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Sisters of Battle/Ecclesiarchy

>Fluff Changes:

I'd increase the number of Sisters galaxy-wide, as well as the number of Orders. While the established Orders Militant are the largest and most well known, there are many smaller Orders all throughout the Imperium, each with their own homes, dogma and agenda. Every Order has at least one Convent, where the Sisters are taught, train and attend to their day to day duties. The smallest Orders are often a single isolated convent on a Shrine world or Cardinal World, while the largest may have Enclaves spread from one side of the Imperium to the other.
There has been a split within the Ecclesiarchy over the appearance of the so-called "Sensei," with some calling them a new, dangerous kind of Psyker Mutant, while others regard them as heralds of the Emperor's return, some going as far as to claim they are his mind returned to life in human form.
This split carries through to the Sisterhood, and Orders across the Galaxy are forced to choose a side.

HQ:
>Canoness/Abbess
>An Abbess is a leader of a particular Convent or larger Enclave, while the Canoness is the Head of an Order. Among the smaller Orders, these roles are often one and the same.
The Abbess would be about the equivalent of the Canoness now, in terms of stats, while the Canoness would be a beefed up version. They would have a broad range of options in terms of Wargear.

>Confessor
>High ranking of the Ecclesiarchy, Confessors often take to the battlefield to inspire their troops to increased feats of bravery.
Extremely weak in combat, but should have a broad range of buffs available for troops. Can take a retinue of Assassains, Crusaders, Attendants, Bodyguards and loyal Abhumans to protect him and offer unique abilities.

>Sensei
>Throughout the galaxy incredable individuals are emerging, known as the Sensei. Possessing incredable powers Psyker powers, but not seeming to suffer any of the usual side-effects, they are clearly something unique. While their existance is a widely kept secret, Imperial leaders are constantly debating what their existance means for the Imperium. Until such a time as an official verdict is reached, every branch of the Imperium is free to react as they see fit. Those Ecclesiarchy Priests that view the Sensei as scions of the Emperor have commanded the Sororitas to gather and protect them, while those that view them as yet another mutant strain are quick to condemn them to death.
Very high base stats, and provides bonuses to attached units, but comes with virtually no equipment and is extremely costly. Can buy Wargear, but would quickly eat up points. Psyker powers?

>Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord
Would function much like the Grey Knights version.

Fuck the boob plate

acquire something reasonable

Elites:
>Celestians
>Veteran Battle Sisters are organised into Celestian squads, where they can utilise their broad range of skills as the mission demands. Many go to war in Servo-Armour, boosting their abilities even further beyond those of their Sisters.
Celestians can choose to carry a lot of Wargear, from Special Weapons and Power Weapons to "Servo-Armour," which boosts their Strength [Maybe Toughness?] and provides a small Invulnerable Save.

>Sisters Repentia
>While all prospective Sisters are trained from Childhood, many still fail to achieve the levels of disipline and and purity required to join the Orders. Those that fail, and those Sisters who are deemed unworthy of continued service, are formed into Repentia groups and seek absolution in the fires of war.
Repentia are pretty solid, and I wouldn't really change much. I think a visual overhaul is in order, but that's just a personal taste thing.

>Archangels
>Only the oldest and wisest Celestians are ever deemed worthy to wear the most prised relics of the Sisterhood: Tactical Dreadnaught Armour. Only the largest and most illustrious Orders can hope to aquire and maintain these ancient weapons, some of which can be traced back to the Great Crusade. Those senior Sisters that are given this honour are known as Archangels, and stride into battle with a confidence that only the Emperor's faith [and five inches of Adamantium] can bring.
Archangels would be equipped very differently to Space Marine terminators in order to differenciate them. While SM Termies can mount either ranged or melee weapons, Archangels would primarily be geared for melee [I'm thinking Power Weapons and Bolters as standard, with the option of upgrading to fists] but also carrying Assault Weapons [Heavy Flamers and Multi-Meltas].

>Sister Dialogus/Sister Hospitaller/Priests
Wouldn't count toward Elites limit and could be embedded into any infantry unit. Would provide one of/some of the kinds of bonuses you'd expect [Feel No Pain, Fearless, Furious Charge, etc.]. Would have a cap on the number you could take.

Troops:
>Battle Sisters
Not a lot to be said here really. I guess they should be +1 required, though if you wanted the army list to be able to reflect an entirely Ecclesiarchical force, you could lift it.

>Imperial Fanatics/Militia
>When the Orators of the Ecclesiarchy speak the masses listen, and often the endless hordes of civilians that make up the Imperium are called on to defend their homes or repel invaders. While their combat skills might make Guardsmen Conscripts look like Battle Hardened Veterans, they make up for it with raw enthusiasm, blindly hurling themselves at whatever horrors the galaxy has to offer. Thus is the strength of mankind.

>Malakhim
>While Power Armour and the Holy Bolter are the signature weapons of the Sororitas, there are times when more subtle tactics are required, and the Sisters of Battle take to the field in Flak/Carapace armour and wielding special long ranged weapons to support their Sisters' advance.
These lightly armoured Sisters would be equipped with either Sniper Rifles, the standard special weapons, or unique "Styx Launchers," mobile mortars capable of firing incendiary grenades and meltabombs at long ranges. Alternately could be used as a Fast Attack Choice. If they wore camo-Nuns' Habits, it would be awesome.

Dedicated Transports:
>Rhino
It's a Rhino. What more do you want? Some Sister-specific upgrades might be a good idea, but I don't have anything specific in mind.

>Immolator
I love the Immolator. It's awesome. Nothing to do here.

>Revelation Gunship
>These large dropships were put into production by the adeptus mechanicus to fill the niche of rapid-deployment craft the Sororitas had long been missing. As Teleport homers are few within the Ecclesiarchy, the Revelation was designed to be able to transport Archangels and other larger units, including Dragoons. Armed with deadly Hurricane Bolters, Heavy Flamers and lascannons, the Revelation can quickly secure a landing zone and support its payload as they carry out their holy mission.
The Sisters don't have an aircraft, and I was rather underwhelmed by the Lightning in Soulstorm. I imagine the Revelation looking like the bastard son of the Valkyrie and the Stormraven, only slightly bulkier to facilitate it's transport capabilities. Perhaps a more lightly armoured variant could transport vehicles?

Fast Attack:
>Seraphim
I love the Seraphim models and don't have much to change, though I'd like to see them have some kind of special rule that makes them act differently to normal Jump Infantry, just to make them a little bit less like Assault Marines. Maybe make them Jetpack Infantry? This would assist in their use of twin-pistols.

>Dominions
I'm not crazy about these as they're effectively just Battle Sisters with more weapon options. I'd prefer to see them *all* use some kind of special weapons. Maybe equip them with a "Hades Flamer"; larger than a Flamer, but more mobile than a Heavy Flamer, or some kind of Melta/Flamer Hybrid? I feel Transports should come as-standard to justify their place in the "fast-attack" section.

>Dragoons
>The fervor of the Battle Sisters is legendary, and none are more eager to get into the fray than the Dragoons. Riding into battle, Dragoons can quickly deploy ranged weapons, protect vulnerable flanks, or charge the enemy ranks head on.
I can't decide if these Sister-Knights should ride Bikes or Horses, so why not both? Have Bikes as an optional alternative/upgrade to make these fast-responce sisters that much more flexable.

Heavy Support
>Retributor Squad
These Sisters should be equipped in the new "servo-armour" as it always confused me how they could lift those massive weapons unaided. [I mean, it takes two guardsmen to shift the same guns, and they have the same Strength stat ...?] also to give them a bit more staying power with an invuln. save. I'd also like to see their selection of weapons improve. While the Sisters have always been Flamer/Melta heavy, I feel like this penelizes for no reason when fighting some foes. If not, they should have some other advantage, like longer ranged meltas.

>Exorcist
While the idea of a giant Organ that fire missiles is very cool, and extremely fitting visually with the Ecclesiarchy's style, it's kind of hard to take seriously. I'd like to keep it around, but I understand anyone that doesn't like it. How would you update it?

>Penitent Engine
I've never liked the look of the Penitent Engine, but, again, that's a personal taste thing. I would like it to fit more with the "Joan of Arc" look of the Battle Sisters rather than this weird mechanical look. At the moment it has NO options, and I'd like to see that change, but, I don't have anything to add.

Can you get Henchmen for Inquisitors/Sensei?

