>>17830158
So...the webway gate was actually made successfully in this alternate timeline?


Why wouldn't chaos use Terra as it's seat of power?

Is there a Cult of Horus?

Have a lot of worlds become daemon worlds even outside the Eye?

Vat a tweest.
alternatively
>Directed by M. Night Shyamalan.

So where's the astronomican?

(Cont.)

However, Chaos has not been idle during this time. Planet after planet succumbed to their corruption, and even the mere proximity of the Black Throne in tow behind a Chaos fleet could cause it's whisperings to drive an entire planet mad. The Traitor Legions swelled in number as the insanity spread.

This was not without it's drawbacks however. Chaos by it's very nature is volatile, and the wars between the various factions of the four gods were constant shortly after the fall of the uniting influence of Horus. Mars became almost neutral, so often was it's crater-pockmarked surface fought over, and only on rare occasions would multiple devotees of the various gods unite under the banner of Horus and crusade to further bring the madness to the galaxy.

The Primarchs of the Traitor Marines led the Chaos Empire in Horus's stead, and were responsible for the foundation of the Blackguard chapter of the most daemon-warped and powerful marines they could muster, in response to the intermittent assaults by the still-hidden Grey Knights.

Meanwhile, the Fallen Imperium roams the Webway gates, their techpriests operating crude copies of the Golden Throne's webway portal in order to rip unstable openings in the Webway to launch their assaults. Many times the portal has failed, sealing shut in the midst of the assault force and destroying many ships, or closing behind them and before they can make good their escape, condemning them to the unkind fate offered by the Chaos fleet.

Further threats to the weakened Imperium are offered by the Dark Eldar who also roam the webway, resulting in violent and sadistic bloodbaths when they manage to catch a colony ship off-guard. Even the Necrons have been spotted amongst the glimmering paths, along with daemons of Chaos and of course, the Eldar themselves.

>>17830200
More importantly, where is the big E himself? If he died, shouldn't he be reborn already?

>>17830223
Why would the chaos legions unite under the banner of a dying horus?

>>17830183
Chaos kinda reamed Terra just because it could. They later said it was a show of power to cow any would-be resistance, but it was really just a leftover bloodlust for destruction.

There is a Cult of Horus, and they're firm believers in Chaos Undivided. Naturally, the various preachers and generals of the four gods embrace or condemn this viewpoint and it's many followers as convenient.

Not many worlds have become Damon worlds. THere are a handful more, but not all that many. Instead, a world usually just submits to the twisted whims of the Chaos groups of the area, but the onjly significant new Daemon world is Cadia, which is completely daemon-controlled (As it was never recolonized in M32). For whatever reason, the (very rare) daemons spawned from there are more resistant to warp-nulling powers and abilities.

>>17830200
The Astronomicon no longer exists, and instead the fleets of the Fallen Empire are guided through the webway by the Hand of the Emperor, severed by Horus during the fateful battle. It is suspended in a sacred and inscribed jar of preservatives, and rotates to point down paths of the webway. The main fleet follows it's directions, and thus far it has led them away from any traps or ambushes.

Psykers in other ships can hear a faint psychic hum, almost undetectable, but it echoes throughout the webway in such a fashion as to allow the other ships to be directed towards the main fleet (Although this is only for those psykers who are sensitive enough. Those who cannot truly discern the sound of the Emperor's Ghost from the sounds of the Webway tend to doom their ship in a horrible manner to an eternity of wandering).

>>17830245
Perhaps. There are stories of extremely psychically-gifted individuals among the various colony ships, and said ships are never ambushed or led astray in the webway, but they may be mere rumor (iirc, the star child thing only really cropped up a couple millennium after he was on life support. If he directed his soul to be reborn on a subconscious level then, I'd think it'd be exponentially longer to be reborn if you can't direct the process at all. I dunno though).

>>17830248
Most of them don't. Most of the various Chaos legions are loyal to their god alone, but some see the fractious nature of Chaos and believe they could be exponentially more powerful united and conquer the galaxy easily. The last major figure to unite the various factions of the chaos gods was Horus, and ergo the Cult was formed.

