The first priority is making sure your citizens get food, water, and a place to sleep. Since this is a medieval city, I'm assume it's built near a large source of water, so they takes care of that. For food, if you have fertile soil, use that for farmlands. If not, find something you can export as trade for food. If THAT doesn't exist either, import raw materials and establish crafting guilds, and export finished goods. As for a place to sleep, you'll need access to building supplies like wood or stone, so same story as before.

Central hub? Start offering tax breaks to merchants, low tarrifs, the like of that. Open up warehouses with low rent, try to attract merchants from exotic far away lands for both buying and selling. You want your city to become a hub of trade. If you can get enough volume of trade going through your city, even if your taxes are only 1%, you will make a shitload of dinero, and everything else will be a breeze after that.

>>25515879
We've got fresh water from the lake, and ample food supplies for now. The city was abandoned, so it's mostly just fixing up existing homes. We've zoned the city into governmental, merchant, and citizen areas. However, most of our citizens are soldiers, so income and a steady food supply still haven't been addressed.

>>25515879
You really just need to designate farmland and building rights and grant/sell that to commoners, they will gladly take care of the rest.
The lords should just bother with large public projects like bridges, roads, castles, canals and whatnot.

>>25515732
Try and establish yourself as a neutral trade hub. Mercs have loads of dosh to spend, give them a place to do so.
Offer the Rakshasa a place to trade goods easily. Make trade more appealing than war.

>>25516028
Currently the players are the only nobles in the city. How do w go about offering titles? Should we look for neighboring nobles who are down on their luck?

>>25516028
Irrigation rights too. That would be another job you need some sort of government for, managing how much water everyone gets. Depending on the size of and source for the lake this could be very important.

>>25516069
Unfortunately the rakshasa are all powerful demon wizards that already attacked us. I was able to talk the mercenaries down from attacking us. It looks like they might ally with us.

>>25516001
>most of our citizens are soldiers
How necessary are they for defense? You could reward some of them with a nice retirement into civilian life (which is probably what they planned to do in a few years anyway.)
If you can't spare any soldiers, then send offers to colonize to nearby cities and towns. You should find many households with a 7th son or an orphan nephew that they can't set up due to limited land and jobs, they will be glad to send him make a living somewhere else.
Depending on the social structure, you might need to pay their owners for taking their rightful serfs, but since they're just extra mouths to feed, it should be cheap enough. If they're free citizens you don't have to pay anything. Either way, you can probably work some sort of credit deal: a portion of what they produce gets sent to their former lords for a period, something like that. This way you don't put too much of a strain on your limited budget.

>>25516158
The lake is pretty huge. It's got an underwater city of 4 armed fish people that attacked us, but apparently they can be negotiated with.

>>25516158
Yeah. Ideally, every village and city district should have someone in charge of surveying the needs and who owns what.

>>25516149
You don't really need other nobles, except maybe for higher governing offices if your characters aren't enough. I think low-ranking nobles will flock to your court soon enough.
If your characters are capable of enobling people, consider rewarding some of your soldiers in this way.
You can fill council positions with guild leaders and other commoners for now, but do note that it will set a precedent for mixed-class councils, and the people will expect you to respect this right in the future.

>>25516320
Yeah, we're pretty much surrounded by threats currently. Also, i don't think the soldiers are from our plane.

Recruiting abroad seems like a great plan. There's a lot of unrest, and we've got hero status. I'm hopping we can secretly start a little rebellion in some of the nastier Kingdoms and siphon people off.

Are there any DnD rituals that let you duplicate flyers quickly? Or even better have secret messages in them?

So you're sandwiched between the Biglarge McHugeland and an endless sea of mercenary lords?

I think we both know what you should specialize in (Hint: it involves being a middleman.)

Find out what you've got that other people want and exploit the FUCK out of it. Figure out what the city originally exported if you can.

Pastures? Herd animals.
Forests? Lumber and game.
Mountains? Ores and gems.
Beaches? Fishing.
Wastelands? Stone and brick.
Jungle? Spices.
Volcanic ash? Coffee.
Solid clouds? Pillows.
Dungeons? Monster parts.
Salt flats? Salt.
Desert? Glass.

If there's one thing humans are great at doing, it's exploiting the fuck out of things.

Don't forget to try to turn potential problems into profit.

