From the last thread, in response to Isen.

"Well, she's been better, but she'll recover. And she's fine with you coming with us for a while, yeah. How did the talks with the hunters and fishermen go? Are our carts full and luxurious?

Also, is mumei okay?"

Pulling a question from last thread because I was on a mobile-device at the time

When Beacon is venom'd up does it not gain charges period or is it only incapable of being lit?

Does it stand to reason that trying different mixes and combinations from our 3 base venoms could lead to hilariously different results? [oh the joys of chemistry]

>>24431049
Updated battle reference: http://pastebin.com/3PeaYBja

>>24431134
And one other mechanics question from last thread: what's the + on claw attacks?

>>24431156
Tack on another.
>Mechanically speaking ... does that mean 1d20 and 2d20 with a dodge? If going down that road.

>>24431163
>>24431163
Bah forgot the first part
>No, but you can use Clang and one claw.

>Mechanically speaking ... does that mean 1d20 and 2d20 with a dodge? If going down that road.

>>24431049
Copying this from last thread, a variation of which we should use when we get a chance to speak to the other Dawnchasers (and perhaps Isen and Tara) in private:

"Yeah, but this time around I beat her around too. Felt really bad about it afterward, but I learned several things about myself in the process. First [claw], I can produce more venoms than just the bone-melting one, including a black paralytic that should help me be less lethal. Second [claw], I can produce acid. Third [claw], I can mix them and produce a cloud of poison. Fourth [claw], I can move and dodge fast like Lamias are supposed to be able to. And fifth [claw], [wave with clawed hand]."

"Yeah, pretty much. And I wouldn't call her a 'NILF' again in public, either, You have no idea how terrifying that woman would be if she were angry." You say to Isen.

"Yeah, but that makes it even hotter." Isen says.

"How did the talks with the hunters and fishermen go? Are our carts full and luxurious? You ask.

Isen points to two large wagons. "Filled to the brim with sucklings, samplings, savories, and a big bucket of octopus for our feathered friends." He nods. "Turns out that we've got plenty of food and game, most of it went as tithe to Citadel. I've suspended that for now. And we're still trying to fix Stone Hall back up, so good stone, that rock paste stuff they make (concrete), ore, and all those metal goods will be appreciated." He holds out a satchel with a lot of rolled scrolls in it. "Got it all on parchment, so we don't have to worry about backsliding. Now, as long as we can deal with whatever horrible thing happens to screw this all up, this should be a cake walk."

Also, is Mumei okay?" You ask pointing at the pages being hurled out of the wagon with a bevy of insults about rotten eggs and stinking winds of buzzard excrement.

"Oh, yeah. She's just miffed that people got away with so much for so long. Apparently in her home, there would be mass beheadings in the street for this kind of incompetence...THEN the formal executions would begin. And after that the magistrate of the city would be burned alive...after being tarred and feathered."

>>24431156
+2 for now

>>24431163
>>Mechanically speaking ... does that mean 1d20 and 2d20 with a dodge? If going down that road.
Yes, and if you aren't using Becaon then you don't need to dedicate an action, you auto-dodge like you did against Granny.

I'll consider it if we ever meet the guy.

>inb4 hes the next Passion we face

>>24431194
>"Yeah, but that makes it even hotter." Isen says.

Raise a claw to isen. The third one.

>Turns out that we've got plenty of food and game, most of it went as tithe to Citadel. I've suspended that for now

They won't be happy about that. Good.

>being tarred and feathered

Odd choice of punishment for bird-folk.

>>24431224
>+2 for now

Updated: http://pastebin.com/CkxGxZAi

> Yes, and if you aren't using Becaon then you don't need to dedicate an action, you auto-dodge like you did against Granny.

...wow. That's seriously worth considering. (Does stowing it away and not holding it count as "not using"?)

>>24431194
"Hah! That's some governance over there. Great work on the goods, they smell delicious. And like fish. Which is good, I suppose. I assume you have Tara tagging along? She's always such great company."

And then get going.

>>24431224
Can we sheathe Beacon and Clang like a Lance [and shield] from Monster Hunter?

Would it be out of our league to learn how to instant draw Clang and/or Beacon to Block/Parry like in monster hunter?

>>24431194
>>24431253
>raising a claw to isen
actually a fair idea. He'll be interested. Dangerous ladies.

>>24431300
We could learn, but let's not push it for now, I think. At the moment I'm looking forward to trying out two paralytic attacks per round with auto-dodge.

File: 1366782815280.png-(522 KB, 859x580, Spear_technology.png)

522 KB PNG

>>24431300
I'm still of the mindset we should run our spear by the inventor.

>>24431194
Since we're traveling in a group this time, not just alone with Lightmare, get Mage to haste all the other animals pulling the wagons.

>>24431265
"Hah! That's some governance over there. Great work on the goods, they smell delicious. And like fish. Which is good, I suppose. I assume you have Tara tagging along? She's always such great company."

"SURPRISE!" Tara yells out as she hugs you and Tricia both from behind. GRK! Ugh, Granny's blows still have nothing on Tara's hugs.

"Good...to...see...you...too." Tricia chokes out as she tries to get her breath back.

Tara lets go and you two stagger back. The other Dawnchasers come up. Having done a last minute check on the wagon, and gotten the abuse of Tara's hug.

Now's as good a time as any...

"Guys, just so you don't freak out, I got these cool and or terrifying claws and barbs now. Or technically I always had them and am now just finding out about it. Also apparently I am just brimming with poison, so much so that I can make a poisonous gas. So... yeah. Full disclosure and all that."

You show them all on your new claws. Everyone is impressed. Tricia looks...well...how she looks when she talks to you about what she might look like in twenty years. Isen looks turned on, but that's Isen.

"And the barbs?" Tricia asks, looking at your tail.

>>24431382
>"And the barbs?" Tricia asks, looking at your tail.

"Granny helped me find all this by giving me something the previous Caligo Clarus gave her, some nasty concoction that removed both Citadel's influence and my own mind, for a time. Afterward, I figured out how to manage the venoms and claws, but the barbs I can't quite manage while sane."

>>24431382
"Well, I haven't been able to do them again. It was quite a surprise at the time- also pretty painful. Gonna need a lot of tail rubs for that one."
Are there visible wounds or whatever where the barbs came out? I imagine there would be.

>>24431423
"Granny helped me find all this by giving me something the previous Caligo Clarus gave her, some nasty concoction that removed both Citadel's influence and my own mind, for a time. Afterward, I figured out how to manage the venoms and claws, but the barbs I can't quite manage while sane. They were also pretty painful, going to need a lot of tail rubs for that one."

Tricia doesn't say anything. She just hugs you. "You are NOT a monster." She says.

The others instantly get (save Isen) the idea that Tricia needs a moment, so they all head of to check on other things.

She looks at you. A little hurt. "You're TRYING to be more...more what every stupid person out there THINKS you are?" She says. "How could you be so STUPID!?"

>>24431382
I'm not quite sure how I extended them. But they're definitely there.

>>24431462
>She looks at you. A little hurt. "You're TRYING to be more...more what every stupid person out there THINKS you are?" She says. "How could you be so STUPID!?"

Reel back a bit, hurt by this. "I'm...I'm not trying to be more like a monster. But the physical part, that much I am no matter how much of a person I am up here [touch the side of her head]. And if I can use that to help us, it's worth it. The paralytic alone should help me kill far fewer people, and I really felt guilty every time I crushed someone just to get them out of the battle quickly."

>>24431462
"Better I be prepared with what I am so as to not have it be a surprise later one. Knowledge is not something to be feared. Besides, last thing I need is someone forcing instincts on me without my permission. This isn't a change in who I am, but a change in how I understand myself. "

>>24431462
I'm not trying to be a monster. I'm trying to be stronger and faster and better able to fight against the darkness. And it worked.