Additionally, I was thinking the Inquisition would exist, but it'd be limited to a single Inquisitor on each ship in the remaining fleet in the Webway.

Also, the Black Throne is anchored in orbit between Cadia and the Eye of Terror, and is moved only for major campaigns when they use Horus's decrepit body as a figurehead and rallying point.

The Tau empire has been mostly ignored, but the Fire caste overthrew the Ethereals, claiming they had poisoned their minds, and took control. They have an uneasy partnership with the Air caste, and the Water and Earth castes are near-slaves. Ethereals serve as commanders to expendable meat-shields like Vespid, Kroot (Who have mostly buggered off due to lack of any profitable outcome), and any captured humans. While there are a few hold-out Tau worlds that follow the Tau'va and the ethereals (Including Tau itself), the Tau empire is tenfold larger as the Fire Lords (They rejected the "Caste" designation) push their boundaries as far as possible, only just now clashing with Chaos-controlled worlds.

Bloodsports and the hunting of lower castes by the Fire Lords is commonplace. This, of course, means that the Water Slave diplomats are quite loose with their allegiances, and commonly "accidentally" drop the names and locations of Air Caste fleet locations to any interested parties.

So are there any other questions, comments or ideas for this setting?

Bumpan for comments. Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

It would make more sense if the corrupted primarchs were the driving forces behind the internecine Chaos faction wars. A lot of them didn't see eye to eye before the revolution, and it would lend gravitas to the various factions and add reason to the conflict besides just 'Chaos is Chaos'.

>>17831360
Cool, sounds good to me. I'm honestly somewhat light on Chaos fluff, but that would add a lot better depth than simply "It's Chaos, whatcanyado."

Plus, that'd add incentive for the Primarchs to condemn the Cult of Horus, as either they fear it might be taking away from the effectiveness of the troops or out of simple jealousy for their brothers legacy.

Maybe every couple centuries a missile is "accidentally" be fired at the Black Throne, only to be diverted or sucked into the warp at the last minute by Horus's remaining power.

I was also thinking the constant bickering and wars on the surface of Mars over it's forgeworld status and abilities might have awoken the Omnissiah (Read: Void Dragon), and that certain factions of the Mechanicus are attacking the Chaos on the surface with strange and unfamiliar weapons and technology...

this scene seems even more grimdark than before

>>17831390

Did the C'tan fluff change at all with the new Necron fluff? I never did like the C'tan at all, but I suppose the allusions in the Mechanicum novel have cemented their existence.

also, unlike chaos, normal space marines dont have chaos gods mutating them giving them powers and junk; dont they rely on technology more? In which case, without as many worlds producing weaponry/tech, wouldnt the space marines be super outgunned?

Interesting.

My biggest complaint would be the Imperium seeming too much like good guys in this timeline.

Secondly, the alternate Tau, while interesting, are just "there", without a satisfactory explanation for the change.

How large is the Chaos Empire? Same size as Imperium? Smaller? Is it like Imperium-with-Chaos-instead-of-Ecclesiarchy, or something else? Would something like a unified chaos empire really be able to exist? Don't forget Chaos is also freedom, individuality and independence. A weaker Chaos Empire could mean more room for other factions.

Note that there is no constant source of new Astartes, unless the Chaos Empire would make them. Which would be...interesting. But still none for loyalists(or in very, very low numbers).

I think you could elaborate on the fate of Craftworld Eldar, as they were mostly based in realspace.

It would be nice if you elaborated on various subfactions as you envision them, I'm especially interested with Alpha Legion, Biel-Tan, Dark Mechanicus and Inquisition(does it exist?).

>>17831562

I don't think there'd be a Chaos Imperium so much as 'lots of humans, who are mostly under the sway of Chaos'. The closest thing to unified empires would probably be the demesnes of the primarchs, but I think humanity as a whole would still be the largest presence in the galaxy - where before they were rabbits, they are now rabbits with rabies.

this is fall of eldar all over again...sort of
Holy Terra is going to be a demon world obviously, maybe Unholy Terra?

