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You have always wanted to be an emperor. That ambition has burned dimly in the past, tempered by reality. Now the opportunity to realise your ambition has arrived and you are determined not to let it slip. Now is the time to build your empire and become an emperor.

Last Thread: You are the knight, Talon York, and you are an emperor, but not the emperor… yet. Last thread you returned to Harrowmont to manage your empire and ambitions. While there you recruited a (apparently) young yet talented elf as your squire and a small band of veteran mercenaries for your planned ranger order. It is the next day and the management of your empire awaits.

Previous Threads: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Aspiring%20Emperor%20Quest
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AspirationalQM
Master Pastebin (links to all pastebins for AEQ): http://pastebin.com/6Su7M3fh
>no changes. That means some of these are out-of-date.

>some housekeeping
1. Next thread is May 30th at 6pm EDT.
2. This thread will concentrate on management decisions. My intention is to make most decisions now and carry them over for as much of the downtime as possible (to prevent having to do this too many times).

Rolls are d20 and the best of the first three posters. I may sometimes ask for more dice to be rolled by each player, but same rules apply otherwise. Please quote the post you are voting for or rolling against. Note there are hard-to-replace points that can be used to offset failures in rolls. Please see the General Pastebin, linked through the Master Bin above, for more info and detailed dice rules.

>Now, with further ado
>>
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A quick note for archive readers - the thumbnail is broken on suptg but the map itself it still visible if you try to view it.

>>32335221
Current Date and Time: Early morning on September 12th, 1952PC

>You have 0 FR points

There’s a warm sensation against your chest as you recover your consciousness. Your eyes flutter open and you see Sarah cuddled up against you. Her mop of silver hair rests just under your chin as she runs her fingers over your chest in haphazard circles. It’s a mildly pleasant sensation – and also not what you woke you up.

You hear a strangled shriek outside of your room along with a pair of other voices. You groan slightly, annoyed that your pleasant morning is being interrupted by this. You move slightly to motion to Sarah to let you up but she just gives you a slight glare and pouts.

“There’s enough people around to take care of it,” she says sulkily.

“And you’ll still be here after I investigate,” you say, motioning her away.

Giving you a slight harrumph, she rolls over to the other side of the bed, freeing your movement. You take the opportunity to rise and throw on some pants – another shriek rushes you a bit so you skip the rest of your clothing. You open the door and step out into the hallway, half expecting to see a bloody murder in process. Sarah is right behind you, wearing a slightly sheer shift, with that sulky look still on her face, wearing a slightly sheer shift. She bumps into you as you stop and stare at the sight in front of you.

“Talon, what-“ Sarah starts before she sees what stopped you.

>continued
>>
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>>32335239
Almost directly in front of your door stand Salamander, Gnome and Finn. Though Finn’s not so much standing as being held slightly aloft by Sala. Her hands are pulling his undershirt over his head and arms, his tunic already lying on the ground nearby. Finn appears to be trying to fight Sala off to no avail given the difference in their strengths. Gnome stands to the side with her arms crossed and a slightly amused look on her face.

“Oh, so I guess he is a boy,” Sala exclaims as you step outside, not ceasing in her efforts to strip Finn.

“Of course he is,’ Gnome says, one part exasperated but the other amused. “I know you’ve spent more time around elves than me so I’m surprised you couldn’t tell.”

“That’s precisely why-“ Sala starts to respond, yanking Finn’s shirt off him, causing the elf to fall slightly to hit the ground. The motion shakes him slightly and his vision turns just enough to see you.

As Finn stares at you in horror, you notice that his entire upper body is covered in intricate black and violet tattoos. They look elegant rather than tribal in nature, but it’s the sheer amount of them covering him that startles you. Almost every square inch of his skin, save his hands and face, is covered with them – the only gaps are the ones required for the patterns of the tattoos. Sala and Gnome catch Finn’s line of sight and turn. They look more like deer you’ve surprised in a forest than ancient elementals right now, though you catch Gnome’s gaze travelling slightly to the slight girl behind you.

The hall is silent now, save for the sound of awkwardness. You’re at a slight loss.

>How do you respond?

Okay, so quick heads up that this thread will concentrate on management decisions after a short scene introducing Finn to the rest of your group. If you have research projects, ideas for the organisation of the empire, construction plans etc then this is the thread to bring them up.
>>
>>32335256

"Nice Tats"
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>>32335256
"so... are they magic of some kind? Or is this going to turn horribly awkward now that we know this?
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>>32335256
"Salamander, Gnome, please refrain from stripping my squire in the future, especially in a public setting
>>
>>32335256

Off the top of my head, some of our diplomatic priorities were:

1. Figure out what to do with Farun, Termina, Campagnon.

2. Impending meetings with Magi League, RSK, and possibly the Mage Guard.

We should probably start discussing Campagnon first since their merchants can definitely swing results one way (building our devastated countryside) or the other (pissing off Vitria)
>>
>>32335256
Please don't rape my squires, thanks.
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>>32335256
"While i would be the first to encourage teasing, stripping a man naked, my squire no less, infront of my own door, is a little much"
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>>32335221
hey, Aspie. Can you please not disappear for a week like you did before? I know you didn't do the prep work that you wanted to do, but I was needing my empire-builder fix the entire time. You've got me hooked on this shit, man.
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>>32335329
IIRC we got a recommendation to do the meetings first before deciding what to do with the three city states. because our decisions about them have political reprecussions with the major powers
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>>32335256
"Those are some well designed tattoos there."
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>>32335256
Well I already dumped most of my research ideas a couple of threads ago (I hope you still have the good ones?)

Other then that...

"I see you've met my squire."

and

"Is that how you regularly figure out someone's gender, Sala? You know, when they start screaming, that's when you're SUPPOSE to let them down."
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>>32335221
Any chance you could run an hour earlier for european readers?
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>>32335256
>Sala, Gnome...
>My chambers now!
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>>32335355

That sounds fine, we could always use more information anyway before making the decisions

>>32335367

Repost for readers?
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>>32335256
clearly we've got some magical shenanigans. Probably some kind of binding ritual, if he's got to be that heavily inked. so, was he bound to somebody, or was something bound to him? either we've got an escaped elven slave (elf slave, wat do) or we've got some kind of jinchuuriki-esque demon bound to our squire. either way, fun times.
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>>32335239
The idea I remember being thrown around a while back was to set up our own version of inquisitiors. How we're going to do that? No clue.
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>>32335395
I don't have them saved anymore, unfortunately. And I don't remember what thread I did it in.

If I must, though I'll go look later.
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>>32335256
"Please try not to scare my elf friend here to his grave. It's not something I want to hear in the morning."
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>>32335372
Unfortunately I can't. I already start at 8am in my timezone and I've been having difficulty not sleeping in as is.

>>32335421
I forgot about that. I should be able to shoehorn it into the discussions on knightly and ranger orders.

Also, the response so far is largely a comment of interest in the tattoos and mildly scolding the elementals for stripping Finn. If there's no objections I'll write it up.
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>>32335418
>elf slave, wat do

>>32335421

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea necessarily but it would have to be run by trusted and competent leadership and have some very clear purpose so that it doesn't overstep its boundaries
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We should buy a horse
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>>32335470
>kingdom
muh nigga
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>>32335256
>Research projects
1. The arrow equivalent of paintball for training purposes. Enchanted to REDUCE damage so it doesn't accidentally harm the target.
2. Melee weapons of the same weight as the real thing, enchanted to not cause harm as well (stopping enchantments on impact).

Both can be used for wargames to improve troop quality
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>>32335470
horses cannot compete with magitech. And it gives wonderful flavor to the setting.
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>>32335502
there is nothing that paintball swords can do that simple wooden swords can't do cheaper. aspie has already shot down the paintball arrows as well because of the inertia still making them dangerous. give it up.
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>>32335455
>I wouldn't be opposed to the idea necessarily but it would have to be run by trusted and competent leadership and have some very clear purpose so that it doesn't overstep its boundaries

Personally I want to have the beginnings once we get law and order back. Like get some competent leadership now then recruit from orphans and the likes who have no family. That way betrayal would be like betraying a close family member and be unlikely.
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>>32335502
Unfortunately, as I understand it, troops don't gain experience beyond Green unless it's a life or death fight.
Possibly game balance purposes.
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>>32335256
>construction plans
We should expand the magitech factory in vitria. We got the money and its a worthwhile investment
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>>32335542
>there is nothing that paintball swords can do that simple wooden swords can't do cheaper
Nobody said anything about paintball swords
>aspie has already shot down the paintball arrows as well because of the inertia still making them dangerous.
which is why they are enchanted to stop on impact.
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>>32335551
Better green than conscript
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>>32335558
expanding the factory would only give us higher output. we'd still need to put money into it, and I think that what's we've got now is a good cost-outcome ratio.
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>>32335542
>aspie has already shot down
I didn't see aspir say anything of the sort
>give it up.
You are being an asshole. Don't
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>>32335599

Aren't we running a massive surplus right now? Having higher capacity could be useful
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>>32335256
So we going or...?
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>>32335558
Right now we honestly need to make more factories in more places. Having one place making 2 things vs 3 places making things.
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>>32335630
I like running a massive surplus. It gives us much more room to maneuver with the coming fights. I was thinking that a better use of the surplus would be to either start creating that Marnn fortress or build a magitech for something we haven't covered yet. that's my thoughts, anyway.
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>>32335599
>expanding the factory would only give us higher output.
Which is what I desire
>we'd still need to put money into it
Yes, I know, so?
>and I think that what's we've got now is a good cost-outcome ratio.
You are either assuming ever larger scale production will reduce the cost-outcome OR stating that its not worth investing more money in improving the cost-outcome ratio.
Regardless of which it is, cost-outcome ratio is irrelevant here. we have a large surplus of income and nothing to spend it on. Allocating it to producing more magic weapon is a wonderful way to spend it
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"Salamander, Gnome, please refrain from stripping my squire in the future,” you say, crossing your arms over your chest. “Especially outside my bedroom – it’s not what I want to wake up to. And Finn, those are some… very interesting tattoos. I get the feeling we should talk about those a bit more.”

There’s a trio of exclamations from the girls around you.

“Squire!” Gnome says. “You’ve taken on an elf as a squire?”

“Do you really need a squire?” Sarah asks.

“Eh? Really? You took a boy as a squire?” Sala says, a finger dangling playfully from her lips. “I didn’t know that was your interest, Tallie.”

With the girls distracted, Finn makes a dive for his tunic and hurriedly dresses himself, his face bright red as he pointedly refuses to look in your direction. You take the moment to calm the girls, and openly ignore Sala’s jibe. Once dressed, Finn looks over to you and begins to speak, before his eyes widen and he looks away, face even redder than before.

“Um, my lord, I’m sorry for disturbing your sleep,” Finn says, likely embarrassed by seeing Sarah in her sheer nightwear. At least, you hope it’s from seeing Sarah.

“Call me Talon and don’t apologise for the actions of silly familiars who should know better,” you say offhandedly as you shoo the others to get some breakfast.

“I was making a very important observation, just as Mal would do,” Sala says, puffing her chest out.

“Mal doesn’t strip young girls for spurious reasons,” you say as you step back inside with Sarah to get dressed.

Stepping back outside, you find the three of them still waiting. Finn is clearly waiting for you, but the other two are clearly just lingering. If you’re not imagining things, Gnome is a little upset over Sarah and Sala is just being Sala. As you walk to breakfast you…

>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
>2. Talk to Sala about the tattoos
>3. Talk to Gnome about Sarah
>4. Talk to Sarah about <write-in>
>>
I think we should try to spend some time with Lynn we haven`t done anything with her in a while
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>>32335684
Speaking of something we haven't covered. I've thought about making a earth manipulating device. That way we can give it to trained engineers and build walls and shit when our armies camp out.
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>>32335670
>Right now we honestly need to make more factories in more places. Having one place making 2 things vs 3 places making things.
We can't build factories in other places without finding more machinists.

With current budget we can afford both, but our 1 and only machinist is in vitria. So I suggest we BOTH enlarge the factory he is managing AND look to recruit more machinists
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>>32335696
talk to finn about the tats. I think talking to gnome should also happen, that looks like something we shouldn't let fester.
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>>32335696
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
cue the waterworks
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>>32335696
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
>3. Talk to Gnome about Sarah
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>>32335696
>At least, you hope it’s from seeing Sarah.

itshabbening

>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos

>Speaking of something we haven't covered. I've thought about making a earth manipulating device. That way we can give it to trained engineers and build walls and shit when our armies camp out.

I'd be fine with that so long as we don't use it for tunnels.
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>>32335696
>At least, you hope it’s from seeing Sarah.

Oh hahaha.

>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos

might as well get the source.
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>>32335696
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
>4. Talk to Sarah about her loose hole
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>>32335558
You've actually got an almost completely empty foundry in Darlesia now. You'll need to spend time renovating it, but it would give you more factory space for the cost and time than expanding the Vitrian foundry. There'll be plenty of details of your current set-up and the costs of expansion shortly. The foundries are big money sinks (just like modern manufacturing!).
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>>32335711
Is it bad that I got really excited when I read that as 'earthquake manipulating device'? 'cause that's also something that seriously needs to be made. Finger of God up in this bitch.
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>>32335764

Well then, that sounds like something worth spending money on
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>>32335764
I was under the impression that machinists are rare and that our only one is in vitria.
Wouldn't the vitrian factory suffer if we relocate him to darlesia to rebuild the factory there?

Also, what is the status of the factory in Taour?

Ah, also I noticed that we have been using the word factory for both the building, and the ... device that takes in components and assembles them. Can we clarify the terminology a bit?
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>>32335696
>3. Talk to Gnome about Sarah
>1. Talk to Finn about the tattoos
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>>32335802
>Wouldn't the vitrian factory suffer if we relocate him to darlesia to rebuild the factory there?
specifically the part where he is current performing research in vitria
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>>32335769
We could go for that I suppose. I was thinking more being able to build walls and shit though. Mainly because I noticed we like to wall up and use traps. But it takes time from Gnome and our mages to do that. So if we could have some normal guys trained on how to build walls with a device then we could devote all of Gnomes and our mages we have time to traps. Which would mean we would have more.
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>>32335802
>Wouldn't the vitrian factory suffer if we relocate him to darlesia to rebuild the factory there?
The machinist is largely used for constructing new components, testing and major maintenance. It's like how you might need a civil engineer to design a building and maintenance plan but not to actually do the maintenance. Of coruse, any time he's doing construction he can't do research but that's true even in Vitria.

>Ah, also I noticed that we have been using the word factory for both the building, and the ... device that takes in components and assembles them. Can we clarify the terminology a bit?
I discreetly swapped to using foundry for the building and factory for the fabrication devices.
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>>32335819

Remind me, what research was he doing again? Was it mass producing arcane archer equipment?
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>>32335696
>3
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>>32335802
Pretty sure it is mostly on auto.
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>>32335839
incremental improvements to the AA equipment quality
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>>32335858

Oh, while that's important, I can definitely see reconstruction of the factory taking precedent then
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>>32335835
Alright then.

Well, renovating the foundries in darlesia and taour should be a priority. As well as actually copying the blueprints from the captured factories from both and storing it in capital so that sabotage would not result in loss of knowledge.

What is the status of the taour factory?