>Brimstone Tank
>One of many variants on the iconic Rhino Chassis, the Brimstone is the Ecclesiarchy's answer to the Astartes' Predator. While it is not as modular and flexable, the Brimstone cannon be matched for raw firepower, it's Desolator Cannon causing impressive destruction for a weapon its size. While the Brimstone is reletively new and not very widespread, it is found at the vanguard of any Convent lucky enough to possess one.
The Sisters lack a decent ranged battletank, and while the Immolator is brilliant, it's designed for transport and support, not firefights. I imagine the brimstone having a single, massive weapon, like an earthshaker cannon, mounted in the transport area in the back, emerging from the roof. Sponsons should be an upgrade option, to provide defensive support should enemy infantry get too close.

>Sister Pronatus
>The Order Pronatus specialises in the aquisition, maintainance and use of the Imperium's holy relics. Given the nature of the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, many of these relics are weapons of war. From arcane artillary pieces to venerable hand-weapons from the Dark Age of Technology, any relics of destructive power will soon be turned on the enemy when a Sister Pronatus is present.
A Sister Pronatus would have a number of relics available, each of which would be used in different ways. Aside from large, arcane weapons and relic-swords, she should be able to carry digital-weapons, energy shields and other more "sci fi" equipment. Maybe she could provide them to squads she's attached to.

So, there's my thoughts /tg/ ... I'm going to eat dinner. I'll see how long it took you to turn this into another boobplate argument when I get back.

>>20760007
That wasn't my intention. I though they'd be independent characters, like the Canoness. The current WDex has "command Squads" which I left out, just because I think they're in every Imperium Codex Ever. We could throw them back in as an option for Canonesses/Abbesses/Sensei, but I'd want them to be a bit more interesting than "Some Celestines and Other Sisters".

>>20760047
Well yeah, I just like the inquisitor's "bunch of random guys helping him in battle", which would also fit with a Sensei's tendancy to pick up stragglers and similar PC-types.

Oh! One thing before I pop away, I was thinking about Faith Powers and how to work them in this 'Dex, and had a thought. What do you think of this?

The Army as a whole can generate "Psychic Powers" as if it were a Psyker with a Power Level equal to the number of HQ Units it has (I think Inquisitors would not count towards this number, while Sensei would count as 2 HQ units). Any Sisters unit (Battle Sisters, Celestines, etc.) could chose to forgo firing their weapons to use one of the Army's powers. Only one unit can do this once per turn. Not sure which lists they'd roll on, but they should definitely have their own and the fire one.

I squat 'em. Them give Zoats or Vampires an army.

>>20759943
>Very high base stats

They're Space Marine tier.

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>>20759908
>>20759928
>>20759943
>>20759959
>>20759965
>>20759974
>>20759977
>>20759995
>>20760005
>>20760020
I AM THROWING ALL OF MY MONEY AT THE SCREEN AND NOTHING IS HAPPENING!

Also this.

>>20759949

Enough with the boob-plate already. It's just stupid on every level.

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Inquisitorial Henchmen, for reference.

>>20760147
Piss everyone off, make Zoats a client race of the Tau.


>>20760131
While I'm firmly of the opinion faith is warp based, I think making it actually plain psychic powers is a mistake.
Rather I'd recomend more of a faith point counter for each unit.
Faith points could have various effects, mainly counting as Psychic Mastery for the purpose of Deny the Witch rolls. Throw in various powers that you can use when you expend Faith Points, something like Holy Light, a ranged attack with the Soul Blaze special rule.

Now throw in some methods of getting faith points, like, say:
Martyrdom: Whenever a model in this unit is destroyed, roll a 1d6, if the result is higher than the unit's faith points, add a faith point.

Only better written.

>>20760188
They should be above Space Marine tier I reckon. 5s at least. But that's just my thoughts, and I am by no means a rules-writer. (Not sure how much experience you need to qualify)

>>20760147
They have vampires (the C'tan) and they were unpopular enough to be reduced to slaves, and they had Zoats, but they were unpopular enough to be discontinued.
So, what you're saying is we should desquat them?
In that case, I'd just go for Squats.

>>20760278
Well, go tell GW to hire some randomer on the Internet.
And I like boob plate. It's 40k.

>>20760334
They have vampires (the Dark Eldar) and they were unpopular enough to be overhauled into one of the best armies in game.

>>20760334
>They should be above Space Marine tier I reckon.

They're said to be genetic counterparts of the Space Marines. I don't think their physical stats should be to high.

>>20760334
>>20760362
No, there are actual 40k Vampires. Zoats are pretty cool too. And Sisters shouldn't be talikng of popularity.

>>20760312
Cool. Would you want a similar list for Sensei? What would you want to see on a list?

Seems like a pretty good system. I went with the Psyker rules because
A) They're a major part of the rulebook and the Sisters have nothing to do with it. Which sucks. Sensei might be an answer to this, though.
2) It would mean they're using a Universal rule system that you wouldn't have to learn.
But, as I said, I'm not a rules person and I submit to the will of the majority on this stuff.

>>20759949
Fuck you, I love my boobplate. If you get rid of boobplate on account of being reasonable, then you have to get rid of spehss marine pauldrons, tau walker suits, eldar armor, and chaos everything.

Being in 40k doesnt mean they all have to have boobplate

Look as spess marines, only sang guard show off their body

>>20759928
>there are many smaller Orders all throughout the Imperium, each with their own homes, dogma and agenda.
Im fairly certain that is already the case, it just isn't mentioned much since the Major Orders are mentioned rarely enough as it is.

>/tg/ hates boobplate
>/tg/ wants boobplate

lol bipolar much

>>20760412
>/tg/
>more than one person

Whaaaaaaat?!

>>20760408
Space Marine weren't rocking buff bod armor from the start.

>>20760409
Nope, as it stands there are only six Orders Militant. In the whole Galaxy.

In the current fluff, there are MUCH less Sisters than there are Space Marines. I think that's kind of silly, hence the changes.

>>20760147
>squat 'em
Squats are back, so you must mean you want more SoBs too.

The term "sensei" needs to be retconned into something else.

>>20760427
Just found it on Lexicanum
>Since their founding the Major Orders Militant have established a number of subsidiary convents at sites significant to the Ecclesiarchy. Sometimes little more than small Garrisons, these bases have developed identities distinct from their parent Orders over time, eventually becoming separate Orders all together. These smaller Orders are referred to as the Lesser Orders Militant. In theory the leaders of the Lesser Orders are answerable to the leaders of the Major Order that spawned them.

>>20760443
Squats are back but they are a minor background element with no rules, perfect for the Sisters.

1st order of business

Hire a sculptor that can do women, not men

>>20760456

You're insurting the honourabre weeaboos of Nottingham!

>>20760379
Well, the old Sensei followers list gave you options of human rebels, squats, human rebel psykers, ogryns, eldar, lesser sensei and Navigators.

With a list based on these henchmen, you'd probably get Banishers, Crusaders, Jokaero, Mystics, Psykers and Warriors. So you could just have Sensei act as Inquisitors for the purpose of Henchmen squads.

And yeah, while I like the idea of faithpoints, you have a fair point. If you do give them psychic powers, the likely disciplines would be Biomancy (calling upon the Emperor to strengthen you), and Pyromancy (I don't have to explain this for sisters).

>>20760467
Okay, I stand corrected.

But, they are still.
1) Tiny
2) Subservient to the larger Orders.
And the Sisters are still fewer than Space Marines in number.

I think players should have more freedom than that. If you want a Black Templars-esque Order who number in the hundreds of thousands, and play by their own rules, you should be able to.

>>20760512
1. I agree, this needs to change.
2. In theory is the operative term. In theory, all successor chapters answer to their founding chapter unless it fell to Chaos.

>>20760512
By the sheer amount of funding and resources the Ecclesiarchy has shouldn't there be many more sisters than marines?

I dislike the idea of the Sensei being part of the army. Remember, the Grey Knights actively seek out any and all leads about the Sensei so they can GRIND THEM UP FOR AMMUNITION. You know how the Dark Angels are with the Fallen? That's how the GK are with the Sensei.

I suggest replacing them with some kind of non-Sister Saint. High stats, eats wargear fast, and a range of faith style powers.

I also suggest mobs of Flagellants and Zealots, that can be fired through like how Skaven can. They also don't take up any troop choices.

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Maybe "generic" living saint ? with or without wings.
Maybe like necron have Ctan. I mean multiple special abilities like "I haven't die enough so I came back", "I'm so inspiring that normal human just pic related" and so on.

>>20760456
If you have any suggestions our ears are all open. I like the name, but as always, I defer to you guys.

