In this day and age is it bad to play a character that fights for justice and acts selflessly entirely straight faced?
No.
I don't have a problem with that, but I start getting a frown when they make a kick their signature move, or something.
>>31082498Since that's the D&D paladin, I'd say yes, surely.
"Moralfags" are largely one-dimensional. They never stop to think about what they do, to ponder the meanings of right, wrong, good, and evil. They blindly maintain an arbitrary stance, and never display any hesitation in action. By this, they are unrealistic and unengaging, because they are not human.The only ways to reconcile this tired archetype is to present situations where the moralfag is either proven to be a fanatic, and thusly becomes a villain or goes insane when their feeble perceptions collapse, or is forced to deeply reconsider his/her naive position for a more guarded, perhaps even hostile, stance.
>>31082498It's wrong to do the opposite.>>31082696Just take a look at this edgemaster.
>>31082938>Freud - You want to fuck the donut
There's nothing wrong with fighting for justice.
In this day and age of "Reimagining", "twists", "subversion", and the like, I find anyone playing a genuine True Believer of any cause, without irony, completely to the hilt, to be one of the most refreshing approaches you can take. I would fucking pay for a genuinely pure noblebright or 100% non-parody "BECAUSE I'M EVIL THAT'S WHY" character, because this gray and grey and black shit gets tiring.
>>31082498
>>31082696>They never stop to think about what they do, to ponder the meanings of right, wrong, good, and evil.I thought this exact kind of moral introversion was common among heroic figures.
>>31082498>making this exact same thread againAt least use a different picture OP
>>31083087Want to explain yourself or do you just want to admit to being a retard with cocks in your eyes?
>>31082696>never stop to think about what they do...right or wrong...etcThis is the exact reason people get annoyed with them though. The fact that they dont just kill that orc and be done with it.>Arbitrary stanceAgain, they follow a pretty clear cut moral code or the law. Stuff that's either written down or very hardline.>proven to be a fanatic, villain, etc.True, that is very interesting. You're right there. Except that it's not the ONLY way to enjoy this character.>naive, feeble perceptions, moralfagedge, edge, edge
>>31082938>Descartes>Not "Give her the donut"
>>31082498only if your group hates it.
>>31083115I've seen this exact thread, with the same picture and text, made on this board before.I actually immediately went to check the number of replies to see if it happened to be the same one I saw before resurrected from near death
>>31083210You're fucking full of shit. The OP pic nor the text has never been posted here before. Get fucked.
>>31082498I don't see why they can't be fun characters to play as, so no
>>31082957>no i dont>That is because you are repressing your urge to fuck a donut.
>>31083210Actually, I think I kind of remember that Darth Edgelord response too in a thread at least similar to this.
I'm pretty sick of grimdark, edgelord, CN antiheroes with their gray morality.Seeing an LG character would be a breath of fresh air. Besides, they're interesting because they're the ones who have to make the toughest choices. A dick-ass thief can do whatever just because and that's not fun roleplaying to me
>>31082938>Sartre - Humanity is condemned to freely eat donuts.
>>31082498Not at all. I for one am tired of all the jewish NOBODY CAN BE GOOD YOU CAN ONLY BE NEUTRAL AT BEST shit going on these days.
>>31082938And now I want a donut
>>31083231It happens on other boards. Hang out on /v/ or /b/ or /lit/ and you'll see it. Same OP text, same OP image. Even some of the same replies. But you'll never admit to it.
>>31083027I still want to get a chance to play a 100% generic fantasy campaign with characters like this because by the time I got into the hobby everyone is trying to go full deconstruction subversive fantasy.I just want to go on an adventure with a snarky thief, a wise old wizard, a grizzled fighter, and a shy young cleric saving the world from evil that is actually evil. I feel like that experience was robbed from me.
>>31083265That's 'Jewish' somehow?>>31083273Why not a bagel?
>>31082938>Ovid>You are raped by various gods and transformed into a doughnut
>>31083284The archive takes a shit on you once againhttps://archive.foolz.us/_/search/image/JVjjjOwPDC55tM6SPKFE4g/
>>31083308>That's 'Jewish' somehow?Yeah, it's a popular attitude amongst them. They hate anything unambiguously good.
