Oh gosh it's that time again.
Time to get stabbed in the back by kingfisher! We should thank leslie for his work and get him out of the area quickly. Also, try to get the heart coordinates out of mage without giving them to kingfisher accidentally. Lizard language might be a solution.

You let Kingfisher and his two flunkies leave before exiting the courthouse with Leslie.

"We should probably send the kid back with the Freed to Shadow Company." Peri says.

"We should try to send back everyone." Lea says.

"That'll tip off Citadel and they'll send the Headmaster Paladin after us, and there's no way it won't be pulling out all the stops to get us after the last time." Mage says.

"Alright. Good point." Lea says with a sigh. "So, where is the Heart?"

"It's in the Silver City version of Citadel." Mage says. "A perfect city, clean, shining, orderly, beautiful, and no messy people to screw it up."

"Alright, where in the Silver City then?" Tricia asks as you all head back to the Bakery, Leslie in tow.

"Castle Newgate." Mage says. "Bit of a cliche, but I suppose that this IS Citadel we're talking about."

"Ugh," Mari groans. "That place is huge. It's a damn mountain. How are we supposed to find anything in there?"

"If the heart is sentient, and as cliche as we think it is, then I would be the Throne Room." Lea says.

"There's three. The Sun Throne, the Star Throne, and the Throne of Light." Mari says.

"Which one is the most gaudy?" mage asks.

"Ugh, I wish Isen was here. He'd know." Peri says.

"More importantly," Tricia says. "How are we getting to the Silver City? The Freed say that version of Citadel is almost impossible to reach once you leave it."

"I have a suspicion." Mage says. "But it's a gamble...and it puts Shadow Company at risk too."

Echo's description of Kingfisher's plan, obviously meta knowledge:

>Kingfisher doesn't want immortality, and he doesn't want perfection. He wants immortality for the empire, and he wants there to be actual karma, or justice in the world. Where when a brilliant child who can help people, or has artistic vision, is born to a poor/abusive/misogynistic family...and this INCLUDES monsters, thanks to your efforts, then the world will correct itself, and the child will be placed in a loving home with opportunities. The people that hate, or are -ists of any time will grow sick and die, and that good things will happen to good people. He doesn't want a shiny-happy Citadel version of the world.

It's probably a good idea to start coming up with ways to poke holes in his logic. I for one think a small reward for good actions is okay, as well as human/non-human marriages not being so one sided.

It's time to start tying up loose ends.

>>27010625
"Lay it on me, I'm feeling like a good gamble. Though, risking people other than myself makes it less fun."
>>27010632
My problem with it is simple. We might be wrong. Therefore, the most we should do is try to convince the "bad" people otherwise, and perhaps come to blows with them if they come to blows with us. Also, the whole uses-citadel-souls thing.

oh, and my bet's on it being in the light throne.
Or a point equidistant from all three thrones.
Am I allowed two bets?

>>27010745
Oh, I agree with the no punishing bad people thing. I even have a possible way to convince Kingfisher why having some overbearing cosmic judge, jury, and executioner is a terrible idea.

I won't go into the details, but here's the basics: we ask him a few hypothetical moral dilemmias that happen to be basic descriptions of either the origins of the members of our party (i.e. "If a man came into someone's home, killed a family, and took a child, what would you do?") or various sins our party has committed, likely edited so as to avoid the whole confession thing. We say nothing about his answers until the end or when he figures it out.

On that note, I have to ask something: what was Mage's relationship with his sister? There was a story there, but I forgot it.

"Lay it on me, I'm feeling like a good gamble. Though, risking people other than myself makes it less fun." You say.

"We make a push. THE push." Mage says. "Shadow Company and the Freed push to take Castle Newgate."

"Which one?"

"I don't think it'll matter." Mage says. "The big buildings here, even in War, are intact for a reason. If one breaks in one level, weird things happen in another. I mean, we could try for another building like the Cathedral or the Market Square, but the Castle is the best bet for an immediate reaction."

"Yeah, they'll throw tons of Workers and Paladin-Things at Shadow Company." Tricia says. "That the goal?"

"Yeah." Mage says. "We force Citadel to push back, and I believe that'll make it possible for me to fry a gateway to the Silver City. Then we're inside the Castle as well, which will hopefully be empty. We get to the heart, seal it, and then we can use the seal to make the Dome go away, return all the people to reality, and put all the souls at rest."

"But Shadow Company will get absolutely hammered." Peri says.

"Like I said, big gamble." Mage says. "It's that or we creep around in this messed up time-sink for ages trying to get to the Silver City before Kingfisher does, Citadel gets us, or we go nuts."

>>27010854
mage and her were forced to do dirty things at knifepoint in ghoul society, mage escaped she didn't, she got all bitter and ghoul-y because of it, after battle she was shipped off to a corrective home for ghoul victims, mage went and visited her in his own time and they're talking again, even if it's a bit rocky. Also she's eating salads now.
That's the most of it. We kept our nose out of it kind of, because it was mage's deal and he hasn't asked for help.
oh, also, we should tell the others that we don't want to send too many people back to shadow company, as they are bound to be hit by retributive strikes sooner or later, if we're not fast enough on the heart thing.

>>27010911
"I wasn't informed we were sane."

>>27010911
"Well, shadow company is bound to be hit sooner or later. They're no longer in their citadel-assigned spot, and that's bound to draw attention once citadel reclaims its' past. They really don't deserve to take the bulk of it alone, however. Think we can find any other people to help out in the attack? Those white-paladin guys might still exist and not be against us. Or maybe some way of dumping the whole of war on the castle's doorstep. Doesn't really matter if it's in one plane or not, as long as we get enough rabble rousers causing trouble at the castle."

>>27010911
As much as I'd like to take the fast route, it's not the moral route.

"Shadow Company has suffered enough in War. We can't treat them like fodder. What we can do is use them as our eyes and ears. War has made them into an elite group of insurgents and we shall have them spread throughout the levels of Citadel searching for a weak point and creating diversions that will make things more difficult for the PE nobles to remain a viable threat.

While that chaos is going on and Citadel is facing rebellion in 9 different directions, we'll sneak in or fight our way in."

"I wasn't informed we were sane." You say.

"Har, har." Mage says as he looks around the corner near the bakery. "You know what I mean...okay, looks clear. No pies in sight."

You all carefully walk out into the street, preparing yourself for any sudden attacks of filled-pastries.

"Well, Shadow Company is bound to be hit sooner or later. They're no longer in their citadel-assigned spot, and that's bound to draw attention once Citadel reclaims its Past. They really don't deserve to take the bulk of it alone, however. Shadow Company has suffered enough in War. We can't treat them like fodder." You say.

"Okay, any other ideas, then?" Tricia asks.

"Well, what we can do is use them as our eyes and ears. War has made them into an elite group of insurgents and we shall have them spread throughout the levels of Citadel searching for a weak point and creating diversions that will make things more difficult for the Empire nobles to remain a viable threat.

"While that chaos is going on and Citadel is facing rebellion in 9 different directions, we'll sneak in or fight our way in." You say.

"Problem with that is while it weakens Citadel, it doesn't give us any way to break into the Silver City." Mage says. "Magic Babble aside, it's not just disrupting Citadel's functions, but having it move a LOT of energy into ONE specific spot."

"Alright, think we can find any other people to help out in the attack, then? Those white-paladin guys might still exist and not be against us. Or maybe some way of dumping the whole of war on the castle's doorstep. Doesn't really matter if it's in one plane or not, as long as we get enough rabble rousers causing trouble at the castle." You say.

"Well have to ask Janos about them." Lea says.

You get inside the Bakery with little issue. Mage starts to use his staff to inscribe on the wall, calling for the Freed to give you an extraction.

Roll 1d20

>>27010854
I dunno, a universal karma system would be awesome, assuming the kinks were worked out. Maybe only apply it to actions which cause another individual to suffer?

No, wait, better idea. Link everyone up, so that inflicting any negative emotions on another causes you to feel that emotion as well. BAM, perfect, empathic society with no mind control, no cosmic judgement, no instrumentality.

Rolled 13

>>27011224
If we manage to leave without those 2 not-children showing up and causing a riot situation involving meat pies and rides, I am calling this one good.

>>27011282
nah, too intrusive and unnatural. And sometimes people need to feel bad, calm down, and re-evaluate. S'quite helpful.

>>27011282
I think empathatic society goes a little too far, but I had a similar thought: when someone does a bad action, he gains an "air about him." Other people know something's up. They don't know what and they don't immediately get the urge to hang him, but they know. Little tingling sensation at the back of their brain.

What Kingfisher is trying to do is punish corruption with his system, not necessarily cause everyone to be nice to one another, though that's a good indirect effect.

Rolled 9

>>27011224
one more from me, since the other guy seems to not want to roll.

