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>>33211600
Current Date and Time: Noon on October 6th, 1952PC

>You have 1 FR point

>Note that the first two posts of the opening update are a repost from last thread for context.

As you leave Ahm, a reminder from Alyce that she wants to talk to you more by sending over the coming weeks about the potential alliance. It’s a reminder that this trip, in spite of everything else that happened, was primarily about whether you ally with Alyce. It’s a big decision to make and you’ll need to consider all of your other options first.

Thinking of other things, you’ve picked up a particularly big one. Two, really, if you count Corrfax. Taira’s presence and allegiance to you may make your relations with the Six-Star Alliance more complicated. Tsucchi will almost certainly feed the information back, if Taira doesn’t tell Ren herself. Given that Tsucchi has informed you that the council of the alliance is in the midst of deliberating how to cooperate with you, it could mean things change rather rapidly.

The trip is mind shorter as a return trip – Taira simply teleports everybody, including the carriages, to Taour and then Harrowmont, over two days. As you approach the fortress, the walls are manned and the soldiers alert – something is in the air and you signal to everybody to get ready. Taira has an odd look about her. You are about to ask her what she can sense when you enter the main gatehouse of the fortress and it hits you.

Power. Overwhelming power, like nothing you’ve felt before. It hangs over the entire fortress, almost oppressive in its very presence. You sincerely doubt that there is anything that could unwittingly let out such ambient energy.

>continued

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>>33211625
Something powerful is in Harrowmont and it wants you to know its here. Several of your knights salute you stiffly, fully armed and armored, as you step out of the carriage in front of the keep. Many of the defenders are spread out in small teams across the courtyard, as if in expectation of magical assault. You step inside the keep, not willing to let yourself be intimidated – though you are fully armed yourself. You cannot surrender Harrowmont so easily, merely because something else sits in your throne.

And sit on your throne it does – a massive cloaked and armoured figure almost twice your height sits lazily on your throne, one hand resting on its knee. The cloak is made of heavy leather and flickers with unfamiliar runes and the armour is made of magical plate thicker than your own armour. Its hood is an impenetrable mass of darkness. All of the power you felt earlier is nothing in comparison to what sits in the being before you.

The Archangel of Life, Raphael, is here to talk to you about your levy for the Barrier of Marie, it would appear.

You blink. How the hell had you known that? You look over the behemoth-like figure sitting in your throne as your comrades fan out behind you, not that you think they’ll be doing much. Perhaps they’re merely getting out of the line of fire? Looking at Raphael more closely you still don’t quite understand how you know what he is. You can feel the power and it feels odd in an indescribable way, yet your mind seems to parse that as ‘Archangel’. He doesn’t even appear to have any wings.

Then he shifts in your throne and, despite the darkness over his face, you can somehow tell you’re being sized up. Nothing is said or done for several long seconds as you return the gaze with more will than you thought you could muster. You realise that you need to say or do something but your mind is blank.

>What do you say and/or do?

>>33211643
"I suppose you're here about troops?"

>>33211643

"That's my chair"

>>33211643
"That's my chair"
Sternly. You don't insult a ruler in his own keep.

"I believe you're sitting upon my throne."

>>33211643
"Why are you here now? I was expecting you to show up for quite a while before."

>>33211600
>Pastebin
>Currently, you do not know how to regain FR points. Rest assured regaining them is not trivial and they should not be burnt lightly. Your FR point pool will not restore to maximum at the start of a new thread or arc but only through the narrative mechanism that will be introduced later.
we actually figured this out last thread

>Userscript for Suptg
sadly only works on firefox and not on chrome. but it does work for FF

Also, a lot of times I find myself missing the first one or two votes even if i am right at the PC waiting for an update. (since we usually don't start exactly at 5).
May I suggest in the future that the reaction to first response request have a little longer than usual for voting?

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>>33211755
>we actually figured this out last thread
I saw that from a reply on Twitter, so I noted that in the OP.

>sadly only works on firefox and not on chrome. but it does work for FF
A shame for Chrome users - the userscript is awesomely useful. Makes my life much easier.

>May I suggest in the future that the reaction to first response request have a little longer than usual for voting?
I've been doing that all along.

Planning on going through the pastebins when I have time.

>>33211755

>New general bin (though it hasn’t been updated with the FR point regen details)

>>33211745
funny, I was going to suggest the other way around "I was expecting you later"
or even
"that saves me a trip, I expected to be the one who would travel to visit you, not the other way around"

that being said, the "this is my chair" comment seems to be a "don't want to appear weak"; aside from being empty posturing (he is way stronger than us, and dammit we are more shrewed than that and have been intentionally downplaying our power for a while), and besides we also don't want to be hostile. As such I would suggest a more friendly approach

"Raphael, what a pleasant surprise, just the angel I wanted to see. this certainly makes things easier"

>>33211643
"Greetings Archangel, but I do believe that you're sitting on my throne. If you would vacate it, we can get on to business."

>>33211828
I mainly say earlier because Talon admits a archangel could pop up at anytime and he wouldn't be shocked given he has a source. So I would think he would expect he would get a visit at some point.

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RESPONSE VOTE
>1. "You're in my chair. That's not how this is done." Seize the initiative - you're not one to show weakness to opponents, even if they are one of the oldest and supposedly powerful beings alive. It's still your castle.
>2. "I suppose you're here about troops?" Neutral and questioning. You'll retain your composure without appearing too hostile or worried.
>3. "Archangel Raphael, this is surprising. I hadn't expected to see you for some time." Friendly but gives the appearance that you're not really surprised. Surrenders the initiative outright which may work against you if he is hostile.
>4. Custom

>>33211643
casual greeting please. no need to be all submissive in our own castle

Rolled 12

>>33211967
>>2. "I suppose you're here about troops?" Neutral and questioning. You'll retain your composure without appearing too hostile or worried.

>>33211967
>1.

>>33211967
>>1. "You're in my chair. That's not how this is done." Seize the initiative - you're not one to show weakness to opponents, even if they are one of the oldest and supposedly powerful beings alive. It's still your castle.

>>33211967
>casually state that its your chair
No aggresiveness or submissiveness please

>>33211967
"You're in my chair. That's not how this is done."
wait are we saying this aggressively or what?

>>33212009
there is nothing submissive about being friendly and acting like there is nothing WRONG with him being in our chair...
actually the options are given are more about initiative than submissive/dominant.

>>33211967
1

>>33211967
Seeing how the vote is going.
2

>>33211967
2.

Dont provoke the guy who can rip our heads off and will know damn well our secret right now. I bet he can feel the uniqueness of harrowmount and Talon.
Having said that, dont back down.

>>33211967
>you're in my chair
not the second part please.

>>33211967
>so... why are you here?

>>33211967
are we even sure hes here about the troops?
anyhow
>2

>>33211828
Specifically the reasons we actually wanted to see him:
1. Our goals align: One of our long term goals, aside from conquering this continent, is to take on and exterminate the shadow beasts, and then resettle the northen part of the continent (a huge track of land going to waste at the moment). The wall must be maintained until then and that means support, and as we know, the current major powers are shirking their duty to do so.
2. Conflict harms both: Any conflict with him is self defeating for both, militarily any losses he takes fighting us weaken the wall. Individually, killing talon would be bad for him politically with the other powers, cause the york empire to fragment and collapse so he gets no aid. while killing raphael (as unlikely as it is) would risk the integrity of the wall. So really, there is nothing to be gained from conflict with each other
3. We could benefit each other: Talon could learn a lot from him. We want the wall to be maintained. And we can offer more than just troops.

>>33211967
>1

>>33212143
>killing talon would be bad for him politically with the other powers
remember, this was discussed on why it would be bad if talon assassinates other heads of state. it makes everyone else hostile
>cause the york empire to fragment and collapse so he gets no aid
which he really needs since we have independently acquired the info that both the RSK and Magi league are shirking their levy, lord ember went on a killing spree damaging the third super power's ability to provide their levi. and the mage guard is having serious political issues. Everyone is saying "not my problem". very bad long term

>>33212143
Frankly i think our best bet would be to send a contingent of arcane archers. Its unique to us so they will stand out (making recruitment easier), their insanely valuable as garrison troops, we can expect most if not all of them to come back, and when they do they will be very very experienced.

