make that bitch come to us

File: 1353196002350.jpg-(171 KB, 640x480, Saracen city.jpg)

>>21626407
You begin walking forward to greet your father, but you stop, feeling at unease. Despite your status as a bastard, he gave you a life other than that of sergeant in the Order. You are his ultimate sin, but you're also his pride and joy.

That said, you're the son of a bitch that captured Damascus, not him. He can come to you, you decide. So you stand there and wait, as the sun sinks lower into the western sky. And finally, Raymond du Puy de Provence, Grandmaster, arrives. With him is an escort of thirty of the best Hospitallers in the order, several of which thrashed you as a child for stealing from them.

Raymond dismounts, strides to you, and stands expectantly. You kneel, he extends a hand, and you kiss the ring of his office. "Rise, Willie. We won't be formal here today." You do so, but are silent, hoping he'll comment on your achievement. To your silent glee, he does so.

"Damascus. An independent city. Well, it WAS. Good job, Willie. When I sent you with the army, I expected you to sit back and learn, not take charge. Although... Did you plan Thierry dying?" When you shake your head, he nods, as if confirming something to himself.

"Da? What are you going to do with me?"

"Willie... I'm letting you take the men you had in the city and march on the Saracen army, and then from there, you'll march on Edessa." Oh. You can do that. You'll crush the Saracens, and then capture Edessa. Simple. So decided, you nod in return, and then ask him a question.

"Will I be allowed to keep Damascus?" Your father considers it for a moment, and then says yes. You can see the gears in his mind turning in his eyes as he thinks about something, and then he adds, as if an afterthought, "I'll also be recognizing you as my heir."
(1/2)

>>21627301
(2/2)
"Thank you, father." You almost can't breathe. For twenty years, you've been a bastard, not worth the spit upon an urchin's lip. Grinning delightedly, you hug the old bastard, and it's all he can do not to hug you back. Smiling back at you, as the escort can't see his face, he allows for one more small sign of approval.

"I'm proud of you." And suddenly, attacking a defended wall at the head of a group of religious fanatics, risking your guts and neck for no probable gain... It's all worth it. Your father, and you can proclaim that from the tallest towers in Christendom now, is proud of you.

As your father and the escort brought an extra horse for you, you ride back to Damascus, basking in the glow of fatherly approval, glory, and youthful delight. Repressed, however, are the butterflies in your stomach. Not only will you lead men into battle, but then you'll begin the siege of another city. You've also arrived back at Damascus with the last of the day's light, and lamps begin lighting up, and soon the city is glittering.

>Do you return to the palace you've claimed as your own and celebrate with your troops?
>Find a tavern and get stinking drunk?
>Try to find a bed where you won't be found and sleep?

>>21627422

We're going to be marching with these boys soon, we'll be fighting right besides them and giving them orders to kill or die.

Time to motivate the fuck outta them and get them ready for more war.

[x]Return to the Palace, give the troops what seems like good R&R party, but what is really a "GET READY FOR MORE" party.

File: 1353203305891.jpg-(117 KB, 582x850, Asherah-Aine, 2.jpg)

>>21627422

You will return to your palace and leave your father to his business. There's something you need to do. And it involves booze, your men, and as many prostitutes as you can buy for them.

As soon as your vassal, Robert, and your captains, Pierre and Guy are assembled, with Sergio the Italian siege engineer, you inform them of the plan for tonight.

"It's simple, guys. We're all going to get rip-roaring drunk, find some prostitutes, and then we're going to party until the dawn finds us puking our guts up. Got it?" They nod grimly, knowing why exactly you're going to spend this much money on one night of revelry.

"Pierre, you find all the ale you can. Guy, your job is to contact all the madams in the city and have them send their girls our way. Sergio, find some of that delicious Italian wine I know you've got hidden away. Robert? I need you to find a few good men that don't drink and have them ensure we don't fire the city. Gentlemen, we march tomorrow night. We'll surprise the Saracens in their night camp, slaughter them, and then march through the night to Edessa, where we'll capture it, and then figure out what to do." They nod, and then leave you to yourself, alone in your room.

Someone, you think Marie, had the bed made and food delivered for you. You fall to with a will, but are interrupted by a voice.

"My sister says you lead a charge into a Saracen shield wall." You roll your eyes and continue eating, ignoring Aine.

"My sister also says that you're marching for Edessa after defeating the Saracen army. That's overly confident, isn't it?" (1/2)

>>21628773
"It's only overly confident if we get beat. I don't plan on losing, Aine. Losing isn't what I know how to do." You're slightly drunk, you're hungry, and you're going to lose good men within the week. You are not in the mood to deal with goddesses and their games.

"Someone's annoyed."

>"You're goddamned right I am. I'm going to lose good men within the fucking week, and I'm not in the mood for your shit."
>"No shit, Inquisitor."
>"Gee, I wonder why."

>>21628781
>no shit, Inquisitor

If these "goddesses" aren't going to be more direct with what they want, we don't have time for them. She can speak her mind or fuck right off

>>21628781

Aine

The Goddess of Obviousness

Is there a reason she's come to bother us or is there REALLY nothing better for a Goddess to do in this world?

>>21628781
>"You're goddamned right I am. I'm going to lose good men within the fucking week, and I'm not in the mood for your shit."

Also: finally caught up

did we lose OP?

>>21629277
No. I'm trying to figure out what to do since we don't have a damned consenus.

>>21629292
well really at this current juncture does our answer even matter?

>>21629306
I'm guessing it will influence her opinion of us. I think we need to take a hard line approach to these two. We are a mortal with mortal concerns first. They clearly want something from us so its incumbent on them to explain what it is.

Maybe a combo of options 1 & 2. We have concern for our men but the tone needs to be set.

>>21628781
>"You're goddamned right I am. I'm going to lose good men within the fucking week, and I'm not in the mood for your shit."

