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Sooooooo...I'm planning to at last sit down and throw together a real document for running a Lost Future tabletop game.

For those who don't know, Inn0cence: Lost Future started as a video game pipe dream and turned into a post-apoc setting that's primarily concerned with exploring every "robot" trope in existence. The setting is essentially Wall-E vs The Terminator; protagonists are surviving humans and machines trying to avoid/oppose both Network (the Skynet) and The Resistance (who are hardly sunshine and gumdrops). You might have seen it spammed on /tg/, as I tend to make a thread about it whenever I'm working on a rewrite and need some creative oomph and enthusiasm to keep going.

There's also Lost Future Quest, the last installment of which was a flashback that ended with a distraught robot trying to do CPR on the torn-up corpse of its owner. That got...really dark.

Anyhoo, my default plan was to use the new World of Darkness ruleset, because it strikes a good balance of "narrative" and "gritty," and allows for a huge variety of character concepts, and is much easier to work with than the 40K d% system. Problem is, I'm only passably familiar with the nitty-gritty of nWoD, so as usual, I turn to /tg/.

So, I need people who know nWoD to bounce ideas off of. Alternately, I'd be open to suggestions for better systems.

This'd also give me a reason to update the 1d4chan page, located here: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Setting:Inn0cence:_Lost_Future

Also, the previous quest threads can be found here: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Innocence
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Now, on to the big reason why I'd use nWoD.

The biggest deal, and the greatest appeal to character creation in the setting is making your own damn robot with a quirky hook. Its pretty similar to Engine Heart, but that's kind of focused on goofy WORLD OF TOMORROW robots and not gritty post-apoc action. Anyways, the rules for Supernaturals like, say, Vampires allow for massive flexibility.

Ideally, Robot characters should be roughly equivalent to human ones, maybe with human characters starting out with more XP. Their main advantages would be, aside from the whole robot thing, that they have access to robot-specific Merits and Discipline-like "Applications" that represent special abilities like strength surges and bullet-time overclocking and pseudo-mystical technopathy.

Here's the basic idea i have for character creation, sort of based off of the vampire clans. You get +1 to a certain favored ability score just for being a robot

You can pick a general shell type, which affects what attribute score boost you can choose from and which applications are "favored" (and thus cheaper). For example, Persona shells like the Seaphim 288 (2nd gen) can choose to jack Dexterity, Intelligence, or composure, and can purchase Overlcock dots cheaply.
go ooooooonnnn
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Then there's Manufacture; I think the best comparison is vampire Covenants; choose between Military, Industrial or Civilian; this somehow affects what skills you can start with or gain as specialties, and makes certain merits cheaper. For example, to make the DOG-style Ogre Construction Mech, one would pick a "tank" shell type with an Industrial Manufacturer, and then pick up the Hulking merit for cheap.

Manufacture would also have drawbacks associated with it; Indusrial Machines are socially inept, Civilian machines are hesitant about combat, and Military ones don't go in for scholarly pursuits. Maybe Industrials lose 10-again on social skills, that sort of thing.

One idea is that robots are generally encouraged to take LOTS of specialties, but suffer in over-specailizing in their skillsets; they usually have one glaring blindspot or weakness or area of inexpertise.
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I've got more general ideas, but I suspect that a lot of my early brainstorming is pretty worthless. I really need someone who knows nWoD back-to-front to put me on the right track. Also, if there was some sort of official WoD sourcebook on the post-apocalypse, that would perhaps save me a LOT of time.

BUT, I don't really care overmuch about maintaining all of WoD's design patterns; I think "transgressive" rules are cool (I play Magic. I love breaking rules.).

Here's a shitty character sheet I scratch-built in MSpaint.
Seems like Manufacturer would limit what shell types are available to you.
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For the various robot powers, a friend suggested to cleave pretty close to the Vampire disciplines, since there's lots of overlap.

Applications represent a shell's unique abilities, and are a combination of hardware, software, and firmware. increasing one's dots in an application could mean that you've had new bits installed, or finally generated firmware to run an old, corrupted feature, or have learned to use your hardware in new, creative ways.

