Let me post a moral question for you /tg/. In our long running Call of Cthulhu game, we have an unusual creation of our DM.Eldritch Savants. People who, through some deformity in the brain that we don’t really understand, are naturally unaffected by things that would cause most people SAN damage. Now not to say they are immune, they just are much MUCH more resistant than normal people. They don’t get off scot-free though. They are, by the very nature of their ability, sociopaths to some degree. They also tend to be very uncanny-valley and clearly don’t have a normal human point of view.We’ve run into a number of them during our campaign, some helped us and some hindered. They tend to get wrapped up in the supernatural by shear virtue of being the person in the room who’s brain doesn’t just go ‘NOPE!’ the moment things get freaky. Now we’ve run into one who has discovered that one day “The Stars Will Be Right” and the Old Ones will return, and mankind as we know it won’t survive this event.The guy’s solution? Mankind had to evolve. So using a mix of advanced medical science and sorcery, he’s performing experiments to create a way to transform humanity into a shape that can survive the Old Ones rising. We can’t FIGHT them obviously, but we can live like the cockroaches of the new world, too resilient and numerous to wipe out.So what’s the issue? Well first off his work would make a Nazi medical experiment look like getting a booster shot in comparison. More importantly, the things we would have to become would not be human. Not in body, not in mind. He used the Eldritch Savants as a STARTING point for the mentality needed.Now the question is, do we stop him? He’s made it clear he honestly is doing what he sees as the only way to save us from extinction, but is it worth it?
>>23620462Yes you stop him. If humanity really were the Only Sane Beings. The only spark of reason and virtue in the cosmos, then we should rather die then fall to the endless corruptions of the old ones.Tl;DR: Better Extinct as Men, then Alive as Monsters.
>>23620547Dude, it's Call of Cthulhu. The universe doesn't care, and sanity is just a point of view at best. Why not go for it?
Well, I wouldn't let a race of sociopaths dictate the fate of the human race, no matter how logical or necessary their goal is.On the other hand, I'd rather us not go extinct, and we already are like cockroaches compared to most Mythos beings, so perhaps a little bio-engineering wouldn't be too bad?
I'm kinda torn on this to be honest. In the CoC world the Old Ones rising has been an inevitable axe over our heads for years. Now we have one, and ONLY one way out.It's horrific, but the alternative is annihilation, so...
The Yithians mentally murdered entire species to save their own. Why should Humanity do anything less?
I say do it, this is the best (only) plan for the Old Ones rising I've heard that doesn't involve anime-levels of bullshit.
Well, if we consider how much the literature of Lovecraft himself is concerned with the degeneration of the human race, then it would make sense that the players would resist Savants to the fullest extent, however futile the endeavor may be.
Can I just say I'm so stealing 'Eldritch Savants' for my next CoC game.You don't let your player be one right?
What are some other weird entities and phenomena that can be added to the Mythos without it just being fan-fiction?They don't need to be new Old Ones, but I'm becoming a little worried that the Mythos is a bit too stagnant.
>>23622045Hell no! That's a free get-out-of-insanity card. Besides, you're suppose to witness the horror, not be it.
Holy fuck, your Keeper is awesome.I thought my "turns out the guy you thought was a vampire-cultists isnt a cultist or a vampire, but a normal dude trying to start a cult war in order to go back in time and destroy said cults once and for all" was good. But your keeper is miles ahead of me.
>>23620462Certainly you stop him. Just because his movie is the miniscule chance of possibly saving humanity from an extinction event doesn't give him a Free Get Out Jail card. As you said, even if he succeeds, he hasn't saved humanity from anything; he has only brought forth a new breed of beings into existence. What he is doing is nothing more than intellectual masturbation.
Question? Just how 'inhuman' is this new race?Because if there is enough human in them, at least mentaly, then I would say yes. If you can look at the final product in behavioral terms and go 'yea, I can see mankind reflected in those eyes' then YES! You let him do it!It's not perfect preservation, but it's better than total oblivion.
SPECIAL BREED OF HUMANS WHO AREN'T AFFECTED BY THE PREMISE OF THE SETTING420/10 would uptoke again for top lel /b/eddit time for me now too STONED
>>23625341Go home Anon, you're stoned.