>>24431502
"...but it was definitely a new high for Dawnchaser plans, I'll admit. And I'm glad you weren't around when it happened; Granny and I barely survived the experience."

I'm not a monster Tricia, but I am also not human. I'm a Lamia. And thats so much more then what Citadel makes those poor things that live in the wilds. I only knew a fraction of what I was capable of. And like it or not.... I need these weapons, I need the speed. and I need this poison.

>>24431462
"Oh Tricia. I'm sorry for not talking it over with you first. You know how stupid I can be. But these things... they were always there. I'm no different than I was. I learned things I would need to know, at some point down the line. I don't know if I could handle discovering any of these on accident. Not again."

>>24431525
oh this is good, this is very good.

>>24431525
I take my first one back, this is *much* better.
Then follow it with:
>>24431519
that.

>>24431462

"I'm just trying to be anything more than me.

"Those things have always there Tricia ... just buried. I may have discover these things on my own in time but who knows under stress I might be in then. At least here, Granny was able to keep me from doing anything more stupid.

"Or something I might regret. "

>>24431551
>I'm just trying
>I'm not trying

URRGH

>>24431549
Er, wrong second post linked to.
Meant to link to these two in order:
>>24431525
>>24431523

>>24431502
>"I'm...I'm not trying to be more like a monster. But the physical part, that much I am no matter how much of a person I am up here." You touch the side of her head. "And if I can use that to help us, it's worth it. The paralytic alone should help me kill far fewer people, and I really felt guilty every time I crushed someone just to get them out of the battle quickly."

She sniffs. "I know."

"Better I be prepared with what I am so as to not have it be a surprise later one. Knowledge is not something to be feared. Besides, last thing I need is someone forcing instincts on me without my permission. This isn't a change in who I am, but a change in how I understand myself. "

She wipes her eyes. "I know, but..." She swallows. "I see you...I see you go and do these things, and get stronger, and better...and more and more the fearless person I love. I get jealous." She hold you close. "It's the waiting. I don't know if I'm going to get winds, or extra legs, or...or have my jaw rip open like a pair of mandibles. I'm afraid, and I see you charge towards that point like you do everything else." She hold you tightly. "I hate you for that. A little." She sniffs. "I'm babbling."

>>24431607
"I love it when you babble."

>>24431607
>>24431622
Isen:

Slow clap. Or "Kiss her!"

>>24431525
"Oh Tricia. I'm sorry for not talking it over with you first. You know how stupid I can be. But these things... they were always there. I'm no different than I was. I learned things I would need to know, at some point down the line. I don't know if I could handle discovering any of these on accident. Not again."

"I know..." She sighs. "There's no safe way for me to jumpstart it, you know. Royal Jelly's the only thing, but it'd make go nuts...think...think I should have Mage add it to his to-do list, or ask Granny about it?" She sniffs. "Just to get this OVER with?"

>>24431632
>Isen starts to slow clap
>Lea smacks him upside the head

>>24431640
"If you want. Or something to help shape the way you'll change, when the time comes. But.

It's a long list."

>>24431640
"Part of it is the fact that granny had at least a rough idea of how things would be. It would be best to remain small scale until we find more knowledge on that subject. We can hardly believe that the underside witch was entirely a product of the jelly and not a product of the same thing that happened to mages father."

>>24431640
"I wish we could find someone further down the path than you that we could consult. I would prefer taking it slow, but if it is really that agonizing for you, lets talk to Mage."

>>24431607
>>24431640
>She wipes her eyes. "I know, but..." She swallows. "I see you...I see you go and do these things, and get stronger, and better...and more and more the fearless person I love. I get jealous." She hold you close. "It's the waiting. I don't know if I'm going to get winds, or extra legs, or...or have my jaw rip open like a pair of mandibles. I'm afraid, and I see you charge towards that point like you do everything else." She hold you tightly. "I hate you for that. A little." She sniffs. "I'm babbling."

"You're never babbling, Tricia. But think about it. If I can do those things, and still get through them and be a person, then so can you. No power in this world could make you otherwise. Other people look to me to be their strength, but you're the one I always look to.

Royal Jelly seems like a bad idea, judging from the effects we've seen of it, but if you want to ask Granny and Mage about it, you should. Whether you want to hurry it up, or just find out what might happen someday, or even find some way to stop it. Whichever one you want, I'll be here with you the whole way."

>>24431683
Adding to this:

"That stuff Granny had worked because it didn't just make me the monster Citadel would have me be, it took away that influence as well; I felt like the original Dragon-Leviathans of old must have felt like. That Underside Wasp Witch was insane, but what if that's just what Citadel turns Wasp Witches into? What if there's something else, something wonderful, that you'll become without that damned influence?"

Ssen's entire life, starting when she asked the man who just slaughtered her family to not leave her alone:

A thesis on the practicality of stupid ideas.

"You're never babbling, Tricia. But think about it. If I can do those things, and still get through them and be a person, then so can you. No power in this world could make you otherwise. Other people look to me to be their strength, but you're the one I always look to.

"Royal Jelly seems like a bad idea, judging from the effects we've seen of it, but if you want to ask Granny and Mage about it, you should. Whether you want to hurry it up, or just find out what might happen someday, or even find some way to stop it. Whichever one you want, I'll be here with you the whole way.

"That stuff Granny had worked because it didn't just make me the monster Citadel would have me be, it took away that influence as well; I felt like the original Dragon-Leviathans of old must have felt like. That Underside Wasp Witch was insane, but what if that's just what Citadel turns Wasp Witches into? What if there's something else, something wonderful, that you'll become without that damned influence?"

She looks at you. "No. Wings. Got it?"

>>24431777
>She looks at you. "No. Wings. Got it?"

"Awww, but they'd look so cute on you!"

>>24431777
>>24431792
"Oh, we'll see about that. We will see."

>>24431777
"I think you'd look pretty cute with wings. Like a fairy!"

>>24431810
>>24431804
>>24431792
we have moved into the taunting tricia section of these proceedings.

>>24431777
Or, a slightly more serious response with the joke thrown in too: "Pretty sure that isn't up to me. But if it were, I think you'd look pretty cute with wings. Then again, you can't *not* look cute."

>>24431810
>Like a fairy
That's probably /why/ she doesn't want them.

>>24431829
She probably dressed up like a butterfly a few times as a young girl, and nobody ever let her live the idea down.

>>24431777
Not a fan of heights?

>>24431777
"If that's the way you want it."

>>24431777
"Are you sure? Together, we could fly over our enemies spewing poison!"

>>24431792
"Pretty sure that's not up to me, but they'd look so cute on you!"

"No. Wings!" She snaps.

"We'll see about that. We'll see."

"No. Wings!" She says tweaking your nose. Then she kisses you and goes off to the others.

"Okay, now that the lovers very hot, and I'm sure very moving, heart to heart, that was completely private and had no one eavesdropping..."

Everyone tries to not look guilty.

"Is over...shall we get a move on? It'll be three days to Bronze Peak with all of this stuff." Isen says.

>>24431937
"Get moving all you lookieloos! We have places to be!

Isen, remind me to slap you later."

>>24431937
>"Okay, now that the lovers very hot, and I'm sure very moving, heart to heart, that was completely private and had no one eavesdropping..."
>"Is over...shall we get a move on? It'll be three days to Bronze Peak with all of this stuff." Isen says.

Grab Isen with our newly elongated tail, and throw him towards his own wagon. Gently.

Get Mage to cast haste on all the wagon-pulling animals other than Lightmare.

