>>29917608
>>29917612
plate armor shaped in bestial forms?
like "carved nordic helmet" from skyrim

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>>29917612

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>>29917629
Game of thrones style animal helmets?
I can dig it!

Are llamas viable war mounts?

>>29917608
>Not titled America beating back Mexican scum.jpg

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>>29917645

>>29917645
i doubt llamas can run at charging speed when a fully geared dude sits on it...
unless they would learn to breed llamas into war llamas

like we made warhorses

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>>29917651
oh you

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>>29917664
>playlist jumps to gravedigger's 'rebellion' just as I read your post
>hyped for WAR-LLAMAS now!
also: cant find my inca pictures.

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>always bring a battle-mage

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what armour style do you think they would have invented for metal armour?
Maybe they'd start with riveting plates to their padded pyjamas?

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>>29917762
also: scale mail probably. In the shape of feathers.

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can we play too?

>>29917762
I would guess Metal Lamellar.
>>29917783
>in the shape of feathers.

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>>29917859
pointy great-helms with fabulous feather crests

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>>29917885

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>>29917896

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>>29917909
The inca where pretty damn close to halberds...

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>>29917923

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>>29917896
and those big copper medallions probably served some protective purpose.
Given some time they could have developed into something like what the guy on the left is wearing

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>>29917982
and from that to something like this.
In due time, of course.

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>>29918008

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Maybe?

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>>29918062
something like that, aye

>>29918062
Now i think of it, it'd make more sense for them to sew animal skins onto each individual plate.

Also, to pad the plate.

Just imagine, you're some low-ranking levee of some jungle kingdom at war with some big fucking advanced city empire and you're just walking through the jungle heading towards the main army.

And the next moment a couple of knights in leopard plate jump out of the bushes, with only a slight metallic sound accompanying them, and before you know it your buddy next to you gets a longsword up his gut and you get an obsidian hilt nob to the face.

>>29917608
They where over Medieval Tech, I mean, The Inca could do brain Surgery.

>>29918147
He's talking military tech mate.

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>>29917608
They don't know what a sword is so we'll probably get vicious metal versions of the Macahuitl.

FUN FACT: The quilted cotton armor of the aztecs was so good the Spanish replaced their padded armor in favour of Aztec ones.

They would have just sacrificed themselves back into the stone age eventually like the Mayans did before them.

>>29918189
>They don't know what a sword is so we'll probably get vicious metal versions of the Macahuitl.

DUDE! A sword is a long knife. Making a sword isn't a matter of coming up with the idea, it's just a matter of metallurgy.

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>>29918147
So didn't prehistoric man. Successfully. Brain surgery is one of the oldest invasive surgeries man has mastered.

>>29918189
>FUN FACT
Myth. The reason that SOME soldiers replaced it was due to the comfort and consumability, just like any other equipment. The metal armour was unable to be bypassed by the primative weapons, but padded defences (of which the Spanish brought european styles as well) worked just fine. Records hold that Rondelaros (shield men) preferred to keep their plate, while secondary soldiers such as pike men and arquebusers would wear lighter armour, mostly as proof from arrows.

>>29918200
And they had knives! Copper ones at that!

>>29918123
>cover plate with caiman skin
>lie on your belly on the river banks
>enemy tries to cross the steep river banks
>jump up and rally your fellow crocodile knights
>beat back the enemy into the river

Meso-American guerilla animal knights would be fucking scary.

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>>29918276
Also, in case you wanna compare:

Pic is Meso quilted defences.

>>29918402
>comfy_aztec_warrior.jpg

What's up with all the pajamas warriors?

>>29918431
It's a pretty obscure reason, you wouldn't understand

So says Cuhatemoc

Hipster Warrior of Tenochticlan

(You've probably never heard of him)

>>29918431
Pajamas make perfect combat gear.

>enemy attacks you while you're still in bed
>hahah, jokes on you, i always fight in my pajamas

Or maybe you just fought a battle, and you're feeling a bit tired. No problem. Just take a nap. You're already wearing your pajamas.

