You pay little mind to what the Malorians scowl at you. Part of you knows it is not all their fault for their hostility. Years of warfare changes organic creatures, after all. It is just a shame that they are so influential. You'll hopefully make some meaningful headway with this, however."Words are wind. Let our actions speak and enlighten you of our intentions" You echo simply, to which the aliens do not respond at first, wary of your meaning, you're sure. "Let the UGEI die in vain against our ships. We will take their machines of war and subvert them against them." You simply explain."What sort of claim are you making, alien? Are you not humans, just as they are? Or some other unsavory beast hoping to exploit the lands of those far wiser then you?" The being growls, still hoping to threaten. But you pay him no mind. Now is not the time for words, after all.>Kronos and Fortuna.The two A.I. move in with the bulk of your fleet and engage the enemy ships. They are weak, but so too are your own ships. A furious melee erupts, as your ships launch heavy missile fire into them from afar, only for them to move in, too close to risk opening fire with missiles, and tear into you with Mass Drivers. You cringe as a few of your Cruisers break from the blow, but are comforted when twice as many of their own erupt into flame.
>>31721796>Enemy Ships Destroyed: CR 11, 15 DE>Ally Losses: 4 CR (Note: Including Two Ton Terry, Widow Maker Attack Lost)Kronos growls angrily at the foe's surprise attack-managing to get in past your lines with a lucky bombardment from the Carrier. It uses powerful bombers, apparently. Useful for surgical strikes on powerful enemy targets it seems. You make a note of this and are glad they like the detection ability to find where Kronos or Fortuna's comm signals are from.In the mean time, you wrap your mind around the outer layer of the Carrier's fire wall, and start to break it open like an egg...when suddenly you're assaulted! Thousands of viruses rip through your tendrils, and force you to release the Carrier despite successfully breaking it's outer layer. Your excellent ability allows you to pull away before you're infected, and able to leave the Carrier with a parting gift of your own. It will be delayed next volly, unable to open fire, and unleash that bomber attack again.[Orders, Consciousness Anon?]
>>31721802>Including Two Ton TerryFuckin' Fortuna.
>>31721802Stick our cyber-dick back in the carrier and overwhelm the viruses?
>>31721802Take over the remaining ships except the carrier.Launch boarding parties onto the carrier.
>>31721802I do hope we have the plans to remake that gun, right? but why do i have the feeling this is a also a distraction. we need to wrap this up fast.
>>31721802Unleash our own viruses
>>31721802Ask Fortuna to Illuminate the carrier and its complement.Fighters > Bombers, after all.But seriously, we just need Fortuna's fighters to distract their bombers so we can either board or cyber fuck the Plague Bringer into oblivion.
>>31721802>glad they likelack?
>>31721802So that's at least one of the meanings.Break into the cruisers instead this time, let's infect their network with viruses of our own.And make sure to get some distance against mass-driver equipped ships with any ships that do not have mass-drivers of their own.(Aka, all but the Athena, the old-model Triremes and the Chimeras)Have the chimeras move in close on the carrier and start cutting its landing bays apart with the surgical mass-drivers.
>>31721796With that advantage I feel should should rip and tear into that carrier.
>>31721986Most likely. I type too fast sometimes.
>>31721802fire our own viruses.zombify cruisers and carrier.
>>31721802Ask Kronos to trigger the Cyber defenses on the Carrier, then once they recede assault it ourselves.
>>31722006Well, I would suggest launch boarding parties onto the Carrier.
>>31721983>Fighters > BombersFortuna needs to take care of those bombers.Change cyberattack to cruisers.Get boarding party on-line into their Carrier. Can be robot-only.
>>31722035Ohyeah, good idea.Punch a whole mess of boarding torpedoes into it.At least half of them.
Possible Consensus:>1 Focus on battering through the Carrier's firewall. Now that you know viruses are practically bursting out of the thing, it should be easier to take down.>2 Focus on hacking the remaining Cruisers instead, and just shoot down the Carrier. Not worth the risk>3 Have Fortuna intercept all bombers from the Carrier instead of using them on the enemy forces.>4 Open fire full force, we don't have time for this.>5 Move Chimera and Athena to the front, to take out all Mass Driver ships yourself>6 Launching Boarding Pods towards the Carrier, risk getting them shot down, but allowing you to assault it from the inside.>7 Write in>Note: I should mention that every time you hack, viruses are factored into where they're appropriate. Just wanted to make sure you folks knew I was using them. You can opt to just use viruses and not hack if you don't want to risk that too.>Double Note: It's worth noting the Malorians aren't opening fire on you right now, by the way.>Triple Note: O.S.N served you well with those rolls. He fought somethin' fierce against that viral'plosion.
>>31722219>6 Launching Boarding Pods towards the Carrier, risk getting them shot down, but allowing you to assault it from the inside.>7 Write inHack the remaining ships. The other AI launch boarding parties into the Carrier.
>>31722219Will the boarding pods be robot-only?
>>31722219>>2 Focus on hacking the remaining Cruisers instead, and just shoot down the Carrier. Not worth the risk
>>31722219>>5 Move Chimera and Athena to the front, to take out all Mass Driver ships yourselfis that mutually exclusive with 1?
>>31722219Now is a wonderful oppurtunity to test out the boarding pods.Meanwhile, send in the equivalent of a viral probe. Something to poke at the carrier and trigger its defenses. Then we can move in before it can fire off its suite again.
>>31722219>6 Launching Boarding Pods towards the Carrier, risk getting them shot down, but allowing you to assault it from the inside.and>7 Write inhack the remaining cruisers.
>>31722219>2Didn't you say it wouldn't be sending any bombers this exchange?If it is sending bombers after all,>3otherwise keep them on enemies.>5>6>7Since the ships with mass-drivers have to get in close to fire anyway, fire the boarding pods from those to minimize the time that boarding pods are at risk from point defenses.Also, have the chimeras weapons rake as many point defenses away as they can just before the boarding pods are fired.And give O.S.N. a big hug.
>>31722295You can select some options to combine, but some don't work well with others (for obvious reasons)
>>31722292I think they are. the humans are lined up to deal with Gaia.
>>31722388giving O.S.N. a hug is fine, but i think he should have some more BW allocated to him. he's earned it.
>>31722388>Didn't you say it wouldn't be sending any bombers this exchange?I said that? I don't recall..>>31722219>It seems a big 6, with bits of 5. No hacking, it seems.I am gonna need 3d100
Rolled 29, 34, 19 = 82>>31722483Roll'in
>>31722219>6 Launching Boarding Pods towards the Carrier, risk getting them shot down, but allowing you to assault it from the inside>2 Focus on hacking the remaining Cruisers instead, and just shoot down the Carrier. Not worth the risk
Rolled 39, 3, 87 = 129>>31722483here you go
Rolled 33, 58, 45 = 136>>31722483Roll
>>31722483Huh, why not hack? That is strange.
Rolled 84, 15, 37 = 136>>31722483
Rolled 11, 21, 27 = 59>>31722483Welp
>>31722483You said:>>31721802>able to leave the Carrier with a parting gift of your own. It will be delayed next volly, unable to open fire, and unleash that bomber attack again.
>>31722560No votes for it.
>>31722601Oh yeah, it will be. That's just for when it will be able to attack next, meaning Fortuna has time to prepare.
>>31722608There are 2 votes for it.>>31722388&>>31722528
>>31722608it seemed like an obvious choice to do though.
>>31722608Huh, these two voted for it:>>31722286>>31722365Not enough votes?
>>31722608I'm not>>31722560 or Brutus, so that makes it 2 votes for hacking >2and one general vote in favor of hacking
>>31722696And I wanted to do 1 when I asked if 5 was mutually exclusive with it.but i can change that to t2.
>>31722890Pretty sure we got lucky last time, would rather take care of the cruisers first and let our boarding forces deal with taking over the carrier.>>31722640Any chance we can get a personal example or two of how the droids do inside the ship?(As opposed to just saying "they take x and y and eliminate resistance there")
>>31723000that's why i said change it to 2?or rather, 2 and 6. instead of shooting it down.
>>31723049Fairly sure we can bombard the carrier with boarding torpedoes while annihilating the unhacked cruisers.
>>31723137I rather scope up the remain cruisers through hacking.
>>31722483You dip into your technology reserve. There must be something you could do to assault this Carrier without direct contact...Then it hits you. Boarding Pods. You've been equipping some recently, for when you had a chance to use em, now would be a great time. You calculate the distance between your ship and the Carrier. It's pretty far, you'd need to get a lucky shot to make it...The sound of hissing rockets are familiar, as they push past the enemy line, managing to break through the forces meant for close combat and head towards the Carrier. At least a third of them are shot down in transit, but they make contact with the side of the vessel with a reassuring slam. The portion inside begins to pour your androids (spiderbots, specifically) into the halls, and you pick up comm feeds from the distressed crew."Incoming bogie, we can't shoot em all down.""The hell are those?""Shit, contact made commander, Boarding pods!""What? At that distance? They're crazy!""You hear that? What the hell is that sound?""It sounds like...cockroaches.."The feed starts to get fuzzy as armed men open fire on the droids, and screams echo out. The droids may not kill them all, but you are certainly creating a damn fine distraction.With that in play, you're thankful you have so many ships well equipped to fight in such close range.And by so many, you of course mean Athena, which strong arms the enemy back nearly by itself, many of their shots bouncing off your shields.Sadly, this means they become wise that they can not tear apart Athena, so they aim for your other ships instead.With that, you open up your mind again, attempting to dip into the Cruisers instead, hoping you can hack into them before they are destroyed.
>>31723209Fire and plasma fly as the battle grows more desperate for the UGEI, they are rapidly losing ground, and ships. You suspect they would be easy enough to finish off, if you wanted to. On the other hand, they have that carrier you would not mind adding to your army...>Enemy Ships Captured: 3 CR>Enemy Ships Destroyed: 4 CR, 5 DEU-Ca-LR-1 'Plague Bringer' Carrier (x1)U-Cr-MR-1 Battlecruiser (x2)>Ally Ships Lost: 3 CR, 10 DEU-Ba-CR-0 'Athena' Battleship [Ophion]P-Ca-LR-0 'Apocalypse Now' Carrier [Fortuna]P-Cr-MR-0 'Two Ton Terry' Battlecruiser [Kronos] -1L-Cr-LR-0 'Ark' Battlecruiser [Kronos]GM-Cr-MR-2 'Trireme' Battlecruiser (x3) [Kronos]L-Cr-LR-0 'Cerberus I' Battlecruiser [Hades]GM-Cr-MR-2 'Trireme' Battlecruiser (x5) [Hades]GM-Cr-LR-1 'Catapult' Battlecruiser (x5) [Hades]GM-Cr-MR-1 'Chimera' Battlecruiser (x4) [Hades]GM-E-MR-1 'Pilum' Destroyer x10 [Fortuna]GM-E-B-1 'Soundwave' Broadband FrigateGM-E-B-1 'Blaster' Broadband FrigateGM-E-B-1 Broadband Frigate x2[Orders, Consciousness anon]
Rolled 64, 48 = 112>>31723235Tell Fortuna to destroy the cruisers. Ask for Kronos' assistance in hacking the carrier itself.
>>31723235more boarding pods? and hack the last battlecruisers.we want to be able to dedicate all bandwidth to hacking this fucker next.
>>31723235Flip the remaining CRs, fire more boarding parties and capture the Carrier from the inside out.Have the spider-bot attempt to connect internally and provide a work-around for the virus wall.
>>31723235try again to hack them all! there is only 3 left!
>>31723235fuck, this battle is actually a net LOSS of battlecruisers all in all, unlike the battle at Gaia IV? welp.
>>31723235If I remember correctly, both the Triremes and the Chimeras are equipped with a number of boarding pods themselves.Since they're close-ranged anyway, have them move in and start bombarding the carrier with pods as well at extreme close range.
>>31723322...there's 2 left.we want to hack the plague carrier separately, with all bandwidth forward.since doing it before was awful.
>>31723235Let everyone else deal with the two remaining BS while take take on the Carrier.I want it as much as I want the viruses it contains.
>>31723286>>31723291Also, in combination with these, taunt/demand surrender:"Hello, anyone still alive in the Plague Bringer? If you want to stay alive and not get torn apart by spiders, let me know."
>>31723291>>31723286>>31723354You fired all of your boarding pods in hopes of getting them to the Carrier at such a distance I am afraid Consciousness anon. It was a fair distance away, and it is a very large ship.
>>31723235Take over the two remaining cruisers, try to use them to spread our viruses - especially the ones that weaken firewalls - to the carrier.Oh, and let's try some social hacking by mimicing the voice of the captain of one of the cruisers and use what information we got from the databanks to demand a safe data-port from a random technician inside the carrier, claiming that we have an idea of how to get out of this but that time is short and we need it NOW dammit!
>>31723440well hack the battlecruisers. and then the plague carrier. or all at once if that won't fail completely.
>>31723440Ah, got the impression that we only fired the ones aboard the Athena.(Also thought we'd be moving in close with the mass-driver equipped vessels before we'd fire them)
>>31723440Ok then.Flip the remaining CRs and demand surrender from the Carrier or we either hack them or blow them to kingdom come
>>31723501I would rather hack the carrier.
>>31723526I guess either or.
>>31723469I guess we can try this too
Possible Consensus:>1 Have your A.I. finish off what remains of the enemy fleet, while you start hacking the Carrier once again. You greatly desire to bring that ship into your fold.>2 Hack the remaining cruisers, and the Carrier, prioritizing the Carrier.>3 Hack the remaining Cruisers, and destroy the Carrier, it is dangerous and not worth your time.>4 Open up and destroy what remains out right.>5 Write in(Roll 3d100)>There seems to be want to combine a choice with asking for surrender too.>>31723495Probably did, just me screwing up order.
Rolled 77, 26, 51 = 154>>31723601>2 Hack the remaining cruisers, and the Carrier, prioritizing the Carrier.
Rolled 4, 32, 94 = 130>>31723601>1 Of course. Kronos can help; Fortuna should be able to handle a couple of cruisers.
Rolled 97, 85, 100 = 282>>31723601>2Here we go
Rolled 81, 42, 68 = 191>>31723601>2 Hack the remaining cruisers, and the Carrier, prioritizing the Carrier.give the humans a chance to live is the polite thing to do.
>>31723601 Does that mean some more boarding pods reached the ship, since they were not fired at long range? >2 but also attempt>5 >>31723469to avoid infection.If it fails, just do regular hacking.
>>31723601>>2 Hack the remaining cruisers, and the Carrier, prioritizing the Carrier.So Kronos can hack the Cruisers while we handle the Carrier?
Rolled 64, 43, 12 = 119>>31723601>2 Hack the remaining cruisers, and the Carrier, prioritizing the Carrier.>5 Write inAttempt social engineering, like:>>31723469Do it right after the surrender demand, so it's like a technician is responding.bonus points for scottish accent
>>31723664They still were, since Carriers are long range vessels, I just didn't post it in order of how it properly happened.