>>33212200
>implying they'll come back

>>33212208
Troops are rotated out on a regular basis on any front.
Having permanent troops is a brilliant way to have a mass rebellion and everything going to shit.

>>33211967
>1

>>33212200
You are thinking too small
do you know what the greatest thing is about arcane archers?
their equipment is more than an order of magnitude cheaper and faster to manufacture!

We could equip every archer on the wall with AA equipment even one not belonging to us. If it is proven effective against the shadow beasts it would be revolutionary. And we could stipulate they don't take the equipment back with them to their nations of origin (although it will naturally come out eventually. i mean, taour already captured some in our fights

>>33211967
>2+1
I dont care just fucking start writing.

>>33211967
/tg/ and their OCD
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThisIsMyChair

>>33211967
>1

Probably too late but voting anyway

>>33212278

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that immediately thought of this.

>>33212258
That is a great idea, but one that will be outright rejected out of hand if we don't PROVE it works with a contingent first.

Remember, the angels give no shits what is in the continent so long as they can continue their war.

>>33212258

Well, I'm not against that on a principle, but that's going way beyond what they are likely to ask for.

We'll need to secure some favors and guarantees for that to happen.

>>33212340
we need the archangel more than he needs s to be honest.
he gets a maybe, we get assured power training

>>33212278
>not realising how much of an insult this is to a ruler

>>33212340
>but that's going way beyond what they are likely to ask for.
which is why we should ask for things in return.

>>33212325
Yes, it would need testing. We don't know for sure if it is as effective against shadow beasts as it is against knights. If we are upfront about that we can defer full dealmaking until after those tests are done.

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Sorry about the slowness, the bizarre emphasis on just saying ‘it’s my chair’ confused me and I'm also a bit out of practice.

>1.

“You’re in my chair,” you say flatly.

The entire hall falls silent and you see Sarah staring at you in horror from her position near the entrance to the underground levels. Raphael straightens up slightly but does little else – not that you give him much time to react before continuing.

“This isn’t how this is done,” you continue. “When you visit a lord, for any reason, they sit in the throne and you posture and threaten them. I’m not sure I see this working the other way around.”

There are several long moments of silence and you swear that the Archangel is actually thinking your absurd proposal over. You hadn’t meant to keep talking like that but even your composure has its limits – better to look the fool than a belligerent idiot. At least in front of something so powerful.

Then, with no fanfare or words, Raphael stands in complete silence. Which he then breaks by stepping forwards and towards you, his enormous plated boots slamming down on the stone floor and echoing throughout the silent hall. You pull yourself together and walk towards your throne at the same time, your comrades hurriedly following you. As you pass the archangel you can feel a vaguely resonant power reach out and brush you but the feeling vanishes momentarily.

>continued

>>33211967
>1 takes initiative
>3 surrenders it
really? I figured it was the opposite
if in 1 he says "no" then what? we totally lost all initiative
while in 3 we gloss over the chair thing and seize control of the conversation by immediately steering it towards cooperation and mutual benefit, with specifics we name.

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>>33212423
Then, right after sitting in your throne, the hall lights up brilliantly. An enormous nimbus of light blasts out from Raphael as a set of glowing white wings protrudes from his back. The wings are hawklike, if an order of magnitude large, and extend across much of the hall along the same scale as his body. They stop short of touching any of your men, who recoil backwards as the wings suddenly appear in front of them.

Raphael extends his arms wide, the runes on his armour glowing brightly in sympathy with his wings and he says:

“Tell me, young master of this great stone, what will you offer me to make me leave you be?”

His voice is like the boom of the great drums you heard once back home at a harvest festival, each as large as a small house. It seems to echo within your head, rattling your thoughts. Yet, somehow, you can hear faint echoes of another language than your own – and it’s not even the local tongue but your original tongue. Does the Archangel know where you are truly from?

Little matter now, you think. You need to respond and quickly.

>Response?

>>33212325

I'm agreed with the trial run idea.

That said, I don't think we should outright state what the AAs are. When they excel beyond duty it might just be chalked up to us knowing how to train some Archers/Magic and then they'll want more, then we are on terms of "asking for favors.

Does anyone else think Felix might want to go to the wall? Just based on the whole "proving his own strength" thing?

>>33212441
What do you want?

>>33212441
I'll make you an offer not to just make you leave but one that will benefit us both.
mention arcane archer in return for favour

>>33212441
tell him that both you and him share interests in keeping the shadow beasts out and that you wish to make a deal to benefit you both.
Also mention somewhere that you have nothing against him...besides sitting on your chair.

>>33212441
"First, as a guest, i should offer you something to eat and drink. But since i doubt this will be one of those meetings, i will instead make a blunt offer"

Then go into the mutual beneficial idea with the AA's

>>33212441

>"What makes you think I desire you gone? I am so honored by a visit by the Archangel Raphael, and I've yet to offer to break bread, or speak of pleasantries. I have my chair back, now we must observe all other traditions before we 'talk shop' as it were."

>>33212552
This

>>33212441
>thinking we want him gone
fuck that, we need him to teach us about how to use our powers.

>>33212441
See if we can focus on those echoes of another language. It might be a hidden message, or else when he speaks his intent is sent out in waves that we can read.

>>33212599
Hes speaking in Talons true, native tongue.

>>33212441
oh wow the archangel can speak all languages
jokingly tell him that you wish you could do the trick

>>33212441
>what will you offer me to make me leave you be?”
There we go. Very dramatic, and impressive threat.

Leave me be? That would be a missed opportunity for the both of us, there is too much for us to gain from working together, and from fighting, nothing but losses for our both
(see the points in >>33212176 and >>33212143 )

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VOTE
>1. Ask him what he wants.
>2. Offer him the use of Arcane Archer tech to arm the troops on the walls.
>3. Let him know that you don't want him gone - there's more for the two of you to gain by working together.
>4. Talk more about pleasantries and a proper meeting rather than business.
>5. Custom

>>33212649
>3. Let him know that you don't want him gone - there's more for the two of you to gain by working together.

>>33212649
>3 & 4

I think those two meld together well enough.

>>33212649
>4
>1
>3
>2
in that order.

>>33212649
4

>>33212649
all of them, none of them seem mutually exclusive

>>33212552
>"What makes you think I desire you gone? I am so honored by a visit by the Archangel Raphael
I like this
>and I've yet to offer to break bread, or speak of pleasantries. I have my chair back, now we must observe all other traditions before we 'talk shop' as it were."
Eh, his time is pretty valuable. If he turns that down we lost momentum.

>>33212649

3 and 2

>>33212649
3.

Also, not a vote but
>2. Offer him the use of Arcane Archer tech to arm the troops on the walls.
This one was actually suggested as an augmentation to the troops rather then an "instead of".

>>33212702

The latter part is a more, slow your roll type of statement. I get the feeling he either intimidates those he deals with into just giving him their part and he's off or people just want him gone so quickly they respond to with 'here just take it and leave'.

Keeping the initiative by throwing off his presumed usual game with us mortal types.

>>33212649
>1>3>2

>>33211967
>4

"Get Fucked"

>>33212807

Midori pls go

>>33212649
lets throw off his game
>4 which leads into the rest of them

make sure he knows we don't want him to fight for us since I bet he gets that request alot

>>33212807
Mdorin pls no. You already fucked up again.

>>33212649
I'm going to have to agree with
>>33212675

>>33212791
if that is the case, we might want to clarify as I already explained why he has nothing to gain from fighting us earlier

1. Assassinating heads of state like that is bad for business so to speak, makes him too many enemies. and he hasn't killed the others who are not sending him troops (although from his phrasing he might be discussing our ownership of the source)
2. Killing talon would collapse this little empire that is actually WILLING to do its part to hold the wall and knows how important it is; while all the major sources of troops are drying up (we could list what we know here about the various powers not giving their levy)
3. Any damage we inflict on them weakens the wall and is counter productive for us.

