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A quick note for archive readers - the thumbnail is broken on suptg but the map itself it still visible if you try to view it.

>>32335221
Current Date and Time: Early morning on September 12th, 1952PC

>You have 0 FR points

There’s a warm sensation against your chest as you recover your consciousness. Your eyes flutter open and you see Sarah cuddled up against you. Her mop of silver hair rests just under your chin as she runs her fingers over your chest in haphazard circles. It’s a mildly pleasant sensation – and also not what you woke you up.

You hear a strangled shriek outside of your room along with a pair of other voices. You groan slightly, annoyed that your pleasant morning is being interrupted by this. You move slightly to motion to Sarah to let you up but she just gives you a slight glare and pouts.

“There’s enough people around to take care of it,” she says sulkily.

“And you’ll still be here after I investigate,” you say, motioning her away.

Giving you a slight harrumph, she rolls over to the other side of the bed, freeing your movement. You take the opportunity to rise and throw on some pants – another shriek rushes you a bit so you skip the rest of your clothing. You open the door and step out into the hallway, half expecting to see a bloody murder in process. Sarah is right behind you, wearing a slightly sheer shift, with that sulky look still on her face, wearing a slightly sheer shift. She bumps into you as you stop and stare at the sight in front of you.

“Talon, what-“ Sarah starts before she sees what stopped you.

>continued

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>>32335239
Almost directly in front of your door stand Salamander, Gnome and Finn. Though Finn’s not so much standing as being held slightly aloft by Sala. Her hands are pulling his undershirt over his head and arms, his tunic already lying on the ground nearby. Finn appears to be trying to fight Sala off to no avail given the difference in their strengths. Gnome stands to the side with her arms crossed and a slightly amused look on her face.

“Oh, so I guess he is a boy,” Sala exclaims as you step outside, not ceasing in her efforts to strip Finn.

“Of course he is,’ Gnome says, one part exasperated but the other amused. “I know you’ve spent more time around elves than me so I’m surprised you couldn’t tell.”

“That’s precisely why-“ Sala starts to respond, yanking Finn’s shirt off him, causing the elf to fall slightly to hit the ground. The motion shakes him slightly and his vision turns just enough to see you.

As Finn stares at you in horror, you notice that his entire upper body is covered in intricate black and violet tattoos. They look elegant rather than tribal in nature, but it’s the sheer amount of them covering him that startles you. Almost every square inch of his skin, save his hands and face, is covered with them – the only gaps are the ones required for the patterns of the tattoos. Sala and Gnome catch Finn’s line of sight and turn. They look more like deer you’ve surprised in a forest than ancient elementals right now, though you catch Gnome’s gaze travelling slightly to the slight girl behind you.

The hall is silent now, save for the sound of awkwardness. You’re at a slight loss.

>How do you respond?

Okay, so quick heads up that this thread will concentrate on management decisions after a short scene introducing Finn to the rest of your group. If you have research projects, ideas for the organisation of the empire, construction plans etc then this is the thread to bring them up.

>>32335256

"Nice Tats"

>>32335256
"so... are they magic of some kind? Or is this going to turn horribly awkward now that we know this?

>>32335256
"Salamander, Gnome, please refrain from stripping my squire in the future, especially in a public setting

>>32335256

Off the top of my head, some of our diplomatic priorities were:

1. Figure out what to do with Farun, Termina, Campagnon.

2. Impending meetings with Magi League, RSK, and possibly the Mage Guard.

We should probably start discussing Campagnon first since their merchants can definitely swing results one way (building our devastated countryside) or the other (pissing off Vitria)

>>32335256
Please don't rape my squires, thanks.

>>32335256
"While i would be the first to encourage teasing, stripping a man naked, my squire no less, infront of my own door, is a little much"

>>32335221
hey, Aspie. Can you please not disappear for a week like you did before? I know you didn't do the prep work that you wanted to do, but I was needing my empire-builder fix the entire time. You've got me hooked on this shit, man.

>>32335329
IIRC we got a recommendation to do the meetings first before deciding what to do with the three city states. because our decisions about them have political reprecussions with the major powers

>>32335256
"Those are some well designed tattoos there."

>>32335256
Well I already dumped most of my research ideas a couple of threads ago (I hope you still have the good ones?)

Other then that...

"I see you've met my squire."

and

"Is that how you regularly figure out someone's gender, Sala? You know, when they start screaming, that's when you're SUPPOSE to let them down."

>>32335221
Any chance you could run an hour earlier for european readers?

>>32335256
>Sala, Gnome...
>My chambers now!

>>32335355

That sounds fine, we could always use more information anyway before making the decisions

>>32335367

Repost for readers?

>>32335256
clearly we've got some magical shenanigans. Probably some kind of binding ritual, if he's got to be that heavily inked. so, was he bound to somebody, or was something bound to him? either we've got an escaped elven slave (elf slave, wat do) or we've got some kind of jinchuuriki-esque demon bound to our squire. either way, fun times.

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>>32335239
The idea I remember being thrown around a while back was to set up our own version of inquisitiors. How we're going to do that? No clue.

>>32335395
I don't have them saved anymore, unfortunately. And I don't remember what thread I did it in.

If I must, though I'll go look later.

>>32335256
"Please try not to scare my elf friend here to his grave. It's not something I want to hear in the morning."

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>>32335372
Unfortunately I can't. I already start at 8am in my timezone and I've been having difficulty not sleeping in as is.

>>32335421
I forgot about that. I should be able to shoehorn it into the discussions on knightly and ranger orders.

Also, the response so far is largely a comment of interest in the tattoos and mildly scolding the elementals for stripping Finn. If there's no objections I'll write it up.

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>>32335418
>elf slave, wat do

>>32335421

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea necessarily but it would have to be run by trusted and competent leadership and have some very clear purpose so that it doesn't overstep its boundaries

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We should buy a horse

>>32335470
>kingdom
muh nigga

>>32335256
>Research projects
1. The arrow equivalent of paintball for training purposes. Enchanted to REDUCE damage so it doesn't accidentally harm the target.
2. Melee weapons of the same weight as the real thing, enchanted to not cause harm as well (stopping enchantments on impact).

Both can be used for wargames to improve troop quality

>>32335470
horses cannot compete with magitech. And it gives wonderful flavor to the setting.

>>32335502
there is nothing that paintball swords can do that simple wooden swords can't do cheaper. aspie has already shot down the paintball arrows as well because of the inertia still making them dangerous. give it up.

>>32335455
>I wouldn't be opposed to the idea necessarily but it would have to be run by trusted and competent leadership and have some very clear purpose so that it doesn't overstep its boundaries

Personally I want to have the beginnings once we get law and order back. Like get some competent leadership now then recruit from orphans and the likes who have no family. That way betrayal would be like betraying a close family member and be unlikely.

>>32335502
Unfortunately, as I understand it, troops don't gain experience beyond Green unless it's a life or death fight.
Possibly game balance purposes.

>>32335256
>construction plans
We should expand the magitech factory in vitria. We got the money and its a worthwhile investment

>>32335542
>there is nothing that paintball swords can do that simple wooden swords can't do cheaper
Nobody said anything about paintball swords
>aspie has already shot down the paintball arrows as well because of the inertia still making them dangerous.
which is why they are enchanted to stop on impact.

>>32335551
Better green than conscript

>>32335558
expanding the factory would only give us higher output. we'd still need to put money into it, and I think that what's we've got now is a good cost-outcome ratio.

>>32335542
>aspie has already shot down
I didn't see aspir say anything of the sort
>give it up.
You are being an asshole. Don't

>>32335599

Aren't we running a massive surplus right now? Having higher capacity could be useful

>>32335256
So we going or...?

>>32335558
Right now we honestly need to make more factories in more places. Having one place making 2 things vs 3 places making things.

>>32335630
I like running a massive surplus. It gives us much more room to maneuver with the coming fights. I was thinking that a better use of the surplus would be to either start creating that Marnn fortress or build a magitech for something we haven't covered yet. that's my thoughts, anyway.

>>32335599
>expanding the factory would only give us higher output.
Which is what I desire
>we'd still need to put money into it
Yes, I know, so?
>and I think that what's we've got now is a good cost-outcome ratio.
You are either assuming ever larger scale production will reduce the cost-outcome OR stating that its not worth investing more money in improving the cost-outcome ratio.
Regardless of which it is, cost-outcome ratio is irrelevant here. we have a large surplus of income and nothing to spend it on. Allocating it to producing more magic weapon is a wonderful way to spend it

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"Salamander, Gnome, please refrain from stripping my squire in the future,” you say, crossing your arms over your chest. “Especially outside my bedroom – it’s not what I want to wake up to. And Finn, those are some… very interesting tattoos. I get the feeling we should talk about those a bit more.”

