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  • File : 1322677947.jpg-(230 KB, 600x895, 1313688584687.jpg)
    230 KB Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:32 No.17065352  
    Realistically, how would a swamp based culture work?
    What would they eat? What clothes would be comfortable? What are things that one needs to do to live (comfortably) in or near swampy or marshy areas?
    I ask because I've never actually been near a swamp and trying to google any variation of swamp culture/people/civilisation always ends up as HILLBILLIES LOL
    Pic related
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:34 No.17065361
    Hillbillies are more mountainous folk, but you're redneck swampfolk are pretty reliably good at living in a swamp. There's no reason to use their lifestyle as an example.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:34 No.17065362
    Indians in the Amazon. There's a good start for you.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:37 No.17065378
    New Orleans.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:37 No.17065379
    Well if they're lizard folk then they don't mind getting wet. Otherwise you definitely want to build houses on wooden supports above the water line.

    you need some way to get around and carry stuff, so boats. Even lizardmen probably need to keep things dry.

    You won't be too worried about getting dirty, matter of fact that might wind up killing your immune system.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:39 No.17065388
    Are these just humans or lizard guys like the pic implies? Cause there are humans who live in swamps, so you can definitely start looking there.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)13:41 No.17065399
    I live in southern Louisiana. While I'm not a Cajun myself, I have friends who are. They get by reliably. Lots of small game in the swamp, and lots of fishing. Fishing is pretty huge. And fowl hunting in the appropriate seasons. They can get by on what they hunt or trap themselves, really, though trade with the outside world is pretty common. I think there's a show on Discover Channel/Netflix about cajuns during Gator Season. Probably a good starting point.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:41 No.17065402
    Eeh, probably humans. I just used the Argonian for reference.
    Should have made that clear, sorry.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:41 No.17065404
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    Berlin is on a swamp. Hell, the name comes from a word for "swamp".

    Tall/heavy buildings are generally a bad idea because they fucking sink.

    So, pic related, Argonian capital.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:42 No.17065408
    Canoe's, bridges, and stilted houses. People would probably be wearing sandal's, and shorts/capri's.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:42 No.17065409
    Medieval tho.
    Like, is agriculture at all sustainable in these areas or would they be a hunting/reliant society?
    And, again, what sort of clothing is comfortable in these areas? I assume it would get pretty humid but I'd also guess you'd want coverage to avoid getting stung or wet.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:43 No.17065411
    Thats if its low tech, early civilization Otherwise, maybe think Venice?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:43 No.17065414

    But then you'd STILL build on posts so crocodiles and annoying insects stay the hell away.

    By the way, OP, what level of advancement would you think these people have reached?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:44 No.17065421
    swamps can have dry patches...

    and there'll be plenty of bog iron to make into iron and steel

    and plenty of trees for coal production

    and if we use skyrim as a reference - then even cold mountainous regions can have swampy areas (the area between windhelm and the rift)

    by that logic the black marshes will have dry areas too - and even the occational hill... that can be dug into, or built upon

    heck, in DORF FORTRESS it was possible to mine down through aquifiers - and its equally possible IRL... you just need to pump out water
    >historic fun fact: some of the first industrial steam engines were used to run water pumps to keep mines in england dry
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:45 No.17065424
    Alot of clothing would be made from plant materials. Tons of small game and fishing to be done. Stilt housing would be used. Swamps have some of the freshest water because moss filters it rather well. Tons of natural edibles like cranberrys and cattails. Swamps are quite easy to live in if you dont mind getting wet and know what to eat.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:45 No.17065425
    Where does the Amazon run through India?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:45 No.17065427
         File1322678755.jpg-(42 KB, 450x600, SpreewaldLehde.jpg)
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    just outside berlin
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:46 No.17065430
    Swamps are crawling with life, agriculture is possible with moving fields, settign up barriers draining a section of land planting in the exposes and very nutricios soil, harvesting, letting water back in and then moving on.

    Heavy reliance on rubber trees for waterproofing footwear.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:47 No.17065435
    Standard fantasy kitchen sink level.
    So far, I've got stilts, canoes, and low, light buildings. Presumably made of wood or clay.

    Anyway, I have to get to class, hopefully this thread will survive 4 hours...
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:48 No.17065444

    ya, draining fields is a good solution

    heck, there's a reason that Holland is known as "Nedderland" - Nedder means lower... as in bellow surface level. they drained marshes and swamps to increase agriculture areas.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:49 No.17065451
    All non-African, non-Australian natives are Indians because Europe didn't actually know where India is. Thank you for trolling and please come again soon.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:50 No.17065454
    >When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:51 No.17065459
    Boats and fishing.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:51 No.17065462
    Herding dugongs, harvesting tubers, roots, vines, pineaples, geoducks, and farming crayfish.
    Trained dolphin/dugong mounts?

    Im thinking a system of draining and re-floodign marshland to let it regain nutrients
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:52 No.17065464


    It's the Netherlands in English, and Nederland in Dutch. Neder means about the same as Nether. I had to correct you on that. Also, Holland is a part of the Netherlands, not vice versa, although it's very often referred to as that.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:55 No.17065484
    Bayou folk are a good place to start on the simple harsh end, on the other end of the spectrum look at Venice and Aztec Mexico city for inspiration .
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:56 No.17065487
    never understood why people forom Holland are called Dutch, allways assumed some dumbass clerk misheard Deutch
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)13:56 No.17065489

    my bad. I'm just a stupid europoo

    either way - the point is that its possible to drain large tracts of lands to make it viable agriculture land

    would make for nice potential plot points between oldschool natives wanting to preserve the marshes - and more industrious imperial-friendly factions

    a bit like foresworn/nords in the reach
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:01 No.17065516
    Oh yeah! The.. Aztec? Floating farms..

