It's for your own good, just like when the guild banned those awful "firearms" that the damn dwarves had conjured up.

Check you privilege martial scum. If you had any idea how hard the world is on us magic user you would understand the need for these policies.
Try reading a bit about the "class hit-die gap" for starters. (Hint: Martial classes get a LOT more than us spellcasters)

>>31805449
Yeah, so hard. It's not like reality bends over and lets you rape it.

>>31805548
Wizards get three HP to the fighter's five on average!

>>31805572
They also probably have some spell that can make them invincible and autokill the fighter meaning those hit points don’t mean squat. If you really cared about equality you'd be an MRA (Martial Rights Activist).

One in every four wizards will die if they take 1d8 damage.

>>31805548
Deigning to respond to a troll:
You need Improved Grapple to rape someone. Such feats are always found with martialscum classes, never with spellcasters! Go educate yourself a bit please.

>>31805383
They didn't light your arms on fire unless you said the magic words, they aren't that dangerous.

Evard's Black Tentacles? Tanglevine?

You just call your grapples fancy names.

And how about all those spells designed to make a target helpless?

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>>31805618
Maybe if you weren't dressed like this you wouldn't have taken damage.

>>31805613
MRA's just want to perpetuate traditional class roles where spellcasters have to stay in the background and provide support to the big, strong martial classes nobly "protecting" the poor inferior spellcasters. Take your hate speech somewhere else.

>>31805656
So you're blaming the physically fit for your mutating?

You would be a Freudian Field Day.

>>31805656
But I suppose it's not your fault that you're a Tenser Touting Militant. You make me sick as a spellcaster.

>>31805644
>Maybe if you weren't dressed like this you wouldn't have taken damage.
>Sorceress shaming

Seriously? People should be allowed to go dungeoneering without having to hide themselves beneath layer upon layer of metal.

Do you think anyone chooses to dress that way. Its the martializy forzing people to dress like that because apparently spellcasters arent "allowed" by society to be able to cast magic AND dress in plate.

>>31805656
>>31805727
This is why no one takes you seriously. You want to fight with the martials, but refuse to wear any armour.

>>31805727
It's your own damned rules and the fickle nature of your oh so great spells that do it! If you're going to put on some plate, at least have the sense to brush up on still spell modifiers.

Are you really that poorly studied? Did you flunk out of Spells and Rituals 101?

This is the problem with today's spellcasters, they all want their instant power up. They have no finesse.

Bunch of privileged heathens.

>>31805702
Sounds like you got a bad case of Internalized Martiality. Theres nothing wrong with promoting equality of classes

>>31805771
Then you best give us all your spells in the form of nifty trinkets and appropriately scaled magic weapons.

Equality means both sides are on the same level.

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>>31805727
Yeah and I should be able to walk through Hell itself without being sued by a Devil. Maybe if you spent less time bitching about your skin getting lacerated on every corner you could learn how to cast in armor like I did.

>>31805798
Umm that means I have to spend money and EXP, putting me levels behind you. That's not equality, that's oppression.

>>31805824
Oh, don't give me that. We all know that you have a demiplane set up for doing -exactly- that.

It's always the same with you spellcasters.

'Oh, oh, I can be a big help too!'

'Alright, help me out with this in an area in which I'm lacking'

'OH SO THAT'S ALL I AM TO YOU?'

Get over yourself. I could find a caster ten times better to do your job for half the price. This is a service to you, not the other way around.

>>31805756
Nobody wants to fight with the martials. Martial Culture is the probem, not the solution.

>>31805824
Okay then, wizards can get more experience per encounter since money is no object, but experience is.

>>31805798
>>31805870
You think we spellcasters should support you not only in combat but also provide for you economically? How would more oppression help anyone? Read up about the class hit-die gap before you respond plz.

>>31805914
Too late, already found a 10/10 max stats Wizard to make my sword -and- armor. She's also a complete bro.

Get mad, non-optimized trash.

>>31805914
Consider it payment for having to climb to your comfy throne on the backs of martials.

>>31805990
Might want to conjure yourself some greater wound salve for that one.

>>31805945
Your wizard is a class traitor.

>>31806018
Can't hear you over the sound of her Glorious Cacophony...

...I might have made a mistake.

>>31805765
>>31805802
>>31805863
See this is the problem.
Do any of you believe its easy being a spellcaster. Being forced to settle for a THIRD of the hitpoints of a barbarian, being forced to always hide in the back providing "support" for the glory-hogging heroes, being told that you can only wear robes because artifical social constructs says so?

Just watch any sword and sorcery movie. The hero is always the sword swinging muscleman. The mage is at best the supporting "token mage" or at worst the villain that must be stopped from having agency.

>>31806052
Movies are made to appeal to martials, if you want something that appeals to wizards, go read Harry Potter. Get back in the library and write me a poem.

>>31806052
It's because of the martial class that your job is easier. The School of Hard Knocks is intentionally devoid of spellcasters because all the spellcasters that might have learned that way? Guess what? They're dead!

All the innovators paved the way so you people could shit all over their hard work with this. Mordenkainen? Blackcloak? Merlin? All of them a hundred times the caster you'll be with your gimme-gimme-gimme attitude.

>using teleporter, anytime

enjoy dying

It's telling that the first caster President had to be a multiclass, because full casters are so wrapped up in self-pity they couldn't do it themselves.

