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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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In July, for the hell of it, I decided to make a Fate/Stay Night RPG based on the Warhammer RP System for the hell of it and because the people I play with are all very familiar with the system. It uses the Only War system since it's the most easily modifiable. I edited it a few days ago. Some things were seriously fucked. But they've been fixed and I made the "Luck" stat more relevant by having it kind of work like Uncanny Luck in AdEva.

Servants start at 10k XP. They can hit some crazy characteristic scores, but it's nowhere near as bad as when I first made this. The starting characteristics for each class is actually equal to their listed template parameters, -10 for the sake of representing Servants that may be weaker in that particular spot. I couldn't make complete rules for Noble Phantasms, BUT I gave a rough fluff/crunch guideline for pricing them.

Masters are split between three specialties: Normals, Maguses and Magic-Users. Normals are pretty much non-maguses. Their Mana is shit and they can't Mana Transfer during combat, but they get extra XP and more flexibility in aptitudes. Magic-Users are a sort of middle-man. They're great if you specialize in one field but the doubled prices for powers outside it limits you. Maguses are the most rigid stat wise but are the 'best' when it comes to magic.

Someone I know will actually be running with this in the near future. I'd appreciate any balance concerns and suggestions on adding more stuff.
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interesting, i may have to try this
Well, please send any feedback to me.

I'm thinking of setting up pointbuy for equipment rather than the GM just winging it. Obviously the GMs could just ignore it if they wanted to, but yeah.

It"ll probably be based on the logistics rating of different availabilities. This way, people can choose to use weapons from the book, rip them from the STALKER RPG or whatever.

One issue I have is representing non-Noble Phantasms for Servants. Should I allow a small pointbuy specifically for E->D rank not-Noble Phantasms?

It would represent anything from Sabers' armor to EMIYAs' bow. The stuff that aren't noble phantasms but are used by Servants anyway.
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Good luck on your quest to make this. I'm going to go drown my sorrows in liquor.
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I feel bad about this, but I read the fanfic before getting into F/SN. If I got into F/SN first, I don't know how much I would have been able to put up with the fact that the author didn't even play the VN. He's a great writer, but there is a lot of things that would bug me now if I had to read through it again.

I always imagined a pre-Counter Guardian EMIYA to look like this. Like an older version of the Fate/Extra EMIYA when he was alive.
I have some mixed feelings on this for choosing OW. On one hand, I think there's better suited systems. But...this seems to work so far, and WHRP fits the general glass cannon vibe that combat between Servants have. I like depth, but depth could be constraining for a game like this. But, it looks like NPs are just going to be winged, which are really the hardest things to quantify in a Fate/ RPG.
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Why so sad?

I was just starting to create this project, basically.

That's not really important though - I guess I'd better start with honest criticisms and suggestions for improvements.

First of all, while F/SN doesn't really make it clear, the Servant stat system basically works like this:

E Rank Strength = the Strength of 10 men
D Rank = 20 men
C Rank = 30 men
B Rank is 40, and A rank is 50.

A + sign next to the letter indicates the potential for the stat to be doubled in power under certain circumstances, like when it is daytime. There can be up to three + signs for a stat, and that means that the stat can be multiplied up to four times, which means that a B+++ would have the equivalent strength of (40 x 4) 160 men under the right conditions.

So even Caster, a Servant with E rank strength, is as strong as ten men. This is not necessarily indicative of the power each Servant had in their actual lifetimes, but rather due to the restrictions of the Servant system - each Servant is actually a Heroic Spirit inhabiting a prepared shell, not a true Heroic Spirit.

Representing this accurately using WHFRP would mean a lot of Unnatural stats.

As I was saying, Servants have absolutely ridiculous stats, as evidenced by them being able to fight while running up a bloody building. But this is not the only reason they're considered monsters. Since Servants are Heroic Spirits, which are low-level Divine Spirits, Servants are divine mysteries on par with that of Noble Phantasms. What this means, in function, is that only another mystery can hurt Servants, because they are Spirits, not actual physical beings.

I noticed that you made Servants immune to toxins and poisons and oxygen deprivation, but you could actually simply give them all From Beyond and Stuff of Nightmares to accomplish the same thing with less words. The only thing you'd have to do is make a note that psychic/holy are known as magic/holy in the setting.

Now, I know you included the double TB rule for non-magical attacks, but this doesn't do a fantastic job of conveying how impossible it is to hurt them with nonmagical things. I would recommend you give all Servants the Daemonic (30-60) trait, you can choose however much it is, but this is a much smoother way of making them effectively immune to nonmagical attacks.

As for the Luck stat, rather than using a thing from Adeva (terrible system, don't base anything off of it), I'd just give Servants a number of FP based on the rank of the stat, which cannot be used to burn to survive. Easy, right?


As for Noble Phantasms, you could easily take the BC rules for Daemon Weapons and apply them to be rules for Noble Phantasms. Obviously there's a lot of effects and stuff that can't be represented with those rules, but they do make a good basis for building NPs.

You could use a lot more spells, but that's something obvious and you already know that.

You know, I already statted up Saber and Lancer and Shirou for the sake of creating an example to base the character/Servant creation on. I could post them here for you to use as a reference, since I've decided to not continue my project.