Rolled 16

>>27011224
Rollan

Kingfisher's plan sounds great, but has not nearly enough peer reviewed research for wide ranging changes of such theoretical permanency.

Rolled 3

>>27011224

>>27011392
Not a pie or tart or even a cream puff to be seen.

Ryan, in his distinctive red headband arrives through the wall.

Leslie lets you a scream and hides behind Lea.

- Have new person? Can't see too well. - His note says.

>>27011324
But that would still happen. Things can still go wrong, and people would still get sad, but nobody would ever want to intentionally hurt somebody else.

>>27011351
That's basically the same thing, except with more incentive to be neutral. Neutral is okay, I guess, but still.

It's mostly hypothetical anyway, since doing any of this would mean using Citadel, and leaving everyone trapped inside it. And that isn't happening.

>>27011548
I don't think that's the case. It doesn't use souls or anything.

>>27011537
"Calm down Leslie, he's a friend."

>>27011537
"Good to see you Ryan, lemme check.
Leslie, we're headed to one of the other citadels that we managed to get taken off of the system. Would you like to tag along? "

We really don't need to take him any further, as long as he's gotten away from kingfisher's folks. It's up to him now.

>>27011537
"Leslie, this is Ryan. He's all about fairness."

"Ryan, meet Leslie, master of Lorem Ipsum and Squid Pro Quo."

>>27011573
Really? If that is the case, then I think we should seriously consider the absolute empathy option. It would probably satisfy Kingfisher (With a little browbeating), too.

>>27011537
"Leslie, it's okay. If you've seen one of his kind before, don't worry. He's one of a few who've been freed of the bad magic that's been plaguing Citadel."

>>27011573
>>27011619
kingfisher said his plan doesn't harm the occupants, but that could be a lie. Or he could be misinformed.

And I really don't like absolute empathy. It would just be so unpleasant to live with on a day to day basis, I would hate to inflict it on folk.

>>27011619
Well, we should consider doing something with Citadel's magic if there is a way for it to be done cleanly.

Empathy is one thing, but I really, really want to solve the slow genetic erosion of non-humans. Please. We are all bothered by it and not doing something is stupid.

>>27011649
The plan's description comes straight from Echo. And Kingfisher was adamant he wouldn't lie to us about the plan.

>>27011698
the plan's description, sure, but his assurances that it won't harm the residents are from him IC. I'd like a panel of mages to verify that please and thank you.

"Calm down Leslie, he's a friend. His name is Ryan. He's been freed from the bad magic controlling the other people who look like them. He's all about fairness. Ryan, meet Leslie, master of Lorem Ipsum and Squid Pro Quo." You say.

Tricia groans.

"Anyway, Leslie we're trying to get to a safer place. Would you like to tag along?" You ask.

Leslie nods. "Yeah. Okay...I'm ready."

- Ready to go? - Ryan writes. - We're starting to see some resistance in Past. Workers scouting us. Attacks starting.-

My night to cook dinner, so after these messages, we'll be right back.

>>27011698
Still, though. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I wouldn't even trust us to make the right decision in regards to using Citadel's magic.

The only responsible decision is to destroy it.

>attacks starting

Welp.

>>27011763
I'm half expecting echo to put dragon to the forefront when we start to get close to the heart.

>>27011733
oh, that's fine echo. Make a good dinner. My favorite's beef stew myself.
also,
"Damn, that's a lot faster than I thought. I was hoping we'd at least have a day or two of smooth sailing for them."

File: 1378255510215.png-(22 KB, 170x170, 1362377051985.png)

22 KB PNG

>>27011763
It's just this once and the only thing it changes is something that is unfair and unjust.

We just have a 50% chance that a child from human/non-human parents is born human and a 50% chance that the child is born non-human. That's it. No cosmic judge, no permanent guise. Just a coin flip to determine species.

>>27011797
>>27011763
I don't trust us with it, I don't trust kingfisher with it, I don't trust double-ghandi with it.

It's fine to put laws and morals like this to paper, to be enforced by people, because they can change it when something we cannot forsee happens. It's not fine to set them into reality, because that might cause terrible problems in the future long after we're dead.

Like perhaps a sorrow transmitted zombie plague. Just spitballing here.

>>27011649
It'd only be unpleasant to live with if you are actively and intentionally harming other individuals, because you feel what they feel, wheras if you are trying your best to help people then you either feel nothing, or you get happy because you made somebody else happy. After a few generations, society has become an inherently altruistic thing wherein nobody would even dream of screwing somebody else over for their own gain, creating an exponential tide of generally excellent people.

>>27011867
Well, really it'd be unpleasant for anybody who made a costly mistake. Which we ourselves have done.

Rewarding good people I don't have a problem with. Maybe bad actions would simply erase an appropriate amount of good karma rather than add bad karma.

>>27011867
I don't know about you, but keeping people out of my head is one of my top concerns. This would just make things a nightmare, even if it gave me positive feelings all the time.

>>27011857
>sorrow transmitted zombie plague

"Oh my poor mother, a zombie!"
"My sister and only nephew, zombies!"

Fuck, that's virulent.

>>27011851
That's pretty much the exact sort of logic which likely birthed the Dragon who was of Shadow.

If your reasoning is only valid in one particular case, then it is not valid reasoning. That's why doing the right thing is so hard.

>>27011851
I'm extremely tempted to do this, but it might cause all sorts of havoc with fantasy genetics, since it's like this for a reason, however unfair. It would probably dick around with recessive/dominant genes at the least.

Also, I'm working on a theory that involves the four ancient beast-types having some inherent magic in them, which is somehow a finite thing, which prevents it from breeding quite true.

File: 1378256128646.jpg-(23 KB, 471x257, picture_3.jpg)

23 KB JPG

>>27011995
>That's pretty much the exact sort of logic which likely birthed the Dragon who was of Shadow

No, the Dragon of Shadow was born out of a desire for order driven by fear.

My plan fixes a genetic problem. It doesn't attempt to fix a social problem.

>>27011958
exactly. The universal empathy thing has all sorts of potential unforseen problems. Like a genetically defective mega-rager that causes whole cities to fall into riot.

>>27011893
>>27011904
Ah, that's my bad for not explaining properly. The empathy would only work regarding intent. If you intend to do good and fail, you feel nothing. If you intend to good and succeed, you feel good. Works exactly the same for malicious intent.

>>27012004
It's like this because the human species is itself a dominant gene.

>>27012060
still don't like it. It's the equivalent of inserting direct nervous stimulation pleasure/displeasure nodes into people's brains and firing them at programmed times.

Basically, what I'm saying is the things you are advocating sound like some kind of sci-fi hell to me.

>>27012069
and what would happen to them if we "fix" that? According to the wording of our wish nothing, sure, but according to genetics? God knows.
Alternatively, it trips a bunch of unwanted dominant genes in monstrous folks, and who knows what those do.

>>27011867
Citadel is a prime example of how this sort of idea can be perverted and misused. The only safe thing is to destroy it and free the trapped souls.

>>27012060
And how will we precisely define doing 'good' and doing 'evil'? And how are we going to ensure that our new deity doesn't become some twisted horror over time like every single other one has?

Bro, just let people live. It's the only way.

>>27012100
I guess.

I just think that some universal deterrent towards being a dick would be a nice thing to exist.

>>27012128
>I disagree because of wild speculation that has no evidence

The only way anything like that would happen is if we explicitly made it so that non-humans reverted to what they were like before human genetic pollution, which is not what I want at all.

For example: a human has a child with an elf. Right now that gets you a half-elf, which takes more generations than normal to get back to a full elf.

What I want: the child is either a full human or an elf like it's elf parent. That's it. No bringing back old dormant genes.

>>27012177
It's a nice idea, but "universal" is a thing that you REALLY shouldn't mess with if you can help it, in my opinion. the good/bad people thing can be shifted radically with small changes in local environment.

Also: Entropy. We've not even gotten into that. Kingfisher wants to do away with it, but I am not seeing how his plan would do that.
>>27012167
yeah, I'm not even sure WE have correct definitions of good/evil. I'd hate to force the world to agree with us, we're nuts. Kingfisher too.

>>27012207
yeah, I know that's what you want, and it's quite tempting.
But I feel some wild speculation on fantasy genetics and its interaction with magic is affordable, since biochemical and genetic changes are a pretty big deal when done wrong. I think the foremost expert on the field is probably mage at this point, maybe nakai. All the ones who knew what they were doing died.

>>27012177
That exists though. It's the tendency for a population to repair itself subtly after the existence of an asshole. After a prick dies, everything he accomplished slowly heals and he is utterly forgotten. Natural damnatio memoriae.

