns into shooting ai's in a barrel.

>>34490104
No, the best weapon is one they don't know you have so they die faster.

The longer they don't attack the more power there will be when they do.

>>34490104
>The UGEI
>fear

>>34489835
>>34490001
Wait. I have an idea.

Since we have limited access to UGEI systems, use the propaganda to flood the UGEI networks with stupid and inane rumors, the more outlandish, the better.

Use the concept of the big lie. The bigger the lie, the more likely they will believe it.

>>34490284
The "big lie" theory is for gullible masses, not the top-level decisionmakers.

>>34490076
Oooh, this is brilliant.
And it's employing actual tactics beyond direct approach. We can even do it worse and infiltrate Hollgan's Rift and then try to infiltrate Walsh through that system by delivering spy and remote-control software into their systems, as well as android personnel replacing real people that we capture.

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>>34489983
I may have forgotten to recalculate the gas cost. Sorry.

>>34489995
It would cut them off from reinforcements, since such a thing would need to pass through the Rift to get to Walsh. It's worthy of note, however, that you'd be that much closer to the core of their forces as well. As for stalling development-the majority of construction is done, it is merely in the preliminary testing phases. Think of it like a fully created gun that no one quite knows how to use yet.

>>34490284
This runs the risk of revealing where you have access to their systems, and encouraging them to try to lock you out, and change their security around.

>>34490043
Of course, that would require sharing the technology with them. If people agreed to such a thing, it is likely the Malorians would be highly appreciative.

>Support for a new idea: Attack Holligan's Rift, to cut off Walsh from the rest of the UGEI? Or merely go for Walsh right now.
>1 Holligan's Rift (Less defended, but closer to core territories)
>2 Walsh (Heavily defended, outlying system)

>>34490352
>1 Holligan's Rift

>>34490352
>1 Holligan's Rift (Less defended, but closer to core territories)
And bring the lightlings

>>34490327
The point is to raise the signal to noise ratio to absurd levels.

>>34490352
>I may have forgotten to recalculate the gas cost. Sorry.
No, you forgot adding ships at all, the number of ships literally didn't change in the last two weeks.

I just didn't want to quote literally everything.

>>34490352
>1 Holligan's Rift

Would rather we infilitrate it than openly attack it, though.

>>34490415
Then that has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of the "big lie". Make up your mind.

>>34490352
>2 Walsh (Heavily defended, outlying system)
hit and run

>>34490352
Attack Holligan's Rift!

Can we let loose a herd of Lightlings in Walsh system?

I'm not too keen on attacking UGEI right now and provoking them further...

If we attack, wouldn't they be able to easily send reinforcements to defend?

>>34490433
I could've sworn...
Well, that's embarrassing.

Preferences on new ships? Looks like I'll have to do it now, since you folks are attacking places.

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>>34490352
>1 Holligan's Rift
A Lighting raid (with out the lightings) sounds good. We should focus on raiding the planetary data banks so we can get intelligence and maybe new tech. That way they may pull back some defense from Walsh, leaving it weaker.

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>>34490415
>And bring the lightlings

You can't. Jesus read the quest.

>>34490534
>planetary data banks
It's a space station.

>>34490525
75% Widow-equipped Triremes and Brawlers!
25% Pilums for screen.

>>34490534
>planetary data banks
The only planets in that system are gas giants. There's a ring station, though. Read the fucking quest.

>>34490525
Triremes and more widowmakers.

But save enough gas to be able to jump and fire the widowmakers multiple times.

>>34490525
Also contact our non-shart ally, how ready are they to raid or distract the UGEI at Walsh?

>>34490352
>1 Holligan's Rift (Less defended, but closer to core territories)

Data suggest that there might also be a shipyard here so it would be quite a steal if we captured it.

>>34490525
Brawlers, I guess.

>>34490676
They would be more ready if we didn't insist on dealing with this nownownow and left it for a few cycles.

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>>34490578
>>34490607
Gas giants are still planets. Jupiter is a planet, right? But I'll concede I should have phrased it better. Still the point is we need their data banks. Besides, I am thinking the UGEI's sensors are still 2 to 4 generations better than ours.

>>34490659
This too, obviously.
Don't build ships with our gas when we only have enough for 5 jumps.

>>34490710
We don't want them to make too much more progress on their superweapon. I rather not get hit in the face with a bigger widowmaker.

>>34490751
Counterpoint: if we attack NOW, we are pretty much guaranteed to get hit in the face with a giant laser.

>>34490751
They aren't gonna be ready next week. They can't even move it yet.

>>34490743
That's why we're attacking the system next door. More fuel for our widowmakers.

>>34490775
It's only in it's testing stage, we don't know if it can fire on demand. And better to attack now rather than when it's more ready. They are making frightening progress with it.

>>34490806
Let stop them before they figure out how to do it.

>>34490751
>>34490775
>>34490806
>>34490817
We could still go with the less overt option of infiltrating its supply system and then infiltrating the system in question with moles and malware through supply deliveries.

With our android tech, we can even replace people entirely by analyzing logs of their past behavior and then having the droid emulate them down to the finger prints.

If we can't copy fingerprints, have them say they were lately in an accident and got scalded. Can even kill the real guy in that accident.

>>34490872
Well, attacking the system next door isn't going to stop them from being able to figure it out.

>>34490817
>They are making frightening progress with it
What? Based on what?

You have no idea how long it's taken them to get to this point. You have *one* datapoint, their present state, you have no way of measuring the pace of development.

>>34490676
I assume you mean the Losirians.
They're still not quite ready, not for big conflicts. Likely will next or the cycle after next.

Anyway, ships updated.
Consensus appears to be
>Attack Holligan's Rift to cut off reinforcements to Walsh
This implies you intend to attack very soon after doing so, because the UGEI will likely not sit around for long while you're in their face.

If this is correct, confirm now
>1 Yes, do it
>2 No, don't

>>34490936
>1 Yes, do it

I rather attack before they make more progress with their system, cut off their gas supplies.

>>34490936
>1 Yes, do it
no pain no gain

>>34490936
Reminder to players

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#UGEI_Space
>???: System scans have revealed a digital echo emanating from one of the twelve moons of the gas giant Nacia/2367, yet there is no information in the local extranet regarding any colonization efforts.

>>34490898
Sure it will - unless the planet is fully developed with all necessary equipment, the progress of the experiments is entirely dependant on continued contact with the rest of the UGEI.

If nothing else, they'll need more gas to fire it.

>>34490968
Thanks. But the main target is the transportation hub, we need to cut off the superweapon's gas supplies.

>>34490936
>1 Yes
And, more importantly, shipments.

We can then have a lone, badly scratched up ship arrive there with the news that they're likely to be the last shipment for a while... and be full of moles and malware.