You got a drider problem? Lemme show you your new silk factory.
Fire demons? Holy shit, I bet they could get hot enough for casting steel! (big deal)
You mentioned some fish people? Sounds like you've got yourself a potential sponge farm.

>>25516983
>Salt flats? Salt.

>Salt
>Coming from salt flats

Get out.

>>25516983
Yeah, there's not any infrastructure at the moment, but we've got good pasture and farm land, forests, and a number of tunnels going into the massive mountain we haven't explored yet.

>>25517022
Look, I know it's a radical idea, but bear with me here.

>>25517222
>and a number of tunnels going into the massive mountain we haven't explored yet.

Dig greedily and dig deep.

Unleash a beast of shadow and flame.

Advertise it as a high-level dungeon for adventurers or ambitious mercenary lords.

>>25517274

Next you're going to tell me that iron filings don't grow into steel stalks or that feeding fruits and vegetables to gelatinous cubes won't turn them into delicious desserts.

>>25517280
My god, you're right. Then, set up shops outside to reap massive profits.

Perhaps have a "bunny hill" section where you set up the "hero experience". Wannabes pay to go in with a trained team and beat up a few rats of usual sizeandopen a chest with fake shiny baubles at the end.

Turn it into a theme park with hotels.

>>25517384

And then you have mid-experience adventurers that could stock up on goods in your city at exorbitant prices before delving into the Mercenary Lord lands.

You know, because they got a "contract" from some "concerned parties" about an "out of control" marauder lord who is "threatening" the countryside.

Easiest way to off the competition is sic an adventuring party on them using false pretenses.

>>25517442
One of our players is a well know freedom fighter.I f there's a group easier to manipulate than young impressionable freedom fighters, i don't know what it is.

>>25517222
Oh, we've also got our fleet of airships, which seen pretty rare. We traded one for most of our starting supplies and a ton of gold. The guy we traded it to planned to use it for transporting goods, which might be a handy trick. Our area is very mountainous.

>>25517589
Middle aged house wives with young children living a sedentary lifestyle.

You could bottle your own feces, tell them it's a magic mud that will keep them looking young if applied once a week and they'd ask to buy it by the gallon.

>>25517716
OP, it sounds like you're playing Fantasy Rogue Trader.
And that's awesome.

>>25517829
True. Convince them it's for the safety of the children and they'll do anything.

>>25517829

Well, seeing as these guys have four-armed Fishmen living right next to them...

Hey, OP, has your character ever fancied himself a Fantastical Mister Garnier? Invent the 'alchemical secret formula of Nutrixo', and they will pour copper into your coffers.

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>>25515732

> very own (rather rundown) city

How overgrown/abandoned is it?
Have you checked for Squatters? For all you know there could be any number of beasties and beings setting up light house keeping in your City.
Why was the city abandoned? Is the reason it was Abandoned still there?
Have you taken advantage of what was left behind? Don't forget to Check the Crop fields- they might be overgrown, but Perennial crops would still persist.


What other species are living around? Like, not all squatters are squatters after all- some might actually be interested in helping you start something.

>>25517841
Yeah, technically it's DnD 4th, but the DM is really good about making things up on the fly. We've had 7 hour sessions with no combat that were still a blast.

>>25518425
It was mostly ruins, been abandoned for a good century or two. Luckily it's mostly stone architecture. There were squatters,mostly of the monster variety. Some infected zombies were burnt, a beholder was killed, and we cleared the place out.

There was a nearby encampment of orcs that we've brought in to the city. Again, mostly warriors, but every bit helps.

You could offer titles to those people who do superb work in reconstructing the city. Maybe some rich merchants are looking to buy into the ranks of the nobility, for instance.

I would hold on to the rest of your airships. Make serving on them a high honor. Use them as scouts and rapid transports. Make sure their captains are highly loyal so that they don't abscond with a massively valuable vessel.

Can someone please tell me there is a rule book for this.
if not I'll put my PHD in literature to good work and make one.

Have those tunnels scouted. You don't want to find out in a couple of months that they were a dragons home when it wakes up.

I would suggest setting general policies that encourage people to take initiative on their own to set up businesses or do reconstruction of the town.

>>25519198
Might find some ideas in the AD&D handbooks. Better than the Pathfinder Kingmaker series at least.

>>25519232
Thanks.
if not I'll write up some simple rules, post it in a new thread later.

>>25519204
Yeah, perhaps some sorry of incentives program? Maybe also drop taxes for anyone ruining a business/working a farm after so many months? Gives us money to get on our ferry, while bringing people in and encouraging then to stay.

