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  • File : 1320722144.jpg-(95 KB, 600x753, Blood Axe Genrul.jpg)
    95 KB Ork Taktikz Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)22:15 No.16877022  
    >No 40k threads on the front page?
    Not anymore!

    Lately I've had a few games go down in very similar ways.
    >"Oh, you're running Orks? Ok, but don't expect me to go easy on you."
    >Crushing Victory
    >"What, how did you beat me?"

    The internet keeps telling people that Orks are bad. I'm here to fix this misconception.

    Note: I'm not going to claim orks are Top Tier compeditiveness, or even that they don't have some serious issues with their codex. However, outside of the hypercompeditive tourny scene where everyone only runs Top tier lists from top tier codexes, they're perfectly fine.
    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)22:19 No.16877074
    But... boss...

    Our Gitz with the Flash are not so good...

    And dem 'umie metal bawkses are hard to crack wit our crummy shootas
    >> Part 1: Proppa Kodeks Know-Wats Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)22:38 No.16877301
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    First I'm going to address the strengths and weaknesses of the Ork Codex.

    The biggest one out of the gate is the lack of REAL anti-tank. No meltas, our dedicated anti-tank units are bad at their job (Tankhunters don't even have the tank huner rule anymore, wtf GW?) and we don't have too many reliable ways to pop a transport, let alone a real tank. With the competitive metagame being largely based around MECHANISED armies and the ability to destroy these armies being paramount, this really hurts the orks.

    Our anti tank units aren't. Tankbustas only have Str8 ranged, with BS2. So 9 of them will hit 3 times on average, and get half a glance and one and a half penetrates on average, with no modifier on the damage chart. This for 135pts, on a unit that has no dedicated transport, can't run, and a range of 24". Not great.

    Zzaps average str 7, and won't even penetrate half the time vs AV10. If it hits. Kannons are cheaper and better at this, whilst also being able to swap to shell for anti-infantry, and the greater accuracy blasts give orks (more on this later)

    Finally, orks don't scale well. They're cheap like guard, and thusly can get boyz and toyz at low points values. As the points value of the game grows, orks get more and more constrained by the force org. chart, unlike guard, who have platoons to fit more stuff in to each slot.
    >> Da good stuff Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)22:45 No.16877396
    Flash gitz are useless. More on them in the section "Units not to use. Ever."

    And yes, popping tanks and transports is out big weakness, thanks to GW fucking up our rules this time aorund. In fact, the 3rd ed codex is stronger in the current metagame, since we have MUCH better anti-tank in it.

    - - - -
    All is not doom and gloom though.
    We have great anti-infantry, with even our basic shooting units being decent in h2h, and some of the most point efficient fire-power in the game.

    In low points games, we do great. People can't afford the tanks that we flat out can't kill (landraiders, monoliths) and generally can't afford any fun toys after 2 troops and a HQ. We can bring a whole lot of toys, and a couple spare mobs of troops to boot.

    Cities of death is also very good to us, giving us great cover, and making everybody else's vehicles less awesome.

    There are tricks to get around our weaknesses, and though we're still at a major disadvantage against the top tier lists from the top tier codexes, we're fine against the mid tier lists from the same top codexes. We're not in nearly as abd a position as most other armies, and of the 4th ed. armies, we're one of the better ones, despite many players somehow deciding we're as bad off as Tau or Sisters. . .

    Most importantly, Orks are never beaten. If you win, you win. If you die, you're dead, so it don't count, and if you run away, you can come back for anurva go, see?
    >> Part 2: Rookie Errors Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)22:57 No.16877532
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    There are mistakes I see ork players making time and time again, which I really had hoped they would have learned better by now.

    First and foremost: We're not a h2h army anymore. 3rd made us choppy, but our 4th ed 'dex made us a balanced army again. You try and run an all combat army, you will get krumped, that simple. Now we gotta mix the choppa and the pic related. Coz these days, we got us some good Dakka.

    Shootaboyz are 6pts a pop, T4, come with Assault 2 Str4 guns and aren't slouches up close either. Point for point, they'll outshoot most things. Everything else they can mob in h2h. Their weakness is a lack of anti tank, and this keeps them from being all one ever needs in an army.

    Lootas are great static firepower. Despite BS2, they have 15point autocannons effectively. A decent sized mob of them in cover can deal with some incoming fire, and will see off small units that would clean up other static firepower units.

    The thing to remember about orks is, that bs2 is counteracted by quantity. Quantity has a quality all of it's own. And their guns aren't half bad either. No meltas, but we have assault weapons EVERYWHERE.
    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)23:01 No.16877585

    Youz a smart one, you iz. Maybe one day you want to be da big boss?

    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)23:03 No.16877611

    >>Most importantly, Orks are never beaten. If you win, you win. If you die, you're dead, so it don't count, and if you run away, you can come back for anurva go, see?

    This. A thousand times this. Orks never lose.

    Eldar, on the other hand (the race I play) ALWAYS lose. I tabled an SM player in 1000pts, lost three Dire Avengers in the process, and it was a losing battle to me.

    Cuz after all... who's the dying race?
    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)23:10 No.16877709
    to quote one of my friends, you don't beat orks either. you assist in helping orks defeat themselves.
    >> Part 2: More Rookie Errors Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)23:14 No.16877759
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    The other mistakes I see a lot are at the army list selection stage. Many players gimp themselves before they even hit the table.

    Flash Gits: Too much flash, not enough dakka or choppy. Wayyyy overpriced.
    Wyrdboyz: Orks have two great HQ picks, don't pick this one, ever. And if you must, upgrade him to a warphead. But seriously, a bare-bones warboss will always be a better buy.

    Always get a good number of boyz mobs. You need troops to capture objectives, boyz will be your workhorse in most the armies orks can make.

    Any unit worth getting one of, is worth getting another of. Have at least two, and ideally three units to do any job. Even more important in bigger games.

    These things are great. They give a boost vs. most the enemies orks won't stomp in h2h anyhow, and thanks to craptacular initiative, striking last isn't all that big of a deal. It also means that your nobs can threaten tanks, ESPECIALLY REAR AV10 tranports, and you have a decent chance to pop a walker/MC before it chews through your boyz to get tho the protected PK centre. Uge choppas are not a replacement for a PK, under any circumstances.
    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)23:15 No.16877774
    So boss, if youz' goin' around, toutin' da marvel ov' da age dat iz da basic shoota, is you sayin dat 'deres no reason we should be fieldin slugga/choppa boys?

    Surely there must be somfin' dat slugga boys got goin' for 'em dat shoota boys don't.
    >> Part 2: Even More Rookie Errors Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)23:15 No.16877777
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    Bosspoles (cheap for what they do, keep the mob, and it's PK nob around for a bit longer. The number of times a PK nob and his two surviving cronies have won me a game by scaring some guardsmen off an objective, running to greab an uncontested objective, causing an emtpy enemy tranport to no longer contest my objective, snag a vital late game killpoint or just generally mess up enemy plans is uncountable.)
    Re-enforced Rams: Any vehicle that doesn't have a deffrolla should get one of these. Warbuggies gotta make to with the trakk upgrade, but this thing is gold.
    Deffrollaz: Also great. Orks have difficulty with enemy armour, this is made to monster-trukk enemy armour.
    KFF: Seriously, every army should have one if not two of these bad boys.
    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)23:20 No.16877838

    Ah...I remember playing Sisters of Battle against an Ork waagh...

    A Kommando Nob with a Power Klaw attacked an Immolator from the rear, blowing it the hell up. Unfortunately, the ensuing explosion killed the four surviving Boyz in his squad and injured him...

    Lulz were had by all
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)23:26 No.16877897
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    Sluggas have their place. With 4 attacks each on the charge, they will win combats much more convincingly then sluggas, which means huge negitives on the enemy's Ld test. "I'm testing at minus eight, on ld7?". Just realise that they can't go toe to toe with REAL h2h units. They can see off assault marines, given the charge, and a smallnumber advantage, but anything scary in h2h is better off being filled with lead.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/07/11(Mon)23:40 No.16878048
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    This is the downside to relying on melee to take out tanks. Boyz are cheap though, and every mob should have another mob nearby to help clean up the mess.
    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)23:46 No.16878105

    Deffrollaz were pretty much the reason I chose to play orks. I once ran over an entire Imperial guard command squad with them.
    >> Anonymous 11/07/11(Mon)23:56 No.16878172
    Hey OP, what's your op pinion on Hard Boyz?
    >> Part 3: Da unitz - HQ Bosses and Bigga Bosses! Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)00:04 No.16878247
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    A warboss is a good solid pick. He's good in h2h, tough enough to survive being picked out as an IC and has the wargear to hit back, and hard.
    Warger: Get cybork. Really, just get it. An invun is a big deal against someone who can be picked out by power weapons. A boss-pole is cheap, and very useful too.
    There isn't any terrible picks.
    Even Uge choppas let him charge at Str8, I4, with 5 attacks. This will allow you to instant death most characters that don't have EW. Slugga/choppa gives him 6 str6 attacks at I4 on the charge, which isn't to shoddy either.
    Although the above are enough for cheap bosses, PKs let him lash out at a monstrous Str10, no saves, and the Warboss is tough enough to survive to use it against most foes. He can also run up and casually flip a tank. In h2h combats where the win is already ensured, have the warboss charge a nearby vehicle (charging multiple units is fun!).
    Put him with nobs, to really beef up their h2h and take advantage of the FNP on the boss, or with sluggas, to turn a mediocre combat unit into a good one. Other good places to stick him are with burnas (grab a kombi skorcha for ANOTHER template, and give the unit the bosspole and Ld it needs), Snikrot's Kommandoz (you can ambush! in ICs, so another PK in their backfield is great) or Meganobs (who really can use his bosspole and leadership).
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)00:08 No.16878281
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    Fucking great. For 10 points they're a steal, since 5th edition means armour saves a big deal. I take a mob almost every game. Better on sluggas, where less things ignore the armour. Should be in a transport, because the armour save helps a stack when it (inevitably) explodes everywhere. Kult of Speed motto: Drive fast and die all ovva da place!

    Deffrollas allow the enemy saves, so they're not actually that great for squishing infantry. That said, if there's no meltas or anything else that will threaten your battlewagon in a Deff or Glory attack, then go for it. Worst case scenario is they step out of the way, and you mess up their positioning.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)00:09 No.16878289
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    These lads have the gizmos. He's a nob in h2h, so he won't go down like a chump, but his IC status makes him very targetable. Keep him out of combat.
    Good Wargear: KFF. Fuck this thing is amazing. Gives your 6+ save orks a 4+ cover, gives your shoddily armoured tanks obscured, and all around makes the army tougher.
    SAG: Big exxy bit of kit, that makes for a great killer of scary CC units. Just remember that inv. saves can often mean the unit doesn't just dissapear.
    Burnas are ok, a good "just in case" measure, but don't expect to use it too much. You don't want this guy being targeted to death, because there's no reason not to take one of the big, expencive bits of kit for him.
    With a KFF, he goes great anywhere. Keep him in range of as many units as possible, making a big bit of movable cover save for your army, but out of h2h.
    With a SAG he goes well with Big Gunz (Splitting fire is fun!, and he can use the unit's ammo runts), grots (aka. bulletcatcher ammo) or lootas (a whole lot more bang!).
    Otherwise, why are you taking him?