There’s a trio of exclamations from the girls around you.

“Squire!” Gnome says. “You’ve taken on an elf as a squire?”

“Do you really need a squire?” Sarah asks.

“Eh? Really? You took a boy as a squire?” Sala says, a finger dangling playfully from her lips. “I didn’t know that was your interest, Tallie.”

With the girls distracted, Finn makes a dive for his tunic and hurriedly dresses himself, his face bright red as he pointedly refuses to look in your direction. You take the moment to calm the girls, and openly ignore Sala’s jibe. Once dressed, Finn looks over to you and begins to speak, before his eyes widen and he looks away, face even redder than before.

“Um, my lord, I’m sorry for disturbing your sleep,” Finn says, likely embarrassed by seeing Sarah in her sheer nightwear. At least, you hope it’s from seeing Sarah.

“Call me Talon and don’t apologise for the actions of silly familiars who should know better,” you say offhandedly as you shoo the others to get some breakfast.

“I was making a very important observation, just as Mal would do,” Sala says, puffing her chest out.

“Mal doesn’t strip young girls for spurious reasons,” you say as you step back inside with Sarah to get dressed.

Stepping back outside, you find the three of them still waiting. Finn is clearly waiting for you, but the other two are clearly just lingering. If you’re not imagining things, Gnome is a little upset over Sarah and Sala is just being Sala. As you walk to breakfast you…

>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
>2. Talk to Sala about the tattoos
>3. Talk to Gnome about Sarah
>4. Talk to Sarah about <write-in>

I think we should try to spend some time with Lynn we haven`t done anything with her in a while

>>32335684
Speaking of something we haven't covered. I've thought about making a earth manipulating device. That way we can give it to trained engineers and build walls and shit when our armies camp out.

>>32335670
>Right now we honestly need to make more factories in more places. Having one place making 2 things vs 3 places making things.
We can't build factories in other places without finding more machinists.

With current budget we can afford both, but our 1 and only machinist is in vitria. So I suggest we BOTH enlarge the factory he is managing AND look to recruit more machinists

>>32335696
talk to finn about the tats. I think talking to gnome should also happen, that looks like something we shouldn't let fester.

>>32335696
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
cue the waterworks

>>32335696
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
>3. Talk to Gnome about Sarah

>>32335696
>At least, you hope it’s from seeing Sarah.

itshabbening

>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos

>Speaking of something we haven't covered. I've thought about making a earth manipulating device. That way we can give it to trained engineers and build walls and shit when our armies camp out.

I'd be fine with that so long as we don't use it for tunnels.

>>32335696
>At least, you hope it’s from seeing Sarah.

Oh hahaha.

>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos

might as well get the source.

>>32335696
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
>4. Talk to Sarah about her loose hole

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>>32335558
You've actually got an almost completely empty foundry in Darlesia now. You'll need to spend time renovating it, but it would give you more factory space for the cost and time than expanding the Vitrian foundry. There'll be plenty of details of your current set-up and the costs of expansion shortly. The foundries are big money sinks (just like modern manufacturing!).

>>32335711
Is it bad that I got really excited when I read that as 'earthquake manipulating device'? 'cause that's also something that seriously needs to be made. Finger of God up in this bitch.

>>32335764

Well then, that sounds like something worth spending money on

>>32335764
I was under the impression that machinists are rare and that our only one is in vitria.
Wouldn't the vitrian factory suffer if we relocate him to darlesia to rebuild the factory there?

Also, what is the status of the factory in Taour?

Ah, also I noticed that we have been using the word factory for both the building, and the ... device that takes in components and assembles them. Can we clarify the terminology a bit?

>>32335696
>3. Talk to Gnome about Sarah
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos

>>32335802
>Wouldn't the vitrian factory suffer if we relocate him to darlesia to rebuild the factory there?
specifically the part where he is current performing research in vitria

>>32335769
We could go for that I suppose. I was thinking more being able to build walls and shit though. Mainly because I noticed we like to wall up and use traps. But it takes time from Gnome and our mages to do that. So if we could have some normal guys trained on how to build walls with a device then we could devote all of Gnomes and our mages we have time to traps. Which would mean we would have more.

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>>32335802
>Wouldn't the vitrian factory suffer if we relocate him to darlesia to rebuild the factory there?
The machinist is largely used for constructing new components, testing and major maintenance. It's like how you might need a civil engineer to design a building and maintenance plan but not to actually do the maintenance. Of coruse, any time he's doing construction he can't do research but that's true even in Vitria.

>Ah, also I noticed that we have been using the word factory for both the building, and the ... device that takes in components and assembles them. Can we clarify the terminology a bit?
I discreetly swapped to using foundry for the building and factory for the fabrication devices.

>>32335819

Remind me, what research was he doing again? Was it mass producing arcane archer equipment?

>>32335696
>3

>>32335802
Pretty sure it is mostly on auto.

>>32335839
incremental improvements to the AA equipment quality

>>32335858

Oh, while that's important, I can definitely see reconstruction of the factory taking precedent then

>>32335835
Alright then.

Well, renovating the foundries in darlesia and taour should be a priority. As well as actually copying the blueprints from the captured factories from both and storing it in capital so that sabotage would not result in loss of knowledge.

What is the status of the taour factory?

Also, have we looked for any other machinists?

>>32335833
I realize the wall-building machine is much more useful for the long term plans and tactics, but come on. we could have a magical earthquake machine. We point it at the enemy's camp and watch as all their supplies gets destroyed by the localized destruction.
>>32335835
So, we could easily have the guy just cycle between each foundry over the course of months, then, to maintain each one. It sounds like a plan.

>>32335901
I don't think its that easy to make earthquakes. Also, it might be possible for enemy mages to shield against.

>>32335901
>I realize the wall-building machine is much more useful for the long term plans and tactics.

I honestly mainly got the idea from the old Roman methods of quick wall building. Nothing says "Fuck you!" Like building a wall around a castle so people have to siege you to stop your siege of their castle.

> but come on. we could have a magical earthquake machine. We point it at the enemy's camp and watch as all their supplies gets destroyed by the localized destruction.

I feel like doctor doom reading this and enjoying this picture.

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>1.

You walk alongside Finn and decide to get straight to the heart of the matter.

“So, Finn, why do you have so many tattoos?” you ask.

Finn gets a little nervous at the question. “They’re something that all of my people have. We’re given them over time as we get older. I think I have more than most elves my age but I don’t know why…”

You frown at that. “You don’t know why you need to have so many tattoos? Is it just a symbolic thing?”

Finn shakes his head, clearly troubled. “I think they’re important but the sages are always refusing to answer my questions. I think they’re maybe about extending life.”

You’re about to ask a little more when the breakfast room comes into sight. Mal and Vad greet you, Mal’s eyes flicking over your new squire.

“So you really did take on a cute little elf boy as your squire?” Mal asks, grinning slightly.

“You should see him in a fight – certainly takes you by surprise,” you say, not taking the bait. “Pretty good with combat magic, even if that’s all he can do.”

“That’s because he’s Daerfir, Talon. They’re all about combat,” Sala says.

Mal starts when he hears that Finn is a Daerfir, though you don’t recognise the word. “Daerfir? Really? Huh, I’ve read a lot about your kind… Tarfinn, I think it was? I’m surprised to meet one.”

Everybody steps into the room itself, and you find that Tsucchi, Lynn and Undine have already started on breakfast. Taking a seat, you gesture to Mal to speak up a bit about the Daerfir. Finn looks a little interested himself.

>continued
>next update will be a little slower. Sorry about that. I try not to do this but infodumps are a bit annoying to write.

When we fought taour they fired a balista bolt that was enchanted to pierce right through the shields used by our mages.
I want that bolt recovered, analyzed, and duplicated.

Both in full size as a balista bolt. And as a miniature (and obviously weaker) version for our AA to snipe enemy mages

>>32335901
>>32335900

We desperately need more mages in general.

It's time for headhunters. We are an up and coming company, perfect fit for enterprising and ambitious mages looking to make their place in the world.

We got the gold, we got the opportunity, we have to advertise it

What do people think of letting the dorfs resettle Marn? Depending on how much support they need to clear out the monsters and resettle it could vary from a trading partner all the way to just another archduchy.