>>25519289
OP here, sounds awesome!

OP, have you...

...set a code of laws in place? Do those orcs know the punishment if they rape a woman or steal from a shop?

...had your soldiers organized into groups with designated leaders (who you have ensured the loyalty of with both words and a bit of extra pay)?

...secured a supply of food and heat for the winter?

...considered pitting the mercs against the Rakshasha?

...ensured that you have a water source INSIDE the city walls in case of seige?

>>25519355
I'll get to work now I guess, The names Alexy, keep it in mind folks.

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>>25519098

>Orcs

Orcs make fine enough work force if you're not squeamish about Forcing them to get off their asses and do something. Set up an Orcish ghetto and begin converting the weakest, stupidest, and least ambitious of them into Orcish Workers. The exceptional ones could be made into Guards- let them police themselves to some Degree.

Keep them around for cheap labor and Wargs/Dog Farms.

>>25519394
I'ma chill in this thread while i write up the rules, if anyone has any recommendations, tips, advice I'll add them in, just use spoiler or greentext to get my attention.

>>25519418
And you sir are a beast, keep up the great suggestions.

>>25519443
fuck, I need a name for the game.
"Cities of TG" sound good?

>>25515732
What's the source on that image?

>>25519418
>Ghetto
>Of orcs
No way this can backfire!

You could alternatively split them up throughout the city and the guard force so that it is hard to organize racially. Humans can keep an eye on them for the most part that way, without it being obviously done.

Of course you brand it as embracing inclusion into city life and ensuring orc battle prowess is spread throughout the military so that all units are fierce.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/18975121/
This thread was filled with guides mostly for DMs to create working economies, and worlds. I'm sure that you could examine these so that you can create a thriving city

OP, how did you come into possession of the city, army, and airships?

>>25519473
Yeah, it works.

>>25518925
Out of curisoity have you or your DM looked up REIGN by Greg Stolze?

it has a number of sections on how to handle things like wealth and rulership without too much fiddly detail. While the Company rules work best with the games One Roll Engine, they can be retooled for many systems and are a great way of simplifying the more complex stuff like economics

>>25519601
or we could not be racist to the fiercest force known to the world and encourage the racial diversity, educate them, we need a world of thinkers not slaves.

if you educate orcs you'll have smart, loyal, warriors and you'll be able to send them of monster hunts, they would be smart enough to deal with unknown situations with diplomacy and calmness, and if all else fails, war rage.

>>25519791
Thanks sir.

The hardest part about making this rule book is I don't know what the rules should be. I feel retarded.

is this thread dead?

A resident name fag here did a civilization quest with some of the best city building I have ever had the pleasure to play through. Gritty, brutal, and fun. RedWhiteAndBritfag, look up his civilization quest for info. He never released him method though.

>>25520460
OP here, had a work emergency, but I'm still monitoring. I'll chime back in a bit.

>>25520680
Okay, good luck

Sorry for somewhat derailing your thread op, I'm going to start my own thread for it, unless you don't mind me, parasitic bastard.

>>25519388
Currently we the players are ruining an interim government. Laws are still being agreed on. Food and heat is currently being worked on. The soldiers have all been given a chain of command and loyalty ensured. The mercs ate afraid of the Rakshasa empire, but I'm working on that currently. Not sure on the Wells in the area, but that's something to check out.

>>25519717
They were all rewards for our journey across the planes. The DM basically sent us through the Odyssey, so we just arrived back 30 years and one God War later. Hence us not having any contacts in place.

>>25521269
Should be running, but hey, what's the difference, right?

>>25519418
I agree the orcs will prove handy. We've already used them to help bring in wood and start repairs. We've only got a couple females though, it's mostly warriors. I think we need something to keep them entertained in order to keep them busy. Otherwise it's just behind for crime.

>>25519601
The party revolutionary is already about equality, so we just have to make inclusion mandatory in"support" of this ideal. Good PR, and keeps racial division from creating problems down the line.

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Everyone the thread must be brought back to life

> Picture related

>>25521866
OP here, sounds like a plan!

Had any progress on rules writing?

Here's a new question for people: how reasonable is it to start a spy network along with or trade network? Again, we have very little current information or contacts. There are two big evil nations vying for control, but there are a number of smaller nations with varying desires. How does one start a spy network? My current idea is to use my characters position in Tiefling society (he's scheming to start Neo Turath). They seem like a good race for it, but i feel like I'd also need more trust worthy individuals to infiltrate the upper echelons.