>>21629056
>>21629374
>>21629456

I'll support the first option

>>21628773
You are William MacMahon of Damascus, and you are sick of goddesses and their shit, and you act on this anger.

"Yeah, no fucking shit. I'm going to order men to their deaths within a week, if not by tomorrow night. Men I know are going to die screaming for their mother or lover, and there'll be nothing I can do for them. They're going to lay broken on the ground, unable to move, too weak to end it themselves, and beg for water. If we win, we're going to make them as comfortable as possible while they die, while we finish off the Saracens in the exact same way. I'm going to sit next to dying men and tell them they'll live, and then they'll die sometime soon. I'm sorry, Aine, but unless you have something legitimately pressing, I have a dirty boogy to get down on and drink myself senseless with my men."

She appears taken back by your vitriol, but recovers admirably, and damn does she have a fine ass, you silently notice.

"I'm going to put it bluntly, MacMahon. Islam and Christianity's war here on Earth reflect a war elsewhere, and quite strangely, victories here equal victories in the elsewhere. I believe your father is going to release you from your vows and marry you to Count Thierry's daughter that he left."

>"Oh. Uh. Thanks for the information?"
>"I'm concerned about this why?"
>Other, write-in.

>>21629513
"I'm concerned about this why?"

>>21629513
"I'm concerned about this why?"

I mean, we still get Damascus and be our own master. I dont see the downside....unless she is crazy or something

>>21629624
exactly we get damascus and have our own army of trained experienced soldiers, we can be a king in our own right.

>>21629513

>I'm concerned about this why?

Also, are heroes here reflect over there? Is there some baddass version of me walking around in your world fucking bitches and taking castles?

>>21629513
NOPE

WE LOVE BEING IN THE KNIGHTS

AND FUCK YOU PAGAN

>>21629513
"I'm concerned about this why?"
>What ELSE does she know?
>What other outfits does she and her sister have?
>Please don't flash me, I am Catholic

Why do they choose such whorish outfits?

Clearly they are no gods.

>>21629513
Disregard goddess.

Reflect on scripture.

>>21629771
Exactly. The LORD is the only one we care for, not some harlots who talk big and do nothing.

>>21629513
And why is this news concerning?

>>21629771
>Discuss Goddess' armor with them, question why they are not wearing proper plate

File: 1353209138324.jpg-(297 KB, 501x825, FemaleRoyal6.jpg)

>>21629513
"I'm concerned about this why? I get Damascus, I get my army. If I want to, which I might, I could carve another Crusader state out of the Seljuks and Sarace-" and then before you can continue, a nail is driven into your skull, splitting your brain in two and driving you to the floor.

IT IS YOUR CONCERN WILLIAM MACMAHON BECAUSE I DEEM IT SO.

And then you're sitting at the desk in your room again, Aine sitting on it next to you, this time in full plate.

"Your concern, MacMahon, is shattering the armies of Islam and spreading fire and salt to their nations." Despite this proof of their power, you are still skeptically unafraid.

>Do you continue to question her?
>Do you ignore her and leave?
>Other?

>>21630028

>You are still unafraid

Man, we are such a badass

Welp, time to do the same shit we did to her sister

>Ignore her

She'll eventually tell us what we want, just like her sister did.

>>21630066
Not entirely sure if good idea...

>>21630028
>>Do you continue to question her?

>>21630118

IT WORKED ON HER SISTER

IT IF AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT

>>21630122
meh i dunno ask what she wants without fucking going all mystical and shit, if she can't give us that then fuck her shit leave.

>>21630028
"I answer to my father and the Lord God, and no other. If you wish me to do what I am already doing and call that orders, you may, but if you wish anything else you will need to give me incentive. And I do not respond kindly to threats. In short, your will matters to me as much as that of the meanest donkey."

Actually, how hot is thierrys daughter?
Not asking the goddess, of course.

>>21630028
>Do you continue to question her?
>what the shit was that
>...How many outfits DO you have?
>Perhaps you might clothe thyself as a nun or a princess nun or nun princess?

>>21630376
>OR
>Ask about that shrine. How long has it been there?

>>21630028

You stand, turn, and flop on your bed, where a Bible sits under a candle on a little table next to the bed. You open it to the Book of Job. Despite not having suffered as much as the oft put upon Job, you feel a sort of kinship with him. Ignoring Asherah worked. With any luck, and you are fairly luck, Aine will move to the same tune.

And true to form, she does. "MacMahon. The destruction of Islam is vital to the continued existence of a free Damascus." Nothing new there. Trying to remember if you had ever seen Thierry's daughter, you do! She was pretty, in a home-body sort of way. Tired of waiting, your patience defeated earlier by Asherah, you finally snap, roll off the bed, and leap across the room, pinning her against the wall.

"I am sick of this shit. I answer to the Lord God, the Holy Pontiff, and my father. Ordering me to slaughter infidels does nothing other than try my patience, which has broken. What did you do to me, how the Hell do you change clothes like that, and why the fuck is there a pagan shrine in the cellar of this place?" (1/2)

>>21630512
>stupid sexy Holy Pontiff

File: 1353212122297.png-(390 KB, 565x800, FemaleRoyal, 2.png)

>>21630512
"There's a pagan shrine in your cellar because this is the site of an ancient holy place. I simply FORCED you to listen, as you're a stubborn ass, and I'm able to change clothes like that because I am a goddess, and my physical form's garb is a simple manifestation of power. Now, take your hands from me, MacMahon, and sit." If her clothes are a simple manifestation of power, and she can sense mood changes... you think to yourself, would she detect thoughts of being dressed in the Holy Pontiff's garb, but done up as though it were a street-walker's 'work' clothes.

To your surprise, her clothing shifts in response and is, in fact, the Holy Pontiff's clothing. Although... more risque. Aine is now struggling to speak in surprise, and her lack of concentration doesn't allow her to shift clothes once more. Luckily for you, you're still wearing your coat of mail.

