http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Blood_Jaguars
1d4chan page.

Also, I really like the idea of the librarians using pain and sacrifice as part of their powers.

Awesome. I might contriboot a little. What's the structure of the chapter like? With the heavy focus on melee combat, do we have dedicated Assault squads?

Damnit. WP7 won't let me copy my story.
Someone mind reposting it?

>>20152081
Yes. We don't have Devastators at all. Should add that to the Deathwatch rules. Our Tacticals also have Chainsaw bayonets on their bolters. Scouts do CQC more than long range sniping.
>>20152142
I'll do it. Gimme a second.

>>20152187
So scout squads are mostly shotguns and grenade launchers / flamers?

>>20152218
I'd assume so. Better for the dense jungle.
>>20152187
Being chosen to become a Blood Jaguar is not an easy thing, as they look only to the 'secret' fighting pits of the hives, only choosing those that bring themselves from the very bottom to very top to possibly become a part of their ranks.
Things do not get better nor easier once someone has been chosen to be initiated, as then they are only given a simple set of instructions:
Collect a large Mortem Sacco pod
Go to the top of the Temple of Gods and Kings
You may only use what you find and make in the forest

>>20152228
The jungles of Tenocit are well known for being seemingly actively hostile to anything that could be considered an intruder, making even simply not being killed an arduous task, let alone survival and travel.
While Mortem Succo can be found on nearly every root based plant on the planet, finding one of their toxin pods is near impossible due to the money they are worth. Large pods are rare without them being collected, as well.
Once the hopeful has obtained the Mortem pod, they must travel to and up through the Temple of Gods and Kings, the original hive spiral where the Blood Jaguars fought a warp incursion and the very tower Xipet defeated a daemon prince upon. It is believed to contain horrors beyond imagine and be more dangerous than the terrifying jungle. A hopeful who has not armed them self well would surely die in the temple.
Once they have arrived to the top of the temple, they will see only a single figure standing there, looking away from them, not reacting at all.
The only way to draw their attention is to go in front of them and present the Mortem pod, to which they will start questioning the candidate.
After a while of questioning, the figure will direct them to crack open the tough pod and eat it. Doing so normally causes bad delirium, constipation, then death. Those that do survive have only vague recallings of what happened during their delirium.
Most recall hearing their seeming killer saying "A hindrance in this life. May you be a boon in the next. Praise be to the Sun-Emperor." while seeing and feeling them plunge a dagger into their guts, then feeling their life fade away.

There are rumors that even women will be inducted to this ritual, and they being treated no less than a man in it.

So does anyone have a physical description of the chapter masters and other important Blood Jags? I wanna do some headshots at least.

Are we still going with 'everything chain-. Everything.'?

>>20152328
Chapter Master is in a Dred.
I'm assuming the Head Apothecary/Death Company Chaplain is the most normal looking one.
Second Company Commander likely has facial tattoos of some sort.
Head Librarian likely has facial scarrification and tattoos.
Reclusiarch just looks skeletal. He's OLD.

>>20152363
Are we doing a tan skinned complexion for the most part? No nazi jungle Aztecs right?

>>20152413
Yeah. Tan skinned. Or are Blood Angels usually pale? Otherwise, go with tanned.

>>20152437
Sounds good.

>>20152363
Does anyone have the chosen description of the CMs dread and sarcophagus?

Gonna do a write up on the Mortem Sacco.
Anyone mind doing one for The Tower of Gods and Kings? If anyone does, remember that Xipet KICKED THE DAEMON FUCK OFF IT after the battle.

>>20152288

>" making even simply not being killed an arduous task, let alone survival"

Same thing

>>20152470
That just gave me an amazing and awe some scene idea.
A skinless, near broken Xipet carves into the Malalan daemon prince with his personal knife then shoves his hand into its chest, grabs onto the heart, and KICKS HIM OFF THE FUCKING TOWER to rip it out.
After, he holds it aloft for all to see with a roar. Then promply falls into a pile, because physics decided it was time to kick back in.
Yeah, he's a badass.

>>20150403
>Part of why they hate the scraplootas is because their usual tactics don't work though.
The reason terror tactics don't work on the Scraplootas isn't because they're orks, orks can be demoralized and frightened just like any other foe, albeit it's significantly harder (Being frightening enough to scare an ork is something the Blood Jaguars pride themselves on and a significant part of their reputation), the problem with the Scraplootas is that they're too damn unorganized to sow chaos and fear through their ranks. There ARE no ranks, just wave upon wave of grot running every which way and a few bigger orks taking advantage of the mess. Oh, and a zogging Titan. That could be another reason the Jags hate them so much: they make the Jags feel like complete and utter failures in the one place they've always risen above and beyond the other Chapters.

>>20152600
Nice. I like it.

Mortem Sacco
Mortem Sacco (commonly called "Deadly Life Bringer") is a very important and very common fungus of the Tenosit world.
Mortem Sacco is normally found on the ground next to rooted plants, and reaching into the roots.
Mortem Sacco looks very simple and plain. The most defining feature is the hard, bulbous sacks growing from it.
The most important function of Mortem Sacco is its ability to draw heavy metals, toxins, and other dangerous chemicals from ground and air and store them in its tough bulbs that can last decades to centuries.
Mortem Sacco has allowed Tenocit te be both a hive world and a very lush and dangerous forest world.
The bulbs have many different uses, making them very valuable. Some of the uses include refinement for the different chemicals and heavy metals it contains, and as a recreational drug due to the contained toxins.
Although Mortem Sacco is a very valuable plant for filtration, it is very reliant on the slightly heightened levels of oxygen and the natural toxins of Tenocit. This unfortunately makes it unviable for other hive worlds.

Yeah, that's a lot.

>>20153667
Nice write up. You adding it to the page?

>>20153667
HOLY FUCK, HOW DID I FORGET
>under uses
The Blood Jaguars are also believed to use the bulbs for their initiation ritual, how so is not know.
Due to the additional toxins and chemicals in the bulbs, there is no way to officially record the normal effects they have, but an overwhelming majority report delusions and hallucinations.
It is somewhat easy to overdose on the bulbs, with three medium bulbs being the normal count for overdoses.

>>20153797
The sections are way too haphazardly ordered for me. If you want to organize them and put it on the wiki, please do.

fluff suggestion, Marines find a planet with primitive/ early homonid species, (maybe use lotr orcs) that is overun with these fuckers that honor a monolith (relic) which is the prize, think jungle warfare with marines ripping through un-armored hordes of humans, just an idea.

Also we need more zombies!!

also also lets have some new shit come through the warp, the lost legions maybe?

>>20154061
...What?

Seems the other Jags are sleeping for now.

Do the people know about our rituals? This could eventually heavily effect my fluff. Luckily I've managed to stop that from happening so far, though.

>>20154129
fuckItriedImkindahigh.jpg

sorry. Just jumped in with fluff i was thinking of doing, just an idea. I guess you guys are all set though after reading all the posts, i prolly look pretty retarded right now huh

>>20154187
I'm assuming they think SOMETHING is off, but they don't know exactly what.

>>20154410
Okay, so it's like I've been doing.
There are rumors and ideas, but nothing solid or official.

>>20154237
We're open to all ideas, if we understand tem.

I've got Librarian fluff.

Remember how we said that the psykers are "meant for the Emperor's table" (That shit soooooo cash)?

Well, I'm thinking they might be a helluva lot more pious than is usual to be for a Librarian.

>>20154599
Yeah. Our librarians might actually act as sorts of enforcers. Weeding out warp corruption with the chaplains.

Yep, makes sense since ALL of them are.
And that was a great line. Why is it not on the wiki under a quotes section? (fuck adding stuff while on my phone)

>>20154722
Quote and quote section added.

>>20154885
Cool, thanks.

What are the thoughts on the alt name I gave for Mortem Sacco?
I thought of it, then realized it can be parsed two ways.

>>20154969
It's OK.

>>20155879
Any suggestions?

There are a lot of thing I know I want to mention, but I can't think of them right now.
Should we use the planet generator supplement to make our home?
I also know of a nice 3d planet generator.

>>20156111
Well, if you want to, go right ahead. I'm pretty tired right now.

>>20156266
I was planning on doing it tomorrow.
I'm tired too. Gonna sleep if MGNQ is a flasback again.

Well, while rooting around in 1d4chan, there seemed to be a /tg/-rolled CSM army by the name of Iron tyrants who also have an Aztec theme. Make of that what you will.

Neophytes and Initiates are required to aid the librarians in their rites by chanting, drumming and playing a host of pipes for hours on end.


Whether. allows the priest to better read and shape Warp, aids in concentration or is simply meant as a way to instill a sense of deep spiritual companionship is unknown.


I'm seeing this huge-ass Muhreen Psyker Priest with warp lightening crackling about his form, surroundedby dozens
of kids in bone masks covering the upper half of their faces and wearing little beyond a loin cloth and a crapload of skin paintings, making enough noise to wake a necron.

>>20157102
Where are the drawfag's when you need them?

>>20157102
*whether this aids
Herp-a-derp.

>>20156308

Found this in an art dump thread.

>>20157061
Chaos Aztecs < Space Marine Aztecs on the verge of becoming lost to the void.

>>20157727
I am going to use that maybe for a mask design. :D

Also Bump. Dont die thread!

>>20158170
Derp derp void =warp

On 1d4chan can anyone tell me what A Heritage of Hatred Excavated actually says? I cannot understand what is going on in that paragraph

>>20158272

The Jaguars were gonna finish off the guys who brought the daemon who killed their Chapter Master, but the orks got to them first and took the Chaos boys' massive Imperator. Simple as that.

Guy who wrote the planet and Hive history stuff here. Glad to see it's been well recieved, I've done a little more on the Fortress Monestary itself.