Webway mankind/Dark mankind
Eye of Terror/Eye of Terra
Birth of a new ruinous power? maybe?

Mankind could bitch about tau being 5k year old upstarts. Or not. Eldar will still bitch about mankind being 40k year old upstarts. Necron will bitch about eldar being upstarts. or not

Sounds interesting

>>17831425
That was actually my base concept. "How can I make this universe even shittier and darker and grimmer (Grimier?)." :)

>>17831436
It changed a bit in regards to how the Necrons use them, but afaik the Void Dragon is still everything-but-stated to be the "Omnissiah"/presence within Mars.

>>17831438
My thought was just that they become far more elite. Instead of perishing in battle to stem the tide of whatever menace is threatening a planet, they have ten millennium to learn hit and run tactics, and to hone their already-formidable skills. Don't forget too that since several of the loyal Primarchs are with them, the gene-seed will be damn near pure instead of the "diluted" version that exists in some instances in 40K canon.

>>17831562
Oh, definately not. While they're not s bad as chaos, when they make a successful raid on a planet, they steal every man, woman, and child who isn't mutated or visibly marked by Chaos. Think Dark Eldar, but instead of torturing them they're conscripted as untrained front-line troops to replenish the ranks of the Fallen Imperium IG.

>>17831562
My thought was the lack of the Damocles Crusade would result in the Fire Caste kind of getting bored and restless, and some of the caste members outside of the influence of the Ethereals might start questioning their leadership. With the Crusade, though, they were so busy fighting they didn't have as much time to sit and ask why an Ethereal who never enters combat should be the one dictating strategy.

I was thinking that Chaos is, in 40M, finally reaching the outer bounds of the Imperium. My thought was that every couple of centuries they manage to unite a world-conquering force under one of the god's banners (Usually Khorne, and very, very rarely the Cult of Horus) and go and conquer a few more sectors worth of space with a minimal amount of bickering. Other than that, though, I was thinking it'd be infighting galore, with the only really "united" fronts being where the Orks or Tyranids are pressing them (And seen as a threat to all the gods via destruction of their worshipers).

I was thinking the craftworld Eldar stay the fuck outta dodge. Instead of occasionally meeting with or directing Imperium movements, they avoid any chaos-controlled world as much as possible, for fear of raising the attention of a fleet that might pursue the craftworld. In fact, I'd probably imagine them lurking around the edges of Ork Waaaaghs and subtly trying to direct them towards key Chaos planets, using them as a brute means to achieve their goals instead of the late Imperium.

(Response Cont.)

I would imagine that Alpha Legion sleeper cells exist among the Fallen Imperium ships, and while they can't contact reinforcements while in the webway, their existence is part of the reason why the loyalist remnants make a point to keep their sojourns into realspace brief. Plus, they're probably the other main thing the Inquisition (See my previous post with the Eldar pic) looks for (apart from mutants).

I'd imagine the Biel-Tan still crusade out to cleanse the planets, and now just add daemon-infested maiden planets to the list of targets. Dunno much about their fluff apart from what's on Lexicanum.

>>17831625
Pretty much. Orks still fight them, Nids still eat them, but really only the Eldar and possibly the Tau on some level realize that this is probably a slightly shittier outcome than before.

>>17831763
I was actually thinking Terra would just be a dead rock, sorta like the moon in appearance but being orbited by the shards of the deathstar-moon after it was destroyed during the Revolution. Although daemons tried to convert it, I'd think the warp-ghost of the Emperor living there for so long would have some kind of inhibitory effect.

Perhaps the Primarchs are each attempting to gather enough power to rip open an Eye of Terra in the hopes that it will transform them into a fifth Chaos god in the process? (Thinking here very heavily of Magnus the Red)

So does anyone else have questions on the setting or more ideas for it?

Bumpan for comments. Does anyone have any specific questions about a specific faction or the setting?

What Happened to the loyalist Primarchs?