>>20760498
I'd like to include more "subversive" options. Would also be an excuse to throw some Squats, Beastmen, Eldar Rangers, etc.
I think both Power systems would be worth a playtest or two.

>>20760512
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But, no.

>>20760600
>>20760604
The Sensei came out of me thinking up alternative for the Living Saint. I like her as a Unique hero, and didn't want her to become one of many.

Honestly, if Sensei cause a wedge between the Grey Knights and the Sisters ... great! The two should totally be rivals. And if you read my fluff, half the Sisters *are* hunting down the Sensei.

As for Flagellants and Zealots, that's what my Fanatics are. I realise I didn't type out their rules ideas, so I'll tell you now.

>>20760600
Got a source for grinding up Sensei? I don't think I've seen that.

Plus, the greatest Ecclesiarch ever was likely a Sensei.

>>20760655
>Imperial Fanatics/Militia
>When the Orators of the Ecclesiarchy speak the masses listen, and often the endless hordes of civilians that make up the Imperium are called on to defend their homes or repel invaders. While their combat skills might make Guardsmen Conscripts look like Battle Hardened Veterans, they make up for it with raw enthusiasm, blindly hurling themselves at whatever horrors the galaxy has to offer. Thus is the strength of mankind.
Fanatics would consist of an (ideally large) unit of average humans (probably with a WS and BS of 2 that represents them being untrained) that become fearless as long as the Orator is Alive. He comes with the unit as standard. They could be upgraded to "militia" for a few points, which would bring their WS and BS back up to 3. These units would be designed for one thing and one thing only: holding up enemy units. They get in the way, and won't flee until the Orator is killed. Not an easy feat when there are +20 bodies between you and him.

>>20760707
Didn't Thor die from old age? Sensei cannot into that.

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Fluff-wise, I have trouble believing the Sensei would really like the Ecclessiarchy very much.

>>20760427
Which, honestly, makes little sense, considering how ubiquitous the Ecclesiasarchy is.

Spoilered for minor heresy.

>>20760722
Militia might also be able to get Lasguns/Laspistols, while Fanatics would only have Autoguns/Autopistols.

>>20760722
So the Orator most likely has the Zealot special rule? (A unit containing a model with this rule gains Hatred and Fearless)

Requesting archive.

>sensei

nope.jpg

>>20760747
Well, I'm sort of rebooting the Sensei as new and helpless, unaware of who they are and what they're there for. It makes them more mysterious, and more open ended.
So, with this new background, while some would get concentration camped/murdered, some would fall in with Inquisitors, the Ecclesiarchy, the Space Marines.

>>20760745
He died at the tender age of 112. In the Imperium, juvenat treatments can keep nobles looking 35 well into their second century, when thor died, I doubt it was from old age.

I'm OK with all of this, particular Pronatus and Hospitallers. Archangels and Malakhim overlap with Termies and Scouts more than I like, and I don't want Sisters to be too Marine-like. Though I do love the idea of camo-habits.

>>20760655
The Imperium have shitload of saints, sensei are fucking rare. Also you would expect living saint to be with the exclesiarchy while sensei don't like it mostly. They were described as "free thinkers" that hate dogma you know ?

It make more sense to do the opposite : living saint as standard and sensei as special character.

>>20760806
Have you read the Thorian sourcebook for Inquisitor? If not, grab it.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350172a_m1320032_Thorian_Sourcebook.pdf

>>20760806
The Sensei weren't aware of what they were, but they're the sons of the Emperor, so they'd have to be pretty old, Emps hadn't had any action in a while.

Possibly repurpose the term "Thorian" to replace Sensei?
Meaning "like Thor", rather than "in Thor's footsteps"?

>>20760864
Sons not in a literal sense.
They're descended from the Emperor's descendents.

Wait, wait, wait, I thought nobody gave a SHIT about sisters, even less than about Tau.
What happened?

File: 1347913644754.jpg-(2.34 MB, 1453x4892, Sister of BAWWWtle Nisa b(...).jpg)

>>20760905
Nisa-chan happened.

>>20760899
It says they're his sons in Slaves to Darkness.

>>20760945
Lost and the Damned goes into more detail, what with providing actual rules.
It says there, that they're "mere" descendents, and not all of his descendents are Sensei. It's probably recessive.

>>20760905
Ward hates them, so now everyone loves them.

>>20760905
Actually, I think sisters are quite popular (and tau are also, despite everything).
I know it's not even near to be a reliable popularity test but sister may be the second more common faction in fanart behind SM (and just before tau).

>>20760945
Well, as I said I'm sort-of rebooting them. I was imagining them less as children or descendants of the Emperor [honestly I think the idea of the Emperor going around fucking women kinda weird ... on a base level, how the fuck did it fit?] and more as a Psychic rebirth ... though, as a good 'Dex writer should, I'd leave it open ended.

>>20760873
I thought the Thorians were a branch of Inquisitors?
Well, I don't really like the name. Just because it doesn't sound particularly exciting.
>>20760834
I expected that reaction, and I see where you're coming from. I just like the idea of Termie-Sisters.
The Malakhim = Scouts thing was unintentional, but I wanted a more lightly-armoured Sister unit, and having a recon/stealth unit just made sense.

I see where people are coming from with the "Sensei wouldn't get along with the Ecclesiarchy" thing ... and it's a shame, as I liked having them in the list. Maybe they could be replaced with Saints. I just think that's less interesting. I'd rather have both.

>>20760938
Oh God I love it when /tg/ gets compassionate. (Clean) neckbeard hugs are best hugs.

>>20761088
Make saints and sensei the same thing.
Humans filled with the power of the Emperor who can perform psychic miracles. The terms vary depending on if they're working for the Ecclesiarchy or not.

(And yeah, Thorians are Inquisitors who look for sense/divine avatars)

If you're gonna change the sensei then what's the point in using them? Their big thing was being the sons of the Emperor

>>20761088
>[honestly I think the idea of the Emperor going around fucking women kinda weird ... on a base level, how the fuck did it fit?]
Didn't Emps grow with time?
IIRC, his form is malleable.

>>20761128
This is an interesting idea.

While I'm not keen on combining the two, you make an interesting parallel ... Saints are ordinary people that the Emperor (probably) chose to be his hyper-powered servants, while the Sensei have that power from Birth, chosen or otherwise. Could this have a fluff impact?

>>20761164
Well they still are, just in a less literal sense.

>>20761198
The point was that they were in a /very/ literal sense. The kindabutnotreallysons are the Space Marines and Primarchs.

>>20761167
So those who look for sensei will have even more fun.

I like the idea of giving SoBs stuff, but this list just looks an awful lot like a SM army list.

>>20760312
I quite like the idea behind the current system though the implementation is kinda sucky due to lack of scaling (though technically it does scale by improving your odds with modifiers), lack of predictability and the fact that the points are just too damn scarce considering the average activation chance. D6 is good base but it needs an additional modifier that scales with army size.

In any case they should be mostly buffs and ignore psychic defense. Faith is not supposed to be only vaguely and potentially warpish and it was never about flashy evocations (though I have no problems giving one for a SC or such). In my opinion having one core power for every squad and special powers through ICs, Court characters (if you decide to turn priests and other smalltime unit into such) and SCs. There are plenty of example of design like that working in DE and Necron codices.

The problems come from balancing the powers itself the amount of Faith points so that you have to choose between powers (unless something miraculous happens) and the units so that they are not dead weight if the activation is a failure. You should be able to boost Shield of Faith by spending faith points for every unit.

>>20761281
What would you do differently?

>>20761294
You make good points. The main problem I have with the current system is how the powers are tied into the units. It restricts your options and means they're really just complicated unit abilities. In any case. What kind of powers would you like to see? What powers would fit for the new units?

>>20761167
Make a note about the "false saints", who lead cults/organizations talking about freedom from the Imperial cult and from the rule of the admnistratum. These false saints are also known as Sensei, and they claim that their (false) miracles come from the power in their blood.

These sensei are of obvious interest to the Witchhunters, due to their dual sins of their powers, and their heresy.

>>20761378
Ehh ... but that comes back to the thing of making them not the Sensei any more.

Still looking for less Sensei-oriented feedback.

>>20761397
As I said, interested in what people think of the list at large. Too Marine-ish? How so? Is Marine-ish a bad thing, considering how popular they are? What do you like? What would you change?

>>20761596
Marine-ish is bad because Sisters aren't Marines and there are so many Marines as it is. They need to be their own army, it's a shame that they have so much Marine shit already.