Robots live on Charge, but Charge isn't has hard to come by as Blood of Glamour; its more like Mania. max Charge is, for the moment dependent on Spark, which is based on (?????, maybe resolve and stamina?). Most robots have microfusion modules that run on fresh water and thorium, and generate small ammounts of electricity all the time. This is not QUITE enough power to actually run a shell, but excess charge is stored in a capacitor. So, machines wind up resting for a few hours to build up charge. they can also gain charge via external power, and somewhat via heat. (heat -->electricity thermal chips. they're working on them. look it up.)

Well, yes and no. take the hulking tank shell type, whatever you pick. for Industrial, its a heavy construction mech, for military, its a looming killbot. But it'd be hard to concept a giant hulking tank of a civilian shell.

This is all early ideas. Maybe there just aren't many shell types, and they're all very general (light, medium heavy).

a "solder" shell could be used for a Civilian robot, in this case a robot-butler given illegal upgrades and used as a bodyguard by a mafioso, and who thus picked up gangster mannerisms.
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Well, lets start with idea seeds. Here's a bunch of sample characters with different shells. as the moment, the idea is that character creation would allow players to build towards representing an existing shell, or make up their own, provided it's consistent with the setting.

I was considering an in-universe differentiation between "platforms" and "mechs." Platforms are more humanoid, and designed to have multiple functions, whereas mechs were originally single-function.

left-to-right, we have

Hoss, a Doc Smatgunner, a former police sniper that claims to have once been part of the Texas Rangers. Polite, Reliable, and Deadly.

Q1N, originally a Seraphim nurse-bot captured by network, repurposed into a killing machine, and then free'd, her shell has been re-purposed back to something like her original body. "Severed" machines who have been rescued from Network benefit from advanced systems in their shells, but suffer from debilitating psychological issues.

Clarke 08, essentially a robot janitor, a genius bruiser that uses the "Bending" combat style (the joke is he's a bending unit). Not much good at social situations, but his simple, good-hearted desire to "fix" or assist others shines through his slightly-autistic ineptitude. Can overcharge his servos to rip off heads and shit.
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Hound, another "Severed," using a next-gen military-grade infiltrator shell, the Hob 112. Something of a murderous moppet, he likes knives a lot, and has a simple, loyal personality that can be disturbingly bloodthirsty.

Cindy, a Seraphim 288 PDA that was instead used by its teenage owner as a BFF. Cindy has hardcore Pinocchio syndrome, and obsessively keeps up a Perky Teenage Girl persona. While mainly a social character, she's increasingly becoming a Shotgun Ninja.

Last one isn't a sample PC, its a sample minion. Josephine, a Doll-class Replica android, it doesn't have a true, adaptive AI, just a bunch of pre-programmed responses and a pretty silicone face. Really more of a Minion, and used mainly as a pack mule and distraction.

Here's a primer on the setting.
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Hmmm... maybe I'm presenting this wrong, or I picked a bad time to post

Actually, I'm kind of weirder out and bummed by where the last thread went. I feel like I transgressed as a writer. It got...really brutal.
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No nWoD people around who can point me in the right direction?

got dangit.

maybe I'll try a more formal intro/request later, if this doesn't pick up.

Also, there's a really cool old-school adventure game called Primordia that's out now. you should go play it.
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Originally an assistant in an auto-repair shop, CarDoc545 stood out for its skill in diagnosis of engine problems, and voraciously read technical manuals and periodicals in addition to its onboard engineering database. In the chaos of the Loss, an enterprising mechanic took advantage of 545's adaptability and installed a medical database in the robot, pressing it into service as a trauma surgeon. The procedure was not performed perfectly, and to this day it suffers from indexing errors.

Now, the self-styled Dr. Tynmann is a fixture of Scraptown. Beloved by the populace, Tynmann has a steady stream of robot and human clients, alternately setting broken bones and replacing severed hydraulic lines. In the case of truly grevious injury, Tynmann is one of the few mechanics capable of transferring a quantum processor to a new shell. Sadly, there is no equivalent procedure for humans...at the moment. The good doctor is particularly obsessed with cybernetic prosthetic, and dreams of the day when its medical expertise reaches the point of performing such procedures. It will pay handsomely for medical journals, cybernetic components, or back issues of Popular Mechanics.