>Do you steal a kiss and run like mad?
>Do you let go and step back a safe distance?
>Other?

>>21630704

>Let go and safe distance

While glorious, we may need to defend ourselves very soon.

Don't go running yet though, there's still somethings we'd like to know.

For one, why do these two goddesses keep bothering us? Do they WANT us to do something or are they just going to keep telling us what we already know.

>>21630704
>Smirk at the little victories
>Don't stare at her ass (NOTHING AT ALL)
>Ask about holy shrine

>>21630704
"Ah, do you know what the Lord God says about holy shrines? It isn't a friendly sentiment, to be clear."

>>21630733
>Ask about DESTROY ISLAM thing
>Try very hard not to imagine dirtier outfits or the Staypuff Marshmallow Man

>>21630704
You start stepping back from Aine at the same time you let go of her arms, and barely avoid a plate armored knee headed for your crotch. Smirking with your victory, small as it is, you finally ask the question that's been bothering you for quite a while now.

"Why in the Hell do you two keep harassing me? I just want to survive the Crusades and kick back in my city, maybe with a woman or two, and some wine."

"We're harassing you because this land used to be ours! We would like it back! If not for our followers, then at least so the Moslems won't get it."

"But WHY is Islam so evil?"

"That would require five weeks to tell, and I don't feel like being in the same room with you for that long." Dohohohoho. Someone has feelings they aren't admitting, you think. You're doing your best not to stare at Aine's ass, but it is a losing battle, though one you continue to fight valiantly.

"Stop that, MacMahon! You need to concentrate."

"Well, I can't help but look at dat ass. I'll do my best to stop if you tell me WHY THERE'S A PAGAN SHRINE IN MY CELLAR. I COULD GET BURNT FOR THAT SHIT, YOU KNOW."

"Fine. It's there because when you took Damascus, you laid claim to it by right of conquest. You also laid claim to everyone inside as protector. Asherah and myself were inside the city when you captured it. Your duty as Lord of Damascus is to protect us as citizens of your city."

>What. In. The. Fuck.

>>21631617
>>What. In. The. Fuck.
>>What. In. The. Fuck.
>RAGE

>>21631617

Oh god, what.

We can't be the lord and protector of heretics.

That is heresy by command.

But first, who or what are we supposed to protect her from? The Muslims? The orders our father gave us will already assure that, won't it? Or does she want EVEN more from us?

>>21631617
>FUCK THAT YOU ARE NO CHRISTIANS
BUUUURRRRN IT ALL

>>21631696
Protect her from NTR

>>21631806

I actually like romances with a strong element of NTR.

So, yeah, let's NOT protect her from that.

>>21631831
Let's get like a hundred dudes, tie her to a stake, and burn her for heresy and witchcraft. Then burn the shrine.

It'll shut her up.

>>21631858

You know, she seems to be against the Muslims as much as we are.

It MIGHT be beneficial to keep her around to help us against said Muslims.

>>21631891
The enemy of my enemy is going to be a problem later.

Or now, if we get burned alive for housing filthy heathens. I reassert the idea of trying and finishing her at the soonest possible time. Preferably revealing her shrine publicly (then burning it) so as to cut the taint of association from us. The sooner we do it, the better.

And remember, Muslims may be filthy infidels, but at least they worship god in some form, whatever this painted temptress says.

>>21631967

Listen, we're in enemy territory, far from home, and with very little chance of recieiving reinforcements if asked for. On the other hand our enemy knows this land well, has the support of the local population, and is well armed to boot.

We need every advantage we can get.

Some delusional witch who believes herself to be a Goddess could be very useful in my opinion. She's already shown she has some power. Better to get her help now than risk trying to bring her down and discover she has enough power to subvert us anyways.

So it's like this, either she has enough power to subvert us, in which case it doesn't matter how much we want her to burn, or we have enough power to burn her at the stake, in which case we lose a potential advantage over our enemy.

>>21631967
Well, she might apparently be the Lord's sis-in-law, and there is a matter of dat ass.

We certainly need to be a quite angry at the idea of playing host to pagan goddesses, but we should also move on to the more practical matters. Why are they so important that we should let them stay? What could they do to help us, and why hadn't they done anything to help themselves?

>>21632030
>>21631967
>>21631891
>>21631858
>>21631831
So let me ask something here, with the caveat that I'm new and haven't read the archives.

Since her primary concern is the welfare of the land, we could simply put pressure on her to share information by telling her we're going to be whatever degree of equal we can in this undertaking or we'll start salting the earth and sabotaging the defenses now rather than having a slow death-march across the Levant ahead of us, because being a pawn is for suckers.

She gets closer to leveling us or we may as well go hand the key to the city to the nearest Kurd warlord and give the whole fucking thing up, there's pagans in Eastern Europe that probably don't have this kind of otherworldlybaggage and it's not like the Teutonic Knights have that one buttoned up.

>>21632114

We could use that against her, but again, she knows that we want to ensure the wellfare of the land as much as she does.

It is ours now, after all, it wouldn't do us much good if it was salted and pillaged.

So we could try, but she might call our bluff.

That said, why would she hide shit from us anyways? It's clear that what she wants and what we want are the same thing: Stablility of area and the defeat of the local muslims. She'll tell us what we need to know to do so. We just need to ask the right questions.

>>21631617
You are William MacMahon, Lord of Damascus, Knight Hospitaller, and now all of a sudden protector of two physical goddesses.

Before you're able to sputter your rage, it occurs to you. They hate the Moslem infidel almost as much as you do. But they're filthy heretics. But they hate Muslims. Everything aside it boils down to four simple factors: Asherah and Aine hate Muslims. You hate Muslims. Muslims hate you. You need the help. Despite your misgivings, you KNOW you need the help. Aine and Asherah may know the countryside; they may have worshippers in the countryside that could help you.

