Turn to evil and join her in spreading darkness across the lands, of course.

Villainous romance is best romance.

A lot of people go through breakups without committing genocide.

Smite and move on.

So, why did we abandon her in the first place?

Kill her and display the corpse so that the peasantry can see what happens to those who challenge the order of society.

Lawful hot dickings.

If I fall in the course of converting a great evil to good, then I seek atonement.

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Shove my blade through one of the giant gaps in her slut-armor. Then pull it out, then shove it back in, then pull it out, then shove it back in...

Talk it over with her and come to a solution like the mature adults one would hope both of you have become.

Explain to her how a vow of chastity works since she apparently doesn't know.

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>>23016703

>>23016759
This, if something that everybody else can get through just fine set her off she was going to go off the deep end eventually.

Can a paladin fall as a result of the long-term consequences of actions they took before becoming a paladin?

Because I'm pretty sure that breaking our true love's heart so badly she becomes a supervillain is a less than morally righteous thing to do.

>>23016815
This kind of twisted bullshit fall trap is why I'm glad its no longer a part of D&D's rules.

I would beat the hell out of her with non-lethal damage, nurse her back to health, and offer her a deal.

She joins me in smiting evil and upholding good, and I see what I can do about the vow of chastity

>>23016811
Fucking this.

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Silly girl, I spent so long perfecting a world to make you happy. Why couldn't you just have waited? No matter, It's almost ready...

>>23016759

>>23016703
>the blackguard terrorizing the western provinces is your former teenage sweetheart
>turned to a life of evil after being abandoned by me, who even went so far as to take a vow of chastity.
>What do you do, noble paladin?
What do I do?
WHAT DO I DO?
>Lawful
>Hot
>Dickings

Damn straight, I fuck the crazy right out of her eyes. I created this evil, I will end it. In the least celibate way possible. >>23016786 knows what I'm talking about.

Smite evil. This shouldn't even be a question.

>>23016805
>Stoneskin

But... the skin IS her armor!

>>23016908

Screw you, goddamn OP piece of shit.

You can't go taking Shotaro's fucking love of Fuuto as a power source, that's just wrong as hell.

I would tell her that I had realized how wrong I was to leave her, and that I would gladly accept her hand in marriage once she has proven her devotion to me. Then I point her towards the nearest unfriendly kingdom and go on my way.

If she's half as yandere as she seems to be, she'll never think she's done enough to prove herself, and will continue to slay my enemies for decades or until she is slain in battle.

>>23016772
shit, you can't guess? bitch is psycho.

>>23017062
That's no reason to leave her. I dated a paranoid schizophrenic for years and it was fun as hell.

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>>23017017
Wait, what? I have no idea what your talking about. Not am I the OP.

I'm just one of those black-and-grey morality fags.

>>23016703
see if I cant first snap her out of it, have her turn herself in hoping she will just get life in a dungeon. Then visit her everyday that I can and see if I can start over with her, there was once a flame between us, I want to rekindle it.

Remember I don't have former childhood sweethearts because I was raised by misanthropic jungle ferns.

Rolled 13

>>23016908
imma have to roll that bluff check.

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>>23017148
We didn't agree on that backstory.

>>23017051
But that's an evil solution. Maybe neutral at best.

Hardly befitting a paladin.

>>23017168
I have AIDS.

>>23016703
There seems to be a huge misunderstanding. I took a vow of ABSTINENCE. That means I can't drink booze, get high, that kind of thing. I can still fuck and get married.

How's this. I'll offer you an Atonement, you join my holy order and work to undo the harm you've done, and we can start dating again?

>>23017004

The blade he spoke of was not his sword.

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>>23016703
Challenge her to single combat.
For her honor.
Or mine.

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>>23017238

>>23017238
Nor was the gap he spoke of one of plate.

>>23016703
>Gonna go with 4th edition rules here, because Neutral Good paladins, fuck yeah. As a brief overview, the way my group always runs it is that paladins in 4th can still fall if they stray from their code, but can by any of the (old) alignments.

Apologise.

Seriously, if I caused this, I have to own up to it. And besides, look at how she used to be-! I couldn't stand being the reason that smile died.

>ahem...
I stand, face-to-face with the blackguard, the woman who has caused so much destruction, so much pain and suffering. All I have to do is raise my sword and strike her down. Despite her power, I can tell she lacked the experience or training to best me. I am confident that I could slay her, but...
I drop to my knees in the dust before her, my sword falling from my hand and ringing on the flagstones of the burning city. "I am so sorry for all this. I did my utmost to try and make this world a place you could smile and be happy in. That's why I joined the order; for love of you and of every other soul who has ever been spat upon by fate and forced to live in misery. Seeing you smile when I was around was the greatest gift I have ever beheld. I had hoped that, by leaving like I did, I could lessen the pain of a drawn-out goodbye, that I could move on and hope to make the world better, for your sake... I was foolish, I know, blinded by youth and a lack of experience. Now I know better, I can only tell you how immeasurably sorry I am." I look up at her, seeing the rage and the hurt and the pain in her dark, tear-filled eyes. That's not the look of one willing to forgive. I can't blame her, not after what I did. I hang my head, looking down at her shadow, cast by the flickering flames. "I won't fight you, Helga... I can't fight the girl I knew as Harriet, back in the golden fields. I couldn't ever hurt you."

I see the shadow of her sword rise above her head, hear her choke back a sob of rage as she gathers her strength... This is how it has to be then.

>>23017288
See, this is why Harem Knights faggots shouldnt be allowed into the world. Everything is retardedly overwrought with them and plays out like a bad anime.

>>23017238
Dammit Freud, sometimes a sword is just a sword.

Kill her, obviously.
"Oh gee whiz, I guess we're kind of responsible for bin Laden in the first place! I guess we can't occupy 2 countries for a decade now" - a retard

>>23017324
Oh god, this was all a metaphor for US foreign policy?

>>23017288
The blade sweeps down... And mine sweeps up. With reflexes born of training, I grasp the hilt and bring my guard up, the blades colliding with a clash and a shock of divine and fell energies meeting one another! "That does not mean though," I say quietly, as I stand, "That I will simply die. Come on, Harriet. Vent your fury on me. Rid yourself of the poison within you by burning it out." I raise my guard and smile sadly, my heart filled with pity. "If I must die here, then so be it as the gods will. But until that moment, I will take your fury and your pain, however long it takes for you to find absolution through battle." My smile becomes more genuine, as I feel the purpose of the order and the gods fill me, empowering me, "Because... I still love you, Harriet."

>>23017288
retarded. letting yourself die, so the villain can keep killing, so she might feel guilty later?

Holy fuck. Worst Paladin ever. Imagine all the innocents that will be killed. She made a choice.. AND IT WAS TO MURDER IN THE WORSHIP OF AN EVIL GOD.

Kill her, kill her followers, killer her family, and kill the town you came from. Lord only knows, maybe you pissed off the baker's kid who will become a necromancer.

>>23017314
Hmm... Probably should have left my name out, I suppose. Ah well. Too late now.

Sorry if it seemed over-done. I'm still trying to work out how to paladin properly. Guess I'll have to keep trying!

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>>23017366
I can forgive her in the eyes of my gods if she surrenders and submits.
I cannot allow her to escape justice though.

Comede ferro meretrix

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>>23017378
YOU NEVER APPRECIATED MY MACAROONS!

Challenge her.

1.The winner may do whatever they want with the loser.
2.You must do whatever it takes to win.
3.You must go through the punishment no matter what.

Can we out-yan the yandere?

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>>23017420

>>23017378
>>23017420

Idea for a campaign: Party's paladin pissed off so many people in his hometown before joining the holy order to set himself straight that the majority of them have turned to a life of evil and have turned into a corps of supervillains.
Like Scott Pilgrim, but with high fantasy!

>>23017388
>I'm still trying to work out how to paladin properly
Try not being a weak willed faggot who lets everyone step all over him because his bitch ass is afraid of falling.