Also, have we looked for any other machinists?
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>>32335833
I realize the wall-building machine is much more useful for the long term plans and tactics, but come on. we could have a magical earthquake machine. We point it at the enemy's camp and watch as all their supplies gets destroyed by the localized destruction.
>>32335835
So, we could easily have the guy just cycle between each foundry over the course of months, then, to maintain each one. It sounds like a plan.
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>>32335901
I don't think its that easy to make earthquakes. Also, it might be possible for enemy mages to shield against.
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>>32335901
>I realize the wall-building machine is much more useful for the long term plans and tactics.

I honestly mainly got the idea from the old Roman methods of quick wall building. Nothing says "Fuck you!" Like building a wall around a castle so people have to siege you to stop your siege of their castle.

> but come on. we could have a magical earthquake machine. We point it at the enemy's camp and watch as all their supplies gets destroyed by the localized destruction.

I feel like doctor doom reading this and enjoying this picture.
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>1.

You walk alongside Finn and decide to get straight to the heart of the matter.

“So, Finn, why do you have so many tattoos?” you ask.

Finn gets a little nervous at the question. “They’re something that all of my people have. We’re given them over time as we get older. I think I have more than most elves my age but I don’t know why…”

You frown at that. “You don’t know why you need to have so many tattoos? Is it just a symbolic thing?”

Finn shakes his head, clearly troubled. “I think they’re important but the sages are always refusing to answer my questions. I think they’re maybe about extending life.”

You’re about to ask a little more when the breakfast room comes into sight. Mal and Vad greet you, Mal’s eyes flicking over your new squire.

“So you really did take on a cute little elf boy as your squire?” Mal asks, grinning slightly.

“You should see him in a fight – certainly takes you by surprise,” you say, not taking the bait. “Pretty good with combat magic, even if that’s all he can do.”

“That’s because he’s Daerfir, Talon. They’re all about combat,” Sala says.

Mal starts when he hears that Finn is a Daerfir, though you don’t recognise the word. “Daerfir? Really? Huh, I’ve read a lot about your kind… Tarfinn, I think it was? I’m surprised to meet one.”

Everybody steps into the room itself, and you find that Tsucchi, Lynn and Undine have already started on breakfast. Taking a seat, you gesture to Mal to speak up a bit about the Daerfir. Finn looks a little interested himself.

>continued
>next update will be a little slower. Sorry about that. I try not to do this but infodumps are a bit annoying to write.
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When we fought taour they fired a balista bolt that was enchanted to pierce right through the shields used by our mages.
I want that bolt recovered, analyzed, and duplicated.

Both in full size as a balista bolt. And as a miniature (and obviously weaker) version for our AA to snipe enemy mages
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>>32335901
>>32335900

We desperately need more mages in general.

It's time for headhunters. We are an up and coming company, perfect fit for enterprising and ambitious mages looking to make their place in the world.

We got the gold, we got the opportunity, we have to advertise it
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What do people think of letting the dorfs resettle Marn? Depending on how much support they need to clear out the monsters and resettle it could vary from a trading partner all the way to just another archduchy.
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>>32335922
oh, clearly it's not easy to make an earthquake machine, otherwise we'd already be completely wrecked. but think of the possibilities if we could create machines that control localized natural disasters. Tornado in a bottle. Flood in a can. a music box that causes an earthquake as long as it's played. It's totally out of our range right now, but end-game, against the Lords, it would be SO COOL.
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>>32335948
+1
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>>32335956
actually, that is a good idea.
spending some of our budget on luring mages to work for the military is a good idea.

Also, IIRC I asked last thread how we go about training combat mages (which differ from tower mages) and aspir said he would go into it in a future update.
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>>32335957
oh, hey. That fortress idea. Dwarf Embassy. We let them excavate the mountains for us, and we get them sweetheart trading deals.
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>>32335956

There's huge upheaval in RSK and I'm sure not all of their mages are happy, we could focus recruitment there as well.
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>>32335957
>Let dwarves hang out at that mountain
Maybe. It's awfully close to home, but the trade routes would be nice.
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>>32335956
Honestly right now I would rather get law and order. Half of Taour is 1 and 1 on that which is a slight problem.
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>>32335956
Agreed.

I'm of the opinion we should make the mages tower extension or next building project for that exact reason.
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>>32335941
Taking a plate, helpfully piled with food by Lynn, Mal frowns as he begins to talk. “Every enchanter finds themselves wondering at some point whether they can enchant people. Whether they can imbue magic into a person to make them stronger or faster rather than merely doing it to the item – like empowerment but cast by a different mage. That enchanter will then learn about the Daerfir.

“The elves supposedly have several subspecies, including the Aefir who are generally separate from the other elves. Each subspecies effectively has a caste – the Daerfir are the soldier caste. They’re born with a large amount of latent magic inside their bodies that they cannot use for spells, unlike other elves. The texts make it seem like the Daerfir are looked down upon as a result of this. The Daerfir are covered with tattoos to draw out their magic, in a way similar to enchantment but with the magic already present in their bodies. These tattoos enable them to regenerate wounds, be fast as a cheetah, strong as an ox – the works.”

Mal gives a level gaze at Finn, who still look very interested to find out more about his own race. Then Mal looks at you and you have a feeling what he’s about to say may not be all that positive for Finn. You ask Mal to…

>1. Tell Finn the last part.
>2. Tell you the last part in private.
>3. Custom
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>>32335957
Would need to first get to them. Then we would need to know enough about them to get some to agree to help us out.

>>32336015
That may piss off a certain archmage.

>>32335956
We do need to do this though. Look for more mages.
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>>32336068
>>1. Tell Finn the last part.

Transparency, motherfucker
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>>32336068
>1. Tell Finn the last part.
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>>32336068
1
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>>32336068
>1
He's gotta learn to be a man.
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>>32335957
>What do people think of letting the dorfs resettle Marn?
The dorfs escaped marnn due to horrible monsters.
We probably have to clean out the mountains first before they can resettle.
It is possible they are long gone and the dorfs just don't CARE to resettle since they already have other new cities elsewhere and have for a long time.
Its not like we are denying dorfs access to our nation

... but if it is horrible monsters that are still there. Talon slaying them and inviting the dorfs back would be a nice gesture
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>>32336074

Do you mean the Archmage of Magi League? I don't think she'd have a problem with us indirectly weakening their rivals.

Or do you mean the Archmage rebelling against RSK? It's not like they can do anything to us right now
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>>32336068
>1. Tell Finn the last part.
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>>32336042
>Honestly right now I would rather get law and order.
that is a good point. We should be getting personally involved. Honestly before doing anything else we need to solidify our control over existing territories
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>>32336102
Actually, the dwarves in Marnn were wiped out by Kushan a thousand years ago. The monsters came after that.
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>>32336121
>>32336121

Couldn't we do both? I think both "MORE MAGES" and" LAW AND ORDER" are pretty important priorities
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>>32336068
>1. tell Finn the last part.

We're being open and honest about our new friend. We should encourage Mal to be careful in his words, though, so as not to give our new squire a complex.
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>>32336128
Is it possible to 'purge all monsters' in that place?

Or rather, is it 'realistic'? Without massive loss of life, time and equipment?

If so, then it may be better off as a landmark.
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>>32336128
oh, the dwarves might actually like us a whole lot if we gave them back Marnn then. Everybody wins!
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>>32336163
>Is it possible to 'purge all monsters' in that place?
>Or rather, is it 'realistic'?
Actually, go back to possible.
Don't monsters spontaneously form around places of power? Purging them would just mean new ones will form
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>>32336105
Ah, Read that differently right there due to the rebelling in the Magi league. Yeah if it was the RSK it would work better. Though it shifts things around to possibility making the king there angry.
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>>32336179
He wiped them out not drove them out.
The dwarves that currently exist are not descendants of those who lived there before. But of those who weren't there.
Not sure if they will actually be interested
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>>32336185
Both are good questions, I think.

We may need to lock down the PoP and see if we can't stop monsters from forming.

But this is like, a really really side project type thing. Hell, it may not even be possible.
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>>32336185
well, when the dwarves were in Marnn, they clearly had some kind of system to cleanse the PoP of monster spawn. IT was only after Kushann killed them all that whatever system they had fell apart. I think we should get in touch with the stout ones and ask them about that.
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>>32336214
>We may need to lock down the PoP and see if we can't stop monsters from forming.
IIRC PoP monsters can't leave the PoP.
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>>32336179
>1000 years ago.

About as much as if you gave a modern day Mongolian a mountain in china.
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>1.

You gesture to Mal to finish. He sighs, but does so.

“Elves aren’t usually a long-lived race. That’s the dwarves – they just keep on trucking until something kills them,” Mal explains, being obviously roundabout. “Elves use regenerative magic on themselves to keep themselves alive for centuries. This is why the Aefir losing their magic is such a problem as it means they need to rely on other elven races to prolong their lifespans. The Daerfir are the exception as their innate magic means they age slowly and live effectively forever.

“By placing the tattoos upon them, starting at childhood, the Daerfir age at the same rate as humans and other elves but as a consequence they also only live for about two centuries. Eventually, the unnatural draw on the magic of their bodies causes them to die even as they still appear to be in the prime of their life. Strokes, massive organ failure, seizures… There’s a very good reason why every enchanter reads about the Daerfir when they want to learn about enchanting people and then never looks into the topic again.”

The room is silent at that, and you keep a close eye on Finn. He looks upset about the news but…

“So, that means I still one hundred and eighty years to reverse it, right?” he asks, looking at Mal with a trace of steel in his eyes.

“Well… if you can reverse it, yes,” Mal asks, surprised.

Finn nods several times, as though he’s trying to reassure himself. The girls in the room give you a few looks and you realise this is a time when you should speak up for your squire.

>How do you respond to the revelation?

Next post will be the last post of this scene before management stuff starts
>>
>>32336235
Heh. I got a similar feeling.
Actually, about as much as if you give a modern day vietnamese a mountain in china because that mountain used to belong to mongolians and they are all chinks to you.

I mean, the elves have a dozen races and elf on elf racism. Dwarves probably do too
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>>32336128
He sounds like a bit of a dick. I'm going to call him wizard hitler from now on.
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>>32336235
do dwarves live long lives in this setting? because if they're as long-lived in this setting as they are in others, it might be only a few generations for them. the memory might still be fresh if they are as long as the Elves.
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>>32336233
This reminds me we really need to get the last sister too. Since the region she is in has another POP and her own POP. Which would let us bind her.
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>>32336261
"I knew there was a reason I liked you, Finn. Determination. Fire. Aspiration. Good qualities you have there. Let me know if there's something I can help you with in your studies while you're learning under me."

I like this guy. He's cool.
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>>32336261
"Well. This certainly puts a damper on things. I don't doubt we'll have collected the greatest mages in the land by the time I'm through. We'll have this fixed in no time."
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>>32336261
"We have 180 years to see what we can do."
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>>32336266
It's funny, because he basically IS Wizard Hitler.
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>>32336266
>Kushan
>A dick

Considering when we where talking about doing something with an evil mage the first thing Aspirational thought was "Hmm, Kushan would work nice here. I would say yes he was a dick.
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>>32336287
I would rather not use the other pop in the same territory for that purpose, we are short on them already and by visiting HER pop we can get her just fine without using the second pop.
Also I am seriously doubting we can use that pop for her, since it is attached to a different source than the one she is connected to.

Actually, a clarification on pop visit acquisitions would be welcome.
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>>32336262
Yes and no. See, their generations are longer for one thing, but more importantly the dwarves are currently a single nation surrounded by two warring superpowers, and my reading of the situation is that they haven't exapanded at all for a long time. Thus, the opportunity to set up a second kingdom, as well as funnel those unhappy with the current order might be considered worthwile.
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>>32336261

180 years is a very long time, particularly when you are 20 years old. It won't be a problem etc etc etc
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>>32336383
That's what I mean there. Use her POP to bind her. Then use the other one for Undine. Lets us get two things down in one territory.
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>>32336323
+1
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>Supportive

"You just proved right there why I made you my squire, Tarfinn. Determination. Fire. Aspiration. All good qualities you have in spades,” you say, placing a supportive hand on Finn’s shoulder as you speak. “If there’s anything I can help you with in you studies while you are my squire, just let me know. One hundred and eighty years is a long time to solve this, so I doubt you’ll have any problems.”

Finn gives you a bright smile in return. “Thank you, Lord Talon. I’ll be sure to reverse it and still be able to assist you as ably as possible as your squire.”

“Just call me Talon,” you growl slightly.

Finn gives you a dubious look at the idea but nods anyway. You suspect the battle to get him not to act so subservient to you will be a long one. The breakfast proceeds for a short while, before all of you begin to shift over to the war room to discuss plans for the empire. As you rise, you notice the two foxes. Although they’re not strictly loyal to you, they might be able to help you and you may even be able to establish Vad’s loyalty to you over the fox alliance. On the other hand, you’re unsure of the degree to which you want them involved in your empire’s management.

>1. Invite both of them to the war room.
>2. Invite Vad to the war room.
>3. Invite Tsucchi to the war room.
>4. Invite neither to the war room.
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>>32336403
oh, I misunderstood than.

So, a few questions
1. Most mage familiars don't have a pop involved. as I understand it, visiting her pop to bind her as familiar is just a method of acquisition that is more reliable than summoning (that can easily fail if you are not powerful enough).
2. What is talon's elemental affinity? It was mentioned earlier that mal's is fire and sarah's air.
3. Is having her as second familiar for talon, sarah's familiar, or someone else's familiar what we desire?
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>>32336467
>1.
A mage could, if they knew how, bind a PoP and the familiar with it.

>2.
Talon doesn't have elemental affinities as he's not a sorcerer.
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>>32336465
>>1. Invite both of them to the war room.

For the diplomacy and VAMPIRE RESEARCH talks, excuse them for boring domestic talk. They wouldn't be useful there anyway
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>>32336465
1
I don't see them as ever being more loyal to us than their clan, since its literally their family.
But I don't see a problem with including them in the current discussions as its nothing we need to keep secret.
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>>32336493
I like this. Invite both for the relevant bits, then excuse then for empire managing.
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>>32336523
they might actually have useful info for empire management.
Also, anything we actually decide for empire management is going to be public knowledge. Only things that we discuss but decide AGAINST are going to be a "secret" (and by that I mean not widely known)
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>>32336465
>1. Invite both of them to the war room.
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>>32336465
>1
We still need to chat with Tsucchi bout fate points...but later, since we have war stuff to plan.

For now, try and solidify them as OUR allies, then.
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>>32336559
oh yea, good point. We desperately need her astral knowledge. She doesn't really need the management info but if we treat her with cold speciousness than she is less likely to help
PS. already voted, don't double count
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>>32336465
1

They are part of empire now. They deserve equal representation in its doings.
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>>32336488
>A mage could, if they knew how, bind a PoP and the familiar with it.
Can you clarify how such a bond would work? Is the pop bound exclusively to the mage (providing only the mage with power) and the familiar bound exclusively to the mage (getting power only from the mage, which may be power the mage got from the pop)?
Or is the pop bound to the bond between mage and familiar and providing the familiar with power and not the mage?