"Okay. I'm marching to meet a Saracen field army tomorrow night. From there, we march to Edessa to lay siege. Is there ANYTHING ELSE you could possibly ask?"

"Can we go with you? I don't trust your father, and the city may not be safe with him acting as regent for you while you're gone."

>Uh....
>"I suppose, although I do have my misgivings..."
>"Are you telling the whole truth?"
>"I get the feeling there's something else."

>>21632182
"You can come if you level with me. Aside from giving me useful information for the campaign, telling me the troubleswith the Islamic faith and whatever else you can will give me a far easier time granting you some respect."

>>21632182

>Are you going to tell the whole truth?
>I get the feeling there's something else.

Combination of those two.

She can come along if she agrees to answer all questions truthfully.

1. Why does she distrust father?
2. What help would they be on the march?
3. Once the Muslims are taken care of, who's to say you two and your followers won't turn on us?

>>21632030
Victory couched in temptation and sin in the Holy Lands is worse than a virtuous defeat. Let Skill and God decide our fate, not the witchery of heathen 'goddess'.

>>21632108
I suggest that we treat anything spoken by these women as lies until proven, especially regarding their claims of being related to the Lord.

And again, temptation leads to sin, sin leads to hell, hell sucks donkey nuts. Heaven is surely full of sexy angel ass, and we can get there by murdering infidels.

Who are, again, not as bad as pagans.

"Absolutely not, I am not getting burned for consorting with a pagan."

File: 1353218555925.jpg-(1.57 MB, 1456x3296, DamaszenerKlinge.jpg)

Incidentally, since we're in the city that gave its name to Damascus steel, have we gotten our hands on any kind of stock of Damascene weapons?

>>21632278
MC has actually paid the smiths of the city to replace all sword blades with said steel.

>>21632316
Good, but if there are existing weapons-caches to get our hands on now it might be better than waiting for all our swords to be replaced considering we're marching tomorrow.

File: 1353218747764.png-(14 KB, 497x501, Amazing.png)

>>21632316

All of them?

Oh, fuck yes...

>>21632325
ALL of the smiths, man. ALL of them. There's enough smiths to go around, and we've been here about a week.

>>21632327
You can get excited after you figure out a training system for getting thousands of crusaders to retrain with the crooked swords frequented by these fucking ragheads after our guys have been fighting with straight European swords for their entire lives.

>>21632371
Said smiths have been commissioned before to make European arming swords. MC wouldn't have had it done if he was unsure of it being successful.

>>21632407
That's pretty cool, then.

>>21632212
>>21632255
Seconding these. The woman can talk or she can sit in a cupboard for all we care, city rulers shouldn't be manipulated like this.

>>21632182

"Are you telling the whole truth, and I'm getting the feeling you're deliberately leaving something out. You want to stop playing games SOMETIME, Aine?" You're tired. You're hungry. You're more than slightly drunk by now. The entire time you've been talking to Aine, you've been hitting the wineskin. You're also being blunt.

"I'm telling you the whole truth, the entire truth. William, you have to believe me." You nod, as though accepting her words at face value.

"Answer three questions. Why do you distrust my father, what help would you two be on a forced march across a desert, and once the infidel scum are destroyed, what's halting your sister and yourself from ruining everything I've worked for?"

"Your father is... A complicated man, William, like most. However, he ordered an entire city put to the sword after they had surrendered because they hadn't surrendered by his time limit. Who can really trust a man like that? Asherah would help your men fight longer and march faster and harder. I'd be able to show you springs to water your men and horses. And our followers? Poor, illiterate tribesmen and goat herders in the hills and mountains of this land. No threat to anyone."

>Do you relent?
>Do you continue to question her further?

>>21632802
>>Do you continue to question her further?

never trust women.

>>21632802

Relent for a bit.

We should probably make some apperance at the party, let the men know who we are and that we actually care about them (Even if we really don't).

>Asherah would help your men fight longer and march faster and harder.
>I'd be able to show you springs to water your men and horses.

Nice. Good enough reason to bring them along in my book.

>>21632802
Nope. She's a pagan goddess, trust and her are in separate afterlives.

>>21632840
>ETERNAL DAMNATION is a good enough reason to bring them along
>PAGAN GODDESS giving your men poisoned water and feeding men the spirit of the devil

>>21632802
Tell her that if she wants to be seen as something more than an offense to your faith, she'd better tell you what precisely her primary complaint is about the fucking Moslems, because otherwise all you can do is see her and her sister as promoting a way of life that has little chance of defending itself from the better armed hordes of the enemy - they're just teaching people how to lie down and die, which you have trouble reconciling with your whole righteous conquest and defense of God's promised land thing.

>>21632840

Whoa, wait, just realized something.

Goddess of battle and shit, right?

Does Asherah's "blessing" only help our men or does it help everyone in the battle, including the Muslims? I'd rather a fight with normal men against normal men, than having some great superman free-for-all.

>>21632870
It's side specific. If Asherah deems to help the Crusaders, then mighty shall their sword arms be, undaunted shall they fight.

>>21632859
Yeah, because the Christian kings and nobles who were going to throw your fucking life away are such a better bet.

Grow up, nobody's that naive. Or did you want Thierry, count of Flanders, to fail to defend the city? Or the next one to come along like him?

We don't have to be as literal in our beliefs as the poor fucking fanatics that ran into Saracen spears to take Damascus.

>>21632859

BROTHER, WE CAN SPARE CHRISTIAN BLOOD FROM BEING SPILT IF WE DO THIS

STRONGER MEN TO BETTER DEFEND THEMSELVES

ACTUAL FUCKING WATER IN A LAND WITH VERY LITTLE

SO WHAT IF MACHAHON'S SOUL IS DAMNED, IT WILL HAVE SAVED COUNTLESS OTHERS FROM THE MUSLIM'S SWORD

>>21632831
>>21632868

I'm with these guys. Get the mystic bitch to tell you what the fuck her deal is, she's too much of an unknown to just waltz around with in battle.

