So, /tg/, how would I go about playing a Sikh-flavored Paladin?I admit to knowing very little about their faith.Could you enlighten me?
They've got some pretty Sikh moves.
>>27796423Keep the thread alive, wait for the experts to rise and answer.Above all, don't despair.
>>27796127I know that we have a Sikh anon, with some luck he'll show up. Also you have excellent taste, OP. Sikhs are awesome.List of stuff that a Sikh shouldn't do (ripped from Wikipedia) which should be a good guideline for a Sikh-based paladin:Cutting hair: Cutting hair is strictly forbidden in Sikhism. Sikhs are required to keep unshorn hair.Intoxication: Consumption of alcohol, drugs, tobacco, and other intoxicants is not allowed. Intoxicants are strictly forbidden for a Sikh. Blind spirituality: Superstitions and rituals should not be observed or followed, including pilgrimages, fasting and ritual purification; circumcision; idols & grave worship; compulsory wearing of the veil for women; etc.Material obsession: Obsession with material wealth is not encouraged in Sikhism.Sacrifice of creatures: The practice of sati (widows throwing themselves on the funeral pyre of their husbands), ritual animal sacrifice to celebrate holy occasions, etc. are forbidden.Non-family-oriented living: A Sikh is encouraged not to live as a recluse, beggar, yogi, monastic (monk/nun) or celibate. Sikhs are to live as saint-soldiers.Worthless talk: Bragging, lying, slander, "back-stabbing", etc. are not permitted.Priestly class: Sikhism does not have priests; they were abolished by Guru Gobind Singh (the 10th Guru of Sikhism).Eating meat killed in a ritualistic manner (Kutha meat): Sikhs are strictly prohibited from eating meat from animals slaughtered in a religiously prescribed mannerHaving extramarital sexual relations.
>>27796585Also, going unarmed. Sikh's got to rock the sword, to better be awesome when destiny calls.
>>27796585So basically it should be a lot easier for your paladin to fall than usual, but on the bright side you'd be the coolest-looking paladin anyone's ever seen.
>>27796585>All those prohibitions against doing ritualistic thingsIs that specifically like, the non-sikh neighboring religions or is this a religion which is actively against... well, religion-ness?
>>27796585This seriously sounds like a very good faith.
>>27796617In a way, it's a religion where all men are more or less expected to be paladins.
>>27796585Are they Abrahamic?Mono- or polytheistic?
>>27796643I'm pretty sure they exist as a cohesive thing because they were organized against a certain sect of Islam at some point.Which is also why so many of their specific quirks seem militant, such as carrying around a dagger.
>>27796643As I understand it, Sikhism was originally started as a kind of counter-movement, alternative or whatever you choose you call it to both Hinduism and Islam, which would explain why it teaches that things like ritual slaughter are bad things.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism See the wikipedia article, I honestly don't know much about this religion, so I'm really the wrong person to ask.
>>27796671Not Abrahamic, but monotheist.From what I recall of religious ed, the founders of it were opposed to the muslim Muhgal empire, hence the ban on veils and ritual slaughter of meat animals. Plus, the traditional surname Singh means Lion
>>27796671Monotheistic, but not Abrahamic. Look it up, it's a quite interesting religion.
>>27796585>>27796617So every Sikh is already a paladin? This'll be easy
I recall reading somewhere once that a Sikh is honor bound to defend the weak, even if it means sacrificing one's own life to save the life of a stranger. Pretty fucking boss if you ask me.
>>27796804Basically, but you get to wear a bad-ass turban and have a glorious beard in addition to being Lawful Good and constantly armed.Also no vow of celibacy, go home and be a family man instead.
>inb4 /tg/ becomes SikhThey do seem like cool dudes.I think I shall base a culture on Sikhism in my setting.
>>27796835Yeah, that's what the knife is for.
>>27796835They also take charity, equality and sharing in general pretty seriously. So protecting the week also means feeding those who can't feed themselves, even if they don't share your own faith.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism)
>>27796863>go home and be a family man instead.Seems like that would be tough in most campaigns.
>>27796585>Christianity: BE CHRISTIAN>Islam: BE MUSLIM>Judaism: BE JEWISH>Sikhism: DON'T BE A CUNTBest religion or best religion?
Remove kebab and save orphans.
>>27796919If you want /tg/ related Sikhism, you can field some UK armies in Flames of War as Sikhs. They generally have better Motivation (i.e they are braver and are less likely to admit defeat) than normal British forces, and scare the hell out of the enemy in close combat due to their war cries.
>>27796804All Sikh men are supposed to wear swords to cut down injustice. Literally, if need be.So, uh, yeah.
>>27796922Sikhs confirmed for grade-A bros in my book.
>>27796951Jews don't generally try to convert others, though. That's mostly a Christian and Muslim thing.
>>27796951>DON'T BE A CUNT AND HAVE AN AWESOME BEARDfix'dWAITARE DWARFS JUST SIKHS BUT UNDERGROUND?They don't shave, they're always armed, and they tend to be Lawful Good.
>>27797028Dwarfs covet gold. That's material possesion, so that would be a no. Paladins are all Sikhs though.
>>27797028Dwarves drink massive amounts of beer, though. Sikhs don't.
>>27797040Yeah, okay, that makes sense.I'm still going to have a culture of sikh dorfs.But yeah. Sikhs confirmed for IRL Paladins.
>>27797016To be fair, a lot of that is rooted in their own racism and xenophobia, justified or not.
>>27797007Sadly in most countries the Kirpan has been legislated down into something barely better than a butter knife.yes, America too. Murica has a weird schizophrenic thing where we allow people to own guns but you can't carry a sword.
>>27796127Watch these videos, the 3 swordsmanship vids are especially good.http://www.youtube.com/user/Shastarvidiya/videosFairly certain it's the same guy from OP's pic.
>>27797119Depends on the state.
>>27797118True, trying to convert everyone to the one true faith (whatever that might be) has always been mostly an excuse to be an asshole to others, it rarely has much to do with the actual religion itself.Let's focus on how neat Sikhism is here, though.
>>27796585Between all this and being in favor of an armed population, I could see myself getting behind something like this.Now, I'd be curious what I'd turn up if I did some research into where they've fucked up in the past and how often their rules get throw aside to do whatever suits the will of those in power.
>>27797127http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLTcVJGMBkQThis really is the best dress-code out of any religion. Those glorious beards, matched only by the beautiful swords.
The word Paladin even sounds sort of middle Eastern (Even though it isn't)PaladinSalahaddinand so on
>>27797260The underwear is a little odd.
>>27797338Hound, didst thou say about mine companions?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin
Sikh's are A-okay in my book. Gonna do some research.
>>27797352Totally worth it for the sweet turbans.
>>27797240They have served a lot of shitty despots throughout history.Including Britain, the world's biggest narcotrafficker ever in history.
>>27797016Jews don't want more Jews.Diffusion of power is a bad thing.
>>27797428They also apparently make up a rather large percentage of India's officer corp.
>>27797428Britain did that in China. In India, Britain did a lot to help people, stimulating business and infrastructure and wiping out criminals and eveil groups like the Thugs.
>>27797352best get used to the Sikh boxers. Part of their tenants is to always be ready for battle at a moments notice. That means never being completely naked.
>>27797352Less odd than the mormon magic underwear.
>>27797487B-But how do they change them?
>>27797516How? It's the same damn thing.
>>27797517take one leg out of dirty pair, insert into clean pair. Then do the other leg.
>>27797517One leg at a time, presumably.
>>27797468Best watch yo mouth, nigga.Il Kali-ma u m8 fo'sho.
So basically: Be Lawful Good.Get a manly beard and a glorious turban.Never go anywhere unarmed.Don't get drunk.Don't be a dick.Give any loot you don't need to the poor who need it more.Don't go around trying to smite the heathens all the time, since that's being a dick.So yes, you'd be the best Paladin.