Can talon get sylph as a second familiar? what would be the consequences of that? If not talon, who is the best candidate for being sylphs master? sarah?
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>>32336641
>Sarah

Would barely be able to blow wind in someones face.
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>>32336634
Tsucchi is an ambassador and NOT under our command in any way.
Vad is an enforcer (citizen of our empire who volunteers to militarily support us on behalf of his people)

>>32336488
>>32336641
Aspir, can you also clarify failed summoning? Mal mentioned sala "accepting being his partner". Does that mean that familiars basically get a very vague sense of who is summoning them and decide whether to refuse or accept the summon? I take it that showing up in person just lets you make a more convincing argument for them becoming a familiar, but they can still choose to reject you? In such a case we should probably bring with several candidates for master when we visit sylph. I guess technically we could communicate with her remotely (sending spell?) and try to convince her to answer a specific summon or to refuse summoning from enemies. But I get a feeling that asking her to just stay bored and alone in her cave for a long time will be unpaletable
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>>32336727
sarah is decently strong. Not talon or mal level, but still decently strong.

>>32336488
How does having a familiar affect the rate of growth of a mage? Do their power grow faster, slower, or the same rate from having to support a familiar?
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>>32336773
Sarah's a Journeyman mage. There's no way that she'll be able to a powerful familiar, much less a pure elemental. she could easily grow into that power, but she's simply too young.
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>>32336773
Yeah, from what I understand mages tend to recquire some time to get stronger however. That is, they'll gradually increase their strength over time, but sustained combat will not accelerate their development as much as it does with others.
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>1.

You invite both foxes to the war room. Including them in the discussions won’t reveal anything too troubling and may help win their trust. Plus, they might have something to offer to you.

Stepping into the war room, you’re joined by Marcus, who is reviewing some financial documents. A sending device is set up on the currently inactive magitech table to contact Magister Farrell when the foundry discussions come up. Otherwise, the rest of your cabinet are still too busy to join you but you have the reports necessary for the meeting.

RANGER, KNIGHTLY and INQUISITORIAL ORDERS

“So Vad mentioned you found some candidates for your ranger order, Talon,” Mal says as everybody settles in.

After briefly explaining to the others what you plan for the ranger order, you respond directly to Mal, “There’s only ten of them, but there’s enough talent there to be able to train others and justify the order itself. I spoke to Lt General Moss last night as well and he’s supportive – having the order will also make it more possible to reward the arcane archer elite with an equivalent to knighthood.”

“You’ll unsettle the knights with that idea, Talon,” Gnome says.

Marcus nods, shuffling his papers. “You already have problems with the nobility, Imperator, is it wise to put the knights offside as well?”

“Couldn’t we just pacify them?” Undine says, and you give her a surprised look at her harshness. “Not like that, Talon. I mean that you could just set-up a royal knightly order, or whatever you might call it as an Imperator. The possibility of being able to serve as a Master in the knightly order at the heart of the empire should be able to distract them enough.”

>continued
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>>32336826
>Sarah's a Journeyman mage
1. which is quite an accomplishment for her age.
2. "barely blow wind in someone's face" would correspond to being the familiar of a literal child with no training at all. Not being the familiar of a journeyman
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>>32336895
“Devious,” Mal says, with a chuckle. “Give Toren and Lucas Master positions, along with the grandmasters of any powerful orders formed later, and let the rest compete on merit. You could also use that to reward your best mage-knights and formalise your personal guard.”

You nod, thinking. The problem would be choosing a grandmaster – somebody with experience like Parras would be best but raw talent is also important. Loyalty is also an issue. Lynn fulfils the last two criteria, though you don’t know how well she would be as a grandmaster and her youth might be off-putting to many knights – though her ability to best any of them in combat might counter that to an extent.

You move on to another topic, “I was also thinking about forming a separate order focused on maintaining law and order. A specialised intelligence unit that could work against any insurrection or spies in our territory.”

“Feeling paranoid already?” Mal says with a slight grin. The others look a tad more unsettled.

“The nobles aren’t causing so much trouble as to require a dedicated force to quell them,” Sarah says, troubled.

“It’s not about the nobles in particular,” you say. “It would cover mages, enemy spies as well as general problems in the populace.”

“Depending on how it is set-up it could work very well or might have a negative impact on public order should they discover them,” Marcus says, rubbing his chin.

You shrug. The idea is still in a formative period. Organisation will be the most important part.

>Discussion time

I’ll call some votes in a little bit depending on the things you talk about.
>>
Oh hey, how is our sending device thing coming along? We wanted to get it done as magitech. but what if instead of mass producing them we just get one custom made by hand for talon and his high command? There have been several instances in battle where we were screwed due to lack of communication and it is too costly (in lives) to wait on this issue. I suggest we immediately commission a few hand made sending devices so we have SOMETHING until either we get a mass produced version or talon learns to use sending spells himself
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>>32336923
>Undine's idea to please the Knights
Love it. We have to do whatever we can to not negatively impact public order anymore. We're barely holding onto our lands as it is.

>New intelligence department upsetting people
Shit, really? Do they not want their empire to keep spies out of their lands?

Whatever...we'll need to set it up so it doesn't upset anyone, then. And keep it extremely secret.
...
Inviting the foxes may not have been a good idea.
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>>32336923
Mentioning the trade-off between the authority of the crown given to them and the checks-and-balances we discussed (the magisters, the inquisitors, the lack of notoriety, etc) might be a good way to sell the inquisition. I still like the idea that the Inquisition is more Adventurers for the Crown, but intelligence is also good.
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>>32336923
I say we go ahead with th ranger order and create an royal knight order with Lynn as for the inquisition I don`t know it could backfire
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>>32336742
You can't bind a familiar if they're unwilling. if you're in front of them you can discuss with them about the matter instead of just trying to summon them - which is important as you only get one shot at binding a familiar.

>>32336641
The former. Also, Talon can't bind Sylph himself as he has no way of binding her as she's not connected to his Source.

Best candidate would be a magister - affinities don't really matter too much if you do it in person and the PoP would reduce the strain a fair bit (Mal could take on a second familiar for instance).

>>32337002
The proposal so far has mostly been secret police from what I've gathered. It's been rather vague, so this is a prompt for people to try to flesh out exactly what they're interested in.

>Inviting the foxes may not have been a good idea.
Tsucchi can't actually tell anybody else about these things without breaking covenant with you. As for Vad, his trustworthiness is up to you.

>>32337010
What would 'Adventurers for the Crown' look like and what would their duties be?
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>>32336896
In the original thread we asked if Sarah could summon Sylph and got pretty much "on a 20 and she would be very very weak."
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>>32336923
>Depending on how it is set-up it could work very well or might have a negative impact on public order should they discover them
The way I am reading this is. Are we setting up a gestapo thought police that kidnaps people from their homes and tortures them.
Or are we setting up a network of informants with checks, balances, limited power, human rights, etc.
I am for the latter. The idea isn't to quell but to find wrongdoing. The primary purpose proposed earlier was to have auditors who basically go around and ensure people aren't abusing their political position. Eg, find and catch robber barons. Find corruption, etc.
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>>32336923

Undine's idea is good, for the position of grandmaster, we can keep that position vacant for sometime. It would give incentive to ambitious candidates to great deeds.

While Lynn has the power, she doesn't have the maturity so this buys some time for her candidacy as well.

Inquisition needs further planning to get anwhere, we need some capable people for this and I don't think we have them right now.
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>>32336923

Build a general spy network and intelligence agency as our priority instead of an inquisition.

It will give us the base infrastructure while accommodating the main function we need filling.

It can be 'upgraded' into an inquisition should a threat appear that warrants it. It keeps people onside, and its main use will be to monitor the activity's of foreign agents who will undoubtedly be on their way here as we speak.

Half of international politics is knowing what everyone else is going to do.
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>>32337083

Yeah, auditors sound much better than inquisitors.

Auditors who are given authority to investigate and brings things up the letter so that they can't abuse their discretion.
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>>32337116

I would divide that idea into two:

(1) Have a general spy network focused on foreign threats

(2) Have an internal, domestic system of auditors and investigators for domestic corruption, malfeasance and other injustices.

The two may cooperate but merging the two gives them far too much power and potential for overreach.
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>>32337083
I second this notion that it should be the second one.

I'm not really good with the politics of it, but basically these guys are less 'secret police' and more...well regular police, where they seek out wrong doing, or abusive politicians or nobles, and bring them to justice. No kidnapping, or shady business, their job is to PREVENT that, not engage in it.
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>>32337068
Roaming agents with a goodly amount of 'authority of the crown' going about and solving problems. Essentially, they're the good public face for the inquisition's intelligence. the real meat of spy v spy would be focused outwards. We can sell the adventurers as 'you have a problem your local people can't solve, you call on these guys'. kind of a royal strike force. I'm not sure I'm selling it right. They'd probably all be Magisters (IE, the people with actual authority to arrest people, rather than the Inquisitors who only do the investigating or the beaurocrats who track for corruption). Does this help any, or do you need something better?
>>
What about Pharos for the Grandmaster position?

Failing that, what about a tourney to decide the initial GM and we make it a time based position. Like 4 or 5 years, then they hand off the reins to the next add elected by the Order itself.
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>>32337159
Second, we already have a spy network leader, might as well give her money.
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>>32337199
I would think that instead of an election, it'd be a tourney every 5 years, and then people can say 'yea' or 'nay' to whoever wins. That'd work for a knightly order.
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>>32336923
If we do make the inquisition it would have to be loyal to us and only us. Because that is why Talon wants to make them. Just to have an executive arm that can hide as merchants and whatever else to look into matters of the state.

As for an imperial knight order. That could work pretty well if we could make it the best of the best kind of deal. Problem there is who to be in charge. Though I suppose it is theoretically possible we could break them down into three or so positions that are in theory co-equal and each control their own section of the greater order.
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>>32337068
>The proposal so far has mostly been secret police from what I've gathered. It's been rather vague,
I remember there being a lot of back and forth with a lot of different suggestions about how to implement it.
And in fact the original proposition was for a NON secret police. Someone later suggested some secret.

The 3 suggested branches were
1. Auditors: Those people openly travel the nation looking for corruption. They audit the books of those of high rank (magistrates, mayors, etc) and inform talon of any found corruption. They don't have the power to arrest or indict anyone. Only collect information
2. Internal spies: Those people travel the nation but don't reveal their identity. Also send reports

Based on the above 2, suspected individuals will get higher degree of scrutiny from the capital. Either talon himself or his direct subordinates.

3. Informants. People with everyday lives and minimal training who provide info to handlers for extra income.
>>
The Royal Order would be set up to all those with merit from the Knightly and Ranger Orders join yes? So it would be a huge collection of the best of the best.
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>>32337188

My objection to this is that it does nothing to solve the overreach and abuse of power problem.

Having someone with the authority to both investigate and arrest individuals is problematic for many reasons, that responsibility needs to be divided.

No one is inherently trustworthy, particularly a group of people, you need to have eyes watching eyes.
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>inquisitors v auditors
So it looks like you guys want more of an aboveboard police force (which I personally envisage as being like Vimes' Watch from Discworld) than a secret police. If you keep it separate from Neir's spy network there'll be somebody else to head it up so you could either choose somebody internally (pose a suggestion) or I'll create a few characters who could fit the role to differing degrees.

>>32337091
>for the position of grandmaster, we can keep that position vacant for sometime
You would need somebody to act as the head of the order at least temporarily, even if it's yourself (though that wouldn't be the greatest idea to do for more than a short time given the point of the order).

>>32337199
>What about Pharos for the Grandmaster position?
You mean Phrace?

Also, the tourney would go to Lynn unless you convinced her not to participate. Could be a good way to show everybody how much ass she can kick, though.

>>32337251
You'd actually have royal knightly and ranger orders, in effect, unless you want to have three orders with some royal supraorder.
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>>32337185
>but basically these guys are less 'secret police' and more...well regular police
the SPECIFICS that have been suggested for the "secret police" part is actually regular police doing out of uniform operations. Like, sting operations
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>>32337188
Personally I would rather go for something like "magistrates who investigate and is the public face" Meanwhile in the background we have full on spies who pretend to be civilians, Noble maids, whatever else and feed information. To the organization. Then we have the specialist like assassins/warriors who are meant to be sent out when convert muscle is needed.
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>>32337293
thats what secret police are anon.
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>>32337282
Backing the police force.
having them separate from the spy and informant network will be very beneficial, having them as the main protectors of the people from open noble abuse will also be useful.

Frankly we might need a advanced court system, but thats for future investment into.
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>>32337247

I like this idea, I would add an executive layer over the auditors and internal spies.

They'd be the ones who merge the reports and make decisions to apprehend indivduals. The larger judging process could go to a committee after that and Talon and Co. could be final arbiters and court of appeals.

Basically, adding an initial decision maker before Talon to save him a lot of work
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>>32337282

>Lynn beating ass in a tourney among all of our best

I kind of want that.

>Supraorder vs. Multiple

I'm kind of in the former camp but fine with either
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>>32337282

Backing Sam Vime's City Watch idea with a large budget for undercover investigations

Also backing character creation since no one we know seems to be a good fit for the job
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>>32337365

That could lead to suspicion that Lynn's a dragon as well, which is a risk.

I kinda want to see that as well, but would Lynn make a good grandmaster? Grandmasters probably do more management than kicking ass
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>>32337247
Yeah. My main thought was like this. Though I do want the very top to be loyal to Talon and only Talon and we will need something combat capable in this in case we need to take someone out whenever is needed. But that should be at the very top and only doable by Talon giving the executive order.
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>>32337282
>Also, the tourney would go to Lynn unless you convinced her not to participate. Could be a good way to show everybody how much ass she can kick, though.
If we appoint lynn, than having her WIN that position via a tourney would be better than just appointing her
If we just appoint her then it would undermine the whole thing "oh that, talon appointed as headmaster this 19 year old slip of a girl who he is shagging" doesn't really scream elite.
But "she kicked the asses of every other head of knight organization" does.

However, I am somewhat confused as to what the specifics we are currently talking about are
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>>32337393
unnaturally strong does not = dragon on the off.
There are many kinds she could be mistaken for, so let them mistake her. But no bugger is going to think dragon.
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>>32337282
>You'd actually have royal knightly and ranger orders
Do we have to call it a "ranger order"?
It seems like a better idea to call them knightly order and just treat them as another order.
Also, I think that what we should do is provide them with financing towards building the order. But not actually officially publicly name it as one until it actually IS. that is, when we have some 50+ members. Or... recognize it as "potential" new order which has to meet certain predefined criteria before becoming a full real order.
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>>32337269
>No one is inherently trustworthy, particularly a group of people, you need to have eyes watching eyes.

Yeah. Honestly it's kind of the reason I want to go for the poor and the orphans and the likes for this. Hard to beat "We will raise you. Then we will give you extra income while training you to be a merchant. All you have to do is send back reports to us."
>>
>>32337393

Would it though? She's one of a kind as confirmed by QM. Not many will think that right off the bat.
>>
>>32337393
>>32337456
Isn't lynn like, the only known half dragon half human? With her father having to first invent a way to make the two compatible? she is basically his proof of concept prototype for a way to rebuild his race via half human hybrids. (if I understand correctly)
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>>32337282
oh, so the knightly orders fill that 'adventurer' niche? The way I was reading them, they functioned as mercenaries for their home cities, like the Golden Bears for Vitria. Guess I didn't understand things
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>>32337461

I mean it's all the same really. We could actually circumvent a smaller issue by not formally calling them by a different name.
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>>32337508
>>32337456
>>32337481

Good point, but my bigger concern is whether Lynn would make a good grandmaster.

How much management is involved in grandmastering a knight order? How much kicking ass?

