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And to start off the discussion, we last left off on whether or not the D6 simple system (AKA: Roll to Dodge) would be the best choice for basic conflict resolution (as character and enemy creation have already been covered.) I.E, event rolls, combat, ect. Voice your thoughts here!

>>32665713
I'm working on a fancy rulebook as we speak. I'll have it up soon.

>>32665894

So how is combat and HP going to work again? What's described in that file doesn't sound very Kirbyish to me.

>>32666232
We're not using combat like that at all. Currently, nobody really knows how it's gonna work. I'm leaving it out of the current rulebook for now.

>>32666232

Combat would work in rounds, likely using a grid map of some type (with the possibility of Z-levels to represent flight, though that makes things complex), with characters getting actions depending on their swiftness, and what actions they preform in question.

Have yet to figure out an HP system, but defense is going to play a bigger role in mitigating damage then health is (though it would require a special trait to make defense completely remove damage from an attack) as well as overall strategy.

Blocking an attack is could be an action that one can do at the beginning of a turn in order to mitigate the amount of damage one takes similar to SS and RtDL.

>>32666404

Adding onto this post, admittedly I have yet tot really cover combat. None of us really discussed it in the last thread, as we're still working out the other mechanics.

>>32666404
maybe for flying you can just give people a "flying" tag. Only flyers and those with Ranged attacks can hit people with a flying tag?

>>32666404
>>32666437
There already exists the Trait system, and Flight has been one of the example Traits for a long time. So yeah, the "flying" tag would be trivial to implement

Remember, this game is being designed so that little kids can play it, and that its quick and easy to pick up and play. I think grid systems are cumbersome even for experience players, let alone for kids, so perhaps we should avoid that.

Woah. I just glanced at Kirby's Rainbow Resort for some possibly relevant info, and apparently it gave out during 2012. Rest In Peace Kirby-Serebii.

>>32666672
No fucking way... 2012? How have I not noticed in 2 years?

>>32666574

Perhaps it's for the best we keep it more freeform then. In other news, renaming "Out of Commission" to "Done For" and adding optional flavor to the items respiratory. What this does is allow a GM to either have dozens of different swords in the game (reflecting the various patterns of blade wielded by the denizens of Dreamland, such as Gigant Edge's heavy broadsword versus Blade Knight's rapier), for example, with differing properties like D&D, or allows the DM to simplify them to just "Sword swords" or "Ninja Swords", in regards to what ability they give. Same for other weapons, tools, and food.

>>32666677
>>32666672

Yeah, malaware struck it one day and nobody was left to clean it, so it's been stuck in stasis as it slowly decays.

For what it's worth, the forum managed to last one more year before it lost the ability to accept more formites due to more mala forcing the shutting down of registration, which then rapidly caused it to fall apart as folks fled, viewing it as a sign of the times, with the last shivered, haunting screams occuring durinb April. Poor bastards never lived to see the arrival of Triple Deluxe.

File: KirbysAdventureRPG.pdf (4.14 MB, PDF)

4.14 MB PDF

>>32666035
>>32665713

Here you go, guys! A very rough first draft of the rulebook.

I threw a few rules in there just because, why not. If you don't want to go through reading the whole rulebook to see them, here's what I added:

-Named the system Kirby's Adventure RPG.

-Renamed 'Stats' to 'Qualities', to keep with theme.

-Went with Roundness instead of Nimbleness. Just because it's funny and keeping better with the Computer Virus theme.

-Native Traits are Traits that some creatures have to start with. They basically are the opposite of what I previously suggested be called "Acquirable". Since I added them, I removed "Acquirable" - now, if a Trait isn't Native, you can just assume you can get it.

-Decided on a simple resolution mechanic. Your dice-pool is equal to your most relevant Quality in a challenge, and every 4 or better is a success. Compare to a difficulty number. Very, very simple.

-Threw in a placeholder combat system.

"The character with the higher Roundness will roll to attack with either Courage or Dreaminess, then the other character will roll to defend with either Roundness or Toughness. If the attacker got more successes, they hit the defender once for each success more they have.
Then, the roles switch— the slower one attacks, the faster defends. And so on, until one character is either KO'd or Done For.
Characters are KO'd when they have the same or a few more hits than their Toughness. However, if they have four or more hits than Toughness, then that character is instead Done For. KO'd Characters get better at the end of the scene, while characters Done For never get better."

As said, it's super placeholder, but it'll do for now.

Also, I've gone ahead and namefag'd myself. Since I was the one who suggested the Copy Abilities / Traits thing, and made this big rulebook, I thought it'd be best to give myself a name so people could refer easier to those things instead "anon's idea" or "anon's rulebook", you know?

>>32668145
Oh and, the introduction to Dream Land is just flat out stolen from Kirby Wikia. It's better than Lorem Ipsum, at least.

>>32668158

In that case, guess I better get a working name myself, as the drawfag/other fellow.

And not to worry, I have a proper introduction stowed in my main computer, which shall be ready once it has cooled down after crashing from an overheat! Heh, poor old gal doesn't have much left in her, and all I have to communicate with is this damaged 3DS system.

>>32668454

And a name I shall get.

>>32668145
Kirby Bless all you Anons!
I love Kirby and what you are doing is even better!

>>32668454
Oh man, a drawfag!? That's excellent news! I've gathered a bit of Kirby art - as much usable stuff as I could find - but having an artist on the team will be super helpful.

Anyone, onto business - the current agenda includes:

>Combat
Should the super rudimentary placeholder combat system be expanded, or should we find a new one?

>How many Level Ups do you start with?
Ten seems too much, five too little. Thoughts?

>What should our list of Copy Abilities be?
As many as possible? Going back to the old thread, I proposed the following get put together:

Spark/Plasma, Burning/Fire, Ice/Freeze, Suplex/Throw/Fighter

Should we include every Copy Ability, no matter how trivial? (Circus, for instance)

>One-use Copy Abilities
Wat do?

If anyone else has anything to add to the agenda, please do!

>>32668584
>>One-use Copy Abilities
I'd keep it classic with the one use radio ability. It would still clear the field (or at least hurt the hell out of whatever boss happens to be there...)

Also I would combine the abilities you already had and more or less pick and choose the others. In all honestly some of the new ones are terrible, and others would be great in a RP setting. (circus sucks)

>>32668732
Right, but what about the creatures who grant one-use Copy Abilities? What if someone wants to play a Walky?

>>32668746
If you mean with enemies like T.A.C., I would recommend having them steal an enemies stats or something of the like. Maybe heavily buff one Quality based on what stat the enemy most favors?

Also, I love all of you anons for this. It's nice to see Kirby love doesn't die out.

>>32668746
Please enlighten me...
I've forgotten what a Walky is exactly.
I'd say that it would rule has a held ability (like in Squeak Squad) if it's what I think it is. There of course would have to be a limit or # of able held one use abilities.

>>32668584
Every ability should be open for discussion. On the topic of Circus and all of its suck, I would like to remind all that Acrobats are still a thing. Compile whichever ones share extremely similar abilities(Burning and Fire for example) and then have the crazy shit like U.F.O., Ghost, or Magic be prestige of some kind. As for One-Use Powers, have them like >>32668732 suggested where they'll be useful enough to keep around but make them double-edged or with heavy cooldown.

>>32668969
Kirby for life man.
I've argued many a times that Kirby should head Nintendo. Mostly for personal reasons... But in the end it does make sense.

>>32668969
T.A.C. and Gooey and Popopos (Kirby) have the "Copy" Copy Ability. Last thread, I proposed the following Level Up list for it:

Level 1 - You may absorb enemies using Courage to replace this Copy Ability with their Copy Ability, set at Level 1. When you take [a decent amount of] damage, you drop the Copy Ability as an Ability Star containing that ability. Ability Stars disappear at the end of your next round, so inhale them again quickly or else you'll lose the Ability!

Level 2 - You may voluntarily discard absorbed enemies or Copy Abilities in the form of Ability Star projectiles, which deal [??] damage upon a successful hit. Aim with [what stat do we use for aiming?]

Level 3 - When you absorb two or more enemies with Copy Abilities, you gain access to Mix. Roll on the Mix Roulette table to determine what happens! Your discarded Ability Star projectiles with two or more enemies absorbed deal [more] damage.

Level 4 - You gain access to Super Copy Abilities. At the beginning of your turn, you may make your Copy Ability Super! You may access the moves of a Super Copy Ability during that turn as if its level was equal to your level in Copy, but you lose the ability at the end of the turn.

Level 5 - When you absorb two enemies with Copy Abilities, you may make a Combo Copy Ability! Combo Copy Abilities let you use both Copy Abilities at once.

>>32669004
Walky is the mic dude.

I was thinking one-use Copy Abilities would have a normal Level Up list like anyone else, but their Level 1 ability would always be something along the lines of:

"You may KO yourself at any time to ___"

Meaning that "Copy" characters would only be able to use them as one-use Copy Abilities, just like in the games, while characters who have the Copy Ability and leveling it up get access to the later levels. For instance, Walky can 'sing' notes at people - that'd be Mike Level 2 or whatever.

>>32669024
I think Kirby fans get the extra slice of cake when it comes to the Smash series because of how much Lab favors the characters. The Subspace Emissary was the shining example of this with Kirby's ridiculous amount of badass scenes, the Halbred taking up a major part of the story for a lot of characters, and Dedede's gambit plan against Taboo. Speaking of Smash, does Melee Kirby count as its own or would that be compiled into the Fighter class?

>>32669019
That sounds good. Kirby is based around the idea of open ability so not limiting powers would be a good idea. Also combing "like" abilities could up the ones that are the litter of the group.

>>32668145

Now that I have something to view it from, I must say Inan, what you've managed to accomplish in a day is impressive!

>>32668584

Now, lets get down to buisness:

The minimum amount of copy abilities I have down is 20 (I came up with the number during making up Miracle Matter DX's moves), but I hope to include most of the abillities that can't be lumped with something else, even the silly ones like Circus and Ball...Well, accept for Kabuki Kirby, that's just silly (and can be lumped in with Ninja, anyway).

Once users can be expanded on to get additional moves, with the actual core ability being just one option (like Hammer's Hammer Throw), and maybe crash can be lumped with bomb or missile.

Alternatively, we can go with this ">>32668732", and just make one-timers highly volatile glass cannons, to be recruited and disposed of when inconvenient, but that's a bit mean-spirited for Kirbeh.

>>32669050
Melee Kirby is just a mashup of other Copy Ability movesets. Probably could just be ignored, honestly.

>>32669075
*runt of the group

>>32669097

Gah, even with this laptop, I'm laughably slow.

>>32669097
So you want to actually list out what we've got for this ability classes and how we're gonna combine the various similar abilities into one?

>>32669097
Mean of Kirby yes, but I'd say not out of the realm of possibility.
Yes he's mostly a fun loving happy go lucky round blobish thing, but he also devours people for their latent abilities to defeat their friends.
The Kirbs isn't all happy ans sunshine. When it comes to war, he goes to war.

>>32669144
>When it comes to cake, he goes to war
Fixed that for you, friend. As with one of the earlier Kirby threads that was discussed on /tg/ a few days ago, Kirby will do almost anything if cake is involved. He at least knows the difference between good and evil but he wants his cake.

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>>32669124

Lemme give it a shot.