>>25519548
Maoyū Maō Yūsha

It's basically a show about the hero and the denim king (both pictured) deciding to use economics to end war and create peace between humans and demons.

Has anyone had a chance to try out the Ultimate Campaign rework of Kingmaker's kingdom building rules?

>>25520460
I'm not really sure, but it seems like you'd want a few things at least. A easy to scale prices up to the size of purchases. Taxes and tariffs. Maybe tables for supply and demand. Ways to purchase services as well as goods. Modifications for seasonal items. Currency exchange rates. Things like that I'd imagine.

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>>25522099
Progress? hahahaha... oh *wipes a tear away* no, Rule writing isn't my forte, but I'm trying.
>MFW
>>25522751
Thanks.

I'm thinking of just keeping the rules in my head, making the rule book more of a tutorial, like give them a map, a character and then let them play like that until they get the rules (that are mentioned along the way through the book) because if DND was formatted like that I would have learned it easy as hell.

then after I get the rules fully in my head, I have other peoples opinions I'll then write the real V1 rulebook.

Cities of TG will come to life, if I fail at this I'll just use my C++ knowledge and make a randomly generated fantasy civilization sim.

>>25523992
Hey, sounds good to me. I like the lighter approach. If nothing else, random generators are always appreciated!

>>25524221
I'm awesome like that.
Free games for everyone *throws lines of code at every anon in the thread*

I must be going for now my friends, I wish you good luck in your endeavors

OP, you're the man who kicked me in the ass to get back to coding, thank you.

I will see you in the future my friends.

I feel a meritocracy would be ideal. You need to reward competence and hard work, as that encourages potential nobles and councillors to strive toward a title, and you also need to reward loyalty, as having loyal, capable people at your side when running a small city is a boon. Lineage shouldn't matter when it comes to deciding who will help you run your city.

>>25524604
That was what I was thinking. We don't have any established nobility to please, or government to obey. Meritocracy seems like the fastest way to get on our feet, and gives the DM some easy hooks to have us oppose other nations down the line.

What are the potential problems of a meritocracy though?

>>25524743
>REIGN
Meritocracy means being promoted or recognized for actual works that improve the arena in which you work, or volunteer; it should mean, in faux-Greek, rule by the meritorious. In practice, it means "kiss the bosses ass and toe the line, and maybe you will get some awesome powerz!"
Meritocracy rests its validity on the validity of objective external measures of merit, which can become a difficulty when some people have skills or resources enabling them to "game" the measurements. This system falls apart once it becomes complicated enough for people to create lies about their accomplishments and artificially inflate their status. Meritocracy at any meaningful level will be rife with corruption due to the lack of checks other than what the beautiful elite deem unfair. All it takes is for the most intelligent/wealthiest man to go "fuck this system." And the whole thing falls into shambles.

>>25524743
Overly ambitious nobles, I suppose. People who rise through the ranks too quickly may find themselves the targets of intrigue or assassinations. Going off of that last part, people don't tend to let go of power that easily. If your newly landed noble were to die somehow, who would take his place? Would you appoint someone new? What of his offspring, who feel they have a claim to that land or title by birth? This could set off a lot of pretty interesting intrigue, if you're into that sort of thing.

Also, I play way too much Crusader Kings 2.

>>25525055
>>25525053
So in other words, a pure meritocracy isn't the way to go. How does one reward effort without encouraging people to use the least amount of effort possible to get by?

>>25525356
Tax breaks tend to be ideal. You can also name public buildings after them, make up some special honors, let them into a hard to enter club...

>>25519418
whoa now. hold on.
>>25519601
>hardly racist at all
>>25520203
>definitely racist

but you call out the former?

>>25525387
Encourage people with the intangible. Noble men sure will fight over who gets the newest wing of the library named after them, won't they?

What about starting a sort of lottery for the more common folk? Every hour worked puts your name into a pot to win things like food, clothes, gold, and most importantly, the prestige of winning in a big ceremony.

>>25525477
Full day worked, or week even. Seriously, HOUR?

>>25525491
Well, in theory it would scale, but i see what you mean. Don't want Frank that worked two hours beating the odds to win.

>>25525356
A historical example of a meritocracy would be the Chinese Imperial Exam, it wasn't for every position, but still for a lot of important ones.