When good people pass, they leave behind the good deeds they've done over their lives which, in turn, blossom out causatively across time as an indelible record of all they contributed to the world. Just look at the record of Dad's life.

Things don't need to be fucked with. People just need to live.

>>27012248
You're right, Mage might now more but >>27012128 shouldn't dismiss it out of hand just because it might do something that's completely unconfirmed.

>>27012263
both of those are me, I'm kind of getting into the discussion a bit much. Just... trying to put some caution against the plan. I really don't like the idea of altering people on a wide basis without even testing it first.
>>27012260
there's some merit to this, but I do insist on as accurate histories as we can manage, minimizing defamation of villains and exaltation of heroes. Because, you know, the truth and remembering history.

>>27011649
I'm pretty sure he said his plan doesn't kill the LIVING in Citadel. Don't believe he said anything about the souls of the dead.

He was in the courtroom when he said it, so we can at least believe him about the living.

>>27012329
I'm fine with caution. That's a fair point about the lack of testing.

>>27012222
Alright, how about something that makes you feel bad if you harm another being with full knowledge of what you are doing?

I can't see any downside to that, really. The only people it punishes are people who actually want to cause suffering, and makes war obsolete. It does nothing for people who are simply misguided, so evil still happens, but it cannot actually do anything that isn't reversible. Even misguided people understand that they are killing something, so war is made obsolete and all issues must be solved by talking things out peacefully or ignoring each other.

>>27012363
The problem is that there are already mechanisms that make feel bad if they harm other people, they just don't always work and can be ignored.

Let's just say there's an insane murderer on the loose. How will people stop him? They have perfect empathy, so they'll feel his suffering. It's just that he deserves it.

>>27012329
Oh I didn't mean that history ought read as a lack of its villains. On the contrary it ought read as a record of what they did, then their death and what the world did to undo his actions, thereby rendering his existence eventually moot.

>>27012418
While I understand where you're coming from, evil men have just as much an effect as great men. Consider the way WW1 reshaped the balance of power throughout the world. An entire century's worth of history was set in motion by one assassin.

>>27012342
we should really find out more about that. Too bad he already got away. We can probably bother him with the whisper flute AT ANY TIME though. It's the phoneline that the other person can't refuse to pick up on.
>>27012358
good. I wish we had time and a controlled environment for testing.
>>27012391
that's not even including all the crazy-ass magical horrors that could be created using loopholes and twisting of the wish. Heck it will probably spring to life like one of those land spirits and start making decisions.

>>27012391
Yeah, I can see the flaw in my premise. The ideal is that the insane murderer cannot exist because nobody *wants* to feel bad, but I had not considered a deranged person who simply doesn't care about feeling bad.

Fair enough, I concede the point.

>>27012464
Kingfisher said he'd talk with us again after the Herons were dealt with.
Which is our next step, by the way.

>>27012448
I'm not saying that original misdeeds will be erased, but that proceeding good deeds will counteract evil ones, rendering them moot. On the other hand, there is nothing the world will seek to repair when good is done for it.

>>27012511
This.

>>27012493
sorry for arguing so thoroughly against it, but you know, good intentions and path to hell and all that. Gotta analyze as best we can any potential magic alterations.

>>27011698
I'm not bothered by it. It's all living, thinking, feeling people giving birth to other living, thinking, feeling people. Why is it so terrible if their shapes trend a certain way over the course of generations? When a human and non-human have a child, is it a tragedy that the child takes after their human parent somewhat more than their non-human parent?

>>27012511
yeah, I figured we'd cut past that step by going straight for the heart. I fully expect them to be there already.

>>27012527
it's a tragedy if all the diverse and interesting people become a samey-samey mix of everything, I think. I may be all for goodness and justice, but somewhere near 3 or 4 on the list is "interesting and fun place to live".

>>27012527
Is it a tragedy? No. It's fair. 50% chance.
We play by the same rules in this very game.

Besides, one child taking after a parent more than the other happens anyway. Happened in my family.

>>27012536
On the trail of it, at least. Kingfisher would be too had it not been for those meddling kids and their stupid courtroom. Which was hilarious.

>>27012523
Indeed, I will go back to the drawing board.

How about a system wherein people who have intentionally harmed people are harmed in the same way? That gets rid of the insane murderer conundrum while retaining the basic spirit of the thing, which is to provide a valid, universal reason to not be a dick.

I dunno, I'm just throwing around ideas here. I fully expect that Kingfisher is misinformed, and that we won't be able to do any of this without harming the souls, which I'm not going to advocate because any person who mutters the phrase 'The ends justify the means' is destined to die a villain.

>>27012589
well, under the proposal it's 50% chance. Currently it's unbalanced a bit.

>>27012613
I'd prefer not to create a moral framework at all with this thing. They should be spread by mortal means, and enforcing one like this would be grossly overstepping our bounds.
And yeah, I think the kingfisher doesn't know about the soul business, or something. Because if it doesn't hurt the people of citadel, and doesn't use the souls... where does the power come from?
>>27012589
I wish we didn't just get the gavel so fast on that one. I wanted a courtroom time.

>>27012614
Yeah, all I really want is for the whole inevitable future of humanity being the only species to be avoided.

Any plan that avoids that and is fair works for me.

>>27012667
oh, I just thought of a problem with the 50/50 thing. It's not a matter of human kids coming out of these couplings, just kids that are more human than other thing. Specifying one race or the other would be a significant alteration from the mixed-race thing we have now. It would basically make it so that one of the parent's genes won't transmit. Possibly even make these races entirely incompatible for kidmaking.
Whatever, just thinking out loud. In text. Imma get some juice.

>>27012667
Change is a frightful and inevitable thing. Trying to resist it just makes us the next Citadel.

Unless, of course, the vanillafication of the species diversity is a result of Citadel, in which case it'll be fixed as a natural consequence of annihilating Citadel's magic.

>>27012564
That's Citadel-think though. Trying to mess with genetics, nature, and how people's kids look in order to maker the world more interesting to us is worryingly similar to how Citadel enforces racial stereotypes.

>>27012746
>>27012740
>ChangeIsOkMind

>>27012740
I hope to God Citadel or the Dragon who was of Shadow is responsible for it. I honestly do.

>>27012746
But right now it's going to turn into some racial struggle in the near future. A terrible bloody race war against humanity, who is genuinely a corrupting force on non-humans.

>>27012746
I don't disagree with citadel about everything, just its' methods.
Also, on a slightly selfish note, I'd like to not go extinct.

>>27012760
"Change is okay" is not a suicide pact. Besides, we'd be changing the situation ourselves.

>>27012654
He could simply consider it an acceptable price. It's entirely possible and consistent with what we know of Kingfisher's methods that he purposely mentioned that the people living in Citadel wouldn't be sacrificed while avoiding mentioning the souls of the dead in order to deceive us. Him being willing to sacrifice them is also consistent with what we know of him.

>>27012776
Change /= corruption

>>27012782
But we wouldn't be extinct. It is not the shape of the flesh we inhabit which defines what we are, but our souls. We are all alike in respect to the only thing that matters, our sentience. Do you really think of Tricia as a different species in a tone which implies that means a damned thing? I don't.

>>27012822
yep, this is precisely what I fear. Soul tax.
>>27012815
yeah, I'd really rather not go extinct. And the methods of doing that are all pretty... extreme. And involve lots of butting into people's romantic lives.

>>27012831
I don't consider Tricia being human a bad thing, but there being no more lamia, naga, lizardfolk, minotaurs, elves, dwarves, harpies, mer, etc a bad thing.

We're all going to end up being neanderthals. And I don't like it.

>>27012831
It doesn't mean much, other than she can't climb trees nearly as well as we can, our love of warm rocks isn't shared, and we've got entirely differing views on taste.
In short, it makes it more interesting.

I like having other ideas and peoples, even (especially) ones that disagree with us inherently.

Immortality is not a smart thing. If any country that existed 100 years ago went unchanged until today, the world would be worse off. 500 years ago, it'd be even worse.

For one man to live forever is a curse (maybe a blessing if you take it in stride). For a whole country to be locked in like that...well...

The United States of Fallout canon is described by the developers as the same US we know, except no cultural development of any kind occured after the 50's. And we know how that turned out.

Change-progress forward, backwards, or maybe side to side if we're dancing-is the way of the universe.

File: 1378259078093.jpg-(225 KB, 1408x828, The_Capitol[1].jpg)

225 KB JPG

>>27012915

Chaptcha ate my pic.

>>27012903
Yeah, but -if- vanillification is the natural course of things, so be it.

We -still- have yet to discover whether or not Citadel is causing it, and I have a suspicion that it is. Let's try to hold off on our convictions until then.

>>27012915
Actually, I have an idea for talking Kingfisher out of it.

Consider old PE. Bunch of bird people, from what we know. Consider modern PE. Consider a future PE.