>>32335922
oh, clearly it's not easy to make an earthquake machine, otherwise we'd already be completely wrecked. but think of the possibilities if we could create machines that control localized natural disasters. Tornado in a bottle. Flood in a can. a music box that causes an earthquake as long as it's played. It's totally out of our range right now, but end-game, against the Lords, it would be SO COOL.

>>32335948
+1

>>32335956
actually, that is a good idea.
spending some of our budget on luring mages to work for the military is a good idea.

Also, IIRC I asked last thread how we go about training combat mages (which differ from tower mages) and aspir said he would go into it in a future update.

>>32335957
oh, hey. That fortress idea. Dwarf Embassy. We let them excavate the mountains for us, and we get them sweetheart trading deals.

>>32335956

There's huge upheaval in RSK and I'm sure not all of their mages are happy, we could focus recruitment there as well.

>>32335957
>Let dwarves hang out at that mountain
Maybe. It's awfully close to home, but the trade routes would be nice.

>>32335956
Honestly right now I would rather get law and order. Half of Taour is 1 and 1 on that which is a slight problem.

>>32335956
Agreed.

I'm of the opinion we should make the mages tower extension or next building project for that exact reason.

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>>32335941
Taking a plate, helpfully piled with food by Lynn, Mal frowns as he begins to talk. “Every enchanter finds themselves wondering at some point whether they can enchant people. Whether they can imbue magic into a person to make them stronger or faster rather than merely doing it to the item – like empowerment but cast by a different mage. That enchanter will then learn about the Daerfir.

“The elves supposedly have several subspecies, including the Aefir who are generally separate from the other elves. Each subspecies effectively has a caste – the Daerfir are the soldier caste. They’re born with a large amount of latent magic inside their bodies that they cannot use for spells, unlike other elves. The texts make it seem like the Daerfir are looked down upon as a result of this. The Daerfir are covered with tattoos to draw out their magic, in a way similar to enchantment but with the magic already present in their bodies. These tattoos enable them to regenerate wounds, be fast as a cheetah, strong as an ox – the works.”

Mal gives a level gaze at Finn, who still look very interested to find out more about his own race. Then Mal looks at you and you have a feeling what he’s about to say may not be all that positive for Finn. You ask Mal to…

>1. Tell Finn the last part.
>2. Tell you the last part in private.
>3. Custom

>>32335957
Would need to first get to them. Then we would need to know enough about them to get some to agree to help us out.

>>32336015
That may piss off a certain archmage.

>>32335956
We do need to do this though. Look for more mages.

>>32336068
>>1. Tell Finn the last part.

Transparency, motherfucker

>>32336068
>1. Tell Finn the last part.

>>32336068
1

>>32336068
>1
He's gotta learn to be a man.

>>32335957
>What do people think of letting the dorfs resettle Marn?
The dorfs escaped marnn due to horrible monsters.
We probably have to clean out the mountains first before they can resettle.
It is possible they are long gone and the dorfs just don't CARE to resettle since they already have other new cities elsewhere and have for a long time.
Its not like we are denying dorfs access to our nation

... but if it is horrible monsters that are still there. Talon slaying them and inviting the dorfs back would be a nice gesture

>>32336074

Do you mean the Archmage of Magi League? I don't think she'd have a problem with us indirectly weakening their rivals.

Or do you mean the Archmage rebelling against RSK? It's not like they can do anything to us right now

>>32336068
>1. Tell Finn the last part.

>>32336042
>Honestly right now I would rather get law and order.
that is a good point. We should be getting personally involved. Honestly before doing anything else we need to solidify our control over existing territories

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>>32336102
Actually, the dwarves in Marnn were wiped out by Kushan a thousand years ago. The monsters came after that.

>>32336121
>>32336121

Couldn't we do both? I think both "MORE MAGES" and" LAW AND ORDER" are pretty important priorities

>>32336068
>1. tell Finn the last part.

We're being open and honest about our new friend. We should encourage Mal to be careful in his words, though, so as not to give our new squire a complex.

>>32336128
Is it possible to 'purge all monsters' in that place?

Or rather, is it 'realistic'? Without massive loss of life, time and equipment?

If so, then it may be better off as a landmark.

>>32336128
oh, the dwarves might actually like us a whole lot if we gave them back Marnn then. Everybody wins!

>>32336163
>Is it possible to 'purge all monsters' in that place?
>Or rather, is it 'realistic'?
Actually, go back to possible.
Don't monsters spontaneously form around places of power? Purging them would just mean new ones will form

>>32336105
Ah, Read that differently right there due to the rebelling in the Magi league. Yeah if it was the RSK it would work better. Though it shifts things around to possibility making the king there angry.

>>32336179
He wiped them out not drove them out.
The dwarves that currently exist are not descendants of those who lived there before. But of those who weren't there.
Not sure if they will actually be interested

>>32336185
Both are good questions, I think.

We may need to lock down the PoP and see if we can't stop monsters from forming.

But this is like, a really really side project type thing. Hell, it may not even be possible.

>>32336185
well, when the dwarves were in Marnn, they clearly had some kind of system to cleanse the PoP of monster spawn. IT was only after Kushann killed them all that whatever system they had fell apart. I think we should get in touch with the stout ones and ask them about that.

>>32336214
>We may need to lock down the PoP and see if we can't stop monsters from forming.
IIRC PoP monsters can't leave the PoP.

>>32336179
>1000 years ago.

About as much as if you gave a modern day Mongolian a mountain in china.

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>1.

You gesture to Mal to finish. He sighs, but does so.

“Elves aren’t usually a long-lived race. That’s the dwarves – they just keep on trucking until something kills them,” Mal explains, being obviously roundabout. “Elves use regenerative magic on themselves to keep themselves alive for centuries. This is why the Aefir losing their magic is such a problem as it means they need to rely on other elven races to prolong their lifespans. The Daerfir are the exception as their innate magic means they age slowly and live effectively forever.

“By placing the tattoos upon them, starting at childhood, the Daerfir age at the same rate as humans and other elves but as a consequence they also only live for about two centuries. Eventually, the unnatural draw on the magic of their bodies causes them to die even as they still appear to be in the prime of their life. Strokes, massive organ failure, seizures… There’s a very good reason why every enchanter reads about the Daerfir when they want to learn about enchanting people and then never looks into the topic again.”

The room is silent at that, and you keep a close eye on Finn. He looks upset about the news but…

“So, that means I still one hundred and eighty years to reverse it, right?” he asks, looking at Mal with a trace of steel in his eyes.

“Well… if you can reverse it, yes,” Mal asks, surprised.

Finn nods several times, as though he’s trying to reassure himself. The girls in the room give you a few looks and you realise this is a time when you should speak up for your squire.

>How do you respond to the revelation?

Next post will be the last post of this scene before management stuff starts

>>32336235
Heh. I got a similar feeling.
Actually, about as much as if you give a modern day vietnamese a mountain in china because that mountain used to belong to mongolians and they are all chinks to you.

I mean, the elves have a dozen races and elf on elf racism. Dwarves probably do too

>>32336128
He sounds like a bit of a dick. I'm going to call him wizard hitler from now on.

>>32336235
do dwarves live long lives in this setting? because if they're as long-lived in this setting as they are in others, it might be only a few generations for them. the memory might still be fresh if they are as long as the Elves.

>>32336233
This reminds me we really need to get the last sister too. Since the region she is in has another POP and her own POP. Which would let us bind her.

>>32336261
"I knew there was a reason I liked you, Finn. Determination. Fire. Aspiration. Good qualities you have there. Let me know if there's something I can help you with in your studies while you're learning under me."

I like this guy. He's cool.

>>32336261
"Well. This certainly puts a damper on things. I don't doubt we'll have collected the greatest mages in the land by the time I'm through. We'll have this fixed in no time."

>>32336261
"We have 180 years to see what we can do."

>>32336266
It's funny, because he basically IS Wizard Hitler.

>>32336266
>Kushan
>A dick

Considering when we where talking about doing something with an evil mage the first thing Aspirational thought was "Hmm, Kushan would work nice here. I would say yes he was a dick.

>>32336287
I would rather not use the other pop in the same territory for that purpose, we are short on them already and by visiting HER pop we can get her just fine without using the second pop.
Also I am seriously doubting we can use that pop for her, since it is attached to a different source than the one she is connected to.

Actually, a clarification on pop visit acquisitions would be welcome.