It was corrupt, important families were much more likely to get a high position from it, but on the whole it did an awful lot for allowing people to rise up according to their merits and making sure that there were officials in important places from everywhere in China which is part of the reason China stayed as one country instead of breaking off into lots more regional countries.

It also had other flaws. The Imperial Exam perpetuated its own existence as success got tied to succeeding at the exams, exams with subjects dictated by the old people who had also taken the exams earlier. The entire thing was based on writing essays, eight legged essays, it was the same type and structure of essay every single fucking time, and they were very strict about small mistakes. So the entire thing became extremely resistant to change, innovation, experimentation, encouraged cheating and corruption, and stifled creativity, and new thoughts.

>>25525551
Man, i want even thinking about China. Good point.

So what about the renaissance method? Noble rule, bit more liberal though with ways to advance, and them add a Patronage system on top?

Set it up so the ruling class supports merchants, artists, and craftsmen that they like. You've got a solid core to rule, while still encouraging innovation and personal achievement no matter your station in life.

>>25517022
They are actually. The ancient caravan routes from central africa to egypt were mostly used by merchants shipping breen and salt from central african salt-flats

>>25525790
That would work, but its highly dependent on the wants of the nobles and Patronage usually had a focus on artists, sculptors, writers, poets, and other artistic types, while the other academic stuff was improved by that I think there was more attention given to the arts from that system. Still, much better than nothing, and if you put work into it prioritizing engineers, scientists, mathematicians and people who can do paperwork and run the numbers for merchanty stuff, you should end up pretty okay.

It's always going to be hard to find the talented ones in the lower classes and giving them opportunities to advance, and it won't be perfect, but taking steps toward it is very good.

The merchants in this system would probably do what big merchant families do and grow a lot and become pretty much nobles in their own right, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Though as the government you have less direct control over merchants as their power doesn't come from the government directly.

>>25525790
>setting up patronage

The most you could do is do it yourselves as city leaders and hope it becomes trendy. That's not something for laws.

>>25525817
Citation?

>>25525888
It was in a BBC documentary I watched, they would cut out blocks of salt from the pans around Tchad I think. Can't find conclusive proof on the internet right now but in this wikipedia article there are a lot of references to salt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_trade

>>25525842
>>25525823
True, it is something more to encourage. Still, in a medieval society, it seems like knowledge is a pretty powerful export. Especially once you factor wizards in. Being able to sponsor a powerful wizard to run research in the city could bring some interesting benefits. Especially if you can get him to set up a school.

So what would you fa/tg/uys pick as your government of choice for a growing city state, assuming non-evil alignment.

>>25525916
Digging out the blocks was done by criminals on a sidenote

>>25525920
Autocratic counsil made up by the PC's and some powerfull alies/advisors

>>25525932
Hey, renewable resources are an important part of any municipal plan.

>>25525932
>>25525916
>>25525888

Tuareg still use the traditional trade routes, often traveling 1,500 miles and six months out of every year by camel across the Sahara trading in salt carried from the desert interior to communities on the desert edges

I think this sentence taken from the pedia article is conclusive enough

>>25525920
I would go for a republic, with the PCs in powerful positions, and a lot of meritocratic influence.

>>25515732
I've got it! be a Venice of the air. Bring in those who can build airships and heavily patronize them. Sell air ships abroad and become the central hub of all trading in the region.
You said the city was in the mountains, a very defensible position which hints to a large mountain range. Why ship around the mountains or port between the mountains when you can fly over them.
if the demon wizard empire or the mercenaries try to attack, rain hell upon them from the skies as they navigate the already treacherous mountain passes.

>>25526082
My god, that's brilliant! We're already constructing a landing pad anyways. It makes for a great trade hub. But most of all, I can recreate the Rockies from Crimson Skies! Or really, just anything from that game.

>>25526122
And if you're feeling even more devious you could either fund "bandits" to prey upon those who use the roads, making sure it can't be tracked back to you, or just otherwise make the routes more treacherous by fucking with the ground routes and roads so they're less stable, harder to travel by, yadda yadda.

This makes your shipping the only choice granting you a lot of control.

Why not just become super nationalist and industrialist? With the nationalism you can support your engineers and scientists and with the industrialism you can become a great central trading hub. theres a few downsides though I imagine

>>25526188
With nationalism you can also raise armies quickly and with zealot troops willing to fight to the last man making fierce troops even more so.

