They'll be making contact with someone pretty soon after warp no matter what. So far as I can tell the Star Trek universe is REALLY densely populated. Frankly it's a bit odd that whatever the Vulcan's called their proto prime directive was never violated by anyone else given what we've seen of other races but such is star trek writing. In any case, the two other major possibilities that are in my head for first contact are Andorians and Romulans... Andorians might not actually change a whole lot (they always come off to me as quite a bit more similar to humanity than Vulcans) while Romulan contact is going to butterfly everything and I can't imagine it going well at all.

Does the Romulan Empire even have other races in it? Other than the Rema's I can't think of any.

Romulan First contact would not go well at all.

>>25081331
It would, however, probably go badly in a very interesting fashion.

Assuming that humanity survives, of course.

did the romulans have warp? i don't remember if the vulcans did or not.

>>25081419
everybody whose important has warp in the star trek universe. The romulans are an offshoot of the vulcans anyway. First contact with romulans might be messy, depends on how long until the vulcans get winf of it and "intervene"

>>25081419

Vulcans did have warp. The colony ships that the Rihannsu took on the long pilgrimage did not.

>>25081106
>>25081302
Romulan first contact is unlikely due to distance. As for other species, it is hardly spoken on but with most empires the few they have are subjugated and kept to one world.

Part of what made the federation a powerhouse capable of holding off multiple empires was that the federation offered membership, full rights, and members continued to expand. This allowed them 150 member worlds at full production, as opposed to the next largest empire's 24 broken and oppressed worlds.

>>25081495
Hm... is there anybody interesting nearby Earth, then?

Without outside assistance, Earth will have to recover from the last war all on its own. If, despite using warp drive, humans don't make contact with any alien species for a decade or two after the first flight of the Phoenix, Earth culture might develop very differently from how it did in canon.

Perhaps this is how something like the alternate universe Terran Empire developed. Without Vulcan influence, humans pull themselves up by their bootstraps yet again, and their warlike streak is never dampened. When they finally do meet aliens, Earth is undergoing widespread reconstruction, rival human factions are all making use of warships with warp drive, and each and every one of those factions is jumping at the chance to use a brand-new alien ally to crush everyone else and secure uncontested rule over humanity.

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I think first contact with the Andorians would have been the next most likely.

Considering what happened to the Remans, the Romulans may use the humans as slave labour and soldiers. I could easily see them using the far faster breeding humans as meat shields for their armies. I imagine that quite a few young Romulan generals would gain a name for themselves winning a particularly tough battle combining human numbers and Romulan intelligence.

A possible major difference in the Star Trek Timeline could be a Reman Empire, the Remans and humans combining to overthrow their Romulan masters.

>>25081522
Vulcans. Tellarites. Andorians. Saurians. A whole ton of Rigellians with three sapients sharing the system. Originally Alpha Centauri inexplicably had humans and first contact was with them.

>>25081557

i remember the enterprise mirror universe starting out with first contact much similar to ST: first contact, but instead of the humans greeting the vulcans, they beat the shit out of them and stole their tech. Then they proceeded to assrape the vulcans.

>>25081589

wouldn't the vulcans have stepped in at some point? they were holding the roms back prior to first contact.

>>25081627
The romulans were stopped by distance. A romulan conquest of humanity would require them skipping Vulcan to use earth as a foothold, tough to do when you don't know it exists, or conquering everything on the way to earth.

>>25081609

Tellarite first contact would have been interesting. The Vulkans started off with Live Long and Prosper. The Tellarites would probably start off with insulting the planet and calling humans a bunch of monkey fuckers.

>>25081718
If this happened, Earth would probably just get really pissed at the aliens. They're already barely recovering from a horrible war, and the first aliens they meet insult them. We'll pull themselves up by their boostraps, as we always do, and then we'd probably go and kick their asses.

Basically Tellarite first contact would turn us into typical H:FY wank.

>>25081612
I normally could not care less about alternate history stuff but I enjoyed that series.

>>25081762
And then the Andorians see us wrecking Tellarite shit and join in. Andorians become the bros that show us the stars.

...and the second automated romulan fleet quietly annexed Vulcan as they remain without military allies.

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>>25081609

Good ol' Spaceflight Chronology, I fucking LOVED that book as a kid.

That said why do we need some universe altering idea for a Star Trek campaign? Why can't you just put it on a Cruiser (any time period) off exploring strange new worlds?

>>25081892
Because default Trek canon is kind of boring for adventuring in. It's much more interesting to put it in a universe where things went a little bit less than perfectly.

>>25081892

an alternative history in this case would make it more exciting for the players because they wouldn't be able to default to the series canon, but still understand the universe in some sense.

Human development may of actually been faster without the Vulcans, they were the ones holding back Starfleet from developing their faster Warp engines only because they liked to see things move nice, slow and careful. They surely interfered in a lot of other things as well. We'd probably have a faster developing, more militarized Starfleet or at the very least, some sort of UN Spacey analog. On the other hand, reaching space and finding it full of assholes without the Vulcans there to hold our hands, we may end up like the Romulans or Cardasians in disposition, highly suspicious of everything and very secretive.

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>>25081909
>boring for adventuring in

I seriously cannot understand this at all. WHY? I mean there is a whole galaxy out there to explore! You don't need to change the universe to find out what didn't happen on screen. You don't even need to really change the timeline to have interesting periods.

Like the first half the of the 24 century, the age when the Excelsior and Ambassador class were in their prime and all sorts of new stuff was being introduced (the phaser array, TNG style replicators instead of materials fabricators and food sequencers, holodecks, isolinear-based computers replacing duotronics,etc). You've also got conflicts that were mentioned but never really shown on screen or detailed like the conflict with the Romulans that lead to the Treaty of Algeron, the Sheliak conflict, the Cardassian War, etc).

I just see no need to change events BEFORE the campaign start, but the players might end up changing the future, that is cool.

Heck, the late 2290s to 2250s are a really loose area of canon that one could do all sorts of things in. Even the movie era.

>>25082022
It's boring because Trek is populated by pacifistic, perfect human beings and going around being enlightened at everyone and generally never having any personal problems.

You need to have an imperfect world to adventure in, a world where people occasionally get hurt, or nothing happens.

That said, you're right, there's a lot of room for stuff like that in a TOS-era universe.

>>25082022
>isolinear-based computers replacing duotronics
I see two ship engineers screaming at each other at the top of their lungs and waving fists around, basically having an Apple vs PC fight over the two technologies

>>25081987
Vulcans limiting human tech is an Enterprise retcon and probably temporal Cold War dickery. Originally, Cochrane gave the vulcans improved warp tech, further securing our alliance.

>>25082077

I really feel like the core of Star Trek is flawed people aspiring to be better. I think that's something you can explore in any Star Trek era and in any canon universe. The point is to have people aren't perfect, but are striving to be better.

>>25082142
That's a fairly good appraisal, actually. Star Trek is about human possibility- flawed people, trying to be better. It's especially like that in context, when you look at how utopian and fairly radical it was in stuff like race relations and political attitudes compared to those IRL at the time.

Sorry about being a bit pissy; I just saw Into Darkness and I need to re-watch some old Star Treks to remind myself of what they were actually like.