>>31083027> I would fucking pay for a genuinely pure noblebright or 100% non-parody "BECAUSE I'M EVIL THAT'S WHY" character, because this gray and grey and black shit gets tiring.This.This is why guys like pic related are so "loved": Just a straight-up evil cunt without any moralistic crap. That, and being fucking invincible.
>>31083329except themselves of course, also anyone who they accuse of being antisemitic is 100% evil
>>31083329thats not true at all.
>>31083329We do? News to me.
>>31082938>>31082957>>31083240You missed it, anons. Freud is "You like donuts because they remind you of your mother's vagina"
I "play" this character irl
>>31083329[citation needed]
>>31082696>The only ways to reconcile this tired archetype is to present situations where the moralfag is either proven to be a fanatic, and thusly becomes a villain or goes insane when their feeble perceptions collapse, or is forced to deeply reconsider his/her naive position for a more guarded, perhaps even hostile, stance.wtf am I reading
>>31083336Watch out - The Canadians have entered the race for fucking invicibility
>>31083329>>>/pol/
>>31083381well that certainly makes more sense
>>31083394b8. i suggest you drink some v8 to wash it down.
>>31083387[jewish behavior for the past 1750 years]
Going to do this with a CG aasimar barbarian soon. Brother of a tribe's...for lack of better term, sheriff, or maybe justicar works better, who has set out to find other wrongs that need to be righted in the world. Might go paladin of freedom or holy liberator later on if he earns the right, but he'll generally be considering the causes of crimes, appropriate punishments or actions, and the like to spread good rather than just prune evil.
>>31083394trolling that I'm 90% sure is copypasta from /co/ Watchmen threads
Does Solaire count?Until he goes insane and/or becomes depressed, of course.
>>31083427gb2pol
>>31082938Hobbes - donuts should be carefully controlled by a powerful government lest man fall to his natural instincts and grow fat.
>>31082498to be honest this is sort of the only type of character i know how to play. I almost always role a paladin or as close as i can get. The only places where this would be a problem are systems that have grimdark anitheroes built into the fluff, like world of darkness or 40k
>>31083427I don't think you know what you're taking about. Have you ever met a jewish person? They actually go to far in the opposite direction, talking about how it takes jewish values and whatnot to do constant good deeds and you should hold yourself up to the virtues of intelligence, etc.I dont even understand what it would take to interpret a whole culture as edgy
>>31083457gb2iudaeayou have a country there now and everything
>>31083308>Why not a bagel?Not deliciously glazedMuch like your mothers vagina!Sorry....
Of course not.The fight for justice is never bad, meaningless, or dumb. It's always a worthwhile fight, no matter how much the >muh grimdark-fags get you down.Never give up the fight.
>>31083425>>31083446I know. I just wanted an excuse to post a guy who's moralfag from beginning to end.
>>31083476i dunno. i'v done good guys in WoD before. granted they were mostly the "god dammit i just want to be back in my sanctum reading books" kinds, but still.
>>31083427>>31083329
>>31082938>Rousseau - In the state of nature, man eats as many donuts as he needs.
>>31082696What sort of moralfag doesn't examine his morality? Morality is meaningless except in how you interface with society, so you'd have to examine it for it to mean anything. In fact, introspection is a common tendency among heroic figures.
>>31083538oh yeah its definatly possible, me and some friends run a group of Hunter the Vigil where we basiclly throw out the entire morality system and play as superheroes, its just kind of rare to find a group like that.
>>31083336RED SUN OVER PARADISE
>>31082938>Zhuangzi - Am I a man dreaming of eating a donut, or a donut dreaming of being a man?
>>31083607When the page half-loaded, I was half-expecting it to be Solaire wearing that.
>>31083336Well, especially in Metal Gear land, where every villain has some elaborate backstory or explanation for being fucking evil, Sundowner's explanation is just 'Holy shit Raiden it's so fucking FUN! And they PAY ME! God damn, so fucking invincible'
ITT: Donut Philosophy General
>>31083635It's fun, but it's easy to poke holes in.
>>31083647
>>31082938>Donut: Be a donut.