Animal
Archer
Backdrop/Throw/Suplex/Fighter = Fighter(?)
Beam
Beetle(?)
Bell/Mike = Music(?)
Bomb/Missile/Crash = Bomb(?)
Bubble/Water = Water
Burning/Fire = Fire
Cook
Copy
Drill
Freeze/Ice = Ice
Ghost
Hammer
Jet
Laser
Leaf
Magic(?)
Metal(?)
Mirror
Needle
Ninja
Paint
Parasol
Plasma/Spark = Spark(?)
Spear
Stone
Sword
Tornado
Water
Wheel
Whip(?)
Wing
Yo-Yo(?)

>>32669173
That is true and I thank you.
The Kirbs alignment does drastically shift as food is involved. Could that be involved? A drastic roll against his intake obsession or something?

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>>32669194
Oh, and that reminds me of another thing - how are we gonna handle Animal Friends?

My thinking is that companion stuff can just be handled in the narrative, not mechanically. Or we could add a "Companion" Trait that does something, and have that be a Native Trait for Coo, Pitch, ChuChu, Rick, Nago, and Kine.

>>32669194
I'm compiling a similar list in alphabetical order(it's a wiki i'm using, it's just easier that way). However I've currently combined Animal with Beetle and eventually Wing as a kind of animal spirit summoning shaman type(Think Udyr from League of Legends without the...League of Legends part)
>>32669213
I'd think food could just in general take the place of important items. Currency could be candy pieces, or maybe magic use items could be stuff like the Maximum Tomato.

If I plan on contribooting to this, should I take a name like you three did? I'm enjoying this project already

>>32669144
>>32669097

One-use Copy Abilities have more depth to them than just their one-use nature, though. As I noted >>32669047, the creatures that have one-use Copy Abilities in the game demonstrate more diverse movesets.

So, to reiterate, we could just have their Level 1 be a one-use ability that can only be used once per scene, and then their abilities beyond that - Level 2, Level 3, and so on - give them more diversity.

Since the average Copy user can only access Level 1, it basically replicates the game in most circumstances.

>>32669223
It could be taken so far as making them playable characters.
They would need to be fleshed out and it would mean extra work on TG's part but I personally think that would be cool.
And even if not PC's maybe just helpful NPC's that help like they did in the game?

>>32669247
Oh, I totally agree they should be PCs. I considered that a given.

>>32669238
I think that's too much of a stretch. Combining copy abilities should be a last resort thing, or done when the individual abilities aren't diverse enough. Animal, Beetle, and Wing are plenty diverse, and Wing is a mainstay of the series.

>>32669223
Dammit I want to play Kirby Three again...

>>32666672
Nothing hurts like beloved old sites vanishing, or worse.... still existing, unupdated, stagnating like an internet graveyard. At least Mega Man Home Page still lives.

>>32669258
I can agree with that reasoning for the animal-based powers. I'll change it on my list but there are a few power combos I feel are needed due to otherwise uselessness or redundancy.

>>32669124

Copy (Is fuzzy as Nightmare right now on how it'll function.)
Sword
Ninja
Fire/Burning
Ice/Freeze
Spark/Plasma
Stone
Bomb (Might inherit crash.)
Needle
Cutter
Laser
Leaf
Water
Bubble (Considering Combining this with water)
Bell
Tornado
Mirror
Archer (Grey area whether or not to combine Cupid with it, but I feel that the two are distinct enough to be separate, and their relationship is closer to Ninja/Sword's)
Whip
Jet
Parasol
Wheel ("Wheelie rider" is not an ability, it is an action!)
Yo-yo (Might merge with Top)
Missile (I've got plans for this one, but certainly not going to merge it with bomb. Might inherit Crash.)
Clean
Spear
Fighter/Suplex/Backdrop
Magic (Making the roulette the final tier move)
Ball
Circus (Might inherit Balloon)
Baton (Might be the stand in for a Mace ability for Mace-Knight)
Iron/Metal
Mini (Strongly considering changing it into a status effect/trait)
Hi-Jump (Shall be merged with something, I just don't know what)
Beetle
Wing
Paint (Shall function radically more different then it does in the games: Think Ado/Adeline/Paintroller/The Sisters.)
Light (Also likely to get overhauled)
U.F.O.
Sleep (More of an obstacle then an ability: A clever GM can strategically place these to impede copiers.)
Smash (Shall be removed, but perhaps make it so that somehow one can make a character that functionally has all the moves of Smash distributed across various other abilities)

>>32669238
I do like the idea of Food Currency, but maybe also keep the healing ability?
Therefore KIrby could use his $ instead on keeping himself alive for the moment.
A little instant needed payoff.

>>32669307

Oh, and I forgot about animal and throw, the latter of which shall be merged with fighter.

>>32669307
>Bubble (Considering Combining this with water)
I'd say Bubble should hold there abilities like in the game. So they have a one time use of X ability. That would press the need to have a decent arsenal ready using this. Also the ability would only be a one time use so it wouldn't be OP.

I definitely think that for combat, the player characters should be given the option to jump/guard/dodge the opponents attack. Most nintendo related RPGs give the player something to do during the enemy combat phase to weaken/avoid/counter an enemy attack, and I think we ought to replicate that here.

>>32669402
Yeah, I was trying to capture that with the option to either use Roundness or Toughness to defend against their attack. Roundness being dodging, Toughness being guarding.

>>32669402

Guarding is definitely going to be a mechanic, and I've been wondering how to implement damage evasion for especially fragile characters.

That said, only the highest level bosses like Metaknight should be able to dodge/parry in return with any significant consistency

>>32669433
Parry should definitely be a different thing.

>>32669428
Fragile characters would just focus on Roundness, presumably.

(now with 14% more namefaggotry!)
Alright here's my list so far. I was a lot more power-condensing heavy than the previous lists because I feel that some powers could be weaker /lower level versions of some other powers or the general hopelessness of a power needed some backup to be considered:

-Animal
-Beetle
-Archer/Cupid
-Backdrop/Fighter/Suplex/Throw/Smash
-Balloon/Ball/Circus/Hi-Jump/Whip
-Bell/Mike
-Bomb/Crash
-Bubble/Clean/Cook/Sleep
-Burning/Fire
-Copy[Maybe add Laser?]
-Freeze/Ice
+Ghost
-Hammer
-Jet/Missle
-Laser[Maybe add to Copy?]
-Leaf/Tornado
-Light[More a utility than anything else, keep this in mind]/Plasma/Spark
+Magic
-Metal/Stone/Iron
+Mini(Either have this as a status ailment or do it ala Mass Attack and become an army of tiny Kahrbees)
-Mirror/Beam
-Needle
-Ninja/Kabuki
+Paint
-Parasol/
-Spear
-Cutter/Sword
+UFO
-Water
-Wheel
+Wheelie Rider[MOUNTS, DO YOU USE THEM?]
-Yo-Yo/Top

>>32669433
All characters could be given a consistent dodge parry just at different levels.
A level 3 Waddle Dee won't have the same Stats as a Level 10 Meta Knight.

>>32669455
For a lot of these I ask, (bell/ mike, bubble clean cook sleep, etc...)
How would you combine these SUPER abilities with the lesser ones? Or would they all just be rounded out to normal?

>>32669455
>-Cutter/Sword
What? No. We gotta keep the mainstays separate, at least. Besides, Cutter and Sword are like... very very different.

I like the idea of combining Balloon/Ball/Circus/Hi-Jump/Whip, that's very clever!

Archer and Cupid are similar, but different enough to stay different. I honestly think Cupid should just be removed, as Archer does the main interesting things about it better, and Cupid just feels redundant.

I don't think Leaf and Tornado should be combined. We could probably change Leaf to Plant, if we need to give it some extra diversity.

>>32669523
Cupid adds the ability of free flight though. I know as Kirby flight is MEH, but free flight?
Flight that I don't have to waste and attack/ability/turn/etc. on? That's a fairly big deal in my book. I agree beside that there isn't much to any difference, but sustained altitude compared to constantly mashing A makes a difference.

>>32669523

Seconding this, along with thinking that Mirror and Beam are also too distinct from one another, even if they have similar hats, mainly because Mirror already has a load of moves in it.

Cupid could be removed as the only enemy that uses it could be described as an archer with flight.

>>32669566
See >>32669577, I was about to say just that. It's not inconceivable to think that a Copy user absorbing it just gets given Archer instead of Cupid, right?

>>32669566

This touches up on something I've thought about regarding flight. There's multiple forms of flying in the game, from Kirby's puffing up, to Birdee's flapping, to the J-series hovering and Plasma Ball's levitating. Perhaps they should be made distinct?

>>32669593
I don't see the need. Flavorfully they can be separated, but mechanically they all basically work like the Flight description I wrote - they help you avoid obstacles, go over dangerous terrain, and stay out of range of grounded foes.

>>32669593
I believe they should. At least by modes of transportation to as far as possibly speeds and/or limits. I realize they all are "flight" as it where but Kirby sucking air sure as shit can't reach atmosphere. He has limitations just as every other thing with flight.

>>32669498
They would be rounded into one lump power under the more important one's name, I went in alphabetical order.
>>32669523
I was hesitant on the Cutter/Sword combo myself so I can understand. For Cupid/Archer my reasoning is at a certain point along the level up system the Archer would be so fixated on hunting their target/scout the area that they would be given some form of flight to achieve their goal. For Leaf/Tornado my reasoning is behind it is the wind would control the leaves-- just an all in one wind controller. Also Leaf Man/Air Man.

And before anyone asks why Sleep is on the list, it's piled into a bunch of powers that are domestically inclined. I figured they'd all have support uses in and out of combat or be for that one guy who wants to play the joke class seriously(you all know the one).

Well, the way I'm seeing evasion going is like this:

Let's use Kracko as an example.

Kracko gets hit by our player's first attack. DM rolls to see what attack is rolled: it's his downpour attack. This attack targets the ground, but Kracko is high enough to cover jumping too.

Normally, the player gets an average evasion roll based on roundness. This covers the randomness of some attacks in the games, and the fact a player may just be in the right place in the right time. Choosing to Dodge improves this evasion roll and gives a bonus to the player's following attack, but a few attacks are either directly targeted or affect a large portion of the "screen" at once. Kracko's downpour is such an attack. A player may choose to Jump, avoiding a sweeping attack altogether, but some attacks cover multiple regions. Kracko's downpour is such an attack, and only characters with Flier can avoid it. This means that the player's best choice in this scenario is to Defend, which temporarily boosts defense, but gives a malus to speed in the next turn. The GM has to properly describe the attack, and the players are allowed to give a response. For example, "Kracko continues to hover and sweeps the ground with torrential rain!"

...not entirely happy with it, but I think it's important to establish a rock-paper-scissors system.

>>32669659
I like this, it gives a good guideline for working out evasion. The only thing I would say is, using this example, if a Flier is able to go out of range and into a favorable position, they should have the option to counter-attack and/or have an attack of opportunity. I now if I was Cupid Kirby and Kracko started his rain nonsense I'd fly out of range and let loose on him while he's locked into raining.

>>32669659
Yeah, sounds okay. Remember, we're trying to keep the system as simple as possible.

So, here's what I gleaned from it:

Dodge - A quick movement horizontally. +1 dice to a Roundness defense roll, and next turn +1 dice to your attack.
Jump - A vertical movement. Challenge Roundness to see if you completely dodge an attack - if you fail, you take the full brunt of the attack (no defense roll). All or nothing.
Guard - Protecting yourself from most of the opponent's attack. +2 dice to a Toughness defense roll, but next turn you get -1 dice to attacking. Usable against any kind of attack.

And then some attacks would have the following qualifiers:

-Sweeping: Cannot be Dodged.
-Wide: Cannot be Jumped.
-Unblockable: Cannot be Guarded against.

>>32669659
>>32669710

this sounds like a clean and spiffy system. I approve!

