Rolled 13

>>31504335
Can't die, have more important things to be doing.

Rolled 6

>>31504335
Rolling to not? die.

Rolled 19

>>31504335
>inb4 nat 1

Rolled 6

>>31504335
The harem is around, so don't make them worry.

>>31504406
Rider made us promise before we left. Can't let her down.

How many people do we know of that could be called Nameless and use Grail Muck knives?

Shirou does.

Crap, I conked out right as we ambushed Zouken. To ze archive!

>>31504507
What if Shirou was everyone's Servant? Berserker Shirou, Caster Shirou, Lancer Shirou (he's got the necessary Luck stat).

Also I'm incredibly smug that we saw this coming over 50 threads ago.

>>31504386
OK

>>31504607

Out of everything else.

Still don't have a clue what else is going on or happening.

Rolled 4

>>31504394
Trace the fuck on

Our body will be made of swords

Fuck yes, let's do this

>>31504607
>we saw this coming over 50 threads ago
Yeah, good job on the totally non-obvious plot twist, AC-Guy. It's not like we deliberately walked into it just because we were so sick of trying to ask people what the fuck was going on and being met only with useless cryptic bullshit, either.

Rolled 1

>>31504730
You again?

Go stick your dick back in your mouth. Adults are actually enjoying the thread here without your whining.

>>31504730

Stop whining.

This shirou has been gravitating towards HF Shirou with how he prioritises his friends and allies over innocents, accumulating in the sacrifice of the innocent for the trap and using the gunk on Zouken.

>>31504631
Just knowing that fits a lot into place. We've got three of this puzzle's corners.

Avenger's bit at the end of the last thread suggests that they needed Shirou to play himself-the idealistic naive hero. Instead he went Heaven's Feel and rejected those ideals in favor of living for himself. Oh sure he's doing everything for his circle of friends and lovers, but he's made a conscious choice to instead of parroting a broken ideal.

Long story short: Team Avenger's plan is off, now it comes down to swordbeams.

And we're really fucking good at swordbeams.

>>31504730
>being met only with useless cryptic bullshit
I don't know what you're talking about. Rin and Ilya have always been very upfront about how they are completely incapable of helping us.

>>31504838
>Long story short: Team Avenger's plan is off, now it comes down to swordbeams.

Thats like the only silver lining in this though I'm alright with how this turned out.

>>31504806
>prioritises his friends and allies over innocents
Except he's never done this.
>the sacrifice of the innocent for the trap
We don't even know if Zouken was killing people, or if we could have actually prevented it if he was.
>using the gunk on Zouken
I didn't see Archer offering any other means to actually kill him.
Which of course raises the question of why he wanted to ambush Zouken in the first place, given that he didn't know we had the grail muck.

>>31504838
>We've got three of this puzzle's corners
Too bad the puzzle's actually a circle.

File: 1397620110950.jpg-(46 KB, 640x480, Wheel of Morality.jpg)

46 KB JPG

Rolled 9

Wheel of Misery, turn, turn, turn!
Which of AC-Guy's possessions has just burned?

>[ ] The fire is on fire.
>[ ] Couch
>[ ] Dog piss
>[ ] This Router
>[ ] Car
>[ ] Dinner
>[ ] Computer desktop
>[ ] Bath tub
>[ ] AC-Quest notes
>[ ] Non-lesbian love interest
>[ ] Metaphysics notes
>[ ] College carreer
>[ ] All of the above
>[ ] None

>>31505077
For... Future use, of course.

>>31505077
Fuck off.

I stare at where my arm should be, and focus. Slowly, painfully slow, it fades back into existence.

Better.

I look up at Avenger and Gilgamesh, who seem to be bickering about something. I would say their guard was down, but I doubt they really consider us a threat.

Archer seems to be mentally preparing himself for something as he slowly turns his back to my assembled group and ignores the stream of questions as everyone tries to talk at the same time.

Then I stand up, and the noise seems to drop considerably. Even Avenger seems shocked.

".... Didn't you just rip his heart out?" Gilgamesh asks slowly, looking down at me. "Didn't he also just have a gaping chest wound?"

"He never had a heart." Avenger responds, his calm demeanor clearly straining. "And he should be dead. That core was the only thing keeping him alive." He begins walking down the stairs, Gilgamesh trailing behind him as they slowly approach me. I try to keep my knees from shaking, since standing is a lot harder than it was a few minutes ago. "How are you standing?"

"On my legs." I respond with as much sarcasm as I can muster. It's out of my mouth before I even realize what I'm saying.

He stares at me from his position at the bottom of the stairs for an uncomfortably long time. "You should be fading." He hesites, eyes suddenly wide. "Wait, is that what's happening?! He shouldn't be strong enough to hold you here!"

"What the fuck are you even talking about?" Lancer yells from by the door. "What is happening?! Zouken tries to kill Caster, Shirou disappears, and TWO teams were waiting in the same place to ambush the same guy without realizing the other one was there?!"

"Lancer, stay calm. We need to-" Saber begins to try and explain, but Lancer is clearly having none of it.

"Calm my ass! HIS HEART JUST EXPLODED INTO EVIL TAR!"

I open my mouth to try and say something, but I see something moving on the level above. Assassin.

[DC16 Combat]

Rolled 13

>>31505167

FUCK OFF ASSASSIN

Rolled 5

>>31505167

nb4 nat 1

Rolled 19

>>31505167
NIGGER DICK FUCK SHIT

Rolled 8

>>31505167

>>31505223
IT'S GRAM TIME!!!

Rolled 4

>>31505167
>roll nat 20 to contract with Assassin

>>31505167
>He shouldn't be strong enough to hold you here!
WHO?
>but Lancer is clearly having none of it.
I'm with Lancer here. SOMEONE is going to explain this bullshit.

>He shouldn't be strong enough to hold you here!


Is it the Crest Archer gave us?

Rolled 5

>>31505452

But how does he know of the link between us and archer?

Also Archer has independence for up to a week by himself. He won't just start fading away like that.

>>31505452
My money's on Merlin or Kirei.
Broserker is also a likely candidate, but the "hows" elude me.

>>31505167
>"Calm my ass! HIS HEART JUST EXPLODED INTO EVIL TAR!"
Chill out Lancer. If Avenger's telling the truth (always question this) no it didn't, because there wasn't a heart there in the first place.

>>31505328
It's Merlin or Kirei. No other male characters would have the knowledge or interest in helping Shirou.

>implying there are make characters in FSN

He's directly above me, watching.

Nobody else has noticed him yet, as he slips closer to the edge, but I'm in position to move against him. All I have to do is jump about twenty feet straight into the air and attack him.

Before I can question the plausibility of the plan, I'm already airborn. I grab Assassin and drag him over the rail as I begin to fall again, twisting him beneath me with an elbow for the crash below. He lets out a small noise of pain and surprise when we hit, but he manages to worm out from underneath me afterwards.

It seems like every move I make, my body gets heavier. I see my arm trying to fade again, and I force it back. As I do, I meet Saber's eye, and I can tell she saw it that time from the look of concern and confusion on her face.