Something else I dislike: the penalty to Masters for fighting Servants. It's unnecessary - Servants should have WS and BS at levels that Masters could never reach without a lifetime of training and a little magic on the side (like Kotomine, who could barely match a very weak Servant in direct combat).

Ah, that's all of my criticisms at the moment. Tell me if you want my character stat profiles - they're not designed with the same basics as your system, but maybe they can help me clarify what I mean.
I started a channel on suptg. #FateOW

Regarding the strength..I've heard the E-rank figure before, but how accurate are these stats to the VN? Is there a concrete example of what 'the strength of 10 men' is? Well, I just googled it. The highest confirmed, recorded record for squat weight is 1000lbs. The average amount an untrained 165lb human could squat is 110 pounds. So that world record is E-Rank.

Personally, I'd like it if it's *possible* Masters could defeat a Servant through /magical/ means like in the VN. Tohsaka would have killed Caster, someone from the Age of Gods using...what? 10 years of stockpiled jewels and reinforced muscles/kung fu? Soichiro(sp?) could have defeated Saber in the first encounter since he was not only a skilled assassin, but he was being reinforced by Caster. Shirou leeched off Archers' combat experience and managed to beat Gil because he could spam faster. Kirei Kotomine was able to put up a fight against Assassin.

Which is another thing. Is there actually an equivalent to Reinforcement in Only War? I don't remember. But that's very vital when looking at Servants vs Masters.

How would you represent the + modifiers for characteristics? Just a temporary boost they can do under certain conditions? Feel free to post them, please!

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Bump for RPG system with potential
I don't get what you mean by the WS/BS thing. In the WHRP system, you don't roll WS/BS against a persons dodge/parry. You roll WS/BS to see if you hit at all. If you pass, then the opponent has to expend a reaction and pass their dodge/parry roll. It's slightly more complicated with autofire and AoE weapons, but yeah.

(It's actually very easy to reach ridiculous target numbers with all the modifiers. 40BS doesn't look like a lot on the surface, but once you add those modifiers? Yeeah...that's one reason why I'm trying to avoid stat bloat.)

Sorry, I don't mean to question your knowledge on the system. You just gave me the impression BS/WS is measured against someones dodge/parry.

Regarding Luck, is there any reason why you don't like the dice subtraction thing? And personally, I don't like the idea of your character becoming less competent so he can survive--which is why I added lives.

I"ll definitely add variant rules, though. I absolutely hate the idea there's only one way to 'properly' play a system or game.
Meant to quote these, herp.

Anyway, I"ll look at those quotes. Feel free to get on IRC.


I also like the idea of Masters being able to defeat Servants through careful planning and magic, as Tohsaka nearly managed to do a few times. The problem is making the kinds of options needed to accomplish such a feat (a Reality Marble, or a type of Magic like Jewel Magic that can put a modern magus on par with a Heroic Spirit for a little bit) available for Masters during character creation.

Obviously, a Magus would fight Servants through versatility and clever uses of their powers/spells.

A Magic User like Shirou would have to do it using his specialized magic.

An Executor like Kotomine could do it simply by using his magic to Reinforce himself to Servant level stats, relying on smart fighting, his affinity for healing magic to keep himself at full health, and the numerous Conceptual Armaments that the Church provides its Executors to do it.

There's unfortunately no Reinforcement-like power in Only War, or any 40k WHRP system for that matter. However, it probably wouldn't be too hard to stat such a thing up.


Right, I understand why you'd want to avoid stat bloat. As for WS and BS, the thing is that nearly all Servants will have Lightning Attack or a long-range full auto option (Gil's GoB, Archer's UBW, etc.). Since the number of hits that land for full auto or lightning attack is determined by degrees of success, while the number of attacks that are evaded or blocked is determined by the degrees of success for the dodge or parry check, it makes a HUGE difference for every degree of success that is landed or dodged.

Well, Servants, being spirits, shouldn't be able to be wounded in a manner that weakens them permanently. As long as they can get access to prana for regeneration, they should be able to return to full condition (even Herakles could regenerate his stock of God Hand if he had enough time to absorb prana from Ilya). The point of having Luck determine the number of Fate Points would just be to allow for certain vital moments to go in a certain Servant's favor if they need it to. Separating FP and Burns is fine.

Looking over those traits...

I don't know if I want to give Servants complete Fear immunity. In part because of the Bravery skill, in part because even Servants froze up at the sight of that shadow thing in the HF route. I'd say that was a Fear (4) moment. This was at night in the park IIRC. Blood Loss immunity is valid. IIRC only 'lethal' attacks will truly kill a Servant and blood loss in WHRP involves dying *fast*. Stun, I'm not too sure about that. The Daemon Weapon and Daemonic bits are excellent ideas. I don't want to make NP creation too pre-set, but Daemon weapons are great inspiration for effects.

Any idea how to make it so Masters could win at least one fight against a Servant from chargen? Those Jewel bombs could easily be represented through starting equipment. I don't expect something all encompassing, but I'd like to have a few jotted down and get a rough guideline made.

My rough idea for Reinforcement is that it wouldn't consume mana, but would cap it while you're reinforcing a specific stat (Perception, Agility, Toughness, Strength).

Well giving Masters the option to pick advantages like having a Reality Marble (which is a nightmare to try and design stats for) or access to anti-spirit weaponry like Black Keys might be a good start to evening the odds. A much larger, expanded spell list for Maguses would also help.