>>24431937
"Hey Mage, think you can cut that travel time down a bit for us?"

>>24431952
(Oh, and did we tell the others that we're longer now, too? Or did they notice?)

>>24431952
Maybe we can just set him on his cart?

>>24431960
(They'll notice when we're all in the wagon together)

"I suppose we should. And if any of the rest of you have anything you want to get off your shoulders, feel free."

Rolled 12

>>24431958
"Hey Mage, think you can cut that travel time down a bit for us?" You ask as your tail 'accidentally'' pushes Isen into a mud puddle. (Darn that thing, just does NOT do what you tell it to.)

"Gladly." He says.

>>24432034
looks like mage succeeded well.

Off we go! Sorry about that Isen.

>>24432034
The steeds are super charged, and you should be there in a day and a half.

"You get longer Ssen?" Peri asks. "You seem longer."

"She's gotten half-a-foot longer." Lea says. "She 's been getting a couple inches every month, the whole caravan escapade was three months."

"That a normal growth rate for a lamia?" Peri asks.

"Well...Ssen is in her late teens...and..." Mari shrugs her shoulders. "I have no idea. No one's studied sane lamia growth rates."

"Yeah well," Peri says. "It'll be weird if you're doing business in Stone Hall and your tail's still at Bronze Peak."

"Granny's a naga. By normal estimates, she should be as big as a barn by now, or larger. She's a head taller than Ssen is, and about as long as she is now. I doubt our illustrious leader will have to worry about that." Mari says.

"On topics that DON'T involve people's bodies altering..." Mage says. "Ssen, do we have ANY idea on how to deal with the Harpy Queen?"

>>24432089
"NOPE!

"Onwards!"

>>24432089
"Actually- yes for a change. It turns out harpies don't value strength as much as insane bravery or cunning.

So, we have an excuse for our stupid plans for once!"

>>24432034
I really do think we should re-offer having chats, because we've got a glimpse at some of the resentment out there. And since the rest of the party was obviously eavesdropping, now is a good time.

>>24432114
It would be good to clear the air. I second this in the name of saving time and doing it in transit.

>>24432089
Well a combination of 'We'll pay you in octopus and fish.', 'You don't wanna mess with us', and 'You'll have a better life teaming up with us."

I'll probably be doing the second one.

>>24432089
"Paul says we have to get her to Bow to us. Still working on that."

>>24432114
Eh, Mari said it was too soon and we left an open door for anyone to talk to us should the wish to. I'm not saying we don't push the issue ever but lets let it slide for a bit longer.

>>24432134
>>24432114
>>24432128
yeah, we let 'em know the door is open to talk. They'll come to us.

>>24432089
>"On topics that DON'T involve people's bodies altering..." Mage says. "Ssen, do we have ANY idea on how to deal with the Harpy Queen?"

"Quite a few, actually. Paul said they'll want food, because they've been starving and the insane harpies take most of the food. Hence the fish. He also said we can't just leave the food out for them to eat; we have to wait until the Queen bows to us, acknowledging us as a threat she does not wish to fight. And Granny said they don't necessarily respect physical strength, but more bravery, cunning, and feats of daring; she suggested that my reaction times would be critical, which is good since I just got some major help in that department."

>>24432089
"Growth rate for those of us who are sane are directly related to whether we give in to our... 'baser' instincts. Today's fight... isn't something I want to do again."

>>24432108
"Actually- yes for a change. It turns out harpies don't value strength as much as insane bravery or cunning.

So, we have an excuse for our stupid plans for once!"

"So we have NO plans."

"NOPE!"

"Dawnchaser Standard it is!" Tricia says with a smile.

"ONWARD!" Everyone yells.

Roll 1d20 for travel roll.

Rolled 1

>>24432169
Nat 20!

Rolled 20

>>24432169

>>24432174
THANK YOU!

>>24432174
>Travel roll
Bueno

>>24432174
>>24432175
Thank you so much, anon. That's two crits in a row for me on *travel* rolls where they're critical failures.

>>24432183
obviously if I attempt to roll high I roll low.

I know how /tg/dice work.

>>24432191
You may have something there.

>>24432174

His Light shines on the dice.

>>24432089
Echo, do Ssen's claws make any sound when extending or retracting? Because on the one hand that'd be useful for the same reason the noise of a shotgun can be, and on the other hand we might need to do it silently for stealth at some point. So it'd be good to know which one.

>>24432191
No you don't once you think you do they change them on you. Unless your rolling in a Blorp thread in which case they just hate him.

>>24432210
>Ssen the Sniktbub
pls now

>>24432223
our intimidate scores are getting pretty high.

They'd be SUPER high with barbs.

>>24432210
As tempting as it is, no. There is no sound.

>>24432174
Oh today's a happy day for travel, and a happy night as well. Because some days are just perfect, in a twisted messed-up Dawnchaser way. Like today.

Turns out that all of the Ghouls in Citadel Kingdom weren't killed when Mage blasted their guts with breaking his sister's staff. There are some small cabals of them wandering around. They're nowhere near the giant threat that they were, but still, someone's going to hunt them down.

But not this group.

And the Dramatae are crazy serious about seeing you dead. They're sending out Passions with Blank mooks. Those bastards are out for your blood, and you're going to be on edge watching out for those hit squads.

But not this group.

THAT'S because the squad of Ghouls and the Passion Hit Team ran into each other. They found themselves at odds and began a discourse in the traditional matter, most well known to their respective groups.

It turned out to be an unsustainable argument for either party, and both groups were forced to yield the floor, and their lives.

"Isn't this kind of an evil scheme to have two groups fight each other to the death?" Mage asks.

"Yes." Lea says.

"Don't those plans usually fail?" Mage asks.

"Yes." Lea says.

"Is it because we enacted this, without knowing that we were doing this, what caused it to actually work?" Mage asks.

"Probably not." Lea says.

"Is it because we're lucky sons-of-bitches this one fucking time?" Mari asks.

"That seems about right." Lea says.

loot them? troll blood potions. maybe for one the Passions have money on them as well

>>24432310
"This leads me to question just how many groups of bandits, ghouls, and dramatae killed each other sneaking up on us. It could be a very large number and we'd never know."

>>24432310
I love it.

Just in case they prove useful, let's pick up the Passion masks. They may not serve for uncorrupting coins, but there *is* power in them.

>>24432326
Worth a shot; we should check what they have for information purposes in any case.

>>24432310
Oh, and how many Passions this time?

>>24432310
>roll a single 1
>two groups of enemies die
Yuss

>>24432326
The Passions never have money.

>>24432351
Target and adjacent party die.

>>24432333
"Not much else to do but thank the Light for this run of luck and get ready to administer a whole lot of last rites."

>>24432358
Every Light Bringer ever rolls this upon facing their final foe. Little do they know the GM has switched the dice on them... every face is a 1

Hey, a question I forgot from last thread: where on the map were the five points and center of the pentagon? Did they coincide with any existing locations in the modern world?

>>24432310
"So Lea, would you rather have one or the other group of villains arrow you in the face? Because I'd really rather not risk any of you if I can avoid it, but I'm sure if you asked them nicely..."

>>24432382
should I get my mapping tools out?

>>24432378
No, I refuse to think that the Dramatae arrange for it to be luck that the Lightbringers die in the attempt. I think every time the Lightbringers have been conditioned so well that they voluntarily choose to go out in a blaze of glory Taking You With Me.

>>24432387
If we get enough information to map the points, yeah. It'd be particularly interesting if any of the points corresponded to some modern location that we could look into.

.... I bet the Dramatae manor is at the center. It'd be supreme irony for Peace to setup in the place of her father's defeat

>>24432333
Mage grins and holds up a pair of troll blood vials. "That puts us back up to eight." He sighs.