>>20761397
Yeah, I was trying to get the point across that they'd be the same thing, just treated differently due to being outside the Ecclesiarchy.

As for non-sensei related ideas. Give the Archangels Artificier Armour. Still 2+ armour save, and you can always give them an improved Shield of Faith to make it equal to Terminator armour.

Makes them a bit different to Termies, and avoids having doc thunder style miniatures.

>>20761630
As I said, what would you do differently?

The Sisters have always had a Marine-Parallel aspect, with their Rhino-chassis vehicles, Power Armour, similar types of units. Yet, they've always had a different spin on them. Honestly, I like that. The Sisters may resemble Marines, but they're far more different than any of the Marine-Variant armies.

I'd say combine the Prontarus and the Malakhim together. The Prontarus are not a military order, so carapace makes sense for them. In addition, a bit of stealth fits with their (Action hero) archaeologist nature. (Because we know every archaeologist is Lara Croft or Indiana Jones)

Also: 'Sneaky Archaeologists with Archaeotech' is something I'm not sure any army can say it 'has'. Marines tend to put their stuff on the guy built like a walking tank, not the sneaky ones.

>>20761596
I think he means the stats feel too much like space marines, just with tits.

>>20761653

Personally, I'd give them Artificer and a stupid amount of close up firepower. Have them fit the SOB 'Oh god, they are at 12 inches' sweet spot instead of being the more open ranges of terminators.

Give each one of them a hand flamer instead of a pistol. Purely for 'Oh god, look at that overwatch'. They are not melee troops, they don't each have a power weapon like terminators (Though 2+ armour makes them a brick). Where they specialize is just getting to 12 inches and laying down enough firepower to wipe a small deathstar off the map.

SOB Deathstar. Doesn't melee, it shoots.

>>20761768
That's a cool idea. I intended the Pronatus to be an independent character. Should that change, and we make them a small unit, or could they be a long commando?
If they're alone, it'd be interesting to give them the option of acting stealthy, joining a unit as a extra special weapon, or using being pieces of tech, more like a Techmarine with a Thunderfire Cannon or Eldar Weapons Platform.

>>20761768
I like this idea. Lightly armoured female archeologists investigating ancient sites. Probably along with Explorators.

>>20761846
>the more open ranges of terminators
Could give them Storm Shields/Power Swords instead of bolters.

Honestly, if you take away the Terminator armour you might as well make them upgraded Celestians.

>>20761846
At 12 inches wouldn't they be really vulnerable to charges?

>>20761851
This is me, just so you know.

>>20761359
>It restricts your options and means they're really just complicated unit abilities.

I don't hear people complaining about the implementation of GK psychic powers and they work pretty much like that. In any case I did say that everyone with Shield of Faith should be able to boost it via Faith (probably to 4+ if no save and +1 to existing better invulnerable) the old Armor to Invulnerable was kinda funky). I think the Sisters should some power and be able to use powers on enemy turn also.

For other powers I have no real problem with some of the current ones, for example Retributors' power is ok, as is Dominions' one. Canoness needs her power to be activated in the shooting phase, give additional point in some stat like Strength or Toughness and last until the end of the turn.

The Celestian one could make their melee attacks and bolter rounds ignore armor. Repentia should be able to make all the attacks they normally could instead of just one before dying, getting them into melee is hard enough as is so they should at least be able to kill shit when they get there. Priest could give charge range bonus or something.

I don't think the powers have to be super flashy, the thing I'm more concerned about is fixing the units and point costs.

>>20761851

Either would work. As small squads, they can have more 'lesser' tech. Stuff like 'We found a cache of DAOT sniper rifles' (Similar statline to tau rail rifles) with the squad leader going 'We found the blessed X of saint X' (Big Item for Squad)

As independents, I'd give them the option for a couple of different things, so they don't all have the same option.

I'd also have them give the squad they are with stealth...or bolster defences...no one fights in ruins like the Prontarus.

Repressor ? The idea of a moving bunker always sounded cool to me. Yes it's a chimerhino but still.

>>20761900

Yes. They would. Which is why I suggested that they get a flamer pistol instead of a bolt pistol. It means they have a more devastating overwatch (D3 autohitting STR 3 AP 6 attacks each). If you can weather it (Other deathstar units) though, you can engage them where they are less able to deal.

SOB have always been 'Dancing on the edge of getting charged'. I don't see why 'Super Sisters' would be any different.

>>20761943
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Repressor#.UFeY7Y1lT7E
Never really heard of this. It's pretty damn cool. It'd make an awesome addition to the dedicated transport section.

>>20761981
I like the idea of flamer-pistols as side-arms ... not sure Artificer Armoured Veteren Sisters are different enough from normal Celestians to warrent being a different unit, rather than an upgrade, though.

>>20759908
OP, the Abbess is the very highest member of the Sisters of Battle and at times a member of the High Lords of Terra. Unfortunately, the current Abbess is missing because GW hates SoB. In the 2nd ed codex they had Canoness and Prioress as the Captain and Chapter Master equivalents iirc.

Also, they used to have an Ecclesiarchy militia in 2nd ed. called the Frateris Militia. This included the Redemptionist. GW dropped this of course.

I think Terminator Sisters just goes to make them more like Space Marines and "Bolter Bitches". I'd rather they didn't have them.

Retributors and all Sisters wear Power Armour. It's how they can lift Heavy bolters and stuff.

Personally, I'd like it if the Sisters of Silence were brought into the Sisterhood.

I'd be happy if the Sisters and Ecclesiarchy shared a codex with the Black Templars.

File: 1347918888927.jpg-(89 KB, 873x627, sanguinary guard.jpg)

>>20762100
>not sure Artificer Armoured Veteren Sisters are different enough from normal Celestians to warrent being a different unit, rather than an upgrade, though.

Whatever, nigga.

>>20760842
>Thorian source book
Cheers! I did not know this was on the website.

>>20762100
As a weird idea Archangels could be former Repentia who have been redeemed through the power of a saint or through their service to the Emperor.

They don't wear armour, but their faith is strong enough to protect them (some very impressive Invulnerable save), but still wield weapons as if they were clad in terminator armour, through the strength of faith.

>>20761902
Continued here.

I left the new units out because I highly dubious about stuff like Sister Terminators or Long Range units for the competitiveness sake. It is not like GK are given cheap autocannons in the troop slots either.

Bikers, terminators and heavyweapon teams should go that stuff is just too mariney (and in the case of heavy weapon teams blatantly cheesy) for me. Senseis, flier transport, militia heavy tank and especially the relic team seems cool though.

I think Penitent Engine should become monster and get a major speed boost and go into fast attack, I think the tank should be limited to 36'' range and in exchange give Exorcist more range, it is an artillery piece after all.

I would give Sensei something flashy like Teleport Act of Faith. Pronatus could be a HQ retinue like the Necron Court with shitloads of options, the difference being that they don't join units.

>>20762163

>Personally, I'd like it if the Sisters of Silence were brought into the Sisterhood.

I've actually thought of how that could happen. Because they are NOT the same group and it should be clear in the codex.

The Custodes asked them. Simple as that. The Custodes were one of the groups supporting the Sisters continuing to exist after the Reign of Blood and they have long lasting links to the Sisters of Silence.

The Custodes asked the Sisters of Silence to aid the Sisters of Battle in their duty, and the Sisters of Battle return the favor to the Sisters of Silence on a regular basis when the Sisters of Silence need some serious extra firepower to bolster their limited numbers.

Going back to the Prontarus: Make them a squad. Make a Sister of Silence an Independent Character. Her special thing? Automatic success on deny the witch + some unusual gear.

>>20762193

Repentia seek redemption in death so that's probably not going to happen.

A sainted sister with only toga and a huge sword as her belongings would be acceptably canonical fanservice

>>20762163
>Abbess
Yes, I read this after I'd posted everything. I knew there was a supreme Sister, but I forgot her title. Canoness and Prioress works too. Currently in Canon there are only 2 Prioresses, but fuck that, we'll have one for each Order 'cause SIster everywhere.

>Frateris Militia.
I remember this from the old Sisters codex. My inspiration for fanatics/militia. (The Missionary Models are still some of my favourites)

>Terminator Sisters.
Okay, I get it guys, you don't like Terminator Sisters. That's sad, because I love the idea, but okay, I'll let it go. Reluctantly.

>Power Armour
If power armour boosts your strength, why do sisters all have strength 3? Subtle sexism?

>Sisters of Silence
Having never read the Horus Heresy books, I have no idea what they are exactly. I'll go read up.