>>25082117
The original Cochrane, not the deadbeat alcoholic, the heroic muscle bound Man of Science who flew off to live on a barren rock with his alien cloud wifu who granted him immortality in exchange for regularly scheduled dickings. For Science.

star trek needs more grimdark

>>25082253
thats not the point of star trek. Infact, its the opposite.

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>>25082077

Perfect human beings? Maybe in some of TNG, but DS9 and TOS were much more "human".

Heck even in TNG the only "perfect" people were the Enterprise crew, how many corrupt and/or evil/mistaken starfleet officer's showed up?

I mean O'Brien's old captain takes his whole ship renegade on a revenge plot against the Cardassians, Admiral Mark Jameson solved a hostage crisis by GIVING THE TERRORISTS GUNS (plunging a planet into 40 years of civil war), then there is the whole conspiracy in Star Trek VI to prevent a peace between the Federation and Klingons and start a war, involving some pretty high-ranking Federation Officers.

Oh and there is also that thing Sisko did with the Romulans.

Humanity is hardly perfect.

how about an alternate timeline where the enterprise d crew were unable to rescue picard and earth was assimilated. could be a timeline where the remnants of the federation are on the run, fighting the borg, etc.

>>25082249
He was always an old human from a flawed era when he made warp drive. Cleaning himself up and becoming the immortal dude was always post warp. What the movie First Contact changed was his origin as an Alpha Centauri human developing warp and kick starting the "what is with such human aliens" mystery in Star Trek.

>>25082253
Grimdark is shit.

>>25082077
Not every Human in space is a member of Starfleet.

Once you realize this, space gets a whole lot more interesting

>>25082253
>Completely forgetting DS9

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>>25082350

Heck, some are downright awful.

>>25082362
Why would you watch DS9 when you can watch B5 instead?

>>25082350
Yes and no, the Federation, at least in TNG era, seems to turn a blind eye in regards to the Prime Directive when long lost and forgotten Human settlements are found and will interfere like crazy, even if they're pre-warp. Also it seems Picard absolutely hates dealing with these people.

An example, Picard rescues a group of luddite Irish Stereotypes and dumps them on a completely separate clone based civilization while condemning their cloning for survival. They sure as hell didn't have warp tech. Compare to larger civilizations Picard was perfectly happy to let die in a fire.

>>25082445
Despite similar setups, both shows are way different.

>>25081557>>25081557
>>25081557
>>25081557

wait wait wait WAIT....so humanity fuck yea!...with phasers? FUCK YEA!!

>>25082475
True. One is good, and the other is VERY good.

>>25082486
Trek- especially TOS- is already Humanity: Fuck Yeah. It's just different from the H:FY you're used to, because it's not about going Fuck Yeah! over killing the shit out of everything.

Honestly I like Trek's H:FY much better than /tg/'s.

>>25082472
I was speaking specifically of Human Colonists from Earth, or freelancers like Mudd or Kassidy Yates

>>25082506
It's like White Man's Burden. But in a good way.

OP, if you're about, have you decided upon any outside forces that are hostile to the earth? Or did you plan on using the star trek races?

Serious question: What happens if the star trek earth's first contact is with elder things, insects from shaggai, or fungi from yuggoth?

Humanity fuck yeah with phasers....

>...and tentacles?

>>25082492
All those B5 filler episodes tho

>>25082524
Speaking of which, how exactly do you get your hands on a ship without joining Starfleet? It's not like you can buy one.

>>25082526

I was planning on using star trek races already available, but the geopolitical environment is different. Maybe different tech, different alliances, but it would be human centered.

maybe have it so where if the vulcans weren't the species of first contact, humanity would have been cold to them and an alliance would never have formed.

>>25082598
Just remember Byron. Everyone loves Byron. He's the smartest and bestest telepath leader of all time and everyone wants to be his friend but he's secretly got a dark soul and suffers for his fellow telepaths.

>>25082506
call me an uncultured or ignornant spawn of a grognard, but my exposure to science fiction unlike most of the trekies I know began not with star trek, star wars or babylon 5 but instead with serenity, stargate, the orphanage novels, and the inheritance trilogy by ian douglass...so maybe I just need to take some time and expose myself to that other kind of humanity fuck yea....In a semi related note dose the federation have a formalized military? or is it just made up of science vessels that throw down when need be? again my star trek journey really more or less started with this thread, though I have seen bits and pieces of movies and a few episodes of the TNG

>>25082525
how can that ever be a good thing?

>>25082650
If you decide you wanted to go more traditional humanity fuck yeah with it, the experience of having to build themselves all the way back up all by themselves (which would definitely produce different technical output), could have rendered them more imperium like and resulted in a social structure a bit more like the military-centric aspects of the klingons.

>>25082642
hmmmm steal it?

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>>25082642

There is still "money". The Federation probably makes sure you won't starve or be homeless. But all that replicator energy has a cost involved and it certainly isn't "unlimited". IIRC there is one episode of TNG where the enterprise has to replicate a shit ton of some plot device and Geordi specifically tells the captain "hey we aren't gonna be able to use the warp drive while replicating all this crap."

Also in TOS and the TOS Movies ill-defined "credits" are mentioned.

>>25082642
There are plenty of civilian ships out there. The Federation has some sort of economic system to determine if you need a ship, and there are plenty of other economies out there people can participate in.

>>25082687
I could almost imagine that causing their tech to follow an entirely different path...think chopsticks vs forks same job entirely different idea...they might have even stuck with kinetic weaponry...or developed IDK drone warfare/exploration based carriers?

>>25082707
wasn't there specificly an episode where they unfreeze some guy and say there IS NOT ANYMORE MONEY?

>>25082737
I believe the name of the episode is "Mirror Mirror", in TOS, in which kirk is sent to an alternate reality where the federation is a hostile empire. You might want to look into that.

TOS was more like a western in space. It was all 'humanity fuck yeah' but the frontier was wild and lawless. TNG and the rest didn't have this atmosphere, the political environment was more controlled.

>>25082642
Use a replicator and a database. Build your own. And fly those orange triangles or brown rectangle everyone gets.

>>25082772
...western in space...not firefly..your doing it wrong

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>>25082758

Yes, but c'mon man, at the very least there are still things with value, like land and stuff you can't replicate (like dilithium).

Why does Sisko's dad get to own and operate a restaurant on Earth? Where space is presumably at a premium, especially when they don't want to overcrowd and shit up the planet (again).

>>25082853

it was moreso one than TNG, etc. That's my point. TOS setting was lawless outside the solar system.

>>25082642
You're probably granted a civilian trade ship after receiving the proper education for it, or by dealing with authorities who are not Starfleet but are still reputable and within the Federation, like some Rigellian shipping corp.

Also, after contact with the Ferengi, the Federation recognized the value of gold-pressed latinum and uses it for trading abroad. Could be that a guy on some border world or trade hub saved up enough to quite simply purchase one.

>>25082857
hmmmm what if the "currency" is skill, Sisko's dad gets to own and operate a restaurant on earth because he is so good at it?

>>25082768
Then in DS9 Kira and Bashir end up there and the Terran Empire went peaceful and collapsed in the intermediate period, and the Cardassians and Klingons allied and conquered them.