"This leads me to question just how many groups of bandits, ghouls, and dramatae killed each other sneaking up on us. It could be a very large number and we'd never know." You say.

"Yeah, well..." Peri says as she kicks a Passion disgustedly. "Broke ass bastard. Let's not give them ideas."

You all make camp.

You dream.

A gentle hand on your shoulder. You blink and look up into the ever changing mask of the Fifth. You're back on that dark wooden floor with the overhead light that you spoke to the Dragon Who Was Of Shadow on.

"May I please show you something?" He says. "This may be the last time we can talk, so I thought you'd want to be as aware as possible." He motions for you to follow him.

follow.... but be wary.

>>24432433
"Sure, why not. Sorry about it being the last time we can talk, it's probably my fault in some way or another."

>>24432433
>"May I please show you something?" He says. "This may be the last time we can talk, so I thought you'd want to be as aware as possible." He motions for you to follow him.

"Sure. You said before that you couldn't reveal who or what you were yet. Is that still true?"

>>24432433
Well, while we're at it, would you mind explaining to me how it is you keep showing up in my dreams? I think I have a right to ask, and since you seem to think I won't get another chance...

>>24432455
Sorry, that's not quite right. He hinted at what he *was*, and we have hints about what the Fifth Humor is from others as well; the thing he couldn't explain was about the Dragon who Was of Shadow and its daughters (which we know more about now), and "Also, I've got some...requests...from another source and I REALLY can't say anything about THAT."

>>24432433
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23815898/#p23817950

>>24432482
He's some kind of land spirit or something. I'm not sure.

>>24432553
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23710653/#p23711193
>"Wait..." You say. "Is there a Fifth Humor?"

>"What?" He asks.

>"A fifth Dramatae." You say.

>"Why are you asking?" Julian says.

>"Sort of." The magic user says. "There are some who feel that the vessel of the humors itself, is the fifth humor. The container effects the contents."

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23815898/#p23817950
>"I am...I am what holds. All that are within myself are defined by me, and...oh screw this...you had a name for me long long ago, but now you call me Citadel Kingdom, and Purple Sands, and White Tree, and even River's Crossing...but I had another name, before the damn monster showed up and started to take over." He sighs. "As for what I'm doing to you? I'm trying to stop Citadel, and save as many lives as I can. Also, I've got some...requests...from another source and I REALLY can't say anything about THAT."

>>24432580
yeah. what would you describe that as?

Land spirit is as close as I can come.

>>24432455
Warily you get up and follow the Fifth.

"You said before that you couldn't reveal who or what you were yet. Is that still true?"

"No." He says.

"Sorry about it being the last time we can talk, it's probably my fault in some way or another." You say.

"It is...but this is a good thing. I'm not supposed to exist, really." He says. "You could call me, the Evicted Party." He sighs. "Kicked out of my own home...not to say that people wouldn't claim that I didn't deserve it."

He pauses and turns to you.

"I am what holds the humors within the vessel. I shape what is place within me, and I am shaped in return. I am pitiless. I am compassionless. I have no sense of right or wrong. All fall before me. I favor none. I give gifts to all. I am defeated daily, and I always win at the end. I was here before the Dragon Who Was Of Shadow rose up, a God cast in his own mind, and I was here before Citadel took its place. I am your kingdom. I am the land. I am the Fifth Dramatae...and I've been trying to get my home back since those fuckers kicked me out."

>>24432609
So much talk... if it were a riddle, I would guess "Truth".

>>24432609
"But then, why do you say you aren't supposed to exist? How did they kick you out? Are the Dragon and Citadel real spirits, or manifestations shaped by what was placed in you?

...or perhaps I should shut up and let you show me."

>>24432609
>I've been trying to get my home back since those fuckers kicked me out

I like you more already.

>>24432609
"No right and wrong, eh? That sounds about right for the land. I hope, that when I clear the influence of the other parties and you assumedly move in to fill their void, that you won't be so hands on as the others. Crusading wearies one so. Show me to what you wanted me to see."

>>24432609
>not to say that people wouldn't claim that I didn't deserve it."

Pretty sure thee's one more n't in there than you wanted.

>>24432609
>>24432645
"But then, why do you say you aren't supposed to exist? How did they kick you out? Are the Dragon and Citadel real spirits, or manifestations shaped by what was placed in you?"

"Those are very good questions." He nods and holds his head. "Ugh, hard to be so direct and focused. Hurts like a bitch...how do you manage sentience?" The Fifth sighs. "How do you keep yourself from screaming at all the endless procession of impulses, feelings, thoughts, and ideas? I spent the first two ages just screaming at the pain of it...still hurts."

He waves his hands. "Never mind, as for the how...same way the Lightbringers cast out the Dragon." He sighed. "A grand seal. The Dragon Who Was Of Shadow was the result of another group of crusaders. They wanted to make the world fair. To end the rule of fate, chance, and to stop having their group of jerks be beaten up by the other jerks. So they created their own God, cast the Grand Seal within a sea of bloodshed and battle, kicked me out, and put in what they thought would be their puppet." The Fifth chuckles. "Didn't exactly work the way they wanted it to."

>>24432652
now now, he IS amoral by his own admission. that thing about the genocide plans probably wasn't a lie at all. But if he's amoral and doesn't do anything... well, I'm fine with it.

>>24432703
"I see. They loaded the dice in their favor thinking it "fair", but that bias became a force for evil done in its name. And Citadel was little more than the same in a package friendlier to humans rather than to so-called monsters."

>>24432703
"Seems like creating new gods isn't the way to go here. I'll have to learn more about the building and breaking of seals. Now, what did you want to show me?"

>>24432703
"I'm starting to see a pattern here.."

>>24432703
I take it thats how Citadel was created. Peace made a new set of seals, centered around the city... and when they were slaughtered by the Newgates Citadel's god stood high.

>>24432703
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23815898/#p23818089
> Light be with you."

> "It always is." The Fifth says.

That's almost crazy enough to be true.

>>24432703
>>24432721

"I see. They loaded the dice in their favor thinking it "fair", but that bias became a force for evil done in its name. And Citadel was little more than the same in a package friendlier to humans rather than to so-called monsters."

"You're very good at this. Leviathan brain, always thought the asymmetry of it was so perfect. Anyway. Their perfect God was as perfect as humans could make it." He smiled. "So naturally things went south, quickly. The monsters grew in power, along with the more savage tribes. Still people survived, as that's what you're very VERY good at...well...humans...you know what I mean." He sighs. "The Bear Tribe tried to go one way, and the Lightbringer tried another." He points at you. "Don't ask me about..." He points upwards. "I don't know. I have my guesses, but I am a living thing of this world, just as you are. I have no knowledge of what is beyond...but I have guesses, and I don't want to step on their toes." He shrugs. "I mean, a knight seeing an infinitely bright light before he sees a little uncorrupted lamia could be just the brillitie in the tower lighting up from being struck by lightning...or something more." He shrugs again. "It's not my place to wonder what is after, just what is."

"What did you want to show me?"

"History lesson first, or it'll just look like a big spinny thing with bits." He says.

"Anyway, the Lightbringers did their seal, and the Dragon was cast out, or locked away in that clump of mountains. First thing I'm doing is getting rid of it." He mutters. "But then the Lightbringer and his amassed armies did the one thing that you shouldn't do when you win.

"Think that they could stop winning." He sighed.

"You ever wonder what that army was that the soon-to-be Newgates wiped out?" The Fifth says. "That was the end of the first Lightbringer, and his army and faith were now the property of the Newgates and their Messenger."