Oh, and I do agree about the Fear thing, though Servants would logically be immune to Fear against anything that's not extraordinary like the Shadow. Perhaps such extraordinary creatures could have an exception in their profiles to denote the fact that even Heroic Spirits, or perhaps, especially Heroic Spirits would be particularly afraid of the Shadow/Angra Mainyu/what have you.
I"ll look at what kind of spells Fate/Extra has, seeing as how I can't find any for normal magecraft.
Yeah, could just note that HSs count as having 60 IP for purposes of Fear immunity.

That ought to work.
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No other anons want in on this?

>You will never become the bone of your sword
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>you will never get the opportunity to play as this glorious bastard

You could have stopped this, /tg/.

It's happening!
Well, I'm going to go to sleep. The channel will still be up and I"ll answer any PMs/questions when I wake up.

>Reinforcement: Lasts up until the order is completed or the scene ends. For example, if it’s “Kill Lancer”, it gets the effects when fighting Lancer. You may choose the following:
>implying the 'Kill Lancer' command isn't given by Lancer's master.
10 men being Servant strength always seemed to be too low to me.

But on the other hand, nothing non-spiritual can hurt Servants anyway. So they can do infinite harm to normal earthly things and suffer no return punishment. They could get hit by a nuke and it would do nothing.
10 men is E rank. E rank str is more or less reserved exclusively for Caster
Why wouldn't it when we're talking about activating a command seals?

And it really isn't that low when you look at the fighting ability of some Masters

Currently Playing as this glorious bastard in a m&m 3e campaign.
Though i don't think the rest of the party trusts me for some reason
Your forgetting Giles had rank D
The guy you're quoting is making a joke about the fact that both the 4th and 5th War Lancers were forced to kill themselves after a command seal was used by their respective masters (well, the 5th in the UBW route anyway).
Oh! Hurr. That's what I get for posting when I first wake up. .Lancer was pretty damn cool in UBW.

They really need to make an extended version of F/SN so we can see more of the other characters. I'd love:
-A route where you agree to ally with Shinji.
-Mind of Steel route.
-An EMIYA route.
-Ilyasviel route. I don't get why they cut it out if they were being serious in the Taiga Dojo. Yeah, the lolicon bit. They could still make the route without it, though. F/SN is good and successful enough that not ever route needs sex scenes.
Any Nasu work is better with the sex scenes though. Pure comedy gold.
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When Hollow/Atraxia comes out you will see alot more of Lancer. Translation is at 95%
Slight update. I forgot to note that Servants start with a 20 in all stats unless it's marked down otherwise. I changed the first paragraph for Servants.

I do intend on fixing the stats to account properly for the + and -. I just need to talk with anons on how I should go about that.

I added a paragraph about Noble Phantasms. I changed it so Servants get only 50 points for NPs as normal instead of 60. However, you get 10 points to spend on E->D rank Noble Phantasms. This will probably require tweaking. Right now, you can get one A+ NP, one B rank NP and 2 D rank NPs assuming you go for the most expensive NPs.

NPs in how much they cost in terms of Mana (basically your WP score) and whether they require you to spend a Fate Point will need tweaking.

There was also talk here and IRC about adding Assets/Drawbacks. Do you think the current Specialties are fine? Too broad? Too specific? As is, there's a few things that definitely can't be Specialty specific, such as Mystic Eyes/parts. I"ll make and post a To Do list soon.
In a Naruto based campaign I'm playing BOTH these bastards, fused into one.
-An EMIYA route.
-Ilyasviel route. I don't get why they cut it out if they were being serious in the Taiga Dojo. Yeah, the lolicon bit. They could still make the route without it, though. F/SN is good and successful enough that not ever route needs sex scenes.
Word of god says these are the same routes.
He started to become EMIYA when she died shortly after the war
Got a source? There's so much fanon and wild speculation that I have to be a bit skeptical. It makes sense with Nasu saying the Fate route had the highest chance of Shirou becoming EMIYA, though.
The fuck?
I remember reading about it on the Typemoon wiki, can't find it now.
Must have been a false source or something.
My bad.
The TM wiki is pretty infamous for having a lot of fanon/made up things. Don't take everything said on it as gospel.
The weakest servants can arm-wrestle ten men at the same time. The "at the same time" part is vital, since it means they can pretty much just rip off a single human's arm at the shoulder.
That's the weakest ones, and does not factor in noble phantasms and any special abilities they might have.
I"ll have to do these one at a time but I may as well list out everything.

To Do List:
-Fix the parameters for the +/- modifiers.
-Add more Nasu Magic. Mystic Parts, Mystic Eyes, Mystic Codes, Familiars, Shared Perception, Transference of Consciousness, Gradiation Air, Jewel Magecraft and some other things. Feel free to tell me if any of the magic I listed or http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Magic_Spells if those already have an existing Psyker power equivalent in Only War.
-Do equipment pointbuy for Masters.
-Expand on the existing archetypes by adding background traits, add some Assets/Drawbacks.
-Fiddle with Mana in regards to Ateliers.