>>33212917
this.

>>33212917

I don't see any indication yet that this would come to blows. Don't see the need to outright mention it, especially to an eternal being.

>>33212649
>3+4 leading into 2
unless we're getting trolled and he doesn't want help and is after the source instead.

>>33212649
that AA thing is just one of the things mentioned in prior threads that we can offer (depending on what we can receive). But there are a few more things that come to mind.
If we are already negotiating.

>>33212649
My problem with 2 is that his quesiton was
"what will you give me to not kill you". Not "what could you give me". Any offer we make should not be "i will give you those things to not kill me", but actual negotiations because there is much they could do for US as well.

>>33212649
Do 4, fuck being a pussy and giving him stuff to leave us alone. Either mutually beneficial or he gets nothing

>>33212962
He explicitly said "what will you give me to not destroy you"

We asked him to
1. get off our chair
2. to posture
3. to threaten

he is adhering to our request to the letter.
Actually might want to throw in a bit of levity here.
like in >>33212632
>There we go. Very dramatic, and impressive threat.

>>33212632
>>33212649
Can we do this Asp?
the dramatic line sounds FUN

>>33213036
>“Tell me, young master of this great stone, what will you offer me to make me leave you be?”

No he didn't. He's playing the game. You're reading too far into it.

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Trying to provide multiple different answers to one question doesn’t really work for the competence angle, fyi. You generally try to let the other side respond first.

And damn, I am out of practice for such a short break.

>3

“Well, what if this ‘young master’ doesn’t want you to leave? I’m all for drama and ostentatious threats but really, it helps to know they’re threats before you say them,” you say, trying to keep your voice level. It’s harder work than you expected. “I think we have much more to offer each other than a mere one-time offer. You have the Barrier to think about and I would be just as happy to keep it stable and away from my own affairs.”

Booming laughter, or what you think is laughter given how strange it sounds – like a man beating a drum repeatedly – resounds throughout the hall. Raphael would likely be grinning at you, you feel, if you could see a face.

>continued

>>33213085
1. he first lit up the entire hall and caused most people to cower, he is also speaking in cooler reverb now
2. How the heck is "what will you offer me to leave you be" anything BUT a threat?

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>>33213142
“That is exactly what I was going to lead into, Talon York,” he says, saying your name for the first time. The whispers of another language fade when he states your name, and it is stated with one voice rather than several like the other words. “You have comparatively little to offer to me as is – but I can see much about you that is potentially great and that is what I need.

“Strong stable powers provide the levy I need to keep the Barrier intact. This war and instability serves nobody’s ends,” he continues. “Whatever you offer me now pales in comparison to what I want you to offer me and what I will need within a few years to hold the barrier.”

“A few years?” you say cautiously. “And what if you don’t have ‘what you need’ within a few years?”

“Then I will take the levy forcibly,” he says, all hints of joviality gone from his booming voice. “The barrier was formed to protect the earth still unsoiled and I will not let petty conflict ruin that. Not after the sacrifices already made.”

Then he falls silent for several moments while hurriedly think. Before you can answer he says one last line, “I do not have much time – I did not plan for this visit. Say your last piece before I go, for I have expressed my interest in you and my hopes.”

>Last response?

>>33213172
I offer you new technologies that may help your fight against the shadow beasts at the wall along with the usual retinue of solders.
In return I wish for... (let players vote)

>>33213172
"A contingent of new type of archers, a test to see if they are suitable for the barrier, as arms can be provided if soldiers from my own lands are scarce"

>>33213172

Damnit, already going? Harrowmont doesn't have enough soldiers yet, so for now, onlya token force will be sent. It will increase as the empire grows.

Also knowing how common soldiers are supposed to help in fighting the motherfucking shadowbeasts would be good.

>>33213172

>"Then I send with you my faith and hope with my soldiers, as comparatively few as they are."

I really don't think we need to outright state the AAs are superior. Let's surprise an old being.

>>33213172
I am thinking one of the followings
1. Ask him to take some AA for testing to see if they work against the shadow beasts, and so we can get info on how to modify them to better work against shadow beasts (perhaps make special arrows just for them?)
2. General suggestion we could perhaps help earlier than a few years from now.
3. Ask if we can be in contact
4. Ask about the PoP in their territory
5. Isn't the wall supported by the source/pops? Would empowering the source with a pop risk disrupting it, or allow us to further reinforce it? or have no effect whatsoever?
6. Training under him? Maybe only while we are fighting by his side at the front (which we can do on some down times thanks to the teleporting assisstance from taira)

Wait how many languages can we speak?

>>33213365
7. Ask if he knows WHAT talon is

>>33213394
Seconding the HELL out of this.

>>33213365
>>33213394
Right, so, we only have time for one more.
So how about

>I think we might help each other even earlier than that. For example, we have developed a new type of weapon which is revolutionary in terms of cost, rate of mass production, and effectiveness. How do I keep in touch with you for further discussions?

>>33213172
well QM probably won't let this for PLOT reasons but might as well.
"Do you know what I am?"

>>33213394
>>33213490
>>33213498
I will laugh if he says "yes" and leaves without telling us what talon is.
should we rephrase?

>>33213498

>"Do you know what I am?"
>"Yes"
>Archangel vanishes without another word.

>>33213559
>>33213562

Ok good point

Rephrase to, "What am I?"

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Talon can speak several languages, as he's been across much of the continent. There's not that many, perhaps four or five across the south and most know the RSK's main tongue (it's considered the trader's tongue).

>tech offer

“I have a new type of archers that may aid you in your fight, though they may need to be tested to see if they can help you in your fight,” you say, wanting to see if Raphael will bite.

“Then perfect them first,” he says without any delay. “What you possess now is no doubt meant to compete with the mage-knights, the development of which was a great boon to mundane warfare but of little value to me. If, however, you can offer something on par with the great bows of the Godling-Knights or the rumours I hear of Malataine’s new archers then I will be interested.”

“They would be going with any soldiers I was to send soon,” you say, thinking a little on how dismissive Raphael was of mage-knights.

“I will reiterate – I don’t want or need your men or aid now,” he says, pulling his wings in tight around his body. “I will visit you in a year, or you can visit me at The Last Retreat should you have need.”

Sensing he’s about to leave you ask one last question: “Are you not going to say anything about me, personally?”

>continued

>>33213498
okay change this to
"Can you tell me what type of being I am?"

>>33213588
DO we really want to ask this in front of everyone?

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>>33213601
There’s a pause and you hope your intent got across, even if you were unwilling to speak more clearly so publically. Then-

“Discover yourself before you come to me about that,” he says. “My ability to interfere in the natural order of things is limited but I can provide advice about things people already know of.”

Then his wings glow brightly and merge into his body before the hall erupts in a flash of light. When your vision and hearing clears there is nothing left of the Archangel save the echoes of his voice.

“Right,” you say, “what do I need to do to stop him ever teleporting in or out of here again?”

“You can’t,” Gnome says quickly. “Not even the Source can stop the archangel’s teleportation.”

You stare at her in surprise, having just blurted that out to clear your head. You remember Gnome seeming to know of the archangels, and Taira had said as much – perhaps they can provide more advice later. For now, you need to clean things up and get settled in.

>Anything to ask your companions before moving onto the tourney organisation?

>>33213633
well not like we didn't see that coming
No way in hell was Asp going to reveal what Talon was before thread 435676543456787654

>>33213633

No, let's get down to business.

>>33213633

That felt... Underwhelming. Fuck I wanted more.

Honestly I'm kind of good with moving on right now.

>>33213633
Ask Gnome if she thinks he sensed the Source.

>>33213702
TO DEFEAT THE HUNS

>>33213704
We all wanted more man. Too bad QM is out of touch so nothing we can do about it unless we had forced it into a fight which we would've lost.

