MIND. BLOWN.

>>28893399
I like it. What else you got?

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I see. I see.
You can't escape from me.

>>28893428

I don't know. It just occurred to me all of a sudden. I guess it makes even more sense in those settings where dwarfs have pointy ears, like Armies of Exigo or Queensblade.

Earmarking for possible steal

>dwarfs, inventors of the guided tunnel torpedo

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>>28893399
Those thick fingers help pick up the reverb on the walls too, helps judge depth of stone and what not. Beards and mustaches help filter dust.

>>28893797
No, the beards are a part of the sonar system. The hairs are especially sensitive to vibrations and air pressure changes, like whiskers.

Also feral dwarfs sleep on the ceiling and shit everywhere, but civilized dwarfs don't talk about them.

But they don't looks dark vision when deafened

>>28893924

That's just what they want you to think

>laughingdwarfs.jpg

>>28893870
>No, the beards are a part of the sonar system. The hairs are especially sensitive to vibrations and air pressure changes, like whiskers.

I feel real bad about shaving that dwarf in retrospect then. Its like I put out his eyes.

>>28893924

Nor are they unable to see anything inside a cold tunnel with no thermally interesting objects in it. Darkvision never made much sense anyway.

>>28894011

I don't think they're actually blind. You just killed his darkvision.

>now imagining a steampunk u-boat crewed by German dwarfs, under the command of Gurgni Beardwhistle.

>>28893399
>Dwarf is whistling the tune from kill bill
>Lol dont care if they find me, trying to find them
>Don don dununun don don dununun ladedaada ladedaada

It would make for a amazing bad guy

I remember hearing once that Miners whistled while they were moving TNT. I don't remember why, but I remember they didn't need to even touch the dynamite itself for it to do bad things.

Combination of sonar, thermal sense, and scent.
Hence the large noses.

Dorf Holds also tend to have just giant-ass hammering things as deep in the substrata as they can get, to provide a sort of beacon that carries through rock and stone. Elves find it kind of irritating.

>>28893870
Civilised dorfs also wear heavy-ass boots to cushion their grippy feet. They can climb like motherfuckers with them off, but there's a bit of cultural stigma associated with bare feet (not to mention the dangers in your usual foundry)

>>28894179
>We think the elves are in the area
>Let me check
*Stick beard in water*
>Yes, and I feel splashes! DIVE DIVE DIVE

>>28894064
>thermally interesting
Runes with inset, magically hotter materials.

>>28894250
Ancient civilization of giant psionic stone worms, the Ukha'Krrch use dwarves as scanning devices.

Ukha'Krrch used to capture dwarves and enslave theme with psionic powers, but after Grimgi The Hero, warrior-attorney of dwarven kingdoms won battle-trial against Splorrch, slavery was abolished and stone worms hire willing dwarves for Reasonable Fee.
There are clans of dwarves that are famous for their sonar skills.

>>28894318

A Wizard Did Their Evolution?

>>28894274

>implying dwarfs aren't Russian
>implying their submarines don't maneuver even as we speak into missile distance if the elven homeland

Welp, this is now canon in my setting. Nice work.

>>28894226
That song is called Twisted Never, by the way.

But what about dwarf women who don't have beards? How so they sense things?

>>28896750
Did they have them shaved? I mean, there are male dwarves who have certain congenital defects which sees them born without a beard, too.

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>>28893399
>>28893870
>>28894250

Extrapolating from these: large ears, slitted eyes for low-light environment, and -- I go into My Dwarves Are Different territory here, I realize -- simian noses to go with the gripping feet.

>>28896911
Dwarfs be Mongol now

>>28897061

Underground cavalry on Dire Voles?

>>28897292

That's stupid even by "little people living underground" standards.

>>28896494
>>Twisted Nerve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKORO8S6m8
ftfy...

>>28896911
Truly /tg/'s new mascot.

>>28894239
>but I remember they didn't need to even touch the dynamite itself for it to do bad things
TNT is basically Nitroglycerine plus a stabilizer, right?
Well, under certain conditions, the Nitroglycerine will crystallize or precipitate or something I don't know and start to leak out of the casing on its own.
Minus the stabilizer, Nitro is very prone to going off for no reason, so...

bumping cause interesting thread

>>28898891
Its nitroglycerin with a clay of some kind molded into a stick.

Depending on the quality of the clay it can be made more volatile,

So /tg/ dwarves see with their beards, and their wives are anvils. Okay.

>>28898891

Dynamite and TriNitroToluene are two very, very different things.

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I was about to say that your idea doesn't make much sense, considering that their sensitive hearing would make noisy forges Hell, but then I remembered that bats are able to temporarily deafen themselves to stop their own cries from damaging their ears. Bat dwarves make sense.

>>28903910

What a douchy face.

>>28893399
This is now canon in my campaign setting.
>>28893870
As is this.