    Just don't take them if you want to win.
    If you must, get warphead. That's all I'm saying about that.
    >> Evil Sunz Deffwings Kommanda 11/08/11(Tue)00:30 No.16878429
    Oi, boss, I luv me some speed with my dakka and chop, being da boss ov some Deffkoptas an' stuff. I like me some bikes too, but I was wondering, how do I best use them over just runnin' 'em straight at da enemy gits? Seem dem boyz all be gettin' krumped, teef fer teef.

    An' I'm thinkin' maybe gettin' a bike for me, da warboss, too.
    >> Part 3: Da unitz - Troops: Da boyz and da runtz Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)04:14 No.16880570
    Boyz come in a bunch of different configurations, so I'll deal with them seperately.

    Footsloggin Choppas: Run up the table, and put some choppa in their face. Good if you think that they won't have enough anti-infantry power to deal with this, but most enemies will. Should always have a PK/BP Nob. They should be running, but more rokkits are always a good think, and they don't need to shoot them unless there's a good target in range, and they're not charging. Mobs should be at least 20, though above this they have difficulty manoeuvring. Use cover to make sure they get to the enemy in one piece.

    Footsloggin Shootas: Much like footslogging sluggas, but more flexible. Again, PK/BP nob is a must. Shoot the choppy and chop the dakka. Big shootas are usually a better pick for these guys, as they will be shooting at infantry. If you can get a bead on AV10 the shootas might be worth unloading, and the big shootas give you a chance at getting a few pens as well, but the target for these guys is infantry.

    Sorry, had guests suddenly surprise me. Taktika continues now.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)04:35 No.16880744
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    If you're still around, or catch this thread later, or if anyone just has the same issue:

    Koptas and bikes are mainly shooty units. You are orks, so if you charge, you should be able to see off an even number of plain marines, but don't expect wonders. Warboss on bike is great, but only if you have a bunch of bikes/nob bikers/deffkoptas for him to cruise with. He will likely peal off to throw a leman russ into the sun, but if doing so, you should use your speed to put him somewhere he won't be shot at (even if he hides behind the tank wreck) so that he can rejoin another unit later. A Warboss on bike makes a mob of biker boyz (with PK/BP nob) a threat in h2h, but don't expect miracles. Bikes synergise well with trukks, buggies, koptas, etc. since they all do well against low str firepower, will die to MASSED str4, and are usually best countered with str 6-8 multishot/blast/template weapons.

    Bikes big weakness is that they are made for being anti-infantry, and orks have that in spades. A PK on the nob helps give the mob a chance to damage tanks and transports (important) and don't be afraid of using their mobility to get into position to MASS DAKKA at their AV10 Rear Armour. 6 bikes should average a glance and a pen vs. AV10.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)05:09 No.16880992
    Slugga Trukkboyz: Consider putting a rokkit on the trukk, and one on the mob. The attack you lose will be worth it for shooting off the back of the transport or at the unit you're charging when you charge. Orks need all the anti-tank they can get. Once more, PK/BP nob. 'Ard is a great upgrade for these boyz, but I'm inclined to save it for a bigger mob that rides a battlewagon to get the most of oyur 0-1 'ard choice (wtf GW, really? 4+ saves are so broken on troops that you needed to limit them?). Trukk should get armour plates and one other upgrade. Remember to multicharge; small mobs can't do enough damage, but two mobs can be expected to wreck a target on the charge, and next turn be back in their trukks or running towards their next target.

    Trukk Shootas: An odd choice, but can be ok. Generally it'll dump the shootas near an objective, and the trukk will race off to ram stuff or pick up another mob. Also often used in concert with the slower battlewagons, so the unit can drive 6" and then fire the onboard weapons in a drive-by attack. Same ideas as sluggas for builds, just use them differently. Once more, multicharge.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)05:18 No.16881044
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    Slugga Wagon Riders: Mob of 20, Including PK/BP nob. Best place for 'ard IMHO. Jump in a HS taxiwagon, and jump out to wreck someone's day. Probably not worth getting any guns on, though a couple big shootas or rokkits (but don't mix) give them something to do until they jump someone.

    Shoota Wagon Riders: Will want to ride an open topped battlewagon (a shootawagon when we get to that bit). Drivebys are the order of the day, and thusly they should have a couple big shootas (for longer range and better synergy) in with them. When their ride pops, they'll want to walk to an objective to claim/contest it. Even here a PK/BP nob is a great investment, because you can't rely on the wagon staying intact.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)05:30 No.16881098
    On 1750 points I field:
    Bigmek with KFF, klaw, cybork body, attack squig, plates
    10 Lootaz
    9 nobs with different attire, a dok, banna, pole, two of them are klaws
    20 slugga boys
    20 slugga boys with two rokkits
    12 shoota boys in trukk with klaw nob
    11 shoota boys with big choppa nob
    Deff dread with 4 CCW

    And it's really a hit or miss thing. Either they rock the house when with even the two rokkit shooting down wraithlords and tanks (even when fleeing the battleflied)
    or they will do jack shit, getting slaughtered all over the place.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)05:32 No.16881100
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    Gretchin: These little bastards are the best worst unit you'll ever use. They're the canon fodder of a billion uses.

    1) Objective camper: A minimum mob costs 40pts, for 10 and a slaver. No reason not to fill your troops choices, just to get somone to stand on an objective.
    2) Living cover: If put just in front of your orks, in a thin green line, the orks will have clear LoS over the grots, yet have cover from enemies. 4+ saves all around!
    3) Speedbump: If deployed as above, they also force the enemies to charge them instead of the mob behind them. When they inevitably break and run, countercharge with your orks.
    4) Tarpit: Thanks to grabba stikks, and surprisingly decent leadership (7 rerollable) grots can tarpit some enemy units quite well.
    5) Moar riggaz: When a minimum sized mob rides in a vehicle it gains the ability to be a scoring unit. Additionally, they can jump out to block the approach of enemy meltas, or even to charge minimum sized melta toting squads. 5 marines with fancy guns will loose to 10 charging grots and a charging runtherd. Never underestimate the weight of numbers.
    6) Bulletcatchers: Put a big mek with SAG or KFF in a grotmob. They can allow him to do his job without being shot to death, and he lets them catch bullets for him.
    7) Not so weedy: Most compeditive armies will focus on many smaller squads, for more flexibility. This means 30 runts is still 30 shots followed by 60 attacks on the charge is AMPLE, regardless of quality. Well, mostly.
    8: Flankblockers: Kroottrollfacewhitescars.jpg
    They can stop infiltrators coming in to the battlefield by lining up along the board edge, so enemy units can't be placed on the field.
    9: So many more. . .
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)05:43 No.16881140
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    >The big guy is best kept for the big games. He's not bad, but he does take a lot of points in smaller games. That said, his 6" Waaagh! is great. Consider unsing him as a MAWB to free up points, though this is negotiable, particularly with footsloggaz.
    Bigmek with KFF, klaw, cybork body, attack squig, plates
    >plates? Also, he shouldn't be seeing combat, so the claw, cybork and squig is all wasted points. Cybork can be worth keeping, and maybe the klaw for "fine tuning" enemy vehicles, but there's almost definately better places to put the points.
    10 Lootaz
    >Static firepower, ok.
    9 nobs with different attire, a dok, banna, pole, two of them are klaws
    > A good unit. Cybork would be great here, and make sure the banna, pole and klaw are all on one ork - think of him as the boss of da nobz mob. That way you can get the bonus from the banna and pole right to the end. If you're going gorkamorka, get these boyz a ride. A taxiwagon would be a good investment. In fact, it very well may be a good investment regardless.
    20 slugga boys
    >PK/BP nob I hope? If not, GET ONE. Take him from the nob mob if need be.
    20 slugga boys with two rokkits
    >Same as above.
    12 shoota boys in trukk with klaw nob
    >1 trukk is rarely a good idea. You'd be better off without it IMHO. If you're going footslogga, your fast units should be stormboyz and kommandoz. Otherwise, try getting the nobs a trukk, and putting the other sluggers in a few trukks.
    11 shoota boys with big choppa nob
    >Mob is too small. Big choppas are only good when paired with a kombi-weapon/TLS in a nobs mob. If you want another scorer, grots would be better.
    Deff dread with 4 CCW
    >Proppa goffik. Ideally it should be backed up with more walkers. A mob of 3 kanz would be my pick.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)05:47 No.16881161
    Why iz I only seein' dis'ere thread as I'm goin'ta rest f'r more krumpin'?

    Better be 'ere when I'm back! (All current posting saved in case I'm not, you're a great man, Smartboy.)
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)05:51 No.16881179
    Dammit, forgot stuff.
    Of course the nobs are inside a battlewagon, together with Ghazkhull and the Bigmek (With plates I mean the 4+ armour).
    And I have nobs with klaws inside the slugga boy mobs.
    And the 11 shoota boys got a trukk as well.

    If I'd replace Ghazkhull with a normal warboss in mega armour I could upgrade the other shoota mob to 12 boys and nob with klaw as well, but Ghazkhull's waaagh is just so helpful, especially since I'm so good at rolling 1's.
    >> Part 3: Da unitz - Fast attack Wazza Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)05:56 No.16881200
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    Ork fast attack is where a lot of the best anti-tank is found. Not becuase it's high strength, melta, or anything, but it has the speed to fire TL rokkits into rear armour, and then potentially follow it up with some klaw-work.

    Deffkoptas: TL Rokkits is almost assumed. Prone to leadership issues, so running them solo is popular. However I find that they'll die to a swift breeze that way, and with more you can change the wargear around to abuse WAC and get a few wounds of damage before they dissapear.

    Buzzsaws mean that you can charge whatever you've rokkited, for some kamikaze Str7 vs rear armour action. A bigbomb gives anti-infantry again, which can be used to try and soften up the units that will inevitably try and kill your fragile flying machines.