>>33213633
Nope just either go get drunk or break something

>>33213633

Tournament time

>>33213633
>“Right,” you say, “what do I need to do to stop him ever teleporting in or out of here again?”
>“You can’t,” Gnome says quickly. “Not even the Source can stop the archangel’s teleportation.”
interesting
I was sure that in the last pop if we bound it to us we could do even that... but i just deemed it to be undesirable. since our goal is cooperation with them (if we bound it, and fought them, and won, we would lose from the shadow beasts).
I voted to empower undine instead knowing full well we will EVENTUALLY have to contend with angels in our sanctum with only the power of our diplomacy

>>33213725
>Ask Gnome if she thinks he sensed the Source.
AFAIK he was personally involved in shattering the last empire to hold this specific source

>>33213633
are we ever going to deal with the vampires?

>>33213759
I don't know about you but I choose Undine because we promised it to her. nothing more nothing less.
I won't have Talon turning into one of those rulers who breaks their word and gets betrayed.

>>33213838
chose*

>>33213838

To be honest Aspirational dropped a lot of subtle hints of things coming up in the near future where binding it to ourselves would come in handy.

We chose to keep character and hold that promise to Undine. Which I honestly preferred.

>>33213838
we promised her full power (4/4 pops) not this specific pop IIRC. There are 7 total.
And if someone powerful sneaks into the source they might seize it and she would be forced to fight us or maybe be killed (for good) and replaced by a summon of their own. So having at least one pop bound to the source/talon would be useful in preventing this.

>>33213870
I didn't know flat out telling us was considered subtle these days.

Hey Aspirational, just as a point of case, if you can squeeze in a sparring or fight sequence in here(assuming we don't get to the Tourney), that would likely help shake off the ring rust, I know it usually does it for me.

>>33213832
I hope soon, though I need to go find crazy possible theory about vampires again.

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Afte rthe tourney, I'll deal with the vamps, then the foces and then whatever afterwards. I might do a short fight scene at some point, too.

>tourney organisation

It takes some time for the chaos of the sudden and short visit by the Archangel of Life to quiet down. Once it has you collect your present cabinet members into the war room to talk about the upcoming tourney. While you wait, you decide to ask one quick question of Gnome.

“Gnome, do you think Raphael sensed that the Source was active?” you ask

“He couldn’t not,” she says, looking a bit grim. “That’s what he meant by ‘ruler of this great stone’ – both Samael and Raphael always referred to the Sources as ‘keystone’ or ‘worldstone’. I’m not sure why.”

You nod. That means that, for whatever reason, the Source being active wasn’t surprising to Raphael or a problem for him. At least on the surface – you doubt you’ll be allowed much free reign if you don’t play along. You’re really getting sick of powerful beings pushing you around.

Once your cabinet masses, plus Taira loafing around in the corner, you get right into business.

TOURNEY EVENTS
>One-on-one melee combat
The main event. Winner of this event becomes the grandmaster of your new royal knightly order.

>Familiar combat
Familiars duke it out. Mostly for entertainment purposes.

>Summoning combat
Summons fight each other. Probably the second-most important event.

>Mages blowing stuff up
Self-explanatory. A good way to attract battle-mages.

>continued

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>>33214103
PARTICIPATION

“The question is how open do we want to make entrance to these events,” Sarah explains. “If we limit it to your lands or existing soldiers and knights then you’ll guarantee loyalty but limit participation. If you open it more widely then it will attract more skilled participants but if they win then you may end up with a grandmaster that isn’t loyal.”

“Why not do two events,” Undine says. “One for existing soldiers and one for everybody – that way you attract many more warriors.”

“That could backfire if the winner of the open event appears better than Lynn,” you say, not bothering to hide who you think will win out of your soldiers.

“The other question is whether you are going to invite rulers other than those from Termina,” Sarah says. “There will certainly be lots of interest from the nearby RSK and Ahmnian nobles.”

You sigh. Far too many matters to deal with. On the plus side, you had a date for about a month from now – word was spreading so it was just a matter of finalising the entrance requirements and sending out invitations.

>Short discussion time on the tourney. Bring up any other matters on it now before I call any votes.

>>33213665

I think we are going to learn pretty soon.

>>33213838

Better watch out with that thought train. That's a fast way to get back stabbed the moment you make a promise someone can take advantage of.

>>33214103
>Mages blowing stuff up

Laughed hard. Confirmed best event.

Oh are we get an Archery contest as well?

>>33214120

Personally I'm for opening it up. But only to our immediate neighbors. We still have the independents in the north to deal with, so we could potentially open up some more formal talks with those fellas as everyone is want to do before taking action.

>>33214103
> I'll deal with the vamps

Oh, God here we go. The shitstorm of the ages coming up.

>>33213884
>forced to fight us

I'm actually pretty sure she would just do what Gnome did and switch sides because of the new master being worthy.

>>33214120

Hmm, the main event should be restricted to Harrowmont. The rest, anyone is invited.

>>33214120
Shouldn't there be an archery event and team vs team event?

>>33213951
>though I need to go find crazy possible theory about vampires again.
I like the theories, as well as the long term benefits of solving those problems with magic.

But it hardly matters for our dealing with them.
People have been arguing 2 things about the vamps
>They are not inherently evil so we can't kill them
>It would be really useful to have them.

there is a fuckton wrong with both reasonings
>They are not inherently evil so we can't kill them
1. While their RACE is not inherently evil. Taour wasn't just randomly converting innocents into vampires and then forcing them to do evil. Taour had a lot of unthralled humans in positions of power, merchants, nobles, mages, all working tightly with the vampires. Being promoted to vampire is probably the greatest honor bestowed about the most loyal. I am sure the records in their government (which we captured intact) can corroborate it
2. None of them defected despite the atrocities taour was commiting. Not before our war with them, not during. they had to have been beaten to surrender
3. We probably have tons of evidence against them with the government captured. we personally witnessed the two daywalkers we captured committing atrocities. (thralled a mass of civilians and had them suicide rush talon's team as a distraction)
4. We aren't a paladin. We didn't choose to minimize civilian casualties, instead we intentionally maximized civilian suffering to make our campaign easier and faster. (taken hiien, then raided their feeder provinces to cause starvation in the human population)
5. We already deemed all the nobles and merchants who aided the vamps go on the block. And we already spared the mage towers out of greed (and honestly they are more useful). although we killed the war mages who fought us).

continued in next post

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>>33214185
>Oh are we get an Archery contest as well?
Right, I forgot about that. Yeah, there's an archery contest as well.

>We still have the independents in the north to deal with, so we could potentially open up some more formal talks with those fellas as everyone is want to do before taking action.
I plan on doing the talks with the Terminan nations during the tourney.

>>33214224
>team vs team event?
I don't know what this one is.

>>33214267
>It would be really useful to have them.
1. In the grand scheme of things, they are really unimpressive compared to the other monstrously powerful beings around. The only vampires who gave us any trouble were a few daywalker elites.
2. Their population is very limited (both in terms of blood supply costs and in terms of reproduction rate)
3. Everyone hates them, this will be catastrophic politically (alyce wanted them gone, the dragon leading the mage guard, I shudder to think what the angels will have to say about that with what raphael was saying about natural order)
4. Our cabinet might revolt (literally for some of them)
5. Our popularity would be hugely damaged. could ferment revolutions. Look how badly the darlesia in its former glory was ruined by rebellions? look at the magi league? at the RSK? We cannot afford rebellions and the nobles of vitria are already pissed at us. last thing we want is to lose the "champion of the people" cred we have.
6. The people of taour are pissed as fuck at the vamps and we cannot control them (not without becoming as bad as them with massive bloodbath that will backfire badly)
7. the people of darlesia are pissed as fuck at the vamps (not without becoming as bad as them with massive bloodbath that will backfire badly)

>>33214120
Let's trust Lynn and the dicegods by allowing anyone to join Make it if they win than they have to beat talon to prove their worth but only do this as a suprise and only if somebody besides lynn wins

>>33214224

I could deal with this. Though it wouldn't encourage a lot of melee focused outsiders to come along.

I'd suggest this.

>Free for all Brawl/Melee on day one
>winner is allowed entry into TYE exclusive Single Round Melee on last day

>>33214273
Thinking we should do a grand melee. Something like open to all brawlfest.