>>25526188
>>25526198

You don't just become 'Nationalist'

>>25520199
> REIGN

Yes. Yes, yes.

>>25526188
Nationalism as a concept doesn't really exist in the medieval period, industrialism would also be super expensive to start with, he's better off working on agricultural goods and giving out big subsidies to settlers and people who want to start a business in his city.

Itt: dumbasses think you can just pick a government type like the game Civ, a click and it is in place

>>25526231
well obviously you'd have to slowly move in that direction starting with a government controlled school system get em while they are young

>>25526262
Well given the position he's in he could probably run the city a number of ways.
It could easily be a monarchy or plutocratic aristocracy if you assume it's a standard medieval setting.
I mean, for the people who wanted to run a meritocracy it would be hard to implement, but given the implication that he's independant it could be implemented.

>>25526246
Yeah, we'd rather focus on the practical for the moment. Our coffers aren't exactly overflowing.

That said, we do enjoy a certain noteriety as heroes. With the two largest nations being run by BBEGs, I've been looking at leveraging our fame for fighting evil by seeing our city state up as "the peoples alternative". That said, i don't want to compromise trade. As i mentioned before, I'm looking into setting up a spy network along with the trade network.

>>25526295
Can you give us a rough map, trade routes, potential allies and nearby nations?
Those will impact how you want to go about administrating your new land beyond the basics and will impact your foreign policy massively.

>>25526284
First you'd have to even set up a school system, which would be years and years in the doing. This needs funding. This first school system is needed just to get enough basic teachers for grade school teaching en masse.

Then you need the prosperity to be able to mandate children attending school without the labor loss starving everyone.

Then you have to convince the populace.

You're talking like two decades at least if all goes well (and things never do).

>>25526341
You'll need to teach the teachers how to teach first.
Your best bet would be to found some kind of inventors guild and throw money at it like nothing else to bring in the great minds and an intelligentsia, from here you can probably establish some kind of college system if you have enough population and from there, work down to the lower classes.
The problem is, the lower classes can't afford to teach their children since they'll often need them for work, so until you have some kind of industrial revolution I don't think it's really worthwhile to try and get children properly educated, implement some kind of sunday school system and leave it at that for now.

>>25526341
blame everything on Rakshasa and tell everybody this is their time to rise against the world with enough charisma he could be the next hitler

>>25526376
To be fair, Hitler's government actually did a lot in economy, basically resurrecting the whole country. Hitler is not some kind of saturday morning cartoon villain.
But that's not the point of the thread, so polite sage.

>>25526391
And while it did rebuild the economy his policies would have likely been disastrous in the long term.

>>25526391
isn't that what OP is trying to do? Giving his economy a good kick in the ass?

>>25526341
We are literally starting from scratch. It's just us and our military force of about 1500 in an abandoned city. Dm is giving us free reign on this one

>>25526341

This isn't medieval Europe, there's magic in the setting, and airships imply at least renaissance-level tech. Actually, OP, tell us about your tech and magic base so we know what scenarios are feasible.

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read through the whole thread and one thing i didnt see mentioned. you have a good deal of soldiers, you live next to a land of mercs, why not set yourself up to use the one resource you know you have? become the source for training and fielding mercinaries all races all creeds no questions asked our men will preform there contract to the letter or die in the attempt. you are all heroes of some renown and skill put that to use training a cadre of instructors in various fields. if you could siphon off excess population from kingdoms in turmoil or with unrest. have your bands on contract always looking for talent and work that into all your deals. set up industry and farms and all the other stuff too, but use what you are good at killing things

>>25526435
Magic system seems standard DnD. Tech too, although we've been stuck in other planes for the last 40 years, so the air ships are new to us. They don't seems to be unknown, but are atty least rare. As expected, they are fine dwarven architecture(tm). We've got a druid, warlock and psionic junior necromancer in the party, along with a ranger and a blackguard that alternates to fighter depending in which personality is dominant.

We're still getting maps drawn up, but I'll try to post the political climate shortly.

>>25526496

What is it with /tg/ and wanting to set up Outer Heavens?

>>25526496
That's not a bad idea. They did already try to claim or land as their own, but i convinced them that the rakshasa are a bigger threat (we killed one in our city, which is way outside of their normal territory) and that we would make a good buffer zone if not a good ally.

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with Nationalist Industrialism you'd get something along the lines of the Fire Nation from The last airbender.

