I don't even know what Riddle of Steel is.

I liked you better when you were fucking greek serving boys.

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>>24111312

>>24111246
Did you listen to us? Is there monster climbing cyclops killing griffon wrasslin' action? Because I came here to wrassle griffons.

>>24111288

It is an RPG.

It is also a slang term for stabbing your opponent in the dick, based on how effectively that wins fights in the RPG.

>>24111288
It was a very cool, but very flawed game that we all loved, that emphasized kickass gritty combat above all else. And man, did it kick ass.
Problem was, it was basically half of a game, and its supplements had a rapid drop in quality, the company choked to death on its own blood, etc.

We're not just some leeches come to make a buck off of a quick remake, we're here to recapture what made Riddle of Steel good, but implement it in a superior, more polished, more expansive and balanced game.

>>24111312
You people have long memories. I guess that's a good thing.

Well I hope it fucking works out. Because Riddle of Steel deserves to work properly.

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>>24111362
Not only did we listen to you, we almost named the game after the idea. We're trying hard to facilitate what we know people want from the game.

A lot of people, perhaps even most, want the game to stay true to its roots as a meaty combat simulator, so that they can play in Historical Europe or low-magic settings where there are no elves and whales that shoot lasers out of their eyes floating around. And I empathize with that, it's how I've always run games.

At the same time... You know. Laser Whales. Fantasy is awesome, and while I for one have mostly run low-fantasy games, I've had a ton of fun in high-fantasy ones, so we want to facilitate you guys doing whatever you want with the game, and not just in word, but in deed. Rules, suggestions for alterations given fantasy-level, magic, we're going the full distance.

Btw I have this picture, was this one of you? Because high five to you.

Is there going to be a free version? You said there was going to be a free version.

>>24111554
Kickstarter. That should answer your questions.

>>24111246
>Now some of you might recall that the project was to be called Sword of the Heavens. Now, this is true, but about two weeks into production we noticed that someone was already making a RoS remake called Blade of the Iron Throne. Now we were pretty butthurt about that, because it was, you know, basically our name except cooler sounding, so after a week of hard drinking, we shifted gears. The project is now called Esoterica. Same spirit, different name, that's business.
That sounds worse.

>>24111554
There's going to be an SRD. A website where all of the rules are available for everyone who wants them, and similar PDFs that will allow everyone and their grandmother who has a tablet, laptop or whatever to accustom themselves to the rules without shelling out cash for a book their group already has.

There will however be a 'full' version of the game that will be a pleasure to own and read worth its cost. I still read my old Hunter: The Reckoning book on plane rides, and it isn't because I'm planning a campaign.

Besides, you're probably just going to pirate it anyway. It's 2013, information control is no longer practical.

>>24111610
You're going to have to be a bit more specific.

>>24111422
What's changed significantly about the game? I only played it once at a game day, it didn't seem to bad to me.

>>24111676
>SRD

Who's awesome? You. You are awesome.

>>24111706
He's probably talking about Esoterica. It's almost as bad as Nobilis.

>>24111765
Except unlike Nobilis, you'll be able to do something with Esoterica besides decorate your coffee table.

Wait, some other group already was trying to do an RoS remake before Galt's team even got started?

>>24111743
I don't really want to delve into an in-depth mechanical discussion of the game (that's a lie, I do, but I'm not allowed to) but suffice to say, we've fixed everything.

Skills were a big one. the skill system was, we felt, only about half done in Riddle of Steel. We scrapped the system entirely and made our own. It's much more functional, and much more in line with the rest of the game.

Proficiencies are totally different. I mean totally, totally different. Each proficiency is now a multi-choice tree that spreads out in a grid that you buy your way along with experience points. Each dot on the grid gives something different, be it points that add into your combat pool when using that proficiency, new maneuvers, or talents/stances/passive effects. Each grid connects into Specializations, and eventually Masteries, which are refinements of the style.

So you have ye generic 2H Sword proficiency, that then narrows into Longsword, that then narrows into Lichtenauer, that sort of thing. The grids are fucking big, and there are several of them. We jokingly call that section of the document Optimization Hell.

What else...

>>24111846
I don't know if it was before we got started, but definitely before we were a real company. I try not to look at their work out of professional courtesy. Last I checked though, their kickstarter has succeeded, so the more power to them.

>>24111894

Are you guys at least sticking to d10s and d6s for the system? Because I would really hate to have to buy some really obscure die like a d64 for the sake of this.

>>24111798
I think it's more the name of it than anything. Esoterica sounds like something you'd use for a poncy Unknown Armies rip-off where you play as Vice-Baronet Chauncy Williams, Wielder of Victrolamancy.

But, I'm sure you guys had your reasons for the name.

>>24111526
>mfw I get to play Dragons Dogma the RPG
I can't find my face.

>>24111894
Does the system have better support for things like being a Sengoku-era samurai or an Ottoman Janissary?

>>24111969
D10s and... Maybe not even D6s. Like, we're redoing all the wound tables because of reasons *cough*proprietaryterminology*cough*, but we're not sticking anything crazy in there. D10s, maybe D6s. Nothing else.

And... Yeah, I know about the name. It feels a lot more touchy-feely and mystical than I think any of us wanted, but Sword of the Heavens was giving me Quest for Lost Heroes flashbacks, and then the Blade guys came out and we flipped our shit.

Worse comes to worse, we'll add a colon and a cool subtitle and it'll be fine. And besides, the name's related, the last tier of proficiency stuff is called Esoterica.

>>24112092
Not that guy, but the first comment. I was referring to the name, Sword of the Heavens sounds better.

>>24112092

Awesome, that's what I was hoping for. I got briefly excited when I saw Blade of the Iron Throne, but then lost interest the moment I realized it was a d12 system.

Soon as I can get a copy in my hands, I'll be press-ganging folks to play.

I'm not 100% sure I like the way you said you guys did proficiencies. I liked how simple the math was, in how Prof + Reflex was your Combat Pool, and that was it.
Is that still how it'll all work (with some added stuff), or is it THAT different?

>>24112092
Quick thing about this: Sorry about the John Galt name, we've got a communal computer here and one of those stupid autofill things. The man is not present.

About >>24112086
Yes. We're planning on releasing sourcebooks for every locale and period of history that looks even remotely cool. Ottoman Turkey is boss as hell, and Japan is basically mandatory because everyone loves Japan.

30 Years War Europe? Also happening. Napoleanic France? Sure. It's just a matter of time before we get to everything. Ideally a lot of these will be first-day releases. We don't want to bulk out the core book too much, of course.

>>24112113
I'll bring it up with the lads. You never know. We're just worried (Reasonably, I'd say) about two games being released with similar names and similar mechanics, at about the same time, both of which are ripo-er, creatively inspired by the same game.

Like, ours is going to be better, of course, because we sacrificed more oxen, but it'd still be weird. I would prefer to go back to Sword of the Heavens, because I suggested the name. I can't overrule the rest of the team though, and their reasoning was kind of sound.

>>24112268
Hold on, going to answer you in another post in case I ramble on a bit, because this is a highly relevant question.

>Riddle of Bronze
Stop. The. Fucking. Presses.

>>24111246
I've heard mentions of this project before, and I am interested. The description of your game of "low fantasy interesting melee combat" sounds massively appealing,

I just have one concern: I don't know anything about Riddle of Steel. Now, the other product you mentioned, Blade of the Iron Throne, seems very intent on being "the next Riddle of Steel" or something of that sort. That doesn't really mean anything to me.

My question is: does knowing Riddle of Steel be necessary or helpful for your game? Will it be understandable from an new-to-system, not-new-to-RPGs person?

Also, is it going to be anything like Burning Wheel's complex combat system, with a huge ass chart and multiple little charts depicting all the possible little different things you can do?

>>24112350
Thanks.

>>24112268
It's a bit more complicated. However, it is still just two numbers you add together. Proficiencies are a lot deeper, as in, there might be a whole page of your character sheet devoted purely to them. However, there's still an analogue for Prof which is Pool, and Pool+Reflex is CP. So it works the same way, you just get the first number from a larger subsystem.

The reason for all of this really is to let characters vary more. You can work your way through a proficiency with a lot of freedom, and we're working really hard to make sure that there are no objectively superior Proficiency Builds. No Ivory Tower stuff here, I promise.

This does mean that two guys with longswords could be as different in this game as a guy with a knife and a guy with a flail were in RoS. It does mean an increase in complexity, however. I think when you get there, you'll like what we've done with it, it's still an elegant system, it's just expansive with a lot of potential for choice.