>Templars
Not sure how you'd spin it, but my ears are open.

>>20762253
It makes sense, since the Sisters of Silence do run the black ships, which carry psykers back to Terra. I can see why they'd work with the Witch Hunters.

>>20760476
>>1st order of business
>>Hire a sculptor

ftfy

>>20762253
They should get a Custodes special character who must always be escorted by Pronatus. He's questing with the Pronatus to find the technology to fix the Golden Throne or something.

>>20762291
Sisters of Silence are an all female order of blanks who take oaths of silence, and guard the black ships.
They were the militant wing of Adeptus Astra Telepathica.

>>20762321

Little hesitant on that. If only because 'Giving the Custodes Stats' is something that could cause shitstorms.

>>20762321
Custodes should stay in Terra where they belong. They are steadfast and rigid guardians, not explorers.

>>20762291
>If power armour boosts your strength, why do sisters all have strength 3? Subtle sexism?

It doesn't, not in game terms any way. Space Marines are S4 with or without the armour.

>>20762284
Actually, it says in the current fluff that some do survive, are reentered into the Order and treated as living legends. I like this idea, though unarmoured Sisters carrying Power-Swords one-handed would look a bit weird ... though I guess repentia sort of get away with it.

>>20762216
There's a difference between giving them more abilities for competitiveness's sake and wanting them to be able to do more than just one thing: burn stuff.

Bikers might be marine-y, but how about mounted sisters?

>Penitent Engine
But it's a machine.
Just because the Dreadknight is a MC (which is retarded, I'd like to add) doesn't mean every machine on legs should be. The Walker rules are there for a reason. I like the idea of putting it in fast attack, though.

>>20762363

Indeed. Sisters would, if the scale was larger, be stronger than Guardsman. But on a 1-10 scale that has to include dreads and wraithlords? They are 'Close enough'

>>20762360
They have left before and it is a task only a Custodes would be trusted with. Plus, they trust the Sisters.

>>20762391
I'd say no for the "statting Custodes would cause shitstorms" reason ... though it would be nice to see Grey Knights players be faced with an Elite Warrior more Elite than the Elite Elite Warriors.

>>20762363
It still looks really weird to have a tiny Sister carrying around a massive multi-melta. I think they should be smaller, or should have some kind of support-frame modelled on.

>>20762321
Maybe make it a Magos? They're the guys charged with maintaining the throne after all. Give him a special rule that means he can't be affected by any sister's power (as if he was from a disliked allied force)

>>20762379
>Actually, it says in the current fluff that some do survive, are reentered into the Order and treated as living legends. I like this idea, though unarmoured Sisters carrying Power-Swords one-handed would look a bit weird ... though I guess repentia sort of get away with it.

For a visual difference, you could go with Robes instead of rags. And yeah...if you wanted them to be 'More elite', they'd have something like:

The Archangels stride through the battle untouched by enemy fire, almost like the emperor himself is guiding them at their side. Their blades swing with a grace unknown to chain weapons, a serene...and sure...purpose.

Emperor's Grace: 4+ Inv Save, Archangels may ignore 'Unwieldy' on weapons.

>>20762358
>>20762360
Custodes will be getting stats in the HH Black Library books eventually.

>>20762428
There are 2 guardsman characters that run around carrying Heavy Bolters.

>>20762428
>I'd say no for the "statting Custodes would cause shitstorms" reason ... though it would be nice to see Grey Knights players be faced with an Elite Warrior more Elite than the Elite Elite Warriors.

Grey Knights > Custodes.
Custodes are Marine tier, and got their asses kicked by sorcerer Marines.

>>20762444

evisecrators at initiative on units would go against the general trend of AP2 being I1 or special character thing, and a huge rusty chainsword would go against the "saintly" aesthetic.

I suggest giving them old school Blessed Weapons (S5 AP3) instead.

>>20762448
Why'd you click on it when the euphemism was obvious?

>>20762444
I just think they should have Jumppacks with eviscerators. Make them really dynamically posed like they are flying forward ready to strike.

>>20762379
They already got three types of weapons (flamers, melta and bolters) it should be enough. Dark Eldar and GK are even more narrowly focused.

>>20762444
Make it 3+ at least I'd say. That way they wouldn't get any benefit from power armour.
And yeah, robes would make sense... (And oh god, why am I now thinking of The Boss from MGS as a Sister of Battle)

>>20762448
If I had a SFW pic of mounted sisters, I would have posted it. I cannot resist the siren call of a perfect pun.

>>20762444
Still not 100% sold on the Elite Unarmoured Sisters ... don't know why they wouldn't just wear Power Armour.
But a Power-Armoured united of the redeemed with Eviscerators sounds really awesome. Making them not-unwieldy would be terrifying, though.

>>20762445
Uh oh.

>>20762301
Also, when you hunt a powerful rogue psyker, you will some kind of antipsy for him AND bolts for his minions.
SoB and SoS (?) will work fine together, but fluffwise I don't know much of the original role of the SoS.

File: 1347920471901.jpg-(99 KB, 394x599, 394px-Throne_of_Judgement(...).jpg)

They should get this guy back for sure.

>>20762516
They were there to help take down psyker races and it seems they also judged human psykers too.

File: 1347920584149.png-(1.14 MB, 1024x768, furious_sororitas.png)

>>20762515

It's a faith thing, faith prevents them from taking arm and to wear armour would be to disregard that faith.

Also a shoutout to old codex when sisters could turn their armor save invulnerable and suddenly lose all saves against oldschool psycannons.

>>20762515
True, power armour would make sense, if not artificier armour.

(This way we could theoretically solve the "boobplate/non boobplate dilema. Boob-plate can be for artificier armour, like how muscleplate is for marines)

>>20762560
No, Boobplate is for all Power Armour.

This is not negotiable.

>>20762560
But I want boob plate to be standard. It would be like taking the pauldrons away from Space Marines, or the cone heads from the Eldar.

>>20762576
That's cool, I just wanted to throw it out there as an option.

>>20762461
I thought Custodes were to Grey Knights as Grey Knights were to Space Marines. What with the whole "each custodes has gene modifications tailored specifically to them".

>>20762560
No. No non-boobplate. There is no dilemma.

>>20762445
>Custodes will be getting stats in the HH Black Library books eventually.
Makes sense since they'll eventually get to Prospero and Sisters of Silence and Custodes ought to get models and stats.

>>20762586
It is, but many Grey Knights players are largely in denile about this fact because GREY KNIGHTS ARE THE BEST DRAIGO ROOLZ.
Sorry, I'm betraying my prejudices here.

I know everyone hates Terminator Sisters, but, just in a theoretical, if GW says that Termie Sisters are a must, how would you make them un-Marine-y? I think melee-flamer focus would do the trick, but apparently you disagree.

>>20762586
>I thought Custodes were to Grey Knights as Grey Knights were to Space Marines.

You thought wrong, I guess. Blood Games puts them about the same, and Grey Knights are supposed to put regular Marines to shame, so Custodes also. Additionally Custodes got spanked by Sorcerer Marines, which is what the Grey Knights are.

>What with the whole "each custodes has gene modifications tailored specifically to them".

Yes, it was an earlier process before the Emps figured out how to into Marines, who can be made faster.

>>20762623
>It is

Sauce.

>>20759949

Fuck reasonable.

This is 40k, where you make your dead war heroes into cyborgs and use them to battle angry mushrooms.

>>20762623
Eviscerators, jump packs, stormshield/rosarius. Hand flamer side arm. You can't use eviscerator the same turn you use the hand flamer to wall of death.

>>20759949
They already have boobplate and to be honest it isn't the worst offender in the setting.

Boob plate must stay, fuck this reasonable armour fetish that's been going around /tg/.

>>20762701
I like both in the proper time and place.

40K is not the proper time and place for reasonable anything.

>>20762687
>>20762701
>>20762721
Okay, okay ... let's not descend into boob-arguing. We're not really talking aesthetics in this thread anyway.
The Revelation and the Brimstone. Thoughts?

>>20762701
yes, lets continue to make our hobby look like it was designed for 30 year old virgins

>>20762754

I think you need to make sure it doesn't just come off as 'Stormraven Mk 2'. Still, 'Flier' is general enough these days that it should be possible.

You might need to give a reason why it's NOT Imperial Navy though. As the Imperial Navy gets irked at other people having their toys.

File: 1347921951607.png-(112 KB, 463x301, You wut.png)

>>20762796
>taking 40K seriously

>>20762796
If you can't deal with it maybe you should leave it and do something else.