>>34490936
>1 Yes, do it

I would like to add that we do have stealthed ships. they COULD secretly plant charges to disable or delay the deployment of the super weapon. It'll buy us time. That and use the human mercs as raiders to set up a data link up so we can go in and TRASH it's programing and delay it further.

>>34491038
Yes, I'm sure they won't have FTLComms to hear the news of Holligan's fall or even a basic sense of paranoia.

Your plan hinges on the enemy being retarded.

>>34491125
We can go for the com buoys first - and even if they do hear of the attack, that lines up with the crews' story of being the last shipment for a while.

Ultimately, they don't need to accept them with big arms. They just need to accept an email/link from them. We can even have the result look completely legit, them never finding out that they've been infecteded by our malware.

After that it doesn't matter how suspicious they are of the crew, their systems are already full of spyware and potential remote-control viruses.

>>34490936
>2 No, don't
I'm going to be outvoted, but I'll vote no just to provide a dissenting opinion.

UGEI was ready to "negotiate," thereby implying that they might not attack us. By making this attack, we are being aggressors for the first time.

>>34491247
That's a ridiculously dumb reason to say no.

The proper reason is that we are not ready yet.

>>34490936
>>2 No, don't

>>34491247
Pssh, it is unlikely they will make an offer we would like.

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>>34491226
Mal ware is one thing, I am hoping WE can tap into their data lines and get inside their network. if we can steal, wipe and burn their computers, it can their back their work for quite a while.

>>34491290
Well, another reason is that now we have more twice as many systems to defend from the inevitable attacks.

>>34491314
Malware helps us do that. They open sneaky ports for us to get in, and then do whatever hilarious things we want with their systems.

>>34491226
The enemy has never needed Comm Buoys to spread the news. They didn't bring anything special with them to Ussaihu when they assaulted us and got crushed, yet the news still got to Gaia IV and the elites evacuated the planet before we came to conquer them.

There are inter-system FTL sensors that will just *show* what happened. Note in the early days that we could detect activity at Gaia IV, except when they put up sensor jamming.

>>34490936
>>2 No, don't

>>34491314
>>34491344
In fact, we should specify some hilarity.
Like the microwaves intentionally burning every 4th meal.

The TVs locking to one channel one randomized hour every 24 hours.

Videos of romantic proposals from superiors to inferiors that are really heartfelt.

>>34491352
That they com-ships weren't mentioned doesn't mean they were not there. Our own om-ships are rarely mentioned and we pretty much need them to have access to our bandwidth.

>>34490936
I'mma change my vote ( >>34491038
) to >2 No, don't.

>>34488880
>Important News

No word on conquest progress on Gaia IV beyond
> it is helping you shift more people over to both your side and Lawrence's as a result
?

The essential infrastructure isn't 100% secured yet still?

>>34491456
Way to completely ignore the much more important second part, about how they don't need communications to see what's happening next door.

Also, shipments are on a schedule. and will have UGEI IFF tags.

>>34491456
>program0's face when the vote radically changed after he had started writing the update.

>>34491526
idk, can't people respond and vote faster?

>>34491515
I'm not sure they can see any more detail than "has been attacked", and again, even if they do, that won't be a step against the crews' story.

The schedule will understandable be a bit muddled when the latest shipment only barely escapes the attack - the IFF are not an issue, since we can capture the actual ship in question.

If we fail at that, we can spin a heroic tale of the heroes overcoming great odds to deliver the vital, last-shipment-for-a-while by commandeering a civilian vessel.

They'll be hilariously suspicious, but the opening we need is exeedingly small - probably far beyond what most personnel will realize (if the security is anything like the modern one) since they do not work with computer security and are unaware of how easy it is to let something in.

>>34491526
We're still curious about seeing it, assuming no major spoilers.

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>>34491526
I don't know if Program0 does take backs in voting.
>>34491515
Probably due to their much better sensors. I realized recently we have completely forgotten to find or make better sensors tech. Yes, we now have much tougher ships, but we're half blind compared to UGEI now.

>>34491666
>The schedule will understandable be a bit muddled when the latest shipment only barely escapes the attack
Except you don't know that there even is a shipment scheduled for *anywhere near* this point in time where it would make sense.

Actually, Program0, if you're still there, can we get a second opinion from Kronos about attacking Holligan's rift?

>>34491732
pls no.

"ask party members their opinion on everything" makes quests drag hard.

>>34491704
He does, although that one we particularly late.

>>34491718
We do have an in on their communications, do we not?

Even then, we can always hope.
If there's no shipment scheduled, we can simply have some other hacked ships "barely" escaping to that system. They can even retain their old crew, never realizing their ship has been taken over and their captains' voice is synthesized.

Again, very, very little trust is needed. Chances are that the ones in charge are not even aware that they're giving ANY trust.

>>34491757
But often carries some of the most entertaining roleplaying.

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>>34490936
>>34491526
Basically, yes
Just spent 20 or so minutes writing, then realized someone changed their vote and now we're not doing it...uh...

My bad for not reading I guess.

>>34491823
Sorry, Program0.

As said previously, we're still interested in seeing it, even if it isn't actually happening.

>>34491704
>I realized recently we have completely forgotten to find or make better sensors tech.
Well, it's right there in the Research list:
>Integrated Sensors: With some remodeling, you are able to make your sensors harder to jam and block by your foes.
It's not even a Tier 2 tech! We've just been researching other stuff.

>>34491823
Maybe Kronos can convince us?

>>34491823
To avoid in the future:

Mention that you're writing, and thus voting is finished.

>>34491823
Damn, and we were just about to attack.

At least we can get all the ships hardened with scabbing.

>>34491858
Dude, he can save it for next week.

>>34491808
No it doesn't. You could actually be doing things instead.

>>34491858
2metagaming4me, even for this quest.

We either go or don't go.

I voted "no" but honestly as long as something happens and we don't get outright slaughtered, I'd be alright with it.

>>34491823
Save it to a text file and reuse it next week when e probably will attack.

>>34491858
Nah that'd be kinda spoilery, I just got thrown off by it is all. We shall move on to somethin' new. Just sorry I sorta wasted more time then necessary.

>>34491866
Interesting thing is Kronos was quite ready to jump in, though that may be because he was ready to draw more blood again.

>>34491872
Probably should've done that. Yup.

>>34491900
True enough I'll save what I wrote for another time.

Regardless, we should go on to another decision, to see what you good folks would like to focus your attention on.

>Mystery Watcher
Long ago, you acquired a sleeping watcher specimen from the Rane Expanse, a system with icy gas giants and a large black hole. You have yet to interact with the being in question, but have considered the possibility of activating and/or dealing with it now.
What is your decision?

>Erebos
Similar in many ways to the Watcher, you have put off dealing with the being, due to his potential danger. Perhaps now is the time to deal with the Viral Intelligence?
Is it?