>>24112456
So basically, we could have German longsword and Italian longsword as similar-but-noticeably-different styles.

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>Sons of Galt

Please say this is about adventuring in the post-Atlas Shrugged apocalypse as objectivist and collectivist factions battle for ideological supremacy.

>>24112456
Not really related to your post, but is there a way to play TRoS/Esoterica with only d6es?

Some of us in fuckingnowhereslavistan can't really get more than 3d10 (that is, if 6 people pool their dice together.)

Having an option to play with only d6es would be good.

I like what you're doing, so far, or I'm easily swayed by honeyed words.

>>24112531
Yes. Plus the ability to stab people in the dick.

>>24112381
Hi pal. Glad you like the sound of the game. Here's my word on the subject.

While knowing Riddle of Steel would definitely make the game a bit easier to pick up, we do not assume knowledge or competence with that game for our players. Combat might be a bit daunting for people new to RPGs, but I don't think it's more complicated than, say, D&D past 3rd Edition. We're working hard to make the rules clear, understandable, and provide a lot of examples.

I can't speak for Burning Wheel, because I haven't played it, though I've read the core book before. I don't know how complex it is in play. I do know that we don't really have a lot of charts. Each thing you can do in combat is self-contained, and doesn't involve a complex list of effects and countereffects.

You will probably be referencing a lot of Wound Charts, though.

>>24112268 here.

>>24112456
Ah, ok. I was afraid you'd went and done something dumb. That sounds awesome, and I think I'll really like it when you guys release.
Thanks a ton.

>>24112531
Hold on, I'm adding this to my campaigns-to-run list.

>>24112572
You know, this actually came up in a way earlier. One of our writers is more of an online gamer, and pointed out that the traditional method of RoS combat involves hiding a die in each hand and then dropping one on the count of three.

And how the hell does one do that on a message board without potential cheatyfacing? So, he proposed that we make a little suplimentary doc to help people who play online.

We could make one for playing with different die types as well, I'll suggest someone get on that. Since it's a mostly unified system (I.E., 99% of things use the D10) changing it to something else would be a lot easier than trying to make all of D&D run on D8s or something.

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>>24112587
>wound charts

>>24112683
>he proposed that we make a little suplimentary doc to help people who play online.
>help people who play online
FUCK YES THANK YOU SO MUCH OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU

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>it's happening.

>>24112743
You're welcome, brother. It's the digital age. We owe it to the people who play our game to help them play it the way they want.

Are there going to be elves?

>>24112683
Thanks for keeping an eye out for the fanbase.

My quickhack would have been 1-2 = 1; 3-4 = 2; 5-6 = 3; 7-8 = 4; 9=5; 10=6, but this would shit on pretty much everything 5-8...

>>24112879
Seriously, though. You guys are cool dudes.
I will definitely be pledging on your kickstarter.

>>24112285
Excellent. Will be nice to not necessarily have to pick and guess for a samurai's non-katana equipment.

>>24112906
Yes, but not faggot blonde hippy elves...

No really, we're writing an example fantasy setting to go along with the example medieval one. The creative decision was made early on that we were going to have elves, but that because we don't suck, they were going to be a race with multiple cultures that is more than just a pair of goofy ears on a human. I'm not going to delve too deeply into it, but we've tried to take this approach with all of the fantasy-races we implemented. None of them are a monolithic racial culture, they're all split up, just like humans are.

>>24112573

That's perfect, all I ever wanted to do when I read that book is stab everyone in the dick.

>>24112683

>campaigns-to-run list

You'd have to play as members of the downtrodden who band together to survive after the collapse. Everyone in Galt's paradise is too convinced of their natural superiority and individualism to band together into a party.

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>>24112683
I am completely new and not knowledgeable in any way about RoS or your project so I'm not sure if its going to include rules about other things besides melee combat but do things like bows/crossbows/arbalests/slings factor in at all? Will they have their own proficiency trees?

Someday I will get to create a character that specializes in chucking pots filled with scorpions at people...

>>24113075
Post-apocalyptic gaming based on bad literature is an old flame of mine. It's how I met Galt in person for the first time, in a (don't laugh,) Dies the Fire campaign of Riddle of Steel. Not even joking. The premise (everything fun vanishes overnight, fuck you, survive) is pretty cool when separated from the at times cringe-worthy writing. It was good times, and I guess in a way it's what resulted in me working on this project.

Never thought I'd be thankful to Stirling for anything.

>>24113121
Oh definitely. Bows, crossbows, arbalests, slings, javelins, darts, we're even trying to find data on a naptha squirtgun someone saw in an Opsrey illustration that looked fucking bomb as hell.

And in supplements set past the appropriate time, of course we're gonna cover guns. Riddle of Steel was rather lacking, I felt, for its sparse coverage of the evolution of firearms in Flower of Battle. We will take no such luxuries, exhaustive research is going into this stuff. I've actually fired a hand-bombard before. It was awful.

>>24113022
I swear to God if I see one entry on wooden armour...

>>24113145

That's a point.

I don't want to completely strawman it into "normal people versus Ayn Rand folks" though. Maybe her intellectually devoid cronying Last Man-esque rabble is still there as an equally corrupt and evil force, the PCs are just people who exist somewhere in the middle and are trying to escape being pressured from both sides?

And then everyone gets stabbed in the dick forever, of course.

>>24113297
I'll be fine with an entry on wooden armor if it's specifically to debunk it as a common myth.

>>24113060
On this note, in Riddle of Steel races were part of the letter system in Character Creation. I.E., you had races there were objectively superior to others, such that you had to take them in place of having an A in attributes or skills or whatever.
Is that true here as well?

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>>24113297
But wooden armour exists dude. W-w-why do you hate it.

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>>24113228
>Play mediterranean pirate campaign
>Character Weapon Specialization: Naptha Flamethrower

Oh yesss. I can see that just fine.

>>24113353
This is true, but JAPANESE armor is commonly believed to have been wooden, which is a myth (it was generally leather and iron, and occasionally steel).

>>24113452
Well, I think than they used a kendo armour made of fabric and bambu for kendo, as protection. I don't find that outlandish than some Ashigaru had it as main armour.

>>24113297
Oh ye of little faith, we might be a bunch of drunken jackasses, but we do have library cards. We'll do every place we focus on justice, that's a problem. No romanticist silliness either, just the facts, and a useful portrayal that'll make for a good game.

>>24113352
We're not really doing a letter system anymore. A point-buy system is in place, it's a lot more versatile and smooth.
Regarding your actual question... Yeah. Some races require a points investment, which I suppose means that on simple racial merits, they are superior. The human advantage comes in the fact that it doesn't cost points, and so you can put those points to good use buying up stats or skills or talents.

>>24113483
Nah, ashigaru armor was also iron and leather. Even those conical hats ashigaru wear were made of iron, functioning basically as kettle helms.

>>24113483
Yeah but that's kendo. I'm talking about actual MILITARY armor.

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>>24113543
>>24113560
B-b-but my ancient Nippon warriors.

>>24113321
I've noticed that increasingly, it's become a habit of game designers to try and make a game such that all the ideologies represented by each of the game's choices has some "merit," so that they can make a claim of moral ambiguity. So that the player's choices matter.

The thing is, I never see it that way. You can always tell that the designers favored one side over the other, and as such tilted the scales to one side's favor rather than approaching the matter honestly. Fallout New Vegas comes to mind.

I guess I'm saying that I agree. The players being regular people surrounded by lunatics is the norm, but having them be surrounded by lunatics among whom you can find no 'good guy' is the best situation. A lot easier in tabletop games, I think.

>>24113610
God damn it osprey there's iron armor even from THAT era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KofunCuirass3.jpg

Uuuuuugh, the Caesar's Legion debacle. Seriously guys, did they have to be cannibal rapists too?

Mass combat, y/n?

>>24113676
>implying they weren't the best force in the Mojave, and you know it

>>24113705
Seconding. Will 2v2, or even 4v8 combats last less than 5 hours (exaggerating for the sake of exaggerating)?

>>24113705
Of course. There will be provision for it in the core book, and we're already planning a supplement to layer on detail, from the logistical side of things to the combat itself, potentially with characters leading units themselves, with the units gaining qualities as they gain experience in battle.

We all read a lot of Berserk around here. You know. Because it's awesome. So the idea of a Mercenary Company campaign hit us early in the process, and we want to make it easy, and fun. It's going to be a bit harder to establish realism in military-scale engagements, though, but we're trying our best.

>>24113798
Oh, you mean like multi-man contests. Sorry, I thought we were talking about war.