>>21632889
>Christian
You just answered your question for me.

If you filth decide to consort with the pagan witch than upon the heads of thousands it rests. If ye do, ye best be cautious as balls. And not turn from God.

>>21632891
Satan is wily.

>>21632913
sure am glad not everyone in this thread is bent on being such a wretched jesus-freak about it

heres a board and some nails, go make like your jew martyr

>>21632960
You get the shit out of here with that kind of talk. I bet you're some kind of heretic scum, ain't ya?

>>21632960
what do you expect were roleplaying a crusader during the crusades get used to it. Hell play along but in a way that will actually complete the objectives that will help us the most.

>>21632983
>2012
>not portraying a crusader in the holy land who has been given short shrift by his alleged leaders and treated as a bastard all his life as a war-hardened bastard capable of harboring some cynicism in the affairs of christendom
>maintaining that there are pagan goddesses active in your story that can grant you huge benefits

I SHIGGITY

>>21633003
Guys. I'm unsure if you're aware of the tactical situation. We march to fight a numerical superior foe tomorrow night. The night attack may help mitigate numbers, but the factor of superior numbers is still there. From there, we march to lay siege to Edessa. Without reinforcements. In practically entirely hostile territory. We're about to be up shit creek without a paddle. If damning one man's soul to save the lives and souls of thousands others will help, why not do it?

>>21633034
Other side might have pagan deities up their sleeve.

>>21632960
>Quest about crusaders
>Complaining about fanatical jesus-freaks
Man, its part of the show. You understand what this is about?

>>21633054
Because God will save us.

Obviously.

God and some good goddamn wits can do more than a hundred thousand men.

>>21632802
Just roll with it, hell if all that happens is we get damned then count ourselves blessed if we can save our men.

>>21633090
it's not the show I have a problem with, it's the lack of reasoned consistency

>>21633054
that's all well and good, but your main character is either possessed of multiple personality disorder or just badly written

you have him crashing the party at the king's own tent, looting the corpses of fellow christians who died in an ill-considered attack and getting on with rapists and murderers one minute and then suddenly above putting expediency over faith the next

if you plan on having any kind of large role played by these pagan mystery goddesses that has concerted action on their behalf involved, your guy could stand to actually consider this shit and make peace with it using the age-old method of syncretism rather than being a complete schizo

otherwise the quest just loses coherency while we play split personality willie

>>21632960
At least one of us must hold true to the One True Faith with zeal.

Especially as we deal with filthy heathen goddesses offering divine sponsorship. It's about a thank you and a pillar of salt away from worshiping false idols.

>>21633133
Yes, we must obviously all hold the same opinions.

Just consider me McMahon's religious conscience if it pleases you. He don't always listen, but I ain't shuttin up.

>>21633135
This is the Holy Land, which is all we need. The HOLY land, site of miraculous artifacts that have strange powers, practically a font of saints, et cetera. The whole thing can be waved aside by declaring them servants of the Lord and claiming that they offer you the power of white magic, which is historically referenced on numerous occasions to explain Christians pulling off shit that they by no means should have succeeded in attempting.

She is God's blessing, willing or otherwise.

>>21633158
if you're anything, you're his zealotry and intolerance

someone else can probably be his sanity, or his capacity to rationalize the crazy shit going on in front of him as so many christian missionaries have done

>>21633158

Alright, consider this. If we choose to accept any part of what we've seen of these beings as truth, which is debatable, then we understand that they're actually closely related to our God. Hell, Asherah's his woman, as was discussed in the last thread. It's paganistic, but whether it's actually religious immorality to make a deal with them is arguable.

>>21633190
If you wish. Know that we risk falling to heathenism and damning ourselves. I warn against it.

>>21633175
That is a point. It could be argued that God has put them in our path for a reason. But, they openly claim to be Pagan Goddesses, and if that isn't hellbound words I do not know what is.

But that is a reasonable argument never the less. I maintain that we should destroy them at the nearest occasion, but if we MUST use them then we must.

>>21633215
No, she claims to be his woman. She seems to want to drag God down to her level. Bah. Lies and mistruths. If it had a shred of truth attached the Pope would have taught it far and wide.

>>21632802

You're about to reply when Marie bursts into your room, crying. She flings herself at you, wrapping her arms around your midriff, and begins trying to sob out a story.

"The other girls.... They said... They said that the King's messenger found us in a state of disarray, as though... as though..!" She can't finish, but you understand quite clearly. It appears that Baldwin's messenger spread rumors. If the man lives, you'll have his head. For now, there's a young French woman clinging to you and sobbing. Glaring at Aine, and she glaring at you, you hug Marie back while gently trying to pry her fingers from your coat.

"Marie, we didn't DO anything. You fainted and I carried you to a bed. Baldwin's messenger is obviously attempting to do something unsavory, and as soon as I find him, I'll have his head."

After fifteen minutes work, you finally pry Marie off of you with a promise to have tea with her at some point in the future, barring your sudden and extremely unwelcome death at the end of a Saracen blade.

>Insane women dealt with for now.
>Go drink with your men?
>Go find X and talk to them about Y?

>>21633241
Go and find whatever passes for scholars and see if you can pull together some information on whose forces you're going to be fighting and how they tend to behave in battle, in terms of daring and tactics. Maybe someone knows about the general you're going to face.

>>21633241

Find Sergio

Discuss what, if any heavy siege equipment we'll be bring with us and if we can possibly make some more when/if we make it to where we're going.

Then start drinking with our men.

To be honest I say let her have the chance but by God if she and her sister lead our men to their deaths be poison, blade, or heathenism then she and all she knows will burn in righteous FIRE!