-Should a '-' just be a middle-in-the road rank or what? The '-' was never actually explained IIRC.
-The '+' modifier in stats multiply a Servants power under certain circumstances. What are the certain circumstances? How do you think I should represent this? As Unnatural Characteristics? If I go that way..Unnatural Str for ST, Unnatural Ag for AG and...a higher Mana count and stuff if they have +Mana? I don't think there are too many powers where your WP bonus matters.
-How would you do a specific magic in Nasu?
-Is there anything you'd like to see added? Any variant rules?
-I want a second opinion on this. How do you like how Luck is currently handled?
>-Is there anything you'd like to see added? Any variant rules?
I'm not very familiar with Fate / Whatever besides watching the prequel anime Fate / Zero but I'd like to see a little more fluff, maybe something about the organisations present during the grail war(s) and rules for "commoners". Not to play commoners but if you're defining a servants base strength as strong enough to arm wrestle 10 men there should be some way to include those 10 men somehow in the rules.
This might not seem relevant but considering Riders abilties "horde rules" or something similar might be neccesary (and horde rules actually exist in the 40k RPG line)
I assumed a - was like a + but the other way around
E- would be under certain circumstances they are only 5x the strength of a normal person, or perhaps they just aren't fully E-rank.
It depends on the Hero to be honest. I don't remember it being expanded upon much.
Define specific magic, a specific spell, a specific school, what?
Alchemy, it exists, and it can create Homunculi. Also as an extra feat or something, Family Magics, things passed down a specific family line.
Anything magic related that may or may not exist within Only War as a Psychic Power.

Commoners would be 'Normals'. People who can't use magic. One advantage I already gave them over others is that they get complete freedom over Aptitudes and start with one more, which means they're the cheapest to advance.

Regarding the "Servants are ten times as strong as a human"...

Well, like I've said in this thread and on IRC, the WHRP is very vulnerable to becoming unwieldy and bloated. The fact it's D100 also creates a few 'issues'.

We're talking about making Servants deal 1d5/1d10+30 damage (assuming Servants get x10 SB) for just hitting, which means you have to inflate their wound pools. And then if you inflate their Mana....well, see how it can get messy? Right now, Daemonic (30) means a non-Servant would have to deal thirty damage /after/ Toughness Bonus & AP to take off any wounds, assuming it's a non-magical attack. It's not impossible, but you'd need a 6d10 attack on average, and considering you don't just get +D10s on RFs in OW/BC, that's very, very hard.

I'm not saying 'No' outright. I'm just saying it's something I can't add without giving some serious thought.

And..yeah. What Rider had in F/Z would definitely be statted as a Horde. I will probably stat Servants/Masters from canons. Like I said though, it'd be bad if I try to more rigidly define Noble Phantasms than I do now, since it means the player would have less to be creative about without asking the GM to BS/houserule a specific thing.
I'm going to re-organize F/OW into a folder with multiple pages. Here's the link to the Folder. I"ll be moving things around from the current page.


I"ll delete the previous posts. This should display the sidebar.
I'm playing as this bastard in Black Crusade.
I am watching this thread with interest.
Small update. I made some weapon groups. One friend of mine who is a big /k/ommando on ancient/medieval weapons. He statted out 60 different weapons. Unfortunately, they're in Italian right now. I"ll definitely add them and with permission, the guns the STALKER devs made in a separate section later. You"ll be perfectly free to just use weapons straight from the WHRP system. But if you want slightly more in-depth (not necessarily more complex) weapons because you like weapons, they"ll be there. I also made a 'Weapon Familiarity' talent as a middle man between being Trained and Untrained. And I made the Weapon Groups for non-exotic weapons.

Weapon Familarity
Tier: 1
Prerequisite: None
Aptitudes: General
Specializations: Basic Melee, Advanced Melee, Primtive Ranged, Small Arms, Support Weapons
Description: Maybe it's been decades since you last picked up a bow, or you only ever got to fire your uncles' shotgun every other year. You're familiar enough with the weapon to use it, but aren't proficient. Upon the purchasing of it, you only take -10 to your WS/BS score instead of -20. This talent always costs 100XP.
Fucking captcha.

Basic Melee: Improvised weapons, knives, maces, clubs and axes. Things that don't really require training to use relative to melee weapons.

Advanced melee: A group of weapons that aren't quite as intuitive to use and require some training. So far they only encompass Swords and Polearms.

Primitive Ranged: Any weapon that isn't a modern firearm. Due to the huge scale that encompasses everything from a throwing knife to a percussion cap rifle, it's suggested you mention which ones he's particularly familiar with. I'm not splitting them up into further groups.

Small Arms: Any contempory weapon used by an individual soldier. Pistol or Basic class weapons. E.g: Hand grenades, pistols, rifles etc.

Support Weapons: Any contemporary weapon that requires a crew of more than one soldier. Heavy or Mounted/Vehicle class weapons. E.g: Medium machine guns, anti-tank guns etc.

If you want, I can post the google-translated pastebin. But it probably isn't accurate. Anyway, for Exotic, one specialization will definitely be Keys of Providence. I need to do more researching to see what else would fall under it.
Thought I should post how I"ll do modifiers for parameters while I write up a summary of existing Psyker powers and RP. Not too sure how I"ll do it for NPs.

Plus and Minus Rank Modifiers:
Sometimes, a simple rank letter won't just describe the abilities of a Servant fully. Some may perform better (or worse) in certain specific conditions, such as broad daylight, underwater, while riding an animal or vehicle or using a particular method of attack or maneuver.

This is where the +/- modifiers come into play.