Yes. In fact, we started writing the combat system with that in mind. The way it works now is that at the beginning of combat, the fastest characters initiate "Bouts" by running towards whoever it is they want to fight. Characters then join or start new bouts as they move down the list of fastest to slowest. These bouts will consist of 2 to 6 people, and will then play out in a sort of initiative order themselves, each going through a few Clashes (attack/defense, defense/attack, refresh) before moving on to the next Bout. The way in which multiple people act is also ruled out thoroughly.

It sound a bit complicated, but the codification of the system means that there's no ambiguity, confusing rulings, or general clusterfuckery that there was in Riddle of Steel. Most combats will still be 1v1 just because we suspect that's how people will want to do it, but the option is definitely there, and there are provisions for characters locking themselves into a group so that they have to be engaged as a group.

We've also gone to lengths to make missile combat make more sense in these sort of contests, with them trying to stay out of Bouts and having their own spot in the Bout Initiative cycle to take actions like maneuvering, shooting/throwing, or joining conflicts.

>>24113799
>Berserk
I assume there will be a chapter on Bags?

>>24113910
In what way is this better than just having an initiative order?

Right, another fucking kickstarter.

>>24114025
That's tricky to explain. Basically, the way combat works requires that the people fighting each other act at the same time, and the game gets extremely tedious if you have each person, or even each group of people, only take one action before moving to the next person/group.

The best way, we found, was to have each subcombat enjoy a short flurry of activity before moving on to the next group. I think the Blade of the ron Throne guys are doing something similar. It's the conclusion everyone who plays the game comes to eventually.

>>24114059
Egads, you mean we weren't the FIRST to try kickstarting a /tg/ related game and telling the people on /tg/ about it!? Oh man, I knew I should've made this announcement yesterday, now we've missed the curve.

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I've been waiting a long time for this.

>>24114132
But how are you guys going to handle something like two guys facing down one, without the use of Terrain Checks?

>>24114259
Like, if two Player Characters are fighting one particularly hardass guy, but you won't have him make a Terrain Check to fight only one, because that'd make one of the Player Characters completely useless.

>>24114217
Some guys just don't like that Kickstarter seems to be a requirement for EVERYTHING these days, I guess.

>>24114259
We just wrote rules for attacking and defending against multiple people that are more extensive than "you divide your pool between them." Now there are maneuvers for it, rules for how it works and who hits first if you have A attacking B, B attacking C, and C attacking A, how to establish an order, how to determine who is aggressive against whom when everyone attacked 2-3 people last turn, whether or not you can block multiple attacks with the same weapon or shield, how to deal with people trying to outflank you, and how to do the RoS standard where you try to outmaneuver them so that you only have to fight one guy--which we call Threading the Needle.

The challenge was making it comprehensible to regular human beings, but I think we've done a good job. It's still in polishing, we never put a system in the final book until we've run 150 tests of it and found nothing wrong, but I think we've got it down.

>>24114308
I understand. And I didn't really mean that to be mocking, we were all very skeptical of kickstarter as well. I assure you, if we had the startup capital to just do this, we would.

Once we decided that we were doing it, we decided to do it right, and actually offer people something for their investments beyond downloading a PDF in different colors. We've got some professional pride, and we take our commitments seriously.

>>24114399
Here's hoping it comes out okay--that's something that really crippled RoS for non-dueling situations.

Speaking of fantasy...are the Hef still around, or did you ditch the smelly rape-ogres?

>>24114492
Excuse me?

>>24114492
Bersekr feel? I like this.

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>>24114492
DUN DUN DUNNNN

>>24114505
Riddle of Steel's default fantasy setting had a race of ogre-ish beastmen called the Hef, who literally had to reproduce via rape because they couldn't breed with each other.

>>24114527
Speaking of it, a bersekr like Bestiary might be one of the coolest things ever.
>>24114567
Liek the Warhammer Ymir? Man, those were the times when WH was truly great.

>>24114582
Basically.

Oh--the Hef also didn't just rape humans, they could mate with ANYTHING and make variant Hef. You ended up with something like a cross between the Ymir and the Kroot from 40k.

>>24114619
Those are Broos then, glorantha default chaff enemie. They are rape beastman who can mate with nearly everything (even in rare cases, wood). Even buttsex with a broo end with pregnacy.

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>>24114492
We've been thinking about it. On the one hand, we're Berserk fans, so obviously we were less horrified at the concept at base. I for one understand the role they play in the setting. They're disgusting, they play to multiple human fears, and they're impossible to empathize with.

On the other hand, they're disgusting, play to multiple human fears, and are impossible to empathize with. I don't think we'll be keeping them. Well, certainly not them at base, because they were in original Riddle of Steel and are I guess intellectual property of Driftwood. Something similar to them may be included... I don't know. I do know we joked about having the "0 AD" analogue in the fantasy setting be a Hef Apocalypse, but that was in jest. It was in jest, right guys?

>>24114659
Hee, if this game could be used for Glorantha this would be even more awesome.

>>24114668
"In this, the Yeare Aftere Heffe 1271, we didst burn many cattle founde withe clawmarkes for feare of theire profane offspringe ravishing our livestocke, crops, ande wives."

>>24114699
>Death Duck vs Vinga rune lord.
YESSS. Also magic will changes or it's still the same?

>>24114699
I actually ran a King of Dragon Pass themed game early on in my Riddling career. Those were good times, going on heroquests, cattle raids, getting killed by trolls... Ahh. You can be certain that that's the sort of game precisely that we want to facilitate.

>>24112587
I'm the guy you responded to.

Cool. I'm ok with wound charts. I'm just not ok with rock paper scissors lizard spock zimbabwe every time I want to fight something.

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>>24114751
Oh God, right, that's something we need to talk about. Magic.

Ok I'm going to get a drink before I start this spiel, because this one's going to be good. Go get an orange or something guys.

>>24113799
Ever read Stolze's REIGN?

Might the Company rules aid in this?

>>24114845
Oh yeah, we've read Reign. I for one loved it. It's a genius book, and it was responsible for our Currency system, using a more abstract Wealth Level than a hard number in coins and such. I know a lot of people get turned off by that, but it's a lot easier than tracking wealth in closer detail.

As for companies, it's an intriguing idea, and something like it may well have a place in our system.

>>24114788
At least you didn't get caught with the broos. One time our GM used a little variety of broos because we fucked with some deity (a bit of homebrew). They were tiny, more or less a bit little than mouses. Swarms of them dude. They rape everything. The lil broos also matured extemely fast. They rape your arm, in a few turns it's another broo trying to rape you, after let you with a huge wound were the lil fucker born. You end in a not so much turns with holes all over you body while more of them are trying to fuck the shit out of you, until you fall. And more rape.
Fuck that was a hard night.

>>24114824
Well, now I'm interested.

>>24114824
Right, Magic. So, this is the only part of the game where we've genuinely stalled, I guess because it necessarily requires that everything else be more or less in place first before we start integrating it. Magic is important. Everyone except for the most diehard Historical Campaigners are going to want it, and it's our duty to deliver it.

Our solution was to create a set of Mystic Stats, derived attributes that are determined by the character's core attributes. These stats are then interpreted and applied by three separate magic systems.

Pyromancy, which is communion with the 'inner flame' and is essentially Life-Magic. It involves feeding bits of your memories, personality and humanity to a hungry lizard-brain spirit in return for power.

Sorcery, which is the observation and control of the 'background magic' of the cosmos, which is highly technical and mechanical. It is also very 'safe', but also less powerful than the other two.

Thamaturgy, or "Chaos Magic," involves the invocation of powerful spirits (and gods) to work wondrous effects, at the risk of dragging something out of the spirit-world or worse (much, much worse) dragging oneself in.

Each is distinct, very cool, and flavorful. Balance is a big concern of ours, as is the modular nature of the system. We want players to be able to plug in or remove any aspect of the game beyond its hard center without screwing anything up.

Most importantly, these three are the proofs of concept. If we can make these, then we can make more.

>>24115071
Not bad, not bad. Though I seem to remember that Riddle magic was specifically meant to be UNBALANCED.

>>24114957
Jesus Christ. Fucking Broos.

>>24115071
Anyway, I might've given you the impression that we're sort of caught up on these subsystems, and the truth is that yes, we are, but that's because we're determined to make this shit modular. If we don't, then you'd end up having four derived attributes for each kind of magic. What if someone wants to use more than one kind? How the hell does that work? Someone could end up with thirty derived attributes for magic. Nobody wants that. We might as well just call the game Sisyphus: The Leveling.

Simplicity is best, particularly when things have the potential to compound in on each other. So we're keeping it simple, and trying to give all magic as many common denominators as possible, while keeping them distinct, unique, and worth using in their own ways.