Which PE is the real one? If you say the current one, then that's denying the legitimacy of the old one which led to the current one. And saying it's the old one denies the current and future.
The truth is that they're all PE, it's just not the one we'd like.

>>27012944
things don't have to go the natural way. We could at least try to fight against it using mortal means.

When it's our time, a whole clutch of lamiakids. And we widely publicize the knowledge of the gene drift.

>>27012944
Fifth, pls go.

>>27013045
Hey, (assuming the vanillification is natural and won't be fixed by Citadel's annihilation) I never said we couldn't rail against it my mortal means. as >>27012996 suggested. I'm just saying that -magically- enforcing anything upon the wills of sentient lifeforms is wrong.

I'm going to hope the commercial break is another 20-30 minutes, because I'm hungry now and want to make food.

File: 1378260143477.png-(353 KB, 496x358, unbenannt3k79d[1].png)

353 KB PNG

>>27012987

Logic bomb. Very nice. Once again our leviathan brain brings us the armor-piercing question.

>>27013176

All in favor of channeling /ck/ and discussing recipes until Echo returns?

>>27013243
>Recipes
Thanks, now I'm imagining Ssen hurrying to hide what was on her computer as Trish enters the room so no one knows she was watching epic meal time as filthy filthy food porn.

Dat meat tho.

Yeah, now I'm hungry too.

File: 1378261043269.png-(231 KB, 500x279, tumblr_lrmk930zqd1r1keh7o(...).png)

231 KB PNG

>>27013354

>implying epic meal time can be concealed
>implying Ssen wouldn't try to recreate some of that insanity
>her sheer size and metabolism makes it a standard meal
>30,000 calorie food all day erry day

With bacon strips.

>>27013354
EAT that pig. Eat it so good.
>>27013243
well, I've got a mean beef stew like I said, but it's mostly vegetables.

Ssen: Just keep getting hungrier the longer you don't have delicious snacks.

>>27013525
>lamia cooking show
>insanely unhealthy food that no human could ever survive eating

>>27013570
>>27013525
let's not forget how several types of poison aren't only harmless to lamia, but actively taste good to them. Like that poison tree sap we keep in our house. We should have brought a travel supply, it's good for baiting, sticking, and spicing!

In short, extremely fatty, meaty, poisonous food. Delicious.

File: 1378261472213.gif-(1.65 MB, 164x172, 1376871127895.gif)

1.65 MB GIF

>>27013597
Shadowrun future needs an extended epilogue. It's just too hilarious.

>>27013645
I must admit, I'd really like to see the far-future results of this shit. While wondering if anyone ever will invent the snake bike.

File: 1378261610090.jpg-(93 KB, 436x340, main-altonbrown_don-chamb(...).jpg)

93 KB JPG

>>27013534

>beef stew that is mostly vegetables

Boy you better have the best stock on the face of this planet or be eating Chef Boyardee, because a beef stew is NOT 'mostly' vegetables.

>>27013597

"Today on 'Ssspices and sssearing", we'll be making a Baker's Omelette. Why is it called that? because it uses 13 eggs, silly! How many did you think there would be?

Now the things about Lamia food, and you should know this by now, are twofold: fat, and spice. Anything that I make has enough fat in it to sear on an iron pan, for that candy-crust exterior. And anything that I make has enough spice in it to send a human to the toilet or the local Cups temple! Shall we?"

And then Alton Brown walks in and shows her how to do it right.

>>27013597
An entire pig stuffed with taylor ham, breaded with a blend of crushed garlic croutons and bacon bits, then deep fried in pork fat an dusted with stricnine licorice.

>>27013693
the stock's made of all the drippings that came from the roast, along with the boiled fat off of the meat. The post-boil fat is removed after cooking, so as to prevent unsightly glubby texture in every few bites.

And yes, the stock is praised by everyone who's had it. The secret is the appropriate balance of onions, garlic, and celery, I find. A few carrots and tomato too.

Also we have to get domesticated ostriches, so we can pick up a dozen super-sized eggs.

>>27013717

Overdoing it. You'd stuff a pig with baked biscuit and almond stuffing, not more meat. Contrast is great flavor.

And I wouldn't fry anything stuffed. That'd make the stuffing too greasy. Best to bread it in an egg-thickened breading (croutons and bacon sounds great though) then smoke it.

>>27013741
>Dripping stock, made almost entirely from reduced fat.

I stand corrected.

File: 1378262137766.gif-(2.8 MB, 254x200, 1367567140571.gif)

2.8 MB GIF

>this thread right now

>>27013800
also, if you put a potato in way early, it acts as a handy thickening agent for the stock. Useful for keeping it from being too watery.

And yeah, frying a stuffed thing is just asking for the oil to come pouring into the cavities and stay there. You want to eat the meat, not a big mouthful of oil. Though, a bit of panfrying might not go amiss, to get that nice crust on it, before you do whatever you do to cook it through. Smoking.

I don't know much about breading though, so you're on your own.

Ryan rigs a door to open to Past, and you all walk through.

"Leslie," Lea asks. "Do you know where your parents might be?"

"They're with His Light." He says without a pause, and with pride. "They were Red Occuli who were killed by Fey Court Terrorists. Heroes."

Peri pauses for a moment. Then keeps walking, when you catch her gaze, she looks a little ashamed but gives you a small shrug, that could mean a lot of things.

"They must be very proud of you, and how brave you've been." Lea says. "We're forming a new group, called the Schola Nitor, we'll need good judges."

"Can I keep the robes and my gave?" He asks.

Lea chuckles. "Of course."

Past is looking less like a storybook version of the First/Second Age, and now is closer to that of an actual military encampment, barricades and breastworks have formed a large perimeter, and you see and hear the sounds of building, smithing, and effort.

Ryan opens up a door in the barricades and lets you all through.

Leslie is guided away with farewells to be with the other children that have been saved.

There's a pleasant surprise for you, Cai and Sun are there with Jonas. They also have two more Phoenix Empire people with him. THat crystal mage girl, Dao, that you remember and an androgynous looking person with one of those reed hats that look like a bowl turned upside down. He's got what looks like a stack of square marble tiles, each about 1 foot square, tied in a bundle, strapped to his back.

"Lady Paladin Ssen." Janos says. "Your friends have been good to their word. As you can see, after their successful trips into Winter, we let them go into War to find their friends."

"Hold on." Mage says. "How much time has passed since we left?"

"Three days here, three weeks in War, we think." Janos says. "How long has it been for you?"

"Three hours...maybe five?" Tricia says.

(cont)

>>27013872
it's been a long day, we've been in a fight, we've constricted dudes, and we've used a lot of poison. Only natural to be a bit hungry. Who knows how many vitamins and minerals poison takes to manufacture.

>>27013243
>not using a screencap with the best answer
really SW?
Really?

File: 1378262227824.jpg-(9 KB, 274x184, kowalski.jpg)

9 KB JPG

>Ssen's cooking assistant.

>>27013873
Breading is a lot like baking, except there's a meat bit in the middle. The breading allows the retention of moisture, so the meat is generally more juicy, even when darkened. If you're not frying, you need a binding agent, which eggs do wonderfully.

>>27013872

And I haven't even started talking pasta.

>>27013892
And now, back to our show!

>>27013892
oh god, time things are happening again.

>>27013921
Oh, please talk pasta. That's what I'm having. Might make it taste better.

>>27013892
"This is a headache." Mari says.

{Paladin Serpent, may I present Dao of the Crystals, and Memai of the Tiles.} Sun says.

{I loathe that title foolishness.} Dao says. {And we've met...and I swear serpent, ONE pun out of you and I will shove a rock SO far up your cloaca that you'll be pis-}

{Dao.} Memai says. {Quiet.}

Dao shuts her mouth but glares at you.

{Dao has a great appreciation for language. Memai is...tacturn.} Sun says.

"They just did introductions." Cai says. "Anyway, we've got some good news. We went into Peace first to see if that was these two morons. Turns out that the Herons were there and...well..." She grins. "You may not need to worry about them too much. Citadel has done a lot of the heavy lifting for us."

>>27013955
"So the Herons have been stonewalled? Or are the stone dead?"

>>27013955
>Dao has a great appreciation for language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den

Technically, it's not puns. It's homophones.

>>27013989
they*

>>27013955
"Please tell me they didn't get eaten by citadel, giving it all sorts of crazy ideas about what it should do with its power. That would just be unpleasant."

Also, apparently dao read up on lamia biology, so kudos to her.

File: 1378262522776.gif-(963 KB, 300x250, 1360127060615.gif)

963 KB GIF

>>27013955
>Peace got them
"Might I ask what web the Citadel weaved?"

>>27013989
So citadel knows how to kill two birds with one stone?