>>23622149Malleus Monstrorum It should have all the creatures/entities needed for your game, which were taken from a wide range of weird fiction, not just CM stories. Frankly, CM as a setting is rather stagnant as for today. It had been used constantly by writers good and bad (mostly bad) since the 30s, and especially with liberal use of the subject and anything related in today's media, there was no longer much value and originality to it.Use HPL's literary concept to write your own story instead.
>>23625676Actually I'm just mad.
Not-really-a-Keeper-but-looking-to here. Is there a huge difference between editions or can I just pick anyone out of the bag? The sixth looks like the easiest to get since it's the new one but I don't know jack about any.
>>23620462Well, why not interbreed with deep ones if you're so worried about humanity surviving when the stars are right?And then you don't have to worry about doing inhuman experiments, just sleep with the fishes.(And of course eldritch savants don't loose SAN to seeing mythos horrors. 0 is the minimum SAN score, you can't go below that)
>>23625891There's a few rules variations depending on how far you go back. But yeah 6th is good. I don't think there's as many edition grognards when it comes to CoC. Most just save it for hating on the d20 version.
>>23626356>>0 is the minimum SAN score, you can't go below thatSo they're functionally insane...wow, that's scary. It also makes them the most human horror I've heard of that still counts as inhuman. At least cultists are misguided people.
>>23626356Damn it! If we're going to be horrible monstrosities we're gonna do it our OWN way!Gimme some giant claw hands and tentacles out of my back man!
If you're going to this extreme, wouldn't it be possible to just GTFO Earth?
>>23625848>>23625341I don't see the downside of this. What's wrong with doing your own thing for your own campaign? He's not rewriting everything ever.
>>23620462Do your characters know or realise that the whole "old ones will return when stars are right" prophecy is true?If yes, the decision is yours.If not, then they shouldn't even consider 'yes' to be an answer. This guy should look like just another madman.
>>23626546Ah, yea they do...it was kinda told to us by the same guy. The revelation was a SAN roll all unto itself.So we know, but we have reason to doubt his sincerity.
< Best case scenario
>>23620462I like it. Might even steal the idea. A good bang.But I don't get why you should ask us. It's something you gotta decide between PCs.At best, we could give you a suggestion about what your character would do (it's not you the one that choose, but him)... if we knew what character he was.
>>23626523To clarify, I mean that if you can pull of something like warping the entire species, you could probably set up a generation ship with that time/resources.If they're just cockroaches, doesn't that mean civilization is fucked anyway? So it's hardly human.
>>23626571So:a) Do you have reason to trust this guy is telling the truth?b) Do your characters know about the Eldritch Savant thing and that he is one?c) Is this guy legitimately sane or has he been broken by this truth, one way or another?If the answer to one or more of those is 'no,' you should probably disagree with him and go against his plans. Even if all of those questions are answered with 'yes,' it's a coin toss.
>>23626611a) Yes, but not beyond all doubtb) Yes to both.c) Yes as far as we can tell...he's acting very...VERY...disturbingly sane.
>>23626645Does he show logic, rationality, compassion and empathy in his actions?There are limitless degrees of insanity to the point that if there is something disturbing about this guy, he's likely brain-hurt one way or another.
>>23626684Well, insanity doesn't necessarily mean you're irrational or illogical
>>23626441They're sociopaths with an inhuman viewpoint and a lack of empathy.That's kind of a textbook definition of 0 SAN. People like that are also the kind of person who will make a deal with inhuman horrors for the sake of power or living longer, simply because they won't feel any aversion to doing so.
>>23626684Logic and rationality, in spadesCompassion and empathy? Eh, on a global scale I suppose...like he would unhesitatingly murder three people himself to save 300. Since the entire species is on the line...Ah, got class, be away for a while
>>23626571So, you've been told by a sociopathic genius that the world's going to end, but he's got a plan to save humanity, and it involves doing utterly monstrous things, but has a good chance of working, but you'd have to give up your humanity?Welcome to the winning side, you're a new cultist.
>>23626753You must admit, it's comparatively rational compared to a lot of cultists out there...
>>23626739Final question then. Has he shown any signs of regret or remorse or dismay over the violence he has to commit or does he do it without batting an eyelid?If he can kill someone so casually in the name of his own goals, then he's insane in his own way, even if he's immune to the OH-GOD-TENTACLES-MY-BRAIN sanity destruction.