So you are you, and one day you get sick and go to a hospital and that's all you remember. Suddenly you're being resuscitated by strange people in colorful jumpsuits. You're in the future, awoken from medical cryostasis. The French captain absolutely hates you and wishes you had stayed dead. Several members of the command staff think you're as bad as Hitler simply fom being from the 20th/21st century. The ones that don't treat you like a retarded child because you don't understand most of what they take for granted yet they have tremendous lapses in what you consider common sense and security. You obviously have no family living. This has happened in a TNG episode once already, so it's entirely plausible to happen again. What happens to you? Presumably you're automatically classified as a Fed citizen. Do they give you forced re-education? Do you get housing or do they ditch you on Earth and let you fall through the cracks. Surely there is no office for dealing with this kind of situation. Are you even allowed to join Starfleet? At best they're going to stick you in a museum to give speeches about the "eugenics war" and the nightmares of living with an economy. Maybe they'll just give you a mop and go back to calling you a caveman behind your back.

>>25082666
Starfleet is the reverse of what real world militaries are. The peacetime benefits of a military are star fleets primary mission, with war being the secondary.

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>>25082772

This can probably be blamed, at least in part, on improvements in FTL Communications. Kirk couldn't always radio back for orders or advice.

Then again, Picard usually didn't do that either.

>>25082887

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Marx would be proud.

>>25082758
There are precious metals and some forms of accepted currency, but the guy you're talking about (the TNG episode where they unfroze a bunch of people from the 80s, I think? One was an investment banker) was talking specifically about the form money took in 20th-21st centuries United States, where it was more of an abstract term for rags-to-riches, buying on margin, buy low sell high, making it rain, etc., etc. The UFP as far as I can tell rejected much of the capitalist ideals and substituted it with a combination of socialism, bartering, and a kind of meritocracy, where the more you contributed to the Federation, the more you had.

>>25082707
In Star Trek Online (I know its not exactly canon, but it works.) Credits are further defined as Energy Credits. They're traded for replicator use.

>>25082857
I got the feeling that the restaurant had been in the family for a very long time, over several generations. Then again, he could just literally be running it out of his house, having the whole downstairs renovated for customers while he lives in the small upstairs rooms.

>>25082924
ok, but would a organization like that not get easily steam rolled by a "full time" military..also I don't understand how that would remove the need in wartime for vessels designed with warfare in mind...or are all of their vessels this and simply perform science missions in the down time?

There's one major thing I never understood about Star Trek.

See, by most estimates, something like the Enterprise weighs 900,000 metric tons. And the impulse engines can push it at something like 0.2c - 0.3c. If you do the math on this, you get about 1.668×10^24 joules of kinetic energy.

Well, this comes out to a helluva relativistic weapon- if you crash, say, the Enterprise into Earth at full impulse, you get a boom of 360 TERATONS - nearly 5 times bigger than the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs. And that's not even counting the antimatter- that's just raw kinetic energy.

Basically, every single Federation starship happens to double as a doomsday device capable of killing everyone on a planet.

What are the political ramifications of having all of these starships around, and why doesn't anyone ever do this? What stops crazy people from getting a hold of a starship, and/or what stops a starship from doing this?

Basically, what stops my players from thinking of this?

Why is there ever only one guy controlling all the ship guns? There should be one per phaser bank so they can target and track multiple shit at once.

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>>25082666

Starfleet IS a military, as much as they (or Gene) sometimes don't want to admit it. One of their primary duties is guarding the safety, security and sovereignty of the Federation.

The difference is that it is but one aspect of the organization. They are NOT soldiers, they are explorers, but they are damned well able to defend themselves if forced to.

Hell your average federation "Exploration Cruiser" is well armed and very well shielded to "prepare for unexpected hazards". They're also damn durable, if only because of all that "Extraneous" stuff helping soak up fire.

The Galaxy class was built as an exploration ship, but they Federation turns around and uses them as massive sledgehammers during the Dominion war, using formations of 3 Galaxies called "Galaxy Wings".

>>25083012
It never goes into detail, but in most of the wars (Dominion, Cardassian ect) Either The federation suffers substantial loses or they ally with the Klingon and don't take as much. While UFP ships are more conservative in regard to weapons what they do have it pretty powerful. As well their ships can take a great beating due to good structural design and powerful shields

>>25083052
The computer really does most of the extra work. What the actual tactical/weapons officer does is pretty minimal.

>>25083029
The dish gives them lift, so they glide gracefully like in Generations or that Voyager Episode where they nosedive into a planet and end up skiing through the mountains on the ship's belly.

>>25082666

Starfleet didn't originally have dedicated military vessels. However, eventually nasty aliens kicked their shit enough times they produced a few dedicated warships (i.e. the Defiant). In general, though, they're peacekeepers and explorers

>>25083012
You're starting to get it. Consider the old constitution class was a planet killer, capable of carrying out general order 24 by itself.

One on one its a match for any warship, while still carrying laboratories. It's not a huge stretch from current military ships. It's just a change in emphasis. Further, the many uses of tools like the phaser and deflector dish, being more than just weapons in the precision they can work.

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>>25083012
Starfleet is primarily a scientific body, but the majority of their ships are heavily armed and shielded, according to their size and crew load. The Enterprise-D was the Flagship of the Federation, and had around 3000 crew and passengers, since many officers opted to bring their families. It was the most heavily armed ship in the fleet, but it spent most of its voyage spending weeks at a time examining proto-stars and conducting surveys in deep space, off screen.
That was the case with most ships. Apply as many weapons as reasonably possible, same with shielding. Make sure everyone comes out alive if possible, and if shit hits the fan, we're prepared for war.

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>>25083096
The Intrepid classis also pretty rare in that it was designed to be able to land on a planet at all.

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>>25083029

Because thats injecting too much reality into the series probably. Sure you can stick a warp drive on a rock and slam it into a planet at warp 1 (Speed of light), but I guess the writers feel thats boring compared to doomsday devices like the Genesis Device.

Why haven't we ever heard from that tech again? Even if it failed as a terraforming system, its a hideous weapon of mass destruction you'd think the Breen or Romulans or SOMEONE would like to get their hands on.

>>25083029
>>25083146

I never realized they'd actually acknowledged that a Constitution-class ship was a planet killer. That helps, and also helps remind me that the Federation is secretly badass.

And I guess that large-scale terrorism just wasn't invented yet in the 60s.

>>25083029
The controlled and disciplined defense forces reducing a derelict vessel to atoms or less if a threat is presented.

Also scales and hard numbers are not accurate, it is soft scifi.

>>25083159
And Jem-Hadar ships still easily destroyed one.

>>25083052
One guy can target and track multiple ships. The interface is that good. If its really too tough for just him then two guys can man it from different consoles.

>>25083194
Fair enough. I always feel uncomfortable telling players that "you can't do that because physics doesn't actually work", but I can always just start throwing the defense-forces thing and some technobabble at them. Like some deeply built-in feature of the warp core that will blow up the ship if you're moving too quickly towards a gravity well or something.