Behind me, Avenger I notice Avenger's talking again. "-learly it's not stable anymore now that my anchor is gone. He needs to die before it can influence him further."

Turning, I see That Gilgamesh is opening his gate again, with the rings forming behind him. Eight weapons... can I be fast enough to stop them?

[DC15 Magecraft]

Rolled 2

>>31505865

Rolled 8

>>31505865

Rolled 12

>>31505865
>DC15
Oh come on, we had a training session and everything.

Rolled 5

>>31505865

Rolled 7

>>31505865
Go dice

Rolled 19

>>31505865
This is for that goddamn bike, you asshole.

Rolled 2

>>31505865

Rolled 13

>>31505865
C'mon, not fucky

Rolled 17

>>31505865
>you passed two checks in a row?
>have another
>I hope you weren't expected any of the other servants or masters that you're allied with to help

Rolled 12

>>31505874
>>31505907
>>31505910
>>31505912

Fark

Rolled 11

>>31505939
yup
and apparently speed-tracing, which we practised and perfected already, is harder than defying Gaia and forcing our existence upon the world through sheer willpower

Rolled 13

Welp, at least no Critfails were rolled...

File: 1397622508303.jpg-(130 KB, 640x718, Didja hear that Ridah.jpg)

130 KB JPG

>>31506042
Alternatively: Gilgamesh is actually that good.

And he IS that good.

We are going to die and I love it.

>>31506302
I wonder what would've happened had we failed to not-die check at the beginning. Hell, it might've given us some insight into who we're bonded to, and it probably would've let us skip the awful fights.

>>31506302
>To succeed, you first need to fail and destroy the source of your Shadow, and kill yourself.

We just have to make sure we die in a way that's functional, as opposed to just dying in general.

I'm a little worried about keeling over given the
>"[...] clearly it's not stable anymore now that my anchor is gone. He needs to die before it can influence him further."
so it'd be nice if we could stick around long enough to get a handle on what the hell Avenger's plan actually entails first.

I start to trace them, seeing the lines form in my head. I start to form them, throwing them as quickly as I can. Two of them fizzle before they get very far, another misses it's target. The others connect, but three swords are still coming at me. I focus on forming another blade from the hilt for my hand, but my arm's gone again. And the blades-

Are deflected by Saber as she lands in front of me. I didn't even see her move. Is she that much more powerful now with Rin? Or am I just that weak?

I feel my legs trying to give beneath me. "Shirou?" Saber begins, not looking at me. Eye on the opponent. "Are you alright?"

"I'm fi-"

"Bullshit." The interruption surprises me, but not as much as the fact that Lancer and Archer both said to together.

"Your arm is GONE." Lancer accuses from behind me. "That isn't 'fine'."

"You need to take Shirou and retreat." Archer commands, not looking at any of us. "Staying here can't end well."

".... They're outnumbered. We can hardly be better prepared than this." Caster comments, surprised.

"Gilgamesh negates the number advantage. There's only two of us who can compete with that, and one of them is trying to die on you. And once I'm dead he's going to be your only option."

>>31506660

Avenger looks to Archer. "So what, you're betraying us?"

"Betrayal seems to be a running thing with Archers at this point. I've betrayed myself, I've betrayed Rin. Hell, I betrayed my own plans to betray myself by backstabbing MYSELF again!" He trows up his hands. "That has to be some kind of record."

"And now what?" Lancer comments. "You die horribly to try and give us a chance to escape?"

"Actually, I was planning to wedge my foot up his-" He points to Gilgamesh, looking back as Lancer like he's ignoring his declared target. "-ass, and I figured that You lot would like to be somewhere other than ground zero when that happened, given the sickly little kid you have to worry about."

Avenger looks infuriated by the turn of events, and Gilgamesh more so. But the way things are....

[ ] Leave Archer.
[ ] Other(?)

File: 1397623714828.gif-(274 KB, 400x227, 1371097359749.gif)

274 KB GIF

>>31506685
>Try and project ourselves a Heart for a minute

>>31506685
Trace a sword, jam it in your leg and anchor your leg to this plane of existence through that. Then try to fight again.

>>31506685
"Where's my goddamn body Avenger."

>>31506685

I vote for >>31506733.

>>31506733
Fuck it, project a new heart

>>31506685
>[X] Take rainbow sword from rin, shove it in your chest.

what? we have a sword shaved hole/imprint in our soul right? ANd we're losing stability, I'm anything is gonna save us it's that.

>>31506685
Contract with Rin. By kissing her.
>>31506733
>>31506762
>>31506797
We have bigger problems that the lack of a heart.

>>31506733
Sure, why not?

>>31506755
In the ground. Shirou never made it out of that Fire.

Remember when he made that wish too live? His soul got up, his body didn't.

>>31506685
Set the building on fire.

>>31506685
Noooo, Broserker 2: Archer Boogaloo

File: 1397623947341.jpg-(78 KB, 600x910, DymPj.jpg)

78 KB JPG

>>31506814
They can wait until we have a heart again.

We started fading out when we lost it. So, logically, if we replace it, we'll stop fading out.

>>31506685
>>31506660
So is Assassin just chilling here right now?

I'm not entirely sure why we don't just rush them right now. We fall back with say Bazette and Rin, let the Servants gank Gilgamesh.

>>31506733
Has Shirou even analysed a heart?

>>31506685
[X] I am the heart of my Forge.

>>31506800
I really like this idea. It might kind of work on a magical level, and it fits so damn well on a thematic level. Let's do it.

>>31506685
Reach for Avalon. If it's ever going to conveniently appear, now's the time.

If that fails we can leave Archer.

>>31506800
Does anyone familiar with Nasu know if this would actually work?

It soundsjust Shounen enough to win us this fight.

>>31506685
"Oh, Archer, fuck off with the melodrama. Rather than climb up on your cross, let's try to end this here"

>>31506685
>[ ] Other (Contract with Assassin)
>Use temporary simac body to stabilize our existence

Throwing out whatever options now, and seeing what will stick.

Would Gil be able to hijack the crystal sword just by looking at it?

>>31506839
wait. Fuck is this true.

>>31506800
changing my vote for this

>>31506858
The heart was acting as the core of stability.

Assuming I'm right>>31506839
Shirou died during the fire, the grail just made him a Mudbody to puppet. His real body got possesed by avenger.

File: 1397624299401.png-(106 KB, 978x571, t0COTpk.png)

106 KB PNG

>>31506800
Wait

Waiiitt...


Let's take the sword... And project a heart around it.


THEN stab it into our chest!

There's no way this can get worse!

Rolled 4

>>31506839

....Is that why we could never find avalon in our body?

OUR BODY IS AVALON? THATS WHY THERES NO AVALON INSIDE.

>>31506973
...what? That's not even remotely close to how Gate of Babylon works.

>>31507025
Yep, which means even thought our origin isn't just Sword, It's the Sword of folly. It also means that, Being a natural sheath, stabing ourselves with the magic sword might actually work.

>>31507024
Avalon is in Avenger imo

>>31506733
I don't see how that would ever work using projection. Shirou does swords, not biology.

Now, regrowing a new heart via swordification I could see if it wouldn't take so goddamned long to finish.