>>31082938>Derrida - eating deconstructed donuts is the only way to truly understand their flavor.
>>31083647I find it easier to take in if you lean back and look at the hole picture.
>>31083671>Yoda: Do, or donut. There is no try.
>>31083692top kek
>>31083329Although I was raised as a Catholic, I am generally second guessing anything presenting itself as "good".Except maybe Marxism.
>>31083455Actually, I think this raises a good question. Is it still playing the heroic selfless lover of justice "straight" if they suffer for it?And no, Solaire doesn't count, he and his covenant just think killing bosses is great fun, and great fun is greater fun with a friend.
>>31082938Rand: You earned that donut, no one else should have it.
>>31083709>except a theory that got every prediction wrong, was based on colossal misinterpretations of history and current events, and written by a man who could not even read the local newsWhat
>>31083709>presenting itself as "good"But this is not what heroes do.
I think a true 'Paladin' would be very refreshing amongst all the edgy grimdark horseshit.It's why I'm enjoying my current group so much: it's their first time RP'ing so they all are focused on the story and want to play it safe: a 'Rogue' who's basically interesting in exploring ruins and unearthing hidden treasures, an 'arrogant genius' (but otherwise sympathetic) wizard, a veteran soldier who doesn't know any other way to live than to fight and whore... They're not terribly imaginative characters, but they don't ruin the mood with being edgy assholes, and they're always supremely enthusiastic about EVERYTHING.
>>31083717I think it depends on the type of suffering. Like, is it suffering in the sense that they take on greater burdens, have to give up ordinary lives and comforts, lose friends along the way? Or is it suffering in the sense that the universe just seems to punish people who are good (as in edgy settings at their worst)? Or something else?
>>31083796WOW that was full of bullshit rightwing propaganda.
While we're on topic, what ways do you guys try to constantly improve how your characters handle grey morality questions? Things like thieves stealing from desperation, or wars that are, in their nature, over things like greed instead of justice or protection of others?
Just two words for you: Fuck. Post-modernism.Fuck the obsession with realistic heroes.Fuck the obsession with deconstruction.Fuck the two-bit hacks that piddle against the genre of their choice and get praise from hordes of first-world pseudo-intellectuals.OP.Fight for justice.
>>31083825It also depends on their reaction to any suffering. Are their convictions strong enough to rise above any punishment or hardship, do they accept the burdens of loss and responsibility as necessary, attitude can be the difference between a deconstruction or subversion and a truly noblebright character in a less than noblebright setting
>>31083888Fight for donuts.
>>31083840No shit? It says virtues on every circle. Leftists hate virtue.
>>31083888...I'm fairly sure that's three words, anon.
>>31083844As a single individual there is a limit to what you can exert in terms of pressure for societal or even personal change.Therefore, the maxim is - do the greatest good you can, wherever you can.
>>31083922Postmodernism is one word though only Europeans would write it Post-modernism.
>>31082938>Even is there is no god or budha... there is a donut~Kamen Rider Wizard
>>31082938>Hillel - 'The donut which is tasty to you, feed unto your neighbor.' That is the Torah; the rest is commentary.
>>31083840>>31083919
>>31083984Have some V8, wash down their b8.
>>31083157I should not be laughing as hard at that image as I am.
>>31083915Wrong series.
>>31083984is that emma watson?
>>31084009Tastes gr8!>>31084029Nope.
>>31084054Glad you like it, m8!
>>31082938>Zeno of Elea - You can never finish eating a donut, since first you must eat half of it, then eat half of what's left, then half of that, then half of that, and so on.
>>31083557>What sort of moralfag doesn't examine his morality?You must be either an alien, or some basement dweller who has to come out to social meetings since birth.
>>31083927Alright, given that and a hypothetical unjust war, would it make sense to fight so that others could remain unharmed by it? I'm the aasimar barbarian guy, so think a code of "if change for the better doesn't start with ourselves, how can it begin? Stand so others will not have to, stand so they can see a better tomorrow. Stand because someone has to" fits well enough for CG?
>>31084144"Be the change you want in the world"?Yeah, that's a solidly Good philosophy.>>31084128No, honestly. Morality is founded on our relations with others, and is therefore constantly refined by exposure to new ideas. Anyone who refuses to examine their ideas, even if their ideas are good, is not moral.