Give her the finger then shank her when she ain't lookin.

I smite her with my cock

>>23017388
If you want to work on writing, reflexes don't get born of training. They might be honed, or developed, or something. That's like, "it grew smaller". Training is taking something and working to make it better. Born is... a gift from whatever.

>>23016759
she's obviously unstable. but you could redeem her, get free of that nasty vow of chastity, and since you'd just be an ham going for an awesome adventure, convert with her to the worship of Thor or some other god of awesome.

>>23017417
Well yeah. Even if she DOES atone and seek forgiveness, it still must be earned, but what's important is that she be given that chance and that a chance to be happy and at peace again. Few indeed are the souls beyond all redemption, particularly when their actions are as a result of pain or sorrow. Life should not be wasted in darkness and sorrow, when it can be used to create and spent in happiness and light!

Then again, some evildoers are such unrepentant monsters that they SHOULD be killed, for the good of all. Neutral Good isn't Neutral Nice after all, nor is it Stupid Good...

>>23017378
Field length screwed me over. I did continue that.

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>>23017473
I'd play that. I could be like my wakfu villains and murder everyone because I'm going to make everything happy and right in the end.

>>23017528
Good advice. Thanks. Yeah, I whipped that up on the spot. Under normal circumstances, I'd proof-read it once or twice and chance things like that. Thanks for spotting it though.

This is dnd, being a paladin isn't hard.

Detect Evil. Is she evil?
>Yes
Smite
>No
Redeem

And no, you can't weasel out of "But she was only doing it because blah blah blah", she's either evil or she isn't.

I smite her of course.
I am a paladin not some weak willed cur.

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>>23017578
I smell lawful stupid.

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>>23016703

>>23017528
>born
Well, yeah. The real criticism here is that guy used the phrase "borne out of" or "borne of" incorrectly. Which is a perfectly legitimate phrase, coming from "to bear",
Which is used to say that something came as a direct result of another thing. "The reflexes borne of training" is the same as talking about "The bloodloss borne out of self-flagellation"

>>23017542
She must stand for her crimes of TERRORISM and possibly GENOCIDE.
The penalty in this modern, fair and just world is DEATH BY ANYTHING CONVENIENT.
The penalty in a world of feudal anarchy that the medieval world was is DEATH BY HORRIBLE HORRIBLE THINGS. ESPECIALLY FOR PRETTY FEMALES. There is a reason that both Cleopatra and Boudicca took poison rather than be captured by enemy soldiers

To not expect the King to kill her is the reason that you can't cast any spells even though you are level 15.

>>23017597

If she was born on the material plane, then she has an alignment and it can be discerned.

If her alignment can't be discerned, she's a filthy alien planar creature and should be purged anyway.

They actually bought the I joined the Order Lie. Holy shit I just wanted to leave the village.

>>23017690
I'm detecting evil on this one...

>>23017690
Everyone deserves a second chance. If they refuse it or squander it, THEN you can proceed with the smiting.

You're just an asshole abusing his power.

>>23017471
Alright, gonna need some context.

>>23016703

Kill her, cleanse the world of the blight, and move on.

Vows are vows, service is service, and bitches ain't shit.

And on this day of my enlistment
I shed my skin of will and innocence
I pledge allegiance and devotion
I’ll be the power that you flex

I am your arm of execution
I am the trigger of your gun
I am the binding and the order
My duty to you has begun

And on the day we come it’s over
And you will have your fate laid out and spun, it’s execution
And you may pray if you get comfort
It’s on that day your duty’s done

>>23017685
Rebellion against the throne, check. Banditry, check. Pillaging and murder, check...

Not genocide though, by all accounts. Terrorism, you could argue that, sure.

And as I mentioned; neutral good. Helga Stoneskin will be defeated and vanish from the world, her army slain or scattered. Harriet, on the other hand, is a no-body, by the standards of the kingdom, just another soul on the path to redemption and working for the cause of good, if the gods content to smile upon her.

You have your code and interpretation of a paladin, I have mine. Pure good and pure law can conflict and when it does, I chose good over law, every time. I don't know any reasonable GM who would rule that such an action would cause a paladin to fall, though they may perhaps have to show their dedication and faith anew, or risk the gods' wrath.

>>23017744

Get that moralistic shit out of here. This is dnd.

In order to become a blackguard you need to make a contract with an evil being. If she's evil and she made a contact with an evil outsider, she can't change alignment no more.

Done and done. Problem solved.

>>23017721

>because you knocked her up
>but she could fuck like a tiger
>not give a shit
>get drunk
>best paladin

>>23017765

Black Ops commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pblj3JHF-Jo

>>23017744
THIS, so VERY much this. A second chance is always there. Abuse, refuse or squander the offer and THEN you smite what is irredeemably evil. Slips on the road are forgiveable, most (not all, but most) of the time, so long as the desire to become a better person is genuine.

>>23017827
>In order to become a blackguard you need to make a contract with an evil being. If she's evil and she made a contact with an evil outsider, she can't change alignment no more.

Rules for 3.5 Blackguards say the prospective Blackguard must make peaceful contact with an evil outside. No mention of contracts, no mention of being unable to change alignment afterwards.

You're so full of shit you're talking mushrooms.

>>23016703
But I don't want to be a Paladin. And why the fuck would I leave her if I loved her? I'm not a fucking dick. No honor or knowledge of a what a fair fight is but not a dick,

>>23017874
Where was Hitler's second chance?

ANd he didn't even have devil to make a deal with, or a baby to kill to sanctify it.

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>>23017744
She can get her second chance IN HELL

>>23017904
>Paladins and Bards account for a good portion of single parent homes
>Rogues and Wizards are surprisingly stable, if not for the child's sanity, their home and happiness .

>>23017907
Real world without concrete morality != fantasy world where good and evil are universal forces.

>>23017898

Take a moment to think about how you would gain blackguard powers that involve making contact with an evil outsider.

Spoiler: Demons aren't known for giving away power.

>>23017907
Like I said, MOST of the time. Those kind of monstrous atrocities taken 'for the greater good' aren't the actions of someone redeemable. They're the actions of an extremist who believes that the suffering of millions is justifiable for some reason or another.

By no argument is that good. Sometimes, suffering is inevitable, but every measure should be taken to LESSEN it, never to increase it! Anyone who sanctions such an action wilfully and compounds it with yet FURTHER atrocities, is beyond hope.

>>23017942
It says EVIL OUTSIDER. Devils do deals. A Demon or Daemon would give you the power just to watch you wreak havoc with it.

the paladin's i usually play are not technically the traditional "I AM THE LAW!" or "religious zelots in platemail" sort so i usually go for the best option to get the job done with the best possible outcome. i would try to just sit down with her and try to talk it out with her. with combat being a last resort.

because any conflict i can end with little to no bloodshed is the best possible outcome

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>>23017941

seriously... just ask the anime guy, Stalin was going to Berlin to get in a sword fight with him. And understand his rage. And let him vent. Then forgive him. Because he loved Hitler.

follow your dreeeeeeeeeeams
>seriously, kill the bitch.

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>>23017942

Peaceful doesn't mean a contract, just a nice discussion of the benefits of Team Evil.

Jesus as a Blackguard is a funny idea.

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I smite evil.

It's a cruel fate that she should die by my hand, but her path is one she chose.

>>23017907
He committed suicide, kinda hard to give him a second chance. Also, He had his second chance after his first failed revolution anyway.

>>23017907
>Where was Hitler's second chance?
When he fled to South America and lived out the rest of his days as a kindly eccentric German millionaire.

>>23017986
Another guy who gets it.

>>23017994
See >>23017968 I don't think I need to repeat myself.

>>23017942
You have to have made friendly contact with an evil outsider. Absolutely nothing implies the blackguard owes them shit, or indeed that this contact has to happen at ANYWHERE REMOTELY near the time he becomes a blackguard. You can have chatted up a succubus when you were 10, and only become a blackguard when you were 50, for instance. You don't even have to have been aware you were making the contact.