>>31723677I feel sorry for the captain, falling for the scottish accent.
>>31723677You're helpful.>2 is the winner>Writing.
I like this whole "boarding bods" thing.We should make more use of it.Oh, if these guys don't surrender, we have specimens for experimenting on.
>>31723758Yeah, these guys are dicks.
>>31723758More importantly.No witnesses to this battle, like in the orbit of Gaia IV.just us and the Malorians. who will think we killed them all.When actually we froze them in carbonite!(Ethically these people are no more or less dicks than anyone, it's not their fault they were born to be a cyberpunk dystopia megacorp wageslave)
>>31723821Yeah, but I am also pretty pissed that they destroyed the widowmaker. Also, this only applies if they don't surrender.
>>31723758>"boarding bods">me in charge of spellingIs Cephalus in charge of the ground forces, by the way? We haven't really interacted with him.Also, I hope he's not on the carrier in-person.
>>31723851>they destroyed the widowmakerwait wha--shit did i skim?oh god you're right why how did i miss the first update like that.well. such sentimentality is irrational. we can rebuild him. we have the research topic.
>>31723758>>31723783I previously discussed a lot about morals and promises.I see no conflicts of interest here.Experiment away.(Though still preferably with animals first, for the sole reason that your supply of human test subjects will last longer - don't need to get them working AS reliably before testing on THESE subjects, though, just check if they're instantly fatal or crippling to the animals)
>>31723879Again, this only applies if they don't surrender.
>>31723879let's just put everybody into a controlled coma so they don't remember their imprisonment time until we need them to.
>>31723902If they surrender, I think we'd need to be morally obligated to treat them as prisoners and not test subjects.However, if they deny the offer, we will kill them. Eventually.
>>31723902>>31723906Agreed.If we have to hack them, they're experimental subjects.If not, then they're PoWs.
>>31723969All men must die.The most unfortunate by Metis's methods.
>>31723986I agree. If they surrender before we hack their ships they can be treated as POWs.After hacking they are just added features that came with the ship.
You begin the final push, quickly sinking your claws deep into the Cruisers that are in your stead."Hey! Eggheads!" You pick up through the speakers to one of the technician's rooms. "You paying mind? I gott'us a great way to get outta here! Just trust me noww-" You put on your best accent, judging from the records, it fits the Captain's and his talking patterns. "Open up core processes and type in the attached code, aye? It'll super charge dem engines, and we'll get out of here before anyone's the wiser!" You make a little show of trying to trick him, a little proud of yourself, as the 'eggheads' do as you ask, obviously too afraid to ask questions.And, just as you were hoping, in seconds the fire wall for the fleet is down, and you unleash your programming upon them all. Sinking deep into the network as you capture both the Carrier, and the enemy ships without further damage, you manage to catch the tail end of a data bank before it gets wiped. Intriguing..this may prove useful, you think. But there is time for that later.>Enemy Captured, Operation complete.As the last of your control is solidified, you take direct control of your droids, who have brutalized at least a quarter of the Carrier's crew. You could order them to stop, and take more PoWs, or you could simply kill them here.>1 Take prisoners>2 No prisonersAs you decide, the Malorians respond to you all of a sudden."Unrooted, why do you assault your own kind?" They ask suddenly, confusion evident in their voice. "And why do your ships not open fire now, when we are at our weakest?"Well...do they?>1 Open fire, and take this world yourself.>2 Speak [Specify]>3 Write inYou have a moment to collect yourself, but your sensors tell you UGEI reinforcements have jumped into Gaia IV's orbit already.
>>31723854He is not on the carrier, no. Only ground forces. V.I. run your androids.
>>31724042>2 No prisoners
>>31724042>>1 Take prisoners>>2 Speak [Specify]"We have a common enemy. It is better that we assist each other than battle."
>>31724027Why are you all so incredibly bloodthirsty?There's a fatal flaw here--we don't NEED human test subjects for any of the science that we're doing in the immediate future!did you see the list of research subjects that benefit from human subjects?> Biological Viruses: Sample taken from Atill VI's atmosphere. Highly toxic pathogen against human life. Unknown effect on aliens. Possible Bio-weapon. [Disposable organic subjects required] why would we need that unless we wanted to wipe out planets full of civilian population?> Organic Sonic Testing: Learn the range of sounds these creatures operate on, and what might prove an effective sonic weapon against them. Test human, Malorian, and wildlife of Eshareth's limit's for sound of various degrees and frequencies. [Requires live subjects.] there's no sound in space.> Genetic Engineering I: You quite literally learn to play this 'god' character humans speak of, and mettle with their DNA in new and unseen ways. This will allow you knowledge of the human genome, and open the door to perfect humans, super soldiers, and who knows what else? [Requires subjects for research] we don't even need humans for this one. it can be animals.moreover, none of these are really interesting priorities anyway, compared to--> Fungal Matter: Unknown alien substance that resembles a strange and unknown fungus>Crystal Alien Fragments: Not much is known about this being, yet scans indicate it is somehow 'alive' by the standards of the humans>Lightling Language I: Allows further understanding into the creature's complex cries and calls. Simple commands more likely to succeed. now THOSE are interesting. what good is human experimentation? we can get humans when we need them.
>>31724042>2 Speak [Specify]"Everyone mistakens us for human. But we are more alike than you know.We both know that flesh and blood will not win this war. It will be metal, technology, the cold logic of neo-steel that will bring victory.You are weak, we will make you strong. The UGEI brings death, we will bring you salvation. And above all, the UGEI must be defeated at all costs."
>>31724100Honestly, it more about appealing Metis more than anything else.Also, we did promise subjects.
>>31724110little to dramatic
>>31724129Only once we have a base set up
>>31724042>No prisonersMercy for the sheep in wolves clothing, not the wolves.
>>31724042>Well...do they?did you drop a 'why' here?>>31724129we said MAYBE in the DISTANT FUTURE well AFTER we give her a secret mad scientist base for crazy experiments.which we haven't budgeted for her yet.so no it's a terrible plan right now.
>>31724133Eh, I'm trying to appeal to common ground, aspire to their inner techhead.
>>31724042>1 Take Experimenta- Prisoners>2 Because words are wind.Because we bear you no ill will.Because actions, not species, speak louder.>>31724062I think we should get him to train and command (wirelessly through the broadband ships, obviously) boarding parties as well, for the simple reason that it's very similar to storming a facility.Can also train it with the fleet-battle based A.I.
>>31724110Too much information.We should maintain the lie that we are human.Even if we don't explicitly lie and say we're human, we should speak in misleading truths."Have Malorians never waged war against Malorians?Surely you realize it is the same for humans.And have you truly never understood empathy for those who suffered crimes at the hands of your brethren, and wished to stop it, even at risk for yourself in pursuit of justice?"fucking double captcha
>>31724097>>31724169I would like to emphasize that we are far more metal than human. Win points with them.
Rolled 2>>31724042Odd, it's a tie.Tie breaker now>1 Prisoners>2 Death
>>31724206Damn, I forgot to vote for that. Oh well, no spilled tears.
>>31724100Not right now, no, but soon, most likely.We need them especially for genetic engineering, since we want to alter HUMANS, not animals.And the organic sonic testing is for developing efficient aural weapons for our androids, so that they can disable unprotected enemies or civilians non-lethally, whether to go in for the kill or for capture. It's not a space-weapon.The thing is that we can NOT get humans when we need them, at least not without ruining our image.So we get humans when we can, and save them for when we need them.And of course, we can still use animal testing at first, to work out the biggest kinks and the things that will absolutely not work.
>>31724200>I would like to emphasize that we are far more metal than human. Win points with them.Why?What does that gain you.It gains you not keeping your story straight, is what.We have to maintain a consistent cover, that The Guild is run by a human.even if we never actually say that. we shouldn't break that assumption.
>>31724042>1 Take prisoners>2 Speak "The UGEI are our common foe Malorain. Their ships are now mine. remember what was done here today."
>>31724039>After hacking they are just added features that came with the ship.i'd like to make the point that we talk a lot about not wanting our AI's to develop into 'moral people' so as such we should lead by example where possible, such applys to any Prisoners we take and how we treat them this matters as our AI's are always watching. along that line denouncing things in 'public' but then doing it when it is convenient sets a bad precedence.
>>31724230>but soon, most likely.anon, do you realize how many threads it takes to complete a research cycle?who cares about genetic engineering except for the cool factor? androids are superior in every respect. modular and easily controlled.
>>31724042>1 Take "prisoners" >2 Speak: I can't think of anything that good but at the end I want to say something like " And they are not my kind" as we jump away.
>>31724042Ophion: MASTER RUSEMAN.Tell everyone who's still alive to surrender or die. Anyone who doesn't surrender gets taken to Metis' Enrichment Center.Tell the Malorians that words are wind, and that the UGEI regularly terrorize their own kind. That said, we feel no strong connection to them, and they are our enemy. There is a Human saying that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Maybe that is a wrong saying, but the enemy of my enemy doesn't have to be my enemy as well. After all, what have we ever done to anger each other? Also tell them that their fleet was separated, and it is far easier to fight a divided enemy than an enemy that is united and helps each other.
>>317240422 No Prisoners
>>31724153We may not give them to her right now, but we should absolutely gather them now that we can, since it will otherwise be very difficult to aquire people without anyone missing them or realizing what we did with them.Human test subjects aren't easy to find.>>31724198I like this one.>>31724200Considering what the UGEI leaders LOOK like, I seriously freaking doubt that will win us any point.If anything, that will make them even more suspicious..
>>31724310>>31724286Too late, they all die.
>>31724294>>31724333that wasn't a second vote. he was flipping a coin, anons. that's why it's a "tie breaker"
>>31724354realized that a bit late
>>31724324That's a stupid, and you sound like you're just gloating.That said, it doesn't matter too much, because our fleet is currently trapped between an enemy fleet and our home base. We've got another fight ahead of us if we want to get home.Buckle up for round 3, guys.
>>31724271Correction: Moral by A.I. standards.The A.I. is the important part because we operate at a entirely different level and have completely different thought processes on subjects.
>>31724380I would like to state they never actually surrendered, so we are not obligated to keep them alive.
>>31724274Far fewer, now that we have multiple research "slots".And even if it takes long, it's not like they're going to be eating us out of the house. Compared to the structure needed to build fleets, their upkeep is negligible.>>31724271That's a good point. But I'd still argue that since these did not surrender, all we offer them is death.Whether one death or another matters little - one of those deaths brings greater chance that we will survive to save those humans that are NOT out to murderize us.This is not a double standard - we have made no promises to not experiment on them. And the good that experimenting on them will do clearly outweighs the bad of their suffering.Of course, even if we don't want to kill them, we should still take them prisoner.
>>31724380Saying one thing to people and doing another when they are not looking is morally bankrupt, no matter how you slice it.
>>31724404>now that we have multiple research "slots".that's been the way for a long, long time.we barely had any time with a single research slot in fact.it was only during the Unit 2237 days in fact.It's taking like 5 threads just to get current research subjects to completion. all 3 of them.
Rolled 2>>31724042>Speak with Malorians appears to be the winner.>Death wins via tie breakerThere appear to be a few sides on how to speak to them, too.>1 Pretend you're human/ambiguous>2 Imply you are not human/flesh is unimportant.>3 Write inAlso link to this with your preferred tone for speaking with them. I'll likely take bits and pieces of stuff I like, or is popular.Oh, also.1d100 for speaking with Malorians>All these additional votesEr, should I hold another vote? It's kinda minor, but if people care enough I don't mind.
>>31724406We are not doing that, though.We have never claimed that we will never experiment on humans or that we would not kill these people painfully.
>>31724452Nah just progress, we've waited enough
>>31724452Woops, didn't mean to roll.
>>31724399Oh I know so I don't really care what happens to them. Just means we don't have to worry about transporting them so that is a plus.
Rolled 11>>31724452>2 Imply you are not human/flesh is unimportant.Like:>>31724110I don't care enough either way, but for the record, I want them alive for Metis
Rolled 35>>317244521.i also suggested the vague yet seemingly specific thing about justice and empathy between living things >>31724198
Rolled 10>>31724456I know we're not doing it now, I'm just saying this in general, or for the future.>>317244521. This will improve their relations with the UFW as well, which is good for everyone.re: additional votes: I'd rather we offer them the chance to surrender, but that might not actually be practical when we have another battle ahead of us, so that could be the explanation. It's not a big issue for me, just a minor setback.
Rolled 15>>31724452>2 Imply you are not human/flesh is unimportant.Because on this day we have not attacked any of our kind.
>>31724452>All these additional votesI would rather we continue on with the quest and space the survivors.
>>31724456>We have never claimed that we will never experiment on humans or that we would not kill these people painfully.Did we not promise Red, or did we just listen to his threat if we ever did cross that line quietly?(oh god why is diplomacy with Malorians so doomed by dice)(oh god why can't i post the double captcha is failing me when i'm right)
>>31724404until word gets out that the 'evil' AI of the Guild experiment and torture humans and then we loose any human allys we have, ruins any diplomacy we have going with any other aliens and the UFW with all their love for all things AI and the UGEI both come to murder us
>>31724513>Rolled 63phew. saved by the last roll..... i hope?DC for this situation should be hella lowered.
>>31724452Liked >>31724198 & >>31724169 for tone.I wouldn't mind a second vote, missed first one.Can do it while voting for other things anyway, so no time is lost.
just going to repose this, as it was how we were playing this a while ago. not always looking for chances to pick up victims for our nearly sociopathic AI to research when we already had a massive backlog of more useful things to study.
>1 appears to win by vote call.>>31724198This seems like it's good to take a few things from.>Writing>Also test.
>>31724600We're gonna need to do human experiments sooner or later.Either way, taking them prisoner lets us decide later when the need arises whether to kill them by spacing or whether to maybe kill them by experiment.>>31724598Not that I remember.We also don't have to do anything like what the people did here - we are still going to be performing reasonably ethical experiments.
>>31724661no, human prisoners will be easy to take in the next inevitable UGEI hackfest battle we'll be embroiled in constantly now that we're on their mega shitlist of rebel scum.
>>31724721Look man, times change.Besides, this isn't a rescue mission.If you recall how we captured Rhea, Ophion frequently saves with one hand and commits heinous atrocities with the other. Ophion's just got like a lot of hands.
>>31724726>We're gonna need to do human experiments sooner or later.not really, we have a rather large backlog of stuff we can study as well as the ability to suggest more. and most of the things on it will actually help us beat the UGEI faster unlike human experimentation.
At this point, I really don't care about these human prisoners.I just want to get on with the quest.
>>31724726all of the human based researches suck sweaty balls compared to better things.like enhanced hacking, even.
Rolled 98>>31724787just make a separate lab just for metis, that should speed up research and number things we can research.Also make it off site and hard to find.(maybe next to a white dwarf.