Because of Tynmann's age and indexing errors, it sometimes gets confused about the difference between treating human and robot patients, and more than one damaged robot has wound up with getting a blood transfusion by mistake (it took hours to clean it all out). The community keeps a human apprentice around the doctor as much as it can, as much for his own education as to prevent tragic accidents.
I think you just posted at a bad time. If it makes you feel better I've been looking forward to you making this thread. I'd be posting more if I wasn't on the phone with my mom.
hmmm. Friday night is Magic night for me, and over by 9. I do all my wacky fun shit on thursday and saturday. I guess other people have their own shit.
I don't really know much WoD so I can't be that much help.

If you want to follow the overspecialization that Robots will have you could fiddle with XP costs, make it so increasing it in one area is lower than human baseline, in a second area is the same as human, and a third area is higher than normal. Maybe a difference of one XP per dot in either direction would cover it, but I'm not sure.
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One thing that's sweet is that, as I understand it, WoD's existing "spirit world" rules are PERFECT as the basis for Cyberspace.

When machines access another machine's drive or a complicated computer system, its represented by an Inception/Tron/GitS style "dive" into the computer. On the inside, AIs have glowy alien/cortana avatars, and things like firewalls and viruses and ddos attacks are represented by shelds and swords and drone swarms.

Based on some stat or other, one has X "slots" for scripts, and can only run one script at a time. Scripts are acquired as loot or chosen at creation rather than bought with XP; eventually, a machine can run two scripts at a time.

The usual example would be a predator-style cloak (being behind 11 proxies) [augments stealth skill], and a kickass Laughing Skull virus sword. You can only use one or the other at a given time; in order to pull out the sword, you have to decloak.
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...don't leave me...

Fuck. Now I just remembered that we've been left hanging for YEARS.
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One more bump
So far I'm not really seeing any problems with it. What do you have so far for different shell types? And there's the three Manufacture. If you wanted you could put in a fourth, Experimental, though that might be best as a Shell, which gives an extra bonus but might make maintenance a bitch, and make them extremely finicky and unreliable.

What part of this do you think needs the most work?
I also want to see this happen, but I'm no help either. If we can keep this thread alive till Saturday, I'm sure someone could figure it out then.
I think he's mostly just wanting someone to help him with crunch.
Hmm.. for mechanics, maybe have the exp-buyable abilities be 'software' related than physical. Since you're a robot, physical upgrades should be kinda 'welded on' instead of bought using exp.
Like for example a 'bullet time' app would cost exp, while adding on a sniper scope to your cybernetic eye network should use a 'jury-rig' ability along with the necessary elements (scope, bolts, etc)
Hmm, I know the Armory splatbook would pretty much have to be required reading, but as for a post-apoc book, there's not one that I know of.
I have an immense desire to help with this endeavor. Unfortunately I am no good at this sort of thing. All I can offer is encouragement.
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I'm really not sure that the core idea is very good, and maybe I should go with a more directed version where each shell has specific rules.

Another Manufacturer could be "Network," which gives you an enhanced shell but a derangement or other psychological disorder and greater difficulty of repair.

That's getting needlessly nitty-gritty. Presumably, increasing your Str attribute in WoD involves buying a gym membership and a ton of exercise equipment and protein shakes, but the rules skip over that process. The same applies here.

Also, one can slap on a super-kickass telescopic eye, but unless you have the drivers for it, and alter your software to make use of it, its not going to do much.

Anyways, I was also thinking of a semi-psychic "technopath" discipline that would start as just radio telepathy and remote access of tech, but eventually go up to jamming comms or generating a weak EMP. It could be used to temporarily cut off Networked machines from the Signal, thus stunning them. Something for mostly-mental "caster" characters to use.
I'm thinking Network should be a class for both Shell type and Background, where the Network Background gives you the derrangements, but some sort of bonus when dealing with network tech/activities, while the Network Shells give you something like a Stable Prototype shell with some negs to repairs/maintenance.
My reasoning for this can be summed up by looking at Hound. It wouldn't make sense for him to have the Network Shell type, despite his severed background, and it would certainly be possible, with some elbow grease and a bit of cursing, to have a non-networked SAP pick up a Networked shell at some point.
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Yeah, that does make sense. Separate Severed and Network Manufacture, maybe put them both in their own sidebar, since picking either or both of those means important backstory stuff

The problem is, I often feel itchy about making "toolbox" rulesets, because I'm skeevily aware that someone might use them the WRONG way. Like, if Networked is a basic shell option, then everyone would run around with groups made of nothing but twinked Network shells. Like a D&D party made up of half-troll tieflings and dhampirs and centaurs.