>>32336262
Yes and no. See, their generations are longer for one thing, but more importantly the dwarves are currently a single nation surrounded by two warring superpowers, and my reading of the situation is that they haven't exapanded at all for a long time. Thus, the opportunity to set up a second kingdom, as well as funnel those unhappy with the current order might be considered worthwile.

>>32336261

180 years is a very long time, particularly when you are 20 years old. It won't be a problem etc etc etc

>>32336383
That's what I mean there. Use her POP to bind her. Then use the other one for Undine. Lets us get two things down in one territory.

>>32336323
+1

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>Supportive

"You just proved right there why I made you my squire, Tarfinn. Determination. Fire. Aspiration. All good qualities you have in spades,” you say, placing a supportive hand on Finn’s shoulder as you speak. “If there’s anything I can help you with in you studies while you are my squire, just let me know. One hundred and eighty years is a long time to solve this, so I doubt you’ll have any problems.”

Finn gives you a bright smile in return. “Thank you, Lord Talon. I’ll be sure to reverse it and still be able to assist you as ably as possible as your squire.”

“Just call me Talon,” you growl slightly.

Finn gives you a dubious look at the idea but nods anyway. You suspect the battle to get him not to act so subservient to you will be a long one. The breakfast proceeds for a short while, before all of you begin to shift over to the war room to discuss plans for the empire. As you rise, you notice the two foxes. Although they’re not strictly loyal to you, they might be able to help you and you may even be able to establish Vad’s loyalty to you over the fox alliance. On the other hand, you’re unsure of the degree to which you want them involved in your empire’s management.

>1. Invite both of them to the war room.
>2. Invite Vad to the war room.
>3. Invite Tsucchi to the war room.
>4. Invite neither to the war room.

>>32336403
oh, I misunderstood than.

So, a few questions
1. Most mage familiars don't have a pop involved. as I understand it, visiting her pop to bind her as familiar is just a method of acquisition that is more reliable than summoning (that can easily fail if you are not powerful enough).
2. What is talon's elemental affinity? It was mentioned earlier that mal's is fire and sarah's air.
3. Is having her as second familiar for talon, sarah's familiar, or someone else's familiar what we desire?

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>>32336467
>1.
A mage could, if they knew how, bind a PoP and the familiar with it.

>2.
Talon doesn't have elemental affinities as he's not a sorcerer.

>>32336465
>>1. Invite both of them to the war room.

For the diplomacy and VAMPIRE RESEARCH talks, excuse them for boring domestic talk. They wouldn't be useful there anyway

>>32336465
1
I don't see them as ever being more loyal to us than their clan, since its literally their family.
But I don't see a problem with including them in the current discussions as its nothing we need to keep secret.

>>32336493
I like this. Invite both for the relevant bits, then excuse then for empire managing.

>>32336523
they might actually have useful info for empire management.
Also, anything we actually decide for empire management is going to be public knowledge. Only things that we discuss but decide AGAINST are going to be a "secret" (and by that I mean not widely known)

>>32336465
>1. Invite both of them to the war room.

>>32336465
>1
We still need to chat with Tsucchi bout fate points...but later, since we have war stuff to plan.

For now, try and solidify them as OUR allies, then.

>>32336559
oh yea, good point. We desperately need her astral knowledge. She doesn't really need the management info but if we treat her with cold speciousness than she is less likely to help
PS. already voted, don't double count

>>32336465
1

They are part of empire now. They deserve equal representation in its doings.

>>32336488
>A mage could, if they knew how, bind a PoP and the familiar with it.
Can you clarify how such a bond would work? Is the pop bound exclusively to the mage (providing only the mage with power) and the familiar bound exclusively to the mage (getting power only from the mage, which may be power the mage got from the pop)?
Or is the pop bound to the bond between mage and familiar and providing the familiar with power and not the mage?

Can talon get sylph as a second familiar? what would be the consequences of that? If not talon, who is the best candidate for being sylphs master? sarah?

>>32336641
>Sarah

Would barely be able to blow wind in someones face.

>>32336634
Tsucchi is an ambassador and NOT under our command in any way.
Vad is an enforcer (citizen of our empire who volunteers to militarily support us on behalf of his people)

>>32336488
>>32336641
Aspir, can you also clarify failed summoning? Mal mentioned sala "accepting being his partner". Does that mean that familiars basically get a very vague sense of who is summoning them and decide whether to refuse or accept the summon? I take it that showing up in person just lets you make a more convincing argument for them becoming a familiar, but they can still choose to reject you? In such a case we should probably bring with several candidates for master when we visit sylph. I guess technically we could communicate with her remotely (sending spell?) and try to convince her to answer a specific summon or to refuse summoning from enemies. But I get a feeling that asking her to just stay bored and alone in her cave for a long time will be unpaletable

>>32336727
sarah is decently strong. Not talon or mal level, but still decently strong.

>>32336488
How does having a familiar affect the rate of growth of a mage? Do their power grow faster, slower, or the same rate from having to support a familiar?

>>32336773
Sarah's a Journeyman mage. There's no way that she'll be able to a powerful familiar, much less a pure elemental. she could easily grow into that power, but she's simply too young.

>>32336773
Yeah, from what I understand mages tend to recquire some time to get stronger however. That is, they'll gradually increase their strength over time, but sustained combat will not accelerate their development as much as it does with others.

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>1.

You invite both foxes to the war room. Including them in the discussions won’t reveal anything too troubling and may help win their trust. Plus, they might have something to offer to you.

Stepping into the war room, you’re joined by Marcus, who is reviewing some financial documents. A sending device is set up on the currently inactive magitech table to contact Magister Farrell when the foundry discussions come up. Otherwise, the rest of your cabinet are still too busy to join you but you have the reports necessary for the meeting.

RANGER, KNIGHTLY and INQUISITORIAL ORDERS

“So Vad mentioned you found some candidates for your ranger order, Talon,” Mal says as everybody settles in.

After briefly explaining to the others what you plan for the ranger order, you respond directly to Mal, “There’s only ten of them, but there’s enough talent there to be able to train others and justify the order itself. I spoke to Lt General Moss last night as well and he’s supportive – having the order will also make it more possible to reward the arcane archer elite with an equivalent to knighthood.”

“You’ll unsettle the knights with that idea, Talon,” Gnome says.

Marcus nods, shuffling his papers. “You already have problems with the nobility, Imperator, is it wise to put the knights offside as well?”

“Couldn’t we just pacify them?” Undine says, and you give her a surprised look at her harshness. “Not like that, Talon. I mean that you could just set-up a royal knightly order, or whatever you might call it as an Imperator. The possibility of being able to serve as a Master in the knightly order at the heart of the empire should be able to distract them enough.”

>continued

>>32336826
>Sarah's a Journeyman mage
1. which is quite an accomplishment for her age.
2. "barely blow wind in someone's face" would correspond to being the familiar of a literal child with no training at all. Not being the familiar of a journeyman

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>>32336895
“Devious,” Mal says, with a chuckle. “Give Toren and Lucas Master positions, along with the grandmasters of any powerful orders formed later, and let the rest compete on merit. You could also use that to reward your best mage-knights and formalise your personal guard.”

You nod, thinking. The problem would be choosing a grandmaster – somebody with experience like Parras would be best but raw talent is also important. Loyalty is also an issue. Lynn fulfils the last two criteria, though you don’t know how well she would be as a grandmaster and her youth might be off-putting to many knights – though her ability to best any of them in combat might counter that to an extent.

You move on to another topic, “I was also thinking about forming a separate order focused on maintaining law and order. A specialised intelligence unit that could work against any insurrection or spies in our territory.”

“Feeling paranoid already?” Mal says with a slight grin. The others look a tad more unsettled.

“The nobles aren’t causing so much trouble as to require a dedicated force to quell them,” Sarah says, troubled.

“It’s not about the nobles in particular,” you say. “It would cover mages, enemy spies as well as general problems in the populace.”

“Depending on how it is set-up it could work very well or might have a negative impact on public order should they discover them,” Marcus says, rubbing his chin.

You shrug. The idea is still in a formative period. Organisation will be the most important part.

>Discussion time

I’ll call some votes in a little bit depending on the things you talk about.

Oh hey, how is our sending device thing coming along? We wanted to get it done as magitech. but what if instead of mass producing them we just get one custom made by hand for talon and his high command? There have been several instances in battle where we were screwed due to lack of communication and it is too costly (in lives) to wait on this issue. I suggest we immediately commission a few hand made sending devices so we have SOMETHING until either we get a mass produced version or talon learns to use sending spells himself

>>32336923
>Undine's idea to please the Knights
Love it. We have to do whatever we can to not negatively impact public order anymore. We're barely holding onto our lands as it is.