    Hmm.. maybe even floatign citys, rasts cobbled together, ans staked into the ground then pushed on when resources need to recover.

    Also makes them nightmares to attack, armoured footmen and mounted knights? meet quicksand, bottomeless holes and guard alligators/snake catapults.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:02 No.17065521

    I'd have expected better from a fellow europoo. But no harm done, mistakes are human.

    And you're right. In fact, there's a province in the middle of the Netherlands that was drained (it has a silly name too: FLEVOLAND)

    Plus, if they build a dam they can regulate, they can flood their farm for fertile soil.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:06 No.17065538
    All this lizarding and swamping makes me wanna play Heroes III's Fortress
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:07 No.17065542

    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:09 No.17065553
    Dumbass fucking retard cuntarse English confusing us Dutch with the Germans (German is Duits in Dutch, and Deutsch in German.)
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)14:09 No.17065554
    You'd be looking at hunting, fishing, and subsistence farming. Most crops will be hardy vines or bushes, probably fruits and berries. Hunting and fishing will be the main source of food. Deer, rabbit, racoon, armadillo, nutria (tastes horrible but they breed fast), duck, goose, gator, any kind of freshwater fish, most kinds of shallow-water saltwater fish if they're near a coast, anything that can be hunted from the comfort of a boat.

    Culturally, they're going to be somewhat insular, staying to their own communities a lot, but ridiculously friendly once you open a dialogue.

    They're always eager to ask someone to visit their family's home (most families live in one building or a series of close-together buildings) for dinner, which is always a communal event usually involving large amounts of food being prepped and cooked on the spot. Food is a VERY big thing with them, and they take pride in family recipes and the flavors they can evoke from the simplest foods. Many have their own spice gardens with dazzling arrays of scents and flavors (that may just be a southerner thing)

    They're very giving, always glad to share some leftovers (seriously, i never leave my friend Jon's place without him talking me into taking a box of homemade jerky or venison. He'd have me take a whole side of venison if i had a freezer big enough) and they're always eager to help anyone who appears to need it. Whether it's building a building, digging a ditch, hauling in a day's catch, or tracking down a thief, the entire community can be expected to come together to assist, even assisting outsiders. They have a strong sense of 'we only get by because we're all friends'.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)14:11 No.17065564
    They tend to be master boat-builders. They won't build you anything ridiculously big or ostentatious, but they can build a small, fast, flatbottom craft that maneuvers in the swamps almost as well as the fish themselves. It'll be utilitarian, but very efficient at what it does. And usually built by hand (even the all-metal boats they use today). Simple though their tech may appear, they are by no means stupid. Anything that can give them an edge is fair game, and many have developed their own complex winch systems of pulleys to help move 800 pound gator carcasses without assistance.

    They're big on tradition, and many hunting techniques and other facets of life have remained unchanged for the last 200 years in the cajun swamps.

    Despite their love of hunting, they're often animal lovers and you can guarantee that most families will have a dog or four on hand to help with hunting, home protection, and general companionship.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:13 No.17065578
         File1322680401.jpg-(2.48 MB, 2448x3264, Baltimoreharborview.jpg)
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    Fun Fact: so are most of the cities on the Eastern US.

    It's probably the access to water that draws folks there, so make the swamp people big maritime traders.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:13 No.17065581
    >lurking in the depths of horrible toxic swamps - they lurk
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:15 No.17065589
    Clubs, Spears and Javelins as cultural weapons.
    Keeps shit at a distance and/or keeps useful skins as intact as possible.
    Cobblers and wise folk are reveres, cause foot-rot will kill you dead it will.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:16 No.17065594

    A lot of olden time major cities were build near rivers, oceans, cliffs and swamps. Access to water is vital, and of course, cliffs are attractive for an added fortress. Belgrade got fucked a lot in history because of its proximity near the Danube and the Sava.

    I also recall that the Egyptians had crocodile leather armour. I think that would be perfect for swamp folk.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)14:18 No.17065606
    Washington DC was built on a swamp simply for the challenge. New Orleans was built in a depression in the middle of a swamp because it granted tactical and economic control over the mouth of the mississippi river, access to the gulf of Mexico, and access to a sizable lake.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:19 No.17065618
    >swamps have fresh water
    >never been to a swamp
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:21 No.17065625
    Yup, tough as hell, light and flexible.

    You don't have to stick you cup in the bog, look for streams or dig for it.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)14:22 No.17065635
    Like I said earlier, swamp-folk will take any tech advantage they can get. If your world's tech accounts for crossbows, swampers will probably have them, either by trade or by manufacture.

    >I also recall that the Egyptians had crocodile leather armour. I think that would be perfect for swamp folk.
    depends on the nature of the swamps. If they're hot, humid pressure cookers like Southern louisiana, then there's no way that'd work. Too hard to swim in in an emergency, too hot during the summer (heat stroke is a very real issue), and the scent of the preserved hide would tip off gators and other animals that you're close. Maybe in a colder climate swamp or strictly as a town-guard thing.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:26 No.17065661
    Depends on the swamp. I live sort-of in a salt-water swamp, but there's a fresh-water one on higher ground nearby. I wouldn't drink it, but it wouldn't kill you to do so. And you could definitely dig a well there.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:26 No.17065663

    Thing I'm wondering is: Is crocodile/alligator leather waterproof?