>>24432822
>"You ever wonder what that army was that the soon-to-be Newgates wiped out?" The Fifth says. "That was the end of the first Lightbringer, and his army and faith were now the property of the Newgates and their Messenger."

"Peace, I take it? That name is becoming ever more painfully ironic."

>>24432822
>cannot stop winning after you win
*deep sigh*
"I see."

>>24432822
>>24432860
Well, I did promise to never put it down.

>>24432822
>"History lesson first, or it'll just look like a big spinny thing with bits." He says.

Hmmm, I wonder if he's going to show us the Grand Seal?

>>24432869
man. We may come to regret being paladins some day.

Because I sort of expected to die at some point, we've been hodangled into immortal guardian position. I suggest we create an order to do the heavy lifting for us.

Also we should discover a way to make steel armor green.

>>24432822
"Peace, I take it? That name is becoming ever more painfully ironic."

"I suppose so, but I'm not sure WHY the Messenger turned on the Dragon. Because Citadel wasn't supposed to be this big sprawling city that catered to everyone's need and caused it to never rain. It was supposed to be a contingency plan. The Children of the God were to take out the two big threats, create Citadel, herd a ton of sheep into it, Grand Seal, mass sacrifice, and viola, the God is back in charge again, and now there is nothing to stop it." He pauses. "But instead, the Messenger goes rogue. Kills its brothers and sisters, and just keeps Citadel going." He shrugs. "No idea why. Either way, I'm still stuck here, with a pain-in-the-ass sentience, and just watching Lightbringer after Lightbringer sacrifice themselves to Citadel. I think that was the Messenger's 'screw you' to the people that hurt her Father."

"Anyway, this is what I wanted to show you. The First Lightbringer and his forces made this, against the Caligo Clarus' wishes. They thought that to stay on top of things, they just needed to know what was happening...so they made this. The Array."

A light goes on and you see...well...it looks like the world's most complex astrolabe. It's all spheres and rings and loops swinging around each other. It's massive, giant in scope, but fits on a small pedestal and is about as big as a cuckoo clock.

"With this, a trained eye can tell what's going on, what will go on, what could go, and what went on. It is everything, connected, in balance, and in harmony with each other. It is never wrong, and perfectly accurate...and totally worthless." He sighs. "Go ahead. Try it out..." He holds up a hand. "Don't use it for anything big."

BE sure to ask how bad things will get when Fifth is in charge at some point.

>>24432946
what will tricia look like in 30 years. First with Citadel's influence, then without.

>>24432946
Define big ...

>>24432946
>"With this, a trained eye can tell what's going on, what will go on, what could go, and what went on. It is everything, connected, in balance, and in harmony with each other. It is never wrong, and perfectly accurate...and totally worthless." He sighs. "Go ahead. Try it out..." He holds up a hand. "Don't use it for anything big."

>>24432975
This, so very much this.

>>24432946
"What is the correct way to insulate a lamia's tail?"

ANSWER ME THAT, MAGIC DEVICE.

Or, if that's not the kind of question it answers, and it's more fact-based:

"Who took that stash of honeycomb I kept under my bed when I was six?"

>>24432975
See that can be something pretty big ...

>>24432946
>a trained eye

which we almost certainly don't have, so this should be interesting.

>>24432993
To us, yes. To the world at large, rather less so.

>>24432993
big I think means long stretching, multiple paths, or complex questions. Single events or outcomes that WILL or MIGHT happens should be alright.

>>24433002
Depends really ... thus why I want him to define 'big'

>>24432946
"..How do I work this thing?"

I imagine we probably could get our and Peace's true name as well.

>>24433033
That's far more useful to our grand plans, and thus more likely to affect things, which makes it pretty big.

>>24432946
"I suppose using it to find out Peace's true name would be too big, since it might help us win?

If so, then how about Tricia's future as a Wasp Witch, with or without Citadel?

And, since I obviously don't have the 'trained eye' you mentioned...how do I work this thing?"

>>24432975
"What will Tricia look like in 30 years?" You say, and then touch a sphere.

A image of a woman you don't know in her mid-50s appears in your mind.

Oh, right. Hah hah. Okay, you got this.

"What will Tricia Greats, who was born in River's Crossing, 18 and a half years ago, look like in 30 years, without Citadel's influence?"

There's a hum, and then you see...a prism refracting six rainbows, a wooden slat that's pained red that has rain beading water upon it, a single sheaf of wheat in a field, twenty eight cactus, and a kiss on your cheek.

"See?" The FIfth said. "It's trying to explain the future, using the now. All those images you saw were things that were..." He shakes his head. "Never mind. It took me way to long to even get it half-way useful."

mmm, I disagree, us and peace being named is a single event. that has already happened.

Asking how to break a Grand Seal on the other hand might be too big, it probably involves multiple people doing multiple things at different points in time.

>>24433056
"I take it nothing of consequence has been predicted with this?"

>>24433056
Sweet Jesus, it's Cuil.

>>24433059
It's certainly worth a try, if he doesn't mind.

"Well, the future is certainly complicated. What about the past? Could I see Peace's true name? Or my own?"

>>24433056
oh this is going to be dificult. TRying to parse how a bloody looking slate, a sheaf of wheat, and a bunch of cactus relates to someones looks is a pain

>>24433093
well, there's red. and yellow. and it's spikey, and maybe green. That might be due to our blood in action.

>>24433093
Not really. She's going to get a bit furry, like a caterpillar. Maybe a stinger.

>>24433093
She'll be spiny, red colored, no idea what the wheat means, and still love us?

>>24433093
Could also be from Tricia's point of view. Seeing what she "looks like".


Or the Fifth Humor just gave us the worlds more useless search engine.

"Do the Dramatae know about this thing?"

don' forget the prism

>>24433123
either represents iridescence, in which case she's shiny, or she's blinged out, or something.

>>24433056
"I take it nothing of consequence has been predicted with this?"

"I was able to get hints of your companions, but even THEN I was wrong." He sighed. "I saw that soul gem that Peri were supposed to be trapped within. I thought that meant you'd get Mari...no idea that you'd get both. Then I saw Tara's necklace...thought she was to be with you, not that she'd be the even that get you with Lea." He shrugs. "The thing is worthless."

"What about the past? Could I see Peace's true name? Or my own?"

He shakes his head. "Try it."

"What is Ssen Patrick, the person touching the array right now, what is her true name?"

A jar opening with a hiss. Three cats meowing at the same time. A jar opening with a hiss. Twelve red books arranged horizontally. A jar opening with a hiss.

"See? That's the right answer, but fat lot of good it does you like that. But I didn't want you to see this because it's working..." He points at a part. It looks like one of the spheres is...off center. "I wanted to show you where it's breaking down. This is a good thing. The Array was part of the reason why the Lightbringer fell to the Newgates, and why the Caligo Clarus sent it here as fast as they could." He sighs. "The world, the land, life in general, should not have a destiny. The future should not be able to be seen. For single people who WANT to muck up their lives with Destiny, more power to them...but not this." He sighs. "That's why this thing breaking is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen." He sighs. "It gives me hope...and since I can actually talk to you, unlike your father. Human brains. Blessing and a curse, but a masterpiece. So, I'm going to make you a bargain.

"You let me take control of the kingdom again, and I'll give you five years before Citadel's magic collapses within on itself.

I admit, you can leave it empty, and that's fine by me. I'd rather no one have it than it be abused like it has been and is...but I want it back.

(Cont)

oh I think I get it, the prism represents her eyes, bug-eyed, that or clear wings (hahaha). The Wheat Sheath probably will be stiff hairs somewhere. The Cactus probably represent spines or colour, and the wet plank is either colour... or she will be moist.