>>23626775Yes. He says he is remorseful for his actions, but sees them as part of the greater good."If this is the price that mankind must pay to live, then so be it." in his words.
>>23626765A lot of cults are.I mean, look at the Esoteric Order of Dagon. "Keep secrets, offer brides to the Deep Ones, and in exchange get gold, fish and power."How about the shub-niggurath cultists? "We do large rituals and occasionally sacrifice an animal or human in exchange for making our land, animals and selves more fertile"An awful lot of cults are joined, not because they want to end the world, but for perfectly sensible reasons.But every so often you get a psycho group.
>>23626793Yeah, but does he actually show it or does he just say it in a cold monotone? Has he ever displayed emotion?
>>23626998What do you think showing emotion would prove? The greatest and most dangerous manipulators can fake emotion.These guys really have to worry about what to do when investigators show up to spoil their plans for saving humanity by turning them into horrific monsters.Do they go for "You fools! It's the only way!" or "I was only following orders"?
>evolve>survive the universe ending
>>23621430because we are better than that
>>23625341they aren't playable
>>23626835>I mean, look at the Esoteric Order of Dagon. "Keep secrets, offer brides to the Deep Ones, and in exchange get gold, fish and power."Bring up ancient machines, breed shoggoths, plan the extermination and or enslavement of mankind.
>>23627262Extermination and Enslavement? Bah, that's crazy. What would the Deep Ones want with the small amount of land above the surface.If anything they'd try to get us to be more enviromentally sound. Stop overfishing and dumping in the ocean.I suppose we would eventually go extinct, but that would be more likely through a genetic uplift program of cohabitative interbreeding.
>>23627318Annoying pesky humans are better as breeding mares then people who shit up seas and act like they're sentient. The Shadow Over Innsmouth, recall the old drunkard's last bit of rambling before being ganked.
>>23627231>BetterOnce we've colonized the timestream, get back to me on that.
>>23627339Which bit in particular? I did find this: "They'd ruther not start risin' an' wipin' aout human-kind, but ef they was gave away an' forced to, they cud do a lot toward jest that."So yeah, no plans to exterminate humanity unless they have to, otherwise they're happy to have the run of the majority of the planet and occasionally trade with us.
>>23626523Sure you can!>HELLO LITTLE SPACE MAN
>>23626370But...but anon....I LIKED the d20 version! No I didn't. I played it once and had a level 4 detective with 45 hitpoints shoot his Nyarlathotep-possessed buddy to death with little-to-no repercussions because loltoughness.
>>23627430Oh, you, young feller? Wal, even ef I hain't told nobody nothin' yet, I'm a'goin' to naow! Yew jest set still an' listen to me, boy - this is what I ain't never told nobody... I says I didn't get to do pryin' arter that night - but I faound things about jest the same!""Yew want to know what the reel horror is, hey? Wal, it's this - it ain't what them fish devils hez done, but what they're a-goin' to do! They're a-bringin' things up aout o' whar they come from into the taown - been doin' it fer years, an' slackenin' up lately. Them haouses north o' the river be-twixt Water an' Main Streets is full of 'em - them devils an' what they brung - an' when they git ready ... I say, when they git... ever hear tell of a shoggoth?"Hey, d'ye hear me? I tell ye I know what them things be - I seen 'em one night when ... eh-ahhh-ah! e'yahhh ... "The hideous suddenness and inhuman frightfulness of the old man's shriek almost made me faint. His eyes, looking past me toward the malodorous sea, were positively starting from his head; while his face was a mask of fear worthy of Greek tragedy.
>>23620656Because of what he just said, of course. It's a subjective thought, but values in the Call of Cthulhu-verse being what they are, its not like he's right OR wrong.
>>23627499reminds me of the ending of Deadspace 3
I've fallen into a trap when Keeper-ing: I plan too much. I have to make sure everything is logical, makes sense, fits into this little world I've made and what not.The result is nice, but very inflexible. I need to focus more on just scaring my players. Advice?If this is the wrong place to ask this, I apologize.