The Fortress Monastery of the Blood Jaguars sits atop the ruined Hive of Xolotl, deep in the untamed jungles of Tenocit. Formally the Hive governor’s palace, the Monastery is known by its local name of Tehuantepec, which loosely translated into low Gothic means “The hill of wild animals”. Another translation however is “The hill of Daemons”, and given the history of the Hive, this is quite fitting. The palace is situated on the site of the Blood Jaguar’s greatest victory; the defeat of the Daemon incursion lead by the Bloodthirster C’rtez. In the ruins of the governor’s mansion, the titanic warp spawn fought in single combat with T’otec, Chapter Master of the Blood Jaguars whilst his battle brothers engaged the daemon’s forces. Cornered, with no lines of retreat, every Blood Jaguar fought with unbridled ferocity, but it was T’otec who showed the greatest savagery. Though the Chapter Master’s skin was flayed from his body, he pressed on, and in one final move drove his barbed power fist deep into the daemon’s chest, and pulled out its still beating heart. With the death of their general the warp storm shuddered, and the remaining daemons fled into the immaterium, leaving the Blood Jaguars standing amidst utter destruction.

>>20158787

At the centre of the monastery sits the Chapter’s most prized relic: the heart of C’rtez, still held firm by the gauntlet that plucked it from the daemon’s body. A stasis field prevents the heart from being reclaimed by the warp, and it is said that if ever it beats once more, C’rtez has been reborn, and the Chapter will stop at nothing to hunt down and destroy the beast once more. On the walls that once held paintings and priceless trinkets, stone carvings tell the story of T’otec’s duel and the battle for the Hive, along with the history of the chapter. Where once the lord’s throne sat, a great alter has been erected, and it is here that heretics and daemons are sacrificed to the Sun Emperor.

File: 1343975327451.jpg-(476 KB, 1000x1400, BLOOD JAG CHAMP.jpg)

Bumping with an UNFINISHED champion/commander armor set. Throw me advice and crits.

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>>20158796
Whoa. Really like the still-clenched heart idea! Just for visuals sake, is the gauntlet holding the heart floating in stasis or like....erected out of a pedestal or something?

Also quick color pass on progress

>>20159563

I was thinking a stone pedestal with the gauntlet mounted on top, fingers upwards, with the heart held in a clenched fist. There's an energy field around it but not obviously visable. The gauntlet itself still has the blood on it.

Glad you like the idea. I thought it played very well into the whole sacrifice aspect, and the idea that they keep the heart there to prevent C'rtez from reincarnating.

>>20159611

Does the gauntlet still possess the arm of the original wearer? Maybe it emerges from a pedestal, in which the body of Xipet, the champion who defeated C'rtez has been entombed for millenia, mummified within his armor in the traditional Tenocitan manner.

>>20159655

Well according to the fluff we have so far, I thought it was T'otec the chapter master who defeated the Daemon, and was entombed in a sarcophagous afterwards.

I could be wrong of course; the fluff does change at a rapid rate. I'm just going off the 1d4chan page.

>>20159694
Well the chapter master is named Xipet T'otec, so it's unlikely there's a hand under that gauntlet. Unless after his collapse (and before he got stuck in a dread) someone cut his arm and gauntlet off.

>>20159736

Ah, so we're both right, we've just been referring to him by either his first name or surname. Excellent.

The scene I imagine is T'otec standing at the gates of the Palace, heart in his gauntleted hand, kicking the corpse of C'rtez off the side of the spire, and then collapsing, the rest of his armour in shredded ruin. The gauntlet falls to the ground, still holding the heart. It is retrieved after his brothers rush forward and get him to the apothacries, who put him in the Dreadnought. Before the body of C'rtez dissipates the gauntlet is placed in stasis.

I was just thinking about their Trials. The Black Road to the Sun was the working name for running naked into the jungle to find a feathered beast to kill, using whatever implements you could and wanted to make out there innajungle. Then you had to cut off their head, clean it up, cut out their heart, wrap it in a leaf, and return straight to the Chapter - no fucking sleep or dawdling, just get there. With skull, heart and if you used one, improvised killing tool.

But, I think that name, Black Road to the Sun, would better fit the spiritual pilgrimage that all Jaguars (and Sororitas (name?)) have to undertake to be fully adopted into the Chapter. Holy places of worship scattered around the jungle (guarded by Devastators? That was my suggestion, that they would have some, but they answer only to the Librarians and their primary purpose is guarding holy sites). Once one of these sites have been found, a Vision Quest-like contemplation begins, followed by a (perhaps incense- or drug-fueled) ceremony and/or mini-trial containing clues on how to find your way to the next pilgrimage site. Thus, you have a clear explanation for "Road", that it's "Black" refers to how you have not yet cleansed yourself through the "Sun", and how it will remain "Black" or "Not understood" unless you can "See the Sun" as in understand the mystery that will guide you along your way.
I'm thinking that initiates only have to take part of the course, full Jaguars can take a longer version with more trials, Librarians take an even longer version, etc. etc..

The ritual first mentioned in the post above ought, for reasons stated, be called something else. It's less of a spiritual journey and more of a challenge to prove you're a dangerous motherfucker who can use the jungle for your advantage, who can fight great beasts without giving into the Black Rage (which will indeed kill you as you stop using your head and these beasts ARE stronger than you), and because nobody is going to go up to you with a bunch of feathers and say "here, we got these from the poultry farm, tie them to your back". No, you get fucking naked, and you run out there into the jungle wearing and carrying nothing at all, you make what tools and garments you wish, extract whatever poison you like, and you find yourself a feathered beast whose plume is to your liking or that's large enough to be a reasonable challenge as you figure it in your weird Blood Jaguar-mind, and you kill it, cut off its head (this part can be scrapped, could take too long) and clean it, cut out its heart, wrap it in leaves, snatch as many feathers as you want, you tie those fuckers to you for wearing, and you head straight back to the Chapter with heart, feathers and improvised weaponry. And you are welcomed back like a champion.
Depending on luck and ambition, it can take anything from days to months to complete this. If you've done it once, which is a requirement, you can still do it again for as many times as you like, however there's less symbolic meaning to it, and more of a self-imposed challenge. Or to get new feathers after some ork burned your old ones.

>>20160698
Name... Why not just Earning Your/Ones/His/Her Feathers the times it's about the feathers, and when it's just to challenge yourself it's just Bloodying Yourself (collective name for all these dangerous challenges to test your mettle?) in the jungle or for a feather or something. Fighting an Ork in the arena pits could be Bloodying yourself in the pits, sort of like that.

>>20160699
Or bloodying your teeth or something. Hm, teeth... That sounds more like their chain-whateversword. Maybe just a sort of term used for an initiate's or Jaguar's first battle carrying the Chapter chainsword? Like getting your first kill or being in your first battle, that's often a semi-important distinction among soldiers.

>>20160784
Speaking of their sword, is it really important that it's got chains on both sides? I mean, it's more like the Aztec sword/club/whatever, but they are in the middle of a fucking jungle. So unless they carry a huge machete sidearm, I would sort of like want to see it with one side chain, one side blade. The blade doesn't even have to be extremely sharp, that way it's got nothing on a Jaguar's armour, meaning it can be safely pushed against in order to put greater strength into whatever needs to be done.

>>20160699

IDEA. The feathers are the Blood Jaguar version of purity seals. By proving yourself in these trials, you show that you have the strength to ward off corruption and defeat the enemies of the Sun Emperor, and you wear the mark of that proudly.

>>20160830
I think that part's more covered by Walking the Black Road to the Sun. The feathers sound more like a thing of collective pride, maybe a bit of camouflage (no need to pick the most brightly shining feather one can find after all (and camouflage is much about breaking up your recognizable shape/contours). Like how some soldiers in the same company will get the same tattoo, only here it's a requirement.

>>20160857
And because feathers tell a tale. To anyone with a bit of knowledge about the birds in their area, it doesn't take long to identify exactly what bird it came from. So it's a sort of "I slew THAT feathered beast using improvised tools to earn these feathers".

>>20160830
Although yeah, the whole feather thing DOES involve resisting the Rage. As rage won't help you against something that much fucking bigger and most likely more ferocious than you.

>>20158672
So, now it's that the Warband excavated the thing, and the orks took it from them? I don't really see any reason to have the Jaguars involved at that point. Why not just have the Warband (or the orks) find the thing (or steal it from the Warband), and that's that. Then later the Jaguars simply received reports, maybe from a scout team of their own, maybe not, that a Titan had been spotted, and the Jaguars recognized it by description or after their investigation into the matter made it apparent.
Or else I too have some difficulty accepting the whole thing. Why wait 200 years? From the text it sounds like the Titan had been used by the Warband the whole time? Isn't it a bit silly (in a bad way) that the Jaguars would just happen to arrive there at the time it changed hands?

>>20160830
I like this.
Normal purity seals would just make no sense. And we're divergent from the codex as all fuck anyways.

Is anyone working on our fluff consistency, by any chance?

>>20160830
>>20161137
Maybe make it a mark of being able to resist the Rage instead? As that's part of the whole aquiring the feathers thing, as well as the Rage being one of the more prominent dangers to Jaguars. Or at least make that part of it. Hm. I just sort of recalled that japanese (or chinese?) engraver guy who was put in prison, but began to engrave and inscribe text on insane stuff like single lengths of straw, even hair and stuff like that. You need a magnifying glass to even see that there IS a text.
Maybe there's one or two members whose main purpose is to engrave/inscribe text on the feathers? The, stems or whatever they're called. Maybe crippled Jaguars who aren't selected for sacrifice (if they do that?) are put to inscribe purity feathers?

>>20161047
The 'luck' thing is kind of for the scraplootas. Need to put their name in.
They had a fuckcrazy idea to capture a titan, and just by luck they attacked when chaos was already engaged.
Basically, Boris the Titan is set up to make us rage harder than the Angry Marines.

I'm the one that wrote the section. Sorry if I wrote it badly.

The Vision Quest probably plays a huge role in who the Jaguars are and how they do things.
Maybe each member withdraws to the jungle to meditate, pray and take hallucinagenic herbs once in their life, probably after surviving the conversion into a full marine.

>>20161373
I thought the Black Road was sort of like the vision quest. They seek out a particular beast, slay it, take part of it into themselves, and then consume the bulb of a hallucinogenic plant and are "reborn" into the chapter.

>>20161446
A vision quest is usually about finding yourself, attuning yourself with nature. Being fucked up on drugs and eating a beast to take on its properties sounds like the opposite of a vision quest, and I don't like the idea that such delusions would be seen as anything but extremely heretical, even by the Jaguars.