    Swamp inhabitants would benefit greatly from leather that's water resistant, but I can't find anything on it. Just that they would have to oil it.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:26 No.17065665
    Rome was originally built on swampland. Make of that as you will.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:31 No.17065686
    >Thing I'm wondering is: Is crocodile/alligator leather waterproof?

    Your skin is waterproof, why do you need waterproof clothing?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:32 No.17065694

    But Rome lacks "swampy" qualities. I vision I got from OP was a kind of "wooden houses on stilts, rope bridges, etc. I picture the swamp scenes from the Pirates movies.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:33 No.17065696

    Why do some fishermen wear those rubber pants?

    Besides, water doesn't do nice things to leather.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:34 No.17065701
    Because hypothermia is a bitch and contact with water accelerates the process dramatically.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:35 No.17065706
    >Why do some fishermen wear those rubber pants?

    Because the water is cold and they could contract hypothermia

    That wouldn't be an issue in a muggy swamp
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:35 No.17065710
    >>Your skin is waterproof

    No it isn't. Your skin absorbs quite a bit of water. That's why you get pruny fingers when you spend too long bathing/swimming/out in the rain.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:35 No.17065711

    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:35 No.17065713
    Ask the finns, their country is basically a huge, cold swamp.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:36 No.17065720
    Because trenchfoot kills. Because some water contains substances that irritate skin. Because water makes you more likely to go into hypothermia. Because I don't want to get fucking wet.

    This is like saying "Your skin blocks out the elements, why do you need a coat?"
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:43 No.17065754

    If I recall correctly, that's a common misconception.

    The pruning of your fingers is due to an automatic reaction by your brain. The pruning helps increase traction on wet surfaces, a byproduct from our ancestors who climbed a lot.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:45 No.17065764
    Snakes, fantasy powered fire-ants and super swamp necrotizing poison ivy shit is.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:53 No.17065802
    Don't know about pruning, but we DO absorb water through skin. Or other things.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:55 No.17065817
    You recall incorrectly, I'm afraid.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)14:59 No.17065838
    Fishing, houses on stilts/tall foundations, clothing that doesn't get ruined by being wet and likely a lot of waterproof clothing. Not very metal rich unless they trade with the outside a lot, so expect more spears and bows than anything weapon-wise, boiled leather and hide for armor. Everyone who's anyone knows how to swim because it's probably vital to survival, and knows how to do it well. Rice and other plants that grow in swamps would be harvested for food, probably a (negigable by most game stats) resistance to diseases due to the nature of their lifestyle. Probably more accustomed to amphibians and sea life than most land-based cultures, but only for species living in rivers and bogs. Boats like rafts, canoes and gondolas are likely to be in no short supply.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:00 No.17065852
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    Tons of swamp towns in Vietnam. Stilted houses. Pic related
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:04 No.17065875
    You want a swamp-based culture that didn't turn hillbilly? Look up the Acadians of Canada's East coast
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:05 No.17065884
    >Didn't turn hillbilly

    ...AHAHAHAHA. Bro, I live in NS, and the entire province is just a classless boozefest.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:05 No.17065885

    Good. Now imagine twenty of those of various sizes and heights and floors, and stick em together in a single sort of palace building.

    Though maybe they could also live in the trees.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)15:05 No.17065886
    and sugar cane. Lots of sugar cane.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:06 No.17065888
    There's agriculture that swamps can sustain (rice paddies & old-fashioned cranberry farms are in swamps, for example), as is animal husbandry in addition to hunting/foraging, so you can go any of those three routes or a combination of them.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:07 No.17065893
    Speaking of Finns, has anyone seen the horror movie Sauna?
    In the movie there's this medieval village on a swamp and I was wondering how accurately it was depicted...

    Not OP by the way
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:07 No.17065895
    That is great. KURAST DOCKS?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:07 No.17065899
    Definitely. A lot of herbalism too, medicinal plants and swamps seem to be maddly in love with one another.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:09 No.17065912
    You forgot to mention an important factor.

    Is it a hot swamp or a cold swamp, or temperate? Are you imagining the hot, muggy marshes of Louisiana or the freezing, clammy fens that used to be so common in Europe but have been driven to extinction with the industrial revolution?
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)15:11 No.17065924
    This whole thread has me picturing a race/culture of bayou-dwelling Cajun lizardfolk...

    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:13 No.17065932
    Or the doublehot, flooded swamps you get in India/Brazil/Indochina
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)15:16 No.17065948
    Good point. Lots of unusual plantlife in swamps, and most of it useful in one way or another. And the natives will always find uses for everything. Simple herbal remedies, unusual or uncomfortable substitutes for things outsiders might think common but are unavailable in the swamps, and things that are just plain silly but seem to work.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:18 No.17065960

    "we call it the hardon orchid."
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:22 No.17065974
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    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:35 No.17066046
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    Swamps have very poor soil so it's not good for agriculture, this is why carnivorous plantes evolve in swamps.
    As for a floating city, Venice of course.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:37 No.17066068
    Floating =/= Sinking
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:38 No.17066075
    sounds to me like the blindwater congregation
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:39 No.17066084
    Rio de la plata Argentina/Urugay/Paraguay
    It works.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:39 No.17066093
    Or Heroes 3's Fortress
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:40 No.17066098

    Swaps have very fertil soil if im not mistaken, thats why swaps are usually drained...farmland
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)15:50 No.17066183
    indeed. marshy ground and swampland is incredibly potent farmland once the water is drained away due to all the organic detritus that settles down and builds up over time.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:52 No.17066197

    Might it be wise to use an irrigation system to flood the plots in between seasons, similar to the Nile?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:55 No.17066227
    Only "swamp people" in a game we encountered, a player made her character from the swamp region.