>>23620462Think about it, this guy is no different than a clued in fish fucker, a man selling us out so the Yith will put his mind in some primordial slime, or those guys who keep trying to tell you how great it is living in a brain cylinder.Sure, they or their descendants may have a shot at outliving us but look at them.More to the point, his solution is to turn us into horrible vermin that'll be tough and virile enough to survive, all he's doing is making CATTLE for Cthulhu's stake brunch (or the polyps, or the Mi-go). We wont be human, we wont qualify for more alive than a thousand starved, steroid fueled swine packed so close together they practically bathe in each others shit while inhuman butchers pick the best out with a crane and casually grind them to shoggoth fuel, never even caring what these THINGS used to be.He'll I'd prefer the cultists who worship Cthulhu just so he'll eat them first over this guy.And besides, his baseline is savant right? He's not saving mankind, he's looking to save himself and his ab-human kin, and take us all down screaming with him.
>>23627533Yeah, Ghroth is like their bigger cousin, kinda like the horrible eye better than the semi retarded mouth thing myself. Markers are a nice touch though.
>>23627595And holy fucking Christ is that ever scary.Sorta reminds me of the whole "Singularity" thing, how humanity needs to transcend the border between living and machine because science or something. Sounds kinda scary, when you think about it.That's one of the best types of horror: loss of humanity on a basic level. I applaud OP's Keeper for using something this ingenious in his games. I'm sure as shit stealing it.
>>23627675And even better? He's got the investigators considering it.
>The despairification of mankind is to prepare us for the old ones.>Super High School Level Despair is actually trying to save mankind.
>>23627726Yeah. Man, OP, now I have Keeper-envy.
>>23627571Just hint at things. We don't know the true purpose of aglets, but we do know that it's sinister.
>>23627757>>implying anyone has played that game
>>23627796Oh, trust me, I'm VERY good at hinting.Are aglets those things on the end of shoe laces? Because, if so, they're there because OHGODTHEILLUMINATIFOUNDMEHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP
I think the important question is to envision those neo humans, living in the new world you allowed them to, and ask...would they thank you for allowing them to exist or not?
>>23620462Stop him. Humanity does not survive if everything that makes us human is stripped away. Our physiology, our empirical knowledge, our empathy, our reason... All of these things are invaluable to the human experience. Strip away one and you might as well take the rest.Plus, the people he's experimenting on certainly won't see the new world, will they? They won't even live long enough to see the end of theirs. That in and of itself is enough reason to stop him.
...you know what guys? I've made a decision. I was on the fence, but after reading everything I know my course. The Old Ones are so strong; the only way we'll live is if after our evolved selves aren't wiped out indirectly they decide we aren't worth the effort of taking out directly. What will become of us then? Then it hit me, slaves, livestock, and pets. What future is that?One day, worlds across the stars would recoil in fear and dread at the sight of mankind. Both because they are horrid, and because they herald the coming of their masters."When the Old Ones sleep, the Hu-Mun pets guard them by building their foul nests around the resting places. And when the Old Ones are awake the Hu-Man precedes and follows them, scavengers for larger predators feeding on their scraps. Beware the Hu-Man, for they herald doom."I don't want that for mankind, I don't want that period. Because it's not just about survival, it's about being WORTHY of survival. It's about what being human is, what it represents. So come next session, I'll say my peace."NO! What you're doing is inhuman, what you're creating is inhuman, and you sir are surly inhuman! If you are our future then I want no part of it! We'll try and find another way, without losing who we are. If we can't then it's our time, but NEVER will we become this just to hide from death like a shivering rodent!"“We know who we are, we’re human. And we’ll live, die, and choose our own fate as human! It’s our one right in this mad universe. So this experiment is over; it’s over because we decide it’s over! Now are you coming quietly or not?”
>>23628976Good going OP, you avoided the siren call of becoming a cultist.
>>23628976Now I need to run a game where I don't tell my players they are all actually enlightened cthulhu entities trying to escape the ravaging monsters of the old ones and their hu-men pets.
>>23628976>We know who we are>it’s over because we decide it’s over!I see the Babylon 5 in your speech...and I approve. Well said man.
>>23628976Well, now that that's done, I want some 'Hu-Man' stories! Anyone up for writing it?We have a good writer in the house here, anyone?
>>23630279Well I did write the "Veil of Madness" story some time back. Did anyone like that?
>>23630279Im tinkering on something actually.