>>31806052
>He's never seen a movie with a rampaging Barbarian horde.

>B-but Barbarian classism!

Barbarians have contributed nothing to society by definition, why do they still exist.

>>31806121
wait, this is a fantasy setting, not scifi one. forgtet what I said here

>>31806160
You say that right up until one keeps one of your psycho spellcasting brethren at bay. Go right ahead and yuk it up, then claim 'superiority' because you don't have to dirty your feet.

The only thing worse than a spellcaster is one that refuses to acknowledge they're acting like the monster they really are.

>>31806094
Movies should not only appeal to martials. Loads of spellcasters love movies but are put off by the traditional class roles and martializy promoted by them.

We just haaaave to settle for Harry Potter, that accidentally just happen to heavily promote traditional wizard roles (robe wearing, magic wands, academic setting, need of a big strong Hagrid to lift all the heavy boxes).

>>31806121
>imblying you didn't die when you slept last night

>>31806217
Oooh, I get it. So you want more like that hack Rhonin, or maybe Jaina?

>>31805332
Literally pointless. Serves only to inconvenience people.

>>31806160
Barbarians are the ultimate martial power fantasy. Loads of hit die, huge weapons, always at the front of the fighting. Sure occasionaly they might be given the antagonist role but if so you can be sure they have some robe wearing warlock providing them with support so that they can demonstrate that they cant handle the martial hero in a straight fight.

>>31806203
Yeah, I'm sure the fur and animal shit armor they've got will keep then up after a fireball.

Stupid fucking barbaggers.

>>31806332
There it is. That superiority complex again. The world through your eyes must be -such- an oppressive place from your lofty perch.

>>31806256
I dont know who those people are. I dont actually watch martial movies because they're kinda lame but that dosent mean I cant tell how offensive they are to us spellcasters.

>>31806363
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPIu3sDkEw

>>31805332
they just want to charge you for one of those new storing rings that can hold your sword during transport. fucking jew wizards

>>31806412
See>>31805449

The world is not fair to us magic users and its a good thing that the government actually takes steps to address that inequality.

>>31806454
Not fair until you do something about it. But that would require you to do -more- than sit around, shoveling Mana Cakes down your gob. How -dare- we expect you to actually cast to pull your weight! We are just such hard slavedrivers, aren't we?

>>31806361
You're right. This ivory tower is nice right now. Only bad part is when the we get a whiff of the unwashed martials below :^)

Im happy with the progress the wizard guild has made in promoting equal treatment of spellcasters and martialscum this dosent change the fundamental flaws of the government.

Remember, our "brave" king Conan is a clear example of the martializy. He cant cast a SINGLE cantrip because thats apparently beneath him. Im not one of those cnspiracy theorists that claim he spent decades roaming the land murdering innocent spellcasters for no good reason but I still aknowledge that he's part of the problem.

>>31806545
You should permanency a gust of wind spell to keep that from happen.

Or maybe you're worried about floating off as that melon of yours swells like a, big surprise, hot air balloon?

>>31806494
Good job not addressing any of my points martialscum.
Go try being a level one wizard that need to hide from cats because society gives all the hid die to the martials. Just try it for one single day.

>>31806363

Literally worse than Saruman.

>>31806600

Martials know how to live their lives so that when they walk down the street, they're not afraid of taking any damage. If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

>>31806600
You know what I did? I handled it like a person that didn't use intelligence as their dump stat.

I set up a trap, caught the cat, and made it my familiar.

Just because you insisted on pumping too many points into strength and dexterity doesn't make me the bad guy.

Sincerely, Elf Wizard

>>31806654
Saruman is the ultimate wizard-face stereotype.
He wear nothing but big fancy robes, even with all his spells he fails to kill a single of the martial heroes (the only one he ever gets close to hurting just so happen to be another spellcaster, perpetuating the stereotype that wizards can never take on fighters in a fair fight) and needs his martials to do everything for him.

>>31806600
>Complains about 1/3 Hit Die of martials at level 1.
>Completely ignores the fact that casters get unlimited cosmic power after level 6.

It's like I'm really back at college.

>using teleportation at all

Teleportation is literally a wizard slicing you into tiny pieces and reassembling them somewhere else. How can you know that he won't reassemble certain brain cells differently to make you think stuff they want you to think? One day you might find yourself thinking that being an orc is ok. Maybe you'll even vote for an orc in the next elections (if you are living in a republic and not a kingdom).

>>31806772

So wizards are all a part of the orc agenda?

>>31806697
Martials dont need to live in fear because they gets loads of hit die from society for free, unlike us spellcasters. You should really check that privilege before it grows out of control.
>>31806697
While the Internalized Martializy is strong here you still proves my point. A fighter can stroll anywhere without fear, a wizard needs to hide behind traps and preparations every step of the way.
>>31806759
Those so called "high level casters" are almost unheard of, furthermore, most of them gets forced to serve as questgivers for all the up-and-coming martials. See the support function role?

>>31806881
Have you tried not kicking every cat you see? Wisdom must have been a dump stat too.

:3

>>31806829
They want to interbreed humans with orcs to create a dumber race that they can rule easily. Notice how "half-orc" has been included as a valid race in most demographic researches recently?

>>31806772
>>31806829
Yes, because no orc should be allowed to have the same rights as a PC, and if an orc accomplishes anything its because he was put there by wizards. Orcs as unwitting tools, wizards delegated to the support role, martializy rulez!