    Warbuggies are great at getting into position to use their TL rokkits to blast enemy rear armours. They also make great cover for trukks, being much more expendable. Get three, always. Go big or go home. TLBS are great against infantry, but you have ample anti-infantry. However, you can also damage AV10 with these. Skorchas are Str5 (so can hit AV10) templates (so don't need to roll to hit) and are generally better for anti-infantry, though they will die to massed bolters, so be careful - especially as they need to be up close to do their best work.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)05:59 No.16881215
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    Fair cop. Well, then you look to have a standard gorkamorka type list. Though I'd likely make the sluggas shootas, and the shootas sluggas. Sluggas need the charge, and manouvrebility gives them that, whereas shootas can happily walk around dakka-ing stuff as they go.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)06:19 No.16881300
    In general, what should the ratio between big shootas and rokkits in a standard list be?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)06:44 No.16881431
    How do Bikers fair compared to say Buggies; Trakks.(*
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)06:49 No.16881454

    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)06:52 No.16881469
    It depends a lot on the rest of the list. Big shootas are anti-infantry, rokkits anti-vehicle. Rokkits won't deal eith AV13/14. So in order to bust real tanks, they need to be able to get side/rear shots. If you have other anti-tank (a lot of fast power-klaws, all your fast attack is deffkoptas, deffrollaz and rams everywhere, kannons/killkannons/boomguns) you need a lot less rokkits. If your rokkits are fast, then you need less. A twin linked rokkit is almost as good as two rokkits. 3 TLR is equal to 5 normal rokkits, to be more exact. A good rule of thumb however, is to take one of the chimera-spam lists for whatever points value you're at, and ask "Can my army deal with this." Doesn't need to be well, or nicely, but could you realisticly see yourself beating that with the list you have. When in doubt, err towards rokkits - orks themselves are great at anti-infantry, and vs 90% of the infantry that you need to dakka (CC units that will wreck sluggas and fuck up nobs) rokkits are almost as good as bigshootas. The others are termies (which require massed fire anyhow, or a SAG/Zzap guns if they're not TH/SS) and 'stealers (can be delt with using flamers or more massed fire). That said, shootaboyz find big shootas much more complementary with their own firepower.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)06:56 No.16881487
    This thread is superb.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:04 No.16881513
    I tend to do a do or die list based around klaws.
    It either fucks shit up or fails but its fun as hell.

    2x6 bikerz with a klaw plus a boss on bike with klaw - the FW model is huge as fuck.
    Followed with a battlewagon with deffrolla and a full 20 boy choppa mob with a klaw nob and a big mek with KFF.
    Next to that 2 lots of 5-6 nobs with as many klaws as i can afford in some trukks.
    A looted boomwagon and some shootas/lootas to back the shit up.

    Get in their face and try and bash the vehicles dead or hope maybe my scatter dice come up a hit with the looted wagon.
    Actually had more trouble so far with Tau and CSM than the GK/SW/DE.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:19 No.16881586
    This thread is wonderful. I saved two copies of it (html and text), just in case one disappears or the archive goes boom.

    >Project xsMSon
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:22 No.16881612
    Some advice to proppa playerz.

    The ork army is higher then most on the compeditive scene, but not a top tier codex. This is mainly due to their built in weakness (lack of reliable ranged antitank) being a serious issue in MechEverywhereEdition. There are some ways around this, but they're not as good as MELTAS EVERYWHERE etc. Still, they have a chance to compete in tournies mainly by playing the meta and bringing something that isn't expected to the table. Expect them to be that army that makes the finals because no-one expects them, but is knocked out before top position.

    Orks generally have cheaper, less armoured, less reliable equivilents to most units, and as such more then most armies they rely on the three Rs. Redundancy, Repition and Redundancy again.

    Your vehicles are trash bolted together, and will die in droves. Soloution: Bring more droves. It's simple. Don't rely on one unit to do anti-tank. Bring two, minimum.

    40k guns tend to be good against only a few unit types. Lascannons are goof vs tanks and light vehicles, but suck vs infantry, whereas Big Shootas are good anti-infantry but suck at anything heavier then the lightest of vehicles. So, don't bring one vehicle for their lascannons to target easily. Go BIG or go home. 3 trukks will die by turn two at the latest (in a decently sized game at least) but 9 trukks and 9 buggies will last a lot longer.

    Redundancy Again:
    Most armies will practice the two principles above anyhow. Orks need them MORE.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)07:22 No.16881617
    Again, depends a lot on the list. Orks are (mostly) pretty well internally balanced, the glaring issues being huge deals however. If it wasn't for the terrible anti-tank at range, and no real alternative to meltas/lances/etc. things would be even better.

    Warbuggies work best if you're taking a lot of AV 10 already (trukks, etc.) as do bikes. Both can offer obscurement one way or another (bike units up front allow good obscurement, while they use their self generated 4+ cover to stay alive themselevs).

    Buggies and trakks can take TL rokkits, which makes them great anti-vehicle. Don't expect them to live too long though. You'll struggle less with parking-lot issues, since you'll trakk over or ram through wrecks (both are IMPORTANT upgrades) and your own vehicles are smaller, and more able to go through terrain and use terarin to hide.

    The extra terrain wrecked buggies give your army is also a plus. Bring a few "exploded buggy" craters. You'll need them.

    If you build anti-infantry buggies, you can go bigshoota, which have similar firepower to a bike, but with longer range (better for staying out of h2h) but more expencive (but not by as much as you'd think). Also, more fragile, but their anti-vehicle firepower should have bigger issues to deal with.

    cont. in next post
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:22 No.16881620

    Good at punching in faces, and wrecking up the shop. Also good for leading units. Bad at surviving ID shenanagains, although they get to ignore the normal scource of ID (Str8 PFs) and deal out a lot of this (PUNCHIN' AT STR10, SO DEAL WITH IT).

    A solid, cheap choice. Almost impossible to make useless, as even a nogear warboss makes a cheap but good addition to a boyz mob to keep them in the battle. Get cybork and a PK for optimum 'urtyness though. After this, the wargear depends on where he'll be. Bikerbosses ride with bikers, 'evy armour walks with some boyz, MAWB rides in a vehicle with the ladz. Even the otherwise pretty crappy UC is ok, giving him Str8 on the charge strikes at init5, to try and ID some commanders. Bosspole is good, since he can give it to units that otherwise can't get their hands on it.

    Big Mek
    If you want compeditive choices, comes in two real flavours, KFF, and KFF again. In some lists a SAG mek can be handy. If you want something for actual fighting, stick to the warbosses, as a BM is just a nob that can be picked out in hth. That said a burna (just in case) helps him if he does end up in CC, an extra flamer is rarely bad and is relitively cheap.

    Generally not a good pick. If you do take it, make it a warphead. Problem is that he's a little too random, and can't fill any role reliably. Add that he's competing for a valuable HQ slot and well. . . . Generally the only tactical advantage he gives you is that you can expect his shenanigans more then the opponent will.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:24 No.16881628
    DA SKARBOYZ (Elites)
    Static Ranged unit, with 1d3shot autocannons for 15pts each. Pretty decent pick in the right lists, can't deal with real armour reliably (it is str7) but is death to light vehicles (trukks, buggies, DEldar vehicles, etc.) Won't be able to line up the side/rear armour shots they need to threaten most transports with str7, but occasionalyl you'll get the chance, so take it.
    Upgrades: None worth mentioning. Ever.

    Units of flamers everywhere. Lack a nob and bosspole, combined with ork armour (lol6+ saves), no dedicated transport and average unit size, they're fragile. However, if they reach the enemy intact, expect a lot of burnas, everywhere.
    Upgrades: Mekboyz, with rokkits (nice way to sneak a little more ranged anti-tank into the list which orks need), Bigshootas (gives them something to do while they march upfield) and KMBS (see rokits, but gets hot and AP2).

    Popular in dreadbash armies, since the meks can keep the kanz walking, and the kanz/KFF means that they have the cover they need to survive. Also good in Armorked Krumpanies, again, because of meks. Note that against termies, if you can cover three terminators with the template, you're likely to do more damage shooting then with the power weapon. Espeacially against 2+/3++ SS/TH termies. Also note taht if firing out of a transport, you put down one template, and all the brunas firing use that on, so drive by flamings are very viable.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)07:24 No.16881629

    Skorchas are great for making toasty messes out of anything with a 4+ save or worse. Still good vs power armour, being able to do more damage, but do have to place themselves in compromising positions to use it. That said, buggies are expendable with a capital S (for Scrap). If they survive the battle, you're doing it wrong. Use them to block enemy line of sight. If they have some heavy weapon squads, park in front of them, blocking all their LoS and flame. Either they move, so you can do it again, or they nuke your buggy to all hell - but if it doesn't explode, they gotta waste next turn moving as well. If it does explode, hopefully you take a few with you. Also, most heacy weapon squads are minimum size to save points - this means that the skorching should do some damage, particularly if they're trying to make the best use of "cover".

    Bikers are great anti-infantry mobile firepower. Use them to dakka the enemy choppy. If you can do it in a way so he can't charge you, all the better. Most combat units have some form of speed advantage though, so don't expect to be able to kite forever. Gauging where the 18" is so you can be just in range, but as far as possible from them is important. Only charge when you must.

    Bikes can come in a few configurations.
    1) Powerklaw nob, with bosspole and two cronies to catch bullets for him as he hunts tanks.
    2) Bigger mob, that will take a good amount of firepower to remove (with a PK bosspole nob, T4(5) and 4+ save plus 4+ cover, they're resiliant) and can be expected to pull their weight in h2h. Use them to multicharge. Never charge alone with KoS units.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:25 No.16881637
    Good at: Beating Face.
    Bad at: Dealing with massed Str8+.
    A good combat unit; if you take a lot of them bring a WAAAGH banna and a dok for cybork. Don't get too many PKs, one or two is generally enough. . . ok, maybe three. Abuse WAC if you're not in a friendly game, if you are, then don't be THATGUY.
    UCs are only good if you have your fill of PKs and the ork has lost the +1A for 2ccws anyhow (thanks to taking a kombi-skorcha or kombi-rokkit). Don't put them against anything with powerfists/thunderhammers everywhere unless you plan on mincing the enemy before they hit. They're better dealt with by other units.

    Slow and 'ard, they have aq few issues. Lack of WAAAGH! bannas, bosspoles, cybork, means that they're relegated to being a bully units: Stompting units that aren't good at hand to hand into the dirt, but dying to anything with a power weapon or two (And gork help them against powerfists or thunderhammers). That said, they can be helped with a babysitting warboss. However they need a ride (oh god SnP), and since they can only fit so many in, they're generally not taken in highly compeditive lists, especially as they compete for the elite slot with other units, including their generally superior less armoured mates.

    Snikrot can make them a monster in the backfield. They synergise well with deffkoptas, and with x2 rokkits and a PK/BP nob they can take a few shots at some tanks, first at range, then in melee. Don't take just one unit, unless it's being led by snikrot.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:25 No.16881640
    DA BOYZ (Troops)

    Foot sluggas
    Note that these guys are a bully unit. They'll ruin non CC units in h2h, but a real cc unit tends to wipe the floor with them. That said, numbers are often a great equaliser, and with 4 ws4 s4 attacks each on the charge, only a few need to survive to eat face. PK/BP nob is a must.

    Foot Shootaz
    Versitile. Chop the shooty and shoot the choppy. Generally best given bigshootas, so they become better at anti-infantry, since they'll likely be shooting on they way in anyhow. PK/BP nob is still a must. Your best way of dealing with termies.

    Ideally multi-charge these into other units to ensure a clean victory. This is easily done given the manouvrebility of a trukk and their open tops. Remember though that your trukk is fragile, and your boyz don't like walking across the tabke in mobs of 12. Oh god the PK/BP nob is a must. Usually better off with sluggas.

    As otehr boyz, but with a save. A good pick for filling a wagon with, or a trukk. Generally better as sluggas, but can work ok with footshootas. Once more, a PK/BP boss is a must.