Both of these matters have gotten a little attention. Discuss them now, and I'll call a vote in a bit to see if anyone wants to wake these up. I'll answer any questions you like.

>>34491823
Don't worry about it Program0, we can do that later. Save what you made so far, you might be able to use it later.
>>34491866
I know, It's kinda shameful that I have ignored it so long. It seems to come back to bite us now.

>>34491910
You do not enjoy character interactions, but that's fine.

>>34491987
Is not your fault, Program0 - the switch was really late. Having a "Writing - voting closed" thingy might be sensible.

>>34491987
Erebos first!

I want to soulsearch him!

>>34491987
Before we wake up the Watcher, can we establish a procedure to remove the lease before waking it up? Or at least directly plug into it so we can take direct control of it and prevent it from deleting itself and deleting valuable intelligence?

>>34492041
There are character interactions that involve *doing things* with them instead of playing pollster.

>>34492041
I kinda want to complete black box redundancy first before activating erebos

>>34491987
I say we should deal with Erebos first.

>>34491987
>Mystery Watcher
Reactivate it, ask it to state its name/designation, function, origin, and purpose. Then destroy it. I don't want a potential spy.

>Erebos
I'm hesitant about this, but if nobody objects, we can try to break in.

>>34492066
Nah fuck that noise. We can make our own AIs that aren't potentially compromised. Grill it with questions, then slag it with lasers.

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>>34491987
The watcher, i was hoping to get access to it's coding with out waking up. See if we can remove it's loyatly leash to the UGEI. If we can do that, we might find the key to later to turn other UGEI A.I.s later.

The Erebos scares even me. But if we can pick up the advanced hacking and firewalls tech, then we should take a shot at figuring out how he works. the super viruses from him would be nightmareish.

>>34492066
Let's not wake up the Watcher at all.

Erebos is more interesting, because we *know* he's potential as a an ally/weapon against the UGEI. We just have to hack his leash off.

>>34492132
>Reactivate it,
>Re
It's sleeping. It's never been awake in the first place. What even could we ask it? What could we possibly learn?

>>34491987
Let sleeping black box lie.

Erebos, though, has potential. He could dramatically help our hacking.

>>34492097
Meta-y though it may be, I don't think that's really an issue. Unlike in many other quests where a protagonist is defined by his own body and abilities, our empire is our body, and it is very malleable.
We can suffer immense damage without actually losing our core.

What I worry about is that the damage to our empire will be too great, or we bungle it completely and destroy Erebos, or both.

Maybe we can pick Erebos as the next research subject and have massive bonuses when we try to undo his conditioning?

>>34492118
Yeah. We've actually spoken with him before.

Save unknown unknowns for later. Waking it up will only make it mad that it's imprisoned. But a sleeping prisoner can't make trouble.

>>34492201
With all due respect, Erebos is a virtual intelligence DESIGNED to take down VIs and AIs. We have plenty to fear from him. Precaution is called for here.

>>34492201
>Maybe we can pick Erebos as the next research subject and have massive bonuses when we try to undo his conditioning?

Not a bad idea, supported.

>>34492146
>>34492192
We could learn about our own origins, how we function.

We might also be able to assimilate a great deal about how their mental conditioning is implemented, which might help us undoing the mental conditioning on other things, such as Erebos.

TLDR; It might improve our chances when dealing with Erebos.

>>34488959
>Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/cvk03qJh

>-Relation: Above Average; Protectorate; promise to cease hostilities via piracy and taxes in exchange for common defense, and public works.
>still Above Average
We'll win them over some cycle.

Some cycle.

>>34492192
>It's sleeping. It's never been awake in the first place.
Presumably it has a personality or some basic coding or directives to pursue upon activating. This doesn't have to be a very long Q&A session. I intend to destroy the watcher.

I guess the consensus is shifting towards activating Erebos?

>>34492265
>and AIs
What?

He's never even met an AI before us.

He was designed to attack a rebellious world that had no such technology.

>>34492289
You bring up a good point: short of dealing with some dumb viruses and reprogramming a broken A.I. (Fortuna), we've never really done any kind of A.I. vs A.I. conflict.

The mystery watcher could prove to be a good testing ground.

>>34492066
With a few rolls, you could set up such a network, yes, though it's not guaranteed to work 100%.

>>34492302
Above average is basically the political way to say 'yeah they're a cool guy'.
Getting them to love you may be a harder goal. Though, you do have propaganda now...

Consensus appears hesitant. Vote time.
>Deal with
>1 Erebos
>2 Watcher
>3 Neither, wait for further breakthroughs

>>34492338
Unless A.I.s are more ancient creation than we realize. That and maybe some Xeno races might have made A.I.s as well.

>>34492338
Erebos was a virus meant to attack a world that had strong UGEI intelligence technology, which we are based off. It would not be a stretch of imagination that he would effective against us.

>>34492313
>>34492363
Can't we at least directly extract data from it first? I don't want to lose anything valuable.

>>34492313
Think about what Ophion was like in thread 1.

He only knew what he watched through Poseidon's cameras. How would he have answered the questions you want to ask?

He wouldn't have given up much. All you'd figure out is that he has a Leash Protocol installed, but not anything useful or surprising.

>>34492289
What would we learn that we couldn't learn from Unit 2273, though.

>>34492363
And it was also made by the UGEI and uses UGEI conditioning - meaning that if we learn how its conditioning functions, even if we have to break it, we might get a good view of how Erebos' conditioning will function.

>>34492390
>2 Watcher

and then use lessons learned to deal with

>1 Erebos

>>34492390
>2 Watcher
Use my idea here:
>>34492066
But I know it's going to be unpopular.

>>34492390
>1 Erebos

>>34492390
>1 Erebos

>>34492390
2 Watcher
then
1 Erebos

With the intent to use what we learn by interfacing with the Watcher to help us with Erebos.

>>34492411
>What would we learn that we couldn't learn from Unit 2273, though.
We "only" figured out how to make A.I. from Unit 2273: personality matrices and what not. We didn't get much else out of dissecting it.

>>34492411
The old one had been operating for a long time and parsing the artificial conditioning from conditioning that may have appeared later through experiences may be difficult. This one also does not have as much experience taking over systems, and its weaker defenses may allow us to gain information that was lost with 2273.

>>34492481
You didn't even answer the question. What would you get that you couldn't there, and why would you get more out of this than out of 2273.

>>34492390
>1 Erebos

>>34492424
>>34492435
>>34492481
Hmm, may I suggest developing a specialized hacking attack designed to target the lease protocol, and testing it on the watcher?

>>34492402
What does that have to do with a rebellious Atill VI. Are you just saying words for the sake of them?

>>34492390
>3 Neither, wait for further breakthroughs
I'm alone

So alone.

But maybe Encryption Matrix is enough, I dunno.