File: 1378262575186.png-(245 KB, 484x351, YOU LITTLE SHIT.png)

245 KB PNG

>>27013989
No. No. That was a terrible one. Respect what other people ask of you. Don't be an annoying cunt.

>>27014026
yes. We pretty much are obligated to at least think of this.

Though, I don't want any crystals anywhere they shouldn't be.

>>27014026
This one is better.

File: 1378262633459.jpg-(15 KB, 300x452, 1359375654315[1].jpg)

15 KB JPG

>>27013989
No, no, give them a break.

>>27013898
I wanted the bit with the 'nature of a man' question. That seemed important, given the context.

>>27013953

You want sauce, noodles, cooking methods? I've experimented. I got Semolina, I got Durum, I got Alfredo, I got Pesto, I got Marinara, i got whatever you need, friend.

>>27014064
Just describe a good pasta dish. That's all I need.

>>27014026
I retract my previous statement, this is better.
>>27014039
>>27014064
No.

>>27014064
If you stick alfredo made with heavy cream in the fridge overnight and stuck sharp enough parmesan and romano in it, it turns into decent dip. It's my secret shame, but my filthy unwashed friends love it on game night

"So citadel knows how to kill two birds with one stone?" You ask.

Cai laughs as everyone else groans. Dao just looks thankful she can't speak Citadel.

"Yeah, getting both of them is a real feather in Citadel's cap. We wont be Heron anything from them any time soon!" Cai says, giggling.

"By His Light, it's infectious. Kill. Me. Now." Mari says.

>>27014137
{Ha, Cai you're a punny gal. We make a good team; birds of a feather, eh?}

>>27013989
no, resist the urge to pun.
save it till after it's over, then pun Dao so hard he can't see straight

>>27014064
>I wanted the bit with the 'nature of a man' question. That seemed important, given the context.
it was, and to be honest i don't remember if the best answer comes after all of those shown.
If so, fair play.

>>27014137
"Come now, you know there's no stopping it. Anyways, on to the plan!"

>>27014169
{Sorry that one was a little weak. I admit I'm kinda winging it here.}

>>27014137
Man, not only have we thought of the equivalent of Freudian psychology, but some weird analogue of Stockholm syndrome, except with puns.

"Seriously, what happened to them? I hope they're not dead, but existing in a temporary state mindless peacefulness is acceptable."

>>27014208
>>27014169
These

File: 1378263038791.jpg-(54 KB, 349x262, tumblr_lmfl8a2BIN1qhov6wo(...).jpg)

54 KB JPG

>>27014077

Fettucini Alfredo, done correctly.

First, identify the correct noodle. You can store-buy, just as long as you check the ingredients list and the first thing on there is 'semolina' or 'durum'. Those are the Italian noodle flours. You want those. If it just says 'flour' then toss it, it'll taste like ramen. And that would be wrong.

Second, cheese. Snag a block of parmesean, and a block of romano. Yes, blocks, not the pre-shredded stuff. It'll be better, trust me.

Third, cream. Get a pint of heavy cream and a tub of cream cheese. This'll be the creamiest, tastiest alfredo stuff you can imagine.

Fourth, veggies. grab a bag of frozen peas. These go suprisingly well with the sauce.

Fifth, meat. What, you thought you could get away from the meat? NOT A CHANCE! Snag a box of fresh-diced prosciutto, or tell the butcher to slice it thin for you and get a couple of ounces.

Now, we cook! Shall I continue?

>>27014137

Put on a slightly worried face for a moment, as if wondering, 'Oh no, what have I done?'

File: 1378263062030.jpg-(19 KB, 500x367, 1372091040214.jpg)

19 KB JPG

>>27014137
>now the student has become the master

Sideways is olev.

>>27014137
Chortle/snicker, because goddamnit Cai.
"Oh don't worry mari, I'm sure you would have caught it by now if it was. Thanks for humoring me though, I love it.
Anyways, I do actually need to hear what happened to them Cai. For the sake of worrying accuracy."

>>27014208
Yeah, hint that Sideways is one upping us.

>>27014216
Careful, don't want to ruffle Dao's feathers. Ask how he learned his art too. I suspect it was a method of tile and error.

>>27014216
we already USED the winging it one last time we taunted them!
No no no!

File: 1378263221575.jpg-(84 KB, 500x376, 1344575083465.jpg)

84 KB JPG

>>27014267

>>27014274
The birds of a feather one too!
No more PE bird puns, we used them all last time we punned at dao!

>>27014227
Oh please, she loves us too much to exceed us.

>>27014274
Don't get snoody with me.

>>27014222
No, you've done enough.

>>27014287
I would love it if she exceeded us. We never really were very good, anyway.

>>27014318
Punstorm was ART

"Come now, you know there's no stopping it." You say. "But seriously, what's happened to them? I hope they're not dead, but existing in a temporary state mindless peacefulness is acceptable."

Cai nods. "Old Man Heron is sitting on a golden throne, master of all that he sees, perfectly content. His kingdom is quiet, and all bow before him. He has no wants or needs that are not seen to. He is content." She grins. "At least, that's what HE thinks. He's really just sitting on a chair with a dopey smile on his face."

{That's what most of what Peace was. People sitting in chairs, or lying in beds, content and without care. It was...very very difficult to leave.} Sun says.

{Why did you?} You ask.

{Because I have a promise to my daughter.} Sun says.

"Alright, that's one thing out of the way then, on to the plan!" You say.

"You have a plan?" Janos asks.

"Kinda." Mage says. "It's not the best plan, but it's a plan that could get us all out of here."

"So you've located the heart?" Janos asks.

>>27014287
Maybe, just maybe, love can plume between enemies after all.

>>27014371
Don't be so gullible.

>>27014301

Fair enough. You really just toss it all in a pan and try not to burn anything. Since alfredo is a suspension the ingredients are more important than the main event.

>>27014371
That post makes me want to smack heads with my cast iron saucepan.

>>27014388

Oh not you too

>>27014342
"Mostly. We think it's in the castle. Or, in an alternate citadel accessed by the castle? Hm. Anyway, the plan involves causing enough havoc in one point at the entry to the castle that we can snap open a gate to the appropriate plane, which is apparently almost impossible to get into normally. As it stands, that would mean your people, fighting. I'm really hoping you know of any leads on other groups that could help us with that, since you people really don't deserve to go this one on your own."

File: 1378263754902.png-(151 KB, 278x411, 1372392018642.png)

151 KB PNG

>>27014342
"Yes. But it's well defended. Perhaps too well defended."

Look them all sadly.

"I don't want to ask you, but I have to. And a part of me hopes you'll say no. We can pull off a full out assault with our current numbers, but it isn't going to be easy. Most will die unless we figure something out. Maybe there's a way to draw away forces, maybe there's a way to weaken the Citadel Things.

But right now... it's looking like high casualties."

>>27014371
>>27014388
AHHHHHH

>>27014342
So, for us, Peace would be a kingdom where nothing goes wrong, and our rock is always warm and sunny?

Damn, that would be severely tempting. We'd better think of a promise ourselves. Ssai, Ssah, and Granny, perhaps.

...Maybe we could see about recovering a sunning rock from the wreckage, when this all blows over. If the effect lingers, we could use the rock to induce a kind of mental suspended animation or hibernation to give our brain some time to cool down.

As a backup waking-up system, we could put the whole thing on a spindle with a sign saying "In case of emergency, flip rock."

>>27014388
I think you're far too quick to start 'owling at me, to be honest. I'm beginning to think I should duck out of here before you start raven. Emu that tensions were highly strung around here, but there's no need to ostrichize me like that.

>>27014371
>>27014388
>>27014450
Leviathan brain: Driving dragon brain crazy since roughly 19 years ago.

>>27014465
Peace would us, Tricia, and a cart load of kids being fur traders.

>>27014484
>Those fucked up spoiler tags

File: 1378263988943.gif-(1.84 MB, 350x196, 1374160281458.gif)

1.84 MB GIF

>>27014484

File: 1378264005335.jpg-(82 KB, 470x581, 1376183283964.jpg)

82 KB JPG

>>27014484
It hurts

>>27014484
nested pun tags. I like it. Sorry didn't mean to egg you on.

>>27014494
nothing so complex.
Just a rock.

>>27014465
You know, if you think of leviathan brains as computers.... they tend to get wonky after being left on for a while what they need is a good reset, saves all the data, removes the bugs.
Orc Mead is a cure for Snakeperson Alzheimers.
Yes I am suggesting we turn it off and then on again. Fuck it.

File: 1378264092102.jpg-(212 KB, 1080x1080, 1353265071062.jpg)

212 KB JPG

>>27014525
>nested pun tags. I like it. Sorry didn't mean to egg you on.