>New intelligence department upsetting people
Shit, really? Do they not want their empire to keep spies out of their lands?

Whatever...we'll need to set it up so it doesn't upset anyone, then. And keep it extremely secret.
...
Inviting the foxes may not have been a good idea.

>>32336923
Mentioning the trade-off between the authority of the crown given to them and the checks-and-balances we discussed (the magisters, the inquisitors, the lack of notoriety, etc) might be a good way to sell the inquisition. I still like the idea that the Inquisition is more Adventurers for the Crown, but intelligence is also good.

>>32336923
I say we go ahead with th ranger order and create an royal knight order with Lynn as for the inquisition I don`t know it could backfire

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>>32336742
You can't bind a familiar if they're unwilling. if you're in front of them you can discuss with them about the matter instead of just trying to summon them - which is important as you only get one shot at binding a familiar.

>>32336641
The former. Also, Talon can't bind Sylph himself as he has no way of binding her as she's not connected to his Source.

Best candidate would be a magister - affinities don't really matter too much if you do it in person and the PoP would reduce the strain a fair bit (Mal could take on a second familiar for instance).

>>32337002
The proposal so far has mostly been secret police from what I've gathered. It's been rather vague, so this is a prompt for people to try to flesh out exactly what they're interested in.

>Inviting the foxes may not have been a good idea.
Tsucchi can't actually tell anybody else about these things without breaking covenant with you. As for Vad, his trustworthiness is up to you.

>>32337010
What would 'Adventurers for the Crown' look like and what would their duties be?

>>32336896
In the original thread we asked if Sarah could summon Sylph and got pretty much "on a 20 and she would be very very weak."

>>32336923
>Depending on how it is set-up it could work very well or might have a negative impact on public order should they discover them
The way I am reading this is. Are we setting up a gestapo thought police that kidnaps people from their homes and tortures them.
Or are we setting up a network of informants with checks, balances, limited power, human rights, etc.
I am for the latter. The idea isn't to quell but to find wrongdoing. The primary purpose proposed earlier was to have auditors who basically go around and ensure people aren't abusing their political position. Eg, find and catch robber barons. Find corruption, etc.

>>32336923

Undine's idea is good, for the position of grandmaster, we can keep that position vacant for sometime. It would give incentive to ambitious candidates to great deeds.

While Lynn has the power, she doesn't have the maturity so this buys some time for her candidacy as well.

Inquisition needs further planning to get anwhere, we need some capable people for this and I don't think we have them right now.

>>32336923

Build a general spy network and intelligence agency as our priority instead of an inquisition.

It will give us the base infrastructure while accommodating the main function we need filling.

It can be 'upgraded' into an inquisition should a threat appear that warrants it. It keeps people onside, and its main use will be to monitor the activity's of foreign agents who will undoubtedly be on their way here as we speak.

Half of international politics is knowing what everyone else is going to do.

>>32337083

Yeah, auditors sound much better than inquisitors.

Auditors who are given authority to investigate and brings things up the letter so that they can't abuse their discretion.

>>32337116

I would divide that idea into two:

(1) Have a general spy network focused on foreign threats

(2) Have an internal, domestic system of auditors and investigators for domestic corruption, malfeasance and other injustices.

The two may cooperate but merging the two gives them far too much power and potential for overreach.

>>32337083
I second this notion that it should be the second one.

I'm not really good with the politics of it, but basically these guys are less 'secret police' and more...well regular police, where they seek out wrong doing, or abusive politicians or nobles, and bring them to justice. No kidnapping, or shady business, their job is to PREVENT that, not engage in it.

>>32337068
Roaming agents with a goodly amount of 'authority of the crown' going about and solving problems. Essentially, they're the good public face for the inquisition's intelligence. the real meat of spy v spy would be focused outwards. We can sell the adventurers as 'you have a problem your local people can't solve, you call on these guys'. kind of a royal strike force. I'm not sure I'm selling it right. They'd probably all be Magisters (IE, the people with actual authority to arrest people, rather than the Inquisitors who only do the investigating or the beaurocrats who track for corruption). Does this help any, or do you need something better?

What about Pharos for the Grandmaster position?

Failing that, what about a tourney to decide the initial GM and we make it a time based position. Like 4 or 5 years, then they hand off the reins to the next add elected by the Order itself.

>>32337159
Second, we already have a spy network leader, might as well give her money.

>>32337199
I would think that instead of an election, it'd be a tourney every 5 years, and then people can say 'yea' or 'nay' to whoever wins. That'd work for a knightly order.

>>32336923
If we do make the inquisition it would have to be loyal to us and only us. Because that is why Talon wants to make them. Just to have an executive arm that can hide as merchants and whatever else to look into matters of the state.

As for an imperial knight order. That could work pretty well if we could make it the best of the best kind of deal. Problem there is who to be in charge. Though I suppose it is theoretically possible we could break them down into three or so positions that are in theory co-equal and each control their own section of the greater order.

>>32337068
>The proposal so far has mostly been secret police from what I've gathered. It's been rather vague,
I remember there being a lot of back and forth with a lot of different suggestions about how to implement it.
And in fact the original proposition was for a NON secret police. Someone later suggested some secret.

The 3 suggested branches were
1. Auditors: Those people openly travel the nation looking for corruption. They audit the books of those of high rank (magistrates, mayors, etc) and inform talon of any found corruption. They don't have the power to arrest or indict anyone. Only collect information
2. Internal spies: Those people travel the nation but don't reveal their identity. Also send reports

Based on the above 2, suspected individuals will get higher degree of scrutiny from the capital. Either talon himself or his direct subordinates.

3. Informants. People with everyday lives and minimal training who provide info to handlers for extra income.

The Royal Order would be set up to all those with merit from the Knightly and Ranger Orders join yes? So it would be a huge collection of the best of the best.

>>32337188

My objection to this is that it does nothing to solve the overreach and abuse of power problem.

Having someone with the authority to both investigate and arrest individuals is problematic for many reasons, that responsibility needs to be divided.

No one is inherently trustworthy, particularly a group of people, you need to have eyes watching eyes.

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>inquisitors v auditors
So it looks like you guys want more of an aboveboard police force (which I personally envisage as being like Vimes' Watch from Discworld) than a secret police. If you keep it separate from Neir's spy network there'll be somebody else to head it up so you could either choose somebody internally (pose a suggestion) or I'll create a few characters who could fit the role to differing degrees.

>>32337091
>for the position of grandmaster, we can keep that position vacant for sometime
You would need somebody to act as the head of the order at least temporarily, even if it's yourself (though that wouldn't be the greatest idea to do for more than a short time given the point of the order).

>>32337199
>What about Pharos for the Grandmaster position?
You mean Phrace?

Also, the tourney would go to Lynn unless you convinced her not to participate. Could be a good way to show everybody how much ass she can kick, though.

>>32337251
You'd actually have royal knightly and ranger orders, in effect, unless you want to have three orders with some royal supraorder.

>>32337185
>but basically these guys are less 'secret police' and more...well regular police
the SPECIFICS that have been suggested for the "secret police" part is actually regular police doing out of uniform operations. Like, sting operations

>>32337188
Personally I would rather go for something like "magistrates who investigate and is the public face" Meanwhile in the background we have full on spies who pretend to be civilians, Noble maids, whatever else and feed information. To the organization. Then we have the specialist like assassins/warriors who are meant to be sent out when convert muscle is needed.

>>32337293
thats what secret police are anon.

>>32337282
Backing the police force.
having them separate from the spy and informant network will be very beneficial, having them as the main protectors of the people from open noble abuse will also be useful.

Frankly we might need a advanced court system, but thats for future investment into.

>>32337247

I like this idea, I would add an executive layer over the auditors and internal spies.

They'd be the ones who merge the reports and make decisions to apprehend indivduals. The larger judging process could go to a committee after that and Talon and Co. could be final arbiters and court of appeals.

Basically, adding an initial decision maker before Talon to save him a lot of work

>>32337282

>Lynn beating ass in a tourney among all of our best

I kind of want that.

>Supraorder vs. Multiple

I'm kind of in the former camp but fine with either

>>32337282

Backing Sam Vime's City Watch idea with a large budget for undercover investigations

Also backing character creation since no one we know seems to be a good fit for the job

>>32337365

That could lead to suspicion that Lynn's a dragon as well, which is a risk.