>not a single post about using Holy Aura on your dick as a condom and fucking her until her vagina disentegrates all around your glorious, righteous cock


Fucking casuals

>>23017994
>Stalin and Hitler in a swordfight for REDEMPTION and love between bros with magic powers and shit

See, but this ridiculous fantasy world is better.

>>23018046
What exactly IS a blackguard anyway? I mean, the easy way is to say, "The servant of an evil god or powerful evil outsider," the same way a paladin is a servant of a good god. But what is the underlying drive and purpose of a blackguard?

A paladin's code is, in broad strokes, easy: Defend the weak, uphold good and the law, help the needy, smite evil, etc. etc. though the fine details vary a lot (and it's there that so many arguments arise about a given paladin's actions being sufficient to make them fall).

But what is the broad code of the blackguard? The exact opposite? A lot of the time, that seems counter-productive. Just what is it that blackguards are fighting for, besides, "lul evil?"

>>23018176

Its basically the opposite of Paladin and you have to be Chaotic Evil

>>23018220
So what's the difference between a Blackguard and a Paladin of Slaughter?

>>23018220
Wasn't it Any Evil in 3.5? Pathfinder's Anti-Paladin was CE only so far as I'm aware.

>>23018176

I think that's dependent on the god they serve. Vecna hordes secrets, Asmodeus (LE) would want to establish some evil autocracy, a CE god might want the paladin to go about making a ruckus because it titillates.

I think that's the core. Paladins serve the will of their god, whatever that will might be.

>>23018220
BOY! That's a helpful response. Also, blackguards can't exist outside of alignment systems, apparently.

>>23018220
I was under the impression there were lawful evil blackguards too though? And besides, what drives people to do something like that? Chaotic Evil like that just seems to be mindless slaughter and destruction, lashing out at anything and everything with no rhyme or reason. Pure chaos I could understand (haha), or pure, self-interested evil; selfishness is easy to comprehend...

But what drives that kind of systematic evil, for evil's sake? Are blackguards evil just for the sake of evil? Why? There's a point where any possible benefits are just outweighed! I'm sorry; it's just incomprehensible to me!

I actually really would appreciate a proper answer. I feel like not understanding this is holding my writing back... I don't want to write a bad villain; that can ruin an entire story!

>>23018176
More often than not they're disillusioned Paladins who're fighting to destroy everything they once fought for on account of some unbearable trauma (see: Aribeth from NWN).

The rest of the time, they're really just out to watch the world burn.

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I met a contracts devil once when I went with a trade caravan to a city in the west, they had all outsiders sign a contract to keep the peace while in the city else the devils would come get you.

>>23018314
Reference the concept of 'crab mentality'.

In areas where crabs are a fishing commodity, it's generally accepted that you only need a lid for the first crab. Once you have more than one crab in a bucket, they'll start dragging each other down if any of them begin to climb out.

Chaotic Evil is pure, absolute spite. It's not just selfishness, it's selfishness that insists that any attempt to disguise one's selfishness is disingenuous, that law and order are obstructive to one's personal pleasure, that society is an obstacle, not a goal.

>>23018258
A Paladin of Slaughter will presumably keep to a very strict Code of Slaughter, possibly choosing only one type of target to go after.

Think Jack the Ripper.

>>23018297
>>23018331
Isn't it possible for paladins and blackguards to obtain their powers through other means than worship however? I remember in 3.5, you could make a paladin dedicated to the principles of good and law and still obtain the powers, without having to worship a god.

And yeah, I get lashing out in revenge. It's really the 'evil for the sake of evil' ones I really don't get... Is it just so simple as they get their rocks off watching people suffer and grow helpless and despairing of any hope? I just can't wrap my head around that. I know not EVERY villain needs a deep and subtle motivation, but this is just something that really gets under my skin!

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>>23018367
>devil contracts

this thread is now about making deals with the devil.

How do you do it, and make it not tacky?
I had a devil who needed the players help. He didn't screw them over. He rewarded them. They didn't figure out who/what he was, until he regained his powers after their help. He thanked them, gifted them, then left.

is this a "Vow" vow? Like you loose abilities if you break it?

So, teej. I want to play a blackguard, but honestly don't want the summon evil ally component. Instead, I want the backstory to be mainly making the deal for large amounts of personal power, rather than relying on calling up dudes.

What would be a good substitution?

>>23018410
Dude, I have known people like that. Fuck, man, look around. You're on 4chan for cripe's sakes. There are people like that all up in this joint. Maybe they don't actually go out and rip people's finger nails out for yuks, but I bet you more than one sick fuck somwehere on this website could see the appeal of doing so.

As motivations go it's not terribly original, and yes it is somewhat lazy to have a villain who's evil because it's fun to them. But let it never be said that it doesn't have a basis in reality.

>>23018176
Blackguards DON'T have a code of conduct. A fallen paladin is not going to want to trade one code for an even more oppressive one.

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>>23018463
well... i run this. Haven't in a while though.

He isn't in it for summoning evil. He does it, because he is a control freak. Sort of a bully's thing. Cheap? Maybe. However its a means to an end. And the means corrupts him. But that's only where his adventure begins!

>>23018478
More Lawful Evil, but:
"They, "society," hate you because they don't want your help. You remind them of how weak-willed and sheep-like and unspecial they are. How gleeful they are, deep down, to be ordinary. They don't want heroes. They don't want special people around them. Because if there are special people and they aren't one of them— well, who wants that? Who wants a constant reminder that they aren't even trying to be special? See, the difference between you and I is that you really are just a child. You benefit from the wide-eyed optimism of youth. I do envy that, somewhat. But... like many of your decisions in life... it's just naive. And I don't envy that harsh cold slap of reality that will come your way soon enough. But I guess it's inevitable. People don't want to be special. I do think that. It is my philosophy. They— people want to be told what to do and how to live and they want men like me to tell them. They want to go to work and do as little as they can possibly get away with, and they want a big cookie at the end of the day for doing it. And they want men like me to give it to them."

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>>23018410
For fucks sake, go look up Benito Mussolini. If a real life person can be that much of a fucking BBEG just for the sake of being a BBEG, then so can someone in your shitty little fantasy setting.

Or fuck, go look at Kim Jong Il.

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>>23018367
>friendly contact

>>23018410
Check out the 4e blackguard. They have great characterization and tap into vices (particularly; fury or domination) and are fleshed out way better than "Evil, because evil."

>>23018510
Seriously, I know war in general have inevitable atrocities conducted by both sides, but WWII was the closest thing we'll ever have to a clear, cut-and-dry good guys vs. bad guys scenario. Everyone on the Axis was so cartoonishly evil if it didn't really happen, nobody would believe it for a minute.

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>>23018420
With the power of 'Reasonable Evil'.
"Please understand, I came here because I understood you needed a benefactor. I myself am in need of trustworthy associates and, assuming you prove yourself within this grace period I might have a position open for a lieutenant once you've passed from your current life. There are worse ways to spend the afterlife than working off accumulated debts I assure you."

>>23018547
Its hard for me to see it as a clear cut case of good vs evil when the good guys kills killed more innocents than the badguys, dropped the nuclear bomb on innocent townsfolk, etc. etc.

>>23018547
What about Hirohito?

Hirohito wasn't that evil. He was largely pressured into the war by his nation's military commanders. He was quick to surrender when it became clear his nation would only suffer for the war and that the hawkish members of his cabinet were driving his country to extinction.

...Of course, they were probably Lawful Evil.

>>23018547
Because Reality is a simulation bro.

>>23018596
If Hirohito was in charge of his country, maybe I'd care.

>>23018590
>THE CLOSEST THING WE'LL EVER HAVE
Learn to fucking read.

>>23018590
>dropped the nuclear bomb on innocent townsfolk

Not saying the atom bombs were a "good thing", but dropped the nuclear bomb as opposed to what? A land invasion that would have cost even more lives and sent Japan back to the stone age?