You could actually say that they're tacticool pajamas.

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>>29918402
And european of the same period.

>>29918409
>everyone_is_comfy.jpg

>>29918431
that is just what they did.

>>29918402
>>29918454
Pictures of padded armour always make me hungry.

They look like crackers.

>>29918369
they'd also die from the heat in those padded metal things

>>29918489
>die from heat
>in the amazon

It's not the fucking Saharah, you dumbass.

>>29918489
Just dye the hides black. Problem solved.

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>>29918527
Wouldn't that be only slightly better (Amazon has lower temps, but higher humidity and vice versa with the Sahara,) unless you only fought in armor when it's raining or in water?

http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/why-do-we-sweat-more-high-humidity

I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible but doing either sounds like you're running the risk of heat stroke.

>>29918369
>Finally make it through the city gates
>Decorations make it seem like there was some kind of festival held there recently
>Fight to the temples
>See an opportunity to loot amidst the chaos
>Walk towards the temple
>All of a sudden a single man his skin painted gold, clearly reeking of wine stumbles out of the temple and begins screaming at you in a language you can't understand
>out of the temple step 4 more figures, hulking and reeking of decay
>at first glance they seem hideously deformed with rotten skin sloughing off of their grotesquely proportioned bodies but upon looking at their normal, albeit blood-soaked hands, and the second set of hands trailing from their wrists like skin mittens you realize that each is but a normal man in a suit of armor over which a single, partially-decayed human skin has been stretched to the point of breaking
>they look to the golden man who drunkenly reels, steadies himself, and then raises his scepter to point at you
>they slowly turn their heads from the golden man to you, the extra skin around their necks twisting and contorting over their armor
>gazing at you with hate-filled eyes from behind two pairs of sockets, they raise their bloody macuahuitls, and the warrior priests of Xipe Totec charge

>>29917608

No idea, because there's tons we don't know about how they were before outside interference.

But medieval tech implies they'd adopt some enough meaningful parallels to society in medieval Europe to develop similar tech, even though their society had almost certainly different problems and threats (a jaguar doesn't hunt like a wolf, formation fighting doesn't work in crazy rough terrain, cavalry doesn't work without animals suitable for riding over long distances).

If you're asking about them advancing to a level where they could dominate militarily? Well, that level of advancement doesn't happen without trade, which is the definition of outside interference.

So, no black powder or instructions on how to make charcoal or a silly toy steam engine (pssh, what are they going to do with it? Build a bigger one?).

>>29917732
Those fucking clothes, son. I'd play as that war priest in a heartbeat

>>29918473
Oh fuck, I see it too. Ima go stew something.

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Rolled 16

>>29918760
I roll to fire my Arquebus on the warrior priest.

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>>29917706

WHERE EVER THERE IS A SEARCH FOR APPROPRIATE PICTURES, LLAMA KNIGHT SHALL BE THERE!

>>29918200

>do you even flower wars?

Yeah but the...POINT... of the macahuitl was that is did sub-dual damage so they could take the defeated warriors back to their temples and sacrifice them to keep the sun rising.

>>29918276
>The reason that SOME soldiers replaced it was due to the comfort and consumability, just like any other equipment.

I was referring to colonial soldiers, not the entire Spanish Army.

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>>29921118
Because I was compelled to.

>>29918760
>I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible but doing either sounds like you're running the risk of heat stroke.

It depends where in south america we're talking about really - chile is largely a stony desert and the driest place on earth, the mesa-american mountain regions of south america are more ghobi desert-like, cold and dry and you have altitude sickness to deal with on top of the rough terrain.

Then there's the amazon, which is bad for steel armor because rust and drowning, but at medieval tech you'd have some considerable deforestation, like what happened to europe's immense forests, so the amazon might be a bit more habitable (though at the cost of jaguars going the way of the european leopards and lions).

Then there's meso-america proper, which is either jungle OR desert.

