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We space race now.

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You are Princess Lydia Tannhäuser Von Cygnus Gates the third, duchess of Tannhäuser and executive director of the Royal Rocketry Corps of Midland. Although the satellite you launched 6 months ago has since died, the press just can't stop talking about you.
Expectations are high and although you managed to secure funding and a new base on a tropical island close to the equator, you still have a lot of work to do if you are going to put a man into orbit.

You have 30 RnD points, and 2 luck points, your current inventory consists of one unfinished and untested and unnamed Mk4a rocket. More than 3 times as large as the Mk3 even without it's payload.

>Wiki with archives and info: http://emlia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WhatGoesUp.SpacePrincessQuest

>Rules: http://emlia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WhatGoesUp.WhatGoesUp

All posts must use the royal we. Any suggestion unfitting a princess will be ignored

We are still going with the idea of a MANNED spaceflight, yes? We might consider slow steps on the way up to a full human.

Perhaps a dog, or some other iconic living animal. Does Midland have a national animal, perhaps?

If we are fully committed to the idea of *manned* spaceflight, we must again consider the selection process for an appropriate candidate - to say nothing of preparing proper uniform and survival equipment.

Mr. Harker was kind enough last time we convened to suggest a selection tournament of sorts, possibly amended to include the challenges faced in space.

This advisor of course must continue to express his reservations about plunging headfirst into the prospect of manned flight. The risk to life and limb is quite great, but it would appear we have already committed ourselves.

We need to look at power source, imaging, and radio-based technologies.

>>24082405

But plunging into things is fun! Besides, we can't give up the advantage!

>>24082475
You inquire to Minerva about more perminant power sources. Although she still hasn't given up on building her radio-reactive engine, there is no way it could possibly fit on any current rocket.

She does have two possible ideas however. One would be a canester filled with a small amount of radio-reactive elements. As the elements decay they would give off heat, which could be used to generate a very small, yet constant amount of power. This would last for years, but would not give very much energy.

The other idea would be using Photovoltaic cells. These would create electricty from sunlight. Without the atmosphere to defuse it, sunlight will be much stronger in space, and could be a valuable source of energy. It however would only work during the day. At night any energy would have to be storied in batteries.

We shall refine the guided and photographic modules, reducing both their fail and boom risks by two each.

We then shall invest as much as possible in reducing the boom risk of Mk4a.

We should also consider an interview with Mister Radio, and let the world know we are working hard to reach the moon first.

>>24082405
The national animal of midland is the majestic Golden eagle. The animal of house Cygnus (your mother's side of the family) is the swan.
Both of those might be a bit large to send into space however.

>>24082565
I like the canister, but it will have to be a very robust module. We can't go spreading radio-reactive waste all over our lovely new island retreat if we have a failure.
We should also build a long-range radio station for communication purposes.

GodMother, are the stats on the wiki of the new system?

We shall spend 1 RP to invent the Photovoltaic Power Cell. We shall also spend 1 RP to invent the Radio-Reactive Power Cell.
We shall spend 5 RP to increase the Reliability of the MK4a to 4/8.
We shall also spend 5 RP to increase the Reliability of the Camera Module to 10/12.

How much RP will it cost to invent the Capsule Module, which can take 1 person up, have them orbit for 1 turn, then come down?

>>24082800
They are the new system, higher is now better. Thank Space Core for converting them for us.

>Inventing Photovoltaic cells for 1
>Inventing Radiothermal core for 1
>Improving Mk4a by 5 to 4/8
>Improving Camera by 4 to 9/12
>Improving Guidence unit by 4 to 7/10

No points remain, Do you wish to invite the press onto your island or timeskip to the next turn?

>>24082625

Sending a bird makes a lot of sense though, they're likely to do well at high altitude.

How about a seagull? They're cute-ish if you don't have to live near them, they're smart, and they're good at navigatig!

>>24083006
Finding a gull will be easy enough on this island.

>>24082989
We're still limited to the '5RP per turn' limit for improvements?

We shall invite the press onto the island to see the Tannhäuser Orbital Launch and Command Facility under construction. Our work is focused completely on the next generation of rocket, which will put a much larger payload into orbit. What that payload is, shall remain a secret for now.

>>24082989
I don't think a full press contingent would be wise. Something smaller, yes.
>>24082800
>>24083006
I don't think we should really be talking about sending up any living subjects until we have a better understanding of the forces at work. Let's focus on getting long-term satellites with as much sensor equipment as we can stuff into them, for now.