I kinda want to see that as well, but would Lynn make a good grandmaster? Grandmasters probably do more management than kicking ass

>>32337247
Yeah. My main thought was like this. Though I do want the very top to be loyal to Talon and only Talon and we will need something combat capable in this in case we need to take someone out whenever is needed. But that should be at the very top and only doable by Talon giving the executive order.

>>32337282
>Also, the tourney would go to Lynn unless you convinced her not to participate. Could be a good way to show everybody how much ass she can kick, though.
If we appoint lynn, than having her WIN that position via a tourney would be better than just appointing her
If we just appoint her then it would undermine the whole thing "oh that, talon appointed as headmaster this 19 year old slip of a girl who he is shagging" doesn't really scream elite.
But "she kicked the asses of every other head of knight organization" does.

However, I am somewhat confused as to what the specifics we are currently talking about are

>>32337393
unnaturally strong does not = dragon on the off.
There are many kinds she could be mistaken for, so let them mistake her. But no bugger is going to think dragon.

>>32337282
>You'd actually have royal knightly and ranger orders
Do we have to call it a "ranger order"?
It seems like a better idea to call them knightly order and just treat them as another order.
Also, I think that what we should do is provide them with financing towards building the order. But not actually officially publicly name it as one until it actually IS. that is, when we have some 50+ members. Or... recognize it as "potential" new order which has to meet certain predefined criteria before becoming a full real order.

>>32337269
>No one is inherently trustworthy, particularly a group of people, you need to have eyes watching eyes.

Yeah. Honestly it's kind of the reason I want to go for the poor and the orphans and the likes for this. Hard to beat "We will raise you. Then we will give you extra income while training you to be a merchant. All you have to do is send back reports to us."

>>32337393

Would it though? She's one of a kind as confirmed by QM. Not many will think that right off the bat.

>>32337393
>>32337456
Isn't lynn like, the only known half dragon half human? With her father having to first invent a way to make the two compatible? she is basically his proof of concept prototype for a way to rebuild his race via half human hybrids. (if I understand correctly)

>>32337282
oh, so the knightly orders fill that 'adventurer' niche? The way I was reading them, they functioned as mercenaries for their home cities, like the Golden Bears for Vitria. Guess I didn't understand things

>>32337461

I mean it's all the same really. We could actually circumvent a smaller issue by not formally calling them by a different name.

>>32337508
>>32337456
>>32337481

Good point, but my bigger concern is whether Lynn would make a good grandmaster.

How much management is involved in grandmastering a knight order? How much kicking ass?

There's been no indication that Lynn's particularly proficient at the former

>>32337282
I love sam vimes and the watch :). Isn't there already such a thing?
What I was imagining was more of an IRS/police internal affairs department. But city watch is important too
Also, new character sounds best

>>32337461
Yes, yes we do. Because it is differentiated by more than just weaponry, in that its supposed to be full of elite skirmishers.

>>32337561
>but my bigger concern is whether Lynn would make a good grandmaster.
>How much management is involved in grandmastering a knight order? How much kicking ass?
I agree that those are more important questions. I am honestly NOT getting the grandmaster vibe from her personality. She seems more of a "I want to personally fight strong stuff because its FUN" not a "I want to do boring paperwork and train people and make political decisions".

I also completely lost the train of the discussion and I am not sure how it even came to be that people were talking about her being a grandmaster. what is actually the current plan?

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>>32337393
Grandmasters basically need to be leaders, generals and warriors first, political animals second and administrators a distant third. This is especially so for a royal order whose finances etc would be handled by others.

>>32337573
Vimes does a lot more than just city watch duties in the books. He covers a lot of modern federal police work as well.

GRANDMASTER VOTE

>1. Appoint somebody directly
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>3. Hold a tourney and elect the victor grandmaster
>4. Custom

RANGER ORDER

>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>2. Create an order that is nominally a knightly order but focuses on archery
>3. Have your royal knightly order also accept archers as well as knights. This may put Hartman (the head of the ranger band) offside slightly unless you made him grandmaster.
>4. Custom

AUDITORS

>1. Have your intelligence division (led by Neir) also head your internal affairs unit
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.
>3. Have both your intelligence and internal affairs work under a supraunit that controls both before reporting to you.
>4. Custom

Any other votes I missed?

>>32337573
>IRS

pls no. pls no. I deal enough with them in real life. I'd take the FBI over the IRS any damn day.

>>32337616
>GRANDMASTER VOTE
grandmaster of what? I lost track of the discussion.

>>32337561

Then we have her surrounding by the best we got to learn. The two Grandmasters in Vitria are top tier they can teach, and she has us. I think she'll manage, she has to learn somehow

>>32337616
>3
>2
>2

>>32337616
3
1
2

>>32337616
GRANDMASTER VOTE
>3. Hold a tourney and elect the victor grandmaster

RANGER ORDER
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function

AUDITORS
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.

>>32337616
3
1
3

>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>3. Have both your intelligence and internal affairs work under a supraunit that controls both before reporting to you.

We should make the punishments for lying and corruption really high in the Auditors. That way people will tend to ignore bribes because if they get caught they are fucked.

>>32337616
>3
>1
>2

>>32337616
>3
>2
>3?

Last one isn't my forte. But sure

>>32337616
>3
>2
>3

>>32337616
>3
>1
>2

>>32337616
3
1 (if they bitch we'll just ask them why none of the knightly orders extended a single invitation to a AA. Cue awkward shuffling)
3

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>>32337638
You're forming royal ranger and knightly orders. Hartman will be grandmaster of the ranger order (as there's nobody else with the talent) and your voting on the grandmaster of the knightly order.

>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>2. Create an order that is nominally a knightly order but focuses on archery
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.

>>32337719
AAs have only existed for a few months. They probably have no idea what to do about them.

>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>3. Have both your intelligence and internal affairs work under a supraunit that controls both before reporting to you.

I don't know who's scarier the IRS or the Inquisition

>>32337616
>Grandmaster
>1
We need someone that is powerful BUT also a good political and admin. Hopefully, you'll help suggest some worthy of the job.

>Ranger Order
>2
I hope this doesn't upset Knights?

>Auditors
>3

>>32337719

Oh man that's perfect. We're set to bitch slap all bitching.

>>32337616

>3
>2
>2

>>32337616
3
1
2

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So there's a crapton of votes. I'd normally wait longer but this many votes already covers pretty much everybody who normally participates.

Results are:
>3
>1
>3

>>32337756
>I don't know who's scarier the IRS or the Inquisition
http://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/10-medieval-torture-devices10.htm

>>32337756
>I don't know who's scarier the IRS or the Inquisition

How about IRS who is also the inquisition and has fucking Ninjas as paid employes?

>>32337616
3
since it let us get another strong character
1
this has been in the planning for the longest time
2
3 is a bureaucracy, which are bloated and slow and 1 gives too much power to Nier.

A 'superunit' controlling both out internal and external intelligence networks is too dam powerful. There's a reason why these two are always split up in real life.

>>32337845

Yup, but the voters have spoken. We are going to have to keep a very careful eye on this particular unit and its leaders

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>>32337836
>Ninjas

>>32337825
uh, Aspie, 2 won. No supraunit.

>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.

>>32337825

I like how we just forced you write a tourney for us. That'll be fun to see. Would Phrace get involved? Might be interesting to see our lesser explored martial characters do something.

>>32337653
>>32337664
>>32337665
>>32337688
>>32337703
>>32337751
>>32337788
>>32337817
2
>>32337668
>>32337686
>>32337697
>>32337701
>>32337719
>>32337756
>>32337765
3
>>32337825
2 won

>>32337834
I always laugh that people seem to think that the real life inquisition killed much of any people. I think more people die of stairs in a year then they killed in 200 years.

>>32337836
you forgot wizards.

>>32337880
I counted 8 for 2, 7 for 3. I think he might be right. Somebody double-check me.

>>32337897
>I like how we just forced you write a tourney for us
speaking of tourney.... a question is raised about who can compete
is it open to public? or what...

>>32337902

It's their ability to ruin your day without due process that would make them feared, not their capacity for mass murder

>>32337902
>They didn't kill a LOT of people
But they did kill people.
How many people does the IRS torture to death? without due process?

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>>32337880
I didn't count the two votes immediately above that when I made my post. So yeah, 2 won. Small difference overall to me.

>>32337900
They may have been too late

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>>32337834
Sometimes I forget that the middle ages was sometimes the definition of metal and were fucking brutal

>>32337920

We could either go public within our sphere of influence, public to all, or invite only(with a prelim Tourney among our men for them to qualify, which Phrace could win).