>>24433161
I am waiting for his proposition before I make a decision.

I mean, a land spirit might be nice, if it wasn't being a controlling douchebag. But... can we trust it not to?

>>24433056
Well, none of that seemed blatantly... bad. So I suppose we should ask Fifth what HE sees, and why this is useful or important to us.

>>24433161
Ah, I see. It's Echo's story notes, before we rampage through them. The big picture of the world and all the major details, rough predictions of what'll happen within it, but capable of being completely upturned with a roll of the dice or a crazy idea.

>>24433161
"This isn't a perfect deal for you. I'll be open about that." The Fifth says. "The monsters wont all be getting sentience gradually. It'll just be the random few or people like you who were raised. I will cause disasters, and I will have people die randomly and without cause. I will no longer be aware, or sentient, and the land will be uncaring. The magic will be dispersed as it will be, here there, and heavily in random pockets. Life will be tough.

If you leave me here, alone...well...Citadel will collapse, but all that magic will seep into the land...and things might change. Monsters will be born sentient, the lingering magic of Citadel may prevent a disaster or two, and who knows, maybe things will be better...but Citadel will become a smoking ruin and countless people will die."

He shrugs. "That's my bargain. You don't need to say yes or no, because fat lot of good it does to either one of us at this point...but I'd like to know your feelings on it. I hold no hard feelings. I am the land. I have no empathy, just purpose."

>>24433161
Waiting for the rest of this post before doing anything, but I'd like to know if anyone other than the Fifth can use this thing as it stands right now, or just him.

>>24433238
"On the one hand, I worry every day about what happens when we take down Citadel, and 'smoking ruin' is high on my list of poor outcomes, even though I'd still consider it worth the cost. The idea of a smooth transition is appealing. But I also know what happened to the last people to think it a good idea to remove one spirit and put another in its place, and while you say you're amoral, you do have an agenda, even if it's just to reclaim your territory.

My feelings, as often, are that I hope to learn more before being faced with this decision. But you can be sure that I'll be thinking about it heavily."

>>24433238
"Could any monster, if raised properly, become sentient under your regime? Because even humans aren't BORN sentient."

>>24433238
... this is going to take some thought. Countless people WILL die, "monsters" will gradually be saved, and there will be random cases of good times... or fewer people die but for they'll be shit out of luck, and "monsters" will mostly stay that way.

If you will not be sentient how will you know how to keep Citadel's magic intact for so long?

As far as things no longer being fair, and easy... we will deal.

>>24433238
So burn Citadel to the ground.

Or save some of Citadel but get an uncaring god.

I'm going with burning Citadel to the ground. It seems to have the most benefits ... no gods, no sprites, just mortals with true free will and a true chance.

>>24433287
Actually, screw this.

>>24433238
"As much as I'd like a peaceful and gentle transition, I don't think amorality is necessarily a wonderful thing either. Fair it might be, but awful for everyone is fair. Magic seeping into the land seems like a good thing, and having better luck for everyone in the long run seems preferable to the short-term benefits. We're talking about changing something that will affect the world for ages to come; the next five years will be a blip in history. Doesn't seem like a time for short-term thinking.

But I'll tell you this: the last time a spirit offered me a choice like this, I ended up picking an option it didn't offer. Rest assured I'll be looking for one."

>>24433316
I feel bad for this god, and I'd like to help him, but...

Monsters can't get a fair shake. Their either savages destroying the world or the fodder for endless adventurers. I'd like them to have a chance.

>>24433323
I don't, he doesn't, why should you?

>>24433238
"Is there any way we could help you without making you the lord of these lands? I feel sympathy for you, but I don't know about that deal."

>>24433332
should you what?

there were two concepts of import in the post replied to.

>>24433238
I just realized something. He said us probably not being able to talk to him again was indeed our fault. What if he didn't mean the past, but the future?

He wants this machine to stop working? What happens if we hurry that process along, right now?

>>24433349
>I feel bad for this god, and I'd like to help him, but...

The other part I waved off because I agree with it.

>>24433361
because the guy's in a state of sentience he plainly doesn't want to be in. I mean, at the least, we should alter his seal so he doesn't HAVE to think. If he doesn't want to.

>>24433322
"As much as I'd like a peaceful and gentle transition, I don't think amorality is necessarily a wonderful thing either. Fair it might be, but awful for everyone is fair. Magic seeping into the land seems like a good thing, and having better luck for everyone in the long run seems preferable to the short-term benefits. We're talking about changing something that will affect the world for ages to come; the next five years will be a blip in history. Doesn't seem like a time for short-term thinking."

"It will allow you to evacuate the Citadel that's on open water, and keep the city from burning to the ground." He says.

"I know. But I'll tell you this: the last time a spirit offered me a choice like this, I ended up picking an option it didn't offer. Rest assured I'll be looking for one." You say. "Is there any way we could help you without making you the lord of these lands? I feel sympathy for you, but I don't know about that deal."

"It is the only way I have come up with, and it is the only way I want. That is the truth." The Fifth says. "If you come up with a solution that I find agreeable, then I will take it. But thank you for hearing me out."

"About the Array," You ask. "Does anyone else have access to it?"

"Tragedy." The FIfth says. "Peace cannot touch it as it was made by the first Lightbringer. Comedy cannot reach here, as she is completely an elf, and her dreams are of the Summerlands." He nods. "Tragedy knows of the Array, but I know he finds it as useful as I do. So, he gleans a few things from it."

>>24433398
"Then I have another proposal for you."

Ssen SMASH.

>>24433398
>>24433401
I sort of want to just casually toss it over our shoulder

"S'junk!"

>>24433398
>Comedy cannot reach here, as she is completely an elf, and her dreams are of the Summerlands.

That's wildly useful information. Likely the elf that helped Peace. Thistleblossom, probably.

>>24433371
I just had a thought for a halfway solution. This guy has always been ALL the land.... but spirits can be smaller, like the Bear Tribe. What if we set him free, but only to the area around a certain place, then let the rest of the land change as it will.

>>24433401
"Then I have another proposal for you." You say, and you whip your tail...right through where the Array was...and now it's in a new position.

"You REALLY think I never tried that?" The FIfth says. "Not MOMENTS after the Caligo Clarus sealed it here?" He smiles. "The Array is slightly sentient, it doesn't want to be destroyed, but if it breaks...and the Grand Seal should be the thing that does it, then I'll smash the pieces into pieces when it happens...provided I am returned."

>>24433428
is everything in this world slightly sentient? I've had thoughts that even Beacon might be.

>>24433428
Damn... all these things that shouldn't be sentient.

Well, it sounds like the worst part of any deal is that the monsters get shafted in one, and thousands of people die in the other. A solution for either will help.

>>24433398
"Thanks for what help you've given me. I'm truly sorry about that deal- you know what gravity that has. Maybe we will talk again one day, once my foes are beaten, repentant or in hiding. Or maybe you'll get to rest. I don't know how it works."

>>24433428
So, perhaps what we want is this thing smashed and him *not* returned.

It's somewhat sentient, and very confusing; I'm trying to think of some way to get it to show something that would cause it to self-destruct, but it isn't coming to me. I mean, we could experiment with asking it questions like "show me the point where you're destroyed", or "show men the point where you were created", but those don't seem like fundamental paradoxes.

>>24433428
"Eh, it was worth a try." Smile right back at him.

"If you're not returned; what happens to this device? Will it simple sit here lost to the ages? Or will others be able to find and use it in time?"

>>24433408
I agree, sounds like her, and would fit with what Old One told us.

>>24433419
yeah. something like that was what I had planned. I mean, I'm not against natural disasters or anything like that, but I am against spirits that make us snake folk behave different than we, apparently, do normally with natural magic flow. Which is intelligently? Who knew?