>>21633241
this :>>21633275

>>21633239
Syncretism. SYNCRETISM. The claim that she is not what she must be - a servant of the Lord, having any power at all within His eternal creation - can be a test of faith, which we would have been failing with our boyish dickery, or a pointed statement that we are insufficiently worthy to understand, but nevertheless - there are pagan traditions that the church has adopted including the Latin mass and all the trappings and accouterments of Roman priests.

The Pope, who sits astride the throne of St. Peter and is therefore infallible, says this is acceptable. All his legitimate predecessors say the same. Ergo it is acceptable or they were all antipopes all the way back to the first one.

Your move, zealot.

Drink and be merry at this rate all the booze will be gone! Not to mention that its probably getting late so less time for the party!

>>21633268
>>21633275
these

Well, so far I think MC hasn't been that zealous. He certainly doesn't think much about faith - he sees himself differently from the fanatics, and while he uses "infidels" as the main reason to kill those guys, that seems to be just a simple justification. Not that he's completely cynical, but it seems that reading a pagan bible is enough to make his heart sway a little.

This is just the way I see it, but I think it's pretty much established that MC is more concerned with this life than the next - his own and his men's well-being, power, glory, wine, and women. It's prolly already too late to turn the goddesses down and/or driving them out of town, especially since they're likely to be useful to his goals. It makes more sense for him to ally with them, if only temporarily.

That said, relent a bit, but tell her that we'll be putting them under our close watch.

>>21633312
Yes, there were certain pagan traditions now accepted in the church. Why? Because they were stolen from GOD! Or at least pleasing to him. Even the unholy can do it right occasionally.

More importantly, just because it turned out SOME pagan traditions were in fact good christian practice, doesn't mean accepting the aid of fucking outright supposed goddesses is alright. I mean, just acknowledging her existence is a problem. It effectively turns God laying with Mary into adultery, which is problematic theologically, for one.

>>21633408
The testament of Christ is the fulfillment of the Jewish faith and the inheritance of the covenant of Canaan.

The Jewish texts speak of the female form (also translated as 'shadow side,' the source of the modern conception of Angels) of God being separated from the rest of him.

This is the closest thing we have to a winner when it comes to a manifestation of that, and she's empowering us and speaking of the true lord. That she is mentioning a false set of beliefs about Christ, et cetera, could simply speak of mankind's poor understanding of the mystery of divinity, which by its very nature is beyond comprehension.

And you wanted to burn her holy text, which makes you the inadvertently heretical edgy daredevil circuit in McMahon's brain. The one that makes him want to graffiti on the church walls because Jesus was a rebel against authority, man.

>>21633456
Throw in the entire basis of the older faith being the reunification of Jehova's separate facets (literally the culmination of the faith) and it's kind of a lock.

>>21633456
That seems like a big stretch considering how she has been acting. It's incredibly non-divine, which implies lies and mistruths on her part more than actual divinity.

Frankly, I'm at a lose, we need to interrogate this woman/supposed Wife of God in order to learn of her religious views, so we can find if they match what the Pope and the Bible preach. Because really, we cannot continue this argument with any actual progress until we've ascertained her actual divinity/connection to the LORD.

>>21633408
>god lying with mary
>adultery

God creating life is hardly adulterous, especially given that he sent Gabriel to bestow holy grace on Mary, an aspect of the afore-mentioned 'shadow side.'

>>21633501
The Pope decrees different policies based on the needs of Christendom at any given moment. One of them, however, is that the Vatican has more authority than a jumped-up Hospitallier in judging whether or not an ancient and powerful presence is divine, and another is not to randomly burn potential relics when trying to recover the holy land.

However, what is it you want to ask the wife of Jehova? Remember, God reveals what he wills. There are lost gospels and testaments and apocrypha and all kinds of crap that are or are not included in the canon at the whim of one Pope over another, and even if this is interpreted as the divine will revealing some things but not others when deemed appropriate all it means is that man does not know everything.

If this is an added revelation and we refuse it out of hand, we're little more than Thomas demanding to touch the wounds of Christ upon seeing him emerge, alive, after being killed by the Romans.

>>21633573
And if she is a wily trap by Satan or a witch trying to fool or tempt us? She's been amazingly obsessed with us (a mortal man) AND extremely bad at getting things done. Just because God works in mysterious ways doesn't mean that we should accept every bloody thing that comes our way. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, as you say, and it is not our place to assume this wench IS the Wife of God. Until a major religious official, learned and endowed with authority by the Pope (and through him, God) decrees that this woman is actually divine rather than just a cunning liar, we must be wary of her.

Ha, who is to say that she did not speak the same, sweet lies into the ears of the Muslim ruler of Damascus? After all, we did discover her pagan book and her shrine in his very palace, and she is by no means stealthy.

And, to be frank, she speaks of God as a man, near her equal, and that makes me very wary. Even the greatest angels give God his supreme due.

If the rest of McMahon's mind says we must consort with her, we will, but I shall speak caution regardless.

>>21633573
oh yes, forgot, but I do concede the point of Mary.

>>21633241
You are William MacMahon, Knight Hospitaller, Lord of Damascus, and you've been word-fencing with goddesses, comforting French maids, and trying not to disappoint your father, when you run across Sergio conversing with a scout Robert had sent out.

Letting the issue of the women Asherah and Aine rest for the moment, you turn your mind to more pressing concerns. Such as the siege train, the composition of the enemy, and the kind of roads leading to Edessa.

"Hey-a, boss-man. Jean and I are sharing a drink and discussing roads to where the Saracen army is. Tell him about it, Jean."