>>20762802

Maybe the Prontarus found it? It's not a new design, it's an old one that's only just coming back into production. Sisters get it because they found it.

File: 1347922180521.gif-(139 KB, 720x600, sisters4[1].gif)

Would like the Arcaballista to actually make an appearance.

>>20762802
A good point. I think a Sisters flier should have a more less military and more gothic look. Pointy Arches as jet intakes, an elaborate statue on the nose, etc.

As for why it's not Navy, I'd say because the Sisters need to operate them even when the Navy is not present, so that even the most isolated Shrine-World has some kind of aerial defence/responce. Or, you could just say they're a holdover from the age of apostasy, when Goge Vandire was all "fuck da rules!"

>>20762841
This is also a brilliant idea.

>>20762845
Equipment for the Malakhim/Pronatus?

>>20762880

Vandire could be a good explanation. He spent a STUPID amount of money on the most pimping air support he could.

The modern version? It's TONED DOWN from what he designed, as the Sisters found his original design too over to top.

Make it a fun little fluff piece that a hypothetical Age of Apostasy one...is something so gothic and overblown that they managed to conciser it too over the top in universe.

File: 1347922661584.jpg-(37 KB, 700x525, 18[1].jpg)

>>20762899
Yeah i'd ideally like to be able to take squads of them and give them a strength of 4 or 5. Snipers could actually be fun 6th with a little effort on GW's part. I just think of them like the crossbow from half life 2 except all kinds of fucking holy!

Make the Revelation an upscaled version of the more common Aquilla, keeping the Aquilla's signiature sweeping wings.

It was specially requested by the Ordo Hereticus for the Sisters from the Adeptus Mechanicus, and features wards built into the hull, to ward off psyker interference, in case they attack, or they need to transport them.

>>20762946
I think you might be taking "pinning" a bit literally.

File: 1347923084262.jpg-(98 KB, 800x1066, 224521_md-Senintel, Siste(...).jpg)

>>20759965
No terminator armour, puts them even closer to marines in terms of unit composition. Could give them artificer armour and maybe a storm shield though.
>>20759974
Again, making a lightly armoured scout unit brings them closer to being MEQlite, but sisters do obviously need a second troop choice.
>>20759977
Bring back the immolators fire point and firing heavy flamers on the move. Like the idea for the aircraft though, sounds a bit like a more military focused aquila lander.
>>20759995
I know I keep saying not to make sisters more like marines, but I do love me some bike models.
>>20760005
If you take a close look at the retributor models they do actually have some sort of support system around their arms. Sisters power armour does also increase their strength, although not to the same degree as a marine.
>>20760020
A new battle tank is good idea, there's plenty of new melta,flamer and bolter based weapons that other imperial codexes have access too that haven't made it to the sisters codex yet for obvious reason, like melta cannons and inferno cannons, which would make nice options for it.
The pronatus is also I really cool idea, I'd imagine them as a cross between a questing knight and Indiana Jones, scouring the galaxy for lost treasure in a holy quest.


One thing I'd like to add to the codex would be a lightly armoured walker based off the penitent engine, basically replace the torso of the robot with something like the immolator turret so you get something a bit like pic related, but with arms. equip it with a heavy flamer and CC weapon by default, with options to upgrade to heavy bolter or MM.

>>20762969
>>20762930
>>20762841

These are all great explanations. Though the Vandire one has me laughing at a bright purple flier with 'Pimp' on the side in gold.

Maybe give the Brimstone weapon options similar to a predator infernus?
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_infernus.pdf

>>20760376
>>20760362

Sisters are probably more popular than dark eldar were before their update, probably more popular than grey knights were as well.

>>20763046
>Scouts
I don't really think of the Malakhim as "scouts" per-se, more long range support. I imagined them more like Eldar Rangers than Space Marine Scouts, TBH.
>Bikes
Now, I don't get why people think Bikes are particularly "Marine" ... I know Marines have bikes, but it's not something they're particularly famous for. I think Sister Bikes/Knights would be really cool, particularly with Power Lances (which are in the rules, but don't really have models yet).
>New Tank
Glad you like it! I agree that the new melta/flamer guns need to go in the codex. A tank option is a good idea.
>Walker
Now THAT I really like. That's sort of what I wanted to put in the list instead of Penitent Engines, but was worried people would just go "waaa! It's just like a Dreadnaught! Too much like Marines" which is an attitude that kind of annoys me. People really can't imagine Terminators being used in a new interesting way?
Look at MegaNobz. They're basically Terminator Clones, but no one goes around complaining about them.

>>20763158

I think you'd want to keep the SOB version at 'War Walker', not 'Dreadnaught'. Lightly armoured, a decent bit of gun, cheap.

I've always thought that the SOB feel more 'Eldar' than 'Marines' in a lot of places like Seraphim.

File: 1347923845578.jpg-(138 KB, 800x680, transport.jpg)

There needs to be more unique Ecclesiarchy units, and confessor-themes. Like.... a chariot of some kind?

Sisters on chariots pulled by what, though...


Hmmm... oh! How about a transport, not just any transport, but a massive, heavily armored and bejeweled gold-lined version of THIS with the Fleur-de-lis on the doors! And of course heavy flamers and other gadgets.

...artfags, draw this maybe?

Anyone think the FW Exorcist and the GW Exorcist should be 2 different units?

FW Exorcist is the normal exorcist, fires direct missiles
GW Exorcist is an artillery unit

>>20763239
Yes... provided they aren't both called exorcists.

>>20763218
Step 1: Buy one.
Step 2: Buy SoB decals.
Step 3: Paint.
Step 4: Post images to 4chan.
Step 5: ????
Step 6: Profit!

>>20763239
Is it weird that I'd think of them the other way around?

File: 1347924210793.gif-(67 KB, 427x305, Arbites_Necromunda_Enforc(...).gif)

I'd like to see Arbites thrown into the Sisters dex, if only because they have nowhere else to go. IG dex is too full as it is, they'd just get lost.

>>20763272
Well I guess the FW exorcist is pretty much a Whirlwind rip off

>>20763288
I hadn't even thought of that!
While I'd love to put them in, we'd need some kind of explaination as to why they're here rather than with, say, IG.

>>20763288
They WERE with the witch hunters dex already, so why not

>>20763308

Because when you need someone to hunt down heretics in a hive, the Sisters call on the Arbites, as the police are best for hunting down heretics there.

>>20763315
Cause the Ordo Hereticus rolls with the Grey Knights now.

>>20763329
It's simple ... but logical.

Okay, Malakhim are gone (which is a shame as it's an awesome name) and Arbites are in. The can take an Oppressor as a Dedicated Transport.

>>20762253

Sister of Silence and Sisters of Battle serve together on the Black ships, fluff support for getting them in the army is pretty simple.

>>20763350

Repressor. Not Oppressor. They are not QUITE that blatant.

>>20763218
You see the lines between each of the plates on the back? Run a flying buttress up above ech of them connecting to a chapel of sorts.

>>20763350
>>20763329
Also when a planet is attacked or revolts the Arbites forttress and Sister's convent (There are usually convents on every world) are often the best strongpoints so they end up working together.

>>20763350

I'd give Arbites a few options. Start with shotguns, can upgrade to sniper rifles or power mace. No 'Special Weapons' but versatile main weapon options.

>>20763415
Special weapons would be a heavy stubber that can be either Heavy 3 (Maybe four) or Assault 2.

Plus Grenade launchers and flamers (Sisters should be the most cost effective flamer platform since it's their army and their trademark of course).

Also Rhino, repressor, and Chimera should all be transport options.

>>20763415
I like is. What would a power mace be on the battlefield? A power maul? A normal CC weapon? +1 str but no armour pen? Latter makes more sense as it's supposed to be a "take them alive, but battered" sort of weapon.

File: 1347925208622.jpg-(221 KB, 1356x589, arbites mod.jpg)

>>20763449
Well Shock maces would be one thing for the grunts maybe count as poison CCW for the stun chance? The leaders would be able to pack Power Mauls or "Heavy power Mauls" counts as fists.

>>20763449
Well, I'm going to bed now. Keep this thread Alive /tg/! (Or archive it if it dies)

>>20763158
>Scouts
Fair enough, I was probably just jumping to conclusions
>Bikes
I think it's just power armour+bolter+other equipment marines use do just make it look like they are sharing unit ideas, but as I said I do love bike models and as long as they do something different from how marine bikes are used then it's all cool. Plus it's a good excuse to produce bikes for regular sized humans, and what is more 40k that battle nuns riding motorbikes?
>Walker
Well I imagined the walker as being more of a scout fast attack type unit. The sisters are an army that needs to stay mobile to bring it's short ranged weaponry to bare, but currently has no platform for mobile heavy weapons which is basically the niche I wanted the walkers to fill.