File: 1343998283312.gif-(357 KB, 120x120, 1343755539973.gif)

Man this chapter really turned out well, proud to have been in since the start of the first thread; plus I suggested Blood Jaguars.

>>20161473
Hm. I can see how such as thing can be misinterpreted into giving into blood- and powerlust. Yeah. The vision quests should be separate from the black road, post initiation thing. The road is more of an application and weeding out process, whereas vision quests would be about improving the self past that point.

Eating a beast or part of another being is fairly thematic though. A bit part of cannibalism in cultures where it exists is to symbolically imbibe the power of another through eating. Heart for courage, eyes for sight, stomach for strength, etc. How much this applies to aztecs and the Blood Jags though, i dunno. Havent seen much on the wiki or in the threads about the jags' attitude towards cannibalism, just sacrifice and worthy enemies.

>>20161137

I'm the one responsable for the two large fluff entries on the discussion page. I've tried to make them consistant with the existing fluff, but I'm hardly co-ordinating things. If there is someone in charge of that, I'll be glad to help out.

So current rituals:
The Black Road to the Sun- initiation ritual (get psycadelics, go to tower top)
Earning Your Feather- undecided reason (go and kill birds. Only birds you mean to kill)
Skull finder- undecided reason (kill a big ass beast, cut its head off and clean the skull then gets its heart out and wrapped in leaves without touching it. Must be completed in a timeframe)

>>20161550
There is no one. I'm not good at rewriting other peoples stuff.
If you would, please do.

>>20161551
So current rituals:
>The Black Road to the Sun- initiation ritual (get psycadelics, go to tower top)
I'd prefer finding and wandering between holy sites out in the jungle. Finding your way between the sites can only be accomplished after you've contemplated your place and your self, and the nature of your duty. Hm... The guardians at the sites aren't allowed to talk, or in any way interact with you? Either way, just going to the tower doesn't sound proper. It's just not isolated or connected to nature in the same way.
>Earning Your Feather- undecided reason (go and kill birds. Only birds you mean to kill)
Why only birds? Many, if not most or all, dinosaurs had feathers. There could be all manners of feathered beasts on this jungle planet. And why separate this quest from Skull Finder?

>>20161614
Quite possibly on that planet, the difference between birds and dinosaurs is a matter of opinion.

>>20161551

I've bodged up something for the Skull Finder. Let me know what you think.

One of the most sacred rituals of the Blood Jaguars is that of the Flayed Path, named after the duel between Chapter Master T’otec and the Daemon Lord C’rtez atop Xolotl Hive. First, the Brother sheds his blessed armour and may take only one weapon; a bladed power gauntlet, modelled after that which still clasps the heart of C’rtez. Next, the Brother’s flesh is whipped until he bleeds freely. Finally he is sent forth into the jungle. The scent of blood is enough to attract predators, and the Brother must vanquish them all until one of the great avians appears. The apex predators of Tenocit, these creatures move with lightning speed, lashing out with razor sharp talons and serrated beaks. A Brother must be quick, strong, and able to ignore the stinging pain from his flayed flesh. He must plunge his gauntlet deep into the chest of the predator and rip out its beating heart. Success brings great honour. Failure brings death.

Many Jaguars also remove the skull of the beast as a token of their victory. In this, the ritual diverges from its source material, as the skull of C’rtez does not adorn the walls of Tehuantepec. But there is an alcove reserved for it. Chapter legend speaks of the daemon one day returning, and if it does, its skull will be torn out and placed within the Fortress Monastery. Only then will the heart of the warp spawn be offered upon the Sun Alter.

>>20161624
I like it, but it sounds more like a punishment trial. Do you think it could be some sort of penance for unworthy behaviour? Or if there's an argument between Jaguars that can't be solved, both are sent out and whoever is most successful is declared the winner?

>>20161614
I like the idea of the black road being just given a simple list of instructions and have to work from there.
Wasn't the sanctum to sanctum planned to be innitiation for scouts?

The imortant part of earning your feathers is only going for feathers, and only killing what you plan to kill. So if you get attacked you're actually only allowed to retreat, teaching that not every battle is yours.

Skull finder is separate due to the time sensitive nature.

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>>20161614
>>20161624
I like the idea of waypoints as well. Perhaps at each waypoint there is someone waiting who explains part of what the journey means for the Jags. At the top of the Xoltol tower the guardian says nothing, and the aspirant is expected to reflect on their journey and figure out the next step?

I am not that great of a writer, so i will leave someone else to fix it, but the last paragraph under "Summary" talks about the chapter master killing the demon prince and being enterred into a dreadnaught. This has already been talked about like 2 paragraphs before.

>>20161646
>sanctum to sanctum
As in, not related to the vision quest? Could be that the same holy sites are for both purposes, only you visit different ones depending on the nature of your trial/quest. Either way, a Vision Quest is largely about finding yourself, finding nature, and finding your place and purpose among it all. So for a Neophyte not yet assigned to a specific role as a full member, that's perfect. The Quest will guide him towards the right path.
>>20161652
I like this as well. So for Aspirants, it's more about learning and understanding the overall duty of a Jaguar, strengthen their devotion to the Emperor, prove that they can simply survive and navigate the jungle. An introduction into the basics of what it entails to be a Jaguar.
Whereas, as stated earlier, the quest for a Neophyte is to cleanse them further and determine their role in the Chapter.

>>20161652
Hm, to keep with the open nature I want:
The instructions include something about the first spot, to help aspirant get there.
In each one, there is inscriptions on the wall explaining things little by little, and info for the next sanctum.
They're writen so the order is seemingly interchangable, and when they get to the top of tower one of the things they're asked is what they've learned on their journey.

>>20161643

The idea behind it is that they are re-enacting the duel that their Chapter Master fought. Like him, their armour is gone, their flesh is torn, and they have but one weapon to defeat an extremely powerful foe. They honour his memory and prove their own strength by achieveing this.

>>20161652

Checkpoints could work. I had originally planned the Flayed Path as a ritual for seasoned Blood Jaguars, or perhaps as an initiation into the First Company or whatever the equivilant of the chapter's Honour Guard is. I could see the Librarians at each step of the ritual retelling the story of the duel that day.

"Remove your armour Brother. Master T'otec fought the beast shielded only by his faith. You must do this too."

The Marine walks to the doors of the Monestary. Another Librarian awaits.

"Discard your weapons Brother. Take only this gauntlet. T'otec vanquished his enemy using only this. You must do this too."

The Marine descends through the Pyramid of the Gods until he reaches the jungle floor. A third Librarian awaits.

"Feel the lash on your skin Brother. Feel the pain of a thousand bleeding wounds, as T'otec did. Let your mind be focused. T'otec did not let his wounds stop him. You must do this too."

A Librarian will shadow the Marine as he seeks the avian. If the Marine is successful, the final passage will be read.

"You have defeated your foe, as T'otec did. You have walked his path and lived. You have his strength, his speed, his cunning. You are worthy.

>>20161721
Yep, the two sections also contradict each other on specifics.
Shit needs to be cleaned up.

>>20161731
Yeah but, there's such a thing as surviving as well. You'd have to go days with flayed skin to accomplish something like that - a jungle isn't exactly packed with predators. One large predator can have a territory that would take more than a day to traverse. And that there's a requirement to find such an extremely dangerous beast... I don't know, it seems so risky that it would end up sapping the strength of the Chapter, and they already have more than enough things keeping their numbers down. So I was thinking, instead of making it a challenge against yourself, which I imagine MOST Jaguars would want to try and thus die from, why not use it to solve internal disputes when they arise? That way it'll be used less often, and it'll fill a purpose other than emulating the great Xipet in a way which really won't do his deed justice at all. So the very act I see no reason at all to change, just why and when.

So did you guys see that your archnemeses have an origin story now?
http://pastebin.com/pDtzXp9G

Can someone tell me what OP was checking the rolls against in the 1st thread?

How did I miss this entire fucking thread until now?

>>20153117
That's sort of what I was implying when I said our usual tactics don't work.
Orks can be intimidated and we can do it but the scraplootas are stealthy and dismiss us without combat because they don't think we have anything they want.

We could scare them if we got into a protracted fight with them but they are good at hit and run, commando and human ( grot ) wave tactics.

The fact they stole a chaos Titan which belonged to the warband of the daemon prince that nearly killed our chapter master and are the very threat we were formed to deal with just adds to our massive hatred of them.

In short everything about the scraplootas pisses us off.

>>20161830
The rites of battle chapter creation rules iirc.

>>20161873
Hit and run is our forte as well though, or so I assumed given our habitual numeric inferiority and jungle warfare reliance. More of a ambush, fight like the wildcats we're named after, if they break we press even harder, if they don't we disappear with a diversion and wear them down until they break. We aren't about giving into the Black Rage, after all. That's the Flesh Tearers.

>>20161830
Rites of Battle.
>>20161794
Nice to know


Currently working on fluff consistancy. It's gonna be a hell of a job.

>>20162064
We do fall to it quite easily though.
And we are more ambush and smash, we don't generally fail once we start attacking because our combat doctrine leans mainly towards win or die.

At least that's how I have understood these threads so far.

>>20162093
We do fall to it a less than the Flesh Tearers do, but we're still very susceptable. After all, we ARE made of the geneseed of the Flesh Tearers.
>>20162064
A good summary.

>>20162138
Yeah, we have enough trouble with numbers as it is let alone our losses due to the black rage.

Really it is amazing the jaguars have survived given our results.

>>20162156
Sorry for deleting, just felt like a meaningless post somehow. And yeah, we have to tailor our rites, strategies and trials to a model that would and HAVE preserved our existence up until now. Look back in time and figure, "So what did they decide along the way until now that didn't end up destroying them before the 41st Millenium?"

>>20162186
Well given the rites we have laid down so far it is getting a bit hard to believe.
Maybe if they generally go a full campaign without losses due to superior tactics and ambushes etc we could have survived but we seem to have leaned pretty heavily on the flesh tearers rage and having brothers fall to both the rage and chaos.