>>24433438
I think that might be the case.

we might be dealing with full on little-spirits shintoism here.

>>24433398
"Frankly, I'm through with meddling spirits, and I don't want to be another one of the people in history who thought it was a good idea to overthrow one spirit and install another. This land should not have a master, whether biased or amoral. And despite that, we'll find a way to save Citadel's people; the disaster you foresee may be no more accurate than your predictions of our companions."

>>24433501
yeah, I am a bit tired of meddling spirits.

I mean, I don't want to deny spirits the right to exist and exert their will or whatever, but for real? chill it out you guys. Just chill.

... I wonder how Passion masks Rachel made while in her fugue under Peace.

>>24433530
I dunno. a lot?

The dramatae really should have been trying to talk to us. I am rapidly running out of my paladin patience meter.

>>24433428
I feel like we're so close to some obvious-in-hindsight orthogonal solution, but it just won't come to me.

The First Lightbringer made the Array. The Caligo Clarus sealed it here. The Fifth has been stuck here *with* it for some reason ever since he got cast out by the first Grand Seal. The second Grand Seal kicked out the Dragon and installed Citadel. We're talking about making a Grand Seal to kick out Citadel's spirit.

What are we missing here about the situation, both right this moment and in the future? What do we want to have happen that the Fifth didn't offer us? We want a peaceful transition *and* we want magic to return to the land and all its people.

>>24433552
what I'm worried about is the fact that magic itself appears to have a tendency to grow sentient.

I'd want some kind of matrix to make it uniform, but that ITSELF might become sentient.

>>24433458
"If you're not returned; what happens to this device? Will it simple sit here lost to the ages? Or will others be able to find and use it in time?"

"It will stop working, and just sit here, unmoving...and then someone with either luck, or too much curiosity will find it...and then we will see what happens wont we?"

"Thanks for what help you've given me. I'm truly sorry about that deal- you know what gravity that has. Maybe we will talk again one day, once my foes are beaten, repentant or in hiding. Or maybe you'll get to rest. I don't know how it works."

The Fifth nods. "I understand. I would be thankful for rest alone. I apologize that I cannot send you to look upon the Dramatae any more." He chuckles. "You want to know something funny? You're not the only one who was spying on them. There's the Fey Court, Old One, some cultists who worship the Dragon, the Phoenix Empire. All of them spy upon the Dramatae, and they LOVE an audience...only now they're looking for you. So I dare not risk it."

He nods. "You are to wake up soon." He pauses. "Thank you. I despise sentience, and feeling...but I find hope rather precious." He says.

>>24433552
what we want is a spirit that just lets everything flow on by....

we want Doped Hippy Spirit.

>>24433580
"Well, I guess I'll go make a whole lot more of it. Where would we be without hope?"

Then say good morning to tricia.

>>24433561
Yeah, we don't want to construct our own god here. We *want* the magic to dissipate into everything.

What if we installed a mortal to oversee the transition, and made sure they stayed mortal? Then they couldn't stay in power long-term. Still very abuseable, though.

I wonder if the Fifth has always been (though not sentient), or if there was a time where the land didn't have a spirit?

>>24433580
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the solution here is some way to destroy the Array, send the Fifth to his rest, and not put any spirit in power.

>>24433580
One important question we never really asked. Where is "here"? It's somewhere the Caligo Clarus could seal this thing, so it can't just be a pocket dimension outside of reality that only spirits can get to. Can we find this place?

>>24433580
And with that, we close today's two-thread session. I have three straight days of work ahead of me, so next thread will be:

Saturday, April 27th, 12-2pm PST

Sorry for the long delay. Hope to see you then, may His Light be with you all.

>>24433605
I don't know if there's ever been a time without a land spirit.

I'd be fine with keeping him around if I could still raise baby lamias to be intelligent. We never got an answer on if that would work.

>>24433623
Alrighty then. Thanks for the thread Echo. Have a good one.

>>24433623
okay, good bye and good luck echo. have a restful sleep. It was a great session. oh god no lamias for 3 days

I hope you guys join me on the discussion thread over on tgchan tomorrow, there's a good deal to talk about.
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/69825.html

>>24433623
Thank you for the awesome threads today, Echo. And thanks for picking that particular stopping point. Now we've got several days to try to think of a bright idea, because I do think we're missing something.

I'm curious if you have any idea in mind yourself, though obviously we'll have to find one ourselves.

In any case, I'm hoping the next thread starts with our parting from the Fifth and a last chance to consider, rather than with us waking up. Hopefully at least one of us will come up with something.

>>24433642
I sort of like how much time we have to decide most things. Only very, very rarely does the quick-quick leviathan brain get caught with NO ideas.

maybe our ideas will even get less stupid as we age and gain experience.

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/69825.html
someone set up a discussion thread here, noticed it a while back. Honestly I'm surprised, that site is usually treated like the plague.

>>24433623
Another awesome pair of threads Echo, will see you Saturday.

>>24433664
well, it's either that or talk about it in quest thread generals.

Seriously, who do I talk to about lamia quest outside of lamia quest threads? Nobody that's who. It's a shame.

>>24433651
oh, speaking of this:

the 5th mentioned we had an aesymmetrical brain. Half dragon half leviathan?

>>24433664
>that site is usually treated like the plague
There's good reason for that.

>>24433675
>Seriously, who do I talk to about lamia quest outside of lamia quest threads? Nobody that's who. It's a shame.

Not really. As much fun as this quest is. Personally, rather keep it all in these threads and not discuss out of them.

>>24433690
I think we should discuss in the threads where available, but darn man. I sometimes lie in bed at night and get the best idea for these things, and have nowhere to put it.

No offense Story-Stitcher but you might be trying to find a secret passage when really you just tapping at a brick wall.

The pick a third option thing doesn't always work out. Even if we do find one there is still the fact that it could have unforseen consequences. Of course this is just my opinion. Feel free to continue with your brainstorming. Who knows you might even prove me wrong and a quitter. Just thought I should put in my two cents

>>24433712
there's always more options. It's just... they might not be so good.

For instance: we COULD run away from all this with tricia and raise a family.

>>24433707
It's called a notepad by your clock.

And the fact you lie in bed and think about these things says a few things. Things I will not comment on.

>>24433712
The two options in front of us both have good and terrible aspects. Put another spirit in charge (even an amoral one), get a peaceful transition, but to a highly suboptimal result for many. Or, have a rough transition with Citadel becoming a smoking crater, but the rest of the world seems likely to do better. We'd *like* to find an option that saves Citadel's people *and* the "monsters", casts out the Citadel spirit and puts none in its place, and returns the magic to the land rather than leaving it in anyone's control.

I think there has to be a way to do that.

.... if you enjoy something I'd hope you think about it occasionally.

>>24433736
Man you don't know the things I've lied in bed thinking about.

I get the dumbest ideas on the dumbest topics sometimes. But sometimes, I get choco-waffles.

>>24433747
honestly?

I think we just need to do a full evacuation of citadel. There's just too many people in one place. They can barely be supported by the entire continent working in concert.

>>24433747
>I think there has to be a way to do that.

Sometimes ... there just isn't. It's either sacrifice one city to have this little bit of the world be better or get an uncaring god to save a bunch of people that might not be happy about being saved.

>>24433767
you at all up for the evacuation plan? Because that place is just going to be crawling with disease inside of a few months.

especially with all those dead worshippers piling up.

>>24433767
And if it turns out there isn't, then people in the future will be offering tours of the smoking ruin of Citadel. But we have to keep fighting for the possibility as long as we can.