And before anyone starts worrying, no, this is not going to be Riddle of Steel: Caster Edition. Magic is still no substitute for a sword or a spear, and we've set some ground rules for magical utility that keeps it from being a GM's worst nightmare.

If it bogs down the project too much, then we'll just finish one, and release the others later as supplements. Obviously they'll be on the SRD, so no, we're not trying to nickle & dime you to death. Promise.

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Jimmy and Galt, I just want to let you know that you have my undying support and that I love you and will love you eternally. Everything about this game makes me want it more and more.

So don't fuck it up or /tg/ and I will come to your house with swords and stab you both in the dicks. But we'll do it with love.

gosh, this entire thread is exactly what i've been yearning for.
create this kickstarter post-haste!

>>24115254

Do you have any idea what kind of stretch goals you'll be aiming for?

None of this "your donation earns the right to buy our book!" bullshit of Blade of the Iron Throne?

>>24115239
Riddle Magic was 'unbalanced' in that it had ridiculous power at great cost. We're also going for that, but we're toning it down, because as anyone who played Riddle knows, magic was so strong that it became worthless. Basically you could solve any problem except ones that mattered.

We're taking a less idealistic approach. Magic is there to enhance gameplay, we don't want to render other members of the party obsolete just because someone on the team has access to magic. At the same time, we don't want magic to feel weak, because then what'd be the point? It's a fine-tuning thing, and we've got a lot of time to test it. We're also going to listen to the fans. The medium in which most of our work is to be done will give us a lot of opportunity to update things.

>>24115434
>your donation earns the right to buy the book at cost
For $30? This is why I'm not funding BofIT. When I pay for a product, I want the product, not "the privilege of putting more money in later", especially when I don't know how much that is.

Seriously, fuck them.

>>24115503

To their credit, they've sent out an email saying their kickstarter will probably fail, and they aren't upset and understand that the free pdf is enough for most people.

So they aren't complete dicks.

>>24115434
Well, we've been in discussion, and we've come up with a few ideas. We're not going to post the kickstarter until we're sure of how to do this, but this is the plan so far.

At the lowest tier, we've got discounted versions of the book. People who buy it during the development phase pay less. That's how KSP did it, that's how we'll do it. PDF versions will be dirt cheap, hard-copies should be available, and will obviously cost more.

Then comes the fun stuff. We've got a ton of things planned. I'll post those in a moment.

>>24115615
The stuff the people actually care about in Kickstarters is the bonus stuff. The stuff that lets you know, "that's fucking right, I was there when it started and here's my proof." The trophies of war, the spoils of a triumph, minus the strangled Vercingetorix.

So here's what's on the plate gents, and this is tentative, these are the things that we know are possible for us to do, there are many more ideas that are still in the air, and we don't want to get ahead of ourselves before we start offering them.


1: Fechtbuchs. Fight-Books. These were, as most of you surely know, German fencing manuals that depicted techniques, stances, and advice for fighting with the sword, poleaxe, spear, scythe, boat, bladed shield, God knows what else.

A long time ago, in a thread far, far away, there was a certain little woman named Sarah Gizka, who killed a fucking ton of Italians in what Galt considers to be his best fight-thread of all time.

We thought it'd be funny if we mention her in-universe as a swordsman (swordswoman?) who wrote a fechtbuch. Since printing small color books isn't expensive at all... Well, you can see where I'm going with this. This will be a physical book with full illustration, that will likely contain tongue-in-cheek references to real historical fencing authors, and to our game's mechanics and setting.

If this caught on, we'd release more, perhaps focusing on different eras, cultures, or weapons. You might get a 19th century broadsword guide, complete with flourishing drills and such, or an Arabian guide to maces. These sound like they'd be a lot of fun to make, so we're all in favor of the idea.

>>24115531
But it didn't fail. It's currently at $6165 (Of $5500 needed), and it still has 10 hours to go.
I hope they keep the free PDF.

>>24115800
2: Coins

What is it with coins? Coins are the hypest shit. Everyone loves coins. Well now there's a reason to get them beside the fact that they're bomb as hell.

We will produce a series of seven coins, each dedicated to one of the Seven Gods of Chaos, and each containing a puzzle. You heard me. We've already got the puzzles worked out, and what they lead to... Is to be hidden in the books themselves, a sort of in-universe riddle within our fantasy setting, that may be revealed all at once, or over the course of several -years- in supplementary books and such.

The first person (or few people) to uncover this secret is obviously going to get some sort of prize, and as we're going to have between months and years to plan this, it's going to be something big.

The coins will probably be distributed randomly at certain pledge levels (though not multiple of the same ones) so that everyone will have a different mix of them. Only at the highest level will any one person have all seven of the coins. Later opportunities to acquire them will come, but this would obviously be the best time.

>>24115944
3: Additional Material

This one's kind of obvious. More stuff. More game. More weapons from more eras, more settings, more magic systems, things we had planned on doing in the future, we'll list them out, and if these goals are reached, we'll release them immediately for everyone to enjoy, rather than waiting to do them later. This could very easily get out of hand fast, but we'll do it, and we'll like it.

This wouldn't be us stripping out things we've already done and then trying to sell them, either, this would be us kicking our own asses to do things we haven't done yet and have them ready by the release date, or shortly thereafter, complete with artwork and all.

>>24116047
4: Other Shit!
I've never really bought into the whole collector's mentality with signed books, special editions, etc, but we'll offer them anyway to people who want them. One suggestion was a little behind the scenes thing that documents the process of how the game was made, explains some of the stuff behind it, lets you know about the men behind the machine... And buried in there somewhere, some stuff that matters, like gameplay advice, tips on running X kind of campaign, maybe even a video of us bumblefucking around trying to run a game.

I dunno, I think we're incredibly boring people, but that's because I hang out on /tg/. If people want it, we'll do it.

>>24115817
Well, they actually made it. Good for them, I'm glad it's working out.

All of this stuff sounds awesome.
I applaud you and your team for being fucking amazing people.

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>>24115800
>>24115944
>>24116047

Godspeed, Sons of Galt, godspeed. I'll be waiting with my credit card in hand.

>>24116047

Are you talking additional materials as a stretch goal or as a rewards tier? Makes the most sense as a stretch goal, I think.

>>24116200
Thanks bro. We're just guys trying to make the game that we all wanted when we were first getting into RPGs.

>>24116265
Sorry, I'm still new to the way kickstarter works. Right, Rewards Tier is for individuals, Stretch Goals are for the whole project. Yeah, Additional Materials would be a stretch goal, everyone gets them if we reach that point. Things like the Fechtbuchs and the Coins and other collectibles would be for individual contributors who went above and beyond the call of steel.

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I had given up hope and this shit comes in like Ray Johnson suplexing a rainbow into my monitor, my body is so fucking ready.

Bonus points if this is wrapped up, kickstarted, released, and made awesome before the mouthbreathing clods at White Wolf even get their Exalted 3rd Edition Kickstarter off the fucking ground.

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>>24116428
>mfw I accidentally post pictures of Robert Kitty Junior instead of Ray Lewis, AND call him Ray Johnson

I fucking suck.

>>24116336

Makes sense. You might want to start by delineating reward tiers and stretch goals. And reward tiers that are unlocked as stretch goals. As a rule of thumb it seems feelies for reward tiers and more content for stretch goals seems to work? Just make sure it's something you can actually reasonably deliver and keep the PDFs at a low price. I've kicked in five bucks for a pdf of a game I'll never play because I want to read it, anything above ten for just a pdf and I won't even consider it. I know I'm one data point in a sea of consumers but I thought I'd chip that in.

>>24116517
I agree with you entirely. Impulse backings are a great idea, and nothing makes people impulsive like a cheap, cool sounding game.

And as I've said before, I feel that trying to make people pay anything substantial for a PDF copy of a game is ludicrous. It's the sort of thing you'd expect GW to do, and it's so behind the times.

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>>24116608
>I feel that trying to make people pay anything substantial for a PDF copy of a game is ludicrous.

Will other fighting disciplines be as well-rounded as Longsword/Greatsword this time around? Will I actually be able to cut with a rapier?

Oh Jesus, that's right, forgot one of the things we really wanted that would almost certainly have to be a stretch goal: A Bestiary.

The reason I say this is that monsters would necessarily require a ton of art, and because we aren't assholes, we actually pay our artists and get good work done. A few would be in the core book, but a big, chunky 1st day Bestiary that covers all sorts of stuff in high detail would be a great addition, but just not an economical one for us given the sheer weight of imagery that's required. So, we'd stretch that puppy, maybe make a physical book of it as well, since it's rather important.