>>32669710
>>32669702

Hm, you do have a point. Maybe Dodge/Jump should be combined into one thing, then? Just 'Dodge'. That'd help differentiate Roundness and Toughness rolls.

So, it'd look like this:

Dodge: +1 dice to Roundness defense roll, next turn +1 dice to your attack.
Guard: +2 dice to Toughness defense roll, but next turn you get -1 dice to attack.

Sweeping: Cannot be Dodged.
Unblockable: Cannot be Guarded.

Seems simpler and better, and it was kinda weird that Roundness got two options while Toughness only got one.

>>32669747
This here I can get behind, simple and effective. Nicely done.

Alright, continuing on the topic of combat:

Currently, the 'HP' system is called "hits". Each success the attacker has over the defender's roll translates to a "hit" - and when the total number of "hits" of a player equals or exceeds their Toughness, they are KO'd. If they end up with three or more Hits beyond their Toughness, they are instead Done For. (in other words, you can only end up Done For if the killing blow is REALLY serious.)

KO'd people recover at end of scene. Done For people never get better. (I loved wording it like that.)

I like this because it's a minimum of numbers to keep track of. Everyone has one number they're counting at any given time - their hits. That's it!

If you're adding bonuses to damage, well, you probably shouldn't be. Stats are so small in this system that it's really easy for +1 hit bonuses to add up fast and KO people too quickly. Instead, most offensive bonuses should probably be bonus dice - that translates to a 50% chance of an extra hit, which seems more balanced.

Lastly, there should probably be a cap on the number of dice you can roll at once. Let's say 10 for now? 10 feels like a lot, but it's a good number for now.

This all seem okay with everyone? Any obvious problems I'm missing?

>>32669798
I think the only issue with this would be flavor text. I like it system wise but it's gonna seem really off putting if some incredible offensive from the enemy deals 1-2 hits or your party's impressive strategy to take down a boss monster in 3 turns doesn't end up as effective. Where would boundaries be established for how a hit is effective or not?

>>32669842
Well, that's just an issue of granularity. We could easily just say "A character is KO'd when they have twice as many hits as their Toughness." or whatever

>>32669848
Assuming no one has a stupid low or high amount of hits, this works. Is there an established min/max for Toughness?

>>32669866
All stats have a minimum of 1 and a maximum of 6, right now at least.

>>32669798

This all seems fine and dandy, especially the dice versus damage.

As for the first drawings I'll start on relevant to the game, I'm aiming for everything in the character/creature list to have at least one illustration, to keep it nice and clean as opposed to using stock art, where many enemies are obscure enough as to have no art beyond their in-game models (most of the generic enemies in 64, for example) and prevent the jarring clash in styles that arise for things like Rolling Turtle, who hasn't been given an update in almost twenty years.

Of course, I'm not the only drawfag of my troupe, and there are others that can cover for me when I absolutely cannot draw something (proved I reasonably bribe them), so feel free to ask away at what resources you'll need.

>>32669877
If this is the case than the "ToughnessX2=KO" system would need some more tweaking unless the numbers be moves for Min:2;Max:8 because Getting 2 damage in one hit from something big is perfectly reasonable...And sucks ass for the local glass cannon who insisted they would dodge everything.

>>32669880
Any chance we can have a sketchy style similar to Dreamland3's official art? Something in that ballpark?

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>>32669880
>>32669897
I'll dump the art I have already.

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>>32669914

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>>32669922

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>>32669936

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>>32669914
>>32669922
>>32669936
>>32669942
>crayon coloring effect
I can feel the comfy now. Love it, this is all drawfriend material?

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>>32669942
>>32669950
It's art from the newest Kirby OCRemix album.

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>>32669975

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>>32669983

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>>32669999

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>>32670043

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>>32670105

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>>32670060
Really digging the crayon effect, that's such a Nintendo thing to do, reminds me a little of yoshi's island too. You are doing god's work, based drawfags and namefags.

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>>32670119

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>>32670125
>>32670124
Ha! That was one piece of art in my folder.

Yeah, I was aiming to find more texture works, as I think it fits kirby very well.

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>>32670141

>>32670119
This motherfucker right here. What's going to be the deal with Kirby's pantheon of Lovecraftian final bosses? They going to be BBEGs for campaigns or will they have a whole new mechanic to them considering their power?

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>>32670154

>>32670155
Currently, we have the idea of Boss Traits, a special league of Traits that only big baddies can access. It wouldn't be a stretch to include Final Boss Traits as well.

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>>32670167
And this concludes my dump.

>>32670167
For Zer0 and Zer0^2 I was thinking something like CoC's Insanity considering it was able to tap into minds and took over at least an entire planet(held influence over 7-9 of them).
Then with Marx he becomes a demi-god at one point. Not that this mean's shit to Kirby, but for anything not-Kirby(Meta Knight notwithstanding) this could mean hitting it until it bleeds isn't exactly a plan.

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>>32670155
I'm guessing the manual should have a bbeg section specially reserved for all the horrible abominations that we call final bosses.

>>32670190
Yeah, Kirby's definitely gonna be a special NPC of some sort, given how powerful he is. For other characters, working together will have to be their key to success!

I don't think we need to make an entire unique mechanic for Final Bosses - they're only going to show up once per 'adventure', normally, so they don't need TOO much detail. Having an array of super-powerful-horrifying Final Boss Traits might just suffice.

>>32670220
>>32670218
Well there's certainly no shortage of horrors that end up as Final Boss or Final Final boss. I think they should have their own sub-section in a bosses section. In no realm of reason should Poppy Bros. Sr. and Wispy Woods be on the same tier as Zer0^2.

>>32670241
Agreed. There should definitely be a section devoted to Final Bosses, and Final Boss Traits should be on an entirely different level than Boss Traits. For instance, a Boss Trait from last thread was

【Diverse Moveset】 - Boss Trait, Improvable - Each level of Diverse Moveset lets you access a level of a Copy Ability you do not have at the same level or less. - LVL 2

While a Final Boss Trait could look like this:

【Maw of the Abyss】 - Final Boss Trait - You attack every character at once. For each character KO'd this fight, your attacks get +1 attack dice.

>>32665713
Why do people insist on putting 'stats' and 'levels' on video games that don't have them, or only very tangentially have them? This game and the Legend of Zelda RPG from this board come to mind. Steal as much as you can from the source material instead of this bland system with (good) Kirby flavor. Remember, the system is your setting. Your system is what drives play. Don't leave the possibility of an interesting game only in the hands of an interesting DM. Make the game interesting.

Here are some of my initial more topical thoughts: If this game has a grid, turn it sideways. The games are sidescrollers! 'You can move X squares on the map. If you are in the air, and haven't jumped or floated this turn, you fall to the ground at the end of the turn.'

Each copy power has a special move-set. Remember to steal as much as possible. 'Basic combat rules, each player has 1 Ability and 1 Movement. The Fire Copy Ability: Flamethrower, Ability, breathe Fire dealing X Fire damage in a 2x2 set of squares next to your character. Fireball, Ability and Move: Move in a Straight Line, dealing Y Fire damage to any enemies you pass through.

If you don't want interesting combat, consider ripping off Dungeon World/Apocalypse World. Here's a taste:

Whenever you use your Fire Copy ability to try to solve a problem, roll 2d6. 7-9 Pick 1 and the problem is solved. On a 10+ pick 0 and the problem is solved. (And for those not familiar with the ruleset, a 6- is a failure in which the DM chooses the negative thing that happens, which could be something completely different than the things below.)
- The subject is burned beyond repair.
- The fire begins to spread.
- You burn yourself! 1dX damage to yourself!

No levels. If there needs to be progression, unlock movesets in copy abilities, or add the possibility of combining movesets ala Kirby 64 as progression. Don't graft on levels.

Great graphic design work on the PDF.

>>32670372
I really like the notion of a sideways grid, it would work a lot better with the Kirby games style of movement without letting Flying abilities get too ridiculous or defense from taking a back seat to reckless speed. This would really put the game in its own, any chance of fleshing this idea out some more?

>>32670372
Thanks for the compliment!

I was avoiding using a grid because I didn't want to complicate this too much. I like games you can simply talk over with some dice - a grid is a lot of work!

However, side-scrolling RPG is very clever, and definitely warrants further exploration. I'd love to see more talk about this concept.

Regarding 'stats' and 'levels' - that's just a part of the RPG experience, man. It's fun to see characters improve over time, and characters need to have definitions on what makes them different from each other.

I was originally thinking of pursuing a 'developmentless' system - that is, no level ups, you just start as a creature and stay that creature - but character development and improvement is so fun that I think it's okay to "graft that" onto the Kirby experience. This isn't meant to be a strict 1:1 translation - we are adding and 'deepening' the Kirby world at the same time, and I think being able to tell stories of improvement and change is a part of that process.

Thank you for the great feedback!

>>32670372

To tell you the truth...I'm still heavily on the fence with levels too, and originally wanted to limit them to leveling abilities or skills rather then stats. I wanted it to reflect call of Cthulhu in that player characters did not get so strong as for a level 6 waddle dee to be able to take on a dozen armed level 1 waddle dees without significant risk of injury. The current system we have is a compromise between RPG stats and that vision; Played intelligently, anything has at least a miniscule chance of harming anything else, even at full power, while a person is encouraged to use their levels to improve abilities rather then stats.

Your side-scrolling grid idea, on the other hand, has interesting merit to it. Rather then going into a full on 3D grid, a smaller Z/X axis would do well to emulate the typical shape of a Kirby stage, perhaps having a foreground and a background to be shifted between akin to Triple Deluxe and 64.

>>32670220

Nah, Kirby is more of a "Mode" then he is a normal PC. If you want to go on adventures using Kirby-tier characters, that's what the system is built around, but if you want to see how many Waddle Dee conscripts it takes to take out Nightmare, you can do that too!

>>32670512
Sure, what if each creature has a base stat, and that's just that? You can't change base stats at all.

We could then co-opt stat-buys into Traits, simplifying the system further.

>>32670372
I'll add one more thought: you've succeeded if you've stripped out all of the flavor from all of the mechanics, naming things like 'Ability 1' and 'Stat X' and two things still happen:
1) People familiar with Kirby will say, 'Hey, this is kind of like that game Kirby Superstar,' and
2) People still play the game system, all aspects of it, the same way as they do with the flavor added back in.

>>32670545
Ah, and since these Traits (like Large) wouldn't be improvable, that means the upper limits of stats would be a lot lower... that seems like a good side-effect.

>>32670545

That's a swell idea, seeing as some traits modify stats already, which would make stat progression decidedly non-linear.

>>32670552
Very good points, both of them. Thank you for coming in and giving us some critical feedback, it's definitely galvanizing.

>>32670552
>>32670594

Agreed. Thanks, anon!

Taking based anon's criticisms into account, how can we make sure our simple system is still simple yet effective when we take away the pink puff ball? The level system seems to be a mainstay, which I personally agree with. The hit system is growing more and more on me. What other constants have been established by this point? What can we honestly say will work when we put the system to trial by fire?

>>32669798
>there should probably be a cap on the number of dice you can roll at once.
Maybe just cap it on some factor (maybe double or triple?) of their attacking stats.

>>32670043

This describes me when I use Stone pretty well - just waiting for the enemies to go away.

>>32670683
Find more ways to infuse it with 'Kirbyness' , and that's how you make both a compelling system and a compelling Kirby RPG.

Side-scrolling is definitely a compelling feature, and though Inanimate is right about grids being difficult, the benefits are definitely worth it.

What else defines Kirby? Let's talk about that.

