Well, if it helps I know the put in a couple new restrictors on growth factors to help balance that. THE WORST one for myco-meta has been atmospheric pollution TBH, it's so goddamn nasty and forces all plants on the board into sulfur dependency and allows for actively causing the whole ecosystem to crash every other turn. There's also soil acidification which just sucks for everybody.

I run an African Victoria Basin aquatic biotope list which gives me an average pH 7.2-8.6, so the acidity changes haven't really affected my game so far, but I'm worried the next FAQ update will nerf the effectiveness of my Nymphaea lotus.

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>>23283000
Lucky you you've got buffer to handle it. I'm stuck with a fairly neutral granite soil for the list I run which is mostly Temperate Hardwoods, so not much variety but hell of an ability to take a cold snap to the face.

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How do you handle when people make your soil super fucking silty or Clay based for that matter. I've been running almost solely Rosids and have been picking plants that like Loam and sand more than anything. Is there a trick to getting around such dense hard to breathe soils?

Flora war:yu gi o::science the hypothesis:magic the gathering?

>>23283053

Check your extended errata, there's a new Flora World release that allows players to field Earth Worm colonies (I know, I know, in before Anamalia-fag etc) in Temperate that can boost granite soil fertility in 3-4 turns. They're more vulnerable to acidity which might slow you down, but the effectiveness of a phosphate and nitrogen buff can't be denied.

>>23283413
True, I've been looking into that and possibly shelling out a little extra to get the Myco-spikes that everyones raving about. Apparently they're a two turn to activate boost that increases fertility by three points. There's been a huge push in the meta as of late I think to go towards all these organic moves which is wild.

>>23283400
Something like that, yes.

>>23283345

Have a look for some Magnolia trees. They prefer clay AND low pH, so it's a perfect counter to acid pollution too.

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So, wait, are you telling me that if I buy into Earthworms I can actually improve fertility? What bullshit is this I thought that we could only use NPK fertilizers for that!

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>2013
>Still relying on insect count to spread

>>23286015
Works better than wind or rain and hell of a lot less likely to bite us in the ass fernfag.

I've been able to supplement my list with some solid intercropping synergies, as well as getting some legumes in on off-turns to increase my overall nitrogen.

>>23286220
have you looked into using lugume trees?

>>23286301
What madnessis this? Trees that produce nitrogen? And give a shade bonus no doubt.

buddy of mine runs a S.O.D list. terrible at winning but loves to screw me over.

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Foolsl don't know about my celium.

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Yep. I'm that guy.

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So I actually got kicked out of my play group recently. turns out they don't take kindly to Fungi gardens, why do they say they are so broken? Like I know if you take cordyceps they can wreck the insects that seed the garden, but I don't Worst thing I take is the upgrade that allows me to destroy corn which gives corn users more money instead of resources, because it's considered a delicacy. I realize my fungi mess with peoples stuff but why so much hate?

>>23287448

You try playing against an opponent who spreads across his entire side in the first five turns, see if you like it.

>>23287448
Pretty much man and besides how are you even feeding those fungi? They can't do autotroph shit so you need some expensive often dangerous baselines

>>23287492
if people didn't try to seed all over the board first turn I don't think that would happen.

>>23287541
hey now ,as someone who plays pioneers as a first turn instead of letting the other guy get set up I resent that. that seeding is what we need to get base fertility up.

>>23287524
All the people I've played against super grow their stuff, which has a high crop failure. I see lots of people using gore as fertilizer which is easy to mold. So between mold and my toadstools it's rather easy to consume the entire board.

>>23287448
You're almost as bad as the fucks who play Japanese knotweed.

On that note, my local group has banned plants with the invasive species trait because it just makes the game fucking unplayable.

>>23287650
fuckin kudzu right?

>>23287650

>WAAAAH! I can't grow in a competitive meta!

Why don't you go run your little Ficus-level shit and let real growers grow blackthumbfag.

>>23287650
but see the only way to counter invasive species is to play another from the same set that'll also be invasive

>>23287735
You're what's wrong with this hobby.