    Objective grabbing, unit shielding, charge taking, enemy obstructing runts. Lovable, disposable, cheap. Don't expect them to kill anything, but don't assume they won't either. Surprisingly good leadership, thanks to squighounds. . .
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:26 No.16881642
    DA WAZZA (Fast attack)
    Bikes: Good, mobile anti-infantry. Ork boyz do infantrykilling great already though. PK/BP nob a must. Use their speed, it's what they are for.

    With twin linked firepower, they're better shots then guardsmen. 3TL rokkits on side/rear armour is some of the best anti-tank orks get. 3TLBS can be fun for dealing with infantry at a good range. 3skorchas are great vs infantry too.

    Give them TL rokkits and a buzzsaw, and hunt tanks. Bigbomms can give them their anti-infantry back, if you want to. Fragile, generally kamikazee'd, but often overlooked until they nab a tank.

    Small mobs hide behind cover, and avoid drawing attention, big mobs have too many orks to do that, and instead jump behind the line. Regardless, theyse boyz are for multicharging. PK/BP Nobs are usel- . . . can't even type that with a straight face. . .
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:27 No.16881652
    DA 'EVY STUFF (Heavy Support)
    Not really a main battle tank. Instead it's a glorified transport. Will look at the different options

    Deffrolla, a big shoota, maybe a kannon. Grot riggas and plates are good upgrades.
    Get 20 boyz (or 10 MA boyz) to where they're going, and don't let tanks or terrain in your way stop you. Once you drop them off, find a tank to roll over. Use the open topped to your advantage.

    Looted Russ
    Fakes being a MBT, but isn't. Still, the pieplate is good for killing beakies, and people often don't expect the boyz hitching a ride. Killkannon, ard case, bigshoota, maybe a kannon. Armour plates and grots are still decent. Deffrolla is still good too, but if not, get a reinforced ram (for ignoring terrain). Don't expect them to equal a russ. Do hide a mekmob (burnas, with maxed meks) inside, to fire out. 3 burnas 3 meks means that you can fire all of one weapon type out of it at once, burnas if they're close, otherwise rokkits/bigshootas. Generally rokkits, because you need them.

    Again, dealing with in two sections. With and without a boomgun.
    Boomwagons (with a boomgun) are cheap artillary that will die, fast. They're rhinos with a huge gun strapped on, don't expect them to be anything else. Take two or go home.
    Lootedwagons without a boomgun are sub-par transports, and generally not worth the HS slot. If you take them, be sure to have a role for them, and a LOT of other light tanks.

    BS3 is good. Kanz are good at what they do, and what they do is walk around shooting and klawing. One on one they'll loose to any real walker. Which is why they take three, and mob them. Ideally take at least two mobs. Ideally cover them with a KFF. Use them to give cover to other mobs behind them.

    The killa kanz, bigger, but retarded cousin. Good in dreadbash lists, where you take them as troops for MOAR WALKERZ but generally you're better of with kanz. . .
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:27 No.16881657
    Big Gunz
    Zzaps are bugzappas. Don't let the codex fool youn into thinking they're still anti-tank, their average str of 7 means you're better off with lootas, who can at least get a lot of shots off. They're good at targeting MCs and using high str and low ap combined with BS3 to ruin their day. Can be a good place to hide a SAGmek too. Bad at everything else. Ever.

    More anti-infantry, but at least it can hide out of the way, and uses blasts.

    Cheap, can fire as anti-vehicke or anti-infantry. Get a few ammorunts and you can make your points back often enough. You can join your SAGmek to these guys, and they make good aberlative armour, and can usually help kill whatever the mek shoots at.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:30 No.16881671
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    'ere boss ive been playin orks fer aaaages. youve been givin good advice so far, have a squig cake

    here what i'd like to see in their next codex, whenever it may be:
    lootas come with shootas as well as their deffguns
    transport and 'eavy armour options for lootas, burna boyz and tankbustas
    1-3 weirdboyz as an elites choice instead of hq choice.
    zagstruk, snikrot and badrukk are HQ choices who make their respective units into troop choices
    burnas as an option for ork boy mobz
    can mix and match shootas and choppas in boy mobz
    no restrictions on 'ard boy upgrades
    actual wargear options for meganobz (theyre the richest orks in the warband but cant hire a painboy or take bosspoles?)
    frag stikkbombs as basic kit for all units
    cheaper trukks
    looted wagons come in squadrons
    feral ork cyboar boyz
    mad boyz
    weird teknikol gubbinz for mekboyz (like the haemonculi and cryptek upgrades from DE and Necrons)
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)07:35 No.16881706
    Nobs in trukks and choppas an a BW? Seems backwards, but if you can make it work, kudos.

    Holy shit. Was reading that, thinking it was familliar. Pretty sure I wrote that. Get my thread archived and my advice reposted, feelsgoodman. And then I find this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNrNcwWX6xg
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)07:44 No.16881759
    lootas come with shootas as well as their deffguns
    >Nah. Options for real looting would be better. They're static firepower, they don't need shootas.
    transport and 'eavy armour options for lootas, burna boyz and tankbustas
    >YES. At least some way to open it up, to give KoS armies the versitility they need.
    1-3 weirdboyz as an elites choice instead of hq choice.
    >Nah, elites are really fought over too. Just make them viable and somewhat controlable, not LOLRANDOMSHENANAGAINS!
    zagstruk, snikrot and badrukk are HQ choices who make their respective units into troop choices
    >Maybe. I'd prefer so see Drillboss, Kommando Kaptain and Freeboota Kaptain, become the HQ choices that do that.
    burnas as an option for ork boy mobz
    >Me too.
    can mix and match shootas and choppas in boy mobz
    >Why? You wouldn't want to.
    no restrictions on 'ard boy upgrades
    actual wargear options for meganobz (theyre the richest orks in the warband but cant hire a painboy or take bosspoles?)
    >Agreed. They don't need the painboy (because how does he operate thorugh mega-armour) but medisquigs (more exxy workaround to get FNP priced appropriately for 2+/5++ monsters) and cybork should be options regardless.
    frag stikkbombs as basic kit for all units
    >I'd rather stikkbommas returned as a unit. A troops tankbusta lite, with frag'n'krak, also one in ten gets a soopastikkbomb added to the special weapon options.
    cheaper trukks
    >Not really needed, they're pretty cheap as is.
    looted wagons come in squadrons
    >YES, YES, YES
    feral ork cyboar boyz
    >Awesome. At least one MC version, with the BIG SQUIGGOTHS left for Apoc.
    mad boyz
    weird teknikol gubbinz for mekboyz (like the haemonculi and cryptek upgrades from DE and Necrons)
    >Take them straight out of older codexes.
    >> Iron Lung 11/08/11(Tue)07:45 No.16881763
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    This Thread iz da WAAAGH!
    Props from the poncy, pointy-eared end of the stick.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:45 No.16881767
    You are a total baller. You saved my Ork game. I repost that stuff whenever someone needs Ork advice, because it was so damn good for me.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:48 No.16881782
    i made some rules for madboyz

    Madboyz, Elites 8pts each
    WS4 BS0 S3 T4 W1 I2 A2 LD10 SV6+
    10 - 30 Madboyz
    W&E: pair of choppas
    S!R: Fearless, Furious Charge, Waaaagh!
    Eager for Combat
    Madboyz want to fight even more than their 'normal' orky bruvvas. They have the move through cover and rage USRs
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:50 No.16881798
    madboyz have an...unorthadox method to close combat. at the beginning of each assault phase, roll 2D6 on the chart below for each madboyz mob engaged in close combat, including those that have charged that phase. effects from the skitzo chart last until the end of the assault phase
    2 - "GRRAAAAAAGH!" - The Madboyz work themselves into a terrifying whirlwind of violence
    Each unit, friend or foe, in the same combat as the Madboyz takes 3D6 Strength 5 Rending hits, allocated as shooting hits. The Madboyz are then removed from the battle as casualites.
    3 - "Urr...Wot we doin again?" - The Madboyz temporarily forget they are in a fight
    The Madboyz fight at Initiative 1, regardless of any bonuses
    4 - "Arrrgh dey's everywhere!" - The Madboyz cannot tell friend from foe
    The Madboy Mob fights as normal, except that any missed hits are rolled to wound against the unit itself
    5 - "Urgh, everyfins spinnin!" - The Madboyz lurch about as the world flips around in their vision
    The Madboyz and any models attacking them must re-roll successful to hit rolls as they lurch around unexpectedly.
    6 - "Blaaargh!" - The Madboyz stomachs are upset. This doesnt bear thinking about
    A single enemy unit in base contact with the Madboyz has is Initiative reduced to 1
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)07:51 No.16881801
    7 - "Time fer fightin!" - The Madboyz have a short moment of orky lucidity
    The Madboyz fight as normal in this round of combat.
    8 - "Im cuvvered in bugz!" - The Madboyz hallucinate that they are under attack from hideous bugs
    The Madboyz fight as normal, except the unit takes D6 wounds as they try to get the bugs off each other. If the Madboyz are in combat with a Tyranid unit, they will hit and wound on rolls of 3+, regardless of comparative WS or S & T
    9 - "We likez bitin fings!" - The Madboyz decide they want a taste of their foe, quite literally, in fact!
    The Madboyz have +1 Attack & Rending
    10 - "Dat makes me angry!" - Something about their foes really ticks the Madboyz off
    The Madboyz have +2 Strength and +2 Initiative. This is cumulative with the furious charge bonus, if they have charged this turn.
    11 - "GOTTA CHOP" - The Madboyz put as much force as they can into chopping things
    The Madboyz' choppas count as power weapons
    12 - "Whirrin Deff!" - The Madboyz attempt to imitate the bizarre flying devices of the mekboyz
    The Madboyz fight with double the amount of attacks they would normally have (before bonuses for charging & pairs of choppas) and may re-roll failed rolls to hit and wound.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)08:00 No.16881854

    Gotta try that.
    >> MEGA(MAN) NOBZ Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)08:03 No.16881875
    Well, since someone's posted the rest of my take on the units, I'll mention additional information, or changes of opionion since I wrote it, and then move on to the next bit.

    With a babysitting MAWB with the works, a larger mob can become a combat threat - kinda. Still not cut out to deal with powerweapons, but overcomes the crippling Ld issues the unit suffers from, and you can happily charge three units and their transports all at once, knowing that when you hit back you'll wipe the floor with ALL of them. Parking lot becomes scrapheap. If your opponents are fond of boxing in their shooty units with transports, in a rhino-riffic castle, TEAR IT DOWN AROUND THEM, AND DARE THEM TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Cheapest scource of PKs, since it comes with a 2+ save, and a surprisingly shooty TL Shoota.

    Small mobs in trukks make good anti-tank. Charge all the access points they can reach and block as many as they can. The MANz should open that box up. If you wreck it, they're wiped out, if you explode it, the survivors won't like what they have to deal with, and the MANz will likely be fine.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)08:04 No.16881884
    I love this. Orky as fuck.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)08:05 No.16881891
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    the only wyrd boy i ever bothered with was Old Zogwort. just to have that character killer in a squad of 30 boys. His squad would regularly chase named characters around and with 30 Ork boys between him and any kind of close combat that bastard stuck around long enough to squig many a Independent character.

    somewhere I have a small collection of squigs converted up a few with Templar shoulder pads, a marnius squig, commissar squig, even a blue tau squig and eldar squig. The crown jewl of the squig collection was a pair of Ctan squigs. I need to go dig my boys boxes out of storage and find them again.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)08:08 No.16881909
    This is the stupidest list of ork tactics ever.