>>17832546
I was thinking Khan was still wandering the eldar webways, but the White scars do so as well, both in an attempt to find their Primarch as well as to safeguard the webway for the remnants of the loyalist fleet to travel in.

As for Sanguinus, I'm *very* torn as to whether he should have died as is canon, but without injuring Horus enough to let the Emperor defeat him, or if I should say he instead turned to Chaos and Slaanesh/Tzeench/Khorne (Dunno which) after learning that it was Horus and not he who had been named Warmaster. Hell, he'd be a nice rallying point for black crusades, to further spread chaos in between his attempts to penetrate and purge the webway.

Ferrus Manus was slain as per canon, and Corax and his legion (as well as the abominations he created in an attempt to raise more soldiers) act independently of the rest of the Fallen Imperium, performing their own raids against the most heavily guarded targets in an attempt to absolve his sins.

Cont.

Reply Cont.

I was thinking that Leman Russ, Rogal Dorn, Roboute Guilliman, Vulkan, and Lion'el formed the initial Primarch Council to lead the Fallen Imperium in the Emperor's stead, but shortly thereafter Lion'el was nearly slain in combat with Luther as per canon (His body was interred in the deepest recesses of the Dark Angel flagship).

Currently, the Primarch Council is torn, and while they all grudgingly follow some aspects of the Codex Astartes, the three other Primarchs still refuse to follow it's tactics to the letter, a practice further encouraged by the hit-and-run attacks their existence mandates. Each primarch stays on their chapter's flagship, only occasionally meeting together on another for planning the next major strike against Chaos.

Otherwise, Rogal works to maintain the webway generators that they use to enter and leave the webway, while Vulkan's flagship acts as a small forgeworld, producing weapons and armor for the other chapters. Roboute and Leman train the troops, and both participate in the selection of Astartes recruits from among the captured populace inhabitants.

More setting questions?

are there still squats wondering around?

>>17832821
How is the quality of the guardsmen? Seeing as how they're utilizing guerilla warfare, I'd assume each soldier is at least at Catachan or just below that level.

Also because of this shortage, are women allowed to join the Guard?

Lastly, how do they decide whether a child belongs in frontline infantry or should be selected for specialized roles (commissar, stormtrooper, grenediar, etc.)?

>>17833018
>are women allowed to join the Guard?
they already can.

there are mixed gender and only Male/Female IG units already.

>>17832854
Maybe. I can see Demiurg either being subjugated under the Tau, or possibly a few smuggled onto Vulkan and/or Rogal's ship.

>>17833018
Think a mix of catachan ferocity and cadian devotion/purity. The stealth aspect is fairly minor, since usually the attack is simply screaming out of the webway and overwhelming the planet before they know what hit them. However, due to the conscriptive nature of their recruiting, commissars are in high demand to prevent rebellion from new or wavering recruits.

As for women, I thought they were already part of the Guard? In this setting, they'd be allowed to join, but strongly, strongly encouraged to stay at home (Ship?) and produce more children who can be raised as loyal soldiers (Since the flighty ones waste manpower and resources)

Frontline vs specialized is a combination of ability and loyalty, *especially* loyalty. Since most of their troops are conscripts from prisoners of war, the conscripts are rarely trusted with heavy weapons for fear of betrayal. This even creates a class divide between "redeemed" soldiers and "webborn" soldiers/officers.

More setting questions?

Bumpan for more questions? Anyone?

>>17833219
Well you spin an interesting tale. However...since the 40k universe is fuck huge it is hard to come up with reasonable questions.

>>17833255
I know. I was just wondering if people had more specific factions or locations/personae that they were interested in finding out how they fit into the more-fucked-up universe.

>>17833266
Well...

For one thing, does Deldar and Fallen Empire work together...since they both live in the Webway?

Also, shouldn't the Primarchs be...well...pretty aged or dead by now? I mean 10k of years are a very long time.