>>23631248The man spoke at length of our uncertain future and the forced evolutionary process that would ensure our place in, it came to me, as part realization, part vision. Surely it was influencedby something beyond ordinary perception, for what i was granted was a jaunt into the futurethis scientist had promised.---On a foreign sphere beneath strange stars innumerable filthy creatures toiled in the shadow ofa massive and malignant, as yet unfinished, ziggurat. Long lines of these degenerates came wriggling from the horizon carrying stone, clay and bones. All individually there to heed thesiren call of whatever malevolent entity that slept beneath the ziggurat.The creatures were of vague humanoid shape, having two rugged limbs for locomotion and two morecrooked and long sinewy appendages, ending in stumpy fingers crowned by nails, cracked and dirtyBetween their shoulders sat sunken heads with hideous pig-like faces and jagged lamprey-like maws, from which hung globs of thick viscous drool and gurgling breathing sounds emanated.But what struck me as most hideous of these things was their eyes, malplaced and strangelyfamiliar. The dreamy absentminded, nay hypnotized look they had about them fell just short of shrouding the still human glimmer that faintly shone through.
>>23631911They walked, or slouched towards the distant monolith, weighed down by their burdens. Some would, aparantly heedless of their own ailments, collapse in mid stride. As they fell they weretrampled without care by their companions, the only exception being the few that would momentarilystop to feed on this putrid mash.As these corpses were trampled and kicked out of the way for the unending stream of wandering swine-men they would fall into pits and ditches that carved up the barren lands beside the roads, where in hundreds of their young festered in the rot. These slug like spawn with deformed dwarf like arms had heads with a sickening likeness to children, if not for the constantly gorged mouth-holes. What manner of reproduction could yield such horrible offspring i dared not dwell upon.I looked away, feeling sick i began to notice some of the stones they carried was reminicentnot of boulders dug or carved from the earth, but orderd, even decorated masonry. So too i notedthat some of the bones they carried was not their own. Indeed they seemed to carry with them theremains of civilisation, however inhuman. My heart sank further as i saw more remnants in the barren waste around me. Worse still among the endless masses i began to notice strange scaled creatures bound in chains or frayed rope, and dragged along by the degenerate pig-kin. I felt pity, even sorrow then for those creatures, however alien and perhaps primitive they may have been, none deserved the fate that awaited themin the shadow of that jagged pillar ahead.
>>23631930It was then i felt my gaze being drawn ahead, towards that jagged structure that dominated the horizon. My concioussness drifted closer to the shadow that blotted out the alien sun andi passed into the opressive twilight under it.The winding paths of the toiling masses closed under me into one gargantuan tide that wound upa highway of trampled bone. As the road neared the base of the Ziggurat it became aparant thatthese creatures made no distinction between building with mortar and stone, or with bones androt of the fallen. Here at the base the creatures shook of the mindlessness of their walk and their dreamstate wasinfused with sudden purpose, each somehow knowing exactly where their piece fit into the greaterstructure. I saw then the overseers. Like their kind but bigger, fatter, and with muscles so infused with power their skin looked set too burst open, clad in strange occult vestments andcovered by ritual scars. These had not the mindless eyes of their kin but rather their eyesburned with the foul enlightenment of secrets not ment for any creature of our world. Indeedthe power that filled them hung in the air about them as ephemeral whisps of black smoke.
>>23620462He's a special snowflake. Don't just stop him, destroy his work and kick his ass.
>>23631950It was there i saw, an aparant ruler of the scale folk, dragged before one such overseer. Forcedto its knees by its captors it made a wailing sorrowful sound as it looked at the megastructureand as it turned to face its executioner, it uttered one word."Hu-Mun.""Ia, Cao-thour!" the overseer replied.In a cacopony of gurling voices the crowd repeated the exclaimaition, as if by an inbred compulsion, and the overseer let out a strangely human like laugh before dervouring this scaled king whole.Beneath the world i could feel a malevolence shift in its sleep.---As i woke from my trance i saw the scientiest stand silent before me, and around me the concernedfaces of my friends and colleagues. I righted myself and straightened out my suit. I cleared my throatand told the madman what i thought of his plan.<<insert OPs speech>>End.
>>23631911>>23631930>>23631950>>23631974You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. You have my deepest approval.I'd even ask the DM to work that in if I felt it was worth the risk of botching my resulting SAN check.
>>23632072Your words honor me good sir. Feel free to pass it on if you wish.
I have to say, this Eldritch Savant thing is an interesting concept. Adds more horror to the human side of the Mythos. We have enough horror of the tentacled variety already.