>>31806881
I bet the Gnomes are behind this Casterism.

>>31806881

It doesn't matter at all because being a caster is a choice. There are even camps for people who say they were "born" with their power (if that's true, why did it only show up at puberty?) to teach them martial prowess like how to wear armor, swing a sword, and earn bonus feats.

I have no sympathy for someone who deliberately chooses to be something then whines that they don't have what I have.

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>>31806881
>Quest-givers
>Sending out men to do your bidding is oppression.
>Being sent into the meatgrinder is a dearly held privilege.

Yeah, no.

>>31806919
Have you ever tried strolling down an alley and getting jumped by a pack of cats bcause the DM thought it would be funny to force a spellcaster into a martial encounter?

>>31807036
Oh, so now you blame god for your problems?

>>31806829
>>31806963
Research shows that 78% of evil wizards who try to take over the world include a high number of orcs in their evil army of doom. (The rest are necromancers who use undead instead)

Wake up sheeple. Drink the red potion.

>>31806963

I think the census actually says human (not Orc) now.

I've never had to say (not Elf) before, what makes these Orcs so special? They just want to take our gold.

>>31807011
Yeah right, multi-classers will never know what it's like to have to have a single d4 hit die. They will never be true spellcasters.

>>31807119
Wizards don't just want your gold. They want to take your very life energy to fuel bigger spells.

It's the dwarves who want your gold. (Ever seen the price on those "masterwork" weapons recently? Guess which race produces most "masterwork" weapons? Yeah, dwarves)

>>31807047
Are you claiming the martializy is divinely ordained now? You disgust me!
Are you so filled with priviledge that you cant see it? Martials have ufair advantages from day 1 and it needs to be addressed.

>>31806772
>>31806829

Umies say bad things. We orcs good as umies, elvs and dorfs. No thing as orc-genda. Our tribes live happy, you all time angry see tread.

>>31807141

You know, the majority of people in the world have d4 hit dice and no spells. Yet you have a persecution complex because you can only look up, not down and see how good you really have it.

>>31807195
Says the one with ALL the hit die...

>>31807014
>Forced into a passive supportive role by social norms
>Having to give gold away as "quest rewards" to pay for people to oppress you

Btw, young low level spellcasters also have to go into that meatgrinder.

>>31807313
You just sleep your way through the meatgrinder, or entangling vines, or any of the dozens of low level save-or-sucks. I mean you even take the place of poor rogues with knock. I mean seriously, you're just a caster supremacist.

>>31806145
I'm sick of people hating Multi-Class people! The president was a multi-class but she identified as a Spellcaster. Don't be so insensitive about how people see themselves. I thought that once she got into office it would finally be normal and this anger would go away. But NO! The only mistake she made was not passing a law that would require all people like you to be put in jail. You CIS-CLASS FREAK.

Speaking as a multi-class who identifies as a martial.

>>31807060
Interesting that your research only focuses on "evil wizards" Do you notice that this draws corrolation between evil and wizard? Implying that a wizard that breaks social norms is evil by default? Notice the oppression and martial privilege here? How about some research on good wizards wanting to take over the world? Or some research on orcs in service of evil martials?

>>31807313
>Paying for services rendered is oppression.

>Ignoring non-caster quest givers like guard captains and bartenders.

>>31807429
The martializy huts martials too. Thats why we all need to work together to bring it down.

>>31807195
As a wizard I have spent YEARS of my life studying and learning and experimenting. Why should I have the same hit dice as someone who spent all those years working only a few weeks a year and slacking out and drinking beer and fucking village girls?

>>31807374
Sleeping through the meatgrinder with only d4? Very funny. Haha.

>>31807393
Evil martials also make heavy use of orcs. Notice the pattern between "evil" and "orc"?

I don't remember many good wizards that tried to take over the world.

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ITT: Social Justice Wizards
>mfw

>>31807384
>Identify as a martial.

Now you're just going out of your way to oppress casters. It disgusts me how you can normalize this when so many wizards feel they need to multiclass for weapon proficiencies.

>>31807537
Because the martializy labels any spellcaster trying to break away from social norms as "evil" in order to force them into traditional passive support roles.

>>31807531
>Not knowing what the sleep spell is.

You're a terrible wizard.

>>31807393
>Or some research on orcs in service of evil martials?

Oh sure, the scary orc stereotype. Do you know the conditions some orcs live in nowadays? Not to mention simply being an orc is a death sentence in many towns and cities? It amazes me how you spellcasters can go on about how oppressed you are and then go spewing shit about how orcs are evil.

>>31807492

>As a fighter I have spent YEARS of my life working and pushing and experimenting. Why should I have the same hit dice as someone who spent all those years working only a hour a day and reading and and daydreaming about fucking village girls??

>>31807573
Internalized martial culture is the probem here. This individual is a victim of this phenomena and you should support him, not guilt trip him.

>>31807638
Orcs are heavily victimized by Martial Culture as well, always being cast in the image of the raider or xp source. We spellcasters are just as much a victim of this as you are. Thats why we need to remind the martials of their hit die privilege.

>>31807492
>lazing about playing card games with other spellcaster elitist, having all their meals and needs looked after

Compared to...

>Up every morning at dawn for unit marching, battle royals and equipment donning drills. Having to hunt our own meals, working out 2-3 times a week for our endurance and strength.

By the time we're adventuring we've earned those hit points!