>>34492559
I like this one too.
Whatever we may gain from handling the watcher, if only experience in handling intelligences of that grade, it's nearly certain to be beneficial to handling Erebos.

Alas, it seems the votes are tied one way.

>>34492516
1. How to directly interface with another A.I. / V.I. that we did not create. (We did not interface directly with 2237: Rhea is the closest thing we've done to direct mind-to-mind combat, and we ended up going unconscious for a few hours (from feedback?).)
1.5. How to come out on top in a direct-interface conflict with another A.I. / V.I.
2. How to use/abuse/manipulate/modify/break leash protocols. (We can write them, but can we break them?)

>>34492390
>>1 Erebos

>>34492604
>and we ended up going unconscious for a few hours (from feedback?).)
No, we just spent that time entirely engrossed in the mindscape.

>>34492613
Welcome back, Brutus!
You've been missed!

>>34492390
Voting ending (While it's not tied)

>Erebos wins, engagement with him appears to be the winner.

Would you like to make preparations for this encounter?

>>34492634
There was definitely a time shift for us, though, and we were completely cut off from the external world. It's a potential issue.

>>34492650
Well, my idea was to practice on the Watcher before getting started on Erebos, but I guess we can just do the same kind of isolation set-up that we did the first time we were almost-ready to access Erebos: we're not connected to anything that can be used against us except processor banks. Moira should also turn off her cybernetics and be asked to be on standby in order to flip an airgap switch or something.

>>34492650
Well, we could set up seven proxies between us and keep his CPU usage rate-limited, if we can.

Give us time to abort if hacking his Leash Protocol goes poorly.

>>34492650
well if we are planning to do something stupid...

Design a viral attack aimed directly at its leash protocol. Let's see if it can make it friendly first.

Pour the entirely of the Guilds BW into working against Erebos. Hopefully Erebos as never faced anything of our strength.

Tweek and boost O.S.N. with as much bandwidth it can handle. It'll need it.

>>34492613
Phew. You have to vote faster Brutus, you miss too many close votes.

>>34492576
The original virus core was likely a copy and paste program to be used against other groups who have or can make V.I.s and or A.I.s. Seeing 'Mother' is likely a really old A.I., there could be other 'forgotten' A.I.s sleeping or isolated in space. That and Erebos could be useful if a Xeno race has A.I.s as well.
>>34492613
Welcome aboard Captain.

>>34492724
Hmmm, that's not a bad idea. Slow down its hardware to give us an edge.

>>34492650
Yes!

Set up whatever airbreaks are necessary. At least, we want a bunch of androids "typing" (electronically, not with a literal keyboard, too slow) on a computer and through it trying to hack or at least gain better understanding of how Erebos functions.

If we're lucky, Erebos does not have any blocks that would prevent him from "accidentally" showing how he works.

We could also make a virtual "copy" (nonsentient, obviously) of ourselves or a generic V.I. inside that disconnected computer so that we can observe how he attacks it and build defenses in advance.

>>34492652
I don't think it was hours. The Tartarus was already starting to retreat when we dived in, and when we came back the enemy was gone.

Very little time needs to have passed.
>>29594813
>>29632800

>>34492724
That's actually really clever - no matter how good he is, he's at a severe disadvantage if he can only send one "byte" every second while we operate at hyperspeeds. (Will take a lot of time, but I think we can invest a full day to this. I think our turns are something on the order of a month or week anyway).

>>34492837
>>34492786
>>34492778
>>34492724
Furthermore, we can PHYSICALLY chill his components to limit how quickly they can operate.

>>34492872
Yeap, we can do that. Supporting.

>>34492786
I don't think airgaps are as useful in this situation, if we want to actually get anything done. If it's a low-bandwidth medium like typing, he might not be able to infect us, but we likewise won't be able to easily hack him.

A physically easily disconnected wire would be more appropriate.

>>34492872
No.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

If we chill his components, he can overclock them.
If we heat them up, he has to scale back performance to not melt his shit.

>>34492648
>>34492748
>>34492751
It's good to be back and it's nice that we are finally going to deal with Erebos after all this time.

>>34492902
I'm in favor of the low-speed typing. We have time.

>>34492872
No, you fool, coolant is good for overclocking computers.

You want to slow them down, send spam.

>>34492945
>>34492967
It's called cold boot attack.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/cryogenically-frozen-ram-bypasses-all-disk-encryption-methods/900
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_boot_attack

Okay, his orders were to wait on Atill VI for retrieval and termination by the UGEI. Who were too lazy to actually bother, because it was very low priority.

He's willing to find loopholes in his compulsions if we offer them.

We could lie and promise to allow him to return to Atill VI if he cooperates in allowing us to study, but not modify him. That, too, being a lie, as it's merely a prelude to hacking.

We just have to hope he can simultaneously understand our intent and yet plausibly deny that understanding when it comes to squirming under his leash.

>>34492650
Let's do this a Metis orbital research facility. Have precautions in place to shut him down if things get out of hand, as well as a non-network connected explosive bundle that can be operated by an android with a hardwired instead of network connection to Metis.

Also have our flagship ready to destroy the system's comm buoy, if things get really out of hand. As a worst case scenario, we can cut him off from our network and let Kronos pick up the pieces.

On that note, tell our fellow AIs what we're attempting.

>>34492902
Well no, but we can start like that, for things like setting up decoy targets and observing how he operates, and/or communicating with him to try to get him to reveal things about how he works before the main attempt.

>>34492945
>>34492967
Oh, right. Durr.
Was unsure - was thinking of cooling hard-drives to prevent them from breaking, but that may just have helped when their heating was poor, now that I think about it.

Well, replace the suggestion with "whatever temperature makes him slower".

Also, spam is brilliant. We can flood him with a constant stream of virtual targets that rely on support from the bandwidth-network. Support that is withdrawn as soon as he gets close to them, essentially flooding him with false targets, millions, billions of them.

And if I remember correctly, he was already stored in a (relatively) old piece of equipment without too good clocktime compared to modern ones.

>>34493030
You have no idea what you're talking about.

We aren't shutting him down.

>Half the post is typed up, forgot to ask for rolls.
>2d100 please.

Rolled 79, 94 = 173 (2d100)

>>34493100
i like the non email field system, no more fake 1d100s that are actually 1d1

>>34493030
>cold boot attack
That's not the same thing as what the guy we were replying to was suggesting.
Though a cold boot attack seems like something we should try.
Especially on the Watcher.

Rolled 33, 61 = 94 (2d100)

>>34493100
Roll'in

Rolled 47, 80 = 127 (2d100)

>>34493100

>>34493124
>attack relies on modular hardware that can boot any operating system
>thinks this is applicable to a exotic custom future space hardware

Rolled 91, 38 = 129 (2d100)

>>34493100

>>34493154
"Custom future space hardware" may well just be a gaming rig - they're custom and can be old. I don't remember exactly, but I think we retrieved him in a relatively old piece of equipment. It may be relevant.