>>17833289
DE: Oh hell no. In fact, the DE are the primary threat to the Fallen Empire, since Chaos (Apart from the odd stray daemon pack) can't enter the webway, and the Eldar only occasionally try to close the passages to squeeze the mon'keigh out of their sacred passages. Really, DE are the reason why almost no ship goes unprotected or unescorted in the Webway, and is part of why the Eldar usually barely tolerate the Fallen Empire in there at all (They soak up the DE attacks, and as a result the DE attacks on craftworlds has dropped exponentially).

As for the primarchs, they were suppossed to be immortal. Heck, Bjorn the Fell Handed was a vanilla space Wolf, but he's pushing 10K+ and doing strong afaik, so while the Primarchs are probably older, and don't engage in front-line fights like they did during the Horus Revolution, they're still alive and kicking.

Questions, questions, bring your questions!

No-one has questions?... ;_;

>>17833462
>>17833390

Jesus christ, let your thread die with dignity.

>>17833390
Seeing as how the Dark Eldar are a big threat to their security, would the Fallen Empire employ "bounty hunters" to track down and eliminate high profile targets? It would be cool to see some of these guys honing their skills to Assassin levels and maybe rebuilding the lost arts of the Officio Assassinorum with every recruit having to hunt down a small band of DE raiders by themselves. I know the Imperium was never big on retaliation over a few dead imperials, but it could make for an interesting dynamic to have them return violence in equal measure.

>>17833470
I was going to. If no-one responds after 2 bumps, I let it die.

>>17833476
Exactly. Heck, if they've isolated a band of DE, they may send SM recruits in there to hone their skills before emerging from the webway and raiding. If you think about it, the horrible sadism of a DE group is probably a decent primer for the horrible mindraep of a Chaos-controlled planet.

The Officiao Assasinatorum might have been refounded using a single Assassain from each temple honing their arts (Eversor are notably absent, both b/c an Eversor can't really do anything except sit or kill and b/c it's a really nice signal flare for Khorne and his daemons).

The Eversor temple might just be made out of recovered-yet-insane/violent prisoners recovered from said DE camps. They'd be given a weapon, pointed towards the enemy, and told that if they killed enough foes, the pain and suffering would end. That would be zealotry right there...

Hmm. I would imagine that this iteration of the Imperium would become significantly less xenophobic over time, primarily out of desperation. Chaos would probably take centre stage as its antagonist, leaving little resources leftover for stuff like the Ordo Xenos. A lot of the various ritualistic dross inherent to the Imperium would probably never materialize, too, as their situation is simply too precarious for anything other than sheer pragmatism.

>>17833526
>They'd be given a weapon, pointed towards the enemy, and told that if they killed enough foes, the pain and suffering would end. That would be zealotry right there...

Assuming that there are hundreds, maybe thousands of prisoners in DE camps, this could be a scary thought. I remember that story where 200 eversors protected some traitor, and when 2000 space wolves were sent in, only a single one made it out alive. Now thousands of these eversor-ish assassins would be pretty fucking brutal...

Also, how do the Eldar come into play regarding the Fallen Empire? I know they were never on the best of terms, but maybe they could form temporary alliances like "Hey, we'll bombard a Chaos held planet for you, but in exchange, you have to hunt down [insert important DE Archon]". Then again, if I were in this universe, I'd send scouts to hunt down Eldar rangers as well, just because they're a bunch of assholes.

>>17833600
To expand on this, just saiyan, I can see what an earlier Anon suggested about the DE and this Imperium working together being pretty likely. The DE employ mercenaries from everywhere - Archons would probably pay ridiculously well for a a company of Marines as a spearhead for a realspace raid.

Dark Eldar tech is incredible, pragmatism now more important than tradition, etc.

>>17833600
Yeah. Anything nonessential to survival (lots of rituals, etc) are dropped, and you see things like techpriests who actually have a slightly better understanding of what does what on the ship (Since they can't just get a new one made on Mars or another forgeworld).