>>33214273
What I meant by the team by team is basically a bunch of people vs another bunch of people (e.g. 4vs4). I WANT THIS SO WE CAN HAVE TALON'S TEAM FIGHT IN IT TOO AND TO SHOW OFF

>>33214291
>1. In the grand scheme of things, they are really unimpressive compared to the other monstrously powerful beings around. The only vampires who gave us any trouble were a few daywalker elites.

You need to read the spreadsheet that statistically stated how much a HMK Vamp can wreck shit.

>>33214273
if it isn't already implied we should have the ranger order recruit anyone they deem good enough from the archery contest

>>33214291
We may not be lawful good but that doesn't mean we should just kill all those against us.
Do you really wish to make the whole vampire race your enemy?

>>33214120
What is the point of getting a superior grandmaster who isn't loyal?
Our goal is not to create the most powerful knightly order, its to gain a powerful knightly order that is beholden to us.

The thing is, if we DO get a superior grandmaster, s/he might be MADE loyal and then everyone is happy. But we could have the position not be for life and have lynn defend her position in future turneys. I am sure she would like the challenge.

Opening it up might attract more international attention too, but I am honestly not at all sure if we want or DON'T want that.

>>33214291

There was a lot of discussion at the end of the last thread involving vampires and their incorporation into the Empire as a whole. Including possible means to "cure" the most evil trait that defines them. Going full genocide on a race is not the answer, nor will it ever be.

>>33214334
This sounds fun, we can use this chance to show off how overpowered Talon + co are to the other nations gaining us a stronger and better impression

>>33214304
>>33214299
I can get behind this

>>33214103
>both Samael and Raphael always referred to the Sources as ‘keystone’ or ‘worldstone’
nice diablo reference

>>33214334

I think this is the one time I don't want Talon to show off.

The Tourney is more of a celebration of the building and christening of an Empire. And celebrating the people that built it. Talon has already proven he is top dog, let his people win their own merit.

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PARTICIPATION
>1. Restrict the main event to The York Empire only.
>2. Restrict the main event to The York Empire only but run a similar event for others.
>3. Let anybody enter the main event (maybe with a surprise test for any victor besides Lynn).
>4. Have the victor of the grand melee be able to enter the otherwise TYE restricted main event.
>5. Custom

NEW EVENTS
>Archery contest.
>Grand melee/free-for-all brawl

I'm probably going to stick with just the six events. I don't want to get stuck in a tournament arc.

INVITATIONS VOTE
Both faction leaders will likely accept with potential consequences.
>1. Invite Archmage Alyce and King Fenix.
>2. Invite just Alyce.
>3. Invite just Fenix.
>4. Invite neither.

It's assumed you will be inviting the Terminan factions along.

>>33214291
They also can self reproduce unlike most of those beings.

>>33214339
Was like a 95 percent victory chance yeah. The biggest issue is keeping them undercontrol. Like 2 daywalkers or something is easy but a regiment of HMK vampires is another thing all together.

>>33214273
I kind of want Talon to start the archery contest by making 5 shots and then giving a money reward for anyone who can make the same shots.

>>33214465
>3 + 4 combine them
oh fuck if we invite both...
>invite neither
don't wanna risk it.

>>33214465
>4. Have the victor of the grand melee be able to enter the otherwise TYE restricted main event.

>1. Invite Archmage Alyce and King Fenix.

We currently stand on entirely neutral ground. Neither side will dare do anything other than give an extra pounding to those on the other side.

>>33214465
>4
>2

>>33214465
>2. Restrict the main event to The York Empire only but run a similar event for others.
>3. Invite just Fenix.

Lets make Alyce sweat a bit here.

>>33214465
>4 (3 if they somehow beat Lynn)
>invite both

>>33214465
>4
>1

Politics have to go both ways. It will be fun juggling them so they won't kill each other too.

>>33214465
inb4 we roll 3 20s and somehow stop the war between Fenix and Alyce

>>33214465
participation:
i vote 3 a grand victor could be made loyal and lynn would probably be better of from tasting defeat.

invitations
1 both don't wanna seem partial but make clear that all local leaders are invitet in the invite

>>33214380
>We execute these specific vampires for good reason
>Therefore the whole race is our enemy
We just crushed the only vampire nation in the world. I am not exactly scared of them.
Also, I maybe not made it clear. we aren't punishing them for being VAMPIRES
we are punishing them for actual crimes.

>>33214401
>Executing war criminals is genocide if they are all the same race because they all come from the same evil racist regime.
no, it isn't.
>I can't make a single counter argument on a single point, so i am just going to call you hitler instead.
way to argue anon

>>33214465
Time for some DIPLOMACY
we're so screwed on so many levels
>3. Let anybody enter the main event (maybe with a surprise test for any victor besides Lynn).

>1. Invite Archmage Alyce and King Fenix

>>33214588
>We just crushed the only vampire nation in the world. I am not exactly scared of them.

[Citation incredibly needed]

>we are punishing them for actual crimes.

Not ever soldier perpetrates the crimes that the rest of the army does. Some merely fight. Do you wish to condemn and otherwise innocent man that was either forced into service or doing as he was told? What if he has a family? A wife perhaps, and she so lovingly and kindly gives him the blood he needs to need. These are still people. We can't condemn an entire race for blanket term "war crimes".

>>33214588
>Killing all vampires on sight forever.

That and the random foot soldiers might not be all that bad.

>>33214339
>You need to read the spreadsheet that statistically stated how much a HMK Vamp can wreck shit.
1. super rare and expensive to field such units
2. still weaker than many other beasties out there
3. all died to a single magical attack. Do you think we are the only people in the world with magic?

>>33214666
>>33214667
So, what you are saying is that you didn't actually read anything in the post I have actually made?

>>33214668
>same cost as a typical HMK, just a vampire under the hood, simply another unit that will excel at frontlining
>so are MMKs, so are MAA, we field them regardless
>from Talon or Mal, remember they are OP main characters, in terms of warfare and combat they are still a cut above the rest of what is fielded

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Vote results are 4 and 1. I'll write it up plus the result of the vampire thing.

As for the vampire execute-or-keep discussion, I'm going to give you guys 30-60 minutes to bash it out while I cook lunch. Then I'm going to announce what votes I want to do (to allow any possible feedback) followed by contentious votes several minutes later. Then the issue will never be revisited without extremely good reason.

>Vampire discussion time officially starts now

I'll try to answer any questions that come up.

>>33214730

Can we speak to Tssuchi about the vampire theory before we make an actual decision on Vampires? If that's something we can actively pursue I think it will sway votes.

>>33214728
>same cost as a typical HMK, just a vampire under the hood, simply another unit that will excel at frontlining
1. HMK is expensive and rare as fuck
2. Just a vampire? Do you have any idea just how much it costs to feed a vampire?

>>33214667
>Killing all vampires on sight forever.
strawman
kill THESE vampires. Maybe not even ALL of them (but most)

>>33214763
A better question. can we actually raid their damn government and find if they are really "pure innocent victims whose families are held hostage who were forced to convert into vampires and fight for taour" or "the most loyal of the loyal to taour's philosophy granted vampirism as a gift and a boon"

>>33214768

>we have a HMK foundry in Taour, it will not cost us any less than it would have originally to field Human HMKs if we are inclined
>finding a solution for that, that's the biggest issue

>>33214730
fuck this vampire landmine.
all you guys are faggits
Before anything else we should get the opinion on the people of Taour
Instead of making arbitrary decisions either way, ASK THE FUCKING PEOPLE WHO HAD TO STAY WITH THE VAMPIRES

>>33214721
Talking more about the general kill everything idea. Genocide can work decently well but it also locks us in it. So any useful vampires would be pretty fucked.

Personally I would purge most of the officers on any charges we can make up. Then use the rest as rhetoric on us trying to solve the vampire issue forever though researching how they work. Which gives us more long term leeway around them. While also setting a precedent that we can kill them when we need.

>>33214821

This is a point I'd expect to come up actually. That and we can get legitimate claims from vampires, go out and find them without intervention, confirm or deny. There's a lot that needs to go into this before full on murder mode happens.