>>31507025
...We did have a sword-shaped hole.
...Fuck.

>>31506874
>>31506800
Sweet jesus.

>>31506918
Probably not. Combat in Nasu is about concepts: Can a shield-to-stop-any-spear block a spear-that-hits-first and that sort of thing.

For that to work, Shirou would literally have to have been powered by a magic sword before. Or maybe not, protagonists bending the rules is another point of the franchise. But probably this wouldn't work.

Rolled 3

>>31506927

Fucking this.

>>31507024
Either it works and everything's peachy, or we confuse the fuck out of everyone when we stab ourselves in the chest with a heart. It's a win-win.

>>31506973
No, Gate of Babylon doesn't copy things. It's an armory containing all the weapons he owns, not a photocopy machine.

>>31507098
Avalon. And his origin is sword. What else would work?

>>31507081
Nah avenger is in our body, and we're a projection based off of Avalon, and grail mud to make it hold.

File: 1397624725237.jpg-(20 KB, 321x350, midichlorians made of swords.jpg)

20 KB JPG

>>31507098
This Shirou seems to be the physical embodiment of the concept of Sheathes. Or he is a sheath. We should stab Rin's concept sword into our concept sheath.

It's like poetry.

>>31507151
Well, an actual weapon with healing powers would do it. It looks like we just need something to hold Shirou together.

I've suggested tracing Avalon itself, but barring that, does anyone know a healing relic or weapon?

>>31507209
Or have Archer stab us with his "sword".

In all seriousness, why not have Saber stab us with Excalibur instead?

File: 1397624836384.jpg-(28 KB, 640x368, 1385931477722.jpg)

28 KB JPG

>>31507082
It's simple.


We project our heart.... But swordified.

I'm telling you, this is the best plan.

Okay, on the insert rainbow sword think. I see one of four things happening.

1) we explode

2) it fixes us.

3) we fuse with it becoming a living sword.

4) It causes us to project our orgin "the sword of folly" Which, due to us being fake, is a fake sword. But, the unlimited prana from the rainbow, lets us do it anyway. In which cause we will have literally written our soul into reality.

Rolled 18

>>31507209
>Rin stabbing her concept sword into Shirou's concept sheath.

That's pretty backwards there isn't it?

Boss, are these things we can attempt? Or are we just spinning our swords?
er wheels

We're trying to die for some reason, Avenger wants us dead, and the best plan anyone can think of is to stand there while we're incapable of winning a direct confrontation.

If Archer can't pop UBW and Saber doesn't have Avalon, WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION WHERE GILGAMESH IS REMOTELY KILL-ABLE.

>>31507256
Because that would cause Avalon to revert into it's sheath state. Killing us.

File: 1397624957056.jpg-(156 KB, 860x1332, 3538513-5384985447-Kensh.jpg)

156 KB JPG

>>31507258

Heart of Sword

>>31507232
We're not falling apart because there's an injury breaking us apart, we're falling apart because there's no power source keeping us together. Avenger took out his 'anchor', and expected us to keel over immediately because he more or less popped out the battery.

Which is kind of why I like the Jeweled Sword plan, as wacky as it is, since it's basically the best possible replacement power source, and has a reasonably high compatibility given SWORD.

>>31507310
I thought we wanted to "die"?

We are retarded. Wow. I just realized Merlin was talking about THIS EXACT SITUATION in thread 6.

>"Right then, the sheath needs a sword, right? That’s part of why the curse is in there, but luckily you seem to have adapted well to it." He hesitates. "A mite too well actually. I wonder if you're what I intended to receive the gift." He sighs and shakes his head. "I suppose it's too late for such concerns. Listen, Lock and Key, Sword and Sheath. To succeed, you first need to fail and destroy the source of your Shadow, and kill yourself. Do you understand?"

>>31507295
>We're trying to die for some reason, Avenger wants us dead, and the best plan anyone can think of is to stand there while we're incapable of winning a direct confrontation.
Nah, the plan is to either project a heart, our stab ourselves with Rainbow Blade.
>If Archer can't pop UBW and Saber doesn't have Avalon, WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION WHERE GILGAMESH IS REMOTELY KILL-ABLE.

We're avalon, and Archer is about to go UBW.

>>31507365

....So do we need Saber to stab us?

>>31507350
Nah we have to kill ourself. Which is Avenger. Because Avenger zombie possesed our dead body.

We've already failed and destroyed our source of darkness, when we killed Zouken we failed. And when the heartlump was removed, so was the darkness.

>>31507334
Didn't Rin tell us that the Jeweled Sword could basically be used for swordbeams? Trying to use a nitro engine in place of a water pump sounds like a fantastically awful idea.

>>31507365
>>31507410

>>31507422
Worse than our other fantastically awful options?

>>31507422
At this point our soul is literally made to hold a sword-beam weapon. Technically excalibur, but that would kill us.

>>31507422
>"So we didn't just get massive mana battery?"

>"We sort-of did?" She answers slowly. "I just don't know how I could use it with that sort of finesse."

The only reason Rin seems concerned about her ability to use it as a battery is lack of compatibility.

This is not an issue I'd imagine Shirou's inner workings would end up running into.

>>31507366

If Archer could UBW, he wouldn't be telling us to survive so we could do it to Gilgamesh. This EXACT situation happened in the UBW route in the VN.

>>31507365
>>31507382

I'm pretty sure we needed to get Avenger to decontaminate us, so we could Rule Breaker him without dieing from lack of grail mud immunity.

Because Avenger has already said more than once he didn't want to be the villain, and that's how the Sakura/Grail link was broke in Heaven's Feel.

>>31507465

I fail to see how retreating and healing up is a terrible option. We now have one major threat to deal with, and it wouldn't be hard for us to swing it either.

is anybody gonna vote? We only have like three up there.

>So. We're some sort of illusion thing.

>We have, but don't have Avalon.

>Our location reads as avenger's location.

...Yep, Avenger definitely stole our dead body.

File: 1397625531204.jpg-(575 KB, 1369x1948, She can gate my babylon a(...).jpg)

575 KB JPG

>>31507465
...Touche. Have a femGil.

>>31507504
No, it's a lack of "how does this even work", not compatibility. More compatibility wouldn't help, her family's been working towards this for generations, it's literally their birthright. The problem is that it's alien techmagic, and ludicrously powerful.

Rolled 2

>>31507517

We're discussing incredibly awesome and/or stupid options nigger!

>>31507587
She does Jewels. Shirou does swords, and gets an instinctive understanding of their inner workings. Which do you think can handle it better?

>>31507507
>I fail to see how retreating and healing up is a terrible option. We now have one major threat to deal with, and it wouldn't be hard for us to swing it either.
If Archer thinks he has a chance of defeating Gilgamesh here and now, there's not really any reason not to have our posse of Servants jump Avenger and Assassin.

>>31507619
You don't understand how out of whack the Jewel sword is. Shirou can't understand it when he traces it in HF and even Archer's arm can't understand it.

>>31507619
Isn't it Rin? I thought Shirou messing around with it (with Rin admittedly) is what catapults them on their Excellent Adventure while hollow ataraxia is going on.