>>28893410

seconding this. fuck.

Maybe we should archive this?

>>28912959
I agree

Good thread

>>28915594

Not yet. I say before we need some PF stats.

>>28893399
Wasn't this part of the Artemis Fowl books? I'm probably wrong but I swear I've heard something like this before.

>>28895727
No, they wizarded for more-visible things even in the dark.
Darkvision-only runes.

Dwarves are actually blind. That's why they're agoraphobic, their sonar doesn't work as well.

Dwarvish stonecunning? They send an ultrasonic pulse through stone-like materials and can determine the density, and therefore the type of material.

Small bands of dwarves, trained for tunnel fighting, will have a 'Caller' as an official position, usually a bard, who skillfully relays orders from the commander and provides the echoes from their whistling.

>>28918651
Ability Score Racial Traits: Dvergir gain +2 Con, +2 Wis, and -2 Cha.
Type: Dvergir are humanoids with the dwarf subtype.
Size: Dvergir are Medium creatures and thus receive no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Speed: Dvergir have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.They also have a climb speed of 20 feet, which also grants them a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks.
Languages: Dvergir begin play speaking Common and Dwarven. Dvergir with high intelligence scores can choose from the following: Aklo, Draconic, Terran, or Undercommon
Skill Training: Knowledge (Dungeoneering) and Perception are always considered class skills for dvergir.
Stoneseer: Dvergir add +1 to the caster level of any spells with the earth descriptor they cast. Each dvergr also gains the following spell-like abilities (the caster level is equal to her character level):
Constant — nondetection
1/day — magic stone, stone shape, stone tell
Mountaineer: Dvergir are immune to altitude sickness and do not lose their Dexterity bonus to AC when making Climb checks or Acrobatics checks to cross narrow or slippery surfaces.
Blindsense: Using nonvisual senses such as acute smell or hearing, dvergir notice things they cannot see. Dvergir usually do not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within 30 feet, provided they have line of effect to that creature. A creature that the dvergr cannot see still has total concealment against her, and the dvergr still has the normal miss chance when attacking creatures that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of dvergir. Dvergir are still denied their Dexterity bonus to AC against attacks from creatures they cannot see.
Scent: Members of this race gain the scent ability.
Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light blinds a dvergr for 1 round; on subsequent rounds, she is dazzled as long as she remains in the affected area.

>>28922727

Forgot to mention: this sums up to 11 RP, same as the standard dwarf.

>>28918680
Somewhat. Their beards were more like very stiff whiskers. They could use them to store bug and other critter for latter eating.
Pretty cool concept all around.

>>28903910
>tfw bats emit cries with sound pressures of around 130dB (!) (which is just about the threshold at which sounds become painful to humans and significantly louder than the inside of a nightclub or watching a jet take off), but the frequency is so high we can't hear it.
>tfw they disconnect their eardrums whenever they squeak, reconnecting them in time to hear the echoes. They’re constantly temporarily deafening themselves as they fly.
>tfw we can do neither of these things
seriously though, bats fall under the 'DAMN NATURE, YOU SCARY' category, but with a twist of 'shit, that's cool'.

>>28923146
>humans walk into dwarven hall, all they hear is the quiet rumble of the forge/central fire.
>in actuality, they're emitting a deafening crescendo of noise.
wouldn't it be more fun to have them echolocate (and communicate) by infrasound? (e.g. 1-20Hz, below the threshold of human hearing). Low frequency waves carry more energy, but travel further...

>>28923208
With increased wavelength, the echoes become less sharp. There's a reason why bats and dolphins use high frequencies to begin with. The lower you go, the fuzzier everything gets.

>>28923208

>The study of such sound waves is referred to sometimes as infrasonics, covering sounds beneath 20 Hz down to 0.001 Hz. This frequency range is utilized for monitoring earthquakes, charting rock and petroleum formations below the earth

Fuck, that sounds awesome.

>"Shh."
>"What?"
>"There is stone oil three miles below us. I can hear it."

>>28923306
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound#Sources
Whales, elephants,[13] hippopotamuses,[14] rhinoceros,[15][16] giraffes,[17] okapi,[18] and alligators are known to use infrasound to communicate over distances—up to hundreds of miles in the case of whales. In particular, the Sumatran Rhinoceros has been shown to produce sounds with frequencies as low as 3 Hz which have similarities with the song of the humpback whale.[16] The roar of the tiger contains infrasound of 18 Hz and lower,[19] and the purr of felines is reported to cover a range of 20 to 50 Hz.[20][21][22] It has also been suggested that migrating birds use naturally generated infrasound, from sources such as turbulent airflow over mountain ranges, as a navigational aid.[23] Elephants, in particular, produce infrasound waves that travel through solid ground and are sensed by other herds using their feet, although they may be separated by hundreds of kilometres.