>>27797468Well first off, opium use was made much more widespread during British Rule over India. It stll is today.You have to go to Mumbai and watch a half dozen guys huddling in a dogshit filled alLEY getting high to really understand how bad their junkie problem is there, amongst the lower castes mostly. They barely bother to conceal it.So yeah, the British fucked that whole place up too.
>>27797557The joke is that your culture has been almost completely exterminated!
>stumbles across Sikh thread>expects the worse>Finds everybody generally thinking Sikh's are awesome.what the hell is happening in this thread?
>>27797566What about coffees, teas, and tobacco?
>>27797524>>27797545Sikh Boxers: Remind ones self of the commitment to purityMormon Underwear: Supposed to actually protect you from physical harm through the magic power of religion.Yeah, that's totally the same thing.
>>27796646It's about 99% "Fuck Islam!"
>>27797588They're both ritualistic undergarments. The intent doesn't really matter. Functionally they're identical.
>>27797578Sikhs being cool guys, that's what's happening. So cool that even /tg/ are being chill and having civil discussions rather than trying to bite each others necks of like in pretty much every other religion thread ever made.
>>27797570Is that in Punjab though?
>>27797602So it's the best faith?
>>27797585Tobacco is also a big no no, but coffee and tea seems okay. Apparently there's also a small, local group that uses cannabis in rituals, but it's not a widespread thing in Sikhism.
>>27797603>The intent doesn't really matter. Functionally they're identical.Functionally they're identical to normal underwear.It matters that one is symbolic, and the other is presumed to have actual magic powers.
So... Sikhism: the Official /tg/ Religion?
>>27797578What did you expect?Even most of /pol/ considers Sikhs to be among the foreigners that they actually like.You don't thing /tg/'s fedora enough to foam at the mouth over every religion do you?
>>27797657Nah, we like beer too much. Also the average fa/tg/uy is practically celibate, which goes against the ideals as well.
>>27797657I think we can all agree that we'd rather have some of whatever was up with ancient Minoa, where the girls went around topless all the time.
>>27797743They probably didn't have manly turbans and soup kitchens, though.
>>27797657>implying we all have families and beautiful healthy babbys>implying we could give up booze for game night>implying any of us would take down our alters and end our ritual blood sacrifice to the dice gods every Friday night I think we're agreed that they've got some cool tenants though
>>27797028> Covet material wealth> Drink excessively> Never wash or bathe in any waySikhs are about as far from dwarves as possible. Not CUTTING hair is not the same as not CARING for it.
>>27797700>>27797764Still, the part about never shaving or cutting your hair is right up /tg/s alley. The part about not obsessing over material possessions, not so much (as that's kind of what we do the most).
>>27797688I tend to think that Westerners mostly respect Sikhism the same way they think Zen Buddhism is cool: they just hear the compelling principles that made it catch on in the first place.A religion hostile to the rituals and social standards of Hinduism and Islam, where every man is expected to be a warrior, is probably perceived fairly differently in a place where Hinduism and Islam are common religions and there are many members of the religion.
I once played a monotheistic Paladin based on the Sikh faith, although by the end he was an amalgamation of Sikh, Islamic*, and Hindu. His religion stated that there was only one true God, Diem, who created the Planes and populated them with the various races. Originally, there were two suns in the sky above the Material Plane, and these were the eyes of Diem. Unfortunately, Diem's gaze was too bright, and the heat blighted the land. To spare the people, Diem purposefully put out His left eye, reducing the heat and creating the moon. Because of this, both the sun and the moon are sacred symbols of Diem. To explain the obvious existence of other gods, Diests believe that they are merely 'emanations of Diem's holy light, as are rays from the sun', so in this way Diem was sort of like Brahma. My Diest went into battle wearing a turban, chainmail armor, and a robe, armed with a moon-shaped sword and a sun-shaped shield. He couldn't drink anything harder than tea, and even then only special blends and without sugar, and would eat a very meager diet. He spent most of his time studying scripture, meditating, and honing his body, gave generously of his wealth to orphanages, poorhouses, and good-aligned churches (because, as all gods but Diem are simply emanations of His will, to give to a good church is to give to Diem). He kept only enough wealth to upkeep and upgrade his equipment. He was fun to play.*I know, I'm sorry.
Contributan some sci fi Sikh
>>27797832How do they fit their beards and hair inside their small helmets?
>>27797797They still wash themselves and make sure their beards are well groomed.>>27797848Buns.
>>27797816Man, I've been wanting to do something like this for a while.Our group loves our mini's and terrain though and finding a good non-European/Oriental mini is borderline impossible.Might need to crack out the green stuff and get practicing. One of the guys once sculpted fur all over a Monk model and added a tail so he could play a monkey-race.
>>27797886You'll want to look for companies that make historic minis rather than fantasy ones. Try Perry Miniatures.
>>27797832>Not posting Kirpal SinghI'll forgive you but you really should think these things through.
>>27797743That was less of a religion and more of just a style. And it's not like they were the only ones.
>>27797886He was so much fun to play.Once bearded, Diest men braid their beards according to how old they are, with one braid per decade alive. My character was thirty-three, and so wore three braids. Diest women would do the same for their hair. Diest men wore their hair in a topknot under the turban.His ending was the best: after we successfully defeated the Dracolich that was attempting to merge the Material Plane with the Negative Energy Plane, Singh (Manvir Singh was his name, I remember! It means 'brave-minded lion') simply returned home to his people and started a family.
>>27797797Not really. The material only is relevant for its use.
>>27797987That fashion is to have popped back for a while in the 14th century. Made St Birgitta throw a hissy fit when she passed through.
>>27798045Sounds like you have a story to tell.
>>27798069Nothing much to it. Birgitta was out travelling, probably going to Jerusalem, noticed a bunch of tits hanging out along the way, and as always when she didn't like something God very reliably sent her a lot of visions about how everyone doing it would burn in hell.
>>27798069What's to tell?Prudish saint hates bare tits and throws a fit. News at 11.
>>27798024Suuuure it is.
>>27798122If she had been a Sikh she would've slapped a few along the way. Tits, I mean.
>>27797807Seem to have ended up in life working with a lot of Sikh engineers over the years, as well as some Hindu's and crazy fucking Pakis.Out of all 3, the Sikh's are the least likely to give a shit what my culturally apathetic, atheist white-arse is doing in the office, plus we'll both rip into a steak and bacon sandwich for the simple reason that it'll annoy the other two :pCulturally they've gone through some turbulent events over the times which has formed the modern day Sikh, few attempts at secession to form their own nation and so forth, Hindu's apparently can't fight wars for shit and ended up being the core of the Indian military since before WW2. Sikhism as a political movement though, is different from the Sikh spiritual lifestyle which dictates that a life led being proactive, physical, pure, self controlled and honest, is of a higher purpose than a life led in contemplation; which is a distinct difference from Buddhism and Hinduism which is somewhat more metaphysical, self centred and introspective.
>>2779781610/10 Would adventure with.
>>27798168>we'll both rip into a steak and bacon sandwich for the simple reason that it'll annoy the other twoHave a beer with it to complete the picture.That's a good point, though, about Sikhism being focused on the here and now instead of some otherworldly fantasy nonsense.
>>27798168Buddhism/Hinduism - Believe in yourself!Sikhism - Do it yourself!
>>27798335>Have a beer with it to complete the picture.Sikhs aren't supposed to drink beer. Eating meat is frowned upon, but is not expressly forbidden.
>>27798223Thanks, buddy. He was great.It'd be fun to play him again.I remember the name of the nation he came from - it was called 'Anarchand'. It was a desert region (the aforementioned land that was blighted by Diem's gaze) and there were no kings. Instead, every man of age would cast a vote every seven years to elect a village leader, who would direct the affairs of the village until it was his time to step down. These village leaders would sometimes convene to direct the course of the region at large - for example, to repel invaders.