I know Galt had a talk with you guys about fighting big monsters by climbing on them, harpooning them, etc, and that it's a really cool part of the game that we all wanted in, so I figured I'd mention that now. You should see some of the ideas we've got for dragons. You notice how dragons have gotten boring in the last few years? Kiss that goodbye, we're going Biblical with this shit.

Dragons made of silver that live in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Dragons made of molten lead that live in the depths of the sea to escape the anguish of existence.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Dragons made of gold that eons ago were hewn into pieces and minted into currency, and now have an entire race of fleshy simulacrums whose only goal is to bring them back together by... Hoarding, let us say, gold.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Dragons made of wheels and cogs of copper that create fields of electricity wherever they fly, and seek out lightning storms to power themselves.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE. Shit's going to be grand.

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>>24116904
Sounds pretty fab.
Consider me hyped.

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>>24116904
>dragons made of materials
>climbing on monsters and stabbing their wobbly bits
My body is ready.

>>24116904

>Dragons made of molten lead that live in the depths of the sea to escape the anguish of existence.

Should have made them underground, man. Way to underground for any adventurers to possibly find them.

>>24116831
We don't have the longsword-centric background that RoS's creators had, don't worry. We're giving each kind of weapon the same careful treatment, and we're looking at a variety of sources to make sure that every proficiency offers something cool and new.

The addition of Talent Nodes to the grid was the big step forward in this. I might as well explain this now, basically the Proficiency Grid is a series of dots, connected by lines. You unlock along the lines, choosing paths, etc, backtracking whenever you feel like it, that sort of thing. There are three types of dots, or 'Nodes,' however, each of which gives something different.

The Pool nodes add to your Combat Pool. Some paths will simply offer high combat pools, but have little in the way of techniques or subtle effects.

Maneuver nodes give you maneuvers, or improve your already existing maneuvers. Stuff like improving your disarms, adding more options when tripping or grappling, specialized cuts and counters, that sort of thing.

Talents apply passive abilities, things like a bonus when competing for the initiative, or when defending against or making a certain kind of attack, or special stances you can adopt before combat that add circumstantial bonuses to certain strikes or defenses. That sort of stuff.

It's this last one that really fleshed out our proficiencies, because a lot of profs have Maneuvers which are relatively simple. You don't murderstroke with a rapier, you don't halfsword with a rapier, but that doesn't mean it's a bad weapon, it means it's a different weapon, with different advantages and options.

Don't worry. Nobody's getting left out in the cold.

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>>24116904
This could be the whole game, and I would play it. It could be single player, like a choose your own adventure book with dice, and I'd play it.

ok what's going on in this thread? is /tg/ making a shadow of the colossus game?

>>24117049
Sounds interesting. Hopefully it'll lead to a more educated technique list in the end, like being able to halfsword and bind with a katana.

>>24117177
You know, I guess so.

>>24117177

Our messiah, John Galt returns.

Does anyone have that screencap of who I can only assume is Jimmy Roman scolding someone for sayings swords are for faggots?

>>24117191
Oh speaking of binds, I really fucking hope they're neither ultracomplex nor an instant kill against styles that lack it.

>>24117191
Ideally, that is exactly what would happen. Potentially it would also let players acquire maneuvers and such that were not generally associated with their weapon, but which would theoretically be possible. In this way, players could become onorthodox fighters, forging their own Muganesque path of skill with their chosen proficiency.

Escrima with warhammers? I say go for it.

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>>24117360

>>24117569
Jesus. Someone kept that?

>>24117603
I got it second hand, I think quite a few people enjoyed it enough to save it.

>>24116904
Dude. Yes.

>>24117569

My favorite image.

>>24114532
Dude, what the fuck is this shit?

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>This thread

>>24117746
Trolls in Berserk rape human women to reproduce. There was a similar monster in Riddle of Steel called a Hef, except it also raped horses, cows, wolves, etc. Hence relevance.

>>24117931
Huh, didn't know that. I thought the only rapists in Berserk were humans and demons.

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I've been running GURPS duels because I've been inspired by John Galt.

Deus Galt! Support the next Riddle of Steel!

>>24118102
everything in berserk is a rapist, including most rape victims

Dear fucking god. I swear, I read through John Galt's threads in the archives LAST WEEKEND. Fucking yesterday, man.

You are a magnificient man and I wish to kiss you.

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Two years ago, I was there for the first few Fechthreads, back when Galt himself didn't know how the damn game worked and we were all just tooling around, having fun. Then Galt told us he'd be back, and then vanished for two years. I heard that he had been back once or twice, but I never saw him. I stopped believing, but he fucking did it. Legends don't die. Thank you Roman, thank you Galt, thank you beautiful bastards for giving me this.

>The project is now called Esoterica.

Not exactly a fan of the new name. Doesn't really communicate anything of what the game is about or what it can run well - historical or low fantasy games with an emphasis on warriors and combat.

I'd recommend something more historical sounding, like "Deeds of Arms" or "Fechtbutch".

>>24118389
I'm inclined to agree. It'd work if it were a game that was more about magic or seeking deep secrets. If it were about Esoterica, I'd understand calling it Esoterica. The problem is the game is clearly not about that, it's about killing people with axes and swords. I hope it's not too late to change that.

>>24118389
>>24118549

I also have to chime in. I really really don't like the name. I'd go with something more... descriptive. Esoterica sounds like a generically high fantasy game about magic. You need something lower, more brutal.

Alright guys, let it never be said that ol' Rome doesn't listen to you. The people have spoken, I'll go take the game's name up with the rest of the guys right now. It'll just mean that we'll have to go re-record the audio for the pitch-video. Don't want people wondering why we keep saying Esoterica when the project's not called that anymore.

You know what? I'm gonna just say it. What should we call it? Give me names. We ended up going with Esoterica because we fucking suck at names. They always say that's the hardest part of the project, I never got that until I tried it.

>>24118671
Could go with something ridiculously testosterone-soaked like FIST OF MAIL or something like that.

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>>24118671
Sword of the Heavens wasn't bad. It sounded a bit holy, though, like it implied some divine element to the game.

My suggestions:
Deathblow
Masterstroke
Berserkergang
Reign of the Sword
The Iron Price
Legacy of Steel

>>24118671

How about you guys go with another Robert E. Howard quote, in keeping with the Conan tradition?

>Wits and Swords
>The Feasting of Swords

People who actually read his stuff might remember a better line to take something from than I can.

>>24118891
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Conan_the_Barbarian

Checking the big list of quotes now.

I agree, something grittier, sophisticated but a bit savage sounds great. Don't be shy, guys, throw anything that sounds even kinda good at me.

>>24118891
"By This Axe I Rule"?

>>24118891

I like both of those, myself. The Feasting of Swords a bit more, but both are good.

>>24118891
You could name it after a legendary weapon. Like Caliburn, or Excalibur, or Durandil. People like swoards.

>>24119012

>What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.

>when the broadswords sing

Song of Swords or Song of the Sword?

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>>24115944
>What is the Riddle of Coins?

>>24119142

Bitches.

You can buy bitches with coins.

Contemplate this on the tree of woe. Crucify him.

When this system comes out I'm going to use the system to run a quest. Fuck all you quest haters. It'll be the best thing ever.

>>24119137
If it weren't so cumbersome, When The Broadswords Sing would be fucking awesome.

>>24119021
The Song of Battle?

Shattered Crowns?

>>24119201

I actually think When the Broadswords Sing would be a great name. WtBS is just as short an acronym as tRoS after all.

And it just sounds poetic and awesome.

>>24119231
I can't believe this. One of our designers' first suggestion, as a joke, was "let's just call the game Sword."

If we do this, Song of Broadswords, or even Song of Swords, the inevitable shortening will be "let's go play some Sword."

That's fucking hilarious. Let's do it.

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>>24119163
I like this riddle.

>>24119280
Or When the Broadswords Sing. I actually like that one the best too, it really feels Robert E. Howard. I'll go pitch that bitch.

>>24119111
Something like this sounds cool.

I also really like the "Song of Swords". Kind of like Riddle of Steel, but different. Kinda sounds like ASoIaF. Poetic, fantastic, not magicky, even has alliteration. Rolls off the tongue. SoS.

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>>24119280

I fucking love you guys. I will forever be proud of the knowledge that my clicking on the page of quotes and finding the first awesome quote I could became your name.

>>24119353

Or possibly became your name, because it's your game and stuff. But still. It helped.