>>23018590
>The good guys killed more innocents than the bad guys

...Do you hate Jews, or are you taking Stalin's post-war purges into account?

Because unless it's one of those two things you are full of the biggest shit.

>>23018626
Lets not forget that if the US hadn't done that, Russia would have claimed Japan for themselves.

>>23018596
Hirohito wasn't really in charge. You're thinking of Tojo. As far as the Japanese go, they were probably the least "cartoonish" in their evilness out of the bunch, but they did commit a fuckton of warcrimes.

>>23016703
I roll to seduce

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>>23018641
>Soviet Japan

Brb, Vicky 2.

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>>23018547
It even had the ridiculous sci-fi plot device weapon that ends the war and a Black Sheep of the Good Guys who becomes the villain of the second season.

Seriously, WWII had everything.

>>23018628
why do people only mention the jews? 11million people died in the camps. Why do we only mention part of them? it was a crime against all humanity. Fucking guilt privilege.

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"What, that's it? All it took for you to renounce your morals and pillage the countryside was for your boyfriend to leave you? You didn't have the strength of character to grow up and deal with your rejection like an adult, so instead you decided to take the coward's way out?

You would have made a terrible wife anyway. Unfortunately for you, you won't be living long enough to find out. Time to pay for your crimes."

>>23018420
>>23018579
Not DnD, but my character in Shadowrun recently found out that incubi aren't all that bad. Turns out that what she'd thought of as a 'sex demon' is more a 'pleasure demon'. Her domain is as much a good drink with friends or curling up with a fine novel as it is sex (though she's good at sex, oh yes she is) and for a price, she's willing to help with absolutely anything.

My character's using her as a tutor for magic right now, because she doesn't know any other mages except for the party's, who s even MORE insane. There's absolutely zero way this cam come and bite me in the ass.

>>23018703
>incubi
>she
Either you have your terms mixed up or I need to check my privilege.

>>23018547
Keep this in mind. You know how we love to pair Nazis up with the occult/supernatural, like in Indiana Jones and Wolfenstein? That actually has a basis in history. The Nazis actually DID have a division for researching the paranormal. That's right, the Nazis were actually looking for a way to weaponize magic.

>>23018590
The bad guys where the ones aggressors that had had the death camps and skull emblems. The Nazi's were evil as shit and they just totally rolled with it.

>>23018712
There's shapeshifting involved. My character's straight, and had hoped that would help protect her from the Succubus' charms. She opens the door, and WHOOPS he decided to be a guy today. Threw my character right off her mental track.

>>23018723
So were the allies.

Fuck, there were plans to weaponize bats and homosexuality up in there.

>>23018626
This. A land war on the Japanese mainland would've made the first world war look like afternoon tea in a country manor. The Japanese populace of the age were willing and able to fight to the last. We're talking fatalities in the millions, and Japan would have been utterly ruined in the process whether the US won or lost.

That said, while I believe it was the right call, I sometimes question whether the ethically viable justifications were the main motivator. I mean, this is the country that brought us the Flying Crowbar a scant two decades later.

>>23018773
So a little of Column A, a little of Column B, with some magic to smooth it all over.

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>>23018700
>boyfriend
I got a girl vibe from the OP though.

>>23018687
The Jews are the largest and loudest portion of those people though.

But yes, Hitler was also a dick to homosexuals, his political opponents, and people with funny mustaches. Hitler is a terrible person.

>>23018798
Be honest. You just have a fetish for women.

>>23018590
>Moral relativity, America nuked Japan

I hate the fact that we didn't guilt japan into submission and uncover all of their skeletons. It allows shit like this to exist.

Japan took over four million indonesians civilians and forced them into such brutal slavery that over 80% of them died, and all this shit gets is a small blurb on wikipedia. They killed 22 million chinese civilians, and no one even cares.

And these days people remember the nazis were evil when the japanese killed even more.

>>23018810
Or for women fucking morals into other woman with their lawful good fist of justice.

>Arson
>Rape
>Theft
>Attempted Murder
>Murder

>Negotiations are over. The sentence is death.

>>23018798

I didn't. I just want to play a lawful asshole guy.

>>23018703
>>23018773
So has Spider started getting pissed at your shaman for his complicity yet, or has broing it up with Shadow spirits still not bitten your group in the ass?

>>23018812
Just because a country's leaders are evil does not mean its citizens are.

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>>23018830
>But Helga-chan, I have to get ALL the corruption out you~! Starting with these dirty holes!

>>23018876
Spider is our Mage's mentor spirit, actually, and warned me away from the succubus. I've yet to see a reason to listen to it. Like I said, I know this'll bite me in the ass, and I'm hoping it'll be a fun adventure when it does.

>>23018884
Nobody's saying they are. But if the Allies sat on their hands because "Think of the civilians!", we'd probably be speaking German right now.

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>>23016946
>In the lest celibate way possible

>>23018924
That's such a cliche that it doesn't even approach being an argument.

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>>23016703

>>23018884
>ecause a country's leaders are evil does not mean its citizens a

in a democracy, it means most of them were.
>germany

>>23018884

A country is controlled by it's citizens. In total war, you have to break a country's will to fight.

Realistically, we saved lives by forcing a surrender. The longer the war went on, the more civilians would have died. And Japan was killing a couple hundred thousand a month.

>>23018947
By all means, tell us how the Allies could have subdued the Axis without invading.

>>23018654
For all of that, when Hirohito went to his cabinet in tears and outright ordered them to surrender, they did.

>>23018912
Ah, got my traditions mixed up. You guys keep coming up in Shadowrun conversations lately (so far I think I've seen posts from you, the mage, and a third member). I do hope we'll get to hear the details when it all inevitably goes tits-up.

>>23018884
Those citizens would have probably been compelled to kill themselves or forced to fight had a land invasion been initiated. Not saying it makes it right, but in the end the effect is the same.

>>23016703
Not everyone takes it all that well when they find out their boyfriend would rather live in a world of "battle brothers" forbidden to all women...

>>23018966
>so far I think I've seen posts from you, the mage, and a third member
Did you, now. Care to find them?

>>23018957
I never said that it was the wrong decision to drop the bombs. I'm just saying that the argument "the japanese were evil" is not the correct one.

>>23019029
>when the good guys kills killed more innocents than the badguys

I never said they were evil, I was merely correcting your misinformation.

>>23019029
When we're saying "the Japanese were evil", we're talking about their military policies. Nobody was saying "the Italian citizens were evil" either, but remember this: >>23018510

The only correct answer is to RIGHTEOUS RAGE and spank her until she says shes sorry for hurting the innocent, aka Ozzmar mode

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>>23018703
I like using contract devils to explain populations of 'evil' beings within 'cultured' societies. I think my players have some kind of adventuring based fetish for trading all their shit with the shiftiest goblin merchant they can find.

Drider nursemaids, Gnoll caravans, That sort of thing. Plus what's more fun that having centaurs in the town guard?

>>23018984
Fucked if I remember where they were, dude. It's been pretty scattered, just sort of coming up whenever Shadowrun comes up (like it's doing now). Might be some in random archived threads, but that's a deep dig.

Though I do remember one specific post where somebody (I think the mage?) mentioned that several members of the group now have the, "Addiction (Succubus)," quality. Mostly remember that because it made me laugh for a solid minute.

>>23016703
>take a vow of celibacy

what a shitty paladin

>>23018687
Jews weren't the only targets, but they were the plurality if not the majority. So yeah, Hitler also murdered gays and cripples and blacks and some prisoners of war, but only the Roma/Gypsies had it anywhere near as bad as the Jews.

>>23018948
>100 posts later

Damn it /tg/.

>>23016703
"I WAS DOING THIS.....FOR YOU... YOU STUPID NEANDERTHAL"
then proceed to fuck her hard, take care of her and our kids, grow old together then tell this story to our numerous grandchildren.
"You know your grandmother was quite the troublemaker back in the day. She used to commit genocide like it was eating biscuits after tea."