>>33214824
solution would be a stake to the heart
>>33214847
They hate vampires and want em dead

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>>33214763
Jeez, how did I miss that.

Long and short is that Tsucchi doesn't believe vampires are cureable but thralls are effectively cureable. She can't confirm it but vampires are basically replenishing their mana by drinking blood as they can't use ambient magical energy for some reason. Hence why the blood doesn't need to be fresh, merely magically preserved. There may be possible alternatives to blood.

>>33214847
>Before anything else we should get the opinion on the people of Taour
The masses will basically say 'kill all vampires and thralls without exception'.

>>33214824
>we have a HMK foundry in Taour, it will not cost us any less than it would have originally to field Human HMKs if we are inclined
Which we chose not to do because its too expensive anon.

>finding a solution for that, that's the biggest issue
Yes, yes it is. And maintaining an entire horde of vampires until such a solutioin can be found will be a bitch and a half. Meanwhile, drastically reducing their numbers for "warcrimes" while sparing a few who actually might deserve it.

>>33214847
I explicitly stated (and it was ignored) that the people will literally revult if we spare them. we are BARELY containing them as is from killing all the thralls and those ARE victims. we put ALL the nobles and merchants which supported the vamps (pretty much all the top ones in power) on the chopping block to appease the populace already and they are barely sated. they want every vampire dead. including members of our cabinet.
this applies to both taour and darlesia.
Vitria is more lax on the issue ... or would be if we didn't just relocate 30 thousand blood farm refugees into it. campaign on eradicating them. and have made the nobles mad.
And we had several powerful outside forces tell us how badly they want the vampires done with.

So, sparing them pretty much pisses EVERYONE off.

>>33214879
>There may be possible alternatives to blood.

So basically we create a Mana Potion in line with blood and we win Vampires?

>>33214879
>possible alternatives to blood.
interesting

>>33214920
>they want every vampire dead. including members of our cabinet.
by that i mean members of our cabinet want them dead

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Finally, some hard numbers on the number of captive vampires and thralls.

Nightwalkers - several hundred captured. Many are fledglings.
Daywalkers - a few dozen (<50). Ages vary but are generally younger than the rulers.
Thralls - Almost a thousand daywalker thralls. Countless thousands of nightwalkers thralls that are near unintelligible but Tsucchi thinks are cureable.

>>33214920
There seems to be a simple solution to the vampires,
Offer them either death of to be sent to the wall of marie to fight for and defend the continent allowing them to make up for their previous crimes.

>>33214847
>Asking a mob.

This is like going to a group of opressed people then asking them what to do with all the POW we got. That and making it all decided by them isn't a good idea in general.

>>33214879
even if a possible alternative to blood emerges, I don't want to support the creation of new vampires.
Their "race" isn't actually a "race" so much as "humans who undergone conversion" and the conversion is "cannibalism for power and immortality"
it is POSSIBLE to not be evil, but those usually choose an alternative.
Especially when one EXISTS in magic. Alyce is stronger than any vampire and is ageless. And requires no blood. Not every mage can achieve it.

Also
>Can't replenish their mana
>Very expensive procedure can be taken only one a month/year to make more
I bet this costs a fuckton.

Also, so far we encountered fewer than 500 vampires total in taour and it took 40,000 people in a farm to feed them.

>>33214992

Can we get some costs along with those and how they impact our overall budget?

>>33215011
Oh damn. I thought the same thing... then i had to run to the bathroom. i come back and you posted it.

That would be useful... as long as it doesn't piss of the angels and they slay them. But how would we feed them until we invent an alternative to blood?

>>33215026
>500 vampires total

That number is wildly incorrect.

>>33215057
Simple really, we send all our other criminals.
I'm sure our state has alota criminals we need to get rid of, they'll be useful as bloodbags
not the guy you were replying to btw, just had thought of this solution

>>33215011
Oh hoho. That could work out nicely for the nightwalkers thinking on it. We send them there with a force and promise anyone who proves loyalty will have a home back here.

Hard part is keeping them under control.

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>>33215035
Costs of what? Curing? Tax losses if you kill them all?

>>33215026
>Also, so far we encountered fewer than 500 vampires total in taour and it took 40,000 people in a farm to feed them.
Many vampires fled before you arrived. You also killed a few hundred yourself in combat over time. Plenty died fighting Darlesia, too.

>>33215011
That is... pretty damn good. Offer them a chance at redemption in exchange for serving at the wall they can pay off their crimes. Would help public opinion and save us from having to send our own troops.

>>33215096

I suppose:
Costs of upkeep of the overall total.
Tax losses if we kill them.
Money funneled into research regarding them.

>>33215096
see
>>33215011
now explain to him why it wouldn't work
please let this work, I really don't want to keep arguing

>>33215114
Course the problem is that the Archangel flat out said he doesn't want anything right now.

>>33215011
clearly this guy knows where its at

>>33215096
I thought it was way fewer than that... but ok
we are still looking at what... under 2000 vampires total? that is 20 humans in farm maximizing output per vampire. If we want it to be humane we will need to pay them and rotate in more people until we find an alternative. so that is what... 50 humans paid for blood per vampire? and we have several hundred? so ... what, 300? that is 15000 people. its gonna be hard as fuck to find that many volunteers. and expensive

how haven't they starved already?

>>33215134
>please let this work

Biggest issue.

How the fuck do we keep 200 some vampires under control to fight in a death sentence? Especially when the full moon comes around.

There is also the issue of research subjects and in general the daywalkers are pretty interesting so throwing them there seems a waste.

>>33215011

I have a strange feeling that the Archangel that literally just told us to perfect our strongest unit(AAs) would be okay with us sending war criminals after also explicitly stating he did not require our levy at the time.

Weakened and broken war criminals with zero source of actual blood outside of feeding on men already there. Imperfect unit, and quite frankly an understatement of Talon.

>>33215140
Doesn't mean we can't start setting up the foundations for this plan. Still need to get the new food source for them figured out and the thralls cured. We can get the vampires training or chilling in a internment camp until we need them.

>>33215189
>How the fuck do we keep 200 some vampires under control to fight in a death sentence?
200 vampires in HMK. Sent to fight something scarier than us?

And all this "keep them under control" thin worries me.

>>33215134
We could get it to work, we need to discover the alternative to blood first though

>>33215191
Yea. this right there is a big problem
He explicitly said not to send him any levi for at least a year. Because he wants us to grow first because we know our duty (unlike the large powers) and the men he CURRENTLY has will last him 3 more years before he has to force the issue.

>>33215191
>thinking sarcasm works on /tg/
bich please

Another idea is vampires are pretty stealthy I think. So we could use them as assassins. That is kill/send to the wall the nightwalkers. Then research the daywalkers and train a few up as an assassin of the empire.

If anyone asks we hate vampires. Hell we sent them to the shadow beasts. So there is no way we would have vampire assassins. It must be blackwater that foul beast.

>>33215210

This. We were just told there is a potential alternative. Let's tell the RnD guys, they'll jump on that idea, imagine being the guy who discovered the "cure" for vampires. Especially under our banner? Shit, that's history.

>>33215011
If we're going to suggest this than why not just use them as slaves instead?

>>33215249
>slavery
I am not okay with this
could work though

>>33215234
This glosses over the fact that THESE vampires are extremely hated and reviled by all our people who are calling for blood. as well as major external powers.

>>33215249
Because that would mean keeping them locally which would piss off all our people who aren't vampires.
Also, the whole point is that some anons are getting a boner over talon fielding HMK vampires. It isn't actually about "don't be evil to the horrific monsters"

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>>33215134
It's possible but doing so right now may backfire in terms of the archangel's opinion of you.

>>33215182
They have significant blood reserves in the city plus they're not doing much.

>>33215121
Tax losses from killing the vampires is negligible, save the fact some of them may be helpful in your cabinet/admin. You would also lose their military services.

Cost of upkeep depends on the cost of any alternatives. The vampires could probably fund any blood bank systems themselves but would have difficulty finding enough volunteers (so you would need to help them). Overall I'd say taxes and upkeep costs balance out before the costs of any special cures.