    Thanks for the brilliant advice, captain obvious
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)08:12 No.16881940
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    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)08:20 No.16882006
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    Go suck an egg, I like it.
    >> BATTLEWAGON BASH'EM'UP Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)08:29 No.16882072
    This thread learned everything it knew at the-waaagh.com. Goff fortress, check it out. If anyone wants to replay me, check out the Klanz Projekt in there, and give soem feedback.

    Looted russes: Ordanance means the pie-plate is also decent at dealing with vehicles. Two 'hits' on the scatter die, means it's more accurate then normal weapons.

    On all battlewagons: How I didn't mention GET DEFFROLLAZ or at least reinforced rams I don't know. Enemy vehicles shouldn't stop your tanks from going where they want to. Parking lot? More like demolition derby!

    Make sure you have KFFs for your battlewagons. Those things are magical. It's cover for when your tank is actually in midair, jumping over (well, onto) three rhinos at the same time. It's cover for anyone near the wagon, and generally means that the enemy wants to assault us. That's right, come closer, to the mekmob with burnas hiding in the back!
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)08:42 No.16882179
    I thought a lot of it was obvious too, but not everyone sees it right away. I've noticed a lot of ork players on /tg/ asking for advice and not getting the basics told to them. I decided to get the basics out there, and it's helped a few people.

    Zogwort is decent for dealing with ICs that give you a lot of trouble. He might be our answer to theftcron the killalltheboyz.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)08:47 No.16882205
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    >> Syna. . .Sinner. . . Synna- Zog it, gubbinz wot work togetha! Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)09:05 No.16882318
    Now ork armies NEED synergy. Induvidual units won't be able to deal with everything they need to, so you don't let them. There are lots of different synergies in the codex, but there's a few you NEED to know.

    KFF + Anything
    Seriously, it makes anything 50% tougher to incoming firepower. What's not to love. KFFs should cover the most units, the most important units and the squishiest units possilble.

    Burnas + Battlewagon
    I like to take a mekmob (5-6 ork burna mob, with the max meks possible) with rokkits. Chuck it in a Looted Russ, with a KFFmek if you can. It can throw an extra 3 rokkits at a different target to the tank, or throw the 3 templates down on anyone wanting to attack thw wagon. They can also do running repairs on it too, making the whole thing very versitile and much tougher then ork tanks really have any right to be.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)09:32 No.16882491
    Stormboyz can come in two forms. Sneaky and Mobbed up. Sneaky stormboyz stay out of LoS, and act like a trukkboyz mob, using multicharges and FLIGHT (instead of wheels) to fight.

    Mobbed up stormboyz are too numerous to hide, but they'll be towards the back, and use their numbers not to die. Then they'll use their speed to catch up the the rest of the army and then cahrge with everything else. Works best with non KoS armies, and gives footslogger armies some mobility without adding units that are vunerable to anti-tank.

    Kanz work best with footsloggers as well. Wall them up in front of the walking boyz to cover them, fire at the enemy, etc. Make sure they have a KFF covering them. Firepower as you move in, targeting the things that would give your boyz trouble in h2h. Charge the power-weapons, and anything that would mince up boyz, but have trouble with AV in hand to hand. Don't let them get melta-shots off at the kanz, keep them behind the boyz if need be. The boyz will still have the KFF to protect them.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)09:40 No.16882536
    How good is Zagstruk compared to bringing a nob. For the life of me I can't seem to find his rules in my codex.
    >> For da wazzaboyz Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)09:44 No.16882552
    Kult ov Speed advice:
    Multicharge everything. Know how many orks enemy combat units can kill on average, and make sure you have enough survivors to win the combat. KNOW how many mobs this means you need to charge your most common problems. Don't ever let your problems charge you. You have the manouvrability, pick your fights. Anyone tries to outspeeed you? You're faster. Well, maybe Deldar lists can try and compete, but use the fact that you have more units to take out his fragile transports (ork firepower can mess up deldar ships) and then go faster.

    HQ: Warboss with vehicle riders
    Warboss on bike

    Nobs in trukks
    Nobs in battlewagons
    Nobs on bikes
    Meganobs in trukks and in battlewagons
    Burnas (in a HS transport)
    Tankbustas (In a HS transport)

    Trukkboyz of all types
    Wagonboyz (using a HS transport)
    Nobs from Warboss
    Rigga Mobs (minimum grots to make HS vehicles scoring, throw on objectives and generally use to your advantage.)

    Fast Attack
    AT LEAST 3 Buggies with rokkits
    More buggies

    Heavy Support
    Looted Russes (remember they can take 12 boyz in too)

    Try and use every slot, since there's a cheap unit in every slot worth taking.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)09:46 No.16882560
    Deep striking isn't that great, and his strike at I powerklaws still hit after anything worth worrying about. Don't use him much, and don't have the codex on me, so I can't give much advice on him. Still, probably good if you're running 3x stormboy mobs, even if only to mix things up.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)09:46 No.16882564
    My Zagstruk and his unit end up dead most of the time, landing on top of the enemy or scattering too far away to do jack shit.
    it's fun though when he does get in close combat.
    >> Armorked Krumpany Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)10:03 No.16882675
    For those of you who love tanks, some advice on running an armoked krumpany.

    Firstly, your tanks aren't MBTs. They can't be MBTs, but they can compete with MBTs by being what they are: Glorified transports that eat people.

    I like to use Killkannon, kannon, Ard 'Case, Deffrolla, Riggers, plates and RPJ as my standard loadout. RPJ allos me to get the advantages of moving 7" (harder to hit in h2h, etc.) without the disadvantages (not firing the killkannon). Throw some boyz in the back, and it's good to go.

    Grabbing Klaws help deal with pesky skimmers and fast moving vehicles, grabbing them still so your passangers can jump them and hit them more easily. Passanger tankbusers are ok, since they won't get to run anyhow, and 5 rokkits from the hatches is an alright deal .You can fit a PKnob or Tankhammer in tehre as well, for when h2h isn't avoidable.

    Elites will me nob-squads in more wagons. Nobwagons should have a kannon and another weapon. Remember, shells from kannons are your only defencive weapons. The nobwagons need deffrollas, and should be nob delivery systems, designed to get the nobs beating face fast and efficiantly. The nobs need to beat down anything that will threaten your tanks, and your tanks need to blast everything else all over the place.

    Warbosses (for extra troop nobs, and more battlewagons)
    KFF Meks

    Nobs (w/ BW)
    Manz (w/ BW)

    Boyz (In HS Wagon)
    Riggaz (Grots in HS Wagon)
    Nobs/Manz (From Warboss, in wagon)

    Fast Attack:
    (These should be your outriders, and generally just there to protect the wagons).

    Looted Russ Battlewagons
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)10:11 No.16882729
    >RPJ allos me to get the advantages of moving 7" (harder to hit in h2h, etc.) without the disadvantages (not firing the killkannon).

    That works?
    isn't a RPJ: +1", but don't take it into account?
    Like driving 7" let's the enemy still hit on 4+?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)10:14 No.16882752
    Yo, I'm completely new to 40k, I'm just getting started and I decided to go with the Orkz, because green is betta.

    I've bought two sets of Assault on Black reach and sold the marine to a friend who's also getting into warhammer.

    I'm looking for some good low point tactics, I'm willing to buy much more. I'd like a good load out for both 500 and 1000 point games.

    I'm willing to buy more models, I'm think i should probably grab a Big Mek with KFF, and If Kanz are any kind of useful I think I'd like to go with a strategy based around them.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)10:20 No.16882784
    Okay boss, so oiz been finkin.
    Da Kult of Speed and da Armorked Krumpany got one fing in common -- dey both use a lot ov vehicles, and ain't too keen on footsloggin.

    Wouldn' it be smart finkin to kombine da two armies into one? Usin da "Kult of speed" detachment to outflank, outmaneuver, and harass the enemy whilst da "Armorked Krumpany" detachment provides heavy fire support, and sweeps in late-game to mop up da survivors?

    Whatchoo fink, boss?
    >> Footsloggaz, lissen up! Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)10:22 No.16882796
    For those who like to take it slow and on foot

    Your have the potential advantage of denying your opponent any AV. This means their meltas and lascannons are wasted points. However, you loose out on manouvrability. You can get around this in a number of ways, but youhave to make sure the advantages from denying their meltas exxy targets are larger then the disadvantages you get for walking.

    KFF Mek

    Nobs (Not MANz)

    Shoota Boyz

    Fast Attack:
    Deffkoptas (maybe)

    Big Gunz.

    Walk across the table and hit them. The first couple turns are straightforward, use cover where you can, shoot where you can, run where you can't. Keep your stormboyz out of sight. You'll take a beating, but this is expected. When you start to close, tactics start to come into it. Time your WAAAGH! well, don't waste it. Make sure you charge multiple units when you can beat both of them convincingly, and multi-charge other untis, to be sure to beat them convincingly. Stormboyz should assault their rear elements, jumping over the speedbumps in order to stop them firing on your horde once you disengage. If it's a capture the objective mission, make sure you have lots of troops converging on most the objectives. If there's 3 objectives, pick two to take, and make sure you take them completely. Deny your opponent the other one wiith whatever's left. This way, if he contests one of your objectives, you still win. If it's killpoints, remember to wipe out units where you can, and if they're running, make sure they'll keep running (off the board) or wipe them out if there's not time for that. You need to keep your eye on teh game all game.
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)10:31 No.16882865
    I shall be in here in a bit, to give some thoughts and NoVa experiences (I got stomped on my later games, heh), but most my armies are some variation of:

    -KFF Mek
    -Either a Boss/Ghaz/Weirdboy...or nothing (More Boyz)

    -Two units of Lootas, No Exceptions
    -2 Battlewagons, no exceptions. Either from Heavy Support, or as dedicated transports (usually the Nob units in question are near min-sized, and act as semi-expendable demolition units).

    -2 units of 2 Warbuggys with Rokkits, no exceptions. I experiment with slot 3 at times, but it's mostly a 3rd Buggy unit nowadays.

    Heavy is 2 units of Kans normally. Usually Big Shootas (range) or Rokkits (blasts).

    Basically, I run Orks as a bunker army. They have a large footprint which is normally their largest weakness ("Refuse flank with elites, prevent Boyz from bringing their strength to bear"), but it can also be an advantage (Nowhere to outflank/derpstrike, or I can stagger my defenses). Normally, the Buggies are my MVP unit by merit of being utterly expendable roadblocks.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)10:34 No.16882887
    You don't take any disadvantages into account. Read the wording. It's pretty much the entire point of the upgrade IMHO, since 1" a turn isn't really worth the points.

    Kanz are GREAT.