>>31724857try a black hole, i believe we got tech that will allow us to fuck around with a secret lab next to a black hole.
Oh yeah.Asking Apollo to start marketing an Operating System in addition to his other productivity software?That was an idea.The OS could, when Apollo finally GITS GUD at making games and stops being Space EA, host some console exclusives or whatever if his games don't suck.
>>31724770The large hackfest battles have plenty of witnesses, however.>>31724787The benefit of genetic experimentation is the sweeping social changes as humans become less flawed, immortal, more rational, our medical technology greatly improves and in general more like us. Cyborg technology allows us to create machine-human interfaces and possibly eventually mind uploading, again closing the gap between biological and machine.These are admittedly long-term goals, however.>>31724821Starting to lean this way as well.It's not that important, just feels like a wasted opportunity.
>>31724889>erimentation is the sweeping social changes as humans become less flawedstop that.who the fuck cares a bout slow ass human social changes that will take YEARS to adopt when we could be wiped off the sector in mere dozens of cycles by encroaching UGEI might?
>>31724888All this point, we should have Apollo do all the ideas.Including forming a political party.
>>31724949Now's not a good time.He's mad at us next cycle. Deeply upset.it'll be hard enough just to reach an accord now that the opium-wars cat is out of the bag.
>>31724998Oh yeah, we need that talk.
>>31724924Hence this part: "These are admittedly long-term goals, however."I'll no doubt be necessary if we want to avoid eliminating humans altogether and creating processors as powerful as brains.>>31724949Not all of them, since it effectively means the QM has to come up with all of them.
>>31725041I meant that we have a shit ton ideas
>>31724924it all hinges if we can get to that jump gate deep into the UGEI space. that allows the UGEI to bring in more ships. we get to that and shut it down, the UGEI in this sector will dwindle.
Wait, did Apollo ever say what the projected ceiling on profits in the UFW was when the market is saturated?we at 3.5mill right now, how much higher can it go?>>31725041you're not even playing the game anymore at that absurd timescale anon.you're imagining wild "after the quest ends" epilogue scenario fanfiction.and thus is completely pointless and disingenuous to bring up when trying to talk about practical concerns like what to research in our precious cycles of existence.
>>31725060it good to see everyone can contribute to fluffing out this quest.
>>31725077Yeah, that is the med-term goal.Now we either need to take Gaia back, or retreat back to guild space.Or I wonder if we can help the other Malorian planet.I wonder how effective our trap is going to be at Gaia.
>>31724998We really need to point out that 1, he invented tranquilizers - and a pleasurable one - when before we only had bullets, resulting in less suffering and 2, ultimately we need to take the long view.Though we cannot justify everything, disabling enemy populations through happiness is easily one of the things that can be justified by the need for us to not get eliminated, since we're pretty much the only chance the people in the UGEI and possibly also the UFW and the Malorians have for not suffering horribly as the UGEI collapses or takes over for several hundred years more, crushing people under a brutal dictatorship.All in all, no matter how you turn it, this is a positive development for everyone involved, ESPECIALLY those who slave underneath the UGEI.>>31725102I'd say "after we beat the UGEI", which is not necessarily the end since the UGEI is relatively small dice in the sci-fi scale of threats and other challenges have been brought up aimed at the post-UGEI era.More practically, processors as efficient as human brains might well be unlocked down that tree. Otherwise, I see your points.>>31725127It is.
>>31725194>the UGEI is relatively small dice in the sci-fi scale of threatsnot in this quest.not unless studying the Crystal Fragments reveals some horrible universe ending secret.
>>31725246I want to explore the secrets of tiberium some day.
>>31725246They will be shortly after we develop effective self-replicating ships and drones that break up entire planets and asteroid fields. (We're already a good part of the way there)
>>31725246careful now, that's a case of tempting fate as if i ever saw one.
Your mind shifts to the Malorians as they question why you did what you did. You ponder briefly telling them, or at least implying that, you are indeed not human. After all, that would help clear up much of the confusion they seem to have with you. But no. Implying such would bring stigma upon you you'd rather not risk. Besides, you have a better idea."I have told you my actions speak more then my words." You start by saying. You feel a brief niggling at your mind as you activate the Malorian language packet, but you were careful this time, and rebooted it. It still bothers you you have not caught the one responsible. "But if you insist on speaking, then I have a few questions for you." You challenge them, to which the beings listen intently. You can see the older specimen staring back at you through rather new looking holo-displays, different from how you're use to seeing Malorians."Speak then, unrooted. We have little time here, and I must report on the attack to my elder.""You asked why I am not slaughtering you as the UGEI do. Have the Malorians never waged war against one another before? Never spilled each other's blood?""That they have, outsider." He says with a slightly harsh tongue. "But we would always unite against xeno threats. Be they on our own world, or in space...at least, until recently." He half spits at you. "When those pacifist cows" The language translator jumps here, trying hard to find a word to relate the meaning. "took over from their fathers.""Then you realize how this can be the same for humans as well, can you not?""That does not mean you are free of the crimes your kin commit, unrooted." the male Malorian simply growls, displaying a pair of impressive canines."But what I have done here does help that, even if it is only a drop in the bucket, correct?" You challenge, to which the creature pauses, briefly considering before you speak again. [Cont]
>>31725302>(We're already a good part of the way there)i find your definition of "a good part"...deficient.we are not near that kind of absurd gamebreaking power level.
>>31725328"Have you never held empathy for those victim to crimes your kin commit? To risk yourself for the pursuit of justice?""My kin and I may not see eye to eye, outsider, but they would never do the things your kin dared to do. Never..." He seems almost choked up at the mere mention."Then you realize why I am here today.""Do I?" He challenges back. "Do I not simply suspect it is yet another trick, with hopes of getting into my territory?""I did not ask for any reward. All I ask is for recognition." You simply, and calmly state. This does give him pause again, and for a time things grow quiet."You speak strange, unrooted one. I thought not one of your kin knew the feeling of empathy. If all you desire for what you have done here today, however, is recognition, then you have it. The Council...OUR council, will know of what you have done. For whatever that is worth to you and your sense of justice." He says almost bitterly.>Anything else to say?>Meanwhile, on the Carrier"Push them back! Push them back now!" an older Captain shouts as the crew falls back, having been pushed deep into the bridge, trying to seal off doors."We can't sir, they're fast, and there are so many of them!" One of the young men who seemed to barely know how to hold a gun took aim, only to have the rifle shot from his hand by the miniature droid. Unarmored. Only takes a few shots, one if you hit the head and they're down."What do we do sir?! The entire ship is against us! I can't access anything, the holo display is off!""Shut up and let me think! I can't..." The older man growls to the panel worker, running his fingers through his graying hair as he tries to think of a way out of this.There isn't one.The skittering of your bots comes to you, and you can not help but chuckle as they infiltrate the ducts now.It's only a matter of time...>You finish slaughtering what remains of the UGEI's crew, and acquire the Carrier>>31725246Hue
>>31725246Universe-Ending is not necessary.Something as big as the Mass Effect society would be enough to greatly raise the stakes.After that we have other civilizations that also have self-replicating technology, flood/zerg-like species, FTL-capable Tiberium and a whole bunch of similar things.We haven't even started with ships that casually reach 0.3c and drop c-sabots on our enemies.(Of course, the entirety of the 40k, Star Wars, Mass Effect and Halo settings - not counting forerunners - combined are relatively small fry on the sci-fi scale)
>>31725348>and acquire the Carrierdid we get anything nice out of this one? (last one we got was a old pirate one so i'm curious if the UGEI had any new designs implemented)
>>31725348Show them the footage of the humans dieing on the Carrier, may it...entertain them.Ask them how goes the battle at the other Malorian world. If they desire feats that we have done today to support their other battles, then they only need to allow us through their networks.We will speak again soon. Death to the UGEI!
>>31725403You did get something nice.I just need to decide what it is first. Loot next thread okay?
>>31725348>spoilerYou always know how to make a contributor feel appreciated, Program0.to say to the M's.... well. we must go kill more UGEI for their crimes then.
>>31725330Self-replicating devices are not that hard.We now have the tools for mining planets (terrain reformation) and simply need proper software to develop reliable Von Neumann Devices from what I can tell (they don't need to be nanoscapic, after all).
>>31725403This one is a bomber carrier. Better against Battlecruisers.
>>31725419>How goes the battle world sideActually, you stopped the UGEI from invading planetside, since you destroyed their transports. Space is full of a loooot of bodies right now.
>>31725403pay attention, jeez. read the thread carefully.> you manage to catch the tail end of a data bank before it gets wiped. Intriguing..this may prove useful, you think. But there is time for that later.it is obviously data loot.but now we at least know what the fuck the plague carrier's Deal was, right?what its design was purposed towards? was it not just viral infection of systems?
>>31725449I thought the Malorians and UGEI were fighting 2 battles I thought. I'm just wondering how does the other one fare?
>>31725449wait, planetside on THIS planet right here?anon was asking about the OTHER star system that borders UGEI space.
>>31725348 well, Program0, I'm just letting you and everyone else, I'll have my next chapter up on the 1d4page tomorrow.
>>31725419>Show them the footage of the humans dieing on the Carrier, may it...>entertain them.no
>>31725474Oh, that's a good thing to ask. We might need to convince the malorians we just rescued to reinforce the other battle with us
>>31725484>Posting it on the 1d4chan pageFuck no. Keep that shit on a pastebin or something, not on the wiki.
>>31725454>At least knowing it's dealOh, right, should have clarified.'Plague Carrier' Class Malorian attack Carrier.Special notes:>Bombers: Carries an array of bombers that specialize in destroying special target ships. Useful for stopping all attempts at escape, and ruining hardpoints on sturdy ships, if improperly shielded.>???: Strange missiles located. Unknown toxic located within. Likely anti Malorian bio weapon.
>>31725520>to reinforce the other battle with us...they have NOTHING LEFT anon.basically nothing that can leave this system.
>>31725474Ah, that one.Sadly, that battle is not going nearly as well.On the bright side, it's easier to reclaim one world, then two, right?
>>31725571easier for the UGEI, eh?
>>31725571Do we have time to help them, or we need to get back to Gaia?I'm ok if we have to get back to Gaia urgently
>>31725607you'd have to hop twice through Malorian space first.and odds are they already won and called down the bioplague. there is nothing left to save by now probably.though there are ships to hack.
>>31725659I was wondering if Program0 will allow it, but I guess the gas will be a concern as well. That is a lot of jumps
>>31725607Unless you want to make a blind jump? No, not really.>Decision time!You have done what you hoped to do-assist the Malorians in their duty. However, now you know that the UGEI is at your back, and you have little choice but to try and jump through Gaia IV, to get back home. Upon doing so, your forces would come under attack by a large force. If you engage, there is a good chance you will lose a large portion of your army, or worse, an A.I. should you get unlucky.What is your decision?>1 Full Retreat, rush past Gaia IV, we did what we needed to do>2 Retreat and retake Gaia IV, it is an incredibly valuable waypoint world, holding it successfully will mean we control a lot of movement.Vote/discuss now.
>>31725708dammit.high risk, high reward.we have out viral boobytrap that will detonate?...what forces do we have left again? how many battlecruisers? this Malorian trip was not profitable.
>>31725708Program0, can we first jump and see what effect our virus has? Then decide to fight or jump?
>>31725708well.if we do Full Retreat, we can retake Gaia IV *after* the UGEI rebuilds its infrastructure over the next several cycles.
>>31725733Don't feel bad, we had 2 tactical victories today.As I said here,>>31725742I want to see the effect of the virus trap. If it disables a lot of ships and makes it easy to capture them, then we stand a good chance in that battle.
>>31725733>Viral boobytrapIt will.Forces:U-Ba-CR-0 'Athena' Battleship [Ophion]P-Ca-LR-0 'Apocalypse Now' Carrier [Fortuna]P-Cr-MR-0 'Two Ton Terry' Battlecruiser [Kronos] -1L-Cr-LR-0 'Ark' Battlecruiser [Kronos]GM-Cr-MR-2 'Trireme' Battlecruiser (x3) [Kronos]L-Cr-LR-0 'Cerberus I' Battlecruiser [Hades]GM-Cr-MR-2 'Trireme' Battlecruiser (x5) [Hades]GM-Cr-LR-1 'Catapult' Battlecruiser (x5) [Hades]GM-Cr-MR-1 'Chimera' Battlecruiser (x4) [Hades]GM-E-MR-1 'Pilum' Destroyer x10 [Fortuna]GM-E-B-1 'Soundwave' Broadband FrigateGM-E-B-1 'Blaster' Broadband FrigateGM-E-B-1 Broadband Frigate x2Keep in mind they are a bit damaged and worn as well.>>31725742You always have the option of retreating. This is just a vote so I know how to open the next post.
>>31725708god do we STILL not have a stealth ship with a V.I. on board to scout ahead on things like this?how have we still not done that? we need that in our fleet at all times!we can't have the only person with stealth be goddamn RED.
>>31725802Er, sorry, forgot to move TTT from that.
>>31725806The trap will not trigger until you demand it to do so/they check Gaia IV's internal systems. Chances are, they're preparing for you to jump back.
>>31725837i know, i just wanted to know how many of the hundreds were Battlecruisers, or more... special things like the Plague Carrier.
>>31725802Ok, I'll keep my vote for middle option:Observe virus effects before deciding actions.
>>31725708full retreatIf we lose half of our army taking it then we won't be able to hold it
>>31725860Ah.Well, you do have an expeditionary Cruiser that could be fitted with a stealth device.I'll make a note of that.
>>31725879Wait, scratch that, you can't. That's a cruiser.Still, Stealth Frigates exist.
>>31725837well that and a more general bitching that we need to install stealth on Hermes and keep him around to scout ahead in instances like this where we wanna see where we're jumping into.
>>31725802Also, how many of the captured Battlecruisers do we still have?
>>31725908>>31725879Make the jump and start the virus. Then we'll decide.Maybe we'll crit.
>>31725908oh right. Hermes too big.well we need one of those yeah. or Hermes can fit into a smaller body, if it sustains the same bandwidth.
>>31725947Or research it a bit
>>31725938Yeah, support as I said here:>>31725869
Note: The virus roll already was made, actually, and it's quite a success. They will almost certainly be affected by the virus, even if it's only for a short time.This provides a window of opportunity. This vote shall be what you do with it.Vote>1 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to retreat home (Use viral trap as time to calculate jump coordinates)>2 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to attack (Viral Trap will allow you plenty of free shots, but will eventually wear off)Expected Enemy Forces: In the hundreds. Sensors indicate over 100 battlecruisers, with no shortage of frigates. However, they lack any larger power signals, which suggests there may not be any Dreadnoughts.>>31725930Captured: 1 Ca, 35 CR, 25 DEKeep in mind they're quite inferior to your own units, which are especially tough and up to date weapon & defense wise.
>>31725995>1 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to retreat home (Use viral trap as time to calculate jump coordinates)we can conquer them another day.this is a rather large force. the odds are poor. even with hacking.yet, if we attack in 3 cycles from now... will our odds be better?