Plus Modifiers:
During Character Generation, with GM consultance, a player may deliberately "spend" five points of a characteristic to receive a conditional +10 modifier in another characteristic. The conditions in which this +10 modifier is avaiable should always be discussed with the GM and noted on the Servant Player Character's sheet. You may do this up to three times on a characteristic.

Minus Modifiers:
In some cases, a player might want a small permanent bonus in a characteristic. By receiving a conditional -10 modifier to a certain characteristic (as before, the particular condition in which this modifier is active should be discussed with the GM), the player can add a permanent +5 to another characteristic of his/her choice. You may do this up to three times on a characteristic.
>I decided to make a Fate/Stay Night RPG
>Fate/Shistain RPG
>Not a Nasuverse one since there are actually GOOD Nasuverse stories
God I fucking hate you people.
I personally agree - Nasuverse as a setting is far better than just sticking to Fate.

But I only did the Arcueid route and that was a year ago. ;_;

In all seriousness, I'd love to expand on making it a Nasuverse RPG too. But I don't really know much on the Nasuverse outside of Fate. So if you have any suggestions or ideas, feel free to give them.

With what I'm already doing, you should be able to at least play a game of Maguses since I"ll be adding the magic stuff and some conceptual weapons.

I'm heavily considering whether to do my own Magic System over porting stuff and just adding it on to the existing Psychic Powers. I need to finish up reading on those Psyker Powers before I make a decision. Right now I'm in a RP.
Read Tsukihime. Start with Akiha route.

If you have deleted the game since you completed Arcueid I will go into the game right fucking now, complete the Arcueid route and upload a goddamn version of the game where you don't have to go through it again.
>So if you have any suggestions or ideas, feel free to give them.

The most important part of Nasuverse in Tsukihime is Espers and Vampires.

Or, rather, Dead Apostles.

No reason these individuals can't get involved, as far as I know.

Psyker powers can be limited and modded into Espers. Espers have a single ability, which usually fucks them up with use. Make your own magic system, dude. Most Magus aren't gonna open a portal to hell and shit even by accident.

Trust this man.
He is your friend.
Sure. Chances are I accidentally deleted it a while back.

Dead Apostles, as is I can make it a separate background/specialty. Game is picking up so I"ll be more scarce for a bit.

If you have a more broad term to represent Non-Servants, post it since I'll be encompassing non-F/X games.

Btw, for non-servants I"ll be doing chargen in tiers so you can have a game of varying powerlevels at the start. So you could have a bunch of highschoolers or play a bunch of hardcore guys.

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Already started going through it. Luckily the game has autoskip even though its so ancient. So ancient Akihabara didn't have moe when its sequel was released.
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Done going through the route. Uploading in progress.
kk. Finished the game and some other stuff.

I"ll post a very short, incomplete summary of each existing Psychic Power soon. You can easily find the beta online if you want to see everything each power does. If I wrote a power effects allies, it also effects the psyker by default.
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Uh Ishould probably explain that this is the link to the Tsukihime game with completed Arcueid. You can start reading from a new game and get Akiha ending.

>Finished the game

Also I'm european its 2 am here
The RP I was in. Session ended.

http://pastebin.com/s5iCydxS Summary of existing Psyker powers.

What's the difference between Golems and Homunculi in the Nasuverse, btw? Sapience?
Golems are more often than not short-term creations that are controlled and feuled by the magi that creates them.

Homunculi are made by fudging with the sperm and egg.
More like what Golems?
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I can't remember mostly because golems haven't really been used much if at all. As I said I can't remember... and its late.

Im just gonna go to bed and watch out for your posts or something. Although I will have to brush teeth and so on first so I'll linger for a few minutes.
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Oh and no that's not a misspelling of Akiha.
Thanks for the game link, btw. I"ll play it after mid-terms end. Have a good night.

Regarding the Servant parameters being so much greater than Masters, I'm just going to give them Unnatural Characteristics. It was a suggestion multiple people gave me, and it'd actually work unlike giving them ridiculous characteristic scores.

A: Gain Unnatural [Strength, Toughness, Agility, Willpower] (+5)
B: Gain Unnatural [Strength, Toughness, Agility, Willpower] (+4)
C: Gain Unnatural [Strength, Toughness, Agility, Willpower] (+3)
D: Gain Unnatural [Strength, Toughness, Agility, Willpower] (+2)
E: Gain Unnatural [Strength, Toughness, Agility, Willpower] (+1)
F: No bonus.

Willpower bonus doesn't matter in most existing powers/talents, so Unnatural Willpower will also give you +10 Mana.

Sound good? So someone with a ST of 70 (this isn't impossible to reach) will have a Strength Bonus of 12. With how I'm doing Servant unarmed attacks (I might undo this and make a Black Belt talent, btw), that's 1d10+12I damage.
What about masters attacking servants? Do they receive a damage penalty? Also what about master versus master?
So, I'd like to focus on Non-Servants now. Right now there are three existing Specialties: Normal, Magic-User and Magus. I"ll also add Dead Apostle but I'm not sure about how to stat it. How do they compare to Magi?

I'm going to make 'tiers'. This way, the GM can decide if he wants to just have the campaign be made up of highschool kids or people along the lines of Ciel, Illyasivel Einzbern etc. You could also have deliberately mixed tiers for the sake of roleplaying. I can't really fluff these powerlevels since I don't know that much about the Nasuverse.