>>24083102

The new rules have it at 10 (5/5) because it made openings faster, not sure what GM wants to do :)

http://emlia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WhatGoesUp.NewGameplay

>>24083126
Indeed, you should be able to devote 10points per item per turn with the new facilities.

>>24083125
Exactly how small? Surely if you did not put any restrictions every reporter in the world would descend upon this island. But the question is how much to allow.

>>24083125

This is a noble adventure, not a science experiment! We have to keep the world wowed.

>>24083221
>the press
We shall invite journalists from the 5 major newspapers of Midland, Mr. Radio, and 1 or 2 from Suthland. And Amelia should come visit us.

>able to devote 10 per turn
We should get the Mk4a, Camera, and Capsule done as quickly as we can.

>>24083253
On the other hand, having our Space Knight perish because of some etheric hazard isn't going to look good.

>>24083345

That's why I'd send critters first!

Not Cottonball. Cottonball goes to space when we do. A helmet hat will be required. Or a hat helmet.

You send a formal invitation to a selection of the press, and to Amelia, to come to Tannhäuser island. They will arrive at the end of the turn.

You now have 30 more points to spend before they show up. What will you build?

>>24083325

If there is an aviation magazine, them as well. We're not going to give out technical details but Harker can keep them busy and that's an easy demgraphic to recruit fans from!

>>24083592
You also extend an invitation to an avation magazine popular in the western islands.

>>24083687

And now... EXPLOSIONS! :D

How long does the trip between home and here take?

How do the natives feel about all this? Gotta make sure there's no friction there, it's bad press and ca cause problems.

>>24083703
As far as you can tell this island is uninhabited.

As for the press, they will arrive at the end of this turn, after you have spent your 30 points.

Good thing you haven't promised a launch.

>>24083558
Mk4a (Archangel-I) - 10RP - 9/13
Camera Module - 10RP - 14/17
Invent Capsule (Camera, Guidance) - Mass 3 - 3RP
Capsule - 4RP - 3/8
Guidance Module - 3RP - 9/11

>>24083728
We should throw together some model rockets for them to take home.
>>24083764
>Capsule
Too soon. We need to work on satellites and sensors first.

>>24083764

Second this. Just take the propellant from a flare and wrap some cardboard arond it so it looks like a mk3 really. And we shall add a card and sign it.

>>24083792

We'll need a capsule ready to stick stuff (or people or birds) in!

>>24083792
The Capsule is needed in order to actually retrieve the film from the Camera Module.
We'd need to build an entire dedicated research facility to produce a radio transmission system that can record, send, and then display video. Not only would that require a new research facility, but a power source which was only just invented last turn and would need to be researched up, the video unit which would need to be researched, invented, then researched up, and it STILL needs the Capsule because the Mk4a is the Lower Stage and there must be a minimum of 2 stages for something to achieve orbit.

This is in the rules and was mentioned by GodMother yesterday.

>>24083908
I never said anything about a camera or video transmission unit.

>>24083941
Then what other kind of satellite or sensor are you talking about?
Because any one of those not already invented and being refined needs to be invented first.
And they all need power, which means that either the radio-reactive power cell or the photovoltaic power cell needs to be improved.
And finally, they still need a Capsule, because the Mk1 and Mk2 won't be able to get that much equipment into orbit; only the Mk4a with a Capsule can.

>>24083977
Actualy you only need a capsule for sending things back to earth. You need a thruster and or RCS system to move around in orbit. Technicaly you need both to get home as things in orbit tend to stay there, as per the laws of universal motion.

I need to read up on the last week of threads. Keep up the good work.

>>24084029
But don't we still need a second stage for actually putting anything in orbit?
At least, that's what's implied by the descriptions of the lower stages and of the chart which has the Orbital Insertion as a point.

>>24083977
Why yes, I do think it would be a good idea to invent and refine things which will prove useful in finding out exactly what sort of conditions exist outside the atmosphere.
Because we wouldn't want to send up a live subject only to get them cooked alive by microwaves.

>>24084029

depends on the altitude; low orbits will decay pretty quickly.

>>24084068
Yes, the Mk4 (archangel?) can put 6 units of mass into orbit. but changing orbits or de-orbiting will require thrusters, and a capsule will be required if any part of the spacecraft, such as photographic plates or a pilot, is to return in one piece.

A mass 1 capsule could hold a small animal or photographic plates, but not a human. It could be used to test the concept of returning things from orbit however.

>>24084100
Then can you explain this wording?
>A Lower Stage component is used for a single Liftoff or Orbital Insertion burn
A single Lower Stage component is only used for a single burn, Liftoff or Orbital Insertion.
Shouldn't this then require 2 Lower Stages, first for the Liftoff and the second for the Orbital Insertion?