>>3150759

FUck it.

OUr options so far are:

[ ] Leave Archer.
[ ] Try and project a (sword?) heart.
[ ] Take Rainbow sword, but it in the slot in you soul.
[ ] Take Excalibur, slot it into soul.Will probably kill us
[ ] I am the heart of my Forge.
[ ] Other (Contract with Assassin)
[ ] Other(?)

>>31507662
Honestly, this retarded stabbing ourselves with the Jewel sword plan makes more sense than whatever the fuck is going on with Shirou and Avenger. Let's do it.

>>31507648
True. According this. We had ought to focus on making us a new heart. Then we can get in the fight too.

>>31507689
>[ ] Take Excalibur, slot it into soul.Will probably kill us

File: 1397625991465.jpg-(7 KB, 250x250, Costanza.jpg)

7 KB JPG

>>31507662
Shirou also can't understand his fucked up, Sword of folly origin. Coincidence?

>>31507689
Set the damn building on fire.

>>31507714
The heart isn't the issue. The issue is that we're fading out of existence. Because real Shirou became avenger, we're a copy of him running on Avalon XP.

>>31507790
>>31507764
>>31507691

Let's just fuck everything up as spectacularly as possible and hope it works.

File: 1397626272550.jpg-(109 KB, 1280x720, 1374742134439.jpg)

109 KB JPG

>>31507823
So...


Project swordified heart around Excalibur AND the Jeweled Sword, then stick it in our chest?


Because that sounds like a great idea.

>>31507648

>once I'm dead

Did you not see that? He knows he isn't going to win.

The bit where he's telling Lancer to fuck off because he has it is him SHIT TALKING.

While I suppose this whole situation is related to Wacky Plan #3 (Kill ourselves at right time to avoid or prevent something), I think Operation Sword Heart is probably the least crazy of our options right now.

Rolled 6

>>31507689
> [x ] Take Excalibur, slot it into soul.Will probably kill us.

Eh don't worry, we won't die even if we're killed.

So AC-Guy's been gone for about an hour.

What do you think the odds are he saw us going full-retard and said 'fuck it'?

>>31507889
>>31507760
Why would you choose this option instead of the Jewel Sword? At least the Jewel Sword can work as a prana battery.

>>31507941
That, or he's going "FINALLY!" and breaking out the champagne.

>>31507941
That's his primary form of entertainment. If it isn't something external, our flailing probably got him gasping for breath rofling

>>31507963

Because if we are avalon...

There is only one sword shaped hole in us.

Excalibur: This hole was made for me~

>>31507968
>Breaks out the champagne
>hits himself in the eye with the pressure-launched cork
>can't finish quest from hospital

Another day in the life of AC-Guy.

>>31507963
Maybe with the idea that we have Avalon?

I'll got with >[X] Cornhole ourselves with the Jewel Sword

The way I see it, three things can happen with the "replace our heart with [one of the various ultra-magic swords]" plan:

Best case: It powers us back up and gives us the chance for a sexy combo attack with Archer so he doesn't have to sacrifice himself to speedbump Gil.

Most likely: It won't do much and we'll keel over, which isn't too different from what's happening already without our intervention.

Worst case: We shove the wrong thing in there and explode, and Taiga beats us senseless in the Dojo for being a derp.

At first it sounded retarded but it jives with what we've been told about tactical (metaphorical? Fucking Merlin, being all vague and shit.) suicide being something that would benefit us.

>>31507963
Ok look. Let me describe the ways we could fuck up the Jewel sword.

1. Our entire reality collapses.

This thing is used to connect alternate dimensions. I don't want to try stress testing it right now because it could end the entire plane of existence.

2. Prana Overload.

For all we know we might absorb the mana from a thousand dimensions and explode messily.

3. Sucked into gods knows where.

Alternate dimensions, need I say more?

>>31508002
You realize Excalibur will Hard reset Avalon right? Which will wipe us.

When Merlin said kill ourselves, he meant Kill Avenger. Who is in our body.

>>31508043
Not if we channel the prana right away in an effort to project our origin. Also, since we're sort of a demon, our "body" can adapt.

>>31508043
>1. Our entire reality collapses.
Excalibur is made from wierd-ass fairy shit, plus it might reset Avalon as others have mentioned.
>2. Prana Overload
Excalibur isn't even a prana source. It wouldn't really help us.
>Sucked into god knows where
This is the first point reworded, and it doesn't even really make sense. The Jewel Sword doesn't transport things, just prana.

>>31507941

>It's mostly because I don't see anything resembling a plan. The closest we have is people joking (or at least I hope their joking) about ramming a magic artifact designed to kill people into Shirou's chest.

>>31507968
>>31507984

>Actually, this sucks for me. Because you guys are having a hard time figuring out what you could be doing and I'm sitting over here feeling like I failed you entirely but not explaining things better, but failing to see where things could have been changed or explained more without just straight-up explaining the upcoming plot twists in detail, or giving you extremely detailed knowledge of whatever the badguys were planning.

File: 1397627171353.gif-(2.88 MB, 358x504, af0.gif)

2.88 MB GIF

AC-Guy, I summon you!

I have the sacrifice.
>Image related.

>>31508163
Excalibur =\= Jewel Sword of Zelretch.

And the Jewel Sword CAN transport things but only very tiny ones. It's basic function is opening a rip in time and space to an alternate dimension.

>>31508002
It's Avenger with the original Shirou body that has Avalon though, if all the pieces of the puzzle fit.

We need to sever that from him first (Rule Breaker), recover it while sustaining our existence, put Avalon inside us within that narrow window, then we could start thinking of how to plug weird swords into Shirou's empty chest.

Unfortunately, it's too many actions to pull off within a small window. I have doubts about pulling it off while Shirou's existence is wavering...

>>31508190
>(or at least I hope their joking)
Here's the joke.

They're not.

Personally, I'm simply voting for a tactical withdraw and hoping Archer doesn't get wasted...

>>31508190
Okay, self-swording is out, anyone got ANYTHING else?

>>31508190
I vote we leg it, we need to stabalise our selves once thats done we can save Archer from Archer.

>>31508276
Probably retreat and try not to die.

>>31508190
Okay. Avenger needed us to be the Hero. We failed by being willing to kill Zouken using the grail mud.

He ripped the grail mud out of us.

We're falling apart because this isn't a real body. It was a "demon-like" thing being sustained by Avalon, and grail mud. Thee grail mud is what held it together.

We've filled msot of merlins prophecy, now we just need to kill ourselves. IN this case, Avenger. Who is in our real body.

If we literally just projected Rule breaker, and stabbed him with it, I think we'd win.

>>31508190
>The closest we have is people joking (or at least I hope their joking) about ramming a magic artifact designed to kill people into Shirou's chest.

Word of God says our best plans right now are shit.
We might need more than one thread to figure this out.

>>31508276
Burn the fucking building!