>>20763218
I would really like to see a new tank hull being used since outside of forgeworld imperial armies are all sharing the same 3 hulls. A massive transport with an assault ramp would really help the fragile CC units that sisters have as well.

>>20763350
Keep the Malakim as the name for the Pronatus unit.

>>20763531
And an excuse to make a treaded cathedral

>>20763541
The Pronatus are already a canon Order of artifact hunters.

Malakhim is hebrew(?) for Angel.

Going to bed for serious this time.

>>20763569
Well yeah, I know, but well, I know you have "Hospitalliers", and similar, but they're non-combat roles.
I was just meaning that the Pronatus would probably have several types of members. The researchers, and then there could be the Malakim, who're the militant ones.

Give Sisters the option to take Ogryn. Because Ave Bob and Ave Imperator.

>>20763657
Cute, but not really in the sisters MO.

>>20763854
> implying it couldn't be spun to be Sisterly
Ogryn are childlike and simple. Children are blindly devoted to mother figures, cruel, and generally sociopathic. Who better to turn into an army of murderous fanatics than a bunch of 500-pound children?

>>20763531
So .. a sentinel ?

>>20763897
They are also Abhuman and looked down upon by people in direct correlation with their faith

>>20763569

Pronatus Malakhim? The Malakhim are the one who do dangerous retrievals, or explore hostile worlds. The 'Adventure Archaeologists' with non-Malakhim as the 'Real Archaeologists' that sit and study stuff.

>>20763158
>MegaNobz
To be fair, orks have a history of ripping off other races.

>>20764040

Some where between a killakan and a sentinel

>>20764892

I would have said Warwalker and Sentinel myself.

>>20762969
Delicious, I like it.

bump for ideas.

This got tossed in a thread a while back about the same topic: A ranged penitent engine. Give it heavy bolters and have it act a lot like a Chaos Dread (Should). It goes berserk and just shoots every enemy it can until they are dead or the ammo drum clicks dry.

Perhaps a special character Penitent Engine? One where they are trying to die gloriously for the emperor...but every time they walk out of the battlefield battered, bruised and alive.

>>20769694
Back.
Problem with this is ... well, if you've found someone guilty of defying your laws and codes, would you *really* put them in charge of a shooty deathmachine? I mean, I always felt the the idea of the Penitent Engine was silly [even if they are chemically forced to feel guilty, I think it's a bit of a liability ... why not just put a sister in it?] but when they were melee only you could at least use the excuse that you could blast it if it went rogue.
Then again, these are just my opinions, and if you guys think it's good, it can go in.

Still not ready to buckle of TermiSisters just yet.

>>20769810
Which is why I was fond of the Sisters of Battle War-Walker, previously mentioned. I'll write some fluff for it later.

>>20769866

Eh, I like it myself. Mainly because they are supposed to be mostly under control (At least in a 'kill these people' way)

Still, if another walker is made, it could work for that. Still, I'd prefer it as a Penitent Engine Variant Myself.

>>20769810

Termisisters are a bit too 'Marine'. Bikes or walkers or fliers? Yeah, most armies have that. But Terminator Armour? That stuff is just a bit TOO specific.

I like the Artificer Armour idea though. Sisters have a natural 6+ inv save, so a SOB in Artificer is only SLIGHTLY worse than one anyway (Less slow, too)

Would you be opposed to an AoF that allows dedicated units to teleport?

>>20770585
AoF as in Act of Faith?

Teleportation strikes me as rather ... chaosy ... but I'm not opposed to the idea, no.

>>20770585

It seems a bit blatant for all but the most 'D&D cleric' of the Sisters.

As an aside, that wouldn't be a terrible special character. A support one with several acts of faith, not much combat potential and maybe

Charge of Guardianship: As long as this character is joined to a squad, they are not considered a character for the purpose of challenges.

Maybe the leader of all the Sisters? Too old, even with rejuvat to fight as well as she used to...but a symbol of the purist, most powerful faith.

>>20770773
I was thinking about the Abbess ... the problem with reintroducing her is:
1) It means all the Sisters are Unified, at least in some sense, which goes against the idea of them being a widespread part of the Imperium with a large amount of variation. Both are still possible, but it begs the question: What would she think of them? If a certain Convent doesn't abide by a particular ruling are the heretics? Is it permissible? How much is too much?
2) If we do include the Sensei (and I REALLY want to) how would she view them? Why wouldn't all the Sisters follow her? How blatant is her condemnations of the ones that aren't?

Honestly, if the Abbess were a Special Character, I'd want her to be combat oriented. With Kyrinov and Uriah Jacobs the Sisters already have two less combaty/more inspirational types ... this goes to three if we put the Throne of Judgement Inquisitor back in. As it stands, other than the Living Saint, there isn't a character whose just a really amazing Sister. I'd like to see the Abbess take that role.

>>20770906

Perhaps. If she was combat, I'd like to see her NOT just be melee beatdown. I'd like to see her be ranged. Sisters are a Ranged Army, they should have a character that fits their combat strategem.

Perhaps leave 'D&D cleric' for an upgraded Hospitaler/Prontarus

>>20770906
It depends on how high scale of heresy you want to put the Senseis. Obviously they aren't the part of the church's core teachings. I guess that the Sister high command could view them as weapons of war, bit like how Imperial Guard views the rank and file psykers. The priests could be more against them though. Another thing would be making the Sisters divided, there is no high command and some orders view Senseis as asset and theologically important while others view them as false prophets and heresy.

The Sensei concept needs some spinning though as just porting the old fluff with Starchild and shit doesn't really fly in the current system where major plot elements like the true nature of the Emperor are left undiscussed. I would be fine going with rare pious males able to use faith powers in a focused manner and keep them anomalous individual actors closely tied to the inquisitors believing in the reincarnation of the Emperor through mortal vessel.

>>20770982

Perhaps she is 'In deliberation'. Basically unable to make a decision EITHER way because it would tear the Ecclessiarcy apart to have it's most powerful part have a vastly different view to the priest themselves (Priests are mostly against, Sisters are mostly for...but can't officially declare so it's left up to individual Sister groups.)

>>20770982
That was my thought. I wanted to move away from "Sons of the Emperor" in the interest of something more vague. Are they his sons, or something more closely related? Are they psychicly linked? Why have they come about now? Naturally, we'd leave these questions unanswered.

I'd make it clear in the fluff that the sensei in Sister armies are only a small portion of those returning, most of whom either get murdered by those in the Imperium that view them as a threat, or tread their own path as adventurers and whatnot. However, when approached by radical Priests that offer them power [or, y'know, reveal that they are demigods] some will embrace it.

I'd also like to make Sensei multi-gender, just because I think 40K needs more female influence, and Sisters seem like the perfect army for the job.

>>20771011
I like this idea. She has an opinion, but going either way would cause a Civil War ... and we all know how those end up.

>>20771047

Pretty much. She's not JUST a religious leader. She's a smart politician too. She knows that there might be an official decision some day...but now? The Imperium needs to not fight itself more than it needs that decision.

>>20771059

People choosing sanity over fighting in 40k? What is this madness?

>>20771042
If Sensei are all male it is easier to insert vague guessing of them being (or getting power from) Emperor's soul bleeding through warp or something like that. They were Sons of Emperor before and even though it doesn't really work in literal sense anymore it is still ok concept. Bringing social justice and equal opportunity to 40k probably won't do anyone any good.

In any case I would want them to having more flashy Acts of Faith than the rest of the army. I suggested teleporting yesterday (>>20762216) but an offensive Act like the Brimstone Cloud from DoW might be cool too.

As special characters, I think we need :
- The cc/short range angel : Celestine. The one who fall from the sky to save the day.
- a inspirational character, maybe not a sister, sensei or not, who make people feel something like what is described in The Saint of the Gaunt's Ghosts series.
- a fanatic : Uriah Jacobs
- The abbess, which is a good idea, some kind of super sister gamewise ?
- maybe a repentant character ?
- maybe a pretending-to-be-faithful character ? like a cynical confessor who only seek power or whatever sin ? Some sort of anticlerical caricature. A weak character who have many safety device to stay alive and special rules to represent his network. A dickery character that your opponent will hate and despise.