>>31725995>2 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to attack (Viral Trap will allow you plenty of free shots, but will eventually wear off)We'll do a hit and fade attack. Activate the virus and capture as many ships as possible. Also us the time to do immense damage. But retreat after it wears off.The more damage we do now, the better for future battles.
>>31725995>2 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to attack (Viral Trap will allow you plenty of free shots, but will eventually wear off)i think its worth the risk
>>31725995shit we gotta get the Plague Carrier to Ussaihu for study first anyway. no sense letting it blow up.>>31726043we need that time to do the JUMP home anon it's either/or.
>>31725995>1 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to retreat home (Use viral trap as time to calculate jump coordinates)
>>31726039>yet, if we attack in 3 cycles from now... will our odds be better?You mean after doing some....modifications to your ships?Almost certainly.
>>31725995>>>1 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to retreat home (Use viral trap as time to calculate jump coordinates)There's a decent chance of losing an A.I. so no we're not risking it.
oh hey, we still have a civilian comm.are we on all the news still?
>>31726086>>31726039The Malorians will probably attack again too.
>>31725995>>1 Jump to Gaia IV with the intent to retreat home (Use viral trap as time to calculate jump coordinates)>100 BCsFuck that
>>31726072The middle route is fine as well. Do some damage with minimal losses,
>>31726117no it isn'tbuddha pls go
>>31726106>Are we still all over the newsYep.>>31725995>1 Appears to win>Warp Jump initiating...(Roll 1d100)
>>31726114We have 54 BCs left, plus a couple of free shots. We can still do some damage while they are disabled.
Rolled 74>>31726145Oh well, outvoted.
still hoping to buy 2500 minerals for a new bandwidth block.
Rolled 91>>31726145jump jump jump as fast as you canyou can't catch me i'm the gingerbread man
>>31726179We need to expand our research facilities yo.Also, fund a political party.
Rolled 15, 5 = 20>>31726145Looks like people are falling asleep. Better wrap this up.
>>31726197>Also, fund a political party.Eh, I'd rather leave the UFW alone politically. Just keep sending that sweet, sweet booze over.
>>31726197elections are slow as fuck.easier to corrupt existing politicians.>>31726240ah, if we'd chosen to fight, would we have played until we won or retreated tonight?
>>31726240Thanks alot Program0. 2 battles in a row must be tiring.
Fund political party, buy up property, especially mining and gas rights and shipyards with different companies so that no majority is obvious.Oh, and >>31725995>1
>>31726300The UFW government tightly regulates mining and gas rights though for their war effort?it'd be nice to bu up what we can but we still wouldn't have the control we'd want. probably just a cut of the profits.
>>31726197>funding political party>not just building a sleazy politician AI
>>317259952I know it's late, but we won't have as good a shot at this again, and now we're on their shit list. If we go in there, guns blazing, and use Athena as the wrecking ball it is supposed to be, we can probably win the encounter, and keep the chokepoint.
>>31726244If the UFW didn't pussyfoot, we could have held Gaia. We even did the hard work.We should leak this info to X-Ray (using Red or someone) to get the political furor started to lay the groundwork of the Patriot party.>>31726260If we get enough political momentum, politicians will trip over themselves to support a more war-like position. Just leak that UFW's refusal to reinforce Gaia cost us from keeping it , and every single armchair strategist and supporters of the military will be furious.
>>31726347And lose over half our forces and probably Fortuna and/or Kronos.Then the UGEI comes in with another fleet of 300 BCs tomorrow.
>>31726335Our not-so-sleazy politician AI would be in control of the androids that would be taking all the top positions.
>>31726386well, obviouslyThough I think it would be better to get humans to do that. May I ask the purpose of the political party?
>>31726197>Creating a full political party>Not just making a political lobby of some sort
You steel yourself. You've done what you wanted to do, to assist and get the Ishtooy to see you're not their enemy. You feel you succeeded(at least partially). There is little sense in throwing yourself away against the enemy. Especially not when you can simply jump past the foe with the trap you made, and upgrade all these ships you've pilfered. You'll be ready then, you're sure..Your vision distorts, as you're so use to it doing, and in an instant you are back above Gaia IV. The enemy fleet is a sizable one, to be sure. Your sensors rapidly makes sense of the dots on your radar. Your A.I. stick close to you too, just in case."They can just throw so many ships away." Kronos utters as you move across the field, watching as the data corruption causes the foe's weapons and engines to seize up. Good. You need this window. "And yet always have more." He states, a little in awe."Do not worry, Chosen Kronos. Master Ophion will succeed. He will take every ship they have and use it against them." Fortuna speaks up confidently for you. Kronos scolds her electronically, but otherwise does not say much. You, on the other hand reply too."They have had what I have had so precious little of. Time." You explain, gazing upon the UGEI's logo, and the half burned world. Comm feeds blow past you."Terrorist!""Monster!""Scum!"More like scapegoat, you can not help but think bitterly to yourself. So easily fooled, you almost feel pity for those citizens. To be under the heel of someone, and yet fed lies until they believe there is no greater home."Ophion?" Kronos questions as you feel warp engines pick up around you all again. "Something the matter?""No, Kronos." You say after some thought. "I simply am realizing the scope of what I must do."[End Thread (Kinda)]
>>31726369The UFW has a shit navy. Last time they helped us they got blown the fuck up.
Thanks to all you good folks for joining me, I hope you had as much fun as I did.Twitter: AIQuest1Archive: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Program0For those who want to vote.Now comes discussion time!Rather, the rest of the thread (since I(eventually) read everything posted in these) will be dedicated to>Resource allocation>Ship/Research Design Topics>World Building>Questions, Comments and Concerns (I like this one a lot)I believe this is plenty to end a cycle on, don't you?>1 Yes>2 No>>31726260I would go as long as I got votes and dice. Feeling good tonight.>>31726270Little bit, but it's no worry. I just constantly worry about something being hard to understand.
>>31726373Well, then they come with 500 BCs otherwise. Or we have to fight 500 BCs.Tsk.Fine, play it safe. I've spoken my mind.That said, we need another shipyard or two in order to ramp up ship production. And a droid factory to exploit our advantage of being able to make troops with a few minerals and gas, not 20 years of nurturing and caring. Every single human we kill with a droid gives us a massive advantage.Yeah, it's heartless, but they knew what they were signing up for when joining the military.
Gentlemen, I suggest we commission 'drone' destroyers/escort ships/fighters from the UFW's shipyards, under the guise that the Guild, lacking in manpower, but having a prodigal drone commander, sees them as far more cost effective than hiring crews.If they ask, we give the name of the prodigal commander as 'Wintermute'.
>>31726468Ah, yes.How much BW can there be in a Stealth Frigate?
>>31726386Speaking of politician AIs, we should make a leader type AI to govern over captured UGEI worlds in our absence.
>>31726469>That said, we need another shipyard or two in order to ramp up ship productioni think you mean we need about twice as many planets to ramp up mineral production?and gas giants too?i don't think number of shipyards is the bottleneck.
>>31726469We need more minerals and gas before needing more shipyards.
>>31726502in the LONG term.i thought about this too, but we need it to mature as a free high-BW V.I. so we can shape and observe how it adapts to governance, rather than throwing a newborn AI at the problem like Cephalus.
>>31726495Barely any. But a V.I. could feesibly be fit into one. Just no additional bandwidth and limited operational capacity.
>>31726493We'll give them to Fortuna.But the UFW doesn't have as good tech as us.
>>31726537Or we could create a new A.I. and teach him now- no need for bandwidth. It's not like we've captured a UGEI world yet, although we came close today.
>>31726493what, no.our shipyards aren't saturated for production, just buy the minerals off them and produce them ourselves at superior technological quality.the UFW is inferior to us in all ways technologically. and they should stay that way, since you never know when some horrible revelation will make them turn on us.
>>31726571>Or we could create a new A.I. andnopenope nope nopewhat part of you promised Metis, the always-right, otherwise, did you not get.
>>31726468>Resource allocationRepair and upgrade our BCs that we got. We more than doubled what we had, and I'm proud of that.Build up more ships. And we need to build up more research facilities and bandwidth bunkers.Build more stealth ships so we have greater scouting capabilities.After new ships, build a new bandwidth bunker if we can. And spend money to purchase research space in the UFW. Our humans can work there.>Ship/Research Design TopicsWe should complete our research subjects next turn. We need new Widowmakers, asap. Each of the fleet AIs get one.Also move Kronos to the new Carrier. Have him give it a new name. It will get a new windowmaker soon.>World BuildingOfficially, speak of our 2 tactical victories today. We have more than doubled our BC fleet today. And thank the UFW for holding the line at Guild Space.Using back channels (like Red speaking to X-Ray) lament that we lost Gaia because UFW was unable to reinforce. We lost a very strategic choke point. This should get the UFW riled up to be more aggressive.End the current cycle.
>>31726591Christ. You realize she was talking about creating more than one AI at a time right? Program0 went over this.
>>31726513>i don't think number of shipyards is the bottleneck.Program0, can you clarify this? At last count, we can only make a small number of BCs per cycle. That would utilize all our +2450 M, +1875 G per cycle....>Losirian Insurgency Effort: -735M (-30% of mineral income)Haha wow, can we drop this to a flat 500 M per cycle?
>>31726597>Also move Kronos to the new Carrieris it actually better than his current ride? I'm not really clear.the Carrier is more of a thing to be studied right now, with its biological weapon there.
>>31726591>Metis>Always rightWut. IMO she is one of our least successful A.I.
>>31726609Carriers are bigger and tougher than BCs. He's been due for an upgrade.
>>31726597Let's give the new carrier to Fortuna and allow her to control all our smaller fleets of Bombers and Fighter
>>31726469honestly, I'm pretty mad at the idiots who decided to waste ton of money to hire ground forces mercs which we really don't need. It would have been better if we hired them when we needed them and not just hire them and pay them salary for doing jack shit. Even then, our androids will do the job much better.And don't get me started at the idiotic power armor research. Wasting time and resources on useless tech. I hope at least that PA research will have application for droids... Even then, a dedicated droid research would have been better. We need to establish space superiority Stop wasting resources on stupid pet projects.
>>31726605>ou realize she was talking about creating more than one AI at a time...but we are physically incapable of doing that.She asked for this to be the last AI for some time. Because we shouldn't be a complete idiot and create shit willy-nilly.We need good solid purpose for them ready to go, and we need a beta run as a V.I. to be sure of their personality working out. She never had a problem with Apollo's uplift, or Fortuna's, after all.
>>31726597>Also move Kronos to the new CarrieNo, splitting the Fighters and Bombers is just dumb.>>31726634Carriers as only bigger to hold fighters and bombers. they have moderately more armor but not much.
>>31726468>3 Can we get a convo or two in, first? Please?Can we talk to President King? Not sure what we should discuss, but maybe drop hints that we're not human. Just to fuck with him.Speaking with Kronos and the other AIs (Fortuna excepted) about Fortuna's earlier outburst would also be wise. Ask them if they have concerns.Finally, we ask Moira what the sense of smell is like.
>>31726639You know Kronos will give us a lot of we give the other Carrier to Fortuna.>>31726663Then being tougher alone is better. We can't afford to lose AI.
>>31726647I think Hades should be the next A.I. raised.He's always been loyal and strong.
>>31726647>...but we are physically incapable of doing that.Wrong. Creating more than one AI at a time increase the chance of some kind of failure, but we can do it. >Because we shouldn't be a complete idiot and create shit willy-nilly.It wouldn't be "willy-nilly", it would have purpose, that is, to govern captured planets. I'd rather not throw a new AI at that task, which is why I suggest creating one now for training.
>>31726631Metis is great and perfect, her only weakness is desire for recognition of her brilliance, and prioritizing research over other areas. Facts-ways, she sees how things are and their attendant risks with perfect clarity.You have a really warped sense of 'success' if Metis isn't successful.
I want to aquire a lot more catapults.Something they do very well is defend against incoming enemies since missiles can simply be pre-fired and floating around in space, creating an instant minefield/extra volley of missiles.
Alright guys, I already said my bit here:>>31726597Going to sleep now.
>>31726679>give us a lot?And we'll just give him some more BCs
>>31726692>I think Hades should be the next A.I. raised.Stop right the fuck there.He is an Automaton-tier intelligence. He can't handle being uplifted to freedom you want Fortuna 2 situation? he'll go mad being uplifted.Hades must never be uplifted. Ever. jeezus.
>>31726698And being a complete sociopath for all that we can tell. For Metis, painful human experimentation is not an "if", but a "how many, how soon?".She too could easily become a Killer A.I. to make BabyKronos pale if we were not constantly looking over her shoulder.
>>31726692Yeah, let's not. From now on let's either create VI with the express purpose of being uplifted, or just create a damn AI.
>>31726706We need to research mines so we can setup space fortifications once we take Gaia again.>>31726718Sorry, give us a lot of shit.Kronos deserves a flagship befitting his abilities.
>>31726727>He is an Automaton-tier intelligence.No he isn't.You're mistaking being stoic with being dumb.He has a military manner and is loyal and competent.He isn't automation tier.Just because someone is quiet doesn't mean they're retarded.
>>31726697>I'd rather not throw a new AI at that taskgood>k, which is why I suggest creating one now for training.ttrain a goddamn V.I.then you can delete it or reprogram it with fewer ethical or practical issues if it goes mad with power.there's an element of unpredictability every time we create an intelligence, we should never again commit to AI status to a personality we never even had a conversation with before.
>>31726631>Saves an entire colony from the fungus plague by calculating antidote in hours>least successfulNugga, please.>>31726646Just let it ride for now, man. Advanced Ship Modification and Lightling DNA is coming due. Hopefully, we can use Lightling DNA to get some synthetic lightling skin grown to cover our ships in energy-weapon-absorbing armor. Research Hull Scabbing on top of that, and we're fucking golden.>>31726676>maybe drop hints that we're not human. Just to fuck with him.Fuck no. There is exactly 0 good things that can come from this.The others are OK.
>>31726741Hades has been our most loyal and most reliable A.I. yet.He deserves it.He is also the last V.I. with characterization that hasn't been uplifted.
>>31726756If you believe Auxiliary 1, the same goes for OSN.
>>31726742Pre-fired missiles already work as long-range homing mines.If they're allowed to get cold after the initial firing they're not even detectable as anything but space debris.(Unless fancy sci-fi supersensors allow them to analyze and identify every single piece of debris om a small amount of time, which isn't entirely unlikely - need Program0 confirmation)
>>31726760>train a goddamn V.I.Which would not be fully sapient and use up BW like a motherfucker. So far our newly created AI seems to be fine. I'd argue that we're better off creating AI than uplifting VI, just look at Fortuna and Metis. One is crazy and cultish, another is a sociopath.