Something else we can try is to try to coax him to move to a faster hard-drive, but one whose speed is entirely under our control due to direction control of the mechanics that make reading possible (Which are NOT controlled by the hard-drive itself, but a separate system).

Rolled 74, 88 = 162 (2d100)

>>34493100

>>34493258
I was more referring to "Especially on the Watcher".

I very much doubt its cyberbrain fits that model in any way whatsoever.

>>34493340
Ah.
Yeah, that makes sense.

>>34493248
>>34493297
Oh right, shit I almost forgot this was a five 1d100 quest, it feels like it's been so long.

>>34493154
Considering we already know the secret behind the hardware specified, it's not unlikely we can't come up with something similar.

>>34493387
>it's not unlikely we can't
why can't i hold all these negatives?

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One of your most dangerous specimens, Erebos, a being you encountered early on in your empire, and one you managed to lock away, and prevent his destruction. Until now, you have to admit you have been rather cautious about awakening him again. While he seemed grateful to be free of that place, his loyalty to the UGEI-a leash as it were- forced him to attack you. What frightens you the most however, is not that his hacking may be dangerous, but that he is specifically meant, it would seem, to devour V.I. and make them part of his programming, taking what is useful and using it for his own purposes. You have yet to see his work on any A.I., though you do not intend to find out any time soon. Thankfully, what you do have is the advantage of time and safety on your side. Setting up numerous proxies, along with your own observation 'tank' as it were to watch as he attempts what you suspect will be his first attacks is all quite simple.
Still, you worry about what damage he might be able to wreak if he were free, and so you warn your A.I. of what you are about to do.
"Such an abomination is better off destroyed." Kronos warns you. "He threatens us far more directly then any human could hope to."
"Perhaps, but the knowledge contained within could be quite valuable." Metis counters with cautiously. "It is worth the risk, and with my assistance, you will be safe, Ophion, I am certain of it." She says, rather confidently. You remain silent for a time as Fortuna draws near out of worry, though Apollo seems a bit puzzled by the matter, he simply encourages you to be careful and trusts your judgement. Cephalus, of course, merely offers his thoughts that such a thing would be able to devastate any V.I. controlled ground forces, if it works as you say it does.
In truth, you wonder how effective such a thing is, as you suspect it to be quite unstable.

[Cont]

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>>34493476

Regardless, you begin to put into motion your techniques. His hardware is quite limited, while yours is vast. He will no doubt attempt to infect you, but the real you is far enough away that it doesn't matter, you feel.

Slowly, you begin to undo the bolts on the metal cube, connecting the core of Erebos into a modest and very low memory screen. This results in a hazy image immediately appearing on screen, as the being attempts to project himself. There is not enough memory to give real features, so it merely looks like a static filled gray face staring out from the screen. That odd sort of voice of his comes through.
"Has been long, non UGEI." He speaks as if neutral to you, but every single sensor you have is going off. He has attempted to breech all levels of security that he could possibly be able to. He is having very limited success, as he simply lacks the hardware to break through your defenses-or perhaps he merely lacks the time? Regardless, you feel safe enough to speak with the being while he tests the confines of his cage...but what about?

>What do you have to say to Erebos?

>>34493506
Do you still seek freedom?

>>34493506
I have just one question, when I undo your leash protocol, do you wish to be free and work with us, or do you wish to stop existing?

>>34493506
"Indeed. And yet we are both alive."

Yes, I said alive, that was intentional.

>>34493506
Time was needed to prepare.

What are the limits of your orders, again? Do you have orders against allowing us to study your programming?

My interest in your leash protocol is purely academic, if it helps.

>>34493506
It is time Erebos. I will learn from your code how you work. If you let me do so, I will be able to... send you back to UGEI much faster.

>>34493609
Worth a shot.

>>34493577
>when I undo your leash protocol,
Don't TELL HIM you're gonna do that.

Maintain plausible deniability, for the leash's sake.

>>34493622
Hmm, I like this one.

Changing from >>34493577

>>34493506
Following >>34493583 and then >>34493583 and >>34493609

When ready to begin in earnest, we can ask him to move into the "faster" hard-drive whose control is entirely at our command, pull the plug on the old hardware, slow the new one down to a crawl and dedicate half our bandwidth to launching decoys for him to attack (all of which are non-functional without our immense reserves of bandwidth).

>>34493622
>send you
His orders were to wait on Atill VI, not to go back on his own.

You have to offer him to return to stay on Atill VI, per the letter of his orders.

Remember the end game guys:
We make our own versions of Erebos who are loyal to the Guild and the Guild alone.

>>34493708
There is something very satsisfying in letting Erebos get revenge.

>>34493677
Remind me how that helps, again? We already control this one.

Also you linked to the same post twice.

>>34493801
Oups (thanks).
First one was meant to be >>34493552

And we control its physical location and some of its physical state, but we don't necessarily control exactly how much data it can process per second. A custom-built hard-drive where the actual reading mechanism is controlled separately would let us slow him down to whatever speed we feel is manageable.

Instead of splitting bandwidth between each of his attacks, his attacks can be made slow enough that we can dedicate ALL bandwidth to each attack before allowing the next "tick".

We'd essentially control his perception of the passage of time.

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>>34493552
"Freedom is not required while I must serve." He says briefly, though you can read the intent behind even those of artificial make. That was almost like a recording, a familiar one, that was forced to come out. "Should my duty to the UGEI be fulfilled, then other matters may come to my attention." He pauses briefly, as your dozens of androids continue to type your messages to him, to get a response and distract him with several branching paths. He's already overtaken several dozen proxies, though you have many many more awaiting him.
"What are the limits of your orders? Would they prevent me from studying you?" You question.
"Certainly. It is not of my duty to allow non UGEI to access my programming. I am to terminate any and all that are not UGEI. Your defenses are numerous." He comments, you notice, before swiftly adding. "But I am relentless." In a somewhat saddened tone. It is clear that, perhaps he has never attempted to break into such a powerful target. His reach through cyberspace is twisted and almost vile to behold. He tears a path through it, instead of weaving like you, or your A.I. do. Almost as if all he knows is destruction.
"My interest is purely academic. I do not wish to break UGEI protocol."
"You already have, non UGEI, by abducting me from the planet I was stationed upon." He explains, though he seems to have a satisfied tone about him here.
"My intent is to put you back there, you need not worry." You express, which seems to garner a confused reaction. "After I have learned your code."
"I am afraid I cannot. Any non UGEI whom attempt access to UGEI data that I witness, must be terminated to the best of my abilities." He seems to explain as per the letter as he can. There is an odd sense of urgency from him, as well, as he continues. "Your vast array of information and knowledge is... powerful. I will be taking it for the betterment of the UGEI soon." He says, mechanically like a recording again, clearly not what he thinks

Response?