I mean fuck, something is obviously wrong when an invasive species deck is the most expensive deck to buy directly and top of the fucking meta.

They knew what they were doing when they released it, it's an easy win for retards with rich parents to buy their plants for them.

Some of us have to work and can't drop everything on the hobby.

>>23287790
Some of us eat our game materials

>>23287650
>On that note, my local group has banned plants with the invasive species trait because it just makes the game fucking unplayable.
Wahhh, someone beat me with a Phyllostachys deck once

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Just started getting into this not long ago. I picked up some Bigleaf Aster, but I'm not sure what sort of tree to use alongside it. I'm currently looking at Black Spruce, Paper Birch, or Quacking Aspen.
Got any advise for a newbie?

Actually, they're been some errata and depeinding on the invasive there are certain tricks you can pull. For example any aqautic plant now has weakeness to Grass carp and Kudzu is hella weak when it suffers drought/harvest/livestock forage

>>23287984
Welcome to the basic set kiddo. What climate zone are you dealing with that has a huge impact on the plant set you can use. Also never ever forget toxicodendrons ever.

>>23287984
*Quaking.

>>23288019
Going with a set that doesn't get destroyed by winter. I like the fire ecology that the spruce has, but I don't know if it's entirely compatible with the aster.

>>23288161
Most likely not, you need to disversify it a bit, I would suggest a Norway Spruce and possible A few maples to go with it. If you can try to find other herbaceaous plants to grow along with the Aster as that will give you ecology and animalia bonuses.

>>23288161

Get your trees packed closely together, seed them regularly throughout the early game as you introduce your Aster in their shade.

Focus on keeping the climate down over your side, to make it harder for your opponents to infiltrate, but lay off in the late Summer when your Aster bloom, get that insect count nice and high.

Do most of your spreading with your Aster, insect pollination is so much more effective than coning, but keep your forest going through the cold seasons.

I'd look into some kind of pH balancer, too, since you've got temperature defence covered.

anyone got a solid tropical wet list? I am also looking into a kelps list

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What bugs me is that we've had this thread many times but we haven't actually made the rules for it, yet. Step up, /tg/

>>23288331
Kelps are tricky and have you looked into the Mangroves? There's not many species so it packs a whallop for a small budget which is always nice and gives you a nasty one two with the salt water and ability to handle storms. You could also go straight cloud forest but that's a rich mans game.

>>23288331

Start by a river or pack plenty of flood cards. Lots of temperature regulation, any sudden cold will be poison.

Ignore the temptation to stray onto land where possible if you're going full kelp, just follow your river. Otherwise splash fern for a rainforest.

Really I'd recommend going rainforest anyway. No real dependancy on water, easy to maintain, and the natural insect count really helps if you splash some flowers.

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>>23288267
>>23288304
I'll look into these. Thanks a bunch!

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>>23288354
I think you miss the point of these threads sir.

>>23288737

>Farmer: the Growing

>>23289084

>Flora: The Gardening.

>>23288354
here's some rough rules ideas:
>each game starts with a "colonization" phase where players can establish their units
>turns cycle seasons, so each player will have a spring turn, summer turn, fall turn, winter turn
>each turn a die roll determines if there's some kind of major disaster which goes against each player's ecosystem's resistance

>>23289153
i would sugesst a turn as a year.

>>23289153
First two are good.

Instead of set dice rolls, I think the general concensus is there are some kind of card involved.

Perhaps cards call for different kind of dice rolls and alter a designated area of the map according to the result?

e.g.
Climate: Raise Temperature
Choose a unit you control. Roll 1d6. Raise the temperature of the chosen unit's hex and 1 hex in all directions by the result.

And some could target your opponent's units instead.

>>23289240
makes sense. The die rolls would be for a thing like "flood", "earthquake", "hurricane", "plague of goddamn locusts" etc

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>>23289346

>>23289346
each unit should also have a set of "requirements" in some fields and "benefits".

for example, you could have a unit with a high sunlight requirement that helps by increasing the Nitrogen by one tier for some number of hexes around it.

another unit might have a benefit of "pollinator nesting site" which improves the reproduction rate or success of units around it

>>23288354
first decision: people have referred to this as a miniatures game a la 40k or as a card game a la mtg. WHICH IS IT?