    As per one of their many specializations, she was an ooze mage. By the thinking that they were surrounded by muck and slime all the time, so make use of it.

    Amazing, the things you can do with slime when you use your imagination. Of course eventually she ended up becoming ooze herself, but that's neither here nor there. She became a world threat, who's laughing now?
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)15:57 No.17066246
    The nile was a natural cycle, not an artificial one.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)15:59 No.17066263

    That's why I say similar.

    I remember they build a dam on the Nile and agriculture got fucked.
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)16:02 No.17066285
    because it disrupted the cycle.

    likewise, drain-and-flood would screw up swampland. because that's not the normal cycle of things. Notice how when they drain swampland to create farmland, it doesn't easily return to swampland again?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:02 No.17066288
    Always feels good returning to a thread that took off.
    Southeast Asian feels like a good reference point. Straw hats, rice paddies, that whole deal.
    Whoever asked, I was planning on making it a muggy, hot, marshy area, with some hunting and fishing further in the swamp.
    Of course, I was also planning on having them be a developed, culturally advanced society, so working that out without any large, heavy buildings is going to be an interesting challenge.
    I'd imagine they would value ascetism, or at least frugalism, because material possessions would be unwieldy, perishable, and mostly pointless.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:03 No.17066303

    No, I remember reading about it in Scientific American, in an article having to do with brain size.

    That is the reason skin prunes.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:07 No.17066335

    Well that's the thing I'm wondering.Build a dam, drain the water out, and flood in between seasons so the fertile residue can settle and fertilize the soil. Soil, after all, doesn't stay fertile forever.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)16:10 No.17066354
    IIRC one of the main methods for mass-harvesting cranberries is to flood the field, letting all the ripe berries snap off and float with the current then accumulate in a pool to be scooped up. You could play off of that, alternating what water source and byproducts you flooded a field with to re-fertilize the area.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:14 No.17066390
    > Not very metal rich
    Dunno about the rest of the world, but medieval finns got most of their iron from swamps actually
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:18 No.17066443
    Finn here
    I don't watch Finnish movies, they make me feel embarrassed
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:20 No.17066453
    >google swamp iron
    >get this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizard_Man_of_Scape_Ore_Swamp

    jesus christ how horrifying
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:24 No.17066492
    As for clothing- I'm imagining light-ish, woven clothing with thick rubber boots.
    Full sleeved shirts and coats, nothing too swishy.
    Muted tones, to help them hunt.
    Someone mentioned spears and bows. Those seem like the most useful weapons.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:25 No.17066507
    Pronged light spears for frog hunting
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:30 No.17066557
    Now the only thing I need is armour.
    Obviously leather wouldn't do too well, and metal would probably restrict movement too much....
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:32 No.17066574
    Light clothes with some heavier leather patches sewn in? Specifically for combat, some cool reptile leather like alligator I guess.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:33 No.17066584
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    >I ask because I've never actually been near a swamp and trying to google any variation of swamp culture/people/civilisation always ends up as HILLBILLIES LOL

    ...Have you actually tried casting aside cultural prejudices to research life in the Bayou and Florida swamps or did you dismiss every last bit of it as "LOL HILLBILLIES"?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:33 No.17066592

    Well if they have access to iron, they WILL use metal armor of sorts. I would suspect that a light suit made of leather and steel would be ideal. A cuirass, a helmet, pauldrons perhaps. Shin armor. Everything else would most likely be leather. Or leather armor with metal scales, similar to the armor of Greek Hoplites.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:38 No.17066643
    Swamp iron is very expensive and time consuming to make (you need to make charcoal first), so they probably won't be making much armour.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:38 No.17066646
    Hey, I was referring to the internet's prejudices, not my own.
    And I'm creating a culture from a time before the bayou was even colonised, so I needed some other real world examples.
    TO be fair, I did come across as kind of a dick. My bad.
    I can't imagine hoplite armour working out too well. Unless I'm imagining it heavier in my head.
    I'm digging the cloth+leather idea. Maybe the metal could be reserved for the heavy spearmen.
    Of course, people who fight in a swamp they know well would probably rely on guerrilla warfare quite a bit.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:42 No.17066682
    Yes, poisoned weapons, arrows, horrible traps would be the norm. The deadly swamp environment itself (depending on how far you want to make it) can be an opponent in itself. You could look into the bog devils in A Song of Ice and Fire for some inspiration. They essentially hold a chokepoint halfway through a continent and no one has ever successfully marched a hostile army through their territory.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:45 No.17066721

    A linothorax would be ideal, I think. if I recall correctly, they were made from a couple of layers of thick fabric and leather, sometimes covered with metal scales for additional protection.


    So metal would mostly be used for weapons, I take it.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:48 No.17066741
    Regarding spears, let's not forget they were the main melee weapon everywhere in the world, not just swamps.