There's been no indication that Lynn's particularly proficient at the former
>>
>>32337282
I love sam vimes and the watch :). Isn't there already such a thing?
What I was imagining was more of an IRS/police internal affairs department. But city watch is important too
Also, new character sounds best
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>>32337461
Yes, yes we do. Because it is differentiated by more than just weaponry, in that its supposed to be full of elite skirmishers.
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>>32337561
>but my bigger concern is whether Lynn would make a good grandmaster.
>How much management is involved in grandmastering a knight order? How much kicking ass?
I agree that those are more important questions. I am honestly NOT getting the grandmaster vibe from her personality. She seems more of a "I want to personally fight strong stuff because its FUN" not a "I want to do boring paperwork and train people and make political decisions".

I also completely lost the train of the discussion and I am not sure how it even came to be that people were talking about her being a grandmaster. what is actually the current plan?
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>>32337393
Grandmasters basically need to be leaders, generals and warriors first, political animals second and administrators a distant third. This is especially so for a royal order whose finances etc would be handled by others.

>>32337573
Vimes does a lot more than just city watch duties in the books. He covers a lot of modern federal police work as well.

GRANDMASTER VOTE

>1. Appoint somebody directly
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>3. Hold a tourney and elect the victor grandmaster
>4. Custom

RANGER ORDER

>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>2. Create an order that is nominally a knightly order but focuses on archery
>3. Have your royal knightly order also accept archers as well as knights. This may put Hartman (the head of the ranger band) offside slightly unless you made him grandmaster.
>4. Custom

AUDITORS

>1. Have your intelligence division (led by Neir) also head your internal affairs unit
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.
>3. Have both your intelligence and internal affairs work under a supraunit that controls both before reporting to you.
>4. Custom

Any other votes I missed?
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>>32337573
>IRS

pls no. pls no. I deal enough with them in real life. I'd take the FBI over the IRS any damn day.
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>>32337616
>GRANDMASTER VOTE
grandmaster of what? I lost track of the discussion.
>>
>>32337561

Then we have her surrounding by the best we got to learn. The two Grandmasters in Vitria are top tier they can teach, and she has us. I think she'll manage, she has to learn somehow
>>
>>32337616
>3
>2
>2
>>
>>32337616
3
1
2
>>
>>32337616
GRANDMASTER VOTE
>3. Hold a tourney and elect the victor grandmaster

RANGER ORDER
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function

AUDITORS
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.
>>
>>32337616
3
1
3
>>
>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>3. Have both your intelligence and internal affairs work under a supraunit that controls both before reporting to you.

We should make the punishments for lying and corruption really high in the Auditors. That way people will tend to ignore bribes because if they get caught they are fucked.
>>
>>32337616
>3
>1
>2
>>
>>32337616
>3
>2
>3?

Last one isn't my forte. But sure
>>
>>32337616
>3
>2
>3
>>
>>32337616
>3
>1
>2
>>
>>32337616
3
1 (if they bitch we'll just ask them why none of the knightly orders extended a single invitation to a AA. Cue awkward shuffling)
3
>>
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>>32337638
You're forming royal ranger and knightly orders. Hartman will be grandmaster of the ranger order (as there's nobody else with the talent) and your voting on the grandmaster of the knightly order.
>>
>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>2. Create an order that is nominally a knightly order but focuses on archery
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.
>>
>>32337719
AAs have only existed for a few months. They probably have no idea what to do about them.
>>
>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>3. Have both your intelligence and internal affairs work under a supraunit that controls both before reporting to you.

I don't know who's scarier the IRS or the Inquisition
>>
>>32337616
>Grandmaster
>1
We need someone that is powerful BUT also a good political and admin. Hopefully, you'll help suggest some worthy of the job.

>Ranger Order
>2
I hope this doesn't upset Knights?

>Auditors
>3
>>
>>32337719

Oh man that's perfect. We're set to bitch slap all bitching.
>>
>>32337616

>3
>2
>2
>>
>>32337616
3
1
2
>>
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So there's a crapton of votes. I'd normally wait longer but this many votes already covers pretty much everybody who normally participates.

Results are:
>3
>1
>3
>>
>>32337756
>I don't know who's scarier the IRS or the Inquisition
http://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/10-medieval-torture-devices10.htm
>>
>>32337756
>I don't know who's scarier the IRS or the Inquisition

How about IRS who is also the inquisition and has fucking Ninjas as paid employes?
>>
>>32337616
3
since it let us get another strong character
1
this has been in the planning for the longest time
2
3 is a bureaucracy, which are bloated and slow and 1 gives too much power to Nier.
>>
A 'superunit' controlling both out internal and external intelligence networks is too dam powerful. There's a reason why these two are always split up in real life.
>>
>>32337845

Yup, but the voters have spoken. We are going to have to keep a very careful eye on this particular unit and its leaders
>>
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>>32337836
>Ninjas
>>
>>32337825
uh, Aspie, 2 won. No supraunit.
>>
>>32337616
>2. Leave the position substantively vacant and fill it nominally yourself
>1. Create a ranger order that is distinctly separate to knightly orders in design and function
>2. Have your internal affairs unit work separately to your intelligence.
>>
>>32337825

I like how we just forced you write a tourney for us. That'll be fun to see. Would Phrace get involved? Might be interesting to see our lesser explored martial characters do something.
>>
>>32337834
I always laugh that people seem to think that the real life inquisition killed much of any people. I think more people die of stairs in a year then they killed in 200 years.
>>
>>32337836
you forgot wizards.
>>
>>32337880
I counted 8 for 2, 7 for 3. I think he might be right. Somebody double-check me.
>>
>>32337897
>I like how we just forced you write a tourney for us
speaking of tourney.... a question is raised about who can compete
is it open to public? or what...
>>
>>32337902

It's their ability to ruin your day without due process that would make them feared, not their capacity for mass murder
>>
>>32337902
>They didn't kill a LOT of people
But they did kill people.
How many people does the IRS torture to death? without due process?
>>
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>>32337880
I didn't count the two votes immediately above that when I made my post. So yeah, 2 won. Small difference overall to me.
>>
>>32337900
They may have been too late
>>
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>>32337834
Sometimes I forget that the middle ages was sometimes the definition of metal and were fucking brutal
>>
>>32337920

We could either go public within our sphere of influence, public to all, or invite only(with a prelim Tourney among our men for them to qualify, which Phrace could win).
>>
>>32337949
People fear our government turning against us, I guess.

I have bets we won't hear much about them once we have things set up.
>>
>>32337948
>How many people does the IRS torture to death? without due process?

They fuck your finances over which indirectly can fuck your home over. inquisition on the other hand maybe killed 1000-2000 people in 400 years. The Gestapo killed more people in the rule of Hitler in 5 years then the Inquisition did in over a hundred.
>>
>>32337998
>People fear our government turning against us, I guess.
There are multiple reasons other than a coup to want some seperation of powers
>>
>>32338037
I personally want to be able to assign blame in particular for when those organizations inevitably fuck up somehow.
>>
>>32338073

Then we blame the organization's leaders, which is how things are always done
>>
>>32337970
The middle ages where metal as all hell. Most people don't realize it but shit talking in the middle ages was asking for it. Because unlike today if you where shit talking back then you where saying they couldn't defend themselves. Meaning you where painting a "Kill me or risk dying" Sign over your head.
>>
>>32338073
assign blame, less chance of missing info, appearances (less scary to populace), the fact that most people are not unaging and thus will have to be replaced at some point, different skillsets of the people in charge resulting in different structured organizations with different capabilities, etc
>>
>>32338036

That doesn't address that anon's argument about due process.

The IRS can audit you or your business. The Inquisition can hold you in custody without any due process, and they certainly weren't bound by the 8th amendment.

They really can't be compared.
>>
>>32338037
>separation of powers

A really useful reason is if you ever need to purge a corrupt organization. You can always just take out the rotten part and then reassign. While leaving the rest of the branches.
>>
>>32338073
We are pretty much creating public knowledge SHIELD. Waiting for HYDRA to infiltrate.
>>
>>32338036
>Inquisition didn't kill that many people
ahem
>Pear of Anguish
>Very rarely fatal
your cunt/anus/throat might be wrecked for life but you were still alive
>>
>>32338165

Another reason for separation of powers is that no one branch has sufficient power to really fuck things up without the other branch noticing and checking their malfeasances.

Checks and balances We Schoolhouse Rock now, bitches
>>
>>32338167
exactly. Compartmentalization will help insulate us from the inevitable shadowruns that Aspie has planned for us.
>>
>>32338151
I wouldn't compare but people really overestimate the power the Inquisition had.
>>
>>32338167
>>32338204
>>32338199
+1 to all of these
>>
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>3 & 1 & 3

“I like your idea, Undine,” you say. “A royal knightly order should work as a suitable distraction for my creating a ranger order. As for the intelligence unit, I think I’ll moderate it to act mostly as an anti-corruption force that operates separately to Neir’s spies. She might be able to help me with the specifics of setting that up.

“As for the grandmaster of the knightly order, I figure to hold a tourney to determine who is most eligible,” you continue, and Sala and Lynn perk up at the news. “The elementals aren’t allowed to join and there will be a preliminary qualification tourney to trim the number of contestants.”

Sala looks a tad annoyed, but Lynn seems almost bouncy. Vad seems interested.

“Can a fox be a knight?” Vad asks.

“Will you join the order when Lynn makes you eat dirt?” you ask bluntly.

“No.”

“Then no, you can’t be a knight, Vad,” you say and the fox clicks his tongue in annoyance.

EMPIRE STRUCTURE

“We still have the issue of the design of the empire itself as it grows,” you say. “Currently Vitria is its own state within the empire so a possibility is to extend it to the other areas.”

“You mean have a series of duchies making of the empire? Won’t that just unnecessarily dilute your power?” Mal asks, sounding dubious. “Vitria’s one thing, given the way it joined and Sarah’s loyalty but why not just appoint some administrators and save the separate state structure for special occasions.”

>continued
>>
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>>32338292
>3
Thought it was 2 now.
>>
>>32338195
Yeah. On the other hand it wasn't that common. Hell the first proclamation that witches don't exist happened in about 1200 some by one of the most powerful bishops. Most kings really didn't want people with a lot of powers in their nation like that so a lot of the time they where fairly limited in most regions.

I'd honestly worry more about a full blown secret police then them.
>>
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>>32338292
Sarah nods, an odd look on her face. “I agree. Vitria earned its place by allying with you early and we can be trusted to act loyally.”

“Why not have noble positions to rule the duchies but have them entirely answerable to yourself? I mean, I’m unsure how that differs to the approach with Vitria?” Tsucchi asks.

“Sarah swore fealty as a vassal to Talon,” Gnome explains. “So although Vitria is nominally an independent state ruled by Talon it is still directly ruled by him through that relationship. If you extend that structure out, Talon, then your ability to control a series of disparate states will be more dependent on the rulers than otherwise. A centralised bureaucracy will curtail nationalism and order slightly but will make it easier for you to maintain control.”

“It will also make you more resistant to corruption,” Marcus says. “The RSK structure ensures a large military and plenty of willing nobles to fight but damages trade. The Seraphs succeeded at being a dominant trade power in spite of its structure, with every noble levying their own taxes despite royal decrees otherwise.”

You wonder if there’s some alternative options. Right now there’s been three proposed – separate states ruled by dukes/archdukes; separate principalities that are administered by dukes/archdukes but you still retain ultimate authority over their lands rather than just them; and a centralised bureaucracy that rules the entire empire save Vitria.

>discussion time
>>
>>32338199
I always love that method of rulership. Separate everyone into components and put yourself on top. Everyone is going to be fighting for power in one department while the other departments will want to increase their own. Meanwhile you just sit back and let them moderate each other.
>>
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>>32338313
>– separate states ruled by dukes/archdukes; separate principalities that are administered by dukes/archdukes but you still retain ultimate authority over their lands rather than just them
Is my vote, ever since i saw how useless bureaucracies are in my country i always try to avoid them in games.
>>
>>32338313
I want to do the administration thing, but I feel like there's a better method staring us in the face that we've just not picked up on yet. Let's talk this out a bit.
>>
>>32338313
>“I agree. Vitria earned its place by allying with you early and we can be trusted to act loyally.”
I think this is the key issue.
Diluting power unnecessarily is pointless.
Vitria earned this position by allying with us early. Others might earn a similar position in the future. But I don't want to just carve up our land for no reason.

Also, the pros and cons are basically:
>carve it up
+military
-trade
-order
-control

Which is not worth it
>>
>>32338313

I would propose a form of federalism here.

We will have a centralized bureacracy for essential state functions: Census, Tariffs, Interstate Commerce (i.e. any trade that happens with other regions of the empire or nations), Taxes, and our Police force.

We'd have local governments that would administer other areas of the state that would be unique to those regions. Their own customs, their own local laws, internal trade etc.

This would be helpful in making sure we have control over essentials while still giving them some sovreignty to be happy
>>
>>32338313
Damn, this is kinda going over my head.

I shall let those who know government stuff handle it.
>>
>>32338404
Is this essentially an argument over federalism vs. Feudalism right now?
>>
>>32338383
We could go super local and just appoint a baron to control each single territory, rather than bunching them up into duchies.

That way, the individual barons would be weaker, and a larger central beaucracy would be needed to organize all of the individual baronies.
>>
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>>32338376
*and because of that
>>32338404
That sounds like the second choice, since it still leaves some power to the remaining rulers, but we still have the final call.
>>
>>32338404

Another advantage it has over just centralized bureacracy is that centralized bureacracy cannot adapt quickly to local conditions by its very nature.

This is problematic if you have a large and diverse empire, which is what we are aiming for.

Ceding local control over local practices is the best way to ensure adaptation while maintaining central control.
>>
>“I agree. Vitria earned its place by allying with you early
If we don't somehow especially reward such early alliance then we do not create any REASON for anyone to join us peacefully.
If sarah is special because of how she joined, then we can bribe other smaller weaker nations with similar status to make them join peacefully.

We can always carve up some land in the future to give to a worthy person
>>
>>32338443

I don't know, I'm just proposing Federalism as an alternative to Centralization and Feudalism right now.

>>32338451

Well, it's not ultimate control so much as we have a bureaucracy over certain key areas that we need to know as a single nation.

We need to control foreign trade and we will set up a department for that, the locals can make up their own law for punishing burning down houses since that doesn't concern an empire.
>>
>>32338404
Yeah, this is what I was thinking; only with the local government unit being a barony.

A smaller class of hereditary aristocrats creates stability and makes the empire easier to control overall.
>>
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>>32338303
It is if you read the text. I just forgot to change the number at the top.

>>32338376
You'll actually be creating more bureacracy that way. Decentralisation almost always results in bureaucratic duplication in practice but the decentralised areas can usually allocate resources more effectively due to being more specialised. In this case, I'm representing this largely as a trade-off between control (less bureacracy makes it easier for you to control things) and more effective function.

>>32338404
That could be either 1 or 2. To compare IRL, 1 as originally proposed is probably closer to the US (where the state governments have a lot of power) whereas 2 is more like Australia (where the state governments do comparatively little beyond planning and delivery).
>>
>>32338443
I don't think that Feudalism would necessary work for a rapidly expanding empire. Feudalism is 'the power flows down' the successively lower power levels pay upward for the privilege of their power. That works well for a static nation, but with our rapid expansion, there will be too much effort to create that structure.
>>
>>32338313
Personally I would go for an imperial law and bureaucracy. Meanwhile there would be lesser bureaucracy in provenance sized pieces of land. That creates localized laws and reports to the Imperial bureaucracy.

Imperial taxes and laws overrule all local ones. While we have our imperial men overlooking the local.