>>29917608
Meso American warfare = pyjama battles

>>29919425
How would the Aztecs employ gunpowder if their religion relied on the sacrifice of enemy soldiers?

Would they find another source to fulfill their death quota? Would they revise their practices to include death by guns or bombs as valid sacrifices?

>>29921800

why not use criminals and pows as sacrifices?

remember that we are not talking JUST aztecs here

>>29922544
There was some Inca talk as well.

>>29922697
where there only incas and aztecs?

>>29922697
But the Incas aren't meso-americans.
>>29922778
Nah, but they were the more interesting, apart of the Mayas. The rest of South america weren't as civilized be far, and normally were at best confederations of clans and tribes, without cities like the ones made be the big three.

>>29922819
Gotta be completely honest here, I do not know what "meso" means

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I am reminded of these guys...

>>29921800
>>29922067

They used pows and criminals as sacrifices.

there was a game of war aztecs played with other tribes called "Flower wars" basically they fougth for fun just to take prisones for sacrifices

>>29922848
Meso means middle, or Middle America. So all the people than lives between South and North America.
>>29922909
I don't think they would use plate armour at all. The weather isn't suitable, to humid and hot in a great part of the continent, the only ones I see than could put it are the Incas, as they lived in a more cold weather and were the more organized of all of them.

With the tech and resourece to do them, I think they would use very adorned brigantines like armour like the chinese and Indo-persian cultures, lamellar and scales, probably laquered in a colourful way, but only to protect the most vital parts, the rest covered in cotton armour (if even used, not everyone fought with armour even in Europe or asia).

And very related to the Thread, the comic La Danse Du Temps seems apropiate, all made be Igor Baranko. You could find it in english in some CBR download sites, and buy it if you like it.

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>>29923073
and if they managed to invent maille...heyy!

>>29923073
you also have to think that they didnt have horses or other heavy war beasts.

most of the wars in ancient america where fought by foot with gorrilla tactics, heavy armor was most of hinderance when speed and tactical acumen were more valued than stronk and resistance.

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>>29923147
we fixed this by breeding war llamas.
Or use llama dragoons...
hmmm

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>>29923147
They could use war llamas pulling chariots. Or use humans to pull chariots. Or use gloranthan llamas.

>>29923165
>>29923165

thing is... llamas were domesticated, and they had plenty of time to make them into war llamas if they would ever want to.

they can and they are used for mounts and transport, but we never had of llama knights. they might be too scaredy/stupid to be trained into nothing more than work beasts.

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>>29923236
use llamas to pull BATTLE STATIONS!

>>29923273
they are used as guard animals too.
With breeding programs you can make any animal fierce.

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Guys, guys!
What if people all over america traded and talked and occasionally fought with each other, like in europe?
From the bottom of the south to the top of canada!

>>29923304
maybe... its possible to train an ox to be a war animal?

i mean, as a serious question, if you can do it with an ox, you can probably do it with a llama

>>29917608
No one survives as they continue to sacrifice their people and captured enemies to the sun god in record numbers.
By the time the Spanish get there Mexico is devoid of all human life

>>29923355
If we tried hard enough we probably could.
I mean, there never was any point to it in real life, cus horses. and ox tastes too good.
But fuckit. We're humans! We don't give a fuck! If we wanna breed war-oxen we will damn well breed em good! Even if it is not cost-efficient and a very roundabout thing to do!

>>29923355
The russians did breed Foxes into pets, in less than a few generations. I don't see why not, if you have the ingenuity, the patience, the resources and the skills to do it.

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>>29923391
people like you took us too the moon.

>>29923394
shit, look at sheep. They were fucking useless for anything but munching on until some stone age fuck was like "Imma wear sheep hair"
and some other cave-pisser was all "Thak cant wear sheep hair. Must wear sheep skin"
"Gronk can piss in Gronk's ear. Thak will make sheep fuck until Thak can wear their hair!"
and he called it WOOL.

after his wife.

>>29923377
you are overdoing the human sacrifice part....

