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    1.63 MB Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)22:25 No.18411013  

    I don't optimize often, but when I do, I use magic.

    Obviously, Fighter is crap. But I want to see how far it can be taken.

    I skimmed over google and brilliant gameologists for optimized stuff using "fighter" and "ex" but nothing came up.

    Has there been any level 20 builds that were completely (Ex)?

    I want to throw together ideas for advancing with absolutely 0 (Su) or (Sp) abilities.

    The catch is the build has to be at least 6 levels of Fighter.


    1. Moving from point A to point B swiftly
    2. Deal damage that can't be ignored easily
    3. Survive damage
    4. Resist spells
    5. Escape or survive non-direct damage spells
    6. Have Style
    7. Stay Classy

    I'm going to look up ex stuff from the book of nine swords and bump with results as we go.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)22:28 No.18411050
    You see what you want to do is play any edition other than 3.5. It's called Caster Edition for a reason. That reason being what you want to do will still make you a 4th rate for the casters. Want to do damage as a FITAR? Go ubercharger and shut up.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)22:34 No.18411112

    I think your missing the point.

    I want to see how far an EX build can go.



    AVENGING STRIKE = swift action to add smite vs any evil outsider
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)22:38 No.18411146
    I just told you how. Go ubercharger. That's literally the only useful build that is open to fighter classes.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)22:40 No.18411167


    Can be taken as fighter bonus feat

    Spell focus for swords.


    Evasive Reflexes = 5' move instead of claiming AOOs

    >Looking for fighter bonus feats
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)22:43 No.18411205


    So that solves 1, 2, and 6.

    >Still need to work on

    3. Survive damage
    4. Resist spells
    5. Escape or survive non-direct damage spells
    7. Stay Classy
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)22:51 No.18411297

    Allied Defence from "Shining South"

    Grants combat expertise to all adjacent allies, assuming your working in a close team.

    >looking for things that help you brawl in an antimagic field.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)23:01 No.18411413

    Jordain Vizier prestige class

    +2 insight attack +2 dodge ac
    >Counterspell (Su) letting this Su slide because its countering spells
    Eidetic Memory a.k.a bardic knowledge
    Aide-de-Camp double int and wis bonuses for Eidetic Memory AND all appropriate class skill checks


    Hold the Line

    AOO vs enemy charge
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)23:22 No.18411614
    4 & 5

    General Feats from Serpent Kingdoms

    Be something with racial bonus vs charm and then get:

    Charm Resistance
    Charm Immunity

    >not having to rely on magic items for our immunities.


    Fiend Folio

    >Grafts are not magic items*

    Aboleth tentacle, EX transform attack dc 10 + 1/2 lvl + con mod, makes enemies icky and maybe kill them before they can travel for cures.

    Stone Spitter Ex ranged attack thats also a +1 weapon


    And here's where I'm gonna stop for tonight. No real interest in this it looks like.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:29 No.18411673
    bump for interest, I like your ideas, OP.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:29 No.18411679
    Just build it around chain tripper.

    high strength, trip weapon, greater improved trip. +4 from the trip enhancement... whatever can't remember the rest.

    Trip them, hit them with +4 to attack. If they have a weapon, disarm it with a +8 modifier because they are prone, if not then power attack with the bonus.

    If you are up against anything gish, then use antimagic field.

    Problems with the build: this is as interesting as it gets. You have a stunlock character. Opponents either accept massive penalities or use up actions standing and picking up their weapon again.

    You get full attacks. Use magic tricks in items if you are up against a strong stupid opponent, AMF against smart ones that use magic items etc. You feats will carry the day.

    Have lots of evasion based magic options, so you can milk their defences if they are buffers that you cannot close to melee range with. Come back later, but on the same day.

    Also, with your spare feats, get leadership and have a cohort that rocks.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:32 No.18411712
    2 barb 3 fighter 10 frenzied berserker there bard class for the back of deity and demigod and some bear warrior
    1 barb give move speed up
    2 deals good dmg (charge still wins)
    3 d12 HD and con up from 3 rages
    4 good saves
    5 evasion and some trap sense
    6 have and ax
    7 top hat?
    haven't look at my build in a along time and u only got 1/2 the fighter lvls but is still a no magic melee give one hell of a str boost if u use all 3 rages and deathless frenzy with around 20 turns means ur gold in most fight or your doing something very wrong
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:35 No.18411743
    also low on feats to make build so can adjust as needed with them
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)23:37 No.18411765

    Nice, solving 2 & 3


    Okay, were getting places, we have four modes of attack so we aren't one trick ponies. One does tons of damage, one disables opponents, one WTFs the opponent, and one counts as our +1 weapon.

    I'm personally satisfied with the ideas so far for

    1. Moving from point A to point B swiftly
    2. Deal damage that can't be ignored easily
    3. Survive damage
    6. Have Style
    7. Stay Classy

    >stuff like mounts, cohorts, jumping, getting wings for flight can fill in the gaps.