>>32670777
When I think Kirby, I think:
>Cutesy yet badass character+scenery
>Lots of adventuring/dungeon crawling(Great Cave Offensive is the perfect notion of a Dungeon Crawl done Kirby)
>Abilities that are cool in combat but are also useful for creative puzzles
>Food and candy is REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT
>Everyone can get a sweet ride from a box(Air Riders for mounts?)
>Platforming, puzzles, bosses that require some strategy

Most of this has been covered, a good amount is fluff, but I would like to see us expand on items, armor, abilities, the stuff that gets into the nitty gritty of customizing a character. We could sit here and fluff an environment for days but let's figure out some substance behind the fluff. How would equipment be handled? Would it be intergrated to abilities? How would inventories work considering the Kirby games are known for grabbing healing items on the go and only have one ability at a time, forcing you to make a choice.

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>>32670400
Ah, well, I took it as a given that the game was going to use a grid. But, continuing on that perhaps faulty premise:

Run:
Move 4 squares back or forth on the ground. There are faster/slower characters. (This can be a stat.)

Getting into the air is something every character can do. (Steal from the source!) Some are better that others, monitored by a 'Air Control' stat. The higher the stat, the worse your control. How it works:

Jump: Choose a direction. You can go up, diagonal left, or diagonal right. (Only these directions.) You jump a minimum number of squares equal to your control value. You can exceed that value if you have more movement points. If you've already moved too many squares on foot to accommodate your total amount of traveled squares required, then you cannot jump.

Example: Bonkers has a speed of 4 and a Control of 4. That means, when he pressed the 'jump' button, there is no half-jump or just a little tap. When he presses it, he has to jump a full 4 squares if he has the movement for it. So positioning is very crucial for him.

Turns happen in specific order: Move, and then Ability. At the end of the turn, check if you are in the air. If you are, did you jump or float this turn? If not, then you fall 6 squares (or whatever gravity is.)

Continued Example: The next turn, Bonkers is next to the enemy he wants to fight, in mid air. If he jumps his minimum required 4 squares, (turns happen in order, Move and then Ability,) then he can't attack with his hammer. So he forgoes his move, attacks in mid air, then falls, ending his turn.

'Floating' is special terminology for those special characters with an Air Control of 0. They can hover in the air using a 'Jump' but with their minimum number of squares of 0. Cool!

Re-examine our rules. We're creating a focus on jumping and fighting and being in the air. Is this what we want? Rinse, repeat.

Also, a mock-up.jpg.

>>32670777

>super easy to get into, with levels of difficulty for people that seek challenge.
>Kirby can adapt to nearly any situation
>any enemy can be beaten with any power, or at least gives you the ability to beat them.
>Sidescrolling, but minimal actual platforming challenge
>Scattered treasures/macguffins are a reward, with puzzles based around timing and having the right ability for the location.
>Partners help Kirby in his quest
>yum yum eat'em up

>>32670848
>How would equipment be handled? Would it be intergrated to abilities?
I think the consensus is that anyone can pick up a sword, but they won't get much benefit, and they won't be able to do fancy moves with it without putting points into the Sword skill.

I'm pretty sure a certain level of the Sword skill would give you a free sword every so often, maybe as an add-on

>How would inventories work considering the Kirby games are known for grabbing healing items on the go and only have one ability at a time, forcing you to make a choice.
I'd make it so you don't have an inventory, you have a Stash. Your stash is in a comparatively safe location (bank, dead tree, etc.), but it can be stolen from, prompting a new mini-arc.
You can hold a single item with no penalty (such as a sword, a brick, a piece of candy, or a check from the bank), or two items at some penalty to fighting and/or movement rate.

>>32670898
When the concept for a grid was mentioned this is what I had in mind. Something like this can easily be made in roll20's system or hell, even irl if you so choose. It's no different than any other grid-like system and allows us to flesh out the emphasis on movement

>>32670898
Seems way too complex.
>>32670848
Equipment is description, descriptions are Traits. Maybe they could have a Usable tag. We could also have Temporary for statuses.

>>32670848

Adding on Air Ride machines, those shall be covered at a later time, but it will be large, encompassing system that also takes into account vehicles like the various tanks found in the games, automobiles, and wheelie riding.

Equiptment I have been thinking about heavily. Some equipment grant abilities some abilities grant equipment, yet not all of them do either. Taking a look at say, a Human or Fairy character compared to a Tic, and one has a lot more potential to benefit gear then the other. Armor is ubiquitous in the Kirby series, with loads of different knights, and I earlier took the time to make the distinction from the dozens of different types of sword that appear. As a result, I have come to the conclusion:

Some creatures innately start with equipment other then what is needed for their ability, such as a shield (Gigant Edge). Equipment doesn't usually raise base stats, but it does bestow traits to it: Taking Gigant Edge back into account, and comparing him to say, Heavy Knight, and the two would potentially have identical base stats from a distance (though Gig would have a higher base Sword level), despite the fact that one is clearly stronger then the other in the games. What would make Gigant a significantly harder shell to crack is the fact that his shield bestowed a perk that could do something like say, increase his probability to block an attack.

Some abilities would likely add pseudo-gear like moves to your character that cold be invoked, like Archer and the decoy.

It would perhaps work somewhat inversely of abilities: where most copier's bodies aren't really suited to deck loads of gear on them, gear adds a way for

I'm thinking of giving three slots out: Hat slot (this is usually occupied by an Ability's hat for copiers), body/mask slot, and feet slot (in case you wanted to give your fairy shoes that didn't swallow her legs in the process.)

>>32670949
Fair enough, but in an RPG about a Kirby Videogame, moving, jumping, and using abilities should be -the- most complicated/detailed portions.
>>32670939
>I think the consensus is that anyone can pick up a sword, but they won't get much benefit, and they won't be able to do fancy moves with it
That reeks of D&D! That's nothing like Kirby. I think the assumptions should be any character can access any copy ability if its available. Progresssion (again, if it must exist,) unlocks more moves. Say there are 5 moves. Everyone starts with 3 in each copy ability. Progression unlocks the final two. I'd love to see a specialized King DeDeDe swinging a hammer because he's specialized, but in some corner case, he decides to pick up the Fire ability and while isn't as good as the specialist, he rocks shit as a fire penguin for what he needs it for.

I'm noticing a theme of, 'levels/X are an RPG staple,' when what is seemingly meant is, 'levels/X are in D&D so it should be here too.'

>>32671014

Silly me, I forgot to finish that chain of thought due to word limits! As I was saying, most abilities hinder copiers in equipping gear, so it would give some incentive for normals or limited ability users to play.

>>32671032
Its not about levels, its about allowing characters to be unique and to specialize.

>>32671048

Of course, looking into it more, gear would get complicated and cluttered if you added "equipment". Perhaps if we made it ore passive, with a limited number of items, or even only one, having an effect at once, taking Kirby's Air Ride or Kirby Fighters as inspiration.

>>32671032

Maybe we could compromise. Perhaps the 'only one copy ability' rule could apply to this too, making a Waddle Dee able to pick up a parasol to get the Parasol power, letting him float, juggle enemies, etc., but a Waddle Doo would just be hitting enemies with an umbrella (unless he found a workaround)

>>32671014
>>32671048
>>32671099

You know, had there been any talk of playable races/characters? I mean, we can't have 4-6 not-Kirby running a muck in whatever campaign eventually test runs this. Would the playable characters be like established creatures(Knuckle Joe, Chilly, T.A.C., etc.) or just Waddle Dees or something? We've seen creatures like the Waddle Dee can take a few roles in terms of the powers they hold(Doo has Beam, some have parsouls, there's the Bandana Dee).

>>32671089

A plausible system would be to have only one or two held items like swords or laser guns, and only one ride/vehicle like Wheelies, any of the various starships, and the friends.

>>32671109
I /think/ everybody generally agreed that there wouldn't be any distinction between playable creatures and generic enemies, though bosses and final bosses wouldn't be very suitable. So you could play as a Waddle Dee, Waddle Doo, Kirby-type, or any of the other inhalable enemies.

>>32671109
Since all characters have the same stats, any non-Boss creature is playable.

>>32671087
Right, that just sounds nothing like Kirby. There should be a compromise between 'Everyone is the same, can use all powers, etc' and 'Only the Sword ability specialist can do anything with a Sword.' And I'm just talking from a system perspective. I can see how maybe people would find it interesting to play something in a Kirby universe that has no ability to transform, but that seems like an odd system to set out to create. It's like wanting to make a Lord of the Rings system that only details the low-born human peasants of Middle Earth.

>>32671143
All non-Boss characters I meant. Boss characters have different names for their stats and their unique Boss Traits

>>32671109

Using the current system, anything that has the ability to move could conceivably be used as a playable character, which was intended as a means to simplify things, with some generic template creatures having multiple options in generation to make them customizable in case you wanted to make your own character. A campaign could use nothing but established characters, unique PCs, or just generic characters gleaned from the creature index with now fluff attached.

>>32671099
Something I forgot, the way I see equipment being done, have just two slots to keep it simple. One for Ability, that way nothing jepordizes what you plan on surviving with and one for a Usable Item. This could range from a leftover Cutter's Boomerang or a spare lollipop that was lying around.

Example: Character Dee has the Water ability, so naturally they can- for all intents and purpose- do a light version of waterbending. Now say they're in a rainforest and need to traverse a big ass tree. Not enough water to jettison their way up the tree, but there is enough to grab some strong vines to make some rope to grab on to the nearest branch. Used your ability and then your disposable item. It's still Kirby-like in that you've got your ability and you need to use it, but with enough rule bending and generic RPG element to make it a twist without copying something too blatantly.
>>32671143
Taking into account the Arena from Superstar Ultra, this makes sense and I like it. The idea of a Rocky with a sword makes me chuckle.

>>32671150
What about Helpers, or Bandana Waddle Dee, or King Dedede, or Meta Knight? Theyre all "non-transforming" main characters.

>>32671150

This ties into the previous thread that we're trying to make most things in the game playable if need be, to reflect the Helper system. How does a Tic hold a sword, for instance?

>>32671194
>>32671171

Hearing this, scratch that, if a Goomba can hold things without hands, a tic CAN hold a sword!

>>32671194
Dont overthink it. It just... does.

>>32671189

Bandana Dee only took up the spear a couple games ago. He's really just a Waddle Dee that has a few levels in spear and fighter. Meta Knight is somewhat different, but he is again a Kirbinoid that decided to take up a specific art. Could he theoretically decided to go Kirby and eat people? Maybe. Now Dedede, well, handling him is going to be tricky, as he's both a PC AND a Boss.

>>32671207
If we're talking Goombas now then just take a look at Paper Mario and be done with it. They use their heads to bonk the shit out of people, it's their natural ability. Yet, they can use consumables still like Fire Flowers and Mushrooms. Take this idea and kick it into ttrpg overdrive. A Rocky using a whip to aid his friends in battle-BY BECOMING A WRECKING BALL. A Blade Knight with a spatula dices up enemies and carrots alike to make a stew to heal himself and his friends. Fluff can do anything in the hands of a creative player/GM

>>32671241
Exactly, my point is that the dude was saying 'why focus on characters who cant transform', yet a lot of anons, myself included, want to play as Helpers or 'sidekicks'. So clearly there exists the interest.

>>32671278
>characters who can't transform
So...Anyone who isn't Kirby? Not counting boss forms or EXPLODING being a transformation, only Kirby and presumably Meta Knight can change abilities. The enemies with Copy just steal your abilities because it's fun, they don't use them on you. I thought it was understood players would be Helper creatures?