>>29923391
>>29923394

going forward, even in the case we could have llama knights, America has a lot more of rough terrain than europe, wouldnt this affect the way cavalry is used as a force in combat?

what could make people drop gorilla tactics in favor of mass battles in a selvatic continent?

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>>29923438

>>29923458
i lol'd

>>29923468
No, it is widely taught that every day the Mexican peoples regularly sacrificed daily to their gods. Ripping out hearts and cutting up babies all day erry day.

Got to make the sun rise am I right people?

>>29923468
>gorilla tactics
>gorilla

>>29923468
I think llama dragoons are more viable than llama knights.
But lets say that the inca and aztec empires move into northern america. where there are vast plains and redskins to fight.
The redskins panic when the southerners come and form some jury-rigged alliance to stop em and thus you got A LOT of warriors gathered and pitched battles ensues.

>>29923511
yes yes we know.

We just dont care right now.

>>29923355
But did the Amerindians have oxes? Let's see how many animals you could use or are big enough to make cavalry in the Americas. The Llama family, with Vicunyas and Alpacas throw in there. The Bison, the Moose and some more species of the Cervidae family. What more?

>>29923468
You have the plains of North America. And the north of mexico and South of USA isn't as craggy as Spain for what I remember, so I don't see why not. You only need the animals.

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>>29923348
They did. There were legit civilizations in north america but they all got wiped out by smallpox before the Europeans even got to them. It traveled faster than the settlers.

The Europeans had such an easy time because they were fighting the remains of a collapsed civilization that had been reduced to nomadic hunter-gathering, not because they were simply more in touch with nature, but because they had no other choice.

Were it not for smallpox the Europeans would have had a much harder time. It wiped out more than 75% of the population and the technological advances of the 1500s would not have been able to deal with the vastly superior numbers.

In fact, their is even evidince that when the natives got wiped out, the resulting re-forestation of north america (because they weren't cutting down trees anymore) caused the little ice age in europe.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/columbus-arrival-linked-carbon-dioxide-drop

>>29923566
I don't think there are any others.

>>29923566
And of course Brasil, Argentin etc are now littered wtih Cattles and Gauchos/hispanic cowboys. You have the Terrain if you want.

>>29923593
lets retcon the plague

>>29923514
The joke


your head


>>29923511
You arent worthy of a response besides this pre-written copy paste

>>29923529
and then the redskins decide that gorilla tactics work better against the big-ass army of the south people. and we go back to square one.

im starting to think aztecs and incas, the biggest empires of america prior to colonization, would have never advanced to plate armor, maybe a form of cuirassier raiding a llama?

>>29923566
i said oxes as an example, they are pacific as llamas.

but you do raise a valid point with mooses... those shits look strong enough to be made into cavalry

>>29923511
Yes and when Cortez razed Tenochtitlan he killed more in one day than they killed in a year.

Also during the same time period the Spanish were burning witches and heretics. History is full of people killing people, fixating on one specific way makes you look like a 12 year old.

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>>29923628
>those shits look strong enough to be made into cavalry
They are. They are just very hard to domesticate.
But there is a tribe in russia that have ridden mooses for aaagees.
They are a tiny and insignificant people though.

>>29923649
But he brought civilization to the backward heathens who believed the stars were creepy skeleton women and the moon was a head.

>>29917817
Those Dude look Cool

>>29923665
wait...it's not!?

>>29923665
The Aztecs weren't the ones who believed taking baths spreads the plague by opening your pores.

>>29918062
lol'd. nice work anon.

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>>29923661
this will be the basis for my new cavalier

>>29923665
pic related

>>29923649
Wouldn't you kill a witch?
Aztecs had witches.

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>>29923669
they are pretty ballin

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>>29923661

>implying only a tiny tribe in Russia has domesticated the majestic moose

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>>29923710
only that I knew of.

>>29923699
from what culture does these neat masks come from?

I MUST KNOW ANON, TELL ME YOUR SECRETS

>>29923698
40kids plz go.