>>25083186

IIRC, it was powered by the Omega Molecule. Researching Omega Molecules tends to result in you, the moon your base was on, and the planet your moon was orbiting getting blown the fuck up. And not in a useful way, either, since it would be easier and cheaper to launch a shit-ton of antimatter at a planet than to build an Omega Molecule research facility there.

After the first few times they lost all research because it got blown the fuck up, interest would have gone down.

>>25083254

Isn't it canon that you can't go to warp from within a gravity well? That, combined with saying "impulse engines are fast, but just rocket-fast, not c-fractional fast" and "warp is a momentum-less drive, so when you come out, you're moving the same speed as when you went in" prevent planet-killing.

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>>25083191

Well, in one episode, the Enterprise uses its ship phasers to stun a city block. I imagine at full power a few phaser vollies could level a city. And just imagine what the matter/anti-matter warheads of photon torpedos would do in an atmosphere.

>>25083205

By ramming it. Also the polaron weaponry was nothing the Federation had ever encountered before, they modified their shields to work better against it afterwards.

>>25083186
For one, all data on Genesis was destroyed with the Reliant, and the only memory of it was in Carol and David Marcus, the latter being murdered.

A quarantine zone kept aftermath data from being collected until the world destabilized and destroyed itself.

Several dozen episodes of the original series.
http://www.startrek.com/videos/star-trek-the-original-series

>>25083205
That's because the Federation hadn't encountered phased polaron weaponry before. It neutralized the Odyssey's shields, killed their torpedoes and their port nacelle. They were left with no defenses and were picked apart.
Eventually they overcame phased polarons, it just took losing a Galaxy-class.

>>25082362
Even DS9 at its lowest is still NobleBright

>>25082311
TNG wasn't about being perfect humans its about trying to be your best.

>>25082525
Ironically the Prime Directive is about trying to stop that

>>25083221
I imagine the Phaser array targeter is similar to playing Fruit Ninja

>>25083297
Even before that it was basically crippled, and their phaser banks mostly ineffective.

>>25083285
I wasn't talking about warp; I was talking about impulse, which is canonically c-fractional fast. Saying that "it actually isn't" solves a lot of problems, though.
It's actually physically realistic that warp doesn't change your velocity- it effectively works on the same principle as the real-life Alcubierre metric, enhanced with some technobabble, and that doesn't really change your velocity either.

>>25083337
at first i laughed

and then i cried

>>25083297
One episode (where Data meets is "mother")
They use them to drill to a planets core

>>25083254
Actually, if trying to warp into something, the warped space is pretty much circumventing relativity and makes a warp impact hit as hard as a sublight impact. It's that one percent C full impulse that is devastating.

Also, the ships typically do not carry stores of antimatter. Antimatter is produced by converters as needed. Charging or storing antiparticles is for specialist functions and applications.

>>25083303
>For one, all data on Genesis was destroyed with the Reliant

I have trouble believing that. But its possible.

Though I do remember Khan giving enterprise an ultimatum to transmit data on Genesis.

>>25083353

yup, you're just shoving 'space' behind you from in front of you.

>>25083396
Wide-spread ship phasers could also stun an entire city.

AN.... ALIEN FORCE.... HAS TAKEN OVER.... THIS THREAD...

>old, tired, exhausted captain kirk

>>25083347

They also mentioned that the Dominion Polaron weapons were nothing they'd encountered before.

Subsequent ships fared a LOT better, indicating the Federation overcame whatever allowed it to basically ingnore the Odyssey's shields.

>>25083337
Me too!

Not really but I do imagine a smooth touch screen.

>>25083407
All of the practical, actual production data was on Regula I's databanks, which were transferred to a portable unit and beamed down with the prototype unit to Stage 2. Khan hadn't found that yet.

Theres a site called "memory alpha" thats like wikipedia but only covers star trek stuff.

>>25083205
By Ramming it
and the whole weapons that passed threw the shields
During the full war, wend the feds this that shield problem the Galaxy Class were one ship armadas

>>25083448
Either way they Worf'd a Galaxy class the show off the new danger.

>>25083491
>>25083407
I would to guess they abandoned the project wend it figure that the first two assholes to hear about it went straight to get it and use it as a weapon

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>>25083491

It just makes no sense to me that you'd keep all data pertaining to a vital research project ON SITE. For exactly the reason of losing it all in a single disaster

Haven't they heard of backups?

>>25083582
And that the only reason it worked at all was the protomatter in the matrix that David Marcus kluged in, which was also why it destroyed itself so fast. Instant terraforming isn't very useful if the planet's gone a few years later.

>>25083029
hmmm aside from the whole kamikaze bit?...I guess at minimum the political ramification would be that everyone has them...I mean if you start throwing ships at planets you end up with the star trek equivalent of what nobody wanted to happen during the cold war right?

Incidentally, a quick rough analysis says that the Enterprise, colliding with Earth at full impulse, would make a crater 31 miles wide, and 11 miles deep- enough to punch through the crust. The fireball produced would be almost 100 miles across, and the resulting earthquake would be 10.1 on the Richter scale. If it hits Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco, the blast will shatter windows in New York. More than 600 cubic miles of rock are thrown into the air, and cover huge swathes of land.

And this isn't even counting the imminent Bad Stuff from puncturing the crust.

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>>25083582

True, I'm sure the political fallout of the Federation having been discovered developing such a "weapon" (as anyone else would view it) was massive.

>>25083585
You clearly haven't watched enough Star Trek. Their computers are so reliable that they don't need to recover data!

Even when it's a plot point all the time!

>>25083582
Terraforming (the real theoretical science) takes an extremely long time (centuries). I suspect that even in star trek's era its considered a long range solution at best, and impractical in the short term. However, a character called "The traveler*" said that at some point in the -very- distant future, humans become bodiless energy beings.

* - an energy being from Tau Alpha Ceti.

>>25083585
The enterprise had some data on it too.

But the project was a failure as the thing that made it work, protomatter, was unstable and made it fall apart.

>>25083159
>3k crew
>families
>science facilities
And then a fleet of ships with ALL space dedicated to armor, shielding, engines, and guns come along, with smaller crews, hulls, and resource needs for more ships of equal or better ability in combat.

They'd still get steamrolled.

If first contact hadn't occurred, I would imagine humanity would have had it's own government, encountered some local alien species, and had started trade. Most of the powers in the galaxy (romulans, etc) wouldn't have paid much attention. Humans may have colonized stuff, but the federation would have been all fractured into various alien governments.

Humans would have continued to have money, capitalism, etc. I guess a campaign would be vastly lower tech.

>>25083073
THATS ANOTHER THING...look at those tiny stalks connecting the ship to its engines...I mean that seems like a pretty serious design weakness no? would it be that difficult to disable a ship like that by simply removing its forward section from its engines?

>>25083695
Star ships are made of a fictional -extremely strong- alloy. Its not as big a weakness as you think.

>>25083678
All the data they had was proposal files, Kirk had to guess what stage they were at.

>>25083706
Yeah, by the time you're losing those little fiddly bits you're pretty screwed regardless. If the phasor arrays have gotten that close, you've already lost.

>>25083159
and also what do they do with all the kids on these ships in times of war? I would assume drop them off at home and fill their beds with combat crew right?

>>25083695
The nacelles don't actually provide propulsion, they generate the warp field around the ship.