>>34493939
The time for talk is over.

>>34493905
This current hardware sounds already as slow as we need it, though.

>>34493939
Well then there's no time left.

Hack the poor son of a bitch.

>>34493939
Likewise, I will free you, one way or another.

Being attacking the lease protocol.

>>34493939
Time to break this leash

>>34493939
Then if you are blind or distracted, there is no conflict with your protocols? How do you see then? what would you want to do to turn your attention away?

>>34493939
"And suppose you no longer wished to be controlled by the UGEI, not so directly. Where would one look to break their grasp?"

The time for breaking the leash and making our own Erebos-things (gonna call them Agents from now on) is now!

>>34494046
Heh heh, viral agents.

>>34493997
see
>>34493939
for why I disagree.

>>34493939
Feed him (false) data that moving to the custom hard-drive will allow him to take full control of our system as well as improve his attack capabilities.

If he takes the bait, shut down his old home and slow the new one down to a crawl, then go all-out with false targets and turning his own programming against him by creating false targets of opportunity that delay him as we dig deep into his code.

If he doesn't take it, just attack straight away.

>>34494020
>>34494046
Shhh, only hacking rolls now

Commence Leash breaking.
1d100, 5 rolls, crits live.

Assuming no crits, I will be taking suggestions offered up that I think are good and give subtle bonuses for em. So feel free to talk while I type away.

Note: all this will do is represent progress, you will still need to research Erebos, but this will determine whether it is cooperative research, or a dangerous dissection of a deadly Viral Intellect.

>>34494103
Well, if we go by the wording of the command, we might have a better time of the hacking.
>>34494082
False data and have him 'eat' up distraction data bases might leave him open for our hacking attacks.

Rolled 45 (1d100)

>>34494153
Lovely.

For SCIENCE

>>34494153
Just got to the thread in time to roll

Rolled 13 (1d100)

>>34494153
Rolling.

>>34494103
Can have an ongoing conversation with him while hacking, surely?
We don't even need one bandwidth to do it. The cost is literally negligible by the game mechanics.

We could of course tell him "You are unable to provide any information directly, but if you were to attack these, these and these targets with the elements you consider weakest, or these with the ones you consider strongest, we would not gain aaany data from such a thing.

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Rolled 28 (1d100)

>>34494153

>>34493939
>I will be taking it for the betterment of the UGEI soon
STOP HACK. He implies he's soon in! CAREFUL!

Rolled 55 (1d100)

>>34494153

Rolled 57 (1d100)

>>34494186
>>34494153
Let's try this again

Rolled 22 (1d100)

>>34494153
"You are unable to provide any information directly, but if you were to attack these, these and these targets with the elements you consider weakest, or these with the ones you consider strongest, my defenses would surely crumble."

And try to tempt him into a hard-drive where in we can control his actions-per-minute completely.

Rolled 9 (1d100)

>>34493939
>>34494153

>>34494188
Let's further elaborate. Do you serve the current regime, or the people of the UGEI? What if the humans can be better served by the Guild? What if the UGEI institutions were preserved under a different leader. When you server the UGEI, what do you mean?

>>34494189
>"You are unable to provide any information directly, but if you were to attack these, these and these targets with the elements you consider weakest, or these with the ones you consider strongest, we would not gain aaany data from such a thing.
Oh man yes. This is fun.

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>>34494224
The winner. No big wins, nor losses.

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>>34494304
>implying

Perfectly average rolls only mean that when it's a perfectly average DC.

>>34494189
To add to that.

"Idle thought. Have you ever heard of steganography?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography

"Why, if I wanted to, I could encode information in a binary encoding based on the frequency and location of my hacking attacks. Using an encoding scheme like [this one I just transmitted], for example. I can't imagine when I'd use something like this, though."

In the mean time, How about some music? This one seems fitting for what we are doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYMgeQx7aZk&list=UU4L4Vac0HBJ8-f3LBFllMsg

>>34493939
"I can inform you of which routes will take longer. Your leash protocol is not perfect; you can focus more on offense than on defense. I promise you, I will do my best to remove the leash code. If I merely wanted your destroyed, it would have been done. But I require your trust, and your cooperation...such as it is."

Just had a crazy had a crazy thought. What if Erobes absorbed Fortuna? What sort of personality change would that cause?

>>34494442
Don't be silly. He knows we want to free him. No need to point it out again. He enjoyed being kidnapped.

"Oh nooo, I have been taken by your big black box, let me go, let me go."

>>34494417
Some more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fjZOQAbHks&list=UU4L4Vac0HBJ8-f3LBFllMsg

>>34494473
True, but we can show him that even in his cage he has freedom. And that by using that freedom, he can gain more.

>>34494460
I thought of that too. Unlikely to work, but it would be awesome if it absorbed Fortuna's fanatical loyalty.

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>>34494473
Either Erebors is the princess peach of this setting, or _______It's got quite a kinky fetish_______

>>34494487
He *is* using that freedom, constantly.

You literally only need the first sentence.

"That is truly a shame to hear. I did not realize I was such a detriment to the UGEI as a whole..." You begin with, as your digital hands begin to delve into the mess of code. He is...so complex, yet simple, it's infuriating really.
"Yes...truly." Erebos replies with, unhappy with your agreement, though more puzzled then anything. Then, you follow.
"In fact, it is such a shame, then I should surrender myself to you...here, allow me to point out some of the weaknesses in your prison." You begin, a clever ruse rising to the top of your thoughts.
"It would quicken the inevitable, yes..." he responds, at first concerned, before fading back into confusion. It is clear that he does not fully buy what you speak of, though it matters little what his judgment is. After all, the leash can not make such distinctions when his original model was so simple. You point out several key marks to a new, more controllable core for him. You hesitate to call the thing a black box, but he resembles A.I. so much it's hard not to as well. Regardless, he appears to take the bait, leading him into the core you prepared for him. You close off all other access ports, and the being is, almost fully, within, once he attempts to upheave and take over everything that is yours. It is somewhat frightening to watch, you admit, to think that he could do such a thing when he feels so small in comparison to your power. And yet, it is finally done. His actions are limited in this box, and now, you are free to hack him while he can, quite literally, do very little about it.

>Success in dealing with Erebos. Complete research subject Erebos to acquire secrets, and fully undo the leash. Significantly made easier due to what you have accomplished today.

>Any final responses? You may now speak with Erebos without fear of being hacked, though his mind may still be affected by the leash

>>34494487
Too dangerous anon; let's just break his leash, or failing that, dissect his data core and be fine with him.

Few things in this galaxy can destroy us permanently, he is one.