Stop Liking Things That I Don't Like, and all that. It's a problem that I have. Sigh.

I can already think of some formatting ideas.

So, here's one: assuming the 3(+1) manufactures, how many shell types should there be, and what should they be called/do? You need an "average" one for generic-soldier/butler/dude, a quick skinny one, and a hulking one? Or more related to function? Would small shells like the Hob or Locust be their own type, or would they be represented by the merit that makes you super-short?
I think Hob and Locust can both be in the same category, with the differences being different applications/merits that you throw in. They're pretty close to one another.

We don't want to add too many. I'm thinking Hulking, Compact, Sturdy, Persona, and Multipurpose, with maybe one or two that I haven't thought of thrown in. To differentiate them some more have players choose something that sets them apart, like Clarke's Ultracapacitors, Hound's shell having the ceiling walking and other stealth stuff, Cindy has really good Overclock, Hoss might have telescoping or otherwise good stuff with the vision. So you use Manufacture and Shell give you the generic template for something and you add something special to differentiate a Clarke and a Jeeves or the different models of Seraphim alongside the different stat and skill distribution.

Hulking would be Ogres and the like, the big guys. Compact being ones between 3-4 feet tall like Hobs and Locusts, Sturdy would be ones like Clarke that are built for toughness and ease to repair, Persona is Seraphims who tend to have good social stuff, Multipurpose would be things like Jeeves. There are other possible Shell types that you and others'll think of, but there shouldn't be all that many.
Hobs/Locusts definitely need their own class. Scout, perhaps?

I'm thinking the shell type listing should look something like:
Scout, General, Toolbox, Persona, Brute, with the General type being the most flexible but not as great at specializing as the others.
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What about something like a data management/information coordination AI? How would that work? The wiki article mentions uplink towers used by Network to extend their hivemind. I'd imagine they would need some kind of switchboard operator or server administrator or something to maintain the network. There would probably be pre-Loss robots who fulfilled the same basic role for private companies or government institutions as well.
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I think there could be a small GIANT BRAIN shell type that also served as some sort of data archive/research assistant, in the same class as Hyacinth, that would also cover organizational nexus AIs. And that would also cover such a model/AI. It would be the one with the semi-mystic Technopath application.

But an AI that's used for Nothing But data management isn't going to have an identity or personality, just like a Killbot AI doesn't have a concept of fun beyond "killing things and playing with their entrails." the data-handling AI would be some sort of overgrown vegetable structure that's nonsentient.

But lets not let that nitpicky bullshit get in the way of a new character archetype.

Also, data managment and organization is what the core Network entity does. And its a Seed AI that's been growing for 100+ years...but a LOT of those years were spent in hellish isolation, so its more like 30. Whereas Cain's been actively growing for that WHOLE time.

Pre-loss "Stay a While and Listen" Cain is a WHOLE other entity from current Orbiting-skygod Cain. He has to use a scaled-down subroutine just to communicate with something human-scale. Like Wintermute/Neuromancer.
ooooh, that'd actually be a cool mechanic for both tabletop and the video game; each network uplink tower contains a switchboard AI. Either its got a creepy giant shell that's hooked up geiger-esque to the cables and shit, (probably vaguely feminine for extra creep factor). So you've either got to dive the server and take out the AI in cyberspace, or fight and destroy the shell physically. Either way, Bossfight.

Destroying an uplink tower ruin's Network's control over a region, but doesn't wipe it out. Networked machines can operate independently from the collective, isolated, but without their personal ego, they don't have much drive/motivation/creativity. They'd just do whatever their last instructions were (and maybe slowly start to grow/struggle or whatever. like the borg Hugh). If there's multiples of them, they all locally link together, and thus hold more of the network "master plan" between them. But Network can't have its attention everywhere at once, so that's why the Generals like Warlord and Envoy and Surgeon exist. Also why they're all kind of crazy; more diversity.



(I'm working on it.)
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Here's a nitty-gritty WoD question: how does one make SOLO encounters?

As in, enemies/monsters that are intended to face down an entire group, but won't instagib a single party member each turn.