    If you like Kanz, try a Kanmob (like a dreadmob, but with more kanz, since they're better)

    HQ: KFF Mek

    Elites: Burnas (with max meks)
    Lootas (consider meks, but probably not.)

    2 Dreadnaughts
    Boyz (though hardcore Kanmobs leave them at home, and take 4 40pt grot mobs for all your scoring needs).

    Fast Attack:

    3x 3Killa Kanz (better then dreds)

    11 walkers, all under KFF shielding the meks, who will repair any broken kan/dreads. The Kanz and lootas fire on the way in, the troops jump on objectives, your dreads kamikaze charge things and provide h2h muscle, your meks burn infantry that gets too close and deals with melta-threats.
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)10:41 No.16882917
    Oh, and as far as Meganobz:

    I don't bother with Grotsnik, babysitter bosses, or really, anything beyond taking the minimum 3 MANZ, and 2 Kombi-weapons (I've alternated between both kinds; if I'm running Ghaz, then they get Rokkits to shake some stuff on turn 1. If I'm running a pair of Trukks in support of the wagons, they'll get Skorchas, for I can more reliably set up tankshock clusterpiles for the burninating).

    I have several roles for them:
    -OHMYGODJCABOMB! 3 Meganobz on the Charge=12 S9 attacks. Even against Cruising-speed vehicles, you will average 2 hits. Against combat speed vehicles, or those that didn't move (since you presumably stunned/immobilized a few beforehand), they hurt. I think of them less as a unit to last the game, and more as a bomb.
    -Pseudokans: Kans and Mans...actually work fairly well in tandem with each other, as the former provide cover and protection from tankshock, and the latter can Waaagh in to bail the Kans out of being tarpitted down. They are also both vulnerable to the same type of weapons, creating saturation issues (one issue that showed up with "Boyz behind a Kan Wall" was a Grey Knight Stormraven army. It reserved in, Mindstriked the mob from angles where it didn't get cover...then banhammered the Kans next turn).
    -Actually, make that assault-support in general: I run them in support of Mobs, rather than as a deathstar. All the Force Halberds in the world mean jack if 8 of 9 of them need to be allocated to a Boy mob beforehand. Better yet, use weakened/small Boy units to draw attacks, and *remember* the rules for the assault phase, for it's a commonly messed-up part of the game.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)10:46 No.16882939
    There's a bit of crossover, definately. However, KoS wants those heavy slots for transporting boyz, or boomwagons. An armorked krumpany uses them as the core of the army. The difference is in how much points are spent on the wagons in HS, and how much is invested into trukk mobs, boyz, etc. They're both the two sides of the mekanized ork army scale.

    Seems like a standard balanced midline list. I find that they aren't good enough at any one thing to be as good as some of the other ork builds, since orks need redundancy, and only two units for a role seems odd. How do you fare against some of the chimeraspam armies out there?

    Additionally, >rokkit (blasts) ?
    Rokkits are solid shot only. You're not thinking of grotzookas, are you?
    >> How to into Assault, and Common Mistakes MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)10:51 No.16882983
    Aka, RTFM, or "wait, you can do that?!!?"

    The Assault Move:
    -Move the closest model in the assaulting unit, to the closest enemy model in the unit you assault. If he dies to DT...try again with the next closest model to your opponent.
    -Once the initial model is moved, you can move the rest of your Boyz in any order desired, provided the list of BRB conditions are met (unit coherency is the big one). The order in which you move your boyz does matter.
    -The enemy reacts to assault using the same rules for assault barring no DT checks. Do *note* that if an enemy stretches out in a thin line, and you assault opposing ends, most of the unit will not be able to react for it will break coherency.
    -Note the errata that if an enemy model is in base-to-base with only one unit in a multiassault, it *must* attack that unit. It takes practice, but learning to aim Grots into, say, Powerfist Sergeants, is a good way to keep your elite stuff lasting longer.
    -Note that only unsaved wounds inflicted count for combat res. If a Nob is instadeathed? 2 wounds for CR...*inverse7ly* however, should you sacrifice a 5-strong Loota unit to assault a Draigostar, and the Paladins inflict 25-something wounds on them? It only counts as 5 wounds for CR. There is no "overkill" bonus.

    Oh, and if you can help it, make sure you have a Buggy or something cheap 6" or so behind any Marine units you intend to assault. After all, you *don't* want to let them ATSKNF...
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)10:52 No.16882989
    Bully mobs. Indeed, they work awesomely against the things boyz can beat, and die twice as fast to real CC units. They also are good at anti-tank: as I said, it's the cheapest scource of PK goodness in the game. And they work well with boyz, though you have to be wary that they'll force halberd your MANz with what they can, and beat your boyz soundly enough to pull out a win regardless. Then both mobs will run, especially the Manz. But that comes down to how much each player throws at the problem, and orks usually can throw away more at these things.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)10:54 No.16882995
    Just to correct, The KFF is a 5+ save for everything, vehicles are obscured so they're 4+. I'm pretty sure the FAQ corrected that to 5+ as well though
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)10:55 No.16883004
    Derp, I am still waking up. I did mean to say Rokkits. I generally quit running Grotzookas.

    The Chimeras themselves aren't the threat, I normally find. It's Reserve Manticores being able to go "Advance here...fire Missile to side armor of Wagon." My normal answer so far has been "tough it out" or considering terrain distribution as I plan my advance; I usually play for 'securing objectives' rather than tabling (that and knowing Manticores and Hydras have slot competition).
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)10:59 No.16883026
    It's still a 4+. The change was:

    "Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those
    within 6” of the custom force filed will count as

    Meaning for a squad of 3 Kans, you need to have 2 of the 3 vehicles obscured for the 3rd to benefit.

    They did also FAQ that 'Yes, you can attach a Biker Boss to Snikrot's Unit and have him Ambush.'
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:03 No.16883049
    Well it's still a 5+ for regular units, says so in the codex.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:09 No.16883106
    Hmm, how large Burna/Mek units should be taken in this kind of list?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:12 No.16883123
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    Saw people were confused the other day on Doom Scythes, so here is the quote from their rules:

    >Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.

    So each unit has some number of models under the line. So if you have a unit of 8 with 3 units intersected by the line, that unit suffers 3 hits, not 8.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:15 No.16883146
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    that image should say "pedal faster" instead of "drive me closer"
    >> Versus X-Y-Z army, perhaps? MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)11:21 No.16883183
    When I get back, I'll probably give a primer on how I have dealt with certain armies in the past. I've lost a few games due to derpishness on my part and good opponents. I've won some through play, some by idiotic luck, and some...because of opponents being silly? Yeah...

    Anyway, before I ended up putting most my stuff in storage (It'll be coming back out soon, once I'm done relocating), I mostly fought (both IRL and VASSAL) Space Wolves and Dark Eldar, with the occasional fights versus IG/BA. I've only faced a GK list once, and it was basically a direct-copypaste of Blackmoor's NoVa Draigowing as my opponent wanted to test it. ("So...how did he win with this again? I'm not seeing it.").
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)11:21 No.16883184
    Shit, yes, 5+ cover. Was thinking ahead of myself, with eh whole grotsave/bike cover, etc.


    Other synergies:
    Kommandoz/Stormboyz: Both end up on their flanks turn 3, and are on foot without transports. You can charge their 'dakka' units, and then run to help the other unit if they're struggling. Stormboyz give the kommandoz that CC punch they need, kommandoz bring burnas/rokkits.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)11:36 No.16883292
    Depends on points. Priority one is to max out the mek count. Priority two is build the mobs up, but you don't want to build them up so that they're hard to conceal behind the kanwall. I find 6 burnas and 3 meks a good number.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:39 No.16883308
    >those necrons in that image...
    Aren't they robots? Why would they need hand controls for a vehicle? And need 2 crew for it too?
    Wait why would a "finished all technology" vehicle need controls at all?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:40 No.16883318
    What's the best way to field just a shitload of footslogging boyz?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:42 No.16883335
    Just field a shitload of boys.
    Next question.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:44 No.16883348
    This rule is up for debate, guy.
    Technically, depending on your english syntax, both are right.
    I tend towards the unit of 8 takes 8 hits ruling, if only because it follows the anti-horde trend necrons have.
    But I will not claim gospel, it's simply how I read english.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:45 No.16883354
    Shootas with PK nob, big mek.
    Have some support for them, like deffkoptas or warbuggies in order for them to not all die.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:46 No.16883360
    Boss! Boss! Where runty yoofs come from?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:47 No.16883367
    I've got the german version and here it says, that a unit takes as many hits as the unit has models under the line.
    Which means Unit A has 4 models under the line, so it takes 4 hits.
    Unit B has 2 models under the line, so it takes 2 hits.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)11:47 No.16883369

    Warbuggies tend not to work so well as the only AV in a list.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:49 No.16883380
    "I'll tell ya where dey come from!" The boss says and shoots the boy in the face.
    "Dat iz where dey come from! Harhar!"
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:49 No.16883381
    Not how it comes across in english.
    Like I said, I'm waiting for the faq.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)11:50 No.16883391
    Really guy? The anti-horde trend makes more sense to you then the idea that it's supposed to be a frickken lazer beam cutting people along the line up?

    Runty spores, of runty orks.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:51 No.16883400
    So, on 1500 points I've got:
    A Bigmek with KFF, klaw, armour, cybork body, squig, pole
    10 lootaz
    10 lootaz
    20 boys with 2 rokkitz and a nob with klaw
    20 boys with 2 rokkitz and a nob with klaw
    20 boys with 2 rokkitz and a nob with klaw
    20 boys with 2 big shootas and a nob with klaw
    20 boys with 2 big shootas and a nob with klaw
    20 boys with 2 big shootas and a nob with klaw
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)11:52 No.16883410
    At that point, they are some.
    I didn't say they were the best, but at that point it's either your mobs getting ripped to shreds or your buggies.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)12:01 No.16883489
    Footsloggas tend not to care about the mobs being torn up. They need resiliance to survive the first two turns, and from turn 3 you should be getting in combat from both flanks, (kommandoz) up front (boyz, duh) and everywhere else (stormboyz, koptaz). Footslogging isn't a top tier start to start with, so all you can do with it is maximise it's strengths, and realise that you're going to loose some games before deployment.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)12:01 No.16883490
    Is it worth taking two trukks with the bare minimum, cheapest mob of troops I can in it as a diversion to draw fire away from my advancing boyz and nobz outfitted for melee and rokkitz?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)12:12 No.16883580
    They wouldn't have included the "underneath the line" at the end of the sentence unless they meant only the specific models underneath the line. I understood it the other way myself until I re-read it a few times.
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)12:43 No.16883831
    I return.

    My 4th game at NoVa had me lose terribly. I was under the weather after game 3, no sleep, prior IRL issues, and tournament noobishness (hence the surprise-stress for competing for one of the tournament ace titles. "OhgodImfightingforace?!!?").