>>27798656That's the joke.
>>27797797Though the concept of the Langar, the communal eating bit of sikhism, is kinda up /tg/ ally if you squint and ignore the point of Langar.>>27797807Well in bits of india there's 5 way fights between the christians, the muslims, the hindus, the sikhs and the buddhists, so it's not all roses.And the sikh majority in the punjab kinda wants independence from india, which led to a massive cluster fuck in the early 80s, with sikhs attacking each other over sect allegiances, and one sect forting up in the holiest temple of the religion and hoarding guns - which ended with the indian army massacring everyone inside the temple in process of clearing them out (which in turn led to a sikh assasinating the president of india in retaliation).
Note that this is apparently a depiction of a khalsa soldier killing a DRUNK elephant.Note maces hanging off the tusk of the elephant.
>>27798722>one sect forting up in the holiest temple of the religion and hoarding gunsThis is the religion of /k/.
>>27798796In Scandinavia, people did that in churches all the time.
>>27798787ELEPHANTELEPHANT STOPYOU'RE DRUNK GO HOMEELEPHANTDON'T MAKE ME DO THIS
>>27798656> Eat bacon sandwiches with Sikh buddy to piss off Hindus and Buddhists> Get drunk without him.
>>27798722That's pretty rough. India is a wild place these days. Still, i have to ask. Did he assassinate the president with a sword?
>>27799045Well it was They not he; Indiran Gandhi's bodyguards were both sikh and one shot her with his side arm while the other unloaded a magazine into her with a sten as she was walking past their post - and in keeping with the "religion of /k/" the groupings must have been pretty tight because of the 31 shots they fired, 30 hit her.
>>27797588>>27797602>>27797603>>27797631Hey guys. I would like to point out that the Sikh underwear double as swimming trunks, thereby not only representing the symbolic nature of readiness as a soldier, but also the practical and dualistic nature of the faith.All of the trappings of the faith have both a symbolic and practical purpose. For the iron bracelet, it is to ward off blows, the comb and knife are self-explanatory, and the turban can be used to bind wounds and swaddle infants.
>>27799274Well, not nearly as exciting, but>dat spreadI guess it's true what they say: there's no such thing as overkill
>>27799274>sten>of the 31 shots they fired, 30 hit herWell, darn.Adding "not fuck with Sikhs" on my to-do list.
>>27796127That char-aina looks like it was made for someone with quite a lot less belly than he has.
>>27799508Might've even been him, just a good number of years back.
>>27799274>Sikhs.>Killing a Ghandi.Tst, that's a nasty mark on their record.
>>27799437Don't get too impressed. It was a surprise assassination by the target's own bodyguard. He wasn't shooting from a distance, or under difficult circumstances.
>>27799642She bombed a sacred Sikh temple whilst she had Sikh bodyguards. She should've received a Darwin Award.
>>27799642An unrelated Gandhi - she's actually the descendent of Neru, which is almost as bad really - who's got a rather mixed reputation. Basically the whole thing with the sikh temple happened in amongst a "national state of emergency" in which she'd basically made her self temporary dictator and rewrote bits of the constitution to stop herself from being kicked out of office for reasons of corruption.Though yeah, her assassination led to massive anti-sikh riots across india, thousands got killed and displaced. Really nasty mess and the hindu nationalists are kinda known for hate baiting like motherfuckers over it to this day.
>paladin with exotic weaponsbam
>>27799858Oh, wow, thanks man!
>>27797832He looks like he's dancing to that song from Footloose that repeats the word Never seven hundred times.
How have we not mentioned Baba 'I don't give a flying fuck about being decapitated, I have Afghans to kill, justice to uphold and innocents to protect' Deep Singh?
>>27800082One of the best stories ever told. Fighting while holding on to your head so it doesn't fall off
>>27799642>You sound pretty retarded.
>>27800163>while holding on to your head so it doesn't fall offAnd swinging a 30lb sword in the other.
>>27800137http://www.badassoftheweek.com/babadeepsingh.htmlProbably tells it best
>>27799836>she's actually the descendent of Neru, which is almost as bad reallyThe same Neru that foddled while Rume barned?
>>27797886Citadel has some decent stuff on ebay just type in citadel fighter, they used to do alot more than just European knights.I've always wanted to do something similar...for Tzeentch a holy warrior traveling the land fighting disease and things that Tzeentch hates like the undead, because if any chaos God knows the value of good publicity it's Tzeentch.
>Founded in the 15th century AD by the Guru Nunak Dev, Sikhism has grown through the efforts of successive Sikh Gurus who espoused the virtues of peace, equality, and selfless service. Sikhism has over 20 million followers in the present-day, based primarily in the Punjab region of India. The Sikhs believe in only one god, who has no physical form, but every Sikh has the ability to speak to God, and all are equal in God's eyes.>Sikhs are known for their generosity towards others, as one of the primary tenets of their religion is the idea that all people are created equal, regardless of religion, race, or sex. In differing from other major religions, Sikhism supports that belief that acts of good in service to others are more important than any form of ritual. Sikhs are also bound to defend against injustices, supporting all who are oppressed, as truth and peace should prevail above all else. The Sikhs believe that to attain salvation, every Sikh must practice disciplined meditation, as only through personal observance and focus on God can salvation be reached.>There are a number of restrictions placed on the followers of the Sikh faith, including the requirement that they not cut their hair, not consume any intoxicating substances, and notably, not perform any ritual, superstition, or pilgrimage.If Sikhs can't perform rituals, how could Sikh paladins pray for spells?
>>27801803Rather than praying, they have to live their lives.
>>27801936>Sikh paladins regain their spells per day by being awesome.
>>27797533It seems like you'd be less battle ready trying to do that than just taking off a pair and putting on a new pair. Doing it leg by leg leaves you vulnerable for longer, and if you get caught in the middle of it, fighting with two pairs of underwear one on each leg would be much more difficult than butt naked combat.
>>27797260Interesting. I'd love to see that fighting style against German longsword. Since longswords are ALL ABOUT binding, and that style has no binding whatsoever.
>>27796423I've heard they've got sikh beards as well?
>>27800218Wiki says 30kg, which is obviously wrong but which I will choose to believe.
>>27797990Manvir is brave minded indeed. Man is mind and veer or vir in this case is courage or bravery. Singh means lion because they are descended from the Punjab Rajputanas who had lions as their royal symbol.
>>27798866I dont think anything in Hinduism forbids meat, all the cow meat hysteria came about due to the rising popularity of buddhism in 300 BC and its initial non-violent diet of vegan habits collided with the old ways of brahminism where they had pashuweda or cow sacrifice as a practice during the yagnyas of the then gurus and priests.The no meat policy was used to mirror hinduism adjustment to compete with Buddhism. The only thing is that policy became more widely accepted as the years went on and became a standard belief mostly in the north for a time.In the south there are hindus who eat cow, beef and pork. And they drink, south indians are fucking horrible drunkards. I should know. I am one.Anything else?
Just putting it out there, Oriental Adventures splatbook for D&D 3.0(and 3.5, it didn't see an update in Dragon magazine) has a prestige class called Sikh Rager. It's Sikh or Singh, I always forget. Anyways, it meshes with Paladin splendidly. Check it out if you're interested in this character.
>>27802904I thought the vegetarianism was originally a Jainist thing that buddhism just kind of picked up too?
>>27802938Buddha died from eating undercooked/poisoned pork based on the translation. It's not strictly a Buddhist tenet that they can't eat meat. The most common translation is that you can't eat meat killed specifically for you.
>>27802938Jainists take that way further, it's part of Ahimsa. The really devout ones go and starve themselves to death to avoid harming any other.