Research costs are more a matter of the fact that Tsucchi and your journeyman mages will be dedicated to that research project for months.

>>33215189
Because they'll be right next to a blood farm.
>>33215011
I agree. Those that survive shall be inducted into the Tower of Shadow or the Order of Blood, which we will use to control them.

>>33215299
I'm pretty sure the people would be fine with keeping vampire slaves.
They'll finally get to take revenge and abuse the monsters that once ruled them.
That and the fact that once we remove the vamps "human" rights, it won't matter what the people may do to them...
we even get vampire HMKs

>>33215249
>slavery
this is as anti-Talon as can get

>>33215299
>It isn't actually about "don't be evil to the horrific monsters"
Assuming we agree that they are horrific monsters. Which we don't. Might as well shoot every german who survived WW2

>>33215249
Harder to keep them under control. Though I honestly wouldn't mind that. Give them the offer of freedom if they prove their loyalty then toss them at a battle field.

If Taour asks what the hell say we want them to work back the wrongs that did.

>>33215299
Honestly the bigger issue here is how many of these where just fighting because their commanders said so vs how many where fighting for the nation?

Personally I say execute the officers. Find a way to use the rest for research.

>>33215299
>THESE vampires are extremely hated

Mob rule. We don't know how many have families, jobs, etc. in a normal capacity. Hell we were just told that a lot of the Vampires were Fledglings, this gives reason to believe a lot of them were pressed into service near the end of our campaign.

I would agree some blood will need to be shed. It is how it goes, I'm sure there are still plenty with violent war crimes, but I'm simply against killing them all because the people call for it.

>>33215304
fucking love this quest and you morality faggots.
makes life alot more interesting

This is stating the obvious,but we basically need three things if we want to spare or utilize the vampires in any form.

(1) control/loyalty,
(2) acceptable feeding material,
(3) minimize political fallout

I would probably advocate few containment camps until we can figure out an acceptable alternative to human blood. The camps could both guard the vampires while also preventing local vigilante action.

They should be located far away from Taour and preferably in a lightly populated area as the political fallout would be too much otherwise.

This is assuming that we want to keep them of course.

>>33215388
>Might as well shoot every german who survived WW2
Not every german (the people of taour)
Every nazi party member (the vampires of taour)

>>33215304
this quest must be how Hitler was feeling towards the Jews and how the alliance was thinking of nazis after the war.

>>33215425
>thinking we killed all the nazis
nice history faggot

>>33215299
>Also, the whole point is that some anons are getting a boner over talon fielding HMK vampires.

I don't know if that's entirely true. It is enticing. But there are also points of making ground breaking and historical breakthroughs with vampires in our lands, not appearing as a tyrannical genocidal maniac(remember our neighbour to the south has a genocide under his belt), and just generally keeping up looks and character.

>>33215425
>Every nazi party member (the vampires of taour)
You do realize that party membership was required for a lot of things yes? If you were in that position you either got party membership or got killed/thrown in prison.

>>33215304
since you are answering questions

They didn't feed on the populace randomly until we took hiien, they bought blood from the farms.
1. How did a vampire acquire a thrall? slave market? Any vampire who bought a slave to enthrall can get the axe NOT for being a vampire but for that crime
2. How did people become vampires? Surely not random conversions but controlled government approved ones? Check records, those who supported can be tried on the exact same basis we are trying the merchants and nobles who abetted the regime. If it was at random this is a lot more complicated
3. After the above, how many vampires remain?

>>33215355
I could honestly see him say that proving loyalty though something like that. I couldn't see him making no out though. Nor failing to add rules to make it impossible to go too far.

>>33215388
Course a lot of this depends. We might want to execute a good number to appease the masses.

Did we ever get proof that the majority of our populace hated vampires intensely enough to cause problems if we didn't execute them? I feel like a lot of people are citing that people are gonna rebel and shit if we don't kill all the vampire PoW's, but I don't think this was ever confirmed.

>>33215425

>not every Nazi was a blood thirsty jew killer

People fight for more reasons than the ideals of their leaders, often times they only do so under pressure by said leader.

>>33215304
guess the main options so far are
1. Slavery

2. Find blood alternative + Send to the wall

3. Kill them all

Each choice has various alternatives that are part of it but fuck that, the list I've made is basically the bare bones.

>>33215350
>>33215403

I feel like slavery is the wrong word to use.

Indentured servitude until they paid their debt to society would be a more palpable political solution.

Also, where else are vampires going to be accepted? If we give them food and a road to acceptance, we could command more loyalty than just enslaving them all.

>>33215495
>You do realize that party membership was required for a lot of things yes? If you were in that position you either got party membership or got killed/thrown in prison.
Which meant you could choose not to be a leader.
Oh look, we just executed all the merchants and nobles who were. leaving only the small time traders who preffered a clean conscience over wealth and power

>>33215523
we had a near rebellion which we stopped by killing all the nobles who helped the vampires.

>>33215541
No, this list is fucking stupid.

>>33215541

>2. Find blood alternative + Send to the wall

Those are two wildly separate options I'd say. Especially after this,

>>33215304
>It's possible but doing so right now may backfire in terms of the archangel's opinion of you.

So yeah.

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I'm going to call a contentious vote shortly.

The first vote will be about whether to kill the vampires. The choices will be between killing all the vampires without mercy, killing a small number that can be connected to heinous crimes and leaving them all alive.

The second vote will happen if there's anything to deal with after the first.

These votes will stand and I won't be doing any revotes on the matter or revisiting it in any way if it can be helped.

>>33215565
and that only temporarily held it up.
we might still get a full blown rebellion if we spare them and suppressing THAT is going to be awful PR

>>33215555
call it whatever the fuck you want, Asp can fluff that out.
The truth of it is slavery.

>>33215557
>Which meant you could choose not to be a leader.
No, refusing party membership was basically suicide. Probably not a lot safer to refuse vampiredom

>>33215565
Did we? I'm pretty sure that was highly exaggerated.

I think I just need an explanation why genocide is a viable alternative. Including how it is in character for Talon to do so.

I just don't get it.

>>33215420
A big advantage is we have some daywalkers. I'm honestly much more interested in them then the nightwalkers. Just because they have unique magic traits and they are so small it doesn't take much to get them blood compared to the night walkers.

If anyone asks we can just say we want to research them and that doing so is more hellish then just killing them and helps us build counter measures.

Of course it also gives talon later access to daywalker units to pull off stealth attacks.

>>33215541
>2. Find blood alternative
stated that to feed them until then we won't have enough volunteers to feed them all. So we would basically have to force people to "donate" blood to these vampires

>>33215605

Those are two distinct systems.

Slavery (or at least American slavery) implies that you will live and die a slave. Indentured servitude is labor for a defined period of time.

>>33215636
>So we would basically have to force people to "donate" blood to these vampires
We also have large reserves of blood.

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Very final note: you have about 6 months supply of blood for the existing vampires.

>>33215614
>I think I just need an explanation why genocide is a viable alternative. Including how it is in character for Talon to do so.
Any fluff would be that Talon is largely pragmatic - he would be executing the vamps because they're too large a liability to keep around. Depending on how people take it, it could potentially morph into something different. The same can be said of different approaches.

>>33215609
You are skipping steps.
Step 1: Become a leader
Step 2: Get invited to party/vampirism
Step 3: Accept or die (or escape the country)

You can easily avoid getting invited by avoiding becoming a great leader. take a simple mediocre job and nobody will invite you to the party.

>>33215636

Stated that there is a possible alternative for blood we'll need to research.

Further stated that they have a stock pile of blood and are using it sparingly due to inactivity.

Further further stated, we will only have to build up a blood bank after that supply runs out. Which may or may not be before or after we discover the alternative. And will be given more time due to potentially killing off war criminals.

>>33215601
Dont we still have that Vamp noble that we have yet to have a discussion with?

>>33215650
only for the next 6 months

>>33215714
long enough for a fucking alternative

>>33215614
>IC for Talon.