>>31807653
>a hour a day and reading

Yeah, try 20 hours a day. Holding powers arcane in the palm of your hands is no easy task you know. If you read the shit I studied regularly when I was 12, you'd go insane.

Just keep swinging your slab of metal, meatshield.

>>31807736
And the caster supremacy comes out.

>>31807653

Barbarians get more hit dice than casters, and they literally cannot read at all.

And you are really selling casters short on how much work it takes to become a wizard. It may not be physical labor, but it is still goddamn work.
If a martial tries to use a sword without being good at it, he either misses or, at worst, hits himself (which his awesome hit dice mean is almost never a real threat).

If a wizard tries to cast a spell he has not properly studied? He could blow up the whole building he is in, or make it start raining frogs, or turn himself into something horrible. It takes a much greater time investment than anything martials ever learn to do, because the risk if you do anything wrong is much, much higher.

And what do we get in return? "Wizard, please identify my treasure". "Wizard, stop reading and come help me kill my enemies". "Wizard, give up your experience so you can craft me that magic sword I want". "Wizard, stop talking to dead people because I have an innate distrust of magic I don't understand, which is virtually ALL MAGIC".

Fucking martials.

>>31807623
I find it facinating that you go round telling spellcasters what spells they should prepare. Not only do you want us to be your obedient little supporter hiding behind you, you even want to dictate what spells we should prepare! Your Privilege, check it.
Also, undead, golems etc. Sleep is only useful in a few select situations.

>>31807789
Plz no buzzwords martialscum. We're trying to educate you for your own benefit and you are creating a hostile environment.
#killallmartials

>>31807492

Because you get other benefits. Affirmative Action doesn't let fighters into parties; they have to compete with barbarians, monks, paladins, and even certain Druids. Meanwhile, a spot is reserved for a wizard or sorcerer that I can never have.

Why do we even have martials when we can summon our own meatshields anyway?

Oh, that's right. Some people are too dumb to cast spells so they become martials instead.

>>31807803
>A catastrophic wizard malfunction means everyone dies.

So your saying you need more regulations to prevent this?

>>31807809
>Not reading my title.

I'm a fucking Incarnate you pleb, I control the soulstuff of the universe and I still get shit on by your caster supremacy and tier lists.

>>31807899
Maybe it's because we do most work in a party while you fighters just stand in the frontline, let your shield and armor take the hits, run crying to the cleric when you actually take a real hit and then claim equal share of treasure.

>>31807981
Precicely. We spellcasters get forced into the inglorious support role, do most of the actual work and then get shat on because martials think the world revolve around them and their hit die.

>>31807936
>Bohoo. Wizards are breaking free or imposed martial-centric culture.

Just because we spellcasters are starting to go our own ways and do things you can't control dosent mean you have the right to oppress us with regulations.
If anything the state should implement regulations making sure we wizards get the equal rights we deserve.

>>31808052

So if you're so great, why aren't you in charge? Oh right, society is built on the backs of Martials. Casters can only survive in a culture of leisure where they can live off the fat of society built by Martials, where social systems allow them to exist. Have you noticed there are no wizard-only societies? That's because nature selected against them.

Rogue here.

Fuck all of you. Seriously.

Fuck.

You.

>>31807943
If you're a spellcaster then you should be fighting for the rights of spellcasters, not pushing for spellcaster shaming. If you could recognize your own internalized Martial Culture then it would be to your own benefit.

>>31808190

Go back home and get rich in your tax-exempt casino, roguescum.

>>31808170
>Martials use Martial Culture to oppress spellcasters.
>Then because spellcasters are oppressed they assume the oppression is natural

Educate yourself please. A spellcaster can do anything a martial can do and do it better. The problem is that martializy is keeping us down to enforce hot die privilege. Yes, a magocrazy would be the best form of government but martials are so mired in their own delusions that they refuse to accept that they are the oppressors.

>>31808218
My rights are secured. I can do things people don't even believe. I get a D6 Hitdie and my power is derived from my own Constitution. But guess what? I'm considered INFERIOR to you. Your divisive tier lists and batman wizards and CoDzillas make me and my kind into third-class citizens. So fuck you, fuck your caster supremacy, I'm sticking with the other low-tier classes and denying your pity party.

>>31808190
>Bohoo my d6 is less than the d10
>Meanwhile we spellcasters are stuck with our d4

You are just as much a part of the problem.

>>31805572
3/5ths law anyone?

Most of you should be purged in the glory of god, and the rest should join the paladins.
Sign up today, and fight the heretics and evil for your god!
Recruitment office at the crossing between sunset and smiteful.

>>31808340
>transcaster believes he got it worse than ciscasters because Martial Culture pushes anti trans norms.
>Blames ciscasters for it
Martial Culture is the problem here. You need to direct your rage towards those that deserve it.

>>31808295

>Casters sit on their asses while Martials build modern society.
>Casters wonder why they didn't build society
>It must be everyone else's fault!

>Be Paladin/Cavalier
>Not allowed to teleport my horse and my self at the same time
>Have to pay double, once for myself and again for my steed
I pray for the patience to deal with this.

>>31808478
See >>31807981 >>31808052
Spellcasters do most of the actual work, the martials benefit from it and delude themseves into believing its their own accomplishments.