>>31508190
also, remember us trying to rewire the Einzbern forest in order to save Berserker? We'll try anything till you swat our noses

>>31508190
>The closest we have is people joking (or at least I hope their joking) about ramming a magic artifact designed to kill people into Shirou's chest.
>implying it doesn't make perfect sense in-character
>implying it doesn't make as much sense as Shote Shirou wishing not to die somehow making a zombie Shirou that's also a sentient Grail while turning Shirou's soul into a demon based around Avalon

>>31508276
Well we could always leave Archer to fight
If we ignore mana problems, he's pretty good match for both Gil and Avenger, since he's immune to the mud

>>31508303
Right them.

[X} Project Rule Breaker. GO for Avenger.

>>31508190
So I'm going to interpret this as Shirou's instinctive knowledge of swords and sword accessories telling him this idea is bad, and let Archer have his heroic sacrifice.

>[ ] Leave Archer.

Alas, Archer surviving isn't really a thing that happens. And I'm not sure he'd want to stick around watching his way better alternate past self fuck bitches all day anyway.

>>31508190
Welp, I've got nothing.

>>31508337
Give him some time to calm down and we'd have double Shirous. Less stress in the harem

>>31508190
>>31508276

Hang on...


Right. If we're "Demon-like", as >>31508303 says, I have an idea.

We could try and pull off a "Possession" on someone. Archer would probably be easiest, but...

This way, we buy time, get a form, and potentially get out of dodge.

>>31508303
Works for me.

[x] KILL OVONGER

>>31508378
Archer. Gattai!

File: 1397627662644.jpg-(6 KB, 189x204, 1393177764590.jpg)

6 KB JPG

>>31508378
I swear the plans just keep getting worst as time goes.

>>31508399
Welcome to /tg/ when it crosses over with /a/, enjoy your stay.

>>31508378
That's an awful idea, and not how it works at all.

>>31508331
>[X} Project Rule Breaker. GO for Avenger.
Best thing about this plan is that three people are present that can simultaneously do it.
Though only Archer has the highest chance of success with our current condition.

But if Caster were to give the the dagger to Souichirou.... Nah, she won't risk that.

>>31508398
>"Yo dawg, I heard you like Emiyas so we put a Shirou in yo Archer so you can EMIYA while you EMIYA!"

You know what?, lets just do this.

[1] Leave

[2] Stay and fight avenger

[3] Stay and fight Gil

>>31508441
So how you getting pasted Gil?

>>31508303
>>31508331
...Actually, I think this is it.
>>31508419
Hey, we don't need /a/ 's help to be completely retarded. We can be completely retarded all on our own thank you very much!

>>31508378
what exactly do you mean "possession". I'm not sure Nasuverse demons work that way

>>31508399
>AC-Guy fucks the setting with a rake
>fails to explain anything
>responds to confusion by ignoring it until we think he's gone then mocking us
Frankly, us using spooky magic to possess someone is almost guaranteed to make more sense than Kirei masturbating to a picture of Shirou in order to keep us around (or whatever it is that's keeping us alive).

>>31508464
>passed

Fuck you phone.

Guys we just pormised Rider that we'd bail if it looked like we might die. We made this promise literally yesterday real time. C'mon guys.

Oh fuck I just realized. Avenger wanted us to win. He wanted the person who won the grail to have a pure soul. That's why he was a villian, to make us the ultimate hero. If we've won the grail, we would have ushered in a utopia!

>>31508479
Here's a crazy idea...

WE LEAVE. WE WITHDRAW. WE LET ARCHER DO HIS THING. WE LET PEOPLE WHO KNOW MORE ABOUT SPOOKY MAGIC EXPLAIN SHIT TO US.

>>31508508
That makes no sense. The grail is a massive prana battery created to punch a hole in reality.

>>31508525
Can't we're breaking apart. We need tot ake back our body, now.

>>31508490
If we bail we will die (we as in our future self).

I agree with those saying to trace Rule Breaker. Lets do something at least.

>>31508479
You know, it could be Broserker. "No one truly dies until they're forgotten."

>>31508508
The Grail corrupts any wish made on it. If we'd created a utopia it would be in the literal sense: No place. So you're pretty much wrong.

Besides, the Grail's true purpose is to let one of the three mage families reach the Akashic Record.

>>31508536
It's meant to grant a wish. However, the corruption of the grail meant that it could only do so in the darkest way possible. Shirou was meant to cleanse it.

Rolled 20

>>31508490
>Guys we just promised Rider that we'd bail if it looked like we might die.

Oh shit!

[x] GTFO and leave Archer to kick their asses

>>31508542
You really realized that we forced ourselves back together twice during this thread? That maybe if we get away from all the fighting we could do that again and buy enough time to find a better solution that isn't suicide run.

>>31508576
>>31508577

>>31508596
if we sleep we die.

>>31508525
>WE LET PEOPLE WHO KNOW MORE ABOUT SPOOKY MAGIC EXPLAIN SHIT TO US.
Nobody knows more than Shirou. Every fucking time we've asked people for answers or advice, they've responded with some variation of "I have no fucking idea." We pretty much had to order Rin to tell use about Jewel sword. We asked multiple experts on magic about the runes, and they all told us that had absolutely no fucking idea.

>>31508525
But AC-Guy doesn't explain shit, anon.

>>31508542
Once we're out of immediate danger Caster, Rin, and Ilya should be able to stabilize us.

Archer wouldn't be telling us to get the hell out if doing so would kill us, he evidently trusts our rather formidable mage support staff to be able to get our motor running again, and frankly I'm inclined to trust the guy who's employed by Alaya to deal with problems. He may be a prick but he's pretty much the authority on dealing with magical combat crisis situations.

Okay folks, do we:
1) Go for Avenger
2) Retreat
3) Try to project/imagine functioning body, THEN do one of the above.

>>31508779
>2) Retreat
We can fuck with metaphysics once we're safe

>>31508640
>>31508675

When we don't ask for impossible shit, they're actually really helpful. You have to remember we were told straight up that we were UNIQUE. Most of the time when people around us were at a loss was because we or Avenger were doing things NOBODY had seen before that point.

Getting angry about not getting all the answers in these situations is kinda retarded.

>>31508640
>We pretty much had to order Rin to tell use about Jewel sword.

She was hesitant about it because it's the nuclear option. Enforcers from the magic association are going to come right the fuck into town to interrogate her because of its sudden appearance.

>>31508779
Did we bring the flashbangs? Let's drop one and all run.

If we didn't, let's magic one up.

>>31508779
Frankly, I still think
>[X] Gem Sword through the Heart
is the best option, but nothing can upset AC-Guy's plans, so let's go with
>2) Retreat

If either of the other two were real options, they would've been included in the story post.

Rolled 9

>>31508583
>Nat 20

Oh lawdie.

>>31508190
This is what happens when you refuse to explain even a single goddamn thing to your players.
We legitimately have NO FUCKING IDEA what to do. We don't understand the implications of ANYTHING that is happening right now. We don't know what the consequences of any of our actions might be, nor do we know how to actually counter anything our enemies are doing, OR IF THEY'RE EVEN OUR ENEMIES TO BEGIN WITH.

You have had ample opportunity to give us the information we need to actually make decisions, but you've instead give us cryptic bullshit or non-answers at every step.