    Swords were never true weapons of war, they were just fancy shit for nobles; their only uses were for cavalry and as backups for soldiers if the fighting got too close for effective use of their spears.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:49 No.17066751
    throw angry snakes at the enemy
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:50 No.17066762
    >allways assumed some dumbass english speaker misheard Deutch
    this is literally the reason - only English speakers call them that

    There's a crapload of funny inter-culture naming oddities though. Slavs call us Germans "dumb people" (not as a slur, that's literally what their normal everyday conversation word for Germans is)... as in "not speaking" not "stupid" though.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:50 No.17066764
    Um, being a cavalry weapon and a soldier's preferred backup weapon doesn't exactly discount it as a true weapon of war. In fact it kinda makes it the opposite.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:50 No.17066766
    How useful would javelins be in a swamp setting? I just have a hardon for javelins and I could see swamp-ninjas carrying three wooden javelins plus one leaf-bladed spear for combat.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)16:51 No.17066776
    >So metal would mostly be used for weapons, I take it.
    And not even the whole weapon. You'll see it mostly as spear-heads, arrow-heads, knife-blades, and axe-heads. Too precious to waste on large weapons that may not be all that effective, or only have one use and can't be pressed into service as tools.

    Go install Morrowind or Oblivion and read the book about the Armorer's Challenge. Heavy armor (especially on the legs) is a death-sentence in a swamp. Swamp-dwellers go for cheap, fast, and effective. Leather armor, at most. Lots of camouflage, lots of ambush tactics, ghillie suits, traps, and the like.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:52 No.17066778

    Amazonian guys like blowdarts, so short javelins could work - not as short as darts, but not so large that it's CANNOT THROW.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:52 No.17066787
    So... War darts. Basically tiny throwing spears (foot long at most I guess)?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:53 No.17066790
    The true weapons of war were the spear and the bow.

    Those were the weapons you would ideally be using in battle. If you found yourself using a sword it means shit went south.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:54 No.17066800
    By the way, wouldn't swamp bows be pretty ineffective, due the the damp conditions they couldn't make any cool composite shit.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:54 No.17066807

    Shit, go the full Morrowind length. Lightweight chitin armor from giant swamp bugs, assuming this is a fantasy setting.

    Speaking of this...how dense of a swamp are we talking? If the trees are particularly close together spears actually might not be a particularly favored weapon of war.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:55 No.17066809
    Linothorax does actually sound good, except
    > It has been suggested the fabric layers were bonded using animal glue. Although strong, this is water soluble therefore the armour would need protection against rain or sweat if this was indeed used.

    Yeah, but I'm willing to let flavour trump realism when it comes to that aspect of a setting.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:55 No.17066815
    Fuck, we need to make a setting of swamp warfare and politics.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:56 No.17066821
    Atlatls or amentums could be used to throw "war darts"
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)16:56 No.17066823
    The true weapons of war were *the weapons you had at hand to kill the enemy*. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't appreciate the beauty of a nice rondel dagger delivered straight through the scrotal sack.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:00 No.17066845
    The Inca had regiments of amazonian tribesmen that fired very long airrows that would penetrate the first two or three ranks of the enemy.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:00 No.17066849

    I know the book well. It's right next to the skyforge in Skyrim.

    I'm envisioning their equipment to look like a cross between Greeks and Zulus. Shields would be large and made of leather and wood, yet small enough to be carried comfortably on the back. A short spear with a long and broad head would be a good close combat weapon, and a small assortment of light throwing spears (perhaps poisoned) gives some long-range assault ability. Then of course there's archers. Maybe they should have compound bows. Not sure about blow darts however.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:04 No.17066880
    I actually considered chitin. Might still use it for a different culture.
    The thing is, I can't imagine that large, heavily armoured beetles would do that well in a swamp, though it is wet and warm.
    Well yeah, but they wouldn't be shooting terribly long distances either, so simple shortbows would still be effective.
    Does that actually make sense? I'm afraid I don't know much about weapons or medieval warfare.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:04 No.17066882
    tall narrow shiels, so you can run between trees.
    Instead of bows maybe javelins with that "elbow" stick used to really give punch and range to javelins, one that doubles as a club perhaps.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:04 No.17066883
    I think the blow darts would be mainly assassination weapons. They're seriously silent, even bows make noise and throwing weapons need room for arm movement. All sorts of poisoned caltrops etc could be cool.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:05 No.17066889
    Mainly problem would be the bowstrings. They'd have to make them from a single piece of sinew or something, normal strings would just rot away.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:06 No.17066896

    Giant centipedes. Go for giant centipedes.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:06 No.17066899
    That throw-boosting magic stick thing (I know they're real, just seem incredible) with a handle and perhaps some bone/iron banding for reinforcement, and a couple poisoned spikes for close combat.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:07 No.17066904
    specially treated rubberized gator intestine.
    only the strongest part will do so a hunter has to kill a gator on his won to get the choice piece of gut.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:07 No.17066915
    Trained giant attack centipedes would scare the fuck out of me
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:08 No.17066919
    Oh, and I wasn't thinking of an immensely thick swamp. In fact, the main city would be in the surrounding marshes, with some fishing towns and stuff in the swamps.
    The thing is, the only approach to the outer marshes would be through the swamps, so there's a tactical advantage too.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:09 No.17066922
    >Use Atlatls
    >Not a single fuck was given
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)17:09 No.17066926
    Not beetles. Roaches. And they wouldn't be that large, you'd have to make the armor like scale armor, with each 4-inch-long roach's shell treated and stitched together onto a leather backing. Flexible, plyable, lightweight, but hard to break through directly.