>>24084136
I assume SpaceCore means and, hrm that would make the game a lot harder if it's Or. Although I suppose a mass 1 engine could do a good job of finishing the insertion.

>>24084177
>Although I suppose a mass 1 engine could do a good job of finishing the insertion.
Except that even the simplest satellite with a sensor package would be a Mass 2 Payload (Sensor Package, and assuming we're using the old Mass 1 radio transmitter/battery unit from the Mk 2). The second stage Rocket would still need to be a Mass 2 engine to finish the Orbital Insertion.

>>24084228
A thruster only needs 1 mass for every 10 mass of ship, and 1 mass of fuel per engine mass per burn. Things are much more efficient when you are in orbit.

>>24084256
Yeah, but, that's when it reaches orbit. Isn't the Orbital Insertion burn still before that?
Since it says that thrusters cannot be used for Liftoff and Orbital Insertion burns?

>>24084285

Sorry I derped out.

Basically yeah, you need two lower stages (or two clusters of lower stages).

Most of any given space rocket is used up to get into low earth orbit.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071127225838AA5l4A7

>>24084369

Rule zero definitely :)

The problem is that a lower stage is HUGE compared to a thruster.

To give you a comparison: It takes more than 4000 m/s deltaV to get into orbit in Kerbal Space Program, and only around 1600 to go to the Mun, land, take off again, and return to Kerbin!

>>24084256

I don't want my system to wreck the game, please do use it or mod it or ditch it as you see fit of course!!!!!

>>24084364
Ahh, so we will need to be building a three stage rocket. Which will involve either building a mass 12 booster, or a mass 3 upper stage.

Either way the Mk3 managed to get into orbit because the probe can make a single burn by itself.

>>24084400
No it's fine.

>>24084410
So then we'll need to invent the upper stage Mk4.
Relabeling things, it would be:
Mk4a (Archangel-1) - Mass 3 Orbital Insertion Stage
Mk4b (Archangel-2) - Mass 6 Liftoff/Mid-Stage Lifter
Mk4c (Archangel-3) - Mass 12 Liftoff

>>24084473
And the new Mk4a would allow for a Mass 3 Capsule, which has a Payload capacity of 2 (Cameras and Thrusters, or Life-Support and Thrusters), or it can carry a Mass 3 Satellite (Mass 1 Power Cell, Mass 1 Sensors Package, Mass 1 Radio Transmitter) though without an RCS it can't correct its orbit.

>>24084473
You could keep the normal labeling system. The A part could be re-used for both the light and heavy versions. one with a payload weight of 3 holding a second stage above it, and another with a payload weight of 6 with a booster stage below it.

>>24084473

Wait, we only need a launch stage and an O.I. stage to make it to orbit.

We can also cluster them together, so for example, three Mk4a's will take 3 mass to orbit, which is just enough for a Vostok type mission if everything works well.

The catch is that clustering is less reliable (two stages together : average rolls, more than two: use the worst roll)


>>24084525

That's what they do IRL, there's a falcon9 and a falcon9 heavy for example.

Back to the story! I vote we set up for a manned mission, and send up a could-be-manned capsule with some instrumentation and a small critter.

>>24084551
I decided clustering is too derpy. If you want to use a lot of rockets to launch something, cut it into pieces and dock them in orbit like the Russians did.

>>24084582

Makes sense!

>>24084551
The Mass 12 Mk4c was just an idea for a 3rd rocket in the series that could be used for liftoff, so that a Mass 6 Mk4b with a Payload of 6 could be used at the Orbital Insertion stage.

Otherwise, I was thinking that we need to invent the Mass 3 Mk4a so that we can put it atop the Mass 6 Mk4b, with the Mk4b doing Liftoff and the Mk4a doing the Orbital Insertion with a Payload of 3.

>>24084635

Sounds good to me. Afterwards the 4b can be used as the OI stage for the 4c and so on.

>>24084635
Spend 9 points on the Mk4b Y/N?

>>24084658
y!

>>24084658
Y

>>24084658
This is for a Mass 6 Mk4b? Or a Mass 3 Mk4b which will handle Orbital Insertion?

>>24084686
The Archangel is mass 6 already, it just needs a mass 3 insertion stage to get it's payload into orbit. This is what is being built.

>Inventing Mk4b
Type: Upper stage, Mass 6, Capacity 6, Reliability 5/10

It gets a small bonus to reliability because it's only slightly more complicated than the Mk3 (half size rounding down)

21 RnD points remain. The press will arrive at the end of the turn.

>>24084793

We will need a retrorocket. Getting into orbit is great but getting out is a necessity!