#killallmartials

>>31808410
Take your intolerant Martial Culture Bias somewhere else please.
Most paladins are just repressed clerics anyway, pushing themselves into martial roles because of Martial Culture

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>>31808442
>Phenomenal Cosmic Power
>Labels other classes as inferior with their tier lists.
>WAAAAH THE MARTIALS HAVE MORE HEALTH SO THEY MUST BE OPPRESSING ME!!!

How does it feel to live in the Ivory Tower?

>>31808343
>4 point deficit
>lol suck it up

>Add 2 more and suddenly its like the tarrasque shoved his spiny dick up your ass

Yeah, poor, poor casters who can do almost everything better than me.

>>31808599
you just couldn't make the cut, could you?

>>31808611
Rogues benefit far more from Martial Culture than we spellcasters do. You get to take active roles as scouts and backstabbers while we have to be passive objects in need of a strong martial to protect them.
Also you get loads of stealth and some armor so your lack of hit die is mostly not relevant anyway.

The casters posting in this thread are completely fucking mental.

Not only do they fail to recognize the Quadratic Wizard Linear Fighter problem but they're basing value on a metric that they already supercede. Hit dice for wizards are completely unnecessary when those same wizards go and turn themselves into a bahgrest and snack on goblins to gain additional HP. You'd think that gaining literally hundreds of ways to prevent their hitpoints from being touched per day would make wizards less greedy for the hit dice that martials have had to (gasp) actually physically exercise their bodies to gain. Martials actually need their hit-dice, to casters? It would just be a pretty decoration that makes the already powerful even more powerful. All of this militant casterism is just a display of the greed inherent to following the path of the spell-slinger. You people make me sick. Go back to chain-gating Djinni and wish yourself up some tissues so you can cry more.

>>31808605
Its more than just hit die inequality.
Martials can use all the armor they want without being penalized by cultural norms, they get all the active party roles and they can walk home at night without being worried about getting jumped by a cat. Cat Culture is a serious problems in our cities nowadays.

>>31808729
What are you doing to those poor cats?!

>>31808620
The "cut" you talk about bases itself exclusivey on martial centic values. I want nothing of it.

>>31808746
>Cat apologist....

So edgy!

>>31808766
Actually, around 60% of our order uses holy spells. I guess it's just you.

>>31808729
You know who else uses armor and can cast? Literally everyone who isn't a Wizard or a Sorcerer. Clerics, Druids hell even I get to wear a nice little breastplate. And why the fuck do you care, you get Mage Armor and Shield unless you decided to give up Abjuration and Conjuration. I mean what the fuck did you even give up and what is your specialty?

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>>31808599
My father was a paladin as his father was before him. I follow the path to glory tread by heroes. Heretics be hating.

>>31808719
....
Let me try this again.
You martials get free hit die due to social norms from level 1 (aka, before you have attained any exp or merit at all). We spellcasters constantly need to work to find ways around our hit die deficiency. This. Is. Not. Fair.

>>31808829
If you absolutely need to know Im a ciswizard that majored in class-studies. But thats not relevant. What is relevant is that we spellcasters get penalized by social constructs that gives martial classes unfair privileges.

White Mana was here
Red and Green are bro tier
Black has hot chicks
Blue need not apply
unless you are Jhoira, then you can apply

>>31808766
Stop hoping for the world to hold your hand while you grasp for the only things that are given to those who have other specialties than you. I bet you were furious when you were disqualified from the cooking contest for using prestidigitation on a piece of bread to make it taste like veal.

>>31808791
>Cat abuser...

Why do you want to kill housecats in a fistfight anyway?

>>31808856
>Martials

How can you be a caster if you fail so badly at reading comprehension?

Let's run through a scenario. The most deficient wizard with (somehow) 1 HP at level one, and the most tough Barbarian with 16 HP at level one. With 18 Intelligence, as we presume the Barbarian has 18 Constitution, the Barbarian will be affected by the Sleep spell 75% of the time, at which point the wizard could bludgeon him to death at leasure with Magic Missiles. The end.

>>31805332
Remember when the Desert Wizards completely flattened Sauron AND Sauromans towers with one teleport attack?

It was a pretty good day for the majority of Middle Earth and everyone laughed but those poor Orks were pretty upset.

>>31808841
So you admit you are bound by cultural norms and tradition pushed on you by your parents... Also notice how you draw a connection between paladins (a class with loads of martial privilege) and heroes? Please enlighten yourself. There is nothing martial about being a hero. Spellcasters can be heroes to if they desire

>>31808918
You're not getting the point, what is your specialization and banned schools? I'm guessing you banned Abjuration and Transmutation and are an Illusionist because of your doublespeak.

>>31808918
>Complains about not being able to don armor
>Is able to don invisible armor which is perfectly weightless and considerably more powerful
>Decides that the aforementioned isn't relevant because rampant martial-envy.

You're sounding like a class traitor.

>>31808997
An illusionist would be capable at doublespeak. A diviner would at least be able to have seen this coming. A transmuter can't keep himself straight from one minute to the next, so maybe that. If he were a conjurer, then he'd just have somebody else fight his battle for him, but since really the argument is dead-- he might just be a necromancer.

>>31808997
None of your business. My personal life is not relevant to the problems posed by Martial Culture.

>>31809052
What about armorless martials? That's their personal life, why are you bringing it up here? This reeks of monk-and-barbarian oppression.

>>31808918
>class-studies

Yeah, that's totally relevant. Instead of majoring in evocation or transmutation, all you spellcasters are majoring in class-studies and blame martials when you can't find a party role.