    Gator tendons, maybe? Waste no part of the kill and all that...
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:10 No.17066930
    Gator tendon now canon
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:12 No.17066938

    I'd expect a gator to have very short tendons... I should look up the anatomy real quick.
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)17:13 No.17066950
    why is this not yet archived?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:16 No.17066972

    No no, hang on. Someone mentioned the string would have to be made out of sinew since other materials would rot. However, a quick wiki dive says that sinew and rawhide strings are easily affected by water. Silk strings might be optimal but hard to come by, so Linen or Hemp might be optimal.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:17 No.17066982
         File1322691435.jpg-(150 KB, 1104x858, 1321059922720.jpg)
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    Do threads get archived often on tg ? I've only been a regular on this board for two weeks and i've already seen four threads get archived.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:18 No.17066990
    "As well as its practical use as a hunting weapon, it may also have had social effects. John Whittaker, an anthropologist at Grinnell College, Iowa, suggests the device was a social equaliser in that *it requires skill rather than muscle power alone*. Thus women and children would have been able to participate in hunting"

    Elite female only squad, Atlamazons.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:19 No.17067001
    Interesting. I've never been a big fan of scale mail, visually, but we could always go the simple route of having them wear a shirt over it or something.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:20 No.17067013

    We've got our own archive server, so we can afford archival much more often.


    Have fun digging through /tg/ history.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:21 No.17067017
    And kids as scouts and ambushers up in the trees.
    Squeaky voice : "rain death upon the enemy !"
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:22 No.17067021
    The queen/matriarch/whatever(haven't decided social structure yet)'s personal hunting retinue seems like a good bet to me. Easily usable in a war because they'd be trained in quietly stalking targets already and they'd just hit and run.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:22 No.17067027

    Woomera, combines a buckler, a stone hatchet, and cup/plate with a atlatl.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:24 No.17067046
    According to Eric Willmot, a leading Aboriginal scholar, a woomera and spear were the fastest weapons in the world until the invention of the self-loading rifle.[3]
    *The extra energy gained from the woomera's use has been calculated as -four- times as much as from a compound bow.[2]*
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:26 No.17067056
    >Many woomeras had a sharp stone cutting edge attached to the end of the handle with black gum from the triodia plant. This sharp tool had many uses and was commonly used for cutting up game or other food and cutting wood.
    >The woomera could be used as a shield for protection against spears and boomerangs.
    >a woomera and spear were the fastest weapons in the world until the invention of the self-loading rifle.[3] The extra energy gained from the woomera's use has been calculated as four times as much as from a compound bow.
    Okay, fuck the gator tendons. This is awesome.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:29 No.17067085

    You should look up some pictures of those woomeras. They look like hollow clubs, sort of like leaves even. It'd seem obvious to me that they use dyes and carvings to make them look like stylized leaves.

    In fact, they should focus on camouflage. We haven't touched on that subject too much yet.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:30 No.17067095
    Tree bark worn over clothes
    Using reeds to breathe underwater
    Giant flesh-eating attack centipedes
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:32 No.17067116
    Aside from dull colours and smearing mud on your face, I'm not seeing much.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:33 No.17067122
         File1322692437.png-(1.84 MB, 1606x969, Krieger_1926_Philippine_ethnic(...).png)
    1.84 MB
    Phillippino weapons.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:34 No.17067133
    Leaves or... Wodoo masks!
    Have them stalk though the swamp at night, covered in dark mud, enemies scared shitless at the whistling noise of javelins whizzing by punching though plate, nailing limbs to trees, cruel barbs tearign at exposed flesh, the only visible foe ghastly luminescent demon faces whizzing by.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:35 No.17067141
    Always wondered, what's up with the wavy-blade dagger designs?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:36 No.17067147
    >Giant flesh-eating attack centipedes
    Too grimdark for regular use.
    Although if I made a House Telvanni style bunch of crazy swamp dwelling mage-scientists that would be awesome.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:37 No.17067156
    Rib-braking, or so I heard.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:37 No.17067160
    Like a breadknife
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:39 No.17067180
    You'll be needing a pouch of herbs that produce potent aromatic chemicals coincidal with the centipede's pheromonal responses to control the beasties - perhaps delivering prey-scent gobbets via blowpipe.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:41 No.17067189

    Good lord, I thought /tg/ usually had it's sources and spoke intelligently.

    Alright, osmosis in one minute: Water will seek to have a balance of water-to-not-water. Therefore, if you have 95% water on one side of a membrane, and 96% water on the other, and the membrane allows movement of water, water from the 96% side will flow to the 95% side.

    Now, your cells allow the movement of water. When water that has a lower osmolarity is outside, water will leave the cells, causing them to shrivel. This is why, when you have swelling in the brain, doctors will inject saline with a higher salinity than the typical osmolarity of cells. Water comes out of your brain into your blood vessels; swelling hopefully comes down.

    In the macrolevel, your skin will shrivel as it loses water, because most water you see has a much lower osmolarity than the water in our body.