>>23019123
>several members of the group now have the, "Addiction (Succubus)," quality
Oh, yeah, that happened. I've hardly even noticed it, IC. That's what happens when you let a succubus into your head. She leaves a little of herself behind.

Turn her back to good with vigorous non penetrative sex

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>>23019137

>>23019136
>Roma/Gypsies had it anywhere near as bad as the Jews.
Due to population density.
Jews were also the most numerous in Germany. If Africans had the same presence then as they did now, the situation would have been fairly different, and likely fairly less brought up, because there is no money in Africans to be had.

>>23019189
>If Africans had the same presence then as they did now, the situation would have been fairly different,

Actually, there were African soldiers in the Waffen SS.

So, it's "Helga", now, is it? Damn shame. I think "Sally" fit you better.
Yes, Sally, it's me under this armor. It's Matthew. I am sorry. I am truly sorry for the pain I caused you. I don't understand your motivations, and I won't insult you by pretending to know all the reasons why you chose the path you did.
I will say this: Leaving you was the hardest thing I've ever done. Killing you will be harder. Frankly, I don't want to do it. So for the sake of the love we once shared, and the love that I still have for you, I'll give you one chance. Stand down, disband your army and surrender. Your past actions demand reparation, but as a master of my order I have the authority to determine the nature of your penance.

If you will not accept these terms...Then I guess I had better return this good-luck charm that you made for me all those years ago.

>>23019162
Ok I have to ask at this point, what's the deal with /tg/ and Descartes? I see it all the time, but I don't know what it's supposed to mean.

>>23019071
Ozzmar?

>>23019228
There's a picture going around of a guy using Descartes as an avatar commenting on porn videos. One of his quotes is very closely associated with that image.

When people post Descartes, it means "Give her the dick"

>>23019228
Some dude went around to various porn websites, I think following the trail of one particular actor, and left hilariously stupid comments. The most popular of these was the simple, "Give her the dick." His avatar in all cases was a picture of Rene Descartes.

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>>23019228
You're welcome.

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>>23019316
I can't believe I haven't seen this yet.

>>23019189
Yes, but they weren't, see?
Consider that there are a lot of blacks in America who talk about reparations for slavery. Consider that Liberia was basically created for American blacks in the same way that Israel was created for European Jews. Had Hitler killed 6 million black people, black people would still be making a stink over it today.

>>23019429
If the Palestinians had a General Butt Naked they'd have won the war.

>>23018812
Funny that you describe nuking innocents = evil to be "moral relativity."

My idea of a war that's "unambiguous good vs evil" is one in which, you know, we're intervening to save people, not kill innocents until the enemy gives up.

>>23019429
"And I would have gotten away with it if it hadn't of been for those darn kids!"

WW2 morality was black and gray, this argument is silly

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/tg/. We get shit done. Even if it's not the shit we started out with.

>>23019477
No, they wouldn't have, because they'd still be Arabs, and arabs have significant cultural obstacles to waging effective war in the post-napoleonic era.

>>23019429
>Had Hitler killed 6 million black people, black people would still be making a stink over it today
Except no one would care.
You wouldn't have yearly reminders of it, nor movies made of it, nor would governments have special interests groups with the ear of their members have considerable influence on their politics.

>>23019490
>"unambiguous good vs evil"

Nobody made the claim it was unambiguous good vs evil. Not even this guy >>23018547. In fact, he specifically said atrocities were inevitable on both sides. It wasn't good vs. evil because the good guys were such paragons of morality (although in the European front, they were seen as liberators), but because the guys they were fighting were so outrageously evil.

And once again, we've been over this- the innocent Japanese civilians were boned either way. The US was forced into a shitty decision of "use the nukes and kill a bunch of civilians" vs. "invade by land, kill even more civilians, lose a ton of troops, in wipe out most of the economic progress Japan made since the Meiji Restoration."

Which would you have chosen?

>>23019535
>using that cap and not the one where we were discussing WWII morality

>>23019535
You should wait til the WWII argument heats up more, then retake it.

>>23019580
To be fair, on the Allies' side some questioned the carpet bombings on civilian targets, as they didn't seem to work that much, despite killing a lot of people (and putting lots of personnel and material at risk), but they still rolled with it until the war was over.

>>23019614
so basically, hitler got a bad rap. In the lens of a million years of human history, he did the biological evolutionary sound thing.

Oh well. relativism.

>>23019565
it barely even matters who you kill, just how stupidly it's done. they did it in the middle of europe in everyone's faces while also going to war against the world. there's no way to ignore that and the jews just happened to be the ones they thought were important.

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>>23019687
>he did the biological evolutionary sound thing.

You wouldn't happen to be a creationist, would you?

>>23019687
What, you're saying he was trying to get rid of competitors? Please, if he was doing the evolutionarily sound thing he would have been fucking someone outside of his gene pool. Genetic diversity (something he hardly wanted with a "pure Aryan race") is the one of the best ways to ensure the survival of one's young.

>>23019712
lol. Valid point. No. I meant to say evolutionary psychology. big difference.

>>23019598
>implying I have any control over how shitty my internet connection is

>>23017167
failed on a DC of 15 unless you have at least a +2 bonus you forgot to add.

>>23019738
You can just call it eugenics.

>>23019768
evolutionary psychology isn't eugenics. go to college.

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>>23019614

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>>23019780
/thread

>>23019940
Theeeeere we go.

>>23019580
>Which would you have chosen?

We could have not put Germany into the situation where Hitler was a good choice, we could have taken the jews off their hands as nobody else was interested in taking them, we could have intervened for actual moral reasons instead of "we were attacked," and so forth and so on.

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>>23020016
Ok, two things. First, we didn't nuke Germany. Second, if you used that as an actual "decision" on what to do about Japan, you would've gotten laughed out of the war room.

>>23016747
Good guy following a villain out of love is better romance.

If the villain is a woman then it's also my fetish

>>23016747
I prefer villains who are lovers first and villains second and never had to go through any of that melodramatic nonsense in the op in order to get together.

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Would he count as a blackguard, given the reasons why he was given his powers?

>>23019565
Um, no? Consider the influence black people have, at least in America. If you honest-to-God think blacks have no influence, you should try turning on a radio. Practically all modern music and dance has roots in black culture. And considering how loud people like Jesse Jackson are about a century-and-a-half after the end of slavery in the US, I'm pretty sure he and his ilk would be a damn sight louder had blacks been the Nazi's primary targets.

>>23020060
Uh, wasn't talking about nuking Germany. I'm pointing out that if it was really a fantasyland war of good vs evil, we could have intervened quite awhile before things got to that point.

>>23020362
Hindsight is useless when the matter is already at hand. I asked "What would you have done if given the decision to drop the bomb or invade Japan?", you sidestepped it with "I would've gone back in time."

>>23017578
>Not redeeming evil persons.
Scrub. The only time I played a paladin in 3.5 I made some progress in the redemption of an evil spirit through the power of booze And what might have been questionable actions in the eyes of my Aasimar girlfriend involving massages and teasing.

The campaign was kinda light-hearted. Still, one of the best characters I've played

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>>23020297
....Interesting question. Probably not, since he doesn't draw power from Louis Cyphre. He did get the half-demon template though.

>Decided to do some writefaggin'.

1/4 (?)

She was so beautiful.

Her black eyes like twin coals, warm whenever she saw him, hard whenever he had done something stupid to try to impress her—now they stared at him with burning hatred. Twisted in fury was her heart-shaped face, with her pert little nose that scrunched up so adorably whenever she laughed, and her full, cherry lips that he still couldn’t forget the taste of. Her long, lustrous hair, still bound by that jeweled hairband he had saved up six months of his pay at the merchant’s shop to get for her, floated and swirled about her like a malevolent phantom as their blades clashed again and again in showers of sparks and crashing thunderclaps from the struggle between his holy fire and her demonic aura.