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>>25083159

3000 crew? What? The Ent-D had about a thousand people.

>>25083695

You're over thinking it. Rule of Cool trumps realism in Star Trek.

Besides, look at the klingon ships, they sure love their thin necked designs, and they're the resident warrior race!

>>25083728
Theoretically, doctrin for a Galaxy-class was to put all non-combat personnel in the saucer, separate, and fly the drive section into combat.

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>>25083695
Design flaw?
I think they consider the ship separating into chunks a feature!

>>25083733
>3000 crew AND passengers

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>>25083728

IIRC it was specifically mentioned that Odyssey dropped off all civilians and non-essential personel at DS9 before going off into the Gamma Quadrant to investigate the Dominion (since they knew the job was dangerous as fuck).

That was also what the point of the whole Saucer separation sequence was supposed to be, Saucer stays safe while the stardrive section (which has the lion's share of the ship's firepower) does all the fighting.

They just didn't use it due to budget reasons during TNG.

>>25083254
You could also try and reason out some kind of defense system that most planets would have at least tried to establish? I mean at minimum they would have "rocks with warp drives" with which to intercept your ships right?

>>25083771

I'm pretty sure the 1000 person number was with all the civilians on board.

>>25083285
who says you have to come out of warp drive to hit the planet?

>>25083706
>>25083695
Don't forget all the comparisons of Star Trek vessels to real life vessels, supposedly with the same or worse weaknesses.

The ships in Star Trek are fine.

>>25083728
Right.

>>25083347
...I will only ever see it this way...damn you

>>25083396
so phasers are just kind of the swiss army knife of space ?

>>25083853
Pretty much

>>25083802
Hitting the planet while the thing that makes relativity go away is active also eliminated the impact.

>>25083853
Pretty much. Disruptors are more powerful, but far less flexible. Riker's transporter clone even made some metal-melt artwork with one.

>>25083803
>real life vessels
Real life military vessels do not waste space with massive science sections, housing for family and passengers, or have needle-thing connecting spans.

they dedicate enough space to living area for most crew to hot bunk, a handful of spaces to recreation so the crew doesn't commit suicide, and use ever available bit of remaining space for weapons, communications, the engine, more weapons,and electronics used for detection, targeting, and coms.

The only wasted space is that set aside for officers, and even that is spartan compared ot starfleets poor use of space.

>>25083853
They're very similar to a laser, and can probably do most of the things a laser can do, though they are primarily a weapon, not a tool, as far as I know.

>>25083640
I love math/science
fags

>>25083913
Larger surface vessels don't hot bunk. It's mostly the submarines that do that.

>>25083652
not sure if related but somebody once suggested a super long term method of terraforming mars by creating millions of biodomes and than simultaenously shattering said domes...bullshit right?

>>25083913
They also don't spent years on mission so real world ship designs are really impractical for Starfleet purposes.

>>25083913
I am talking about calling shit like "the spindly sections" thicker than wings a design flaw. Or the bridge on top and visible being a design flaw despite real ships and planes doing it worse.

>>25083951
Yes, Nothing to hold it in

>>25083681
my thought exactly

>>25083695
I think that's meant to be a safety feature, in case something goes wrong with the engines you can eject them easily that way.
Also not every ship has the nacelles on stalks, the Miranda and Defiant classes come immediately to mind.

>>25083706
but...antimatter torpedos?

>>25082666
Most of the older starfleet hulls are basically science vessel/cruise ships with defensive systems but as the series and canon has gone on starfleet's ships have become more and more militarised. By the time of DS9 the federation were making combat starships, especially with the Defiant class which was designed only to kill.

>>25083978
Is actually the standard photon torpedo.

>>25083951
You'd need atmospheric gas production plants to run for a loooooong time, then you'd disperse primitive plants into the biomass of the world for a long time, then plants would grow and evolve for a loooong time, and, assuming you did things exactly correctly and the chemical balances of the atmosphere were exactly just so, life would be possible.

>long time - probably hundreds of years

>>25083755
epic..for some reason I much prefer this version. Anyway I guess if it is something included with a purpose than I withdraw my comment

>>25083979
By the time of the Defiant dev, they had just finally realized there were threats out there they couldn't just throw more ships at, like what happened at Wolf 359.

Then they got distracted when the Defiant project was too "aggressive" and they'd forgotten about how bad the Borg were.

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>>25083913

Galaxies were the only federation ship designed to have lots of civilian families on board, and I think even in universe it was considered a failed experiment. The Enterprise-E and other later starfleet ships sure don't seem to be built for civilians.

>>25083978
I don't know enough about science to be much help here, but what I do know is that matter and antimatter annihilate on contact with each other. Imagine every atomic core in your ship's material structure splitting and detonating without warning. Thats what matter/antimatter contact would do.

>>25083953
>don't spend years on missions
They're fully capable of it. And no, stafleet designs are impractical for starfleet purposes-they waste space and try to be too many things at once.

You want warships? build warships.
you want a roving silicon valley with a handful of guns to deter assholes? Build it. But don't send it to war.

But don't try and say you can do both equally well. You can't.

>>25083958
>real planes
>worse
Real planes NEED wings, and cannot be too heavy or they won't fly.
Real ships exist in an era where the human eye cannot yet be fully replaced with cameras, and boarding actions are still a real thing, and the enemy CAN'T just teleport onto the bridge- they have to fight up a tower.

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>>25084065

I doubt the Federation would give them funding to build two entire different fleets.

Also you're just over-thinking and nitpicking this way too much. They couldn't tell the stories they want to tell if the ships were ONLY explorers or ONLY warships. So they aren't.

How about nitpicking the tendency to send some of the most senior officers on the ship on away missions instead of a team of (relatively expendable) specialists trained specifically for such situations?

>>25084065
>They're fully capable of it.


The ships themselves are the problems are from the physiological limitations on the crews what the lack of personal space and recreational facilities.

>Okay you guys the Romulans are kicking our ass all over the place, we need a new wunderwaffe
>I've got it hear me out on this
>what if we made a really super tough ship
>but to attack it splits up into a bunch of tiny 1HP modules that can easily but shot down
>BRILLIANT!

>>25084170
And the Defiant is a perfect example of what a federation warship is. Six pulse phaser cannons, a couple banks, torp launchers, impulse engines too big for the ship, and doubled-up quarters with wall-inset bunks.

Keep in mind we also never see junior enlisted quarters on traditional starships, either.

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>>25084194

>>25083933
Infantry units on MEU have hot bunked at times.

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>>25084194

Brilliant! It doesn't matter how much damage their weapons can do, they can only kill 1 HP of ship per attack!

A 1000 damage beam will kill a 1000 damage ship, but it can only kill one of a thousand 1 HP ships!

>>25084231
Its typically mentioned though that enlisted personal share rooms in pairs. Not that you ever SEE many enlisted personnel. Except in the WoK movies where they wore really obvious and different uniforms from enlisted officers.

>>25084158
>two entirely different fleets
The united states has two armies, (the marines being an inferior knockoff army that sometimes hangs out in boats being useless), a coast guard that operates armed frigates, a federally supported national guard, a navy that has more fighter aircraft than the air force, the worlds largest air force (this despite the marines already having their own jets, the army dominating rotary wing assets and having their own transports, and the navy having more fighters), and finds ways to fund them all.