You're basically making a blind man play Tetris, telling him 'well, the next shape has four blocks, you should be able to figure it out from there', and then acting confused when he fucks up.

Guys...

We still have the shotgun.

>>31508794
>things NOBODY had seen before that point.
Avenger invented an entirely new school of magecraft just to put meaningless markings all over the city?

> we were UNIQUE
AKA, entirely OC and impossible to predict or work with.

>>31508895
It's a baseline shotgun. Avenger gives no fucks, Gil actually gives *negative* fucks, and there's nobody and nothing else that we want to shoot.

Confusion leads to frustration
Frustration leads to Anger
Anger leads to no beer, no TV make Homer something something

File: 1397629032649.jpg-(191 KB, 620x880, Catch Skill.jpg)

191 KB JPG

>>31508895
....... Yes we do, Ok remember how he said his magic is like a revolver, now what if he could shoot half traced swords out of the shot gun?

>>31508881
>We don't understand the implications of ANYTHING
We understand enough to make the decision as to whether we run. The write-in is for brilliant insights or Indy ploys.

This is not on AC-Guy. This is on you: Do you want to run or can you out-think the scenario?

>>31508881
Yeah, I'm actually with you on this one. We;ve had way too little information the entire quest.

Do...do we stop trying to hold ourselves together *just* long enough to try to magic up a Rule Breaker shot, try to catch Avenger off-guard?

>>31508950
... Is that Agrias?

>>31508973
>We understand enough to make the decision as to whether we run.
Obviously we don't since we've been discussing this shit for an hour and forty minutes and we still have no idea what the option other than run look like.

>>31508779
>2) Retreat

Let's just let Archer do his thing while we regroup. We've already abandoned the save everyone forever regardless of consequences superhero act, and Archer has made his choices.

File: 1397629311927.jpg-(171 KB, 626x1010, Hill of heros.jpg)

171 KB JPG

>>31509005
Yesurrry now going back to the shotgun, Rule Breaker buck shot think about it

>>31508973
Running doesn't actually solve any of the problems, it just delays them. There's no point saying 'oh we can talk to the girls and find a solution' because they'll just say 'IMPOSSIBRU' and give us no help whatsoever. Again.

HEY AC=GUY CAN YOU SET UP ONE OF THOSE NUMBER VOTE THINGS, CAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE NOT GONNA GET nywher.

>>31509046
That's why it's a write-in. We don't have to break the scenario to continue, this has been us trying to decide whether we can or not.

>>31509080
I'm reasonably certain leaving will result in some changes on that front.

New topic: What do we do or suggest our comrades do so we can avoid Archer sacrificing himself stupidly?

>>31509133
First off, who's here? Lancer, Rin,Saber, Caster, and Archer were mentioned, and presumably Bazette as well, Rider's probably at home with Sakura, and we're pretty much out of commission until we figure out how to maintain existence.

>>31509133
[x] Blast Gigolomesh with the Jewelled Sword at full power.

>>31509077

Found out that's Ref Stay Night but not finding a translated version. Don't suppose you know of translated copy out there?

>>31509133
And that's where frustration comes in, cause we already lost one ally like this and the
[ ] Other?
seems to imply there's something we could do...
but hell if any of us can figure it out sanely

So I see a thread's up, and I come in....

.... to see this. You guys realize there's only three things you haven't been explicitly told right? Out of all the things you're complaining about?

Maybe AC-Guy was too subtle on some shit, or the gaps in running made you forget some details, but there are exactly three fucking things.

1: Avalon's location.
2: What the Avenger/Shirou connection thing was all about.
3: What Avenger was doing with the runes.

Everything else you have either revived a direct answer to at some point, either in or out of character, or got like 99% of it solved, only for a 'hmmm, but what about THIS detail' which was then heavily inferred to be connected to one of the above listed three things.

Now being confused? Understandable. Bitching out AC-Guy because you're not connecting the dots, and therefore everything is his fault forever? Less reasonable.

>>31508840
>>31508790
>>31509061
>Retreat

Retreat. We're not going to agree to any other plan of action, and frankly we should just move on so we can get to figuring out just what the fuck is happening.

>>31509133
>New topic: What do we do or suggest our comrades do so we can avoid Archer sacrificing himself stupidly?

Toss Lancer a Rule Breaker and tell him to stab Avenger in the dick while everyone else backs off to minimum safe distance?

I mean yeah, we'd by relying on LANCER to get the job done, but he's the only one with the stats and skills to even possibly survive the massive swordsplosion that's going to happen when Archer and Gil clash.

I mean we're at least somewhat sure that doing that will cause Avenger to either spit out Avalon or our real body.

This plan has the problem that it would delay Archer's ability to deploy UBW, since he wouldn't want to trap any allies in there with him and the Gil rapetrain for obvious reasons though, and without it we don't have a guarantee that Gil couldn't hold them off.

>>31509246
The Other is there in case one of us can come up with something AC-Guy hasn't seen. It's not that he has a way plotted out that he's not presenting.

>>31509265
Be fair, a lot of stuff has been explained ooc, get explained after the thread proper. Myself and a lot of others leave as soon as we see no more story updates are forthcoming.

>>31509265
goto 10>>31508947

>>31509265

The ones bitching are only a couple. The rest of us are trying to figure out what to do.

>>31509265
>Where is Avalon?
>What is Shirou?
>What is Avenger?
>Why can Avenger control our Grail connection?
>What happened to Berserker?
>What were the runes about?
>Why is Assassin super strong?
>What did Merlin nudge back at the end of the fourth war? What were his goals?
>What was supposed to be awkward/uncomfortable about the movie date day?
This one looks mostly like a dropped thread, since Ilya mentions it then it's never brought up again.
>How did Avalon get removed from the Shirou that Kerry stuck it in?
>Why were we able to initially contract with Saber but unable to reestablish the connection?
>How was Avenger able to be active before the Grail War began? If he was active before the Grail War began, what was the "taint" that Arc sensed leaving the Grail?

>>31509381
I think Archer may be planning to get himself killed partly out of a desire to not have to face Rin. He kinda was unwilling to meet her earlier, and might be looking at this as an opportunity to redeem himself in death. Should we get her to yell something at him?

Looks like we've got:

[ ] Fervent hope that Rule Breaker on Avenger helps us and
[ ] GTFO

choose poorly

>>31509651
GTFO won last time with four votes. Are we even sure AC-Guy is here?

Rolled 1

>>31509651
Let us look to the dice gods for guidance

Unless there's a surge in Other... we out

Rolled 20

>>31509738

Oh you gotta be shittin' me Anon, really?

>>31509781
>>31509738

FSA dice everybody.

File: 1397631317487.png-(500 KB, 954x1022, pantsu on head retarded.png)

500 KB PNG

>>31509738
>>31509781
Haaaaaaaahahaha

>>31509738
>>31509781

I dont even know anymore.

>>31509809
>wow a 1 on a d2
>such odds
>so 50/50

>>31509839
Now gib the probability the 20 would hit given the one.

>>31509651
>[ ] GTFO
Already weighed in all the plans presented (and I'm speaking as one who also contributed ideas).