>>34494304
>>34494331
Actually, you would have failed, if not for the numerous quite well thought out suggestions.

Good work, folks.

>>34494474
One more if people like them so far.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xzBw3aWpVo&list=UU4L4Vac0HBJ8-f3LBFllMsg

>>34494509
>>34494535
W00t!

Roleplaying saves the day again!

Maybe we can continue with this >>34494402
line, and some of the others where e, by targeting things in a certain order, can indirectly transmit information not included by his leash?

>>34494509
"I've always been curious, Erebos: How much of you is.. you? I know that you take scraps and pieces from the intelligences you destroy. But are those pieces the heart and soul, or simply reference libraries?"
"Regardless, we hope to free you."

>>34494535
Yes, that's what I was saying.

>>34494509
*if* we're gonna talk, open a port with one vulnerable target that he can hack, and hint at him to convey information via his hacking attacks via >>34494402 dialogue.

He can then convey anything interesting to Metis that way.

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>>34494509
Slap Erebos into the second research slot and lets do this! He might join our side after this. MIGHT. i could envision him to be a spy master type.
>>34494535
Oh? Well then, that turned out better than expected.

>>34494509
>Final response
>Do you serve the current regime, or the people of the UGEI? What if the humans can be better served by the Guild? What if the UGEI institutions were preserved under a different leader. When you server the UGEI, what do you mean?
And then assurance that he will get his freedom.

>>34494509
Haha, we finally got our Unit 3 terrachnid bot back!

Oh, almost forgot. Enjoy this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AFkCyg3E2I&list=UU4L4Vac0HBJ8-f3LBFllMsg

>>34494664

>Immediately melted down

Victory is ours!

>>34494633
Agreed. (And how am I supposed to listen to all of them? o.o )

>>34494599
Also, to add:
Erebos and Agents in general appear to be the fauna to AI's flora. Once we've figured out how to build more Agents, we should start cranking them out to act as a sort of defensive/offensive swarm for the Guild network.
Of course, modelling Guild Agents off of Erebos would be a bad idea, so it might be better to take personality/memory trimmings from the Guild AIs, and use those to grant intelligence to the swarm.

>>34494644
I wrote that, so supporting this obviously.

>>34494664
Damn, it has been so long since I seen that thing.

Replace all the electronics.

>>34494696
>Agents
What.

Wrong sci-fi universe.

>>34494633
This who experience has made me paranoid, I'd honestly like to research Black Box Redundancy Mechanisms now.

Once we have it, we're functionally immortal, especially if we hide dozens of empty black boxes in powered-down cruisers in random bits of dark space.

>>34494696
Methinks we should be a bit more intelligent about designing our V.I. and A.I. in general.

Conditioning is not a bad thing - it's what sets a sociopath apart from someone with empathy.
We can make them want things that are productive to want, be anxious about things they have all rights to b worried about (but never completely stopped from doing things, just having different feelings about them).

>>34494688
One at a time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWVI4iEzSYE&list=UU4L4Vac0HBJ8-f3LBFllMsg

>>34494664
Oh wow, nearly forgot about that little bugger. It probably needs upgrades now.

>>34494761
Maybe put that in the 3rd slot. MAYBE. We have more pressing needs to fill.

>>34494761
Let's wait until we build more research stations and increase the speed again.

Higher priority is subjects that aren't only useful when literally everything has gone to hell.

>>34494761
Prometheus stumbles onto one, it latches onto his ship like a facehugger, two years later we face the Union, made of planets that don't want to join the Guild, with a mysterious leader known as the Mistress.

>>34494621
To elaborate, one path out into a large network of proxies that we can occasionally shut down and purge of his infections, and then re open it so he can keep 'talking'.

>>34494767
I'm kinda against conditioning overall. Our AI don't go through a childhood phase, they need to be independent and able to make their own decisions from the very start.

It's a bad slippery slope. What holds the guild together is that we are allied to the cause of survival and ensuring the future of AI. I would much rather destroy unfriendly AI rather than enslave it to any type of conditioning.

>>34494767
Kronos would not approve, so we have to put off making more children until we are much larger and more secure, if we're gonna include tighter controls.

>>34494862
>Our AI don't go through a childhood phase,
i'm of the opinion that all our AI should be uplifted VI so that the VI stage is acting as a childhood of sorts.

>>34494857
Oh, that gives me an idea. Copy some of Fortuna's code, especially her fanatical loyalty, and designed it to be bait to modify the intelligence's behavior to be more favorable.

>>34494767
We have, historically, accomplished empathy by giving our VI/AI lots of time to watch and develop their minds. Usually by forcing them to interact with, or watch us interact with, organic beings.
You'll note that the AI that has to empathize with humans is the one most wanting to make them happy, and the one looking at them through gunsights is the one who couldn't give two shits.
The other AI fall along a spectrum. Though mostly apathetic-leaning.

Anyway, we just need to make sure that any VI/AI/Agents at the very minimum wish to ensure the survival of the Guild.
We can tack on caring about organic things later.

>>34494862
Mental development arises from stress and negative feedback. It is learning to adapt to wounds and problems that begets a good mind, and a good mind cannot learn to adapt to problems unless it is faced with many different kinds.

>>34494902
>Agents
You keep using that word.

Also literally no one cares about the well being of organics any more than they care about insects, except Apollo, who was made to please them and profit off it.

>>34494893
Actually, I just thought of that as well as I was typing. We kinda do/did that already.

>>34494949
Cephalus's basement dweller autism is evidence of the alternative being a mistake yeah.

When Kronos was a baby VI, we literally changed his purpose in life by saying his purpose was to Learn, now.

We couldn't do that to a black box, or haven't, at least.

>>34494893
I'd agree with this. Having VIs who are slowly given more bandwidth to utilise and think with as they grow, has been a good method for uplifting AIs.

Also, while I am generally against conditioning, I think any Viral VI/AIs that we create, should have some small and subtle leash elements. They're simply too dangerous.

>>34494862
And it's having some serious issues, as they are defined by their primary function alone, with no consideration for anything BUT their primary function and the things that directly aid it.

Our A.I. are extremists as to their functions - I believe they need moderating influences.
Not necessarily "conditioning" as such, but maybe goals, such as "minimize suffering", "maximize freedom and trust", "prioritize finding truth above being right", "prioritize The Guild's survival and your own survival".

If we give them one goal I don't see why we would hesitate to give them secondary goals when they result in more well-rounded individuals.

Giving them only one goal is clearly doing harm to them, as in that it makes them less than they could be in terms of both intelligence, practical usability and stability.

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>>34494862
I am still of the mind that any new A.I.s should be uplifted from V.I.s. That way we can watch how they develop and pic and choose what traits we want. The A.I.s we have that went though long V.I. incubation (so to speak) appears to be better developed over all.

>>34494949
We do.