    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:42 No.17067194
    What about arboreal troops? I don't mean treehouses or anything like that, I mean troops that are trained to move and hide in the treeline, dropping poison, dart volleys, or giant centipede attack pheromones on unsuspecting troops
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:43 No.17067200
    Wait, wouldn't osmotic pressure mean that your cells would bloat in response to contact with a source of low-salt water?

    brb, settling this issue
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:43 No.17067206
    Giant centipedes are rare and dangerous, so they're only used by the ruling house to kill off rivals or invaders.
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)17:43 No.17067207
    A straight blade can "seal up" the wound behind it as the length of the blade fills in the wound and the blade's edges meet those of the wound, and the bleeding is limited so long as the blade is not withdrawn.

    A wave-edged blade is irregular, and thus there is no "seal", so the blood flows freely even with the blade in place.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:45 No.17067220
    Kertain layers in skin absorb water more than other layers, the keratin expands but other layers don't, causing your skin to buckle.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:46 No.17067222

    Or lunch.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:46 No.17067225
    Was mentionned in passing.>>17067017
    Some trees could be hollowed out in peace time to serve as an ambush spot when SHTF.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:46 No.17067226
    Not just salt. Seriously, after you get shriveled skin, put your hand in a bowl of distilled water, and you'll see the skin return to normal after a bit.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:50 No.17067260
    Are there any naturally occurring substances in swamps that can be harvested?
    Because then you could totally make IEDs out of hollowed trees.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:51 No.17067264
    Naturally occurring explosive*, derp
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:51 No.17067271
    Really? That would seem to contradict the explanation in

    And you already said that the water has a lower concentration of dissolved solute than the cells normally contain, so why would distilled water (an even lower concentration) reverse anything?
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)17:53 No.17067286
    "swamp gas" is mostly methane and hydrogen from decaying organic detritus, mostly in the form of rotting plant matter.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:54 No.17067289
    You said that skin shrivels because it loses water, but then you said that the water has lower concentration of solutes than cells!

    >When water that has a lower osmolarity is outside, water will leave the cells
    Isn't that backwards?

    Does not compute
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:54 No.17067294

    I could swear reading in Scientific American that it had to do with an automatic reaction dealing with wet conditions.

    Let me see if I can find the article on the Internet.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:54 No.17067297
    I heard that swamp gas can be dangerous.
    Only problem is that, well, it's a gas.
    I suppose you could just heap some rotten plant matter inside a hollowed out tree and set that on fire. Depending on how explosive it is, precisely.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:56 No.17067306

    Something that should have been done in the first place. It's skin turning pruny, not a wholly unexplored field of quantum physics.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:57 No.17067314

    The article I first read it in requires a digital subscription to read, but I was able to find this.

    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)17:59 No.17067330

    It had seemed to me that discussion on the topic had died in favor of getting back to the thread, so I didn't bother.

    My apologies.
    >> BARBARIAN !!WXmd45ve+ga 11/30/11(Wed)18:02 No.17067354
    collect the gas in some sort of container, equip container with fuse... FOOM.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:02 No.17067355
         File1322694151.jpg-(77 KB, 361x500, olmec1.jpg)
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    >ctrl f
    >no-one mentions the Olmec

    the olmecs built an entire massive civilization in the swamps of southern mexico. Look into some of the stuff they did, it's pretty badass
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:02 No.17067358
    I'm sure a proper alchemist can find the ingredients in the local organisms.
    Wich reminds me, peat (a flamable substance) is found in swamps and was quite expensive before the XXth century.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:04 No.17067365
    Soil, Plant refuse, Corpses and Excrement makes saltpeter mounds.
    Charcoal is easily attained, and sulfur can be found in areas rich in natural gas.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:04 No.17067367
         File1322694261.png-(147 KB, 1157x441, oh tg.png)
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    do ho ho
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:05 No.17067382
    I remember reading that summary now too.

    What you misremembered was it being a directed response from the nervous system. It's still an automatic consequence of the epidermis structure responding to wet conditions. It's just that that epidermis structure might have an adaptation that improves grip in those conditions.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:07 No.17067399
    >Olmec Diet
    A nearby garden was used for medicinal and cooking herbs and for smaller crops such as the domesticated sunflower. Fruit trees, such as avocado or cacao, were likely available nearby.

    Although the river banks were used to plant crops between flooding periods, the Olmecs also likely practiced swidden (or slash-and-burn) agriculture to clear the forests and shrubs, and to provide new fields once the old fields were exhausted.[83] Fields were located outside the village, and were used for maize, beans, squash, manioc, sweet potato, as well as cotton. Based on archaeological studies of two villages in the Tuxtlas Mountains, it is known that maize cultivation became increasingly important to the Olmec over time, although the diet remained fairly diverse.[84]

    The fruits and vegetables were supplemented with fish, turtle, snake, and mollusks from the nearby rivers, and crabs and shellfish in the coastal areas. Birds were available as food sources, as were game including peccary, opossum, raccoon, rabbit, and in particular, deer.[85] Despite the wide range of hunting and fishing available, midden surveys in San Lorenzo have found that the domesticated dog was the single most plentiful source of animal protein.[86]"
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:07 No.17067402
    What? Pruny skin is relevant to swampy conditions.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:09 No.17067415

    Fuck yes swamp Mayans.

    Now I have to do some doodles of a warrior in leather armor with maya-style decorations.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:09 No.17067421

    Ahh, thank you. It had been a while since I'd read the article it was mentioned in, so I'm not surprised I forgot something.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:09 No.17067422
    Way to miss the joke
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:11 No.17067433
    /r/ the blue girls one again.