The remnants of the inquisition still do have a part to play, mainly in purging mutants from the remaining humans on the ships, and trying to root out Alpha Legion soldiers among the space marines. Ordo Xenos actually has formed a sort of diplomatic-ish arm of the Fallen Imperium, and they tend to be the ones trying to negotiate with Eldar for passage through certain areas of the webway (As well as figuring out how best to use xeno-tech, although this is very rare still as the Primarchs frown on that sort of thing).

Avationfag and his shit quest are fag nIggers
Gmdraxxon sucks nigger dicks too

I-I don't think I can live in a world without General Sturnn.

>>17833623
That's kinda my thought on the Eldar. They're grudgingly allowing the Fallen Imperium to traverse the webway in exchange for them smoking any DE they find, and for more valuable requests (Aka, "We need to pass through this part of a webway which skirts uncomfortably close to the entrance to the webway on a craftworld") the Eldar could probably negotiate the terms fairly easily.

Of course, there's still a bunch of animosity between the two, and important officials on "ambassador duties" vanish or die gruesomely all the time.

>>17833643
I actually didn't know the DE use mercenaries that much. I'd imagine the Fallen Imperium as a whole avoids them like the plague, but it's probably not unheard of for offshoot guardsmen ("We stole a shuttle, killed our Commissar, and got away scot free!") to hire themselves out to DE. This is of course if they're not captured and turned into rape-slaves first.

Plus, I'd bet the Ordos probably "Acquire" DE weapons and tech, and use them in whatever ways they can while avoiding the Primarchs catching wind of it.

Horus is a pretty cool guy, eh killed Sanguinius and doesn't afraid of anything.

>>17833698
I was thinking hat all of Cadia is a daemon planet......

....save for a few remote fortresses. These massive garrisons are ~10 miles across, mostly underground, and have surviving (if not thriving) populaces. The're under almost constant attack from Daemons on all sides, and when the Fallen Imperium thinks they can get away with it, they try to pop out, relieve the pressure of the attacks on the fortresses, and get some daemon-battle-hardened troops to supplement their existing officers.

I don't think it'd be at all unreasonable to think that such an environment could produce a man analogous to Sturnn.

How sustainable is the Fallen Imperium?

Can they make new ships / weapons / power armour (I remember one of the Black Library books claiming crusade-era ships could create their own weaponry with raw materials but I know how reliable they are).

>>17833709
>doesn't mention that Horus killed the FUCKING GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND
>implying anyone gives a shit about that fag Sanguinius
>implying Horus didn't seduce him
>implying Horus is also gay
>implying

>>17833738
They have to supplement their supplies with materials taken from wherever they're currently raiding. Most of the weapons and armor are made on the Salamander flagship, while the Imperial Fist flagship makes the other assorted engines, electronics, and similar devices.

>>17833745
If you guys think it'd fit if shoehorned into this canon, I was thinking it would be pretty badass if Sanguinus fell to the influences of Chaos. He could be like a 40K version of the pretty-boy SC for Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy.

>>17833800
>Faaabulous Sanguinius adventures
>Worships Slaanesh
>Converts people just by having them look upon his features
>Rumoured to be the most handsome mother fucker in the galaxy
>Heretics from all over come to Unholy Terra just to look at him (and maybe take pictures)
>Forgoes bulky armour for the best looking dress uniforms ever conceived by Slaaneshi designers
>His chaos legions also really handsome and utilize awesome looking dress uniforms

Oh god, why can't I hold all dis fabulous!

>>17833903
"Heeeeey guys. Gues who just converted another planet for Cha-os!"

All the other primarchs: "Fuck off Sanguinius."

>>17833745
>>17833800
>>17833903
>>17833930

Suddenly...this universe doesn't so bad. Hell, I might actually, willingly join cha-*BLAM*

Anyway OP, I'm guessing you're still ironing out the details? It could make a really good setting, perhaps you should put this into 1d4chan so that you can archive it, work on it a bit, and soon get more and more ideas from fa/tg/uys here and there.

Alright. My thanks to whoever archived this on sup tg.

Also, feel free to brainstorm or toss any ideas out there for this setting before this 404's. I'll post it all on 1d4chan when I (eventually) get around to making an editor profile on there.