So unless we want to put them as rarer occurrences than we have said until now we will be a dwindling chapter since we have made mention to how harsh our recruitment practices are

>>20162186
This is also the reason I'm a bit wary about having >>20161624
>>20161731
as a way of honouring Xipet. Almost all Jaguars would want to do it, and it'd just kill off too many. But the idea itself and the way it's done, I like, so I just want to see it used in another, less common and generally appealing context, like stated in >>20161786

>>20162235
As for the first bit, the really overwhelming rage bit only comes into play when they're facing the Scraploota's. Because of Boris. Doubly heretical in their eyes.

They're dwindling, but have a chance. They don't fall to the Black Rage as much as the Flesh Tearers, but the Red Thirst hits them much harder, hence, heart eating and shit.

>>20162235
No no, most our quests and trials have reasonably feasible survival turnout. And most of them are meant to in some way teach how to displace the Black Rage, rather than completely suppressing or giving into it. We don't really put our own under the knife (as far as I know(?)). Navigating through the jungle can be done, and you aren't supposed to be heading between holy pilgrimage sites before you've gained a lot of knowledge about plant life, wilderness survival and related things. We DO teach such things, or else nobody would survive beyond Neophyte.

>>20162296
Yeah I realize we get the rage less than the flesh tearers but we seem to have everything against us in terms of keeping our numbers up.

Boris and the scraplootas I think is a nice bit of humor in how much they make us rage but on the more serious side of things everything we have seems to lose us more marines, I realize that is part of the common perception of the Aztec people but it isn't really viable for anything with less than the recruitment / turnover of a guard regiment much less something supposedly as elite and hard to join as a marine chapter.

>>20162274
Would also like to add to this that the way I propose it, it IS meant to honour Xipet. They do it, after all, to measure how strongly you believe in the point you stand for. If one back out because it is not that big a deal to them that they'd run flayed through the jungle, then the one (if either one is, that is) who is ready wins through superior determination. If neither is, then the issue is not a big deal and they better resolve it pronto or forget all about it, or else they gun' get smacked the fuck up by their brothers.

>>20162321
This.

The rituals would be pretty pointless if they resulted in death nine out of ten times. A big part of the Jags is controlling the rage and thirst. That's what the vision quests and black road set up to are all about. It was stated in an earlier thread, but the Jags walk a fine line between blind bloodlust and focused ferocity. They give in enough to give them an edge in battle, but never the whole way. You never go full Rage. Those that do fall prey to the temptations, either the madness of the Rage or the path of Khorne are put down swiftly by their brethren.

>>20162321
I just suppose it is because there is always the mention of how lethal everything they do is makes it appear to me that we are losing marines quite badly.

Between the rage which is a steady loss if a bit slower than our progenitors, the loss of brothers to chaos and our chaiplains killing those who seem to be going into worship of the ruinous powers, the supposed loss of brothers who thought putting Xipotec into a dreadnought was a betrayal, and the idea that I don't know if we actually used for the first company never taking a step back once they are in combat.

It seems like we are either coming out of stupidly huge losses or have had a rather steady trickle of brothers leaving until it has bled us to this point.

>>20162408
The BJags are really characterized by their habit of walking fine lines.
We're also basically heretical and basically not chaos only because we follow Emps.

>>20162408
Well, those that fall prey to the Black Rage are thrown into the Death Company. Just saying. Otherwise, yeah, they pretty much kill any marine that falls to Khorne themselves. I think we discussed earlier that the Librarians are in charge of that along with the chaplains.

Surely Nurgle must be our most hated Chaos God? He stands for everything we hate on a less individual basis (like Boris).

Well, I doubt that those undertaking the test are actually flayed. Probably just having huge bloody welt on them. (Also, if the Birds are attracted to the scent of blood, it is designed to help the aspirant).

File: 1344006490922.png-(767 KB, 622x1024, C'rtez Heart.png)

>>20162432
Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Here, have a daemon heart.

>>20162385
Think of it this way, we DO have everything against us: A Deathworld, a raging mad geneseed, been cut off by a warpstorm for two thousand years. Our trials are meant to weed out the unfit, and to strengthen the fit. They don't harm us - they're what's keeping us alive and prepared for our duties.

>>20162548
But at what point do we stop trying to weed out all but the best of the best of the best of the best that we already have? At some point our guys need to step back and say this is getting a bit much.

>>20162584
If a trial represents dangers that they're supposed to be capable of facing, and that they'll face in larger scale as full Jaguars, then NOT having it would mean more Jaguars falling to the Ruinous Powers, the Black Rage, orks or the planet itself. Until now we've mostly come up with ideas, and right now we're doing that AND judging their long-term worth for the Chapter.

>>20162584
I imagine they were like this once.
Then the sun disappeared for 2000 years, and daemons attacked.

Obviously, they needed to weed out the weak, to please the Emperor.

Coincidence? Bah, that's just an idea for those without faith.

>>20162584
It's not like we kill those that don't match up.
If we did, we'd eventually become a one man chapter.
Actually, one dreadnaught chapter, since everyone knows they can't match Xipet.

>>20162648
All our trials seem to be win or die though, it is all these things either show your worth or get your face eaten off by big predators or poisoned etc.

>>20162631
That's the point of our aspirants trials not the majority of the rites and rituals which have been suggested that take place afterwards which seem to be the lethal ones.

>>20162642
That is a good explanation for things

>>20162642
>>20162715
Was the name for the 2000 year warp storm ever decided on? I was kinda partial to the Long Night.

Also, how big should it be?
I put 'sector' on the wiki, but that's actually just a placeholder.

>>20162715
Marines are held to a higher standard.

Part of the reason they're so popular with Dark Eldar for slaves is because an unarmoured, unarmed marine can go toe to toe with horrific beasts and come out unharmed.

Your average marine can go without sleep for 2 weeks, scars in seconds (hence why they actually need to remove parts of the skin, otherwise they'd heal too fast), can digest nearly anything, (and can pick up memories from prey they eat), can track creatures by taste (like from finding their spoor), can see in the dark, can selectively hear things (like the cry of a particular animal).


The trials are lethal, because anything less wouldn't be a challenge.

File: 1344008289740.png-(762 KB, 800x1000, Blood Jaguar Chaplain doodle.png)

>>20162538
>rereads scene description
>"barbed power fist"
>looks at back at image
>that's no power fist
welp

>>20159563
That looks awesome dude. Great work. Hope you don't mind if I borrowed a bit.

>>20162739
>>20162752
Long Night sounds good to me. Maybe make it subsector or system wide? Big enough to isolate the Blood Jaguars but not enough to draw attention of others?

>>20162715
>All our trials seem to be win or die though, it is all these things either show your worth or get your face eaten off by big predators or poisoned etc.
What? No, I don't think so at all. To get your feathers, you head out, show you have what it takes to survive long enough to find a prey you consider appropriate, and then you try to kill it. By then you may well have primitive spears, bows, knives, clubs, traps etc. to help you bring it down. I mean, find a big-ass predator, and you can learn its habits, dig a hole, cover it, wait with a spear... Like how mammoth-hunting is thought to have been carried out. Nobody's expecting anyone to run up to a 4-ton predator yelling with your crude knife. I mean, you CAN if you want to, but it's no requirement. The point is that if you CAN'T bring down a big predator with improvised tools, you're lacking in knowledge, experience and bravery. Die, or return in shame and at it again after some re-schooling.

>>20162792
Yes I understand the marines are much better but a trial that for a marine is win or die is still something that seems ridiculously wasteful.
We have them go through win or die constantly until they become marines and then we still seem to have their lives treated about as disposable as guardsmen

>>20162806
Yeah, 'Earning Your Feathers' is something that you choose what to hunt.
You can choose the weakest of the weak, but everyone will see what feathers you have.
Really, the only thing making marines go after powerful things in it is their own pride.

File: 1344009008058.jpg-(109 KB, 1600x718, teeewrecks_revorution!.jpg)

You know, given the size of these "birds", one wonders if they're not actually dinosaurs, given the whole feather thing.

>>20162909
That was the original interpretation I thought.
Our hive world is supposed to be basically a death world from how it was described

>>20162909
I want you to google Terror Birds. Now make them about 50% larger, and more aggressive. THAT'S what we're talking about.

>>20162978
Oh, I know about Phorusrhacids alright.
Of course, there could be both. What's an Aztec planet without some feathered-serpents?

>>20162909
>>20162963
Pretty much, yeah. Although they don't have to be too dinosaur-like, as long as they're large, have feathers and are dangerous. In the context, dinosaurs are more like, look, big scary things can have feathers just like ducks can.
Has anyone developed the death world? Compared to Catachan, how dangerous are its beasts, how poisonous its flora? I imagine it as significantly less dangerous, with considerably fewer things of Great Barking Frog caliber.

>>20163011
There's no birds of flight on Tenocit, just Quetzls, great flying raptor serpents of prey. The average Quetzl is known for its ability to carry off an ork with little difficulty, but there's stories of one Quetzl so big that it ended a primitive WAAAAGH simply by carrying off the warboss.

>>20163011
Good point. Good point. Terror Birds are likely Babbys First Feather. The Feathered Serpents, with claws and teeth and horrible roars, are likely what the more experienced marines go after.

>>20163070
Yeah, those are the big fucking prize. Huge killer bird? Can fall down a dug trap. Huge serpent? Yeah, better be a big fucking hole to stop it from just crawling up. But, what is the likelihood of serpents and birds both developing feathers? Why not just make up a new kind of being that had both serpent-like birds and bird-like serpents develop from it? Give them a common background, basically. Feathers are a weird mutation that doesn't exactly pop up here and there at random.

>>20163051
Well, we know a fungus leeches metals from the soil, to store in large sacks. Of course, the trees themselves might also absorb metal, making the bark as hard as iron.

With so many large predators, the planet must have some impressive herbivores, so I can easily see them being things like snapping turtles. With thick beaks for slicing through branches and roots, and metal-infused shells, for protecting them.

>>20163051
It's likely no where near Catachan when it comes to poisonous flora, but its fauna and flora is likely pretty deadly compared to your average jungle world. All in all, I'd rate it as a standard deathworld.

>>20163143
Maybe the toxic fungus is "wired" into the tree and detonates a toxin node whenever something damages the fungoid "nerve system" that runs the length of the tree, making the simple act of gathering firewood or making a shelter the jungle equivalent of defusing a bomb.