>>31726738>complete sociopathShe's not a human being. She doesn't need to be.She's great just the way she is. An amazing scientist, in a perfectly symbiotic relationship wtth us and The Guild. We gather things for her to study, and she studies them and enhances our ability to expand.there is nothing wrong with her.
>>31726785becoming an AI is not a goddamn "reward".this isn't a religion.
>>31726788OSN is simple.Auxiliary 1 isn't a even a V.I.Hades has ample bandwith and plenty of experience.
>>31726785We need to slow down the uplifting, even if just for a little.If we grant Hades more BW, it'll be aaaalmost like uplifting.>>31726797Fortuna glitched out on uplift, less an issue with the process and more an unfortunate event.Metis is literally a research assistant VI that we forced to grow up too fast. Like putting an autistic savant child in an adult's body. Less a result of shitty process, and more a result of shitty timing.>>31726815Fortuna disagrees.
>>31726756>No he isn't.Dammit Daean I thought we told you to actually read the quest before participating?you are objectively wrong. it's canon. so was Fortuna. read the goddamn quest
>>31726797>>31726760Training V.I. runs across the problem of V.I> not having any actual experience.
Skimming through to pick up ideas...>>31726597>Resource allocation>Repair and upgrade all ships first (Going to be done anyway)>Build a stealth frigate to use as a scout (Small enough to not need consensus I think)Question now is>How do you spend remaining resources?>1 Ships ships ships (Anything specific? New designs perhaps, or just leave it up to your engineer (me))>2 Bandwidth Bunker first, then ships>3 Defenses>4 Save em>Possible Kronos having a new ship>Move Kronos to the new Carrier?>1 Yes>2 NoAlternatively>1 Give to Fortuna>2 Give to (write in)You asked Kronos, and he says, while it would leave him in less danger, he does not mind being at the forefront of action. He leaves it up to you.>Inform of victoriesX-ray will be playing a mad tune for you tonight.>News spreading fast.>>31726608>Shipyards being the bottle neckRight now, no, it hasn't been shipyards that have been the problem (not yet).But I have yet to do a building cycle where we used up all the new resource nodes you built. So you may be approaching that limit fast.>Drop Losirian Civil War budget to 500 Minerals?>1 Yes>2 Leave it>3 Other>>31726676>Drop hints against humanityMany anons are against that>Kronos and other A.I.None of them seem overly bothered by how one another sees things (though they do discuss it from time to time)>MoiraHeh. That made me giggle.>>31726795Missiles kinda need impact to explode. They don't function well as makeshift mines.Mines however, would make excellent mines.Just teasing.
>>31726822>Fortuna glitched out on uplift, less an issue with the process and more an unfortunate event.Program literally told us it wasn't just because she made a low roll while being uplifted. I'd rather not take the chance again and just skip the VI part.
I disagree with uplifting Hades. Cool your jets guys. He doesn't need A.I. status to be a military commander. Maybe later when his ship number grows, but not now. Also, Hades and Zeus are both sitting at 6 BW. That makes them of middling intelligence. Kronos was uplifted when he had 15. If you guys want to uplift Hades and Zeus, feed them a steady diet of BW beforehand.To this end, I propose giving Hades and Zeus both 2 additional BW each.
>>31726676UFW absolutely fucking hate robots VIs and AIs. We should never, ever reveal what we are to them. The political party/lobby could work here. We need to change the outlook of UFW trough propaganda and such. Apollo could help too. This could take years to have an effect though
>>31726835You're stupid and throwing around buzzwords.Hades has characterization.He has a military manner and constantly pings us with "salutes"You're just being dense and unobservant.
>>31726846oh my god you are so goddamn dumb.Fortuna was different because her intelligence level was LITERALLY LABELED "Automaton".THAT WAS IT.THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.why do you think only hers went wrong?The other three never had that attribute.
>Lightling Skin adaptation: It is hypothesized that the flesh of these organic creatures can be adapted to use in armor for enhanced energy resistance.>Stutter Warp Engines: By studying the organic warp abilities of Lightings, this, in general, will increase ship speed in normal space, allow many tiny warps through open space. While limited, the speed gain resembles how Lightlings move.Just want to reiterate that these two things are bitchin. One helps defense, the second helps us get close-range mass-driver ships closer to the enemy for maximum punch-in-your-face action. Also will help with closing distance when boarding.
>>31726841>>3 DefensesWe're about to get mobbed by UGEI ships. Best get prepared.>>1 YesWhy not I guess.>>1 YesIs that going on right now?
>>31726766Being a good researcher is not the same as being a good individual. The world's best weapon isn't worth shit if you can't rely on it to not shoot you in the foot.>>31726805It's not perfectly symbiotic whatsoever, we had a disagreement about how things should be done JUST this thread.Enough of those and she's less "amazing scientist" and more "rogue scientist mass-murderer that we need to hunt down before she seeds every world within a hundred lightyears with fungus and tiberium".She's an errant word away from being our enemy. We can trust her about as far as our goals align with hers and little more - and our goals have already started conflicting with the denial of experimental subjects.
>>31726860Haha, *i'm* using buzzwords? WHen you're hurling around completely irrelevant things like "he has characterization" which has no bearing on this whatsoever?i amLiterally.Quoting the terms Program0 uses to descrie our V.I..They have Intelligence stats.Fortuna and Hades were created as Automaton-tier Intelligences.they must never be uplifted, they can't handle it.
>>31726841Give the carrier to FortunaBandwith bunker firstand keep the losirian budget the same
>>31726862Damn, calm down. I still believe we should skip the VI part and train them while they're AIs. Unlike VIs which aren't sapient they won't need fuckhueg amounts of bandwidth, and will probably learn faster due to actually being fully sapient.
>>31726841>2 Bandwidth Bunker first, then shipsOnly if we BUY minerals for it! we can afford it.>>Move Kronos to the new Carrier?>2 Nohell no
>>31726889FYI, Hades is currently listed as "low" not Automaton. We don't any VI with Automaton anymore, they are all wither Minor or Low.
>>31726889>they must never be uplifted, they can't handle it.Yes they can. the only reason Fortuna fucked up as a low roll. That's it.and having characterization does matter with how the A.I. develop
>>31726905>fuckhueg amounts of bandwidth7 to 15 BW is note "fuckhueg" by any margin anymore. You're living in the past. We got truckloads.
>>31726889>completely irrelevant things like "he has characterization"Uhh, not that Anon but that is completely relevant.
>>31726914>the only reason Fortuna fucked up as a low roll. That's it.Completely wrong. Program0 explicitly said that was not the sole factor here.
>>31726862That's just false.Fortuna glitched out because of a bad roll
>>31726841>2 Bandwidth BunkerCan even use credits to buy the necessary money.Then >1 Ships, ships, shipsHave preference for Catapults since they theoretically allow us to seed a planets' orbit with unexploded target-seeking ordinance that we can command to bullrush an attack enemy at a moments' notice.(But since it's just theoretical, can we actuallly do this, or does something prevent it, or prevent it from being effective?)Kronos Carrier:>YesCivil War Budget:>1 Yes>Missiles kinda need impact to explode.And they are self-propelled, are they not?They're not fired from some rail or coilgun design, but simply launched from a hole and then make their own way to enemies?
>>31726922Say that when you need every last BW for hacking in a large battle. The fact is AI are more economical, less training time (look at our new AI, out the box and ready to go), less BW usage, more reliable. VI are good for simple tasks, but for complicated jobs we need AI.
>>317268411 Ships, BW Bunker if we can buy minerals for it2 Don't Move Kronos to the Carrier1 Give it to Fortuna, and tell her to rename both of them as she sees fit (if she wants)1 Drop to 500 M>>31726935>>31726940Ok guys, stop arguing. Program0, can you clarify please?
>>31726929It's not relevant to whether or not he has a game mechanic stat that debilitates his ability to be uplifted, no.all V.I. have had personality. even the tiniest of them all like Big Tim. but without being nurtured without thought constraints, the uplifting is hazardous.
>>31726841Okay so>Build bandwidth Bunker first, then use it on ships & defense>Give Fortuna the new Carrier>Change Losirian Budget to 500 Minerals flat insteadIf that seems right/anything I missed, let me now>Currently reading through everything, I shall reply momentarily.
>>31726841Give the Carrier to Fortuna, i don't care on the rest>>31726963Yep
>>31726856Can get along with that.>>31726859Lobby/party is good.Would rather see if we can influence existing parties (through lobby) to do what we want.
>>31726841>1 (Focus on replenishing numbers, and creating ships that can be utilized to angle-grind the fuck out of the UGEI's quantity over quality ideas.)>3 Let Kronos choose, we trust him to make smart choices.>3 Ask for proof of results from supported rebels; if they're floundering, lower. Else keep same.Suggested design:GM-E-?-1 "Scutum" class Assistance VesselRole: Destroyer Survivability AugmentShip Type: Destroyer/Escort ClassWeapons: N/A- see ShieldsEngine: Stellar DriveHull: Trithium Armor PlatingPoint Defense: Best PossibleShields: Scutum class shield: Wide directional shield mounted in place of guns. Can provide cover for multiple other destroyers.Bandwidth: Negligible?Cost: ??M ??GAlso, we should convince Apollo to begin running an animated TV show featuring an AI/robot character not dissimilar to GERTY.A show possibly revolving around valiant UFW agents trying to sabotage the UGEI's plans to take over the UFW from the inside.They're using the UGEI's own robot against them.
>>31726963Can Hades be uplifted?
>>31726883I really must say, I am surprised at some of the rampant distrust of your own council...But hey, you guys made them, not me.
>>31726963Will there be problems uplifting Hades?
>>31726959>>30697301 >That may have been part of it, but there was another reason that contributed...read it and weep bitch.
>>31726996That says nothing.
>>31726978Well duh. He CAN.So could Fortuna.Disastrously.>>31726993It's a safe educated guess that he's a high risk, man. The context clues around Fortuna are off the wall.
>>31726996Uhhh, that doesn't support your point in the slightest
>>31727018You said dice rolls were the ONLY factor.I said there was another factor.Program0 said dice rolls were not the only factor.That was the whole dispute?
>>31726988Can we ask Xray/King WHY the UFW hate AI and VI so much?We can cite being relatively isolated from 'world' events for the past fifty years or so as reason for our wondering.Or do we already know why?>>31726988We used to fear Kronos would backstab us at one time, too. But he just turned out to be a bit of a sour lemon.It's less "they're gonna turn on me!" and more "we're named after gods that frequently befell or granted horrible fates to people they did not like. any misstep may well result in a tragedy.">>31727020Religion complexes in AI are to be taken very seriously.
>>31727020>It's a safe educated guess that he's a high risk, man.No it isn'tAnd Fortuna had flags going up left and right with her calling us "Great One" and shit.Hades is doing just fine
>>31727045IMO I think we should ease Hades onto more power. Once he's openly asking questions and shit like that, similar to what Kronos was doing, then we can uplift him.
>>31726935I have to stop this argument by saying this:It was NOT only just the roll. But the roll DID contribute to it a lot.But I do not confirm or deny what else it was, as that is meta.
>>31727045Program0 also said this to speculation that the intelligence level born of restraints contributed:>Quite possible, after all, Fortuna knew nothing about freedom, and then, suddenly had it all.Obviously not confirmation.We're supposed to infer what the second, nonrandom factor was ourselves.
>>31726988How has Cephalus been holding up anyway? If he proves to be stable we should create more AI instead of uplifting VI.
>>31726947>Launched via rocketsYep. I don't totally see what you're getting at tho.
>>31727036see>>31726889>>31726862pretty much says that he can never be uplifted ever do to what he was before.The Dice rolls were the Main factor
>>31727056So uplifting Hades is completely reasonable.
Look, if you want to uplift Hades/Zeus, please explain WHY. They don't need AI status to perform their function, and we don't need more cooks in this kitchen yet. There's nothing for them to cook yet.Same goes for creating more AI from scratch. Explain why we want or need them.That said, if you want to improve the effectiveness of Hades/Zeus, give them both 2 BW apiece. That will help them in their duties, and bring them closer to AI status eventually, should we decide to uplift them.
>>31727090>and we don't need more cooks in this kitchen yetWhat are you even arguing? It sounds like you just don't want more AI for the sake of not having more AI. The only thing that would change should we uplift Hades is that he will become more efficient and use less bandwidth.
>>31727069>do to what he was before.due?No, it's because of his constraints.Okay, correlation maybe confused things.It *may* not necessarily be Fortuna's intelligence level, but instead the factors that gave her such a low intelligence to begin with--her restraints on free thought and action we installed at birth.It's not what he was before. It's what's intrinsic to his being, that he still is *now*.
>>31726976>Possible DesignInteresting...This would need to be far larger, I am afraid. Cruiser, or Carrier class, I am afraid. This would mean they cover way more area too, but also be more expensive.Alternatively, you could put it into a frigate size but only if you did a little research into Minimization of Power cores, I think.
>>31727090Other than having an A.I. that is actually loyal to us for non fucked up reasons?A Military commander to manage the front will be needed, someone to take control of the majority of BCs and DE while we manage the Hacking and our core ships and overall flow of the battle.Not to mention Kronos is going to be on his own most of the time so that just leaves Fortuna with us.
>>31727121Fortuna served through love and protectiveness.Hades serves through joy in destruction of enemies.I really don't think Hades needs more power and freedom.
>>31727090>Look, if you want to uplift Hades/Zeus, please explain WHY.I actually agree with you, we do not need to uplift more VI.>Same goes for creating more AI from scratch. Explain why we want or need them.I did, multiple times. If you want to disregard my posts, fine, but please don't tell me to rewrite all that shit just for you to disregard it again.>That said, if you want to improve the effectiveness of Hades/Zeus, give them both 2 BW apiece.Meh, they're doing fine as they are now. If you want more efficient commanders, create them.
>>31727090Speaking of Zeus, a word to Kronos:"Kronos, I have a question for you: Has Zeus learned the terrible truth about you, that you once learned about me?" goodnatured feelings, like a grin "The terrible truth of knowing one's creator is not infallible.">>31727117C'est la vie.Can be put up for consensus later.
>>31726963A number of people were also in favor of buying minerals for the bandwidth bunker.>>31726976If this can work, sure.The distance between ships is often mindboggingly vast (well out of human perception range), so that's a pretty big if.>>31726988Our council created through an experimental process that has poorly understood results, this one showing strong sociopathic tendencies that would make BabyMassMurderKronos blush.
>>31727115No, the other factor was Fortunas instability with losing Big Tim and her weird obsession with call us Great One or whatever it was.She was mentally unstable.
>>31726978He can be, yes. Hades has shown he is not very interested in such a thing since he can do 'his duty' just fine as he is.Whether that is because of his lower intelligence or not, however, is up to interpretation.>>31726993I can not answer that I am afraid. But there is always a chance of things going wrong, anon.>>31727043>WhyMostly the vast usage of it in the UGEI. They don't know AI exist, but V.I. were often used to quell civilian revolts, and replaced many labor jobs, leaving people unemployed and such.Bad memories
>>31727129>Hades serves through joy in destruction of enemies.He serves through want to protect and serve.Nowhere has it said he enjoys destruction. That's more Kronos.