>>28923332
This makes more sense, actually. It's more of a stone sense than echolocation, but it keeps dwarven ears sturdy and resistant to high-frequency sonic damage because their hearing range is probably more shifted than extended. It doesn't help with the darkvision question, but it's an obvious advantage to mining.

>>28923370

>"Why is the dwarf raspberrying the wall?"
>"He says he can talk to the garrison at the outpost that way, warning them of the drow raiders."
>"... it looks more like he's making out with that huge rock formation."
>"Different strokes, man. Different strokes."

>>28923370
Uh. Yeah. Exactly. Increased travel and decreased detail.

>>28893488
With hammer and pick
We'll gut em right quick
I see, I see, I see, I see.

>>28923414

Don't need much detail for echolocation, or morse code communication.

Or were you talking about signal clarity?

>>28893399
Dwarves are actually blind, their beards are actually a great mane of individual, highly sensitive whiskers that detect even the slightest of vibrations.

so we're looking at multi-frequency dwarf morse code for communicating between strongholds/outposts. Is there any way a tuning fork of sorts could be incorporated into each? sort of like an amplifier that sends and a tuning fork to receive?

>>28923306

Actucally:


>Bat call frequencies range from as low as 11 kHz to as high as 212 kHz.[19] However, low frequencies are adaptive for some species with different prey and environments. Euderma maculatum, a species that feeds on moths, uses a particularly low frequency of 12.7 kHz that cannot be heard by moths.[21]

>>28923438
You definitely need detail for echolocation. Dolphins use high-frequency clicks so they can get a sharp longitudinal wave to bounce off solid objects. With lower frequency, it's more like OOooooOOOoooo and you can't get a sharp image back. That's why whales, being more solitary creatures that gather together to mate, have long-range, low-frequency sounds that travel thousands of miles. Those things just say "I'm a male whale," whereas a highly-social odontocete like a dolphin has lots to say to its family group and thus uses high-frequency noises to convey more information in a message of equal length.

>>28923444

Does someone I see read Artemis Fowl books?

>>28923510
I was thinking the same thing after I saw "Guided mine torpedo"

>>28923497
Cool. I'm not all that knowledgeable about the topic, so forgive the ignorance.

>>28923461
okay so there are exceptions to the rule. I would guess that moths are big and flappy enough that stealth is more important than accuracy.

>>28923401
darkvision could simply be explained by the rods vs cones in the eye. More rods for low light conditions (similar to nocturnal animals), less cones (so poor colour distinction, but you don't need that underground in the dark).
A little copypaste for explanation:
The photosensitive pigment inside the rods, rhodopsin, is particularly sensitive to low levels of light. During the day, in a daylight adapted eye, the rhodopsin breaks down so rapidly, it is ineffective for visual perception. At night-time, in the rod-rich eyes of dark-adapted animals, rhodopsin is created faster than it breaks down. Therefore, the threshold of light needed to stimulate the eye is reduced. It is just a minute fraction of the light needed to activate a cone cell for vision during the day.

So how would a dwarf produce infrasonic messages loud enough to travel a reasonable distance? I think humming with your skull on a rock might be good. Because of the lung power needed to do that, I would expect dwarven music to be extremely low and loud, which would be pretty kickass. It would also be useful to have oil-filled chambers in the skull to focus and capture sounds. In that case, putting your ear to the ground might be a common dwarven dungeoneering procedure, but the dwarf wouldn't actually be using his or her ears.

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is this archived yet?
cos it should be

>>28923701

They have strong fibers in their beards that they rub together, like grasshoppers and crickets, only they produce infrasound instead of chirping.

>>28923701
We have false vocal folds on top of our regular vocal chords which can be trained to oscillate to produce a regular sound and one way lower. This is used in the deeper version of tuvan throat singing and tibetan "one voice" chanting.
decent videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf1hHPFGIhs (watch this one second)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDRoeVVeFZs (watch this one first)
and one where the same guy does this in a cave. spooky as shit, and reminiscent of dwarves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z6i2Vgs4nY

>>28923772
So they rub their faces on the rock to generate high-decibel resonance? I feel like we should go with occam's razor on this one. Dwarves should still be reasonably human, just drastically adapted.

>>28923510
I did as a kid, cracking good read. Got me liking Shadowrun before I knew what Shadowrun was.

>>28923701
>>28923792
imagine that but way way lower (drifting into infrasound), which you can just hear the tail end of when this gets to ~20Hz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukQ6OSs3dWo
turn it down low to begin with, and make sure you aren't using shitty headphones/speakers.

>>28923816
i vote for beefed up vocal chords/false vocal folds, see >>28923792
Could be that i have a fascination with deep human voices, but it doesn't seem like that far of a stretch to simply give them a crazy low voice register that we can't hear the bottom of.