    >may invest in adamantium or mythril varieties of slash/pierce/bludgeon for awkward damage resistances

    Still need to solve the "caster drops a mountain on top of you" "caster turns your floor into lava" "caster does X" problem.

    Continuing to thumb through books for answers to:

    4. Resist spells
    5. Escape or survive non-direct damage spells

    >preferably using EX methods
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)23:40 No.18411792

    Ohhh barb and frienzied berzerker.

    "I swim through the lava to the other side"
    "You WHAT?!"

    Wondering if there is better weaboo fighting magic to make us invincible long enough to rip and tear?


    Fighter for the bonus feats, we good.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:48 No.18411867
    If you really want to trick it out, then you have to start splitting classes and do a proper 3.5 optimisation.

    I have done it before and I know what is produced is a nightmare. Mix in things like: paladin til the save boosting power, barbarian alternative that gives the +1 attack, frenzied berserker for the improved power attack. Don't underestimate playing it straight though. Feats might be less powerful than spells, but they work in AMF. So it can still give you a massive edge.

    But the key thing to remember is: if you play a fighter as shaka zulu in the world of guns, then you get shot. There is no reason at all that a fighter can't have spelled equipment and use spell options. They just cant afford to use them as often as a mage or cleric.

    So flight, teleport, phasing, increased size etc are all available. With a cohort, you can even have an artificer as your offsider, if your gm doesn't like you mixing it up without logic.

    The key point is that a fighter works perfectly well in a AMF. Almost no other build does except a rogue. This is something both classes should exploit constantly. All the nonsense of CoD comes from allowing them to use their buffs to eclipse the fighter. Without magic, you can churn them into chum.

    And to me a 'classy' character is all about how you play them. This guy could be a monochromatic dick, or the life of the party, that is all on you.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:49 No.18411886
    i u want to not die go ilithid savant on and 1/2 ilithid get troll blooded and pick put immunity to fire acid and gut undead traits all dmg you take is now non lethal and your immune to non lethal dmg so you take no dmg + stuff like death effects energy drain and dmg done work there some other ways to do this without being ilitid but don't remember how atm
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:51 No.18411901
    I played a character that combined rogue, two weapon fighting, and barbarian. I had a barbarian ability that allowed a full attack on a charge (lion's pounce IIRC... don't remember the book) and the Neraph Charge feat. Lots of attacks on a charge, all of which had sneak attack damage.

    Another, similar option is to use multishot and the like to boost the number of thown attacks in a round, then get Neraph Throw (like Neraph Charge, but on throwing a weapon). At least I think there was a thrown weapon equivalent.

    Neraph stuff is in one of the Planes books. Planar Handbook IIRC.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)23:52 No.18411917
    ENDURING LIFE from libris mortis.

    Just say NO to negative levels.

    complete scoundrel skill tricks:

    Clarity of Vision for Dat EX see invisible.

    Back on Your Feet recover from prone

    Extreme Leap for gettin' around

    Twisted Charge for obstacle avoidance

    Walk the Walls vs Wall of Force

    >more books to go, looking for more escapes and immunities
    >> Anonymous 03/21/12(Wed)23:54 No.18411951
    Forgot to mention, Lion's Pounce + Whirlwind Attack + Sneak Attack might also be an option for a level 20 build.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/21/12(Wed)23:58 No.18411995

    Absolutely true!

    Though I'd prefer spending the money on EX things, maybe a lair for followers from leadership.


    Yeah, if we wanted to get hunted like a monster.

    The aboleth tentacle is monstrous enough, still not sure about keeping it.


    Sweet, good things to keep in mind. Though we already have damage output.

    Taking suggestions on "how to stay alive"
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:03 No.18412040
    You will never totally achieve 4 and 5 without a way to get flight with Perfect maneuverability due to the existence of a little spell called Reverse Gravity. Without that flight, RG is effectively a no save, no spell resistance, no interaction with anything on your character sheet, you just fucking lose spell.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:07 No.18412073

    And we've got the feats to make it happen.


    Book of Weaboo Fightan Magic

    Manuevers that heal us after smacking people.

    One With Shadow for incorporeal

    Shadow Blink for 50' teleport

    Iron Bones for DR

    AURA OF PERFECT ORDER take 11 on a save
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:07 No.18412075
    amf or dimension door/teleport will also solve it. Flight is also useful though, so no reason to not have an option like that up your sleeve.

    What threats are you still anticipating?
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:08 No.18412087
    The best defense in 3 is a good offense. Turn 1 kills happen here. And dead stuff can't kill you.

    I don't have my books on me ATM, but you may want to look into things you can use once or once/fight to negate someone else's turn one kills, in addition to or instead of the more static defenses. Also piling on the AC is better than piling on the hp, and straight immunities will do a lot more than saves.

    On the saves front, level dipping for that first-level boost over and over may be an option. One or two levels each from two-save or three-save classes could help, if you can milk the most useful features (or alt features) out of those first few levels. PrCs can be exploited similarly I think.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:12 No.18412121
         File: 1332389538.gif-(39 KB, 467x350, excellent.gif)
    39 KB

    Maybe feathered wing graft if we don't mind being a freak or some kind of weird mutant superhero called Angel.

    shadow jump and immovable rods (since we have a ton of gold not used)

    Getting creative...