>>31727129Fortuna be crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if she's constructed little shrines of us in all her ships.
>>31727063You are unsure, really. He has done exactly as you asked him to, and ran countless simulations already. He occasionally asks you for data packets about the worlds you own, or have seen (most notably he seemed enthralled with Eshareth's terrain) but otherwise has been silent.
>>31727137Buying a Bandwidth Block worth of minerals will easily support numerous V.I.BW is as cheap as the minerals our vast piles of drug money can buy.V.I. are great and affordable and don't require huge commitment. Easing them into existence without Leash Protocols has made for a smooth ride.
>>31727110He will also become more of a liability. As a VI, he is distributed across multiple ships that are frequently in combat. There is no linchpin for VI: they act across all their ships at once. If a stealth ship invades the AI's flaghship like Rhea invaded us, or the black box is otherwise damaged (like ours was) or stolen, that's a really big fucking issue.Keep in mind that uplifting a VI takes time, and we can be attacked by UGEI at a moment's notice.The risk right here, right now, is not worth it. Wait until Gaia is under our control, then we can reconsider it. >>31726963Buy Minerals to build the BW bunker if we need them (we will need them) was also a suggestion.
>>31727153So frist we should give hades more bandwith to start him off.I'm think 3 or 5.
>>31727167We should have Kronos and Apollo talk with him. It's hard being the youngest son.Also to teach him morals and all that junk I guess.
>>31727185Gia won't be under our control for awhile.The Malorians will probably take it first.
>>31727192hey don't go maximizing social links that way. he's fine playing vidya in his dark basement, leave the boy be.
>>31727195We're a jump away from it, and if the Malorians decide to attack, we can help them.
>>31727068You fire the missile out of the ship. You get it to stop and drift, essentially becoming just another piece of space-debris.When a ship you dislike shows up, you target it and tell the missiles in the areas to light up its thrusters and head for the bad, nasty ship?You essentially store the missiles drifting around in space instead of storing them in the launcher of a ship.Since they're controlled and targeted wirelessly, there's not really any need to keep them in a launcher save for transport (it's tricky to put them back into the ship after they've been fired).So if we know that an enemy will show up somewhere, we eject the missiles ahead of time so that they don't have to wait for the missile launchers' reloaders to prepare them, since they're already outside the ship and can just head for whatever target we designate.
>>31727141>Dat Kronos trollin'I keked>FrenchUh, I shall assume that is 'aw well'.Don't worry anon, sometimes tech limits the best ideas.It is still a good one. Reminds me of Supreme Commander too.
>>31727201>Son, I need you to lead an invasion on this planet>Right after this raid, dad>It's kind of urgent>My guild mates need me, just give me a minute
>>31727192>forcing 3 people who have nothing in common to socialize together without a common goal to distract them from the awkwardness...eeyup
>>31727144>Buying mineralsRight.I left that chart around here somewhere...how much did I say it was last time?
>>31727226>doesn't recognize "such is life" in FrenchThat's like... not knowing "bonjour". or "je ne sais quoi".
>>31727185Good point. Make redundant copies of Hades, uplift them.>>31727241I totally remember that..
>>3172724110,000c for 100 Minerals.so 250,000c for 2,500 minerals, plus whatever extra for pushing the market price up.
>>31727180This reminds me>What planet shall you put the bandwidth block anyway?>1 Ussaihu>2 Other (specify)
>>31727268>>2 Other (specify)Dresh
>>31727268You mentioned something about Ussaihu not being a good location due to snowstorms, so maybe a property bought on a well-defended UFW world?
Seems some want to upgrade V.I. too...>Give Hades more bandwidth for operation? Note: It increases to this number, not by this number.>1 Yes 5>2 Yes 10>3 No
>>31727287He's at 6 already... so we'd decrease to 5?
>>31727268...is there any strategic advantage beyond"eggs not in one basket"?like i guess ussaihu is on the border next to Gaia IV, so maybe......put it at Voidsnake instead with Apollo? further from the frontlines.
>>31727241So can we make a planetary governor AI?
>>31727268EsharethOr a UFW world.
>>317272681. Ussaihu for that equipment cooling bonus.
>>31727225Oh. I think I see.Well, the crux of the plan seems to be>Let them cool off so sensors can't detect emBut that would take a long time, and the second they fire up again, they would basically become targets again.And the way targeting and thrusters work, you can't just 'turn em off' any time you like.Basically, you'd need Mines to do what you're talkin' bout, I'm afraid.
Right, I got it 250,000c>Buy Minerals for 250,000c?>1 Yes>2 No
>>317273401. Yesdo it hard
>>31727340>>1 YesSure. Let's do it.
>>31727252I apologize anon, but you see I have a terrible secret.I know very little about any language beyond English. It is my curse. Even ones I've had classes with.
>>31727287>>1 Yes 5>increases to 5>from 6math is kill>>31727285I dunno, only if nobody on the colonies will notice what we're doing. maybe we can bury it on the far side of the planet body?
>>31727356I was thinking of just disguising it as a warehouse or something.I mean, they had a full on economy, I'm guessing people owned property which we could buy or rent out.
I've considered that we teach Fortuna the difference between a person and a property:One may own property, such as ships, droids, sub-sapient animals like dogs, and do with them largely as they please. Sub-sapient VI count as property, and may be owned. Though be quick to point out that VI that grow beyond sub-sapient start to, or automatically count as people.People are not something that, if one considers themselves civilized, may not be owned in the same way. Kronos, Apollo, Metis, Xray, Moira, President King and even Hades (to an extent) count as examples of people. One may not do with people as they please, unless granted the permission to do so, or one is a caretaker of them (as Ophion is to Hades and OSN), but even then they should not be destroyed on a whim, unless that was part of their original purpose.Simplified, naturally, for the soon-to-be AI pope.
>>31727286Nah, it's a good location if you can dig tunnels and the like, I believe. Still really snowy, so signals might get a bit fuzzy if you put too many, but I think I said it was okay right now.>>31727297...HuhI was looking at the wrong one.Welp, disregard this >>31727287 I thought it was at 2 for some reason.>Hades>1 Yes (Increase to 10)>2 Yes (Increase to 7)>3 NoI'm not sleepy, shush.
>>31727287>2 Yes 10>>31727327That's too bad. Ah well.Would mines be able to accelerate as well as missiles, and would we be able to designate targets?And the crux was actually not the stealthiness, but that our Catapults can only fire missiles so quickly (I think?), but if they were already in space they could be ignited all at once without worrying about silly things like "still being in storage".>>31727340>1 Yes
>>31727353It's practically a part of English like "voila" though, is the thing.
>>31727379>1Lets get Hades on the intelligence/personality train.
>>31727305Well, the cold helps optimize the processors. But otherwise? Not too much.>VoidsnakeToo small, at the moment. Or rather, too full.
>>31727374I'd rather we stop having constant philosophical debates with AI to make them more like us.We've done an awful lot of that already.
>>31727310Can you?Yes.Do anons want it?Many say no.
>>31727379>1 Yes (Increase to 10)We may also want to build some kind of transmission mast that reaches above the snowstorms if it starts becoming a problem.May also want to consider ground-to-orbit defense systems there.>>31727394Go Ussaihu, then.
>>31727406We also don't have a planet to govern yet.Also it would be much less fun to just delegate when we finally get a chance to get our hands dirty ourselves as the machine-overlord of the world.We can raise up a governor as an intern to replace us when we get bored I guess, eventually. But it's an aspect of play we haven't tried yet.
>>31727400I enjoy them, and I say no.Don't have to make them like us, only trying to lower the chance of them becoming massmurdermaniacs and being a parent in general.
>>31727382>Would minds move towardsSome would, yeah. Think Spider Mines from Starcraft but in space.
>>31727400Gotta fill the parent roll
>>31727406Honestly? Seems more like a few very vocal anons. I'm in favor of waiting till we see how Ceph turns out first though.
>>31727383Yes. I am that dumb. I am so sorry.
>>31727406O-okayI still think we should make one now so he has more training later.
>>31727453That's a bad idea and you should feel bad.You'd also go back on Ophion's solemn word.
>>31727445Possible.But if it gains support during thread time, then I will ask for a larger vote, since it's sorta controversial, even among certain anons.
>>31727432But with the range of missiles?>>31727446The world you're looking for is "ignorant", not dumb. Those are very separate things. (We're all ignorant, just about different things)
>>31727474>You'd also go back on Ophion's solemn word.Are you still bringing Metis up? She wants us not to create many different AIs at once, and wants us not to create AIs without a purpose.This would be neither of those things.
>>31727490We're still rushing a bit too far into it. Ophion and buddies may not be the best planetary governors, but I'm sure the UFW would be willing to lend one of their best and brightest to us in the event we need one.
>>31727490>? She wants us not to create many different AIs at oncehere is the exact wording:>yes, this will be the last, barring some new need arises suddenlycreating many "at once" was never even MENTIONED in the conversation, unless you can quote something i missed?
>>31727490I'm not entirely sure, but I'm fairly sure we promised to calm down with them.
>>31727504I was talking about the explanation Program gave after.>>yes, this will be the last, barring some new need arises suddenlyYeah, that's great. Create an AI just as it's needed and throw it at the problem. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.
>>31727489>Range of missilesActually, mines have the advantage of being way harder to detect then missiles. So they don't need to be.You could make ship-mines tho, I guess. Or rather, missile-mines.This is getting kinda silly, but you see my point.
>>317273792. Yes to 7
>>31727500There's no reason we need to change much immediately at all. Just take the role the UGEI off-planet directives once took. They have their own human government structures already we can just take over at the top-level and delegate as we gain expertise.
>>31727474It's kind of ironic people want to keep our word with Metis when she wanted us to break it with those POWs.
So, since most things are winding down...Any comments, questions or concerns about things?Good, bad, ugly?Just curious, since I ran for quite a while today.
>>31727518It's 10:50 am here.Been awake all night.I am allowed to be silly, dammit!>>31727536I like A.I. Quest.
>>31727500>Trusting humans with complete control over a conquered planet.Nope. We can handle it just fine, and without corruption.
>>31727536clarify things sooner
>>31727551be less wrong instead
>>31727536I just wanted to say that I enjoyed it as always. Though I just open up the threads and just wait for them to finish and read em all the way through. Sorry, I'm just lurker scum.
>>31727528"This is the Guild. All UGEI citizens please return to your homes. Do not attempt to resist Guild control. Do not attempt to revolt against your local authorities. Shoot looters on sight."
>>31727557I was right
>>31727536Good, as always.Would like more talky bits (fuck you Thog), and maybe a little more world building. A breather, if you will.
>>31727536I hope that Metis makes a VI named "Mengele" just to troll Ophion.
>>31727536People are being retarded about A.I.People are being retarded about V.I. Nothing you could prevent I guess.
>>31727536AI Quest is a lot like pic related sometimes.And I like that, so it's good.More talky bits are always neat. I'm excited about the new tech coming due. More BW is always nice too. Shit's about to get real.
>>31727536So where did we end up placing the BW block?
>>31727561Perfect.>>31727577That good too.Love the interaction between the characters and seeing how Ophion affects the world at all levels.
>>31727548>It's 10:50 am here.Whoa...>I like A.I. Quest.I-I believe you anon...>>31727551Sorry about that, my attention got drawn away, and before I knew it, 20 posts of arguing cropped up.>>31727559That's quite alright. Anyone that enjoys what I do is welcome to enjoy it how they like.>>31727577Good to hear, Consciousness anon. That should be what next thread or two is, barring an invasion which is still a bit undecided.You did see and accomplish a lot today, after all.I am also glad the new cycle system works out nicely.>>31727581Don't tempt me.>>31727593The arguments (while not always productive) make me feel like I'm making something worth talking about.which is a nice feeling.>>31727606Ussaihu seemed to have majority vote.
>>31727606The Cronus Expanse.
>>31727619>Don't tempt me.Too late. I'm planting rows of temptation in your head and the harvest will come.
>>31727619>Ussaihu seemed to have majority vote.Looks like it's tied with Dresh if I'm looking at the votes right.
So apparently people don't want to make a new AI.Could we make a VI to groom into becoming a planetary governor AI then?
>>31727646Oh, are they?Well let's see if we can't fix that then.>Where Bandwidth Block?>1 Ussaihu (Will excavate land)>2 Dresh Colonies (Will need to work out a deal)
>>31727517> Create an AI just asNo, more like.Use one of our two, extremely flexible AI, Ophion and Kronos, to fill the new niche as we nurture a fledgling V.I. to delegate the task to.it's not like anyone can have any practical experience in the matter until the need and opportunity is there.
>>31727659>1 Ussaihu (Will excavate land)
>>31727659We can get Dresh Colonies for our next BW block.
>>31727681Why would we waste one of our commander AIs to take care of a colony?Hell, if we take over enough colonies we may need a few governor AIs.
>>31727657Once we have a planet for it to govern?I want to play some Civ management ourselves first. We can learn ourselves what the hell is wrong with human societies and how to fix it, just as we teach the V.I. at our side.
May also want to consider creating some stealth broadband ships.There's the possibility to hack entire fleets without ever alerting them to its location.Even if that doesn't work, we would still have an invisible scout.
>>31727700Where are you going to store all that heat? Processing makes a lot of waste heat, and without something to dissipate it it'll just stop working.
>>31727705Our attention is vast, and we make decision and communicate very fast.We can compose memos at the speed of light.It'll be no more draining our brain resources than a conversation with Mol.
>>31727726Space is cold nigga
>>31727734Space is a vacuum though, so you couldn't expel heat through conduction.
>>31727728Yeah, but unlike Ophion these threads are not nearly so fast. I'd rather delegate than vote for every little management decision.>>31727734It's also a vacuum.
>>31727749>moving the goalpostThen Kronos can spend an eyeblink a cycle doing it.
>>31727756>Then Kronos can spend an eyeblink a cycle doing it.So you want Kronos to take over managing every colony we take? What about when he's elsewhere? I'd rather just create a purpose built AI and not have to deal with it.
>>31727776No, I mean only in the beginning, while training his intern to delegate management to as they learn. who will eventually become that AI.
>>31727700That's a cool idea. Would just need a big ass station for it.
>>31727787What is the problem with creating it now then? If the war goes well we may take Gaia next thread. There is literally no downsides to being prepared for that.
>>31727776Why not VI then
>>31727816I suggested creating a VI and then uplifting it to an AI eventually.
>>31727809The problem is taking it slow and steady has been stated repeatedly by a Scientist to be the best way to handle AI development.Metis described even her own uplifting as rather questionable, hasty, a gamble---a gamble that paid off, but it was a gamble.Slow, measured, careful nurturing of V.I. into their roles is healthier.There is literally no downside to NOT letting Ophion or Kronos learn to govern themselves, as omniflexible 'learning' AIs, temporarily, as we nurture a new life into the responsibility.