That way when we take over we can rapidly just stick our own men there and look at the local laws. Take what we think is culturally needed or useful then let the imperial laws override everything else.

Power wise we would be the supreme ruler and the guys looking over the laws are just considered emissaries of our will.
>>
>>32338521
The Aussie model is probably better here. We want a local unit to deal with things that don't concern the overall Empire and to avoid annoying EU-like micromanagement; but at the end of the day, I think a strong federal core is what we're after.
>>
>>32338521

Of the three, I'd be leaning closer to 2 (Australia), since we are still a relatively homogeneous and small state right now.

If we get so big and so diverse, then we could move closer to 1.

I would definitely insist that we set up an imperial bureaucracy for interstate commerce, taxes, and federal policing though.
>>
>>32338443
Nah, the two ideas are a monolithic imperial bureaucracy or some from of federalism, the closest example of which I can think of offhand is the Safehold system. I'm in favor of a limited federalism
>>
>>32338521
1 could work end-game, but we're still relatively small, so the Australia model is best. we can still react fast enough to not require a responsive local government.
>>
>>32338458
>Another advantage it has over just centralized bureacracy is that centralized bureacracy cannot adapt quickly to local conditions by its very nature.
we are discussing whether to have substates or appointed beurocrats.

Talon
>Currently Vitria is its own state within the empire so a possibility is to extend it to the other areas.
Mal
>You mean have a series of duchies making of the empire? Won’t that just unnecessarily dilute your power?
>why not just appoint some administrators and save the separate state structure for special occasions.

So, either way there are going to be local rulers. The question is whether they are direct appointees of talon with little power. Or if they have a high degree of autonomy
>>
I don't mind much either way, and I probably won't be here to vote, but please keep a strong central government.
>>
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>>32338521
>You'll actually be creating more bureacracy that way. Decentralisation almost always results in bureaucratic duplication in practice but the decentralised areas can usually allocate resources more effectively due to being more specialised. In this case, I'm representing this largely as a trade-off between control (less bureacracy makes it easier for you to control things) and more effective function.
Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up, i was just trying to avoid what this image does.
>>
>>32338521
Have you read the safehold series? Because that form of "Imperial federalism" was remarkably effective and seems pretty relevant.
>>
>>32338617

And I favor autonomy on subjects that concern the region, and only the region.

Things that concern both the empire and the region, like trade between Vitria and Darlesia? That would be with the bureacracy and not local leaders if that makes sense
>>
>>32338556
This also lets us fine tune the laws in the local districts for the situation there. We could split say Taour into their own bureaucracy.

On the other hand no law is above imperial law and we define that. Meaning anytime someone tries to make a large power grab we can call it a coup.
>>
>>32338626
Well, yes, the American health care system is a mess. That has little to due with "big government"
>>
>>32338626
Jesus Christ that is bloated, what is that?
>>
>>32338617
Given the extent of the powers granted to our imperial bureaucracy, they won't have much power no matter how much autonomy we give them.

That's why I'm in favor of making the local unit a barony - i.e. its directly appointed by Talon now, but then it becomes a hereditary position, thereby promoting stable and continuous rule.
>>
>>32338601
>Nah, the two ideas are a monolithic imperial bureaucracy or some from of federalism
All 3 suggested ideas are feudal AND federal in nature.
The only question is on the exact NATURE of the pieces in that federal/feudal structure

1. Archduchy idea
Lots of power to local nobles (who have their own armies and own laws). They politic amongst each other to form voting blocs. they could cause us lots of trouble. Also undermines our ability to have this as a REWARD and undermines sarah.
2. Beurocrats appointed by talon idea (mal)
We can overrule them on anything. They are mayors and the like who work for the state. Don't have their own armies.
3. Nobles appointed by talon idea (tsucchi)
We can overrule them on anything, but they have more power and authority. their own armies. Their own family name to promote. But they don't form power blocs since each one is indepedent of the others and answers directly to talon instead of answering to an archduchy council like in vitria
>>
>>32338677
It'd probably be best to establish 'Imperial Regions' by which the central imperial bureaucracy can compare different areas - in the same way the US military splits the world into different zones of military operation, i.e. CENTCOM, etc.
>>
>>32338716
>but then it becomes a hereditary position

Which is just asking to get a nutcase one day.
>>
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>>32338629
I haven't. Feel free to propose and explain it.

>>32338601
It's really three ideas. Central bureacracy; delegating power to managers of larger units/states (but still retaining the power and ability to override them); giving power to the states that you won't get back without causing a major crisis (modern federalism).

Things like trade, federal policing, foundries etc will still remain empire issues. This mostly concerns your ability to influence areas more directly - the ability of modern federalist governments to directly influence outcomes from the very top is incredibly limited. (And I don't think i'll go further than that due to politics). Also, there'll be a certain degree of local management in all cases. Even a centralised bureaucracy still has branches.

>>32338556
This here would probably be my model for choice 2.

>Final bout of discussion before I call some votes, where I'll present what I'll be using as the gameplay trade-offs directly
>>
>>32338684
1. Captitalism usually has highly efficient utilization of resources.
2. In health care that utilization of resources tends to leave poor people dead.
3. Most Americans find this immoral, but don't want a nationalized health care.
This is the resulting mess. Letting people die if they can't pay or nationalizing the whole thing would work better,
>>
The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his 'natural superiors,' and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, callous 'cash payment.' It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervor, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom—Free Trade. In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation.

The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honored and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage laborers.

The bourgeoisie has torn away from the family its sentimental veil, and has reduced the family relation to a mere money relation.

The time has come comrades! Let us create a new world free of the bourgeoisie, a paradise for the working man! Join me and vote!
>>
>>32338755
Which isn't that bad, because the Baron's don't really control anything important (like big military formations or inter-regional commerce). They are more like a local complaints office for local citizenry and our the local enforcer of Imperial rules and provisions.

Nothing says we can't remove them from their position if they turn out to be crazy as well.
>>
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>>32338778
>>32338796
Not to dampen discussion, but I would prefer if openly political discussions stay out of the thread. There's more suitable places for that on 4chan.
>>
>>32338796
You know, the idea that everything is equal doesn't tend to work in a setting where some of the people are immortal superhuman intelligences.
>>
>>32338720
Yeah. One thing people don't realize is feudalism only existed due to lack of resources. They needed to crowdfund shit so they gave people power like that. In a setting like that we really don't need to worry about that since we have sending devices. So no emperor would want true feudalism.

Which is why when kings got strong enough they centralized the hell out of that shit.
>>
>>32338753
imperial regions is a good idea to implement the the bureaucrat appointee's idea from mal for regions lacking in nobility.
They are employees that can be fired rather then armed nobles with inheritable titles.
>>
>>32338817
yes please. this quest is not dealing with that type of modern systems.

@Aspir, you said you would basically
>>
>>32338774
>I haven't. Feel free to propose and explain it.
Its pretty close to 1, but tended more to be a method of rapidly convincing local rulers to play ball. Also, said local rulers tended to be on islands the size of greenland (but considerably greener), so central control was a terrible idea anyway.
>>
>>32338827
you are pretty much right. We don't suffer the communication issues of ancient rome. We also happen to be unaging and at a pinch teleportation is available
>>
>>32338807
Honestly I would rather go for just bureaucrats here. You want the position? Take the official test. Of course it is easy enough to pull them from the nobility given how well educated they tend to be.
>>
>>32338827
>So no emperor would want true feudalism.
True. At the same time, the nobility is a very powerful force and inherited might is a Thing in this setting from what I can tell, so nobility will always be around in some form.
>>
>>32338887

Of course, that would lead to the long term strategic goal of educating the populace for wider pool of talent.

Aspiring Emperor Quest: We Education Policy Now
>>
>>32338899
The RSK and magi league are in a huge freaking war over the right to rule from blood. And our position on the issue is going to be a huge factor on our attempt to remain neutral with them. If we strongly favor one or the other they will make us enemies
>>
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>>32338907
Eh there are advantages to having a stupid population, but yeah we do need more mages.
>>
>>32338938
>The RSK and magi league are in a huge freaking war over the right to rule from blood. And our position on the issue is going to be a huge factor on our attempt to remain neutral with them.
Nope. The Magi league still has a powerful nobility. Alice considers them too powerful to take on at this point in time. Also, a very high % of mages are also members of noble families, so she'd alienate them as well.
>>
>>32338938
The Magi league has nobles anon. The nobility has been described as one of the most resilient forces in the setting.
>>
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Note that this vote will stand for some time, but it is possible to move to another over time (though it is very hard to move from option 1 to anything else).

GOVERNANCE VOTE
>1. Modern federalism.
Empire retains control over major issues of the state at large (e.g. trade, military) but relegates all planning, delivery and management of regions to states and their rulers. Overthrowing this relegation will cause a crisis should it happen. Influencing issues not in the empire’s sphere of influence will rely on political connections.

Can potentially have productivity benefits (more taxes, higher population growth, higher order) but bad rulers can be difficult to unseat, corruption will be easier and control will generally be lower.

>2. Delegated authority
The empire has ultimate control of everything but delegates the execution of policy (and in some cases the planning of said policy) to imperial units (aka states). Issues with states can be resolved by effectively firing the administrators and appointing new ones or assuming direct control of the state’s matters.

Has limited productivity benefits but no positive order effects. In exchange, corruption and control issues are easier to deal with.

>3. Central bureaucracy
The empire controls and manages everything except the most local of units (individual towns or cities). Branches are maintained across the empire but are centrally controlled and managed.

No productivity benefits or order effects but will increase control slightly all around. All management (good and bad) will have exaggerated effects on order and productivity.

>4. Custom
>>
>>32339000
>2

We Australia now
>>
>>32339000
2 or 1. I'm generally in favor of it being an inherited title as well. Removal should be possible but rare.
>>
>>32338887
me too. the way I look at it
1. archduchies - armed nobles conspiring with each other to gain power in a state within a state
2. appointed nobles - armed nobles each with a fief answering directly to talon.
3. appointed administrators - administrators with a fief answering directly to talon.

I would say that 1 is actually least likely to address LOCAL needs because the local needs are superceded by the needs of the archduchy. 2 and 3 are almost the same, the real difference is that in 2 we give up power, create family bloodlines of power (rather than people earning position on merit), and that they are armed.

Also, I hate the idea of there being militarizes within our empire that don't answer to us simply because it is a huge waste of manpower and resources. Those nobles are going to have to shave off a large chunk of change from the populace for their own personal wealth to finance those armies. and only small parts of said armies support us directly in war (our levy)
>>
>>32339000
2
>>
>>32338872
Yeah. Now this is true. One of the more useful ideas here is to let the cultural laws and the likes be used when needed. Just because it gives incentive to join.

On the other hand it's easy enough to use with a overriding imperial structure. I really don't think Talon care all that much as long as he can override what he needs and they pay their taxes/obey the fundamental basic imperial scale laws.
>>
>>32339000
>2
>>
>>32339000
>2
>>
>>32339000
>2. Delegated authority
>>
>>32339020
Sounds good to me. Its basically like impeaching them.
>>
>>32339000
3
>>
>>32339000
Why can't we remove bad rulers for option 1? We have the "inquisition" to watch them and gather evidence then remove them from power.
>>
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>>32339017
Kinda sorta. I modified the options slightly (of course, with the way the powers are separated between states and the feds Down Under the differences are arguably superficial).

Also, I think this is the closest I've gotten to actual political/economic discussion in this quest. I wonder if anybody sussed out my personal views from this...
>>
>>32339000

>2

As one of the main proponents of >1, I am still partial to it, but it would definitely be more useful once we have a large empire. Good to hear that we'll have some flexibility as well in moving governments.
>>
>>32339000
>2. Delegated authority
Get too into control of things and you'll have shit like "Down with the System!", and everything gets blamed on the "lazy, corrupt, wrong politcal dickheads"
>>
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>>32339078
You could effectively impeach and remove them, sure, but without enough evidence it will come out poorly (the PotUS dismissing a state governor, for instance, probably backed by military might). Plus, you'll then need to replace the ruler.

Anyway, looks like a 2.
>>
I think too many people are reading the title and not the detail.
Look at number 3. EACH TOWN has its own individual authority.

#2 has us grouping towns together
>>
>>32339000
>All management (good and bad) will have exaggerated effects on order and productivity.
Already voted but... am I the only one who really wants this? Yea, bad managers would cause more harm. but good ones will do more good. And if we can't trust ourselves to manage than who can we?
>>
>>32339162
2 is basically 1 except we can fire the ruler for incompetence. We're probably going to call the managers archdukes anyway for political reasons.
>>
>>32339178

It's moderating the risk. Kinda like how in investment portfolio, you diversify even though you know for sure that this stock is going to triple in the next month.

It won't
>>
>>32339081
Agreed on that front. I believe at present 2 has the best set up and is flexible enough to be changed later on.

Also we're basically fantasy Australia now. Even in the right hemisphere for it.
>>
>>32339000
>2. Delegated authority

While I am partial to 3, with the amount of expansion our empire is going to go through, the bureaucracy would certainly become too large and corrupt.
>>
>>32339079
>I wonder if anybody sussed out my personal views from this...
I can clearly see what your opinions are about various implementations of monarchies (which are pretty sensible). But I cannot fathom a way to extrapolate your views on any modern political system. Nor on any modern economic system. Because there is absolutely no correlation between them
>>
>>32339200
>We're probably going to call the managers archdukes anyway for political reasons.

That would get confusing very quickly. Mainly because that would mean a random bureaucrat would have the same name as Sarah's position.
>>
>>32339247
I agree, we should NOT call them archdukes.
A proper term is magistrate
>>
>>32339247
Yeah, I'd rather call them Imperial Governors.
>>
>>32339247
>>32339200


What's wrong with Governor?
>>
So this is going to rule out the United Archduchies of Harrowmont name right?
>>
>>32339240
>this.

It's really hard to tell someones political leanings though the formation of old systems. For all we know he might have a full body statue of Stalin in his living room. Just because of how different those systems are.
>>
>>32339247
>a random bureaucrat
Yeah, we seem to have a very different idea of how much leway we're going to grant them. There's a difference between having athourity and using it.
>>
>>32339292
Nope. Can still call them archdukes. Was what I thought when I was voting for them anyway.
>>
>>32339292

I think so, it would only make sense with #1, and even that it might be a stretch.
>>
>>32339301
I agree that they would have some decent authority. But the main difference is that dukes are NOBLES.
their authority comes from being born into power.
While an appointee is an employee.

It is the difference between being hired as a CEO, and owning 60% of the stock and appointing yourself CEO.
Technically the latter can be dislodged for gross incompetence if the remaining 40% owners sue, in which case some years later his son can ascend the position. While in the hired CEO case he can be fired instantly by the board and replaced.
>>
>>32339301
This would be like calling the mayor of a town the archduke. While we have real archdukes running around. You really can't call two people the same title then have the same two people have differing powers by law unless you want power grabs and pain. That term has a meaning.
>>
>>32339361
>While we have real archdukes running around
we do have archdukes.
Sarah is an archduke. Calling someone else an archduke is stating their power equals her. Which is a big slap in the face to her considering that it ISN'T the same.
>>
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Actually, this is a great time to finish the name vote. Especially as the scene I just wrote up needs to be done after the League and RSK meetings. Whoops.

NAME VOTE
OPTION 1
>United Archduchies of Harrowmont
Note, this mean you'll be calling the heads of your states Archdukes (even though they're different to Sarah in status).