    My 4th opponent was Mike Hoffman aka Batmanuel from Dakkadakka. Of all the armies to run table 4, he ran Green Tide. At 2000 points, he ran:

    Ghazgkull Thraka: 225 points.
    Boss Hogg (See Pic Related): Klaw, Warbike, Cybork Body: 135

    6 Kommandos, Big Shoota, Snikrot: 135

    4 Boy Mobs of 30 , 3 Rokkit Launchas, and with Bosspole/Klaw Nobs: 250x4=100
    19 Gretchin and a Runtherd: 67

    3 units each of 2 Warbuggies, Rokkit Launchas: 70x3=210

    2 Looted Wagons, with Boomguns: 105x2
    Total: 1997

    Hoffman is a pretty cool guy, but the game itself was a nightmare of emotional stress on my end, impatience on his. Long-story short, he reserved everything except Ghaz and his Shootas in a Spearhead objectives mission, and I obligingly advanced. Instead of going for a full-out advance, he slowly spread out his mobs in skirmish-lines, to crawl for objectives and to create a thin-green-line.

    On turn 2, his Warbuggies and Wagons managed to reserve in as does a Grot unit. He fired several shots, sidesniped one of my Wagons that passed most its saves (it lost its gun, IIRC). I lose a few Lootas to Boomgun fire as well though they hold, and the Grots move to one end for getting an objective as well.
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)12:46 No.16883847
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    I return-fire, take out a few buggies of his (Note: Warbuggies have next-to-no model height. Thus between terrain and him running his Boyz up front, he was able to acquire cover sans a KFF) and one of his boomwagons, and charged too early. My Ghaz charged his Ghaz...but I screwed up the angle of attack so I wasn't able to actually contact his Ghaz. I win the charge slightly, but he holds.

    Then Snikrot comes from the rear alongside Boss Hogg, and the Slugga Boyz reserve in to make a full advance towards the rest of my army. Long story short, I was enveloped...and called it afterwards. One thing that he mentioned was "you do know next turn that *my* Ghaz will pop *his* Waaagh and krump your Ghaz" and between that and most of my mobility having been negated, there was basically no way to win; Hoffman was one of 16 tournament aces, and I ended up in tournament 2...though I ended up resigning after game 5 (Overslept and missed the game, then ended up playing a judge. And I ended up doing some *really* dumb stuff...like forgetting an entire shooting phase with my Lootas).

    Stamina matters, but at the same time, playing a careful movement game can make all the difference when running an army that shouldn't work. I was *very* careless, and got outflanked by Orks (and relearned one of the most basic 5th ed lessons: Make sure you have some ability to hit hard from reserve for Spearhead missions).

    And here's the Boss in question. He went hog-wild on my backline elements.
    >> A Tyrant Named Grog !!afNn9CvHZM/ 11/08/11(Tue)12:48 No.16883866
    FINALLY. Someone on /tg/ who doesn't have their head up their ass when it concerns the Orks.

    Good work OP. Keep fighting the good fight.

    BTW, you're on The-Waaagh I take it?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)12:53 No.16883903
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    >He went hog-wild
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)12:59 No.16883946
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    And another pic of Boss Hogg.

    My first game was a ringer (Chaos), my second game was a fairly trollish win on my part (versus DoA Blood Angels, and Sanguinor), and my 3rd game was an attritionary shootout with Dark Eldar (the guy had come from beating Mark Ferek, last year's runner-up. He was running JP Blood Angels).

    There are some minor things I found in-game, including that:
    -As all DE Lance weapons make Battlewagon Front armor equivalent to side armor...there really is no reason to advance from the front with your wagons.
    -Venoms do jack to vehicles.

    Thus, of all things, I find that the more Venom-heavy a DE player goes, the more likely I am to turtle up in a corner for the initial phases of the game, and use my wagons as mobile LOS-blockers for my Lootas. By limiting the amount of inbound Splinter Cannon my Lootas receive, I get a few extra turns of respite. Usually, once the Ravagers are negated, DE don't have much in the way of "antisquadron" capability. They have a *lot* of Lance/Blaster options, but most of them are "one per unit." Thus you can usually dump lots of "shaken/stunned/etc" results on the same vehicle repeatedly.

    One way or another, the real issue I find with Orks is that their best AT elements are either *very* short-ranged, or excessively static. Very little of the army is capable of reliably reserving in, so *that* is generally secondary to "tough it out" as your alternate option. Orks have a *really* annoying ability to lock down a lot of the table, short of bringing lots of Fast Tankshock-capable vehicles. Meganobz are *really* useful for protracted melee as opposed to Boyz, just because they keep fighting until they're dead; Boyz lose power gradually.

    This said and done, keep one or two Kans on-hand to block any attempts to ram your Wagons should you do this. For DE, trading a Raider for an autohit cover ignoring S10 hit on a Wagon is a good trade.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)13:05 No.16884000
    Here is how I run my Orks, I win ~90% of games with this list.

    1 Battlewagon
    1 Battlewagon - Big Shoota; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job
    [Unassigned: 3 Big Shoota]

    3 Big Gunz
    3 Big Gunz - Ammo Runt; Kannon

    1 Big Mek
    1 Big Mek - Mek's Tools; Kustom Force Field; Choppa

    90 Boyz
    78 Boyz - Shootas
    9 Boyz - Big Shoota; Shootas
    3 Boyz Nob - Bosspole; Slugga; Power Klaw

    2 Deff Dread
    2 Deff Dread - Dreadnought CCW; Dreadnought CCW
    [Unassigned: 1 Skorcha; 3 Dreadnought CCW]

    12 Lootas
    12 Lootas - Deffguns

    9 Nobz
    5 Nobz - Cybork Body; Choppa; Slugga
    2 Nobz - Cybork Body; Slugga; Power Klaw
    1 Nobz - Bosspole; Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner; Slugga; Power Klaw
    1 Nobz - Cybork Body; Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon

    1 Painboy
    1 Painboy - Dok's Tools; Cybork Body; 'Urty Syringe

    5 Tankbustas
    3 Tankbustas - Bomb Squig; Rokkit Launcha
    2 Tankbustas - Rokkit Launcha

    1 Trukk
    1 Trukk - Red Paint Job; Big Shoota

    1 Warboss
    1 Warboss - Bosspole; Cybork Body; Slugga; Power Klaw
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)13:06 No.16884013
    Tank bustas ride in the BW with the KFF Mek which is flanked by the 2 dreds. (Tank bustas with bomb squigs can hit 2 different things when shooting, just dont roll a 1.) When your BW will be threatened by a unit charging it hop them out to form a shield wall and if you have squigs left, let them rip. Trukk Nobz w/ boss go in reserve, this usually allows them to assault the turn they come in if you saved waaagh! If you dont put them in reserve they will just get shot to shit or maneuvered away from. Make sure all your boyz are covered by the bubble (only 1 model needs to be in range for the whole squad to get the 5+, learn to make tails.) Target prioirty #1 with Orks is shit that throws out pie plates. They cant stay on the table or you will lose. This is what your kannons and lootas are for. If you stun it move on to the next thing (unless it is fag knights or demonic possessed)
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)13:10 No.16884048
    That boss hog reminds me of one of the first things I thought of when I read the Ork codex when it was released.

    >A warboss may not have mega-armour and a warbike, as he would probably fall off a lot.

    I want to make a Warboss with mega-armour on a custom warbike, which would probably be more like a Wartrakk in size.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)13:15 No.16884096
    Not necessarily.

    Shit that throws out pie-plates is only a 'must-kill threat' if it can reliably do enough damage to you each turn. Spreading out foot-troops, investing in KFFs and/or Grot shields, can help to mitigate a lot of that incoming damage. It is certainly a high-priority target, but how much so depends on your list, and what else they have on the field. An army built around warbikes and battlewagon-transported units for instance (warbikes, not Nob bikes), won't have as much to worry about. An Ordnance round typically only gets about 2 to 3 bikes on a shot, and you'll always at least have a 4+ cover unless they've gone for the Collusus (i.e. specifically tailoring to fight you). In that kind of situation, something more pressing would be the mass-dice unit, or hard-hitting vehicle killers (like the melta-vet chimera driving up on you).
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)13:16 No.16884103
    Squeal like a squiggy, boy!
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)13:37 No.16884298
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    Nice thread, just cruisin' through
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)14:13 No.16884649
    Alright. I run green tide. I refuse to put the boyz in vehicles- they're proppa goffs, not weedy evil sun gitz. I'd be okay with dreads and kanz, but avoid them on account of wasting the opponent's antitank firepower.

    But I digress. Besides roll over and die, how should I cope with dawn of war deployment with a green tide list?
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/08/11(Tue)14:18 No.16884689
    The Colossus isn't that good against Bikers for cost anyway, *especially* in Dawn of War. A minimum range of 24" is easily felt when you cannot fire directly.

    In most cases, I find I'm generally gunning for those units that can fire multiple mid-strength shots/turn. Be it Hydra Batteries, Rifledreads, Ravagers, Hive Guard, or Missile Long Fangs, I usually go for negating those early on. With the more static options like Fangs in particular, I usually go for cornering up, and sweeping my way from one flank to the rest, with Battlewagons doing their part to maximize front armor against as many shots as possible.

    In general, if my opponent is "Mass shooting on turn 1, assault on turn 2-3," I will go for reserving Buggies/Trukks as needed as I corner up. If my opponent has less range, then I'll keep the Buggies on-board. Usually, I find that while they *can* do damage, that in itself ends up being secondary to the fact they're *exceptionally* annoying and will deny movement to your opponent as-needed. (Sacrificing a Buggy to deny a turn of movement for a Land Raider=Good deal).
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)14:28 No.16884802
    Colossus is silly anyhow- for its cost, you could take two Griffon Heavy Mortars.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)18:26 No.16887421
    Oy, smartboy OP! What'choo got fer low-points strateegees? Say, 500 points or so.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)21:59 No.16889848
    In low points there's no point using elaborate strategies. Just stick a bunch of boyz on the table, maybe some in trukks, and run them at your enemy. Warboss and nobz probably do better in the trukk than the boyz, so just footslog them across the table. For example:

    Warboss (w/power klaw) - 85 pts
    Nobz (five) - 100 pts
    Trukk (dedicated to Warboss + Nobz) - 35 pts
    Boyz (two mobs of twenty-two) - 264 pts

    TOTAL - 484 pts.

    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)22:11 No.16889993
    Question. Is it possible to have both a KFF and SAG on the same Mek?
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)22:14 No.16890025
    Fix the codex in two easy steps!

    Boyz i3
    Can consolidate into assault again
    Waaaaagh! First turn
    Boyz mobs can take 1 special weapon per 5 boys, 1 Nob per 10 boys.
    Power Klaw is now cheaper; 15p
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)22:24 No.16890160

    >Can consolidate into assault again

    aka, fuck foot anything and push the game's meta even further into transporthammer.
    >> Anonymous 11/08/11(Tue)22:30 No.16890225

    Green tide is absolutely brutal at low point games.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/08/11(Tue)23:25 No.16890839
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    I also return
    How long would this distractoin last for, compared to say a kanwall, some grot cover or just a few extra mobs of boyz slogging it up with the rest of your army? I'm not saying the trukks will be useless, just that there's better things to spend the points on, by increasing redundancy.

    Yo, GrogTheTyrant, it's Blakkreaper here.