>>31084144That sounds like a solid code. Definitely Good. Not necessarily particularly Chaotic, but then again, a Paladin's code leans more towards Good than towards Lawful anyway.
>>31082498No, fuck the edgelords.
>>31084128I think maybe you just hang out with sociopaths that use moral strawmen to justify their behavior.I'm moralfag as fuck, and I almost obsess over what the "right thing" to do is.
>moralfagsHow cute.
>>31084246Chris, I love you broBut Kreia is objectively wrong about the nature of the Force and needs to just shut the fuck up already.Also, Planescape Torment is objectively about doing the Right thing over the Practical thing by pointing out how acting without regard for morality is ultimately a form of self harm.Learn your own lessons bro.
>>31084181>No,Except when we are talking about a moralfar, we are talking about someone who is bringing in moral issues, not one who is thinking about or understanding them.Most people just follow the morality they learned about in family/movie/community, without thinking about it. Thus we have all the "good" guys who try to do what seems, and they were fed by others, to be good but be unable to discuss it, bring reasons to the table or listen t osomeone who has a different view of the subject.
>>31084018Is it really?
>>31084409I prefer to fight for space.And friendship.And SPACE FRIENDSHIP.
>>31084409He didn't even know what he was fighting for.
>>31084560The best heroes always take a while to figure it out.
>>31084679axle is objectively superior.
>>31084272What was Kreia wrong about?
>>31082498No, the people who give you shit for it are what we call faggots.
>>31085605The Force does not cause wars as little as atoms cause nuclear explosions when left to sit around.
>>31085605The Force does not manipulate its wielders, it merely offers insight. If it did, the Sith outright wouldn't exist. It does not cause wars - people, using the Force to enforce their philosophy, cause wars, using the Force as a tool.Also, she was, by her own admission, a hypocrite who had no evidence that her plan would work and basically hoped you would believe her and try it anyway for no reason than because you two were such good friends.
>>31083844When in doubt, pic related.
>>31083336>>31083631>>31083607The best part about Sundowner is that, even if he is the villain, he's entirely into it. No obsessions of moral justice, love, or memes. Just 'holy fucking shit i get to break things and get paid for it.'You can't help but respect that kind of honesty. You'll never wonder why Sundowner does a thing, because it only points to one reason; because it's fun as shit. And he's fucking invincible.
>>31085771THE PROBLEM, SAMURAI FLAMENCO, IS THAT YOU ARE STUPID
>>31085883
>>31085875Yeah, I think it was one of the best Metal Gear jokes in the game. First couple bosses play up the mystery and elaborate motivations, and then two straight are just 'yo let's fight nigga'And then it loops right back around to hilarious what-the-fuck-am-I-hearing terrorist philosophy hour."Join us because I'm a child soldier who turned to violence too!""...Nah.""Join us because we have a place for violent psychopaths like you.""LET 'ER RIP""I don't even give a fuck, LOOK AT THESE SILLY ROBOT BRAINS, SHIT'S HILARIOUS""Gimmicky bullshit!""Hey man you wanna fight with swords""DO I?!"
>>31085771>>31085978What is this because it seems funny as hell
>>31086018Samurai Flamenco. Currently airing anime, with the final episode tomorrow.
>>31086018Samurai Flamencoanime of the season
>>31086018Samurai Flamenco. I'm not a really a toku fan at all, but the show is a big love letter to those style of shows. It has a guy deciding to become a superhero, even if it's not practical in a real world, because goddammit he's gonna be a hero.You should know though, it has massive twists and spoilers, so you shouldn't read about it. Just watch, sit back, and enjoy one crazy hell of a ride.
>Samurai flamenco>Neither dances or cuts people with a katanawhy?
>>31086095Because he is a hero with the noble spirit of the samurai and the passion of a flamenco dancer. Nuff said.
>>31086077>sit back>not SIT DOWN
>>31086018
>>31086165Only one and number one
>>31086168What
>>31086319What part of "That's not justice." do you not understand?
>>31086168These lines aren't actually in the show, just to clarify. It's a really fun show, but don't be confused.