>>27802938No, vegetarianism is a proscribed diet since ancient times, it isnt specific to any religion, it is the alternative to the early pastoral humans, which is the first agricultural humans, who are the cause for civilizations were predominantly vegetarian, it is the later merging of the pastoral and agricultural elements of humanity after some calamity, likely the retreating glaciers and ending iceage that flooded the now sunken coastal places in the outilne of the current geographic maps, that caused meat eating to gain an overall appreciation.Atleast that is what I think. Also Tirthankaras are something that is so ancient that it is kind tought to track it all.
>>27797119You can own a sword, you can't always carry a gun, etc., etc.
>>27796127Sikh and ye shall find, bagh nakh and the door shall be opened unto you.
>>27796946So either adopt the party as your family or go adventuring with your Sikh paladin wife.
>>27803067And always protect the weak. If someone is being picked on, you fucking step in and stop it. That is a tenant of their faith and I am sure it is written so in the Granth
>>27797631>>27797588>magic powersJust so you know,No. Mormons do not believe that. They offer protection from evil and a reminder of covenants. A lot of Mormons have stories of bullets stopping just short of the garment, burns on the arms up to the garment line, etc, but none of them go into danger expecting the garment to protect them. It's an extra miracle thing that no one's actually seen firsthand. So yes it's the same thing.
>eschews pointless ritual>has a bunch of pointless ritualsalways reminds me of Christianity and the nominal ban on idolism. Otherwise though, Sikhism is easily 8/10 best religion
>>27803294>Christianity and the nominal ban on idolismDon't you mean "Catholicism and the nominal ban on idolatry"?
>>27803358no, pretty much all of it. My grandparents are Orthodox and it's much worse there. And protestants in the US have their megachurches and false prophets so they're awful too
>>27803294>has a bunch of pointless ritualsOther than "no cutting hair" they all seem to have a purpose or are reasonable to me. I mean, I may be intoxicating myself to and from with alcohol and coffee, but that doesn't mean I think some people are avoiding them for "pointless" reasons.And if "you shouldn't cut off a natural part of your body" is the most contradictory part of your religion, I think you're pretty ok anyway.
>>27803429Oh, yeah orthodox is bad too. False prophets and megachurches are American anomalies, though, and even in the US they're rare.
>>27803472I mean more of the clothing restrictions and objects you're required to carry. I understand they're just supposed to be reminders of their duty and symbolic or whatever, but when you're 100% inflexible about them it enters pointless ritual territory. Always being prepared to fight, staying clean, keeping your beliefs in mind at all times; I am all for these things, it's just you don't need to carry a blunt knife or a turban to stay true to them
>>27803472I think it's either a show of faith or (possibly, I might be entirely wrong) the idea that cutting your hair is forsaking what your parents gave to you as part of life. I believe there's a religion that does this, and it's entirely possible it might be Sikhdom.
>>27803487I was only counting American protestantism because of pure numbers and because Anglicans are basically Catholics, anyway. Central and North European protestants are fine
>rituals are meaningless superstition and disallowed>must never cut hair EVERI agree that Sikhs are nice guys, bros even, but can we also agree that because of things like the above example they're not any more englightened or less full of shit than most other sects?
>>27797628So pretty much anything that has an extreme or unhealthy effect?
>>27803589The knife is supposed to be sharp (and sword length). The turban is 100% function. It's to keep your hair out of the way and clean during the day.
>>27803589>turbanwell, what the hell else are you going to wear when your hair reaches the ground if you don't have it put up, a fedora?>Always wear clean cotton boxersGranted, the never naked part is kinda over the top, but otherwise it comes into be prepared for battle and cleanliness.>Always carry a knifeRemember that this was originally a sword, not a blunt knife, a sword you could actually fight with. It is state regulations that have forced this to become a symbolic reminder, the original tenet is pretty reasonable.
>>27803658They don't do it as a superstition, I think you're attributing things where they don't belong.
>>27803691>the knife is supposed to be sharp and sword lengthbut it's not. I'm Canadian and the whole "sikh knives in school" thing is a constant issue here, and the current compromise is that they are dull as fuck, and sometimes soldered into their sheeths so they can't be used. So clearly the symbolism is more important that functionality, making them a ritual object>turban keeps hair out of eyesexcept it's a) still a ritual because you're saying a Sikh can ONLY have a turban, not hair band/hat/gel/anything else to serve the same function, and b) the long hair is a ritual in and of itself
>>27803699How else should that be interpreted other than "your rituals are superstition, our rituals are super awesome and cool"? rit·u·aladjective: ritual1. of, relating to, or done as a religious or solemn rite. "ritual burial"What is the correct definition of "ritual" and "superstition" that doesn't make this belief seem hypocritical by Sikh standards?
>>27803736When the options areA.) Dull knifeB.) Arrested for carrying a weaponNobody is going to pick B.)
>>27803753Your argument is incomplete.http://www.thefreedictionary.com/superstitiona. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.b. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.c. Idolatry.There's no supernatural reason for not cutting hair, unless you can produce one. What "laws of nature" are they ignoring?
>>27803736>the current compromise is that they are dull as fuckYou take what you can get. The functionality is important, but if you can't have it, you can at least have the symbolism. Though I'd like to hear how an item being symbolic of something makes it a ritual object. Flags are symbolic, are they ritual objects?> except it's a) still a ritual because you're saying a Sikh can ONLY have a turbanExcept I didn't., not hair band/hat/gel/anything else to serve the same functionExcept turbans aren't the only thing they use to serve that function (and I'd like to see you gel a yard of hair out of the way)> and b) the long hair is a ritual in and of itselfSymbolic =/= Ritualistic
>>27803803Are Sikhs allowed to wear,say, baseball caps, Fez's, or, dare I say it, Fedoras?Is it any headcovering or specifically woven ones like a turban?
I wonder what would happen if the wookie child or someone born completely hairless(or gets chemotherapy) was also a Sikh?I'm sure disabilities and mutations would be allowed to break the very tenents, and technically a bald person or someone going through chemotherapy isn't intentionally cutting their hair off.
>>27803871By the religion, yes. The head coverings are traditional, not religious. The only part that's religiously significant is the wooden comb, which represents hygiene.
I don't know what the religious penalty in Sikhism is for cutting hair, but I do know that most of the young Sikhs I've ever met do cut their hair. So it's clearly not that important to them.
>>27803871I don't know, but even if it was required to be a turban, the definition of what a turban is is much looser than the specific kind of headwrap we associate with Sikhdom such as in the OP.
>>27803766when you still carry the object when the original purpose is completely gone, it's down to ritual>>27803803I guess we have differing ideas on when symbolic becomes ritualistic. The way I see it, the ironclad necessity that Sikhs wear the turban, carry the kirpan, etc. pushes it into ritualism because when something is compulsory it's a big push towards ritualism. You bring up flags which is actually a good example because if anything I'd compare this all to something like singing the national anthem or saying the pledge of allegiance - symbolic gestures with good reasons behind them that have grown into full nationalistic rituals because they are basically compulsory. In a lot of places not conforming with them is treated basically like religious heresy.Anyway, I don't want to harp on this point. I guess I'm just a bit sad that a religion that tries hard to focus on the important aspects of good living and positive spirituality still manages to get bogged down in pointless requirements and rites in the end
>>27803774I'm questioning how it is fundamentally different from the motives behind similar beliefs in other religions; it's interesting because taboos on hair length and style come up several times in the religious texts of Judaism and Christianity. Okay, so Sikhs never cut their hair. But why? Because Guru Gobind Singh says so. That's it. And yet it's one of their requisites of faith. How is this significantly different from Mohammed telling you which direction to face when you pray or to go on pilgrimage? When Sikhism says "superstition" what it really means is "the tenets of faiths other than ours".