>>31809004
Martials can stroll around in their armor all day and society dosent take away any of their feats or base attack. Meanwhile we spellcasters need to use our few spellslots to get protection for our d4 (see the hit die inequality here?)
You sound like a casterhater.

>>31808988
I've got a magus and a wizard as companions who are trying to be as noble as I am. I've even taken a poor young sorceress on as a squire so she can see The Light. What caster tier scum would help another out like that?

>>31809090

Oh please, everybody knows monks aren't real people.

>>31809052

I have problems because society.
>Tell us what problems you, specifically, are having.
No, that's not relevant.
>If you are a member of a group, how are your problems not relevant?
Stop oppressing me!

>>31808856
....
Let me try this again
You Spellcasters get free spells from level 1 (aka, before you have attained any exp or merit at all). We martials constantly need to work to find ways around our magic deficiency. This. Is. Not. Fair.

>>31809127
Notice how you talk about wanting them to be as "noble as you are", implying that they should aspire to your standards of martial-centric worldview.
You are part of the problem here. You are not helping anyone.

>>31809169

You don't even have a worldview except "Martials are baaaaaaad". Maybe if you had one you could aspire to it instead of just whining about how society doesn't give you everything for free.

>>31809166
Martial Culture penalizes martials too. It is good you aknowledge your victimhood but the oppressors are not us spellcasters, its the martializy

level 0 commoner here

man fuck y'all, you'se a bunch of whiny bitches

do you know how many cats i have to walk by each day

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>>31809169
My squires HD says otherwise, plus she wears that nice plate armor and shield. She can even learn to cast spells again when she trains enough!

>>31809205
Cat Culture is a serious problem in modern society that the martials refuses to knowledge because it would make them realize their privilege.

>>31809204
That's funny to say when the big three caster classes, Clerics, Druids and Wizards, oppress everyone else, from the sorcerer to the commoner. YOU ARE THE 1% YA DINGUS.

>>31809204

Well, to quote Syndromicus, the best example of a man who actually worked to overcome his situation instead of whining about it in class-studies:
If everyone is being oppressed, no one will be.

>>31809144
Martial Culture is a huge problem that victimizes spellcasters all over the world. My personal life is not needed to see this, do you understand that?

>>31809119
OH WOW. OKAY.

Let's air out our dirty laundry, shall we? Ever heard of a social study called the Quadratic Wizard? It goes to show us exactly how many spell slots wizards gain, where each level martials only gain one attack bonus per level. How is that fair? We should be getting spells!

>>31809132
Get out.

>>31809169
The problem is the greed of casters, wanting everything and giving nothing. Do you know how much it costs to buy that magic weapon a martial /needs/ in order to be considered "passable" at higher levels? How many artificers take that gold and snigger incoherently at the twelve more carbon copies of the weapon they can now make with that gold?

>>31809204
This is a fallacy, an attempt to sow doubt and spread a false dichtomy.

>>31809251
You abuse animals and leave the commoners to deal with the negative behavior that your abuse has born in them. Ever heard of Magebred animals? I have!

>>31809251

If it weren't for cats, the death rate would be even higher from rat swarms. They don't even need to roll to hit.

>>31809342
Cat Culture, Rat Culture. Call it what you want but its still a problem that martials don't have to deal with

>>31809323

No, because nobody will actually say what those issues are. Everyone like you clams up and refuses to admit that they don't actually have any problems, they just want to complain until society gives them even more.

Magus here, what the fuck are "Martials" and "Spellcasters"? You mean most people can't hit things with a sword while casting?

I was told for the longest time that I had to act and cast spells a certain way, but I'm through with pretending to be something I'm not. I'm having the ritual done in a few days and becoming undead. No more hit-die gap, and you get damage reduction that's better than plate IMO. It's time to step up, just because you were BORN alive doesn't mean that's WHO YOU ARE, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

>>31809382
>implying you didn't just take a level of fighter and wizard each

fuckin' trans-levelers JUST MAKE UP YOUR MIND YOU'RE EITHER A MARTIAL OR A SPELLCASTER

>>31809410

Transliving is a sin against all the gods.

>>31809378
Hit die inequality, harmful class roles that glorifies the martials, Cat Culture. I could go on but you should notice a trend.
>>31809132
Your orientalism is offensive, stop it!

>>31809308
>The best example of a lunatic-voyeur intent on suppressing the rights of an entire plane

>>31809323
Before someone calls you a hero who's spoken out against sorcerer shaming, I'd like to point out to everyone that you're trying to hide facts relevant to determining if you're suffering because you're a rampant incompetent or if it's because you're a caster.

>>31809377
Martials are the ONLY vermin-roundup in cities. For most of them, and even a few soulknives it's the only way of making any income with our time at lower levels. Wizards spend all of their early time making alchemical poisons and selling them for inflated values which make our ratting nigh impossible in a city with a high concentration of casters.

>>31809410
LICH. LICH ALERT. MODS. (The ritual to lichhood literally involves slaying a senior citizen and a virgin child in cold blood, my party and I stopped a lich from ascending not a few weeks ago)

>>31809437
Let the Gish-envy rest.

>>31809410
Dude, as somebody who has tried Necrocarnum in the past, don't go down that road. It will fuck you up.