OPTION 2
>The Radiant Empire

OPTION 3
>Verum Imperium

OPTION 4
>The York Empire
Choosing 'The York Empire' means that Talon will be showing a certain amount of pride in his name. This will change his character slightly over time.

Rules for voting are to make a post with a link to this post and the number you are voting for. No other text, no greentexting the number. All informal votes will be discarded. Voting window will be five minutes after the first vote.
>>
>>32339405
4
>>
>>32339405
4
>>
>>32339405
1 or 2
The others are terrible
>>
>>32339405
4
>>
>>32339405
>>32339413

I originally voted 1, but the name makes no sense with our government structure unfortunately.
>>
>>32339405
4
>>
>>32339382
Yep. Exactly what I said. Archduke has meaning of a noble leader with X amount of power. SO calling someone that is just an employee of the empire the same thing is asking for them to just say "Wait we are called the same but why does she have more powers then?" and be a slap in the face to the real ones.
>>
>>32339405
2
>>
>>32339405
1
>>
>>32339155
>Anyway, looks like a 2.
aspir, what is sarah's view on this modified vote?
On the original one she objected to carving up the empire into archduchies because it undermines her.
But the vote in >>32339000 had restructured options due to our discussion.

I think the delegated authority is closer to what mal suggested than what talon did (and she objected to)
>>
>>32339405
2
>>
>>32339405
>2 or 4

Count it as a vote for whichever is winning. I love em both.
>>
>>32339437
>Yep. Exactly what I said
I was agreeing with you. just clarifying
>>
>>32339405
>The Radiant Empire

Works for me. One is pretentious latin. One is calling an empire after yourself. One doesn't really make much sense in the long term. So just saying our empire is radiant and glorious works for me.
>>
>>32339405
2 or 1.
I kinda like the title "Lord Protector" Better than Emperor anyway
>>
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>>32339453
It leaves her special and happy.

>>32339479
>>32339475
>>32339466
>>32339424
Contentious vote, folks. These don't count.
>>
>>32339424
>>32339466
>>32339475

Yo, it's a called vote
>>
>>32339405
I am voting for NOT 1
Anything but 1 is good
>>
>>32339405
4
>>
>>32339405
2
>>
>Dat feel when you realize we have so many posts. But they where ALL ABOUT BUREAUCRACY!
>>
>>32339405
2
>>
>>32339517

I enjoy talking about bureaucracy though
>>
>>32339489
>Contentious vote, folks. These don't count.
You didn't actually SAY contentious vote
... drat, I can't vote for "not 1" with a contentious vote, I have to vote for something specific
>>
Naming an empire after your self is so tacky.
>>
>>32339529
4 is the best option
>>
>>32339529

I don't think you have to worry about 1 winning, friend
>>
>>32339405
1
>>
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Last vote that counts:
>>32339524

Looks like 4 beat out 2 by one vote.

>>32339529
See:
>>32339405
>Rules for voting are to make a post with a link to this post and the number you are voting for. No other text, no greentexting the number. All informal votes will be discarded. Voting window will be five minutes after the first vote.
>>
>>32339405
2
>>
>>32339405
2
>>
>>32339572
That sucks. Never leave to go get a drink while in emperor quest I guess.
>>
>>32339572
could we have a revote given the confusion?
>>
>>32339475
>pretentious latin
that is the best kind
>>
>>32339608
5 minutes already passed, and this just slows down the quest.
>>
>>32339608
As much as I would like one so I can get my vote for #2 in I don't think he is going to give us one.
>>
>>32339608
lets just move on, please
>>
>>32339572
Our empire is going to sound like a market place and I find this more hilarious then I should. Though I suppose it works given Talons pride.

>>32339528
I find it fun too. Just jesus this is a lot of posts just about it.
>>
>>32339608
I'd prefer one honestly. we usually have a lot more warning before a contentious vote
>>
>>32339608
I honestly don't' care either way.
>>
>>32339608
>>32339655
He wrote that it was final destination style in his post
blame yourselves for being retarded and not reading it
>>
>>32339663
>I honestly don't' care either way.
I spent 5 minutes struggling to decide whether o vote 2,3, or 4 and ended up not voting
>>
>>32339608

The name's not that important in the grand scheme of things, anon.

Also, not to be snide, but the 4 voters somehow read the whole post so give them some credit.
>>
Welp, we egotistical douchebag now. I wouldn't be bothered by York if it wasn't our last name.
>>
>>32339682
he actually informed people who misvoted before the cutoff so they could fix their votes
>>
>>32339682
Now i support a revote just because you're a dick
>>
Yorkshire ftw
>>
>>32339720
k
have fun crying
>>
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>>32339608
Contentious votes are formatted completely differently to normal votes, what with the way each option is spelt out.

So, no revote. Plus, doing revotes only causes more drama if the result changes.

>2.

“I have to admit, I’m rather sold on the idea of delegating authority without truly giving it away,” you say after much discussion and deliberation. “Granting noble title and letting them rule, except when they cross me. I’ll just need to make sure that the mechanism for removing them from power is simple. The point of this is to avoid rebellion.”

“I’ll see if I can’t devise something with some assistance from Lady Gendarme,” Marcus says. “It is unlikely it will be so watertight as to prevent all rebellion but at least the act itself will be legitimate.

“In other news, I’ve decided to name the empire after myself,” you say. “We are now The York Empire.”

Mal shakes his head with a smile. “I can’t believe you’re going to introduce yourself as Imperator Talon York of the York Empire. You are going to piss off everybody.”

“I’m a commoner who will rule them all one day. No reason not to rub it in,” you say, grinning slightly.

The others just shake their head a bit, though Marcus seems to find it interesting.

>Continued
The next part will be construction. It will be slightly delayed as I'm eating lunch.
>>
>>32339735

Based Marcus
>>
>>32339735
Heh, yeah I figured Talon would end up seeing it that way.

He's always been an ego filled kinda guy anyway.
>>
>>32339735
>Contentious votes are formatted completely differently to normal votes, what with the way each option is spelt out.
They also have always happened as a revote of a vote that you suspected involved some shenanigans, usually with substantial warning time to make up for the extremely limited voting frame.
>>
>>32339734
>k

>>>/out/
>>
>>32339785
I'm in favor of that warning time. The 5 minute time-frame is nasty enough as is without it coming completely cold.
>>
>>32339735
>We going to go full Alexander the great now.

How many cities do you think we can rename to Talon?
>>
>>32339793
pic related

>>32339785
nope
u new?
>>
>>32339735
>I can’t believe you’re going to introduce yourself as Imperator Talon York of the York Empire
I am the empire! :P
>>
>>32339785
meh, its no big deal. and the results are hilarious.

>>32339827
None, talon is no name for a city...
Now, Talonshire. Talonsgrad. Talonsville... those are some good solid names
>>
>>32339827

"Itinerary
Monday: Talonpolis
Tuesday: Talon City
Wednesday: New York
Thursday: "Talon Fucked Bitches and Rekt Vampires Here" City
>>
>>32339831
>U
>Pic related

How the mighty have fallen. Now we have people who are barely literate on /tg/.
>>
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>>32339785
I do usually provide some warning time if the contentious vote will be the first one and I'll try to do that in the future. Sorry to the people who missed it due to that lack of warning but I feel a revote would only make things worse.
>>
>>32339864
>Naming a nation new york

Oh, God why? Now I will actually vote for this if we ever get a chance to name a city.
>>
>>32339864
>Thursday: "Talon Fucked Bitches and Rekt Vampires Here" City
that is actually multiple cities
>>
>>32339793
>>32339831
>>32339868

pls stop, this is polite bureaucracy thread
>>
>>32339868
>implying /tg/ was ever mighty
>implying /tg/ ever was free of barely literate people

newfriend confirmed
>>
>>32339898
I agree, this quest is usually much more civil than the rest of tg. lets keep it this way
>>
>>32339881
Eh, It's fine with me and I missed it. Just try to give the warning time later on. Went out to lunch for a bit there.

Honestly this is why I like this quest. When something someone doesn't like happens your are pretty chill and so is most of the readers.
>>
>>32339735
>You are going to piss off everybody.
This, is going to be, GLORIOUS!
>>
>>32339910
;_; Can't you leave me with my delusions of grandeur? I want to believe that the time I spent here was a better time then now.
>>
>>32339990
if u wanna hold on to those delusions u can keep ur mouth shut when I abbreviate
it's convenient
>>
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CONSTRUCTION

You go over the reports from your generals.

Darlesia is still in ruins, despite your efforts and will likely take a substantial amount of time to rebuild even with earth elemental help. Gareth’s estimate is, with Bartom’s aid, that complete reconstruction will take around twelve months with the military helping. More magical aid or Gnome could trim some months off the estimate. It also doesn’t take into account rebuilding the foundry or mage towers.

Taour isn’t hugely damaged, but the structure of the city has Parras concerned. His words in the report show a barely constrained rage at the way so much of the population is relegated to an underground ghetto. The problem is that undoing this will mean that the city proper will need to expand outside the walls, making them next to useless. Lynn makes a comment that the underground area would be suitable for dwarves though. Expanding outside the city limits will require your military to remain in the area for the next few months, but they likely need to do that as is. The real issue is whether to attempt to build a new wall outside of the new city limits, which would likely take several months of dedicated effort from Gnome and your mages.

Finally, that leaves Harrowmont itself. The keep itself has been fully renovated, as have all the areas save for the manors. The manors will be vital for housing important guests and any cabinet members who prefer something less militant for lodgings. You could also expand the mage tower to provide room for more mages and research. Or, as Gnome proposes, expand with another outer wall to provide additional mustering space or residential/merchant space. The former two are perhaps a couple of months work together for Gnome but the latter will take least half a year for her and your mages. Finally, building outposts in the bluffs and expanding your hidden tunnel are options.

There may also be other construction projects you haven’t considered yet.

>discussion
>>
>>32340060
>Convenient

ahahahahhaha. I'm sure it is.
>>
>>32340112
>Darlesia

Very important.

>Taour

Also important. Maybe more due to the danger of rebellion.

>Harrowmont
Not as important. I do think the outer wall idea is pretty good though.
>>
>>32340112
I'm all up to giving the underground to the dorfs
>inb4 Lava Moats
We need more dorfs in this empire
>>
>>32340112
I like the idea of filling tour up with Dwarves, but can we expand the underground ghetto into a sprawling cty?
>>
>>32340112

(1) Darlesia,

Could we import builders and construction workers from other areas of the country, particularly Vitria?

If we contract Vitrian construction companies and have them employ locals, we could cut additional time while also making Vitrian merchants/nobles and local laborers happy. This would be a pretty good economic stimulus as well.

We need to focus on rebuilding mage towers and foundaries as well.

(2) Taour, I'm not inclined to prioritize building new walls at the minute. I'd never been that big of believer in walls as an effective defense anyway. We have other priorities at the moment.

(3) Expansion of mage tower is first priority. Additional residental/merchant space is needed to really make Harrowmont a capital.

Manors, eh, they can tough it out
>>
>>32340112
My suggestion
>Rebuild Darlesia to 'acceptable condition' with the help of everything we got.
>Allow our specialty units (Elemental and such) to move to help Taour with this new construction (Contact Dwarves to help with how to handle this, Maybe we can turn these 'ghettos' into decent places to live without moving out of them? Who knows.)

And finally
>Build outposts and such
Harrowmont doesn't NEED more protection, I figure. Not when we have citizens in squalor and all that.
>>
>>32340224
>I'd never been that big of believer in walls as an effective defense anyway. We have other priorities at the moment.
Ironically, they are currently the most effective for us, given the AA's advantages on a wall.
>>
I don't think I'm going to stop being mad at that name vote, especially since my internet cut out right as I was about to vote 2. this is such bullshit.
>>
>>32340112
Given that our Empire will have a fairly large central bureaucracy for managing most inter-regional matters, I think that Harrowmont will have to be expanded with a big governmental quarter for civil servants to live and work in.
>>
>>32340112
1. We should let regular people do most of the construction. Paying them wages.
2. We should try hiring some more mages with earth elemental familiars.

>Taour
Let the people expand outwards and upwards. The walls are still useful in case of a siege and I don't expect one soon. We could have regular laborers build a second wider wall over the next 10 years or so.
Also, having areas that attract dwarves are a boon. Why force humans to live where they don't want when we can attract dwarves to those same buildings?
Also, have military remain parked there and assisting for now

>Darlesia
Rebuild everything. Have military remain parked there for a while and assisting for now

>Harrowmont
Have gnome rebuild the manors.
Then have her start working on a second outer wall to providing more residential/merchant space.
Only expand mage tower when there are enough mages to justify doing so.
>>
>>32340224
>(3) Expansion of mage tower is first priority.
we have a tower big enough for 50 mages being occupied by maybe 5 mages.
why is expanding it a priority?

also, when we reveal the source we would have an influx of mages who wish to come here, they could use their magic to help build up the tower
>>
>>32340224
>Manors, eh, they can tough it out
Probably hurts diplomacy, and should be the easiest to make in my opinion.
Also guys can we have our mages summon earth elementals?
>>
>>32340295
We also probably want a large central bank / treasury; as well as a few mini-keeps within Harrowmont itself, I mean, our new Knightly orders have to be headquartered somewhere.
>>
>>32340302
>2. We should try hiring some more mages with earth elemental familiars.
by that I mean look outside the empire and entice some.
Someone earlier suggested head hunters. I think this should be a big priority.

OH! We should set up a warmage school!
A school dedicated entirely to training people in combat magics rather then the theoretical research done in towers.
>>
>>32340334
Yeah I didn't really understand that either. I thought we were short on mages, no needing more room for them?
>>
>>32340302
>10 years
way to long for that, walls are surprisingly fast to make, but we do need mages to enchant them.
>>
>>32340224
>>32340302

I second the idea of having workers other than military and elementals take up brunt of the construction work.

We have ton of money, let's put it to good use by enriching the poor. Instead of using their energy being angry and plotting against us, they'll get good wages working hard to rebuild their homes.

That's a Win-Win solution right there.

We can repair the original walls, and then have the civilians fall back to the walls if there's an attack. A second layer seems kinda redundant
>>
>>32340362
>A school dedicated entirely to training people in combat magics rather then the theoretical research done in towers.
They still need to research stuff.
>>
>>32340373
My point was that the walls should be a long term project that gets minimal priority.
>>
>>32340363

I guess my point was that better accommodations = easier to recruit mages.

Perks of the job
>>
>>32340374
>We have ton of money,
actually we are working on a budget, the magitech plate armour ate through our budget fast.
>>
>>32340336
We should have Archmagister Saril and his tower offer technical assistance in summoning Earth elemental familiars for any mages of sufficient magical power who currently do not have a familiar, with financial benefits of course.
>>
>>32340387
>They still need to research stuff.
No they don't. Combat mages are very different than tower mages. someone COULD do both (and you don't reach the highest ranks without being able to do both). But combat mages basically memorize a couple of useful spells and then spend their time drilling. Their can throw fireballs all day.
It is the difference between engineers and physicists. The two are intricately related but distinct.
>>
>>32340414
Yeah just having two earth elmentals is not enough right now.
>>
>>32340412

Do we? Know where I can find the latest on our numbers?

I still think this has the greatest return for our buck.

We are injecting money straight into our economy into the hands of those who need it most, which would both rebuild our infrastructure and prevent civil discontent.
>>
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Some of these proposals might use up considerable sums of money so I'll hold off on votes on them until I've demonstrated the foundry stuff (which can be very expensive).