>>20163190
Mushroom-like, uh, mushrooms, with some sort of nervous system, living in symbiosis (or parasiting) with trees? With methods of defending their source of nourishment? I like it.

>>20163214
Those nodes that usually grow at the roots? Have some grow high up in the branches like fruit. When some poor shmuck comes a-choppin at the tree -BAM! a face full of toxins drops on his head. Either that or give them some kind of organic propulsion system so the root nodes lanuch themselves at predators with surprising accuracy. And maybe that's how they reproduce, they just launch spore filled sacs like goddamn RPGs through the jungle in a season known as the Mad Haze.

>>20163265
Given how full of toxins and metal they'd be, they'd be veritable grenade fruit.
Cherry Bombs.
Pineapples.

Does anyone know if there's anything in real life like the Mortem Sacco?

>>20163290
I didn't even think about the metal. These fuckers would be like toxin coated shrapnel grenades. Hot damn that's fucking scary.

>>20163330
Oh shit, it using the metals for the toxin bulbs would make sense for how tough they are, and the chemicals would explain the ability to explode.

>>20163320
Yeah, usually done by plants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoremediation

There's been some work on using genetic engineering to enhance the process, which means it could be quite likely for the planet to be the result of DAoT terraforming
It's a Deathworld because the Plants became so tough that the herbivores became monsters to survive, and so the predators became worse.

>>20163347
And the propulsion mechanism if we want angry grenade launcher fungus balls. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty awesome for a death world. It's especially scary because it means even if you travel only through the treetops to avoid the landstriding predators, you still have to watch your step. Rub a tree the wrong way and it'll launch a tox bomb from the fucking ground at you.

>>20163408
>>20163407
Do we really need them to be grenades though?
We have mentioned before it is a large part of the planets industry revolves around gathering and processing these but our initiates need to get one which makes more sense for it being a part of their trial due to the danger in getting the thing in the first place all the higher for a trial.

>>20163408
Jesus christ. No wonder we've got so few marines. Simply SURVIVING let alone getting the grenade fruit in these jungles must be incredibly difficult.

>>20163443
Yeah, our initiates having to grab an organic grenade, carry it through a lethal forest and up an abandoned hive, fighting off competitors, all while making sure it doesn't go off...
And then their final trial is to eat it.

This might be too dangerous.

Okay, we have a MAJOR bit of conflicting fluff.
The Dark Road to the Sun ends at the top of the old hive, where Xipet killed the daemon prince.
Our forest monastery is built atop the old hive, where Xipet killed the daemon prince.

I don't think these are compatible.

>>20163455
They don't HAVE to fight competitors, but they can if they want. They could even ally!

>>20163455
Well, actually, they're grabbing the nodes on the ground. Which considering the grenade fruit and dangerous predators, is difficult enough. And then they have to eat it and survive. Good god. Even for marine recruitment trials, this is fucking hardcore.

>>20163443
The marines need to get a big bulb, so maybe the immature plants aren't as volatile. The industry harvests before the things turn into bombs.

>>20163475
How about the daemonic incursion took place on our monestary, which happened to be an old abandoned hive. It's been renovated since the incursion to be a proper fortress.

>>20163443
I imagine that with proper equipment and protection, they'd be relatively easy to harvest. It's just when you scamper off into the jungle buck naked with only a stone knife to your name that they become a serious problem. And maybe they remain inert until thrown if you pluck them fast or skilled enough, teaching marines reflexes, patience and accuracy all at once.

Or maybe make the grenade nodes different than the storage nodes and telling the difference between the two is part of their training. One particularly crazy marine accidentally grabbed a nadenode, but he still managed to carry it through the jungle completely intact, leading to his acceptance into the BJags even though he sort of fucked up his "training"

>>20163488
The industry harvests the ones on the ground though which supposedly are the mature ones.

Honestly I think the grenade plant idea is just too damn much, we can have plants with iron bark etc but the fungus are just there to leech the toxic crap out of the ground / air

>>20163488
Makes sense.
Hah, maybe it's a grave insult on Tenocit to offer someone ripe fruit, because of the danger of ripe pods.
Giving someone a ripe piece of fruit is like saying "I am going to kill you."

>>20163488
That would also explain why big bulbs are rare as fuck.
They become volatile at that stage and start exploding.

>>20163514
I don't think it was specified how they get them, just that they get them.

It could be that they can detach at any size, but only the large ones are extremely volatile.

>>20163475
The fortress monestary is built "atop" the hive.

A space station in a geostationary orbit above the tip, so aspirants are carried into the heavens when they are accepted?

Here's an idea if we really want to keep the nades:

All or most of the bulbs are inert at first, but when the fungus senses danger via its mycelium within the tree getting jostled, it undergoes a rapid metamorphosis that results in bomb bulbs that go on to launch themselves at the threat.

Better still, as it undergoes this metamorphosis, the bulb rapidly becomes black in color, leading the BJags to liken themselves to it, for once they fully give into their primitive urges and succumb to the Rage, they have no choice other than to fling themselves forward and explode in a gory end for the betterment of the chapter.

>>20163556
That sounds pretty cool actually.

Okay, this went quite far while I was gone. Question: Why would it be a trial to get these exploding mushroom bulbs? It doesn't really teach much, and it doesn't much reflect too many aspects of their duties and dangers. Well, that might have been answered already, bit busy so I'll have to read it all later. Either way, I don't see any benefit or ritualistic value that would justify the galloping risk.

>>20163603
The Blood Jaguars suffer a curse of excess rage. They know this, and seek to master it.

Their trials are thus a way to pick out the most cautious, and dilligent. Who can carry an explosive up the hive without it detonating, they must be patient, inventive (How do you cross a huge gap without dropping it?), and have fast reactions.

It's essentially like an egg and spoon race with higher stakes.

>>20163503
>>20163578
Could combine these. The bombs are the defensive part of the plant, and are black in color.

>>20163556
I liked the idea of them having a ziggurat for their fortress. It could be that the fortress is deep within the remains of the hive, and the aspirants climb through the deserted, untouched upper levels.

>>20163556
Making them truly become closer to the Sun-Emperor once they are accepted.

Maybe it should be that the person atop the tower only responds to the bulb after sunrise and NEVER at night?
So the Sun-Emperor may watch the proceeding.

>>20163603
They have to go to different sanctuaries throughout the forest, obtain a bulb, and figure out their final destination is the top of the old hive (which probably[it is] infested with daemons).
Right now it's mainly designed to be as hardass as possible.

>>20163627
Good explanation.

>>20163603
If we want to we can ditch it. I'm partial to them recruiting from gangs and bloodsport arenas within the hives myself.

>>20163650
>>20163627
>the parts about the shroom
I don't like it. It's too wasteful, means too little. If they just have to learn to be careful and patient, there's no reason to make them risk death because of it. The Vision Quest and what I imagine are regular jungle excursions teaches you to tune your pace with nature anyway. Adding "Hey, drop this egg and you're a goner" to it seems pointless. Sort of what was said earlier >>20162584
I think these things existing and Jaguars being able to survive in their habitat is badass enough already.

>>20163715
True enough, just spitballing some ideas.

>>20163715
Guy who suggested the exploding shrooms here. I wasn't saying the ones they carry for their vision quest should explode, I was just throwing out a few hazards to make the death world more death worldly and flesh it out a bit. Catachan is pretty fucking brutal like that too, you know.

>>20163747
Yeah. I like the idea of there being flora like that and >>20163407 happening as the end result. Deadly as fuck plants -->Tough as Nails Herbivores --> HOLY FUCK WHAT THE MOTHER OF GOD WAS THAT THING predators.

>>20163715
We're basically coming up with the most horrifying and hardass shit we can so when we refine and tone it down it actually fits the idea of the planet and be extremely varied.
If we don't come up with ideas, we will have nothing to use.

>>20163715
You're trivializing it. The deeds are important not for what is physically accomplished, but for what they symbolically represent. Also, many people relate drugs to religious experiences. Combine the drugged aspirant with librarians and chaplains feeding him texts and images of their beliefs to the Sun Emperor to control the trip is a powerful way to end the journey. Is it pointless? Somewhat, but it also gives the inducted brothers a personal link.

Also, the berry bombs don't have to be entirely deadly. Dangerous, yes, but not an instagib.

So we have
Lost hive spire that is infested with daemons
floating above it in geosync is our monastery
In it in a central area (where?) is Xipets sarcophagus upon an altar, that is location Khornates are led to to be sacrificed
In the same area is Xipets powerfist resting upon a pedestal in a stasis field clutching onto the daemon princes heart
In the same area is recess for the skull of that daemon prince to be put

It is said that if the daemon prince were to be brought back into the materium, its heart would start to beat once more
If this were to ever happen, the Blood Jaguars would stop at nothing to once again put an end to it and add its skull as a trophy in the name of their chapter master

>>20163977
The hab spire being infested by daemons really doesn't make sense. Otherwise, I'd say all of that works.
Also, we need to work on the Martyred Hearts a bit. They're just sort of there at this point.

>>20164077
>sort of there
I think the only thing that we have for them is a name, that they use the same method to recruit as the BJags, and kind of a location.
Maybe they do the same as us and orbit in space, but on the exact opposite side of the planet, so there is always someone in the sun.

File: 1344015571294.png-(896 KB, 731x1000, a-hunting we will go.png)

>>20164077
They're supposed to recruit from girls who try to become Blood Jaguars, but i'm curious about when they actually recruit them. Do they do it immediately? At some point during the journey? A particular waypoint? Or are the girls allowed to complete the entire journey, it's just that at the end instead of being taken to the monastery above they are whisked off to the sisters' fortress. If so, the bonds between the Blood Jags and Martyred Hearts are probably pretty deep, and the Black Road would have stuff pertaining to both groups.

>>20164166
Maybe it's up to the individual sister. When a new girl wanders into the jungle, a sister "adopts" her and watches over her while not intervening should she succumb to the wilds, maybe subtly guiding them away from the BJags' Dark Road a bit at most. After what the Watcher deems is a long enough time has passed or a deed the Watcher considers particularly impressive has been committed, they tranq her with a dart and whisk her away to the Convent. Should the new recruit prove a failure, the failure will also fall back onto the Sister that brought her there in the first place. I'll leave their punishment up to you guys.