>>27803960Well a lot of people follow faith as more of a tradition, especially young people.It's reason why a lot of Jewish people aren't actually Jewish.
>>27803980>ironcladBut it's not. Many Sikhs in the west do neither of those things.
>>27803871I'm pretty sure they are not. I know for a fact that in Canada and the UK, Sikhs are allowed to wear their turban in place of other "mandatory" headgear (in the Mounties and Queen's Guards, for example) and there was a huge fight over that, so it really is a huge deal
Apparently they don't cut their hair because they view hair as a gift from God.http://www.realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248364871&ucat=7
>>27803871I worked with a sikh who usually wore a turban, but would sometimes just wear a baseball hat. none of the other sikhs working there seemed to care. he was young, so it may have been seen as socially holding him back or something.
>>27804054But Sikhs don't believe that because of a single cherry-picked New Testament quote (the same NT that also condemns long hair in Corinthians). Sikhs believe it because Guru Gobind Singh told them they should. So now they do. They're guilty of the same blind following of rituals that they accuse other religions of perpetrating.
>>27804257>not cutting off a part of your body is the same as praying to mecca 5 times a day, cutting off a piece of a baby's dick, or dunking people in a river to wash away their sinsYeah nah, I can see a definite logic to the Sikh's thing about hair. It is a natural part of your body and if you were supposed to cut it off, we wouldn't have it.
>>27804335>or dunking people in a river to wash away their sinsSikhs have baptism.
>>27804362Reading about the ritual, it like many things in Sikhism seems purely symbolic, rather than actual act of appeasing a supernatural force.
>>27802000>>27801936They think about how awesome life and their deity is over family breakfast, with discussion instead of praying.THEN they go out and kick ass.And get back in time for dinner.
>>27801803>The Sikhs believe that to attain salvation, every Sikh must practice disciplined meditation, as only through personal observance and focus on God can salvation be reached.Maybe this?
>>27804394Yeah, there's a huge difference between "I wear a hat as a show of my association with Sikhdom" and "I wear a hat because God will get pissed if I don't".
>>27798168So it is basically the religion Teddy Roosevelt would have joined if he had traveled East.Now I am picturing my favorite president as a Sikh, and finding nothing really different in the picture. (besides more facial hair and a turban)
>>27797533am I the only one who prefers to fight in the nude?
>>27798841they stopped that somewhere in the 18th century tho
During one of the more turbulent times in my life, I spent a lot of time at a Sikh Temple. I can say hands down, they are some of the best people you will ever meet.They will accept you as a long-lost family friend, and never once force their religion on you. The are trustworthy, kind, stalwart and selfless. I was more of a drunk than I usually am, and they saw to it that I was fed, and watched out for in exchange for me teaching the skills I know: Sideshow and swordsmanship. I taught I.33 sword and buckler to the Gatka practitioners, and various traditional sideshow stunts, which originate from Indian Yogi and Fakir rituals anyways. They never said a word about my smoking or drinking, except as concerned friends. They never judge as long as one isn't doing out right evil. Honestly, if I didn't enjoy my self destructive hedonism, I would have converted years ago. Yeah, I am a total Sikhaboo.Pic is a Sikh in India showing his faith by having a brick smashed off his head with an axe.
>>27805082Oh, and they will defend any one, or any temple, regardless of faith or class. The Sikhs of New Orleans defend the local Christian churches and Jewish temples, just as readily as their own, in case of looters. Then there are the kind of Sikhs like this guy, who make us all look like pussies.http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/06/sikh-temple-president-hailed-hero-dies-defending-worshipers-from-gunman/
>>27805082>Pic is a Sikh in India showing his faith by having a brick smashed off his head with an axe.makes you wonder when the first sikh went "hey, i'm gonna totally let you smash this brick on my head with an axe. for god. thats sounds like a good idea."kinda makes it hard to believe they are straight edge.
>>27805136Its not a Sikh thing, its an Indian thing. Many of the various cults of India practice self-flagllation as a means of showing their inner strength/peace/devotion/whatever.A lot of the myth busters (a dangerous hobby of the atheistic inclined educated in the country) in India make a point of going around to these spectacles to debunk the ones that are using tricks to make it seem more dangerous or amazing than it is. These myth busters are often harassed or murdered by believers when they uncover fraudsters pretending to be Gurus/Yogis - of which there are many.
>>27805101Cry more. >>27805136Well, compared to the hardcore Catholics I grew up with...>Im going to wear this (pic) under my shirt, and slap it every time I feel guilty in church.Religion is weird bro. Obviously, its to show total bodily control and focus, yadda yadda yadds. I can't say much against it. I do it for money.
>>27805136Not really. When you eliminate the traditional methods of having a good time, you're left with the crazier ones.
>>27805136>for god.It's not really for God, as I understand it. It's just a show of how tough they are, which is religious because of the whole saint-soldier thing.
>>27805177Actually, as a professional sideshow performer, I'll flat out tell you, its about knowing anatomical physics and being able to control how you relax and tense your body. Anyone can learn it.The question is, are you confident enough to place a cinderblock over your crotch and let someone swing a sledge hammer at it without flinching?
>>27805178>Well, compared to the hardcore Catholics I grew up with...>Im going to wear this (pic) under my shirt, and slap it every time I feel guilty in church.what. the. fuck.i though self flaggelation was a thing monks did in the middle ages.I've never seen or heard of something like that before.fucking 'murrican christian fundamentalists.i'm catholic myself btw.
>>27805214they got a thing like this in the vatican too which is basically a barbed wire patch that they strap to their thigh.But y'know... it's only done in one tinytiny sect so...
>>27805214Hardcore Italian Roman Catholics. Mass was in Latin. The front three pews on the left hand side facing the altar had kneeling bars with a blunt triangular edge rather than padding, so it hurt while you knelt.This isn't a " 'murrican christian fundamentalists" thing. This was a "crazy old world catholic death cultists" thing.
>>27805209It's that too, but like most things in India its wrapped up in philosophy and mysticism to the point that the two are indistinguishable. There are many, many fruadsters that use these tricks as a way of pretending to be perfectly enlightened, and use them to gull the ignorant out of money in the claim that they too wil help you reach enlightenment following their 12 step patented Guru plans-tm.Its a big, filthy industry that exploits the poor and ignorant and there are many people who risk their lives to expose these fraudsters who make their money performing carnival tricks and calling them miracles.Now fuck off Gropey.
>>27805235>This isn't a " 'murrican christian fundamentalists" thing. This was a "crazy old world catholic death cultists" thing.whatever it was, it was fucked up and wrong.
>>27805235> Hardcore Italian Roman Catholics. Mass was in LatinUnless you are well past fifty I find this claim pretty dubious. Or this pain cult you clam to be a part of isn't Roman Catholic by the actual definition of the phrase.
>>27805248Whats fucked up is that my family is very inner city WOP.... The second church is out, its back to swearing, drinking and fucking without a pause. Dat Catholic forgiveness.
>>27805187Do kindly fuck off. Hes fine.
>>27805268Our Lady of Grace in Chelsea MA held Latin mass, and had had a convent of penitent nuns who also taught at the attached school.
>>27805309Dudes need to act more like Sikhs
>>27805309Nah, I think I'll stick around.Keep on spreading that cancer tho.Dude should just get a tumblr and you can go suck his cock there instead of turning /tg/ into his personal journal.
Aren't Sikh's honour bound to fight evil where ever they see it in a very literal sense? They pretty much are modern day Paladin's without any fluff.
>>27805356Well, get used to me. I've been a here a while.
>>27805368Yes, but in a universal sense. Of course if an old lady gets her purse stolen, its "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" in a heartbeat, but it also about defeating the worldly and human built evils. The feed anyone who comes to the temple, for no compensation or give a beggar their coat in the rain. It is not about being selfless or stoic, but about compassion for all living things against the harshness of the world.