"All right, Sergio. Okay, boss. The Saracens number around twenty thousand. They're still encamped beyond where they beat our army. The road there is good, not great. At a best-case scenario, we'd only be able to get Sergio's catapults on it. The trebuchets'll need to either be broken down and transported behind us, or we build more at Edessa." Nodding approval, you ask Sergio what he thinks the prospects are about building siege engines at Edessa are.

"We'll probably be able to build, one, maybe two trebuchets. From there? It'll be the catapults and the battering ram work, with ladders, boss. We going to fight the Saracens, or you going to have us wait here for the all clear?"

>Do you want to have Sergio and his siege engines fight in the battle?
>Do you want Sergio and his siege engines to wait in Damascus for a rider to come back and inform the battle is won, before they move up and meet with the army again?

>>21633676
Eeeeh, I'm uncertain how useful the slow, cumbersome catapults would be in an actual battle.

On the other hand, Catapults require transporting, which might slow us down (making any retreat far more costly/difficult), and more importantly if we get all our engineers killed we're in trouble.

I say we leave them.

>>21633651
The angels are God's creations and subservient to him. Michael is described as the 'lesser YHWH,' and God speaks in scripture of being harried by Satan to a sore enough point that only Michael's arrival bolstered his power enough to prevail.

As for her being a satanic influence, the name of God does not rest easy on the lips of demons. It is a symbol of great power.

As for the Pope being the Vicar of Christ, that's fine and dandy except the Orthodox christians in constantinople have a long record of doing better than the Catholics, perhaps indicating better adherence to God's will. It's all a bit problematic, especially given the history of antipopes.

My point however is this: what will you ask of her to test the truth of her words? These presences can literally put thoughts in our heads, perhaps they can illustrate a state of divine grace in our minds and show us something of the rapture; that will certainly be of use. They can also go handle some Christian relics and not burst into flames, holy water shouldn't be problematic, an excorcism shouldn't harm them - those I can think of. What have you got?

>>21633701
Can they fabricate some engines of war for use on the battlefield?

>>21633676

Sieges works won't be useful in an open battle (at least, not as useful as they are in a SIEGE), I'm worried about having them travel by themselves on the road... Damn arabian mounts are wily and the enemy is more than willing to have small units of them go on raids.

But, the risk to have them in at the battle is also great too.

I say we leave them behind until we defeat the army out there in open battle. Once that is done, we send a sizable guard back to escort the engineers, while the rest of the force moves to begin the siege.

Once the engineers join us, then the heavy fighting shall begin.

>>21633718
See, the problem with your argument is that you effectively stated you did not believe the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ. And then you sided with the fucking greeks. I am now of the opinion that we need a good anti-heresy Crusade in McMahon's head to root out this line of thought.

As for testing the Goddesses, the obvious answer is to find a servant of Christ, preferably a Bishop or some such, and get him to test her. As you said earlier, we are not fit to judge her claims ourselves, but a servant of Christ could. We'd need a good priest, firm in his faith though.

Otherwise relics are a decent idea, if we dare let her near such holy items.

Keep the siege engines back, we lose those it will be p.i.t.a to get any lumber to build new ones. Not to mention that if we did bring they to the open terrain fight where the enemy will most likely just step to the side of the incoming fire we could wind up hitting our own men. Chucking rocks is good and dandy when the target is a huge wall of stone several meters high and wide not so much when trying to hit small 5-6 meter tall people who can move.

>>21633787
Whether a given pope is or is not acting as the Vicar of Christ depends on that pope legitimately executing his office. Or are men incapable of failure? Remember, the Pope is only infallible while on the Throne of St. Peter.

However, exhausting the possibilities here is kind of important given that we might have a divine presence right in front of us. At this point, everything's up for grabs.

I take umbrage with the idea that considering the example of Constantinople is a bad thing, given the Papacy's disinterest in excluding them from Christendom in any real way. The entire great schism has the ungainly reek of church politics on it.

>>21633676
Thinking it over swiftly, you come to your decision. "You'll stay here, Sergio. Once we win the battle, I send a sizable escort force to bring you up to Edessa. The rest of the army and my self will move ahead and begin the siege of Edessa. Go and get drunk, gentlemen. You deserve it, and a woman." Laughing, they escape your clutches and head for the hall, where as many men as can be packed in there are drinking.

It's time to make an appearance there yourself, you figure. Making your way to the hall, you slap backs, shake hands, exchange hugs, and share words with the men staggering for beds or a chamberpot. Finally, you're in the hall. You climb onto a table and call for silence. Speech time.

>Caring speech?
>Kill the bastards speech?
>Other, write-in?

>>21633831
I speak of the Greeks not on religious matters, despite my usual obsession with that, but rather as a part of McMahon's consciousness, and I can tell you from being here for a bit, the greeks can fuck off.

McMahon indicated is rather low opinion of the Greeks a thread or 2 back.

>>21633866
Kill the bastards. We're crusaders, best to go with what works.

>>21633787
>this new divine presence being the wife of God might be the start of an entirely new revelation
>find someone mired in the canon and church law to examine her, that'll yield the truth
>they'd be qualified to make a pronouncement on this because they're definitely not a land-hungry asshole like the kings that refused to reward a true soldier of Christ like ourselves with land and title

Bishops aplenty run their demesnes just like petty lords. Their legitimacy when it comes to determining the nature of such things is more than in question, especially given the wars and rebellions they have sparked for no particularly good reason. More than a few have been outlawed as heretics over the centuries of the Church's history in Europe alone.

>>21633866

>Other

A "You've done good men, but there's still more to do" kind of speech.

Praise them for what they've done, tell them what lies ahead, and remind them that we wouldn't rather be at the head of any other army in world right now.

>>21633866
>>Kill the bastards speech

It's what we're good at, let's stick to that.

>>21633874
That was the Romans.

>>21633898
>>21633887
>>21633880
>>21633866
Drafting something that combines these.

>>21633883
No doubt, but that does not invalidate their positon.