The plans are too convoluted to consider the timeframe we have to pull it off successfully, whilst Archer's is pretty much to the point.
So I'll go with the "Retreat" option.

>>31509873
Given that the one is already there? 1/20

>>31509738
>1d2
Cmon guys, just get 4chanX already.

Observant Guy here. I'm just gonna go ahead and drop my unified theory for 'What In The Goddamn Fuck Is Happening' so you guys can understand what I see, and the assumptions I'm operating under.

Shirou died at the end of the last war. Not 'almost', died died. His body and soul split. One became demonic, as in 'living wish' shit, and the other became Avenger. We, under this supposition, are Wish!Shirou.

Avenger has Avalon, since it's in 'Shioru's' body, and he's driving that around while we're a not-ghost.

Avenger was behind the kidnappings.

Avenger was kidnapping Girls with Magic potential to act as Grail Cores.

Avenger sent them away. This is what the evidence points to, but I'm not sure why.

Berserker isn't dead. I'm not saying this for wishful thinking, I'm saying this because there are two things that could happen to a dead Berserker, and neither did as far as we can tell. WTF else is going on here, I have no idea.

Runes were helping with above Grail Core theory.

Saber, when summoned, was bonded to both us-Shirou and Avenger-Shirou halves. Only one half of 'us' was trying to bond with her at the temple.

>>31510071
>Avenger sent them away. This is what the evidence points to, but I'm not sure why.
>Runes were helping with above Grail Core theory.
He was attempting to prevent the Grail from absorbing magic/manifesting?

>>31510071
>Shirou died at the end of the last war. Not 'almost', died died. His body and soul split. One became demonic, as in 'living wish' shit, and the other became Avenger. We, under this supposition, are Wish!Shirou.
Yes.
>Avenger has Avalon, since it's in 'Shioru's' body, and he's driving that around while we're a not-ghost.
Kerry thought he put Avalon in our Shirou. He wouldn't put it in a corpse, and he would notice a body-swap.
>Saber, when summoned, was bonded to both us-Shirou and Avenger-Shirou halves. Only one half of 'us' was trying to bond with her at the temple.
If this were true, she should've noticed the prana coming from two sources, and we should've shared command seals. It also doesn't make sense to only require Avenger's presences for the reestablishment of the contract.

This theory also doesn't explain why Avenger was active in the years between wars but the taint only came out of the Grail when the war started.

>I guess we're going with retreat then? I'll start writing.

>And for the record, the choices presented are the ones most likely to occur to the perspective character. So 'other' is always an option.

>For example: getting confronted about something embarrassing. Presented options are to be honest or to lie. That doesn't mean 'dive out the window to avoid the question' isn't an option, just one less likely to occur to the character in Question.

>The lack or presence of options on the list is not, and has never been, the exclusive list of good actions. I've said before that 'other' is always an option, and that the listed options aren't always the best options. The only time it actually gets that kind of binary I either say something, or it's pretty obvious that left and right are the only real options.

>>31510199
What were the other options with a chance of success? Why wouldn't Shirou think to attack?

>>31510199
>I've said before that 'other' is always an option, and that the listed options aren't always the best options.
What a shame that the only other options the players can ever come up with are apparently suicidal and retarded, because they don't understand the implications when they suggest them.

>>31510409
>implying this quest wasn't built on shit like running over Berzerker or trolling Gilgamesh
>implying the Jewel Sword heart plan didn't make as much sense as the current theory on what's going on with Avenger/Shirou

>>31510480
Except AC-Guy flat-out told us it was stupid and suicidal.

>>31510571
>implying I wasn't aware of that
>implying that the current Avenger/Shirou theory isn't stupid

So what happened to the dude who was gonna dump Ilya smut?

>>31510738
I was not expecting another thread so soon.
I have also been procrastinating like a motherfucker. It should have been done hours ago.

>3+ hours between updates
Sasuga AC-Guy.

>>31510913

Because we've been arguing and debating like drunken asses without a clue in the world.

Rolled 8

>>31510199
>One hour later

That's it, spinning the wheel.

It's been an hour, spin it!

Rolled 5

>>31505077

Rollin'

>>31511302
but what about the car? is it on fire?

>>31511264
>>31511279
>>31511302

>I'm here, it's just....

>I keep writing this shit out and it doesn't 'feel' right. I know the exact series of events, but for some reason I can't coherently put it into words.

>I don't know why. Maybe it's the guys who were complaining abouyt the lack of clarity making me overanalyze shit or something, but everything I write either in no way resembles the flow of anything written previously, or doesn't seem like it's actually painting the proper picture of the situation.

>>31511393
aaaaaaaand we broke him. fuck

>>31511393

AC-Guy's writing is on fire

>>31511393
I wouldn't blame you if you shelved it for the night and just slept on it, even if we haven't accomplished fuck all today.

File: 1397637014681.png-(77 KB, 472x460, 1357474274791.png)

77 KB PNG

>>31511393
>Maybe it's the guys who were complaining abouyt the lack of clarity making me overanalyze shit or something
Ha. Haha. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

>>31511393
Guys. Guys. Are you really fucking sure that leaving Archer in one room with Gilgamesh, Avenger and supercharged Assassin is the best we can come up with?

Even if we aren't going to project a heart or Rule Breaker, our party has the goddamned Jeweled Sword and the actual Rule Breaker. Can't we blow this castle to hell and back, and stab everything that is left moving when the dust settles?

>>31511478
Choo choo, motherfucker.

Rolled 7

>>31511393

Nigga, I set your car on fire. You better hurry your ass up or I'll set YOU on fire.

>>31511512
Hey, be nice. You might make him overanalyze his fire detectors or something.

>>31511527
Oh, he knows they work fine. They've been on constantly ever since he's started running the quest and now the sounds of fire detectors help him sleep at night.

File: 1397637387330.png-(153 KB, 769x595, watch out, badass.png)

153 KB PNG

>>31511512

So does anyone bitching remember when we specifically told AC-Guy to go fucking crazy and make this as hard as possible?

So like, things like Archer probably getting killed, whatever is going on with Avenger.... We literally, specifically, and directly ASKED for it.

And we're bitching to the point that we've broke the goddamn QM. What the fuck, people.

>>31511654
...We did?

>>31511478
I think big indiscriminate energy blasts are mostly going to be useless against Gil due to the whole "I've got a Phantasm for that!" thing, and Avenger can just kinda cower behind him if we start dropping nukes.

>>31511670

What, asked for it or broke AC-Guy? Because the latter is debateable, since he might recover from our sudden bout of angry retardation.

The former though, we did. We even had the Nowhere Man guy who is apparently a RL friend DIRECTLY WARN US that tempting his full wrath was a bad idea. Gimme ten minutes I could give you a thread and fucking POST number.

>>31511654
>So does anyone bitching remember when we specifically told AC-Guy to go fucking crazy and make this as hard as possible?
Go ahead and find the part where we asked him to obfuscate everything and make it impossible to know what is going on.

There's a difference between playing a video game on hard mode and playing a video game set to Korean.
>And we're bitching to the point that we've broke the goddamn QM.
There's been like three of us criticizing total.