>>32337949
People fear our government turning against us, I guess.

I have bets we won't hear much about them once we have things set up.

>>32337948
>How many people does the IRS torture to death? without due process?

They fuck your finances over which indirectly can fuck your home over. inquisition on the other hand maybe killed 1000-2000 people in 400 years. The Gestapo killed more people in the rule of Hitler in 5 years then the Inquisition did in over a hundred.

>>32337998
>People fear our government turning against us, I guess.
There are multiple reasons other than a coup to want some seperation of powers

>>32338037
I personally want to be able to assign blame in particular for when those organizations inevitably fuck up somehow.

>>32338073

Then we blame the organization's leaders, which is how things are always done

>>32337970
The middle ages where metal as all hell. Most people don't realize it but shit talking in the middle ages was asking for it. Because unlike today if you where shit talking back then you where saying they couldn't defend themselves. Meaning you where painting a "Kill me or risk dying" Sign over your head.

>>32338073
assign blame, less chance of missing info, appearances (less scary to populace), the fact that most people are not unaging and thus will have to be replaced at some point, different skillsets of the people in charge resulting in different structured organizations with different capabilities, etc

>>32338036

That doesn't address that anon's argument about due process.

The IRS can audit you or your business. The Inquisition can hold you in custody without any due process, and they certainly weren't bound by the 8th amendment.

They really can't be compared.

>>32338037
>separation of powers

A really useful reason is if you ever need to purge a corrupt organization. You can always just take out the rotten part and then reassign. While leaving the rest of the branches.

>>32338073
We are pretty much creating public knowledge SHIELD. Waiting for HYDRA to infiltrate.

>>32338036
>Inquisition didn't kill that many people
ahem
>Pear of Anguish
>Very rarely fatal
your cunt/anus/throat might be wrecked for life but you were still alive

>>32338165

Another reason for separation of powers is that no one branch has sufficient power to really fuck things up without the other branch noticing and checking their malfeasances.

Checks and balances We Schoolhouse Rock now, bitches

>>32338167
exactly. Compartmentalization will help insulate us from the inevitable shadowruns that Aspie has planned for us.

>>32338151
I wouldn't compare but people really overestimate the power the Inquisition had.

>>32338167
>>32338204
>>32338199
+1 to all of these

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>3 & 1 & 3

“I like your idea, Undine,” you say. “A royal knightly order should work as a suitable distraction for my creating a ranger order. As for the intelligence unit, I think I’ll moderate it to act mostly as an anti-corruption force that operates separately to Neir’s spies. She might be able to help me with the specifics of setting that up.

“As for the grandmaster of the knightly order, I figure to hold a tourney to determine who is most eligible,” you continue, and Sala and Lynn perk up at the news. “The elementals aren’t allowed to join and there will be a preliminary qualification tourney to trim the number of contestants.”

Sala looks a tad annoyed, but Lynn seems almost bouncy. Vad seems interested.

“Can a fox be a knight?” Vad asks.

“Will you join the order when Lynn makes you eat dirt?” you ask bluntly.

“No.”

“Then no, you can’t be a knight, Vad,” you say and the fox clicks his tongue in annoyance.

EMPIRE STRUCTURE

“We still have the issue of the design of the empire itself as it grows,” you say. “Currently Vitria is its own state within the empire so a possibility is to extend it to the other areas.”

“You mean have a series of duchies making of the empire? Won’t that just unnecessarily dilute your power?” Mal asks, sounding dubious. “Vitria’s one thing, given the way it joined and Sarah’s loyalty but why not just appoint some administrators and save the separate state structure for special occasions.”

>continued

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>>32338292
>3
Thought it was 2 now.

>>32338195
Yeah. On the other hand it wasn't that common. Hell the first proclamation that witches don't exist happened in about 1200 some by one of the most powerful bishops. Most kings really didn't want people with a lot of powers in their nation like that so a lot of the time they where fairly limited in most regions.

I'd honestly worry more about a full blown secret police then them.

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>>32338292
Sarah nods, an odd look on her face. “I agree. Vitria earned its place by allying with you early and we can be trusted to act loyally.”

“Why not have noble positions to rule the duchies but have them entirely answerable to yourself? I mean, I’m unsure how that differs to the approach with Vitria?” Tsucchi asks.

“Sarah swore fealty as a vassal to Talon,” Gnome explains. “So although Vitria is nominally an independent state ruled by Talon it is still directly ruled by him through that relationship. If you extend that structure out, Talon, then your ability to control a series of disparate states will be more dependent on the rulers than otherwise. A centralised bureaucracy will curtail nationalism and order slightly but will make it easier for you to maintain control.”

“It will also make you more resistant to corruption,” Marcus says. “The RSK structure ensures a large military and plenty of willing nobles to fight but damages trade. The Seraphs succeeded at being a dominant trade power in spite of its structure, with every noble levying their own taxes despite royal decrees otherwise.”

You wonder if there’s some alternative options. Right now there’s been three proposed – separate states ruled by dukes/archdukes; separate principalities that are administered by dukes/archdukes but you still retain ultimate authority over their lands rather than just them; and a centralised bureaucracy that rules the entire empire save Vitria.

>discussion time

>>32338199
I always love that method of rulership. Separate everyone into components and put yourself on top. Everyone is going to be fighting for power in one department while the other departments will want to increase their own. Meanwhile you just sit back and let them moderate each other.

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>>32338313
>– separate states ruled by dukes/archdukes; separate principalities that are administered by dukes/archdukes but you still retain ultimate authority over their lands rather than just them
Is my vote, ever since i saw how useless bureaucracies are in my country i always try to avoid them in games.

>>32338313
I want to do the administration thing, but I feel like there's a better method staring us in the face that we've just not picked up on yet. Let's talk this out a bit.

>>32338313
>“I agree. Vitria earned its place by allying with you early and we can be trusted to act loyally.”
I think this is the key issue.
Diluting power unnecessarily is pointless.
Vitria earned this position by allying with us early. Others might earn a similar position in the future. But I don't want to just carve up our land for no reason.

Also, the pros and cons are basically:
>carve it up
+military
-trade
-order
-control

Which is not worth it

>>32338313

I would propose a form of federalism here.

We will have a centralized bureacracy for essential state functions: Census, Tariffs, Interstate Commerce (i.e. any trade that happens with other regions of the empire or nations), Taxes, and our Police force.

We'd have local governments that would administer other areas of the state that would be unique to those regions. Their own customs, their own local laws, internal trade etc.

This would be helpful in making sure we have control over essentials while still giving them some sovreignty to be happy

>>32338313
Damn, this is kinda going over my head.

I shall let those who know government stuff handle it.

>>32338404
Is this essentially an argument over federalism vs. Feudalism right now?

>>32338383
We could go super local and just appoint a baron to control each single territory, rather than bunching them up into duchies.

That way, the individual barons would be weaker, and a larger central beaucracy would be needed to organize all of the individual baronies.

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>>32338376
*and because of that
>>32338404
That sounds like the second choice, since it still leaves some power to the remaining rulers, but we still have the final call.

>>32338404

Another advantage it has over just centralized bureacracy is that centralized bureacracy cannot adapt quickly to local conditions by its very nature.

This is problematic if you have a large and diverse empire, which is what we are aiming for.

Ceding local control over local practices is the best way to ensure adaptation while maintaining central control.

>“I agree. Vitria earned its place by allying with you early
If we don't somehow especially reward such early alliance then we do not create any REASON for anyone to join us peacefully.
If sarah is special because of how she joined, then we can bribe other smaller weaker nations with similar status to make them join peacefully.

We can always carve up some land in the future to give to a worthy person

>>32338443

I don't know, I'm just proposing Federalism as an alternative to Centralization and Feudalism right now.

>>32338451

Well, it's not ultimate control so much as we have a bureaucracy over certain key areas that we need to know as a single nation.

We need to control foreign trade and we will set up a department for that, the locals can make up their own law for punishing burning down houses since that doesn't concern an empire.

>>32338404
Yeah, this is what I was thinking; only with the local government unit being a barony.

A smaller class of hereditary aristocrats creates stability and makes the empire easier to control overall.

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>>32338303
It is if you read the text. I just forgot to change the number at the top.

>>32338376
You'll actually be creating more bureacracy that way. Decentralisation almost always results in bureaucratic duplication in practice but the decentralised areas can usually allocate resources more effectively due to being more specialised. In this case, I'm representing this largely as a trade-off between control (less bureacracy makes it easier for you to control things) and more effective function.