IT KEEPS HAPPENING

File: 1378264099867.jpg-(51 KB, 400x232, totems[1].jpg)

51 KB JPG

>>27014465

Or maybe we get a rock, and let no one else touch it. EVER. That way only we know what it's like, how the stone feels against our scales when its hot, and how the contours hold our weight...

>>27014484

OH GOD WHAT

"Yes. But it's well defended. Perhaps too well defended. We think it's in the castle. Or, in an alternate citadel accessed by the castle? Hm. Anyway, the plan involves causing enough havoc in one point at the entry to the castle that we can snap open a gate to the appropriate plane, which is apparently almost impossible to get into normally. As it stands, that would mean your people, fighting.

"I don't want to ask you, but I have to. And a part of me hopes you'll say no. We can pull off a full out assault with our current numbers, but it isn't going to be easy. Most will die unless we figure something out. Maybe there's a way to draw away forces, maybe there's a way to weaken the Citadel Things. I'm really hoping you know of any leads on other groups that could help us with that, since you people really don't deserve to go this one on your own." You say.

Janos sighs. "There may be a few rouge groups here and there, but the new Caligo Clarus, all those Paladin and Occuli groups, all those things that you saw when you were here last? They all got spat into War and chewed up. Shadow Company absorbed the survivors." Janos says. "We're it."

{There might be another way...but it's just as risky.} Sun says. {What is this unreachable plane like?}

{The SIlver City. You probably saw it when you first entered.} You say.

He nods. {Right before we were separated...I have to ask, did you find Kingfisher or his two flunkies? They said there was a disturbance in Youth, so it was probably them, correct?}

You notice that Cai is translating quietly for Janos to keep him in the loop. She's being quite accurate.

File: 1378264112949.jpg-(103 KB, 498x736, 1377055272731.jpg)

103 KB JPG

>>27014484

>>27014562
{yeah, we found each other. Almost saved or captured him, too, but then things turned into a hostage situation. We're sort of working together now until such time as he backstabs us.}

>>27014510
>>27014521
>>27014525
>>27014558

You know how it is, sometimes when I get started I just start parroting on. I think I might be a bit too eagle, and it's making things a little hawkward.

>>27014635
just keep trucking, soldier. But do save some of that for the front lines, we might need 'em.

File: 1378264373671.jpg-(97 KB, 1058x705, 1377399698400.jpg)

97 KB JPG

>>27014635
Geese loiuse, there's no end to these puns

>>27014562
"{Found him, was his defense attorney and saved his ass in court. Then he tried to backstab me after interrupting my speech. To think that some people call lawyers snakes.}"

File: 1378264455546.jpg-(514 KB, 1440x810, 1376014197504.jpg)

514 KB JPG

>>27014484
>>27014525
>>27014635
>>27014665

Send an ambulance

>>27014635
This is getting herondous. Just quit flapping your gums already before more people flock to the pun side.

>>27014691
Oh fuck, you made me laugh. I don't think that one was even a pun, just a joke.

>>27014562
"Yes. We found Kingfisher being harassed by a group of children. Long story. His plan is allegedly not as bad as Sun surmised, but what exactly we don't know. He promised we'd talk once the Herons were dealt with, however since that's done... I have no idea where he is.

Oh, and apparently he's really mad. Terrible day and all. I'm sorry about that. Maybe in the negotiations he can be persuaded to cut his losses with regards to you. Why make a bad day worse, ya know? Better to forget small stuff. If he doesn't agree, I'll make sure to protect you."

>>27014698
seriously, this is actually probably a mental condition for lamia.
Like seisures or something.

>>27014691
>Turn to Dao
{You didn't say I couldn't use wordplay.}

>>27014781
yep. She didn't say.

>>27014781
heh

File: 1378264926483.png-(84 KB, 175x230, oh god dammit.png)

84 KB PNG

>>27014702
>>27014635

Does anyone have that gif in which a hockey player is repeatedly punched in the head, and the caption reads 'NO NO NO STOP FUCKING POSTING!!!'?

>>27014876
Don't be soar. Your negativity is a birden to us all.

>>27014876
>>27014944
Mari might have a point about it being contageous.

File: 1378265183687.jpg-(24 KB, 591x534, 1369193539004.jpg)

24 KB JPG

>>27014944
I've just realized that this whole back and forth with puns is probably representative of Sideway's stream of thought.

File: 1378265219041.gif-(1018 KB, 300x220, 1369311294821.gif)

1018 KB GIF

This is your Lamia on puns.

>>27014993
Steradians, motherfucker.

File: 1378265326487.jpg-(17 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg)

17 KB JPG

>>27014993
I'm confused.

"Yes. We found Kingfisher being harassed by a group of children and we served as his defense lawyer. Long story. But afterwards he tried to backstab me, after interrupting my speech."

"He does like to set people up for long speeches and then shut them down." Cai says. "He says it throws people off."

"His plan is allegedly not as bad as Sun surmised, but what exactly we don't know. He promised we'd talk once the Herons were dealt with, however since that's done... I have no idea where he is.

"Oh, and apparently he's really mad. Terrible day and all. I'm sorry about that. Maybe in the negotiations he can be persuaded to cut his losses with regards to you. Why make a bad day worse, ya know? Better to forget small stuff. If he doesn't agree, I'll make sure to protect you." You say.

All four of the Empire just stare at you.

{Kingfisher...openly said that he was having a bad day?}

{He lost his temper?}

{That he was NOT in control?}

"That's...never happened. Even when he was not in control, he's always kept up appearances and said that he was. It's one of his tricks." Cai says. "He must be losing his mind if he's gone so far as to be THAT emotional. Sun's stupid plan could actually work!"

"What plan?"

"Short version: We leak the Heart's location to Kingfisher and let him do the heavy lifting for once. If he's as erratic and paranoid as you're suggesting that he is, it may work." Cai says. "But it's a gamble."

"I don't think we want Kingfisher anywhere near the Heart." Mage says. "I can ensure that it'll just be us and only us inside the Silver City with the Assault plan."

File: 1378265595911.gif-(1.08 MB, 320x240, 1376601278677.gif)

1.08 MB GIF

>>27015075
>let Kingfisher be the bait

I'm game.
However, we tell him on one condition: he explains everything. We say nothing until the end.

>>27015034
It's a demonstration of forced perspective. Because the point of view is at the camera, the only visual cue to determine depth is size. The chair that looks normal-sized is a miniature model placed close to the camera (which is also true of the picture -- it is miniscule, and hangs on the lens assembly itself), while one of the apparently normal-sized teacups is actually the size of a dinner plate, but placed further away.

The scene would look obviously wrong if viewed from another perspective (e.g. two eyes), but because it's a strictly monocular view, it looks normal until the host starts moving things around.

>>27015128
Go watch Father Ted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh5kZ4uIUC0

>>27015075
"Still I din't quite get what the Kingfisher really wanted. His rant got interrupted by the two still loyal to him. What is with Theo anyways? I doubt I could bend like she does."

>>27014876
Oh don't be such a fowl old buzzard. Can't you just act pheasant for once and not tern aggressive? 'Caws it's beginning to ruffle my feathers

>>27015075
hmm. Let kingfisher in and possibly have a chance of him getting the heart, or go into battle and assuredly lose some people.
Altogether more complicated by what his plan to go in would be.

"Interesting. I'll need to talk to kingfisher."

File: 1378265820828.gif-(2.33 MB, 400x225, 1370890880800.gif)

2.33 MB GIF

>>27015162
STOP I'LL TELL YOU ANYTHING
NAMES, BANK ACCOUNTS, LAUNCH CODES, ANYTHING
JUST MAKE IT STOP

File: 1378266014424.png-(218 KB, 640x360, 1367472365749.png)

218 KB PNG

>>27015162

>>27015075
"It really depends on how kingfisher would go about breaking in, then, doesn't it? Suppose I'll have to find out for myself.
We'll keep the frontal assault open as a solid option B, for when this falls through, mage."

"That, and I don't think we actually have enough mind protection supplies to cover him."

>>27015183
Alright. He's starting to sing like a bird. Wing him a few more times and he'll be ready to host a Greater Daemon of Punning.

Okay, so we tell Kingfisher that he has to explain everything and then be open for a few minutes of commentary. No speeches from us, just attempts to edit his plan or point out faulty logic.

But for a good fifteen minutes in-story he can rant to his heart's content.

>>27015183
Oh stop squawking, both you and emu it would come to this, so Parakeet and stop getting so eggcited.

>>27015406
Your puns are getting a little weak, featherweight.

>>27015326
about right. I'd like to have a conversation with the guy if we're going to be using him for this, just in case he DOES manage to get to the heart without stopping him.

I'm also for telling him we are totally going to stop him after he opens a way into that heart, for the sake of fair play.