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>>24119280
Now this is just me trying to feel appreciated, I'll admit that straight up. But two things:

1) Have you seen the GURPS duels that have been ran recently? What do you think? As the OP of many of those threads I think they've mostly been kind of sad and one-sided.

2) One thing I really don't like about GURPS is that I feel like I've got to say the whole dang acronym every time I mention a book name, like GURPS Horror instead of just Horror, or GURPS Martial Arts instead of just Martial Arts. As I type it into 4chan I feel like I'm saying "GURPS" way, way too freaking much.

Having a name like "Sword" would be pretty sweet. But, I KNOW that I will mess it up, and say "The Sword of Songs" all the time. It flows better in my head. "Song of Swords" or a variant of that definitely sounds cooler and less flowery-poetic.

So this has a kickstarter page? Because I cannot fucking find it.

>>24119384

Not yet, this is the 'look out for the kickstarter, because it's gonna be happening soon' thread.

A new field of fancy to take flight from. I can scarcely wait to bring peace and understanding to the humans of this setting.

...I can statistically model a beak that can rip open platemail with this game, right?

>>24119353
I'm talking it over with one of my fellow designers, and I believe we might just like it.

Song of Swords, while not quite as poetic as "When the Broadswords Sing" is really simple, and really cool sounding. Son, I think you just named your first game.

>>24119497
SOS is a pretty good acronym.

>>24119375
I haven't seen 'em, actually, though I think any man brave enough to try and run a fechtthread regardless of system is worthy of praise. High five brother.

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>>24119497
I approve of this.

>>24119563
Aw man, really? I've got like five threads for you if you're interested. Most recent ones were Roman gladiators and a scary MMA fight.

>>24119531

inb4 werewolves

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>tfw in years hence we remember that /tg/ named the best game ever made

>>24119597

Even if he isn't, I'm interested. In the spirit of the great Fecht, mind posting links?

>>24119597
I'll read them if you can give me links, it's not often you get a good fight.

>>24119597
>>24119651
What's the difference between a fetch-thread and a quest-thread?

Are there any social combat rules?

>>24119744

When you die to being stabbed to death by a Pict within three rounds, it's considered a successful day in a Fecht thread.

>>24119759
Believe it or not, yes. We've got a guy writing out complex rules for debating, negotiating, intimidating, etc, with maneuvers and everything. It's not my department, though, I stick to bloodshed.

>>24119830

That sounds quite worthwhile. I'll have to find some money to commit to this project.

>>24119830
Good, awesome. I don't think these things are strictly necessary in an irl game, but I find they work well over the net.

Try to convince the guy to jump on /tg/ some day so we can hear about it.

>>24119830
>Social combat with maneuvers
I could fight wars with how hard my dick is.

>>24119830

Please tell me there is a rhetorical equivalent to a mordhau.

Hell, please tell me that the social combat system is the melee system but with wit and rebuttals as your weapons and maneuvers.

How many guys do you have working on this, anyway?

>>24119906
As in, something out of left field that stuns the opponent momentarily, giving you time to finish him off? There is EXACTLY that.

>>24119906
Sorry, didn't answer the whole thing. Yes. Yes. 5.

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>>24119651
>>24119741
Sweet, links coming up.

There are two oddities in GURPS combat. The neck is a strange hit location, doesn't suffer gradual penalties like arms and legs.

The groin is even MORE strange. Only CRUSHING damage gets any extra effect against the groin, and like the neck it doesn't get severed or anything unless you killed the guy. Stabbing people in the dick in GURPS? No mechanical benefit. May as well have stabbed them in the Vitals for the same penalty to hit.

>>24119744
One is playing an actual game system, usually a fight or two or three. In my experience on /tg/ it's uisually GURPS or Riddle of Steel...and I've ran a lot of the GURPS ones. Not all of them. But most.

A quest thread could be anything. Roll d100 and first post gets it, or just write a lot and progress narratively. A Fecht thread is going to be a combat. Bonus points for historical accuracy or "realism."

>>24119889
>mfw they make social combat from Exalted for Heroic Mortals but good

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>>24119947
>>24119979

The things I would let you do to me.

And wow, five people? And you're creating something this comprehensive? That's quite impressive.

>>24119984
I wish I'd played Exalted. I'm told there were references to it in the Hunter edition I really liked, but I never really understood 'em.

>>24120028
We're a very strange company. And I'll admit, at times it's slowed us down, but the multitude of opinions and ideas, and the sheer amount of labor that five people can put out, are what have allowed a game this expansive to work. Me and one other fellow (the two official Partners of the company) are the ones who are physically writing and editing the book, but we couldn't have done it by ourselves, if that makes sense.

So how does the Monster Hunter stuff work? I want to kill and eat gryphons.

Might this historic thread be worthy of archival?

>>24120215
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsv1YOFNys&list=LLqjg1dSRqBPsudvzg6WvxpQ&feature=mh_lolz

It's still in testing. Right now, it starts with the absolute certainty that you are a dead man. We're working on changing that, but the fact that half of these monsters can fly basically kills 100% of the people involved, even if they 'win' the fight.

>>24120260

The obvious solution is to add more dakka.

Dakka being bows and muskets and mordhau.

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>>24119111
>People like swoards.
MFW

While the great assembly of the Fech/tg/uys are here, does anyone have links to the full story of Gizka? I can't seem to find the whole story.

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>>24120369
I dont understand.

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>>24120284
Missiles are one solution. Another is to bring the monster to the ground and keep it there. Harpoons are currently being ruled in. The only way to reliably do it now is to climb onto the monster's back and do damage to its wings in a controlled manner so that it lands first, -then- loses the ability to fly. This is a lot harder than it sounds, because griffon.

Dragons are different. Taking down a dragon is going to be a genuinely ludicrous task of heroism, which it frankly should be. Smaller things like Drakes and Wyverns will be easier, but Dragons are like flying continents. Killing one would be as practical as digging a hole the size of Bosnia in the middle of a battle.

Of course it'll be possible, because by the point you're fighting dragons, you've moved a bit past Sword and Sorcery, into insane high-tier play. Fighting those kinds of things will probably have to go into a supplement or something, just because it's so incongruous with the power level of the rest of the game.

We call High Fantasy Heroism "Going Kratos" around the office. A shame we can't call the expansion book that.

>>24120391
It's on Sup/tg/ I'll go get it

>>24120416
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/16059808/
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/16109227/

Can't find the first one, where she fought some sword-guy. That wasn't really part of her story, though.

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>>24119984
Threads and included battles:
I don't think I should count the Ultra-Tech space marine vs. 40k Space Marine or the lame cinematic boxing one, will produce on request, though you can likely find it in one of these threads since they like to link to each other in the opening and final posts

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/20568112/#20577570
Sept 2-5, 2012
Example combats that someone else did and I just posted;
1x Knife Fight between Eczema James and another guy. Another guy did threads with art like that. I still crack a smile when I read "Eczema James". Last post leads to next thread.

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/20724032/#20736902
Sept 15, 2012
1x Knightly Mounted Combat (High Medieval), but on ground using Sword & Board
vs. Italian School Fencer

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/20751636/#20767387
Sept 17, 2012
1x Low-Tech Chinese swordsman vs Korean swordsman, done by other GURPS bro

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/21095589#21099726
Oct 12, 2013
1x Dungeon Fantasy (Heroic Archer vs. Artillery Mage)

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/23927776
March 28, 2013
x2 Gladiators (Hoplomachus vs. Murmillo)
x1 Unarmed MMA (Muay Thai vs. Pak Hok Pai)

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/24080562/
April 5, 2013
1x Gladiator (Thraex armatura) vs. an angry lion named Ricardo

so can someone give me a tl;dr version of what this thread is since it's apparently epic

>>24120484

John Galt's long awaited project in making a sequel to the Riddle of Steel is finally coming into existence. Jimmy Rome is his prophet, and all is good that is known so far. Also, a couple fech/tg/uys possibly helped rename the game.

>>24120468
>>24120482
Haven't actually read any of these. (No, not even Galt's.) I'll read 'em all, I've got the time. And I'll find that cinematic boxing one, I'm a big Ippo fan. Damn that's a lot of threads.

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>>24120517
>There is one Galt, and Rome is his prophet

>>24120484
There is an RPG called Riddle of Steel. We on /tg/ hold it to be the best RPG system for representing one-on-one melee battles from ancient history to the early Age of Gunpowder.

There was a namefriend named John Galt who ran threads on /tg/ that basically pit certain fighters from histroical periods against each other. Then John Galt made a story, not really quest threads, but there were adventures with Sarah Gizka (an agility whore who killed many Italians, like Assassin's Creed meets Riddle of Steel) and eventually Legionary Sulla, in the times of the Roman empire.