>>25526496
on the topic of using what you have, lord is caught by surprise needs help fast, well we have these nice airships that can get us there in time, for a price. lord cant trust anyone in his kingdom crazy paranoid, well use your contacts on the planes bring in soilders from another world who cant be bribed or dont share a language. lord needs rival killed , we have assasins for that. all above board all by contract never break your word and kill with extreme prejudice anyone who doublecrosses you. any soldier who breaks ranks or disobeys has to be taken care of asap. your reputation will be your best asset guard it zealously. as for govt and culture look to the mark brandenburg. surounded by greater powers survive and thrive, never lose sight of your ultimate goals however.

>>25526512
just seemed reasonable given the situation. they are stuck inbetween to large hostile powers one of which there will be no peace with, you are eventually going to need a large organized and skillful army why not start building it now, and in a way that isnt overtly threatening as most of your forces will be dispersed till you need them

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>>25526314
Alright, so here's the breakdown.

The entire center of the map is held by the largest nation and run by the evil wizard. He's got about 20 million in his army, and he's apparently wiped out the entirety of Greyhawk and all living inhabitants.

The entire west of the map is a desert owned by the evil Rakasha. Lots of trade, very warlike, already seem to have it out for us.

We're surrounded to the north and east by a republic that's mostly ran by mercenaries these days. They've managed to hold out against the big evil nations, but they don't seem to have much going on. Lots of coast though.

Other than that, it's a number of smaller nations that have managed to escape notice or held on to isolation. There are a couple interesting points though. To the north of the big empire is a marshland that, while mostly uninhabited, they apparently won't enter. There's also some sort of scar in the land to the southeast of the empire that also freaks them out.

All in all, not much in the way of strong allies. Pretty much anyone that's doing well is a huge evil asshole. Our thoughts have been to try and unite the smaller nations while stirring unrest in the larger ones.

>>25526667
have you ever read any of the dread empire books? a lot of how to deal with a big evil empire literally on your door in those books

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>>25526704
I have not! As this thread shows, I have a lot of free time during the nights at work, might have to pick that up. I'm pretty sure it won't be too long before we've got to deal with one or both of them.

What are some of the highlights from the series?

>>25526667
>20 million strong country
>nope, 20 million in the ARMY

That shouldn't even be feasible in a medieval setting, wizard or not, unless he raised the dead of the entire continent at once. That is ridiculous style numbers. Maybe your intel source exaggerated? Or your DM is on crack...

>>25526767
Most likely the DM has a poor sense of scale.

>>25526767

magicain'tgottaexplainshit.jpg

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>>25526667
Oh! Couple other things I forgot. A Pantheon of gods invaded from another plane, and started a war with the DnD gods. We don't know who won, and apparently things are a bit mixed up. The Shadowfell is completely inaccessible right now. Not sure about the Fey, although the Fey Pact Warlock still has contact with his Patron.

Also, our city currently is livable for about 10 thousand people, but it should be able to hold maybe 10 times that once we get it back to full strength. We've currently got about 2000 people living there or so, almost all soliders.

>>25526767
>>25526770

>expecting realism from D&D
>Year of our Lord Two Thousand and Thirteen
>etc

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>>25526767
Probably a combination of poor sense of scale, plus us not having any reliable contacts. Another reason I'd like to set up an intel network. How does one become a Spy Master?

>>25526780
Keep in mind that in a medieval setting you can't have an urban population, most of your people are going to be out in the fields providing for your town.

>>25526719
starts as a group of adveturers get tied up in the politics of a petty kingdom on the edge of a large very old and very evil empire. great great chars, . lots of eldrich sorcery and general myschivous dickery by powerful mages with there own ends . dont want to give too much because damn is it a fun read. lots of insight into the dirty side of war and politics though, and plenty of how to fuck with more powerful enimies without rising high enough on there meters to just get wiped out too.

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>>25526789
I'll expect a semblance of realism or at least internal consistency from any and all games.

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>>25526794
Right on. I was just looking it up, is it a series of short stories? Should I got for one of the Omnibuses?

>>25526802

realism is not the same thing as internal consistency, and stating shit like >>25526793
is just stupid when we don't know the assumptions the GM is running the world on, whether he's considered economics at all, or if he's just using standard D&D conditions that are internally inconsistant (like why people even bother farming when it's easy as fuck to conjure food and a couple wizards can feed a kingdom).