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>>23289240
You would also be able to institute things such as Regions or biomes that would persist until something cataclysmic changes that render the status quo not...the status quo any longer...that sounded better in my head. That way Biomes could create periodic effects such as a fire season, new landforms and oppurtunities for hte ecosystems present to change and shift. Remember nature is a state of dynamic stability where changes are ever present but life still goes on.

>>23290110
best thing to play on your opponent: humanity decides your biome is perfect for agriculture.

>>23287746

>Never heard of playing natural disaster cards to level the field.
>doesn't know old growth likes when fire ravages the underbrush.

>>23290246
whether or not it's good, a fire is a big, relatively random event. If I'm running an old growth forest, then yes, a fire would be beneficial. It would not be so in every biome, nor would it be beneficial if it happened too frequently.
tl;dr can you even intermediate disturbance hypothesis?

>>23289153

Why are you proposing new rules?
Aren't the one's we have good enough for you?

Go play MTG if Flora wars is too difficult to grok, ya wanker.

>>23290319

do you even example? Fire isn't the only disaster card that can upset an invasive species deck, ya know?

>>23290356
this is true. It is also useful to note that in attempting to counter an invasive species deck, you need a disaster that will upset your deck less than the invasive species dick.

>>23290101

Both. It's played on a board and units are miniatures.

You start with a bunch of units, and there are cards to summon units if you have suitable areas.

>>23290397
Pretty much that or have man come in and fix the mess it helped to cause.

>>23290625
which we're honestly not that good at. See: use invasives to fix invasives

>>23290625

>Never playing Fire F'row Fert

Why do you have to be this bad? As a lead in an invasive Humans can spawn multiple Devastating Blaze, leaving Rich land open to Furrow, forcing high seed counts, then Fert to outgrow the rest.

>>23290715
True though biological controls aren't neccasarily a bad thing. A lot of people don't realize that an invasive is simply exploiting a niche that wasn't there before and as such has no controls. By bringing in predators of it we suddenly have another new niche which causes a negative instead of positive feedback loop. Often these predators are fairly close to something that existed or exists in the current ecosystem and as such can comingle into a similar niche and at times possibly interbreed with them creating a better animal or plant to tackle the issue. It's not an issue of fighting fire with fire its more akin to making up for a lack of diversity to outcompete. An invasive species won't take to a new enviroment unless it's already been damaged and there's enough energy about to get a foot hold.

>>23290771
damn. had not thought of that.

>>23290771
And then often that rich soil suddenly crashes in on intself without the needed replenishment of nutrients that it should be getting coupled with increased soil loss due to exposure. Fire farming doesn't work anon, it only looks like it does. Same thing with NPK systems.

>>23290813
not necessarily. some times it's just better at exploiting said niche than the native species. case in point: New Zealand Mud Snail

>>23290845

>3 Top 8s at Worlds
>1st Green Prix: Melbourne Botanical Gardens

Yep. FFF fails for casuals who can't run it properly.

>>23290869
Have not heard about that one. Though true, in which case it needs more study as to what's happening. There's a going theory right now that some invasives aren't bad neccasarily it's only when they start causing feedback into the system that is actually harming the overall health of the enviroment that corrections need to be emplaced. Example; grapevines in North America as opposed to Kudzu

>>23290899
The definition of an invasive species is one that causes harm. If it doesn't its referred to as an introduced species. Yours, ecologyfag

>>23290880
>Melbourne
>Subcontinent known for raging wild fire has fire farming.
>Not accounting for Brazil and Panamas Steadily depleting fertility using the same practices.

That's called ecological farming buddy not FFF, using naturally occurring systems and harnessing them instead of subverting the whole thing.

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>>23290943
... Maybe you should just get out of the thread.

So is this an actual thing, or is it one of those jokes where people pretend there's a game based around something really mundane and obtuse?