>>31511725

Have you considered that due to long delays between threads maybe you fucking FORGOT some detail or another?

When he ran that last thread a week or so ago, I went back and reread everything. And between what's happening now and his style or writing/running quests, I actually think I know what the fuck is going on.

>>31511760
You're like the third person to claim that everything is pretty clear without bothering to explain what the fuck is going on. I'd welcome your attempt at explaining, because I've got a whole google doc full of notes and queries that I took during my last read of the ebook.

>>31511709
>Gimme ten minutes I could give you a thread and fucking POST number.
I'm still searching for this.

I vote to rule break MYSELF

>>31511896

Just found it http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21619110/#p21619567

Only took me this long because I forgot the original post had been deleted.

>>31511809

It's 90% what >>31510071
said, honestly. We read as 'Demon' when examining traits, and 'human' when getting magic scanned. My explanation is that we're somehow both at the same time.

This probably has something to do with the Grail mud. It was either giving us a Demon Body, or was helping fuel our Quasi-Demon self. How/why this happened in the first place is beyond me, but since demons are literal manifested WISHES, and all the rampant desire and Wish magic getting thrown around at roughly the time this kickstarted, I can make an educated guess.

Also, remember that at the end of the nightmare dream sequence, we saw an us that wasn't us. My interpretation is that after Kerry found us, the guilt overwhelmed us to the point of causing the Avenger/Shirou split.

This is just off the top of my head. By all means, post a list here, or make a pastebin. We can go over that shit together.

>>31512025
I'm failing to see where it was agreed that AC-Guy should make this as difficult as possible in the post you quoted. It's just a warning about triggering shit.

I already posted the issues with Avalon's location, Shirou contracting Saber, and Avenger's movements prior to the war here >>31510180. Avenger being able to revoke our wish doesn't really make sense under the current theory either.

>>31512100
>>31512025
To add on to the issues/complaints about the current theory; it doesn't really help us make decisions. We don't really know how any of this impacts our actions. We don't know how to stabilize ourself. Apparently pure concentrated despair is an excellent anchor for some reason. Our only course of action right now is to run away and hope Kotomine is rejoicing in the living room and interested in sheathing something in Shirou.

So, looking back through the archive, I found this beauty (http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/22258035/#22263230), so running up and Rule Breakering Avenger might have been our best option since we could just burn a HP to auto-succeed.

God, are you all dumb? We have the motherfucking sword of Zelretch! We have 4 Servants on our side! Blast those faggots and ask questions after that!

>>31512100

We were being kept alive with Grail mud he controls. Whether that was the 'wish' or not is debatable, but Sakura pulled the same shit with Kirei in Heaven's Feel.

My theory was the split happened in the hospital because

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/26226268/#p26249078
>When I open my eyes, I see my own concerned face reflected back at me. I blink, and I see another. The same, but different.

If we got a body exactly like our old one, then how would Kerry know the difference? He would just know instinctively that the kid he saw for like ten minutes got swapped with one who was 100% completely identical as far as anyone could tell, and had the exact same memories and experiences?

The Saber thing might not be innacurate. How do we know the exact same person in two places at once wouldn't read as 'one person' instead of 'two'? In Fate/Zero Saber couldn't tell where Kiritsugu was despite being bonded to him. So what if she just felt 'I am connected to Shirou' and never questioned if there was a weird ass possibly unique exception to this rule?

>>31512163

This is a fair point, but I feel the urge to point out something else that bugs me with the general complaining.

This situation is at least partially our fault.

We chose to sneak off with Archer, and try to set a trap for Zouken. We didn't know Zouken would be picking now to try and make a move, but then whether we could have anticipated that is debatable. We also had no idea that Gil and Avenger knew about his plan somehow and had a similar idea, assuming either we would kill him or they could kill him after he and his servant were weakened.

I mean, we kinda know what happened NOW and maybe we could have GUESSED Zouken would try something drastic in the last few days of the war.... But we never even considered he might move first.

>>31512176

I would debate the merit of that plan, but only insofar as we only have 2HP at the moment. If you think we can swing the escape, then maybe.

>>31512176
>or burn one for instant success/surviving something impossible.
Over a year since that statement and not once have we been reminded of it.
Thanks, AC-Guy. Shit like this is why I was asking for a goddamn info dump/collation/recap thread.

>>31512182
I think it was a combination of frustration at the length of time spent discussing and the fact that Archer seemed to think fleeing was the best option.

>>31512176

To be fair, there was a general sentiment to never ever consider doing that sort of thing ever again when it was brought up.

Also, AC-Guy might have forgotten about it entirely. I sure the fuck did.

>>31512176
>>31512238
No sacrificing HP, we're in a pretty bad shape already. Maybe Shirou, Archer and Caster should use three Rule Breakers at once? One hit is all we need, after all. Don't spend HP on it before we're sure it will brong us the vixtory

>>31512215
If the split happened in the hospital, then we didn't die, so we wouldn't split in the first place. Avenger Shirou has brown skin and hair, so Kerry would sure as shit notice if he stuck Avalon in a brown dude only for him to turn white and ginger later.

>Sakura pulled the same shit with Kirei in Heaven's Feel.
The issue is more that one of the created Shirou's arbitrarily has dominion over the other one.

If Saber is contracted to both Avenger and Shirou, she should've been swimming in prana. This still doesn't explain why she only needed Shirou for the initial contract but would need both for subsequent contracts. She also presumably should've still been contracted to Saber once Shirou was hit with Rule Breaker. Avenger also should've been sharing the command seals.

>This situation is at least partially our fault.
No one's complaining about Zouken (other than the bullshit of Archer freaking out about Grail Mud when he had no alternative, marking the latest in a long line of every non-Shirou character being worthless). Most of the bitching here has been about how incredibly cryptic AC-Guy has been and how little information other characters have been able to provide.
>we only have 2HP
We only failed one roll, and that (shouldn't) have even been a major one given that we have four servants there to aid us. We should have 3HP, and Rule Breakering Avenger should pretty much finish the fight.

>>31512284
>implying Shirou and Archer can't throw like fifty RBs each per second
>implying Caster will risk her original when Shirou and Archer and just fart them out for funsies
Remember, we only need to put enough effort in to get the 'severs contracts' effect working. Throwing out half-assed shonky knockoffs that would make a Chinese sweatshop jealous should be fine.

File: 1397642166279.jpg-(40 KB, 476x358, 1365500868283.jpg)

40 KB JPG

>>31512182
This guy has his priorities right.

Archived the thread, anyway.

>>31512308
We failed two rolls. The "not get ass kicked by Assassin" and the "Die, monster" one.

Previous Thread:
>Roll to not die.
>Roll to not die.
>Roll to not die.
>Roll to not die.
>You died? Cliffhanger.

ITT:
>Roll to not die.
>Roll to not die.
>Roll to not die.
>Figure out the entire master plan right fucking now or Archer dies!

Choo choo, motherfucker.
Yeah, nah. I'm out. Seriously, thanks for the ride 'til now, AC-Guy. It was a real blast, but that's about as much as I can take.
I hope you guys can enjoy the rest of... whatever the fuck this turned into.