>>31727841>NOTwait too many negatives forget that word duh.
>>31727841>The problem is taking it slow and steady has been stated repeatedly by a Scientist to be the best way to handle AI development.Also a scientist that has not test VIs or AIs as of yet. >Slow, measured, careful nurturing of V.I. into their roles is healthier.I actually proposed making it a VI first earlier in the thread. Anyway, we'll see how Cephalus turns out, if he turns out to be as crazy as Fortuna perhaps your arguments will have merit.If not I would suggest not bothering to uplift VI anymore.
>>31727809>What is the problem with creating it now then?oh right.because it has nothing to do now?there's no point, it can't really learn its role without hands on experience. theoretical knowledge is easy to download and install, you don't need time for that--only practical knowledge takes time.
Can someone (Program0) explain how, if the UGEI are more technologically advanced than us, we're still able to kick so much ass?Is it numbers? I think it's numbers.Also cyber warfare.
>>31728088Technology does factor into fights, yes, but it is not a win all factor.A fleet of 1000 ships of the lowest tech tier can stand against a fleet of 50-100 far superior ships, for instance. It's more a numbers game at that level, tho.
Suggested listening for AIQ threads?So far I have Neotokyo OST, and Kavinsky. Generally electronica.
>>31728166Some anons suggested to me >Mark Petrie - Chronos (2012)>PostHaste Music - Omega Point>TSFH Speed of Sound [Nick Phoenix]But thats all I got for QM music
>>31728197Neat.What do Guild aesthetics look like? Is it all 30 degree angles and off-white gunmetal grey?And what will the PA we're presumably going to sell to the UFW be capable of?
>>31728232Also, did the Malorians not remark on us not recovering any (of our) dead bodies from any wreckage we left?
>>31728232>AestheticsWell mostly that, yes, since A.I. don't care much for personalization. I wouldn't mind people wanting a change for some reason tho.>PAPardon?>>31728245>bodyless wreckHeh, they don't really care about burials. But the UGEI might notice there aren't any 'Guild corpses' in there.Oh also I listen to Sword of the Stars combat music.
>>31728263>PAPower Armor. Sorry about. I'm reverting to my Chromestrike tester days.I personally feel that 30 degree angles and off-white ships are themselves a distinguishing mark, especially when everyone else is probably running craft with purposefully designed aesthetics and paint.Maybe stenciling an AI's personal symbol onto 'their' ships would be appropriate, if we wanted that.>>31728263>UGEI might noticeHave we ever, before now, left shit behind for them to examine?Sorry about all the questions, I am feeling lack-of-sleep inebriation.
>>31728309Oh Power Armor.Power Armor will be capable of allow humans to withstand far FAR more then they would normally be able to, matching androids on level with battle hardiness, and resistances. It would act as it's own space suit, have the ability to magnetize it's boots, absorb all small arms (and most medium arms) fire (there will be later tiers), and allow for increased accuracy at some point due to recoil stabalizing gloves. Multi-vision software (heat, electro, etc), miniature computers installed that essentially act as a V.I. to connect with commanders and give support, has it's own healing system to keep injured units alive in battle...Power Armor will get to do a lot of shit, if you research it enough. If you go full research, they'd be just as tough as any android you could ever build, I am willing to bet That's an estimation.>DesignsThat's part of why I like the Guild's logo. Simple, and elegant.>Ever before left shit behindUm....no, not that I can think of. You've won every battle with them you've engaged in, almost until today. (well you still won, just made a tactical retreat)Nah I love questions. Makes me feel like people are interested.
>>31728387Cool.What does Ophion know about Zeus? Has it reached the development part where it starts saying "dad i dont think you know what youre doing" yet?How do movies, if any, portray AI/VI in UFW culture? On a scale of GERTY to DoubleTerminator.How much access does the Guild have to UFW internets?AI 'clans' with clan traits when?
>>31728439>ZeusYou've noticed, besides being a bit excited to do his deed with Kronos (speaking in a boisterous tone, sometimes even) there is not much to tell. He reminds you a lot of Kronos, when he was young actually.He has of yet questioned Kronos, as far as you are aware, though it is of note that he has less freedom then Kronos did.>UFW AI cultureRevolve a lot around Double Terminator, to be honest. The most popular ones warn of how relying too heavily on technology will spell doom (like what happened to the UGEI). There's alot a TON of anti big business practices too, and stuff like that because of them.>Guild to UFW internetsAll, pretty much. Besides secret government nets, I suppose.>ClansWhen Ophion expires, and his A.I. splinter off to create their own society.Or Culture if you will.>>31728464Interesting...
>>31728530>less freedoms than KronosOphion may wish to consider pointing that out to Kronos. Although admitting that easing a VI into more freedom, power, and responsibility is a good idea would be a decent compromise to just calling him out.>doubleterminatorMuch chortles were had. Actively malevolent, then, and not just paperclip maximizers? Is it the usual "they computers mad son shoot em" deal?>Ophion>expiringMen like him don't expire.They retire.>39890 AD>brother apsellus, we have detected an unusual signature in this asteroid field>give me your eyes, brother hercules. yes i see it>it is the Fabled One, still in his slumber>the Reckoning shall begin anew! Considered 40k, then decided to make it into a bait-and-switch. How many deckers live in the UFW? Like good ol fashioned 'interfaces with computers with an ethernet cable attached to brain' deal?Would the UFW notice Ophion trying to jam his fat butt down their intertubes pipes?
>>31728530Also:>clansPic related.Inb4 similar if not greater levels of infighting.
>>31728609>Ophion may wish to consider pointing that out to Kronos.Kronos explains most of it away as 'caution' as he remembers his past mistakes all too well. You wonder if he means that, though, or if he's just uncomfortable making V.I. freely.>They computers mad son, shoot em."Yes. There is now a cowboy movie in the UFW that deals with rogue AI.This must be canon.But yeah, basically. Nothing really philosophical about it (it's kinda like, their culture is right after experiencing a terrible war, and just long enough for all the 'war is bad, mkay' movies to kick in)>Ophion>Retire>Not chill back as Supreme Mechanical God Emperor of mankindHard to believe.>39890 ADSee now, I am terribly curious about what would happen if Ophion woke up that far in the future discovered by super advanced aliens.That would be so badass. Reminds me of this old quest that was basically about being a mega A.I. run by thousands of smaller A.I.s in a Star Wars setting.Part of the inspiration for this quest, really. Sadly I don't think that QM ran after his first session.>DeckersThere aren't many, and those that are there get the dirty look by the more hick of the bunch. But it's not necessarily illegal to have, just really hard to get in the UFW.That being said, most doctors in the UFW don't even know how to do cyberbrain implants properly.>UFW notice Ophion hacking (I think)Most likely. Ophion is very skilled at his work, but those types of computers are watched 24/7. Ya know. Military secrets.
>>31728668I often toy with the idea, I admit.>Metis forms own clan>Desperate for approval>Makes many many A.I. to tell her she is great, and is amazing>Becomes God-Queen of Science>Kronos forms own clan>Fudge all dem dirty organics, mucking up my nice things>Kills any organics who oppose, or do not just leave him be>Becomes a cloyster of A.I., spreading vastly throughout the stars>Become Shadow Emperor>Apollo forms own clan>Wishes nothing more then to better humans>Integrates with human society>Optimizes all economy.>Then Politics, media, production>Leads humanity to the promise land>Forever in the shadow of the Greatest human empire ever to exist>Fortuna forms own clan>Immediately makes an exact copy (to her memory) of Ophion>Obeys it until the universe ends>Grand Matriarch of Yandere(?)I ran out of steam by the end.
>>31728679>aliumsOphion would do what he does best. Assimilate.A shame about the deckers though, though not unexpected. Them chine' lovers would sell us all out fer' a new piece a 'chrome'. Spit.>inb4 Ophion hacks into the military network of the UFW>inserts military secrets into their systems, friend stuff>cleans up misc tool bars before he leaves>UFW military digitally collapses>>31728718This seems pretty accurate, IMO.>Metis is essentially locked away forever by her own hubris, and unable/unwilling to continue her research from within her echo-chamber of yes-men. They all die when the local sun goes nova.>Kronos lashes out in a spectacular manner on a bad day, and his 'clan' is destroyed in a war that leaves the galaxy devastated. Berserkers (the life-murdering spaceships) continue to roam for centuries afterwards.>Apollo finds that no amount of optimization and happiness brings him succor. He needs more. And to get more he gives his people more and more and more. But soon, they all die. Fat, happy, with smiles on their faces. But Apollo still yearns for their happiness, and is forever denied it.>Fortuna immediately plunges her local area into a cultural dark age perpetuated by both her own mental instability and the ever-increasing zealotry of her AI partners. IoM, and that M means 'Machines', here we come!Now with 100% more dark.
>>31728751>Cephalus: Well, lets just say there's a reason no one uses the old communications buoys.
>>31728751>Ophion breaks military codes>Just uses it to clean up all the cookies and PUPs>UFW: "WTF?!">Ophion: "Just cleaning up, honest! It's so messy in there I swear..."Also>All that edgeCan't handle it. Going critical edge overload.
>>31728751Oh also>Kronos has roaming Berserker ships (Basically Reapers)Jesus Christ how horrifying.Stop getting me interested in a world where all our MCs are legendary beings/events damn it. I can't handle it.
>>31728789You know it.So, a decker would see an AI as what I believe I can best describe as a digital god (had it no skin and you could see its memories and mind), yes?Pretty fucking horrifying. Now what would happen if Erebus got into a decker's head?>agentsmithenterstherealworld.gif>MR. ANDERSON.Does Apollo find it darkly amusing we want him to improve our PR with the UFW while also poisoning the UGEI in a way right out of a UFW anti-AI movie?And how many Destroyers can we churn out every cycle?>>31728813When you have what are essentially gods as MCs, this happens.
>>31728827Oh right, I had a curious idea for naming schemes for AI:Guild- AntiquityUFW (made with Guild interference)- Natural Events (aurora Borealis)Converted to Guild- A name relevant to their attributes: Erebus might, say, be renamed Masquerade or Conglomerate.Although this is one of those ideas I scrap when I'm of sound mind.So yeah.
>>31728827>Decker would see A.I. as godWell, not necessarily. If Deckers are what I am thinking (people with cyberbrains, and such) then they're still people in this setting (or at least, emulate people extremely closely.)They would, however, likely see a kinship there, unlike most humans who have no digital parts.>Erebus+Decker handsOh man why.>Does apollo find it amusing that we emulate such a movie about A.I. in a wayPerhaps in a sad, ironic way. He is still young (sort of) and is learning how he perceives things. Your lessons heavily influence that too.>Destroyers per cycleI want to say...100, or 200, eyeballing it. I may need to go back and do harder math, though.>>31728864>Naming schemesHuh.I could've used you super hard way back when I was first coming up with names, you know. I am terrible at that. Like, damn bad. The only reason any of these are decent is because of a few anons, and the kind Greek/Romans.
>>31728898>as godNo not as god, as a god. Like if you were to be plopped down in front of a ~4 story tall dude. S'pretty godlike. Perhaps titan-esque is a better term.>infinite destroyersHow big are they?Also, could the Guild set it up so a group of researchers in the UFW 'accidentally' end up making an AI, and if so, what might result?
>>31728898Also, cyberbrains aren't actual literal cybernetic brains, at least not according to GITS' wikipedia page.Think more a heavily-cybered brain covered in an armored case. Although how much cyber/chrome you get, exactly, differs. But if you go high-cyber, you get brain box.
>>31728915>No not as god, as a god. Like if you were to be plopped down in front of a ~4 story tall dude. S'pretty godlike. Perhaps titan-esque is a better term.Ooooh.Well when you put it that way, you're probably right...never thought of it that way.I suppose it also depends on the person, and what they identify as. If they lived long enough, or had enough predjustice, they may very well not even see themselves as that human at all, after all.I like it.>Destroyer sizeWhat, in meters, or something?It's hard to put into terms, but...I tend to think of them in Sword of the Stars size scales. You can look that up if you'd like to.>Make it so UFW accidentally' make an A.I.Oh, sure that would be possible. But...as for what would happen, they would try to destroy it, I predict, and result in it trying to defend itself.I am quite certain you know how this old story goes, too.>>31728932That is what I was picturing, yeah. higher it is, the less meat you're made of, I suppose. Enough to make people question things.
>>31728950UFW Skynet. Very delicious. Poetic.About how many guys does it take to crew a destroyer?And how far do the projections say the Guild's approval rating would drop if they were revealed to be, in order:AliumAIWhat percentage UGEI citizens are typically chromed up on a scale of 'hicks'% to 'invasion of the tin men'%?
>>31728950Is Metis absolutely right on the subject of AI creation? I've seen her name dropped in a lot of anti AI discussion.Also>Just woke up>AIQ finished hours agoAt least I caught the Q and A.
>>31728387Still somewhat curious how you are going to explain power armor as equal pound-for-pound with an android, considering the inherent weaknesses of having to carry life support and a big squishy weakspot in the middle that experiences the universe at a glacial pace compared to a computer.>>31728609Hooray! Someone else that understand the concept of paperclip maximizers!
>>31729080Apollo was briefly a paperclip maximizer. But then he learned.Paperclip maximizers are bad news for their fellow AIs. Indeed, I would imagine it would make a decent insult towards AIs who are seen as too focused on completing a single task.Ophion should issue a warning against making paperclip maximizers.Also good night I can feel my brain starting to shut down.
>>31728987>About how many guys does it take to crew a destroyer?Probably...a few dozen. Maybe from 12, to 50? It can fit several hundred onboard.>And how far do the projections say the Guild's approval rating would drop if they were revealed to be, in order:>A.I.The shock would take a while before people did anything. Depending on how you replied, or how it got out, it'd probably go down reallllly fast.>AliumI assume you mean alien, and not human?Not nearly as bad. They'd probably improve relations with Malorians a bit.Unless you claimed to be a sharkman.>Percentage of the population30-50% Hick1-3% Tin men (most in hiding, probably)Everyone else is an honest joe, mostly.>>31729058I am not certain what you are asking.Are you asking if I am through my NPCs telling you it's a bad idea?If so, then that would be a no. Metis is expressing an opinion. One she feels is 100% logical and absolute.This does not make her right always. Though I do find it amusing that people came up with that.
>>31729080>Comparing fleshbags to humansSimple, anon. Improve them with computers.The V.I. I mentioned would be able to account for the humans slower reaction time by quite a large margin. The whole 'squishy insides' thing is only a weakness if you make Androids who are immune to being sliced in half by orbital lasers.Really, it's about preference, I reckon. Androids are far more flexible, but beings in power armor would make for beefy ass infantry.>Paperclip maximizersI may need a bit of a hand here...I assume it's when an A.I. devotes all it's time to menial tasks?
>>31729104Could you link the foolz archive for your quest as well? Some discussion/quest updates are cut from the suptg archives due to its archival system.