>>20164166
Likely at a particular waypoint (As the sisters have more recruits than Space Marines), maybe at the hive spire as well. Really depends on where we decide to put it. Also, if you could draw Boris the Titan for the Scraploota's that would be much appreciated by them.

>>20164166
There was a SHIT TON of reformation during the warp storm, which they were probably around for.
So they were around to watch Xipet rip out a daemon princes heart by kicking him of a tower. They probably respect him as much as we do.

And it's not just that they take the ones that try to become BJags, they're the ones that tell girls they have a chance.
That's what I'm going for, since they are supposed to be amazonesses, who are basically as powerful as men.

>>20163820
No no, I'm not trivializing it. I've been responsible for a large part of the trials and quests and all that. Just saying that adding this dangerous mushroom to it isn't very good, because it means too little and costs too much. As you say, the symbolism is important, but risking your life for the sake of it with something so volatile isn't. And all quests and trials fleshed out so far have also had practical meaning along with spiritual (and most of the spiritual has also been practical). About the Dark Roud to the Sun, for example: If by that point in your training you can't both penetrate the mystery of their teachings, add it together to its meaning and use in the real world, what this says about their duty, along with surviving just traversing the jungle, then somewhere along the way you've misunderstood or flat-out not learnt the point of your lessons up until then. So it's to deepen your understanding about yourself, nature, duty, and to see that you are fit for advancing further at that time.
This mushroom thing doesn't seem to have much of that to justify the danger of it.

Damn it captcha, changing yourself just before I press submit.

>>20164229
>suggesting I'll assist our sworn enemies
I'll pop in and see what I can do

>>20164246
I like that they encourage them to try for it. Perhaps they have two recruitment points: One near the start of the road (to explain their numbers) and one at the end (to explain their strength). Those who reach the first point have their position explained, and have a choice to stop there or push forward.

>>20164077
Yeah, quite possibly it is full of Jaguars, we don't know much about them yet.


As for the Martyred Hearts...

They specialise in stalker bolters, see themselves as the scalpel to the Jaguar's club.
After the Long Dark, they too became extremists, and do posses substantial Repentia units.

>>20164316
That sounds really good actually.

>>20164324
>Repentia wielding two-handed macahuitl chainsword

>>20164250
see >>20163747
The nadeshroom isn't the thing that has symbolic importance. It's just one of the many MANY hazards of the jungle. Hell, we could even make the nadeshrooms an entirely different plant that just does the same thing as the harvested toxin shrooms.

Make the nade shrooms a predatory fungus with the mycelium nerve network, except it wraps over everything instead of just trees. In a curious example of threeway symbiosis, the mycelia nerve networks will wrap themselves around the toxin bulbs and the trees they inhabit as well as hiding its nerves in the surrounding underbrush. Slowly converting the toxin bulbs into bomb bulbs, the nerve network will fling its munitions at any creature that happens to trigger the response. Once the offending beast is dead, the nerve fungus rapidly overtakes it, providing nutrients to the tree and toxin bulbs as well as the taking the metal bits and toxins from the animal's carcass to replenish its bomb supply.

These lead "bomb groves" that crop up and cover entire swatches of the jungle, ground and all and act as a constant plague upon the toxin bulb industry and purged with extreme prejudice, whereas the BJags consider it a critical learning experience to be able to recognize and avoid a bomb grove, teaching the recruit that not all foes can be bested with brute strength. This makes that one crazy initiate who manged to harvest and deliver a bomb bulb to the BJags all the crazier, as he essentially ran through a mine field and made off with an active mine, and lived to tell of it.

>>20164400
This raises a question:
When was The Black Road to the Sun adopted? Was it part of Xipets reforms?

I can see Xipet doing that, just to prove he's a badass. I'm thinking he became so awesome because the entire time he demanded better from himself and was the ultimate over achiever.

>>20164400
Not sure if I'm understanding you right, but I don't mind the mushroom itself, just making it some kind of test to carry it or so. Or if it's done, then under heavy protection so they take no actual damage. Anyway, I think my view is pretty clear now so I'll stop discussing it further.

>>20164479
Basicly he's saying that the explosive varient is the result of a parasite.
You're meant to avoid those, find a regular one, and take it up there. (Part of the reason you take it is for the metal in the orb being used by your implants for more toughness).

>>20164470
Could have been. Perhaps before they were receiving too many "weak" recruits from the bloodsport pits and gangers of the hives, and so then Xipet said "Fuck it, let's just throw them into the jungle. We do it ourselves already. Why not have our potential initiates experience it as well?"

>>20164505
So that means hypothetical Crazyrine has toxic implants? Shit...

>>20164479
>>20164520
Combining the two, maybe he did it as a way to prove his faith and purity? After all, if you can survive the jungles of Tenocit naked without succumbing to the Black Rage, nothing the galaxy can throw at you will ever send you over. Except maybe Boris. And then after his sojourn was successful, the BJags decided that this was a good way of testing new recruits?

>>20164470
>>20164520
The Black Road to the Sun hasn't got any parts about having to kill anything tough, though. In terms of predators, walking through a jungle or forest is pretty much safe. The only immediate danger would be the admittedly very dangerous plant life and bug life, but those are parts that have been covered by training and schooling already.
Feather-thing and other seek-kill things are unrelated to the Black... Sun. As I understand it, at least.

>>20164521
Yeah, at least until the Oolitic Kidney is implanted.

The Neophites probably spend their first few years in a fevered trance as their body undergoes hell and rebirth.

>>20162795
Drawfag that did the other Blood Jag armor here. Dont mind one bit because that looks great and because I am lazy and you basically did the lower bod detail for me. :D

Suggested Trappings/Relics:

TRAPPINGS
Sacrificial Dagger: Replaces combat knife; +1 Pen

Savage Trophy:
- Feathers: +1 Cohesion
- Jaguar Pelt: +1 damage with tearing melee weapons
- Skull: +3 Intimidate


RELICS
Hunhapu's Pelt: Combines twin masterwork lightning claws with a cameloline cloak

Xipet T'otec's Deathmask: Power Armour helm that causes Fear (2)

>>20164582
We need to be clear about Tenocit being a death world.

File: 1344018133381.png-(171 KB, 439x376, jag.png)

mahreen with chainsword
paint.net

>>20164384
Fuck, I just woke up to this draw fuel you sexy sir.

>>20164324
Stalker Bolters, Cameleoline Cloaks, ambush attacks etc?

>>20164324
Do these Sisters look tribal as well? And someone said there are sisters that go through the Blood Jag trial, does that mean female Blood Jags?

>>20164635
Feather-thing and such seem like better trials for the purpose of increasing badass-itude though, while Road... Sun is more spiritual. But point taken.

There was one thing I was wondering about. Their chain-macahuitl. Without a sharp edge somewhere, it's sort of badly suited to traversing jungles. Is there any possibility of making either side of it have a cutting edge as well, to serve as a machete-like implement? Or do they have a bladed sidearm?

>>20163977
No, the Fortress Monastery is an active volcano, with the HQ in adamantium tunnels lining the walls.

>>20164688
Obsidian knives, right?

>>20164582
Death world with hives. Fuck huge aggressive predators, gigantic thick hided snapping turtle things that eat plants that shoot explosives and shit, venomous bugs, and oh yeah. Orks in the thick jungles. It's pretty dangerous really. The only reason the Orks haven't taken over is that the native fauna and flora is that nasty. Also, orks with literal pineapple grenades.

>>20164708
I'm okay with black knives, but obsidian seems pointless with their level of metallurgy.

>>20164714
Great, Now I need to go watch Biodome. Thanks.

Ok, so swap the sacrificial daggers in
>>20164624
for some sort of volcanic glass/metal?

>>20164686
The Road to the Black Sun does have females attempt it. The Martyred Heart gets them.

>>20164727
I thought they were a memento from the jungle trek, when all you had on you WAS your obsidian knife. I'm kinda sketchy on the details though, so correct me if I'm wrong.

File: 1344018674548.gif-(871 KB, 4000x2000, Possible Tenocit worldmap1.gif)

I probably shouldn't post a link to a random generator in the middle of active conversation, but oh well.
Let's get a map of our home world.
http://donjon.bin.sh/world/

>>20164686
Yes, they look tribal, since they're amazonesses. And they're as close to female BJags as a female can get.
LET ME REMIND PEOPLE THAT AMAZONESSES HAVE THE SAME ROLE AS A NORMAL MALE.
So no more of this 'they get taken out half way and don't finish it' stuff.

What about Tech-Marines?

Also I could see a punishment ritual of putting on the gloves of blood. The gloves are something the tech-marines created. Basically it causes the wearer to bleed and it stops clotting. There's not an amount of time but volume of blood.

How would a Techmarine look like? Would their armor be red, and their servoarm shaped like a Jaguar head?

Scouts would be lightly armored with Eagle or Feathered Serpent style dress. Armed with only a chain sword & a shield or just a spear.

Death rituals would be gathering the geneseed and if enough time gathering the two hearts of a dead space marine. The apothecary would preserve the hearts.

Then after the fighting is done, the squad which the fallen marine are given the hearts. Which they eat, to preserve the memory of the marine.

>>20164714
I'm thinking the pilgrimage would be limited to areas without orks though. Or at least for lower-level pilgrims who stick to the "easy" sites, while more veteran Jags and Sororitas (whose name I just can't seem to memorize) might venture solo into ork territory. Another thing to decrease the chances of promising neophytes happening upon an ambushing group of orks could be having temple guards secretly escorting them from place to place. Not to take care of everything, just the things they're definitely not expected to be able to handle at that point, when they aren't even Jags yet. Not that the trainees knows about it, it happens secretly and for observation as much as guarding. Full Jags are most likely aware of it, because their observational/general detection skills are more finely tuned.

>>20164785
Scouts favour cameleoline cloaks and obsidian knives. Also poison blowdarts, smoke grenades and perhaps stalker pattern bolt pistols.