He was clad in the full armor of his Order, gleaming steel plate and burnished mail, with his emblazoned shield strapped to his left arm and his sword clenched in his right fist. She wore little covering beyond the spiked, segmented chitin that had enveloped her arms and legs; her sword was a dull, black thing of nightmare with screaming faces reflected in its every swing.

The paladin had faithfully served his Order and his God through five grim years of adventuring, seeming eons of monotony punctuated by flashes of mortal danger. He had slain many an evildoer in that time, including foul lich sorcerers, bloodthirsty vampires, and power-hungry tyrants. And blackguards.

Like her. Like Hel—no, Heather. Heather. That was her name.

He prayed to the Gods of Good to aid him, because he blanched at the thought of having to kill the first and only woman he had ever loved. He was caught between two impossibilities—to betray his vows and let her go, or to fulfill his duty and simultaneously lose her and rip his heart in two pieces.

He could not. But he had to.

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>>23020764

2/4 (?)

He had to harden himself and carry out justice—he had to win, he had to, or else the next paladin would simply execute her without mercy. He knew her, he knew her motivations for becoming a blackguard, and he could…

How was that fair, his conscience asked him. He had struck down many villains over the course of his career. Perhaps they had had loved ones, who he left to sob and grieve over the corpses. Why should Heather deserve any less from him? Why should he deserve any mercy from himself? He should be forced to endure the agony, to teach him the folly of leaving someone behind.

He could not. But he had to.

Her blade crashed down on his shield, her arm visibly straining in vain to force it aside. He could counterattack now, impaling her through her exposed abdomen or slashing up across her chest. She had been exhausted by her furious attacks from earlier, whereas his training had allowed him to conserve his energy. She wouldn’t be able to evade.

He could do it now. But he could not.

Instead he waited until she gave up her efforts and leaped back. Her breathing was rough and uneven, and her entire body trembled uncontrollably from her exertions. She could barely keep hold of her sword.

“Heather,” he said softly, “Can we talk?”

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>>23020785
>He had to harden himself

>>23020832

Walked into that, didn't I.

>>23020764
>>23020832
Do continue, I am enjoying your writefaggin.

>>23020785

3/4 (?) => 3/5

She didn’t answer.

“Heather?” He lowered his shield. “Do you remember me?”

She shot him that achingly familiar “you moron” look. He had introduced himself at the beginning of their duel.

“Say something,” he said. “I just want to hear your voice. I haven’t in so long.”

Her breathing slowed as she got her shaking under control. She kept glaring at him without a hint of anything beyond a desire to maim and burn and kill, starting with him.

“…please?” he said.

“You left me.”

“I did,” he said immediately. “I’m sorry. I was stupid. Call me that however many times you want.”

“You never came back.”

“I didn’t. I don’t have any excuse.”

He desperately searched her face for any hint of softness. There was none, not the slightest trace of softness, only hatred. He deserved all of it if it was his fault that she had been tempted onto this bloodstained path.

“Just…just come back, Heather,” he begged. “Come back. I’m sorry. You don’t have to ever forgive me. Just return to the way you were. I’ll give up everything to be with you. They’ll understand. Leaving you was the biggest mistake I ever made.”

She smiled, and his heart soared. It crashed and burned when he heard her next words.

“Come back, you say,” she jeered. “Come back to the way you were. You never came back. Why should I, oh paladin most righteous?”

“I…I…”

“You think I was tempted into this,” she said. “That may be true. But it was my choice to make in the end, and I’ve stuck to it. Whatever comes next, I deal with alone.”

“That’s wrong!” he shouted. “You don’t have to go it alone, I can help you. Aren’t we friends? Isn’t that what friendship is for?”

“We were friends.”

That one line drove an icy spike of dread through his chest.

>>23020764
>>23020785
>>23021140
I know youre trying hard, but I cant take this seriously at all because the premise is so damn retarded.
>Bawww, my childhood sweetheart left me!
>Welp, better destroy the world.

>>23021211
To be fair though people can be pretty crazy and there is some vagueness in OP's statement. I mean perhaps some malign force sought her out and offered power and purpose when just after the breakup left her emotionally compromised, perhaps then her tumbling down such a dark path can become understandable.

Besides I like this kind of story.

>>23021343
There is no vagueness. This girl was so stuck on you that she remained virginal for you, but she has no problem selling her soul to demons and terrorizing the countryside for no fucking reason.

If she really loved you, she would have remained pure of soul as well as body.
>Besides I like this kind of story.
I find it overwrought and overplayed to the extreme, especially the way /tg/ always goes batfuck insane over these kind of stories, but maybe I'm just being a little hipster asshole who has been overexposed to /tg/s obsession with this shit.

>>23021211
>>23021343

Yep, who's to say a malevolent force didn't feed off her sorrow and transform her into a vehicle of evil?

>>23021399
Then you aren't killing her but rather a malevolent force wearing her body and thus there is no conflict as her death is a mercy to the girl trapped within.

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>>23016703
>noble paladin
>vow of chastity
>implying male
...wait are you talking to me? Because I don't think you're talking to me.

>>23021393
All we really know about her backstory, that the OP gave us is she became a blackguard after we left. Whether she was always truly evil and twisted and our presence held the crazy down, or some demon thought it would make a great joke if he forced some hapless maiden down this path because he foresaw something like this happening we know not.

Different strokes for different folks

>>23021463
Depends what I had supposed was that the girl had been truly broken by the demonic forces made her into a blackguard and they guided her to become their champion. Which is something slightly different and perhaps more tragic than merely possessing her.

But much of the conflict is that on some level the paladin (us) was responsible for her downfall, and that we had once loved this now twisted and vile creature.

>>23021463
It doesn't have to be possession. Just one of those "Good... let the anger flow through you..." type things.

>>23021393
Dude there is plenty of vagueness just because OP didn't list a reason for her to terrorize the countryside doesn't mean there isn't one, plus we have no idea as to how the deal went down or if the demons burned through everything and violated her till the only reprieve from her now hellish life was to become their pawn. So shut up you little hipster and next time you see people having fun in a thread you are too pretentious to ever like don't go into and shit on it.

>>23021140
I do think you are doing a good job with this and I would like to see you finish.

>>23021779
>OP didn't list a reason for her to terrorize the countryside
I guess you're right, I was just OH WAIT
>Helga Stoneskin turned to a life of evil after being abandoned by her true love
Yup, op totally listed a reason, dumbass.
>if the demons burned through everything and violated her till the only reprieve from her now hellish life was to become their pawn
Yeah, I guess that one is true OH WAIT
>who even went so far as to take a vow of chastity
Yeah, there we go. Still chaste in body and became evil of her own volition. And speaking of making groundless assumptions, where exactly did he say that demons were ravaging the countryside? Seems to me like the countryside was doing just fine until Helga Stonebitch started fucking it up. IN FACT
>Your latest quest is tracking down a rogue army led by powerful blackguard
Thats exactly what op said.

And for the record, I never told the guy to quit and expressly stated that I was being a bit of a stick in the mud and to ignore me if you wanted to. Shit, I even used the word hipster on myself and yet you still got this butthurt at my assessment. If anything, you just strengthened my conviction that ops little scenario is dumb as hell.

>>23016703
>turned to a life of evil

What exactly has she done?

>>23021872
Not the ass you were replying to, but to be fair, what op provided is just the barest of bones for a plot. True, she started going down the evil path because of the whole heartbreak thing, but that hardly seems like the next logical step would be to raise an army and burn the countryside. It's vague enough that they could work in some shit about demons twisting her, or whatever. Also, figured the whole chastity thing was what the paladin did, though op's wording was poor so it could be either.

That said, while I'm with you on the scenario as it stands being stupid as hell, if it's just the groundwork, it could become a decent enough scenario, even though it would be full of cliches.

>>23022088
>what op provided is just the barest of bones for a plot
Apparantly me suddenly being a paladin with a vow of chastity is "barest of bones"

>>23018314
Nope CE only. Only.
Code of conduct.
They can never knowingly commit a good or lawful act.
Nor ever knowingly travel or trade with good associates.