>>29923665
>the stars were creepy skeleton women and the moon was a head.

Whoa now friend, you're not implying that they AREN'T, are you?

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>>29923721
Seems a tlingit war helmet.

Just a quick note:

Samurai.

Think about it for a moment. Got it? Fine. My point is this: the samurai are idealized as much as the shinning armour knight, and shit. However, this notion comes from an era when there were no civil wars in Japan, and before the crossbow appeared. We are still stuck with said notion when in practice both were barely better than your more 'barbaric' troops (don't give a shit about honour), and this should be considered when talking about the aztecs and such.

In other words, the aztecs were conquered when they were dominating and could pose when fighting, but in the last of the conquering, is when shit hit the fan and they were ruthless killing anything. However, plagues and shit wore them down and lost the battle.

My point is, if they got into serious troubles, they would thrown away the entire pow and sacrifices and focused on won the war. Eventually they would adopted gunpowder and horse, but how they would have evolved, I have no idea.

>>29923048

so then why do people say that them sacrificing people kept them from developing?

like >>29923391
and >>29923511

>>29923727
Okay not real witches but still, they didn't worship God and believed in terrible gods who demanded regular human sacrifice.

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>>29923721
tlingit

These are the fuckers that foighted the vikings away

>>29921189

LOL

>>29923776

Wait what? I thought the tlingit were pacific northwest.

>>29923833
shit, yeah.
So I guess they only foighted russians.
Who foighted the vikings? Eskimos?

>>29923511

Why would you have to sacrifice at any point other than the solstices?

Why do you think fatalities in america increase around christmas? Gotta get that sun rising again.

>>29923858

Whoever the fuck was in Newfoundland.

Anyone have the screen cap of the guy who made a cleric based on the myan god of flaying and harvest? Where he had to wear the skins of his enemies to appease the gods (was all based on actual mythology)

>>29923916
>Newfoundland
the Mi'kmaq, apparently.

>>29918062
I would expect way more fur around the shoulders, and maybe keeping the look of the weapons

>>29923916
>>29923968
oh shit! What if the Mi'kmaq started fucking and trading with the norse instead of just foighting them all the time?
Suddenly we got Mi'kmaq's with some damn fine armour and steel axs, fucking up all of canada and conquering errything!

>>29921800

You missed the point.

Wondering how the Aztec's would x, y, or z is a waste of time when the premise OP described means the conditions for "The Aztec civilization can now x, y, or z" will not arrive, because of a lack of outside interference.

Still, since you probably want an answer and someone else might dismiss what I wrote as dodging the question:

>How would the Aztecs employ gunpowder if their religion relied on the sacrifice of enemy soldiers?

Simple. 2 possible outcomes:

1].
They'd use primitive firearms with considerable accuracy and consistent lethal stopping power shortcomings. Because that's all they could make initially, without outside interference and no duration to R&D something more lethal.

And those badly injured and maimed soldiers get sacrificed.

2].
Religions change overtime, in unpredictable ways. Ask a Catholic if they still can only eat fish but no meat on a Friday for instance.

It'd be naive to think nothing could change with new social pressures or technologies, or rulers with a desire to create a legacy.

What do you call the Incas when they suddenly decide to drop one religious custom? Easy. They're an Inca.

>>29924074

Eventually they did. There were viking fishing settlements in Newfoundland from about 1200 onward, the cod were so thick you could just drop a bucket into the water and pull out fish. Eventually the Spanish and French joined the party. The area was peaceful and prosperous until they started dredge fishing the area in the 80's. The Mi'kmaq did relatively well compared to other native tribes when the plagues hit because they were already on friendly terms with the Europeans.

Canadians learn this shit in middle school.

>>29924131
I can imagine the priests coming out of their pyramid and addressing the vast tracts of onlookers
"Ok, there's going to be some changes happening soon... I know we all really like it, but we're gonna stop sacrificing people."
*AAAAAW!*
"I know, I know. It's a really good time! You take the kid out, gets some fresh air, unwind, look at all the pretty colours... but guys. We killed enough people! Sungod got so stronk he dont need us to do that shit no more!"
*murmurmurmur*
"Now, the GOOD news... is that we're gonna go fuck up the redskins. Just for fun!"
*cheers!*
"Dont forget the beer and footballs!"