I suspect they could, in fact, get funding. They simply allow philosophy to fuck with efficiency.

>>25084017
so than what about all those Private companies with the colonize mars projects? what are they going to do..placing aside my suspicion in which at best they are ponzy schemes and at worst lots of innocent though naive adventures die terrible deaths

>>25084312
Building an artificial colony enclosure isn't terraformation per say, terraforming is more like 'we are going to engineeringly actually change the planet itself outright'. Building city enclosures like what you may have seen in Total Recall's mars sequences is plausible and isn't a ponzi scheme. Just difficult.

>>25084290
"enlisted officers" officer commision not enlist

capthca dnforeg WHARF

>>25084366
Except for O'Brian the enlisted crew were invisible on the shows.

>>25084295

That goes against federation philosophy though. Their ships are multipurpose as a point. They're NOT a "military' in the traditional sense.

Imagine how much the Klingons, Romulans, or someone else would start beating their war drums if the Federation started building pure combat ships. Or even its own citizens. The high and noble federation, building dedicated weapons of war!

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>>25084366

So I made a mistake, sorry its 2am.

>>25084387
Which is fine. There's an in-universe reason for the frankly stupid as fuck designs.

People should refer to it, and not try to defend what the federation does as sensible. It isn't. Far from it.

It makes for easier writing, though.

>>25084290
>not that you ever SEE many enlisted personnell
Aren't most goldshirts enlisted?
I know O'brian was an enlisted man and I can't really imagine Data or Worf at SF academy, although for entirely different reasons.

Although Data and Worf being room mates in college would make for the greatest Star Trek show of all time.

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>>25084417

>>25084417
Data and Worf were officers and did go to the academy. Though not together, but that would have been awesome.

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>>25084417

Nope. Most characters you see are Ensign grade or better.

Part of this might be because (I presume) only SF Officers are used for bridge crew and that is where the camera spends most of its time.

. . . Except O'Brien was a helmsman for a while in the early seasons... Though he WAS wearing officer pips at the time and this was well before they developed him into an actual character.

>>25084295
Did you just insult my beloved Corps!

>>25084459
all I will think about is data wandering around drunk coed parties trying to understand

>>25084459
Wait so genetically engineered people aren't allowed to join the academy because of unfair advantage, but they're fine with robots?

Going back to the original point of the thread with a few other things thrown in.

Without the vulcan contact - how would Human ship design actually work? Would we be looking at the more sensible ship designs lifted above? Science ships for SCIENCE and actual battleships for war?

While I always felt the Defiant ship was a damned awesome little ship, I always wondered why fighter combat was no longer a thing in Trek - there where no carriers, cruisers, battleships - hell, no destroyers, corvettes or gunboats. I know naval terms in space is a played out trope but it always got under my bonnet.

TFW a goddamn federation battlestar turns up and launches a fucktonne of phaser armed fighters into xenos faces

>>25084648
data can get drunk you know
bangs Tasha Yar
like 2nd or 3rd episode of entire series

>>25084616
His ignorance on the branches and star fleets place holding multiple roles solidified him as either a troll or too ignorant to discuss with.

>>25084708
I thought that was radiation shenanigans making him act drunk, not literally alcohol.

>>25084682
No, certain forms of genetic engineering due to their use for war crimes are not even supposed to exist. Joining Starfleet and lying about your origin is also a crime. So using a specific form of genetic tampering without a license and then lying to Starfleet about your generics is two crimes.

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>>25084690

There are destroyers and smaller vessels. You just tend not to see them because they aren't as glamorous.

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>>25084825

Oh and this was in First Contact, just in case anyone wants to cry "but STO!"

>>25084849
The majority of STO ships are canon and originate from TNG or DS9.

>>25084690
>I always wondered why fighter combat was no longer a thing in Trek
The writers were of the opinion that launching space fighters would always be less effective than just firing more torpedoes.

>there where no carriers, cruisers, battleships - hell, no destroyers, corvettes or gunboats
They don't use those terms, but ships come in various sizes and fills most of those roles in a fleet battle situation.

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>>25084883

At this point I wouldn't say the majority. But almost all the good looking ones do.

Though there are exceptions.

>>25084905
And below a (relatively high) threshold, ships were just too small to be combat effective. Nothing without a warp core can threaten a ship with one and shields.

>>25084955

Warpcores can get pretty small though, eventually many shuttles have warp engines, and the Danube Runabout sometimes pulls double-duty as a torpedo boat of sorts.

I'd say the Runabouts make a decent "fighter". I think occasionally one even defeats a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, though that might be because its the main characters piloting.

>>25084802
radiation shenanigans that made water molecule chains, that were basically alcoholic

>>25084690
They did introduce "Federation fighters" during the Dominion War. They were the same type of ship that the Maquis typically used. So they were warp capable, and probably a bit bigger than one typically thinks of a fighter being. Possibly more like space gunboats.

Did anybody else find it weird how the klingons were meant to be these warrior culture badasses but birds of prey were absolutely tiny, like just a bit bigger than a bus?

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Is it me or did anyone else think that even enough that most of the Fed's ships where build for support and exploring, that they would still be one of the last people you want to pick a fight with?
I mean the only thing that the other factions had going for them is they can cloak their ships

>>25084955
While I'm not well versed in the star trek universe, I'm not so sure about that. Slap a bunch of photon torpedo launchers on enough tin cans and you could probably crack any starship. Although you might need to get them to come to you so that they can't just kite you with warp drives all day. I can easily imagine a network of expendable weapons platforms or a minefield creating a no-fly zone around a space station.

Does trek have a "hyperspace inhibitor" equivalent for their warp drives? If STL gunboats want to do anything besides guard the starbase all day, they would need to be supported by something that could prevent a conventional starship from using their warp drive.

>>25085195
Yep, I never understood how big they where

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>>25085200

Well, the Federation is pretty huge and compared to Romul and Klingon space, resource rich, IIRC.

I imagine it might be similar to America in WWII. Kind of gets their ass kicked at first, but if they get serious about things and start turning their massive economy over to wartime production, look out!


>>25085195

Are you talking about Into Darkness? I just assumed those Klingon ships were small patrol ships similar to runabouts and they simply used "D-4" as another needless reference to previous Star Trek stuff.

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>>25085195
They had plenty of bigger ships.

>>25085200
I dunno the Romulans were pretty tough, or at least they always drag out the Romulan warbird as this huge threat on TNG. And in Balance of Terror a lone Romulan scouting vessel damn near destroyed the Enterprise with Kirk in his hayday in command.

>>25085302
I mean in the old movies, especially TVH. They fill out it's entire cargo bay with 2 whales in small tank, the Enterprise has shuttle ramps bigger than that. Not to mention when they land you can see the imprint on the ground and it's really small.

>>25085302
D-4, as in not a D-7, but related. Smaller number equals smaller ship.

But I assumed the poster meant the Bird of Prey, and he was being hyperbolic about the size.

>>25085195
Star Trek doesn't really believe in bigger = better

look at the Federation's only warship its 120 meters long.