Alright lets go through this
1 All we know from that is her evil started after we left that's it. Thus the possibility of another reason still exists.

2 I will admit I am not precisely sure how the vow of chastity works, but I am pretty sure it doesn't offer infinite protection from evil outsiders that may seek her harm to more easily manipulate them so that one is still in play. But the point I was trying to make is that nowhere was it stated that something else couldn't be lerking in the shadows for there twist reveal.

3. A powerful blackguard leading a rogue army that terrorizes the country side, is really all we know so far of the quest. Their motives or how they were rallied is all unknown, so they could have been forged for a much grander ambition then gaining revenge in an extremely circuitous manner on their some country bumpkins ex.

But mostly what I am saying is any amount of depth or twists could be present in the story but they just have yet to be revealed.

>>23022212
This should have been linked to this>>23021872

>>23018962
they didn't need to do zilch. the russians already steamrolled eastern and central europe, reached Berlin before any of the other Allies, would have stomped through the entire Germany.
The other Allies freed France, and just barely grabbed a claim at Germany (and even that only to prevent the russians from extending their claims).

>>23022623
I know its hard to believe but the russians were running outta guys, if germany didn't need to divide their forces the ussr would have fallen before the nazies.

>>23022212
Originally, it was a vow that you will not get married.

Keep in mind this is from way back when marriage was a way to produce heirs [nepotism] and contracts between lands/buisnesses/etc. The whole reason religion did such a grab to take it over during the Common Era was because this literally allows you to become the final arbiter of contract-making and assigning top positions. The Catholic Church added god to marriage because that puts everyone with a shred of influence at their mercy.

So priests could not get married.
married.
They had concubines, they had kids, their favorite, known illegitimates were often given positions. Alexander VI's many sons were made cardinals for example.

Even between monks and sisters; there was plenty of babies. You couldn't get married, but nothing was stopping you from having sex.

That stuff only really started getting clamped down on [FOR THOSE OUTSIDE THE CHURCH, NOT IN IT] when they started losing power over contracts and buisness; at which point they started taking over 'lifestyles' instead: and there's nothing more powerful than control over people's sex lives.

Why would I ever take a vow of chastity? I follow Kord nigga.

Still, whatever, I'll go along with your game

First I'll kill all her useless followers. Find out what god she follows and desecrate a temple for Kord. Then I'll track her down and challenge her to a dual. if she's any good we fuck, if she's weak she dies.

If kord flips his shit I fight him until we're friends again

>>23022764
I understand such vows work in the real world but in D&D, I feared it would have lended some sort of credence to the assertion that Helga had become evil completely of her own volition.

>>23022764
>Alexander VI

Isn't that Rodrigo Borgia?

I don't think you can fairly call anything a Borgia did legitimate Catholic behavior.

>>23021872
actually I think it was her true love the paliden who took the vow not her

>>23016703
>GODS DAMMIT, HELGA! This is why we broke up to begin with! You just can't take bad news well at all and you were so fucking clingy! Look at you, even now when you're supposed to be trying to killing me, you're instead violating my personal space- Stop feeling me up and listen to me! Look here, lots of couples break up, most of them move on, as in eighty percent move on, THEY DO NOT COMMIT MASS HOMICIDE! NO! A disembodied child's head is not going to impress me! Look, I told you before I left that you needed to see some serious help, that did not mean to join a blackguard cult, dammit! I meant someone to help you with your mental issues. You know, the ones that made you call me 'daddy' every time we had sex? Or gave you that fetish for being spanked and soiling yourself? Look, I get fetishes can be normal and healthy, but all of yours all point to some severe abandonment iss- Are you even listening to me?!
An hour of verbally tearing into her later, we're in the ruins of some tavern, I'm stroking her hair and letting her cry on my shoulder.
>I-I'm sorry. I'm not sorry about what I said, you needed to hear those things... I'm just sorry I was kind of dick about it. Look, look... I can accept losing a vow of Chasitity and giving us another chance, but you gotta be willing to show the same dedication. You can start by calling off your army and seeking psychological help. And I mean non-evil-cult psychological help. My order's probably gonna be pretty pissed with you too, I can't promise I'll keep you safe but I can talk to them. We'll work through his, baby- ... No, now is not a good time to play 'daddy dearest' again, and I am not spanking your bottom.

>>23022929
>You know, the ones that made you call me 'daddy' every time we had sex?
>vow of chastity
>sex

>>23022929
/thread

>>23022946
He left her became to become a paladin he hadn't taken any vows before then.

>>23022966
That would be a vow of celibacy, not chastity. Chastity means never had sex ever.

>>23022830
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes

And that's just the popes. You know, the highest position there. Not the 'less holy' dudes under them [no puns intended].

No True Scotsman when it comes to Clergy/Senatos and sex tends to leave you with more of those doppelgangers than the 'real' folks.

This wouldn't be an 'attack' or 'complaint' in any way were it not for the vitriolic levels of hypocrisy on the subject by said church; mind you. Back when those popes were going at it with their wives or concubines, no one gave a fuck about it. Its only now that they go "no one can do that, that's bad, we've never done that and neither should you ever have" that we kinda have to point and go "uh, actually dude..."

>>23022994
>Hey, look, I was gonna apply for the former, but when applying for vows, the only option available was Chastity, I asked about it, and they said something about Chastity rolling off the tongue better. It's paladin politics, man, don't even try to figure it out.
>Anyway though, it was either that, or I take the vow that involved actually getting my dick and balls chopped off.

>>23022994
No, Chastity means no sex outside marriage, Celibacy means no sex or marriage.

>>23022994
celibacy

cel·i·ba·cy
[sel-uh-buh-see] Show IPA
noun
1.
abstention from sexual relations.
2.
abstention by vow from marriage: the celibacy of priests.
3.
the state of being unmarried.

chaste
Use Chaste in a sentence
chaste
[cheyst] Show IPA
adjective, chast·er, chast·est.
1.
refraining from sexual intercourse that is regarded as contrary to morality or religion; virtuous.
2.
virgin.
3.
not engaging in sexual relations; celibate.
4.
free from obscenity; decent: chaste conversation.
5.
undefiled or stainless: chaste, white snow.


Celibacy is no more sex or marrage, Chastity is not being a slut. I think you may have them backwards.

>>23022994
Actually, Chastity meant "no sex before marriage", as well as "no sex or marriage within a year of your husband's death" for widows, among other regulations.

Under some churches, your vow of clerical celibacy is actually "you can't remarry after your wife dies". In others, it merely limits what position you can attain by normal means, such as "can't become bishop or higher".

Then some of the councils were VERY specific, in a common high-riches-high-influence manner: "you can't marry or have sex if you're a sub-deacon, deacon, monk or priest" [note there's nothing against it for bishops, cardinals, and so on...]

Nay, vows have changed much, and continue to do so to what is most convenient for the church and its leaders.

>>23023054
That's the usual... 'version' we may call it, known in north america. The modern meaning of it, but in no way the only way ever, especially when discussing monolithic bureaucratic entities...

Also be aware that "no sex" wasn't really enforced till the mid 1300s, and there's always exceptions.

>>23023036
>>23023054
>>23023082
>Yeah, anyway though, outside of all that, anyone know a good psychologist in a fantasy Medieval Europe that honestly lacks any real European cultural conventions outside of feudalism?

>>23023125
Yeah, he's called your priest.
If he's not there, you can take an appointment through his wife.

>>23023131
>I don't trust my Order's main priest. He keeps claiming everything we do is for the sake of sex and that I want to bone my mother. Gods, he would have a field day with Helga.

>>23023106
The vows reflect the words I do realize that the modern no sex thing wasn't really introduced till the church started getting really openly corrupt, before they decided it was time to get 'buckle down' as it were. But the vows always reflect the words they are based off of but never did chastity mean no marriage or sex, that is celibacy.