>>31082938>Basho - The taste of donuts / Inspiration for young souls / Justice springs anew
What if you play a character that is Justice.
>>31082498Nope. You can play the character entirely straight. Just be aware that the world isn't kind to people like that, and the stress is likely to get to them. Realistically, they're going to eventually break somehow. Not become useless or turn puppy-smashing evil, but an adventurer under those circumstances is, eventually, going to develop some sort of issues. Just don't start monologuing, and it should still be fine.Personally, I prefer to portray them as becoming manic-depressive. Normally very high energy, enthusiastic hero's, but with the potential to slip into pretty heavy depression for several days at a time. Its a disturbingly convenient mental disorder for plot and character development. Just make sure they don't turn into 'lol randum' and you can make the hero you want while explaining the consequences associated with that mentality.
>>31086947>not being made of sterner stuff>not being aware of old school rider's lonely hero thing
>>31086947The world isn't necessarily kind *or* unkind to lovers of justice. Also, incidentally, that's not strictly speaking what manic-depressive disorder entails... but it's good enough for adventuring's sake.
I have one character named Justice Lord, who's part of a sci-fi superhero team(got together after being inspired by one of our PCs who's basically communist Iron Man).Idealistic, probably has some form of dimentia and spends most of the time talking about JUSTICE! or butting into conversations to add "OF JUSTICE!" whenever possible.Wields a heavy red, white, and blue shield in one hand, and a hand-held minigun in another, equipped with a jetpack.Mechanically, I made him a (4e) Hybrid Fighter/Ranger. Fighter because JUSTICE! defends the weak and innocent as well as letting me punch people in the face with my shield OF JUSTICE!. Ranger to quarry enemies, and my quarry is the ENEMY OF JUSTICE! with a side helping Favored Enemy:EVIL!not really, and letting accurately spray my minigun OF JUSTICE! at all who oppose JUSTICE!
>>31087120Okay, dude? Consider what the average adventurer goes through. Then consider that if a Cop shoots *one* person, they get recommended for psychological counseling. Not getting issues with what adventurers go through is, quite frankly, a trait that only has a place on a Mary Sue character.>>31087136 It would be especially stressful for someone who cares abut such things deeply. Not that it would randomly through extra shit at them, but they would be far more heavily impacted than someone whose only in it for themselves.Perhaps I should have been more clear with manic-depressive; that's the variation I like to give them. Near constant mania with episodes of depression. I realize that it really just refers to episodes of mania and episodes of depression (usually cycling with each other). I just prefer that variation for these specific hero types because... well, like I said, its ridiculously convenient. The mania gives me an excuse to keep them from showing signs of massive PTSD (which they should) most of the time, interspaced with periods where they can barely function because of how things get to them.
I find it almost weird that people are saying they want more villains that are villains just cause they like evil, I feel like I've seen a lot more of that stuff ever since Heath Ledger Joker came out, and I felt like a lot of antagonists followed suit in the "Chaos just b/c" manner, without having any sort of real motivation. I mean I guess that urge is a kind of motivation, but not one that's super relateable or anything.
>>31087893>quite frankly, a trait that only has a place on a Mary Sue character.I agree with your overall idea but I don't think you know what that word means
>>31087893>Not getting issues with what adventurers go through is, quite frankly, a trait that only has a place on a Mary Sue character.Honestly, who fucking cares?
>>31087893>Your average adventurer not being some sort of borderline demi-god compared >implying anyone bothers with this shit outside of of the rare roleplayer using it as a dramatic quality or systems where this is relevant and mechanically supported>Implying those that walking the path of Justice to protect the smiles of others aren't aware of the challenges ahead>Implying that withstanding said hardships and trucking on for you goals and ideals isn't the stuff heroes are made ofPic related
>>31087893Watch Kamen RiderI don't remember which but one of the series is about exactly that.And it is glorious
>>31088542It's OOO but that's way later into the series and he gets his shit together fairly quicklyIt's real close to the end game involving the barney combo
>>31083717There isn't even any connection with Lorderon, they just got sent there by The Lord of Sunlight who went "Hey, there are things to kill over there! Let's go kill them, chums!" "HURRAH!"