>>32340334
You have about 30 mages in Harrowmont.

>>32340336
>Also guys can we have our mages summon earth elementals?
Not quite so easy as that, but something you can try to aim for in some cases, though the elementals will be a bit weaker in most cases.

>>32340363
You're short on battlemages. Having tower rooms for battlemages might work to attract some magisters.

>>32340362
Good relations with the Magi League might be able to get you more mages.

>Military, financial and foundry posts incoming
>>
>>32340436
Really?
I thought they still had to research, but also train as well.
>>
>>32340412
Did it? Last I checked we had a surplus of 600 TBY.
We earmarked 150 TBY to have our researches do magitech research with what is basically unlimited funding (max we can spend on it)
We had the option for like 100 TBY Would be the cost for our foundries to manufacture man at arms equipment at max capacity and we voted against it. instead voting to produce 10TBY worth and stop. this leaves us with a 440 TBY surplus this year
>>
>>32340458
>Having mage rooms attracks battle mages

WHOA
Whoa
whoa

Let's do THAT then.
>>
>>32340458

>You're short on battlemages. Having tower rooms for battlemages might work to attract some magisters.

Gnome better get cracking on fucking hotels for these battlemages then
>>
>>32340482
I thought we had less, but your probably right,since i only remember the foundry stuff was expensive as hell and people choosing to invest in making stuff.
>>
>>32340465
>I thought they still had to research, but also train as well.
that is mal, he is rare in that he is both a combat and a research mage at the same time.
>>
>>32340458
so, I just arrived after the name vote, and I just have to ask: are we going to get a chance to revote after we expand some? Because the York Empire offends every writer's bone in my body. The tackiness is off the charts. I can stick with it for now because democracy, but can we please get a revote after we conquer one of the major players?
>>
>>32340526
It was also before we conquered all of Taour though, so the information was rather out of date. we also seized the treasury of both Darlesia and Taour.
>>
>>32340583
I thought it was before we conquered taour and before conquering darlesia. At the time it was vitria only

Then again, I get the feeling that darlesia is going to be a net loss in income until rebuilt
>>
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>>32340565
Maybe.

MILITARY

Current Force
TOTAL = 11358 troops
295 Flying Mage-Knights
>85 Veteran
>150 Regular
>60 Green
140 Heavy Mage-Knights
>140 Regular
1500 Medium Mage-Knights
>650 Veteran
>400 Regular
>450 Green
300 Arcane Archers
>250 Veteran
>50 Regular
3000 Archers
>1000 Regular
>2000 Conscripts
550 Heavy Men-at-arms
>300 Regular
>250 Green
5500 Men-at-arms
>600 Veteran
>1100 Regular
>3800 Conscripts
73 Battlemages
>50 Veteran
>23 Regular

The losses at Taour were relatively minimal, though there were still some. You’ve currently moved most of the Taouran military into a garrison position rather than the standing army simply due to the civil order issues you’re currently experiencing.

Your military is split in half, with half in Darlesia and the other half in former Taouran territories. The Vitrian reinforcements are still helping to keep the peace there as well.

The main issue you have is inadequate training for many of your new recruits and the fact you need a larger military. The further you push your military in terms of size, the more of a budget you’ll need to assign from them. If you can restore order to your lands, that won’t be as big an issue but for now it will be.

FINANCIAL POSITION STATEMENT FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE, 1953 (NEXT YEAR)

(Current as of September 12th, 1952)

TBY = Currency unit

Current Treasury = 900TBY

Maximum Agricultural Tax = 2483TBY
Estimated Agricultural Tax = 1513TBY
Maximum Tradeables Taxes (Property, Duties etc) = 584TBY (excludes preferred merchant license profits)
Estimated Tradeables Taxes = 278TBY (excludes preferred merchant license profits)
Trade Licenses = 262TBY (five-year license)

Military Expenses = 667TBY
Admin Expenses = 616TBY
Foundry Expenses = 240TBY
Other Military Expenses = 30TBY

Projected Net Revenue = 501TBY
Projected EoY Treasury = 1401TBY

>foundry incoming
>>
We never voted on what to do with the vampires
>>
>>32340621
>The further you push your military in terms of size, the more of a budget you’ll need to assign from them.
are you saying we need to increase military budget to maintain its quality, or are you saying that our military budget automatically increases as we increase its size?

>You’ve currently moved most of the Taouran military
Do you mean our forces posted in taour, or do you mean the soldiers who used to work for taour that surrendered to us?
>>
>>32340621
That spoiler, Thank you not Writer anon but, it too bugs the hell out of me.
>>
>>32340621
Thank you. I don't feel it was entirely fair given the confusion over whether it was contentious or not, and it seemed like more people were for 2 than not, even if they weren't in contentious form.

do you have a preferred name, or are you not allowed to share that?
>>
>>32340565
>Because the York Empire offends every writer's bone in my body. The tackiness is off the charts
sometimes tacky is awesome
>>
>>32340704
its funny how few people voted for verum in the contentious vote.
yet take a look here
http://www.demochoice.org/dcresults.php?poll=empirename#Round1
>>
>>32340621

Semi-interesting tidbit: Our current agricultural taxes covers almost 100% of all our current expenses.

Which means our trade taxes and trade licenses are where our surpluses are coming from.

>>32340697

Only if yall:

1. Come up with a better name
2. We rename Harrowmont or Darlesia to New York
>>
>>32340697
I'm not really sure why he thinks the results will be that different.
>>
>>32340621
>Maybe.
I would prefer it didn't. but IF it does I would like it to be a retcon rather then talon renaming it.
unless something major changed (like, we conquered the entire continent)
>>
>>32340704
>Entirely fair
At the end of the post it clearly stated that it was contentious.
Like. It couldn't have been clearer if it was in blinking red and blue lights.
>>
>>32340621
>300 Arcane Archers
>250 Veteran
>50 Regular
Ouch, how did they get hit that hard in the last battle?
FYI: on the siege of Taour we had 410, and its been at least a week since the start of that fight I think (so we should have gotten another 125 of them)
>>
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For future reference, the foundry situation will be in a pastebin to save space.

>>32340621
FOUNDRY

Using the sending device, Magister Farrell, your machinist in Vitria, informs you of the current state of your magitech foundries.

“The mage-knight factory we retrieved from Darlesia has been recommissioned, despite a small delay on my part,” he explains. “Currently it’s using the Darlesian design but it could be modified to use a slightly different design without much difficulty.

“The Taouran foundry is in good shape, from what my magi brethren tell me. I am surprised at the sheer size of the heavy mage-knight factory they have, but I suppose that’s the price to pay to produce such large armour.

“Finally, the Darlesian foundry is in complete ruin. Both factories, civilian designs, are heavily damaged and the infrastructure of the foundry will need to be completely reconstructed.”

At his urging, you go over the report that details the costs and timeframes of the foundry projects available as well as the current situation.

Vitria

5 factory slots
>Civilian factory (required)
>Civilian factory (required)
>AA factory (joint production)
>AA factory (joint production)
>MMK factory; Darlesian design (rounded, grey and elegant, but otherwise nondescript)

Taour

5 factory slots
>Civilian factory (required)
>Civilian factory (required)
>HMK factory; Taouran design (bulky and blocky, purple)
>HMK factory (takes up two slots)
>MAA/Archer factory

Darlesia

5 factory slots
>Civilian factory – damaged, 40TBY and four weeks to repair
>Civilian factory - damaged, 40TBY and four weeks to repair
>Empty slot
>Empty slot
>Empty slot

>continued
>>
>>32340718
and sometimes Tacky is just Tacky. Having your gun be named something stupid is fun and hilarious. having your dog be named 'woof' is adorable. having your empire named after yourself is cringeworthy. with the awesome/tacky slider, it's all about the scale of it.
>>32340737
I would think it's a lot of people's second choice.
>>
>>32340738
>Semi-interesting tidbit: Our current agricultural taxes covers almost 100% of all our current expenses.
>Which means our trade taxes and trade licenses are where our surpluses are coming from.
Flawed logic. a proportional percentage of each is where the surplus is coming from. specifically from the fact we spend less then we take in.
>>
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>>32340766
PRODUCTION COSTS
>MAA/Archer Equipment
Blacksmith Production: 2000 units every 4 weeks for 10TBY
Factory Production: 1000 units every 4 weeks for 5 TBY

>MMK Equipment
Factory Production: 200 units every 4 weeks for 10TBY

>HMK Equipment
Factory Production: 50 units every 4 weeks for 20TBY (can be reduced by guaranteeing source of expensive and rare catalysts)

>AA Equipment
Factory Production: 500 units every 4 weeks for 10TBY

>Magitech Factories
Factory Repair: 40TBY and 4 weeks of a machinist
New Factory (MAA, MMK): 100TBY and 8 weeks of a machinist
New Factory (2xAA, HMK): 200TBY and 16 weeks of a machinist (note that AA production requires two factories producing jointly whereas the HMK factory just takes up two slots due to size)

>Foundry Expansion
Machinist does their work in the final weeks of construction and no production takes place in this time period.
Nothing to Small (+5 slots): 200TBY and 12 weeks of a machinist for automation etc; plus 52 weeks of labour for construction, halved for Bartom (and halved again for Gnome at Lvl2)
Small to Medium (+2 slots): 50TBY and 4 weeks of a machinist for automation expansion; plus 26 weeks of labour for construction, halved for Bartom (and halved again for Gnome at Lvl2)
Medium to Large (+3 slots): 150TBY and 10 weeks of a machinist for automation expansion; plus 52 weeks of labour for construction, halved for Bartom (and halved again for Gnome at Lvl2)

>>32340765
Huh, you're right. Luckily that appears to be the only number that's off (I maintain the total and deployment lists separately and for some reason the AA number was wrong - I might have meant to put in 600, which seems right).
>>
>>32340766
>AA factory (joint production)
what does joint production means?
>>
>>32340777

It's just a neat shortcut to match up the numbers,

I'm not saying that reduced agriculture will correspond to reduced expenses or that increased trade will correspond to significantly higher income, anon.
>>
>>32340738
I'd be fine with renaming either to New York.
>>32340741
With write anon theres around 4 people that missed or messed up the vote. 2 Only need 1 vote to tie. Tho the people that voted 1 would most likely move to either 2 or 4 as well.
>>32340767
This.

I won't derail anymore. I was fine with just about anything but naming it after ourselves.
>>
>>32340766
>Taour
>MAA/Archer factory
where did this come from? was taour reverse engineering our AA?
>>
>>32340815

Man at Arms / Archers probably

not AA Archers
>>
>>32340788
>Nothing to Small (+5 slots): 200TBY and 12 weeks of a machinist for automation etc; plus 52 weeks of labour for construction, halved for Bartom (and halved again for Gnome at Lvl2)
a Super foundry, can we have one in our capital?
>>
>>32340815
Man-At-Arms and vanilla archers. not AA.
>>
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>>32340788
Hopefully that info dump wasn't too huge. I'm going to need to think a bit on how to present this in the future to streamline things.

Note that the decisions made here will preferably last around a year in-game, with the possibility to review them if circumstances change.

>>32340789
One produces the arrows, the other the bows and other equipment. They need radically different designs due to the differences between arrows and the rest of the equipment (though research could change this).

>>32340815
Men-at-arms and Archer factory. Basically, they produce regular gear using a factory rather than just blacksmiths (to speed up production). Basically an explanation of how they equipped such a large military despite their small size.

>>32340825
Setting one up in Harrowmont will take twice as much machinist time to calibrate the machines for the excess magical energy but otherwise you can.
>>
>>32340766
>MAA/Archer factory
are you telling me that men at arms and archer equipment that is NOT magical is being producer in a magitech factory?
... I guess the mass production is cheaper than having smiths. But seems a bit of a waste of a slot since they can also be produced in smithies
>>
>>32340788
>(can be reduced by guaranteeing source of expensive and rare catalysts)
which catalyst? what are known locations with it? where is it imported from?
>>
>>32340859
How hard would it to be to change the color from purple? Also match all our troop's colors.
>>
>>32340867
we should probably do something to change the foundry design there and leave the MAA and Archer equipment to blacksmiths, and have the foundry make something more expensive.
>>
>>32340766
>Civilian factory – damaged, 40TBY and four weeks to repair
How much money does it earn us? I didn't see anything about it civilian factories in the income section.
>>
>>32340788
Just want to mention, but there is no per unit price advantage to using a factory.
>>
>>32340763
You have about 5 minutes to vote. So some people read it realize they got like 30 seconds to get it in due to going off for lunch then copypaste fast as possible.

>>32340788
Honestly I feel we should start working on getting a standard design for our mageplate. As well as getting LMK and FMK.

We should probably get MMK in another location just so we can have two factories working on it.
>>
>>32340898
Actually, weren't we going to create crests for them all based on which archduchy they were from? Standardize the colors to our flag with a quartered shield on the front, and each shield has a different symbol for each land? Vitria, Darlesia, Harrowmont and Taour would each get different crested legions. That was the plan, right?
>>
>>32340859

I'm slightly confused about the foundary expansion.

Let's suppose we take Darlesia with its 3 empty slots and decide to upgrade it.

Would I be correct that it's going from small to medium? Shutting down production for 26 weeks without elementals?

Also, if we build one in any other town but Harrowmont, it would take 52 weeks, correct?

What's the time for converting a MAA/Archer factory to a regular MK factory?

Are we capable of producing MAA/Archer equipment without factories? If so, how much and at what cost?
>>
>>32340859
Can we have a vote for putting one in Harrowmont?
>>
>>32340788
Damn, AA gear is cheep compared to MMK gear.
>>
>>32340955
I want one in harrowmont. But with both taour and darlesia needing reconstruction I vote we wait until next year.
>>
>>32340955

>Setting one up in Harrowmont will take twice as much machinist time to calibrate the machines for the excess magical energy but otherwise you can.


Maybe we should look for another empty city first before we consider Harrowmont
>>
>>32340913
I think it means civilians need it for their own stuff. So we kinda have to make it, to keep up with people's needs.
>>
>>32340937
I don't remember to be honest, I was just looking at getting the ball rolling on it.
I like what you propose but, what would we do when we gain more nations under us?
>>
>>32340975
>>32340973
True, but i figured since we are gonna turtle up for a few months, might as well put a foundry in our capital.
>>
>>32340937
Not really. I think most people just went for a standard silver design with a Griffith on it. We really don't want to be stocking our empire on lines of nationality. That is just asking for a fight and would require shifting the template each time we produced one type of armor.
>>
>>32340936
I'm not really sure what you're expecting, anon. QM is not responsible for people needing to go and do things, or people absent for any number of reasons.
>>
>>32340975
We could put it in Mier or one of the other Harrowmont provinces, and simply have harrowmont's crest. Seems like the simplest solution. It'd bring economy to those areas, too.
>>
>>32340788
>Blacksmith Production: 2000 units every 4 weeks for 10TBY
>Factory Production: 1000 units every 4 weeks for 5 TBY
So factory production gives us the same cost per unit, but half the production rate?