We who were there really liked Riddle of Steel, and we liked the scenarios John Galt set up.

Eventually Galt disappeared, saying he was assembling a group of people to make an Improvement or Sequel to The Riddle of Steel, that would be a better system.

This thread is one of the people from that group telling us that that system is nearly complete, and they're launching a kickstarter soon for it. This is the only kickstarter I actually want to support.

>>24120221
I'm going to venture a guess and say yes, this one is worth archiving. It's not the 50th in a series of shills for the same thing, this is the thread in which /tg/ learned that Santa Claus is real.

>>24120581

Praise be to Galt.

Galtāhu Akbar.

I could go on.

>>24120482
>>24120535
Here's the boxing one.
http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/21291263
Oct 25, 2012
1x Boxing Match, very loosely styled after Million-Dollar Baby vs Tank Abbot

It's mostly just me playing with myself. It was a one-sided fight and took forever and I didn't finish it. (It was one-sided because I was toying with different kinds of natural armor for the boxers, to see which was more powerful.)

And the Ultra-Tech one
http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/20809463/#20857135
Sept 21-25, 2012
1x Space Marine vs Spess Mahreen (Tech Level 10 Space Marine vs. 40k Imperial Fist Space Marine) I make a big goof at the end
1x "target practice" with an Ultra-Tech battle tank shooting missiles at targets. That takes place earlier in the thread and isn't really that exciting; the link above starts you at the marine vs. marine


I post these for you all to enjoy, not for me to be remembered. Names and trips aren't my style.

>>24120482
>Eczema James
>Other GURPS bro

THAT WAS ME! I DID SOMETHING AND PEOPLE REMEMBERED SOMETHING I DID!

AND I'VE BEEN READING ALL YOUR THREADS!

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/24111246/

It is done. Except for me fucking up and calling Jimmy Rome Jimmy Roman.

May Galt bless our Codpieces and Rome have mercy on me for my transgressions.

>>24120782
Hug me, my brother! We are reunited!

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We are more glad to give you what you want then you are to receive it, I assure you. This whole affair has taken on a fever pitch. I was almost living out of my car for part of this endeavor. Galt calls it the game that saved his life. Let this be known, /tg/, whatever happens, that we're doing this for you. You gave us purpose, and this is our repayment.

I must go. A good evening to you all, and expect updates as we move forward.

>>24120406
How about "Walking the Path of Mars?"

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>>24120834

Your sacrifice will never be forgotten, brother Rome, prophet of Galt.

Disregard that i suck cocks I don't have work until the PM tomorrow.

>>24120861
Not a bad title. One of the problems of wanting to make 30,000 supplements is going to be the names. Man we're bad at names. I think we're just going to crowdsource all the damn names. Song of Swords is so fucking badass, how did we not think of that?

>>24120834
Men of your quality are few and far between.

>>24120927

We'll be here always.

I hope you like half your books being named the Riddle of Dicks though. The other half will be cool stuff at least.

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>>24120794

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>>24120752
>Abbot's had enough of this silliness

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>>24120861
If I were naming it, I'd go with shorter names. Taking what you'd said, I'd say just "The Path of Mars."

And hey, if you're going with "The Song of Swords," why not make some of the expansions be other powerful nouns, or synonyms of Song? You could have "The Method of Monsters" or "The Crusaders' Canto" or "Duty and Death."

Those are just off the top of my head, they ain't got no real thought put behindt hem.

>>24121000
This thread is full of all the best feels.

>>24121114
The Path of Mars would've actually made an alright title for the whole game. This thread has been damn instructional. Much like these fecht threads. This is some good shit.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html

Vote it up guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZelRyFl7U
>That feel when feels

>>24121062
>rereading the thread I realize I totally forgot to account for bonus damage you get for having the Boxing at or above a certain level
Gosh darnit it would have canceled out the penalty for wearing Everlast gloves.

Wait, Jimmy, did you also say you never read Galt's threads?

bumping

>>24121412
I read some of them Blackpoole, Stracci's fight with the Bear, and Sulla's gauntlet, as well as that one where the Camels fought a bear with rapiers, but I never read the Gizka threads. I'm saving those for last, and for a good reason. She's been an NPC in campaigns I've played in before, so I've got a particular interest in knowing how she began. I don't know why I never looked it up before.

>>24121730
Sorry that took seventeen minutes, I got wrapped up in what I was reading.

Wait wait, is this a joke? Is it really happening this time?

>>24121792

It's fucking happening this time!

>>24121792
You know that joke where we pretend that a nonexistant game is real? This isn't that. It is happening.

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>>24121792

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>>24121830

>>24121730
So she did live. What was she like, Jimmy?

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>>24121792

>>24121929
>Call it Heaven
>It's the Future You Wanted
Fix it.

>>24121853
>>24121866
>>24121929
/pol/ can eat its fucking heart out. Our Happening is actually Happening.

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>>24121945
Nah cant be bothered.

>>24121928
Small. Quiet. Sharklike. She never said anything clever or intimidating, she never got excited or angry, she never bantered, and that was part of her character. The other NPCs had crews with some sort of hierarchy, you could tell that they had a rapport, personality clashes, power struggles, but not her. She had a gang that was like a patrol of sharks. Nobody ever talked, nobody ever questioned her, she'd tell them to kill someone, and they'd do it regardless of the situation or the context, or who the person was.

We never fought her, and I'm glad we didn't, because her CP was 26 when those threads were made, which suggest that she was pretty young. We met her when she was like 40. She would've destroyed us.

I'll back it.

>>24122044
It's always the little quiet ones.

>>24122044
Yeah and remember, she basically got into this life for no reason except she COULD and was GOOD at it, if my memory serves.

Hm. I do rather hope sabers are better at parrying than they are in Riddle. I want to be able to reenact this scene without it ending on the first exchange every time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBTtq2Gzm6w

>>24119497

Possible variations might be Song of Steel, Storm of Steel, Storm of Swords (wait, that's taken), Sound of Steel, and so on.

>>24120406

Other options for a flying monster might be sneaking up on it while asleep then throwing a net over it (preferable a net big enough to contain it). Or if you're sneaky enough I suppose you could try to wound it in a vital location while it sleeps. If you're super sneaky, you could try tying it down to something with a rope.

Luring a dragon in a cave (or attacking it in it's den or other constrained area) is another classic tactic to deny flight.

>>24122313
I think I remember this movie. It was like six hours long.

>>24122313
If I recall my fencing, saber guard positions were a lot more effective than rapier ones, which makes that extra strange. The rapier had strong offense, being fast and great on the thrust, but it couldn't parry for shit, whereas the saber was heavier and better suited for it.

>>24122313
>2:30
Get fucking shit on. I love how there's almost no dialogue, he makes him his bitch entirely through action, and you know exactly what's happening throughout the whole thing.

>>24122390
The part where he spins the saber around like it's supposed to be impressive is a little dumb.

>>24122371
Well, keep in mind that rapiers aren't exactly light, weighing generally as much as an arming sword. Still, I agree--sabers are most definitely NOT crap at parrying and they do have very effective defensive guards.

>>24122400
I think that's intentional. He's so much better than the babyfaced twit that he can fuck around like that and still win.

>>24122400
Not if you speak Polish. He's making fun of the guy, his next line is "You swing your sword like a flail."

I never understood why bar fights in Mount & Blade: With Fire & Sword gave you a sabre and pitted you against other guys with sabres (unless you specifically ask for a fistfight). Now that I've seen this Polish video, I guess I kind of understand.

>>24122428
HOW APPROPRIATE, YOU FIGHT LIKE A FLEMISH PEASANT

...wait...

This is going to be beautiful.

How much of the core combat engine and its attendant doo-dads do you guys have down so far?

>>24122532
The combat is my province, and while it 'works', as in, it can be played, right now it mostly runs off of familiarity.

This is something difficult to explain, but basically when you make a game, or are complicit in the making of a game, you don't notice gaps. You fill them in subconsciously, and your fellows do the same, and so you forget that you're there.

So right now, if I handed you the system, it would be unplayable, but me and the rest of the team can play it easily. What we're doing right now is filling in all of the gaps and making it so that it could be played without any assumptions or leaps of logic. It's got to be mechanically perfect before we can release it. A lot of this is just collating and wording, so it's not hard, it's just tedious.

Also, the proficiencies are down in theory, but because they're very expansive grids that have to be balanced, it's taking us forever to actually write them all out. We have a guy whose only job is doing that, and he's been working as hard as any of us parallel to the rest of the project, and he's still not done. It's that big of a job.