>>27796951You're reminding me of that Asatru dude who shows up now and again.
>>27805424That is beautiful. I love the sentiment. "be kind, be polite, take no shit."
>>27805228You know that benedict the 16th was a hig hrankinbg member if opus dei and he was the last pope?He was grand inquistor before that too.But he is a profesor for theology so...well it still looks funny.
>TFW you will never go to a power lunch in a well tailored suit and your "business casual" kirpan.
>>27805521Considering I am going to check out the local temple tommorow...I'll let you know how it feels.
>>27805549I hope you find what you're looking for, anon!
>>27805511The Catholic Inquisition is not as exciting as it sounds.They mostly just check to see if priests are behaving appropriately and preaching within doctrine. Its a bureaucracy, its human resources not so much some scary or powerful Internal Affairs.
>>27805511Opus Dei is also not that interesting, and mortification of the flesh isn't widely practiced even among them.It's a case of the Church's grandiose titles making them sound more interesting and sinister than they are.
>>27805605Still, I wouldn't mess with a dude called Gran Inquisitor.That word has a very bad connotation here in europe.
>>27805627Of course it is.But I definitly have more fun this way, where is your sense of wonder?
>>27805605>"You know what the church needs to get back on track?"Oh God, Brother Gilbert is on that tangent again...>"You give me five minutes with some tumbscrews..."Just shut up and count candles.
>>27805647The Catholic Inquisition also wasn't involved much in torture. Historically they've had zero authority with the non-clergy. The only power they've ever had has been unofficial in the form of recommending 'suspicious individuals' to the secular authorities, who did all the murder and execution.The only Inquisition that was actively involved in that kind of activity was the Spanish Inquisition, which was mostly a secular organization in service to the monarch of Spain. Many popes tried to get rid of them.
Wait a Sikh thread that doesn't mention the fact of why they're all Lions (Singh) and Princesses (Kaur). No damn caste system.
>>27805671>Catholic InquisitionBy which I mean the Roman - not Catholic- Inquisition, to be more specific.
>>27805647>Back in the good ol' days... Damned literacy fucked us over...
>>27805647Certainly far funnier.By the way, the Grand Inuisitor (It was published later outside the Brothers Karamazov) is a nice read.
>>27805177>Many of the various cults of India practice self-flagllation as a means of showing their inner strength/peace/devotion/whatever.Well that is just plain bullshit. The only flagellation is done by the shi'ites of india during their holy day or something, but hindus dont do that. The one thing they do do is go on massive pilgrimages, sometimes hundreds of miles long with no shoes, I have been twice up this sacred mountain down in the south. There are motherfucking wild elephants that roam the place and more than a dozen people have died being attacked by them.
>>27805716I think he is use flagellation as a term to describe potentially hazardous faith-acts such as walking up ladders of swords or cheek skewering.
>>27796127I always get them confused, but are sikhs and gurkhas related or opposed in any fashion?
>>27800390You son of a bitch.
>>27805753They aren't related. And they aren't directly opposed. Ghurkhas are a tribe and ethnic group, Sikhs belong to a religious cult. Its quite possible to get Sikh Gurkhas.Sikhism is found predominately in certain ethnic groups and regions, but it is not like Judaism where it is restricted to membership from within that group.
>>27805741Im sure you'll say it dosn't hurt, but what DOES having your cheeks skwered feel like?
>>27805693>>27805671To be a bit more clear before the Roman and Spanish Inquisitions wre established, there wasn't really a twenty-four seven group called the Inquisition. Each Inquisition in the medieval period was put together to tackle particularly large or powerful heresies. The Templars and Cathars most infamously. There were standard Inquisitorial edicts (bishops had to check every couple of months for heretics in their congregation) but there wasn't one big overarching organization in charge of that stuff.Also heresy was never punished with death - except in the times the Church would refer punishment to a secular agent who might proscribe a capital punishment. Since a priest is not allowed to murder, and execution is murder. Through that kind of legalese you can say with a semi-straight face that the Catholic Church never actually killed anyone.
>>27805432You talking about me?
>>27805871They actually do it in such a way that it barely hurts outside a pinch, since they don't penetrate any major nerves. They're very careful about where they push the needles or hammer the nails.The peasants of course don't have this knowledge and believe they are relieved from pain using mystical means.There was a very famous guru that amassed a fortune using these kinds of tricks, and developed a huge congregation. He ordered the skeptics that were trying to debunk him to be killed by his followers.Don't remember how that worked out in the end.
>>27805753Gurkhas are angry mountain men from Nepal, Sikhs are angry men from the Punjab, they are near each other, but are quite separate.
>>27805913InB4 pics of Gropey
I actually did a paper on Sikhism not a month ago.The Khalsa, their militant order(used to be, anyway) require the Sikh to carry the five K's:The Kesh - Uncut hair/beard, symbolizing the way God made man.The Kangha - A small wooden comb inserted into said hair, used for grooming it. Represents spiritual purity.The Kara - A small steel braclet, represents the bond a Sikh shares with God, but also with his Sikh community and mankind in general.The Kirpan - A sword of any length between a few inches to 3 feet long. Shows that the Sikh is willing to defend his faith, the 'truth' and the weak.The Kachera - Reminds a Sikh to be monogamous.After that they have a bunch of rules such as not drinking alcohol and utilising drugs(of any kind, i.e. even tobacco), being good to everyone because they believe God lives in everyone and this means they are good to God, reincarnation, the 10 Guru's, the book Granth Sahib(which is the 11th Guru) amongst various others.
>>27805871Obviously pressure and a stretching sensation, but the most definitive feeling, and the one that could see being interpreted in a spiritual sense, is the fact that it makes you very aware of your inner ear.The middle of your cheeks is not set up to compensate for weight in such a way, and much like a suspension or the feeling of putting in very heavy earrings for the first time, it makes you acutely aware of your balance, in every minute movement. Just the awareness of the pitch and yaw of your own walking can be a little disorienting.Obviously, don't try it without the right tools, training and mind set, if you're looking for a physical or spiritual experience.sage for rather off topic.
>>27805925By the way, I study with a sikh guy.He doesn't wear a long beard or turban.He says they have a choice in sikhism, it doesn't make him less sikh by not wearing that stuff.
>>27805956He does wear a Kara and maybe those crazy underpants, but I had no chance to observe the latter.Hurhur.
>>27805915Im actually more Hawaiian than Swedish. I had a strange religious upbringing, between my father's traditional kanaka faith and my mother's scandinavian folk religion.
>>27805956Oh yeah, most Sikhs are totally aware of practicality. Most Sikh women follow modern feminine grooming, men who work in the modern workplace will trim beards and hair, kirpans are welded or glued into their scabbards, or have blades made of semiprecious stone like jade.... Hell, i've bummed smokes off of one of the Sikhs at the temple.
>>27805889Actually the Roman Inquisition was more for the Waldensians, Fratricelli, and Flagellants rather than the Templars.
>>27805956It's specific to the Khalsa order, so it is a choice. But not being in the Khalsa means he doesn't get the Singh title.
>>27805992Well, thats a bit shitty.I think studying IT to develope better inventory/administrative siftware is cool and makes you a programmer.But studying IT as a khalsa makes you a computer warrior I guess.I'd rather fight the code to compliance.
>>27796758Also with regards to the hating muslims thing, always carry some ham. To slap muslims with.
>>27805956I'd imagine that due to the initial tenets of Sikhism, blindly following "lel don't cut my hair that'll make me a good Sikh" doesn't happen as much as "lel don't eat pork and wear a veil that makes me a good Muslim" or "lel don't eat meat and that makes me a good vegan*". To be fair, nearly all religions with some prescribed "thing" they must do have circumstances in which they don't have to. Unfortunately, I think lots of people obsess over those really easy "things" they are supposed to do and disregard the general message of the religion. Perhaps these "things" become something more cultural than religious, but if that's the case you still don't HAVE to do it, you're just being obstinate and obtuse.*A lot of Veganism is about the wellbeing of animals and the environment. Your own "personal purity" with regards to meat consumption doesn't mean jack-shit, the only way your choice of diet can help is by repeatedly making vegan choices when they are available over a long period of time. If you have no choice on the matter, it's perfectly okay to eat meat.