>>23023125
Its called a sword to the fucking skull. For both of you.

>>23023152
Saint Cuthbert tells us the best relations with one's wife are punishing.

An ill-cooked meal, a dropped platter, spilled wine or even a possibly, accumulitively noxious show of anger upon your children, all these things deserve your righteous fury.

She's been bad, a bad, bad girl, and it is your holy duty to ravage her with justice in your loins and a kind but sharp slap in her arears.

>>23023152
Zeus tells me I should totally hit that. Should I totally hit that? I believe in the mighty Zeus and his divine wisdom; as should you. It would be quite fruitful to your relations if I were to hit it like a kinky duck.

... or maybe AS one...

>>23023125
what kind of conventions does it have then?
we could figure out 'whom in the community had that kind of role' from there.

>>23023125
The barkeep, or the cleric, or maybe the alchemist.

>>23020764
>>23020785
>>23021140
I think its a damn sham this writefag didn't finish.

>>23021393
>I find it overwrought and overplayed to the extreme, especially the way /tg/ always goes batfuck insane over these kind of stories, but maybe I'm just being a little hipster asshole who has been overexposed to /tg/s obsession with this shit.
No, given the average fantasy book recommendation on /tg/, I think you're pretty spot on.

>>23023449
Too right; it was shaping up well...

>>23018478
>>23018510
Alright, alight, it was a simple question. I just can't comprehend evil for evil's sake, which seems to be the idea of a blackguard, as I understood it. Evil for a reason, or evil because it gets you something, that I can comprehend and deal with; hell, even evil as revenge, or lashing out in anger or hurt, I can understand! I just can't see how someone would feel good by hurting or killing others, or making others feel horrible and hopeless - I genuinely can't. I can't speak for Mussolini, but even Hitler was doing evil for a totally deranged and wrong, but still understandable reason! You can follow the progression in his thoughts that lead to the atrocities he committed. I mean for goodness sake, even the JOKER has some twisted sense to him (with some writers)! The Joker's pretty much the definition of Chaotic Evil, but he's still at least vaguely understandable, in his own insane way!

Is there something wrong with me? I just can't comprehend that kind of senseless, systematic evil...

>And on a totally unrelated note!
>>23022929
Kind of strange, but... Eh, this is 4chan, as I've been reminded. And at least it's the paladin thing to do!

By the way, is there a difference between a blackguard and an anti-paladin? I've always used the terms interchangeably, but I've been informed that may be wrong...

Ask her to meet up unarmed, privately and make amends

When she arrives at the destination I ambush her with a squad of fellow arch Paladins

Cut her head off and place it on a pike and quarter her body and send a limb to each corner of the Kingdom as a warning to any would-be villains

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I show her my swords, if you know what I mean.

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I'm going to kindly ask her to return that life to god.

The it's suicide-time, because I'm a glory hound and THIS is THE chance to have our songs sung foevermore.

Do true paladins have to be celibate in D&D?

Are they forbidden from marrying?

>>23025222

No. Why should they?

I would defeat her, cut her hands and feet off, drag her to the middle of one of the towns she terrorized, erect a stone pillar with a human indent, place her in it, wrap her arms and legs around it, use healling magic the fuse the stumps together, then let the townspeople vent their frustrations on her.

She used love to fuel her hatred of the common man, so she can drown the common man's love.

>>23025321
Your paladin falls. And then your DM kills you. Not your character, you. Because you are a despicable human being. Then the DM is acquitted of murder on grounds of temporary insanity deriving from you being a disgusting slimeball.

>>23025458
He is no more despicable than the op who comes up with this contrived bullshit.

>You're a successful paladin who has defeated many great evils. Your latest quest is tracking down a rogue army led by powerful blackguard. However you have discovered that, Helga Stoneskin, the blackguard terrorizing the western provinces is your former teenage sweetheart from before you joined the Order of the Holy Chalice! Rumor has it, Helga Stoneskin turned to a life of evil after being abandoned by her true love, who even went so far as to take a vow of chastity. That would be you. What do you do, noble paladin?

>Rumor has it, Helga Stoneskin turned to a life of evil after being abandoned by her true love, who even went so far as to take a vow of chastity. That would be you.

>Helga Stoneskin turned to a life of evil... That would be you.
>that would be you

Deny these wild accusations and declare I, Helga Stoneskin am no blackguard, nor am I my own former teenage sweetheart.

>>23025500
>not committing egocest

I hold her in a deep embrace and tell her how I feel. I tell her how I have always loved her more than anything in this world, and that I want to share my life with her. If I can redeem such a tainted soul, it will be a greater act of good then any smiting of evil I have laid down in my exalted mission. If she still chooses to strike me down as I hold her to my breast, I will meet my Lord and receive my eternal reward, safe in the knowledge that one of my brothers-in-arms will rise up to defeat her in my stead. Good will always triumph.

I approached her "Tell me child, is it right to take the countless lives of others because you have been scorned? I chose this path to protect others and assure everyone has a future."

"You have obviously forgotten what made you interested in me in the first place. Have you completely forgotten the memories we shared of our youth? You would be willing to slaughter countless innocent human beings all because I chose to protect people? The only other reason I chose this was to protect YOU! One who I held affections to from my youth yet could not stay to indulge on such."

I then drew my sword and pointed it at her "I no longer see any trace of the woman I once held affections for. You but a monstrosity only befitting of death! You are bane incarnate to all that live and must be destroyed!"

>>23025572

Was going to reply to OP but this anon's post is better than what I had/

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>>23021140

>Finished the first part, then Internet crashed before could upload the second.
>Go to bed, wake up to see thread has been rerailed.
>MISSION ACCOMPLISHED


2/2, 3/5

“I’ve grown up, William,” she said, in an almost tender voice. “I’m not that girl you fell in love with anymore. You assume that the moment you resign from your Order, things will go back to the way they were. Well, that’s not how life works. People change. I’ve changed. You’ve changed.”

She leveled her sword at him. “I’ve committed too many crimes. You’re too committed to upholding order and justice. You and I can’t return to our childhood. It’s impossible.”

>Do you guys want me to finish?

Honestly? If I was a dirty peasant in some feudal shithole I'd become a blackguard at the drop of a hat.

>no education
>no healthcare
>constant menial work
>the fruits of which mostly go to some local nobles
>nobles that can and will shit on you any time they like
>oh wait maybe it's not so bad as long as I have [insert person]
>oh no I guess they died in a war or via disease or got snapped up by some noble to join his weird monastic order

Dark infernal powers with which to break free of this absolutely dire and meaingless life? And all I have to do to get them is contact one measly outsider? Yes please.

>>23025792
>he asks if /tg/ wants him to finish a writefag session

Nigga, don't make me get the slappin' gloves out. Git ta work.

>>23016703

"Dammit, Helga! You were supposed to attack on the 6th of August, not the 8th of June! What do you mean I should have made it more clear? Doesn't everyone use mm/dd/yy?"

>>23025321
It's people like you that erode my faith in humanity, day by day.

Seriously, who even comes up with something this monstrous?

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>>23025792
Writing please! I was interested to see where you were going. It's better than my attempts at least.

Everyone's all "smite her" or "lawful hot dickings" but in my case I would just break her legs.

Pretty hard to be an effective evil paladin like that. Raising her if we kill her isn't a big deal either.

I save my lawful hot dickings for the goddess when I ascend at the end of campaign

>>23018781
Bats were weaponized.

I'm going to take her down. It is my duty, and if I saw fit to give up so much before, why would I relent now?

I'm going to try to not slay her. To capture her, see if she can still be saved. But if she is too far gone. If the sweet heart I knew in my youth is dark and hardened, then I shall put her down.

>>23026571
Legs heal.
In fact, in a setting with healing magic, most injuries heal.
Kill her.

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"I'm sorry Helga, but it wasn't you. I'm gay. Now calm the fuck down. Maybe we could go on a double date? I know a necromancer I'm sure you'd hit it off with!"