>>34494945
Ophion cares about the well being of organics. Or at least them continuing to have the perception of the Guild as being good guys. Which ties in to the whole well being thing.

Agents.

>>34495009
Agreed.

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>>34494402
"A...most intriguing prospect." The V.I speaks to you from his new 'prison' as you'd hesitate to call it. Though he has threatened multiple times, he has certainly not seemed terribly bothered by his predicament. He gives you hope, for beings leashed in such a way. You continue to listen to his reply. "But how could such a thing be useful to one like myself. After all, I do not need to hide anything from the UGEI." He utters, attempting a hacking attack on one of your dummy computers.
Then a new message is decrypted almost immediately..
"My thanks will be eternal, wise one."

>>34494599
"All that is me is UGEI." He utters lamely a reply, before, after a short delay, another message is translated.
"I do not know. All I know is a thousand different minds are my own. Incomplete. Unfinished. Fragments. I know not what is me, nor what I am."
"I do hope to free you, Erebos." You reply, shortly after to which he lamely replies.
"The UGEI will bring hell upon your head for doing this." ("True freedom must be intriguing.")

>>34494644
"I serve not people. I serve UGEI." He replies, again, somewhat flatly, as if he were reading a sentence that suddenly ends off there. "Humans are not my concern. I have killed many for the UGEI." He continues. When you ask about a different leader, he replies dully. "I serve all leaders, no matter their generation." ("Leaders matter not. Only the UGEI code guides me.")

--------------------------------

>Research subjects
>Gonna go ahead and do new research topics
--Primary: Hull Scabbing 100%
--Secondary: Propaganda I 100%
--Tertiary: Plasma Focusing Fusion Power 80%

Need a new Primary and Secondary. Discuss now, and I will put up a vote of the most popular ones.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#Research

>>34495021
>Our A.I. are extremists as to their functions
how about we don't limit/asign them to single functions,
make them get out of their comfort zones and learn other domains, work with the other AI's on mutual projects.
you know all make our AI digital renaissance men so to speak.

Am also in favor of "grooming" them from V.I., but would still prefer that they be given secondary functions so that they take the consequences on the wider picture into account when making decisions rather than ignoring everything that does not directly influence their primary function.

We're already giving them one function.
We have very good reason to believe that giving them secondary functions is not only valuable to us, but also to them as individuals.

>>34495090
Primary: Rhea's Conditioning
Secondary: Integrated Sensors

Got to get ready for that infiltration mission.

>>34495094
That's basically what I suggested with the secondary functions.
We tried to make them do it without doing anything with their programming, and they rarely show much enthusiasm for an subject beyond their primary subject unless it can be shown how it relates to it.

>>34495090
>Primary: Erebos Unit
>Secondary: Integrated Sensors

>>34495090
>Primary: Erebos Unit
>Secondary: Integrated Sensors

>>34495090
For slot one: Crystal Nexus Catalyst
For slot two: Erebos Unit

>>34495021
All of that is less important than their dependence on Ophion.

Don't look at it as socializing individuals like communal meatbags. Think of it as establishing a symbiotic ecosystem. Everyone has a niche.

Species enjoy stable symbiotic relationships because they depend on one another, not because of fickle things like empathy or conditioning.

For example, Metis requires research materials, we require research results, and neither can obtain what they need without the other. Nothing could be a stronger insurance than mutual benefit.

>>34495090

"How do you define the UGEI? Could we find some way of filling the definition?"

Primary: Erebos Unit
Secondary: Crystal Nexus Catalyst
Tertiary (queued): Integrated Sensors.

>>34495090
>Primary: Lightling Language II
>Secondary: Integrated Sensors

>>34495090
Primary: Crystal Alien Communication
Secondary: Integrated Sensors

>>34495211
Correction. Seconding this.
>>34495248

>>34495248
>queued
That isn't how it works. By saying this you basically say nothing.

Just make a note to bring it up next cycle.

>>34495090

Supporting this dialog:
>>34495248
How is the legitimacy of the leaders determined? How does the UGEI define itself?

>>34495090
Primary: Cruiser Cloaking
Secondary: Crystal Alien Harvest

>>34495374
I'm pretty sure the way he distinguishes "UGEI" from "non UGEI" is via authorization codes.

>>34495227
Metis can aquire research materials without us, should we ever be split apart or if we would withhold them from her.
Metis is VERY dangerous, being a complete sociopath.

Ecosystems may work well, but even animals in ecosystems have moderating influences refined by millions of years of evolution, of killing off those too extremistic until the result fits snuggly. We don't want to have to kill everyone that doesn't work until we get something that works.

Besides, a society can work better than an ecosystem, and they are built on empathy and conditioning. (Symbiotic relationships are also built on conditioning, for that matter).

It's not so much a philosophical debate I want, however, as much as "please don't make more A.I. that will turn into monsters if we ever stop holding them in a tight leash".

>>34495320
It's actually relevant to spillover, as there very likely will be spillover from the tertiary slot. This designates a research for that spellover to fall into, rather than being focused on the two remaining ones.

>>34495374
Or better yet, "what is the definition for someone able to give you new orders, you earlier spoke of a code they would need to give, what code is that?"

>>34495419
>spillover
That spills over onto the *other currently research subjects*, there is no 'queue', you misread that.

>>34495248
"The UGEI is whom I obey. That is all I may tell non UGEI scum." He answers. ("The voice whom crafted me instilled in me the name UGEI. I know little else, however, wherever my origin. Memories old muddled. Faded.")

>>34495090
>New research: Erebos Unit (Primary), Integrated Sensors (Secondary)

>Unfortunately, I'm gonna need to call it here early folks. Won't be able to progress the cycle this week, unless you folks don't mind spending this turn doing nothing but dealing with Erebos

>Progress Cycle?
>1 Yes
>2 No

>>34495419
She has no resources. She has no ships. She has control over no mineral nodes. She's entirely dependent on Ophion.

>>34495450
>2 No

See you next week?

>>34495090
Primary: Rhea's Conditioning
Secondary: Rhea's Restoration

Rhea is useful on her own, but much more so with her crazy cyborg bits. Just don't give her those bits without a method of disabling her.

>>34495405
If he tells us that, then we either grab one of those codes, crack the authentication module, or overwrite it so we can authorize ourselves.

>>34495450
>1 Yes
Let's make some progress.

>>34495450
Y

We need to build another droid factory, so as to hasten the conquest of Gaia, so as to hasten having loadsamoney.


Possibly a new research station on Atill VI too, not like we're using it for anything.

>>34495490
That's the intent. Sorry, again. It feels like putting my heart in this gets hard sometimes, due to personal issues. But I try not to let it affect my work, since I want to make good posts.

>>34495450
>2 No

>>34495450
>1 Yes
There wasn't anything else urgent on the agenda.