    Hmm lets see.

    A) Elemental Resistance, where can we get some of that?

    B) Are there wizard shenanigans we can't (EX) Teleport or Eidetic Memory out of?

    >also mfw we Eidetic Memory our way out of a faustian bargain with the devil
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:14 No.18412146

    Absolutely, unspent manuevers can be allocated to first turn denial. And saves are a good thing.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:17 No.18412178
    Are monstrous templates allowed? If so, the winged creature template from savage species came with big wis and dex boosts, dinnit? I can't remember if it had evasion, but I think it had evasion.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:19 No.18412197
    (ex) elemental resistance is hard to come by.

    Which means you won't have it in the amf. Since alot of enemies need to be beaten by taking magic off the playing field, then natural elemental attacks may be hard to deal with. But those are rare and 'normally' not too damaging.

    If you can use magic, then the number of options is huge. With access to polymorph, you pick a form. Spell buffs can make you immune just like mages.

    To prove a point I would make this character as a straight fighter and then just use money to even the playing field. But if you do start chopping in other classes, remember there is a rogue variant that gets feats instead of sneak attack. Which means more skill points and evasion in exchange for a bab.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:20 No.18412207

    Easy mode: ring of elemental resistance, ring of freedom of movement, armor of spell resistance.

    Hard mode: find ex ways to do the above



    Is there anything we are still afraid of a caster doing to us?

    We can tank damage, resist damage, and heal from damage.
    We can ignore some effects, resist others, and save the rest
    We can get around
    We can pulp the wizards with our mighty charge

    And we can enjoy all of these abilities inside of an Anti Magic Field, perhaps we may even enjoy them better.


    So wizards...

    Wat do?
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:23 No.18412227

    I'm trying to build off an elf actually to get the sleep immunity base, and charm immunity through feats. But I'm taking all suggestions. I would prefer not being a freak though. Or at least a respectable freak.


    Yeah, elemental attacks may just have to be a weakness, no getting around it.

    But saves, hit points, and healing by punching things, and frenzied berzerker will go a long way.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:23 No.18412233
    You need a way to do damage without your gear. If they disintegrate, or god forbid, sunder your weapon, then you need some options.

    Also, what you are producing is a character that needs preptime. They are MUCH less weak than other buffbuilds when unbuffed. Because of high hp, bab and feats. But you are still open to surprise.

    But then everything is, which is why batman wins every 'who vs who' argument.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:27 No.18412265

    Prep time?

    Every thing is EX, constantly active, or 1 action to use.

    I'm confused.

    Yes, the grafted Aboleth Tentacle and Stone Spitter were my ideas for that. I'm not digging the tentacle, but it may be necessary.

    Also, gauntlets.

    Also, pick up a rock and improvise cudgel
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:28 No.18412276
    You may need to build against certain monsters and not just mages.

    There may be possible mage/psion builds that mix summoning and repeated fusion for an uberdemon. Just off the top of my head. Again, it's been a while since I worked out that particular build and I didn't post it anywhere.

    Point is mages have weird ways of getting fighty, so you need to make sure you don't get outmatched on that front either.

    Also think about ways of dealing with little stuff like rust monsters in cramped halls (no escape by flight). Is there some way of getting through walls?
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)00:34 No.18412333
    I am off to work.... But, it seems like alot of your options come from spell augments. If you think you have it all covered with (ex) powers, then that is pretty impressive, but probably hard to fit into a single build.

    The simple plan is to stunlock and kill, everything you can strap on to that is extra. My plan was to fill any gaps with backup items, but depending on how many skill points you have, then you might get away with skill tricks or crazy stuff like the grafts.

    My preference would be to stay away from the freak, but still kick ass. In my mind the main power is still being functional in an amf. This is the most underused power of a fighter and a rogue. Both of whom should get access to it as soon as possible.

    Even if it makes gm's cry.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:34 No.18412341

    >AVENGING STRIKE = swift action to add smite vs any evil outsider

    And yeah, we have the rest of our warblade levels to figure out fighting.

    We could potentially teleport through walls. A charge attack against either a rust monster or wall would work better though.

    Also anything that could rust is dirt cheap to replace. And I'm implying we can always rip and tear our way to victory.

    Monsters shouldn't be anything special for us to worry about. I mean besides being monsters that want to kill us.
    >> Dowjin !!9I4SJG4jQPb 03/22/12(Thu)00:36 No.18412365

    Thanks for the help!

    And to the rest of you as well, excellent work.

    I'll archive this, and hopefully somebody can make a badass PC or NPC with its theories.

    >Implying Fighter got his game back
    >> Anonymous 03/22/12(Thu)11:15 No.18416676
    Consider maxing out diplomacy as well. Turning hostile to friendly with perfect or near perfect success chance is nice.

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