>>24084807

(I'd go the RCS route rather than the thruster router for it)

>>24084793
We shall spend 1 RP to invent a Sensors Package.
We shall spend 1 RP to invent an RCS.
We shall spend 10 RP on the Mk4a, distribute 5/5.
We shall spend 9RP on the Mk4b, Reliability 9/15.

We still have the prototype Mk4a that we can show off, correct?

>>24084793
Ask Minerva what sort of sensors we might find useful.

>>24084861

That we do! All that looks good to me.

>>24084862

You know, now that we've sent up a transmitter we should send a receiver...

>>24084813
Mass 1 test capsule (Not enough room for a human), guidance module, RCS motor.

That's 3 points of payload. Another possible mass 3 payload would be a radio-light beacon, photovoltaic cells, and guidance module.

Two possible mission profiles for the light configuration. Sending a man up would require an C as a lower stage, and an A as the upper. But you wold have much more room to work with with 6 mass in orbit.

>>24084862
Basic sensors are included in the probe, slightly more advanced ones are included in the radio-light, and camera parts. Simple experiments can be sent up in the mass 1 capsule, Complex experiments will require a manned capsule or habitat.

>>24084895
So here's the plan for the next few months:
Launch a Mk4a/b with a Radio Satellite.
Launch a Mk4a/b with a Sensor Package.
Launch a Mk4a/b with the test capsule.
Launch a Mk4a/b with the Camera Module in a capsule.
Invent the Mass 12 Mk4c Lifter.
Invent the Mass 6 Manned Capsule.
Launch a Mk4b/c with a Manned Capsule.
Get First Man in Orbit.


The Mk4b is a Mass 6 Upper Stage meant to perform the Orbital Insertion. It can be cut in half into a Mass 3 Upper Stage with a Mass 3 Payload so that it can be lifted by the Mass 6 Mk4a Lower Stage.

Is this right?

>>24085008

That... looks a little slow. Won't the Southlanders catch up?

>>24084977
>>24085008
>Simple experiments can be sent up in the mass 1 capsule
So instead of inventing a Sensor Package Module, we just need to put more RP into the Radio-Waylight and Camera Module in order to be able to perform the experiments on how much radiation is up there, and how it affects living things?

>>24085026
I actually want the Southlanders to catch up.
If they lag too far behind, then they're likely to give up, and there will be no competition.
But if they believe they can catch up, and are allowed to do so, then Midland will start to feel pressured and the competition will become more exciting for the publics of both nations.

>>24085028
The only way to be sure of the effect on living things is to send a small animal up in a capsule.

>>24085008
>Launch a Mk4a/b with the Camera Module in a capsule.
No room, the mass one capsule can't fit a camera module inside. You'll either have to develop a wireless radioscope camera, or wait for a bigger spacecraft for that mission plan.

Confirm expenditures?

>>24085076

Confirmed!

>>24085050

True that. Hopefully the Huns will grok the whole "friendly competition" but but I doubt it.

>>24085076
>Confirm expenditures?
Remove 'Invent Sensors Package' since the Waylight and Camera Modules do the same thing and they're further along in development.
Take that 1RP and put it towards the Mk4b Reliability.

>>24085116
I'm against this. We need more than just the Waylight.

>>24085076
Confirmed.

>>24085116
>>24085181
Once a radiolight beacon is deployed successfully, an astroscope can be forked off of it, saving RnD points.

>>24085116

We need instrumentation that could tell us about all the possible things that could kill a fleshy human out beyond the atmosphere. I'm not sure if the camera and Waylight are sufficient.

>>24085208
That is what the capsule with a small animal in it is for.

>>24085205
And an astroscope would do what, exactly?
>>24085215
That will only tell us that there IS something that will kill a fleshy human, and what manner of horrible, painful death it will inflict. It is unlikely to tell us how to prevent it from doing so.
We need a more scientific approach. With lights, and dials, and possibly even little spinny bits.

>>24085215
>>24085263

Could we compromise and perhaps put a sensor package up with our adorable animal sacrifice? It would be a larger payload, but it would allow us to kill two (metaphorical) birds with one stone. Or maybe even literal birds, if we use them as our payload.

>>24085263
>>24085331
The capsule contains plenty of science things already. That's what it's for, to prove that a living thing can survive in the void if encased in a protective shell.

Well the points are spent and It's time for bed. The press will arrive tomorrow. Good night.

>>24085380
Finally something I can help with.