>>32671189
Hmm, I think the issue is that I want to emulate the videogame mechanics as well as the setting. If we're doing that, then the players should be able to transform in very free ways. You can tell my favorite in the series, by far, is Superstar. The helper in this game is essentially transforming since the 1st player could change you at-will.

Like, I can put the Kirby flavor on any number of generic settings and have some fun with it. It just seems to make sense to me to want to make something more than just another hollow frame to drape a provided setting over. I guess role playing folk enjoy hollow frames, they're very customizable, but I think I personally ran out of patience for that awhile ago.

>>32671337
Exactly. Like 99% of the characters in Kirby cant transform... so itd be silly to not let you play as those.

>>32671366
Still, what about, just as an example, the other playables in Return to Dreamland?

>>32671337

Don't forget Keeby, as well as that one enemy from Kirby's Amazing Mirror who's name eludes me, and Gooey (as well as his sister). Rick could also copy abilities to an extent, if I remember correctly.

>>32671410
Still a small minority of characters

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>>32671410

Keeby: Like Kirby, only 100% less adventurous. I'd like to think him as the "average Joe" of the Kirby race. Not looking for trouble, not saving the world, just enjoying his time.

>>32671369
Neat ideas i'm getting just from looking over a few sprite sheets:
>Bioshock with Beetle played like ronin/sumo hybrid
>Blade Knight with Jet that would be a bite-sized Gundam
>Smirror as [Insert base element here] mage...Seriously, he's the Black Mage from FF

It's easy, you just need to put some thought to how this could work.
As for the Dreamland cast and other helper characters like >>32671381 and >>32671410 mentioned, I would say have them as important/helpful NPCs. They're established characters and we've never seen other Popstarans that share their species. I'm not saying they don't exist, rather they wouldn't be plentyful enough to constitute having one being an explorer.

>>32671366

I mean, the weird thing with the helpers from Super Star is that you're not any particular critter but some psychic gestalt that follows Kirby around. Or, you're just a bunch of different critters. Having to exchange your character sheet or being a psychic non-entity does not good roleplaying make.

>>32671448

The thing about how the setting curently works however, is that HOW established they are varys depending on how far back you start your campaign. If one were to start back during Kirby's Adventure and play it out from there, whole characters can end up developing in dramatically different ways as the campaign unfolds contrary to how the games ran. Who knows, maybe a random Cappy could end up becoming the saviour of Dreamland while Kirby isn't even mentioned, or another character. Rick and the Amazing Mirror?

>>32671369
Hmm, we have different approaches. It's not about majority, it's about recreating the experience of playing Kirby (Superstar, in particular), the videogame, for me. The experience of playing Kirby, in a broad sense, is about fast furious fun and adaptation. To create a Kirby RPG system that doesn't tend toward that experience, well, it's certainly not poetic. Could still be fun.

I'm understanding and liking being able to be helper characters. I just think, why can't Metaknight pick up the Ice ability? Or Dedede? And use it effectively, albeit not perfectly? It's not about 'transforming'' in a literal sense, it's about allowing the -player- the ability to -transform themselves- to adapt. To recreate the experience in the game. Who and what your character are in the 'setting/fluff' should be secondary to those mechanics that enforce your gameplay and your true 'setting.'

>>32671480
I was talking about the concept of nontransforming creatures helping out Kirby. Not the actual in-game mechanics of Helpers. Sorry for the confusion

>>32671509
>Rick and the Amazing Mirror
It's like someone took my autistic hamtaro fanfics from eons ago to life It's horrifying. Really though, I see where you're coming from but that's where at least some things would be established. For instance Cappy McRandomscmuck wouldn't be able to wield the Star Rod, everyone but Kirby would be stricken with night terrors until Kirby patches that shit up. Major stuff like that wouldn't be messed with, that's like if you tinkered with established events for 40k, imagine the shit fit regular 40k players would have the second that starts happening.

Now on the other side of the coin, things like the Great Cave Offensive or the stories involving Dyna Blade are inconsequential. Anyone could take a part in those. How about Squeak Squad? The mouse squad is actively trying to find the ultimate darkness and keeping everyone else away from where they think it is. Doesn't need to Kirby for that one either

>>32671546
>>32671448

Yeah, starting to convince me here... I do like the idea of creatures with abnormal Copy Abilities

>>32671560

What I've figured is that in order to have battles like Zero (not Zer0^2) and Queen Sectonia possible is to make the time period flexible enough to allow for alternate spins on history in the case the need would arise. In the end, it'll be up to the GM what can or can't happen, but just as a potential option. The basic setting IS going to assume that things progressed in the way they did in the games, though.

>>32671570
More ideas for the purpose of convincing wavering anon:
>Birdon with Missle, it's a mecha bird that dive bombs stuff
>T.A.C. with Fighter/Melee becomes a pint-sized JoJo's character, complete with ORA ORAs
And some mundane enemies to get more ideas across
>Kabu with Laser, become the laser tiki from Gradius
>Tooky with Stone, reverse version of a Cockatrice
>Perot with Magic, suddenly with Jester/Harlequin

See? Take one NPC, one ability, and poof you have a character to use. Now have them hold one disposable weapon as the journey goes, easily replaced at stores and in the wild. Oh, and currency. Have currency be a pseudo-third slot. But keep the notion of candies as monies, I still like that idea

>>32671194

The same way a Waddle Dee (and 90% of creatures, for that matter) can eat candy.

>>32671646
If I had to make a quick bullshit excuse, Final Boss-tier monsters seem to have enough power to warp time/space as they see fit. Hence why Kirby always needs to use the Star Rod or some equally important power to kick galactic levels of ass. Just have the PCs fight a weakened or alternate dimension versions of these. Their victory will still be something to cheer on, but in the grand scheme of things they're not the pink puffball so it's not the final blow. It's in the hands of the GM though, I agree

>>32671651
See, alternate powers = fine. But when you can swap powers willy nilly like anon is suggesting, you just end up undermining your concept.

Notice thay these cool character ideas rely on a constant copy ability. Anon is suggesting that copy abilities change frequently - which would defeat the point of these unique characters.

>>32671337

In Kirby Super Star (or at least in Ultra), the Helper for the Copy ability, Tac, could copy others' abilities.

>>32671480
I'd think that, if you want to play as a Helper, then you can just take a character sheet from an enemy that was just defeated and play as that enemy.

>>32671570
Maybe an ability, kinda like Large, that can only be taken at chargen, but lets you swap out your innate copy ability for another one (and maybe boosts one stat of your choice)

>>32671651
>Have currency be a pseudo-third slot
I mentioned earlier in this thread (>>32670939) that maybe you could have a stash in the bank, and have the bank give you a check - that counts as your item - when you want to give someone else candy or something.

Potentially, a backpack or similar could be used to store multiple items, but you can't use any of them without spending a turn rummaging.

>>32671678

Well, going on that tangent, yeah. The non-Kirby characters are indeed, not Kirby. What they are however are the friends that help Kirby reach his goal along the way. They're Ribbon, they're Bandana Dee, they're the Animal Friends, they're the wheelie that got hi off the Halberd, they're that one Mr. Frosty that decided that he wouldn't be a dick to Kirby like everyone else and help him get to the centre of the pinball stage. They might not be able to deal the finishing blow, but they could potentially be vital to letting Kirby get to where he needs to be in the first place.

>>32671722
I think it would be wise to treat multiple abilities like a deformed method of multiclassing. There's got to be legitimate build up to it and there would be some draw backs. Idea:
>Sword Knight with Sword and Cutter, it's dual wielding blades
So we've got both hands taken up, every disadvantage and advantage brought about in this situation from every other RPG comes to mind. Easy
>Chilly with Ice and Bubble[Alternatively the Domestic homebrew I had on my list]
Cool, now you're dropping ice balls on people like a broken cargo plane. But now you can't capture things in the bubble./Again ice balls. But now you can only cook cold foods, your broom is more or less a curling tool now, and sleeping will increase fire resistance instead of healing

More than one ability on the fly should be the specialty of Copy characters, with some restriction and more fleshing out.
>>32671821
I like the idea of a bank holding monies but how would that work in between the beginning and end of a dungeon crawl? Maybe a coin purse-like item that gives temporary hold to currency?
>>32671829
As I mentioned earlier, the established characters are the ones who help Kirby and are his friends-- that's indisputable. The idea would be unless the campaign directly involves Kirby, then why would any events directly effect a game's main story? That's like taking the Butterfly Effect to a logical extreme, it's understandable but moot in the end.

>>32671894

>I like the idea of a bank holding monies but how would that work in between the beginning and end of a dungeon crawl? Maybe a coin purse-like item that gives temporary hold to currency?
Maybe just letting you carry [a large amount possibly based on some stat] of candy, at the expense of not being able to fight without dropping it? Maybe a crew of Bonkers that haul candy to your stash for a commission? Maybe a special vehicle made for hauling things?

>>32671944
Now it's starting to sound like you'd need a merchanct/banker to hold all of the money. What's wrong with keeping this particular mechanic like DnD? Kirby games don't use shops, rather it has a score system because...I dunno, numbers a fun. But in an RPG, buying equipment in a system where it's either a new ability or a disposable item has to make shops have tantalizing stock. There's an idea, why not have the ability to buy the more interesting abilities like Magic or upgrades to stuff like Fire/Ice/Spark Sword? Maybe expanding the reason for money would help how it would be stored

>>32671894

It's mainly for flexabilty purposes. As discussed in the last thread, if one were to slightly alter a single event in Dreamland's timeline, like having Kirby get Done For'd during the course of a campaign and still playing through the campaign anyways, it would have the potential to change the setting to the point where it would be almost unrecognizable. Seeing as this RPG is going to be flexible as to how far back you can set the game, I'd find it funny to see how fast /tg/ can play through the start of Kirby's Dream Land and end up with a twisted setting where a bunch of random OCs and generic characters unsuccessfully try to stand in for Kirby as the world gets worse and worse from Nightmare, Dark Matter, and eventually Necrodious and Drawcia transforming it into a landscape that would trump the average Imperium of Man Hiveworld in grimdarkness.

Of course, that's all speculation that has little to do with how we're going to work this game's mechanics.

So, back on that, how are we going to fit in the existing combo abilities like drill and refrigerator? Some, like Double-Snowball and Mega Stone for instance, are redundant.

>>32672043
Either have the combo abilities on with the multiclassing idea I had, or possibly as prestige classes. I'd have to go over the list of combo abilities from the Dreamland games to see where they'd offshoot from if you wanted specifics. But I can say shit like refrigerator can get tossed into Domestic Kirby homebrew...Such a goofy ass ability.

>>32672001
Why not make the money Star Bits? Those things on the bottom of the screen in Kirby 3 and 64 that gave you an extra life when filled up.

Also, does it matter whether or not an enemy can have a different power than usual? Just put in a not about being able to switch out powers if you want and be done with it.

>>32672001

Well, there should definitely be an option to buy/raid/find/stealing's wrong! a base of operations, which could serve as an alternate stash location, and there would certainly be more modes of transit than bank-owned ones.

Maybe having a specific crafter NPC upgrade an item makes it give you a higher level in a skill?
>"I require ten million candies and fifty donkey butts to upgrade this jetpack to level five!"
That'd make a decent sidequest, and would give the DM (or equivalent) full power to limit multiclassing-style growth.

>>32672043
>how are we going to fit in the existing combo abilities like drill and refrigerator? Some, like Double-Snowball and Mega Stone for instance, are redundant.
Maybe, once you get to the level where Copiers gain combo abilities (or a little bit farther), you can just automatically use 2xRock if you don't have any non-rock abilities.