>>20771197

>maybe a pretending-to-be-faithful character ? like a cynical confessor who only seek power or whatever sin ? Some sort of anticlerical caricature. A weak character who have many safety device to stay alive and special rules to represent his network. A dickery character that your opponent will hate and despise.

Ooh, that I like. Make him a right PRICK because he has all the contacts. He's the sort who can make a call, call a man who knows a man...and bribe some cultists of low faith to help cause a 'Malfunction' in a chaos ritual or with the teleporter.

He's 'That evil corrupting cult leader'...if he never stopped working for the Imperium.

Maybe let him 1/turn PICK which enemy reserves unit comes in instead of the one the enemy rolled for as the right money changes hands or the right assassins stab the right people in the back of the logistics train...

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>>20770663
>AoF as in Act of Faith?
>
>Teleportation strikes me as rather ... chaosy ... but I'm not opposed to the idea, no.

Orkz, Termies, Necrons and (in the games) Blood Raven commanders use is too.
There's also a Librarian ability called Gate of Infinity that transports the user across the battlefield via the Warp.


>>20771108
Dunno about herp derp equality, but somewhere above someone suggested blurring the "sons" to "descendants"/"of the Emperor's bloodline" on the basis of the information contained in Lost And The Damned.

In short: this could be done without going CAT-GIRL SPACE MARINES-tier retard.

>>20771234
>>20771197
So he's the "Bene Qui Latuit Bene Vixit" Inquisitor counterpart in the Ecclessiarchy?
I can dig it, especially if it causes more straightforward Imperial functionaries throw shitfits due to their "improper attitude".

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this thread is bad.

Boob plates need to stay. And why wouldnt they? slaneesh has thier tits out, let the SOB atleast show that they are females instead of making boring realistic choices, this is Warhammer 40,000 not Warhammer 2012 stop being PC nancy boys and indulge in some sexy minis with high heels, boob plates and bad ass bolters

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>>20771297
> high heels
Come on dude...
Maybe death cult assassins could get away with that, but Sisters?
Image remotely related to how the new units could turn out.

>>20771329
Sisters are supposed to be the second most baroque army in the game, second only to Chaos Legions.

Anyone who wants to give them anything functional looking is either a retard, tumbrl user or a bad person.

>>20771297
What? I've been arguing for Boob-Plate this whole time. I think Heels are great, particularly on important characters. Look at the Original SoB Codex cover.

>>20771234
I like this idea. Other than being a conniving bastard, what's special about him? What's he in charge of? Why is he more important than any of the other thousands of Ambitious Confessors?

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>>20771329
ok scrap the heels but keep the boob plate

SOB should be SuckerPunch meets 40k
they are the sexy side of 40k and always have been. Not all armies should be the same and removing the sexual nature of SOB, bleh! you might as well make them vanilla marines while your at it

And I realise that modern society discourages any sexual thoughts but frankly repressing things is not healthly like I said these are 40,000 minis not 2012 minis, fuck modern repressive/submissive society this is GRIMDARK!

Next thing the Imperial army will be fighting climate change and only drinking organic fair trade coffee

>>20771412
youre all good, but this thread is full of momma's boys

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>>20771428
Hell Yea!

This is now how I Sisters of Battle

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>>20771428
>modern society discourages any sexual thoughts

>>20771477
Its less then it used to be, advertising is a pretty good counter-example though those guys know how to sell sex.

the decline is more sublte than that

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>>20771428

lost my shit at:
>Next thing the Imperial army will be fighting climate change

I can see the Iqusitor Gore now leading the charge against climate change and the Chaos Manbearpig daemon

>>20771428
Not sure about Sucker Punch, but I fully support the Joan of Arc/dominatrix look.

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>>20771530

EXCELSIOR!

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Have you seen this abomination Guardsman?

>>20771494
It's more about compartmentalizing where sexuality is ok and where it's not. If it's for selling things or a few other reasons, it's ok, if not "think of the children !"

Otherwise, thanks for derailing a fine thread to argue on a already dead debate.

>>20771530
> climate change
Tzeench work.

>>20771370
I see your point and accept it as worth considering, but could you PLEASE keep Tumblr out of this?

Polite sage for cranky meta.

>>20771546
>was bored at work today and thought about Sisters of Battle and how I'd update them... (OP's post)
>Derailing thread

>pick one

/tg/ is full of the best people and I love discussions with you guys but I'm FIRMLY against changing the looks of SOB, boobplate and heels are GrimSexyDark and although I dont field them I admire that GW is'nt just catering to 10 yr olds which are the bane of our hobby.

Fluff needs fixing = hell fucking yes, thanks very much WARD

Aesthetics need 'updating' = hell no

stay grimdark /tg/!

>>20771606
I'm pretty sure that you'd rather have a full Warddex than the current one where the rules are made by Cruddace and the fluff is lazily copied from the 3th edition book.

>>20771617
Couple new novels and Codex repairs are in order for the fluff, but I reiterate...no Aesthetic changles please

>>20771412

>Other than being a conniving bastard, what's special about him? What's he in charge of? Why is he more important than any of the other thousands of Ambitious Confessors?

I'd make his Official power actually rather low. He's just a confessor as far as the official line goes.

Unofficially? He has made or broken MANY people who would surpass him officially. He's a power player in the politics of the Ecclessiarchy. He controls the shadow actions, the backroom dealings and the secret alliances.

He's the Ecclessiarcys spymaster...and holds more power unofficially than a dozen cardinals.

>>20771197
>The Abbess
You can't use the Abbess as a special character. She's sometimes a High Lord of Terra and currently missing in the fluff.

>>20771606
>Fluff needs fixing = hell fucking yes, thanks very much WARD

Ward has hardly even touched them. When he did he made them supa pure.

>>20771783
Eh? He removed their affiliation with the Inquisition that actually made sense and cut their numbers drastically.

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>>20771329
> high heels
>Come on dude...
>Maybe death cult assassins could get away with that, but Sisters?

Clearly they must wear painful heels as a reminder that they must walk the path of righteousness!

>>20771833
>He removed their affiliation with the Inquisition

He didn't, he just put the Inquisition into the Grey Knight codex, Sisters are back where they were in 2e.

>cut their numbers drastically.

There were never any solid numbers to cut.

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>>20771428
> modern society discourages any sexual thoughts

>>20771862
You've said it yourself that he folded all the Inquisition into the Grey Knights codex. So yes he did. Even if they were only tenuously affiliated before he still reverted it and made it harder for players to use a Witchhunter style army.

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>>20771857
Clearly the same reason why they wear corset armor.

>>20771932
Nothing was stopping them from being in both codexes, Cruddace could have put them in, but he didn't. they might get them back, or maybe not. I think it's better that they have the Ecclesiarchy having more focus once again.

>>20771958
They aren't getting more focus. They are getting the same amount. They didn't add anything new and only put back a couple of special characters. They didn't even put Frateris Militia back. They could have put Redemptionists in. Those still have models being sold. It was just half-assed and pleases no-one.

>>20772045
>They are getting the same amount.
They got Ecclesiarchy HQs, and an Inquisitory henchmany type unit.

>Frateris Militia

Are banned in fluff.

>Redemptionists

Are a Necromunda unit.

>It was just half-assed and pleases no-one.

It's a White Dwarf codex, and Ward just wrote the fluff.

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>>20771197

>maybe a repentant character

I would quite like to see some sort of head of the Repentia Mistresses, who would let you take repentia as a troops choice.

Also managed to find a pdf of the citadel journal where repentia first made an appearance, it also has rules for drop podding sisters and a couple of special characters, Praxedes and Helena if anyone would like me to post them

>>20772117
>Frateris Militia
>Are banned in fluff.
No they aren't because they aren't an organisation run by the Ecclesiarch and they include groups suck as the Redemptionists.

Kyrinov and Jacobus should never have been dropped after 2nd ed. in the first place.

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>>20772411

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>>20772422

Posting the strike force rules for anyone who's interested.

This was written for the army list from the chapter approved compendium I believe

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>>20772455

>>20772411
>Repentia Mistresses, who would let you take repentia as a troops choice.
That would be mad and it's not really their thing to grab objectives. Still wold be a fun list.

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>>20772491

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>>20772507

Yeah, thought it might just be fun for a penitent army, penitent engines, reptenia as troops, bring back flagellants for elites, all the ecclesiastic sideshow elements.

>>20772455
Well this lays to rest the claim that it was just Codex: Witch Hunters that joined the Ordo Hereticus and SoB.

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>>20772556