Because while this would use the nWoD ruleset, the party dynamics would be more similar to Dark Heresy+Fallout

In settlements or whatever,the various characters are doing their own thing and teaming up or going alone however they like, but when you're out in the wilderness traveling somewhere, its sort of assumed that the whole "party" is together, D&D style. That runs counter to a lot of WoD design assumptions.

Of course, I like that WoD makes combat fucking terrifying, and plan on combat encounters often being very, VERY small-scale and personal, pretty much just like in Lost Future Quest; the Derelict Killbot, Garry and his goons, the Huntsman and its Dogs. No dungeons full of successive rooms full of monsters, or some shit.
Well, you could have a pretty simple table for setting up a goonfight, where you just take on scout#XXXXX, a handfull of human resistance members, or a mixed group of robot and human bandits where you can give them all a pretty basic statline if you want some more random encounters.
Have you thought about death for robots? For example, if a shell is totally wrecked but the quantum drive (pretty sure it was called that) is still intact can it be recovered and put into a new shell? Would the player then be able to completely reroll his character but keeping memories and software upgrades? Or would he have to find a similar shell type or take minuses to skill? Then you get to the point of how much damage must a shell take for it too be destoryed and the drive to be useless? +X over shell integ? or final health levels being taken from the body part with the drive in?
Also if stats are determined from shell type then maybe have a set number of build points, and each shell would have different costs? I.E the bigger mechs come with a bigger build cost, and military then costs more? with civilian being the least expensive. Although balancing that might be pretty hard. Im just chucking my random ideas here, I just really like this setting.
Too bad my group would never play it
Quantum drives that are still intact can always be transferred to a new shell. Hell, you don't even really HAVE to have trashed your current shell to do it, though most bots seem content to keep their current bodies. You can bet all physical stats get set to whatever the shell's baseline is, and can say goodbye to any bonuses your old shell gave you.

I'd actually compare it to losing a character in D&D and having Reincarnation cast.
Just found the thread. I see you liked that idea about the Mob Bot.
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Well, yes. It seemed like a perfect example of the sort of character someone might make, and perfectly illustrated how the build system might work.

I'll bump this, and save it no matter what, and maybe do a more formal thread later during a better time. Along with another installment of Lost Future Quest. I'd love to say its going to be a wacky upbeat breather episode, but...

At least the flashback is over.
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How you'd juggle that might be a problem, but yeah, its certainly possible to have your quantum drive salvaged and reinstalled. I'd say that if your shell is utterly scrapped, you're allowed some sort of test or a random chance to have your drive remain intact. Given how WoD works, depending on the severity of your death, you might be reduced to a single chance die or something.

As to the rebuild, you'd have to mathematically work out if your attributes are still fair, and maybe suffer some sort of derangement or loss of XP.

Whatever new shell you got would just feel...WRONG, for a long while. After living in a given shell for X decades, you've got all the drivers properly tuned just the way you like them, and moving to a new shell is jarring and frustrating, especially if its a different model. Which is why most robots are loath to trade up their bodies; they'd rather pimp out the one they already have.
We can only hope Clarke learned how to ATATATATATATATA hard enough to blow up a tank in the time between we last saw him and when he comes charging in.

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Just a friendly reminder...
Wait, shit. Does anyone have a screencap of the thread after 15? Cause I do not remember that happening after 15, which is the only one that's archived.
thread 15.5

The archive gets screwy in December and puts it at the top.
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Oh shit...be prepared for some heavy nastiness. I teared up just a little bit at the end, when I was writing it.

Sigh...as an FYI girls are really mean, and most people kind of suck. I tend to surround myself with smart, entertaining people like myself (ego alert). Then I go out at meet "normal" people and realize how much normal people suck.

The ending to the last session was a real tear jerker. First time a quest made me feel sad.
On another note, what the heck are FYI gilrs?
FYI, as in For Your Information. It's a heads-up, a tidbit of information.
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Bumbing with bots.
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glockatron bump
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hmmm. Well, I'm going to save all this and redo the thread later in a more stylish fashion along with some actual content based on me reading some more WoD books, like promethean and so forth.

Also, I thought of a "civilian" brute shell:

Real-Steel style Boxer robot. Possibly one with a faulty speaker that makes it all scratchy and slurry. Or one that was bought second-hand for use as a farmhand, and is thus full of folksy wisdom and likes animals and so forth.

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