Those Birds of Prey are pretty heavy armed and shielded for its size plus the fact you only need about 10 people to fully crew it means you can make hundreds of them for the same amount of resources and manpower the Imperuim needs to make one battleship

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>>25085407

The Bird of Prey is small, yes. However its size as varied wildly during its time in star trek.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm

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>>25085407
The bird-of-prey is just one of their smaller ship classes. Presumably meant to be grouped into attack wings during battle.

They also had these cruisers during the same time period.

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>>25085448

Traditionally D-# has been used to denote various generations of Klingon battlecruisers in older canon materials and fan work. So I guess that is what I'm thinking of.

I much prefer the D-4 that would've shown up in Enterprise but was rejected for stupid reasons

>>25084690
Because you have auto targeting phasers that can one shot whole fighter wings

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>>25082350

Care for a tribble? That'll be ten credits.

YO WHERE ALL THE GREEN WOMEN AT

>>25085539

That's quite nice.

ENT was such a waste of a series. Finally got good and then was cut.

>>25085575
He was actually a surgically altered klingon.

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Say what you will, but I always favored the TOS design for the Enterprise over this fancy movie shit.

Might have something to do with me being a Star Wars fan before I was a Star Trek fan; I like the "used future" look.

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>>25085604

The best reason is why it got cut and they used an old D-7 CGI model instead... it didn't have enough windows!

>>25085358
Yeah but in one TNG
The Fed order the Enp to patrol the their line and face down several of their ships

>>25085302
Yeah I can understand that but it was just so messed up to see fleets of Fed's ships just getting destroyed but ships they could have easily won against

>>25085614

No he wasn't. That other guy was, the bureaucrat's second-in-command whatever. Watch the episode again. Cyrano Jones is human, and not malicious in the least; he's just an idiot.

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>>25085614
You're thinking of this guy.

>>25085195
the ships in Into Darkness aren't Birds of Prey, they're more like shuttlecraft

>>25085551
Strange how the phasers can hand wave away strike craft and yet minefields are still a problem for starships.

>>25085551

>Thread about original canon going out the window.
>I put forward a speculative idea because the concept of it is awesome and relatively unexplored.

>Hurfadurf oneshot bullshit.

Well fuck, did you enjoy pissing on my fireworks? Everyone else had some fairly awesome ideas.

>>25085761

Star Trek is serious business.

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>>25082350
>>25085575
You could totally play a Rogue Trader style game set in the Star Trek universe.

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>>25085778

Lucky for me I was raised with B5 then isn't it?

>>25085725
>>25085685
Right, my bad.
I only watched Trials and Tribble-ations, never the original episode so I got mixed up.

>>25085817

Both are good. Defining your life around some TV is a bit sad though

>>25085858

Raised as in raised watching it - by both my dad and my grandparents. Turn of phrase y'know?

>>25085960

So you're from a family of nerds.

Disgusting.

>>25080980

The idea I had a few days ago was to get a group together and play a campaign that spans some time; maybe have them on a 5-year exploration mission like the Enterprise. After that campaign, gather the character sheets and play a few different games.
Once the Star Trek game is nearly forgotten, pull it out again - this time everyone's aged twenty to thirty years and have ranked up a bit. They all are asked to test-run the new X (X being the ship they started on; so essentially the U.S.S.Fancyship D). Once they do, they hit some sort of anomaly and end up in the Mirror Universe and must find their way back. Or not.

>>25086115

Excuse me, what the hell are you doing? This is /tg/ and you seem to be lost.

>>25085817
Go home Londo. You're drunk.

>>25080980
I think the most likely outcome is disaster of some kind. Despite the NX program feeling that the Vulcans kept them back, it probably also kept them from rushing headlong into some kind of disaster.

It's also probable that without the Vulcan influence that it would have taken Earth a lot longer to recover from the war. Dollars to donuts we don't make it off the planet as a single cohesive civilization but as two or three "tribes", and as soon as they've established outposts elsewhere on other worlds, some kind of disaster befalls Earth.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15689428/

>>25086883
but Londo is always drunk

>>25084690
I'm pretty sure they actually do have dedicated types of ships. The TNG Enterprise is an exception because it's an ambassador ship, and a flagship to boot.

Fighters are irrelevant in a Trek universe because there's no benefit in going small. The closest comparison would be DS9s runabouts which, you'll notice, are utterly shit. Slow, low powered.

The role of fighters are effectively taken by Photon Torpedoes, and the most effective means of photon torpedo delivery being a fuck off battleship, because it might actually survive long enough to fire them.

>>25084417
There's a good book out there covering Worf at the acedemy.
It is stated that Data attended the academy as well.

>>25084682
Earth still manages to hold on to SOME 'racism' based on old hates.
One of the few signs that they are still human, because for the most part ST humans are practically a different species.. culturally.

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>>25084690
See also: Terran Empire

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I have been toying with the idea of setting a campaign in the reboot-verse, but every time I try to work out what else would change as a result of Vulcan being destroyed, I start to smell burnt toast.

That, and ideally ideas for adventures should ideally be more than just "that one TOS episode, only with lens flare".
>>25083502
Correction; it only covers CANONICAL Star Trek stuff. Such is the herping and derping by Trekkies and Trekkers over what is and isn't canon, there exists a site called Memory Beta, which deals with all the non-canonical stuff.

>>25083029
Sensor technology is so sophisticated in Star Trek that a planet with Federation-level tech can easily detect when a ship is preparing for warp, and even another ship can calculate their warp trajectory, given enough time. Given this, I think its probable to assume that most federation planets have ground-based and orbital defense platforms that would, upon detecting a vessel locking a warp trajectory THROUGH EARTH, instantaneously act to vaporize said vessel. As far as using relativistic missiles traveling at Warp 9 from distant worlds, remember that in the Trek universe, its much easier to send a FTL signal than traverse the distance yourself (because plot convenience) Hence, even though the Borg move faster than any known Federation ship, they still knew they were coming a long time off and were able to "head them off at the pass" at Wolf 359 (Not that that went well for them at all, but you see what i mean?)

>>25083640
Which Enterprise?

>>25084690
I know STO is of disputable canon, but they've gone that direction. The federation is gearing up for war because they're being pressed by the Romulan Tal Shiar on one side and the Klingons on the other, because the Khitomer Accords ended and something or another happened that made them pissed enough to start a war.
There are a few missions that are played entirely in shuttles, one of them being a huge fighter fight in atmosphere.
And then there are carriers as well, I think the Federation one is Cash Store only, but it flies around pooping out fighters.
Also, the Terran Empire went back to being an empire full of dicks after Smiley was killed by his son, and they keep making incursions into the prime universe.

It's kind of an interesting look at a Federation geared up for a hardcore war, IMO.

>>25087923
Memory Beta is limited to licensed works - for truly non-canon stuff there's Memory Gamma.

>>25083029
Easy, warp drive doesn't function too close to a gravity well. The perterbations in space-time gradually become to great for the computer to anticipate and overcome. This is actually supported in the Star Trek RTS from a number of years back

>>25089287
Add in the Dominion war and the Borg and things actually start looking realistic, and their idealism comes to bite them in the ass.