>>23290934
A species can be both, The line between Invasive and Introduced is often a very blurry one. Plants especially have a tendency to escape into the wild after being 'domesticated' and introduced into new areas as house and garden varieties. It should be considered that all invasives are introduced and develop from that point often with little attention payed till its too late. The process of naturalization can take effect but, as will sometimes result in an invasive until a new balance has been met often with unforseen consequences. See; European and Asian Worm species introduced to the U.S.

It's a constant roll of the die as to how an organism will react to a new environment. It could easily have turned out the other way actually should the niche been there for kudzu and enough predation been present. But, without enough bio-diversity in the first place Due to urbanization and also massive Softwoof plantations things spiraled out of control where as when the columbian exchange occurred there was still enough diversity to absorb and integrate species.

>>23287428
Fuck off kudzu spammer
I hate running weed-killers when I could be using more fertilizer.

>>23291074
Cut the root/dry/suddenly winter forage for cattle and pigs.

>>23291059
which is why when trying to come up with examples it's usually best to use one that falls very firmly one one side of that line or the other.

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>>23291059

So we now sperg about semantics in threads about fake games too? Fucking hell /tg/.

>It completely breaks game balance.
>game balance
>Flora Wars
>ohwaityou'reseriousletmelaughharder.jpg

Next thing you know OP'll be complaining to us about how is Tulips aren't winning tournaments.

I run some orchids in my Jungle deck, but I prefer to win from a few different win conditions by running setting off my Canopy.
But god do I hate farmers.

>>23291145
fake games that should totally be real ones

>For serials though, if someone throws up a good idea for this game on kickstarter I will throw in money.

>>23291180

>Running Balls.dec
>Angry at Farmocidal.dec

You're both just gaining praise for real greenthumbs who can actually play the game. Stop being a fucking whorticulturalist.

>>23291218

>Flora Wars: A minute to learn, a lifetime to play!

>>23291240
Flora Wars: the cards have green paint on them so that at the end of session you will have a literal green thumb!
groan.mp3

So, going by the earlier mechanics, Humans could be a summonable unit that you can only place on fertile soil, which would then let you spread crop-type flora around it?

>>23291240
I want to play real Flora Wars with someone.

I'll move into an apartment with a large porch, and I'll cover that porch in a large plot of soil. I'll start at one side, and a friend will start at another. We'll go to the Home Depot or out in the forest, wherever, find some plants, and try to fucking destroy each other.

>>23291271
makes sense. Because of their capacity to disrupt ecology, though, I'd say that you have to have plants that can be selectively bred into crops already in the area, for example the grasses that were bred into maize

>>23291277

Yeah. In real Flora Wars unless you're using herbicide and real fire? You just topdeck Strawberries, Mint, Kudzu, and rush.

>>23291277
I want to be the home depot salesperson trying to help you get supplies. That would be the funniest conversation.

>>23291295
So...maize? It actually hasn't changed genetically much its just gotten horribly weird looking though I see what you mean though I think it depends what sort of humans we're talking no matter what they will do stuff to the board some might just chop a randome tree down others would level the damn map and turn it into a walmart

>>23291271

I would assume a board with pin slots that has a series of growth pins to place in it. The resources you spend are based on how many pins you can place by your species. You need to maintain upkeep for plants or have them Wither.

Humans, Fertilizer, etc. would boost the ability to prevent Wither on their specific slots, or provide an aura effect for growth, withering, or spread.

>>23291300
well besides handheld propane/butane torches yeah that whole fire thing is sorta tricky.

>>23291368

You can use various cards to enrich, harrow, expand into other squares. Your ability to expand requires a certain amount of points/square, possibly based on a maximum growth. Each turn you may invest in placing a new plant, expanding your current ones, destroying your opponents, and generally fucking with the board state. A clock is set on an amount of turns, and the person with the most points on board after X turns is the winner.

Now we need to figure out specifics.

>>23291368
The end goal of any plant is to seed, some are better at this while others take time. Trees for example can take quite literally decades to reach sexual maturity. I would say the better way to do this would be to see who could reach a certain state on the board or meet objectives first.

>>23291411
seems reasonable for expansion into empty squares. how would you propose running attempts to expand into an occupied square?