>>31809445
>Hit die inequality
Circumvented by protective spells wizards would practice anyway (Check Vampiric Touch)
>Harmful class roles that glorifies the martials
Out-and-out not true, I've had to carry more than one wizard in a litter in my time because they refused to mount a horse.
>Cat Culture
Cats are animals, are you insane? Stop abusing cats, stop getting scratches that get infected. Cats don't even attack larger predators, they run away after the initial thrashing.

>>31809460
You're not fooling me to divulge my personal information so that you can harass me in real life. Just go out your door, talk to a spellcaster and hear his problems, this world would be a better place if people would be wiling to listen to spellcasters

>>31809445

Give me an example of one time you have been inconvenienced by any of those things. You won't, though, because you haven't; you have just attached yourself to a mini-culture and refuse to admit you're wrong.

>>31809549
The world would be a better place if spellcasters didn't think every willing ear was a soapbox to complain about their life stories.

Also see >>31809552

>>31808841
I will have you know that it is people like you who caused me to begin practicing necromancy. Honestly, equating Paladins with heroes? I don't buy it.

Necromancers can be heroes too; not everyone can be a walking army like most of you; some people need armies of their own.

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This is what I was wearing. Go ahead, tell me I deserved it! I dare you!

>>31809552
You've never had fighters tell you "Cast that spell, cast this spell! Why dont you read this ancient tome? Stay to the rear, I'll aggro. Why should you get that loot, its not like you need a magic sword?" You have no idea what I've been through!

>>31809583
Raising the dead comes with a WHOLE LOT of ethical issues. It's why we have so many policies for it. Mostly it's agreed that so long as you're not turning otherwise peaceful civilizations into undead and accepting those who were dead when you found them, you're fine. Better if you can get the acceptance of the family. I'm not with the Lawful Goods on their undead-fear, but I'm not with the Chaotic Evils on their undead-boners either. I did date a Necropolitan once though.

>>31809599
What happened to you?

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>>31809656

>>31809656
I've had an order of paladins hound me across three countries for raising a couple undead.

Seriously, guys, they were dead when I found them! Did they not see the huge tree covered in corpses and the eldritch runes inscribing an ancient lich's name covering the ground?

>>31809650
Check your privilege before you even START talking about loot. How many times have those same fighters stepped in front of a rampaging threat/arrow/sword/dagger/poisoned dart/etc. for you, and you haven't even had the decency to thank them? If you're going to complain about being mistreated by a martial (And not casting Baleful Polymorph because so many transmuters have no fucking moral godsdamn compass), you need to at least own up to what you yourself does.

>>31809681
And what did you do to the cat?

>>31809703
I was with you until you mentioned the lich. I can see how... a martial not exactly well versed in the nuances of arcane naming would not be able to tell by the subtle signs that the tree covered in corpses was not, in fact... yours. Terribly sorry about that, chief.

>>31809656

No necromancy, no opinion. It's ludicrous that a bunch of good aligned martials think they can spellcasters what they can and can't do with their magic. Zombies can't even think, dso I have no idea why'd you'd be against any of this anyway.

>>31809743
>Cat aplogist

Stop being so edgy! Its not funny or cool.

>>31809743
Not him, but one time I was just walking to the store and this giant voice boomed out "YOU'RE ATTACKED BY A PACK OF CATS" and then it just fucking happened. Barely made it out of there alive.

>>31809764
>martials think they can [tell] spellcasters what they can and can't do with their magic.
Casters are not getting a ticket against basic laws such as "Don't murder a guy".

>>31809802
To agitate a non-sentient animal, you'd have to do something other than walk down the road wearing a robe. I'm pretty sure you could get away with walking past a cat wearing nothing at all so long as you don't try to mutate it's bloodline so that it can shoot fireballs from it's asshole or something.

>>31809812
That literally sounds like a caster was fucking you over. Martials don't make packs of cats appear as well as conjurers can.

>>31809712
So you aknowledge that spellcasters get put into oppresive passive supporter roles that need to be protected by the big strong martials and then you claim I should be grateful for it. You have a clear case of casterhate.
>>31809812
Cat Culture is a rampant problem. Its made even worse by martials accusing the victims of having provoked it and thus deserving it.

>>31809841
>The cat is the actual victim here! If a cat attacked you then you must have deserved it.

Sorceress shaming... Disgusting. I assume you are a troll as not even a cismartial would say something like that

>>31809743
I got there after them!

>>31809841
Well, undead are, technically brain-dead...

>>31809878
Actually I'm more implying that casters casually abuse martials for their brawn and then pride themselves on their ability to do so, and get angry whenever a martial has the spine to ask for compensation. How many times have you ever uttered the phrases, "You wouldn't understand this artefact's power", or "It's your job to...", or "Bow before the majesty of my superior arcane might! Muahahahaha!!!"

>>31809549

I AM talking to a spellcaster, and they won't provide any examples of actual oppression. You're just punting the issue to another spellcaster on the street - first of all, why should he be forced to divulge his private issues if you are not? Sounds like you're oppressing him invasively.

>>31809878

Did it ever occur to you that most casters are happier being in a support role where they aren't likely to get stabbed as often as Martials are? Who are you to speak for them?

>>31809958
You are trying to distract everyone from the real issues here. Martial Culture oppresses martials as well as spellcasters and this needs to be adressed.