>>32672102

Star bits appear in all the 3D platformers, actually. And perhaps it was because the thought of using food to barter thing fits in line with how I imagine Dreamland would function, " with actual "currency" being the shiny crap Dedede hordes to buy stuff from Nightmare, as well as some weird alien Fairy practice. Still, stars could make a good thing to default to if we wanted it, though making them restore health anyways makes them kinda already identical to food.

>>32672121
Why require a bank? All the (numerical) stuff you get in Kirby just sorta flies up and increments the stuff counter by one.

I do think that a 'candy stash' would work good for "King DeDeDe has issued an edict claiming all the candy in Dream Land, go stop him!" type plot hooks, but that would ideally only come up every once in a while, and Kirby never goes to drop off his 1ups and dot thingies.

>>32672152
Naw, don't make them restore health. Just have however many be how much a 1up costs.

>>32672121
I personally don't like the upgrade system, maybe for higher level stuff or upgrading into bigger and better abilities(Rock to Metal for instance)
>>32672285
I'm on this boat, I don't really see a bank helping out with monies unless they're given a weight system and there's no need to add a weight system to a gametype that's supposed to embody the easy to get into and play spirit of the games. This is just my opinion though, I would like to see the idea fleshed out and discussed more before it gets canned.

>>32672285

Speaking of one ups, I've been thinking of them either working as some sort of saving throw, or a "do over" for a scene that doesn't go terribly well, as opposed to something that restores your health upon KO, effectively doubling your vitality.

>>32671560
What even is the 'plot' for GCO? I guess it's really just a straight dungeon crawl.

>>32672402

Kirbeh goes explorahn for teh phat lewtz. Also apparently gold, but gold has such a terrible exchange rate in Dream Land that it's mostly chump change anyways. Maybe have some BEBG invade Dream Land for it's gold reserves?

>>32672402
Kirby fell in a hole one day. He gets out of it. The End
Optional: Pick up treasures of vast values on the way out

I love the simplicity of it, and i'm a sucker for Nintendo crossover evidence. Even if it's ridiculous nonsense.

>>32672439

As a campaign idea, of course!

>>32672446

Speaking of crossovers, seeing as R.O.B. doesn't have much of a series of his own and Sakurai basically gave him Missile and Beam variants in SSB (as well as a giant variant), I'm considering throwing them in on the merit that they showed up in Kirby's Dreamland 3 before.

>>32672514
Could be a cool mini-boss or important NPC

>>32672514
Nah, they didn't do anything. Best to focus on the kirby-things, whatever Dedede is, humans, fairies, waddle dees, and all the other actual enemies.

>>32672538
Remember, this is a system, not a setting. Our job is to make the system, not map out dream land.

On that note, what are the basic combat mechanics?

>>32672538

Well, The R.O.B. (the one Kirby meets during DL3) is the prototype of his entire race and would be an ally (at least potentially), but there would be lesser mass-produced R.O.B.s made of plastic (likely the only robotic enemies in the game not made of metal, in fact) that act as minions to him, or basic enemy/helper versions. Kinda like King Doo compared to Waddle Doo.

Also, I confused beam with laser again.

>>32672572

Err, yes, best flesh out the core setting first (which will contain all the actual Kirby stuff), and leave all the minor quirks and what-ifs for supplementary modules. R.O.B. could be packaged with Master Hand in some lesser referential module, for instance.

>>32672609
Combat is based around hits and toughness, let someone else explain it while I'm working out the combo abilities

>>32672639

System! Ho, fatigue is making me confuse words.

Alright, combo abilities compiled. A lot of them were redundant so I decided to have them be considered for abilities or attacks. The term 'prestige' is used really loosely...And by that I mean it might be wrong, but you's should get the idea. Feel free to rip it apart and pick it as you see fit.

-Super Fireball(Fire Ability--NOT prestige)
-Volcano(Rock prestige)
-Melting Ice Block(Ice or Water prestige)
-Flaming Arrow(Archer Ability--NOT prestige)
-Fireworks(FUCKING BEAUTIFUL...I mean Bomb prestige)
-Match(Bomb prestige)
-Sword of Fire(Sword prestige)
-Giant Stone(Rock prestige)
-Curling Stone(Domestic prestige)
-Drill(Needle prestige)
-Dynamite(Bomb prestige)
-Lightning Boulder(Yo-Yo prestige)
-Animal Statues(Rock Ability-- NOT prestige)
-Rolling Snowball(Ice Ability-- NOT prestige)
-Giant Spiny Snowflake(Ice Ability-- NOT prestige)
-Explosive Snowman(Bomb prestige)
-Refrigerator(Domestic prestige)
-Ice Skating(Metal prestige)
-Swiss Army Kirby(Needle prestige)
-Spike Bomb(Bomb prestige)
-Lightning Rod(Spark prestige)
-Giant Claws(Animal prestige)
-Tri-Missle Attack(Bomb prestige)
-Light Bulb(Mirror prestige)
-Explosive Ninja Stars(Ninja prestige)
-Super Electric Energy Field(Electric prestige)
-Double-Bladed Laser Sword(Sword prestige)
-Super Boomerang(Cutter prestige)

>>32672907

Make Tri-Missile either Jet or Missile prestige. Also take into account Thunder Sword and Ice Sword from Sqeak squad, as well as Ice and Thunder Bombs.

>>32673117
I wanted to put Tri-Missle into Jet but figured it'd get shot down(no pun intended). And yes, the other elemental weapons would fall under the same concept that I mentioned earlier where it would be more of an upgrade than a prestige.

>>32673173

Hmmm. I always considered Sword of Fire and Fire Sword the same ability, Kirby Wiki be damned.

>>32672907

So, is Rolling Snowball going to be merged with Super Ice?

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>>32673798

My guess? Most likely. But speaking of supers, what of Super Cutter? It was planned and modeled, should we include it?

>>32674085
Normally I'd say no, we don't know how it was supposed to act, but it's obviously supposed to be a giant boomerang that covers a good portion of the screen. So go for it.

>>32674085
If anything it would be like Crystal Shard's super cutter, just in a more reasonable visual form.

One last note on the abilities, since a noticable amount of abilities get the shaft in the expansion department, I would say those which have very few or no availible prestige paths should be slightly more powerful, so they would be in the middle of any base Sword or Ice path. Better than base Sword but not as good as a double-bladed sword, get what I mean? That way there's incentive to go for a prestige class and not. Have the method of building into one of the higher up classes a clear and tangible goal that would be accomplished via quest completion or using star bits to upgrade an ability. Added balance, once a character has a prestige ability they can't take two abilities, that'd just get broken too quickly.
>Attack dice. Attack dice, EVERYWHERE

Any crits or comments to anything having to do with abilities up to this point? With the basic idea for character creation(as in the literal character) asserted not including Star Warriors/Not-Kirbys I think once we have solid idea of how abilities would work we can start work on the species to play as and more technical stuffs.

Bump

>>32675097

Agreed. Prestige would be the sort of thing reserved for the best of the best; Meta Knight I would imagine to be a prestige Swordfighter, or example.

Now as for species, I've been thinking of making some sort of trait that indicates something is mechanical, and another trait that indicates something is made out of rock, covering both robots and stone creatures/constructs.

On an aside, I apologize if I seem to flicker in activity; I rest a bit in and out now, in order to prevent myself from crashing from sleep deprivation.

>>32678016
Does UFO count as mechanical? to be honest i'm not quite sure myself.

Also, bump.

>>32680014

Probably.

If it looks like a robot, and talks like a robot...

https://soundcloud.com/princessrosalina/meta-knight-got-back

Don't die on me! Back to the top!

>>32680014

It doesn't really look mechanical, but I suppose it could be made out of plastic rather then metal.

Trait: Mechanical - Many of the denizens of Dreamland are in fact intelligent machines, whether they be built by the distant man, the enigmatic Ancients, or a multitude of other entities. These beings often share the range of thoughts and emotions present in all Dreamlanders in spite of their austere appearances, and most of them sport machine durability and calculating power compared to other creatures, giving them an additional point in Exam Score and Toughness.

And I just realized something about the Air Ride Machines. While some of them are clearly sentient (like the Wheelies), and others are sorta hinted to be sentient (the Warp Star, Dragoon), the rest of them are just vehicles, meaning we couldn't fit them all into a single system. What to do?

>>32682285

Yeah, trait might need some rewording along the final line, but gets the job done.

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Well. It appears we've reached the doldrums stage, where most of the Kirbros are asleep, which is why activity has slowed down to a crawl. I likely would be too if a sudden aircraft flying dangerously close to my house didn't awaken me. So, if you anons out there want to give some pointers or suggestions, It would be great if you did so while we wait for Inan and Candle to get back up!

>>32682848
I would have contributed but stuff happened.

>>32682285
Idea:

Items have Traits too. Items also share the Trait "Item" - which means that their wielder or mounted person borrows all of their Traits.

One Trait could be "Ridable". Thus, this Trait can be shared by Animal Friends, Wheelies, AND Items like most of the Air Ride Machines. Seem good?

>>32683277

Yeah, but I was thinking of classifying non-thinking machines like Shotzos and Vehicles into their own category separate from items. Though, giving them traits sounds like a plan.

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Reading through this thread, I'm just impressed on how much effort you guys put in this. I'd like to contribute something, if y'all don't mind.
Seeing as you guys are having somewhat of a confusion as to seeing how adaptability could work in a Kirby setting, I'd suggest the previously mentioned temp-ability, that goes along with whatever the natural ability is. To expand upon this, I was thinking that enemies who either have none or pick-up their power(i.e. Chilly picking up ice) they get an extra boost with their attack.
I'd also think it'd be pretty chill being able to pick a morality system. Where you could go defeat those dark matter bosses or join with Dark matter to take out Kirby.

>>32683902
I like the idea. "Natural" Copy Abilities and "Temporary" Copy Abilities, and if your "Natural" and "Temporary" aren't different Copy Abilities, you get a bonus. (A Natural of None gives a bonus to any acquired Copy Ability.)

That balances Natural:None characters quite well, and encourages people to stick to their 'character concept' while letting them be flexible, which solves wavering anon's problem as seen >>32671722


I really like that!

>>32683963

Also, to address based anon's concerns about Levels - I was thinking of making Copy Abilities completely non-linear in progress, and have them be 'movesets' rather than 'Levels'.

So for example, a Copier or a person with a Temporary Copy Ability could only choose one "move" to copy from that Copy Ability's "moveset". But if their Temporary Copy Ability matches their Natural Copy Ability, or they don't have a Natural Copy Ability, they get another free move.

The Natural Copy Ability would be the only one they are able to 'learn' new moves for.

This also helps keep the system 'developmentless' - the reward for specializing is more flexibility within a single Copy Ability, as opposed to more power. That means we can keep "power levels" relatively constant, as opposed to having to balance for wildly different scales of power.

Also, items would simply grant a Temporary Copy Ability. Pick up a Sword? You now have the Sword Copy Ability, Temporarily. Wield a Freeze Ray? You now have the Ice Copy Ability, Temporarily.

That all seem good?

>>32683963
Oh man Inanimate complimented me, I feel quite honoured.

Question, how will you guys reach other once the thread is "Done for"? Or is reposting just fine for you?

Anywho, if this thread is still up tomorrow/today, I'll contribute anything else. Sleep well guys

>>32684037
I think it works. It seems to make the most sense. But what about a temp ability section?