After all, here we are in the Holy Land itself, fighting, at least in part, for God and our Souls, on the Pope's spiritual dollar. None are better qualified than a zealous bishop.

>>21633900
Greeks and Romans, not too much difference. Both are Orthodox, both slit nostrils and put out eyes.

>>21633929
>romans
>orthodox
>greeks and romans, not much difference

Yeah, no.

>>21633905
"Soldiers of God, hear me! I address you now from the wall of Damascus, a mere dream to us but a few years ago! Remember this day, your days here - and remember that God smiles on our undertaking, on your work. Bloody though it may have been, we are doing the will of our Lord - and we have earned his shining approval!"

"Know that we are not finished. Though we have gained much, though we have taken ground in the Holy Land, taken much in provisions and funds from the enemy - " (make some gestures to soldiers having a binge here, if a nearby barrel of booze is present) " - we are not nearly through in our effort. Even now the smiths of this city are crafting for us the gift of the Levantine shores - the Damascene steel we shall try in the sides of our enemy on the road ahead. Let their blood earn our next laurel! Let your hope for enrichment rest on the field, for tomorrow we march to further God's aim! LET THEM FEEL CHRISTIAN FURY, COME SUNDOWN NEXT!"

>>21633944
Oh fuck me, right, I assumed he was referring to them as Romans because Greeks are a part of the Eastern Roman Empire, as no one actually called them Byzantines at the time.

Well shit, my bad there.

>>21633929
The most zealous of Bishops are often the most egregious of heretics.

>>21633966
Continued.

"Remember, brothers, how we took these walls - and gained much in their taking. Remember it in your revels tonight, and on your march tomorrow - for I have thrown you a fine feast today, and will do so again. No other army in Christendom has managed what we have, together - and no other army is worthy of your blades! Go then, to your earned celebration, and taste the fruit of God's victory and ours. Go and gain hunger for what lies ahead, for what we shall win TOGETHER. DEUS VULT, MY BROTHERS."

>>21634019
>>21633966
That's all I got. What do people think?

>>21633986
Obviously everyone is a heretic, listening to you naysayers. Have faith in God and his servants. They'll know the answer. And if he's a lying, cheating wretch as the thread assumes, throw him out and find a good one!

>>21634034
Our father is one such servant, and the only one that has recognized our efforts for what they're worth.

So that's something to think about.

>>21634019

"PERSIH THE MAN WHO'S MIND IS BACKWARD NOW... GOD'S WILL MY LIEGE, WOULD YOU AND I ALONE, COULD FIGHT THIS ROYAL BATTLE!"

>>21634064
We can definitely add that onto the end. Nice touch.

>>21633866

"Men, I'm not going to lie to you. You've done fucking fantastic! Damascus is ours, and all that stands between us and Edessa and more riches there? Twenty-thousand Saracen scum. That said, I won't lie to you. The fight will be hard. It'll be long, it'll be hot, and it'll be bloody, and then we'll march to Edessa and do it all over again.

Some of you will die. I probably will. But with the blessings of our Holy Father, the Lord God, we shall prevail. When you fight tomorrow night, I'm not asking you to fight for god, or country, or any of that. I ask that you fight to protect the man next to you, shedding his blood to protect you. We are not English or French or Scots or Italian or Spanish or Polish or German. We are Christians. We are God's chosen, and this land shall quake when we march!"

This concludes Chapter Three. Thank you, elegan/tg/entlemen. I WILL be answering questions, if they're asked.

>>21634080
Or I guess we can also not use the write-in.

>>21634090
SORRY GUYS. I'll use all of it before the battle in Chapter Four.

>>21634080
How much can we have clever ideas about technology and politics?

Like if we decided to ask the goddesses for some blueprints to effective Roman field ballista to make decent weapons we can use in combat, or if we decided to found an unofficial banking house for the Hospitalliers like the Templars created, or play the Genoese and Venetian sailors against each other to get better naval support/prices on transport or something, is that within the scope of the quest?

>>21634080
When do you expect we'll have the next thread?

>>21634158
Next thread will be as soon as I feel the opening post is ready. Which'll be sometime soon. Like, say, next forty minutes or so, soon.

>>21634146
If you guys can figure out an effective way to get around the Templars' lock on banking, do it! MC has a friend back in Jerusalem that's good with numbers.

Crusader Quest, man. The Second Crusade has been called, and so far, it's been decently successful. If getting the Genoese and Venetians to stop sucking all the dick, in order to get better naval support and prices is deemed a goal by /tg/, then I'll try to fit it in.

Field ballista wise, I'm pretty sure detente between the goddess ladies and MC would have to happen first. MC is unsure of them as actual figures of divinity, and they're unsure of him as an effective protector and lord of Damascus.

>>21634237
So if the players figure out a way to get our Hospitallier to have a clever idea well ahead of its time on how to put together something, we can have said advancement? I mean, we're not going to get away with the guy dreaming up steam engines for no apparent reason, but possibly he could think of a tactic ahead of its time or something.

>>21634258
Quite. I'm fairly certain /tg/ can limit itself fairly well.

>>21634280
What are our relations like with the Teutonic Knights and the Templars on an organizational level? Being that William is now the heir of the leader of the Hospitalliers, I guess we should have some idea about that.

What other holdings do the Hospitalliers have in the region, anything with a seacoast?

>>21634378
The Hospitallers own dockspace in the ports connected to Antioch and Acre. They own several castles connected directly to the sea, as well as a fairly decent sized warfleet. They use that to harass and wreck Seljuk and Saracen shipping.

Our relations with the Teutons are negligible, seeing as they haven't been founded yet. The Templars are our rivals, but when there's Saracens to kill, we put that aside in favor of cool, but cooperative, cooperation..

>>21634158
Actually I lied. :c I'm tired as fuck and can barely see straight. I'll boot up Chapter Four as soon as I get up tomorrow morning.