>>28896911
>My X Are Different
There's nothing wrong with doing this as long as you're doing it because the changes make sense in your setting, detractors of this practice are effectively the Creationists of fiction.

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good show, /tg/, i'm stealing all of this in one form or other for dwarves in my homebrew. Have some dwarfy pics as thanks.

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>>28923952

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>>28924000

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>>28924015
(this passes as both giant and dwarf)

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>>28924043
(ganon as a dwarf)

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>>28924111

>>28923497
And dwarves can do the same, operating on high and low frequencies depending what they need. Make sure that the tunnel turns in next 10 meters? Click and click. Locate ore 1km under your feet or communicate with neighbouring mine? Hum.

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>>28924167

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>>28924199

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>>28924230
dwarf faces. dwarf faces everywhere.

>>28923306
why not have both? high frequences for scouting their imediate sorounding, low ones for communication and searching for minerals in the stone

>>28924498
Well to be frank, I think it's OP to give them immunity to blindness on top of long-range underground communication and a mapping ability. And I don't know about you folks, but in my games Dwarves have low-light vision anyway, not darkvision. >>28923621 takes care of that.

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>>28924334
If you ignore the ears this guy looks dwarf-y enough.
i assume if they have less cones ala >>28923621 then their colour-detection is poorer, so they would favour primary colours and quite bright clothing.

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>>28924883

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>>28924926

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>>28925019

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>>28925102
dat beard

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>>28925218

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Contrabootan.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/28893399/

Gentlemen, it is done. Good job.

>>28925273
>>28924199

Now that is very interesting to me, primitive/tribal dwarves. Have any more like that?

>>28898891
A friend of mine died like that. The nitro sweated out of his dynamite sticks and he was blown up. I miss that guy.

>>28925399
i don't think so. Combing my hard drive at the moment, but i know i got it from /tg/, and the scenario was that dwarves constantly needed to "mine" their brothers out of the rock, otherwise they'd be feral by the time they reached them (think of uruk-hai from lord of the rings, only rock instead of mud, and there's an expiry date). It gave dwarves an impetus to mine like crazy and not be overly jewish.

>>28894239
same reason one whistles past a graveyard, anon.

>instant TPK

>>28893870
Isn't this from Artemis Fowl?

>>28896750
Maybe the hair on the heads of dwarf women is similar to the hair in the beards of dwarf men, so they they grow it out to aid in echolocation.

Or, dwarves without facial hair such as children and women don't venture far from light in their subterranean cities compared to the men, so travelers assume that there are no dwarf women or that dwarf women also have beards.

Or your dwarf women have beards, whatever works for you.

I love blocky architecture, armor, and vehicles, like dwarves have.
I find mountain holds to be way more awesome than tree towns
Hammers > Swords

Why the fuck do I prefer Elves?

>>28926660
Because it isn't rape.

>>28926660
Because Noldor are awesome brah.

>>28926660
Because elves partly play on human beauty/power qualities. We subconsciously afford taller people more power, and elves are traditionally drawn with contemporary model-like features.
Would be real interesting to have some ugly elves, but then they wouldn't be elves, ya dig?

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>>28926660
>Implying you can't have both of these things

>>28898122
>Twisted Nerve
named after the original film it came from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JsaNjEMdA4

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>>28925399
>>28925558
>mfw nobody know how to Reverse Image search except me.

Illustrations seem to be from a swedish version of D&D called Drakar och Demoner, based on scandinavian mythology.

>Page of the one who seems the artist responsible:
http://www.pinterest.com/psun22/art-of-paul-bonner/

>The game in question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakar_och_Demoner

>>28894700
>warrior-attorney
>battle-trial
This is the most awesome concept I've seen today.

>>28893399
Of course, that's only half of the story. The sing-sonar of dwarves is only the start of their fantastic extrasensory abilities.
It all is about their beards. There's a reason that Dwarves don't shave ever. Their beards are actually mystacial vibrissae similar to a cat's whiskers or a walrus's mustache, but much, MUCH more sensitive than that. This causes shaving to be painful, but the Dwarf can physically FEEL even tiny vibrations with his beard. His singing and whistling releases the sonar, which bounces off the walls, the reflections of the sound are then picked up by the beard, and the dwarf brain translates the beard's data into a sense of their surroundings.

>>28893870
>>28918680
>>28923444
>>28926005
>>28928237

So many people, not reading the thread before posting.

>>28894010
>be dwarf
>fightan some wizard, swinging my axe
>he casts some weird spell
>suddenly blind
>fumble around for a while, achieve nothing
>he uses my blindness to get out of my reach and starts casting safely
>feel disintegrating ray make contact
>joke's on him, I was actually using sonar

>>28923208
The problem there is the whole fundamental resolution limit thing. It's difficult to resolve anything too far below the wavelength of the wave you're using, so with a frequency of 1Hz your resolution would be on the scale of hundreds of meters.