>>29924175
>There were viking fishing settlements in Newfoundland from about 1200 onward,
yeap.
Then the norse gave them milk.
poor fuckers thought the nords had poisoned them.
Hilarity ensued.
no wait, I mean death.

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>>29923769
Because they were wrong. The Aztecs were very developed and in civ terms had a much higher culture score than the Spanish. They just didn't research iron-working. (And Civ lacks mechanics for infectious disease)

The amount of people they sacrificed was sustainable and some historians theorize that it was necessary to maintain their population levels at a stable point.

>>29923772
If you read the old testament, the jeudeo christian god is the most frightening deity I can think of. If the conquest of the new world never happened and both civilizations never met. I would much rather live in 15th century Tenochtitlan than 15th century Spain. The people being sacrificed were mostly warriors captured in battle, and the children of noble houses. (one way to keep your heirs from fighting) The average citizen had a much better standard of living than the average Spaniard who had to live in constant fear of plagues, starvation, or being accused of witchcraft or heresy if he managed to survive the first two.

>>29924287
Now granted! The people outside of Tenochtitlan probably didn't think the Aztecs were nearly as awesome. It was an aggressive empire heavily dependent on tributary states. The average Aztec was doing fine, but the rest of the city states resented them. Another reason Cortez had such an easy time was because he was able to convince the other city states he could help them overthrow their oppressors.

Come to think of it, that would be a HILARIOUS angle for a white guilt western like DWW or Avatar. The magic white boy leads the natives to freedom, only to enslave them himself.

>>29924385
ooooh I like that.

speaking of nothing, there was a few europeans that ended up in indian-land and got a HUGE cult following because they could cure people by saying the lord's prayer over them.

>>29917608

They kind of already were.
The reason they weren't using metal armour wasn't because they were dumb chucklefucks, it was because they lived in hot and humid areas. They likely would adopt limited breastplates, and yes, fuck yeah animal helms, but I don't see them ever putting on full harness. PART of the reason was that the Aztecs in particular (the contemporaries of Cortes) were big on nonlethal combat - fighting with slingstones, maces, and suchlike to beat the enemies down so you can drag them back to assassinate them. Not only is investing in full harness a waste, as you won't get it back due to LOL, NO RANSOM CULTURE, but many of the defenses that it offers are less useful against those kinds of blunt attacks.

>>29924287

Yeah, a big thing people miss when talking about those "brutal, blood-sacrificing savages" is that Tenochtitlan was still the most population-dense city in the world.

The. World.

The Spaniards were rightfully awed.

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>>29924613
>lived in hot and humid areas
like the indians?

>>29924698

India has an impressively large range of various climes.

That said, that still isn't the Maximilian I was thinking of, re: full harness, so I think I made my point.

You go for "decently armored" not "HEAD TO TOE IN NOTHIN' BUT STEEEEEEL!" in tropical regions.

>>29923966

Sounds like Xipetotec there.

>>29921173
As was I. The foremost frontline fighters preferred plate or surplus maille, and second line fighters (guns and pikes) would hand down their plate to the men in front, adopting padded garments. Armour can be damaged and consumed by use like anything else. You'll notice many pictures showing colonial troop wearing local footwear too.

>>29921222
Pajama battles with slicks covered in paint-soaked feathers. That is how they did tournaments and training.

>>29923348
Two words: Powhatan Empire. They had "civilized" feudalism and primitive cities, before the great fall (which was just shortly before the English came, so we don't know exactly what happened). Early reports of the coast tell oh HUGE coastal villages, where the firesmoke blocked out the sky for miles.

>>29923514
They were done monkeying around with the Spanish.

>>29924698
And the medieval Greeks. And South Italians....