>>25526809
>Omnibuses?
Is that a fancy word for demonic dickgirls?

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>>25526850
Probably. But then what's the plural of omnibus?

>>25526850
CoC please go

(An omnibus is a book containing several novels, usually of a set.)

>>25526809
definately, there are i think 3 omnibi*(Omnibuses?) in total a very very engaging read.

>>25526859
Turns out both Omnibuses and Omnibi are correct.

Source: Wiktionary

>>25526822
If you assume basic d&d conditions wizard and cleric spells are usually not enough to summon enough food for a city under siege, let alone an entire region, plus the material components are usually as expensive or more expensive than just making it normally.
For example create food and water in pathfinder is a 3rd level spell that might feed three households if you stretch it out.

Look all I'm saying is that 20 million is basically the total combined militaries of the modern world, with the modern world massive population and economies to draw troops from and to support the military infrastructures.

"Magic" explaining that away is dumb because if your wizard has the power to do that he could also do things like Kill Everything Not Us With Magic. Or just invade everyone at once. Those numbers are just not feasible at all.

If true numbers in setting? OP your defense plan is to send the wizard a stream of fine whores and wines.

>>25527062
Added up the active duty military numbers of the world from a quick grab from wiki. Just shy of 21 million. And the biggest country has a bit over 2 million.

Magic is going to have to explain its shit, it seems.

>tfw Paizo will never release another Kingmaker style Adventure Path

>>25530158
They do have Greenwood still working on stuff for them tho.

>>25526667

Now can we get a Rough map/explanation of the surrounding environments and biomes?

What is the state of your fortifications? If the Rakshasa or mercenaries try to siege you, you need strong walls. Perhaps you should use some of your gold to create a quarry in the surrounding mountains that will provide stone for reinforcing your walls or building new ones. If you're strapped for workers, just use the orcs.

>>25526391
war economy = false economy

>Hitler is not some kind of saturday morning cartoon villain.
Um, you sure?

>>25531077
Alright, here we go. 9000 hours in paint.

It's basically a modified version of the Greyhawk map. We still don't know a whole lot, especially about the eastern lands.

>>25532637
The city is built into the mountain kinda Minas Tirith style. The wall is mostly repaired with stone we shipped in across the lake. The gate was broken down in the taking of the city, but we're repairing it with wood from the forest, and iron also shipped in. Hopefully we'll be good, the last session ended with a crazy many-form Druid at the head of an animal army heading our way.

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>>25533684
aaaaand the image.

>>25533694
That doesn't give you a lot of room to expand or work with, without expanding into Mercenary land. My suggestion is to get to work on producing something really useful the mercenaries will want, so you can trade freely up the rivers and gain access to the sea.

My suggestion is high quality weapons and armor.

In the meantime, become a refugee state, take in as many people as you can accommodate, and dig in so attacking you us a losing population

>>25533846
*proposition, sorry, got distracted.

>>25533846
>>25533860
you'll also want to explore back into those mountains and make any back routes the Rakasha's could make to get into your valley by land into death traps, and look for resources you can use.

>>25533846
Yeah, essentially. Of course, we don't have actual copies of the map just yet, so this is just a general outline.

We do have a forge set up with a dwarven blacksmith and two apprentices. What with how fucked a lot of the nations are, I think becoming a safe haven shouldn't be too hard.

>>25533694
There's a ton more of Oerth if you're feeling adventurous.

It sucks that I am ruined for these kinds of threads, as strategic planning and execution are a significant part of my IRL job. (The reality can taste pretty dry to most roleplayers.)

>>25537290
oh come on, it can't be all that bad. just take your best shot and we'll help you.

>>25537290
I feel the same, although I am retired now. That's one thing I find doesn't translate well into the virtual space, is that face-to-face interaction that so handily diverts alienation into expansion.

>>25537290
I think it can work with the right amount of abstraction.

For instance, our DM isn't going to all us what species of corn we want to plant and compare it to the bone and so on. But if we fail to secure a source of water during sieges, that's probably going to come into play.

I guess it's just dependent on the group. For instance, the DM for this thread is a theater actor who grew up with DnD. He's got a solid gaming core, but he's more than willing to make rules up on the spot to better serve the narrative.

>>25539183
Dammit phone. Meant to say the DM isn't going to make us choose species of corn, then compare it to how arid the land is and so on. Unless we really ask for it, there's usually a certain depth we keep things at.