Novice (400XP): People on the level of Emiya Shirou at the start of the VN. Baseline.
Intermediate (1600XP):
Adept (3200XP):
Epic (6400XP): This should represent the absolute best (but with room to grow).

As for specific background traits..
'Church Member' works as a positive background trait that Magic-Users could choose. It'd give them Contact (The Church) and access to the Church Armory. They start with Exotic Weapon Training (Keys of Providence).
'Hidden Potential': Negative trait for magic-users that represent a general ignorance of their capabilities and assets. This would be something like Shirou being unaware of his Reality Marble or Avalon.

I'm thinking of also giving every background a 'freebie' trait that they all have. Maybe.
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Servants have Demonic (30), which means that after AP and Toughness, they need to deal 31 damage to harm them at all. Assuming it's a non-magical/holy attack.

Other than the XP advantage, Servants DO get some inherent advantages. The fact that, they have some Characteristics that start as high as 50 or as low as 25 before even spending XP, and that they can purchase a fifth characteristic advancement.

Servants, depending on the rank of their stats also get Unnatural Characteristics at default, and that they start with more wounds. Then you have NPs and Personal/Class Skills.

Basically, you have a lot of innate things that will keep things stacked in favor of the Servant.

Master v. Master combat will work as normal.
For the time being, fuck the rest of the Nasuverse. Fate is the easiest universe to turn into a coherent RPG system, thanks to the HGW.

Don't bother trying to include shit like Dead Apostles - that will only bog the game down. Focus explicitly on Fate until it is perfect, THEN start adding stuff from the rest of the Nasuverse.

However, I recommend considering the possibility of altered HGW structures - stuff like the Mooncell creating a false HGW with 14 servants rather than just 7.

Basically, I'm suggesting a way to make this something other than pure PvP - if there's a lot more than 7 servants, two or three Masters teaming up suddenly becomes a lot more feasible, and it also allows for NPC teams to form for added challenge.

Hell, you could even create a campaign based on totally different rules, like a handful of Magi suddenly summoning Heroic Spirits to go on an epic journey with to blah the blah de blah.
>based on the Warhammer RP System
People need to learn from the saga of AdEva. Don't do this. Just don't.

It's not based on DH, it's based on BC/OW, which is a far more refined system.

And unlike Adeva, this isn't any as extreme as trying to design a mecha simulator. The stats work excellently for Servants, in fact.
Eh. In general, if you make a Fate/ RPG with things like Mana, mystic codes etc, you'd end up adding things that would apply to a Magus campaign anyway.

Btw, I do hope to make it so there's a solid core system that is basically a re-labelled Only War system. And then branch off. If people want a 'gritty' Fate/X game with more in-depth weapon profiles, Psychic Phenomena and a game with no ties to the Nasuverse, I want to let people do it without heavy houseruling.

If people want an honest Nasuverse campaign that is as close to canon as possible, and are fine with weapon profiles like 'assault rifle', they should be able to do it.

That's how I intend on making the game, at least.
What I have so far:

All Primates/Humanoids/Masters get the following:
Skills: Linguistics [English or whatever is the native language for the campaign],Linguistics [Any] (Int) or Common Lore [Any] (Int), x2 Any Known Skills (must have the two Aptitudes for theM).

Normals start with the following:
Skills: Common Lore [Any] (Int), Trade [Any] (Int),
Talents: x2 Weapon Training [Any]
Universal Trait: Magic Inept
P. Traits:
N. Traits:

Magic Users start with the following:
Skills: Known Psyniscience (Per), Known Forbidden Lore [Magecraft] (Int)
Talents: Weapon Training [Any]
Universal Trait: ???
P. Traits:
N. Traits:

Maguses start with the following:
Skills: Known Psyniscience (Per), Known Forbidden Lore [Magus Association] (Int), Known Forbidden Lore [Magecraft] (Int)
Talents: Weapon Training [Any but Small Arms and Support Weapons]
Universal Trait: Magical Crest
P. Traits: Established Family, High Quality Circuits, Prodigy
N. Traits: Neo-Luddite, Young Family, Low Quality Circuits
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Added some stuff. It's on the second page of Master chargen in the doc.

What I'm having difficulty is are positive/negative traits for Magic-Users
Updated. I really need 1-2 more negative traits for each background.

Normals get plenty of non-magic things that benefit them greatly to help mitigate the fact they can't transfer mana in combat and have halved Mana.

Magic Users can either be really good at casting a spell and have a starting Psychic power. Or have a ridiculous plot device.

Maguses are maguses. They can be good mages in some ways, but also bad in some. They could also be Neo-Luddites or Assholes.
To appease some of the Tsukihimefags, we're trying to include a Dead Apostle character specialization option.

Now, Dead Apostles are usually hundreds of years old and highly experienced characters. I believe that all of their base characteristics should be 25, to reflect their advantages over humans.

The average Dead Apostle is roughly on par physically with a weak Servant, so they should probably get a single Unnatural Characteristic bonus to any physical characteristic of their choice, like a +2.

Dead Apostles are usually users of magecraft, so they'd start with a certain level of Psy Rating. They also tend to have Mystic Eyes of a weaker type, like Charm. Most importantly, Dead Apostles have a high regeneration factor that can only be circumvented by extreme amounts of grievous bodily harm or Conceptual Weapons (magical damage).