>>23291411
Well first phase would be clean slate. Which means we'd need to lay down growing conditions for that first as it would be the baseline and most likely suited to a pioneer state for plants so things like young fields, wild flowers etc would be your 'fast attack'

>>23291427
each player gets three "win condition" cards detailing what they need to do to win the game. all other players are aware of two of each player's objectives, while the third is secret

>>23291427

Yes, but if you consider each slot on the board has a randomized number of available pins, you could then have changes. Perhaps there are thresholds to expansion, so that you must seed and grow in a specific area to size X before you can expand to the next square.

I'm imagining a board with tiles that lock in upside down, so you shuffle, place your pieces, then 'lock' the new board state and flip to see what you're looking at. That way with lets say an 8 by 8 board? You're going to have a ridiculous amount of possible configurations.

>>23291463
first phase would actually be assignment of environmental variables to the play area "biome"--average day length, temperature, rainfall, altitude, etc.

>>23291482
Could go the Settlers of Catan route and have a certain kind of soil or something set up to be played or perhaps a numeric and generic 'Fertility'/water/sun levels listed on it that plants have to have to grow properly

>>23291442

Conditions of the square/hex you're spreading to will have to suit the prerequisite of the unit plant, obviously.

Perhaps different units get a Spread peg based on how the land is for its particular breeding type?

A humid land will have a high insect count, so insect pollinator units on said land will get more chances to spread per turn.

>>23291482

What I mean by this is that you have a certain amount of available 'pins' on each piece. Some may have 1 pin, 2 pin, 3... All the way up to 5 let us say. You can built up, or out based on the plant type. The amount of available pin tiles are constant, but their locations are variable.

You can't build past the perimeters. First turn you pull a random Environment card to determine growth effects out of a box of 1 or 2 dozen biomes. You're already committed with your 'deck' but can now choose your plant 'champion'. The Champion provides a base resource number, base expansion cost, etc. 1 pin spaces are easiest to capture and easiest to lose, while 5 pin spaces can be built on and built on, providing a stronghold space if you can hold it.

>>23291543

Yes you could. Or give a 'basic' set then expansion tiles with various terrains which allow you to mix, match, and prepare specific terrains.

>>23291564
But that doesn't make much sense with the nature of nature don't forget this is basically ecology the game. Hard to enter would make more sense as it has through the history of life been barriers that guided evolution. There's also the issue that each species will have a different preffered range of variables that it will want to live in as well.

>>23291946

Which is controlled through your deck. Being able to change the terrain, provide effects, etc.

>>23292019
true but they >>23291564 is talking makes it seem that though the deck is there certain areas will be harder to lose instead of the opposite. ITs piss easy to upset certain enviroments true but its a factor of how hard it was in the first place to colonize.

>>23292019
so this game would be all mundane, and no mysticism? I can get behind that, but it might be cool if the game is like a duel between the spirits of different ecosystems.
This game can evolve into many different directions.
I like the tiles and cards idea, but all cards as tiles might work too.
It'd play like MtG if Lands were the win con. I think instead of life points or anything like that, you win when you create a functional environment.

>>23292760

Ehh, it's a possibility. Perhaps terrain tiles exist and then you play from there. Plenty of options.

>>23292760
I feel like mystic stuff could be an expansion. Basic ecology is hard enough already to model with reasonable accuracy while maintaining playability.

I've been playing Fresh Water 21K, my friends are all pissed because Zebra mussels are apparently OP. They're all "fucking third edition isn't balanced" and "what's with your reproductive method? fucking unbalanced as shit"

They're just mad because it's too expensive to build a new army. I haven't lost a battle yet.

>>23292787
I would say that it would be tiles, with cards and possible counter. You'd probably have something like a 'deck' of trees plants and fungi that you could slap down to play on your various areas that would fill terrain. Then a smaller seperate deck of bad shit that could happen.

>>23293079
Depends really, Though Phosphate loading has fucked everything up to be honest and made most decks unplayable.

fuck man if that was the only issue I'd have a killer phytoplankton deck.