>live walking distance fromlargest Sikh temple in US>never been anywhere closeMaybe I should drop by and check it out
>>27806078>I think lots of people obsess over those really easy "things" they are supposed to do and disregard the general message of the religion.I find that to be very true.For example (in christian terms) "going to church on sundays" vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtueswhat essentially boils down to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
>>27797260Eh, not convinced by such demonstrations.
>>27797260>the best dress-code>>27806204>not convinced by such demonstrationsare you talking about the swordplay or the fashion?At least they are keeping the martial art alive. All midevial european martial arts died as the weapons became obsolete.Which is a shame. There were even some martial arts surrounding stick fighting, which is universally useful. All gone today. Sure there are people who try to reverse engineer them from illustrated descriptions and such, but that's not the same as learning it from an actual practitioner.
>>27796671revert from a Sikh family here. they're not just monotheistic, they're boringly, solipsistically entactotheologic teacher worshipers. their only god is their guru's anthropomorphised ideas of good, nature, and humanity.
>>27802619I'm wondering how a real sikh from back in the day would fair against all the variants of armored men and knights from europe.How would a formation zweihander wielding doppelsoldner do against a formation of sikhs?>these would be non-shitty doppelsoldners and would have secondary weapons they would have actually used
>>27806408>armored men and knights>>27806408>zweihander wielding doppelsoldnerthese are different things though. the latter was actually only used to break up ranks of pikemen.but my guess would be similar to european knights vs. muslim defenders during the crusades.
>>27804693Like how many Mormons who lose their faith stick around cos the community involvement is something they can't do without
>>27806408Those crappy jungle slashers would bounce right off real plate armor.
>>27806500I realize they are different things, I didn't mean to phrase it to sound like one setting.I want to know what would happen in both situations. Also battle formations and one on one duels.
>>27806549>Those crappy jungle slashers>real plate armor.>India>Sikhs
>>27806500>latter was actually only used to break up ranks of pikemenActually that is only alleged and the zweihander is attributed to regular fighting as well, they were still frontline (probably fighting pike) irregardless.
>>27804335Partly the whole thing was this :Hindus losing to beard wearing turban wearing meat eating MuslimsSo a bunch if the warrior caste particular to Punjab (Kshatriyas tend to stick to villages to this day and are often the worst for oppressing low caste and Muslims and often form most of the communal murdering mobs) were allowed to copy those Muslims in formOf course by the time they formed their own community they were willing to become mercenariesAlso 19th cent Hindu nationalism didn't have time for them so they've become dissociated from Hinduism Also Sikhs are the highest per population community to commit 'honour crimes'
On the subject of religion and rpgs.What sort of class would an Aghori be?They're hermitic ascetic shaivites who are often claimed to have amazing healing powers, and believe in extreme nondualism. In that they believe in reaching enlightenment by rejecting the idea that certain acts are impure or pure.So they dwell in graveyards, make tools out of human bones, and other taboo acts including the eating of the dead.In fact, the grey dust on his skin? May actually be human ashes.
>>27805978>scandinavian folk religionIs your mother actually from Sweden, or American of Swedish descent?
>>27803980Interesting As a non American the way Americans approach their flag and also the whole constitution and arguing over the real intents of their founding fathers with some saying the pilgrim fathers are more important because they want to push institutionalised Christianity
>>27806627Cleric with Necromancy and Healing domains?
>>27806627Some kind of necromancers, but specializing in healing rather than harming. Not sure if that's possible in DnD, though.
>>27805521Suit and a knife. That's a badass combination.
>>27806662>Habib prepares to finish the fuck out of the Jackson account
>>27797240They are considered a part of the warrior caste to Hindus, so while their religion prohibit castes, native Punjabis often take part in the discrimination anyway for their own benefit or because of norms.It's sad but true. Hell, my ex-soldier teacher in Gymnasium told us that his Sikh friends refused to walk on the same side of the street as Hajii, the caste-less.
>>27806684>im sorry sir, that interest rate simply wont cut it.
>>27806718Normally stabbing a child in the face would be a great sin, but I'm sure god makes an exception if it's Carlos.
>>27804335>It is a natural part of your body and if you were supposed to cut it off, we wouldn't have it.Look at nails. They are a part of the body, but they outgrow too much and start getting in the way until something breaks them.Animals don't have much of that problem because constant use shears them off bit by bit, they also scrape them on trees and shit to keep sharp. We however are left with useless soft nails after we have outgrown the need to kill shit with them. Trimming them is fully natural.Overly long hair gets in the way just the same and cutting it isn't any less natural.
>>27796643Sikhs are against blind faith, its not a virtue for a Sikh to follow god simply because he was told to do so.
>>27796946Most campaigns are set in one region, no reason your hero couldn't have a family in the central city who he visits during down time.
>>27797016Judaism has been prosletysing at various points in its history, Sikhs actively discourage conversion because all religions are equally "true" to them.
>>27806802Hair you can set up in a topknot or turban. Nails you can't.
>>27797566I'm not sure about Lawful Good. Sikhs are forbidden to follow all religious ceremonies, including the lawful assemblies of the city or state. NG maybe?
>>27805805>Sikh GurkhasJesus christ how horrible
>>27806972Law is not required to be religious. Religion is not required to be lawful.
>>27806977Yo dawg, I heard you liked getting your throat cut buy an Asian close combat expert with balls the size of a moon...Also this is why I play Brits in mid-war games of FoW. Since when you're fielding both Gurkha and Sikhs at the same time, you've already won the war of bad-ass, even if you lose the battle.
>>27806972Does being Lawful require you to follow ALL laws, even those that contradict with your own code and rules? Because that seems absolutely impossible.A cleric can be lawful without observing the rules of other gods than his own, I think this is the same thing more or less.
>>27805956Indeed, extremism is often found among people who believe their way of life is somehow threatened. The Afghans didn't go crazy until the Commies rolled in.I remember a Pakistani-born and raised guy on radio, who had been harassed by Swedish-born Muslims because he wore earnings while praying, thus the prayer "didn't count".
>>27798656>>27798335Ultimate anti-religion meal: Steak with bacon and shrimp in a rich beer sauce. Washed down with a hotdog bun.
>>27798787Happens a lot apparently, they eat semi-fermented fruit and get all angry-drunk.
>>27799836Indira did a lot of controlled opposition to give herself the excuse to get unlimited power so she could force through crap she thought would improve India eg enforced sterilisation She set up Tamil Tigers in India and sent them to Sri Lanka to create an emergency so India could take over the island and so create Indian empire
>>27807031I think this one was fed alcohol on purpose though, to make it fiercer and less scared.
>>27796643From what little i know it was most likely both a way to differentiate itself from nearby religions but also because the religion encourages you to think and contemplate the faith on your own.
>>27803034That doesn't seem at all likely. Even the earliest farmers ate meat, and ofc before they started farming they were hunters. Vegetarianism has always been a specifically moral or religious tenant, look at the teachings of Pythagoras for example.
>>27803034> the early pastoral humans, which is the first agricultural humans, who are the cause for civilizations were predominantly vegetarianAnthropologist here.You're full of shit.
>>27799308>Swaddle infantsSikhs confirmed for best Paladins
>>27797570Not to sound all white man's guilt or whatever, but we fucked up a LOT of the world. Hardly deniable even though there were definitely some benefits too.