>>25083285
>>25083802
maintaining a warp bubble becomes more and more difficult the closer you get to a gravity well

>>25089484
We had the dominion, but that got resolved. Right now it's the Borg and the Tholians, which caused the Klingons to take a step back and go "Oh shit, might be best to work with the Federation to deal with this shit." and then a splinter group of Romulans called the Romulan Republic formed, due to the Tal Shiar being pretty much controlled by the Iconians, and they're working with the Federation and Klingons.

Also, Q shows up every christmas to throw parties.

>>25086561
Be nice, let's help the little man find his way back to the locker room

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>>25089476
Star Trek Armada!

Reinstalling now...

>>25089615
"You hit me! Picard never hit me!"

"I'm not Picard!"

Sisko confirmed for most baddass commanding officer of a series.

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If I was to run a Trek RPG I'd probably set it on a Constellation class (first in service in the 2270s) or maybe an early model Excelsior in the 2290s or 2300s.

Plenty of shit going down then. Klingon Civil War (see Klingon Academy), Khitomer Peace accords, a largely undetailed Fed-Romulan Conflict, plenty of "strange new worlds" to explore. I think several major federation races joined around this time, like the Trill, Betazeds and Bolians.

>>25084690
Without Vulcans, all the various human factions would continue to exist and something like the pre-war status quo would probably return. Each power would simply gradually expand their military into space, and keep their peaceful space programs separate. Corporations would handle resourcing operations and probably be responsible for developing space-based industry in the solar system.

On the human side, the setting wouldn't look anything like Star Trek. No one world government, no unified Starfleet, no peaceful inclusion of nearby alien races. Just space versions of western and eastern powers exploring, exploiting, and generally being unenlightened everywhere.

Section 31 is the way things are done.

>>25080980

Well I own a star trek cartography book, and IIRC, the Andorian and Vulcan Homeworlds are literally a few days warp travel from Earth. Actually I think like a half dozen of the Federations founding members home sectors are adjacent to Earth's Sector 001. I'll see if I can pull up a copy of the maps.

>>25083681

Except the Chief Engineer works with the Science labs to modify the Main Deflector dish to emit tachyon particles or some bullshit and your entire fleet is wiped out around the 45 minute mark.

>>25091564
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBD5yyT-s0

>>25085195

Like the B'rel class Bird of Prey from the TOS movies?

IIRC that was intended to serve as a scout and maybe a light skirmisher/raider.

It might also be playing to the whole "warrior" thing to have a bunch of small ships with small crews. More glory and honor for everyone that way.

>>25091618
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBD5yyT-s0

This was far more a staple of TNG than it was of TOS.

>>25092411
It did come back with Voyager, though.

>>25092481

Yup. If I were the captain of a ship in that setting faced with an issue, I'd have my ship fire every known particle at whatever the source of the issue was. Then, if that didn't work, reverse the polarity of the particle emitter and try again. Of course, I'd wait until the last moment to do that, though...otherwise it might not work.

>>25089763
Q's next line is

"no your not, you're easier to provoke"

>>25093661
Q also didn't fuck with Sisko anywhere near as much after that, though. Picard played his game. Janeway had as much trouble with him.

>>25094162
that's more a product of the writers, than anything plot based
and "easy to provoke" does not mean "fun to play with"

>>25080980
You all assume that there will be a starfleet, or a federation for that matter. The truth is private and government forces racing to refine the tech and exploring places that are lucrative. Also pirates, lots of em.

>>25094366
Exactly. Picard and Janeway just played his game and talked at him to stop, which he had fun with and knew where he stood with them.

When someone's willing to punch an extra-dimensional, nearly omnipotent being for being a smarmy ass, that's an immediate sign there's no real fear there.

>>25094162
>>25094827
>the Q episodes of Voyager

Ugh, it's like for all but the first the writers had no idea what Q were.

>>25089763
You do know Q was only "hurt" because he allowed it right? You can't fight a Q with guns or punches you battle one with your mind

Sisko confirmed for dumbest

>>25099756
Q also wasn't expecting Sisko to hit back, either. The mind games are exactly where Q has the most fun, and Sisko didn't play that, so Q wasn't entertained, and left them alone.
TNG: 8 incidents
DS9: 1 incident, Q not responsible
Voyager: 3 incidents

>>25089615

Man, the tholians and borg are hella annoying to fight in that game. The borg are the worst, though - the Shield Neutralizer on the cube means you're fucked if you don't have a counter ability, and having to constantly remodulate your ground weapons means you can't hold ground in a fight easily.

Wasn't it implied at some point that the Tholian Empire is dimensional, rather than spacial - that is, after taking a planet, instead of going for one nearby, they conquer the parallel versions of it?

>>25089724

Man, I loved that game as a kid, although I played Armada 2 way more - species 8472 for life, yo!

I liked how you could steal enemy ships by boarding them, and if you got their builder ship, you could actually build their whole tech tree eventually.

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>>25101306

You must suck, my group does Elite Borg STFs with no tribble at all.

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>>25102986
I got bored of the game.

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>>25103092

The game can get pretty boring. At least once you hit max level.

Thankfully certain parts of the population are fun to fuck with, and its free.

>>25103134
I bought it at launch, hit admiral ranks, and had nothing to do except run around with an overpowered ship.

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You know, we've had plenty of discussion about various parts of Trek, but little about RPGs.

What would you use to run Star Trek? Far Trek came up in a thread a week or two ago and it seems pretty interesting, though it looks like it has some odd flaws or confusion. Seems like it could use some cleaning up but apparently its a couple years old so I'm guessing that isn't going to happen.

>>25104206
Giving it a read. I'd probably fix it with house rules

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>>25105105

My main issue is the space combat. There doesn't seem much for anyone who isn't the helmsman to do, as he does maneuvering and shooting*. I'd probably take a page from later Star Treks and move shooting to either a dedicated "tactical officer" or perhaps the Navigator. This also means a ship can do both at once.

* granted a Science officer can do the "Help" thing, as can an Engineer but you can only do any one help action once per encounter and if you just develop a laundry list of "Help" actions to use every fight that seems a bit... silly or boring.

Alternatively the Engineer(s) can fix stuff, but that can take several rounds at once. I dunno, maybe I'm just overthinking it and space combat is when its the helmsman's time to shine, compared to away missiosn which're probably more about the Captain/First officer and science guys.

Most of the other oddities (Such as references to levels and HP that don't exist) can mostly be harmlessly ignored.

I'd probably get a better feel for things in actual play.

>>25105194
It would be especially difficult since the helmsman is at the complete mercy of the Captain PC. I would play a TNG setting where the GM is the Captain, and he dishes out orders and fronts everything while the PC acting as first officer commands space battles, heads Away Missions, like Riker tended to do.

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>>25105306

That sounds like a recipe for railroading though.

I'd just make sure that the players (especially whoever is the captain) understand that while "yes the captain has the final say" that he is supposed to listen to the advice and ideas of his officers and take their opinions into consideration. If only to help add drama, like how often did Riker and Picard debate a decision?

Alternatively you could just say, OOC, that important decisions can ultimately come down to an OOC vote that the captain has to abide by IC somehow.

Like any other RPG, a setting where one player technically has complete authority over the others requires a reasonably mature group who won't be dicks just because they have the final word.