Or do you mean that if we hire every single blacksmith in our country to product arms they can only make 2000 every month. While the single factory we own can produce half as much as that?
>>
>>32341012
It would be poorly defended though.
>>
>>32340993
We simply alter their mage-plate designs so they have different legions as well. It's rather simple. Creates uniformity and yet uniqueness, and can stimulate competition amongst the different lands in a healthy manner.
>>
>>32341001
Right now it's probably better to just put some in the other places we own now. Since they are already designed and all.
>>
>>32340788

Proposal:

(1) Convert MAA/Archer Factory in Taour to MMK Factory:

Additional Expenses: 40 TBY Initial Investment + 10 TBY Annual (From 5 initially)

Machinist Time: 4 Weeks

(2) Repair all 3 Darlesian Factories

Expenses: 120 TBY
Machinist Time: 12 Weeks (4x3)

(3) Switch MAA/Archer Equipment to Blacksmith Production

Expenses: 10 TBY

Total Expenses: 180 TBY
Total Artificer Time: 16 Weeks

How's that for some basic steps before we figure out what to put in the Darlesian factories?
>>
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So, any ideas for what you guys want to produce? Recruitment, quantities of MMKs/AAs etc.

>>32340913
Oh, right, forgot to mention that part.

You need 1 civilian factory per 500 urban pop or you'll take economic penalties as your citizens start mass importing civilian magitech and manufactures (and suffer from tariffs). I'll basically handle this as necessary.

>>32340935
Intentional. Magitech factories are expensive to run - it's just faster (one factory matches half the weapons output of your entire nation).

>>32340961
Less metal and catalysts in the armour as you're not covering them in enchanted steel.

>>32340944
>What's the time for converting a MAA/Archer factory to a regular MK factory?
Same as building a new one.

>Are we capable of producing MAA/Archer equipment without factories? If so, how much and at what cost?
It's in the post under blacksmith production. 200 units per 4 weeks for 10TBY.

>Shutting down production for 26 weeks without elementals?
As noted directly above it, production only shuts down for the period when the machinist works on it.

>>32340893
Sithran Mountains (League, RSK) and the Magi Line (League, Mage Guard).

>>32340898
Trivial.

>>32341012
Yeah, you can set up foundries anywhere. Just be aware you would need to construct separate defenses if you want it defended.
>>
>>32341048

Shit, that should be

One time expense: 160 TBY
Additional on-going expense: 15 TBY
>>
>>32341010
He normally gives warning time for that type of vote. I mean personally I don't really but I get where they are coming from there.

>>32341037
Have 10 nations. 10 different mageplate templates for each type of MMK HMK LMK FMK we have. Unless you are talking about like spray painting a emblem on them.
>>
>>32341008
It's because we're recognizing that they are not a nameless part of the empire that it works. Look at the EU. Tons of countries are creating hard nationalist parties because the EU doesn't recognize that they are more than cogs in a machine. Now compare to America, where each state is recognized as unique and rips the shit out of each other in things like sports and other competitive displays without excess friction. By recognizing and encouraging healthy output of nationality, we create cohesion without fighting.
>>
>>32340788
So, here are some yearly max production figures (since we have a yearly budget)

>MAA/Archer Equipment
>Blacksmiths
24000 units a year for 120 TBY
>Factory
12000 Units a year for 60 TBY

>MMK
2400 units a year for 120TBY

>HMK
600 units a year for 240TBY (reduced when we conquer required resource which we are missing and currently importing

>AA Equipment
6000 units a year for 120TBY

Total max production cost: 660TBY

Projected Net Revenue = 501TBY
Current Treasury = 900TBY
>>
>>32341114
as it stands, our production capacity exceeds our revenue and we have other expenses (rebuilding the cities).
As such we will actually need to run some factories at below 100% production rate.

I propose we don't build HMK until we acquire the source for them. Also no more MAA/Archer stuff. Instead full steam ahead with AA and HMK.

I am also very curious as to income rate from civilian factories. Based on it I would either suggest dipping into our treasury to expand/build some more... or not.
>>
>>32341096
essentially a spray-paint emblem. Quartered shield with the Griffon claw in one quarter, and the symbol of whatever area's legion they're from. So, Darlesia, Taour and Vitria would look almost identical except for the different quarter of the shield.
>>
>>32341048

Additional Thoughts:

After rebuilding Darlesia Factories:

Equipping 3 factory slots will take 300 TBY flat and 24 weeks of machinists no matter what the combination is. (I think)

On-going expenses will be an additional 30 TBY.

If we want a new factory:

200 TBY up front and machinist for 12-24 weeks.

Presumably setting up 3 factory slots will again cost 300 TBY and 24 weeks of machinists.
>>
>>32341056
1. Repair the Factories first and formost. Then AA and MMK
2. Produce AA and MMK gear until both reach 3500.
3. Produce enough HMK gear to put their numbers at 1000
Total authorized field strength: 15000
Proposed OOB:
3500 MMK
3500 AA
800 HMK
555 HMA
3500 MA
3500 Archers
rest are battlemages
>>
>>32340825
We should not put a super foundry in our capital, yet. Due to interference and overloading from the source a capital foundry costs 2x and will produce identical results (at first).
We would have to build one to unlock the ability to research special tech that makes use of the extra local power to produce stuff that can't be made elsewhere. Once we do, then we should expand it into super foundry
>>
>>32341179

So if we just want to rebuild, reequip Darlesia and do Taour conversion, it will come out to 460 TBY up front and 45 TBY recurring.

If we want to build a factory on top of that, it can be anywhere from 660 TBY to 960 TBY with 75 TBY recurring.
>>
>>32341056
>You need 1 civilian factory per 500 urban pop or you'll take economic penalties as your citizens start mass importing civilian magitech and manufactures (and suffer from tariffs). I'll basically handle this as necessary.
Is the penalty if they import from outside the empire. Or if they import from outside the city? that is, if darlesia imports from vitria is there a penalty?
Also, do town pop count as urban? or only the major cities?
>>
>>32341197

I don't think we should ever stop producing these equipment. The TBY for production is generally a pittance compared to the up-front costs and it's useful to have a stockpile of equipment for many reasons, including trade if need be.
>>
>>32341114
I think its more important to figure out what we want our military to look like at the end and work backwards from there.
>>
>HMK Equipment
Factory Production: 50 units every 4 weeks for 20TBY (can be reduced by guaranteeing source of expensive and rare catalysts)

I don't see anywhere about what kinds of mines we have. Just that it has a mine and quarry.
How can we find these sources I guess is what I'm asking.
>>
>>32341100
I'd honestly rather go for a machine feeling. They are part of our army so a completely unified style marching at you would be terrorizing. You really don't want same branch competition in an army that just causes people to get pissed. You want differing branch like navy vs Army.
>>
>>32341168

Now that I can get into. Personally I would rather it be a symbol on the shoulder in that case.
>>
>>32341241
Not the other anon but, I think a uniformed military would be better as well but, couldn't we give colored cloaks to or something like that to give them some pride in their own states?
>>
>>32341235
This. People, what do you want the military to look like?
>>
>>32341241
>>32341241
in a world without real heavy transportation and communication abilities outside magic, different regions might as well be different branches.
>>
>>32341235
>>Here are the exact costs and a cost benefit analysis
>we should ignore the coists and decide what you want and then work from there
This is just silly. We should get the most military for the money.
>>
>>32341197
Since no one seems to want to talk about this much, I vote we go with this until we start reaching these numbers, then we can reassess.
>>
>>32341114

Wait, one of us is misreading the numbers because

>200 units every 4 weeks for 10TBY

and TBY is the currency per year, so the factory would take 10 TB per year.

I think you took 10 TBY to mean 10 TBY every 4 weeks, which I am not sure is the case.
>>
>>32341331

I would amend it to convert the Taour MA/Archer factory to MK factory and make our MA/Archer production dependent on Blacksmiths
>>
>>32341292
I personally want our armor style to be imposing as shit. For HMK, I want them all to look like they just jumped out of a game of 40K. for the AAs, I want them all carrying bows bigger than they are, flinging oak trees en masse at the enemy. I don't know about the others, but I want the people opposite us to have a heart attack when they see an army of blue.
>>
>>32341197
>1. Repair the Factories first and formost.
I agree
>Then AA and MMK
What do you mean by this? AA and MMK production does not require an engineer. It is already automated.

>2. Produce AA and MMK gear until both reach 3500.
I strongly disagree with stopping production on AA and MMK which are our bread and butter and the most cost effective.

>3. Produce enough HMK gear to put their numbers at 1000
this will take nearly 2 years. We are making the budget for this year. Also it will be expensive.
>>
>>32341114
>>32341349

According to Aspie, our current Foundry Expenses = 240TBY

So I'm pretty sure it's not 10 TBY every 4 weeks.
>>
>>32341349
This is an important quesiton.
Aspir can you clarify?
>>
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>>32341349
It's 10TBY for 4 weeks of production.

>>32341412
That's low because you're not producing anything right now.

Here's some interim votes while I sort out how to do a production vote.

You effectively have 1400TBY, including revenue.

BARTOM VOTE
>1. Leave Bartom to aid reconstruction in Darlesia
>2. Bring Bartom back to help construction in Harrowmont (manors, outer walls)
>3. Send Bartom to construct new walls for Taour
>4. Use Bartom to build a new foundry somewhere (this will also occupy 12 weeks of machinist time)

GNOME VOTE
>1. Send Gnome to aid reconstruction in Darlesia
>2. Leave Gnome back to help construction in Harrowmont (manors, outer walls)
>3. Send Gnome to construct new walls for Taour
>4. Use Gnome to build a new foundry somewhere (this will also occupy 12 weeks of machinist time)

MACHINIST VOTE
Please vote in priority order for this (e.g. list the numbers by the order of things you want done). Repeat a number if you want to do it more than once. Note you only have 3 spare factory slots right now.

>1. Repair the civilian factories in Darlesia (will be required if you take the Termina region)
>2. Convert the MAA/Archer Factory to an MMK Factory (8 weeks and 100TBY)
>3. Construct HMK factory in Darlesia (16 weeks and 200TBY)
>4. Construct AA factories in Darlesia (16 weeks and 200TBY)
>5. Construct MMK factory (8 weeks and 100TBY)
>6. Research new designs or improvements to current ones
>>
>>32341412
No, that's just the fixed cost for running the factory. The 10 TBY is a marginal cost
>>
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>>32341349
>and TBY is the currency per year, so the factory would take 10 TB per year.
Missed this. No, a TBY is just how much money it takes to feed one thousand people for a year. It's not like Wh but more like a million dollars expressed in terms of food.
>>
>>32341448
>1
>2
Machinist
>1. Repair the civilian factories in Darlesia (will be required if you take the Termina region)
>5
>4
>>
>>32341349
if you are correct than producing at max rate is a mere 55TBY
10% of our SUPRLUS income and 3% of our yearly budget. In that case we should produce at 100% full steam on all factories, as well as build new ones!

Also, AA is ridiculously cost effective AND ridiculously high production rate! Also we are the only one in the world that makes it and we can loot the other armor. I say we build more AA factories and have an army with very high AA
>>
>>32341448

BARTOM:
>1

GNOME:
>1

Machinist:
>1
>5
>4
>2
>>
>>32341448
>It's 10TBY for 4 weeks of production.
that didn't answer the question.
Is the currency called TBY
or is the currency TB and the Y means "per year".
>>
>>32341448
>Bartom
>1

>Gnome
>1

>Machinist
>1
>6
>4
>5
>2
>3
>>
>>32341448
For production I reccomend you have the options be "produce until you have X of AA/MMK/HMK, then reassess." where X is being voted on.
>>
>>32341448
>>32341486
>>32341460

I guess it was too good to be true, I stand corrected
>>
>>32341448
1
3
MACHINIST
1
2
5
6
>>
>>32341448
BARTOM VOTE
>1. Leave Bartom to aid reconstruction in Darlesia

GNOME VOTE
>2. Leave Gnome back to help construction in Harrowmont (manors, outer walls)

>MACHINIST VOTE
>1. Repair the civilian factories in Darlesia (will be required if you take the Termina region)
>6. Research new designs or improvements to current ones
>>
>>32341448
BARTOM VOTE:
1
GNOME VOTE:
1
MACHINIST VOTE:
1
1
3
5
6
>>
>>32341448
How long would it take to create a new design on MMK where the extra enhancement is designed to defeat AA fire. Given the cheapness of AA gear, that's probably where people are going to be going in the future.
>>
>>32341448
>3. Send Bartom to construct new walls for Taour
>2. Leave Gnome back to help construction in Harrowmont (manors, outer walls)

>5. Construct MMK factory (8 weeks and 100TBY)
>6. Research new designs or improvements to current ones
>1. Repair the civilian factories in Darlesia (will be required if you take the Termina region)
>3. Construct HMK factory in Darlesia (16 weeks and 200TBY)
>>
>>32341486
thanks for clarifying. in this case I vote we run the AA production and MMK production 24/7.
No HMK or MAA/Archers right now but we can make some as needed in future.

This means military factory costs per year are 360TBY and net us 2400 MMK and 6000 AA per year.
>>
>>32341658

I'm fine with this, that should give us 140ish TBY revenue to play around with.
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>>32341448
Did anyone actually want to prioritize walls in taour? As far as I saw that was the LAST thing people wanted to build there.
With the first one being topside housing
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>>32341677
This year will probably have deficit spending as we should spend some extra on reconstruction
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>>32341703
As it should be.
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>>32341658
Problem there is that front loads our MMK. So the heavy specialists can't be developed for a while longer. Which is a problem when we meet a nation in a war that uses mixed arms.
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>>32341738
>>32341703
luckily with the captured treasury we have a decent surplus of funds
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>>32341703

I'm fine with deficit spending. It's not like we are wasting the money and we have a large treasury to begin with.
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>>32341743
>Problem there is that front loads our MMK.
the MMK are the bread and butter of every army in the world. Each one is worth 5 men at arms.
MMK stands for "medium mage knights', they are the most versatile of troop.
What is wrong with having a lot of them?

>heavy specialists can't be developed for a while longer.
unfortunately HMK is very very expensive and produce very very slowly. Worse, we are lacking in the resources it needs so we need to import them, further increasing cost.
I guess we could potentially deficit spend to both MMK and HMK and AA at full tilt.
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>>32341810

As long as we are judicious in our of HMKs, I think a core army of AAs and MMKs should be sufficient.

I mean, we have those two Knight Orders which are HMK-light anyway
>>
The AA is ridiculously cheap.
I am wondering how our army would look like if we built several more AA factories and built them full tilt.
if we triple the current AA capacity... we would go from 6000 a year to 18000 AA/year
This would make for some very interesting engagements...

Actually, what did our mages have to say about the recovered shield piercing balista bolt we intercepted?
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>>32341938
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>>32341810
It is kind of like filling the army full of nothing but generalists. Useful yeah until someone takes a tank to your army and you realize you don't have many of your own. I do agree with the costs though.

I do think we should start looking into LMK soon. We need to be able to produce a elite core for our armies. MMKs as the line. LMK as the skirmishers and HMK as the line breakers.
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>>32340621
Sarah said something about vitria needing to recover. Does this mean its revenue was higher before the war?
What about darlesia and taour? That is, once the war rebuilding is finished what can we expect our revenue to be?
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>>32341963
>I do think we should start looking into LMK soon. We need to be able to produce a elite core for our armies. MMKs as the line. LMK as the skirmishers and HMK as the line breakers.
You forgot FMK and AA. Also, lines can be broken with mage or FMK bombardment, or by the elementals, or just by throwing in more MMKs.

HMK is nice, but they are slow and expensive and honestly I would prefer we get LMK or FMK first

... can we please rename AA into AMK for Archer Mage Knights?
That way we would have FMK, MMK, LMK, HMK, and AMK
much more neat.
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>>32342055
Nah, AA is more fun.



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