File: 1344018923649.png-(360 KB, 479x363, Obsidian.png)

>>20164727
>>20164688
According to Forge World, the Salamanders use Obsidian bladed Chainswords.
Need to be replaced more often, but with a finer cutting edge.

>>20164624
Can I get an opinion on this?

>>20164785
I'm assuming Techpriests would get maybe orange instead of red armor. Servo arms with Jaguar heads sounds pretty cool.

I also like the death ritual bit.

>>20164753
I'm with you on the memento part, but just not obsidian. Give them something that retains a sharper edge for a longer time - they're Space Marines, they might live a long time. Or they can keep the obsidian dagger, but how suitable would that thing be for the kind of machete-work a dude of Space Marine-size and duty requires?

>>20164822
I think it's pretty good.

>>20164838
So are we going to use it as-is, or tweak it?

>>20164814
For a general-purpose large knife, the ability to retain an edge is more important than extreme sharpness. It'll be used more often than the chainsword and for equally tough purposes.

>>20164830
How about bronze from head to foot, instead of mechanicum red?

File: 1344019423425.png-(90 KB, 908x384, Obsinite.png)

>>20164857
Good point.

Of course, we could steal fantasy's Obsinite.

>>20164852
As is, it's good. If we have to, we can tweak it later.
>>20164860
That or gold would make sense.

>>20164758
>Yes, they look tribal
Ceramite and plasteel ain't nothing on my boner dude. i'll restrain myself from drawfagging this, thogh. /co/ teached me about tribal fetishes.
the hard way.

The way I see it, we're actually extremely spiritual as maybe only a sister or a Prophet would be, in spite of being total hardasses with little regard for imperial decorum or customs.

It's more about the spirit than the law, so to say.
Does that make sense?

>>20164880
Before we go into cross-canon... I didn't know about obsidian chainswords. Are ours like that? Because I like how it fits with our shock-fierceness (cheesy!) of jumping in, doing tons of damage in no time at all, hoping to break enemy moral or create panic. For such a purpose, sharper seems better than lasting, since they can replace them pretty easily while on their home planet.

>>20164920
Just give them slightly longer hair with twined-in feathers, facial warpaint and maybe jaguar pelt cloaks/loincloths over their power armour.

Job done.

>>20164926
Yeah, that makes sense. Whatever Inquisitor inspected us after the warp storm left probably felt the same way.

>>20164929
If the blades break off, the resort to clubbing their heads open with the blunt bits. Nothing wrong with saying 'obsidian teeth' just for the cool factor. It doesn't have to affect gameplay one iota.

>>20164926
I agree. Of course, our high spirituality is partly rendered moot since it's constantly set against the Black Rage, which is also a main reason we are like that. But yeah. Very spiritual, very faithful, very in tune with our nature and the jungle's nature.

>>20164926
....no HERESY after all?

>>20164958
We have teeth on both sides of our macahuitl though. Are both sides part of the same chain or are they two separate ones? Because if they're separate, the less hardy obsidian chainblades could be mostly fixed by just having two of them on the same sword.

>>20164969
In tune with the jungle because we're the baddest fucking predators in it.

There may be things that can take a Blood Jaguar one-on-one, but we don't fight one-on-one. You fight one of us, you fight ten of us.

>>20164972
Oh, I bet you the more uptight chapters (Ultramarines and their successors, aside from the Mortifactors) view us as pretty much an inch away from being a Khornate warband.

>>20165005
I'd go with separate chain. More reliable that way. One side gets jammed? flip it around and use it like a normal chainsword.

>>20164972
I think the problem is rather than our spirituality fails at times, due to the Black Rage, and then we have a higher probability of falling to Chaos. Also, we were talking about a group that split off BECAUSE of high spirituality - they were so upset about Xipet being put inside a Dreadnaught, which they saw as unworthy treatment of the greatest Chapter Master, who deserved to join the Holy Light, not be stuck inside the darkness of a walking tomb.

Just imagine the Inquisitor who finds the chapter after the Long Night.
Finding what were once a pretty numerous flesh tearers successor, turned into a small, elite, extremist group of maniacs.

>>20165005
Like bullet-resistant glass, the obsidian is laminated with a layer of more flexible super space material to reduce brittleness. How's that for you?

>>20165015
We train to be completely self-reliant as well. Our group tactics also rely heavily on everyone being able to individually scout and understand the situation in a short period of time, and knowing what to do well enough to mostly come to the same conclusion as most other Jags, or one that compliments what the others are thinking of.
And we actually ARE in tune with nature. We spend a lot of time to be. But the jungle we're in tune with is also extremely fierce and dangerous, so of course that's an aspect.

For an initiation trial, you could require them to wrestle a local monster. In Aztec mythology there was a creature called the Ahuizotl, a human-eating water-dwelling dog-monkey with a hand on its tail. Sounds like warp spawn, huh?

Bound to be some lingering corruption from the demonic invasion. Whereas the Sun-Priests minister to the spirituality of the Jaguars, the chapters Librarians can be bush-shamans who aid the Priests by hunting and destroying warp taint and orcs in the jungle. A heavy emphasis on Astrology and reading the future from the entrails of beasts or one's enemies would be cool.

There was also a rival to the chief Aztec god, Quetzalcoatl. Tezcatlipoca was a god of warfare and the sun and represented -BY A JAGUAR-. Although it is Tezcatlipoca who is traditionally associated with CHANGE, the symbolism is too good to pass up.

Either Tzcatlipoca is your SM chapters interpretation of the Emeperor, or Quetzalcoatl is. If Quetzalcoatl is, Tzcatlipoca can symbolize the black rage inside of them, or the chaos god of Khorne who threatens them and their god with corruption (This can be especially poignant if you hint your chapter may secretly and unbeknowst be a successor of the WORLD EATERS, rather than the Blood Angels)

Or Queztalcoatl can by your Chapters great enemy, the winged serpent, a representation of Tzeentch.

Trying to find information on actual aztec priestly garb to help with designs for Techmarines.

>>20165079
>>20165051
Combine these and we have a splendidly sharp and reliable main weapon.

Looks like the Black Locks are picking a fight!
>>20164291

>>20164833
I've been following the Blood Jaguar threads all lurker-like, and it seems to me that the BJag would keep their obsidian knife not only as a reminder of what they accomplished but also as a handy and highly ceremonial tool for their sacrifices. Think about it. You got a BJag out and about, kicking ass for the Sun Emperor and (ooc-ish-ly) thinking "Oh shit. I nearly forgot in the midst of all this asskicking! Sun Emperor needs his sacrifices from this battle. Hmm... This big ol' chain-macahuit won't do the job precisely enough to get this xeno's foul heart out in one piece for a proper offering. Oh, wait! I have my SACRED CEREMONIAL OBSIDIAN KNIFE! This'll work wonderfully! Hearts for the Sun Emperor!"

As for the Martyred Heart? I kinda dig the idea that they go through pretty much the exact same trials as a BJag aspirant. Perhaps they take a more metaphorical sense to their tactics? Obviously chain-macahuits everywhere because that's how everyone rolls on this planet. As for their ranged aspect perhaps have them take on an air of "Our blows will strike you from afar; just as the streaks of dawn-light destroy the cursed night from the horizon!" They'd take their you-hit-them-we-shoot-them role very seriously, though if the situation calls for it I doubt they'd hesitate to switch roles as needed. I don't really see Martyred Heart taking much interest in the usual Sororitas BURN EVERYTHING memetic approach since they live on a jungle planet and uncontrolled fires are a very good way of killing large chunks of your jungle-world. Bolters would abound, I think.

>>20165154
I agree. But their reliability as survival tools in the jungle is a bit more debatable. But I'm personally fine with both a ceremonial obsidian dagger and a larger machete, plus a chainsword.

>>20165154
Bolters with Hellfire rounds or Bloodshard shells.

Or needle rifles. Poisened needle rifles

Poisened needle rifles

>>20165175

Why not combine them and have the Obsidian Knife be their combat knife

>>20165154
You know what I want to do? I want to invent the Chainspear. Basically a smaller chainblade on a long-ish to long pole.

>>20165075
You know, I bet the reason we went all elite outside of the Death Company, was due to the Long Night doing a fucking number on us. We likely started it with about 1000 Marines, +200 Death Company. Fast forward 2000 years. We've been fighting Jungle WAAAGHs, demonic incursions, parts of our own chapter that went all BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD due to the warpstorm, and other shit. By the end, we were likely down to 100 marines and about 50 death company. The fact that 2000 years after that we've got 400 + about 100 DC after a pretty serious fight with the guys Boris was looted from is pretty damn remarkable. We bounced back pretty well.
>>20165128
Librarians going around and fighting chaos and rooting out corruption alongside the chaplains was a pretty early proposal. I'd say we put Tzcatlipoca as our representation of the god emperor. God of the Sun, warfare, represented by a Jaguar. Fits us like a glove.

File: 1344021021159.jpg-(16 KB, 163x600, Sugar-cane-knife.jpg)

>>20165197
His point is that Obsidian is brittle, and likely to break, which isn't good for a long term weapon like a machete.

And yeah, I can see them using a machete or cane knife for cutting down branches.

>>20165128
If I remember right I thought Huitzilopochtli was the Aztec god of war? He was also god of sacrifice. He's repesented by all things a hummingbird

File: 1344021093919.jpg-(103 KB, 339x477, Tzitzimitl.jpg)

Other possible local monsters:

Tzitzimitl
"In Aztec mythology, a Tzitzimitl (plural Tzitzimimeh) is a deity associated with stars. They were depicted as skeletal female figures wearing skirts often with skull and crossbone designs. In Postconquest descriptions they are often described as "demons" or "devils" - but this does not necessarily reflect their function in the prehispanic belief system of the Aztecs.[1]


Depiction of Itzpapalotl, Queen of the Tzitzimimeh, from the Codex Borgia.
The Tzitzimimeh were female deities, and as such related to fertility, they were associated with the Cihuateteo and other female deities such as Tlaltecuhtli, Coatlicue, Citlalicue and Cihuacoatl and they were worshipped by midwives and parturient women. The leader of the tzitzimimeh was the Goddess Itzpapalotl who was the ruler of Tamoanchan - the paradise where the Tzitzimimeh resided.
The Tzitzimimeh were also associated with the stars and especially the stars that can be seen around the Sun during a solar eclipse. This was interpreted as the Tzitzimimeh attacking the Sun, this caused the belief that during a solar eclipse, the tzitzimime would descend to the earth and devour human beings.[2] The Tzitzimimeh were also feared during other ominous periods of the Aztec world, such as during the five unlucky days called Nemontemi which marked an unstable period of the year count, and during the New Fire ceremony marking the beginning of a new calendar round - both were periods associated with the fear of change.
The Tzitzimimeh had a double role in Aztec religion: they were protectresses of the feminine and progenitresses of mankind. They were also powerful and dangerous, especially in periods of cosmic instability."