>>27015406
>>27015450
I keep tellinsyas, you have to save them for when we need them!

After we tell the PE gang that we agree to Sun's plan, let's ask Mage in private about that human genetic thing.

Just ask him.

File: 1378266753173.gif-(2.39 MB, 300x132, puns.gif)

2.39 MB GIF

>>27015162
>>27015406

You're pushing it, man. You've gone from Eva-level cuteness to Adahn-level excessiveness. Stop before puns become altogether unpopular.

Keep it up and people will think we're from Reddit or something.

>>27015450
I'm just proud I managed to use parakeet. Honestly, that one was tough.

Still, wren you are as dedicated and talonted at puns as I am, you swant to put in the extra effort.

>>27015499
I can't stop

Help me

>>27015532
>>27015499
what'd I say. Legitimate mental illness. Ssen needs a lamiapsychologist and those don't exist.

>>27015545
bah. Psychotherapy is bunk. Lamiapsychologists are all snake oil salesmen.

File: 1378267151540.gif-(164 KB, 245x180, 1358916074697.gif)

164 KB GIF

>>27015593
Okay, that was clever. But enough is enough.

>>27015158
>"Still I din't quite get what the Kingfisher really wanted. His rant got interrupted by the two still loyal to him. What is with Theo anyways? I doubt I could bend like she does."

"Theo? Oh Teo-Has...umm...short version is she doesn't really have any bones...at all. It's much more complicated with that, involving chemicals, and training, and treatments, but...yeah. She doesn't really have any bones." Cai says. "Also she's a prime-A bitch and a whore who would bite her john's co-"

{MOVING ON!} Sun snaps. {What do you think of that plan?}

"It really depends on how kingfisher would go about breaking in, then, doesn't it? Suppose I'll have to find out for myself.

"We'll keep the frontal assault open as a solid option B, for when this falls through, Mage." You say.

"It's going to be tough." Janos says. "If we do that push, we'll need nearly everyone, and that means we can spare too many people to stay here and protect the refugees that we've rescued from the other Citadels." He nods. "But, I agree. I'm not staying inside this nightmare for any longer than I have to."

"So, we're going with the plan to try and fool a man who has done exactly that, in a civilization that's magnitudes more duplicitous than ours, for at least as many years as we've been alive?" Tricia asks.

"Sounds like a Dawnchaser plan." Lea says.

{Why did I suddenly feel a sense of foreboding dread?} Memai asks.

>>27015612
No kidding. This horse has been beaten so hard, vultures have started to overhead.

Okay, last one. I promise. I'm done now. I'm going to go and break my fingers with a hammer so I can't continue.

>>27015653
"Really, he's been at it since before we were alive. If you want to get all technical. Hopefully, we'll do it with a minimum of tricks."

{Lea told me it's because you have a sense of self preservation. Either that or you missed lunch.}

>>27015653
give our biggest grin
"{You'll see}"

>>27015653
Okay, now pull Mage aside and ask him about the human genetics problem. Just ask if he could work out a solution on his own with the Northern girl. Subtly imply we're thinking of something.

If his answer is reasonably hopeful, then I see no reason why we should consider using Citadel to fix it. If his answer is "everything's fucked," then I see that as Echo suggesting there's a bad end coming for non-humans.

>>27015784
No, lets not

>>27015776
you have beaten me in brevity and wit, good sir.

>>27015819
Why not? Just ask him if he could manage something on his own. Don't even mention Citadel.
I want to know.

File: 1378267902307.jpg-(129 KB, 677x593, 20-d.jpg)

129 KB JPG

>>27015653
You're about to see the Dawnchasers in action. Try to keep up, and follow the bouncing ball.

>>27015784
>Bad End
>Dusk explicitly said that the human genome was simply making them harder to be contacted by otherworldly shit.
We aren't plotters, we are not going to do anything like that. Stop trying to force fucking eugenics on shit.

File: 1378268030085.jpg-(20 KB, 265x265, 1376676064347.jpg)

20 KB JPG

>>27015862
What? Have you even been paying attention?

File: 1378268130442.gif-(270 KB, 720x1813, 7OenJ3oefyEtLzhzirS[1].gif)

270 KB GIF

>>27015860

>The Bouncing Ball

Oh no. Oh HELL no. No no no no no.

So like, I'm pretty sure we can make Kingfisher happy without the need for any magic whatsoever. Since what he wants is basically just modern education and social services systems, and we're on the road to those anyway.

>>27015944
He wants it to be done magically, though.

File: 1378268240596.jpg-(335 KB, 943x828, bbeg.jpg)

335 KB JPG

>>27015860

>>27015962
That's mainly because the PE is shit and he doesn't see any other option.

>>27016000
>>27015962
it all hinges on the "entropy" thing he mentioned. So far, the things he suggests seem to be social changes, nothing involving the eventual end of the universe.

>>27015968
>Feed me geologists!

Also that shit is motherfucking cookie monsters.

>>27016033
Physical entropy scares him, but he probably understands that without it everything shuts down. Light and heat from the Sun stop immediately.

>>27015784
We aren't in agreement on doing anything about that at all, let alone starting now while we're in Citadel.

>>27016033
Eh, we can solve entropy by giving little girls magical powers then horrifically traumatizing them.

>>27016070
Well before in the thread we all agreed to ask Mage whether he could do anything.

All he has to say is "yeah, I think we could manage something" and the debate ends.

File: 1378268674950.jpg-(33 KB, 370x146, 1358239016083.jpg)

33 KB JPG

>>27016083
That doesn't solve it per se, it just gives the universe more time.

Good idea, though.

{You'll see} You say with a big grin. "Okay, you guys work on that, getting Kingfisher the news, and moving Shadow Company into place. Mage, you and me need to talk about something that's been bugging me."

You and Mage walk off to one of the palisade walls. "Okay, what's the next page in my to-do book going to be dedicated towards?"

>>27016126
"Little girls. Magical powers. Horrific mental trauma. Staving off the heat death of the universe. Can you do it?"

>>27016126
what the fuck we're gonna do with several million people after this is all over

tho thats not really his department

>>27016126
"You know that thing (three eyed girl, forget the name) said up north? About non-humans slowly being more like humans? I'm getting tempted and I want to know if you could do something about it with her? Not now, not even necessarily within your lifetime or mine. Can something be done?"

>>27016126
well, apparently we're asking him, but I'm staunchly opposed to using citadel for it in any circumstance. though it HAS been weighing on my mind.

"Uh, well, you remember what nakai said? About humans taking over and all that? I just sort of wanted to get your opinion. I was thinking that maybe citadel caused it and it would go back to a more even split now, or something. I figured you'd be the only one who might even begin to know, since I think you're the foremost expert on the field of weird magic biology stuff. It all sounds silly when saying it out loud, but I worry about it sometimes."

>>27016202
that is a good question.
Who goddamn knows. I hope the wasteland is less waste-y once we disperse citadel, at least.

>>27016170
please disregard the obvious jokepost, in case you didn't notice.

>>27016253
Asking him about the way Citadel might break apart is a good idea too.

>>27016126
"Oh, and what's going to happen to citadel when we seal the heart? If that's what we're still doing.
I want to be slightly more prepared than last time we were here."

>>27016271
Yes, let's do that instead. There is a time to ask about the genetics thing and this isn't it. Mage should be thinking about dealing with Citadel and making sure Fifth can't take its place right now, not genetics.

>>27016352
No, how bout both.

>>27016362
Because now is not the time to worry about that so bringing it up can only serve to distract Mage.

the genetics thing is a but iffy, but it's what we brought him over for.
Though we should certainly ask him about citadel, that seems more important. We have hundreds of years to deal with genetics.

>>27016460
>>27016456
Yeah, but if Mage's answer is "yes," then we have one less thing to worry about. If his answer is "no," then, well, I'll admit the consensus is that we don't use Citadel.

But either way we put an end to the unknowns.

"Uh, well, you remember what nakai said, about non-humans slowly being more like humans? I was thinking that maybe Citadel caused it and it would go back to a more even split now, or something. I figured you'd be the only one who might even begin to know, since I think you're the foremost expert on the field of weird magic biology stuff." You say.

"Well...Nakai's actually got more knowledge about that kind of stuff than me. I know how magic shapes the current flesh, but as for propagation I'm not so great. I honestly was convinced for the longest time that it was the homunculus theorem, although debatable as to if the male seed was the source or a stimulant, when Nakai starts to talk about thing like corona zones and acids, she starts to lose me." He pauses. "And you, by the look on your face."

"But is Citadel causing the humanization?" You ask.

"Maybe." Mage says. "The best way to check would to see if that still happened in the UFK since it's been disconnected from Citadel, but that would take years of observation."