Example- Ice can normally do the pretty sick Charging Ice Ball from RtDL, but temp Ice can't. But they can both freeze breath and freeze barrier

>>32684171
Maybe some moves require other moves to get. Template being something like:

Move A: Do something cool.
Move B: Must have Move A to use Move B. Do something COOLER.

>>32684115

One of us will set up another thread, and another, and another until this game is done, with side-treads sporadically appearing to test the game if /tg/ is down with that. I'll try my hardest to save all the threads in text dumps, though it was mostly through luck that I got the first thread down in all its completeness.

I'm make a page on 1d4chan, but alas, I am Wiki-editing illiterate for the most part.

>>32684037

As for the non-linear progression, that sounds like yet another reasonable compromise; It makes it possible for everyone to use abilities to an extent, yet it still makes a creature's base ability important, and doesn't trivialize copiers. Though, I've noticed that some creatures like Gaboro can have multiple possible "core" abilities to them, depending on generation.

>>32684335
So it would be like, say, a skill tree.

You have whatever we deem leveling if we have it! You can get this move or this move! Or this passive ability (which does something like, I don't know, make enemies within prodding distance of you have to roll courage to not catch fire, though this seems a high level or something skill).

I JUST HAD AN IDEA! Ability scrolls! Those things from Kirby Squeak Squad that gave you an upgrade to whatever ability it was for! Those could be acquired in lieu of levels!

>>32684380
I could test, though I fear I am a noob.

Not to worry, I know how to not write a Mary Sue or be That Guy (I have read enough horror stories of such players on sup/tg/).

>>32684380
There could be a Trait called "Diversity" or something that lets characters access moves from multiple movesets.

>>32684454
Copy Scrolls? Now that's a fun idea!

>>32684761
Hooray!

I contributed!

I'm really liking what I'm seeing of this so far.

In terms of the problems with mixing certain copy abilities with certain characters, maybe you guys could make it so that each character automatically gets 1 level of whatever power their race has, and can then choose to take levels in other powers they can access.

Like, a Bonkers would automatically get 1 level in hammer, but then could take more levels in sword if he wanted.

I'm not sure how well that would work for anything other than weapon powers though, since you could get a Chilly with Fire power, which seems really weird.

>>32685375

Yeah, that's why we were talking about special items. A Snowman with a flamethrower isn't too far fetched, eh?

>>32685417
I suppose not, though it would be if he gets the higher level fire abilities, like dashing forth in a fireball, or setting himself on fire as a defense.

>>32685465
Friendly reminder that Snowman Bomb is a prestige, at this point in time anything is possible. That being said, I really like the idea of Temp Abilities. Would the equipment that is involved with Temp Abilities take up the Item Use slot or would it be it's own thing? For that matter, is one item use slot too restrictive? Would two be better, or maybe a Temp ability and an Item Use slot perhaps?

>>32685550
I feel like it'd be easiest to just restrict it by hands. If you want to use both sword and umbrella abilities, you need a hand for each, obviously. Having too many slots would get confusing though.

>>32685550
>>32685613
Well, people in the Kirbyverse sometimes can just 'float' items near them it seems.

No need to complicate it with too many slots, remember, we're going for simplicity.

I think we can just have an Item slot, a Natural Copy Ability slot, a Temp Ability slot (since you can sometimes get Temp Abilities outside of items), and that's it.

>>32685613
That would go into the multiclassing thing I mentioned earlier, dual wielding is a-ok and most people would instinctivly go for two wieldable abilities. But, there's got to be some restrictions Like:
>No Blocking, only parrying if you have high enough points for it
>Need a turn to get your Use item, like rope, or a Tomato

And other nonsense like that. I like the idea of just one Ability slot for a main ability, the option for a Temp Ability and that would involve restrictions I listed above(with more discussion of those restrictions of course), with the option of switching out the main ability for a cost(monies or something) and then a disposable slot for anything. 3 Slots, one permanent(all things considered), one temporary but with multiple uses, and then one-use items that would situational.

>>32669305
Redundantly enough, there's also the "Animal" copy ability

>>32685955
Yeah the one that allows you to dig and claw enemies. It'd be fun to see how that can be used by non-animal creatures-- as if it were some form of lyncanthropy.

>>32685730
I don't even think we need drawbacks. It's clunky.

>>32686031
>Surrounded by enemies, you realize you are well and truly boned. No amount of gm fiat could save yo-
"I equip the Animal ability, let out a feral howl, then burrow the hell out of there."
>The enemies have no clue what just happened.

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>>32686162

Real Kirbsters use drills.

>>32686333
You look at the enemy's faces and they are like "Fuck."

And going by the glasses on kirby, there is a reference.

So right now here's what we have for character creation if I understand what we've discussed in this thread and what's in the .pdf so far.
>Courage,Roundness,Toughness,Friendship,Dreaminess, and Exam-- the six main stats
>Creature species and traits associated with that species
>Main Ability, the real power and capability behind your character
>Size

Then when a character sheet would be developed we would track the levels of the Main Ability, what Use Item the character has, any Hits they've taken, how many Star Bits they have. On the note of tracking levels of abilities, I say that Temp Abilities should have a cap level or a set, pre-determined level depending on what gifts that temp ability. For example, a sharpened wooden plank with a hilt would give you level 1 Sword Temp, but if you picked up Meta Knight's blade in a battle with him, you'd have level 4 Sword Temp. Consider a limit possibly, that way there's still reason to multiclass for two permanent Abilities.

>>32686494
Size is just a Trait. Normal things don't spend a Trait on it, but Small or Large creatures do. Very Large would be reserved as a Boss Trait, and Colossal would be a Final Boss Trait.

I think the common decision among us is to move away from levels for Copy Abilities, and instead have it be how many moves of the ability you can access at a time.

Variable-moveset-versions is a good idea, actually! It does make sense for the Master Sword to be 'better' than a wooden one.

>>32686509
I like that size doesn't have that big of an impact, because really Mini Kirby and the mini-boss monsters are the only ones who stand out from the regular sizes. As for moves then, would the Ability level up into new movesets sort like a skill tree? For instance the bomb route has many prestige paths, but it wouldn't make sense for a Bomb Ability character to start having bombs play out like a game of bomberman, then all of a sudden they have the Firework prestige. Would a skill tree system work with the Ability framework we've laid out in this thread? It adds a level of depth to character building without over complicating matters. It would take a bit for us to craft the paths for every ability, but in the end it seems like it would have high pay off.

>>32686603
I think the idea of "Prestige" paths and stuff is too far removed from Kirby.

Here's my basic idea for Copy Abilities right now:

You can spend "Level Ups" (or whatever we end up naming those) to learn a new move in your Natural Copy Ability's moveset.

Some moves will have requirements listed in their description. These requirements usually will be to have another move in the moveset, but other requirements may exist as well.

A Temporary Copy Ability will list which moves you can access from it. Some Traits let you access more moves from your Temporary Copy Abilities than normal.

Seem good?

>>32686917
I like the idea of leveling up the abilities into learning new moves, it makes a lot of sense for something like a Fire Ability character eventually having the Burning Ability. Requirements for moves makes sense to an extent, if you can provide some examples to explain what you mean that'd be nice. I also like the idea of Traits influencing Temp Abilities, that makes a lot of sense for if something that's inherently heavy has the Parasol ability and it therefore wouldn't be as effective.

I disagree on the prestige paths though. Maybe a better word needs to be found for them, but the combo abilities from Crystal Shards are a big deal and provide a lot of variety to certain skills. In essence, any RPG elements would be far removed from the Kirby formula but that would be the cost for making an RPG game type inspired by Kirby. I think it needs some reworking and rewording, but we need to keep in mind the benefits of the combo abilities without coping out to multiclassing shenanigans. No one wants to multiclass into a refrigerator.

>>32687023
I think the best way to do combo abilities is to pretty much create traits that allow players to get specific abilities from other lists added onto their main ability list.

So rather than creating a specific fire sub-ability, you can take the fire ability trait, which let's you use the basic fire breath ability just as well as your basic sword slash ability.

>>32687023
>Prestige path
How about Ability Tree?

>Captcha: Fruits Econcsfe
Ha. Punny.

>>32668064

Looking back at this post...Where'd the Kirby community go, anyways? Was there some max exodus to a less decrepit forum that ever happened? It's like Roanoak island!

On yet another saddening tangent, Wikirby, the other Kirby Wiki (I always liked to think of them as Kirby Wiki's Canada) hasn't seemed to have been updated in a long time either. Its as if the Kirby community has started to decompose just as we made a breakthrough with RtDL!

But I digress.

>>32686603

The skill tree was the system we were using if I imagined correctly, it's just that it was powered by "levels" rather then scrolls and tools.

>>32687023

Actually, I think refrigerator could be used as the main stand-in for a cleric in Kirby. Though, perhaps make some way for it to be more accessible.

>>32687110

Scratch that. Urgh,silly D&D getting into my head! Though, it potentially "could" be...

>>32687110
Cook would be more logical and more of a 'main-stay' choice.

>>32687110
>>32687225
Going by what I marked it, refrigerator would be a prestige out of the Domestic homebrew so it would influence the Cook aspect. I probably should've explained those clusterfuck homebrews when I had them earlier:

>Domestic(Bubble, Cook, Clean, Sleep) would fill the role of a utility cleric, something that assists the team in multiple ways. Hold on to enemies and items with Bubble! Make some tasty buffing items with Cook! Reposition allies and enemies alike with Clean! And finally, at the cost of locking down your own character for X amount of turns, you provide your allies with a buff aura of some kind

>Ringleader(High Jump, Balloon, Ball, Circus, Whip) takes the position of the acrobat or highly DEX inclined character of most RPGs. High flying, death defying stunts with High Jump! Bounce around the competition with Ball! Bring all eyes and ears to you in the sky with Balloon! Keep enemies and items juggled like it's Tekken with Circus! And use a whip to grab on to enemies and environments to move around with Whip!

These combine the mundane and silly abilities to be something useful. Obviously there's a lot going on with these, but that's something I think we should take in stride considering how creative someone could get with simplistic abilities like Leaf or Animal given the 'RP' nature of an 'RPG'.

>>32687225

Oh yeah. Speaking of which, are Cooks still going to be cooking enemies? It would be understandable to roast say, a Nurff or Tookey, but what about Waddle Dees? Grab wandering strays and boil them for glorious food?

>>32687379
You need to feed yourself and your allies some how. Besides, you never see or hear their screams of agony. Just a stew that spews out cakes and fruits...Somehow. It's Kahrbee I ain't gotta explain shit.

>>32687355
Yeah, these both look good! I like the ideas. Domestic is a versatile support class, Ringleader a highly mobile positioning and opportunity based class. Seems cool.

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212 KB PNG

Bumping for happiness. I really dig the system so far.

>>32687355

Yeah, looking at whip, even though it fits with the rest of Circus, Circus itself already looks very, very crowded, and I think we could combine some aspects of Kirby Draw into it to make a "Gunslinger" western archetype.

And Sleep should at least remain separate from the rest of Domestic (Maid?), mainly for its utility as an obstacle.

added the thread to suptg.

>>32687023
> In essence, any RPG elements would be far removed from the Kirby formula
You mean D&D elements. Leveling, classes, etc, are far from necessary elements of an RPG. Some one argue, in fact, the more D&D game elements you have the farther you get from a true 'roleplaying' game.

That is, a game where the game (as in, the system and the rules) is about playing a role, as opposed to resolving tasks and conflicts. Again, try to separate this definition of D&D from RPG's in general. In a game where I'm playing the role of Kirby (and his friends), prestige classes, skills, levels, etc, are all just bullshit in the way of the experience I want.