>>24122428
>mfw a guy in a polish movie makes fun of a guy for fighting like people do in Hollywood

That's so meta I just had an aneurysm.

>>24122653
You'll need playtesters outside the development team you know. Might want to get on that.

>>24122676
Yeah, this. Find some buddies, get some time set aside, and stress test the FUCK out of that system. Find what bends, and what breaks entirely under merciless optimization and powergaming.

>>24122676
Yeah, we've got people doing that now. It's how we noticed the gaps in the system. Thankfully we're headquartered in Silicon Valley, at the moment, which gives us access to an infinite number of nerds to use in testing. Once the thing is fully colated in a technical language so that it can be abused with legalese, MtG style, we'll be able to hand it to multiple groups of people without anyone standing by and just receive reports later.

>>24122693
Did you know that Kalashnikov had to look away when they first started stress-testing the AK-47?

Non-player here: is this meant to be "tRoS with all the bumps ironed out" or an entirely new thing with a similar emphasis on [SUPERIOR RESEARCH-BASED COMBAT / dickstabbing]?

If I can offer one piece of advice, it's to hire an editor before publishing any PHYSICAL product. You're familiar with GW and their books. You know how they are just RIDDLED with typos, bad grammar, and conflicting references. The only way you can avoid this is to hire an editor from outside your group, someone with a good eye for English and someone for whatever other languages you'll release the game in, and have him find all of your typos and fix them.

Heck, give it to us to do for free. It'd be embarrassing to release a book that can't keep straight its "who's" and "whose," or "its" and "it's." You're better than GW. Get an editor.

>>24122750
I'd say it's a combination of the two. In combat, it plays a lot like Riddle of Steel, but with the bumps ironed out, but most of the game is new, and I feel much better made. We didn't try to 'emphasize' the combat too much, we want every part of it to stand up to intense scrutiny, rather than to pigeonhole players towards violence.

If anything, it's a game where you should fear violence, because it can kill you.

>>24122774
Does GW not have editing? That's hilarious. Don't worry, we won't make a rookie mistake like that.

>>24122819
Are there any big changes to combat that makes it differ fundamentally from Riddle? I don't mean the multiple-combat thing, I mean in one on one engagements. What sets it aside?

>>24122819
>Does GW not have editing?
You wouldn't think so, reading even the most recent 40k codex books. For the Tau codex they released an FAQ on the same day stores were supposed to get the book. What's the point of a Day 1 errata? One that says "oh yeah, this section of the book has the model's stats wrong, the other table is right"? It reeks of horrible quality in their book-making.

They've got money to pad their low quality. You guys don't. Make this product the best you possibly can. It sounds like you've been working hard so keep at it.

>>24122733
Aye, but look at what came of it in the end!

>>24122908
A few things have changed significantly. There are now three Orientations instead of two for the beginning of combat. Before there was Red and White. Offense, Defense. Now there's Offense, Defense, and Cautious, which we call Yellow.

Instead of just throwing one or the other, each character first declares which one he is -not- throwing, and then throws one of the other two. This adds another layer of mind-game to the affair.

Cautious is similar to Offense, in that it gets the Impetus over Defense in action resolution order, but it loses it to Full Offense. Its primary advantage is that if you go Yellow/Red, yellow can declare a defense action instead of an offensive one, and Yellow/Yellow contests have an initiative test before declaring actions, with the loser being allowed to defend and the winner being allowed to attack. It negates the chance of double-kills.

This is because an obscene number of our test fights the first day lasted for exactly one exchange, and we felt there was a need for a 'safer' option when fighting.

>>24123021
Ah, that sounds reasonable.

RED/RED MASTER RACE *cough*

>>24123021
What is the virtue of Defense, if you can just choose Cautious without risk?

>>24123072
Some maneuvers are only available from Defense, and the act of switching from Cautious to Defense costs some Pool. It's safe, but it's not optimal. If you know that the enemy is going to attack you full, or if there are multiple opponents, it's better to just throw Defense and not waste the points.

>>24123098
This sounds ridiculously tactical. I love it.

>>24123098
Is there a similar pool cost for switching to Offense from Cautious?

>>24123127
Yes, though at this point in testing, we've removed those costs. Some maneuvers are only available on Full Offense, but Cautious is an 'assumed' offensive Orientation. It's good to take if your opponent is probably going to go defensive, but might spring a crazy initiative-stealing attack on you at the last second. It's also only for the first Clash of combat, so it's not like you can do this when your opponent has already been worn down for a while to negate any chance of him outsmarting you.

Imagine a great warrior. He's wounded. You know he's wounded. He's got arrows in him, he's fucked up. But he's still Druss the Legend. You don't want to just run in, because even though you're probably strong enough to batter through his defenses, he might still have the pool to outspeed you and cut your head off. So you move in slowly, to see what he's got.

>>24123179
Cool beans. A Seigan/Chudan to Offense's Jodan.

>>24123210
Precisely. Though in addition to this, there are actually Stances that you can take before the fight begins, that reward certain behaviors.

So you can, in this case, literally adopt Jodan, and then go cautious. It'd just be retarded because you'd be working against yourself.

>>24123210
>Japanese fightan stances
>In mah HEMA simulator

Truly these are the end times. I'm actually relieved that we won't have any gross favoritism towards one cultural background of martial arts.

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So, this is not at all what you've been asked so far, but I'm curious and you're here. The setting. I assume there's a default one, because you've referenced it so far. What's the deal? Is it something that's part and parcel to the game, like an assumed default setting, or is it something optional that doesn't color the mechanics too much? Because I'm not much of a fantasy guy, I like my fechting historical. What's the plan?

>>24123269
Hell, Riddle of Steel ITSELF referenced the Japanese names of the stances in Flower of Battle. It was still fairly overwhelmingly skewed towards European kit and especially longsword fechten, though.

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>>24123269
Until we get to ancient Rome, anyway. Filthy Germanic swords will have ATN 9 and DTN 8. The Gladius will do +4 damage on the thrust and the Scuttum will cause KO tests or fling anyone who is blocked by it prone.

Caligae? AV 6.

>>24123269
Swords are swords, they have a lot of similarities and every single sword style shares at least two things, first the movements of the human body and killing someone else with a sharp piece of metal. There's going to be lots of parallels between sword styles, especially those who share characteristics such as size, length, weight, edging, curve, and so on.

Kenjutsu is a solid sword style and you can identify identical stances in Kenjutsu and HEMA manuscripts and sword styles.

>>24123328
Katana was fucking OP as hell, though, in proper Weaboo style.
>ATN 5
I get that it wasn't a bad sword, but that's fucking outrageous.

>>24123356
Same ATN to cut as for a rapier to thrust. Don't really see a problem--particularly since it relied on draw cutting which took serious penalties against armor and made your already-short weapon effectively even shorter.

Speaking of which, is draw cutting still a thing in the new system? Do you still have to step in one range to use it?

>>24123310
The game will include a default fantasy setting, but also an example historical setting set during the 3rd Crusade. Originally the name Sword of the Heavens was a reference to this. Regardless, we plan on a neutral treatment of the Arabs and the Franks and such, not taking sides, portraying everyone as human, etc. Holy warriors fighting other holy warriors, that sort of thing.

The fantasy setting is our own creation, we call it Tattered Realms (which is I think the only good name we've produced so far), and it's an honest, low-fantasy but high mysticism setting. Most of our effort has gone into making all of the nations and such actually feel like countries that developed around each other, because nothing in the world drives me crazier than fantasy settings where neighbors don't seem to interact or have cultural exchange. The same thing with magic. It effected the world, society deals with it, rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

It's got some serious fantasy elements, but until they're on the screen, it feels very subdued. We had to work really hard to shake off the elegiac quality that it started with, though (we'd all just played Dark Souls because Galt brought it over flipping his shit because he'd realized that the Undead Burg existed) and make it feel more adventurous.

>>24123404
Draw Cuts are totally still a thing, though if I recall what the Proficiency guy was doing, you don't -always- need to step in a range to use them, it depends on the Prof.

One thing we've done, and by God I think this is something that by itself would've made Riddle of Steel twice as good, was established Universal Special Rules for weapons. As in, generic effects that weapons have listed in their own section.

Heavy Maces have AP 1. The ignore 1 point of armor. Sabers have Draw 1. They do +1 damage with a Draw cut. Warhammers have Shock 2, they inflict 2 shock upon hitting, etc. These things are all clearly defined in their own section, and organized so that there is no ambiguity or confusion. This shit drove me bananas when I was trying to play the original game.