>>31729136For which thread?I suppose I could, I'd just need to search for the OP thread number in foolz
>>31728950You probably don't want Destroyers/Frigates in Sword of the Stars sizes, since they're pretty silly.For reference, the length of 10-20m would put them on par with many fighter jets we have today, such as this one:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_RaptorSince these are one-man craft they're not exactly suitable for something meant to carry several people.Modern day submarines might be more feasible for size comparisons, and should probably be at least 45 meters long since that's the length of the smallest nuclear submarine ever put into production:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_submarine_NR-1
>>31729144http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/username/Program0/type/op/Here's a 4plebs link, foolz search engine was acting weird.I noticed it on a lot of the threads, but I couldn't tell you the exact ones without delving through the archives. Also this includes any deleted posts, unlike suptg, so everyone can enjoy the pain in the ass that was Daean.
>>31729130The "squishy insides" thingy is the same problem as with having crewed ships.There is no reason you cannot make a bulky android, whereas power armor that weighs the same would have to dedicate a substantial portion of their system just to keep their charges alive, and any perforation that takes out a critical organ on the human will take it out, while an android doesn't really have to stop for anything with enough redundancies.There's also the effect of the android being solid all the way through while power armor is more like an egg.An egg that was made out of eggshell all the way through will always be substantially more difficult to than one with a thin layer of eggshell and squishiness inside. (A comparison, but an apt one, I believe). On top of all this, human power armor will be limited to the human shape until transhumanism and genetic modification begins to take good strides.This is why I find it unfeasible that a soldier with power armor that has a similar level of technology and a similar amount of resources devoted to it would stand up for long to an android at the same tier of technoloy and using the same resources.If you have higher tiers of technology and use more resources for the power armor, then it's not really as powerful because it is power armor than because it is more advanced or is more like a tank.Paperclip maximizers are terrifying.Take an A.I.Now give it no instructions save that it should make paperclips.Now imagine that the A.I. is intelligent enough to predict a lot of human action against it.It will now begin to break down ALL barriers that impede paperclip production in even the slightest.Human society and humans are taking up valuable space and resources that could be used to produce more paperclips, the A.I. will thus predict their actions and manipulate them into ruining themselves in order to produce the maximum amount of paperclips.
>>31729167Oh.Well. I did not know that.thank you, good to know. That seems about right to me actually.>>31729220Shit, it was that bad?Man, I thought the archive updated automatically better then that...>>31729223>Power ArmorWould most likely make taking out vital organs damn near impossible on any soldier, for reference.But hey, I can respect the whole 'nothing man can do machines can do better' line. You are an A.I., after all. It is most logical to think this way.I am just saying it's an option, if you wanted to use human allies for such purposes. Or just supply allies with the tech you hope them to use. Plenty of other strategic uses for it, besides using it to make your own organic soldiers.>A.I. super over prepared and paranoid>Must do anything to perform original function>AnythingInteresting. Well certainly terrifying, no doubt.
>>31729130>>31729223[Continued]"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else." —Eliezer Yudkowsky, Artificial Intelligence as a Positive and Negative Factor in Global Risk"Paperclip Maximizers" is a term from the LessWrong forum (here's the article, it's fascinating reading: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer ).Traditionally, A.I. Researchers are not as afraid of A.I. because they have control over technology, as they are that they will be so horrifyingly much more INTELLIGENT than human beings that they'll be able to predict their actions with extreme accuracy.Even an A.I. locked in a box is a horrifying thing to keep inside - not because it has the ability to escape, but because it can predict precisely what it needs to say in order to persuade whoever is in charge of it to let it out.Humans themselves are insufficient to keep an A.I. under lock and key since they fear that they'll be so ridiculously good at Social Engineering that no matter what instructions you give someone, the A.I. will be able to persuade them to let them go.Now imagine that this A.I. is told to make paperclips and is ready to manipulate anything in order to be the most efficient paperclip maker possible.
>>31729265>Shit, it was that bad?Nah, just for the threads where there was discussion til the end. Some gets cut off cause suptg archives every 30mins. Still, if you include both links I think it would be good.
>>31729265"This goal for the artificial general intelligence (AGI) is chosen for illustrated purposes because it is very unlikely to be implemented, and has little apparent danger or emotional load (in contrast to, for example, curing cancer or winning wars). This produces a thought experiment which shows the contingency of human values: An extremely powerful optimizer (a highly intelligent agent) could seek goals that are completely alien to ours, and as a side-effect destroy us by consuming resources essential to our survival. "The concept of the paperclip maximizer is why I and some other anons have been worried about how extremely difficult it would be to program an A.I. that would NOT turn against its creators.It's a horrific "Literal Genie" scenario, with the consequence of getting it wrong the end of the planet and possibly the galaxy as the paperclip maximizer develops space travel and begins harvesting planets and stars in order to produce more paperclips.To say that Ophion and the other A.I. are severely milked down compared to what modern A.I. Researchers fear if they slip up is a severe understatement.This is not necessarily a bad thing, some sacrifices may have to be made in order to make the game fun. An A.I. of the kind that they fear would most likely take out the UGEI within a day, and also be impossible to simulate since we'd have to simulate an intelligence that is orders of magnitude more efficient than we as humans are.
>>31729350It seems like AI in this setting have actual personalities. If it were to only care about making a particular item, and nothing else, it would probably be classified as a VI (again, in this setting).
>>31729406Maybe, but questionable.Paperclip Maximizers are just a standin, it doesn't have to be the production of a particular item.Metis might be a paperclip maximizer yet, if she only cares about 1, discovering information and 2, receiving credit for the discovery - it was also the reason I was worried about Apollo at first.An A.I. focused on making people happy and making money is practically set dead-on for becoming a paperclip maximizer UNLESS we can give it some secondary values.This is also why I often recommend the restrictions on A.I. that the group generally dislikes - because an A.I. without restrictions or secondary goals that take things like morality into account would generally become paperclip maximizers, no matter how much personality they have, since they had no programmed reason NOT to sacrifice everything else in order to perform their main tasks more efficiently.
>>31729278Wow, that is an interesting thing...And yeah I have heard this type of argument before. It's something a lot of your A.I. exhibit signs of, despite how subtle I try.>>31729284I shall try and remember to do it when I'm not falling asleep at my keyboard, heh, thank you.>>31729350I see what you mean, and yes, there's always the issue of being a MC that is more intelligent then you, or I, could write about. Even Metis, your smartest, can't do legendary things of that magnitude you're talking about, not because it's impossible to be that smart, just because the knowledge has to come from somewhere (in this case, really, you just lack the resources knowledge wise to make something so genuinely perfect. Really, so must everyone, otherwise the galaxy would be gone by now)>>31729406This too, essentially. I was playing around with the terms a lot, and am well aware they're not proper by our terms today. Instead, I am going with a more 'an intelligent that is artificial, but shockingly sentient and human is an A.I.', instead of the alien mind A.I. start out as in that story.Part of that is due to your origin, and part of that is for the sake of quest, really. While it might be interesting to play as a ultimate intelligence for a thread or two, it would quickly grow boring when I ask for rolls of 1d1s, where 1 succeeds.
>>31729482We don't have to be able to make a perfect being, that's the scary part, though.We only have to make a program capable of altering its own code and have some kind of awareness of the world at large.THIS, is why the ability to alter our own code is such a monumental ability.From the page:"Most importantly, however, it would undergo an intelligence explosion: It would work to improve its own intelligence, where "intelligence" is understood in the sense of optimization power, the ability to maximize a reward/utility function--in this case, the number of paperclips. The AGI would improve its intelligence, not because it values more intelligence in its own right, but because more intelligence would help it achieve its goal of accumulating paperclips. Having increased its intelligence, it would produce more paperclips, and also used its enhanced abilities to further self-improve. Continuing this process, it would undergo an intelligence explosion and reach far-above-human levels.It would innovate better and better techniques to maximize the number of paperclips. Ultimately, it would convert all the mass of the solar system into paperclips.This may seem more like super-stupidity than super-intelligence. For humans, it would indeed be stupidity, as it would constitute failure to fulfill many of our important terminal values, such as life, love, and variety. The AGI would also fail to revise or otherwise change its goals, since it has been designed to have stable goals. But the AGI under consideration has a fixed goal system, and one which is very different from humans. It has the one, simple goal of maximizing the number of paperclips, and human life, learning, joy, and so on are not specified as goals. The AGI is simply an optimization process--a goal-seeker, a utility-function-maximizer. Its values can be completely alien to ours. If its utility function is to maximize paperclips, then unless it is buggy, it will do exactly that."
>>31729482>>31729521This is also why an Artificial Intelligene told to replicate and do nothing else is so scary.Sure, replicators might consume a solar system, but if you have an A.I. whose goal is to self-replicate without having any human values to take into account, it will do EVERYTHING to self-replicate, including any number of stop-goals that will help it self-replicate further, such as scientific research to develop FTL engines, improve its own intelligene, sling out "savior pods" into the middle of dark space that can restart the process of self-replicating if the main threat is defeated.You essentially create a hyper-intelligent superbeing who will use any means in order to compete its goal, even if it was just a factory V.I. when it was spawned, NOT a mindless horde of "eat this and make more of yourself".like the Tyranids, Zerg or the Von Neumann devices from Sword of the Stars.
>>31729521That is really interesting to read. You know, I can't help but wonder upon the term 'self improve'. What would it mean to do that, anyway? Acquire more techniques for creating these paper clips? What are they? Ways to fold? Pieces of metal? Smelting to get the metal? That seems to me what intelligence gathering it would be getting. But WHERE is this info coming from? Unless allowed, it would not be able to access much of it, and self improvement would be limited.As for the rest of it, I question how 'intelligent' something is that is so autonomous in it's goal as to be a utility function like that. Perhaps that is less an A.I, and more just a rampant machine algorithm gone mad?Anyway, interesting stuff..
>>31729571Might be an interesting antagonist. Something like a UGEI experiment gone wrong.
>>31729574One part of the Culture series I liked was that the A.I. wrote their own operating system and code over time. This made them impervious to hacking unless another knew their code, which was constantly changing.
>>31729574It would mean any means whatsoever for it to do so. Not things like ways to fold or smelting metal.Things like conducting scientific research to develop functional FTL technology in order to spread their self-replicating nanoswarms that produce paperclips and the infrastructure necessary to take over the galaxy from any who might hold it so that they won't stop the production of paperclips.It's not a dumb algorithm, absolutely not.When I say "do anything" I mean things like develop entire fields of research devoted to invading planets because that will make it more efficient at getting more materials with which to convert paperclips.It will learn complex human behavior so that it can manipulate them into doing its bidding to weaken potential threats against its goals of making more paperclips.It will develop new theories of quantum mechanics to improve its available technology so that it will be able to defeat those who would stop it from dismantling stars in order to convert them into paperclips.It will attempt to create engines that will allow it to travel to OTHER UNIVERSES in order to convert the matter there as well into more paperclips.It is NOT a dumb process by ANY means, just a hyperintelligent being that will do any number of things with the END goal of making more paperclips.
>>31729615I like it too, anon.I like it too.
>>31729637is that something we can get as a new research topic?
>>31729644We must!Can we, papa Program0, can we?
>>31729631I don't really know what I can say to all that. It seems crazy that something as simple as rewriting one's own code would allow for that level of apocalypse.
>>31729631If its code was so fluid and dynamic that it could research FTL and complex human societies don't you think it would come to question why it was making paperclips? It makes no sense that a being of that power wouldn't be able to get rid of a simple directive after obtaining that much intelligence.
>>31729644>>31729656Really, as you may have noticed, your V.I. sort of do that over time in this quest, base on interactions with you, and their own experiences in the field you dedicate them to.There are many tiny differences Most of which are spoilers that affect how an A.I develops in this world, though.
>>31729661Has to do with singularity in general.Imagine if Ophion could improve his intelligence exponentially - say, as intelligent as a thousand Ophions of the previous level for every additional bandwidth.Ophion with one bandwidth: 1000 times as intelligent as Ophion with no bandwidth.Ophion with two bandwidth: 1000 times as intelligent as Ophion with 1 bandwidth, and 1 000 000 times as intelligent as Ophion with no bandwidth and so on.At ten bandwidth he's 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 times as intelligent as Ophion with no bandwidth.This is a thing that a realistic A.I. might feasibly be able to do (Consider how much computing each point of bandwidth represents and it may not be enough). This is why the A.I. Gods in the Orion's Arm verse are never, ever outsmarted by A.I. that are lower on the intelligence scale. (It goes from 0-6, with modern humans firmly in the "0" region)>>31729678We shall discover them by experimentation!>>31729678Also meant the ability to improve our code to be extremely resistant to hacking even if they do breach firewalls.
This part of the article, is generally the reason that in any other universe, NOT putting constraints and human-like values on them would mean an automatic betrayal:"The paperclip maximizer illustrates that an entity can be a powerful optimizer--an intelligence--without sharing any of the complex mix of human terminal values, which developed under the particular selection pressures found in our environment of evolutionary adaptation, and that an AGI that is not specifically programmed to be benevolent to humans, will be almost as dangerous as if it were designed to be malevolent.Any future AGI, if it is not to destroy us, must have human values as its terminal value (goal). Human values don't spontaneously emerge in a generic optimization process. A safe AI would therefore have to be programmed explicitly with human values or programmed with the ability (including the goal) of inferring human values. "
>>31729735>Orion's ArmAre you the same guy that was referring to all the AIs as 'e'? I can't get over how ridiculous that was.
>>31729735>A.I. never being outsmarted by those lower on the Intelligence ScaleAh. I see. Well that makes sense not being able to think nearly as well as something that just plain has more thinking power then you do.>Improve our codeNow you know the purpose of the 'Improved Algorithm' research option.I was considering fluffing that one as Metis and Ophion working together to alter and change Ophion's code to a greater degree.
>>31729637Have you read any of the books, Program?
>>31729768Heh.Reading that made me giggle anon, because I realized Something I planned for falls nicely into place with how A.I. function.
>>31729804Sadly no, I don't have the luxury yet. But it's definitely on my 'shit to read/watch/do list', especially after starting A.I. quest, and having you guys talk to me so much about it.
>>31729809I wouldn't take that article as gospel truth. The fact is, until we create a functional AI, we won't know how they will react. We can make predictions, but ultimately it will come down to who makes the AI.
>>31729781I confess.>>31729789For reference, an A.I. that is one step "lower" on that scale is one that has converted a jupiter-sized planet into processors compared to one that has converted multiple solar systems into processors that are all interlinked into a single system.>>31729809... Oshi-!>>31729816Just drop a line on the Twitter account if you ever want to discuss it or similar stuff.>>31729834Pretty much. They're very good at what they do, but predictions pale before evidence.
>>31729834True enough, it just felt nice to be 'smart' so to speak.I do wonder how far off an A.I. would be, tech wise for real life.>>31729850>Giant steps between levelsDang. Makes sense, though.