D&D is all about growing in power and using that power to kill more powerful things. Kirby is more about using things power against them. If it takes a 'Level 6 Kirby' to fight a 'Level 6 Boss' effectively, you have not created Kirby.

Just more food for thought.

>>32688138
Agreed. Strategy and flexibility should be the emphasis of this system, not character growth. Still, including some opportunities for improvement is fun and good for player involvement.

>>32688138
Remember to create the Kirby experience from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

>>32688041
I love Gunslinger anythings in all forms of fiction, I could totally get behind a Gunslinger Ability made from Draw and Whip. As for Sleep, if we take the idea of it locking down the user to buff the team and maybe give it some more 'oomph' then I can see taking it from Domestic/Maid.
>>32688138
Then we need to hit the drawing board on whether or not the combo abilities should be top-level Ability attacks or something temporary.

>>32688138

Heh. What started out as a crude derivative of D6 has started to morph into its own distinct system.

In other news, I should have some drawings up by tomorrow, with a question to ask:

Greyscale, or coloured? I could get some coloured pencils or crayons if need be, but most of my work is based on using a plain old pencil, and gratuitous use of Photoshop so it doesn't look like triple-erased sketches, sorta like a paperback rulebook. Granted, I can likely get both to work with time, as we're in no hurry to get down 300 separate images of all the various denizens of Dreamland, I imagine.

>>32688508
I would say colored is best, in the same spirit of the Dream Land games like what was posted earlier and what's in the preliminary game book. As you said though, there's no rush so feel free to post whatever can be done to show the folks in the (next eventual) thread.

>>32688508
Colored is best, but you're the artist. Trust your instincts or whatever.

So how do we plan on implementing stuff like the puzzles based on abilities or speed? Like in RtD where you race the critter carrying a key, or 64 where you need a specific combination to clear a block?

>>32665713

Though I'm hesitant to leave this thread at such a silent hour, the fact that it has been preserved makes me confident that nothing shall be lost if it does not survive the morrow. Perhaps find a decent bunch of crayons: luckily, I have a set of caving knives to sharpen them to an ultra-fine point if needed, which I doubt, but you can never be too sure.

>>32689144

Yet before I leave, I will say this: There shall be ability-based puzzles as well as racers, but the latter could possibly have a do over in the case of a 1-UP, while the former should have some hints depending on how subtle the GM wants it, with some puzzles being hidden and optional, while others would require you to find and ability or temporarily convince a stray to help you in order to circumvent. Other puzzles might not use copy abilities at all, instead requiring something with specific traits, for instance.

I feel in order to get into the nitty gritty of how the game will play we need to have core mechanics down pat. Being as this ship will be going under soon, I say we prioritize working out the Trait system first and foremost in the next thread. This seems to be one of the most important aspects to how different creatures can be played and how it can influence certain powers, yet we've seen nothing but Flying (which is incredibly broad in the Kirby games) and extremes in Size. If we discuss and elaborate on Traits then we'll have all the pieces we need for a mock up of a character sheet.

Further discussion should go into the game's grid style that was discussed, sideways platformer-esc gives a much more original feel that is true to the Kirby games, yet will take a good amount of work since it will be built from the ground up. Otherwise it's a vanilla grid format, but how would platforming and the aerial aspects of the Kirby games be integrated onto that unless we discuss X/Y/Z components?

Health and damage output leading to 'Done For's should be a set in stone system, it's been discussed briefly but referenced to in more ways than have been established. We should settle how it will work.

I think it's safe to say we've established a base for how Abilities will work, as well as the concept of Temporary Abilities. This will give us more room for discussion involving character creation and puzzle/challenge development.

>>32689418
In the OP for the next thread, we should briefly bullet the topics of discussion and how they were elaborated in this thread much like the current OP has. We should also include a link to the mock-up/initial version of the PDF so that it can easily be accessed for those passing by the thread and for those referencing it in thread. Anything else that should be added to the project OP?

I'm curious to the current sleep problems. Why not do what the ability scroll in Squeak Squad did? Have it as quick heal, which also leaves you wide open for X amount of turns. It seems like a good trade off.

Better yet, just leave sleep in the temp ability slot with the effect I just brought up. It might be a pretty good late game recovery based tactic, since it would take up an ability slot.

Also, the mixing of abilities into categories like domestic doesn't feel right. I can't offer any magical idea like having them all be temp abilities, since it seems like a half-assed answer. I'm not against the idea of having something like gunslinger, but I feel like it needs to be balanced out. Maybe something along the lines of "Certain abilities when combined become Fusion class. Fusion class lets one have two abilities, at the cost of you can't use temp abilities."

I dislike being the one against the crowd, but seeing something like domestic or Ringleader feels like a cop-out and could be done much better. Though i'm not saying they're bad ideas, just not Kirby ideas. Maybe minimize Ringleader to just whip and circus and make it, its own fusion class.

>>32689898
The reason I combined so many powers into the Domestic and Ringleader abilities is because the abilities on their own are incredibly mundane like Ball and Clean. Don't get me wrong, powers like Bubble, Whip, and especially Cook could be fleshed out to be their own powers, but the connecting theme of the powers allows the mundane ones to be used still. High Jump for instance has been a main stay of the series, but in an RPG environment who wants to give up swords and bombs for jumping really high, especially when a good majority of creatures can naturally fly? Gunslinger is definitely a nice idea and brings in the dueling mini games from several games, but Ringleader can have its purposes without a whip(Acrobatic feats involving traps in a dungeon, dexterity that can impress a crowd and earn street money/candy, etc.). Domestic/Maid Kirby is more or less the 'joke' class but with enough utility to consitute using it. As for the idea for Sleep, I had that typed out but for more of a team oriented ability. It wouldn't really be smart for a lone character to doze off in the middle of battle( like in the games), even if it heals them now would it?

Furthermore, there's the Crystal Shard abilities which are already fusions and we don't know what to do with most of them. Brewing new fusions just adds on to that current problem.

>>32689961
Maybe being able to hold extra abilites in your stomach, combine abilites K64 style, use Super Abilites, get extra bonuses for your abilites from ability scrolls, and so on would be upgrades or higher tier stuff for people who choose copying?

Incidentally, I think the difference between copying and a dedicated ability would be best summed up as "Jack of all trades, Master of none".

>>32689961
Sleep could just mainly be a joke abilty, since come on, like you need an ability to sleep. It's used as a hazard a few times, with Noddys or Sleep Avily Pedestals scattered through an area. Being able to upgrade it to heal you would be a bit of a bonus to give it an actual use, if a player feels like doing so. But I think of Sleep more as a status.effect in the form of an ability than as a proper power.

>>32690203
Yep, that's exactly what I suggested in this post >>32669047

>>32690227

Agreed, just make it a status effect along these lines:

"Sleep replaces all of your current Copy Abilities momentarily, and forces you to fall asleep."

>>32690248
Alright this makes sense, I can get behind Sleep being an ailment that is forced upon you. And it opens up the idea of other ailments that could be hazards in quests.
>>32690227
>>32690239
The problem I have with this is putting too much emphasis on having a second ability, where all of the core Kirby games make you use one ability until it needs to be replaced with another or is knocked out of you. The idea of temporary abilities allows for some combination of abilities but without them getting too muddled about.

In specific reference to Mike, I combined it with Bell that way it wouldn't end up being a one use ability. It's a signature power that's been around for some time and has even had some occurrences as being 3-time use. With Bell added on, it allows the character to build their level in Mike/Bell to the point of having the mega sound wave, but still having other moves to use. As for Copy, that needs to be discussed in depth because it's a special snowflake among one-shot abilities.

>>32690431
Copy, at least as I proposed it, isn't quite "one-shot".

And yeah, with the new moveset idea for Abilities, my previously proposed solution to the "one-shot problem" is even more fitting - the "one-use" version is but one move in their larger repertoire of moves that they can draw from.

If you want to be the "one-use" version of Music (Mike), go for it. (It'd be a once-per-scene power.) But if you want to do the "shoot musical notes" thing that Walky does, or play with Bell, then those are other available moves too.

I'm assuming one of the moves on each moveset list is the 'basic' move, which is the first one you have to take. (A "Basic" tag would work well.) And this 'basic' move would be the one move that 'Copy' users would be able to access (normally) when they borrow that Copy Ability.

>>32690431

(Returned!) I'd say copy is mostly just T.A.C.'s version of taking an ability, akin to Gooey's tongue; It's not inhale, but the end result is the same in that the user uses it to get copy abilities. Of course, if inhale can be improved, then that would mean that Copy and "Lick" would also need some way to be improved.

And on another tangent, one we get this into a testable state, I've been searching for some potential candidates besides our own /tg/ to run test campaigns in. These so far include:

Bay 12: Say what you will about them, but these guys are all over testing both vidya and tabletop gaems to their limits, and are generally consist of descent players who know how troubleshooting works.

BitForums: A significant fraction of the Kirby community has taken lodging in here now that KRR has gone kaput, so it likely has the largest active group of interested folk out of anywhere.

The Nintendo War Boards: Even though rarely more then 10 members are ever on at once as of late, this board is a cockroach composed of hardened top tier players that build RPG systems with the drop of a hat. Plus, I know all the mods there, and sometimes manage to squeeze 100 posts a day despite their low numbers.

the Kirby Club: The last pure Kirby forum that hasn't succumbed to the Great Calamity of 2012 that we apparently didn't notice, most of the folk there are...eh, aspiring fans in the rough, to say the least, and it has pretty swonky activity ratings, but if anyplace would welcome us with open arms, it would be here.

Alternatively, if any of you anons out there know how to contact KRR's board so that they can briefly allow registration again, I might be able to scrape off enough people to revive it for a short period of time.

Thoughts on these choices and any suggestions yourselves?

>>32685550

I"d say one slot can be used without penalty, you can carry two with a slight penalty to fighty stuff, but any more would get increasing penalties to most stats.

>>32691012

Yeesh, so many typos. Going to take time getting used to typing on this laptop. Anywho:

>>32690827

Hmmm, perhaps change that to a more specific penalty to dodging and movement, from the disorientation one would have stacking so many abilities, if we were to go with such as system.

>>32690827

"Look at this. Once this was a fine board, gleaming becon of the might of Kirby - a center of creativity. Now look at it.

Moderator, I would like to see this forum up again, I would like to see towers and spires of gleaming pink, I would like to see our formites discussing the latest games, not lamening over this board's collapse. I would like to see every topic on this board, every thread on this besotted, miserable forum turned to the service and creativity of fanbase, in the Puffball's name."

Which is more important and valued in a security officer? Being nice to people and giving them the benefit of the doubt, knowing the law, being helpful to the station in general? Or being robust, able to subdue criminals and threats even without backup or powerful weapons and stun devices?

This is assuming the first is generally unrobust if caught off guard and on their own, and that the second doesn't bother socializing and is the kind who enters a ambiguous situation by stuncuffing everyone in the area for someone else to sort out.

>>32691937
Whoops, wrong tab, sorry.

And with the first E3 showing, it appears that we'll be adding yet another sister to Drawcia's troupe. Keep your eyes peeled for anything we can adapt for more materials, lads!

>>32692321

Hmmm, I managed to pick up a brief mention of some sort of claymation Kirby game that uses the same mechanics of Canvas Curse beefore it was nommed in the ruckus of /v/. Anybody care to elaborate?

>>32692448
You hit the nail on the head. We did see something new, though - Kirby can turn into various vehicles. Submarine and Tank, specifically.

>>32693190
and rocket.

>>32693605
Rocket is p. much Missile so I didn't think it worthy of mention.