>>27806716HajiMeans Muslim who has gone on pilgrimageLot of Sikhs did awful stuff to innocents in wars between India and Pakistan As a 2nd generation immigrant I've heard first hand stuff about the crap they did
>>27797073It's quite easy to fluff.Intoxication works differently to Dwarves. Instead of getting addled, perhaps it gives them more clarity?Gold is valued for it's lasting strength, not value as currency.
>>27797797Cutting my hair is the tenant I got hung up on (that and the material possessions)
>>27798656>Eating meat is frowned uponOnly if it's halal or kosher etc.
>>27797990This guy is literally the coolest Paladin ever
>>27798335>Drinks beer to annoy Sikh>Sikh doesn't give a single fuck
>>27803986Just so you know.sikhs can cut their hair. I know many sikh friends who do so.Many choose not to to uphold tradition. It's not a ritual it's a tradition.There is no special reason why they don't cut their hair, they just like following traditions.
>>27804257It seems you cannot tell the difference between a ritual and a tradition.
>>27806549Are you implying the Sikhs would keep using their weapon that doesn't harm plate armor?They'd ambush a marching european army and steal their weapons instead.
>>27805707>>then why did we invent universityes and the scientific method and educated the whole of south America through Jesuit missions regardless of Spain's and Portugal's opposition?>>....Fuck off Brother Eliphas. We're trying to be spooky and bigoted in a humorous way because our dialogue is being written by a smartass protestant american kid.>>ROME IS THE WHORE OF BABALON! THE SEVEN HILLS ARE THE BEASTS SEVEN HEADS! THE WHORE IS THE VATICAN THAT MOUNTS IT!>>No brother! No exposition!
>>27807251Protestants and Muslims do that.
More interesting religions from around the world.The Yazidi.A kurdish faith, mostly found in Iraq. They have the same issues of a lot of small isolated faiths. Refusal to marry outside the faithful, honour killings of those who wish to convert to other religions. But one of the interesting things about them is Melek Taus.Melek Taus, or the Peacock Angel, is the leader of the Heptad of divine emanations placed to care for the world by God.This causes a bit of a problem with their neighbours, as Melek Taus is identified with Satan by christians and muslims.He even refused to bow before Adam, unlike the other angels, although according to the Yazidi, God praised him for doing so, and placed him in charge of the others. (They claim it was a test, since if God had truely wanted Melek Taus to bow, there would have not even been a choice.)These seven emanations are furthermore claimed to reincarnate in human form every age (of which there have been six, and one which is to come). People who are said to have been these reincarnations include Jesus, Ali, and the founder of the Yazidi, Shaykh ‘Adī ibn Musāfir al-Umawī who is said to have been the reincarnation of Melek Taus.
>>27806972They wouldn't be participating in the rituals, not attacking people who did, thus they would be following their spiritual code while not breaking any laws.If the ritual is required in that area, find some work around or do not stay long enough in that area to have to follow the ritual, unless of course it is evil then you take your sword and go to town on the practitioners.
IIRC the whole shebang that went down with the massacre of the Sikhs and the retaliative assassination of Indira Gandhi was because Pakistan was buttmad about India fostering and bringing about the independence movement in Bangladesh (which used to be East Pakistan), so Pakistan retaliated by setting up an independence movement in India (a separate Rajput and Sikh state, forgot the proposed name)Quick reminder that muslings did it.
>>27807376Yazidis, much like their name which they took from the Caliph Yazid, are closer to Islam than they'd want to admit. Especially with their penchant for honour-killing their girls.Some people like to romanticize them as "last remaining Gnostics", but fail to see that Gnosticism teaches that the demiurge is a bad thing. Shit, if anything the Gnostics would have considered the Yazidis the most honest and straightforward of false-believers.
>>27806999>Sikhs and Gurkhas.Why not just smash the table while you're at it?
>>27807420They're nothing to do with the Gnosticism, If anything Gnosticism is even weirder, given its demonizing of the demiurge of platonic and neoplatonic beliefs.
>>27807420Though judging by what we actually know they seem closer to a Muslim-Zoroastrian crossbreed with a dash of Christianity thrown in.
>>27807448I've heard people (mostly esotericists) being like "the Yazidis are the last Gnostics" just because they believe in essentially a demiurge.They don't make the observation that the Yazidis worship them while the Gnostics said "everyone but us worships the demiurge (and that's a Bad Thing)"
>>27797004The Battle of Saraghari, 12 September 1897 - 21 Sikh soldiers against 10,000 Afghan tribesmenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi
>>27807457Esotericists believe the craziest junk anyway. They're what happen when you don't teach formal and mathematical logic in school anymore.
>>27807457Hah, yeah, that's a mistake and a half.By that standard, Jehovah's Witnesses would also be Gnostics.
>>27807657And mormons, somewhat
There's a small group of Sikhs here in Louisiana (I live about 80 miles north of New Orleans) who have decided that the legal ban on carried knives in public is too harsh, and opted to replace the ceremonial knives/swords with handguns, arguing that it still maintains the spirit of the 'be prepared to defend the innocent at all times' rule, just with a modern weapon.They're pretty cool guys to hang around, too. If it wasn't for the belief in a god and the no-cutting-hair rule, I'd totally consider joining them. They are some of the least-pushy religious types I've ever met.
>>27807125When you consider the symbolism of it, definitely. The turban is 'the crown of spirituality'. Which means Sikhs are symbolically giving up their crown and claim to holiness to help others.
>>27807729That's America all over."It's our religious duty to carry a small knife with us at all times.""That's too dangerous""How about a gun?""Go nuts"
>>27805522Thanks, anon.Have fun!
>>27807789You can't do a ballistics test on a knife. There are no databases of knives with unique striation patterns and their licensed owners. There's no waiting period on purchasing a knife. Gun ownership assumes you've already been through the whole registration and vetting process, so while it's not safer, every gun owner knows that they can't get stupid with their gun. Knives, not so much.
>>27805228The Cilice - usually associated with Opus Deus( lots of publicity recently courtsey of Dan Brown and the Davinci Code) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1308090/Why-does-Opus-Dei-member-Sarah-Cassidy-attach-cilice-leg-day.html
Manvir Singh for greatest paladin?
>>27807141Wouldn't a Muslim be caste-less since they don't buy into the Hindu reincarnation thing?
>>27796127Why would you want to be a kebab eating dog when you could be a righteous crusader for the one true lord?
>>27808664You can find out by reading the thread.
>>27806627that's the coolest necromancer concept ever
>>27805978what, is your mother a time traveler from the year 800?
>>27807135ey, fuck yous. my ancestors only fucked up england, ireland and various other raiding spots in europe
>>27808308ExactlyIt's a term to refer to any MuslimLike how Spanish call any non white non spaniels Turks
>>27807397BullshitIndira set up Sikh nationalism as controlled opposition
>>27809305It's "Moro", not Turk. And with that we call all the muslims. The East asians are all "chinos" to us.
>>27809082The actual sect is amazing to see in action. Here's a video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blYbrKwXVs4 (A scene of animal slaughter, and some nudity, albeit with genitals blurred)Another interesting thing? They regularly get drunk and smoke opiates as well. On the other hand, they never see their families again.
>>27806635What country do you live in? Arguing over the intents of the founding fathers is actually pretty reasonable, as those intents were what were written into the Constitution, the cornerstone of the formation of American government. It's the most important document in American law.It's not like we argue over the intent of the Declaration of Independence. That's a symbolically important document and not much else.
>>27807153>Intoxication works differently to Dwarves. Instead of getting addled, perhaps it gives them more clarity?> A dwarf who acts logical and focused because he's drinking.People play dwarves because it lets them be drunken assholes.
>>27809819I have to admit, all the cannibalism, drug use and eating of fecal matter aside, I'm most interested in why the one guy rolled his penis around a stick in the middle of a crowd.Seriously. That's new.