    At low points, do one thing, and do it well. You can usually afford a couple troops, plus some toys, or you can just put the extra points on more boyz. Usually orks do well at low points, because we have the advantages of cheap units, without the disadvantages of being hamstrung by the FoC.


    That's more then two steps. Also, you're making us a combat army, which isn't what we are, and trying to be one is why you're likely struggling. That said, an +1 boost on i across the board would be enough to really make us a threat in combat. I prefer somehting closer to the old rules though. "Waaagh! Charge: As furious charge, but roll 2d6. If this is equal or less then the noumber of wounds in the charging mob, they gain an extra +1I for the round."
    >> A few more things Blood Axe Smartboy 11/09/11(Wed)00:10 No.16891290
    Templates are fucking awesome.
    Normal ork chance to hit = 1/3
    Chance that a template hits perfectly = 1/3 + 1/12
    Then it might scatter somewhere good, etc. etc.
    With this in mind, feel free to use pie-plates to pop tanks and vehicles. Especially good are the "Box forts" of rhinos, or any squad near but not it it's transport.

    Zzaps, their real role
    Not anti-tank, despite what GW want you to think. They're anti-MC bugzappas. Also are good for shooting non-TH/SS termies, expencive marines of any kind and such. Generally only worth it combined with a SAG, since they can bodyguard him, their firepower complements eachothers, and the SAG can use their ammo runts. Zzaps are worth firing at AV10/11/12 if you get the chance, and there are no jucier targets, but you're really wanting to ruin a carnifexes day.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)00:12 No.16891310
    Ah, memories of BAs consolidating thru my entire guard line for a first turn victory.
    Those were the days.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/09/11(Wed)00:20 No.16891371
    It made combat very different. Although something should be done about the fact that it's better to break/finish killing your enemy in their assault phase, not your own (with the stopping them shooting at you, etc.) How to address this, I have NFI, but when charging two units, one with a token ork or two, just so that I'll beat the unit most my mob fights this turn, and beat their other unit in their turn (hopefully) is *safer* then concentrating on one unit something's up.
    >> Multiple Charges: More fightan' is probably better Blood Axe Smartboy 11/09/11(Wed)00:28 No.16891438
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    What an ork player wants to avoid is nice clean combats. You want a dirty brawl, where each of your units are attacking two of their units, and each of their units is in combat with two of yours. Why? You don't ever want your combats to be over in one turn - yet you can't loose your combats either. Answer is to TRASH! one unit, and have the other units wait for their turn. Sluggas big advantage is that in following rounds of combat they have 50% more attacks then shootas. They can win happily in the 2nd round of combat, ideally breaking the enemy just in time to move, shoot and charge again. This also means that the units you've 'engaged' and 'locked' in combat, can't run off, even though they're barely in combat. They're committed now,and that's good for us.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)04:56 No.16893358
    Oi boss! Wutz yor 'dvice fer dem trukkz and wagonz?
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/09/11(Wed)08:46 No.16894577
    Trukks and wagons complement eachother to a degree. They both are AV, though one's a transport tank, and the other is wheels, an engine and a tray that helps your boyz live fast and die everywhere. Use battlewagons to hide the more fragile trukks, and the trukks can in turn deal with any melta-units who want to mess with your Battlewagons. Emptied trukks are great for a billion things, including suicide ramming, parking in front of HW squads (more on that can be found on my buggy advice) and carrying boyz around.

    Trukkmobs can use their superior mobility to get behind the main line, while the battlewagon mob charges the front line. Advantage of this is that you can lock the units that would otherwise be running away in h2h.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)08:49 No.16894588
    >Orks call Industrial music "evvy metal"

    shit, son, what the fuck?
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/09/11(Wed)09:11 No.16894737
    Don't you know, sci-fi writes have no sense of scales.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)09:19 No.16894796
    that was so terrible. also only tangentially related.
    page probably written before industrial hit the mainstream.
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/09/11(Wed)09:20 No.16894799
    Meh on suicide ramming. The odds of actually inflicting damage results are near-nil.

    Roadblocking in general is valid. Tank-shocking infantry clusters as well. Should I be up against a *much* larger unit (like, say, a Guardblob or another Ork mob), I'll usually aim my Trukk so that instead of facing a unified formation, I'm facing an inverted U of fodder. Then I attack the segment of the unit with less models (less of the unit can react in)...

    Pic in a bit.
    >> Blood Axe Smartboy 11/09/11(Wed)09:30 No.16894887

    I find that suicide ramming works against the right targets, you just have to pick them. If you can get to AV10 on a tank worth more then the trukk, set the gear to WAAAAGH! and hit the red button.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)09:31 No.16894894
    >Getting tired from 2 days of standing and playing games

    >emotion stress??
    >seriously? Dude? Seriously?

    >> Over 9000 Hours in MS Paint MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/09/11(Wed)09:46 No.16894989
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    This is a derpish diagram that's mostly 'blackboard' in demonstration (meaning the concept itself should be independent of the "so why don't they shoot the Trukk first"). Remember a few rules about Tank Shock as follows:
    Unless an opponent attempts to Death or Glory you, (and remember, DoG can only be done by models that would be displaced), all displacement is done once the tank reaches its final position. Thus all models that the Trukk lands on top of would have to be moved the shortest distance possible from the center of the vehicle, that they obey the 1" rule. (If you played Warmachine, closest analogy would be displacing models after a Throw).

    What this means for you, the Ork player is if you want to move units to the left, tankshock to the right (so that the enemy models are left of your center of mass).

    The order of operations here is: Black Line is a tank shock. The red circle represents displacement. The Pink Line has our Battlewagon move up, hopefully less than 1" away from the Trukk, following up by a 2" disembark and assault.

    Done right, you can isolate a large portion of a huge unit from actually being able to strike back. Other applications of tankshock include pushing units out of buff-auras ("Sorry, but this unit isn't in range of the Sanguinary Priest anymore"), extending the range of slower elements (displace enemy models *closer* to your Kans. "Yes, that's 12" now." I did this in my 2nd NoVa game...Tankshocked the Sanguinor into range of my Kans and locked him out of the rest of the game while I proceeded to krump the rest of the Blood Angels), or bunch up enemies for mass Skorcha/Grotzooka/etc fire.

    The thing is that Trukks benefit from Rams for Tank Shock; for Ramming, not so much. That +2 armor for DoG does make a difference...
    >> Yup, really. MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/09/11(Wed)10:17 No.16895147
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    Yeah, I messed up...First big tournament, and there were a *lot* of mistakes I made for transporting my army, pacing myself, etc. The way NoVa works is that each day, there were four games. Depending on your performance on day 1, you were put into one of several seeds. Being Tournament Ace meant being in seed 1, being 3-1/performing well meant seed 2 (this was my seed), etc. The further down, the more it drifted from 'competitive' to 'casual' (and seed 1 would've meant "ohboyherewegoagainstDashofpepperagain"), and then I said "wow, I'm wasn't ready after all...next year then." Then I slept in after resigning and felt all the better for it.

    It was nightmarishly fun though. Lot of talented players/modelers...one of the armies everyone wanted to fight ("this one is relatively easy") was the pic-related for example.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)17:06 No.16898191
    Wow, this thread is still alive. A nitpicker's note about Zzap guns: Their average strength isn't 7. Because it's capped to 10, it actually averages to 6.888888889.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)19:38 No.16899744
    helpful thread, makes me want to game some more.
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 11/09/11(Wed)20:31 No.16900266
    Problem is this:
    The maximum strength you can actually attain with using a Trukk for ramming is Strength 6. (max of 18-19" move, armor 10 as the Ram bonus to armor is only for Death or Glory resolution, and the Trukk is not a tank). So...yeah. Trukks are secondary transports, and tankshockers; leave Ramming to the Battlewagons. Against heavy vehicles (like Land Raiders), you don't ram so much as drive *right* in front, and park to the side. The less distance attainable in a ramming attempt, the more likely you live (at least until the opponent's shooting phase, but there are *very* few ways for vehicles to move-after-attacks, or for attacks-before-movement to be initiated. Eldar have the former with Star Engines, Necrons the latter with the Command Barge+Warscythe special).
    >> Marquis de Fenetre 11/09/11(Wed)20:33 No.16900290
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    >Scorpion Green

    I used a scorpion green warpaint on my old Chaos Warband. Shit looked wicked.
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)21:33 No.16900859
    Boss, if I'z got Boyz in two big 'uv squads to mount in a Trukk, and I ain't got a ton of 'xtra Wagonz to use, 'wot's best for my Boss and his Nobboyz to get stuck in wiffout being cought in the open and Dakka'd before dey get to 'ave a go. I'z been told a Trukk just for Nobz+Boss iz nots a gud 'ider, and I'z not evaa had a ting fer bikes, wot should I do 'wit my Nobz?
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)22:38 No.16901429
    Hmm, that is quite a pickle you've got there. I take it you're just in a situation where you've got like one BW and like 1 Trukk?

    May I ask what's in your Battlewagon that you can't put the Nobz in there, if that's the case?
    >> Anonymous 11/09/11(Wed)22:41 No.16901459
    Aye, dat's mah situation, I pat mah Big Mek in the 'Wagon along wit bout 19 'Ard Boys, so I 'ave a BW mobile KFF. ta give sum cover to da dreds, kans, Wartrakks, and other meks.
    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)01:35 No.16903073
    I would just experiment with what you have, between using that one Trukk, or just footslogging your Nobz and Boss up (hide them behind shit and use cover, of course.) and see what works best for your army. knowing when to WAAAGH could make or break the game.

    I don't really perscribe to the people who say Trukks can only be used in numbers. I've seen solitary Trukks pull off some bullshit before. like I said, just experiment and find what works best.
    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)01:46 No.16903135
    I'll throw in a quick two teef as well.

    Since your BW has a KFF inside, keeping your Trukk within 6" of your BW might give it some added survivability. (that obscured cover save can wind up being a bigger deal than one might think at first.) and when you think you can get the Nobz in there, don't be afraid to make a bold move with the Trukk if you think you can get the Nobz stuck in.
    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)02:10 No.16903313
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    Hey Guys, how is this for a 500 point ork list also can you think of any way for me to bring my list to 500 points exactly?
    Bigmekk, kff, cybork 95
    Heavy Support
    3 kans, all grotzookas 135
    17 boys, 1 up to a nob with pk 137
    16 boys, 1 up to a nob with pk 131
    498 pts
    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)02:30 No.16903465
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    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)02:53 No.16903625
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    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)03:04 No.16903667

    My god man that conversion is putting me in tears
    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)03:13 No.16903721
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    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)03:19 No.16903741
    How do I deal with Necrons?
    And Space Wolfs?
    And Imperial Guard
    all from the same player whose got insane rolls, and is at least a fairly competent tactician, but really knows how to bang out a good army.
    Because this shit is demoralizing.
    And to be fair, he played Necrons and IG since before their new Codexes.
    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)03:24 No.16903765
    It transforms? My brain is full of fuck!
    >> Anonymous 11/10/11(Thu)03:46 No.16903844
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