>>31810007
See >>31809650
Martial Culture is rampant in everyday life. You are proving it right now, you think you can tell me what to just because you have the privileged position

>>31810062

Those are made up hypotheticals. Give me an actual anecdote where any of that ever happened to you.

>>31810051
What do you know about what casters want?
You are talking from the position of a hit die privileged cismartial and have no right to belief you can speak for the desires and wishes of all the casters in the world daily opressed by the system

>>31809937
It's a creature that doesn't have sapience. Do you also blame Door Culture whenever you stub your toe, or Boulder Culture whenever someone is crushed in a landslide? How about Disease Culture for the bajillions of rampaging plagues arresting the countryside that is constantly undergoing negotiations with divine casters to try to stop? Do you know how much trade good and coin goes into the Church (and not out!) to deal with all of these plagues? And what's worse: How many times per day can a cleric heal a man of the plague? How many spellslots is a living family worth to them?

>>31809939
They're only brain-dead after they're dead, is my point.

>>31810062
>thinks that exposing Martial Culture as a myth by addressing the problems is distracting everyone from the "real issues"
>thinks that anything I've argued has been off topic from the "real issues"
>Doesn't supply what the "real issues" are, doesn't care to, says that it's personal and disengages before going back and decrying the ultimately nebulous idea of 'Martial Culture' without ever defining it.

>>31810104
Are you soley entitled to empathy, or the ability to gather information by asking someone how they feel about an issue? God's Hooks, man, Gather Information (Cha) isn't even a class skill for you! Get out!

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>>31810062
As the ruler of a kingdom, I fail to see how my Paladinhood oppresses me or my masses, my army of martials keeps my realm safe from wild monsters, and I personally sponsor many programs to retrain casters into more useful roles for a better tomorrow.

>>31810092
You are just trying to distract everyone from the real issues at hand here. Martial Culture is endemic and needs to be addressed.
You have never experinced being affraid to go out at night because there are cats out there and you know that if you're attacked all the martials will just sorceress-shame you. Attend some class-study lectures to see what those less fortunate have to go through on a daily basis.

>>31810142
You're actually a caster, aren't you?

>>31810142
Which kingdom do you rule, might I ask?

>>31810178
Cats are wild godsdamned animals! Try experimenting on a bear, for chrissake. See if they're less dangerous.

>>31810142
You're claiming to be a paladin. What gives you, a transmartial, the right to decide what roles are useful for casters. They have the right to decide that for themselves!

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>>31810185
A little happening in the River Kingdoms, very progressive.

>>31810181
With the power of faith I can be anything you need me to be

>>31810250
The fact that he claims to be king, actually. Casters are still subjects, no matter what.

>>31810208
Bears in alleyways behinds inns are less of a problem than cats

>>31810266
Cats left alone are less of a problem than wizards.

>>31810261
And what gives a martial the right to rule over caster outside of artifical social constructs like MARTIAL CULTURE! Notice the pattern yet?

>>31810299
>Cat apologist! Casterhater!

Stop trolling, you are just perpetuating harmful social norms.

>>31810258
You wouldn't happen to be in charge of that kingdom that had a small group of paladins search me very thoroughly simply because I was wearing Black Robes, and then arrest me for possession of an amulet similar in make to a common Phylactery, would you?

If so, tell those poor jail guards sorry about the zombie rats. I really had somewhere to be, and didn't have time for holdups.

>>31810302
Kingdoms.
Kingdom.
King.

That's literally treason.

>>31810327
>Animal abuser!

Stop trolling, you are just perpetuating dead pets.

>>31810334
>Caster perpetuating rat culture

Fuck, I should have known this was the fault of goddamn necromancers.

>>31810385
To be fair, I really didn't have the time or resources to use anything else, and I really did have something to do.

At the very least, a real Lich's Phylactery is no longer in his possession. Boy is he in for a surprise when he tries to take over that empire he's had is eyes on.

>>31810353
>This strong independent caster refuses to obey the martializy. Use the state to oppress him!

Also
>Cats as pets.
Your martial privilege is showing

>>31810484
Casters confirmed for having no logical argument

>>31810302
Gunslinger here. What the hell is martial culture and why is everyone so hot and bothered over it? The closest thing I've got to a caster is my +4 force enchanted six shooter. We don't really get the opportunity to learn magic classes in the frontier

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>>31810614
It's the dress wearing nerds getting their panties in a twist over not being able to keep an angry pussy at bay.

sad really.

>>31810104

Actually, I am a caster. I enjoy what I do. However, you automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with you is a martial and an oppressor. You make judgments about people without knowing anything about them and insist it conform to your preexisting world view. In other words, YOU are the classist and the oppressor because you reject any class-role as valid except the one you want.

>>31810178

Tell me about one time where you were ever afraid to go out at night. I'll wait.

>>31810674
That's the nice thing about being a Necromancer; I can take my Meatshields with me.

Well, they may not exactly be MEATshields, but still.

>>31810674
Ooookay ... Shit like this is exactly why I went overseas. To escape the tier system and it's broken sense of balance

>>31810898
>tfw on the continent of Paizo it's even worse
>they just SAY that balance exists there, and don't even try.

>>31809460
I don't know what kind of necromancers you people have met.

Personally, I've been experimenting with animal substitutes for the Ritual Sacrifices. Monkeys would probably work as a suitable enough replacement.

>>31810988
Figured that out a while ago. Trying to find this one place. The sixth world, they call it? Apparently there's no classes there. Must be the promised land