>>32338404
That could be either 1 or 2. To compare IRL, 1 as originally proposed is probably closer to the US (where the state governments have a lot of power) whereas 2 is more like Australia (where the state governments do comparatively little beyond planning and delivery).

>>32338443
I don't think that Feudalism would necessary work for a rapidly expanding empire. Feudalism is 'the power flows down' the successively lower power levels pay upward for the privilege of their power. That works well for a static nation, but with our rapid expansion, there will be too much effort to create that structure.

>>32338313
Personally I would go for an imperial law and bureaucracy. Meanwhile there would be lesser bureaucracy in provenance sized pieces of land. That creates localized laws and reports to the Imperial bureaucracy.

Imperial taxes and laws overrule all local ones. While we have our imperial men overlooking the local.

That way when we take over we can rapidly just stick our own men there and look at the local laws. Take what we think is culturally needed or useful then let the imperial laws override everything else.

Power wise we would be the supreme ruler and the guys looking over the laws are just considered emissaries of our will.

>>32338521
The Aussie model is probably better here. We want a local unit to deal with things that don't concern the overall Empire and to avoid annoying EU-like micromanagement; but at the end of the day, I think a strong federal core is what we're after.

>>32338521

Of the three, I'd be leaning closer to 2 (Australia), since we are still a relatively homogeneous and small state right now.

If we get so big and so diverse, then we could move closer to 1.

I would definitely insist that we set up an imperial bureaucracy for interstate commerce, taxes, and federal policing though.

>>32338443
Nah, the two ideas are a monolithic imperial bureaucracy or some from of federalism, the closest example of which I can think of offhand is the Safehold system. I'm in favor of a limited federalism

>>32338521
1 could work end-game, but we're still relatively small, so the Australia model is best. we can still react fast enough to not require a responsive local government.

>>32338458
>Another advantage it has over just centralized bureacracy is that centralized bureacracy cannot adapt quickly to local conditions by its very nature.
we are discussing whether to have substates or appointed beurocrats.

Talon
>Currently Vitria is its own state within the empire so a possibility is to extend it to the other areas.
Mal
>You mean have a series of duchies making of the empire? Won’t that just unnecessarily dilute your power?
>why not just appoint some administrators and save the separate state structure for special occasions.

So, either way there are going to be local rulers. The question is whether they are direct appointees of talon with little power. Or if they have a high degree of autonomy

I don't mind much either way, and I probably won't be here to vote, but please keep a strong central government.

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>>32338521
>You'll actually be creating more bureacracy that way. Decentralisation almost always results in bureaucratic duplication in practice but the decentralised areas can usually allocate resources more effectively due to being more specialised. In this case, I'm representing this largely as a trade-off between control (less bureacracy makes it easier for you to control things) and more effective function.
Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up, i was just trying to avoid what this image does.

>>32338521
Have you read the safehold series? Because that form of "Imperial federalism" was remarkably effective and seems pretty relevant.

>>32338617

And I favor autonomy on subjects that concern the region, and only the region.

Things that concern both the empire and the region, like trade between Vitria and Darlesia? That would be with the bureacracy and not local leaders if that makes sense

>>32338556
This also lets us fine tune the laws in the local districts for the situation there. We could split say Taour into their own bureaucracy.

On the other hand no law is above imperial law and we define that. Meaning anytime someone tries to make a large power grab we can call it a coup.

>>32338626
Well, yes, the American health care system is a mess. That has little to due with "big government"

>>32338626
Jesus Christ that is bloated, what is that?

>>32338617
Given the extent of the powers granted to our imperial bureaucracy, they won't have much power no matter how much autonomy we give them.

That's why I'm in favor of making the local unit a barony - i.e. its directly appointed by Talon now, but then it becomes a hereditary position, thereby promoting stable and continuous rule.

>>32338601
>Nah, the two ideas are a monolithic imperial bureaucracy or some from of federalism
All 3 suggested ideas are feudal AND federal in nature.
The only question is on the exact NATURE of the pieces in that federal/feudal structure

1. Archduchy idea
Lots of power to local nobles (who have their own armies and own laws). They politic amongst each other to form voting blocs. they could cause us lots of trouble. Also undermines our ability to have this as a REWARD and undermines sarah.
2. Beurocrats appointed by talon idea (mal)
We can overrule them on anything. They are mayors and the like who work for the state. Don't have their own armies.
3. Nobles appointed by talon idea (tsucchi)
We can overrule them on anything, but they have more power and authority. their own armies. Their own family name to promote. But they don't form power blocs since each one is indepedent of the others and answers directly to talon instead of answering to an archduchy council like in vitria

>>32338677
It'd probably be best to establish 'Imperial Regions' by which the central imperial bureaucracy can compare different areas - in the same way the US military splits the world into different zones of military operation, i.e. CENTCOM, etc.

>>32338716
>but then it becomes a hereditary position

Which is just asking to get a nutcase one day.

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>>32338629
I haven't. Feel free to propose and explain it.

>>32338601
It's really three ideas. Central bureacracy; delegating power to managers of larger units/states (but still retaining the power and ability to override them); giving power to the states that you won't get back without causing a major crisis (modern federalism).

Things like trade, federal policing, foundries etc will still remain empire issues. This mostly concerns your ability to influence areas more directly - the ability of modern federalist governments to directly influence outcomes from the very top is incredibly limited. (And I don't think i'll go further than that due to politics). Also, there'll be a certain degree of local management in all cases. Even a centralised bureaucracy still has branches.

>>32338556
This here would probably be my model for choice 2.

>Final bout of discussion before I call some votes, where I'll present what I'll be using as the gameplay trade-offs directly

>>32338684
1. Captitalism usually has highly efficient utilization of resources.
2. In health care that utilization of resources tends to leave poor people dead.
3. Most Americans find this immoral, but don't want a nationalized health care.
This is the resulting mess. Letting people die if they can't pay or nationalizing the whole thing would work better,

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The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his 'natural superiors,' and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, callous 'cash payment.' It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervor, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom—Free Trade. In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation.

The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honored and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage laborers.

The bourgeoisie has torn away from the family its sentimental veil, and has reduced the family relation to a mere money relation.

The time has come comrades! Let us create a new world free of the bourgeoisie, a paradise for the working man! Join me and vote!

>>32338755
Which isn't that bad, because the Baron's don't really control anything important (like big military formations or inter-regional commerce). They are more like a local complaints office for local citizenry and our the local enforcer of Imperial rules and provisions.

Nothing says we can't remove them from their position if they turn out to be crazy as well.

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>>32338778
>>32338796
Not to dampen discussion, but I would prefer if openly political discussions stay out of the thread. There's more suitable places for that on 4chan.

>>32338796
You know, the idea that everything is equal doesn't tend to work in a setting where some of the people are immortal superhuman intelligences.

>>32338720
Yeah. One thing people don't realize is feudalism only existed due to lack of resources. They needed to crowdfund shit so they gave people power like that. In a setting like that we really don't need to worry about that since we have sending devices. So no emperor would want true feudalism.

Which is why when kings got strong enough they centralized the hell out of that shit.

>>32338753
imperial regions is a good idea to implement the the bureaucrat appointee's idea from mal for regions lacking in nobility.
They are employees that can be fired rather then armed nobles with inheritable titles.

>>32338817
yes please. this quest is not dealing with that type of modern systems.

@Aspir, you said you would basically

>>32338774
>I haven't. Feel free to propose and explain it.
Its pretty close to 1, but tended more to be a method of rapidly convincing local rulers to play ball. Also, said local rulers tended to be on islands the size of greenland (but considerably greener), so central control was a terrible idea anyway.

>>32338827
you are pretty much right. We don't suffer the communication issues of ancient rome. We also happen to be unaging and at a pinch teleportation is available

>>32338807
Honestly I would rather go for just bureaucrats here. You want the position? Take the official test. Of course it is easy enough to pull them from the nobility given how well educated they tend to be.

>>32338827
>So no emperor would want true feudalism.
True. At the same time, the nobility is a very powerful force and inherited might is a Thing in this setting from what I can tell, so nobility will always be around in some form.

>>32338887

Of course, that would lead to the long term strategic goal of educating the populace for wider pool of talent.

Aspiring Emperor Quest: We Education Policy Now

>>32338899
The RSK and magi league are in a huge freaking war over the right to rule from blood. And our position on the issue is going to be a huge factor on our attempt to remain neutral with them. If we strongly favor one or the other they will make us enemies