    In any case, I think we've got the basic aspects of the military and survival locked down.
    Let's work on the culture for a bit.
    I was planning on having the marsh city have a governor or a lord while smaller swamp towns would be pretty much free, egalitarian societies.
    Honestly, I don't see these places getting too big. In fact, I can imagine some of the smaller villages being no bigger than Seyda Neen.
    As for culture as such, maybe they could have a series of ornate markers that they placed around the swamp to help them find their way? While there would still be signposts and stuff, sometimes it would be hard to keep on the path without tree carvings or something.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:11 No.17067436
    ... it's not about a thread supposedly going way off-topic?
    It's a joke about /tg/ being meticulous in attention to detail?

    Well.... yeah. That's true.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:18 No.17067489
    I really can't see swampmen forming kingdoms. They would probably have a confederate/city state structure. At most some settlements might form hegemonies around them like the Aztec empire.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:18 No.17067493

    Well, I like the idea of their art being somewhat Mayan/Inca like.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:25 No.17067539
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:30 No.17067562
    Well, most of the actual swamp towns would live pretty much independent of higher political authority, save taxes and stuff. On a day to day basis, they'd be left alone.
    Although a group of ruling Houses with their own electorate for ruler might work better. I could even give them their own flavour depending on how far into the swamp or out in the marsh they live.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:32 No.17067567
    Take a look at the Asmat. Should be pretty good inspiration and you can't really get more swamp-dweller-y than them
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:49 No.17067676
    How about ancient ruins of old civillisations, half sunk in the marshes because of natural decay and poor design?
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:49 No.17067685

    Go there, start voting.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)18:52 No.17067709

    Sounds like what I envision Black Marsh looks like.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)19:03 No.17067789
    Ancient? Not necessarily.
    Maybe there could be more or less intact ghost towns that were the result of expansionism by another culture that favours large or stone buildings that were abandoned when they realised that they had pretty terrible ideas.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)19:07 No.17067815

    Well, if they filled the swamp with rubble, it would work.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)19:40 No.17068061
    Going off your Telvanni-ish mages earlier-
    maybe a breakaway animist group who practice natural empathy through magic? Like animal commanding and stuff.
    >> Magus O'Grady 11/30/11(Wed)23:41 No.17069895
    well, the coloration also lends itself towards camouflage.

    If they're anything like Cajuns, leadership is less important. Each family looks to its matriarch and patriarch (Grampa/Paw and Gramma/Nanna/Maw). Trying to control groups of families is like herding herds of cats. They're going to do exactly what needs to be done as best they understand it, and you'd best phrase any advice you have as helpful suggestions because you do NOT want to insinuate that they don't know what they're doing. They do. They don't need a command structure, and they actually work best without them. If you absolutely need to settle a dispute, you take it to the family elders. If they're deadlocked or Paw can't make up his mind, you call in the family elders of the next closest family to help arbitrate over dinner. When it's done it's done, and everyone shuts their mouth and goes their separate ways.
    >> Anonymous 11/30/11(Wed)23:53 No.17070021
    That sounds like a fine idea for a smaller society, but I'm basing them off equal bits SEAsia and South American, so cajun ideas are hardly relevant.
    In fact, would family be terribly important in such a setting? Because of how swamps slow movement, the initial settlers probbably would have founded a number of towns over a relatively small area, but after they started carving roads and waypaths into the trees, mobility becomes much easier, between the villages at least.
    In fact, I'm thinking of a society where young adults are expected to leave their village and wander through the swamp performing seasonal make work until they get a serious career or settle down with somebody.
    >> Anonymous 12/01/11(Thu)02:51 No.17071045
    Then it's not that much a bog devil society, is it?
    >> Anonymous 12/01/11(Thu)03:03 No.17071080
    I'm not basing them off the bog devils.
    Nor am I basing them off the cajuns.
    Nor the Incas(not exclusively, at least)
    These guys aren't going to be very warlike. Over time, people have learned better than to fuck with the Saday, and the fact that most of their young men and women are trained in survival, travel, and hunting in the swamps means they have an almost instantly accessible military pool.
    Not to mention the edicts that call for the Saday empath-magi to send forth their centipede hordes and worm boils.
    >> Anonymous 12/01/11(Thu)03:11 No.17071102

    Sweet, so we can now use magic to a certain degree to flesh it out?

    Shamans with herbs and hallucinogens going in trances and all that.
    >> Anonymous 12/01/11(Thu)03:19 No.17071126
    Agriculture in a swamp is difficult, mainly due to all the water. So hunter-gatherer societies are probably the easiest.
    That being said, there's two broad categories to make agriculture work. You either

    A) Drain the land - this requires a lot of energy. The Dutch harnessed windmills for this mainly.

    B) Breed crops that thrive in lots of water. Rice is a good example of a crop that thrives in a water-rich environment.

    Likely you'd also see a lot of innovations that make getting around a swamp practical. Canoes or barges for long journeys are a must, as well as some sort of solid boot (likely made from leather) or alternately a raised platform shoe (maybe made from wood).

    Also, swamps vary pretty widely the world over, so having a clear picture of the sort of swamp will vastly affect the sort of civilization you put in. You could have anything from marshy peat bogs to silent forests of forbidding mangroves. Swamps are a lot of fun and really an underrated sort of environment for an adventure. There's a lot of environmental hazards that are more subtle than a barren desert or tundra.

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