>>24433764
Or some other option that involves us changing things before taking Citadel, yeah. I kinda doubt we can stage an evacuation, but something like that could work.

...OK, ratcheting up the crazy a few notches: we could somehow get all of Citadel raised up as an army and marching *outside* the city, then take it down.

Now this may just be me thinking of the most depressing possible possibilities. But if Citadel collapses in flames and chaos, thousands die etc.

Won't that make it look like a broken land ripe for conquest. We'd rather not accidentally serve the whole kingdom up on a platter to the Phoenix Empire in the process. It IS an empire after all, empires like conquering weak neighbours, that's how they become empires.

where are all those people going to go?

>>24433786
I wonder if the Phoenix Empire still has any spirits around? They cast out their equivalent of the Dragon, its followers now hold all the power they used to cast it out and wield it like an iron fist, but is there a spirit still there?

>>24433776
No. Not really. If the people there are even half as mad as some of those passions. Let them rout I say.

Also has a point >>24433787 Citadel is what's letting these people live really. I doubt there's enough land for that many people even spread out.

>>24433747
And that would be nice. However I think that is a case of trying to do to much. Not to mention the story parallels. The Fifth was kicked out because someone wanted to stack the deck. Thus the dragon was created and bound.

This was not a good idea, then the Lightbringer kicked out the Dragon and the Citadel was formed. It just feels like we're trying to do the exact same thing that we were saying we're not going to do. That we want to have our cake and eat it too. Greed can be a dangerous thing, especially since we already knew what kicking out the Citadel would require. Now we're trying to subvert it all and get the perfect ending with no downsides? Sound a little familiar?

>>24433787
well, the sum population of citadel could be supported by the continent BEFORE all this happened. If we broke citadel down and sent a fraction of it to every city other than citadel, maybe leaving a single fraction in citadel as a normal city... maybe that could work.

>>24433786
>phoenix empire
Ugh. Those guys. We need to make friends with some mers and leviathans. They easily, EASILY can rape boats to death, and without boats there can be no invasion.

well, easily if they're anything like lamias.

>>24433804
So you want to send people that left Stone Hall and Bronze Peak because they hated change back? People that barely know how to live with out Citadel.


What great idea ...

>>24433799
This this this. We've seen this story already and seen how it turns out.

>>24433822
eh, I'd probably shuffle them around again. The problem isn't that they don't know how to live without citadel, there'll be a percentage of those in most of our cities. It's that they're all concentrated in one place without people who CAN live without citadel.

>>24433799
We don't want to stack the deck; the Dragon and Citadel both represent ongoing control and shepherding, which we don't want. We want to return the magic to the land and let things happen as they will, which we think will give a result we want for the most part. We just care about fixing two things in that plan, in order of importance: letting rain fall on Citadel from time to time without having it collapse catastrophically, and making sure nobody can take over again by getting rid of the Array.

Ssen:

Break citadel, kill all spirits, smash the phoenix empire, destroy surrounding empires, establish serpent noble lines to try to guide the world.

Eventually toss yourself from the tallest cliff in the land, since you were supposed to retire 1,700 years ago.

>>24433841
>>24433799
the main thing we have to worry about I think:

How do we make sure a new god doesn't form out of the latent magic once we kill citadel?

>>24433834
From the way it's told through out the story ... Citadels population is stupidly high. Like out numbering all the other major cities together by a large sum. What was once the Majority in a city would become a minority over night.

>>24433828
I think you're reading more into that story than is there. It definitely tells us not to put a biased spirit in place, and possibly not to put a spirit in place at all, but remember what we heard at the beginning of the conversation. We need to win, and *keep* winning. Citadel becoming a crater doesn't feel like winning, and the amoral spirit taking over doesn't feel like continuing to win.

>>24433858
well, I'm going to tell you the truth here. I'm not optimistic on the survival numbers of trying to evacuate citadel.

>>24433864
I wonder what the lightbringer is doing right now. Is adahn even able to get suffeciently angry to continue his quest without a rage there, expertly guiding him?

I wonder if such sacrifices generate new magic in the world.

>>24433864
We've been trying to break this story of cycles this enter time. Trying to break the tropes Citadel has made.

Letting Citadel burn to ground is a win in my book.

It's what comes after that matters more to me. Keeping sprites from playing with the land again, keeping people from going ape shit on each other also.

>>24433883
I wonder how we would be rememebered if we just... didn't touch citadel. We journeyed in the outlying cities, gave our messages, talked to people, but didn't have anything directly to do with its fall.

Because I don't want to be remembered as snake hitler.

>>24433857
This amoral-yet-not-agendaless spirit would abuse Citadel's magic on our behalf to try to make things nicer for the transition. But I think the whole idea of Citadel's magic seeping into the land is that all the bias thrown Citadel's way has to balance out, and if we spread around the concentrated luck that has kept it afloat, it'll make everything as good as it *should* be except Citadel itself. And Citadel itself just isn't sustainable with ordinary luck. The question becomes, can we help Citadel go away in its current form without sudden collapse, the way we're helping Stone Hall and Bronze Peak?

>>24433891
Godwind, really?

Remember were not playing the hero here. The Hero would right all wrongs and save all the people. We're just trying to fix the damn land. Get things working on how reality works again. That means people die. Time get stiff upper lip.

>>24433895
There's just too many people for what we have, I believe. Therefore: we must find more, or use what we have better.

We never did find out what was in that southern desert. Nobody ever seemed to want to investigate.

Also, who knows how much good roads entirely free of wild monsters could do?

>>24433906
OR snake Stalin. Whatever we do, however we burn citadel, we must do something superlatively grand afterwards. Perhaps for hundreds of years.

I don't want our struggle to make monsters equal and things fair again to ultimately result in all the monsters and everybody getting together EXCEPT LAMIAS, LOOK HOW TERRIBLE THEY WERE.

>>24433924
>snake Stalin

Just as bad man.

>we must do something superlatively grand afterwards. Perhaps for hundreds of years.

You mean do our job?

>monsters equal and things fair again

That's never going to happen period. We've been aiming to give everyone a chance. Give people free will with their lives. Not make things equal and fair.

>>24433911
Yeah, if nothing else we've got a lot more leads to chase down before we need to make this decision. Assuming there isn't something crucial we can do here and now, in this odd little space with the Fifth.

>>24433960
wrong "fair". I mean give everyone the chance. As in nobody is automatically rar-monster any more than they are naturally, like citadel and the dark dragon, and the fifth even, he claims, did.

I mean equal in the same way. everyone should get the chance to be people.

Fair resource distribution? forgeddaboutit.

>>24433979
Then what happens, happens. It's simple as that.

Trying to push for more will end badly for us.

>>24433961
Loads of leads to chase down. So many. Mage might be rubbing off on me, because I'm starting to regret getting our job changed from "hunter".

>>24433990
Letting Citadel collapse into the sea isn't fair in that sense for the people of Citadel. They built on the resources they saw available, which happened to be biased in their favor. A transition away from that to something where they don't get everything on a platter would be harsh but fair, and it would result in the "destruction" of Citadel in its current form but not necessarily the deaths of huge numbers of its people. Pulling the rug out from under it and letting it immediately collapse with all hands aboard doesn't seem fair, though, and that's what we'll supposedly get with the solution we'd otherwise prefer.

>>24433990
About right for the first half, but I remind you that pushing for better is basically our entire job. We don't have to take deals with dubious semi-devils like the fifth to do it, and sometimes we might fail, but pushing for more has its merits.

Like harpy accountants.

I hope we get "the mad" "the brash" "the insane" or any of those as a title soon.

>>24434058
As long as Isen doesn't officially dub is "the sexy" I don't mind.