>>31087893You misunderstand. I'm not saying they wouldn't be heavily affected - I'm saying that they can, you know, win - both small battles and large ones. It depends on the nature of the setting - does the universe bend towards justice, towards failure, or in no particular direction?
>>31083825>that the universe just seems to punish people who are good (as in edgy settings at their worst)?Can you recommend me any works of fiction that pull this stunt over and over? Aside from Front Mission: Dog Life & Dog Style
>>31091544Sorry, but I personally can't recommend you any, since that's very much *not* my taste.
>>31082498No, I plan on playing a Monk/Paladin combo based on this guy.
>>31082696Totally fedorous bro
>>31086497They might as well have been.
>>31082498Oh sure, if you don't flinch when you Rider Kick a guy and he flies twenty yards, hits a wall and explodes into chunky salsa, you're already insane enough for me to get my decon fix.
>>31095530Can I still be nice to kids?
>>31095530>a guyMonsters aren't people.
>>31095651What I'm saying is that I'm not populating the world solely with completely inhuman moving bags of pyrotechnics just for you.
>>31083329Nonsense. The Jews are survivors of unambiguous evil - Hitler - and are still fighting people who are unambiguously evil - most of the Middle East.
>>31083888also, fuck Urobuchi in particular.
>>31096103I think he's doing pretty well with Gaim.
>>31096151You mean doing FANTASTICALLY.
>>31082696>They blindly maintain an arbitrary stance, and never display any hesitation in action.That's entirely wrong and you need to rethink your assessment of what it means to have morals and act on them.
people talk about how they wanna see more LG in their games but honestly I just want more NG/True Good characters. goodness for goodness' sake
>>31083231>You're fucking full of shit. The OP pic nor the text has never been posted here before. Get fucked.Why would you act so hostile to something that can be proven to be true?
>>31082498Of course. I don't like the trend of >If you do good you will suffer for it and you will break before the end>Being good is suffering ;_;>Good guys are bad and bad guys are good>X is just misunderstood>You're just as evil as me, you just don't know it yetObviously you will face loss, hardships, obstacles and grave peril down the high path. Your success will also mean lost profits for the wicked. It doesn't have to end desperation, if the obstacle truly is insurmountable, have it end in martyrdom.I don't mind grey morality, but having everything the same shade of grey is dull fast.
I would love to play a campaign where everyone is moralfags.But I am tired of interparty conflict about it. At first it seems like it would be good roleplaying, but eventually it starts to really slow things down.
>>31083817Aww that sounds awsome.
>>31096420They get excited about the most pointless stuff. One character is obsessed with calligraphy and pours resources into it with full abandon. I've been making up quests to accommodate their characters' specific interests. The campaign I'd originally wanted to run is pretty much dead and buried. And I'm fine with it. It's a blast with all these 'bland' characters.
I love me some Kamen Rider for that sense of Justice and pure passion for good that the main characters normally display.However, sometimes I want to watch that charity and virtue without all the toku silliness.Are there any shows that fulfil that?
>>31096636Also, Eiji is the most justice-loving Rider right? I haven't watched every show yet.
Yeah, it can be done well in this day and age. The titular Invincible is very much a Lawful Good character, I believe. He does what's right, he sticks by his morals, and while they may cloud, he may second guess himself, he may end up screwing up, he's out there to do what's right and make the world a better place.And the reason people are so sick of the moral gray area deconstruction subversion bullshit is because when shit like Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns did that shit it actually WAS subversion and deconstruction because it worked within these genres and mediums to tell stories that weren't being told, and examine things from a different lens. When others decided to ape that same lens in a similar attempt to make people think, all they did was the same thing that those works were fighting against, and creating more homogeneity, just of a different brand. Why do you think All-Star Superman was what it was? Again, in response, similar to Watchmen, to what comics, as a whole, were.tl;dr all the gray was in response to black and white, and now that it's all gray, people hate gray and like the idea of black and white again. Personally, I think all types of stories, characters etc can work well, if crafted interestingly and with thought.
>>31082498No.
>>31096676If by justice you mean cock then yes.
>>31083844My current character is CN so he generally gives no shits