Easily adapted into demonspawns of Tzeentch or Slaanech

>>20165197
That's fine as well. Just not as a survival knife. Cutting through underbrush, chopping down trees, digging the dirt, all of this would destroy the edge of an obsidian knife rather quickly. And if the obsidian knives have ritualistic or ceremonial value AS WELL, then they can't just throw them away or replace the, and thus they'd end up with blunt obsidian knives and no jungle utility knives at all.

>>20165225
I thought that Huitzilopochtli was the Aztec god of war?

We're slowly going from MAIM CRUSH PILLAGE marines to a caste of elite Warrior-Priests.

>>20165259
I think that's been happening since basically thread one when we started getting into rites, trials and quests.

>>20165248
I said this before, only copy stuff when it fits what we already have.
Don't try to just shove extra because.

>>20165259
Odd isn't it?
>>20165254
Didn't Tzcatlipoca do that as well?

>>20165248
Well, looks like we've got the daemons who attacked during the long night.


About Librarians, would the Flesh Tearer psychic powers really fit? One would almost think the Librarians would have more "Sun" based powers.

File: 1344021429024.jpg-(166 KB, 420x420, Tepeyollotl_1.jpg)

>>20165236

It's not obsidian, it's SPACE obsidian (make up a mineral name, Obsidocrete), forged via a special Adeptus Mechanicus process. No problemo.

>>20165225

"specialists in Mesoamerican Studies, write that, "More than anything Tezcatlipoca appears to be the embodiment of change through conflict."

And with your gods chief rival being the winged serpent, Tzeentch as your groups biggest enemy is an easy fit.

"Tezcatlipoca’s main feast was during Toxcatl, the fifth month of the Aztec calendar.[9] The preparations began a year earlier, when a young man was chosen by the priests, to be the likeness of Tezcatlipoca. For the next year he lived like a god, wearing expensive jewellery and having eight attendants. He would marry four young women, and spent his last week singing, feasting and dancing. During the feast where he was worshipped as the deity he personified he climbed the stairs to the top of the temple on his own where the priests seized him and sacrificed him, his body being eaten later. Immediately after he died a new victim for the next year’s ceremony was chosen."

Obviously Space Marines are too important to sacrifice and wouldn't marry. Perhaps a chapter-serf could serve this role?

>>20165307
Yeah. Flesh Tearer powers are sort of a hold over for now.

Proposed psychic powers already: Pain shooting, taking wounds off of others and onto themselves, taking away the feeling of pain, inspiring fear and anguish, granting the opponents the madness of the black rage without the benefits.

If we're gonna make custom powers, we might as well start figuring out what exactly the librarians do with their psyker abilities.

>>20165276
I agree with this. We want inspiration from Aztecs, especially aesthetically, but not just a Space Marine equivalent.

File: 1344021713641.jpg-(502 KB, 942x1536, daemonettes.jpg)

>>20165340
>>20165276

True, but the Tzitzimitl could make decent Daemonettes.
White/pale skinned, sunken facial features to resemble skulls.
Female spirits from a paradise, yet who are feared as beings of ill omen.

>>20165311
I don't like the idea of adding new materials with no root in existing fluff. Not when it can be solved anyway.
>>20165051
>>20165079
>>20165131
>>20165175
This has solved it in a to me preferable way already.

>>20165340
Note that we should also steal some stuff from the Mayan's as well.

>>20165366
That I can esily see, just saying that we ought to stop looking at the Aztecs and make up the rest ourselves. Aztecs provided a platform to work from, and we've got enough to stop relying on it.

>>20165390
And the Incas, Olmecs and Toltecs.

>>20165254
There were ALOT of gods of war and the sun. Indo-america was hardly unified spiritually, and wars were often waged on religious lines. NO, WE SERVE THE TRUE SUN GOD.

Could put a heretic cult that worships a chaos god (like Tzeentch) as the true sun god, displaced by the faith in the Emprah which came and cleaned out the pagan scum with faith and fire and pointy hands.

Remember that the ecclesiarchy functions by coming in and adapting local customs to Emperor worship whilst sweeping away the rest. Perhaps there were once two chief goes, the winged serpent (invent new name for Quetzlcoatl) and the jaguar (invent new name for Tezcatlipoca). Mythologically, they were represented as making the world together.

"In one of the Aztec accounts of creation, Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca joined forces to create the world. Before their act there was only the sea and the crocodilian earthmonster called Cipactli. To attract her, Tezcatlipoca used his foot as bait, and Cipactli ate it. The two gods then captured her, and distorted her to make the land from her body. After that, they created the people, and people had to offer sacrifices to comfort Cipactli for her sufferings. Because of this, Tezcatlipoca is depicted with a missing foot."

Note the missing hand. And the symbolism with your great hero's power gauntlet. Perhaps your techpriests or even regular priests could surgically remove one of their hands and replace it with a prosthetic in honor/emulation of this, ala the Ironhands.

>>20165400
Same. We've got a solid foundation. If we want to change some stuff about it later, take some stuff from other mesoamerican cultures, that sort of thing, we can do it later.

>>20165366
Taking stuff every once in a while is okay, but we're making our own lore.
We should be making our own stuff, not just pouring over wikipedia, looking for stuff and sometimes going "Oh, this looks good. Let's add this."

>moar on religion

In any case, imagine it like this: The ecclesiarchy comes to pacify the heresy on this newly claimed imperial world. Noting there are two chief gods, one of which is the god of sun and war, and one is SUSPICIOUSLY similar to a Chaos power, they sweep away the worship old Serpent God and promote the Jaguar god as the Emperor. Worship him as you did, just know that he is the Emperor. This would've happened millenia ago of course. But it allows you to have a homegrown heresy of Chaos cultists seeking to knock the Jaguar god down from the heavens and give rise to the Winged Serpent (Tzeentch) again.

Tzeentch is also the principle enemy of Khorne, and your chapter could be considered pretty heavy on the heresy and almost Khornite themselves. More subtle insinuation they might be a successor of the World Eaters?


>Reguarding priest retinues
"Tezcatlipocas priests were offered into his service by their parents as children, often because they were sick. These children would then have their skin painted black and be adorned with quail feathers in the image of the god."

File: 1344022275002.jpg-(26 KB, 600x436, MantellaGenusPoisonFrog.jpg)

>>20165259
Nono.. Blood Jaguars are still MAIM CRUSH PILLAGE. In battle.

This other stuff is "Welp, battle's over and sacrifices have been made. Who's up for a round of 'Hot Potato' with fungus bombs while we wait for Xolct to get back from his skull hunting?"

Also, I love the idea of poison needle guns. And chain-spears. Maybe we should have something the Martyred Heart do is cultivate some sort of poison frog or something for their dart-guns? Perhaps two or three different types of poison critters to give differing effects depending on what's needed? Straight poison, obviously; perhaps some sort of biological fear-toxin that inhibits the 'fight' part of the fight-or-flight response, and a paralyzing one for helping to capture sacrifices?

>>20165448
>Successors to the World Eaters
Then why do we get the Black Rage? Or Red Thirst? Doesn't make sense unless we're Blood Angels. Otherwise, I like that fluff. Chaos cultists could be a constant thorn in the side of the hives, and occasionally irritating enough that the Martyred Heart goes around exterminating them every once in a while.

>>20165448
This I can see. And with the Warpstorm, the Chapter became more and more attuned to the Sun as representing the Emperor, until this was a central part of their doctrine. As for the Jaguar, I think it representing them instead of the Emperor would work better. Or else their name'd be like Blood Emperor, and that's heretical. So perhaps the Serpent was instead an enemy out to swallow the Sun, and the Guardian was the champion assigned by the Sun to oppose it.

Alright, no more wikipedia copypasta then. But what about warrior societies? The division of Eagle Warriors and Jaguar Warriors is a perfect division for Assault Troops (airborne, eagle) and Tac-Troops (jaguar, hunter)

Both were highly respected, though the elite were the Shorn Ones (The "Shorn Ones" (Cuachicqueh)[20] was the most prestigious warrior society — their heads were shaved apart from a long braid over the left ear. Their bald heads and faces were painted one half blue and another half red or yellow. They had sworn not to take a step backwards during a battle on pain of death at the hands of their comrades.). Terminator Squad with half blue/half red helmets?

In order to enter the Eagle or Jaguar warrior bands one had to prove ones self, ergo, scout squads which could be armed with simple or archaic weapons, like the explosive lances used by some IG calvary regiments (as stabbing or throwing weapons like the Atlautl), or straight up obsidian swords.

>>20165471
Those 'Fungus Bombs' are actually full of chemicals and TOXINS. Yes, they are natural poisoned fragmentation grenades.
The toxins could be refined for such uses, and of course there are probably other sources of poisons as well as you say.

What's the difference between poisons and toxins?

>>20165448
Although the priest part makes absolutely no sense. Our spiritual leaders are still full-fledged Jaguars, ain't no derned sickly weaklings in our Chapter. If they BECOME like that though service, they might be relegated to inscribing feathers (or their stalks) like purity seals, but no, no sickly folks as priests, and no non-Jaguars involved in any ceremony at all, aside as from sacrifice. Or I suppose the Martyred Heart aren't Jaguars, but they ought to be treated the same way, and should be able to attend the same ceremonies.

>poison
In the context of biology, poisons are substances that cause disturbances to organisms,[1] usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism

>toxin
A toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms;[1][2] man-made substances created by artificial processes are thus excluded.