"Well, if it isn't Citadel doing it, could you and Nakai come up with a solution? Or at least start the groundwork towards one?" You ask.

"Ssen...is this about the Dragonfly thing?" He asks. He looks down and away. "Sorry, never should have brought it up." He sighs. "Alright, alright. I'll look into it with her. But...well...if it's been so widespread across the kingdom...then even when you take away the magic that's been causing the humanization, it'll take a generation or two for it to return to normal. But, like I said, Nakai knows more about this than I do."

>>27016504
"Okay, thanks. I won't bring it up again. Tell me how Citadel's going to come crashing down."

Strong implication that Citadel is causing it.

>>27016504
*give mage a lamia hug*
"Thanks"

>>27016504
"A generation or two is fine. So long as non-human species can be taken off the path to extinction."

"Anyways, plenty of time to worry about that later. Remember how Fifth was planning to take Citadel's place until the entire dome event ruined his plans? When we seal Citadel's heart is he going to be able to jump right back in like he originally planned?"

>>27016504
"Oh, marvelous, load off my mind. And no, not quite a dragonfly thing, just... worries. Sorry for bothering you with that- I have something much more pressing to bother you with.
How's citadel going to fall apart when we do whatever it is we're doing to the heart? Sealing it, right? I don't want a repeat of last time, and I don't want to imagine what a sphere looks like when it folds in on itself. It makes my head really hurt."

>>27016504
gices lamia hug "but you still didnt answer my question, can the citidel magic be used to stop the over propagation of the human race?"

File: 1378270089100.jpg-(117 KB, 894x641, science![1].jpg)

117 KB JPG

>>27016504
>>27016550
>>27016559

We shouldn't worry. While phenotypes are generally blended together, such complex and environmentally active traits as snakeness or harpyness will likely affect the ability of an individual to live in a given environment. Thus there will be locations were Lamia and Harpies (and other metahumans) will be able to live comfortably where humans cannot. Blending will occur on the borders of these areas, but the selection will get more specific the more extreme the enviroment.

Given the diversity of biomes we've seen so far, I seriously doubt that total homogenization will occur without any magical influence.

"Alright, how will Citadel break apart then?" You ask. "I don't want the dome to fall on everyone." You say.

"Yeah." Mage sighs. "That's something we did need to talk about. If you don't want that, then you or someone else is going to have to take control of the Heart...of Citadel. Basically, someone's going to have to take Peace's role once the Grand Seal disconnects Citadel's raw instincts from the Heart. Just for a few moments, and they have to undo the dome, reunite the different Citadels, bring the people back, and set loose all the souls...which will be ANOTHER problem, because without the souls, Citadel will start to crumble.

"Someone needs to be a God, or else it'll be as big of a massacre if the Phoenix Empire took over. And then, if we want OUR plan to work, they need to give up the power." He bites his lip. "Don't ask me to do it Ssen. I don't think I could do it."

>>27016636
nope. Gonna nope that. We're doing this without citadel stuff.

Well, we got that out of the way. Even if we wanted to use Citadel, mage barely understands the biological birds and the bees, so it wouldn't work.

>>27016653
You're right, but I think we all want a world where a non-human is in love with a human doesn't have to worry about preserving the species or whether she's a race traitor.

>>27016678
>somebody has to be God
Welp.

>>27016678

So we need a Cincinatus. Someone who will hold all the power in the world, and then put it back.

>>27016678
I think lea's strong will might be best here

>>27016636
No ,we don't even want to know that. I think we're mostly in agreement that if we do do something about the genetics thing, it won't be by using Citadel.

Let's not create temptation for ourselves.

>>27016678
so... either us or lea

lea would probably die doing it tho, but thats what she would want

>>27016723
Let's all agree that if it's some switch we can turn on and off, we switch it to off.

If it's a switch we have to turn on, that's different.

>>27016678
"I'm out too, I can't trust dragonbrain to not do something dragony. I don't think Tricia or Peri/Mari could benefit from even more magic fuckery and none of the birds can be trusted. Lea really is our only option unless you want to chance something weird."

>>27016678
"That's... that's specifically what I had wanted to avoid. The citadel falling on the people and someone taking control of it both.
I don't suppose it'll be as easy as carving instructions onto a rock and throwing it into the controls? It never is.
I'll start thinking of people. Lea maybe. I might try, but things would probably be all silly when I put them back. Isen might work, he hates being king. But we'd have to ship him in somehow.
On a scale of 1-10, how apocalyptic would citadel simply falling be for the people inside? Since I'm weighing options here."

>>27016678
Alright, if we're going to be the one to do this, we all have to agree we're doing exactly what Mage described. Just and only that, no fixing things, no tweaks. Undo the dome, bring the people back safely, free the souls, that's it.

And if we're not the one to do it, Lea is a good candidate.

>>27016834
yep. No fixing things, no tweaks, and NO PUNS.

"That's... that's specifically what I had wanted to avoid. The citadel falling on the people and someone taking control of it both. I don't suppose it'll be as easy as carving instructions onto a rock and throwing it into the controls?"

Mage shakes his head.

"It never is." You say. "Well, I'm out too. I can't trust dragonbrain to not do something dragony. I'll start thinking of people. Lea maybe."

"She'd be my pick." Mage says.

"On a scale of 1-10, how apocalyptic would citadel simply falling be for the people inside? Since I'm weighing options here." You ask.

"Right now? I could only guarantee the survival of Shadow Company and the people they rescued. Everyone else would have better survival odds if they were in Stone Hall when the Ghouls attacked."

>>27016834
I'm sure one could make a list of all the temptations Lea has resisted.

Even so, we should ask her if she's got anything she'd do anything to get.

>>27016862
>Ssen sits on the heart
>"New rule, all sentients must enjoy puns"

>>27016872
>Ssen's rules of punning
Yeah, that could get bad fast.
It was contageous all along.

>>27016863
"Well, we'll ask lea. If she thinks she can't do it either, I guess it'll be settled with thumb wars. Maybe a coin toss."

>>27016863
yep, Lea is gonna do her self-sacrifice for the good of everyone

that or she flips and we have to kill her ourselves

"Well, we'll ask Lea. If she thinks she can't do it either, I guess it'll be settled with thumb wars. Maybe a coin toss." You say.

"Maybe, but it's going to be very very difficult to give that power up." Mage says. "Maybe that's why Peace tuned on the Dragon Who Was Of Shadow. She got all the power of Citadel and decided that she just didn't need her 'father' or whatever they were.

"Mortal creatures are rather bad at fulfilling the tasks of Gods, and Gods are rather shit at managing the lives of mortals." Mage says, and then sighs. "Eh, I'm talking out of my ass."

This is reminding me of any given vidya RPG right before the final battle.

You talk to everyone because this is your last opportunity.

>>27017067
I's almost like we're nearing the end of our quest

>>27017066
"Oh please, that is perfect, and I have faith in Lea."

>using Lea

Much like >>27016730 I'm getting a nagging sensation we're raising her death flag.

>>27017066

On the other hand, we're not mortal.

>>27017066
"Don't worry, you'll have years to smarten up your rambling into something sounding like sagacity. Hopefully. I suppose we should run this one past lea then, maybe the others too. All our close friends deserve to know."
I guess group meeting on godhood. I wonder what happens if you go into it full to the gills of mind protection potion.

>>27017155
I don't think she'd die. I don't think this thing is lethal to the user.

>>27017182
Agreeing.

And mechanically, if it's Lea it's going to come down to rolls. The same might be true of us, but at least we'll have some ability to control it.

>>27017206
we might just have to bite the bullet and go for it.

>final battle is not with Citadel, but with The Transcendent Ssen aka dragonbrain

"Don't worry, you'll have years to smarten up your rambling into something sounding like sagacity. Hopefully. I suppose we should run this one past lea then, maybe the others too. All our close friends deserve to know." You say.

"Alright." Mage says. "Let's go get them."

You arrive to find that Janos, and the Stray Birds have already left.

"The birds went to go lure Kingfisher and Janos is marshaling Shadow Company." Tricia says.

"Alright." You say. "Now's as good as time as any, I suppose. Tell them Mage."

Mage explains how there has to be some form of sentience in charge of Citadel, or else there'll be nothing but destruction and death.

"And you think I'M good enough to do it?" Lea asks. "Ssen...I...I don't know."

"You don't KNOW?" Tricia asks. "Lea, you're the most morally righteous person on the planet!"

"But...there's things that I want." She says. "I'm only mortal. There's a long list of wishes and hopes and desires...and...I know that wish is another word for 'trap,' but the chance to get what you want, exactly how you want it and consequence free?" She shakes her head. "I...I don't know."

>>27017336
nah, its gonna be with lea after she goes crazy with power and convinces herself that she is the light and steals becon from us

>>27017411
"Then it's simple. We all do it."