However, they all have to drain a certain amount of prana from humans at a certain rate or they will quickly grow weak and perish. Nero Chaos, a high level Dead Apostle, had to kill an entire Hotel of people to feed himself fully...

And there is the whole bloodlust factor as well.

The problem with Dead Apostles is that they need to be balanced for campaigns of all experience levels if we're gonna let them be used as PCs.
>Magic-User and Magus
Uhhh magic-users are magi. Plain and simple.
>'Church Member' works as a positive background
Why even have this when Kirei was just a super special snowflake. Church members and Magi don't mix
>To appease some of the Tsukihimefags
>we're trying to include a Dead Apostle character specialization
DA is probably the LEAST interesting part about Tsukihime and they would be grossly overpowered just on the basis of what they are.

There's literally 2 ways to become a DA. Get OP enough and basically Lich yourself or live for 100 years as a ghoul, feasting on humans to keep yourself alive. And in that case you've become pretty much as OP as the former.

You seem to be aware of it as you call it "as strong as a weak servant", which if you look at the list, is pretty much wrong. They're rather strong even in servant terms.

What you should look at instead is the 3 other backgrounds represented in Tsukihime. Or well... technically 4 other backgrounds.

Burial Agent

Technically "bloodlust" means the lust for blood. But DAs literally NEED blood. Its explained in Tsukihime.

Really just read Tsukihime.
Look at OP, he defined his difference in his first post. Magic-Users are a balanced thing between pure normal person, and pure mage
>which if you look at the list
The list is only comprised of the strongest 27 Dead Apostles though.

You're arguing mechanics while people are talking about lore.
What he said
>Magic-User and Magus
>Uhhh magic-users are magi. Plain and simple.
What he was replying to
>So, I'd like to focus on Non-Servants now. Right now there are three existing Specialties: Normal, Magic-User and Magus

That part was about mechanics.
Things usually have a canonical basis to avoid breaking the lore. The more you know.
Making one or two posts before I leave for class.

Not necessarily. Being a magus is also a lifestyle, and you have people who have magical circuits, but no crests, such as Shirou. Kiritsugu didn't consider himself a magus, too.
I vaguely remember Rin and Shirou talking about Magic-Users in the Fate or UBW route.

It's kind of a hard group to define since, yeah, there are very few non-maguses who use some kind of magic outside of ESPs. Worse come to worst, I can always merge them. But right now, they're pretty distinct from the other two specialties.

I"ll consider merging them with Normal (at least the Plot Devices and Hidden Background bit) depending on how other specialties go, though.

Even in Fate, Kotomine isn't the only Church member. You had Caren, Risei and the F/P character.

And, pfff. Super special snowflake is what defines most characters in the Nasuverse.

Looking at the backgrounds you listed:

ESPer: Maybe.
Assassin: What makes this different from an ESPer?
Halfbreed: ???
Burial Agent: If I were to go with a Church background, it'd probably be a broader range so you could be part of a specific group. It's also because, if possible, I want to avoid making backgrounds that are specific to a certain powerlevel.
I believe Assassins are considered seperate (or would be) because they specifically hunt Demons, and train/are taught from birth in specific techniques (I.e Shiki with his rapid-slashing... How he managed to cut Arcueid into 17 pieces in pretty much an instant)

As for Halfbreeds, what it says on the tin. Half Demons, like the Tohno family (Akiha and SHIKI) or, for another example, Kouma Kishima
ATM, 'Psychic' is just a positive trait for Magic-Users.

What I need for Specialties is:
A. Aptitudes:
B. A universal trait
C. Multiple positive traits
D. Multiple negative traits

Dead Apostles, I can probably see some stuff.

Even Church members maybe if I look at the sub-factions within it.

Don't ESPers/Psychics just have one magical power, and that's it? With Assassins having that one magical power, but also focused around combat?

Half-Breeds just sound like a differently flavored psychic/magic ability that is innate, unless I'm missing something.

Again, I don't have much knowledge on Tsukihime and caught up in midterms. I may very well be wrong on what I said so feel free to educate me or offer suggestions
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Karen is Kireis daughter and she comes to replace his position. She has nothing to do with magi and neither did Rise (other than knowing Tokiomi for obvious reasons)

>ESPer: Maybe.
>Assassin: What makes this different from an ESPer?
Hardcore training, being deliberately bred for battle, usually have hereditary traits like mystic eyes.
>Halfbreed: ???
Read Tsukihime. Its explained at the end of the Arcueid route and goes in depth in the Akiha and maid routes. They're pretty crazy half humans.
>Burial Agent: If I were to go with a Church background, it'd probably be a broader range so you could be part of a specific group. It's also because, if possible, I want to avoid making backgrounds that are specific to a certain powerlevel.
Meh ok, but having it (the Church) as a specific starting point for your abilities should be in there.
Can you address the post I made right above yours?
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Yes they usually do, but ESPers also have potential for increasing those supernatural abilities over time... and in some cases even gaining auxiliary powers.
Assassins don't have to have mystic eyes (this has been the only attributed kind of ability to assassins to date so I will assume they are limited to it), but some do. Otherwise fully correct. Also their supernatural abilities cannot be "evolved" very far from the starting point (if at all) and they cannot gain new ones. For in games sake there might be reason to have a character develop their mystic eyes as an assassin because of the nature of RPGs, but it should probably be justified as becoming more skilled at using it, rather than an actual increase in power.
Innate, random (maybe not in game although that could be interesting), powerful, self-destroying are your keywords here. Can reach high powerlevels from their ability alone and can further climb as a normal human. Halfbreeds don't live long as they tend to go insane as they connect more with the demonic part either through age or overuse of power (like going to the deep side of the pool). Their powers can be literally anything it seems.