"These bastards killed so many men. Kill them all."

Done. This I view is mostly a fight of Talon's pragmatism vs his dislike for what they did and understanding of the political situation.

He is on a tight rope here.

>>33215691
>Stated that there is a possible alternative for blood we'll need to research.
The post you quoted explicitly was discussing the fact that they need to eat UNTIL such an invention is made (if we ever make such an invention)

>>33215727
hahahaha. yea. you keep thinking that

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>>33215709
She's a separate matter and I got sick of people complaining about the vamps not being resolved yet. I get the feeling most people have made up their minds.

>>33215749
we haven't though

>>33215714
6 months is a long ass time

>>33215683
>You can easily avoid getting invited by avoiding becoming a great leader. take a simple mediocre job and nobody will invite you to the party.
Or be conscripted into the army, and do a good enough job of not dying to get the wrong sort of attention
Or in the nazi case, be an industry tycoon when the nazi's took over. Or hell, become a nazi before their batshit became obvious

>>33215749

More than likely yes. I'd just call the vote.

>>33215709
holed up in a castle in the middle of nowhere. with no people calling for her blood. and whose personal retinue is a bunch of loyal human servants NONE OF WHICH are thralls. Who refused to join taour (but did buy blood from their farms)

>>33215709
That is going to be fun. It also makes this harder because it means any dealing will be bound to what we do here.

>>33215749
>made up their minds.

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Contentious vote on what to do with the vampires.

OPTION 1
Execute those vampires that can be connected to the most heinous crimes. This will let you continue to make use of the vampires with, hopefully, less negative perception. Especially if you paint the remainder as largely fledglings. You will likely lose many of the most capable.

OPTION 2
Leave the vampires alive so long as they cooperate with you. This will likely have a strong public backlash but will provide you with a large resource of capable vampires. Long-term, you could spin this as a form of compassion in that you want to rehabilitate the vampires but would be difficult short-term in all territories and with all allies.

OPTION 3
Execute all vampires. This will please the public but you will need to live with causing near genocide to the race. Perception at large will be mixed, despite the view of vampires, simply because genocide is a harsh option.

Rules for voting are to make a post with a link to this post and the number you are voting for. No other text, no greentexting the number. All informal votes will be discarded. Voting window will be five minutes after the first vote.

>>33215714

That is a really good amount of time. Especially with Mal's potential research. I honestly think those crystals can play a part in this given the limited data we have.

>>33215780
>Or be conscripted into the army
Most of the ones we captured aren't soldiers so this doesn't apply

>be an industry tycoon when the nazi's took over
1. ever heard of schindler's list
2. those can argue for a special disposition.

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
2

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
>Only the most henious crimes
what about middling crimes?
what is a haneious crime even? is buying a slave to make it a thrall considered a heinous crime under this?

>>33215809
2

>>33215809
2

>>33215809
2

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
3

>>33215809
what the fuck is a heinous crime?

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
1

>>33215809
why are so many people voting 2? what is wrong with you people.

I wanted to vote 3 but I was forced to vote 1 instead just so we can defeat the 2s.

PS. captcha: culdwar against

>>33215809
Since opinions seem divided between 1 and 2, could we publicly do 1, but maybe fudge a bit with the lesser known but capable sorts?

>>33215809
1

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>>33215855
>>33215882
If you can connect them with having murdered, mass-enthralled against the will of the public or generally done acts that the public knows of and hates.

Basically, you're offering up the most well known vampires as a sacrifice.

>>33215918
That was a possibility.

>>33215882

If I had to guess, everything but not limited to:
>rape, murder, forced feedings, mistreatment of POWs, mistreatment of civvies, extortion

>>33215809
ahahahahahahahahah, I don't care if its 1 or 2 as long as its not 3.
fuck off genocide faggots

>>33215907
>what is wrong with you people.
We're not retarded?

>>33215809
1

>>33215918
I voted 1 but can I change it to this?

>>33215926
how does this compare to our executions among the nobles and merchants? weren't we significantly harsher on those?

>>33215926

I voted 1, but I could go for that compromise with the lesser know but capable ones.

>>33215918

Supporting this addendum if possible. It has it's uses, that is something I'd see Talon doing due to his nature.

>>33215971
we had a mob back than

>>33215926
>>33215918
I voted 1 as well but, I'd go for this instead.

>>33215926
Changing from 1 to this

>>33215918

Looks like this is likely our secondary vote now.

>>33215918
How about instead of sapring henious criminals that are less publically known (and it would be a nightmare if people found out we spared them). extend it from "kill the henious criminals" to "kill them and the middling criminals too" instead?

>>33215926
>mass-enthralled against the will of the public
So, just to be clear, we are giving a free pass to anyone with only a few slaves who isn't a famous slave owner with many slaves?

>>33215918
Voted 1 but doing this please

>>33215993
You misunderstand the quetion.
How does the harshness of our actions compare

>>33216015
Let me guess, you're >>33215879

>>33215918
Changing vote from 1 to only killing public ones and keeping some of the lesser known

>>33215948
i think you might have not and slightly mixed up there. Sure it would honestly be more beneficial for us to keep all the vampires but that really isn't an option when you take into account that vampires are so hated. All our allies would turn a cold shoulder, potentially hostile considering the past actions of vampires, to the action and would hurt us short term, which is where we need to be thinking ATM because there are to many variables in this world to try and map out something concrete long term.

still vote for 3

>>33215938
a perfect textbook example of splitting the vote.
all the 3 supporters had to vote 1 to ensure 2 doesn't win.

>>33216015

Yeah, nah

>>33215971
Those guys where also mostly humans who betrayed and we needed a scapegoat right then. They also where far less useful.

Meanwhile some of these guys didn't have a choice unless they wanted to abandon ship and die from the others.

>>33215926
How many of the executed are daywalker vs night? Would really suck to look up and realize we lost half our sources of research.

>>33216038
>not changing how you treat people depending on the circumstances
fuck fairness, we're no judge, we're a fucking emperor (imperator).

Well looks like we're making a minor blood sacrifice.

After curing thralldom, this will likely help public opinion greatly on Vampires to be reintegrated into society with the alternative blood. If we pull this off we just neutered the race (while still keeping them useful) instead of genocide.

I actually don't know if that sounds better or not.

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>>33216015
>3 got a single vote
>still puts up the harsher option and expects people to pick it
hahaha

>>33216077
again, this doesn't answer the fucking question.
Are we less harsh? more harsh? the same?
I am asking. But i guess you already decided we are less harsh and we did that because they were less useful and we cowtowed to a mob (I wanted to execute them regardless actually)

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>>33215971
It's extremely similar to those.

>>33216075
>How many of the executed are daywalker vs night?
About 10% of each. Most daywalkers fled as they can blend in with ordinary people better so although they had a higher proportion of terrible crimes there's so few of those left.

>Anyway, vote is a very clear Option 1. Executing some as a public sacrifice.

I'll be calling a contentious vote shortly as to what to do with the living vampires. Options are to send them to the Barrier immediately, keep them in an internment camp until you discover an alternative supply of blood with the possibility of sending to the Barrier later, or to try to slowly reintegrate many into society (starting with fledglings), the military and your admin.

>>33216057
>All of our allies

Honestly probably not. Some of them would be but all we have to mention is we need research subjects to keep this shit from happening again and a lot of them where changed later. Most should see the logic here.

>>33216113
>3 got a single vote
I wanted to vote for 3 and voted for 1 so that the 2 fags won't win.
the vote choices in the contentous vote was heavily skewed against three here.

>>33216057
Bro you can't even English properly. I knew what I was saying. Maybe you should leave the big votes to the grownups from now on?

>>33216057
you are absolutely right
but tg is a lot less intelligent then they think they are

>>33216145
>no one agreed with my opinion
>it must be heavily skewed against me

kid
plz
Have you considered your opinion is just plain stupid?

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Why do I have the feeling this argument will never end?

>>33216145

Really? There were two separate options for sparing them, and one vote for killing them. The voting choices were skewed in your favor.

Your supporters were just heavily outnumbered by 1 and 2.