Oh and when going to the deep end for power they don't have to go insane, but they always suffer inverse impulse. A mirrored version of their personality. None of their opinions change, just their attitude. Submissive people become dominant and so on.
Alright. Seeing as how supernatural those 3 things are, I think I"ll focus on magic again before moving back to specialties.
Haha, it's a miracle I caught this thread-
Oh no.

Dead Apostle that is not a magus, which he propably isn't if he is young as you describe, is no match to any kind of a servant, but is a match to a magus and beats even an armed human to curb.

It should be noted that even normals ought to have magical talent to participate, and it should be able to be awakened because of reasons. Otherwise their main advantage would be the knowledge of the site since they are locals, but anyway it's stupid to make this all any kind of balanced. The more bullshit you take out, the less Nasu will it be. So it goes.

Second, Assassins are extremely vague to define even in the games themselves. Hunter families, that's different.

Mixed Bloods are VERY different from physics. They are bullshit tough, strong and generally lively as a defining trait, since their concept is stronger. If they have special abilites similliar to psychic ones, they are propably because the stronger concept of oni unlocked something in the human part due to always demanding moar. Anyway, Red Demon God outright states that normal psychic should get wtfpwned by a normal mixed blood, which is why the hunters use mixed bloods as well.

I'd say normals should have complete freedom of action, while mages are sort of tied to their role by their backgroud, mixed bloods are haunted by various disorders and will always be playing more or less madmen and Apostless just play a vampire. I am willing to bet that if an Apostle participated in a normal war, he got taken out first because of all the Church and moralfag hate.
For backgrounds for magecraft users, make it:

Enlightened(is aware of the existence, practiced stuff, stopped with it and focuses on common life)
Apprentice(A magus in training)
Formalcraft practicioner(read up on Formalcraft - various witches, shamans, do complicated magic but more empathically, they are taught patterns by oral tradition but don't really understand why they work)
Sealing agent(basically a magus hunter, people used to hunt people that have stuff in their crests that the association wants, or deems dangerours, propably both. May be a magus like Bazett, but ususally isn't and his magic is propably gimmicky)
(not that this fits in the pdf, just that it should be a given character choice and those are all technically magecraft users. Generally more GLORIOUS MAGUS, HO is more munchkin)
Mhm. The specialties obviously aren't final.

But, I do hope to make them balanced to a good degree without ruining it. Outside of magic for Normals? Well, you can give them non-magic related advantages. One I added was allowing them to start with more/better equipment (although I haven't quantified it yet).
A Normal also has the most Aptitudes, and no pre-determined ones. So not only could you choose your own Aptitudes, but you're also the specialty that is the cheapest to buy characteristic/skill advancements and talents.
Depending on the tier you put Masters at, a Normal would very well end up being a Badass Normal.

Could you explain Hunter families and Assassins? If there isn't enough distinction, I could make what separates a Psyker and Assassin are one or two aptitudes and the traits you take at character generation.

But, I can't work on Assassins/ESPs until I get magic spells--followed by psychic powers & mystic stuff out of the way. Not yet.

Are there any special things about Sealing Agents/Enforcers? The Church seems to be a diverse bunch and have their own armory. If not, being an Enforcer could fall under a 'Magus Killer' asset.

The witchcraft blurb has ideas on what kind of spells would fall under witchcraft. But there's nothing on formalcraft other than them being more ritual focused.
So DH has Psychic Phenomena.

How would you represent what Shirou did? Using magic your body can't handle.

In addition to/as a replacement to the Psychic Phenomena roll for Push, maybe you automatically take IP and damage, maybe critical damage even?

Anyways, don't get too wrapped up in these extraneous details, Rocco. It's fine to want to expand it into a full Nasuverse game, but if you don't get your core down, it'll be a moot point.

Hunter/Assassin families and hybrids aren't even that unique to warrant their own specialization - they're the same idea as Magic Users mechanically, namely that they have a few special abilities that are quite powerful under the right circumstances, with painful drawbacks. They're not like Dead Apostles, who are literally not humans anymore.

ESPers can also be added to the Magic User category, as once again, they possess only one or a handful of powerful abilities.

This is all mechanically speaking, of course. You might as well just include a small statement saying that the name Magic User can be replaced with whatever in-setting type of character you're actually playing.

Aside from that, there's not much else to say besides Tsukihimefags are awfully rude.

Well, even when going past his limits Shirou was still able to Trace stuff numerous times in a row without being too terribly wounded by it on the surface.

In one of the routes Archer mentioned that when he tried using Tracing the first time he blew his arm off...

Replacing Psychic Phenomena for Push is probably the best idea - there's no need for IP or critical damage, though, considering most of the time forcing yourself to use magic that's past your limits will drain you of all your mana faster than a fat kid downs his chocolate milk.

Continuing, you could include a d100 roll and on critical failure, a ton of crit damage is taken.
>they're the same idea as Magic Users mechanically
Uh, no.

I don't even know how to tell you how wrong you are, because its clearly obvious that they are not.

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